689 A Coach's Guide to Success with Rick Pitino

A TRUE LEADER ISN'T AFRAID TO MAKE THE FIRST MISTAKE. Coach Rick is a former American basketball coach. He’s been head coach of several teams in NCAA Division I and the NBA including Boston University, Providence College, The New York Knicks, University of Kentucky, The Boston Celtics, and University of Louisville. He is the only coach to lead three different schools to the final four. In 2013, he was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He is the author of the book Success is a Choice, he wrote an autobiography in 1988 called Born To Coach, and has a new book called My Story. In this episode, we dive into what it takes to get the most out of someone’s abilities. So get ready to learn how to be a better coach and a better leader on Episode 689. Some Questions I Ask: How do you get people to buy into a system? (12:40) What’s the speech you give the first day the teams all together? (14:20) What happened with the Kahwi Leonard situation? (21:00) Why did you leave Louiseville? (27:00) How have you been handling the aftermath of Louisville? (33:20) Do you want to coach again? (35:45) What’s more important- recruiting great players or having great plays in a game? (47:00) How do you support your mental health when you’re going through something hard? (1:02:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: Why delayed gratification is what we should be looking for (14:00) College basketball vs. NBA- which Rick enjoyed more (17:15) The greatest lessons we can learn through losing (17:55) Mental and emotional ability to rise above (24:40) How ego can get in the way of greatness (37:00) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 689 with Coach Rick Pitino.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  John Maxwell said, "A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way." And today, we've got a great coach on. His name is Coach Rick Pitino, who's a former American basketball coach. And he's been a head coach of several teams in NCAA Division I and in the NBA, including Boston University, Providence College, the New York Knicks, the University of Kentucky, the Boston Celtics, and University of Louisville. And he is the only coach to lead three different schools to a Final Four, which is massive and extremely hard to do. And in 2013, he was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

• 1:12Lewis Howes?

  He's the author of a book named Success is a Choice, and he did an autobiography in 1988 called Born to Coach. And he's got a new book out called My Story. And today, we dive in about what it takes to get the most out of someone's abilities as a coach. And this applies to whether you're coaching someone as a teammate, you're coaching someone in your business, at your work, whatever it may be. So listen up based on all ways of coaching. Also, why delayed gratification is what we should be looking for long-term over short-term. What he enjoyed more coaching in college versus the NBA.

• 1:53Lewis Howes?

  The greatest lessons we can learn through losing and what he really learned through losing. Also, how ego can get in the way of greatness and the mental and emotional ability to rise above. Again, if you want to learn how to get the most out of people, then make sure you pay attention. During this one, share it with your friends, tag me at Lewis Howes on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and the link is lewishowes.com/689. And let me know what you think. And without further ado, let's learn how to become a better coach and become a better leader with Rick Pitino.

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness podcast. We've got the legendary Coach Rick Pitino in the house. Good to see you, sir.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Great to see you.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  Very grateful that you're here and excited about all we're going to talk about today. You've got an amazing story. You've been coaching for, is it four decades now?

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:51Lewis Howes?

  And is the stat correct that you've taken teams to the Final Four over four decades? Every decade for four decades?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Taken three different universities to the Final Four, two different universities to the national championship. They're all different schools, although two are in Kentucky, and Providence College is a small school in Rhode Island. They're all different experiences. Been to seven Final Fours, and each one has been unique.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  Does it ever get different? Does it ever feel like easier, or are they all special?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  The last, the last ones you appreciate more, because it's gotten so big. You're playing in front of 60, 70,000 people, covered all over the world. In the beginning, the first one I went to, it wasn't as big.

• 3:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  But now it's gotten so big that you, the nerves after the Sweet 16.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  It's starting to feel a bit, right? Yeah, and you were coaching when the three-point line was introduced. When was that, 1980?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  1987. We led the nation, and you'll get a kick out of this. The first four Big East games we played, I think it was Lou Carnesecca, Rolie Massimino, John Thompson, they didn't make a three-point shot at all.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  They didn't want to take it, they didn't believe in it, they were totally against the rule. I had a very mediocre team, and I said, "The one thing I can do, we're going to lead the nation in three-point shooting." We played the Russians in an exhibition game, and I said, "We're going to take about 12 a game and lead the nation." I said 12 to 15. The Russians that, in an exhibition game, because they used to the three-point line.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  International play was already using it.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  They took 32 in that game.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  So I realized my, my analytics were way off. I increased it. I said, we have to take 18 threes a game, make seven or eight, and we'll lead the nation.

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  And a young man by the name of Billy Donovan was an expert in not only passing people, passing it off to people at the three-point line, but making it himself. And we led the nation that year, and it got us to the Final Four.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  Where did you learn how to become such a great coach? Was there a mentor you had early on, or was it just by coaching and learning by tons of mistakes the first few years?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  It's pretty much it, because I was a head coach at the age of 24.

• 5:00Lewis Howes?

  Early. I remember seeing that. I was like, man, right after college, you were a head coach.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I was Jim Bayheim's first assistant.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  And then I got the head coaching job at Boston University at 24. I was coaching players 21 and 22 years of age.

• 5:12Lewis Howes?

  Is it, how is this possible? Because that wouldn't happen today, right? Maybe like a 31-year-old, maybe.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Possibly.

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  At like a D1 school, that's really young.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yep. I got lucky because my college coach was a great player at Boston University, and he recommended me. So I got lucky with the job. I didn't know, it was all trial and error, not until I became the assistant coach of the New York Knicks. Now, I learned all about the zone with Jim Bayheim. He was a great tactician. But I really learned basketball from a scouting, motivational standpoint when I was assistant coach of the Knicks with UB Brown. The two years I was with UB Brown as assistant with the Knicks really was like going into a basketball library for two years.

• 5:54Lewis Howes?

  Now, why the scouting, motivational side of things?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Well, the pros is all about scouting. It's all about preparation. It's all about motivating the pros, because they're playing 82.

• 6:07Lewis Howes?

  A lot of games.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  To 90 something games, depending on the playoffs. And they're fatigued, they're constantly fatigued. And you've got to motivate them. And what I call, find their motive and turn it into action, because they're all different. You know, Patrick Ewing is much different than Mark Jackson. Mark Jackson's much different than Charles Oakley. Charles Oakley was the physical presence on the team. And I remember calling Doug Collins and asking him about him, because we traded for him. And he said, Coach, he'll either kill you or kill for you.

• 6:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  So Oak was gonna be my best friend.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  So you're more of a psychologist and anthropologist of understanding what makes people tick as a coach.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Very much so. I believe, you know, we all have our way of coaching. I'm a running, pressing coach. Defense is a premium with us. But to me, it's all about getting the most out of someone's abilities. And that's the way I recruit. I don't go after necessarily top 10 basketball players. I go after guys, I learned a long time ago, Mario Gabelli, a financial investor in New York City. I went to him to try and invest Jamal Mashburn, one of my players', money. Helen Mashburn asked me to find somebody to manage his money. And I visited Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch at the time, and Mario Gabelli, Gabelli Assets was the last person I visited in Rye, New York.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  And I tried to sound intelligent. I was young back then as the Kentucky coach. And I said, "Where do you get your talent from? University of Chicago, Harvard Business School, Wharton School?" He said, "No, not really." He took me to a back room where everybody sat. He said, "I look for PhDs." I said, "That's strange to look for PhDs in your business." He said, "Look, I look for poor, hungry, and driven people. I don't care where they go to school." And so I changed it to passionate, hungry, and driven people.

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  And I go after passionate, hungry, and driven athletes who really want to pay the price to get somewhere. And then I put the team together.

• 8:04Lewis Howes?

  How do you find that PhD? How do you find that within someone? Like, is it something they say? Is it the way they look at you? Is it the hunger they have?

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Well, when I bring them in recruiting-wise, I want them to watch us practice. We go really hard. And some players, right away, you can tell they don't want to work that hard.

• 8:22Lewis Howes?

  If it's not exciting to them, they're out.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  They don't want to work that hard. You can tell. You can check what other schools they're interested in as well. And they watch practice. "What'd you think?" I said, "Boy, you guys go really hard." When they say that, you know they're not for you. When they say, "Boy, I really, really like that intensity," you know they're for you.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. You create an environment for them so they can experience something. Then you ask them a couple of questions and see how they're going to respond.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Very much so.

• 8:49Lewis Howes?

  Now, what if they seem hungry? And then, two weeks in, a month in, they start to realize, "Wow, this is a lot more than I thought." Like, "I thought I wanted this drive." But you're putting me through the ringer, Coach, and I'm dead here.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of them go through that as freshmen.

• 9:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Freshmen are like rookies in the pros and they look for ways out because they don't see gratification right away. And these young people today, they want it now. You know, they don't want to start at the bottom and work the way up. They want to start in the middle and get up in two weeks.

• 9:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  So it's...

• 9:20Lewis Howes?

  They want to score 25 in the first game. They want to be dunking from the free throw line in the game, everything, right?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  And it's the entitled generation. Everybody talks about it. The entitlement of this generation. So you have to show them where it's going to take them. You have to point it out to them. Look, this is where you're going to get.

• 9:35Lewis Howes?

  How do you get people to buy into a system or a belief of the whole season as opposed to, you know, one game where you're going to score a bunch? How do you instill that belief in people?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Well, a lot of them want to transfer right away because they're not getting, you know, if they're not starting right away...

• 9:52Lewis Howes?

  They're not getting the playing time.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  And they're not getting, and it's more, it comes today, believe it or not, from the parents. The parents really, they call and say, "How come he's not playing?" And he's going to play and he's going to be terrific, but it's going to take a little time. A perfect example is this young man I coached, Russ Smith. I called him Rusticulous. Didn't play as a freshman. He knew he wasn't going to play as a freshman because I told him. He wanted to transfer right away. And he said, I said, "Well, I told you you weren't going to play as a freshman. There are better people ahead of you." And the dad fortunately knew me real well. I was the Knick coach. He said, "Russ, you're not transferring." And he asked me, "Is he going to play next year?" I said, "Well, he's going to have to change his practice habits if he wants to play." He changed. Now, nobody recruited

• 10:37Speaker 01

  him out of high school. No big time schools. Well, he ended up a first-team college All-American.

• 10:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  First team.

• 10:44Lewis Howes?

  Sophomore or later?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  His senior year.

• 10:46Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Wins a national championship, goes to China and scores 61 a game in China.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  So he had a fantastic career, played in two Final Fours and won a national championship, but he wanted to leave as a freshman.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. It's the delayed gratification is what we should be looking for.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you have to understand the journey you're about to take. And it's the last stop is where you want to get to, but you're going to have to work along the way.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  What's the speech you give the first day everyone's together? What's the message you send to people about the season and the journey, especially in college?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I meet with them individually first. And I tell them, I'm gonna get you to where you wanna go. And most of them, it's the NBA.

• 11:33Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  And if it's a realistic thing, I say, I'm gonna get you there. But you're gonna have to put the time and effort. Because you're not ready to get there. So, I put them through in-between classes. I put them through the player development workout.

• 11:49Lewis Howes?

  Physical workout?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  It's 45 minutes of offensive basketball. It's what you need to become a pro. But you're gonna need it five days a week, for as many years as I can, that you need to get there.

• 12:01Lewis Howes?

  This is before practice?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Before, in-between classes.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  Just like ball handling skills?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  We'll do shooting, three-point shooting.

• 12:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  We'll do one-on-one moves. With the ball, without the basketball, and by that I mean, you'll move without the ball, you'll catch it, you'll rip it, you'll ball fake, you'll shot fake, I'll put you through all the drills necessary.

• 12:20Lewis Howes?

  The fundamentals.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  The fundamentals of becoming a really well-rounded basketball player.

• 12:25Lewis Howes?

  Not just an athletic phenom, which a lot of these guys are, they're probably just athletic freaks.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, great athletes don't necessarily make it anymore in the pros. Because now centers, back when I first started coaching Patrick Ewing, you had Hakeem Olajuwon, you had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, you had all the great centers in the game from Moses Malone. Today, those guys, and Shaquille O'Neal's probably the last dominating one. Today, the 6'11", 7 footers are shooting threes.

• 12:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  You know, you have Cousins shooting threes, you have Durant at 6'11" shooting threes. So the game has changed dramatically, and these guys, no matter how tall they are, they want a perimeter game, and that's what you try and teach them.

• 13:03Lewis Howes?

  Why do they want that? Because they wanna score more?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Because they watch it on tele, they watch it on TV, they wanna be Kevin Durant.

• 13:08Lewis Howes?

  It's not as physical, it's not as demanding on the body, you're not getting fouled every other play, probably.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  It's more glamorous.

• 13:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right. Wow, and when was the last time you were coaching in the NBA, was it 2000?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Last time I was coaching was 17 years ago with the Celtics. 18 years ago, and that was a different experience in the Knicks.

• 13:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Because I took over a program that won 14 games. Got it to 36, 38, but I was unhappy, I was also president of the Boston Celtics. And that was my big mistake. I shouldn't have taken on that dual.

• 13:43Lewis Howes?

  You're president and the head coach.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Well, I wasn't ready to be an administrator, I wasn't ready to run an organization. And it took away from my feelings as a coach. I was making trades based on saving money. And as a coach, your job is to win. You can't pay attention to those other things.

• 14:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you've got to be working with the president saying, this is what I need to win. Give me this.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Right, not worried about saving the owner money or the salary cap.

• 14:09Lewis Howes?

  That's challenging. Wow, what did you enjoy more, coaching college athletes or professionals?

• 14:16Speaker 01

  It's gonna sound a little trite, but wherever we won is what I enjoyed.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  I like that answer.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Because we won with the Knicks, we won the Atlantic Division Championship. We won at Providence, Kentucky, Boston University. But we lost with the Celtics. So I didn't enjoy the last part of it, we lost. When you build a winning culture, the team gets along better. Everybody strives for the common goal of winning. And it all comes together when you win. Your relationships are better with the players. When you lose, it goes the other way on you.

• 14:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Especially with professional sports.

• 14:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what's the greatest lesson you've learned through losing?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Well, failure is fertilizer. You know, there's no question about it, to help other things grow. And you understand the steps, where you make your mistakes, and what not to do going down the road. Give you a prime example, I coached this young man, Bill Cartwright, with the Knicks. Seven foot center, great guy. And we had to have him for this game. We're on a huge winning streak with the Knicks. And I called him, he missed walkthrough. He said, "Coach, I'm sick." He had, "I've gotta stay in bed, I'm hoping to make the game." I said, "Hey, Bill, you gotta make this game. We need you." And he said, "Coach, I just need to relax." I said, "Okay." Then all of a sudden, I told the trainer, I said, "Look,

• 15:40Speaker 01

  we need to get him in, get a shot from the doctor to stop his stomach problems. Get him in early and get him in." And Bill wanted rest.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  So you have to be your own messenger. I now sent the trainer to go to him, get him into the city. He's got to travel from New Jersey into the city, 45 minute drive. He wasn't up to it. He wanted to stay in bed. He gets him in and my whole thing was to see the doctor, get the right medication to help him feel better for the game.

• 16:10Lewis Howes?

  Give him a chance.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  To play the game. Bill took it as I didn't believe him that he was sick because I wasn't my own messenger. I sent the trainer. Trainer now relays the message. Hey, Bill, coach wants you in the city right away to see the doctor. He didn't say why. We needed him. I needed you, big Bill, to play the game the whole bit. So now he gets, he's upset and I couldn't figure out why. Two games go by. I said, Bill, what's the problem? We're not on the same page here. He said, you didn't believe that I was sick. Of course I believed. I had to have the doctor see you right away so you could play in this game. He said, well, that's not the way I took it. I took it that you didn't believe I was sick and you wanted me to go see the doctor because you didn't believe it.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  So you have to be your own messenger and especially in the pros. In the pros, you have a problem, you can't let it fester. You deal with it right away.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  And you don't understand the communication. You got to let them talk. You have to be a great listener to be a pro coach.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  You have to because the guy's, he's not playing and he wants to know why he's not playing. You've got to be a listener and you got to explain it to him. College, you don't necessarily have to do that.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  You don't have to listen as much?

• 17:22Speaker 01

  You're sort of a little bit more authoritative. You're the father figure.

• 17:26Lewis Howes?

  It's your way. Yeah, yeah. But in the pros, every, there's so many personalities and everyone's got an opinion and everyone, you need them to play for you as well. So you've got to listen to them.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  No question.

• 17:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Well, I wonder what happened with the, you don't have to comment on this, but the Kawhi Leonard situation. Is he, does he not communicate or is he not?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Well, he's a, he's a quiet young man from what I understand, but it all depends what age group you are. I remember asking Red Auer back. A big question, the legendary coach of the Celtics, I said, Red, we're losing and these guys, they just don't pay attention as well. Says this to me, he said, you know what you should do? What I used to do, when I coached Bill Russell and Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn. I said, what's that? He said, you're always sitting the guys down, diagramming plays, moving your magnetic pieces around. Why don't you let them stand up in the huddle and say, like I did, hey Cous, what do you think we should run? Hablicek, what do you think we should run? Hey Bill, what do you think we should run? Let them come up with the play.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  So the next game we're playing the Lakers at home, I said, well, try it. I sit the guys down, I don't stand up. They're exhausted because we've been in a great game. And I turned to Antoine Walker, who I coached in college, Walter McCarty, Ron Mercer, three guys I had with Kentucky are playing for me with the Celtics. And I said, guys, what do you think we should run? We're down one, so many seconds left in the game, what do you think we should run?

• 18:55Lewis Howes?

  Did their jaws drop? Because they're like, what you asked?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  They didn't answer me. They're staring at me, finally. I said to Antoine, Antoine, what do you think we should run? He says a profanity, which I won't mention, he says, Coach, you get paid to coach, we get paid to play, you come up with the damn play. We're tired.

• 19:12Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  So I called Red that night and I said, Red, you want to hear the answer they gave me? He started laughing hysterically, he said, wait till they get a little older, they won't shut up, they'll come up, all come up with different plays.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  They'll all want to be the coach.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  How the hell will we know? We're tired, you come up with the play.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  So the most challenging place was when you were losing?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, losing in the pros, because there's so many things that go into it. When you lose in the pros and you're out of the playoffs, they all go for stats. They want their stats because it's money time. And that's what they're based on.

• 19:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  At that point, they're not going to make the playoffs. So if you're not in the playoffs, they lose their interest and they want their stats.

• 19:53Lewis Howes?

  They want to shoot the ball, it's not as much of a team.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Winning is not as important when you're out of the playoffs.

• 19:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I'm curious, you know, as a coach, you're either a hero or the loser and people are raving about you or the next day they hate you. Right? As a city or an alumni, whatever it may be. How have you learned to let go of what other people think about you? Whether you're winning or losing?

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Well, today it's difficult. My son's the head coach in Minnesota. And he gets on, he reads everything and his wife reads everything. And it's like

• 20:26Lewis Howes?

  In the media, you mean?

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yes, well, it's if you go on the internet and you could have, he's in Minnesota and you could have Wisconsin fans, Ohio State fans, Michigan State fans, get on the internet and just kill you. And it's like injecting yourself with poison almost. So you've got to have blinders on. You can't lose focus as a coach. Your job is to motivate the team, put them in the best situation where they have a chance of winning. Give them everything you can from analytics to scouting, to preparation, to player development. Give them everything you can. And you can't lose focus. You have to have blinders on. If you pay attention to the internet, if you pay attention to what the media is saying, it opens up Pandora's box.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  And it's a big negative. And we have right now a president that reads everything and listens to everything and watches everything and then turns around and

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  Responds.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  And responds.

• 21:20Lewis Howes?

  Reacts, yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  You just can't be that way as a coach. You have to have blinders on and focus on, on the game at hand, which is winning. The next game, player development. And if you don't have that, if you start getting distracted like that, you, you lose your ability to win.

• 21:36Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. How did you learn how to not let it affect you emotionally? You know, during any, any time during the season, when you're on a winning streak or when you're on a losing streak and everyone's against you, how do you, how do you put the blinders on?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Fortunately for me, it's happened only once in my life with the Boston Celtics. Outside of that, we've

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  You've won.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  We've won.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  That's gotta be nice.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Well, it's, you don't win right away because you, you're taking over programs that are down. And you understand them. And you explain to the, to the fans, this is what it's going to take. This is the period of time. And you hopefully, you, you come through earlier than expected.

• 22:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  And that's a key. But you tell them right up front, this is what it's going to take.

• 22:15Lewis Howes?

  It'll take some time.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  It's going to take a couple of years of recruiting.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  And then if you get the, the one great player that turns it around quicker, because in basketball, unlike football, The one player can turn it around for you.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 22:27Speaker 01

  You know, you get Michael Jordan to come to the Bulls, you get Jamal Mashburn to go to Kentucky. You get the one guy, you get LeBron to go back to Cleveland. And then it takes a couple more players to get involved with that one player. And then you got to turn it around.

• 22:41Lewis Howes?

  You got a team, yeah. Mashburn, he was good.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  He was good, and he turned around the process right away for us. Interesting footnote to that, Jamal Mashburn's been my business partner for over thirty years. Yeah, we're, we have a company called MAP, which is Mashburn, Abar, and Pitino. And we've been together for over thirty years.

• 22:59Lewis Howes?

  No way, what do you guys do in that company?

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Well, we own car dealerships together, that's probably the biggest thing that we have. And a lot of other side businesses.

• 23:08Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  And you're involved in horse racing as well, is that right?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Well, Jamal's not involved in that, that's a hobby with me. It's a losing hobby.

• 23:17Lewis Howes?

  It's a fun hobby, right?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  It is.

• 23:20Lewis Howes?

  You don't really win much money on that, because you're spending so much on the investment, right?

• 23:24Speaker 01

  You don't win much at all, it's, it's, it's like going into a casino. You may want to play blackjack or craps for a half hour, but you're gonna lose.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow, are you pretty part of the Derby then, is that what?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  I was until I left Louisville. I went to like twenty-four to twenty-five straight Derbies.

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  And had two horses run in the Kentucky Derby.

• 23:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow, anyone win?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  One finished fourth, and then went on to finish second in the Preakness, second in the Belmont.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay, and so let's talk about Louisville now, because you've got a book coming out talking about your, your story about what's been happening over the last couple of years. Why did you leave Louisville?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Well, I was fired.

• 24:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  So that's why I didn't want to leave. Basically, what happened is this, a scam artist is trying to negotiate payments from Adidas and these other people in the room. And he's trying to scam these people into giving them money to try and buy these athletes.

• 24:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, give Adidas to give him money to then pay to the athletes.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Athletes' parents.

• 24:27Lewis Howes?

  Parents, gotcha.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  So, he mentions my name as someone who's a big shot with Adidas. And we'll call Pitino up and get him to... Call Adidas and get us more money. Well, he's BSing them. And because I would never go for any of that. But the Southern District of New York, they're being wiretapped. The FBI is there. They're the people he's trying to scam. They obviously indict him and they mentioned my name and also Jim Laranaga, the coach of Miami. And the Southern District of New York puts us in the complaint. Not a shred of evidence with us, just a scam artist mentioning our name.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Well, we get called in, my athletic director, who's the best in the game, gets fired. Five minutes before me, I get fired. I'm there 16 years. I'm asked to go back. They said, will you resign? I said, of course not. I didn't do anything wrong. No explanation, no story or anything. I was told to clean out my office. I said, well, I have to speak to my team. And I had a very emotional meeting with my team. And by the time I went upstairs, they were changing the locks on my door.

• 25:40Lewis Howes?

  No way. That quick?

• 25:42Speaker 01

  That quick. And I will say this, this is not the University of Louisville or the university that I love. This was a new board of trustees. And what I go into in the book is this board of, this was all started at the governor's level. He got rid of the board of trustees at Louisville that was very loyal to the ADN, to myself and the athletic programs. He put in a new group of trustees. I think out of the 12, 13 people, only two had any affiliation with the University of Louisville. The rest were people like Papa John, the pizza guy. And then totally foreign to athletics and to us.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  And they just, we're bringing in different people. We're doing it over and you're all gone.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow. There was no explanation? You didn't get a chance to talk about it or?

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Well, the other things happened. You know, I have no problem with anybody who wants to change coaches. But don't accuse me of something that I'm totally innocent of. If you want to change my coaching because of things that happen, I'm fine with that. Perfectly fine with it. A new CEO comes in and he wants to change the people working and they want to bring in his own people. That's fine. Do it in a dignified way. Do it with class. Don't do it the way they did it.

• 27:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  So the book explains, it's called Pitino, My Story. It takes, there are a couple scandals that we deal with. We talk about the shoe companies and their influence on the college business. It's half memoir of my 40 years in coaching. And it's also dealing with the things I've had to deal with in the last.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  The business of college athletics and what's happening in it. How much of the shoe companies play a major role in the young athletes' lives?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  The shoe companies aren't corrupt. You know, I don't want to sound like they're corrupt. They go out and they pay Ohio State 200 million. They pay UCLA.

• 27:41Lewis Howes?

  Nike, Adidas, Under Armour.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Under Armour. They pay.

• 27:44Lewis Howes?

  Adidas official.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  They buy these franchises.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  The schools, universities are their franchise. So they buy Louisville for 180 million.

• 27:51Lewis Howes?

  For a certain amount of years, 10 years or something.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Right. They buy Notre Dame. They buy, and that's their franchise. So they're investing 150, 200 million to this university. They get all the marketing products back. They get to market their name. And now everybody identifies Louisville as an Adidas school. So Adidas wants Louisville to win. So at the lower level, Adidas, the grassroots level, where the high school kids are, they're paying these AAU programs, not 150 million, they're paying them 150,000. And these AAU programs now represent Nike, Under Armour, and Adidas, just like the colleges. So they're being paid at the lower level. The colleges are being paid at the higher level.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  And anytime you throw around that much money, their interests are in that company. So now everybody wants the Adidas school to win, the Under Armour school to win, the Nike school to win. And it's not about room, board, books, and tuition anymore.

• 28:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  There's a lot of money involved here. And that's what the NCAA is dealing with right now. When this scandal broke. Adidas was paying these athletes and they were paying the athletes through these scam artists.

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  And the scam artists won a.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Because it was it wasn't it was legal. It was more legal, I guess, through a scam artist than because you couldn't do it through a coach.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Well, it's not legal. You can't pay. You can't funnel money to an athlete.

• 29:18Lewis Howes?

  Anyway, doesn't matter how many steps it goes.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  It's been going on. I never heard it through shoe companies. I heard it through agents. You hear stories. An agent got to a family, paying the family, but you have no proof of this. It's just all gossip what you hear out there. But never did it come from the shoe company directly until the until the scandal broke.

• 29:41Lewis Howes?

  Really? So the shoe companies were starting to pay or this one company was.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Adidas.

• 29:46Lewis Howes?

  Adidas was paying.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  And it's this one person who right now got indicted. But he said, I'm representing Adidas. What I did is against NCAA rules, but it's not against my rules. You know, his job is go out there and sign the best athletes. And so he wasn't doing it to benefit the University of Louisville. He was doing it to benefit Adidas.

• 30:09Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Wow. How have you been handling all this over the last couple of years?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Well, I'm a routine guy, so I'm used to getting up at 5:30, getting in the office at 6:30, doing my four individual instructions, getting my exercise at lunchtime, having a coaches meeting, getting ready for practice, calling the recruits at night. And then all of a sudden it comes crashing down and it's gone. Forty one years.

• 30:34Lewis Howes?

  Sixteen years in the same school too.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Right. Forty one years in coaching and it's over. And you wake up the next morning and it's 5:30 and you have no place to go, nothing to do. You move to a different town. It was very difficult, but bitterness gets you nowhere. We're all given gifts.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  And it's what you do with it, and bitterness is not a gift. So, I'm into motivation. And what I'm going to do now is I'm gonna go around to speak to about twenty colleges in September and October, watch them practice, motivate their teams, talk about what teams have to do to get to a final four, what sacrifices they must make, how you have to play for the name on the front, not the name on the back, for all of you to get where you wanna go. Wow. And then talk about how individually they can get where they want to go if they put in the right work, the correct work. And talk about the right analytics to them. It's not just how many points you score per game that the pros are interested in.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  And talk about that with them and start out with people I've coached in the game, like Patrick Ewing's at Georgetown, Mick Cronin, who was under me, is at Cincinnati. And go visit those schools first and then open it up to some other places. Yeah, so that's the path right now. That's the right now. The book's gonna come out September the fourth. I'll do some things with that for a couple of weeks. And then I do a lot of motivational speaking to companies. But I'm really interested in learning as well. And while I motivate the players and the teams, I get to watch practice, discuss with the coaches afterwards what I liked and what I didn't like. But also, I get to learn. Yeah. Because when you're coaching it from twenty-four years of age to sixty-four, Wow.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  You know, you haven't learned as much as you need to learn. So now I get to watch some other coaches. What's the thing you think you need to learn the most?

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Different ways to do things. I have my system, our defenses, our offenses. And I get a chance to experience different offenses and different defenses. And see what I like, see what I don't like. Gotcha. And do you still wanna coach again? I'm not sure about that. I love teaching, love motivating. But I'm not sure if I want to coach again. The way I left at Louisville, there's a hurt inside.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  That I can let go, but living in Kentucky, I wanted to die at Kentucky.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  I really did. I loved living, I loved living in Lexington, I loved living in Louisville. And it was part of my, my passion. And so it hurt, and I don't know if I want to start. I'd have to have the right athletic director, the right goals. You know, if somebody said, you're the guy for us, we want to go to a final four, but we want to do it the right way. And we believe in your system. I may change my mind.

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. You never know. Yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  So, but you don't know if that opportunity is gonna...

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  Hard to find that.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  And where are you living now?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Live half the time in Miami. I'm out here for, in, in the San Diego area for a month. And then I'm going to go to New York for four, five months.

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Okay. You like Miami?

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Well, it's my home.

• 33:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  I have two children there, so I get a chance to, to spend time with them. And that's your legacy. Your children are your legacy.

• 33:53Lewis Howes?

  Sure, yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  It's not the amount of games you win.

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  That's true, but you've had an incredible career as a coach too, so there's a lot to be celebrated there. What's the difference in your mind between a great CEO, or a great player, or a great person, pursuing their dreams, and someone who misses the mark of achieving greatness?

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Well, I know what stops greatness, and ego stops greatness. I call it edging greatness out, ego. In a spiritual sense, ego is edging God out.

• 34:27Lewis Howes?

  Yep, I'd like that.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, ego's always, I'm not talking about confidence. You have to be a confident person. But ego really gets you to, you, you think you've arrived, you think you know it all, you stop learning, you stop listening. Learning and listening are important for great leaders. Great leaders have to listen, and they have to continue to learn, and surround themselves with people that are better than them. At least, and that type of humility, whether they are or not, you have to believe that they are when you hire them, that they have the ability to, to help you. And I've had 31 college assistants move on to become head coaches.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  That's because I hire people...

• 35:12Speaker 01

  That I've learned from really terrific coaches. And I built a bridge and we've all crossed over that bridge together. That's a great legacy as well, but I listened to them. They wanted to listen to me, but I wanted to listen to them. And I think great leaders have to be, have to have that ability to listen, learn. And then you communicate from there. And I look at leaders right now that we have in our country. I'm not talking about the president, everybody else knocks him, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna subscribe to that. I'm talking about you can't be a great leader unless you're humble. You have to have humility. You have to be eager to learn and you have to be willing to listen. Those are the qualities you have to have to be a great leader.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  And then you have to be able to motivate your team. How do you motivate? Well, I do it differently than some. I do it collectively and I do it individually. I constantly meet with the people. So I get a sense of their purpose. I wanna know what they're all about. And that's the way I can turn on their switch. Yeah. But in order to do that, I call you in. I said, tell me what you're thinking. Tell me where you are in your life. Tell me where you wanna go. And I sit back and I listen. I always say, listen four times to the amount you speak. And then I find out in recruiting, especially if I listen, what to say and what not to say. And I always remember a great recruiting story. I was with Billy Donovan.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  He was my assistant at Kentucky. And we went on a recruiting trip. And he kept saying to me, Coach, we get this kid. We're going to another final four. We just came off a final four. We gotta get this kid. We gotta get this kid. His name was Deuce Ford from Memphis. And I went in there and started speaking about the Roman Empire of college basketball Kentucky. The Roman Empire. Twenty-four thousand people every night. You don't live in a dormitory at Kentucky. You live in the Wildcat Lodge. Fifty-six All-Americans. Greatest facilities ever. We're on TV every single game. The Roman Empire. And then forty-five minutes later, I noticed that everybody had their legal pad out with questions on it. But I went nonstop forty-five minutes talking about this Roman Empire.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  At the end, I said, ma'am, you must have questions to the mom. Dad, you must have questions. And they answered me one by one, high school coach and player. No, Coach, I had seven questions. You've answered them all. Dad, same thing, the high school coach. No, Coach, you explained the style of play. How you gonna play? How you gonna use them? You've answered all my questions. Even the girlfriend of the athlete. No. She didn't have a question, nobody did. We walked out and Billy, we got in the car and said, Coach, that was brilliant. They bought into it. I said, no way, Billy. I blew. How many years were recruiting that young man? He said, two. I said, I blew it all in 45 minutes. Wow. He said, why? I said, I never listened. I never formed the bond with those people.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I never built trust. All I did was speak about the Roman Empire. And I never forget Billy's response. He said, Coach, you're reading too many of those motivational books. He said, we're fine. We've been leading with that kid for two years. We didn't make the cut. Wow. We didn't even make his top five schools. The next day, I went into Brownsville, Tennessee, and Billy said, Coach, we're gonna cancel this one. This young man, Tony, is down to Memphis, Tennessee, and LSU. Let's not go in. We're not in his top five. I said, no, let's go in. I walked in, two brothers who played Division II basketball, mom, dad, girlfriend, high school coach. I walked in and I said, ma'am, I see from Tony's application

• 38:56Speaker 01

  that he wants to go into communication. Ah, he can't go into communication. He needs to be like his brothers, go into business. He has to learn all about business. She went on a five-minute dissertation about that. I asked the two brothers a question. I said, you know, a lot of schools are recruiting Tony as a two-guard. I'm gonna play him as a combo guard, little point as well. They go into, if he doesn't learn to play the point, he's never gonna be a pro. Each of them, they speak for 10 minutes. I sit back and listen and looking over at Billy and he's, he's realizing I didn't talk about the facilities, didn't talk about the academics, I didn't talk about individual instruction, nothing. I asked the data question. He talked for five minutes. I took out my clipboard to the coach and I said, I watched you play last year.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  You ran a great three-point play for Tony. Can you diagram that play for me? Mm-hmm. He diagrams the play. An hour and a half have gone by and I haven't talked about anything about the virtues of Kentucky, nothing. Billy points at his wife and says, we gotta go. Gotta catch a flight. And the mom looks at me and says, you know, Coach, I have to apologize. I haven't even offered Janie to drink or eat. We're gonna have a barbecue. Would you like to stay? Now, we have to catch a flight. Right. And Billy goes, I say, we'd love to. We stay another hour and a half. We miss our flight. We rent the, we go to the airport, we rent the car, we drive to Lexington. I think it was five hours we drive from Brownsville, Tennessee.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  And Billy goes, what was that all about? You didn't talk about the weight room? You didn't talk about the lodge? Nothing. I said, Billy, we're at the University of Kentucky. They know all about us. All I did was, we're in the hunt for that young man. The next weekend, he visited with his entire family, everybody in that room. The high school coach said it was the best visit they had out of 13 schools that came in. All I did was listen, laugh, and find out what not to say in that meeting. Had the barbecue, had a meal. Deuce fought. The young man I lost out on, unfortunately blew out his ACL, transferred schools. Was a good player at LSU. Think he went from Memphis to LSU.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Turned out okay, not a pro. Tony Delk, who went on that visit, who I listened to in that meeting, went on and won a national championship, and he was the MVP of the 96 national championship. Played 11 years in the NBA. Wow. All by walking in that room and forming a bond, building a trust by listening and finding out what not to say. Wow, that's a great story. And now, do you think the key to recruiting is listening? I think you have to find out what they're looking for. What makes them tick, what they're excited about. What, what, if they want to play right away, if they want to be in a certain style, if they want to have the comforts of being able to get in the car four hours and go see their son play. You find out if distance is a factor.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  You find, you find out all the things by listening. So when you walk out of that room, you know what you have to overcome. If distance is a factor, and you have to overcome that, you have to sell other things to the families. So you know where you stand by listening. Was there ever a moment when you?

• 42:10Lewis Howes?

  Recruited someone, you got them to sign and they were coming. They're already committed, they're there. And for whatever reason, you knew that you were off in the way that you communicated. Not saying you were out of integrity or lied or anything, but you painted a picture or spoke into the things that maybe they weren't thinking about. But you got them to commit. And then realized, you know what? This probably isn't going to work out. Like because you didn't either sell them or speak into the thing that they wanted the most. And then it didn't work out. Was there ever a time like that?

• 42:42Speaker 01

  I think you sometimes you feel bad when you say this. Am I going to play as a freshman? And I know I have two players that are seniors ahead of this young man. And I say, you're going to have the ability to challenge those two seniors. And if you're better, you're going to beat them out. But deep down, I know they're not going to beat them out. They know my system. They've played in that system. But I am being honest with saying, you'll have the chance to beat them out. And if you do, you'll play. But deep down, I know you're not going to beat them out.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  You don't think, yeah. Did anyone ever do that? Is there ever a guy that a freshman that did beat them out and they came back and surprised you?

• 43:24Speaker 01

  No, because our system is very complicated. It's based on a lot of defensive principles that you have to know. And maybe if you're into January, you're into league play, maybe you have a shot. You're going to get your playing time.

• 43:37Lewis Howes?

  But you're just not going to start.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  But to beat those two guys out, it's going to be difficult.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they know the system.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  So much. It's like a rookie quarterback in the NFL. Even though you're, you have all, all the talent, all the skills to probably throw it harder, better than the guy ahead of you, he knows all the schemes.

• 43:56Lewis Howes?

  What's more important, recruiting or having the right plays in a game?

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Well, if you recruit great players, you're going to have a great program. If you recruit great players that have a great work ethic, you're going to have a great program. If you recruit great players with a poor work ethic, you're going to probably be overrated. So you've got to get great players that have a great work ethic. If you can combine those two things, you're going to make it and you're going to make it big.

• 44:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  So recruiting is a big part of it, but you have to recruit people with a strong work ethic in order to get where you want to go.

• 44:35Lewis Howes?

  Was there ever a time in your coaching where you were in your own way? And you realized, man, I just need to get out of my way and let these guys play?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Sometimes you overcoach. That could be a hindrance to a team.

• 44:46Lewis Howes?

  And they're overthinking and then they're not just loose.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Yes, very much so. And you could be, you want to prepare them, but I call it, pressure is your ally. Everybody loves pressure. You wake up in the morning, you love pressure, you can't wait to get going. It's a big game. You're going to get the most out of your abilities, either as an athlete or a coach. You're going to get the most out of it. Stress is your enemy. You want no part of stress. So you've got to make sure you don't stress your players out. And you want to put pressure on them, but don't stress them out.

• 45:19Lewis Howes?

  What's, how do you create pressure and not, and eliminate stress?

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Well, when you take, oh, we're going to get ready to play Duke. It's the Elite Eight game.

• 45:28Lewis Howes?

  Big game.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  It is a big game. And this is go to Final Four. And if you start building Duke up to such a level where the players feel now, now you want, you want to build them up so you realize that.

• 45:43Lewis Howes?

  They play hard against them, yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  You have to reach a certain level to beat this team, but you don't want to build them up that much where you don't, players start to have what I call darkness of doubt. That they.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  We can never beat these guys.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's stress there. So you have to build them up by showing them their abilities, but this is what it's going to take to beat them. We're going to win this game and this is what we have to do. Don't leave any doubt that we're going to win this game.

• 46:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Remember the young man whose knee blew out? His leg, shin blew out. Kevin Ware. Right in the middle of the Duke game, his bone came out of his leg.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Almost like Joe Theismann, same injury.

• 46:23Lewis Howes?

  When was this?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  This was 2013, when we won the championship.

• 46:28Lewis Howes?

  Is this when the guy landed and the leg came out?

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 46:31Lewis Howes?

  Is that your player?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  That was my player.

• 46:32Lewis Howes?

  That's right. I remember now because the floor came down a little bit over there, right? And he was running the floor and you guys were on the bench.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  So we're all crying.

• 46:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  We go at halftime, the score is tied.

• 46:42Lewis Howes?

  That was so.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  And I had to get my team back because they were, we were all crying. I was crying. We're in the locker room and I said, look, we gotta get ourselves together.

• 46:52Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  And I had to come up with a story to, almost to distract my team at this point. And I said, guys, I've never mentioned this to you, but we're within a day of 25 years ago, when Christian Laettner beat me with that shot, Duke-Kentucky. So here we are playing Duke, 25 years ago to today.

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  And I'm telling them this story to get their minds off of Kevin Ware. And I said, I've never talked about that shot. It's bothered me, but here we are playing the same team 25 years later for the Final Four. Same thing at stake. How eerie is that? And now they're all looking at me. I said, but you know what, guys? They beat us with 2.3 seconds when Grant Hill threw that pass to Christian Laettner. He made that turnaround shot. I said, now it's tie score and Kevin's in that hospital. He's gonna be fine. But I want to, I need to erase Christian Laettner's shot from my mind. There's only one way. And they're all looking at me. I said, we need to go out there right now and not only beat Duke at the buzzer,

• 47:55Speaker 01

  we need to go out there and kick Duke's ass by 20, 25 points. We need to go out there and just lay it on them.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  So now I've got their attention and now they're fired up. I said, then we're gonna go to the hospital, we're gonna visit Kevin, and we're gonna take him to the Final Four. Let's go get this. And we went crazy in the locker room.

• 48:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  And we went out there and beat them by 20 points.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh, I love this. Wow.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  I didn't, by the way, I didn't erase Christian like the shot, it's still in my mind, but, but we went out there and beat him by 20 points.

• 48:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's an inspiring story. Well, I think also, I mean, I remember that now, gosh, I forgot that was your team. I remember that and just being like so sad for that player because, one, it was terrifying, it was scary to watch, but just like, man, he's doing so well, going to the final four, but it was great to see the team rally behind that.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:44Lewis Howes?

  It was probably, it almost gave a bigger boost to them as well. Like, we gotta play for our teammate now, right?

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, no question.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  And then they went.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  But they had, we had to erase because we were all around him.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  Oh my god, it was right by your, it was right by your bench.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went to lift him up and then I looked at it.

• 48:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh no.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  And I said, and now the trainer threw a towel over it and everybody was crying, everybody was sick and, and then I had to get their mind off of that, off of that sight, the experience.

• 49:09Lewis Howes?

  How did you get out of that?

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Well, I, I knew Kevin was going to be fine, but it was traumatic. It was, it was something I've never seen before.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  On TV, national TV.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen ACLs and I, but I've.

• 49:21Lewis Howes?

  Not a bone popping out of a leg.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Out of your skin.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. That was crazy.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  It was right in front of the bench.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Right there.

• 49:32Lewis Howes?

  That is crazy experience. Have you ever seen anything else crazier than that moment?

• 49:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Like on the basketball court, was there anything else?

• 49:39Speaker 01

  I've had players blow out their, their ACL, you've seen that, but nothing in, in that bigger game, in that bigger moment.

• 49:46Lewis Howes?

  That type of injury.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yep, and it was funny because the NCAA took their championship away and they took the banner down. And I, I tell my players, my players now are suing the NCAA.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Good for them.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  For defamation, for taking the banner down. I said, guys, sue them, that's fine, but understand, the championship cannot be erased and taken away.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  They can take a banner down, they can take the money away, but they can't take your championship away. And I said, that's, that's part of history.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  So don't ever lose that. And we, we talk about it all the time.

• 50:17Lewis Howes?

  How does that affect you when they took it away?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  It's unjust because what went on in that dormitory was ugly because it was my brother-in-law's dormitory. I named it after him, I lost him in 9/11. And it was, what went on in that dormitory was not right. It was repulsive.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  But it was one person doing it behind closed doors. To this day, people say, oh, this person knew it, this person. Six of my players on the basketball team did not know what was going on. My nephews, the son of Billy Minardi, who I lost in 9/11, they did not know what was going on. My assistant coaches said they did not know it was going on, and I did not know it was going on.

• 50:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Security in the dormitory did not know what was going on. But it was wrong, and we had to pay a price, but not a championship.

• 51:08Lewis Howes?

  Why is the whole team, or why is the whole championship taken away for that?

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Because they, they think, they said it was an extra benefit, which is absurd. It was a strip party and it dealt with sex and it had nothing to do with performance. They weren't taking steroids. They weren't, it's not a performance enhancing in any way. It's an act that should never have taken place.

• 51:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Uh, should never.

• 51:30Lewis Howes?

  But not taking away a championship.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 51:31Lewis Howes?

  Guys can get kicked out, things like that, right?

• 51:33Speaker 01

  No question about it, but it's, it's, the NCAA, which I'm part of, is run by committees. And this committee said, these acts are repulsive. We're, we're taking as much as we can away from you. And it's absurd. You can't take championships away from kids who've earned it and deserved it. Can't do that. And I keep telling my, my players that all the time. I said, you didn't lose it. They took a batter down. Always remember that. You're champions. You've earned it. You did the work on the court.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the way.

• 52:05Lewis Howes?

  You didn't take money or something like that, yeah?

• 52:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:08Lewis Howes?

  What are your thoughts on paying student athletes? At the big schools, whether football, basketball?

• 52:14Speaker 01

  They are paid.

• 52:15Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  They, they, they get their college scholarship. Then on top of that, if their families can't afford it, they get a Pell Grant. They can get up to $8,000 besides their scholarship.

• 52:26Lewis Howes?

  A year.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yes. Now. Through grant money. Yes. Billions of dollars are made with the NCAA tournament throughout the years. Billions. And the NCAA is just giving a scholarship and that. So here's why families cheat. So I'm a family and I'm from a poor family. I'm a great athlete.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  And I believe there's less than 10% of cheating that's going on in college athletics. Less than 10% in my opinion throughout my 40 years of experience. All sports. Well, let's just talk basketball for now. I think it's less than 10%. So what happens is somebody goes to the family, an agent goes to the family and says, look, here's $100,000, here's $50,000. You can go see your son play. Take flights and go see your son play and I want you to sign with me after it's done. So they know it's wrong. Why would they take it and jeopardize? Well, they say the school's making millions of dollars using my son. I can't even get on a plane and go see him play. Yeah. So I'm gonna take it.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  And they take it. Not thinking they're never gonna get caught. They go with that agent, but that's what happens in the game. Well, the golden goose is gonna get killed because now the pros in 2020, they're gonna go, they're gonna take away the one year. Right. So you don't have to go to college. You don't have to go to college. So you're gonna go from high school. To pros. Now here's the dilemma though. The high school kid today is getting a great education. See, the college kids that go for one year, they take online courses. They're out in seven months. They're not getting an education. They go to Duke, they go to Kentucky, they go to Louisville, they go to UCLA for less than a year. They're not getting a college education. Right, you're taking the basic classes, just getting by. And they're getting online and their interests of the NBA.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  But the high school kid has to get 16 core requirements and a certain grade point average to go to college and get a scholarship. Mm-hmm. So he's being educated at the high school level. To get in, to get into college. To get into college. But once you know that you're going to the pros, you're, you stop trying. Here's the dilemma. I'm a freshman now in high school and I overrate my abilities. I'm gonna be a pro. I'm not gonna study. I'm not more worried about these classes anymore. I'm going right to the pros. On top of it, if I don't make the pros, I'm gonna go to the G League. The minor league system, so I'm not gonna go anymore. So the colleges are killing the golden goose. They're now gonna get marginal basketball players.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  And who wants, who's gonna sell, who's gonna pay millions of dollars to these schools? If they're not getting the All-Stars, yeah. Everybody's going to the pros. True. So it's gonna be a watered-down product. But the colleges, they have to react and be proactive, but they're not. The NCAA is not proactive. What they should do now is, I should be able to pay you. Let you go market yourself, like the Olympic model. So let Rick Pitino, Louis, let's go market ourselves. We do commercials, we do signings, and we go out there and we make money while we're in college. Yeah. Like any other student can do. In the Olympics. Yes, so I wanna go, I wanna go market myself.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  I wanna do a commercial on TV while I'm in college playing ball. And I make fifty thousand dollars. Fine. Now, the wrestler can't do that, but I can do it. So while I'm in college, I'm making money and I'm not in a rush to get to the NBA. So you have to, and that's Condoleezza Rice said that. They should be able to market themselves. Right. And that's one of the proposals she came up with. Colleges are not proactive enough to let that happen. Why is that? They're gonna kill the golden goose. Because they got away with it with the one and done. But now, if kids go right away to the pros, college is gonna be watered down and TV is not gonna pay the NCAA millions of dollars anymore.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  So then on the best players, they're gone. They're gone, LeBron, Kobe, and they're gone. They go right, the great ones go right away. And then the ones that aren't great, but they think they're great. They immediately say, I'm going pro, I'm not gonna study. They're not gonna be able to get accepted into college.

• 56:49Lewis Howes?

  I'll go in the minor leagues, whatever.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  The G, it's called the G League.

• 56:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and just work there and develop for two years.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Right, like going to college.

• 56:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  There was one player this year that committed to Syracuse and instead of going to Syracuse, he went to the G League.

• 57:04Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:04Lewis Howes?

  For one year, right?

• 57:05Speaker 01

  One year.

• 57:06Lewis Howes?

  So you don't have to go to college, you just have to be one year removed.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:09Lewis Howes?

  From high school.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  But college has always been a good feeder program for the NBA.

• 57:14Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, you're playing every day, you're big arenas, yeah.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  But now they're gonna, they're gonna lose that.

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:21Lewis Howes?

  So if you were in charge of the NCAA and you had the decision to change it in a moment with how the rules to either players marketing themselves and making money on their own or paying beyond the grants, what would you?

• 57:37Speaker 01

  I wouldn't pay, I wouldn't pay athletes. I would let them sell themselves. I would let them make commercials, I would let them do signings, autograph signings. I would let them, and here's the problem that they're gonna get into down the road. So Louisville's an Adidas school. What happens if the young man wants to wear Nike?

• 57:59Speaker 01

  So you're gonna say, okay, you gotta go buy your Nike shoes then.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  They're not for free, but the contract says your players have to wear Adidas.

• 58:08Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  But the kid wants to wear Nike. They haven't run into that yet, and that's an interesting, the athlete has no rights when it comes to that, and it'll be interesting to see if, no, I wanna do my own Nike deal. So, and Nike'll pay me. It hasn't gotten to that yet.

• 58:24Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  But I do think they should be able to sell their likeness. I think they should be able to do commercials and basically stay in college longer than.

• 58:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, cuz you can't sell your likeness in college, right?

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Can't do anything, you can't do a commercial, you can't.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  Can you get a job?

• 58:39Speaker 01

  You can get a job, but.

• 58:42Lewis Howes?

  There's no time for a job.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 58:43Lewis Howes?

  Your full-time job is training.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  And then you don't get paid for that. That's where the challenge is, right?

• 58:51Speaker 01

  So Olympic athletes, they can, they can go out there, right? And make money?

• 58:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, sponsorships, other things like that, yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  So why, why can't the college athlete, that's the answer to keeping your talent and being proactive, is letting them do that.

• 59:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Lewis Howes?

  How do you support your mental health when going through kind of a bitter experience in life? How do you support your emotional and mental health to rise above everything that's happened?

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Well, my children didn't want me to write this book. They said, "Let it go, Dad. Let it go."

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  It's hard.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  And I said, "No, you know, I'm gonna write the book because I'm gonna tell the truth. Everything in this book is the truth."

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  As a head coach for 30-plus years, I have never given an athlete an illegal inducement. I don't believe in it. I think it's difficult to get people to work hard when you're given something illegally. Because they always have something on you. And you really can't be a leader of men that way. That's my belief. So, I've never done it that way. And here I'm being accused of cheating.

• 1:00:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's tough.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  And it's wrong. So, you have to fight for your reputation.

• 1:00:09Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  And I'll leave no stone unturned to fight for my reputation. Because I know I'm 100% innocent. Now, did I hire the wrong people? I take ownership for that. I take ownership. I've taken a lot of bows throughout the years for assistant coaches who've gone on to be head coaches. And I've gotten a lot of credit from my tree of coaches. So, I have to take the good with the bad. I've also hired two coaches I shouldn't have hired.

• 1:00:36Lewis Howes?

  Why were they hired?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Well, one was a player of mine. And I still believe in him. Something went wrong. I don't know what it was. He was involved in the, with the strippers and bringing women into that dormitory. He had great parents. He worked his butt off for me. He was a terrific young man. Something went wrong. Somebody got to that young man and derailed him.

• 1:01:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  And it's sad. It's sad for me as his mentor, as his leader, that he went the wrong way. And my heart breaks for him and his parents. The other young man, but he was taught to do the right things by his parents and me. The other young man was taught to do things the right way. Now, he got fired and he actually didn't get accused of doing anything illegal. He was fired for being at the wrong place and being part of something that could have gone the wrong way. So I take ownership for that. I hired them and they didn't do things the right way. And anytime you're the employer, you're the boss, the buck stops with you.

• 1:01:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  So I am responsible for them, but they were taught to do it the right way and I know that. So that's why I'll fight.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, forty years of hiring people, there's gonna be a couple, you know, people that make mistakes and do the wrong things.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yes, and they're big mistakes that cost a lot of people. You know, when something like that goes down, there are so many, the trainer's family, the equipment manager, so many support people and their families with children get hurt. It's not me, I've been coaching forty something years and the other people I feel so bad for. And the program, you know, I love the University of Louisville and I see the program get hurt really bothers me.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's tough, because it's, you know, it's only a few people that really, you know, made the situation worse for you, but the community as a whole, you know, the people that you know there, I'm sure you still have a good feeling about, right?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Oh, very much so. In the city, it's where I wanted to live. But, you know, as you look at it today, you have, once said you have the Southern District in New York and the FBI that mentioned my name. That's an awful thing to do without any evidence. And when you look at, well, why did you do that? When my lawyers said to them, they went and said, "You left this man blown up on the side of the road."

• 1:02:57Lewis Howes?

  No evidence.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  They coached the right way and he's, you know what their response was? We deal with collateral damage all the time. And I'm not saying that the prosecutors are corrupt or the FBI is corrupt. I'm saying, what are they doing? Trying to nail assistant coaches. This is the FBI. I mean, where? Do you know what it costs to wiretap someone today?

• 1:03:22Lewis Howes?

  No idea.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it can wind up millions of dollars.

• 1:03:26Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Because they have to, so if you're in, you're in a conversation with you, you're doing something illegal. And now you're in a conversation with your girlfriend or your wife. They have to turn it off. It's called minimizing. They also have to hire a private company to do the wiretapping. They don't do it themselves, the FBI. They hire a company to do it. So they have, suddenly they have to, this company now will contact the FBI and say, I have something. They'll immediately listen in. But then they're saying, he's on the phone with his girlfriend. They have to minimize, shut it off. It's hundreds of thousands of dollars and they will wiretap in these assistant coaches. And he's scam artists for two or three years.

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  We're wasting the skills of the FBI? On assistant coaches in college basketball? This is what we're trying to, to do? With all the problems we have in this country right now?

• 1:04:19Lewis Howes?

  Crazy. It's crazy.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. What was it, Colorado? What's going on there?

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  I mean, that's what the FBI should be involved in, not, not nailing assistant coaches.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  For giving kids money.

• 1:04:32Lewis Howes?

  Oh, well, I want to end on a positive note. A few questions left for you, if that's okay. Let's just say it's the, a championship game for you. You've got a new team, you're with a new school. You're not sure if this is going to be your last year. Maybe you coach a few more years, but you're not sure. Either way, you've got two minutes before the game starts. Your team has worked hard for you the whole year. They've done everything you've asked for. They've made some mistakes and some guys who've had to discipline over the, over the season. But they've come back together, they've rallied together and they're out the championship. What would you say in those minutes to two minutes before the game?

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Before the game, before we take the floor.

• 1:05:16Lewis Howes?

  Before you've already done warmups and everything, whatever may be.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Okay, we've gone back in the locker room.

• 1:05:20Lewis Howes?

  Now this is your time.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  We've said our team prayer.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  And I would tell them how proud I am of them. I know the struggles. I know the work it took to get to where we are today. But now it's time to win it all. I said, it's not, it's not time for the silver medal. It's not time for the bronze medal, it's time for the gold. It's time for us to stand on that podium on those, on that top level. And put that gold medal around our neck. It's time to win the championship. It's your time. Go out there and play as if it's your time. Enjoy every minute of this basketball game. Because when it's over, you're gonna be champions. And I want you to remember every minute of this game. I don't want you to just think about standing on the, I want you to cherish every minute of this game.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  And go out and win it. And let's stand on that podium together and put that gold around our neck.

• 1:06:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, get the chills.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Love that. And I hope I get that moment again.

• 1:06:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  There's, I miss it so much being in the locker room.

• 1:06:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  So I try to channel it in different directions now.

• 1:06:24Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:06:25Lewis Howes?

  It's not the same, but yeah.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  A coach is, um, the thing I miss most about coaching. After 41 years, it's the ability to help the young athlete. Get to where they wanna go. We don't win games, coaches don't win games.

• 1:06:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  We, we prepare, we coach, we, we may set up the play. For that player to take that shot. But we don't make the shot. We can set the play up. It, the athlete makes the shot. So I, I miss those moments.

• 1:06:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Very much so.

• 1:06:54Lewis Howes?

  How are you able to recreate that? Are you helping mentor young athletes still into going into the pros? Or other things that you can do to help people?

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Well, I spent a year right now.

• 1:07:06Lewis Howes?

  Writing this book and.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Writing the book and doing all the things. But this year, I'm gonna go out there and try to help other programs.

• 1:07:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Help ex assistant coaches. And spend the year traveling, watching, observing, and I said earlier, learning and listening. But. I follow about thirty different programs right now. My son's the head coach of Minnesota, so I follow every minute of every game.

• 1:07:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  I try not to get too involved with him right now because he wants me to be his dad, not his...

• 1:07:33Lewis Howes?

  Not the coach of him, yeah, yeah. And has it tainted your love for the game at all?

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  No, my passion is greater than ever.

• 1:07:40Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Yes, that's the good thing about it. I can't let the Southern District of New York, a board of trustees at Louisville, sour me. Can't do that. I can't, I've gotta let bitterness go. I know there's good people that believe they're doing the right things. And if I'm collateral damage, I'm collateral damage. I'll live with that. But I've gotta get on with my life in a positive way.

• 1:08:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And who would you say are the one or two most influential mentors in your life right now?

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Well, like I said, I started at twenty-four, so I've taken a different path than most people. There are people in the game I respect so much. I have great respect for Bill Belichick in football. I love what he does, the actual coaching, the teaching part. I love what he does. I love how he creates that winner with the Patriots every single year.

• 1:08:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  So there are so many college coaches out there that I admire, so many pro coaches I admire. Popovich with the San Antonio Spurs. I love the job that he does with that team because he he runs great things offensively and defensively. Runs great things. I love the way the Warriors play. I love to watch them. I would pay to watch Steph Curry play and Durant.

• 1:08:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  I like their games very much. And the college coaches I admire, so many of them I admire. Even in the league, I admire them. I have a lot of favorites out there.

• 1:09:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  I don't necessarily have any mentors because I'm sixty-five now.

• 1:09:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe younger mentors, you know, there might be some younger...

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna find out this fall who they are.

• 1:09:21Lewis Howes?

  On your rounds, who were the players in the last ten years that you played against in college?

• 1:09:29Lewis Howes?

  That have shocked you or surprised you in the pros. So you're like, yeah, they were good, but man, they exceeded, you know, your thoughts about how they would do.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Well, I think Steph Curry's one. I didn't expect him to.

• 1:09:42Lewis Howes?

  Probably every coach thought that, right?

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, we knew he's a good player.

• 1:09:45Lewis Howes?

  Did you play against him?

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  No, just watched him on TV at Davidson. We didn't play against him. But there are athletes out there. We played against Shaquille in college and I had a very mediocre team. And he had three NBA players on his team. We beat them. It was my first year at Kentucky. And I knew Shaquille would be good. Didn't know he'd be that good.

• 1:10:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  You know, there's so many guys that. There's so much talk about the greatest of all time, you know, the GOAT. And Michael and LeBron, everybody talks about which one's better.

• 1:10:17Lewis Howes?

  You know how guys, you know where I'm going.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Well, they always go with the most, the contemporary one, the current one.

• 1:10:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  So LeBron is one of the greatest physical specimens I've ever seen on a basketball court. Awesome talent. Michael's one of the most graceful specimens I've ever seen on a basketball court. And I could never say which one's better. I've been in the league with both of them and I can't say which one's better. They're both great athletes, great specimen, graceful, powerful. Both highly intelligent basketball players.

• 1:10:53Lewis Howes?

  Vision, everything.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  They have it all. They have the intelligence, they have the athleticism, they have it all. But I would put another guy in the same category with both of them.

• 1:11:03Lewis Howes?

  Who's that?

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  That's Magic Johnson. See, I was coaching at the time with Magic. I've seen Magic play. He's 6'9" legit. And when Kareem got hurt, Magic moved from the point to the center position and carried his team to a championship, playing the five spot.

• 1:11:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  So how many, LeBron's probably capable of that. But Michael's not. Michael can't play the center position. So I would put them, those three together as the greatest of all time. And that's not to take away from the greatest winner of all time, Bill Russell, or Kareem, or any of those guys, Kobe. Kobe's awesome. But to me, those three are a dead even. The three of those guys are dead even, in my estimation.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  Now LeBron's with Magic.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:50Lewis Howes?

  What's your thoughts on that?

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  I think LeBron is gonna make the Lakers a big winner. But he needs help.

• 1:11:57Lewis Howes?

  A lot of help.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  He's in the West. See LeBron could do it in the East.

• 1:12:01Lewis Howes?

  You need a lot of help, the Warriors.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  The Warriors.

• 1:12:04Lewis Howes?

  Houston.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  He's gonna need a lot of help. I don't think he can, as great as he is, I don't think he can surpass Houston. Definitely can't surpass Golden State.

• 1:12:13Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  But I think everybody knows that, who they're gonna get to play alongside him. But at least it's gonna be exciting for Laker fans.

• 1:12:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow, amazing. This is a question I ask at the end to everyone. It's called the three truths. So I'd like you to imagine it's your last day on earth. You live to as long as you want, but eventually you gotta call it quits. And you've achieved everything you want to achieve. As a coach, as a father, as a human, you do what you want. And you have no regrets, you do it all.

• 1:12:48Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, all the books you've written and the speeches you've done and conversations you've had, you've gotta take it all with you when you leave earth. But you get to write down on a piece of paper, the three things you know to be true about all your lessons and experiences of life. And this is what people would have to remember you by in physical form, right? This piece of paper, three lessons, three truths. What would you say are yours?

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  To leave, to leave behind.

• 1:13:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, this would be like the message you would leave behind, three different lessons that you would share from what you've learned, your experiences, the things you know to be true that you want other people to know.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Number one would be nothing can take the place of family. Family's always first. That when you leave, your love for your family is number one. No question about that. The second thing I would leave. Is you're never going to reach any goal that you that you want to reach without a strong work ethic. You can't cheat your work ethic. It has to be it has to be your common denominator. And the third message I probably would leave behind is it's not worth it unless you're humble about it. Humility is really, really the number one gift that you get. And if you're not humble about it, then you're never going to it's never going to be worthwhile.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  So those are probably three things that stick out right away.

• 1:14:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Spontaneously.

• 1:14:16Lewis Howes?

  That's great. I want to acknowledge you for a moment before I ask you the final question, Coach, for your humility, for your ability to share, for your ability to learn, to listen, and for giving so far, I think you're going to coach again. So for me, giving four decades of your life so far to educating young human beings into becoming better humans. Obviously, you're coaching basketball, but you're teaching life and teaching how to be a better human being. And it's incredible the amount of people you've impacted over the decades. And I hope that I'm able to impact as many people the way you have as well. So I acknowledge you for

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 1:14:54Lewis Howes?

  all that you've done. The inspiration that you are. Your book is out very soon, but you guys can preorder it right now. You can go to Amazon, you can go to Barnes and Noble, it'll be out soon, but you can preorder it. And are you on social media by any chance? Are you on?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  I'm going to be, I'm gonna have a podcast myself during basketball season, talking just basketball.

• 1:15:13Lewis Howes?

  Awesome.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Talking how teams are progressing and

• 1:15:16Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  and have coaches on and try to update it each week with different coaches from the past as well as the present.

• 1:15:23Lewis Howes?

  That'll be inspiring.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:15:24Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure people will love that. What else can we do? How else can we support you besides get the book? And is there anything else we can do?

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  No, I just, the book for me is is just to tell the truth about not only the good things, but the bad things. I want the truth to be told the right way. And that's the most important thing. That's why I call it my story, because it is my story.

• 1:15:43Lewis Howes?

  I like it. I like it. We'll make sure you guys pick up a copy of the book. We'll check out the podcast when it's out, and we'll have this all linked up. But the the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Well, greatness for a coach is different than greatness for a business person or greatness for an athlete. My definition of greatness is when you can lift others up around you to levels that maybe they didn't think they could get to. That's greatness. You have to define it as a coach. And as a coach, it's about lifting others up around you. And that's what a coach does.

• 1:16:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, Coach, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for being here.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:16:28Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode. LewisHowes.com/689 for the full show notes, video interview, and all the other information about how to connect with Coach Rick Pitino. Again, "Leadership is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way," said John Maxwell. And we go through lots of different challenges and adversities through every season of life. And it's what we learn through the challenges, through the failures, which make us a better leader in our lives, in our relationships, in our health, in our businesses, in our careers. And that's what this is all about. It's constantly elevating our game to reach our ultimate potential

• 1:17:10Lewis Howes?

  and continue to elevate each step along the way. If you enjoyed this, let me know, @lewishouse over on social media. And we've got some massive interviews and episodes coming up. So many of you are telling me what you've enjoyed about these past interviews and episodes. The one on with Dr. Joe Dispenza has been a huge hit recently. The one with Humble the Poet, the one with Leslie Odom Jr. We've also had the one on managing anxiety and overwhelm. That's been a huge hit for so many people. So if this is your first time here, make sure to check out some of the previous episodes over the last couple of weeks. And so many episodes that we've got here, we're constantly elevating and bringing this to another level for you.

• 1:17:54Lewis Howes?

  We've got some big interviews and episodes coming soon. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.