Chadd Wright: Don’t Give Pain A Voice

Meet Chadd Wright. Reared in the mountains of rural northwest Georgia, Chadd grew up obsessed with becoming a SEAL. But when the Navy discovered a rare but asymptomatic cyst on his heart, he was disqualified from entering BUDS. Undaunted, Chadd refused to give up, ultimately tracking down a surgeon willing to perform a procedure deemed too risky by every cardiologist he previously petitioned. Cyst successfully removed, Chadd went on to realize his SEAL dream, serving over the next decade as a Team Leader on multiple deployments to conflict zones across the world. He became a SEAL instructor. A Master Training Specialist. Chadd even served a stint as President Obama’s bodyguard. Along the way, he battled PTSD and traumatic brain injury. He faced his wife’s substance abuse issues. And he found God -- a faith in part born from a paranormal experience he shares in riveting detail today. Now retired from the military, Chadd has found new life as an elite ultramarathoner -- a spiritual quest for self-knowledge and mind-body mastery that has compelled him to tackle some of the world’s most insane endurance slogs like The Revenant -- a 118-mile footrace across south New Zealand with over 52,000 feet of elevation gain that not one person has ever successfully completed. This conversation begins with Chad's unique upbringing. His SEAL dream. And the heart condition that nearly derailed it. We discuss the day-to-day reality of the elite warrior. The supernatural experience and visions that embolden his faith. And the role Christianity plays in his spiritual equation. We talk about the perils of civilian re-entry. The allure of ultrarunning. His training regimen. The mental strategies deployed to venture beyond his limits. And a project he launched with his brother called 3-of-7. Chadd shares his perspective on the importance of breaking down big goals into bite size chunks. Why some people quit their dreams. Why others don’t. And what exactly separates the two. Finally, we talk about why the “stay hard’ mantra isn’t a sustainable life philosophy. The incredible power of spoken word. Disengaging from negativity. And the importance of channeling our limited energy into that which we love. Chadd's mantra is simple: Never give pain a voice. And never, ever die in the chair. As a hardened warrior turned ultra-athlete, Chadd exudes a familiar energy I'd characterize as Goggins-adjacent. But Chadd is anything but a Goggins stand-in. He's warmer. A bit more inviting. Perhaps it's his personable, laconic southern drawl. Or maybe it's his grounded faith in Christ. If Goggins and Josh LaJaunie had a son, his name just might be Chadd Wright. One thing is for certain -- this guy is extremely authentic. Deeply soulful. And wise well beyond his 31 years. Packed with mindset tactics, powerful takeaways and inspiration for miles, Chadd's tale of toil, perseverance and redemption will leave you riveted. Rethinking the ceiling on your own perceived limits. And prepared to tackle any dream you've set for the new year ahead. You can also watch it all go down on YouTube. I fell in love with this man. And this conversation has stayed with me. I sincerely hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  Don't be afraid to put yourself in adverse situations because that's where you're going to grow as a human being. The decisions you make in times of adversity, self-inflicted or totally out of your control, those decisions define who you are as a human. But don't fear inflicting that adversity on yourself because it's going to help you grow as a human being. Go put yourself through a little adversity. It may be only running for five minutes to start with. It may not be running. It may be something completely different than that. But don't fear it because I feel like it's essential for us as humans to experience that in life. By no means am I trying to sound super tough.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  I subscribe to this saying, "It's be hard when it gets hard." Have a place inside of you that you can go to when it gets hard and you can get the job done. So adversity's a tool, man. That's all it is.

• 2:01Rich Roll?

  That's Chad Wright, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:15Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Happy New Year, people. 2020, it's here. We made it. How are you feeling? I feel good. I'm ready for all of it. Did I mention this is Rich Roll, your host? I'm here. Welcome to the first podcast of 2020. So we sort of have a little bit of a tradition here. It started off two years ago by kicking off the new year with some hard truths, some solid motivation, courtesy of a little-known former Navy SEAL you might have heard of called David Goggins, aka The Hardest Man Alive. And people seem to enjoy that. A little kick in the pants to put your holiday excess in the rearview and calibrate

• 3:00Rich Roll?

  the mind for a new horizon. So continuing on this theme, our first guest for 2020 is a guy born and bred in the backwoods mountains of northwest Georgia who grew up with one dream: to become a Navy SEAL. His name is Chad Wright, and this guy wanted it so badly that when a rare, but totally asymptomatic cyst on his heart basically disqualified him from entering BUDS, it was a growth deemed too risky to remove by most doctors, Chad, this guy, just refused to give up and ultimately tracked down a surgeon

• 3:39Rich Roll?

  willing to perform the procedure. Cyst successfully removed, Chad went on to realize that dream of becoming a Navy SEAL. A decade-plus career that entailed serving as a team leader on multiple deployments to conflict zones across the world. He became a SEAL instructor, a master training specialist, and along the way even served a stint as President Obama's bodyguard. He's battled PTSD and traumatic brain injury. He's faced his wife's substance abuse issues and also found God, in part the result of a paranormal experience he's going to share with us today in quite riveting detail.

• 4:21Rich Roll?

  He's retired now and he's found this new life as an elite ultra marathoner, tackling some of the world's most insane endurance logs like this race called the Revenant in South New Zealand, which is a 118 mile footrace with over 105,000 feet of elevation gain that not one single person has ever successfully completed. It's an incredible story. It's a conversation packed with applicable takeaways and it's coming up right after a few words from our great sponsors that make this show possible.

• 5:02Rich Roll?

  Okay, Chad. So, over the course of the next two hours, you're going to be absolutely glued to Chad's inspirational story and I think armed with some powerful takeaways to deploy along your own path. We talk about his SEAL dream and the heart condition that threatened to derail it, the day-to-day experience of being a member of such an elite squad of soldiers, the role of faith in his life, re-entry into civilian life, what drew him into the world of ultra running, and a project he launched called Three of Seven. We discuss visions and paranormal experiences, which is awesome. We talk about why some people quit and others

• 5:47Rich Roll?

  don't and why, the power of the spoken word and never giving pain a voice, the importance of breaking down big goals into bite-sized chunks, why the stay-hard mantra isn't a sustainable life philosophy, and why Chad will never, ever die in the chair. As fellow SEALs, there's of course a fair amount of Goggins energy in Chad. Both of these guys are hardened, highly-trained warriors turned ultra athletes. But Chad is also very different from David. I think it's fair to say he's a bit more personable and perhaps a little bit more relatable than David. Maybe it's his laconic Southern drawl or his deep faith

• 6:29Rich Roll?

  in Christ that grounds him a little bit more. But one thing is for sure, he is extremely authentic, deeply soulful, and very much wise, well beyond his 31 years. So, this is me having a conversation with Chad Wright.

• 6:48Rich Roll?

  Well, it's a pleasure and an honor to meet you. I'm super excited to talk to you. Our mutual friend Jesse hit me up recently and he's like, "You gotta meet this guy Chad, man." His story's crazy. You're gonna love him. And he was kinda describing you as, he's like, how old are you, like 32?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  31.

• 7:06Rich Roll?

  31. He's like, "He's only like, he's only like 31." But he's like my go-to guy for advice. He's like, "He's my Tuesdays with Maury guy." He's like this incredible ultra athlete and badass Navy SEAL, but he's also sort of this Obi-Wan Kenobi, Kenobi-type character who's deeply wise. And that's like right in my wheelhouse, man. So,

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Well, thank you, Rich.

• 7:29Rich Roll?

  I'm excited to talk to you.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. No, it's a blessing to be here, brother. Thank you.

• 7:34Rich Roll?

  So let's, uh, why don't we start with the whole like Navy SEAL thing, man? You know, it's, it's interesting because you don't, you don't necessarily cut the figure of what somebody would expect.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Never have.

• 7:45Rich Roll?

  I mean, the beard, the beard might be a little bit long. I mean, the beard goes with it, I guess.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:50Rich Roll?

  And more, I guess we're seeing more and more military dudes embracing the ultra, the ultra-running lifestyle.

• 7:58Rich Roll?

  But, uh, I mean, you did the whole deal, man. Buds and the whole thing. And the story leading up to it is, is pretty crazy. Getting what, what, what, what, what you had to endure and, uh, and undergo to kind of achieve your dream. So talk about that a little bit.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I guess I never really fit the mold, Rich, because I was born and raised in North Georgia. I never played sports. Um, I had never swam in a swimming pool.

• 8:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Never ran on purpose.

• 8:29Rich Roll?

  Never, never was in a pool until you were in the military.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Until I went to, yeah, take the, the PST to get a SEAL contract, you know?

• 8:36Rich Roll?

  But your mom is a triathlete, right?

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:38Rich Roll?

  She didn't bring you down to the pool ever?

• 8:40Speaker 01

  No, she, she would bring me out on the trail when I was young, you know, and allow me to hike around and kind of follow her. But water was, I mean, growing up in North Georgia, man, like, you know, We didn't, we, we lived out in the country.

• 8:54Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  So we didn't have a swimming pool close and like the most swimming you would do would be like to swim out across the pond to unhook your fishing lure that was hung on a log.

• 9:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 9:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  So like dog paddle was, was, was my limit.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  So yeah, I, you know, but, but I worked through that. Um, I, you know, when I went to take that physical standards testing, it was a run, swim, push up, pull up, sit up. I failed that thing probably a dozen times dude, but I kept coming back. Every week I would take it and improve a little bit and a little bit. Finally passed with minimum standards and.

• 9:33Rich Roll?

  But where does the, where does the dream to become a SEAL come from?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Well, and I think for everyone is different. For me personally, um, I was, I had just graduated high school. And of course, you know, this small town that I'm, that I was living in, there's not a whole lot of, especially back then, there wasn't a whole lot of economic opportunities there. And I didn't like school. It just wasn't for me.

• 10:00Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  So I went to work in the construction industry. And I was, I did that for a few months and I just had this moment. One day when I'm, I'm, I'm sitting, you know, in this, you know, just environment that I wasn't enjoying and I, I realized that if, if I wanted more out of life, or if I wanted, you know, financially, you know, spiritually and, and you know, everything as a whole package, I was going to have to step out of that environment.

• 10:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  And I realized that if I didn't make that move, that this, that I was surrounded with was just, that was going to be my lot in life.

• 10:47Rich Roll?

  And no like mentors or anybody like that?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  No, no, no really prior military, you know, service in my family. Um, it wasn't about me being a patriot at the time, nothing like that. It was just me wanting more out of life.

• 11:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  You know, I always tell, I'm always hesitant when I tell that story.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Because I don't ever want to sound like I've deserved more or that I'm better than anyone else because there were a lot of guys that I worked alongside in that industry and they were happy with that life.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  And that's awesome, but I wasn't happy with it.

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  You know, at the time.

• 11:33Rich Roll?

  You just had a little bit more ambition.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, just maybe a little more ambition, but you know, I tell people all the time, some of the greatest men that I that I've ever met in my life have wore overalls every day of their lives and worked the fields and they've raised a beautiful family and and they have this really happy wholesome, complete lifestyle. But for me, I just wanted to kind of step out. So that's where the the decision, I guess, was born.

• 12:01Rich Roll?

  But you could have done a lot of different things in the military. Like what was it about SEAL training?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Man, I just saw, I just saw this.

• 12:09Rich Roll?

  Especially since you weren't, it's not like you were a football player.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Dude, I just saw this thing online. I was sitting, like I say, I was looking on on my computer and researching jobs within the military and this thing just pops up, talking about Navy SEALs and I didn't really even know what Navy SEALs did, but it said, this is the hardest military training in the free world. And it was like, for something clicked in my head, like boom, this is, this is what I'm going to go do. And I can't, I can't really explain why it was that one single thing.

• 12:46Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  But, uh, but yeah, from that point forward, that became my mission. That became my entire dream in life is to to get on the start line and at least get a shot, you know, to to reach this goal that I had set for myself.

• 13:03Rich Roll?

  So you sign up for the military, you head off, but it doesn't exactly go to plan.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  No, it didn't quite go as as I planned and. So basically what happened Rich is you have to go through Navy boot camp before you go to SEAL training. While you're in boot camp, they run you through a series of medical evaluations to make sure that your body is physically perfect. They're not going to send you off to this super arduous training unless they know you're good to go. So I make it all the way through boot camp. And the last day, we have our big final training exercise and like, um, that is wrapping up and everybody's heading off to graduation.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  And my drill instructor comes to me and says, Chad, uh, you need to go see medical. They found something that they need to talk to you about. So in that last moment, as, as everybody's going off to, you know, to chase their dream and their goals, I'm walking over to medical as a, I'm just a young kid and thinking, what in the world is this all about? And I walk in to this office and the dive medical officer is standing there. And he says, Chad, um, we found a pericardial cyst on your heart.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  And he said, this is totally asymptomatic. He said, it was never going to bother you your whole life. But we're afraid when you go down to depth, when you're diving as a SEAL, that the pressure change could potentially burst that cyst on your heart. And he said, we can't let you be a SEAL. Yeah. So he basically, all my dreams and aspirations were taken from me. In that one definitive moment, you know, I was, I was given this, this, you know, you can't do this. Right. So how did that feel? It was, it crushed me, man. It, it crushed me.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  But the strange thing is, is that when he, when he told me that, even though this was the guy in charge, telling me that I couldn't do the things that I wanted to do for, I, I never let go of that dream. Yeah. So I, I immediately said to myself,

• 15:36Speaker 01

  I'm going to find some way over, under, around this condition, you know?

• 15:43Rich Roll?

  Even though there's basically, I mean, short of heart surgery, there's no way around this, right? So what do they, what do they, do they just reassign you at that point?

• 15:54Speaker 01

  So they tried, that's what they tried. The Navy tried to just send me out to the fleet, um, which is the big Navy, which is a, a awesome, that's an awesome place to be, but it's not where I had set my goals.

• 16:06Rich Roll?

  So how do you finagle out of that?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  So I reached back to my family. They made some phone calls, um, and I was able to get an administrative discharge from the Navy. It was basically because they had essentially breached the contract that I had with them. Because my contract was to go to SEAL training. So I got out of the Navy. Uh, like I say, I still had, had aspirations to be a SEAL and, and the only avenue, like you said, Rich, was I gotta have heart surgery.

• 16:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  So I start going to all these heart surgeons, Air in Atlanta, and try, and, and every surgeon I went to would, told me the same thing that the dive medical officer told me. This is a rare condition. It's asymptomatic. We're not willing to accept the risk of performing this surgery.

• 17:01Rich Roll?

  Even if you waived all of it?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Even if I waived all of it, they didn't want to touch it, man.

• 17:05Rich Roll?

  Live your whole life with this thing. It's no, it's no problemo.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  They didn't want to touch it, man. So I finally find a surgeon in Atlanta named Dr. Cooper, and he had served in the Army as a, a combat surgeon downrange.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  And he understood what I wanted to go do, I think more so than somebody that hasn't served in that capacity.

• 17:29Rich Roll?

  How many, how many doctors did you go to before him?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I was turned down by three doctors. To the best of my memory, it was three doctors before I finally found Dr. Cooper.

• 17:39Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. And he's like, I'll do it?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  He was like, I'll do it. He was a runner dude. Um, awesome. I mean, I, I remember my first appointment. Like every appointment I had with this dude would be early in the morning and he would be, he would come into the office in his running clothes. Like still sweating. And I'm like, this is, this is my guy right here, man.

• 18:00Rich Roll?

  Dude for you, right?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  That's it, brother.

• 18:01Rich Roll?

  How risky was this procedure?

• 18:04Speaker 01

  You know, and I get asked that a lot, Rich, but back then I was, I was a kid, dude. I wasn't asking these questions. I had a singular focus.

• 18:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I never asked the question, how risky is this? I just, I knew that it had to be done for me to move forward with my, with my dream.

• 18:21Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Um, I think the riskiest part of the surgery is that the condition was so rare. So Dr. Cooper, for instance, is a well-known surgeon in Atlanta. He had never removed a pericardial cyst. So it was a, he, he pretty much, I remember him pretty much telling me, okay, we've got a general plan, but I, we've never done this surgery before. So we're going to have to open you up and we're going to figure it out, you know, when we get in there.

• 18:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  The best way to take this off.

• 18:51Rich Roll?

  Crack your sternum open that way, like open heart?

• 18:53Speaker 01

  They actually detached my pec muscle, moved it up and then went in through my rib cage to, to get to my heart. Yeah.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  Wow. Was there a moment beforehand where you thought like, this is insane?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  There was one distinct moment. And it was, it was actually the morning of the surgery, man. I was riding to the hospital with my dad at like 5:00 AM. And I look over at my dad, I had this moment of doubt and I look over at my dad and I said, Dad, do you think I should really go through with this? And he looked back at me and without stuttering, he says, son, if you want to be a SEAL, you have no choice.

• 19:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  And that resonated with me. That's the way my mind ticks. We'll talk about that. I simplify things. That resonated with me. And I just said, Roger that. That was the truth. I had no other choice.

• 19:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 19:54Rich Roll?

  Fueled perhaps by maybe a little bit of naivete that comes with youth and that sense of, of being impervious and immortal when you're young.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Totally, brother. Totally.

• 20:05Rich Roll?

  So you get through it and then what? You go back and just show up and say, I'm, I'm ready to go now?

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Well, it wasn't that easy. I get through it. The surgery was successful. But it was still a gamble because I still had to get waivers. I still had to get signed off.

• 20:24Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Um, I, you know, the, the Navy had to review the civilian medical documents, you know, from the surgery and basically sign off on it. So this whole time I'm just gambling, man.

• 20:38Rich Roll?

  How long did that take?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  I can tell you, I was back in the Navy, standing before the same dive medical officer that has, that had disqualified me less than a year after surgery.

• 20:51Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  So I walked back in his office, Rich, and he looks at me and he says, "What are you doing back here, man?"

• 21:00Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  He remembered me.

• 21:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Because it was, it was rare, so, so rare. And, and all this is written, this is a public information. If you just Google Navy SEAL paracardial cyst, you can read how rare it was in a medical journal that, that doctor wrote.

• 21:13Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  And so I hand him over the documents and he looks them over and I think that he really respected what I had done, the risk that I had taken.

• 21:28Rich Roll?

  Right. Like this is the kind of crazy we need here.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  That's right. And he understood it.

• 21:32Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  The doctor understood it more than anyone else could have understood because he knew what was involved with, with the surgery.

• 21:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  You know?

• 21:43Rich Roll?

  Well, in the history of SEALs, had anybody else, or you must be the first person to have.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  That was the first one. That was the first case of a paracardial cyst in a SEAL candidate that's ever existed.

• 21:53Rich Roll?

  Until now, people hear this.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, until now.

• 21:57Rich Roll?

  You know, right? Alright, so you're back in. And then what? You just go from there into BUDs? Like, how does it work?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so luckily the Navy blessed me off, gave me the waiver I needed. And they did not make me go through boot camp again. I had got far enough along that they didn't make me go back through that process. So I I'm in a holding pattern for a few months, waiting for the this BUDS class to kind of class up. But yeah, pretty much essentially, I'm I'm right back in and I finally get to toe the line.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  There at my biggest dream and aspiration that I've ever had. And brother, nothing was going to stop me.

• 22:41Rich Roll?

  And there's like, what, like 300 people in a BUDS class?

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Back in those days, yeah. I mean, it was, we were, you know, that was a big influx. That was 2007. The war was going pretty hard.

• 22:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  So we had.

• 22:55Rich Roll?

  All those kids in high school that that were there for 2000 for 9/11 were kind of aging up into that.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So we started with about 300 guys. Yeah.

• 23:07Rich Roll?

  Well, my only frame of reference for wrapping my head around what goes on at BUDS is is David Goggins and the stories that he's told on this podcast and what he wrote in his book. I mean, what was your experience like?

• 23:19Speaker 01

  You know, BUDS is a weird thing, Rich. It's a crazy thing about it is nothing about BUDS. No singular evolution is really all that hard, man.

• 23:32Rich Roll?

  What do you mean by that?

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Like, the time, like the timed evolutions, the perform, the things that you have to do in BUDS is like a four mile timed run. You get like 32 minutes to do that. You've got to swim two miles. You get ample time to do that. So nothing in BUDS is really all that hard.

• 23:52Rich Roll?

  Meaning like in isolation, like each individual task. It's just the accumulation of them.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  The hardest thing is when you when you look at the total picture, it's the grind, man. And that's why. That's why dudes quit. Essentially, I would say that's the number one reason that people quit. It's just like running an ultra. You know how to break an ultra down. Well, Bud's is like that, but magnify it into like a, it's like a six month long ultra.

• 24:19Rich Roll?

  Right, right. So this is kind of part of your core philosophy, right? Like breaking things down into the, their sort of smallest components so that you can digest them one by one.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  I think it's essential, Rich, for me in my life, it's, yeah, it's breaking, not only breaking, say, a race, breaking it down from, you know, a tree to tree, or rock to rock perspective, but even breaking down the, the outcomes. You know, when I, when I go and race, I never feel any pressure and I never really get nervous, man, because in my mind, I've broken that, I've broken that race down into two outcomes. I'm either going to break my body or I'm going to achieve victory or across the finish line. That simplifies it so much for me.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  And is it, is that philosophy advisable? Well, I, I don't know. I think that's a choice for every individual to make, but for me, I look at these races as, as missions, almost like missions in my life, and I'm willing to accept the fact that I could potentially break myself to accomplish this mission.

• 25:39Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, the other option is to quit.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  The other option is to quit.

• 25:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you just don't put that on the table.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  I don't put it on the table, man, and, and I'm not, by no means am I trying to sound, um, super tough, or I subscribe to this saying, it's be hard when it gets hard. And in an ultra, it gets hard, so that's when I like to hunker down.

• 26:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's this ethos out there. I saw you kind of speaking about this on Instagram, um, out there like, stay hard, you gotta be hard 24/7, you know, and I think people in general need a kick in the pants, and that's a worthy message that I think is helpful to a lot of people who have gotten a little too cushy or comfortable in their lives, but staying hard all the time is not a sustainable lifestyle philosophy, is it?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  It's not sustainable, Rich, and, and I really feel like, um, For me personally, it's a dangerous philosophy. Because if you have, if you think as a man or a woman, that you have to be hard all the time. We said it's not sustainable, so you're gonna fall short of that mark. And when you fall short of that mark, you're gonna beat yourself up about it. And it just causes problems, I feel like, for me personally. And it causes problems in relationships, man. You know, when, you know, when I was active duty, you know, I could be out on the road or be on deployment. Well, when, when you come back,

• 27:14Speaker 01

  you gotta be able to, to love your family and, and love the other people around you and, and show compassion and, and emotion. And those are all, those aren't components of being hard all the time, but they're components that are necessary to living a healthy lifestyle.

• 27:31Rich Roll?

  What's the point, otherwise, right? But they're not, they're not teaching that to you in buds.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  No, that's something that I had to learn. Yeah, I mean, they turn you into this, uh, I don't wanna say monster, but they turn you into what I guess society would call an alpha male in buds.

• 27:46Rich Roll?

  Right, right. So stay hard when it's, it's appropriate to be hard, or when, when you need to be hard.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Have a place inside of you that you can, that you can go to when it gets hard and you can get the job done.

• 28:01Rich Roll?

  But couldn't you make an argument that setting yourself up with these two options, either victory or, you know, completely, you know, going until your body breaks down, that, that could be considered an unsustainable model too, right?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  That could be. That, that, that could be, that could be honest. But I'm, but I mean, I'm younger.

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  Pick your moments or pick your battles, I suppose.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  And, and that's why I say is, is that specific philosophy advisable? I think it's a, it's called, um, It's called, you know, risk calculation. You calculate what you're willing to accept to accomplish this mission. For me, I'm willing to accept that.

• 28:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  You know, but everybody's not me.

• 28:43Rich Roll?

  I like this idea of breaking things down into tiny little nuggets to achieve your goals. I think people, you know, this is going to go up in the new year. People are thinking about their new year's resolutions. Everybody set this kind of like aspiration for themselves. And as you know, most people, you know, fall off the wagon and don't end up self-actualizing whatever it is that they're looking to do in their lives. And I think, I think, you know, that message is really important because we get caught up in the sexy idea of what it's going to be like and feel like and look like when we achieve that goal.

• 29:19Rich Roll?

  But we're just not willing to do those little things every day that keep us moving in that trajectory in kind of a relentless way because it's not sexy, because those little things are tiny little things. They're not things that are going to get anybody excited. They're just stuff you gotta do

• 29:37Rich Roll?

  relentlessly to create that kind of momentum that, that, that creates like a self-perpetuating machine.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Totally, brother.

• 29:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  I agree 100%.

• 29:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  You understand it, Rick.

• 29:47Rich Roll?

  Well, all right. So you're in BUDs. Is it what you thought it would be, expected it to be?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Rich Roll?

  Harder, easier?

• 29:54Speaker 01

  I would say SEAL training is probably like the one thing in life that surpassed its reputation.

• 30:01Rich Roll?

  In terms of difficulty?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  In terms of difficulty, for sure. And there again, that's, I'm talking about the whole, the whole picture right now, you know?

• 30:10Rich Roll?

  What is the main thing that you take away from that experience?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  You know, there's so many things that, that we could talk about that were born in that experience. Um, I'd say the one thing that I utilize the most right now is the lessons that we learned that revolve around the, I call it the power of the spoken word. The, the things that we say, how the things that we say impact.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Our direction in life and the outcome of our situations. And one of the earliest times I remember seeing, seeing this work was in first phase, my best friend came to me one day and he said, Chad, I don't think I'm good enough to make it through this training anymore. And, you know, I had known prior to that statement that he had been having some thoughts of doubt. But when he kept those thoughts within his own head, he was able to continue from day to day.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  But as soon as he came to me that, that morning and spoke it out loud, that statement, he, he created that reality, it became real, it crushed him, man. He was crushed by that single statement, I don't think I'm good enough. And it's, and shortly after he made that statement, he went and, and quit. And I thought, you know, this guy, my buddy, you know, he was completely physically capable of, of doing everything that we had to do that day and every single day until graduation. But those words crushed him, man.

• 32:08Rich Roll?

  It was like the Rubicon. Once he, once he crossed that, there's no return. Once you, once you give voice to whatever it is, whatever demon is swimming around in your head, it gives it a, gives it a power that you can't take back.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  There's, there's something about when, it's something about the spoken word, man. And I think the, the written word has, has similar and equal power, but you know, a lot of my stuff, lessons revolve around that spoken word. And now that's transferred, that lesson has transferred into ultra running. And, you know, I've seen that power of the spoken word push people beyond their conceived limits.

• 32:48Rich Roll?

  So give me an example of, of practicing that.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  So I can give you an example of how we practiced it at a race a few months ago. I, we were doing a last man standing race.

• 33:03Rich Roll?

  Right. This is the one with Jesse?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  No, this was one that, I didn't do the one with Jesse. I had done one a few months before. Um, so I became acquainted with a young man named Thomas. Thomas had never ran more than a 10K race before, so it's about six miles. And me and Thomas kind of partnered up and I thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna mentor Thomas. And it starts to get, you know, we'd been, we had made it to like 15 hours.

• 33:37Rich Roll?

  So is it one of those where you do a loop and you get a break and you have to do it in a certain amount of time? You just keep going until no, there's only one person left?

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's 4.16 miles every hour on the hour until one man's left.

• 33:49Rich Roll?

  Is this the race that you created?

• 33:50Speaker 01

  We, we actually hosted a race that was a similar format. Um, but this was one I was actually competing in.

• 33:57Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Um, so Thomas, we, it gets, the, the sun starts to set and I, you know, I look in his eyes and I can tell he's hurting bad, man. He, he's, he's, he's almost done. And I told Thomas, I said, Thomas, I just want, I want you to do something for me, I said. I want you to just say, I will never quit. And Thomas looks over at me and he, he says, I'll never quit. And I'm like, no, man, I want you to yell it out loud. Let everyone around here know that you will never quit. And I think Thomas kind of thought that it was cocky, but it wasn't about being cocky.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  It was about us creating this confidence and this reality for ourselves through the words that we spoke. So Thomas yelled, I will never quit. And then throughout the rest of that night, every time I'd see Thomas, we'd yell back and forth to each other, I'll never quit. Thomas ran over a hundred miles.

• 34:59Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  That day. So from a 10K. He ran over a hundred miles.

• 35:05Rich Roll?

  Do you know what his goal was going into it?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  A hundred miles.

• 35:07Rich Roll?

  Oh, it was to run a hundred miles?

• 35:08Speaker 01

  It was a hundred miles, but you know, we, we had also made a pact with each other that, uh, and, and I had, I had made this for, for myself, but I, I brought Thomas on board that we'll never, that we wouldn't die in the chair during that race, that we would die out on the race course when our time came battling for every step. So on Thomas's last lap, he reached his goal and he said, uh, he's, he's sitting in his chair. He said, brother Chad, he said, I got my hundred miles, man. I'm good. And I said, no, Thomas, we said we're not dying in the chair, brother. So, uh, Thomas,

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Thomas rose up out of the chair, man, out of that.

• 35:54Rich Roll?

  But he did speak those words out loud.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  He, he did.

• 35:57Rich Roll?

  Now you gotta overcome that.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, he overcame it. But, but he had reached his goal essentially. He had every right to, to be there, but he had just had a little, he forgot about don't die in the chair, you know, and I, so Thomas rises up and, uh, and, and comes back out, toes the line again, and he's running with me, um, and basically essentially waiting for my permission to, to end.

• 36:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, we get out about 300 yards from the start line and I say, all right, Thomas, you did it, brother. And, uh,

• 36:28Rich Roll?

  And then he'd do it in the chair.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Start line, man.

• 36:31Rich Roll?

  You could've, you could've withheld that permission and just see, see, you know, how, how much further this guy's gonna go.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  I was so proud of him though, man. It was amazing.

• 36:47Rich Roll?

  So what do you make of that? Like, what is that about? Like, how is it that the spoken word can carry that kind of power?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  It's, you know, and I don't know.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  I don't know what. For me, something in your, a thought that's in your head. It's just a thought. It's, it's not tangible to anyone else except for you. But when you speak something out loud, it, it actually becomes something real, something that can be measured. So it becomes something that's part of this reality that we live in. And, and, and I feel like that's what gives it the pow, the power of the spoken word. I feel like that's why it's so powerful because as a thought, it's, it's essentially, it's not part of this reality that we're living in, but as soon as you speak it,

• 37:46Speaker 01

  it becomes real.

• 37:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  That's where I find the power at, man.

• 37:51Rich Roll?

  So the, the practical application of that, or the practice of it, is to be very measured or judicious in what comes out of your mouth and to be careful that, that, to be mindful of the words that you speak such that whatever is coming out of your mouth is, is, you know, a positive affirmation that underscores the, the goal that you're trying to achieve.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  I think you have to be constant, constantly conscious of it, man. And, and it's, that's something I practice in my own life. And, you know, I, obviously I take it kind of, some people would think to the extreme. You know, I don't curse. That's not a, I'm a Christian, but that's not a Christian thing. It's because none of those words in and of themselves have a positive meaning. So I try to stay constantly

• 38:41Speaker 01

  in control of my rudder. I look, I look at my tongue as my rudder.

• 38:46Rich Roll?

  Do you ever fuck that up?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. I mean, everybody's gonna make mistakes, man, for sure. But, you know, a, a, a big thing, Rich, is to be especially aware of your rudder during times of adversity.

• 39:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  You know, because that's when. That's when it really matters, when you're in the struggle, when you're in the furnace of adversity, that's when you have to be really conscious of the things that you're saying, in my opinion.

• 39:16Rich Roll?

  Back to BUDs, was there ever a breaking moment for you? Or were you just, and was this kind of perspective taught to you? Or you just, this was an intuitive thing that you stumbled upon as a survival mechanism to get through this?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  So it wasn't taught, I think it's been, it was an intuitive thing, but I think that it's also developed now, you know, as I get older and I continue to see it work, and I teach these skills to other people, and then I hear their testimonies, when they come back and say, "Oh, my gosh, you know, I was in this terrible situation, or this terrible moment, and I just spoke life into my situation, and it changed the direction, it changed the outcome." Those things all strengthen my faith in these actual tools that we have.

• 40:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  And in BUDs, there was no breaking point for me, though. There was never a time that I thought about, that I thought about quitting, never a single moment, I never looked toward the bell. And again, that's not because I'm any tougher than anyone else, man, but it's because I had been through a furnace of adversity prior to even toeing the line. So I had quite a bit invested.

• 40:26Rich Roll?

  Right. So you get through that, and then, where, and what was your deployment like? Like, what was the experience of actually being a Navy SEAL?

• 40:35Speaker 01

  So, you know, I did multiple deployments over the course of the 12 years that I was active duty. As far as the experience of being a Navy SEAL, man, it's not as sexy as you would think. It's, I'll tell you, the best part about being a Navy SEAL is you get to go to work with heroes every single day. You get to go to work with these men that are just, you know, have integrity, these men that just will not quit. And you get to be surrounded by those people every day, that was the best part for me, of actually being in the SEAL teams. As far as the day-to-day job, it's a job, man.

• 41:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  You know, you have a mission every day, whether it's training, or, you know, actual mission, and you're a professional, you're an operator, and you get the job done. And it's not, nobody there's doing it for glory, at least. Not, you know, there may be your oddball every now and then that that that's the why they do it, but your real operators are are just there to get a job done. That needs to be done, man.

• 41:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we're in an interesting time now where kind of prior to maybe a decade or so ago, nobody who was a Navy SEAL or a special forces soldier really talked about that experience publicly. But then somebody cracked the seal on that and wrote a book. And then there was, there's been kind of this tremendous amount of interest in what that experience is like. Lots of books, lots of people who have become public speakers, and these things turn into movies and television shows. I don't know how much you're allowed to talk about your actual missions or deployment, but there is kind of a public lens on this

• 42:23Rich Roll?

  life that didn't exist probably when you, you know, when you began all of this. So how do you like, think about that as somebody who is, you know, an alumnus of that experience?

• 42:34Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, Rich, that's a, that's a really interesting question. And I think that the times that we're in, the times we're living in right now, the more complicating life becomes, the more complicating our society becomes, the more we, we have, we're, we're, we have these devices, we have social media, the more complicating life becomes, the more people are hungry for the lessons that we've learned as, as, not only as SEALs, but, you know, in ultra running. I think that's why ultra running is, is making this huge jump

• 43:19Speaker 01

  right now. I think we're, we're living in a time, man, that, that people are hungry for these lessons and for this pure mentality. And, you know,

• 43:32Speaker 01

  I could be just as happy, Rich, if I moved to the mountains of North Georgia and lived in a cabin and never spoke to anyone other than my friends again.

• 43:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  But I feel like I would be doing a disservice to my brothers and sisters. You know, everyone within our community, everyone that listens to this, if I didn't at least come and share with you the things that I've learned and the things that have worked for me.

• 44:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so you consider that a call to service?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's almost, it's like, for me, it's like continued service. It's like I've, this is how I continue my mission, is by sharing the things that I've been given, man.

• 44:18Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, I think we are, you know, in a moment where, you know, we've never seen people as lonely and kind of, you know, mentally discontent as they are. And yet, we're more prosperous than we ever have been before. It's not about like, you know, I can't buy the television. It's about this social contract that we've created that prioritizes comfort and luxury and ease above the things that actually make us happy, which is connection with other humans and experience and living outside of your comfort zone and tackling obstacles and challenges.

• 44:57Rich Roll?

  And also, you know, I think it's sort of not socially acceptable to kind of tell people the hard truth, you know, in polite conversation. And here comes all these Navy SEALs who are like, that's bullshit, man. If you want this, then you're gonna have to do that. Like, they're just, they're not mincing words, they're just telling you what you actually really need to hear if you feel like you're in a rut or you're trying to, you know, kind of...

• 45:26Rich Roll?

  You know, achieve a better life for yourself.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  That's right, Rich. And Rich, there's a lot of days that go by that I never talk about being a SEAL. Like, like, when I, dude, when I come on these podcasts to talk about SEALs, like Navy SEAL stuff, it, there is an aspect of it that makes me uncomfortable.

• 45:45Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 45:45Speaker 01

  To be honest with you.

• 45:46Rich Roll?

  Because why?

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Because we were trained to be silent professionals.

• 45:50Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  And, and that's what we, we are. The whole time we're active duty, you, you, you are a silent professional. And, and now, I think the important thing for me now is to remember the fact that I'm not sharing these things with you because, for, for my own glory, or, or to put myself on a pedestal. I'm sharing these things with you because I love you and I want you to have everything that you want. I want you to be able to achieve your goals, and you may be able to do that without me. But if I can help you in any way, shape, or form, that's my mission, man.

• 46:30Rich Roll?

  I get that. I believe you too. Does it feel a little bit like a betrayal then to talk about it? Given that you were trained to kind of zip it?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  I, I don't, I don't feel like it's a betrayal because here's the thing, Rich. I, we're not, we're not sitting here talking about the missions that we did. We're not sitting here talking about the bad things, um, the, the war and the things that happened there. We're talking about tools that, that we can apply in our day-to-day life.

• 47:02Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  If I was sitting here talking to you about some mission overseas and, and the intricacy and the details of that, that would be a betrayal. But we're not talking about tactics, man.

• 47:14Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  I'm not telling you anything right now that an enemy could listen to at some day and how, and, and get an advantage over the guys that are still in the fight right now. Do you understand that?

• 47:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I get that completely.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  So I don't feel, you know, that's why I don't feel like I'm betraying.

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Anyone, you know?

• 47:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I get it. So, other than die in the chair, don't die in the chair and, uh, you know, break things down into what's, you know, immediately in front of you to do. Like, what are the other, and, and the spoken word thing, like, what are the other, like, big lessons that you want people to understand?

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Um, I'd say another essential message that people might take the wrong way. I use this now in ultra running and we used it back, you know, in training is don't give a voice to your pain or suffer in silence. That was a mantra we had in the teams and that is not, that is not at all related to mental or emotional pain. I'm talking about physical pain that you feel during times of self-inflicted adversity. Uh huh. And it's helped me tremendously in ultra running. You know, when you're deep into a race, man, and, and everything hurts and you look over at your buddy and when you

• 48:35Speaker 01

  look over at your buddy, remember that your buddy feels the same pain that you're feeling. Uh huh. So what use, what's, what service are you doing to him or to yourself if you say, gosh, man, this hurts so bad. Like he already knows it hurts, man. And that was how we operated, you know, going through buds. You never looked at, you looked over at your buddy and you said, man, that guy's just as cold as I am. There's no reason for me to talk about how cold I am right now. Right. So it, it kind of where, you know, an example of how we, I, I utilized it in ultra running or seen at work was, uh, I did a race last May called Cruel Jewel. It was

• 49:18Speaker 01

  a 106 miler in North Georgia, had 33,000 feet of elevation gain and loss. So super difficult course. And this was actually my first 100 miler. It was, it was two years ago, actually. And so I'm running this race. I'm doing good up into about mile 70 and I tore my hamstring, um, right down here where it connects to the back of my knee. And man, you want to talk about hurting, brother. It hurt something terrible and it's got swollen up and red and, but I didn't, so I still had 30 miles left. I never said a word to anyone about

• 49:58Speaker 01

  it. Never told an aid station worker, never told my crew, like, oh my gosh, I tore my hamstring. It hurts like crazy. So I can't carry on through this race and I'm still able to make ground and I hadn't gave a voice to that pain. Until I had five miles left, I came to the last aid station and I lost control of my rudder, man. And I told the aid station worker how bad my hamstring had been hurting for the last four or five hours. And when I gave a voice to that physical pain that I was feeling,

• 50:37Speaker 01

  there again, it gave power to that, that pain and that injury. And it almost took control of me from a mental standpoint, when I gave it a voice and I had like five miles left, it took me three hours to cover that last five miles, man. So it crushed me.

• 50:56Rich Roll?

  Well, so you finished?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  I finished. I finished.

• 50:59Rich Roll?

  There is an argument that maybe that wasn't the wisest thing to do, right? Like, there's a difference between physical pain and the pain that emanates from like damaging yourself in a, in a really bad way. Like if you ripped your hamstring, like, I don't think anybody would, first of all, no one would give a shit if you stopped. And it might have, like, if you had finished that race with that torn hamstring, and then you were out for like a year because you just screwed yourself up so badly.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  There again, it's, it's, it's, it's operational risk management. It's your decision, man. Yeah, I didn't care what anybody else thought. This is, all these, this is all, these missions are mine, dude. You know what I mean?

• 51:44Rich Roll?

  I got it. All right. So, uh, so how long were you a SEAL for then?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  12 years. Yeah. Yeah. I actually just got out this past January.

• 51:52Rich Roll?

  Right, right. Um, one of the things Jesse told me that you did is you, you were, you like body guarded for, for Obama. Can you talk about that? Or is that like off the record?

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I worked, I worked with, with Mr. Obama a few times.

• 52:06Rich Roll?

  Did you?

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. It was a good time.

• 52:08Rich Roll?

  That must've been cool.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, I enjoyed it. Yeah. He's a good dude. Um, enjoyed spending time with him. It was a cool experience for sure.

• 52:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  So just one of many though, man.

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  Spoken like a SEAL. Like I could tell you don't want to talk too much about this. That's okay.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Totally, man.

• 52:24Rich Roll?

  So 12 years, and then you get kind of what's the equivalent of like a, an honorable discharge, right? Like you had some injuries as a result, like there's a, there's a brain injury involved and, and I think some PTSD. Could you talk about that a little bit?

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was more, it was multiple, you know, just, just kind of. It was kind of looking at the whole picture of me and then especially looking at the brain injury stuff. I was a breacher, which means we we deal with explosives. We're like the explosives expert within the platoon.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  And I had been exposed to, you know, multiple, no telling how many blasts. And I noticed that it was affecting me in different ways, both mentally and physically. And finally, I had to go and talk to a doctor about it. You know, it was just, it became, it was impacting my performance.

• 53:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  You know, out in the field. And they basically said, yeah, this is what's going on. You don't need to be exposed to this anymore. Because we risk really diminishing your quality of life if we continue to expose you to this. And I was medically retired.

• 53:41Rich Roll?

  Got it. So basically, exposure to ordinance blasts.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:47Rich Roll?

  Over however long period of time, like time and time again, like the repetitive nature of that, being exposed to that.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That was essentially the big one. And then, of course, you know, you have joint injuries. They look at the whole picture when they start thinking about the medical retirement.

• 54:03Rich Roll?

  Right. So, so when you're now faced with having to return to civilian life, like that, is that hard?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's tough, Rich. And I think the toughest thing about it, man, is when you, it's the same as a professional athlete or a musician or when you have your entire identity wrapped around this one thing. When, when you lose that one thing, whether it's a professional athlete, a SEAL, a musician, whatever. It can be, it can be a crushing blow.

• 54:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  So, you know, I was blessed in a way that I had found ultra running. That helped me diversify my identity. It helped me.

• 55:00Rich Roll?

  You found that when you were a SEAL?

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Uh, about a year before. So when they started talking about the whole medical retirement thing, I started ultra running because that was a really stressful time for me, man. I don't like going to the doctor. I was going to the doctor like three times a day and it was driving me crazy. So I started ultra running.

• 55:22Rich Roll?

  Right off the bat or just like, I'm gonna run, like, most people start running, you know, I'm gonna go run around the base or something like that. Like, they're not like, I'm gonna be an ultra runner. Was it, was it that baked in from the beginning? Like, I'm gonna do ultras?

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I never, I mean, I had never ran a marathon, um, any, I've never ran a 10K. I just, I signed up for a 50 mile race.

• 55:45Rich Roll?

  The first race he signed up for?

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, the first race. It was the Iron Mountain Ultra Marathon in Damascus, Virginia. So yeah, I signed up for that race and went out there and it completely obliterated me. But I, I saw the community there. Like, I really loved the community, like that grassroots feel. It was, it's almost like family, dude. Like, when I'm out on the trail, I'm calling guys like brother, sister and, and because I legitimately view them as my brother or sister. It's like family. I loved it and I loved how that event crushed me. It like broke down

• 56:28Speaker 01

  all these barriers that we have built up, you know, between each other. Man, when you're out there and you just crush yourself, all these barriers just crumble. And like, an ultra is the one place that I can truly like.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Let my emotions just flow, man. I can cry if I want to cry. I can laugh. I can get angry. It doesn't matter. Those and that was something that as a, as an operator, you didn't really show emotion. You were kind of trained that way not to show emotion. So.

• 57:04Rich Roll?

  You have this opportunity to express that in a different way.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it almost it makes it. It brings you back to like a pure form of, of humanity.

• 57:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's almost like that's what you needed in order to be integrated once again. And you found a way to figure that out through this vehicle of running.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  That's it. Yeah. So, but yeah, it was still, it was still. When I finally was separated from the Navy, it was still tough, man, because I was still in a sense. When I got out of the Navy, I was still trying to like hang on to all those things that I had done as a SEAL. And I was trying to depend upon those things to like move me forward into the, into my future life.

• 58:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Um, but I had a vision one night, man, and I was able to, to let go of all that old stuff because a ship doesn't sail on yesterday's wind, right? And it, and, and when I, when I had that vision and I was able to let go, it allowed me to then propel myself into the life I'm living now.

• 58:25Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, if you think we're just going to blow by the fact that you have this vision without me asking you about it, you're insane. So tell me about this vision.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. I'll tell you about it. And I, I, this is probably the first time I've talked about this publicly, but I'm lay, so I'm, I'm in that place where like we talked about, I'm depending on, I'm hanging on to all this old stuff, thinking that this is going to move me forward in life from a career standpoint, from a, a social standpoint, you know, still kind of hanging on to that identity. And I'm laying in bed one night and I'm just frustrated, Rich, and.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  In my mind's eye, as I'm laying in bed, I'm awake, and I see a scroll

• 59:17Speaker 01

  appear in front of me, in the center of my vision. And on that scroll was written everything that I was hanging on to. It was like a resume, essentially. And as I'm looking at this scroll, I'm like, what in the world? Like an ancient, like an ancient papyrus scroll or something? Totally, man. Yeah, it was like an old scroll. And so I'm reading, okay, this is basically my resume, all this cool stuff I've done. So around that scroll, these clouds, dark clouds, started to build. And as those clouds were building, that scroll began to shrink.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Well, what those clouds, it came to me in that moment, those clouds represented the presence of my God.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  And as the presence of God built around this scroll, it shrunk and it continued to shrink, and the presence of God continued to build. And the scroll got so tiny that I could no longer read the words written on the scroll.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  So what do you make of it? I have some ideas, but like, tell me how you interpreted that. So how I interpreted that was, my God was telling me in that moment that, Chad, I can do so much more than what you have done. But you've got to let go of these things that you're hanging on to. If you want to let me work within your life and propel you forward into into your new mission, you've got to let go of these. And when I had that revelation, when that was revealed to me, the message of that vision,

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  I no longer looked at that scroll as a resume. I looked at it as a tomb. They were actually things that I thought. You know, I could, that could propel me forward, but they were actually things that in reality were going to hold me back. So I gave it all, I, I, I was able in that moment, when I, when I, when I figured out the message here, I was able to let it all go, go and move forward now into my future with just this clean and, and pure, you know, perspective.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  And just, just let go and, and I'm, I'm also able now to really see the design within my life. Things that are orchestrated, obviously by something larger than me.

• 1:02:14Rich Roll?

  More powerful than you.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  More powerful than me. But you know, I couldn't see that before, man, because I was depending upon myself for everything.

• 1:02:22Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, that's a beautiful spiritual experience. You know, what I, what I see in that is somebody who was holding on very tightly to this story, this identity, who you, who you tell yourself you are and like kind of hanging your ego on these pegs, based on these experiences that you've had. And the journey forward to wholeness, to this next chapter, was to surrender all of that, to like lay it down at the feet of God, right?

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Come on, man.

• 1:02:54Rich Roll?

  Basically, basically to set aside your ego and just be open to possibilities and kind of wipe that chalkboard clean.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:03:04Rich Roll?

  That's a hard thing to do.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:03:07Rich Roll?

  You know, I mean, these, like, when I was in rehab, I kind of had, I had my own version of that, like learning how to, you know, really surrender. And I think for somebody who is... A type A personality, or somebody who like, look, clearly you had this dream of becoming a SEAL and nothing was going to get in the way of that. And the only person that was going to make it happen was you. So you're, you were somebody who was kind of crafted, you know, sort of born out of this willfulness, like self-will, right? And I'm sure you have a million things that you can point to in your memory and experiences to say, I would have died had I not done that, or I took care of that, and it's all me, me, me. But

• 1:03:47Rich Roll?

  in order to broaden your life experience, ultimately, you have to realize the limitations of self-will. And that really, in reality, self-will is your biggest limiter. But that's something that's very difficult to let go of for somebody who is accomplished, or somebody who, you know, knows how to set a goal and achieve it.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And it was essential for me to, to be able to let, I'm not saying, you know, I had to, I, it was essential in that moment because I had, you know, that part of my identity had ended and I had to move forward, you know?

• 1:04:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  But you hit the nail on the head, Rich. I mean, that, that is the

• 1:04:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  The perfect interpretation of that vision. You so, you speak it so much more eloquently than I do, brother.

• 1:04:30Rich Roll?

  I like your version.

• 1:04:39Rich Roll?

  I want to talk about your faith more because I think it's super interesting. I mean, you, first of all, you have this wild story, you know, one of the catalysts that brought you into your spiritual perspective. Can you share that? You know what I'm talking about?

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, man. So, yeah.

• 1:04:56Rich Roll?

  I mean, you weren't, you, you weren't born and bred, you know, reading the Bible every day, right? Like, this is a, this is a newer thing.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  It is, Rich. And, and I, you know, I'll talk to you about my faith. But I want to preface it with this. By no means am I telling anyone what they should do. All I can do is tell you what has worked for me and why. I can tell you the stories of why I believe how I believe. Uh huh. That's all there is to it, brother. I appreciate it. Um, so yeah, when I essentially, and I'll, I'll use some, some Jesus talk now. Okay. When I, when I had my come to Jesus moment was actually while I was overseas and I had no, you know, spiritual spirituality that was just wasn't a part of my life, man. Had no connection to, to a God.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Didn't grow up with it in the house. You know, it was, it was, I, I have to say it was on and off as we were coming up as children. But you know, I, at that point I had branched off and I was living my own life, man. You know, I, I had me personally, I had no personal relationship to a God. Yeah. Um, so we're staying in this place overseas and one, it was only, uh, there was four of us. One of the four guys was a Christian. And we're staying in this building and the one that was a Christian, he started reading his Bible every evening.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Well, it sounds crazy, bro. But when he started doing that, these weird things started happening within this place we were staying. Uh huh. And they were, I call them now, it was, it was really an evil thing. So the things that were happening were causing fear and discontent and discomfort within our group. So he starts reading his Bible. He obviously aggravates this. Spiritual presence, this other spiritual presence that is dwelling in this place.

• 1:07:10Rich Roll?

  Right, you're talking about paranormal.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Paranormal activity. So, yeah, I remember the first thing, like, uh, laying in bed one night and something hits my door and I hear like singing up and down the hallways of this place where we were staying and I get up and everybody's passed out and it, it may, it scared me.

• 1:07:31Rich Roll?

  What kind of singing?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Um, it, it would didn't, I don't remember it as sound, it was not words, it was more just like tones, tones flowing up and down the hallway and it didn't have an evil sound to it, but the event had fear attached to it.

• 1:07:50Rich Roll?

  Right. And you're in some kind of, not like a house, but like a built, you're on a mission, basically, right?

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we're, yeah, we're on, we're on deployment and, and so as, as the days progress, these, this paranormal activity continues to happen and also our moods as like, as, as teammates, this spiritual presence was bearing down on our moods and, and it got to the point where it was affecting our interactions with each other and, you know, the way we felt about each other and just really just getting us in a rut, man.

• 1:08:31Rich Roll?

  So you're not the only one who's experiencing this?

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  So eventually, after, you know, after a week or so, you, you got four Navy SEALs sleeping in the same room together because they're, uh, they're freaked out about what's going on.

• 1:08:45Rich Roll?

  Right, like these super badasses now all have left their respective rooms and you're all sleeping in the same room.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  That's it, my man.

• 1:08:51Rich Roll?

  So, all right, hold on a second. So what was that like the first time? Like, when this happens to you, you must think either I'm imagining something or, or I'm the only one who's having this experience, right? So. At some point, you, you have to, somebody, you, you have to have a conversation with someone else. Like, hey, I heard this thing. Did you hear it too?

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Rich Roll?

  Like, how did that go?

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, man. Dude, we're, I mean, we were so close. I mean, it was like, you know, we-

• 1:09:20Rich Roll?

  Did you hear that?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Hey, what, what hap- so what happened in your room last night? And we, you know, we would, we, we would talk about these things. Um, and it wasn't necessarily at night. I mean, this place, you could walk into this. It got to a point where you could walk into this place. And like, I remember there was a stairwell. And like, the stairwell went up and then it cut back. So as I was walking up the first portion of the stairwell, I could feel a presence of something up in behind me, watching me and bearing down on me as I enter this place. And, and when I would make that turn, I would fully expect to see something evil standing there, but it never did.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  So, so we're talking about it, man. And, and it's obvious that, that this crazy stuff is going on. And it's obviously, it was obviously initiated by the, the, the spiritual side of our one teammate that, that had that as a part of his life.

• 1:10:24Rich Roll?

  Right. He, he opened up this Pandora's box of evil spirits raining down upon you.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  This, this sounds so crazy, but I'm telling you, bro, it's so real. So-

• 1:10:34Rich Roll?

  I dig it. I'm into it.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  We're in this like crazy battle of, of good and evil. And finally, I get sick of it, dude. And, um, I call my brother back home in the States. And I knew that my brother was a Christian. He had made that decision long ago. And I knew about that. And I said, look, Blake, I don't know what's going on here, man. But I, I'm tired of this. I can't rest. We can't work together as teammates. It's, this is just getting out of hand. Do you, do you have any advice? What can we do here? Because I'm sick of it. And he, he said, well, let me put you in touch with my pastor. He puts me in touch with the pastor of his local church there.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  That gentleman calls me back overseas and says, hey, I got an idea of what's going on here. Will you put me on speakerphone and, and allow me to wa- walk around this-

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Building, will you allow me to pray over this space?

• 1:11:36Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Essentially, he's gonna perform an exorcism, right?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Okay, man.

• 1:11:40Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Totally, so I'm like, I actually, when this went down, I waited for everyone else to leave because I thought that even though every, this was so real to all of us, like, I'm taking it one, like, a step too far, man.

• 1:11:55Rich Roll?

  And you're like all of two days into Bible study at this point, right?

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  That's it, man, yeah. So, I walk around this building with this, this guy that I don't know, never met before, praying over this area. And then he says, "Hey, go get some olive oil, and we're gonna, I'm gonna, we're gonna anoint the door."

• 1:12:16Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  And I'm like, "Alright, bro. Come on, man. Get some olive oil, pour it in a little cup." He continues to pray, and I just take my finger and anoint the door

• 1:12:27Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Of the place we were staying in.

• 1:12:30Rich Roll?

  Like, the outside door?

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  The outside door, and also the door to the room that we were staying in, yeah. And so, after I did this, man, complete and total peace returned to this place and to our mood, our, our relationships within our team. It was like, it was like, I can breathe again.

• 1:12:55Rich Roll?

  That's bananas.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  And, uh, and so, it blew me away, and I was like, "Okay, there is some power here. Uh, maybe I should look into this because of this experience that, that I just had. It was so real." So, I went out and bought me a Bible, and, and I start digging into the teachings of this guy named Jesus, and throughout the rest of that deployment, there were things that happened that really set my faith into concrete.

• 1:13:38Rich Roll?

  Give me an example of that.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Um, I'll give you one single example. Um, we were out playing one day and we were in this waterway that was filled with trash and dead bodies. And I was water skiing on a spineboard for fun. And um, I fell off and fell into this water with, literally with decaying human beings around me. It's just the, the terribleness of the place that we were in. And I get a gut full of this water. And I get up back up on our vessel and uh, I shouldn't have been doing what I was doing in the first place. Right.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  But um, our medic starts freaking out. He's like, dude, this is bad. Like this, this is not good. Um, and I had remembered, I had been studying the Bible for about a month prior to this event. And I remembered when the Bible, the Bible said, if, you know, if um, if you'll speak my words out loud, if you'll, if you'll, if you'll remember this scripture and, and use it, it's, it'll, it'll work for you. That's essentially, you know, a simple message of the Bible. And I had remembered a scripture that said, um, no pestilence or plague shall come near unto me. And I spoke, when, when my, you know, when, when this happened, I told my group, I said, I'm good, bro. No pestilence or plague shall come near

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  unto me. And I used that scripture in front of a group of unbelievers. And I was totally fine. Um, from that point forward, never, never had any, any sickness or issues. Now that could potentially be coincidence. Um, but you know, that's just one example. Um, and so these things continue to happen throughout deployment. And I get home and uh, my wife was dying um, from a disease called addiction. And I had this newfound faith.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  And I, I started to learn about addiction, obviously, because I was about to lose her. But I realized that there was nothing that I could say to change her mind. So all I did was, I was using this new tool that I had now called prayer. And I prayed, I would march circles around my house, pray over the place in bed where she slept. And after about a month of that, she came to me one day and she said, hey, I want to get clean. Like, there was no reason for it. I wasn't having this discussion with her about, hey, you need to get clean. You need to get in rehab.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  I knew how helpless I was, so I just shut my mouth, man. And so there again, I, I take that as my, my prayers.

• 1:16:40Rich Roll?

  An affirmation of your.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  An affirmation of, of the prayers that, you know, that I had said. And, you know, of course, there's going to be 10,000 people listen to this and just say, that's all coincidence.

• 1:16:51Rich Roll?

  It doesn't matter. This is your experience.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's just my experience, man. And that's, that's what I'm saying. All I can tell you is the design that I've seen within my life. And then, you know, so, so that event in and of itself, you know, was, was another thing that really just, just set my faith in concrete and made me say, well, oh my gosh, you know, here, here is this loving God that has actually honored my prayers because I have, I have chose to serve Him.

• 1:17:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:17:22Rich Roll?

  I'm sorry to hear about your wife. So you come back after deployment and she's struggling with this thing. I mean, that's a very, you know, powerless place to find yourself.

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, but it, but it was.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  There again, Rich. I mean, it's one of those things that,

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  first of all, I didn't know anything about addiction and I always looked down on addicts. But walking through this, when I, when I was, when I walked, as I walked through this with my wife, I realized that addicts are some of the best people on earth if they can just get clean. So it changed my whole perspective on addiction. So thankful for that, man. When I see somebody struggling with that drug addiction or alcohol, never do I look down upon them because I know they're just bound up with these chains, man. And if they can break these chains, they're gonna be some of the best people on earth.

• 1:18:24Rich Roll?

  Sometimes.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Most of the time, brother.

• 1:18:28Rich Roll?

  I would second that.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Rich Roll?

  You know, I think, I think there's a lot of people that, that suffer from addiction and alcoholism that are in a certain respect, spiritual seekers. They're just seeking their answers in an unhealthy way and they fall prey to this thing that becomes very difficult to, you know, claw out of. But when you, and, and I believe strongly that this, that, that a huge part of the solution

• 1:18:56Rich Roll?

  is spiritual, like you have to find a spiritual connection. You have to, you have to weather a version of what you experienced with the scroll, right? Like you have to surrender yourself. You have to understand that there's a power greater than yourself that you can avail yourself of to help you confront this thing. And it's about relinquishing the ego and, and self-will. That's a big part of it, I think. So she's okay now, though?

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah. She's, she's doing awesome. And I'll tell you, Rich, it's, there again, you know, we, we went through that, that furnace of adversity together within, you know, as a, as a, as a married couple. And of course, her, her portion of that was a lot more painful than my, my portion all, my pain came just through watching the pain that she was going through. I can only tell my side of that, of that journey.

• 1:19:54Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  But, but you know, we went through that together, Rich, and. We came out the other end, brother, and we got the best marriage on earth. Like, she's my best friend i- in the world and everything is just wonderful. But it's because we can really appreciate the time that we have together now.

• 1:20:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  So adversity's a tool, man.

• 1:20:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  That's all it is.

• 1:20:19Rich Roll?

  Well, one of the things that you've talked about that, that I love and I agree with completely is this idea that the intensity of adversity tends to ratchet up or increase the closer you get to accomplishing the goal, right? It's almost like, you know, the closer that you got to becoming a SEAL, you got thrown this thing that seemed like it was an impossible obstacle that you had to overcome. Or the closer you get to the finish line of an ultra, that's when, you know, it becomes the hardest.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:51Rich Roll?

  And I look at that and I see it getting played out time and time again, and no matter what people are trying to accomplish or achieve. Um, and it's, I, I, I think of it as like a spiritual test, like, okay, this is the thing that you want, we're gonna work towards that, but before, before I let you have it, let's just make sure that you're actually ready for it, you know?

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Well, not only is it a test, but it's the laws of nature.

• 1:21:17Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Did you know, Rich, that we can look at these things around us, this, this nature that we live in, and that you can take principles from nature and see the application in life? So what you just said, did you know that this is a fact? That the darkest and coldest part of every single night is right before the dawn breaks?

• 1:21:50Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  That is the darkest and coldest part of, of a night. And you know that from ultra running, man.

• 1:21:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  Man, when you get to those hours that are like three, four, five, and right there before the dawn is about to break, oh my gosh, it is, if it's winter time race, you know, that's the coldest part of the night, man.

• 1:22:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  And so that's a law of nature.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  And it's, it, all that stuff transfers into, into life, in my opinion. I look, look at the lessons in, within nature and see the parallels in life.

• 1:22:26Rich Roll?

  Right. So what is the relationship between your faith and ultra running? Like, what does that interplay look like for you?

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  I think a big part of, uh, talk about faith, faith in and of itself, Rich, is all, all that word means to me is that I believe in something bigger than myself that I can't see or put my hands on. I, I think the, the, the better question that I might could answer is how does ultra running help me from a spiritual, physical, and emotional aspect? Those, so from a body, soul, spirit aspect. So I don't feel like ultra running in any way impacts my faith. It doesn't, it doesn't make me believe any more or less in a God,

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  but it does help me from a body, soul, spirit standpoint, which then in turn brings me closer to God, but doesn't necessarily, and it allows me to listen to Him and be in tune with Him more so than I could without ultra running, you know?

• 1:23:33Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  So ultra running, Rich, essentially, when you're, when you're ultra running, it is a body and soul exercise. And it, for a lot of people, it's also a spiritual thing. But when you're ultra running, you are mastering, you're bringing your flesh into subjection. You're making your flesh, your body, do what you want it to do. So you're training the body, you're making it stronger, you're, you're building that discipline. And from a soul perspective, the soul being the mind, will, and emotions. That's what, that's what our soul is. It's, it's what do we want to do or not want to do? How do we feel about

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  a certain activity? You're disciplining your mind, will, and emotions, and you're bringing those, the aspects of your soul, also into subjection. And then from a spiritual standpoint, for me, just being in nature, what I would call God's creation, is how it nurtures me from a spiritual standpoint. All these trees and plants and stuff, man, all this stuff's alive.

• 1:24:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  It's all alive, man.

• 1:24:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, I love that. That was beautifully put.

• 1:24:52Rich Roll?

  I would imagine that you didn't expect to have that kind of broad perspective when you signed up for that first 50 miler, right? Like, how did you come into this love affair with this sport?

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  Well, there again, for me, Rich, it was that first one, it was

• 1:25:13Rich Roll?

  That was it.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  That was it. It was that it just, it just broke me down. It broke these walls down. It, you know, it was, it was that body, soul, spirit type thing. And I was able to identify how, how ultra running was helping me master, nourish and maintain those three aspects of, of me as a human, you know, and after, and also the community. I loved the community. That was another big one, man.

• 1:25:39Rich Roll?

  Well, I would imagine a big part of, of having to kind of weather the transition into civilian life is, is that you, is that you don't have these guys that you're, that you have such an intimate relationship with, like these teammates, like the brotherhood and all of that is sort of gone. And you have to figure out another way to build that into your life, right? So that community, I'm sure played a part in that. And there is something very specific about ultra running that when you're trying to answer these big questions for yourself, like, okay, well, what am I going to do now with my life? All that solitude and that connection

• 1:26:19Rich Roll?

  with nature is a great way to kind of wrestle with those questions to try to find the answers for yourself.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you talk about that solitude and that connection with nature, you know? I get, I get so much energy from the living things within nature. Like, it's happened to me only twice, but I, I, I can distinctly remember two times I was leaning against a tree for a long period of time. And I actually was able to feel the life and almost personality of this tree like pass through me or into me. I could feel it.

• 1:27:04Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Um, right, right in here where my, where my heart is and uh.

• 1:27:08Rich Roll?

  Like you're having a psychedelic experience.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, but I've never, I mean, I've never done drugs before, man, but it was.

• 1:27:14Rich Roll?

  I think your brain is dripping D M T.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, man.

• 1:27:17Rich Roll?

  Something like that. You have all these visions.

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  And I, I realized, I realized that this, dang, this stuff, this stuff is alive, man. Like, we can get energy, uh, we can get perspective, we can get that from, from nature and the things that are living in nature.

• 1:27:31Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  So that's a big.

• 1:27:33Rich Roll?

  Like to see it, like there's something about ultra running that strips away, you know, everything, you know, that gets in the way of being able to have that connection.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally, man.

• 1:27:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  So I think that's a big part of it, those walls, you know, tearing those walls down.

• 1:27:48Rich Roll?

  But there's a difference between, hey, you know, I like this ultra running thing and like winning races and just like doing these super crazy ra, like you've, you've created quite a career for yourself as an ultra runner. Like you've been super successful. I want to talk about this Revenant race. Can we talk about that?

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we can talk about the Revenant.

• 1:28:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Rich Roll?

  Was that last year? When did you do that?

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was last year and then we'll be going, we're going, or I'm going back this year, um, obviously to give it another go. Um, but the Revenant is a very unique event held on the South Island of New Zealand. And the basic format of the race, it's, um.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Four 50 kilometer loops, but it's all off trail and you have to navigate the course with map and compass. So it's very similar. I'm sure you've heard of the Barclay marathons.

• 1:28:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course. Barclay gets all the press, but this Revenant one sounds even harder.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, well, I mean, each, every race is, it's hard to say which race is harder than the other because they all have their specific, you know, difficulties. But yeah, the, the, the terrain on the South Island, New Zealand is very, very hard to get through. It's very a harsh environment. And then also too, you have weather. I would say, you know, the weather in, in New Zealand is, is just as extreme, if not more extreme, as the weather you would experience in Tennessee, you know, so. It, uh, yeah, it's, uh, we went out and I gave it the first shot last year and made it around one loop.

• 1:29:29Rich Roll?

  So, hold on a second. First of all, so this race, it also has like 105,000 feet of vertical gain too, right?

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's got a lot of climbing.

• 1:29:38Rich Roll?

  Bushwhacking. And prior to your involvement with this race, not a single person had ever completed one loop, let alone four. Is that right?

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

• 1:29:50Rich Roll?

  And how long, how many years has the race been around for?

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  Um, well, actually, the, so the, the thing is, last year was the inaugural year of the race. Yeah. So this was, this was something that the race director has, the race director, Scott Worthington, he's, he has went out and designed this course and he has done this course under perfect conditions. So he knows it can be completed. But, but there's so many things when you're doing a race like this that are out of your control. Environmental factors, you know what I mean?

• 1:30:25Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  So, you know, that's what makes it different than a normal 100 miler is if you have an inversion layer move in and it's so foggy, you can't see the ground you're standing on, you can't navigate in that type of environment.

• 1:30:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  Whereas a normal race, you're just on a trail with your head down, you can turn everything off and rock and roll.

• 1:30:45Rich Roll?

  So you show up for this thing, there's crazy unprecedented weather, but you're able to do a loop, right? You're the only person who's done a loop?

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  There were, I think, three people that did, that finished one loop last year. No one finished a second loop. So that one loop is the most that's been done on the course. Yeah, I mean, we got through it, man. It wasn't pretty.

• 1:31:13Rich Roll?

  My favorite thing are these, these races that no one has ever actually completed. Or these last man standing races, you know, which is just a different way to compete with yourself.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love them too, man.

• 1:31:26Rich Roll?

  So how did you, how did you get connected with Jesse?

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  Jesse was training for a last man standing event. And he actually hit me up on Instagram. I just had created this new fangled Instagram account. Last May. So, yeah, he hit me up and said, hey, man.

• 1:31:51Rich Roll?

  You can't, you can't be on Instagram when you're a Navy SEAL.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  No, totally, man, totally. So, yeah, my buddy was like, you gotta do this Instagram thing. So I got on there and Jesse hit me up. It's been, it's been a blessing. That's been an awesome platform to share the message, you know, on now. But he just invited me to come out and run with him and my brother Mark Brown. And we spent a day, we ran 50 miles that day. There were a few rules that I had, you know, set in place for our group that day. And we hit it off. I mean.

• 1:32:24Rich Roll?

  What were the rules? What do you mean you set rules?

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  So the rules for the day were we had to run until I said stop. We didn't, I didn't want them to know where the finish line was because we were really trying to replicate the environment that they were going to experience at the last man standing event. We had to share one thing every hour that we were thankful for with each other.

• 1:32:48Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Three grown men.

• 1:32:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  Might, it might sound silly, right?

• 1:32:52Rich Roll?

  No, I don't think that's, I think that's cool.

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was. It was so cool because like when, when Jesse or Mark would share something that they were thankful for, it might have been something that by no means applies to my life, but just them expressing that thankfulness like gave me a boost of energy.

• 1:33:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  So that was the point in that exercise was to really keep our speech revolving around things that we were thankful for and, and things that positivity.

• 1:33:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Last rule, no cussing.

• 1:33:26Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  Same stuff, spoken word, man. So.

• 1:33:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, we ran, we ran 50 miles together. You know, the bonds that form in, in those times.

• 1:33:38Rich Roll?

  And that was it.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  And, and that was it. I mean, how can you not like, how could you not like being around Jesse and, and you don't know Mark yet, but.

• 1:33:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Both, both of them, man.

• 1:33:46Rich Roll?

  For those that are listening, we got the two guys here sitting like right off camera. Um, I, I mean, and Jesse is such an amazing person.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  He is.

• 1:33:54Rich Roll?

  He's a, he's a, he's such a beautiful and also charismatic, natural leader and he's just all about the group. You know what I mean?

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  You spend 15 minutes around Jesse, you're gonna feel like you can conquer the world, man.

• 1:34:08Rich Roll?

  I know, I know. He's very gifted in that way.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  I'm so thankful for his friendship and you know, he's taught me so much. You know, you talked about Jesse saying I was his like go-to guy. Well, Jesse's also my go-to guy. You know, we, it's, it's a friendship. We just share with each other the lessons that, that have worked for us.

• 1:34:29Rich Roll?

  Right. So do you live around Atlanta now or where, where do you call home?

• 1:34:33Speaker 01

  We just moved back to Atlanta, my wife and I about three, three or four weeks ago.

• 1:34:39Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we just left Virginia Beach and we're loving life, man.

• 1:34:44Rich Roll?

  Nice.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  North Georgia's awesome.

• 1:34:46Rich Roll?

  What's a, what's a typical day look like for you training wise?

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Um, so typical day, Rich, I wake up in the morning around six o'clock. Um, I give the first fruits of my day to God. So that maybe that's five minutes, maybe that's 45 minutes, either studying His Word or prayer. Um, move on from there, I French press a little coffee. Get a cup of coffee in and then I'm training from eight, you know, seven or eight in the morning until noon.

• 1:35:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  So I'm taking a four, I'm, I'm blocking out four to five hours a day usually to train. That is all dependent on what I'm training for, um, or where I'm at within that training cycle. So it could be a four hour hike. It could be a, a 30 mile run. It could be intervals, it could be interval, it could be a long run plus strength training. It's different depending on obviously what I'm training for.

• 1:35:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Do you work with a coach or are you doing this yourself?

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't work with a coach and you know, it's been, we've been doing, I've been doing kind of hard stuff, running, endurance type stuff for so long. I mean, that, all that stuff was born in the, in the SEAL teams, you know? That, um, I just, I've reached a point that I can listen to my body and kind of know when I need to push hard and when I need to back off. So I haven't really got to the point that I need a coach yet.

• 1:36:14Rich Roll?

  Right. And what are you currently training for? Like what's, what's the big race that you're keying on right now?

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  So the Revenant in January, that's, that's a big one. And then I'll probably do Cruel Jewel again in May, that race in North Georgia where I tore my hamstring. I actually finished eighth place out there two years ago. So I'm thinking I can go back now with a little more knowledge and a stronger body. And hopefully, you know, do, do much better.

• 1:36:40Rich Roll?

  And what about Barclay?

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  Um, lem, I got a crack to Revenant first, man. I mean, yeah, we'll talk about Barclay after, after that, man.

• 1:36:50Rich Roll?

  Um, well, let's pivot a little bit to talking about, like, I'm interested in hearing more about, you know, your wisdom that could be helpful to people that are listening out there. We're embarking on a new year and, you know, like I said at the outset, you know, people are trying to wrap their heads around how to achieve these goals that they've set for themselves. And what do you think are, are some of the biggest obstacles that people put in front of themselves unnecessarily?

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  So, one of the, one of the big ones for me personally is um

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  overthinking stuff, man. And that just, I mean, it just goes back to, to simplifying a situation. You know, so i- if you set a goal for yourself, or you might be trying to establish a goal. For me, there's only two questions.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Is this something that you want? And are you going to have fun? Along the journey, along the way? So whatever that goal may be, instead of sitting there thinking about it and stressing about it and thinking about everything that's that could potentially stop you or hinder you. Just make sure it's what you want. Make sure you're gonna have fun on the journey to accomplishing that goal. And then just rock and roll with it. Get started. Start surrounding yourself with, with the people that are that are going to help you. The people that might have the knowledge that you need to accomplish that goal.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Start, you know, utilizing your time better to, you know, to accomplish your goal or to, to reach the point that you're trying to. It's utilizing all those tools that, the universal tools that we all have. We have people, we have time. All of us have these things. Some of us may have a little more than others, but that doesn't matter.

• 1:38:55Rich Roll?

  What about the guy who sends you a DM on Instagram and says, "Man, I'm so inspired by all these things that you've done. I'd love to run an ultra one day, but like, you know, I, my life's too busy for that."

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Um. You have time for what you, what you make time for, man. Your life, that to me is not a valid excuse, dude. Here's the thing, that specific question, I just did, uh, two, no, a month ago, I did two back-to-back hundred mile races. I did a hundred miler called the Georgia Jewel. I placed second place there. The week after that, I did another hundred miler with Jesse. So back-to-back.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  Prior to those races, the three months prior to those races, I had only averaged about 20 miles per week of training.

• 1:39:47Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  So, the, the, the time commitment, if people, people just blow up the training cycle that, that they think has to precede these races, man.

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  You know, the time commitment is not that, that significant.

• 1:40:06Rich Roll?

  In other words, the idea that before you're gonna run 100 mile or you gotta put in two years of consistent 100 mile weeks.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, man. I, I just, I don't, I don't subscribe to that. There again, I think somebody that, that doesn't have much running background, if they, if they surround themselves with people that can kinda give them the right, the right advice

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  from a mindset standpoint, and also just from a how to take care of yourself standpoint, that, that the training commitment is not that great. It's, it's all, for me, it's all about just having a strong, healthy body and spending time on your feet, man.

• 1:40:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So what is the, the mental routine that you, that you utilize to get your head right for these things? I mean, I guess it's baked into you at this point, but if you were coaching somebody who, you know, isn't skilled at, at, you know, measuring their spoken words or, you know, doesn't quite have the ability to kind of master their emotional state because they're, you know, have some mental weaknesses, like how do you get that person to the next level?

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  I would tell them, after we talked about the spoken word, we talked about all those tools,

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  when the pain gets, when, when this self-inflicted pain, when it gets to be significant and you think that you just cannot handle it,

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  the biggest thing that I do is I stop fighting against it.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  And I come to this realization that like I reached this steady state, I call it the steady state to where, yeah, it hurts, but I understand that it's not going to hurt any worse because it already hurts as bad, you know, as bad as it can. And then I stopped fighting against the pain because when you fight, like when you're using your, your energy like emotionally to like battle against this pain and you're hating it, you know, you're just hating this feeling that you're having, it actually gives that pain more

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  power over you. And I learned this in Bud's, man, with the cold, when they'd put us in a surf zone and freeze us to death. It's like when you would fight against the cold, you just got colder and you were just more miserable. But when you just accepted the fact that, all right, I'm cold, and you just let that feeling just pass through you, it's, it's like freeing. You free up this well of energy that you can then use to, to carry on with your mission, you know?

• 1:43:01Rich Roll?

  Right. And how does that play out in other areas of your life outside of running?

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  How does that, um, outside of running? So I'll tell you, Rich, how that plays out is we talk about not fighting against the things that, that we hate. Like I hate the cold, so I stopped fighting against the cold. In my life, or in, in all of our lives, we only have a certain amount of energy every single day.

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  So we choose how we want to use our energy. Every, every interaction that we have, every post we make, every email we respond to, every word we say is a withdrawal from our tank of energy. I try to remain constantly aware of how I'm using that precious energy. And I use that energy never to fight against the things that I might not agree with, the things that I might hate. But I try to use that energy to foster and promote the things that have worked for me,

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  that I believe and have found to be true and pure and, and the message that, that I've been delivered. You know, so using that energy, not fighting against the things that you might hate, because that's just going to grind you down, man. No matter what the issue is, if it's a political or a social issue, you're wasting your time and usually-

• 1:44:42Rich Roll?

  It's not effective anyway.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  It's not, usually you can make the biggest impact on the things that you hate by promoting the things that you love. And it's so much easier to promote the things that you love.

• 1:44:57Rich Roll?

  I think that's very wise and we could all use a little bit more of that, particularly in our public discourse and on social media. And there's a, you know, there is a significant portion of the population that exerts a huge amount of energy trying to tear other people down or just getting into arguments and fighting with people. And it's not effective and I think it wears on your soul. And I think there's a sense of, um, like weirdly there, there's a sense of accomplishment that people have when they do, like they think that they've actually, like if you feel strongly about something and you criticize somebody else because they see the world differently, there's a sense that you actually are advancing your cause by doing that. And I think that that's an illusion.

• 1:45:43Rich Roll?

  And I think it's, it, it, it, it really does kind of, there's an erosion on yourself when you participate in that. And I, I'm always- Challenge though, because I think it is important to speak up for what you believe in, right? And there's a lot of dissonance out there right now, and there's a lot of problems in the world and a lot of, you know, things that we could be doing better that we're not doing. But what is the best way to accomplish those things?

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  Totally. And this, like I said, Rich, this is, this is just my perspective, man. This is just works for, what works for me. I think you're, you know, you saying that, yeah, you should stand up for the things that you believe in, like, yes, that has validity. But, you know, to put this in practical terms, if there's an issue in today's society that I don't agree with, you're not going to find me in town, holding a poster board, marching against this cause. You're not going to find me posting things out into social media that are warring against this cause. You're going to find me marching for the things that I believe in and to be pure and true. It's so much easier to do that,

• 1:46:58Speaker 01

  man.

• 1:46:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:01Speaker 01

  That's the way I live my life, man.

• 1:47:03Rich Roll?

  Better for you too, right?

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  No kidding, brother.

• 1:47:05Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 1:47:05Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 1:47:06Rich Roll?

  So what is the big, we're going to wrap this up in a minute, but what is the, what is the thing that you're still struggling with? Like, when you look at yourself or, you know, where you want to do better and be better? Like, talk to me about the obstacles that you're grappling with now and how you're trying to overcome them.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  I would say one of the biggest obstacles that I'm grappling with right now, and I hate even calling it an obstacle, man, because it's just something that I need to be-

• 1:47:39Rich Roll?

  An opportunity.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just something that I'm aware of right now, is that kind of as, as things, as my life starts rolling now, and, and, you know, as things kind of grow and get bigger with three of seven and the stuff that we have going on.

• 1:48:04Speaker 01

  The biggest thing that I try to remain aware of is I never want all this, all the stuff, like all the, the social media and, and just all the, the phone calls and the emails. I never want that to get in the way of or tarnish

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  the purity of myself or the things that I, that, that I, my message.

• 1:48:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So that's something that I

• 1:48:36Rich Roll?

  That's tricky. That's hard.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  I'm so aware. I just try to stay aware of that, man. And, and not that I'm, not that I'm famous or anything on any, in any, I'm not even close to that, but things, you know, are the influence with three of seven, we get, you know, I get messages every day and, you know, it takes time to respond to all that stuff. And I have to say, okay, this four or five hour block in the morning, this is non-negotiable. This is my time to go spend in the woods, doing what I love to do, because if I don't keep my own ship in order, I can't do anything for anybody else.

• 1:49:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  So maybe that sums it up. Keeping my own ship in order.

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  So I can carry on.

• 1:49:22Rich Roll?

  Be the best advocate that you can be.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  That's exactly right, brother.

• 1:49:26Rich Roll?

  I feel you, man. And it gets, you know, it gets, it gets hard.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  I couldn't imagine it, brother.

• 1:49:31Rich Roll?

  Well, basically people dangle in front of you like, you know, shiny things, like cool opportunities to go to cool places and, and do cool stuff.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:40Rich Roll?

  And, and sometimes that's great, you know, but also it can be at, at the cost of making sure that you have boundaries around those things. So I've, I've been on both sides of that and it gets, it's, it's hard, but I think you're, you're, your head's in the right place with trying to make sure that you protect that. Because without that, there's nothing.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  There's nothing, man. There's nothing. And also being the best husband that I can be, that's another thing, you know, I'm, that's part of my ship. As I say, keeping my own ship in order, that's, that's my, my wife and I are family. I, I view that as a whole.

• 1:50:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  You know, so that's all part of that, man.

• 1:50:16Rich Roll?

  Cool. All right. Well, let's end this with a final thought for the person who's, who's out there who feels stuck, they're in a rut. Maybe they're not happy with their job or they're trying to get off the couch and move their body for the first time in a long time. Like, how do we, how do we cattle prod? That dude or that young lady to get after it a little bit more. Come on, man.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:50:41Rich Roll?

  Bring us home.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  Man, I am not much of a.

• 1:50:44Rich Roll?

  I'm ready to hire you as my life coach.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  Bro, I am not much of a cattle prodder. That's the thing, Rich. I mean, like I say, I'm so hesitant to give advice or to try to tell someone what to do. I mean, I guess I could just keep it super simple and, you know, go over the things we talked about. Simplify things. Don't be afraid to put yourself in adverse situations because that's where you're going to grow as a human being. The decisions you make in times of adversity, self-inflicted or totally out of your control, are the things that those decisions define who you are as a human.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  But don't fear inflicting that adversity on yourself because it's going to help you grow as a human being. So I would say, go put yourself through a little adversity. It may be, it may be only running for five minutes to start with. It may not be running. It may be something completely different than that. But don't fear it because I feel like it's essential for us as humans to experience that in life. And the last thing that I would say is if you're struggling emotionally from that kind of aspect is, take a look at your body, soul, and spirit. Look at those three aspects of your humanity, each as a single lane.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  And think about, what are you doing on a day-to-day basis to master, nurture, and maintain your body, your soul, and spirit? And usually, that can be used as a diagnostic.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  To see, okay, I am lacking here. I'm lacking and I need to get some help with my emotional side, my will, what I want and don't want to do. Do I want to get out of bed in the morning? Do I not want to get out of, you know, that type of stuff? And then the spiritual side, you know, that can be, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be spending time in nature. For me, it's spending time in God's Word. It could, it could be anything, you know?

• 1:52:53Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, for somebody who is very reluctant to, to provide a little, I guess I called it the cattle prod, but you know, a little wisdom and advice. I think that's very beautifully said, man.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Thank you, Rich. I appreciate it, brother.

• 1:53:08Rich Roll?

  Thank you for coming here today. I appreciate it. And thank you for your service. And please come back and talk to me some more, man.

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Roger that.

• 1:53:16Rich Roll?

  Next time, we gotta, we gotta go running though.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:21Rich Roll?

  You went running in Beverly Hills today, right?

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  LA, LA dude. I like, dude, I was about to have a panic attack running down. It was crazy, man.

• 1:53:31Rich Roll?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  So I'm thankful to be out here in the country today, man.

• 1:53:34Rich Roll?

  Next time, yeah, this is, I joked with you ahead of time. This is the North Georgia of Los Angeles.

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  That's it, my man.

• 1:53:39Rich Roll?

  Next time, you know where to hang out and stay.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  Thank you, Rich.

• 1:53:42Rich Roll?

  Peace. So if people want to connect with you, Instagram is the best place for them to find you?

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, Instagram, it's, you can put it in the show notes. It's C-H-A-D-W-R-I-G-H-T-278 is my Instagram handle. And then also if you're interested in more about Three of Seven Project, that's just threeofsevenproject.com.

• 1:54:05Rich Roll?

  Right. And you can find that on Apple Podcasts and all that kind of stuff?

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  So the podcast portion is threeofsevenpodcast. And yeah, that's on Apple.

• 1:54:15Rich Roll?

  But the blog and all that kind of stuff?

• 1:54:16Speaker 01

  You can, yeah, you can find the podcast on the website, threeofsevenproject.com. So yeah, you can find it. If, if you're meant to find it, you'll find it. It's easy.

• 1:54:26Rich Roll?

  Cool. All right, man. Thank you, brother.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  Thank you, Rich. God bless you, bros.

• 1:54:33Rich Roll?

  So that happened. We did that. I think that should get you in the right mindset, frame of mind to tackle 2020. What do you guys think? I really enjoyed it. Hope you dug Chad. Please check the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com for more information to immerse yourself in his world. And let Chad know how this one landed for you by sharing your thoughts with him directly. You can find him on Instagram @chadwright278 with one D. Interestingly, he's Chad with two D's, but on Instagram, it's only one D. C-H-A-D-W-R-I-G-H-T 278. And also, you can learn more about his Three of Seven Project at threeofsevenproject.com. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate, and comment on

• 1:55:18Rich Roll?

  it on Apple Podcasts. Tell your friends about your favorite episode. Share the show on social media. Hit that subscribe button on YouTube, Spotify, and Google. And you can also support us on Patreon at richroll.com/donate. I appreciate my team for helping me put on the show, week in, week out. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes, interstitial music. Blake Curtis and Margot Lubin for videoing the podcast and editing it. Jessica Miranda for graphics. Ellie Rogers for portraits. DK for advertiser relationships and theme music by Anna Lema. Thanks for the love, you guys. Hope you're enjoying this introduction to 2020. And I will see you back here in a couple of days with health psychologist Kelly McGonigal to

• 1:56:02Rich Roll?

  talk about stress, anxiety, and the joy of movement. Here's a clip. Until then, remember, do not, under any circumstances, give your pain a voice. Don't do it. Peace. Namaste.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  Movement is how your brain knows you are alive and engaged in life. And when you move on a regular basis, your brain basically says, I guess we have to be the best version of ourselves because we're in this thing called life. And so I think this is how we should frame movement, that it's something you can choose to do to really powerfully influence your mental health.

• 1:56:47Speaker 02

  And your resilience. And every time you move, you're doing that. I believe that there's a form of movement meant for everyone. And no matter what body you're in, or no matter what your past experience is, there's probably a way that moving your body will give you access to something that you want, whether it's social connection, or hope, a different sense of yourself. I think people shouldn't believe that there are these tricks to behavior change that are beyond what your intuition can lead you to, if you are clear about what you care about and you're willing to experiment, and not give up the first time it doesn't go as planned.