Is It Too Late to Save My Marriage?

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A man hoping to reconcile his marriage before divorce is official · A mother struggling with feelings of disappointment following a gender reveal · A wife seeking advice on how to process a traumatic event Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  How can I reconcile with my wife after revealing my gambling addiction? I revealed how much money I lost, which was a six-figure amount. It was pretty much as a volcano ready to erupt, as you know with addictions. The last year or so was just with absolute hell.

• 0:17Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it sounds like for a year, and I can be out of line here. You may be through with the past, but the past is not through with you.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What's going on? It's 2025. Welcome back to the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm John. I'm a dad, I'm a husband. I'm trying to figure it out right alongside each and every one of you. Some of you aren't dads, some of you are moms, some of you are just brothers, sisters, just dudes. Some of you are Ben, the guy, I don't know. Ben, you just look like a awesome guy making it happen. Thanks. And can we shout out Sarah, the editor of the show? Had the first case of natural triplets I've ever heard of. She had them, uh, when I say natural, like she just didn't have IVF, like.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Right. There was no medication or any kind of.

• 1:09Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have three. But I think what's important to call out is she had all three babies on my birthday, which I think shows incredible team dedication.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  And one of them is named Benjamin.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  After me, obviously.

• 1:20Dr. John Delony?

  She didn't, I didn't even check. She didn't go with a John?

• 1:22Speaker 02

  No, there's no John, but there was a.

• 1:25Dr. John Delony?

  How's that make you feel?

• 1:26Speaker 02

  She had them on your birthday, though.

• 1:27Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, yeah, that's kind of a flex, but she clearly doesn't value her job. She didn't name one of them, she had three of them. Does she name the daughter Kelly?

• 1:35Speaker 02

  No, Adeline.

• 1:37Dr. John Delony?

  That's way.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  It's way prettier.

• 1:39Dr. John Delony?

  Both names are beautiful. Let's go out to San Francisco.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Okay, wait, uh-uh. We can't just blow past by what happened over the holidays.

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  What happened?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  We hit a million.

• 1:53Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, we got a million. We did it.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Our listeners are amazing.

• 1:55Dr. John Delony?

  We did it. Yes, yes, yes. We did it. Um, sorry, man. There's a lot that happened. It was a wild holiday in the Deloney House. And I was like, oh, no, what does she know? What does she know? What does she know? Um, no, it's, uh, yeah, dude, we hit a million. It was so great. And, um, 1,000% of this is because of you, the listener. Thank you all so much for being in our gang. And one of my favorite things in the world is being all across the country, meeting somebody and them shaking my hand and saying, I'm one of the OG 17. And that makes my heart feel so cool. That, that means you've been with us for a long time. But man, we hit the million mark and we're just getting rolling, which is awesome. As the great Limb Biscuit once said, we're just rolling, rolling, rolling. Now, can we go to San Francisco?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  You may.

• 2:41Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Let's talk to Jim. What's up, J I M in San Francisco?

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Hi. Good morning. Happy New Year.

• 2:47Dr. John Delony?

  You too, man. Happy New Year. What's going on?

• 2:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Um, well, I just wanted to say I've been listening to your show for about a month and I really appreciate, um, how perceptive you are and your empathy. And congratulations on the one million mark. I just heard that right now.

• 3:01Dr. John Delony?

  Well, thank you, brother. I appreciate it. And, um, welcome to our cult. And, uh, we'll send you some, we'll send you a jug of Kool-Aid here. Uh, you get off the phone. What's up, brother? How can I help, man?

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, um, I will start the question and we'll dig a little deeper. Um, so the question is, um, how can I reconcile with my wife after revealing my gambling addiction, um, which was back in December of 2023? And working in recovery for over a year now?

• 3:28Dr. John Delony?

  Um, tell me about it.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. So we'll start with the 30,000 foot view. Um, so I'm 47 years old. Um, I was a compulsive gambler from 2017 to 2023. So about seven years, which I hid from my wife. Um, sports gambling was the game of choice. Uh, been a casual gambler for, um, a good portion of my life, probably since middle school. Uh, it's well announced. It's like office pools, fantasy sports, side bets, March Madness, stuff like that, occasional trips to Vegas. Um, I revealed the addiction to my wife, um, in December of 2023, as I already mentioned. Uh, a letter came from one of my personal lenders and she was questioning about it. And so I... It was pretty much as a volcano ready to erupt as you know with addictions like the last year or so was just was absolute hell.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Uh, with all these things coming in the mail and I was like hiding and making up all these stories. Um, I, I revealed how much money I lost, which was a six figure amount. Um, and some other financial misgivings. Um, we have three small children. Uh, their ages eight, five and two, boy, girl, girl. Uh, my wife has not worked in 10 years, so I pretty much worked two jobs. Uh, I work as an educator. Down in the Bay area, but my family lives up in Sacramento, so I can explain that situation in a little bit as we dig deeper. Uh, my wife is an amazing stay at home mother. Uh, she runs a phenomenal household, uh, but again, she's not worked in, um, nearly a decade. Um, she was devastated, um, when I revealed all this to her. Um, I mean, I lied to her often.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Uh, I was not present as a father. Um, and she actually did question me about this back in February 2022. So. And I kind of made some stories and said, okay, well, yeah, I, um, I was gambling, but I broke even and. You know, just, you know, you lie as you do when you're in addiction and, um, and. Well, the survival mode for quite some time and then of course, you know, the anxiety, all those things to start, um, building up in you. Um, but, uh, yeah, and again, we've been married for, um, a little over 10 years, but we've been separated for the past year. Um, I've been going to GA. Um, I, I went to GA right after I revealed the addiction to her in December of last of, uh, 2023.

• 5:36Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, stop, stop real quick. Why, why are you separated?

• 5:42Speaker 00

  So, um, so she filed for divorce, um, in January 21 of 2024. So after a few weeks after I revealed. Um, the gambling addiction to her, um, she initially said that we were going to work as a team. Um, but I guess just after a few days when she saw just all the stuff I'd done and. All the debts and the lies, um, she just, um, and there were some previous ruptures in the marriage.

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  I was gonna say that there's, there's almost always in this case, this. For whatever reason, uh, I mean, I can guess some reasons, I can speculate, but gambling addiction revelations have.

• 6:21Dr. John Delony?

  There's often the spouse responds differently than like multiple affairs or even drug or alcohol addiction. So that tells me there was probably, maybe not, but probably other things going on in your marriage for a long time.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  There was.

• 6:36Dr. John Delony?

  And as anyone who struggles with addiction for seven years of any kind.

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  It like when you reveal that, right? Then your wife almost like, I think of like, uh, you ever seen Star Wars one?

• 6:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:48Dr. John Delony?

  You're from the Bay area, you probably all watch that show. That was a, that was a very generalized statement I just made about all the tech guys, but they all watched Star Wars.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 6:55Dr. John Delony?

  But, uh, there's that scene at the very end when the, when the, when the tie fighters go down to get the death star and everything just goes. And when somebody's with somebody in, in, in addiction and I always imagine that scene like as all these lights just go by and their last seven years go in reverse. And they're like, oh my gosh, like everything becomes clear in that moment. You get what I'm saying? And there has to have been other stuff going on. Were you abusive?

• 7:25Speaker 00

  No, no, not at all. Um, no, no physical abuse, no verbal abuse. I'm like probably the nicest guy I'll ever meet. Um, but I, I do have an issue with avoidance. Um, I do keep things to myself. Um, um, just, you know, there was other, uh, I, I, I mean, kind of tell you, um, some other things like I would unilaterally make financial decisions without consulting. My wife, um, there were other financial issues like involving my parents that didn't tell my wife that created, um, some hardship for us when we had to buy a house. Um, I mean, I can get into more of those details if you want to, but, uh, but there were, yeah, I mean, she didn't feel, she was treated as an equal or as a partner with, um, other financial decisions.

• 8:05Dr. John Delony?

  I think it's, I think it's way deeper than that.

• 8:09Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it's, it's one of those moments that she knows something's not right for a long, long time. And when you put on the table, it's like, oh my gosh, this is not, he's not who I, I thought he was, right? Um, and then, so she files for divorce, but I guess y'all didn't go through with it. I guess she held.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Well, so she hired an attorney, um, around this time last year and then, um, and she told me she wanted to have this meeting with her father and her sister. It was on a Sunday afternoon and then, uh, I just thought we were talking about finances and then she hits me with, um, divorce and then, uh, and then of course I was like begging and pleading and then she's like, yeah, but it's not just the gambling. It's all the other things that, you know, you, um, yeah, you've never been honest with me. Um, well, not never, but there's, you know, many times you've not been honest with me. Um, you've, um, um, you know, stonewalled me, uh, you know, lack of communication, lack of transparency, um, emotional insecurity, those are a lot of some of the other deeper things that have been going on. Um, but yeah, then a few days later I got served papers and then, um, we've been kind

• 9:09Speaker 00

  of going through the process, but, um, you know, we're now in a nesting arrangement with our kids. So as I said, I work down in the Bay Area, but they live up in Sacramento. So I'm down here four or five days a week. Uh, I stay with my parents, um, then I go back to my house on Friday night and then my wife leaves and she stays with her, her, her family lives up there. Um, she stays at either her parents or sister's house and I'm with the kids on Saturdays and then she comes back Sunday night. We just kind of do it all over again. That's kind of the hamster wheel we've been on. Um, and you know, she, she has, uh, obviously, you know, uh, when you go through the process, there's, um, financial disclosures, all these things. So I gave her everything back in the summer. She's had a few months to look at it and then, but you know, it's a lot of stuff, right?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  I mean, it's, it's many years of, um, financial documents to look through and I guess it can't make sense of it. So she reached, her attorney reached out to my attorney and said like, hey, can we have a settlement hearing? Um, and our settlement hearing, and interestingly, it was on January 21st of this year. It's exactly a year after, um, we have a settlement hearing coming up.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  So, well, your, your original question?

• 10:11Speaker 00

  My, my original question, yes. Um, how can I reconcile with my wife? Cause I do-

• 10:18Dr. John Delony?

  Bro, you're, she's, she's divorced you. You're in, like, you're, you're the tail end of a proceeding.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  We're the tail end of the proceeding, yes.

• 10:26Dr. John Delony?

  So it's, I mean, it sounds like for a year, like, and, and man, I hate to link these, okay? And I can be out of line here.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Sure, go ahead, please.

• 10:35Dr. John Delony?

  But one of the, one of the telltale signs of someone who is falling off a cliff into gambling addiction is an inability to recognize a loss in progress.

• 10:50Dr. John Delony?

  And I feel like you're experiencing this in real time. I mean, do you have any indication on planet Earth at all? That your wife is doing anything other?

• 11:03Dr. John Delony?

  Than progressing at a somewhat rapid clip these days with how long divorces take?

• 11:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:10Dr. John Delony?

  For a settlement hearing? One calendar year, that's not, that's not super slow?

• 11:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:20Dr. John Delony?

  So, man, like, it feels like you're spending a lot of energy trying to figure out how to solve this thing. And the thing has a period at the end of it, as far as she's concerned. As far as her attorney, as far as your attorney, I mean, everybody's got a period at the end of it, but you. And it sounds like you're not living in that reality yet. Am I off?

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Um, kind of, I mean, I, I will say, I have experienced, um, I mean, it, the year 2024 was, was, it's obviously a challenging year, but a good year in the sense that I did experience a lot of character change, you know, by going to, you know, I attend three or four meetings per week.

• 11:55Dr. John Delony?

  It's amazing. I'm super proud of you, by the way. That's awesome. It's awesome.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  And I got a sponsor a few months ago. I read literature. I'm a more present dad than I was before, where I'd like not pay attention to my kids, I'd be on my phone looking at, you know, sports stats or things like that. Income's gone up by 32%, debt's gone down. Uh, I've been, my wife and I, we do work well together with the finances, with the house, uh, with the kids, with the education. So we've been communicating well with that. And, you know, we're in the house at the same time, uh, many times, because, you know, we are in a nesting arrangement. And, um, you know, again, like, it's this weird situation.

• 12:30Dr. John Delony?

  Have you taken her to coffee and said, do you want to still be my wife?

• 12:34Speaker 00

  I've not done that, no.

• 12:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, that, anything other than that is you creating a fantasy and really trying to hang on to it tightly?

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:43Dr. John Delony?

  And short of that hard conversation? Because here's the other deal, you might get the terrifying clarity that you've been trying to avoid for a year.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Probably, yeah, you're right.

• 12:54Dr. John Delony?

  But you, maybe she's like, yeah, I've been waiting for you to ask.

• 12:59Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know another thing to do. Y'all are being civil. Y'all are acting like adults, which I'm super proud of you. You're working your butt off to change who you are.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 13:08Dr. John Delony?

  Like, from the inside out, man, to heal. That's amazing. And there's still this humongous blind spot. There's that old, um, it's one of the most haunting movie lines I can ever remember. It's from the movie Magnolia, Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And it just repeats throughout the film. You may be through with the past, but the past is not through with you.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Oh, I like that.

• 13:28Dr. John Delony?

  You may be a radically different man on the road to transforming everything, and yet, seven years plus the dating relationship you had with your wife, the consequence of that may, may go with you. So I think, I think the bigger challenge is that you not become one of these guys in recovery who are only doing it for some other outcome. Cause you know that, you know those guys and it doesn't work.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  Right, right. I see a lot of people relapse. Um, and I have to do this for myself. I get that. Like, it's been all about my personal growth because, you know, I have to be a better version of myself. If I do want to be a better father, better partner to either my wife or someone else down the road, I have to be, it has to start with me and I have to want it. And I am intrinsically motivated.

• 14:14Dr. John Delony?

  But listen, Jim, those two things are external. And if you've listened to this show for five seconds, you know, I'm pretty obsessive about people being good parents and about people being good marriage partners. But you have to go through this process because you deserve peace.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:31Dr. John Delony?

  Not so that you can be a better dad and be a better this. Those are external metrics. You've got to do this for your spirit, for your soul, for your chest, for your, whew. Otherwise, you're just getting on another treadmill and another treadmill and another treadmill.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  No, and I agree. I mean, it's, um, I will say I was riddled with anxiety, um, the last year and a half, uh, after my wife had some questions about it, about two years prior to the revelation of how bad it really was. This is back in February 2022. Um, that, that timeframe until December 2023, yeah, no, it was hell. Um, and I am more at peace. Um, you know, they have that Serendipity Prayer, you know, when you go to the, the meetings where they talk about, um, the Serendipity, accept the things you cannot change, courage to change things you can, was another difference. And that really sticks with me because I, I do feel less anxious now, um, which is great.

• 15:23Dr. John Delony?

  You're less anxious because you had your catharsis. You lance the boil, right? You got, you open the infection up so it could, it could drain. And that always feels better. But my fear is you're, you had done all this work and you're like, look, look, look, look, look, assuming or expecting that she's gonna go, you're right.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  True, yeah, no, I would agree.

• 15:45Dr. John Delony?

  And so I think you've gotta make space in your sobriety for staying sober when she says, um, I'm buying you out of this house. My dad's writing you a check. You're not welcome here anymore. When she says, I've met somebody else. You've gotta, you've gotta, you've gotta have a space for sobriety there because there's nothing in your story that tells me anything other than y'all are heading for a mediation on the 21st, a settlement, and your attorney's gonna recommend you write her a check and everybody move on. Do you hear what I'm saying?

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I mean, no, that's, that's the, um, harsh reality.

• 16:29Dr. John Delony?

  So I, I mean, I, if I'm you, um, there's that, it's one of my favorite quotes ever. It is conflict deferred is conflict amplified. Hard conversations put off simply create way more, um, way bigger explosions. And so, man, I, I can't recommend enough that you say, hey, um, can we go grab coffee?

• 16:54Speaker 00

  Well, I was thinking of doing that, right? Yeah, that, that's, that's my, yeah, that's what I was considering doing.

• 17:00Dr. John Delony?

  And you should feel real anxious, you should feel real nervous, and I want you to practice in a sober, sober, with a sober mind, head directly into that anxiety. And call your sponsor before, call your sponsor right after, but head directly through it, brother. And sit down and say, I still wanna be your husband. We're heading towards this settlement. Do you still, is there any chance you still wanna be my wife?

• 17:23Speaker 00

  And I will say, I did approach the topic of reconciliation in March of last year, like only after two months of recovery.

• 17:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  And she was like, you're crazy. And then she just unloaded on all these previous ruptures, which I wasn't quite present to, which was great to hear. But she was just like, yeah, you're just nuts. And then, of course, then we, all the crap that comes with the divorce stuff, which is really not great, you know, like the custody mediation and she took attorneys midway through because she wasn't happy with the first attorney and then all those, and then, you know, then balls in the court and now this is what she wants. They said, okay, well, we have to sit down and talk.

• 17:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, so. I want you to, like, with fervor, chase reality. Solve for reality right now. What is actually true? And I might have to practice being sober in that reality, and that's gonna be really hard. And I thought meetings have been hard for the last year, but they weren't as hard because I was working towards getting back what was. What was is gone. Even if she comes back to you, your marriage is completely new because she knows you as somebody who lied to her face for seven years and hid things and put her and her kids at financial and, like, emotional risk, significant risk.

• 18:43Dr. John Delony?

  And so, there's gonna be years of trust rebuilding, even if she says, yes, I'm interested in being your wife again, but nothing you're telling me suggests that at all. In fact, the opposite, you know, I'm moving towards closure here. And so, man, for your sake, having that direct conversation with a loving spirit and a gentle spirit, and she might look at you and say, no, don't ask again, please. That's the best path, best path forward. Otherwise, you are just trying to solve for fiction, for fantasy. It's not real. And if she says, yeah, then call me back, dude, because then there's gonna be some, some pretty red steps y'all take together towards reconciliation, towards coming back together, towards rebuilding something completely new.

• 19:28Dr. John Delony?

  I can walk alongside you there, but y'all aren't there yet. Right now, you're at, do I need to accept the reality that has just come and torched me like a speeding train? Or is there a possibility that she's gonna change her mind to last minute? I hope so, man. I'm a romantic at heart, dude. I really hope that's what happens. But I don't see any indication here, man. Thanks for the call, my brother. Call me back anytime. We'll be right back.

• 19:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, good folks, Lent is just a few weeks away. And if you haven't heard of Lent, it's a practice that goes back centuries. And it's when Christians all over the world get ready for Good Friday and Easter through different kinds of prayer, meditation, and fasting. It's about getting rid of the things or habits in your life that get in the way of knowing God and of living a full, joyful life. So whether you grew up in the Christian tradition and want to experience Lent in a whole new way, or you think all of this sounds crazy and you just want to learn more, check out Hallow's Lent Pray 40 Challenge. The Lent Pray 40 Challenge walks you through great stories and guided prayers. Last year, more than a million people around the world prayed with Hallow every day during Lent,

• 20:37Dr. John Delony?

  and this year will be even bigger and better. Plus, right now, you can get three months of Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world, for free when you sign up at hallow.com/daloni. And that means your trial will last all through Lent. When you join, you can check out over 10,000 of their guided prayers and meditations. So download the app and sign up at hallow.com/daloni to get notified when the Lent Pray 40 Challenge begins. That's hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W, dot com slash daloni for three months of Hallow absolutely free.

• 21:13Dr. John Delony?

  Good folks, the modern world exposes us to things that were unheard of until just a few decades ago. And I don't mean endless streams of cat videos or AI influencers. I'm talking about screens in our homes and offices, fluorescent lights, EMFs, these things that can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bond Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF-blocking gear. I use Bond Charge products all of the time, literally every single day, and I love them. And here's why you'll love them too. Studies show red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress, and help with sleep. It can help your recovery from aches and pains, transform your skin,

• 21:56Dr. John Delony?

  and even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket... The EMF mat and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. Like I said, I use them every day. You can also check out Bond Charge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to bondcharge.com/deloney and use coupon code DELONY to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E, bondcharge.com/deloney and use coupon code DELONY to save 15%.

• 22:36Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Let's go to Augusta, Georgia and talk to Eleanor. Hey Eleanor, what's up?

• 22:41Speaker 04

  Hey there. Ultimately, my question for you, Dr. John, is I find myself, I'm pregnant for a third time with a third baby girl. So I currently have two girls and the third one's on the way.

• 22:59Speaker 04

  And ultimately, that's been a harsh reality to accept. I wouldn't even say accept is fully in my vocabulary yet.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  In a preface to this discussion, I did want to say I recognize just how lucky I am to be struggling with this exact situation because I know so many are not, would be, you know, kind of their lucky stars to be in my exact situation.

• 23:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but that doesn't minimize your pain.

• 23:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's what I have to tell people.

• 23:31Dr. John Delony?

  It's okay. It's okay. Tell me, why, why such a heavy heart over having a third baby girl?

• 23:39Speaker 04

  I'm going to apologize because I'm going to be teary eyed.

• 23:41Dr. John Delony?

  No, you're okay. David C., you were just talking on the phone, so you can have all the tears you want.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  You're gonna hear it, I'm sure.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  I don't have easy pregnancies and we have really, really challenging newborn phases. All of my children, so far and projected by professionals, will be born with something called severe infantile reflux, which is just, you know, acid reflux for you and me can be deadly in an infant.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  And so first baby was almost admitted to the NICU is like a four month old to have a feeding tube and...

• 24:26Speaker 04

  The choice to have another child

• 24:30Speaker 04

  comes with an incredible weight of six months of just really intense colic medical appointments, you know, and it's something they'll grow out of, but it's a very, very intense newborn period. Um, as it is with anybody, but just an extra layer of it. And so I think the disappointment is that I had even, you know, told my husband years ago, it's like, I, I want two children and I'm done. And we didn't even find out the gender of our second child until she was born. Um, because I was so dead set on having two and there was just a deep

• 25:15Speaker 04

  gut wrenching, there was, I'm not done yet. My family's not done yet. And this hope of, you know, please let us have a chance to have a boy.

• 25:25Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, so that's, so you, you, you, in your head, the picture of your family included a little boy?

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Always, yes.

• 25:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So when you found out you're having a third girl, y'all, y'all made a decision, hey, we're gonna go through hell again. We know, and, and y'all aren't like first year, first time parents where it's like a lot of like Googling and a lot of like people telling you horror stories at the water cooler at the office. Y'all know, this is awful.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, the newborn period that God had for us was

• 25:58Speaker 04

  uh, way worse than anybody could have ever described.

• 26:01Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  But they grow through it. Thank God they grow through it.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  And you just, you, you have a very real it's like you've been in two rounds with Mike Tyson and you're not knocked out. And so like, oh, I know what's about to happen in round three. Here we go. Right?

• 26:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, basically. And I just felt like I'm a very faithful person. I felt like, um,

• 26:30Speaker 04

  My prayers are, God, if I take this, this chance again, please let, you know, let our family grow to what we have pictured. And, and I also have just the most wonderful husband. Um, I could, I, I pray that any young woman that's searching finds, you know, a guy like mine one day. Um, I'm so friggin lucky. And to not see him get the chance to pass that on to his own little boy cripples me. Um, and I think that's just...

• 27:04Dr. John Delony?

  So what I would tell you is, you've got permission to be sad. You, you have permission that, that you had a picture that's not, and you did all the things in your power to manifest this, this thing, right? You prayed for it. Um, you like wished for it really hard. You went again, like, you know, you're gonna put your body through tough times. And often with, with this kind of severe, when your baby's in pain, and you've got two other little ones, you know, the postpartum risk is higher. Have you experienced that in the past too?

• 27:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So, Ike,

• 27:42Dr. John Delony?

  I think being sad is okay. And if, if for nothing else, have that permission. And what I will tell you is, I haven't met anybody, I'm sure they exist. I'm confident that some people are gonna blow up the comments of this thing, fine. By the way, will you make me a promise not to read the comments on this particular call?

• 27:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, yeah, I know people are gonna be, oh, this poor child gets born into a family where they're not, that's not the case.

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  No, I know, not the case at all. And you're gonna want this baby, and you're gonna be a great mom.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Absolutely. It's just, there's also this, this heartache that I can't, I, I have found, and this is through my PPD, you know, my postpartum depression experience was, the more I pretend everything's okay, the harder it becomes for it to not be okay, and to actually heal through it.

• 28:28Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  And so this is the first time I'm actually taking a socially unacceptable thing to say. It's like, I'm not excited about having another baby.

• 28:39Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. So let me tell you, there's millions of mothers who have that same, ugh, or husbands, dads who have that same, ugh. Not, it was not my picture. And...

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  It doesn't mean you're broken or wrong. If the baby's born and you reject this kid, yeah, then you got a problem. But that's not gonna be you, right? Your disappointment is okay. It's what happens if you choose to meditate on that disappointment. If every discomfort you have, every kick you have in your tummy, every doctor appointment you have, if you begin to hate and rage, that's when you need to go sit down with somebody and take some professional precautions there, okay?

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 29:28Dr. John Delony?

  Because right now, just being sad, like, oh, my gosh, there was supposed to be this picture. That's the same as, I mean, I don't wanna minimize it. The story of being a parent is I have a picture for what my family's gonna look like, and that picture almost is never realized.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:42Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so you find grief, which is right. And what we often don't feel, and society especially tells us it will never come, is that there's healing on the other side of this. You'll laugh again.

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:56Dr. John Delony?

  This third little girl will be chaos and a mess and super fun. Or she'll be quiet and reserved and oh, thank God.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:04Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And for whatever it's worth, last night, I had dinner with one of my closest friends, it was a couple of friends, and all three of their kids came over. He is the most avid sports fan I know. The most avid sports fan. And all three of his young daughters showed up. And he loves them, and they are so fun and so brilliant. And so these things that I thought I wanted, I think the key to life is keep being open-handed about what you get, what we get.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so your grief's okay. Do you have, I'm gonna ask you a really hard question. Do you already have a name?

• 30:46Speaker 04

  No, and that's part of, I have...

• 30:48Dr. John Delony?

  Did you already have a name for that little boy?

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:52Dr. John Delony?

  What was the name?

• 30:54Speaker 04

  I don't wanna say it, cuz I don't wanna

• 30:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 30:57Speaker 04

  have to keep crying that I don't get to use it.

• 30:59Dr. John Delony?

  Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to write him a letter.

• 31:07Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to write him a letter and said, "I thought you were coming to our house. You went to somebody else's house."

• 31:15Dr. John Delony?

  "And we're gonna miss you. And we know you're gonna have a great, great, great life.

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  And you better not marry my daughter."

• 31:29Dr. John Delony?

  Because here's the deal, that's, it's, it's, you're grieving it as a loss. You already have a name, you had a face.

• 31:35Speaker 04

  Well, that's something that happens. I don't...

• 31:37Dr. John Delony?

  You had a smell.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  Your wife experienced this, is... Each of my pregnancies, I had very vivid dreams.

• 31:44Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Of, you know, the gender baby I was holding.

• 31:49Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  I could see their face and it felt so real. And that's, I'm actually, I was convinced I was pregnant with a boy and I think that's...

• 32:06Speaker 04

  That's another layer of all of this. It just, it feels like I have lost a person because that, it was so clear.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  You, you, you, you lost a dream.

• 32:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:19Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm a, I'm a believer in, in grieving lost dreams too.

• 32:23Speaker 04

  Oh, gosh.

• 32:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? But listen, if you don't let, if you don't let this picture you have,

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  if you don't let this person, if you don't let this, this experience, this picture, this, this dream metabolize.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:41Dr. John Delony?

  My fear is you hand it to this sweet, amazing, new daughter you're about to have for her to carry and it's not hers to carry.

• 32:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. And that's, I think that's ultimately why I called you is that

• 32:54Speaker 04

  I knew that the weight of what I'm feeling is too heavy for the phase of, I have a propensity to postpartum depression. It's like I can't be wrestling with all this and the biochemistry that's about to come.

• 33:09Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. So let's do this. Let's do this. You have an amazing husband? Do you have girlfriends?

• 33:15Speaker 04

  A couple.

• 33:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 33:18Dr. John Delony?

  I want that to be the, the chief focus of the next two to three months for you. Getting other women in your life that you can text, call, talk to, chit chat with, whatever. Okay?

• 33:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:31Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to honor them.

• 33:35Dr. John Delony?

  We rob people when we don't ask for help because it's one of the greatest gifts in the world we can get, we can, we can, we can receive is when somebody says, hey, can you help me? That's a great gift. Not so great when they ask you to help them move, but any other requests. I want you to find a couple of women that you say, hey, I'm gonna text you. Crazy hours of the night.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  I hear ya. This is, this is my hesitation towards what you're asking me. And there's other people that probably are in the same shoe that need to hear your answer. I psychologically have been through a battlefield in the last year. The, if I were to ask for support from friends in that way, what ends up happening is the minefield that I open up chases people away because it's just too heavy.

• 34:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and, but, hold on. Yeah, your friends aren't to throw grenades to. Okay?

• 34:36Speaker 04

  It's chased a few people away that were my support, which is why I'm hesitant to answer that question because the friendship landscape has changed recently.

• 34:48Dr. John Delony?

  It has changed, but did your, did your burdens chase people away? The things that you're challenged with chase them away? Or was it your will, your lack of willingness to go head into these challenges? To go meet with a therapist, to go meet with a doctor?

• 35:03Speaker 04

  The burden, yeah.

• 35:04Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 35:07Speaker 04

  I, I do because I was, I was doing those things that you're saying and I was reaching out in these friendships. And so now I'm at this weird place where I have to be very trepidatious about what I share.

• 35:22Dr. John Delony?

  That's not true, that's not true, but you have to be willing to deal with it when it gets heavy. Here's what I mean.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  If you have somebody, you're saying, I'm having an anxious attack because, an anxiety attack and I'm pregnant again, I got two knuckleheads running around, ah! And one of your friends texts you and says, thank you so much for sharing, have you gone for a walk? And you say, I can't, right? Or, I'm thinking about hurting myself. Okay, cool, I'm calling the doctor. No, no, no, you can't call the doctor. If you're really my friend, you can't call the doctor.

• 35:57Dr. John Delony?

  So if you're putting heavy, heavy burdens on people and they're willing to walk with you, but you won't go do the next thing, which is I need to go talk to a physician, I need to go talk to a psychiatrist, I need to go talk to my OBGYN right now, I need to go for a walk, then people begin to back out because they've reached the end of what they can do to help you. Do you get what I'm saying?

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:20Dr. John Delony?

  What I don't want you to do is to look at the next six months as a automation. Like this is just, I'm on a boat on a river that I've been down before and this is, there's an inevitability to what's about to happen.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 36:37Dr. John Delony?

  What I would love for you to do is say, okay, I got in that same boat the first two times. I'm gonna try a different boat this time. Doctor, I want an exercise routine and I want somebody to call when I start having tough thoughts. I'm gonna be silly about sleep. I'm gonna call a high school kid to come over and play with my little ones while I can take a nap. Like, I don't know what, I don't know what must be true in your world for, to be well, but what if you, what if you flipped it and said, these are gonna be non-negotiables because I negotiated on them last time and I saw that end result?

• 37:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:14Dr. John Delony?

  Because I hear in your voice like a resignation.

• 37:19Speaker 04

  I think I've tried everything I know to do.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Um, it's, um, we're in, sorry, back it up. We're an ex-military family. Um, so we're new-ish to an area. Um, and when you don't have deep roots somewhere, those connections to just be able to call somebody and pull that trigger to get the help, it's not always an easy thing.

• 37:49Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. It's tough.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  It's, it's, and it's not that I'm unwilling. I'm absolutely willing. I just...

• 37:55Dr. John Delony?

  When's the last time you went and talked to a professional licensed counselor?

• 37:59Speaker 04

  Oh, last week. Yeah, I'm not kidding. It's been a minefield. I'm on all the, you know, check all the boxes on the programs, but...

• 38:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm with you. I'm with you. I want you to go...

• 38:11Speaker 04

  I'm doing everything I can, but my life can only, you know, if it just doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

• 38:18Dr. John Delony?

  I got you. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to sit with your counselor and I want you to tell your therapist. That I had some friendships that I blew up over the last year. That they didn't seem able to hold my friendship, the needs I have. And I want to work on that. I need to find out, I need to parse through with you and should help me look at this from a different angle. Was it me? Was it my friends? Was it, was I not doing like, what was it? Cause maybe your friends are jerks, they're like, I don't deal with your drama. And they left, fine, let them go. Or it was, man, we keep, we keep wanting to walk alongside you, but you're not willing to take another step. You just want us to, you just want to like dump your trash in our yard and we're not going to do that. But talk with your counselor about it.

• 39:03Dr. John Delony?

  Work through those things individually. Work through them. I think that's been fantastic. And I guess, yeah, it, it, it is so easy for me on this side of this to say that, I know that. But when I know I've experienced something once and I've experienced something twice. I guess maybe it's a personality thing. I don't want to just give into the inevitability. Then I'll do it all different next time. I'm gonna do all of it different next time and just see, because I already know what's going to happen here. Maybe I can get lucky with the other side of it. And that's not an indictment on you not doing any work. I know you've been working your butt off for the last year. Millions and millions and millions and millions of people have been working so hard. But sometimes it's just a realization, all right, that way didn't work.

• 39:46Dr. John Delony?

  That way's not working, so I'm gonna try it this way. And you are, have an amazing husband, which is awesome. And there's gonna come a moment when you guys continue to lean in. Here's your two letters. I want both of you and your husband to write a letter to this little boy. You'll have a name, you had it picked out. And cheer this little boy on wherever this little boy happens to be in, in the cosmos. And then I want you to write a letter to this little girl. Your new baby that's coming. How much you're gonna love her, what kind of life she's gonna have, how amazing her child is gonna be. And begin to prayer, prep yourselves for, we're gonna be super girl dads. Super girl moms, girls everywhere in the house.

• 40:34Dr. John Delony?

  And when that baby's born, she's gonna be ready to rock and roll into a house that cannot wait for her to be there. But right now, it's okay to be sad. She's gotta be bummed out. Picture was different. Thanks for the call. Call anytime. We'll be right back.

• 40:47Dr. John Delony?

  All right, so I've done some soul searching recently, and I've come to the realization that I actually love the internet. Just kidding. It's the worst. It's amazing, but it's the worst. But it doesn't matter if I think it's the worst. Everything in my life takes place over the internet. My work, my personal messages and communications. I buy most things on the internet now. It's where I live, and it's where you live too. And because so much of our lives take place on the internet now, it's become normal to give away our email addresses to random companies who then turn them around and sell them to other companies. Or it's become normal to create all sorts of accounts for banking and shopping and social media. We even order our food and schedule our garbage pickup online now.

• 41:31Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, whether you like it or not, your personal information is everywhere across the world wide web. And this is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. With all of that online activity, who knows where our data is and who has access to it? Chances are high that data brokers buy everything about you, and they watch every move you make on the internets, and they're selling it to bad guys. But, my friends at Delete Me will find and remove your personal data from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. And they'll send you detailed reports throughout the year, showing exactly what they removed and where from. So while we can't really avoid the internet, we can make our personal data personal again with Delete Me.

• 42:16Dr. John Delony?

  Individual Delete Me plans start as low as $9 a month. So go to joindelete.me/deloney today and get 20% off. That's J-O-I-N. Joindelete.me/deloney.

• 42:32Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back. Check this out. Big announcement. Money and Marriage Getaway. My favorite event that I'm a part of is happening again this fall with me and Rachel Cruz. Every marriage needs intentional time away to disconnect from life's busyness to reconnect. Talk about sex, intimacy, how to communication, fighting, all of it. I think, kind of biased, is the best marriage conference on the planet. You're gonna come to Nashville. You and your spouse are gonna come for three days of laughter, hard conversations, some tears, intentional time together, and lots of practical teaching. And we set this thing up. We limit the number of people who can come. We could sell a jillion tickets and just, I don't know, download all this and do this. That's not the point of this thing.

• 43:17Dr. John Delony?

  We want everyone to get every question they have answered. So there's tons of access to me and Rachel Cruz, lots of times for question and answers. Early bird tickets start at 749 bucks. Every time we launch this event, tickets sell out ASAP. So you gotta hurry. November 6th through 8th, 2025. November 6th through 8th, 2025, 749 bucks. That's for the whole couple. All you gotta do is get yourself to Nashville. You're gonna stay here for a couple of nights. And we let you go Saturday at noon-ish in the afternoon. So then you can go hang out in downtown Nashville together, make it a long weekend. November 6th through 8th. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. These will sell out. They always do. Get them ASAP.

• 44:01Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go to Tucson, Arizona and talk to McCall. What's up, McCall?

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Hi, Dr. John. I feel so grateful to be talking to you today.

• 44:11Dr. John Delony?

  I feel grateful to talk to you. What's up?

• 44:14Speaker 04

  I am calling because I cannot seem to move past the anxiety I feel after witnessing my neighbor take his own life.

• 44:27Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, McCall, you're not supposed to see that.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:36Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Um, so it was, it was a weird situation. Um, my family was packing up to go to an outdoor movie that our town was putting on at the time and we had just moved there. And so I, I didn't even know him. Um, but I had run inside to get a blanket and, um, as I was inside, I heard the, some, some commotions and yelling and a pop and I immediately knew it was a gunshot and I ran outside and my little boy had actually seen the whole thing. Um, he said, "That guy shot him, that guy shot him."

• 45:19Speaker 05

  And so, um, I had just seen a man laying on the ground and I didn't even bother to close the front door. We all just hopped in the car and left. Um, and so for about 15 minutes, I thought it was a murder. Um, and the police came with no sirens, the ambulance came with no sirens and I was so confused and they'd let me know that it was actually a suicide situation. And so, um, I got myself and my son into therapy right after that. My other kids didn't really see it, but they, um, they, they, we didn't think that they

• 45:59Speaker 05

  needed therapy and they're doing fine, but my, my son has since graduated therapy, but I can't seem to get past it.

• 46:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I, um, I think you just need to remove the phrase "get past it" from your, from your psyche.

• 46:22Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  This won't be something you quote unquote "get past." This is something that you'll grow around and grow through.

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  But get past suggests this thing just is in the road and you just go on down the road. And this is a part of you. It's a thing you saw. You saw something that people might see on a TV show or they can imagine. Um, but there is a, there's a visceral reality when you hear it, when you start using your senses, when you see it, and they burn themselves into your mind and body because your body has a protective mechanism. It doesn't want that to ever happen to you. So it puts a GPS pin in that. See? Don't ever let that happen. And for you, that was your home. That was your neighbor.

• 47:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:08Dr. John Delony?

  And so it electrifies the skin you live in. Right? It's not like it happened in an alley and so you don't go to dark alleys anymore. It happened at a, at a relative's house. You don't go to that relative's house. This happened in your yard.

• 47:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:26Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so I think it is, the anxiety's right in that it's just trying to let you know, hey, you're not safe because a crazy thing happened to you. Happened to your neighbor, but you saw a crazy thing. You experienced it. And you want to add another layer of anxiousness onto that? Your kids saw it.

• 47:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:49Dr. John Delony?

  So can I unwind a few things for you?

• 47:52Speaker 05

  Yes, please.

• 47:53Dr. John Delony?

  Your kids seeing that's not your fault.

• 47:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:59Dr. John Delony?

  You for getting the blanket inside and having to go back. It's not your fault. Your kids seeing really scary, scary things is not your fault. Open your hands and let that nonsense go. Okay?

• 48:16Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 48:20Dr. John Delony?

  I want to flip it around and thank God almighty that you have two little kids who have got a mother and is dad in the picture?

• 48:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:28Dr. John Delony?

  Have a mom and a dad that loved them so much that immediately got them out of harms way because you didn't know what was up or what was down. You got them into the correct professional help as soon as possible. And kids are astonishingly resilient, especially when they're anchored into uh, connective caregivers.

• 48:50Dr. John Delony?

  The old saying in counseling is, kids can experience all kinds of trauma. They just can't experience it alone. That's when it becomes traumatic over time. Your kids didn't. They had you, they had husband, they had professionals.

• 49:06Dr. John Delony?

  So amen to you for being a good mom and a good dad throughout this thing. Okay?

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Thank you, thank you.

• 49:14Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to let the fault part go.

• 49:19Dr. John Delony?

  And every time that story enters into your head, I want you to do something that's gonna make you look crazy, okay? I want you to comically abruptly stop that story.

• 49:34Dr. John Delony?

  Nope. When you're in your shower and your mind kicks off to, well, you should have, nope, nope, nope.

• 49:43Dr. John Delony?

  And what, I promise you, what you will do over time is you will begin to shift this thing, you'll shift your default setting to, I should have to, thank God I was able to, fill in the blank.

• 49:56Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 49:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Here's number two. What was the name of that man? Are you allowed to say?

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Um, his name was Jeremy.

• 50:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 50:06Dr. John Delony?

  I want you and your husband to write Jeremy a letter.

• 50:10Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 50:11Dr. John Delony?

  You're never gonna give it to him.

• 50:14Dr. John Delony?

  But this is walking your body through it. It's to help you metabolize what happened.

• 50:21Dr. John Delony?

  And it doesn't have to be a nice letter. Hey, man, you scared our family to death. And I'm sorry that you were struggling so much with whatever was going on.

• 50:31Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to-

• 50:31Speaker 05

  I mean, I haven't fully written him a letter, but I have found forgiveness. He was living with his parents and so we actually have become friends with his parents and like, they're like second grandparents to us, so I've like, kind of gotten over that anger that I felt towards him, but it's just that-

• 50:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but the fear part's still there.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so what you do is you have a lot of imaginary conversations with him or about him.

• 50:57Dr. John Delony?

  And your body doesn't know the difference when it's in your head. So it spins up the fight or flight as though this whole thing's kicking off again. And then it goes right back to the gurgling sounds. It goes right back to the awkward way. Somebody's neck cranks to like a really unnatural angle. Or somebody's ankle rolls over. Like all those little, those little micro nuances are stuck in your soul. And when you start doing that imaginary conversation game, your body goes right back there.

• 51:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so we're gonna metabolize it. We're gonna let him go.

• 51:33Dr. John Delony?

  Jeremy's a sweet kid. He had a lot of demons, man. And for whatever reason that no one will ever know, what happened, happened.

• 51:44Dr. John Delony?

  But he no longer gets to live inside your head and your heart and your mind and your family's home.

• 51:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna write him a letter and you're gonna read yours to your husband. Your husband's gonna read his to you. You're gonna say it out loud. As David Kessler, who was recently on my show, said, grief demands a witness. We're gonna say it out loud to each other.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  And you have to be honest in the letter. Hey, you scared me. I'm scared to come to my own house now. Every loud noise, I jump.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  But I want you to feel comfortable giving Jeremy the responsibility in this particular situation. Write it out, okay? And then we destroy the letters and we move on.

• 52:24Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 52:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Here's another thing I want you to metabolize, okay?

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  That young man is no longer hurting right now.

• 52:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 52:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:40Dr. John Delony?

  He's not in pain.

• 52:44Dr. John Delony?

  It's over.

• 52:48Dr. John Delony?

  And it's easy for us to flinch up like when one of our kids gets a bad cut. One of our kids bangs our head. Our bodies clinch, right? Real tight. And when you think about him, you think about, it's easy to draw a connection to your own kids. It's easy to draw a connection to yourself and how much pain that must have been, how scary that must have been, that all... He's not in pain anymore.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 53:17Dr. John Delony?

  No, don't be sorry.

• 53:22Dr. John Delony?

  Don't be sorry.

• 53:24Dr. John Delony?

  You saw some things you should never have seen. I'm so sorry.

• 53:28Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  I...

• 53:41Dr. John Delony?

  Go ahead.

• 53:42Speaker 05

  I feel like every coping mechanism I've, like, been given is just kind of not getting me far enough.

• 53:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I know.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  And so, it's like, these, like, the five, four, three, two, one stuff is just like...

• 53:56Dr. John Delony?

  Those are Band-Aids.

• 53:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:58Dr. John Delony?

  We're not doing Band-Aids, we're going right through it. We're gonna go talk to Jeremy via letter.

• 54:03Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 54:04Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not avoiding the conversation anymore.

• 54:07Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to abruptly stop my mind when it heads down these tracks and let my mind know I'm driving. I'm okay. You don't have to automate and protect me.

• 54:20Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 54:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 54:24Dr. John Delony?

  As you move a little further down the road, you're gonna quickly be able to scale through... It's an old CBT technique, but it's, like, is that true? Every loud noise, boom, my chest gets real tight. Is that a gunshot? No.

• 54:38Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna consciously exhale.

• 54:41Dr. John Delony?

  You're not there yet, but we're gonna just work through those things. And here's the biggest challenge that most people who've experienced what you've experienced go through is, they go to war with their body. They want their body to stop trying to keep them safe, and that's nuts.

• 54:56Dr. John Delony?

  I want my body to be...

• 54:57Speaker 05

  That's what I've been doing.

• 54:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, your body's working perfectly.

• 55:02Dr. John Delony?

  Given your biology, your genetics, your, this wild situation, your body's cranking along. What we wanna do is teach our body, "I wasn't safe then, I am safe now."

• 55:13Dr. John Delony?

  And most of the time, not always, that's what great physicians are for and great psychiatrists are for. Often, your body goes, "Okay, cool. We're back."

• 55:26Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about your friendship circle there in your home.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  Um.

• 55:31Dr. John Delony?

  Or your hometown. You have friends, you have connection.

• 55:35Dr. John Delony?

  How's your marriage?

• 55:35Speaker 05

  We just, my marriage is great. We just moved. We move a lot. Um. And so, I mean, I have, I have friends all over the country at this point. Um, just not here.

• 55:48Dr. John Delony?

  Do you get to see and touch? Okay.

• 55:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:52Dr. John Delony?

  It's easier said than done, but you've got to find human beings that you can be in proximity to.

• 55:59Dr. John Delony?

  It's one of the great fallacies of digital communication, these long text threads of old friends that are hilarious. They still send funny memes. We still check in with each other, still get happy birthday. All that's great and good, but your body is regulated by real people in time and space.

• 56:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:15Dr. John Delony?

  So you have to have somebody that you sit across the table from.

• 56:19Dr. John Delony?

  You have to have a couple of people you have into your home for coffee. And for you, someone who moves a lot, for whatever reason, that's probably a whole other phone call. That's a nightmare to get up and do it again, and then you make new friends again, and make new friends again. That's, that's your lot in life. I wish there was another way around it, right? It's like telling somebody, like, when you look at their budget, like, hey, you gotta go make more money. Like, I don't, I don't know, you gotta go get a job. Like, I hate to say that, but, so your job right now is you gotta go once again, new town, new home, new community, whatever. Having people back in, having people back in that I can be present with, that I can drop my shoulders with, that I don't have to perform with. And I know for almost everybody listening to this show right now, I read the data on loneliness.

• 57:01Dr. John Delony?

  That sounds like a pipe dream. It sounds like a fantasy. It's like not real. I get that. And it doesn't exclude the fact that we have to have it. So that means we have to fight through the fantasy, put down the video game controllers, put down our lives and, I mean, the distractions in our lives and head into life with other people. That's what we gotta do. There's not, there's not another way around it.

• 57:22Dr. John Delony?

  And McCall, if you write this young man a letter, and here's the goal of the letter, I'm gonna let you go.

• 57:31Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so sorry you were hurting this bad. I'll never know what was going on in your heart and mind. And by all, you scared my family to death.

• 57:39Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna let him go.

• 57:42Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna let him go. I'm gonna let him go with my husband. I'm gonna be open there. He's gonna be open back. I'm gonna have some friends over to the house. I'm gonna check in with my kids. I'm gonna check in with myself. I'm gonna begin to journal, just to keep a gratitude journal. What's three or four things I'm grateful for every morning when I wake up? I'm gonna begin to stop those conversations, those loops in my head.

• 58:08Dr. John Delony?

  When that image of him on the ground pops into my head, I'm gonna immediately, you can't stop that lightning bolt. Those pictures, those images pop in our heads. That happens. You can't immediately replace it with another picture. Nope, I gotta focus on that one. Gotta focus on this one. And over time, your body will go, oh, she's driving. I don't need to keep reminding her of this.

• 58:30Dr. John Delony?

  Most of the time, our bodies are just trying to keep us safe. And they're working as, as our particular bodies and experiences and biology programmed them to. It's all good. But my job is not to avoid, it's to teach. We're safe now. We weren't safe then. We're safe now.

• 58:49Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you so much for the call. A call. Call me back anytime. I can walk alongside you. I want you to grab a book called Finding Meaning by the great David Kessler. It's the best book on grief I've ever read, ever. Check it out and maybe you and your husband can work through that together as well. Thank you for the call. We'll be right back.

• 59:08Dr. John Delony?

  All right, before we get back to the show, let's talk about Organifi. Everybody hear this. Health and wellness is not a destination. It's a journey. It's an adventure. And it's a journey that is never a straight line. It's got starts and stops and ups and downs and victories and setbacks. This is something that I've personally struggled with for years. And I recently made some significant commitments to myself and my family to get back on the path yet again. And one way I've learned to make the health and wellness journey easier is making consistently healthy choices about what I eat and what I drink. And this is why I love Organifi. Their whole food blends contain only the highest quality ingredients. And they make it super easy to get the benefits.

• 59:51Dr. John Delony?

  Just mix Organifi with water or your favorite healthy beverage. The green juice is great in the morning and it's packed with superfoods that help boost your energy, calm your mind, and support you throughout the entire day. And their red juice is loaded with antioxidants to help with focus, stamina, and recovery. And right now, Organifi is offering the Organifi Starter Kit with seven days of green juice travel packs, seven days of red juice travel packs, and magnesium capsules for strong bones and healthy muscles. And why not? You also get a branded Organifi shaker bottle. So make Organifi part of your health and wellness journey. Go to Organifi.com/Daloni right now to save 20% off with code DALONI.

• 1:00:33Dr. John Delony?

  That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash Daloni and use code DALONI for 20% off.

• 1:00:43Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Kelly, am I the problem? Go for it.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  All right, this is from Jennifer. She says, "For Thanksgiving, we had plans with my daughter, her fiance, and their new baby to go see my parents in California. We had everything planned to help her feel less anxious with the drive with the new baby. She's a very anxious first time mom. She texts, doesn't call, but texts me three days before we are to leave to tell me they can't go to a big project that he has due after the holiday, and if he fails it, he probably won't graduate. By the way, she just dropped out in her senior year to have the baby. I'm so upset because her parents are getting older and both have dementia. They've never met the new baby or her fiance. I feel like they should have planned better when he knew this project was due from the beginning of the semester.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  She doesn't really seem to care how anyone else feels about this. Yet, she is upset with me for going to Texas for Christmas for two weeks to see my son's family and my other daughter. She said that I ruined her baby's first Christmas. Who's right here? I'm sick of fighting about this. She's 22 and knows everything."

• 1:01:51Dr. John Delony?

  So great. Um, here's the thing. She's 22 and she knows everything. So if there's somebody, I'm just gonna stay away from fault language here, but you're the one that, they made their decision. I mean, not to be rude, but you don't get a vote. They don't really care what you have to say. They didn't call and ask and say, is this okay? They just did what they were gonna do. And so what you've chosen since Thanksgiving is just to wake up and be angry and miserable every day. They made a choice. They made a call. They're gonna live with those consequences. Does it stink that, that the parents aren't gonna get, is this her sister? Is that who that is? Is it her daughter? Okay, her daughter, yeah. Yeah, your daughter made a selfish call.

• 1:02:35Dr. John Delony?

  Is what it is, right? And 22-year-olds in college didn't plan well for finals. Ta-da. That's not a big shocker, right? That just is. And so would it have been awesome? Yep. I get a hint of she doesn't like this whole thing. She doesn't like that, oh, my 22-year-old daughter just dropped out of college. She had this baby, like, there's, there seems to be a lot more layers here. And so what mom wants is, oh, she had a baby with fiance. She dropped out of college. She's doing these things that I don't like. That's not the way I would have drawn it up. But you're gonna do these things. And 22-year-old's like, no, I'm not gonna do those either. So it sounds like a mother losing control of all of it.

• 1:03:18Dr. John Delony?

  And so what I would say is, let go. 22 years old. What you don't want to do is cash in and this 22-year-old daughter of yours doesn't want you as a grandparent. I don't want to lose that, right? So I can be disappointed and then I'm gonna go on about my day. I don't know. What do you think?

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  I agree. I think that the 22-year-old is, is selfish. But they're 22. And, um, again, you have no control over that decision. Um, you can be disappointed about it. And I understand her disappointment because she wants her parents to meet the grandbaby. Of course she does. I totally understand that, but...

• 1:03:52Dr. John Delony?

  Going to war with a 22-year-old, first-time mom who just dropped out of college?

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  Is ridiculous. Yeah, you're not gonna win.

• 1:03:57Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna lose that every time.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  And, but also, you know, with the 22-year-old being mad now because you went to see them over Christmas, tough crap.

• 1:04:05Dr. John Delony?

  She didn't get a vote either. She's 22.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. I'm not gonna let you.

• 1:04:09Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Sorry you feel that way.

• 1:04:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Move along.

• 1:04:12Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and this is one of those, like...

• 1:04:16Dr. John Delony?

  I'll implore all parents and adult kids. If somebody texts you something big like that, call them. Pick up the phone and call. Pick up the phone and call. If there's a text message, you're like, "Man, that sounds hard." Pick up the phone and call. It's astonishing to me, over my holiday break, the conversations I had with several people. They were like, "Oh, we got the text and we understood." I'm like, "What? What did you understand? Why didn't you call me?" Like, "Well, you know..." "No, no, no. What did you..." You know what I mean? Like, "Just make that extra phone call." My god, right? If something comes across weird, especially with your kids, especially when it's with adult relationships, man. Be adults, right?

• 1:04:58Dr. John Delony?

  And, yes, 22-year-olds are gonna be 22. I'm personally not gonna cash in that relationship over time, over... "You ruined my baby's first Christmas." I didn't. I'm gonna move on in my life. I don't know. Ben, did you ruin somebody's first Christmas this year?

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  I don't think so. I mean, actually, the opposite, because my one-year-old nephew gave us all stomach flu.

• 1:05:21Dr. John Delony?

  Oh.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  So he wrecked my Christmas.

• 1:05:24Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, let's put him on blast. Nobody listens to this show, anyway. What's his name? Where does he live? I'm just kidding, don't say that. All right, thank you guys so much for checking us out, and we will see you soon, right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Love you, guys. Stay in school, no new drugs. Bye.