Selects: How Publicists Work

Some people call them flacks. Other people call them liars. But if you're in the public eye and suddenly have an image problem, you'll call them your best friend. Learn all about them in this classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:18Speaker 02

  So it's really not a job that would get a lot of billable hours, if you know what I mean. But anyway, it's a pretty fascinating, weird job. And we heard from a few publicists, I believe, when we recorded this, so maybe we'll hear from some again. How publicists, publicists, publicists work.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:50Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry. So Stuff You Should Know. This is it.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Well, that's Like you're introducing the final episode.

• 2:04Josh Clark?

  My voice.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 2:06Josh Clark?

  Feels like it's the final episode.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  You won't be able to talk anymore.

• 2:10Josh Clark?

  No, I'm getting there.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  It's not true.

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  You don't know that.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Uh, how's it going?

• 2:19Josh Clark?

  It's going pretty well, man. How about with you?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Uh, I think both of us had a bit of a dark time researching this article.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  Why?

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Well, because, and we're gonna get, well, we're gonna get flack. That's a teaser. From publicists, because what I learned is that publicists are professional liars.

• 2:42Josh Clark?

  I, I would say that depends on the circumstance.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Well, what do you mean?

• 2:48Josh Clark?

  Well.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  You saying there are publicists who don't lie?

• 2:50Josh Clark?

  No, I'm saying it, it depends on, um, whether the publicist is going to the media or the media is coming to the publicist, depending on the circumstance.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  What I am saying is, no matter what, who you work for,

• 3:06Speaker 02

  if you are a publicist, then a percentage of your job will be lying.

• 3:10Josh Clark?

  Right, okay. Depending on the circumstance.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:13Josh Clark?

  So, so Billy Ray Cyrus.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  You wouldn't lie about something good.

• 3:16Josh Clark?

  Billy Ray Cyrus is like, "I am going to donate a bunch of time and money to a local homeless shelter."

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you don't have to lie about that.

• 3:24Josh Clark?

  The publicist gets on the horn, starts letting everybody know, "You guys should come cover this." Billy Ray Cyrus goes and does that and everything's good. Then, on the way home, Billy Ray Cyrus decides to celebrate by drinking a bucket of tequila and runs his car into a, uh, whatever.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:45Josh Clark?

  The publicist then starts getting calls and says.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  He didn't drink a bucket of tequila.

• 3:51Josh Clark?

  That wasn't even him.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  That's overstated. What really happened with this?

• 3:55Josh Clark?

  So the circumstances depend on the, the, whether the publicist is fibbing or not.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I'm not saying that all publicists do is lie, but I'm saying if you work as a publicist, part of your job is to cover tracks and to lie.

• 4:10Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Um, and, you know, that, don't hate the publicist, hate the system, is what I say.

• 4:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they're definitely a, a part of a larger system.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, a larger system, which includes all of us who digest news.

• 4:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, especially say like entertainment news.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:29Josh Clark?

  That kind of thing. Um, there's like a, there's a whole, there's two, from my understanding, there's two routes a person can take as a celebrity. You can either just go off and be a normal person.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:43Josh Clark?

  And depending on your level, you might have paparazzi following you or that kind of stuff.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 4:48Josh Clark?

  Once you get to a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is. Or you can hire a publicist and feed yourself right into that machine to get as much publicity and as much press as you possibly can.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think any celebrity is gonna have a publicist, but it's really a matter of your directive and your goal.

• 5:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  I think some of those people like to be like that, the old adage, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

• 5:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I, I ran into that, that that's more of a PR term where like, so if you're into PR, you're probably representing a company or an organization or something like that.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:23Josh Clark?

  A publicist is somebody who typically represents a single person, an artist, an author, a musician, um, something like that. That's really the, the only definition I can find for a publicist. And the, the job, the goal of the publicist is to, um, help maintain and promote the public image of that person that they represent.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 5:47Josh Clark?

  By, um, having a good relationship with the media.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Yes, that's where it starts.

• 5:52Josh Clark?

  That's the publicist.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Uh, and by the way, that no pub, no such thing as bad publicity, I tried to find the origin of that. And the closest thing I could find was P T Barnum. But I don't know if that's true. I don't think that's verified.

• 6:05Josh Clark?

  Well, then say Mark Twain.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, P T Barnum or Mark Twain.

• 6:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, everybody says, oh, it was Mark Twain saying.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Uh, and I don't think that's even true anyway. I think maybe that used to be true.

• 6:16Josh Clark?

  What, that it was a Mark Twain thing?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  No, that, uh, no such thing as bad publicity. I think at one point that may have been sort of true.

• 6:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  These days, there's clearly bad publicity.

• 6:26Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Uh, so you said the word flak earlier as a teaser. Apparently, um, two flak or a flak is a term originating from Gene Flack, uh, early movie publicist.

• 6:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Hollywood.

• 6:41Josh Clark?

  And that's with a C K.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 6:43Josh Clark?

  F L A K, to take flak, is named after a type of German gun in World War II, a German anti-aircraft gun.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Two different things. But in this case, it is a pejorative term, uh, for a publicist. Uh, they don't like it.

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  A PR flak.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you shouldn't say that to someone that works in PR.

• 7:01Josh Clark?

  No.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Or call them a liar. They don't like that either.

• 7:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I looked it up. Apparently, it means that like you can't be trusted, you'll, you'll do anything for money. Uh, that's what a flak is to them. That's like, they, uh, one article I read said, that's like calling a personal injury attorney an ambulance chaser.

• 7:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Just not a nice term.

• 7:21Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  So there you have it. Uh, so a publicist, like you said, works for their client to make them, to get their good deeds out and to, if they don't have good deeds, to spin things to make it look like they do.

• 7:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  You know?

• 7:39Josh Clark?

  Here, hold this baby lamb.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:41Josh Clark?

  While we take your picture.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. And then they get photographed later eating gyros down the block.

• 7:47Josh Clark?

  The two events were totally not connected.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  No. So the, uh, what they do is they pitch, uh, ideas to the media and they probably have to be good writers themselves because a press release oftentimes is a starting point, but press releases, as we know, uh, can get lost in the shuffle and never see the light of day.

• 8:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Seems like a huge waste of time.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  It can be, but, uh, if you have a good publicist, um, they will be well-connected to the media.

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  To ensure that that, uh, publicity blast is not lost.

• 8:23Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. So there's, um, there's direction one, which is from the publicist to the media. And the, the publicist is going to have all these contacts with different entertainment reporters and business reporters and anybody that could possibly run a story.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, anybody that could possibly run a story on, um, their client, right? That's right.

• 8:47Josh Clark?

  And they'll say, Billy Ray is going to donate some money.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Why are we picking on him?

• 8:52Josh Clark?

  He just seems like the type who would donate a bunch of money to a homeless shelter.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:56Josh Clark?

  And go down there himself and help out.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Great.

• 8:59Josh Clark?

  So Billy Ray's gonna be down there, plus it's, it rolls off the tongue, Billy Ray.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 9:04Josh Clark?

  So, why don't you send one of your cub reporters down? And, and let's get some coverage for this.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:11Josh Clark?

  And since they're friends, since these people have worked together for decades now, this reporter and this, your, your publicist, the reporter actually might respond.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:21Josh Clark?

  And show up, or the editor, or the news producer, whoever the contact is. That's great, like, that's, you hired a good publicist and now this story's going to make it out there.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:31Josh Clark?

  Because they didn't just write up a press release with a bunch of exclamation points in the headline, and fax it to every media outlet they could find.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  That's a bad publicist. Yes, a good, a publicist is only as good as their relationships, I think.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  The other way on that street that you were talking about is from the journalist back to the publicist, if they hear, "Yeah, I heard Billy Ray Cyrus drank a bucket of tequila." And ran over a prostitute with his car. They will then get in touch with the publicist, and then they go, "Jack, buddy, hey, we go back a long way."

• 10:05Josh Clark?

  Would I lie to you?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Would I lie to you?

• 10:09Speaker 02

  So that's how that goes, and they want, they will be more forthcoming with people who have, it's a scratch your back, you scratch mine type of scenario.

• 10:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like that reporter that actually showed up at the homeless shelter and covered it and made a nice piece and everything.

• 10:24Speaker 02

  I'll give you the scoop.

• 10:25Josh Clark?

  When that guy calls, he's, he's gonna get the better treatment from the publicist than somebody who ignored the, the pitch before.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 10:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's a lot of back scratching.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  A lot of back scratching.

• 10:37Josh Clark?

  Feeding the machine.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  I've seen a lot more women as publicists than men, and I've always wondered why that is true.

• 10:43Josh Clark?

  I don't know that that is true. In researching this, I saw about an equal amount.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 10:48Josh Clark?

  I used to think that as well, but it seems like there's an equal amount these days.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  It seems like every publicist I've ever known has been a woman. And I just figure just because women may be more level-headed and more able to like smooth out a situation

• 11:02Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  than some big dumb guy.

• 11:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  But I guess the guys who are publicists aren't big dumb guys like me. I'd be a bad publicist.

• 11:10Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah? So what would your response be if somebody called to find out what stupid thing your client did? Or why they did some stupid thing?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  I'd say, you know what? It's really none of your business.

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Stop bothering me.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Bad publicist.

• 11:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, that was something I ran across was, you know, saying something like, "My client needs their privacy respected right now."

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 11:33Josh Clark?

  would just immediately shut down a relationship that you've cultivated over the years.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:38Josh Clark?

  That you have to give as a publicist. You are, like, there has to be something that you give. So you better have something that will placate the reporter, but will also is probably not the truth because that reporter will go off and write the truth about your client. And your client will have just gotten horrible publicity because of you. So it's a balancing act.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, or they'll just say, "Let me send you over a gift bag from Fred Segal." You liked the last one, right?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  But publicists may also, and it depends, people that have a staff of people working for them, sometimes the lines are blurred on who does what. But a publicist can arrange interview requests and set all that stuff up. If you have like a book tour, or you're a politician, or you're a band with a new album coming out, they might arrange all those interviews, in which case they are prepping two things. They are prepping the interviewer saying, "You can't ask about the bucket of tequila."

• 12:41Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  "If you want this interview, I'll give it to you, but this is off limits," all these things. And then, as we've learned, when we've had people work with us in publicity, they'll be prepping you on, as the interviewee, like,

• 12:55Speaker 02

  If they ask this, this is how you should probably deal with it.

• 12:58Josh Clark?

  Don't answer that.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:59Josh Clark?

  Bridge back to what you were saying before.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And my favorite thing ever are videos where celebrities walk out of interviews because the interviewer has asked something they weren't supposed to ask.

• 13:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Those are great.

• 13:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  I just sit around and watch those all day.

• 13:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you could probably find a pretty good supercut of them.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably so. All right, well, let's take a break and when we come back, we will talk a little bit about the skills you need as a publicist.

• 13:36Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 13:38Josh Clark?

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• 13:41Speaker 02

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• 13:57Speaker 03

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• 14:05Josh Clark?

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• 14:11Speaker 04

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• 14:17Speaker 02

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• 14:25Speaker 03

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• 14:28Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 14:32Speaker 05

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• 14:38Speaker 02

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• 14:49Josh Clark?

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• 15:25Speaker 02

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• 15:41Josh Clark?

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• 16:17Josh Clark?

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• 16:41Speaker 02

  All right, we've mentioned lying.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  And you know, I joke, but for real, if you want to be a publicist, you better have a certain comfort level with stretching the truth and lying.

• 16:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Because you're gonna have to do that. If you're not comfortable with that, you shouldn't go into that line of work.

• 16:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Is that safe to say?

• 16:59Josh Clark?

  I think very.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  You need to be good with people.

• 17:02Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  And cultivate those relationships. Need to be a good writer.

• 17:06Josh Clark?

  Well, not only do you have to be a good writer, you have to be a good journalist. And a lot of publicists have a background in journalism because, I kept running into this in this article and another article you sent. The number one rule of being a publicist is to think like a journalist.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:25Josh Clark?

  Even better than that is to not only think like a journalist, but be able to write like a journalist, too. Because as we kind of demonstrated, the publicist-media relationship is a two-way street. The publicist needs the media to publicize in a flattering manner their client.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 17:43Josh Clark?

  But the media needs the publicist because they've got deadlines and they need to come up with story ideas. And if something is brought to them.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:51Josh Clark?

  That's great.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 17:53Josh Clark?

  But that media professional has a reputation to protect. It can't be like, you know, Billy Ray Cyrus got off of his couch and mailed a check for $500 to a local homeless shelter.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, boring.

• 18:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it came in a press release in a fax machine.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:09Josh Clark?

  That reporter is not going to have a very good reputation. But if a publicist comes to this reporter with a great headline, creative pitch, a good story that's tailored to that reporter and their beat, and even more than that, tailored to that reporter's audience.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:26Josh Clark?

  There's a good likelihood that reporter will say, "I'm listening."

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:31Josh Clark?

  And that's just music to a publicist's ears.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Sure, just to be listened to.

• 18:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's when you throw it into fifth gear.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  You can't be afraid of rejection. You've got to be outgoing and you've got to take your licks. Because a lot of your attempts are going to fail just by nature of the job. So you can't get your feelings all hurt.

• 18:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  You guess you could, but you don't want to show that. Because then the journalist will be like, geez. Chuck's such a baby.

• 18:55Josh Clark?

  You are going to be eaten alive.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  I didn't run the story and he's complaining.

• 18:59Josh Clark?

  Crying even. I saw him choking up in the bathroom.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  While they may get a good laugh out of that, they probably won't want to work with you as much.

• 19:07Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  You've got to be very patient and you have to be very flexible because if you're working for celebrities, it is a very tough job.

• 19:17Josh Clark?

  That's another thing too. So you are, your hours are basically all hours.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Whenever you're needed.

• 19:24Josh Clark?

  Right. So not only does your, publicists frequently also have to do other stuff, or people associated with the publicist have to do things like pick up things for the, the client.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, like stuff an assistant would do.

• 19:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 19:42Josh Clark?

  In addition to that, like the higher up you go on the food chain, which we'll talk about in a minute, the, the more that, that client feels A-OK with emailing you at three in the morning saying like, I, I need to be reassured about my celebrity status or whatever.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:00Josh Clark?

  And the publicist needs to respond. You're basically on call all the time. Also, at three in the morning, your client may have done something really horrifically stupid.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:09Josh Clark?

  And some paparazzi caught it and now word's starting to spread and you're fielding calls from reporters at three in the morning to get a, a statement on what your client did.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, when, when Twitter came out, I remember thinking at the time, like, publicists aren't going to be around anymore because people are doing this themselves.

• 20:27Josh Clark?

  Well, they've actually figured out ways to use Twitter to their benefit.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Ways to use Twitter, but Twitter is also their biggest security blanket as well because, because of Twitter, more and more celebrities are saying really stupid things that the publicist is then going to have to cover their tracks.

• 20:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  So they'll take down the tweet and then try and spin that or just, you know, the apology is always very funny to me.

• 20:52Josh Clark?

  The awkward?

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Well, it's never like, did you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy? He's a former NFL player, wide receiver.

• 21:00Josh Clark?

  Sure. For the Vikings, right?

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. He, um...

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Is in hot water this week because he spoke, was hired by the NFL to come in and speak to the rookies. They often do that for guys that had been in trouble to come in and say, "Don't do what I did."

• 21:15Josh Clark?

  It scared straight.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, sorta. And he said, in his talk to the rookie symposium, said something about, you know, if you get caught with, you know, da-da-da-da-da, he went, "Just make sure you have a fall guy on your team." Like, the guy in the car that's like, "It's my weed."

• 21:29Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Basically. And he got in big trouble for that. And his apology, his apology was, was like, "That's not the kind of advice I would ever give young people." It's like, "But that's the advice you exactly gave young people."

• 21:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Like, "How can you say that, days later?" It's just so obvious. It's a forced, insincere apology.

• 21:52Josh Clark?

  So he either had a bad publicist, or he didn't listen to his publicist. Because part of the publicist's job is, when you're going to make the statement, the public statement, the public apology, or whatever.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 22:04Josh Clark?

  The reasoning behind it, the rationale, the wording of it, just the logic behind the apology.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:13Josh Clark?

  Is probably going to be crafted by your publicist. At least, they're gonna help you with it.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:19Josh Clark?

  At the very least, they're going to want to help you with it.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:21Josh Clark?

  Because they're probably scared stupid that you're going to make it worse.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Right. And it sounds like there's a lot of crisis management, and that is a part of it. But publicists also are just trying to cook up opportunities.

• 22:34Josh Clark?

  I think that that's way more the day-to-day.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Depending on the client, of course.

• 22:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  But I remember our former boss, Connell, was in a band, years ago. And I read online somewhere that his band was, went to Elton John's, do you remember this story?

• 22:54Josh Clark?

  No.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Went to Elton John's house and spelled out their band name and "Fire" on his tennis court.

• 23:01Josh Clark?

  No, I hadn't heard that.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  To try and get on his label or something.

• 23:03Josh Clark?

  That's a great way to do it.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  I know. And I went and asked him. I was like, "Dude, I can't believe you guys did that." And he went, "We didn't do that." It was like, no, and he was like, no, he's our publicist made that up. It was like, nothing true about it. And he's like, no, they completely fabricated that story. As a publicity stunt that never happened.

• 23:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so why even go to the trouble of it? Where you can just release a story that says that you did that.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, isn't that amazing? When something like that could so easily be fact-checked, like by calling Elton John.

• 23:33Josh Clark?

  Well, that's the other thing.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  He's like, I don't have it in a square.

• 23:35Josh Clark?

  Who's gonna call Elton John, you know?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 23:37Josh Clark?

  So I'm curious, I wonder how many media stories are just totally fabricated? Matter of fact.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  I'd be surprised.

• 23:44Josh Clark?

  You out there in podcast land, let us know if you know a media story that was just totally fabricated that everybody takes as fact.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:51Josh Clark?

  We want to hear it. I love stuff like that.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  I do too. All right, we mentioned earlier that you might end up getting the laundry or dry cleaning as a publicist.

• 24:00Josh Clark?

  If you're the publicist intern.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's probably what's gonna happen, is you might get asked to go get the laundry and then you will say, sure, I'll take care of that for you. And then you will go down the chain until you find the underling who is trying to be a publicist who still does things like that.

• 24:15Josh Clark?

  Right, this person may or may not be in college, but is probably college age. That's something that I ran across. If you want a career in, as a publicist, you do not need to spend a single penny on higher education.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 24:30Josh Clark?

  The entire career of publicists begins as a hands-on experience.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can.

• 24:39Josh Clark?

  You need to be literate, you need to probably have a knack for writing in a journalistic way.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 24:45Josh Clark?

  And crafting good headlines and by proxy, good email subject lines. But you don't, if you have that already before college, you don't need to go to college.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  No, like, you can go and major in journalism or communications or PR, but it's not like you get that diploma, that PR diploma.

• 25:03Josh Clark?

  And you're gonna get like some entry-level job as a publicist. No, you're still gonna have to work your way up.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  See, it says right here, I have a PR degree, so where's my job?

• 25:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  My advice is to skip college and go straight into the workforce.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  As early as you can if this is what you want to do.

• 25:20Josh Clark?

  You know, I feel and I hope that there is becoming a bigger understanding that there are certain fields out there, there are careers out there where you don't have to go to college.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:30Josh Clark?

  And there are careers out there where like you should go to a vocational school to learn that trade.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:36Josh Clark?

  That college is not necessarily this end all be all that you have to spend money after money after money to get a degree that might even not be used in your field. But I mean.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I didn't need a degree to do what I'm doing. No one ever has to see it.

• 25:51Josh Clark?

  Right. And this is a, this is a perfect example of that Chuck. Like to be a publicist, you do not need a degree. You need hands-on experience. You need basically what amounts to an apprenticeship.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 26:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Good way to say it. So go in and get that job in the mailroom or as an assistant or as an intern.

• 26:09Josh Clark?

  And it would be great if you still live at your parents' house at this point because you're going to get paid like next to nothing.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:15Josh Clark?

  And you're going to be doing all the grunt work.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:17Josh Clark?

  But if you are, if you go in there with your mindset to I'm going to learn this, I want to learn this and move up. You're, you're going to be in the right environment for that.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Like we said, you might be picking up dry cleaning. You're going to be returning a lot of phone calls, drafting a lot of probably not so fun press releases.

• 26:39Josh Clark?

  That, that is graduated from the intern.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I'm talking about being like a junior assistant.

• 26:45Josh Clark?

  Right. After you get hired on.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. And press releases that aren't like the sexy ones, you know? You're not going to be writing like the press releases for Billy Ray Cyrus, in other words.

• 26:55Josh Clark?

  No.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Those are sexy.

• 26:57Josh Clark?

  You'll be writing them for his dog.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:01Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Freddie? Freddie Cyrus?

• 27:05Josh Clark?

  Freddie, Freddie Cyrus, yeah.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Okay. You are going to be handling your publicists that you work for, their schedule, their contacts. You're going to be putting together press kits and EPKs, electronic press kits, and blasting those out.

• 27:22Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Basically, all of the nuts and bolts of the job you're going to be doing as a junior staff publicist or an assistant.

• 27:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Not a bad gig, if that's what you want to do?

• 27:36Josh Clark?

  No.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  And if you stick to it and you're good at it, you're going to end up being a publicist.

• 27:41Josh Clark?

  Right. Not only are you getting the experience you need on the job, you're also in a place where you're networking, too. Because that is probably tied for first, as far as thinking like a journalist goes. You need to be a pretty good networker.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  That's right. And you know what? Let's take a break.

• 27:57Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  And we will talk more about networking and some of the skills you still need.

• 28:14Josh Clark?

  Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of VivGart, VivGart is also known as its generic name, Fgartigimod Alpha F Cab, you'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease. Join host Andra Stratton as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection. These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

• 28:59Josh Clark?

  get your podcasts.

• 29:07Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer.

• 29:16Speaker 02

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• 29:29Josh Clark?

  Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.

• 29:45Speaker 02

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• 30:10Josh Clark?

  Hey, everybody. The best pieces in your closet are the ones you can count on, whether you're heading to work or going out or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where you want to shop for yourself and everyone on your list.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  That's right. And you know what? Quince focuses on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold and Italian leather, all timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays.

• 30:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, plus, everything at Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you can give luxury-quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com where you can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK as well. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was stuff you should know. It's the best way to support the show.

• 31:26Josh Clark?

  Joe, can I make a confession?

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  I'm possibly the worst networker on the planet.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  You didn't have to tell me that.

• 31:37Josh Clark?

  I'm really bad at it.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not your bag.

• 31:40Josh Clark?

  It isn't. Some people are good at networking.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  I'm pretty good at it.

• 31:43Josh Clark?

  You're good at networking.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I enjoy it.

• 31:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  And I don't consider it, um, networking sounds like just doing something to serve you in the end. I don't look at it that way. I look at it as like, I enjoy making professional colleague, uh, enjoy meeting and getting to know professional colleagues.

• 32:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  And then later on, if I can hit them up for something, or if they hit me up, that's great. But if not, it's just something I like.

• 32:11Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  You know?

• 32:12Josh Clark?

  So, so, the proper response to somebody when they come and ask you for something, you're like, "Oh, I saw this coming."

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:20Josh Clark?

  That's not the way to respond?

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Probably not.

• 32:23Josh Clark?

  I'm trying to put myself out there a little more.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 32:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Why's that?

• 32:28Josh Clark?

  Just, just, I think that's a skill that everybody should have.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:32Josh Clark?

  Instead of being like a misanthropic recluse. You know?

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Put yourself out there. I agree. Um, well, one of the skills that I don't think we pinpointed was networking without seeming like you're networking, which is sort of

• 32:45Josh Clark?

  That was the key.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  What I was just talking about.

• 32:47Josh Clark?

  And I think maybe that is it, too. Like, I feel like networking is a task, whereas if I just relaxed and enjoyed it and, like, just, you know, communing with a fellow human being.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 33:00Josh Clark?

  Isn't that what it's all about?

• 33:01Speaker 02

  That's all it is? Not so scary?

• 33:03Josh Clark?

  If I just took it like that, then I'm sure it would be much more relaxing.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  I read a blog, and I sent it to you.

• 33:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  And I want to shout them out because they, Sonic Bids, S-O-N-I-C-B-I-D-S.

• 33:20Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  It's a blog where they did an interview that was pretty insightful, actually.

• 33:26Josh Clark?

  Uh, they did a double interview?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  A dual interview with Julie Lichtenstein of 37 Media and Lily Galitely of Galitely Media. And I think they work with bands and musical artists mainly.

• 33:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  But it was super insightful. And they said, um,

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Just some little tidbits here, like I was always curious how they get paid. And I think if you're a publicist for a person and like you are on retainer, then you just get a salary. Or if you're part of a firm that just works with that person.

• 33:58Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  But you can also just be hired for a campaign.

• 34:01Josh Clark?

  Right, so if you're a band and you've gone to the trouble of like going in and hiring a producer to produce your album.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:09Josh Clark?

  And like you've made a studio quality album that you're proud of. You might wanna hit everybody up or gather around another two grand to hire a publicist for a month to release that album correctly.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Not a bad idea.

• 34:22Josh Clark?

  No, and like just hiring a publicist isn't gonna automatically make it great.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 34:27Josh Clark?

  Like you need to say, like can we see some of the other campaigns you've run?

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:31Josh Clark?

  What are your ideas for this campaign? Who have some of your clients been in the past? What are, what's some of the press that you've gotten?

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, what are your successes?

• 34:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you don't wanna just be like, throw a dart at a phone book.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:46Josh Clark?

  Do your research because it's two grand and you're an up and coming band and that's just, that's not chump change. But if you, if you look at it as a wise investment and you do invest it wisely in a good publicist, it could make a huge difference for you.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  This Julie said that they try and get out for, for a major artist, three or four months ahead of the release of the album is when they wanna start their job.

• 35:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  So it's not like, hey, it drops next week, let's think of some good ideas.

• 35:15Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  You know, they want some good lead time. And they said that they like to work around goals.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  If they're, if it's like a tour, like for us, going on our tour.

• 35:27Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  We don't have a publicist.

• 35:29Josh Clark?

  No.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  But we have promoters working with venues.

• 35:33Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  That sort of do the job of a publicist as far as trying to sell tickets.

• 35:37Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  But if you are booking a tour and you have a publicist, they're gonna be the ones that are getting you on the local radio stations, morning TV, getting you in the local newspaper or alternative newspaper to get you some press.

• 35:53Josh Clark?

  Yep. And this is, I mean, if you have, like, this is stuff you can do yourself, but one of the things that you are hiring when you hire a publicist is their contacts.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 36:05Josh Clark?

  Like, you don't have the contacts, you're just the band. One of the problems is you are, it's going to be tough for you to think objectively. Like, you're not gonna understand why every journalist you talk to doesn't wanna automatically do a long-form piece on how great your band is.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:20Josh Clark?

  A publicist is going to be dispassionate enough.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:24Josh Clark?

  And removed enough that they can see it objectively through a journalist's eyes and then pitch it in a way that's probably going to get better, more bites.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good way to put it, because the artists, we've even experienced this, is the ones who gets their feelings hurt, saying like, "Oh, man, you know, they interviewed us last time, why didn't they do it this time?" And they're always great about massaging the ego a little bit and saying like, "It's okay, guys, it's no big deal."

• 36:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  "'Cause that doesn't do much for us, anyway." Lie.

• 36:53Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  "We got this other thing that's better." Lie.

• 36:56Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  The other thing they're gonna be doing, if they work for you, is they're gonna be sending you weekly or bi-weekly reports on what's lined up, who passed on stuff, who bit, stuff like that. Like, they're keeping you informed.

• 37:11Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  You're not just, like, in a black hole. And some artists like to be well in touch on that stuff, and some probably don't care about being bothered.

• 37:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  You know?

• 37:21Josh Clark?

  They just wanna be on Conan.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Man. Conan shot in Atlanta, 15 minutes from our house.

• 37:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Where we live.

• 37:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  And we couldn't get on Conan.

• 37:32Josh Clark?

  I know.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  And it was while our TV show was debuting.

• 37:36Josh Clark?

  I know.

• 37:39Josh Clark?

  You don't have to remind me. Let's talk Penny C. Sancivieri.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, from HuffPo. She is the author and CEO of Marketing Experts, Inc. And she listed out nine things that a good publicist does.

• 37:52Josh Clark?

  What's number one, Chuck? Can you guess?

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Think like a journalist.

• 37:55Josh Clark?

  That's right.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  You already said that, and you were right.

• 37:58Josh Clark?

  It's the number one rule. Number two rule is know the rules.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Right. Got to play within the game. If you start, I mean, you can bend rules, but if you start breaking them, people have a long memory.

• 38:11Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah, if you go on and read, just type the phrase "rules of pitching" and publicity into your favorite search engine, and it will bring up, apparently, one of the journalists, things journalists like to do in their downtime, is write lengthy blog posts mocking PR and publicists who don't follow the rules of pitching. So, one of the rules is, no phone calls. You just don't use the phone.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  All email?

• 38:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, especially if you're cold calling people. Like, I guess if you have a relationship with somebody, you can pick up the phone and call them, but you don't send an email blast and then, a day later, follow up on the email by phone.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  Did you get that email?

• 38:57Josh Clark?

  That's the worst thing you can do.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you don't want to bug people.

• 39:00Josh Clark?

  No, and it's very easy to come off as like pestering a reporter as a publicist.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  I bet.

• 39:07Josh Clark?

  So, you need to know the rules, or your publicist needs to know the rules.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Here's a good one that I didn't think about: reading outside of your market. I'm sure it's pretty easy to just think, New York and LA, like, what else do I need to know about?

• 39:20Josh Clark?

  Well, not even that. It's like, if you're a band...

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Outside of your industry?

• 39:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:25Josh Clark?

  You know, and just start to think of, like, oh, well, we actually sing this song about the oil industry and oil prices are going through the roof, so maybe, maybe the Today Show would want to talk to us about our song.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Didn't think about that.

• 39:39Josh Clark?

  I'd be a great publicist.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Well, you'd be a great songwriter.

• 39:42Josh Clark?

  I'm terrible at networking.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Um, Google Alerts, that's kind of a no-brainer, I would think. Understanding the importance of local media, that's a good one. Because while your artist is not going to be super stoked about appearing on Good Morning Toledo.

• 39:59Josh Clark?

  Hey.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  If there's a tie, like you're from Toledo, like you.

• 40:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Then that's probably a smart thing to do, because the local media loves people that were from there that moved away.

• 40:09Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Or maybe they still live there.

• 40:11Josh Clark?

  Plus, Mrs. Sancivieri makes this point, or Ms. Sancivieri, sorry, makes this point that you never know where a local contact is going to end up.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 40:23Josh Clark?

  Might hit the big time.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  They might work for USA Today in a couple of months.

• 40:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It doesn't get bigger than that. And if they, if they hit the big time on their end, and they have you as like a contact, it could help you out big time.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  That's right. And then earlier, you mentioned something about subject lines for emails. I never really thought about this, but Penny says, can I call her Penny?

• 40:47Josh Clark?

  You can.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Are we on a first-name basis?

• 40:48Josh Clark?

  I call her Ms. Sancivieri.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, she says that crafting a subject line is one of the most important things that you can do as a publicist.

• 40:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  And that they agonize over this. And it makes total sense with the glut of emails that people receive, especially journalists.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  You want to grab their attention. Otherwise, it's just going to be bye-bye time.

• 41:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  So.

• 41:13Josh Clark?

  But you also have to know.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Crafting, redrafting, editing, tweaking, she says it's just like maddening how much you have to do that.

• 41:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that would drive me crazy.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's the minutia, so much importance on the minutia.

• 41:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah. But it's true, and you have to, you have to put a lot of thought into it, but you also probably can't come off as having put too much thought into it, or else it seems desperate, which will turn somebody off.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Man, journalists.

• 41:36Josh Clark?

  I'll bet publicists want to kill journalists and vice versa.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. It sounds like a weird relationship, for sure.

• 41:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  You know?

• 41:44Josh Clark?

  And then also, did you look up media leads?

• 41:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 41:47Josh Clark?

  So basically, there's services out there where journalists say, I need a quote on, I'm doing a piece on nuclear fusion, and I don't even know what that is.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:57Josh Clark?

  So I need a source. And then this, this, this. Service that the journalist calls puts out like a daily or, you know, maybe even more than once a day newsletter blast to PR people who pay for the service and then they go through and say, oh, I've actually got a nuclear physicist on my payroll.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:17Josh Clark?

  And I'm going to connect him.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  We've been connected that way before.

• 42:22Josh Clark?

  How? Who?

• 42:24Speaker 02

  When we had different PR firms working for, with us at times, they've gotten in touch and said so and so at SpaceX wants to know if you want to come on and talk about this or when we did that stuff on ABC about when the housing crisis hit.

• 42:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because we're financial experts.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so stuff like that.

• 42:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I got you.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  It used to come across our desk every now and then.

• 42:46Josh Clark?

  Well, there's, there's subscription services that connect people through leads. From what I'm seeing is Twitter is now filling that void a lot where you can just search Twitter for the hashtag H A R O, help a reporter out.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:01Josh Clark?

  The reporters, and then also I guess there's a lot of PR tastemakers out there.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 43:07Josh Clark?

  That are just super connected and will basically tweet a lead and you don't have to pay a thousand dollars a month for that subscription service. You just follow certain people on Twitter and as a PR person, you might have somebody that's a client that you connect.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, the whole, that whole new job of being an aggregator, a curator.

• 43:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like that, yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Like people do that and that's all they do.

• 43:30Josh Clark?

  But we also live in an age where people are famous for being famous.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  I know.

• 43:36Josh Clark?

  Man.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I need to take back a little bit my tirade about liars. I think that what I'm talking about are people, publicists for like big celebrities and stuff like that.

• 43:48Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Like we've had publicists work with us and I bet 80% of the clients that they work with are like people like us where you don't have to like lie and spin.

• 43:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we're always on our best behavior.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just, you know, regular stuff like let me find a good opportunity for you and connect you and so it's, I was overstating and I think that's just the far edge of the celebrity end of things.

• 44:09Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Because I just got to thinking about what if they're listening? I don't want them to think I didn't think they were doing a good job. They did a great job.

• 44:17Josh Clark?

  Way to back off of that one, Chuck.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  I got one more little thing on Jim Moran, Moran.

• 44:25Josh Clark?

  You just said moron.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  M O R A N.

• 44:28Josh Clark?

  I think Moran.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Well.

• 44:30Josh Clark?

  Not the way the French say moron.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Uh, he is, was known as the master of the publicity stunt, uh, back in the day. Like, he did things, what his big thing was, was to take a saying and try and disprove it, like, for a company. So, he literally went to Alaska on behalf of GE to sell a refrigerator to, uh, well, it says an Eskimo, but I guess an Inuit, is what you would say today.

• 44:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Um, he walked a bull through a china shop in New York City.

• 44:58Josh Clark?

  How'd that go?

• 44:59Speaker 02

  As a stunt. Uh, I think they broke some things.

• 45:01Josh Clark?

  Oh, bet.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  He got on a horse for a politician and changed directions mid-stream on the horse, like, rode it through a river and changed directions.

• 45:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Like, you can do this. Uh, and then in 1959, for the premiere of The Mouse That Roared, the great Peter Sellers movie.

• 45:18Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Uh, he opened an embassy, remember the movie was about a small country that declared war on a big country.

• 45:25Josh Clark?

  Because they wanted to declare war on the US and then surrender and then get financial aid from around the world.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Right, that's right.

• 45:31Josh Clark?

  Because their, their economy was in trouble.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  But they ended up winning or something? I don't remember. Wasn't that it? Uh, he opened an embassy in Washington for a mythical country.

• 45:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, nice. Speaking of, by the way, I finally saw Doctor Strangelove.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 45:43Josh Clark?

  Great movie.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  One of the best.

• 45:45Josh Clark?

  It's up there, for sure.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Oh, man. One of the best satires, let's say.

• 45:49Josh Clark?

  It is a great movie.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Great movie. And Peter Sellers, man, just...

• 45:54Josh Clark?

  He did great, but also, I mean, like, George C. Scott was amazing as well.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  He was amazing, and the guy, I can't remember his name, that played the, uh, the Colonel or whatever.

• 46:02Josh Clark?

  The one who lost his marbles?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he was good.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  He was so good.

• 46:05Josh Clark?

  Everybody was, uh, Slim, Slim Chills or?

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Slim Pickens.

• 46:11Josh Clark?

  Slim Pickens.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Slim Chills.

• 46:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's Chili, Chill Wills was another, like,

• 46:16Speaker 02

  What?

• 46:17Josh Clark?

  country, western actor. Chill Wills, I think, is his name.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Chill Wells?

• 46:22Josh Clark?

  You'd recognize him if you saw his face.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:25Josh Clark?

  Chill Wills. All right. Of course Chill Wills makes an appearance in the How Publicists Works episode. You got anything else?

• 46:33Speaker 02

  No, I got nothing else.

• 46:34Josh Clark?

  Thank goodness. If you want to know more about publicists, you can type this word in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And I said, "Search bar," so it's time for listener mail.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  I did have one more thing.

• 46:47Josh Clark?

  What was it?

• 46:47Speaker 02

  That movie, America's Sweethearts, did you ever see that? With John Cusack and--

• 46:52Josh Clark?

  I know who you're talking about.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Billy Crystal was played a publicist to a pain in the butt Hollywood couple.

• 46:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, best portrayal of a publicist is on Seinfeld. The mom from That 70's Show, remember she played Seinfeld's publicist?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Oh, she was?

• 47:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, she tried to get the airline pilot kicked out of Jerry's show and ended up getting him kicked off. I think it's the one where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia, he's making bets on arrivals and he ends up using the Son of Sam mailbag as collateral.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:25Josh Clark?

  Great episode. But the mom from That 70's Show played Jerry's publicist.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Kitty.

• 47:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  Who was also in Friends.

• 47:33Josh Clark?

  What was she in Friends?

• 47:34Speaker 02

  She played Phoebe's half-brother Giovanni Ribisi, played his girlfriend or wife.

• 47:40Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Which is a weird, like a mismatch couple.

• 47:42Josh Clark?

  That's odd.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  And I think they were-- They got her to be a surrogate for them.

• 47:48Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  When Lisa Kudrow got pregnant in real life, I think that's how they handled it.

• 47:52Josh Clark?

  We have watched a lot of TV.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  All right, I'm gonna call this one, uh-- We Were Actually Right and This Lady Was Nice at a Dinner Party. How's that for a subject line?

• 48:05Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Hey, guys, I have a little story. I was at a small dinner party where the host was making his own sea salt. The topic about, it's one of those dinner parties. The topic of kosher salt came up, so I dropped a fact from your salt episode that kosher salt is actually just salt used for drawing blood out of meat to make it kosher, not salt blessed by a rabbi. And a fellow guest disagreed, to which I responded, "I'm quite sure about this." The host then said, "Raise your hand if you're Jewish." And the guy that disputed me raised his hand, felt rather embarrassed while he explained to me what kosher means and that salt also goes through the same kosher process, though I never explained how. I backed down and didn't try to defend the fact that I'd just told. It's not that I doubted you guys, though I jokingly said I'd write an email to complain,

• 48:52Speaker 02

  but it's because appeal is disrespectful to correct someone on their own heritage. Good move.

• 48:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Also, didn't want to start any petty debate with someone at someone else's dinner party. Also a good move. So I decided to take in the embarrassment while he was explaining what kosher is, and at the same time, eating a plate of pasta with chorizo. Hope you find this amusing. Please keep up the good work. If you're reading on the show, please give a shout out to my friend Amber, who introduced me to the show. And that is from Chloe Sase.

• 49:21Josh Clark?

  So, wait a minute, Chuck. Were we right and the guy was wrong?

• 49:25Speaker 02

  We were right. The Jewish guy was wrong. Because I looked it up today, just to be sure.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  And apparently kosher salt is kosher, because, in fact, they said it should be called koshering salt.

• 49:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  Because it's used to make things kosher. It is not the salt itself that is kosher.

• 49:39Josh Clark?

  It would have kept Chloe out of that kind of situation. Chloe, it sounds like you have a lot of tact and dignity.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:46Josh Clark?

  Congratulations on that.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  It sounds like the other guy's a bit of a blowhard.

• 49:49Josh Clark?

  On not ruining the dinner party.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  So that is from Chloe in Sydney, Australia.

• 49:56Josh Clark?

  Thank you. If you want to get in touch with us, we want to hear about all of your misadventures out there, based on Stuff You Should Know. You can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 50:29Josh Clark?

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• 51:57Speaker 06

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