UAP Whistleblowers Face Threats, Surveillance, and Unemployment

The fired-up denizens of UFO World loudly and consistently call for UAP insiders to step forward. "Spill everything," they demand. "No one would dare mess with you." Such bravado is easy to make for observers who have no skin in the game and for whom UFO disclosure is a spectator sport viewed from the comfort and safety of a home laptop. But for actual whistleblowers and UAP witnesses, reality is much different. Those few insiders who've had the courage to step forward with UAP information know all too well the costs of transparency. Their lives are upended. They are subject to invasive surveillance, outrageous break-ins, legal threats and intimidation, and soul-crushing financial struggles caused by seemingly permanent unemployment. In this episode, recorded on stage at Contact in the Desert, the world's largest UFO-themed gathering, George and Jeremy hear the firsthand, real-life, deeply personal experiences of those who came forward with UAP information to tell what they know—and the price they are still paying. Dylan Borland, a UAP witness and whistleblower, has been unemployed and threatened with treason charges since testifying before Congress in 2025. Matthew Brown, who revealed the existence of a deeply classified effort known as Immaculate Constellation, has had his personal and financial life gutted and reveals a plan to help future witnesses. Senior Chief Alex Wiggins, who also testified before Congress in 2025 about an encounter between a U. S. Navy warship and four Tic Tac objects, has received threats and intimidation from a UAP agency invoking the Secretary of War. What can be done to actually help future whistleblowers and witnesses? The panel has solid ideas about how to move forward. GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at +1 (323) 484-4738 Reach out to us at [email protected] ••• SAUCER + WEAPONIZED = https://saucerco.com (you do the math) ••• 🛸 CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WeaponizedClips 🤖 MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com 🕵️ MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• SLEEPING DOG : https://SleepingDogMovie.com ••• FOLLOW JEREMY ON SOCIAL https://x.com/JeremyCorbell https://Instagram.com/JeremyCorbell https://Facebook.com/JeremyCorbell JEREMY'S WEBSITE https://ExtraordinaryBeliefs.com ••• FOLLOW GEORGE ON SOCIAL https://x.com/G_Knapp https://Instagram.com/GeorgeKnapp66 https://Facebook.com/George. Knapp.125 GEORGE'S WEBSITE https://MysteryWire.com ••• *Produced by Michael Lazovsky https://MichaelLazovsky.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  These phenomena, these beings, these technologies are in contact with our service members on the front lines on a near daily basis. People are getting hurt. Nothing is being done about it.

• 1:11George Knapp?

  There are stories, reports about, hey whistleblowerers, come on forward. We're having an event in Washington DC on the steps of the Capitol in June. It's going to be great. All of you guys who've got inside information, come on forward and join us and tell us what you know. They won't dare hurt you. Well, I don't know that that's accurate or not.

• 1:29Speaker 04

  Somebody, Arrow and/or ODNI falsified classified information and lied to the government to persuade government and is throwing me with treason. You want to know how my life is? The rest of my life. That will be hung over my head. Statue of limitations for treason is life. I have no answers. Since the hearing, I have done everything I can. My wife has been threatened disgustingly. You guys are aware. I was cleared until I found out yesterday where my clearance has now been put into a position of undefined.

• 2:02Speaker 05

  Trying to quiet me and I understand that I am an active duty member. And if you take someone who's active duty and shut them down. It shuts down any other active duty person who may see something in the sky or see something in the water like I did. So I get the scare tactic.

• 2:19Speaker 06

  In Sleeping Dog, when you see me going through the file structure and system, and you see the videos that George and I were assessing, not going to put out, just glimpses. It wasn't to tease you. It was to provoke our government to release what we know they have, and we did underhanded pitches.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Very, very few people have your back. And worse than that, there are active, active efforts to solicit new whistleblowers to come forward because Dylan and I are inconvenient because we tell the truth.

• 2:47George Knapp?

  Jeremy and I get invited to a meeting at ODNI, Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Tulsi Gabbard was until recently in that position. And we met with these folks, and they said, "Director Gabbard has authorized a new investigation. We're going to get to the bottom of this UFO stuff. We're going to find the legacy programs. We have absolute clearances to go anywhere we need to go. We need your help." We were the first two guys, I guess, they called in. So we go into this meeting. We have, they ask us, "Well, you better stash your phones somewhere. Here, put them in this car outside." It didn't go as planned. It was, it was pretty nasty. We find out Jeremy gets these contacts from the ODNI folks who were supposedly going to get to the bottom of it, trashing everybody that we sent to them. Not only two of these, three guys.

• 3:31George Knapp?

  Dr. James Lekatsky, Jay Stratten, who was the head of the UAP Task Force. Sleeping Dog is a powerful and emotional film about what life is really like for those of us who are crazy enough to chase this topic.

• 3:52Speaker 06

  I'm Gino, the executive producer of The Y-Files, where we explore the unexplained, investigate hidden truths, and illuminate when the government is hiding things from the people. This morning, we have a special moment. George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell are two of the most fearless investigative journalists in the UAP world. For years, they've worked tirelessly to bring hidden realities into the open, often at great personal cost.

• 4:18Speaker 06

  They've put their reputations, their families, and their lives on the line in pursuit of the truth. Their work has helped bring forward some of the most credible whistleblowers of our time, and they've pushed the conversation on disclosure further than many thought possible. On May 8th, Michael Lizowski, the producer of Weaponized, premiered Sleeping Dog, documenting Jeremy's journey alongside George. On that very same day, the US government launched Pursue, the most aggressive UAP declassification initiative in American history. Was that a coincidence, or did they realize that this dynamic duo was no longer willing to wait for permission to bring the truth to the people? For years, George and Jeremy have stood at the center of this story, protecting sources,

• 5:03Speaker 06

  documenting evidence, demanding transparency, and most importantly, protecting whistleblowers, even as they faced intense scrutiny and attacks. Their efforts have helped move this issue from the shadows into the public spotlight, all the way to the halls of Congress, and their work is far from finished. You know them as heroes of this community. They're respected as pioneers, investigators, and truth seekers, and I'm fortunate enough to call them my friends. Please join me in welcoming George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell.

• 5:57George Knapp?

  You know, if you follow the UFO topic on social media, you know that a lot of people who have been in the field for, say, six months are incredibly impatient, and they'll say, "Hey, whistleblowers should come forward, tell everything they know. No one would dare prosecute them." Come on, guys, these are the same people who, they've been at it for six months, and they are so impatient because no one has delivered a crash saucer to the front of their house, no one has allowed them to dissect a dead alien body, and they're just not going to pay attention to it anymore until they get to do what they're doing. One of those things. So, you know, the reality is that the life, the lives of the people who have stepped forward are very different from what you might imagine. It's not like first-class travel and you got a group of groupies to follow you around and you get

• 6:42George Knapp?

  gourmet meals and it's just life on Easy Street after you become a really big UFO celebrity. It's nasty. And today, we're gonna share with you what life is like for those who have had the courage and the fortitude to step forward. Yeah.

• 6:56Speaker 06

  Not gonna even risk that microphone. Hey, guys, thanks for coming out. It means a lot to me. We wouldn't be doing what we were doing or are doing and trying to do if you didn't give a shit. So, thank you for being here. It's really cool to see everybody and thanks to, you know, having this event. This is a really fun event. It's a little bit more serious than other events, and I like that. I go on like podcasts where people make jokes about huffing the assholes of cats and I'm lost. With you, that's real, you'll see that this week. With you guys, I feel like we can talk and you'll hear. So, this is why we have three people joining us today, because you're gonna hear, you're gonna listen, and you're gonna make some

• 7:35Speaker 06

  noise if you agree. Okay, so that's, so thank you for having us. I'm excited to be here with George motherfucking Knapp. Thank you.

• 7:44George Knapp?

  And vice versa. I don't know how many of you have seen the new movie that was discussed in the introduction. What's it called, Jerry? Sleeping. Sleeping Dog. I have this, Sleeping Dog is, Sleeping Dog is a powerful and emotional film by Michael Lazovsky about what life is really like for those of us who are crazy enough to chase this topic. And we've got it easy compared to what happens to the guys that we're about to meet. You wanna introduce the three of them, one at a time?

• 8:23Speaker 06

  Um, not one at a time. It's a gang. There's an army of whistleblowers, but there are three people joining us. Now, they've all, in their own way, testified in front of you to Congress publicly.

• 8:38Speaker 06

  And I'm also meaning George Knapp. One of them hasn't had a chance yet. You've heard his words. You've read his words. But he hasn't had the chance to prove to you he's telling the truth. And the only way I know how to do that is for him to be under oath in front of the American public, just like David Grush did, and I wanted to see if he was telling the truth. Fucking do that, then you prove it to me. Fought hard for that. Fought hard for these guys. They're coming out now, and they're gonna tell you the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and they're not gonna leave anything out, except one thing. And that's because, that one thing, if we get there, is really important. But everything they said before is gonna set that up. Can I please introduce three people, who are dear friends of mine, because we've been in the trenches together.

• 9:23Speaker 06

  Everybody here has testified, except for me, and Matt Brown. Dylan Borland, Senior Chief Wiggins, Matt Brown, get out here.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  Now, I will say, a lot of people testified, under oath, behind closed doors, in very serious situations, where if they lie, they go to prison. Everything they've testified to publicly unweaponized, everything they've said with their hand up, they did under higher circumstances. Do you understand what I'm saying? Okay, no. What I'm saying, is that even though, Matt Brown hasn't raised his hand in front of Congress, and I want everybody to do that, there's a bunch of people you don't know, who have testified in very intense situations. They are telling you how it is. Accept it or not, here we go. George, take it over. I'm emotional.

• 10:37George Knapp?

  Maybe we go through with each of you guys at the start of your journey because the disclosure, the things that you have shared, each, you have different levels of it, you know, you have meetings, some of you have been before Congress, some of you have done meetings with a certain agency that we'll get into after Congress. Let's start with that, Matt. You haven't testified before Congress, but you have certainly shared information behind closed doors, under intense pressure, about what you learned. So, let's start with that.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, that's a good distinction. I was never setting out to be a whistleblower to the public. I was a UAP whistleblower to Congress. In 2021, the Senate Select Intelligence Committee passed legislation asking for people from the intelligence community to come to them with information about UAP, to speak in closed-door rooms. And, you know, the only reason I became public is because, over the months and years afterwards, it became very clear that, you know, there were shenanigans afoot. And, you know, one of those things was that no information was allegedly going from the Senate to the House. So, I took

• 11:52Speaker 02

  it upon myself to make sure that that information did go from the Senate to the House. As AOC said recently, and she's absolutely correct, disclosure already happened on the Senate side, and then that iron wall came up. And, you know, that is not the way to run a republic.

• 12:08George Knapp?

  Let's start with this, though. So, you went through, all three of you, went through proper channels. You didn't set out to be a UFO celebrity. You went through channels, you reported this up the chain of command, what should be known by your superiors, what you thought was vital information, and you did your job, and then you found out it just kind of came to a dead stop, right?

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, certainly official engagements came to a dead stop, but, you know, after certain information was shared, and I will never know which, I started being asked to have conversations with the same people, but, you know, not in government facilities. You know, cars, parks, coffee shops, bars, anything it seemed to keep me from being back in an official setting, you know, where my words would carry more weight.

• 12:59George Knapp?

  Can you, let's give a thumbnail synopsis for those who may not know what information you came across. You came across this part of, by doing your job, Immaculate Constellation. Can you give a thumbnail sketch of what that was and why you thought it was important to share with the world?

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, Immaculate Constellation, I'll briefly share the story again. Found it while doing volunteer duty to clean up a shared server that was, you know, at a very high classification level, unremarkably labeled. Opened it, you know, saw UAP content front to back. At the time, I was just working my career, and UAP were already, you know, part of that world, just by virtue of the intelligence environment I was working in. So it was unremarkable, it was, in that sense, it was, you know, oh, I found something, it was a mistake, let's get this cleaned up, because clearly somebody is handling the UAP issue, and they have left their homework on the table.

• 13:58George Knapp?

  What's the significance of what you found, though? The nature of the program that you found that existed and that you still maintain is real and probably still ongoing?

• 14:09Speaker 02

  So, I think the most accurate and correct thing to say is that it's an operational program, so it's not like something that's going out and buying a B2 bomber, and it's not setting up collection systems. It's real, it's something that organizes and coordinates real-world operations, major part of that being intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance all around the world, focused on collecting on UAP and their interactions with our forces and the forces of our adversaries, green and blue, as well. So...

• 14:44Speaker 02

  You know, it's, in that sense, it's, it's hard to say it is one thing because it's, it's encompassing, it's fluid, it's, it's an operation, it changes every day, but the mission is permanent.

• 14:56George Knapp?

  And the mission is to scoop up really good videos, image, imagery that pops up in military servers, intelligence community servers, secret places where this kind of information is stashed, and it scoops it up from those places and puts it somewhere else.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that certainly seems to be part of it for sure, whether Immaculate Constellation is the control system for all UAP imagery itself, or if that control system is what, you know, sort of enables Immaculate Constellation, you know, I don't have the answer to, I only had my limited unofficial exposure to this, so, you know, I don't want to define Immaculate Constellation, there's more to that story, there's more to that program, I hope people come forward to share more details, I've talked with enough people behind the scenes to have a better idea of what it is, but that's, you know, that's not my place to say.

• 15:51George Knapp?

  We'll come back to the glamorous life of the UFO whistleblower in a little bit. Dylan, again, same sort of question about the processes that you went to, the levels you went to, to go through proper channels, you saw, you came across some information you thought was really stunning and important, and you wanted to share it, but go through channels first before you became a UFO superstar?

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I wish, I wish I was a superstar, good morning, everybody, I think it's still morning, love y'all, um, you know, for me, I think, I never wanted this, so I had my encounter at Langley Air Force Base, and, uh, some stuff happened, and I got exposed to things at BAE because they were playing games with me for years, and they were playing games with people who were right into the legacy program, and they thought I was right in, a lot of really bad stuff happened between 2016 and about 2022, and what ended up happening was...

• 16:49Speaker 04

  I went to a dinner, and that's how I met Matt. And during this time, an individual who had worked with the, or spoke with the UAP Task Force made a comment that people's lives were in danger. And I know what I had went through, and I had told this individual, "If you are positive people's lives are in danger, then I need to immediately go talk to Congress." And I got in touch with Congress. Went in there and disclosed 70% about what I knew. And about three weeks later, they asked me to go to Arrow. I went to Arrow, and it was blatantly obvious that Arrow was playing games.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  So after that, Dave Grush testified, and I was asked to go to the IG. And like a willing American who swore no to the Constitution, I immediately went there. And I told the IG the same thing. Under oath, under penalty of going to jail. And my attorney hit me back and was basically like, "You need to disappear." So I went back to work. And I went to work for a year and a half. Jeremy and George knew me, and some others knew me. Had no desire to be public. And then I was asked to go to Congress, which is something I was advised not to speak to Congress ever again. And I spoke to them to go to the hearings. And there's some fun stories there that Jeremy may share one time in the future.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  But, long story short is, I made an emergency video with Jeremy and George because I went and did something against what the IG and my attorney recommended me to do. That is why the first series of episodes in Weaponized exists with me. Thankfully, Congress did allow me to go forward. And immediately after that, not 24 hours later, I was asked to go to DNI. And since then, in the last eight months...

• 18:43Speaker 04

  This has been absolutely atrocious, but hopefully that answers your question.

• 18:48George Knapp?

  It's been atrocious for all three of you, and we'll get into details in a bit. But you tried to do the right thing, go through channels, do what you thought the law required you to do or allowed you to do, and basically it's been miserable at every step of the way.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I had a job for about a year and a half. After my contract ended with DITRA, the job I was doing with the same customer moved to another agency, and I went to interview for my exact same job. I did it for seven years, and I was told I wasn't qualified. During a polygraph examination, I was asked specific questions about my IG interview, which is literally illegal, but again, nobody really seems to care. Well, rephrase, you guys care, everybody here cares, but our government doesn't have a count of that.

• 19:34George Knapp?

  So we're coming back to the personal consequences for all three of these guys. Chief Wiggins, you're not a whistleblower per se, but you were a witness, and like these guys, you went through channels when you got this information. There had to be a point at which you were wondering, hey, should I do this? Is this a risk to my career?

• 19:55Speaker 05

  Yes, I thought that through when initially seeing the video for the first time that you both had put out, and I didn't think I would have to think about, is this gonna affect my career, right? I'm looking at it as if I witnessed this, if I were to be on a boat in the middle of San Diego waters, if I had witnessed that as a non-military personnel, I don't think I should have any reprisal, so why would it make any difference if I'm active duty? If I worked at Burger King, I don't think you're gonna fire me from Burger King, right? So I'm thinking, I'm just gonna go out and kind of discuss with Jeremy and George what

• 20:36Speaker 05

  I saw and do the Weaponized podcast, and honored to testify in front of Congress and talk about the things that are out there that are the unexplained. But there has been definitely unfortunate things afterwards, and like you said, George, we'll talk about it.

• 20:53George Knapp?

  I mean, there you are. I mean, you're on a powerful naval warship, advanced technology. You're off the coast of Southern California. You see, you and your crew members see and record, and the sensors confirm it, a Tic Tac. And then not only one, but four. I mean, you would think, hey, US Navy, you're gonna want to know about this.

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, and thinking that exact thought, I figured we want to talk about this because this is something that you don't see off the coast of San Diego on day-to-day routines in San Diego on board a naval ship. So, once the video was released, I thought it, you know, the right way to go through the process is talk to the Navy and make sure that I would get the okay. Because I'd known and heard how entities could interfere with your career and affect things, etc. So, of course, I have kids and family and I'm not one to jeopardize anything. So, thankfully, the Navy did support going to Congress. So, that

• 21:55Speaker 05

  was, you know, I was baffled. I love the Navy, of course, but I was thinking government is government regardless of what branch you're in. But, yeah, the Navy did help with getting to Congress. That was great. But, again, it's arrow, as Dylan's mentioning, was what wound up becoming an issue with me afterwards.

• 22:16George Knapp?

  So, today, if you follow social media, X, there are stories, reports about, hey, whistleblowers, come on forward. We're having an event in Washington DC on the steps of the Capitol in June. It's gonna be great. All of you guys who've got inside information, come on forward and join us and tell us what you know. They won't dare hurt you. Well, I don't know that that's accurate or not. Jeremy, why don't you dig into what their lives have been like since they came forward?

• 22:46Speaker 06

  I will tell that story one day, today's not the day. You know, look, with Congress, they, it takes months, it takes months. When I recommend a witness, they want 15. They say, "We got three days." I go, "No, you don't, not gonna happen. They aren't picking up, they don't fucking trust you." It takes months. These guys are in the wind. By the way, none of these guys asked to testify, none of them. They did everything right, reported up chain of command. I asked them to testify. I did. And what happens with that is that with each of them, there are consequences. So with Matt, you got to hear his words, right? With Dick...

• 23:31Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot, designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And, no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 24:31Speaker 06

  Dylan, that was a protective move. Get in front because of what has happened to him. Directly, because he wanted to tell you what was going on, and he still can't. He has no protections. He does not have a cleared Docter-like process like Matt does through State Department. Senior chief, just from the very start, he says, "I'm speaking for myself, not the Navy." But Dylan doesn't have that protection, so it's different for each person. But I'll always remember, actually, all of you said it to me in your own way, but the last person said it to me was you, Senior Chief. I said, "Why are you gonna do this? Just 'cause I asked you don't just 'cause I asked you to do something? I know you trust me, but I can't provide all the protection. I don't know what's gonna happen. This is UFO Vietnam. I don't know."

• 25:15Speaker 06

  And he said to me, because it's the right thing to do.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  What were their lives like?

• 25:29Speaker 06

  Buck it. I'll be blunt. Consequences for each of them. Do you guys mind if I'm a little blunt? Not too personal?

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, go for it.

• 25:36Speaker 06

  Let's tell the truth today.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  I mean, one week ago, we got into some really massive stuff on Weaponized, so go for it, man.

• 25:41Speaker 06

  Okay. So, without getting personal, because our families get doxxed, our wives get threatened, our moms get threatened, we lose jobs, we have people follow us. Badge contact, not just like someone I think is following us, right? Badge contact, if you know what that means. They show you the badge from each federal agency, and they just put pressure on you. I don't know, at midnight at a fucking charging station for me, OSI. So I film them, film, record everybody. Here's what happened to them. Matt Brown, he's had to move because he has no job, couldn't afford the place he lived in. His home was broken into. They didn't steal anything. While they were sleeping in there, him and his wife are in the house, they laid out IDs across the table.

• 26:24Speaker 06

  You said I could talk a little bit about it, just to show they took photos of him. They smashed his grandfather's ashes on the ground. Yeah, break-in. Dylan Borland, there's a police report, he had his brake lines cut. We don't know who did it. Who would wanna hurt Dylan? Don't know. Happened to be on a very unique day of his life, though. A very auspicious day. We can never prove it. Maybe it's so he goes around saying that, so you all think he's crazy. But he did wreck the truck. And no, he wasn't drunk. So, Senior Chief was actually one of the, and I'm not even scratching the surface with what happened to my friends. When they get threatened by ODNI, the head of all intelligence agencies, where I said to them, "They are here to protect you, that's what they say, wink wink, don't trust them.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  I got you, I'm documenting everything." They tried to get Dylan, straight up, on treason, by fabricating evidence against them, and the only reason it didn't work is because I caught those fuckers, and I gave it to my lawyer, and it's all recorded. Matt, they tried to get on counter espionage on American assets, or some fancy shit like that, and, and, and they said he made it up. I go, "Really? Here's some proof he didn't." "Oh, they found out what I actually have with George." So here's the deal, Senior Chief Wiggins, it was more insidious, because it was subtle, because there's covert, and there's overt manipulation. Covert shit, just to annoy you, push you over the edge. Somebody doxxed me real hard last night, my phone won't stop ringing, every 10 seconds

• 27:54Speaker 06

  a new call. Thanks whoever did that. It doesn't affect me. I've got a family phone in my pocket, bitch, and you'll never get that number. Senior Chief Wiggins was insidious, because just like Matt and Dylan, how they were told you have absolute protection, "Bro, you can come in, you can say anything, we're in a skiff, I am completely cleared, I'll hunt this down, we're gonna get to the bottom of the UFO thing." They tried then, to falsify charges, and first what they tried, is to make me and George turn around, and denounce every whistleblower, anything everybody has ever said, "They're all fucking liars," from Lu Elizondo, don't take my words and twist them in a video. They lied to me, that everybody was liars, and I caught them in the lies.

• 28:39Speaker 06

  Lu Elizondo, Jay Stratton, Eric Davis, sweetest guy in the world, Matt Brown, Dylan Borland, Senior Chief, they all tried to turn me and George so we'd tell the U, "Fuck these guys, they all lied to us." David Grush, that's what they're trying to make us do, to do their dirty work. Last thing was Senior Chief. Most insidious. Arrow is supposed to investigate under congressional mandate. They're not supposed to be running a human intelligence operation to entrap people who are active Navy and threaten them that if they don't go do a deposition, I don't know the right word. He already said everything with his hand up. He politely declined. Then they threatened him, his higher command. They went to his higher command. Fuck that. We shut that down in one hour? One hour shutdown.

• 29:24Speaker 06

  So they're telling you as it is. You wanted me to say what they've been through. I can never describe it, man. You saw what I went through with Sleeping Dog? That's real. I spun out. That's never happening again. I am taking that anger, it wasn't even fear, I'm taking that anger and I'm channeling it. And that's what I'm asking you to do today when you hear more from them. Yes. You understand?

• 29:45George Knapp?

  So just to backfill some of the details. Last September, there's this hearing before Congress and we were all there. A couple of us got to testify. The day after, Jeremy and I get invited to a meeting at ODNI, Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Tulsi Gabbard was until recently in that position. And we met with these folks and they said, Director Gabbard has authorized a new investigation. We're going to get to the bottom of this UFO stuff. We're going to find the legacy programs. We have absolute clearances to go anywhere we need to go. We need your help. We were the first two guys, I guess they called.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And, no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  Then, yeah, yeah, we were. Real quick. Oh yeah, we were because when you find out one day who tasked them to contact me so George and I would talk with them, it was months before that. When you find that out one day, if it needs to be said, it's gonna make you fucking scared.

• 31:43George Knapp?

  So we go into this meeting, we have, they ask us, "Well, you better stash your phones somewhere. Here, put them in this car outside here." And, so we did. And, yeah, we took an Uber there. "You can't take your phones in here, you gotta put them somewhere." So we did. And we go into this meeting, two people. They tell us, "We're getting to the bottom of this, this is serious, we can follow it anywhere, we need your help. We're looking for names of people who can help us find the legacy program." So, you know, we shared a couple of names that are pretty obvious that they should know about, and they did follow up on them. And then we said, "We know some whistleblower types who you probably should talk to as well, so long as they're protected." Well, you know, eventually, two of these three guys did meet with them.

• 32:27George Knapp?

  And, it didn't go as planned. It was, it was pretty nasty. We find out Jeremy gets these contacts from the ODNI folks who were supposedly gonna get to the bottom of it, trashing everybody that we sent to them. Not only two of these three guys, but people like Lou Elizondo, Dr. James Lekatsky, Jay Stratton, who was the head of the UAP Task Force, was involved with OSAP, ATIP, and pretty much everyone. Character assassination, the most foul, ridiculous kind of allegations about them. It was pretty clear, within months of that endeavor being undertaken, that they were out to, to destroy everybody who came forward, that the report that- was being prepared for ODNI was to smash this.

• 33:09George Knapp?

  It was meant to discourage Congress from pursuing this because they're a little bit scared of Congress. I mean, the passion of people like Representative Luna and Burchett and Burleson and others on the Senate side as well. I mean, they're a little bit scared of that because Congress does have power, even in today's political environment. So I think that that report was meant for one audience, it was Congress, and maybe for media to move along to some other issue. But I want to hear from these guys about what their lives have been like since coming forward because the personal cost is unbelievable. Matt, you can't get a job, right?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  No, George. I have lost my career. I spent over a decade building, you know, from 2011 on, starting over with nothing. And, you know, prospects aren't good these days.

• 34:04George Knapp?

  And then the pressure is intense and very personal. I mean, it means not just the effect on you, but your wife, what you want to do for the future. You will never work in one of those kind of programs again, ever, will you?

• 34:17Speaker 02

  No. Not only will I never work in any programs, I will almost certainly never be allowed anywhere close to government. On the personal side, you know, I'm 35. This started for me five years ago. My wife and I are, you know, we wanted a family. Seems very remote now. It's very difficult to imagine a future at this moment. It has been hell.

• 34:50George Knapp?

  So you hear these rah rah pronouncements from the UFO gallery. Hey, come on whistleblowers, come forward. They wouldn't dare hurt you or prosecute you. They don't need to prosecute you to destroy your life. I mean, the consequences are very real. Could you share a little bit more about what Jeremy mentioned about the break-in and spreading out the information in your house?

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, that was very bizarre, and I didn't quite realize the gravity of what had happened at the time. There's only, as time went on, just became clear how both utterly strange it was and how there's only one real explanation for what was going on. So, to walk through it, you know, woke up, just a normal weekday, and was heading out to work early in the morning, and, you know, just saw my wife's cards laid out on the couch, and all of her IDs and everything, and I thought, oh, that's strange, maybe she lost something. So I started cleaning up. And then I see more things moved around, and it's, it starts looking like, oh, shit, we had a hot prowl, someone was in here last

• 35:55Speaker 02

  night while we were sleeping trying to rob us. But then I look around, and right on that ground floor, you know, there's, there's three laptops worth like thousands of dollars each, nothing is missing. The only thing taken out of the house is, as you said, my grandfather's ashes, who was a Navy veteran of World War II. And not only that, after World War II, continued to serve his country. We don't know exactly what he did, but I did find that he was, you know, conveniently stationed at multiple NSA stations across the United States through the 50s. We'll never find his records because they were all destroyed in that fire in Missouri. So that is the man whose remains they took away from me and left as a message in the street next to the garbage. So that was a very difficult

• 36:38Speaker 02

  day. Didn't end up going to work, because we had to call the police and have a normal investigation. They were just as confused as us, you know. They, they thought maybe it was just some creep instead, you know, came in and looked some sort of sexual pervert, you know, like, because nothing's missing, why are you in a house with these people sleeping?

• 36:55George Knapp?

  You don't think that's the answer?

• 36:56Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 36:58George Knapp?

  I mean, it's intimidation, it's meant to mess with your brain, it's meant to mess with your life.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Correct. And at that point, I was not a whistleblower to Congress. I was merely involved with the sort of networks in the, in the intelligence community that were looking at UAP from, from the perspective of, you know...

• 37:20Speaker 02

  What the hell is going on? And we're being lied to. We need to start figuring this out from the inside because these phenomena, these beings, these technologies are in contact with our service members on the front lines on a near daily basis. People are getting hurt. Nothing is being done about it.

• 37:40George Knapp?

  Dylan, we haven't, you know, really described what you were doing, but you were working for an agency inside a private company, a contractor, and the nature of the work was incredibly sensitive, unrelated to UAPs. But in the course of that work, you learn a lot of information and you do the right thing and come forward. So what's your life like? You can't, you can't work in that anymore. You don't even know if you have a clearance as of this weekend.

• 38:08Speaker 04

  Well, George, accurate. A couple of quick things as you ask about my life. Let's get it clear. Somebody, Arrow and/or ODNI falsified classified information and lied to the government to persuade government and is threatening me with treason. You want to know how my life is? The rest of my life, that will be hung over my head. Statue of limitations for treason is life. I have no answers. I have asked and nobody can tell me what is going to be done and what accountability there is. So to answer your question, George, since the hearing, I have done everything I can. My wife has been threatened disgustingly. You guys are aware. I have been doxxed. They have showed pictures of the inside of my house.

• 38:53Speaker 04

  I've been threatened with treason and I've been sitting here trying to help whistleblowers and trying to look out for people. That's all I care about. Accountability and protecting the Constitution. It's been miserable, George. My wife and I don't have jobs and both of us, well, she's still cleared. I was cleared until I found out yesterday where my clearance has now been put into a position of undefined. So I had a clearance until yesterday.

• 39:20George Knapp?

  Interesting timing that you're here for that, too.

• 39:23Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 39:25George Knapp?

  Chief Wiggins, you haven't had quite that kind of disruption in your life, but there was something really interesting that happened after this, we met with ODNI. You got contacted with the premier UFO investigative agency in the US government. They're called Arrow, and they're doing a really fine job. But what was your experience with them, and what kind of threats did they make to you?

• 39:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, George, after September in Washington, I was flooded with emails from Arrow. And originally, I didn't know what the agency, what their focus was, what's their mission. So I got in touch with both of you to ask questions and kind of understand. Arrow wind up contacting my chain of command and, you know, had a sit-down with my captain. And he was kind of curious. He was wondering, you know, "Why? Why am I being contacted about something you did as a civilian, right? That you were doing it outside of the uniform? Why am I being contacted?" "I don't know, sir. I'm not sure."

• 40:28Speaker 05

  So he let me see the email that he was part of, because they'd sent one directly to him, and then one with him and myself on it. Totally different literature in both of those. His was a lot more discreet, to the point where my captain contacted Arrow, the person who sent the email, and asked the question. But before he asked the question, he brought me to the office and said, "What do you want to do?" I said, "I want nothing to do with this. I'd like to politely decline. I just want to continue on with my life. I said what I said to Congress. I think that should be sufficient for what they're asking for." He said, "Okay. If that's what you want me to say, I'll say it." And so he did tell them that.

• 41:13Speaker 05

  Come to find out... That he asked over the phone, got in contact with Arrow and said, he'd like to politely decline, but my captain said, "I'm curious, what happens now? What happens to my senior chief now that he doesn't want to do this?" And they said, "Well, we're gonna let you know that we'd like to push back and tell you that if we have to get Pete Hexeth, Secretary of War, to get him to come in, that's what we're gonna have to do." I was surprised to hear that. I would have never thought, you know, this is the agency that sounds so nice and kind to us, that they're gonna compel me as an active-duty member to tell them something

• 41:57Speaker 05

  that I've already said to Congress. There's nothing else that I'd like to share with them. And that's threatening, you know, I'm around the corner from retirement, a year away. I can see this becoming an issue for my retirement. I can see this being an issue as a father retiring and attempting to get jobs and such. It's unfortunate our friends here are going through this, but I see them putting me in that same basket in the future, and it's unfortunate. But again, what we did needed to be done.

• 42:37Speaker 06

  So, you put people's clearances as undefined, or, you know, you're never gonna be able... You've worked sometimes decades. How many decades have you worked, senior chief?

• 42:49Speaker 05

  Two decades. I'll be 25 years next year in the Navy.

• 42:53Speaker 06

  Thank you for your service.

• 43:01Speaker 06

  So the people promising us they're gonna protect whistleblowers are asking them to come out en masse now. Now you've heard what happens when whistleblowers come out. So do you think it's a good idea, and we should all support that every whistleblower just come up there and say whatever they want? Because there is a cascade of casualties that happens for each person. I've witnessed it, and I... I told them each time, I told Senior Chief, "You're a single father. You're, at that time, a couple of years from retirement, now one year, retire. If they want to fuck with you, they're going to, and this could destroy everything you worked decades for to have your family, to be there for your kids, to put food on the table, and to be the dad and have the life that you envisioned for yourself just because you decided

• 43:46Speaker 06

  to raise your hand and say, 'I was on a ship and we saw four Tic Tacs.' How fucking dumb is that? Right? So, that's not gonna happen to him, and this is gonna stop with them, and here's how.

• 43:59Speaker 06

  OD and I, and by the way, infiltrated by CIA, fuck around and find out. There's more of us than there are you. So, go ahead. Fuck around and find out, because George and I, we do go to the desert and dig shit up. We do.

• 44:18Speaker 06

  And I, and we're not bluffing.

• 44:21Speaker 06

  And in fact, they know that my lawyer and George's lawyer has everything that protects these guys as well, including the fabrication of evidence against these two.

• 44:31Speaker 06

  Fuck around and find out, and that's not a bluff.

• 44:36Speaker 06

  Give me one second.

• 44:42Speaker 06

  We need to have a process

• 44:45Speaker 06

  that is good for national security, where people like Dylan and Matt and Senior Chief can come forward

• 44:53Speaker 06

  and tell what they know. It doesn't have to be public, but they need to be able to tell what they know.

• 45:02Speaker 06

  There are a lot of people that you do not know the names and faces of. And I'm hesitant

• 45:10Speaker 06

  to bring them forward because of what's happened to them. And that's gotta stop. I don't have much more to say right now.

• 45:19George Knapp?

  As you might have guessed, these guys have been through these experiences together. I mean, they have bonded over the commonality of the experiences, you and a couple of the guys, right?

• 45:30Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 45:31George Knapp?

  Because there aren't many people in the world who've been through what you've been through.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 45:37George Knapp?

  Dylan, how did it go at Home Depot when you submitted your resume of working for national security?

• 45:43Speaker 04

  Well, you know, I mean, I've talked about this before. We joked up in Oregon about me going to be a park ranger. I would actually love it. But, you know, my resume is a bit insane for most people. You know, I reported directly to the Director of the CIA, the President of the United States, and Director of National Intelligence. So when you see that on a resume, and you understand what it says, and you're...

• 46:06George Knapp?

  You sound like management material to me.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Oh. I appreciate it, George. You know, you're applying to load lumber. I got my master's degree. It's one of two things. Either you're crazy, or you will leave the first second you get. So not too many people want to hire you.

• 46:25George Knapp?

  Matt, after that ODNI meeting, you met with these folks. You did the whole thing. You went through the process. You answered every question. You gave them everything you wanted, that they wanted from you. I know that what information we got about you after that was so preposterous and outrageous. A, outrageous that it would be shared with us because it was confidential, it's behind closed doors. We shouldn't know this stuff. But B, how outrageous the allegations were. Where were you when you got the information from us about what their claim was about you as being anti-Jewish, a Jew hater is what the words were? Where were you?

• 47:03Speaker 02

  I was at my friend's Jewish wedding in Virginia.

• 47:13George Knapp?

  You got a problem with certain ethnic groups?

• 47:17Speaker 02

  No, George.

• 47:19George Knapp?

  I mean, how did you feel when you hear that slur about you? How ridiculous it is? That's the first, I mean, you'd be tempted almost to laugh about it, but then you had to get pretty mad about it.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  I was furious.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  As I said in the interview, you know, I raised other issues around UAP.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  You know, the fact that they went with the predictable attack there, which was twisting the concerns about the actions of the State of Israel in relation to October 7th and the death of Charlie Kirk, which is what happened right after the hearing that Dylan Borland and George Knapp testified at.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, they twisted those concerns into calling me an anti-Semite.

• 48:05George Knapp?

  And Chief Wiggins, has Pete Hegseth reached out to you personally since then? Has he?

• 48:09Speaker 05

  No.

• 48:09George Knapp?

  You waiting for a call?

• 48:11Speaker 05

  He has not, and you know, I will say, George, I recognize as an active-duty member the possible intent of Arrow trying to quiet me, and I understand that I am an active-duty member, and if you take someone who's active-duty and shut them down, it shuts down any other active-duty person who may see something in the sky or see something in the water like I did. So I get the scare tactic, but I would, I would say if you're seeing something, especially how I went to Congress as a civilian, say something. Don't let something like that scare you if you're wanting to do something for good.

• 48:52George Knapp?

  You know, today on X, this morning, I saw this story about Sean Kirkpatrick, who cannot let Arrow go. He was there for 17 months, and it's been, what, three years, and he can't let it go? So now we finally hear some positive statements from Dr. Kozlowski, the head of Arrow, saying, you know, some of these cases really are unexplainable. We've seen unexplainable movements, and Sean Kirkpatrick, who still thinks he's the spokesperson for Arrow, comes out and blasts the guy who ...placed him in the job for daring to say that there are some cases that are unexplainable. Of course there are. The idea that Arrow is the designated investigative agency for UFOs and has invited whistleblowers and witnesses to come forward, tell us what you know.

• 49:35George Knapp?

  And I've made the joke before, it's like the roach motel, the old jokes about roaches go in but don't come out, that's UFO information to Arrow. I hope that Dr. Kozlowski, the new guy, is who he says he is and is trying to turn that thing around, but can you imagine, you guys, any of the other whistleblowers that you know, potential whistleblowers and witnesses, and there is a small group of them, can you imagine any of them going to Arrow and telling them what they know, ever?

• 50:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I hope nothing but the best, but no. And I think everybody loosely is one degree of separation, so pretty much everybody out there knows who to get in contact with and can talk with people. And anybody who's watching and paying attention to this, like I said before, I've been looking at this for years, I think they're looking at this and it's, "I'm gonna come forward, get this story, and there's nothing for me and my family, and nobody's gonna protect us." And you can actively commit crimes, and there is no accountability, and they get away with it. So, no.

• 50:34Speaker 06

  There is a learning process on who to trust. Trust is something you can't give, it needs to be earned, and it needs to be replicated and duplicated every day for the rest of your fucking life. We have trust, us up here.

• 50:52Speaker 06

  It's been hard learned, sometimes. We trust the wrong person, and that can be a big mistake, it could have been a big mistake. There are some journalists who offer to pay whistleblowers, that you're not a journalist if you offer to pay somebody. They're fake, and they report to people. And I will call everybody out by name with evidence if I must, but you gotta use your own intuition. If you have a story and you wanna come, tell us. We're on cosmic time, though. If you want your story out with the wrong journalist, you want it done right, you can come to us. Ask people, legacy of trust, maybe back to Commander Fravor when we kept his secret for many, many, many years before it came out. The worst thing they could do is put a fake journalist in front of you.

• 51:38Speaker 06

  People don't understand my anger sometimes, you don't know why, and they fill in the voids. Well, just ask me. I'll tell you why I was angry and snapped at my backpack. It's supposed to be funny, there was a gif of that. But I'll tell you why. Not now, personally, I'll tell you. So who can you trust? A couple of things I wrote down. Right now, we are in a, we have about 20 minutes, and I want them, want you to ask them questions. Okay? We're in an era of call and response. Pay attention. In Sleeping Dog, when you see me going through the file structure and system, and you see the videos that George and I were assessing, not going to put out, just glimpses, it wasn't to tease you. It was to provoke our government to release what we know they have when we did underhanded pitches.

• 52:22Speaker 06

  So imagine, if that's underhanded pitches, instantaneous acceleration? That's real. Underhanded pitch. Okay? Call and response. What that means is, you need to pick up that phone and make that call however you do it, because we're getting responses, we have to provoke, nothing will ever be given to you. Two other points.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  We're gonna do Q and A. But, um, there are podcasters on payrolls. You are un-American. Do the right thing. Fucking stop or pivot? Because I know who you are. No. No, no. No, no. Check it out. Check it out. Every human has to do what every human has to do, and that's on them, not on me and you. You understand? I'm just saying it because it's true. Okay, last thing, because I'm angry. I do want to tell you very briefly about something you're gonna hear about. Matt and Dylan had no support. It's in a pitch. I'm just informing you, I'm reporting the news.

• 53:25Speaker 06

  Matt and Dylan are attempting to start something, and I'm in support of it, because I know who they are. They didn't have supporters whistleblowers.

• 53:34Speaker 06

  But they're creating something. And I want to give you just 30 seconds, Matt, maybe. Just tell them, take a minute, tell them what you're doing. You're not going to be able to find it for like, probably a couple of weeks. When we put this out, I'll put links, but they're building this idea. And I believe in it, because we need it. As you can tell, people need it. And then after that, we're going right into Q and A, so you get some questions. And then we're disappearing, man.

• 53:57George Knapp?

  And by the way, what you're going to talk about is not for you and Dylan, right?

• 54:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, so, as I alluded to in our interview back in March, Dylan and I have started

• 54:09Speaker 02

  a nonprofit organization to basically be a whistleblower support organization. Through very harsh lessons, we have learned that aside from Jeremy and George here, there is almost nobody in this space publicly we can trust. And any whistleblowers who are already out there, or who are considering coming forward, have very dire prospects coming out on their own to the sort of established ecosystem that's there. So, we are creating something by whistleblowers, for whistleblowers, to help these people

• 54:48Speaker 02

  and their families medically, financially, spiritually, emotionally, and legally, to just survive the process. It is hell. Very, very few people have your back. And worse than that, there are active efforts to solicit new whistleblowers to come forward, because Dylan and I are inconvenient, because we tell the truth. And they want those whistleblowers to come forward for one of two reasons, to these very particular groups. They want to gain technical intelligence through underhanded means, or they want political pawns that they can use to push their messaging. That's fine, this is a free country, but we are going to do our best to make sure that

• 55:29Speaker 02

  the honest people, the true people, have a place they can go that has their back and looks out only for them. And that's what we're starting. We're calling it Vanguard. We lead the way, and we want to support our warriors, who also have led the way for truth.

• 55:57Speaker 06

  I'm gonna try to be a little light now and a little levity. We accomplished the mission. I wanted you to hear the voices. Now you've done heard them. But I will say, it's really ironic to me that Matt and Dylan have to start something to protect other people. When I get calls from very rich people who are saying, "Oh, we're putting together this whistleblower fund. We're doing this, you know, we're gonna do this." I go, "Motherfuckers, they need your help now. They had to move houses now. They don't have security now. You're just trying to get more people to come to you to be whistleblowers. You learn some shit or whatever, you get out of that wampum, and it's bullshit. It's bullshit, guys. Support the people that need the help. They're not asking for a handout either, by the way. They're not doing that.

• 56:41Speaker 06

  All they're trying to do is set up a safe place for people to come forward and tell the fucking truth. So with that said, we're gonna have a Q and A. But, please, this is important to me. Ask a question of those guys, right? Ask a question. Don't tell me a story, tell me later, I'll be here all day. Ask a question. Whoever has a good question, it's usually one sentence. Let's do... Let... How much time we got? How much time we got? Hold on, hold on, hold on. How much time we got? Twenty minutes. Twenty minutes? Wow, that's fun. How is the best way to do this? Can I just hand you this mic? Or can I hand somebody this mic and they go to the people that raise their hands and ask the question? So it's really chill. Who wants to take the mic from me? Thank you. Please, somebody take the mic from me, I'm sick of my own voice.

• 57:32Speaker 06

  This question is for Matthew. In your last episode with the guys, you said you're not sure if this planet is our home anymore. Can you say it louder, because I can't hear very well. On the last episode with Matt... Matthew, he said that he's not sure that this planet is our home anymore. I just came from across the way with Jack Fillet, and he said over there that they have these beings and they're trying to communicate with them and build a language. I just heard him say that. So like, whose planet is this going to be? Or who do you intend this going to be for?

• 58:10Speaker 02

  I'm not going to lie to you and say that I know the answer to that. But the answer that I can give you is that it's clear that we are sharing this planet.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  Hi, thank you, Missile Man. Great to see you, Dylan. Thanks for being here. So, questions about, to Senior Chief Wiggins and the whole panel who wants to chime in. The United States Navy has such an interesting history of supporting the sailor out at sea as opposed to the United States Air Force. It's much more adjacent to the intelligence community, much more adjacent to the national security infrastructure and policy. Do you see any way to help leverage protection for people who come from the private sector to report, for instance Dylan Borland and others, to leverage the support system in the Navy by looking for whistleblowers within the Navy structure because politically and historically they've been so much sort of supportive than the other branches and particularly

• 59:07Speaker 06

  the private sector? Is there a way to leverage that and weaponize that?

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Alex, I think you should go. You're Navy. You know I'm Air Force, so are you, buddy.

• 59:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, who you are Navy. I think a good way would be to incorporate the systems that we have in the Navy for the other branches to include the government as well. I think it would be as simple, to me I say simple, but as simple as having someone from the different branches look at the instructions and the way in which we have our reporting procedures and just carbon copy it and utilize and set up a program or an office with inside of the Air Force, Army, etc. to be able to do exactly what the Navy does and copy the same thing for the government itself if there are those in the civilian sector doing the same.

• 59:51Speaker 06

  Before the next question, I just want to say, our friend, John Gutierrez, aka Guts, was the first active Navy person to ever come unweaponized. It was the second episode, you should all watch it. It was a huge risk, got a big family. Just want to do a shout out to Guts because he was here one year with his family. Right now, Guts is on deployment. He's on the USS Abraham. They're delayed very, very long. They're blowing up their food. They're sending drones to go and blow up parts of the ship. I just want to say shout out to Guts. We love you. We're thinking about you. And he's been out a long time.

• 1:00:35Speaker 06

  Hey, first, thanks to all you guys for what you're doing. My question is, you said that there are whistleblowers who haven't gone public yet that you are aware of, and I'm assuming you're all in touch with them. No, don't make assumptions. They're not all in touch with them. Do you know if they're already being messed with and that's why they're not coming forward? Yes. And is there anything that you guys or even us could do to help them? No. Okay. But, but, but, hold on, hold on, hold on. He should answer that, but, yes, actually. Now that you know, tell people. We have an army of people that want to come forward. Tell people they're being fucked with. Tell people what you heard today. This is truth.

• 1:01:20Speaker 06

  Dylan?

• 1:01:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think this is what Matt and I want to set up, is basically some sort of preemptive, also restitution fund until we get accountability by our government, because our government should be helping us out for the crimes they committed against all of us in humanity. So that is what we're trying to do.

• 1:01:35Speaker 06

  Thanks, guys.

• 1:01:44Speaker 06

  My question is for Matt. How would you compare the images and video that the Department of War have released to the images and video within the Immaculate Constellation Program? Like, is there a huge fidelity difference where if you saw what you've seen, it would be like, obvious and indisputable, or is it still kind of the same, similar?

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  So I'm going to be careful with that one. You know, in the Department of State-approved field report that I submitted to Congress, you know, some incidents are described.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  I think I would refer you to the level of detail written down in that report for what was visible.

• 1:02:29Speaker 06

  Are we over hearings, by the way, because I've heard a couple of congresspeople, my friends, say, "We don't need to hear anymore from whistleblowers, you know, we need the goods, you know, so we got some videos." There are people, I think, should testify under oath with their hand up and have that chance, because then you will know, because they've done it behind closed doors and skiffs with threatening of imprisonment, but for you to trust them, if they put their hand to God and country and congress and tell you what they know, don't you think that's still important to hold hearings with whistleblowers, or no? Tell me, yes or no? Yeah. Okay, so now congress, say it really loud, "Hey, congress, it's still important to people, right?" Yeah. Okay, so they represent you, so I bet we're gonna have more fucking hearings after they hear that. Next question.

• 1:03:14Speaker 06

  Matt should testify.

• 1:03:15George Knapp?

  Guys, thank you for the guts that you show. Dylan, question for you. I don't really know what it is you supposedly saw. Can you please tell us the information that you may have, or at least an overview? Thank you.

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, so I saw a approximate 100-foot equilateral triangle take off near the NASA hangar at Langley Air Force Base. Pretty simple, watched a light pop up, flew to me, I can't tell if it manifested, I can't tell you if it decloaked from active camouflage, stopped 100 feet in front of me and 100 feet above me. Equilateral triangle, large center white light, gold, fluid like plasma coming over it. Three minutes, cellphone shut off, flash took off, I estimate a commercial jet level in seconds, and phone reset, I could smell thunderstorms, and I had sack electricity. As for the other things, I would really, really recommend you listen to last week's

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  Weaponized interview out of Oregon.

• 1:04:13Speaker 06

  I did not set Dylan up with those questions.

• 1:04:20Speaker 06

  I was told by the intelligence agency, the name of a program that I already knew. I was told that he did four drawings. He did not. They were trying to solicit from me that he ever walked past the line to me and George. He did not, and it's all documented. The only reason I could say it, and he can't confirm nor deny it, and we called my lawyer and Georgia's lawyer right before, is because ODNI slipped, and I have it documented. So Matt wants to tell that story. Sorry, Dylan wants to tell that story. Matt has another story. Got it? Next question, quick. How many minutes we got? Right, do you want to give the name?

• 1:05:03Speaker 06

  Project Rubik's Cube is one of many UFO programs. It's a very small one, but it's real, and it's part of a program that deals mostly with UAP. But there is an entire, almost constellation of UAP programs. Some deal with reverse engineering, some deal with contact, some deal with stuff that's really strange. There's a whole constellation of programs, and they're changing names all the time, and they're different names to see what leaks. There's a lot of fake info out there.

• 1:05:38Speaker 06

  Okay, 11 minutes, so I can hit them with questions. Hi, guys. I'm incredibly empathetic to your employment situations. What can we do to help you get a job? You seem like you have lots of really great skillsets. I work in tech, we're always hiring. How can we help? How can all of these people who all work help you get a job that's not at Home Depot?

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I think one of the things we were floating, and this is one of the other difficulties, is, you know, we appreciate all of you and love all of you. Sorry.

• 1:06:24Speaker 06

  Men cry. It's okay, I cry in a movie. I love you, buddy.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, because of things that have happened, you really can't trust anybody. So, one of the ideas we were floating was with this organization is a way to get resumes up there and go through whistleblowers and possible future whistleblowers to get out of the situations they're in. But that's one of the ideas. I'll give it over to you guys.

• 1:06:56Speaker 06

  It's just, it's hard to trust anybody because they have a lot of people infiltrating their life and we workshop it. And I have certain knowledge and access to information to help, but I'm not perfect with it. There's been a lot of attempts, it's called false friendship in the intelligence agencies. Sometimes it can last years. So, someone will befriend me, or these guys, tell me they're from NSA because they know they have to tell me because I'll find out in one day. And after four years, when they tried to get me and George to solicit, I told that NSA person the truth, which is that I've known the whole time that you're the FBI liaison to the NSA. Now, I like you, you fucker, but you tried to get me. Now, I'll have beers with you, but that's called false friendship.

• 1:07:39Speaker 06

  So, what these guys are up against is it's hard to make new friends. It's hard to trust employment.

• 1:07:44George Knapp?

  It seems like she's saying she'll talk to you now. You know, I mean, I don't think it hurts to go ahead and have that conversation, even if you've got to worry about trust and verify later, but I mean, you're here when I have that conversation.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and just a comment, I have nothing against Home Depot.

• 1:08:04George Knapp?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  In community college, that's where I worked to support myself, you know. Thank you. The next few months are going to be trying to get this organization off the ground, and if part of that is a job board from people that we vet and trust, that would be wonderful. Nobody's looking for a handout, they're looking for a future.

• 1:08:39Speaker 06

  Five minutes? Ten minutes? Nine minutes. Nine minutes, yeah. So, we have to be respectful and move everybody out quickly. I just ask that, we have to slip out the back door. We will be here all day, all of us. Right. These guys, as you can see, Matt is very thoughtful. An esoteric thoughtful Matt, just cracked a fucking joke. And that is amazing, because laughing helps you through this. We have this joke between me and Matt, the Brown family, I met his whole family, most of his family, and the Corbaler family, as I call my family. We don't have the same humor, so we're like two computers not missing it. Dylan, his mind is so fast, and that's why he is a great all-source analyst for a couple,

• 1:09:23Speaker 06

  number of agencies. So we miss each other like this sometimes, and I'm like, "Dylan, give me the straight news." But this bond, and we got the anchor, senior chief, who's just fucking right there, like I look to him, "Where should we go?" But this whole panel of people you have over here are highly skilled, highly qualified. They're trying to make a change. They're trying to make a change because of what happened to them. And you can support that. I don't know how. It's not about giving a Patreon, or giving them a... There's something bigger they're doing, and I'm excited to see. And I don't know if it's gonna work out, neither do they, but you gotta try. And these guys are gonna try. So we probably have five minutes, six minutes? I'm just trying to get out of here, you can do it.

• 1:10:08Speaker 06

  So the exit plan is this, is we'll say hi real quick here. I think that's appropriate, right here, but then I have to move them. When I say move, please, let us move. We'll be here all day, okay? Right. Question with this lady right here, because you've got beautiful hair. Actually, I have the microphone back here. I'm a cheerleader. Yeah, no, I think she's okay. What's your name? Mary. Mary, go for it. I'm a nurse and nurse assistant, I work in Dayton, Ohio, but anyway. So how, once you get this up and running, this nonprofit that you want to do, where will we find the information in order to donate, George? A podcast?

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're gonna make it loud, we'll put it online, it'll be on social media, and we will be talking.

• 1:10:57Speaker 04

  One more quick thing is, again, we need people who actually believe in helping. So nurses, doctors, psychiatrists, spouses have been through stuff, children. So we're trying to figure out how to do this with no money and just the goodwill of all of you. So we'll be out there.

• 1:11:19Speaker 06

  Okay, so this is the very last question, because it's been a long time, George said, and then I'm gonna let these gentlemen have the last words, so ask a question. Right, I will. My name's Ryan Wood, I've been in the field for 40 years, and I'm the curator of the Majestic documents and manage all of them on the Majestic documents website. The question for the panel, anyone, and thank you for your courage, is have you ever heard in a classified setting about Majestic 12 or MJ12 or anything like that? It's yes or no.

• 1:12:00Speaker 06

  It's yes or no, let people think.

• 1:12:02Speaker 04

  No, but if anybody did, they would have to say can't confirm or deny.

• 1:12:06Speaker 06

  Okay, thank you. Same?

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Correct, yeah.

• 1:12:10Speaker 06

  Okay, so I think they're telling you no, but if they could, they couldn't confirm or deny, it would have been a classified setting. So I want to thank you all for being here. You've heard what I've asked of you, which is just a let, say hi but let these guys go. I can't wait to hear from you and your stories, that's why we're here. Next up, George is doing a George and George thing, which is cool, and then we're gonna screen Sleeping Dog with a really cool panel, and the director's gonna talk, not me, the director. Thank you so much, you guys.