136 Health, Happiness, and Organic Living with the Food Babe Vani Hari

"Once you know what's in your food you can't unlearn it." - Vani Hari AKA The Food Babe If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes and more at www.lewishowes.com/136. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 136 with Food Babe, Vani Hari.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Thanks everyone for joining me today on this episode. Very pumped to bring on my good friend, Vani Hari. We had a great sit down here in New York City and she has an amazing book that's coming out right now. If you're listening to it, the day this is launched, it's coming out like the day after in this whole week. So it's called The Food Babe Way. So make sure to check it out. We'll be talking about it throughout this entire episode. And asking her lots of different questions about the chemicals that are in our foods. What really is healthy for us? How you can start shifting some of the things to have a healthier lifestyle in the way you're eating? And also, we talk about her approach to building such a massive following with quitting her job and taking this on over the last couple of years.

• 1:16Lewis Howes?

  Also, how you can make a change in your life if something is upsetting you, or you believe something is not right in the world. How you can really take it on and make a real difference in the lives of millions of people. Very excited about this. I hope you enjoy this one. Make sure to stick around to the end for some more goodies and updates. But let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only Vani Hari.

• 1:47Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited. I've got my good friend, Vani Hari. How's it going?

• 1:53Vani Hari?

  Good. How are you doing, Lewis?

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  Doing great. We're in New York City.

• 1:56Vani Hari?

  Yes.

• 1:56Lewis Howes?

  And we originally met in Los Angeles, right? Through, I think Derek introduced us, Derek Halpern.

• 2:01Vani Hari?

  Yeah, but you know, I feel like I've known you for a really long time.

• 2:05Lewis Howes?

  Another life.

• 2:05Vani Hari?

  And when I first saw you online. I was like, I have known him for like another life or something, you know.

• 2:12Lewis Howes?

  Why do you feel like that?

• 2:13Vani Hari?

  I don't know. There's something about you and how weird is it? The first time we went to dinner, we hung out after dinner and went investigated together. I mean, if that's not like a kindred spirit, I don't know what is.

• 2:27Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Yeah, we went to Starbucks. We walked down the street in West Hollywood and went to Starbucks and you were doing like a campaign right then about Starbucks because they were using ingredients in like a caramel latte or something.

• 2:39Vani Hari?

  Yeah, and their Frappuccino, they're using caramel color level four, which is crazy because this coffee, why are you coloring it with artificial dye, right?

• 2:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 2:49Vani Hari?

  Well, this artificial dye, according to all of these different consumer health organizations have found that it has a small cancer risk associated with it. So it doesn't make sense for Starbucks to use this ingredient. And they can obviously color it normal. And you know what was really crazy is that in the UK, when they sell pumpkin spice lattes or their Frappuccinos, they don't use this chemical there.

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 3:12Vani Hari?

  Because their citizens in other countries use the precautionary principle. And so they don't allow that those type of chemicals to be used.

• 3:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Is it not government regulated here? Or what's, why are we allowed to use them here and not in the UK?

• 3:26Vani Hari?

  Well, we all know that the government here is heavily influenced by industry. And just like the banking industry, well, the food industry is also heavily influencing government in Washington.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  Is that because there's a lot of money being donated? Or what's, why are they influenced?

• 3:44Vani Hari?

  Well, that is a big question.

• 3:48Lewis Howes?

  What's the theory?

• 3:48Vani Hari?

  The theory is, is that unfortunately, our government officials need money to run for office. And so a lot of times they're co-opted by these big industry, industries like the banking industry and food industry. And so. It's really funny that, you know, the people who used to work in the food industry also are working in the government now, like the Deputy Commissioner of the FDA, Michael Taylor, used to work for Monsanto.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:14Vani Hari?

  So, you know, you see all these like revolving doors happening where they go in industry, then they get in the government, and then they go back to industry. And so like there are all these like really incestuous relationships, and it's really not good for the public.

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. Okay, cool. You talk a lot about this in your new book, which is called The Food Babe Way, and it's how to break free from the hidden toxins in your food and lose weight, look years younger, and get healthier in just 21 days. You've got a lot of information in here, and I want to talk about first how you got involved in this whole food investigative journalism reporting, you know, changing the world in the first place. So you used to work in corporate America as a consultant, is that right? Or where did you work?

• 4:57Vani Hari?

  That's right. I was a consultant. So, right out of school, got an amazing job working for a big six consulting firm, Accenture.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay. In Charlotte, or?

• 5:07Vani Hari?

  Yeah, in Charlotte. But they put me on the road. So it was the Financial Services Office, and they put me on the road. And I traveled all over the United States, working at different banks, basically. And, you know, when I majored in computer science, I never thought I would be working in banks. I thought I would be like selling software, or developing things, or, you know, but instead I was working in big banks. And what I really quickly realized is my skill set was actually working with the management teams. So, I worked with C-level executives to help them change aspects about a company. Say they wanted to merge with a new company, I helped them with that transition. Or they wanted to change an organizational structure, I helped them with that.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 5:47Vani Hari?

  And so that's really where my skill sets were. And so, for 13 years, I was a management consultant.

• 5:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:55Vani Hari?

  And it wasn't until I finally realized that fighting for a better food system needs me more than the corporations.

• 6:04Lewis Howes?

  Why did you realize that? Was it something with your health? Were you not feeling good? Or were you, what was happening?

• 6:09Vani Hari?

  Well, the reason I started foodbabe.com, and, believe me, I wasn't gonna call it foodbabe.com. I wanted to call it eathealthyliveforever.com, and...

• 6:19Lewis Howes?

  It's a good name, too.

• 6:22Vani Hari?

  My husband, who's the technologist in the family, thought that was a really stupid name and nobody would remember it.

• 6:27Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:27Vani Hari?

  And so he said, "Well, what about Food Babe?" And I thought to myself like, "What? No, I'm not calling myself the Food Babe." And, you know, most of my life, I looked nothing like a babe. And Louis, I'll send you the before picture so you can use it.

• 6:41Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:42Vani Hari?

  But, I mean, it's absolutely crazy. My mom just recently dropped off a bunch of old photos and trophies and other things from my old room at home because she was just sick of it being there. And I'm 35 now, God, I'm telling everyone how old I am, but my step is still back home. So she finally dropped it all off. And I was looking through pictures and I couldn't believe some of the pictures I found.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  The way you looked.

• 7:07Vani Hari?

  The way I looked and that I haven't seen in so many years. Because I remember when I was in my twenties, when I had a big health crisis, I remember throwing out a lot of pictures because I just didn't want to see myself that way anymore.

• 7:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:19Vani Hari?

  I had gained 30 pounds, I looked really bad, I had eczema all over my face. And so when I looked back at these pictures that my mom dug up and found and was in this box, I showed them to my husband, who's actually never seen me like that.

• 7:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 7:33Vani Hari?

  And he couldn't believe it. And it was just, it's just shocking. But anyway, so going back to the name Food Babe, never thought of myself that way. So I'd even call a blog that was just very like, I was just like, very nervous about it. But I ended up calling my friends and my really good girlfriends and saying, "Hey, what do you think about this name for a blog?" Because they're really the ones that wanted me to share this information. They wanted to know my recipes and what I'd done to transform my life. And they knew that I was uncovering all this stuff about the food industry that I would tell them in tidbits when we'd go out to eat or we'd be out shopping or, or we'd be out, you know, traveling together. And they, they were like, "Well, why don't, you know, like, we kind of came up with this together, like, why don't we teach people to become a food babe?" Like, you know, teach people to become food babes.

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  Become their own food babes.

• 8:19Vani Hari?

  Right? So for the first year and a half of the blog, I never had my photo on the top header. I had these three cartoon characters. One was working out.

• 8:28Lewis Howes?

  I never saw that.

• 8:29Vani Hari?

  Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, one was working out, one was like carrying a tray of something, and another one was drinking a martini.

• 8:35Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 8:36Vani Hari?

  Which has nothing to do with health, really. But anyways, I blogged about working out, I blogged about what I was eating, and I blogged about my travel because that was really one of my great passions still to this day. It's one of my great passions. I love to see the world. You know, I've been to all seven continents with my husband.

• 8:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 8:53Vani Hari?

  Yeah, and so whenever, you know, it's funny, like, we were both consultants. And so anytime that, you know, we would save a little money, we would go travel with it. We wouldn't buy a fancy car, a fancy place to live, or anything like that. We always used the money to go with experience. And so we always picked a different place every single year. And so anyways, I love, love traveling. And so wrote about that, and actually, one of my first blog posts is how to eat healthy on the road. Because I'd figured out the tips, right? I'd taught, like, basically taught myself, you know, how do you be on the road 50 weeks out of the year, or 40 weeks out of the year, when you're traveling out of your home, away from your kitchen, away from your routine? How do you maintain your weight?

• 9:38Vani Hari?

  How do you eat healthy? How do you avoid all the toxins that I discovered in food?

• 9:42Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:43Vani Hari?

  And I started to teach myself these habits. And that's really what spawned everybody's asking questions around me. Like, why are you asking the server about MSG in your soup? Or why are you bringing in your lemon with you in your bag for the morning? Like, and they were asking these questions. And so I wanted to teach them. I wanted to tell them how. And I tell you, at first, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know anything about blogging. I didn't know that there were other bloggers like me out there that were writing about this kind of stuff. I didn't know that there's this huge online community, these people who are changing the world online like yourself.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Thanks.

• 10:18Vani Hari?

  And it was a really eye-opening experience because all I had been taught most of my life was, you know, you get a great job, you have a 401K, you have a health insurance plan, and then you retire. You make a lot of money.

• 10:31Lewis Howes?

  Make six-figure years.

• 10:32Vani Hari?

  And I'd gotten to that. And I tell you, it wasn't fulfilling at all.

• 10:36Lewis Howes?

  And your health wasn't fulfilled either.

• 10:38Vani Hari?

  No. And I tell you, my, my health was so horrible in that job early on that it really spawned this awakening that, you know what? I'm not gonna let any... Boss, any job, get in my way. You know, when I went on the road initially, right out of college, I was working close to 80 hours a week. Sometimes working the night shift. We had this project, and this is kind of boring, but I'm just gonna tell you what it is. But we had this project where we had to convert 27 different banks into one bank. And so back then, when you like, let's say you were, you lived in Georgia, and you wanted to deposit a check in Tennessee, you couldn't do that back then, which is unheard of now. Like, you think, what, you can't do that?

• 11:22Vani Hari?

  But back then, and this is over 12 years ago, you couldn't do that. So we were converting those banks, and there's just tons of work, and it ended up being the project of the year, but it almost killed me.

• 11:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So what were the things you were eating during this 80-hour work week? Like, what were the foods? Was it fast food?

• 11:39Vani Hari?

  Man, I ate everything. I'm talking, okay, every morning, I would have a huge coffee. Okay, I never drank coffee like that much in college, but I tell you, this job made me drink coffee. I had this huge cup of coffee.

• 11:50Lewis Howes?

  Did you put sugar and cream and milk?

• 11:52Vani Hari?

  Oh, 10 packets of sugar.

• 11:53Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 11:54Vani Hari?

  Yes.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  Every morning?

• 11:55Vani Hari?

  Almost. I mean, I remember always counting them, and when I'd have to like, order out, like, can you make sure there's 10 packets of sugar? I mean, this is crazy, right?

• 12:05Lewis Howes?

  So that was for breakfast?

• 12:06Vani Hari?

  Yeah, along with the big blueberry muffin from the little coffee shop that I would go to, right? Or the Starbucks. And then I would have, for lunch, I'd have whatever they catered in. And every day was different. So one day would be this huge Italian spread. I mean, I'm talking chicken parmigiana and a huge thing of dessert tray, like with tiramisu. And like, I mean, the most richest food. But you're like, you're working like a dog, and they wanna work you hard. They want you to bill the client. So you're working through lunch. So you're grabbing, going, you're eating while you're working. You're not even, there's no mindfulness going on whatsoever. And then at dinner, since we were on the expense account, a lot of times, our bosses would take us out, and we would go to big steak houses. And you know, I don't, I don't eat beef, because I just gave that up a long time ago,

• 12:51Vani Hari?

  but I would get, you know, the huge lobster tail with the big bowl of butter, and I would eat all of that butter. And the butter's not bad for you, it's just that amount was kind of insane. And all of the bread and the butter. Yes, and then the big cheesecake at the end of the night. I mean, this is a typical day. And then when I was working night shift, because there's nothing open... There's a Krispy Kreme nearby.

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh, don't even give me a story with Krispy Kreme. I could eat six of those in like two minutes.

• 13:18Vani Hari?

  And it wasn't like I was an, uh, like an overeater or like, or I had like a problem with eating or anything. I was just eating to get full so that I could get back to work. It wasn't even like, it just was, I was really eating what people were putting in front of me. And I really wasn't taking control of that.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  So how was your health during this time? Like what was happening, what was coming up for you? Was it like, were you just low energy or did you actually see physical, uh, you know, things happening to your body?

• 13:45Vani Hari?

  Well, I noticed that, um, my face started getting bigger, right? I took this, oh.

• 13:52Lewis Howes?

  Gluten face.

• 13:53Vani Hari?

  Yeah. I don't know, I don't, I don't know what it's called.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  It's like marshmallow man face.

• 13:57Vani Hari?

  It was, it's the first place I gained weight, I tell you, is my face. But, um, so my face started getting bigger and it was really, really, really horrible. Because I remember taking a passport photo and you know passports stay good for like over ten years.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  It's like taking up the whole square, it's like cheeks to the edge.

• 14:16Vani Hari?

  Yeah, and, and so I thankfully lost that passport.

• 14:20Lewis Howes?

  You don't have it anymore?

• 14:21Vani Hari?

  I don't have it, I don't have it. I lost it on a trip, so I was like, thank goodness I don't have that photo anymore. But yeah, it was actually a horrible photo. It was really bad. But anyways, um, I gained weight, felt horrible. I remember my mood really changing, like just not feeling happy about life, you know? And, um, one night I was home, I'd just eaten a Chick-fil-A sandwich, no joke.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  Why is Chick-fil-A so good?

• 14:45Vani Hari?

  I'll tell you that later. Um, and, um, I had a terrible pain in my side. And I called my parents to help, like called my brother first and then called my parents to come take me to the emergency room. And the first doctor who saw me said, nothing was wrong. I mean, I was in so much pain and said, nothing was wrong. We think one of your ovaries is moving, it's no big deal. Take some Advil and go home. Like, literally sent me home. So thankfully, my parents just didn't feel right about what was going on and asked me to see another doctor the next morning. Went straight to my normal doctor. He, uh, said that I had appendicitis, was pretty much a hundred percent sure. And that I would need to have emergency surgery immediately.

• 15:28Vani Hari?

  So I was rolled into the emergency room like an hour later.

• 15:31Lewis Howes?

  You had surgery?

• 15:32Vani Hari?

  And had surgery. And it was the night, it was so crazy and you might, you know, you might identify with this since you're single and stuff. But. It was a night where I was supposed to go to this party where it's like this huge gala. Everyone dresses up. It's December. It's the holidays.

• 15:51Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 15:51Vani Hari?

  And you donate gifts to kids and everyone like mingles and has a good time. And I really wanted to meet a guy, right?

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:00Vani Hari?

  And I just remember like waking up from my surgery and knowing that like my friends, some of them were there at that party. I mean, some of them knew that what was happening to me and they were at the hospital, so they missed the party.

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:13Vani Hari?

  But just knowing that like, whoa, I'm in my early twenties. I am out of shape. I look like this. I just had my appendix taken out.

• 16:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:23Vani Hari?

  This is not how I want to live.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:26Vani Hari?

  And I just remember while I was recovering for the next couple of weeks, while everybody else is going out shopping for the holidays and having more parties, I couldn't get up out of bed because it hurt so bad.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:37Vani Hari?

  And my body was so inflamed that it took me longer than typical people to recover from an appendicitis surgery, so, or an appendectomy, so.

• 16:47Lewis Howes?

  So what was happening during this recovery time? Were you like, okay, enough is enough, like I need to shift something? Or were you still eating bad food?

• 16:54Vani Hari?

  I started to, started to read.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 16:57Vani Hari?

  And I started to remember this information I'd learned in high school. In high school, I was a top tiered ranked debater. I was number one in state three years in a row. Got recruited to college to be on one of the top debate teams. Ended up quitting because listened to advice of people around me that said, you know, you're not going to get a job debating. You need to get something practical.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 17:20Vani Hari?

  So I listened to them. But, but one of the year's topic was healthcare. And healthcare, I used that information and you had to, you had to debate affirmative and negative of the year's topic.

• 17:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 17:32Vani Hari?

  So it was to determine whether the United States should have a comprehensive healthcare policy.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 17:36Vani Hari?

  And I just remember how screwed up the healthcare system was. And I was using that information to win debate rounds, but I wasn't using it for my own health.

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 17:48Vani Hari?

  And. It was that kind of like, I started thinking like, oh my gosh, remember that information about the food industry? Like, just started asking questions about how do I get healthy? What are the best foods to put in my body to get back to a healthy body? And I, you know, and I didn't really know what a healthy body was, which is really screwed up. I was like a zombie, you know? I grew up on industrial processed food. My mom and dad did not know how to cook American food because they're both from India. And so they really used the health of Betty Crocker and McDonald's so that we could fit in. And so I had health ailments my whole life. You know, I was always on prescription drugs, so I didn't know what life could even be like.

• 18:29Lewis Howes?

  You just thought it was normal, that it was something else while you were on drugs.

• 18:32Vani Hari?

  Right. I had no idea it was food. But I tell you, as soon as I started cleaning up my food, the weight came off, the allergies went away, the asthma went away, the eczema went away, my skin became clear. Skin I never thought I'd have.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:49Vani Hari?

  And...

• 18:50Lewis Howes?

  You lost the marshmallow face.

• 18:52Vani Hari?

  I did. I did. I lost that face. And I tell you, one of my aunts, to this day, still can't believe my transformation. She says to my cousin all the time, she says, "Yeah, I think she had work done." It just doesn't make sense. She doesn't look at anything like she did when she was younger.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 19:11Vani Hari?

  And I tell you, I didn't have any work done. It was pure just paying attention to my food and making sure that I wasn't eating the chemical garbage the food industry was putting into our food. And I decided to take back control. And that is what created this beast called Food Babe. And I tell you, and this passion, you know? A year before I started the blog, my mother-in-law died of cancer. And when you spend a whole week in a hospital room saying goodbye to someone that you love so much, and I tell you, my mother-in-law wasn't like the typical mother-in-law that you hear about. She was like my own mother. I mean, she was just a remarkable woman.

• 19:50Vani Hari?

  And seeing her courage and seeing her fight that whole week and being there was the scariest thing I've ever witnessed in my whole life. And so that happened a year before, and then my own dad got diagnosed with cancer. And so my passion for getting this information out just grew stronger.

• 20:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:12Vani Hari?

  And.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  And is it food related, cancer?

• 20:15Vani Hari?

  I mean, we don't know, right? We don't know how.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  Probably not a big effect.

• 20:18Vani Hari?

  Right, but my dad, I tell you, has not lived a very healthy life.

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  With the food he's putting in his system.

• 20:23Vani Hari?

  Yeah, yeah, and he's been my biggest challenge. And I tell you, your family's always the biggest challenge.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 20:29Vani Hari?

  But, um, so started food, babe.

• 20:32Lewis Howes?

  This was only a couple of years ago.

• 20:34Vani Hari?

  Yeah, and, and, and I just started writing about things I was really passionate about. And I started to realize I had a knack of asking questions nobody was asking before.

• 20:43Lewis Howes?

  Mike, what were some of the questions?

• 20:44Vani Hari?

  Well, no one had really asked Chipotle, I guess publicly, online, um, what's in your food? You say your food's with integrity, but what's actually in your food? What are the ingredients? No one had done that.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  Do some of these companies not show ingredients? I thought they have to show ingredients, don't they?

• 21:01Vani Hari?

  Well, um, they don't.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Or they hide them, or it's like.

• 21:03Vani Hari?

  They don't, actually, you know, they don't, not all of them do. And so there's big, huge companies like Papa John's, who don't release their ingredients online. However, their competitors like Domino's and Pizza Hut do.

• 21:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 21:18Vani Hari?

  And, um, Chipotle, back then, when I started asking the questions, didn't.

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:24Vani Hari?

  And thankfully, because of my investigations, they started labeling their ingredients, GMO or not, started removing some of the bad ingredients. And they're getting rid of them. The majority of bad ingredients I, I wrote about, the ones that were very controversial. When I realized someone as large as Chipotle, or Chick-fil-A, or Kraft, or any of these big companies were listening to someone like me, I knew I could no longer stay at that job.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  And you started this at the other job that you were doing, right?

• 21:52Vani Hari?

  For a year and a half.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  And it started to pick up.

• 21:54Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  And I remember when I first heard about you. It was something about Kraft, like you basically changed the whole thing that Kraft does now. And I want to talk about that in a second, but I also saw, I remember you doing a video, like eating a yoga mat and then, and talking about some word that I can't pronounce. And then later, seeing like three months later, seeing Subway come out with a commercial saying they no longer have that ingredient because you were specifically talking about it. And I thought to myself, wow, if one person can create enough of a conversation so that a large company like a Subway or Kraft or Chipotle or Chick-fil-A listens and takes action to change something, I said, that is really powerful.

• 22:36Lewis Howes?

  And you've worked in kind of solving a lot of the issues with Kraft, Subway, Chipotle, Chick-fil-A, and Starbucks and having them change their ingredients. And what was the thing with Kraft? What actually happened?

• 22:48Vani Hari?

  Well, one of the things I realized, as soon as I quit my job, which was the scariest thing ever, because I wasn't, this was a pure passion project. So I didn't know how to sustain myself when I quit my job. And I was in the house and I was sitting here and I'm living in the condo, surrounded by the banks that I used to work with and downtown Charlotte and going, oh my God, I have no boss, I have no job, and I'm a food activist now. Wow, this is crazy. I cannot believe I'm doing this. You know, when you're working on a passion project, you know, and you're also working in the corporate world, you're not putting your hundred percent effort into it, even though it's like kind of taking over your world and your thought and you're sitting

• 23:32Vani Hari?

  at work and you're thinking about your next investigation instead of what you're supposed to be doing. Like that started to happen, but I was still like straddling these two jobs, right?

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  You had to take the leap.

• 23:41Vani Hari?

  Right. And then when you put your a hundred percent focus in something, wow, the doors just start opening. And so the first thing I started to investigate was how food in Europe is healthier than the United States. What has happened is Europe has been regulated on a precautionary principle that these chemicals are considered guilty before they're innocent. Here in the United States, they're innocent until proven guilty. And so in Europe, there are several chemicals that are either banned or not used or have warning labels. And one of those chemicals is artificial food dyes, yellow five, yellow six, red forty.

• 24:24Lewis Howes?

  They don't use any of them there. Or they're labeled specifically with a warning?

• 24:27Vani Hari?

  Well, they label them with a warning.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 24:30Vani Hari?

  So, they are banned in certain countries. But in the UK, they have a requirement that you have to put a warning label on it that says "may cause adverse effects in activity and attention in children."

• 24:43Lewis Howes?

  Kind of like cigarettes, basically, a warning on a cigarette box.

• 24:47Vani Hari?

  Right, but it's a warning on a box of candy or a box of mac and cheese. Like, if you were to import a box of mac and cheese from the United States to the UK and sold it in a specialty store, it would have to have that warning. But you know what Kraft did to try to get away with, without putting that warning? They reformulated their product without yellow five and yellow six and used real ingredients, paprika and beta carotene, for European citizens, but not for us.

• 25:14Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 25:15Vani Hari?

  So, they found out that there was this health issue, right, associated with especially children. Who, who's the biggest population of mac and cheese eaters in this country?

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Children.

• 25:27Vani Hari?

  Children.

• 25:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Vani Hari?

  And to say, you know what, instead of putting that warning label on the box, we're just going to reformulate for them and we're not going to do it for all of these millions of people in the United States is immoral and unethical.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  So, why did they do that? Because it's a lot more expensive to put the natural ingredients in, I'm assuming?

• 25:44Vani Hari?

  It is a little bit more cost, but in the long run, it's not that much. I mean, these corporations are making billions of dollars collectively. So, it's, it's really unfortunate that these companies have gone unregulated like this and it's up for us consumers to hold them accountable.

• 26:01Lewis Howes?

  Sure, because if we keep buying, they'll keep selling it to us.

• 26:03Vani Hari?

  That's right, that's right. And so, I started a petition and...

• 26:08Lewis Howes?

  Against Kraft?

• 26:09Vani Hari?

  Yes, to remove these artificial food dyes. And I tell you, it was...

• 26:13Lewis Howes?

  So, you weren't saying, "Don't, don't make mac and cheese anymore."

• 26:15Vani Hari?

  No, no, no.

• 26:16Lewis Howes?

  "Don't sell us this." You're just saying, "Take these specific ingredients out."

• 26:19Vani Hari?

  Right.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  That other countries don't have in their foods.

• 26:21Vani Hari?

  We should be able to eat junk food without the risk of hyperactivity or cancer, because some of these artificial food dyes are contaminated with carcinogens. You know, we should be able to have things without them harming us. And so, I tell you, that period of time really changed me. Because what I realized quickly, we, the petition got over 200,000 signatures in a week.

• 26:44Lewis Howes?

  Amazing. So, you posted on your site or online with the petition?

• 26:48Vani Hari?

  Yeah, right.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  And people could sign online?

• 26:49Vani Hari?

  On change.org. I actually used change.org back then. And they were an amazing partner. They really helped carry the message and they really helped guide me too. I'm like, what do you do? How do you do a petition? And how do you do all these things? And now, actually, I'm teaching some of those principles in this book. Like, how do you start your own petition?

• 27:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, okay.

• 27:07Vani Hari?

  Yeah, there's an appendix in the back.

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  Very cool.

• 27:10Vani Hari?

  In the back of the book, but...

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  So what happened with these 200,000 names? Did you say, "Hear Kraft," like, "Look at this," or what was the next step?

• 27:18Vani Hari?

  Well, they continued to be really, basically, sending us PR... Can I say bullshit on this program? Pure bullshit to us. And actually, the story of what happened when I went to go deliver those petitions to their headquarters is the first introduction chapter in this book.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:37Vani Hari?

  And it's gut-wrenching.

• 27:40Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 27:41Vani Hari?

  You know, I don't hold back on how I felt when that was happening.

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 27:45Vani Hari?

  And the really unfortunate thing with Kraft is that they weren't really willing to hear all of these consumers. Now, this petition has close to 400,000 signatures still to this day. They're starting to slowly take out the artificial food dyes. They've taken it out for kids' products, and they've taken it out for their deluxe products, and I think they're going to eventually get rid of the rest.

• 28:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:06Vani Hari?

  It's just going to take them some time. But, you know, what's really the most critical point of that petition, what it taught me, is that there are thousands of people really being affected by these issues. Thousands of parents sent me letters. Their kid's asthma went away. Their kid's eczema went away. Their kid's activity improved at school. Their kids got off their ADHD medication. Their autism lessened, the symptoms of aut... I mean, personal letters from parents. I actually took those with me, printed them all out. It was a stack this big. Took them with me to Dr. Oz, the show, and waved them in the air on camera at Kraft.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  And what happened?

• 28:49Vani Hari?

  Well, that's when I had to go deliver those letters and that petition. And when I was carrying those boxes of signatures, I mean, I really felt the weight of those parents and those children that have been affected by artificial food dyes. And it still remains a problem today, and a problem that I'm going to continue to fight for.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow. That's incredible. What do you feel like has been the biggest challenge with all these companies that you've been addressing? With the artificial ingredients or the ingredients that are healthy? What do you feel like has been the biggest challenge so far? Which company has been the biggest challenge to work with? Which, you know, and which one has been the most enjoyable, I guess, if you could say that, to work with? Or has been actually willing to listen to you and take your counsel and say, okay, we do want to make changes. What are some suggestions?

• 29:36Vani Hari?

  So let's, let's start with the positive. So a few years ago, there was something in my fridge that I had no idea what was in it. And it was a bottle of Newcastle beer. Everything else I knew what was in it, but the Newcastle beer had no ingredient list. And I was like, why doesn't it have a ingredient list? And knowing what I knew about the food industry and how GMOs have infiltrated everything.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  What's GMO stand for, just so people know?

• 30:01Vani Hari?

  A genetically modified organism.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 30:03Vani Hari?

  And have just been.

• 30:05Lewis Howes?

  Where scientists have created an ingredient to then go into the food.

• 30:10Vani Hari?

  That's right. It's a, it's a new species of plant, basically.

• 30:15Lewis Howes?

  That we designed.

• 30:16Vani Hari?

  That's right. It's not from nature. This is, this is in a laboratory. They inject either DNA or insecticide or some other type of concoction and put it into a seed and then grow that as new.

• 30:28Lewis Howes?

  Amazing, okay.

• 30:29Vani Hari?

  So, and the problem isn't so much that technology. It's not even about that. It's about the fact that they're paired with an increase in pesticides. So the chemical companies who have developed those seeds are the same chemical companies selling the pesticides.

• 30:44Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 30:44Vani Hari?

  So it's a pesticide issue. It's really not about.

• 30:47Lewis Howes?

  It's not about GMO.

• 30:48Vani Hari?

  It's not about biotechnology. It's really about the pesticides. And the pesticides is what is really causing a huge environmental impact in the, the rise in cancer rates. If you look at the president's cancer panel, who independently looks at cancer rates, has said that 41% of us are destined to have cancer. Some of those reasons can be related back to these environmental toxins.

• 31:11Lewis Howes?

  With pesticides is one of them. So if it says GMO, does that mean it has pesticides attached to a GMO or? So the GMO, is the GMO bad, or is it just a pen?

• 31:22Vani Hari?

  Well, I mean, it is creating new proteins that have never before existed.

• 31:27Lewis Howes?

  So it's different for your body to digest, and it may react in certain ways.

• 31:31Vani Hari?

  There are certain studies that show different things, and what's really concerning to me is that there's no mandatory safety testing on GMO crops in this country before they're introduced. All the other countries around the world, they have this, they require it, or they label it, right? They either say, "No, you can't sell this here, or you can't grow this here, or we have to label it so consumers have to know."

• 31:55Lewis Howes?

  Or a warning, "This may cause certain issues."

• 31:58Vani Hari?

  Right, but here in the United States, these companies are spending millions of dollars to prevent their name from being on there. Like, they don't want us to know that genetically modified foods. I mean, think about it. The Super Bowl is happening, right? It's around this time of year, and think about all of the companies that spend millions of dollars to put their name right there, front and center. The biotech companies and the chemical companies are trying to take their name away from this. They're trying to hide this from us. So you've got to wonder, why are they trying to hide so much?

• 32:30Lewis Howes?

  I'm interested, though. You know, cigarettes, they have a big tax on them. I believe here in New York, they have a big tax on them to buy cigarettes. And also, they have a big warning label, and a lot of them have like people with like cancer on them. It says, "You will, you know, cigarettes cause death even maybe." I'm not even sure exactly what they say, but there's big warnings on them, but people still do it. Do you think if those warnings were on our food labels in the US, that we would still eat it? Just like people are addicted to cigarettes?

• 32:57Vani Hari?

  Well, the GMO label is not even a warning label. It's just a transparency label, just to know what you're buying. I mean, it's like how you know that you're drinking orange juice from concentrate. We should know if our food's genetically engineered. And so when these same food companies did this in Europe, they're still selling food there. It's just labeled there, so consumers should know. Yeah, absolutely. So it's not, you know, this is a smart business decision for companies, especially to give them this information. But I tell you, there's something funny going on if they want to hide it so bad. So that's what your first, kind of, when you start to investigate, you kind of wonder, well, what's going on here? And when you look deeper into some of the studies that have been done, they're very alarming and very concerning. And now we're seeing...

• 33:43Vani Hari?

  The main ingredient roundup, which has glyphosate in it, in human breast milk.

• 33:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:49Vani Hari?

  Which is a huge toxin, I mean, linked to autoimmune disorders, cancers, all sorts of things. So, this is a huge issue. But, going back to that Newcastle beer.

• 33:57Lewis Howes?

  Newcastle, tell me about it.

• 33:59Vani Hari?

  I had no idea what was in it.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 34:01Vani Hari?

  So I was like, why don't, why don't beer, why doesn't beer, alcohol, wine, liquor, why doesn't any of it have ingredient labels? Why can't I know what makes this raspberry flavored vodka, or this beer? And so, I started to investigate, because it was the one thing that was in my fridge that I, I wasn't personally drinking, my husband was drinking, I care about his health, and was looking into what was in there. And I remember going, it took me over a year, almost, maybe, maybe a little bit less, or a little bit over, a year, to quiz the beer companies enough to even write an article about what I found out about the beer industry. And what I found out was shocking. Most of it had GMO corn added to it, so it's not the basic ingredients of beer, you know,

• 34:45Vani Hari?

  malt, barley, you know, etc., yeast, and water. It had, it had caramel coloring added to it, so they could use a different kind of malt.

• 34:54Lewis Howes?

  Just like Starbucks.

• 34:55Vani Hari?

  Yes, just like Starbucks. And it had artificial dyes added to it, it had different types of propylene glycol added to it, which is a derivative of antifreeze. There was things that vegan and vegetarian people would be concerned about, ice and glass, which is produced from a fish swim bladder, carrageenan, which is linked to intestinal inflammation. So, all of these things were in beer, that I had no idea what was in it.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  Because it wasn't on the label.

• 35:24Vani Hari?

  It wasn't on the label. So I felt like this needed to change. That blog post, when I wrote it, went so crazy viral, millions of people saw it. And I realized that people are really fed up with this. And so, I reached out to Anheuser-Busch and Miller Coors.

• 35:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 35:40Vani Hari?

  And at first, they wouldn't respond back to me, they gave me the, the basic mumbo jumbo, "Sorry, we're not going to release our ingredients, we're not going to tell you, because it's proprietary information." But as soon as I did a petition, and got close to, I think, 40,000 signatures overnight.

• 35:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 36:00Vani Hari?

  They responded. And the first to respond was Anheuser-Busch, and they were, when you ask, who was really nice to work with, they were incredible to work with. They, they emailed me right away. And I told this whole story on the blog. So if you look at old blog posts, you can read this story. But they emailed me right away and they invited me to their headquarters to

• 36:19Lewis Howes?

  In St. Louis?

• 36:20Vani Hari?

  Yes.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Vani Hari?

  And to learn about their processes.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 36:23Vani Hari?

  And look at their ingredients and meet their head brewmasters. So, you know, I went and did that on my own dime a dollar. You know, wasn't consulting or anything like that. I went there and I met with them and I've been trying to convince them to develop an organic beer that isn't contaminated with any GMO ingredients, so.

• 36:41Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Very cool.

• 36:42Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay, well, are they taking any ingredients out? Or are they doing anything different? Or is it still the same thing?

• 36:48Vani Hari?

  Well, they

• 36:49Lewis Howes?

  Are they labeling it?

• 36:49Vani Hari?

  Well, they are posting all of their ingredients online now.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 36:53Vani Hari?

  They've slowly started adding all the beers on there. I think they're almost all the way up there. So if you go to tapindoyourbeer.com, I think that's their website.

• 37:01Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 37:01Vani Hari?

  You can see what's in their beer. And some of the things are, you know, really bizarre, like high fructose corn syrup in my beer? I had no idea.

• 37:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:08Vani Hari?

  I mean, think about all the people who read packages and avoid high fructose corn syrup and they had no idea that they were drinking it in beer.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 37:16Vani Hari?

  Now they do.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  So there are arguments that even organic food is contaminated from rain and the soil. So can you speak about what organic actually means? And is it actually healthy for you if it can be contaminated still without these other, you know, pesticides or things controlling the food?

• 37:35Vani Hari?

  Yeah, so let's just start with defining organic food. Organic food is grown without growth hormone. That's linked to cancer. It's talked about in my book. It's one of the sickening 15.

• 37:45Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:45Vani Hari?

  It's grown without antibiotics, another sickening 15.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:48Vani Hari?

  It's grown without artificial ingredients.

• 37:51Lewis Howes?

  The 15 ingredients that wreak havoc on your weight, beauty, and health. That's what you're talking about?

• 37:55Vani Hari?

  That's right.

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  The sickening 15, yeah.

• 37:56Vani Hari?

  Yes, yes.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  So to make sure you don't have those.

• 38:00Vani Hari?

  Right, well, let's just talk about antibiotics for just a second here. So there's this groundbreaking study that Martin Blaser talks about in his book called Missing Microbes that shows that when we have overexposure to antibiotics, whether it's in our water or in our air, or it's given to us, you know, as a child, the overuse of it, like when we don't need it, or sometimes it's passed through meat or dairy, you know? They test for it, but sometimes it's passed. They found that to be the case. We can actually start to change our metabolism for the worse. So we start to gain weight. And in his book, he His research is just groundbreaking when it comes to this. And actually, our metabolism starts to change.

• 38:43Vani Hari?

  And our gut bacteria starts to change to the point where we can't metabolize fat as much. And so.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  With, um, when we, when we have, what did you say? When we put what in our foods?

• 38:53Vani Hari?

  Antibiotics.

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Antibiotics, yes.

• 38:55Vani Hari?

  Yes, there are some pesticides on organic food, but it's not the really super toxic ones. And then, and then the other thing that I love about organic food is it prohibits a slew of those artificial ingredients. The azodicarbonamide that was in Subway bread. You can't use that in organic food. Artificial food dyes that were in Kraft that's linked to hyperactivity in children, can't use that in organic food. So when you buy USDA organic food, you're mostly getting real, unadulterated food. The fact that we have to call it organic is kind of sad if you think about it.

• 39:31Lewis Howes?

  Because everything should be organic.

• 39:32Vani Hari?

  Right, so when you choose organic food, you're automatically eliminating your exposure to all of those potential toxins. But also, you start to promote the reduction of pesticides in our environment as a whole. And that has a tremendous impact on our farmland, on the farmer's health, on the children's health, on our water health. You talk about how soil can be contaminated. It can, but I tell you, if majority of our farms were not, uh, were organic, that wouldn't happen as much.

• 40:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, man. Okay, here's a question for you. To get a sense of, worst-case scenario, if you had to make a decision.

• 40:14Vani Hari?

  Oh, gosh.

• 40:15Lewis Howes?

  Would you rather eat that non-organic piece of produce or eat healthy packaged food?

• 40:21Vani Hari?

  Would it be organic packaged food or what is it?

• 40:26Lewis Howes?

  Healthy packaged food or, uh, non-organic piece of like produce, something available?

• 40:31Vani Hari?

  I'd probably eat real food.

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  Real food?

• 40:33Vani Hari?

  Yeah, because any time something gets into a package. It's been processed, the nutrients have been diminished.

• 40:40Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh. So even if it's not organic?

• 40:42Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 40:42Lewis Howes?

  You still eat it, okay.

• 40:43Vani Hari?

  Right, like if somebody were to give me, um, let's say, an apple, a non-organic apple versus a healthy choice frozen meal, I'd eat the apple.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  A package good, yeah, yeah.

• 40:57Vani Hari?

  Yeah, I always tend to go towards whole, real food versus packaged processed.

• 41:01Lewis Howes?

  Healthy processed.

• 41:02Vani Hari?

  Because as soon as it's in the plastic, it's in the paper.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  It's already, you gotta strike against it.

• 41:07Vani Hari?

  Oh, and there's a whole chapter in here dedicated to what happens to food that's not even the stuff that is on the label, the stuff that's not labeled that happens to food that gets in our food and in our bodies, that's really important for people to understand.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  Okay, tell me about your name, because your name really means voice, isn't that right? Body means voice. I find it fitting that your name is now coming to fruition over the last few years with you using your voice, and so with something you're passionate about. Do you find that interesting? Do you feel like this was like what you were born for, or do you feel like it's just coincidence?

• 41:40Vani Hari?

  Gosh, that's a deep question. Um, what's really interesting is that most of my life, I hated my name. Because no one could pronounce it correctly.

• 41:50Lewis Howes?

  Am I pronouncing it correctly?

• 41:55Vani Hari?

  Gosh, we've known each other for this long.

• 41:56Lewis Howes?

  Hopefully I'm saying it right.

• 41:57Vani Hari?

  By the way, for the last couple of years, so, um, no, um, you know, no one's been able to pronounce it, and I didn't really grow to love it until I started to really find myself and find my voice. And it just, you know, my mom, my mom likes to say she planned this all out, of course, right? But I tell you, I think I'm just, I count my blessings every single day that I've been able to find my calling in life, like why I was put on this earth to try to make a difference. And I hope other people find it too. And, and one of the things that I realized very

• 42:38Vani Hari?

  quickly is there's no way, if I wasn't taking care of my body and feeling really great and being healthy, that I would have had enough brain power or enough energy to even take on what I'm doing, and even go from someone who was working all day to doing this at night and doing this on the weekends to now doing it full-time all the time and working more than I've ever worked in my life. Harder than I've ever worked in my life. I mean, the last year writing this book, oh my gosh.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  Another thrill.

• 43:09Vani Hari?

  And it's just, I know I would never be able to do that if I wasn't taking care of myself. And so when I think about teaching the principles in the Food Babe Way to everyone out there, I'm really hoping that they get so healthy and so strong in their own body that they figure out what their true calling is. Because I really do think that like, you should think about like, what you want to leave, what impact you want to leave on the world. And I tell you, working in that cubicle and working for those C-level executives at the bank, I wasn't leaving my impact on the world. Now, I'm really leaving an impact on the world. I'm trying to get the world healthier, trying to wake up everyone's eyes about what's in our food so that they start to ask questions. I'm not trying to take anybody's food away.

• 43:53Vani Hari?

  I'm just trying to make it the healthiest it can be, and still taste amazing, and still be the junk food, but just without the toxins. And, you know, the Food Babe Way is not about deprivation. You know, I, you've eaten with me, you know I love dessert. I can take it to some dessert.

• 44:12Lewis Howes?

  It's about the right ingredients in the junk food, the bad, the bad food for you. Knowing that you're not putting the worst ingredients in there.

• 44:21Vani Hari?

  Right, that's right. And, and there's a way to live and not expose yourself to that. And I taught myself the principles, and I can't imagine not everyone knowing what I know. And that's what is in this book. And I tell you, it really shocked me when I started to do some of the investigative material, the new investigative material that's in this book, like finding out what's in the Olive Garden breadsticks, endless breadsticks, pasta, and salad. You know, finding out what's actually in there, some of my parents' favorite lunch to like, have on the weekends, you know? It's devastating to find out the truth about what's in this food. But I tell you, once you know that, you can't unlearn it. And that's what I really hope for everybody who reads this book,

• 45:04Vani Hari?

  is that once you know what's in your food, you can't unlearn it.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel that mastering your health and what you put in your body is the first step to being able to then find your voice if you don't have it yet? And then to be able to have the energy to move towards it?

• 45:20Vani Hari?

  I absolutely think that because I think it all has to do with self-confidence too. Like I tell you, I didn't have a lot of self-confidence looking the way I looked back in the day.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  Marshmallow face, wasn't confident?

• 45:32Vani Hari?

  It really wasn't. It really, it wasn't who I was. You know, I feel, when I look back at that time, I feel like I was in an alien body. I was in, I was like a zombie walking through life. And to think I spent more than half of my life like that, it kills me. And I can't just sit back and watch others not realize their full potential. Because I tell you, I'm not, you know, I'm not living a life of deprivation. I eat and I love food and I eat all amazing types of things and it, and, but, but I also it feels so good and have so much energy that I'm able to do so much more with my life. But it's about living that long and like really truly like having a quality of life. Not being hooked up to machines, not being in a nursing home.

• 46:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 46:18Vani Hari?

  Um, being able to do.

• 46:19Lewis Howes?

  Not having cancer.

• 46:20Vani Hari?

  Yeah, not having cancer. And if I can do whatever I can to prevent that, I really want to try. I know it's not 100% preventable because it could be anything. We don't have the answers, but when we know that some of these things can be linked to it, it makes sense to.

• 46:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's about setting yourself up to win to the best of your ability. You know, making sure you're understand, you're educated, you're putting in the ingredients that matter, that we know about at least.

• 46:43Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 46:44Lewis Howes?

  And setting yourself up to win.

• 46:45Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  So I've got a couple of questions left for you, Bonnie. And the first one is about your approach in getting your voice out there and your message out there. And sometimes I'll share your information on my Facebook page. And I'll have a friend from college say some really nasty things about you. Like I, they'll say, I can't believe you're posting about her or promoting her information. She's, the way she goes about things is negative and this and that. And they'll have some really nasty things to say. And I'm like, whoa, I'm really taken back because I know you and we're friends. And do you feel like, and I know you have a lot of people that are against your message and your mission.

• 47:27Lewis Howes?

  You have this huge food babe army that's for you and that supports you and that signs these petitions. But then there are a few people that aren't so supportive. Why do you think these people are not supportive? And do you think there is an approach that you could take slightly different to gain their their support of you? Or do you think that you don't need their support?

• 47:51Vani Hari?

  Well, I think the the reason why there is so much talk about the food babe, right? They want, they really want to make it about me as opposed to the message.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  The message, yeah. Try to take down the messenger.

• 48:05Vani Hari?

  Right, they do. They want to attack the messenger. And you know, the thing is, is I'm not bringing up too many new things. Yeah, I investigate it differently. I find out new things about certain food companies. But the research behind the chemicals is clear. It's from Consumers Union, it's from the Environmental Working Group, it's from the Center of Science and Public Interest. I stand on the shoulders of these experts, basically shouting out loud.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  Their information.

• 48:32Vani Hari?

  In a consumer focused way.

• 48:34Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 48:34Vani Hari?

  Relating it back to products so that it's not just some weird chemical that they're talking about. It's an actual product. It's the, you know, it's the Danin in your, or the Yoplait, or the, you know, whatever, the yogurt in your fridge and what's in that, you know? So people are like, oh, I have that brand, so let me go check and da, da, da, da, and let me find out. You know? And so it's, it's a way to really, you know, resonate with the average person who doesn't have time to research all these different chemicals. And, you know, some people are not going to like my approach. I understand that. But I also know that my approach has had a tremendous impact.

• 49:10Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:11Vani Hari?

  And it's starting to wake up food companies for the better. The amount of food companies that changed last year was insane.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  And they're doing commercials talking about the changes they're making, which I thought was insane.

• 49:22Vani Hari?

  Yeah, I mean, the fact that McDonald's had to hire the guy from Mythbusters to talk about the ingredients in their food in a very open way is a huge change in transparency. I mean, it's still unfortunate that you, in the United States, McDonald's french fries has 19 ingredients here and only four in the UK. I mean, those other 15.

• 49:44Lewis Howes?

  It's just potato. What else could it be?

• 49:46Vani Hari?

  Right, right. Those other 15 ingredients we really don't need.

• 49:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:50Vani Hari?

  But, you know, things are changing. And unfortunately, there's certain people that want the status quo to stay the same. They're threatened by this message of change. They feel threatened, maybe in their work. And I don't know about your friend specifically. He could be a food scientist or someone who's developing these chemicals.

• 50:11Vani Hari?

  Or could be employed by one of these food companies.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  I haven't talked to him in a long time, but I just saw a comment.

• 50:18Vani Hari?

  You know, or he could have been influenced by some of the factions online that really are are working to try to destroy my name and destroy my character. And, you know, the thing is, is I'm a normal, everyday person. I'm a citizen journalist speaking out. You know, who is he supporting? Is he saying that the food industry is right? For using certain ingredients here and not in other countries? For hiding certain facts about their food? You know, no one can argue with that. And that's what's so encouraging for me is that when I think about the work that I'm doing, I know I'm on the right side of the debate. There are two sides to the debate. Yeah, there are the people that want the status quo to stay the same. And then there's people that want change. I'm on the change side.

• 51:01Vani Hari?

  And I'm leading the food babe army that way to change the food industry for the better because we have to change it. The astronomical rates of cancer, heart disease, autoimmune disorders, ADHD, autism, neurological disorders is through the roof.

• 51:19Lewis Howes?

  Learning disorders, all sorts of things, yes.

• 51:21Vani Hari?

  Is through the roof. We have to do something. And that's all I'm asking. And if the people who speak out against me, if they just use some of that energy, some of that time, and maybe.

• 51:32Lewis Howes?

  For positive change.

• 51:33Vani Hari?

  For positive change, that would really be a good message to have. I mean, I just think about some of the people who spend all day fighting me and writing nasty things about me. And I just think about like, you know, the food industry has spent so much time and money on these inventions. And the science to make their bottom line richer. What if they use that energy and attention and that science to make us healthier?

• 52:00Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:01Vani Hari?

  And when we look at these inventions, they aren't making us healthier.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Vani Hari?

  There are brand-new chemical substances that have been introduced into the food supply very recently, in the last thirty years. I mean, think about it. Congress, when they gave the FDA authority to regulate food additives, there was only eight hundred. Now there's ten thousand.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 52:22Vani Hari?

  And the FDA has admitted, they don't know the amount of chemicals the American public is being exposed to, and they know that they can't safeguard us. They admitted this.

• 52:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:31Vani Hari?

  So, we have a huge issue. We need to speak up, and...

• 52:36Lewis Howes?

  How does someone join the Food Babe Army, then?

• 52:38Vani Hari?

  (laughing) It's easy.

• 52:40Lewis Howes?

  What do I do?

• 52:41Vani Hari?

  Come over to foodbabe.com, sign up for email updates. I will... You're indoctrinated into the Food Babe Army. I'll give you all the resources. I'll send you my top posts right away, so that you can get up to speed and just start learning about the food industry. And I think, you know, this information is really gonna change the world. I really feel that way. And Mark Hyman, in this book, Dr. Mark Hyman, who's a dear friend...

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  Who wrote the foreword.

• 53:06Vani Hari?

  Who wrote the foreword. In the foreword, he says, "If everyone were to follow the Food Babe Way eating plan, the food industry as we know it would crumble."

• 53:15Lewis Howes?

  Because they want to be able to... Because people want to be buying those foods, so they want to be able to survive.

• 53:20Vani Hari?

  Yeah.

• 53:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 53:21Vani Hari?

  Yeah. So, yeah.

• 53:23Lewis Howes?

  So, sign up for the newsletter, join the Food Babe Army. Two final questions. Before I ask you the last couple of questions, I want to acknowledge you for your voice, Fonny, and for risk-taking. You are one of the biggest risk-takers I know, and I know lots of risky entrepreneurs who take risks in business, but you're risking something much bigger. And I acknowledge you for having the courage to use your voice in a positive way, and continue to have the courage every day with people attacking you. I think it's really powerful, what you're up to, and I want to acknowledge you for that, so thank you.

• 54:00Vani Hari?

  Thank you.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  What are you most grateful for recently in your life?

• 54:04Vani Hari?

  Oh, it's the easy one. So, I get asked a lot, you know, "What is the biggest accomplishment you've had?", you know? And they expect me to say, like, "A food company." Like, "Oh, I got Chick-fil-A to go antibiotic for you," or "I did this," or "I did that," or "The Food Babe Army got this company to do that." It's not even about that. And I tell you, we said it earlier, that your family is the hardest to change. And recently, my brother, who was really resistant to my message, was very skeptical of my message and my way of life, has started to make some changes, some positive changes, some of the habits in the Food Babe Way. And he's lost weight, looks so good, looks better than

• 54:47Vani Hari?

  I've ever seen him. And literally just knocked my socks out last time I saw him. And seeing him so healthy and vibrant and happy has been like, I don't know, I'm speechless about it.

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  No, that's really cool. Very cool. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

• 55:05Vani Hari?

  Letting go of fear so you can be who you really need to be.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  Bonnie, thanks for coming on. I appreciate you. Make sure everyone checks out The Food Babe Way. And I'll have it all linked up over on my website. So thank you so much for coming on.

• 55:18Vani Hari?

  Thank you, Louis.

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Thanks so much for checking out and listening to this episode. If this is your first time on the School of Greatness podcast, thank you so much for being here. It really means a lot to me. In every episode, it seems like we gain new individuals listening from all over the world. And I'm just so grateful and blessed and thankful. Couple of things you can do. Make sure to check out lewishouse.com/136 to get all the show notes from this episode. So we got links to Bonnie's book, we got links to her website. You can connect with her and see what she's up to for her book launch and all these other good things that's going on with Bonnie. Again, make sure to go to lewishouse.com/136 to get the show notes for this one. And also, go ahead and subscribe

• 56:04Lewis Howes?

  to this podcast. If you're on your iPhone or an Android, wherever you're listening to this, subscribe in that player. Again, we're on Stitcher, iTunes, SoundCloud, TuneIn, all these other podcast places. Make sure to subscribe. Please leave us a review if you enjoyed this. And the best way to get the word out is to share this episode with one friend. So again, it's lewishouse.com/136. If you enjoyed this specific episode, make sure To share it with a friend and let them know that you loved it. We've got a lot of incredible guests coming up here in the next couple of weeks. We've got Marie Forleo coming on. We've got Jack Canfield and some epic guests as well. Some great celebrities coming on that you're gonna really enjoy. So make sure to subscribe. Keep checking out the School of Greatness.

• 56:49Lewis Howes?

  You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.

• 57:33Lewis Howes?

  Are you still listening to this episode? If so, it's because you love the music that much. I know. We've got a playlist for some of the music. I'll make sure to put the link out somewhere at some time so you guys can get this playlist. But for those that are looking to take their business and their lifestyle to the next level, I've got something extremely exciting for you guys. It's called the School of Greatness Academy and it's coming out this month. You're gonna want to make sure to get signed up on the waitlist at schoolofgreatness.com. That's schoolofgreatness.com. It's a six-month extensive mastermind program with some of the top entrepreneurs in the world. We've got people from I think over 16 different countries now.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  And it's all about building your business in the lifestyle of your dreams. So if you're up for a game like that, if you're up for changing certain things that you're not happy with, if you want to take your business to the next level and optimize your lifestyle, then this is for you. Make sure to check out and sign up at schoolofgreatness.com for more. You guys are incredible. Make it an amazing day today. Love you guys. Peace.