A New Year's Repost! Zohran Mamdani (NYC's Brand New Mayor) Pops In

To celebrate the New Year (and Mayor Mamdani's inauguration), we're reposting this incredible conversation from December. Zohran Mamdani stops by to break down how he actually plans to fix New York City, from housing to transit to the cost of just existing. Somewhere along the way, our friend Dave fully becomes the unhinged NYC resident everyone knows…enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

• 0:10Trevor Noah?

  This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Eat well for less. Earth can be a lot sometimes. Heat waves, gas prices, bad hair days. Why not go where life is good? Escape to Pluto TV. Turn off your problems and turn on your favorite movies and shows. You know, the ones you already love. From Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy, to Dirty Dancing, to Top Gun Maverick. From Alias to The X-Files. It's all here and all free. Go where the TV is always good. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating?

• 0:55Trevor Noah?

  Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini Intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info on travel days or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses. Yeah, booked forever, forever.

• 1:38Trevor Noah?

  This episode is brought to you by Verizon.

• 1:42Trevor Noah?

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• 2:27Trevor Noah?

  all-inclusive music festivals, and the chance to meet your favorite stars. Plus, daily drops, tickets, and pre-sale access all week. So, let's recap. Cash back in your pocket every month with Verizon Dollars, and epic experiences from Verizon Shine every Monday, all year round. Now, those are some rewarding rewards. Only from Verizon. Enroll today at Verizon.com.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  How you doing?

• 2:55Trevor Noah?

  Good to see you. Congratulations, by the way.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 2:58Trevor Noah?

  What did he win?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Very much.

• 2:59Trevor Noah?

  Huh? He won an all-expenses-paid trip

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Almost a Premier League.

• 3:02Trevor Noah?

  To the Upper East Side! All-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side! Call a number! What number, Mayor, are you, by the way?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  They're saying it's 112.

• 3:12Trevor Noah?

  No ways. Peaches and cream?

• 3:16Trevor Noah?

  What? They should sing at your inauguration.

• 3:22Trevor Noah?

  You know what's stuck in my head?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  What?

• 3:23Trevor Noah?

  Kanda. Kanda. Kanda.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  I know, you admit it?

• 3:28Trevor Noah?

  Kanda. Yes, Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  We made Sound City top 10.

• 3:34Trevor Noah?

  That was me the whole...

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Songs of the week.

• 3:36Trevor Noah?

  You don't even understand the whole...

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Top 10!

• 3:39Trevor Noah?

  Who's that other guy?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Hab.

• 3:41Trevor Noah?

  You aged... Hab, yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I grew up with him.

• 3:42Trevor Noah?

  Where is he?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  He's in Kampala.

• 3:44Trevor Noah?

  Has he reached out to you?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I'm in touch with him. He's a close friend.

• 3:48Trevor Noah?

  When you won, did H U D say, "You did it"? We were like, is it H A B or is it Hab?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  H A B.

• 3:55Trevor Noah?

  It is H A B, right? So it's H A B.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Hab, Hab, sorry. I thought you were asking me this.

• 3:58Trevor Noah?

  No, I didn't know if it's...

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, Hab.

• 4:00Trevor Noah?

  We were like, because it was all in caps. Then we were like, is this... Is it Hab or is it H A B? Did Hab text you and go, "How did you convince them"?

• 4:10Trevor Noah?

  Because I'm sure Hab remembers rolling with you, trying to go to a radio station in Kampala, trying to get your song played. Then he was like, "You couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala"?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  How did you do this?

• 4:19Trevor Noah?

  The whole of New York, how?

• 4:22Speaker 01

  You know the reason his name is Hab?

• 4:23Trevor Noah?

  Tell me.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  If we're off the record or off camera?

• 4:27Trevor Noah?

  Nothing is off there. Nothing's off the record.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:29Trevor Noah?

  Don't say anything. When the red light is on, it's like... Nothing is... Let me tell you the first thing, can I tell you, I'll give you a tip.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Give it to me.

• 4:37Trevor Noah?

  That I learned like very early on with the Daily Show and everything. Nothing is off the record. No, no, no. When you, if you, when you walk out the room, let me explain, let me explain, let me explain. When you walk out, this has always fascinated me in America, is when I'll see people, like some footage will come out from twenty years ago or something. And it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Sorry, sorry.

• 4:59Trevor Noah?

  Not Kandam, man.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  The, the, remember the, the ninjas who were dancing?

• 5:04Trevor Noah?

  There was another video though.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  For what I know.

• 5:06Trevor Noah?

  Yes, yes, that was that one.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  So, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja.

• 5:12Trevor Noah?

  You're lying.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  For that video.

• 5:14Trevor Noah?

  Nah.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  And the director of the video taped over that part.

• 5:18Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  No, man.

• 5:21Trevor Noah?

  That male ninja stole the show though. Yeah, there was one, there was one ninja in one of the.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Too much swag for a ninja. I was like, this one, this ninja's black. This is a black ninja.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Oh man.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, tell me about this thing about America, cause I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

• 5:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, so what I'm saying is like, I was always intrigued by how people would trust, just like a handshake agreement everywhere. People like, oh, this is off the record, but there's a camera rolling and the sound recording. And we're like, this is off the record. And then ten years later, or five years, or even a day later, the clip comes out. And then people are like, but, but that was behind the scenes. You're like, yes, there's a camera. When you're wearing a microphone, when there's a microphone, when there's a camera, it's somewhere.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Cause the editor was like, I'm not part of your agreement.

• 6:04Trevor Noah?

  It's somewhere. Remember, grab them by the pussy.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  I wasn't there, but.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Why are you saying, do I remember? Zohran, please, man.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  I'm leaving this between you guys.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  The way he said, do you remember?

• 6:16Trevor Noah?

  You're right, actually. I shouldn't have done. It made it seem like.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  I accept your apology.

• 6:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I apologize. But my point is, that was all off camera?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  You know who also owes?

• 6:24Trevor Noah?

  That was all off camera.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Who? The editor that edited Zohran's dad out of the Kandam.

• 6:29Trevor Noah?

  I still can't believe he recorded.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  But that's how you.

• 6:33Trevor Noah?

  Yes. Oh, by the way, this is a, this is a special, like, this is, I was like, how do, how do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zohran Mamdani on the podcast. But I was like, how many, you know how many tie-ins we have in our lives, right? So, born in Africa, born in Africa, then, uh, Ugandan, right? Born in Uganda. Then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head, I thought to myself, I was like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Say it anyway.

• 7:05Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, but I, no, no, I'm saying I wasn't gonna say it. This is off the record.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Just taking us through the.

• 7:10Trevor Noah?

  This is off the record. I'm letting you know what was in my head. This is off the record. So you can't use it against me. So then I was like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say it like that. So you gotta be like, I mean, I have a lot of you, I don't know how this happened. I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life, like a lot of Ugandan friends.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  You say it like it's a.

• 7:25Trevor Noah?

  Like a what? No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem, Zohran. Don't put that on me.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  See how it feels like.

• 7:31Trevor Noah?

  Don't put that on me.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  When someone puts you in a scene.

• 7:32Trevor Noah?

  You owe me an apology. I'll take my apology now.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Which camera?

• 7:36Trevor Noah?

  Not to me. This is not about them.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  The deposition one.

• 7:39Trevor Noah?

  This is straight to me. Straight to me. I'll take my apologies, Zohran.

• 7:45Trevor Noah?

  Thank you. Thank you very much. So then I was like, I'm just gonna bring them all in. So I was like, my, my best friend, who's Indian, my other best friend, who's Ugandan and South African. They've even got microphones. They can just throw things in. Where, where in Uganda, by the way?

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Kampala. This was born.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Where were you born in Kampala?

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Magare.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Okay. Nsambia Hospital.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Why move to South Africa? Like you.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  I can hear, yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. And to New York, like you.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  You guys hated that place, no?

• 8:17Trevor Noah?

  Which place? South Africa or Uganda?

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Two places before you were like, uh-uh.

• 8:23Trevor Noah?

  It actually is a crazy story, think about it.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:25Trevor Noah?

  You guys both came from Uganda.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  I mean, you're not helpful to me because my parents are like, I mean, look at Zohran.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, man.

• 8:36Trevor Noah?

  He's raised the ceiling for what's possible. They thought you had achieved. And now they're like, wait, you could have done this. This is what you could have done.

• 8:46Trevor Noah?

  How many people are shocked? Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day, like, there's got to be a section of people in your life who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably the most important cities in the world. H A B.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Oh, H A B?

• 9:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, hub, not hub. Different hub. Hab, think of hab. No, but there must be like, genuinely, just on like a personal level, there must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zohran.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:17Trevor Noah?

  And then now you are Zohran Mamdani, the next mayor of New York City.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's true, not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play in a rec soccer team with. And I was just reading this article today about,

• 9:35Speaker 01

  about a lot of their reactions and reflections.

• 9:38Trevor Noah?

  Do you still play with them?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  I haven't in a while.

• 9:40Trevor Noah?

  Why not? I saw you still have the skills, by the way. I was very impressed.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Highly edited.

• 9:44Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, you can't edit those skills. No, no, no, you're lying. No, you can't edit those skills. You, you, like, you play, what position did you play?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays at left back. That's, that's where I am.

• 9:59Trevor Noah?

  I started my journey at left back. You know, you know when people say, you know when people say I fell off to your position?

• 10:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  That's that's me, Trevor. That's me.

• 10:16Trevor Noah?

  I I genuinely love that for you, man. I just like, how much how much has your life changed now? Like, is it? And I don't know if this is just anecdotal, but we were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going, it feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now. Which makes sense, but I don't know if that's just how it looks online. Do you do you feel like a more serious shift in your life?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  I think I don't feel burdened by it. I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. It's you can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity.

• 10:52Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  And I think for me, the idea that it's my job to represent the city that I love and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives. It's amazing. And then there's also there are parts of it that are absurd, you know, like I told my landlord I was moving out. And and she she was, you know, jokingly saying, you know, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I remember, everybody knows.

• 11:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, everyone knows everything about you. Like, this this pre, this is this is your life.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:33Trevor Noah?

  Forevermore, this is this is your life. It'll never be the same after this moment.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  It won't. But I think that's what I love, though, is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now. You know, I think like for my wife and I, we going out at night, like going for a walk at night.

• 11:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  It has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity. Right? And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.

• 12:03Trevor Noah?

  Oh, OK. Do you have a night voice? It would be, I'm Zohran. Yeah?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  You can't still be Zohran with a night voice.

• 12:11Trevor Noah?

  Who? Mr. Cardamom.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Mayor Cardamom.

• 12:16Trevor Noah?

  Mayor Cardamom.

• 12:19Trevor Noah?

  When the when the nights of New York get rough and Zohran can't do it, I'm here. Hey! That's what I'm talking about! Yes! That's it! Don't go anywhere, because we've got more What Now after this. Everybody has that oddly specific thing that they're curious about. Maybe it's restoring old watches. Maybe it's Japanese ceramic making. Maybe it's watching someone explain why one bridge in a remote area of Norway is secretly better than all the other bridges in the world. YouTube always has exactly what you're looking for, even when you didn't know you were looking for it. With YouTube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother.

• 13:00Trevor Noah?

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• 13:45Trevor Noah?

  you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Fall has a way of turning an ordinary night into a reason to gather. Whether it is a football game, a Halloween party, or a dinner on a cold evening. Whole Foods Market makes those moments easier with comfort food, seasonal treats, and quality standards built into every aisle.

• 14:26Trevor Noah?

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• 14:38Trevor Noah?

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• 15:22Trevor Noah?

  Turn off your problems and turn on your favorite movies and shows. You know, the ones you already love. From Anchorman, the legend of Ron Burgundy, to Dirty Dancing, to Top Gun Maverick, from Alias to The X-Files. It's all here and all free. Go where the TV is always good. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 15:50Trevor Noah?

  That's what I'm talking about. All right, so I know we don't have a lot of time with you, so I wanted, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, you're a very busy person now and you know, you're doing all these things. And I was trying to think if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like three, three larger ideas. One was how you see the future of New York City, how you want to build it, how you want to change it, what you want to improve, what you think the challenges will be, etc. It's like the job, job part of it. Uh, the second part of it is the human being. And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, it's either like caricatures of people who hate you or just like pieces about what you want to do. But people sort of don't know you, you.

• 16:35Trevor Noah?

  And I, I think a lot of people would, would like to know who the human being is behind some of these ideas. And then the last part is just like random shit that we'll talk about like, because you're also like a person, you see like now you, you did a joke with us. I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me like a joke. Maybe Obama was the first time where I was like, oh, this person actually knows humor. Do you know what I mean? But you're just like a, like a dude. You're just like a guy.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Just a guy. Yes. At night.

• 17:08Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man. So let's, okay, let's talk about New York.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Wait, hold on. Where are you from?

• 17:13Speaker 02

  South Africa.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Where in South Africa?

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Born in Pretoria.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  But now living in Johannesburg.

• 17:17Trevor Noah?

  Does this count against our time, by the way?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 17:20Trevor Noah?

  You know I love you, Eugene. I just wanna know if this counts against our time.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Wait, wait.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  What did you say?

• 17:26Trevor Noah?

  Does this count against our time?

• 17:26Speaker 02

  No, before that.

• 17:28Trevor Noah?

  You know I love you, Eugene.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  You finally got it. You finally got it.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  How many podcast episodes does this take?

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Fifteen. Thank you.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  You are loved.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  You are seen.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  You are enough.

• 17:53Trevor Noah?

  Is this what it took?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  So.

• 17:55Trevor Noah?

  Is this?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 17:56Trevor Noah?

  Johannesburg, by way of Pretoria, South Africa.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Josie, stand up, come on.

• 18:01Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know this, you know this. So, let's talk about New York and then, and then we'll go, we'll go through your life. Sorry, Eugene, sorry. Cause now they're gonna be like, you've run out of time. And then I'll be like, some of that time was taken by Eugene. Just, you know what we can even do? We can edit you in saying things about your life. We just, when you leave, you, you're just gonna sit here and just be like, and then I, and we'll put that in.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  And we'll call Ryan to double?

• 18:21Trevor Noah?

  And then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zohran's stunt double. And then you must just like, yeah, but anyway, so let's, let's.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  So, New York City.

• 18:30Trevor Noah?

  Actually, run us through the process, right?

• 18:34Trevor Noah?

  Like, what's, what's, what are the orders of business that you, that you're doing right now? Like, let's, let's, let's go from the shortest term and let's build out as, as, as, as your, your job is made. So what are you doing right now?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Right now is the transition period.

• 18:45Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants who are making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's this, it's, it's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election. Everyone knows about January 1st, and then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months, it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry.

• 19:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  We want to get ahead of January first. We want to make the decisions and the appointments in advance of January first. And what this also means is we want to build that team.

• 19:15Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  So so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, you know, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions.

• 19:28Trevor Noah?

  What do you what do you base that on when you when you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate, right? So if you had come through the the regular pipeline of, oh, establishment, establishment, I almost feel like it would have been prepicked for you in a weird way.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  It would have been who you knew.

• 19:44Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because we always see that happen, right? It's like when Hillary Clinton was running, then you'd be like, the person she's gonna pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person. You're like, oh, it's all like the same team. And then you just shift around who's where. You get what I'm saying?

• 19:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:59Trevor Noah?

  Yours is is different, though. So how do you pick and where do you pick?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  I think it's it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating, actually, to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know, not not be like.

• 20:12Trevor Noah?

  Unburdened.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  You're just actually making decisions based on, do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency.

• 20:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  With what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government.

• 20:31Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Right? So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government.

• 20:37Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulgham to be my first deputy mayor, he had served forty seven years in working in government at the city and the state level, is the first time we sat down for Adanichai at Kahawa House, he he told me about how he transformed.

• 20:54Trevor Noah?

  Adanichai like the drink?

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Like the drink.

• 20:55Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Have you ever had Adanichai?

• 20:56Trevor Noah?

  Just making sure. Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  I've had variations of it.

• 21:01Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The closest Indian, the closest.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  I'm right here.

• 21:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  You owe.

• 21:07Trevor Noah?

  He monitors.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  You owe, Zora.

• 21:08Trevor Noah?

  He monitors.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Give me an apology.

• 21:10Trevor Noah?

  You owe. I apologize.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  I accept.

• 21:14Trevor Noah?

  Shap. But yes, I've had chai, yes.

• 21:18Trevor Noah?

  Shap, shap, shap, shap. So, so yeah, so you were sitting down having chai.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the Office of Management and Budget from a culture of no to a culture of how.

• 21:30Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government. Because when you'll say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you want to deliver universal childcare, you want to make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can find who can tell you it's impossible to do that.

• 21:43Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  And the people you're actually looking for are not the ones who tell you it's easy. They're the ones who tell you it's difficult and here's how they're actually going to do it.

• 21:49Trevor Noah?

  So you're interviewing people for the job or you're picking people for the job?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:53Trevor Noah?

  And you're trying to find a balance between the people who've shown that they can do it, but then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who, like you, are new to a position? Because that's, that's the weird paradox, right? You've never been mayor of New York and now you're going to be mayor of New York. So how do you then judge a person who's never done the job? Like, what, what are you looking for in those people where you go, hey, you haven't done this, but I think you can?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Vision. You, you, you're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about. There, there, there's a real temptation, especially when you're looking at a job of this scale and you're looking at, you know, we're talking about positions that oversee agencies of tens of thousands of people. There's a temptation to say, I'm just going to keep the trains running on time.

• 22:34Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  But that's not enough. It's not enough in a city that's the most expensive in the United States of America. It's not enough in a city where one in four people live in poverty. You have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve.

• 22:50Trevor Noah?

  Why do you think, or do you think, because I mean, I do, so I don't want to bias you, but like, it feels like particularly in America, maybe other parts of the world, it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping.

• 23:06Trevor Noah?

  And then liberals or progressives or however people wanna, you know, left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, it, it, it, it, let's just keep it working well and you, you can't really change much, you can't, like, do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched? Where people say, Zohran, now, I agree with your politics, I, I love what you're saying, but I just don't know that we can do it. I just, I just don't think you'll be able to get it done, I just don't, but not once have I seen somebody interviewing like Trump, for instance, on a right wing platform, go like, ah, dog, I don't know about that war. I don't know, man, that's a big ass war, how are you gonna do it? Do you get what I'm saying?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  I, I do, I think it's, it's, you have people, it seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination.

• 23:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever lowering ceiling of possibility. It's, it's right here.

• 23:56Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  You know, and we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice. And neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this. Because this life already is suffocating people.

• 24:15Trevor Noah?

  I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  Hmm, tell us more.

• 24:21Trevor Noah?

  I, I could, I, I'm, look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and you know, you will tell me.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Wait, if there's one thing, I will tell you.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Hello?

• 24:31Trevor Noah?

  Is when I'm wrong.

• 24:31Speaker 03

  Am I allowed to speak?

• 24:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I like that you say that into a microphone, as if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  Am I allowed to speak?

• 24:40Trevor Noah?

  You literally look, you know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those like town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Oh, Ed Chakras is about to make an announcement.

• 24:49Trevor Noah?

  But let me, let me say this point and then, yes, let me say, so, so, so this is the thing.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Before you say this point, though.

• 24:53Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Did you steal this point from me?

• 24:57Trevor Noah?

  There's a distinct possibility.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:59Trevor Noah?

  As friends.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Okay, no, no, continue, continue.

• 25:02Trevor Noah?

  As friends. I mean, I don't know how you are with your friends, but if my friend has a great idea.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  It's mine.

• 25:07Trevor Noah?

  It becomes a part of my thinking.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  This, this point might have come by way of a friendship tapa way.

• 25:14Trevor Noah?

  That's exactly what it is.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  And when it was open, no one was taking responsibility for what's inside.

• 25:18Trevor Noah?

  Preach Eugene, preach. Tell people about these relationship tapas ways.

• 25:23Trevor Noah?

  Instead of focusing on where the tapa way ends up, you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the tapa way.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  And enjoyed it.

• 25:29Trevor Noah?

  And enjoyed it.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  And shared it.

• 25:30Speaker 04

  And he may return it with another meal inside.

• 25:33Trevor Noah?

  That's true, that's true. Many of the ideas that you have came from me.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  And some of that.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Which idea of yours did I, no.

• 25:43Trevor Noah?

  So, the owner of the idea, to me. The owner of the idea is not important. I think good ideas should live beyond people. But if you think about religion and, and how in most parts of the world, religion is declining, but it's declining in areas where people are particularly left-leaning or progressive, or you know what I mean, you see it.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  I don't think religion is declining, I think faith is declining.

• 26:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but the two have been combined for a long time, right?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

• 26:12Trevor Noah?

  And one of the things that like faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you are in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  One hundred percent.

• 26:24Trevor Noah?

  And even though you cannot see it, you believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust.

• 26:40Trevor Noah?

  Really?

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Still have that faith.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  And it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered. And thinking that the rational decision is to take as much space as you can.

• 27:04Trevor Noah?

  How, how do you, how do you find, just real quick, I just want to know like. This is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is. You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because of regulation or kickbacks or, you know, corporations or lobbyists. So so one part of it is because of like a mud and a sludge. And then the other one is because just life is like that. So how how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go? All right, Zohran, this thing you did achieve, so that's one side.

• 27:45Trevor Noah?

  But for the things that you you didn't, like, how would you want people to judge your your failures? Which are inevitable in anything that people do.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  We we built a campaign around three policy commitments.

• 27:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal childcare.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  We have to deliver these things.

• 28:08Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  And

• 28:09Trevor Noah?

  That's non-negotiable.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  To to me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward. And there's no question, there are, this is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying.

• 28:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  They are just admitting defeat from the beginning. You know, they're describing something as unrealistic or impossible.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Madiba said it's always seems impossible until it's done.

• 28:43Trevor Noah?

  Nelson Mandela, for those who don't know.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Can I ask a question?

• 28:46Trevor Noah?

  You're gonna say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well. I know how you work. I know the shit that you're gonna say. He's gonna be like, where did he get that idea? Where did he get that idea? Who was in prison with him? Mister, oh, I'm the only person with ideas. Please, share some with us, Dave.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  Before he says something, I'd like to say it probably wasn't his idea. Because he's been quiet. When you started speaking, he didn't say anything.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  The title was my idea. You know, when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie? The title was my idea, but

• 29:14Trevor Noah?

  Like the one where the, oh, no, no, I'm

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Okay, so now, uh, mayor-elect Mamdani.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Do you know your powers? You know, like, because you run for mayor, but at some point, there's like, you have powers, certain powers. So do you know them all? Do they give you like a book? These are your actual powers?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  They they don't give you a book.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Do you? No, I'm saying, you know what I mean, like?

• 29:39Speaker 01

  No, I I I do. I have I have um definitely an awareness of of what power this job comes with. I'll give you an example on the three policies I was speaking of. The first one, freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants, city of eight and a half million people, about two and a half million live in housing called Rent Stabilized.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Right?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  And what does that mean? Just because I I see people conflate stabilized versus?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Rent rent control is a very small proportion.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Help us understand. What is rent stabilized? What does that mean?

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Rent stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  So we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past. We have seen this board raise the rent like it has under Eric Adams more than 12%. So when I talk about freezing the rent, I'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Okay. So that's, sorry, just to clear that up. So that is like, you know, you know the question, because sometimes when it comes to politics, people will be like, you know, you vote the person in, then later on, it's like, no, technically, I didn't have that power, because, you know, you know, that kind of thing.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  People try to obfuscate what their responsibility is.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  The the the second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany state government, right? The the reason that it was at a core part of my campaign, though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them will require state partnership.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 1970s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre-K. That was done by the previous mayor, who Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it. And he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built.

• 31:51Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do. But all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not, that's not actually my jurisdiction.

• 32:11Trevor Noah?

  Ah, yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  You should call this person, or you should call at that level. Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power. Not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things.

• 32:30Trevor Noah?

  So, okay, great. This is great. Wait, you know, when you, when you say the thing about the, the book of power? It makes me think of like, I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how- Mostly me giving ideas. We talked about how, again, I don't care where good ideas come from. No. You know? Uh, my idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos. But no, but we, we had this conversation about, we, we talked about, we're talking about Trump. And we, literally, we, we joked and we said, it feels like Trump was the first person to read that book. Do you know what I mean? Because there's so many things- Can be done. No, because there's so many things where Trump is doing it and then people are like, can a president do that? And then it's like, oh, yeah, he can. And you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, we didn't know that you could do all of these things. And I think that's sort of what the question is.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, and I think it's, look, we have this transition. We have four incredible co-chairs. One of them is Lina Khan. And Lina Khan-

• 33:21Trevor Noah?

  Can we get Lina Khan on the show, by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings. No, can I tell you, I, we'll have a separate conversation about this. I'll tell you why. I hate- Take away from our time. Yes, but it's, but it'll add time value, it'll add value. No, I'll tell you why. Lina Khan, like you see on a wall of like superheroes. The way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions, and you know this as my friends. Orlando Pirates. I don't think that counts.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  What about the Orlando Pirates?

• 33:52Trevor Noah?

  But thank you for that. Counting things he hates.

• 33:55Trevor Noah?

  What the hell?

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Merger, acquisitions, Kaiser cheese.

• 34:04Trevor Noah?

  Oh man, you broke my bridge like Orlando pirates.

• 34:10Trevor Noah?

  Cortas with no Russian.

• 34:14Trevor Noah?

  Anyway, she's, I'll tell you, she's a hero because I, I think she taps into, and I think that's maybe why you picked a part of it is she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is. And then you go like, why did that happen? Why did that happen? And then she's like, oh, let me show you where it started. Like she's at the origin story of a lot of these things.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  And she spoke about that when she first got to her job, she felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting. Where she got there and it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal.

• 34:44Trevor Noah?

  You see, that's, that's what I'm talking about.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  And I think we, it's, it's, there is a need for imagination for the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward. And also an ambition to use your existing set of tools.

• 34:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  To actually transform people's lives.

• 35:02Trevor Noah?

  Don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this. Everybody has that oddly specific thing that they're curious about. Maybe it's restoring old watches. Maybe it's Japanese ceramic making. Maybe it's watching someone explain why one bridge in a remote area of Norway is secretly better than all the other bridges in the world. YouTube always has exactly what you're looking for, even when you didn't know you were looking for it. With YouTube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother. You get ad-free viewing, but you also get background play when you need your hands free. And you get offline downloads so you can keep watching wherever you happen to be, even if you happen to be off the grid.

• 35:46Trevor Noah?

  It's everything you already love about YouTube, just somehow even better. Yeah, one of my favorite YouTube Premium features is smart downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, ah, I forgot to download anything? And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, download, download, download, download. You're on the plane, download, download, download, download. There's no wifi. I wish I downloaded. Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch. Or just on the internet. Smart downloads, basically things ahead for you. It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, YouTube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear.

• 36:29Trevor Noah?

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• 37:13Trevor Noah?

  The fit is great and it just lays really nicely. And I think that's what you sometimes take for granted with simple clothes. When they're done really well, they become the foundation of an entire outfit. You can throw on a jacket, a sweater, whatever you want, but everything works because you started with the right thing. That's what I like about Quince. It feels premium without feeling like you're trying too hard. It's effortless. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Hello over there.

• 37:55Trevor Noah?

  Oh, and if Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was What Now with Trevor Noah. It's the best way to support the show.

• 38:06Speaker 05

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• 38:40Trevor Noah?

  Do you think?

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Can I just one more question? Just sorry, sorry, really. This is now. He's not sorry. Now, okay, I'm not. He's never sorry. Okay, one more question. Now, just to wrap up the powers thing. Do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud?

• 38:55Speaker 02

  It is something.

• 38:56Trevor Noah?

  Oh, I feel like this is turned. This is literally turned into those. It really has turned into a town hall.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  No, I'm just.

• 39:02Trevor Noah?

  No, your posture, can I tell you? I always look at when I watch town halls and people come up and do this thing. I'm always like, who are these people? I didn't know I'm friends with one of them.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:10Trevor Noah?

  The posture, the everything, just like. Can we all agree that ambulances are too loud?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  Also, speaking of powers.

• 39:18Trevor Noah?

  Yes, exactly.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  Here's my pet issue.

• 39:21Trevor Noah?

  But, but, yes, he's like.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  No, no, we're talking about mergers and acquisitions.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  I like how Dave gave himself citizenship as citizen. Yeah, yeah, Uganda.

• 39:30Trevor Noah?

  Wait, wait, wait, Dave, Dave, wait. No, but actually, I do like this question because I think, you know why? As, I get it. Macro versus micro. I think these are like the nice things to try and understand. I'll, I'll interpret for you, yes.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  So now, one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud.

• 39:45Trevor Noah?

  Way too loud in New York, way too loud. I agree.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  They're too loud.

• 39:48Trevor Noah?

  They're way too loud.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  One ambulance and the entire Manhattan knows that, you know that.

• 39:52Trevor Noah?

  Yes, I agree.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Someone about to lose their life.

• 39:54Trevor Noah?

  No, no, you don't even know. Is that too much of a inconvenience for you? No, Eugene, Eugene, Eugene. No, let me explain, let me explain. Eugene, wait, let me explain, let me explain. I, this is what Dave means really. You don't even know where it's coming from. It's pointless at some point.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  It knows where it's going. That's the most important part.

• 40:08Trevor Noah?

  But nobody knows where it's coming. But anyway, finish asking it.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Cool. So now, would you say that, that in some way or form, the citizens of New York, both documented and documented? I'm not even joking because you're trying to expose me. But I'm, uh.

• 40:23Trevor Noah?

  Trying.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  But now, would you say that it is, that you pledge to have a, like, some sort of database? Not database, but link so that we can see what's inside the ambulance?

• 40:35Trevor Noah?

  This is Castapo, yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Oh, because, because. I never, I never knew where the next sentence was going.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Oh, where the next sentence was going.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Welcome to Dave.

• 40:46Trevor Noah?

  Welcome to Dave.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:47Trevor Noah?

  You just summed up Dave. If there was a review of Dave.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  So if it's too loud, you wanna know what's happening inside?

• 40:52Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you? No, can I tell you?

• 40:54Speaker 04

  I think what he wants to know is, is it justified being loud?

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:00Speaker 04

  Has the person stubbed their toe?

• 41:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  Or is this person in cardiac arrest?

• 41:03Trevor Noah?

  No, but more importantly, are you asking?

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Oh, you decrease the volume. Do you know what I mean? If, not everybody is having an emergency the way these ambulances tell us. That's not possible.

• 41:13Trevor Noah?

  Do you regret being mayor yet?

• 41:19Speaker 03

  I'm saying.

• 41:20Trevor Noah?

  This is your life. You know this is your life, right?

• 41:22Speaker 03

  In your book of powers. This is my life anyway.

• 41:25Trevor Noah?

  You're gonna be having dinner. You're gonna be having dinner and this guy's coming up.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  I know too many guys like this anyway. Now I'm the mayor, I still know this guy. Because you have these, you have these, these big ideas, that's what I'm saying. In your book, I'm sure you can say that and most people will, will agree. Most people will, no, no, no, cuz we all agree, at some point we're gonna need ambulance.

• 41:47Trevor Noah?

  Small, small injury, small, small siren.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Small siren, big injury, big siren.

• 41:51Trevor Noah?

  Can, no, now, on, on a reel though, can you, like, are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally? Or do you need to, like, is there a board, is there?

• 41:59Speaker 03

  On, on this question?

• 42:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I mean it, I mean, I know it sounds crazy. Okay, okay. What about, what about?

• 42:05Speaker 03

  So you don't know what's in the book?

• 42:09Speaker 03

  I am not gonna sit here. So you don't know what's in the book? That I even know the process by which you would consider trading volume for an ambulance. Severity of injury. No, you don't know what's in the book, that's the thing.

• 42:25Trevor Noah?

  Thank you, sir, thank you, sir.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  It could be in the book.

• 42:28Trevor Noah?

  Thank you for your time, sir, thank you. Thank, as you can see, so Dave definitely lives in New York and experiences. This, this is actually what I, what I love about it, is like, as you, as you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things. How do you find, so you have these three big policies that you've run on. You've gone rent, we are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately, and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses. They need to be faster, they need to be free. And the third thing you're working on is the?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Childcare.

• 42:56Trevor Noah?

  Childcare.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  And then number four is Dave.

• 42:58Trevor Noah?

  Number four is Dave, right. So, I mean, you've made it.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  You've made it.

• 43:02Trevor Noah?

  You've made it. You've made it.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  At this point?

• 43:04Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  It's the only way out.

• 43:05Trevor Noah?

  So my, my question is? When you're in that, is there a system for you as mayor to go, "These things are small but annoying and they actually make a difference in people's lives"? Like the sound of sirens, or for instance, or... How do you find those balances?

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I think this is... It's not just that government has often said, "A crisis is too big, we cannot tackle it." It's also that government has said, "This issue is too small, it's not worth our time." And as much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something, or the noise of something, or... These, to New Yorkers, are examples of a city that's not working for them.

• 43:45Trevor Noah?

  Yes, it is, actually.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously. Because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. You know, I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member, and his name is Ty, at Rochdale Village in southeast Queens. And an older woman got up and she had a question for me. She said, "Will you honor a promise that was made to be multiple mayoral administrations ago?" And I was like, "What is this promise going to be?"

• 44:26Speaker 01

  And she said, "They promised to put a speed bump at this corner, and it hadn't been done for more than a decade." And I was thinking to myself, "How could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal childcare if the same government couldn't even get her a speed bump?"

• 44:44Trevor Noah?

  That they had promised.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  That they had promised more than a decade ago. Because when you betray that promise, you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs. And they start to turn away. And then when you ask ourselves, "Why aren't more people voting? Why aren't more people invested? Why aren't more people engaged?" A lot of it is based on experiences like this, where the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance. And we have to win people back through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested. In the politics of their own city, you have to prove it to them. You have to prove that you were right to believe. And here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I could prove it to you, Dave, but.

• 45:28Trevor Noah?

  Can I say, can I say, although I joined the mob in laughing at you. I will say, though, this is an issue that I fully stand.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Which part of the issue?

• 45:36Trevor Noah?

  The, the, no, no, the, the.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Transpired ambulances or silent.

• 45:39Trevor Noah?

  I'll tell you why, no, I'll tell you why.

• 45:42Trevor Noah?

  It's, it's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you. And this idea has always been, this idea has always been. There's a, there's a disconnect in politics. And in the management of cities, countries, states, et cetera, where. There are the things that will dramatically change your life. That are actual things that you need to happen. And then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually. And it's a strange thing that people have in society, you know what I mean? Some things can make people feel safer. Some things actually make you safer. Some things can make you feel like a city's functioning. Some things actually make it function. And it's, it's, I'm always.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Perception and reality.

• 46:21Trevor Noah?

  The, the, I'm always intrigued. Around like how a politician manages that. When you get into that position, how do you manage that perception? So sirens is a good one. When you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens, it seems like something's always going wrong. Recently, when I traveled to London, Amsterdam, all these, I was, I was shocked at how quiet it was. But it took me a while to realize something was like missing. And then you're like, wait, it's quiet. And the, the quiet just makes you feel like.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Where's Dave?

• 46:53Trevor Noah?

  Man, can I tell you something? Can I tell you something?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Your timing is impeccable.

• 46:57Trevor Noah?

  This Uganda on Uganda violence. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. All I'm, all I'm waiting for Zohran to turn and do is look at you and be like, why are you Dave?

• 47:10Trevor Noah?

  Why are you Dave? Are you?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Not Dave.

• 47:14Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so help me, help me understand why you chose the three. The, the freezing the rent, that, I mean, I hope is self-explanatory to everybody. The cost of living is, it's unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world. If people cannot afford to live, then they, they don't even want to be part of that society. The buses, he- help me understand why, why faster buses and free buses.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  So these are the slowest buses in America.

• 47:40Trevor Noah?

  Okay. That's not, like, what do you mean by that? Like, the speed that they go?

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Right, we're talking about an average speed.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  In certain parts of Manhattan, around five miles an hour.

• 47:51Trevor Noah?

  That's like, that's walking fast.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  You can, you can beat the bus when you walk.

• 47:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  And what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus.

• 48:00Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  It costs two dollars and ninety cents. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers.

• 48:06Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief, where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  We did this at the state legislature, I've, I've been a state assembly member for a few years.

• 48:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  And I worked with, uh, Mike Giannaris, a state senator, we made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes free after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by thirty eight point nine percent.

• 48:37Trevor Noah?

  On the bus drivers?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  On the bus drivers, because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus.

• 48:44Trevor Noah?

  It's, it's their job, yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  And, and bus drivers and, and unions have shared anecdotally that about fifty percent of assaults happen around the fare box. So when you eliminate the fare box, you make for a safer experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus.

• 49:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  And what's fascinating, back to the point you were just making about perception and reality, is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston, under Mayor Wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided is that people felt safer to even higher degree than that, right? We saw this as well in Kansas City, to varying extents in, in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. More than ten percent of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private.

• 49:37Trevor Noah?

  So it becomes economically viable for them?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And and I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board. You don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their MetroCard or used to be looking for their coins. You can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop. In Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets. The city can speed up a bus through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build.

• 50:10Trevor Noah?

  Got it.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Bus lanes, busways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour.

• 50:17Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around the city. Right now, so often, New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option. We want it to be such that it is the option you choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers.

• 50:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year. Right? We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it's a political choice.

• 50:49Trevor Noah?

  It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen into the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  I mean, I think about.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  I think about when you fly.

• 51:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  We have made it such a difficult experience to go through TSA that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program.

• 51:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  That can move you through it quicker.

• 51:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction

• 51:25Speaker 01

  of flying.

• 51:26Trevor Noah?

  Do you think that's by design, though?

• 51:29Speaker 01

  I'm gonna leave that to you and Dave, man.

• 51:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, convenience is up for sale. Absolutely. Convenience has been up for sale for a long time.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  But it's absurd to me that that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting. You were already paid.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  This is anyway.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  This is a, this is a real question about.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  I thought you said no more questions.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  No, no. Oh, on that topic.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Oh, on that topic.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  There's a real, real question on the buses. How come you didn't go with, um, like, the people who were paying can, who, you know, cause some people not don't mind paying, but they're like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in. And then people who can't pay.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  This is a good question.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Can't pay, then they have a way of like.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  So this, this is in effect, a question about universal approach versus means tested.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fair Fares, where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The MTA, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about forty percent of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked them, what would success look like? They said fifty percent. So success looks like leaving fifty percent of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it,

• 53:05Speaker 01

  because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using. Versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is the difference is that the safety of that bus, the efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making twenty eight thousand dollars a year or less. They're already eligible for fare fares. But less than twenty percent of them were enrolled in that program.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  So that to me is, if you are serious about reaching everyone.

• 53:53Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Then here's how you do it.

• 53:55Trevor Noah?

  You know what it's similar to, funny enough? It's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America. Right? They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote. But basing it like the premise is, no, no, no, it's super easy to vote. All you have to do is. All you have to do is, all you have to do is, all you have to do is, all you have to, you know what I mean? It's like, get this ID, oh, but this new type of ID needs this type of identification. And then it's like, well, which ones do you accept? Oh, your gun one, oh, we take the gun one, NRA will work. Oh, but this one doesn't work and this one, do you know what I mean?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  It should be five minutes.

• 54:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, and more importantly, it's the trick of saying it's free. You're free to enter. But then the process of coming in is not really free. Do you know what I mean?

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:45Trevor Noah?

  It's like the trick of the interns, like to be an intern, you've got to be a pretty rich kid. I work for free. Yeah, but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free? And I feel like that's what you're tapping into with the childcare thing. Is that a similar, no, wait, wait, wait, similar principle is like with the childcare thing, what do you think?

• 55:04Trevor Noah?

  I mean, it seems obvious, some people would go and we've seen discussions around this, you know, privatization and stuff, they'd be like, oh, the private sector should be dealing with this. Why is the government getting involved in childcare? Shouldn't just, you know, companies provide childcare? Why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the city to step in?

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Well, look, when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to put forward childcare benefits, childcare services, why should that be a company's job? You are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state. I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards childcare. The point of this is that if we do not treat this as the social crisis that it is.

• 55:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  It's, we are going to make, we're going to pass this cost on. And this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for one child is $22,500.

• 56:03Trevor Noah?

  But that's close to what you just said, the earning, the average earning was for, I mean, that's insane.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the City University of New York. than it is to find childcare for them. That's how expensive it is. And we often talk about delivering universal childcare in the language of how much it will cost and how difficult it will be.

• 56:24Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  As if it doesn't already cost this city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare.

• 56:37Trevor Noah?

  Explain how?

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state. After housing, the number one thing driving people out of this city? Childcare.

• 56:46Trevor Noah?

  Well.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  They're going anywhere they can find childcare for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get childcare for. It's also childcare workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home-based setting of $10 an hour.

• 56:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves, why? You know, why? Why is it so hard to raise a family in this city? It's like, look at the cost.

• 57:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  I was sitting on the M57, the slowest bus in Manhattan, a few months ago, and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84-year-old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day.

• 57:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  And she told me that when her 84-year-old grandmother has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work.

• 57:33Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Because she can't afford childcare. We are pushing people out of this city. And frankly, people are feeling it when they're making 40K a year, they're feeling it when they're making 100K, they're feeling it 200K, because $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax.

• 57:47Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  And we could be providing this.

• 57:50Speaker 03

  Question, there's a real question, real question.

• 57:52Trevor Noah?

  We're gonna run out of time.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  No, no, real question.

• 57:55Trevor Noah?

  Choose your last question well.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  Yes. Based on childcare, what is this gonna look like, uh, like practically? Do you know what I mean? What is, what does it mean?

• 58:03Trevor Noah?

  Zora's gonna come look after your child.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  No, man, come on, you see, you are now wasting my time. What is this?

• 58:08Trevor Noah?

  There's never a waste of time when a joke is in, can we all agree?

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Never.

• 58:12Trevor Noah?

  There's, thank you.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Never, never, never.

• 58:14Trevor Noah?

  Jokes are never a waste of time. In fact.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Never.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  But do you know, what is this, what is it look like practically?

• 58:22Trevor Noah?

  That's a great question, by the way.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  You will see a system that is building on the infrastructure we already have. And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center-based care and home-based care, right? There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing childcare for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a childcare center. And we can look at Universal Pre-K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure. Because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government is a sense of urgency, of actually being able to scale something up.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  And that, to me, the commitment we've made, delivering childcare for New Yorkers from ages five down to six weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have Universal Pre-K. We have 3K in New York City, but it is broken. The first order of business is to fix 3K. And then we look at 2K, we look at 1K, we look at delivering childcare for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave. I mean, eighty percent of New Yorkers with children under five cannot afford childcare in this city.

• 59:40Trevor Noah?

  Eighty percent.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Eighty percent!

• 59:43Trevor Noah?

  I find myself wondering about labels a lot and how they limit our ability to think. You know, because your name, synonymous, socialist, and then people are trying to be disparaging, communist, but you see a lot, oh, this socialist is trying to turn America into, this guy doesn't like... And yet, every time I hear you speak, you talk about how much money the thing will generate for businesses, for people themselves, for... Do you, when you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it, do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means? Do you get what I'm saying?

• 1:00:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I think as a Muslim socialist, I'm...

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Familiar with bad PR.

• 1:00:32Trevor Noah?

  Good old MS. You know, those damn MSs.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  It's a long journey to explain. But I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means.

• 1:00:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  I often turn to Dr. King to describe socialism. He said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism. There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life, that you have that. You should not be priced out of a necessity. We're not talking about want or like. We're talking about need. You should not be priced out of, of, of being able to have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school, of being able to ride the bus. And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one to one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of, does my politics include them?

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Do, are their struggles part of my focus? And, and I've found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's, I think, the key of this is how is this a politics that actually reflects the struggles of working people?

• 1:01:48Trevor Noah?

  Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people?

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  I, I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me.

• 1:01:58Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  To be honest, I, I, someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. Uh, and I was saying that part of it is it, it misunderstands that it's not as much who's in front of the camera. It's also who's behind the camera. You can see a distinct moment in the campaign when I stopped making the videos.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  It's the moment when the campaign became legitimate.

• 1:02:19Trevor Noah?

  Right, right.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  And I, and I think that, that, that losing sight of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built.

• 1:02:31Trevor Noah?

  All right, your team is telling us we got to wrap up.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Didn't even talk about Ms. Anzi.

• 1:02:35Trevor Noah?

  That, that's why I'm saying, do you promise to come back? Make, let, give, give me one, that's the only promise I want. Dave wants ambulances.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  I promised to come back.

• 1:02:42Trevor Noah?

  You promised to come back. You don't have to, by the way, you can say no, and then I don't, then I don't have the promise.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  This is my only way.

• 1:02:47Trevor Noah?

  No, no, then I don't have the promise and I don't mind.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  I give you the promise.

• 1:02:50Trevor Noah?

  All right.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Because I, I.

• 1:02:51Trevor Noah?

  I'll take three minutes and then I'll let you go. Here's a few things that I was.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  I wanted to talk about.

• 1:02:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, go, what?

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  I want to talk about Cape Town.

• 1:02:59Trevor Noah?

  They really have to go like right now. Your team is like right. What did you want to talk about? Cape Town and?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Cape Town and? Casper Njovest.

• 1:03:04Trevor Noah?

  Open the door and come get him. Casper Njovest.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  I wanted to talk about Kwesta.

• 1:03:09Trevor Noah?

  Wow, this guy's deep in. This guy's deep in South African.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  I wanted to talk about Ricky Rick. This guy. Rest in peace to Ricky Rick, man. Boszónke?

• 1:03:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah?

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  I love that song.

• 1:03:18Trevor Noah?

  You have to come back.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  And I want to figure out how we can get major league DJs on Spotify. Because I have listened to Sliza Sotsi on YouTube.

• 1:03:27Trevor Noah?

  This guy. We're gonna do a trilogy. This was just the policy stuff. Part two, we're gonna do Zohran's life stuff.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Also, we're having the elections of mayor of Joburg next year.

• 1:03:37Trevor Noah?

  Part three, just South Africa.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  If you're available.

• 1:03:40Trevor Noah?

  Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for, thanks for taking him.

• 1:03:45Trevor Noah?

  It would be so, it would be so funny if you've just got like a dinner reservation. That would be so blazing.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  I wish.

• 1:03:50Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no. I would, I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke. I don't care. If you take him, if this ends in a joke. If Zohran's like, "I gotta go, I gotta go, go." And then he gets in like, "For two, table for two, please." And then he gets in.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Me and Shabalala.

• 1:04:03Trevor Noah?

  Zohran Mamdani, thank you very much. Take, take your man away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that. Don't be dumb. To be continued. Part one.

• 1:04:17Trevor Noah?

  This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Market has everything you need for the holidays, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner. Whole Foods Market has convenience and cost-friendly finds that'll delight everyone at your table. Plus, great gift ideas, all of which follow the Whole Foods Market's strict ingredient standards. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters.

• 1:04:46Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

• 1:05:22Speaker 06

  3 o'clock, kids are home. Your to-do list isn't done. New Kraft Mac and Cheese Power Mac was made for days like this. Kraft Mac and Cheese Power Mac packs the same irresistible creamy cheesy flavor you love, now with 17 grams of protein and 6 grams of fiber. Fuels you up, keeps you going, because your day doesn't stop.

• 1:05:44Speaker 06

  Kraft Mac and Cheese Power Mac. Find it at your favorite retailer. The best thing ever keeps getting better.

• 1:05:52Speaker 05

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