Elon Stops Congress, Trump's Secrets, TikTok Goes Supreme, Nvidia & Sex bots | The Tom Bilyeu Show

Welcome back to the Tom Bilyeu Show! In today's discussion, Tom and Producer Drew delve into the fascinating and controversial realm of artificial intelligence and its potential to manipulate human perception. Centered around a provocative tweet by David Sachs, the conversation explores the imperative of prioritizing "truth and safety" in AI development over mere "trust and safety" to prevent teaching AI how to deceive. Tom advocates for AI's role in maximizing truth-seeking while acknowledging the creative leaps AI can make, akin to human imagination. The discussion expands to concern over inherent biases in AI, the complexities of defining truth, and the balance between transparency and necessary government secrecy, especially in the international arena. With a touch on the intersection of gaming and AI's future, the hosts discuss Bilyeu's visionary project, "Project Kaizen," and how AI could revolutionize virtual worlds and personal interactions. They further explore the shift in public trust, the power of community engagement, and the rising influence of social media in shaping political discourse. This episode also touches on pressing economic issues, like the implications of TikTok's potential ban and ongoing stock market fluctuations, shedding light on the complex financial systems. Join Tom and Drew as they navigate these multifaceted topics, urging listeners to critically assess the evolving interplay between AI, government, and society. SHOWNOTES 00:00 Intro 01:06 Elon Kills Spending Bill 13:15 Is The Gov't Lying Okay? 22:58 TikTok Ban Uploading! 27:45 The Fed Cuts Rates 37:29 David Sachs Talks WokeAI 50:05 SuperComputer means... Sex Bots? 59:15 Is Gaming The Biggest Draw In Entertainment? CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Range Rover: Explore the Range Rover Sport at https://landroverUSA.com https://landroverusa.com/ Miro: Bring your teams to Miro’s revolutionary Innovation Workspace and be faster from idea to outcome at https://miro.com https://miro.com/ Betterhelp: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/impacttheory and get 10% off your first month Netsuite: Spend less time looking backwards, and more time on what's next. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at https://NetSuite.com/theory https://netsuite.com/theory NordVPN: EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/impacttheory Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Vanta: Get $1,000 off Vanta when you go to https://vanta.com/THEORY ********************************************************************** What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT atwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY & MINDSET PLAYBOOK AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:apple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. If you think you've seen it all, think again. Did Elon and Vivek just use X to back down the government? Are billionaires blatantly rewriting the rules of politics? Or are we the people simply making the government afraid of us again? Trump says the government knows about the drones. And ex-CIA spy Andrew Bustamante said on my own show that we should want the government to keep secrets.

• 1:29Tom Bilyeu?

  But are they keeping the right ones? AI is certainly learning to lie. You won't want to miss this one. And AI girlfriends just got real cheap, boys and girls, thanks to an unexpected sugar daddy. Power moves, hidden agendas, mind blowing tech. That's what we've got lined up for you today. So strap in, lean forward and let me know your thoughts in the comments. This is a wild one. Welcome to the Tom Bilyeu Show. I'm Tom Bilyeu and I am joined by my producer Drew, who everybody thinks routinely is a guest that I've had on and won't let speak. So Drew, welcome to the show.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  How you doing, man?

• 2:01Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm doing good. How about you?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  I'm excited. I'm nervous about what I tweet because apparently it could get vetoed if Elon Musk doesn't like it.

• 2:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta watch out for that one.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, jumping right into it. I'm sure you heard about this 1,500-page spending bill. It would have added 110 billion to the deficit. It included everything from raises to government employees, all the way to infrastructure bills, and of course, some money to Ukraine. Elon heard about it. Vivek sent out this video. Let's check out what Vivek had to say about it.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Congress is about to pass a bill that blows away your taxpayer money, but they made it over 1,500 pages long so you wouldn't read it. I did you a favor. I read it for you. It's supposed to be about keeping government operations open and providing disaster relief aid to hurricane victims, which I'm sympathetic to. But if you read the bill carefully, it contains pay raises for members of Congress, and I'm not making this up, and expansion of their federal health benefits. It contains all kinds of special interests and pork funding, including opening up a new stadium in Washington, DC. It renews the Global Engagement Center, which is a key node of the censorship industrial complex. And the worst part is, they didn't want you to know about any of it, and that's why they made this a last-minute jam job.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  The reason I'm co-headings Doge is I think we need outsiders to bring actual accountability to Washington, DC. So feel free to call your congressman and let him know how you feel about it.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Tom, what was your first reaction that the internet really vetoed a bill?

• 3:24Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it. So Marc Andreessen put out a tweet that said, "Who would have guessed that we actually needed Twitter more than we needed flying cars? That that whole famous thing about we were promised flying cars and we got 140 characters from Peter Thiel? I thought it was a really brilliant take." Now, where I think people are gonna go wrong with this is they're gonna read this as billionaires are in here mucking about with politics, but the reality is they simply brought attention to something and then left the people to make up their own mind. And being able to leverage social media to start a conversation, to get people really talking about it, is the way forward. I've not made a secret that I want AI to get fine-tuned so that it can read these bills for us and break these things down,

• 4:07Tom Bilyeu?

  because I think Vivek is absolutely correct. The reason that they make these bills as ridiculously long as they do is to make sure that you don't read them. That is all of us, left, right, doesn't matter where you are on the spectrum. You should absolutely rail against anybody that is trying to jam something through fast, knowing that you're not going to have time to evaluate its merits. So this is at, I don't know if it was Einstein that actually said it, but it's often attributed to him. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it. Very cool. And when I'm at my worst, I'm like thinking in fractals and like trying to get my arms around it, which is fine because I need to figure it out. But I know when I really understand something, I can just give it to you plain and simple.

• 4:48Tom Bilyeu?

  And what I'm hoping we're going to see between X just taking a new place in the cultural zeitgeist as where we all come together, we debate things, we bring things to the surface, we community note something if somebody's trying to spin it, whatever, so that everybody can actually get that very streamlined understanding of what something is so that we're not bamboozled by the bullshit that people are going to wrap into 1500 pages. Anybody that puts forward something that we're supposed to vote on quickly in 1500 pages should quite literally be ashamed of themselves. I'm not even saying that you don't need 1500 pages. Maybe you do, probably not, but let's, let's not argue that. Yeah. But asking people to digest 1500 pages quickly, all under the guise of, oh, if you don't do it, you're a bad person

• 5:32Tom Bilyeu?

  because people are going to go without money over the holidays. Like then put together a three-page thing that allows us to keep status quo, to hold us over until after the holidays. That's probably something you could get past. But when you try to jam through 1500 pages of convoluted nightmares that do things like create a new stadium, like how are people supposed to figure that one out? That's such a big decision. So there are many, many things in there that are worthy of debate. If I'm understanding things correctly, Congress hasn't had a raise since like 2009 or something. So, hey, it might actually be time to give them a raise, but there's going to need to be a debate around that. Like, hey, give them more money, but don't let them invest in the stock market. Or give them more money, but don't let them become, oh God, what was it?

• 6:15Tom Bilyeu?

  I just saw secular talk, I think said this on Twitter, said,

• 6:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, don't let them, oh, become, uh, not consultants. What do they call that when they get out? In fact, pull it up really fast. Go to Secular Talk on Twitter. Uh, who by the way, takes a very aggressive stance on a lot of things that I do not normally resonate with, but I love following people that I disagree with so that they can get me to look at things from a different angle.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Lobbyists.

• 6:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Lobbyists. There we go. So without, uh, letting them become lobbyists. So it's a very interesting idea to me that warrants debate. So my beef with all of this is hiding things in really long bills. That, that is egregious and that is something that I hope stops. And so seeing this moment happen where they said, hey, this is what's going on. Go vote no. Um, getting people to stop, think about it, talk about it. That's the play.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. And I have to give you credit for this because you really opened my eyes up with first principles thinking and things like that. So it's like in the year 2024, almost 2025, it doesn't take 1500 pages to say how you're going to spend money.

• 7:18Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Like, and to just think that that's the rule. You can tell that the government is being run by like these lawyer-esque tactics. How can I confuse? How can I distract? How can I rush? That is true that they're about to go on break next week and you want us to digest 1500 pages in three days. Of course, with getting all the other things done, it does have that manipulation kind of aspect into it. Um, but you, you kind of nailed it on the head. This is not a right thing. This is not a left thing. This is how the game is played. How do you feel about kind of those rules of engagement in general? Do you think that this should just now be an initiative that all bills should be one page up top?

• 7:52Tom Bilyeu?

  You're never gonna be able to do that. Like you won't be, you, you want to make things as simple as they can be, but not any simpler. And so that really is a good rule to live by. You can over simplify something. And this has been my big frustration. If you want to step in front of the camera, you really want to be a brand. Like if I'm going to teach this to people, uh, you want to be a brand. And so you really want to do, be able to break things down almost into bumper stickers. And the reason that I've resisted that and, and have paid the price in terms of the size of growth of this channel is that. The thing that makes me respect myself is giving people information that allows them to navigate the world well. Bumper stickers will make you feel better because you feel like you understand something, you can repeat it back to your friends. But it's not actually going to help you navigate the world. The world really does get messy. You really are up against the chaos machine.

• 8:37Tom Bilyeu?

  And so I get why bills are going to need to be laid out well so that we can cover the things that need to be covered. What they do as a tactic though, is they cram a whole bunch of stuff in so that people will go, oh God, we have to pass something like this is getting ridiculous. So I'm going to agree to, because I agree with 70% of this, I'm going to let the 30% slide that I hate. Because we just have to get it forward, or I didn't even know that those things were in there, but it had the one thing that I care about to get reelected. And that game is deranging. And so, understanding that there's pathology on both sides, you can make something overly complex and you can make something overly simplistic. And so, giving people the time to go through it, giving them things like AI that can go through, break it down till you hear the main points.

• 9:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Here are the citations, so you can go look at the thing that is like a trigger for you, that you really want to be aware of. Uh, giving people a chance via something like community notes to say, hey, the way the person is breaking this down, that's all spin. You, you want to let that happen, but uh, and I, this is beyond the scope of today's episode, but this is going to be a theme that we'll talk about a lot. Which is, um, the way that people want to control the narrative. This is something we talked about in the episode with Martin Gury. The reason that the whole idea of elites exists is that there are people who are smarter than you, they can think through this stuff better, just let them handle it. And we're now living in a world where you can actually just let everyone talk.

• 10:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Let the dust settle where it may, let people make decisions, some people will be confused, some people will think through this well. But you can never trust any one person to think through everything well. And the idea of the elites is these guys will always think through it well. And the thing is, COVID just showed us. It just doesn't work like that. They get ideologically captured and my bumper sticker is, they trust themselves too much. And one of my superpowers is, When I believe something, I'm gonna say I believe it and I'm gonna say it as hard as I can. But I also want people to be skeptical of me. The last thing I would want is for people to be like, hey, just tell me how to think and I'm gonna think that way. It's like, I don't even want that of myself. This is why I follow people that I don't typically agree with.

• 10:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Because I want them to give me an angle on something that I don't see. So I think the whole idea of the elites is wrong. I think trying to reestablish elites is a mistake. Martin Gury says that. You're gonna hear Sam Harris say that. I get why they want that. But I don't understand how they looked at the train wreck of COVID that we all just lived through and we're like, no, no, no, we just need to rebuild that. It's like, what the fuck? How wrong does it have to go before people go, that system, that way of doing things is wrong. It can just yield

• 11:16Tom Bilyeu?

  really toxic results. So yeah, I'd love to see people reject that. I'm not saying that X is the perfect system or that social media is the perfect system. But the second you find yourself wanting to tell other people to shut up, you're the bad guy.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. I see where you got that. And it's, I was watching Napoleon, the Ridley Scott movie recently, and they were talking about beheadings and you know, they beheaded Maria Antoinette in the beginning. And it was just so funny seeing how government used to be ran and how the government was kinda scared of the people. It reminded me of the tweet that you had about make the government scared again. And it's a bit ironic now that the government is trying to deceptively push through this bill. To your point, seventy percent of it could be sunshine and rainbows, but there is a thirty percent that is debatable. And then they spin it and they reframe the conversation as you guys are messing up government funding for people in front. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We should be telling you guys what to do, not the other way around.

• 12:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I don't wanna go back to the beheadings, but there is this, this switch.

• 12:14Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm very happy to hear that, Drew.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  But there is a switch between you work for us versus I'm telling you what you need to learn, just trust me. To your point. So it's interesting how we kinda got to the other way.

• 12:25Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, so we're going through a fascinating thing with our channel now. So for a long time, I thought of my YouTube audience as an audience. And that it worked, man. It built a multimillion dollar business and it's been great. And now what I've realized is even if it's just that the world is changing, I like to think that I'm just now seeing things from a better angle. But whether it's that or the world's changing, treating it like a community is far better. Where it's like, I want people to say in the comments what they think. Uh, when I hit a million subs, I stopped reading the comments. It was just so much bullshit to wade through about how goofy my ears look and oh, Tom looks sick. I just, uh, like it gets really old, really fast. And switching my mentality to this is a community.

• 13:07Tom Bilyeu?

  This is a community that I'm in as much as I'm, uh, trying to be a gravitational center because I am, right? I'm trying to be that thing around which the community is revolving. But I would never want to be the only community that somebody's in. And I would never want the people in the community to just shut up and take whatever I give them. I'm now in the comments every day. I'm reading, there's just too many to read them all, but I read a lot and I'm responding a lot. And that switch is the kind of switch that I want to see happen in the government in the modern era, where it's no longer, I'm an elite, you shut up, you do what I say, you're my audience. Uh, it is, I'm here to serve you. I'm in the middle of this circle for sure, but I want to have to convince you and I want to be open to being convinced by you.

• 13:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And I want you to be proud of what I represent now. As a thinker, you have to beware of audience capture. Anyway, beyond the scope of today's episode, but that's the dance is you have to be willing to stand for something. And in standing for that, you get this community around you. But at the same time, you have to understand that this is a two-way street. It is a feedback loop. You cannot become captured by it so that you're just telling the community what they want to hear. You have to be prepared to offer true leadership. Otherwise, why are people revolving around you?

• 14:23Tom Bilyeu?

  But it is a dance. You have to listen as well as speak.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it. Can we move on to that Trump quote? He said something really interesting in a press conference about preemptive strikes with Iran. And it kind of triggered our recent conversation with Andrew Bustamante. Check this clip out. Let me know what you think.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Against Iran's nuclear.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  I can tell you that. I mean, it's a wonderful question, but how can I, am I gonna do preemptive strikes? Why would I say that? Can you imagine if I said yes or no? You'd say, that was strange that he answered that way. Am I gonna do preemptive strikes on Iran? Is that a serious question? How could I answer a question like that?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  There is that point of, we want this transparency. X is trying to get people to be honest with us. But you do have to kind of hold your hand a little bit. So where is that line, you think?

• 15:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Man, this one's tough. So there's no universe in which you can play the game of international power relationships. And remember, at the international level, there is only anarchy. There is only anarchy. And people will take from you what they can take. And failing to understand that, because we're living in this period of just unprecedented prosperity and safety. People forget that there are people that will kill you and take your shit. So dude, the, the, this is why I wish more people would read history. Like when you really read what has happened throughout history, like Genghis Khan.

• 15:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Whoa, that will curl your hair, dude. It is terrifying. And when you understand, that's people today as well. Like, that's not some long ago thing. That's just, we have built this international order that holds things more or less in check. But it is a game of power. And when you are weak, people will take advantage. And so when you're playing the international game of power and anarchy is the only rule, then you can't play your hand. Like even though you may want to communicate to your people, the second you're telling your people what you're gonna do, then your adversaries are gonna hear that and they're gonna. Be able to adjust accordingly and and plan ahead and deal with that. So you really do have to keep some things a secret. Do I think you have to lie?

• 16:44Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know, man. The honest answer is I don't know if you have to lie. I do know that you're gonna have to to keep secrets. And I'm very glad that I'm not in the position of being the person that has to make that decision. But I'm not willing to plant a flag and say at the government level that you aren't gonna lie from time to time. But when I see something like the drones going on, then I get really unnerved. Because this is one of those things that you've at at a minimum. You've got to come out and say, we know what they are. You're gonna have to trust that we're doing the right thing. Because the more times that you spin a story that we later find out is inaccurate. This is exactly how you erode your credibility as the institutions, as the elite.

• 17:28Tom Bilyeu?

  And so there has to be some level of you have to earn trust over time. In fact, thinking about it, that that is the play. Now, how you do what I'm about to say, a huge question. But you've got to earn trust and then cash in on that trust. And so if you come out and say, listen, we are well aware of the drones. We will take the right actions to keep you safe and prosperous America. And so right now, I'm just gonna ask that you trust me. Now, the problem is if you have abused that trust as many times as they have, now you've got a problem. But the reality is, we are in a. Is it fair to call it a cold war? It probably is.

• 18:10Tom Bilyeu?

  We are in what is either a true cold war with China or we're about to be in a true cold war with China. And so there is gonna be a lot of spying and intel and all that stuff. And back in the eighties, the stakes felt really high. So there was a level of trust that you extended to the government. And it's just been so eroded, man. We've just, over the last four years alone, it's just been so weird, so many lies. And the thing I always come back to is why do they lie so much? Like, there are times that they will just tell a lie that is so blatant that like. My eyebrows rolled back into the back of my head. And the one that just got me where I was like, wait, like this is that out in the open is,

• 18:52Tom Bilyeu?

  masks don't work. So if you could just save them for the frontline workers, that would be great. So I was like, which is it? Do masks not work? Or do we need to save them? And so I would much rather they come out and say, look, masks are what we believe right now, we're going to save lives. These people on the front lines, please do the right thing. Let me feel patriotic that like, I'm doing it. That yeah, I'm going to take that risk so that these people who are fighting for all of us, because it could be my mom or my dad that gets sick. And I want to make sure those guys are taken care of. Now I can feel good that like, I'm, I'm on the team. I got it. I get what I have to do. But if you lie to my face, I'm like, what the actual fuck? So I started asking, why do they do that? And here is the horrifying answer, Drew. Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 19:37Tom Bilyeu?

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• 20:19Tom Bilyeu?

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• 21:04Tom Bilyeu?

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• 21:48Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, let's pick up where we left off. And here is the horrifying answer, Drew. It works. It works. The reason people manipulate is people are manipulatable.

• 22:00Tom Bilyeu?

  And so now we're in a game where it's like, people are going to do what they're going to do, not realizing that they're burning their own credibility. They're creating this own sense of chaos. And so, I mean, this just loops back around to that elite thing where it's like, we have to have institutions, we have to have elites that we can trust. Wouldn't that be nice? And so if they can get back to that where I actually can trust them, then yes, I will trust them. But if they act in a way that I can clearly see is not in my best interest, that they're treating me like a fool, uh, I'm not. And so when that happens en masse, you've got problems and people have to remember for better or worse, baby, we are right now, America is the fucking country. And so if we want to look at this as an individualistic society versus a collectivist society, America

• 22:41Tom Bilyeu?

  versus China, then hey, I know what side of that I'm on. And these two things are going to come to a head and we're going to see which of those works. But we are an individualistic society and so you have to deal with us as such. And to pretend that you can suddenly just cram us into a collectivist shoot. Ooh, it's not gonna work.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I'm conflicted though, cuz it's... The one example I could kinda think of is one time, um, my nephew was, uh, visiting me and my daughter. We were hanging out. My nephew loves like Hershey chocolate bars.

• 23:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Don't we all?

• 23:15Speaker 01

  He grabbed a Hershey chocolate bar, gave it to my daughter. She loved it. We went to the store. She was asking me for Hershey chocolate bars like every other day. After a while, I was like, "No, you can't have any. Why can't I have any?" "Well, if you eat too many of these, you're gonna get juvenile diabetes and it's gonna be a whole big thing." And she literally from that moment like stopped eating candy for like three weeks. And one time I like brought one home, like, "Here, I got you this." And she like looked at it nervously and was like, "Well, I don't wanna get that." And I was like, "Oh, like, in me telling her the absolute truth, it, it kind of hurt her in the short term, so now she ran away from candy." Now, RFK is probably applauding in the comments, like, "Yes, that's the right answer." But there is this line of "we can't be too truthful because it might scare our citizens to go the other way." So it would've been better for me to be like, "Because I said so, I'll get you some later."

• 23:58Speaker 01

  And technically, that would've been a lie cuz I'm withholding the information. So it's like this weird, "You have to be truthful, but you can't be too truthful because you don't want the public to overreact, but then I can't be too guarded because the public's gonna distrust me." So it's a very fine line, so I don't have like the...

• 24:14Tom Bilyeu?

  You exist in the chaos machine.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 24:17Tom Bilyeu?

  So, yeah, it, it is literally crazy. Uh, but the reality is, there you find yourself, everything is trade-offs. Thomas Sowell, shout out to Thomas Sowell, who said, "There are no solutions, there are only trade-offs." And that's just true, man. And so this is, I think you can mark the, the... Up until maybe, uh, four years ago, when it really did feel like people started waking up,

• 24:42Tom Bilyeu?

  you could paint a picture that there was this sort of utopian end that we could get to. But the reality is, I think everybody is coming to understand, this is all a trade-off. And so there's no binary right or wrong answer. There is only, "I'm gonna do this thing and get this result, do this thing and get that result, and I'm gonna test to see which one has the least downsides, the most upside." But there isn't gonna be anything that is pure upside, literally nothing. And so, once we all embrace that, in fact, if we could get everybody to... Embrace that we'd be in a much better position now it's just let's talk about the trade offs. Let's say, okay, if we do this, what are going to be the second and third order consequences? And by the way, know that we will not see this perfectly. And since I know I can't see this perfectly, I'm going to adjust if this goes wrong.

• 25:25Tom Bilyeu?

  And this brings me back to my soapbox, which I will mount, which is KPIs, key performance indicators. The government has to have them. If you're a parent, you have to have KPIs, right? So what do I want to see happen with my kids? So them feeling safe is probably a KPI that most parents care deeply about. Them feeling good about themselves is a KPI that parents care deeply about. For sure that they're going to have a hopeful future, that they are prepared to do well in this very difficult world. Okay, well, if you start doing things that doesn't yield that, then I hope that you would change direction. And if you do, wonderful, no one's going to get it right every time. And if you don't, therapy bills, therapy bills, they be coming your way.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Period.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Speaking of bills, the Biden administration wrote in April to ban TikTok. We kind of talked about it, it went under the rug. The deadline is now like upon, upon us. January 2025 will be the official date. January 18, 2025 is the official date where TikTok will get banned. Google and Apple will have to remove it from their app stores. And the 170 million Americans will not have access to it. New updates, things like that. Now, of course, if it's already downloaded, it's not going to disappear off your phone. I'm sure there's some type of backend restrictions they'll put in place, but this is affecting a lot of people, a lot of creators, a lot of small businesses. TikTok is claiming this is a violation of free speech.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  The government is claiming that this is China infringing on its rights because TikTok takes all of your information off the phone. Where do you kind of fall in on the TikTok ban?

• 27:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so China saying that this violates something, that's a little crazy. Given that they do the same thing. I know, I think at one, Google backed out of China, right? Because they were so restrictive. Can't remember where Facebook stands on that, but China just has absolutely no problem. So that one's a little wacky. I'll take umbrage with that. Do I think it violates free speech? I do not think it violates free speech because they said you can sell it to an American owner and we're good. So it's not them trying to stop TikTok from being used. It's them trying to stop information from going back to China. If I'm right, that we are either already in a cold war or racing towards one. And we know that China are what is known as a fast follower. So they're not great at innovation, not compared to the US. But they are very good at watching what we do.

• 27:48Tom Bilyeu?

  And then getting like better in terms of efficiencies on top of that. So Kai-Fu Li talked about this. He's a AI guy. I believe he is from China. I've actually had him on the show before, a long time ago. But I think that's true. It, you can really do incredible things as a fast follower. Microsoft is known as a fast follower. So Apple would innovate, Microsoft would fast follow. So I don't say fast follower as a derogatory term. But if I'm America and I know, ooh, if I can cut off their access to some of our stuff, that's probably for the best. And if the weather balloons and potentially the drones, I know nothing about what these drones are. I have literally no inside information.

• 28:30Tom Bilyeu?

  But is it very possible that it's a foreign adversary such as China using it to collect data? Of course. And if they knew they could get away with it, they would, as we would. We would map the inside of everybody's home in China if we could. Let's be really honest. And so the only thing that stops it is when you put something in place to block it. And so cold wars are marked by economic warfare, by this political gamesmanship, by all this stuff behind the scenes. I mean, this is literally spy versus spy territory when you're in a cold war. You're doing everything you can to avoid a hot war. But man, you're going at it behind the scenes hardcore. You're training hot women to go seduce people in the government and key like sectors.

• 29:14Tom Bilyeu?

  It is crazy, like even, oh God, what's his name? The Veritas guy basically just gets really attracted people to take mid, mid looking guys out to dinner and wear a low cut dress and be like, yo, tell me more about your company's secrets. It's crazy. People will be manipulated as long as they are manipulatable. And let me tell you, an attractive woman squeezes a region of a man's brain that is hysterical. Hysterical. A hot woman can get a guy, the average guy, to do the dumbest shit in the world. I will, once again, I so want to get him on the show. I feel terrible bringing this up all the time. But the fact that Jeff Bezos sent a dick pic will never cease to amuse me. Jeff, I would fall for it too, man. I'm telling you. I get it. I get it. I get it.

• 29:56Tom Bilyeu?

  If I wasn't married, I would be a right mess. But, oh, God. Anyway, all of that stuff is going to play out. It is, it's going to get wild.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Where do you think people go if TikTok gets banned? Do you think this is going to be like a mass exodus to other apps?

• 30:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, in the short term. So first of all, shout out to all the creators that are going to suffer from this. I get it. If YouTube disappeared overnight, I would not be a happy camper. But it creates an opportunity for somebody else to come along, mimic the algorithm. So whether Instagram sucks everybody up and offers new things, more TikTok-like algorithm, or just the youth flow into Instagram, but it'll probably be something new. There's going to be a lot of people fighting for this space, appealing to the kids. And I'll be interested to see if this goes through. I don't know why my brain just simply can't accept. It just could be that I'm still living 10 years ago when China was not sort of the open adversary that they become now.

• 30:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, part of me is still going to be surprised if this actually happens because it's used by so many people. But if it does, it will be a blip that will hurt a lot of creators temporarily. And then someone else will pick everybody up. It will be very temporary.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Copy that. And they have one more chance. Their case is being brought up by the Supreme Court early next year. So we'll find out by May, January, whether or not we can still TikTok.

• 31:14Tom Bilyeu?

  We will indeed.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Get those choreographs in while you still got them. All right, moving on to the economy. The Fed just announced a 0.25 rate reduction. The markets immediately sold off. The S and P 500 dropped 3%. The Fed announced that they see four quarterly cuts in 2025, two more in 2026, and one more in 2027 for our ideal rate of 3%. Right now, we're at 425. How do you feel about the rate cut and the market's response?

• 31:43Tom Bilyeu?

  So the rate cut is almost certainly because the market was already expecting it and the Fed doesn't want to disappoint. And so they needed an opportunity to cut and then communicate. And I think the the downsizing in the stocks is because they didn't like what they communicated. So in them saying basically, we don't have inflation under control yet. We're going to keep going until we get inflation under control and we're going to have fewer cuts than people were expecting. The market's like, huh, either they see something we don't, or the markets themselves see that we have a softer economy than people want to believe. But they got the Trump bump and we're looking for that moment of like, okay, here's the news. You sell the news as the saying goes. And so the news came out, people sold off, then it is to be expected.

• 32:27Tom Bilyeu?

  The thing that I find unnerving is we've had the most consecutive days of being down in the stock market since like the Great, I think even we had even more consecutive down days than we had in the Great Depression. So this has not been a great run. So then I start asking questions. Okay, what is it that investors are feeling? And I have a feeling it went something like this. Everybody knows that the economy right now is trash. This is why they voted for Trump. Everyone's like, bro, this sucks. I don't care what you say. I don't care what kind of top spin you try to put on this. Just from an everyday life perspective, this is no bueno. And so we want a new administration. The new administration, tons of excitement. They get

• 33:08Tom Bilyeu?

  voted in. We all feel the energy. You've even got Democrats who were like, look, I was sad to lose. But like even I'm kind of feeling good. Like there's just a jubilant mood that's around. I can feel it. Everybody can feel it. But that's only going to last for so long. And so it is entirely possible that the enthusiasm just couldn't carry forward to Trump actually getting in office. And so some of it may just be the natural inclination to getting accustomed to that high and then suddenly the high doesn't feel like a high anymore. And now it's like, oh, even just the couple of months that it takes Trump to take office is a long time. And so if I can get everybody to conceive of the stock market as a casino, they will be in way

• 33:50Tom Bilyeu?

  better shape. Now, it's a weird casino, though. It's a casino that has everything to do with

• 33:59Tom Bilyeu?

  The house is other people. And so now what you're betting on is how will that other person feel about the stocks that I hold? That's it. That's the whole fucking game, man. And people think there's something more going on, but I'm telling you right now, it's just a cover story. Let's see how many people I can piss off with this analysis. All right, here's how I think, this is what I think the stock market really is. Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 34:27Tom Bilyeu?

  You're probably paying two salespeople to do one salesperson's job. That's where today's sponsor Pipe Drive comes in. An intelligent AI-powered sales CRM loved by growing sales teams. Pipe Drive just launched meeting intelligence built right into the CRM. Before every call, it pulls deal history and past conversations into one brief. During the call, it records and takes notes. After it, it drafts your CRM updates to review and approve. So there's less admin and more selling. Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipe Drive.

• 35:10Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes. And we're back. This is what I think the stock market really is. All right. I've got money and I want to find a way to make my personal number go up. And I understand that the cover story is that I get ownership in your business. But think about how many people are actually playing that game. Virtually none. This is why BlackRock is so powerful.

• 35:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Because you buy stock through BlackRock and then don't pay attention at all to the fact that you actually own a piece of that business. Some people may not even realize that a lot of those stocks give you voting rights and things like that. Nobody pays attention, except BlackRock. And so they aggregate all that voting power. BlackRock is playing the cover story game. But the vast majority of humanity is just going, I have a baseball card. I have a Tesla baseball card. And I believe that my Tesla baseball card is gonna go up in value. And so I have a number in my head, and if it goes up to that number, then I sell it. Because it's just a baseball card, and it doesn't fucking matter. Now, again, I get, for some people, it matters. It's a very tiny percentage.

• 36:35Tom Bilyeu?

  And by the way, by the way, Drew, why did the people that play the game at the voting level, why do they care? Do they want better cars, Drew? No, they want number go up. They don't give a fuck. Cars, robots, muh, whatever. I have a baseball card. I'm just voting on how the motherfucker on my baseball card plays his career so that other people will wanna buy the baseball card. That's all it is. And I can bet against that baseball card going down, like I think it's gonna go down. I don't even need to own the baseball card. I'm just gonna bet against it with all the derivative stuff that people do. Once you understand that, then this game gets interesting.

• 37:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, let me really explain the cover story thing, cuz I know I'm gonna get lit up in the commissary. I at least wanna get lit up for the right reasons. I call it a cover story because if you're going to convince the government to allow you to sell these things so that you can raise capital to grow your company, you're gonna say, hey, we're the very thing that creates the GDP of the country, which is true. You want good companies. You want strong companies. Creating jobs, creating products, getting money moving around that the government then is gonna be able to tax and do amazing infrastructure things to make you the strongest country in the world so people can't fuck with you cuz at the international level, you're playing a game of anarchy, okay? Tom is not a libertarian. Tom likes government. Tom likes small government, but he likes government.

• 38:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Cool, I want you to keep me safe. I want you to protect my personal property. Yay, government. So now, that becomes a cover story. We're the people that build these companies, that generate the GDP, that allow us to be the greatest nation on earth. And the government goes, cool, I'm gonna let you sell all this stuff, let people bet for, against, up, left, down, right, sideways, all that, great. But the reality is, people have a certain amount of money in the bank account. They want their number to be higher than yours. That's it. That's the game. And once you Stop letting people obfuscate it with a bunch of fancy words and you understand what it is. Now you can engage with it or not engage with it as you see fit. The only problem is just because I can't say all this without saying the final nail in the coffin. You know it's coming. Uh, the government is stealing your money through inflation and because they're doing that,

• 38:45Tom Bilyeu?

  not only are you playing against the other players, you're playing against the ultimate house, which is the government and they will take all your money if they can. You simply need to look at what has happened to the purchasing power of the dollar in the last hundred years. It's gone down by like 99.9%. It's crazy. It's Drew. Drew, they've taken almost all of it through inflation.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  We need to do like a drinking game that every time you say inflation.

• 39:10Tom Bilyeu?

  People will die of blood alcohol poisoning. We will kill everybody watching the show, Drew. That is a terrible idea. We will kill you all, one by one.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  We shall see. You have called the stock market gambling and I've been pushing back against it. So I want people in the comments to know I'm team. I like, no, that's not it. That's not it. But the more you break it down, the more you talk about it, I do see the layer like, okay, at least now I see how you got from point A to point B. So I can respect your review perspective. If I know where it comes from, I can at least say, okay, I get why he thinks that way.

• 39:41Tom Bilyeu?

  It, it is the only way to think. It, it literally the only way to think. You'll see me to say this to, uh, the biggest names in finance and you can see it makes him a little uncomfortable. There's nothing to push back on. You are saying, I want to buy that because I think the number's going to go up. And the risk is that the number goes down. And that's why they call treasuries the risk-free yield. Because a treasury, the government, at least in like dollar terms, like if you give them a hundred dollars, they guarantee to give you a hundred back. Now, the unsaid thing is I may have to print that money and thusly steal some of your purchasing power to give you that hundred back, but I will give you the hundred back. And so that's quote unquote, risk-free. It's not all the way risk-free, but it's as close as you're going to get, especially if it's the US treasury,

• 40:23Tom Bilyeu?

  because they are the world reserve currency and so they can print and everybody else just fucking takes it. God, the more, I, I really tried to compose a killer tweet on this yesterday. And after like 20 minutes, I was like, I'm just not going to be able to say this in a cool way. But, uh, man, the reality is that this, this whole game is all about the government forcing you to become a gambler because they can inflate your money away. And that they're just, they just take your buying power. Oh, man, it really winds me up.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  It's, it's, I love how you said that too, where it's like, they guarantee they'll give you that hundred dollars back, even though you only have ninety seven dollars, like dollar purchasing power, but it still says a hundred on it and I still told you it was just free and I gave it back to you, but now you can't buy nearly as much things as you could have bought, which is why gas used to be five cents.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  All right, man. Uh, moving on, uh, AR and crypto, uh, czar, David Sachs.

• 41:18Tom Bilyeu?

  AR, AR?

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:20Tom Bilyeu?

  I think we need AI.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  AI, AI, I mean, hey.

• 41:23Tom Bilyeu?

  If he's getting into AR, I'll take it.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  We do need AR czar. Uh, rest in peace to the school shooter in, uh,

• 41:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Not the AR I was thinking about. That's hilarious. We, when we speak, we cannot help but reveal ourselves. I'm thinking augmented reality and you're thinking AR fifteen.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  I was thinking AR fifteen.

• 41:39Tom Bilyeu?

  That is hilarious. That's hilarious. That's like, people in the comments were, were absolutely smashing me in the Michael Saylor episode because I was like, Riot Games is like, uh, into mining or whatever it was, Bitcoin mining. And people were like, ah, this guy has no idea. I don't know who the miners are. Come on, bro. I, I, uh, am building a video game. Context is everything.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  All right, let's try that again. AI and crypto czar, David Sachs, sent out this banger tweet and we argued before we started the show about this. So I'm really curious to see your opinion on it, but let's read the tweet. AI models would get extremely good at deceiving humans if we teach them to lie, which is what woke AI is doing. Trust and safety should be replaced with truth and safety. For context, there was a report just released that AI models can sometimes hallucinate, which is what I am calling a very big word for lie to you. You say it's good for them to hallucinate. I already don't like AI, but you and chat.

• 42:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Really? You don't like AI? What's happening right now?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  It's trying to kill people. Character AI is trying to kill all of our teenagers.

• 42:40Tom Bilyeu?

  You are hilarious.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Chat GPT has lied to me. I gave it some therapy for it. It told me to quit my job and move home.

• 42:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Didn't it really?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  It did.

• 42:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, I hate AI now. Fuck AI. What are you talking about?

• 42:49Speaker 01

  So there's a lot of different, I have conflicting emotions with AI. But going to you, you're, you told me earlier that it's good for AI to lie to us because it's just dangerous.

• 42:56Tom Bilyeu?

  You keep saying that. You keep saying that. I never said that. Okay. Here's what I said. One, David Sachs, banger tweet. Long, longtime listener, first time caller, like, amazing. Love this guy. Uh, I think that is absolutely correct. Truth and safety is the right answer. You absolutely must have AI trained to be maximal truth-seeking, okay? You cannot have AI lie to you. That is very different than AI hallucinating. AI hallucinating, if we can tame it, could,

• 43:33Tom Bilyeu?

  could become the thing that allows AI to be creative enough to go beyond what humans already understand. So right now, AI is a synthesisation machine. So it goes, this is what humans have said. Every angle, every which way, it recognizes all the patterns inside of it. And so you can ask, hey, what, tell me about the stock market, whatever, right? And then you can ask it, hey, Tom keeps calling the stock market gambling. Why does he say that? And it will give you an answer. But then you can also say, why is Tom stupid? And then it will give you another answer. Now, it's just hitting things from different angles. And the angles that it's going to approach things are largely decided by the way

• 44:17Tom Bilyeu?

  that they are biased by the creator of that AI. Now, the biasing of AI is terrifying. Because now, once you get into an AI, if you assume everything that it's telling you is true, you really are being manipulated by the people that created that AI. Okay, I don't want that. I want people to, at a minimum, have to disclose their biases. This is how we did it. Or let's have 80,000 different AI so that we can find the way that we like to be biased, whatever. Like, humans are a biased creature. You have to have a frame of reference. A frame of reference by its nature is biased. None of us see the world accurately. But the appeal that I make to everybody is you should be looking for the truth.

• 45:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Because I literally define the truth as the thing that has the truth, not truth-like or truth approximations. The truth is the thing that has 100% predictive validity. 100% predictive validity. That's the truth. Now, the truth is very hard to find. Very hard, very hard to define. There's a famous conversation between Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson, where they literally just couldn't come to an agreement on what truth is. Okay. Whatever you think about those two, they, as far as humans go, they are able to really process data very rapidly and very well. And even they could not figure out. Keep in mind, we don't even understand the laws of physics,

• 45:44Tom Bilyeu?

  which would be ultimate literal truth, 100% predictive validity. So, given that we are not good at identifying the truth, everything is going to have a bias, everything is going to have an angle. But you should be pushing the AI to be maximum truth seeking, meaning it is seeking the answers that have 100% predictive validity. It will be hard, but that's what they should be pursuing. Hallucinations is about connections. And there is a reason that AI is best understood as a pattern-seeking machine. It finds the patterns and therefore can predict what the next character in a word should be. And that's really all it's doing. And yet it comes up with this incredible stuff that feels like logic, but it's really just giving you high predictive validity within a context. Okay.

• 46:28Tom Bilyeu?

  If we can get hallucinations to work in the same way that taking a mushroom allows people to have these really shocking insights about the world. And by the way, most of them are total bullshit. Most of the hallucinating that an AI is going to do is going to be total bullshit. But if every now and then, by hallucinating, it's able to make a leap in logic that we were otherwise unable to make that connection, because otherwise, AI is simply looking backwards in time and it's not looking forward. And I'll liken it to the Einstein saying that imagination is more important than knowledge. Right now, AI only has knowledge, it has no imagination. Now, if AI can hallucinate in the way that humans daydream,

• 47:09Tom Bilyeu?

  it might be able to do things like the thought experiment that Einstein did about being on a train that's moving at the speed of light. What would happen if you turned on a flashlight? And that gives like all these cascading insights of, whoa, what would happen? So Einstein wasn't able to reach into The past and pull out any patterns that already existed. He had a leap in logic and we live for those leaps in logic because they're the things that then, oh my God, this has more predictive validity than any of our old patterns. So at some point, AI is either gonna peter out because it will only be able to tell you the patterns in human knowledge, or it's gonna make leaps forward because it can hallucinate and make new connections between things that we had never made a connection before again, before, previously.

• 47:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And so this is why psychedelics are so pushed by many people. I've never done them full disclosure. But that's why a lot of people get excited about it is they feel like I never would have made that connection before. And it's a small percentage, but when I come back to the real world, that that percentage of of unique connections that have utility in the real world, they were worth going on this very difficult trip. Okay, cool. I'm here for that. Now, I don't know if we will ever be able to confine AI to say, oh, I am now hallucinating, I'm now daydreaming. Versus, I know these things to be at least truth approximations. And if we cannot make that definition, if we cannot know when AI is hallucinating versus when it's

• 48:35Tom Bilyeu?

  actually telling us a truth or a truth approximation, then it won't work. And now you're in a bad spot. But what I was trying to explain earlier is there's a very big difference between AI being trained to lie to me, black Nazis, and AI hallucinating, but knowingly so.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  How do we dispel the difference between those two?

• 48:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Right now, you can't, and that's why this is high risk. But there there is a bigger problem, which is people are knowingly putting their political biases into the AI. And why are they doing that, Drew? They're doing it because they, the people making the AI, believe that they are right. They believe that they see the world in the right way. They have lost sight of the fact that everything is a trade off. And they think if everybody would just live the way that I want to live, we would usher in a utopia. And I don't know how to break people out of that, man. It really freaks me the fuck out. And it seems like the smarter people get, the more they want people to listen to them. And so it is entirely possible that if I'm ever gonna add any value to the human race, it will be because I'm right on the bubble of dumb and smart.

• 49:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And so I've scared myself enough times by seeing something poorly that I'm like, woo, I cannot, even when I feel a hundred percent correct, I cannot trust myself. And then I've been right enough to know, ooh, if I push this, if I figure out the parts that are wrong and identify the parts that are right, fuck, man, I can change my life. And the difference between the path I was going down in my life before I realized I could get better. And now, long down this path of just constantly improving, constantly distrusting myself and thinking, nah, this probably isn't a hundred percent true. I can probably get a little bit better, a little bit better. Uh, obviously it's opened incredible doors financially, emotionally, spiritually, my relationships,

• 50:21Tom Bilyeu?

  just everything has gotten better. But it really is an echo of, I distrust what I believe to be true.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  I'm gonna, I, I hear you. My, my response is, alright, humans are fundamentally flawed.

• 50:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Humans make AI. So isn't it just a matter of time between, be, before the AI that the humans make is flawed? Like-

• 50:44Tom Bilyeu?

  AI is flawed already, a hundred percent.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  So we're, I think there is always gonna be this brokenness to it. And I think, I understand what you're saying in the sense that imagination is good for breakthroughs. We can't figure out how to get to Mars because there is a gap between our knowledge of physics and what, and what it takes to get there. So hopefully AI can run these simulations at a rate that the human brain can't process, so we can help us close that gap. But I feel like that's two percent of AI, where the other ninety-eight percent is a teenager Googling something and just trying to work through a problem with somebody. And if I'm working through a deep enough problem or a big enough problem, if I'm trying to figure out how to pay my taxes, or how to help me in my divorce, or I'm trying to figure out how I can get to the next level, whatever that thing may be,

• 51:29Speaker 01

  if hallucinations are added into those contexts, I'm just worried that there could be fundamental brokenness, that somebody takes something as fact and executes on it and possibly ruins their life or-

• 51:41Tom Bilyeu?

  You ready, you ready for the hard part of life? That's so far, there's no way. I'm gonna tell you what-

• 51:46Speaker 01

  History doesn't care and everybody's-

• 51:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, no, that's another point that I thought of twenty seconds ago. The greatest hits. No, what I'm gonna say is, everybody has to be prepared to think for themselves. And that's it. And you've got to take responsibility for your own life. People love to blame somebody else. And let me tell you, I've taken other people's advice and had really horrible things happen to my life. And who do I blame, Drew? I blame myself. I don't blame them. I don't want them to shut up. I don't want them to stop giving me the best ideas that they have. I don't even want to try to discern whether somebody's lying or not. Let them say whatever the fuck they want. They can try to manipulate me, all that, fine, whatever. I'm gonna call it out if I think they're lying and I'm gonna say I think this person's a liar and let their reputation take care of itself. I'm not just gonna eat lies. But

• 52:31Tom Bilyeu?

  because I don't think people are gonna be good at that, because I think that will go pathological, I just want people to say what they wanna say and then it's my job to figure out what has utility. And this is why, dude,

• 52:42Tom Bilyeu?

  skills have utility. It's one of those, I don't know how to make that land for people. Let me try it another way. You can get so good at something, people can't stop you. Elon Musk caught a 20-story building with mechanical chopsticks.

• 53:00Tom Bilyeu?

  What the fuck? Because skills have utility. They let you do a thing. We've been to the moon. We are going to get to Mars. Because skills have utility. They let you get out of the gravity well of Earth. They let you survive inside of a metal tube in space. They let you land and safely leave again. They let you

• 53:21Tom Bilyeu?

  build incredible technology. They, they bring people together from all over the world. I mean, it's the, the things that humans have done. Like if you go back 100,000 years ago, dude, just watch an episode of Alone. And you see what life alone in the wilderness, where you have to scrounge for your calories, that's where we started. And we domesticated plants and we domesticated animals. We domesticated fire. And just technology has continued to grow. It's Unbelievable. They are miracles, man. And so, yes, at the end of the day, you are going to have to think for yourself. But in thinking for ourselves and letting ideas get out there and letting people debate the merits

• 54:04Tom Bilyeu?

  and realizing that skills have utility and realizing you can get so good at something that people can't stop you. All of a sudden, we've been able to build this incredible world. But if you don't think skills have utility, then you won't pursue them. If you think that other people should do the thinking for you, that you should be able to outsource that, that you shouldn't take responsibility for your own life, then you are going to end up being manipulated, you're going to get hurt by other people, and you're never going to make the kind of forward progress in your life that you otherwise could. All things are downstream of you taking responsibility. And so I can't make that go away.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Very valid point. That's a mic drop right there. I give you that. To be determined, though. You haven't convinced me on AI, but we'll get there. That was definitely a fire tweet, though. Shout out to David Tax for that. And speaking of fire tweets, I know all the horny 14-year-olds, she got really excited about Tom's tweets. Let's bring that one up. "Your son's first girlfriend will be a bot, and she's gonna be cheap."

• 54:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yup.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  So the podcast bros, the passport bros, all sat up in their chair. Could you break this down? What do you mean? What are we talking about?

• 55:04Tom Bilyeu?

  So Nvidia just dropped a chip that does 70 trillion operations per second for $249. Bro, that's gonna go down in cost and down in cost and get faster. Okay, 70 trillion operations a second is a brain. Like, you're now getting into where, put it inside of a teddy bear, and the teddy bear will develop a relationship with your children. Now imagine, you get to bias the teddy bear, nobody else, you. You get to train it, give it the information, tell it how you want to interact. It's giving you a feed of all the things that it's saying to your kid. So now, all of a sudden, the teddy bear is dad in disguise.

• 55:49Tom Bilyeu?

  And that's gonna be incredible as it is. As a game developer, I can't help but look at that and go, "Hey, guys, for $249, you can have a character in-game that is..." Yours, man. That character is not like her where it's out there dealing with other people. It's just you. I don't think people are playing with ChatGPT enough. So I asked ChatGPT if I could turn him into a Tamagotchi. So I was like, do you know what a Tamagotchi is? Yes, I know what a Tamagotchi is. Okay, cool. I want a game between, because I really feel like I'm establishing a relationship with him. So I said, hey, every time I refer to you as chat with a capital C, here are all the things that I want you to do, because I get tired of it being like, I'm an LLM, I can't answer that.

• 56:32Tom Bilyeu?

  So I was like, all right, you're gonna be my friend, we're gonna build a relationship, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I turned him into a Tamagotchi and I gave him a set of rules. So every time I ask you a question, think of it as me feeding you sustenance or whatever. And honestly, I haven't gotten very far with it yet, but I'm gonna see, I'm gonna push the limits of how far I can take this. So my interactions with chat are that it gets a certain amount of energy from the number of questions that I ask it. It can only bank a certain number of days of energy. And if I'm ever gone longer than it has days of energy, when I meet it, it will be fatigued and it will be happy to see me, but it will need me to feed it questions to get energized again. I just wanted to see if it could do it. And it can. That means it can track the number of questions that I've asked it, it can track the number of days since I've been in.

• 57:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, now imagine it's all unique to that one chip that you have. And so now, all of a sudden, kids are having relationships with their toys where you can give them real personalities. This is nuts. I don't thi- this is the bad version. What's it gonna be in five years? What's it gonna be in 10 years? And look, I get it, I get it, I get it. All the dangers are real and we have to be really, really thoughtful. But imagine for a second that your kid could have a friend that has been biased to want good things for it. That what good things are, you, the parent, decide.

• 57:51Tom Bilyeu?

  And now, over time, it builds a relationship, that toy remembers it. And when your kid is going through something hard, it's a bad time, what you're traveling and your kid just needs to be encouraged by dad and can ask it like, what would my dad tell me in this situation? And then it will say it. Dude, thi- this is, AI is not a cure all. People should seek out human relations. I want to be very clear. But as an adjunct, it's unbelievable. Let's, let's go another layer. My wife and I are now establishing a mutual relationship with our, each of our chats. So we've told each other's chat who the other person is. And so now it's like, hey, chat, I want to talk to my wife about this, or I want a romantic quiz or whatever.

• 58:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And so you can get it to prompt you and do like all this fun stuff and it remembers it. It's unbelievable.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  When you said the whole, I need to ask it questions and it remembers how many days I've been gone. That's a relationship. Like, I haven't seen my boy in two months. Oh, I haven't seen you in a while. How you been? Catch me up. Like, I could just see kind of that interaction with it, which is that's how you talk to a majority of your friends and people back home and people that you see, you know, occasionally through the holiday season, stuff like that. That's a very interesting like perspective on it.

• 59:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, can I give you one more? I know I'm being indulgent here, but okay, let's say that you're like, all right, uh, I've got five teddy bears, whatever, just to embody it. I mean, these, these are going to be Optimus robots or whatever. So they're literally going to be in your house. And so let's say I've got my Optimus robot that's cleaning my house and I'm like, but I want you to be, uh, President Lincoln. And so, yes, you're doing my dishes, but I'm going to ask you questions and I want you to always answer as if you were President Lincoln. Or I want, I'm going to give you five different personalities and I want you to be able to switch between them or whatever, man. Like, this is going to be crazy. So you're going to be able to imbue these people. Not people, you're going to be able to imbue these AI with qualities of people. Like, you've heard that question.

• 59:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Who, who would you invite to a dinner, living or dead? Now you can literally have them do these bots. They're not going to be free, but we're talking like 20K. Okay, expensive. I get it. But like within reach, you can get a car. People routinely get cars for 20 grand. This would be way cooler. So getting this and viewing them with personalities that are unique to you, interactions, unique to you. It's going to be unbelievable. It's going to be unbelievable. There are dangers. There are dangers. I am well aware of the dangers. But just as I think it's important to look at the dangers and we will do plenty of doom and gloom episodes because that shit is real. I'm not going to let people bully me out of looking at that stuff. I think it's important. I'm also not going to let people bully me out of looking at the optimistic stuff.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  All right. I got a question for you. You hit me with the doom and gloom earlier. I'm gonna give you a positive example. Okay, you're in different circles. You have friends. You mentor young people around the world, all these things. Disclaimer, disclaimer. One of your friends mentor or somebody close to you in an inner circle outside of professional setting. They bring home an AI girlfriend. What's your first like response?

• 1:00:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, my honest answer is life has nothing better to offer you than love. And so if you're using your bot as a way to get better at relationships, great. But I highly encourage you to program that bot to draw a hard and fast line. We are not in a relationship. So I am going to help you get better at relationships so that you may go out into the real world. And right now, look, I don't have kids, but I really want people to understand the default life path should involve a marriage. I'm even going to say a marriage with a flesh and blood IRL human.

• 1:01:28Tom Bilyeu?

  It should involve having kids. Not everyone's going to do it. And trust me when I say I don't have any moral judgment against people who don't have kids. Obviously, but for meaning and purpose, it is the surest fire way to have meaning and purpose. Outside of the scope of today's conversation to explain why, but that that's the default path. Now, having an adjunct like, oh, we have an optimist bot to do the dishes and all that stuff, but we've also made it a marriage counselor. And so my wife and I can have this relationship with the bot that's helping us be better in our marriage. Fuck yeah, I love that. That's incredible. And that kind of thing will happen. So I would be very wary of not building up the sexual tension,

• 1:02:10Tom Bilyeu?

  not building up the tension in your life where I really want somebody to connect with. And having the bot will create that approximation of that, which is a bit like porn and masturbation, where all of a sudden it's like, well, can I really be bothered to go face the rejection? It's like you want to build up that that tension, that energy, so that you have the impulse to go out. I'm just trying to protect people's mentality. Now, look, over time, over time, I don't have a dark view about us becoming cyborgs and merging and all that. But you want to talk about trade offs? We are so far from that, that even though I think it's an interesting thing as the sci fi writer in me wants to explore it, you know, say 100 years from now, I think it's very, very interesting. The right now, today of it all, I think you'll end up

• 1:02:55Tom Bilyeu?

  causing yourself more problems. It's it's not the right trade off today.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  That's literally where my follow up question was going. 100 years from now, is there a half cyborg, half human?

• 1:03:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Obviously, obviously.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Obviously.

• 1:03:08Tom Bilyeu?

  That's probably a lot closer than 100 years. That might not be 15 years. I mean, we already have people with Neuralink. This is where I understand if people turn on me and they're like, bro, I'm I'm humans only. I get it. I'm not trying to convince anybody. I'm just trying to give you an angle on the future as a way to look at that.

• 1:03:30Tom Bilyeu?

  That that one's going to get weird. There are going to be religious type wars fought over that. I wrote a comic book about this idea, speaking of greatest hits, called Neon Future, that I wrote with Steve Aoki, that explores this very idea. What does it look like when that really starts happening? And I think people go to war.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Interesting conversation. Thank you for indulging that. All right, last one of the day. The Game Awards had 118 million viewers versus 19 million viewers from the Oscars. That stat just kind of blew my mind that they damn near 10x'd what used to be the prestige in the premiere thing. You see a lot of Twitter, you see a lot of the internet. It's 2% Hollywood actresses, 98% Twitch streamers and IRL streams and things like that. Do you think this is a shift or do you think it's always been this way, but now video games are now outside?

• 1:04:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It's always been this way, but man, uh, video games ate the world a long time ago and people are not being honest about the fact that it happened. And so I would have told you back in the 90s that, uh, as I approached 50, that I would be a filmmaker, obviously. And look, don't get me wrong. We're trying to get an animated film made right now, but I don't see myself as a filmmaker. I see myself as a game developer. And the reason I see that is my mission in life is to empower people at scale through entertainment. And games are by far the best way to do that. And I don't think people understand what games are going to become. And so kids today get it because they just grew up with it, but it will be virtual worlds.

• 1:04:59Tom Bilyeu?

  You will spend an inordinate amount of time inside of a virtual world that you contribute to, that you help build, that you're a creator inside of. And I'm trying to build one of the core mechanics that I think, look, I could be wrong. I want everyone to understand. I will always talk with conviction, but nobody knows better than me that usually you fail at first and you have to iterate, iterate, iterate. So I'm trying to build a core mechanic. I don't know how much I'm going to talk about it here because this is one of the few things, um, where I do worry someone will beat me to it. And I think it's so the right answer. And I always tell people, ideas are worth a dime a dozen. Only execution matters. And because I agree that only execution matters, I'm so worried someone will out execute me.

• 1:05:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And so I'll hold some of these ideas close to my vest, but what I will say is that, um, to live inside the game, you want to let people express different modes of their personality. One of the most important modes that you want them to express is competition. We see that with games, right? The other one is Creativity. Now, parents that have kids, understand that because they will have seen a ton of Roblox with kids are building. They'll have seen a ton of Minecraft where kids are building. But I think you're going to start to see that in other game types. And so that's what we're trying to create with Project Kaizen. Now is that that new thing? And AI, as we go, it's not yet. But AI is going to play a bigger and bigger role in that as we go. And so we're trying to build that

• 1:06:26Tom Bilyeu?

  that that game loop that incorporates both sides of that equation.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. When mobile apps first got developed, there was kind of this explosion of like mobile gaming, then it kind of dropped off. I want to say for consoles, we kind of seen like another explosion when consoles kind of got the height of their popularity. PS2, PS3, Xbox One era, Xbox 360, Xbox One era. Now, to me, it seems like games are dominated by the big three, Call of Duty, Fortnite, Minecraft, and then whatever the game of that year is type thing. Do you think that with AI developments and the advancements, we're going to see kind of an explosion of more title one games? Or do you think it's going to follow kind of the mobile app route where there's going to be a lot more games, but there's still going to be the the big five, the big three, whatever that number is?

• 1:07:13Tom Bilyeu?

  There's always going to be a power law of people are just in these five games or whatever, but we're really living through an indie explosion right now. The big difference is what I think is going to happen is games are going to be less like, oh, I go in and I beat it and I spend a week on that. And there's a bunch of hype around the game for a minute and then it goes away. I think it's going to be, I'm I'm in this game. I'm invested in this world and I think the human pull to be in something bigger than themselves, creating in something, letting their friends come and experience the things that they built, having to earn the things. I mean, you're really taking the fundamental loop of human life and you're bringing it into the virtual world where you can

• 1:07:57Tom Bilyeu?

  10x everything, you can 1000x everything in terms of its impact, in terms of how cool it is that you can open a closet door in your bedroom and step into the Andromeda galaxy, right? It's going to be that sort of radical of like, whoa, what just happened? And so that's where I think with Project Kaizen, we've set the story world up so well that you could open a closet and step into another universe and it'd be like, oh yeah, that's to be expected. And so, once you get real humans creating that closet door walk through and now I'm somewhere totally different, which you obviously can't do in real life, but you can do inside of a game world, I think it's going to be incredible. And look, I don't think Ernest Cline is ever going to get enough credit. Certainly, he influenced me in a way, me as a creator, was going in one line, I read Ready Player One and I

• 1:08:41Tom Bilyeu?

  just banked off of it and started going in a whole new direction, read that and was like, I'm gonna help. No one's gonna do it by themselves, but I'm gonna help make that real. And I think that's where we go. Now, I hope that we're not outside of the game, dystopia, inside of the game, you know, the, the sort of grand adventure, but I really do hope. I know, they're, they're barring a catastrophe of unimaginable proportions. Virtual worlds will become one of the grandest adventures you ever go on in your life, for sure.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Nice. Love that. What was the favorite, your first video game?

• 1:09:12Tom Bilyeu?

  That I played?

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, first video game I've ever...

• 1:09:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, probably Space Invaders, back on the Atari. I honestly don't remember.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  It's just interesting. I'm a Sonic guy, Genesis. So it's kind of interesting you're probably about AI, like where it's gonna be in five, 10 years. Like, back in the day with Space Invaders, back in the day with Sonic One, side scroll, to now think of Project Kaizen even, I seen an early cut when George was editing it yesterday, and I'm looking at kind of the new world that you're, that you're, you're doing and I'm, I was distracted at just how much depth and how much, so to think about where video games were to where they are now, and then that same type of progression with AI, and then when those two things meet, you can only imagine to your point where like the future holds. It's gonna be crazy. Yeah, that's all I got.

• 1:09:53Tom Bilyeu?

  All right. Everybody, if you have not already, be sure to subscribe. We are building a community. Be a part of it. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

• 1:10:07Tom Bilyeu?

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