How Your Beliefs Control Your Future & Why Climate Solutions Need a Rethink

Nothing can ruin a meal faster than someone loudly slurping soup, coffee, or noodles. At least that's what many people think. Yet in some cultures, slurping isn't rude at all—it's expected. And as annoying as it may sound, there is actually a surprisingly good reason people do it. https://www.discovermagazine.com/its-not-rude-slurping-makes-food-taste-better-42739 Your beliefs do far more than influence how you see the world—they influence what happens next. The beliefs you hold about yourself, your abilities, other people, and the future affect the opportunities you notice, the risks you're willing to take, and even how successful you're likely to become. The remarkable thing is that many of our most important beliefs operate in the background, quietly steering our decisions without us even realizing it. Shawn Achor, one of the world's leading experts on mindset, happiness, and human potential, explains how beliefs shape our lives, where those beliefs come from, and how changing them can dramatically alter your path. Shawn's TED Talk has been viewed more than 25 million times, and he is author of The Power of Beliefs (https://amzn.to/4a1eR7m). Shawn’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work When people talk about helping the environment, the conversation often sounds like a list of things you have to give up: drive less, fly less, consume less, turn down the thermostat, and generally make life a little less enjoyable. But what if that approach is backward? What if some of the best things you can do for the planet also happen to make you happier? Psychologist Elizabeth Dunn offers a refreshing alternative to guilt, sacrifice, and doom-and-gloom messaging. Elizabeth's work has appeared in major media outlets around the world, and she is co-author of Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species (https://amzn.to/4oyXl09). Elizabeth’s TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_dunn_helping_others_makes_us_happier_but_it_matters_how_we_do_it The English language is alive. Words and phrases that were once considered incorrect, awkward, or even ridiculous can become perfectly acceptable over time. In fact, some expressions we use every day would have made earlier generations cringe. The evolution of language offers a fascinating look at how culture changes—and how today's "mistakes" sometimes become tomorrow's rules. https://time.com/4293303/garner-common-words-mistakes/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS AIR DOCTOR: Head to ⁠⁠⁠https://AirDoctorPro.com⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code SYSK to get $250 off select AirDoctor air purifiers, including the 3500, 4000, and 5500 models. Plus, you’ll receive a free 3year warranty! RULA: Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that’s actually covered by insurance. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Rula.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started. QUINCE: Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! SHOPIFY: It's time to turn those "what ifs" into CHA CHING with Shopify Today! Sign up for your $1 per month trail and start selling today at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Shopify.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:32Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, the reason some people slurp their food even though it can be so annoying. Then, what you believe about yourself and the world can change everything about your life.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  When someone has an optimistic mindset, when they have optimistic beliefs, it improves literally every single business and educational outcome we know how to test for. Basically, what we're finding is that a positive brain positively changes the next outcome for you.

• 1:00Mike Carruthers?

  Also, common words today that would have sounded ridiculous not that long ago. And things you can do to help the planet that are not all about making sacrifices.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  So I think the climate movement has gone a little awry in sort of emphasizing that approach. And I think there's a much more joyful approach to say, hey, what matters to you? What would make your life better? Let's focus on that.

• 1:26Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know. Now, here's something that might be worth a minute of your time. How would you like $1,000 to spend on shopping, especially with the holidays coming? Well, the people behind Shopify have a shopping site called shop.com. And to celebrate the new shop.com, they're giving away $1 million in Shop Cash. But not to one person. 1,000 people will each win $1,000 in Shop Cash.

• 2:00Mike Carruthers?

  And shop.com is actually a really clever idea. It brings lots of different stores together in one place. So, instead of bouncing around from website to website, you can search across stores, find what you're looking for, and track your orders, all in one place. Clothes, electronics, gifts, things for the house, all kinds of stuff. And whether you win or not, it's worth knowing, but with a thousand chances to win $1,000, I'd certainly take a look. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win.

• 2:44Mike Carruthers?

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• 2:56Speaker 04

  Something You Should Know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today. Something You Should Know. With Mike Carruthers.

• 3:09Mike Carruthers?

  Don't you just hate it when somebody sitting near you is slurping their food? Well, you might hate it just a little less after you hear this. Hi, I'm Mike Carruthers. Welcome to Something You Should Know. So, there may be no dining habit more annoying than listening to somebody slurp their food. Yet, in some parts of the world, especially when eating noodles, slurping isn't considered rude at all. In fact, it's encouraged. And there may be good reasons why. Scientists who study flavors say slurping can actually make food taste better. When you slurp, you pull air into your mouth along with the food, and that extra air helps

• 3:51Mike Carruthers?

  carry aroma molecules to your nose through a process called retinocarcinoid olfaction. Since much of what we perceive as flavor actually comes from smell, slurping can make food seem more flavorful and satisfying. Slurping also cools hot food as they enter your mouth, allowing you to eat them at a temperature that may better release their aromas.

• 4:15Mike Carruthers?

  That's one reason noodle lovers in Japan often insist that ramen is meant to be slurped, not politely twirled and chewed. So while the sound may drive everyone around you crazy, the slurper may actually be getting more flavor out of his bite than everybody else. And that is something you should know. Why do some people seem to thrive in the exact same circumstances that leave other people stuck, anxious, or overwhelmed? According to my guest, the answer may have less to do with talent, intelligence, or luck, and more to do with belief.

• 4:56Mike Carruthers?

  The beliefs you hold about yourself, other people, money, work, success, even whether the future will be better than the past, don't just influence how you think, they influence what you do, what opportunities you see, what risks you take, and ultimately, what happens to you. In fact, my guest says that scientifically speaking, beliefs don't just reflect reality, they can actually bend reality. Joining me is Sean Acor. Sean is one of the leading experts on the connection between mindset, happiness, and success. His TED Talk has been viewed more than 25 million times.

• 5:36Mike Carruthers?

  He's advised everyone from Fortune 100 companies, and NASA, to the NFL, and to US presidential administrations. He's author of a book called "The Power of Beliefs." Hey Sean, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 5:53Mike Carruthers?

  So the sentence that really grabbed me when I was looking over the information about your book is this sentence: "The greatest predictor of your future is the beliefs you hold about the world." So I'd like you to explain that because I think that's a great place to start this conversation.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  That's a great place to start. I think we've known for a long time that our beliefs are powerful. What the research that I've been doing over the past 10 years has been showing is that we've been underestimating how powerful our beliefs are of predicting our future lives. For example, a study came out earlier this year from Yale and they tracked 12,000 seniors over a 12-year period of time from age 65 to age 77. And most people believe that as you get older, as you move towards 77, that there's a decline mentally and physically. We hold that belief. We don't even put that in the belief category. We put that in the scientific fact category.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  But it turns out that that's actually accurate. When they looked at the research for the 12,000 seniors, it turns out that the most people and the average person did decline mentally and physically during that time. But what they discovered in that data set changed the way that we thought about how beliefs work. Because what they found is that while it's true that we decline, it turns out that for 32% of the seniors, using the same measures of cognition and memory, it turns out that at age 77, 32% of them outperformed their 65-year-old self, that they actually improved and got better during that period of time.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  26% of the seniors actually, on the same physical measures, had improved as well. So one out of three or one out of four of the seniors had done something that was completely opposite of what we thought just naturally happens in life, that as you age, you automatically decline. And I'm not going to argue that we don't decline. But what I'm going to argue for is that it doesn't necessarily happen up until age 77, like we believe it does. When they went back into the research, what they discovered at Yale and why it became such an important study, is they found that the only differentiating factor between the seniors that improved and the ones that declined was the belief. About how they were supposed to fare during that period from 65 to 77.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  If they believed that as you got older, you became more useless or that you declined. It turns out that's exactly what they saw with two thirds or three quarters of the seniors. But for a third of the seniors, when they believed the growth was possible, it turns out that's exactly what they saw happening in the data set, which started to change what we thought. Things that we thought were scientifically fixed. Our beliefs were changing what would happen even 12 years later in someone's life.

• 8:50Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that's a pretty impressive story. If you did it again with those same people and instead of being 77, they were now, you know, 90, what 100, how old would they be? And many of them may have likely passed away. I mean, beliefs can only take you so far. At some point, the Grim Reaper will come get you.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's absolutely true. And this is such an important distinction in the research is that positive beliefs don't guarantee positive outcomes, but they do propel us towards them. What that means is that if you have two individuals, both starting at age 65, and one believes that they're naturally just going to decline up until age 77 and that they're going to go worse mentally and physically and that they'll become more, in the study, useless in society. It turns out that's actually increases the likelihood of them falling into that category of the seniors that declined. But when they believed that change and growth was possible, those were the ones that trended, their trajectory trended in a positive direction,

• 9:55Speaker 02

  which is part of the reason why that our beliefs about the world change the math about what is possible and probable in our lives. And not only does it change the math, by changing the math, beliefs change the path we take. It changes how engaged we are with other people. It changes our likelihood of looking for work or looking for love. And by opening up those possibilities for people, it changes us.

• 10:19Mike Carruthers?

  Well, you said something in the beginning, and that is that that belief in that study, that that belief of what happens to you, we don't even consider it a belief. So you can't really change your belief unless you realize it's a belief. And so what are the kinds of beliefs? That maybe we don't pay attention to or don't realize that there are beliefs that we could change.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Such a great question, because we have beliefs about a lot of things, but most people don't put them in that category. For example, when I ask most people about the beliefs that they hold about this world, they'll usually tell me whether or not they're liberal or conservative. And if I say, okay, give me some more beliefs, then they might tell me if they're religious or not. And then if I say, okay, great, give me some more. After that, people start to peter out. They say, I don't know, I think, I think my jets are going to win the Super Bowl next year, which both of us know is not in the realm of possibility. But what's amazing about this is that we actually have an unlimited beliefs about the world. We have beliefs about whether or not it's safe to get into a Waymo, or whether or not crypto has value.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  We have beliefs about whether or not AI is improving our lives, or it's going to cause the extinction of humanity. We have beliefs about things we don't even know we have beliefs about. For example, researchers have continually shown that if I give you a fake sugar pill, a placebo, and we color it yellow or orange, for the majority of people, it has a stimulant effect upon it, upon those individuals, even if there's no medicine in the placebo. And if it's colored blue, or purple, or green, it turns out that for many people, it has a tranquilizing effect. You might not even know that your brain has equated those beliefs to those outcomes, but it's still creating that pattern, even if it's a conscious or an unconscious belief in our lives.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  So what we're trying to evaluate is, are the beliefs that we hold about the world serving us? For example, the one that I mentioned with the Yale study about aging. But there's some incredible studies that we had been overlooking that show how much our beliefs change even today. So for example, there is a demonstration experiment done by Richard Weisman in the UK. And he gave everyone, all the participants that came into a study, he gave them a newspaper and had them count the number of photographs in the newspaper. And if they got it right, they would get five pounds, because it was occurring in the UK. And before giving them the newspaper, he asked them a series of questions. And the questions were things like, Do you believe you're a lucky person?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Or do you believe you're an unlucky person? Do you think good things just naturally happen to you? Or do bad things just keep happening to you in your life? And you have to be resilient? Those are proxy questions for optimism. And then he has them take this test where they count the number of photographs. Well, what the participants don't know is on page two of the newspaper, and in everyone's newspaper, in big letters, but outside of a photograph, it says, "Stop the experiment now. If you stop now, the researchers will give you 10 pounds, double the offering in the first place." It turns out that the majority of the participants who claimed that they were unlucky, the good things just don't happen to them, the majority of them finished the study

• 13:36Speaker 02

  and get paid the five pounds after counting the photographs. The majority of the people who claimed that they were lucky, the good things just happened to them, the majority of them stopped the experiment on page two and get paid double the amount of the other participants. Neuroscientists later looked to see why this was occurring. And what it turns out is when your brain believes that there's a possibility for good things to happen in your world, if you believe that good things could happen, your brain scans for the likelihood of those things occurring. It scans for possibility. And as a result of that, when you scan for possibility and create resources for that, you see opportunities like those students did on page two. But if you believe that bad things happen to you,

• 14:20Speaker 02

  or that the world is against you, or that people are selfish, or if you believe any of the cynicism, or pessimism, or skepticism that causes us to ignore the potential for optimism or for opportunities in an environment, your brain doesn't scan for them. And as a result of that, you miss it. So what we see when we look at the research in aggregate is that when someone has an optimistic mindset, when they have optimistic beliefs, it improves literally every single business and educational outcome we know how to test for. Basically, what we're finding is that a pause of brain positively changes the next outcome for you.

• 14:57Mike Carruthers?

  But I know people, I've worked with people who are very successful and some of the most miserable people to be around.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yes, you can have very successful people that are negative. You can have very successful people or very negative people who live to be 100. But the path that you take along the way is going to be impacted by the beliefs we hold, and it's not just our optimism. In the book, I identified these seven core beliefs that I think are these umbrella beliefs. They're the most predictive. So there's lots of beliefs we have about the world, but some of them change the needle more than others. And so I looked back, not only at psychology, but my background initially was from the divinity school. So I was looking back at religion, I was looking back at history. And what I kept finding were these seven patterns that kept emerging. I wasn't looking for seven.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  I hoped it wasn't seven, because my first book was about seven principles. But what I kept finding was that these core beliefs shifted you one direction or another. If you believe that your behavior matters versus it doesn't. So the belief that my behavior matters, or that I matter, or that I am not alone, or that this work is meaningful, or that I have something to give, that I have something to be grateful for, or there is something greater than me. Those seven beliefs trended people in almost every study I looked at in a positive direction. And if you believe that my behavior doesn't matter, that I'm alone, that I don't matter, this work is not meaningful, that I have nothing to give, I'm missing out, and there's

• 16:29Speaker 02

  nothing greater than me, it leads to exactly what we're seeing in society, which is these four horsemen of the modern world, the burnout, anxiety, loneliness, and depression that are literally at historic highs.

• 16:43Mike Carruthers?

  I want to explore where beliefs come from, because when I think about it, I believe a lot of things, but I'm not sure what has led me to believe those things. So let's discuss that in just a moment.

• 17:28Speaker 05

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• 17:55Mike Carruthers?

  We're talking about your beliefs with my guest, Shawn Achor, who is author of the book The Power of Beliefs. And Shawn, when you consider how many beliefs we hold, we don't really question them, and in many cases, we don't know where they came from. There are a lot of beliefs in society that people buy into, and sometimes they stick around, sometimes they go. I mean, there was a pretty strong belief, for example, that girls aren't good at math. And yeah, that's pretty much gone away. But I think people really believe that.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Before I got into this research, there is a whole field on stereotype threat research, which is if there's a stereotype in society and you activate it, you can change the performance of someone that either has that belief or doesn't have that belief. So for example, if you have a group of women, which is what they did in most of the studies, a group of women where half of them read an article that says, just a neutral article about math, and then the other half read an article that says, "Women are bad at math." And then, after reading that short article, then both groups take a math test. And if they're randomly assigned, both groups should have equal test scores. There's no statistical reason why there should be any change to their math ability.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  But after reading an article that says that people like you are bad at math, you do worse at math, which is amazing that just priming a negative belief in someone that isn't even true of the individual listening to it can actually cause you to get worse at very simple things like math, but can also do much damage to much more complex things like, can I find a job? Or can I find love? Or is this world against me or for me?

• 19:44Mike Carruthers?

  You know, as I think about this, I wonder how many beliefs people have because someone told them...

• 19:52Mike Carruthers?

  To believe it. In other words, some authority on something stated something as a fact and you buy it. And so now it's your belief, but it may not be a fact and maybe shouldn't be a belief.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yes. So I think that's exactly it because let's take someone who's looking at the job market right now with AI coming in. I just had an experience where I came in to speak at a large public school and the superintendent got up in front of me and said, we've got a guy to come talk about positive beliefs and happiness because we could all use it right now because our graduates are graduating into the worst world the graduates have ever graduated into. And I heard him and what I realized was, one, I think he's wrong, but two, he's changing how the students, the parents and the staff are experiencing a challenge in this world. First of all, these kids are not graduating into a world

• 20:52Speaker 02

  in which there's a military draft in the United States, like in the 20s and 30s and 70s. They're not graduating into a world war or into a Great Depression. They're not graduating into a world in which there's no anesthesia. There are massive headwinds and challenges that people are experiencing right now, but when you categorize it as the worst possible world we can graduate into, it changes whether or not we want to bring kids into this world or whether or not we're going to focus on our poetry or studying English or history. But to your point, if you look at this world, if someone believes that there are no jobs out there, they don't apply for jobs, which makes logical

• 21:35Speaker 02

  sense because there's no jobs. But if you believe that their jobs are just really hard to get, you have an increased likelihood of applying for that job, which at least increases the likelihood of you getting that job over a state where you never applied for the job. So what you're seeing is how much our future life can change based upon what we think is given and what we hear from other people. And if the sources around us, like that superintendent, are telling you that this is the most dangerous world, that the world is against you, that change is not possible, that humans are, you know, going to be defunct in just a few years, or that only a few rich people can ever be successful in their life, or you have

• 22:18Speaker 02

  to be super tall to be successful, whatever it is, that those beliefs are constraining us, but they're not serving us. And if we can find a way of changing those, even in small ways, it changes the next step we take.

• 22:31Mike Carruthers?

  You know what I wonder is, how contagious are beliefs, not because you tell somebody to believe it, but that, that just a general sense of, we all believe this, actually helps people believe that.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  You know, all throughout human history, if I smile at someone, and there's really only two options, they either smile back at me, they don't smile back at me. And then that's the end of the story if that's a stranger. For all of human history, I have no idea if I have improved that person's business outcomes, or their life, or they're treating their kids better. But now we have big data, and now we have neuroscience. And what we've been able to find is those small little behaviors you're doing, like smiling, waving at people, it turns out with big data, we can track, we found that if I smile at you, and we are doing a brain scan of you, your brain shows the same activation patterns as if you're smiling, even if you don't emote the smile. So if someone doesn't smile back, it turns

• 23:31Speaker 02

  out their brain patterns, the mirroring parts of their brains activate, and their brain is basically smiling, it's like, what's the problem here, face? So you've been able to change someone's neurochemical patterns, and their brainwave patterns, in a one second period of time. And when people learn this, about the science and the research that's out there, about how powerfully we're impacting other people, it becomes not about, my beliefs just lead to good outcomes for me, it becomes, our beliefs collectively shape what happens next. And we were, I was looking, I found this, the statistic from Gallup, that I was stunned at, that said that 32% of Americans believe that we're in the end times right

• 24:14Speaker 02

  now. The people across the political aisle, and religious or not religious, 32%, one out of three Americans, believe we're in a rapid descent into entropy or towards Armageddon. If you believe that, that changes what happens next within our world. It changes the decisions we make. It changes our hope. It changes how much we're going to smile and wave at other people. And in the midst of that, if we hold those beliefs, it leads us into a negative direction. But if we hold the beliefs that our behavior matters collectively and that we are not alone, and that when I do something like wave and smile, it actually could create a ripple effect that I never even see two, three, four degrees separate, then some people are more likely

• 24:58Speaker 02

  to make those belief changes and then those habit changes.

• 25:02Mike Carruthers?

  Well, this conversation, I don't know about other people, but it's made me think about what my beliefs are and where they came from and why I believe what I believe. It's a really interesting topic. I've been talking to Sean Acor. He is one of the world's leading experts on the connection between mindset, happiness, and success. He has a TED Talk that's been viewed more than 25 million times. And he is author of a book called The Power of Beliefs. There's a link to his book and to his TED Talk in the show notes. Great, Sean, thanks so much.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, Mike. It's been a pleasure.

• 25:40Speaker 00

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• 26:10Speaker 05

  Pink Pantheress here. Coach and Spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together, and they want you to be part of it. Grab your friends and head to the Tabby Tour, hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists, exclusive experiences, and personalized products. And discover custom playlists on Spotify, booked just for you based on who you are and how you listen. Live your story with Coach. Learn more at coach.com.

• 26:40Mike Carruthers?

  When you think about doing things to help the environment, you probably think about doing things less. Drive less, fly less, turn down the thermostat. Don't do this, consume less of that. Saving the planet often sounds like a long list of sacrifices. But what if that's the wrong approach? What if some of the best things you can do for the environment also make you happier? What if protecting the future isn't about deprivation at all, but about making better choices that improve your life right now? That's the intriguing argument of psychologist Elizabeth Dunn. Her research has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, and many other media outlets.

• 27:25Mike Carruthers?

  Her TED Talk was selected as one of the top 10 TED Talks of the year. She is co-author of the book, Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Hi there, thanks so much for having me.

• 27:41Mike Carruthers?

  So I think when people think about what they can do to help the environment, to save the planet, the problem is overconsumption. So the obvious solution is to consume less, to do less. And that is the way that you can make a difference in helping the environment and fighting climate change.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  We really want to change the way people think about climate change. So there's so much shame and guilt and anxiety and fear hovering around the topic of climate change, and for good reason. I mean, climate change is scary, but we think that climate change is also an opportunity to think differently about our lives and to find ways to live in happier, brighter ways.

• 28:32Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, well, there is this idea that when you think about what you can do, it's all about sacrifice and denial, and you can't do that, and you know, we don't do that anymore. And it's kind of depressing.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a lot of less, less, less, right? Eat less meat, drive less, shower less. And actually, we think there's an opportunity to live... Fuller lives, happier lives, and tackle climate change at the same time.

• 29:01Mike Carruthers?

  And I think there's a lot of the what can I personally do feeling that, you know, if I drive a little less, if I fly a little less, it's not going to make any difference.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's easy to feel as individuals that anything we do is such a drop in the bucket that it doesn't matter. And the truth is that we as individuals actually have a lot of opportunities to make a difference. So we tend to look to governments and companies as the ones, you know, bearing the responsibility to make change. And that's true. Governments and companies have a lot of responsibility. But actually, we as individuals have more power than we think to change the way those larger systems work and to change our own behavior.

• 29:48Mike Carruthers?

  Do you agree that in an attempt to draw attention to climate change and the environment, that there's been a bit of an overreach that people have been saying, you know, that, you know, kind of the sky is falling, that, you know, humanity is going to end, and that people, since it hasn't happened, we're still here, that people have been turned off a bit by that?

• 30:11Speaker 03

  I mean, I think to draw attention to this issue, climate activists, for good reason, were kind of yelling fire, right? And that can be good for mobilizing quick action. But if you just keep yelling fire, it gets pretty exhausting over time. And so we think that a more sustainable approach to encouraging pro-environmental action lies in helping people see how they can live more joyful lives by living more sustainably.

• 30:37Mike Carruthers?

  By doing things like what?

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Well, for one thing, thinking about replacing some of our high-carbon foods like steak and lamb with lower-carbon alternatives. And that doesn't mean you have to go vegan. So in fact, just eating chicken rather than beef makes a huge difference in terms of your climate impact. And my research suggests that having foods we enjoy a little less often can actually enhance our capacity to enjoy them.

• 31:09Mike Carruthers?

  Explain that. Explain the research there.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  So in one study we conducted, we brought people into our lab and asked them to eat some chocolate. And chocolate is actually a surprisingly high-carbon food. And then we asked one group of students to refrain from eating chocolate for one whole week. Meanwhile, we gave other students a big bag of chocolate and asked them to eat as much as they comfortably could over the ensuing week. And then a third group got no special chocolate-related instructions. Then we brought everyone back into the lab a week later and asked them to eat some chocolate again. And each time they ate chocolate in our lab, we measured how much they savored it and seemed to enjoy it. And what we discovered was that people who had been asked to give

• 31:54Speaker 03

  up chocolate for one week savored it more than those in the other two groups. So this suggests then that if you can kind of identify those high-carbon foods that you enjoy, and don't give them up completely. I mean, I'm a happiness researcher. I want people to enjoy life. But we have those foods a little bit less often. We kind of turn them back into treats. And that can help us get more pleasure from these high-carbon foods.

• 32:18Mike Carruthers?

  So what makes a food a high-carbon food?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's all of the production that goes into the food. I mean, the ultimate sort of like bad boys of the meat world are definitely beef and lamb. And they are high-carbon impact. You know, anything involving cows, you're basically talking a lot of carbon. And kind of a simple dichotomy is that in general, plant-based foods tend to be pretty low in carbon. But there are some exceptions, such as chocolate, because of the way that it's made, it does tend to be pretty high in carbon.

• 32:51Mike Carruthers?

  Like, like compared to beef, how high is it?

• 32:54Speaker 03

  The analogy that we provide is that a large dark chocolate bar is similar to a lamb chop in terms of its carbon impact. Again, though, I want to be clear, I love chocolate. I love happiness. I think people should enjoy chocolate. I think people should enjoy beef and lamb if they love these foods. But just recognize that those are higher-carbon treats and really think about getting the most enjoyment out of them by not just sort of shoveling them down every day, but kind of making them treats and having lower-carbon foods like chicken and fruits and vegetables on a more kind of daily basis.

• 33:31Mike Carruthers?

  So the title of your book, Leave the Lights On, brings up something interesting that there are probably other things that people do that they think is doing something like turning the lights off that probably isn't doing much at all. So what about that?

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, some little things don't make a big difference. So, you know, leaving the lights on, for example, is something that, you know, it just doesn't matter that much. And this became an issue for me because my boyfriend, when I first moved to Vancouver, was, you know, really cared about environmental issues, which I totally respected. But if I would leave the lights on, you know, leave the room without turning out the lights, he would kind of shoot me this withering look that said, like, why do you hate the earth, you know? And that didn't make me feel very good. And then I later learned that actually leaving the lights on just doesn't matter, especially because I live in a, in a place, Vancouver, Canada, that has clean energy. So my co-author, Zhang Xiao,

• 34:30Speaker 03

  JZ, who everyone calls the human carbon calculator, she actually calculated for me that if I were to leave the lights on in my two-bedroom condo for the rest of my life, it would be equivalent in terms of carbon to eating 13 hamburgers.

• 34:45Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that's not so bad.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Right. So I think, you know, again, we want to realize where we're maybe like obsessing or nagging other people about behaviors that don't really matter, and then identify the behaviors that, you know, do matter. So sometimes there are little things that we can do in our daily lives that actually make a real difference. Biking a couple of days a week instead of driving to work, or carpooling with others, these can actually have a bigger impact than I think many people realize. So it's about figuring out where our actions are, make a difference and where they don't. And we can think about making some bigger changes in our lives, too. And that's an area where I think, you know, it's tempting to just focus on the little tiny things, but there's a lot of opportunities

• 35:32Speaker 03

  to make larger changes in our lives where we can really have a big impact.

• 35:36Mike Carruthers?

  And those would include things like?

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Well, for one thing, something that we don't hear a lot about, but that really matters, is where you choose to live. So, the typical American moves about a dozen times in their in their life. So, people do move around, and it turns out where you move can have a massive impact. For example, if you were to run an air conditioner for a week in a typical living room in Vermont, you would emit eight pounds of carbon, so like the weight of a newborn baby. In contrast, you run that exact same air conditioner in the same kind of living room in Wyoming, you're gonna emit a thousand pounds of carbon, so

• 36:19Speaker 03

  like the weight of a full grown horse. So, these choices about where to live actually just have giant ripple effects for our carbon emissions. And that's because areas with clean energy give us an opportunity to enjoy our lives, you know, have the air conditioner on, be a comfortable temperature, without actually emitting a lot of carbon.

• 36:40Mike Carruthers?

  But realistically, if you're going, if you're thinking about moving, that is not gonna be very high on your list of where you're gonna move. It's gonna be because of your job, or because you have to meet closer to your grandmother, or something. No one's gonna, now, we can't move there because of the emissions we might create. And I don't think anybody thinks that way.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  Well, I think there are moments in people's lives where they are making these kinds of decisions where we think people have an opportunity to take these issues into consideration. So, I agree with you that people are currently are not, it's not even on people's radar at all. But, you know, I know a lot of young people, as a professor, I get to spend a lot of time with younger folks who are, you know, thinking about whether to have children, for example. And many of them are reluctant to have kids because they think, oh, you know, having kids has such a negative impact on the planet in terms of climate change. And actually, what I say to them is, you know what, if you wanna have kids, if having kids is important to you, you know, and people often think about moving

• 37:47Speaker 03

  to start a family, and traditionally, people are You know, thinking about maybe moving out to the suburbs. But interestingly, moving into the center of the city can actually be a great way to have a family with a lower carbon impact. And again, that's maybe an opportunity to think about where you could have a really good experience raising a family in an area with clean energy. So if something I agree with you, it's not something people are thinking about right now. But we think there's an opportunity for people who care about climate change to make make these decisions, you know, taking this into account.

• 38:18Mike Carruthers?

  Do you have a sense, has there been any research? Because you just used the phrase people who care about climate change. And I'm I'm sure that's a spectrum. But how many people really care in in the sense that they make daily decisions or life decisions? And that's a factor in that decision?

• 38:40Speaker 03

  You know, it's surprising to me, actually, how many people really do care about climate change. I think we we have this notion, there's actually research showing that people underestimate how much those around them actually do care about climate change. And I think this is particularly salient for young people. They've grown up with this issue. And, you know, a really shocking stat to me was that seventy five percent of young people say that they're frightened about the future because of climate change. And I think sometimes this manifests as just sort of, you know, a sense of doom and anxiety. But we would love to transform that into people realizing that actually they have an opportunity to make decisions

• 39:24Speaker 03

  that can have a real positive impact.

• 39:27Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I think that's a big part of it is that the messaging for a long time has been so doom and gloom that like, really, if you really cared about the planet, you'd kill yourself. Because then, you know, then you won't be emitting carbon and that would be a good thing. I mean, it almost gets to that extreme of, you know, you're the problem. That you, as a human being, living on this planet are a problem. I think people get real tired of hearing that.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  I think that's exactly right. And, you know, we are not worried actually about the planet, per se, like this rock we're all sitting on is going to be just fine. It's the species, our own species and other species that we should be worrying about. So, you know, killing ourselves or deciding not to have children, that is not the way forward. The way forward is to figure out how we can live full joyful lives in a way that's actually sustainable. And I think we really have wonderful opportunities to do that.

• 40:25Mike Carruthers?

  And what are some of the other ways to do that? You mentioned that people could think about where they live, but what else?

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Well, one thing is to think about how we use our money. And, you know, when discussions about money and sustainability come up, often people focus on these really tiny decisions like, you know, using a metal straw or, you know, bringing your own shopping bags to the store. And if people want to do those things, that's fine. But they really don't have much of an impact. In fact, you know, if you use a reusable cotton bag, you have to use it about 200 times just to break even with plastic bags. So some of these little trade outs that we are accustomed to thinking about don't matter that much.

• 41:13Mike Carruthers?

  You know, there is this sense, though, that if you don't do everything you possibly can, you're not doing enough. And I'm just not sure most people are at that point. They'll do what they can, as long as it doesn't put them out too much. They'll do what they can. They'll be responsible. But that's about it.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  I think sometimes what we see is these listicles of like, oh, you should do these five things in order to, you know, tackle climate change. And we think that's the wrong approach. We think it really, there isn't like a one size fits all solution here. It really has to fit with your own personal values and your own lifestyle. So I'm curious if there's an area for you that sort of resonates and that's more appealing.

• 41:58Mike Carruthers?

  Well, what's important to me are things like food waste and the Quality of the air that people breathe and the water they drink.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Well, and I think that's a great point. Actually, that really ties in with happiness research. So it turns out people tend to be less happy in regions where there's a lot of air pollution. And there's even some specific contaminants and pollutants that seem to be especially potent in dragging down happiness. So it's a great idea to think about prioritizing clean air. And that's one where, you know, donating to charities that make a difference in terms of clean air, talking to your representatives, or just choosing to live, like, again, to the extent that you were, would use this maybe in your own decision making. So maybe you're not going to look into whether an area has clean energy, but you might look into whether an area has clean air.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  You might not want to move to someplace that has smoggy air. And when you choose to live in places that are prioritizing clean air, you are voting with your feet and you're saying to leaders and politicians, this issue matters to me.

• 43:04Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, well, see, I like that. I like that, that people are telling politicians what they want. I much prefer that than politicians telling me what I have to do.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  Right. People do not like being told what to do. They don't like being forced into a corner. And they don't like being made to feel guilty or ashamed of their own choices. And so I think the climate movement has gone a little awry in sort of emphasizing that approach. And I think there's a much more joyful approach available here to say, hey, what matters to you? What would make your life better? You know, living in a place with really clean air and water might make your life better. Let's focus on that.

• 43:47Mike Carruthers?

  What are some other things that not the usual that people may not have thought of that could help?

• 43:52Speaker 03

  It's a good time to think about flying and you know, sometimes you may have heard the advice that like, oh, if you care about climate change, you really shouldn't be getting on a flight. Flights are extremely high in terms of carbon emissions. But again, I think that's a little bit oversimplified. And as a happiness researcher, you know, it's important to go have wonderful experiences, see the people we care about. Sometimes we need to fly. But actually, we can make some simple changes that make a real difference. So for one thing, just flying with carry-on baggage only matters. So I was really surprised to learn that flying with a typical checked bag is equivalent to taking an extra six-year-old child on

• 44:33Speaker 03

  the flight with you in terms of carbon emissions. So our luggage really matters. Just taking a carry-on bag instead really cuts down on our carbon emissions. And as somebody who's not a naturally light packer, I have really changed the way I fly. Another good one when it comes to traveling is to think about, you know, could you vacation closer to home? It turns out there's research showing that people often don't visit the tourist attractions that bring other people to their own city or region. In fact, the time when people typically visit those tourist attractions is either when they have out-of-town guests or when

• 45:15Speaker 03

  they themselves are about to move away. So we're often missing out on this inexpensive and really enjoyable source of pleasure right nearby. And of course, that kind of tourist attraction is going to be very low carbon compared to, you know, flying across the country or across the world to see those more distant tourist attractions.

• 45:36Mike Carruthers?

  See, I've never really thought much about flying because whether I get on that plane or not, it's still going. It's gonna go. And so I'm not doing anything by not flying.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's what's so interesting is that people just look at their own individual behavior as not mattering. And it's like, oh, well, it's the airline's decision about what flights to schedule, and those flights are going to happen. But actually, you know, if individuals aren't taking those flights, the flights get canceled, airlines respond to empty seats, right? And so our actions do matter. But again, you're so right. I think you're picking up on such an important point that it's hard to see how our individual actions are mattering. But when people change the choices that they're making, there are ripple effects for the decisions that companies and organizations make.

• 46:26Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I appreciate you sharing your ideas. And I think a lot of what has to happen is people have to actually believe that doing these things really does matter, that it really makes a difference. Then you're going to get a lot more people to buy in on it. I've been talking to Elizabeth Dunn. She is a psychologist and author of the book, Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species. There's a link to her book at Amazon in the show notes. Elizabeth, great. Thanks. Thanks for being here.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 46:56Mike Carruthers?

  Okay.

• 47:01Mike Carruthers?

  You know, the English language is very much alive. Words and phrases are constantly evolving, and some expressions that we use every day would have sounded completely wrong just a few generations ago. Take spitting image. The original phrase was spit and image. It's based on the old belief that God used spit and dust to create Adam in his image. Over time, people misheard it, repeated it, and eventually spitting image became the standard version. Then there's the word contact. For centuries, it was only a noun,

• 47:40Mike Carruthers?

  as in, avoid contact with bees. Using it as a verb, such as contact me later, didn't become common until the early 20th century. But today, nobody thinks twice about it. Then there's butt naked. The original phrase was buck, B-U-C-K, buck naked, referring to the bare skin of a buck or male deer. But butt naked sounded more logical to people, and it just gradually took over. And if you've ever said that you felt nauseous, language purists might say you're wrong. Traditionally, nauseous meant something that causes nausea, while someone feeling sick was nauseated.

• 48:23Mike Carruthers?

  But common usage has largely erased the distinction. The lesson is that English doesn't stand still. What starts as a mistake, a shortcut, or a misunderstanding can eventually become the correct way to say it. And that is something you should know. You know, I bet if you think about it, you know somebody, probably more than one person, who would enjoy this podcast. And all you have to do is let them know about it, share it with them, send them a link, or just tell them about it and get them to listen. We'd appreciate it, and I think they would too. I'm Micah Rutherford. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

• 49:06Speaker 05

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• 49:34Speaker 06

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