ROLLUP: Satoshi Exposed | Unichain | FBI Token | Permissionless III | Hoffman vs. Warwick

This Weekly Rollup was recorded IRL at Permissionless III. We discuss HBO revealing the identity of Bitcoin’s creator, Uniswap’s Unichain announcement, the new FBI token and David Hoffman vs. Kain Warwick upcoming fight. ------ 🎮 B3 | THE FUTURE OF ONCHAIN GAMING https://bankless.cc/b3 ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2 ⁠ 🦄UNISWAP | BROWSER EXTENSION https://bankless.cc/uniswap ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM ⁠https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle 🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT https://bankless.cc/toku ⚡️ CARTESI | LINUX-POWERED ROLLUPS https://bankless.cc/CartesiGovernance ------ ✨ Mint the episode on Zora ✨ https://zora.co/collect/zora:0x0c294913a7596b427add7dcbd6d7bbfc7338d53f/77?referrer=0x077Fe9e96Aa9b20Bd36F1C6290f54F8717C5674E ------ TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 3:04 Markets 6:14 US Economy https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/04/september-2024-us-jobs-report.html https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/let-us-pause-to-appreciate-the-remarkable 13:28 Uniswap Announces Unichain https://x.com/Uniswap/status/1844363396382408774 https://x.com/TaikiMaeda2/status/1844363706798571828 https://x.com/0xCygaar/status/1844377718479257864 https://x.com/haydenzadams/status/1844363698485198899 https://x.com/delitzer/status/1844364429389070699 https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1575772104678510592 https://x.com/danrobinson/status/1844407479528194262 https://x.com/haydenzadams/status/1844411400523067599 https://x.com/Fwiz/status/1844375503601594594 https://x.com/gluk64/status/1844388796290183302 https://youtu.be/0g8Pc-jytkc?si=ibjntDmkIXN0uDBR 30:55 HBO Reveals Satoshi Identity? https://x.com/crypto_div/status/1843838385913258387 https://x.com/MarcHochstein/status/1843768871318372562 https://x.com/peterktodd/status/1843957196830441766 https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-hbo-doc-identify-as-satoshi https://x.com/ki_young_ju/status/1843872372627255541 https://x.com/HalieyWelchX/status/1844038238408990871 37:23 FBI Coin https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-18-people-companies-cryptocurrency-fraud-2024-10-09/ https://x.com/esatoshiclub/status/1844095224907432441 https://x.com/tier10k/status/1844106925149126887 https://x.com/loomdart/status/1844108582511575289 https://polymarket.com/event/ansem-criminal-charges-in-2024?tid=1728573367331 https://x.com/zachxbt/status/1843940648430493906 46:02 Crypto.com SEC Wells Notice https://crypto.com/company-news/complaint https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/sec-commissioner-confesses-crypto-approach-has-fueled-disaster-whole-industry?src=wgna https://x.com/lex_node/status/1843651871522861187 https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-money 50:10 New EIP-7781 https://x.com/0xcygaar/status/1842985189124997362?s=46&t=2ZINVXJQKx6xO_6Wiiu_2g https://x.com/0xcygaar/status/1842985189124997362?s=46&t=2ZINVXJQKx6xO_6Wiiu_2g https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/pull/8931#issuecomment-2395026393 https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1841756178692358587 53:32 IMF vs Bitcoin https://x.com/samcallah/status/1842193389569143027 55:22 World Liberty Financial New Details https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/trumps-world-liberty-financial-proposes-aave-deployment-on-ethereum https://www.theblock.co/post/320430/trump-world-financial-liberty-raise 58:47 Permissionless III https://x.com/Ethereum_Women/status/1844051472335671694 https://x.com/Jesseeckel/status/1844196686484341067 https://x.com/benlakoff/status/1844394966925324694 1:02:57 David Hoffman vs Kain Warwick https://polymarket.com/event/hoffman-vs-warwick?tid=1728578327494 https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/1844388312771068402 1:05:55 Moment of Zen ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures ⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Nation, happy 2nd week of October. David and I are live in Salt Lake City at Permissionless.

• 0:09David Hoffman?

  The 3rd Permissionless.

• 0:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  The 3rd Permissionless Conference. And we got a weekly rollup to bring to you live.

• 0:15David Hoffman?

  Even though we're at a conference, the weekly rollup must go on.

• 0:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  David's at a separate desk and he was like, "I feel so far away from you." I'm like, "Dude, we're usually like hundreds of miles away from each other when we're recording this." But this has been a big week for crypto. We gotta start with talking about the Uniswap reveal. So the Unichain is coming to crypto. A new chain for Uniswap and DeFi. What does it do? Is it good for the uni-token? Those are some of the questions we'll talk about.

• 0:41David Hoffman?

  I think also, what does it mean for the Ethereum rollup-centric roadmap? I don't think it's gonna change the roadmap at all, but how do people feel about the rollup-centric roadmap now that I think Ethereum's biggest app is now a chain? I think big implications. I think people are gonna be chewing on this one for a while, including myself. Also, did HBO just figure out who Satoshi is? People coming into Bitcoin for the first time and deciding, and they're telling us exactly who Satoshi is. They found him, not us.

• 1:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm sure they figured it out.

• 1:06David Hoffman?

  And then also, is Ethereum going to cut down on block times? Are we gonna make the L1 great again? There is a brand-new EIP endorsed, thumbed up by Justin Drake as well as others. We're gonna talk about what all of that means for Ethereum.

• 1:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, do you know the FBI launched a token?

• 1:22David Hoffman?

  Is it the FBI token?

• 1:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Uh, it's not so fun, okay?

• 1:26David Hoffman?

  Wait, do I wanna buy this or not buy this?

• 1:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  You don't wanna buy it, unless you wanna go to jail. Also, Gary Gensler sent another nassigram to a crypto company. Which company is it gonna be?

• 1:36David Hoffman?

  What week is it? It's every week.

• 1:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's happened at least 6 times this year. But they are fighting back, which is the good news. Also, let's go over a few metrics on the US economy. It's kinda feeling good out there, and I wanna share with you. So, we'll get to that and more. But before we begin, I think we have a message from our friends and sponsors over at B3. This is like the core team behind Base, at least members of the former core team of Base. And they're getting into, what is this, on-chain gaming?

• 2:03David Hoffman?

  Yeah, did you ever play like old flash games like MiniClip Arcade?

• 2:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  I played like old flash games. You're talking like in browser flash?

• 2:11David Hoffman?

  In browser flash games.

• 2:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:13David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so that is what that is what B3 is. A layer three on top of base, partnered with notable gaming brands such as Parallel, Mighty Bear Games, and Nifty Island. So if you want to fun, play some fun addicting games, B3 is the place. Bankless.cc/B3. Even though it is a base layer three, it is also chain agnostic. So games can come from any chain to be deployed on basement.fun, that is their website, and create their own game-specific rollup. So not only is Uniswap getting its own app chain, but any single flash game that's ever existed can also get its own flash.

• 2:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's like a layer three.

• 2:49David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 2:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Game chain.

• 2:50David Hoffman?

  Game-specific rollups.

• 2:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's pretty cool. Yeah.

• 2:52David Hoffman?

  You can earn XP, BP game tokens as well, so you can play games and earn tokens.

• 2:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Of course you can, because this is crypto, right?

• 3:00David Hoffman?

  That was the crypto I was promised.

• 3:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, maybe it's here, David. It's not looking like the crypto I was promised. At least, it's not looking like the October I was promised in the markets today. So let's talk about the Bitcoin price, and I need these prices for you. You've been busy at the conference, so hopefully they're right, but what are the pricing?

• 3:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah, when Ryan Tatum puts into the prices, we all should, everyone check out your own prices just in case.

• 3:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, plus or minus 10% here.

• 3:24David Hoffman?

  10%. Nonetheless, Bitcoin started the week $60,300, down 1.5%. Not terrible, but below the $60,000 mark right now at the time of recording, $59,545. Ether price, starting the week, $2,330, up a percent and a half. 2,366 is where we are currently, but the real alpha is actually in the stock market.

• 3:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:49David Hoffman?

  Stocks are, once again, at all-time highs. I own fewer stocks, Ryan, than I own crypto, so my portfolio is not at all-time highs.

• 3:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Should we have pivoted to stocks a year ago, David?

• 4:00David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right when people were saying pivot to AI, yeah.

• 4:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, pivot to stocks. S&P, all-time highs. NASDAQ, like, pretty much all-time highs. So this recession that everyone is talking about hasn't hasn't come. You remember the yen trade? Scare that happened.

• 4:14David Hoffman?

  That was, that was for gone. That's a blip in the charts.

• 4:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  When was that? Was that late?

• 4:18David Hoffman?

  I was like.

• 4:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Early October?

• 4:19David Hoffman?

  I don't even remember.

• 4:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Neither does the market. That's the good news. Should we check on, uh, in on the ETF? So the Ethereum ETF flows. David, there were a number of days that were like straight zero across the board.

• 4:30David Hoffman?

  Zeros. Yeah. Call it a wash for the past, like, I don't know. And since October 3rd, like no meaningful inflows or outflows. Uh, same with Bitcoin. We had a very big inflow days of $230 million on October 7th, but a couple of days of 20 and 40 million dollar outflows. Uh, nothing terribly exciting happening in the ETF lands. Although I will say we have known this for a while, but here at the permissionless conference, we had notable ETF experts, including some Mark Cohen from BlackRock, kind of confirming our ideas about who is really buying these ETFs.

• 5:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Who is it?

• 5:02David Hoffman?

  It's us.

• 5:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's us?

• 5:03David Hoffman?

  It's us.

• 5:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's you and I?

• 5:04David Hoffman?

  It's, uh, people, it's crypto people taking Bitcoin Ether off chain and putting it into BlackRock, into Bitwise, into Fidelity.

• 5:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 5:12David Hoffman?

  Uh, and you know, that's, I think, kind of was against expectations. People like, oh, once we open up the ETFs, the boomers are going to come. It's going to inflow all this retail. Turns out it's like tax advantage accounts. Uh, you can actually get, uh, yield on your Bitcoin ETFs. Uh, in, you can do security lendings with your Bitcoin ETFs. And people I think are scarred from Celsius. And so that has actually attracted, you know, retail crypto native capital. But it's actually crypto native capital here, which, you know, there's one take, which is, well, that's bearish because we were hoping it was outside capital.

• 5:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 5:43David Hoffman?

  But my take, which is bullish, is that, well, the outside capital hasn't even come yet.

• 5:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, we're still early.

• 5:48David Hoffman?

  It's still just us. It is the years of the best ETFs, the top two ETFs of all time, and it was just us.

• 5:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  This entire time and we've still been early. That's great. Do you want to, uh, talk about the ETH ratio or skip that on the week, David?

• 6:00David Hoffman?

  Uh, 0.0397. Trying to get it back above 0.04, but other than that, still, still in sad zone. Uh, total crypto market cap, where are we at on the week? $2.21 trillion coming in, uh, still kind of low. I want to, I want to see 2.5. I want to see 2.5.

• 6:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Um, are you looking at these jobs numbers? Let's, let's switch to TradFi markets for a second.

• 6:18David Hoffman?

  I was not looking at these job numbers.

• 6:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. The jobs numbers have been pretty good, apparently. So we've got a, um, the, the US added far more jobs than expected in September. So analysts, I guess, were expecting a forecast of about 150,000 net new jobs. And we got 254,000 instead. So nice to see that.

• 6:38David Hoffman?

  Is that why stocks are at all time highs?

• 6:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think so. It's part of it.

• 6:41David Hoffman?

  When we have more jobs, jobs are going up, people is it? Yeah, people are getting more jobs. And that is indicating a lack of recession. And now that we are having cutting interest rates and people are getting more jobs. That is indication that the recession is just not likely, less and less likely, which is why the stock market is going up. Is that? Is that the analysis?

• 7:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, the market's looking pretty good.

• 7:04David Hoffman?

  Pretty good.

• 7:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  In general, right? So inflation looks like that has come down. Actually, we go to this. Did you catch this Noah, Noah Smith blog post here?

• 7:13David Hoffman?

  I did not.

• 7:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  The title is, let's pause to appreciate the remarkable US economy. And he goes over a few metrics. I thought this was pretty valuable. So number one, he talks about the job market.

• 7:23David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 7:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  He's not looking at unemployment in this metric. He's looking at the employment population ratio. And apparently this rate is holding at 80.9%, so above 80%, which is higher than before the pandemic and is in fact the second highest rate in US history. Okay. And this is even a better indicator than unemployment for who wants a job. So pretty much everyone in the US right now who wants a job has a job. So that's one metric. We've got some other metrics here he goes through. Of course, inflation, we've been talking a lot about that on Bankless. This is basically back to normal, right? So we have CPI that is sort of back in the two to 3% range, which feels pretty good from that perspective.

• 8:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  So we've got inflation, we've got jobs going well, wages and productivity are both up. So this is a chart of labor productivity output for all workers in the US. And if you're looking at this, you could see, I mean, we're kind of like close, close to a fairly good range and, you know, pre-COVID type ranges from productivity perspective. And wealth, I mean, this is, you know, some people look at wealth and they see inequality, and that's also true. But like wealth is cruising towards all time highs as well. Housing prices, a lot of good things in the US economy at this point, including this. America is beating the world at this point. So this is real GDP growth in the G7 countries.

• 8:50David Hoffman?

  America is growing faster than any other country.

• 8:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 8:53David Hoffman?

  And has been for like since Covid.

• 8:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  And like fairly significant, like significantly faster as well. I mean, it's just not, not a small thing.

• 9:01David Hoffman?

  The second place is Canada. Shout out America's hat.

• 9:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, shout out Canada, uh, doing okay as well. Anyway, the entire TLDR of this post is the US economy is doing pretty well. Maybe we should pause and appreciate it. He does point to some storm clouds, which is deficit. Look at this last chart, David. This is federal surplus or deficit as a percentage of DDP. And we are like, looking like the 1940s, you know, wartime sort of deficits. So the question is, hey, how much are the deficits actually contributing to all of these good times?

• 9:32David Hoffman?

  Right, so the economy is going super well, but the government is spending a lot. Those are correlated.

• 9:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  You'd also think that would be good for crypto. Not yet, though. We just have to wait for it. Maybe not October. We'll see. We still got a long month, David.

• 9:47David Hoffman?

  There's like a lot of, I feel like it, the, it's a safe-ish time to be in the markets. The markets feel like a safe place to be right now.

• 9:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  It doesn't feel frothy.

• 9:55David Hoffman?

  Doesn't feel frothy. The recession is feels to like a distant thing at this present moment. The only thing that's left for crypto is for people to care about crypto again.

• 10:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 10:03David Hoffman?

  Which is still a hard problem.

• 10:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we'll talk about the permissionless conference, but that's been the vibe of the conference that we're attending as well. It's like not too hot, not too cold. It's like just right. This, we're in the Goldilocks zone of crypto, and I think that's a good place to accumulate. Uh, but we always say that, don't we?

• 10:19David Hoffman?

  That's what we say. Coming up next, the uni-chain finally here. How will it change DeFi? Now that the uni swap, the biggest app on the Ethereum layer one is going to its own layer two inside of the optimism superchain. HBO releases their Bitcoin documentary, revealing who Satoshi is. They figured it out. No one in the Bitcoin space figured it out. HBO figured it out. Wow. And also Ethereum got a proposal for lowering block times that, uh, might not compromise staking whatsoever. So we're going to talk about all of this and more, but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Kraken, our preferred crypto exchange in 2024. If you do not have an account with Kraken, consider clicking the links in the show notes, getting started with Kraken today. If you want a crypto trading experience back By world-class security and award-winning support teams, then head over to Kraken,

• 11:04David Hoffman?

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• 11:49David Hoffman?

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• 12:34David Hoffman?

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• 13:19David Hoffman?

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• 13:28David Hoffman?

  Some people claimed it was inevitable, others said it would never happen. But nonetheless, this week Uniswap announced the UniChain, a brand-new Layer 2 designed to prioritize the needs of DeFi users and protocols. It is a Layer 2 on the OP stack inside of the Optimism Superchain, developed in collaboration with Flashbots and Optimism, of course.

• 13:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Flashbots, huh?

• 13:49David Hoffman?

  Flashbots, yeah. I mean, it makes sense. We'll get into the Flashbots element in a second. But some key benefits here: very fast block times.

• 13:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes.

• 13:56David Hoffman?

  200 to 250 millisecond sub-block times is what they're targeting. The testnet is currently clucking in at...

• 14:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's real fast, right?

• 14:03David Hoffman?

  1-second block times, that's very fast. Arbitrum has 250-millisecond block times. Solana has 400-millisecond block times. Uniswap is going for 200 to 250-millisecond block times, which, if it comes faster than Arbitrum can speed up its chain, would make it the fastest chain in crypto period. That's pretty cool. And this, of course, actually, Tim Ruffgarden, who is the crypto economics expert out of Colombia, I believe...

• 14:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Real smart guy.

• 14:29David Hoffman?

  Real smart guy. I'm dropping a Tim Ruffgarden take. Actually measured that when you lower block times, you strictly lower aggregate MEV, which is important globally, but it's especially important for the liquidity locus of crypto at large. So when Uniswap has its own chain with very fast block times, we are materially reducing the amount of MEV that is getting extracted from the users and from the protocol, which is pretty cool. They've also got seamless multi-chain swapping, because they're going to be a part of the Superchain, and the Superchain is going to come in with their interoperability plan soon. Swapping on the Uniswap will be very seamless inside of the Superchain. And then I think how this is going to work is they're going to fix perfect interoperability inside of the Superchain.

• 15:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes.

• 15:10David Hoffman?

  And then they're going to export those lessons to the rest of the...

• 15:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  And let's remind people what the Superchain is. This is the OP set of chains, right? So we've got a number of chains here: Base.

• 15:20David Hoffman?

  Base is a part of the Superchain.

• 15:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  OP?

• 15:21David Hoffman?

  OP mainnet. Mode Network. Zora is part of the Superchain. A bunch of others, which I might not be able to pull off the top of my head right now.

• 15:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  So all of that will feel like one chain.

• 15:32David Hoffman?

  One chain.

• 15:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  One seamless chain. You won't even know. It'll be seamless interoperability. The wallet experience will be all the same across all of these chains.

• 15:39David Hoffman?

  I'd actually just... We are coming right off of the panel I was just at with Alex Klukowski from ZKSync, and he thinks that he can ship perfect interoperability for the ZKSync Elastic Chain sooner than Optimism can ship.

• 15:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Make them fight!

• 15:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Which I think is just great.

• 15:58David Hoffman?

  Okay, so a big question.

• 15:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep.

• 16:00David Hoffman?

  I own some uni tokens. What does this do for my bags?

• 16:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I mean, that's a very good question. You want to look at the charts and answer that question first?

• 16:07David Hoffman?

  Well, strictly, they are, my bags are up 14.5%.

• 16:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Is that on the day?

• 16:11David Hoffman?

  That is on the day, that's in 24 hours.

• 16:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow, that's great.

• 16:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wait, so is this the market actually pricing like a fundamental? Is that what just happened here?

• 16:19David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's right. Somehow. This news actually was not priced in. And now it's up $8.26.

• 16:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 16:29David Hoffman?

  But also, that's because the uni chain will have uni token staking. And everyone likes to stake their tokens. And what do you get for staking your tokens? This is what we asked Hayden on our podcast with him. So if you want to learn more about the uni chain, go to that podcast. It's in your podcast feed. You stake the tokens for money. You stake the tokens, you get money. And so.

• 16:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  But you have to do some work.

• 16:50David Hoffman?

  You have to do some work.

• 16:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  What's the work?

• 16:52David Hoffman?

  I don't know, do you know?

• 16:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. You have to, uh, sequencer validation, basically.

• 16:57David Hoffman?

  Oh, you're a sequencer.

• 16:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, you get to be a sequencer. So it's like a work token for the uni chain network. Remember those work tokens?

• 17:04David Hoffman?

  It's always been part of the plan.

• 17:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's always been the plan. And what about the gas token of the uni chain? What do you think that'll be?

• 17:12David Hoffman?

  I have a guess.

• 17:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  What?

• 17:14David Hoffman?

  It's not the uni token.

• 17:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 17:16David Hoffman?

  It's ETH.

• 17:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  I hope it is.

• 17:17David Hoffman?

  Because ETH is money.

• 17:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  We didn't ask that question, actually.

• 17:19David Hoffman?

  I think we just assumed.

• 17:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Better be ETH.

• 17:22David Hoffman?

  It better be. What else is it gonna be? It's not gonna be USDC. ETH is a dominant trading pair across Uniswap. It's going to be ETH.

• 17:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a good tweet I enjoyed from Cygar. He said, "Some really cool innovations in Uniswap's L2. Uni staking to power sequencer validation, which we just talked about. Proposer-builder separation powered by TEE block builders." I want to get you to explain that. "Also, pre-comps from builders, leading to lower latencies, and protection from transaction reverts." Some of these seem very Flashbots-inspired, very, you know, MEV reductionist, right? But what is this collection? The proposer-builder separation, the pre-comps, the protection from transaction reverts? What is that and why is that important?

• 18:07David Hoffman?

  Yeah, this is the Flashbot's influence here. TEE is something that Flashbot has been meaningfully leaning into for a while now. We did an episode with Shay, I did an episode with Shay, it's on the Bankless Premium feed, all about TEEs and the MEV supply chain.

• 18:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Trusted execution environments.

• 18:23David Hoffman?

  Trusted execution environments, yeah. It's kind of like, I call it like a secure enclave for block building or other things in the MEV supply chain, sealing bids, protecting market orders, things like this. It's a little bit over my pay grade to fully flesh out on the weekly rollup, but Hayden actually explained this very well on the episode as well. And so, this is, it's both Uniswap pioneering the app chain thesis into the Ethereum rollup centric roadmap, as well as whatever the frontier that Flashbot is developing with MEV supply chains and TEE as well.

• 18:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is Hayden Adams saying, "Excited to announce the Unichain, this is a labor of love based on six years of designing and building in the DeFi space. We think what we're building will be the best home for DeFi." That's very interesting. So in our conversation-

• 19:10David Hoffman?

  I've heard the "home for DeFi" is a line for a handful of layer 2s.

• 19:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  A lot of the L2s want to be the home for DeFi. I want to get your take on it.

• 19:17David Hoffman?

  I also would like to be the home for DeFi.

• 19:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, like, the strongest, I think, take from Hayden in that episode that we did was basically, hey, Uniswap is doing the full stack, right? So, we've got the app, we're doing the wallet stuff-

• 19:29David Hoffman?

  Got the front end.

• 19:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  We've got like the protocol, we're doing kind of the decentralized exchange, and now, like, a chain is kind of the full stack completion of that. When you look across the full stack, you can build a, like, comprehensive user experience that is high quality, second to none. So that was his case for why Unichain. And also, I think they want to be the home of liquidity for all of decentralized finance. But to your point, David, so does everybody else. A lot of other chains want to as well. How do you think this will emerge? Do you think this will be competitive with Base? Do you think this will create kind of like a superchain mafia, you know, like, competing against other economic zones? How do you think this all shakes out?

• 20:08David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to watch this. I think the biggest deployment of Uniswap after the Ethereum Layer 1 is, I think, Arbitrum's deployment of Uniswap, followed by Base's, and now there's gonna be a chain. And there's also other deployments of Uniswap. There's Uniswap on ZK Sync, there's Uniswap, there's like 20 deployments-

• 20:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  So Ethereum?

• 20:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right. And so, I think the Uniswap deployments inside of the superchain are going to kind of seed liquidity to the Unichain first. Base probably incentive wise is begrudgingly going to cede it, but like they also are a part of like kind of the ethos of the superchain. So superchain liquidity going to go to the chain. Non-superchain liquidity going to try to be retained. Like Arbitrum is going to try and retain its Uniswap liquidity as hard as possible. And then I think the amount of liquidity onside the Ethereum Layer 1 Uniswap implementation of Uniswap is going to go to the Uniswap chain as a function of how good it is to do seamless interoperable cross-chain swaps.

• 21:08David Hoffman?

  If you have to like swap into, bridge into the uni-chain to then swap to bridge out, that's a lot of friction, people aren't going to do that. And if that's the case, then people are going to stay on the Ethereum Layer 1. And so I think the uni-chain to Uniswap implementation on the Ethereum Layer 1, where that liquidity lies, will kind of be an index of how healthy the Ethereum roll-up centric roadmap is.

• 21:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is all MIT licensed, so completely open source. So anyone can sort of fork it. I think there's the objection out there. Okay, so like you guys are launching another, yet another Ethereum chain, right? That's going to fragment things further. And I think we're in the stage in Ethereum where we've fragmented a lot. And now we're going to re-converge. So it's like this pendulum swinging from divergence back to convergence. And now we're moving back into the convergence era. Because I think what's going to happen, David, is we're going to have these superchain economic zones, whether it's kind of the Arbitrum stack or the ZK stack or Polygon or the OP stack. They're going to be seamless and completely interoperable.

• 22:09David Hoffman?

  Inside of themselves.

• 22:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Inside of themselves. So you'll have like four or five big economic zones. And then between these economic zones, we'll have intent standards that will pretty much provide abstracted, it'll feel like composability to an end user. It won't be complete atomic synchronous composability, as Justin Drake says, across these different economic zones. But it'll feel pretty close. And that's how Ethereum will all converge together. And I for one, I'm pretty excited that there's more competition in this space. Even against Base, I'm so excited about Base and everything that they've done. In fact, Jesse congratulated Hayden in the The team for for ruling this out, but it's good to see some competition in the mix because we don't want any of the L2s to become absolute dominant.

• 22:54David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 22:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, L2s and kind of like control everything across all of the ecosystems.

• 22:59David Hoffman?

  Yeah, you brought up Intents. Intents are both going to help across the frameworks like Arbitrum and the Superchain will be gapped by Intents. But also internally to the Superchain, Intents will also fill the gaps between chains. So even inside of these economic zones, Intents still kind of fill the gap, fill the gap here. I know Hart from Across has actually been a part of this whole uni-chain effort. Because how are you going to swap on uni-chain without swapping your assets over to the chain? It's going to be through Intents. I think Across is playing a large role here. And even again, I was just on the panel with Alex from ZK Sync and ZK Chains actually have stronger cross-chain composability tech

• 23:44David Hoffman?

  than the OP stacks do. That's just what ZK stacks do. And even ZK stacks will still need Intents, at least in the short term, to still fill the gaps between their chains. And so I think this is how this is going to go. All of these frameworks are going to achieve perfectly perceived interoperability amongst themselves. We're going to learn lessons about how they did that for their own internal systems. We're going to be able to export those lessons to Across the frameworks after that.

• 24:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Someone who came on the Bankless Podcast two years ago, also wrote an article predicted this, was Dan Alitzer. We should just like.

• 24:15David Hoffman?

  Shout out Dan. For once again, nailed it.

• 24:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, this is his tweet.

• 24:20David Hoffman?

  He doesn't take many at bats, but when he does, he hits them out of the park.

• 24:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 24:25David Hoffman?

  He's like five for five.

• 24:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, exactly like two years ago, September 29th, 2022, he said, he wrote, he wrote a blog post called The Inevitability of the Uni-Chain. And I think his, his take was like, apps want to receive some portion of the value that they create through MEV. They don't want to give that all to validators and so they'll all launch their own chains. Anyway, very, very prescient post. Did you notice this, David? At the time, Vitalik replied back in 2022 to this tweet and he said. Had a hard time believing Dan's argument. He didn't think necessarily that Uniswap would have its own app chain. He said, because the main value proposition of Uniswap is you can go and trade, done in 30 seconds. A Uniswap chain, or even a rollup, makes no sense in that context.

• 25:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Rather, a copy of Uniswap, and every rollup does. Where do you think he was coming from back then? And what do you think he would say now?

• 25:16David Hoffman?

  I think this take came inside of the era of the pre-economic zone, Layer 2s.

• 25:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 25:23David Hoffman?

  So in 2022, it was optimism, and Arbitrum, and Polygon. And that was it. There was no superchain, there was no elastic chain. There was no, the idea of economic zones with interoperability between chains was not an idea yet. And so in that world, that's, we haven't even had the conversation of Ethereum as being fragmented yet. People were just having fun in Layer 2 land. And so I think that was a 2022 date take. And now that we have these economic zones with, you know, intense, or now I think, this was also pre-intense. So there's just like a lot of tech that just wasn't there yet. It is interesting that Dan cited one of the reasons why Unichain was inevitable was because of MEV.

• 26:07David Hoffman?

  Uniswap was one, and it still is, one of the largest burners of ETH, which is coming out of swappers and LPs.

• 26:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 26:14David Hoffman?

  Like, it's Uniswap, the app, leaking MEV. And so why make an app chain? Why make the Unichain? Well, it's because they want to retain MEV. And I think that's right, but also Hayden and Dan Robinson from Paradigm kind of made an update to that take. Dan Robinson says, "The Unichain is not about capturing MEV for their sequencer. It's about building a platform with consistent rules that lets apps and users, not sequencers, control their MEV." And so what the Unichain, I think, is going to do is it's going, it is going to recapture the MEV, just like Dan Leiser said, but not to like pump it into the uni-token, but rather to give it back to LPs and give it back to users, and just have a really efficient exchange.

• 26:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, ultimately, I guess, you know, the hope is all of these MEV fees get back to users in the end. Apps and then users in the end. One question for you, David. What do you think about Ethereum Layer 2? There's been an ongoing conversation that we've been involved in, which is like the difference between the DeFi belongs on the layer one versus DeFi belongs on layer twos. And the truth is, different types of DeFi belong on layer one versus versus layer two, and you can kind of do both. But this would seem like Uniswap is the largest DeFi protocol on Ethereum, the layer one, the most successful. You think this is bad for the Ethereum mainnet? Of course, all of this, the L2s are built on top of Ethereum at the end of the day.

• 27:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  But does this kind of, you know, take away some of the value proposition of ETH the asset?

• 27:44David Hoffman?

  I don't think so at all. And I think this whole like layer one, layer two debate is getting heavily over indexed on. Yet nonetheless, if you are at Permissionless, this is coming out after my talk, but I'm in a debate tomorrow with Kyle Simoni and Max Resnick. But on my team is Jill Gunter from Espresso.

• 28:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 28:01David Hoffman?

  So it's David Hoffen and Jill versus Kyle and Max about whether or not layer twos are extensions of Ethereum. In the future, there will not be, it's a layer two, it's a layer three, or what are we doing with the layer one? It's just going to be Ethereum. And the way that that take is incorrect, I think, is in the world where there's like a very small minority of very dominant layer twos. I don't like that future. I do like the future where there is a wide pluralist mesh network of app chains like the uni chain, along with generalized layer twos, but with other features as well, base rollups, stronger layer one execution. We can actually really start to blur the line between what is the layer one and the layer two.

• 28:42David Hoffman?

  Max Resnick wants to quote unquote, make Ethereum great again by increasing the execution capacity of the Ethereum layer one in order to bring DeFi back to the layer one. I agree with the direction. We should increase execution of the layer one. But that's because it makes layer two execution better. And it also makes interoperability between layer twos also better. I want fast block times at the layer one, not to bring back DeFi to the layer one. But because it allows for a mesh network of DeFi apps to exist across the layer two. And there will be strong execution fees at the layer one because we have the uni chain and the AVE chain and the Maker, now Sky chain, and all these other chains. And all of those are going to be executed on by the layer one.

• 29:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  And ETH being money across all of these economic zones.

• 29:27David Hoffman?

  When all the apps are capturing all the value, there's nothing left other than money.

• 29:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  So you're fighting with Kyle Simoni, too, not just Kane Warwick, huh?

• 29:34David Hoffman?

  Your boys in a fighting mood.

• 29:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Man, you are. You are just fighting everybody this week.

• 29:37David Hoffman?

  And speaking of, I have to actually go square off against Kane.

• 29:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  What is squaring off?

• 29:43David Hoffman?

  They're gonna take the photo of me and Kane, like, holding our fists up at each other.

• 29:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes. Would you get, like, close, like, nose to nose?

• 29:49David Hoffman?

  Oh, yeah, uh-huh.

• 29:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, that's pretty great.

• 29:52David Hoffman?

  If I had more time, I would have pulled some prank on him, like, bought him flowers. Like, this is something that fighters do.

• 29:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I know. You're a fighter now, so you gotta do these things.

• 30:00David Hoffman?

  I gotta go square off with Kane. I'll be right back, and we're gonna resume the weekly roll-up. But for you, listener, it's just gonna start right now.

• 30:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, Dave, that was crazy, man. I just watched you in a face-off with Kane Warwick. That took about an hour, so we're back.

• 30:13David Hoffman?

  Took a little longer than expected, yeah.

• 30:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was hype, man. There was promo, there was, like, they asked you questions. You said Kane was like a tree, pretty easy to knock down.

• 30:22David Hoffman?

  Tall guy, but skinny guy, you know? Won't take too many swings.

• 30:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, I still can't believe you're doing this. It's like, guys, it's like David up there onstage with a whole bunch of, like, MMA-looking fighters. It's just so... It's crazy to think we've gotten this far.

• 30:40David Hoffman?

  Yeah, in my crypto journey, I didn't necessarily have fighting another founder on my bingo card.

• 30:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is what's happening, though.

• 30:48David Hoffman?

  Nick Carter is the reason why I'm here, and he's nowhere to be found. Somehow, he's elsewhere.

• 30:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ah, anyway, we'll talk about more of that at the end of the show. Let's get to the HBO documentary, because this was another big reveal. This was...

• 31:02David Hoffman?

  Big news of the week is we discovered who Satoshi is.

• 31:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, the revelation of Satoshi, and this was hyped up. So HBO premiered a documentary called Money Electric: The Bitcoin Mystery. It was based on this marketing claim that they had figured out who Satoshi Nakamoto was, the founder of Bitcoin. So everyone was curious going in as to who they would point to as the founder.

• 31:24David Hoffman?

  And maybe some setup here. If you don't know, there have been people who have done thousands and thousands of hours of work going through Satoshi emails, Bitcoin talk forums, cross-referencing time of day...

• 31:41David Hoffman?

  Of posts with like geolocation.

• 31:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  The wording, the language, the writing style.

• 31:46David Hoffman?

  Writing style, just like the deepest kind of analytics. People have tried to figure out Satoshi. This is not the first time that anyone has ever tried to figure out Satoshi. To this day, we have a list of people which Satoshi could be. But also if Satoshi wasn't anyone on the like list of likely candidates, I don't think that would also surprise anyone.

• 32:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you want to see the list, David? So this is a polymarket and there was a bid for who will the HBO documentary identify as Satoshi, right? So here's HBO, of course, after all the work that everyone has put in saying, hey, we figured it out. Everyone else, we figured it out. And look at all of these names. So Gavin Wood, Gavin Wood, that's interesting. Nick Zabo, Craig Wright, Hal Finney, Dorian Nakamoto, Wei Dai, Adam Back, Gavin Andriev. These are some of the Elon Musk down here.

• 32:38David Hoffman?

  Jed McHale, yeah.

• 32:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, these are some of the usual suspects I typically see.

• 32:42David Hoffman?

  But a lot of names.

• 32:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  A lot of names.

• 32:44David Hoffman?

  And interestingly enough, like I know this isn't actually who is Satoshi. This is who will HBO name as Satoshi.

• 32:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly.

• 32:51David Hoffman?

  But the amount of money spread around these people is thin. As in like, no one has actually decided it's anyone. Like, no, it could be anyone.

• 32:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so who did they name?

• 33:02David Hoffman?

  Peter Todd, who is a Bitcoin OG developer in this space. I think you and I have both gotten into Twitter fights with him.

• 33:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  We've interacted with Peter Todd. He's been around.

• 33:11David Hoffman?

  He's like, he's a old school Bitcoin maxi.

• 33:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  He's a Bitcoin developer, too.

• 33:17David Hoffman?

  Bitcoin developer, yeah, that's right, that's right. They named, they actually, they didn't even name Peter Todd as Satoshi. They kind of like accused him of being Satoshi.

• 33:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Should we watch the clip?

• 33:27David Hoffman?

  Let's watch the clip, which is kind of the climax of the whole. I didn't watch the documentary, but this clip I think really just kind of encapsulates it.

• 33:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, this shows what the vibe of the documentary was. Here it is.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  A concept which you had envisioned years earlier, but you needed some kind of cover in order to make. And you also needed some cover for that 2010 post.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I was Satoshi.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, you know, you're very concerned about all the privacy stuff. Uh, so you reach out to your old buddy Adam Back, you say, we need to do something about this, but we need to pay the devs. But you can't join Blockstream because it would look too suspicious. So you don't.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  I will admit, you're pretty creative. You come up with some crazy theories. It's ludicrous, but it's the sort of theory someone who spends their time as a documentary hero wants to come up with. So yeah, yeah, I'll say, of course I'm Satoshi and I'm Craig Rich. And yes, I was definitely covering that little bit about, you know, fees to go pretend to be Satoshi or not Satoshi, one or the other.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Why make up the whole John Dillon thing?

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Well, like I said, I'm not John Dillon.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Sorry, I'm not John Dillon. I don't know who that is. I'll warn you, this is going to be very funny when you put this into the documentary and a bunch of Bitcoiners watch it.

• 34:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was Peter Todd speaking the entire time with Adam Back.

• 34:46David Hoffman?

  Adam Back also kind of chuckling in the background.

• 34:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so, uh, what do you think about Peter Todd as Satoshi?

• 34:52David Hoffman?

  Uh, I mean, I think a bunch of people who don't know anything about Satoshi came into the industry and it was like, you know what? Let's go figure out who Satoshi is. Got as close as they could that they needed to, to make a movie out of it, and now now we're watching it.

• 35:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  It was super la- I feel like it's super lazy.

• 35:08David Hoffman?

  It was pretty cringe.

• 35:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like a better way to do a documentary like this is to go through the evidence for each of the names on that list and leave it as a question mark, but do the deep dive, due diligence for everyone, not just a...

• 35:20David Hoffman?

  If you're not confident in your answer, that's okay. It's still a good story.

• 35:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, they they were following Peter Todd around with a camera, like accusing him of being Satoshi. And this is just like absolutely ludicrous. He would be like pretty low on my list of actual Satoshi suspects. So Peter Todd replied, of course I'm not Satoshi in the aftermath of this. It's ironic that a director who is also known for a documentary on QAnon has resorted to QAnon-style coincidence-based conspiracy thinking here too. Much hype about nothing. I feel like this is a big nothing burger, David.

• 35:52David Hoffman?

  It is a big nothing burger. Yeah, we're talking about it. It was good viral marketing.

• 35:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 35:57David Hoffman?

  Uh, but I think like it's the the viewers of this documentary are just going to be like Bitcoiners and crypto people hate watching it because of how cringe it was.

• 36:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure who this documentary was for at the end of the day.

• 36:10David Hoffman?

  Unless any new data comes out. We are at the end of the discoverability of Satoshi. Like, no one is going to figure it out. If they haven't figured it out by now, it's actually in the history.

• 36:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 36:22David Hoffman?

  The halls of history.

• 36:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Here's an example of an angry Bitcoiner take. HBO documentary is disgusting. It's baffling they reached this conclusion when all Bitcoin experts disagree. It's like making a Flat Earth documentary without review from scientists and promoting it as unveiling Earth's secrets. The Flat Earth. There you go. We still do not know who Satoshi Nakamoto is, and it's probably better off that way that we don't. Let's talk about-

• 36:47David Hoffman?

  Hawk Tua.

• 36:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hawk Tua? Wait, what?

• 36:49David Hoffman?

  That's who's on your screen right now.

• 36:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh.

• 36:51David Hoffman?

  I thought it was pretty funny. So Hawk Tua Girl, she just tweets out, "HBO was wrong. I'm Hawk Toshi Tua Moto." And there's a Hawk Tua laser-eyed, Michael Saylor-esque meme, AI-generated meme that she created. I thought it was pretty funny.

• 37:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Man, she knows how to get into like every single week's news.

• 37:09David Hoffman?

  The crypto Twitter community has somehow like found the attention of Hawk Tua Girl.

• 37:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Does she have a meme coin?

• 37:14David Hoffman?

  She does not have a meme coin, not that I know of.

• 37:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, not yet.

• 37:17David Hoffman?

  She's got a Mad Black's PFP, and now she's doing Sailor memes.

• 37:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's wild.

• 37:22David Hoffman?

  Nothing about Ethereum, though.

• 37:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can I tell you about FBI Coin, David?

• 37:25David Hoffman?

  The FBI Coin?

• 37:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, so it's like, it's not like maybe I oversold that. It's not an FBI Coin. So here's the headline this comes from, from Reuters. "The US Charges Three Companies and Fifteen People With Cryptocurrency Fraud."

• 37:39David Hoffman?

  Oh, that's not a coin at all.

• 37:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, so apparently these were market-making companies, and they primarily market-made for meme coins. So where that eventually led was, of course, pump and dump.

• 37:50David Hoffman?

  Mark, was it market-making?

• 37:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Fake trade volume, you know, all those sorts of things. The interesting part of this story is not that they were busted, although that in itself is interesting. It's the lengths the FBI actually went to. You know the FBI is very famous for going undercover, you know, doing things surreptitiously? Well, in this case, what they actually did was they launched a token, David. The FBI launched their own token, and they formed this company. It's called The Next Fund AI Token, with a company around it, Next Fund AI. And here's a quote- The FBI took the unprecedented step of creating its very own cryptocurrency token and company to identify, disrupt, and bring these alleged fraudsters to justice. The NextFund AI token was a cryptocurrency token created at the direction of law enforcement.

• 38:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  So this is the FBI with a crypto wallet, like minting a coin in order to lure these pump and dump, you know, scammers.

• 38:44David Hoffman?

  Pump and dump market makers. So they wanted to be a client of these market makers.

• 38:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 38:50David Hoffman?

  Who are actually pump and dump, you know.

• 38:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  In order to identify them, in order, I don't know if this, you know, what is, like, does this cross the line into entrapment? I'm not a lawyer. I don't understand these types of things, but.

• 39:02David Hoffman?

  Does the FBI, are they beholden to entrapment? I don't even know.

• 39:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know how that works. But anyway, this is NextFund AI. They had an entire website around this. And this is how they rooted out this, this group of market maker scammers.

• 39:13David Hoffman?

  And your job is to make a trap meme coin to target, to find scammers. What was interesting is actually Zach XBT actually predicted this, the downfall of Gotbit, which is these.

• 39:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  One of the market makers?

• 39:28David Hoffman?

  One of the market makers.

• 39:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  One of these three companies?

• 39:29David Hoffman?

  He tweeted out in September of 2023, so a year ago. "I would be wary of any projects you see working with the market maker Gotbit as a leaked report shows highly questionable services being offered." They claim during the first minutes in the price discovery stage, we are going to push the price up to 10x to pay a FOMO and accumulate as much buying power as we can to reach extreme x's.

• 39:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not even trying to hide it.

• 39:52David Hoffman?

  And sell some tokens on the subsequent spike. And I think the people are asking like, well, is that illegal? And the FBI is saying, yes, yes, it is illegal.

• 40:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know crypto Twitter is incredibly excited about meme coins. It's just like, as I've said before on Bitcoin, this is kind of like not my thing. So like, people are free to do it. Fantastic. If you like meme coins, go do it. I will say though, there's so much surface opportunity for scams and frauds in the meme coin world. There's this like narrative that like, you know, only the VCs do the pump and dump. They're dumping on retail and meme coins are pure and good and noble and true. And then like you see cases like this, it's very easy to manipulate these markets. And that's actually what's happening behind the scenes.

• 40:34David Hoffman?

  Meme coins are pure in that there wasn't structural amounts of capital getting early, like VCs are not getting early on meme coins.

• 40:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 40:42David Hoffman?

  But somebody is still getting early somewhere, and it's actually not structural. It's actually not really known by the market. And so I think this is kind of opening up the question is like, how do we ask and get transparency out of meme coins?

• 40:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, yeah, some of the meme coin influencers are under the microscope. So this is Ansem. This is actually polymarket on Ansem. Ansem criminal charges, will he face criminal charges in 2024? And there's a 10% chance that he will. And this actually spiked up at some various points in time.

• 41:12David Hoffman?

  Right, right when this got released.

• 41:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Criminal charges got released. There was also earlier in the week, David, Zach XBT, yet again, released a list, doxed the wallets of Murad. So Bankless Sisters, maybe you saw Murad, he's going all around crypto Twitter. He was at Token 2049. He is sort of the Messiah of meme coins, kind of the most current manifestation of sort of a, I think you would say, occult leader of meme coins. He basically thinks they're incredibly bullish. He thinks this is the breakout retail use case. And he has a list of meme coins that he thinks are going to like 10x, 100x this cycle. And Zach XBT disclosed a set of his wallets, $25 million worth of meme coins. And a lot of people are saying, hey, why are you doxing someone in crypto?

• 41:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like, not cool, that's dangerous, don't do that. Zach's reply was, you know, Murad requires some accountability. He is the one promoting these meme coins. We should know whether he's pumping, dumping, like whether he's selling, like this transparency is necessary. What's your take on this?

• 42:15David Hoffman?

  I think if you are using public influence and you are talking about meme coins, then the public does deserve some level of transparency about what's going on. That is what I think. I think that is fair.

• 42:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, disclosures.

• 42:30David Hoffman?

  Disclosures are just a totally fair thing to ask for.

• 42:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hey, bankless.com/disclosures, right?

• 42:36David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 42:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  You see our activities.

• 42:38David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And so, okay, so there's like the highly illegal, like definitely on the black and white side of things, definitely in the black activity. Of this like market making funds that the FBI went after. And then there's, there's like a spectrum of like questionable activity before there. And then there's like highly legit activity and like we, the cryptocurrency players of the meme coin game exists across all spectrums of that like, you know, above boredness or below boredness. And I think that's like why I am saying is that like 10% and not like 1% or a hundred percent. There's like, there's not a clear line as to like what's a clear pump and dump. Or what is, what it would be kind of like organic market activity.

• 43:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I feel like people think there's not some clear lines, but these market makers, right? Doing wash trading like clearly, I mean, you read the text, market makers website. We're going to just 100x this coin.

• 43:26David Hoffman?

  The intent there was like pretty damning.

• 43:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Use some common sense. If it's illegal in the real world, it's definitely illegal in crypto. And these things will catch up to you. It's all on chain. David, what do we got coming up?

• 43:37David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, a brand new EIP to make all of Ethereum layer one 33% better. We're going to talk about that. Gary Gensler sends another Wells notice. But then he just gets a Uno reverse card played right in his face. And then we're also going to talk about permissionless because this conference I think has been great and I want to talk to you about it. But we're going to get to all of these subjects and more, but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible. New projects are coming online to the mantle layer two every single week. Why is this happening? Maybe it's because mantle has been on the frontier of layer two design architecture since it first started building mantle DA powered by technology from EigenDA. Maybe it's because users are coming on to the mantle layer two to capture some of the highest yields available in DeFi.

• 44:17David Hoffman?

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• 45:02David Hoffman?

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• 45:44David Hoffman?

  brings radically simple solutions to Ethereum so developers can do what they do best. Build. Go ahead and discover a flexible modular stack on Cartesi and build your most powerful ambitious project yet. Visit cartesi.io/simple and simplify your blockchain journey and start building today. Who is the new crypto company on the block to get a Wells notice from the SEC? Welcome crypto.com to the cool kids club. Congratulations on your Wells notice. Also, even cooler, responding with just suing the SEC in response. So the SEC, what's a Wells notice? A Wells notice is the SEC saying, hey, we intend to sue you in the future.

• 46:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Heads up, we're gonna sue you.

• 46:23David Hoffman?

  Heads up, we're gonna sue you. And then crypto.com is saying, we are currently suing you as a response to you threatening to sue us.

• 46:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, what do they sue them for? Like, what's crypto.com saying?

• 46:32David Hoffman?

  Okay, so crypto.com says it is suing the SEC after receiving a Wells notice from them. According to the complaint, the Wells notice involves allegations that crypto.com is operating as an unregistered broker dealer and securities clearing agency. Man, I have heard this movie so many times before. In the complaint, it says the SEC is now threatening enforcement action against crypto.com in regard to secondary market sales of tokens on the platform, even though the SEC does not have jurisdiction over those sales and cannot lawfully regulate the market absent action from Congress, a fact recognized by members of the commission itself.

• 47:06David Hoffman?

  Kind of just like stiff-arming the SEC.

• 47:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  And the Wells notice was, again, for like, you know, selling illegal securities.

• 47:14David Hoffman?

  Doing what Coinbase does, what Kraken does, like all the other reasons why all these other companies have gotten Wells notices. And I think like crypto, since like crypto.com is like the seventh company to get one of these, they're just like stuffing it. They're just like, take it to the court.

• 47:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Also, SEC Commissioner Mark Ueda was on Fox Business, actually, and commented on this, so let's play that.

• 47:36Speaker 04

  What is the SEC doing regarding crypto?

• 47:39Speaker 05

  Well, I think our policies and our approach for the last several years have been just really a disaster for the whole industry. We have been sending this policy through enforcement. We've done nothing to provide guidance on it. And as a result, this has been shaped by the courts. And different courts have ruled different ways. I think what this Wells notice is, and while I won't comment on the specifics of this litigation, the Wells, what has gone on is part of a broader frustration with the fact that we have not provided interpretive guidance as to what you can and cannot do. And if you are involved in some sort of securities offering, how you register, how you get regulated as a broker-dealer, how you get registered as an exchange.

• 48:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Listen to that, David. Our approach, this is the SEC Commissioner, not Hester Purce, another SEC Commissioner saying, "Our approach to crypto has been a disaster." Absolute disaster, saying this publicly.

• 48:35David Hoffman?

  Very refreshing to hear that.

• 48:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  There was a reflection from Gabe Shapiro about like Gary Gensler's strategy, and he said this. Crypto.com suing the SEC after a Wells notice. Gensler went with probably the highest risk, highest reward strategy imaginable for a careerist liberal-term Democrat. In my opinion, he will be remembered for losing big, but he will be remembered. What is Gary's strategy here? He just keeps losing? He's like losing, you know, the faith of the public, his own commissioners, the government? I don't know who is still in his court. I guess he'll be remembered, but maybe not in the way he intends?

• 49:08David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I guess we'll kind of see what the end game is with what happens to him at the end of this election. I don't think he is going to stay put. Either presidency, I don't think he's going to be the SEC Commissioner. Worst case is that he stops being SEC Commissioner or he gets promoted by Kamala. But I think there's a plenty valid path that Kamala actually also quietly fires him and pretends like the Democrats were never actually pro Gensler ever. But we know that the Trump administration is very anti-Gensler. One of the big things that happened this week, Robinhood Chief Legal Officer Dan Galixer is one of the leading candidates for Gary Gensler's replacement if Trump wins.

• 49:47David Hoffman?

  So Trump is talking about the current Robinhood CLO, Chief Legal Officer Dan, who's actually a previous SEC Commissioner. I believe previously a Republican SEC Commissioner from 2011 to 2015.

• 49:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 49:58David Hoffman?

  And so one of the candidates for the SEC Commissioner if Trump wins, I think that would be very good.

• 50:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Gallagher, I think, would be very pro crypto. So that would be a fantastic Gary Gensler replacement. There's some EIP news coming out on the week. So something about improving the Layer 1. What was this EIP?

• 50:16David Hoffman?

  It's like a global 33% improvement of Ethereum of a number of different metrics. So EIP 7781 to make Ethereum faster by 33% authored by Ben Adams, Nethermind co-founder, one of the client teams of Ethereum. Reduce block times by 33% from 12 seconds to 8 seconds, which would reduce the base rollup latency. Would increase, of course, transaction throughput by 33%, which would also increase the number of blobs. So we can actually keep the blob count the same. We can keep the gas target the same, but everything else just gets 33% faster.

• 50:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  More capacity for Layer 2s then. It's actually starting to fill up, right? What are we like 75, 80% at capacity?

• 50:57David Hoffman?

  At capacity with blobs. And we do not want to be at capacity with blobs. We always want to have slack for more blobs.

• 51:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because?

• 51:04David Hoffman?

  Because then you induce more demand for blobs by increasing more Layer 2s.

• 51:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sure.

• 51:09David Hoffman?

  Which is the rollup-centric roadmap.

• 51:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Sure.

• 51:10David Hoffman?

  More app chains. Because like, and we just got the uni chain, but what about the Aave chain?

• 51:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right.

• 51:16David Hoffman?

  What about the Maker Dow chain? What about all the other app chains?

• 51:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  And our existing Layer 2s are just getting started, just getting started. So they're going to be hungry for some blob space. The nice thing about this. EIP is it doesn't actually increase a solo staker bandwidth requirements, at least the peak bandwidth requirements. So you're not going to have to get like a faster connection as a solo staker for peak time. So it's a nice compromise from that perspective. I want to like zoom out and ask the question.

• 51:43David Hoffman?

  I actually don't know how that works.

• 51:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 51:46David Hoffman?

  How do we not increase the bandwidth, but we are increasing the block size?

• 51:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're increasing the bandwidth, but my understanding is you're not increasing the peak bandwidth, which is kind of the constraint here, a bit more of the constraint.

• 51:58David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 51:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  And I'm not sure the subtleties or technicalities that go into that, but it might be a nice compromise.

• 52:03David Hoffman?

  It was it was cool seeing Vitalik's comment where he thinks that we can make a trade off. He's saying the 32 ETH staking barrier is actually a larger barrier than the bandwidth requirements.

• 52:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's capital, it's expensive.

• 52:14David Hoffman?

  What if we lowered the barrier down to some lower minimum like 16? And then we also up to the bandwidth requirements. And so taking down 32 to 16 would like in theory, double the amount of solo staker supply available.

• 52:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 52:28David Hoffman?

  But then you can use that slack that you just created by upping the bandwidth requirements.

• 52:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 52:32David Hoffman?

  So more solo stakers are enabled by lowering the bandwidth and by lowering the ether requirements. And then you can kind of find more of those solo stakers in higher networked areas to be solo stakers, 60 need solo stakers in high network areas.

• 52:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what do you think? Do you think the the conversation around improving the the layer one in Ethereum has resulted in this EIP being proposed and gaining traction?

• 52:56David Hoffman?

  This EIP is a direct reaction to some of the recent Ethereum roadmap conversations. And again, all of the Ethereum roadmap conversations, the I was listening to a Tushar talk here at Permissionless. And he was talking about, and even Kyle at Token was like, oh yeah. And Ethereum is now doing soul searching around its roadmap. And we're like, yo buddy, like, let's calm it down. We are talking about merely reprioritizing a future part of the roadmap and bringing it up to today. And that is what this EIP is.

• 53:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, some gradual incremental changes that we can get in fairly quickly, which is good. Yeah, I think that's that's bullish. David, do you see this video clip from the IMF? This is a, her name is. Julie Kozak, she's a director of communications at the IMF. So this is a big banking cabal, the International Monetary Fund. And this clip that we're about to play, it's kind of, it's almost like chilling. So this is the IMF telling a sovereign country, the sovereign country of El Salvador, what to hold on their balance sheet and cautioning them about holding Bitcoin. Let's play it.

• 54:03Speaker 06

  With respect to the details on Bitcoin, what we have recommended is a narrowing of the scope of the Bitcoin law, strengthening the regulatory framework and oversight of the Bitcoin ecosystem,

• 54:21Speaker 06

  and limiting the public sector exposure to Bitcoin.

• 54:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  You hear that? So the IMF says, if you want to play with the big banks like us, you better limit the public sector exposure to Bitcoin. Get that Bitcoin off your balance sheet.

• 54:38David Hoffman?

  The juxtaposition of like, one of the members, the leaders of the biggest banking cabal in the world, telling a nation state that they need to limit public sector accessibility of Bitcoin, is like, the exact opposite of what I'm here to do.

• 54:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right.

• 54:55David Hoffman?

  That is just the opposite of what I want. The audacity of someone telling that another, a country that they're going to limit the public, the public, in any way. You don't get to just limit the public.

• 55:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's a check on El Salvador's democracy. Yeah, absolutely. It's, uh, yeah, anyway.

• 55:13David Hoffman?

  Unlimit the public.

• 55:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  They said the quiet part out loud.

• 55:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah, yeah, it was like, do you hear yourself, lady?

• 55:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't understand. Oh, also, there's some news. While you're away fighting, I added this link to the rollup. So the World Liberty Financial released some additional details. One, World Liberty Financial, of course, this is the Aave DeFi protocol. Some people are calling this TrumpFi, you know, it's like Trump's version of DeFi on Aave. So two things happened. One is there's rumor of a raise, a $1.5 billion Raise, okay.

• 55:47David Hoffman?

  Valuation.

• 55:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  A valuation, I should say. $300 million raise. 1.5 billion dollar valuation. And they also posted on the AVE governance forums.

• 55:58David Hoffman?

  Oh, they're in the AVE governance forums?

• 55:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, they're in the AVE governance forums. And they're basically proposing that AVE would earn 20% of protocol fees generated by this AVE V3 instance and receive 7% of WLFI tokens, that World Liberty Financial's actual tokens, in exchange for, I suppose, using AVE in this way.

• 56:19David Hoffman?

  Interesting. Okay, so it's increasingly like World Liberty Financial is just a reskinning whitelist of AVE. And they're also making economic transaction, proposing economic transactions with AVE for incentive alignment.

• 56:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I mean, it's not crazy. Whether it will have any traction or product market fit, whether anyone's like, oh, this is a unique user experience. You know, like, I got it. I gotta use, I don't want to use just generic AVE. I want to use TrumpFi. Whether there's a market for that, I don't know. But, yeah, the fact of the matter is.

• 56:51David Hoffman?

  I think there is.

• 56:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  There probably is, right? There probably is. And the fact of the matter is, maybe the market, VCs anyway, are valuing this at 1.5 billion.

• 57:00David Hoffman?

  What VC do you think is going to do this?

• 57:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, they're going to do like a token as well. So this is not a straight ICO. I believe it'll be accredited investor type tokens. It'll have lockups. So, you know, it could be angels, could be VCs, could be all sorts of capital.

• 57:13David Hoffman?

  63% of the supply will be sold to the public in the future.

• 57:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  I guess the point, though, is it's AVE, you know? It's like, nothing crazy here.

• 57:21David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 57:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  So.

• 57:22David Hoffman?

  Right. Well, it's AVE in the backend, but you're investing in distribution. You're investing in AVE distribution. Honestly, hugely bullish for AVE.

• 57:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, this is what Mark Zeller says. The valuation, just with the 7% of tokens that World Liberty Financial would give to the AVE DAO, that's valued at $105 million at a 1.5 billion valuation. So, uh, thank you.

• 57:47David Hoffman?

  I mean, if World Liberty Financial is successful, you would think that it would attract. At least a couple billion dollars of deposits.

• 57:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right.

• 57:56David Hoffman?

  Into World Liberty Financial, into AVE. If World Liberty Financial is at all successful, it's just like, AVE just wins. And World Liberty wins, but AVE wins.

• 58:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, it's increasingly not looking like a scam, right? It could be a white label, low value proposition thing.

• 58:10David Hoffman?

  Innovative project?

• 58:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's definitely not, no.

• 58:12David Hoffman?

  But also, again, like, what does crypto need the most? Like, use of capital and dividend and distribution.

• 58:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, another thing it needs, actually, is protection from, you know, regulators like Gary Gensler, who are trying to shut it all down, and this is Donald Trump doing it. So it's, I mean-

• 58:28David Hoffman?

  Imagine having, like, the President of the United States is, like, associated with your, like, DeFi protocol.

• 58:37David Hoffman?

  Can you get FDIC insurance on World Liberty Financial?

• 58:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I have no idea what's going to happen.

• 58:42David Hoffman?

  Depository protections?

• 58:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, this is a project that's worth looking at, so we'll continue to provide you guys updates. All right, David, let's, as we get to the close of this weekly roll-up, let's talk about Permissionless. So how's the conference been for you, man?

• 58:53David Hoffman?

  Well, first, I actually want to get your take, because your last conference was Permissionless 2.

• 58:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep.

• 59:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  And the one before that as well.

• 59:01David Hoffman?

  Was Permissionless 1.

• 59:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep.

• 59:02David Hoffman?

  How does this one compare?

• 59:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  I feel like this is, you know, higher quality, is what I would say. Not that the previous ones were low quality, but this is even higher quality. So the content, the speakers, phenomenal, the people I'm running into, talking to. I think we're still in the settler area, era. And I think all of kind of the people who are here for just like, you know, meme coin and just like short-termism type stuff, they went to Singapore.

• 59:28David Hoffman?

  Yeah, they did not come to Permissionless.

• 59:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  They didn't come here. So what you're seeing is really high quality, like, the events that I'm going to, the people I'm talking to, I mean, these are DeFi crypto settlers in the US, and it's, yeah, it's just great to see. So higher quality. Also, again, at the intro, you said, "It feels like the Goldilocks zone right now of crypto, where we've been to Permissionless 1 was like, too much. It was, we're still in hype season, you know, it was a little too much." And then Permissionless 2 was, you know, bear market blues. This is like, right, it's perfect, a lot of building going on.

• 1:00:01David Hoffman?

  Yeah. It feels like a little bit of East Denver 2019 for me.

• 1:00:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07David Hoffman?

  Where that was also the last East Denver before the East Denver side event meta really cropped up. I think Permissionless is the last, I'll call it monolithic conference. You've been paying attention because I come and tell you about all these conferences that I go to. All of them have just like sharded into a thousand side events.

• 1:00:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, they fragmented?

• 1:00:26David Hoffman?

  They fragmented into side events because people, because side events are kind of cool. And so people are running around like maniacs, trying to go to as many side events as possible. No one's ended up going to the main events anymore. And then you go from like, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, side events, to happy hour side events, to parties. And Permissionless is actually just not any of that. It's actually the last monolithic conference that I think exists.

• 1:00:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  The content's good.

• 1:00:48David Hoffman?

  The content is really good. I'm going to leak a statement from somebody who I actually can't name. But she, a very, very prominent person in the crypto industry and was like, told my, my source, "Do not schedule any meetings for me in the first day, the first day of Wednesday because I want to go to all of the talks."

• 1:01:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:01:06David Hoffman?

  Which is pretty cool.

• 1:01:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that's really cool.

• 1:01:08David Hoffman?

  And then I think yesterday there were like three side events. One of them was Galaxy Digital, another one, I can't remember, and then the third one was ours. Three total side events is like unheard of, but, and they all started after the conference ended.

• 1:01:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21David Hoffman?

  So the conference ended at like four, side events started at six.

• 1:01:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  It was side events for hanging out, it wasn't side events for like a whole separate content thing.

• 1:01:29David Hoffman?

  Club side events, like we had our, our side event at a brewery with a ton of space.

• 1:01:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, it's so chill.

• 1:01:35David Hoffman?

  Like, it was great not being in a massive crowd.

• 1:01:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38David Hoffman?

  I don't know, you've never been to like these oversaturated side events, but like, they're just so crazy.

• 1:01:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know the vibe, yeah, I know the vibe.

• 1:01:44David Hoffman?

  There's like a lot of fitness going on. I'm looking at people to having a pull-up bar competition behind you. There's a flex arm hanging over there tomorrow. There is, no, tonight, actually, there's a pickleball tournament.

• 1:01:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55David Hoffman?

  There's actually a lot of activities going on.

• 1:01:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, Ben from Bankless Ventures put on a run. This is Jesse Ecto, who I had the pleasure of meeting at the bankless sit-in at the, at the party. Day one of Permissionless, and it's already my favorite conference I've ever attended. No fluff, the people here are the top 1% of the space. Haven't had a boring conversation yet. I've loved nearly every single talking session I've attended, not zoning out halfway through. And then he gave a shout out for the Bankless meetup. He said it was the best side event he's ever been to. No blaring club music, and I could actually talk to people.

• 1:02:25David Hoffman?

  Dude, the number of times I have been at some sort of club-based side event, and I am... Yelling in a crowd of three other people about some niche crypto infra topic while there is a DJ and laser lights in the background and like that's that's the whole

• 1:02:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Honestly, that's what I want to talk to people about. I'm with my nerds only once a year. I want to talk about nerdy shit. I'm sorry.

• 1:02:47David Hoffman?

  So we got a brewery with a big outside space. I played Jenga for like two hours yesterday.

• 1:02:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Jenga. That's so good. Okay, but that's not the end. All right. So Bankless listeners, this comes out on Friday. What's today? The 11th. It's coming out Friday the 11th. So this evening, David is going to be fighting. He's gonna be

• 1:03:06David Hoffman?

  Oh yeah, Friday evening.

• 1:03:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Friday evening. So when people hear this, it'll be your evening. David will be fighting in, it's not the octagon, in the karate combat pit. Look at this. I've got a picture on the screen of the of what the pit looks like. This is just adjacent to the conference. So people can go there and we will be live streaming this event. Okay. So I think I'm gonna be commenting it. Maybe I'll have someone with me. I have no idea what I'm going to say or what's going to happen, having never attended one of these events before. But we'll be watching David live and you're challenging Kane Warwick.

• 1:03:40David Hoffman?

  Of Synthetics, yeah.

• 1:03:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  What?

• 1:03:41David Hoffman?

  Who we just invested in.

• 1:03:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes. So two rounds, right? Two two-minute rounds?

• 1:03:46David Hoffman?

  Two rounds, two minutes each with an optional third round if there's a tie, if there needs to be a tiebreaker of one minute. And the kind of like, it's the Influencer Flight Club. People are going for the spectacle. If you make it both rounds, like you get the third round.

• 1:04:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, you get a third. Okay.

• 1:04:01David Hoffman?

  You get the third round just to do the tiebreaker. Yeah. So maximum possible five minutes.

• 1:04:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. So I was just there at the face off thing. Kane said he was gonna knock David out.

• 1:04:12David Hoffman?

  Yeah, he did say that.

• 1:04:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, anyway.

• 1:04:15David Hoffman?

  I mean, everyone says that. Everyone really says that. Let's be real. I wasn't gonna say it just because like everyone says that.

• 1:04:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is the poly market right now. You're up a little bit on the week, David. 37% chance. Maybe that's not

• 1:04:27David Hoffman?

  The poly market is fading me.

• 1:04:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  The poly market's fading you. There's another market with some more favorable numbers that's maybe more reflective of the reality.

• 1:04:34David Hoffman?

  It's 24 hours ahead of the fight. The actual karate combat market goes up, which is a very similar market. It's, um, instead of winning one side's money, you'd actually just win karate token admissions.

• 1:04:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47David Hoffman?

  It's kind of like up only betting, no one actually loses money. But these are the people, these are like the karate combat fans, the people who like open up the app, who are follow along with the league.

• 1:04:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 1:04:56David Hoffman?

  I'm gonna call this-

• 1:04:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  The smart money.

• 1:04:57David Hoffman?

  The smart money.

• 1:04:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Of course they are.

• 1:04:58David Hoffman?

  Who understands the league and fighters and fighting generally.

• 1:05:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what's the smart money saying?

• 1:05:02David Hoffman?

  Unlike polymarket, which clearly has a bunch of emotional feelings baked into the market.

• 1:05:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  And the, and the smart money, we should say, is 80% odds?

• 1:05:11David Hoffman?

  82% odds, David Hoffman.

• 1:05:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was this morning. It might be dropping a little bit, but it's much higher, much more favorable to David Hoffman. So guys, if you want to catch that, see Bankless Fight Night, I don't know what it's gonna be.

• 1:05:23David Hoffman?

  Bankless Karate Combat.

• 1:05:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Friday Combat. Uh, I will be, we will be streaming that on Bankless YouTube, so just type Bankless in YouTube, and we can watch David live, cheer him on, bet with him, hopefully not bet against him, and wait for him to knock down that tall tree, which is Kane Warwick.

• 1:05:40David Hoffman?

  Tall, tall skinny tree. Tall skinny tree.

• 1:05:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, let's end it there. Uh, risks and disclaimers, uh, you know, fighting other people is risky, so is crypto. You could lose what you put in, but we are headed west, this is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the Bankless journey. Thanks a lot.

• 1:05:55Speaker 07

  Hoffman to the stage.

• 1:06:04Speaker 07

  David Hoffman weighs in at 170.5 pounds.

• 1:06:12Speaker 07

  All right, and his opponent, Kane.

• 1:06:32Speaker 07

  Kane weighs in at 170.5 pounds. All right, let's step up front, guys. Can we get a face off? Right here? Face off, there we go. All right, this is Fight of the Night, this is your main event, right in front of you, right now. All right?

• 1:06:53Speaker 07

  Let's go, let's make some noise, it's your main event! What's going on here? Let's do it, alright!

• 1:07:01Speaker 07

  Now, David,

• 1:07:05Speaker 07

  you were supposed to fight Nick Carter. You received a rib injury, and you have recovered over that. How was that journey to get to this fight, and are you ready?

• 1:07:16David Hoffman?

  Uh, yeah, I challenged Kane because I worked really hard with my training for my fight with Nick. I never got to have that fight with Nick, and so I want to put all of that training to good use. And so here we are.

• 1:07:28Speaker 07

  Here we are. Alright, now to Kane. Kane, you seem to have a slight age difference between you and your opponent. Sorry I gotta bring it up, alright? Father Time isn't the best when it comes to combat sports, but it has been beaten. Do we see you beating Father Time, and beating your opponent David, in the pit tomorrow? Yeah, absolutely. By the time we get finished tomorrow, he's gonna wish that he was fighting Nick Carter. Ooh, strong words. Alright, now, do we have any predictions? Yeah, we're gonna see a knockout. Knockout, any round? Whenever it happens. Whenever it happens is what he says. Do you have any predictions?

• 1:08:06David Hoffman?

  Uh, Kane is a tall tree, and they're easy to knock down.

• 1:08:09Speaker 07

  Ah, okay, so this man is, he's chopping trees? Alright, I love to hear it. Okay, now, you guys are actually friends. In our last main event, they were friends as well. What brings you to want to fight your friend?

• 1:08:22David Hoffman?

  Uh, for the memes. For the memes.

• 1:08:25Speaker 07

  What about you? I mean, he challenged me, and I was like, "Let's do it." Let's do it, alright. Well, this is your main event, let's make some noise for these guys right now! And they will be throwing it down, main event IFC5. It is going down, alright.