Episode 501: Alejandra Maria Gallo: Dating Strategy, Emotional Regulation, and Taking Your Power Back

You can be successful, confident, and unstoppable in business: and still lose your edge when it comes to love. In this episode of Habits & Hustle, I sit down with Alejandra Maria, a dating strategist and viral creator who helps ambitious women stop chasing and start leading with self-respect. We talk about what it really means to have emotional discipline, the ability to pause before reacting, to stay calm instead of proving your worth, and to walk away instead of negotiating for respect. Alejandra breaks down how "no contact" can be a power move, not a game, and why emotional diversification is the secret to staying grounded when everything feels personal. If you're the kind of woman who thrives under pressure but keeps losing your balance in relationships, this one's for you. We unpack how to bring the same clarity and control you have in business into your emotional life, without losing your softness or your power. Alejandra Maria has built a global audience of nearly a million women with her unapologetic, emotionally intelligent take on modern dating. Her insights have been featured in Newsweek, Girlboss, and more. And she's redefining what it means to be "high value" in love and life. What We Discuss: (04:10) Why high-achieving women often lose power in love (06:05) The difference between emotional discipline and emotional suppression (08:42) "You can't outwork emotional chaos": bringing business mindset into dating (12:30) How "no contact" became the most powerful boundary you can set (18:20) Emotional diversification: spreading your energy beyond one relationship (25:14) Why confidence isn't control, it's composure (33:47) The signs you're over-functioning in relationships (42:30) How to stop chasing and start being chosen (51:12) The mindset shift from proving your worth to holding your power (58:40) How to regulate emotions like you train your body: consistency over chaos …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com http://airdoctorpro.com/ and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www http://www/.magicmind.com http://magicmind.com//jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link https://www.livemomentous.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorDUIZz3psr1Qsq_n1yE8_6JTq_QUFabOO9lH65HDEXCIoJOPLj and use code Jen for 20% off Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Amp fit is the perfect balance of tech and training, designed for people who do it all and still want to feel strong doing it. Check it out at joinamp.com/jen https://www.joinamp.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=in-stream&utm_campaign=jen Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen https://www.instagram.com/therealjencohen/ Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Alejandra Maria: Instagram: @anxiouslyalej https://www.instagram.com/anxiouslyalej/ TikTok: @anxiouslyalej https://www.tiktok.com/@anxiouslyalej Youtube: @anxiouslyalej https://www.youtube.com/@anxiouslyalej

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:06Jen Cohen?

  Guys, women, this is, this is for, I think it's for everybody, but women, you're gonna thank me for this podcast. I really think so. We have a young woman. Her name is Alejandra Maria. She is a dating strategist. How would you describe yourself? It's more than just a dating strategist.

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say strategist is the perfect word.

• 0:26Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, I think so. Cause what you're really, what like, so this is how it happened. Here I am doom scrolling on TikTok and one of Alejandra's videos came up and I was, I just thought that you, I just thought you were so good in terms of like cutting through the crap and like getting to like the meat of the matter. And really breaking down relationships, date, modern dating, psychology, emotional dysfunction, regularity. So well that I had to reach out to you and coincidentally you were coming to LA.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02Jen Cohen?

  So this was like meant to be.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was meant to be.

• 1:05Jen Cohen?

  I'm so glad. Also, she's Canadian. So this is even more of a thing.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Even better.

• 1:09Jen Cohen?

  Even better, right? Cause I love, of course, I, how do you not love a Canadian? Like, right? We're Canadian. So thank you again for coming on the show. I love that you're here. What we do first, before we do anything is we take a healthy performance shot. These are Magic Minds. They're delicious. And it keeps my guest on point and very, very focused. And they taste, like I said, very good. And they have all sorts of yummy ingredients. And I know that you're an ultra marathoner. So I thought of all the people.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  It's gonna be perfect.

• 1:38Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, take it. I already had three today. I don't know if I should have anymore. It's good, right?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  This is really good.

• 1:45Jen Cohen?

  I know.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  I was expecting it to have like a sharp taste, but it's like very, wow.

• 1:49Jen Cohen?

  I know. Cause most, most of these shots are like terrible, but this one's actually very good. I'm not gonna do mine, cause I do like fly off the walls if I have more than four a day.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Where do you get these?

• 2:01Jen Cohen?

  You can buy them actually at, um, I see them everywhere now. You can buy them online, but you can also buy them at Air One in LA. I don't know if they come.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:08Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  I've heard of that place.

• 2:10Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, exactly. Air One's a whole thing. Okay, right, because you're Canadian. You can get them at Air One. I don't know if they have them at Whole Foods.

• 2:18Jen Cohen?

  You can buy them online. Go to magicmind.com. And that's actually not even me being an ad. Like, this wasn't supposed to be an ad ad, but that was, like, it's actually, these are legit. Like, everyone who has them, like, really loves them and ends up, like, wanting to, like, buy them when they are before your workout or before they do anything kind of high performance-wise. So, anyway, with that being said, let's start, because I have a lot, a lot, a lot of questions for you.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 2:44Jen Cohen?

  All right. So, let me, the first thing is, when you call yourself a dating strategist, how is that different than being like a dating coach?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  I would say when you're working with a dating coach, that's someone that's working alongside you, like, through the ups, the downs, holding your hand. I think for me, I just want to cut through the BS.

• 3:03Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Come to me with your problems. Let's create a plan, and then you work the plan. And if we need to talk after that, let's talk after that. But I think it's all about building the confidence in yourself so you can feel comfortable in the decisions that you're making.

• 3:18Jen Cohen?

  Well, you know, it's interesting, like, yeah, like, I, I have a little bit of an issue with sometimes therapy, because I find that you can, people can go to therapy for years on end and, and just talk and ruminate over the same problems and talk about the same problem over and over and over again and not really get anywhere. And so, I guess what I like about, like, that whole approach that you just said is that you are, there's like, it's kind of like you're tackling the issue with solu-, it's like a very solution-based, action-oriented type of program, where it's like, okay, here's the issue. This is what you're supposed to do. If you don't want to do it, then, you know, I'm not for you, right? Like, you want to kind of like get to the meat of the matter and get people a result.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:02Jen Cohen?

  As opposed to just going like evergreen forever.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I think sometimes we can get stuck and just talking about the same problem over and over and over again. And sure, I think that there is some benefit to talking about it, but if you're not gonna take action on what you want, then you're constantly gonna be stuck in like this victim's mentality.

• 4:23Jen Cohen?

  Yes.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  And you're constantly just repeating your, your mistakes and so.

• 4:27Jen Cohen?

  So you're, you focus, if I'm not mistaken, like tell me if I'm wrong, but you focus on women, first of all.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 4:34Jen Cohen?

  And, and also like highly successful women.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  High achieving, high performing women, yes.

• 4:39Jen Cohen?

  Yes. Now, what made you kind of really kind of target and skew to high performance women, ambitious women, successful women? And not just overall, just women as a whole?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I think that.

• 4:53Jen Cohen?

  Or women, like, you know, women as a whole.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  I think it's important to know who your target audience is because sometimes if you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody.

• 5:01Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  And I think before I was doing this, I was working in the tech industry and, you know, all of my girlfriends were having like the same problems and they were coming to me for advice. And so that's what I felt comfortable, you know, talking about, like, um, working with.

• 5:16Jen Cohen?

  So how did you kind of evolve yourself into being a dating strategist for high achievers or high achieving women? Like what, were you one of them? And you were having issues in relationships or kind of like, give me your, give me the kind of the origin story of how you started this whole thing?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I will say that self-development has always been a really big part of my life. My mom was always big in that. And I think, you know, growing up, I just noticed how relationships can cause people so much pain, you know, regardless of what your upbringing is. And so it always fascinated me. And then, uh, it was when I called off my engagement, uh, about two years ago that I decided, you know, this is something that I've always wanted to do. And I was starting over and so I felt like I had nothing to lose. And so I might as well like try for, you know, the life that I wanted. And so, yeah, I started to really focus on, you know, dating psychology and creating content. And I started posting content in January of last year.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  And since then, I've been able to grow an audience of over eight hundred and fifty thousand people worldwide.

• 6:20Jen Cohen?

  It's amazing. Well, because I think when people have good content that cuts through the BS like you do, people find it, right?

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:28Jen Cohen?

  I think we're in a, we're in a world right now digitally that, you know, a lot of people are just meteors. Like they do the same thing. Everyone's kind of saying the same thing, doing the same thing. So the ones who actually stick out are the ones who have a point of view or a perspective that's usually accurate, but people don't want to know, don't want to like admit.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Oh, it's polarizing.

• 6:48Jen Cohen?

  Right. It's very polarizing.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Very polarizing.

• 6:50Jen Cohen?

  Because a lot of people find your content to be manipulative, like very manipulating or manipulative. I don't actually see it that way. I see it as being like actually like very raw and honest of what works and what doesn't work. We're going to get into that in like a moment. But I have one other question before we start, which is, were you always the person, like you kind of mentioned it earlier, like the people kind of came to when they had like relationship problems or they needed advice on dating? Like, were you always that girl?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Yes, I would always say that I was, I'm not going to be the friend that celebrates you, you know, throwing your life away and, you know, just celebrating mediocre behavior. Like if you come to me with a problem, I'm gonna say what I think.

• 7:37Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  And so I'm not going to be the friend that you come to to cry with and, you know, eat bonbons with and then you go and do the same thing over again.

• 7:44Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  That's just, that's just not happening.

• 7:47Jen Cohen?

  You and me would be like BFFs if we lived closer, I think, because we have a very similar ideology of what works and what doesn't. But, okay, because one of the things that you really talk about, which really hit for me, which I say all the time, is this idea, and you just phrased it better, which is emotional diversification.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:06Jen Cohen?

  Because I think, can we like talk about this?

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 8:09Jen Cohen?

  Because I think that is so.

• 8:13Jen Cohen?

  Clever, and I think the way you've you put it together for women is really important. And I think that we should like to spend some time on it.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 8:22Jen Cohen?

  So just why don't you kind of just explain to all of us, what what do you mean when you say emotional diversification?

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:31Jen Cohen?

  And how can we apply this to our life?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Okay, so the analogy I like to give is, in the same way, a financially independent millionaire has several sources of income, you're never too pressed if one of those income sources dries up. But I find that oftentimes in relationships, you know, you get yourself into trouble if your partner is your only source of emotional validation, reassurance, and fulfillment. You want them to be your best friend, your boyfriend, your confidant, your everything. And I think that can be really dangerous because we know not to do that financially. If you give someone the power to feed you, you also give them the power to starve you. And so I think that when you're going to be in a long term relationship, it actually works for the polarity of the relationship to have your own thing.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  I think that is the most attractive thing a person can have. It's a very full life that you're not easily pulled away from, like you're very engaged in what you're doing.

• 9:27Jen Cohen?

  So, because let me just make sure I I my audience and I understand what you're saying, which is when you put all your eggs in one basket and that basket so happens to up and leave, or something happens and disappears, you're really left with zero, right? It becomes a zero sum game. However, if you diversify and put a little bit in this basket, a little bit in that basket, you know, when something may go awry, right? It's not so devastating, right? And I think the I think this is why I think a lot of people get into trouble, right? When women rely on a man for their for basically for money, right? Like, which is a big one.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Super dangerous.

• 10:09Jen Cohen?

  How many people do you know, I know a million, who are still in relationships or toxic marriages that are not very fulfilling because they are afraid to leave just because they are unable to, they feel, make make money on their own, right? And or because your your whole life becomes wrapped up in the other person that you don't even you're not your whole identity is now. You don't even have one, right?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:36Jen Cohen?

  So you're saying then it's very important to make sure that you have other things to do. So give us some, give us an example of like a framework of how somebody can start doing that if they haven't done it already. You know, of course, the financial piece is the big ones. We can talk about that a little bit, but other ways we can kind of emotionally diversify.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  I think having a strong community. I think oftentimes, you know, when, you know, my high performing clients come to me, they'll say, you know, I don't have a lot of friends, you know, I go to work, I go to the gym and that's it. And so I think being able to connect with other women, you know, running clubs are huge. Just finding a way to really feed your body, but then at the same time feeding your mind, like learning new things, not just constantly consuming content. I think also thinking back to your childhood and thinking about the things that you enjoyed. When you went out to play for me, I would make YouTube videos with my sister. We made music videos and it was so fun, but I think that was kind of helping me figure out what I wanted to do later in life because it never really felt like work.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  And so for me, creating content always felt really natural. I think also being able to just know what you want out of life, I think.

• 11:53Jen Cohen?

  So if you see a lot of high performing, high achieving, very successful women, you know, usually you would think that that, that would mean that they didn't, they, they have emotionally diversified because they do have their own career, right? They do make their own money.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:11Jen Cohen?

  Where do you find that they do lack? Is it mostly on this other social end? Either they have work and then they have maybe a relationship, but then they have no other outlet? Is that what you're noticing?

• 12:22Speaker 02

  I think they don't know how to slow down and be still with their thoughts. And it will reflect in their relationship. So for example, let's say they start going out with someone they really like them. Obviously you're going to notice that there's going to be a gap. And either, you know, the person that you're dating can fill that gap, you know, that emotional space. But oftentimes my clients, they, they'll just think to themselves, okay, I see this gap. Let me just go and fill it. Let me take that initiative. Let me, you know, show them how much I care. Let me plan all these dates, but then they end up in a dynamic, they end up resenting where they are doing everything and their partner is doing nothing. And they feel almost like a mother. And their partner is their child.

• 13:04Jen Cohen?

  Right. Well, I think that you talk about that a lot, too. I feel that happens with anybody who's competent, right? The person who is typically the more competent one, the more successful one, ends up kind of like running the show a little bit. And what you're saying is no matter how competent or how successful the woman is, she should never take that role of a kind of like being the one who is planning everything, doing everything.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:33Jen Cohen?

  Because then it does create this like weird like power dynamic that's very unattractive.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you never end up actually knowing if your partner is with you out of convenience or if they actually want to be with you.

• 13:48Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Because it's easy to be with someone when they're doing everything for you, like they're making your life so easy. But what about when things are inconvenient? I think it's really easy to find someone that you can have a good time with, with enough alcohol, you can have a good time with pretty much anybody.

• 14:01Jen Cohen?

  Right, right, right.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  But how about somebody you can have a bad time with? Someone that is going to be there for you when it's inconvenient?

• 14:08Jen Cohen?

  But I find like what you just said, like the whole, you know, be the, like, so many women fall into this trap where they become eventually the mother to their boyfriend or husband or whatever their partner, which is such a turn off on both ends, right? Like, it's a turn off for the woman and it's a turn off for the guy, like, the guy loses interest, right? There's no, because that's not, it's not like a sexy thing. But it's not just, that doesn't actually, I don't see that happening so often only with like high achiever women. I see that across the board.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Jen Cohen?

  Right? Like, if you go on to social media, that's like, that's like all the memes, right? Like, oh, I gotta pick out his pants for him, I gotta like make his dinner.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Remind him to take his vitamins.

• 14:52Jen Cohen?

  Remind him to, right, to flush the toilet. Like, it's like, it's also like what society's kind of like joked about for so long that these, that women end up in this, in this motherly role. And, you know. It it kind of is like what happens like it just morphs into it. How does, what would you tell people like, how do they stop doing that catching themselves in that act like? Why does that happen anyway? Because typically, I think what normally starts is like a lot of times, maybe the man was the one who was like taking the initiative. But there are some, somewhere along the lines, the role got reversed.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:33Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then she started to take over. And because that's what she's done in every other area of her life, you know, when it comes to, you know, building the career, building the finances, like building the body, you know, just work harder. But when you do that in your relationship, um, I think that's where men and women fundamentally differ. A woman could go out on a date with a man and she might not let him pay because she might think to herself, I don't want him to expect anything. But if you do the most for a man, he's not sitting there thinking, you know, she's going to expect more from me. I better pick up the pace. He's thinking if she's doing this for me, then I must deserve it. And so you think that you're building up his admiration when really you're building up his entitlement.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  And so the more you forgive, the more you bend, he thinks, wow, I'm king of the castle. And so I think it's just important to to know that it's okay to say that men and women are different. And knowing that, you know, you can, you know, complain about it, but ultimately the next three months are going to look a lot like the last three months unless you decide to do something different. And so I think that's where strategy is really important. And people say, oh, well, that's just playing games, but there's a strategy to everything you do in life. There's a strategy when you want to, you know, make a recipe, when you want to go somewhere, when you want to, yeah, build muscle.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  And so the same goes for dating, but I think that's where I think people are getting a bit stuck.

• 17:00Jen Cohen?

  I totally agree with everything you're saying. I also find there's a reason why the Like, there's like a whole world out there and books are read, like are written about it and people talk about it that men do prefer bitches versus these nice girls because it keeps the guy on their toes a little bit, right? If you just acquiesce and do everything and say they're right, like, there's like, there's something, most men, again, this is not like, I'm not sweeping everybody with the same brush, but like, most men do like that hunter kind, that hunt mentality, that animalistic thing.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:36Jen Cohen?

  And if you're, if you're always just easy prey.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:39Jen Cohen?

  They will lose interest.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:42Jen Cohen?

  And or think that like, you're like, easy to kind of like, you know, you're easy. So they'll like, find other things to kind of, to, to, to, to kind of like, challenge themselves on, as opposed to challenging themselves onto you.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:57Jen Cohen?

  I don't find that to be strategic. I just think that's just like, obvious.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, common sense is not always common.

• 18:04Jen Cohen?

  So common, you're a Canadian girl, because I, it's a Canadian thing. So can you give women who may be listening to this podcast, a couple of strategies where they can start really kind of taking that into heart, to talk, to heart, where they can start doing tomorrow?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Okay, so let's start in the beginning stages of dating.

• 18:27Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  I think a common question clients ask me is, what do I say when he asks me what I'm looking for? You would not give away the PIN to your bank account. You would not, you have to hold your cards close. Because sometimes when you are very straightforward, that might get you far in terms of business. But in relationships, sometimes that can invite a performance, not someone, you know, showing up authentically. I think people are not going to tell you who they are, they're going to show you who you are. So it's, it's just important to try to have a good time and see what you learn along the way. But sometimes when you ask these very pointed questions in the beginning, you're, you're not actually going to get

• 19:11Speaker 02

  the answer that you want, because who is going to say to you, actually, I'm a terrible person? You know, I'm a serial cheater, I lied to my family, I, I'm in loads of debt. Like, nobody's going to tell you that, but you're going to be able to see their habits. And so if you can just, yeah, just try to get to know people and stay true to yourself. I think women already know exactly what to do. Because they do it with with men that they don't like, you know? If a if a guy approaches her and she like turns him away, she's okay with enforcing those boundaries. But the moment you start to like somebody, it's like those boundaries go away. Because how often have you been in a situation where you say, I don't usually do this? And then you go and you do the thing that you don't usually do. And so it's just important to remember that

• 19:56Speaker 02

  people are gonna treat you the way you treat yourself. And so it's not that, you know, he he lost interest because you you slept with him too early. It's he lost interest because you said that, you know what, this is really important to you. And then you you didn't stay true to that. And so it's being able to stick to your word. If you're gonna state a boundary, I want you to expect them to test it. Because it's almost like in the grocery store with a child. When you tell your child, don't touch that candy bar. And then what are they gonna do? They're gonna go and test that. And so discovery is always gonna be more impactful than disclosure. Let people discover your boundaries. So for example, if you're going out on dates

• 20:40Speaker 02

  and you notice that, you know, he's stopped planning because he kind of always expects me to be available. And so now I say no to my friends, even though he doesn't, you know, create those plans. Go hang out with your friends and let him see, oh, you know, when I don't plan, actually, she's not available. Let him feel those consequences instead of, you know, talking.

• 21:00Jen Cohen?

  Right. Instead of just saying, or saying, so instead of just saying like, I don't appreciate when you don't make plans, blah, blah, blah. Like, see how he behaves and then act accordingly.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:11Jen Cohen?

  So how would you tell people to act then? Would because would you say then, like, let's say if like in the beginning stages or even like later on, are you saying not like not to be too available when they ask you out? Are you saying, don't reply to every text message? Are you, what are your, do you have like some rules that women should be?

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Number one is show, don't tell. Show don't tell.

• 21:33Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Um, don't argue with someone that is not your boyfriend. Like, why are you spending so much energy? Like, this is just someone that you might want to get to know. You know, you wouldn't argue with a stranger in the street. And so why are you arguing with someone who's truly not even your boyfriend? I think also, um, a man that doesn't do anything for you, a man that doesn't want to make your life better, deserves nothing from you, truly. Because women, we amplify everything. We have the power to change the energy in an entire room, you know? You give a woman sperm, she'll give you a baby. You give a woman a house, she'll give you a home. And so I think sometimes, um, women are told that that's not as powerful as it is, but it

• 22:16Speaker 02

  is. You know? Men used to go to war for women, die for women.

• 22:21Jen Cohen?

  Right. There's been a, there's been a huge shift, though, in the last, you know?

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, lots of.

• 22:27Jen Cohen?

  Many years.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Lots of, uh, yeah.

• 22:30Jen Cohen?

  There's a lot of shifts. Like, modern dating is not, there's very few men now, I, I, I just noticed, are not as chivalrous. There's, they don't believe in chivalry. Everything is about equal. I mean, I can be, I can be the biggest powerhouse in the world, but I still believe in chivalry, and I still believe that, like, a man should open the door of my car. A man should still pay for dinner. A man should still take care of my tech support. You know, whatever it is.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, mow my lawn, take out the garbage.

• 22:57Jen Cohen?

  Like, right.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Do something.

• 22:58Jen Cohen?

  There is, like, something to be said for, like, keeping certain gender roles. I, I don't know what the word is, like.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Consistent.

• 23:07Jen Cohen?

  Consistent. And like, there is something to be said for, like, being a man and having, like, masculine energy, which are these things. Like.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:15Jen Cohen?

  Uh, who wants to go on a date and you're, what, paying Dutch? You are just splitting the bill?

• 23:19Speaker 02

  It's embarrassing.

• 23:20Jen Cohen?

  It's embarrassing.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  It's embarrassing. Like, if you hate me, just say that.

• 23:24Jen Cohen?

  Or like, but I, I think that there's been a shift overall. There's two things. I think that we're in a generation or in a culture time when some peo-, actually, I would believe some men think now it would be offensive to try to pay for the bill, because some women are so, they're such, they're so pro, you know, I don't know, fem- feminine, like feminist rights, that there, there's, they've been blurred with what's actually chivalrous and what's feminist and what's appropriate. Like, I, I find there's, there's, that's why people are not dating. They're not, like, having these. Like love romantic relationships with like the opposite sex anymore.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that the whole fifty fifty argument is, you know, all a rage, right?

• 24:10Jen Cohen?

  Not, not to me.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:13Jen Cohen?

  Have you ever heard the saying what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine?

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, he's all about hers, she's all about hers. Yeah.

• 24:21Jen Cohen?

  Well, no, but like I find like, like true men, like they wanna be able to, they, they do wanna do that.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:28Jen Cohen?

  But like, do you think that women though are like, they play this like, no, men are, women are, women are just like men.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  No, we're not.

• 24:37Jen Cohen?

  Like, and like that whole song with by Miley, Miley Cyrus, like, you know, flowers, like, you know, I can buy my own flowers. Yeah, you may be able to buy your own flowers.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Do that, though.

• 24:46Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, but who wants to, I don't wanna buy my own flowers, like.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  And I don't wanna ask you to buy me flowers either.

• 24:52Jen Cohen?

  Right? So like, you've seen all of the, okay, so with all of this happening in modern dating, right? The ghosting, the texting, the social media, the DMing, you know, sliding in someone's inbox, the apps. Like, where are we now with modern dating? Like, what should we do to kind of push back? And also, what are some red flags that we should be looking for?

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Red flags. I think when it comes to dating apps, someone that hasn't, you know, filled out their profile, like, they're just throwing something up without actually putting some thought into it. I think that's a red flag. I think talking negatively about your exes, I think before you give your man, or give a man, your undivided attention, I want you to go through his social media following. That is gonna tell you so much about who this man is. If you go through his social media following and it looks like a nail salon directory. Pack it up, pack it up. But because I just, I just don't believe the, the whole argument of, oh, I, I don't even know how I'm following all these people. It's like, no, you, you're following these people for a reason.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  I don't know about you, but my social media feed is, is very curated.

• 26:04Jen Cohen?

  By the way, I have a better one for you. How about don't date a guy who's on social media?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's.

• 26:10Jen Cohen?

  I think that's like, I think that's the number one.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Standard. That's the gold standard.

• 26:13Jen Cohen?

  Number one relate, dating tip I can give you. If your guy is on social media, probably not the guy you wanna be dating.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I, I don't think I could ever date a guy who knows what a photo dump is.

• 26:26Jen Cohen?

  Like I I see some of these guys on social media who are like putting together carousels.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:31Jen Cohen?

  What are you doing putting together a carousel like to me? Go out there and work, go out there and do something more productive. If you're sitting there like.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Go cut wood.

• 26:40Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, or like do something.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:42Jen Cohen?

  I don't care, cut wood, do your job, do go sit in an office cubicle and just pick your nose. But if you're spending your time like on social media to that level where you're like curating your own photos and pictures like.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  It's problematic.

• 26:56Jen Cohen?

  It's the biggest turn off in the world.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, go go make some money.

• 27:00Jen Cohen?

  Right, like and you could say, well, what if they're an influencer?

• 27:04Speaker 02

  I wouldn't date a guy influencer.

• 27:06Jen Cohen?

  No, no, no.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  But what I will say is that I do think that all men are providers, whether whether they provide peace or problems is another thing. But I think even if a guy maybe isn't at the same financial level as you, he will want to make your life easier. It's almost like they come to you and it's almost like they become childlike. You know, they just want to please you, they just want to make you happy. But if you find that a guy is continuing to come in and out of your life and he's providing nothing but confusion and problems.

• 27:41Jen Cohen?

  Well, I think I think there's a couple of things you said like at the beginning, I think everybody's like like a puppy dog and doting, right? I think that's called the honeymoon stage.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:49Jen Cohen?

  I think the the bigger question is what happens phase two? Because I think everything kind of like wears itself out a little bit, right? Like the honeymoon stage eventually wears out, so they maybe they're not as doting. That's the phase where I think a lot of people fall into a problem, right? I think the first phase where like it's like puppy love and he wants to do everything for you and you guys love each other. And it's like all great and fine, then what? Because that will fade.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  I think developing emotional discipline and finding someone who is not just seeking, you know, immediate gratification. I think that happiness is a.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Byproduct of fulfillment and that comes in doing the hard things. You know, it can feel unrewarding when you know you've been in a relationship with someone for maybe four or five years and it feels like it's the same thing over and over again. And so I think still being able to pay attention to the small things and being able to, you know, show up for yourself, but also show up for your person and knowing that, okay, this feeling is going to come and go, but I'm not just looking for someone that I can have this constant excitement with because as someone who came out of a long-term relationship, you know, you notice that it's really, it's not that exciting, you know?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  And it's just important to know that, you know, the, the undisciplined life isn't worth living because it doesn't produce anything.

• 29:19Jen Cohen?

  So tell, tell us what you mean by emotional discipline?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  I think emotional discipline is being able to do what you know, not what you feel. And I think oftentimes people just wanna listen to your heart, you know, just do whatever you've, do whatever feels right. But really, when I'm in a situation and I have, you know, an instinct to, you know, act in a certain way, okay, I know I need to pause because it's almost like with time, you, you get perspective, you get clarity. It's very much like when you were in, when you were in college and let's say you went out drinking with your friends and you came back home and you swore you set your alarm to seven o'clock and then you wake up eight hours later and you realize, actually I, I set my calculator to seven hundred.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  You know, you, you think you know in the moment, but you don't. And so I think being able to allow for space between your emotion and your actions so that you can really, you know, digest what's happening, kind of treat it like a, like a science experiment.

• 30:20Jen Cohen?

  I think the first step would be like self-awareness that you have emotion, like how, like that you have it or you don't have it. Is there like a framework that you can walk us through of how people can start truly developing emotional discipline in like real time?

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, doing hard things, doing the things you know you don't want to do. Wake up every day and ask yourself the question, what am I avoiding right now? What am I avoiding? Because that's probably the thing that you need to do most. And that's gonna probably affect your life the most.

• 30:51Jen Cohen?

  So would you say emotional discipline is really just discipline? Like going to the gym for me is create, has created. Like that's like kind of like a microcosm for life, right? Because I've forced myself to a place where habitually every day I go to the gym, no matter if I like it, don't like it. I'm not basing me going, my workout or me working out has zero to do if I want to do it. Zero to do if I feel like it. I will do it anyway. Not because I like it, not because I'm interested in it, but I do it because I have disciplined myself over time to get up. And that's part of my daily routine. And I focus on how I feel afterwards, not how I feel before.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:36Jen Cohen?

  Right? And I don't rely on my feelings to tell me or dictate if I'm going to be at the gym or not. I just know I'm going. Now, is there things that we can do in life? Maybe it is the gym. Where that gym, going to the gym, working out every day, helps train and hone your emotional discipline?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say journaling has been really helpful for my clients.

• 32:02Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  I think especially when it comes to dating, sometimes they'll want to come to their partner and just say whatever is on their mind.

• 32:09Jen Cohen?

  Hmm.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I disagree with that. I think that the way you say something and the way you, you know, express yourself to your partner is crucial. Because either you're gonna build up trust that, you know, when they come to you with a concern, that you're gonna hold that emotional space. But, you know, how many times has, you know, a partner come to you? And you're just reactive? And then you're immediately want to say your side? I think being able to take a step back, being able to articulate what you want to say, and, and then coming together and having, you know, a respectful conversation. Those things can be really helpful. Also. Oftentimes, when I'm in a situation with a partner

• 32:55Speaker 02

  and something really bothers me, and then I say something in the moment, oftentimes, it's not helpful. But if I take even a couple hours, I ask myself, okay, is this really a battle that I want to take on? Because if everything is a battle, that's problematic.

• 33:15Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 33:23Jen Cohen?

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• 34:08Jen Cohen?

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• 35:01Jen Cohen?

  Now, is there something to be said for attachment? Like, different attachment theories, right? Like, if you're an anxious person and I'm an avoidant person, maybe we just aren't a good match. What are some matches that people maybe can look at? Because I hear a lot about that in the Zygotes. Like, if he's an avoidant and if you're an anxious, then maybe... Is there any truth to these things?

• 35:24Speaker 02

  I think that at the core of every anxious person is just a person who is in a severely avoidant relationship with themselves. They don't know how to self-regulate, and so they turn to the people around them. And sometimes they're overly reliant. And sometimes that can be quite taxing on your partner. And I think at the core of every avoidant person is just a person who is in a severely anxious relationship with themselves. Their parents let them down, and so they learn how to be hyper-independent. And what were they told growing up? They were often told, "Go to your room and come back when you can be rational." And so now, when they grow up with that mentality, when people come to them with their emotions, you're like, "What are you doing? This is weird.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Give me some space, or I'm gonna give you some space so that you can handle yourself, just for things to get even worse." But I think that attachment theory and anxious attachment and avoidant attachment, it's a spectrum, with secure being in the middle. And so, you'll often find that avoidant partners and anxious partners typically go together. But that's not saying that you can't create a healthy relationship out of that. It's a matter of, do both of these partners want the same thing? Do they want to make it work? Are they willing to do the work? Because I can't tell you how many times I've had clients come to me, and it's the anxious partner saying, "I just want him to go to therapy, and I want to do couples counseling."

• 36:50Speaker 02

  And he doesn't want to do it. You know, that's like forcing someone to go to the gym. Anybody can go to the gym for, you know, a couple of days a week, but unless they want it for themselves, you're not going to see the results.

• 37:02Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  That you're looking for.

• 37:03Jen Cohen?

  So the way to, I like that we said, so the way to harness emotional discipline, a good tip would be to journal because you're like basically verbalizing verbal diarrhea on a piece of paper.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  People don't do that anymore. They don't, they don't write things down really.

• 37:18Jen Cohen?

  Well, could we write, can they write it on a, in a, in a, like a note?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  I, I think you can, but I think it's more powerful when you're actually putting it down on paper because it really slows it down. Like using the voice to text, I'm guilty of it. I use voice to text so much.

• 37:32Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  But no, really slowing down and not listening to anything, not listening to, you know, TV in the background, not listening to your music, just being really present and allowing yourself the opportunity to learn how to sit with negative emotions and not having to do anything. You know, a lot of people, they, they can't, you know, they'll, they'll turn to, they'll, uh, they'll turn to food, they'll turn to alcohol, they'll, they'll turn to, you know, dysfunctional behaviors. You are such a powerful person if you can just emotionally regulate yourself.

• 38:03Jen Cohen?

  Well, emotional regulation is the number one

• 38:08Jen Cohen?

  most powerful thing you can do for success overall in life, not just in relationships, but professionally in other, other relationships in your life, like the ability to self-regulate, emotionally regulate, they say is the number one predictor of like, of your success level across the board. It's also the most difficult thing to do, right? Especially if you're someone who has anxiety or ADD or whatever it is, right? I'll be curious to ask you, because you work with such successful women as on a whole, what would you say the number one thing is that most of your clients or most successful women complain about when it comes to dating?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  They come to me and they say that men are threatened by them. And men, you know, they they'll self sabotage. And they think that the dating pool is really small. That's what they'll come to me and they'll complain about.

• 39:01Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, because if they're super successful. They want a man typically who is more successful than them. And we're living in a time when, if you haven't seen the numbers, let me just give you some stats here. There's more women in college, in more women.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Homeowners.

• 39:19Jen Cohen?

  What it in what?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Who are homeowners.

• 39:21Jen Cohen?

  Who are homeowners, more women, successful entrepreneurs, more women make more money. And they've taken on the role of the masculine role, like we were saying earlier. And so the men become these more like more subservient or more less successful. Person. So it's again, the power dynamic is very off. So what do they do?

• 39:44Speaker 02

  I think it's learning how to really lean into your feminine energy, which is just letting things be, not feeling the need to fix everything.

• 39:53Jen Cohen?

  But that doesn't change. You can be as you can lean as far left or right or up or down into your feminine energy.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:00Jen Cohen?

  But if there's no successful men that are superseding your success, you're still left in a very weird power dynamic.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it can be challenging, but I think also being able to really be okay with being by yourself. With for a lot of my clients, you know, they are better off by themselves for a period of time. And, you know, letting that person come to them. But when that does happen, being able to let him lead, like not pushing the relationship forward whatsoever. Because the guy who does want to be that guy for you, he's gonna do it. And you would be shocked at how these women, they. It's almost like they they turn into somebody else. They they become so playful. You know, have you ever had some girlfriends where you are just so playful with them? You feel so safe with them?

• 40:51Jen Cohen?

  Right, because you're not forced to be in your masculine.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:54Jen Cohen?

  So I think a lot of women who are successful and high achievers, they they fall into the masculine role or masculine energy because they kind of have to.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:07Jen Cohen?

  Because they don't have somebody who's going to be able to take over that masculine role. So it becomes kind of like this like chicken or the egg situation, right? It's not because like, I don't know, one, I really don't. I don't know many, many of my friends who are like single or dating, who are the really successful ones, who want to be this like dominating powerhouse, you know, alpha woman.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  They don't.

• 41:33Jen Cohen?

  They don't, but they have no choice.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:35Jen Cohen?

  Because they're not able to find a man who'll take on that alpha role.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:39Jen Cohen?

  And women want that alpha man.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:43Jen Cohen?

  It just is what it is. People, guys who, if you're a B, if you're like a beta, I don't know what you call it. You know, you maybe you don't want to, you don't want to hear it, but that is the reality.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  It really is, yeah.

• 41:53Jen Cohen?

  It's not even so much about looks or like any of that. Like it's an energy, right?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  It is, and if he's not confident.

• 42:02Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  If you're always having to kind of reassure him, it's going to turn you off.

• 42:07Jen Cohen?

  Totally.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  What these women want is they want to be able to kind of turn off their brain and let him handle things because they're going to be happy with where they end up.

• 42:16Jen Cohen?

  Right, so then let's get into the landscape of dating right now. Because we said like, it's not so easy to find people. People are now online a lot. If you're busy, it's not that accessible. So people are joining these running clubs, whatever else. Or if they could, they're not, but they should. Can you tell me what you're seeing in the, what is the landscape from your perspective of dating right now?

• 42:38Speaker 02

  I think there are a lot of people that are on dating apps that just aren't serious. And so I think. Oftentimes, you know, you could go out on a date with a person and you could have an incredible first date. It could be five hours, right? But then it's emotionally exhausting to try and keep that up. And so what I think is that when it comes to dating, almost like schedule it in, like, don't just passively be swiping, you know, throughout the day. Just say, okay, I'm gonna dedicate 20 minutes to, you know, swiping and knowing that, yeah, I do want to be in a long-term relationship. And so I'm gonna put myself out there. I'm gonna go out to that coffee shop without my headphones in. I am gonna be, you know, more approachable. And then when you do find someone that, you know, you're going out with, I would encourage you to date multiple

• 43:23Speaker 02

  people. I'm not saying sleep with them. But what I am saying is that when you go out on dates with more than one person, then you know not to invest too much too soon. You know, there's kind of a cadence to it, you know, let these dates be, you know, 60, 90 minutes. And then, you know, see what you like, see what you're comfortable with. And then, you know, if you want to continue seeing someone, then yeah, go and do it. But when you dive face first, and, you know, you're three dates in and you're practically moved in together, then you're not allowing things to develop organically. You're missing the red flags.

• 43:59Jen Cohen?

  Mm hmm. So, because since you do specialize in women who are highly successful, take it back with that, because are they going on apps? I don't see these women who are like A-list celebrities or B-celeb- I don't see celebrities.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Raya is not what it used to be.

• 44:13Jen Cohen?

  Raya is not. Like, have you been on this? I mean, I'm not on Raya. But I'll tell you that a lot of my friends who actually are on Raya, it's a bunch of influencers and like wannabe actors. That's what it comes, and then some real actors, or actors. I mean, let me not say wannabe actors. I don't think it has necessarily the caliber that honestly, that like, women are looking for. And now Raya's gonna sue me probably, but I'm not on there. This is hearsay. This is me just saying what I think I've heard, okay? But what I'm saying is that like, where are people going then to do it? Like, where are these women meeting these men?

• 44:51Speaker 02

  It's really friends of friends.

• 44:53Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  You know, being set up. It's, you know, working on your community, your social network.

• 44:59Jen Cohen?

  Doing what you like to do.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:01Jen Cohen?

  Meeting people in like the places that you would normally go. Like, it's no surprise, no secret that whenever I, you know, been single, I love to work out and I love to eat food. So I would meet the guys I would go out with at a grocery store or at the gym.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:16Jen Cohen?

  Without fail, I'd meet them at Whole Foods, because I'm always there.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:20Jen Cohen?

  Or at the gym.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:21Jen Cohen?

  And I mean, like, that's why I think it's also really important to emphasize again, and reiterate again, that it's so important to have things that you enjoy and that are, that are like your hobbies and, and diversify your interests, right? And not everything goes into that partner, not everything goes into that man. Because if it doesn't work, or even if it is working, you're actually, both of you are, it's, it's actually a better dynamic when you both have things going on in your life.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Absolutely, because if the relationship isn't working, you're more inclined to let it go. But if you have let your career slip, you've let your fitness slip, this is like your, your only thing that you have going on, you're not gonna wanna let go.

• 46:02Jen Cohen?

  No, absolutely not. That's why I was gonna say, like, even like if you, like, even if you're financially reliant, keep your body hot, because if it does end, you'll find someone quicker.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Stay hot.

• 46:17Jen Cohen?

  Stay hot.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  That's like my number one tip here, stay hot.

• 46:20Jen Cohen?

  Stay hot, stay ready. You know, like, me and my friend always say this, like, they're like, are you ready to go? I'm like, I, I stay ready. I, I don't, I don't need to get ready.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Stay ready so you don't have to get ready.

• 46:30Jen Cohen?

  100%, I don't need to get ready, cuz I'm already ready, cuz.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:34Jen Cohen?

  And, and guess what? It will, it shifts everything else anyway, because I believe life also, there is a big piece of this in self-confidence and self-esteem. If you have a higher self-esteem and a higher self-confidence, people will respond to you the way you respond to yourself, and like. I think confidence is the sexiest thing out there for a girl, a guy, whatever. It doesn't matter.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:59Jen Cohen?

  And like someone will treat you accordingly, right? If you don't like feel that you're so great and you feel kind of like not that attractive and not that fit and not that smart and not that capable, guess what? Like it's not like if you're putting that energy out there, they're gonna, they're gonna pick up on it and it won't be attractive to them either, I promise you.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, and people, and people think it's superficial that you wanna stay hot.

• 47:21Jen Cohen?

  No.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  But when it comes to, you know, having a job, people understand that when you're, you know, when you've been at a job for three, four years, you know, keep your resume current, you know, you know, upskill, like always be learning, right?

• 47:34Jen Cohen?

  Uh, uh, and also like always be learning, but I, um, like I will always tell my friends that in general, we talk with all the time, like there's, when, once you allow yourself the, like the, the, the permission, okay, to let yourself go in every way, that's also when things start to slip and fall, like keep, I think it's very important to keep the other person on their toes. This is what I liked about your content, right? Because you're speaking a language that like really resonated with me, like I, I'm a big believer in all of this, right? Like you, you gotta like, you gotta like know your worth, you gotta like have confidence, you gotta like, you gotta show up for yourself and like no matter how someone's treating

• 48:17Jen Cohen?

  you, if you kind of have your own sense of self, your, your response to whatever they do is very different than if you, uh, if you, if your self-esteem is low, if you're insecure, if you feel unworthy, like you're, how you're gonna respond to that person and and in life is very different. The opportunities that happen to you will happen very differently to you when you think that you deserve it versus the opposite.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:43Jen Cohen?

  Right? Like never let a guy, never let, let a guy or anybody think that like they're lucky to have, like that you're lucky to have them, they should feel lucky to have you.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know, men actually thrive in relationships like that where they feel like, oh my God, I have no idea how I got this woman, but she's here and I'm grateful and I'm, I'm just happy.

• 49:03Jen Cohen?

  A hundred percent. A lot of my, a lot of friends I have, like men, guy friends, the ones who are the happiest, the ones in the happiest relationships, the happiest marriages is because the guy, honestly, he, they like, they are so.

• 49:17Jen Cohen?

  They they feel so lucky and they're so they feel like they won the jackpot with their wife or their wife. It the ones who are like, yeah, she's fine. That's not a great that's not a great place to be. You know what I mean?

• 49:31Speaker 02

  No, and you know, how often have you been to a wedding where it's the woman speaking? And she's telling everyone about how, you know, yeah, he wasn't that into me. But you know, eventually I, you know, I did a backflip and and he noticed how great I was. And then

• 49:46Jen Cohen?

  I've never heard that.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, you never hear that. But how often have you heard a guy saying that? You know, she blew me off. She put me in her friend zone for a while, but you know, it was a slow burn. And then eventually we fell in love. How often do you hear that?

• 49:58Jen Cohen?

  I had all that's exactly true. I was gonna say like the ones that actually tend to still be working years later. It's like when the guy had to work for it. I tried for so long. She'd blow me off. She said, no, I kept on coming back. I kept on trying. I kept on trying. Guys need that. Like, I just think that like these are like this to me. This is like just like human nature, actually. This is like the laws of human nature.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:23Jen Cohen?

  Which is why I want to talk to you about now. We're gonna like kind of segue into something else that you talk a lot about, which is when break when you do break up. Breaking up is like a big one, right? Like you're big on no contact, like no contact and detachment.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:37Jen Cohen?

  Okay, so does this scenario, does it, does it? Is it all whenever you have a breakup in general? Or there are certain circumstances where that doesn't apply? Or does it apply all the time?

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, if you have kids, that obviously doesn't apply. You have you you obviously have to stay in contact to some degree. But I think in general, no contact is the way to go. Because otherwise you are, you know, prolonging your healing. And you might think, oh, I don't want to block them. I don't want them to think this. I don't want them to think that. This is your life. This is your life. And the more you avoid the inevitable, the more it's gonna hurt. And so would you rather do it right or do it twice?

• 51:18Jen Cohen?

  Right, or more than twice, actually?

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:20Jen Cohen?

  Um, so how is there like a certain thing like a strategy? Or like, is it no contact forever? Or like what is it also depending on what your intent is? Are you doing no contact to get the person back? Or are you doing no contact just to move on with your life? Like, there's different strategies that would be applicable depending on what you're trying to accomplish, right?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think that in general, no contact is Forever, you know, if things ended and it was a very dysfunctional dynamic, like people were cheating, betrayal, like all those

• 51:55Jen Cohen?

  Well, yeah.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  kinds of situations. Really? Why would you want to be with someone that you literally had to heal from?

• 52:08Jen Cohen?

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• 52:52Jen Cohen?

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• 53:35Jen Cohen?

  How about this? Are there any scenarios where a no contact situation does not apply?

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, when you, when you have kids, when you have joint assets, when you work together, you know, I've had some clients where they have a business together and so it can be incredibly challenging. And so in those cases, no, but definitely having strong emotional boundaries. And these aren't things that you state, they're things that you just enforce. And things that you have to hold yourself accountable for, which means no contact is not going through their social media following, seeing if it's gone up or down, it's not showing up at the restaurant you guys used to frequent to see if you're gonna bump into him. It's not, uh, reaching out to his friend saying, hey, how are you? I, I need help with this, I need help with, no, none of that. You need to cut it off completely. In fact, get one of those thirty day calendars

• 54:23Speaker 02

  a- and put it on your fridge and every day that you maintain no contact, you're not looking at anything of theirs, you know, cross it off.

• 54:29Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  You know, really just focus on the next twenty-four hours because that's, that's the way to go.

• 54:36Jen Cohen?

  Also, you know, the truth of the matter is scarcity breeds like curiosity and interest, right?

• 54:47Speaker 02

  It does.

• 54:48Jen Cohen?

  If you're always there saying, look at me, look at me, hey, I'm still here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That like, you're like defeating the, like, if, if your goal, again, not to be a manipulative person here, but if your goal is to kind of like get the person back and you keep on texting them and calling them and checking in on them, you're going about it wrong. You don't have to be a dating strategist to know that. It's this, again, it's laws of human nature.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:11Jen Cohen?

  Scarcity breed breeds like interest, curiosity.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  It's value.

• 55:16Jen Cohen?

  Value.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:17Jen Cohen?

  Right? That's why like a Birkin bag has more value than, I don't know, uh, I don't know, my Lululemon bag, right?

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:26Jen Cohen?

  Because it's less available, exactly.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  You have to build a relationship and, and you never know when the reward is gonna be. It's that intermittent reinforcement.

• 55:34Jen Cohen?

  One hundred percent. So how does one detach from an ex?

• 55:41Jen Cohen?

  Uh, is there like a framework people can work? Can you give people some strategies or some like action items?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  I do have one exercise that I tell my clients all the time. And the exercise is called, what's the story? Oftentimes, when we think about, you know, the relationship deteriorating in our mind, we think it's completely different. And so we put it down on paper and we're making all of these rationalizations of, oh, he meant well, you know, he was just going through a hard time. Is he going through a hard time or is he just having a bad life? Like if he's constantly doing this, oh, this, this isn't who he truly is. Really? He did it 15 times. So who else would it be? And so being able to put that down on paper and then going ahead and highlighting all of those inaccuracies, and then rewriting that story that's free of those inaccuracies. So you can take him off that pedestal.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Oftentimes when there's a breakup, you know, we, we put their love on a pedestal because we think, wow, like it, it must have been me, I must have been the problem. And then allowing yourself to reframe the situation.

• 56:44Jen Cohen?

  We all do that.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:45Jen Cohen?

  I think everyone is guilty of that, right? That's the problem, I think, though, with no contact even sometimes, right? Because I would think that the longer you don't talk to the person, the, the more time you have to romanticize the relationship and to reframe it into being better than it was.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Hmm, yeah, I, I see this quote all over TikTok and it's, there's a lot of intimacy and never speaking again. Because all you're left is with the memories, right? And oftentimes, yeah, we look back and we think it was better than what it really was.

• 57:19Jen Cohen?

  How do we shake our, like, how do we kind of like get ourselves out of that?

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Realizing that it's not about the love that we had for them. It's about reminding ourselves of what we had to sacrifice. You know, when I think back to my, you know, previous relationship before I started my business, sure, I loved that person, but I hated that version of me. And There was just no way I was going to birth the person that I am now if they were still in my life.

• 57:44Jen Cohen?

  So tell me, what, what, what happened to you? Like, what was your, what was your like story? But like what that kind of got you on this path? I know we talked about earlier, you were doing tech work and this and that. But like, okay, so what was your heartbreak?

• 57:59Speaker 02

  So, so yeah, I met them in, in 2019. It was kind of like a whirlwind romance. I was uh, visiting family in Nicaragua and then COVID hit. And so we had to go our separate ways. He went back to Australia. I went back to Canada. But we, we kept like an online friendship for nearly two years throughout COVID and we were video calling, you know, throughout the week. They were, these were hour long calls. I got to know this person on such an intimate level, right? Without even like seeing him. And then when borders opened up, I decided to go to Australia and he said, you know, we didn't come this far to not see what we could be. And then I just, I, I went fully remote with my tech job. And when you're in Australia, you have to be on a working holiday visa. So I worked two jobs. I worked the, the tech job.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  That was fully remote and this is the craziest part. I was working at Krispy Kreme, nothing wrong with that. But I was working these two jobs and

• 58:53Jen Cohen?

  Because you had to have the

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I had to have those two jobs, right? So then three months into the relationship, I decided that I was gonna stay there. I, I noticed some messages that were like in his phone and they made me really uncomfortable. And I remember he like, he woke up because it was in the middle of the night. And he's like, this won't ever happen again. And I said, if I ever catch you doing anything like this, I don't care what's happening. I will leave you. And then throughout the relationship, I just had this sinking feeling that he was doing things behind my back. There were certain stories that he would tell me and it just wasn't sitting right with me. And then everything kind of came to a head when I found out I was pregnant.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  I found out I was pregnant. It was so stressful. It was kind of a ectopic pregnancy because I had an IUD. And I had just seen like the person that was, you know, so eager to be with me, all of a sudden become the meanest person I have ever met. And at that point, we, we were engaged, we were living together. And I decided to quit my tech job to fully focus on, you know, building my life in Australia. Obviously I didn't have full working rights at the time. And I just remembered Thinking to myself, this is the most vulnerable I have ever been. And we were at his sister's wedding when I told him about, you know, the termination. And I said something about him getting a vasectomy.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  And he said, I don't want to play this game with you, but if you force me, I will. I provide this incredible life for us so you don't get to talk. And it was in that moment where I was like, I, I just knew everything I, I need to leave this man, right? The following week, I'm getting ready, going to work. And there's just something in me like, he's doing something and I need to know what it is. I go through his computer and I, I see so many messages with, with different women, just really disrespectful stuff. And I know, you know, a lot of people that are listening to this, it's like, wow, you're going to throw away your relationship because you just saw some messages. It wasn't about that. It was the fact that I had literally taken a massive step back in my career. I had put everything on the line and, and for what?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  For him to disrespect me like this, for him to.

• 1:01:04Jen Cohen?

  I don't think anyone would say that to you. I would say absolutely. Why would they, you move your life to Aus- to Australia. You quit your job, you're pregnant.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:13Jen Cohen?

  I mean, I think that's a lot of, I think that nobody would listen and be like, why would she do that?

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  And yeah, and so things were probably the worst it, it had ever been. And I thought to myself, okay, maybe I can still see past this, like maybe we can still work through this. And I had asked him to live on base, like, like he, he could live somewhere else. Uh, for a couple of weeks while I was like recovering from the termination. And I kid you not, it, I noticed that he had been following a girl from his past, one that we had like argued about. And what do you have it? I reach out to her and I'm like, has he reached out to you? And the day I asked him to leave to give me space while I was recovering, he said, are you still living in Sydney? And that was my, that was it.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  I booked my flight and I just, I was like, this will never happen to me.

• 1:02:06Jen Cohen?

  Are you still living in Sydney? Who said that? The girl?

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  He, he said that to her. He said that to her because he wanted to go meet up with her for, for whatever reason. Yeah, while our relationship was literally falling apart. And it was in that moment where.

• 1:02:20Jen Cohen?

  What year was this now? Twenty?

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  This was October 24th, 2023.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  So not even two years ago. And so then I packed up my things. I moved back in with my parents. I was completely broke. And I remember one of the last things I I asked him was, you know, please don't ever do this to anybody else. Can you just promise me that? And he didn't even give me a straight answer. And I was like, you know what? I'll take it on myself. I'll learn everything I need to know. And I'll educate as many people as possible so that women don't have to go through this. And then, yeah, now nearly two years later, I only, I I have nearly a million followers across social media and I, yeah.

• 1:03:02Jen Cohen?

  Has he, has he reached out to you?

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  No, he hasn't. But there are some things I can tell you off camera, just because I know he's in a relationship right now and I don't want to embarrass anybody.

• 1:03:15Jen Cohen?

  Wow, that's crazy. But you know what's actually even crazier? This happens all the time. Like some form of that type of situation, right?

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Jen Cohen?

  And you're young, though. How old are you?

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  I'm twenty six.

• 1:03:27Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, so you're like a baby. So you, this is like just the beginning for you. You're gonna have like, oh, you have a boyfriend right now?

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he's actually here with me right now.

• 1:03:36Jen Cohen?

  Oh, really?

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I left all the bags with him.

• 1:03:39Jen Cohen?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  He's checking in at the hotel right now.

• 1:03:42Jen Cohen?

  How did you meet this guy?

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Uh, we met, we met on a dating app. I won't say the dating app because they're not paying me.

• 1:03:48Jen Cohen?

  Okay.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  But yeah, we met on a dating app and it was just easy. It was easy. Uh, we were very aligned and he wasn't threatened by my goals at all. He just, he's kind of like the fuel to my fire, like very supportive, very, very ambitious.

• 1:04:08Jen Cohen?

  What does he do?

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  He's in sales.

• 1:04:11Jen Cohen?

  And how long have you been dating him for?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Uh, for a few months.

• 1:04:16Jen Cohen?

  Oh, it's like, so it's very new.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, after I called off my engagement, I was celibate for probably a year. A year, yeah.

• 1:04:23Jen Cohen?

  And then you met this guy?

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Jen Cohen?

  Well, you probably met someone else before him, or maybe not. Did you go on a lot of dates afterwards?

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  I did go out on dates, but nothing that ended up being serious. I think I was just so focused on building my business and just establishing stability in my life that I think, yeah, it was only in like the last few months where I got to a point in my business where I was like, okay, you know, I feel safe. I feel comfortable. I think I'm ready to actually, yeah, you know, prioritize dating and kind of just fell into my lap.

• 1:04:55Jen Cohen?

  Because, you know, you talk so much about no contact and detachment that I, you know, for such a young girl, you know, I thought, like, how much experience have you had in the no contact? Like, what made you kind of double down on that part?

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Double down on no contact?

• 1:05:11Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of videos that come up on my feed with you are about absence, detachment, no contact. Like, what, why so many on that area?

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Because that's what I think my clients struggle with the most, and that's what they, they want to know. You know, there's, there's so many, you know, there's so many videos out there that are like, oh, play hard to get and, you know, make, uh, yeah, make him chase you, right? But what about healing from a relationship? Nobody talks about these things. Why? Because it's in, it's embarrassing, you know? It's, it's hard to heal from the things that you can't even say out loud. And so I think trying to, you know, create content that's helping women in that stage of their life is, is really important.

• 1:05:58Jen Cohen?

  That's interesting. So would you say then that from all the experience that you've had with your clients and social media DMs, I would imagine, is that's the biggest struggle? Is the, is like how to kind of stay away?

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  How to stay away? How to stay away when you still, how to walk away from someone that you still love, that you want so badly, but you know that they're never gonna get it. They're never gonna get it and you're just, you're tired.

• 1:06:25Jen Cohen?

  Have you seen no contact work like over, like all the time? What's the, what's the ratio?

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, well, it depends what your goal is. You know, I have one client in particular that she went no contact with this guy and he was, he went like berserk in trying to repair things. She had actually uh moved to support him in with his residency and then, you know, he had taken her for granted. You know, her whole family ended up basically hating him. She moved back home and he basically wrote her a book of all of the things that, you know, he was gonna do differently. He called her, her parents. You know, he went to go and meet with them separately saying, you know, I won't even try for the relationship unless I have your approval because I know she cares about you, you guys the most and it's, it's just not gonna work unless you guys are on board.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  And he, he went through the wringer and he made it work. And so I think that's why I, I do believe in the whole, if he wanted to, he could.

• 1:07:24Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Or he would.

• 1:07:25Jen Cohen?

  He would.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Jen Cohen?

  Right. I always think that too. If they wanted to, they would. I, I heard something funny the other day. It's that, was it like, don't, don't chase somebody who knows where you are.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Who knows how to contact.

• 1:07:39Jen Cohen?

  Who knows how to contact you, which like hit me really hard because it's so true, right? Like, but we, we like spiral, right? Because it's like a dopamine hit.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:50Jen Cohen?

  Right?

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yeah, it's tough because you know, when you're in no contact, what are you doing? You're betting on a future that doesn't exist yet, right? And so that, that's so tough because so many people stay. I know so many people that are in relationships right now where they're suffering, where they don't like it. And so I think it's just important to know that, you know, you're writing the story for your 80 year old self. And so what is your 80 year old self gonna say?

• 1:08:19Jen Cohen?

  Well, I, yeah, I mean. I think that people normally do no contact. I think it may start. It's also depends what were your reasons like if it may start with one thing. But then if you wait enough time, it will change, right? Like you'll get over it because even though you're doing it like, oh, I'm gonna minute. I'm gonna get this guy back or he's gonna like really regret, you know, giving me up or whatever the thing is. But like if enough time passes, you end up kind of. The pain starts to like subs like kind of. Lessen.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Jen Cohen?

  Right? And you end up kind of like it ends up working better for you in the long run.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Jen Cohen?

  I want to talk to you about dating norms again, and um. What have you seen change most dramatically in the last few years? And what should people adapt to? And what should people resist?

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  I think. Women. Wanting men to be more chivalrous. And like wanting to pay for everything. This is the thing. I think that whether you're a fifty fifty person or you want someone to, you know, fully provide for you, both are perfectly fine. But I think where you get into trouble is when you know you have these set of values and you know this person is not aligned. And you go and you try and change them. You are going to exhaust yourself. And you're gonna end up resenting the person. And so I think that's really important, just to focus on values, like not just how you feel. But yeah, values and also.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Having fun, you know, I think a lot of people, they'll go into dating and they say, I want to find my forever person. Okay. Yeah, you should have fun with the right one, but well, if you're gonna be dating the wrong ones along the way inevitably, have fun with them too.

• 1:10:04Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  You know, it's almost like when you go on vacation and you're staying in an Airbnb, you're not gonna be there forever, but well, I hope you'd have a good time.

• 1:10:12Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  You know, how often uh have you been to an Airbnb and you see the coffee machine? You're like, wow, this is nice.

• 1:10:17Jen Cohen?

  Right.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  This is amazing. The view is great. And so I don't think that there's anything wrong with even short term relationships. I think that. A short term relationship where you two are together for, you know, a year and you two get to know each other, but you notice that, okay, we're going in two separate directions and you leave the relationship respectfully. I think that is more successful than being in a five year relationship where you two are tearing each other down, where you two are miserable, but you're, but whenever it's your anniversary, it's like, oh, I've been with this person through, through these ups and downs and you know, you're doing it all for social media. Do you want to look happy or do you want to be happy?

• 1:10:54Jen Cohen?

  Well, exactly. You know, uh, there's something I also think is interesting in terms of overall relationships, right? If you fail at relationships or just don't have a long term relationship, like it's considered a failure. Let's say you have, you have like four two year relationships, right? You're considered to be a dating failure, like, oh, what's wrong with you that you only had these like short term, you know, relationships versus this person who's had maybe a 16 or a 20 year relationship, but yet it was combative and they fight all the time and he hates her and she hates him and like, it's, it's so toxic, but because they've been together for

• 1:11:34Jen Cohen?

  that long duration of time, it's like considered to be a success because the, the timestamp is longer, right?

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Jen Cohen?

  Like, I think that we have a very warped way of seeing what a successful relationship is and what it's not. And like to me, just because you are with someone longer doesn't make that relationship any more successful or doesn't make you more successful in relationships. I think the person who like saw a problem or didn't settle, got out quicker, more times is way more true to themselves and to like what, how they want to live their life. And to me, that person's more successful in relationships, not the other way around.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And it's, I think it also has to do with the relationships of, you know, our grandparents, our grandparents that stayed together for fifty, sixty years. And sometimes, you know, when you sit down with your grandmother and you're asking, oh, like, how did you and grandpa get together? And you're, do I need to call the police? Like, you're actually concerned.

• 1:12:35Jen Cohen?

  Yeah. Well, like, a lot of people, they just stayed together because that's what they did.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:39Jen Cohen?

  You know? So give me some more things on that, on that point, like, things that we should adapt to or resist.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  I think that you should resist, you know, men being feminine. I think that, yeah, men aren't gonna like it, but it's, it's better to be alone than to be with someone that you feel like truly doesn't deserve you. I think that sometimes women will go for the nice guy or the, like, the guy that's not so great looking because she thinks, oh, he's gonna treat me better. He's gonna do you even worse because he thinks that because you're giving him a chance, like I mentioned before, that he must deserve it. And so I think being able to stay single, be happy with, you know, who you are, and then, you know, dating someone that is either at the same level as you or above is important.

• 1:13:26Jen Cohen?

  So when you say feminine, do you mean, like, takes on the feminine roles? Or are you mean, like, are you talking, like, neediness? Like, what, when you say feminine, that's like, that could be a very overarching?

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm talking about men who want to be chased.

• 1:13:43Jen Cohen?

  Oh, men who want to be chased.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  Men who want to be chased.

• 1:13:45Jen Cohen?

  Men who want to be the girl.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Yes. Men who want to be chased, pursued. They want you to, you know, take them on trips and, you know, ask them to prom. No. No, no, no.

• 1:13:56Jen Cohen?

  But that's, by the way, that is what's happening in the world right now.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  It's alarming.

• 1:14:00Jen Cohen?

  No, men want to be the ones who are, like, wined and dined and chased. It is so sickening. How is that attractive, ladies? If that's what you, like, please, that is such a turn off.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so I think what women really need to lean in is with taking up space. I think women so often were shamed for taking up space. Oh, she's so loud, she's so demanding, she's so, she's such a princess. What else am I supposed to be a doormat?

• 1:14:26Jen Cohen?

  Yeah, well, I think the other, like we're saying, like, a lot of times, if a man is not confident and secure, it's very emasculating if a woman's successful.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Jen Cohen?

  And so that's why, that's why I think these dynamics are super important. Like in terms of like, having like roles in the relationship. I think that's, there's nothing that is 1950s about that. Or maybe, maybe it is, I don't care, but I think that's really important. Is there anything else you want to talk, say, like, when you say you have these coaching programs, what do you do?

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Uh, so I offer one-on-one sessions. I do have a three-month coaching intensive called Dream Girl Academy. And then I do have some clients that are on a yearly retainer. And yeah, essentially, women will come to me with their problems. We'll dive deep on like the dynamics that are going on and we'll just create a strategy moving forward. But I think for me, it's my goal to work my way out of your life so that you feel confident in the decisions that you're making. So that you can trust yourself and that you can feel, you know, happy about your relationships, not just with men, but all around.

• 1:15:38Jen Cohen?

  I love it. Well, thanks for being on the show.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks for having me.

• 1:15:41Jen Cohen?

  Enjoy the rest of the time in LA.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  I will.

• 1:15:44Jen Cohen?

  Thank you.