Michelle Williams on Destiny’s Child, Faith & Future Love

The Queen of Bridges has entered the chat! Keke sits down with Michelle Williams to talk the wild story behind joining Destiny’s Child, working alongside Beyoncé and Kelly Rowland, and the Janet Jackson advice she’ll never forget. Michelle also gets candid about therapy, depression, faith, public relationships, reality TV regrets, and why she and Keke agree they may never live with a future spouse. Plus, Michelle shares stories about meeting Whitney Houston and the other Michelle Williams. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Y'all, the queen of bridges is on the podcast today. Yes, the Michelle Williams. From being one-third of one of the most iconic groups of all time, Destiny's Child, to building a life that's fully her own. Michelle's journey has been about so much more than music. It's been about faith, healing, identity, and finding her voice beyond the spotlight. She's been honest about what it looks like to be celebrated publicly while dealing with real struggles privately, and what it takes to come back to yourself on your own terms. This conversation is about trusting your voice, choosing healing without shame, and aligning your life with who you truly are. Let's talk about it. On Baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:14Keke Palmer?

  Today's episode is brought to you by the new drinks at McDonald's. Six new drinks crafted sodas with cold foam, refreshers with popping boba and freeze-dried fruit, and trust, they are giving everything. Now, let's get into today's show. Baby, this is Michelle Williams. Where you at, girl?

• 1:37Keke Palmer?

  How are you? Girl, you're fabulous. You too, you too. That intro brought me to tears. Oh, MG. It's all true. And can we just talk about how I'm always laughing at your posts? What am I, what did I do? You are so funny when you had that video about people coming to see you in "Death Becomes Her", and they are literally eating their snacks. Girl, that made me laugh so hard. Why do I feel like people thought I was paying them a compliment?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  I wasn't.

• 2:07Keke Palmer?

  Okay, I'm in the middle of the show and all I hear is you chomping on them chips, y'all.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  They don't even share.

• 2:12Keke Palmer?

  That is too funny, girl. That made me laugh so much. I love how social media allows us to see into people's real lives and personality because I didn't realize how funny you were.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  I am a little hoot.

• 2:23Keke Palmer?

  You are funny.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you. I take that as a compliment, you know. I love, uh, well, sometimes I'm can be too funny and they go, is she on something? I'm like, no, I'm sober.

• 2:36Keke Palmer?

  I'm happy.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  I'm happy.

• 2:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, literally, literally.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  You look great.

• 2:40Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, girl. Thank you so much.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Serve this hair.

• 2:42Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Serve the joy, the skin, the tea.

• 2:45Keke Palmer?

  And I do love New York. Are you loving New York?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  I, I didn't know you were here. I've been here since 2024.

• 2:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah. And this was even before the Broadway shows and stuff?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  No, I'm based in Georgia.

• 2:55Keke Palmer?

  Okay, okay.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Born and raised in Illinois.

• 2:57Keke Palmer?

  Okay, family. Rockford. Shout out to Rockford.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I know about you.

• 3:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Um, but I've been here since like 2024.

• 3:04Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I didn't, I'm like, okay, let's go.

• 3:06Keke Palmer?

  I cannot wait to see you in the show.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Please do. You must come see the show.

• 3:11Keke Palmer?

  And I love the movies, so I'm excited to see the show. You know what I mean, so?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  And I think I, I, I know your laugh, so I.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  I'll know when it's you.

• 3:20Keke Palmer?

  And I'm not gonna be eating no chips.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  You can't eat them. Just put them in like a tissue paper. Some of that don't, don't do all that.

• 3:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. So I had you do the, the pre-show pull-up questions. Your full name is so funny because I'm the same as you. My real name is Lauren. My first name is Lauren, but everybody knows me as Kiki. Your first name is Tanitra.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:41Keke Palmer?

  Do any of your family members call you Tanitra?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  They do. They still to this day. They call me Tanitra, T.

• 3:47Keke Palmer?

  Okay, TT.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  TT, yes. No one calls me Michelle.

• 3:52Keke Palmer?

  So was Michelle just your idea for, you know, when I have a stage name, it's gonna be Michelle Williams?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  It never was. It never was, but it was talked about and I was like, and, and I can say it now. It's been so many years, but I do kinda like having the separation.

• 4:08Keke Palmer?

  Me too.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Kinda like having the separation.

• 4:11Keke Palmer?

  Me too.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  But I feel like because I've been doing this so long.

• 4:16Keke Palmer?

  You getting Tanitra.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  You are getting Tanitra.

• 4:19Keke Palmer?

  And that's how I feel too about the whole Keke Palmer of it all, but the reality is like, you only can see so much of somebody without knowing them. So it's almost like the public persona versus the interpersonal family, etc. But you're still getting me.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yes, you're still getting me, yeah. I don't want the public to be like, well, who are you? But like, I'm Michelle, I'm Tanitra. I'm, I think Michelle is the alter ego.

• 4:41Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  You know, but then sometimes I need to pull Tanitra out sometimes for the alter ego.

• 4:47Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I, I feel the same way.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  You call me confused.

• 4:52Keke Palmer?

  Integrated is what we call it.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 4:55Keke Palmer?

  Um, your zodiac sign is a Leo. I love Leos. Do you feel very Leo? Do you even resonate with the sign stuff?

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Apparently, in some publications, I have been a Leo or a Cancer.

• 5:07Keke Palmer?

  Ooh.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  My birthday is on the cusp. But, um, that's all I know.

• 5:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  I asked my mother what time I was born one day and she, you would've thought I asked for my social security card.

• 5:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, parents get so, they immediately are like, what are you up to? And it's like, well, I just want to know the time, damn.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  I don't even know if I was born in the nighttime or daytime.

• 5:27Keke Palmer?

  She can give you the 8 p.m. or 10 p.m.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Can you give me like, was the sun out?

• 5:31Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Was it dark?

• 5:33Keke Palmer?

  That is true.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  I know I was born on a Monday.

• 5:35Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  That's all I know.

• 5:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, so Leos, they say Leos are very confident. They're not afraid to, you know, be delegating in a situation. Very loyal, fiercely loyal. Um, Leos are also, I mean, I guess those are the main things. Then they say with Cancers, a lot of people think Cancers are, when they hear emotional, they think crying all the time. Actually, when they say emotional for Cancers, they mean they can feel everything.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  They, I, I can feel a lot.

• 6:05Keke Palmer?

  So you feel connected to that?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:07Keke Palmer?

  Okay, you right on that cusp.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  I am. Apparently, I'm on the cusp. I don't know. You know, if you ask family, they'll be like, Jesus is your sign.

• 6:17Keke Palmer?

  Okay, you know how Triforce is. Anytime Triforce hits signs, they immediately.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  The, I, I'm like, I'm, I don't know.

• 6:23Keke Palmer?

  It's just the stars, mama. Um, what's Your love language. I see you wrote quality time.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  I do like quality time, but don't smother me.

• 6:32Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  I want you near. I wanna know you're there.

• 6:35Keke Palmer?

  Yes, I don't like that smothered either. Why are we enmeshed? Enmeshment in the words of psychology is not good.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I saw that you do not want to live with your boo.

• 6:47Keke Palmer?

  We don't need to live together. And this is the funny thing about it. The reality too, cause you know, some people love that. And then some people were like, well, that's crazy. But it's like, what if you and your lover are always traveling? You're working for your jobs. You're probably not spending all that much time together anyway. What if the person you're with is in the military? What if the person you're with works, you know what I mean? Like jobs even. So whether you, even if you do have one house together, I think the real thing is like you said. Just, we, we gotta have something to bring back to each other.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  You know what? I could see myself and my husband living in two four-story townhomes. Right next door to each other.

• 7:24Keke Palmer?

  That is so hot. Okay, I mean, that's so sexy.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Like, I wanna see like the, your rooftop patio and then I wave at you. And then, if you wanna stop by, come on by. That is so.

• 7:38Keke Palmer?

  But we gotta be next door. I wanna be able to see you. I love the next door. It also feels, you know what it reminds me of? Like a, a show back in the nineteen sixties or maybe nineteen seventies, like Mary Tyler Moore or something.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  But I will have cameras in your house. I want, that's that Leo.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I will be peeking.

• 7:55Keke Palmer?

  I will be watching.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  I see you peeking, but you ain't speaking.

• 7:58Keke Palmer?

  Now, you met someone that I'm, that I would have just fallen out to have meet. The question is, who is someone you met that made you feel starstruck? And you actually remind me of this person. I'm sure you've heard this in your life before. Yeah.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:11Keke Palmer?

  Whitney Houston.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  I love Whitney Houston. I will never say loved.

• 8:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  I love Whitney Houston.

• 8:19Keke Palmer?

  And you met her?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Met her in the hotel lobby and she started singing Say My Name.

• 8:23Keke Palmer?

  No, she didn't.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, she did. It was myself, Beyonce, Kelly. Um, back in the day, it was the Hotel Nico in Los Angeles.

• 8:30Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Hotel Nico.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  La Meridian. Now it's the SLS. It's been the SLS.

• 8:34Keke Palmer?

  They done changed everything. Probably the same owners too. They just flipped the name on us.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  We'll see. But she was like, y'all stay together. Y'all just, I was just like, y'all.

• 8:43Keke Palmer?

  Y'all stay together gave me life. I heard it in there.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  I went in my hotel room, got a pillow and screamed.

• 8:51Keke Palmer?

  I know you did.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  In the pillow. I could not believe it. I still see it. I still feel it today.

• 8:59Keke Palmer?

  That is just so awesome. What a great person to have gotten to meet. Rest in peace Whitney. She is like, I feel like she is like the DNA of so many of us.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 9:08Keke Palmer?

  It's crazy just watching her. I feel like, I never got a chance to meet her, but I feel her in my soul and my spirit just as a great influence to the world.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Like Whitney, all of her songs. There was a song that just came to mind the other day, her song called Miracle.

• 9:23Keke Palmer?

  Wow.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  And I used to sing that song all the time. That was the time where you had to rewind the cassette.

• 9:30Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And write the lyrics down. Y'all don't know nothing about that. Now you can just Google the lyrics.

• 9:35Keke Palmer?

  I do. My mom used to record over ours sometimes with her own music. Girl, if you don't get a demo tape. It was crazy. Bone Thugs and Harmony Tape just gone.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Gone.

• 9:44Keke Palmer?

  Crazy.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  And then Shirley Caesar.

• 9:46Keke Palmer?

  Shirley Caesar. So you grew up in Rockford, Illinois.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Rockford, Illinois.

• 9:50Keke Palmer?

  You know, whenever I, I never had gone to Rockford, Illinois. I grew up in a south suburb. I grew up in Robbins.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I've been to Robbins many times.

• 9:56Keke Palmer?

  Girl, you know Robbins is a mess. Okay? It's a mess. But Dwyane Wade is from Robbins, Nichelle Nichols.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  We love that for you.

• 10:06Keke Palmer?

  But Kenan and Kale had a Halloween movie and I remember they were like, Rock, Welcome to Rockford. They were all, they were in Rock, Rockford, Illinois.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Rockford, Illinois. We're a home of Cheap Trick.

• 10:17Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Cheap Trick.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Danica Patrick.

• 10:19Keke Palmer?

  Come on.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  We, we've got a lot of stars as well.

• 10:25Keke Palmer?

  Michelle Williams.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Me.

• 10:27Keke Palmer?

  Okay. So what was it like for you growing up in Rockford? I feel like the Midwest is such a special upbringing. I mean, nothing but cornfields and starchy foods.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  I think we're the best. I think we're some of the best in the industry by the way.

• 10:39Keke Palmer?

  Girl.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  I think we're balanced. No shade to you east coasters, westerners and southerners.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  We have all of that.

• 10:48Keke Palmer?

  We do.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  I think we're the best.

• 10:50Keke Palmer?

  How often do you go back? Is your family still there?

• 10:52Speaker 01

  My entire family is, my immediate family is all still in Illinois. And then I've got some cousins who finally moved to like Arizona and Georgia. And I'm like, finally, when we have family reunions, we actually have people to see and go because I would see everybody every Sunday at church. And then when we would have a family reunion, I'm like, we ain't reuniting with nobody.

• 11:14Keke Palmer?

  Right, right.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Cause I see y'all all the time.

• 11:16Keke Palmer?

  Exactly.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  So just call it a family gathering.

• 11:19Keke Palmer?

  Girl, growing up in the church is everything. And I love when you share stories about that, when you were talking about, I think, not vaca-, I don't know if it was vacation, Bible school, where you, yeah. When you got into the little fight. I mean, church, I think the sense of community that comes from growing up in those,

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:35Keke Palmer?

  in that kind of environment. What, what, what do you feel like you learned growing up in that? Cause I feel like it's, it taught me everything I know, honestly.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  It taught me everything. It taught me even things musically. We didn't have all the technology. So even now, if something happens during a performance where there's a glitch.

• 11:54Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  It teaches you how to

• 11:56Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  keep it moving.

• 11:57Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  I just love the, the grit, the strength, resilience. Sometimes I question if that's, if you're born with it or through time and situations, you know, I, I don't know. But it, it, it's something that keeps me anchored.

• 12:16Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  It keeps me anchored. My family, I'm proud of my family. I know they're proud of me and so anything I do, I, I kinda have them in the forefront of my mind as well.

• 12:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I really love what you said too about just that anchor because I feel like that foundation early on, and I don't know how, if my parents knew or if they were learning and they were just doing what they thought was good, giving me that structure. But those early conversations of just with myself, of just praying, you know?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:49Keke Palmer?

  Lord, not let me down asleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. You know what I mean? Just having that internal conversation and moment of reflection, it gave me A sense of awareness and connection that I understand now, but as a kid, it was just, I didn't. You know, I was just doing what I was told, but I'm so grateful to have.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  We have and now we have something to to grab a hold to. We have something to hold on to and so that's what.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  You know, yeah.

• 13:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you said sometimes money and success can only magnify a troubled or wounded soul. When did you realize that, realize that concept in your own journey?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Now, when you also asked me what my sign is, dollar sign, you had a dollar sign.

• 13:31Keke Palmer?

  I know, that's right, that's the Leo again.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  You add dollar sign to that, I like money. Don't have me though, I, you know.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Money does not control me. So I'll say that. But I do think, I don't know if it's maybe even access. Pressure that comes with who you are, whatever that is. Well, they say when you press an orange, orange juice should come out. So when you, when there's pressure, whatever's in you will come out, right? And then sometimes you'll learn, oh, what's in me, I need growth.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  I need help.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And that's okay, even the older you get or the more successful you get, you should always be a student, you should always be, I'm trying to do heart checks. At daily, literally like last night before I went to bed, I'm like, there's one situation, I'm like, Lord, I, you gotta help me with my heart on this. I'm always trying to do a, a heart check, I didn't know to always do that, cause you internalize and you have shame. Certain things that are considered negative. Or will, you have this life, you're on Broadway, you shouldn't, oh, that don't mean nothing, strip all that away. I am still a soul.

• 14:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, that's one of those things that I love when we think about like the stories or parables like Job, where it's like that moment where he has the conversation with the friends and they're like, you shouldn't say that, you shouldn't say that, but it's like, you gotta come to God with a truthful heart. Even if it is, I'm angry with you. You came for and what's the you know and that actually is what makes it better. We actually hurt ourselves when we don't say, I'm angry, I'm mad, I feel jealousy in this moment. Why do I feel X, Y, and Z? And so I think that is really important that we don't have that that shame.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely. A young lady in the show that I'm in, I know we'll get to it. She helped me um about a year ago. I was so tired.

• 15:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And I remember saying, oh, I'm so tired, but I'm grateful. And she was like, you know, you can be both. You can be tired and grateful. Because sometimes if you're telling somebody you're tired. Well, this is what you prayed for. Well, this is what come with it. I'm tired, why can't I say that? And I think that's why a lot of people feel so alone. When they are just simply tired, sad, angry, overwhelmed, afraid, concerned.

• 16:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  All those types of adjectives that you should not be naming if you have a good job.

• 16:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  If you got a good family. Like, no, you can be both. You can be overwhelmed and have a good family.

• 16:18Keke Palmer?

  I had that same moment with um with Chris Pratt. We were um doing a doing a commercial or something like that. And I was, I said the same thing. I was like, ah, I'm so tired, but I'm glad, I'm grateful. And he's like, you don't have to do that with me. And I was like, huh? And he was like, I get it. We do have good jobs and we do have a grateful life, but we can be tired.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  You just be like.

• 16:37Keke Palmer?

  And I'm like, thank you, brother man. I was like, you cool.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:43Keke Palmer?

  I was like, I even because sometimes you don't know that people could see the subtext of what you're carrying. You know, you might whatever's on the surface. You know what I mean, what's on the surface, but like, you actually saw me. I had the same thing happen with me recently. I was in Pilates, I'm I'm becoming an instructor and I was in my class.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I see that, girl, come on.

• 16:59Keke Palmer?

  And I'm so, you know, serious, you know, and my I'm like, you know. And the teacher, he was like, something when I was doing it and he was like, you're like, this is my life. And I'm like, you get my subtext, you see that, you see that I am.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:13Keke Palmer?

  This is my life and that that's something that I'm learning to release.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 17:18Keke Palmer?

  You know, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to be so this is my life. Anyway, you said.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 17:22Keke Palmer?

  You said something else about the money piece that I want to go into, which is access. Think a lot of times it's like, that is really the whole value of money. Like, I feel like we, it's like, we're just trying to get access. The fight to have money is really based on being able to have the best life I wanna have.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 17:43Keke Palmer?

  But what ends up happening, interestingly enough, is that sometimes you don't even know what to use the money for to support that life. Whether it is we thinking, I need the outfit, or I need the house, or I need the bag, or I need the whatever. But sometimes it's like, I need access to the therapy. I need access to the, the, the center where I can get well for a minute. You know, sometimes we don't know, we want the access, then we get the money, and then we're overshadowed by actually what to use it for.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  What to use it for.

• 18:14Keke Palmer?

  You know.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  And you don't see, and it's trying to turn your perspective to see where it should hold value.

• 18:24Keke Palmer?

  Boom.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Right? Um, I still am in therapy.

• 18:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  And I don't announce it, but there, there are times where someone felt like they couldn't afford therapy, and I'm like, but you need it. So, here are, here's some sessions, you know, and then they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know the value of this. So now it's like, I know where to put my money so that I can be a better person. And I think when you become better, you get better.

• 18:58Keke Palmer?

  Yes, without a doubt.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  You get better, cuz you will learn to eliminate what does not, um, serve you.

• 19:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  And you eliminate that, and then you're able to make room for better, but you don't know where to put the money to, to get better. Sometimes you feel like it's subtraction, money is leaving.

• 19:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  No, you're making room.

• 19:21Keke Palmer?

  And I think of it as investments.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 19:24Keke Palmer?

  You know, like, it's like, that's how, like, sometimes we are, you know, you're holding on tight, but it's like, let it go if it's going to be an investment for the future. And that can look in so many different ways. What were those moments in your life where you started to realize how to treat the value of money? Where that value should go and could go.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  There are were some great people that I that I had early on in my career. I'll never forget Big Jim Wright. He was a music producer alongside Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

• 19:54Keke Palmer?

  Come on Jimmy Jam.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Who who they all three of them gave me great wisdom. In the early 2000s of saving and just because you could afford a certain type of home, do you need it right now or do you need it at all? There are certain things and I believe I am not materialistic, but there was a point where shoes. I didn't even have outfits to wear with the shoes, but I loved shoes. I do. I do love a certain ride, you know, and that that's my business. You know what I'm saying?

• 20:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  But um, I want to be careful because I also fear and money were two things. You don't want to be like, well, I want to got to hold on to because I might not have it. I might not have it. I might not lose it. I might. That's that's fear and it has a lot to do with maybe how you were raised or what you saw growing up, especially if you saw struggle.

• 20:53Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  And I get it. I'm not saying be irresponsible. You don't hear me saying that. I'm not saying be be irresponsible.

• 21:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, but you're talking about the balance in between.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Ooh, so much fear of not using it or not spending it. Out of fear.

• 21:10Keke Palmer?

  What's the part of the story of your story? When people look at you and see you thriving that you wish they understood about the process of getting there?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  You can grow. You can change your mind.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  And have wise counsel to help you navigate. Through those changes. There are some things that I felt have been so abrupt in my life or I can't say I necessarily have heard people say. I think I might have seen a comment years ago where it's like, Michelle don't know what she want to do. And I was like, well, man, do I should I stay stuck here? You know, then I was taught, well, excel in this area and then branch out. You know, and you know, but then I'm like you, Kiki. One day I heard you say, child, you got to have multiple streams.

• 21:58Keke Palmer?

  Come on.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  You know.

• 22:01Keke Palmer?

  It's so true.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  But having multiple streams, but making it all somehow makes sense.

• 22:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  But I feel like if I want to just make croissants all day one day, I'm gonna do it.

• 22:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it.

• 22:13Keke Palmer?

  And I feel like as artists, it's, we're not often framed this way. And I even say artists, storytellers, creators, but we're also entrepreneurs. This is a, this is a, a job that is based on us being independent contractors. Sometimes we may get pulled into something that goes a minute, a TV show, Broadway. Then sometimes it's just this job for two months, this thing for that thing. So what else am I doing? How am I finding the other ways that I can stay activated, stay engaged?

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Staying activated, what brings you joy? What makes you happy? Where do you, is there something that you're passionate about? Okay, you might have this big thing over here, but if there's something that you're passionate about, where some people, there are some things I'm passionate about where the powers that be don't really care about that. Like, oh, that's cute.

• 22:57Keke Palmer?

  Right, I love portraying, right, yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  You know.

• 23:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Mars is great.

• 23:04Keke Palmer?

  It's not for me.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  I love that. I love the facial expressions that we can get into. Um, when did you realize? You know what, it ain't just singing in church. This is gonna be a career.

• 23:23Keke Palmer?

  This episode is brought to you by the brand new drinks over at McDonald's. Okay, y'all, these drinks are officially the outside drinks of 2026. I'm talking concert season, game day season, vintage market season, picnic in the park with a cute fit and a lover season. These drinks were built for any occasion worth showing up for y'all. The Sprite Berry Blast with Sprite Blue Raspberry and cold foam on top. That's your drink before the headliner hits the stage. The strawberry watermelon refresher with freeze dried strawberries with a little caffeine to keep the energy going is what you and your girlfriends are gonna be sipping at the post brunch afters. Six new drinks total. Crafted sodas with cold foam and refreshers with popping boba and freeze dried fruit

• 24:07Keke Palmer?

  that go perfectly with even the chilliest of days and the hottest shenanigans. Before you pull up anywhere, I know you're stopping at McDonald's first because that's just the move now. New drinks now at McDonald's, baby, we outside.

• 24:24Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so the road trip is happening, alright? The snacks are packed, somebody already has the playlist ready, and you already know the music is about to be popping, okay? And the kids have been asking, "Are we there yet?" Since before we left the driveway. As someone who travels by car frequently with her child, I know what will make or break that trip is what you pull up to at the end of it. Because after me and Leo have been in that car for six hours, baby, we are not trying to arrive at just anything. We want to walk into a home. And that's exactly why I like booking stays on Airbnb. When you get to a place that actually feels like somewhere you can live, the whole energy shifts. Now we have a space to spread out, a kitchen where I can throw something together if I want to, a porch where I can sit, breathe,

• 25:08Keke Palmer?

  and come back to myself after that drive. That's the reset you need. The trip doesn't end when you arrive. It's just getting started. And when you book with Airbnb, that's when the trip really begins.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  To be honest, now, education was pretty pushed, pretty much pushed in my family. Because I feel like...

• 25:31Keke Palmer?

  That's a good thing.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Education was pushed. There are many singers in my family, many musicians in my family. But you'll be surprised, most of them are doctors, musicians, doctors, nurses, teachers.

• 25:45Keke Palmer?

  That's fabulous.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And they all can sing or do something. I was in college playing some of my brother's demo tapes, majoring in criminal justice, minoring in sociology, wanting to be an artist, though, and sing. But this is so funny. The artist Selena Johnson went to the same university. She was in a girl group. This is when she had got signed. She was leaving the group. They wanted me to join the group.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  I said, oh no, honey, they singing nightclubs. I cannot be in that group, child. I gotta sing in church.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I can just smell the smoke, ooh, the cigarettes.

• 26:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. And then like a year later, I'm singing background for Monica. Then months later, joining Destiny's Child. Kind of having the same, was supposed to replace someone in college. And then ended up doing the same thing for Destiny's Child. I would sing in mirrors with brushes. Singing Whitney, singing C.C. Winans, Yolanda Adams, the group Heart.

• 26:56Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, Heart.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  They too much. Them girls could sing. Love, love, love them so much.

• 27:05Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Love them to pieces. And, but I just was like, no, just go ahead and be that prosecuting attorney.

• 27:12Keke Palmer?

  Uh-oh.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Or forensic psychologist. You're gonna thrive there.

• 27:16Keke Palmer?

  You're gonna thrive there, it's crazy.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  I knew that I was going to be successful in like 7th, 8th grade. I knew I was gonna be successful. I, I didn't know to what capacity, but I knew I was gonna be successful.

• 27:27Keke Palmer?

  So we flash forward in college.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:28Keke Palmer?

  Obviously, other people saw this in you. Is this because you would just be in a room singing? Or y'all went to service together? Like, how did they even know?

• 27:35Speaker 01

  You know, I, I was in this college choir.

• 27:38Keke Palmer?

  Fabulous.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I think I directed in the choir. I, in, in my home church, choir director, praise and worship leader, usher. Hospitality, reading church announcements, church nurse on fourth Sunday's girl. I did it all. Okay? I was doing it all back then, and I'm doing it all today. I just love how everything is coming full circle.

• 27:59Keke Palmer?

  It's funny in life how you always, we always are who we are. In some regard. You know what I mean? It's like the, the writing was always on the wall.

• 28:09Keke Palmer?

  Corn.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Ball.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It was too easy.

• 28:15Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so we're fast forward.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  That was good, though. That was.

• 28:17Keke Palmer?

  We're in college.

• 28:21Keke Palmer?

  We're in college. Our friend is saying, yo, get in this group.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Get into the group. That story, I can't recall. I think her name might have been Ayesha.

• 28:31Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  She was also in the group. But there was a young musician in Chicago. He is no longer with us. His name was Freddie Moffett. He happened to call me one day and say he was about to go on the road with Monica and the group Ninety Eight Degrees.

• 28:46Keke Palmer?

  Oh, Ninety Eight Degrees.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  I kind of like, their tune is like in my mind. Boy band, though. It was the Nick Lachey. That was his group.

• 28:55Keke Palmer?

  They could sing.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, Nick Lachey. I didn't like him. Were so good. So I told him, I said, well, if Monica needs a background singer, tell her I said hi and call me.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Did. He calls me about a week or so later

• 29:14Speaker 01

  and says she's having auditions tomorrow in Atlanta. I said, I can't afford a next day ticket. If I take Greyhound, I'll just be getting there today.

• 29:24Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Greyhound.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  In 2026. You know, they make stops everywhere, in every county, every city.

• 29:29Keke Palmer?

  My grandma used to love Greyhound.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Greyhound, they gonna stop twenty, eighty-four stops. So he has a cousin. Her name is Gladys.

• 29:36Keke Palmer?

  Hi, guys.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Worked for United Airlines. Can we say that?

• 29:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, we can. Shout out to them.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. She gave me a buddy pass.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  And to me, that was, that unlocked like my actual musical destiny. I get down to Atlanta, I sing a hymn, Blessed Assurance.

• 29:53Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yes. Them church songs never screw you wrong.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  I knew Angel of Mine by Monica. I knew her other songs, but to kill an audition girl, you sing Blessed Assurance. I got the gig to sing background. Destiny's Child is opening up on that tour.

• 30:09Keke Palmer?

  No.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Destiny's Child, no, no, no, no, Bills, Bills, Bills, Bills, bugaboo. They were the opening act. They were the act where you gonna be eating your chips. You walking in with your refreshments. They were the opening act. They're, sometimes an opening act, sometimes people are still

• 30:28Keke Palmer?

  Yes, they're getting, settling in.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  They're still getting into the auditorium. At that time, this was an outdoor tour. Um, amphitheater, so people are still kinda settling in and didn't think nothing about it. Now, I, I like telling this story to young kids. Months later, they're told about me as they're looking for, you know, alternate members, some replacements or whatever. You know, however the, the situation was going at the time, someone told them about me.

• 30:58Keke Palmer?

  I love that you always had somebody telling somebody about you.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Let me tell, let me tell you. Be nice to people, show up, do your job, be kind. You might not think anybody is paying attention to you.

• 31:11Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Somebody is always watching. I didn't think I was the ta- most talented one. Why y'all calling me? And I say that to encourage kids, like I say, you never know who's watching you.

• 31:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  And so Ms. Tina calls me and

• 31:27Keke Palmer?

  You are absolutely extraordinarily talented, but I do like what you said in terms of like, talent isn't the only thing that gets us where we are.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:35Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? It's, you know what I mean? It's true. Like, there's more that comes with it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  We know so many talented people, but they're not like pliable. I'm pliable or teachable. I'm not saying I wanna change who you are.

• 31:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  But I would almost work with somebody who can get there.

• 31:51Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Who's got a great head on their shoulders.

• 31:54Keke Palmer?

  Every time. Every time.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  That's just me.

• 31:58Keke Palmer?

  Every time.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Y'all don't cancel me because of that.

• 32:00Keke Palmer?

  No, that's real.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  You just never know what to say nowadays.

• 32:03Keke Palmer?

  I know. But colla- being a collaborator, knowing how to work with people.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  That's so good.

• 32:07Keke Palmer?

  That's what creates longevity.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  That is so, so good. I'm still a student. I'm still learning. I love when the associate choreographer to this day comes in my room to give me a note. Sometimes I just make Something up. Even if you feel like, you know, I don't need a note, but I love, tell me. I don't want to be up there strong and wrong.

• 32:29Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  You still can tell me, hey, you was on two, you should be on zero.

• 32:35Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  You was out your light. Please, tell me, I'm not, I'm not that person where you can't tell me anything.

• 32:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Now, you can't tell me how to make my greens, though. You can't tell me how to make my collard greens.

• 32:49Keke Palmer?

  She cooks.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Don't do that.

• 32:50Keke Palmer?

  You be cooking down the house like that?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Don't do me.

• 32:53Keke Palmer?

  What's your meal, meal?

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Now, some, I think the only thing I know how to cook is collard greens. The other day.

• 32:59Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute.

• 33:01Keke Palmer?

  They're like, she can cook greens, ooh, she can cook.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Right, all you gotta do is one item, yeah.

• 33:04Keke Palmer?

  Kind of the only thing.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Um, but I made a, like, I put a chuck roast in my slow cooker the other day. Ooh.

• 33:13Keke Palmer?

  Baby, it was so good.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  So, it was about eleven o'clock, I went to sleep, and then about four o'clock, I turned it off, and I let it warm, stay warm. Put the warmer on, and it just was so, ooh, you could just, the fork, it just melted.

• 33:25Keke Palmer?

  Ooh.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Just go like that with your hand, that's what that chuck roast was doing.

• 33:29Keke Palmer?

  And you know what the thing about it is, that can be anything, that could be a chuck roast san- sandwich. You could do, like, I actually get some sides.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Cause I did put it on some potato bread and had a sandwich before I went to the theater the other day.

• 33:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Sure did.

• 33:40Keke Palmer?

  Went to the theater the other day.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Sure did.

• 33:43Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Okay, so, the tour ends, it's great. Somebody says, hey, Destiny, child.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:52Keke Palmer?

  You meet Miss Tina?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I mean, Miss Tina, Miss Tina and Solange come to pick me up from the airport.

• 33:57Keke Palmer?

  I love that they're the ones.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  They're the ones.

• 33:59Keke Palmer?

  Solange is right there.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Pick me up from the airport. I didn't really know what to expect. I go in and have a meeting, a good old sit-down, Miss Tina, Beyonce and Kelly, and they're like, well, just sing something for us. I sang a good old Negro spiritual called Walk With Me, Lord.

• 34:18Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I was like, girl, why are you, girl, sing, sing, say my name, something. No, I sang Walk With Me.

• 34:24Keke Palmer?

  I love that.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  A gospel song.

• 34:26Keke Palmer?

  She's rooted.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  And grounded.

• 34:28Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  And I didn't know, I was still trying to convince my mom that, Mom, I'm gonna go to college. I'm gonna go back to school. I said, but if you let me do one more gig, I'm gonna buy you that Chrysler 300M that you been wanting. Back in the day, that was in what, 1999, 2000?

• 34:48Keke Palmer?

  So she knew about the gigs, but she just thought it was a hobby?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and wanted, when you don't know, or you have an idea of how you think the industry works, there can be some worry about, how are you going to make a consistent living?

• 35:06Keke Palmer?

  For sure.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Right? You can be bringing in thousands today, and then you might not bring it in for the next year. What are you going to do? She wanted me to make sure I had a 401K, dental vision, health insurance, and a weekly, bi-weekly salary.

• 35:22Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  But Destiny's Child ended up, they was like, oh, this, oh, y'all for real? And it happened so fast, the videos, the award shows, the tours, the, all so many opportunities. And I have to say that I'm glad that I followed my heart, I prayed about it, I felt a release from God, like, go forward with this? And that was the year 1999 with Monica, and then the year 2000, Destiny's Child.

• 35:53Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and I don't know a Destiny's, like, obviously I do now, but I didn't know, growing up, a Destiny's Child, where it wasn't you three. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't always know, or remember the other, I found out about it as I got older, but you were the Destiny's Child that I knew.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, yep, originally Beyonce, Kelly, Latoya, and Latavia, um, the original member, and then before them. There was a whole other, you know, sprinklings and, you know?

• 36:20Keke Palmer?

  And so how did it feel for you, coming into something that already did have iteration? How did you build the stamina? You know, because maybe, I don't know how much you knew, if they were like, one of your favorite groups or whatever, but did you really think about that when you took on that role?

• 36:35Speaker 01

  I, I think, working in so many different auxiliaries in my church. Helped me to just get in there.

• 36:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  What do y'all need? I literally came in to serve. There was something about Beyonce and Kelly that I loved. Even, even after my first meeting, I said, if I don't, if this doesn't move forward, I can say that I met two of the sweetest girls in the world. I was, I put that in the back of my head. If I don't see them again, cool. But it was something about their dream, something about me saying, how can I help?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  I wasn't gonna go in, it's like me coming in your house, this is already set.

• 37:22Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  I'm not here to change it.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  What do you need from me? How can I add? What do you want me to do? How can I, let's go. Y'all good? We ready? Okay, let's go. It, it hasn't changed. It has not changed since. I, I, I finally felt cemented during the Destiny fulfilled era.

• 37:45Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  That last album.

• 37:46Keke Palmer?

  And what do you mean when you say cemented? What did that mean to you?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Kinda like, I'm planted, I'm, I'm, I'm grounded. This was all new.

• 37:54Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  It was still new and it was happening all so fast. I felt welcomed by them, but there were so many moving parts. It's, you're in the industry. Y'all just ain't friends, girlfriends. It's a whole thing.

• 38:08Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yes.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  You know, that I had to, and I, I, I think that's, that's what I meant. I think I felt like, okay, you have a place.

• 38:14Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and you understood some of the, the terrain.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:17Keke Palmer?

  Because I mean, you guys also, like, there's one side of the industry with artists where we do music videos, we show up, we do performances, we put the albums together, we do the recordings. But then there's also something that's been a huge part of Beyonce's career and Destiny Shy as a whole is touring.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Touring.

• 38:32Keke Palmer?

  Y'all tour, I don't think people understand how difficult it is to tour. I don't really, I love being with the fans, but the constant picking up and going and moving.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:42Keke Palmer?

  That is, like, we'll see the interviews with y'all and y'all be in Japan somewhere and y'all like.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Listen, okay, there, by the way, there is one interview where we did and people. People think we're high.

• 38:51Keke Palmer?

  I know the one.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  I promise y'all, Matthew and Tina Knowles was not playing that. We were not under the influence of any substance.

• 38:58Keke Palmer?

  Y'all was exhausted.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  We were tired.

• 39:01Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Tired.

• 39:02Keke Palmer?

  Tired and grateful.

• 39:06Keke Palmer?

  Come on, callback.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  No, we, we were really tired. Yeah, I promise you, there were no edibles. There, it was literally jet lag.

• 39:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  We were delusional.

• 39:17Keke Palmer?

  You could see it. I mean, obviously you can't see it in the performances because you guys always killed it. But seeing those interviews and also having the retrospect and understanding that as we're older, it's kind of like, damn, them girls was really working. And y'all was only twenty, twenty, you was twenty years old?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  And then some, some people would try it in interviews and then there are times we couldn't hide it.

• 39:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Media training is great, but when you tired or you're feeling disrespected, you, you can't hide it.

• 39:43Keke Palmer?

  No, it's so true.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  You, you, it's like.

• 39:46Keke Palmer?

  Because why you playing with me?

• 39:48Speaker 01

  No, seriously.

• 39:50Keke Palmer?

  People call you the queen of bridges.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:53Keke Palmer?

  How do you feel, you know, with that recognition?

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Oh, I love it. I want to be on Bridgerton. Okay, because of that.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  I don't know. Can you just imagine me in those ama- in that amazing wardrobe, just sinking bridges?

• 40:08Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Come on over, troubled water.

• 40:13Keke Palmer?

  Yo. That is too much.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  And I really, uh, I, I love that, you know? I love how, what, what we've evolved to in the recent years because of social media.

• 40:26Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  And how people are discovering things, people are discovering, you know, my contribution and.

• 40:33Keke Palmer?

  And viciously.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  And the appreciation.

• 40:35Keke Palmer?

  Of you.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  I'm like.

• 40:36Keke Palmer?

  We all are.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Y'all love me?

• 40:38Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Y'all love me. Thank you so much.

• 40:41Keke Palmer?

  Really are our Destiny's Child. Like, y'all really are. We love all, you know what I mean? Like, it's such a special, I can't imagine being representing, I mean, for us, you guys are the supremes. You know what I mean? It's like, it is defining in pop culture. And do you, when you look back on it in retrospect, for you, in the time, did you guys know that you were doing it? Was there, do I ever have talks where it's like, we are gonna change the game and da, da, da? Or was it kind of like, let's just have fun and damn, did we change the game?

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Let's have fun, let's try to get some sleep.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  For, I mean, it was so fast. I don't, I don't name dropping interviews, but I'm gonna name drop Janet Jackson. We saw her in like, the Netherlands or something for an award show and she said, "This goes by so quickly. Make sure every day, you're present. You take it in because so much is a blur."

• 41:44Keke Palmer?

  It's true.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  You get it. It's, it's, so much is a blur and so you have to try to be present. I've been to Paris so many times. I've never been to the Eiffel Tower.

• 41:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Cause you're so sleepy or the itinerary didn't have space for you to go.

• 42:02Keke Palmer?

  And Celine Dion, in her documentary, she spoke about this. She said, "I've seen the world, but I've seen nothing at all." You know what I mean? Because you're traveling all these places and you're doing all these different things, but you, you're not really embodying the experience.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that more. I was in Paris in February. Still didn't go to the Eiffel Tower. You know, but I,

• 42:25Keke Palmer?

  It ain't all that.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  I didn't have, I didn't have much time. Now, I've been to Paris and Las Vegas though.

• 42:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Come on. That makes me think of that movie, Paris, Texas, Paris, Paris, Texas. What they doing with a Paris and Texas?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  And I wanted to tell you, it's funny you should say that. I was like, "The world don't play about you either."

• 42:41Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  We, we don't play about Kiki. We don't play about you.

• 42:47Keke Palmer?

  It is so, thank you so much. It is so, it is just, I'm sure you feel the same way. It is just great when your community feels you.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Feels you and, and you feel them to see you and I think people know the real.

• 43:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  I appreciate moments where maybe I felt like I failed or maybe I felt.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Vulnerable in certain situations and they paused. It's almost like they paused with me.

• 43:15Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  You know when somebody in church messes up? They be like, "Take your time, baby. That's alright, baby. Let the Lord use you. You gonna get it together, sweetie." That's what I feel like people are for me.

• 43:27Keke Palmer?

  For real?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  It's alright, sweet sugar.

• 43:29Keke Palmer?

  I literally feel that exact same vibe.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Even at my age, I'll be forty-seven, I still feel.

• 43:35Keke Palmer?

  Girl, when?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  I still feel like the little girl where they're like, "It's alright, baby." And they tap you on your little, you know, on your little back.

• 43:43Keke Palmer?

  That just split my wig and I ain't even got it on. That's crazy. Forty-seven, girl, okay?

• 43:48Speaker 01

  I'm proud. I'm proud to say it.

• 43:50Keke Palmer?

  How do you know? You know what? It's because you look like this.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I'm proud of it. We work out. We drink. I try to drink water. I try to mind my business. Although I'm nosy. I'm very nosy. I ain't gonna hold you.

• 44:00Keke Palmer?

  But very sweet with my tea. It's never bitter and nasty. I'm not low down like that.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  We read. We research.

• 44:08Keke Palmer?

  Come on. And we get into it, but then it's like, "Girl, stop playing."

• 44:11Speaker 01

  I'm not nosy. I'm just researching.

• 44:13Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  So tell me, girl, what did he do? He said, "I know you lying." Girl, I heard it. I heard that.

• 44:21Keke Palmer?

  I'm good on it.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I've been hurt that. Girl, I've been hurt that, though. You can't tell me nothing. I knew that about them a long time ago. But you know, it's something that, but I get to the root of them.

• 44:30Keke Palmer?

  I love getting to the root. Don't let me start pathologizing or pathologizing. You know whatever they say.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Now, because of therapy and wellness,

• 44:41Speaker 01

  are you always discerning people?

• 44:44Keke Palmer?

  You know, I love what you had just said prior. Where I'm trying not to pathologize folks and be like, "And this is exactly why when you was five and that's why you this way today." Like, I try not, because it's like, girl, I'm not, I ain't did the, I ain't did the schoolwork for that.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Ooh, I turned into a fixer.

• 44:59Keke Palmer?

  But I do try to understand so that I don't carry on the impact of whatever I experienced with them.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  So good.

• 45:06Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 45:07Speaker 01

  So, I guess it's more so for us versus trying to fix them or tell them about themselves. It's like, okay, I'm analyzing this about you. I'm not gonna tell you what I'm analyzing, but it's helping me.

• 45:18Keke Palmer?

  It's helping me deal with you. It's helping me to understand why this isn't about me.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  That's so.

• 45:22Keke Palmer?

  I've got to do, because I actually personalize everything. Girl, everything is always, "They hurt me and this happened to me." It's like, girl, this is just life.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  That's so good.

• 45:33Keke Palmer?

  It's so, but you know, it's hard. We got to do it because I don't want my life messed up because I'm holding on to what you did to me that now I've somehow defined myself by.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  You said the word "personalizing" or "internalizing" things, you know? But betrayal, rejection, abandonment, all these things. And then when you find, you're in a situation, let's talk about even romantic relationships. It can be something that they say and you've personalized it. And they're like, "I just asked you, do you want chunky peanut butter or smooth?"

• 46:03Keke Palmer?

  Right, and that made you think about when you bumped your head that one time and your mama yelled like, "Let it go." Like, my girl, let it go.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I'mma choose smooth, by the way, peanut butter. Okay, go ahead.

• 46:12Keke Palmer?

  I, it depends on my mood. I do like smooth, but every now and then I want a little chunk.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  People that chunk, they're serial killers.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Not pathologized.

• 46:21Keke Palmer?

  Just call me Dexter. No, no. That was a good show.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  I'm just playing.

• 46:26Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Well, that makes me ask now, we got to, now we got to talk about love. And I got to get into your business. We got to sip some tea with respect to your boundaries. How is the love life going? You, you've been engaged, you know, you're not, no longer, unless you happen to keep it a cigarette.

• 46:48Keke Palmer?

  I need everybody to hear me clearly. You do not need a milestone to enjoy yourself. I said what I said. Society has us out here waiting for promotions, engagements, and New Year's Eve to twist open something nice. Meanwhile, I'm over here with a chilled glass of Stella Rosa Black because I remembered to water my plants three days in a row. That's growth, literally. And the flavor, sweet, smooth, rich, bold, deep berry, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry, all sitting together like a Real Housewives reunion where everybody kept their glass in their hand. This is wine for everyone 21 and up who understands that sometimes a celebration is the random Wednesday, or the quiet night in,

• 47:33Keke Palmer?

  or the I finished my laundry and put it all away in one day victory lap. You are the occasion, so please act accordingly. Head to StellaRosa.com to find your favorite flavor. Your next occasion, which is literally whenever you decide, is already taken care of because, baby, this is Stella Rosa. And please, please, please, drink responsibly.

• 47:58Keke Palmer?

  Let me walk you through my Tuesday. I woke up and immediately had to decide what to wear to a meeting, what to feed my son, whether I'm taking the call from my car or rescheduling, and it's not even 8 a.m. yet. By noon, I've made 100 decisions and I'm already over it. So the things in my life that don't require me to think, those are sacred. That's exactly what Fruit of the Loom Women's Underwear is for me. I open the drawer, I grab a pair, and I already know it's going to be comfortable and fit right. There's no guessing, no adjusting, no let me try another pair moment. It just works. When your whole day is full of decisions that actually need your energy, having that kind of simplicity in your routine creates real peace of mind. And trust me, that feels really, really good.

• 48:43Keke Palmer?

  Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good.

• 48:49Keke Palmer?

  This is exactly why I do this podcast. Real conversations, real journeys. And I mean, it's Michelle Williams, the queen of bridges herself. I was always gonna leave smiling. There is so much more of this to come this season, so make sure you're watching on Spotify. And if you really love somebody, tell them to subscribe to Spotify Premium, where there are no ads on the show, just the good stuff.

• 49:14Keke Palmer?

  Okay, so I've decided that you all will possibly see me with... I'll probably be a grandmother before you'll know it. I won't tell you. I learned my lesson. You ain't gonna tell... Did you say I ain't gonna hold you? It is a thing for us with the whole public thing. You know what I mean? If you see me with somebody, mind your business. Yeah, because, I mean, how do you feel about that as a public figure? Because I go back and forth. I've had people in my life that are in the industry that's like, they're bold with it. They believe in flaunting their relationship. They believe in, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not a thing for them. And then I have other people that are in our industry that have said, keep your man pri- keep your thing low.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  I won't hide it. Like, I'm not finna be asking for a private room at a restaurant, or I'm not gonna not walk down the street with someone. But I think I'll be very careful on personally posting things or doing reality shows.

• 50:10Keke Palmer?

  That seems so scary.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  It was wrong. I, I, now, some things you gotta take accountability for. I can't blame nobody else. There are certain decisions that I made that I would not do again.

• 50:23Keke Palmer?

  Sure.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  And especially the audacity think that you're gonna be the different one.

• 50:27Keke Palmer?

  Mm, mm.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  And I'm trying to figure out for relationships, for reality shows, I could be wrong.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  How has it worked out for people?

• 50:40Keke Palmer?

  I'm trying, uh, this is me sighing and thinking and trying to go down the scoreboard. You know?

• 50:47Speaker 01

  And, and people do it for a myriad of reasons. We did it because we thought we could show people something.

• 50:53Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  You know? But, and just no love lost, uh, to him and, um, his family. But, again, I'll be a grandmother.

• 51:04Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. They'll be like, where did you even have kids? I'm very much that. Like, you might see us out, but it'll be because you was looking for it. You know, I'm not, I feel that, I feel that way, and I've always felt that way. But I've also found myself, and I think we gotta try things on for size, right? I got found, I've found myself saying, well, let me, maybe I should. And then you realize that doesn't work for me. And it is what it is, and you move on.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  And eve- even before that, the public engagement, people, I was, I think, people even thought I was gay.

• 51:34Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  I just, I kinda...

• 51:38Keke Palmer?

  I'm sorry, that's something. People thought I was gay.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  I kinda moved, now, there are parts of me that I, that I felt moved a little masculine, though.

• 51:49Keke Palmer?

  I'm getting mad, but I'm a little gay, so.

• 51:53Keke Palmer?

  There's that.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Listen, and I, please don't take offense to me saying

• 51:59Keke Palmer?

  Oh, no, no.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  I just didn't believe in

• 52:02Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  like really being public or going public unless like we were a thing.

• 52:07Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  So that's just how I move. Like, you won't, you can't even get in my truck.

• 52:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Also, I think

• 52:15Speaker 01

  And, and I felt like when I grew up, the masculine, the men that I knew, you didn't introduce nobody to anybody, even in the family. There's, there was no social media until you felt like this is something.

• 52:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Even if it didn't work out, you felt like there was something special for me to bring you to my family.

• 52:33Keke Palmer?

  Yes, that little friend thing. You know, who's this little friend? You know, it's very careful.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Who's this little?

• 52:37Keke Palmer?

  Everybody in, everybody don't know. You know what I mean? It becomes a lot.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:39Keke Palmer?

  Um, you've talked so much. I also talk a lot about mental health. I love how honest and open you are with that, especially being a spiritual person, coming from the church, because a lot of times there's this idea where sometimes praying is just gonna do it. And sometimes you need more support. Like, it's like, of course I'm gonna pray, of course I have faith, but like, how can I find resources around me? And so, I wanna know from you, um, when we're talking about touring, being caught up in just having all this workload and those moments of being like, am I present? Am I in my body? When did you have that moment of checking back in and actually becoming aware of how your scenario was impacting you?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Ooh, this, I think my first therapy session was 2011-ish, 12-ish officially?

• 53:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  And I felt okay with therapy because I had heard Ms. Tina always championing therapy. Um, and I remember my first session seeing, I thought, I thought if you went to therapy, you had to have a certain look.

• 53:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  That it was visible why you need therapy. Maybe you were exhibiting some type of behavioral

• 53:50Keke Palmer?

  Issues.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  issues or responses to circumstances. But no, I saw people that looked like you and I. Fast forward to 2018, when I checked myself into a treatment facility for a depression. Again, I didn't see anybody that looked like they should be there. So I just wanted to tell people it, mental illness does not have a look. I also wanted to say, mental health is not mental illness. We all have the, we all have mental health, just like we have cardiovascular health, reproductive health.

• 54:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  But everyone does not have mental illness. Let's clarify that. Um, cause I do read a lot of comments when, when someone is going through something. I'll see a comment that says, "Mental health is real." It is, but I think you mean mental illness.

• 54:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  We all have.

• 54:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  Mind health, brain health.

• 54:43Keke Palmer?

  And it's like, you don't go to the doctors once you're already sick. I mean, I miss, maybe some people do, but it's like the whole hope is that you, no, you're doing those little checkups. And it could be anything. It could be therapy. It could be, I need to go be with my family.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  I encourage people to just try and you, your first therapist, it might not be a match. But therapy isn't always to process trauma, doom and gloom. It could be to process transition.

• 55:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Or there's life coaching. You feel stuck.

• 55:11Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Coaching helps you get over a certain hurdle.

• 55:15Keke Palmer?

  I mean, somebody's told me about a divorce coach.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 55:18Keke Palmer?

  Where it coaches you in divorce. I've even heard most recently, which I think is very interesting is not therapy in the regard of just, you know, what we're thinking about on the surface, but like working with neuroscientists on cog, your cognitive profile.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 55:32Keke Palmer?

  To understand the way that you receive the information. And so that you're better to understand what works for you cognitively.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  I'm now, we're gonna really be, we're talking about neuroscientists. Um, Dr. Caroline Leaf is amazing and she has, she taught me about neuroplasticity and how we have the power to change our actual brains, just by our, just by our thoughts.

• 55:55Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  What we think, what we consume, what we meditate on. All right.

• 56:01Keke Palmer?

  It's so.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  This part, we gotta do part two.

• 56:03Keke Palmer?

  Okay. It's so good. That's why I love practices like Pilates as well. Because they offer that same thing where they can help support changing neural pathways.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 56:12Keke Palmer?

  And so it's just like, again, all those things, when we talk about value, we talk about money. When we talk about where we want to put our investment, like, you know, sometimes it is great. Like we're saying, love a good shoe, love a nice, comfortable look, love getting this hair done. And those are part of it, right? But then there's also this stuff too, that I feel like. Is priceless, but it also is costly. Knowing about them, having the resources to get to them. And I really like, I don't know, I just love that because these are also, these are the things that really um once they help, once they come, they don't just stay on the outside.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. And people, people talk about being able to afford mental health resources. There, if, if you're in college during certain, I don't know if it's both semesters where you can get a certain amount of free um, therapy depending on the university you go to or your job. Your insurance will help you find um, you know, therapists. I tell people also go to psychologytoday.com. You can filter if you want black, white, female, male, unclassified, whatever it is you want to find. I just, I would just, just try it once.

• 57:26Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  You know, counseling, some, something to help you just unpack certain things that you don't have to carry.

• 57:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I mean, you wrote your book, Checking In: How Getting Real About Depression Saved My Life and Can Save Yours. Congratulations on that.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 57:44Keke Palmer?

  Um, you opened up about depression, obviously, and anxiety. And what those things can look like, because a lot of times I think we don't know when we are depressed. Like you talk about functioning but not living and

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 57:56Keke Palmer?

  Um, how did that show up for you?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Oh, um, I think in, in tears, sometimes it can just look like we don't think it's irritability. You think it's PMS. No, irritability can be a missed symptom or they're all, no, irritability. Um, not wanting to get up.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  You know, you feel like, oh, it's a way, I've, one time I felt like I had a weighted blanket on me.

• 58:25Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Um, just, and um, recently, as of 2024, I really thought I was depressed and my iron levels were just low.

• 58:36Keke Palmer?

  Okay, let me just get a, those supplement, the vitamins is real.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I just wanna say that my iron and ferritin was very low. I just want to say that too. So check with your doctors too. It might not be depression. It might be just certain things in your blood, um, things going on that are, that are very low. Um, fatigue, loss of interest, just and then, and then the ideation of suicide. Like playing my funeral, knowing what it looked like, knowing who I wanted to speak. Now eighty years from now, okay, I want you to cremate me and sprinkle me in front of the original Popeyes. Okay, the original, the real one. In New Orleans. And, yep, don't play. My parents, actually, they fell in love. They met, first met in New Orleans and they went to Popeyes, they had Popeyes for the first time.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Isn't that so? I mean, Popeyes is special. That was a, a, a period of time where I don't play with it anymore. If I, if I'm feeling close to burnout. Burnout sometimes because you're just saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because you feel bad for letting someone down. Yeah. The other thing that I think people got to think about too with this burnout thing, um, is burnout. If you have a high capacity, looks like, yes.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  It do. It do. You too on it. Like, girl, put your foot down. Why you look like rigor mortis? Is she, she high functioning depression? People need to know that because burnout, a lot of times it doesn't look like. It does not. That you burned out. It's like you're, you're almost too good. Listen, one, there was a period of time even after my hospitalization, I thought I was riding. I thought I was rising and my therapist, who is a psychologist and a professor. Now, a psychiatrist can diagnose. Sure. Your therapist really ain't supposed to, but because they been around, they can kind of guess. So I'm just all excited, thinking I'm making progress. I said, oh my gosh, doctor.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  So if you had to diagnose me today, what would you say? I'm thinking she's gonna say, girl, you're doing good. She said, high functioning depression.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:00:52Keke Palmer?

  Uh oh, gagged me.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Because I had come back, I was doing well, da da da da da.

• 1:01:02Keke Palmer?

  But she was observing things that I was saying or doing or emotionally and she was like, she literally was like, high functioning depression.

• 1:01:11Keke Palmer?

  First of all, that acting is so good. Whoever that, I know that lady. Like, like, the way that you slipped into her vibe.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  That's exactly what she did. Now, it's not an official diagnosis.

• 1:01:23Keke Palmer?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  But, you know, it, it, it looks like going and going and going, that smile on your face. You know, because the other spectrum of depression is the sadness.

• 1:01:34Keke Palmer?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  You know, I can't say their sadness has life, life, but I've known how to recover and bounce back and be resilient. Yes, but you still had, I was like, what?

• 1:01:43Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Gagged me down.

• 1:01:44Keke Palmer?

  It's so important, because a lot of time, it doesn't look the way people think. But if you're lacking recall, if you can't remember moments of your life, if you're having blackouts, if you're...

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:01:53Keke Palmer?

  Not, oh, how did I get here? That's that.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:01:57Keke Palmer?

  That's that.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  That's that.

• 1:01:58Keke Palmer?

  Oh, we could, we can keep going. Or, you, you know you gotta get up and go to work and you lay around until the very last minute. Ooh. Because, girl, now you got five minutes to get there.

• 1:02:15Keke Palmer?

  People are probably listening to me and like, that's me every day. Should I be worried? Because I think everybody is a little bit, um, we're in a time right now. And, and the ti- and look, we, we've probably always been there. Maybe we're just in a time of deep meta-awareness.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:31Keke Palmer?

  Where we're just talking about the things that we've been experiencing out loud. Um, in pop culture, it's become a thing, but we're all, we've all become so hyper vigilant, so hyper functioning.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:02:44Keke Palmer?

  Because, first of all, we're all being watched. Even if you're not an entertainer, if you got a social media page, you're being watched. And by the way, your life could be on the line. If you say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And now, now, everything you say is a speech. You gotta sit there like Barack Obama getting ready to go and talk to the national press.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I had anxiety, I have anxiety about interviews.

• 1:03:04Keke Palmer?

  Girl.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Because I'm like...

• 1:03:06Keke Palmer?

  I, I care. So if I'm passionate, as something comes out, I don't mean it. And it's like, you gotta wait. It's like Rihanna in that meme, everybody and all the who's and hays and everyone that knows and loves. Because you just don't wanna get it wrong.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  You just don't wanna get it wrong and you just want people to know your heart.

• 1:03:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, so much.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Then we'll get, then the people pleasing.

• 1:03:29Keke Palmer?

  And then we have the other side of the expression, right? Because that's one side, right? There's the, all the, the moral signaling that we're seeing online. And I'm such a good person, you see, you see? And the other side is, I hate everybody. Because you know what? I don't wanna be got, so now I'm just gonna be angry and mean and nasty.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  And then it's like, cause I kept it real from day one, I told y'all.

• 1:03:49Keke Palmer?

  You know? So it's like, we have these two sides of the spectrum where we have people that are feeling like, ah. Then we have the other side where it's like, well, it's all gonna go to hell anyway. It's like trying to find this in-between of dealing with this pressure. And from the beginning, when social media came and I loved social media and I loved being able to talk. But I immediately said, well, I need, I need to do something because this world is a little too much of an echo chamber. And it's creating something. How do we, how do we take this off to, off to digital and bring it somewhere else? And so I'm really happy that, you know, I can at least have these conversations, that people can listen to these conversations. Cause it's like a lot.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Please listen to the conversations and go back and grab the piece of you that's left. Nurture them, alright? And just nurture them, take time away from social media. Now, I need y'all to be on social media so you can know when my episode with Kiki come out now, I'm gonna tell you that.

• 1:04:47Keke Palmer?

  Yes, and know about Coming to See You and Death Becomes Her on Broadway. Congratulations again, I'm so excited to see the show. It's been a great time, I can imagine, keeping us updated.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  It is great, um, eight shows a week. Um, we are still here in New York City.

• 1:05:02Keke Palmer?

  Fabulous.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Every weekly. I'm literally looking out at the audience, having a moment of gratitude. Like, wow, y'all are still showing up, continue to show up. We wanna be here as long as we can.

• 1:05:14Keke Palmer?

  How's your diet? I only ask how's your diet because, you know. That the the pressure on the voice doing that Broadway. I couldn't have no yeast. I couldn't have noth-

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  I think when I was doing Aida, what, were you doing Cinderella? I think you were doing, um, this is way back in 2003. Y'all, we go way back in this, in this thing.

• 1:05:31Keke Palmer?

  Forever.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  So, listen, I had coffee yesterday because it was a two-show day. I'm not supposed to have any caffeine. When I tell you the way my throat

• 1:05:40Keke Palmer?

  It's so bad.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  dried out. I was struggling. I had to do the whole vocal thing and get some humidity and do all the things. So, no, no, um, dairy during the week. My cheat day is like Sundays slash Monday afternoon. Um, and, uh, lots of rest. The time change has been kicking my glutinous max today.

• 1:06:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, why did it check us up so bad, that time change?

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  It's been, it's been, uh, it's been, it's been a struggle for me. I don't know why. But I didn't realize it was the time change until like the day before because apparently before the time change, you're supposed to be adjusting like the week prior.

• 1:06:19Keke Palmer?

  They got too many rules for us. Slow the [bleep] on down. Tell them farmers, let it be daytime.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Can't, can't we just move in a time zone where it don't change? That's, that's the only thing I can think of.

• 1:06:30Keke Palmer?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  I'll just be in Phoenix for the rest of my days. Because I don't think Phoenix changes. Phoenix or-

• 1:06:37Keke Palmer?

  Why they get to do that?

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  I don't think Phoenix, Arizona, that's-

• 1:06:40Keke Palmer?

  The daylight savings, not them.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  I don't think, I don't think they change.

• 1:06:43Keke Palmer?

  Wow. Lucky Phoenix. I don't know what else is there other than that. No shade, no shade.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  You tried. It's dry, though.

• 1:06:52Keke Palmer?

  Okay, let's get into this game. I always do a game at the end with all my guests. And so this was called Sing It or Cut It. Okay, I'm gonna give you two Destiny's Child songs.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Oh, don't do that.

• 1:07:01Keke Palmer?

  Cut one or save the other, or you can keep both, but you gotta sing a little bit of your favorite part of the song.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:08Keke Palmer?

  Okay. Say My Name or Survivor.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Oh, Say My Name. I wouldn't even know Say My Name. Say My Name hits, but I'm a survivor. I'm a survivor is great. By the way, someone came to the show yesterday. It was like, I love you, Michelle. I'm a survivor.

• 1:07:24Keke Palmer?

  Darkness and sadness.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Soon comes happiness.

• 1:07:28Keke Palmer?

  If I surround myself with fine things.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Yes, because you came in like- I know, and I guess besides Independent Women, Survivor, I should have picked Survivor because that was the first time where, you know, you could hear my voice, but Say My Name?

• 1:07:45Keke Palmer?

  I mean it's

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  You listen to that today.

• 1:07:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  That, ooh it

• 1:07:53Keke Palmer?

  They just did, what's her name, just did, uh, Ella Mai. She just did a little, um, interpolation of it.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  By the way, shout out to y'all making, I don't know, maybe Beyonce and Kelly don't fit away, but shout out to y'all sampling stuff, making me feel

• 1:08:05Keke Palmer?

  I live for the sampling. I do. Every now, especially if they redo, you know, they really give it new life.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:10Keke Palmer?

  Cater to you or girl.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 1:08:15Keke Palmer?

  Cause why was she?

• 1:08:18Keke Palmer?

  Jelly's been lying to you. Girl, if my friend was screaming in my face like that, I'm like, shut up. I love him.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 1:08:29Keke Palmer?

  This song is so good.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  Cater to you or girl? I think because of the mus- musicality, I will go with girl.

• 1:08:38Keke Palmer?

  It's so good.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:40Keke Palmer?

  It's so good. I mean, cater to you, obviously iconic.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Cater to you is amazing.

• 1:08:44Keke Palmer?

  They're both iconic, that's why it's hard.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Cater to you is beautiful. And then people like, I ain't putting, I'm not doing that for no, I ain't doing that for that. You do it for the person you love that make you feel like you wanna cater to them.

• 1:08:53Keke Palmer?

  I was definitely one of the people, I ain't doing it for, we've all been there. We've all catered.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Rub that man's corny feet.

• 1:08:58Keke Palmer?

  Oof. Bills, bills, bills. Or jumping, jumping.

• 1:09:09Keke Palmer?

  This is how the girls is today. They want that [BLEEP] aid.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  They need

• 1:09:15Keke Palmer?

  Right, that was like I done went from independent women to soft life.

• 1:09:23Keke Palmer?

  Like, like, oh my gosh, that is so funny.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  It's hard being independent. Give me soft.

• 1:09:30Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Jeez, I'm tired of taking the trash out.

• 1:09:33Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Michelle, you should have people to do that for you. I don't.

• 1:09:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  I don't. I take it right to the trash chute. Or in my, my home in Georgia, I have to take it to the curb.

• 1:09:44Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:09:45Keke Palmer?

  I hate that whole taking it to the curb gag. Come on. But hey, it's life, you know?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  What could you do?

• 1:09:54Keke Palmer?

  Okay, which one? You have to choose.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Ah, I, I didn't pick.

• 1:09:57Keke Palmer?

  Blah, blah, blah. Or jumping, jumping.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  See, I wanna be at home, so I'm gonna go with Bills, Bills, Bills. Period. I love that. Ladies and gentlemen, the club is filled, honey, and the party's still going. I'm home. Okay. Okay. Lose My Breath, a soldier. Oh dang. Ooh, it's them drums in Lose My Breath that get me. Oh, really? Every time. Soldier, I live for. I mean, I just live also the video.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  We gotta bring Kiki on in, Destiny's Child, you hear me? I need to do a damn parody. Uh-oh, on my Weird Al Yoko bench? Come on.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  Do it. I gotta feel it. I approve. I'm actually on some new stuff. I approve, sis, I approve. Do it.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Okay, last one.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Nasty Girl. Or T-shirt? Ooh.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  They gonna be like, oh, did the podcast stop?

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  I like T-shirt, it's so sensual. Aw, okay, she's a sensual girl, you are Leo. They're very horny. Kix. I go to Sunday School. You are absolutely amazing. Girl, my feet was kicked up. It's been a joy, it's been a joy. Y'all, when I tell you, look at these shoes, honey. Come on, they're giving you some Greek goddess type of. I'm here for. I don't know why I chose these, but hey. I am here for you. I'm here for you. No, seriously, I'm here for you. The people haven't confused you with the, um, white Michelle Williams? Absolutely, I get her fan mail. Oh my gosh. I get her fan mail, and sometimes I sign it, and, and give a, and put a picture of me in it, and say, this is me.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Imagine her showing up, and they're like, bitch. But she, she has done. Where is Michelle Williams? They probably have, and I'm like, I'ma give you life. I, I opened the show, so if you was expecting the other Michelle, you gonna be like, I'm in, you are good.

• 1:12:12Keke Palmer?

  But I was able to meet her.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Oh, so yummy.

• 1:12:15Keke Palmer?

  I know she told you the same thing, that people be thinking she's you, you know.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  She gets, she gets fan mail. I've gotten

• 1:12:21Keke Palmer?

  That is so cute.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  Things in the mail that were supposed, that were supposed to be for her.

• 1:12:26Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Certain calls, I think. I don't, I don't know how true this is, but apparently, I think she went to a concert and they were expecting me, and then she pulls up.

• 1:12:39Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh. I would have loved to got, you know, backstage, because they thought I was Michelle, what was going on stage. I know, I know.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  But I, I absolutely adore her. I think she's very talented.

• 1:12:51Keke Palmer?

  She is talented, very talented.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  But Kiki, I want you to come to see That Becomes Her. I'm coming. And I, I appreciate you, I appreciate who you are to this world, the contribution of joy and light that you bring. I can't imagine that it's always easy, but because of your heart, that's how you're able to get through. So I appreciate you. I'm here, I'm, I don't want to be auntie, but I'm big sis, I'm your big cousin. I'm, I'm here. I adore you.

• 1:13:21Keke Palmer?

  That means the world to me. I really adore you, and I feel the same about you. And I just feel like God is what holds us up, and so I love when we can have a praise session and get down into it. But I will be honest, anytime that I've been around you, Beyonce, or Kelly, it's a little bit too much.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Why? What did we do?

• 1:13:40Keke Palmer?

  Because.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Hit me, what happened?

• 1:13:42Keke Palmer?

  I am starstruck. I am star, so it's very, I'm always like,

• 1:13:49Keke Palmer?

  you know, because I mean, you guys are you guys, you guys are you guys, so, you know, just know that.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  And you are Kiki. You are Keke Palmer, the Keke Palmer.

• 1:14:01Keke Palmer?

  Okay?

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  I love you so much.

• 1:14:03Keke Palmer?

  I love you bad.

• 1:14:07Keke Palmer?

  It is so refreshing to hear someone be real about their journey. What it took to face it, get help, and grow through it. And I think what Michelle's story shows is it's not just about what you go through. It's about what you choose after. She did the work to heal and is now helping other people to find their way too. And that's powerful. So if we're gonna take anything from this conversation, let it be we don't have to keep performing through our lives. We can check in, choose ourselves, and start again. All right, you guys, I'll see you next time on Baby. This is Keke Palmer.