Ep. 828: Nonresidents, Wildlife Commissions, and the Boundary Waters | MeatEater Radio Live!

Hosts Brody Henderson, Seth Morris, and Cory Calkins chat with Chef Lukas Leaf of Modern Carnivore and Sportsmen for the Boundary Waters about the recent threats to one of our county's most cherished wild places, stage a crew Hot Tip Off, talk with NWF's Jeremy Romero, and read some listener emails. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:14Steven Rinella?

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• 2:08Speaker 04

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to MeatEater Trivia. MeatEater Podcast.

• 2:31Speaker 05

  Oh, there you are. Uh, welcome to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. on Thursday, which means, uh, we're here at HQ in Bozeman to, uh, chit chat with you guys. I'm your host, Brody. I'm joined today by Seth and Corey and, uh, Steve, Steve ditched Randall. So Randall's here too. You can't see him though. Um, he's sitting.

• 2:52Speaker 06

  Hey, everybody. Hey, Mogor.

• 2:56Speaker 05

  We got a couple of great guests joining us today. Uh, we're, who are going to be talking to us about the Boundary Waters and then we're going to talk about, uh, state wildlife commissions. There's some interesting stuff going on in New Mexico regarding state wildlife commissions. And we're also going to be addressing Randall's loud bag of, uh, sun chips and some interesting email correspondence from the Meat Eater inbox. And we'll also do a crew hot tip off. And the live, you guys, the live audience, you're going to decide the winner and we'll announce that at the end of the show. Um, what flavor do you got there, Randall?

• 3:34Speaker 06

  Garden salsa, my favorite.

• 3:36Speaker 05

  Nice.

• 3:37Speaker 07

  That is a good chip. Do you have enough for the rest of the class?

• 3:40Speaker 06

  Nope.

• 3:41Speaker 05

  Okay, moving on.

• 3:42Speaker 06

  I'm not even supposed to be here.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  Moving on. Uh, before we dive into the show, um, I want to make an announcement. And, uh, in case you guys haven't heard, some of you have, probably have, some of you probably haven't. Might be a little painful for, for our most diehard listeners like Mogor, Mogor. So, uh, hold on your britches. In case you haven't heard, uh, we're going to be saying goodbye to Meat Eater Radio Live in early March. Um, it's been a great run. Um, and we've had so much fun, uh, doing the live show for you guys. So we're, we're sad to see it go. Randall, in particular, has been in a dark, deep depression the last couple of weeks. Uh, is it, is that, you got anything to add there?

• 4:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, but we've learned so much along the way and really made all kinds of new friends, including we've learned things about one another that I don't think would have come to light.

• 4:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 06

  It's not been for this vehicle.

• 4:36Speaker 07

  That's true.

• 4:38Speaker 05

  Um, anyway, there's, there's some good news here too. Uh, Radio Live is going to be replaced by a second weekly episode of Meat Eater, the Meat Eater Podcast. Um, and you're still going to be seeing the crew from Radio, Meat Eater Radio Live, along with Steve. Um, and the additional drop of the Meat Eater Podcast is going to focus on news and current events. But we're going to bring some of the fun and energy from Radio Live along with us. Um, but for now, we've got another month's or so, five weeks, maybe of Radio Live left before we sign off. And we're definitely going to be do, doing something very special for, for our last episode of Radio Live. Phil, Phil

• 5:22Speaker 05

  and Randall are already plotting. So if you have, if you have any like suggestions or like wants that you would see in, in our last show, send them in to us. We'll see if we can do anything.

• 5:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, Phil, do we have a, is it radio at the meat eater.com? I believe it is.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  If you have any ideas for the Meat Eater Radio Live Grand Finale Spectacular Live.

• 5:48Speaker 06

  On March 5th, 2026, March 5th will be our last show. Uh, and we're playing, it's, it's going to be a blast. So please.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  It's gonna be wild.

• 5:56Speaker 06

  Please tune in. And I, I think really, really quick too, just to add to some of the messaging around here about like why specifically we're doing this. I mean, the main reason is that Steve wants to do stuff like this more. Uh, he wants to be on, on like, he loves Radio Live. He loves coming on and it's just, he, he can't do it very often because it's, it's tied to a specific time. But, um, so now it's just being replaced. The, the, the new show is going to have a lot of the same energy, sort of like the old crew shows from, from back in the old days. So I think you're going to still enjoy it. But now if we're just more flexible, we can talk about topical stuff more quickly, which is what Steve wants.

• 6:28Speaker 05

  Phil can go on vacations that include Thursdays. Man, I'm getting hijacked here. Little bit. Sorry, I'm gonna have to leave soon.

• 6:35Speaker 06

  I just think some of the messaging hasn't been super clear. So I just thought we'd get, you know, get in front of it.

• 6:40Speaker 05

  Pipe down, boys.

• 6:40Speaker 06

  That's not on you, Brody.

• 6:42Speaker 05

  I know, I know.

• 6:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, not, not from you. I mean, the messaging that has been, uh, communicated so far.

• 6:47Speaker 05

  Before today. Um, and I will add that there is a chance, I think if we get, get our way, it'll happen. There's a chance that every now and then we'll do like a pop up version of radio. Yes. Oh, so it may not be completely going away. We'll see. Yeah, we were even thinking about some, some like prime time shows like, you know, seven o'clock on a Friday or Saturday night where, you know, we can kind of eventize it a little bit. Or if we're at like some kind of event or something, we might try and do it, do it.

• 7:18Speaker 07

  And we'd rent tuxedos for those.

• 7:20Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, all right. So, uh, you, you guys got anything? You want to chit chat about before we start talking?

• 7:29Speaker 06

  Well, I'd like to tell you a bunch of ice fishing stories, but.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  I saw you were on the ice the other day. Did you get any of those five inch bluegills?

• 7:35Speaker 06

  No. Well, yeah, I got some bluegills on the three forks ponds, but I was up at Canyon Ferry and.

• 7:41Speaker 05

  Dismal.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  Just caught the.

• 7:43Speaker 05

  Dismal as usual up there.

• 7:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was not good. Four inches of ice, couldn't get out to the good stuff.

• 7:49Speaker 07

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 06

  A little sketchy. Ice was.

• 7:51Speaker 07

  Bare minimum.

• 7:52Speaker 06

  Ice was chit chatty up there.

• 7:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 06

  Making all kinds of noises.

• 7:55Speaker 07

  Yelling at you.

• 7:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 07

  Threatening.

• 7:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, a little scary.

• 7:57Speaker 07

  It's been so unseasonably warm. I went fly fishing the other day.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 8:02Speaker 07

  Yeah, never done it in January before. No, typical January trout fishing. They're pretty, uh, in the rivers at least. Not a lot of food, not a lot of activity, but if you put it in their face, they'll eat it.

• 8:13Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 8:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, we caught a few.

• 8:15Speaker 06

  One time I went ice fishing while fly fishing. I was up in Alaska, went out to the lodge on a snow machine. Busted the ice open next to the bank and drifted a fly through there. Caught a nice trout. I'll show you a picture sometime. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's cool.

• 8:33Speaker 05

  Excellent job, Ryan.

• 8:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't, I don't got, got a whole lot going on right now. Um, my, my life's kind of in turmoil, really.

• 8:46Speaker 06

  We're kind of just stuck in a weird. Time right now like.

• 8:49Speaker 07

  It's vortex.

• 8:49Speaker 05

  I know. Well, the one good thing.

• 8:50Speaker 06

  The weather's not great for anything.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  I know. It's like between seasons. It's like turkey season's way off, but the one good thing about this weather is uh this super nice weather is I was forced by my family to uh I I was gonna do a marathon, my first marathon in September.

• 9:08Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 05

  And I was informed that that training program would be way too disruptive to our summer activities.

• 9:17Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 9:17Speaker 05

  It's like every weekend I gotta do some long ass run, you know?

• 9:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  Can't go anywhere, can't go fishing, camping, all that stuff. So I bumped it up to to June, to the Missoula Marathon, late June. So it's like thrown my whole life off.

• 9:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, you're able to train at the moment, at least down low, huh?

• 9:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. That's that's a good thing.

• 9:37Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 9:37Speaker 06

  How are you feeling about it?

• 9:39Speaker 05

  Good, little nervous, but good, but a little nervous.

• 9:42Speaker 06

  You're feeling like you're getting prepared?

• 9:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I got five months, so it's a lot. Most marathon plans are either sixteen or twenty weeks, so I've got over twenty. I'm good. It'll be good. But now it's real, like September seems so far off and June's like right there. Anyway, um, we got more important stuff to talk about, uh, namely the Boundary Waters. Um, our first guest today is Lukas Leaf. And uh, Lucas is the the lead chef for Modern Carnivore. And he's also contributed a bunch of his uh best wild game recipes to the Meat Eater website. In addition to that, Lucas is also the executive director of the conservation group Sportsman for the Boundary Waters.

• 10:30Speaker 05

  And he's gonna, he's here to talk to us today about the most recent congressional assault on one of America's most cherished wild places. Um, which is Minnesota's Boundary Waters canoe area that like the Boundary Waters have been threatened before. Um, managed to fight those threats off, but this one, this time it's like serious. Um.

• 10:55Speaker 05

  And before we get to the interview with Lucas, like for anyone who's not familiar, I want to give you guys a quick background on the on the Boundary Waters. That's going to help you understand what the stakes are here. Um, the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is a 1.1 million acre federally protected wilderness area in northeastern Minnesota's Superior National Forest. It's big. I think Yellowstone is 2 million, so it, you know, a million acres, a big chunk of land. Um, it's the most visited wilderness area in

• 11:32Speaker 05

  the United States. It has, uh, 1,175 lakes, 1,200 plus miles of canoe routes, and it offers backcountry canoeing, hunting, fishing, hiking, and, and winter activities. Um, it's like this vast, very pristine network of interconnected waterways that provide really good fishing for walleye, pike, small mouth bass, lake trout. Um, and, and the area also encompasses our southernmost boreal forest, um, that harbors, you, you know, you can hunt waterfowl, black bears, spruce and rough grouse, snowshoe hares, and whitetail deer.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  And they're whitetail deer that have never seen a corn pile. So they're pretty cool. Um, and the reason we're talking about all this is because the Boundary Waters is threatened by this massive sulfide ore copper mine. Um, that's proposed on the banks of, of the South Kawishy, Kawishewee River and Birch Lake. And, and sulfide ore mining in the United States has a lo, like a long, dark history of causing significant environmental damage. There's like, something seems to always go wrong with these mines. They're like, you can look it up. There's plenty of examples. You Google it and you'll see

• 12:58Speaker 05

  all these examples across the United States where these mines have just caused irreversible damage to habitat, polluting streams, lakes, drinking water supplies with heavy metals and, and other toxins. Hard rock mining is the most, generally regarded as the most toxic industry in America. And hydrologists say,

• 13:21Speaker 05

  That pollution from mining in this area is like it's inevitable. It's gonna happen. So, we're gonna talk to Lucas. Lucas, you on the line?

• 13:32Speaker 05

  I sure am. Thanks guys for having me. And Brody, you nailed that intro, man. Thanks, thanks. Before we get into the Boundary Waters, let's first talk about who Sportsman for the Boundary Waters is and what you guys do.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I mean, you know, Sportsman for the Boundary Waters was founded, you know, roughly a decade ago, mainly as the hunting and angling voice for the area, for protections of the area, for for the world-class hunting and fishing opportunities that that it holds, like you talked about. But also, you know, to, you know, to work and prevent this proposed copper nickel mine that you were talking about by Twin Metals, which is a subsidiary of Anafagasta, which is a Chilean mining conglomerate. So that's one of our, you know, kind of key issues that we work on. And we also have a pretty robust stewardship and habitat program. So on the ground projects, working with, you know, state and and national, you know, partners and coalitions as well.

• 14:32Speaker 05

  Great. So obviously, this seems, Randall.

• 14:40Speaker 05

  Randall's trying to play music over here. Sorry.

• 14:42Speaker 06

  No, I apologize. I was trying to hop into the chat. I really, I should leave.

• 14:47Speaker 05

  I like those sunships too. It's all good.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Okay. Lucas, so like, obviously to like, most people, I would say, this seems like a real shitty place to put a sulfide or mining operation. So can you lay out why Congress approved stripping protections from the Boundary Waters?

• 15:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, it's been a very partisan issue for a long time, right? You know, supporters of the Martin are hoping for, you know, protect projected jobs and, and, you know, royalties to the states, um, you know, touting the idea for, for, um, shoring up, you know, domestic critical minerals dominance, um, but, but it really is like a terrible place for this, as you alluded to, right? It's extremely water-rich environment. You said it's Piranha National Forest. Spirit National Forest holds 20% of the fresh water in the entire national forest system. Um, huge interconnected, water-rich area. It is just a terrible spot for it, right on the, the shores of Birch Lake, you know, miles away from the Boundary Waters, the headwaters of the area.

• 16:00Speaker 07

  And it's located, you know, north of the Laurentian Divide, so all the water flows north. That'd be through the Boundary Waters, in and out of it, up through Rainy Lake, you know, Great Walleye Fishery and, and, and others, all the way up to Hudson Bay, also affecting parts of, you know, the Canadian Border Waters. You know, you mentioned, you know, the Boundary Waters, 1.1 million acres, well, uh, it's, it's Sister Park, uh, in Canada, the Quetico, is nearly the same size, and they border each other as well.

• 16:30Speaker 05

  So it would end up flowing downstream to that as well?

• 16:34Speaker 07

  Yep, exactly.

• 16:35Speaker 05

  Um, you said it's a partisan issue, which is unfortunate, but,

• 16:43Speaker 07

  Really is.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  You know, the, the reality is, is that the Republicans in Congress are the ones that push this thing through.

• 16:52Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 16:54Speaker 05

  And, again, like, i- i- is this like,

• 17:01Speaker 05

  unfortunately, like, is this come down to money?

• 17:06Speaker 07

  I mean, for, it's hard to say, right? Like, you know, quick background. You know, what, what this, and we can get into the, the House resolution that was introduced by Representative Staub and passed the House last week, but you know, it's, it's, this resolution is meant to overturn a 20 year mine, mining moratorium in nearly 225,000 acres in that Rainy River watershed, the watershed that houses the Boundary Water, State National Forest. And that happened in January of 2023. So we're, we're just right at about the three year anniversary of, of those protections being put in place. And coincidentally, Anafagasta just got fined for not meeting

• 17:48Speaker 07

  uh, regulations in one of its Chilean mines for, to the tune of nearly $800,000 this week too. So, um.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's crazy. Like whenever one of these, these huge mining operations pops up, that, that's like environmentally questionable. It's like always a foreign mining company.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  That's right. That's right. And, and a, a key point to put, to point out here is, is like, Anafagasta, yes. Chilean mining conglomerate, um, definitely has, you know, certain ties to the current administration. Um, it, it, it obviously, you know, is about money, but, but it's also about tying into that, you know, need for domestic critical minerals.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Right.

• 18:33Speaker 07

  The whole issue with that is, is that those minerals, once extracted, are going to be shipped overseas. There are no, there are no smelting operations on US soil that are capable of taking care of that.

• 18:45Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 18:45Speaker 07

  And once those minerals end up, you know, on foreign soil for processing, they just flood the global market with, with no guarantee that they're coming back.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 07

  To us.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  That's the real kick in the nuts.

• 18:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 07

  America.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  No, no, we don't get anything.

• 18:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 05

  I mean, someone's getting something out of it, but.

• 19:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:03Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 19:04Speaker 07

  And you know, no one's saying that, you know, it's a 20 year withdrawal, right? The whole, the whole reason for that is to give it time to find out whether or not it's viable.

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 07

  Potentially, if technology catches up, who knows? But at the moment, as you said, there is no type, there is no project similar to this that has been done without polluting in some form.

• 19:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 07

  And that's mostly arid environments, too.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  Exactly. So, like, obviously, this goes like way beyond a handful of hunters and anglers that are worried about like their spot, right? Um, so besides like the clearly dangerous environmental risks, there's also could be a huge like a local and regional economic, you know, component to what's at stake here. Cause the Boundary Water supports like 17,000 jobs and generates a billion dollars in, in sales and income annually. So I, I just wondered if you can hit on, on that aspect of this at all, like what, what, like,

• 20:10Speaker 05

  who would be the people that would be losing jobs, losing money if this thing goes forward?

• 20:17Speaker 07

  Well, certainly, certainly all of the local businesses, you know, this, the Boundary Waters and the surrounding areas are a huge economic driver for, for all of those, you know, local towns and cities. And, you know, it's, it's not just those local businesses. I mean, this trickles out everywhere to, to the folks that are excited and buying gear to, you know, to go up and, and take the trips to, you know, to, to everything that's needed for, for a place like this.

• 20:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 07

  And for a trip to that, you know, a true backcountry wilderness experience that anybody can, you know, from a, you know, an infant, I just took, you know, the first time I took my kids, they were two, you know, all the way up to somebody on their 50th anniversary. That's, you know, 85, right? It is, it's truly accessible to everyone.

• 21:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 07

  Uh, so, yeah, and then, you know, with, with the resolution, the unfortunate piece for that is yes, it did pass the house. And now it does, you know, move on to this. And real, the real battle is, is hoping that we can turn this into a bipartisan issue and that, you know, um, this crosses the aisle and, and, and we can have some Republican folks, you know, understand the implications of, of what using the Congressional Review Act for overturning a mineral draw really means not only for the boundary waters, but for similar protections across the country, too.

• 21:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, that's, I mean, that's the worrying aspect of it is like if the dominoes start falling after this, you know?

• 21:48Speaker 01

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• 23:39Speaker 05

  So it's going to the Senate. Do you got a feel for what things are looking like there? Like which direction it's leaning or is it completely up in the air?

• 23:50Speaker 07

  You know, it's, it's pretty up in the air. The, uh, so the Senate parliamentarian still has to rule on whether or not the usage of the CRA, the Congressional Review Act, is lawful in this manner because traditionally it's only been used for, uh, land management plans. This is a federal action, so kind of an unprecedented, uh, usage of the CRA. So we're hoping to, to hear what that ruling may be and if it'll sway the movement in, in the Senate as well. Um, but at this moment, it has not been, been taken up in the Senate. You know, I think as everybody knows, there's a lot, lot else going on right now in Congress.

• 24:28Speaker 05

  What's the, what's the timing on it? Do you know when they're going to get to it?

• 24:35Speaker 07

  We certainly expect sooner than later. It moves so fast through the House. I mean, we're talking an introduction, you know, less than two weeks ago to, to passage last week. Right? Like, so it, it really slammed through and it had, it certainly had some help too. So, um, we know that when it does hit the Senate, they know they have the backing to get it to move forward. So, uh, best case scenario is, is that doesn't get the light of day. And our states do some work to ensure that, that, uh, it scares off the folks trying to get this to move even, move forward in the Senate as well.

• 25:10Speaker 05

  I, I know this is kind of like beating a dead horse with, with all these kinds of issues that come up. But what, what can people do to, to help stop it from happening?

• 25:22Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, this isn't a, a blue or red issue, man. This is, this is everybody. You know, this is the time for us all to come together, you know, for the places that we cherish and understand that it has those broader implications for others. So it's not just a Minnesota issue. It's a national issue. There are tons of great organizations working on this. The best thing you can do is call your senators. It doesn't matter if they're Republican or Democrat. They need to hear from their constituents that this is not the right place for this mine and that this resolution should not move forward in the Senate. So making those phone calls, getting a meeting with your with your senators if you can.

• 26:01Speaker 07

  And and hooking up and joining conservation organizations that are working on this, signing action alerts that that a number have out right now. Almost anything you can do is is most important right now. It's all hands on deck.

• 26:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, and and for people who are wondering, like, it's actually very easy to to call your senator. It's it's not like a painful, long process. I wish we had the number. But you can look it up.

• 26:30Speaker 07

  I I know it by heart.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  There you go. Lay it on us.

• 26:34Speaker 07

  Two zero two two four four. I think it's three one two one.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Well, well, if it if it's wrong, we'll we'll figure it out. But I think.

• 26:45Speaker 07

  Double check it, but it it connects you directly with the Capitol switchboard. And the operator can put you directly in touch with your your senator's office.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's actually a pretty quick process. All right. Before before we let you go, Lucas, you you are a chef, so we got to talk about food a little bit.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  Yanis has given us the bird out there. This place is falling apart, man. Like, we announced that Radio Live is going away and the whole place is falling apart.

• 27:23Speaker 05

  Domino's. Sorry about this, Lucas. It's embarrassing. Give us like two or three of your favorite recipes or preparations from fishing game that that you typically would harvest in in the Boundary Waters.

• 27:39Speaker 07

  If I'm in the Boundary Waters?

• 27:41Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 27:41Speaker 07

  Should we do it?

• 27:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Or if you brought something home from the Boundary Waters, whatever.

• 27:47Speaker 07

  Well, I'll say, all right, in camp, in camp, there is nothing better than shore lunch, lake trout, cooked in bacon grease on a cold day.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  Ooh, are you breading that? Are you just putting it in the?

• 28:01Speaker 07

  Yeah, just really lightly breaded with with the actual shore lunch. Otherwise, like one that I that I'll use is just like pulverized Cheez-Its.

• 28:11Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 28:12Speaker 07

  And use yellow mustard as a binder. Trust me, both are great. But, um, yeah, that that's one that's one of my favorites, honestly. Uh, let me think. Gosh.

• 28:24Speaker 04

  What about walleye? Same thing?

• 28:26Speaker 07

  Walleye?

• 28:28Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, um, I think, you know, walleye is a pretty, pretty lean fish. It cooks up really well in a ton of different preparations. It's really good in like curries and, uh, a pasta I've done before. It's called putanesca. It's, uh, pretty rich, like olives, capers, anchovy, tomato based. Um, you know, but again, I mean, nothing better than a fried walleye sandwich too, right? It was homemade tartars.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  Let's say you were up there, uh, and you shot yourself a rough grouse, uh, and you're like camping up there. What would you do with it?

• 29:01Speaker 07

  First, I'd let it sit for a little bit. Um,

• 29:04Speaker 05

  Are you, you mean like let it hang for a while?

• 29:08Speaker 07

  If if you have time, I mean, yeah, you know, going going straight from shot to the pan can can make things a little bit difficult, but

• 29:15Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 29:15Speaker 07

  Once that done, I honestly, I'd pound out the breasts and serum in a cast iron with a little sauce over the fire and take the legs and probably braise them in something, you know, which is just a really slow cook. If you have time, you can take the carcass and make a stock, you know, to make a sauce. Just kind of use the whole thing, right?

• 29:34Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 29:35Speaker 07

  Take, take maybe, you know, the livers and hearts and grill them real quick, you know, just use everything you have.

• 29:40Speaker 05

  God, it makes me want to go to the Boundary Waters.

• 29:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, you guys were talking about ice fishing earlier. It is prime time right now.

• 29:48Speaker 05

  Hmm. Yeah, you guys got cold. We didn't, you got all the cold we missed, man.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 07

  You can say, you can take some. It's been too cold.

• 29:58Speaker 05

  Well, listen, Lucas, uh, thanks. Thanks for chatting with us today and, uh, keep us posted on what's going on with Boundary Waters. If there's anything we can do to help get the message out, let us know.

• 30:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, I really appreciate it. Spreading the word and, and just getting folks to take action is super important. So, thank you so much for having me on today.

• 30:18Speaker 05

  Yep. Thanks again. We'll talk soon.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Alright, moving on. Um, hopefully, hopefully we get some good news here soon, but we're, we're gonna move on, uh, to our crew hot tip-off. Uh, normally we like to feature hot tip-offs from our audience, but you guys have been kinda lame on submitting stuff, you know, I'm sorry to say it.

• 30:42Speaker 06

  That's Brody speaking. I think every tip we've gotten has been, it's not.

• 30:45Speaker 05

  No, I'm saying like, we're just not like, we're not getting many sent in right now. The folder's pretty empty.

• 30:51Speaker 06

  Certainly not a lot of show-worthy.

• 30:52Speaker 05

  Truth hurts. I mean, come on, Phil.

• 30:55Speaker 06

  Step it up.

• 30:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, step it up.

• 30:57Speaker 06

  You don't have a lot of time. Maybe the folks just don't wanna invest their time in a show that's going away.

• 31:01Speaker 05

  Don't make light of this. It's their last chance, like, get their, get their, uh, big prize for having it.

• 31:08Speaker 06

  If you've been holding in those hot tips for the last year and a half, it would have been now.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  So anyway, you're stuck with our hot, hot tips, which we'll see. They might only be lukewarm tips.

• 31:17Speaker 07

  Way to sell, way to sell the segment, Brody.

• 31:19Speaker 05

  I know. Look, I'm, I'm trying to get, get through this, Randall. I'm sad. Okay?

• 31:24Speaker 06

  Oh, now I feel bad.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. Um, the way we're gonna do this is we're not, like, the, the, you guys are gonna vote on the, the, uh, winner.

• 31:35Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 31:36Speaker 05

  But it's like, kinda hard for Phil to do as we're, we're doing the hot, hot tips and compile kinda who, who got the most votes. So we'll, the, the second time we talk to you guys, that's, that's what, at the end of the show, that's when we'll announce the winner. So there'll be all this tension through the rest of the show.

• 31:52Speaker 06

  Oh, okay. Well, that's not what I thought the plan was, but I, I like it.

• 31:56Speaker 05

  I like to keep you on your toes, Phil.

• 31:58Speaker 06

  Brody's calling the shots today.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. It's my show, Phil. It's my show. Um, so,

• 32:06Speaker 05

  Seth, Cory, which one of you guys wants to go first?

• 32:09Speaker 06

  Oh, Seth, why don't you do the honors? Sure, I'll go. I'm very curious. Um, alright, so when you're, when you're out fishing, um, and it's like, Like early spring, maybe later in the fall, water's cold. Um, your hands are getting cold because you're touching fish and whatnot. A thing you can do to help take the edge off is wear a pair of nitro gloves. I prefer black, but um, I ran out of my black ones. So this is the only thing I had laying around.

• 32:42Speaker 06

  I often wear those underneath a pair of fingerless gloves and it's just enough to take the edge off. If it's a little windy outside or whatnot, it's just enough to take the edge off and keep your, your fingers warm.

• 32:55Speaker 05

  I'll vouch that it works. I've done that running. And you, you peel those things off and they're full of sweat, water, like but warm.

• 33:05Speaker 06

  Boy, I haven't tried that yet and good for the fish too. If you're handling, right? Those are good gloves to handle fish. It's just that little, that little, you know.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Barrier.

• 33:15Speaker 06

  Barrier there keeps your fingers warmer. How about tying knots?

• 33:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a good thing. Another plus is that you like have the dexterity. That you would lose with like a fingered glove, a heavy fingered glove. You got my vote.

• 33:34Speaker 06

  It's hot in here all of a sudden.

• 33:37Speaker 05

  All right, try and beat that one, Corey.

• 33:38Speaker 06

  All right, my hot tip. Uh, I actually had a fun time a couple of months ago making a video. Was hoping there was going to be other crew submissions, but there haven't been any. So, uh, Phil, do you have my video up there?

• 33:50Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, let's, let's bring it up. I didn't make a little, uh, title card for you, but I can just do it live here. Cory Calkins.

• 33:58Speaker 06

  Thank you for pronouncing it correctly. Hi, I'm Cory Calkins and I got a hot tip for you. Anybody out there have one of these cheap foldable lifetime tables? Well, anybody ever tried to cut meat on these and notice that it's just a little short and you find yourself hunched over all the time? Trying to cut up on these short tables. So I'm going to teach you, if you have one of these, how to raise it up. So first I need to figure out. It's pretty long. How much higher that I'd like it. So for me it'd be nice, maybe if it was. About belly button height or higher. Then you're gonna measure the distance from the ground up to that little crossbar right there, which looks like it's, I'm gonna say 10 inches.

• 34:38Speaker 06

  So I need four 22-inch sections of this pipe. You get you a stick of one of these one and a half inch PVC pipes.

• 34:56Speaker 06

  You should've just done the whole video that way.

• 35:02Speaker 06

  We lost the camera. Power tools. I like this editing, Corey. Thank you. Yeah, what a, what a great film. Then, two at a time, you're gonna lift the table and stick one on each corner. One, two.

• 35:19Speaker 06

  Three. Three. Guess what? Four. Just like that, I've got a table. It's belly button height, so I can start cutting some meat, not hurting my back. Give it a try. Man. That's good. I don't know. Look at all that dead stuff in there. So, I know, my garage is a mess right now. Everything's in my drift boat.

• 35:39Speaker 05

  I only got one suggestion for you, Corey, you put some non-slip feet down there on the bottom.

• 35:44Speaker 06

  Well, you know, I thought about that, I was concerned, but the angle of the feet that comes with the table is so wide that it's like,

• 35:51Speaker 05

  Doesn't move around.

• 35:51Speaker 06

  It's pretty grippy, yeah, so I don't know, it's just if you aren't able to watch, uh, get to your computer phone fast and go watch that, but, uh, It's pretty self-explanatory. Just trying to raise the table up. Pretty easily. Those little tables are cheap and they're great, like, you know, at Costco or Walmart, but they're always just a hair short and I'm a short fella, so.

• 36:11Speaker 05

  And it's a cheap fix.

• 36:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  It's like a cheapskate tip.

• 36:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:16Speaker 06

  Shout out to my buddy Phil who actually came up with that hot tip.

• 36:19Speaker 05

  This Phil?

• 36:20Speaker 06

  No. Other Phil. Oh, that's funny, Brody.

• 36:24Speaker 05

  Come on, don't get mad.

• 36:26Speaker 06

  Broadwater Street, Phil.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  I'm not mad, I just think I can know how to work a power tool in my garage.

• 36:31Speaker 06

  This guy says you could just find a chair and sit at your table.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  Oh, that's uncomfortable. Oh, yeah, you can't do that. Cutting up an elk for six, seven hours. You'll get blood clots doing that. Pass out from being dizzy. Alright, I'm a little scared now. Mine's pretty simple, man. Simple's good. When you, like, when you're braising meat, cooking it in a liquid, shank, roast, whatever,

• 37:00Speaker 05

  save the braising liquid to reuse it. Once you're done cooking it, whatever you're doing, doesn't matter like what kind of meal you're cooking,

• 37:12Speaker 05

  strain that, all that braising liquid after you cook it. So it's, you know, you get all the kind of scum and debris and stuff like that out of it. You'll get a pretty clear, you know, liquid. And put it in a Tupperware, a mason jar, whatever, freeze it. The next time you're gonna braise stuff, you get that stuff out, thaw it out, dump it in there. And you can do this over and over and over again, and it just gets better every time. I got this jar of what I called taco juice. That's like, it's like, I've had it for like three years, man. I use it for making like turkey leg carnita, like when I'm braising turkey legs or whatever, like Mexican style.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  And I just keep reusing that stuff and it gets better and better. Like you could eat it like soup, it's so good. So that's, that's my. I like that. We, we actually do that all the time. Yeah. Anytime we braise something, we, we run it through a screen at the end and then freeze it. And then a lot of times we'll just pull it out, thaw it out and just drink it. Yeah, exactly. It's good, man. Make a gravy with it? Yep, anything, anything, man. Great, great. That's a great tip. Four-year-old taco juice. That's my hot tip. I bet that's got some flavor. Yep. Randall, you wanna jump in? Yeah, you got a hot tip or what? Winner gets a bag of. Chips here, so.

• 38:32Speaker 06

  Hot tip, uh, oh gosh, I don't know, I shouldn't have come in here.

• 38:38Speaker 05

  Hairstyle tips, maybe? We put you on the spot, it's okay.

• 38:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'll come up with something, something good, just give me. So here's, here's where the problem lies in your strategy, Brody. I, uh, I think the, the live chat can see poll results. Before I announce them, I think it, it updates them live. So if I start the poll now, the, the audience will already know what the results are. So we might as well just announce them.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  Damn it, Phil. A landslide or what? I wanted to build up some tension here.

• 39:06Speaker 06

  Can we just edit this part out, Phil?

• 39:08Speaker 05

  Where you don't come up with a.

• 39:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, radio lives, it doesn't exist anymore, so this is pre-taped, you're right.

• 39:13Speaker 05

  All right, whatever, Phil. I thought you were like.

• 39:17Speaker 06

  All right, starting the poll and Randall is one of the options. So Randall, you have about 30 seconds to come up with a hot tip. Go. Oh, God.

• 39:25Speaker 06

  People are voting already, the longer you take.

• 39:28Speaker 05

  Hurry, Randall. Flat tires. Shooting pistols.

• 39:32Speaker 06

  Oh, when you go to the range, and the range being an empty piece of public land where you shoot. Bring a rake so you don't have to pick up, uh, individual brass cases by the thousands.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  Yep, preach. Yeah, we were shooting last weekend and Randall was like, we should have brought a rake.

• 39:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, because we littered the ground.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  Yeah. Any suggestions on a type of rake, metal rake, plastic rake?

• 39:55Speaker 06

  I would think just something with the teeth rather close together because like a two tooth three case. You know, if it gets the long way in there, you could see it sliding through, but I don't know if that's really a hot tip. We also thought we should just shoot steel cased ammo and use a magnet.

• 40:11Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 40:11Speaker 06

  But I don't, I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know if it's a hot tip. To think of it, I actually haven't used the rake tip either, so.

• 40:17Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll add a hot tip to your hot tip. Jeez, you guys are getting it all today. Pick up your.

• 40:23Speaker 06

  Damn brass. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Don't, don't be a garbage person. Pick up your brass.

• 40:28Speaker 05

  You wanna do a follow up hot tip, Randall? Based on this question, we got Garrett asking, what's the advantage of opening Fritos from the bottom of the bag as opposed to the top?

• 40:36Speaker 06

  Oh, you get at them faster if you're holding the bag upside down.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  And that's where all the good oil comes first.

• 40:43Speaker 06

  Plus, it's if, if, if you're self-conscious about what you're eating and you don't want people to be able to read the label, hold it upside down, they'll think maybe it's some sort of foreign food and you're a fancy person that buys like imported snacks. Here's another hot tip. Take Fritos on your backcountry trips because they're high in calories and you can start fires with them. And you can mix them into like a, if you know, if you have a freeze dried chili or stew or anything like that, like a Mexican mash, as I like to call most of the Mountain House southwestern meals. You just dump your Fritos in there. You're gonna be living like a king.

• 41:16Speaker 05

  Doesn't matter if they get all mashed up in your pack. It's still good. Thirty, thirty more seconds on the poll. The results are-

• 41:22Speaker 06

  How many hot tips you got going now?

• 41:24Speaker 05

  Are thrilling.

• 41:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, my hot tips are layered.

• 41:30Speaker 05

  Corey, Brody, you wanna throw any additional ones in there to try to juice, juice your numbers here? No, man.

• 41:35Speaker 06

  Don't hurt your back.

• 41:36Speaker 05

  I'll stand on mine. All right, well, with forty percent of the vote, the winner today is Randall Williams.

• 41:42Speaker 06

  Oh, what the?

• 41:44Speaker 05

  Okay, but he's not really in the show.

• 41:48Speaker 06

  What if we took his away? Who won?

• 41:51Speaker 05

  Yeah. Uh, Corey. No. Corey, nice work. God. Thanks, everybody. Okay, Randall, you can go now.

• 41:58Speaker 06

  Shout out to the crew. And by the crew, I mean the chat.

• 42:02Speaker 05

  Must have been that editing.

• 42:03Speaker 06

  You guys.

• 42:04Speaker 05

  Do we got any other, uh, feedback we wanna hit real quick? Right now? Do a couple.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  Sure, I, I, I, I will just say something really quick based on some comments. Uh, I do not speak for Meat Eater or Steve or TRCP. Putting a sitting US representative, uh, on the podcast is not platforming them. So if you're, if anything, it lets them speak more to things and you can hold them accountable for it come election season or when you call your representatives and senators. So, um, anyway, that's all I have to say about that. They already have a pretty big platform and they're writing the legislation. How is it any different than them going on the news? Exactly. Yeah. Anyway. When Rachel Maddow has Josh Hawley on, it's not, we're not-

• 42:47Speaker 06

  Platforming him, we're letting him talk. All right. Vice versa. Let's do something. Sure. Jackson Reedy says, when I cook shanks in the crock pot, the tendons turn gelatinous, but usually sticks to the meat and doesn't add much moisture, but just leaves an unpleasant texture. What am I doing wrong? Hmm.

• 43:03Speaker 05

  Hmm. Just think about your joints when you're eating that gelatinous stuff.

• 43:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's good for you. If it's not turning like almost liquidy, I don't know like what your process is for cooking them, but I would try maybe going a little less temperature and quite a bit longer. Yeah, if it's stuck to the meat, might just need some more time. Yeah. Hmm. I like that stuff. Oh, it's good. I will. But I know what he means. It can take. Sometimes it doesn't get where you want it to get. Mm hmm. Will meat theater continue to exist when radio live ends? Give me meat theater or give me death. Randall? You know, meat theater started as a fever dream in my mind, and it will always live there.

• 43:46Speaker 06

  Uh, but if you are a fan of meat theater, be sure to tune into the Meat Eater Radio Live Grand Finale Spectacular Live on what date, Phil? March 5th. March 5th. You won't be disappointed.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  We should make merch for this final episode.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  Oh, man. I think we're gonna find an investor just comes in and buys the concept. Any sponsors?

• 44:09Speaker 05

  Maybe we can sell the concept.

• 44:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. Uh, there's some questions regarding the new show and will it be live? Note, the new show will not be live. That's kind of the whole point is just so we can, uh, Steve can talk about stuff whenever he wants. We can drop it quickly. Oh no, this guy says the rake doesn't work. Uh oh. Dang it. There goes Randall's victory. Depends on the rake. Close clothes, can't change it. I've got a big, uh, I've got a big canvas, uh, drop cloth like for painting that I used as a floor in the wall tent this fall. And I thought, next time we go out, we should just spread that out on the ground and do all of our shooting. On the thing, we just roll it up like a, like a rug.

• 44:47Speaker 05

  It's kind of like when a, when a hitman kills someone on a, on a sheet of plastic.

• 44:50Speaker 06

  Dexter it up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Blood and everything.

• 44:53Speaker 05

  Randall and I have been throwing around the idea of starting a meat eater intermural pistol league.

• 44:58Speaker 06

  It's called the, it's called the M E P Lee for short. Um, some questions about, about drops and, uh, stuff like that. I will, in the first week of March, I will put together a, a, a strung together medley of all of my drops.

• 45:14Speaker 05

  And really put it on the Reddit or somewhere where you guys, you weirdos can download it.

• 45:19Speaker 06

  Can you put it on Spotify or will you get dinged?

• 45:22Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, I don't think I can do Spotify, but it's gotta be kinda under the radar.

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• 47:18Speaker 05

  Phil, we, we got Jeremy waiting for us. Uh, we actually don't, he's not in his chair right now, so we have to wait for him to come back. Yeah, this guy loves me. Jeremy Romero. He like, oh, we got good. You gonna bring him in now, Brody? Yeah, bring him in. Okay. Um, all right, up next, uh, we've got Jeremy. Jeremy Romero from the National Wildlife Federation. You might have seen Jeremy hunt with Steve on the Mediator television show. I think you guys did a couple of different shows. Down there in New Mexico. But if not, um, go watch that. I, and I can personally vouch for, for Jeremy's status as, as an all around good guy. He's a hard working wildlife conservationist.

• 48:01Speaker 05

  He helps out me and Steve on the youth deer hunt and, and this, this should tell you everything you need to know about him. He sleeps in a tool shed with the minks at Steve's fish shed. Hmm. He's a good stick in the Halibut waters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He, like, he may have been the guy who introduced. Uh, slow pitch jigging to Southeast Alaska. Yeah. The OG. Oh gee. How's that for buttering you up, Jeremy?

• 48:29Speaker 05

  Oh, uh oh, something's wrong with his audio. Audio problems.

• 48:32Speaker 06

  We're live.

• 48:33Speaker 05

  He sounded great right before this. I can keep buttering him up.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  Thank you, Brody. I appreciate the compliments.

• 48:39Speaker 05

  Hey Jeremy, really, really quick, we are getting audio from you, but it sounds like it's coming out of a tin can and we can't understand a word you're saying. So I, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to boot you from the call and you want to try to hop back in?

• 48:50Speaker 06

  I don't boot him, Phil.

• 48:52Speaker 05

  Well, he can, you. Let's see.

• 48:54Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. Kick from studio.

• 48:56Speaker 05

  All right, we're gonna, we're gonna try this again.

• 48:59Speaker 05

  I kind of like this show is ending free wheel and spirit we got going. With the wheels are just falling off.

• 49:04Speaker 06

  It was so buttoned up before, but now we can really let it all hang out.

• 49:07Speaker 05

  Really show our true colors.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  Loosen our collars.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  It's kind of like when you put your two weeks in, you kind of stop working a little bit. No, no, we actually got, we got solid numbers right now. Um.

• 49:19Speaker 06

  Do we? Oh.

• 49:21Speaker 05

  Three forty-four. Come on. We need him back. Yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the.

• 49:28Speaker 05

  Okay, let's try again.

• 49:29Speaker 06

  All the hard work is ahead of us. You think?

• 49:32Speaker 05

  The finale. Jeremy, you want to give us a few words here? Any, any better? Oh, alright. Okay. Sorry guys, I didn't, I didn't. No worries. Why that was, was messing up, but I, I should have just stayed quiet with all those nice things you guys are saying about me. Yeah, um. Man, that was nice. I appreciate it. Alright, now, now that you're feeling all good about yourself, um, I want to talk to you about state wildlife commissions and their role in guiding the, the rules and regulations that are set forth by state fish and game agencies. Uh, I, I think a lot of people maybe aren't a, aware of how these things work in regards to

• 50:12Speaker 05

  the, the, the regulations that you gotta follow in any given state. Um, a lot of people are like, ah, you know, fish and game or parks and wildlife, they do this or they do that. But in a lot of cases, it's like, they're doing these things at the behest of what state wildlife commissions kind of like, how, how they steer them into a, in a, a particular management strategy. Um, so Jeremy, give us a quick breakdown of what a state wildlife commission is and, and who they're supposed to represent as far as different user groups and stakeholders and, and then like how they actually end up guiding the policies of state fish and game agencies.

• 50:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, you bet. And, and first of all, thanks for, for having me on the show. Yep. Um, you know, you bring up a really good point and a lot of people don't quite understand, you know, what, and you know, what game commissions do and game commissioners and their responsibilities and roles with working with the, with the Department of Game and Fishes. And so, you know, I, I think it's important to note that these commissioners are tasked with setting the rules and regulations, as you mentioned, you know, hunting dates as well as quota limits and things like, uh, usable weapon type. Um, they're also tasked with hiring and. overseeing and managing the directors of the departments, deputy directors.

• 51:37Speaker 05

  Um, it kind of goes, it it kind of varies depending on the state and how the department is made up. But they also are tasked with, you know, receiving a lot of that public input. And trying to incorporate that into management level decisions, but. At the end of the day, the the folks that work with the departments. They propose different ideas, different recommendations as far as like the rules changes, policy changes. And at the end of the day, the game, the the game and fish commissions are the ones that are tasked with voting to finally. Approve or adopt those measures that go into those proclamations that you see that. You know, identify hunt dates, species types, weapon types, et cetera. So they they play a a pretty important role.

• 52:21Speaker 05

  And, you know, most states, uh, the number of commissioners is different. But a lot of times what I've seen is, you know, in that five to seven range. Um, and they really, they are really tasked with an important role of overseeing the game agencies. And they. Budgets, improving budgets, all that, all those types. And generally, they they're supposed to represent. Different user groups and stakeholders, correct? Like. There there will be like a commissioner that represents the ranching community. There'll be a commissioner that represents like. Outfitters and guides. There'll be a commissioner that represents like. Wildlife biology, et cetera, et cetera. Like, is that, is that correct?

• 53:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, that that's exactly right. So usually you see a few at-large seats. So people fill in those commission roles for various reasons, but a lot of times by law. Those commissioners have to represent those different stakeholder groups or those different demographics. And so, as you mentioned, you'll have. A a rancher or a a farmer on the commission. You will have. A hunter or an angler. In some instances, you'll have a a an indigenous member from a federally recognized tribe. And sometimes you'll have seats that are filled based off of geography. Um, in different states. And so, you know, it's important to point out that in most situations, in most states across our country.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  Commissioners are appointed at the discretion of the governors. So you have a new governor that comes in office newly elected. And they essentially appoint a new slate of. Of commissioners. Yeah. The hope would be that those that the governor or the overseeing body points those commissioners that are qualified to serve in these roles, right? Qualified or knowledgeable and doing so to represent the best interests of hunters, anglers and wildlife management. Yep. Um, that's not always the case. Yeah, let's, let's, let's kind of pause. I don't, I don't want you to roll too far ahead of us yet.

• 54:30Speaker 05

  Um, I was, I was gonna, you already answered my question, which is how are wildlife commissioners chosen? Most of the time it their governor appointees. Um, and I want to address that before you, before we move on. Um, in states like Colorado, Washington, you may have some other examples that use this system where these people are appointed directly by the governor. We've seen wildlife commissioners who are like openly anti-hunting end up on these commissions. And, and these are the people who end up shaping the policy, at least can like affect the policy of state fish and game agencies.

• 55:15Speaker 05

  Is there any, do you have any other state examples you're aware of that were like? Well, you. You know, in Washington, things happened like spring bear hunting got outlawed. Um, in Colorado, the, the wildlife commissioners got involved with things like the wolf reintroduction in, in ways that probably weren't in the best interests of hunters, anglers and wildlife management.

• 55:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, you guys have done a phenomenal job of what's been happening in Colorado and Boston.

• 55:52Speaker 06

  And there really aren't a whole lot of examples, you know, we'll touch on kind of what's happened in in New Mexico, but the other one that comes to mind, which wasn't exactly, you know, the full responsibility responsibility of the game commission, but we saw, you know, in New Jersey with the black bear hunting and trying to reduce black bear hunting. That wasn't all the commission's fault, but it was very much a politically driven effort. So you can, you can, you know, say that it was indirectly, um, you know, attributed to, to commission level impact. You know, you, you bring up an important point, which is sometimes you'll have commissioners that are appointed by the governor that just do not serve the best interests of the hunting, hunting angling or wildlife management communities.

• 56:33Speaker 06

  But there's also the flip side, right? The flip side is that you have these qualified commissioners that do represent, you know, the, the hunting, angling and wildlife management uh, world, but at the same time, when they bring up controversial topics that, you know, the hunting, hunting and angling community want to see brought up, sometimes they're removed. Sometimes they're removed from those seats without any valid justification whatsoever.

• 57:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, because it's at the will of the governor, right?

• 57:03Speaker 06

  Correct. Yeah, absolutely. And so I can get into, you know, a little bit of what New Mexico did to help.

• 57:08Speaker 07

  Yeah, let's, let's talk about that. You, your home state is New Mexico and up until this past year, New Mexico's wildlife commissioners were, were appointed by the governor, but this, uh, a, a bill recently passed in, in New Mexico that mandates that the commissioners be selected through a different process. So can you explain what the process in New Mexico will be going forward and whether you think that's going to be an improvement on, on the current like governor appointed system?

• 57:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. So, so last year, New Mexico, a bunch of conservation organizations came together, formed a coalition and pursued a bill. It's called, uh, Senate Bill Five. It was. The title of it was game commission reform. Um, there was a lot in that bill, so I'll just quickly touch on it. Part of it was renaming the wildlife, uh, the game and fish agency to Department of Wildlife. Changed the mission of that, um, increased license fees, which were much needed for game and fish agencies. Our, our licenses in New Mexico hadn't been increased, and I want to say around 20 years. So, you know, kind of meeting current cost of, of, of living and inflation and adjusting those prices accordingly. Bringing in more funds to the agency.

• 58:21Speaker 06

  But the most important piece, the most, and the most important piece that's relevant to this conversation was, you know, the section of the bill that it, that reformed kind of the way our wildlife commission is, is created. And so the wildlife commission will still have seven voting members. Um, instead of being appointed by the governor, there is now a, a, uh, wildlife commission nominating committee. So this is a little bit of a, another layer of protection that insulates these commissioners from just being appointed for, for specific government intra, or governor interests.

• 58:58Speaker 05

  Who, real quick. Who, who makes up that committee? Is it state legis, members from the state legislature or who, who?

• 59:06Speaker 06

  So there are members of the state legislature. There's also the, the, the director, the directors from both of the, which is, it's actually pretty cool. The directors from, you know, the wildlife conservation biology, um, wildlife, wildlife biology programs at both of the universities in New Mexico, the large, largest university. So University of New Mexico and New Mexico State University. Um, a, as well as some of the directors from the agencies within the state government. So, um, I want to say it was, you know, the director of or secretary of. Energy and minerals, natural resources, those, those types of roles.

• 59:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:49Speaker 06

  It's a pretty comprehensive list of, of folks that form that nominating committee.

• 59:54Speaker 05

  Great. Um, so now, now you'll have this new process and, and in your opinion, do you think it's going to be an improvement on how the commission is able to act in the best interests of the people in New Mexico and the wildlife in New Mexico?

• 1:00:12Speaker 06

  Hundred percent, a hundred percent. And, you know, in that criteria for appointing those new, those new members to a nominating committee, they have some, some restrictions to do so, right? So there's a seven, uh, you know, seven commission members of which three of them are at large. So really they can be nominated for a lot of different reasons. Um, you know, one of the members has to be from federally recognized tribe that represents, you know, tribal interests. No more than two members can be affiliated with the same political party, those initial three at large members. Um, the remaining four, one of them has to be a farmer or rancher who actively farms or ranches where

• 1:00:55Speaker 06

  two big game species are frequently present.

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 1:00:58Speaker 06

  Right? Not someone who's, who's a rancher or a farmer that has, you know, political interests or ties to administration. They have to be in an area where big game are, are present. So that's important. Another member has, is, it has to be a conservationist, working from a conservation organization that has been employed in the conservation field for at least four years. The other one has to be hunter and angler, um, or, you know, it could be both. And they had to have had a license, a hunting and fishing license for four years. And then the last person is a scientist who holds at least a master's degree in wildlife biology, conservation biology, fishery, science, et cetera.

• 1:01:43Speaker 06

  Um, and term limits for those commissioners are six-year terms and they can only serve two terms. So, you know, that in of itself creates a a buffer from being able to be with, you know, appointed for a lot of different interests that brings a lot of knowledge and expertise. And, you know, quite frankly, qualified individuals to serve on these seats. And then the other important piece of of that legislation was it, is it prevented, the way it was initially written was it created a much more formal process for a governor to remove a commission member. You know, eight years ago, we had two commissioners, a the chair and the vice chair of the commission here in New Mexico

• 1:02:27Speaker 06

  that brought up some topics that were controversial. Um, I think those topics, in my opinion, were, you know, were within the best interest of of helping hunting and hunters and anglers in New Mexico. As a result of those efforts, the governor overnight removed those commissioners.

• 1:02:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think that's, that's the best thing about this is it it it kind of puts a roadblock i- i- in the way of a governor who might wanna like push their own agenda through the state fishing game agency, like, like we've seen in states like Colorado. Um, it kinda, i- i- it puts a stopper on that, which is, in my opinion, a really good thing.

• 1:03:09Speaker 06

  In these, in these processes where you have commissioners representing, you know, what's best for the hunting and angling and wildlife management world. You know, you want those checks and balances.

• 1:03:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 06

  You don't want, you know, a governor to remove a commissioner because they're doing the right thing. You know, you, you don't want commissioners serving in these roles for reasons other than, you know, the best interests of the hunting, angling and wildlife management worlds. So it it really is a good thing. I hope other states, you know, adopt these measures to really, you know, insulate their commissions to best serve members of of those states. Um, you know, a lot of this goes into effect next year, and so we're, we're really gonna get to see when, you know, as rubber, as rubber meets the road, what this looks like, but I, I imagine that. It's gonna be nothing but but good news for for the state of New Mexico and hopefully

• 1:04:04Speaker 06

  other states see it as a as a model and start to adopt it if they don't already have a a similar model, you know, in place. The the one thing I did want to mention, Rhodey, was, you know, in that in that section to remove a commissioner, there was a lengthy section there that provided more of that formal, you know, process to remove a commissioner. And at the time, the governor ended up vetoing or line vetoing a lot of that section to the only remaining, so the only remaining section there for the removal process is a commissioner can be removed if it is deemed that they are, and, you know, and if they're illustrating

• 1:04:46Speaker 06

  incompetence, you know, neglect of duty or malfeasance in that in that office. Now, there's similar efforts in this legislative session to kind of reinsert that language. So there's a much more formal process that has to go through the courts if, in fact, it is deemed that a commissioner should be removed. So that's that's one piece worth noting, and I think it provides those different layers of of, you know, of oversight before something like that happens.

• 1:05:15Speaker 05

  Um, one last thing about these state wildlife commissions that I wanna I want you to talk about that, again, people may not be aware of, like, these people, you should look at them almost like one of your congressional representatives or state legislature representatives, like, they're there to represent you. Um, they work for you. Um, so and and people may not be aware that they can interact with these people and communicate with them. And so I just wanted you to touch on how people can do that. How can they let their voices be heard to these these state wildlife commissions?

• 1:05:55Speaker 06

  And it's it's incredibly important that people understand that they can connect with these these commissioners. Why? Because a lot of times these commissioners represent those constituents, right? So if there's an issue that you're facing, if there's a problem or even an opportunity in your areas or something you do when it comes to hunting and fishing, like being able to communicate that to a commissioner so they can then also carry a little bit of that weight and advocate it at the department level is is important. And so, you know, most game and fish websites have a commission page where it identifies all the different commissioners that are sitting in those seats, uh, provides contact information. Usually their email, you can reach out to them via via email and express your concern concerns frustrations or,

• 1:06:38Speaker 06

  you know, commend them for the good work there they could they could be doing. Um, another important resource and a way to commission uh, to communicate with those commissioners is at the public meeting level. Most state game departments have public commission meetings. You know, this is where those rules and regulations and setting budgets and approving them and, you know, hearing from what the department wants to do but needs that approval. This is the, this is the setting for that. And so most of these commission meetings are publicly advertised via the the game department's websites. You can go and attend these meetings. Um, there's also, and I would say all of the meetings, there's a carve out for for public

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  participation where you can go up there, um, you know, and talk about the issues that are that are most concerning to you. Um, and at the end of the day, if you don't, you don't feel comfortable doing that in a public setting, you can at least introduce yourself and meet the commissioners, you know, in person at these at these commission level meetings. And I would say those, those two are probably the most uh, important ways to communicate with your commissioners to to hopefully see the work, the good work be done and and reflect the best interests of of the hunting and angling and wildlife management communities.

• 1:07:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, they'll they'll often be like, uh, Like a question, comment, uh, opinion, like survey type thing attached to those meetings that you can fill out too. Um, and, and that goes to those commissioners as well.

• 1:08:09Speaker 06

  Um, the only, the only thing I want to point out is it's like for the commission is, you know, with the current attacks that we've seen on on the angling at the, at the commission levels, like not only important for you to commissioners, that's, that's an important piece, but also reaching out to the different, you know, to the agencies directly as well as to the different conservation, uh, organizations that are, that are advocating for these bills are, you know, working day and night to see, you know, commission reform take place. Like it's worth, uh, it's weight and goal to reach out and support those organizations because those are the ones that are going to go to bat for you on, on issues like this. And they're,

• 1:08:51Speaker 06

  you know, the tip of the spear when it comes to seeing legislation like what happened in New Mexico, get over the finish line. So I want to emphasize, you know, reaching out and supporting those conservation organizations because they do play a critical role in this whole, this whole piece.

• 1:09:04Speaker 05

  Yep, for sure. Organizations like yours, uh, New Mexico Wildlife Federation, you mentioned, but, but any of them, you know, BHA, they're, they're all, they're all working for you. So.

• 1:09:17Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:18Speaker 05

  Um, all right, Jeremy, we got to move on, but thanks for, thanks for joining us today and talking to us.

• 1:09:25Speaker 06

  Thanks guys for having me. I gotta go get some lunch after hearing Lucas talk about those.

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 06

  Flakes and curry and smashed grouse breast. I gotta go eat, but I appreciate you all for, for letting me chat with you today and I feel like the rest of the show.

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  Great. Thanks, man. Thanks, Jeremy. All right. Did you learn anything there? I always learn something when, when I'm around Jeremy.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

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• 1:11:56Speaker 05

  All right, man. This one I'm hoping will be fun. We're going to do some, some fan emails and we'll try and, you know, get some feedback from the crew here. This is, this is one that, that I think is very interesting. And I'll, I'll, I'll read through it here for you guys. Uh, this is coming from Peter in Vancouver Island, British Columbia.

• 1:12:22Speaker 05

  Uh, family members and I have been traveling northeast Montana each fall to hunt pheasants for about 15 years. Uh, we've done our homework scoping out habitat, establishing relationships with landowners. It's been a great time, but changes are afoot. Recently passed Senate Bill 514 will give Montana residents a head start on the season by 10 days. My cohort and I obviously think this is a bad idea. We will probably head to North Dakota for, uh, next season opener. I think this is a good one for your show to tackle, um, including why, uh, the state doesn't give preferential treatment to residents for fishing. Uh, quite certain the same folks from western Montana clamoring for preferential treatment

• 1:13:06Speaker 05

  for upland hunting in eastern Montana would strongly oppose such a change strictly for economic reasons. Okay. This guy is bummed that he can't hunt the dumb young of the year birds anymore before they get shot at. Like, I get it, I pheasant hunt. Um, they're ea- they're a lot easier to kill in the first week of the season. I, I, like, I'll let everyone weigh in, but I'm gonna say one thing to this guy first. And I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's just the reality of, like, being a non-resident. I cannot go to British Columbia and hunt big game unless I hire a guide. Like, preferential treatment for residents, right?

• 1:13:51Speaker 05

  Um, it's just the way things work. Um, as far as his fishing thing, like, fishing and hunting are, it's like, you can't compare it. It's like apples and oranges. But I'll give you an example where resident anglers are highly prioritized over non-res, and that's Alaska. Like, we deal with it every year, man. Like, the limits are very strict, uh, compared to what residents can do for many species of fish. So, states do, in some cases, prioritize residents, uh, for fishing. Um, and, and like it or not, this is just like a larger trend that's been going on across western states for the last several years. Um.

• 1:14:37Speaker 05

  The fact is like no state is under the obligation to provide equal access and opportunity to that state's game resources to non-residents. Like they're just not. States could be, a state could be like, we're not letting any resident, non-residents hunt here. Um, the, the reason these things, these things happen is because state fishing game agencies and wildlife commissions, like we just talked about, they're, they're under an obligation to try and satisfy the resident hunters. Like they, they gotta keep those people happy. They need the money from non-resident license sales. Like there's no doubt about that, but there's a social

• 1:15:19Speaker 05

  component to this and that's that residents get priority and their satisfaction with their experience is important. Um, you've seen this happen over the past few years. Colorado no longer issues over the counter archery elk licenses to non-residents. Wyoming, Colorado have cut non-resident rifle draw tags pretty significantly. Montana reduced non-resident mule deer tags. So like this is a thing that's, that's been happening across the West and it, and it is the result of kind of how residents feel about their hunting experience. Um, I feel for you. Like I understand it, but uh, you know, I'm kinda like, it is what it is, man.

• 1:16:04Speaker 05

  Um, I understand why you'd go to North Dakota, but you know, it's 10 days out of a three month long season. If you want to continue to hunt Montana, you could. You're just missing the first 10 days of the season. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts. I, I agree. A hundred percent. You nailed it. Yeah, you're spot on. I mean, North Dakota is probably going to see a little influx if a lot of folks in these same shoes as this fellow, but I don't know. Think of the positives. It's like you said, it is what it is. So opening day won't be as chaotic. Right. That next week might be that much easier and you might find just as many birds, especially if you've done your homework and you got places to hunt.

• 1:16:42Speaker 05

  There could be like some minor economic impacts to small towns out in eastern Montana that, you know, may not get. You know, people coming into the restaurants or the campgrounds or whatever, as many, you know. Yeah. Um, I will say that the pheasant opener coincides with the antelope opener. So, you know, I don't know how much of an impact it's gonna have. A busy weekend. Randall, you got nothing there?

• 1:17:08Speaker 07

  Oh, I just, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's kind of baked into the system and, uh. You know, obviously like there's no perfect balance. I don't know what, what that would look like if, you know, I'm sure there's somebody who. Lives in a state with real bad hunting and fishing, although I think there's, you can always find like everywhere has something to offer, but. If everybody could buy a resident license in Montana, that wouldn't work.

• 1:17:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:17:39Speaker 07

  And we can't shut out non-residents completely. Like, I wouldn't want to do that. But you're always gonna have to find some middle ground between those two extremes. And so, um. It's true, the overall trend, um, is, is that non-resident opportunities are declining across the west. And yeah, like I'm affected by that as well, like states, states where I have bonus points and preference points. That are limiting the percentage of non-resident tags, um, you know, it's hurting me as well. So. I don't know what the, what the perfect situation looks like. I think we'd all like to turn back the clock to the glory days of the.

• 1:18:19Speaker 07

  Whatever the seventies, eighties, nineties, when it seemed like, uh, you could. If you had the money, you could travel across the west and, and get tags and hunt as much as you wanted, but. The reality is it's a finite resource. So we're left with this unfortunate balancing act that as you point out, it sort of structurally is tipped in the favor of residents pretty extremely. So.

• 1:18:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:18:45Speaker 07

  I don't know.

• 1:18:47Speaker 05

  Um, and it's not just a Western issue. Try getting away till tag in Iowa and you'll know what I'm talking about. Um, it's not easy. All right. There you go.

• 1:18:57Speaker 07

  Good one.

• 1:18:58Speaker 05

  Sorry. Sorry to, to the guy from, from B C. Hope, hope you have a good hunt in North Dakota. Um, all right. Next one. Where is it? This one's kind of long. I'm going to try and shorten it as much as I can. I would really like to get your opinion, uh, to help settle a bit of neighborhood etiquette question involving three whitetail carcasses and my neighbors love of their dogs. I live on the outskirts of town in a development, consists about 15 homes that sit on four to five acre parcels that are a mixture of yard, woods and prairie. I have three acres woods that are between my house and the county road. I have good relationships with all my neighbors, most

• 1:19:40Speaker 05

  of which have a dog or two that can run relatively free. Um, last year, our group shot three deer and we processed them at my place. I had three carcasses I had to dispose of. I thought nothing of it and put them, uh, out of sight from the road out in the middle of his woods. Um, you know, it's, it says it's cold here, so there wouldn't be any concern over smell. And by springtime, all that would be left was a few bones. Um,

• 1:20:09Speaker 05

  my first mistake is he didn't do this over the cover of darkness. I, I don't know about that. If that was his first mistake. Um, one of the neighbors saw me dragging carcass into the woods. Um, and within a day I had multiple people questioning me. Um, they're a little irritated about the, the carcasses and the dogs getting into them and the possibility that he was attracting predators to the area. Um, he brushed off those concerns, um, but he did find it humorous when he saw a dog from three doors down, walking up the road a month later with a deer leg in his mouth. Um, anyway, he's want now wondering, um, what's your take? What should, what should he do? Find somewhere else to dump them? Wait till

• 1:20:53Speaker 05

  dark and sneak in there. Um,

• 1:20:58Speaker 05

  You know.

• 1:21:00Speaker 05

  This isn't a huge problem necessarily. Um, it's your property and you can do what you want, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.

• 1:21:10Speaker 05

  Your neighbors do have a point, um, and I'd rather have happy neighbors like. Uh, you know, i- it's not too hard to throw deer bones, it like a whole deer bone, boned out carcass into a trash can. I do it all the time. Um, and if coyotes do come in, they will mess up a dog or two. Um, there's nothing illegal about what you're doing, doing more than likely, but there possibly could be. Um, and you should consider disposing of those carcasses properly, not only because of the dogs. Be- because of CWD concerns.

• 1:21:50Speaker 05

  I don't know if you're getting your deer tested or not, but dumping carcasses is a good way to spread CWD around. So whatever you do, don't go dump them out on public land somewhere. That like, that's the main thing. Put them in the trash is the, is the best thing I would say. I don't know if you guys feel like I'm being a little hard on this guy, but. No, that's the honest truth. I mean, Steve throws deer carcasses on the roof of his. Yeah. You know, it's on the roof at least. If you don't want your neighbor, if you don't want your dog eating deer that's on the neighbors, don't let them go on the neighbors. True. Right. Like your dogs probably shouldn't be going on like, if my dog goes over in the neighbor's yard, I say, hey. Yep. Get over here.

• 1:22:34Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 1:22:34Steven Rinella?

  I agree. I mean, if it's, if the carcass is on his property. Uh, sounds like your neighbor needs a fence.

• 1:22:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, unless the neighbors helping.

• 1:22:43Speaker 05

  It's like they, nobody, it's like, uh, it's like, um, everyone agrees that it's cool that the dogs roam around. I don't think he's saying these dogs are a problem. You know what I mean?

• 1:22:53Steven Rinella?

  Well, I know, but like if you're the type of person that doesn't want your dog getting into stuff and you got an issue with.

• 1:23:00Speaker 05

  Right. Yeah. Keep your dog on your property.

• 1:23:02Steven Rinella?

  But yeah, I mean.

• 1:23:05Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. I don't think the neighbors are helping that guy pay his property taxes, so they don't really have a say. Let me add another hot tip. This isn't really pertinent.

• 1:23:15Steven Rinella?

  But, uh, along the lines of the brass, don't be the guy that drives to a trailhead and dumps like four whitetail carcasses. Three feet off the gravel in the bushes. Um, that's, that's where I have an issue with people like just being sloppy public land stewards. You know, if, as far as I'm concerned, if you want to leave your carcasses in your, in your woods, in your living room, whatever.

• 1:23:43Speaker 05

  No, like I said, I'm cool with it, but if you want, if it's like, if you're weighing how important it is to like, not have a beef with your neighbors, you know?

• 1:23:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:55Speaker 05

  You can throw those carcasses in the trash.

• 1:23:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that'd be the best. And plenty of people do that who don't have access to, uh, woods where they can let them stink, you know? Yeah, I do that all the time.

• 1:24:07Speaker 05

  Um, all right, Seth, this one's, I'll, I'll let you hit this one first. Um, I don't mean this in any sort of critical, judgmental or confrontational way. I'm just curious about your thoughts on meat for, from fur bearing animals. Recently, uh, the, I don't know how recent this is. It's talking about, pardon my plate, muskrats, which.

• 1:24:29Steven Rinella?

  That's long.

• 1:24:30Speaker 05

  He's just catching up, I guess. Anyway, it still applies. Um, Steve says he's trapped perhaps a thousand muskrats, but only eaten 20. That got me wondering, do you find that hypocritical? Since we're always championing want, want and waste laws and maximizing the use from the meat. What do trappers do with all the meat if they're not eating it? Dog food? Would it also be okay? I, I'm not sure where he's going with this part. Would it also be okay if someone turned a whole whitetail into dog food? Like, let's not even worry about that yet. Let's stick with the trapping thing. Um, I just think it's an interesting question. I don't mean it to be condemning. Doesn't bother me. In fact, I'd really like to get into trapping myself. I just haven't made the effort, but I'm interested in how you deal with

• 1:25:15Speaker 05

  that potential conflict.

• 1:25:17Steven Rinella?

  Um, I mean, some things are good to eat, like beaver muskrats, but. Yeah, we ate, we ate bobcat down in Texas a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:25:27Steven Rinella?

  But if it was like, as far as like want. Waste laws. If states required you to eat coyotes.

• 1:25:34Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:25:34Steven Rinella?

  No one would trap or kill coyotes.

• 1:25:36Speaker 05

  There is no want waste law for for many fur wearing species.

• 1:25:40Steven Rinella?

  And if there is, it's just like you have to harvest the fur.

• 1:25:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I I don't, I think it's okay to have a resource that you're using that's using for fur and it's it's not. It's it's okay that you're not using.

• 1:25:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:55Speaker 05

  I know we harp on that all the time, the meat thing, but like, look, man, like it it's okay to go trap a fox or a skunk or like whatever fur bear and not eat it.

• 1:26:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:09Speaker 05

  You know, you shouldn't have to feel bad about that.

• 1:26:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:13Steven Rinella?

  But if you know, if you want to try some bobcat backstraps.

• 1:26:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:26:18Steven Rinella?

  Let's get weird.

• 1:26:18Speaker 05

  Raccoon, we've got raccoon rest. So like, look, there is opportunity for to eat some of these things for sure. But I I don't think you should necessarily feel obligated to do so.

• 1:26:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's like shooting of of what is it? The fall bears in Alaska, you're not required to.

• 1:26:36Speaker 05

  Right, cuz they're.

• 1:26:37Steven Rinella?

  Because it just tastes terrible.

• 1:26:38Speaker 05

  Yep, yep. Um, all right, last one. I threw a venison shank into my instant pot last weekend. Everything was great, except the last meal. One of the last bites, I ended up finding a mushroom bullet.

• 1:26:53Steven Rinella?

  Oof.

• 1:26:53Speaker 05

  I initially thought it was a chunk of bone. My question, I tried asking Google and couldn't seem to word it right to get the answer I was looking for was, did that instant pot just make a lead based broth? That I consumed entirely by myself and should I be concerned? I can't say I know the science behind pressure cooking meat and lead bullets together. No. You do not have to worry about it. Um. Otherwise, uh, like, people who shoot all kinds of small game and birds would die of lead poisoning, like we're picking lead out of meat that we've cooked all the time. Humans can't absorb lead through their solid lead through their digestive system.

• 1:27:37Speaker 05

  Um, lead poisoning is like from inhaling dust particles from old lead best base paint and things like that. Now, if you cooked it past like six hundred degrees, then you'd be in trouble cuz that lead would melt.

• 1:27:51Steven Rinella?

  I'd rather find that lead in the. In the crock pot than in a turd, you know? Just to be safe.

• 1:27:56Speaker 05

  Right, right. But no, it's, it's not gonna hurt you. Um, your, your gut is not as strong as like an eagle or a condor where like you're gonna break that lead down to the point where it's gonna poison you.

• 1:28:08Steven Rinella?

  I gotta know what that shank looked like and who shot? Yeah, I was just gonna say, why? Why is there mushroom bullet in the shank?

• 1:28:14Speaker 05

  No, listen, it wasn't him. I, I give this guy credit. What's his name? Brian?

• 1:28:19Steven Rinella?

  Less worried about the shot, but the meat had to have been-

• 1:28:21Speaker 05

  Hold on, I, I shortened this thing for, to make it shorter.

• 1:28:25Steven Rinella?

  Thank you.

• 1:28:26Speaker 05

  Um, he, that bullet was already in there. He just found it in there.

• 1:28:30Steven Rinella?

  Interesting. Oh, cool.

• 1:28:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Steven Rinella?

  And it maybe it healed over and you couldn't tell, huh?

• 1:28:35Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:28:35Steven Rinella?

  Interesting. Wow. Yeah, you never know what you're gonna bite into in there.

• 1:28:38Speaker 05

  Um, that's it for the, the, uh, Meat Eater Correspondence inbox.

• 1:28:44Steven Rinella?

  That's fun.

• 1:28:45Speaker 05

  Um, Bill?

• 1:28:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:48Speaker 05

  What, what's the chat saying?

• 1:28:49Steven Rinella?

  Chat's mostly trying to figure out a way to save the show, starting underground, uh, letter campaigns. Oh, good. So we'll see how that, uh, plays out for them. Excited to get an update on that. Uh, this is from Papa Medic. Papa's for Seth. Two-part question. Well, not two parts, but it's just long. Seth, I'm trying to save some money by making my own predator bait for trapping. Hmm. I'm using a commercial bait solution with sodium benzenate. I don't have any beaver meat at the moment, but I do have two frozen bobcats. Should I use the bobcat meat or wait until I have a beaver? Targeting coyotes, primarily coyotes, if you're a west coast child. How, also, how tainted? Thanks. I, I think a lot of, uh,

• 1:29:30Steven Rinella?

  bait and lure makers would say that bobcat's better than beaver meat.

• 1:29:35Speaker 05

  Is that right?

• 1:29:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I know Steve right now has a, a jar of bobcat meat in his garage that's, he's tainting, um, for, for bait.

• 1:29:45Speaker 05

  For goats. But you'd be good with either one, right?

• 1:29:48Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, go with either one, but I, I do think, I've never made bait before, but I think people prefer bobcat meat.

• 1:29:55Speaker 05

  That's interesting. Wonder why?

• 1:29:56Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so use the bobcat. Try it.

• 1:30:00Speaker 05

  After we just told you you should be eating it.

• 1:30:02Steven Rinella?

  Let us know before March 5th. How it went. Uh, from Mogor, question for Randall. Hi, Randall. And these remaining few five radio live episodes-

• 1:30:10Speaker 05

  Will there be a Butcher's Crossing review?

• 1:30:15Speaker 05

  Or should we no longer expect it? Thank you so much. A lot of pressure.

• 1:30:18Speaker 07

  Mogor. You gotta do it for Mogor. Mogor, is that your number one choice? Could we ask Mogor in the chat if that's his number one choice?

• 1:30:27Speaker 05

  We can get a top three from Mogor.

• 1:30:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, if I could get a top three, the issue is Mogor, we have a limited number of shows. Um, I will only be on a few of them because I have a bit of travel coming up in the month of February. And at this point, knowing that I only have a set number of, of movie clubs. Um, I'm really thinking about opening up the, the catalog of films. I'd, I'd like to, I'm entertaining the idea of Jurassic Park Congo. Any sort of Michael Crichton based wildlife centric film.

• 1:31:04Speaker 07

  I, I want to get loose with it. I feel like we have this platform that we can now use to just transgress all boundaries of good taste and judgment.

• 1:31:14Speaker 05

  The rules have been thrown out the window, so it was.

• 1:31:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, maybe Deliverance.

• 1:31:18Speaker 05

  Free to do whatever you want.

• 1:31:19Speaker 07

  Maybe we do do the, the Deliverance movie club, but yeah, if you have, if you have strong thoughts Mogor, I would like to, uh, I would like to throw you a bone. So tell me your number one movie will do it.

• 1:31:31Speaker 05

  Cool. Let us know.

• 1:31:34Speaker 05

  Uh, this is from Brian Lammers. It's also a loyal, loyal, uh, live watcher.

• 1:31:39Speaker 07

  Cal who?

• 1:31:40Speaker 05

  Update on Cal. Has the crew been in contact? Who's this Cal guy? I've forgotten, I've, I've. I tried texting Cal. Blacked and I don't remember who that is. I tried texting Cal, uh, yesterday about the pheasant thing we were talking about earlier. Still haven't heard from him. Uh, Cal's a busy man.

• 1:31:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, I heard he's been real busy. He had time for a couple beers on Friday. Um, and he texted me over the weekend to ask me to, uh, plug his trailer in so that the batteries weren't, uh, damaged, uh, by the cold. He just wanted to maintain his batteries. Um, he has time for an occasional long phone call. I don't know if people out there know this, but when you get a phone call from Cal, it typically goes until it has to be.

• 1:32:32Speaker 07

  You have to hang up because someone needs to do something else.

• 1:32:36Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:32:36Speaker 07

  It's sort of an open ended conversation. He might have another conversation with someone in the room with him as you're on the phone with him. Um, he's gotten a couple of those. Uh, he seems to be doing well, but very, obviously there's a lot going on. So it was very stressed. And, uh, but yeah, he is still finding time to wet the whistle every now and then.

• 1:32:56Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I would say if you haven't listened to Cal's week in review in these last

• 1:33:00Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:01Speaker 05

  Six, seven years that it's been running. Now's a, a good time to do it because it's a whole new perspective. He's got a, he's got a very different job than he used to have. And, and he talks about it at the top of the show every week. The stuff he's doing, where he's going. Um, I would, I would recommend it.

• 1:33:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm still hoping I can get him to come over for stew this week. Got a lot of stew. Need some mouths.

• 1:33:22Speaker 05

  Phil, I want to do a couple more because I don't know if I'm going to be hosting this thing before the end. You really? I'm not sure. Okay. Well, yeah, there haven't been a lot of direct questions that we usually get. People are mostly talking about the show ending, which is I mean, Randall hijacked the whole show.

• 1:33:37Speaker 07

  You know what's funny? I didn't even think about this. I got a DM yesterday that said, can you just go F off and not be on every podcast?

• 1:33:46Speaker 06

  Let it out.

• 1:33:46Speaker 05

  I feel the same way, Randall.

• 1:33:48Speaker 07

  You love yourself. We get it. It's too much. There's something along those lines. And it hadn't occurred to me that now

• 1:33:55Speaker 05

  You didn't check who sent that to you, did you?

• 1:33:57Speaker 07

  I've just showed up to a podcast that I'm not even supposed to be on. So maybe that guy has a point.

• 1:34:03Speaker 05

  That was, that was my, that was my burner Instagram account. Burst through the door at like 1058.

• 1:34:09Speaker 07

  Two bags of chips and a Diet Coke. It's not because I love myself. It's because I love you guys.

• 1:34:15Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:34:15Speaker 07

  If, if I wasn't here, I'd be up sitting in my office alone staring at books. But I can come in here and enjoy this.

• 1:34:21Speaker 05

  Show, but it's making me more excited for the, for the big blowout.

• 1:34:24Speaker 07

  Books and used firearms. The blowout spectacular is going to, oh God, I'm so excited.

• 1:34:29Speaker 05

  One more, Phil. I don't, okay. Come on, man. Guys, get, get the question. The first one I see that catches my eye gets read.

• 1:34:38Speaker 05

  Hmm. Guys, have any plans this weekend?

• 1:34:40Speaker 06

  Needs a lot of exclamation points.

• 1:34:43Speaker 07

  Somebody said, good taste and judgment.

• 1:34:45Speaker 05

  When is Randall getting his haircut on Radio Live? It sounds like a great segment for the blowout spectacular.

• 1:34:50Speaker 07

  We should do that for the grand blowout spectacular.

• 1:34:53Speaker 05

  I have a pair of clippers at home.

• 1:34:55Speaker 07

  No, no, we're not cutting it that much.

• 1:34:56Speaker 05

  Oh, you know, we should do is have 10 people involved and each, each person gets like 30 seconds. Oh.

• 1:35:03Speaker 07

  Oh, oh, on my hair?

• 1:35:04Speaker 05

  On your hair. We could put your hair in the auction house of oddities. I was gonna say, you probably donate that hair at this point. Like I said, things are just falling apart here. Yeah. Brody closed his computer already. Yep. All right, that's all we got for you today, guys. Um, thanks for joining. Tune in next week.

• 1:35:23Speaker 07

  We love you guys. The, the, the Radio Live going away is not in any way a reflection on our love for the crowd here, so. See you next week.

• 1:35:31Speaker 05

  Have a great week.

• 1:35:35Speaker 05

  Bye. Should I play the outro video?

• 1:35:36Speaker 07

  Play the outro.

• 1:35:37Speaker 05

  Hit it, Phil!

• 1:35:37Speaker 07

  You're usually so timely.

• 1:35:39Speaker 05

  I know, I'm just thinking about, I just don't want the show to end.

• 1:35:53Steven Rinella?

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