#2376 - Brigham Buhler

Brigham Buhler is the founder of Ways2Well, a functional and regenerative care clinic.https://www.ways2well.com Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Fees may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  What up? What up, dog? How are you?

• 0:14Speaker 02

  We're back.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  We're back again. How many text messages have we been exchanging back and forth where we're like, "What the fuck?"

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Oh, it's nuts. It goes so deep.

• 0:26Joe Rogan?

  It goes so...

• 0:26Speaker 02

  So deep.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  This is, to me, this is one of the most exciting moments in terms of, like, politics, in terms of, like, who's in control. Like, having RFK Jr. at the helm of the HHS and having him, like, really pushing to get peptides through, really pushing to stop all this bullshit that's been going on, and seeing all these fucking roaches coming running out when the lights come on.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:58Joe Rogan?

  It's been crazy.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  It's definitely been crazy. And for anyone who doesn't know my background, because if they haven't heard our previous podcasts, you know, I started out as a drug rep for Eli Lilly, and I did that for three years. So I saw behind the curtain, this was right out of college, and then I was a med device rep, and then I owned labs, blood labs, toxicology labs, pharmacogenetic labs. I tried to go educate clinicians on all this preventative care stuff within the insurance framework, within the system. And I was, I've been blowing, you and I did, I think, the first one four years ago, where I was trying to blow the whistle on, there is a lot of corruption, collusion, and corporate capture throughout every one of these organizations, top to bottom.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  Every alphabet organization, whether we're talking the EPA, the CDC, the NIH, the FDA...

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you see the guy from the CDC that just resigned? The guy who, he has, like, literally a pentagram dog collar thing on his chest. Do you know this guy?

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Oh, I know, I know what you're talking about.

• 2:00Joe Rogan?

  This fucking freak who's upset that they're not giving babies hepatitis B shots?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  I saw, he literally in an interview yesterday said, "His biggest concern is that they're gonna get rid of hepatitis B shots." Children aren't having sex or shooting up drugs. Why do they need a hep B shot?

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  Because they're paying. Because hep B shots are paying.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19Joe Rogan?

  They're paying.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Well, and that's the-

• 2:21Joe Rogan?

  It's money.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  The problem is, as you systematically walk through these systems in the history of each one of these organizations, I can show you time and time again. And I went from, you know, coming on this podcast and trying to educate people on the importance of taking themselves out of that system, doing blood work, getting proactive and predictive, preventing chronic disease. Don't put your hands in the fate of these broken systems. And that led to getting to meet RFK and being a part of the Maha movement, testifying in front of the Senate. And then I've testified at the state level. And Joe, the fucking level of fuckery and shady shit that I've seen now behind the scenes, getting line of sight into the government side?

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Because I was on the outside, in the periphery, somewhat aware of the government stuff. But now, having got behind the curtain?

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Dude, it runs so much deeper and it's so much darker and it's so much more controlled than I ever realized.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's all money, man. And there's so much money. I mean, it has to be one of the biggest industries in the country, right?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Oh, it is. I think HHS, even HHS, which all falls under Secretary Kennedy now, I think is between 70,000 and 80,000 people, right? And so when people are asking, "Why aren't we moving faster? Why aren't we doing this? Why aren't we doing that?" It's like, you're trying to move the Titanic. There's all these divisions within HHS, the CDC, the NIH, the FDA, and it's whack-a-mole. And every day, a new fire pops up. And every day, you've got industry lobbying, politicking, and moving chess pieces to obstruct, delay, deny, depose, and prevent any sort of change. And you've got legacy employees.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  There's literally, there is literally a memo at the NIH that's being circulated around about how to subvert and ignore President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's mandates, which isn't President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's. It's the American people's. Voice. The American people voted for change. We're over the corruption. We're over the collusion. We're over the corporate capture.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  And for most people that I know, this was one of the biggest factors in this administration. Like, voting in Trump. One of the biggest things was getting Kennedy in there.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Same, yeah. I believe that the Maha Moms and this healthcare movement and the frustration with the broken healthcare system was a deciding factor in Trump winning this election. And my fear is if we don't keep the pressure up at these midterms, it doesn't matter Republican or Democrats. Historically, both sides have been corrupted. And both sides have made catastrophic mistakes. And if we walk through like each one of these organizations, like back to the, even the FDA. Okay, so most recently, I'm in Europe and I've got eyes and ears everywhere. Or you tell me where the best place to start is. Because I want to, there's so much ground to cover.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Okay, so Secretary Kennedy set up a meeting for me with the FDA back in January. And he said, "I want you to come with an open mind, open heart. They're gonna do the same. And I want you to just sit down and lay out for these folks what you've seen, what you've experienced, and help them understand what compounders, telemedicine companies, stem cell companies, regenerative medicine practices, cash pay practices across the country are experiencing because of the FDA's choices and decisions made in a vacuum." And so I went to this meeting, flew to DC, sat down with all these folks. They're taking notes. They all seemed really friendly. There was probably eight or nine people in the room. And I left there. And a day later, and everyone's like, "How do you think it went?"

• 6:06Speaker 02

  I said, "They seemed very receptive. Like, everyone was nice, everyone smiled, and everyone was, just seemed friendly." Hand to God, I get a call from a person at the FDA. And they say, "I want you to know, they're gonna smile fuck you." And I said, "What?" And this person said, "They're gonna smile fuck you." And I go, "What do you mean? They're gonna smile to your face, and they're gonna ramrod all the things that you went in to talk to them about." So like, one of the things that I wanted to talk to them about was the GLP-1s. Forget whether good or bad. Let's just shelf that for the moment. GOP ones have their origination at the National Institute for Health.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  Let's explain to people that's Ozempic, Wegovy.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yes, correct.

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  Those weight loss peptides.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  All these blockbuster weight loss peptides.

• 6:55Joe Rogan?

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• 7:39Joe Rogan?

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• 9:37Speaker 02

  But it's bigger than them being a weight loss peptide. They fall under the category of peptides, and it's a slippery slope. Because if we allow the pharmaceutical industry to capture peptides, it will shut down all future innovation of peptides for compounding pharmacies, for telemedicine, for any of these things.

• 9:56Joe Rogan?

  Unless they have patents on it.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Correct. And you and I talked about this the last podcast, and I was spot on. All the things I was telling you, I have now confirmed, having gone to meetings with the FDA. I said in that meeting, and I said, you guys, so what happened is Eli Lilly is now one of the largest makers of this weight loss peptide. It's essentially Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly. They have lobbied hard with the FDA to say, we can meet the needs of the American people. There is no reason why anybody should be compounding any of these peptides. They're dangerous. You guys don't inspect compounding pharmacies. There's no FDA oversight. These products are made in garages, and there's no FDA ingredients in them. They're not the

• 10:41Speaker 02

  same product. X, Y, Z. Just go down the list of all those narratives that they're spinning to the FDA. And when the FDA is only hearing one side of the story, and 60% of their funding comes from industry, what you will see is time and time again, they side with industry. So the FDA defaulted right before, to their generic answer, right before Secretary Ken Kennedy and Donald Trump took control, they expired the exemption that was allowing compounding pharmacies to make cost-effective alternatives that patients could utilize. And this is crucial. The reason that you're seeing side effects, the reason you're seeing this cascade effect of issues is because they are not treating patients with the most efficacious dose for

• 11:26Speaker 02

  that patient. They're treating patients with a dosage that reimburses the highest reimbursement rate on the insurance formulary. And I can prove this. They are overdosing people under, like, literally, they're not taking the time to do the consult to educate the patient on diet, lifestyle, nutrition. There is zero doubt that GLP-1s are overutilized in America. There's zero doubt that they should not be a frontline defense. There is zero doubt that they don't come with some sort of risk factors. But most of those risk factors are found in higher dosages. So why would you start a patient on a higher dosage? Why would you rapidly titrate them up to a higher dosage where you're causing catastrophic muscle loss? It's because it reimburses more. It's not because it's what's better for the patient.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  It's because it's what's better for Wall Street. Jesus Christ. Okay. And then their answer is, "Compounding pharmacies, we titrate at a lower dosage. We're unique to the patient. So what we try to do is start you at a microdose. And then also what we do is compound it and add other peptides." So like, one example of, they're literally working to patent a combination of a GLP-1 and IGF-LR3. We've been making that for five years, like, four years. Say that again. So GLP-1, the weight loss, and IGF, insulin growth factor, LR3, time-released insulin growth factor. And the reason being, IGF preserves lean muscle mass. IGF preserves bone mineral density.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  IGF helps reduce visceral fat. IGF has a cascade of benefits that allow us to microdose a GLP-1 at a much lower dosage where you don't get the muscle wasting. And so this compound in trials right now is showing 20% body fat loss, or 20% loss relative to the GLP-1s, but all of it's body fat. Almost all of it is fat. You're not losing the muscle. And compounders are already making this stuff, right? And so where I'm going with this is Lilly lobbies the FDA and Novo Nordisk, and they say these drugs are dangerous. Let's look into that. Step one. Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk both have warning letters from the FDA for their manufacturing

• 13:39Speaker 02

  facilities. Novo Nordisk was cited as having cat hair and pest activity. I don't know if it's rats, if it's roaches, in their sterile rooms. This is the FDA's own inspection. Eli Lilly has been cited time and time again for his egregious actions, destroying records, hiding clinical data, a barefoot woman in their sterile room. The FDA uncovered all of this through whistleblowers. Furthermore, there's over 2,000 major pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities that have not been investigated in five or more fucking years. And so my message to the FDA was, one, you're wrong.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  You've inspected me three times in 18 months. Two, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk are not making a safer product. They're not at a higher level of manufacturing specs. You guys look at them less often than you do compounders, and they don't make dosages unique to patients. So we're titrating dosages down, allowing patients to optimize the benefits, minimize the side effects, not a one-size-fits-all approach. And then last but not least, it's cash pay. We aren't billing insurance carriers, we aren't billing Medicare/Medicaid, and we're not charging $1,300 a month, average wholesale price. We're able to ship these products for a couple hundred bucks to your doorstep with a nutritional consult.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  And so it's a better mousetrap. And what you'll see time and time again is if industry's getting beat, if big pharma's getting beat, they just change the rules to the game. And so where this is going, though, is so much bigger and grander, Joe. So I asked the FDA, what made you think that this is no longer on a backlogs list? Because it was an emergency backlogs list. So the FDA provides a list every year where they tell compounders, we can't get these drugs, we need you to compound these drugs. Think of it like the bat signal. Bat signal goes off, we jump to it, we start compounding those drugs. The exemption expired under Biden, right before Secretary Kennedy and Trump took control.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  The old regime at the FDA ram-rodded it through. Now it's not exempt. Now 503B pharmacies cannot compound it because they don't make patient specific, which means a lot of those products are no longer available. But they did that decision based off the fact that these crucial diabetic patients would be able to get the drugs they need. This is where the plot thickens. We called over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months. I turned all of this into the FDA. Less than 6% of the lower dosages were available for patients, which meant what? They had to go to the higher dosages, which meant what?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  All of these programs get billed a higher reimbursement rate, a higher billable rate. Eli Lilly and Novo aren't mad that compounders are making the product. They're mad that they're getting exposed for the corruption, collusion, and manipulation of our healthcare institutions time and time again. And it's going to get 10 times worse as I lay this out for you, but I'll pause.

• 16:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so pause right here. So what is the response to this? So you lay out this information. What can be done? And what is the response?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  So they all, they were friendly. They smiled. They were drawing down notes. One of the head clinicians-

• 17:10Joe Rogan?

  Probably drawing dicks. Probably drawing what?

• 17:12Speaker 02

  One of the clinicians from the FDA, candidly, who's never practiced medicine, said, "There's no medical need for peptides in this meeting." And he's like, "But today, we're going to talk mainly about GLP-1s. There's a need for GLP-1s." Okay, I dig in. Where did this guy do his, he is a clinician, but his first stint in politics was in the state of Indiana, in Indianapolis, Eli Lilly's headquarters. I worked for Eli Lilly. Eli Lilly owns the state of Indiana. And they absolutely own the state, or the city of Indianapolis. And this guy did his first stint-

• 17:53Speaker 02

  In politics, under a congressman, congressman, sorry, in the state of Indiana, in Indianapolis. And this congressman has released multiple tweets and messages and attends Eli Lilly factory openings and is a huge proponent of Eli Lilly. And this is just one example of the issues with that system.

• 18:14Joe Rogan?

  It's also the statement that peptides have no medical use when GLP-1s are fucking peptides.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  That's literally what I said. I said, "You do understand that a GLP-1 is a peptide." Insulin is a peptide.

• 18:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  There are over 150 peptides that Big Pharma is attempting to patent right now. Because the future of medicine is peptides. And here's why. We don't, we aren't compounding a drug. We're taking something found naturally in nature, a signaling cell found in your body, just like stem cells, just like amnion, just like all of these crucial building blocks to our health and longevity, that are deficient in our foods, deficient in our diet, deficient in our lifestyle, we don't get enough sun, we have too much screen time, we're inactive, and all of that shit's tanking in our bodies. Shocker, right? And as we age, there's a precipitous decline in peptides, in building blocks. One example, GHK, copper peptide.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  We know we have roughly 30 to 40% of the level of GHK in our bloodstream in our 40s that we had in our teens. Why is that important? It's an important signaling cell that tells your body that you're young. Your cells are young, your skin's elastic, heal this injury, heal this wound, reduce this inflammation, right? It's safe, it's benign, it's found in nature. We're synthesizing that. That's what peptides are. And Big Pharma got beat to the punch by compounding pharmacies. And compounding pharmacies have an array of peptides in their tool belt. And the war on peptides has gone beyond the GLP-1s, and this is what I wanted to explain. So, it's very complicated, I gotta make sure I nail this right, because it's important

• 19:55Speaker 02

  for President Trump to understand this. President Trump... The art of the deal, the master negotiator is attempting to play hardball with Big Pharma. And he is going to negotiate a deal for best in class, but best in the world drug pricing for the American people. And that's very admirable. And I respect the hell out of him for trying to get it done. But the devil is in the details. And my fear is, historically, big government has been co-opted and colluded by Pharma. And when they're not able to pull a lever and move a chess piece, they outmaneuver them. And it's already happening. Eli Lilly's CEO announced he's going to raise the prices of drugs in Europe to offset

• 20:39Speaker 02

  the price reduction in America. But what that really means is, we're not going to get the price concession that Donald Trump, President Trump is working for. Right? Because what he's doing is the same thing we already see with the pharmacy benefit managers that I've explained on this podcast before. The PBMs artificially inflate the price because they get a rebate on the back end from the big pharmaceutical companies that's hidden, that's not disclosed to the public. Then when they negotiate a deal with Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, they tell the government, "We're giving you 30% off. You're giving us 30% off a bullshit price that you created because you set the market." And if we give these people a monopoly, we already know where it goes. We can see it time and time again.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Eli Lilly's price of production on insulin became one-tenth of what it used to be, and they charged 10 times the dollar amount of the retail price of insulin. And I've also, Jamie, on any of this stuff on the Ways to Well website, I did the JRE Experience links again, because I'm referencing so many things that people are going to say, "No way." So Lilly literally-

• 21:48Joe Rogan?

  So go to ways2well.com-

• 21:50Speaker 02

  And there's JRE links. There's a links page where I reference everything I'm talking about. So-

• 21:56Joe Rogan?

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• 23:27Speaker 02

  President Trump is attempting to negotiate these pricing. This is where industry's already moving the needle. That's just one piece of it, though, Joe. Here's where it gets even more fucked up. This is how crazy this shit is. It just happened with thyroid medicines, okay? Animal-derived thyroid has been around since 1890. We have compounded it for over a decade. I have had not one adverse event in a decade, not fucking one. We ship 6,000 bottles of medication a day at my pharmacy, Revive. We have had minimal side effects in literally over a decade. Big Pharma has lobbied the FDA to say, "These thyroid medicines are dangerous.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  We need you to shut down animal-derived thyroids." Why? Because they're attempting to launch a thyroid medicine, and they want the thyroid labeled as a biologic. Why would you label it as a biologic? Because by labeling it as a biologic, you subvert President Trump's mission to reduce the price of a drug. Because it's not a drug. I'm selling you a biologic. So now I can bend you over the barrel and screw you again on the price. Here's where it runs even deeper. This is where it gets crazy. A patent on a drug is usually five years. Do you know what the patent life is on a biologic? 12 fucking years. So Eli Lilly, Novo Nordisk,

• 24:55Speaker 02

  all of these entities are attempting to put pressure on the FDA to reclassify drugs as biologics. They want GLP-1s as biologics. They want HCG as biologics. They want all of these amazing compounds that we've been providing for people for over a decade to all be reclassified as a biologic. And that is the fucking straw that will break the camel's back, the final death blow to telemedicine and compounding pharmacies. Because the third part of the equation is, you cannot compound a biologic. The FDA's stance is, it is illegal for me as a compounding to compound a biologic. So now you give a monopoly to Big Pharma.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  You get rid of all price competition in a market where the president's main goal is to reduce the price of drug costs. If you want to reduce the price of drug costs, the way you do it is through competition. And we saw it with the GLP-1s. The only price concession that any of these motherfuckers have given the American people in the last 20 fucking years is because the pressure of an open market. People quit going and buying these retail drugs at $1,300 a month because they couldn't get the dosage they wanted. They're getting titrated up to these mega dosages that are causing muscle wasting, bone mineral density loss, loss of vision. There's a $2 billion lawsuit against these scumbags right now.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  And I'm sorry, I've bit my tongue historically and tried to be like politically correct to an extent on here, but I can't do it. Like, this is insane. And I go back to if RFK and this administration was not in power, all of this would have just happened. So I texted the secretary and his team, and I said, "I have to ring the bell on something." And I've educated them on what's happening and all the moves that are being made. And the FDA was reviewing in a court document that nobody knew about. This is the problem with having 70,000 employees. There are legacy employees that have tight collusion relationships with industry that have been there 20 fucking years, that they're gonna do what you let them do.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  And their offense is you run the Big Pharma offense. We're gonna obstruct compounders, we're gonna prevent telemedicine, we're gonna push people back to sick care, we're gonna launch drugs into the marketplace. And let's look at the history of safety, Joe. If we look at, again, I'm gonna keep hammering on Lilly. Lilly in a lawsuit against Mochi Health last week at a federal judge is suing Mochi for using GLP-1s for weight loss. And their claim is, "You are violating our patent," which you're not, because it's patient unique. "You are, and it's a peptide which is naturally found in the human body, and you didn't create the peptide, the NIH did, our taxpayer dollars, because we fund the NIH." That's where all of these originated.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Out of the last, there's so much, but out of the last 210 blockbuster drugs, between 2010 and I think 2016, 210 blockbuster drugs. How many of those do you think Big Pharma, started at Big Pharma versus started at the NIH?

• 28:02Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, I would bet most of them started at NIH.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  100% of the compounds that became blockbuster drugs had their roots at the NIH.

• 28:13Joe Rogan?

  So taxpayer-funded, and then these pharmaceutical drug companies get a monopoly on them.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Boom. And then we get rammed in the ass for the next, if they get what they want, next 12 years.

• 28:25Joe Rogan?

  And we fund it.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  100%.

• 28:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  And so the FDA, my argument to the FDA in this-

• 28:30Joe Rogan?

  What a scam.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  It's nuts.

• 28:32Joe Rogan?

  What a scam.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  And my argument to the FDA in this meeting was, these compounds are safe. One, they're safe. They're naturally occurring in nature, they're prescribed under the supervision of a board-certified clinician, they're compounded at a compounding pharmacy that is inspected by the FDA, right? That, "You've inspected me 3 times in 18 months." All of our API and ingredients are sourced from the same exact suppliers as Novo and Lilly and all of the big pharmaceutical cartels. We all buy the ingredients from the same places. The only difference is, and this is what I told Secretary Kennedy and the FDA, the difference between me and Novo and me and Eli Lilly is I actually manufacture and produce my product here on American soil

• 29:16Speaker 02

  and employ over 500 hard-working American people. Ask Big Pharma why they're moving all their facilities to India and Ireland. To escape the scrutiny of the FDA. They don't want you in their factories. They don't want you able to challenge them or stifle their ability to print cash. Right? I can't play by those rules. I can't jockey that. The state of Texas is currently suing Eli Lilly. This came out, Ken Paxton sued Eli Lilly like 3 weeks ago because of fraudulent activity where they were providing kickbacks to providers. And this is important too. If you have a clinician- And you go to your doctor and they will not prescribe you a medication.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  You need to understand, you the patient get to decide where that prescription goes. Not your doctor. That is not your doctor's decision. So when a doctor says, "I'm not gonna let you go to a compounding pharmacy," you need to fire that fucking doctor. That is not their choice. They cannot force you to go pay $1,300 at CVS. That is not their choice. And there are academic institutions like Methodist Hospital that have policies that say, "We're not gonna prescribe compounded medicines on GLP-1s. You've gotta go to the retail drug because we think compounds are dangerous." Where is this coming from? Where, in this court document I was going to that just came out last week, Eli Lilly sued Mochi Health, claiming that they're violating the corporate practice of medicine.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  So they're not just attacking the compounding process. They're also trying to obstruct via the FDA and they're now suing everybody in their mom in this industry who compounds or runs a telemedicine practice. And Lilly is challenging that telemedicine is legal. Eli Lilly is literally challenging that telemedicine is legal. Because one of the ways that so many patients are getting accessibility to cost-effective care is telemedicine. And Lilly thinks if we can shut down the pathway of telemedicine, we can force them to our own company, which Lilly launched their own little telemedicine branch that you can call in. But in the meantime, they're claiming that these companies are violating the corporate practice of medicine.

• 31:25Joe Rogan?

  They just want full monopoly.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  100%.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  So what can be done?

• 31:30Speaker 02

  We're doing it. Candidly, we're doing it. So I leave that first meeting with the FDA. I get that message from this individual at the FDA and I thought, "I'm gonna wait and see. I hope this person's wrong. Let's see what happens." And when we were in Europe, I get a call from another source that said, "Hey, they're doing it. In a court document, the FDA is going to make a stance that says there is no medical necessity for peptides." Which would in effect ban over 50 peptides that have been being compounded. Now, remember, they already put, I think, over a dozen peptides on a bulks list a year ago. That's all separate from the GLP-1. Why did they do that?

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Because of the lobby of Big Pharma. You have people at the FDA who are legacy employees of the FDA, who have legacy relationships with Big Pharma. We've already gone over how many heads of the FDA have gone to work for industry and then come back to work for the FDA and then gone. It's a revolving door. They're swapping spit, they're lobbying together, they're going to dinners together, they're spending time together, and the CEO of Lilly is up Trump's ass. I was with another high, high, high-level person at HHS, and their phone kept ringing. I swear to God, kept ringing, and they looked at their phone and they go, "God, man, these people from Eli Lilly are aggressive."

• 32:56Speaker 02

  And all of this was happening in the dark, and so what we can do is what we're doing. This podcast, getting President Trump's attention, gaining the attention of Secretary Kennedy and the team at the FDA. And Secretary Kennedy and his team are playing whack-a-mole, you know, because you've got to think, it's not just the FDA, it's the CDC, it's the NIH, 80,000 employees, I think they have 200 appointees from the new administration. You're literally, it's like the Spartans versus the Persians. You've got 200 hard hitters trying to fight 80,000 people that have been co-opted. And I'm not there to say all those people are bad. There's a lot of good things that have been done at all of these organizations.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  But there's also a natural innate bias when a big chunk of your funding pivoted in the 90s, where over 60% of the FDA's funding is based off fee schedules. And those fee schedules generate the revenue that create your jobs. And you have an open-door policy to meet with the FDA, but you're not meeting with compounders, and you're not reading the emails from compounders, right? And so, when I told the FDA, "What made you decide this backlog was over?", they said, "Well, industry told us they could meet the need." And I said, "Okay, well, did you see the email I sent you where we contacted over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months and they can't meet the need? Less than 6% of prescriptions were available. They cannot meet the need. They're gonna force people to higher dosages, and it's gonna cause a catastrophic health

• 34:26Speaker 02

  consequence to the American people, and it's gonna bankrupt our systems. Did you not see these emails?" And they just sat there dead quiet. And so, jump forward, I get wind that in a court document, and it's all in, it's all in secret, right? All of this shit happens in the shadows, and then they play dumb. "Oh, we didn't know? What do you mean? We didn't understand? We, we, that's just a court document, Secretary Kennedy." Bullshit. It's a court document that sets precedent, and that precedent says that peptides have no medical necessity, while at the same time you have Big Pharma trying to patent 140 fucking peptides as biologics, that we were already making for the last decade.

• 35:03Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Is it about safety? Is it about safety? Because all of the adverse events that have been reported, almost all of them, a huge majority of the adverse events, which aren't even that many, came from black market peptides. And that's what Lilly's, Lilly in the court case two weeks ago, presented to the judge all the adverse events, and the judge said, "Where are they?" And Lilly said, "Right here in this Reddit forum." I swear to God.

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  And the judge said, "Are you really telling me that your documentation of adverse events is coming from a Reddit forum?"

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  You should send them to the Flat Earth Reddit forum.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Like, let's see what else is going on here. So that's just like a sliver, Joe, like a fucking sliver of what I've been living.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  One of my favorite narratives is that they're trying to do good. That's one of my favorite narratives. One of my favorite narratives, whenever there's any sort of a large-scale government organization, is that we are trying to protect people from harm. They're fucking never, no one is trying to protect you. Everyone at every level of the government, whether it is about climate change, whether it's about geopolitical relationships, whatever the fuck it is, it is all- All about money. There's not a single thing that you could point to. Well, the government really cares here. This is the one. This, this one is a large, a huge corrupted organization that really cares. Like, there's not one.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  And you can historically go back.

• 36:27Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Like, that's where it's like.

• 36:29Joe Rogan?

  It's money.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I know people want to label it as that. If you go back, the FDA's predecessor, I think, was the Food Something Act of 1901. And as they went to try and create this organization, industry assembled. Who's industry? Big Chemical, Big Food, Big Pharma.

• 36:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, Rockefeller literally set the tone for the entire medical establishment in this country by using petroleum-based medicine.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  You got it.

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And people don't know this. Like, most of your medicines in this country are formulated with the use of petroleum. And that is because of Rockefeller.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 37:09Joe Rogan?

  Because he had a monopoly on that.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  And that's why the side effect profile is higher. And that's why peptides don't have any of these things. Again, we're synthesizing short-chain amino acids found in our body that we're deficient in. And so, as we begin to see a precipitous decline in all of these raw elements that allow our bodies to heal and recover, we can bring you back to a state of homeostasis through the utilization of peptides. And Big Pharma is realizing they got beat to the punch. And they're scrambling to capitalize and monopolize this entire sector. And the only way they can do that is to try and horse trade with President Trump and the administration and pretend like they're going to play the game, but they're not going to play the game.

• 37:56Joe Rogan?

  There's no way.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  They're just going to leave the goalposts.

• 37:58Joe Rogan?

  There's no way Trump is aware of all this. This is an ad by BetterHelp. When you have a problem, when you're feeling down, it's nice having someone to turn to. Like a partner who can cheer you up, a friend to vent to, a parent who can give you advice. Even having a nice conversation with a stranger can be uplifting. Whoever you like to turn to though, probably won't have all the answers. That's where therapy comes in. There are some things that you can get from therapy you can't get anywhere else. Like if you're struggling with anxiety or depression, a therapist can help you develop positive coping skills. Or if you're struggling with how to be kinder to yourself, therapy can help you take a step in the right direction.

• 38:43Joe Rogan?

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• 39:26Speaker 02

  Well, he's got too many things he's fighting and that's where I'm trying to ring the bell.

• 39:30Joe Rogan?

  I've talked to him.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:31Joe Rogan?

  There's no way.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:33Joe Rogan?

  With the way that guy's mind works, there's no way he's absorbing all this.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  So the message that Secretary Kennedy gave me, and this is where I'm like, it isn't woo woo, it isn't bullshit. I can tell you, I've texted that guy two times in my life and both times he's called me within 10 minutes. And I texted him, I said, I have an emergency. This is a big deal. I want to make you aware of something that's happening at the FDA. And he called me and said, what's going on? And I laid it out for him and he said, what the fuck are you talking about basically? I had no idea. And it's not, he's, again, he's playing whack a mole. He's got 500 fires. You've got some legacy employee at the FDA that's going to try and make this statement in a court document that's flying under the radar because it's not an overarching policy. Right?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  And then even in the subsequent meetings, so RFK said, give me 10 minutes. 10 minutes later, I'm on calls with the FDA. Then he's like, how soon can you come meet with the FDA again? So we set an emergency conference call. I do a call with the FDA. He said again, his Secretary Kennedy's team said, they're going to approach this with an open mind and an open heart and they're going to have, it's going to be a different tone than the last meeting. And I'm gonna try and attend that call, or have one of my staffers attend that call. Okay. The call went down at like 8:00 in the morning, when he was in Alaska. And then another mole leaked to me. Cause I have moles. I'm playing the game they play now. I'm not gonna fuck around. And my mole called me and said they scheduled the meeting early, cause they knew he'd be in Alaska,

• 41:04Speaker 02

  and they knew he couldn't be on it. And that call did not go well. It was a bunch of legacy FDA employees basically saying, "We're gonna, we're gonna stay the course. We're not opening peptides up to the American people." And so I had to text his team and go, "Hey, the call didn't go well." And then they're like, "Our intel's telling us the same thing." And so he stepped in and said, "This is a mandate. We are not going to dictate to the American people that they can or cannot use preventative care and peptides. This is a mandate. You need to figure this out, and we need to open accessibility, and we need to bring peptides back for the American people through safe, compliant, compounding pharmacies, not black market, which is springing up everywhere.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  We're gonna have another opioid crisis." I explained this to them too. Everywhere, out there, there are peptides that you can buy online now. With no checks and balances, with no FDA inspection, with no validation testing, with no way of telling if there's any contamination, cross-contamination.

• 42:06Joe Rogan?

  Or if they're even real.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:08Joe Rogan?

  I've had people buy ipamorulin online, and you know, that's a peptide that when you do it, it has a very strong reaction, like you feel it in your body.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:17Joe Rogan?

  Like, immediately after, there's nothing. They get nothing. I'm like, "Yeah, it's probably bullshit."

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:22Joe Rogan?

  You're buying bullshit peptides. But the point is like, if Kennedy is not aware of all this, there's no way Trump is.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  He cannot be.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  No, they have too many things they're fighting.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  He's literally involved in... Rwanda, having like, like peace talks with, with, with enemies that have been enemies for 20, 30 years, trying to bring them to the table. All the shit that's going on with Gaza and Palestine and Israel, all the shit that's going on with Ukraine and Russia. Do you think he even understands peptides?

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:55Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at him.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Well, the healthcare system's complicated, it's nuanced, and the challenge is you have some of the best litigators and attorneys in the world on payroll for these big pharmaceutical cartels.

• 43:08Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  And they fund 60% of the FDA. And the history of the FDA is that it, I've, I've said over and over again, it's captured, but the truth is, all of these organizations were born in captivity.

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  They fund the news.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:24Joe Rogan?

  That's the craziest thing.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  Anderson Cooper, brought to you by Pfizer.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Well, they're even doing it right now, making it look like the world's turning. I don't know if you saw Bernie Sanders tweeted, RFK's gotta go, all these people. But the truth is, last week, they announced the approval ratings, and RFK is up 7 points in their approval rate, the highest rating of any elected official. The American people are not turning on RFK. Even the CDC debacle that people are turning into the news is making out to be a debacle. You lost legacy employees. You lost this dude wearing sex gear and shit on covers of magazines, who wants everyone to get Hep B. Nobody's saying you can't vaccinate your kids. Nobody's saying not to.

• 44:04Joe Rogan?

  There's no reason.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  I know, but what, all they're saying right now is, all they're saying right now is, we don't want to keep mandating without science, without evidence. And we want to understand, is there a potential risk of side effects when we hit a child with this many vaccines before the age of 2?

• 44:22Joe Rogan?

  Did you see the conversation that Kennedy had, where he was talking about, they were talking about measles? And he said, "We have had 4 deaths from measles in the last 20 years." Do you know how many cases of autism that we've had? And he rattled off that, like the numbers?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, in California, it's literally 1 in 12 boys now?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:45Joe Rogan?

  Do you know how insane that is?

• 44:46Speaker 02

  He said that at the, at the Texas legislature, when Abbott signed off on the bills that I helped testify for.

• 44:51Joe Rogan?

  But yet, you're having guys like Bernie Sanders, who doesn't know, I, look, listen... I'm an old school Bernie bro. I love Bernie. I love the idea of Bernie.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:00Joe Rogan?

  Bernie doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:02Joe Rogan?

  Bernie didn't know what the fuck he's talking about when it came to climate change.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:05Joe Rogan?

  It's a real thing. Climate change is definitely happening. Like, what are you saying? Like, what does that mean? Has the climate ever been static? Like, when you, like, confront him on the details, he really doesn't know what he's talking about.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  To me, what's frustrating is-

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Their narratives.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Yes, their narratives-

• 45:18Joe Rogan?

  So the narratives is that, "What we've done with vaccines is stop all the diseases." Okay, are you sure? Do you really know that? Have you ever looked at the history of the eradication of diseases and the introduction of sanitation, running water? Have you looked at any of that stuff? Nutrition, vitamins, have you looked at any of that stuff? Do you know anything about polio for real? When I tell people the polio statistic, that 95 to 99% of polio is asymptomatic, it's one of my favorite questions.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:50Joe Rogan?

  I'm like, "What percentage of polio?" You know?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Do you also follow that, so-

• 45:55Joe Rogan?

  The DDT story.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Boom. So, do you know that the CDC- This is, these are, there's so many fucking crazy stories. The CDC was created in World War II to stop the malaria spread. Okay, and the first thing they did was ink a deal with a little chemical company called Monsanto, where they began to dump DDT into all of these countries to try and kill malaria. And they spread a array of health issues that lasted generations and gave immunity and did all these things. That was the foundation of the CDC. And where it gets even crazier is guess how? Nobody talks about this shit. Do you know how the, where the CDC's headquarters is?

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Their headquarters in Atlanta was gifted to them by Coca-Cola. The CDC, to this day, is in a fucking giant building that was given to them by Coca-Cola. And in a FOIA request, there is a fucking email from one of the executives at the CDC, I don't remember, like, the 70s or 80s, where they're literally going back and forth with Coca-Cola and saying they're gonna do all they can to shut down this bad information on sugar.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  It runs so deep. And then you go to the EPA.

• 47:14Joe Rogan?

  What bad information.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  And its relationships with Monsanto. The EPA in a FOIA request. One of the heads of the EPA with regards to glyphosate in disclosure documents. Literally sent an email saying, "If I pull this off for you guys, you owe me a fucking medal." All of this shit's out there. I put all of it on the website. You can go find all of this stuff. It is there. And so systematically, FDA, CDC, EPA, NIH. Every one of these systems have been built, co-opted, corrupted, and developed alongside industry. And even when you talk about chronic disease. So many people. There's a big podcast that dropped that if anyone, it gets into antidepressants.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  And a lot of people don't know this. Because I want to quantify peptides. Because you're gonna have academia go, "Well, the difference is drugs are investigated and peptides aren't, and there's no placebo-controlled, double-blind studies." One, there are. There's a lot. And we can systematically break that down, too. They just haven't gone through an FDA approval process. Because that costs $2 billion.

• 48:22Joe Rogan?

  Two billion dollars?

• 48:23Speaker 02

  $2 billion to bring a drug to market.

• 48:25Joe Rogan?

  What a great way to be a gateway.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Boom. It was established by Big Pharma. Big Pharma told the FDA, "Let's build this model." Right? So then they capture the molecule at the NIH level, bring it to Phase II and III trials, bring it into human trials. The cost of doing that is not what they make it out to be. And then it's a pay-to-play system. And it's an obstructionist system that stifles and prevents innovation. Because if I'm a biotech startup, or a compounding pharmacy, or a stem cell company, or a peptide company, or anybody who wants to get into that space, I am gonna be forced to sell my company at some point to Eli Lilly, or Pfizer, or one of these big conglomerates in order to get it through the FDA approval process. I can't afford $2 billion.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  And so what you've given Big Pharma is the keys to the Ferrari. And they control all the Ferraris that hit the marketplace. But then they co-opt and corrupt the data. So here's an example. When we talk about science, follow the science. Follow the evidence. I worked for Eli Lilly. That was my first job out of college. We sold antipsychotic drug Zyprexa. Patients would come in and doctors would say, "Bring them." "I don't know what's going on, dude. This lady put on 30 fucking pounds in like, literally a month." "This is not good. There's something going on here." And so, when we go back to, the main goal's safety. Where was safety on that drug?

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Out of 12 blockbuster drugs in the last, I think, 15 years of Eli Lilly's history, 10 of them have black box warnings. Black box, the harshest warning you can get. The studies oftentimes don't represent long-term data, and the studies oftentimes aren't looking at all of the multi-faceted aspects of human nature and life, like comorbidities, and what other medications are these people taking? And how do all these impact each other? Average American's on four or more prescription drugs. Alright, so I want to lay out for the antidepressant, because this one's crazy.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Do you, how do you, how do you think we diagnose depression, anxiety, ADHD, any of these mental health disorders? And I'm not, I want to be clear, I'm not saying that these disorders don't exist, and I'm not saying that there is not a medical issue with patients.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's all completely subjective. It's not like a test that they can give you, like, "Do you have syphilis?"

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Correct. There is no blood test.

• 50:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  There is no brain test.

• 50:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  There is no chemical brain test.

• 51:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, let's, let's be really clear. The established criteria, the idea behind it being that there is some sort of a chemical imbalance has been disproven.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Correct. Even in autopsies.

• 51:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not real.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Even in autopsies. That, and you know who perpetuated and created that narrative? Was Big Pharma.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Big Pharma created that narrative, sold that story. It was never a serotonin deficiency. There's zero evidence to show that. So the screening tool we use to tell you if your child has ADHD was developed by a doctor in the 70s, who was a consultant for Ritalin.

• 51:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Now, jump to the 90s. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, everyone's launching antidepressants into the marketplace under the guise that these serotonin, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs, are going to fix your chemical imbalance in your brain. The measuring stick to decide whether you're depressed or not was a questionnaire developed by a consultant for Pfizer. A doctor who worked for Pfizer developed that test. And the goal of the test was to simplify depression so simplistically that any primary care in America could prescribe an antidepressant through a simple questionnaire.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Gotta bet, most people.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  They set the rules, they set the protocols, they set the everything. But there's no quantifiable data that says that that actually is-

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  It's just a questionnaire.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  It's it.

• 52:27Joe Rogan?

  So it's totally subjective. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching your overpriced phone bill, and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com.

• 53:09Joe Rogan?

  The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild? And also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know.

• 53:51Joe Rogan?

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• 54:35Joe Rogan?

  Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. So, what is this questionnaire? Can we take it and find out if I need pills?

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:47Joe Rogan?

  Let's take it right now.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  I can tell you.

• 54:49Joe Rogan?

  Should we take it?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:50Joe Rogan?

  Let's take it. I want to see if I need pills.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Let's see. Hold on. That'd be hilarious.

• 54:56Joe Rogan?

  I've never met a single person that's depressed and has a great life. Is that weird? I've never met a single person that's healthy, has a family, where everyone's doing well. They have a good career that they enjoy.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Well, that's why when, what's that dipshit? Colbert is like, "It's multifaceted in healthcare." Yeah, dumbass, it is.

• 55:14Joe Rogan?

  Who's that?

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Colbert, Colbert Report guy.

• 55:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that guy.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  He just attacked Mahalha a few weeks ago and was like... Yeah, he was saying that to try and go after food and the drug companies is insane. And so if you follow even depression...

• 55:28Joe Rogan?

  He looks super healthy. I'd like to see him in his underwear.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  When, if you follow depression, when did we skyrocket in depression? When did depression skyrocket? It skyrocketed in the 80s. What happened in the 80s? We moved to an ultra-processed food diet. There is more compelling evidence that most depression is tracked back to insulin response and eating ultra-processed foods and sugary foods than any other aspect. We're all gonna go through highs and lows. We're all gonna have tough times. But when we're systematically, chronically inflamed and poisoning our bodies through our food systems...

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  You're exhausted and depressed.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  And it leads to all these, I don't have, I don't have sell in here. I'm trying to see.

• 56:06Joe Rogan?

  I get exhausted and depressed if I eat a bowl of fucking Fruit Loops.

• 56:13Joe Rogan?

  I mean, thi- think about it. As healthy as I am.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Brigham, does this work, do you think?

• 56:18Joe Rogan?

  ADHD self-report scale.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  That's the ADHD one.

• 56:20Joe Rogan?

  Alright, let's try this one, though, because I'm pretty sure I have this. "How often do you have trouble wrapping up the final details of a project once the challenging parts have been done?" Uh, I'm kinda, I don't wanna qualify for that one. Never. I get shit done. Okay.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  One to five, I guess. It's never to very often.

• 56:38Joe Rogan?

  If it's a project, if it's so- I get shit done. Okay. "How often-" but that's just a decision that I've made.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  I know, you gotta give me a score. We have to score you at the end.

• 56:46Joe Rogan?

  Never.

• 56:47Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 56:47Joe Rogan?

  "How often do you have difficulty getting things in order, once you have a task that requires organization?" Oh, yeah, I got- I have a problem getting things in order. Um, often. Let's go with often on that one. "How often do you have a problem remembering appointments or obligations?" Eh, sometimes. Let's say sometimes with that one. Um, when you have- but that's just overwhelming. I'm just overwhelmed with shit going on. "When you have a task that requires a lot of thought, how often do you avoid or delay getting started?" Uh, sometimes. Let's say sometimes. Um, "How often do you fidget or squirm with your hands and feet when you have to sit down for a long time?" Often.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  Um, "How often do you feel overly active and compelled to do things like you were driven by a motor?" Uh, always. Very. "How often do you make careless mistakes when you have to work on a boring or difficult project?"

• 57:44Joe Rogan?

  That's not applicable. I don't have any boring or difficult projects, careless mistakes. Um, what are the- what are the options again? Uh, let's say rarely.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Okay, the depression test is the PHQ9. Sorry, I just got it.

• 57:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but let's just go through this real quick. Uh, "How often do you have difficulty keeping your attention when doing boring, repetitive work?" We did that. Uh, "How- how often do you have difficulty concentrating on what people say to you even when they are speaking to you directly?" Well, it depends on the person. If it's you, no problem at all. But if it's someone who's saying some boring shit, yeah. So, what's the middle one?

• 58:22Speaker 04

  Sometimes.

• 58:23Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes. Let's go with sometimes. Uh, cur- uh, "How often do you misplace or have difficulty finding things at home or work?" Eh, I'd say often with that one. "How often are you distracted by activity or noise around you?" Often. How often do you leave your seat in meetings or other situations where you're expected to remain seated? Never. How often do you feel restless or fidgety? Often. How often do you have difficulty unwinding and relaxing when you have time to yourself? Always. I always have difficulty. What's the most one with that? Very often. Very often. Very often with that.

• 59:04Joe Rogan?

  How often do you find yourself talking too much when you're in social situations? What? Probably, I don't know. What's too much? My social situations are all with professional talkers. That's a weird one.

• 59:20Joe Rogan?

  I don't think I... Well, because I do podcasts a lot, I'm pretty good at like not talking too much. So, what's the options again? Rarely. Let's say rarely because I'm pretty good at that. But it does happen. When you're in a conversation, how often do you find yourself finishing the sentences of people you're talking to before they can finish? Again, depends on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to a fucking moron and they're laying things out to me that are like super obvious, but they're going really slowly, I'm like, "Let's go! Pick it up. Yep, I got it. Got it." So, it depends. Sometimes? What are the options again? Never, rarely, sometimes, often, very often.

• 1:00:00Joe Rogan?

  Rarely. Let's say rarely because I rarely talk to morons. How often do you have difficulty waiting your turn in situations when turn-taking is required? Difficulty? Like, what would I be doing then as turn...? No. No, I don't really have a problem with that. How often do you...

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  You gotta think too, this is, they're asking children this, which is gonna be a lot more impulsive.

• 1:00:21Speaker 04

  This one's for adults.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, this is the adult one, okay.

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  How often do you interrupt others when they're busy? Again, I got a weird life, so that doesn't really come up. I'm not interrupting any, I'm not like showing up at someone's work and interrupting them, so that's never.

• 1:00:37Joe Rogan?

  That's it, okay. Let's find out. Do I have a problem?

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  So, here's where this gets wild though. So now, look back retrospectively. Okay? When I was a lily rep and they're talking about Prozac and we're gonna cure depression, and depression's caused by a serotonin chemical imbalance in the brain, we now know all that's hogwash. We don't really know what was causing the depression, the anxiety, and all these cascade effects. In their own retrospective studies of every SSRI on the market, what we now see is on a 52-point depression scale, SSRIs score 2 points higher than placebo. 2 points higher, it's not statistically relevant. It fails to differentiate statistically from placebo.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  There are 2 things that do differentiate from placebo. Exercise is 5 times more potent than placebo or an antidepressant in studies. Red light therapy is even higher, 2 times higher than any antidepressant that's ever hit the market. But now you've put a person in a chemical straitjacket, where you have wrecked their system. You have now created more harm than good. And so, step 1 in medicine, do no harm, right? Step 1 for the FDA, make sure these drugs are safe. They're not safe. Even, even, there were lawsuits in the early days of suicidal ideation and violent thoughts, because a lot of the pharmaceutical companies tried to hide that they were seeing in trials

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  that children were having suicidal and violent thoughts in the early days of being on SSRIs.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Because it numbs the emotions. It shuts down the emotional response. It damages relationships. These are catastrophic things that you're giving these people, for what?

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  They're also connected to almost every school shooter. Yeah.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  You said it.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that's something that no one wants to say. No one wants to talk about. No one in the news wants to talk about it. You would think that if there's something that correlates, if there's a correlation, if there's like some statistical thing that you can look at and say, wow, this is kind of crazy that this one particular medication is involved in almost every mass shooting.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:50Joe Rogan?

  And when they say, when you say mass shootings, like here's the thing that gets thrown around about when they would talk about like mass shootings. Mass shootings, the problem with the statistics is it connects gangs. You, you have gang, like what happens in Chicago. Every weekend, like last weekend in Chicago, fifty-four people got shot. Well, people say, "Trump is doing a terrible thing, bringing the National Guard." Ask the people of Chicago if that's terrible. If you want this to continue, like, do you have a better solution? If you have a better solution, I'm not in favor of bringing the National Guard into every fucking city and militarizing America. No, I think that's terrible.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  And the argument against guns is that people are getting shot in Chicago. But if you look at the states that have the highest gun violence, it's the states that have the strictest gun laws.

• 1:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Bad guys are still gonna get guns.

• 1:03:39Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And so there's that, that's one. Um, so this is, but when you're talking about school shootings, that's a different thing. So, school shootings get, you, you, you find almost all mentally ill people. And whatever, Phil, we don't, you know, you don't have to politicize it, but it's all mentally ill people who are almost all of them on psychiatric medication. I mean, every single one of them, all the way back to Columbine. But yet, no one brings that up. That seems insane, and that seems completely co-opted. If you have an industry that is literally sponsoring the fucking news on CNN, literally proudly, not even hiding it, right?

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Brought to you, they want everyone to know that they're sponsoring the news. And, you know, the way it's been described to me, uh, God, was it Callie Means? Yeah. Was, was saying, "This is not so that they can sell more drugs on the news." This is so that the news doesn't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies. And they don't, they avoid them, they avoid it like the plague. If there was like a similar situation with any other thing that was not sponsoring the news, like, let's take cannabis. Let's imagine that if cannabis was connected somehow or another to every mass shooting. Do you not think that that would be brought? Like fucking full court press in the front page of the New York Post and the New York Times and

• 1:05:05Joe Rogan?

  all over CNN and MSNBC, they would start talking about it. If it was some masculine thing, like if it was testosterone. It was like testosterone therapy. So testosterone replacement therapy is involved in 100% of school shooters. Jesus Christ.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  They would be feminizing the world. You boys need to eat more soy. You need to get tofu into schools. You know, we need, right? We need to stop weightlifting. No more weightlifting. No more cold plunges because they increase testosterone as well. No more, you know, no more fucking going outside in the sun. Sunlight gives you vitamin D. Vitamin D increases testosterone. Get out of the sun.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Joe Rogan?

  It's causing mass shootings.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  There's a ton of stuff correlating lack of vitamin D to depression.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  I mean, there's, it's all of these different things.

• 1:05:53Joe Rogan?

  It's terrible for your immune system.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  If you have a low level of vitamin D, you're chronically susceptible to all kinds of pathogens. Your immune system fucking sucks.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  And the challenge is that same level of money and power that they're feeding to the media is also happening in politics. So like testifying here at the state level on these Maha bills. Three bills got passed in the state of Texas, Joe. I don't know if you've been following all that. Um, but these bills. I mean, you would think. You would think we were asking to like, I don't even know. Like the level of fuckery that went down with these bills was crazy. So first off, industry didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell that we were going to get Maha bills passed in the state of Texas because it's so Republican intensive. And a lot of these politicians have, you know, relationships and ties with industry.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Uh, and we're an industry forward state and we always want to be an industry forward state. But we can make money without killing people. And we can make money without chronically and systematically poisoning people.

• 1:06:57Joe Rogan?

  You just can't make the most money. That's the problem with all that. It's not making money. It's making the most money. And, you know, we've talked about this a bunch of times, but it's a real issue. I'm in favor of capitalism. I think it's awesome. I think communism sucks. I think, you know, socialism is, it's contrary to human behavior characteristics that we're all aware of. Right? I think we'd all agree on that. However, when you have a system that's set up where it has to make more money all the time, there's only one way to do that. You have to abandon ethics and morals or Co-op the fucking law, co-op the rules, co-op the regulations, make sure that you can continue to make more money whenever possible.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  And you're nailed it. That's, Big Pharma's not really worried that compounders are gonna take away their profits. They're going to hurt their, their marketing on Wall Street, their shareholder pricing, right? If, if, if there's competition, if they can shut down all competition and have a monopoly for 12 years on a compound, what does that mean for their shareholder price?

• 1:07:57Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  How much can they skyrocket that stock price?

• 1:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, and that's what it's all about. And this is why people need mushrooms. For real. I'm not kidding. I'm, I'm not kidding, cuz there's, there's gonna come a point in time where people realize like, there's gotta be a way to abandon this ridiculous mindset that our country has been entrapped by.

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and in, in the state of Texas, how progressive is it that Texas passed that Ibergaine bill?

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. Well, kudos to Rick Perry, because him as a Republican former governor championing this is so huge, because it, he has so many alliances with so many different people, they'll go, oh god, if Rick Perry is saying this. And then on top of that, it's veterans that are being positively affected by this compound, by, by Ibergaine, by this psychedelic. And to deny veterans is very un-American, right? So if you're a Republican, good luck. If you're, if you're doing something that fucks over veterans and they organize against you, or people that support veterans organize against you, and not just veterans, anybody who's experienced violent crime,

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  anybody's experienced horrific things in their life, drug addicts, all these different things that can be fixed with this one thing.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  And the success rate is so staggering high.

• 1:09:16Joe Rogan?

  So for, let's, let's talk about that. So for addiction, the success rate is, with one experience, it's 83% successful. These people never do heroin again, they never take opiates again, they stop drinking, they stop smoking cigarettes, whatever the fuck it is, with two experiences, it's in the 90s. It's something like 94%. Four percent, that's insane. There's not a thing like that.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Joe Rogan?

  That's available. There's not, a rehab would go out of business. With rehabs, if you know anybody who's been to rehab, very rarely does someone go to rehab once.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, the most successful, uh, former alcoholic that I knew, he never went to rehab. He never did anything. He never went to a 12-step program. He crashed his car under a bridge. He got chased by the cops. He got arrested. He's like, "Fuck, I'm, I'm done." And he just quit. He just quit. And he was a lifelong alcoholic.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's so nuts.

• 1:10:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, it doesn't work.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  Psychedelics have such a huge place. And to me, all of this.

• 1:10:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  All of this falls under one giant overarching theme. Medical right to choose. It's, I, I don't think that the federal government should be shutting down people's ability, especially with compassionate use, like somebody who's terminally ill or who has nothing to lose. Why would you stop them from using peptides? Why would you stop them from using stem cells? Why would you stop them from using psychedelics? I, I asked, um...

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Of course, but that's just, I mean, let's not wait until they're almost dead.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, we could get, exactly.

• 1:10:50Joe Rogan?

  For terminally ill people, let's not wait for that.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  And the data on mushrooms and psilocybin and its effects on depression, astronomically show more compelling data than anything you're gonna see in an SSRI or antidepressant study.

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it doesn't kill you at all. It like, literally doesn't kill you. Like, the LD-50 for mushrooms, you physically can't consume enough to kill half the population.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, LD-50, for people who don't know. The lethal, lethal dose, uh, 50% of the people that test. So, you know, like, if you give strychnine to 100 people, pretty much 100 people are gonna die.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  And that's where I'm excited, cause I, I do know, and then Secretary Kennedy did say, "Please resonate for me", that I believe in Americans' right to choose and control their healthcare journey. And I am a proponent of peptides, stem cells, hyperbaric, uh...

• 1:11:38Joe Rogan?

  And this is why I see all these fucking political hacks that are online saying he's dangerous.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Joe Rogan?

  This is why all these people are like tweeting and retweeting this stuff and thinking they're... Some of them, I think, thinking they're being a good person. Some of them are classically educated, you know, and they, they really don't pay attention to anything outside of mainstream news. And they're, they're lost. And they think that they're doing the right thing while also playing ball.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Did you see Huberman on Bill Maher?

• 1:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I did.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did you see where Bill Maher asked him, I think about 20% of what most, he, this is Bill Maher saying, he thinks about, most Americans think 90% of what we're told in healthcare is right. Bill says, I think it's about 20. And he looks at Huberman and says, what do you think? And he said 10. And then he talked about his buddy, who's a high professor at Stanford, said at least, at minimal 60% of what we've been taught is wrong.

• 1:12:29Joe Rogan?

  That's insane.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And the problem is also textbooks don't get updated. They don't get updated to, there's always new studies that come out. There's always new information that comes out. If you read a textbook three years ago, like that thing is probably not good anymore when it comes in, in certain disciplines.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  Well, and look at all the botched studies. Like you and I've covered testosterone and how that was a study in the 1930s that was debunked. Then you had the Women's Health Initiative, which scared the hell out of women from estrogen and hormone replacement therapy, which led to them now getting on products that cause a cascade effect of other health issues. Even if you look at, we covered depression, but now go to statins. Guess who created the screening tools?

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  Yes. And who raised the threshold.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  It was all big pharma. And then you go to osteoporosis and osteopenia. Nine out of the 10 folks who decided that were consultants for industry. Industry, including Merck, who made Fosamax, which was an osteoporosis medication. Over and over and over again. We can systematically go through every element of healthcare and break down how that system was captured and corrupted. And I'm not saying doctors are bad. Doctors are doing their best to navigate a system. They're being taught in school, systems that were built in this ecosystem. And they look at it and go, there's even another person at the FDA that in a blog that

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  they do, talked about how basically preventative care is bullshit. And that the only way is medicine. And I'm like, if these are the people that are going to be controlling our accessibility and our healthcare system, it's terrifying.

• 1:14:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's Peter Hottas. Right? Like if you, you follow him online and I'm not picking on Peter, but

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  You should.

• 1:14:16Joe Rogan?

  He, I, you know.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  He says you're a bully, but then he tweeted when.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  You said I'm a bully?

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  He said that stuff on X and stuff in the past.

• 1:14:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, because I was trying to get him to have a debate.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then he tweeted, he tweeted after we testified, a, a image of, uh, like a 1950's Batman characters. It was like, this is who they bring in front of Congress to testify. And I saw that and I'm like, like all the Joker and the Penguin and all this and I'm like.

• 1:14:43Joe Rogan?

  He tweeted that?

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was thinking, you're the one that looks like the Penguin. What are you talking about? I'm not taking healthcare advice from you.

• 1:14:49Joe Rogan?

  So, I, when I exposed him on the show, when I had that conversation with him about his own personal health, that was probably the most telling thing that he's ever been involved with. Because people got a chance to see, oh, these are the people that are telling you, you have to take this medication. People that eat junk food, that don't work out, that are overweight, and, you know, generally unhealthy. Don't take vitamins.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  You're.

• 1:15:15Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  It's funny, you just triggered this thought. When I was testifying, it's exactly what you're talking about. When I was testifying at the state level, okay, to remove ultra-processed foods and cokes and soft drinks

• 1:17:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  from food stamps. Because

• 1:17:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  a large percentage of the money of our food stamps are spent on ultra-processed foods that are poisoning systematically these poverty-stricken communities.

• 1:17:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  We're just trying to reallocate the resources and and change school lunches and mandate PE and mandate nutritional training and mandate that your doctor has to have nutritional training and mandate that in elementary school through junior high, you get nutritional training. That's what these bills were about. Okay, while I'm in the middle of trying to explain to congressmen and congresswomen how detrimental a soft drink is, because they don't, they don't know. I'm trying to just say, look, the difference between a very chronically ill diabetic patient and a healthy patient is literally about a teaspoon of sugar in the bloodstream. Do you know how many teaspoons of sugar are in a Coke? And as I'm in the middle of trying to say it,

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  one of the congresswomen holds her Coke up in the microphone.

• 1:18:04Joe Rogan?

  For effect?

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  And drinks her Coke.

• 1:18:06Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  And I'm, and everyone just busts out laughing. But I'm like, okay, well, the answer is eight to 12 teaspoons of sugar. And you're giving it to a child. You're giving a child eight to 12 teaspoons of sugar at a time. And then you're wondering why our children are obese. You're wondering why over 70% of Americans are obese. You're wondering why diabetes is at an all-time high.

• 1:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Or why they failed the DHD test that I took.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Joe Rogan?

  Did I fail?

• 1:18:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, you didn't fail, but you do have a, you need to be checked out a little, little further.

• 1:18:40Joe Rogan?

  There you go. Now imagine if I had a job that sucked.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  So if I had a job that sucked, I bet I would have answered very often to most of the ones I was like, nah, those don't apply.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  So then I would need ADHD medication.

• 1:18:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  I told you this on the very first podcast. I'm not splitting atoms on the weekends, man. I failed kindergarten. I'm literally dyslexic. I'm ADHD. They wanted me on Ritalin. My parents were like, we don't want to put him on Ritalin. They said, he's got to go to pre first. I was in a class with kids with helmets, dude. Like, I kid you not. I didn't go to first grade. I went to pre first. They thought I was mentally handicapped. And I'm like, sitting in there like, oh, man, this sucks. I remember to this day, I was like, I don't belong in here.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  Like, but I just didn't fit in that ecosystem. I was, I'm sure I was hyper. I'm a fucking kid. Of course, I'm hyper now and I'm a grown man. I can't sit still.

• 1:19:34Joe Rogan?

  You know, I have a new puppy. And when you have a puppy, you realize like, oh, this is what kids are like. Like, this puppy is insane. So I have Marshall, who's out here today. So Marshall's almost nine, and Marshall's really chill. I mean, he's got plenty of energy, super healthy, runs around, gets a lot of exercise in. But this fucking puppy is off the rails. This, I have videos of them playing, like Marshall will pick up a toy and then like Charlie would come over and try to grab the toy. He's leaping at him, throwing himself through the air, diving underneath him, biting his face, the rolling around. He's insane. He can't sit down. And then he crashes, then he wakes up, he pisses and shits, and then he wants to eat, and then he wants to go at it again.

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Take that, stick it in a classroom.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's what you're doing with kids. Kids are basically human puppies, and we're making them sit in these fucking classes. And some of them, guess what, have more fucking energy than the other ones. And they're more active, and they're more physical, just like dogs, just like every other animal, every other organism. And those ones will probably do great things if they find something that interests them because they have more energy. And because they can, they can dis- They can blow off all the shit that doesn't mean anything to them. Which is like, a lot of the obligations weigh you down and take away your effectiveness is the thing that you actually enjoy. If you have a bunch of things that you're concentrating all of your time on that are basically bullshit. The thing that's really important to you, you don't have any, you don't have any resources to allocate to fix that thing.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  So you're gonna be less effective at it. Whereas a retard like me can just fucking laser beam on things. And I could just, I could just ignore every, I'll throw my clothes on the ground. I don't give a fuck dude, I could live in a cave and I could, I could just like lock down. But, but that's how you succeed at things.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  I would have to hyper-focus. Like, and if, if it's something I'm interested in, it's easy. I can hyper-focus, I can retain, I have good data recall.

• 1:21:33Joe Rogan?

  If it's something you're interested in.

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  If it's like Ferris Buhler's Day Off and it's some mundane.

• 1:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Buhler.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  And it's torture, man. And I can't sit still in this environment.

• 1:21:44Joe Rogan?

  But that's why you're successful. This is what people don't understand. That's a superpower.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  But I know for sure, I would have anxiety if I didn't work out. I have anxiety. Like when we were in Europe and I didn't work out. Day three, I'm like restless, man. And that anxiousness comes out.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  To me, that's like going somewhere and not eating. I'm not gonna do that either.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, if I go on vacation, I literally bring kettlebells. I have two seventies and two fifties. They travel with me.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  You put them in a suitcase?

• 1:22:12Joe Rogan?

  I get them there. I ship, ship them to where I'm going. I have them delivered. I don't give a fuck dude, I'm working out. Because I'm, I, I have a problem.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  Sam said he did that with that rock. Did he tell, I swear he told me a story. He fucking packed that rock that he has people carry.

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  Cam did that?

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, for something. I remember him telling that story and I think I got lost.

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  He keeps that rock on the mountain. And I'm like, don't you worry, someone's gonna be a fan of taking it. It's like, no. The kind of person who would take, it's too much of a pussy to carry it.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that's funny.

• 1:22:42Joe Rogan?

  It's so hilarious this fucking rock that he carries everywhere. But, but you know, you have to stay healthy. And for me, that's my medicine. I'm not, if I was a diabetic and I would say, "I'm not taking any insulin." Well, guess what? You're a type 1 diabetic. If you don't take insulin, you're gonna fucking die. Unfortunately, you've got bad genes when it comes to the creation of insulin. That's how I am with exercise, man. Like, I'm doing it. If I take a day off, I'm a maniac. I don't like it. I don't like that feeling. I mean, I can take a day off. I can relax. But day two? Day two is like, but it's also that my brain is like, "Hey, what are you doing? You gonna be a lazy fuck now? Is that what you're doing? You gonna be a fat pussy?"

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  But just that hyper-focus and going through a workout and then you come out the other end and it's mental. It's a huge mental relief.

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  Gigantic.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  And my anxiety goes from an 8, it's creeping up, now it's an 8. And then I go work out and it'll be at a 2.

• 1:23:35Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. It's good for everybody. Listen, the nicest people that I know do jujitsu. And I know that sounds crazy. The nicest people that I know are like regularly yanking on people's elbow joints and fucking tackling them. Then they're the nicest people I know. And the reason why they're nice is because they take their fucking medicine. They take their anti-aggressive medicine. And the idea that that somehow is bad and like what we need to do is eliminate all masculinity. No, you need to harness it, just like everything else. I mean, this is just like the same response that we had to nuclear power. "Oh, we have Three Mile Island, stop the nukes! No more nukes! We've got a problem! Now figure out how to harness it!" We were really bad at gasoline in the 70s.

• 1:24:20Joe Rogan?

  We would put fucking lead in it. And that's why everybody got lead poisoning. And then we had to come up with unleaded gasoline, which is just, "Don't add lead to it, you fucking assholes! Don't burn lead and blast it through the air everywhere you go. That seems fucking insane." Well, we had to figure out how to harness it, just like we have to figure out how to harness masculinity.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  I think we're gonna, you brought up lead and I wanted to get into the, one, the state of Texas stuff, which parallels and runs into the glyphosate shit. If you want to talk about that, do you want?

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  I would love to talk about that.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Cause one of the things that's happening-

• 1:24:55Joe Rogan?

  Cause I know that they've got an alternative to glyphosate that's even worse.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, they do. And so, one of the things that's happening is- At the federal level, they are looking to give big ag and big chemical immunity on all these chemicals they're spraying on our food. And they're voting in secret. This is another fuckery moment. As part of one of the bills that's being reviewed by Congress, they are attempting to vote in secrecy where we don't know who cast their vote to cast unified immunity on any future lawsuit against glyphosate or atrazine.

• 1:25:33Joe Rogan?

  And we know how well that worked for vaccine manufacturers, so maybe we should try it.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And we do know, uh, let's, let's point this out, that the company Monsanto that manufactures glyphosate is the same company that created Agent Orange, is the same company that created DDT, is the same company that with Bayer, tested their products on Nazi concentration camp victims, is the same company that pushed product in the third world nations where they didn't have checks and balances and couldn't come after them.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  So let's just stop right there. If Satan was the CEO, don't you think he'd be the head of that company?

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  Oh my god, dude.

• 1:26:08Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine, but if, like you said, well, there's a company in the world where Satan's the CEO, what, what company do you think that would be? And then you had all this evidence, you lay it out, you're like, oh my god, Satan's alive, he's real. He's killing people with Agent Orange.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And what's crazy is in Europe, they're, in, in Europe, the allowable amount of glyphosate is literally almost one-fourth of what they're allowing in the United States. And so, the farmers and the lobbyist groups here in the state of Texas, when we tried to pass this food bill, okay, we shocked industry. Because candidly, it was the land of misfit toys. It's literally me, and I don't mean that derogatory, but it's like, it's just a bunch of average Joes testifying against lobbyists. And so, it was me, an 18-year-old girl named Grace, who's a food advocate, my buddy Jason Karp, who owns like a food company, and then Dr.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  Hyman in the initial, uh, testimonies.

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  Hold up. There's an 18-year-old girl that's testifying.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:09Joe Rogan?

  She's a food expert.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  She's a food advocate because she has been able to cure, I don't know her exact story, but her, she's brilliant.

• 1:27:18Joe Rogan?

  So she's the Greta Thunberg of food?

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, pretty much. But she had a his-

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  She's the polar opposite of her.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  But she's a brilliant girl because she was able to cure some of her chronic illness through no longer eating ultra-processed foods. And so now she's become an advocate for these things.

• 1:27:33Joe Rogan?

  What do you, do you know what illnesses she had?

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  I don't remember. I don't want to say. Her name's Grace Price, if you want to-

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  And she's only 18. That's kind of crazy.

• 1:27:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. She's brilliant. She killed it. But here's what happens.

• 1:27:43Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  We go to testify. Who shows up? You expose this. I think I texted you about it, and then you talked about it on the podcast. The American Heart Association came to testify against us because they didn't want Coke and Twinkies and soft drinks and ultra-processed foods removed from school lunches, SNAP programs.

• 1:28:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, thank God they're around to set everybody on the right path. Thank God the American Heart Association is there to stand up for Twinkies and Coca-Cola. Which, by the way, I enjoy. I mean, if I could just have a day where I didn't think about my health at all, I would love a nice glass of Coca-Cola with a few Twinkies.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  They're fucking delicious. But I know if I did that, an hour later, I would want to die. I would feel so bad. And when I do that now, this is the thing that I, every now and then, I will fuck off and like eat an ice cream sundae, and I feel so bad that I go, how many people feel like this all the time?

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:28:41Joe Rogan?

  How many, how many people, this is their default state? And then you add it to a non-robust body. So you add it to a body that's been sedentary, been eating this stuff forever, so you have this constant cascading effect of inflammation, you're fat, your, your back hurts, your head, you got brain fog. All day long, you're dealing with this, and that's your default. So what, what happens to me, for a very brief amount of time, where if I- Drink a milkshake, I'm like, oh, I feel like shit. That's their whole life.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're describing my dad. My dad is in that system where he literally just I love him, but he believes in all this bullshit that he's told, he goes to the doctor and they say, you know, historically, this is when he was younger. He'd be on four or five meds and they go, oh, everything's good, everything checked out good. And he'd come back and go, yeah, doctor said everything's good. You're on six meds, dude. What do you mean everything's good? You're on six fucking medications. My dad is now on 12 prescription medications and ended up in the hospital last weekend because of contraindications in the drugs. The third leading cause of death in America is medical misdiagnosis. And like, dad, come in, we can do a full workup. We can do all these things.

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Yo, he won't fucking listen.

• 1:29:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. My, I, my parents take vitamins now, finally.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  And it's like, ah, dude.

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird, man. People don't want to listen to their kids and they don't want to change the path that they're on. Cause then they have to admit their whole life has been kind of stupid. People don't want to admit that. They don't want to admit that they're a buffoon. People are so, they cling so hard to their identity of being correct.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's too much of what you think of when you think of yourself as your choices and the way you think about things.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  And that's where industry's done a killer job, though, Joe.

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  I know, but for people that are listening to this, if you find yourself in that little category, really, that's the weakness. The weakness is not in admitting that you're admitting you're wrong exposes that you are wrong and that's weakness. No. The real weakness is not being able to admit that you're wrong. That's the real weakness because then you'll, look, everybody's wrong sometimes. Everybody does something wrong sometimes. It's part of being a human. Our brains are, it depends entirely on the interactions that you've had the day, how much taxes you owe that you don't think you're gonna be able to pay, your credit card statements, your fucking buh buh buh, your wife hates you, you think your friend might be fucking doing Something shady in this business deal that you guys got together.

• 1:31:15Joe Rogan?

  You're all fucking stressed out all the time. That's most of us. People in these conditions are going to make mistakes. You're going to not look at data that you assumed was correct. And you're going to argue for something that was wrong. And this, we found this a lot during the COVID days. It was really hard for people that got shitty with me to come around and admit like, oh, you kind of had a point. There's a few of them that I lost forever and that have never admitted that they were wrong. Never admitted that this whole thing was like they get caught up in a psyop. But that's weak.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  You've referred me, not just you, just, just in general, people hearing this. But we have helped so many fucking people with long COVID vaccine related COVID.

• 1:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's call it long COVID. I don't know anybody with long COVID that wasn't vaccinated.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  One of the people you, no.

• 1:32:06Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  I honestly don't. And one of the people you referred us, who's like a mega star. I didn't get his permission to talk about hits, but I won't say his name. But he, he literally sent me a long email saying, thank you.

• 1:32:19Joe Rogan?

  He's the best, isn't he?

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  Like he, he said his voice, everything is back. Like he's been complimented. He's like, I just cannot thank you and your team enough.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  I fucking love that guy. He's, I wish we could say his name too, because we can't.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  But I did, Jelly Roll's like, tell my story, man. Jelly Roll's like, tell it.

• 1:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Jelly Roll's a man.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  He's down 200 pounds and not on a GLP-1.

• 1:32:41Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  I want to be clear.

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:42Speaker 02

  He is not on a GLP-1. Jelly Roll, when we met with him, he said, Bubba, I don't want an asterisk next to this.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he also threw his phone away.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:50Joe Rogan?

  He don't have a phone anymore. He's got an assistant.

• 1:32:53Speaker 02

  Calls me from his laptop.

• 1:32:54Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that amazing?

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  He'll FaceTime me from his laptop.

• 1:32:57Joe Rogan?

  That's the way to be healthy. It's really, it's real, man, you know? If you can, that's another thing that people need to take into consideration when you're talking about mental health. As much as social media is really valuable, I would never advocate for a ban on social media. I think it's really valuable. It's also really bad for you. It's really bad for you if you're interacting with nameless, faceless people and they're being negative to you. You're being negative to them and you know, you're arguing about climate or fuck.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  I don't even, I'm a nobody. I don't have hardly any, and I don't even use it anymore other than for work. Because of the political stuff. People are like, "You cuck." And then they just start attacking you and I don't see that. I'm like, "Dude, I'm telling you the truth, man." I get it. You don't like what I have to say, but I'm not lying. I mean, tell me where I'm lying. I'm documenting everything. I have the receipts.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, I get it too. And what, you know what's really funny is when people get mad at you if you criticize the administration. Like, "Well, this is what you voted for." Like, no, listen, fuckface. Nobody voted for people, maybe a few people thought that like some of the ICE raids, the way they're doing it. Where they're showing up at Home Depot and just getting hardworking landscapers and just sending them back to Mexico. Ed Calderon, who's an expert in the cartels who was on the other day. He was explaining to me that they're getting kids that were brought over here when they were two. And they've been here for 18 years. So now they're 20 and they don't speak Spanish, but they're deporting them.

• 1:34:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and that's my thing. You can't bleed belief. You have to be able to fucking stand your ground on individual topics. Otherwise you're a monkey.

• 1:34:34Joe Rogan?

  Nobody voted for that. I certainly didn't think that they were gonna do that. If they said, "This is what we're gonna do. You know, all those kids that were brought over here when they were babies and been raised in America and have American friends and American jobs? We're gonna send them to Mexico where they don't even speak the language."

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, you guys are evil. Fuck you.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  Well, and then that, what you're describing is literally the messages I get. "You fucking idiot. This is what you fought for." Okay, I can tell you right now, Secretary Kennedy is fighting for the things that were hot button topics for me. He was, he is. That team is. And we are trying to overcall, overhaul our food system and all of these different aspects. He doesn't control the fucking EPA.

• 1:35:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:35:13Speaker 02

  Like, I don't control the, I can't control if Congress, and don't get it wrong, it is Republicans and Democrats, but it's gonna take both of them colluding to pass this bill that will give immunity to chemical companies. And one of the things I do want to point out, because again, line of sight, and this, there's so many whack-a-moles and so much shit, Donald Trump probably doesn't know this, one of the things that I've been ringing the bell with, with the FDA, is that most of the ingredients in drugs are coming from China. And if we're worried about China and the future of our relationship with China, we probably shouldn't be allowing all of our pharmaceutical companies to buy all of their ingredients from China. But let's get into big chemical. Glyphosate, we have banned, I don't remember the name of the Chinese company, but several

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  states have banned, have banned this major Chinese agrochemical, chemical company from spraying any of our crops, because we don't want Chinese chemicals sprayed on our food. Dirty little secret. What percentage of Monsanto's chemicals do you think come from China?

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  100%. 100 fucking percent. So if you have a concern about national security, maybe we should stop letting Monsanto fucking systematically spray our food with a bunch of-

• 1:36:32Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:16Joe Rogan?

  That's T-E-C-O-V-A-S dot com. And right now, get 10% off at tacovas.com/rogan when you sign up for email and texts. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know, because I use- That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN

• 1:38:01Joe Rogan?

  to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  Tiny's Chemicals.

• 1:38:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, when 94% of Americans show glyphosate in their blood, maybe we've got a little bit of an issue. But let's just, this is like, take the Stephen Colbert approach. It's such a small number. Such a little amount. What are you worried about? Put all your faith in the experts.

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Well, even that, there is a solution. And I don't have all the answers, but we need to raise the questions. We gotta be able to have the discussions.

• 1:38:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, the solution is, we have to figure out whether it's possible to do regenerative agriculture through the entire country. Do you know that Putin is trying to do that with Russia?

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:38:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Putin is banning use of industrial chemicals in agriculture and trying to move this whole country into regenerative farming.

• 1:38:54Speaker 02

  Well, so, what I learned from talking to this farmer...

• 1:38:57Joe Rogan?

  Not saying he's a good guy. Not saying what he did in Ukraine was great, but for his country in that regard. Like, when you're a dictator, one of the things that's gotta be great is you have the ability to go, "Oh, these people are fucking criminals. Like, look what they're doing. Oh, they're fucking over the health of all my people. They're making it for their own profit. They're making everyone else unhealthy. And then they're gaslighting everybody. And then they're, they're in bed with all these fucking congresspeople who they pay off because they, they fund their reelection campaigns and they fund their super PACs.

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  It's so powerful, Joe.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  It's so much money, man.

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  Jamie, can you pull up again, sorry, is, could you pull up on the Ways2Well website? There's the Senate testimonies. It's Big Chemical. So where I was going earlier, so I'm so ADHD.

• 1:39:41Joe Rogan?

  No, it's okay. Where I was going is if you're a good dictator, you go, "Well, fuck those people."

• 1:39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can fix it.

• 1:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Not that Putin's a good dictator. I just have to say all these things.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:49Joe Rogan?

  I'm just saying.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  So one of the things I learned from a farmer, and I don't know farming, obviously, I'm not, I'm not, I'm a healthcare guy. I had a farmer tell me that 70% of our glyphosate exposure is because the dry harvesting. So it's in the last helm, we spray glyphosate apparently on the crops to dry them out faster, so we can harvest them faster. But that's all in the last week. And if we didn't do that, we would reduce glyphosate exposure by 70%. So it's just a... And we're not on the cusp of a population boom. Our fertility rates are plummeting, our population's declining. We're going to be headed towards a crisis. Elon's covered all of this. Um, Jamie, there's one with, it's...

• 1:40:30Speaker 04

  It's a video?

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  It's a video. Um, and it's, uh, if you pull it up, let's see, oh, because I want you to hear that...

• 1:40:37Speaker 04

  This one or the other one? This one?

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  Ah, shit, I don't know which one it is. I, I think it's...

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  Organic Miss.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, click Organic Miss. It's either that one or the one next to it.

• 1:40:48Speaker 04

  Uh, that was this...

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  The organic, yeah, that one. If it'll play. This is a lobbyist for Big Chemical who testified here in Texas to kill the bill. And what he's saying... ...than there are from people eating foods that may have had pesticides. The truth is, industry is terrified that what will happen is American mothers will see those labels and realizing they're poisoning their children. You're using manure for organic foods. It has to be solely manure, and that is the agent that, that creates dangers in organic foods. A bag of Lay's potato chips has a 50% profit margin. I, I heard Mr. Bucy earlier say something to nature. I don't want the price of eggs to go up. Well, guess what? Eggs have one ingredient: eggs.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  There are more accounts of people dying from eating organic foods than there are from people eating foods that may have had pesticides. Okay, these are the people...

• 1:41:45Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, keep going up. What is the answer to that? That was it? Oh, that was the first thing that he said?

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 1:41:51Joe Rogan?

  That more people are dying eating organic foods?

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  That was his argument.

• 1:41:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay, first of all, look at him. That fella is filled with inflammation.

• 1:42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:00Joe Rogan?

  That fella, there's no way that dude is hiking up to the top of that hill.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  What I was gonna say is, this is where I was going earlier, this is so crazy. We, the land of misfit toys, couple of us fucking every average day Joes.

• 1:42:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  Are going up against the American Heart Association, HEB's lobbying group, Bucky's lobbying group, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, they brought the fucking heat. Thirty-one to nothing, we got the vote through the senate, thirty-one to nothing.

• 1:42:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  And then they said, holy shit, these assholes are gonna pull this off in the state of Texas. They descended upon Texas with lobbyists out the ass. And I'm getting calls like, hey, can you come back to the Capitol? Can you come talk to congressmen and congresswomen? They're looking to kill the bill, they're gonna kill the bill. It was the highest level of fuckery. I, I had Senator Colehurst, I had Lacy Hole, a representative calling and saying, they are pulling out all the stops.

• 1:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  All the stops, and they are telling congressmen and congresswomen, you're gonna create food deserts, you're gonna starve minority communities. This is a race play. Like, you name it.

• 1:43:07Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna starve if they don't have Coca-Cola.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  We ended up having to concede, and this is kind of, it was a little bit of a smart move by Lacy and Senator Colehurst. We put glyphosate and atrazine in the bill to be listed as one of the substances that is known to cause harm. Okay? It isn't a food ingredient, so it was never gonna make it through on the bill. It was literally a smokescreen to provide ground coverage and a negotiation tool. But it also allowed us to see who's against it and what politicians are gonna support big chemical. And these motherfuckers came out in the droves, and one of the main guys from frickin', representative from Waco, tried to kill the bill and turn the bill into a study. He, he said, this shouldn't be a bill, this should just be a long-term study.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  And then industry came in and said, we should kill the bill at the state level and push it back to the feds. We agree with you, there needs to be reform, but let's push it back to the feds. And so, but what people don't understand is, we got the bills done. We got three of these mon- bills done. One of them require labels that disclose any banned substances in the state of Texas now have to be put on the front of a label. Almost like a black box warning.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  So like RD40, all that shit.

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  Uh, any of the food dyes, any of the additives. Uh, it what's not on there are big chemical because big chemical wasn't a food ingredient and the lobby for big chemical is so powerful. And that's where I was going with this. They, I mean, it is crazy, the lobby that Monsanto and these companies have. And they're gonna do that at the federal level and they're gonna try and get this exemption. Uh, around all pesticides and my rebuttal to that, and I said this on a call is. If I'm going to a bar and I'm not gonna fuck someone, there's no reason to carry a condom. So if you're not fucking me, why do you need the condom? If you're not fucking the American people, why do you need a condom? You're giving them a condom, but they're telling us they're not gonna fuck us.

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  Why, why do you need this exemption if your products not causing cancer? Why do you need an exemption?

• 1:45:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Exactly.

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  If your, if your vaccines aren't causing damage, why are we giving you a blanket exemption? It's yet another smokescreen from industry to protect their profits and shut down anybody from ever being able to go after them for the damages they cause.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  And I don't get it. Republicans, Democrats, they're all implicitly involved in this.

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  We have to also understand that in a lot of countries, this stuff is banned. And it's banned for a very good reason. It's banned because we know it causes harm. Why in the greatest country in the world do we ever have anyone that we allow to advocate for harm? For over, for profit? Just, just harm. It's not like this is the only way to grow food. People grow food. All over the world, man.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:56Joe Rogan?

  The idea that this is the only way to grow food is pretty insane. Especially when we have examples.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is like scalability. I don't know if White Oaks Pastures, if you could scale that out.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:08Joe Rogan?

  And, and, and feed the world. I think we might have fucked up. I think we might have fucked up by jamming, you know, I don't know how many millions of people are in LA. 20? What's, what's the number? The real number, you know, what's the real number? No one knows. The ICE raids had the fucking, the streets empty. So no one knows what the real number is, right? But just, how many people do you have to feed?

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  No, and even, I think I said this earlier, didn't I tell you that there was, they call them the Monsanto papers or whatever? And in a FOIA request, there's this leaked document between uh, the head of the EPA and Monsanto where he, this individual says, "If I get this done for you guys, you owe me a medal." Did I say that? Okay, I can remember. Then there's the whole Coca-Cola aspect of it too.

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  The point is, in LA, no one's growing anything.

• 1:46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're just all.

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  So you have 20 million people jammed into an area where the only thing that's growing is weed. That's the only thing that anyone's growing in LA. Imagine if you get people so excited about tomatoes and, and oranges as, as you do about weed? You know, and everybody's like, "Look at my tomato plants."

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  Or even what you talked about a bunch is hunting. Like, so many people are out of touch with the reality of what it takes to create food. No, I'm just saying like, even where their food comes from.

• 1:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, where their food comes from, for sure. So the problem, what I was getting at, is that I think we have set ourselves up where our population numbers in areas like Los Angeles and New York are so great that you almost need factory farming to provide those people with enough nutrition to stay alive. Like, it gets that weird. Because if you get to numbers, right, if you get to 20 million humans that aren't growing food, alright, so they need to get so, somebody else, they've, they've, you know, pushed off to someone else the responsibility of acquiring food, all they have to do is give them currency to get that food. That is a new thing with human beings. This is a new thing. It's a new thing where we do that with enormous populations. And then, so what's the solution?

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  The solution is one of the most immoral and unethical solutions that anyone has ever come up with anything. Stuff a bunch of animals into a fucking warehouse, have them piss and shit into a giant pond that you have outside, that literally is probably poisoning the air around it for miles. And then spray the fuck out of this monocrop agriculture because you've completely distorted.

• 1:48:27Joe Rogan?

  ordered what nature is and you've you've got thousand acres of corn like that never happens in the world and all the animals and all the plants are supposed to kind of like intermingle in an ecosystem and for profit you've decided to like set up this fucking Frankenstein lab where you just spray death juice all over the fucking corn and then you subsidize the farmer so that corn syrup is in goddamn everything, everything including fucking salad dressing. You know, and then you have canola oil, which is really just rape seed oil. And it's a disgusting fucking industrial lubricant that you're pretending is health, heart healthy.

• 1:49:09Joe Rogan?

  And like this is, this is the system that we're in right now and most people wa- he, you know, there's a giant percentage of people that have been educated by traditional media that think that everything that I'm saying is conspiracy theory nonsense from bro-science guy. Which I am, bro-science guy. That's, I have a degree in bro-science. But this is all just real, folks. You're, you're fucking poisoned. And if you continue to eat that way, you're gonna be doomed. Your, your body's gonna fall apart. That's just a fact. We know it. We all know it. Processed food diets are just, there's no one that can say they're good for you, they're bad for you. Here's the question, do we have enough stake in this? Do, do, do we have enough people's

• 1:49:51Joe Rogan?

  understanding of the dire consequences where we can have a real conversation about how do we feed all these people ethically and morally? Because right now, we have ag gag laws where if someone, like I say, if you work at some slaughterhouse or someplace, you're not allowed to film the atrocities that you see. Yeah, there's laws. Yeah, you will go to jail. So if you show up at one of those horrible pig farms where they got these pigs like stuffed next to each other and shitting through grates and then that, you ever seen that?

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  I've seen that, yeah.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  If you filmed that and put it on TikTok, like this is where your bacon comes from, you go to jail. You go to jail.

• 1:50:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:50:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if they're doing, if they're abusing the animals, like there's videos of guys that are working in slaughterhouses like beating cows over the head and kicking them when they're down and slicing their throats, letting them squirm around. Those kind of videos, you'll go to jail for filming them.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Joe Rogan?

  No consequences for the people that are doing it. Because here's the other dirty secret.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  It's just so short sighted.

• 1:50:49Joe Rogan?

  Here's the other dirty secret. Where do you think they get their employees from? If you, you're gonna run an disgusting, unethical, immoral business, who are you gonna hire? First of all, it's disgusting, dirty work. Nobody wants to smell pig shit all day. Who are you gonna hire? Well, you're gonna hire people that snuck into the country because you don't have to have documents on them. You don't have to pay them any kind of healthcare. You don't have to give them any kind of benefits. You don't have to give them jack shit.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Joe Rogan?

  So you benefit from keeping that fucking border wide open. And these people that have publicly talked about this, we need the labor in this country because they're doing jobs that Americans don't want to do. Well, you should really ask yourself, do we need those jobs? And do we need to be doing it the way that we're doing it where those jobs are a necessity? In 2025?

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Or are we captive to an evil industry that cares more about money than it does about humans? Which is demonic.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  Well, I think you see the history throughout all industry, you know? It's that, it's, it's just.

• 1:51:55Joe Rogan?

  But it's, it's always a battle of good and evil. And that's what we have to understand. Like, don't lose faith. Like, oh my god, the people suck. No, no, no, no, no. A small amount of people suck and some of those people get power. And then they control massive amounts of people who mostly don't suck. Most people don't suck.

• 1:52:11Speaker 02

  Literally what you're saying is, um, and we've talked about this, but I swear to god. Like, when Denise came on to Waste Well to help me start this thing almost 10 years ago, our conversation was, if we keep our moral compass, if we make this about people. This is, this is the hand god truth, man. This isn't.

• 1:52:32Joe Rogan?

  Hey brother, I love you. You don't have to tell me. This is one of the reasons why you're on this. You're a really good person, like a genuinely good person. And I've seen you interact with fucking dozens of people that are my very good friends. I've seen you, I've talked to people that I, that I knew, but that you maybe didn't know that I knew them independently. And they've told me they've had amazing experiences with you. You're a good guy. I know, and you're making good money. But your mindset is so on the money. Like, do the best that you can for people and all the other stuff will fall into place. Like, the problem. With corporations is that you can't function like that.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:12Joe Rogan?

  You have an obligation to your stakeholders. So even if you're a good person, which I think most of those people are probably good people that have been co-opted. And then there's this diffusion of responsibility because you're a part of a gigantic corporation. Maybe I don't like what's going on. Maybe I don't like what we're doing, but hey.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  It gets hard.

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  I can do is affect what I do around me. Like when you're a defense lawyer and you're helping somebody get off and you know he's a murderer.

• 1:53:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:33Joe Rogan?

  And you have to help.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  Cause this is your job. Like a guy stabbed his wife and you have to pretend he didn't.

• 1:53:39Speaker 02

  I can even have empathy for that because

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  I can too.

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  This is hard, like even running this company. I'm under attack. I mean, we have 500 employees. I'm battling the FDA. I'm battling the state of Texas. We were worried about the DEA and it changing telemedicine law. But then you still have competition and beyond market pressure from Big Pharma, there's other compounding pharmacies, there's other telemedicine companies, there's other telemedicine apps, there's other AI driven. And you're sitting here and I'm watching what the market's doing and I disagree with it. And I've stayed my ground and if I'm wrong, I let down 500 people. If I get this wrong, I disappoint and let down 500 fucking people that believed in me, that took a leap of faith, that have worked at these companies because I have refused to outsource care.

• 1:54:26Speaker 02

  What I have seen when I came on this podcast, I guess almost four years ago now, the first time, we had this boom. We had only managed like 7,000 patients. I go on here and 20,000 people tried to register in like a day. And I'm like, holy shit. And people are like, you guys suck and why can't you be in my state? And I'm like, because to get into your state is a lot more complicated. The, the way my competitors are doing it is they're just outsourcing to a telemedicine doc that has no training in this disease state. And that to me is no different than Big Pharma. If we're going to just

• 1:55:01Joe Rogan?

  It's a slippery slope.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Push pills and one size fits all approach, how is that medicine? That's not predictive, preventative, impersonalized. And the vision of this company was to be predictive, preventative, impersonalized. And I've had people try and buy us out and I've had people offer to buy us out and I could take a payday. But I look at that and I go. We're barely scratching the surface and the day I sell, this thing is no longer what it is.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  I really believe that. It's just gonna be a money thing.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to say any of what you just said, because I know that you would never do that. I know who you are. And to speak to the level of personalization you guys do, I get vitamins that are personally adjusted to whatever my blood work is. And that's what I take now. I take ways to well vitamins. I take eight of them. I just throw them in my mouth, swallow them all at once. Some people think that's gross. It's easy for me. I got a big mouth.

• 1:55:52Speaker 02

  No water? Nothing?

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I drink water, for sure.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  How would you even do that?

• 1:55:59Joe Rogan?

  I couldn't even swallow one without water.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  I know people who will just swallow a bunch of pills. I can't do it. I have to sip one pill at a time.

• 1:56:04Joe Rogan?

  They have no water?

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Oh man, Justin Rin, when he would take his vitamins, he would just throw like a whole handful in and just swallow them. I'm like, how do you do that, dude?

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  No water?

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know he's a huge human, but Jesus.

• 1:56:13Joe Rogan?

  That's Viking genes. They're used to eating mushrooms that way, when they would go on berserker raids. Um, but, you know, I just, that's all I have to take now. And, uh, I'm gonna get my new blood work soon, see where everything's at. Um, I think I'm gonna add a bunch of stuff back in, particularly niacin, and then a bunch of other stuff that I was taking that, uh, really seems to have worked in terms of stopping macular degeneration, age-related macular degeneration. I think that and the red light therapy has worked. I don't use reading glasses anymore when I read my phone.

• 1:56:44Speaker 02

  Hell, man.

• 1:56:45Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  And GHK and BPC and stem cells and all of these things have, uh, benefits in every one of those aspects. There was that study out of Europe, I think we covered it last time, for, uh, degenerative eyesight loss in using red light therapy.

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my eyesight is still not the best. Like, if I put a pair of readers on, I can see better, but I have no problem reading. It's just like a little fuzzy, but not to the point where I can't read things anymore. But it was getting worse. It was getting significantly worse, like, every six to eight months, I would notice a decline, like, fuck, man, I can't see shit anymore. And then I started wearing reading glasses. I've stopped that. So, it's not just stopped in its tracks, but my eyesight has gotten better. Which is, nobody thinks that's possible. Ask most ophthalmologists, like, what, you're gonna take vitamins and you're gonna like stare at the red light?

• 1:57:38Speaker 02

  Well, it makes sense because all of these things are in an effort to refuel ATP and eyesight and ocular degeneration requires an immense amount of ATP and as our cells begin to degrade, those are the first cells that are gonna go and begin to lose their functionality.

• 1:57:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  And so if we can refuel ATP and maximize ATP, then we can optimize your chances at these degenerative things not occurring. And that's my whole point of these building blocks. Peptides, stem cells, amnion, purified, like, all of it, all of, all of it, PRP, you name it. All of these things are tools in the tool belt that aren't readily available or even talked about in traditional medicine. And it's not because your doctor or clinician's a bad guy or girl, it's because they're in an insurance model and insurance doesn't cover any of these things.

• 1:58:28Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And that's the real problem in this country, that everything has been co-opted by businesses. And it's not the right path towards your health. And there is a path towards your health. And we have to fucking light the way and have to say, hey, this, uh, this road that we're on, do you know goblins built this road? Do you know this road leads to the fucking goblin house? Yeah, guys, I know a way around to the enchanted forest. Go this way.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Another, you're our mutual friend. I asked him and his mom if I could talk about this. Jesse Michaels. So Jesse's dad is, is older and he's suffering from dementia. And they flew down here. I said, just get him down here. And again, it's very nuanced. We did a lot of things. He was here for three days. They're academics. He's, Jesse's brilliant. You can tell that kid's brilliant, but his parents are brilliant too. They're psychologists. And so both his parents are psychologists and his dad's battling dementia and has had cognitive decline. And they came in and his mom was a mega, mega skeptic. And on day three, she came into the clinic.

• 1:59:31Speaker 02

  With tears in her eyes hugged Veronica hugged the team which I gotta thank the team that is here in Austin because those people are unbelievable. I love my team.

• 1:59:39Joe Rogan?

  You have a great team.

• 1:59:40Speaker 02

  They're the magic. I am not. They're the magic, not me.

• 1:59:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a great place. It's very positive.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and she hugged us and cried and said last night, like this stuff makes me emotional because it's, I believe it, man. I'm telling you, I've seen it. I believe it. I'm a believer. You're never gonna change my mind. I don't give a shit what these people are saying at the federal level. This stuff is life changing and I've witnessed it.

• 2:00:03Joe Rogan?

  Finish the dementia story.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  Tears in her eyes hugged the team and said, last night, I had my husband back. If nothing else.

• 2:00:12Joe Rogan?

  What did you do?

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  If this is all we get out of this, we did stem cells, we did, uh, he was there for the three day experience, which was like hyperbaric, cellular therapy, peptides, hit him with everything but the kitchen sink, like what we do with with all these folks and we systematically red light. We did all of it, but he's here for a three day experience and we run him through these things just to see if we can launch him into like a healthier space going back home. Reduce inflammation, help with all of these different aspects, hit him with GHK, hit him with BPC, hit him with stem cells, all of these different peptides and building blocks. Anyway, she, she literally was in tears and hugged the team and said, for the first time in a long time, I had my husband back last night. It was like the olden days, like we talked, we laughed, we hugged.

• 2:00:59Speaker 02

  I had my husband back and she said, if, if it's just that, if all I get out of this is that one night, thank you. Like, thank you. And I talked to Jesse and he's like, my dad's doing the best he's done in months. I'm not saying that these things are gonna cure dementia. I'm not saying any of that.

• 2:01:14Joe Rogan?

  Dude, if I had dementia and that happened, I would move to Austin. I'd be camped out right next to your fucking building. What time are you guys opening? Do you know what I'm saying?

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. But so many people think there's no hope and people with obesity like Jelly Roll. 500 pounds, man.

• 2:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  And look at him.

• 2:01:32Joe Rogan?

  It's incredible.

• 2:01:33Speaker 02

  He's gone from walking to now he can run, now he's playing pickup basketball games.

• 2:01:37Joe Rogan?

  He carried that stupid rock.

• 2:01:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think he did, because he went up to the top.

• 2:01:42Speaker 02

  He did that hike with Cam.

• 2:01:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he went up to the top of Mount Pigska. He was on Lift, Run, Shoot. He was amazing on it.

• 2:01:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:47Joe Rogan?

  He's such a sweet soul of a human being.

• 2:01:49Speaker 02

  He's unbelievable. He's the nicest guy.

• 2:01:51Joe Rogan?

  And he looks like a criminal. A full-on criminal, fucking tattoos all over his face, looks so sketchy, but he's so sweet.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Such a good dude and the fact that he lost...

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  He's gonna be on the cover of Men's Health and GQ now.

• 2:02:02Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible. It's incredible. Well, what he's done is super, super inspirational.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  And I hope it motivates other people, like, you can get the weight off. It doesn't have to be a GLP-1.

• 2:02:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:02:13Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to be, and even those, like, this is where it's nuanced. Like, I understand the backlash against GLP-1s, but when titrated down and unique and proprietary to a dosage unique to that patient, and when stacked with things like hormone optimization and, you know, IGF.

• 2:02:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 02

  We can burn that fat off and maintain lean muscle mass, and we're quantifying it because we have a DEXA at the clinic. So anybody who comes in, we run them through a DEXA now. We know their lean muscle mass, their body fat, and the goal's to preserve muscle, because I would argue more important than getting the body fat off, and this is the pivot that I've tried to get Jelly Roll to and other folks, the fat's gonna come off. Let's focus on building muscle. If we can build muscle and help build leg strength and help put muscle on your frame, that is going to increase your metabolic burn rate, that is going to put you in a better position for long-term health. Don't make it all about the scale.

• 2:03:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  Make it about your body composition and how can we transition that composition to optimize lean muscle, minimize visceral and subcutaneous fat, but we don't want to give up a pound of muscle.

• 2:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:23Speaker 02

  Keep all, it's a motherfucker to put that muscle back on. You don't want to lose that muscle.

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, even with hormone optimization, it's a constant battle. You have to constantly be working. And if you don't, you're gonna get weak. And that this is not a good thing. It's not virtuous to be weak. And this is a problem with, you know, we were talking about masculinity earlier. Yeah. Hyper awful masculinity is Vikings. Right? They show up in a boat, they kill everybody. Like, yeah, you don't want that.

• 2:03:52Speaker 02

  Shane Gillis' bit on Vikings?

• 2:03:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the gay Vikings.

• 2:03:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what they were, too.

• 2:03:56Speaker 02

  That would be terrifying.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what they were, too. Yeah. But I think everyone was gay back then. I don't, you know, when you read about the Spartans, like, hey, is this unusual? Is everybody gay? And then you're like Socrates, oh, he was gay, what the fuck, was everybody gay? I think, I think it was different back then. I think the concept of gay and straight is a fairly new one. I think back then, everybody just fucked everybody.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 2:04:21Joe Rogan?

  It was wild times. Just like chimps do. Chimps, like Bonobos, you ever watch the Bonobos? They have one rule, the mom won't fuck the son, that's it. Everybody's fucking. Everybody else is fucking everybody.

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  No, it was chimpanzees in that. Was that, those weren't Bonobos, though?

• 2:04:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  What was that chim- yeah, that was wild.

• 2:04:37Joe Rogan?

  Crazy, yeah. Bonobos are, they're weird hippie-like cousins.

• 2:04:42Speaker 02

  I've heard you've been talking about Jesse's deal with the, the tridactyls.

• 2:04:46Joe Rogan?

  Insane.

• 2:04:48Speaker 02

  And then you've, I know, I think we talked about, have you, you've watched the one on Homo Leti? That bipedal primate that buried the dead deep in caves, like, we don't know shit. We know nothing about our history.

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  We're learning, but it's a scattered, it's not like, oh, we found the logbook. We know what happened at every step of the way. No, we're finding like little pieces of evidence from a burnt down building. Like, what is this? Oh, this looks like, I think this is a lighter.

• 2:05:18Speaker 02

  Well, I know you had Gary, you had Gary Nolan on, too. I haven't heard it yet, but, where's your head at now? Cause I know you've gone back forth, back forth.

• 2:05:26Joe Rogan?

  Something's going on. But whatever this thing is going on, first of all, from a material science perspective, which is what Gary was here for. Well, Gary was here to talk about his cancer research, first of all, which is fascinating. And then, amazing stuff, like, very interesting. Then, we, we started talking about how this was sort of an accidental introduction. Someone brought to him a piece of some kind of a craft supposedly that crashed. And said, could you analyze this and find out what this is?

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  Was someone in the CIA?

• 2:06:00Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 2:06:02Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Uh, one of them, a piece was brought to the Art Bell Show. They said that was from a crash from like the 1940s.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  But this piece, it had a direct chain of evidence. So people knew where it is from a crash from 1960s in Brazil.

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  It was made out of almost pure silica. But the magnesium, the ratios, the isotope ratios and the magnesium had to be from a place that was experiencing what is equivalent of a neutron bomb going off every two minutes for 900 years. Right. Like, this is not, like, this would be hyper difficult to make today. Not saying it's impossible. This is what he's saying. Like, the odds of someone making that in 1950?

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  What are you talking about? And then there's this alloy that they found where there's layers at like an atomic level, that this has been like a 3D printed alloy? With like, levels of these metals that don't occur organically? And this is from 1970? Like, this is impossible today. With human beings in 2025. No one's making that shit. There's not a fact, you would know. Someone would have heard about it. Unless there's some blacklisted military operation deep in the Nevada Mountains that no one knows about, that's doing some crazy, super funded shit that they lie to Congress about. Okay, maybe. But in 1970, were you doing that?

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Did you have that alloy in 1970 that we can't make today? That seems unlikely. So something's going on.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Well, and your podcast with Representative Luna, I mean, I know she's on the political side, but I was listening to that, and I'm like, to have a Congresswoman saying these things, and then even Tulsi came out.

• 2:07:54Joe Rogan?

  She was talking about interdimensional beings. And I was like, what are you saying? You know, do you why I reached out to her to have her on the podcast? Because she made a tweet about the description of angels. What angels look like.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't even see it.

• 2:08:10Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I go, did you tweet this? And she goes, yeah. And I was like, you didn't want to talk to me about this? And we never even talked about it. We never even got into the conversation. But we got into aliens. And we got into, which...

• 2:08:24Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think that good and evil are real things. I think they're real things, and I think there's this very big struggle, both on a micro and a macro scale. I, I, I think internally, there's a battle of good and evil. You know, when you wanna do something good, but you can get away with doing something bad, the right thing to do is to do the good thing. And then you feel better because of it. This is like a weird, it's not like it's impossible for you to go into evil. If the situation was that you were, uh, you know, in another time, in another part of the world, in a horrific war, and you had to raid a village because everyone else is raiding the village,

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  and you have to kill everybody because everybody else is killing everybody. We're, that's a part of us. There's, but there's a, there's a real struggle between figuring that out. I wonder if that exists with some other beings from somewhere else. And this is, this is where you get into biblical depictions of gods, and angels, and demons. And you go, well, what are, what are we really talking about? If these people were trying to write something down to represent a real event that took place, we're looking at it in the framework of a society that believes in aliens because we've experienced space travel. We know how to fly in planes, we know how to fly to the stars,

• 2:09:52Joe Rogan?

  and we know where this goes. We know where this goes. This goes to a better place where you get really good at it, when then you come visit us. Right? So we know that. But back then, they didn't know that. Yeah. They didn't know anybody could fucking fly. Right? So when, if they're experiencing angels who literally fly, and, and, and devils, and these fucking things that they find...

• 2:10:15Joe Rogan?

  The like the Brazilian one from Virginia smells like sulfur?

• 2:10:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:21Joe Rogan?

  Is that weird that that's what demons supposedly smell?

• 2:10:23Speaker 02

  Stories, all those stories and then you go like back in even biblical scripture like the book of Enoch, which I know isn't like technically.

• 2:10:31Joe Rogan?

  I'm reading that right now. I've got it on audiobook right now. Listening to it every day. It's fucking bananas.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  It's crazy, yeah.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  The watchers who came down from the sky to mate with female.

• 2:10:43Speaker 02

  To Enoch, took him into space and gave him knowledge of agriculture and architecture and you're like, what?

• 2:10:50Joe Rogan?

  Also sorcery.

• 2:10:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that.

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, which is probably technology.

• 2:10:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:56Speaker 02

  It would be to people in that era.

• 2:10:57Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. Dude, I think we're engineered. I think this is, I think we are in a stage of our society where the, the growth is experiencing this confrontation with our nature. Like the, the growth of intelligence, the growth of, the growth of awareness is experiencing this battle with the fact that wars are still going on. I think this is why, like, there's a lot of shock um in some circles about the public's backlash against what's happening in Gaza. Like, almost like they can't understand it. Like, you can understand, ah, how is this possible that someone's upset?

• 2:11:42Joe Rogan?

  You're fucking telling me this is the only way in 2025 human beings can behave? Where you can bomb women and children and any opposition to that is anti-Semitic?

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  That's not flying today. You can't do that today because this is a, so we are evolving, but we're not there yet. We're not at a place where we have no war. We're not at a place where there's no more murder. We're not at a place where you don't have to send the National Guard into Chicago because there's 54 fucking shootings in a weekend. So. If I was an alien civilization, I would wait.

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:18Joe Rogan?

  I would do what we're doing right now.

• 2:12:20Speaker 02

  I almost viewed it as a test. I've said this. I've said this recently. I don't remember who it was, but in my mind, I look at it as kinda like what Graham Hancock says. What if we reached a level of of knowledge and sophistication, but there's a reset button? And I know the cataclysmic events and all those things, and we know that happens. And we know what happens, I think, every 70,000 years. There's that. It's historically gonna happen. But separate from that, when we look at the cosmos, and we say, once you have the ability to generate a certain, reach a level two society, and you reach that level two society, then you can create enough energy to bend space and time, and in theory, you could fold time and traverse the cosmos.

• 2:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:00Speaker 02

  Okay. What if the reason there's not an exorbitant amount of intelligent life in the universe or the cosmos is you have to reach a certain level of spiritual accountability and knowledge and maturity before the technological advancement supersedes that or advances past it, right?

• 2:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:18Speaker 02

  Because right now, if you gave us infinite power,

• 2:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:21Speaker 02

  we're gonna be fucking dead.

• 2:13:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, we kind of

• 2:13:23Speaker 02

  It's terrifying.

• 2:13:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, we're certainly in that situation when it comes to nuclear bombs. We have enough nuclear bombs to kill everybody over, and yet we're still making them.

• 2:13:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:32Joe Rogan?

  Everybody on the planet, we can get killed, and we're still so stupid that we haven't pointed at each other. Right? So if I was an alien, I would wait. Um, I think that makes sense that you have to achieve some sort of spiritual connection, but that is just assuming that you stay human, and that human is the only way to go. You know, there's this very highly criticized video of Peter Thiel, which is, uh, kinda funny.

• 2:13:55Speaker 02

  About the Antichrist?

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, that's another one. Poor guy. Also, it kinda like looks a little too shiny to be a regular person. He's a little too slippery looking, so that's

• 2:14:05Speaker 02

  Reptilian.

• 2:14:06Joe Rogan?

  But he's a thoughtful person, and when I was asking him any question on the podcast, he has these long pauses before he answers. It's a part of his speech pattern, part of his thinking. Well, the problem is, he did that with the question of should the human race survive? This guy, this guy was like, the answer, they should, right? So the guy was like pressing him, talking to him like he's a regular person, instead of just letting this air out, letting, you're gonna, are you pressed for time? You've got a fucking an hour and a half to talk to this guy. Let him talk. But This, the, the problem is, we are awesome. And I love all the things that we do.

• 2:14:48Joe Rogan?

  I love how we create art and food and we create fun and comedy. We're fun with each other. I love human beings. I, I love our, our creative ability. I love all the things about us. But this is not the only way that a life form can exist. And the idea that we have to stay this forever, although I love us, seems kind of silly. This is like going back to Australia Pithecus and go, "Bro, fucking sticks and stones for life, bro. Fuck a house, okay, bro? I'm down with all..." No, that's ridiculous. That's crazy. And what's the next logical step for an organism that is experiencing technological advancements

• 2:15:32Joe Rogan?

  far beyond anything that, any other organism on the planet has come anywhere we're close to? Like, we're, we're way out there. What's the, what's the next logical step? Well, abandon everything that ruins us.

• 2:15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  So what ruins us? All this greed that we're talking about earlier. What does all this come from? This comes from famine thinking. This comes from tribal thinking, us versus them. This comes from trying to acquire resources because you want to stay alive. All those things have been hijacked. All these human reward systems have been hijacked and monetized and then stuck into this corporate structure where you have to make more money every quarter. It's craziness.

• 2:16:12Speaker 02

  Well, and then, back to psychedelics. When you do psychedelics, ego sheds and you go, "There is no me. Like, there's us. We're in this together." And every time, I think I'm, I'm trying to be a good person. There's never a time I've done a big dose of psychedelics and not thought about something I didn't mean in third grade or like-

• 2:16:31Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:16:32Speaker 02

  "I gotta be better. I have to be more patient. I can't lose my temper."

• 2:16:36Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:16:37Speaker 02

  "My god, man, I really wish I wouldn't have lost my temper over X."

• 2:16:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the benefit of it.

• 2:16:41Speaker 02

  "I could have been way more empathetic on this. I was selfish and I was busy and I was stressed and I ignored this person's cry for help."

• 2:16:48Joe Rogan?

  This is my point. I think we're that, we're that close to not ever having to think about those things again. I think we're that close. I think we're that close to transcending what it means to be a human being. And I don't know if it's good.

• 2:16:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:59Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if it's good.

• 2:17:00Speaker 02

  You're saying through technology?

• 2:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cuz what we're getting, what we're getting with humans is the blues. We're getting Charlie Crockett, we're getting Sturgill Simpson. We're getting, with humans, we're getting beauty. We're getting amazing voices. We're getting paintings that make you go, fuck. We're getting muscle cars like, dude, look at this thing. We're getting, with humans, we're getting all this amazing stuff, but we're also getting Gaza. We're also getting Ukraine. We're also getting the, the, the fucking, the banking, the housing scandal from 2008, the collapse. We're getting evil shit. We're getting demons. We're getting, you know, the fucking, we could go down the line with medications and pharmaceutical drugs

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  and chemicals and pollutants and all the different fucking scams that are running around in our education system. All of this is because human beings are capable of deceit. All of this is because human beings have these reward systems that are built in from us being territorial apes. And we're all so attached to those things because they make great barbecue. Because, cuz, because a milk, a chocolate milkshake is fucking delicious. You know, because I do like pulling into Pete Terry's and ordering a double bacon cheeseburger on a boat. You know, it look, it doesn't mean that this is the only way to go, and I think we have to abandon that.

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Just like you have to ban the idea of not having a cellphone anymore. There's gonna be something that happens in our lifetime that allows us to communicate with each other in a different way. And I think it's going to be mind to mind, and I think it's gonna be through this interface, and it gets really challenging. It's gonna get really challenging as to, how do you know whether or not that interface is controlled? Is there a decentralized system where we realize that the power structures that exist right now in terms of big tech, you cannot allow, that we've shown that they're terrible with censorship, we've shown that they're terrible with dictating narratives and with

• 2:19:09Joe Rogan?

  siding with with corporate structures that are doing things that are absolutely detrimental to people's health and well being and they're doing it and they're lying and they're using bots and so we know that that exists right now and if we have that controlling the mind, literal the hive mind of the world, that's not good.

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  So your theory though, if I'm understanding, I want to make sure, because we don't have telepathy yet, I want to make sure I'm understanding, I think I am, like I look at ChatGPT or any of these large language models and they're a tremendous resource and that is now the new Google and that is where you research and get a lot of information and fact check things and right now you type it in a phone and you wait and you get an answer. In the future, I'm envisioning like Cyberlink or one of these companies implants something and you're merged with that. So you think like the Matrix, I know Kung Fu.

• 2:20:01Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 2:20:02Speaker 02

  I know Kung Fu.

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 2:20:03Speaker 02

  You just downloaded Jiu Jitsu app and now you know Jiu Jitsu.

• 2:20:05Joe Rogan?

  And universal language, universal telepathic language. I think that's on the agenda and Elon's talked about that.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  Amanda already has fucking headphones that she brought to Europe where you speak in one language, you give the person the other headphone, it tells them in English and in their language and then translates theirs to English.

• 2:20:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:23Speaker 02

  It's literally there. It's just a frickin' earpiece though.

• 2:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:26Speaker 02

  And it's in your ear and imagine when that's just in your head and you're not even using words, you're just sharing an emotion.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  How about we abandon all languages except a new one? The whole world.

• 2:20:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's probably the Tower of Babel, dude. That's probably how it went down. See, when I read like these things like the Book of Enoch or like even if you try, this is like the Ezekiel story, I'm always like, what are they trying to say? Someone was trying to write something down, to dismiss it today as just fairy tales and that's cute. I love how you're really smart and you're better than everybody else. That's great. Cause that's part of the thing of being an atheist. Like I'm smarter. These are fairy tales. Like, okay, like I don't really believe a guy came back from the dead, but what were they trying? Trying to talk about like what what is who was that guy?

• 2:21:18Speaker 02

  I don't like people who have that definitives. You can't be that.

• 2:21:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  Being atheist is just as arrogant as saying my where was the saying like there's nine hundred something religions? And if you're a Christian and you say all eight hundred ninety nine are wrong.

• 2:21:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:32Speaker 02

  Being an atheist is even more arrogant. You're literally saying everything's wrong and there's nothing like I just.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think.

• 2:21:39Speaker 02

  There's gotta be something.

• 2:21:40Joe Rogan?

  I think there is something, but I think you also have to look at it through the lens of human beings. Cause unfortunately we are a dirty filter. And if you run the truth through us, the truth is going to get contaminated. If you have like poured like if you pour pure tequila through a filter that has cat shit in it.

• 2:21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:00Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna get cat shit in your drink. That's just how it works.

• 2:22:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:22:04Joe Rogan?

  Right? So if you're a human being and you're telling a true story and you're telling it for centuries before it ever gets written down. Right? And then it gets written down in one language. It gets translated into another language. And then you get a couple of rabbis who decide way back like what year was it where they took the book of Enoch out of the canon? Right? They decided because it was from a rival faction from the Qumran people. Those are the ones that believed in Enoch. Well, fuck those people. Those guys are assholes. Let's take. Let's get it out. So that that one story that throws the like what they had to teach that in the Bible today. If you went to Sunday church and they were talking about the watchers coming down and breeding with female humans and providing sorcery and metallurgy?

• 2:22:48Joe Rogan?

  And teaching them agriculture like what are you saying?

• 2:22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:52Joe Rogan?

  Like what happened instead of this one very compelling story about Jesus Christ? Which is very compelling because there's no human beings historically like even like if you're a Muslim. The some of the things that Muhammad did, a lot of people like, hey, this is kind of crazy. He married a nine year old. Hey, this is kind of crazy. Like what do you like? He's a warlord. Hey, this is kind of crazy. Like with Jesus Christ, it's very weird. Like you have this insanely peaceful person in a time of ultimate chaos. Where the Romans are literally taking people that they don't like and pegging them to a. Fucking cross.

• 2:23:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:29Joe Rogan?

  And then this guy decides he wants to die that way. And this is everybody's story that interacts with them. Nobody's like, oh, I knew Jesus. He was a cunt. The guy was a piece of shit. Let me tell you what, he fucked my sister, dude. I told him, just don't fuck my sister. Like, no, there's no stories like that. It's weird. The story is weird. The story of this guy who tells you universal truths that apply today. You know? Treat everyone as if they are you.

• 2:23:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:57Joe Rogan?

  And that he figured this out 2,000 years ago? I want to know who that guy was. Like, what was going on with that guy? Was that guy like the ultimate mushroom eater of all time? That he figured it all out back then? And was he teaching these people that? Or was he an extraterrestrial? Was he what we think of as the son of God because he literally is born from another life form? And brought down to earth to try to help our advancement?

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  It's all fascinating.

• 2:24:22Joe Rogan?

  It is very fascinating because, and anybody who's Christian, like, that's bullshit and blasphemy and you don't know the canon. You're right. But you gotta throw the human being filter into the equation, always. Look, there's some things about the human being filter that are really fascinating, like. One of the things that Wes Huff told us when he was on the podcast is explaining that the Book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which they didn't even know existed, when they translated, they found out it is 1,000 years older than the Book of Isaiah that was thought to be the oldest version of it, and they're identical verbatim. Word for word. So that's where it gets crazy, right?

• 2:25:07Joe Rogan?

  So there's something about, once it's written down, that the true devotees, and as long as you don't get some asshole rabbis aside, get that Book of Isaiah out of there, or get that Book of Enoch out of there. There's a few where humans, the human cat shit filter gets in the way. And you get human interaction with this, and then you lose some of the story. Like, fuck. What was the story, though?

• 2:25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:32Joe Rogan?

  This is my take on all of it. There was something that happened, man. And we have this urge to deny that this something might have been some higher intelligence from somewhere else manipulating human genes.

• 2:25:49Joe Rogan?

  But we do it.

• 2:25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:51Joe Rogan?

  I went to see the dire wolves last month.

• 2:25:55Speaker 02

  How is that?

• 2:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Insane, insane.

• 2:25:59Speaker 02

  Are they're the same ones that are gonna bring back the woolly mammoth, right?

• 2:26:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I went to see the fucking Game of Thrones dire wolves. They are so clearly not regular wolves.

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  It is why, and there's always people that are saying like, oh, technically speaking, according to my academy, this is not a real dire wolf.

• 2:26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:19Joe Rogan?

  You've just manipulated a gray wolf.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  Exasperated traits of the dire wolf in a gray wolf.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  You're correct, however, tell it to the dire wolf. That thing thinks it's a dire wolf, it looks like a dire wolf, it's gonna be, it's behaving like a dire wolf. My point is, we do that. We fuck with genes of animals all the time.

• 2:26:39Speaker 02

  Well, even, you know, I've talked about, look at our own genes. Look at our genetic growth of our brain and we try to go back and say it's because we went to hunter gatherers and all of a sudden we burned meat and then because we burned meat, our GI tract shrunk and our GI tract shrunk and a protein was absorbed and our brains were able to grow. It still doesn't really account for how much our intelligence jumped and our brain capacity jumped.

• 2:26:59Joe Rogan?

  Over just a small amount of time, historically. When you compare all the other animals on the planet, no other animal experienced anything remotely like the doubling of the human brain size. But we were already pretty fucking clever, pretty clever monkeys. You know, monkeys have little languages, they tell each other when hawks are nearby, they scream. You know, they've shown that some monkeys will trick other monkeys into getting away from the fruit. They'll yell out that there's an eagle and then those monkeys run to get away from the eagle and then that monkey runs and gets the fruit. Yeah, so they have a language, they have deception. They're clever little fuckers, but they ain't shit compared to us.

• 2:27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  You know, you go from monkey to Elon Musk and you're like, what happened?

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:43Joe Rogan?

  What happened?

• 2:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Show me what you did. How'd you get here? How'd you get here? There's no one has an answer. You say, oh, it's natural selection, it's a random mutation, like, mm, maybe. Or maybe that book of Enoch's trying to tell you something.

• 2:28:00Speaker 02

  There's so much stuff.

• 2:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Ezekiel's trying to tell you something. Maybe, maybe that wheel within a wheel where this thing is coming out of the sky and he can't even understand what he's seeing. How come so many people have these, just because I haven't had that experience, doesn't mean that that's- Not a real thing that's happened over and over and there might be a reason why I haven't had that experience. First of all, I have too much big of a platform and a big fucking mouth. And I'd probably ruin the whole party, but I wouldn't even because no one would believe me. It would just be one more thing that you ridicule. And when you ridicule people for these experiences that you haven't had yourself, you gotta wonder like, what if they're telling the truth?

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  Did Gary get into, um, cause it go back to like the telepathy tapes and the, the story with these autistic, non-verbal autistic children?

• 2:28:45Joe Rogan?

  I should say something about that though, before we go any further. Oz Perelman, who's a mentalist, he's very critical of that stuff. And he showed me what they're doing. And one of the things that he said, he goes, no, no, these women are touching their sons while their sons are like moving the, the, the words around. They're assisting, they're helping them. He goes, this if a mental, he goes, a scientist might not be able to see what they're doing. He goes, but a mentalist most certainly can. And Oz Perelman is fucking amazing at that shit. I mean, he did some tricks where I figured out how he did it. Jamie actually figured one of the things that he did out afterwards.

• 2:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we don't need to tell anybody. We don't need to tell anybody.

• 2:29:22Speaker 02

  I saw Jamie, Chris Ramsey was doing all this crazy fucking amazing magician illusion shit and Jamie's like fucking calling him out on everything he could figure out.

• 2:29:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, Jamie's a little bit of a, well, let me tell you something though. Me and Jamie, when we watched David Blaine, we were like, what the fuck did he do? Like, what did he do? How did he do that? He was showing us car tricks off camera to, to my young daughter at the time.

• 2:29:48Joe Rogan?

  We were baffled. Jamie was watching him. His sleeves were rolled up. Like, what did he do? Like, we watched it over and over and over again. I don't know how the fuck he did it.

• 2:29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:55Joe Rogan?

  It was weird.

• 2:29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:57Joe Rogan?

  He's weirdly good at that shit. Like weirdly good.

• 2:30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:01Joe Rogan?

  Where it's, it's quite, it's quite a mindfuck. But so Oz Perelman's, but he's not doing real magic. He's not a real sorcerer. Right? This is the point. There's tricks. And Oz was like, you, you should not account for any of that evidence that they're showing you. He goes, this is all like, there's a, a non-verbal communication between the mother and the son, but it involves touching. It involves like pointing and signaling. It's not as simple as the kid just figured it out. And then he showed us a video of it and we're like, oh, I thought it was like, the kid was in another room. No one was around him. They gave him the iPad. He knew what to write down. Cause it was in his head. Cause his mom had seen it. It's not that simple. So maybe there's some that he's dismissing that you can't dismiss?

• 2:30:46Speaker 02

  Well, I've heard Gary do, he breaks down a certain brain anomaly that seems to be consistent with UAP experiencers. Did he get into that?

• 2:30:54Joe Rogan?

  No, he did not.

• 2:30:55Speaker 02

  He's done like these brain scans and tests on military personnel who are trying to qualify for disability. And every single one of them have this brain anomaly. And his thing is, is the brain anomaly an antenna that makes you more receptive? Or able to pick up on these things? Or did the encounter itself create the anomaly?

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, well, you gotta do a double-blind placebo-controlled test and have some kid wander through the desert for a couple of months. Hopefully get abducted. But that's the other thing, they're not abducting, they're, you know, they're doing whatever the fuck they want to do. They don't really care about your agenda, if they are a real thing. You know, and I don't know that they are. I don't know that these aren't just psychotic dreams that people have. I don't know. Because dreams are very realistic. And dreams are often uniform. Like, a lot of people have dreams of falling. A lot of people have dreams of breathing underwater. Does that mean you're really breathing underwater somewhere?

• 2:31:50Speaker 02

  I just look at it logically and say, there's so many inhabitable planets now in the cosmos. And if any of those planets ever had a head start on life a few million years ahead of Earth, then that, there's a statistical likelihood that that life would have evolved into intelligent life over time. And with a big enough head start, you would have the technology. If you don't destroy yourself. But what if, they catch is, if you don't destroy yourself? And what if the test is, do, does your society reach a level of consciousness that is non-destructive? Before you become an off-planet species?

• 2:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, my fear is, the only way to do that is through technology. My fear is that the only way to do that is to integrate with this great machine that we're creating right now. Artificial general super-intelligence. And that we're gonna either have to merge or perish. And that we're gonna choose to merge. And one of the, one of the things that's probably going to happen to us is all of these things that we love, that we create with all of our imperfect human behavior. All those things are have to go bye-bye.

• 2:33:02Joe Rogan?

  That's my fear. That's why the gray aliens all look uniform. They look all the same.

• 2:33:07Speaker 02

  Hive mind.

• 2:33:07Joe Rogan?

  And they don't use their lips. They, they talk with their minds and that's probably the future of the human race. That's probably why it's there. When you see that iconic image from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there's something about that that makes sense, right? Cause that goes, oh, I guess that's where we're going. Cause it seems like where we're going. If we go from, you know, ancient hominids covered in hair, short and fucking gnarled over and fighting off predators to some nerd who works at Google right now, who's deciding, you know, whether or not trans fucking activists who are protesting this or that should show up in your Google feed. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's where, well, where's he going after that?

• 2:33:51Joe Rogan?

  What's, I think that's part of what's going on with like this confusion with gender and the fact that microplastics are killing everybody's reproductive systems, killing everybody's endocrine system, significant drop in testosterone from the 1970s, significant increase in miscarriages. Like we're becoming non-biological sexual entities.

• 2:34:11Speaker 02

  We're literally becoming Demolition Man. Do you remember the movie Demolition Man?

• 2:34:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Dude, we're criticizing femininity.

• 2:34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and at that time, it's like greetings and salutations. Like nobody has violence or any...

• 2:34:22Joe Rogan?

  We're criticizing normal femininity, especially like traditional wife roles. But we are celebrating women who assume roles in society of toxic men, which is CEOs. We're celebrating a woman becoming more manly. We're celebrating men becoming feminists. We're celebrating men who are wearing that fucking BDSM outfit that that shithead was wearing. And it's like, he was posing with that outfit. I'm like, look at me, I'm free. This is how I behave and I want Hep B shots for all the babies.

• 2:34:58Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 2:34:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, we're a society that's lost its fucking way. Clearly, we've lost our way. And what better way to find our way than a little thing you slip on over your head?

• 2:35:12Joe Rogan?

  And everybody's locked in and everybody's together in this. But who's gonna control that fucking thing? It has to be decentralized. It has to be literally like connected to some sort of... A hive mind blockchain. It's the only way it's gonna work. It's never gonna work if you have a corporation like Google or Meta or any other corporation that has censorship. Like even these chatbots, ask chatbots about like racial statistics for homicides and things like that. They don't want to profile. They don't want to do that. They don't want to give you answers on things like that that are really inconvenient and that people don't like.

• 2:35:46Speaker 02

  You saw that crazy fucking software, that Israeli counter surveillance software they just launched last week after that shooting? That shit's pretty scary, man.

• 2:35:56Joe Rogan?

  What are you talking about?

• 2:35:56Speaker 02

  There's a software that they're launching that tracks all the tweets.

• 2:35:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Palantir? Is that what you're talking about?

• 2:36:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's tracking everything that people are messaging and DMing. The way I understand it and the way they were saying it is they were celebrating it as a good thing, but I'm thinking anybody in any chatroom or any of that, it's starting to get like very minority report.

• 2:36:13Joe Rogan?

  So every chatroom?

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  If you're saying something that could be crazy or in a DM or in a chatroom or anywhere on the internet or in Instagram or in a private chat, supposedly this is combing all of the internet, social media, everything to begin to assess mental health and predict analytics of seeing like if you could be a threat. And that they would have been able to cap, yeah, that's, I'm like, then what the fuck are we headed towards? It's gonna be like the statistical algorithm says that you have a 70% chance of committing a violent crime today. You're arrested.

• 2:36:46Joe Rogan?

  And again, who's in control of that? The slippery guy. The guy with, like, you know what I mean?

• 2:36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:51Joe Rogan?

  Like Peter Thiel's a part of all that, but this is not a knock on Peter Thiel. No human should have the ability to have access to that information and decide who gets it and who doesn't.

• 2:37:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  No, no human should be able to decide whether or not you can connect to the hive mind of the entire human race and use a telepathic language. Israeli military creating chat GPT like tool using vast collection of Palestinian surveillance data.

• 2:37:19Speaker 02

  And they're supposedly gonna roll this out here.

• 2:37:22Joe Rogan?

  Is that what they're talking about?

• 2:37:23Speaker 02

  I don't think it's Palantir, because what I heard is it's an Israeli backed software system.

• 2:37:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, we should be real clear then, because I feel like I was talking about Palantir earlier and we're gonna get sued. So this is a different thing. Israeli military surveillance agencies use a vast collection of intercepted Palestinian communications to build a powerful artificial intelligence tool similar to ChatGPT that it hopes will transform its spying capabilities. Wow.

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Okay, according to sources familiar with the project, the unit began building the model to create a sophisticated chatbot-like tool capable of answering questions about people. It is monitoring and providing insights into the massive volumes of surveillance data that it collects. So that's what it's doing.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  And I swear there was an article after that shooting that they're gonna start using it and rolling it out here to proactively protect us against potential threats. And I was like, that shit's not good. That sounds terrifying.

• 2:38:25Joe Rogan?

  And I guarantee they're not gonna say a peep about SSRIs. How about that? Brings it all back to this connection. I bet they won't bring that part up.

• 2:38:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Nope.

• 2:38:34Joe Rogan?

  So you got all your surveillance. Did you notice anything? What'd you guys notice anything? You notice how?

• 2:38:40Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:38:41Joe Rogan?

  Trump administration is silently employing Palantir to gather personal data of each American, raising privacy data misuse concerns. So this is a different thing. So what is it doing? So this is totally different than the Israeli thing, right?

• 2:38:55Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah. I guess I got a mix.

• 2:38:56Joe Rogan?

  No worries, but they're both kinda creepy. Uh, gather personal data of American citizens from various federal agencies sparking concerns over privacy and potential misuse of personal data. So what is it doing? How is it doing this?

• 2:39:11Joe Rogan?

  Does it say?

• 2:39:12Speaker 02

  It's not gonna tell you how it's doing.

• 2:39:13Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't say how it works?

• 2:39:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:39:14Joe Rogan?

  Um, capabilities, data organization, and analysis could potentially enable the merging of information, various agencies thereby creating detailed profiles of American citizens. The Trump administration, but profiles curated by who, right?

• 2:39:28Speaker 02

  It says citizen data from the government, including bank accounts.

• 2:39:31Joe Rogan?

  Go back to that.

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  Did you see that? It says bank accounts. Where was it?

• 2:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Guys, guys, guys. Who signed off on this? Is this already implemented? I say, okay, access extensive citizen data from the government databases, including bank details, student debt, medical claims, claims, and disability status. Oh, you might be faking your disability, Brigham. You might have to come knock on your door. We don't like your tweets. Oh, by the way, Graham Linehan, the guy who was on the podcast, got arrested when he went back to the UK. The guy who was on the podcast, who was a beloved comedy writer from the UK, who was talking about the trans issue and how insane it is, lost everything, lost his career, like getting sued constantly,

• 2:40:20Joe Rogan?

  went back to the UK and they arrested him. They had, they met armed police, met him at the airport and arrested him for tweets, for three tweets. If you go to my Twitter, I retweeted it, I retweeted the story.

• 2:40:37Joe Rogan?

  Will you go to that?

• 2:40:38Speaker 02

  That's scary because we were headed that way. I mean, we were fucking headed that way.

• 2:40:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, 100% and we still could be, you know?

• 2:40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:45Joe Rogan?

  And we still could be. And when people say, "Oh, you voted for fascism." No, I don't think anybody should be in control of this country, okay? Any one person, but believe me, I don't. I don't think anybody's good at it. But I don't think you should let the same party that was propping up a dead man and was secretly doing shit behind the scenes, like using Autopen to sign off on all kinds of executive orders and he didn't even fucking know what the details of were, which is explained, we had that conversation with Mike Johnson, and he literally didn't remember signing it or thought it was something other than what it was. I'm not in favor of keeping that, that's all it is, folks. And I am in favor of RF Kennedy. And I think a lot of the stuff Trump believes in, like making America a robust place

• 2:41:30Joe Rogan?

  where manufacturing booms, bringing back American jobs, are positive.

• 2:41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't like the coin. I don't like the Trump coin, I think that's fucking crazy, that's a crazy move. But is it illegal? I don't know. Are they all corrupt? I think they are. Graham Linehan has been arrested at Heathrow by five police, five armed police officers.

• 2:41:51Joe Rogan?

  His crime was these three posts. Look at these three posts. So, um, click on it and we'll, um, we'll get to see. This is what he says is if a trans identified male is in a female only space, he is committing a violent abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls. Comedy writer, also his opinion. Can't have that in the UK. So this one says, uh, "A photo you can smell", and it's all these people that are protesting. I don't know what the context of this is. Uh, the other one is, "I hate them misogynists and homophobes, fuck them." So, these three tweets are a problem. So, the idea of misogynists and homophobes, you go, "Wait a minute, no, no, no.

• 2:42:34Joe Rogan?

  These are people that are LBTTQ2+ as, uh..." I know a lot of gay people that think that the trans movement is homophobic, because it's saying, "You're not gay, you're a woman."

• 2:42:47Joe Rogan?

  And you're attracted to men, but you're a woman. Well, if you just leave those people alone and don't cut their dick off, they most likely will be gay, and there's data to show that. So a lot of gay people, including Tim Dillon, think of this movement as being homophobic. I know that's so counterintuitive for other people. The idea of it being misogynistic. Well, how is it misogynistic? Well, what better way to harm women than to allow male predators to just tell you they're a woman? "I'm not a wolf, I'm a grandma." Put on the bonnet, and now you're in the chicken coop. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And to say that you're protecting women, including trans women, is like, "That's a new thing."

• 2:43:33Joe Rogan?

  That's a new thing that you invented without taking into account perverts. You didn't take them into account at all. You didn't take into account sex offenders and psychopaths and mentally ill people. You just said, "All trans women are women." Well, you just opened up the door and gave a fucking free pass to psychos to wear a dress. And if you don't want to admit that, that's misogynistic. Because you're not really- Protecting women because you think you by protect well if we have to protect all women because trans women are women and no no no no that's a man.

• 2:44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:08Joe Rogan?

  That's a man and you're using.

• 2:44:10Speaker 02

  It's so weird that the whole world turns this way.

• 2:44:13Joe Rogan?

  With your mouth to distort biological reality. And we're and the the guys is that if you don't do that that you're not empathetic. Well, that's crazy talk. That's crazy. And so that tweet is correct. It but while being a good person.

• 2:44:31Speaker 02

  Did he have to stay in jail or they let him go?

• 2:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Bro, I don't know, man, but he had he had to go to the hospital because his blood pressure spiked. He went fucking crazy. He's a good guy, man. He's a sweetheart of a guy and always super successful in the UK. And he's been attacked because a lot of these people that are, you know, trans identified. A lot of these people, they have a lot of mental health issues. And there've also been people that have been fucked over by the system, including that last school shooter who said that they were upset that they got tricked into becoming trans. And they wanted to cut their hair off. They have all this hair. They wanted to cut it off, but they didn't didn't want to give anyone the satisfaction of like showing that they were right. That you weren't really a woman.

• 2:45:09Speaker 02

  It's such a weird topic because it's such a small percentage of of society, but it occupies so much bandwidth in the public forums.

• 2:45:17Joe Rogan?

  I think this is pure evidence that our our interactions are being co-opted. And it's it's great evidence that a lot. This is the success of the programs that like Yuri Besmanov talked about in the 1980s, where they were talking about demoralization, that the goal wasn't the Russian goal in terms of what they were doing to America wasn't, you know, let's make sure that Donald Trump wins or let's make sure that Hillary Clinton wins. That was not the goal. The goal is to make people lose faith in all of these institutions, lose faith completely. Demoralize them, demoralize them, keep them at each other's back, convince them all that they're racists

• 2:45:58Joe Rogan?

  and that they're homophobes, they're transphobes, they're this, they're that, and they're Nazis and this. Keep them at each other's throats. That's why this thing has become so. But the problem is then kids get caught up in it because it becomes a part of the zeitgeist. It becomes a part of the the culture, you know, kids. Wear bell bottoms, kids do this, I'm non-binary, like, they just jump in. They jump in because they wanna be a part of a group, they jump in because they wanna be noticed. And then they get rewarded, "You're amazing, you're amazing." No one ever told them they're amazing before, next thing you know, they're getting hormones. Next thing you know, they're on this road. And maybe they were autistic, and maybe they have, they're just weird with social interactions. And you're getting, you're tricking kids. And that's a part of this. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that there haven't historically been people that feel like they're in the wrong body.

• 2:46:43Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure there have been. That is not this. This is, this, this is a giant thing that's happening. And I think it's being manipulated. And I think a lot of it is, it's social media manipulation where a bunch of these people aren't even real people, and they're the most vocal, and the most outrageous about it, and they're organized. You go to these, these rallies, why does everybody have the same sign? Where'd you get your sign? Who, who made these signs? Why are they so good? Who's, who's the sign guy?

• 2:47:11Speaker 02

  I do know all the counterintelligence stuff, is that, you know, China and a lot of these nations play the long game, right? They're in it for a twenty-year run, it's not, they're not trying to-

• 2:47:19Joe Rogan?

  A hundred-year run?

• 2:47:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like-

• 2:47:21Joe Rogan?

  What's the best way to do that? Demoralize America? What's the best way to do that? Like, pay off all these fucking doctors, prescribe as much medication as possible. We have a lot of money in the pharmaceutical drug companies. Anyway, this way we profit, let's keep the ball rolling, pay off all these politicians. Let's just be as demonic as possible and try to ruin this amazing experiment in self-democracy.

• 2:47:45Speaker 02

  Scary.

• 2:47:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:47Speaker 02

  It's a battle.

• 2:47:48Joe Rogan?

  This amazing experiment in self-government that's really never been tried before, like we're doing it. It's a new thing. You know, and this new thing also coincides with this other new thing. And this other new thing is the internet. And the internet is awesome and scary, and it's being used by scumbags and brilliant people. Everyone is all swimming around in this sea of ideas, and at least according to some people, eighty percent of it is bots.

• 2:48:16Speaker 02

  That part's nuts.

• 2:48:17Joe Rogan?

  That part's nuts.

• 2:48:18Speaker 02

  Well, then with chat, with, with large language model, I keep saying chat, with any large language model, I mean, man, when you interact with them, and it even shows up on my feeds, I see, you know, they know how to target us, they know like every, they know how to capture my attention, and it's like, now I'm, I showed Amanda a video the other day and she's like, oh, that's AI. And I had to do like a double take, so I was kind of like half paying attention, but it was 100% all AI generated. I'm like, damn, man.

• 2:48:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:44Speaker 02

  Like, what are we gonna do in another 18 months? Like, you're not gonna know what's real.

• 2:48:50Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna have any idea what's real.

• 2:48:52Speaker 02

  I see them doing ads for you all the fucking time, shows up on my feed.

• 2:48:56Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:48:56Speaker 02

  You Huberman?

• 2:48:57Joe Rogan?

  I get people to call me up, is this product legit?

• 2:49:00Speaker 02

  Is because it's, I know you're not advertising for that, and I know Huberman's not advertising for that, and I'm like, I don't even know how they can legally get away with it, I mean, I think they get hammered, but...

• 2:49:09Joe Rogan?

  We go after them, and we have them take them down, but they, sometimes they don't listen.

• 2:49:12Speaker 02

  They took one of our podcasts, it showed up on YouTube. It was one of our podcasts, I don't even remember what you were saying, but it was you breaking down, something to do with Wastewell and how it's helped you, but it wasn't Wastewell, they plug in their, like, product.

• 2:49:27Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:49:27Speaker 02

  And I'm like, oh, these motherfuckers.

• 2:49:29Joe Rogan?

  These motherfuckers, man, they do it with everything, they do it with some sleep apnea mouthpiece, they do it with all kinds of shit, man. They just, there's, like, people, different rappers will have me saying that they're the best rapper ever.

• 2:49:43Joe Rogan?

  And they put it up on TikTok to try to get some clout. It's wild, man, we're in a wild time, but again, it's, we're experiencing great change, and it's not, it doesn't go easy, and that's why there's so much chaos. But you can't lose your humanity in all this, folks. This is, this is the trap, and this is the trap that's being accentuated by social media. This tribal trap of thinking that, um, the other side is evil, and to combat them, you have to be evil. And, and you have to be super mean and shitty, because it's justified, because those people are fascists, or those people are Nazis, like... That's a trap. It's all a trap.

• 2:50:24Speaker 02

  I can tell you 100% industry. I witnessed it when I testified at the federal and the state level. Industry is attempting to separate and divide us, to turn things into issues that aren't anywhere related.

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:50:38Speaker 02

  This is about racism. This is about sexism. This is, it's all a ploy to divide and conquer. Because if we're fighting each other, we're not united and we can't fight industry. But the real evil empire is all these people pulling the strings and ramrodding agendas that are killing millions of Americans every year.

• 2:50:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes, and they're doing it for profit. And that is probably in the Bible. That's prob, that's probably demonic. It's prob, I mean, that, the idea of what demonic thoughts are. What are evil thoughts? I think there's this constant battle because that's the only way you get better. That's what I think. I think on a macro level, like, when you, we, just thinking about life, right? How do you get strong? You get strong by working out. So you have to push yourself so you're weak. Like, you can't do another push-up. And that's how you get strong at doing push-ups. It's the only way. The only way to get really good is to combat evil. You don't just get good.

• 2:51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's no reason to be good. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, everybody's good. Everybody's fine. Life is boring as fuck. You have to have some evil. And you have evil so that you realize that good is so much better. It's a so much better choice. But the choice is not just in, like, on a societal level. The choice is you, on an individual. And there's moments in your life where you can decide whether you're gonna be evil or are you gonna be good? Or maybe you decide, like, hey, what I did, I don't like. And I feel evil. I feel like I shouldn't have done that. And then you have to realize, like, that's a part of growth. It's a connect, it's a battle. And this battle-

• 2:52:14Joe Rogan?

  What we're experiencing right now, but my fear is that there's a lot of us that are unaware of the the actual full impact of all of these other factors that aren't really people. These bots and corporations and propaganda and how they're get like that fat guy arguing with you on that video. That's a gaslighting motherfucker. Like, I don't listen to you if you look like that, if you're telling me about health. Period. Like, get somebody who looks like Huberman. Get someone who looks like he can fight in the UFC tomorrow, right? That, I'll listen to that guy, cuz he's fucking healthy.

• 2:52:59Speaker 02

  Skinny chef, like, you know, the things people say, it's like, if you have an obese doctor who's not taking care of themselves, it's not an attack on obesity, it's hard for me to trust your decision making.

• 2:53:10Joe Rogan?

  Hold on though, Philip Franklin Lee is thin, and he's one of the best fucking chefs alive.

• 2:53:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true. Philip broke the mold.

• 2:53:17Joe Rogan?

  He broke that mold, but he had to get thin, he got to get healthy.

• 2:53:20Speaker 02

  We helped him.

• 2:53:20Joe Rogan?

  I know you did.

• 2:53:21Speaker 02

  We helped him lose his shitload of weight. I think he's lost 20 pounds, but then also we uncovered a bunch of toxins in his system. He posted about it the other day, and he's like, this is from when I started to now. And you can see it in his blood work, all of these different contaminants are now at like physiological normal levels where they were at spiked levels before. Like, microplastics is one of them.

• 2:53:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, microplastics are a big one, and the problem is it goes into your brain. Do you know, most people have like a plastic fork, like a fucking picnic fork sized amount of microplastics?

• 2:53:54Speaker 02

  Our brain by weight is microplastics now. That's insane. We're like, what's causing depression? Oh, I don't know, it could be this, or this, or this, or this.

• 2:54:03Joe Rogan?

  So this goes back to what I was saying is gonna happen to us. If I was, I mean, obviously, I gotta say it, but I already said it, but I just gotta say it so you know I'm not Peter Thiel. I love us. I love humans. I love Peter Thiel, he's a nice guy. My interactions with him, I mean, I don't know if he's evil. I don't think he is. I think all of these factors that are destroying our endocrine system, making us less sexual, all these confusions, is society and culture and chaos and war, all of it is leading us to this leap. That the only way to escape all this awful stuff.

• 2:54:41Joe Rogan?

  That's on this side is to transcend and you transcend by integrating with whatever the fuck we're creating right now. This this Manhattan project that's going on right now between OpenAI and Grok and then they're fucking sabotaging each other and stealing data. Do you hear about that guy that left Grok and he he downloaded the entire Grok database and then fucking sold it to ChatGPT?

• 2:55:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Find that. So, yeah.

• 2:55:11Speaker 02

  Wait, can we pause for a second?

• 2:55:12Joe Rogan?

  You gotta pee?

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been holding. I've been chugging water.

• 2:55:15Joe Rogan?

  Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, pee and come back. We'll find that.

• 2:55:17Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 2:55:18Joe Rogan?

  Ah, the sweet relief of pee. But so that's what I think is happening to us. I think we're becoming some new thing. And I think it's gonna happen way quicker than we'd like it to be. While no engineer sold Grok to OpenAI, Elon Musk AI sued a former engineer, try saying that name, for allegedly stealing Grok's secrets before leaving XAI to join OpenAI. So Elon tweeted that he downloaded, XAI accuses Li of downloading a large amount of confidential information and the full code base for Grok shortly before and after his resignation. Internal investigations revealed that Li allegedly uploaded the stolen code database to OpenAI servers.

• 2:56:03Joe Rogan?

  So they're they're they're doing that and then also I think OpenAI had a situation when they they believe that Chinese, some Chinese scientists had access to their data. Like something happened where there was some sort of a breach of security and they're pretty sure that China got access to all the stuff that they're doing. So see if you can find that story. Because I just butchered that.

• 2:56:31Speaker 02

  All of the AI stuff.

• 2:56:33Joe Rogan?

  Of course, doing that. Of course, they're doing that. Why would they not do that if they've done that with everything else? Why would they not do that? OpenAI takes down ChatGPT accounts linked to state-backed hacking and disinformation. State-backed threat actors from a handful of countries are now using ChatGPT for illicit purposes ranging from malware refinement to employment scams and social media disinformation campaigns, OpenAI said this week. Jesus Christ. Of course, of course, they're using ChatGPT to scam people. Of course.

• 2:57:02Speaker 02

  I just look at all the ways it's gonna impact society from jobs and everything. We're gonna live in the craziest of times.

• 2:57:09Joe Rogan?

  Go back to that, look at it, stirring the social media pot. OpenAI said it banned dozens of accounts it saw using ChatGPT to bulk generate social media posts consistent with the activity of a covert influence campaign or operation. Many of the China-based accounts issued prompts in Chinese and sought responses in English on a variety of topics, including the shutdown of USAID, various sides of divisive topics within US political discourse, backlash towards Taiwan, Pakistani activist, I don't know how to say that name, who has publicly criticized China's investments in Balokistan?

• 2:57:54Joe Rogan?

  Would you even, have you ever thought that was a real country? That seems like, that sounds like something that Game of Thrones guy would write down. The accounts sought to create social media comments in English, Chinese, and Urdu that were found being posted on TikTok, X, Reddit, Facebook, and other social media platforms. Yeah, this is the point. Like this, we know that this has been going on, right? We know that China has AI, Russia has AI, we have competing, there's Meta AI, there's Google Gemini, there's Grok with XAI, there's ChatGPT, which is OpenAI. There's a ton of them. There's perplexity, there's a whole bunch of different AIs that are constantly, right now,

• 2:58:38Joe Rogan?

  in competition to see who creates God.

• 2:58:42Speaker 02

  Well, and so, what you were saying earlier about the evolution of humanity and the direction we're headed, AI and that component, and there's that technological component, but there's also all the shit we're unlocking with CRISPR.

• 2:58:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:58:54Speaker 02

  And the direction we're headed, and we can now edit your genes, and I could edit your genes with CRISPR to change, so essentially, we would take a male sperm, a female egg, we create that, a clone, and we literally replicate that clone multiple times down the chain. We can now edit in roughly 20 points of IQ. So through CRISPR, you can edit somebody's intelligence by 20 IQ points. That's the difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Albert Einstein. Now, what if you do that three, four, five generations down?

• 2:59:27Joe Rogan?

  You're being so kind to Arnold Schwarzenegger.

• 2:59:29Speaker 02

  You would be able to create super humans. I don't know, but that's what it, that's what it said in, uh, what is it? Uh, the gene editing, I don't remember which.

• 2:59:36Joe Rogan?

  Is Arnold a genius?

• 2:59:38Speaker 02

  No, no, the difference, the, the big jump though is just 20 IQ points to be Albert Einstein.

• 2:59:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what's Albert at?

• 2:59:43Speaker 02

  I don't even know. This is, this is in, uh, hacking Darwin. The book hacking Darwin explains all this and the direction we're headed and how you would be able to essentially, and China's already doing this.

• 2:59:56Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 2:59:56Speaker 02

  They're already doing it.

• 2:59:57Joe Rogan?

  Guy went to jail, he's like, whoops, I didn't mean to do that.

• 2:59:59Speaker 02

  And they're editing genes to create super intelligent humans.

• 3:00:03Joe Rogan?

  They were saying they were inoculating them from HIV. Like, who's getting HIV? Shut the fuck up, bitch.

• 3:00:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:08Joe Rogan?

  And they just accidentally got smarter.

• 3:00:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so then the problem becomes, go back to like ADHD in schools and stuff in the eighties. When everyone starts creating, you know, little, uh, super humans and everyone's gonna look back, almost back to Demolition Man, what we were talking about. You're, you don't, you create a baby in a test tube because you can edit out all the gene defects and all the issues in your genetics and optimize that child's success at living a healthy, happy life. And minimizing chronic disease, but if we just add a little spice here, we can make them twice as smart.

• 3:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 3:00:43Speaker 02

  And then everyone's gonna do that.

• 3:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 3:00:45Speaker 02

  And then. And if you don't, China does, Russia does, so then where's America have to do? We have to counter punch.

• 3:00:51Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, they're probably already doing it. And the thing, like, China is so advanced with so many different technologies right now that most, most people are just not aware. They're not aware, and someone was describing that, um, about how, God, I wish I remembered the podcast it was on, but this guy was, uh, talking about how essentially what, what goes on in China is, say if they want to get into, uh, solar panels, if like they start producing solar panels, the government will get involved and say, we want you guys to make the most awesome solar panels. And then they. They have this shark tank of people competing to see who develops the best solar panel company. And only the best ones are gonna survive. And it's all funded by the guy.

• 3:01:35Speaker 02

  That's a pretty smart idea.

• 3:01:36Joe Rogan?

  It's a very smart idea and through that they've developed the best drones. Definitely the best electric cars. Out of nowhere, China has the best electric cars. Like by a mile, like by a country mile, dude. There's nothing even in America. Even if you have like one of those uh.

• 3:01:53Speaker 02

  But we got the best American muscle cars.

• 3:01:55Joe Rogan?

  We definitely do, but that's a different thing, right? But when it comes to technological innovation, they're way ahead of us. So if they're ahead of us with that, if they run the same game on AI. While we're all battling it out with each other and stealing each other's data. They're probably running that same game over there. And if they really did steal all the chat GPT database, did they? Did they, did China have access to chat GPT to um? Open AI's database? Was it speculated that there was some sort of a breach?

• 3:02:28Speaker 04

  What, what came, when I typed in breach and with those words, that's what came up is what I showed you. So something else, a different story would be a different story.

• 3:02:36Speaker 02

  Hmm, I read, I was reading too that China's beating us in the arms race of energy infrastructure. To be able to actually implement this level of AI.

• 3:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, they're running around on AI. Talking about the problem of climate change and we need to do this, we need to do that. While they're making fucking shitloads of coal factories in China. You gotta, it's like they're playing this multi-level game and they're using. All of our cultural hotspots, all the things that we like to argue about gay marriage and this and that and. Prayer in schools and you think it's organic, you think people are really fighting in the street for all these things. But it's not, it's. Other countries want us doing this, including our own country.

• 3:03:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:03:22Joe Rogan?

  One of the wild things that um representative Luna said when she was here. One, one of the wild things she said, there's a lot of problems they don't wanna solve. So that they could fundraise against them.

• 3:03:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:03:36Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, that is so dark and I believe it. I never thought about it that way, but I believe it, it makes sense. I think marijuana legalization is one of those. I think it's one of those. I think there's, there's, there's a few of those things out there that.

• 3:03:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's dark, but I think it's true. I think they don't want solutions. They want to keep their job.

• 3:03:59Speaker 02

  The big, the biggest thing that I think about is I see just in my sector of healthcare and compounding, how much AI is going to impact workplace and infrastructure and just reality. Like at, at our pharmacy, you know, we have almost 300 people and we were looking at this software. I needed to expand and hire more people. I needed 200 people. We can't hire fast enough. And I'm looking at this and we're going, if we implement this AI, we can reallocate 200 people and not have to go hire 200 people. And then we just get to promote the people who are already with us. But at what point does the AI just get to a point where it's doing all of our jobs?

• 3:04:43Speaker 02

  Like all of our jobs and it will, even in his own blog. Uh, he's talking about eight years ago, how we don't understand that this is going to replace almost all jobs in Ameri- everywhere in the world.

• 3:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Who's that dude? Is a Diary of a CEO host?

• 3:04:59Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I know who you're talking about. I don't know his name.

• 3:05:02Joe Rogan?

  But is his name Jamie?

• 3:05:03Speaker 02

  Uh, the British guy?

• 3:05:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:06Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no.

• 3:05:11Speaker 02

  And candidly, it does it better.

• 3:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Stephen Bartlett. So he was having a conversation with someone where he was saying that one of his friends, he knows someone who's like a AI guy and privately, he, he talks very different than he does publicly. Publicly, he's talking about, oh, it's going to be amazing. You know, it's going to be benefit. And but in private, he's like, this is going to be crazy and no one's ready for it. And that's what I think.

• 3:05:38Speaker 02

  Uh, I agree. And then the humanoid robots. You watching all that? Cause they're evolving quick.

• 3:05:44Joe Rogan?

  That's going to be interesting, but I think that's a side project. That's, that's like a. It's a distraction. The, the, the real thing is gonna be non-physical. The real thing is gonna be this bizarre connection that we have to this ultimate intelligence. It's gonna be pumped straight into your dome. You're not gonna wanna fuck that robot. When you're, when you're literally plugged into the matrix. Like the physical, like, sex robot that everybody dreams of. There's gonna be a few losers, like, live in the hills and, you know, wear overalls and fucking kill squirrels all day. And then they have this sex robot that come home and fuck. Maybe. I think most people are gonna integrate. And it's gonna be just like cellphones. Like, most people, you know, I know a lot of people, like, "Ah, I don't even carry a cellphone." I fucking-

• 3:06:28Speaker 02

  And think you're saying that and you have one of the most interesting, colorful lives. Imagine the person who's just fucking grinding and showing up to their job every day that they hate and-

• 3:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:40Speaker 02

  And they can escape. Like, they, they already are escaping in these virtual worlds, like, even kids. Like, it's different with ki- I, I, I, like, I've watched younger kids. Now they hang out with their friends and, like, online. Like, they don't go, like, have to ride over, like, we rode bikes over to our friends' houses and stuff. They would all hang out and play whatever that Roblox or whatever it is with their friends.

• 3:07:02Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep.

• 3:07:03Speaker 02

  In chatrooms.

• 3:07:04Joe Rogan?

  But, hey, I used to do that. I used to get online and, and play my friends on Quake. There were friends I was only friends with online. Yeah. But it's fun. You know, and when, right now, you know, you're dealing with just looking at a screen. When you're actually in the game, then things are gonna get real weird. Things are gonna get so fucking strange. Because already, these, um, like, Meta glasses, those fucking things that you put on, what are, what are the, the Oculus system? What is it called, Jamie? What does Meta call it? What, their, their, their latest and greatest virtual reality? The virtual reality headset, sorry.

• 3:07:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, Meta Quest.

• 3:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Meta Quest. Dude, pretty fucking incredible. Pretty fun. Pretty exciting, you know? And once they figure out haptic feedback, like legitimate haptic feedback, especially if, if there's some sort of an interface, if it doesn't have to be even installed, there was something- They just clamps to your forehead and gets a reading on your brain, the same way like, like when you look at your phone, it opens up because you do that stupid thing, the face ID.

• 3:08:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:08:04Joe Rogan?

  Where you like program the image of your phone on an iPhone. It just recognizes you, oh hello Brigham. Like it knows your brain signals and it's like, close your eyes and count back from ten, nine.

• 3:08:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Eight, and then you see the whole consciousness sink down. And now all of a sudden you're in a warehouse. Choose your armor, like fuck yeah. And you put an arm on.

• 3:08:27Speaker 02

  It's Black Mirror, we're gonna be living in Black Mirror.

• 3:08:30Joe Rogan?

  What the weapons do and what zombies are the most dangerous, like okay, okay. And then they just fucking open the door.

• 3:08:39Speaker 02

  It does sound fun as long as we don't all, you know, die.

• 3:08:42Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be, it's gonna be very fun, but there's always gonna be some cunt that's controlling the entire system. And this is why you have to have everything that, it's gotta be decentralized. Everything has gotta be like a blockchain, it's gotta be like Bitcoin, it has to be like that. It can't, it can't be, there's a group, once it gets to this insanely potent computing power, where it's a life form, you can't have anybody in control of it.

• 3:09:09Speaker 02

  People, think of the addiction and the dopamine response to social media.

• 3:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:09:14Speaker 02

  And multiply that times impunity.

• 3:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, times billions.

• 3:09:17Speaker 02

  We're fucked.

• 3:09:18Joe Rogan?

  You're fucked because regular life, like if you're a fucking, if you're working at a deli, you know, you're just making tuna fish sandwiches and hanging out with the boys and, you know.

• 3:09:28Speaker 02

  Hanging with the boys.

• 3:09:30Joe Rogan?

  And you get out of there and you're a knight. You're a knight and you're battling with demons and you're fucking riding a horse in Game of Thrones. Like, really? Like that's totally possible.

• 3:09:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09:45Joe Rogan?

  It's not even that far away. Because what you can see visually right now when they do these video games that are available today, the Unreal Engine is so good dude, it's so good that all it would have to do is. Be virtual and then figure out how to emulate movement and how to get you to feel like you're moving. And that's probably just manipulating some part of your brain that it scans out. It probably figures out. What, you know, maybe you have to shave your head.

• 3:10:14Speaker 02

  All this stuff, because even Elon, on here, he was talking about how he can help you see in infrared.

• 3:10:21Speaker 02

  Through this technology, we can create the impulse signals or whatever in the brain that allow you to see in infrared.

• 3:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Did you see those night vision contact lenses they've created?

• 3:10:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:10:31Joe Rogan?

  Bro, they've created night vision contact lenses. See if you find that, Jim.

• 3:10:38Joe Rogan?

  Fuckin bananas. Contacts. Put them in and now you're a wolf.

• 3:10:44Speaker 02

  But then the same thing we're talking about with. CRISPR and gene editing.

• 3:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:10:49Speaker 02

  It's gonna be the same thing when everyone has an implant and I can download jujitsu in my brain, you're at a disadvantage if you don't have the implant.

• 3:10:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that.

• 3:10:56Speaker 02

  How can you compete?

• 3:10:57Joe Rogan?

  You can't. You're gonna have to join. These contact lenses give people infrared vision even with their eyes shut. With their fucking eyes shut. That's nuts. New way of seeing infrared light without the need for chunky night vision goggles. Researchers have been the first contact lenses to convey infrared vision. The devices work even when people have their eyes closed. Holy fuck, dude. Now imagine when that's, if you're blind and they say, Brigham, um, we can actually give you eyesight. But you're gonna have like super eyesight. Like your eyesight will be way better. So people are eventually gonna get their eyeballs plucked out. And like, I'm tired of wearing readers. I'm gonna go in and get the new eyeballs.

• 3:11:40Joe Rogan?

  And you're gonna put on these Monsanto-derived eyeballs.

• 3:11:48Speaker 02

  You would be able to have eagle eye mode and he was breaking all that down where you could see at a high resolution at a distance.

• 3:11:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:56Speaker 02

  Geothermal, like you.

• 3:11:58Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you could stop it. And this is the thing about people, oh god, you're so cynical. I'm not. I'm not. I love people. I love people and I love. Life.

• 3:12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:12:07Joe Rogan?

  I think this is happening whether we like it or not, and I don't necessarily know that it's a bad thing. I think.

• 3:12:13Speaker 02

  I don't know if that's true, but James Cameron, is that a fake tweet? I reposted it cuz I'm dumbass, but it was James Cameron said, I warned you guys 30 years ago. And I reposted that. It, it was all over media, so I'm like, I don't know if it's real or not, but it's funny if he did.

• 3:12:29Joe Rogan?

  He's a clever guy. He probably did post that. He's right. So was the, you know, the really fucking scary thing? You know who was right? The fucking Unabomber was right. That was the Unabomber's whole manifesto. It was the technology is gonna kill the human race.

• 3:12:42Speaker 04

  He said it, but just not in a tweet.

• 3:12:43Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I warned you guys in 1984. You didn't listen. Uh, sure, look, I mean, you've got. Yeah.

• 3:12:50Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 3:12:50Joe Rogan?

  That's even better.

• 3:12:51Speaker 02

  Have you seen the new Alien on Hulu?

• 3:12:53Joe Rogan?

  I have been watching it, yeah. I'm on episode two.

• 3:12:55Speaker 02

  But think about that, too. You're a physical avatar, right? You're terminally ill. What if we can take your consciousness and put it into a body? Or there's not even a, there's just like a, I don't even, a humanoid biologic thing.

• 3:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:07Speaker 02

  Which is what.

• 3:13:08Joe Rogan?

  And it has to be full grown even though you're a child.

• 3:13:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:13:11Joe Rogan?

  Cuz it doesn't grow. It's weird.

• 3:13:13Speaker 02

  I like the angle they took. I thought it was really good.

• 3:13:15Joe Rogan?

  And it brings the aliens back to my favorite kind of aliens, which you don't see a lot of them, and they're scary as fuck and they're really clever. The problem with James Cameron's version of aliens is now all of a sudden they're easy to shoot? And everyone's just gunning them down. You're killing tons of them. The first alien was hiding all the time. Like, you didn't see until it wanted to be seen.

• 3:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, then you go into the den and she's literally just planting eggs and everyone.

• 3:13:37Joe Rogan?

  She's a dumbass.

• 3:13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the, the first one was like creepier.

• 3:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13:43Joe Rogan?

  It was, it was, it was a hunting alien. It was like going after people and hunting them.

• 3:13:49Speaker 02

  And the other one's Prometheus. That plays into everything we're talking about. People hated Prometheus, a lot of people, but I liked it.

• 3:13:56Joe Rogan?

  I liked it.

• 3:13:56Speaker 02

  When he literally asked his creator, the guy who invented the humanoid robot, and he asked him, "What makes you more important than me?" And he said, "Because you will die, you will wither away, you will do all these things, but I will be here, and I won't lose my consciousness. I won't lose my..." All this stuff. He's like, he's gaining. Uh, like consciousness in the moment and he's asking and that's the shit where it's like, dude.

• 3:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:23Speaker 02

  Like, we keep making things smarter and smarter and smarter. What is consciousness? We don't even know what it is.

• 3:14:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's the interesting about, thing about these movies, like the alien movies in particular, especially the television show. Cause the television show different than the movies, uh, adopted a 1970s framework for technology in 2120.

• 3:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14:44Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 3:14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so has the shitty little green screens and all that, yeah.

• 3:14:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, everything's shitty. The screens are shitty, the, the, like, the, the televisions, they're like regular old school TVs that you have to slap to get to work. It's weird. So they have like weird, and then there's the robot thing. You know, the, the robot guy who's in every one of them, like the, like synthetic robot.

• 3:15:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:15:05Joe Rogan?

  Why, why not just send all synthetic robot? Why do you have any people on this fucking thing? If you've got synthetic robots that don't die, you have aliens out there.

• 3:15:13Speaker 02

  Well, then you go back to like what a lot of the UAP whistleblowers are saying that, cause I've gotten to meet a lot of these guys too. And they start saying that grays are synthetic biologics that are almost like hive mind avatars. And again, I'm not saying I believe it, I'm not, I'm just saying it's interesting and like a lot of the stuff that's been in folklore forever. Now starts to make more and more like theoretical framework sense for why and how you would navigate some new environment.

• 3:15:44Joe Rogan?

  Especially.

• 3:15:44Speaker 02

  And why you'd leave bodies and not give a shit.

• 3:15:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:49Speaker 02

  If there's any truth to any of it.

• 3:15:50Joe Rogan?

  If there's any, but that's the problem. We're both saying if, because neither one of us have seen an alien.

• 3:15:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunately, you know?

• 3:15:58Speaker 02

  But I've talked to enough really smart people that you start going, man, and I know, I've tried to get Jamie to chime in, he's always.

• 3:16:05Joe Rogan?

  Jamie goes back and forth with it, just like I do. We have conversations about it all the time. Don't, you go, but where are you at right now?

• 3:16:11Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't know.

• 3:16:15Speaker 04

  This week, it's probably mostly bullshit, but I'm trying to, I'm not tracking it this week really, I'll be honest with you.

• 3:16:22Joe Rogan?

  But we both go back, you would agree with that, we both go back.

• 3:16:26Speaker 02

  I go back and forth, but it's mainly if I really self diagnose, it's ego. I get frustrated and I go, it's all bullshit if it was real, but there is a lot of kinks in the armor and if just statistically, I'm not saying that little green men are visiting, but there's statistically like high probability that there's intelligent life out there and then statistically, did that life have a head start and did it reach intelligent life?

• 3:16:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, and did it escape whatever the problems are with natural disasters that we experience? Cause one of the things, if there is a reset in our society, it's usually because of an asteroid impact or a suba volcano blows off or a tsunami wipes out a city. This society has to have developed technological capabilities that help negate all those things. And so, wouldn't a society like that be able to live in the ocean? And if that's the case, maybe that's what's going on. Because it seems like there's a lot of activity that that takes place in a place where we've only explored 5%. And that's the oceans.

• 3:17:31Joe Rogan?

  And there's so many sightings of these transmedium crafts, including video of things going into the water with no splash. And especially videos that were generated at a time where they didn't have the sophisticated CGI that they have today. So, you know, if I saw that today, I'd be like, well, if that's from 2025, who fucking knows who made that? That you could have made that on chat GPT in five minutes.

• 3:17:54Speaker 02

  And that's where I'm going, you talk to, I know you've interviewed Commander Fravor, I had the opportunity to meet and talk to him like in private in a group of people and his, I mean, the guy knows his shit, he knows the black ops, he knows everything and this is 20 something years ago.

• 3:18:09Joe Rogan?

  2004.

• 3:18:10Speaker 02

  And his thing is there is no way in hell. I mean, it would have been moving at 35,000 miles per hour and been transmedium.

• 3:18:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:18:20Speaker 02

  Literally 20 years ago.

• 3:18:21Joe Rogan?

  And the idea that someone is inside of that is ridiculous, like you would be Jello.

• 3:18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:18:25Joe Rogan?

  If it's a traditional propulsion system, which. Which, by the way, didn't have any signatures of a traditional propulsion system. There's no like heat blasting out the back.

• 3:18:35Speaker 02

  The craziest thing he said, though, which I didn't fully understand on the podcast, is when he kept saying it knew our set point. It knew our set point, or whatever. That's not programmed in anywhere.

• 3:18:47Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:18:47Speaker 02

  That's just in the pilot's head.

• 3:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:50Speaker 02

  So how did it know the set point?

• 3:18:52Joe Rogan?

  Did you hear what Gary Nolan said about it?

• 3:18:53Speaker 02

  No, I haven't listened to that one. I'm gonna listen to it, though.

• 3:18:56Joe Rogan?

  He said that the amount of force that it would take, so this thing is, let's just say this thing weighs two tons, which is like a car, you know, like a lot of cars are like 4,000 pounds. So this thing weighs two tons and it went from, you know, sea level to 50,000 feet above sea level in less than a second. So whether or not that's even physically possible, the amount of energy that it would take to generate to move 4,000 pounds that quickly would be the more than the total energy generated by the United States in a year.

• 3:19:33Speaker 02

  It's nuts.

• 3:19:35Joe Rogan?

  And it has to do it instantaneously.

• 3:19:36Speaker 02

  But that's when you start seeing all these things and then you layer in the Jesse stuff and all the shit, all the work Jesse's done and his deep dives into history and FOIA documents and disclosures and you just start going, what the hell?

• 3:19:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you go what the hell, but it's fun. And that's how I treat it. I treat it like it's fun because I really don't know. I love the Tridactyl Mummies. I'm fascinated by it and I think Jesse's, I think he deserves, you know, if journalism was really what it could have been today, if they had just sort of accepted independent journalism and celebrated it instead of saying like only corporate sponsored mainstream gigantic journalism is real journalism, which is obviously the opposite of what's true, Jesse would get an award. If the world was just, he would get an award. He would get an award for that particular show that he did on those Tridactyl Mummies

• 3:20:27Joe Rogan?

  because that is crazy. When they did those scans and you see the lig- and guys like Gary, who is a legitimate scientist, like published at Stanford, who's looking at that thing and saying, this doesn't make any sense. Like this looks like a real creature. Everything is in place. We don't know what it is. We don't, is that a genetic anomaly? We have to study that. This is a crazy opportunity to study. And these folks just have it in Peru. Just have a few of them laying around in the fetal position. These fucking aliens with three toes and three fingers. And it seems to be a real body. And Jesse stuck his neck out and went down to Peru and filmed these things. And they did these medical scans on them.

• 3:21:12Joe Rogan?

  So you could see what the actual, what's underneath all that, you know, white tissue looking stuff. This just sticks and...

• 3:21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, you look at it and it seems too convenient and too crazy. But then when you watch him systematically break down. And all these thought leaders and all these experts and all these different people giving their lens. And then you see these MRIs. And you're like, you didn't make those hands.

• 3:21:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:21:35Speaker 02

  Like, these would have been...

• 3:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, 1,700 years ago, you didn't make it. That's the weird thing. And how about the one of them that has a fetus inside of it?

• 3:21:43Speaker 02

  And then the name of the region?

• 3:21:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:46Speaker 02

  What the hell? What did he say the name of it? He says it in the documentary, but the name of the region is like, I don't even know, insemination and something, something. Or I'm like, what?

• 3:21:56Joe Rogan?

  Dude, those are probably aliens. And that's probably a form of human. That's probably what we're gonna find out. If they do a DNA, if someone lets them do DNA tests on those things. And there's DNA to extract and they run a sequence on it. I bet we find out that we are like them.

• 3:22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:12Joe Rogan?

  I bet they're the overlords.

• 3:22:13Speaker 02

  It'd be interesting.

• 3:22:16Joe Rogan?

  The weird thing about the Peru stuff is not just the mummies. It's the ancient architecture. It's Machu Picchu. You know, it's all these like really unexplained enormous stones. That were placed in incredible ways where everything is like tongue and groove. Like where it would respond well to earthquakes. Like a technology to avoid earthquakes with massive monolithic stones. When you're looking at them, you're like, how did you move this? Like, who did this? Who, why did you have all these art projects where you could only see them from the sky?

• 3:22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is...

• 3:22:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, all the, yeah, there's so much crazy stuff.

• 3:22:57Joe Rogan?

  What is that? And why do you have ancient artwork of these three-fingered, three-toed creatures?

• 3:23:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, you have artwork from a thousand years ago of these things. Like, it seems like they were a real thing, living in that area. And they were probably flying around. And they were probably building Pumapunku and Machu Picchu. They probably were us. It's probably a version of us. Like, if Neanderthal was alive, and then it wasn't. And then we're like, wow, we didn't even know that Neanderthal was a thing till we discovered, oh, it looks like it interbred with us. Oh, it was a part of us. So now we know that there's a Neanderthal. But 500 years ago, no one had any idea. No one had any idea that there was like, an ancient man.

• 3:23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he broke that down too. I think, isn't it like 70% of the bipedal species that we've uncovered, like, that are our relatives, have all been discovered in the last like 60 years?

• 3:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and a bunch of them have been discovered in the last decade. You know, just like, the last few years. Just recently, we were talking about that Homo the Julians, this enormous man, that they found, a huge head. They don't know how big these fucking things were. They might have been seven foot tall supermen. And there's depictions of them like, covered in hair, looking fucking jacked. Where they're trying to like, figure out what these things actually looked like. Why is it so crazy to think there might have been a version of us that looked like that? Why isn't it so crazy if we are so soft and so doughy, in comparison to gorillas? Because we're so intelligent.

• 3:24:33Speaker 02

  The metal implants, too.

• 3:24:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, we're so, we're so intelligent, and we're so advanced in comparison to them. Well, if that thing is more advanced and more intelligent than us, it's going to be, just like, you compare us to gorillas? It's gonna be like that to us. It's gonna be comparable, it's gonna be frail. And that's what they look like, just frail, super nerds. With giant heads and fucking medical implants. What's that thing in that thing's neck? Like, what is that?

• 3:25:01Speaker 02

  It's gonna get interesting too. I know that Corbella and Nap, they say they've got, I think, six witnesses, including, I thought firsthand witnesses, that are gonna testify this time?

• 3:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:25:13Speaker 02

  If it all happens.

• 3:25:15Joe Rogan?

  The weird thing is the Vargenia descriptions look exactly like those things.

• 3:25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25:21Joe Rogan?

  Three toes, three fingers. And everyone's like, "That's nonsense."

• 3:25:24Speaker 02

  The black one, it was at the black?

• 3:25:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like a purplish.

• 3:25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like a purplish color. The one that smelled, and then the guy died who touched it.

• 3:25:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:31Speaker 02

  And there's all this documented stuff that occurred.

• 3:25:33Joe Rogan?

  And they smell like sulfur.

• 3:25:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25:35Joe Rogan?

  Just like demons.

• 3:25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25:37Joe Rogan?

  It's probably what they were trying to describe. I mean, if you had some guy who came down-

• 3:25:41Speaker 02

  Representative Luna said multiple times, interdimensional, interdimensional, which is, I thought was interesting.

• 3:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but she didn't have an explanation. Like, "What do you mean? How do you know that? Why are you saying that so confidently?" Like, like, you'd have to tell me, like, how does something traverse a dimension? What's the theory?

• 3:25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25:55Joe Rogan?

  And what does that mean? Like, where is it? Is it in a physical form somewhere else? Like, another place? And it comes here? Like, what do you mean? You know, because there's a dimension of sound, there's a dimension of, like, three dimensions. Or it's like, you know, space and time and all that. We kind of have an understanding, a grasp of it. So if there's a seventh dimension, eighth dimension, does it just take a bus and get here? Like, what are you talking about? Is it here, and now it exists in this dimension and that dimension simultaneously? Like, what is it? What happens to its form over there when it comes over here?

• 3:26:24Speaker 02

  David Grush was trying to explain it to me, but I'm too dumb.

• 3:26:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck off.

• 3:26:26Speaker 02

  I'm not smart enough.

• 3:26:27Joe Rogan?

  I'm not even nearly smart enough to just talk about it.

• 3:26:29Speaker 02

  You're a three-dimensional being in a three-dimensional world? And your shadow on the ground is a two-dimensional shadow of a three-dimensional being?

• 3:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like a Madonna song.

• 3:26:37Speaker 02

  In a three-dimensional world? And I'm like, "What?"

• 3:26:40Joe Rogan?

  I'm a material girl. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 3:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know, man, but it's fun.

• 3:26:47Speaker 02

  It is fun.

• 3:26:47Joe Rogan?

  It's fun to, it's fun to talk about, and I'm glad there's guys like Jesse out there making awesome videos. And about this one, I think it's one of the most important, because it throws a giant monkey wrench into it's all nonsense. Because as soon as you see the scans of that thing's body, everyone should, it should pause, everyone should put their newspaper down and go, "What the fuck are we doing about this?"

• 3:27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Like, "What are we doing about this?" That might be what everyone's been talking about. That might be the thing that genetically engineered us. That might be it.

• 3:27:17Speaker 02

  So crazy.

• 3:27:18Joe Rogan?

  So crazy.

• 3:27:19Speaker 02

  If we're bringing back dire wolves, then-

• 3:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Bring back an alien.

• 3:27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:27:23Joe Rogan?

  They're probably already here. That's probably just one that we found, you know? They're probably here and they don't want to be seen anymore because we're assholes. And then one day, we won't be assholes. All right, brother.

• 3:27:33Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 3:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Let's wrap this up.

• 3:27:34Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me on.

• 3:27:35Joe Rogan?

  This is three and a half hours.

• 3:27:36Speaker 02

  That was, this is the longest one we've done.

• 3:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's awesome. I love you. Appreciate you very much. Appreciate what you're doing. It's an awesome company, ways2well.com. Uh, check it out, and thank you for all you're doing to try- To give people a better understanding about how fucking incredibly corrupt this whole system really is.

• 3:27:54Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me on and giving us a voice.

• 3:27:57Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, my brother. Bye, everybody.