Draymond Green, 4x NBA champ, opens up on public perception, owning mistakes, a legacy built on doubt, Steph’s imposter syndrome, LeBron’s ring culture, KD’s future & a raw truth: how his actions have impacted his family. Regret, growth & real talk.

“I realized- dam, I’m causing them shit now and I’m not able to take it…I almost need to save them from me now. I’ll come save you from anybody, and now, I have to come save you from me.” Draymond Green In one of the most personal and revealing episodes of The Pivot Podcast, 4x NBA champion and outspoken leader Draymond Green joins Ryan Clark, Channing Crowder, and Fred Taylor for a raw, unfiltered conversation that dives deep into the mind of one of sports' most polarizing figures. Draymond opens up about his journey from Saginaw, Michigan to the NBA spotlight, the evolution of his role with the Golden State Warriors, and the challenge of balancing intensity with leadership. He reflects on the highs and lows of his career—including that infamous punch—and how holding teammates accountable has shifted into something deeper: holding himself to an even higher standard. He speaks candidly about the moments he regrets—on and off the court—and how his passion, at times unchecked, has shaped him as a teammate, a leader, and a man. Offering rare insight into who he is beyond the headlines, Draymond contrasts public perception with personal truth, sharing emotional stories of fatherhood, the sacrifices of family, and one pivotal moment that nearly made him walk away from the game he loves. He also addresses Steph Curry’s recent admission of imposter syndrome—why it surprised him, and why it didn’t—shedding light on the bond between teammates whose dynasty was fueled by doubt and relentless drive. Draymond also breaks down LeBron James’ take on ring culture, offering clarity on a message he believes was misunderstood, and shares thoughts on KD’s future and the shifting nature of loyalty in the NBA. From legacy to leadership, mindset to media, Draymond doesn’t hold back—offering one of the most honest, vulnerable, and introspective conversations of his career. With retirement now looming, he reflects on the fears that come with closing this chapter and the legacy he hopes to leave behind. This isn’t just a basketball conversation—it’s a story of growth, accountability, and a story of one of the most misunderstood sports' figures. Tap in now for a side of Draymond Green you've never heard before. Don't forget to subscribe for the latest content and comment to let us know what you think! Get a free trial at https://www.shipstation.com/pivot. Thanks to ShipStation for partnering with us on this episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Golden State Warriors Draymond Green has put together a Hall of Fame-worthy career. That ain't bad for a kid from Saginaw, Michigan. They call him Day Day, and he bonded with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson over doubts about who they'd become. And what they've done is take the Warriors from obscurity to a dynasty. The outspoken forwards' road hasn't been paved with gold. There's been missteps, but all of those things have made him who he is. Whether it's acknowledging the mistake of punching Jordan Poole, or contemplating retirement because of what his antics had done to his family, Green is extremely self-aware. Still, the man who at three years old walked into a store and took a bag of chips because,

• 1:12Ryan Clark?

  as he put it then, "I'm Draymond Green," has more to give the game. So, his bright future in front of the camera may have to wait a while because he's not quite done yet. So pivot fam, buckle your seatbelts and lock in as we start our conversation with 2017 Defensive Player of the Year, four-time All-Star, and most notably, four-time World Champion, Draymond Green.

• 1:37Fred Taylor?

  It feels so much better when you're not sitting on your wallet.

• 1:39Channing Crowder?

  I don't have as much money as you.

• 1:41Fred Taylor?

  Nah, I seen your wallet. Your wallet thicker than mine. I should just smoosh it in. You got all smooshy booty. Channing definitely got a smooshy booty for sure. You gotta do some glute.

• 1:52Channing Crowder?

  But I like to keep my items in my wallet. See, I don't got all y'all items.

• 1:56Fred Taylor?

  Glute holes.

• 1:57Channing Crowder?

  Nah, nah. I like to just pile into it.

• 2:00Fred Taylor?

  Bro, if I go fly, I'll take my wallet and throw it in my backpack so quick, I will not sit on my wallet. Exactly.

• 2:08Channing Crowder?

  Long humor coming to here. What up, D? How you doing, man? What's up, man? Appreciate you.

• 2:13Fred Taylor?

  What's up? What's up? Respect.

• 2:16Ryan Clark?

  Hey, talking about Big Man?

• 2:17Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, Big Man was the one talking about Daphne.

• 2:19Ryan Clark?

  That's how you know, that's how you know Draymond started trouble. He got security. Because you wear six rings.

• 2:26Channing Crowder?

  Man, a six rings be sweet. You ever wore six rings?

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  The shoes.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  Six rings?

• 2:30Channing Crowder?

  Six rings, the Jordan six rings.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  You be wearing six rings?

• 2:33Channing Crowder?

  Man, I got about 12 pairs.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  Get the [__] out of here.

• 2:36Channing Crowder?

  Them shits five.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  That's like wearing Jordan Fusions. You remember wearing Jordan Fusions?

• 2:41Channing Crowder?

  With the Air Force one box?

• 2:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:43Channing Crowder?

  I got about 10 pairs of them.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  Oh, you from the country.

• 2:46Channing Crowder?

  The [__] almost. What is it, Georgia?

• 3:09Ryan Clark?

  Draymond Green, man, welcome to the Pivot.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  I appreciate y'all.

• 3:12Ryan Clark?

  Congratulations with this nine-time All-NBA Defensive Team, four-time All-Star, but more importantly, four-time NBA Champion, future Hall of Famer. This is Channing Crowder, this is Fred T., I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fan, thank you for pivoting with us. I went down a Draymond Green dark hole on the interweb. I found some urban legends of a young Draymond Green. I just want to know if this is true. Your mother and your aunt tell a story about you on a bicycle, going to a grocery store, taking chips, putting them on the counter with no money and telling the people, "I'm Draymond Green."

• 3:48Speaker 04

  You went deep. It's crazy. Neighborhood I grew up in is, you know, I'm from a small city. Everybody know everybody. So the neighborhood I grew up in, at three years old, that's when I took that bike and went to the store. I told them, "You know who I am, I'm Draymond Green." And then they was hot about it, so I went and told my granddad.

• 4:09Speaker 04

  And he always had my back. My granddad was like, he was a man of few words.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  He don't say much, but when he say something, you know, like. And so I went and told my granddad. I walked out of there with what I was trying to get. My granddad went back and paid for me. Yeah, man, I don't know why I did that.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  But when I go back to these stories with my mom, different things as a kid, I kind of always had that confidence. But my mom pushed that. We were not really allowed to be fans in a sense. You can like who you like. But she always pushed, like, you gotta be so confident in yourself. And the way she go about it is, you don't bow down to man. Like, you just don't do it. And so, that's kind of the foundation of who I am. Yeah. You know, I came into the league, that's essentially what made me, is you don't bow down to anybody. So when I came in, it was like, I don't respect none of y'all. Because what you've done, you ain't do it to me.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  You did that to somebody else. And that's because of the foundation, that three-year-old kid. That's awesome. Going to the store saying, you know who I am. I'm gonna take this.

• 5:29Channing Crowder?

  Great story. You just throw the bag of chips, pretty much, is what you did.

• 5:34Channing Crowder?

  The same way he tried to act like Freddie T made the team. You made that shit sound real good. You just throw the bag of chips, because your granddaddy had bread.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  That's a fact.

• 5:44Channing Crowder?

  But to that point, now as a four-time champion, All-Defensive, everything, All-Star and all, Draymond Green and that personality means something now. It didn't mean nothing your whole life. What was the struggles of feeling, like, the feeling that way that you feel inside? How your mom raised you, when you wasn't a champion, wasn't an All-Star?

• 6:06Speaker 04

  You know what? When I look back on it, number one, I've been a champion my whole life. I won in middle school, I won in high school, I won in elementary. So I felt that way. And growing up in a city like that, like, those things matter. You know what I'm saying? It's a small city. You turn the corner, you see him. You turn that corner, you turn that corner, you see you. So, I always, I always felt that way. But I will tell you, her building that foundation like that definitely got me in trouble at times. Because the bravado didn't always add, to your point, the bravado didn't always add up to the guy. But you couldn't necessarily tell me that. Like, to me, it made complete sense.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  And, when I, I ultimately appreciate her pushing me to be that way because, to this day, it is still.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  One of the main reasons that I was able to become what I'm because I was able to always see it like for some reason little kid from Saginaw with with no clue how to make it always knew I know I'm gonna do that thing I'm gonna go and play there I'm gonna be in the NBA and it oftentimes don't make sense to me how this all panned out but then I take the step back and I'm like I did it actually does make sense but I don't know man it's it's a it's a crazy journey because at times although I thought that way I felt that way at times I I still can't fucking believe it really happened

• 7:42Speaker 04

  it's like yeah you always said that you always thought that you know five six years old doing Dr. King I have a dream speech on the stage everybody listened to me I have a dream that one day my four little tri- like everybody lock in here I am right here I always felt that way but they got me in a lot of trouble growing up though man I ain't gonna lie to you

• 8:05Fred Taylor?

  You think it was just well mostly circumstance because we all come from different backgrounds you know much like a lot of other athletes right and people don't always take that deep dive to see how we came up and what we've really been through but you're Saginaw not too far from Flint

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Yeah

• 8:21Fred Taylor?

  I met I know a lot of dudes from Flint I know Kleese, Mo P, Big Shug, Bear Dre Rising who was edgy you know what I'm saying Kmart, J Rich so it's a lot of guys in that that area which isn't separated by much and a lot of them right on the edge kinda like how your personality comes across right when you take that deep dive do you think it's just the circumstance of you know the the demographics in which you were brought up

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Yes because you have to be that way like in that area To your point, we all are kinda the same.

• 8:57Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Right, because that's the, that's the only way you can make it through those places. Like, you can't make it through Saginaw, quiet. If you go to the park, if you don't talk, you don't get on, you can't get on the court. You go to the rec center, you're not talking, you can't get on the court. So, it's almost like a, it's like a law. Like, you learn, you learn to be that way growing up there. Because, again, we growing up in this little city. I may not like you. You right around the corner, bruh.

• 9:29Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  And so on and so forth. And so, in these small, small cities, Sagenaw, you kinda gotta face the issue. Like, I ain't going a week without seeing somebody.

• 9:41Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  You seeing people immediately in this place, like. And so, growing up in these, these couple places, like, it does build a certain type of person because that's the way you have to be. And if you not, like, you kinda just, you just, like, you, you gone with the wind. If, if you, if you not gonna be that person.

• 10:03Ryan Clark?

  You know, you, you've always known who you are. And Saginaw seems much like New Orleans, right? Whereas, like, you knew the person around the corner, he could be your best friend, but there could be a day that y'all ain't getting along, y'all gonna throw hands, you gonna dap up afterwards, we gonna move on.

• 10:21Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 10:21Ryan Clark?

  Right? That, that, that's part of the culture. That's why it's part of how we find solutions. We get things through, and then we're done. You get to college, you know, you get into it with Derrick Nicks, I think it is, like, early on. Then, you know, you and Keith Appling have a little thing at practice, too. But y'all found a way to move on. They understood, we need Draymond Green, you understood, you needed them. But then, when the Jordan Poole situation happens, you're in a different world. And so, now, everything I've always been, everything I've always known is different today. What is it when you have that realization, and now the world is sort of judging who you are at your core about something like that?

• 11:07Speaker 04

  It took me.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  Still at age thirty-three, thirty-four, thirty-five, I still learn those lessons. Cause I'm in tour with Keith Aplin and Derrick Nick, somebody out of nowhere. I could take a punch. I ain't even see it. His ears go crazy. Get him out of here. How dare you. You fucking soft as fuck. You come from the side. Put him out. And I'm in practice like, damn. They caught me from the side, put him out. Yo, we not putting him out of practice. He go in this locker room again. Yo, come back out here. We about, we out, we out of practice. And we move on. It just happened. We not about to, like, what we doing?

• 11:55Speaker 04

  It's my teammate, fine. Like, yeah, you got me. We move on. And I've had a bunch of situations like that growing up. Sometimes I was the guy, sometimes I wasn't. Regardless, we move on. And so that's how I've always approached it, you know, and in college, freshman year, I'm talking to one of the OGs, Goran Sutan. I'm in my chair, let's sit back like this, locker room. We'd been going at it on the court, locker room. And he could feel it, like his locker right next to mine. He could feel it. I'm getting there. I'm like, alright, I'm about to get up. I'm about to get, bro. As I'm thinking that, as I try to get up, and I'm a freshman again, so this is a fifth-year senior, good luck. Right.

• 12:39Speaker 04

  As I'm trying to get up, he caught me in that chair, had me pinned down. What you gonna do? And he on top of me. Alright, we move on. So when, when that situation happened, I'm like, alright, cool, we move on. And then when we couldn't, I was like, huh? And for a while, it made me think like, man, this dude nothing like me. Like, cause when those things happen, you just move on. But it taught me so much, because it taught me, you're right, he may not be like you. He ain't from where you from. The things you went through, the way you had to come up, he may not have came up like that. So for that...

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Five seconds, I forgot where I was at. Because I immediately went to what I know. But what you know don't really work here. And everybody say, "Oh, man, but you was 10 years in, you should know better." Still learning, nine years in.

• 13:42Speaker 04

  But it's them lessons like that that ultimately make me who I am to this day. Because, man, I fucked that up.

• 13:51Channing Crowder?

  I know you hate the angry black man title. Because it means so much more than just the adjectives and the nouns. Because that's why they try to title people, you know, the rebellious and all that stuff. So I say, "You are a African-American male that might have anger problems."

• 14:13Ryan Clark?

  So you just go, you go get, you the technical term.

• 14:16Channing Crowder?

  That's what he said, because you, I heard you say you don't like angry black men. But you just, you, it's crazy to look online and it's like, Draymond Green's 32 fights. Like, "I'm gonna fight 32 times while playing basketball." So, like, to this conversation, we're just like, and I'm like that too. Man, we can lock up, go have a beer afterwards. I told stories about in NFL, we'll wrestle in the locker room, get my lip busted. Oh, we'll slide to the strip club in a little bit, have a good time. But it seems as if you might have a little, a little something else inside of you. Like, I don't know what makes it, but you can't, almost can't control yourself at times.

• 15:01Channing Crowder?

  I've seen that.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  You know what? And I'm not afraid to admit that to you.

• 15:08Speaker 04

  When I'm on that court, it's a different person. The guy who sit here with you right now, it's not the same person. And it took me a long time to accept it. When I say a long time, maybe like the last year. Because, but I had to go through it to realize that and be comfortable with accepting that. So, on the court, I'm in a different space. What it requires me to be great. I gotta take it there. I don't jump like these dudes. I'm not as fast as these dudes. My edge is I can get you here though.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  But I'm also not fake. So if I can get you here, I still gotta be willing to go there. Or how do I really get you here? If I ain't really willing to, you see through it. And so, the problem I have with the angry black man is, in accepting what it is, which is, I know the guy who on the court is a different dude. It's also what make me be, have the opportunity to be a catalyst of four championships. It's what makes the nine defensive teams at with the limitations that I have. And so, the problem I have with that is,

• 16:22Speaker 04

  maybe on the court, that's possibly true. But people take the court, and then apply it to the man that comes sit here. And that's not the case.

• 16:31Channing Crowder?

  The father as the husband, as the businessman, is all that.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  That's not the case, you know what I'm saying? Like, I play basketball.

• 16:39Speaker 04

  A, it's entertainment.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  B, we're competing. Something that I would do on the court,

• 16:47Speaker 04

  you couldn't get me to do sitting right here. You couldn't even get me off my square like that.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  I saw Fred Van Vliet last night. Me and Fred, we got a relationship. Got a lot of respect for him, young fella. Like, his journey, beat me in the championship. And we playing Houston. And I kinda got this thing, bruh, if I'm playing against you and I rock with you, because I know I could go there. If I'm playing with you and I rock with you, you get into some, I ain't getting in that because, bruh, I don't fuck with many people. So, me and Fred got into a game three. I said some choice words that as soon as I said them,

• 17:24Speaker 04

  I knew it right away. That series went seven, I never said the words again in the rest of the series. We dapped it up, we hugged up. I saw Fred last night, he was with Rich. I pull up, he like, yo, I need to talk to you. Soon as I got to the table, I said, what's up to everybody? Creep back around, pull his chair up over here. What's up, talk to me. What you said, the words you said, like, we, I was... And soon as he starts, I said, I'm sorry. I was wrong. And I knew it right away. But when we on the court, I'm into it. I'm mixing it up with your teammates. And he did what he had to do.

• 18:00Speaker 04

  I'm mixing it up with your teammates and you coming to the rescue. But the way these little niggas talking and you come to their rescue. Part of them now. You with them now. Agreed. The gloves are off. I'm willing to go there now. And to your point, right there, I'm like, it's over. We in it. I actually wanted to see you. Because I felt as soon as I did, ah.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  And so, that's the problem I have with it is. Don't try to take what I'm doing, what I do in my job, what I do to make a living, what I do to competing, and try to dumb me down to just that. Because I'm way smarter than that. I'm so far from that and the man that's standing here. When I do my job, I am. But they try to put the angry black man tag on you like you walk out in the world. You ain't got good sense. I'm far from him.

• 18:59Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a Superior Light Beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 19:27Fred Taylor?

  I think a lot of it is, there's so much PTSD in our community. And when you look at patterns, that's for anyone. It becomes a part of our personality. A lot of times and you know it's it's really hard to differentiate between the two. So that's probably why you know someone might look at you and say, oh, that go that crazy ass Draymond. Well, you better watch out. You never know what he's thinking or what he's gonna do. Because it's psychologically, that's how it's labeled. Or you know, or even sociology, that's how it's labeled. But every time I see you, I believe that the the the Nas Ether song just gonna start playing.

• 20:11Fred Taylor?

  You know, the one with Deion got the voiceover. What about you or what about me think you worry about my opinion, your opinion of me? Right? I believe that you just have that mindset. And am I far off? Like, do you worry about any of the stuff that you hear on the outside?

• 20:28Speaker 04

  For a long time I did it. Until it really started to affect me.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  Started to affect people around me. I never cared.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  And then it's like, wait a minute, they're they're saying I'm this. They're almost portraying me as if I'm a dummy.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  As if I can't control myself.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Before that, I'd say over the last two, three years of where where it start like, oh, no, like this guy can't control himself.

• 21:07Speaker 04

  But don't say that to me because we ain't doing that well. Because when we was doing great, I was the same person. And it was like, oh, that's how they win. But because we ain't doing well, now I'm crazy? Nah, like, that's my edge. Like, they like, yo, he can't control himself on the court. No, you did some bullshit and I'm just gonna get you back. I'm not fake, so I'm not hiding. I'm not gonna act like I ain't tried to do it. No, you shouldn't have did that shit. And if I let you get away with that, then I don't have an edge on you. So I can't let you get away with that. So I'm going to get you back. And I'm not hiding getting you back. So you will see me get you back. The way I kind of view it is, for me, it's conscious over consequence.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  I gotta deal with my own conscience when I walk out of here. I can sleep better at night dealing with the consequence than I can my conscience. So I'm going to fucking get you back.

• 22:03Ryan Clark?

  Shannon, who he sound like? Who does he sound like? So, I'm gonna tell you, bro.

• 22:10Channing Crowder?

  He can't let things go.

• 22:14Ryan Clark?

  Dre, here's the thing, man, like, we have had, it's just select basketball players have been on our show. And Fred Van Vliet, Vliet was one of them, Chris Paul, you. There are certain ones that sit down, and right away when they sit down, I go, that's my type of guy. Right? We had Dejounte Murray on recently, and I was like, it's my type of guy. I think what sort of locked me into what you were saying about Fred is that you did something to him that he couldn't let go either, right? But instead of making it a big deal and tweeting or having, he pulled you aside like a man in a quiet moment and said, hey, I love, I don't need to talk to you.

• 22:59Ryan Clark?

  And I respect that so much that you were willing to sit down, but also on his side of it, being built in a way where you have conversations with men when you disagree with them. And so I just wanted to say, man, like, I just really respect the fact that he could pull you aside and you could say, nah, man, in that case, I was wrong, I knew it right away, I was looking for you too. I respect that, man.

• 23:22Speaker 04

  No doubt, and those guys you just named?

• 23:26Speaker 04

  CP, I hated, man. And then I got the opportunity to play with one of my favorite teammates of all time. He probably gets tired of me sometimes, I just randomly out the blue calling. He don't answer, I call right back, he hit me back. Like, see what you're doing, we get hour and a half conversation out the blue.

• 23:44Speaker 04

  Dejounte, since he came into the NBA, I first met him. I just poured love into him, like, "Bro, play against him, just try to give him tips." He had his first camp in Seattle last year. I went. I loved Dejounte. Fred just spoke about him.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  So the guys you named, and them also, them are my type of guys. Like, I don't have a relationship with many guys in the NBA, but the ones that I have is strong. And those guys, they are the type of guys. I've had a mix-up with all of them.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  CP, we mixed it up for years. But I can move past those things.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  When you talk as men. What I don't respect is, I told Fred, I said, "Man, the rest of the night, I kept going back, like, 'Bro, I'm so happy you talked to me.'" Because you don't know how many times I go through this, and like, you think you got a relationship with somebody, and something happened in the game, and they fold. Then you see them, they weird, uh. Like, "Bro, just talk to me." Right. If I was wrong, I'll tell you I was wrong. If I, or I'll give you my side. Or, I'll tell you I was wrong, and Fred, this where it came from. You know what I'm saying, like?

• 25:01Speaker 04

  But don't get weird, these dudes, they be getting weird. And I don't understand that, like, "Bro, we, we can have a conversation." Right. And so again, with all of those guys that you just named, Fred, we had our moment. CP, we had moments. Me and Dejounte actually got into it once in Carbone in Vegas. We standing there referring from clutch. Dejounte come downstairs, he wasn't even down there with us, he come downstairs to talk. And I had said something to him that he didn't like. When I played it back,

• 25:34Speaker 04

  young fella taught me something, because I was dead-ass wrong.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  And I would never share what it was, but he taught me something in that moment. And we mixed it up. We was about to fight. And I told my boy Trav, I'm like, man, my boy's like, man. Me and Dejounte, they know how hard I rock with him. And I waited to see him. And my first time seeing him was, we played him. And we were standing at the free throw line. And boom, we had the conversation. Cause I hit him up and he was hot and I, he actually had to, he was 1,000% right to be hot like that. But I'm not going to let this go on without having a conversation. So if we gotta have this conversation right here on this court, if that's where I'm gonna get the conversation at, that's where I'm gonna get the conversation.

• 26:20Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  Pharoah was so goddamn happy. She's like, I'm so happy y'all talk. But like when I have these situations with people, from that point on, I know you my type of person. So the relationship just gets so much stronger. Like, all those guys, because the relation, like, I told Trav last night, I'm like, Trav. No, I actually just told him walking over here, I said, Trav, my relationship with Pharoah about to get so much stronger. And it's already strong. It's about to get so much stronger because, man, you so much like me. Like, you wanna have that conversation. I wanna have that conversation. I don't wanna be weird, bruh. We come in the spot, you acting weird. Now I feel like, you know, dude start acting weird, I feel a little like a bully because you won't talk.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  Like, man, just talk. Like, you know what I'm saying? Now I gotta kinda tiptoe because I know you acting weird. And I don't want you to think I'm bullying you because if I was trying to bully you, I'd just bully you. Like, just talk to me, man. And so, all of those guys. There was a conversation and the relationship just go, but that's my type of guy, man.

• 27:27Ryan Clark?

  Well, I just want you to know, what Shannon calls it is assholes love assholes. And so he says that.

• 27:33Channing Crowder?

  Oh, he's an asshole. I don't know if you knew that. Didn't anybody ever tell you that? You talking about real men telling you stuff. You know you asshole?

• 27:42Speaker 04

  I'm a very, very nice person.

• 27:45Channing Crowder?

  To who?

• 27:45Speaker 04

  He said he's an asshole on the court.

• 27:47Channing Crowder?

  He's been great to me.

• 27:47Ryan Clark?

  On the court, okay, yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's been, since the moment I met him, he's been awesome.

• 27:53Speaker 04

  I don't think, I'm, I think I'm actually too nice.

• 27:56Channing Crowder?

  Listen, I've heard, listen, you just stuttered, and you don't stutter, I watch you on, I watch you on TV. You see how you, see how you bring it.

• 28:02Ryan Clark?

  And he's so articulate, right?

• 28:03Channing Crowder?

  See, I bring it back in your mind, because that's you running from it. Don't run from it, embrace your asshole-ism.

• 28:09Speaker 04

  No, on the court, I'm a complete asshole.

• 28:12Channing Crowder?

  To that, I've actually, I've, because you talking about people. You'll beat the hell out of them Europeans, you choke the hell out of Gobert, Ner, what Nerkis, you slapped the shit out of him, Zabonis, you yoked him on his head.

• 28:24Speaker 04

  Hit him with the.

• 28:25Channing Crowder?

  And what's the boy this year, Houston, oh, Shangoon? Boy, you were giving, why you kept pushing the man, grabbing his arm, elbowing him in the ribs? But, I did notice, when Big Steve Adams came out there, you kind of calmed down a little bit.

• 28:38Speaker 04

  You know what? With Shangoon, number one, this your first time in the playoffs, I gotta test that.

• 28:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  He 23 years old, he only getting better in this league, I gotta test that.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  I need to try to have something mentally on you as I age into this career, and you getting better in yours.

• 28:57Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 04

  I gotta test that.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  I gained so much respect for that young fella in that series because, I told Fred this last night, in the beginning, he was folding.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  He was folding in the beginning. And he caught up, and he was, and he stood up.

• 29:15Speaker 04

  And, once you stand up, we gonna go at it, but I ain't, like, alright, I like that, like, yeah, alright, cool.

• 29:23Channing Crowder?

  Gain respect.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  And I gained respect for him. Steven Adams, there's, that respect is already there.

• 29:29Channing Crowder?

  I got you.

• 29:29Speaker 04

  Like, we've been through the.

• 29:31Channing Crowder?

  You kicked him in the dick.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  I ain't try to, but, you know, he.

• 29:36Channing Crowder?

  But it, it.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  What is wrong with you?

• 29:39Channing Crowder?

  I mean, I watch it, man, in the playoffs every year, I love asking for it.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  But check this out, though, you know what? Right after that game, and after the series, I waited for him in the hallway. Wait, chopper up.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  And you know what he said, "Bro, we out there playing basketball." To the point of this being a guy, I don't need to mix it up with like that because there is that mutual respect. A reporter asked him during the series, trying to, some question trying to like make me look crazy. And he said, "Man, we out there battling for something."

• 30:13Speaker 04

  We both trying to get the same thing. He ain't crazy. That's what happened, and so many words, that's what happened between the lines and he just out there doing that. In the middle of the series, he says this to a reporter. That's why you don't see that. Because what we gonna get into about, I'm a boom. Man, Steven Adams strong as hell. But as the series went on, if you go watch the film, bro, on the box, I just start grabbing his arms, like, "Bro, I'm just grabbing you." Because I'm ending up on the floor too much. Like, I can't keep ending up on the floor, getting up, like after every, I'm getting up to take the ball out. Like, I'm ending up on this floor too much. I gotta hold this defense down. I'm 6'5", bro. I gotta hold this, I gotta anchor this defense. I can't keep ending up on the floor.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Might look at me a certain time, so I just start grabbing, bro. And I come out of nowhere, boom. He come out of nowhere, just like throw me down like a rock job. And I'm like, I don't get up and say nothing to him. I come out of nowhere, bow. He don't say nothing. It's a, it's a respect there. It's a respect for the competition. So it's no need, like, we mixed it up before. The respect level is already there.

• 31:23Fred Taylor?

  Channing, Channing had a similar moment. But when he went to meet the guy, not in the hallway, he went to the bus. And it was a different type of situation. You're, Matt like-

• 31:33Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, we, we got it too. I talked a lot of trash and I'll ask you this, hey, cause you, you talk trash, I see. I don't know what you're saying. Ain't y'all, ain't, why y'all be all cute with your little mouth covering your mouth up and down?

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Because, man, you had the helmet on, you could say anything. This camera catch everything we say.

• 31:49Channing Crowder?

  Everything, bro.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  Everything.

• 31:51Channing Crowder?

  If you ever, if you ever talked trash and hit too close to home, well, you done really upset some dude. Cause they, you can call them all the names, soft and all that stuff. It's just, it's just sports. I used to do research on guys. Well, like, dudes, dudes would play with guys in college and now we on different teams and they knew I talked. And they'd be like, "Hey, well, he did this in college," or "His old lady, who's now his wife, did this in college." And I would say that during the game and then I'd see a dude look like- And I'd be like, oh, I got him now. Have you ever got too close to home with trash talk?

• 32:24Speaker 04

  Bruh, I didn't, I didn't went so close to home, bruh. I, I don't do the woman thing. Like, I ain't gonna talk about your lady. That, that's where I draw the line. It's about the only line I draw, cuz your mom, I'm crushing her. And everybody else. I ain't gonna talk about, I ain't gonna talk about your lady, I ain't gonna talk about your kids. Those two to me, they off limits. If you start talking about somebody lady, I don't respect that. So, if I even hear something like that, it ain't even gotta involve me. I'm coming to the defense of the guy.

• 33:01Channing Crowder?

  Who ever get to that?

• 33:02Speaker 04

  Jalen Green. Everybody had their opinions on him. It's one of the things that really pissed me off in this series and why I went at bruh so crazy. Everybody talking shit about him and his, and his, his woman. That ain't none of y'all business. Get out that man's business. I'm publicly defending him, like, y'all, y'all stop. That's whack to me. I don't rock with that. So, that's where I draw the line. But, I have said some stuff that I wasn't too proud of. That hit way too close to home, bruh. I've talked, I, I, I won't put specific people's names out there. But I've said stuff to people about dead siblings, all type of stuff. And, and, and it's like, it was very low.

• 33:43Speaker 04

  But he was kinda attacking me, so I, you know, I'm, I, I, then I don't know how to stop. But, I can draw the line with those two. But yeah, bruh, I've had too many, um, that went way too close to home. But that's where it, it is. Like, that's what we do. That's, again, growing up in Saginaw, there is no line. You gotta find the angle and you gotta use it. And I, I do my research, so I already know stuff. So if you, I ain't gonna lead out, though. I don't lead out with like, stuff like that. I'ma lead out talking shit. Maybe. If, if I need to get under your skin, you gotta be really good for me to be trying to do that, though. But... I don't lead out with that stuff, but where people get fucked up is,

• 34:26Speaker 04

  once you go there with me, the gloves off. I, I'm gonna say whatever I'd have to say, whatever I think. I don't really think the two things about the kids and the lady, because those are just off limits things. But anything else, I don't give a how deep it is. And I, I've had some ones, bro, that my boys think I'm crazy, like, "Dad, you crazy, you can't say that to him." Like, but I had to say that, like, and, and so, yes, I agree with, but you wild for like going to the ladies and stuff. We would have had to fight.

• 34:53Channing Crowder?

  Nah, they did, they did the cheap shot, hitting in the back and all kind of stuff. And then, okay, well, we got, anybody ever got you?

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Well, as far as my lady?

• 35:04Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, just.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  Cheap shots?

• 35:05Channing Crowder?

  No, got you verbally, where you done turned, like, they, they Draymond, they Draymond Green, Draymond Green.

• 35:13Speaker 04

  No.

• 35:16Speaker 04

  From a, nah, man, hell no.

• 35:21Speaker 04

  Because you gotta be willing to go so far. And guys really ain't willing to go that far.

• 35:26Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man, first off, the summer is hot as heck already. And it's already chaotic for us, bro, the way we moving around. And when you really get to moving around like this, you want to focus on the thing that you gotta do. And for us, that's making content. The cool part is, for all of our e-commerce needs, we can use ShipStation. It allows that day-to-day shipping and that moving and that labeling to be done without us having to be ingrained in it every single day.

• 35:51Channing Crowder?

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• 36:06Ryan Clark?

  And you gotta think about it, bro, all on one dashboard, and at the push of a button, you can get all of your e-commerce and shipping needs done with ShipStation. You can't beat that.

• 36:14Channing Crowder?

  You know I'm a tech dummy. And I can do ShipStation. So if I can do ShipStation, everybody can do ShipStation.

• 36:19Fred Taylor?

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• 36:30Channing Crowder?

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• 36:39Ryan Clark?

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• 36:59Ryan Clark?

  Recently, Steph said he deals with imposter syndrome, right? And I kinda talked about it, being an undrafted guy, and saying, yeah, like, there are those doubts that creep in from time to time because you remember the adversities, you remember the struggles. You know, you, a second-round guy that goes on to be a Hall of Famer and an NBA champion. In playing with Steph and even through your career, how have doubts crept in to what you guys were trying to accomplish together based on the fact that both of you were not expected to be what you've become?

• 37:44Speaker 04

  You know, when I saw Steph say that, I was like, damn. I know Steph really well. We've spent 13 years together. I've probably spent more time with Steph over the last 13 years than anybody in my life. Because at home, you together, practice, gym, game, that thing, this thing. On the road, you together. At home, I'm with my family. On the road, I ain't. I'm always with for the last 13 years. So I know him really well. I didn't really know that.

• 38:14Speaker 04

  But when he said it, I was like, ah, makes sense. Because I too feel like that times. But I'm also not Steph Curry, so I'm like, oh, dang, him too. The doubt for both of us, it's what our journey is built on. Klay too. Like, wasn't highly ranked coming out of high school, you know? Went to Washington State. Klay, he loved Washington State. But come on, bro, you went to Washington State for basketball. What are you talking about?

• 38:46Speaker 04

  We all were in a sense overlooked. And so the doubt is actually what did this for us. You didn't see it coming. You doubted all of us. He too, he too small, not strong enough. He can't dribble well enough, blah, blah, blah. He can't play. He's, he don't shoot it. About all of us. And our foundation is actually built on. I'm covering his weakness here. He covering my weakness there. He gonna cover his weakness there. It's all because of the doubt. We bonded around that and used everything we had together to lift this thing up.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  And so the doubt, when I go back and I look back on the journey. It all started at the same place for all of us, although different. Very different, right? Like they sons of NBA players, I'm gonna sag it on with shit. Right? But yet all doubted. And that's what brought us together and lifted us up and created this thing that I still can't believe. Like damn, we won four championships. Yeah. Like what? But it is built on the doubt. It's like we banded around each other on the doubt. And I think that's, that's, that's one of the most beautiful parts about our journey. But yet it's also what makes it what it is. Because it's the reason we have such a fondness of each other.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  It's the reason that we'll go to hell and back. People be like, yo, I don't know how Steph deal with him. I don't know why Steph still want him on this team. You'll never understand why. You'll never know everything. We went through the conversations. We have the things we go through. You'll never know. But again, we're bonded by the doubt. That's what ultimately brought us together. So it's probably the key ingredient to everything you've seen us do. It's the doubt. And so we put those things together. We relied on each other. There is no one of us without the other one. You can say, oh, man, there's no Draymond without Steph. There's no Steph without Draymond. There's no Klay without Steph.

• 40:53Speaker 04

  There is not one of us without each other. Could we all have reached our own individual greatness somewhere else? You got it, you got it. It come out somehow. Yeah. But through the doubt, on top, standing on top of the doubt. No, we built this thing that you can never speak about me without them to and vice versa. And I love that Steph is so great that people think they don't need to. I love that. That's my brother. I want, I want everybody in the world to think he's as great as I think he is. So I think he the greatest in the world. You can't tell me nothing. So I love that, you know, but on the flip side amongst that group, we feel that way. So I really don't give a shit what anybody else think.

• 41:37Fred Taylor?

  I love that. That's what I felt too. That ether song just started.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 42:12Fred Taylor?

  But we, we all have been through moments of, of doubt as we tend to age in our sports, right? We start like kind of looking out like, man, I don't know. Cause you're not able to, to reach that, you know, that, that, that, that highest of highs, you know, in your ability. RC's been through it. Channing's been through it. A 13 year career, 13 year career. He's the only one in here that's won football, a Super Bowl, right? You've won four championships in the NBA, like the pinnacle, four times. Steph, the whole crew. Do you think that doubt creeps in more as you guys start to, you know, get older and your abilities start to come down a little bit? You can kind of see on the horizon.

• 42:56Fred Taylor?

  You've even mentioned about retirement, right? You're doing, you're an active player doing inside the NBA. So it's not too far. You're getting ready for your post-career. Like, do you think any of that has anything to do with you, you guys being able to recognize that imposter syndrome?

• 43:15Speaker 04

  1,000%. I think.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  But it's also our respect for the craft. You know, it's the respect for the greatness. So sometimes, like some of these things that's happened to me. I love Steve Kerr, man. We've had our battles.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  Man. But he know me like a book now. And I know him like a book. And some of the things that's happened with me over the last couple of years is due to the doubt. Self-doubt. Because I'm like, man. Like, I ain't able to get to that level sometimes that I thought I...

• 43:55Fred Taylor?

  It's frustrating.

• 43:56Speaker 04

  And it's frustrating. And I'm like, fuck, like, I'm willing to do anything to get to that level. And so that crazy anger you're talking about, sometimes that come out because I'm like, I'm struggling. And I need to put, I'm trying so hard to push through it, that I'm willing to do anything, but this league ain't really cut for that. You know what I'm saying? So that doubt that you speak on is also what's still pushing us. Especially me, but that doubt is also some, that has led me to some of these things over the last couple of years. Because when I knocked Nurkic out, I really couldn't find it that game. And they was like, I ain't knock him out, but you know, like, pow, he went down.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  He laid down. So it probably is a knockout because you a big man, you can't lay down like that.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  So, but that game,

• 44:49Speaker 04

  I had nothing. I was terrible. Whole first half, we start the third quarter, I'm trying to find it. Bro grabbing my side, wow! Like,

• 45:00Speaker 04

  you look at some of these situations and it's like, you start looking at that and you become self-conscious about it. And so when I'm feeling within myself that, and then it's like fight or flight mode. You know what I'm saying? Like, and I go into that and it lead to some of these moments. I feel that as I get older in this league. And that's what I've been trying to channel. Because, so this year, I was able to get back to, like, a high, high level of playing. And I think one of the things that pissed me off was like the angry black man is like, now I'm getting penalized and I'm actually chilling. I'm actually chilling because I ain't feeling that doubt of like, ah, fight or flight.

• 45:45Speaker 04

  Like, no, it's all working for me. And now I'm being penalized, which I'm actually out here chilling now. That thing ain't sparking me the way it was because I'm actually playing at a great level that I think I need to be playing at. And so the doubt ain't triggering something. But that doubt triggers something for me, man, because I want to be at that elite level still. And if I'm not, then I gotta do whatever I need to do to get to that level. But again, it's like, it's something that, I told you, bro, I therapy all that. Therapy helping. That's what I'm saying, it's something that I talk about with my therapist because it's a real thing for me, bro. I've been a basketball player my whole life. When you start to see a little bit of a decline, it's like, whoa, damn, I ain't, whoa.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  But I'm still at that level, I can still get there, so I'mma do whatever. But the therapy has helped me a lot, bro. It's helped me a lot.

• 46:36Channing Crowder?

  If a dude calls you, I'm trying to cuss less, I'm trying to better myself. If dude calls you a female dog, you could walk away?

• 46:44Speaker 04

  The last time I was called that, I punched somebody. I'm still learning.

• 46:49Channing Crowder?

  Tomorrow, if it happens.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  If we was just walking down the street?

• 46:53Channing Crowder?

  Just going to grab, going to the bodega?

• 46:55Speaker 04

  I might stop, but I'mma keep it pushing.

• 47:00Channing Crowder?

  So it's working.

• 47:00Ryan Clark?

  Because you can, but you can realize those people aren't worth it.

• 47:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:04Ryan Clark?

  That's the conversation you always have, like, why am I gonna lose? Or why would Draymond Green from Saginaw, Michigan, who had nothing, lose that over this person? And I think, you know, like, that is part of the growth.

• 47:21Speaker 04

  Can I say something one second before you go? But that's not my struggle.

• 47:26Channing Crowder?

  Your struggle's on the court.

• 47:28Speaker 04

  The struggle is if you call me that on court, where do I go?

• 47:32Speaker 04

  Because if you call me that in life.

• 47:34Channing Crowder?

  You good.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  Bro, you not getting me off my square like that. In my mind, I probably think I can whoop you, but you ain't getting me off my square like that. The problem I have is on the court. And that's why when I was, um, suspended with Nurkic, and I'm talking to Adam Silver, I'm like, Adam, I'm done. I don't want to play anymore. Because the problem for me is on the court, and I felt like, damn, I got a bright future after this. And this court is about to cause, it's about to cost me that. And so, if I'm walking to the bodega, no problem. But that ain't my issue. My issue is on the court. You called me that, and I'm in a different headspace? How do I handle that?

• 48:20Speaker 04

  And that's also, like, that's where the therapy is like, that's where I, because that's the guy that really needed the help. And so, if it was happening on the court today, I still can't 100% say to you

• 48:38Speaker 04

  that I won't do anything.

• 48:40Channing Crowder?

  You're two different people, is what you're saying.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 48:43Channing Crowder?

  Like the hawk.

• 48:45Channing Crowder?

  Ben is a scientist, smart as hell, sensible, but then he gets mad and becomes this irrational monster.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  Absolutely. It took me a while to accept that. But that's just on the basketball court. Off the court, the likelihood that you'll see me how I am on a basketball court is so slim. Off the court, unless I'm comfortable, I won't even say much. If you talk to my family, by the way, they be like, oh, my mom, they trip my mom out, she come to the house, she come in town, and people say all these things, she be like, if they only know, you don't even talk. I don't say much. I gotta be really comfortable in the situation to talk. And so that's why I was like, yo, it's really confused, it's really, like, this is bleeding over here. And I take so much pride in the man that I am, how I stand, that I was gonna be done. I'm like, no, I'm done, like, because it's costing me.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  So, that, yeah, just, yeah, I mean, I am. But it took, it took me some, it took me, uh...

• 49:48Speaker 04

  Lot of inner work. And I'm also, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but I'm writing a book. And that process was so therapeutic for me. Because it's actually where I worked my way through, I was writing. It's actually where I worked my way through, like, oh shit. It is two different people. I'm like, they probably think I'm crazy as hell. But it is two different people. On the court, like, I am a menace.

• 50:19Ryan Clark?

  You think?

• 50:21Speaker 04

  But off the court, I think I'm, I think I'm arguably one of the nicest people you're gonna meet. But on the court, I am a menace. It's two completely different people.

• 50:30Ryan Clark?

  I have told people about meeting you. And, you know, I am one of those people that like, once I know you, you don't get to say bad things about people I like. Right? And I have to, I also feel responsible to go, okay, I know him. If they say your name, hey, I met him. Now you can say whatever you want. But I need you to know that this is the person I know personally. So you gotta be very careful about what you say, because I feel like I could say whatever to you in their defense. Another thing that you remind me of, I was having this conversation last night, about being able to process my feelings.

• 51:12Ryan Clark?

  I don't feel that people get to affect me and live their lives like they haven't. Right? You don't get to have, or I don't have to process something without you having to process that I've been impacted.

• 51:28Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:28Ryan Clark?

  And so, a lot of times, you talked about like, your conscience and...

• 51:32Speaker 04

  Conscience of, oh, my conscience.

• 51:34Ryan Clark?

  Over consequence.

• 51:34Speaker 04

  Over consequence.

• 51:35Ryan Clark?

  Right. My thing is always, if I get it out, no matter what happens afterwards, I'm comfortable with that, because now I don't have to, I can look myself in the eye and say, okay, I respect the way I handled this situation. And I think that's a process to learn how to deal with those things. I'm about to do something that I do very often on this show, Draymond. And I haven't done it in a while. I'm gonna cut the room. Right, and so when I cut the room, this is when only conversations people with championships can have, professional championships. So, right now it's just, you know, us talking, because these two has never been one.

• 52:16Speaker 04

  8th grade, South Georgia Gatorade champion.

• 52:22Ryan Clark?

  But I say that, I say that though, man. Once you win a ring and a championship, everything else feels like a failure. Playing Toronto and getting there and not winning it, that's a failure. Playing the Cleveland Cavaliers and being up 3-1 and losing, that's a failure. To many other people, that's a great success, but when you feel what it feels like to have the trophy, everything else is just a part of the journey on the way to a destination that's ultimately important. Recently, LeBron James spoke about ring culture, and how, in summarizing,

• 53:04Ryan Clark?

  like, it doesn't define like the individual's greatness. I disagree with that. I think part of being great is being great in the most important moments that allow your individual talents to elevate a team. How do you see LeBron's comments, but also, how do you feel about ring culture and the value that we put on that as it pertains to individual teams and players?

• 53:34Speaker 04

  So, I understood what Bron was trying to say. I think, I do think, and I get the point, I don't think he did a good job of explaining it. And so, when you are a champion, easy for you to say, "Yo, it don't matter, because I'm a champion." Like, but what Bron was trying to say, at least what I think he was trying to say, you got people that haven't done this, and they use that to dumb down the greatness of other guys that haven't necessarily done it. Chris Paul is a winner. I tell people all the time, Chris Paul ain't never won a championship, Chris Paul is a winner.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  Never fortunate enough to get quite, quite get over the hump, for whatever reason, whether that was his individual ability, but that don't mean he ain't great. And so I understand what Bron was saying because it's like, well, if you didn't, in this, in this media culture that we live in today, it's like, well, he ain't got a ring, so I could just blah, blah, blah. I could just crush this guy. And that's what Bron was getting at. It's like, don't, don't, don't take away these guys greatness because they didn't get a ring and then you just start speaking on the ring. But you've never, like, for a lot of people, they never even played at this level. And so, and, and they

• 54:59Speaker 04

  use that to tag these guys. But you don't know how hard it is to win a championship. And so you start talking about these guys that didn't win, but you don't know how hard it is to win a championship. So when they say ring culture and kind of use it as this, from, it's negative connotation, what Bron is saying, I'm watching these people say, this guy ain't great, that guy ain't great, this guy ain't great, because they didn't win a ring, they still great. And so what it boils down to for me is, I get what he

• 55:37Speaker 04

  was saying, because those guys he named, he named a few names. To me, they are still great. Yes, they didn't win a ring, but I know there's so much more that has to go right to win that ring. And you don't have a clue. And you gonna crush this guy, and you don't know what it takes. You don't know all the things that need to go right to win a ring. That shit is hard. It's very, very, very hard. You speak on ring culture. It's worked against Kevin Durant in the opposite way. It's so hard to win a ring. Our teams

• 56:16Speaker 04

  made it look so easy that people say, Kevin Durant just went over there and walked to a ring. Man, without Kevin Durant, I don't know if we was gonna win another championship. We didn't walk, he didn't come and walk to a ring. We just got that good and made it look that easy. And so then you, this dude got the two rings and they still use it against him.

• 56:42Speaker 04

  That's the problem with ring culture. That's what LeBron was getting.

• 56:47Fred Taylor?

  But what happens when you have somebody who is as great as Chuck? That has bought into, right? I have no rings. I'm a Hall of Famer, but I can only sit at this table and not over there with the likes of That's true. The Birds, the Magics, the Jordans. Like when those comments come out where he totally disagrees with LeBron's sentiment? And this is what he's bought into after all these years? Even Shaq teases him all the time, man, you ain't got no ring Chuck. You shouldn't even be in this conversation. Kind of like cutting off the room. When we all have gone through the gauntlet to try and get there. And as great as I was in Jacksonville, and I'm just throwing it. Hell, yeah. Hey, I'm ringless, but I don't feel that way.

• 57:32Fred Taylor?

  Like I wouldn't have that same mindset as Chuck personally. But how do you feel about when those type of comments are kind of included?

• 57:40Speaker 04

  Me and Shaq got our little four ring handshake at the desk. It's fun picking on Chuck at the desk. I'm so honored I get the opportunity to work with those guys, man.

• 57:49Fred Taylor?

  The best show on TV.

• 57:51Speaker 04

  It's like, it's one of the honors of my life that I get to sit up there with those guys, man. But I think Chuck's able to accept it and embrace it like that because he became so great at something else. So he didn't win a championship. He's arguably the greatest sports voice we've ever seen. With what he can do with a microphone and move a world. Pow, and it come like that. He, like I've been honored to be able to work with him and watch him work. And it's just like boom, boom, boom. He's arguably one of the great sports voices we've ever seen.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Key Cog and one of the greatest, probably the greatest sports show we have ever seen. And so I think due to that, Emmy after Emmy after Emmy, I think due to that, he's able to say, "Fuck it. Yep, I ain't winning and look at me now." And so I think it's different for Chuck because of that.

• 58:52Fred Taylor?

  What about just his greatness? Because Chuck, like you can't argue, you know, what he did on that court. What about that part of it? Because he was better than a lot of these guys that kind of move around like, all right, let's say Robert Ori for example, and I don't want Robert to catch a stray, but he got six of them.

• 59:10Ryan Clark?

  Also, too, Freddie T, I think, and this is just my opinion, obviously you know better than me, like when we talk about football, this conversation, it's in my opinion, the ring conversation only comes into play once you are considered an all-time great, right? We, we don't talk about players who are unimportant and the amount of rings they have. Most of the times when we're speaking on ringless people, it's because they're Hall of Famers. And a lot of them, first ballot Hall of Famer. And what happens is when we're starting to tier

• 59:53Ryan Clark?

  the greatest of the greats, the thing we think about is, what moment do I remember that he was a part of or that he orchestrated that got himself and his team a ring? I think that's where it comes into play is when we're saying, hey, Stephen Curry is beyond a shadow of a doubt, the greatest shooter that has ever lived. And on top of that, look what that got him. How do you quantify that? Or how do you feel about that statement that, yeah, we've acknowledged that you're great because we're talking about how many rings you have?

• 1:00:29Speaker 04

  It's definitely validated. Like, it's definitely a validation. Like when I walk in the room, I walk to the table, hey, don't get it twisted, me being a four-time champ, you gonna feel that. Right? And I feel like some validation from that.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  When it comes to basketball, when it comes to, when I walk in a room, like, let's face it, some rooms I walk into, I am just always gonna be Draymond, the basketball player. When I walk in that room and I know I'm walking in as Draymond, a basketball player, the confidence that I have is as if I'm walking through there like this. Like, that's the validation that I feel walking into that room as a basketball player. So, it, it, it is a validation, and as your greatness grows, more happens. So, for instance, Steph, like, we all, we all can agree that he been doing it at a NBL level for a while now. But we all can also agree, 2022 put him in a different stratosphere. MVP?

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  When it was like, oh, he put them on his back, and he had that moment that uplifted, it, it put him in a different stratosphere. So, it's a double-edged sword, man, like, it, it's unfortunate for some guys that it didn't quite work out, and whatever could've went wrong, like, sometimes you only get one chance. If OKC, we're obviously filming this before game seven, if OKC don't win this championship, I don't think they'll ever win one. Because you only get, you have a, you have an opportunity, and this is what, back to Bron's point, people don't understand when you ain't been through it, you have an opportunity. If you don't kick the door in, kick the window in when you got the opportunity,

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  you may never get the opportunity again. Team ain't gonna look the same next year. Salary cap stuff start happening, extensions start happening, you gotta get rid of this guy, you gotta get rid of that guy. And so, when you talk, it's a, it's a double-edged sword because, yes, you start talking about people's greatness, lessening their greatness due to not having a ring, but on the flip side, yes, it does validate. And the thing that we all don't like is people take it and they try to stab this guy that didn't get it. And I know, yes, you could've, you played 13 years, you played 13 years, right?

• 1:02:53Channing Crowder?

  No, I played six.

• 1:02:54Speaker 04

  Okay, you played six.

• 1:02:55Channing Crowder?

  I gotta bother that.

• 1:02:57Speaker 04

  Six, 13, 13, right, champion?

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  But what I know as someone who's won it four times is I know I could see where it could have went wrong. Because it only take just one time, like your chance may have been that one time. And I see people with his hamstring.

• 1:03:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  You didn't kick the door down when you had to kick, and it's just way harder. And so I know that in winning it. And that's the problem that I be having when people get up there and they start throwing the ring around and stabbing. Because I know that they may have, they had that one opportunity and they didn't kick the door down. And that's why they weren't able to get one. And so that's where, that's where I struggle with it a bit. And I'm able to dish out the respect to the guys who didn't necessarily win. I can still respect you for what you are.

• 1:03:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:03:54Speaker 04

  But on the flip side, I think it also took me to go through it over and over again and learn and understand more and more about it. And know what goes into it. And a lot, and most people just don't know what go into it.

• 1:04:07Ryan Clark?

  Do you know your mother tweeted me before?

• 1:04:09Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:04:10Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 1:04:12Ryan Clark?

  I can't remember what playoff series it was, but you were actually playing really well. And you missed a dunk. And I think like you got your shot blocked or something. And I just tweeted, I was like, honestly, I was like, those plays to me are the fascinating thing about Draymond Green. I was like, he is not the most athletic. I was like, but look at all the stuff he's done. And I think all she read was like the fact that I mentioned that you got a shot blocked or missed a dunk. And she was like, well, what about the ones that can do all that? I was like, male? Because the one thing, I was like, I am not finna beef. I was like, I need to be very clear. This was a compliment. I was like, I am not trying to beef.

• 1:04:58Ryan Clark?

  But I, I just, I looked at that and I thought, no matter how famous, how successful.

• 1:05:05Ryan Clark?

  That's still her baby.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:08Ryan Clark?

  Right, and it made me think about it when you were talking about the ring codger and how people use these things to criticize and to stab. You mentioned something that touched me earlier. I say a lot of stuff, right? And I get a lot of criticism, backlash, and I'm built for it.

• 1:05:25Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:26Ryan Clark?

  Right? I recently went through something where it affected my entire, my entire family. I got cousins defending me. I got people calling me. It was bad in my house. And it was the first time I looked at myself and I said, wait, when I speak or when I have my actions affect everyone else? You said it started to affect your home and the people around you. As somebody who's always been comfortable in being Draymond Green, how difficult was it to handle your actions affecting all of the people you love?

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  Man, yeah, my mom, she, she's, I had to help her out with Twitter. She, she go crazy. And by the way, now I am actually her baby. Like, I'm the youngest. So, it's a different thing there. And she, my momma ride to, to last end for me, you know, and, and I love her and I appreciate her. It started affecting, my mom don't watch games anymore. She check the box score. It, it, it brings her anxiety at this point in my career. Because she like, yo, just be done. Like, it's cool, you did it. It's, it's, it's, you passed it. Like, just be done, move on.

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  And I'm like, no, I got more to give. So she can't watch no more. People attacking my wife because I got into it with somebody on the court. She gotta cut her comments off. People telling her, I know you getting beat at home, all this stuff. And it's just like, and I saw the weight that it was putting on her. Like, I, I, I could see it.

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  Her carrying it. And she gonna ride, so she riding, but I am someone who in my life, like if I'm in your life, I take on your shit. I'ma be right there, I'ma help you through the shit. I take on a bunch of shit for a lot of people. My shoulder's big enough for that, I'm cut for that, that's who I am. Very rarely am I gonna let you take on my shit. I am the guy who take on the shit. I take on the shit for people. People around me, people close to me, I take on the shit. When I realized that damn, I'm causing them shit and I ain't able to take it home because I caused it, it was crushing me. Because I don't put my shit on nobody. I take my shit on the chin.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  And I take your shit, your shit, and your shit on too. I'ma be there for you like that. So that was, uh, that was another reason I wanted to be done. Because now, you know, my kids going to school, my kids coming home like, daddy, they said you did this, or, and I'm like, damn. And I worked my whole life so that these kids can have the best, so that they don't have to experience what I experienced. Like I, like I go to work, I work my ass off so that I can provide something for them that was never provided for me. And I'm affecting them negatively. It's killing me.

• 1:08:47Speaker 04

  Because I am that guy, like, I'm the guy to make it better for you. I'm the guy to take on the shit, like, man, you move over, I got the shit. Move out the way. All right, now it's done, go ahead. Like, I, I took on that shit for you. And so, going through that with them, and knowing my actions caused it, it was crushing me. Because I can't, I, I, I almost need to save them from me now. And that's a totally different space than I've ever been in. I'll come save you from anybody. How can I save you from myself? Now I gotta save you from me.

• 1:09:27Speaker 04

  And I tried to run like I'm done with it. Because that's the only thing I can think of how I could save it. How I could save them from me. So I'm like, oh, I need to be done or retire. Because I can't, I can't. I gotta be there to like, get you through the shit. And if I'm causing this shit, how do I get you through it?

• 1:09:49Ryan Clark?

  My wife was attacked because of me. And the way it affected my kids, the way it affected her. And honestly, the pressure it puts on you to fix it when you are the problem. And when it's you. And, you know, we always say, I'll do anything for family. I'll die for my family. I'll kill for my family. What happens when you're the op? You know, and dealing with that, man.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  It's a tough space to go through.

• 1:10:20Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you could retire. Like you just said it. Your mama ass, I'm sure your wife ass, what's? Why don't retire? You've done everything. Why not retire? Bro, you got more to give? That ain't no real answer. That's a bullshit answer.

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  Why not retire? Because I still love to compete. And where else can I find that level of competition?

• 1:10:42Channing Crowder?

  Go fishing.

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  But I can't.

• 1:10:46Channing Crowder?

  Play golf.

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  I suck at that, so I don't do it. Because I can't compete at the level I want to compete at in golf. Right, and in basketball, I could, I can compete at the highest level. And that's what drives me. It's like, I still love to compete. I love walking in that arena, shutting you up, saying everything I gotta say to y'all crowd, and walking out in Houston like, ha! Told y'all we was gonna beat y'all again. Y'all are that team. Right, like, I still get such a drive, like such a rush. Out of that, like, I love, I absolutely love the competition. And it's the only reason why I still do it.

• 1:11:34Fred Taylor?

  And that's the only reason you need, and that's the first reason we did it in the first place. But from still in the bag of chips at the age of three, to lead, yeah, taken, to leading Saginaw High to back-to-back state champs, what, 53 and 2. Big Ten Player of the Year, having your jersey retired by Michigan State. Four championships later, four-time NBA All-Star. Defensive Player of the Year, led the league in steals. To about to be a hell of a broadcaster at some point soon. Great husband, friend. And between all of that, what would you consider to be your biggest pivot in life?

• 1:12:17Fred Taylor?

  That's that one moment you can look back on and say, without this happening to me or for me, I wouldn't be who I am today.

• 1:12:26Speaker 04

  I think in life, we're always reinventing ourselves. That's actually why I love y'all's show and the name, how y'all leaned into it. It's because I think in life, you always reinvent yourself. And so there are multiple pivots. And I can point to several of them at different times in my life, that if I didn't make that pivot, it could all ended there, or blah, blah, blah. In high school, I got caught cheating on the test. I had an exam. I was a very good student. My mom ain't play no dumb, like, you ain't gonna live in this house and be dumb. And I was just being lazy.

• 1:13:09Speaker 04

  Our teacher had, gave us this study guide, and the study guide had a lot of the same questions on the test. So I took the study guide into the, to the exam, put it under my paper, and I just was fucking cheating.

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  I got to like, the last two questions of the exam, I'm sure I would have, I'm also not dumb. So I wouldn't have got 100%, but I think I got like 47 out of 50 questions right. Like, I ain't gonna make it two obvious. And I got to like, two more questions left on the exam. And the teachers just came and took the papers. And I got a D minus in the class. Because the way our grading system works, you got three marking periods and a final exam, and they're all 25%. So on 25% of the grade, I got zero. Yeah. So which means, without the 25%,

• 1:14:10Speaker 04

  just basic math, I had like 64%.

• 1:14:16Speaker 04

  So if you add my other 25%, I'm at an A.

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  My mom, Michigan State was my dream school. Tom Izzo had an Izzo shootout at Michigan State, the team camp. And then we was playing AAU, going to big tournaments. I was on the great AAU team by this point. And she, uh, she stopped me from playing that summer. I couldn't go to team camp.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  And people from my city was like coming to the door. Marshall Thomas, the godfather, even talked to my mom. And she was like, "That's cool. He ain't going. Y'all can send whoever y'all want over here. Because if he end up dumb and failing, y'all gonna move on to the next kid, and he just gonna be back in this house. So he ain't going."

• 1:15:05Speaker 04

  It taught me accountability. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, "Oh, you gotta put the work in. You gotta be accountable." And so when I go back to that moment in life, that was ninth grade. That's what got me to Michigan State. You know what I'm saying? It's that moment right there that got me to Michigan State, which is one of the best things that ever happened to me. So if I point to anything and I go, now, the reinvention of me, the man, there's different pivots.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  But that one is what got me out of Saginaw, Michigan, which laid the stage for everything else and everything I've become. It's making it out of that city. I love that city. So don't get me wrong, like, but.

• 1:15:51Speaker 04

  I couldn't stay there and be great. You know what I'm saying? And so that set the table for me to make it out of that city. And ultimately allowed me to change my family life for generations. You know what I'm saying? Like, show us a life that we could have never imagined. It was that one moment that if I gotta go to one, because that set the stage for everything else. Yeah.

• 1:16:15Ryan Clark?

  I want to say this, man. I've been, so I've been trying to get this done forever. You know that. I know how valuable your time is, Dre, man. So appreciate you, dog. And this, you have expectations, right? Because we're human. And I had an expectation that this show was going to be really amazing. You 100% exceeded that, bro.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:16:32Ryan Clark?

  Just very grateful for you, man. It's been amazing to watch you grow as a man. You accomplish things as a player. You know, I was on TV while I played as well. Man, you're better than that, bro. I can't wait to see what you do going forward. But unlike Channing, man, I believe you should keep playing for a little bit longer.

• 1:16:49Channing Crowder?

  Ain't that shit up, man? We're gonna enjoy your baby.

• 1:16:52Speaker 04

  I appreciate it.

• 1:16:55Ryan Clark?

  Put your hands up.