Why Relationships Change in Midlife: Menopause, Awakening & the Marriage Reset with Jillian Turecki

Join Dr. Mindy for an eye-opening conversation with relationship expert Jillian Turecki on what really happens to long-term relationships during women's midlife and menopausal transition. They unpack why so many women experience an awakening between ages 40–60, why their needs change, and why this shift often collides with what their long-term partner expects. If you've ever wondered why your relationship feels different in midlife, this episode will give you clarity, language, and powerful tools to support your next chapter. To view full show notes, resources mentioned, discount codes, transcripts, and more, visit https://drmindypelz.com/ep316/ Check out our community membership at https://resetacademy.drmindypelz.com Please note our medical disclaimer.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mindy Pelz?

  Let's talk about cod liver oil for a second. And I know what you're thinking, cod liver oil? Really? Dr. Mindy, that sounds like something my grandmother took. But hang with me here for a moment, because this is one of those old school remedies that modern science keeps proving right. Cod liver oil is one of nature's most concentrated sources of omega-3 fatty acids. Also, it's high in vitamin A and vitamin D, all in a form your body can actually recognize and use. This is such a powerful combination that is profoundly anti-inflammatory. It's protective to your brain, it supports your hormones, and it does something I care

• 0:45Mindy Pelz?

  really deeply about, which is it starts to repair and nourish your gut lining at a deep cellular level. This is something I personally take every single day, and one of the things that I have noticed the most is what it's done for my skin. I recommend it to women who are navigating hormonal shifts, dealing with chronic inflammation, or simply trusting to protect their long-term health. So Standard Process is the company I deeply align with and trust. It's a whole-food-based, clean company, and it has held the standard of quality for decades, and I expect only the best from Standard Process.

• 1:29Mindy Pelz?

  They are definitely one of the top supplement companies in the world. So if you want to try it, check it out. You can learn more and get some for yourself at drmindypels.standarprocess.com. That's drmindypels.standarprocess.com. Enjoy.

• 1:55Mindy Pelz?

  Okay, Jillian Turecki, I feel like I have been talking to you on Instagram for years now. You just don't know it because I'm speaking it out loud every time I see a reel of yours. I'm like, yes, that's it. So it's really a joy for me to have you here. So, welcome to my podcast.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor. I have Fast Like a Girl. I'm still trying to hear it. I'm trying to figure it out.

• 2:24Mindy Pelz?

  Okay, if you ever need help, you know where to find me.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  I know where to find you, yeah.

• 2:27Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, so you have an express pass to my brain if you would like it.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so sweet. Likewise.

• 2:33Mindy Pelz?

  So, let me tell you why I called you here, and I really want my audience to know this too, is that one of the things I love about your style is, I would call it very no-nonsense. You say it like it is, and I think in relationships, we often lie to ourselves, especially as women. And whenever I see your reels, I'm like, oh, man, isn't that true? And what I see with my audience, and what I really want to have a deep conversation about, is that you have women who are going through this massive life change, where their hormones are changing, their behaviors, maybe they gave their whole life over to their family, and now their kids are grown, and they're coming in, I really think a woman

• 3:18Mindy Pelz?

  really deeply steps into her power as she moves through menopause. And that power, that place of awakening, actually, I feel is contributing to the divorce rate and these new trends that we're hearing, like the gray divorce. And I don't think it's a marital problem. I think there's something going on in the relationship when a woman finally stands up for herself. And I may be wrong. So, that's why I got you here, is help us understand what a healthy 25, 30-year relationship looks like, and how do we get women to really stand in their power and be their authentic selves without destroying the whole relationship?

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Okay, so this is a big topic. So...

• 4:07Speaker 01

  When you think about the woman who's like, you know, forty-five to sixty-five years old, let's just say that sort of um perimenopausal, menopausal, post-menopausal stage of life. And she's been in a relationship or married for a long, you know, over ten years, let's say.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Or more and and and many of these women have children. So much of what women are, what we're conditioned to do in a relationship. And and and part of this is biological, that we are just nurtures more by nature. Is women tends to put ev- we tend to put everyone's needs before our own.

• 4:49Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  And there's a really interesting um research that um Alison Armstrong has talked about, which is that women, as opposed to men, have something called diffuse awareness. And diffuse awareness is we are taking in our environment in a way that men are not. So like, we'll be in a room filled with people and we will like notice what like the person crying in the corner, what someone's feeling over there, what's, you know, and obviously there's different levels of this. But our capacity for just like taking things in in our environment and part of, part of that, the research suggests is the role of estrogen in the body.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  But there's also research to suggest that it's also because, you know, it's like, where do we draw the line between conditioning and biology, basically? But there's also just that women, we have, we are aware of our safety or a lack thereof in a way that men are not. And so because we are always taking everything in, and compounded to that is that on on top of that is we feel, we then feel responsible for others. A habit that women have is putting themselves last.

• 6:09Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  And so when you have a woman who's been ma- uh someone's wife for many, many years and someone's mother for many, many years. When she reaches the stage of life, it's sort of like, you know, the why, the wisdom stage of life. Uh this next chapter where she's not old, she's not elderly, but she's older, right? And it's like, so what is the stage of life? She often has a reckoning where uh it's, it's not a midlife crisis. But it is a sort of mid to, you know, a little bit past midlife reckoning of where am I in all this? And what do I actually want?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  What are, what are the needs that have been unfulfilled in my life?

• 7:00Mindy Pelz?

  Bingo.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  And often what happens is then she thinks, you know, well, my, my spouse can no longer meet my needs.

• 7:09Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And, and also she's learning how to become an advocate for her needs. Because, because she doesn't want to just be mommy and wife. She wants to find herself. I put that in big quotation marks.

• 7:26Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  So it's really about helping her understand that, that, that probably what she's needing at this stage of life is more significance because she's made everyone else more significant than herself.

• 7:40Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  She's needing more significance. She's needing more just an understanding of who she is. And oftentimes women then get into this, you know, there's this funny trend on, on social media right now. The I, the I don't, I don't care club, that I do not care.

• 7:58Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, that we do not care club, yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's gone very viral. So there's very much like, well, I just don't care. Like I'm, I'm exhausted. Now it's about me, which is incredibly empowering. Um but can also be incredibly destructive in her relationship. So it's about teaching her or helping her understand how to honor that. How to be like, this is what I need and not to, to shy away from that. But also, learning how to give yourself that. So what does that mean? That might mean, okay, I actually need more alone time.

• 8:37Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And I didn't need that much alone time before, or I suppressed that need, but I do need more alone time. It could mean, I want to, um, I wanna learn how to write. I wanna learn how to paint. You know, there's o- other, um, parts of her that need to be expressed. How that become, that how that can potentially become complicated in a marriage is.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  She's needing, she's needing to, um, connect to these parts of herself that have been long lost. Or long suppressed. And she's needing to meet her needs for greater significance, like who am I? You know, I wanna feel significant now in my own life and to others. And then you might actually have, what's interesting is that. As a man, let's say she's in a relationship with a man. As he gets older, he's probably more established in his purpose and his career. So he's looking more to connect.

• 9:43Mindy Pelz?

  Interesting.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  And she's looking more to individuate.

• 9:48Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, that, that, that. Yeah, it totally resonates with what I've felt and with what my friends and our audience is that. It's almost like the woman is moving away and the man wants to move in to connection more. And the woman wants to move out of connection more. And it's interesting because, uh, so my new book, Age Like a Girl, I've actually spent over a decade researching this book. And I think that the neurochemical shifts that happen to women as they go through menopause. Starts to take us out of what I would call, or what Lisa Moscone, who is the top female brain researcher.

• 10:28Mindy Pelz?

  Calls it a relational brain, where a woman brings her right hemisphere and her left hemisphere to every single decision. So she's always thinking about the relationship. And the connection between two of hemispheres is the corpus callosum, which gets ignited by estrogen. So when estrogen comes in during puberty, a female's brain goes into this relational place where she's always thinking through the lens of how do I take care of everybody, just like you said.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  How do I get loved? How do I get chosen? All of it.

• 11:03Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, all of it. Like, oh, you want me to look this way? Oh, you want me to behave this way?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  The relationship is the highest value.

• 11:10Mindy Pelz?

  That's right. But when estrogen goes away, what happens is the brain rewires itself. And it rewires itself for more independence. Exactly what you just said. And combine that. I love what you just said. I am literally convinced that women become more intuitive, more psychic, more sensitive as we move into our aging years. So when we, I love what you said. When we walk into a room and we sense something's off, it can send our whole nervous system into a sympathetic reaction. And now cortisol is high. And maybe it's your husband sitting on the couch. And he's not doing, he's not doing what you want to do.

• 11:55Mindy Pelz?

  But all of a sudden, you walked into that room. He didn't even say anything. And your whole nervous system is flared up.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:03Mindy Pelz?

  And

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Or you sense your kid, your teenager or your young doll kid is depressed or anxious.

• 12:10Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. Yeah. And you can't, so now you can't sleep. And so you're like fixing your kid's problem at two in the morning. So I love what you, how you just described that. And what I've heard, and this is really an important part that I love to bring forward. What I've heard from my friends who have gone through divorces is, to men, is they say, I tried, I tried to get him to understand, and he won't. So I love you do this with all your relationship work where you're like turn on yourself and look at what you can do. But I'm just gonna be as bold as to say, I think the men need to step up. I think the men need to to see this phase a little differently.

• 12:54Mindy Pelz?

  We need to figure out how to help the men. Because we're changing and it's like they're doubling down on something that's not working for us.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yes, so a couple of things I'll say to that. One is, I think that any man who dates a woman, regardless if he's twenty years old or seventy years old. Um, men need to be aware of a woman's cycle.

• 13:18Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  And lack of.

• 13:20Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, bingo.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  So he needs to be in, he needs to know exactly when she's about to get her period. What's going on for her then? Um, understand that, you know, usually there's a certain stage in a woman's cycle where she's gonna want more sex. And that's the time to like really initiate the sex. And there's gonna be times where she's not gonna want that. And so I think all men who who are even in any relationship with women, even if it's if it's not sexual should be aware. They're close enough with this woman should be aware of the cycle. The same thing goes for menopause. Men need to be educated on this. But I wanna go so far as to say is that, you know, women also have to do their part.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  You know, men, men um are also vastly misunderstood in relationships.

• 14:10Mindy Pelz?

  Agreed.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  And it's, you know, it's not just about you, honey. You know, like you actually have to um. You can't just take the position of I'm a victim in my relationship and my husband just doesn't understand. That's never ever going to work. And if you really feel that, then you shouldn't be with him.

• 14:31Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, yeah, I think I and and so, you know, again, when you look at the divorce rates. You know, when I'm looking that through, I'm like, okay, I think what happens to a woman is exactly she wakes up. She wants to individuate and a man is like, what is going on? This marriage has been working for me and I don't and you seem you seem happy in it. And then all of a sudden, like. You know, she's doing things that seem really unusual for him. And I think that it's not about always exiting. And I will tell you that as, as a woman who's been in a thirty year marriage,

• 15:13Mindy Pelz?

  I've learned more about myself in a marriage than I've learned in any other place in my life.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  I'm sure. So how did you communicate it with your husband?

• 15:22Mindy Pelz?

  Well, so one of the things that we did that has been really helpful is talk about our marriage in segments. And I, we call the marriage before kids, marriage one point O. Um, we call the marriage we had when kids were in the house, marriage two point O. And then the marriage we're creating right now is marriage three point O.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Oh, amazing.

• 15:44Mindy Pelz?

  So, so the way we're talking, two things that have helped is I will say, in marriage three point O, I don't want to spend every moment with you. I, I need my alone time. So actually, we moved to a, a house where I, it has like a back house so that I could go and spend more time by myself.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 16:04Mindy Pelz?

  We, so it's, and we talked a lot about, um, in my book, I, and it, it's easy because this is my business, right? But in my book, my book, I have a concept called butterfly in yourself. Where, um, where you, you sort of crawl, menopause causes you to crawl into the chrysalis and dissolve parts of you that you don't love, and then you come out a butterfly. So the other day I found a little baseball cap with a butterfly on it. And I told him, hey, when I wear, when I wear this, remember what version you're talking to. You're talking to a different version of me.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 16:38Mindy Pelz?

  So it's been the language. We've had to change the language. We've had to change the rhythm. Um, and, and it's, it's helping and it's like recreating something that we needed to recreate.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I love that. It reminds me of a strategy that I used to use with couples, which is that it's helpful to have different nicknames, like a few different nicknames for your partner that represents the archetype or the energy that they're in. So like sometimes like, and, and I would say, you know, let's say I was talking to the woman.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  You know, when you come home or when you're home, just say like, ah, you know, I'm, I'm this today. You know, I'm Jilly today, I'm or I'm Julian today. And then your partner immediately knows, okay, I'm with playful. Or I'm with serious, or I'm with, you know, the one who's feisty and wants to have like a sexual adventure or just an adventure. The three point O and menopause stage, it could be butterfly, it could be whatever your nickname is.

• 17:38Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  It could be sage, like, cause there's, you're more like wisdom, but, but I, but I also think that, um. I, I, I, I would love to hear your take on this. Isn't it also important? Don't you think it would help us women to also remember that like? We are still alive and playful and sexual and feminine.

• 18:04Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, thank you.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  And that you don't actually have to just be like. You know. In wisdom archetype because you went through menopause. Like you have to actually still connect to the feminine side of you. And that's very, very important for women. Over forty-five who are dating to be able to connect to that part of themselves as well.

• 18:30Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. So in my research for Age Like a Girl, I found the work of Carol Gilligan. Are you familiar with her?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  I'm not, but I will be.

• 18:39Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. So you, this will be interesting for you. Uh, she was a feminist psychologist who studied girls in the nineteen eighties. And it's especially relevant to me because I was a teen, I was, I was the age she studied in the eighties. And what she did is she looked at how girls respond to questions of desire. So if you ask a boy and a girl at the age nine, what they want to eat, they'll both tell you, the boy will tell you, the girl will tell you. But if you ask that same question at eleven, the boy will still tell you what he wants, but the girl might waver a little bit. By the time she gets to thirteen, when her hormones kick in, or as a friend of mine likes to say, once she got drugged on estrogen.

• 19:23Mindy Pelz?

  And you ask the boy what he wants, he still tells you and the girl says, I don't know, what do you want to, what are you gonna eat? And so the, her idea was that when girls come into these teenage years.

• 19:38Mindy Pelz?

  That she didn't say it through the lens of estrogen, I'm adding the lens of estrogen. But that society has taught girls that you are worthy if you are selfless. And so, everything comes from that over and over and over again for a woman as she goes into her twenties, thirties and forties. And you said it earlier, like if I'm, if I look pretty and you come in and you tell me I'm beautiful, then all of a sudden I know I'm worthy. Or if you know.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Or safe. If we were to go back even further in time.

• 20:12Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  To a different century, then it's safe.

• 20:16Mindy Pelz?

  Ooh, yes. Okay, safety is interesting because, and I'm super happy you're bringing this up. Because I have a theory that the rage that it comes out of women during menopause is because they have, we all have been feeling safe. Unsafe for a very long time, living in a patriarchal society.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well then that's.

• 20:39Mindy Pelz?

  So, safety, safety comes in, so talk a little more about safety because there are a lot of good men that will say, oh, I, I would never hurt my wife. I'd never do, you know, anything, but I also have a friend whose husband never cheated on her. But he would make, by a thousand cuts, he would talk about her weight. And over and over and over again till she wasn't safe in the relationship. So, safety is. Safety doesn't just mean I'm beating you up or I'm cheating on you.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not. I think it's understanding that for centuries, so women have had, have had to figure out how to be safe in the world. Because we are the physically weaker gender.

• 21:21Mindy Pelz?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  We just are.

• 21:22Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Um, of course, there's some women who are really strong, but in general, men are physically stronger than women.

• 21:28Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, it's well said, yeah.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  So, we have had to figure out how to stay safe. And so, and, and I think that that's probably one of the most important things that men can under, learn about women is that we're constantly thinking about our physical safety. And so, that also translates into emotional safety, like how, like a woman goes into a room or she goes, she walks down the.

• 21:52Mindy Pelz?

  Okay, let me ask you a personal question. And this one is a really important one, which is, when was the last time you had your vitamin D checked? And I'm saying this because in all my years of working with women, low vitamin D is one of the most consistent findings I see, and one of the most consistently missed. And vitamin D matters for so many aspects of your health. We're talking about a deficiency that can show up as hormonal imbalance, mood struggles, poor sleep, immune issues, even stubborn weight that won't budge no matter what you do. But here's the part that most people don't know.

• 22:34Mindy Pelz?

  Taking an isolated D3 supplement isn't enough. This isn't like just running down to the local store and grabbing some D3. Your body actually needs D3 to be combined with very specific cofactors to actually absorb and utilize vitamin D the way nature intended it. And most supplements on the market don't include these cofactors. That's why I personally love Cataplex D from Standard Process. It's a whole food supplement. It's vitamin D complex, not just an isolated nutrient. There's an incredible difference between checking a box and actually moving the needle on your health, and this one really moves the needle.

• 23:18Mindy Pelz?

  In fact, in my clinic, we used to test vitamin D, and we could see with a product like Cataplex D, we could see on lab work, the vitamin D levels in people go up. So you can learn more, and you can get yourself some vitamin D. You can test out Cataplex D at drmindypels.standardsprocess.com. Enjoy.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Street, she's constantly, even if it's unconscious.

• 23:49Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Scanning for threat.

• 23:52Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  And that is exhausting.

• 23:55Mindy Pelz?

  Uh, thank you. Okay. So let's, I want to stay on this because do you know, one day I was trying to explain to my husband, who is a, is amazing man, I was trying to explain to him how I felt unsafe in the world. And one of the descriptions I, questions I asked him is if you walk into a parking lot and your car, and it's dark, there's not well lit, and your car is parked next to a van, what do you do? And he's like.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  He's like, I just go to the car.

• 24:21Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. I'm like, I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me. And I literally crawl in the passenger side to the dri- if it's parked next to the driver's side.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And he, and he wouldn't even think of that.

• 24:34Mindy Pelz?

  No, he wouldn't even think of that. So I do think safety is a big one. And, and I think a lot of women are feeling unsafe in their, in their relationships. And, and the spouse might not even know it. How would you, as a, what, what would be a sign of safety is not present in your relationship?

• 24:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer that question. What I want to just say first, if I may, is this is why communication is so important. Like if you're going through something as a woman and you're needing more alone time, or you're feeling like you need to give to yourself more, you don't just do it. If you're in a marriage or a relationship, you need to talk to your partner about that and reassure them and have conversations about it. You don't just say, this is, you know, I am woman, hear me roar and go fuck yourself to, you know, like you have to actually talk about it. How do you know you feel emotionally unsafe in a relationship? You're gonna have a whole bunch of physical symptoms. You're gonna have a lot of anxiety.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  You're gonna, you're going to have, you're gonna be obsessing and ruminating. You're gonna feel incredibly insecure. Um, and you're gonna feel like you need a lot of reassurance and, um, you're gonna be stressed out. And basically you're just feeling, you know, certainty.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Is so important in a relationship. You need to really feel like you can be yourself, that you can express yourself. Obviously, if you're doing, you know, you have to be able to do this with respect. But if you feel like you need to censor yourself, or you can't really say the truth, or you can't actually have a conversation with your partner and you have to like, watch your words so much so that you don't, you know, hurt a fragile, agitate them, or you're, you know, walking on eggshells. Walking on eggshells is one of the most under, under acknowledged forms of emotional abuse.

• 26:34Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, that's really true. Okay, so in that situation, if you're scared to tell your spouse that you're walking on eggshells.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:44Mindy Pelz?

  Like, is that the time you go to therapy? Is that time you get a third party involved? Or how would a woman approach that conversation?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  First, I have to say, if you're afraid that there's going to be any physical violence, you leave. You never ever stay in any scenario where there's physical violence in any way. You never give them a second chance. You don't wait for them to go to therapy. You don't go to therapy together. You do what you can and gather whatever resources you can. And I know that it's, it's not exactly easy for some people, but you figure out a way to leave. Um, but if it's just like, you're not feeling like emotionally safe, um, you have a conversation with your, that's when you have to be really brave.

• 27:28Mindy Pelz?

  Mm hmm.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  And say, I'm not feeling good. Like, this isn't feeling right. I don't feel safe. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. And this is, what I'm about to say is easier said than done, but it's absolutely crucial. Let them have their reaction. Not to, I don't mean to sound like let them right now, but like, you really just have to allow them.

• 27:51Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  In other words, they are going anticipate that they may have a reaction to that of defensiveness. And your job is to stay very centered and calm.

• 28:03Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And it's not like you're trying to put salt in a wound, but you just have to say, this is how I'm feeling. And if they cannot handle that react, if they can't handle you saying that. Then you have, then you have some big choices to make. Say, we either need to speak to a third party. Or um, you know, let me know when you can have this conversation in a calm way, but this is how I'm feeling. But like, you can't, you have to be able to say that to your partner without them raging. And if they are raging or getting incredibly defensive, that's a time to really rethink your relationship with them. But there's always context and nuance and all of that. And you don't want to be constantly going to your partner about. A, a, a bad habit that women have in relationships is.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Because they are always scanning for threat and because they are always looking for safety. Women have an unconscious habit in a relationship to always point out. It to themselves and to their partner when their partner is doing something wrong. And they forget to appreciate.

• 29:13Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. Yeah, it's like kids. Like we, I remember my husband and I, we would, when we were like getting our parenting style together. Uh, we had read something about five positive for one criticism, like five. You're awesome to one, hey, we need to, you need to work on this. So it's the same, same in, in relationships. Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely, because human, we're like dogs that way. We respond to positive reinforcement. And we really don't respond to punishment. And um, everyone who's it, who's in a relationship, who plans to be in a relationship, regardless of who you are. You have to be very honest with yourself about the ways in which you punish your partners.

• 29:59Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  And to stop because no one is motivated to change with punishment. People are motivated to change when we see the goodness in them.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  And we point out the positive and you can do this with a student, anyone you're mentoring. No one is gonna be positive to rise to their potential. If you are constantly pointing out the ways in which they're failing. But if you can constantly appreciate how amazing they are and say, I see the amazingness in you. Then people are more inspired to change.

• 30:35Mindy Pelz?

  Oh, yeah, and where I see this with a lot of my girlfriends is the constant nagging. So I'm Yeah, and we do that as women, we need to call ourselves out on that because. You know, that is where we're like, you didn't do this and you didn't do that and you didn't that and then I can imagine if you turned around and said. Oh, and by the way, I'm walking on eggshells. That might be where all of a sudden, you know, the wheels come off the bus.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  The wheels, exactly, and the more that we nag, the more our partner is going to shut down and withdraw. And then the narrative becomes they're avoidant, they're not listening to me and it's never, look. It's never just one person's fault, it's, it's, it's a dynamic.

• 31:16Mindy Pelz?

  Well said.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  And it's about understanding human nature and it's about understanding if. You're in a, if you are in a relationship with women, really understanding women and if you're in a relationship with men, really understanding men, I really, really. Think that that is. A huge key to the success of a relationship is understanding the nature of the person who you're with as an individual and also. With their biology.

• 31:43Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, okay resentment, let's talk about resentment a little bit because this is another one. That festers in these long term relationships and. Um, I spent a day with Julie Gottman and one of the things she said to me that really like hit me. Was that resentment builds in women in marriages when we say yes to all the things we really want to say no to. And then I had a conversation this week with um, a sex expert who said. Resentment is the number one killer of libido.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  It is.

• 32:19Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, and so how, what, how do we acknowledge that we're feeling resentful? And how, what, what does a woman do with that emotion?

• 32:27Speaker 01

  I also want to add that um, that's why the nice guy syndrome. He's gonna be the, the, you know, the nice guy, not the kind guy, but the nice guy is gonna be the one who stabs you in the back because he's always saying yes when we leave, he wants to say no until one day he wakes up and he hates you.

• 32:46Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  It's important, it goes both ways. So i- it is always learning to like for women, it's always coming into conversation with the ways in which you people please. And, and, and, and, and you know, why you do it and learning how to be an advocate for your needs. And tha- that really is, yes, of course, there's the nice guys who have to be the advocate for their needs, but it's really a woman's task. Uh, to learn how to be an advocate for needs because more women than not just don't say what they need in a relationship.

• 33:26Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  And they try to keep the peace, or they just are so unaccustomed to saying what it is that they want and what it is that they need, so you have, so you have to practice. And you have to practice every day, not just in your relationship and you have to practice with the low hanging fruit in small ways, just saying what it is that you want or practicing saying no when you really wanna say no. And it's very important, yeah, and, and so what happens when you find that you are resentful? There's two things. Either you have to recognize that there are things that you haven't been saying that you need to say.

• 34:10Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  And then you have to say it in a way that is tactful because oftentimes with resentment, it's like a pressure cooker and then everything comes out and it's a nightmare for everyone. But the second thing is that most people don't like to hear is in what way have you been

• 34:34Speaker 01

  projecting so many of your expectations onto your partner to be someone who they're not.

• 34:42Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, wow, yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  Both require self-responsibility.

• 34:46Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  But sometimes it's also like I'm resentful of my partner because I'm expecting them to literally be someone who I know have known from day one they're not.

• 34:57Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah. Do you think we put too much pressure on our partners in general, like, you know, there's that when, yeah, when you first fall in love, you have all that projection. And then you want that to stay. So I I can totally see that. But what I think we also have this expectation that somehow this person needs to be the center of our universe. And I think that, like, I've actually really sat and thought, like, is the container of marriage set, does it set us up for failure? Because the old way that we or the way we entered into marriage, at least when I got married in nineteen ninety six,

• 35:37Mindy Pelz?

  was that this is your person, you're gonna be get, you're gonna happily have happily ever, ever for your rest of your life. Um, and this is your person now. And what I've learned in my thirty years of marriage is how deeply important having other go-to people are. Having how important my girlfriends are, how important my alone time. But that somehow that seems to be at at odds with the marriage message of this is your person forever.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Um, I think it's it's more the the romanticization of love. It's like, you know, it it America used to use, people used to rely on a village, not just on one person.

• 36:18Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  So, um,

• 36:23Speaker 01

  yeah, I think it's always about having relationships outside of the marriage. I mean, you know, obviously, uh, friendships and community relationships outside of the marriage. I think it's about, I think it's very important to have a life. Is, does marriage shut us up for failure? I think that any relationship is an opportunity for growth. But I think where we've been set up for failure is that we think that a relationship is supposed to make us happy. When really, it's our responsibility to make the relationship happy.

• 36:53Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, yeah, or make ourselves happy.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Which actually makes the relationship happier.

• 36:59Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah, right. Because if you're happy, then, then a happy person creates a happy.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, hap- two happy people tend to make a happy relationship.

• 37:09Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. How, how necessary, uh, do you think sex is in a relationship, a romantic one?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  I find it to be very necessary. I think it's very important. I think people should be, um, scheduling it if you're, if you're, even if you are,

• 37:26Speaker 01

  you know, really busy. But more than that, than like the act itself. I find that just sexual energy between two people is really important. And that

• 37:40Speaker 01

  most people don't know how to recreate that in a long-term relationship. And that it's that feeling of like, like how Esther Perel refers to it like the erotic. Which is like how, like where, like that eroticism that exists between you and your partner. And we're sold this lie that it's just supposed to be there. Because in the beginning, you know, the falling in love stage and, and the beginning of a relationship. We can be incredibly passive because hormones and novelty and newness is doing everything for us.

• 38:15Mindy Pelz?

  Right.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  But it's really about, you know, um,

• 38:21Speaker 01

  for a lot of people, foreplay begins well before touch.

• 38:24Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yes.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  It's when you feel most alive. It's when, it's noticing when you feel most attracted to your partner. It's making sure that, you know, because people are mostly drawn to those when they are witnessing their, this person in their flow state.

• 38:42Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, it's so beautiful.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that for a lot of people who are attracted to men. They are most attracted to their man when he's like in charge and powerful and like, yeah.

• 38:57Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  For for for people who attract who are attracted to women. I think that he will have or she will have a lot of respect for her when she's like in charge, but that's not usually when he's most attracted to her. He's attracted, they're attracted to her when she feels most relaxed. And happy. And free.

• 39:18Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, I can see that. And what do you think about this idea that desire is is wrapped up in in mystery? Then Esther Esther Perel has said this where it's like when when there's mystery, there's desire, which is why people go and have affairs. Because, oh, this is a new, it's novel, it's mysterious. How do you recreate that in a thirty year marriage?

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Well, um. It's exactly what we're saying. It's, you know, it's you wanting a little bit of alone time. That creates some mystery. It's it's not just, it's also being curious about another person's inner world and and and checking yourself and reminding yourself that you really don't. Know everything there is to know about your partner and they're always evolving. But more than mystery, like I said before, it's seeing them when they don't, when they're not reliant on you. So again, if you're attracted to men, you're attracted to masculine energy. Masculine energy, it feels most alive to us when it's like you are, you are in charge.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Because then we're seeing you as strong and capable.

• 40:26Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  People who are attracted to feminine energy, they don't ca- strong and capable, yeah. They might love that about you, they might respect that about you, they may be proud of you, but that's not what's gonna turn them on. It's when you feel so happy and free and you don't need them to make you happy and free.

• 40:45Mindy Pelz?

  Right, right.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  That's why, that's why when women are dancing or singing. That is v- very much an aphrodisiac for those who are attracted to them.

• 40:58Mindy Pelz?

  Fascinating.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:59Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, and you know, after studying the female body for so long, and even the menopause experience, I've wondered if what a woman's sexual energy is supposed to be like as she, as a whole reproductive system that gave her hormones, that made her feel sexy so that she would reproduce, that all goes away. And there's so many of my friends and the people who are in our following that just are like, there's nothing there. There's literally no libido there. And so you have this massive hormonal shift, and you've been in this marriage where there's no mystery, and there's no, it's just been doing its thing forever.

• 41:42Mindy Pelz?

  And so there has to be a recreation of something there.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yes, so she has to, um, look, I'm not the doctor, but from what I understand estrogen is still developed in the adrenal glands, yes?

• 41:56Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, yep.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's not like it's totally gone?

• 41:59Mindy Pelz?

  No, you still have some.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  You still have some, you're still a woman. So, figure out what makes you come alive. Is it going to a concert? Is it trying something new and slightly dangerous? And anything that gets you like excited again. Creative energy is sexual energy.

• 42:17Mindy Pelz?

  Ooh, I love that.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  It just is. And look, we all have both masculine and feminine energy. I feel as much male as I do female, right? But like when I'm like in work mode and like, you know, like making shit happen, I'm in mostly my masculine, right? But when I'm like, when I'm feeling very creative and alive and plugged in.

• 42:40Mindy Pelz?

  Okay, I have something I've got to say that I really think a lot of women need to hear. If you've ever followed a health program and it didn't work, check this out. This is not your fault. I promise you, let me explain. Most fitness programs, most fasting protocols, most dietary advice, it was researched on men. It was designed for men and then handed to women with a shrug. And here you go, I hope this works for you. But here's the thing, you operate on a 28 day hormonal cycle. The foods you eat, the length of your fast, even the intensity of your workouts,

• 43:22Mindy Pelz?

  all of it needs to be timed to where you are in that cycle to actually get a result. This is the science I teach inside my Reset Academy. This is the science that I have researched for over a decade. And inside my Academy, every month I walk you through it in a very practical and actionable and way, and it's actually built for your body, for a feminine body. So it's gonna work. I promise you, I see it over and over again. So no more guessing, no more following advice that was never designed for you. This is a moment to get back into relationship with this beautiful body

• 44:06Mindy Pelz?

  that you are so blessed to live in. So if you're ready to finally understand this incredible body of yours and work with it instead of constantly fighting against it, come find me over in the Reset Academy. It's resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. That's resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. I'll see you there.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  That is creative energy that is the same thing as sexual energy. And I will always say it's very important for both men and women to continue to move their bodies. But for women to move their bodies, like I understand the whole trend right now is build muscle and you gotta weight train. And I know that that's very, I'm a yogi for many years.

• 44:53Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, me too.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm, oh, and I don't have like that kind of body that just builds a lot of muscle. But I, and so I understand functionally why that's so important, but.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  As a woman, if you're not dancing, if you're not doing some sort of breath work or moving your body that's more fluid and isn't just about like, you know, heavy weight, you're gonna be disconnecting from that part of you that feels free and open and sexual and alive and sensual and feminine.

• 45:26Mindy Pelz?

  I, I, I love that thought because I actually am getting exhausted with the build muscle conversation. And, and, and I'll tell you why. Like, this is my big beef about menopause right now is the conversations all built around more have to's for women.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  More protein, more this, more that, yeah.

• 45:46Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, so like, now, now you're like, lost these hormones, you gotta find the right doctor with the right patch, and you gotta make sure you're eating enough protein and you're going to the gym and you're lifting weights, and, and you gotta work on your marriage. I mean, it's just after a while, women are just like, forget it.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  That's adding to their symptoms, by the way.

• 46:05Mindy Pelz?

  That's right, that's right. It was actually interesting because in Age Like a Girl, I, the section on food, I decided to take out any, any like macro counting or calorie counting. I was like, here are the foods you should eat, here are the foods you shouldn't eat, here are the fasting lengths I recommend, and try it for yourself and see what happens. Because I feel like everybody has some opinion about how women should be, and the last thing we need now that this menopause conversation is opened up, right, is more, more things that we have to be.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Actually, me and my friends, um, cause we're all like 40s and 50s, and a lot of, it's like, on the one hand, it's like, it's great that the conversation is out there, but, you know, if I'm gonna be very candid, a lot of the conversations that me and my friends are having is like, we're so over it. We're so over the conversation being stuffed in our faces, and, and, and everyone I know.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Because I know some, I have some friends who are like in the perimenopause, menopause transition.

• 47:12Mindy Pelz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  And the ones who have basically no symptoms are the ones who are just like by nature less stressed.

• 47:22Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, yes, yes. No, no, no, I, you can say it because I, I've been saying this a lot on all of these podcasts I've been doing for the book, is that I think that the person that survives this experience, the woman who survives it without all the turbulence, has two things working for her. She has her metabolic system. I, I really think like she's not sitting there eating, you know, boxes of pizza and drinking sodas all day long.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:52Mindy Pelz?

  So.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  She takes care of herself, yeah.

• 47:54Mindy Pelz?

  She takes care of herself and her nervous system is regulated, which is a very unusual thing for a woman to go into her 40s with her nervous system regulated.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  In our culture.

• 48:05Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. Right, thank you. So now we've come in with this HRT conversation that now every woman's got to put a patch on, and we totally forgot to remind her to do less and to worry less and to eat better. We're just like, put this patch on, you're gonna be okay. And, and I could.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  We're, we're, because we're, because we've worked so hard and we're doing everything.

• 48:26Mindy Pelz?

  That's right.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And we're not letting go enough.

• 48:28Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. That's right.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Sorry to interrupt.

• 48:31Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:33Mindy Pelz?

  No, no, I'm so happy you're saying this because I've, I'm really agitated with where the menopause conversation has landed, because what happens to women, and I'm curious your thought on this, is that when you tell us to do something and we can't succeed at that, we don't think you're the problem, we actually turn on ourselves and we start to shame ourselves.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, and it's, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

• 48:55Mindy Pelz?

  Yes.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  It's a self fulfilling prophecy. I think the, a balanced nervous system is everything. I mean, I just know for me, like when my nervous system, I mean, this is a whole other wormhole, but like I have a nervous system that's easily frayed. I study a lot of, um, I've studied for many, for decades, Ayurveda. So I have a certain constitution that makes it that like when my nervous system is regulated, I'm highly creative and sharp, but I can easily become ungrounded. It's just, it's, it's the way I was born.

• 49:27Mindy Pelz?

  Yep.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And I have found that when my nervous system is dysregulated, I have all the symptoms that everyone is complaining about. And when it's regulated, I'm like,

• 49:38Speaker 01

  I'm fine.

• 49:39Mindy Pelz?

  Right, right.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And that's not to blame people about nervous, because some people, again, it could be other things. I am someone who happens, I mean, I love a little sugar and I love my chocolate, but overall, like, I eat very, pretty well. And I don't drink alcohol at all, so, so I, to me, it's always been a stress thing. I do think there's a little bit of a chicken or an egg, which is, um, am I stressed because of my hormones? Or are my hormones out of whack because I'm stressed? Um, but I do, but what I have noticed is that when I take the time to really let go, check out, you know, really look at the ways in which I'm operating from an old belief system of I'm not good enough,

• 50:23Speaker 01

  which then furthers dysregulates, that like all the things that I see everyone complaining about, I'm like, oh, there's that ache. Or there's that stiffness, or there's that like lack of sleep, or there's that like I'm feeling a little warm, oh my God. And then, then like the neuro, the neurosis, like, I'm hot, am I having a hot flash? It's like, no, I actually just sometimes get really fucking hot.

• 50:45Mindy Pelz?

  Right, and that's the problem, oh my God, that's such the problem with the, with this menopausal moment is we're like, ah, it's menopause. We just blame it on all that.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Freaking out, yeah.

• 50:55Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, it's so true, it's so true. What do you think of some of the new trends that we're seeing in, um, long-term marriages, like living apart together?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  So this is interesting, my mother and my stepfather, they both have passed, but they, they started seeing each other, he lived down the, he lived down the, I grew up in New York City, in Manhattan. And we lived and they they live like two, he lived two buildings down on the same block. And so when they started seeing each other, I would say my mom was like around forty three and divorced, three kids. And he was um like, you know, forty eight or something like that. And so they for many years had a relationship where they they had their routine, like when there was the sleepovers.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  And then they finally decided to get married, but they were like, there's, I'm not living with you. Like, what's the point? We're not having kids. And so I think that's what you're asking. I'm in full support. I think it's challenging if you're younger and you want to start a family and have kids. But I think if you're at the stage of life where you've had your kids or you don't want kids. I think it's great. Some people are amazing couples, but they don't live well together.

• 52:10Mindy Pelz?

  Yes, yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  And so I actually think it's great. It's great to have a night off. Then you can watch whatever the fuck you want to watch on TV and you can sleep. I I'm in full support.

• 52:21Mindy Pelz?

  Yes. Yeah, it's a trend that started after the pandemic, I guess. A lot of couples started, you know, living separately. Because the pandemic just was too much together time. And so then it started and and there's a lot of models of how it's worked incredibly well for people. I think it would also back to what the general theme of this conversation has been, it would take a lot of communication um as well. The other the other trend that I think is really interesting is they're calling it sleep divorce. Where couples are sleeping in separate rooms. What are your thoughts on that?

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  I'm in support. I really am in support. I think that um what I, this is what I'm in support of. What I'm in support of is that what works for one couple doesn't necessarily work for another. And that you just have to figure out what works for the two of you and not conform to what anyone is telling you or what society is telling you and do what fucking works for you.

• 53:22Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because, uh, I mean, in full transparency, this is something in, in, as I've gone through menopause, I just need to sleep in my own bed. It's, it is like a non-negotiable for me now. And it has nothing to do with my husband. It, I mean, I guess it has, he makes noise at night and I wake up and I don't like that. So I guess, but he can't control that. He can't control that.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:46Mindy Pelz?

  So it's just, but it's something about being in my own energy. And like getting into bed and my, and you know, this is after years of having little kids crawl in your bed.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 53:57Mindy Pelz?

  It's like, I want, I want to take my bed back and I just want my bed. But I think it's, um, I think it's a, one of those things that is taboo, has been taboo because it's like somehow we think it's the beginning of a, of divorce.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  What we're not focusing enough on is this. Sorry to interrupt.

• 54:14Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah, no, please.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:16Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Rather than just focusing on if you're sleeping in the same bed, what is happening the other 12 hours of your day? Are you touching each other? Are you holding hands? Is there, when you speak to each other, is there eye contact? And even better, when you, when you make eye contact, do you also put your hand on their arm at the same time? So that you are appealing to all their senses. Focus that. So everyone's like, oh, you're sleeping apart. That's the problem. No. What's actually leads to divorce is a death by a thousand cuts.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  And sometimes those thousand cuts are the, are the repetitive cycles of not actually connecting to one another through touch, through tone, through eye contact throughout the day.

• 55:09Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. Oh, that's so, so beautifully said. Okay, so we, we have to definitely address this one, which is when do you know it's time? And I saw you do a, a podcast on this. How do you know it's time to leave?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  It's like the million dollar question.

• 55:24Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  And it's a very hard one to answer. I would say it's, I really think that if you've invested, you know, there's no abuse happening. And you care about this person and you've invested a lot of time. You have to, it's why I wrote my book. It begins with you. You have to really think about the ways in which you haven't been meeting needs.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  And not only think about the needs that are not being met for you. And I like to give people like a sixty day challenge, sometimes a ninety day challenge, depending on the couple. Of just showing up as your best self and really, really

• 56:14Speaker 01

  being a giver and a loving person and not just think about what you're not getting. Because then at the end of that trial period, if you've really, really done the work to not just think about yourself, but to really think about the other person. It's not about over giving the way that women do, but really being like, what does this person need from me? And how can I step out of my own ego and give it to them?

• 56:41Speaker 01

  It's going to reveal very quickly if you're with, if you're with someone, you should say or not, because either that's gonna do nothing and they're just gonna keep taking. Or it's gonna really

• 56:53Speaker 01

  open up the energy between the two of you where flow can actually, where love is like flowing freely between the two of you. So I always, I always say that. You know, learn to communicate. If you haven't been a communicator or an advocate of your, of your needs, don't leave before you do that. Because guess what? You're just going to repeat it with someone else.

• 57:13Mindy Pelz?

  Exactly. I was just gonna say, don't miss the opportunity to practice standing up for yourself.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. Because if you're just, it's gonna be the same pattern with someone else. And then you're gonna end that relationship with the story. Yeah, he just, they just weren't right for me. When really it could have been your patterns contributed to what was not working as well.

• 57:33Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  And then there's just sometimes you just. I do believe that divorce is a human right. I don't believe in staying in a relationship for decades miserable. But I do believe in having the hard conversations and stepping outside your comfort zone. And I do believe that it's really big spiritual work to be in a relationship. And if you're just fricking miserable, call it. Life is too short.

• 58:02Mindy Pelz?

  Right. Do you, do you believe in marriage?

• 58:11Speaker 01

  I. You know, it's funny. I've never been asked that question before, which is shocking. Um.

• 58:17Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  I, I don't really believe in the institution of it. I don't believe in. You stay in something miserable because you have a piece of paper between the two of you. I don't believe, I used to think that when you're married, that's the ultimate commitment. I don't really believe that. But I do. The romantic in me and even the practical side of me, I do like the idea of. We have. Gone through a ritual that is telling the us and the world that we are going to do what we can. To make this a thriving relationship.

• 59:00Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  And I think there's something um important about that.

• 59:06Mindy Pelz?

  You know, the way that marriage was originally uh defined was for. Technically, the, the way I've researched it is for the woman because she wasn't working. And so, you know, we go way back, right? There was a dowry, there was everything was like, okay. She wasn't educated, she's not working, so she needs a man. And now we have women that don't need that. And so, one of the things that, right, thank God is right. And one of the things I've thought deeply about is that. We need to redefine marriage. I think there needs to be, it's like an outdated institution or container that we're trying to take modern day people and fit it in there.

• 59:48Mindy Pelz?

  And there needs to be some redefinition of it.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:53Mindy Pelz?

  And I, I don't know what that would be. Like, a part of me is like, there should, like, just because you put a ring on it in my twenties, doesn't mean that you just get to own me forever. Like, there needs, I almost feel like there should be every ten years, there should be like, hey, is this still working?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  No, I, I agree. Every fi- every year, I think a couple should sit down and just say, you know, what's working, what's not working. I love the idea of people renewing their vows, and I love what you said, because I think that, um, I think that, like, marriage vows, instead of like, I promise to love you forever, it should be, I promise to like, show up even when I'm not in the mood. I promise to, to make my emotional health and my physical health a priority, so I can show up better. I, you know, all these things that take more personal accountability.

• 1:00:44Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, I love that.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  And I am a very, very strong believer that every woman should have her own money.

• 1:00:53Mindy Pelz?

  Hmm, agreed, agreed, because otherwise, then she's not.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Then she's trapped.

• 1:00:57Mindy Pelz?

  Then she's trapped. It's, it's really true. And it's interesting, so my twenty-five-year-old daughter just got engaged.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 1:01:05Mindy Pelz?

  And, and so she's getting married next summer, and I, I mean, I'm in full transparency, I have a lot of mixed feelings as, as a woman to woman about, you know, just the, what she's entering into. And the reason I say that is because at the point she's at right now, all she can see is how beautiful it is.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:29Mindy Pelz?

  And there's like, a part of me that wants to impart some motherly wisdom to her of like, you know, it's beautiful, and it's messy, and it's painful. It's all those things, so just keep that in mind. I actually had, uh, five mama bears, uh, come and throw me a shower when I got married. They were my mom's best friends, and they all were in long-term relationships. And one of them said to me, in my, I guess I, at that time, I must have been twenty-seven, twenty-eight years old. She very boldly said to me, Um, I just want you to know that there's gonna be a day that you wake up in the morning and say, what the fuck did I do?

• 1:02:15Mindy Pelz?

  And I was like, you know, about twenty-seven, I was like, what? No, I love this man. But do you know that the day that happened to me? I knew it was normal. I knew that that was part of the process.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  So I love that. And maybe as someone who's been married for so long and you're still married, you tell your daughter that and then tell her what to do when that happens. Not to panic. What she should do instead. Probably means like, you know, she has to have a, you know, have a conversation about maybe, you know, take care of her resentment. Take care of herself. Make sure she's giving to herself as much as she's giving to the relationship.

• 1:02:57Mindy Pelz?

  Beautiful. That's beautiful. I love that.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Mindy Pelz?

  Well, I just, I loved this conversation. I, you know, I could talk to you for hours. I really, again, I, I believe in saying it like it is. And um, I think when it comes to relationships, that's a big problem because we don't say it like it is. And this is how we end up in all these kind of messes. So, yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Well, I want to thank you so much for having me.

• 1:03:24Mindy Pelz?

  Yeah. And how, how can people find you? I know you've been a little bit on a hiatus. What are you up to next?

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  I know, well, new book coming, so I'm gonna work on that. But uh, yeah, people can find me at GillianTurecki.com. I have a membership for women called The Conscious Woman, helping women to actually discover this within themselves. And uh, yeah, Instagram, I've got my podcast, Gillian on Love, and all the social media channels. Um, yeah, and my book, of course, Begins with You.

• 1:03:56Mindy Pelz?

  Awesome. Well, thank you. I really appreciated this conversation. And I, I hope we connect in person someday.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  I need to.

• 1:04:03Mindy Pelz?

  I'm an in-person person. I, I like, I like the energy that happens between two people when they're live. So we'll make that happen at some point. So thank you, Gillian.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:14Mindy Pelz?

  Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.