Lucy Hale: Sober Doesn't Mean Boring (FBF)

Hope you enjoy this throwback episode! Originally aired on October 31, 2023. Join Alex in the studio for a powerful sit-down interview with Lucy Hale. Lucy opens up about the struggles she was facing behind the scenes and reveals the absolute rock bottom moment that led to her getting sober. She reflects on how drinking negatively impacted both her friendships and romantic relationships. Lucy tells Alex about what life looks like sober and how she’s been navigating dating and sex without alcohol. Daddy Gang, get ready because this is an amazing and inspiring conversation you won't want to miss!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  Lucy Hale, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy that I'm finally meeting you.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I, this is happening. We're here.

• 2:30Alex Cooper?

  We're here.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  It's, I was just saying, your room is exactly how I thought it would make me feel.

• 2:34Alex Cooper?

  Oh, cozy.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  This is so great. Thank you for having me.

• 2:37Alex Cooper?

  Cozy. You also just told me that your mom is a fan of Call Her Daddy, so I'm immediately like, bow down, Mama Hale.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Hi Julie. Yeah, I was talking to her last night and she was just like, how's your jet lag? What are you doing tomorrow? I was like, I'm actually doing a podcast. And she goes, which one? I said, Call Her Daddy. She goes, I love Call Her Daddy. I was like, Mom? She, she knows, she knows all the cool things. She actually like keeps me young.

• 2:59Alex Cooper?

  I love that for you and I love that for me because a mother liking the show is the highest compliment. So hello Julie.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  You're doing so many things right.

• 3:06Alex Cooper?

  I want to go back to the beginning because I feel like obviously we've seen you on television, but maybe there are people that are like, where are you from? I don't know you. So.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  You are you.

• 3:15Alex Cooper?

  Who are you Lucy? Let's get into it.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  I'm still figuring it out. Yeah.

• 3:19Alex Cooper?

  So obviously you moved to LA super young, but you grew up in Memphis, Tennessee.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  I did.

• 3:23Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about like, what were you like as a child?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  I lived in Tennessee until I was 15 and kind of split a lot of my time with my mom, who is in Memphis, and my dad, who lived in Mississippi. Very simple upbringing, like two hardworking parents. My dad's a farmer. My mom was a nurse. I was a very sensitive child. I still consider myself a sensitive gal, which I now view as like a, a good thing. But growing up, you know, you're, I was having, I just felt like very emotional and very kind of misunderstood, which is I think why I

• 4:07Speaker 01

  wanted to become an entertainer because I felt like, oh, what, what an amazing outlet for me to ultimately be anyone other than myself. So I think.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  You know, as a kid, I was having all of these thoughts and I just needed um a place to put all these feelings. And so I started taking singing lessons and acting lessons and um my mom and I moved to California when I was fifteen. And I never left, so I've been here nineteen, going on twenty years.

• 4:38Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk a little bit about that of like feeling misunderstood? Like, give me an example.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I think, you know, whether I was misunderstood or not, who really knows? But in my little sensitive child brain, I was like, I felt like an alien. I felt like an alien amongst my friends. I felt like an alien in my family sometimes. And I don't, I can't really pinpoint like the moment in my life where that all started happening. But I, I do remember having a feeling um at a very young age of being like, I think in this life, like I have myself and we're, we're gonna have to get through it by myself. I don't know where that came from. I have no idea. But um, you know, I, I, I felt like being artistic and being emotional.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  I couldn't really find a good friend group growing up. And I think that that's where that feeling of being misunderstood started. Um, I, I do consider myself really introverted, actually, which is like, people are always surprised to say that because of my job, which is like very extroverted. But um, my job makes me feel really uncomfortable sometimes. And um, and I think that being an actor, it's, I'm hiding behind a veil of something. Like, the last couple of years of my life, because of my job and like finding success pretty early on and doing all of these things, I, I didn't get a chance to figure out who I actually was. And if I did, I didn't really like who I was.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  So I was like running away from myself for so long.

• 6:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  For so long. And so. The last couple of years, I think, and this is to tie it back around, I think I was feeling so misunderstood by a lot of people for so long. Because I didn't understand myself. How can other people understand you if you have no fucking idea who you are?

• 6:32Alex Cooper?

  It's so interesting you say that because when I started dating my now fiance. I like grew up in Pennsylvania. I looked at actors like gods. And I thought that they had the best lives in the world. And my fiance being a producer, like I started to talk about the industry more and he was like, I have a lot of empathy for actors because what people don't see on the other side of it is like, we fall in love with you and your character of like, who you play on a certain TV show or whatever it is or in a movie. But what you guys are dealing with is like, you're handed a script. That you're told to like get into character of this person and you can really lean in. But like, there's a lack of like autonomy of like,

• 7:16Alex Cooper?

  actually having control in a lot of these ways. So people are falling in love with something that like, you tried to bring to life, but it's also not you. So it's a kind of a weird thing of like.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  It is weird. It is weird. And then also being a part of something that lasted for so long. And being a part of that while I was figuring out who I was, I was like, I don't even, am I this character or am I me like? And, and then seeing people fall in love with this experience and fall in love with that character. I'm like, well, maybe I should be more like this character because I don't, I don't really know who I am. And I can only obviously speak from my, my experience, but I do find that a lot of actors feel similar in the sense of like, I think we fall into this line of work because we're, we're kind of filling some sort of void. It's like on some level where, we're all like a little broken or like a little or a lot insecure. In my case, I was like,

• 8:10Speaker 01

  I think this is gonna make me feel like I'm whole if all these people like me and I book these jobs and I look a certain way and, um, does it temporarily feel great? Hell, yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Like it does feel great. I love my job. I love certain aspects of it.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  But that doesn't fix what's broken in you and it makes it worse.

• 8:31Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, it's almost like you can like hide even more behind it and also go down a trail of like,

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 8:36Alex Cooper?

  I can imagine you're so young and you're like, is this my personality? Like, am I like this?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:42Alex Cooper?

  Do I like this type of man? Like,

• 8:43Speaker 01

  I was even dressing like the character off camera. And of course, I'm like, you know, I, I started that when I was twenty years old, so.

• 8:52Alex Cooper?

  But still, like, I would be fucked up being like, first, I also want to know because obviously Memphis is so wildly different than Los Angeles.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:00Alex Cooper?

  And so before you move, at what age did your parents get divorced?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I think I was four and I have very vivid memories of like the conversation. Um, and somehow knowing at that age that it was a good thing.

• 9:13Alex Cooper?

  Why did you feel that way? Did you see them fight a lot?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't very calm. I think there was a lot of chaos in the house and.

• 9:22Alex Cooper?

  As we get older, we start to realize, like even when you were saying, like, I was introverted, like, I felt misunderstood. As I've gone through therapy, I'm like so much of why we are the way we are. It's before even peer dynamics. It's like, what was happening in your house?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Well, don't they say that you are who you are between the ages of two and five?

• 9:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Well, holy crap, like,

• 9:44Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  You know, like, that was when things really blew up. And I think at a very young age, that is when like my desire to please everyone started. Like, I just wanted everyone to be happy. I wanted mom to be happy. I wanted my dad to be protected. Um, I've, I've always been like fiercely protective of my dad and, and I think, um, as a kid, you, everything is personal. You think everything's your fault. So you're like, okay, if I just act a certain way, then maybe mommy and daddy will be happy and life will be perfect. And I find that a lot of women feel similar to me in the people pleasing. I think it's totally, molly.

• 10:23Alex Cooper?

  We could do a whole episode on that.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  I mean, and undoing it, I'm in like the process of undoing being a people pleaser because it's so hard for my brain to accept that I can be nice and set boundaries because. All of my twenties, I was like, you know what? If I'm the nicest one, people will like me more. And it's like, well, that's just not

• 10:43Alex Cooper?

  They're getting accepted over.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  abandonment of self.

• 10:46Alex Cooper?

  So you're just like, I'll just take it and I'll just be quiet on that or whatever. But then you start to be like, okay, wait, why am I getting taken advantage of like all the time? And it's difficult to like, start to do something and go against something that like you have done your whole life the opposite way.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think at a young age, I I just realized. I just wanted people to like me. I always felt like. Life would be fine if, you know, everyone was happy and people just accepted me. And I'm like, God, that's sad that at a young age I I felt those things.

• 11:19Alex Cooper?

  But even you saying like when you're in your house being like, if I'm the peacemaker, like maybe things will calm down like, I think that's like, it can weave into then like your peer dynamics of like, you're just like, keep the peace, everybody like me, like I just want to like be here, be quiet, like don't speak up.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  It's the quiet thing.

• 11:37Alex Cooper?

  But I do think it's really relatable, especially I think as women of like, wanting to be noticed and seen and heard and then also feeling deeply insecure when you are being seen and heard because we're we're basically taught to doubt ourselves. Like it's different with men. Like as girls, it's like be polite, sit down, be lady, like be good. It's like, what am I doing it right? And I think it can create a lot of like division in your brain of like what you want versus like what your natural instinct is, which is like, and then what society has taught us like of how to be. So I am with you on that, girl.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I vividly, vividly remember a moment in my life. I was upstairs, I was with my karaoke machine. I think I was like singing something from Pink.

• 12:21Alex Cooper?

  Love it.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  And I remember thinking, my life will be different. My life is going to be different. I don't belong here.

• 12:28Alex Cooper?

  Don't you think that's like a normal human instinct though, that like when you're in such a situation? Like I felt that way with my Catholic school upbringing of like so Catholic. Every Sunday, we had to go to church, we had to do this. When you're in like a system that is like forcing you to like, be a specific way, your brain can't help but be like, what if I just went that way? But you can't help but be like.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Like, is it? I'm just completely agree. I'm just laughing because I love Kelly Clarkson and there's that song Breakaway. I was like, that was the moment. I'm like, we're getting out of here, baby. Like, and we did, is what's crazy.

• 13:06Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  And so this moment, I remember it was like, I was sitting on this like crazy shaggy carpet we had upstairs and I was like, no, we're gonna do some things. And of course, I didn't know what that meant. I just intuitively knew that I wanted something special and different for myself.

• 13:22Alex Cooper?

  Dude, I'm dying thinking of you up in your bedroom like, and break away.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Also, I thought I was gonna be Kelly Clarkson 2.0.

• 13:33Alex Cooper?

  Didn't we all? Back to Lucy.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Anyway, back to you.

• 13:37Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so you say you moved to LA when you are 15. Okay, and what I read, your mom had to take out her retirement money to get you guys there? Did you feel like excited, guilty, pressure?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna lie, I felt zero guilt.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  But only because I knew it was gonna work out. Um, I think as time went on, I, I did feel a little guilt of what my mom actually sacrificed. And I often am like, that was truly unhinged that we drove across the country and you, you know, she was a, a nurse and she would work nights, who would drive me to my auditions during the day and sleep in the car.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's amazing. My mom moved back to Tennessee when I was 17 because by then I was doing little jobs here and there, enough to, you know, go spend my money at Forever 21 and have a shitty apartment. But, but things started moving like relatively quickly when we got here, enough for my mom to be like, okay.

• 14:43Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  But it's also really interesting because when I look back at that experience, it, um, instead of, like, if I'm completely transparent, instead of thinking of all the amazing things, which I can now like, hold so much gratitude and space for that, I look back on that and I think of all the things that were happening behind the scenes and how I was feeling and the things I was dealing with and the things I was running away from and the pressure of

• 15:09Speaker 01

  being on this show that was so adored by people and.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  And so I think it's okay for like to hold space for how amazing it was, but also to know that like that uh was very painful and challenging for me to navigate. Because I think what was going on behind the scenes were things I would have no doubt dealt with, whether I lived in Tennessee, Timbuktu, or LA. I know that because like we talked about, these things happen when you're a tiny baby child, you know? And so I don't know on what end of the spectrum it would have been on, but

• 15:50Speaker 01

  but I do know that um the success and the notoriety and everything happening really amped up, ramped up the the intense feelings that I was like desperately trying to shove in that emotional baggage trunk.

• 16:07Alex Cooper?

  When I hear you saying that too, I feel like, which I, I think this is like the beauty of people and I think it's gotten so much better in the past few years of like finally people starting to actually speak about things that they experience. Like I think about Rob Pattinson and Kristen Stewart for so long not wanting to talk about Twilight and people like, because when you have these like beloved projects that we as viewers are just like, I love you, we love it, this is perfect, we are obsessed with you girls, we love you all, are you guys all best friends? Do you guys all love each other? Is everything perfect? There's this like idealization of it that I think as you guys as the characters in it probably feel this responsibility to like smile through and be like, we love it because

• 16:49Alex Cooper?

  you're, you're the image. Like you, you are almost responsible for keeping all these like young girls' dreams alive of how much they loved the show and you don't want to be like, I was struggling while I was doing this.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:01Alex Cooper?

  But you're also a human being and that was your reality. And you're talking obviously about how there are things going on behind the scenes.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Yes. So I will say that I didn't graduate high school and so that's a little context of, you know, I was emancipated at 17. It's taken me many years, many breakdowns, many experiences to realize what I was actually feeling in those moments. I think any young female, no matter where you are, what you do, you feel

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Pressure. You want to look a certain way. You want to be a certain way. You like, you just want people to accept you and to like you. You want, not, maybe not everyone, maybe there are some healthier minds, mindset liars. Uh, but you know, you, you want attention from guys. You just want,

• 17:58Speaker 01

  you just want to be liked. Simply put, you want to be liked. And so I, before I had even booked, I struggled heavily with the eating disorder.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  And like, looking back now, it's, you know, I look at a picture and I don't think, oh, wow, like, I'm like, oh, I can tell exactly based off of my weight or what was going on, what I was going through at the time. I was not healthy. I was not healthy. And in it, you know, and it makes me sad almost because obviously no one else knew that I wasn't healthy, but to to know that young women were watching the show and

• 18:41Speaker 01

  and I, of course, I didn't know who I was yet, but I was, I just want people to know that that what that's not.

• 18:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I was not in a good place. And, and so I, you know, I was dealing with the eating stuff and the food stuff, which ultimately um, is, is just feeling completely out of control. Uh, once again, would have dealt with this, no matter what I did for a living, but it's kind of, you know, I chose an industry that like, um, really heightened all of that for me. Uh, yeah, like I have very vivid memories of watching some of the show and being like disgusted as and being like, well, we gotta stop eating. We gotta, and it, and it was just because I

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Was overwhelmed like I I don't I I'm not sure how I would have done it any differently like I was doing the best I could and and it did I think like having that kind of control over my body or my weight it did make me feel good because I was like my life is changing and I don't know where I fit in in the show with these girls like I at least I have this one thing that I can control.

• 19:56Alex Cooper?

  That's interesting. You're like that's the one thing that you knew you were in full control of even if it was unhealthy and hurting you you were like I

• 20:04Speaker 01

  False sense of security and I held on to that for a really long time.

• 20:10Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about that because I think that the dynamic of having these beautiful women on set you yourself included we all compare ourselves like I look back to myself in high school and like the jealousy of like the girl that I was like oh my god she's so beautiful I want to look like her and like it's just how we are conditioned as women of like

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:32Alex Cooper?

  Who's the prettiest in the group who's the skinniest who's the this like how did you handle that with all all of you being so gorgeous and you're all staring at each other?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  I think at the time I would have told myself like we're not competitive and of course I'm only speaking from me of course there was of course I felt the pressure not to be pretty or or to look better but to like keep up because I did look at Shay and Troy and Sasha and Janelle and Ashley and I was like what the fuck these are angels amongst me and like do I fit into that there was often it was often it was more and people always wanted to pit us against each other and were we all best friends? No.

• 21:12Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Some of us connected some of us did not did we have rough patches of course we were in our fucking twenties of course.

• 21:21Alex Cooper?

  Like obviously.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  But like there was always a lot of love I I feel like but but yeah there was a lot of nights where I'm like okay.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know how to keep up with this. I don't know if I want to keep up with this. This is and it like would eat away at me.

• 21:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  And I don't know how I've actually never talked to them, the other girls about this. I don't know if they felt the same way.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  I also think that it's different now where women are more supportive of each other. I think it's kind of ingrained in us as women. It's like in our DNA that like there can only be one.

• 22:02Alex Cooper?

  Yup.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  This fucking bullshit.

• 22:04Alex Cooper?

  It's so fucking crazy and it's not like we've all been conditioned that way. And it's like, we can all thrive. We can all.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Thrive and look amazing and be amazing and be kind and root for each other. There's enough room. I I just like that sort of mindset of like there's not enough for everyone is like the scarcity mindset is very and and and I think there was an element of that on the show because realistically, like there were magazine covers. They were only choosing one. And it's that's just human nature. It wasn't that I didn't want to root for them. I did. I love them. I still love them to this day. Like I'm so proud that we maintained a level of like, it felt like a family, you know? You don't always vibe with certain family members, but like your family, right?

• 22:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  But God, and I see all these like new shows with young women and I'm I I just I'm like, I know, I know what it probably feels like.

• 23:05Alex Cooper?

  Right. You were there.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:07Alex Cooper?

  When you.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  But it's also that's high school too, you know?

• 23:09Alex Cooper?

  No, that's what.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  That was my high school.

• 23:11Alex Cooper?

  It's so crazy. I it gets I get frustrated when I'm not saying people have to be fighting, but like you can tell it's like there's no fucking way on every cast that everyone gets along. Like, sure, we can glamorize like, but we loved our show. It's our favorite show. It's like, babe, if you put five, six, seven girls in a fucking room, like not everyone's gonna get along.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think some of the gals really did connect and bond in a big way and I and I.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  I've always found it tricky to connect with people because I I like to connect I like. This is why we're vibing because we're talking about like the things I love to talk about and I I just always. Not only on that show, I've found it trickier to find the people that I want to connect with and so. I would kind of just sit in my little corner and like live in my own world and. Tell myself, you know, that I was misunderstood, but in reality, it's just. Certain people connect and certain people don't connect, but I did feel kind of a pressure pressure because I remember sometimes reading online that. The fans of the show. Would notice that I wasn't in pictures with certain people and I think that's where these rumors started of like.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  They don't like Lucy or and it really wasn't that it was just like. I was marching to the beat of my own drum and I didn't and I knew. I knew the perception of it and I maybe knew how it was coming across, but I also knew that. I wasn't gonna force.

• 24:43Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Something to happen.

• 24:47Alex Cooper?

  Well, it's it's very. Similar to what you described as your childhood like.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:53Alex Cooper?

  You're sitting there feeling misunderstood, you're very in your own head, you're alone, you're emotional. But you're like kind of a loner, you're like I had maybe like not as many friends and I was kind of like introverted. That doesn't just fucking change because you get on a cool set with a bunch of cool chicks and you're like, oh, my God, we're all famous now like. You're still the same Lucy in Tennessee, so it's like. That I I appreciate you saying that because I do think a lot of times people are like. Why can't I be a certain way, especially when you're in a room with women, maybe that are more outgoing or more clicky and connecting. That's just fucking life.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  I think that was it. Yeah, I think I've had to accept that I just so desperately when I was younger, I wanted to be have a. It wasn't even that I wanted to look differently, I wanted to have a different personality. I was like. Damn it, why am I not more fun? I always felt like boring and I felt.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Like I didn't have a lot to say. I definitely because I didn't graduate high school was like, oh, well, I'm not smart. People aren't gonna listen to me. I had built like all of these narratives in my head. Where I was like, this is the truth. I'm gonna stand by it. Which is why, which I'm sure we'll talk about, which is why your girl wanted to drink, right? Because I could be fun. I could be sexy. I could be hysterical. I could be a bitch. I could be whatever I wanted to be. And my brain shut off. But like undoing all of these narratives that I believed and stood by for so long. Has been the biggest challenge of my life. Harder than giving up drinking. Harder than my career. It's like actually rewiring my brain into believing like, no, I am smart. I do have shit.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  That's important that I wanna say.

• 26:33Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Um, I'm worthy. I am more than the way I look. Like all of these things that we tell ourselves and. I love it. Now I love like. I have, I have an addictive personality, but now I'm like driven by this need to, okay, I wanna know more about myself. I wanna do more. I wanna be better. I wanna.

• 26:55Alex Cooper?

  Understand.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Learn all I can learn.

• 26:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. No, I, I get what you're saying about like, which is so hard. And again, I think a lot of women can relate to that of like having something in your head that you believe about yourself. And if you asked your friend or your family member, they'd be like, what are you talking about?

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:12Alex Cooper?

  We, no, like we, you're so smart or you're so talented or you're so this. What are you talking, it's like we are our own worst enemy and it goes down too far into a like a dark hole. Like it is just you own it and you believe it. And it's like, how do you even begin to like unravel that? Cause you have to live your day to day life. You're still going on with your job and your interactions.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  And that's what you're broadcasting to the world energetically. I would make myself feel very small and that my ideas didn't matter because if I walked into a room. Everyone else's ideas were more important than mine. And it had to, I think it had to do with this, this idea of not feeling.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Smart or feeling like people didn't care?

• 27:52Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay. Let's talk about, you have talked about your journey with sobriety before, and I kind of want to just, I've never talked about alcoholism on Call Her Daddy. I've never talked about struggling with alcohol. I've never talked about-

• 28:06Speaker 01

  I'm the first. I'm the sober cherry popper.

• 28:10Alex Cooper?

  You are popping it right now, Lucy.

• 28:30Alex Cooper?

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• 29:12Alex Cooper?

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• 29:58Alex Cooper?

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• 30:42Alex Cooper?

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• 31:19Speaker 01

  In the womb.

• 31:20Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm just kidding. My mother gave me a little taste of tequila.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Okay, the first time ever that I tried alcohol?

• 31:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, or like maybe when you started drinking.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I will say the first time I ever had alcohol, I think it's important to talk about because I was probably 12, 13, and I was in Florida on a vacation. I was like wearing a crop top halter top thing. For some reason, I remember the shirt I was wearing and we drank green apple pucker, which is a chaser. Anyway, I remember my very first experience with alcohol was exactly how it was when it ended. I blacked out at 12, blacked out at 12 years old. I couldn't, I don't remember what happened. I got very sick. I threw up and I remember being so distraught when I realized what had happened. And I was like, oh my God, my mom is going to be so disappointed in me like this is, I

• 32:14Speaker 01

  feel so scared.

• 32:16Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  And that's at 12. So I didn't start regular, of course I drank here and there.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  From twelve to eighteen, but um, I remember shame every experience after drinking because my drinking was never normal.

• 32:33Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  I never drank normally. And I mean, literally every time I drank, I I wasn't always sloppy blacking out.

• 32:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  A lot of the time I was, but I was drinking, it was very clear I was drinking to escape something, even at a young age. Um, and so I I would say around like age eighteen, when my mom moved back to Tennessee is when it was happening a lot.

• 32:58Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  But but I also, you're like a teenager. I didn't realize I had a problem.

• 33:02Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Until my early twenties, when I'm like, why do I still want to drink after a night out? Like, why? Why can't I just have two glasses of wine? Why am I thinking about drinking all the time? Why do I feel so uncomfortable if I'm not drinking when I'm out? It's like all these questions and I uh, I don't know if I ever talked about this before. This might be a first. I went to rehab when I was twenty three. I don't even think anyone on the show knew. And it was my choice, too. It that was like a very pivotal moment in my life. I like wasn't ready to give up drinking, which is why I didn't get sober until I was thirty two, but um,

• 33:48Speaker 01

  there was like deep fear of of what would happen if I continued acting this way from for a very long time. And when I tell you I've tried, I had tried so many different things. Rehab, outpatient, inpatient, trauma center, therapy, medication.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  You name it. And I, and there was always like a a very strong desire to want to stop. But I think just being, I don't know how I would have gotten sober in my twenties in L A on a being success, like I I, which is why I have so much empathy for people in the media that are struggling. Cause I was like, so fucking hard.

• 34:33Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Um, and I, you know, I I just was in this very sad cycle for all of my twenties.

• 34:45Alex Cooper?

  Can I, okay.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:46Alex Cooper?

  First of all, thank you for sharing that.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:48Alex Cooper?

  Cause again, it almost goes back to like.

• 34:52Alex Cooper?

  There's like the career that you want to uphold and you want to like be remembered for something great and that doesn't mean you can't also be open about the struggles you were going through, but I do think it's difficult for people to be like, am I allowed to like, should I say this about myself? Like, will people want to work with me? Like, should I even like, I can imagine that goes through your head because I know people don't open up probably for that fucking reason.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  There was no way in hell I was gonna openly talk about this. I was so deeply ashamed of myself and my choices and the person I was when I drank.

• 35:33Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  There was no, it, it is actually mind blowing. Like, if you would have told me at that age, you know, 10 years from now, you're gonna be doing a podcast and you're gonna be talking about being sober and alcoholism, I would have said, you are fucking insane. No, because these things I'm talking about, I'm only able to speak about them because I have actively worked through and let go of the shame.

• 36:00Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  That was so ingrained in who I was. I, I don't feel like I, and I don't really blame anyone for not helping. You know, the people in my inner circle definitely knew my friends, my family, my suite manager, but no one on the show really knew because I didn't talk about it. And so I think there was a lot of maybe concern from people. And people also are like, how did you maintain a job? Well, my drinking was very, it was binge drinking, so I wasn't drinking every day, but when I would drink.

• 36:34Alex Cooper?

  You would drink.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  She was like, bye.

• 36:36Alex Cooper?

  That's what I was gonna say. Can you take me to like, what would a typical night or day of drinking be like for you back then?

• 36:43Speaker 01

  So it usually would start, and I was, because I, because my job was very important to me, like I

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I think maybe only, I never let it come interfere with that because like, I knew if I lost that, I would not be okay.

• 37:00Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Um, it doesn't mean it didn't seep through the cracks sometimes because like, yeah, I did show up to work hungover sometimes. Yeah, I did. I can look at pictures of my eyes and I'm like, oh, you hungover bitch.

• 37:15Alex Cooper?

  I know what you were up to last night.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so I think it was maybe clear to, to people.

• 37:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  People aren't dumb. That's the thing about like addicts, alcoholics, you think you're being so secretive.

• 37:26Alex Cooper?

  So.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  And I can, I feel it in a room. I can, I know. I know and like in a non judgy way, I'm just like, oh, I think they're struggling. You know, and.

• 37:38Alex Cooper?

  Isn't that so interesting? And then you probably walked in being like, no one knows.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  No one knows.

• 37:42Alex Cooper?

  And maybe they're like,

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:44Alex Cooper?

  Lucy, you reek. Or like Lucy, you like.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Eyes are bloodshot or did you sleep? But okay, a, a night of.

• 37:52Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  You know, it kind of looked, that, that was a scary thing is it was a wild card and I was always like, well, this could be a really fun, because some nights don't, I, I also like, in hindsight, I look back, I had some great memories drinking. Super fun. But you never knew what you were gonna get. So some nights would be, you know,

• 38:14Speaker 01

  great. I'd be home at a decent hour. I'd, you know, chug some water before bed and take some Advil and I'd wake up and feel fine. Or it would be a night that turned into a Saturday that turned into a Sunday where I'm like,

• 38:29Speaker 01

  why are there drugs on the table? Like, who are these people? Why are these people in my house? Like, it would just be all over the place.

• 38:37Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  And, and I think I was also attracting people in my life that were also really struggling. And I think one thing, and also I just think that anyone who's listening to this, I get really emotional. Lucy, don't cry. I cry all the time.

• 38:54Alex Cooper?

  You can cry.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  I just think something that really.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Something that really I I struggled with a lot growing up is like I remember people people some people I worked with some people in my friend group that just thought I was a wild child and thought I'd just like to party and like ooh it's gonna be or like people wouldn't invite me places because they knew how it would get and I just wanna say that anyone who behaves that way it's clearly coming from a place of pain

• 39:35Speaker 01

  and so anyone who may or may not be struggling with this like I think it's so important and what's really helped me is like you have to find the people who get it find people who understand and that you can connect with because you're not fucking alone in that feeling and like I think I felt that for so much of my life I was like it was the misunderstood thing right and then it was like actually being reflected back to me because I was being misunderstood because I was like I don't just like to chug tequila or I did but like but I but I'm also like in pain and I also remember vividly I will not name names but I remember vividly hearing someone who was in kind of my inner circle at the time saying god sober people are so boring

• 40:20Speaker 01

  and I was like you know what sober people at the time I was like sober people are boring am I boring? and I also want to say to anyone who might be struggling I remember Miley Cyrus said one time she's like there you can say a lot of things about me too it was like because I think she's she was talking about sobriety she was like but I am not boring I find some of the most interesting complex beautiful human beings that I know struggle in this way

• 40:51Speaker 01

  And that is your gift? Don't let anyone ever tell you. Like your mistakes don't define you, like your sensitivity, because I find that a lot of sensitive people turn to alcohol, turn to drugs, because you're trying to numb down your gifts. Oh, can you tell I could talk about this all the time?

• 41:08Alex Cooper?

  No, it's really powerful, because I, number one, I feel really. I have seen it too, like I've had people in my life that I'm like, oh my god, like I know you're struggling, but it is hard to be with someone that is blacking out, that is a liability, like it's difficult.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  It's not cute, I'm not gonna lie, like, it's hard.

• 41:28Alex Cooper?

  But it's, it's obvious they're struggling, and I think that's the thing that, you're right, people don't have any fucking grace or time for it in moments, and I think you were clearly struggling, I guess. You kind of having this like binge moment, and then being able to get to work, like, I relate a lot, and you don't even have to be someone that like struggles so much with alcohol to the point where like, I've been in moments in my life where like staying out late and partying, nothing ever good comes from it, and I remember like,

• 42:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:02Alex Cooper?

  I remember the, the moments in, when I was living in New York, I'd gone through a really bad breakup, and I was really struggling with like party culture, just felt like I wanted to be a part of it, because I felt like I could. I don't know, I felt like I, I felt really alone at that point in my life, I didn't, my friends weren't in the city, I, I was like, I have no one, and so I found this group of people that were always partying. Drugs, alcohol.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  And you bond over that, there is like a, there's, there should be a whole conversation about the people you bond with.

• 42:32Alex Cooper?

  When you're partying, yeah, and so I remember like, I had never, I had never done drugs, I, because I'd played soccer my whole life, like I'd never done that, and I remember getting into a phase in New York where like I tried drugs, and like, I would be at an after-party, and there were drugs on the table, and I, and it was also because I'm drinking, if I was sober, I'm not doing the drugs.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  I'm the same way.

• 42:52Alex Cooper?

  Right? But all of a sudden, you find yourself, and I wonder if, if you're comfortable talking about that, of like, how you can also slip into like, when you're drunk.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Anything goes, baby.

• 43:01Alex Cooper?

  And.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 43:03Alex Cooper?

  You're like, is that cocaine? Is that a cigarette? Is that a, what are we doing?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  What is, yeah, and what is, who, who is that?

• 43:10Alex Cooper?

  Who is that? And you have no idea where it even came from.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 43:13Alex Cooper?

  And you're not gonna be smart, you're just gonna take it.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Girl, I.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  It's so interesting cuz I.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Yes, just what you said, like I would have never, I would have never thought to do cocaine if I weren't drinking, but, but I think. Alcohol was just this gateway into being whoever I wanted to be. I didn't have to. Be sweet. I could be sloppy and yeah, I could do cocaine if I wanted to. You know what? I could sleep with that guy if I wanted to and maybe his friend, you know, it's like, not that I'm, you know, I, I look back and I have compassion. So I was like, oh babe, but, but it was just. I didn't have an outlet in my regular, normal life to like, release this wild side and release this bad side. Because ultimately, like, I still have those elements to me.

• 44:04Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  That doesn't go away. Your shadow side is fucking cool. I, I think. And so I've had to learn how to be friends with these things that. Brought me shame and that people, and the other thing was like, I knew people were talking shit about me. I knew people were, were not even spreading rumors. It was the truth. And I just tried to cover it up for so long and.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  And that even fueled more drinking. So it was like, how do I get out of this cycle? It's gonna kill me.

• 44:39Alex Cooper?

  Literally.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Well.

• 44:41Alex Cooper?

  Did you ever have like a? Moment where it was like you're in the hospital and you wake up?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, you know, I was never. I never wanted to die, but like the way I was acting, sometimes I'm like, wow, it's a. I would wake up and be like, well, it's kind of a miracle. I'm here. Um, I did have moments where I'd, I would have to go to the hospital and like get IVs. I. Yeah, you know, it got, it got really dark. It got, I'm not even gonna lie. It, it got really dark. I was very sad. I was very scared. I think ultimately I was like. Okay, well, we have some options when I, when I got, I'm, I'll be sober. I'm almost two years sober. Thank you. And, and it feels great. Like I feel so stoked to be able to talk about these things and to know that.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  I'm good like and I think

• 45:37Speaker 01

  there are so many times in my career where I'd wanted to talk about it, but I knew I didn't have a grip on it. And and the thing is like I this is something I do, I work on every day. I choose myself every moment of every day because I have to because I want to be here. And I want to live a full life.

• 45:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Um, but when I decided to get sober at thirty two.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  I was like, okay, we have some options. I can keep doing what I've been doing for the last fifteen years. Um, there's the risk of something really bad happening.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Or we can get sober and we can actually do it because I would always kind of half ass do it.

• 46:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And I truly, there's no other way to say it other than

• 46:27Speaker 01

  it was like a spiritual intervention, like I literally felt the presence of God like actually telling me we're not, you don't have another chance, like I truly felt it in my bones that like this is it.

• 46:42Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  What are we gonna do with it? And I remember I was flying back from Austin after a whirlwind New Year's Eve trip. Like shaking, I was eating a gross ham sandwich, like trying to get food in my stomach. Cause I hadn't eaten in like two days. I have my dog in my lap. I was like, okay. We're gonna do it. We're gonna do this. And then I ended up, the week I got sober, I actually got COVID too. And I think without that, I would have made excuses. I think because I was forced to stay home. I was forced to call these certain people, connect with certain people. Put myself in these rooms and groups of people that truly saved my life.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  I think without having COVID, I'm I might not have gotten sober or committed to it and I I don't know, man, like I feel so strong in my path right now and I.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  I don't know, every day is changes like I I was just traveling internationally and like air airports and airplanes are are always make me a little edgy. I'm like cuz that's where I loved to drink, put me in a lounge, put me I was like, I'm thirty thousand feet away from everyone that drives me crazy, you know? So, so it's it's really just like, okay, being gentle with myself and really having a plan of okay, I know I'm gonna be on a couple of planes coming up. How are we gonna take care of myself?

• 48:12Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Being sober is one hundred percent the best thing I've ever done for myself. It does not mean that it's easy. I think I have talked about it publicly and I think it's been portrayed as like, life is great, life is amazing. Has it made my life better? One hundred million percent. But it's deeply uncomfortable and is deeply painful, but it is so worth it.

• 48:35Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Dude, yeah, that's what I think is you're so right. It's like when you come out and say like, I'm sober. Everyone's like, oh, my god, she has it together.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:45Alex Cooper?

  Like, she's great. And you're like, this is something that you have to wake up every day and make the choice to not have a drink.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  To not have a drink and it's and it's made me realize like how much I was escaping in other ways too, like your girl will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable feeling.

• 49:00Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Like, let's go, I'm on Amazon, like, I do need this new blender. I already have ten blender. You know what I'm saying? Uh, spend money, men, like, I have

• 49:13Speaker 01

  avoided my shit for a long time by being with people I didn't really wanna be with, just like, complete avoidance.

• 49:21Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about that for a minute? Because something that really hit me and I oh, this is like so dark, but I remember

• 49:29Speaker 01

  This is, I've never loved you more.

• 49:31Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast, but I was in this relationship where I was in it for the wrong reasons. It was so off, like, just

• 49:46Alex Cooper?

  In ways like emotionally abusive and just like really not healthy. And I was staying for the wrong reasons, but I remember there would be nights. That I knew he would want to have sex. And I did not want to have sex with him.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:03Alex Cooper?

  So before he would come home, I would go into the kitchen and take shots by myself. And I would drink so that I could have sex with him.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Alex Cooper?

  And what's so crazy in that moment is like, I knew like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, why am I hiding quickly drinking than going and brushing my teeth so he doesn't know? So that I'm fucked up, so that I can have sex with this person like?

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:27Alex Cooper?

  So fucking sad, but I'm, and I'm thinking about you and I'm like, can you talk to me a little bit about like? This sexual aspect of being drunk or being on drugs while you're drunk and like being in this situation, which is like? Pretty unsafe, like?

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:45Alex Cooper?

  What sexual situations did you get yourself into that like you'd wake up and be like?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. I, and this is definitely, you know, I've, I've talked about. My sobriety story a little, but I've never talked about.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  That element of it. And I think it's a really important thing to talk about because I think a lot of people can relate to that, whether you're an alcoholic or not.

• 51:07Alex Cooper?

  Totally.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And also like being sober and dating and being sexual was like a whole new thing I had to learn because. A lot of my, most of my relationships and my, the people I had slept with, like I was always fucked up. I, and I felt so deeply uncomfortable in my body and in my skin and. Whether you struggle or not, when you drink, you automatically feel a little bit sexier. You're like, I look amazing.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  At least I would have like a, a, a 10 minute window where I was like, we've got it together and then the dark thoughts would roll in. But, I mean, there's definitely been.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I think that's where some of my shame still lies is in.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  The people I've allowed to.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  The people I've allowed myself to be with and I know for certain I've.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Potentially, I don't even know if I want to say that. I, I actually know, I maybe I've been taken advantage of. Not to say that these people.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  No, I'm not making excuses for people. I've been taken advantage of. Uh, yes, I was the person drinking, but I, there are certain things I don't quite remember.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  But then it's also, yeah, so I've slept with people I regret sleeping with. You know?

• 52:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  But.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  I also think like in the relationships I was in.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  I really relate to what you're saying about like needing to drink to be physical. And for me, it wasn't like I wasn't attracted to these men. I, I, I was, but I was so uncomfortable with myself or their perception of me that it was easier to be in a different state of mind when being physical. I have always. I've always considered myself a sexual person. And I always had shame about that until recently. I think that I think it's so strange to me that we're given the gift of sex. Like it's a beautiful. What? Like, what do you mean?

• 53:24Alex Cooper?

  Amazing. Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Most amazing thing in the world. And we obviously live in a society that shames us for that. When ultimately

• 53:33Speaker 01

  that's the kind of the thing that connects us all, right? But.

• 53:37Alex Cooper?

  I think something that is difficult when you, and I know you're like still working on like unpacking everything that happened, but and that's I'm like, oh, like we need, we do as women especially need to get better. Like you sitting here and just not being able to fully say and then like you were taken advantage of.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. It, it's so interesting how my brain will try to make excuses for

• 54:05Speaker 01

  for things and

• 54:09Speaker 01

  is it right or wrong? I don't, I, I don't know, but it happened and I think

• 54:17Speaker 01

  basically what I'm trying to say is like, I don't think these people are bad people.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  It's just so I I'm I'm only pausing because I've actually never talked about this element of it before.

• 54:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  And not even really with my therapist. This is just like a new top. This is like a new.

• 54:37Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Remember I was talking about the trunk and like the emotional, I think, wow, we'll be doing a lot of journaling tonight, Alex.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  No, it's good. It's good. I think.

• 54:48Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate you talking about it.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  As women and as men, like there is so much shame attached to the type of people we've been with. Were we fucked up? Like what actually did happen? Was it my fault? Should I have actually, you know?

• 55:07Speaker 01

  God, we just live in a world where we're just like all traumatized people traumatizing people.

• 55:12Alex Cooper?

  Dude, it's well, what I appreciate about you is like, there's a level of like survival you have to get to where you're like, you have to move on. You have to look back at a point of your life and be like, whoa, I'm so happy. I'm like not doing those certain things to myself anymore. But then there's also a moment where you have to be like, our body remembers things.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Have you read that book, The Body Keeps Score? I haven't read it, but.

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

  It's fucking crazy. I'm sure there are moments, I have had them in my twenties where I woke up and this is so sad. I remember waking up and being like, did I have sex last night? And actually physically like trying to like feel in my vagina, like, did I have sex?

• 55:56Speaker 01

  I know. I I have, I can't even tell you.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  I can't even tell you how many times I've been like, huh? And then I'd make excuses. I'd be like, well, I've kind of always wanted to sleep with him, so I guess it's okay. Or hmm, or you know, just like making excuses or but also like I for so much of my life, I found I would fill this like empty well within myself with validation from men. So I, I was like, well, if I, if I'm if I sleep with them, like I get this validation and and then I'm okay. And then I feel worthy for a week and then I'm, then I need to do it again and.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  I don't know, it was just a habit I picked up very, very early on of like if I got the attention from men. I I was okay to show up in the world.

• 56:51Alex Cooper?

  Yep, even I think something that's really relatable, I bet a lot of people are going to connect with also is like you talked about how when you would drink. You would have this. You would become the person you thought you wanted to be. You're outgoing, you're loud, I can be sassy, I can fuck, like I can be hot, like you can do all these things and I. I know people in my life that are like, I'm. Introverted and I'm a little anxious or I'm shy and having a couple of drinks like I think brings me out of my shell and I'm able, but it's like. Then there's that line where it's like. You shouldn't need anything to like that is a substance like that to make you feel like you can be yourself because we're not ourselves when we're drinking.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:32Alex Cooper?

  But then sexually also, all of us are gonna feel way more free having sex if we're fucked up on something.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Alex Cooper?

  But it's like. You don't actually know in you don't feel in tune with your fucking body.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  I'm even willing to say that. Sex drunk is not enjoyable. Sex with strangers is not enjoyable.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Point blank. It's just the truth. Maybe. And that's just my experience, but and that's why like the last two years of, I mean, I was like celibate for a lot of it, but but but I think like. Feeling so comfortable in my skin and like learning to love my body in new ways, like being sexual. Like it's still a little uncomfortable.

• 58:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  For me, I'm learning how. To be really present and um. You know, and choosing the people I want to be intimate with and. Not everyone deserves to touch your body, you know?

• 58:36Alex Cooper?

  Facts, and like you can't make that decision as easily when you are fucked up.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  No, I'm like, everyone can touch your body.

• 58:43Alex Cooper?

  They're like, let's go.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Girl, guy, all?

• 58:46Alex Cooper?

  Let's go. I just appreciate you going there with me and us unpacking the themes of not just being like, oh, that's interesting, next, like.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's a testament to you. You're so good at what you do and you really create. With all of your guests, like, you know the right questions to ask, but you do it all with like a very.

• 59:07Alex Cooper?

  Well, cause it's like, it's your life. Like when people are like, so, talk to me about your fucking drinking problem. You're like, okay.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  So, here you are, slut.

• 59:14Alex Cooper?

  Right, literally. Like, who'd you fuck, whore? You're like, oh my god. People have said shit to me about like, craziest shit. I'm like, that's rude, thank you.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:24Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  No, this is great. Okay, relationships.

• 59:27Alex Cooper?

  Your relationships, yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  I had many relationships. I, I don't think I, I've not had a relationship really since I've been sober. I've dated, but I, but throughout all the, you know, teenager to, to now. Like, my last long-term committed relationship was like six years ago. And it ended, I mean, we were very, we were not compatible with each other at all, but um, it ended because of my behavior and like, a lack of him not really understanding and not knowing how to be there for me. We're now, him and I are now friends and it's, it's nice to, god, it's the best feeling to like reconnect with people in a different place in your life.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  And I'm finding that's happening a lot to me lately. Like, people I've had embarrassing or shameful experiences with, like, I've run into them on the street. There was someone I ran into in Vancouver on the street and it was someone, something happened and I didn't really remember what had happened. It was a night. And I had always wanted to apologize.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  And I randomly ran into him in Vancouver. And not only did I get to apologize, he was like, Lucy, nothing happened. So I had like built, so in my life, I've like built these things up in my head. All I say all of that because it's just interesting. The universe is like, we're gonna give you an opportunity to hold yourself accountable and apologize. And it's like the best thing to be clear eyed and feeling good and and to get to reconnect with people.

• 1:01:00Alex Cooper?

  When you were in these type of relationships, did a lot of your partners also drank heavily? Or were you hiding it?

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  So my very first boyfriend ever that I had for three and a half years when I was a teenager.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  I remember him telling me I had a drinking problem. My boyfriend after that, and he wasn't really a drinker. Uh, my next boyfriend after that. He also was like, you, this is worrisome. I'm like, I'm breaking up with you. Bye. Me problems. You're the problem.

• 1:01:34Alex Cooper?

  You're the problem.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Bye babe.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Cut to you were right. You were right. My boyfriend after that, God, we were, it was the most passionate relationship of my life and the most toxic. He was a drug addict. He was an alcoholic. I learned habits from him. We were a perfect storm.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  But there's also a lot of love there. That was also um, a deeply scary time in my life. I was like, oh.

• 1:02:05Alex Cooper?

  Can you share some of those habits?

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Uh, day drinking, drinking a bottle of wine before bed every night. He uh, at that point I had never done a drug and that was like when I was like, oh, I kind of like how that feels. Um, yeah, it was a lot of just self neglect and it was like the day drinking thing. That was when I was like, oh, you can drink the day after? Huh? I never really thought about that. But but also, you know, those types of relationships are the most exciting. Like the most passionate, like whoa.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Like I, this person, I, I think, I'm like, if I were ever to be in a room with him now, it's still one of those people where I would be so, I'm equal parts terrified of him and attract, like deeply attracted to him.

• 1:02:57Alex Cooper?

  So crazy. I had one of those where it was like, he was definitely into drugs. And there's like a thrill element of like, the, the instability, like this person does not have their shit together. And it's like, every day is fucking different. And it's this like, exciting rush. And it's also what you don't realize is it's like uncomfortable fear that like you are thinking is like attraction, but you're also like, this is, you're my body telling me like, I shouldn't be doing this.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's, it's exactly that. Like my nervous system, the whole time I was with him was like, I did not regulate my nervous system for a full year, but I also loved that because I told you I lo- loved chaos.

• 1:03:56Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait, where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen.

• 1:04:35Alex Cooper?

  We stayed in, we cooked dinner together and you know, daddy gaining my cooking skills, they have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy, but it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely. new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days, October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out, or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip

• 1:05:19Alex Cooper?

  and have all the snacks and essentials delivered after you arrive. My favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to say. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them. But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life.

• 1:06:03Alex Cooper?

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• 1:06:48Alex Cooper?

  You don't have to answer this, but I'm just thinking again, because we're kind of tying things. Like, when you look at your life, you, I think sometimes in a positive way, you can be like, oh, that helps it make more sense. But like, a lot of how we are is because of our family. Like, does anyone in your family struggle with alcohol also?

• 1:07:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Alex Cooper?

  I mean, it's, it's, I think it's just helpful to say, cause sometimes people feel really fucking alone and it's like, girl, you're not alone. This isn't, also, I don't know if it helps to be like, it's not your fault. This is like a genetic thing that like,

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Alex Cooper?

  That's

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Alex Cooper?

  Life.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  But it's also interesting to me that, you know, my sister doesn't struggle with alcohol, but we grew up in the same home. Obviously, our lives are very different, but it's just interesting how people latch on to something. And I, I think if I would have found cocaine at sixteen, that would have been my thing, but alcohol

• 1:07:48Alex Cooper?

  Was your thing?

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  That was my, my bestie for a long time.

• 1:07:51Alex Cooper?

  When you said that you went to rehab, when you got back, talk to me about like reintegrating after rehab and then like, when did you have another drink?

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Laughing, cause

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  I, so before I went into rehab, I was talking to this guy that I was obsessed with. I stayed in rehab. I got out. The day I got home, he flew in to see me. I picked him up and they, he asked me to stop at a liquor store for him.

• 1:08:18Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  And I remember him getting a bottle of Jack Daniels. And mind you, I still didn't drink for like three months after that. So I was like, what? Talk about not integrating.

• 1:08:27Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  Talk about, I just had this like spiritual amazing experience and this guy who, that was, that, that in itself is, was my life for so long, putting everyone else on a pedestal for so long. I'm like, why am I taking this guy? Kissing him and he tastes like Jack Daniels. Just, but I'm just laughing, cause that was my first memory of getting out of rehab.

• 1:08:52Alex Cooper?

  Solid.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Alex Cooper?

  Damn.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, crazy.

• 1:08:55Alex Cooper?

  And then when did you relapse? Three months after?

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was always typically, that it was like three months after I went to Vegas for a, of course, I relapsed, relapsed in Vegas, um, for a, a word show. Because what would happen was I'd, I'd be sober for a long time and think, hmm, you know what? I think I have a, I think I have a really good grip on my alcoholism now and I think if I just have rosé, I think I'm gonna be fine. And you know what? I'm gonna have a rosé and a water and then maybe I'll have like a little Adderall just like bring me back down and Like the, the, the one thing about like alcoholics that I love is like the rules that we, you know, only beer, only wine, only on weekends, only every other week.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, I'd, I'd get stuck in the cycle of I'd be sober for a month or two and then I'd relapse, then a week, then I'd relapse and I was like a chronic relapsers. Yeah.

• 1:09:54Alex Cooper?

  When you talked about that, like New Year's moment, when you got on the plane, was there something that happened that was like rock bottom?

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  I mean, in hindsight, like a lot of things that happened in my life would have been labeled as worse, but I think I was at a point in my life for this New Year's trip where I knew, uh, I knew my drinking career was coming to an end. And I almost, I think subconsciously I knew that this New Year's was gonna be the last hurrah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  And it certainly was. But I think it was so scary to start drinking one night to wake up.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Like a day and a half later.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  And have so much blank memory and be like, and I remember asking my friend, I was like, what are we doing tonight for New Year's Eve? And he was like, it's the first. And I was like, what do you mean? I was like, wh- what do you mean? What do you mean? There's a whole day of my life I don't remember. And like, blacking out was a very normal thing for me, here and there, whatever.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  But I'll never, I still, like, I have a physical reaction to hearing him say it was the first and I was just like, this can't be my life. This can't be my life. I refuse to let this be my life anymore. And I was so sad. I, and like, it was just more like, and nothing really,

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  you know, I don't even know if I left the hotel room, like nothing technically bad happened, but it was just that feeling of.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  How did I get here? I have everything I could ever want.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna blow it all. And it's a miracle that I didn't.

• 1:11:52Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  I think I did. I fucked up friendships. I fucked up relationships. I hurt my family. I s- you know, I did lose out on career opportunities, but like,

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  I tr- talk about guardian angels. Like, talk about knowing I'm supposed to be here.

• 1:12:10Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  And so, you know, I so, whatever happened in Austin, like, something resonated. It was this feeling of like, maybe let's do s- maybe let's try it a different way. Uh, and I did. I'm so proud. I'm so proud that I did that. Um.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, and I often don't sit back and relish in the like, whoa babe, like, you did it.

• 1:12:42Alex Cooper?

  You did it. I, thank you for sharing that. I literally got chills because it's like, we, we as humans are just judgmental. Like, we either compare ourselves, but like, or we'll judge people because it's actually an insecurity of ours, or we'll judge because we don't understand something. I appreciate you sharing all this because it's so fucking hard to talk about something that you have any amount of shame over and also something that like you've, as much as maybe people in your life have talked to you about it, or told you, or you've broken up with boyfriends about it, like, it's on you. Like, it's I, and, and also you've dealt with this alone.

• 1:13:27Alex Cooper?

  So it's like, you were going through this alone, because when you woke up, you were alone. Sure, even if there was a body next to you that you're like, what are you doing here? Like, you're alone. And so it's on you to find your way out of it. That's fucking hard.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  But that is the key to life is like, the second you start taking accountability of, I'll just say it from my point of view. The second I was like, okay, why am I in this weird fucking hotel room? A day and a half later, why am I sad? Why am I angry? It's, I have to take accountability of my life.

• 1:14:02Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  No one else is gonna save me. And I can't keep blaming other people for my own shit. It doesn't mean people can't help me, but ultimately, all you have is yourself, like you have to fight and advocate for yourself.

• 1:14:17Alex Cooper?

  I just love that we're talking about that. It's like, even if people are listening and it's like, it's not alcohol. It's just like your life, whether you're unhappy, wherever the fuck you are, if you're unhappy about something like it really is, it sounds so fucking simple, but it's hard not to look around and try to blame others or blame your circumstances. It's like there is something so powerful about you sitting on that plane ride and just being like, yeah, it's gotta end. Yeah, it's gotta change. Yeah. And I think that's fucking amazing that you're sitting here today and you clearly now are like, again, like we said, it's not easy. It's never gonna be easy.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  No, but life is not easy and it's not supposed to be easy. That is what we signed up for as human beings. Being a human is hard. It's hard to navigate. Yeah, we all numb out in some way. We all try to escape. But there's something beautiful about not. What if we didn't? What if we didn't? What if we were just uncomfortable? We'll get through it.

• 1:15:14Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about, obviously, like recovery is not linear, like it's an ongoing process. In these past two years, trying essentially like you're finding a new version of yourself because for so long, like you were going off of like certain habits and routines and a lifestyle and now it's all different. Can you talk to me about like how it's been, things that you've struggled with, things that you're like loving about yourself?

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, certainly not linear and there is no right or wrong way to heal. You know, there's so much advice out there. There's so much on the internet of like how to heal and and I think that's great. And I think that's when the internet is really beautiful. But I think ultimately, like the only person that's gonna know what feels good in your body and your mind is yourself. So for me, it's like I've kinda had to like.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Block out a lot of the noise and really get quiet with myself and like really figure out what actually makes me feel good. Cause I had to have a moment where I was like, does my career make me feel good? Luckily it does. Luckily, cause god, that would have been a shit show. It's like I'm sober and I'm.

• 1:16:29Alex Cooper?

  Changing careers.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  I'm, yeah, who knows? What would I have done? What would I have done? But I, um, you know, just like, yeah, getting crystal clear on like the friendship. For me, it's like, when you heal, you expect other people to heal with you, but like, you're on a different path, you're on a different journey. And so certain things don't fit your life anymore. And so obviously like the places I was going and day to day, that shifted a little. Um, but people won't prepare you that like some friendships don't, won't be the same. That's the hardest thing is like, we talk about romantic breakups all the time, but like friendship breakups are hard.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  And so I've had to deal with that a little bit and, um, family dynamics have shifted. Boundaries.

• 1:17:18Alex Cooper?

  Girl.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Boundaries, boundaries. You know, I was talking about being at peace and how that felt uncomfortable. That's really what a lot of what my life has looked like. It's like, okay, am I, am I bored or is this just really nice? And like being okay in stillness and not needing to fill my days with stuff just to avoid. Because what I, what I found when I was newly sober was, okay, I'm going to work out three times a day. I'm gonna, you know, read a book, I'm going to, whatever. It's like, well, why am I filling my days with all of these things? What if I just didn't?

• 1:17:56Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  What if I just didn't? And so it's like, I'm in this interesting place now where my relationship to my body and to food and to exercise has, is like the next thing for me to work on. I think just like being really gentle with all of that. I think that, not to like go back all into this, but I think the eating disorder fueled the alcoholism and they kind of fueled each other. And so like now that I'm sober, it's like, okay, now let's like really unpack.

• 1:18:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  This.

• 1:18:44Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches,

• 1:19:29Alex Cooper?

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• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  You know, my life is very simple. It is like, okay. I'm just a simple girl. I'm a simple gal from Tennessee. But you know. No, but what I mean by that is I find joy in simple moments. I want to simplify my life. I'm trying to simplify my life. My circle is small.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  I spend a lot of time with my dogs. I am on this whole... This will be for when I come back for part two of the podcast. We'll talk about spirituality because I do want to say that the spirituality element is what keeps me going. And it's brought a lot of clarity to my life of like, oh, but why am I really here? What is my purpose? How can I help leave the world a better place? So it's like my priorities have really shifted into... broader scale, I guess. Um, and I think that that was maybe why I was also drinking is because I felt like I didn't have a purpose.

• 1:20:47Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. I love that you just said, um, you know, like, it's okay. Like, is it boredom or is it just like you're just be still. And I feel like there's so many people that can relate to that moment where you're like trying so hard to just keep moving and keep going and keep doing and going here, here, here, here. And it's like when you're uncomfortable in silence and being alone with yourself, that's the first indicator you've got shit to work on.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Shit to work on.

• 1:21:16Alex Cooper?

  Cause there's

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Alex Cooper?

  nothing better than when you are like so super cozy with yourself and you actually would a hundred times over choose yourself to be alone and like not go out and not right.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  Literally the best. I'm at the point now where I, you know, I'm, I'm single. I don't know when this is airing, but as of now, I'm single and I have to I have to

• 1:21:35Alex Cooper?

  Are you getting a boyfriend in the next two weeks, Lucy?

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. Should we have a dating show?

• 1:21:39Alex Cooper?

  Fuck, I was gonna say.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  And, uh, but, but my point in saying all that was like, I love my alone time. I love my life. I love my schedule. But I also do, you know, I do want a partner and I want a family and, um, and I do have to put myself outside of my comfort zone because it is, it does feel so cozy and safe in this like little world I've built for myself, but he ain't gonna come knocking on my, on my front door. Maybe he will.

• 1:22:06Alex Cooper?

  I was about to say, I love how you're like, when is this coming out? I'm like, uh, are you, do you have someone in mind? I'm like, is, is he?

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  I do have someone in mind, but, but, but we're not dating.

• 1:22:15Alex Cooper?

  Okay. You've gone on dates?

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Hmm, we're supposed to. We'll see. We'll see. And now that I've said it out loud.

• 1:22:21Alex Cooper?

  It's happening.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. We'll see.

• 1:22:23Alex Cooper?

  So you've texted?

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  A little.

• 1:22:26Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And you're gonna potentially go?

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  But this is me putting expectations on something. This is what I do all the time. I'm like, okay, how is he gonna be as a dad? Like, it's like, no, just like calm down. But this is my extremist brain.

• 1:22:38Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:22:39Alex Cooper?

  I get it.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  But I also think that I'm at the point now, like, I don't want to casually date. I'm looking for something specific and not everyone is looking for that.

• 1:22:46Alex Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  I don't know, we're just trying to manifest that into my life.

• 1:22:50Alex Cooper?

  Do you have any like dating rules for yourself that you're like, this has to be? Like, is there anything on the list that you're like, this is like?

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Don't be a raging alcoholic.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  You're like, don't, don't be, but also I do love an edge. No, no, no, no, no. I don't, I don't have any like, don'ts, but I think it's more just like, this place I'm at in my life, where I'm at, the woman I've become, it's not for everyone, and I know that. But it is for some people. And so it's more just like, being completely in alignment with someone emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually. It's tricky. It's very tricky to navigate and I'm not willing to alter anything. I will compromise, you know, compromise is a very different thing, but I think,

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  we're not settling anymore. We're not settling.

• 1:23:46Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  I made a song out of it.

• 1:23:47Alex Cooper?

  We're not settling.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  And break away, cause we're not gonna settle. Okay, we don't need an album.

• 1:23:54Alex Cooper?

  Um, what I love about what you just said, though, is like, how great you're now at a place in your life where you are so clear on the things that you need for yourself. And so if someone comes in, you're gonna be able to be like, check, check, oh, I can compromise on that.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  I know, I know immediately.

• 1:24:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Usually.

• 1:24:17Alex Cooper?

  But before you probably, and as we all go through that, where you're like, you almost become the partner that walks in the door. You become the guy that's the drug addict. You're like, oh, I guess I'll just like, you, when we go, we all go through that where we're so much more like, we are so much more susceptible to just becoming that relationship.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  A little sponge, yeah.

• 1:24:36Alex Cooper?

  Being independent of like, this is what I bring. Can you meet me here?

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  Also, and people talk about this all the time, a lot of people are filling a void with the person they choose or the relationship they're in because it's a lot of. People settling or a lot of people uh trying to figure out their shit within a relationship and that's not saying you can't you can grow as a couple.

• 1:24:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  But I think I'm so grateful that I now feel more whole. And can enter into a partnership now because now I know how to treat people because I know how to treat myself. I can show up for someone. I can respect someone. I'm ready to love. And I don't and I wasn't always that way.

• 1:25:18Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:25:19Alex Cooper?

  Do you have a type?

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Physically, no, although my friends would be like you love tall, dark and handsome. I love a musician.

• 1:25:29Alex Cooper?

  Bad boys Lucy.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  But I don't know if that's a lifestyle that's good for me. I don't know, but I but there's something about musically inclined men that really get my heart rate.

• 1:25:40Alex Cooper?

  I get it. Just turn on Spotify and listen to a song like I feel like that. The touring and the the drinking and the lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  But I do think I would love to end up with a creative of some sort. I'm I don't really set rules for. Like I'm not saying, oh, he has to be in the industry or he has to not be in the industry. I think like having that level of understanding, it would be nice to. Be with someone who gets it.

• 1:26:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Um but type, I'm more of a vibe gal. I need. I have a very like a specific sense of humor, not needing to be in the spotlight, but quick. I like. I like going deep with people. If you can keep up with me in conversations like that sexy awareness is the. Like I will drop my panties for that immediately. Like a self-aware king. I, you know, I just, I've I've been dating for the first time in my life. And a lot of it is like, these people are not asking me questions. Why am I the only one asking questions?

• 1:26:45Alex Cooper?

  Right. I I was talking to someone about this the other day that and they were like, the dates I've gone on, I'm getting to the point where I'm like, I'm just gonna stop. I've been asking you questions the whole time, not in like a weird interrogative way, but like I'm asking you questions being respectful.

• 1:26:59Alex Cooper?

  Do you even remember my last name? Like where are we at?

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  I think it's a universal thing and men, I love you. I do, but I think I'm always taken aback when when someone asks me a question and not only that, a good question.

• 1:27:13Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  That to me, I'm like, oh, to feel seen and heard.

• 1:27:19Alex Cooper?

  Have you had any bad dates recently?

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  I've never had any nightmare dates ever, but I definitely had one recently where

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  I just knew immediately. I was like, oh no.

• 1:27:38Alex Cooper?

  No, wait, why, why, why?

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Cause it felt like a rehearsed date. It felt like he was saying things that I think I had verbatim said in an interview before. And I'm like, okay, on one level, that's sweet. Like he did his research, but also he wasn't in my industry. And I always feel a little weird when it's someone not in my industry because like I don't know people's motives. Oh, my favorite thing though is I'm on a specific dating app. And um, when you're on this dating app, you can click on someone's name and you know, you go to their Instagram, you know who they're they are. If you connect with someone, you're gonna obviously Google who they are.

• 1:28:18Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  But this has happened a few times where guys act like they don't know what I do for a living or who I am. And I'm like, okay, you might not have seen my work, but I don't believe that you connected with me and haven't Googled me.

• 1:28:30Alex Cooper?

  It's you're asking me what I do for a living?

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Like just stop.

• 1:28:34Alex Cooper?

  That's the crazy.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Am I crazy? Cause I'm like, this is really, this is very bizarre.

• 1:28:39Alex Cooper?

  You're not crazy. Cause what's crazy is social media, everyone has it at this point.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  I'm like, I know what your mom's sister's dog is doing right now.

• 1:28:48Alex Cooper?

  Let's keep it real.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Alex Cooper?

  And even if you're not gonna bring that up, you're not gonna pretend you don't know what the dude does. Like

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  It's so silly, but I think it's like a way of them. Being like, I don't care what you do.

• 1:28:58Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  I'm a normal guy who wants you for all the right reasons. I'm like, yeah, but that is showing me that you want me for all the wrong reasons.

• 1:29:03Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  If you're being a phony.

• 1:29:05Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like, imagine how retarded is for the guy to be like,

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  I respect your career.

• 1:29:09Alex Cooper?

  I respect your career. This is so cool. Like, obviously, I don't know if I've watched everything you're in. Like, what was your favorite project? Like,

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:15Alex Cooper?

  That, that was like when I went on a guy in New York City, I went on a date and he was like, um, what do you do for a living? And I was like,

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  This is, well, you're engaged now.

• 1:29:23Alex Cooper?

  No, but this was like, right before I got engaged. Yes. And I was like, oh, like, I have a podcast. And like,

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  You're like, the number one most successful.

• 1:29:30Alex Cooper?

  And at the time, he followed Dave Portnoy, he followed Barstool, he fought, like, I'm like, you know, you know.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Thumbs down, dude.

• 1:29:36Alex Cooper?

  And I'm like, oh, I have a podcast. He's like, oh, like, what do you talk about? And I'm like,

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, you go look at his search history. He's listened to every episode. I just, yeah.

• 1:29:48Alex Cooper?

  It's, no, I agree. I think that in this dating world with social media, it's better to be upfront. You don't have to say like, oh, yeah, like, and go too deep of what you've stalked, but there's a level of like, let's keep it fucking real.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Let's be transparent.

• 1:30:01Alex Cooper?

  Cause then if not, you're like,

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  This is weird.

• 1:30:03Alex Cooper?

  What are you hiding?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:30:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay, if your fans and my fans can take one thing from this interview, what do you want them to take from this? Fuck. Where do we begin? Where do we fuck?

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, uh, one thing?

• 1:30:21Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, fuck, that's a lot.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Okay. I just think, for me, I didn't really have any women,

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  at least that I had found that were going through similar experiences. And I know that a lot of the things we talked about today were heavy, heavy hitters. And make a lot of people uncomfortable. Like, a lot of people will not and do not want to talk to me about my sobriety or sexual encounters or trauma or whatever. But

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  I guess like, the one thing is, I, I just, if anyone's listening, like, just know that there's nothing to be afraid of, there's nothing to be ashamed of. Um, and you're just, you're not alone. I think, like, you and I have both mentioned many times during this interview that we've felt alone or misunderstood. Um, and I think it's just always nice to know that. Very simply, you are not.

• 1:31:19Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  You are not, and I think that I'll, I'll end it with this. I, I watch very niche documentaries and I read very weird books and just like, I'll find something like the other day I was looking up crop circles, but the other day I was, I was Googling fingerprints. I was like, how fucking amazing is it that there are no two fingerprints ever in the history of ever that are alike? If that doesn't tell you everything right there, there is only one you.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  There is only ever supposed to be one of you. And that is so fucking cool to me. Look at your finger, like,

• 1:31:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  It's, it's, and so that to me just like wraps up what I'm trying to say is that

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  life is tricky, baby, but, but, but you're not alone and things might not make sense, but they will eventually because I felt that for so much of my life where I'm like, what is the fuck is happening and things eventually find their place.

• 1:32:23Alex Cooper?

  They do.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  Be gentle with yourself, be kind, please be kind to yourself. God.

• 1:32:27Alex Cooper?

  I cannot thank you enough for coming on because like you said, I think it's so important to have conversations that may make people uncomfortable because it's not what we're saying that should make them uncomfortable. It's because in some way we've been raised to think like showing any weakness and talking about things that you've gone through is a sign of weakness and it's completely the opposite. You're so fucking strong for sitting here knowing millions of people are going to listen to this and watch you talking about something that so many people will relate to. And I think it's just the beginning of people actually realizing like, damn, if she can just talk about this and overcome this and also recognize like it's a struggle, it's okay.

• 1:33:07Alex Cooper?

  If you're relapsing, if you're like, it's all, it is all gonna happen, but by talking about shit, that's the most powerful thing.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  And the most beautiful thing is, and also thank you for, this was so fun.

• 1:33:21Alex Cooper?

  This was, right?

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you just really made me feel safe and it was very easy to open up about these things. Um, cause I don't always share this with everyone and, um, and I do think it is maybe a part of my journey now to talk about these things and, and I, and I hope it resonates or that something I've said that might wake something up inside someone. I don't know, but honestly, thank you so much for having me.

• 1:33:45Alex Cooper?

  Lucy, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:34:07Alex Cooper?

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