Karamo Brown on Finding Self-Love, Living Out Loud & Unlocking Your Authentic Self EP 1457

The Summit of Greatness is back! Buy your tickets today – summitofgreatness.comKaramo Brown, the renowned television host, Queer Eye Culture Expert, reality television personality, author, actor, and activist, has had a remarkable journey of personal transformation and advocacy. Overcoming challenges such as colorism, physical and emotional abuse, and addiction, he has become a prominent figure in the LGBTQ+ community. In his memoir, "Karamo: My Story of Embracing Purpose, Healing, and Hope," he emphasizes the importance of telling one's personal story to promote understanding and acceptance. Karamo's involvement with the Obama Administration in shaping policies for LGBTQ+ youth and communities has shaped his understanding of the impact of policy changes on marginalized groups. As the culture expert on Netflix's Queer Eye, he has touched the lives of many individuals, helping them embrace their true selves. Karamo's advocacy for mental health awareness and support highlights the intersection between mental health, success, and finding one's true purpose. With his new talk show, "Karamo," he aims to tackle important issues, particularly concerning the LGBTQ+ community. As a proud gay single father, he imparts valuable lessons to his sons. During Pride Month and beyond, Karamo believes that the most important message and action individuals and allies can take is to celebrate and advocate for LGBTQ+ rights. With his multifaceted roles, Karamo continues to balance his various responsibilities while prioritizing self-care and nurturing relationships. In this episode you will learn,Karamo’s battle with depression and the lessons it has taught him. The value of doing emotional homework to build your self esteem. Why happiness is a choice and how to actively pursue it on a daily basis. The 5 key things you should communicate with your partner on day one. How to find respect and love for those with completely different beliefs than your own. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1457Terry Crews on battling depression and embracing vulnerability: https://link.chtbl.com/1258-guestJosh Peck on becoming a father and discovering his new identity: https://link.chtbl.com/1261-guestJordan Fisher on fame and fatherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/1262-guest Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection. I've got an invitation for you. Join me at this year's Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness. This is the one time a year that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful transformative weekend. People come from all over the world and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Josprey Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Sanchero, and many more. You'll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  So if you're ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com/summit2023. Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I'll see you there.

• 1:01Karamo Brown?

  I don't use the term coming out. I think it's antiquated as I don't think that's actually the act. I think it's, I think we should be inspiring people to understand that the act actually is letting people in.

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:36Lewis Howes?

  Very excited to have you here because you have been leading the way and really in culture and humanity and helping people live more authentically in their lives through your story, through your message, through your own talk show.

• 1:52Lewis Howes?

  And through, again, the way you live your life. So again, I want to thank you for being here and thank you for living authentically.

• 1:58Karamo Brown?

  I appreciate that. Can I share with everybody what I just told you?

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure, go ahead.

• 2:01Karamo Brown?

  I'm a big fan and I spent the last, last year, I spent every morning waking up to you. Which for me, as someone who grew up in a, a Christian household where we woke up and we read the Bible,

• 2:13Karamo Brown?

  to have somebody that you want to replace that sort of like, the, um, the sort of connection that I got through feeling connected to spirituality with your words and your guests, powerful. So I'm so happy to be here.

• 2:26Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. I'm curious, uh, you know, one of the things I appreciate about you is your authenticity. And I'm curious, when do you think that became very important for you to live an authentic life and to speak into this for others? And also, was there ever a time you felt like you were very inauthentic in your life?

• 2:46Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, ages, um, five to, ages five to twenty-three, pretty much inauthentic. Um, authentic, inauthentic all the entire time.

• 2:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:00Karamo Brown?

  It was a survival mechanism because I started to identify as gay early on and I grew up in a immigrant household. So I'm first generation American. Um, my parent, my family's Jamaican and Cuban. There is, there was a lot of homophobia back then. We grew, um, you know, I went to predominantly white schools. Um, even though we were poor, my father used to do this sort of like, um, redlining where he'd find the apartment complex that was zoned to the right school, the, they, the, the richest school that had the most funding, the whitest school, so that we could have sort of a better education, he thought. And so that just caused me to have like, complete identity crisis. When you're coming into school with your lunches being

• 3:43Karamo Brown?

  curry goat and not peanut butter jelly sandwiches, you learn very quickly, you gotta figure out how to make people like you. And my authentic self at that time was not cool enough to people and I wasn't strong enough to be my authentic self.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:57Karamo Brown?

  Um, I had nicknames all through high school, through elementary school. It started off with unfortunately racist teachers, um, who-

• 4:07Lewis Howes?

  The teachers would call you nicknames?

• 4:08Karamo Brown?

  They would immediately. They would find, they would say it was difficult to even try my name. So within the first day of any class, it'd be- Kaka Camaro, Kuku, Kaka. You know what? I'm just gonna call you KK. I'm just gonna call you KB. I'm just gonna call you. At one point, I was called Jason, and this is not a lie. Anybody who went to high school with me from sophomore, um, freshman year to junior year might know me as Jason.

• 4:31Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 4:31Karamo Brown?

  I'm not joking. And don't ask me where Jason came from. You know what I mean? I also was known as Junior. Um, and I'm not a junior. Like, my father's name is not Karamo. I'm not a junior. But it was just because everyone felt that some other version of me was the better version.

• 4:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:48Karamo Brown?

  And I was not confident enough to tell them that the version of myself, just who I was, was enough. And I didn't have the language to know that. And I think most people, as you know, still deal with that, where somebody in your life tells you some part of your authentic version is not enough. And it is your job to have to understand that you have to fight against that. You have to practice behavior so that you believe it. And you have to let them know. Because that was the piece that was for me that was missing. Because as I started to find myself, I was like, but I still gotta let yo know that I am enough and that you don't get to give me a nickname. You don't get to tell me that my lunch is wrong. You don't get to tell me that my authentic self is not enough.

• 5:31Karamo Brown?

  And so after that, it was, it was, it was on the poppin'. Because at that point, I was like, I have nothing to lose now.

• 5:37Lewis Howes?

  Right. When, was there someone that inspired you to, to step into that authenticity and knowing that you were enough? Was there a moment? Was there a breakdown where you said, I'm gonna own who I am, fully, all parts of me?

• 5:47Karamo Brown?

  Um, I would say that it was hip hop culture in the 2000s, which might sound weird because, I mean, hip hop culture in those early 2000s wasn't so embracing of the LGBT community. But for me, um, you know, young 23 me, who was putting on a durag and a, a 4X white t-shirt, felt very confident in who I was because of watching these hip hop artists ascend to success, be confident. Um, I found an identity in that. Um, I found strength in that. And I walked through this world with those sort of like, you know, like, this is who I am. And so it wasn't a person, but it was these individuals that were like, these are, these are the communities I'm coming from.

• 6:28Karamo Brown?

  And even though they weren't my communities necessarily, I was inspired by it because hip hop just made me feel like I was invincible. And when you feel invincible... You then can start to think, well, then if if nothing can touch me, then your words don't matter. And what you are saying about me doesn't matter because who I am is going to walk through this world and be enough and be successful.

• 6:49Lewis Howes?

  Right. Wow.

• 6:50Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  What affected you more? Words that people said? Looks, you know, energy that they brought to you, just disapprovals of certain things about you. What was the thing that that affected you or hurt you more?

• 7:07Karamo Brown?

  It was definitely not the disapproval because you've never been an immigrant household. Like disapproval was like running rampant. You know what I mean? It was like.

• 7:13Lewis Howes?

  Never approval.

• 7:13Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, it was like it was like no, no A here. You what are you doing with your life? You know, like, so I was like, kind of immune to disapproval from people. I think it was, um, I think it was probably the words. I I turned six, two in the ninth grade and got a full beard by 10th grade. So I was kind of fine, you know, like back then I was kind of, I was kind of killing it. You know what I mean? Like, um, so I had this sort of like weird confidence from that. I'm joking like that's objective, um, but, um, I had a confidence in that. So like, people didn't really look at me or, you know, in those ways. It was more so like, as I would just start to share my truth.

• 7:56Karamo Brown?

  I was very keenly aware of their responses. And, um, I've always been a great listener. Um, when I was growing up, my granny used to tell me, you got two ears, one mouth. You're supposed to be doing one of those double time. And I still believe that today. I do more listening and asking a lot more questions than I do talking.

• 8:16Karamo Brown?

  And so because I was so keenly aware to what people were saying, I would analyze it and and let it like seep in.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 8:25Karamo Brown?

  Oh, my God.

• 8:26Lewis Howes?

  So those words would affect you deeply.

• 8:28Karamo Brown?

  I still like, you, you never had this, like, were you just in the shower or somewhere and all of a sudden you cringe? I call them cringe moments and all of a sudden you're thinking about something that happened 10 years ago and you're like. Did I do that? Oh my gosh, did I re- why didn't I say something? And you just, you start to play a moment in your life that shouldn't be out of your memory, but it just pops up. Has it ever happened to you?

• 8:46Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 8:47Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, happens to me and like.

• 8:48Lewis Howes?

  What was the thing that you remembered the most? That was the cringe-worthy moments, the memories that affected you years later.

• 8:55Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 8:55Lewis Howes?

  That still impacted you 10, 20 years after the fact.

• 8:58Karamo Brown?

  Um, I think a lot of it is like when I didn't stand up for myself. Like the moments that I knew, or I didn't stand up for someone else who was similar to me in identity or expression, and I saw that I had the power in that moment that I could have said something to change it, and I didn't, or I allowed someone to say something to me and I laughed it off. Like those are the moments where I cringe a lot and I'm more aware because like, you know, people say stuff and you're like, if you're, you're one of, out of a thousand in a, in a corporate environment, a school environment and, and your family, and someone says a joke and everyone else finds it funny and you have to kind of like, huh, yeah, you know, kind of laugh with it. Those moments now for me, I cringe on them and they'll pop up like the weirdest times.

• 9:42Karamo Brown?

  And I'll just be like, ah, I can't believe I let that, I can't believe I let that ride. I can't believe I let that slide.

• 9:49Karamo Brown?

  But I, I've gotten through those days because I practice a lot more patience and grace with myself.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, self-compassion and self-love.

• 9:55Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, I practice those things constantly.

• 9:57Lewis Howes?

  On a scale of one to 10, the self-love scale, if you were to assess yourself, where would you be? 10 being you love and accept yourself fully for who you are today.

• 10:08Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  One being you hate yourself completely and have no self-respect and no love. Where would you be in that scale in this moment?

• 10:14Karamo Brown?

  Right now?

• 10:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Karamo Brown?

  Today? I feel cute today, like, you know, my eyebrows are on fleek. I would say I'm a, I'm not a cute, cute nine right now, nine and a half, you know what I mean? I wouldn't say 10 because one of my biggest things, I always believe that we have to keep growing. And so like, I never want to hit the peak.

• 10:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 10:28Karamo Brown?

  I think growth is always great. Um, but one of the things that you've heard me say that I, I consistently try to teach people is that you have to practice, you know? No one told me when I was. No one told me my entire life until I figured it out that you have to practice your self-esteem. The same way you get up in the morning and you walk into the mirror and you wanna tear yourself apart immediately. You're like, oh, this doesn't fit. This doesn't look cute. Oh, I don't look great right here. Uh, and oh, look at my skin here. We practice saying negative things, but how often do we practice saying positive things? And so I practice my self-esteem consistently. So when I get a question of like, how much do you love yourself right now? It's always gonna be higher because I have now become an expert at practicing my self-esteem.

• 11:13Karamo Brown?

  But it doesn't mean that there's days that I need a little bit more practice. I need a little bit more effort in that practice, just like any, you know, you could play against a team and you can beat every single one on the sports team and then you get to that one that's like, hold on, we know what it is to challenge you and that's the day that I practice more. And those environments happen, like today I haven't had any, but there's been moments that I walk into, you know, networks and they'll say some BS and I'm like, okay, okay. If I let what you say to me get to me, it's going to destroy me. So right now I have to practice in the moment saying positive things about myself.

• 11:50Lewis Howes?

  You have a high level of self-esteem, but for those that are struggling with self-belief, self-confidence and believing they're worthy of more great things, what are a couple of key things that they could do on a daily basis to practice believing in themselves more? And actually feeling it and owning it, because it's one thing to say an affirmation in the mirror to yourself, but if you're like, well, I'm actually, don't believe this, how do you turn that into belief?

• 12:17Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, so one of the things that I don't like them affirmations really too much, I promise you. I don't give a lot of affirmations out. People always like, give me an affirmation I can say in the morning. And I'm like, girl, I got one for you. And the reason being is because affirmations remind me of those, um, you know, those live, love, play things you get from Marshalls? Yeah, um, and like those are cute to be on your wall. You'll look at it once, you'll feel like, oh, happy by it and then you forget it. And that's usually the way affirmations work, in my opinion. So for me, the first step always, if you're on that journey to find that self-love, is we gotta first figure out, when did you lose it?

• 12:55Karamo Brown?

  What was the cause? Like, I don't know any person who has ever solved a problem in their life without going back and figuring out what the first number meant and what the second number meant, or what the first word meant or what the second word meant. Like, you have to figure out where that started. Because that's going to be the key for you. Because I understood quickly that the first time that I didn't feel enough about myself came from my home life.

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:18Karamo Brown?

  It wasn't from outside of my home, it was in my home. I realized that having family members who told me what's to give me these contradicting messages of that I was, I could do it. You know, that, you know, like, you're gonna succeed, you're gonna be better than us, but at the same time criticize and critique so much about who I was that I started to lose a belief. And I realized that mixed messaging was part of what my self-esteem issue was. Because I allowed myself to be in companies or around in company of people that sent me mixed messages. And until I figured out that that was the area that started my journey of not loving who I was, I then was able to identify.

• 14:01Karamo Brown?

  And then when I got, I then started to say, okay, now that I know that's where it started. And that took some time to get there. So anybody listening and watching.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  So you had to reflect first.

• 14:09Karamo Brown?

  Reflection, reflection.

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  And you needed to see, okay, where did it start from? It started from seeing the criticism.

• 14:14Karamo Brown?

  And it takes time. It took a long time for me to be able to identify that. Because sometimes, like, when you have your family trauma, your, whatever trauma that you have dealt with that has led you to this place, I think we don't realize that if it took, if you're 30, 25, 50, and that trauma happened a long time ago and you haven't identified it, it's gonna take you a long time to backtrack. So be patient with yourself.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  If it was more recent trauma, you can handle it.

• 14:38Karamo Brown?

  You can handle it, yeah.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  Through it faster.

• 14:40Karamo Brown?

  Exactly.

• 14:40Lewis Howes?

  It must, still might take you time.

• 14:41Karamo Brown?

  Exactly. But be patient with yourself. And so, impatient. I took some time to do that. And then, once I figured it out, then I started to figure out what were versus the tools that I needed? And who are the people I needed to support me? Because I think that, you know, when I think of healing, I think of the sort of this triangle of like, I'm at the bottom, supporting it, but I do need sort of this support that's going to cover me from tools that you can receive from people like you and I, books, or and also people in my immediate circle who I could trust. And once you have that, that was what allowed me. And so I would focus on like, okay, what are my tools? What book can I read? What podcast? What can I go to to tell me how to deal with conflicting messages? Then what can I do?

• 15:26Karamo Brown?

  What people around me are going to be able to identify them? Because I'm not, I don't have the best identifier. I don't have the best identifier, because if I did, I wouldn't spend the last 15 years allowing this to affect me. So who could help? And I think if people could just take the time to do that, figure out some tools and figure out the people they trust who have identified, can identify for them. I think that's the first step on going on that journey. And then the easiest day to day step is just wake us up and practice saying something nice to yourself. And in the moment, when you say something mean, again, going to those people that you implored, I always tell people, get you a little army of people who can love you louder. I have an army of people who love me louder.

• 16:11Karamo Brown?

  That when I don't feel good, I literally will say, please love me louder. I don't need you to give me a plate of food, which is nice sometimes. I need you to tell me that the messages I heard are wrong and that I am enough. I need you to love me loud and publicly, because that does something to our souls. When you're, think about it, you walk into a room, people start applauding you, you are.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  The norphins arise, you know, you're like, I'm here.

• 16:36Karamo Brown?

  So have people in your life to do that for you. So it's an easy practice just to say, I'm, I'm good enough. Find one thing on yourself you love. One, one. And if you can't, find some people who can love you louder.

• 16:49Lewis Howes?

  What I'm hearing you say is that criticisms you heard, conflicting ideas, you can do it, I believe in you.

• 16:55Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  And you're not enough. And however that was said at home and certain people close to you was conflicting.

• 17:02Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Can I really do it or am I not enough?

• 17:04Karamo Brown?

  Exactly.

• 17:05Lewis Howes?

  How can we learn to take coaching from people we love, parents, siblings, partners, friends, without looking at it as criticism and feeling like we're never able to make it? How do we learn to decipher the information, the words, and not let it affect us so deeply?

• 17:25Karamo Brown?

  Mm hmm. That's a difficult process and I'm not going to even pretend. I think sometimes we try to give easy solutions and that is not easy because especially if you have trust issues. So are we speaking to people who have trust issues or we're speaking to people who don't have trust issues? Because if I have trust issues, it's going to take me a while to discern if your words or if your coaching, as you said, is really for my benefit. And what is the barometer or what is the scale that I use to, to allow myself to get in deep? And to maybe get hurt, but know that I can pull out versus someone who doesn't have trust issues. And it's gonna, it's easy, you know, if you don't have trust issues, it's gonna be easy. It's like, go ahead and just tell somebody clearly your boundaries.

• 18:08Karamo Brown?

  Tell them, this is what I need to hear and this is what I don't need to hear. Those things work for people because then you're able to take coaching because you know if they're, if they walked over your boundary. If you have trust issues, it feels like everybody's walking over your boundaries. And so when someone's trying to coach you, whether it's your mom, your sister, your cousin, you know, their impact, their intention and impact, we know about that. People have taught that on your show, intention versus impact, you know, like it might be your intention to one thing, but if it impacts me a certain way, it, it doesn't matter what your intention was. And so if you have trust issues, that's out the door immediately. And you can't just say to them, well, set a boundary because I got trust issues. And if I set a boundary and you even blink wrong.

• 18:48Karamo Brown?

  I'm cussing you out. You know what I mean? Like it's just the real of it. And, and I've dealt with a lot of people who have trust issues and I think for them.

• 18:56Karamo Brown?

  It's more of an individual process and I I I'm leery to give individuals with trust issues.

• 19:02Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 19:02Karamo Brown?

  Advice without knowing exactly.

• 19:05Lewis Howes?

  What's going on, yeah, yeah.

• 19:05Karamo Brown?

  What it is. What, just to be honest.

• 19:07Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure, sure. What's the big, I mean, you you've had an amazing career. Um, it's hard to.

• 19:13Karamo Brown?

  You've asked me to highlight is right here being on the School of Greatness.

• 19:18Karamo Brown?

  I just told you I started my morning with you for a year, okay?

• 19:22Lewis Howes?

  You've had an amazing career, though, in the last, you know, really 20 years. And it's hard to really make yourself known in LA and in Hollywood on TV. It's really challenging. Uh, and you've done it in a lot of different formats with your own talk show. With Queer Eye, which has taken over the world by storm in a positive way.

• 19:42Karamo Brown?

  Thanks.

• 19:43Lewis Howes?

  But I know behind the scenes, there had to be some challenges and adversities, you know, public facing, everything looks like. You're on top of the world and you have this positive life and you're impacting all these lives. But what has been the biggest challenge over these last 20 years that you've had to face? Whether it be personally or professionally?

• 20:01Karamo Brown?

  Oh, um, managing the importance of other people's opinions.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 20:07Karamo Brown?

  It's constant. I mean, it goes back to exactly what my beginning issue was and it was, it sticks with you and I. I can only imagine what what studies will be doing in 10 years for this generation when it comes to like. Managing the importance of people's opinions, because as much as we hear everybody on social media say, it doesn't matter, don't look at the comments, don't do this, don't do that. You know, it affects you. And in this business, um, the comments and what people say. It's it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. And so I think that's the thing. That has always gotten me because even before it was comments on social media, it was industry professionals.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, it was the critics, the press, the ratings.

• 20:48Karamo Brown?

  Ratings, critics, yeah, but also like your team members who, yeah. Who will say things to you that could be just the most hurtful and the most.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  Team. Like, what would they say?

• 21:01Karamo Brown?

  So they think they're being helpful, you know, I've never had anybody, like, I play football, so. I had coaches critique my body and it felt normal because they were building my body to be able to compete in this sport. Being in television, for some reason, the commenting on our bodies, when we're not doing anything physical, like I could, I could understand if I was in WWE and, you know, was on TNT every night, you know, whatever. Understand, talk to me, you're my agent, talk to me about what my physical body looks like. But if I'm going in for a role and the casting director likes it,

• 21:41Karamo Brown?

  why do you feel the need to critique, you know, like, why do you feel the need to say something? And, um, and it's, it's, that's the thing that just gets you because you have to navigate the importance of like, whose voice matters? And it took a lot of practice and time for me to figure out how to be louder than other people's comments. Really? Yes, it took me a lot, it took me time to learn how to speak up when I hear other people's comments. It took me time, um, to not internalize other people's comments because, you know, there was a moment when I thought like I was so healed, like if you'd have caught thirty-two-year-old me. You thought you were healed, like nothing could affect you. He was Superman. Really?

• 22:21Karamo Brown?

  Oh my gosh, it was like, you say something to me, oh my gosh, I'm gonna tell you, you're wrong, you're wrong, this is not who I am, you're not gonna critique me like that. And then I'd go home and it'd be running like a broken record in my head. Because it was like, once it penetrated my subconscious, it was done. Because it just connected to some other, some other memory that I had and it just said, you know, the word trigger, it triggered it. And, and so that has been the hardest part of constantly, you know, I'm at a place now where it doesn't really matter that much anymore. Um, but it's still days that, you know, what people's opinions and I, I mean, not just on social media, how it affects me. And I literally have to sit myself down and take, I have notes in my phone, I can show you later, and I will

• 23:04Karamo Brown?

  write down what it was that is lingering, what their words said, and I just do the work. You know, um, I do the work on my self-esteem, I do the, I do the homework to figure out why these things are bothering me so much. What's the thing that bothers you the most? Um, what used to bother me the most?

• 23:23Lewis Howes?

  What used to and what's the thing that bothers you the most?

• 23:26Karamo Brown?

  Um, cause like right now, like I said, I'm in a good place. Like now things are like, I'm pretty, yeah. Like you have a, you know, it's one thing to be on Netflix and have a show. Once you get on daytime TV and it's five days a week, people got everything to say about you. And so I think, um, people used to challenge my blackness, which is weird.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  How so?

• 23:46Karamo Brown?

  Well, you know, I understand people's in this, in this, I'm just gonna be real with you on this is not like, but this is, um, because I had a white partner for 10 years and there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of representation in LGBT community of couples that are of the same race. And for a long time, when I was, you know, 23, I was on MTV's Real World. It was my mission to make sure that I'm putting out a certain image. And then I hit 30 and I fell in love with somebody who was the first white guy I ever dated. I had never dated before and, and I went, I was celebrating my love and sharing it with the world. And then I just started like getting critiqued of like, oh, he's this guy that he don't wanna be wrong, black folk, you know, this or that. Yeah.

• 24:29Karamo Brown?

  It's ironic because a lot of people who have different identities get challenged if people feel like they're not living up to that identity. And, um, that was hard for me because it was like, my partner didn't define or change me being black. It didn't define that the experiences, it didn't change the experiences that I had walking through the world. But I also understood people wanted to see, they wanted to see themselves reflected in the world. And I think there was a large amount of pressure that I put on myself of like, does their words matter more than the happiness I have with this human being?

• 25:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 25:04Karamo Brown?

  And so, you know, to correlate what, you know, this whole thing. And that was something that like bothered me for a very long time because many arguments in my relationship where I was willing, we were happy and then I would just almost sabotage it because I was like,

• 25:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:18Karamo Brown?

  No.

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  You would sabotage it, but you knew that this was, you guys were having fun. It was a great connection.

• 25:22Karamo Brown?

  Happy. He was a great stepfather to my kids and

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  But you would sabotage it?

• 25:27Karamo Brown?

  I would literally sabotage it because I would see something online that someone would say like, oh yeah, here goes another black gay guy dating a white guy. And I would be like, you know what? I'm tired of your, I'm breaking up. And I would sabotage my own happiness because of, I couldn't navigate someone else's comments about me.

• 25:46Karamo Brown?

  I couldn't navigate and manage what was important. And I couldn't, I couldn't navigate. How do you? How do you want to, because we're givers. We want to give people what they, what they desire so that they can feel seen and they can feel heard. That's always been my intention. Um, and as I got older, I realized that can be a fine line with people pleasing, you know? And so, yeah. And so it was something that bothered me that then I had to grow through and say, well, how do I define? I have this one life. This is mine. This is all I have. And if I fall in love with who I fall in love with. I would love for it to be what other people want it to be, but it can only be what I.

• 26:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 26:26Karamo Brown?

  What it is for me. And I've learned that now. And now I don't put these pressures on myself to live up to anyone's expectations.

• 26:36Karamo Brown?

  I, you know, I, I love who I love and that's just what it is. And, and I, I encourage, I encourage the media when now this is where I've shifted. I encourage them to now highlight. Don't highlight my relationship, highlight the ones that are not seen enough. And that's sort of like where I've learned. How do you navigate a voice and how do you navigate that? Like, it's not about me anymore. But if I can support you with the small bit of power that I have to help someone else. Else's love or relationship be seen, then that is what I should be doing here. So that that person who needs something to feel seen and feel like they're heard can still get it. But it doesn't have to be on me anymore.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. How has things shifted in, you know, being in a different relationship? Knowing what you know about the past, sabotaging certain things. Do those tendencies come up sometimes?

• 27:24Karamo Brown?

  Nah, I don't sabotage anymore. Again, my happiness is my happiness and it feels good to say that. And I tell people that all the time. I'm like, my happiness is my happiness. And you don't get to dictate my happiness. And I don't go home and I don't, I don't spiral over someone's. Um, opinion of my happiness. Um, I don't spiral anymore over someone's.

• 27:47Karamo Brown?

  Someone's, um, I'm not even gonna go there. I don't just spiral anymore over anyone's opinion of my happiness. And it's a beautiful freeing thing.

• 27:56Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think it's so hard for a lot of people in the world to be happy for what they want? And not worry about the opinions of others, the criticism, the comments, the, or, or needing other people to do things for them to be happy in, in a way that they want it? Why do you think it's so hard for people to be happy?

• 28:18Karamo Brown?

  Well, most people haven't made the choice to be happy. Um, and that's just the truth. I was doing this speaking event the other day. And for some reason on my heart, I just asked the audience, how many of you are choosing to be happy? How many of you wake up in the morning and make that a choice that you make? The same way you choose what shirt you're gonna put on and choose what outfit you're gonna wear? And choose what cologne or perfume or whatever it is. You know, the same way you choose to put gas in your car. How many of you choose to be happy? And most people don't. Like I told you, when I said I, I was listening to you every day. That was part of my regimen to choose my happiness. It was like, what is going to feed me this moment so that I could get the fuel I needed?

• 29:02Karamo Brown?

  So every single day I could go out there and choose happiness. And it sounds, it sounds so woo woo and you know, like you want me to choose happiness? And the answer is yes, I really want you to choose happiness. Because if you don't choose happiness, the world will choose something else for you. The world will choose stress for you. The world would choose over being overwhelmed. The world would choose sadness. The world would choose all these other things for you if you don't choose happiness. And when you start to practice choosing happiness, you'll see how many things you'll walk away from. You'll see how many things you won't allow affect you. And so I think that's the first step that people have to do is start to choose happiness. And I'm not some guru for saying that. It's something that people have been telling us for years, but no one is telling us that it is a daily practice.

• 29:47Karamo Brown?

  Wake up and choose happiness because you deserve happiness.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Amen to that.

• 29:54Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 29:54Lewis Howes?

  I, I can hear you say this and I'm in the same frequency. This is something that I do consistently. It's a choice for me.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  Even when I feel overwhelmed or stressful moments, I, I shift into happiness pretty quickly because I have perspective. I just got back from Guatemala. I was in the jungle around kids that really have nothing. We're building schools out there and they're just happy to have a place to go and learn.

• 30:18Karamo Brown?

  Yes.

• 30:18Lewis Howes?

  They get maybe a meal a day, you know, tin huts, eight people in one room, but they're happy.

• 30:24Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Lewis Howes?

  And so having that perspective allows me to, doesn't mean I still don't have challenges and problems and things happen, but shifting into perspective and gratitude allows me to choose happiness a lot better. For those listening or watching who are thinking, this sounds great to choose happiness, but I'm broke, I'm in debt, I'm in a really toxic relationship. You know, I'm a single mom, I got four kids that I'm taking care of. I, I, I can't even manage my own life, let alone everything else. What do you say to people who are in those situations that are struggling to choose happiness because it just feels like there's so much chaos in their life?

• 30:59Karamo Brown?

  Well, first of all, I acknowledge the chaos. And I think it's important that we don't give some false perception that when life is hard, that we can't acknowledge that it is hard. I have been there. Like, I, I remember when I got out of depression, you know, I had a suicide attempt and then I became a father of two quickly. Of, um, you know, my kids were 10 and seven and I did not know how to parent. I didn't have no money. I was choosing whether I gave my kids gas money, I mean, gave my kids lunch money or putting gas in my car. And things were difficult. The relationship that I was in was bad. It was unhealthy. And so I understand all of that list you just said.

• 31:41Karamo Brown?

  And back then I didn't choose happiness because of course, like you just expressed, you don't know how. You know, when there is darkness around you, you, it is very difficult to see it and I acknowledge that. And so I will, I don't want somebody to feel alone and being like, well, maybe I'm just, because you'll end up getting into a cycle being harder on yourself. And you start beating yourself up because the world is beating you up. And in that moment, what I did is realize I get to say that this is the world.

• 32:13Karamo Brown?

  This is the world that the circumstances I was born into or situations that I found myself in because of choices I didn't know. The first way I used to choose happiness is I used to say something. There was a song and I wish I could remember the artist's name. She'd say, "I'm a young soul. I came to this strange..." You know that song?

• 32:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:32Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Lewis Howes?

  I don't know the lyrics, but I know.

• 32:34Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, it don't matter who that was. But I used to give myself some grace and I would say, "You're a young soul. You're, you're, you don't know. You didn't know." And that one statement that came from that song gave me just a bit to see that I could choose happiness because of the fact that I realized I didn't know this all. So now I've no, I'm a young soul. I didn't know it. So, okay, so these things are happening. What can I learn from each of them? And when I say, "What can I learn from each of them?", was my next step of saying, "Learning is me choosing happiness in this moment." So I think we have to understand how to define happiness in our darkest moments or redefine

• 33:18Karamo Brown?

  happiness so that way you can then feel better. Because learning for me, acknowledging that I was a young soul and I wasn't supposed to know everything, was made me just a little happiness. It was a redefinition. Me then deciding to learn how to, I remember in the first book I, I got on how to be a better parent. I was like, "I'm so happy right now because I'm taking a step to learn."

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes, you're getting a tool.

• 33:42Karamo Brown?

  I'm getting a tool. Back to that little triangle, getting a tool. And that tool for me made me happy. So I just spent the next couple of years of redefining over and over again what happiness looked like in the moment I was in. And I think if more people can do that, instead of looking at happiness is supposed to be on the beach, happiness is, you know, smiling kids. I don't know what happiness is supposed to be for you because like, some days I'm like, "Okay, these kids just got out of school, went to school on time." You know, like, I didn't get a call from a teacher. I am happy. Like, I redefine happiness to that, that milestone. And then later on, I was like, "Oh, my gosh, now I'm working on my career and I'm doing this." And then I redefine happiness again.

• 34:25Karamo Brown?

  So I think the redefining happiness for you and wherever you are is, is going to be a helpful tool of, like you said, practicing that gratitude and recognizing happiness.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  Speaking about your kids, what's been the greatest lesson that your kids have taught you?

• 34:41Karamo Brown?

  They don't teach me anything. I was okay.

• 34:45Karamo Brown?

  I mean, it's a million things they teach me. My sons make me a better communicator.

• 34:52Karamo Brown?

  My kids are the best mirror for me if I allow it. And that's a big thing because a lot of parents don't allow it. They don't allow their kids to be the mirrors that they need. And it wasn't even sometimes with the words they said. You know. I worked in social services for many years. And I remember just coming home and being impatient. Because I was so stressed from work. And my kids' problems just seem so small. And there's nothing like being like, you know what, just look at all you have. Be happy for what you have. Saying that to a child and then looking at you like, like, what did I do? That you learn really quickly like, wow, I'm being impatient to your young life.

• 35:35Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, of course, you don't know what's going on in the world, so this is your world.

• 35:38Lewis Howes?

  And they're a young soul.

• 35:39Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, you're a young soul. This is your world. And in your world, this is a big problem for you. And so I had to have empathy towards that.

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  It may not be a problem for you because you overcame it 20 years prior.

• 35:51Karamo Brown?

  20 years prior. And so with them, they just taught me like, be introspective in that way, like, you know. I watched this YouTube video today where this guy was in a mall and he was being interviewed by some YouTuber, you know, TikToker. And someone walked past them in the camera. And the guy who was interviewing said, look, look at this. Like, he just walked. He so wouldn't. He walked past us while we're filming. And the other guy speaking to him said, well, maybe we don't look at it as he's being malicious. Maybe he's in his head because something does happen. And maybe like, we have to just understand that like, he's a human being going through a lot of stuff. And maybe he's just unaware. Like, many of us are unaware as we walk through this world. And like, and it's like, wow. And my kids did that for me, the same perspective he gave, my kids gave me that to me.

• 36:35Karamo Brown?

  So when I'm talking to someone, I always stop myself and I say,

• 36:40Karamo Brown?

  They're going through their own stuff. So right now, I need to be empathetic to where they're at. And I'm not going to be impatient because they're not growing at the pace that I want them to grow at. Or I'm not going to have this expectation of where they should be or what they should know. Because I assume that they should know it. And my kids definitely taught me that. And that came from me just looking at my, how I reacted to them, realizing that I need to react even better to them. And I need to react better to the world around me.

• 37:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow. One of the big challenges I see a lot of people face with is figuring out relationships in general, but typically intimate relationships.

• 37:16Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Lewis Howes?

  And I know you coach a lot of people on your talk show and also on Queer Eye. You guys work with people in their relationships, in their intimacy and how to really become better human beings. Why do you think people struggle so much in intimacy? And I know you and I have struggled in our past.

• 37:34Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we talked about it beforehand, yeah.

• 37:38Lewis Howes?

  But why do you think it's so challenging just for a lot of people?

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  To create like harmony, peace in a relationship, not a perfection.

• 37:47Karamo Brown?

  Most of the people don't have the models of it. And the models we're given, you know, is so dated. I mean, like, people have said this a million times over, but like, think about it, as kids, you know, as much as I love the new Disney movie, Halle Berry is, um, Ha- Ha- Halle Berry is, or Hailey Bailey is just killing it. Uh, I'm like, the first model we gave to little girls was like, give up your voice for a man. You know, like, we like, drop a shoe behind, you know what I mean? Like, I remember the first time I went to a guy's house and I left something behind. It was like, that's toxic. And I did that because, you know, Cinderella told me, girl, you leave a shoe behind, he gonna come find you. He's gonna invite you back and it's not true.

• 38:21Lewis Howes?

  Or Beauty and the Beast, let me make you a prisoner.

• 38:23Karamo Brown?

  Let me make you a prisoner. Abuse you.

• 38:25Lewis Howes?

  And then have you fall in love with me.

• 38:26Karamo Brown?

  Fall in love with me. I mean, come on. And so we don't, most of us don't have the right models. We never got them, we might not have seen in our home. And if we did see in our home where it was really healthy, most of the times, our parents didn't really tell us the struggles because every relationship has issues. And the ones that are perfect have stayed together for 40 years, 50 years, usually aren't as transparent as they need to be about the struggles they had. I remember Michelle Obama, you know, a couple of months back got in trouble because she had said, she's been with Barack for 30 years and 10 of them were bad. And she said, I'll take those odds. And a lot of people were like, what you're taking ten odds? And she wasn't saying ten consecutive years of like, I'm being abused.

• 39:07Karamo Brown?

  She was saying within that, there are a lot of times that you have to work a little bit harder. And you have to communicate a little bit better. And I think most of us don't have the models. So for me, what I've started doing now to have healthy relationships is from day one. Date one, and this is a cute thing you should do. Day one or date one? Day one or date one? Um, I say to my partner, the five things, or the person I'm talking to, the five things that I think I need in this moment to have a healthy relationship. And I ask them, what are the five things they need? Wow, what are those five things for you? Oh, I need communication. I need sensitivity. Sensitivity slash empathy. Um, I need adventure.

• 39:53Karamo Brown?

  Um, I need sexuality and sensuality. I need a lot of that. Um, and I need a lot of vulnerability. Um, which is different than the sensitivity empathy. Um, for me. And those things right there, it's like, let's just get this out the way. Do you understand what those five things mean? And if you don't, I can give you some time to explain what those things are. So when I say I need adventure, it doesn't mean that I'm trying to, we need to be jumping out of planes every weekend. But it does mean at least once a month, we need to be a priority. And we need to find something that's out of our everyday life to do together. Because I don't ever want to get into a routine with you.

• 40:32Karamo Brown?

  When I see, say that I need communication, that means that in the hardest moments of our life, I need to know that you're not going to walk away, that you're going to talk to me. It doesn't mean that I can't give you space to cool off or to, you know, get your time. But even that is a little bit of a different conversation of like, what is that space and time? And I think too many people go through the happiness and the joy and like, oh, the excitement and the endorphins of it all. And then when those moments come, you have no baseline to say, well, I told you these were what I needed. And I don't know what you need either, because you never told me. What are the things that are important to you? Because I think the more you can be honest and transparent about what you need.

• 41:14Karamo Brown?

  And not being like, well, I need some money, you know, money and I need, like, no. Like, because it's really more of that emotional and mental thing that you need, that in the hardest moments is going to, what's going to make you or break you. Yes. Can you be sensitive to me being sensitive? That's a big thing for me because I'm a Scorpio and I'm sensitive as hell. You say the wrong thing and I'm like, I'm like, hold on, I'm, I'm over it, you know, right now. And like, I'm like, hold on, do I strike back or do I, do I go into like, cry right now? I don't know. And so can you be sensitive to that? Um, is that too much for you? And I think that if more people could have those conversations from day one to create a foundation and understand that those things could change and you gotta check back in on those things.

• 41:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:59Karamo Brown?

  Because in three years, that might not be what I need anymore. And it might not be, your list might not be what you need, but are you really having those conversations? And if you're already deep into a relationship and you see that there's areas that, you know, you need to work on, go back to the basics and say, what are the five things you need? What are the five things that you need that are gonna make you feel? Because like sexual, you know, sensuality and sexuality and that stuff for me. A lot of people get older and/or even young relationships and it starts to become not a priority for one partner or for both. And that could break people up.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:34Karamo Brown?

  Or make them start to cheat. So we have to come back together and reengage like, what is the level of sexual intimacy that you need so we stay connected?

• 42:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So you, you come to these five things, day one, this is what you did with your current partner?

• 42:47Karamo Brown?

  Day one. Now, I told you the day me and my partner met, I thought it was a booty call.

• 42:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Karamo Brown?

  And then we spent eight hours together, not even a single drip, talking. And that was on the list of things we talked about.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  That's one of the things you talked about.

• 42:57Karamo Brown?

  He showed me his bank account the first night.

• 43:00Lewis Howes?

  Wait, the number to log in or how much he had in the bank account?

• 43:02Karamo Brown?

  He showed me his bank account.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:04Karamo Brown?

  And it wasn't something that was like, I'm showing off. It was, we were having a conversation about financial stability.

• 43:09Lewis Howes?

  That, that's so important to talk about all the, maybe it's not day one for everyone in every like dating experience, but I think it is so important.

• 43:17Karamo Brown?

  Why can't it be day one? Let's, let's have our conversation. Why can't it be?

• 43:20Lewis Howes?

  I agree because this is what I did with, with Martha, my girlfriend. The first day, we had a lot of these conversations and one of the things that we talked about was priorities. This wasn't day one, but this was pretty quick within our dating experience before we got committed and exclusive. She was like, What are your priorities in life? Yeah. The old priorities question that every man gets eventually, right? And I said, are you sure you want to hear the truth? Yeah. Because in the past, I felt like I had to skirt around the truth because there would be triggers or fear or reactions. I said, are you sure you want to hear it? She said, yes. I go, you may not like what I'm about to say.

• 44:00Lewis Howes?

  And you may not want to hang out with me anymore. So just be aware, you're asking for this. Yeah. She said, what is it? And I said, my number one priority is not you. If we get into this committed relationship. And no woman wants to hear or no other partner wants to hear, you're not number one. Now, there's context around this. Yes, of course. My number one priority is my health. My spiritual, emotional, physical health. Yes. Because if I have bad health, I'm not going to be good for you. So for me, that's why my health is my top priority. So that I can be of service to my number two priority, which is still not you. Doesn't mean you're not a top priority, but the number two priority at this season of my life is my mission.

• 44:44Lewis Howes?

  My purpose, what I feel like I'm called to do at this season. Yes. And that is what I'm up to currently. And it doesn't mean I'm not, I'm going to neglect you. I'm not going to have time for you, but you need to make sure that you don't pull me from my mission. That you support me and elevate me in being of service to my mission. Cause it's important to me. And if I feel like I'm pulled from it, then I'm probably going to resent the relationship. But if you are a full alignment that my number one and number two priorities and what they are, you're going to feel like the biggest priority in the world. You're going to feel like number one. You're going to, you're going to be, have more time for me than ever before. You're going to get the best of me. And you're going to have everything you want. Let me tell you something, this is why I was listening to you every morning for a year.

• 45:28Lewis Howes?

  But let me tell you something, you ever been to a black church? Did you go to a black church and come and drop this knowledge? Cause you just, the passages came out in you. That is amazing. But I think, Good job. You know, either I was attracting certain people or that weren't able to hear it with the context. Yes. Again. Most people don't want to hear, I'm entering a relationship and you're not going to be my number one or two priority. But it's again, building the context around it. Make sure that you let you support me in going to the gym, doing therapy, doing things to support my growth. You support me in my mission. You you push me to go do it. And I'm going to give you all of me.

• 46:07Karamo Brown?

  So we are in line to what we're doing. We immediately told our partners what we need. And then there from there, it starts to expand. I would tell you to stop prefacing with, you might not like this.

• 46:17Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 46:18Karamo Brown?

  Because that you're you're already setting them up for something that you're you're unconsciously telling them and it's like, they should like this. And they should then learn from it. Oh, of course, that's why you're together.

• 46:27Lewis Howes?

  Right away, she goes, yes, she told me like, yes, because she goes, every person I've been with didn't have a purpose.

• 46:34Karamo Brown?

  Hmm.

• 46:35Lewis Howes?

  Maybe they had some skill or something they were doing, but they didn't love it.

• 46:38Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  They weren't fully invested in their mission in life. And they made her their purpose. This is what she told me.

• 46:45Karamo Brown?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  Then they're like, you're my purpose. She was like, no, I don't want that.

• 46:49Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 46:49Lewis Howes?

  I want you to go do your thing and then we can do things together.

• 46:52Karamo Brown?

  Amen.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  And so, you know, she's on, she was on a healing journey, so she was more conscious in that way that she wasn't insecure if her partner was out in the world doing their thing. So. But I think having those conversations like we did early on, for me, has set me up for a lot more peace and harmony. Again, there's there's there's uh misunderstandings and we got to go through stuff all the time, but it's harmonious in those misunderstandings.

• 47:19Karamo Brown?

  Have to go reevaluate my list because I'm going to have to tell Carlos. My my new number one, Carlos, is me. Um, I'm too codependent for that. It's not happening.

• 47:27Lewis Howes?

  It's not about like me.

• 47:28Karamo Brown?

  No, no, I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you. But no, I I I joke because I actually think it's beautiful and I think it's something that should be taught more. And I think I unconsciously know how to do that already. But I think the language that you provide in that is what is why why I just said, mm, amen, that need more people need to hear that is because that is such a powerful thing to be able to admit to someone else that my health and who I am is a priority. And I think it's beautiful because it just sets the tone. And you and I now are in a healthy relationship. You know, we're we're both praying that we continue to grow with this person. Um, the people that we're with, but. At least it's healthy where we're at because of the fact that we made the choice to be honest and direct about what our foundation is.

• 48:10Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 48:11Karamo Brown?

  And I just wish more people could do that.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  I didn't do it for, you know, in my teens and twenties and early thirties. I didn't know how to do that because there was more of a chemical connection.

• 48:25Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 48:25Lewis Howes?

  That was fun and exciting and interesting, but I didn't have the courage to have those conversations. I lacked the emotional flexibility, awareness, vulnerability to really dive in spiritually first.

• 48:41Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Lewis Howes?

  And that that chemical bonding created a heightened emotional experience. I was like, okay, let's just have more fun together. Yeah. Let's just hang out. Let's do this adventure. Let's do this as opposed to having those conversations. And one of the early exercises we did, the first day we met each other, I was actually like, listen, I'm on a healing journey and I'm going to continue on this journey for the rest of my life. And we made an agreement early on before we got committed that we would do therapy together in the start of the relationship. Doesn't mean we're going every week or something like that, but just having someone we can both go to and just talk about our values.

• 49:14Karamo Brown?

  It is the best.

• 49:15Lewis Howes?

  Our vision from the beginning.

• 49:17Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Lewis Howes?

  And it has given us so much peace because we create agreements. There aren't expectations. It's agreements early on. And creating alignment around agreements.

• 49:27Karamo Brown?

  Yes.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  And for me, that has given us just more. It gives me peace of mind.

• 49:31Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 49:31Lewis Howes?

  More energy in my life. So that's one of the things that I feel like a lot of people, if they started to do these exercises early on, it would save them pain later.

• 49:40Karamo Brown?

  I a hundred thousand percent agree with you.

• 49:42Lewis Howes?

  We did another one where I said, let's do an exercise on values. I want you to have a notebook and me have a notebook. I'm going to give you, you know, five minutes. I put some meditative music on. I said, I want you to write your values down. Don't show them to me. I let her do this. Then I did it for myself. And then we shared them together without me seeing them first and be like, let me write down her values.

• 50:08Lewis Howes?

  And say, do we truly have alignment? It doesn't have to be a perfect match, but are we in alignment on our values?

• 50:14Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  Because if we're completely off, I mean, I might like you, we might have connection, but that might be a struggle in the future.

• 50:22Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't mean we can't work, but it just may be, it's just information.

• 50:25Karamo Brown?

  How often do you, how quickly do you do the values? I did the values thing with Carlos.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  We did that in the first month.

• 50:29Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, same. We did it first month. Yeah.

• 50:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was powerful. It was powerful.

• 50:32Karamo Brown?

  Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Keep going.

• 50:33Lewis Howes?

  You're good. Yeah. The values exercise was a great one. And for me, you know, the foundation really starts with values, shared vision and shared lifestyle, you know? And if you can get, it doesn't have to be everything perfect and the same. She grew up in Mexico. I grew up in Ohio, you know, we, she grew up in a different religious background, but we have similar values.

• 50:51Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 50:52Lewis Howes?

  And I think that's what has allowed us to both feel peaceful at this season of life.

• 50:57Karamo Brown?

  You know, it's funny because we had that value conversation, like I said, within that first, first three weeks or whatever. And Carlos, um, though older in his thirties, um, had not let his family into his life regarding his sexual orientation. And so none of his family members, except for one brother who was also identified as gay, knew that he had any boyfriends prior, never.

• 51:21Lewis Howes?

  They didn't know or they just didn't choose to see it?

• 51:22Karamo Brown?

  They didn't know because he had never talked to them. He never let them in. I don't use the term coming out. I think it's antiquated as I don't think that's actually the act. I think it's, I think, um, we should be inspiring people to understand that the act actually is letting people in. And I think when you change the line, not coming out.

• 51:38Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 51:39Karamo Brown?

  People in, because when you come out to someone, you're giving them the power to accept or deny you versus when you're letting someone in, you're saying, this is my choice. I'm empowered to let you in or to tell you that you don't deserve to be in. You need to stay out. It's more of a protection. Um, and also I've never come out of anything and I don't know where that closet is. I don't know where that closet is.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  You haven't been hiding in a closet.

• 52:00Karamo Brown?

  If there's a closet, there better be a pot of gold in there for all the BS I've been through to pay me back. And I'm gonna burn the closet down after. So I say letting in, but Carlos had never let anyone into his life, not ever. And so when we did that values conversation, I said, family. Is important to me. My family and I travel. We do every holiday. It is big. And I was like, it's also extremely important that your family's there. Because I'm not one of those individuals that like, I want my partner to be just absorbed into my family. I want to absorb into their family as well. And I said, is that a pri- is that a value that you have where family and family bonding and love is important?

• 52:40Karamo Brown?

  He said, it is. And I said, well, I'm not going to pressure you to let anyone in because that's not my journey. But we have to figure out how do those values align? And I fell in love with him because he literally went home, called me two days later and was like, I've thought about it and I think it's time that I started making the steps to let my family in. And literally a week later told his mother, literally, I'm the first, told his brother, I'm the first partner his family has ever met and they are at my house every, our house, every Christmas, Thanksgiving, everything. Because it was a value conversation we had to have and I wasn't afraid to have it. And he was mature enough to know that he had to do the work. So I'm with you on that value.

• 53:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 53:23Karamo Brown?

  This little personal story about my life.

• 53:25Lewis Howes?

  No, it's beautiful. It's interesting because I like this conversation around letting people in. And I think, you know, I can't, I can't understand your experience and what you've had to do to let people in with that conversation. But I think a lot of it ties to maybe a shame around society or where you might feel like you don't fit in or where maybe people might shame you or they might judge you for something that you've gone through or you're experiencing.

• 53:53Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  And it, and I lived with the shame for 25 years. I was sexually abused when I was a kid by a man that I didn't know.

• 54:00Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Lewis Howes?

  And for 25 years, no one knew because I wouldn't let them in.

• 54:04Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 54:05Lewis Howes?

  Again, I wasn't in some closet hiding, but I wouldn't let people in because I felt if people knew this about me, no one would love me.

• 54:11Karamo Brown?

  Yes.

• 54:11Lewis Howes?

  No one would accept me. I'd be kicked out of the family. My friends would laugh at me and make fun of me. You know, growing up as a straight white man in Ohio, um, if I, and I was very affectionate with my guy friends. Like I'd put my arm around them. I wanted to hug people. When I met you, we hugged each other and I'm like, like, don't let go. Let's hold each other longer.

• 54:31Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Lewis Howes?

  But I would get made fun of for just putting my arm around a brother of mine, right? Or I'd be called names, or I'd be pushed, or whatever it was.

• 54:39Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  And so I was afraid if people knew this about me, no one would accept me or love me. And it got to the point where I started to open up about it.

• 54:49Karamo Brown?

  And also we live in a society where you express that, all of a sudden, they start to label you as every bit of gay, whatever, whatever BS that comes with it.

• 54:56Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. And I remember as I started to to explore opening up to my family about it when I was thirty years old, ten years ago. I talked to a therapist friend of mine and I go, I'm really afraid to tell my family this because I don't know how they're gonna react. Do you have any advice on what I can maybe do and approach? And she said, before you essentially let them in, set the context and ask them a question. And the question is, is there anything I could ever say or do that would make you not love me? And then see how they respond. If they give you some hesitation, maybe you don't share, you don't let them in. If you feel like they are willing to receive whatever you're about to share with them,

• 55:41Lewis Howes?

  um, then maybe you can open your heart and let them in. And that was a powerful exercise for me to, to do that with all my family members and then eventually with my friends, which actually scarier with friends for me.

• 55:51Karamo Brown?

  Of course.

• 55:52Lewis Howes?

  Like guy friends, are they really gonna accept me? My family has to accept me, right? But are friends gonna accept me, you know, in the business world, all these things.

• 56:00Lewis Howes?

  How, what's a great approach that you think people can use today to let people in with whatever thing that might be they're afraid of?

• 56:09Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Lewis Howes?

  Whether it's a shame and insecurity, um, something about their identity that they're afraid that people won't accept them. What's something they could, could do to feel ready to let others in?

• 56:20Karamo Brown?

  I think first practicing that, practicing, which is my key word, I should get it tattooed on me. Practicing, understanding that all parts of who you are are powerful. All parts of your story are, are, are not shameful. They're not, they're not ugly.

• 56:39Karamo Brown?

  They're beautiful, all parts of your story. And I've learned that through my life, every part of my story, I love. I love every part of my story, the darkest parts, the lightest parts. And I think practicing, understanding that gives you sort of a power and an understanding to know that there's not a part of my story, when somebody 300 years from now opens your book and reads it, they're not gonna be like, oh, I hate this part, like rip this page out. They're just gonna read it and go to the next page because they know it's a story that's continuing. And that perspective has given me the power to know that there's no part of my story that's wrong or right. It's a journey and I'm on this journey.

• 57:21Karamo Brown?

  And it's harder in the moment to think that because we never know what the next page is gonna be. But then also trusting and discerning that I have enough power and understanding of who I am to know who's going, who's best for my life. And I used to tell myself consistently, like, if a stranger came to my front door, would I open it? If a family member that was shady came to my front door, would I open it? And you know, they say always, your body is your temple. A temple has a door. Would I open it for this person?

• 58:00Karamo Brown?

  And understanding that I've already had discernment and clarity about who I had let into my actual physical front door, that it gave me the same thing that I know who to let into my emotional and mental front door. Because everything that's inside this house, it might, some things might be a little screwy, a little loose, and some things might be beautiful, but I love everything in here because I'm living here. Again, going back to that initial piece and then understanding that. And I think I say that because it's empowering and it takes it. I think what your therapist said is great. That would be my third step, you know, of like focusing and practicing, understanding who's good for your life. But I think the first step is empowering yourself to believe that you have the discernment and understanding of what's best for you.

• 58:45Karamo Brown?

  And I think that's why, and I'll particularly just speak to people who are in the LGBTQIA community or on their journey in that area, whether it's their gender expression or their sexual orientation, is, is you have to empower yourself first and you have to feel empowered.

• 59:02Karamo Brown?

  Before you start to let people in and and understanding that you already are empowered. Because I think we spend a lot of time waiting for other people outside of us to empower us. And that's why this whole coming out idea was something that was like that spread like wildfire. Because it was easier for people to say, let me come out to you. And if you accept me, great, now I feel empowered because my mom loves me. Let me be empowered because my aunt said she wants to go to Pride with me. And it's like, nah, that's a great addition. But you've got to be empowered by your own story first. And you have to be empowered by your own journey. And if you have to, you have to remember, there is no part of your story that is wrong. There is no part of what has happened to you, happened for you, or happened with you that is wrong.

• 59:46Karamo Brown?

  And once you start to learn that and you start to empower yourself, it makes it easier to then look to that peephole of your own mental health and say, hmm, I don't think I want to let you in. And there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with the fact that I don't want to let you in because that says more about the person you don't want to let in versus me. And so even with you on your journey of expressing and letting people into that, the fact that you were sexually abused. Some people don't have the maturity. Some people don't have the language to understand that. And I didn't hear shame when you told me your story. I didn't hear shame at all. I heard someone who was figuring out, who can I let in?

• 1:00:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:00:23Karamo Brown?

  And I think when you reframe language to understand that, it helps us to feel more empowered about making decisions for our own life. You made a decision when you were ready and you didn't need to make it a day before. And the reason we know you didn't need to make it a day before, because you made it when you made it. And you're going to let somebody into your life regarding your sexual orientation, your gender identity, when you're ready. And the day you do it is because that was the day it was supposed to happen. You didn't, it wasn't supposed to happen 10 years before, it wasn't supposed to 15 years before. It happened the day it needed to happen because you started to trust yourself and you started to feel empowered by yourself. And I think that's for me, what I want to encourage people to do. Those are the steps I want to take. The third step, again, I agree with that therapist. Look at those people.

• 1:01:05Karamo Brown?

  If you are scared about the discernment of what you can trust in other people, look at them. Ask that question. That's a great question. But first, take some time and feel empowered by yourself.

• 1:01:14Lewis Howes?

  I love that. And I'm curious, for people that have been in relationships with friends, family members, peers, for a long time. And then they, but they haven't let them in on whatever.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  Yet they start to feel that empowerment themselves and they start to share with others and let them in. What if someone close to them for a long time is just ignorant, uneducated, afraid, confused

• 1:01:45Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Lewis Howes?

  about your empowerment of yourself.

• 1:01:48Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  Now, after ten, twenty, thirty years of knowing this person.

• 1:01:52Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Lewis Howes?

  And all of a sudden, now I'm empowering myself to be fully authentic and share with this with you into me. How do people navigate when someone is ignorant, confused, shocked, embarrassed for the person that they've loved for a long time? Or and disempowers them in that process?

• 1:02:13Karamo Brown?

  Well, understand no one has the power to disempower you. No one has that power. You you're actually making that choice. So again, it goes through that journey we talked about earlier about people's words and how they affected me early on. I realized you don't have the power to take away my happiness or to give me the happiness to make me feel strong. And I think, again, not to reiterate it, but that's why I think that this term coming out is antiquated. Because again, it just says to people, this person has the power to cheer you on or not.

• 1:02:40Lewis Howes?

  To accept you or not.

• 1:02:40Karamo Brown?

  To to accept you or deny you. And it's not about them. It it has nothing to do with them. It's all a self-choice and self-journey. And so if someone that you've been friends with or family members ten years, twenty years, two years, two days, but and you feel like, I want this person to get it. I want this person to understand. If they don't, it has nothing to do with you and it says nothing about you. It says everything about them. And so I remind myself in my own life, when people I I let people into parts of who I am and they have a negative reaction. I always stop and I'll say it now because I'm empowered and I'll say, so that has nothing to do with me. That's all you. And and you should see the shocked people on their face where they're like, what?

• 1:03:22Karamo Brown?

  And I'm like, well, your reaction has nothing to do with me because I I'm over here loving myself and in my space and empowering myself. The fact that you have a negative reaction shows your own personal growth. It shows where you need to be in life. And I think the more people remind themselves of that, can say that out loud. And to go back to that home metaphor, if someone knocked on your door and you said, please come in, I have, I have some great music, I have TV on, I got some food on the stove and they said, no, I don't want to come in there. You gonna go inside, you gonna turn your TV on, you gonna watch your TV, you gonna eat your food? And I think the same thing for when you're letting people in. Like you would then close the door and say, well, they didn't want to come in. You gonna pick up your phone and say, well, who can I call? Who does want to come in? Who I love and trust and who wants to enjoy the beauty of the home, that is me.

• 1:04:07Karamo Brown?

  And that's how I react. And I think more people need to practice reacting that way. Because we don't practice our reactions enough. Everything in life is practice, it's practice, practicing your self-esteem, practicing your reactions, practicing your communication. So when I let people in and they don't want to come in, I shut the door. And I don't lock it because again, I'm a forgiving person. So if one day you do the work to do the journey, the door is unlocked, I'm opening it back up for you. Yeah, some people do get locked, but you know, for the most part, you know. But I, I go find people who do want to come in. And if, and if in that moment, I need to go into my house, I'm gonna find the things that comfort me and I'm gonna cry and I'm gonna grieve that journey that they're on. Again, I'm grieving the journey they're on.

• 1:04:53Karamo Brown?

  I'm not grieving me not having them, I'm grieving the journey that they have to be on. Right. Because I'm sad for them.

• 1:04:58Lewis Howes?

  Should we want everyone to accept who we are authentically? To like, this is my expression of myself, this is what I'm about, this is my identity. Should we want the world to accept us?

• 1:05:09Karamo Brown?

  I, I, I think acceptance is a word that gets thrown around too easily. I do believe we should have everyone should respect us. And I believe that is just the core thing. And I think when it comes to respect, that means, respect means you're not doing something because of your power to harm or hurt me. Um, and I think that's the key thing. Um, there, I'll give you a prime example in my own personal life. My son is an atheist and I'm someone who goes on Instagram and prays. So, okay, so we have very different views.

• 1:05:43Karamo Brown?

  Do I accept my son as an atheist is a tricky thing to say. I damn sure respect him as an atheist. And I respect his choice to make decisions for his life. And I respect him enough not to force him into situations where he has to feel like he has to conform or not be his authentic self. And so when we're at family gatherings and my son was here right now, he'll tell you. People will be like, we're gonna pray and they'll be like, Jason, you're in your aunt's house now. You have to pray. And I said, no, no, no, no. You have to respect him. And if he wants to join us, then that is his choice, but you will respect him. Because he's not doing anything to vocalize negativity against your choice. Because he's respecting your choice.

• 1:06:25Lewis Howes?

  He's not making you wrong.

• 1:06:26Karamo Brown?

  He's not making you wrong, so don't make him wrong.

• 1:06:28Lewis Howes?

  Right. How do you navigate that when you have such a strong belief in something? Whether it's religion or whatever.

• 1:06:35Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Lewis Howes?

  You have a strong belief and someone close to you has a completely opposite belief. How do you navigate respecting, loving, you know, unconditionally another human being? Whether it's your, your son or anyone. How do we navigate that when someone we care about has a completely different belief around something?

• 1:06:55Karamo Brown?

  Well, go inward and ask yourself, was there a time you remember that people didn't love you and respect you? Was there a time that you felt alone? That you felt like you just wanted someone to just respect who you are? And every human being, whether you are a white man, white woman, black man, black woman, whatever race, whatever gender identity, we all remember a time that we needed someone just to respect us. And for me, that's how I reconcile my respect for others. Because I say to myself, it's different, but I remember being there. And I remember going to my family and expressing a part of who I am

• 1:07:39Karamo Brown?

  and wanting them just to respect me because I'm a human being. And so when my son says anything to me, I go back to that place in myself and say, well, you know what? Doesn't mean I'm not gonna have conversations. It doesn't mean that I'm not gonna research and I'm not gonna be curious about, about this part of who you are. But I'm damn sure going to make sure that you feel respected because I know what it felt like to not be respected. And I think if more people. Brought things back to themselves and remembered how they felt. They wouldn't want to put that on other people. And I think that's just what it is to be a human being. We heard that from early on, do unto others as you want done unto you. And I think, and you know, because this is such a time in our, in our history where we see

• 1:08:25Karamo Brown?

  the anti LGBTQI legislation, we see rampant hate, we see what people are doing. I just wonder if that was your own child or if that was you. Would you want that? Would you want people to do that to you? Would you just want that? And I think if people just remembered that feeling, maybe they would start to just show respect as they're on a journey to understand their fellow human beings.

• 1:08:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's beautiful, man. I wanna, I'd love to talk to you for hours, but I wanna. I invited you over to dinner. You and your girl coming over. The salsa answer, we're having dinner. Making some tacos.

• 1:09:03Lewis Howes?

  I got a final few questions for you. But before I ask them,

• 1:09:08Lewis Howes?

  how can we be of service to you today? For everyone listening and watching today, but also this will be on for many years to come. How can we serve you immediately and in the future? With what's on your heart and in your, your life? Right now.

• 1:09:22Karamo Brown?

  It's, it's, it's a very happy thing for me to say that I actually don't need anything right now.

• 1:09:29Karamo Brown?

  I mean, I mean, there's this career thing that we all like, watch my show, support it. You know what I mean? Tune into Karamo weekdays and check your local listings and you know, tune in to Queer Eye. You know, there's all that stuff, obviously that, you know. But in my own personal life, I, I have, I have tools. You're one of my tools. I'm so blessed to be here with one of my tools, you know? I have my community that is loving me louder. I, um, I know how to navigate and trust myself. And so I'm. I don't, I don't need anything right now and I wish I had something that I could be like, hey, I need people to do this for me right now, but I don't. I don't, I just, you know, I don't. Yeah. Feels nice to say.

• 1:10:13Lewis Howes?

  That's good. You got great content though. I want people to follow you on.

• 1:10:16Karamo Brown?

  Oh yeah, you can go to follow me on social media, you know, go to at Karamo, you know, I'm the worst at social media. I, I, I need to ask you, who does yours? Because like, I have all these great ideas of like, how I want to inspire people on social media and then like, I pick up my phone and then the phone ring and I'll be like, I forget all about it. Oh, you know what I mean? And like, it just like, or, or I'm at dinner and I have these beautiful plates in front of me. It's just generational because I didn't grow up with social media. And so the phone is usually the last thing I think of picking up in a moment when I'm happy. Or when I'm excited, or when I have a thought.

• 1:10:49Karamo Brown?

  It's weird. And so yeah, follow me on social media, you know, at Karamo everywhere, having a unique name. It's easy. K A R A M O. You can watch my show, it's called Karamo. You can read my book, it's called Karamo. I mean, it's pretty simple to figure out who I am and where I'm at. Please, you know, support that, but.

• 1:11:07Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:11:07Karamo Brown?

  Other than that, you know, if someone feels gracious enough to do that, I'm so thankful. But I don't need it. I mean, I need it, but I don't need it. I just, I, I think the thing that will service me is just like challenging yourself to be better. Practicing your own happiness. That's what I need. Because I'm tired of walking around and seeing people that are sad. Because it hurts. It, it makes me sad and I, I'm a super empathetic person. I like, people keep calling me an empath and I don't really know what that means. I haven't done the research enough to know what that means to accept that as a title for myself. But I just feel people and so like, if someone wants to do something for me outside of following me, go find your tools, go find your community.

• 1:11:49Karamo Brown?

  Start to believe in yourself. Do those things for me. That could help me out because you do that, you're gonna start making better choices for yourself. It's gonna start affecting your community and then it's gonna start affecting my life. Because like, the more you do stuff that is better for it, healthier and more full of love, then it starts to affect the way we vote and the way we treat each other in traffic and the way we walk past each other and say hi. It starts to change everything. So that's what I need.

• 1:12:15Lewis Howes?

  I love this, man. Make sure you guys follow Karamo everywhere and all your shows, content, it's all at.

• 1:12:23Lewis Howes?

  Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, everywhere. Well, how about all linked up as well? And if you're enjoying this, share your biggest takeaway on the YouTube as well in the comments below. I'd love to hear your biggest takeaway from Karamo.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  This is for real, because I used to be giving comments on yours. You've got no idea. This is kind of cool for me, because I'm usually giving comments of like, oh my gosh, I took this away from this person. This was great. This is going, oh my gosh, I'm doing this on next season of Queer Eye. I do that already.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Look at this. I'm having a moment. I'm sorry.

• 1:12:51Lewis Howes?

  I love it, man. I want to acknowledge you, Karamo. I've got two final questions for you. Before I ask them, I want to acknowledge you for your authenticity.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:12:59Lewis Howes?

  For showing up true to yourself, for being on the healing journey, as it's a constant journey. It's not like you're finished today. It's an ongoing journey. And for accepting who you are and being empowered in yourself and allowing people to see you. And hopefully they respect you. Not everyone may accept you, but hopefully people respect you.

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:13:18Lewis Howes?

  So I acknowledge you for showing up and being in service the way you do with your show, with Queer Eye, the way you show up and serve people. I know you're a leader, you're a coach, you're a guide, you're a mentor. So I acknowledge you for all those things, my friend.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:13:33Lewis Howes?

  And this is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but then it's finally your last day. And you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish in your career. And you have a happy, beautiful life and you have the family, you have the things you want.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, it's your last day. And everything you've created has to go with you. So no one has access to the book and the content and the shows and all the videos. And this conversation's gone. Hypothetical.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Lewis Howes?

  But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true from your entire life. Three lessons that you would leave behind.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Lewis Howes?

  And that's all we have to remember you by. What would be those three truths for you?

• 1:14:23Lewis Howes?

  You're more powerful than you think.

• 1:14:28Karamo Brown?

  You have the power to change your life. And there's a lot of power in connection. Mm hmm. I think that's gonna be it. I would just tell people those things.

• 1:14:39Karamo Brown?

  I would also tell them that you, you know, what, scratch off on those. I actually thought about it now.

• 1:14:43Lewis Howes?

  Go for it.

• 1:14:43Karamo Brown?

  I'd also tell somebody like, um, general orational trauma actually has to start and break with somebody and you can actually be the one that breaks it. You really can be. I see that now all the time. Like, you can break it. You can be the one to break it. Cause I broke it in my family.

• 1:14:58Lewis Howes?

  Me too.

• 1:14:59Karamo Brown?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:59Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's beautiful.

• 1:15:01Karamo Brown?

  So I gave you four.

• 1:15:02Lewis Howes?

  No, it's great. It's all good. Final question, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:15:07Karamo Brown?

  Yeah, I think greatness for me is just a lot of like, it's just never stop practicing and never stop, never stop practicing. I practice, maybe it's the student in me or the athlete in me. I just practice, practice, practice. I'm, I'm, I'm keen on understanding where my life is and what I need to practice to be better. And I'm not afraid to tell people that I'm in a mode of practicing, that I'm not ready for that game. I'm not ready for this piece of whatever life is giving. I'm not ready because I still need some practice. I'm not ashamed by that. And I try to teach my sons to practice. You know what? I guess, I guess practice your greatness every single day. Don't, don't be afraid to practice your greatness.

• 1:15:49Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on Apple podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life,

• 1:16:30Lewis Howes?

  then make sure to sign up for the greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.