Wild Horse Nine and What’s Making Us Happy

Wild Horse Nine is a terrific new movie that stars John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell as two CIA agents who head to Easter Island for an unusual and mysterious mission in the early 1970s. They bicker and banter constantly, but the film is more than just a hangout movie: It also reflects heavily on memory and regret. Written and directed by Martin McDonagh (Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri), it promises to be a major player in this year’s Oscars race. Are you looking for another good hang? Check out these episodes: 'One of Them Days' turns Keke Palmer and SZA loose https://www.npr.org/2025/01/22/1226038398/one-of-them-days-turns-keke-palmer-and-sza-loose Jesse Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin tap into 'A Real Pain' https://www.npr.org/2024/11/20/1214145123/jesse-eisenberg-and-kieran-culkin-tap-into-a-real-pain Connect with Pop Culture Happy Hour: Letterboxd https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ / Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pchh Our weekly newsletter https://www.npr.org/newsletter/pop-culture Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening. Learn more at plus.npr.org http://plus.npr.org/. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:15Stephen Thompson?

  Hey, before we get to the show, you, yes, you with the impeccable taste in podcasts. If Pop Culture Happy Hour has ever helped you win a debate in the group chat, find a hit series before everyone else, or pretend you saw that movie you definitely didn't, do us a solid and leave the show a review wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps more people find us and it helps us make the show even better for you. We thank you.

• 0:41Stephen Thompson?

  I was definitely walking out of the theater doing that thing that people sometimes do coming out of movies at this time of year. You know, I started cataloging what Oscars it's likely to be in contention for.

• 0:51Aisha Harris?

  Don't do it, Stephen. Just enjoy the ride.

• 0:53Stephen Thompson?

  I promise I will do that, but I absolutely thought, well, that's best original screenplay done and dusted.

• 1:03Stephen Thompson?

  A terrific new movie starring John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell promises to be a major player in this year's Oscars race. Wild Horse 9 is about two CIA agents who head to Easter Island for an unusual and mysterious mission in the early 1970s. I'm Stephen Thompson. Joining me today is my co-host, Aisha Harris. Hey, Ayesha.

• 1:24Aisha Harris?

  Hello, Stephen.

• 1:25Stephen Thompson?

  Also with us, writer and host of the Film Spotting podcast, Movie Deathmatch, Chris Klimick. Hey, Chris.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  They're called Moi, Stephen.

• 1:32Stephen Thompson?

  Yes.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  Glad to be here.

• 1:33Stephen Thompson?

  You are correct. So Wild Horse 9 opens in Chile during the run up to the 1973 coup that overthrew the country's democratically elected president. We meet two CIA agents who've been embroiled in Chile's unrest. Sam Rockwell plays Lee, who's got a wife and kids back home, while John Malkovich plays his partner, Chris, a chatterbox with a long history of assassinations under his belt.

• 1:57Speaker 04

  We are the CIA, actually. We're totally the CIA.

• 2:01Speaker 05

  We're not the CIA, obviously.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Yes, we are. I swear. He's just being shy. We came down here to destabilize your democracy, and it is going great.

• 2:12Stephen Thompson?

  They quickly leave Santiago for Easter Island, where Chris is excited to see the giant stone heads, and Lee is stressed out about the demands of their boss, MJ, played by Steve Buscemi. Chris and Lee bicker and banter constantly, but Wild Horse 9 is more than just a hangout movie. It's also reflecting heavily on memory and regret, with stakes that extend to some of the biggest world events of the 60s and 70s. The film was written and directed by Martin McDonagh, whose films include Imbrugge, The Banshees of Inisherin, and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Wild Horse 9 is in theaters now. Ayesha, I'm going to start with you. What'd you think?

• 2:48Aisha Harris?

  Well, I'm a sucker for a good, you've already mentioned it, a good hangout movie. A movie where you've maybe got two people on a mission. They know each other well, or they know each other well enough, and they just have a banter. And a lot of movies try to do this. They don't always do it well. I think McDonagh is doing a great job here. These characters, to me, are so vivid, so lived in as soon as we're dropped in. I also just think this is one of my favorite Malkovich performances in a minute. I love that his character, Chris, is, he's kind of like a Forrest Gump of the CIA. He seems to have been involved with a lot of things that we learn about in our history books. And he's not a quote, unquote, good guy, but he's an interesting guy.

• 3:32Aisha Harris?

  And I think this movie does a really great job of walking that fine line between these men have done horrible things, but also like, it's kind of fun to hang out with them and hear them. So yeah, I'm a big fan of this movie. I really, really enjoyed it.

• 3:47Stephen Thompson?

  All right, Ayesha, how about you, Chris?

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think this is my, my favorite Malkovich performance, too. There's a bit of symmetry in the fact that just, just by virtue of my age and interests, the, you know, although he was already well-established actor by this point, the first thing I really noted him in was In the Line of Fire, the 1993 thriller where he is attempting to assassinate the president.

• 4:06Stephen Thompson?

  He's very memorable in that.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  I think he got a supporting actor nomination for that. But yeah, I mean, he's a, he's a very good villain. And this is a richer, more mournful performance. I feel like a lot of actors, they find a new key later in life as just the, you know, natural effects of aging and lived experience. It just, this gives you a deeper reservoir of emotion that you can tap into. And without gilding the lily, he is mining that beautifully here, you know? And from a guy, I mean, Martin McDonagh does not write plays or movies about nice people, generally. They're all pretty much bastards to one degree or another. And I feel like the degree to which he gestures towards a late in life moral awakening here is, is just the right amount.

• 4:53Speaker 03

  So I am, I am very, very high on this film.

• 4:56Stephen Thompson?

  I agree with both of you. I think that, first of all, yes, it is a tremendous nuanced performance by John Malkovich. Like Ayesha, I love a good hang, but it is a much trickier thing to pull off than it might seem. The actors have to have a ton of chemistry. That script needs to be so sharp. I was definitely walking out of the theater doing that thing that people sometimes do coming out of movies at this time of year. You know, I started cataloging what Oscars it's likely to be in contention for.

• 5:25Aisha Harris?

  Don't do it, Stephen. Just enjoy the ride.

• 5:27Stephen Thompson?

  I promise I will do that, but I absolutely thought, well, that's best original screenplay done and dusted. And it's really interesting. It's, it's, you know, Martin McDonagh is a very distinctive filmmaker. He has made films with, I would say, a wide range of quality. His most recent film, The Banshees of Inisherin, I liked quite a bit. His previous film, The.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Three Billboards.

• 5:49Stephen Thompson?

  I think indefensible Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, I know it has many defenders, is a movie I hated, but this is my favorite of, of his films. Even though, you know, it has elements that it, you can tell it's by the filmmaker who made Three Billboards. There are echoes of that film here. There are echoes of Banshees here. But these characters are so easy to hang out with, even as they're talking about having done terrible things. That's a really tricky feat to pull off. And, you know, so much of why it works so well is in these performances. I mean, you heard the clip, right? It's a scene where the two of them are bantering in an airport and they're talking to strangers.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  The most public place.

• 6:31Stephen Thompson?

  Not, not the most discreet conversation they could possibly be having. But you hear that clip and it sounds like a podcast. It sounds like two guys hanging out and laughing on a podcast.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Say more.

• 6:43Stephen Thompson?

  And yet it's so naturalistic. It, it works so well in that moment. And I just realized in that scene, like, oh, I'm going to love this movie. I'm going to love hanging out with these people. Even as the plot becomes more complex, as it becomes darker, it never really loses that good hang quality that makes it work so well.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  I mean, I think this is kind of a side trip for these guys, right? They are, they are on a, on a mission. They are involved in the CIA's well documented attempts to overthrow the democratically elected president Allende of Chile and then replace him with, with Pinochet.

• 7:21Speaker 04

  How do you like your new president? Your new left wing president?

• 7:28Speaker 05

  What'd I say about before, Chris? What'd I say?

• 7:29Speaker 06

  Yes, we like him. Everybody likes him.

• 7:32Speaker 04

  Not everybody. That wouldn't be true. Well, enjoy him while you can, ladies.

• 7:39Speaker 06

  And what's that supposed to mean? Enjoy him while you can?

• 7:42Speaker 03

  But their little side trip to Easter Island is, is, they don't have anything really mission critical to do over there. They're just there to, to see the heads and, and spend some time. I, I think, you know, it is relevant to consider the very mixed reception to Three Billboards almost 10 years ago, because that is the case where I'm a qualified defender of that movie. But I mean, I, I will acknowledge, like where McDonagh really got out over his skis, right? He is talking about very American political, sociological problems that he does not really have a grasp on. And he is looking at American foreign policy here, too.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  I think it's like, you know, you don't quite understand America in the way that you, you clearly get rural Ireland.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  But the fact that he is casting a, a critical eye as a, a British Irishman, you know, a guy who comes out of the society that was the dominant colonial power of the 19th century, and now he's looking at us, the US. I think that all works. And I think this is also, you know, as someone who, again, just by virtue of the age that I was, I, I learned all this history initially because you two and Sting were writing songs about it in the 80s. Truly.

• 8:59Stephen Thompson?

  Story checks out.

• 9:00Aisha Harris?

  Look, we all learn our history in different ways and.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  So, I mean, this is another, you know, now in, in middle age, this is another European artist critiquing American recentish history. And I am, I am very receptive to that.

• 9:16Aisha Harris?

  Well, to your point, Chris, like, I am also very anti Three Billboards. So I'm, I'm in your camp, Stephen. I do think that his barrier to entry in large part was him being, not being from here, not being American, but to his credit, or at least to give him some credit, like, there's plenty of white American filmmakers who have fumbled the ball when it comes to trying to deal with the same topics. So like.

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 9:41Aisha Harris?

  I'm sure it didn't help that he was foreign, but I think why this works so well is maybe he took some of the criticism that was, was thrown at him after Three Billboards. But also, there is a difference, I think, between something as distinctly American as Three Billboards and then something that is more global and more international. And I, and I do think that this is where the strengths lie.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:03Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah. I think where this film works that didn't work as well in Three Billboards, first of all, he's tackling history, right? He's tackling stuff that happened 50, 60, 70 years ago. Instead of trying to provide this, like, great American novel in film about America today, trying to capture what life is like today is actually a much riskier and harder proposition than looking at like, the history of how America has interacted with the world. And here, he's able to deploy it mostly as a source of satire, kind of cracking jokes about these people and how they're shaping world history. For whatever reason, this just worked in every way that Three Billboards didn't for me.

• 10:48Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. I, I also just want to, we haven't talked really much about Steve Buscemi here, but like, I, first of all, he's amazing. Like, he's one of those character actors. As soon as he pops up, I'm going to be happy. I know I'm going to be, like, even if the movie isn't good, I know he's going to do something interesting in it.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Even though life's sad, everything's sad. That's why he takes so much smack.

• 11:09Stephen Thompson?

  But I mean, he is aged into like cranky old man.

• 11:13Aisha Harris?

  Yes.

• 11:13Stephen Thompson?

  Character actor.

• 11:15Aisha Harris?

  And I love it.

• 11:15Stephen Thompson?

  Which is such a great lane for him. It's kind of, it's what he was born to. And Tom Waits is in this movie, too. Another person who was like born to be a cranky old man.

• 11:25Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. And I just love how he just pops up here. He's annoyed by the John Malkovich character. He's worried about the John. Like, there's a lot of recurring bits throughout this entire movie and callbacks and. Like, I just keep thinking about how well crafted this is. Like, the way that information is doled out, the way we learn about the dynamic between Lee and Chris, and then also everything that's going on. Like, I don't know, I just think all the pieces fit together in a really satisfying way. And this feels like such a, it feels like we don't make movies as much like this anymore. Like, a solid crowd pleaser that my grandparents are gonna enjoy, but also someone my age or younger will also enjoy. And I just really had a good time with this movie, even though it's very dark.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Well, and it's a bitter crowd pleaser, right? Like, I mean, if this was really, you know, intended to be a very commercial movie versus maybe an awards contender movie, it would be like, oh, well, we have to decide what happened to, you know.

• 12:23Aisha Harris?

  So and so.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  Character name.

• 12:25Aisha Harris?

  Yes.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, and this movie ends exactly where you want it to end. I don't want those two more scenes where like, and by the way, everyone, you know, on the other side of the world was fine. Like, don't want that.

• 12:37Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah, it is, it is a film that knows where and when to be lean. What did you think of the setting here? Because most of this film takes place on Easter Island. It was very reminiscent of Banshees of Inisherin, which is set on a kind of a remote island. I was really struck by the scenery. I mean, obviously, it's able to use these heads as kind of a backdrop for this story. But I also, I did just appreciate this, the way this film hung out in a place I haven't hung out before.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  This is really, I think, among his films. This is the movie that incorporates the environment into the thematic stuff, the character stuff, in the most successful way. I mean, obviously, that was a big part of Inisherin as well. But I love that, and that even as glib and as funny as particularly like the first third of this movie is, those cutaways to the scenery, I mean, that does kind of place these two guys in context. And, you know, kind of remember, it's like, this planet will outlive all of this, you know, inhumane stuff that we're doing to one another. And also kind of gestured towards the point where this movie, there's a scene in a bar

• 13:50Speaker 03

  where Chris, the Malkovich character, is speaking to Monica, this Chilean student. And suddenly, the movie is as serious as a heart attack. I mean, it is, I don't think the Malkovich monologue about the steps of the coup goes on than more than like 30 seconds. But I mean, that has haunted me.

• 14:11Aisha Harris?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  So this movie really, really knows when to slow down and zoom out.

• 14:17Aisha Harris?

  Mm hmm. I also think the advantages of, A, this being set in the 70s, and B, this being on a remote island, is that for the remote island part, you've got this sense that like, there's not really too many places you can hide. That like, there's such a good use of open space in various scenes of like, just being completely vulnerable and out in the open and not being able to go anywhere. And so when that takes place, especially when stuff's going down, like, it's really, really effective. But then also, you just think about, it's the 70s, so we don't have all the same technology. We have to be somewhat both more connected and less connected to people. And even that scene early on that we heard where they're in the airport, it's like,

• 15:00Aisha Harris?

  there was a time when airports were tiny and you like, you go in and you walk, and you don't have to go through all the security. And it's just like, everyone is just in this room, and everyone who's in this room is gonna be on a plane. Like, just the intimacy of all of the way that these characters interact, plus the space that is used. Like, I think there's just something really effective, not just about the dialogue, but also the way the visuals play out here. And I think one of the strengths of this movie is how it uses that space and the period it is set in.

• 15:28Stephen Thompson?

  All right, well, I think it's safe to say, we recommend this movie and suspect you'll be hearing a lot more about it in the coming months for a variety of reasons. Up next, what is making us happy this week?

• 15:42Speaker 00

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• 17:21Stephen Thompson?

  Now, it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Chris Klimick, why don't you kick us off?

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Stephen, what's making me happy is in fact making me so happy that I can only express it to you in song.

• 17:51Aisha Harris?

  Is that the football theme?

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, from Friday Night Football. We all like to spend Friday night in front of the tube watching professional football, right? Am I selling it? No, so this, this is the opening musical number, the original musical number that opens the 1991 Joel Silver, Tony Scott, Bruce Willis headline.

• 18:14Stephen Thompson?

  The Last Boy Scout.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Semi classic, The Last Boy Scout.

• 18:17Aisha Harris?

  Okay.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Which has, yeah, look, guys, let's talk about problematic movies we love for a second, okay? Let's talk about buddy movies that have some jokes in them that I don't want to defend.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  This movie has just gotten a wonderful 4K re-release from the good people at the sort of cult video label Arrow Video. This is kind of a skeleton key movie for people who care about Shane Black like I do. This is the one after Lethal Weapon. This is the one that plants the seed that will fully flower in The Nice Guys. 25 years after this, you know, I think we mischaracterize because of Lethal Weapon, Shane Black, the auteur of the buddy cop movie, but it's really the buddy PI movie where he excels. And this is the attempt to replicate what had been a very successful formula in Lethal Weapon with Bruce Willis and Damon Wayans.

• 19:10Stephen Thompson?

  I was gonna say, this has Wayans in it as I recall.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. So Damon Wayans is a disgraced former professional football player who was thrown out for gambling and drugs. Bruce Willis is a disgraced former Secret Service agent who stumbles on a conspiracy to, now, everyone, I will allow a pause for pearl clutching here. There is a conspiracy to legalize sports gambling.

• 19:33Stephen Thompson?

  Whoa.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  So, yeah.

• 19:35Stephen Thompson?

  Could never, could never happen.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Truly, truly. This movie is such an archaeological specimen of cinema 1991. It's kind of just a very specific point of like, CGI is about to come in and transform how these movies are made. But this is one of the last just giant ego pileups of Joel Silver, Tony Scott, you know, a few years after Top Gun, Bruce Willis, three years after Die Hard. It's blue and smoky in every possible environment in this movie. It just, it gave me such pleasure. It was like realizing that once in a while, just once in a while, secondhand smoke is maybe, maybe a little bit good.

• 20:14Stephen Thompson?

  Not where I expected you to go with that.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Truly. So revisiting The Last Boy Scout, which I could confidently say is like the third or fourth best Shane Black movie, and still an essential document.

• 20:26Stephen Thompson?

  I mean, 1991 was such a great year for music.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  Wasn't it?

• 20:30Stephen Thompson?

  And such a weird year for movies.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Well, you also get Damon Wayans doing an all-too-brief Prince impersonation in this film, Stephen. So if I have failed to entice you up till now, I don't want to really carry the weight of giving this a full-throated endorsement. But for those who know, The Last Boy Scout is available in a wonderful 4K collector's edition from Arrow Video, and it does include every minute of that glorious song.

• 21:00Aisha Harris?

  All right.

• 21:01Stephen Thompson?

  Wow. All right. That is The Last Boy Scout. Aisha Harris, what's making you happy this week, buddy?

• 21:08Aisha Harris?

  Well, the film history buff in me has always been a fan of the TCM Podcast, The Plot Thickens, and the current season is airing, hosted by Ben Mankiewicz. And the current season is all about Stanley Kubrick. And you know what? I'm here for it. I realized that there's so much I didn't know. Like, I've seen most of his movies and seen a lot of them many times. I love A Clockwork Orange. It's one of my favorites. I recently finally sat down and watched a 4K restoration of Barry Lyndon.

• 21:41Stephen Thompson?

  Barry Lyndon?

• 21:42Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes. I'd never seen it, and I'd been waiting to see it in a theater. So my local theater was playing it in 4K and blew my mind. Love that movie. But yeah, this podcast is covering all of Stanley Kubrick, his life, the films. If you are a fan of any of his work and just want to learn more about him, I think this is a good place to start. They have interviews with people who worked with him, lots of archival footage. It's just really good. So that is the TCM Podcast, The Plot Thickens. This current season is all about Stanley Kubrick. Highly recommend it.

• 22:16Stephen Thompson?

  Nice.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Ayesha, the Criterion Kubrick box is arriving today.

• 22:20Aisha Harris?

  Dude.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  I am hoping that when I take my phone out of airplane mode, I will have a notification that it is destined.

• 22:26Aisha Harris?

  I cannot afford it right now.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  I have been unemployed for like, two years. No, I was saving up my Criterion coupons for like, two years to, yeah.

• 22:38Aisha Harris?

  I'm so proud.

• 22:38Stephen Thompson?

  While you guys have been talking, I left my studio, drove to Chris's house, and robbed his porch.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Oh, I left a pie cooling on the window. So please, Stephen, I bet that's also gone.

• 22:51Stephen Thompson?

  All right. Thank you, Ayesha. So for me, I've been loving a fantastic new record called Everything Has Changed. It's by a singer-songwriter and former public defender by the name of Danielle Ponder.

• 23:06Aisha Harris?

  Love it.

• 23:07Stephen Thompson?

  Now, there's a part of me that also thinks we need more public defenders. But her music, which is fantastic, mashes up blues and soul, but it's also got these glimmers of, like, trip-hop to it. She's able to mash up so many sounds and styles into her songs, but she also knows just how and just when to stomp the gas.

• 23:49Stephen Thompson?

  Knows just how to hang back, knows just when to go full throttle. And there's so much atmosphere and verve to these songs. That song is called "God of You." It's an incredible showcase for that luminous voice. Danielle Ponder actually entered NPR's Tiny Desk Contest back in 2020. She was inspired to enter by her love of Tank and the Bangas. So you know that's a good-hearted person. I should have had her on my radar before this, but she is sure as heck there now. That is Danielle Ponder. Her new album is called Everything Has Changed. And that is what is making me happy this week. That brings

• 24:31Stephen Thompson?

  us to the end of our show. Chris Klimick, Aisha Harris, thanks so much for being here.

• 24:35Aisha Harris?

  Thank you, Stephen.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Thank you, Stephen.

• 24:36Stephen Thompson?

  This episode was produced by J.C. Howard, Hafsa Fathema, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.

• 24:58Speaker 00

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