The 25 for ’25 Selection Show Special

In a prerecorded taping from March of 2025, Sean and Amanda peel back the curtain to let you in as they finalize their 25 best movies of the 21st century list in real time, during what Amanda calls "a two-hour, weird psychological exercise that also could have been an email (and was).” Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Bobby Wagner Producers: Jack Sanders and Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sean Fennessey?

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• 0:46Sean Fennessey?

  Terms and conditions apply. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with a good comedy? The cozy blanket arriving with Prime. What pairs with a nail biting thriller? Snacks arriving with Prime. What pairs with big game on Prime Video? That new couch arriving with Prime. Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.

• 1:27Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Finacy.

• 1:28Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 1:29Sean Fennessey?

  And this is sort of The Big Picture, a conversation show about 25 for 25. This is a very special edition of this show. It's really more of a meeting than we're turning into a podcast.

• 1:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:41Sean Fennessey?

  As listeners of this show.

• 1:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Everyone just turned that off. No, it's an argument that we're turning into a podcast.

• 1:47Sean Fennessey?

  A thorough discussion of a project that is very important to this show, that by the time you end up hearing this or seeing this, we will have already presented to the public our definitive 25 movies for the past 25 years list, 25 for 25, which is a big undertaking, a big challenge for us. Um, I think it's gonna, it's really, I feel, this feels like a journey into my mind, like what we're doing here. Like, I'm actually a little tense.

• 2:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 2:17Sean Fennessey?

  Because of what this is.

• 2:18Amanda Dobbins?

  So what is the nature of that? Like, what, what is the anxiety?

• 2:22Sean Fennessey?

  I don't want to fail.

• 2:26Sean Fennessey?

  In my own, by my own standard.

• 2:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:30Sean Fennessey?

  And so I, this is a really like a confrontation of not just what the show is, what we think about things collectively, how I individually process those things. But also there's like an end result that you'll be able to look at and you'll be able to say like, this is what those guys are. Now, whatever we do is going to get picked apart, criticized. I'm not actually worried about that. I think I'm only thinking about my own standard. So we've done so much work already and I'm so unsatisfied with where we stand in this project.

• 2:59Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not final.

• 3:00Sean Fennessey?

  It isn't.

• 3:00Amanda Dobbins?

  This is, this is a healing process, an airing of grievances as well as planning, which, you know, one of those things you love. So if you just activate that play in Sean mode, you know, just toggle that shit on.

• 3:14Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I'm usually very quiet when that happens and this is not a quiet medium.

• 3:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna ask how much of it is actually anxiety about either dealing with me? Or, which I don't really think it is.

• 3:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's really not that.

• 3:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I know that you trust me.

• 3:26Sean Fennessey?

  I do.

• 3:27Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, and I mostly believe that you don't care about what other people will think. So my question for you is, do you feel this level of dissatisfaction when making your own personal list every year? Because you do that, like, as you and I were discussing, we make a lot of lists. We make a lot of lists on this show. We've made a lot of lists in our careers up till now. You just make lists. Like, that is just what you do on a Friday night.

• 3:56Sean Fennessey?

  One of my pastimes.

• 3:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's no doubt about it. It's always been.

• 3:59Amanda Dobbins?

  You get like 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon and you're making a list. And then you're sharing the list and I am, once again, sitting there being like, I am, I am doing the other parts of my life and Sean is just making lists. So what is it about this that feels different?

• 4:15Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I reserve the right to change any of my other lists, you know, like my end of the year list, like I won't change it actually where it stands once it's finalized. But in my head, I can go back and say like, actually in 2014, I thought this was the best movie or actually my favorite Bob Dylan song is this thing. This project is being recorded and we are dedicating 25 individual episodes in this. Discussions to where we land on things. So that actually means at the exclusion, aside from this conversation, of a lot of other things. And so that there being this kind of final announcement that this is the truth of the matter. I don't know. It's like, I, I think it's, I, I regret the, the conceit.

• 4:57Sean Fennessey?

  I, I'm just being honest.

• 4:58Amanda Dobbins?

  So, a few things there. Let's start with, so we're declaring right now, it's, it's March 12th, 2025. Here we are.

• 5:08Amanda Dobbins?

  When we walk out of this room with the list, that's the list.

• 5:12Sean Fennessey?

  I, well, I don't know.

• 5:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. See?

• 5:14Sean Fennessey?

  Well, what do you, let's make, let's make an agreement. You think we can change it?

• 5:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Do whatever we want. First of all, we are, as you said, we are dedicating 25 individual episodes to these movies. And, and so they're going to be shorter. And, and hopefully they will give us a chance to discuss other movies that don't make the list. So first of all, it's not the last time that we are going to talk about,

• 5:37Amanda Dobbins?

  you know, Brokeback Mountain or something, which I just don't like. Brokeback Mountain is not going to make it on the list. I don't think.

• 5:42Sean Fennessey?

  Well, but we gotta talk about it.

• 5:43Amanda Dobbins?

  We gotta talk about it, but like I'm, I'm, I feel pretty confident that one. That's just, that's a loss, which is a, a real shame.

• 5:50Sean Fennessey?

  You wanted Crash and you said if we have to choose one movie from that year.

• 5:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Sensibility, but that's 1995.

• 5:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's a whole other issue.

• 5:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 6:00Amanda Dobbins?

  So we will get to talk about the movies that don't make it on the list.

• 6:05Sean Fennessey?

  I think a lot of the conversation will be also in this conversation of like, what's getting cut? That is really hard to cut.

• 6:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. But we're not filming, we're not doing the episodes all today. You know, we're doing them over the course of the year. So what if we change our minds? What if, what if something debuts at the Cannes Film Festival that absolutely blows our hair back?

• 6:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's crossed my mind.

• 6:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 6:30Sean Fennessey?

  This, this very thing is crossed my mind.

• 6:31Amanda Dobbins?

  We don't have a 2025 movie on here because it's only March.

• 6:34Sean Fennessey?

  I agree with you that through the process of this list, everything is eligible. And it would be really exciting if we could ram something in at number eight that we just saw. And that would be representative of this time.

• 6:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Why can't we rescind number 24?

• 6:49Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 6:50Amanda Dobbins?

  We can't do that.

• 6:51Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 6:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, alright.

• 6:52Sean Fennessey?

  That is too.

• 6:53Amanda Dobbins?

  That's chaos.

• 6:54Sean Fennessey?

  I can't. That actually, I just had like a little panic attack. And I honestly.

• 6:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, when I get the nostril flare, it's so good.

• 7:01Sean Fennessey?

  It's so funny, like, in the process of making this show, because of the way that we talk to each other, because of what our friendship is and whatever this is, I always seem like I'm that kind of person. And I find that in the rest of my life, I don't have this energy. But whenever it comes to like, this will be the representation of how you feel and it is captured. It just feels, I don't know, a little bit more anxiety inducing for me. And I think that this is like, maybe the biggest test I've given, at least myself personally, yet. I'm not really worried about coming to a negotiation with you. We're gonna fight about stuff.

• 7:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but no, I'm not.

• 7:34Sean Fennessey?

  We're gonna have to give each other some grace on some of these picks.

• 7:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But there is a, there's a unified effort despite like, the performance of disgust on a regular basis. We're, we're on the same page. I'm not worried about it at all. I don't feel any anxiety.

• 7:47Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I'm not surprised.

• 7:49Amanda Dobbins?

  That's not true. Like, I would say, outside of these fake walls, and outside of the project of list making, I am the more anxious person.

• 8:00Sean Fennessey?

  I think in real life, we're kind of flipped. Personality wise.

• 8:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally.

• 8:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes.

• 8:05Amanda Dobbins?

  But here, I'm just sort of like, I feel like, I know what I like, I know what you like, I know what we're doing.

• 8:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I know what my taste is, I know what this should be. You've got a whole list here of.

• 8:19Sean Fennessey?

  Your confidence is a beacon, I must say.

• 8:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you so much. You've got a whole list here of, and you've titled it, this, these would make the list more well-rounded and less predictable. Some absolutely, some total masterpieces here, some great movies. I think every one of these would make the list more predictable, because it would be other people's picks, not ours.

• 8:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I, so, let's, let's talk about what we've done thus far. I think that will be helpful, because by the time people hear this, they will already know what all 25 movies are. They'll know the order in which they come. But they'll be able to get a sense of how we went about doing this, which is. Has been interesting. So I asked you some months ago to start. So you put together your first shot at a long list. And the only, um, the only thing we said was it had to be from January 1st, 2000. I think US release is roughly where we're working from. All the way through present day, all films are eligible, but only one film per filmmaker to avoid our usual faves. Tarantino, Fincher, Soderbergh, Sofia Coppola, like all the people who are like the big heroes of the show.

• 9:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Credit Gerwig, Bombak, all the people we really love. And so inevitably what we started putting, what you started putting together was like a couple of dead solid, perfect, we know we're doing this. And then the further down the list you go.

• 9:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Sean Fennessey?

  You get like, mm, I'm not sure if I really want this. And then the further down the list you go, you find all the stuff that you forgot about, but that has to go on the list.

• 9:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 9:44Sean Fennessey?

  And then I did a similar thing underneath that.

• 9:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Can I ask you, what were the circumstances in which you made your kind of free association first draft list?

• 9:54Sean Fennessey?

  That's a really good question. Well, why don't you tell me what yours were? I try to remember.

• 9:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Mine was on date night with my husband at Mr. Lyons in Palm Springs.

• 10:02Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, one of my favorite steak houses in the world.

• 10:04Amanda Dobbins?

  So I was definitely two drinks in. And I guess there are some Zach suggestions and, but Zach provided unessential support that he has often provided to the big picture, which is saying things and then me saying, no, that's wrong. But also like being the backboard, you know?

• 10:22Sean Fennessey?

  There's many ways in which Zach and I can relate. That is one of them.

• 10:25Amanda Dobbins?

  But it helps me hone my craft.

• 10:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 10:28Amanda Dobbins?

  So the, the process that you described of, okay, well, here are the obvious ones. And then like, here's my second glass of wine and I'm gonna like get a little frisky. And then, oh, wow, I forgot this and this and this and this.

• 10:41Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 10:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Was a bit the process. And I think I sent you 35 movies.

• 10:46Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. I didn't clock that.

• 10:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I just, I only know that because I went back and I put 35.

• 10:50Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't have a date night. That actually would have been nice. And maybe I should run this by Eileen before we actually start making the episodes. Cause we haven't made any of the episodes yet, but, um, I think I tried to do it without looking at anything. I think I tried to just almost like,

• 11:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 11:05Sean Fennessey?

  you know, air gap my laptop and just do it off the top of my head.

• 11:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Off the top of your head, yeah.

• 11:08Sean Fennessey?

  And I was able to use the list that you had and say, okay, from there. And so, you know, we made this long list. I won't really spoil like what was on your initial round per se. But like, for example, like I think the additions that I made, the first one I thought of, which is not going to make the list, almost certainly, was Uncle Boon Me Who Can Recall His Past Lives, which is a Pitchpong Verisoceticals movie that was like, was a huge phenomenon in the art house world. And whenever I think of 21st century movies, for whatever reason, that's a movie that sticks out. I haven't seen it in like 15 years. And we don't talk about it on the show. It's not really like a part of the show. It's just like a kind of a new cinema classic.

• 11:49Sean Fennessey?

  And so I think what I was realizing was that I was processing a lot of other people's lists.

• 11:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 11:55Sean Fennessey?

  And the point of this exercise is to represent our taste.

• 11:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, in your defense, one of the things that I sent to you, I remember I sent you this list at like 11 on a Saturday night, very normal. And then I said, this is obviously missing. This is weak on international.

• 12:14Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Very weak on animation, obviously.

• 12:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 12:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, and also you can pick which Spielberg should go on the list. I like, I know what, I'm like, I know what I think you'll pick, but like I didn't pick one. So those were the three things.

• 12:28Sean Fennessey?

  Right. So maybe because of that note that you sent, I thought about Almodovar, I thought about Michael Hanukkah, I thought about Terrence Malick, I thought about Miyazaki, I thought about Edward Yang. Like, I thought about directors who I was like, I know a man is not thinking about these people. But when you're talking about the century in movies, these are important people in the discussion. Whether or not they're our favorites,

• 12:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Sean Fennessey?

  come to find out. But, so that was like my first stab at it. And I think I was just like at my laptop one evening, you know, after bedtime.

• 12:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right, right.

• 12:58Sean Fennessey?

  And.

• 13:00Sean Fennessey?

  Then I, we had this like mega list and you added to the list after that as well? Or you had a couple of notes on top of the notes that I shared? I'm wondering if we should even share this with the public. It might actually be funny to.

• 13:11Amanda Dobbins?

  To share that document?

• 13:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, I don't have it open right now. Will you send me the?

• 13:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Will you send me the link? Meetings, meetings.

• 13:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, this is really.

• 13:19Amanda Dobbins?

  This is how we do meetings.

• 13:20Sean Fennessey?

  This is how we do meetings. And it is a lot of people just looking at shared documents, which can be kind of.

• 13:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you slacking me or are you?

• 13:25Sean Fennessey?

  I just, I just texted you.

• 13:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, that's good because I need, there was also a text message portion of this.

• 13:31Sean Fennessey?

  We did text back and forth a little bit.

• 13:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And that, that was like a really classic Saturday afternoon. I guess you had negotiated, it was during Sundance. I remember this because you had negotiated Sundance watching time. And you were suddenly just like hitting me with long lists over texts.

• 13:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 13:46Amanda Dobbins?

  And I was like cooking and my in-laws were in town and like negotiating with you about Almost Famous. And I thought like, listen, in that moment I had it all, you know? I really thought that I hung in, but I, the text message is an important document.

• 14:02Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know where, maybe you can find that exchange that we were having back then. I think the other thing that I did after you sent along your list was I started adding underneath it.

• 14:10Amanda Dobbins?

  The option.

• 14:10Sean Fennessey?

  The other movie from the director. So like, let's just talk about, let's just go through it. Let's just, I'll, we'll talk about what you shared and then my, my rejoinder to that, my addition to that. First name on the list is There Will Be Blood.

• 14:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 14:22Sean Fennessey?

  Um, which makes all the sense in the world, except for when I started doing our cut down list, which I'll get to very shortly. I completely forgot about There Will Be Blood.

• 14:31Amanda Dobbins?

  That was part of that Saturday afternoon, which was you sent me the list and then you, you followed up with, just realized There Will Be Blood is not on this.

• 14:37Sean Fennessey?

  So this process is pretty silly and you know, we are, uh, we have our faults. Um, immediately under There Will Be Blood, I put The Master. I guess you could make the case for a few other PTA movies. I think Phantom Thread, I think Inherent Vice, like all these movies, you know, Punch Drunk Love. All these movies have like big fandoms. For me personally, There Will Be Blood is just a big movie in my life. So I think that that was right. You identified that. Now, the next movie on the list is No Country For Old Men, came out the same year as There Will Be Blood. Did your mind go straight to that when you and Zach were talking?

• 15:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but just because of 2007. And because, look, the third movie on the list is Michael Clayton, so I just kind of did.

• 15:17Sean Fennessey?

  So you started there.

• 15:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I think. Because it's such a heavyweight year and also it is such like a ringer and you and me and Chris.

• 15:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Year in terms of that was when like all the big guns were really.

• 15:32Sean Fennessey?

  We're in our twenties, we're going to the movies all the time.

• 15:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly.

• 15:34Sean Fennessey?

  And it feels like kind of the last gasp of like all the versions of Hollywood that we liked. I think No Country For Old Men would not be my pick. And I don't know if it's gonna end up being our pick. We're gonna talk about it momentarily, but I immediately wrote down A Serious Man and Inside Lewin Davis, which are two movies that I like more than No Country For Old Men. No Country For Old Men, for me, is a novel that I loved. Chris put me on to the novel. I think that's when I started reading McCarthy books.

• 16:00Sean Fennessey?

  And I think because I picked a side with PTA a little bit, it influences this. And it's also just not a very Coens-y movie.

• 16:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 16:09Sean Fennessey?

  And the Coens tone is something I've always loved and still love. So because of that, it feels not representative.

• 16:15Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not Coens going mainstream, but it is like more people got on the bandwagon for that one. And you have, you know, been diehard since.

• 16:23Sean Fennessey?

  I was like, you aren't with me on the man who wasn't there, you know? Like, if you're not there then, why aren't you here now?

• 16:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't feel about No Country For Old Men, but I really understand that feeling in a profound way.

• 16:36Sean Fennessey?

  You have your similar, your people as well, people that jump on the bandwagon. Michael Clayton, no brainer, we'll get there.

• 16:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 16:44Sean Fennessey?

  The Dark Knight. I like that you wrote this down. I was a little surprised. I think the only person who likes is a little iftier on Oppenheimer and, not on Oppenheimer, on Interstellar and Inception than I am is you. So we're a little, No Country is a tricky one for us.

• 16:57Amanda Dobbins?

  So The Dark Knight, though, and Here Is Where We Go magazine, brainless brain. I don't know, you guys, you guys hit play on this podcast, so.

• 17:05Sean Fennessey?

  No, this is important.

• 17:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Buckle up.

• 17:06Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe give some context for what we did in our careers before we did this.

• 17:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a great point. If you're just joining the big picture. For some reason, listening to this two-hour weird psychological exercise that also could have been an email, um, and was before we turned it into content. Sean and I are both recovering magazine journalists. Sean worked at, I don't know, Vibe, GQ, what else am I forgetting? Obviously, Grantland.

• 17:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, a number of other places, yeah. Many places that publish many lists over the years.

• 17:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I was in New York Magazine for a very long time.

• 17:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 17:39Amanda Dobbins?

  So, shout out Vulture, I love you forever. So, we are trained in making these packages with lists and supporting editorial pieces and investigations and charts and big essays and trying to provoke people into paying attention to what we think.

• 18:00Sean Fennessey?

  That is what it was.

• 18:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 18:01Sean Fennessey?

  And I think that there is like a sincere part of list-making and packaging, and then there is a cynical part of it. And so, I've always tried to make this show, personally, that same combination that I pursued in my work as a magazine editor. And I think you're right that The Dark Knight is both for me. It is actually the Nolan movie that gets me the most excited.

• 18:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:25Sean Fennessey?

  And it is also the populist choice that is representative of an entire wave of movies.

• 18:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 18:31Sean Fennessey?

  From this century. So, even though I wrote Oppenheimer Prestige and Interstellar underneath it, and I think many people who are younger than us would choose Interstellar.

• 18:40Amanda Dobbins?

  That's cool.

• 18:41Sean Fennessey?

  But for us, that's not the movie.

• 18:42Amanda Dobbins?

  That's, and you guys, and I know I normally say this in a disrespectful way, but you know, this is like movie mom supporting you in your dreams, make your own list. You know, you guys can go do it. I hope you will.

• 18:56Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe we can encourage that as part of this process.

• 18:59Amanda Dobbins?

  As long as you do it with kindness, go for it. The thing about Dark Knight, in addition to it ticking both the Nolan box and the superhero box. I think it's the best action movie of all of the movies that you just named.

• 19:15Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:16Amanda Dobbins?

  And it is serving action. Like, it is taking, because we have a couple of action movies on this list, but it is, it has all three of those. Also, one of the great performances of the 21st century in Heath Ledger's Joker.

• 19:28Sean Fennessey?

  A hundred percent.

• 19:28Amanda Dobbins?

  You've got four.

• 19:30Sean Fennessey?

  There's a number of reasons why it works so well. We'll talk about it when we do the episode. I think this is, I think we're gonna end up with The Dark Knight as our Nolan movie.

• 19:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Sean Fennessey?

  I would be surprised if we don't. I have a lot of affection for it. I, I was on the rewatchables early on in the run about that movie and was doing a lot of nitpicking in that episode. And I've heard over the years, like, you guys fucked this one up. Because maybe the show had not totally evolved into like, we love everything about this, except for whatever bad politics are left over from this movie. And, but it's always been a movie that has like, kinda made my hair stand up. So I, I would push for it regardless. So I was happy to see that you put it there. Then Lady Bird and Little Women, obviously.

• 20:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so Lady Bird is what I put on.

• 20:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, Lady Bird is at the top. I would go Lady Bird, too. I think I put Little Women on just to have the discussion. We can have the discussion very briefly now, if you'd like.

• 20:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Little Women is one of the most under-celebrated movies of the last 10 years, including by me. And, you know.

• 20:22Sean Fennessey?

  Once again, you're setting it down.

• 20:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I said, I know, I feel bad. And I, why am I doing that? I guess because Lady Bird is both, you know, it is the debut feature. It is original, written and directed by Greta Gerwig. Little Women is an adaptation. I think it's like a genius adaptation and it is in conversation with, like, both that novel, all of the movies that have been made before it, just the whole idea of, you know, women in society. So there's, there's, it's, it's doing a lot and doing it really artfully. But I, I, I think that, I guess I'm just prizing the original, which is maybe lame, but that's where I am.

• 21:10Sean Fennessey?

  I would go Lady Bird 100 times out of 100. I think that every generation gets a great coming of age movie. I think this is that generation's great coming of age movie.

• 21:21Sean Fennessey?

  I wouldn't argue for Little Women or Barbie, and I don't think I'll be arguing for the Chronicles of Narnia either.

• 21:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't even try for Barbie. But let's stop doing that. Let, let, right now, let's just say,

• 21:30Sean Fennessey?

  Stop doing what?

• 21:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's just stop doing that thing where you've just written Greta Gerwig's entire career off.

• 21:36Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't, I'm not writing her career off.

• 21:38Amanda Dobbins?

  The way you were just sort of like, I don't, I don't,

• 21:40Sean Fennessey?

  It comes for us all. As you said, school is expensive.

• 21:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I did, I know. I brought this up recently, which was in March, for those of you listening, and I, listen, Barbie in The Chronicles of Narnia, and I loved Barbie. I thought, I thought that, I mean, she's a genius. I want to be her when I grow up, and I never will be, but,

• 21:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I would like more ladybirds.

• 22:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's not what you would have done. Yes, yes. It's not what you would have done.

• 22:03Amanda Dobbins?

  The market doesn't want more ladybirds, though, so, and again, school is expensive.

• 22:06Sean Fennessey?

  Look, Nolan made three Batman movies, and then went on and did, you know, Dunkirk Tenet,

• 22:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 22:12Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Oppenheimer, The Odyssey, so.

• 22:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, should Dunkirk have been on that list? I mean, we, we're not gonna pick Dunkirk over The Dark Knight, but like,

• 22:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's a movie that I have a great admiration for, but I don't have a deep emotional relationship to. I think if CR were here, it probably would have been his Nolan pick.

• 22:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 22:27Sean Fennessey?

  Um, but CR is probably gonna end up doing his own version of this on his show for TV, so, you know, he can,

• 22:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, he is? Oh, that's fun.

• 22:34Sean Fennessey?

  I would assume. I think we're all across the ring, you're doing a lot of this stuff.

• 22:37Amanda Dobbins?

  We should let, um, Chris record an episode to also come out around now, which is just like his response?

• 22:43Sean Fennessey?

  I do not.

• 22:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that would be funny.

• 22:46Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he's welcome to record it. Um, where it will be released, I don't know. Uh, okay.

• 22:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Chris is, Chris Ryan is the only person in the universe who I would take feedback from on this.

• 22:57Sean Fennessey?

  But the thing is, is that it's not in his nature to be like, here's what you got wrong. That's why he's such a good friend.

• 23:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, well, that's, but that's,

• 23:03Sean Fennessey?

  And obviously, a critical component of this show.

• 23:05Amanda Dobbins?

  So, one thing I like, think we're missing content-wise, is just like, Chris Ryan, just like, Chris Ryan's take on stuff that is like not Chris Ryan core. You know, he sees the world in a unique way. So whether it's Chris Ryan cooking something or Chris Ryan going through this list and being like, here's my opinion about it.

• 23:23Sean Fennessey?

  He hasn't seen Little Women because it's directed by a woman. So like, we can't, he's actually just not well suited to a lot of these questions. Moonlight was the next movie you had on the list. Interestingly, he is not on the cut down list right now.

• 23:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 23:36Sean Fennessey?

  Now, I know why you went to it. Best Picture winner, huge transitional movie about the state of Hollywood. Barry Jenkins, Eight Twenty Four, a movie we both love.

• 23:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, beautiful movie.

• 23:46Sean Fennessey?

  But when confronted with the actual Twenty Five, I couldn't find a place for it. So we, again, we can talk through it.

• 23:54Amanda Dobbins?

  We did a, I guess it was the Best Picture movie draft?

• 23:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 24:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Where this came up again, where it's like, I do think because we talk about Moonlight so much as like a historical significance, that we tend to underappreciate it as a, as a film.

• 24:11Sean Fennessey?

  Very possible. I think it might just be a, kind of a negative recency bias because Barry is coming off of Mufasa instead of a triumph. And so it doesn't feel necessarily like

• 24:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 24:23Sean Fennessey?

  the right time to celebrate it or something like that. Nevertheless, Moonlight, I think that's a reasonable add to the long list. And then Inglourious Basterds, which is certainly the Quentin movie that you and I agree on the most. I think he's got a couple of like-

• 24:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Do I disagree on any Quentin movie?

• 24:38Sean Fennessey?

  No, but I would imagine that like, I probably have more affection for Kill Bill, Volume One than you do.

• 24:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I really like Kill Bill.

• 24:45Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not, I'm not taking anything away from you by saying that. I think, I think I'm just, I think Inglourious Basterds is an intersection of a lot of things that we both like.

• 24:56Sean Fennessey?

  Whereas like Kill Bill, you know, you're not the world's biggest Hong Kong and Japanese Samurai and Kung Fu fan.

• 25:03Amanda Dobbins?

  That is true.

• 25:04Sean Fennessey?

  You know, so it doesn't mean that it's not very accessible in Kill Bill. Well, it's not super accessible, but um- The thing is, is I don't, are we sure it's not Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?

• 25:15Amanda Dobbins?

  We can talk about it.

• 25:16Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 25:16Amanda Dobbins?

  We can talk about it.

• 25:17Sean Fennessey?

  That was the first thing that came to mind and I put it right underneath it. Let's keep going. Get Out.

• 25:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't even try. I mean, you can try. You can say it. You've written here.

• 25:23Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think that it should be Nope. I think Get Out is the most important film. I think there is a decent chance because, because Jordan Peele reveres John Carpenter so much, that Jordan ends up having a kind of Carpenter-esque career where Get Out is Halloween and Nope is the thing. And a lot of time is gonna go by and people are gonna be like, ah, Nope. We didn't really recognize or appreciate what that movie was in its time. I could be wrong about that and I, what I'm trying to avoid is like that level of thinking that I sometimes default to, to get in the, in the miasma of this stuff.

• 25:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 25:59Sean Fennessey?

  So Get Out, I think, is the right choice.

• 26:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you. Good.

• 26:02Sean Fennessey?

  Lost in Translation is what you shared.

• 26:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:04Sean Fennessey?

  Which I thought was fascinating because I did what I think you wanted to do.

• 26:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, you did.

• 26:09Sean Fennessey?

  Which I think is right.

• 26:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it is right because I think, but especially on the first draft, I was trying to write down what like quote unquote should be on our list.

• 26:23Sean Fennessey?

  And you wrote down Lost in Translation.

• 26:24Amanda Dobbins?

  And I wrote down Lost in Translation, which obviously got her nominated for all the Oscars.

• 26:29Sean Fennessey?

  She won an Oscar.

• 26:30Amanda Dobbins?

  It was a big breakthrough.

• 26:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Even though Virgin Suicides is also eligible and is also excellent.

• 26:37Sean Fennessey?

  Isn't it? Did we figure that out?

• 26:38Amanda Dobbins?

  It is. It's a 2000.

• 26:39Sean Fennessey?

  It debuted in 2000. Okay. It was 99, like a can or something?

• 26:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, yes.

• 26:44Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 26:45Amanda Dobbins?

  When this airs, we'll already have done the 2000 movie draft with the.

• 26:49Sean Fennessey?

  The crew, the big crew.

• 26:50Amanda Dobbins?

  And if Rob Mahoney takes Virgin Suicides for me, I just.

• 26:53Sean Fennessey?

  Mark that down, Bob.

• 26:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I just honestly like, then, then Rob had a good podcasting run and it's over now because I ended it.

• 27:03Amanda Dobbins?

  But no, Marie Antoinette is my, is my passion.

• 27:09Sean Fennessey?

  That's, to me, that's the good magazine editor pick as well. That's what I like about it. Lost in Translation is a great movie. I love that movie. I probably, I'm almost, I almost certainly love it more than Marie Antoinette.

• 27:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 27:19Sean Fennessey?

  But I see you and I acknowledge you and I recognize.

• 27:22Amanda Dobbins?

  And you also, you like, you get why I'm into Marie Antoinette, right? Like, it is what she's doing at a maximalist, like, very cool.

• 27:30Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely. It is, and it is like, kind of as close as she ever got to a Blank Check movie and going for a few things that you wouldn't be able to normally get away with, which I really admire, as you know. A few quick ones.

• 27:45Sean Fennessey?

  Moneyball, which is a patron saint of this podcast. This list, no matter what happens, we'll have Moneyball on it. We are, of course, The Ringer, sports, ideas about sports, Brad Pitt. These are a lot of things, you know.

• 27:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Aaron Sorkin, right?

• 27:59Sean Fennessey?

  Spike Jonze cuckling Brad Pitt, you know, like, these are things that we're interested in. Aaron Sorkin.

• 28:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Has the team shaping up this year?

• 28:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. So that's a no-brainer to me. Francis Ha.

• 28:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a no-brainer for you and me. But except for...

• 28:14Sean Fennessey?

  It's really tough, though, because we already have Lady Bird, and, and this is, it's not solo bomback. It is Greta and Noah bomback.

• 28:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 28:24Sean Fennessey?

  Now, Francis Ha, I agree. Again, this is very similar to Inglourious Basterds, where it's sort of like, they made a movie and they put like our DNA in it.

• 28:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And our, and our hearts.

• 28:35Sean Fennessey?

  100%. So I don't want to over, like, outthink myself on this, but, you know, The Squid and the Whale is like a very important movie to me.

• 28:47Amanda Dobbins?

  If we did, if we did a different bomback, it would need to be a marriage story.

• 28:51Sean Fennessey?

  I was gonna, well, that would have been my next suggestion.

• 28:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 28:55Sean Fennessey?

  I think he just writes very well about a lot of feelings that we have. It's like overeducated, white 40-somethings.

• 29:01Amanda Dobbins?

  We are bomback disciples, you know? Like, we are. We were of an impressionable age when we saw Kicking and Screaming, and it just, it like, it goes from there, you know?

• 29:10Sean Fennessey?

  I'm, I'm very loyal to him, and so it's not to, it's not like doing Francis Ha is disloyal to him, but it's almost like you get 1.5 Gerwig and half of a bomback on your list then? You know what I'm saying?

• 29:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I do, but there's something that like, that Frances Ha unlocks in him that I think you then also can see in Marriage Story that is like very magical and emotional. So I, I don't, I don't think 1.5 Gerwig, 0.5 Baumbach is totally fair.

• 29:42Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so we'll do Greenberg then.

• 29:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 29:45Sean Fennessey?

  Good, it's settled. Um, okay, Frances Ha, I'll roll with it. The Social Network?

• 29:49Amanda Dobbins?

  You know the scene in Greenberg when they're driving to the abortion or they're driving home? I can't, and she's like, can we go to In-N-Out? And he's like, of course, it's your day.

• 30:02Sean Fennessey?

  That is good. That is, that's pretty similar to your life.

• 30:05Amanda Dobbins?

  It really is.

• 30:06Sean Fennessey?

  That is kinda how it is for you. Um, we were just talking about marital negotiations and travel just yesterday. You know, it's all negotiation. Uh, okay. Let's talk about David Fincher. Here's a conundrum. The Social Network may be the best movie of the 2010s. Zodiac might be the best David Fincher movie, but it isn't even the best movie of 2007. This is the pickle of trying to do this. Um, I have said many times Zodiac's my favorite Fincher.

• 30:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:33Sean Fennessey?

  But The Social Network is very representative of a lot about the show, of the world that we live in right now, of a sort of writing and directing style that we really like. It's a movie that in theory will be right near the absolute tippy top of the list, and many listeners will know and we don't care.

• 30:52Sean Fennessey?

  I just wanna say it again. Zodiac, is this like the hardest cut on the whole list because of the rule that I created and imposing on myself for no good reason other than to avoid putting two Fincher movies or five Fincher movies on the list? You say what?

• 31:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you get that out of your system?

• 31:10Sean Fennessey?

  I did, I got it all out.

• 31:11Amanda Dobbins?

  You got it out?

• 31:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Can you tell I've been grinding on it?

• 31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That was just like, we needed to put you back in the void for that. I'm glad we gave you your piece. The answer is The Social Network.

• 31:21Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, but you won't even acknowledge?

• 31:23Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I love Zodiac. But li- listen, when we did the two-part David Fincher rankings, I was outvoted because it was you and Chris over me, and somehow we put Zodiac at number one.

• 31:32Sean Fennessey?

  Sweet revenge, eh?

• 31:33Amanda Dobbins?

  And The Social Network number two. Listen, it's like essential to our project. Is we just really, really, really love that movie. And- And it is like our generation's Citizen Kane. And I, I do think it's one of those things where we think it's so obvious that we're then like trying to get frisky and out overthink it. And you're like, okay, but really, actually it's Zodiac. And, and sure, you love Zodiac, but I think the answer is the social network.

• 32:03Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. I think the social network is increasingly a little bit lost on younger listeners of the show.

• 32:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 32:09Sean Fennessey?

  Because it was, and whether or not, and that doesn't matter for our purposes.

• 32:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Pull up a chair, young friends.

• 32:14Sean Fennessey?

  Whether or not some of these movies are, you had to be their movies is kind of interesting to me as a, as a result of this process, but we can keep going through it. Let's just say we'll hold space for social network. And then Martin Scorsese, and you wrote down The Wolf of Wall Street.

• 32:28Amanda Dobbins?

  I did.

• 32:29Sean Fennessey?

  Which I believe is correct.

• 32:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I have immaculate taste.

• 32:35Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, no, but um, you have good taste, very interesting taste for sure. I think, and you know how to make a list with me, which I appreciate.

• 32:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Sean Fennessey?

  Scorsese, how many people would really say this is his best movie of the century? Is that, would you think that would be the most common response?

• 32:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Bobby's nodding.

• 32:54Sean Fennessey?

  You think so, Bob?

• 32:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Among people who are paying attention, do I think it's his most widely seen? No, it's The Departed. Like, that's great. The Departed is wonderful.

• 33:03Sean Fennessey?

  Would not be my pick.

• 33:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And I know you ride for Silence and.

• 33:08Sean Fennessey?

  I will, Silence will have its time on this show.

• 33:10Amanda Dobbins?

  So.

• 33:10Sean Fennessey?

  That's how I feel about Silence. It will have its time on this show. Also, I learned something that I did not know, which is that Silence had been previously adapted by a Japanese filmmaker. I can't recall the filmmaker's name, but I was just reading about this the other day. And there's another version of that story and I have to go seek that out and go watch it. Sorry to interrupt you.

• 33:28Amanda Dobbins?

  It's okay. I, I admire Silence.

• 33:31Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 33:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, it is like important for men to quite literally not say very much and grapple with their faith and ambition and all of that stuff every once in a while. So I give you that space every day. I give Martin Scorsese that space.

• 33:46Sean Fennessey?

  Adam Driver and Andrew Garfield together as tortured priests.

• 33:50Amanda Dobbins?

  I was about to say, I do think that the experience of making Silence.

• 33:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Set forward a chain reaction that gave us the Andrew Garfield we have today. And again, it's March 2025, so I don't know what he's been up to the last nine months. I believe in him and that he can continue just the absolutely unrivaled streak that he's on.

• 34:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 34:13Amanda Dobbins?

  But I also take no responsibility for any poor choices.

• 34:16Sean Fennessey?

  Same.

• 34:17Amanda Dobbins?

  But so I do thank Silence for that.

• 34:21Sean Fennessey?

  I've also written down The Irishman, The Irishman, Silence, The Departed, I think are the ones that came to mind.

• 34:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Killers of the Flower Moon, yeah?

• 34:29Sean Fennessey?

  It would, I think it's ultimately a superior movie to The Departed, but a less important movie than than The Departed in Scorsese's story. The Departed, though, is just rip roaring entertaining. And so if you're looking for a fusion of the big idea, the craft and the entertainment, The Wolf of Wall Street is the answer. It is the one that does all of those things. It's representative of this big idea of American greed and thrilling Leonardo DiCaprio performance at the center of it, one of his best.

• 34:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 35:00Sean Fennessey?

  And just a really, really, just a fun movie. So got no quibbles, just worth discussing because it's Scorsese. Next was Parasite on your list.

• 35:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Sean Fennessey?

  And we just had this conversation, actually, about Mickey 17, and we did land on Parasite as our number one Bong Joon-ho movie. So, you know, I Memories of Murder popped to mind. That did come in at number two on our list.

• 35:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Great film. We do like to, you know, it's tough.

• 35:23Sean Fennessey?

  The cool move would be Memories of Murder.

• 35:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's tough when the when the good movie actually does win Best Picture, you know, and we never know what to do about it.

• 35:33Sean Fennessey?

  This is a relatively new phenomenon.

• 35:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. And so we that we don't really know what to do with it. And so I think like our instinct is to overthink it because it was celebrated.

• 35:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I have been, I thought about this with the Moonlight situation, too. And I've just been struggling with this as a, as a. Person in middle age, which is that you just have this dawning realization that you are the mainstream target for consensus ideas and that you are the most

• 36:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't, I mean, congratulations.

• 36:03Sean Fennessey?

  Consumer and I mean, a normal and best picture. That was your favorite movie of the year.

• 36:06Amanda Dobbins?

  That is true.

• 36:07Sean Fennessey?

  How many times can you say that that was the case? You can also say it about Parasite. So you're in the target as well. And we can pat ourselves on the back and be like, oh, well, the Academy is so international and just evolved so, so dramatically. They made so many changes, but it's like, also you're at that age where you're not going against the grain as much anymore. And you don't want to go against the grain as much anymore. You want your taste to be like at the absolute pinnacle of their industries or whatever. Cause that communicates some kind of like generational power, power shift. I'm, I'm really, I'm so obsessed with this idea.

• 36:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Sean Fennessey?

  And so this exercise, I think is kind of a, it's sort of like a resonance of that idea. The parasite thing though, is just like, I rewatched some of it to prepare for that bong episode and I was like, this is, this is it, you know, this is like thriller.

• 36:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Undeniable.

• 36:53Sean Fennessey?

  Satire at its absolute best. So I won't, I won't argue any further on that one. Something's got to give. Is this the only choice? Of course there would be a Nancy Meyers movie on the list. Is this the only choice?

• 37:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I for a second, yes, it is the only choice.

• 37:09Sean Fennessey?

  Because I didn't write down the intern or it's complicated. I think it's complicated. It's very flawed.

• 37:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I, it is very flawed.

• 37:14Sean Fennessey?

  Is very good.

• 37:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I do like the, I like them both. I thought about it's complicated, but I was immediately like, no, no, no. It is, it is flawed. It like has great charm and it has Meryl Streep, but the answer to me between those two, which are woman of a certain age, uh, wearing turtlenecks and rediscovering romance late in life.

• 37:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah. They're twinned.

• 37:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And something's got to give is like clearly superior.

• 37:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And then the intern is kind of her answer to Baby Boom and, and, and pretty fascinating. And I do like Anne Hathaway, but it does also just have like Rene Russo as the masseuse for a while, you know, falling in love with Robert De Niro.

• 38:04Sean Fennessey?

  Completely forgot about that.

• 38:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is like, which is lovely, but you know, like it's, that's cool.

• 38:09Sean Fennessey?

  A little baggier side story.

• 38:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. And Something's Gotta Give is I like just the height of Nancy Meyers' powers. And also I think the, I mean, the most influential and kind of the culturally has kind of percolated, you know, through society the most, so.

• 38:25Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I'm totally fine with that. I love Something's Gotta Give. I think that's probably my favorite Nancy Meyers movie.

• 38:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it's, it is, it's the best one.

• 38:31Sean Fennessey?

  So the next pick you made is The Handmaiden, which I think, I can't figure out if The Handmaiden is the cool person pick.

• 38:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 38:39Sean Fennessey?

  Or not the cool person pick, or the consensus obvious pick. I think this is a Park Chan Wook movie. And my mind immediately went to Old Boy.

• 38:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 38:47Sean Fennessey?

  Because Old Boy was this kind of like banging introduction to, for many American moviegoers into the Park Chan Wook experience. The Handmaiden was made at this, this very early stage of streamers funding movies. And so Amazon brought it to America. It's a beautiful, very sexy, dark thriller.

• 39:14Sean Fennessey?

  It's a movie that I love, so I'm not, I'm not quibbling with it. I'm trying to figure out like, what would be the more interesting choice? Would it be this movie, which is more recent? Or would it be Old Boy, which was extremely influential?

• 39:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 39:27Sean Fennessey?

  And to your point about the Dark Knight and action movies, you know, this is an action thriller, but it's got, you could make the case the most memorable fight scene in the movies in the 2000s, in the hallway fight, the hammer fight.

• 39:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:40Sean Fennessey?

  So I just want to, I just want to float that.

• 39:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It was, I wrote down The Handmaiden because of all the sex, obviously.

• 39:49Sean Fennessey?

  And there are not a lot of, although The Wolf of Wall Street has plenty of that stuff too.

• 39:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but like in a, in a different way. So I know-

• 39:56Sean Fennessey?

  Easily Park's sexiest movie.

• 39:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I know why I'm voting for The Handmaiden, but, but that doesn't have to be the reason.

• 40:04Sean Fennessey?

  You know, not like your traditional-

• 40:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, but you know.

• 40:07Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Adrian Lyne, you know, romantic thriller, it's-

• 40:09Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. Romantic thriller is like erotic. I didn't realize there's a lot of romance in Adrian Lyne.

• 40:15Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you, yes, you know, you're right, erotic thriller. Okay, I, I am generally good with The Handmaiden.

• 40:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, I'm open to old boy, if you want to do it.

• 40:21Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen The Handmaiden, I think, since it came out.

• 40:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 40:22Sean Fennessey?

  That's something I gotta do.

• 40:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 40:24Sean Fennessey?

  Is revisit that, if we're gonna end up making that choice. And then maybe that's one where I like blink. See, that's something that could change as we go through the list. We could be going through the list, and there could be a director who has a, like a 1B, and I blink at the last minute, and I'm like, it's really gotta be this. That's in play.

• 40:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, well, it, that's, it's gonna be a case by case basis. I'm, I'm okay with that being an option broadly, and then whether I accept the change will depend on the movie itself.

• 40:49Sean Fennessey?

  We are aligned on Before Sunset.

• 40:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 40:52Sean Fennessey?

  I just think that's our, that's one of our movies.

• 40:54Amanda Dobbins?

  You were saying to me that, at, at some point, that if you could have nudged me towards boyhood on this list, that that might be where you would go on your own?

• 41:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think boyhood exists in the same realm as the way you were describing Moonlight. And I know that you're not a huge, like a huge boyhood fan, but I think it is now because it was like locked in an Oscar race, and there was so much press around how it was made, that what the movie actually is, is like a little misunderstood or misremembered. Again, when I talk about this movie, I'm always like, God, this movie feels just like really close to my life. And any, the same thing with The Squid and the Whale, where like any movie that I'm, that kinda can like scrape the, the interior of my mind, I tend to have a big emotional relationship to. I, but I do recognize that like, it does not work for everyone, that actually the conceit itself, or like the actor who, who is the, you know, um, Eller Coltrane, like some people just don't think he's like that strong-

• 41:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Sean Fennessey?

  -as a performer, and so that holds the movie back in some ways. I, I acknowledge all those criticisms.

• 41:57Sean Fennessey?

  I think the- I think the Wolf of Wall Street case is Everybody Wants Some because that's the most fun movie.

• 42:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I do love Everybody Wants Some. And the older my sons grow, the more I'm just like, oh, wow, I have.

• 42:10Sean Fennessey?

  You're gonna be one of those houses.

• 42:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I had the supporting cast of Everybody Wants Some, just growing up.

• 42:15Sean Fennessey?

  Very good point.

• 42:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, which is like thrilling to me.

• 42:19Sean Fennessey?

  You know how to hang with the boys.

• 42:20Amanda Dobbins?

  It's like, well, no, I just, I'm like, there is something like very, you know, good natured and goofy about that movie for all of their, you know, doltness.

• 42:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's poignant, but and but but not saccharine.

• 42:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 42:34Sean Fennessey?

  And fun and funny, but not stupid.

• 42:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 42:38Sean Fennessey?

  Um, it feels a bit more like a guy telling you an anecdote than it does a movie.

• 42:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Sean Fennessey?

  It's a little bit like, let me tell you about this thing, this great weekend I had 10 years ago. But the vibes are so good and the performances are so good. Obviously, that's when we got on the Glenn Powell train. But Before Sunset, you know, we just did a rewatchables about it like a month ago. It's just a tremendously important, uh, and one of the most romantic movies ever.

• 43:06Amanda Dobbins?

  And also is a sequel.

• 43:08Sean Fennessey?

  It is a sequel.

• 43:09Amanda Dobbins?

  So we, I mean, and we don't.

• 43:10Sean Fennessey?

  Is it the only sequel?

• 43:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's see.

• 43:12Sean Fennessey?

  I guess The Dark Knight is technically a sequel.

• 43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, no, we have some other.

• 43:18Sean Fennessey?

  We do.

• 43:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Sean Fennessey?

  I see some, yeah.

• 43:19Amanda Dobbins?

  You know.

• 43:20Sean Fennessey?

  A few sequels, which is actually quite a few, which is interesting to talk through. Okay, let's keep moving.

• 43:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 43:25Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Quarrel. Now, you wrote Children of Men. Did you write that with me in mind?

• 43:31Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I think it just, I was literally thinking through, okay. I, I was thinking a little bit genre and a little bit like ticking off through directors. And I was like Quarrel and that is what spoke to me. I think it's a movie that we've never, like, we've never done an episode about, but that is referenced all the time on this show.

• 43:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 43:52Amanda Dobbins?

  So that was another reason?

• 43:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think there, there is a contingent of people.

• 43:59Sean Fennessey?

  Who have said that it is the perfect movie of the century. You know, that it is like that collision of great script with a great idea with the right actors. And this, you know, relatively innovative style, very Spielbergian in some ways.

• 44:15Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think it would be my choice.

• 44:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Say more.

• 44:23Sean Fennessey?

  I think E2 Mamma Tambien probably says more about what's great about him as a filmmaker, which is that when he is like very connected to character, his movies work better for me. And the spectacle movies are very cool and I appreciate them. I like gravity quite a bit.

• 44:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 44:42Sean Fennessey?

  But that's a very, kind of a weak script, you know, it's a very stand in script. And Children of Men feels very schematic relative to a lot of post apocalyptic movies. It feels like it's like riffing, whereas E2 Mamma Tambien just feels like it is happening in front of you. And I think he has the ability to do that. I think he can, he's weirdly done a good job of that in like, in a Harry Potter movie, which is also eligible.

• 45:06Amanda Dobbins?

  But not, but yeah, we didn't put that down.

• 45:09Sean Fennessey?

  We didn't. You wouldn't put Prisoner of Azkaban on the list. Many, many people would consider it.

• 45:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And once again, I encourage them all to open Letterboxd accounts or Google Docs accounts. And make their own lists.

• 45:22Sean Fennessey?

  Would you put Roma on the list?

• 45:26Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, I have not revisited Roma since 2018 and I,

• 45:33Amanda Dobbins?

  that was an unforgettable viewing experience for me. And I did get to see it, unlike most people, in like a beautiful Netflix theater, you know, with the sound and everything. And I was just completely shredded by it. I wonder how it would play now at home. Then does that matter?

• 45:51Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. I own it on, on Blu-ray if you'd like to borrow it.

• 45:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 45:54Sean Fennessey?

  It's in the Criterion Collection.

• 45:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, it is. Good for, good for them. Okay.

• 45:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Netflix, to their credit, licenses their movies to the Criterion Collection. We've recently learned that Apple will not be doing that. And it does not seem as though Amazon has much interest in doing it anymore either. For example, Killers of the Flower Moon will not be getting a 4K release anytime soon in America. Which is just.

• 46:14Amanda Dobbins?

  But it will internationally?

• 46:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's already been released in Italy.

• 46:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you own that?

• 46:17Sean Fennessey?

  4K. I don't. I was waiting because I assumed that Criterion was swooping.

• 46:22Amanda Dobbins?

  In Italy?

• 46:23Sean Fennessey?

  I do. I think it's already out of print, but I would take it. A lot of Americans were like, they'll never put this out. And so they bought it right away. And I held out. You know, you know who owns it? Tracey Litts. Okay. I, my heart says it to my matombian. And that, that also raises the sex quotient.

• 46:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. And we do like that.

• 46:41Sean Fennessey?

  We do.

• 46:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm open to that.

• 46:43Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Uh, we'll come back to it. One car, why?

• 46:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Speaking of romance.

• 46:47Sean Fennessey?

  You put in the mood for love.

• 46:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I know, I know, I know.

• 46:50Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not gonna fight.

• 46:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:51Sean Fennessey?

  The sequel.

• 46:52Amanda Dobbins?

  All right.

• 46:53Sean Fennessey?

  2046.

• 46:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 46:54Sean Fennessey?

  Is eligible.

• 46:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I've heard, I've, I've read your tweets.

• 46:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's interesting. Um, I read your tweets. Um, I think in the mood for love is no brainer. I think that will probably be in the, certainly in the top 10. Um, you wrote the act of killing.

• 47:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I think at this point.

• 47:09Sean Fennessey?

  I've got a bad taste in my mouth, having just seen Joshua Oppenheimer's, uh, the end, which is not, I didn't like very much.

• 47:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Once again, let us set the scene. This is a list that I made on date night.

• 47:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 47:21Amanda Dobbins?

  In Palm Springs.

• 47:21Sean Fennessey?

  Drunk full of steak.

• 47:22Amanda Dobbins?

  With a cocktail. Did I have a steak? Uh, I probably did.

• 47:27Sean Fennessey?

  Mr. Lion, if you don't get a steak.

• 47:28Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I was just trying to think of like where I was in like my life journey at this. And I, yeah. I, I had a steak. Uh, I just thought to myself documentary and then that was, I was like, that's the type of film. And then that's the first one I wrote down.

• 47:43Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's the one that you find on a lot of these lists.

• 47:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Okay, well, you've written some others. I, some of them I like. And some of them respectfully are television shows.

• 47:55Sean Fennessey?

  Right, so I wrote down OJ made in America and The Last Dance.

• 47:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Incredible, incredible. And one of them did win an Oscar?

• 48:03Sean Fennessey?

  OJ made in America won the best documentary.

• 48:06Amanda Dobbins?

  So I guess that that it means that it's eligible. But.

• 48:10Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe because I am thanked in the credits of OJ made in America, we should not include it. I just like to send my love to Ezra Edelman, whose Prince movie is not allowed to be released.

• 48:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Which sucks.

• 48:19Sean Fennessey?

  Which is terrible.

• 48:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Though maybe they'll work that out.

• 48:22Sean Fennessey?

  And I still haven't seen it and I would like to.

• 48:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It's March right now.

• 48:24Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, they're not gonna work it out. I think it's officially, I think Ezra's like doing interviews about how it's never coming out.

• 48:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, that's true, but you know, you never know.

• 48:31Sean Fennessey?

  You never know. Um, I love Sarah Polley's stories we tell. I love Amy, Asif Kapadia's Amy Winehouse documentary. I put all the beauty in the bloodshed.

• 48:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Incredible movie.

• 48:45Sean Fennessey?

  Which was one of my, I think it was in my top five of the year it came out. And I put Errol Morris as the fog of war.

• 48:52Amanda Dobbins?

  This is a, this is a really good one.

• 48:55Sean Fennessey?

  Now, where we're at on the cut down list, which we're not even talking about yet, I didn't have room for a doc.

• 48:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Sean Fennessey?

  Which is testimony to this. The fog of war, though, you know.

• 49:05Amanda Dobbins?

  It's essential. Yeah.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  That's a big one.

• 49:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Sean Fennessey?

  That's a big one. That's Robert McNamara being confronted by Errol Morris and kind of like illuminating the US Department of Defense's experiences in strategy over a 40 year period, particularly the Vietnam War. So pull red circle next to that one, a little red dot.

• 49:30Amanda Dobbins?

  We can circle several of them, except for The Last Dance, which I loved so much and it really got us through the pandemic.

• 49:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's great. It's terrific. It's a TV show. Yeah. It's a TV mini series.

• 49:40Amanda Dobbins?

  The iPad when it's about to, this is really, really good.

• 49:44Sean Fennessey?

  He innovated a whole new way of making, so many documentaries use the iPad technique. I'm just like, hey, look at this thing that happened to you 12 years ago. Comedy, you wrote Superbad.

• 49:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I did.

• 49:55Sean Fennessey?

  I was fully on board with this. I wrote Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy underneath it as the goofy Apotavian era of comedy.

• 50:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 50:09Sean Fennessey?

  I pivoted to Anchorman.

• 50:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's fine with me.

• 50:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so we don't even need to debate that.

• 50:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that I put Superbad down because I have a very, I have a clear memory of seeing Superbad in theaters, packed house. Everyone screaming and crying and laughing. And also I was with my then boyfriend, who was just very high. And I was just like trying to navigate him through like a loud experience.

• 50:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 50:37Amanda Dobbins?

  So, you know, it was like my own Superbad within a Superbad. But Anchorman is extremely funny. I would also accept Step Brothers, but.

• 50:45Sean Fennessey?

  I would as well.

• 50:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but Step Brothers feels like the cool pick and Anchorman feels like the true pick.

• 50:53Sean Fennessey?

  I, I don't, the thing, honestly, the thing I like about Anchorman is that there's like a real female character in that movie. There's like not a lot of good female characters in a lot of these movies.

• 51:01Amanda Dobbins?

  That's very true.

• 51:01Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I guess Emma Stone kinda, sorta, but she's basically a sketch in Superbad. She's great.

• 51:06Amanda Dobbins?

  She's wonderful.

• 51:07Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Christine Applegate actually has a lot to do and is like essential to Anchorman. Um, okay.

• 51:14Sean Fennessey?

  Whiplash? Now you wrote Whiplash.

• 51:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, because I, this is a group project.

• 51:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. You like Whiplash?

• 51:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, sure does. You know?

• 51:23Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, I don't know. Listen, um, I know, I do really like it and it is also, I find it, no, no, it's incredible movie. What it's about is a little annoying to me and just like a, all you men need to calm down sort of way, you know? Uh, but no, it's a great film.

• 51:44Sean Fennessey?

  Got it. Um, La La Land?

• 51:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I, as you know, love La La Land.

• 51:49Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it's good. Uh, Babylon?

• 51:52Amanda Dobbins?

  I weren't, I, I love you guys and it is really good, but no.

• 51:57Sean Fennessey?

  Bob, Babylon?

• 51:58Speaker 02

  I don't think Babylon, uh, really falls into this list.

• 52:02Amanda Dobbins?

  You wanna do First Man?

• 52:04Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, First Man would be the real cool guy.

• 52:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Sean Fennessey?

  That would be the like, you know?

• 52:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And that is also about like, you like men need to get your shit together.

• 52:12Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 52:13Amanda Dobbins?

  But.

• 52:13Sean Fennessey?

  What are you talking about?

• 52:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh.

• 52:15Sean Fennessey?

  Sometimes you have to go to space.

• 52:17Amanda Dobbins?

  You're just a bunch of boys. It's like, at least a literal quote in that one, you know?

• 52:22Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's very self-aware.

• 52:23Amanda Dobbins?

  And that la, no, it's good. It's good. And that last scene of them, it's just really,

• 52:29Sean Fennessey?

  How far apart we really are, you know?

• 52:31Speaker 02

  I don't think we really want the Damien Chazelle movie where he's like, I got it all figured out, guys. I'm really content.

• 52:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  You know? I think we want the, the messiness.

• 52:38Sean Fennessey?

  Completely agree. That's why the Evel Knievel movie is a great idea.

• 52:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Sean Fennessey?

  Another tortured soul. Um, I don't think Whiplash is gonna make the long, the shortlist, which is really hard for me.

• 52:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's.

• 52:50Sean Fennessey?

  If you'd like to know what, what Whiplash means to me, there is a rewatchable. It's probably my most vulnerable rewatchable.

• 52:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Great, because you did it with Bill.

• 52:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Amanda Dobbins?

  So it is like, uh, speaking of psychological experiments and speaking of, it's like, the content is good, but I have some notes about the emotions between the two of you. It's fine. You've worked it out. I'm grateful. I'm grateful to both of you.

• 53:11Sean Fennessey?

  And your art, your life sometimes.

• 53:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. You're, you're wonderful men.

• 53:16Sean Fennessey?

  Mad Max Fury Road.

• 53:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Sean Fennessey?

  I don't really think there's much of a debate here.

• 53:20Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 53:21Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 53:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm just sort of like, if, if Steven Soderbergh says it's the, the best action movie ever made, then we, on this podcast,

• 53:29Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh.

• 53:30Amanda Dobbins?

  we respect Steven Soderbergh, at least in that we honor his opinions about other movies.

• 53:34Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I want to come back to it in a minute. So Tar comes next.

• 53:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 53:38Sean Fennessey?

  We're one day away from recording a Cate Blanchett Hall of Fame episode. I haven't revisited Tar yet. I might watch it tonight. But it feels like it's going to be really high on our list.

• 53:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah. Well, we're doing a Hall of Fame, right?

• 53:55Sean Fennessey?

  No, no, I mean, on this list, like on 25 for 25.

• 53:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we both want it to be really high on this list, but on the list that you have put together, it's not on it.

• 54:05Sean Fennessey?

  I know. So I don't know.

• 54:07Amanda Dobbins?

  But I, I'm. So there are, there are two movies from 2022 that are definitely the most exhilarating movie going experiences I've had in the last five years. And neither is currently on the shortlist. We don't have anything after 2019 on the list right now.

• 54:24Sean Fennessey?

  That's correct.

• 54:25Amanda Dobbins?

  So.

• 54:26Sean Fennessey?

  Let's keep going.

• 54:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 54:28Sean Fennessey?

  Mission Impossible Fallout, another action movie.

• 54:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 54:32Sean Fennessey?

  Another sequel.

• 54:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 54:33Sean Fennessey?

  Are we being redundant with Mad Max Fury Road and The Dark Knight by including Mission Impossible Fallout and perhaps even Top Gun Maverick, which you have on the list next?

• 54:46Sean Fennessey?

  This is a lot of sameness.

• 54:49Sean Fennessey?

  They're not, they're not the same movies, but the energy and the experiences are kind of the same.

• 54:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I hear you.

• 55:00Amanda Dobbins?

  But then I think we have to jettison Mad Max Fury Road.

• 55:03Sean Fennessey?

  I'm.

• 55:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we can't not have, okay, we, I mean, we can pick between the Tom Cruise, Tom Cruise.

• 55:12Sean Fennessey?

  I think we will have to.

• 55:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I know that we have to do that, but I think if you just, if you want to like get rid of action movies.

• 55:19Sean Fennessey?

  I don't want to get rid of action movies. I think it, it re, it re raises the question of the Nolan choice.

• 55:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I'm not putting Oppenheimer on this.

• 55:29Sean Fennessey?

  Why? What's wrong with Oppenheimer?

• 55:31Amanda Dobbins?

  The third hour is what's wrong with Oppenhauer. Robert Downey Jr. is what's wrong with Oppenheimer.

• 55:37Sean Fennessey?

  Many people disagree.

• 55:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 55:39Sean Fennessey?

  Myself included.

• 55:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and the Academy. So how do you feel?

• 55:43Sean Fennessey?

  How do you feel about a Nora's win? You know, like sometimes the best movie wins. What can I say? I don't, you know, this is just what's happening. You're 40. Deal with it.

• 55:52Sean Fennessey?

  Top Gun Maverick, I don't think is gonna make the cut.

• 55:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I just.

• 55:56Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not saying it's not important to you and your family.

• 55:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And also to this show and to cinema.

• 56:03Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 56:04Amanda Dobbins?

  In 2022, it's like, do you remember, like, we were down bad. We were down so bad as a global community. And then Tom Cruise

• 56:17Amanda Dobbins?

  was like frankly stubborn and I disagreed with him about how long he made us wait to see that film. And then we went to see it. And I, it was my first movie back in theaters after having knocks.

• 56:33Amanda Dobbins?

  It was like the, you know, the world opened up to me and to everyone else.

• 56:40Amanda Dobbins?

  And that shit is beautiful. And do I tell my son the story of Top Gun every single night before he goes to bed at his request? Yes, I do. And when he says that, he means Top Gun Maverick.

• 56:51Amanda Dobbins?

  The first line is, there once was a pilot named Maverick. Sometimes I substitute in other people and he's like, no, Maverick. So yes, it is of outsized importance to me, but in, in terms of blackbusters, in terms of people going to the movies, it like deeply, deeply important. And it works. Like it just, it is like a blockbuster machine. But it works and a three-year-old can understand what's going on. And, you know, his grandfather can sit with him and also be like, ooh, you know, when, when Tom Cruise tells the air boss, who is Jon Hamm off. So it's, it's a beautiful movie.

• 57:30Sean Fennessey?

  Let me pitch a theory at you.

• 57:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 57:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's The Force Awakens for people who are addicted to movie stars.

• 57:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 57:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, you don't need to say it like that.

• 57:41Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I'm just, just, just think about it. Just think about it. It's giving you a lot of what you, what feels comfortable, what feels good, what feels familiar, gussied up a little bit with some new technology.

• 57:51Amanda Dobbins?

  They flew all of those planes.

• 57:54Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh.

• 57:56Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, I'm just putting that out there.

• 57:58Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely, definitely.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  It's just a much better movie, even if you don't come into it with a context than The Force Awakens. Like, it's just much more entertaining and it's much more well crafted, especially like how the script actually translates to the screen.

• 58:09Sean Fennessey?

  I, I'm not, I'm not saying it is equal to The Force Awakens. In terms of the experience that it's giving you, though, there's no invention. It's a, it's a, it's a, press the pleasure button.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  But do you remember when he throws the rulebook in the trash, though?

• 58:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. You know what? That is, that is part of the story. Every night, that's part of the story. I say, we, and then he throws the rulebook in the trash and everyone goes, "Oh," but it's okay because he knows the rules. That is part of the story of Top Gun. It ends before they have to do any death-defying, uh, like, you know, bombings.

• 58:41Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a huge fan of Top Gun Maverick.

• 58:42Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine.

• 58:42Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not saying I'm not. I-

• 58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I understand that it's probably not going to go on, but I think that you are being a little snooty.

• 58:49Sean Fennessey?

  I, I am.

• 58:49Amanda Dobbins?

  And at a time where I don't, I was just very kind about many of your films. And I was like, you do-

• 58:55Sean Fennessey?

  You were really rude about Silence.

• 58:56Amanda Dobbins?

  You do, no, I was not.

• 58:59Sean Fennessey?

  You said this is what men need to do.

• 59:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I am, and I made space for it. I held space. And then I said, "Thank you for everything Silence did for Andrew Garfield." I have given you a lot of your choices without-

• 59:12Sean Fennessey?

  These were all your choices. We're going through your, we haven't even gotten to my picks yet.

• 59:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Because sometimes I do the work in a group project, okay? So this is a discussion.

• 59:24Sean Fennessey?

  Moving on, Maverick is teetering on the edge, just for the record.

• 59:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, we all know.

• 59:29Sean Fennessey?

  The Royal Tenenbaums.

• 59:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:32Sean Fennessey?

  Which I think now has to go in because Hackman passed away.

• 59:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. But I put it on the list before.

• 59:37Sean Fennessey?

  You did. And it would have been my choice as well.

• 59:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, because, uh, Rushmore is not eligible.

• 59:43Sean Fennessey?

  Correct. Rushmore is pre-2000. Rushmore, my favorite, Wes Anderson. It would have been hard for me to convince you to do Rushmore anyway. We probably would have netted it to Tenenbaums regardless.

• 59:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I believe on our Anderson rankings that I did win the Tenen, with Tenenbaums. It was a, it was a stand, stand up.

• 59:59Sean Fennessey?

  You don't win. It's not, this is not a competition. This is a collaboration.

• 1:00:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Persuaded you to put Tenenbaums at number one.

• 1:00:08Sean Fennessey?

  So we're gonna go Royal Tenenbaums.

• 1:00:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:12Sean Fennessey?

  Astrid City, Grand Budapest Hotel, my beloved Boon Rice Kingdom.

• 1:00:18Sean Fennessey?

  You love, I love dogs. That's your fave.

• 1:00:21Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but Fantastic Mr. Fox is also really big in my house.

• 1:00:24Sean Fennessey?

  Another 2007 entrant. Lots of 2007 movies here.

• 1:00:28Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I mean, Tenenbaums is essential.

• 1:00:32Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. I'm not gonna argue. I think it's pretty much the choice. Melancholia.

• 1:00:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:39Sean Fennessey?

  This gets you kiki.

• 1:00:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Sean Fennessey?

  Again.

• 1:00:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:00:43Sean Fennessey?

  Do we need two kikis? Interesting question. Melancholia happens to be a big favorite of mine as well. I can't, I, there can't be very many Lars von Trier movies you have time for. I'm not saying that judgmentally, like, it's really not your speed.

• 1:00:55Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but this one is so my speed that it makes up for the rest. I mean, this is just like an incredible movie about

• 1:01:06Amanda Dobbins?

  depression, hating other people, and the end of the world.

• 1:01:11Sean Fennessey?

  That is kinda what every Lars von Trier movie is about?

• 1:01:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but this one is also stars Kirsten Dunst at like a perfect wedding.

• 1:01:17Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm. Now, that, that's.

• 1:01:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And Alexander Skarsgård.

• 1:01:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's what drags it over the line for you, I believe.

• 1:01:23Amanda Dobbins?

  You know.

• 1:01:24Sean Fennessey?

  The other eligible von Trier movies, just for the record, would be Dancer in the Dark, Dogville, Mandalay, the crazy sequel to Dogville, starring a different actress, Antichrist, which would be just straight up hilarious if we put Antichrist on the list. Nymphomaniac, parts one and two.

• 1:01:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:01:43Sean Fennessey?

  And The House That Jack Built, which is about a serial killer played by Matt Dillon.

• 1:01:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:01:49Sean Fennessey?

  Lars von Trier, extremely controversial figure. Some might say problematic.

• 1:01:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:53Sean Fennessey?

  Definitely a genius level film director.

• 1:01:57Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a good choice. I'm surprised by how few European filmmakers are gonna end up on this list, which we will get to momentarily.

• 1:02:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:02:04Sean Fennessey?

  This would be at least a push in that direction, you know, given that.

• 1:02:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, we said when we announced this project, we will continue to remind everyone that we are two children raised on Hollywood, so.

• 1:02:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but I think we'll do a pretty good job ultimately with Asian cinema on this list and not so good with European, which is kind of fascinating.

• 1:02:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:02:26Sean Fennessey?

  Anyway, um, all right. You mentioned that there's no way that Brokeback Mountain is gonna end up on the list.

• 1:02:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Sean Fennessey?

  But you wrote down Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

• 1:02:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:02:37Sean Fennessey?

  Speaking of Asian cinema, Asian American cinema. I, I don't think I could find a spot for Crouching Tiger when I did my cut down list.

• 1:02:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:46Sean Fennessey?

  But maybe we should? Is it weird to not have Ang Lee here, two time best director winner?

• 1:02:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I do think that my thought process was Ang Lee, what Ang Lee movie should go on. Sense and Sensibility is not eligible, and then I went straight to Crouching Tiger. Which was like hugely influential, a huge phenomenon.

• 1:03:09Sean Fennessey?

  Huge.

• 1:03:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Really introduced like Asian cinema to like a huge.

• 1:03:16Sean Fennessey?

  I would say to like art house Oscar crowd. I would say like that kind of elegant wuxia.

• 1:03:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Sean Fennessey?

  When you're paying style of filmmaking, coming on the heels of The Matrix and it being like a kind of the, the version of it that would play at the Angelica, you know?

• 1:03:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Sean Fennessey?

  And Ang Lee synthesizing a lot of those 50, 60s and 70s movies. And then also the like action hero Hong Kong stuff of the 90s. So I, I really like it as a pick and I really like this movie. This movie is definitely a big deal to me when I was just a.

• 1:03:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally.

• 1:03:51Sean Fennessey?

  College student getting interested in the Academy Awards.

• 1:03:54Amanda Dobbins?

  There is also like a timing aspect to it.

• 1:03:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, I didn't, I guess I didn't think too hard about this when I was doing the cut down list, but let's just keep going because I, Crouching Tiger is a big deal for sure. Ang Lee's got a lot of interesting movies in the last 25 years. One of the problems with him is that he always acts, he always does something different. He's like, I'm gonna do the Hulk, just kidding, I'm doing Taking Woodstock, just kidding, I'm doing, what's the crazy movie with Jewel and Tobey Maguire, the Western that he did? You know, like he's always doing something that you don't, anyway.

• 1:04:22Sean Fennessey?

  You wrote 25th Hour.

• 1:04:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I did.

• 1:04:25Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, this is one of my favorite movies of all time.

• 1:04:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:04:27Sean Fennessey?

  So I'm obviously not going to argue with you about it. But I did write down Inside Man.

• 1:04:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I also love to film Inside Man, but we only get one Spike.

• 1:04:38Sean Fennessey?

  And I would say that the bulk of the top 10 Spike movies are in the 80s and 90s.

• 1:04:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Correct.

• 1:04:43Sean Fennessey?

  There's not a ton from the last 25 years that you would put up there with the very best.

• 1:04:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Sean Fennessey?

  25th Hour is one. Inside Man is probably the one right behind it.

• 1:04:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:04:53Sean Fennessey?

  What comes after that?

• 1:04:56Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, is it Black Klansman? I guess Bamboozled would be the other choice.

• 1:05:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Might be Black Klansman.

• 1:05:05Sean Fennessey?

  I would, I prefer Bamboozled to Black Klansman, but I think if you were looking at like consensus choices, that's one of the few that really broke through in a big way. Maybe, maybe that'll change when Highest to Lowest comes along. We shall see.

• 1:05:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, the other thing that Inside Man gets you is Denzel.

• 1:05:20Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good point. And is he not represented here anywhere?

• 1:05:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Well, yeah, no, it's tough.

• 1:05:26Sean Fennessey?

  Eek. Okay, we'll get to that.

• 1:05:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:05:29Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Mulholland Drive.

• 1:05:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, gotta do it.

• 1:05:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:05:33Sean Fennessey?

  I wrote Twin Peaks The Return, which is the television program.

• 1:05:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's, first of all, that's a television program. Second of all, there's a podcast called The Watch where they just, they talk about that all the time.

• 1:05:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. What about Inland Empire? This is deeply unpleasant.

• 1:05:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It's Mulholland Drive.

• 1:05:46Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Mulholland Drive, continuing on. The Lost City of Z. Now, I liked this pick. I would really love to find a place for my buddy, James Gray.

• 1:05:53Amanda Dobbins?

  As would I, and this is my, my pick of the James Gray, but I do also, The Immigrant is obviously very good and celebrated and two lovers, as you know. Needs a lot to me.

• 1:06:04Sean Fennessey?

  That's one I like a lot as well, for a variety of reasons. Um, you get Joaquin Phoenix, I get Vanessa Shaw.

• 1:06:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Is Gwyneth on our list right now? I don't think so. I mean, she did obviously stop acting at some point.

• 1:06:16Sean Fennessey?

  I'm perfectly content with leaving Gwyneth off the list, but that's a spoiler that there will be, um, no Iron Man movies on our list. Uh, The Devil Wears Prada.

• 1:06:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I mean, you know, I was just. Writing some moms, you know, Amanda stuff, some cocktails.

• 1:06:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:06:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I think a hugely influential movie that people don't really.

• 1:06:35Sean Fennessey?

  I don't have a lot bad to say about it.

• 1:06:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Um.

• 1:06:37Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not really here to denigrate The Devil Wears Prada. I don't think it's among the 25 best films of the century.

• 1:06:41Amanda Dobbins?

  But in terms of like blockbuster or just big budget movies that make money starring women.

• 1:06:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Amanda Dobbins?

  That are like well-made, still quoted, kind of in the consciousness, I think like explained fashion to like a lot of people, um, which whatever you think about it, it's like a multi-trillion dollar business. Um, and

• 1:07:09Amanda Dobbins?

  it's also, you know, it's not a rom-com, but there are so few movies that get made starring major women actors that are not romantic comedies that it's notable on its own. Also, it's hugely important to me, but.

• 1:07:25Sean Fennessey?

  All very strong points and valid, but I will not take away from you.

• 1:07:28Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine. But it doesn't have to go on. It's just good.

• 1:07:31Sean Fennessey?

  Margaret, Margueret.

• 1:07:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Sean Fennessey?

  Not Manchester by the Sea?

• 1:07:38Sean Fennessey?

  Not You Can Count on Me? If we're talking about the Kenneth Lonergan oeuvre?

• 1:07:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, you, you can write them both down.

• 1:07:46Sean Fennessey?

  Well, all three of them would be in my personal canon.

• 1:07:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. But, but Margaret's also sort of my, in my personal canon, too.

• 1:07:52Sean Fennessey?

  All three of them like absolutely pulverized me.

• 1:07:56Sean Fennessey?

  And

• 1:07:58Sean Fennessey?

  Margaret, you know, I lent some guy my Blu-ray copy and I just never got it back and it's still missing.

• 1:08:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Do I know who this guy is?

• 1:08:07Sean Fennessey?

  You do. I won't say his name.

• 1:08:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:08:10Sean Fennessey?

  And I'm, I'm mad about it.

• 1:08:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Does this, does this guy not know where it is?

• 1:08:14Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. We don't speak anymore.

• 1:08:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, interesting. Oh, wait, now I think I know who it is. LOL. That was your choice. Um.

• 1:08:23Sean Fennessey?

  I'm disappointed and it's, and it's out of print. It's out of print and it costs like $80 on eBay now.

• 1:08:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I think, okay, well, I know what I can get for Christmas.

• 1:08:34Sean Fennessey?

  I love Margaret. I, uh, I don't know where it ended up on my list the year that it came out. That was when I read around when I first started doing those yearly hundred lists, or at least publishing them. Um, I think it's the right choice, but I struggled to find a place for it on,

• 1:08:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Sean Fennessey?

  on the big list. A lot of movies that start with the letter M on these lists.

• 1:08:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so we're not doing alphabet theory, at least.

• 1:08:55Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

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• 1:10:42Sean Fennessey?

  The Bourne Identity.

• 1:10:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:44Sean Fennessey?

  I say no.

• 1:10:45Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine.

• 1:10:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's good. I think there's a little overrated.

• 1:10:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Of course, we're here. He would support me.

• 1:10:52Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I, I went with a different Doug Liman movie as my potential, which would be Edge of Tomorrow.

• 1:10:56Amanda Dobbins?

  It's also good, but.

• 1:10:57Sean Fennessey?

  We already have Mission Impossible Fallout, and then I think Top Gun Maverick in second place, so that's not gonna make the cut either. Hereditary, I'd like to say thank you for that.

• 1:11:04Amanda Dobbins?

  You're so welcome.

• 1:11:05Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 1:11:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, that was another one I said when I sent you. I said that you could, you should do more foreign, more animated, more, um, horror, and more documentary if you wanted.

• 1:11:19Amanda Dobbins?

  You did it. Well, did you?

• 1:11:20Sean Fennessey?

  Well, when we did the cut down list,

• 1:11:24Sean Fennessey?

  you did something

• 1:11:26Sean Fennessey?

  interesting.

• 1:11:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Sean Fennessey?

  And I want to go to it and we'll circle back.

• 1:11:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:11:30Sean Fennessey?

  But you made a list called, Are We Being Too Cute or Not Cute Enough by Ignoring? And these were the films that you listed. Hereditary, Margaret, Top Gun Maverick, Uncut Gems, which is, as of now, is not on the top 25, and The Master.

• 1:11:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:48Sean Fennessey?

  Now, this is like one big fat Amanda pick right wedged in between four Sean picks.

• 1:11:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, but.

• 1:11:56Sean Fennessey?

  And I, I know you like Margaret, but you know what I'm saying.

• 1:11:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I, but I think, so what I mean by this, so I added this category because as I previously mentioned, you have a category that's much longer than mine, uh, titled, These Would Make the List More Well-Rounded and Less Predictable. All right, I'm just gonna read a few of them.

• 1:12:14Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:12:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Fish Tank, all-timer, incredible movie, also on every list.

• 1:12:19Sean Fennessey?

  It is. It is on every, a lot of these lists are like 100 movies long.

• 1:12:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Ye, old boy, Drive My Car, Burning, A Touch of Sin, Talk to Her.

• 1:12:28Sean Fennessey?

  I do have The Lost City of Z.

• 1:12:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Lost City of Z, which I put on, um, Holy Motors, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which I, like, love, but also is now, like, the Sight and Sound, you know, like, these are all, these are all movies that are on other lists. And, and our movies are on other lists too, but the movies I identified are like our movies that are also on other lists. So that's why I put those.

• 1:12:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think the challenge of doing a show like this is trying to get out of the way of your persona and try to front your person.

• 1:13:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:13:01Sean Fennessey?

  And like, my persona is hereditary uncut gems guy.

• 1:13:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06Sean Fennessey?

  And my person is like, talk to her and Wendy and Lucy. So.

• 1:13:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. But that's not even the Kelly Riker that I would pick. So.

• 1:13:13Sean Fennessey?

  That's fine, but I'm just, I'm just sharing from my perspective.

• 1:13:17Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I've like talked myself into a bit that isn't maybe actually how I feel sometimes.

• 1:13:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Marvel is like making commercials for you.

• 1:13:25Sean Fennessey?

  I know, I know, I know.

• 1:13:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, they always were. So.

• 1:13:28Sean Fennessey?

  I know. And I'm not trying to get too meta in this conversation, but it, it is striking me that like films that like hit me hard. Like when I say like Squid in the Well is like a big deal movie to me.

• 1:13:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:38Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and that's not the cool choice.

• 1:13:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Sean Fennessey?

  Of, I don't know, Lady Bird or Marriage Story. Um, Squid in the Well is not really on a lot of best hundred movies lists, you know? And so like, I want to.

• 1:13:52Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, Marriage Story isn't really either.

• 1:13:53Sean Fennessey?

  I guess it's not. I feel like that movie is a little like got Netflixed a little bit.

• 1:13:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Sean Fennessey?

  Um, anyway, I, I, I finished going through all of the films that you recommended. And Uncut Gems, and I think Good Time is worth discussing too.

• 1:14:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:14:04Sean Fennessey?

  The, um, the previous Safdie Brothers movie. I made a whole list of additions.

• 1:14:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:09Sean Fennessey?

  Speaking to those prompts that you noted.

• 1:14:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:12Sean Fennessey?

  Um, off of your first shot. I mentioned Uncle Boone Me and then Talk to Her and Volver for El Madovar. I wrote Midnight in Paris.

• 1:14:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I do really like it.

• 1:14:20Sean Fennessey?

  Which when it came out.

• 1:14:21Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I know. I mean.

• 1:14:22Sean Fennessey?

  Huge hit.

• 1:14:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I listen.

• 1:14:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's a very good Woody Allen movie.

• 1:14:25Amanda Dobbins?

  It, it is incredibly charming. I saw it at BAM in Brooklyn and was just full of people just like chuckling along being like, I get that Hemingway joke, you know? And I was like, I was laughing too, because I got the Hemingway joke, but then I felt bad about myself. So that's why it's not on my list.

• 1:14:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's very entertaining.

• 1:14:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry, Stoll forever.

• 1:14:44Sean Fennessey?

  Riddled with controversy and doing an episode about it would be kind of a pain in the neck, to be honest. Uh, there's, I wrote down three Michael Hanukkah movies. I think you could write down six. Um, Piano Teacher, Cachet, and Amore sprung to mind immediately. I think The White Ribbons on the table there. Funny Games on the table there. There's like a bunch of movies. Again.

• 1:15:04Sean Fennessey?

  He's a, he's a me director and is like a very

• 1:15:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Sean Fennessey?

  Unsparring, withering.

• 1:15:12Amanda Dobbins?

  As you know, I, I mean.

• 1:15:14Sean Fennessey?

  You do see that in the world.

• 1:15:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I see that in the world. I have, I've seen.

• 1:15:18Sean Fennessey?

  You've seen that more. We talked about it more on the show.

• 1:15:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, more. I was like famously saw very early on Dating Zack.

• 1:15:22Sean Fennessey?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:15:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Also at Bam and just sat there across the.

• 1:15:26Sean Fennessey?

  You saw White Ribbon, I think, right?

• 1:15:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Saw White Ribbon, Funny Games. I mean, like totally fucked up, but you know.

• 1:15:30Sean Fennessey?

  That was like a very pop, funnycake movie.

• 1:15:33Amanda Dobbins?

  So, and I do tend to respond to the pop stuff more.

• 1:15:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Um, The Tree of Life.

• 1:15:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's where The Tree of Life is not on there.

• 1:15:41Sean Fennessey?

  So, we'll come back to the other two lists that I added. That are challenging, but The Tree of Life, it's gonna be hard for me to not put The Tree of Life on this.

• 1:15:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I think, I mean, I think that is correct.

• 1:15:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. The New, The New World has its defenders as well. I'm not as fond of The New World, but the Malik heads love that one. Um, I wrote two Edgar Wright movies, Shaun of the Dead and Scott Pilgrim versus the World. I think these are very big picture movies. Um, and they represent something in the culture that is sort of like self-awareness, but not at the expense of craft. That I really like in modern movies, that I think only a few directors know how to do well. Edgar Wright is one of them. Obviously Spirited Away will almost certainly be the representative for Miyazaki. I would, Bobby, I would welcome any other additional recommendations you might have from Miyazaki. I also find that kind of the 90s and 80s stuff is the most resonant for me with him beyond Spirited Away. Which is not to say that the movies in the last 20 years are bad, but you find Totoro and.

• 1:16:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Porco Rosso.

• 1:16:40Sean Fennessey?

  Porco Rosso, sure. Howl's Moving Castle, like you find that those movies kind of come up more in the all timers.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  Well, Howl's Moving Castle is 2004, I believe. And that's, that's one, that's beloved, kind of like in my generation. Ponyo is beloved too, but I don't think it is striving to be as quite.

• 1:16:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, feels more slight compared to the others.

• 1:17:02Speaker 02

  Yes, definitely. I mean, my personal favorite is Mononoke, but that is 1997, I believe, so it's not eligible here. I think that Spirited Away, where he landed is probably the only one that would fall in consideration here.

• 1:17:15Sean Fennessey?

  Spirited Away is on the Sight and Sound list, right? Where did that land? Can you look that up, Bob?

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:17:21Sean Fennessey?

  Um, you mentioned Edward Yang's Yi Yi. Pan's Labyrinth?

• 1:17:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:17:28Sean Fennessey?

  Guillermo del Toro's.

• 1:17:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. That's probably his. I know The Shape of Water won Best Picture, but I feel like it's his most celebrated movie. Sully? There's no Clint Eastwood on this list.

• 1:17:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Sean Fennessey?

  Would you pick Sully? What would you pick?

• 1:17:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I do really like Sully. I'm, what else is post?

• 1:17:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry.

• 1:17:49Sean Fennessey?

  The Mule? Would you go with The Mule?

• 1:17:51Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I was just remembering. Richard Jewell? So I want to say in 2020, uh, the New York Times critics did a best movies of the 21st century. And I swear to God, A O Scott put Million Dollar Baby at number three. And that, that's just like a real thing that happened.

• 1:18:06Sean Fennessey?

  Couldn't be me.

• 1:18:07Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I was remembering when I remember the draft that we did where Chris was like sitting on Million Dollar Baby and Blockbuster at the last minute or Oscar or something.

• 1:18:17Sean Fennessey?

  I do remember that. Yeah.

• 1:18:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I would not pick Million Dollar Baby.

• 1:18:20Sean Fennessey?

  I wouldn't either.

• 1:18:20Amanda Dobbins?

  At number three or at any other.

• 1:18:22Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's Sully.

• 1:18:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I like Sully a lot. I saw that at the Vista.

• 1:18:30Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, nice. Um, okay.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Spirited Away, by the way, is 75 on the latest Sight and Sound poll.

• 1:18:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's a little lower than I would have guessed. I would have guessed top 50. Probably next time around when there's more young Miyazaki heads are voting. Uh, okay. Quickly through the rest of this list. Meeks Cut Off, the other Kelly Wright, one of the other Kelly Wright car movies, Hell or High Water, um, which I think is still very widely appreciated. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, directed by your fave Andrew Dominic. Steve McQueen's Hunger? Did not put 12 Years a Slave?

• 1:19:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:19:09Sean Fennessey?

  You could put it if you wanted to. Could put Widows.

• 1:19:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna say, you could put Widows?

• 1:19:14Sean Fennessey?

  Arrival. Now, you did not have Villeneuve on your first.

• 1:19:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't. I was, I was waiting for you to, to make your decision. I do think that I, this is when looking around, when I realized how many of the Letterboxd kids love Enson D's. Like, and that is the number one on Letterboxd for all of them. And I was kind of like, oh, all right, kiddos. Like.

• 1:19:37Sean Fennessey?

  I wouldn't say, that wouldn't be for me. Um, my, my pick would be Sicario, but.

• 1:19:41Amanda Dobbins?

  You can, well, you could write that down.

• 1:19:46Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let's write it down.

• 1:19:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Sicario is very good.

• 1:19:48Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, it certainly is. Sicario. Um, the favorite? If you're gonna pick a Yorgos Lanthimos movie, he is one of the

• 1:19:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:19:57Sean Fennessey?

  premier directors of this time, whether or not, whether you like his movies or not.

• 1:20:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I like The Lobster.

• 1:20:03Sean Fennessey?

  That's, I do too.

• 1:20:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Sean Fennessey?

  And I think that would be a good pick for this list.

• 1:20:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  I don't have it on the cut down list, but nevertheless, I like where you're at. Lobster, very funny and insightful movie. A Prophet, which we will not be putting because of Emilio Perez. Um, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, you mentioned. The Raid? We have a lot of action movies on here, but The Raid, much like Old Boy, incredibly influential and a thrilling movie. Just putting it out there, following up with John Wick.

• 1:20:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Sean Fennessey?

  He, they killed his dog.

• 1:20:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And you would do John Wick over John Wick 4?

• 1:20:38Sean Fennessey?

  Probably.

• 1:20:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:20:40Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Bad Boys 2. There's no Michael Bay movie on here.

• 1:20:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'd also, uh, submit Ambulance for consideration. The L and the A are capitalized because it takes place in the city of Los Angeles.

• 1:20:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, that's a phenomenal film. Uh, Corieta's Shoplifters.

• 1:20:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Devastating.

• 1:20:58Sean Fennessey?

  Lee Chong Dong's Burning?

• 1:21:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:02Sean Fennessey?

  Christian Petzold's Phoenix?

• 1:21:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:21:05Sean Fennessey?

  Claire Denise Bautravie?

• 1:21:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:21:07Sean Fennessey?

  Now, all of those movies I just named, you find on a lot of these lists.

• 1:21:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:21:11Sean Fennessey?

  I like some more than others. Burning, that was like my number two movie of the year that year. That's a big one for me.

• 1:21:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, you guys loved that.

• 1:21:17Sean Fennessey?

  I really liked that movie a lot. Uh, what about The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring? Are we, are we really not gonna put that on? What the fuck's your problem, lady? Do you remember when that shit came out? And we were like, we did it! We got it! Peter Jackson, you beautiful bastard!

• 1:21:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:41Sean Fennessey?

  That was awesome.

• 1:21:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I do remember.

• 1:21:44Sean Fennessey?

  That movie is great.

• 1:21:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, they're good. They're good. I have absolutely no memory of what happens in any of them, besides like the ring.

• 1:21:49Sean Fennessey?

  Fly, you fools!

• 1:21:50Amanda Dobbins?

  And then, and like, you know, and I know, my precious. And my mother, for some reason, is not aware of The Lord of the Rings.

• 1:21:57Sean Fennessey?

  Barely in it.

• 1:21:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And calls both my children, like, my precious. Like, that is what her, and I'm just like, this is fucked up, ma'am. Like, someone needs to...

• 1:22:05Sean Fennessey?

  Tolkien, right from what he knew.

• 1:22:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Anyway. I mean, sure.

• 1:22:10Sean Fennessey?

  Don't just throw your hands up because we're an hour or two here. We're talking about the fellowship of the fucking ring.

• 1:22:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Not gonna make the long list, but that is cool. I would put, what was the nine hour? Peter Jackson Beatles movie?

• 1:22:24Sean Fennessey?

  Get Back. That's a TV show. A Separation, Asgar Farhadi's very, very upsetting movie. Wally? We haven't even talked about Pixar yet.

• 1:22:32Amanda Dobbins?

  There's no Pixar on this.

• 1:22:33Sean Fennessey?

  Ratatouille?

• 1:22:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:35Sean Fennessey?

  Don Hertzfeld's Such a Beautiful Day. Big one for me.

• 1:22:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:39Sean Fennessey?

  Now, I wrote Call Me By Your Name and you responded with a bigger splash.

• 1:22:43Amanda Dobbins?

  A bigger splash.

• 1:22:44Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if either are gonna make the cut. We'll get there.

• 1:22:47Sean Fennessey?

  Hero? And Donnie Darko. That was, now, this was just the first round. We're just done with the first round. Now, we're gonna get, we're gonna do 30 minutes of nitty gritty here.

• 1:22:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:22:55Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, we're gonna do some, some listing. Now, my next act was during Sundance Weekend.

• 1:23:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:23:04Sean Fennessey?

  Two stone cold hours.

• 1:23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Sean Fennessey?

  Of chiseling rock. I took all this raw material and I went mining for the truth.

• 1:23:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:23:14Sean Fennessey?

  Now, do you think I should say where the list stands right now at this juncture? And then we can bang through some more of it?

• 1:23:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, because we might reorder a few things.

• 1:23:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Amanda Dobbins?

  This is your proposal. So this is.

• 1:23:28Sean Fennessey?

  And you were not like offended by this?

• 1:23:30Amanda Dobbins?

  This, no, I wasn't offended by it. I wanted, there are some, some things I want to discuss with you.

• 1:23:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:23:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But, and maybe some alternate films for the filmmakers. And maybe a couple of things we need to squeeze in.

• 1:23:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'm open to all those things.

• 1:23:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I just want to note that this is the edited list because the first list you sent me was quickly followed by, wait, I just realized that There Will Be Blood is not on this. To which I said, you can take Almost Famous off and put There Will Be Blood on. So that is, that is the cut that I made.

• 1:24:00Sean Fennessey?

  I did do that.

• 1:24:01Amanda Dobbins?

  And I will, and I'm sorry to all of you and to Cameron Crowe.

• 1:24:06Sean Fennessey?

  I'm gonna start this by reading the hard cuts. These movies don't appear on the list right now. These are, these, for me personally, these were really, really, really hard cuts.

• 1:24:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:14Sean Fennessey?

  AI. There's no Steven Spielberg on the list right now.

• 1:24:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought that you would pick Minority Report.

• 1:24:19Sean Fennessey?

  I thought about it, but it just, too much cruise, too much action, too samey.

• 1:24:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:24:23Sean Fennessey?

  Even though Minority Report is great. Whiplash.

• 1:24:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. It's, that was your choice?

• 1:24:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's hard out here. I did it. Almost Famous.

• 1:24:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I took it.

• 1:24:31Sean Fennessey?

  You were a brat. I don't appreciate that.

• 1:24:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not a brat. It's, it's a good movie.

• 1:24:35Sean Fennessey?

  I love Cameron Crowe.

• 1:24:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it my favorite Cameron and Crowe movie? No, it's not. So.

• 1:24:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a very important film.

• 1:24:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

• 1:24:41Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Superbad. Hard cut.

• 1:24:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:44Sean Fennessey?

  We love Superbad. Moonlight. Hard cut.

• 1:24:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:47Sean Fennessey?

  We didn't talk in the first round about Certified Copy, but I would say that that is in, that to me is, we don't talk about that movie that much on the show, but that is in a similar realm of, this is really important and good.

• 1:25:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:25:01Sean Fennessey?

  Um, we would never do Certified Copy on the rewatchables, but it would be a great movie to kind of like take apart together on a show.

• 1:25:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Agree.

• 1:25:08Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Tar. Didn't make the cut. Arrival didn't make the cut.

• 1:25:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I know, but did Sicario make the cut?

• 1:25:14Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's not on there right now.

• 1:25:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but.

• 1:25:17Sean Fennessey?

  And Wally. So maybe if you wanna, we can put Sicario right next to it and say.

• 1:25:21Amanda Dobbins?

  So Wally is your Pixar pick?

• 1:25:23Sean Fennessey?

  Wally is my Pixar pick, but it's not making the cut.

• 1:25:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:25:26Sean Fennessey?

  There is no Pixar movie on the list right now. There's no Spielberg on the list. There's no Denis Villeneuve on the list. There's no Luca Guadagnino on the list.

• 1:25:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, which is very upsetting to me.

• 1:25:39Sean Fennessey?

  There's another movie that I thought of that is resonating in culture right now called Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, because what Severance is doing is so deeply riffing on Eternal Sunshine, almost to the point of frustration for me personally, but Brokeback Mountain is not there. Francis Ha is not there.

• 1:25:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. There's no Noah Baumbach.

• 1:25:59Sean Fennessey?

  There's no Noah Baumbach. Although, obviously, he, I feel like Lady Bird, you know?

• 1:26:04Amanda Dobbins?

  That, no, stop it. No, they are, they are independent people making their own art and we can honor both of them.

• 1:26:12Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely. I'm sure, I'm sure he never read the script before she went and made the movie. Um.

• 1:26:18Sean Fennessey?

  Let's just read the list.

• 1:26:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, you don't.

• 1:26:20Sean Fennessey?

  You want to keep going?

• 1:26:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, there's no Steven Soderbergh on this list.

• 1:26:23Sean Fennessey?

  There's no Steven Soderbergh. Ocean's Eleven is eligible.

• 1:26:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I know that.

• 1:26:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's eligible.

• 1:26:28Amanda Dobbins?

  It, I know.

• 1:26:30Sean Fennessey?

  And it's not here. Uh, The Tree of Life, there's no Terrence Malick.

• 1:26:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry, I was just thinking about Chris Ryan and UNESCO sites. The way you said that was the way that.

• 1:26:40Sean Fennessey?

  What did he say?

• 1:26:41Amanda Dobbins?

  He was talking about Nolan making The Odyssey and he's just like, he's, they're honoring UNESCO sites. He's honoring them and it's just really funny.

• 1:26:49Sean Fennessey?

  Did you see the photo of Tom Holland on a Viking ship with Nolan that?

• 1:26:53Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:26:53Sean Fennessey?

  Came out today? Yeah.

• 1:26:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow.

• 1:26:55Sean Fennessey?

  Just go to like whatever Christopher Nolan updates.

• 1:26:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Tom Holland Odyssey, let's go.

• 1:26:59Sean Fennessey?

  Uh.

• 1:27:00Amanda Dobbins?

  First images on the set of I Found Chris's Blog. And there it goes. Okay, so Chris Nolan, I guess they have to wear life jackets if they're not.

• 1:27:10Sean Fennessey?

  I think so. When they're making the film, yeah, they gotta be safe.

• 1:27:12Amanda Dobbins?

  That's funny.

• 1:27:13Sean Fennessey?

  They're not performing.

• 1:27:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:15Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, the Love and Basketball is not on the list. Didn't come up on the first batch. That's kind of a tough one.

• 1:27:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:20Sean Fennessey?

  Birth?

• 1:27:21Amanda Dobbins?

  No Jonathan Glazer.

• 1:27:22Sean Fennessey?

  No Jonathan Glazer on the list right now. No Zone of Interest, no Sexy Beast.

• 1:27:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Birth would be our pick. It would be my pick.

• 1:27:28Sean Fennessey?

  I would be comfortable negotiating to Birth.

• 1:27:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:32Sean Fennessey?

  But not giving Birth.

• 1:27:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, no.

• 1:27:33Sean Fennessey?

  I'll never give Birth. Except to the birth of ideas.

• 1:27:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:37Sean Fennessey?

  On this show.

• 1:27:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:27:39Sean Fennessey?

  A Star is Born. It never came up.

• 1:27:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I know my limits. I know I gotta pick my battles.

• 1:27:45Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:27:46Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I love that movie. I recently, I, I don't remember what movie that I was, that I was searching for. But there was a Mom Will Love This pack of movies. You know how sometimes like when you're?

• 1:28:00Sean Fennessey?

  On, on digital.

• 1:28:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, digital and they like, we'll sell you a bundle. And it was like.

• 1:28:04Sean Fennessey?

  And it was funny games.

• 1:28:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Valentine's Day. No, and it was like four Gary Marshall films and A Star is Born, the Bradley Cooper version. And I was like, this is rude.

• 1:28:14Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, you know, these are your people, so. Uh, no Michael Honeck on the list.

• 1:28:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:28:22Sean Fennessey?

  No bridesmaids on the list.

• 1:28:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, I'm fine with it. I, I know it was like incredibly important.

• 1:28:29Sean Fennessey?

  No Kenneth Lauterian.

• 1:28:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women can make money.

• 1:28:33Sean Fennessey?

  The Lord of the Rings didn't make it.

• 1:28:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:28:35Sean Fennessey?

  I don't feel good about it.

• 1:28:37Amanda Dobbins?

  All right. Well, we can discuss it.

• 1:28:38Sean Fennessey?

  No Werner Herzog.

• 1:28:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:40Sean Fennessey?

  Furthermore, no documentaries.

• 1:28:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Well.

• 1:28:43Sean Fennessey?

  Other missing Americans of note.

• 1:28:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Go ahead.

• 1:28:45Sean Fennessey?

  Clint Eastwood.

• 1:28:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:47Sean Fennessey?

  M. Night Shyamalan.

• 1:28:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:48Sean Fennessey?

  Sam Raimi.

• 1:28:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:50Sean Fennessey?

  Todd Haynes.

• 1:28:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:51Sean Fennessey?

  No Damian Shazell or Barry Jenkins. No James Gray, no Safdie's, no Ari Aster, no Robert Eggers, no Soderbergh, as you mentioned, no Sarah Polly, she's Canadian. No Denis Villeneuve, he's Canadian. No Michael Bay, no Richard Kelly, no Noel Baumbach, no Catherine Bigelow. We didn't even talk about The Hurt Locker or Zero Dark Thirty. For a variety of reasons. Kelly Reichart also not represented here.

• 1:29:17Sean Fennessey?

  Only one European director.

• 1:29:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's Lars von Trier.

• 1:29:20Sean Fennessey?

  And it's Lars von Trier.

• 1:29:21Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really weird.

• 1:29:22Sean Fennessey?

  So that means Almodovar not represented, Yorgos Lanthimos not represented, Paul Verhoeven, Celine Siama, Thomas Winterberg, the Dardens. Ken Loach, Pavel Pavlikowski, didn't mention Ida or Cold War. No Mike Lee.

• 1:29:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:37Sean Fennessey?

  No Paolo Sorrentino, no Belatar, no Mia Hansen Love. No Olivier Assais. No Edgar Wright, no Luca Guadagnino.

• 1:29:49Sean Fennessey?

  No Jonathan Glazer.

• 1:29:50Amanda Dobbins?

  We are also using European in the pre Brexit sense.

• 1:29:55Sean Fennessey?

  Fair, fair point. Not European Union, the continent of Europe. Right?

• 1:29:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I think so.

• 1:30:00Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Four Asian directors represented on this list. I won't say who they are because we'll go through the list momentarily.

• 1:30:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, everybody else knows.

• 1:30:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Cause they've been listed.

• 1:30:10Sean Fennessey?

  I'm just, I'm giving them, I'm giving them the mind state of where we are now in the process. We're having the meeting.

• 1:30:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:30:16Sean Fennessey?

  So based on what we just talked about, no Ang Lee, no Zhang Yimo, no Abhishek Ramani. No Li Chongdong, no Hoshao Shen, no Satoshi Khan, no Asgar Farhadi, Jafar Panahi. Wang Bing, John Woo. Rice Gahamaguchi. Edward Yang, Takeshi Kitano, Hong Sang Su.

• 1:30:40Sean Fennessey?

  Gia Chanka, like, none of these-

• 1:30:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Listen, 25 is not a lot.

• 1:30:45Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. One Mexican director is represented. It's Alfonso Cuarón.

• 1:30:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:30:49Sean Fennessey?

  We'll get to that in a minute. Which one, we don't know. No Del Toro, no Iñárritu. Lol.

• 1:30:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I mean, one of those was foreseeable.

• 1:30:58Sean Fennessey?

  We did not mention Iñárritu at all. Also a two-time Best Director winner, like Ang Lee. Carlos Regadas not represented, Alonso Ruiz Palacios not represented, Robert Rodriguez. No South American or African directors.

• 1:31:13Sean Fennessey?

  I blame you.

• 1:31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:31:15Sean Fennessey?

  So, I think Lucrecia Martel and Zama is the movie that you most see on the lists. I've just not, never been a big Lucrecia Martel fan. Adam Naiman is a tremendous fan of hers. If you want to read, great writing about her work. He has done a lot of it. You know, no Fernando Marías, no Pablo Lorraine, many other South American filmmakers that we're not talking about on this list. One Australian. So it's just George Miller. No Peter Jackson and no Baz Luhrmann. You fought tooth and nail for Moulin Rouge, and I said no.

• 1:31:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Peter Jackson is from New Zealand, just to be clear.

• 1:31:50Sean Fennessey?

  New Zealand, excuse me.

• 1:31:51Amanda Dobbins?

  You're talking Australia, the continent.

• 1:31:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:31:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, did your child recently learn-

• 1:31:55Sean Fennessey?

  No shots of the Kiwis. I respect the Kiwis.

• 1:31:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, no, I know, but I'm trying to-

• 1:31:59Sean Fennessey?

  I respect New Zealand. You're absolutely right about that. Now, on this list, there's only one Best Picture winner.

• 1:32:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. I think we feel right about that.

• 1:32:06Sean Fennessey?

  There's only one comic book movie. There's only, I wrote down one action movie, but that's not right. That's wrong. There's three action movies. There's only one horror movie.

• 1:32:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:32:17Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know how I feel about that.

• 1:32:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I, as I said, this is a negotiation.

• 1:32:22Sean Fennessey?

  Three sequels.

• 1:32:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:32:25Sean Fennessey?

  And these are the years that are not represented on the list. You mentioned that there were no films after 2019, which is true to this moment. Then no movies from 2005, 2012, 2014.

• 1:32:35Sean Fennessey?

  Weak years? Or just other years were that much stronger TBD? Now, there's a whole host of major stars.

• 1:32:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Sean Fennessey?

  We talk about on this show all the time that are not a part of this list. Among them, Ryan Gosling, Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence, Bradley Cooper, Cate Blanchett, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman, Denzel Washington. We could go on. There are many, many other stars who are not a part of this list. So anybody who's out there saying you guys are star fuckers. You only like Ben Affleck movies and J Lo documentaries. I got news for you guys. The greatest story never told, not on the list.

• 1:33:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you seen that yet?

• 1:33:13Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:33:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:33:14Sean Fennessey?

  And I will not. Um.

• 1:33:17Amanda Dobbins?

  There's a whole part where Ben Affleck is like, look at all these cameras and explaining cameras to Jennifer Lopez.

• 1:33:21Sean Fennessey?

  I love Ben. I got mad respect for Ben.

• 1:33:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Town, not on this list.

• 1:33:25Sean Fennessey?

  Mallrats, banger.

• 1:33:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Argo, not on this list.

• 1:33:29Sean Fennessey?

  Phantoms, he was the bomb in Phantoms, yo. Like, he's just the man. Okay. Uh, let's do the list.

• 1:33:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:33:36Sean Fennessey?

  This is where it stands right now. I'm not saying this is where it's gonna end.

• 1:33:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:38Sean Fennessey?

  This is where we. What I hammered out and you basically more or less accepted. But now the, the final, final steps begin.

• 1:33:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I said, put a pin in it and roll the cameras.

• 1:33:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so number, I'm gonna start right now because I like, we have to talk about it. And we have to explain it.

• 1:33:59Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:33:59Amanda Dobbins?

  So number 25, you have Michael Clayton.

• 1:34:02Sean Fennessey?

  I wanted a cool episode to start.

• 1:34:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, that's what I was gonna explain. I know that. I understand, like, Jesus Christ, okay?

• 1:34:10Sean Fennessey?

  We're having the meeting.

• 1:34:11Amanda Dobbins?

  But I know the rules. We're opening up the meeting to everyone else. Yeah, when you make a list, you gotta grab people in with something up top that they A, wanna listen to or wanna like, interested in.

• 1:34:22Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:34:22Amanda Dobbins?

  And B, like, also make them a little mad. So many people, myself included, might recoil at the idea that Michael Clayton is as low as it is. But I think it's a great kickoff. And I, you know, the rate scale and it's, and also George Clooney.

• 1:34:37Sean Fennessey?

  We don't have to explain every pick, but I do think these key moments are right, the right ones to explain.

• 1:34:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:34:44Sean Fennessey?

  You wanna keep going?

• 1:34:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. So at 24, we have The Handmaiden, which it seems like maybe you wanna change it to Old Boy. You only have a couple of weeks.

• 1:34:52Sean Fennessey?

  I might wanna change it.

• 1:34:53Amanda Dobbins?

  And if you change it, does it change the ranking?

• 1:34:55Sean Fennessey?

  I really like The Handmaiden too. No, it doesn't. I think this is like a good spot for Park Chan Wook. I think it's a good spot for either of these movies. So it's not that big of a deal. I don't know, man. I'm like kind of eager to return to The Handmaid in because I haven't seen it in a while.

• 1:35:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you?

• 1:35:10Sean Fennessey?

  Whereas old boy I have seen recently.

• 1:35:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Have you watched the Park Chan Wook Little Drummer Girl yet?

• 1:35:15Sean Fennessey?

  No. I watched the first 23 minutes twice. The first time I tried to watch it and then the second time. I'm just like, stop making TV shows.

• 1:35:24Amanda Dobbins?

  It's the only exception to the TV show thing. It's absolutely.

• 1:35:28Sean Fennessey?

  Just make movies.

• 1:35:31Sean Fennessey?

  Let's leave The Handmaid in there for now.

• 1:35:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:35:34Sean Fennessey?

  After that is Mission Impossible Fallout, which I feel pretty good about.

• 1:35:38Amanda Dobbins?

  He jumps out of a plane.

• 1:35:40Sean Fennessey?

  He's thrown through a bathroom mirror.

• 1:35:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:44Sean Fennessey?

  Very violently.

• 1:35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I just watched this recently.

• 1:35:46Sean Fennessey?

  Henry Cavill.

• 1:35:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Sean Fennessey?

  You know, powers up his arms.

• 1:35:50Amanda Dobbins?

  The whole motorcycle thing.

• 1:35:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the helicopter fight.

• 1:35:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Pretty good.

• 1:35:55Sean Fennessey?

  Um, Michelle Monahan.

• 1:35:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, very beautiful.

• 1:35:58Sean Fennessey?

  She's doing stuff.

• 1:35:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Vanessa Kirby.

• 1:36:00Sean Fennessey?

  Ving Rhames.

• 1:36:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:02Sean Fennessey?

  Simon Feg. If we put this movie on the list and we keep it where it is, then that's an acknowledgement of Shaun of the Dead.

• 1:36:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:36:11Sean Fennessey?

  Which is not here.

• 1:36:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, that's fine. Do you feel like, so this is also, this is an acknowledgement of Tom Cruise of franchises in a lot of ways? With one other exception. And I think that is like, that is our shared favorite franchise going.

• 1:36:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Losers like The Fast and the Furious, winners like Mission Impossible.

• 1:36:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. We didn't even discuss Fast Five.

• 1:36:39Sean Fennessey?

  Nor should we.

• 1:36:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, okay, all right, all right. I just, you know.

• 1:36:42Sean Fennessey?

  Just putting it out there. I've got some things gotta give it 22. Now, is that movie better than Fallout?

• 1:36:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I think we're sort of like, we're doing tiers, right?

• 1:36:54Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:36:55Amanda Dobbins?

  We're not doing tiers? Okay.

• 1:36:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I would say its writing is actually better than Fallout.

• 1:37:02Sean Fennessey?

  And I made a great choice.

• 1:37:03Amanda Dobbins?

  And Jack Nicholson has to be able to walk up those stairs before he can have sex, you know? And he does it. So it has dramatic action sequences. It does have a sex scene between Jack Nicholson and Diane Keaton.

• 1:37:13Sean Fennessey?

  I gotta say, sex in your 70s, that sounds challenging. Like, as my body is just totally breaking down in 43?

• 1:37:19Amanda Dobbins?

  It's also got this scene where he's like, I really, I really am, I really. I hope it happens for you.

• 1:37:26Sean Fennessey?

  Me too.

• 1:37:27Amanda Dobbins?

  And they have put a lot of medical research dollars behind making sure that that's possible for you.

• 1:37:32Sean Fennessey?

  I'm actually not worried about that.

• 1:37:33Amanda Dobbins?

  At the expense of my health, generally, so.

• 1:37:35Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 1:37:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But just like me being able to even see a gynecologist, you know, and is, is, is under, under debate. But there are all sorts of medicines to make sure you can have.

• 1:37:47Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not worried about ED.

• 1:37:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:37:49Sean Fennessey?

  I'm worried about not having functioning limbs. I mean, I might be worried about it then, but.

• 1:37:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Well, that, I mean, that's, he has to be able to make it up the stairs.

• 1:37:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Because that's when his heart is ready after his heart attack to have sex again. So, but listen, he's got Keanu Reeves, who's a doctor in the Hamptons, who believes in him. So maybe we can achieve that for you, too.

• 1:38:11Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, great.

• 1:38:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, this scene when he's running around in the hospital gown with his ass totally out. Every single time I've worn a hospital gown since that, it's like an enduring image. And then it's also like useful for a small chat with, you know, like small talk with all the nurses.

• 1:38:25Sean Fennessey?

  This is your case for something's gotta give right now?

• 1:38:27Amanda Dobbins?

  It's influential, you know? Postal grandmas, one of Diane Keaton's best performances.

• 1:38:33Sean Fennessey?

  Agreed.

• 1:38:33Amanda Dobbins?

  They go to Paris. I've been to that restaurant in Paris. They have a big sign.

• 1:38:38Sean Fennessey?

  Um, just have a sip of water, please.

• 1:38:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm out of water.

• 1:38:41Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, that explains.

• 1:38:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I forgot the jug.

• 1:38:44Sean Fennessey?

  Your manic. Um, 2021, The Dark Knight?

• 1:38:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Do you want to change it? Keep going, keep going.

• 1:38:52Sean Fennessey?

  Twenty, The Royal Tenenbaums. I feel good about this. Nineteen, Spirited Away, I feel good about this. Eighteen, Itumama Tambien. I went with this over.

• 1:39:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Children of.

• 1:39:02Sean Fennessey?

  Children of Men.

• 1:39:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess we are.

• 1:39:04Sean Fennessey?

  Made in his native Mexico.

• 1:39:06Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and thus far, we have been pretty genre heavy, so.

• 1:39:10Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm. Agreed. Now, I feel like we, I kinda jammed those up at the top. Not to get people interested in this, the opposite, really, more to just be like, let's, this stuff matters, but like, let's not get too bogged down. It is, we go down the list.

• 1:39:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:39:21Sean Fennessey?

  You can make the case that a couple of these should be flipped so that it's not so actiony near the top.

• 1:39:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:39:27Sean Fennessey?

  Anchorman at seventeen.

• 1:39:30Sean Fennessey?

  Step Brothers, Superbad.

• 1:39:34Sean Fennessey?

  The Other Guys.

• 1:39:36Amanda Dobbins?

  No, we're not gonna do The Other Guys, even though I do like it. I, I think.

• 1:39:40Sean Fennessey?

  Christine Niff.

• 1:39:48Sean Fennessey?

  Her name is Christine Niff. Get my wife's name right.

• 1:39:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's very good.

• 1:39:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Even though my instinct was Superbad, I, I do think that your Will Ferrell instinct.

• 1:40:04Sean Fennessey?

  I think there's gotta be a Will Ferrell movie.

• 1:40:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I agree with you.

• 1:40:06Sean Fennessey?

  I think he is the comic star of this century. You agree?

• 1:40:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I do. So.

• 1:40:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Step Brothers is really funny.

• 1:40:17Sean Fennessey?

  It is very good.

• 1:40:20Sean Fennessey?

  Before Sunset at sixteen.

• 1:40:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:40:23Sean Fennessey?

  I made a very strong, strong, strong move to put Inside Luan Davis at fifteen.

• 1:40:28Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm open to it.

• 1:40:29Sean Fennessey?

  Now, I thought that this would be the best I could get in terms of meeting in the middle with you, that you wouldn't go A Serious Man with me, but you would go Inside Luan Davis.

• 1:40:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that's probably right. Though, I, I think that's unfair to me and my generosity of spirit because.

• 1:40:46Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:40:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I would, in this one case, let you do whatever Conan you wanted. Cause that means something to you. And the way that you're giving me Marie Antoinette, cause you're just kind of like, you are, that's like your thing.

• 1:40:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57Amanda Dobbins?

  And if you wanna do A Serious Man.

• 1:40:59Sean Fennessey?

  They don't make movies anymore. It's very disappointing. I mean, I know, they're doing them separately, but not together.

• 1:41:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I agree.

• 1:41:04Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Honey, Don't will be out by the time we've recorded this, which is the new Ethan Coen movie, starring Margaret Qualley, your fave.

• 1:41:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I like her and she's very good at dancing, as we learned at the 97th Annual Academy Awards.

• 1:41:19Sean Fennessey?

  Completely just instantly dated this conversation.

• 1:41:23Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's-

• 1:41:23Amanda Dobbins?

  You think that listeners of this podcast won't remember the Bond tribute in December?

• 1:41:28Sean Fennessey?

  My god.

• 1:41:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And how long that took?

• 1:41:29Sean Fennessey?

  I pray I forget.

• 1:41:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well.

• 1:41:31Sean Fennessey?

  I think Inside Lou and Davis is a good pick. A Serious Man is my favorite. No Country For Old Men is great. My absolute favorite cones are in the 90s and the 80s.

• 1:41:43Sean Fennessey?

  Let's stick with Inside Lou and Davis. Wolf of Wall Street at 14. Too low? Too high?

• 1:41:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that it could maybe go at, you could flip 14 and 12. And I say that with-

• 1:41:57Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, fuck yeah.

• 1:41:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Yeah. And I say that, I say that with, and honestly, honestly, maybe you could do, maybe you could put 14 at 11, 11 at 12, 13 stays the same. Do you see what I'm doing here?

• 1:42:12Sean Fennessey?

  I do. 14 at 11, 11 at 12, and 12 at 14.

• 1:42:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:17Sean Fennessey?

  Now, now we're talking.

• 1:42:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:42:19Sean Fennessey?

  Now, we should be doing screen capture for this.

• 1:42:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Sean Fennessey?

  This is the real work.

• 1:42:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:42:22Sean Fennessey?

  So now coming in at number 14-

• 1:42:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:42:25Sean Fennessey?

  Is Moneyball.

• 1:42:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Which is one of my favorite films of all time. Do you think that this is the year that we can host a screening of Moneyball? Do you think we did it? It's the end, it's December 2025.

• 1:42:39Sean Fennessey?

  We've had many very kind programmers over the years ask us to come and program a movie. We programmed Gone Girl, Phantom Thread, what else? I'm forgetting other movies. We've done a few others. I did a bunch in, at the Frida-

• 1:42:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:42:52Sean Fennessey?

  When you were on leave.

• 1:42:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:42:56Sean Fennessey?

  And every time we say, guys, we're on Moneyball, they're like, meh.

• 1:42:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 1:43:00Sean Fennessey?

  Don't really, don't, don't think that's gonna sell.

• 1:43:06Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fantasy.

• 1:43:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 1:43:07Sean Fennessey?

  And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Moneyball. And how can you not be romantic about baseball?

• 1:43:23Sean Fennessey?

  Moneyball 14 Bennett Miller. No, I thought you were gonna ask, do you think Bennett Miller will make another movie this year?

• 1:43:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, no.

• 1:43:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I don't think so either. Um, number 13 is Get Out.

• 1:43:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:34Sean Fennessey?

  Feels like the right spot.

• 1:43:35Amanda Dobbins?

  It feels good. That's why I, that it stayed where it was and we just moved things around it. Yeah.

• 1:43:39Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, number 12, Melancholia. You've moved from number 11.

• 1:43:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:43:43Sean Fennessey?

  Because...

• 1:43:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, first of all, we had Kiki right in a row.

• 1:43:49Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, maybe I did that intentionally.

• 1:43:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I, I, I do think that the film The Wolf of Wall Street is better than Melancholia.

• 1:43:57Sean Fennessey?

  Should we put a little distance between Melancholia and Marie Antoinette? Should we move Melancholia like to number 20 and move The Royal Tenenbaums to 12?

• 1:44:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. I like that.

• 1:44:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's probably accurate, right?

• 1:44:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I like that. Yeah.

• 1:44:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let's do that. I'm still getting over only having one European filmmaker on this list, and I'm drawing attention to it in part because it just seems a little crazy to me, but, um...

• 1:44:25Sean Fennessey?

  We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out here. Okay, so then number 12 is The Royal Tenenbaums. Melancholia is a 20. I think that's better.

• 1:44:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I, yeah, I do as well.

• 1:44:35Sean Fennessey?

  Number 10, as you just gave away, is Marie Antoinette. Is this the right spot?

• 1:44:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I would also be willing to bump Wolf of Wall Street to 10 and do... No?

• 1:44:46Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:44:46Amanda Dobbins?

  You think Marie Antoinette stays at 10?

• 1:44:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:44:49Amanda Dobbins?

  That's so beautiful. Look, look at you supporting women.

• 1:44:52Sean Fennessey?

  I stand with you.

• 1:44:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Every day of the year.

• 1:44:54Sean Fennessey?

  I stand with you 100 times a year on this fucking podcast. Um...

• 1:44:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It's more than 100, I'm sorry to say.

• 1:45:00Sean Fennessey?

  This year it'll be like 130. Fuck. Uh, number nine is Parasite. Now we're in like a really tough spot. I've come covering my face and my mouth.

• 1:45:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:45:10Sean Fennessey?

  Because I'm in a little bit of pain. Marie Antoinette at 10 is good. That's a cool pick and a smart pick. These next few were very predictable, but they're all worthy. I think they're in the right order, but I could be wrong. Parasite at 9, Mad Max: Fury Road at 8, In the Mood for Love at 7,

• 1:45:30Sean Fennessey?

  Mulholland Drive at 6. These are all canonical works.

• 1:45:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:37Sean Fennessey?

  A good blend of international and American.

• 1:45:42Sean Fennessey?

  They are in genre, but like abstract genre at the same time. Social thriller, action epic, yearning romance. And I guess coming of age for Mulholland Drive.

• 1:46:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I was just gonna say David Lynch movie.

• 1:46:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Nightmare.

• 1:46:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is its own genre.

• 1:46:06Sean Fennessey?

  But it's framed as a sort of like a gal comes to town. She's trying to make it in the city.

• 1:46:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I'm sitting here trying to like be interesting and suggest a more interesting order, but.

• 1:46:17Sean Fennessey?

  Your whole job. Your entire job is to be interesting on the mic.

• 1:46:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you so much, but in this particular case, I think, I mean, you could flip Parasite and Mad Max, but I don't think that's good list making.

• 1:46:35Sean Fennessey?

  I would do it.

• 1:46:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you want to?

• 1:46:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:46:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:46:39Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good suggestion.

• 1:46:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:46:41Sean Fennessey?

  The tricky thing is like, you know, a parasite conversation is a portal to a conversation about South Korean cinema in the 21st century.

• 1:46:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:46:48Sean Fennessey?

  And the mood for love is a story is a conversation about Hong Kong cinema, what one car wide brings to the table. Mulholland Drive, we know what that conversation is.

• 1:46:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:57Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think this is supportable. I think Mad Max Fury Road, I think with movies.

• 1:47:03Amanda Dobbins?

  What is your concern? Like, what are you not saying right now?

• 1:47:06Sean Fennessey?

  There's no right order.

• 1:47:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:47:08Sean Fennessey?

  So you know, when you're doing this, you know, you're at a magazine and you're in the room and you're like not being, it's not being publicly projected. And you can stand behind the editorial voice of the publication.

• 1:47:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:47:20Sean Fennessey?

  And so your cleverness is rewarded with provocation. And this act is a little different.

• 1:47:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Because you think people are gonna be yelling at you about.

• 1:47:34Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's because I don't want to inspire provocation at the root.

• 1:47:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:47:41Sean Fennessey?

  I want to be like, this is how we feel.

• 1:47:43Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't. Okay.

• 1:47:46Sean Fennessey?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:47:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I mean, two things can be true. This is how we feel. And I also don't feel that there is a huge difference in greatness between number seven and number eight on this list. Or number eight and number nine.

• 1:48:02Sean Fennessey?

  You're probably right, but maybe it's just that I'm slowing down and thinking about it.

• 1:48:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I feel that both are masterworks of cinema.

• 1:48:09Sean Fennessey?

  Let's do Marie Antoinette at 10, Mad Max Fury Road at nine, Parasite at eight, In the Mood for Love at seven, Mulholland Drive at six.

• 1:48:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:48:17Sean Fennessey?

  That leaves us with five.

• 1:48:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:19Sean Fennessey?

  The order that I place these five movies in is as follows. Lady Bird at five, Inglourious Basterds at four, with a big fucking asterisk next to it.

• 1:48:30Amanda Dobbins?

  You have just written Once Upon a Time in Hollywood right next to it. It's not even like on a, on a different line or in a comment. It's just like right there.

• 1:48:40Sean Fennessey?

  There Will Be Blood at three.

• 1:48:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:42Sean Fennessey?

  Twenty-Fifth Hour at two.

• 1:48:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, which is a beautiful act of filmmaking. I mean, of list making and also of filmmaking.

• 1:48:50Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you. That's what I was going for. Obviously.

• 1:48:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, like, my eyebrows went up and then I was like, yeah.

• 1:48:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, okay, but not too cute?

• 1:48:57Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:48:58Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:48:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Because we both love that movie. The greatest ending of a movie of.

• 1:49:03Sean Fennessey?

  My fave. My fave. And then Social Network at one.

• 1:49:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:07Sean Fennessey?

  Which is predictable, but I think sometimes that's okay.

• 1:49:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I think sometimes you just, you need to speak the truth, you know?

• 1:49:14Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, go back to Tarantino for me. There are no bad Tarantino movies in the 21st century. There are no mid Tarantino movies in the 21st century. Everybody has their favorites. Some people like Django. Some people prefer The Grindhouse.

• 1:49:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:31Sean Fennessey?

  Experience. Some people dig Inglourious Basterds. Some people like Kill Bill Volume Two.

• 1:49:38Sean Fennessey?

  I popped Once Upon a Time in Hollywood into the old 4K player like three or four weeks ago, just to watch the first 10 minutes.

• 1:49:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and then you watched the whole thing?

• 1:49:47Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't get through the whole thing, but I was like, fuck, like I got slipped right into it.

• 1:49:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Sean Fennessey?

  And the truth is, I'm being really real with you right now. That doesn't happen to me anymore because I made this my job. It's a little bit like when you hear a beat reporter say, I grew up rooting for the New York Giants and I don't root for a team anymore because I know too much or I experienced too much. I've made movies too much of my life. Doesn't mean I don't still love movies. It just means that thing I did all the time from 14 to 30, which is like, I just gotta re-watch shit I fucking love.

• 1:50:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:22Sean Fennessey?

  I can't really get there with a lot of stuff. And this movie was so easy. Obviously, I love Quentin, love him personally, love him, you know, his movies, like all that stuff. That's all understood. But and Inglourious Basterds is a diamond, right? It's like a perfectly constructed masterwork.

• 1:50:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:44Sean Fennessey?

  But I think maybe it would be Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for me.

• 1:50:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so here's the thing. Is that I'm sympathetic to what you were saying about it becomes, the more that this becomes our job, the less we have the experience of just watching it to watch. And I think that in a lot of ways, like the essential characteristic of all of these movies are, they are movies that like get us across the hump from annoying podcaster to person who just loves watching movies. And like they are all of that quality for me. The thing is, is that both Inglourious Basterds and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood are that to me. I think they're both great.

• 1:51:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I don't know whether it's recency anti-bias.

• 1:51:36Sean Fennessey?

  I'm trying to account for this as well.

• 1:51:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know whether, I don't know. I mean, Inglourious Basterds is just, it's my favorite Tarantino. It's, I mean, it's just, it's my favorite Tarantino, full stop. Like I just, that is my pick. That's always my pick.

• 1:51:51Sean Fennessey?

  Over Pulp Fiction?

• 1:51:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Well, listen, I wasn't allowed to see Pulp Fiction when it came out in 1994 because I was 10. So you come to it later.

• 1:52:02Sean Fennessey?

  That sucks. That's tough.

• 1:52:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Listen, I'm, I'm, every day I'm persevering, you know? Every day.

• 1:52:08Sean Fennessey?

  You're so brave.

• 1:52:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm doing the work. But so I just, Inglourious Basterds, I remember seeing it. It's.

• 1:52:16Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, you can, we'll, we'll keep Inglourious Basterds. I just want it to be on the record that I agonized over this.

• 1:52:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, we have time because that at number three.

• 1:52:25Sean Fennessey?

  At number three?

• 1:52:26Amanda Dobbins?

  On the list.

• 1:52:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:27Amanda Dobbins?

  It'll be a December recording. So if.

• 1:52:30Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:52:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:31Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, you're right about that.

• 1:52:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not trying to like.

• 1:52:34Sean Fennessey?

  It's number four, but yeah.

• 1:52:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, it is?

• 1:52:37Sean Fennessey?

  And this is an interesting thing, you know?

• 1:52:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Number three is There Will Be Blood. So you could also be the master.

• 1:52:39Sean Fennessey?

  In my heart and in my mind.

• 1:52:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:42Sean Fennessey?

  These people are engaged in a, a death struggle for primacy in my heart.

• 1:52:51Amanda Dobbins?

  But these people, you mean Quentin Tarantino, Paul Thomas Anderson, Spike Lee and David Fincher?

• 1:52:59Sean Fennessey?

  Correct.

• 1:53:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:53:01Sean Fennessey?

  I would say, and so is the list too schematic and or, and answer me honestly, me, me leaning? By doing that?

• 1:53:13Amanda Dobbins?

  No, because.

• 1:53:14Sean Fennessey?

  And I'm not saying you don't like any of those filmmakers. I know you love them. But those are kind of the four that I have like organized a lot of my movie admiration around. And probably like switched me on to a ton of stuff over the years.

• 1:53:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I mean, so at five, we have Greta Gerwig. At 10, we have Sofia Coppola. Those are two of my three. We've got Nancy Meyers on the list. We, you know.

• 1:53:41Sean Fennessey?

  I think.

• 1:53:42Amanda Dobbins?

  They're, and I'm not, I'm not trying to reduce myself to like, well, I like the girls, you know, but.

• 1:53:48Sean Fennessey?

  No, but I like them too. And Greta and Sofia would have been on my list. I don't know if it would have been these movies specifically, but they both would have been on my list if I just made it by myself.

• 1:53:55Amanda Dobbins?

  The thing is, is that.

• 1:53:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Fincher, especially Fincher and Tarantino.

• 1:54:03Amanda Dobbins?

  And, well, like Spike Lee, like, I, I love these movies, like, these specific movies. And that's why I'm arguing for Inglourious Basterds instead of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I, like, I love all Tarantino movies, not in the same way that you do, but where I meet you is at these specific movies, so it's okay with me.

• 1:54:22Sean Fennessey?

  I'll, I'll roll with you on Inglourious Basterds.

• 1:54:26Sean Fennessey?

  There Will Be Blood at 3, 25th Hour at 2, and The Social Network at 1.

• 1:54:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you being a cuck by not choosing The Master?

• 1:54:35Sean Fennessey?

  No, I don't think so, because I just don't think it's superior.

• 1:54:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:54:38Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and I, I-

• 1:54:42Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't either, but I just, no, I know, you know, I'm just, I'm asking you, you know?

• 1:54:47Sean Fennessey?

  No, I, I think The Master would be a really cool pick. Um, and it would be an acknowledgement of Philip Seymour Hoffman and what he means to the century in movies.

• 1:54:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58Sean Fennessey?

  Um, but I, There Will Be Blood. I've now done multiple podcasts about the movie and written long pieces and interviewed PTA multiple times, and every time it's come up.

• 1:55:10Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, it's-

• 1:55:11Sean Fennessey?

  It's back in the news with The Brutalist, you know, so many of the themes-

• 1:55:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, so is The Master, you know?

• 1:55:16Sean Fennessey?

  True, true.

• 1:55:17Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine. We, we gotta talk about the things that I, that aren't on this list that I maybe can't live with.

• 1:55:24Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:55:25Amanda Dobbins?

  There's no Soderbergh on this list.

• 1:55:27Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Now, you could argue that if Out of Sight were eligible, or The Limy were eligible, then he would be on the list.

• 1:55:35Sean Fennessey?

  This is my thing.

• 1:55:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But that seems really, really stupid for one of the signature filmmakers of, I mean, there's also no Spielberg on this list, so like, what are we doing? You know, if, if there's no Spielberg, then there's no-

• 1:55:48Sean Fennessey?

  They operate in similar spaces to me, where their, their best stuff just wasn't at this time.

• 1:55:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:55:54Sean Fennessey?

  And it doesn't mean that it, their stuff that they made at this time wasn't great, because it was great. There's a case for The Fabelmans, straight up.

• 1:56:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:56:01Sean Fennessey?

  There is a case for it. Um, we don't have a lot of old master reflecting back on what he hath wrought. There's not, that's not really a conceit of this list. And I'm fine with that.

• 1:56:17Amanda Dobbins?

  No bomb back.

• 1:56:19Sean Fennessey?

  I'm okay with that. As I said, I know Lady Bird, he's not credited in any way, but there's some vibe.

• 1:56:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:56:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's a, it's a, it's a hard miss for us, but it's, I think it's a miss. Francis How was in my like, I can't believe we're not doing this, right? Wasn't he?

• 1:56:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Uh, no Tree of Life.

• 1:56:36Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if I can rationalize that one to myself.

• 1:56:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so what would you take away?

• 1:56:41Sean Fennessey?

  The Dark Knight?

• 1:56:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Woo, you are courting the anger of a lot of people. It's fine with me, I don't care.

• 1:56:50Sean Fennessey?

  I just think my sordid history with Nolan's stands makes this a little bit annoying, but like, I don't know, the Tree of Life is better than The Dark Knight. What are we doing here?

• 1:56:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, no, it is.

• 1:56:59Sean Fennessey?

  Bobby, any thoughts?

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  I mean, my feeling since I saw The Dark Knight on this list is that Oppenheimer should be the entry for Nolan if there is gonna be one.

• 1:57:09Sean Fennessey?

  I can't get that over the line with our, our partner in crime here.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  I know, I, I, I get that. So I don't feel as sensitive to the idea of removing The Dark Knight. Because I think it's like Nolan's third best movie this century.

• 1:57:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Are you an interstellar bro?

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  No, I'm decidedly anti-interstellar and I have caught a lot of shit for it over the years, but I've stuck to that opinion. I even went and saw it in the IMAX re-release and I still feel the same.

• 1:57:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:57:35Sean Fennessey?

  I don't hate interstellar, I just am not as over the moon for it. Pardon the pun, as so many other people, um.

• 1:57:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Listen, that's fine with me.

• 1:57:45Sean Fennessey?

  I'm doing it.

• 1:57:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Maybe, I, I feel like Tree of Life, Melancholio in a row is sort of intense, so.

• 1:57:53Sean Fennessey?

  Tough sit.

• 1:57:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, we want to, uh.

• 1:57:55Sean Fennessey?

  Let's do some finessing.

• 1:57:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:57:58Sean Fennessey?

  The Tree of Life can come after Anchorman.

• 1:58:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:58:05Sean Fennessey?

  And here's what I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some magic. Tree of Life, what year is that, that movie? Two thousand?

• 1:58:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Two thousand and ten or eleven or something.

• 1:58:14Sean Fennessey?

  No, two thousand and ten, I think you're right, yeah. Tree of Life is two thousand and eleven.

• 1:58:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:20Sean Fennessey?

  Same here as Melancholia, similar themes in reverse. Tree of Life is gonna go at 16. Before Sunset is gonna go to 18. E2 Mamma Tambien is gonna go to 23.

• 1:58:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:58:41Sean Fennessey?

  Mission Impossible Fallout is gonna go to 21.

• 1:58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:58:45Sean Fennessey?

  And I think there's balance there. How do you feel about Melancholia, Spirited Away, and Before Sunset in a row? Do we need some variation?

• 1:58:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, how do you feel about something's gotta give? Mission Impossible Fallout, Melancholia, Spirited Away, Before Sunset, all in a row?

• 1:59:01Sean Fennessey?

  Cool movies.

• 1:59:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, great movies.

• 1:59:03Sean Fennessey?

  Those are all cool movies and they're all different. They all elicit a different kind of conversation. I think Melancholia and Spirited Away are a little bit vibes-wise the same.

• 1:59:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:59:13Sean Fennessey?

  The Spirited Away pod will be fascinating.

• 1:59:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you wanna flip? No, I think that's good. I mean, you could flip Before Sunset and Spirited Away, but...

• 1:59:22Sean Fennessey?

  Is the Handmaiden and E2 Mamma Tambien two sex-forward at the bottom?

• 1:59:29Amanda Dobbins?

  And then something's gotta give.

• 1:59:31Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. Sex abounds. It's kinda sex month.

• 1:59:34Amanda Dobbins?

  And then Mission Impossible, which has absolutely no sex whatsoever.

• 1:59:38Sean Fennessey?

  But Vanessa Kirby and that leg reveal, you know, in the garter.

• 1:59:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:59:42Sean Fennessey?

  That's great stuff. She's got a knife in there.

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  If we're losing The Dark Knight, when you were concerned about it being too action-heavy, are you interested in swapping out Old Boy for the Handmaiden now?

• 1:59:53Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  To break it, not that I wanna break up the sex run necessarily.

• 2:00:00Sean Fennessey?

  I would like to leave the Handmaiden, I think. I think that's a very good idea. And I might change my mind when I re-watch The Handmaiden to prepare for the episode.

• 2:00:10Speaker 02

  I'm just here to support you guys, you know?

• 2:00:12Amanda Dobbins?

  What about...

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  I'm just here to remind you.

• 2:00:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm gonna, now that it's changed and now that we've got rid of The Dark Knight, Children of Men?

• 2:00:19Sean Fennessey?

  Aha.

• 2:00:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Aha.

• 2:00:22Sean Fennessey?

  I, ugh. Let's do it.

• 2:00:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:00:26Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Children of Men, now we don't have to worry about the...

• 2:00:33Sean Fennessey?

  Children of Men being a less good movie than Something's Gotta Give in the immediate is very funny. It's just a good bit. What's Children of Men, 2008? Okay. Okay. Yeah.

• 2:00:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yep. This feels, for now. For now.

• 2:00:51Amanda Dobbins?

  For now, you feel okay with it?

• 2:00:53Sean Fennessey?

  There will be the Nolan kids.

• 2:00:56Amanda Dobbins?

  It's on you.

• 2:00:58Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean it's on me?

• 2:00:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I just, um, I'm, I'm happy, I'm fancy free.

• 2:01:02Sean Fennessey?

  You're one half of this selection process, which is coming to a conclusion right now.

• 2:01:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I, yeah, but I, it won't keep me up at night.

• 2:01:13Amanda Dobbins?

  The thing about The Dark Knight.

• 2:01:14Sean Fennessey?

  You won't let us put Oppenheimer on the list, that's really the issue.

• 2:01:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:01:17Sean Fennessey?

  That's the best movie he's made this century.

• 2:01:19Amanda Dobbins?

  The thing about The Dark Knight that I was about to say, that also applies to the Oppenheimer, is that it's one of the great movies that you've ever seen, and then it keeps going for 90 minutes. So.

• 2:01:29Sean Fennessey?

  You did that bit, we know that bit.

• 2:01:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it's true of Dark Knight 2.

• 2:01:33Sean Fennessey?

  I, Dark Knight goes on for another 25 minutes.

• 2:01:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:01:38Sean Fennessey?

  You know my, I've said that many times before, but if they would have just cut when Heath's got his head hanging out the window, I would have been like, holy fuck, this is the best movie of all time.

• 2:01:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:50Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, okay, I, let's just hold it there, but we're gonna make some more changes, I know it.

• 2:01:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:01:54Sean Fennessey?

  Like, in the process. I'm gonna wake up one morning, I'm gonna shoot out of bed, stock, steal.

• 2:02:00Amanda Dobbins?

  So, do we get to do an addendum to this in December? Like, right now, we, what?

• 2:02:06Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I was gonna ask you guys.

• 2:02:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so we can just come in and be like, okay, here's what we did, how do we feel?

• 2:02:11Sean Fennessey?

  Michael Clayton's not changing. That's not changing. I wanna do that.

• 2:02:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I love Michael Clayton.

• 2:02:16Sean Fennessey?

  I want, I'm ready to watch it, like, tomorrow? I'm not changing that.

• 2:02:20Amanda Dobbins?

  We gotta talk about scheduling.

• 2:02:21Sean Fennessey?

  We started, we're recording these like now.

• 2:02:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that this is a great first Ted.

• 2:02:28Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let's just stop here.

• 2:02:31Sean Fennessey?

  Bob, thanks for this inspiration to have this conversation in public. I think it was very civil.

• 2:02:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it was nice.

• 2:02:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think we did a lot of work ahead of time to get us to this place, but now maybe I feel even less confident than I did previously.

• 2:02:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:02:46Sean Fennessey?

  But I like the changes that we made together.

• 2:02:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I enjoyed this process. And I feel confident. And I'm not too worried about what anyone else thinks.

• 2:02:57Sean Fennessey?

  I'm extremely happy for you.

• 2:02:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:01Amanda Dobbins?

  And I'm excited to rewatch all these movies, so that's nice.

• 2:03:05Sean Fennessey?

  And this list will have already been torn to pieces by the time this airs, so I don't even, it doesn't even matter what I say now. You will, you will know about it. I'll forward you all the emails. Thanks to Bobby Wagner for his help on this episode. He's our producer. Thanks to Gahow for filling in for Jack Sanders, who, when he returns, will have to deal with recording 25 of these episodes with us.

• 2:03:27Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks to the listeners at home for being so cool about this project. Just being very open minded and thoughtful and like really engaging and making your own lists and sharing them in good faith and good honor. Thanks to you, Amanda.

• 2:03:43Sean Fennessey?

  In theory, at this time, it's about to be 2026. You think that will be a great year?

• 2:03:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, I hope so. We need to turn things up.

• 2:03:53Sean Fennessey?

  Could use a good year. Yeah, okay. All right, well, see you next time.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

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• 2:04:36Speaker 04

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.