Tesla Goes Broke, Mercedes Goes Yoke! New Outrun Movie, JDM Legends Ranked!

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• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:42Speaker 02

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• 0:49Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to this car pod. I'm Kenan.

• 0:53Speaker 04

  I'm Felipe.

• 0:53Doug DeMuro?

  And let's start with the news. Specifically Tesla is our first news story. Take it away.

• 0:58Speaker 04

  Tesla reported their Q1 numbers. And we know from our podcast a couple of weeks ago that the sales were quite low for Tesla in Q1. Income and revenue, revenue rather, was too. So car related revenue went down 20% from year over year. And by the way, historically Tesla's sales increased quarter over quarter over quarter. They've had good growth.

• 1:18Doug DeMuro?

  Car related revenue is down 20%.

• 1:20Speaker 04

  20%. Total revenue down something like 9% because they have other business lines, Tesla Powerwall. That's a lot.

• 1:27Doug DeMuro?

  20%. And one of the things we reported a couple of weeks ago is that other electric cars had not seen similar declines.

• 1:34Speaker 04

  Correct. Other electric cars are doing better. There was news this week that Volkswagen in Europe beat out Tesla for the most sold EVs in Europe for a brand. EVs are still doing okay. It's just Tesla that isn't. Now, stock yesterday, we're filming this on Wednesday, when it was reported on Monday or Tuesday, stock price went down. Elon Musk said today that he's starting in May, he's going to be spending a lot less time on Doge, the Department of Government.

• 2:01Doug DeMuro?

  Efficiency.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  And more time on Tesla. Stock went up on that news.

• 2:06Doug DeMuro?

  So he announced that he's going to be devoting more of his energy on Tesla. Like and the stock rebounded as a result of that. Obviously, I mean, it's obvious to me. I think there's going to be some people in the comments who question it. But it's obvious to me, and I think most rational people, that Elon's, some of Elon's political decisions over the last six months have been a huge contributor to this. It is unbelievable to me here in California, how many people come up to me and say, I want an electric car. I want nothing to do with Tesla. Or I'm trying to get rid of my Tesla. I have several friends who got rid of Teslas. Specifically, even leaving, losing money on them, specifically because they don't want any part of this.

• 2:40Speaker 05

  The sheer number of, I bought this car before Elon was crazy bumper stickers we see on Teslas now.

• 2:45Doug DeMuro?

  Everywhere.

• 2:45Speaker 05

  Everywhere.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  And I mean, there are protests outside of a lot of Tesla dealerships around the country and the world, uh, which does impact it. Now Tesla's line in their earnings call was basically that they expected sales to be down in Q1 because they were retooling some of their factories and production was down. The Model Y had a facelift that launched a month or two ago.

• 3:04Doug DeMuro?

  They're saying that? Did you see the day's supply numbers?

• 3:06Speaker 04

  There's a lot of data supply, but.

• 3:07Doug DeMuro?

  So they're saying production was down. Well, you got day's supply.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  They got a supply, but they, they wanted, they expected some slowdown is what they're saying.

• 3:15Doug DeMuro?

  Cybertruck day's supply is crazy.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  There's also a new lower trim of the Cybertruck in the $70,000 MSRP range because demand has been low.

• 3:24Doug DeMuro?

  Now, I will say, um, whenever we publish, whenever we talk about how Tesla is slow, people say that if the new Model Y is coming and it will save things, that may well be the case for a little while. But the new Model 3 came only a year ago and is already under heavy incentive. So my suspicion is that the new Model Y is not the saver that some of these people are hoping for.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  Agreed. I mean, certainly Elon Musk's political decisions and views have impacted sales. Fundamentally, it's also a pretty aged product line. The Model S came out in 2012.

• 3:52Doug DeMuro?

  12.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  Had a major facelift in 2017. So we're, we're eight years after that. The Model X has never received a substantial.

• 3:59Doug DeMuro?

  My, my view has always been that Tesla, when these cars came out, were vastly ahead of the competition. Um, and so redesigning them was not necessary for a long time. However, the competition has in large part caught up. You're seeing the competition have better self-driving or driver assist, if you want to call it that. You're seeing the competition have better innovations in other areas that Tesla is not keeping up with. And for whatever reason, Tesla has granted a huge. A portion of the competition, the ability to access its chargers, which was, in my opinion, its last remaining significant piece of competitive advantage that you could supercharge, you could charge these Teslas at the charging stations. It was, it was basically captive to the Teslas. That's gone.

• 4:33Speaker 04

  To some extent, a lot of their revenue or a fair amount of revenue also came from cap trade type programs where they needed to offset other manufacturers' emissions. Other manufacturers now also have EVs. They can use some of that. It's changed their, their business and the market has changed a lot since.

• 4:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, Tesla is definitely no longer the silver bullet that it once was.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  Now, the stock is still quite valuable.

• 4:54Doug DeMuro?

  We always wondered if it could sustain, if Tesla, the car company, could sustain at its, at its pace. And the thought I always had was kind of probably not considering that the cars are simply, they couldn't innovate at the level that they had been innovating.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:09Doug DeMuro?

  Like, like five years ago, it was an electric sedan. Two years ago, or 12, 100 years ago, it was an electric sedan. Two years ago, it was a yoke.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 5:15Doug DeMuro?

  Not as, not quite the, the groundbreaking innovation that it was in 2012 and 2015 when the X amount.

• 5:21Speaker 04

  And now the market is still counting a lot. By the way, the Tesla market cap is 20 times Ford's market cap.

• 5:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  The, the market is counting a lot on autonomous driving, on Elon Musk's promises around taxis and being able to rent out your Model 3 and a new planned sub Model 3, more affordable EV, which by the way Tesla announced as part of their rental was delayed. The market clearly still sees value.

• 5:45Doug DeMuro?

  The market still sees.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  Is that fair? I, I don't know.

• 5:49Doug DeMuro?

  I think if you're, if you've been watching the car business, you, you're definitely skeptical of that, but you probably weren't 2014.

• 5:57Speaker 04

  And you are probably glad, as there's a reason the stock price is up today, that Elon Musk is gonna devote more attention to it.

• 6:03Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, next news story, please. We'll see how that develops. Okay, we have some folks. Yes. The OutRun movie.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:10Doug DeMuro?

  Has, there's been some talks that they're going to make a movie out of OutRun, which was a famous video game. Did you guys ever play the OutRun video game?

• 6:17Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 6:17Doug DeMuro?

  You did? You never did?

• 6:18Speaker 04

  At an arcade?

• 6:19Speaker 05

  I really didn't play many video games.

• 6:20Doug DeMuro?

  It was, it was only an arcade game. I don't, maybe you could buy it at, at, at your house, but I only ever played it at arcades. Like, I would, I remember going to the movie theater specifically to play. Outrun. And later outruns had every Ferrari. You especially would be interested in.

• 6:34Speaker 05

  My movie theater had the 355 Challenge arcade game.

• 6:37Doug DeMuro?

  Oh damn.

• 6:37Speaker 05

  So I just drove 355s.

• 6:39Doug DeMuro?

  Nice.

• 6:39Speaker 05

  And those sounds, best sound of.

• 6:41Doug DeMuro?

  I wonder to what extent that influenced your, your future existence.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  It didn't. I wasn't into cars at all. And then I rode in a 355 and then I played it more.

• 6:49Doug DeMuro?

  I remember, I only played, I never, I'm too, I'm too young for Outrun the original, but Outrun 2 was in my movie theater. And I remember one time we figured out there was this hack where it gave you the choice between five different Ferraris. But if you pressed like the second view, like camera view button, cause like when you were driving, you'd switch views. But if you pressed that button while you were selecting a car, you could choose between five other Ferraris.

• 7:09Speaker 05

  Whoa.

• 7:10Doug DeMuro?

  It was like this, this is before the internet. So you know, this stuff didn't like spread. You had to just know.

• 7:14Speaker 05

  Someone passed you a note.

• 7:16Doug DeMuro?

  So but originally, the original Outrun game, they were driving a convertible Testerosa, which was kind of ironic because that was like the one thing Ferrari didn't make. And now they're talking about a movie, Michael Bay, Sydney Sweeney has signed on just as a producer, not as an actor.

• 7:27Speaker 05

  Maybe as an actor too. News a little conflicting. She is a big car enthusiast, by the way.

• 7:30Doug DeMuro?

  She's a big car enthusiast. And so it makes sense that she's attached to this. My question is, how do you make a movie out of Outrun? If you haven't played, for those who haven't played it.

• 7:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:39Doug DeMuro?

  As I recall, you would get in the car, the gate, you'd drive on a fairly straight road with simulated curves and then the race would end. There was no plot other than that. There was no story.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 7:51Doug DeMuro?

  But they do a good job of this. This guy's a genius.

• 7:53Speaker 05

  Michael Bay is good at making a lot of action out of no story.

• 7:56Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. So I'm, I'm excited and I hope they have a Testerosa convertible.

• 8:02Speaker 05

  I, they have so. I also hope that Ferrari allows them to have a Strommern conversion.

• 8:10Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, so anyway, if this happens, it'll be cool because it was a part of our, an interesting part of our childhood. However, um.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, we'll see.

• 8:17Doug DeMuro?

  Still don't quite understand the process. Anyway.

• 8:20Speaker 05

  As long as the car chase scenes are good.

• 8:21Doug DeMuro?

  And they will, they will.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  We're, I mean, we, God, we put up with Fast and the Furious 12 where they shift into 13th gear like they're driving a, they're driving an 18 wheeler. Yes, the, the compilations of gear shifting are from that. The longest runway known to man.

• 8:34Doug DeMuro?

  All right, move on to the next one. Oh, yes. The new Lexus ES. The new Lexus ES. For those of you who don't know, the Lexus ES has been announced. Now, the Lexus ES, for the first 20 years of its life, was based on the Toyota Camry. In the last couple of generations of the ES, it was based instead on the Toyota Avalon. The Avalon is now canceled. You don't know about this?

• 8:55Speaker 04

  I mean, I do, but the Avalon is the same platform.

• 8:57Doug DeMuro?

  No, the, the, but that, that's insane to say. The ES was a rebadged Camry with different body and all that. And then it became a rebadged Avalon, and that's what it was.

• 9:06Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 9:07Doug DeMuro?

  The most recent one is now a Toyota Crown. They're obviously basing it on the Toyota Crown.

• 9:13Speaker 04

  I agree with you, but their press release said it's based, or like the news articles from when the Shanghai Auto Show where it was released, said it's based on the Camry. I agree it's based on the Crown.

• 9:21Doug DeMuro?

  They say that this is not Crown based, but it's got all the hybrid. Okay, regardless, to me, though, the most interesting thing about this, have you seen the interior?

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Single screen.

• 9:30Doug DeMuro?

  Interior. Take a look. This is the interior. Does this remind you of any car's interior?

• 9:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Ioniq 5, including the Lexus font.

• 9:38Doug DeMuro?

  Fully. This is a Tesla Model 3, Model Y interior. If you covered up the, the.

• 9:44Speaker 04

  Deep.

• 9:44Doug DeMuro?

  You would think this, you're in a Tesla interior.

• 9:46Speaker 04

  The Lexus RZ, famously a great, the small EV.

• 9:52Doug DeMuro?

  What, are you getting paid by a truck?

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Has a steer-by-wire system. They're clearly looking at their competition. They copied it.

• 9:57Doug DeMuro?

  The Lexus RZ, it is interesting to me.

• 9:59Speaker 04

  Little yoke.

• 10:00Doug DeMuro?

  Tesla, Tesla's had a massive influence on the auto industry. Some automakers have gone at this their own way. Some automakers have gone at this to copy in Tesla. The RZ has a yoke.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 10:09Doug DeMuro?

  The new ES, which, which was, the yoke was coming out of the RZ as it was a huge deal in the Cybertruck and the other cars. The ES, obviously, this is a massive, massive takeoff on the success. I mean, this really, I know a lot of car interiors sort of look like this now, but this really looks like a Tesla interior.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Here's what I don't quite get.

• 10:28Doug DeMuro?

  The steering wheel.

• 10:28Speaker 04

  Who is Lexus going after? Because traditionally, the Lexus ES buyer has been older.

• 10:35Doug DeMuro?

  I think they're watching market share evaporate to Tesla, and they're thinking, we want to get some of that. And so they're trying to get some of that.

• 10:41Speaker 04

  But like, who that wants a Lexus goes and like, how are they attracting that audience?

• 10:47Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know that the ES in particular has an enormously devoted following anymore anyway. A lot of those people have switched to the crossovers and SUVs. So maybe they're just trying something like they did with the Crown.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:58Doug DeMuro?

  Or just different.

• 10:59Speaker 05

  I actually think the Kurnia looks good.

• 11:01Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but cars like that are the soft front-wheel-drive, expensive sedans don't have an enormous take rate anymore in today's world.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  This is a hybrid.

• 11:10Doug DeMuro?

  And it very, it's an interesting car. It's not, I mean, we're going to see them around, not like they used to. This is these, a lot of these buyers have switched to crossovers. But to me, the interesting part of this story is just how much Lexus clearly sees the Tesla influence and wants to be part of that in some direction.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. By the way, just to circle back, it is using a platform that is shared by the Camry, the Crown, the Highlander, the Venza, the ES, the NX, the RX.

• 11:31Doug DeMuro?

  Luxury version of the Crown.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  I mean, it looks like it, certainly. It, yes, I agree with you.

• 11:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, what is our next news story today?

• 11:39Speaker 04

  Ah, Cadillac V, Kenan's dream. He wants a CT5 V.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  Oh, in the worst way. Love the black wing.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  You also obviously want an Optic V and the Lyric V.

• 11:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  The Lyric V was announced a while, a month or two ago. The Lyric is, of course, their midsize electric SUV.

• 12:00Doug DeMuro?

  Of course.

• 12:01Speaker 05

  I actually like the Lyric.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  It looks great.

• 12:03Speaker 05

  Styling, I love the lines.

• 12:04Doug DeMuro?

  It's good.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  They're all, they're all airport.

• 12:06Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 04

  They're all airport cars.

• 12:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're Uber Blacks.

• 12:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. But they sold them, and that's what matters. The Lyric V will have 615 horsepower, 3.3 seconds 0-60, which is strong. The Optic V, Optic is their small electric crossover.

• 12:22Doug DeMuro?

  Is that on sale?

• 12:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 12:24Doug DeMuro?

  No.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 12:27Speaker 05

  That can't be true.

• 12:28Doug DeMuro?

  Every so often, as someone who pays an enormous amount of attention to the auto industry, every so often I'm driving down the road and I see a car and I've got no idea what it is. And that hasn't happened to me since I was like 10 years old.

• 12:37Speaker 04

  The Optic is on dealer lots.

• 12:39Doug DeMuro?

  But the reason that that happens is because they're the, these automakers have branched into some really weird things and some of these cars have very low volumes.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 12:47Doug DeMuro?

  Like the ADX, what, pull up a picture of the Cadillac Optic. By the way, that's Optic with a Q.

• 12:53Speaker 04

  Yep, I'm trying to see if there's any reviews. There were first drives a month ago.

• 12:56Doug DeMuro?

  Oh my God, and I haven't reviewed it. That's part of our talk car segment today.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  Cadillacs specifically?

• 13:01Doug DeMuro?

  It's based on, yeah, it's based on the Equinox. It looks like an Equinox.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  Based on the Equinox.

• 13:05Doug DeMuro?

  Or the Plazery V or something?

• 13:06Speaker 04

  Equinox.

• 13:08Doug DeMuro?

  I gotta tell you.

• 13:09Speaker 04

  Same platform.

• 13:09Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know anything about this car, but interesting.

• 13:11Speaker 04

  Uh, the V was announced today though, uh, and we know nothing except for the fact that more will be announced this summer.

• 13:17Doug DeMuro?

  I do find it interesting.

• 13:19Speaker 04

  We wait with bated breath.

• 13:20Speaker 05

  Also, by the way, we've got this graphic, we've got that graphic. Fantastic. Really want to show off the car here?

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Can we talk about Cadillacs SUV? Because suddenly they have four electric SUVs.

• 13:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, and one of them.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  The Optic, the Lyric, the Vistix and the Escalade IQ.

• 13:33Doug DeMuro?

  So Optic and Lyric and Vistix all end in the letter Q. So then there's the Escalade, it doesn't have a Q in it, so they called it the Escalade IQ. Or is it just Q?

• 13:41Speaker 04

  IQ. And therefore it has a Q in it. I mean, it's better than Escalade Q.

• 13:45Doug DeMuro?

  I see.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  Escalade.

• 13:47Doug DeMuro?

  Escalade.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  Escalade.

• 13:48Doug DeMuro?

  I see Escalade IQs all the time, all the time. I have never seen a Vistix or an Optic.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  I'm not sure the Vistix is out, but first drives have happened.

• 13:56Doug DeMuro?

  Do you agree with me that in terms of Cadillac electric SUVs, it doesn't matter really whether it's out or not in terms of whether we see them?

• 14:06Speaker 04

  In Southern California, yes, it does not matter.

• 14:08Doug DeMuro?

  I think our, it's like, it's like playing the lottery. I think our chances of seeing one on the road is about the same whether it's on sale or not.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  Can you pull up the Cadillac Vistix? Cause by the way, the Cadillac XT6 died a couple of weeks ago.

• 14:19Doug DeMuro?

  You know, that is so sad. I had a day a couple of days ago where I saw six XT6s.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  Really?

• 14:24Doug DeMuro?

  In a single day, banner day. That is a nice looking car. What is this thing?

• 14:27Speaker 04

  That's a Vistix. It's, it's an XT6 replacement.

• 14:30Doug DeMuro?

  Why does this not find its way into the public domain?

• 14:33Speaker 04

  I don't know. I don't know, but I'm into it. It's a good looking car. There, there will probably be a Vistix V.

• 14:40Doug DeMuro?

  This is a three row, so this is an XT6 replacement, but it's EV only and there's no gas midsize Cadillac SUV.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 14:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yikes.

• 14:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:47Doug DeMuro?

  Well, except for the Escalade, which might be mid-sized by Cadillac standards.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Oh. Figure this is standard of the 70s.

• 14:54Doug DeMuro?

  What does this have? Click, click, click on this car and driver article. What does this thing have? This one here. What does this thing have in it? No, I want to see the picture. I want to know what's going on. How much power we got? Go down, go down to see the power.

• 15:06Doug DeMuro?

  I get all my information. 300 miles a char. Oh, it costs $99,000. Lovely. Okay, anyway, go.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  But what the interesting thing here is that.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  3.7 seconds.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  The interesting thing here is that they are clearly using their V brand in a aggressive way. And they can, because they don't need to put a new engine in it. They just.

• 15:24Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's tuning.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  Amp up the motors. And that's smart of them.

• 15:28Speaker 05

  Amp up, nice.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, it makes the V more like the V Sport situation.

• 15:33Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know. If you're doing 0 to 16 in 3.3, that's pretty V to me.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  That's pretty, that's pretty quick.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  I think they hope to get Kenan with a CT5 V Blackwing. And then get Kenan again with a Vistix.

• 15:42Speaker 05

  Because definitely, the things I love about the CT5 V Blackwing, it's supercharged V8, it's manual transmission, real drive. I definitely love about this car. It's a very similar machine.

• 15:50Doug DeMuro?

  It is interesting. They've really committed hard to these EVs. The Escalade remains an Escalade with a V8 and all the gas-powered engine, because they can't leave that behind.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Yeah. They've gone all in on it.

• 16:00Doug DeMuro?

  It'll be interesting to see what happens, though, to these other ones. Obviously, the $98,000 starting price must be sort of like an entry-level launch edition thing. But.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:08Doug DeMuro?

  Can't where the market is.

• 16:09Speaker 04

  Can I ask you a question? Would it be more appealing to you if you knew, if like we marketed EVs as, hey, this car has two motors? Or four motors?

• 16:19Speaker 05

  No, because I went to an engine.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  But it has four engines-ish.

• 16:22Speaker 05

  Their motors. Their motors. No.

• 16:25Doug DeMuro?

  People use those interchangeably.

• 16:26Speaker 04

  Naturally aspirated quad engine.

• 16:29Speaker 05

  Kenan would be all over that.

• 16:30Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 04

  What's an R1S quad engine?

• 16:33Doug DeMuro?

  A naturally aspirated quad engine.

• 16:36Speaker 05

  The marketing's, I'm not fooled by the marketing.

• 16:39Doug DeMuro?

  Remember when Hummer tried to claim they had 15,000?

• 16:41Speaker 04

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• 18:11Speaker 04

  And that's it. Is also going to be making a midsize truck. So the midsize truck has made a comeback. You know, 10 years ago, the Chevy Colorado died and the Ford Ranger died. And it was kind of generally thought that the midsize truck was sort of coming to an end. And the Honda Ridgeline saved us all. The Ridgeline showed up and was a joke. It was a, you know, car based and it had, it had an audience, but not like the, the giant volume that. And so, but then the Colorado returned and the Ranger returned and they're actually selling pretty good numbers. Then Ford brings in a Maverick. Suddenly the smaller midsize pickup, the Hyundai Santa Cruz is like alive again. Tim Kaneskis is, is back now as the CEO of the whole thing, right? He's not the permanent CEO, they're hiring CEO. He's a shortlisted for the formal CEO job, apparently. And he's saying, we're doing a midsize Ram.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Now there was a midsize Ram, the Dodge Dakota, designed by the same man who designed the Lamborghini Diablo.

• 19:05Doug DeMuro?

  This is true. Anyway, that was a great truck and it lasted for a long time, but went away maybe 10 years ago. So it'd be interesting to see Ram come back into this space, which seems like a pretty reasonable. They announced that they were gonna do this a couple of, or leaked they were gonna do this a few months ago, but they've confirmed it recently.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  It's not, they have these trucks for other markets. The reason the Ranger came back to the US is that they've made, Ford made a Ranger for pretty much every other market.

• 19:26Doug DeMuro?

  Chrysler doesn't though.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  No, except for the, the small Fiat.

• 19:29Doug DeMuro?

  They have a Fiat in Latin America, but it's a front-wheel-drive car. It's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a mid-size truck.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  That's true. Ram, Ram does not. We still be interested to see them develop one.

• 19:38Doug DeMuro?

  However, those trucks are relatively popular. They are relatively popular globally. I will say the Chevy Colorado sold here is unrelated to the global Chevy mid-size pickup, GM mid-size pickup truck. But the market is here.

• 19:51Speaker 00

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• 20:21Speaker 01

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• 20:33Speaker 02

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• 20:36Speaker 05

  Is it just me or are those rear tires incredibly narrow?

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Well, they want you to understeer.

• 20:42Speaker 05

  Just like he does.

• 20:43Speaker 04

  They'll be even narrower in the small one.

• 20:46Doug DeMuro?

  Nice. I'm excited to see how this goes. Obviously, I like Ram styling. I'm curious, you know, how it translates to a smaller truck.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  I mean, have you seen the Dakota? Cause well.

• 20:57Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, no, they looked good. The man did the, Tom Gale's.

• 21:00Speaker 05

  I'm not talking about the first gen. Also did the Dodge Viper.

• 21:02Doug DeMuro?

  He did the Diablo and he did the 98 Dodge Dakota. And damn it, they both looked good.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  They did. They do. They still do. I will also say one other, one of the pieces of mid-size pickup news, just to slide it in there, the Frontier, Nissan Frontier, still exists. They've said that it will likely be a hybrid for the next generation.

• 21:21Doug DeMuro?

  The next generation, they're already talking about the next gen?

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Well, there hasn't been a new gen in a minute.

• 21:25Doug DeMuro?

  Kennen's over the Nissan for tier. That truck last, new gen in a minute, it came out like, like four years ago.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  It wasn't new.

• 21:31Doug DeMuro?

  The previous one went for 15 years.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true. They are talking about, maybe the next refresh. The news was vague.

• 21:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, give us our next news story, please. Oh, my God.

• 21:41Speaker 05

  This is embarrassing. So this is the Porsche Spirit 70. Now, last week, we talked about the Mercedes stronger than the 80s G-Wagon. And not to be outdone, Porsche decided they were going to come up with something from the decade prior. They wanted, so this is the, this is based on the 911 Carrera GTS Chevrolet T Hybrid, which, boy, that just rolls off the.

• 22:03Doug DeMuro?

  God.

• 22:03Speaker 05

  And it's got serious power, 532 horsepower, 40 to 95 pounds of torque. But critically, they wanted to make it aesthetically appeal to the cars from the 70s. They wanted to make it like that. So it's painted olive nero is the name of the color, which is this greenish color and has gold wheels. And it's a limited edition car they're going to make. The interior of it, which isn't shown here, has the Pasha fabric, like the, and it's green and gold, like, it's very.

• 22:25Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think that they took the press photo in the shadows in order to try to hide it a little?

• 22:32Speaker 05

  I think.

• 22:33Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think that the press photo was intentionally kind of trying to disguise the fact that this car exists?

• 22:42Speaker 05

  I.

• 22:42Doug DeMuro?

  Look at the 911 graphic on the hood. This is gonna be such a hit with the Porsche people.

• 22:48Speaker 05

  Oh, it is.

• 22:48Doug DeMuro?

  I just, this is exactly the kind of thing. I love the cars so much, but you know they're going crazy on rent list right now, talking about how they're gonna deviate the color of their 911 graphic to be purplish black instead of blackish purple.

• 23:02Speaker 05

  I started writing down the list of stuff that they wrote, they supplied of like the changes they made, and I got so bored, I just stopped. It was just like, this is not something.

• 23:11Doug DeMuro?

  I think this will be cool. They're all cool. It's just.

• 23:13Speaker 05

  You want to know what, so they're gonna build 1500 of these worldwide, they say, and it's going to have a, the price, $242,250. That's $62,000 more than the Carrera GTS. It's also $20,000 more in the base price of the GT3.

• 23:29Doug DeMuro?

  Wow.

• 23:29Speaker 05

  Something to think about.

• 23:30Doug DeMuro?

  But it's a limited car. I will, I do say, I will say, I do find it funny that Porsche's limiteds are starting to become pretty, 1500, not a small number. The Dakar, which everybody freaked out about, was one of 2,000.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Then they left the door open for potentially building more later and other versions.

• 23:45Speaker 05

  Right. The F40 was not a limited production car in the end. It was supposed to be and then wasn't. They built 1300 of those.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  1300 and same with Carrera GT.

• 23:52Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 23:52Speaker 04

  That was like a big production run at the time. These days.

• 23:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  And they're charging 250 grand. I hear that's good news. You can get it without the graphics.

• 24:01Doug DeMuro?

  I have a question. At what point does Porsche start to not be able to do this anymore? We've seen Ferrari kind of hit the limits with the SF90, right?

• 24:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:10Doug DeMuro?

  You've seen SF90 prices?

• 24:12Speaker 04

  That's not because they made a special edition of a model.

• 24:14Doug DeMuro?

  No, but my point is like, how, how long can they get away with like changing a car primarily cosmetically, calling it limited and charging vastly more money and people will fall all over themselves to pay for it? Like, how long will that continue?

• 24:29Speaker 04

  Do you remember how much money Ferrari makes from, from their special projects or whatever they're called?

• 24:33Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but they don't make a one of, I mean, this, they don't do this.

• 24:36Speaker 04

  You probably get a savings from doing it yourself. Paint a sample plus whatever it's called to get the color that only exists for this.

• 24:42Doug DeMuro?

  You get my point. At some point Porsche people are gonna look at this and say, you know what? I don't know. It's too expensive. It's too weird. It's not special enough. I, I got.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  And then somebody else will say, oh, sure, I'll buy it.

• 24:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's, but right now they're still frothing at the mouth to get deviated stitching on everything. So it still plays into Porsche's hand here, but I agree for, for $242,000. I can think of a lot of other cars I'd rather have than this one.

• 25:05Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 05

  But.

• 25:06Doug DeMuro?

  You can get a 993 twin turbo.

• 25:09Speaker 05

  I, that, that's a real car. That's a real car. Yeah, Porsche guy.

• 25:12Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, uh, move on to our next news story. Oh, yes.

• 25:15Speaker 05

  Yes. So Mercedes-Benz has announced that they're going to be switching to a steer by wire system. Now, there are a number of manufacturers who already do this, with notably Tesla, of course, but Lexus does too. Mercedes says that they have spent like almost a million miles or something like that doing the testing to make sure this is safe. Cause when Mercedes-Benz implements something, it must be perfect in their view. And so finally there will be no physical connection between the steering wheel and the front wheels of the car. This will be especially beneficial for cars though that have rear wheel steering. As you go faster, they're going to adjust the way, so just like the Teslas do. And they're going to introduce this yoke steering wheel.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  And they're introducing a yoke.

• 25:48Speaker 05

  And this is going to come in 2026. So this is going to be on the EQS and then they said also the S-Class is likely what's going to end up. But it's just, it's a, it's a big deal that Mercedes believes in the technology and has developed it to the point where they can do this. So.

• 25:59Speaker 04

  You don't think this is a big deal? I

• 26:02Speaker 05

  I understand steering.

• 26:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I understand steering.

• 26:04Doug DeMuro?

  Well, Lexus RZ and the Cybertruck have it. And then a couple of Infinities, but you told me there's still a secondary.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  The RZ and Cybertruck are the only ones I can think of that don't have a secondary backup. And I think the RZ doesn't, not 100% sure. The reason that I'm not surprised by this is that once a manufacturer develops it to the point where they feel comfortable and other manufacturers can do a million miles of testing, it's natural that they would want to do this. It frees up a ton of interior design, frees up a ton of space for how they can actually fit engines and equipment in their cars. It's massively more space efficient to have it be drive by wire. So once somebody does it and everybody else kind of figure out, oh, wait, we can do this safely too. It was inevitable, the same way that

• 26:46Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but

• 26:47Speaker 04

  that like, this is just a

• 26:48Doug DeMuro?

  It wasn't particularly well received, the yoke. I mean, people thought it was cool, but it was sort of a novelty.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  The yoke feels like a novelty, but steer by wire seems like an

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Wait, no, hey, the EQS has been so well received, why not throw a yoke in there?

• 27:00Speaker 04

  I fully agree that the yoke is a novelty, but this drive by, steer by wire was inevitable, if I'm right.

• 27:05Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with

• 27:06Speaker 05

  I agree. And to be clear, there are redundancy systems, just no physical steering column.

• 27:10Doug DeMuro?

  It is an interesting point, though, that, hey, another manufacturer's adopting this, it was in some onesie twosie cars. Clearly, if Mercedes Benz is starting to put it into their cars, this is going to trickle down to a lot of different stuff. And before too long, this is going to be all cars. And then everybody's going to complain about how it's one more thing to break. That's the comment. I'm calling right now.

• 27:25Speaker 05

  One more thing to break, unsafe, blah, blah, blah.

• 27:27Doug DeMuro?

  Unsafe, yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 04

  That robbed us of steering feel.

• 27:29Doug DeMuro?

  Robbed us of steering feel. Okay, next up, we have to move on to our Talk Cars segment. Our Talk Cars segment is brought to you by Cars and Bids merch. Cars and Bids has new merch and we stole some of the designs from the European highway sign symbol. Oh, wow, we got Kenan's car on both of these things.

• 27:47Speaker 05

  It's a great cut from our producer.

• 27:48Doug DeMuro?

  Go to carsandbids.com, find the merch tab. I don't know where it is, you gotta find it.

• 27:53Speaker 04

  Or merch.carsandbids.com.

• 27:55Doug DeMuro?

  This is the level of advertising we do. Okay, I want to show you something that blew me away. I saw it this week. Go to the next slide. This is a BMW of some variety, okay? No one knows what. But here's the interesting thing.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  The new X1.

• 28:09Doug DeMuro?

  You see that back wheel?

• 28:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:11Doug DeMuro?

  Ugly, right? But the front wheel is missing that cover and damn if that doesn't look good. Yes, that is a nice looking wheel. That looks like the wheel that would have been in Kennen's cars era. Like a nice, simple five spoke that every manufacturer has gone away from because they put these covers on their reels for aero now. And it has screwed up the look of every wheel. But if you take off the aero cover, you got to admit, you're sitting here looking at this thinking, you know, I could see this on E46.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  I would say E36 for sure. I was looking, it has kind of a dish to it, doesn't it?

• 28:43Doug DeMuro?

  BMW still makes an attractive wheel. It's just hidden by an unattractive wheel cover.

• 28:49Speaker 04

  Okay, a couple of things. Okay, first of all, Prius did it first.

• 28:52Doug DeMuro?

  A lot of cars do it. And you know what I've, you know what I've basically learned? Every car that has an aero style wheel cover, if you take off the aero style wheel cover, it looks better.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  I don't think that looks, it looks wrong for the car.

• 29:04Doug DeMuro?

  It's a better wheel, but it looks wrong for the car.

• 29:07Speaker 05

  He's saying, he's saying, forget the car.

• 29:08Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I'm not talking X whatever this is.

• 29:10Speaker 05

  Envision that wheel on an E, a Z3.

• 29:14Doug DeMuro?

  That's a nice looking five spoke. That looks kind of like the, the Z3M wheel, honestly. Like a little, that, that.

• 29:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's got that kind of, yeah, it's kind of interesting.

• 29:23Doug DeMuro?

  This is a nice looking wheel.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Can I ask a question? Are we going to be back despite everybody having, people had hubcaps. And then they had alloys. And suddenly you no longer saw hubcaps discarded on every corner in Philadelphia.

• 29:35Doug DeMuro?

  To be clear, there was actually, you're missing, Kennen and I had mag wheels. There was, there was a period in there.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 29:40Speaker 04

  If you drive around the city or Europe in the 90s, you would see hubcaps everywhere. Are we going to be back to that world?

• 29:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, these seem to be held on better. For example, remember when I had the Maybach GLS?

• 29:51Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 29:51Doug DeMuro?

  And we took off the Maybach wheel cover and then couldn't get it back on because the plastic tabs had.

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then I fixed it because I can do things.

• 29:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah, that was helpful. By the way, I need your help with a mechanical thing.

• 30:03Speaker 05

  What do you need me to do?

• 30:04Doug DeMuro?

  I have to get the spare tire out of my Sequoia before I drive it across country.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 30:08Doug DeMuro?

  So I think we should do that together.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  I'm so sorry. Last time you drove across country, you had a tire rupture. You needed the spare tire.

• 30:14Doug DeMuro?

  Right. So now I want to get the spare tire and put it in the trunk.

• 30:16Speaker 04

  Oh, I thought you might just like leave it.

• 30:17Speaker 05

  He's assuming it's going to happen again.

• 30:18Doug DeMuro?

  I'm afraid it'll happen again. Cause if it had happened to me in a rainstorm or in the middle of the night, it would have been a lot harder to get it out roadside. I might as well just take it out preemptively.

• 30:27Speaker 04

  Smart.

• 30:27Doug DeMuro?

  Thank you.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  So you don't think we'll see hubcap?

• 30:31Doug DeMuro?

  My point is simply that BMW makes an attractive wheel. They just hide it from the public. You know, what do you think? You know what? I bet if you peeled off a few layers of bodywork underneath, there's an E39M5.

• 30:42Speaker 05

  In this case, it's E3.

• 30:45Doug DeMuro?

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• 31:27Doug DeMuro?

  pricing, market trends, what's fair, what's not, and you don't have to guess anymore. You negotiate from a position of power, that's how you get a good deal. Car Edge is run by a father and son duo who are just as obsessed with this stuff as we are. They've been featured on The Today Show and in Consumer Reports and The Wall Street Journal. Their whole mission is to empower car buyers with real tools and insights, and I love that. Go check your invoice price first at Car Edge. It's 100% free, all major brands are covered, it could save you thousands, and it only requires an email address. Just head to caredge.com/carsandbids. Again, that's caredge.com/carsandbids. And a huge thanks to Car Edge for sponsoring this episode and for making it way harder for dealerships to pull a fast one.

• 32:12Speaker 05

  Okay, Carrera GT. I want to talk about Carrera GT.

• 32:14Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, famously a Formula One-derived.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  Formula One had nothing to do with that sport. It was never used in an F1 car, nor was it used in a Le Mans car. It was developed for them both.

• 32:23Doug DeMuro?

  In the Phoenix F1 race?

• 32:25Speaker 05

  No. That was the Footwork Arrows car.

• 32:28Doug DeMuro?

  But Porsche did make the motor.

• 32:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it was so bad that they were like, you know what, don't make us, and please, Footwork says, please Porsche, renowned performance manufacturer, stop making, stop doing it. Go back to playing with the Nikes.

• 32:41Doug DeMuro?

  The reason, the only reason that Porsche doesn't advertise that the Carrera GT's motor was derived from Formula One is because they made it preemptively, assuming they'd be rehired for the next season, and they weren't.

• 32:52Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 32:52Doug DeMuro?

  But okay, I want to tell you about the Carrera GT, which has a Formula One-derived V10.

• 32:56Speaker 05

  It does not.

• 32:57Doug DeMuro?

  I added up my miles because it hit me. I was just kind of curious how much I'm driving it. Listen to this. Since I bought my Carrera GT, I've driven my Ford GT 1,900 miles a year.

• 33:08Speaker 05

  What, that was two years? Oh, per year, okay.

• 33:10Doug DeMuro?

  I've driven my Carrera, I've driven my Countach 1,400 miles a year.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  Which is really impressive.

• 33:14Doug DeMuro?

  I've driven the G Cabrio 2,100 miles a year, and I've driven the Carrera GT 2,300 miles a year. I have driven the Carrera GT most since I bought it of any of my cars. And if you add in my Sequoia and you remove the cross-country trip, which I admit is, that's asking a lot because that is me driving the car. But if you remove that cross-country trip, I've even driven the Carrera GT more than the Sequoia.

• 33:37Speaker 05

  Wow, that's true because between cross-country trips, it sits in your house.

• 33:41Doug DeMuro?

  I drove it today because it hit me like this thing hasn't driven in probably a month, and somebody should drive it. I drove, driven the Carrera GT more than, and I still have the Mercedes station. My wife only drives it. I basically never drive that anymore. I have driven the Carrera GT the most of any of my cars.

• 33:57Speaker 05

  That is amazing. You're the only Carrera GT owner who can say that.

• 34:00Doug DeMuro?

  I have put 5,100 miles on the Carrera GT since I bought it in February of 23, two years ago.

• 34:06Speaker 05

  You bought it with 10,000 miles-ish.

• 34:08Doug DeMuro?

  98, yeah, 99.

• 34:09Speaker 05

  Over the course of 18 years.

• 34:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 05

  Somebody added 9,000 miles, 10,000 miles. Over the course of two years, you've added five.

• 34:18Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, that's the funny thing about it. Like I had, I had, remember I met with the original owner or the second owner, but he had it for like seven years, the guy, and we had lunch together. We talked about our experience of the car. He had the car for seven years, but in that time, he only had 2,000 miles to it. I, I beat that in a year. Proud of you.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  I mean, that's, proud of you.

• 34:35Doug DeMuro?

  It's just so addictive. It's so addictive.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  It's a testament to a couple of things. One, I think it's a testament to the servicing you've done to refresh that car and make it as modern and safe, honestly, as possible because the previous owner couldn't do that.

• 34:46Doug DeMuro?

  The previous owner of both the Carrera GT and the Countach, I think, were not up to the cars.

• 34:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I agree with that. I also think that it is testament to how good the car is that you would just rather grab the keys despite its value, which weighs on your mind when you use it.

• 34:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  It's so good, the experience just rivals the others. And I think that it's also just. I'm just glad that you're enjoying it. I know that that much probably has cost you probably a hundred grand.

• 35:08Doug DeMuro?

  I wonder. I mean, I don't know. I don't know, but.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  But you've done all these upgrades, so maybe not.

• 35:12Doug DeMuro?

  The thing, the thing that I learned though with the Ford GT is that like I've driven, I've driven the Ford GT since I bought it 12,500 miles in the Ford GT.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  That is nuts.

• 35:20Doug DeMuro?

  If that car had 12,500 miles on it, it would be considered a high mileage Ford GT. I've driven it 12,500 more miles. It's now got 43,800 miles. It's sitting behind me.

• 35:28Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 35:29Doug DeMuro?

  Um, that, what I learned though from that experience was people park those cars and save them. I've made a ton of money in that car. I'm probably in that car for 260 and I think it's worth 360. And so the thing that I learned was it didn't, obviously if I had parked it, it would be worth more, but it's not like, as Manny Koshman says, our hero, you don't go broke making a profit. Like I, I could have made more money, but I made money. Like I'm, you know what? I'm not like, responded about this and I assume the same thing will happen with the Carrera GTI.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  Wouldn't you rather just have the experience anyway? Like it's so good.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's also a testament to how drivable.

• 36:00Doug DeMuro?

  I think that's the real thing. It is a testament to the usability of the car. The car is actually quite.

• 36:05Speaker 04

  Well, not as big as door pedals, you know, they work.

• 36:07Doug DeMuro?

  And the thing that, the thing about the Carrera GT also that makes it so usable, it just blends in everywhere. So I feel pretty comfortable taking that car to places that you shouldn't take a car that's worth that much money. I got pictures of it at the Sprouts. I got, you know.

• 36:19Speaker 05

  Nobody like notices. My dad, my dad had a Carrera is usually the.

• 36:23Doug DeMuro?

  No, I had a boomer come up to me when I was washing it the other day in front of my house, into cars, has cars, works on old Jags and says, so was that a GT2? I'm like, I'm gonna move on.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  I mean, that's the, that is the party piece of that car, especially in silver, to be clear. Like I think that really helps. If it were red, it would be, or yellow.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  And it's like California where you do see.

• 36:42Doug DeMuro?

  A lot of Porsches.

• 36:43Speaker 05

  A lot of Porsches, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 04

  3s around.

• 36:44Speaker 05

  That's true. That's true.

• 36:46Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, yeah, absolutely.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  Um, congratulations. I keep driving the thing. I'm glad you're, glad you're enjoying it.

• 36:51Doug DeMuro?

  I, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm, I'm honestly surprised. I knew I was driving it a lot. I didn't realize I was driving it more than any of the other vehicles. Okay, the next thing I want to talk about is the Leno's Law situation. This is the California Senate bill that is intending to change the exemption for smog. Right now, the smog exemption is a cutoff at 1975. They're changing to make it roll 35 years. So, any car that's over 35 years will be smog exempt and each year that passes, another year becomes exempt, which is how it is in most states.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  And it's starting at the base of 1990, correct? I think that-

• 37:23Doug DeMuro?

  Well, yeah, because that's 35 years. So, it passed the Senate Transportation Committee already. Bipartisan support passes the Transportation Committee. Next, it goes to appropriations, then the full Senate, then the governor. Who knows if it's gonna pass? I don't really know. But I will say, it passed the, uh, there was a big news story about how it passed the Transportation Committee. And the reason I bring this up, because we've already talked about this, is there was a quote in the news articles about it passing from the American Lung Association Senior Director. His name is Will Barrett. And he said, and he said as a quote, "This is a real jailbreak for our air quality problems in California." And he basically said, "This is gonna make air quality worse." And I think this is intellectual dishonesty at its absolute worst.

• 38:06Doug DeMuro?

  This is the kind of stuff that I just can't stand. It's the same deal with the tariffs. "Oh, tariffs aren't a tax. They raise the prices and then the companies can choose whether they want to raise the prices or not, but they might not pass that raise along to the consumer." This is BS. This will have absolutely no effect on air quality in California. I was thinking about the other day, walking through my neighborhood. Do you have any idea how many old cars are registered out of state and just sit in my neighborhood?

• 38:31Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 38:32Doug DeMuro?

  Everyone is already operating all of these cars. This has stopped nobody from doing anything!

• 38:38Speaker 05

  Nope. All that's done is made Montana LLCs really popular.

• 38:42Doug DeMuro?

  And every other state. Arizona, and your brother in Oregon, and South Dakota, and all this stuff. And it is so intellectually dishonest to be like, "Now our air quality is gonna be worse." That is completely factually inaccurate. The only thing that'll change is that some of us will start registering these cars in California and California will actually make some money from it.

• 38:59Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 39:00Doug DeMuro?

  As opposed to right now, where I invite this fellow, Will Barrett of the American Lung Association, "Come to a Cars and Coffee with me." It is, it has- Fifty states will be represented in the parking lot of a Cars and Coffee. There are cars, cars that are Cars and Coffees that are coming from New Hampshire. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's laughable.

• 39:17Speaker 05

  It is laughable.

• 39:18Doug DeMuro?

  I do think there's so many of these out of state cars that enforcement has become simply too difficult.

• 39:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:22Doug DeMuro?

  The, the, the state, the highway patrol does not have the manpower to start randomly pulling over cars to figure out if this car is actually registered out of state and the person lives there, or if they don't, or whatever. It's just too onerous.

• 39:34Speaker 05

  And even so, the, the, the argument, and I think it's true, is the use case of these cars is so minute. People are driving them exact to Cars and Coffee, and that's pretty much it. Like, you're not, you don't want to go rock around in a 71 Pantera as a daily.

• 39:45Doug DeMuro?

  No. And, and that, and that is proof of the stupidity of this statement, is that like, people are, they're using the cars little enough that, that they're not, the law's not being enforced with regards to their registration locality. And so it's a moot point anyway. The cars aren't registered in California. They're still being used a little bit, but not enough to trigger enforcement. It's just so intellectually dishonest to make this claim that it's going to cause air quality problems in California. Absolutely will change nothing. Except that California will make a little bit more money, which is, which California seems to like.

• 40:20Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. Um, okay. Kenan, tell us about your M5 servicing.

• 40:24Speaker 05

  Ah, yes. So the M5 got its first service of the year. Now, I said at the very beginning of the year, one of my resolutions was that I was not going to spend more than $2,500 this year on maintenance loan, which is a pretty normal cost for a high-performance car.

• 40:35Doug DeMuro?

  Can I stop you real quick and, and give a little backstory to this service? Kenan tells us, you agree with everything I'm gonna say?

• 40:41Speaker 05

  I, I think so.

• 40:43Doug DeMuro?

  He says, this service, gotta do an oil change, and then also, there's all this stuff that had, had not been performed, that was supposed to be performed, that I'm gonna get for free because they were supposed to do it the first time. So we thought the service would be the cost of an oil change. Hundred and fifty, hundred and eighty bucks.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  Call it 200.

• 40:56Doug DeMuro?

  Call it 200.

• 40:57Speaker 05

  Good, good shop, lots of oil.

• 40:59Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 05

  It's a very, it's a very good shop. Right. There were some, there's some issues with the service that was performed before. There were some gaskets that weren't seated correctly, so the car was leaking a little bit of oil. And Ryan, being a man of his word at E39 Source, wanted to make it right and had his tech redo some of the seals. Now, what had to be done was dismantling the front of the engine, basically. Taking the timing covers off, valve cover gaskets were leaking, the timing covers were leaking. It's a lot of labor to do that, but Ryan stood behind it and wanted to make it right, and he did. However, while we were there, although I replaced everything related to the timing system, we ran into a couple of little issues.

• 41:28Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 05

  One was that we removed the thermostat and thermostat, removed the thermostat housing to gain, we gained more easy access to the stuff. Well, that disturbed the seal, so we wanted to put it back on the seal, ended up being destroyed, so we had to replace the thermostat.

• 41:40Doug DeMuro?

  Gotta put on the seal, gotta put on the thermostat.

• 41:42Speaker 05

  Which I, I recognize like that just how it is, so I split the cost of labor with, I agreed to split the cost of labor in parts with Ryan on that. Then there were, we put it, they, they put everything back together and the car all of a sudden had a misfire. And the tech came in and said to Ryan, he said, does, uh, does kind of this car ever have a misfires? And I was like, Kenan's car?

• 41:59Doug DeMuro?

  No.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  Absolutely not. And so they've, it turned out what it was, there was a vacuum leak, there's this little elbow that goes into the plenum. That was broken, that was pretty cheap, replace that. We also noticed that the studs that hold in the velocity stacks, a couple of them were a little loose and like the, the.

• 42:14Doug DeMuro?

  The velocity stacks.

• 42:15Speaker 05

  The velocity stacks, yes. My fear was that one, like a bolt could come undone and theory, it's not an unzera thing, it could get sucked into one of the.

• 42:22Doug DeMuro?

  That would be unfortunate.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  It could go directly into the intake and that poor velocity stacks.

• 42:26Doug DeMuro?

  To be fair to Kenan, he's gonna say the total bill in a minute. It was cheap when you consider the elbow to the plenum, the. The velocity stacks and the housing for the thermostat, like and that stuff, those are a lot of long words.

• 42:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, he does, he thinks that all of these are made up, but Doug doesn't know anything about mechanics.

• 42:43Speaker 04

  Velocity stack could be made up.

• 42:44Speaker 05

  That is not, it is absolutely not. Someone tell him he's wrong, he knows nothing about steering and velocity stacks. These are all, these are all things. So.

• 42:53Doug DeMuro?

  These are all things.

• 42:53Speaker 05

  These are all accurate statements. So it ended up being, uh, and I did an oil change and a Blackstone analysis as well.

• 43:00Doug DeMuro?

  Blackstone analysis as well.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  When does that come back? I'm curious. I'll follow up with you.

• 43:03Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm sure it'll be fine, but I just do it to have a trend. Yeah. I like to see how things are wearing. And anyway, it ended up being $837 for the first.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  But that does not include probably three full days of labor to fix the rest.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  It did take some time.

• 43:17Doug DeMuro?

  To his credit, the rest had been promised before. I, I don't, I don't fault you for the, I think.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 43:21Doug DeMuro?

  Now, I will say, you're over budget already.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  I am not over budget.

• 43:26Doug DeMuro?

  He's not over budget, but if you do the calculation.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  Two, one, we're a third of the way through the, I'll give him a third of the way through the year. He's on budget.

• 43:32Doug DeMuro?

  No, no, but his budget's 2,500. We're not quite a third of the way through the year and he's over 800.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  We're not quite a third of the year. I mean, come on. It's, it may as like next.

• 43:39Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, if, if, if Will Barrett from the American Lung Association is going to be intellectually dishonest, then I'm going to be intellectually dishonest.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  Don't stoop to Will Barrett's level.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  Will Barrett, we're sure you're a nice guy and I do support the American Lung Association.

• 43:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, you're wrong in this particular assertion, but you know, I understand your heart's in a nice place, but you're wrong to be wrong. I, I, by your calculation, I'm $37 over budget.

• 44:01Doug DeMuro?

  And, and maybe not even because, because we're not quite a third of the year, that 30, it's, you're probably like $12 over budget, actually.

• 44:06Speaker 04

  That's over budget, over budget.

• 44:08Doug DeMuro?

  Over budget, we're one of the business. When, I'll tell you something, when we're $12 over budget, you think our investors don't know? They get on and call us at 2 a.m.

• 44:16Speaker 05

  Well, I, based on your, the number of Hershey Kisses you order, we are.

• 44:20Doug DeMuro?

  They make Filippo do wind sprints.

• 44:23Speaker 05

  I, I'm pleased with me. I think that I'm headed in the right direction. I think things are fine. And the car is, and Ryan also said, there's nothing else to do on the car. He did an inspection, couldn't find anything. I'm very happy.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  To be fair, this is the first service in six months.

• 44:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, I had not touched the car.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  That's not bad.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Yeah. So, well, I think it's on, I think we're.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  Fortune T hasn't been serviced in two years. Well, you should maybe consider that.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. Doesn't it need like rear axle hubs?

• 44:49Doug DeMuro?

  Tire, we call those tires. They do go on the rear axle hub, but not very far out. Like there, there's a.

• 44:54Speaker 05

  The axle nuts that are on there, I think need to be replaced. There's some, there's a recall on them and you haven't done them.

• 44:58Doug DeMuro?

  Every recall that's ever happened on that car has been done.

• 45:01Speaker 05

  I think there's an open one.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  I mean, there are some issues. Well, we'll, we can just admit.

• 45:04Speaker 05

  There are some issues. Your gate, your, your, your.

• 45:06Doug DeMuro?

  The fuel gate works. It's just upside down. It's like a monkey hanging from a tree.

• 45:11Speaker 04

  You turn on the left blinker and just.

• 45:14Doug DeMuro?

  That's OE, every Ford GT.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  The last time I drove with the right blinker did the same thing.

• 45:18Doug DeMuro?

  No, they both do it.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 45:20Doug DeMuro?

  Every blinker makes, in the Ford GT, the 05 Ford GT is very weird, but every, when you turn the blinker, when it blinks, it doesn't just click, although it does click, it also goes woo.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  No, but it doesn't seem intentional.

• 45:29Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's related to whatever the mechanic, when you have, I will say, when you have the radio on, you don't hear it all. I hadn't remembered that that happened.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  I wanted to hear the sound of the engine. As a true enthusiast.

• 45:38Doug DeMuro?

  As an enthusiast, he doesn't even know about, plenty of elbows.

• 45:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, or steering.

• 45:44Doug DeMuro?

  His knowledge is minimal. Not only does, he doesn't know about anything from the intricacy of plenty of elbows to the simplicity of steering. He doesn't have any, he's, him and Will Barrett probably have the same car knowledge.

• 45:57Speaker 05

  Boy, he knows every trim of Fiat multiple that exists.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  As everybody should.

• 46:02Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, I want to talk, uh, market report very quickly because we have to move on to questions which were excellent this week. Uh, the market report is brought to you by Cars and Bids merch.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  You can access it at merch.carsandbids.com.

• 46:17Doug DeMuro?

  And you can support the Italian autostrada. I want to talk about one result from last week that really stood out to me and then we can move on to yours which were better. The Xterra. Can you go to carsandbids.com, not merch.carsandbids.com, although you should also go there to buy merch?

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 46:31Doug DeMuro?

  Did you see this? Do you know this?

• 46:33Speaker 04

  No.

• 46:34Doug DeMuro?

  I almost featured this. This green Xterra. This is OE color, by the way.

• 46:37Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 46:37Doug DeMuro?

  It was called, it was only two model years, it was called metallic green, which is a terrible name for something.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  Really creative.

• 46:43Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. This car was an Xterra.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  It was.

• 46:47Doug DeMuro?

  It had a five point, all the Xterras had V6s.

• 46:49Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 46:50Doug DeMuro?

  It had a 5.6 liter V8 swap from a Nissan Titan.

• 46:53Speaker 04

  Nissan Armada.

• 46:54Doug DeMuro?

  Or whatever, same motor. Hooks right up, somehow. No warning lights, like it was done right.

• 46:59Speaker 04

  With the automatic transmission from the Armada as well.

• 47:02Doug DeMuro?

  Right, so it's not gonna over, Ken, this thing, four wheel drive, in this special color, very late model Xterra too, I think was last year 12?

• 47:09Speaker 04

  Sounds right.

• 47:10Doug DeMuro?

  Around there.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  13 maybe, but.

• 47:11Doug DeMuro?

  Somewhere, it was a later, later second gen, so second gen and a later model to come to that. So.

• 47:16Speaker 04

  How cool.

• 47:17Doug DeMuro?

  Unbelievably cool. So this thing is sitting at six grand the night before it's selling, and I know the reserve is higher than that. And I was thinking to myself, this would be a kinda cool, like, extra car. Like.

• 47:27Speaker 04

  It would be, it would be.

• 47:28Doug DeMuro?

  Pretty cool. Like, Will Barrett would be mad at me, right? But I, this would be cool.

• 47:34Doug DeMuro?

  So I'm thinking about it and then the next day I check and sold for $22,000. And what I wanted to say about this, not in particular about this Xterra, but, but in general, good swaps bring all the money.

• 47:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:47Doug DeMuro?

  We talked about it with that E39 M5 wagon swap and this too. Like this guy didn't just put a 5.6 in it and then do stupid wheels and stupid off-road mods and make it look dumb. This looks OE, but it has a 5.6. And if you want to take it from there, you can. But that M5 was another good example, that M5 wagon. That guy took an E39 Touring and just made it into like a clone M5. Good swaps bring all, all, all the money. And this continues to be the case. I know 22 doesn't seem like that much for an Xterra, but that's a $9,000 car.

• 48:15Speaker 04

  It's more than some of its parts. A regular Xterra with that miles plus under the cost of an Armada.

• 48:19Doug DeMuro?

  An Armada.

• 48:20Speaker 04

  You're at 10.

• 48:21Doug DeMuro?

  You got an Xterra and an Armada.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  For 10. And then this dude had a 12 grand value.

• 48:26Speaker 05

  This is a business.

• 48:27Doug DeMuro?

  66. You really could, like if, and this guy actually in the comments was saying, did you read the comments at all? He was in Missouri and he was like, yeah, I've done a bunch of these. He's like, this is like the 10th one I've done, but I'm moving on to another one. And, and he throws V8s into Xterras.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 48:43Speaker 05

  Well, if he keeps, I mean, with this result, hopefully he keeps flipping them on cars in business.

• 48:46Doug DeMuro?

  I just think that swaps are really great if they're done really, really well, which, which means it looks like it should have been factory, it drives like it should have been factory, it doesn't need a standalone and a, and a gauge cluster. Like it really is, and when you do it right, you get all the money included.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  What other swaps would you want to see?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  Like what some, or for you in particular?

• 49:03Doug DeMuro?

  You know what another great one was?

• 49:04Speaker 04

  I don't do much.

• 49:05Doug DeMuro?

  Remember that Transit Connect that was Focus ST swapped?

• 49:07Speaker 05

  Oh, yes.

• 49:08Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, I do. That's another good example.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  That was good.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  That's a good one.

• 49:13Doug DeMuro?

  That was cool. Good swaps do bring the money.

• 49:16Speaker 05

  Very interesting.

• 49:17Doug DeMuro?

  Remember that F80 M3 wagon?

• 49:19Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 49:20Doug DeMuro?

  That was cool too.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, it'd be hard to find at this point, probably.

• 49:25Speaker 05

  For example, using the search function.

• 49:28Doug DeMuro?

  72 grand and this was a salvage title car, wasn't it?

• 49:31Speaker 05

  I sure was.

• 49:32Doug DeMuro?

  So cool. I considered this thing. I consider all the swaps. Cause I don't have the mechanical knowledge or the time, honestly, even if I did to do this myself, but a lot of these times it's stuff that you would, you wished existed.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  I do wish that existed.

• 49:43Doug DeMuro?

  This would have been cool. A V8 Xterra would have been cool.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Would have been cool.

• 49:47Doug DeMuro?

  All right. Give us your market report, Filippo.

• 49:49Speaker 04

  Can we talk about Golf R Spectrums? So for a model year, two model years?

• 49:54Doug DeMuro?

  Just type in Golf R.

• 49:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, the most recent one we did was, I had that.

• 49:58Doug DeMuro?

  Oh my god, that's what that sold for?

• 49:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, so for big money. So the Golf R Spectrum offered 40 custom-ish colors to Golf R buyers. Nobody bought these colors. 199 people bought in the US, bought a Spectrum.

• 50:12Doug DeMuro?

  Wait, so it wasn't limited to 199? It was available to anybody and only 199 people chose it?

• 50:16Speaker 04

  I think, no, sorry, they only produced 199. I also think they only found buyers for 199. I think they would have done it again. The, and they bring big money. A regular 2019 Golf R with 26,000 miles, at this point in an automatic, is somewhere in the twenties.

• 50:32Doug DeMuro?

  Wow, this is probably double.

• 50:33Speaker 04

  This is double that because of the color.

• 50:35Doug DeMuro?

  It's cool.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  A new Golf R, a brand new Golf R.

• 50:38Doug DeMuro?

  We have sold a couple of them.

• 50:39Speaker 04

  Sorry, ju- just scroll back up. A brand new Golf R.

• 50:42Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  With, with 4,000 miles and 26,000 and a stick, which is what I wrote, sold for the same.

• 50:48Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, and a stick, like you said. So, so a third of the miles, a new, it's a new body.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  Crazy, yeah.

• 50:52Doug DeMuro?

  And a manual, and it sold for the same.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  And I, can I just, we are clearly the place for Spectrum Golf R's, by the way.

• 50:59Doug DeMuro?

  We sold a few.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  One sold on a competing platform, literally this week, that had half as many miles and was a stick. It was in the better color and sold for like a grand more with, while being a notably more.

• 51:10Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 04

  Appealing car. We are clearly the space. If you search Spectrum with a K, I bet you'll find, find it. The other ones, because we are the place for these.

• 51:21Doug DeMuro?

  They're so cool. Man, we, we got 52 for that one.

• 51:24Speaker 04

  Early on, yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 05

  I remember that one, yeah.

• 51:26Doug DeMuro?

  These are so, so, so cool.

• 51:29Speaker 04

  They're worth money.

• 51:30Doug DeMuro?

  Viper green.

• 51:31Speaker 04

  Good, good colors worth, it's true in Porsche world, it's true kind of everywhere that colors bring money.

• 51:35Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  Spectrum colors.

• 51:36Doug DeMuro?

  The Spectrum cars are really cool. I saw this one come up and I was pretty jazzed by it.

• 51:40Speaker 05

  It's so cool.

• 51:41Speaker 04

  Anyone blue's not.

• 51:41Doug DeMuro?

  The thing is.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  I have personal opinions about every Spectrum color. No, I do, there's Spectrum colors that I, can you pull up all the Spectrum colors, please? There are 40.

• 51:50Doug DeMuro?

  He's a Volkswagen guy now.

• 51:51Speaker 04

  No, I've always loved the Spectrum colors. They're just great colors. Yeah, there are 40 colors.

• 51:57Doug DeMuro?

  Did all 40 get bought?

• 51:59Speaker 04

  Uh, some of them, my recollection had like one got bought.

• 52:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, because we, we, we posted about one of the 91 blue ones that it was one of 12. So if you figure that a few of them had 12, then probably some of these probably there were zero.

• 52:10Speaker 04

  Hopefully we can find them. But there are some wild, wild colors.

• 52:14Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, that is so cool. That orange looks pretty cool.

• 52:18Speaker 04

  Some of the greens are really beautiful, the burgundy, cool colors. 91 blue, to be clear, is a good color.

• 52:23Doug DeMuro?

  The thing about it is the Golf R is a special car, obviously. It's desirable and it's cool. However, um, they're not, they're not distinct from each other. They were almost all, they were, oh, there were only a few colors, right? There was like blue, black, white, gray. So to be able to do anything that like sets it apart from the other ones is pretty special. Particularly when you're talking about only 199 cars. If they had done this for a whole model year and 6,000 cars that come out would be different. But this is legitimately rare. If you're looking for a spectrum and one comes up, you gotta buy it.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  You gotta buy, if you want a spectrum, you gotta just choose whatever spectrum you can get.

• 52:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  I'm here for it.

• 52:55Doug DeMuro?

  I love it. Uh, Kenan, tell us about the Panos Roadster.

• 53:00Speaker 00

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• 53:30Speaker 01

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• 53:42Speaker 02

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• 53:45Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, so I, I, when I was young, I remember having a book that like just had a variety of sports cars in it. And one of the ones I thought that was the weirdest and the coolest was the Panos Roadster. We finally got to sell one on Cars Bids. I'm so happy. So this, this was special because this was one of the later ones, the A, A4, A5. I don't remember how, AIV, I don't know how they brought up.

• 54:05Doug DeMuro?

  Weren't they all AIV?

• 54:06Speaker 05

  No, I think there was a Roadster before and then the AIV came later.

• 54:10Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know much about these. I've always wanted to review one, but they are so uncommon.

• 54:13Speaker 05

  So uncommon and in my opinion, this was the idea, like.

• 54:19Speaker 05

  It's perfect. It's like the execution that I would like to see from a weird car.

• 54:23Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 05

  V8 power, manual transmission, like it's what.

• 54:25Doug DeMuro?

  It's a better Prowler.

• 54:26Speaker 05

  It's exactly. The Prowler should have always been a V8.

• 54:29Doug DeMuro?

  And by the way, I love the Prowler, but imagine if I had a stick in a V8 and was littler. Like this car is small and it's aluminum intensive.

• 54:35Speaker 05

  Yes, very much so. And they, I mean.

• 54:37Doug DeMuro?

  That's what it stood for. Is that what AIV stood for?

• 54:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, but nonetheless, really cool and brought like good money for 41.3. Like this is like Gen one, like nice Gen one Dodge Viper money.

• 54:48Doug DeMuro?

  Was it Mustang? Was it a Mustang interior? It was a Mustang V8, right? Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:52Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. No, it's better than a Mustang.

• 54:55Speaker 05

  Some stuff.

• 54:55Doug DeMuro?

  That gauge cluster.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  Mustang radio.

• 54:57Speaker 05

  Gauge cluster is.

• 54:58Speaker 04

  But the surrounds are different.

• 55:00Speaker 05

  The climate control definitely is. But look at that. Man, you were actually literally sitting on the.

• 55:04Doug DeMuro?

  That's a cool car. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta do one of these.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a Mustang. They made 176.

• 55:09Doug DeMuro?

  They only made 176?

• 55:10Speaker 04

  According to third party sources.

• 55:12Speaker 05

  Just like the 199 spectrums, they could only sell 176 of these.

• 55:16Doug DeMuro?

  I think this car is cool as hell. I'm, I agree with you. I'm glad we got one on site. I'm glad we sold it. I have no idea what the market is for these cars.

• 55:22Speaker 05

  Mid, mid 40s is like kinda normal for these. So like, so we're pretty, pretty close there.

• 55:27Doug DeMuro?

  I will say, I wouldn't be surprised if the color had a slightly detrimental effect for this one.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Sadly.

• 55:31Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 55:32Doug DeMuro?

  The bright color, the red was what it was most famous for.

• 55:34Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 55:35Doug DeMuro?

  Probably 12 of the 146.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:38Doug DeMuro?

  Um, but this is sort of, this sort of maroon is not quite with the, keeping with the purpose of the car, right? It's like a crazy ridiculous sports car and then it's like too classy of a color.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  It just seems like a, like a, it seems very British to me and the purple works.

• 55:48Speaker 05

  It is very, it is very weird burgundy. On the topic of weird and Panos, this is another very odd thing about me. On my bicycle when I was a kid, I had a Ferrari series because I pretended it was my Ferrari. I also had this thing. It was called a trike. It was like you'd stand on it and you'd like kind of ski side to side with it. A very weird thing on that I put a Panos.

• 56:04Doug DeMuro?

  Because it looked like this?

• 56:05Speaker 05

  It looked so weird and it was such an odd device and that's how I feel about this car. But I, I think they're so damn cool.

• 56:12Doug DeMuro?

  They are.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  I've never seen one in person. Would love to. Can't imagine how it drives.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  This is like, okay, you, you, you take a Mustang GT engine, the supercharged V8.

• 56:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. Look at that.

• 56:23Speaker 04

  Manual. Yeah. And you. Which is what, like 10, 15, 20 grand?

• 56:27Doug DeMuro?

  Are you trying to build one of these?

• 56:28Speaker 04

  No, I'm just trying to think about how much it's worth to me.

• 56:31Speaker 05

  That won't work here.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  I've been trying to think about how much it's worth to me, right? It's like a good SVT Cobra is 20.

• 56:36Doug DeMuro?

  You know what your problem is?

• 56:37Speaker 04

  Like a, no.

• 56:37Doug DeMuro?

  Can I tell you what your problem is?

• 56:39Speaker 04

  This adds 20K of value to me compared to a regular SVT Cobra. That's what I'm getting at. This seems like a deal for how weird it looks.

• 56:45Doug DeMuro?

  I agree, but nonetheless, do you know what your problem is?

• 56:49Speaker 04

  I agree, but.

• 56:50Doug DeMuro?

  The specialness of the car, even if this was 100 grand, the specialness of the car is intangible. You can't look at it, you can't look at everything from a cost benefit.

• 57:00Speaker 04

  You're pro NFTs, I guess. You want it to be not a physical object.

• 57:05Doug DeMuro?

  All right. Let me tell you something. If you're going to try to analyze everything based on dollar value, the 250 GTO is going to kick your butt.

• 57:13Speaker 04

  Have I ever expressed any interest in 250 GTO?

• 57:15Doug DeMuro?

  But the market has shown you that it believes what the 250 GTO is worth. And so the market tells you, you're wrong.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. Just like the velocity sex thing.

• 57:25Doug DeMuro?

  All right, move on. We got to move on to questions. We got to move on to questions. Uh, the questions today are brought to you by Cars and Bids merch. You can access it by going to, uh, Will Barrett's home.

• 57:36Speaker 05

  Poor Will Barrett.

• 57:37Doug DeMuro?

  All right. Uh, there's a few good questions today. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to decide if I should give you a rank question or not, uh, or spare you the rank question.

• 57:44Speaker 04

  What, what's the vehicle in question?

• 57:46Doug DeMuro?

  We'll find out in a minute. Uh, but there are some good questions and I had to go deep to find the really good ones, like I usually do, but this time I went really deep and I found some with no uploads, but they were really insightful. So first question from Joe Han. What do you think? This is a really good one. Don't look at it. Don't, early question.

• 58:03Speaker 05

  He cheats everything.

• 58:04Doug DeMuro?

  What do you think the DeLorean's reputation would be in a hypothetical world where Back to the Future didn't exist? Now, his question continues, but the car was released as intended with a proper V6. Let's start, let's start with just imagining it released as it was with no Back to the Future.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  Can I answer the question?

• 58:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  The Brickland.

• 58:23Doug DeMuro?

  Brickland SV1. That was exactly what I was thinking. No one would care.

• 58:26Speaker 05

  It would be an obscure, weird, you'd see it occasionally at car shows. Wouldn't really know much about them. I'd be like, oh yeah, I kind of vaguely remember that.

• 58:31Doug DeMuro?

  So your contention is that as much as DeLorean owners complain and moan about all the people that come up to them and ask them if it'll hit 88 miles an hour.

• 58:40Speaker 05

  It's the only.

• 58:40Doug DeMuro?

  It's the only reason. Yeah, fundamentally, the biggest problem for any new automaker or company or startup or whatever is discovery, right? How do you get people to find out you have a product? And then they might fall in love with it. Yeah. Nobody would have found out about it and nobody would have fallen in love with it. Yeah. But also. And especially it wouldn't have endured. I mean, they would have sold them in period. Weird stuff was going on.

• 59:00Speaker 05

  Plus, Marty McFly goes, "You made a time machine out of a DeLorean?"

• 59:05Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  I think he was surprised the fact that it was, not that it was the time machine, that a DeLorean existed, that he was seeing one. That was, I think that was the surprise.

• 59:12Doug DeMuro?

  And that was his choice. Like, you could have had all, you chose this thing? Um, I do think that. Now, his question continues to say, "What if it was built as originally intended with a proper V6?" Or imagine it with a V8. Like, what if it had actually been a good, really good driving car? Would that have changed anything? No. Probably not. We have the Pantera here in the office, which, which.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Does drive really well.

• 59:34Doug DeMuro?

  It drives well, fantastic, very cool special car. Ultimately, did not have any successors, did not become a brand like Ferrari or Lamborghini, whatever. That would have happened or not. There are a lot of good cars that nobody cares about. Oh, wow. That's an interesting. Are you thinking specifically of the Mercury Topaz? I am now. That's all I'm thinking about now. Um, it's a very interesting question, and I totally agree with your point of view. You, you agree with it also? Okay. Uh, next question from SDR Neb. Oh. Esther Neb.

• 1:00:08Speaker 05

  Esther.

• 1:00:10Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, "What is today's equivalent to the Trans-Siberia or the gated LP640, i.e. trims and specs that make the cars unsellable today, but they will be the one to have for later enthusiasts?" That's pretty easy. I need more time on the question. I need, I need a day. Like, I need a full day where I'm not doing anything else. The Storato is the obvious one that comes to mind. Too obvious. Uh, Storato has not. The Storato is sellable. It has not been a seller. Not that well. It has not been a seller. And on the used market, they're way under MSRP. However, it is very clear to me what's going to happen in that car. The cars, it is generally agreed that the cars that people hate in period are the cars that end up becoming amazing later. I mean, I was a kid. I remember, I was, I was 15 when the 02 to 05 NSX was on sale. Mm-hmm. Nobody wanted the. Car. Acura dealers would have them for 18 months.

• 1:00:55Doug DeMuro?

  They might as well have screwed them into the showroom floor.

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  Didn't like in the final, I feel like there was one year where they sold like 50 of them. It was like, it was like the numbers were laughably low at the end.

• 1:01:05Doug DeMuro?

  And now it's the most desirable version. Same with the S2000 CR. I remember when the S2000 CR came out, I was 21. It was, it was joked about in the car magazines as being a stupid pathetic run out attempt to sell Honda S2000s, which at that time was a 10 year old product. Right. It came out in 2000 and by 09 was a 10 year old product.

• 1:01:22Speaker 05

  I drove this one. It was a one owner car. And that's exactly, as I said, people laughed at him for buying it. Well, they didn't laugh at the end. He held it that whole time and.

• 1:01:28Doug DeMuro?

  I once got an email from a guy. I once got an email from a guy who bought an M, an S54M coupe in Phoenix yellow off a showroom floor.

• 1:01:35Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:01:36Doug DeMuro?

  It had been sitting for a year and he brought it home and his friends laughed at him and he kept it. And he emailed me maybe three years ago, asking if I want to review it. He was in New Jersey. I wasn't going to go there to do it, but I remember reading the email. And of course that's a hundred K car. He had, you know, 20,000 miles.

• 1:01:48Speaker 05

  Yep. Easily.

• 1:01:51Doug DeMuro?

  Meanwhile, his friends were, but his friends were buying like, you know, 996s that lost two thirds of their value in an afternoon.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  That becomes a question. Will the SF90?

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  No. Cause it won't be supported. It won't run. It'll be a paperweight.

• 1:02:05Doug DeMuro?

  But the question is, and, and by the way, another example, the 599 Alonso edition. I remember everybody laughed at that.

• 1:02:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. And they.

• 1:02:12Doug DeMuro?

  And we still do.

• 1:02:14Speaker 05

  We still do. They're real money though. For no reason.

• 1:02:17Doug DeMuro?

  997 Speedster, there's a million of these. So the question is, what are the today's cars that are like this? Uh, and the answer is, I really would want to spend time thinking about it.

• 1:02:24Speaker 04

  Let's, but a lot of.

• 1:02:25Doug DeMuro?

  Let's circle back next week. Okay.

• 1:02:27Speaker 05

  Well, I was gonna say, I mean, there's some Porsches, I mean, I feel like the sport classic probably one of those. And maybe the Dakar will too.

• 1:02:32Doug DeMuro?

  Those cars are beloved, right?

• 1:02:34Speaker 05

  I know, but they're gonna.

• 1:02:35Doug DeMuro?

  There'd be more, being beloved and then being be more beloved is not, it does not qualify.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  To be hated. Make sure you subscribe to the Doug De Niro channel and then follow our podcast on Apple Podcasts.

• 1:02:45Doug DeMuro?

  New NSX Type S.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Talk about it next week.

• 1:02:47Doug DeMuro?

  I think new NSX Type S has a chance.

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  You do love to say about the NSX.

• 1:02:50Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think the NSX in general, but they only made 2000 new NSXs or 3000. It's rarer than the Ford GT and the Type S specifically is a special car. I think there's a small chance that the seven-speed manual bandages last like current gen or last gen now, but modern.

• 1:03:09Speaker 05

  Like special Astons in general.

• 1:03:10Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe. Yeah, maybe. It's a maybe. I gotta ponder.

• 1:03:15Speaker 05

  If they win Le Mans this year.

• 1:03:17Doug DeMuro?

  But I will basically tell you that any performance car that is hated, pretty much, I can think of very few examples where that car does not later become beloved. Those A91 MT Supras.

• 1:03:29Speaker 05

  They're already going up.

• 1:03:30Doug DeMuro?

  They are, which is why it's a little wrong to say this, but, but, you know, the new Supra is just a BMW. It's not the same. Eh, I have a suspicion where that car is headed. The good ones, anyway. Okay, I'll give you a week to think about it.

• 1:03:42Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:03:43Doug DeMuro?

  Storato is the obvious one.

• 1:03:44Speaker 05

  Yep, that's too obvious.

• 1:03:45Doug DeMuro?

  It's so obvious, it's too obvious. Too obvious. Next question from Oh Yes Yes. Doug, any regrets on not going balls to the wall and buying an F40 after the investment to Cars and Bids? Yeah, some. I mean, it's a tough one. The F40 was what I wanted, you know, when we were in talks to do the investment, even before we had actually finished the investment. I had engaged the services of, of my friend Matt, the Cultivated Collector, to look for a F40. Ultimately, we didn't find it in my price range. Sometimes I regret it. But remember, I just said that I did 5,000 miles in my Carrera GT. No way I would have done that in the F40.

• 1:04:19Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:04:20Doug DeMuro?

  There's no way.

• 1:04:20Speaker 05

  And also, you got to have the Carrera GT and the Countach, which are, it's not an F40, but it's similar experience.

• 1:04:26Doug DeMuro?

  The Countach provides a pretty similar experience, and in some ways, actually, a better one, because it has the V12 and it's definitely more insane looking. And so those two things, I think, have a really big thing.

• 1:04:37Speaker 05

  And it's also not as scary to use.

• 1:04:39Doug DeMuro?

  To use because of the value.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  Well, and that's the way the F40 builds boost and it's, you know.

• 1:04:43Doug DeMuro?

  The, it would have been, there are days when I wish I had an F40 in there. I guarantee if I had bought the F40, there would be days where I wished that I had bought the Carrera GT. I think the dream is to have both, and it's tough. But I think that if you make a big purchase like that and can only choose one, any, you always have regrets. It's kind of funny. People always do hypotheticals, and it's always like, if you have enough money for such and such, you have enough money for the other one. And it's, no, not always. Like, I was in that situation in one of those, like, if you can only buy one car, like, you know, kids do on the playground, like, that was me. And I had to choose, and I chose one. And I chose the one that is more usable, and I use it more, and I don't, I don't, I think that I made the better choice. I would say 80% of me agrees with the choice I made, but there's always gonna be that 20%. And I think if it went the other way, I would still feel that way.

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  There was a lot of debate before you bought either.

• 1:05:30Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan is still hates me for it.

• 1:05:32Speaker 04

  Yep, a little bit.

• 1:05:34Speaker 05

  No, I love that you used the Courage GT. I really love the Countach.

• 1:05:38Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  The F40, I mean, you say we would normalize an F40, I'd.

• 1:05:42Doug DeMuro?

  If I hadn't added the Countach, I think I would regret it more.

• 1:05:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally. You needed the buzzer.

• 1:05:47Doug DeMuro?

  The one cool thing about the Courage GT Countach combo is that I think those two cars do everything better than the F40. Except for maybe being the icon, although the Countach is, for the general public, is probably more iconic than the F40.

• 1:05:59Speaker 05

  Yes, but we aren't the general public. We're car enthusiasts, and so the F40 is the one.

• 1:06:02Doug DeMuro?

  Hates me. Yep. Okay.

• 1:06:04Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:06:04Doug DeMuro?

  Next question. Okay, I'm gonna do it. We're gonna do a rank.

• 1:06:07Speaker 04

  All right. I've opened my computer just to write down my thoughts.

• 1:06:10Doug DeMuro?

  Write down, I also need you to write down the cars, because it's a little more complicated than a normal one. Rank all of the big 90s Japanese sports cars.

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:06:17Doug DeMuro?

  This is tough.

• 1:06:18Speaker 05

  That's really hard.

• 1:06:20Doug DeMuro?

  Cars are only the top level.

• 1:06:21Speaker 04

  NSX, Subra.

• 1:06:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, NSX, Subra, 3000 GT, 300 ZX, Subaru SVX.

• 1:06:28Speaker 05

  FDRX7.

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  Uh, FDRX7, yep.

• 1:06:32Doug DeMuro?

  FDRX7. That's, and, and you know what? Put R34 on there, put Skyline.

• 1:06:37Speaker 05

  R34 and R33?

• 1:06:38Doug DeMuro?

  Put Skyline GT-R, just put Skyline GT-R.

• 1:06:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Doug DeMuro?

  And put, um, that's basically it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:06:45Doug DeMuro?

  And I'm not gonna go STI and Evo, they weren't.

• 1:06:47Speaker 04

  They were different.

• 1:06:48Doug DeMuro?

  They were, they were rally four-door kind of thing.

• 1:06:49Speaker 04

  And we're just saying 90s in general.

• 1:06:52Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, and I'm not going Integra Type R, because we got an NSX on here, and I think that that's the one.

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  I'm gonna throw out an order.

• 1:06:57Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:06:58Speaker 04

  Just to get this started.

• 1:06:59Doug DeMuro?

  So wait, there's, so there's.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  There's seven of these.

• 1:07:02Doug DeMuro?

  There's six. There's six of these?

• 1:07:04Speaker 04

  Six of these.

• 1:07:05Speaker 05

  That's really hard.

• 1:07:06Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:07:07Speaker 04

  I have an order. I'm gonna make a column for me, a column for Doug, a column for Kenan.

• 1:07:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  They're all really different.

• 1:07:13Doug DeMuro?

  All right, everybody, take a second, think to yourself.

• 1:07:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:07:16Speaker 04

  I'm doing that.

• 1:07:17Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, I think we, I just Googled them, and I think we have them all. You got the SVX in there, right?

• 1:07:22Speaker 04

  Uh, no.

• 1:07:23Doug DeMuro?

  No, you got, you gotta put the SVX on.

• 1:07:25Speaker 04

  I'm not putting that.

• 1:07:26Doug DeMuro?

  No, SVX has to go on.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  I'm not putting that.

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  That's on there, the S20, S20 on there.

• 1:07:32Doug DeMuro?

  We're talking the pinnacle cars.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  The SVX did not have 276 horsepower, therefore didn't count.

• 1:07:36Doug DeMuro?

  We're talking pinnacle cars.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  276 horsepower.

• 1:07:38Doug DeMuro?

  Get out a six-cylinder. The RX7 didn't even have a six-cylinder.

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  But it had 276 horsepower, right?

• 1:07:43Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  Well done. Rotary, all the rotary bros rolled their eyes.

• 1:07:47Doug DeMuro?

  There are gonna be people who eviscerate you for this.

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

  Good.

• 1:07:52Speaker 05

  Cleveland wants the hate.

• 1:07:53Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, I'm gonna, the SVX could be on my list.

• 1:07:55Speaker 04

  People are not gonna like my answers. So that's all I'm gonna say.

• 1:07:58Doug DeMuro?

  All right, wait, we gotta talk it through. I don't wanna, I don't wanna just have you do it in silence. So.

• 1:08:03Speaker 05

  He's on slide.

• 1:08:04Doug DeMuro?

  Let's, let's first off, let's, let's, let's rank, let's do last first. I would think the SVX.

• 1:08:09Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm not even that's yet on this list. I love Subaru. I love two-tone cars. Nah, no SVX.

• 1:08:14Doug DeMuro?

  The SVX is especially last because it was, in the US, they were automatic only, and the automatic wasn't even good enough to handle the power that it had, which was 200 horsepower. They all destroyed their, okay.

• 1:08:25Speaker 04

  SVX last for all three of us, we can all agree?

• 1:08:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, done. Okay, next to last, and I'm gonna, you're gonna upset a community no matter what you do.

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:08:33Doug DeMuro?

  However, again, I wanna point out that this is a ranking of great cars.

• 1:08:39Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:08:40Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:08:41Speaker 05

  And it's really hard to pick between these.

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  And it's not one where I'm gonna, I've thought about it for approximately five seconds. I might, I could be swayed.

• 1:08:48Doug DeMuro?

  The, the last, the next last one is the 3000 GT, and I'll tell you why. The base models were front-wheel drive.

• 1:08:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:56Doug DeMuro?

  Which is true of no other car on this list. What?

• 1:09:01Speaker 04

  Okay, we're talking base model Skyline GT-R? Oh, wait, we're not.

• 1:09:06Doug DeMuro?

  And actually, the base Skylines were front-wheel drive.

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  So like, like, what, what are we doing here?

• 1:09:11Doug DeMuro?

  But, but, but there were so many, 3000 GT, there were only three versions. What are we doing?

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  We're not talking about the baseball, we're talking about the, the car.

• 1:09:19Doug DeMuro?

  The car as a general, included the base model.

• 1:09:20Speaker 05

  But you think that's better than the Z32? Like, I don't.

• 1:09:23Doug DeMuro?

  Then, really? Yeah. You have driven them?

• 1:09:26Speaker 05

  Uh, no, I have.

• 1:09:27Doug DeMuro?

  I drove a late, I drove a late VR4. It was a good car.

• 1:09:30Speaker 04

  So you, you, I put the 3000 GT just above the, the 3000 ZX.

• 1:09:35Speaker 05

  I actually agree with that.

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  Okay, well, so you're changing your ranking?

• 1:09:37Doug DeMuro?

  No, 3000 GT is last.

• 1:09:39Speaker 04

  Okay, I put 3000 ZX last.

• 1:09:40Doug DeMuro?

  Although I love the GT and the Dodge Stealth.

• 1:09:43Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:09:44Doug DeMuro?

  Designed by the man who did the Lamborghini Diablo.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  Um, are we verified?

• 1:09:48Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, that is true.

• 1:09:50Speaker 04

  Uh, what are you putting third to last?

• 1:09:51Doug DeMuro?

  Well, wait, second to la, oh, oh, yeah, cuz the SVX. Um, third to last, I'm only doing it because you have to, the 300ZX has to be next. Okay.

• 1:10:01Speaker 04

  Because you and I have those flipped, but we're in the same.

• 1:10:03Doug DeMuro?

  You have to put the 300ZX next, and we're only talking about the Z32. And you, the reason you have to do that is because your remaining cars are the NSX, the Supra, the Skyline GT-R, and the FD.

• 1:10:12Speaker 05

  Like icons.

• 1:10:13Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 1:10:13Speaker 05

  Like genuine icons.

• 1:10:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, because the Z32, 300ZX is a seriously good car.

• 1:10:18Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Doug DeMuro?

  But the next four are some of the, probably the four greatest cars Japan ever made.

• 1:10:22Speaker 05

  Right, and, and some, and in their time, some of the most compelling cars.

• 1:10:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  Period.

• 1:10:26Doug DeMuro?

  Period. Okay, so, um, what's first?

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  I am saying NSX first.

• 1:10:35Doug DeMuro?

  I'm a Mark IV guy, man.

• 1:10:36Speaker 04

  Here's the benefit of the NSX, it's the only, well, that, to be fair, and the FD RX7 are the only purpose-built sports cars. The Supra had lower-trim versions, it's not really as, like, deliberately, it's not mid-engine, it's not as sports-car-y.

• 1:10:51Doug DeMuro?

  That's true.

• 1:10:51Speaker 04

  As an NSX.

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  And the NSX, although I still always feel they're a little underpowered, is one of the best balanced sports cars I've ever driven.

• 1:10:57Doug DeMuro?

  Our FD is too. FD.

• 1:10:59Speaker 05

  I've never driven an FD, but it's one of the most beautiful.

• 1:11:01Doug DeMuro?

  FD is not only beautiful, designed here in California, not only beautiful, but smooth, perfect handling.

• 1:11:09Speaker 05

  Yep, I've never driven a rotary.

• 1:11:10Doug DeMuro?

  Imagine a better Miata, which is hard to do because the Miata in this era was a great car.

• 1:11:13Speaker 05

  Pretty damn good, yeah.

• 1:11:14Doug DeMuro?

  It's like a more powerful and yet, and bigger, but doesn't lose any of the littleness, because the RX7 was still a little car.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  Does the rotary help or hurt?

• 1:11:21Doug DeMuro?

  It helps because it's one of the smoothest engines.

• 1:11:23Speaker 05

  We don't have to own it. We don't have to own it.

• 1:11:25Doug DeMuro?

  We're not talking about reliable.

• 1:11:26Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 1:11:27Doug DeMuro?

  We're not talking about 13B R E W.

• 1:11:29Speaker 04

  Regardless.

• 1:11:31Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 1:11:31Speaker 05

  I agree with Felipe, I put the NSX at number one.

• 1:11:33Doug DeMuro?

  And the FD at number two?

• 1:11:35Speaker 04

  I put the Supra at number two.

• 1:11:37Doug DeMuro?

  The Supra community hates me, and I want to be one of you, I want to be part of the Supra community.

• 1:11:41Speaker 05

  But the GT-R, I.

• 1:11:43Speaker 04

  You're putting the FD above the Supra?

• 1:11:45Doug DeMuro?

  It's so good.

• 1:11:47Speaker 05

  You put the FD above, you put, you said the GT, you just don't like the GT-R then?

• 1:11:52Doug DeMuro?

  I love, dude, what am I supposed to do? What, you rank them?

• 1:11:56Speaker 04

  All right, Kenan, NSX and then what?

• 1:11:58Speaker 05

  NSX?

• 1:11:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:12:00Speaker 05

  I'd say then, are we serious? So it's R34 and R33?

• 1:12:04Doug DeMuro?

  I think it's just Skyline GT-R in general.

• 1:12:06Speaker 04

  Realistically, it's gonna be the R33 for the predominant.

• 1:12:10Doug DeMuro?

  The 34 was made for the dominant.

• 1:12:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, but the 34 wasn't, was made in the?

• 1:12:14Doug DeMuro?

  But the predominant. I don't even think the 34 went into the 2000s. I think it was purely in the 90s. What is he saying? What was the R32 then? That came out like in November of 89.

• 1:12:23Speaker 04

  Just for the record, the 34 did go into 2000s.

• 1:12:26Doug DeMuro?

  Did it? Okay.

• 1:12:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, early 2000s.

• 1:12:29Doug DeMuro?

  You rank them, rank them.

• 1:12:30Speaker 05

  I would put, so NSX, I think I would put, then I put the Supra.

• 1:12:36Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, see, it came out in January 99, so maybe I'm a little wrong, but it was the 90s car.

• 1:12:39Speaker 05

  Then I would put the GT-R, R3, I honestly, I love the R34.

• 1:12:44Doug DeMuro?

  You put the FD, if you drove an FD, you'd put it first.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  Midway through this, I had the, almost at the same order as Kenan, but I flipped the GT-R FD to the third.

• 1:12:53Speaker 05

  I've never driven one. I'd love to. I think they're wonderful cars.

• 1:12:56Doug DeMuro?

  You know what?

• 1:12:57Speaker 05

  But don't forget, it also was available with an automatic, so.

• 1:12:59Speaker 04

  So was the Supra.

• 1:13:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's true too.

• 1:13:01Doug DeMuro?

  So was the NSX.

• 1:13:03Speaker 05

  Actually, so, yeah, all three of them.

• 1:13:04Doug DeMuro?

  I don't think the Skyline was.

• 1:13:05Speaker 05

  No, I don't.

• 1:13:06Doug DeMuro?

  Not the GT-R.

• 1:13:06Speaker 05

  Maybe that should be number one.

• 1:13:07Doug DeMuro?

  It should be number one.

• 1:13:08Speaker 04

  So, so we all agree.

• 1:13:09Doug DeMuro?

  You're shifting with your left hand always. Keep that in mind.

• 1:13:11Speaker 05

  I prefer it.

• 1:13:12Speaker 04

  We all agree.

• 1:13:13Speaker 05

  I like driving right-hand drive cars.

• 1:13:14Doug DeMuro?

  That's a Sean take.

• 1:13:16Speaker 05

  For whatever reason, when I was in Africa, it just like, it feels more, I just, it's more comfortable to command the car, I'm right-handed, to command the car with my right hand, like steering.

• 1:13:24Doug DeMuro?

  I command the engine with my right hand.

• 1:13:27Speaker 05

  I don't know, I just, it felt more natural. I think it's because I play the cello and I'm used to like that. I don't know.

• 1:13:31Doug DeMuro?

  He's dropping Africa, he's dropping the cello, he's dropping his experience with right-hand drive.

• 1:13:35Speaker 05

  I'm a well-cultured person.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  NSX first, SVX last.

• 1:13:39Doug DeMuro?

  We also, we also pretty much agree that 300ZX and 3000GT should be last at some level, although I strongly believe the 3000GT should be worse. The 300, the Z32, 300ZX is a seriously good car.

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  Oh, agreed.

• 1:13:50Speaker 05

  Never driven it, but.

• 1:13:51Speaker 04

  The 3000GT just feels a little bit, maybe because it's a little bit rarer, less community around it, feels more special.

• 1:13:56Speaker 05

  Especially the VR4 Spider, you know?

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  We gotta get that.

• 1:13:58Doug DeMuro?

  The VR4 Spider is not a beautiful car.

• 1:14:00Speaker 04

  I disagree. The VR4 Spider?

• 1:14:02Doug DeMuro?

  Top-down, that is one of, that is the most beautiful, except for the RFD, which is the most beautiful car ever made.

• 1:14:07Doug DeMuro?

  Wow. Top down 3000 GT Spider is not just VR4, by the way, they did a regular. Have you ever seen it with the top up? Yeah, I think it looks pretty good. I don't think the coupe looked that good, to be honest. Um, okay, the point is, the point is, I want to switch my order around completely. After NSX, I do want to put Mark IV, then GT-R, then FD. No way. That's Mark IV, then FD, then GT-R. No way. GT-R, then. You know what? I can't decide. FD second. You committed supra. Somewhere in the middle. You know what? I'm okay with that. That's my list is a purist's list. The, a list that comes out of this with NSX first and FD second is a purist's list. And by the way, I want the Skyline ahead of the supra. I have to convince you that NSX was a good car.

• 1:14:51Doug DeMuro?

  One of the reasons I want the supra is irony. I don't think the supra is, is better driving than any of my top three. So NSX, FD, Skyline GT-R, supra, 300ZX, 3000 GT, SVX. That is the correct order. I finally got one of these. My order is better. Thank you.

• 1:15:07Speaker 00

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• 1:15:49Speaker 05

  It's a little more long than I would have thought.

• 1:15:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, same. Surprise, though. And I've spent a lot of time in all of these cars. I've driven many of all of these, except Mark IV. I've only ever driven one Mark IV. Is that it? I rely primarily on the internet to educate me about that car.

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  And Stradman.

• 1:16:02Doug DeMuro?

  Stradman.

• 1:16:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, Strad.

• 1:16:03Doug DeMuro?

  To be clear, I rely on Stradman to educate me about all cars.

• 1:16:06Speaker 04

  And, of course, about how to best furnish a large house.

• 1:16:11Speaker 05

  And deal with your landscaping.

• 1:16:13Doug DeMuro?

  And the gate.

• 1:16:14Speaker 04

  And the gate.

• 1:16:14Doug DeMuro?

  And the IRS.

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  We love you, Stradman.

• 1:16:16Doug DeMuro?

  Final car, final question, final question, final question, final question. And by that, I mean there will be two final questions. Number one, from Speed and Power 15, what do you think of the Ford GTX 1? Would you ever buy one? And if so, what does it worth to you? For those who don't know, the Ford GT, which I have, they made a convert, they briefly, they were going to make a convertible. version Ford had a lot of different partners to create the Ford GT they didn't all build the whole thing in-house there were a lot of people who participated and they were gonna make a convertible with one of the partners and they're just either it was too expensive to do or they just didn't have the interest because the car wasn't selling well enough as a coupe they didn't do it one of the things you'll notice is that a lot of the a lot of the really special cars that were only made as coupes one of the reasons for that is that there wasn't enough interest in

• 1:17:00Doug DeMuro?

  the coupe to justify a convertible a good example of that is actually the new NSX where there was absolutely gonna be a convertible and then it just didn't happen so this car is this car is is one of those there was a company in Wisconsin that worked with Ford that ended up making I don't know how many they were gonna make 200 or 500 I think maybe they got 50 out the door maybe 30 to 50 something like that and they called it the GTX one and it's an open car for GT I would I love it I think it's the coolest thing in the world and I really want one and they come up for sale occasionally but very very very uncommonly

• 1:17:32Speaker 04

  oh this is the one I think of

• 1:17:33Doug DeMuro?

  unfortunately a decent chunk of them have these wheels which are not attracted but

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  this is a yellow car with hideously yellow wheels

• 1:17:42Doug DeMuro?

  the car was actually engineered much different than you would expect the rear is completely different from a Ford GT a lot of people think they just cut off the roof that is not what happened the rear haunt like the entire rear in fact the clam opens up the entire rear is different so you can see here in this picture my car does not have that double bubble looking thing instead it has the glass coming down the everything in the back is different also the the roof panels actually clamp into place with a gasket around them to keep rain out like it is a well engineered car because it was done with Ford anyway the point is have I ever considered one off and on and like recently I've kind of been really on it however the Ford GT is on a big upswing right now and I just think this car has probably gotten out of reach for

• 1:18:25Doug DeMuro?

  me to be able to want to afford I think that I would probably pay another 200 grand on top of my car so probably mid fives for one I think that's not that's not available anymore I think that most of these cars were driven basically zero so they're all no mile cars and they're a rare GTX one I think they're probably more expensive than that now

• 1:18:47Speaker 05

  You're doing alright.

• 1:18:48Doug DeMuro?

  I am. It would be cool to have this car with an open roof.

• 1:18:50Speaker 05

  It would be.

• 1:18:51Doug DeMuro?

  The only regret I have, I've owned this car for seven years, the only regret I have really is that here in Southern California, I don't have the ability to have an open roof in it. And I think initially I couldn't afford one and over the years I've come to the conclusion like, maybe I should have stretched and done it when I could have.

• 1:19:04Speaker 05

  Turns out you couldn't afford it not to.

• 1:19:06Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, probably. What a great final question for today. No, there was one more. Which is for us. And by us, I mean us. From Porsche 997 Turbo, Doug in Cannon, maybe Filippo. The Ferrari SF90 is incredibly fast supercar with 1,000 horsepower from the factory. It seems to be the perfect Ferrari supercar on paper. Scorching performance, textbook design, feels like a driver's car. However, the used market doesn't like the car. With the SF90 being the seemingly perfect supercar, why does it do so badly in new and used sales?

• 1:19:33Speaker 05

  Well, for one, it was incredibly expensive and it looks very much like a normal Ferrari. It looks like an F8. There really wasn't that much to distinguish them visually. And so people are like, why am I going to spend more than double the cost, once you optioned it, for this car? And so I think that really hit it. The other thing is there are a lot of questions around Ferrari's hybrid technology, about how they're going to support it, its reliability. Every time we go into the Ferrari dealer, there's at least one LaFerrari and they're getting a battery and they're $300,000 for a battery and Ferrari doesn't supply them anymore. So, you know, there's that. And also, it's just like, I think those are the main reasons.

• 1:20:07Doug DeMuro?

  And production numbers.

• 1:20:08Speaker 05

  And production numbers, yeah. It's not a limited production car. They just are making them and like, they're around. And so I think for those reasons, I don't even think on paper I would consider it a perfect Ferrari. It's a great modern Ferrari, but it's not at the number people want it. And the number they're transacting for now, the market agrees with that. And at that number, it feels much more appropriate, like in the high 300 range.

• 1:20:29Doug DeMuro?

  The other thing that I think is a sophisticated point, but important to mention, is that in addition to the fact that it looked just like the 296 or an F8, it didn't perform much better.

• 1:20:39Speaker 05

  That is also true.

• 1:20:40Doug DeMuro?

  And so like you were not only asking people to pay double the cost for an unlimited production car that could have been made a zillion of, but you were asking them to make this massive financial commitment and not really get that much of an additional benefit.

• 1:20:53Speaker 04

  Incredibly perform and also hybrid if you wanted that.

• 1:20:55Doug DeMuro?

  296 is so good and then not only are you paying that, you're getting that hybrid system, which you're like, people at that level aren't really even sure they want.

• 1:21:02Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:21:03Doug DeMuro?

  That's a tough thing.

• 1:21:04Speaker 04

  And it was a transition for Ferrari to hybrid, but also like a lot of screens and a lot of other interior changes.

• 1:21:09Doug DeMuro?

  I agree that on paper, it's a pretty desirable car, but when you think about these things, the 296 is so much more desirable in my mind. One of the most desirable sports cars on the market today.

• 1:21:19Speaker 05

  Definitely. And to be clear, you know, Ferrari's hybrid technology is seems to be more reliable, but like it was a concern for people. But I agree, like for a whole lot less, the 296 kind of gets you there. So.

• 1:21:32Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. I will say also Ferrari FF front transmissions being $70,000. Ferrari still has this rep that like the cars are difficult to own and I would be concerned about that with an SF90 with the hybrid thing. I would rather limit my exposure to any potentially experimental.

• 1:21:52Speaker 05

  And like Ferrari's are cars that people own for a pretty long period of time. Generally, people like to have them, collect them, take care of them. I remember when our co-founder Blake had his F430, it had F1 transmission problems. He took it to Ferrari to diagnose. They contacted the factory and they said the people who worked on this system are no longer here. We can't help you. You're on your own. That they made a gazillion of those not that long ago. If they're willing to do it with a transmission, there's no way they're going to continue to support them.

• 1:22:17Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. And that affects your resale value also.

• 1:22:19Speaker 05

  And that deeply affects.

• 1:22:20Doug DeMuro?

  Because that has radically affected FF resale values, the fact that that's that that front transmission.

• 1:22:24Speaker 05

  During COVID, they're in the high 80s.

• 1:22:26Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Speaker 05

  Like, I mean, yeah, and it will fail. It's like a question if, question when. So yeah, I think those, those are the reasons. And for that reason, give me a, give me an old Ferrari.

• 1:22:34Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Okay. That's our pod. It's, I just want to make clear to everybody again, NSX, FD, Skyline GTR, Mark IV, 300ZX, 3000 GT and SVX.

• 1:22:46Speaker 05

  And cars and bids merch. Done.

• 1:22:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah. Buy some of the shirts. Anyway.

• 1:22:50Speaker 04

  You've done it all.

• 1:22:51Doug DeMuro?

  Finest podcast we've ever done. Filippo, any final words?

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  Finest podcast we've ever done.

• 1:22:55Speaker 05

  Boom!

• 1:22:56Speaker 04

  Carsonbits.com.

• 1:22:58Speaker 05

  Goodbye.

• 1:22:59Speaker 04

  Goodbye.

• 1:23:19Speaker 00

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