How To Heal Your Relationship With Money To Create More Abundance

I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person! Get my new book Make Money Easy here! Three financial titans reveal the hidden truths about building lasting wealth that most people miss. Anthony O'Neal shares raw insights around his journey from homelessness to awakening others about toxic money beliefs. Dave Ramsey dismantles the surprising connection between marriage success and wealth creation, while Kevin O'Leary ("Mr. Wonderful") flips the script on risk-taking - exposing why truly wealthy people are often the most conservative investors. Through stories of failure, redemption, and hard-won wisdom, these masters of money illuminate an unexpected path to abundance: one built on character, relationships, and the courage to think differently about wealth. In this episode you will learn:Why wealthy people are often more conservative with risk than you might expectThe three critical money conversations every couple needs to have before marriageHow giving and generosity correlate with long-term financial successWhy failed entrepreneurs often make better investments than first-time foundersThe three qualities Kevin O'Leary looks for in every business investmentDave Ramsey's infinity loop between marriage quality and wealth buildingFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1730For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Anthony O'Neal – greatness.lnk.to/1222SCDave Ramsey – greatness.lnk.to/1415SCKevin O'Leary – greatness.lnk.to/1076SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book, Make Money Easy, and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family, bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston. We're going to Nashville, then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to LewisHowes.com/tour. Again, bring everyone you know. If you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life and you want to see a massive guest live on the School of Greatness show,

• 0:45Speaker 00

  get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  You realize from being broke and homeless that you wanted to learn, you wanted to teach wealth generation, but you didn't know how to make money at that point.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  No, I didn't.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  So you had to go on the journey of discovering what does that look like? What does that mean? How do I get out of debt? How do I earn a consistent living? How do I save it? How do I invest it? The whole process.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  You know, because growing up, man, I was taught, you know, I grew up in a very strong Christian faith home. I have four parents. I have two biological parents and two stepparents. My biological mom and stepdad and my siblings live here in California. Then my biological father and stepmom live in North Carolina, right? And I grew up in a very church state. The only conversation we really had around finances was give.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Just give to the church.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  That's it. You didn't talk about money.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  No, we didn't really talk about, hey, here's how you build wealth. Here's how you start a business. Here's what entrepreneurship looks like. It was, hey, when you get your money from Wendy's, you want to give 10% to the church. Then what you do with the other 90%, save it. Save a little bit, but you know, you want the shoes, you go buy it. No one really talked to me about how to invest. No one said, hey, son, save this money, baby, go start a small business. So growing up, I just knew, go get a job, you know, work the 40 hours a week. Make sure you get a good 401K benefit package with some good health insurance and keep your credit score above a 700. And then you'll get a good retirement package at the end of your time. No one really said, hey, here's how you start thinking at eighteen to build true love.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Here's, here's how you start a business. So I said, there has to be more.

• 2:23Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  There, there has to be more than just living paycheck to paycheck, sleeping in the back of my car, and looking at everyone else look good, but honestly, I was tired of looking good and honestly not being good.

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's a big one, man. Looking good is, uh, that's tough. If you don't feel good on the inside, it doesn't matter how much money and how, how good you look, how shiny you are on the outside. If you doesn't feel confident in yourself and proud of yourself of what you're creating. I'm curious, you've talked to a lot of different individuals, parents, families about money. What would you say are the three biggest conversation mistakes that parents teach their kids around money in general? Or three, three things that they don't teach they should be teaching? What are they saying? That's maybe not the best thing they should say.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 3:13Lewis Howes?

  You know, you had your experience, but what are other people saying that you're hearing?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Number one thing is chores, you know, like, we're gonna pay you and give you an allowance for just being my son.

• 3:22Lewis Howes?

  That's good or bad?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  That's bad.

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. We, we shouldn't teach our kids that the world is going to reward them for just being who they are. No, we need to teach our young people, hey, the world is gonna reward you by actually producing and by working, okay?

• 3:38Lewis Howes?

  By offering a value.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  Not by just living.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Just by waking up.

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  Cause what does that teach you if you're just gonna give someone money consistently without working?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. It doesn't teach you nothing. And then it's like, why are you paying your kids to make up his bed? To make up her bed? Why, why are you paying your kids to wash dishes? No, pay them to go wash cars, not your car, but your neighbor's car. Pay them to go cut other people's grass. Pay them to go walk other people's dogs. Pay them to walk around the neighbor and pick up trash. Teach them the true value of working in exchange for finances. So that's number one is we gotta stop teaching them that, hey, The only way you can get paid is, you know, make up your bad.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  That's misleading our young people.

• 4:24Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Number two is, you know, I wrote the book Debt Free Degree while I was with Ramsey Solutions, is that the only way to go to college is to finance it. You know, we gotta start, stop telling our young people, hey, your Harvards and Yells and Princeton's are the best schools out there. No. I know a lot of prestigious people who went to community colleges. But I know a lot of people who went to a Harvard or a Yale, a prestigious school, but they're not prestigious individuals.

• 4:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And so what we gotta start teaching young people is, hey, go to college if that's the route that you wanna go. But trade schools are actually in right now, and it's, and it's less expensive.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  I got a friend who's a plumber who's making multiple six figures a year.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  Was a solo plumber.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  Crushing it.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  And he's like, I go golfing every week, I travel, I was just in Hawaii. And he's got his own little business in Vegas making multiple six figures. I'm like, dude, you're crushing it. He's like, yeah, no one wants to do this job, I'm making bank.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  No one. Man, I just had a handyman come out to my house in Ashville.

• 5:19Lewis Howes?

  Charging sixty bucks an hour probably, or something.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  One fifty, an hour.

• 5:22Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, man.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  I say, y'all in the wrong business.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  I was gonna be hammering some nails up in here, you know?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  He was like, but nobody wants to do the ugly work.

• 5:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Nobody wants to be hot, nobody wants to be cold when it's, you know, thirty degrees outside. So he's, I mean, he can rack up. So we gotta start teaching our young people, start asking them, hey, what do you wanna do?

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  You know, what, what is it that, that you feel as if you can do in the world and actually enjoy it? Parents have to stop telling their kids what they will do. Okay? You have some parents saying, hey, I want you to go to this school and become this when you get older. And then, then they grow up, growing envy of their parents, because their parents didn't give them the opportunity to say, you know what? Hey, let's work hand in hand.

• 6:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, or resentful, or whatever it is, yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. So it's like, how, how do we do that together?

• 6:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  So that's number two. And then, number three, um, this is gonna be an unpopular one, but we gotta stop teaching our kids that the only way to be successful financially is to have a high credit score.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  We gotta stop saying that.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  I don't even, maybe I'm weird, but I never even, I don't even know what my credit score is. I never, I never tried to give my credit score, I didn't even like, check what my credit score was until like, a year ago, when I had to do some... I don't know, I signed up for some financial services thing and they had to like check it and I was like, okay. It's never meant anything to me.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Well, first off, I've never bought a house. I've always rented.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  So it's never mattered, I guess, because I've never tried to buy a house. And I don't know what else I would need it for, because I'm just.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  What about a car? You know, some people say.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  I bought cash.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  You bought cash?

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Let's go, Luke, let's go.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Well, I had a used car, because my dad taught me this principle, he always had used cars.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  And he had a used car for like ten, fifteen years. I mean, he would keep it perfectly clean.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:01Lewis Howes?

  At the highest condition for like ten, fifteen years.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:04Lewis Howes?

  So it always looked and felt new, even though it was old.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that came from the teaching of your father, though.

• 7:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because he didn't have a flashy car.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Exactly, and nowadays, and then too, growing up, because we're right around the same age, social media wasn't big back then, so we didn't see all the flashy stuff.

• 7:20Lewis Howes?

  You just saw your neighbor maybe had a nice car and that was it, or your friend or whatever had.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Or whenever you go to church or something like that. So like now, this generation of kids are seeing the flashy stuff. Oh, you gotta have the nice car to be perceived as successful.

• 7:32Lewis Howes?

  And if that's your thing, you like flashy cars, you like flashy watches, that's your thing?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  That's your thing.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Cool.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:39Lewis Howes?

  But don't do it because you need to feel better about yourself, in my opinion.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  And it goes back to the core.

• 7:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  When you really know who you are, you operate and you walk differently.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And that is something that over the last few years, I've really mastered and really keep drilling into myself. This is who you are, this is where you're going. I like cars, I am a car guy.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  So it's your thing.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  That is my thing, but you know what, I'm really coming to value a whole lot more than cars is I want a wife.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  You know, I want kids, you know, and it's like, I value that more.

• 8:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  And when I say I value that, man, I didn't go to Disney World. You know, I haven't been to Disney World yet because, you know, growing up, my family couldn't afford it.

• 8:24Lewis Howes?

  You've been to Disneyland up here in L.A.?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  I haven't been to Disneyland.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  And I've been to Six Flags.

• 8:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  You know, but we couldn't afford.

• 8:32Lewis Howes?

  The stepchild of Disneyland.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  You know, we couldn't afford the family trips this spring break. And it's like, man, when I think about it now, I'm trying to steward and maximize my single season. So that way, when I do have a wife, I do have kids. I can say yes to my wife because I steward this season well. And it's like, one of the things I'm really teaching myself is as a, as a young man dating right when it comes to my money, is I would rather tell my girlfriends no today, so I can tell my wife yes tomorrow.

• 9:04Lewis Howes?

  Let's go.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't have a problem telling them, hey, I'm not, I'm not gonna spend a hundred dollars on a date on you right now. You know, because you may not be my wife. But I refuse to tell my wife no, because I told all of them yes. And as I'm maturing and as I'm growing, I'm realizing that the caliber of my financial future and the caliber of my future family's future is depending upon the choices that I make today. And so I have to be willing and be strong at my core to say no to things that will set me up for my future. And I want my wife to be like, thank you for telling them no. I want my kids, because I remember my mom and dad, unfortunately, I, I have great parents.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  But I remember wearing shoes that had holes at the bottom of it, and we had to put tape on the bottom of it. I don't want that to be my kids. And the decisions that I made today impacts that. You know, I, I wanna be able to take my kids to Disney World. That's the only reason why I haven't been. I've dated ladies with kids, let's go to Disney World. Nope. Why not? I wanna go there with my wife and my kids. I don't wanna go there with my girlfriend and her kids. I wanna go there with my wife and, and, and my kids. You know, I wanna be able to do things with my family that my family couldn't do when I was growing up.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  And so, I'm learning to, I'm, I'm valuing that more. I get, that wakes me up every day. That gets me excited every day. That gets me on my YouTube channel every single day because I'm working for them, then I'm also working for the community.

• 10:35Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. What's the third thing that parents should be doing more?

• 10:41Speaker 01

  The last one, we talked about, like, don't, don't tell them the only way to be successful is having a seven hundred, eight hundred credit score.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  Got it, got it.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Which goes into one, one thing that they're not doing enough is really having the money conversation with them early on as possible. You know, I think that parents, as soon as they say mama, soon as they say daddy, you need to start having a money conversation. Absolutely.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  At two?

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 11:02Lewis Howes?

  What are those conversations they should be having?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  It's on their level, you know what I mean? If, if, if the kid is saying, hey mom, can I get a piece of candy? Well, they understand that candy, tell them, hey, it costs money. And show them, hey, you gotta give this in exchange for that. But let's, let's, let's, you know, pass that level. Let, let's start having a conversation with middle schoolers. One of my good friends has a private school in Nashville. I went to read books with them, um, Lass, a couple of months ago again, right? When I walk into their school, she has a picture of all of her kids on college campuses. These are middle school kids.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Fifth grade. And I said, what are you, what are you doing? She was like, actually, if you look on this one, um, those are our third graders. And I was like, you're taking them to college? They don't, do they even understand what they're looking at? She says, no, but young people are impressionable at a very young age. So they will remember like, hey, I wanna go here, so I need to work hard right now. And so it was like, we, we have to stop saying our young people are young. If they can remember songs, if they can remember famous dances from TikTok, they can remember the conversation around money. So we gotta have that conversation as early as possible. So that when they get into high school, they are already aware of what's going on with the finances.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  Talking about the stick figures with the partner and the kids and the kids' kids.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  How important is the choosing the right partner? And making money, keeping money, investing money, building money?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  That's the second most important decision of my life.

• 12:42Lewis Howes?

  It's choo- the right partner?

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Choosing the right partner.

• 12:45Lewis Howes?

  The first one is?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  That's just my spiritual, you know, just, you know, being a Christian. That, I think that was the first part, the first and most important part.

• 12:51Lewis Howes?

  And second most is?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Choosing my.

• 12:53Lewis Howes?

  Choosing the right partner.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yep, and choosing the right wife. You, you wanna be real, I'm trying not to get emotional. I had the right wife.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  You did?

• 13:00Speaker 01

  I let her go.

• 13:01Lewis Howes?

  Why?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Cause I was young, I was dumb.

• 13:04Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  I was immature.

• 13:05Lewis Howes?

  Dang.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I was selfish. And.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I didn't. I wa- I thought I wanted something else. But I I let it go.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And so now it's like, okay. Let's let's fix it. Because, you know, hey, you don't want to pass up on that again. I believe that the quality of my future is depending upon the quality of my life. And I I I I had that there. But because of the immaturity, because of the looking at what everyone else had around me.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  I let someone go who could have been my wife.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  And I learned from that. You know, it was a it was a hard season for me because I had to I had. One of the things I've learned that wealthy people do very well is they confess when they're wrong. And they tell themselves, so you messed up. How do we make sure we do not make this decision again? That's when I say, you know what, let me submit myself to a married couple to get wisdom. You know what, let me just talk more to my therapist about this area. So I can make sure that the next time I have the opportunity to meet an amazing woman. That I do not pass up on that again. And so. My my partner is the second most decision. Because this is the woman that will be raising my my daughter.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  This is the woman that be raising my son. This is the woman that together we're going to build an empire. I need the I need a partner that we are aligned, in sync, and we have each other's back.

• 14:52Lewis Howes?

  What would be the three questions you would ask about money? Before you would move forward on a commitment of like dating, maybe you're dating for a few dates, but.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I wouldn't even go, I I I'm not even getting into a committed relationship with the woman until we have a money conversation.

• 15:10Lewis Howes?

  And what should that conversation consist of?

• 15:12Speaker 01

  The very first question is, I'm asking her is, what was the conversation you had about money growing up? You know, what what did your parents teach you about money? And then two, from me, what's your thoughts around ownership? What's your thoughts around debt? And then three, it's a fun one, but it answers a lot of questions. It's gonna answer a lot. You have a million dollars right now. What are you doing with it?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yep, what are you doing with it? And, and a bonus one that I, I really, really, really, I really have this conversation on both sides. What, what do you value most?

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  In life?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Yes. Like what, what's, what's valuable to you? That money cannot buy.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  And it just starts the conversation going. And I think really, understanding the root of the individual really sets you up to understand, okay, how they're gonna be thinking proceeding forward.

• 16:17Lewis Howes?

  What do people in their twenties and thirties have to deal with? If they don't have those conversations in their, you know, middle school teenage years?

• 16:29Speaker 01

  You know, that was me. You know, we're, we're gonna have to deal with the lack of a lot of information that's important. The lack of understanding.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  What I did at eighteen and nineteen, I'm still paying for it today at thirty seven.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Really, still?

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 16:43Lewis Howes?

  What things?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I have collection items on my credit report. You know, every time I bought two homes, you know, over the last three years. I had to explain that. And I'm the money guy.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, Anthony, whoa, wait, this is question, what, what we see is from X amount of years ago.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Because we don't have the conversation. Everyone thinks, well, it'll be off in seven years. Well, here's the thing, when it comes to money, it, it'll be off. Let's say for example, you own that particular collection item. And let's say you sell it to me. Now, I can put it back on their credit report for another seven years. So just because it was a fifteen year old situation that I had, if it got sold to another company, collection agency, it restarts the whole process over again. So I still have some items on my credit report from when I was twenty years old. And that's embarrassing when I go in there. Because no one sat down with me and had the true conversation around what is a credit card? What is interest? What's the difference between a credit card and a debit card? No one sat down and had that conversation with me.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  My mama told me, you don't need a credit card. She just said, "Don't do it." She didn't explain to me why not. No one sat down and had the hard conversation and gave me the education. So without that education, I made poor decisions.

• 18:00Lewis Howes?

  Right, and when a credit card is so easy to open up and everyone's selling them to you and hey, get this, you get a couple hundred dollars free when you open it up.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Easy. Everywhere you go is about credit card. You can't go into the mall without being offered a credit card when you're checking out. You can't even go into Walmart anymore these days, you know, everything's about credit. And again, I'm not knocking people who go down that route. I don't do that route. I actually enjoy the freedom of waking up every single month and having the freedom of saying, you know what? I don't owe anybody. I just owe my mortgage.

• 18:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  I love getting into my car and I have no car note. I love going to the mailbox and excited to go to my mailbox because there may be a check in there, not a bill.

• 18:37Lewis Howes?

  No bills.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  You know, I don't know about you, but I remember every time my cellphone rang, if I didn't recognize the number, I didn't pick it up because those were collection agencies calling me. It feels good when my phone rings, I can, "Hello, what's up?" You know, I'm proud to answer it. And so if we don't give people that proper information, twenty-year-olds now tend to be, tend to build this negative relationship with money and they're not really building wealth. And think about it, if we can start having this education now, we should be seeing more twenty-year-olds being successful. Millionaires are being made now. If you're dropping the course or if you're sitting at home and you're playing video games, people are actually making millions online right now. But if we have the conversation with them now, we can see a lot more younger people really producing income.

• 19:22Lewis Howes?

  What else is keeping most people broke? Is it a mindset? Is it the habits and the actions? Is it the environment, the people they spend time with?

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, it's a network. You know, I have this, it's not my rule, it's a philosophy that I go by. Thirty-three percent, thirty-three percent, thirty-three percent. The first thirty percent of people who are talking into you. So I think a lot of people, especially young people, are not really building wealth because they don't have the right people talking into their lives. Saying, "Hey, here's what you need to be doing. Here's what you should be reading. Here's what you should be investing into." And so if you don't have the right people talking into your life from Wisdom, like I've called you from Wisdom. A lot of different things. We're the same age, but you're wiser than me in certain areas. So, hey Louis, what do you think about this? So they don't have the right people talking into them. Then the next one is who are they doing life with? So if you're dating someone that is all about, hey, I want to go here, I want to do this.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  I don't care if we have the money, let's finance it. And if you're have, if you have friends in your circle that are saying, hey, let's go on this trip for spring break, let's just take our student loan refund check and put it on there. Then that keeps them in a certain bracket. And then they're not really depositing anything into anyone. So for me, when it comes to, you know, the lack of building wealth, who are you around?

• 20:35Lewis Howes?

  So the people that are depositing into you, the people kind of in your same sphere of influence, what decisions are you making together?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  And then are you depositing into someone else?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Are you, are, and, and if you're not, here's the thing, we're just reduplicating it. If you, if you don't have someone depositing into you, if you don't have someone you're doing life with on a healthy way, you can't deposit something positive into them.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  So you have nothing to give.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  You have nothing to teach, nothing to give.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  You're teaching them, you just teach them the wrong things.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  You are an example of what you do consistently every day, year after year, decade after decade, playing the long game of what you can create in the physical world. And I think that's a good representation of what I've learned from you about building wealth over time. It's not about doing it quickly, it's not about trying to find some scheme that you can get into and build this overnight. But it's about doing the consistent integrity things over time. I'm curious, besides the steps, the seven baby steps, what are, what are a few things people can start doing to increase the odds of wealth over time? To increasing the odds, is it something mentally they can do, spiritually they can do? Is there something in their relationships they can do differently to increase the odds?

• 21:55Dave Ramsey?

  Well, I think the first thing is, um, you have to have. We were sitting in one of our leadership team meetings yesterday, as a matter of fact, here in the at Ramsey, and we were looking at a business unit and they kept going, well, we need to do this, we need to do this. And we did not have agreement on the the baseline data of what was actually going on. One person thought one thing was going on, one thought another was going on. And we I said, we got to back up, we got to put data in front of us. And once we all agree on exactly where we are, then we can discuss. Right. Where we're going. And I I think, you know, building wealth or having a a high quality life in any area i- is a little bit like that. You need to back up and say, okay, what are the principles before I worry about the tactics?

• 22:38Dave Ramsey?

  And the principles should lead us to the tactics. And the the five money principles, if we wanted to pull some out, there would be common sense, biblical things that are kind of boring. But if you lay those principles in place, then they'll lead you to the tactics. I mean, here's one, live on less than you make. Right. Now, that sounds kind of almost glib, you know? But the the Bible says the borrower is, I mean, it says, says, a foolish man devours all he has, live on less than you make. Uh, you need to be on a written plan. In anything you're doing, if you don't do it intentionally, it's not going to occur. No one wins anything accidentally. Uh, it's an intentional act.

• 23:20Dave Ramsey?

  Winning always is at marriage, at taking care of your body, building a business, you know, money, no one accidentally gets wealthy. It just, oh, what happened? No one does that. So that's a written plan, that's called a budget. You know, and and so we got to have a budget, we got to live on less than we make. If you get out of debt mathematically, what it does is you have money to invest. Because when you have a $750 payment on your Ford F-150, you got no money. And so that money's going to Ford instead of to you. It's not going in your 401K. And so that's what the borrower is slave to the lender means. But also what happens when you get out of debt is you have this sense of freedom, you

• 24:00Dave Ramsey?

  have this sense of autonomy, the sense of agency, uh, you're not being controlled by the man, uh, stinking Bank of America, it doesn't tell you what to do, Ford Motor Credit doesn't tell you what to do. So you don't have to keep a horrible job, you can move to a better job. Right. And take that risk, but if you got to pay payments, you you don't you don't feel free. And so, you know, being out of debt, living on less than you make, have a written plan, obviously, saving and investing.

• 24:27Dave Ramsey?

  Obviously, in the house of the wise or stores of choice food and oil, grandma said have money saved for a rainy day. We start with an emergency fund and then we long term invest.

• 24:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:36Dave Ramsey?

  In the largest study a millionaire has ever done in North America, we did it here at Ramsey. We discovered that the typical way someone gets their first one to five million is they have a paid off house. And they have a really healthy 401k or Roth IRA combo in good mutual funds. And so they'll be sitting there with a million dollars in their, in their retirement accounts. After 10, 12, 15 years of doing this and they got a half million dollar or $700,000 paid for house. They got a 1.7 million dollar net worth. And so the save money, save money. And the weird thing is that there's no, uh, all the get rich quick stuff on Tik Tok and all that. It is all.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Crypto and.

• 25:16Dave Ramsey?

  Everything, everything. There's always some way. There's, there's a new version of stupid every year, you know? And, uh, but, but.

• 25:23Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 25:23Dave Ramsey?

  Why?

• 25:24Lewis Howes?

  Go ahead.

• 25:24Dave Ramsey?

  No, go ahead.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  Why is that so enticing? Why do so many people jump into that with all their money or all their savings or take out debt? Just to invest in the 17 new things a year that seem like one or two people actually made a few million dollars. But probably end up losing it a year later. Why is that such an enticing thing for people who work so hard at making their money?

• 25:47Dave Ramsey?

  Well, taking the long haul, being the tortoise versus the hare is not human nature.

• 25:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:52Dave Ramsey?

  Our brains are wired by God for efficiency. You know, we, we want to burn the least calories possible to get the job done. Whatever it is, which in the financial world causes us to look at get rich quick. And, and we don't think of it as stupid. I didn't think of it as stupid when I did it in the eighties and. But, you know, I, I started with nothing, had four million dollars worth of real estate, lost everything because I, I borrowed too much money on the real estate and crashed my own life down on my head. I didn't think I was being foolish, foolhardy, impulsive. I thought I was burning the least calories to get to the goal.

• 26:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're being smart.

• 26:30Dave Ramsey?

  I thought, I thought this is the way to go and people that are buying crypto, that's what they think. I mean, no one thinks they're gambling. They don't think, oh, this is has worse odds than a roulette wheel, which it actually did mathematically, you know, but but they didn't think that they thought this is the least calories to burn to get to the goal. So that's just the human brain doing what it's supposed to do. We're just efficiency experts all the time in everything we do. What's the least effort to get to the goal?

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  How often does someone, when they know like, hey, this is a big risk investment? This the chances are of you making, you know, 10x your on your return in one year or six months is so slim, or 100x returns in two years is so slim. But why do people sometimes go all in on the money they have or 90% of their money on things that have a 1% chance of actually getting more than a double return within a year?

• 27:21Dave Ramsey?

  Well, there's two reasons. One is they don't believe there's only a 1% chance. They believe, again, it's the most efficient way to get there. I didn't think that there was a high probability I was going to fail doing nothing down real estate. I did not. It never occurred to me, number one. And then number two, pride comes right before the fall. There's an arrogance. I I was smart. I understood that that debt knocked over some people. I understood that sometimes people got in trouble. But I thought, oh, I can do this. I I'm smart enough.

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  26 years of your wisdom, you could do this.

• 27:56Dave Ramsey?

  That's right, man. After 24 and a half years and a college degree in real estate, by God, I can do this, you know. And there was that in there, that arrogant little twerp, you know, he was there. And so there's a combination of this pride and that then leads you to, again, these principles that lead you to bad tactics or principles that lead you to good tactics.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:16Dave Ramsey?

  And the principle was a bad principle that I was functioning in. And, you know, just put a little icing on the cake of a little pride, a little arrogance that says, oh, yeah, I know, I know that for that guy, but I'm really good at math. And I grew up in the real estate business and I know. I know things, just, just ask me, you know, and, and that you see this, you can actually see that dripping off of some of the stuff that's posted on the get rich quick stuff. Stuff that criticizes you, stuff that criticizes me, stuff that criticizes our friend Craig Rochelle, or whoever, I mean, you can see, anybody that's playing a long game, or you know, Simon Sinek's infinite game, right, anybody's playing a long game, the short-term thinkers all have to pile on, and there's always that dripping arrogance around it.

• 29:00Dave Ramsey?

  I, I could recognize it, because I was the same guy.

• 29:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 29:03Dave Ramsey?

  I did the same, I would have been the guy trashing that guy. I would have been the guy trashing me when I was 26, because I would have been going, no, that doesn't apply to me, yeah, I understand Ramsey, but that's for regular people.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  I'm smarter than that.

• 29:14Dave Ramsey?

  I'm not regular people, you know, so there's that in there. So, we got, we got get out of debt, we've got live on less than you make, we gotta have a budget, we gotta save, and the last one is you need to be outlandishly outrageously generous. And walk around with an open hand.

• 29:28Lewis Howes?

  What does generous mean for people that feel like they're struggling to live their own lifestyle of going out with friends once a week, or having a dinner every couple of weeks, or just doing, you know, some basic activities to enjoy life beyond free activities? How, how does generosity look like for those individuals?

• 29:48Dave Ramsey?

  See, generous is not an action, generous is a character quality. And like integrity, it's a character quality that you choose. You're not born with it. It's not, it's not installed. You have to say, I am a generous person. As a friend, as our friend James Clear says, he says, our habits come from our identity, so change your identity and your habits will follow, right? The whole essence of atomic habits, his bestselling book, and, and it was wonderful material. And so, the, uh, uh, but, but I am a generous person, okay, now, what does that mean? Yeah, there's obviously a money thing. That might mean I give 10% to my church, a tithe. That might mean I pick up the bill at dinner.

• 30:30Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, it might mean I look across the room and someone's wearing military fatigues and I buy their lunch. Uh, it might, or a policeman, or a fireman, or a nurse, you know, I'm in scrubs. I might, uh, that might, it might mean something that simple tactically. But it could mean I just opened the door for something.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a generous heart.

• 30:47Dave Ramsey?

  It could mean, cause here's the thing, we all know the difference in a taker and a giver. We know the difference in selfless versus selfishish. When you hang out with selfishish people, you feel like you need to take a shower when you're done, you know? And when you hang out with selfless people, so I can just decide to do that. I don't have to have a lot of money. Because generous people are highly attractive.

• 31:08Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:09Dave Ramsey?

  Not because they give you stuff, but they're highly attractive because they're, that they, and they're very seldom depressed.

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 31:16Dave Ramsey?

  They're, they almost always have a, an, a positive outlook. They don't have a scarcity mentality. They have an abundance mentality. It, it, and all of this is just a decision. I, I just, I'm gonna, instead of being, but, but what happens is we become overwhelmed with the financial stress. And we turn it in and we became navel gazers, worried about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, cause I gotta take care of me, me, me, me, me. And if I don't take care of me, me, me, me, the lights get cut off.

• 31:42Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:43Dave Ramsey?

  And it doesn't take much margin to push all of that back as a decision and just say, no. I'm gonna leave a tip.

• 31:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 31:54Dave Ramsey?

  That's outlandish. You know, I watched a guy the other day park a Mercedes. He would pull it up in a car. I know the car cause I looked at it one time. It is a hundred and forty thousand dollar car. And he hands the valet five bucks. Like dude, this is Ferris Bueller's Day Out. You just gave a guy five bucks to park a hundred and forty thou- you are out of your mind.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:14Dave Ramsey?

  That's a la- that's a lack of generosity that could really cost you.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 32:18Dave Ramsey?

  I want them taking care of Mr. Ramsey's car.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:21Dave Ramsey?

  Like it's their daughter, you know? That's the tip I wanna leave.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Dave Ramsey?

  For selfish reasons, hello, you know?

• 32:28Lewis Howes?

  Protect your car.

• 32:29Dave Ramsey?

  Exactly.

• 32:30Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, what was the, what was the most generous year you've ever been financially? You don't have to say how much you gave or tied that year, but what was the most you ever? Gave back in one year. Can you remember that year?

• 32:45Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, yeah, it was year before last. Um, cause I had a goal. I, I, I met this, I've been hanging out with these generous guys, these guys that have a lot of money. And gals and trying to learn from them. And one of the things I learned is the intentionality behind their generosity. They're very careful. They, they do large gifts as if they're doing an investment.

• 33:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:03Dave Ramsey?

  They do due diligence.

• 33:04Lewis Howes?

  Can you explain?

• 33:04Dave Ramsey?

  Well, they do due diligence on the organization. You know, if they're wasteful, they're not handling money well. They don't treat their people well behind the scenes. Uh, eighty-nine percent is going to overhead and eleven percent's going to hungry children, then that, you know, this is a problem. That means, I mean, somebody got too nice a car in the pile, right? And so, uh, they're, they, they investigate and go into it. That's one thing they do on large gifts. And, and two, if you've got an organization that's weak and their, their, their money is struggling and you give them too much, you can destroy them.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:34Dave Ramsey?

  Much like a lottery winner.

• 33:36Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:36Dave Ramsey?

  Doesn't have the

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  They're not ready for it mentally or emotionally.

• 33:38Dave Ramsey?

  They don't have the character to carry it.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 33:40Dave Ramsey?

  They don't have the processes and the systems in the organization and the, in, in the nonprofit of the ministry to carry it. And so you can actually, you know, you, you go into a church of thirty people and you tie the million dollars, you can ruin the place.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  So what questions should you ask an organization, a church or a foundation that you want to give a big sum of money to, of money to, what questions should you ask the leaders? To know that they have a mindset capable of managing that much money? Because typically if you come from not having enough, and that's how you've always been, and then all of a sudden you get more, you may not be ready for it.

• 34:17Dave Ramsey?

  Right.

• 34:17Lewis Howes?

  So what questions should we ask before we make those investments? And, and give that generously to know that, okay, this person is actually at the right stage of their life to handle this big lump sum of money.

• 34:29Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  And, and I'm, and all the donors that I'm going to bring them.

• 34:33Dave Ramsey?

  The, um, my daughter Denise runs our family foundation and does all the Ramsey philanthropy and the thing that she and I have agreed on in that is I want her to approach the ministry like we are venture capitalists. And we're going to buy them.

• 34:50Lewis Howes?

  Like looking at their books.

• 34:51Dave Ramsey?

  I'm going to buy them.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Dave Ramsey?

  I'm going to buy them. I want to know how they're running the place. I want to know their HR issues.

• 34:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Dave Ramsey?

  I want to know their, uh, systems and processes for growth. I want to know how they manage things. How chaotic is it? How, is there accounting systems in place?

• 35:09Dave Ramsey?

  I want to know the delivery mechanism of the actual goal of the ministry. Again, feeding hungry kids, how are we feeding hungry kids? What's that look like? What's it cost per kid? How many kids do we feed? And what's our goals? And what's our vision for that? And just like you're buying it. And then you can come alongside them and partner with them. And we're not trying to take them over. We're not trying to run them. Don't want to do that. That's their pro- that's, God gave them that to do, not me, not Denise. But, but we're going to approach it that way as due diligence. And then that gives us a different set of eyes. And here's what's weird. Because we teach leadership and because we run a large business, we actually can help them sometimes. Yeah. By advising them and say, you know what?

• 35:51Dave Ramsey?

  If you would just change that a little bit, then we could change our giving like this. And we're not trying to tell you what to do. We're not trying to bribe you, but we're just trying to come alongside you and love you well. Help you, you know, increase your capacity, increase your efficiency for the goals that God's given you to do here. And, and it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. And so it changes our mindset of just instead of like, we're going to throw some money over the fence, hope it all works out. If we come alongside them as if we're buying them or as if we're a venture capitalist and we're going to partner with them or something like that, then we're going to bring our advice. So obviously then the Ramsey Family Foundation does not give to ministries that borrow money. Obviously. Right, right. That's a deal killer for us. Yeah. That doesn't have to be for everybody, but we teach people not to borrow money.

• 36:35Dave Ramsey?

  Why would we then give money to someone who's borrowing? That's kind of dumb. Right. So we wouldn't do that. So, but back to the other thing. I, my goal was, I saw one guy, he gave away a million dollars in a year. I thought that would be very, very cool. Figure out a way that we, and many years ago, we were able, we were able to do that the first time. Yeah. Many years ago. And, and then I thought, well, what can we do next? I want to give away a million dollars in a day. Wow. And we pulled that off. Come on. We pulled that off. That's inspiring. It included the gifts to our team for Christmas. It included supporting several ministries simultaneously at Christmas. A children's home in the area. It included buying some stuff for this thing and that thing. We did it all, brought everybody under this roof here and did it all. This huge celebration one day, not to point at us.

• 37:19Dave Ramsey?

  But it was, I got to tell you, it was one of the most fun days I've ever had in my life. Because generosity is.

• 37:25Lewis Howes?

  Feels good, too.

• 37:26Dave Ramsey?

  It does. It's a blast. It's the most fun you'll ever have with money.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  Now, you said, I think you said the year before last was the most that you gave.

• 37:34Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, that was that million dollar day.

• 37:36Lewis Howes?

  That was it. Okay, so it was essentially like a year and a month ago or something, right? Is that what it was like?

• 37:41Dave Ramsey?

  I guess, sure.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  Year and a half ago or something like that. I'm curious.

• 37:46Lewis Howes?

  Every, every individual that I've interviewed or talked to, you know, ten plus years my senior.

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  They all talk, who I really admire, they all talk about generosity and giving and making it something you do early on in your life in any way, capacity that you can, and giving more and more, the more you are able to give more. And they say, the thing that always happens is I always make more when I give. Even like a little bit uncomfortably when I give more than I think, ah, can I really do this? The next year always becomes bigger. I'm curious, was the last year one of your biggest years?

• 38:24Dave Ramsey?

  No.

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  No?

• 38:25Dave Ramsey?

  No. But it will be, it will be over a decade.

• 38:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:28Dave Ramsey?

  I mean, because I, I mean, we're being impacted by outside variables like everyone. I mean, we got supply chain is affecting, the economics are affecting, energy costs are affecting, hiring, cost of labor is affecting us, everything's affecting us. So, no, we're, we're actually not up immediately following that. But I am a hundred percent convinced that over a decade, we'll be way up.

• 38:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:49Dave Ramsey?

  Because I've done it before. I've stretched and done it before, done unusual thing, had the celebration with no thought of the return.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 38:56Dave Ramsey?

  You don't, if you do it with a thought of a return, then that's you telling God what to do. That doesn't work. He thinks he's God, so that won't work.

• 39:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:02Dave Ramsey?

  But the, this idea that, that, it, again, generous people are just more fun to do stuff with.

• 39:11Lewis Howes?

  They're more attractive, they're more fun.

• 39:12Dave Ramsey?

  More attractive, and, and you just end up having opportunities come. Let me think about it in a simplistic way. Let's say you were a, a leader in an organization and you had two people working for you vying for a promotion. And obviously, what are we gonna do here? One's the selfish, look like he's weaned on a pickle. You know, and, and, and the other lady is, she's generous and she's kind. She's always doing, she's always stepping outside of her own job description and helping someone else get the project done and not taking credit for it. Who gets the promotion?

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 39:42Dave Ramsey?

  Of course. And it's not because, you know, it's not because you're somehow beholden to her for that. It's just, that's who I want to work with every day.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  People with good attitude, good energy, good effort.

• 39:51Dave Ramsey?

  That's who I want beside me. I don't want Mr. Weaned on a Pickle hanging out. I don't want to hang out with this guy.

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:56Dave Ramsey?

  You know, he's awful. It's awful, you know?

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  What do you think happens to people that never give? That they just earn for themselves, or they keep it in their business and they only put it back in their business, but they don't think about giving outside of the business?

• 40:08Dave Ramsey?

  I think their growth is stunted.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 40:11Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, but you know, it, it, to me, again, it falls in the same category as integrity. What happens to someone who cuts corners? You can, you can win, you can prosper to a degree, but all the data tells us, and, and all the life experience tells us, that the people with fanatical levels of integrity are the ones that do the biggest stuff.

• 40:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:36Dave Ramsey?

  The crooks really don't get ahead at the end of the day. The people that are selfish, they can, they can get some stuff done, but the people that are selfless, they just have a tendency, because people trust them, uh, that trust factor comes in, things move at the speed of trust, as they say, and, uh, all those things come into play and, and you just don't become all you were designed to be. The other thing that happens with generosity is, uh, your creativity increases.

• 41:03Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh, yes.

• 41:04Dave Ramsey?

  Because you're, you're releasing chemicals that you don't release when you're selfish. Your productivity increases, uh, your, the quality of your relationships increase. I was speaking at a little Baptist church in Kentucky one time, beautiful little church, and the guy, many, many years ago. And the old pastor had been there for 40 years, and I did a tithing lesson, hardcore, you know, Baptist tithing lesson, which I love. And, uh, the guy came up afterwards and he goes, well, you left one thing out. Sure Pastor, I mean, you've been doing this longer than me, what did I leave out? He goes, you know, I've been doing this 40 years, I've never had a tithing couple in my church get a divorce. And I went, why? Because the tithe is magical? Because some people think that in Christianity, you know, because I don't think that.

• 41:47Dave Ramsey?

  He said, no, because when you're unselfish with your money, you're unselfish with your wife.

• 41:54Dave Ramsey?

  And you're unselfish with your husband and you serve each other in the marriage if you're serving the community with your giving, it's the same same muscle. And he goes, you're just, you're just easier to stay married to.

• 42:06Lewis Howes?

  When you're, when you're tithing, when you're giving.

• 42:08Dave Ramsey?

  When you're giving, when you make giving a standard part of the rhythm of your life, you build that generosity muscle and it affects every relationship you're in.

• 42:17Lewis Howes?

  That's so true.

• 42:18Dave Ramsey?

  Particularly the key relationship in a marriage. It changes the way you parent.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 42:23Dave Ramsey?

  You know?

• 42:24Lewis Howes?

  Cause if you don't give in one area, if you're saying, I'm gonna hold back my money and I'm gonna keep you here, you're probably not gonna give generously to your spouse or to your kids or to your friends or community, right?

• 42:33Dave Ramsey?

  Because it's a character quality.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 42:35Dave Ramsey?

  You know, it's like the guy that says, ah, well, you know, I hate the IRS, I hate taxes, so I don't really put everything on my tax return.

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 42:43Dave Ramsey?

  Okay, so you're a liar.

• 42:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:45Dave Ramsey?

  You're a cheater. Where are you gonna cheat me?

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  Uh.

• 42:49Dave Ramsey?

  You know what, that's what I start thinking. I don't, I'm not impressed. I pay, I hate taxes, but I pay every stinking penny, not because I believe in taxes and not because I'm scared of the IRS, cause neither one of those things are true, but it's because it, it says something about me.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 43:07Dave Ramsey?

  I gotta look at me and that's, that's an integrity issue. It's a, every penny, every cash sale of a book on the back table goes into the accounting system and we pay freaking taxes on it. I got audited not long ago, I paid precisely zero.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 43:26Dave Ramsey?

  In the audit, we were so stinking clean and, and it's not because I'm scared of those doopers, cause I'm really not, they're a pain in the butt, but I'm not scared of them. It, it's a matter of integrity is integrity is integrity is integrity. Generosity is generosity is generosity is generosity. These things, the stuff, these are character qualities of the successful people that I've met.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's beautiful. Speaking of marriage, um. It seems like money affects marriages a lot. I'm curious what, or it could empower marriages, or could it hurt marriages if not handled properly? I'm curious. If you were to give advice on some, a couple dating for, you know, a few years, looking to get married, what are a few questions they must have and align to about money? That might be uncomfortable to have those questions, but will actually get you clear on, hey, are we the right match?

• 44:18Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Lewis Howes?

  In terms of our money mindset, in terms of what we're going to do with money for the next, and maybe you have this question in the first few months of dating, you don't wait two years. But what are those questions that people should be asking before they align with someone romantically long term?

• 44:32Dave Ramsey?

  Well, there's a couple of things to think, keep in mind, and I'm talking to a young couple about this, and I do often in a marriage seminar or something like that, is our pre-marriage counseling session or something like that. The number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems out there. The stress of money and the arguments over money. Okay? And so if you said the number one cause of death is getting killed by a bear on the way to the mailbox, right? Then you would analyze how not to get killed by a bear on the way to the mailbox.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:07Dave Ramsey?

  Right? And so if you're gonna get married, you should really look at the number one freaking thing. Hello?

• 45:12Lewis Howes?

  This is the number one thing that that either hurts or ends marriages, is what I'm hearing you say.

• 45:16Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah. And the odd thing is, is it's actually circular. It's an infinity loop because it feeds back on itself, meaning that it also, the quality of your marriage is a high data point indicator as to whether or not you build wealth.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Dave Ramsey?

  And so very few people drag a spouse kicking and screaming into millionaire status. You know?

• 45:35Lewis Howes?

  Does, you mean it doesn't happen by accident?

• 45:37Dave Ramsey?

  You know, so I'm, I'm, I'm bringing the princess with me, right? Come on, baby. And I'm put you on my back and we're gonna haul you over there. It doesn't usually work, okay? Or I'm bringing the guy who's, who's lazy and won't work, and I'm gonna outwork him and the lady says, and, and, and he's a little boy and I'm gonna be his mommy, and I'm gonna drag him all the way into millionaire status? Not working, baby.

• 45:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:55Dave Ramsey?

  So it, it goes both directions, but so that, that's thing one. If it's the number one cause, then yeah, it ought to be something really discussed. So preventative maintenance, right?

• 46:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 46:07Dave Ramsey?

  You know, it's a, um. You know, preventative health, if the number one cause of death is obesity, we probably ought to think about obesity, you know?

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious then, what is, what is a, what's a question a woman should ask to her man? You know, within the first few months of dating about money? Where she could get a sense, if he's fully honest and integrity with what he's saying, and not just saying something to make her, you know, feel happy? What is a question she can ask to feel like, okay, this man I'm dating and courting and we're getting into this life with, I feel like I can trust him with money for the future?

• 46:39Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah. Well, money is a reflection of our values. How we handle money, and that's another reason that it's very important. Because if your values are not aligned, you're gonna struggle in any relationship, but certainly in a marriage relationship. And so, you know, talk about the basics of money. Debt? I love debt. I use it all the time. You know, I want zero down everything. I'm gonna buy a zero down truck, I'm gonna buy a zero down stereo, I'm gonna buy a zero down couch, I'm gonna put nothing down on the house. And you hate debt? Okay, we got a problem. We're gonna have to work through this, or we're gonna have to, this is a deal killer. Okay, how about saving? I don't think you ought to save money, you can always, you can always get you something. I always thought you could out-earn your stupidity. I tried that for years, didn't work, you know?

• 47:24Dave Ramsey?

  So, my wife, however, is a natural saver, right? So, when I joined her club is when we started winning.

• 47:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Dave Ramsey?

  You know, so, bless her heart, she didn't know this going in, but it made a hard, hard life for her the first seven years. But the, so, saving and debt, how about generosity? I don't believe you ought to give. If you give, you end up with less. It's mathematically factual.

• 47:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:46Dave Ramsey?

  Which it is, actually. But that's short-term thinking, that's a finite game, instead of an infinite game, again, using Simon's premise on his book. And, so, generosity, the things we just talked about. Now, how about, how about living on, are we gonna live in chaos?

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:01Dave Ramsey?

  Are we gonna live with a plan?

• 48:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wanna live with peace or chaos?

• 48:04Dave Ramsey?

  Are we gonna live with future-minded or YOLO? You know, you only live once. Thank God it's Friday. Living for the weekend. Our marriage theme song is Huey Lewis and the News, right? I mean, come on. Is this us? And if it is, then, you know, because this, what's this tell you? Anyone that lives short-term thinking, we know they're emotionally immature. Yes. Spiritually immature. And so you're marrying someone, or you're dating someone that's emotionally immature, and they're fun. They're always fun. But they're, but it's not fun in the long term, because it brings about stress. The fruit of this is nasty. And so, now, do we have to be perfectly aligned on all those things? No, we just need to understand where the other person stands, and are they so far over away from us that it's a deal killer?

• 48:49Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah. Because my wife is more of a saver than I am by nature. I had, saving for me is an intellectual act, a spiritual act of my will. It is not a natural rhythm. Okay? She naturally saves everything. The leftovers in our refrigerator are grotesque. I mean, it's just, I mean, you know, she saves everything. So, but, so, to the extent that I can stay close to her on that, then we've got harmony. Hmm. We have both, obviously, with what we've been through, agreed, no doubt. Right. We are both have become planners over the 40 years of marriage. I've always been a detailed planner. I had to get her to join me more on that. So, you know, but it's better if you're doing it on the front end than the way we did. It's a lot harder than the way

• 49:31Dave Ramsey?

  we did, about kill each other. So, you want to be in agreement on that. And all the data tells us on marriage and divorce statistics, and we've studied this for years, is number one cause of divorce, money. The other three, if you can be in agreement on them, religion, kids, whether to have them and how to treat them, and how to deal with crazy people in your extended family, your mother-in-law, and your crazy brother, your lazy brother who does cocaine, and whatever it is. How you gonna deal with? How to manage it all, yeah. How to manage boundaries with extended family. And, and, you know, if one of you thinks that children should just be let run wild, and the other one is an over-disciplinarian, we're gonna have a problem, or I want no children, and I want 17, that's gonna be an issue. Or, I don't believe there's a God, and I think anyone who believes there's a

• 50:14Dave Ramsey?

  God's an idiot. Oh, by the way, I think there's a God. Oh, see, this is a problem, because now I'm an idiot. So, there you go. And, and so, these are the things. But if you could agree, because all of these things are representative of your values. And what your beliefs are. So when you can agree on your money, what you've ended up agreeing on is your dreams, your fears, your visions, you're in agreement, you're in alignment on those, not only what they are, but how we're going to go after them then. And now you've got real harmony and you've got a high probability of building wealth. That's the odd part of it. That's the infinity loop how it comes back in on itself.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  Do you think love is enough if you have religion, kids, family boundaries, kind of all in alignment in, in harmony? But money is completely apart, but you love each other. You've been building this life together for a year or two and you're like, should we get married or not? But we are so far apart. One's the fun and undisciplined person. One is the extreme saver and you know, detail oriented plan person is, is love enough to have a successful, long-term, healthy marriage if money is not there?

• 51:19Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, I, I think you've got to be close. You don't have to be exactly aligned, but you gotta be generally think, cause the problem is this. Resentment is going to set in and resentment will kill love. The eye roll. When you roll your eyes,

• 51:36Dave Ramsey?

  that's the beginning of the end.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Right. This is that called the four horsemen?

• 51:40Dave Ramsey?

  Exactly. The four horsemen of the apocalypse. Yeah. Let's, let's parrot teachers about that. And that's some standard John Gottman background and stuff, but that's one of the four, and that's the big one, by the way, of the four is, um, yeah. And, and so, you know, if he won't work,

• 51:57Dave Ramsey?

  he won't keep a job because he just doesn't think that that's that big a deal. It's not, not, not a problem. Eventually you lose respect and the eye rolls.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Dave Ramsey?

  And that's the beginning of the end. That's one of the four, the most, the largest of the four horsemen by far. So if you can't keep, um, now again, my, my wife and I joke about our differences on saving.

• 52:20Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 52:20Dave Ramsey?

  Uh, but they're not that far apart.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 52:23Dave Ramsey?

  I mean, and I, we freely admit hers is a natural rhythm, mine's a built in. I had to decide to do it because I see the benefits of it. So I intellectually will it. Um, it's against my DNA.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  You don't like it?

• 52:34Dave Ramsey?

  Yeah, I, I really don't. I mean, the only reason I save money is so I can give more and have more. Only reason, I don't do it because I get joy out of saving money. Zero.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:43Dave Ramsey?

  You know, but I can give more and I can buy more.

• 52:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Dave Ramsey?

  And those two things bring me joy, so there you go. But, uh, but that, but that, again, that, at least we though are in alignment that saving is important, even if it might be for two different reasons. If I absolutely believe that it was ridiculous to keep any money saved. And she's had to have some money saved to have peace. Because she's constantly in, in anxiety because there's no rainy day fund. Then that's gonna eventually tear up anything you do.

• 53:12Lewis Howes?

  Sure. What's the difference between saving and investing at your kind of scale? Or someone who's, you know, bringing in over a million dollars a year in their business and they've got some extra cash? What is the difference between saving and investing? Is there a difference at that level of like, okay, some money is just saved in a, you know, an account and others are invested in different areas?

• 53:32Dave Ramsey?

  Savings is short-term, investing is long-term.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 53:35Dave Ramsey?

  Pretty simple and you can define what that is, but I generally think three years and less, I'm just saving the money. I'm really not putting it in something that's gonna be going up and down.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 53:43Dave Ramsey?

  Because I, I, I need the money there.

• 53:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:45Dave Ramsey?

  You know, uh, and so I've gotta have the access to it, so it needs to be, it's not gonna earn a lot, but it's stable.

• 53:51Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 53:52Dave Ramsey?

  Investing, I can ride a wave because I'm playing a long game.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  How, what's the percentages of saving, investing that people should be at?

• 53:59Dave Ramsey?

  Well, you should have an emergency fund personally of three to six months of expenses, the standard rainy day fund. Past that, you need to save up and pay cash for whatever you're purchasing. So if you've got a car purchase in your future, uh, Christmas this year's in December, if you didn't know, you gotta get ready for that. And, um, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  I thought it was November.

• 54:16Dave Ramsey?

  They move it occasionally, but just in case, yeah. But just in case, a reminder. And so, uh, you know, you, you, you got, those are savings items and then past that, everything else would go.

• 54:27Lewis Howes?

  Investing.

• 54:28Dave Ramsey?

  To investing, you know, because basically one saving is for protection, the emergency fund and the others for purchases to avoid debt. Paying cash for my car, paying cash for my couch, paying cash for my trip. And those are short-term saving, Christmas, I'm saving, short-term savings items. And then long-term saving items, obviously retirement, kids' college, general wealth building. Beyond that, to do other things. And so then I get into, at our level, now that we make a lot of money, we're a little bit mixed up in that we get so much over in the investing pile. And a lot of it is not for 30 years from now, a lot of it is for six years from now. And so I'll throw money over into a mutual fund until I use it to buy a piece of real estate. Sure. Or something like that, but that's a little different.

• 55:16Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are three things that rich people do differently than the poor people? Or people that aren't thinking about building wealth in that way?

• 55:24Kevin O'Leary?

  Number one, and you'll be surprised to hear me say this, they don't take inordinate risk. You're gonna find that the majority of very wealthy people are extremely conservative in how they invest. They don't need to beat the market, they've already done that, they just need to preserve their capital. So what you find them doing, and I don't know what that number is for you, wealth means different things to different people. But when you are fortunate and you become wealthy, what you'll find is most of those people do not take a lot of risk. And they invest in things that are very long-term, they don't use a lot of debt, in most cases.

• 56:04Kevin O'Leary?

  They don't use leverage when they're investing, they don't take very speculative positions on. You know, you hear that they might buy Bitcoin, or they may, you know, buy a speculative stock. But if you look at it as a percentage of what they're worth, it's nothing.

• 56:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:19Kevin O'Leary?

  And so they're willing, when they're making that investment, they're saying, "I'm willing to lose it, it's entertainment almost for me, it's not something I think that I'm gonna have to live off." And...

• 56:33Kevin O'Leary?

  The other thing I found, because I advise a lot of wealthy people, because my companies that I invest in, of which I have over 30, at any one time, 10% of them are being acquired by a private equity firm or being bought by a strategic. And I've known the entrepreneur, and maybe it's their first liquidity event. I try and help them on that journey. And some of them, you know, get 100 million or 80 million dollars. We've got plenty of situations like that, and they're young. And what happens is, you find out later that entrepreneurs are actually really bad investors. They're very good at running a business, and they focused myopically on that their whole lives. But when they actually get liquidity, it's usually their husband or wife that was the person that was taking care of the family and mitigating the risk. And they're the ones that are the better investor.

• 57:18Kevin O'Leary?

  And that's why I say in a family, you have to have a team approach. But I've learned this, that you really, you'll find that what's successful about families is they know what they're good at, or wealthy people, and they know what they're not good at. And they don't try and do things they don't understand. And this is, it's important, because you have to say, "I have limits on my skills. I know what I'm good at, but I've been very fortunate, and I'm not going to go risk anything now, doing something I don't know." I see that characteristic a lot. And the other thing that I would say is different, and this may have a lot to do with the concept of karma.

• 58:03Kevin O'Leary?

  Another lesson I learned from my mother, that if you're successful and you talk to wealthy people, you'll always find that there's something that motivates them to be philanthropic, to give money to something that matters to them. And that is, that's the whole idea of giving back. You've been successful, and you have to find the cause that motivates you. You're willing to spend your time and money supporting. That is a big difference, because if you believe in karma, and I do, when you do that, it kind of protects you against the horrific downside of something bad happening to you because you're just so greedy. You can't, you can't, when you had success and you're a wealthy person,

• 58:47Kevin O'Leary?

  if you show me a greedy wealthy person, just wait 10 years. Then you'll just show me a person. Somehow karma will separate their money from them. That's what I find.

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  Or they'll get sick, or something will happen where, yeah.

• 59:01Kevin O'Leary?

  I really believe this, I really believe it, and you've got to find those things that you can give back on, that means something to you, but if you abuse karma, it's got a special gift coming for you.

• 59:15Lewis Howes?

  So finding ways to give back, are you giving back in a lot of other ways philanthropically right now as well?

• 59:20Kevin O'Leary?

  Yeah, you know, I like to have a concentrated approach. I call it five in five. I prefer to pick five charities, or in our case, we support a dance company, we support some hospitals, some educational institutions. And, you know, give enough that it's a material gift, and that I have a say in how it's spent very often. And above all, I like to see expense ratios reported. I generally don't support charities that can't provide, just like an investment, some kind of a statement on where my money went.

• 59:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:56Kevin O'Leary?

  And that is actually something I think Bill Gates is famous for early on, saying, "Why can't I treat my charitable investments as I do my private ones, and ask for some performance metrics?" And I kind of believe that he's right.

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's a thing that's smart. And what would you say is one other thing that rich people do differently that poor people don't do?

• 1:00:17Kevin O'Leary?

  This may have a lot to do with, you know, the access to... But in the last five years, I've realized how important food is, and how if you're, you know, you say poor, how you should be, or even you should focus on what you put in your body. Because in our society, we do two things very badly. We eat too much sodium, and we eat too much sugar, white cane sugar. And we have been trained to do that since the 40s by a whole industrial complex that wants to sell us that. And I'm guilty of it, and so is everybody else. Salt and sugar feel good. They're comfort food, snacks and all that. It's the worst thing you could put in your body.

• 1:01:00Kevin O'Leary?

  And I have learned, it's kind of weird, but the older I get and the more I experience this, because I'm actually a classically trained chef in French fusion. I have a job on QVC as chef wonderful. I sell millions of dollars of food and wine each year there. It's because I grew up for a few years in Nampan, Cambodia. And that's at a place where it was a French colonized place. My dad was with the United Nations and the two women that were the housekeepers and the cook used to go to the market. It was on the Mekong River in Nampan and take me with them at four in the morning. And it's very hot there. And so they were classically trained French chefs.

• 1:01:42Kevin O'Leary?

  So in French cooking, particularly if you're a sous chef, which is really hard to get that designation, and I'm pretty proud of what I can do in that area, is you work with a lot of heavy butter and cream. But you can't do that in an environment where it's 110 degrees, 100% humidity every day. You can't eat like that. So what those chefs taught me was how to replace the butter and the cream with things like a mango puree or lime and lemon juice or guava crushed. I mean, all kinds of different flavors. So they would take a classic dish like crepes flambe, which is one of my specialties, or escargot.

• 1:02:26Kevin O'Leary?

  And those are classic French dishes. They're very time consuming to make, particularly escargot, if it's made properly with real shells and real snails. But you don't have to put all that butter in it. You can have, you know, a different flavor set based on using a fusion of citrus. Anyways, the whole idea of eating better for me is part of my DNA and growing up. So now I look at what I eat every day. I used to, when I was young, I'd eat three steaks a week. I used to love that. I don't think I've had a piece of red meat in months. I eat fish, I eat fruit and vegetables. And it's, it really helps you feel better. So if you're asking me what's different. But I'm proud to see that many people are exploring plant-based and.

• 1:03:11Kevin O'Leary?

  Regardless of their of their financial income, meat is actually very expensive and very inefficient. And there's ways to get protein. Now, you don't have to become a vegan. I'm just saying you have to choose to focus on the things that are better for you, regardless of your income, and and you will get more energy, you'll feel better. That kind of thing, that's the difference as well.

• 1:03:30Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful. I love that. I'm curious, do you think the middle class is financially stuck? And if so, what can they do to start achieving more financial freedom?

• 1:03:42Kevin O'Leary?

  You can create a new opportunity for yourself online with virtually no barrier to entry. Many, many people did it as a side hustle, and it's now producing more income than their first job. The whole idea of trying to solve for customer acquisition, using creativity, using video, using music, using photography, using storytelling, animatics, graphics, to actually sell a service or product, starting locally and then expanding. There's millions of new businesses that have been started during the pandemic. We see them every day on Shark Tank, but they are basically taking middle-class people out of middle-class. They're, and I'd say, if you look at Shark Tank, we have plenty of people that have, you know, been working in the middle class for years and all of a sudden exploded to

• 1:04:27Kevin O'Leary?

  the upside with a great service or idea that they did online. And that that's why I I really think people should empower themselves. You can try things online, you can see what works, you don't have to get the first one right. But those tools are there for you.

• 1:04:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Kevin O'Leary?

  And most of this is done on Facebook in geo-locked advertising. Eighty cents on the dollar of what my company spent is on Facebook. So I always find it very funny to see people, you know, bashing Facebook, saying how evil it is, when really it's running small business in America, because they have that unique geo-locking advertising feature. So, you know, we shouldn't shut it down till we find something better.

• 1:05:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And what would you say are a couple of qualities that you really look for when you're when you're looking to invest in someone or when someone has an idea and you, whether you invest them or not, you're like, this person's going to be successful, whether it's in this thing or something else? What are those two or three qualities that all of them seem to have in your mind, whether it be a leadership skill or? Clarity, what would that be?

• 1:05:28Kevin O'Leary?

  I prefer to invest in entrepreneurs that have failed once or twice before, that have felt the sting of failure and have gone down the road and not had success the first time because their motivations are completely different than a more arrogant first-timer that thinks everything they do is going to make a hundred million dollars. It's just not, it doesn't work that way. And so, that's one thing. I love, there's three things you have to have, the ability to do and know if you're going to be successful in business. Number one is, you have to be able to articulate your idea 90 seconds or less, explaining to me why anybody would want that product or service. And if you take more than a minute and a half, you're never going to be successful. You're just not.

• 1:06:09Kevin O'Leary?

  And number two is, you have to be able to explain why you're the right person to execute on that idea. In other words, what is it about you that knows how to take this idea, which good ideas are a dime a dozen? Executional skills are really hard to find. So what is it about you that can execute on this business and make it work? I mean, those two together start to be really interesting because then as an investor looks at it and says, "Well, I'm going to mitigate my risk. I've got a great executional expert here and I've got a great idea." And then lastly, the one that I think you have to have, a good command of, you have to know your numbers. You have to be able to explain gross margins, market share, break-even analysis, how many competitors, how fast can you grow?

• 1:06:52Kevin O'Leary?

  And I think, you know, that's who I want to invest in, someone who has the command of all three of those. That's probably got more than a 50% chance of being successful if they can do that right.

• 1:07:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I love your take on things. I wanted to know, for those that are in their late teens, early twenties, what conversations should they be having with friends or mentors around money? I feel like a lot of people are afraid to talk about it or they don't, they don't share how much they make or how much a home costs or whatever. It's just like this hush-hush mentality.

• 1:07:31Lewis Howes?

  What should we be talking about in our late teens, early twenties, or even thirties? But what types of conversations should we be having to shift the narrative around money? So we can start attracting it in our favor as opposed to rejecting it?

• 1:07:43Kevin O'Leary?

  Well, first of all, we need to teach it in high school. Luckily, here in Florida, it's been put into the curriculum, and I'm very proud of that. You know, I used to be in the educational software business. There's 110,000 school buildings in America, majority of them in New York, and Florida, Texas, and California, and abysmally, most of them don't teach even debt. They don't even teach how to use a credit card, which is ridiculous. We've got to change that, and luckily, we are. We're starting to see it creep into the curriculums in all the major states, which is good. But I think parents have a responsibility to talk about money, which is always sitting at the table every day. It always is. And, you know, getting their kids to understand how a credit card works is very important. And again, I talked about not entitling, and that's important, too. But within your friends, I mean, don't be embarrassed to talk about money.

• 1:08:28Kevin O'Leary?

  You're going to be talking about money for the rest of your life. It's always going to be part. You can't live without it. You have to deal with it. It can cause great joy and give you personal freedom, or can be catastrophic in your life, destroy your happiness completely. Your choice is where does it fit? Do you want it to destroy your life? Or would you prefer that you understand how it works and respect it for what it is and deal with it? That's a personal choice people have to make. And I would say the best way to do that is learn more, talk more about it, and don't be afraid to discuss it. I don't care what age you're at, but certainly at the age of 16, you should be discussing that. And above all, taking 10% of whatever anybody gives you, your grandmother, your birthday gift, whatever it is, and set it aside and start investing it.

• 1:09:13Kevin O'Leary?

  The earlier you start, the less pressure you have when you're in your 60s. Because you've got to have at least a million and a half bucks in the bank, and you can, if you just save $100 a week. That's what Beanstalks is all about. That's why I got involved in Beanstalks. That's the whole idea.

• 1:09:28Lewis Howes?

  And do you think someone in their late 40s and 50s, do you think it's too late for them to start learning about financial literacy if they've struggled in their 20s, 30s, and 40s? Do you think it's too late to start investing and saving? What should people do in their 40s and early 50s?

• 1:09:43Kevin O'Leary?

  No, they should at any age. I mean, the truth is... Changing your spending behavior in your 40s is difficult, but you can do it. And at that age, you should start saving 20 to 25% of what you're taking in, which sounds hard to do, but it isn't. You just stop buying those $5 coffees and you stop buying stuff you don't use. Anybody can go look in their closet and see all the crap they bought that they never used. And basically, you killed that money when you did that. You bought something that you could have had invested, and it could have grown 6% to 8% a year for you, but instead you bought some piece of junk that you're throwing out now. Everybody's guilty of that. I actually think my mother was right. She's always said that people can save 20%, they just don't have the backbone to do it.

• 1:10:28Kevin O'Leary?

  And she did, and she died a very wealthy woman. She had a secret account she kept from both of her husbands. And I was the older brother, I was the executor for the state. And I remember the lawyers calling me up saying, "You gotta come down here. Your mother, your mother had a lot of money." And I always wondered how she did it. She basically bought dividend-paying stocks in her 20s and a whole bunch of telco bonds, 50/50 portfolio. She loved telco bonds, they used to yield 6% in those days. And she loved dividend-paying stocks, S and P stocks. And over the 50 years that she had this account, it just provided massive appreciation.

• 1:11:02Lewis Howes?

  Should people die wealthy or should they die broke because they spent their wealth on charity or giving back or whatever? Living their life and going on trips and adventures? What's your philosophy there?

• 1:11:17Kevin O'Leary?

  You know, the trouble these days is you don't know when you're going to die. You make certain assumptions and then you live an extra 10 years or 20 years. And you live at a time in your life when you really needed that money for your comfort. You know, it's probably better to not make an assumption, "Oh, I think I'm gonna die when I'm 88," because you don't know what technology's gonna provide or what your genes really have in store for you. I would prefer to die with a good chunk of dough in the bank and then gift it to a cat.

• 1:11:46Lewis Howes?

  A cat?

• 1:11:47Kevin O'Leary?

  Yeah, you know, cats only last 14 years, it'd be a great 14 years for them. I'm just kidding. I'd probably give it to a combination of, you know, in my case, I feel safe because I can roll it into a trust that doesn't provide for you after, you know, you finish college. So I don't feel I'm entitling anybody or cursing anybody's future. So I'll just probably roll it into one of my family trusts and say, I don't need it anymore. The only thing I'm taking with me to the afterlife is my watch collection, all of them.

• 1:12:18Kevin O'Leary?

  I'm going to eternity, I got a lot. I don't even say anymore how many I've got. It's, I haven't, you know, really, I'm very proud of my watch collection and it's incredibly, it's got some amazing pieces and it's taken me years to build this collection. And I'm going to need it to tell time in eternity, so I'm taking it all with me.

• 1:12:37Lewis Howes?

  What do you think is the best investment you've ever made in yourself?

• 1:12:41Kevin O'Leary?

  Well, the best investment I ever made in myself was myself. You know, you often doubt yourself, but you know, it was, it was, you know, I went through some very tough times, right from when my mother cut me off through several business ventures I failed in. And then you just don't know, serendipity knocks on the door. The thing is, as an entrepreneur, you've just got to keep getting up every day. You have to stay in the game, you have to stay in the race. It's very, very hard. It's like that story of the guy with his fiancee, you know, you just have to focus. And you have to find somebody that's willing to focus with you. But I'm glad I did what I did. I wouldn't change a thing. I've made plenty of mistakes. But I, it is who I am today and I'm very, you know, proud to be able to offer the things

• 1:13:25Kevin O'Leary?

  I do to my family and to support different initiatives and charities and support the arts and collect watches and guitars and cook and all these things are made available because, you know, I've been able to focus on being successful in business. And that is the great American dream. It's going to remain that way forever. It's the essence of why Shark Tank works. It's, I'm very proud to be part of the platform. I can guarantee you 13 years ago when we started this thing, we had no idea what was going to happen. I mean, it's just... Who knew? But now, nine-year-old girls to 99-year-old men come up to me saying, "Look, let's talk about that deal last week on Shark Tank." And I'm happy to do it.

• 1:14:10Kevin O'Leary?

  I mean, I think it's great and we're proud to do it. And I don't know, that's the whole idea that I encourage people. Don't pursue entrepreneurship out of greed of money. You will fail for sure. Because every time I talk to anybody that's had a big liquidity event, I say, "You know, did you see it coming? And how did it happen?" They said, "We never saw it coming. We were just working one day and then boom, I was poor, now I'm rich." That's always the way it is. It's not that you're saying you're counting your dollars. You don't have any until one day, boom, something happens. And then, the funny thing is, you find yourself right back to work.

• 1:14:48Speaker 00

  I have a brand-new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneymeasbook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

• 1:15:29Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:16:13Lewis Howes?

  And now, it's time to go out there and do something great.