The Fall Movie Preview (with Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins of ‘The Big Picture’)

With the fall movie season upon us, who better to sit with than ⁠The Big Picture⁠ co-hosts Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins? We begin with a post-vacation check-in (2:38), the god-given gifts of Ben Affleck and Jacob Elordi (6:19), and the latest film from “influencer” Ridley Scott (7:05). Then we move on to our fall movie preview/draft, highlighting Jordan Firstman’s Club Kid (19:25), Julianne Moore in The Debut (21:39), Robert Pattinson in Primetime (26:12), and new films from directors Alejandro G. Iñárritu (32:37), David Fincher (36:24), James Gray (42:37), and Danny Boyle (58:00). Plus, two personal, familial projects in Once Upon a Time in Harlem (50:51) and The Making of Marie Antoinette (49:11). On the back-half, we talk all things The Big Picture: Sean and Amanda’s New York origin story (1:01:39), moving to Los Angeles to launch The Ringer (1:12:22), the call from Bill Simmons that brought this duo together (1:12:36), the power of the Dob Mob (1:17:44), and the ongoing race for the show’s third chair, featuring Chris Ryan (1:23:02) and Tracy Letts (1:27:30). We also discuss Sean’s Mount Rushmore of dream guests (1:30:36), the movie he’d most like to do on The Rewatchables (1:34:06), ChatGPT Ebert (1:34:34), the role of AI in film and media (1:35:33), the contemporary challenges of making good work in a “crumbling industry” (1:38:44), and why this show—and this pair—continue to work after nearly a thousand episodes (1:45:39). Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠YouTube channel⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@talkeasypod. As always, our email: [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is already far more civil than the drafts are.

• 0:03Sam Fragoso?

  We just, we haven't started yet.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Well, I just, if you would like us to, if you would like us to behave, you should say so now.

• 0:18Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 0:34Sam Fragoso?

  Today, it's Lord of Letterboxd and the head of the Da Mob, Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins. They host The Big Picture, one of the flagship shows over at The Ringer. And each week, they break down what's happening in movies, what's playing in theaters, what you can watch on streaming, and of course, the films coming just around the corner. And so with the fall movie season upon us, and both Sean and Amanda heading off to two different festivals in Telluride and Venice, we thought we'd borrow a page from their beloved movie drafts playbook and look ahead at the projects we're most excited to see come the end of 2026. That's the first half of the episode. After the break and the draft, we turn to some of Sean and Amanda's origin story, how they first met back in New York City, their time working in magazines, the creation of

• 1:18Sam Fragoso?

  The Ringer and The Big Picture, this latest chapter with Netflix, and how they've evolved as co-hosts after nearly 1,000 episodes. That's coming up next with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins. I hope you enjoy. Amanda Dobbins, Sean Fantasy, thank you for being here.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Thanks for having us.

• 1:36Sam Fragoso?

  How are you two doing? You were on vacation. The tan is fantastic.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  I'm a little self-conscious about it, but thank you. Yeah, it's a little too much. I wore sunscreen every day. I reapplied. I wore a hat. I did all of the responsible things I'm supposed to do as a mother and a woman over 40 with, you know, fearing sun damage, but here we are.

• 1:58Sam Fragoso?

  This is all natural. This is no, there's no.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  No, yeah, of course, it's natural. Yeah. No, oh, no spray tans. No, I don't, I don't do spray tans. And many people do, and that's great for them, but that's not in my arsenal.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  You can naturally look like George Hamilton. He's amazing.

• 2:11Sam Fragoso?

  That's what I was about to say. This, this is pretty, if I could do that.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  You and I, we don't have that a lot in life.

• 2:19Sam Fragoso?

  Have you been okay without Amanda on The Big Picture since you've been on vacation?

• 2:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been okay.

• 2:24Sam Fragoso?

  You've been okay.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  I listened to the most recent episode. You did well.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Good job.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  I, yeah, we've both been on parental leave in the past. We've both had to do the show without each other in the past. It's not as fun, but we make do.

• 2:38Sam Fragoso?

  I wanted to start there in a recent episode that you weren't on, just to kind of clear the air and make sure, give you a chance to respond. Sean has been accused throughout the years, but especially this year, of being too horny on the podcast.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Right, yes.

• 2:54Sam Fragoso?

  And I want to play just a little bit from that episode for us, and Amanda will give you a shot to jump in.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  I love Sean Fantasy, but sometimes he's too horny on The Big Picture.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  I think that's a misrepresentation. I'm not saying I'm not too horny, but on The Big Picture, I think me noting my appreciation for certain actresses, I have my faves, right? Anne Hathaway, Jessica Chastain, that is not too horny. It's like looking at a great work of art and saying, God, there's such depth and specialness here. We should acknowledge it every time we see it. If you go to the Louvre, you've been to the Louvre five times, you don't not look at the Mona Lisa. You look at the Mona Lisa. It's there. It's a, it's a classical work of art. It's meant to be appreciated over and over again, and it's right to say so. Is that too horny? No. That doesn't mean I'm not horny, but it doesn't mean I'm too horny. I'm doing my best. If I cross the line sometimes, it's only out of appreciation and respect. I'm not trying to objectify anybody, and I won't. Amanda,

• 3:50Speaker 02

  on the other hand, is too horny.

• 3:51Sam Fragoso?

  Welcome back.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. I did see that on Instagram.

• 3:54Sam Fragoso?

  I thought you did.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:56Sam Fragoso?

  I always wanted to give you kind of the runway to respond.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  Until the jab at the end, I, I stand with Sean on this one. I think that I disagree with the premise of the question. You do a pretty good job.

• 4:09Sam Fragoso?

  Thanks. Especially on The Big Picture.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  And especially in relationship to, you know, the history of cinema and media as well, which is kind of what we are speaking about twice a week. So you don't objectify women as much as Hollywood and/or mass, you know, mainstream media. Well, sure, but you know, there you are. And I think there's one phrase that you have that is, um, someone's beauty is like a special effect, which is for, I think Marilyn Monroe and Ana de Armas and a couple other people. And I guess those are paired together because one tried to play the other, not her fault. So I.

• 4:49Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, completely forgot that movie existed.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Well, I think that's probably for the best, but, but she, she tried very hard. So even

• 4:57Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, no, no one accused her of not trying. That was, that was not the issue.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  So I think you do a good job. I think I'm fine. I think I'm direct. I think that.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Do you think you objectify men?

• 5:12Speaker 00

  No, I think that I'm acknowledging the role that they are playing in the film or in the world at large, much like you are.

• 5:20Sam Fragoso?

  I think not horny enough.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you.

• 5:22Sam Fragoso?

  I, I think, I think go for it. That's what people want on a pod.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 5:28Sam Fragoso?

  Look, it's what I want.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  They want 40-somethings on movie podcasts talking about how hot they think people are?

• 5:34Sam Fragoso?

  I just want to encourage future generations to get in there. Try it out.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  And you, so this is about being a role model?

• 5:40Sam Fragoso?

  I, you know, and I, of course, I think of podcasting in that way.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Okay, right.

• 5:45Sam Fragoso?

  I, I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I would say on the rewatchables, I think you're a little hornier than you are on The Big Picture.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Different environment.

• 5:52Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  It's more of a clubhouse situation.

• 5:54Sam Fragoso?

  I think you're egged on by certain parties.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's, I think that's part of the social contract of that show. But even still, I would say I'm more restrained.

• 6:01Sam Fragoso?

  Horniness is part of the social contract.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. Well, the expression of, right? The communication of, the certification of.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  And the appreciation of as well.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  But like, we're not talking about individual body parts, right?

• 6:16Speaker 00

  I would also.

• 6:18Sam Fragoso?

  That is a low bar.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Let's dig into this, though, because you're concerned about the younger people not having sex, which, which so am I. But would two old people on a podcast being like, really appreciate the work of Ben Affleck, especially in Gone Girl, when he's in the shower?

• 6:36Sam Fragoso?

  Great stuff.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  Is that going to encourage younger people to get out there and get after it, you know? I don't, I don't know if the two are aligned. And I'm fine. I do appreciate the work of Ben Affleck in and out of the shower, but I don't know whether people, the young people are going to go out and is that going to encourage young people to have sex or to watch Gone Girl? I think they should do both.

• 6:58Sam Fragoso?

  What's the difference?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Fair question.

• 7:01Sam Fragoso?

  I'm just about raising awareness. That's, that's all.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  I think I agree with you.

• 7:05Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. One piece of film news I want to talk about before we get into the fall draft. Ridley Scott has a new project out called The Dog Stars.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:14Sam Fragoso?

  Unfortunate title, but it stars Jacob Elordi, Josh Brolin, and Margaret Qualley. And for it, he sat down for an interview in Variety where he said, quote, "I never want to repeat myself, and all of my films have been on the money. I've been ahead of the game frequently, and if you're ahead of the game, you're an influencer. So I'm not a filmmaker, I'm an influencer."

• 7:37Speaker 00

  I did see this quote as well.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Same, Ridley. Big same.

• 7:40Sam Fragoso?

  He sounded so much like the Connor O'Malley character in Maddie's Secret.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Play nice. We've got content to make.

• 7:48Sam Fragoso?

  I didn't see that at Pivot.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  Ridley Scott's relationship to filmmaking and also advertising and the, the image as a commercial product is quite history. So he's not wrong. He definitely, to your point, sounds like Connor O'Malley and/or the, you know, Hello Fellow Kids, in that he's trying to attach himself to the most in vogue word. But he does understand what an image can do to make people buy things, which is my understanding of the word influencer.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  He's a very commercial filmmaker, and he's a very sort of like actively for hire director. He has a lot of power, but whether or not he has like a specific, authorial style, the timing is very good because we're seeing The Dog Stars tonight, Amanda and I, which is something that we do frequently. We go to see these screenings together. And then at the end of this week, we're going to do an episode about The Dog Stars and about Ridley's whole career. Ridley usually does this thing that you just shared with us before every movie. He does one to two junket interviews. He says one to two hysterical, ridiculous things. He very rarely engages with any kind of meaningful criticism or praise of his work.

• 9:00Sam Fragoso?

  Or interview for that matter.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yes, he doesn't do very many interviews. I've never talked to him before. Have you spoken with him, man?

• 9:05Sam Fragoso?

  He has not come on the show.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:07Sam Fragoso?

  He has declined every request.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  I would like to sit on that couch right there when he does and just be a part of the

• 9:13Sam Fragoso?

  When he says decline or when he comes on the show?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  That's the thing, though. He's a great talker, so you'd think he would do more things like this, but, um.

• 9:21Sam Fragoso?

  He is. I interviewed him once when I was like in college. I did a story about Catherine Waterston for Movie Maker Magazine. I don't even know if that exists anymore.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah, I know.

• 9:30Sam Fragoso?

  And he, he gave me like 20 minutes on the phone. Everything he said made it into the piece. Of course, he's a great salesman and is good at it. But I was a little, I was a little, influencer seems, it kind of bummed me out a little bit.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I would have given the note too. Going back to horniness, just for a second.

• 9:48Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, thank God.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Well, just because as you were reading the cast list, I was reminded.

• 9:53Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, of who you were attracted to?

• 9:55Speaker 00

  I know that Jacob Elordi is in this film. I'm quite looking forward to spending two hours with him tonight, but for the premiere.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Not too horny, apparently.

• 10:04Sam Fragoso?

  And Sean's sitting next to you while you're excited. Okay.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, a slight vibration emanating from her seat.

• 10:10Speaker 00

  Jacob Elordi brought his dog to the premiere, red carpet of Dog Stars.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  What kind of dog?

• 10:17Speaker 00

  It looked sort of German Shepherd-ish. As you know, I'm not real, but well-trained, and it was doing some, you know, Jacob Elordi had the dog, you know, sit and like pose for the cameras, which I thought was just a great bit because Jacob Elordi is quite tall and can do anything. But I just want to say that not until you read the title, The Dog Stars, on this podcast two minutes ago, did it connect in my mind that Jacob Elordi brought his dog to the red carpet because dog is in the title.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Is that why? Or was it just to engender sympathy for what may not turn out to be a very good film?

• 10:50Sam Fragoso?

  I think that's it. I think, I think he's probably using the dog.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  It worked.

• 10:53Sam Fragoso?

  I, I want to stop with the animal. Bring on animals during awards. I, I'm, I'm good.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  So you don't like it when the dog is being recognized for its performance?

• 11:03Sam Fragoso?

  No, I think it should be recognized for its performance. I don't like it being recognized as a prop.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Right. Longtime advocates of Dog Oscars.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  But I just don't know why, if you're a dog person, you want to take recognition away from these hardworking dogs. You remember the dog that was in both Game Night and? Widows?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  The Steve McQueen movie. I want to say her name was Olivia, but I could be wrong. And anyway, Olivia was having her moment. She was the it girl of the season and you don't want her recognized. I'm sorry if her name's not Olivia. I'm sorry to this dog.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  This is already very different than when I was on the show last time, Sam. I just want you to know that. The tributaries we've gone down.

• 11:39Sam Fragoso?

  You want me to know that? I remember I was the host. But thoroughly enjoying. So I want to get into the fall movie preview, which I thought we could do in the style of the big picture, which is doing a draft. Now, one or two big questions before we get into it. You both are going to festivals, is that right? You're going to Telluride and you're going to Venice?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 12:02Sam Fragoso?

  Are you two bracing yourselves for the fall? How do you feel? And how do you think the movie year has been thus far heading into September?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  I like the travel. I don't love the travel, but the, once I'm at a festival, I'm usually very happy. I really enjoy the experience of seeing something really for the first time with a lot of people and getting excited about it. And you know, the pomp and circumstance, I think, is entertaining. And where I go every year is one of my favorite places on the planet. So.

• 12:27Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like people spotting Sean Venisey at Telluride is like when they spot Herzog over there.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:34Sam Fragoso?

  At this point.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  It's not quite at that level. He's been going since the beginning of the festival and has a theater named after him. So let's not compare us.

• 12:40Sam Fragoso?

  They're pretty close.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  But it is true. He has met a lot of people and made a lot of Telluride friends who have now become my friends as well, which is a nice benefit. And it's your happy place.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  It is.

• 12:52Sam Fragoso?

  So here are the categories as I devised them. But again, I offered room for punch ups here because this is not my wheelhouse. But I had best picture, best performer, performance, a category called F Y C, which also could be called Charles Melton Sent Me Homemade Kimchi Award for Campaign Going the Extra Mile. All love to Charles Melton and his family. That was very sweet. I think he did that for May, December. Family Affair, which is a movie that's going to come out around Thanksgiving or Christmas, or a movie that just feels befitting of that time. Cautiously optimistic, I think that's implied. And then wildcard can be anything from smaller movie into critical darling movie that will maybe

• 13:34Sam Fragoso?

  need some more love and support. So that's, that's what I had now.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  I'm not checking my text messages here. I just, I have a list. I do my homework.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  I heard. But it has to be opening in the fall.

• 13:44Sam Fragoso?

  Yes. I think that should be, that should be the qualification. Cause a lot of movies got punted to 2027. And I think people are excited because it has been a pretty good movie year.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  It has.

• 13:53Sam Fragoso?

  They're wondering what's going to come out.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:55Sam Fragoso?

  So that was my read of it.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Rightly so.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Do you think it's a weaker fall than it was a spring?

• 14:01Speaker 00

  We were, the only communication we had over our respective vacations was about, which is, which is a good thing. You know, you need, you need breaks.

• 14:10Sam Fragoso?

  Distances.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Was about reshoots on the David Fincher movie, or rumored reshoots. We weren't, David did not call either of us, nor am I on a first name basis with him. But reshoots on the sequel to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood with the script by Quentin Tarantino, rumored to be called The Adventures of Cliff Booth. Is that confirmed? Can you say?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I've not seen this before where we just don't know anything.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  And it's supposed to be coming out over Thanksgiving.

• 14:44Sam Fragoso?

  I'd say let's, let's assume that one is coming out.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've been told for sure it is coming out.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 14:48Sam Fragoso?

  As have I, but I, who, who the hell knows?

• 14:51Speaker 00

  But so you get news in August that they're doing reshoots on a movie that is scheduled for Thanksgiving.

• 14:59Sam Fragoso?

  It's concerning.

• 15:00Speaker 00

  And we were speaking a little more broadly with a friend of ours of just, it's a weird fall. Things keep moving. Things, as you noted, keep getting pushed to 2027. I can't figure out what's going on with Thanksgiving and why there's no giant tent pole. I still don't understand why the two biggest box office movies of the year, Avengers Doomsday and Dune Part Three are being released on the same day. I, so I don't understand the fall season, which doesn't mean that I'm not looking forward to it because there are many movies by filmmakers I love being released.

• 15:34Sam Fragoso?

  We will wade through it together.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:37Sam Fragoso?

  And, and do the best we can in a very fun and silly exercise.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  My favorite thing.

• 15:42Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know how we were going to do the draft order, but I'll just let you have the first pick and we can go that way. Unless you want to have the first pick, Amanda.

• 15:50Speaker 00

  No, that's fine. He can go for it.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Is it useful to, should we just choose any category we want? Or would you like to go in order through the categories you've listed?

• 15:58Sam Fragoso?

  You can choose the categories as you'd like with the picks.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  This is already far more civil than the drafts are usually during the.

• 16:04Sam Fragoso?

  We haven't started yet.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Well, I just, if you would like us to, if you would like us to behave, you should say so now.

• 16:10Sam Fragoso?

  I would love you to not behave.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Okay. All right.

• 16:12Sam Fragoso?

  And you can put your phones on the table for this part.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Okay. Oh, thank you so much.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  All right.

• 16:15Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  So I don't look at, look like I'm staring at my crotch.

• 16:19Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  We already had the horniness conversation. I, I'm, I'm just going to play, I'm going to play loose.

• 16:27Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  You know, I'm, I'm on, this is the away game.

• 16:30Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  You know, I'm not at home.

• 16:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  These aren't my rules. These aren't my categories. This, this is a, a, a stand in.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  Well, and so you see the tension coursing through his body.

• 16:41Sam Fragoso?

  I see that. And that's not quite how I've heard your poker game is described.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:47Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard you're pretty, pretty.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Pretty quiet, pretty chill.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, but he also.

• 16:50Sam Fragoso?

  A real like Turturro and rounders, like two hands an hour situation.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Grinding out that.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  But he also, yeah, headphones in, but so it's, it's just Sean and the cards, you know, there's, there are no other people to navigate. So now we're here and primarily me.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  No need for repartee.

• 17:06Sam Fragoso?

  I'm here.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Occasionally a villain shows up at the table, you know, someone who's really betting into you and you don't like that.

• 17:12Sam Fragoso?

  Are they always dressed in yellow?

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it feels that way certainly. Um, I'll, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go critical darling hidden gem to start with a movie that I've already seen, which is Rice Gaham Gucci's All of a Sudden. I like this movie quite a bit. I think we both do. This is his follow up to Evil Does Not Exist, which was his follow up to Drive My Car, which was nominated for best picture, Japanese filmmaker who makes these very long, deep, complex stories about people at work. And this is one about a woman who works at an elder care facility and she encounters another woman who's at a crossroads in her life and they form this fascinating relationship. This movie is like one of the least commercial films I've ever seen in my entire life. It's three and a half hours. It's, it's not in

• 17:59Speaker 02

  the English, English language. It is about taking care of old people and capitalism and its trouble. And.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  There is a 20 minute segment in the middle of the film that just involves a, a whiteboard documenting the various strata of the French capitalist system.

• 18:20Sam Fragoso?

  Does that remind you of how Sean programs a show?

• 18:23Speaker 00

  I did watch it and think the memes will be incredible. As soon as I saw the whiteboard, I was like, I know what I'm putting on this whiteboard in response to Sean. So yes.

• 18:33Sam Fragoso?

  Good.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Very lyrical, beautiful movie.

• 18:35Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard it's amazing.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  It's really, really incredible. And one of the rare movies where the runtime not just earns its length, but needs it. And you really, you're sitting there two hours in with the whiteboard and you're, you're wondering, okay, so we have an hour and a half more of this and you're not quite doubting, but you are aware of the time. And I have never really seen the time and even the specificity of pretty arcane material come together in such a transcendent and emotional way where it is, you know, it's movies as experience, a very different type of experience than Avengers Doomsday, but remarkable.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  I'm not saying I won't draft that. I might draft that too. You know, you never know.

• 19:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. So that was your, your wildcard pick. Okay, good.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  In, I'm going to take a swing since that was a swing of sorts. In best picture, it's another film that we saw at Cannes, Club Kid, written and directed by Jordan Firstman, which was, I think, among both of our favorites of the year of, at Cannes and definitely a breakout. It was acquired by A24 out of the festival and is slated for a November release, which in awards talk means this will be in the mix. But this is both a very, very drug forward, horny, New York edgy, I guess, quote unquote, movie, and also an

• 20:05Speaker 00

  incredibly classical movie about growing up and about parenting and really family. It has a lot in common with Kramer versus Kramer. And I loved it. And I really think that it's going to hit. I just, you know, A24 is obviously very talented with these sorts of things. And I think it's provocative enough to get attention, just in terms of the amount of drug lingo that Sean and I learned from the movie. And, you know, we're not up to date on that stuff.

• 20:37Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  And, but still traditional, like it just, it really has a beautiful heart. And I think even older voters will, will be like a little bit titillated, but ultimately paid off by the arc. So.

• 20:53Sam Fragoso?

  The drug language won't be too much for him.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  Well, I.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  I think it's going to go right over their heads.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think it'll go over their heads. And you don't see that much.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  It's a, it's the first, the first 20 minutes is very frank about the world in which the Firstman character exists in, which is he's a club promoter in queer clubs in New York City in, I guess, like the mid 2010s, it seems like. The movie is very, is non judgmental. And like, like Amanda said, very warm and kind of winning in a way. Like I just talked about Tony on, on, on the podcast, the Anthony Bourdain film, and very similar in terms of like, there's a kind of old fashionedness in it with a contemporary vibe that I think people will respond to as well. So I like that movie a lot.

• 21:37Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard it's great. Jordan Firstman, very talented. I will take in performer, Julianne Moore in the debut.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Hi, Miss Danielle. Thanks for coming by on such short notice.

• 21:48Speaker 00

  I have a bar to me.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Sorry, is that, um, is that how she's gonna do it?

• 21:53Sam Fragoso?

  Jerry or Mocha. It's too late for that. Of course. It's written and directed by Jesse Eisenberg. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think it's coming around Christmas time in December. And I just have a good feeling. This is gonna be a lot of them, because mine are based on feelings.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  It's a smart pick. I mean, Julianne Moore is, is beloved.

• 22:09Sam Fragoso?

  And I'm ready to kind of have a moment again, like the May-December part, where she gets to be

• 22:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:14Sam Fragoso?

  properly recognized.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  I think she's on a shortlist of people who people would be comfortable saying she deserves two Oscars. She does already have an Academy Award.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  Right, but we also want, it's still Alice. We want to make up for that.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that wasn't the best. And that was sort of, you know, there are people who really admire that film. I don't really care for it. But people, that was sort of like thought as a makeup Oscar. For somebody who could have won any number of times for shortcuts or boogie nights or all her amazing performances over the years. But, uh, I, I also am excited about this and I'm hopeful that it will be a Telluride.

• 22:43Sam Fragoso?

  Did you like Jesse Eisenberg's last movie?

• 22:46Speaker 02

  A lot.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  I did.

• 22:47Sam Fragoso?

  What was that called?

• 22:47Speaker 02

  A Real Pain.

• 22:48Sam Fragoso?

  A Real Pain. Yeah, that was good.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 22:50Sam Fragoso?

  And it makes sense that he is going this, this route. I know he loves making Now You See Me movies.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  Great actors, getting a paycheck.

• 22:59Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 00

  Doing fun stuff.

• 23:01Sam Fragoso?

  I remember when he came on the show, he said, uh, quote, "I get to be outside of myself and my body and a happy person."

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:08Sam Fragoso?

  Which is an uncommon experience for me.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Wow, I really relate to that.

• 23:11Sam Fragoso?

  And I thought-

• 23:12Speaker 02

  I gotta get in a Now You See Me movie.

• 23:13Sam Fragoso?

  And I thought, yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  You love magic.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  I love magic.

• 23:17Sam Fragoso?

  That makes sense.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:18Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Oh, so we're, oh, we're just doing like a-

• 23:21Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, do I go next?

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Well, do you want to do a snake draft?

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Snake or roundabout?

• 23:25Sam Fragoso?

  What do you guys like? I really don't.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  Well, we, we do the turn on the-

• 23:28Speaker 02

  We usually do snakes.

• 23:29Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, I'll go again.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  It'll be you again.

• 23:30Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, um, then I will, hmm.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  This is why you have to prepare, Sam. It's not as easy as it looks.

• 23:40Sam Fragoso?

  I prepared. I mainly prepared to interview you both, but I've also prepared for this.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Thank you. Yeah.

• 23:45Sam Fragoso?

  Um, okay. Uh, fuck.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, see, that we know what this feels like.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  You kind of groaning and sighing as you prepare your pick. That is the essence of movie draft podcast.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:55Sam Fragoso?

  A little too horny, but yeah.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 23:56Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  Well, now we, now we're all learning about each other, you know?

• 24:00Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, in F Y C.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:04Sam Fragoso?

  I'm gonna take Wild Horse 9.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  Oh, interesting. Sure.

• 24:08Sam Fragoso?

  This is in large part because The Banshees of Inisherin, um, didn't win anything.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:14Sam Fragoso?

  Which was a mistake, in my, in my opinion. And Martin McDonagh, very talented guy. Sam Rockwell, John Malkovich, I think both of them have a, have a kind of outside chance. Um, maybe not even outside. And I have a feeling that Searchlight will put the investment and the money in the campaign to make it a thing.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  It's doing the, the Fall Festival.

• 24:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, it's doing the Fall Festival then too.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  It's gonna start at Venice and then presumably will make its way to Colorado. Telluride is a cute thing where they don't tell you officially what's playing until the day before.

• 24:45Sam Fragoso?

  And how is that for your nervous system?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Well, I know too much now.

• 24:50Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  I have a pretty good feel for what's gonna be there, which I, I did, but a lot of it is just understanding the delineations at each other festival.

• 24:59Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  So you, you know this. I mean, if a film is going to the Toronto International Film Festival, it'll say "North American premiere." That means it's not going to be a Telluride.

• 25:08Sam Fragoso?

  That used to be a big battle between the two of them.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Um, if it says "Canadian premiere," that almost certainly means it's gonna be a Telluride.

• 25:14Sam Fragoso?

  A hundred percent.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  So, uh, with something like Wild Horse 9, we don't know, but-

• 25:18Sam Fragoso?

  My time from 18 to 22 was going to these festivals and being promised, uh, 40 minutes and then, um, of an interview with someone and then it being reduced to about nine.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:29Sam Fragoso?

  Um, and then calling an editor, being like, "I'm so sorry, we have three questions."

• 25:33Speaker 00

  That was my twenties, except I didn't get to go to the film festivals. So, congratulations.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Hard to believe you're now hosting a long-form interview show. It's like you're getting your revenge in real time.

• 25:42Sam Fragoso?

  And, and I like to think of it that way. Yes, a hundred percent. Um, a lot of credit card debt, that's how it happened.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  Okay, well, that-

• 25:48Sam Fragoso?

  Tons.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Okay, we can talk about that later.

• 25:50Sam Fragoso?

  It's been solved, thankfully.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  Oh, good. I'm glad. Okay.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Are you in any debt right now?

• 25:58Sam Fragoso?

  Next one.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Financial, moral?

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Um-

• 26:01Sam Fragoso?

  Good try.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm gonna have to rethink best performer.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  No, okay, I know what I'll do. Um, I, as of this recording, and I guess of the airing, I have not yet seen Robert Pattinson in primetime. I mean, listen, Robert Pattinson could go in any of these categories for me. One of my favorite working movie stars in terms of the movies that he chooses, the performances that he can give. He is a wonderful campaigner and press tour a person in his own right. And I think that he could be in consideration for at least three performances this year. Uh, I haven't seen June yet, but maybe that could also be on the list as well. He's certainly won Meme of the Year for "Get These Beggars Out of Here."

• 26:48Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  This is a movie about Chris Hansen?

• 26:54Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Is that, I'm just-

• 26:56Speaker 02

  That's his name. Yes.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Um, To Catch a Predator?

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Big night planned.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  Who, who are you?

• 27:03Speaker 04

  She have a seat right there.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  I'm Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC, and we're doing a story on adults who try to meet teens online.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  You see how this looks, right?

• 27:18Speaker 00

  And I think that it is gonna be a pretty classic first 10 minutes, Robert Pattinson, or if you've seen the trailer, which is available, of, "Oh, we're doing this," um, in voice, in, in, uh, persona, in campiness. And I also completely believe in Robert Pattinson then to pull it off.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Very excited about this movie.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:39Sam Fragoso?

  Me too. I cannot wait. Lance Oppenheimer, very talented guy.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 27:43Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, I, I, I think it's gonna be really good.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  I'm jealous. That was on my list. That was on my shortlist.

• 27:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, mine too.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  I guess, since performer's going fast, I'm gonna, let me see if this flies.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Since you didn't say that it needs to be performer with one film, I'm gonna choose a performer with three films.

• 28:01Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  And that, much like Pattinson had six, uh, Sandra Heuler has three.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Um, she's gonna be nominated for one of these three movies. I don't know which one. If I had to guess, I'd say Fatherland right now.

• 28:15Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Especially given the way that it was received at Cannes. We both liked it. I don't know if we absolutely loved the movie.

• 28:19Sam Fragoso?

  That's the filmmaker behind Ida.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  And Cold War. And I would say that it is ranked third in that trilogy of-

• 28:27Sam Fragoso?

  But those are pretty good movies.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Very good films.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  You know, post-war or, or Cold War, black and white dramas.

• 28:33Sam Fragoso?

  Um, is it similarly painterly and, and black and white and all this?

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Immaculately photographed. It's very good. I, I thought the ending was moving. I, I liked it a lot.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  I do too. It's very modest. It's only 77 minutes.

• 28:45Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Uh, Thomas Mann.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  72, but-

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Was it 72?

• 28:48Speaker 00

  That's what I, that's what I texted you as it ended, with credits, 77.

• 28:51Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Oh!

• 28:52Speaker 02

  So it's, it's a very brief film, very deep though, about Germany after the war. Um, and about what role men and women of culture should play in the reconstruction or lack thereof of the German identity, um, which is heady stuff.

• 29:06Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  But, you know, she's obviously an amazing performer. We were talking about Anatomy of a Fall earlier. I think that's the film where she really got on the radar of a lot of American, North American film fans. Um, and, yeah, she's kind of, everyone is caught on, so I expect to see her at the Academy Awards.

• 29:23Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I think so. That, I had that on my list as well.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  I have another pick, huh?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Um, for F Y C, I'll do La Bola Negra. I'm just, I'm just picking Cannes titles just because I'm, I can be sure of them. La Bola Negra, AKA The Black Ball, is a, uh, Spanish film that premiered at Cannes, uh, directed by Los Javies, a pair of filmmakers who were formerly boyfriends and have since broken up, but have made this massive three-hour epic across three different timelines about queer love and poetry and war and violence and, uh, generational self-hate, um, that really took my breath away at Cannes. And is a movie that, like, I didn't really know very much about. I'd not seen anything from Los Javies before.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Um, and the festival, which was a lot of fun to attend, but I would say was a fairly muted, as Cannes goes.

• 30:19Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Um, I think needed like a real kick in its ass in this movie, which is very sort of like chest out, unafraid to be a vivacious, magisterial, you know, 90s Miramax-style awards player and a film about very serious ideas.

• 30:36Sam Fragoso?

  Without Weinstein.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Minus the Weinstein, hopefully minus the chicanery. Um, Netflix picked the movie up, so it is gonna be on the Netflix streaming service at the end of this year. However, it is getting a very long theatrical release window, 47 days, I think, was the number.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Sounds right, yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Which is highly unusual for the company.

• 30:53Sam Fragoso?

  But I now understand. So they want movies in theaters or they don't want movies in theaters?

• 30:57Speaker 00

  I don't think they know.

• 30:58Sam Fragoso?

  Or they like it sometimes?

• 30:59Speaker 02

  What do you think right now?

• 31:01Speaker 00

  I think they like it sometimes. I think they want what they want, when they want it, and they don't want what they don't want, when they don't, and they have a lot of money. And I, I interpreted this as less a referendum on their-

• 31:12Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like she's running for office.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  As less a referendum on their theatrical strategy and more that they think Leblanc Negro will be a big awards contender and that, and to Sean's point about it being big and sweeping and a theatrical, like a thing you have to go see in theaters, the closest that they can get to The Odyssey, which is buying it after the fact from a film festival that they're not allowed to sit in movies to. But, and, and so they want to lean into that this is a big deal.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it feels like The English Patient. You know, it's a very big film.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  And I think they're trying to signal that it is a big deal. I, I will say, I, I had left Cannes at this point in the festival, so I didn't get to see it. And Sean and I both see a lot of movies and don't really feel the need to communicate to each other that often about it and/or we save it for the show. But this one was a rare, he texted me like walking out of the theater. This was in, you know, this was incredible. I was really blown away by it. And I only get those from Sean when they're amazing and/or the worst movie you've ever seen.

• 32:09Sam Fragoso?

  Free Guy.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  Uh, Empire of Light is a very memorable one from Telluride.

• 32:14Sam Fragoso?

  That's Sam Mendes?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:15Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, no.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  Olivia Colman, Colin Firth, and it's supposed to be about, you know, cinema.

• 32:20Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  And-

• 32:21Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, sorry. I started interrupting. Your pick?

• 32:23Speaker 00

  Let's see. So, listen, in FYC-

• 32:26Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, we're definitely listening.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  I'm definitely, I'm, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna touch the third rail. In FYC, I will take, he's laughing, but you can't, you can't derail me. In FYC, I will take Digger, the-

• 32:40Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  In a reto film starring Tom Cruise.

• 32:43Sam Fragoso?

  What?

• 32:43Speaker 00

  In FYC.

• 32:46Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Not in Best Picture.

• 32:48Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Not in Best Performance, not in Cautiously Optimistic, but in Tom Cruise-

• 32:53Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  Out and About, standing on buildings, water towers, other structures, high in the air.

• 33:00Sam Fragoso?

  The Bill Simmons podcast?

• 33:01Speaker 00

  I, I, God willing, I would love it. I don't know anything.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  We'll see.

• 33:05Speaker 00

  Tom Cruise is the movie star of our lifetimes in many ways, for both good and bad. He is fascinating. Does that mean I think the film will be good? No, I don't know. I'm not, I haven't seen it.

• 33:19Sam Fragoso?

  I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. Did you see it?

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Haven't seen it.

• 33:22Sam Fragoso?

  I, I-

• 33:23Speaker 02

  I had, I was in a screening, uh, last week, and I had a, a critic friend lean over, he was seated behind me, and say, "Hey, um, have you heard anything about Digger?" Like, there is a real cone of silence around the movie right now.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  Will I enjoy the content around it, though?

• 33:40Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Well, enjoy is interesting. Will I consume and think a lot about?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Cause these bars are getting lower and lower.

• 33:47Sam Fragoso?

  Also, you're competing against yourself. These are, these are questions-

• 33:51Speaker 00

  Listen, I, it's, it's gonna be fascinating.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  It's a great pick.

• 33:54Sam Fragoso?

  I had it in Cautiously Optimistic.

• 33:56Speaker 00

  I'm not cautiously optimistic. I'm just looking forward to it. I'm very specific.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Uh, against all my better judgment, I love the man. I don't know what to say.

• 34:04Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, I love, I, I like formative. I mean, I, I, I love his movies. Um, I'll say in Cautiously Optimistic, I'll take The Social Reckoning.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. We're not the rest. We're the public square. Are you crazy? You're like a crossing guard standing in front of the school, but you're not doing anything with your arms. So the cars are just plowing down the children.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:25Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Even with the reshoots? My guy, let's talk about it.

• 34:29Sam Fragoso?

  Were there reshoots?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I'm breaking this to you now. I'm so sorry.

• 34:34Sam Fragoso?

  It's okay.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  There were reshoots.

• 34:36Sam Fragoso?

  When, when?

• 34:37Speaker 00

  This summer.

• 34:38Sam Fragoso?

  What?

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, like three, three weeks ago. Which is way worse than the Cliff Booth thing.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  I mean, I guess you set the rules of this, so if you'd like to take it back.

• 34:46Sam Fragoso?

  No, I'm not taking it back.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  The thing, okay, reshoots are common. Let's just say for the record.

• 34:49Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Movies bake into their budgets reshooting, especially big ten pole movies.

• 34:53Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, you guys are often, for the big picture, doing constant reshooting.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Touch-ups all the time, a lot of digital, yeah.

• 34:59Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, the budget, man, that's why you had to partner with Netflix, right?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Hundreds of millions, absolutely. Uh, however, when you're getting within 10 weeks of release-

• 35:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  You don't want to be lining up reshoots. That's not ideal.

• 35:10Sam Fragoso?

  Cautiously Optimistic.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  So what is your relationship as a younger millennial-

• 35:14Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, thanks.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  -to The Social Network?

• 35:17Sam Fragoso?

  One of my favorite films.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  All right. We get a lot of feedback.

• 35:20Sam Fragoso?

  Of the last 25 years.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  So we did a project on the big picture, 25 for 25.

• 35:23Sam Fragoso?

  Don't I know it.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  Movies above the 25 years. Well, I don't know if your listeners do. I'm trying to take some-

• 35:28Sam Fragoso?

  Sorry, sorry. Plug, plug, plug.

• 35:31Speaker 00

  I'm trying to take off some of the expositional load, you know?

• 35:34Sam Fragoso?

  They do a podcast. Um, it's really good.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Thank you. So The Social Network was number one.

• 35:41Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  And, you know, we had a number of rules. You could only have one film per director on the list. And we also, we had to agree, which, um, we do have overlapping taste, but it can be quite distinct. But The Social Network was never really an argument. Um, it's always been the movie that, for us, defined a particular generation and era in movie going and what, you know, what a movie can be.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and style.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  But young people have always sort of said to us, what's the big deal? Like, that it is a real, okay, grandpa, go to bed. Um, and I understand that if you were born after Facebook, you know, died off, um, that it doesn't reveal the same things about the world or even movies to you. But I'm glad to hear that you feel that way.

• 36:26Sam Fragoso?

  So they don't like sex?

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:27Sam Fragoso?

  They don't like The Social Network?

• 36:29Speaker 00

  I guess so.

• 36:29Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I don't know what to say.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Some correlation there.

• 36:32Sam Fragoso?

  Um, definitely. Very confusing. Um, I'll take in Family Affair, The Adventures of Cliff Booth.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:39Sam Fragoso?

  Which we are told is going to come out on November 25th.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  This is a film you're gonna show to children?

• 36:45Sam Fragoso?

  I don't, I don't have children.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, so does family have to just involve our nuclear family? I was not defining it that way.

• 36:52Sam Fragoso?

  It can, it can include extended family.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Continue.

• 36:56Sam Fragoso?

  It's a film that comes out around Thanksgiving-

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 36:59Sam Fragoso?

  Or Christmas.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  I get it.

• 37:00Sam Fragoso?

  That you could presumably watch with your family. I don't know what you're showing your children. I, I can't dictate those things.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  What I've been told about the movie, which is very little, the only thing I've really been told about it, is that it is a foul-mouthed comedy.

• 37:14Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Which is unsurprising if you look at the people behind the film.

• 37:17Sam Fragoso?

  Maybe I should add some context. In my family, my mother showed me Boogie Nights, and my father showed me Goodfellas, and I think that's really all at a young age, like maybe 10 or 11.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:27Sam Fragoso?

  So I maybe not, I'm not the best to judge.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  I think that's good parenting.

• 37:30Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I, look, I turned out-

• 37:33Speaker 00

  Adventures of Cliff Booth is tricky in my family because many, or some of the scenes were filmed in my neighborhood or, you know, kind of one street nearby last summer. And they, because Fincher has a huge budget from Netflix, just, you know, had huge sets and lights and, well, not sets, but lots of staging and big cranes for the lighting and everything. And I just took my then-three-year-old son to look at the cranes because that's a thing that he likes to do.

• 38:00Sam Fragoso?

  Is that your kid's name?

• 38:01Speaker 00

  This is Knox. Yeah, it's my older son. And he has a memory like a steel trap, so he knows that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 2 was filmed near his home, and he wants to be able to see it. But-

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll take him.

• 38:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be nice.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  And IMAX.

• 38:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then, and then they're gonna call me from school and say Knox is saying some bad words again.

• 38:21Sam Fragoso?

  This also could have been Cautiously Optimistic.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  That's where I had it.

• 38:23Sam Fragoso?

  I was told also by the two of you that there were reshoots, which I, I, I guess I'm taking the movies that are recently adding new scenes to it.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Again, reshoots happen. Sometimes you learn and you want to be able to do things better, and if you have the budget and the time to be able to do it.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  I think it's a testimony to just how much more information we have about movies. Like, this is something that's been happening for many, many, many years.

• 38:43Sam Fragoso?

  But see, I, I, I don't think we have more information. I think we have more surface level information. Because all the time-

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Well, that's still information, but okay.

• 38:51Sam Fragoso?

  Well, let me just go try. Every time we have a filmmaker on, and I get to go back and like read the Premiere Magazine pieces or the, the, the things that people said-

• 39:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:01Sam Fragoso?

  About the productions, that's like all gone.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:05Sam Fragoso?

  Now, all we know is like, yeah, the, the date has been moved, or like the budget's over 30 million, but the budget numbers are never real anyway. I feel like we, I don't, it's not as interesting of information.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  I think it's just because instantaneity has allowed for people to be more cautious about what, how they communicate. They know as soon as they say something, it's going to arrive. When you were talking to a journalist who was holding a tape recorder in 1994, you were like, this may never come out.

• 39:27Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  And you're also, cause this is true as well for celebrity profiles. You go back and you read Times or Vanity Fair profiles from the 80s and 90s, and what very famous people are willing to say on the record-

• 39:38Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Changes. I think some of that is just because there are fewer outlets and fewer places to say things. So you're, um, you don't have to parcel out, well, I'm gonna tell this story over here and this, and then I'll save this for my social media clip.

• 39:51Sam Fragoso?

  Horrifying.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  And, and then I think also because even if the media was, uh, was broader, it still didn't have this intense smothering quality that we have now, so you didn't have to be quite as guarded.

• 40:03Sam Fragoso?

  It's a lot of like on-the-set BTS photos.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:06Sam Fragoso?

  Like, I, I have seen 80 photos of Greta Lee and Rebecca Ferguson in some movie.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  I'll look at 80 more.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:12Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, but I mean, of course.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  And as Sean mentioned last night on one of the movie group chats that we're on, on every single group chat, you know, I was on several about the Hoka's.

• 40:22Sam Fragoso?

  How many are you two on?

• 40:23Speaker 00

  He's on many more. He's on a lot of men-only group chats.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Well, they're not men-only. There's, there's one that has several men.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 40:31Sam Fragoso?

  You won't let women in? Is that, is that a rule?

• 40:34Speaker 02

  I'm not the arbiter of that group chat. I didn't create it.

• 40:36Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  I don't run it.

• 40:37Sam Fragoso?

  Who, who does run that?

• 40:39Speaker 02

  I'd rather not say.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  It's true that they mostly talk about, uh, Blu-rays.

• 40:42Sam Fragoso?

  Are they, are they your boss?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  No, no, my boss isn't on it.

• 40:44Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. We, when, when our boss wants to let us know about movies, he, he texts us directly.

• 40:49Sam Fragoso?

  Is it a voice memo or a phone call?

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Never a voice memo. Um-

• 40:53Speaker 02

  And we don't do voice memos.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  That's like, when you call me on the phone, I'm like, oh no, something's wrong.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 40:59Sam Fragoso?

  When was the last time you called on the phone?

• 41:02Speaker 02

  It's been a while.

• 41:03Sam Fragoso?

  Was it before or after the Netflix deal?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  We had that conversation in person.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  We did?

• 41:08Speaker 02

  I've, I've talked about this before.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  One, my parents were divorced when I was growing up and my dad, um, one of the really nice things that he did was he called me every day. He called me and my siblings every day. So I talked to my dad on the phone every day from 11 through 18. And I, I, because of that, I hate talking on the phone now. I never want to talk on the phone. So anytime someone calls me, it's always straight to voicemail unless I know it's like an urgent matter. Secondarily, um, we talk for a living professionally, like eight hours a week. We are talking all the time. So we don't really have to, we don't gotta.

• 41:38Sam Fragoso?

  Is it therapeutic to talk that much together?

• 41:42Speaker 00

  I don't know if therapeutic I would be. I think psychologically interesting is certainly, you know, I was just, I wonder whether case studies could be done.

• 41:52Sam Fragoso?

  I think they are actively, every week on the feed.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  I hope not.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are being done unfortunately.

• 41:57Sam Fragoso?

  Well, we'll delve back to that in the second half of the episode. Um, you have a pick?

• 42:01Speaker 00

  So in family?

• 42:02Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  So I'm taking the, I'm not showing my sons this because I think they would be scared. So I'm taking the more traditional, you're home with your family and until I had children, I would travel home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And on Thanksgiving and Christmas night, I would always go to the movies with my dad. So I was.

• 42:19Sam Fragoso?

  Is this back in Georgia?

• 42:21Speaker 00

  This is in Atlanta. Yes. And, and he did have a habit of picking wildly holiday inappropriate movies. For a while, we took the, we, we, we took the decision-making power away from him.

• 42:33Sam Fragoso?

  So you're going the other way with your family?

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:35Sam Fragoso?

  You've learned, you've learned the lessons of your childhood.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  But I am picking a film by a director, um, that my father and I both love, James Gray, who's already been mentioned. So I'm taking Paper Tiger.

• 42:43Sam Fragoso?

  I really liked it.

• 42:44Speaker 00

  I did too.

• 42:45Sam Fragoso?

  I really liked it.

• 42:45Speaker 00

  I think my dad would like it. I remember that we saw Two Lovers Together, which was.

• 42:50Sam Fragoso?

  That's my favorite.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  It's my second favorite, um, to Lost City of Z, but I also really love it. And also my dad and I had once, they'd go to a restaurant in that film in New York that my dad and I had once been to together, which was.

• 43:05Sam Fragoso?

  I wonder what that restaurant was.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  I think it's called San Domenico. It used to be on Central Park West. It's no longer there.

• 43:11Sam Fragoso?

  There's Adam Driver, Scarlett Johansson, and it very much plays like a B-side to, to Armageddon Time, which I also really liked.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Frankly, a B-side to most of his films. It has a lot of echoes of a lot of his movies, but.

• 43:22Sam Fragoso?

  Fathers and sons, brothers, he just cannot get away from it.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Trenched in a world of crime, a terrible incident happens and they must work their way through it for fear of consequence.

• 43:30Sam Fragoso?

  Go back to Little Odessa. Like it's been like this forever.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Yes. Um, it's a great, it's a great movie.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  It's New York. Everyone's on the take all the time. They're not gonna touch me.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  What about me? They can touch me.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Is water cooler still a category?

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:51Sam Fragoso?

  No, no.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  God, I really liked that category.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  What would you have picked?

• 43:55Sam Fragoso?

  Well, Sean, why didn't you say anything?

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll, I'll do best picture, but I'm going to talk about this as though it's a water cooler film. Uh, it's called Fjord.

• 44:04Sam Fragoso?

  I really thought I was gonna have this.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  You thought you were gonna have the Palm Door winner?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  Like in the fifth round?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  This is the Palm Door winner.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Just to set some expectations for you. Like we are being nicer.

• 44:13Sam Fragoso?

  Why do I do not be nicer? Do not be nicer.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Uh, Romanian filmmaker Christian Manju, his new movie, his first movie in four years.

• 44:22Sam Fragoso?

  Sebastian Stan?

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Sebastian Stan and Renata Reinzwe are the stars. Uh, Sebastian Stan plays a Romanian man who has moved with his family and his Norwegian wife to Norway.

• 44:32Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda got me really bad there. That was really, really good. Really good.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  This movie is about childcare, parenting and social systems within more socialist states. And how, what responsibility the state has to us and what we have to it. And, uh, it is a movie that is an amazing Rorschach test for what you think movies should do. Whether they should be moral arbiters or they should be explorations of ideas without certain, um, final thoughts. So.

• 45:09Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard it's a film that's going to cause a lot of debate, a lot of frustration online and off.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  I think so. Yes.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And it clearly made some people very angry and clearly did not make the jury at Cannes very angry. Cause I, going into the festival, I thought for sure this is going to be Manju, like one of the great international filmmakers, um, has, but had won a Palm before, but had, you know, maybe not been as recognized by, certainly in world cinema, but not in North American cinema. But it has movie stars. And yeah, one, which I moved off of in the middle of the festival for some godforsaken reason.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  I do remember, you know, in, in Europe, the theater seats are smaller. So we were crammed next to each other in the small seats. And we walked out of the theater and Sean had to stop in the lobby to kind of share publicly to, like your touchdown dance, right? To spike the football and be like, I called Fjord, just saw Fjord, I'm right about Fjord. And then somehow between that moment and the moment when we recorded our podcast, you were talked off your own self-belief and mythologizing to pick Minotaur as the Palm Door winner instead of Fjord. And you did it all in public. I watched it all happen. You do this every single time.

• 46:22Sam Fragoso?

  Do you not trust your instincts?

• 46:23Speaker 00

  No.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Not at the end. At the beginning, I'm extremely sure of myself.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Yes, we call this.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Well, when it comes to predicting movies at award shows, yeah, that's a struggle I have.

• 46:35Speaker 00

  We call this the F1 now, uh, in, in big picture land because Sean, for months and months, talked about how last year he felt that F1 would get a best picture nomination. And then when we recorded our official best big picture Oscars nominations prediction podcast, he left F1 off of the, um, his list. Sure enough, wake up at five in the morning, Oscars morning, F1 there on the best picture. It's just, he F1s.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  I have great ideas. I lack follow-through.

• 47:09Sam Fragoso?

  I feel like the follow-through is not that bad.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Well, you gotta have guts.

• 47:13Sam Fragoso?

  What do you, what do you have, like almost a thousand episodes? I think there's some follow-through.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, almost a thousand.

• 47:17Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I like, I like to work.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 47:19Sam Fragoso?

  Yes, that's true.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Okay, I have another pick. Um.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Fjord's a good pick. And I liked the movie very much. And I look forward to arguing about it. And about Scandinavia.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Is box office still a category?

• 47:29Sam Fragoso?

  No, John.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  What, what, what happened here?

• 47:31Speaker 00

  This is why I was doing the notes in the green room instead of talking to you.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  What, what?

• 47:36Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, here's what you have left, Sean. How about that? Will that help you?

• 47:39Speaker 02

  That would be really helpful.

• 47:40Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. You have Family Affair.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 47:43Sam Fragoso?

  You have cautiously optimistic.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:46Sam Fragoso?

  And that's it.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Family Affair, I'm taking Hext.

• 47:53Sam Fragoso?

  Don't even know what this is.

• 47:56Sam Fragoso?

  What is it?

• 47:57Speaker 00

  I know what it is, but I don't care. Go ahead.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  It's a Disney animated original.

• 48:01Sam Fragoso?

  Vex or Hext?

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Hext. Vex is, is my forthcoming sequel about working with Amanda. Um, I.

• 48:08Sam Fragoso?

  Seems kind of generous, actually.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  I hope it's great. I, Disney original animated feature films, big part of my history of falling in love with movies.

• 48:16Sam Fragoso?

  That's a wholesome pick.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 48:18Sam Fragoso?

  I know nothing about it, but now I know something.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  The category's called Family Affair and you're taking Cliff Booth. Like what are, what's happening?

• 48:23Sam Fragoso?

  Can I tell you, Sean, it's a reflection of my family versus yours.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  All right. I guess all families are different. What's the Hemingway quote? All?

• 48:29Speaker 00

  That's Tolstoy.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Tolstoy, Tolstoy quote?

• 48:32Speaker 00

  But yeah, you're there. Yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  What is it?

• 48:33Sam Fragoso?

  But it rhymes or something?

• 48:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, all happy families are, uh, hap, like all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way. I think that's the beginning of Anna Kramena.

• 48:41Sam Fragoso?

  Bound by unhappiness.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Maybe it's War and Peace. Anyway, it is Tolstoy.

• 48:43Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. And you've read all of Anna Kramena.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, but just that one, not War and Peace yet.

• 48:47Sam Fragoso?

  No, that's not gonna be it.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Maybe next year.

• 48:49Sam Fragoso?

  Not a chance. Not a chance.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  You know me and the Russians.

• 48:53Sam Fragoso?

  Is this, is this a big thing?

• 48:55Speaker 00

  I, well, there, I haven't done a lot of work with the Russians. That was not a part of my, uh, liberal arts education.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Am I right?

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Amen. Yeah.

• 49:04Sam Fragoso?

  Thank God.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  That's actually why I left Cannes and didn't see Minotaur.

• 49:07Sam Fragoso?

  We're hoping for a JMO episode too. This is good.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Okay, it's right around the corner.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  My next pick Sam gave to me in the doc, which is in wildcard, uh, Making Marie Antoinette, which is, which, which I was a beautiful pick and I felt seen and understood, like you did your research. But Marie Antoinette is, first of all, stars Kirsten Dunst, one of my favorite movie stars. And to me is the clearest summation of the Sofia Coppola project, um, and on the biggest canvas. And is hilarious and amazing to me that that's what she wanted to do and that she pulled it off and that it works. It is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  I'm very excited.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  And many anniversary, um.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Celebrations and among them, a documentary that Sofia Coppola's late mother Eleanor Coppola, who also directed Hearts of Darkness, had started. She was on set and was filming a lot of the footage. And then I believe that Sofia Coppola herself finished the documentary of her mother's work after she passed, which is sad and beautiful. And the, you know, Hearts of Darkness is

• 50:20Sam Fragoso?

  One of them.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  Obviously historic. And there is something very interesting about the way in which a filmmaker captures her own child and the way that a daughter of two filmmakers in Eleanor and Francis Ford Coppola talks about film and what she learned from her various parents. Eleanor Coppola was a wonderful writer as well as documentarians.

• 50:47Sam Fragoso?

  It sounds great. And it did sound like up your alley.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  It is, very much so.

• 50:51Sam Fragoso?

  I'll take in wild card, Once Upon a Time in Harlem. Now, this is William Greaves and David Greaves, set in 1972. It's this old historic footage they found, seemingly excavated from God knows where, of all the surviving Harlem Renaissance legends. And they reunite in like Duke Ellington's apartment. And it is such an amazing, the kind of thing, not dissimilar to this documentary that's going to come out, where you wonder like, how long? I had that feeling watching the Questlove documentary of Summer of Soul, where you wonder like, how long has someone been sitting on this? And where has it been?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  It's totally a match for Making Marie Antoinette too, because it's a son completing his father's work.

• 51:33Sam Fragoso?

  Exactly. And it's, I just loved it. And I feel, I hope people see it. I think Neon is putting it out. So that will be my pick.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  I, a very kind of shallow thought that I had about it was, we should just be filming more parties that have a purpose. Like that, that's basically just a social gathering.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  We should be having more parties that have a purpose, number one.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  But there's like, there was a philosophical intent to that social gathering, which was sort of like, to explicate as a participant in this movement, what you think it represented at large, and what it represented to you. To sort of define it for yourself in a group of your peers. And it creates this like amazing frictive energy amongst the participants. It's so cool.

• 52:16Sam Fragoso?

  And there's a, there's a, there's an ongoing debate throughout the film about what the Renaissance meant, when it began, when it ended, who was part of it.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  What composed it, you know, what art forms were more meaningful than others? Like, it's a really vibrant movie intellectually in that way. And I feel like we're just like, such a, like a lousy, dim, unintellectual society right now, where we don't really, like, when we do this, it's like to go to the mountains to some like billionaires retreat to talk about the future of making money through AI.

• 52:45Sam Fragoso?

  How many times have you gone to Dialogues?

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Well, I have one twice a week. So I don't, I don't, I don't have to attend any of them.

• 52:54Sam Fragoso?

  He was looking.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I found it.

• 52:55Sam Fragoso?

  I really love the movie. And I hope people see it. And I'll take in Best Picture.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Man, it's hard.

• 53:06Sam Fragoso?

  I'll do Behemoth.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 53:09Sam Fragoso?

  It's gonna get nominated.

• 53:10Speaker 00

  Behemoth, exclamation point.

• 53:12Sam Fragoso?

  To kind of bring us back to the beginning, the spring and the summer had a lot of good stuff. And the farther along you, you go in this list, because so much has been punted, it's not that robust. Like, the Oscar stuff is pretty slim.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  Or has already been released.

• 53:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, yeah, or has been released. And it's great.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  And maybe a little more mainstream, or more movies people have seen, which is, is always a good thing for the Oscars, even if it does nothing to up the Oscars television rating.

• 53:44Sam Fragoso?

  Have you two seen this movie?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I have.

• 53:46Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  And I'm forbidden from sharing my feelings about it. So I'll sit here silently.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  I haven't seen it yet.

• 53:51Sam Fragoso?

  If it's good, say nothing for five seconds.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Are you allowed to?

• 53:56Speaker 02

  I can't say anything to indicate anything.

• 53:58Sam Fragoso?

  That was the six second mark. Okay.

• 54:00Speaker 00

  I will say, for a while, we thought this movie was going to be at Venice. Then we thought this movie was going to be at Telluride. Now it's going to be at the New York Film Festival, which is a wonderful film festival, but does not immediately suggest to me that it is on a, on.

• 54:17Sam Fragoso?

  The fast track to.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  A collision course with Best Picture?

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. I could be wrong. And many great films have come out of the New York Film Festival. And the kind of festival hierarchy is shifting. We'll also say, the trailer, I was concerned that there were no words. There was no, there was no dialogue in that trailer. I understand that it's about music. And I, anyway.

• 54:40Sam Fragoso?

  I know. You like, you like movies with words. I also remember your father said this a lot.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  I do. And my, and my father, I think, at the, at my wedding, gave a toast about how he doesn't, but it's okay. And invoked Cormac McCarthy, I think. Is that right?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  That is right.

• 54:55Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  It's okay. It was a nice speech.

• 54:57Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, no, no.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  Shout out my dad.

• 54:59Sam Fragoso?

  Better for therapy, probably. Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Well, it's, you know, already done. Let's see.

• 55:03Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, you resolved it?

• 55:05Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 55:06Sam Fragoso?

  Really good job.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. I mean, I worked at it for a long time, but I did eventually graduate from therapy.

• 55:11Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, you, are you retired?

• 55:12Speaker 00

  For right now. I mean, it's sort of like an on and off, I think, has never been.

• 55:16Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I remember this from last time.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  No, I have been in therapy. I was in therapy when I was a teenager.

• 55:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, but not since then.

• 55:21Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. And you don't think it's, it's worth your time?

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Wouldn't say that. It's just not something I feel I need at the moment. I feel I need. Now, others may feel I need it, but I feel I don't need it.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  No, in general, I'm, I'm so grateful for the therapy that I had. And I think I used some important skills. And now I kind of think I'm done. And I think, I, at some point, it can be diminishing returns.

• 55:44Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I like the idea that people are going to listen to this and watch and go, yeah, these are two resolved.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  And normal, normal people.

• 55:50Sam Fragoso?

  Well adjusted folks.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  In total control.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  It is true. As he joked already, we don't need to talk about things other places.

• 55:55Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, what do you, what, what do you have left?

• 55:57Speaker 00

  So I'm cautiously optimistic yet.

• 55:58Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, great.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  And

• 56:02Speaker 00

  so you had a category previously called in the pocket of, I'm going to turn cautiously optimistic into cautiously optimistic because I am in the pocket of

• 56:13Sam Fragoso?

  Great.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Luca Guadagnino. I just want to have fun. I know that the reports on artificial are, are dubious. It is widely rumored to be the secret screening at the New York Film Festival, which, by the way, last year was Marty Supreme, one of my favorite movies of the year. This is a movie about Sam Altman, directed by Luca Guadagnino, starring Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman, that was being released by Amazon. And then Amazon dropped it over concerns about conflicts in representation and business. And was sold to Neon reportedly at a discount.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  And now Neon is releasing it this fall. Whether or not it's good, really could be up in the air. I thought that 90 to 100 minutes of Luca Guadagnino's last movie, starring Julia Roberts, help me with the name here.

• 57:11Sam Fragoso?

  After the Hunt.

• 57:12Speaker 00

  After the Hunt.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Yes. Not a very memorable movie, in my opinion.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Well, I remember certain things about it very clearly and with a great enjoyment.

• 57:21Sam Fragoso?

  I love the credit sequence and the font. I thought that was great.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  It's sure. Well, yeah, that was a Woody Allen joke.

• 57:26Sam Fragoso?

  Really good. It just reminded me.

• 57:28Speaker 00

  There was a beautiful striped couch in that psychotherapist's office, speaking of, that is much nicer than any of the couches my therapist's ever had. Anyway, artificial.

• 57:38Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, artificial.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Don't be cowards. Just show it to us.

• 57:42Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, I agree.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Do I have a pick?

• 57:44Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Okay, is it, what is it? Cautiously optimistic?

• 57:47Sam Fragoso?

  John, Best Performer.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  No, I picked that already. Sandra Heuler.

• 57:52Sam Fragoso?

  Fuck, you did.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  That's what I said. This is what it's like to podcast with me, Sam. You want it in.

• 57:58Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  I will take, what movie? Inc.

• 58:03Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  New Danny Boyle, new Danny Boyle film.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  I'm also cautiously optimistic.

• 58:07Sam Fragoso?

  I had this on the list, too.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  I'm excited about this movie. An enterprising reporter who goes to work for Rupert Murdoch's versioning newspaper empire, yes.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  And so I think it's Rupert Murdoch's kind of invasion into the UK and Fleet Street. And Guy Pearce plays Rupert Murdoch, Jack O'Connell plays one of the reporters, Claire Foy is also in it because she's British, and wonderful, and one of my favorite working actors. I'm, I'm excited. I love a newspaper story.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  I get the impression that it's not a big blustery Oscar movie, that it's just like, kind of an adult drama, which is what I think like artificial is going to turn out to be. Like, I think a lot of these movies that we're talking about, which we want to confer this kind of great importance on, are just going to be movies for adults, which is something that like, we've been talking about on the show for the last year or so, that there does seem to be like some tide shifting, where it's like, it's okay if a movie that stars Guy Pearce and Jack O'Connell doesn't make $300 million, and just goes to Netflix, and we sit down and we watch it and we enjoy it. Like, I, I'm, in this phase of my life, I'm choosing to accept that.

• 59:08Sam Fragoso?

  You're putting in the work. And why don't we talk about how you guys do that after the break? That's coming up next with Amanda Dobbins and Sean Finacy. After I come home from a trip, the places I remember most usually aren't the ones I planned to visit in the first place. Let me give you an example. I was doing a few tapings in Philadelphia just a few months back. And in between those tapings, I'd have just a little bit of time to wander. And one morning, I found myself walking through this neighborhood called Society Hill. And it was early in the morning, there weren't that many people awake. I was grabbing a coffee. And all of a sudden, I noticed that a bookstore was just beginning to open. And I kind of sheepishly, but excitedly walked

• 59:49Sam Fragoso?

  into this bookstore. And evidently, those are the moments I remember most about the trip. They tell you more about a city than any guidebook ever could. And honestly, that's one of the reasons I've been thinking about listing my space on Airbnb. Especially when I'm away, whoever stays there gets to experience a part of Los Angeles that I've come to know and love. Not just the landmarks, but the rhythm of an actual neighborhood, a place with a kitchen, a comfortable space to come back to, and of course, a chance to feel connected to the city, instead of simply passing through it. And if listing my space also helps offset the cost of my own travels, well, we'll call that a happy accident. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host.

• 1:00:36Sam Fragoso?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Everything at MUBI is handpicked with an emphasis on visionary filmmakers and movies worth discovering. One new movie is called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma from writer-director Jane Seanbrin, who made the film I Saw the TV Glow. The film stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson. It follows a young director tasked with resurrecting Camp Miasma, a once beloved slasher franchise that after years of sequels has fallen out of favor. Looking for inspiration, she visits the reclusive actress who starred in the original film. But what begins at attempt to revive the franchise soon pulls the two women into a blood-soaked world of desire, fear, and delirium.

• 1:01:20Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie for one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/talkeasy. That's MUBI, M-U-B-I dot com slash talkeasy for a whole month of great cinema for free. I think the best clothes you own are probably the ones you spend the least amount of time thinking about. They're just there when you need them. The sweater that goes with everything. The perfect pair of pants or the tee you always reach for first. That's what I've always liked about Quince. They focus on everyday staples made with premium materials like organic cotton, merino wool, and 100% Mongolian

• 1:02:05Sam Fragoso?

  cashmere. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60, and everything is designed to be versatile enough to work with what you already own. And now that the temperatures are starting to drop, they also have premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear. Easy layers that can carry you through the fall and into winter. I've had a few of their merino wool all season tees for just over a year now, and they've really become my go-to in my wardrobe. The quality was the thing that surprised me when I first tried them out. They're comfortable, easy to layer, and after a year of wearing them regularly, they've held up remarkably well. I use them all the time and would absolutely recommend them. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, which allows them to price everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands.

• 1:02:50Sam Fragoso?

  So you're paying for the quality of the materials rather than a big brand markup. It's not just clothing. Quince brings that same approach to hotel-quality bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, and thoughtfully designed furniture. Well-made pieces for everyday living. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. You can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was talkeasy. It's really the best way to support the show. Enjoy.

• 1:03:38Sam Fragoso?

  So that was the movie draft. Really, you guys are very good at this.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  What'd you think? That was your first?

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Sam Fragoso?

  Um, if I came on your show, I'd be more aggressive and prepared, but I spent most of my time preparing to actually just do an interview with you guys. I like my picks, though. I felt pretty confident about it. You guys clown me for The Social Reckoning.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Haven't heard the best things about it. That's, you know, I'm just being honest.

• 1:04:04Sam Fragoso?

  That's why I was cautiously optimistic.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  Did you enjoy the film being the Ricardos?

• 1:04:09Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, because Aaron Soren, did he write that?

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  He wrote and directed it.

• 1:04:12Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  It's about how someone made a phone call at the last minute so Lucy didn't have to.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  J. Edgar Hoover saved.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  I Love Lucy.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Sam Fragoso?

  I still ridiculously and stupidly like The Newsroom and Jeff Daniels and Emily Mortimer. It is complete nonsense, and I realize that.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  I'm with you, Sam.

• 1:04:31Sam Fragoso?

  And so I want to go back to 2011.

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:04:35Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda, you're working at New York Magazine. Sean, I think you're a senior editor at GQ. Before you two met in the fall of that year, I think it was at a Christmas party, what did you, how was it going for you guys?

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  I wanted to work at New York Magazine.

• 1:04:49Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  I was working for the website. I started at Vulture and then did get to start writing magazine pieces because I worked there for Adam Moss, an absolute legend and someone who gave young people careers and just said, let's try this person. He saw the talent in everyone. And in addition to being one of the great editors, who's kind of suffused the entire magazine with his sensibility. So in that part, in that sense, I was doing very well. I was also 27, yes, 27, and clueless and in New York and not making very much money. And I wasn't Tina Brown. And that era of becoming a magazine editor and specifically a Conde Nast

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  editor and that being a viable profession, that was crumbling even when we were there. We had survived the financial crisis sort of and the shuttering of a lot of magazines, but it was a very remarkable difference. So.

• 1:05:50Sam Fragoso?

  Was the same true at GQ at that time?

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  I think it's a little hard for me to have perspective on that. I had, I had had worked at mostly music magazines up until that point, and then Vibe folded in 2009 where I was working as the music editor. And I had a little bit of an interregnum between magazines. I worked at this company called E-Music in 2010 and.

• 1:06:13Sam Fragoso?

  That feels very 2010.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  I was an editor, but I was like a merchandising manager at that company. And I thought I had kind of like, maybe missed, like lost, like I just, like I wasn't, I felt ascendant until that point where I was getting better and better jobs at magazines. And then when I got to that job, I was like, okay, well, maybe I'll just be like a freelance writer and I'll have kind of a day job that's a satellite to this space. And then I got the job at GQ. And the job was editing the website, which to me was very exciting, but was clearly kind of second class at the magazine. So even though I was writing for the magazine on a pretty consistent basis, I wasn't really a decision-maker at the magazine. And at the magazine, it still felt like Valhalla. It was like.

• 1:06:59Sam Fragoso?

  The Jim Nelson era.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  It was a Jim Nelson era. Every person in that room was whip smart. It felt incredibly experienced, felt cooler and smarter than me. It was still very aspirational for me because I was like, okay, I got another chance to get back into this thing and I'm going to kind of pour everything I have into GQ.com, which was really, really hard to do, given how Conde Nast thought about the internet at that time.

• 1:07:19Sam Fragoso?

  I don't think they thought much of it.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  At least not financially. I mean, they just really were not willing to turn much over to it. And they were turning so much over to the print product. So I was struggling, but kind of content. I was like, okay, I like, I made it into that building in Bryant Park.

• 1:07:36Sam Fragoso?

  You both were in similar spots around 2011.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Sam Fragoso?

  So, so my understanding is that there's a holiday party for New York Magazine at a bar called The Wooly. Is that, is that how this goes?

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  I think so. I think so.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  I, it's what I remember as well. I had met my husband, Zach Baron, who works at GQ. He always gets mad when I don't say his last name. A few months before.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  He's like the president of a small nation.

• 1:08:01Speaker 00

  He's just like giving me the byline. He'll, I mean, anyway.

• 1:08:05Sam Fragoso?

  He's, he's a very good writer.

• 1:08:07Speaker 00

  Thank you. Very.

• 1:08:08Sam Fragoso?

  I love his profile. Speaking of someone still trying to do the profiling of yesteryear.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:14Sam Fragoso?

  Zach is right there.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  One of the last.

• 1:08:16Sam Fragoso?

  Was that sufficient name checking?

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, thank you so much. But so I had met Zach at press screenings for movies before. And, but I don't know that you were at any of those press screenings.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 1:08:28Sam Fragoso?

  You met after a press screening of What's Your Number?

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:08:32Sam Fragoso?

  With Anna Faris.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  Yes. And, and Chris Evans.

• 1:08:35Sam Fragoso?

  Which, which, did you ever think, if that movie was better, maybe you two wouldn't have something like to commiserate over afterward?

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  So in fact.

• 1:08:43Sam Fragoso?

  This is kind of like your butterfly effect moment here.

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  It's true. In fact, we were not commiserating. And as I recall it, Zach was saying rather controversial things about the film, not in a positive way.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  It's like Caesar and Cleopatra. It's just an amazing romantic origin story. Is that how you describe it?

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Well, speaking of J. Edgar Hoover, we saw, we ran into each other at many other movie screenings, including J. Edgar. Which was the same day that Drake's Take Care came out.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it was very.

• 1:09:12Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of J. Edgar, we had a lot of wiretapping.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  But I remember sitting next to him during this terrible movie.

• 1:09:18Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  And I didn't really know him and I didn't really know if I liked him, but there weren't that many seats left. So he was like, you can sit here. So if that one had been better.

• 1:09:26Sam Fragoso?

  But at this holiday party, Sean, you have said, when you met Amanda for the first time, quote, "That was also the time, that was also the moment where I identified that you and Zach were going to get married." So I want to know, how did you know that in December of 2011?

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  I mean, maybe that's overstating it a little bit, but I knew immediately something was happening. And that, and I didn't know that something was, had really gone on before that because he hadn't really mentioned her to me.

• 1:09:51Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  But I was just, I was trying to be like fun guy at the holiday party where I was like, oh, I'm with my friend and I just met this girl and we're having like a funny conversation. Oh, she works at New York Mag. She must be cool. And within like 90 seconds, I was like, they don't want me here.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Like, I have to leave.

• 1:10:10Speaker 00

  I sort of remember this, actually.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. And.

• 1:10:13Sam Fragoso?

  Did he felt like a third wheel?

• 1:10:15Speaker 00

  I think that he understood that he was just gonna move.

• 1:10:20Sam Fragoso?

  Pink Panther way.

• 1:10:20Speaker 00

  Conversation. And despite all evidence to the contrary, Sean can be socially deft when he needs to be. So.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  It is hard to believe.

• 1:10:28Speaker 00

  He saw his way out of that.

• 1:10:29Sam Fragoso?

  Even when it's a compliment, it's a little backhanded.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  It's my lifestyle. Yeah, so I watched them hit it off. And I don't, were you dating very shortly after that?

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  Well, yes, we started dating around then, but it was fairly casual, is one way of putting it. And/or Zach was 29 and, you know, behaving as 29-year-olds do in New York. And you and Chris Ryan, our colleague and good friend, and also a friend of my husband's.

• 1:10:59Speaker 00

  Moved to Los Angeles for Grantland. And so my husband looked around and was like, oh, most of my friends don't live here anymore. I guess I can have a serious girlfriend now.

• 1:11:09Sam Fragoso?

  Oh.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  That's not how he communicated it.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  I don't think that's what happened, but that's what Amanda says.

• 1:11:13Speaker 00

  But I do actually, you were talking about what ifs. I, I think that if not for Grantland, Zach and I would not be married. So, thank you, Bill Simmons.

• 1:11:19Sam Fragoso?

  Did you thank Disney in your vows?

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  They did, they did move me out to Los Angeles. They literally paid for my move. It was great.

• 1:11:28Sam Fragoso?

  So just one finer question. He identified the two of you were going to get married.

• 1:11:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:35Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 1:11:35Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, that's some good post, you know, editorialization. This, a version of what you're saying was Sean's toast at our wedding, which was wonderful and very moving. But so, you know, Sean is magazine trained and is a great writer and editor. And so he knows how to like, he knows how to-

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  Spinning a yarn.

• 1:11:54Speaker 00

  He knows how to find the pull quote. But I do think, yes, that we knew that there was something. That, that was the night that we were like, oh, okay. Maybe something is going to happen here.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  I will say, I, I vividly recall having a conversation with Zach about Amanda in a later December before I moved. That was like, this might be real, basically.

• 1:12:16Sam Fragoso?

  Unpocketed.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:18Sam Fragoso?

  That's very sweet.

• 1:12:18Speaker 00

  But that was not communicated to me for several months.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Whatever story that she tells herself about our extraction from the city becoming-

• 1:12:25Speaker 00

  Listen, there was a, I mean, there was an incident on St. Patrick's Day where it was sort of like a 10:30, you know, not quite you up sort of thing, but we had plans. And then we did not have plans until much later. And I was like, this is unacceptable. We did not get to celebrate St. Patrick's Day together appropriately. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But it was on St. Patrick's Day and that's when he kind of got it together. But listen, you know, dating in your twenties and I survived dating in my twenties in Brooklyn, New York, so.

• 1:12:53Sam Fragoso?

  And honestly, an award you should receive.

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  Thanks so much. Thank you.

• 1:12:57Sam Fragoso?

  Congratulations.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:12:58Sam Fragoso?

  It sounds like this would be like the basis of what would become the big picture. Is that how it felt for you, meeting a bunch of guys?

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:13:05Sam Fragoso?

  Talking about comic books?

• 1:13:06Speaker 00

  I vividly remember Sean and Andy and Sean, other Sean, Sean Howe, sitting across the table from me and just dropping a lot of things that quite frankly, like I had just never heard some of these words uttered before.

• 1:13:21Sam Fragoso?

  Like, like what?

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  I, I mean, at that point, Thanos? Like, was Thanos in that one?

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  He appears in The Stinger from the film The Avengers.

• 1:13:29Speaker 00

  Why would I know who that is?

• 1:13:30Sam Fragoso?

  You're saying it like it's a racial slur.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  In some ways to Amanda, he would become that.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  In 2012, I just can't, and I was pop culture conversant and had, had read many things, had spoken to a lot of people and the comic book world was, just did not exist to me. I just didn't know anything about it. And these men did, and they were passionate about it.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  We were.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  And at that point, I don't think I had the disdain that I do now and am trying to let go of because I hadn't been through quite-

• 1:14:02Sam Fragoso?

  It was fresh.

• 1:14:02Speaker 00

  It was not 15 years of people saying, saying Thanos at me, you know? Though that became a good bit.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  And I don't think I felt that night, I was like, oh, I've got a chemistry with that person. You don't think that way. You're just like, that's a person that I kind of know. This is an opportunity for me to be a bloviating clown, but in a, in an entertaining way, hopefully. Like, that's kind, and that was, that's sort of my social strategy.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do think that many of the Ringer podcasts are based on the DNA. And we say this often of the, if not the smartest person at the bar, then the person who is trying to be the smartest and the funniest at the bar. And much of that is based on all of us drinking a little too much from the years of 2004 to 2012 and trying to impress each other at Flatbush Barn, you know? Or, or similar, or Charlene's, or The Magician, or, you know, insert bar of that era. Shout out Botanica forever. So I, I think that we didn't recognize it as commoditizable in that moment,

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  but we were certainly, it was a very important part of our training, as important as the magazine part.

• 1:15:12Sam Fragoso?

  So that was the training. Then 2016 comes around, The Ringer's created. I think just, yeah, we're a decade in.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Amanda got married three days before The Ringer launched.

• 1:15:22Sam Fragoso?

  So let's skip ahead then, because when you start the show, it's just you, Sean. You're interviewing filmmakers. I think it came from Bill Simmons. You said, quote, "He was tired of hearing me talk about movies." And he said, "Why don't you do a podcast?"

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Sam Fragoso?

  What's the conversation that was had between you two or between you and Bill? That, that said, okay, it's time to have a co-host?

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  I remember vividly, and if I've told this already, I apologize.

• 1:15:47Sam Fragoso?

  I don't think you have.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  He told me he wanted the show to go to twice a week and that it was, should have its own feed. And I was like, sounds good, boss. I guess this is something I'm doing. A lot of our friends and colleagues had already had shows. Amanda already had a show. She was on a show called Jam Sessions. She's still on.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  And I had never done like a chat show, but the rewatchables, I think, had started around this time. And I had made a couple of appearances on there. And I think it was a couple of appearances on there that encouraged Bill to be like, you should really pursue this as more of an enterprise, not just your job. I was the editor in chief of the website at the time. And I had, the first episode I did after this announcement had been made was with Paul Dano. And he was on for his film Wildlife and we had a nice conversation. It was like 40, 45 minute chat. And I love that movie. And I love him as an actor and, you know, I-

• 1:16:40Sam Fragoso?

  Great podcast guest.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  He's a really, really thoughtful, smart guy.

• 1:16:43Speaker 00

  Also maybe best Carey Mulligan performance.

• 1:16:45Sam Fragoso?

  I think so.

• 1:16:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  So anyway, I was really happy with that episode. And he called me and he was like, this is not right. This is not, he was like, the interview, he was like, the interviews are fine. You know, I'm sure that was a good chat that you had with Paul and I'm certain he didn't listen to it. I would love to know the number of interviews on the big picture that Bill's listened to. I think it's probably less than 10.

• 1:17:09Sam Fragoso?

  Do you think you heard the Spielberg one?

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  I do. Because we talked about it.

• 1:17:14Sam Fragoso?

  Under 10 is pretty low because you've done hundreds.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  I've done hundreds. But he was like, you need to have like a topper segment that is a conversation about the world of movies at the top of this, which is like something I kind of knew he wanted, but I'm not sure that I was so interested in doing that specifically. In part because I knew, I knew what had happened to him, which is you become a slave to your show. And once you start doing that, then you're on the treadmill. And I maybe wasn't sure if that was something I felt I could do, given the other things I was doing. But I was like, okay, I understand. And Amanda and I had already done a couple of episodes like this at least, where you came on and we talked about Mother, the Darren Aronofsky film.

• 1:17:53Speaker 00

  Yes, I remember that.

• 1:17:53Sam Fragoso?

  When he brought this up, you laughed right away at this. Do you remember this moment as well?

• 1:17:57Speaker 00

  Well, I think it started as, come do Oscars with me. We always watched them together and that, and, and argued about them. And so that seemed very natural.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were doing that as friends.

• 1:18:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and also the prospect of just disagreeing loudly with Sean, which was something that was very natural to me. I remember arguing about the last season of Mad Men in the dearly departed Hot Bird, another Brooklyn bar.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  So anyway, yes, it was because Wildlife came out in October. It was a fall, it was the fall. We were getting ready to start covering the Oscars as we are right now. And I asked Amanda if she would join me to do the show to talk about the Academy Awards. And I don't, I don't remember if it was presented as like, this is a permanent condition. Get ready for the next 10 years of your life.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  No, and I certainly wasn't because-

• 1:18:44Sam Fragoso?

  Well, why don't we talk about the next 10 years of your life? Amanda, your father famously gave you a piece of advice. He told you this, when you're starting a new job, he said, "Try to be the person who brings the solutions and not the problems."

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  Is that famous now?

• 1:18:59Sam Fragoso?

  It is now.

• 1:19:00Speaker 00

  Congratulations, Knox Dobbins.

• 1:19:01Sam Fragoso?

  Is that how you approached your role in The Big Picture?

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:19:06Speaker 00

  But I do think that I know my role very well. I know what my job is.

• 1:19:11Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:19:12Speaker 00

  And-

• 1:19:12Sam Fragoso?

  And what do you think that is?

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  It is to be Sean's foil. It is to, just to get him as off course as I possibly can, while also still achieving the goals of the show, which I do understand to be sort of a magazine in podcast form about the, the world of movies, a thing that we both really love. And we, you know, we don't really talk-

• 1:19:42Speaker 00

  Well, we talk all the time, but we don't have a lot of like, status update conversations. We don't really like to brainstorm together. Sean prefers to brainstorm in the middle of the night into a Google spreadsheet, which is fine, because we do have a shared language and understanding. And so, he's never articulated to me, okay, well, so we'll do this front of book here, and then we'll have, you know, this will be, this will be the well feature, and I'm gonna move this here because of XYZ. But it's very evident to me and the architecture of the show, and I understand all of that language, because we both have magazine trading. And beyond that, I guess, I understood that we're supposed to have chemistry, and I know what my chemistry is with Sean, which is to poke at him. Someone needs to.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  I think it's deeper than that.

• 1:20:28Sam Fragoso?

  How so?

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  I think we're real friends.

• 1:20:30Speaker 00

  We are.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  We're real friends, you know? Like, we have a dynamic, and we have bits, but we're actually friends.

• 1:20:36Sam Fragoso?

  The Da Mob.

• 1:20:38Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:39Sam Fragoso?

  Growing contingent.

• 1:20:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:20:41Sam Fragoso?

  What would you say are the defining characteristics of Da Mob?

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  Someone who knows what they like.

• 1:20:46Sam Fragoso?

  Sean smiled very widely at that.

• 1:20:48Speaker 00

  Um, so, just to be clear, I did not invent this. I don't know who, I don't, I don't know where it started. And at some point, it's really not for me, you know? It's not any of my business. I appreciate it as sort of a shorthand for someone who listens to the show.

• 1:21:04Sam Fragoso?

  Are you two going into the subreddits about, about the show and looking?

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  I've been there. It's not something I would recommend.

• 1:21:11Sam Fragoso?

  It's very interesting.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  No. Again, that's really not for us.

• 1:21:15Sam Fragoso?

  It's really quite hard.

• 1:21:16Speaker 00

  Here's the thing, truthfully.

• 1:21:18Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  It doesn't exist to us, if you don't look at it. It just, it just really doesn't exist. And I hope those people are well in their personal and professional lives, and have healthy relationships.

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  It's very funny to me specifically, because for years, you know, when I was working as the editor in chief, and, and working, and like, managing a lot of people at The Ringer, I was the one who had to really encourage people not to look at that stuff. And it was, it's because it's very strange to be talked about in any, in any form. And, and now, of course, we have an incredibly toxic subreddit.

• 1:21:48Speaker 00

  Um, the thing I always try to say to younger people is, um, I mean, and, and maybe you have a robust subreddit life. Uh, and also, I don't want to denigrate subreddit life, because the, the community of people talking about, like, feeding an infant at 3:00 a.m. on Reddit is very valuable, and sometimes you just need the community space. But I don't really know anyone who posts on subreddits. I just don't. I've never really met a person who spends that much time in comments sections. I just, I don't interact with those people. And so, they, they are, have their own truths. And I guess it's a little weird to be a character in their interior lives, but also, it doesn't really affect me.

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  So, good luck to them, honestly.

• 1:22:35Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, Sean?

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  I, I agree. I agree.

• 1:22:39Sam Fragoso?

  It's very hard. I, I, I'm not as disciplined as you two are. I, I don't have a robust Reddit life, though. I wanna, wanna make that clear.

• 1:22:45Speaker 00

  Okay. And you're not, like, you don't have a shadow account, or a burner?

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  To me, the thing that I always say about this is that, I felt like the first 10 years of my life, I was working into active public anonymity. Like, I was putting things out all the time that had my name on them, and you'd get no feedback. Like, when you write for a magazine?

• 1:23:03Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, you don't know.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  I could, I could have a 5,000-word piece in a national magazine, and you wouldn't get a letter to the editor? You wouldn't get a note from, from a colleague? It would just be like, well, that happened, and it's over. And now...

• 1:23:15Sam Fragoso?

  It's constant.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  If I post a tweet with even the vaguest of opinions, there will invariably be some sort of commentary attached to that. So, there is a kind of emotional whiplash that comes with that. But I think what Amanda said is, you have to just try to tune it out.

• 1:23:28Sam Fragoso?

  So, evidently, though, I mean, despite that, a Da Mob member is who?

• 1:23:33Speaker 00

  Yes, so again, it's not, not for, it's not for me to say. And, and I don't even have an opinion on how it's spelled. I'm told that there is some argument of whether it's 2Bs versus...

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  2Bs, 2Bs.

• 1:23:43Speaker 00

  I also, I think that it should be 2Bs, 2Bs. Were I the editor of the Da Mob, I would do that. But again, I'm not.

• 1:23:49Sam Fragoso?

  But you are the leader of it.

• 1:23:50Speaker 00

  Well, you should, I accept that mantle and appreciate it.

• 1:23:53Sam Fragoso?

  By default.

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  But it's their thing, you know? It's for them. I, what I want for them is to be a person who knows what they like.

• 1:24:03Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 1:24:03Speaker 00

  To enjoy what they like, to not spend that much time worrying about the stuff that they don't like, be it a superhero movie, or people on a subreddit.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  It's kind of a Marx-Lennon situation, you know? Where like, we, we have Marx, but what we need is the Lennon of the Da Mob.

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

  And, um, they, they appreciate movies, but they also appreciate the other aspects of life. They, to, to, to quote a rant, sometimes they go outside. They have hobbies.

• 1:24:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  Uh, and then they log back on, and they are respectful to other people, except for Sean.

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  That's where it formed. That was what it formed. That's, that's what it formed around.

• 1:24:42Speaker 00

  It's about getting offline.

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:44Sam Fragoso?

  Getting offline, away, away from the cinema.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  That was the originating philosophy.

• 1:24:47Speaker 00

  Not away from the cinema. It is about getting away from just like, the very, very intense online fan culture that has really, really thrived, and pushed the success of superhero movies, but is now replicated in any other, um, culture. I think of just, people a little, posting a little too much. Honestly, just getting a little too much on their subreddit.

• 1:25:10Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, there's a lot of subreddit.

• 1:25:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Sam Fragoso?

  And something that Sean now, that is always on the subreddit, is a catchphrase of yours, "We're so back, it's so over", which you have said, quote, "Would be fine by me if that's what I'm remembered for."

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want there to be a banner at my wake, over my coffin. Well, I wanna be cremated, but over, over the urn, it says "It's so over".

• 1:25:30Sam Fragoso?

  Who would you select to give the eulogy?

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  Chris.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Probably. I mean, I think my brother would probably have a thing or two to say about me, but I, I spend, I spend a lot...

• 1:25:41Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, not Chris, your brother, your brother.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, my other brother. But CR is a tremendous orator. And, um, and knows me as well as anyone, honestly. Short of Eileen, he knows me as well as anyone.

• 1:25:54Sam Fragoso?

  Well, CR, um, has sent a question for us, and he wanted to play it.

• 1:25:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:25:59Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of him, so why don't, why don't take a listen to that?

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:06Speaker 05

  What's up, Sam? Uh, my name is Sheriff Rango. First time, long time. Big fan of the show, man, and big fan of the big picture. Keeps me warm out here on the range. Just wanted to ask Sean and Amanda, uh, if they could talk a little bit about the Big Picture cinematic universe, the expanded Avengers Brotherhood of guests that repeatedly come on the show and bring their own unique perspective, especially Tracy Letts, who seems to have become something of a, of a third host. And, uh, it's, it's just been remarkable to see a guy like that get an opportunity, finally, uh, to express himself on a, on a big stage, as you will.

• 1:26:48Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll hang up and listen, and Sam, keep on trucking, brother.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  I like the inference that because his name is Sheriff Rango, he has to be on the range. Like, is Rango named that because he works on the range?

• 1:27:04Sam Fragoso?

  You would know, Sean.

• 1:27:05Speaker 00

  I think only you know what happens.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  I'm the only man who's seen Rango.

• 1:27:07Sam Fragoso?

  I, I saw it, but I forgot.

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27:09Sam Fragoso?

  Um, third chair, you know, we're coming up on the midterms.

• 1:27:12Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:27:13Sam Fragoso?

  And another election in the state of California, I've heard, is being held for the third chair of the Big Picture.

• 1:27:17Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:27:18Sam Fragoso?

  Tracy Letts and Chris Ryan are on the ballot.

• 1:27:20Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:20Sam Fragoso?

  Thoughts?

• 1:27:21Speaker 00

  Well, Van Lathan is trying to, has, I think, has made a formal declaration.

• 1:27:26Sam Fragoso?

  Really? I think, I think that may just be a write-in.

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  That he, well, you know, I think that, is that allowed in the state of California?

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, many such cases. Um, I mean, what should we say?

• 1:27:35Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I mean, what did you think of Chris's, uh, plea?

• 1:27:39Speaker 02

  That was Sheriff Rango, was it not? Um, I think it's really funny, because it exposes a vulnerability in Chris that is very uncommon. It's very rare to see him unnerved.

• 1:27:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  He really doesn't like this. Uh, there's, there's an obvious reason why.

• 1:27:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  He, he works really hard for the Big Picture. Like, he's on the show a lot.

• 1:27:59Sam Fragoso?

  He works really hard for The Ringer.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he does, he does.

• 1:28:01Sam Fragoso?

  Boy, oh, boy.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  But he doesn't have to do what he does for our show. He, he's on our show pretty frequently, like, three, sometimes four times a month, and he's on every movie draft. And, and he and I are really close compatriots, and Amanda and Chris are really close compatriots. Like, we, we are in our lives very closely. So, someone like Tracy comes along, who's a very accomplished person, who also is born to podcast, and he comes on, and the response is extremely positive to someone like him. And it's rare to see Chris get knocked off his perch a little bit.

• 1:28:35Speaker 00

  I mean, I, I do think, you know, Chris takes it seriously. There's a great clip from one episode that Tracy was on, when, you know, Chris closes the laptop, and you know that it's a game on. My constituents.

• 1:28:46Speaker 04

  They are the people of America, my friend. They're the people in the streets. And they want to see more of what I'm cooking.

• 1:28:53Speaker 00

  He's really, it's Chris Ryan is gonna, is gonna stand up and take the chair. I do also think it's just indicative of the fact that Chris Ryan, to quote Mina Kimes, another, a friend of ours, is the greatest living podcaster, which I think is true. And he knows a good bit. And it's a great bit.

• 1:29:11Sam Fragoso?

  But if you had to choose one, a third chair.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  It's not really how it works.

• 1:29:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  It's more of a cosmic delineation.

• 1:29:18Sam Fragoso?

  No.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Well, if you say, if you say it's an election, then who, then shouldn't the electorate have a say?

• 1:29:24Sam Fragoso?

  Would you put that to a vote?

• 1:29:26Speaker 00

  Do you think that we should clarify for your listeners that when we're just talking about Tracy Letts, it is the same Tracy Letts who wrote August Ossich County, like the Pulitzer Prize winning and Tony winning.

• 1:29:38Sam Fragoso?

  Married to Carrie Coon.

• 1:29:39Speaker 00

  Some other guy we met named Tracy Letts, who was like pretty good at podcasting?

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  I've said to Tracy, if he really wants to make this a battle, then what he needs to do is one, move to Los Angeles, because all episodes are filmed in person. Two, he needs to come with us on Monday nights to see the Dog Stars, because Chris is coming with us to see the Dog Stars. You need to, you need to do the work to be the full-time, active third chair.

• 1:30:02Sam Fragoso?

  Well, I'll, I'll give him credit. He did do the work in sending a question.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:30:05Speaker 00

  Oh, boy. Okay.

• 1:30:07Sam Fragoso?

  This was sent to me right after we started recording, so I have no clue what he said.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 1:30:13Sam Fragoso?

  Trying to, trying to make it special for you guys.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  This is like, this is your life or something, you know, like a 50s game show where something is revealed to us about ourselves.

• 1:30:22Speaker 04

  Hello, Sam. My name's Jack Willie Hoops. I'm calling from Yarnold, Texas. I was just outside Amarillo. And I'm calling to ask Sean and Amanda about this third chair situation. I just don't understand why this is even a problem. It seems to me pretty apparent that Mr. Letts would be the best possible third chair these folks could hope for. Now, I like the little fella. He's a lot of fun. He's, he wears those hats.

• 1:31:03Speaker 04

  He's got a, you know, he's got a kind of a smart, alleykey way about him, but I got to say, Mr. Letts just brings a lot of charm and expertise to this, to this project. And it just seems to me so obvious that he is the way forward for the big picture. I hope, I hope they'll consider the people when they're making this decision. Thank you very much.

• 1:31:39Sam Fragoso?

  Wow.

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  There we go. Listen, another person who knows a good bit, who understands narrative.

• 1:31:45Sam Fragoso?

  Almost like he's a writer.

• 1:31:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:31:48Sam Fragoso?

  Amazing.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  Joe Willie Hoops.

• 1:31:49Sam Fragoso?

  Something like that, from Amarillo, Texas.

• 1:31:52Speaker 00

  Why is everybody in the West?

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Well, the Oklahoma just popped out of Tracy right there. You know, that was, that was what that was. Uh, I don't, what do you think?

• 1:32:01Speaker 00

  Why would I choose? I don't want to have to pick between them. I, I love them both. I mean, you know, to, to be sincere for a minute, which is absolutely not the big picture way, but.

• 1:32:11Sam Fragoso?

  I guess it is the talk easy way.

• 1:32:13Speaker 00

  Sure. Getting to spend time with both of these people and everybody else who comes on the show is such an immense privilege. I mean, why am I friends with Tracy Letts? Like, that's crazy. In Venice last year, he was in the Catherine Bigelow movie, so I got to just go hang out with my friend, the Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright at an international film festival. Like, how charmed is my life? I don't want that door to close. I don't want his, like, very kindly dad-like notes of approval on every Hall of Fame episode to get cut off, which he does send us. It's really cute.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  I love Tracy. And, I mean, but I'll never say goodbye to Chris Ryan. So he's one of the great minds. Do you also know that, like, in some parts of Los Angeles, Chris Ryan is Elvis? Have you ever been out with him in public?

• 1:32:59Sam Fragoso?

  I, I haven't, haven't.

• 1:33:00Speaker 00

  It's really, everyone should have that experience.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  Los feels echo.

• 1:33:04Sam Fragoso?

  I think both of them are not going to be satisfied by your answers.

• 1:33:07Speaker 00

  Well, I said nice things about both of them and how much I like them. And I've said nothing nice about Sean on this, so.

• 1:33:13Sam Fragoso?

  No, you said that one thing about, I can't remember.

• 1:33:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, I'm gonna ask some, not rapid fire, but some big picture, big picture questions.

• 1:33:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:33:22Sam Fragoso?

  This is after 10 years of making this show, or eight years?

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  It'll be 10 years in January.

• 1:33:27Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Of all the filmmakers working, who is going to come on first? Christopher Nolan, David Fincher, or Martin Scorsese?

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the big three, right? That's, that's the big three that have never been on the show. I mean, there are other filmmakers I'd like to talk to, like Ridley Scott, that isn't, that have never come on the show. I'd love to talk to all three of them. I don't think Chris will ever come on. Would be my guess.

• 1:33:49Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you said something bad about.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  I said inception is a six out of 10.

• 1:33:52Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I heard that.

• 1:33:53Speaker 00

  I think Fincher is just too cool for you and doesn't care.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  He doesn't like doing, I know, I mean, I know many people around the Fincher universe.

• 1:33:59Speaker 00

  Let me say, I respect that about David Fincher immensely.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  He would pop on very many pods.

• 1:34:03Sam Fragoso?

  He did one pod and it was deleted, and that was on Marc Maron's.

• 1:34:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:34:06Sam Fragoso?

  So.

• 1:34:06Speaker 00

  Do you remember the F Y C, not F Y C, but some sort of awards thing he did during COVID over Zoom with, with Affleck? From their various basements? And he's so.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  I love that conversation. Well, that's, I think Affleck should really be a movie interview podcaster. I mean, he's really skilled at that. I, if Christopher Nolan would like to come on the show, he's more than welcome.

• 1:34:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  I don't, I, I don't see that as happening. I guess, it's weird to be like, Scorsese is the most likely. You know, he does have a film coming out next year.

• 1:34:36Speaker 00

  I'm trying to think of who I want Sean to interview. He's already done Greta several times, and she's wonderful. Um, who else?

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  Well, the Spielberg thing was obviously very exciting for me. And, and it's a little, it'll be hard to top that. I, I like the young people. Like, I liked talking to Curry Barker this year and talking to Kane Parsons this year. And, you know, I like people like Matt Johnson coming on the show multiple times. So I don't, it's not always about just like booking the biggest name, because honestly, people are coming to the show, for the most part, to hear Amanda and I talk about movies, right? So it's, it is gotta be about curiosity in a lot of ways and who I'm interested in talking to.

• 1:35:16Sam Fragoso?

  Rewatchables wise, for the two of you, if you could do any movie on there, you had, you over, had the editorial override.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Incredible timing, because you just did one of your all-time number ones.

• 1:35:25Speaker 00

  I finally got my, one of my dreams, Apollo 13.

• 1:35:28Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:35:29Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for knowing. Thank you for knowing what that means to me.

• 1:35:32Sam Fragoso?

  I do know what it means.

• 1:35:33Speaker 00

  So that was huge. So that got checked off the list. And on the Apollo 13, Rob Mahoney and I pitched that thing you do, exclamation point, which is having an anniversary this year as well.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  Good idea.

• 1:35:46Speaker 00

  I don't know, you know, he famously doesn't take selections or requests. I think the other one probably outstanding is the Thomas Crown Affair, 1998.

• 1:35:55Sam Fragoso?

  Could be good timing for next year.

• 1:35:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:57Sam Fragoso?

  With Michael B. Jordan's name.

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  I like that one.

• 1:35:58Sam Fragoso?

  You know, the, the show doesn't often have, I think there's only two movies pre-1970. One was Butch Cassidy, and the other one is Space Odyssey, the Space Odyssey that Spielberg chose. I want to know, how did you guys litigate that? Did he get in the Spotify Slack?

• 1:36:15Speaker 02

  I don't even know if I can say. There was a discussion about what would be some potential ideas for what would make sense. And when Bill and I talked about it, it's always about like, how, what is the guest most comfortable and excited to talk about? The same way you think about booking guests, where you want somebody who's like, and, and Spielberg has spoken many times about his relationship with Kubrick and his relationship to that movie. And that movie is like a lodestar for this entire generation of filmmakers that come afterwards. So it wasn't, I don't think Bill was like, put off or anything by the fact that it was from the late 60s. But I do think that he's thinking consciously about his own interests and also serving the audience of the show. But I don't really have a lot of say in that, honestly. It's not really.

• 1:36:54Sam Fragoso?

  But if it was just you and you got to decide.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  I think it would be very fun to do the master with Bill.

• 1:37:01Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  I think that would be very interesting.

• 1:37:04Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:37:05Speaker 00

  I would pay so much money for it.

• 1:37:06Sam Fragoso?

  So much. By the way, the horny stuff is gonna be an all-time here.

• 1:37:09Speaker 00

  Well, did you listen to the Forrest Gump episode, which is sort of the PG version of that?

• 1:37:14Speaker 02

  There are not a lot of Rewatchables episodes that are just me and Bill. Most of them are actually comedies. But there are a handful of more serious movies, and they always go to weird places.

• 1:37:23Sam Fragoso?

  I, I brought this up with Chris, but I have to do it again here. There have been times where you folks have ChatGPT'd Roger Ebert's response to the movie.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Bill has done that.

• 1:37:33Speaker 00

  Bill.

• 1:37:34Sam Fragoso?

  Well, you're on those episodes.

• 1:37:35Speaker 02

  But I wouldn't do it.

• 1:37:36Sam Fragoso?

  Now those episodes are now sponsored by ChatGPT. Do you have a moral?

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  Looked at me in shock. Yeah, they are.

• 1:37:42Speaker 00

  What? Oh, brother. Okay, well, I didn't know that. That's not my decision level. So, okay.

• 1:37:50Sam Fragoso?

  ChatGPT is a new sponsor.

• 1:37:51Speaker 00

  Where am I getting the money?

• 1:37:52Sam Fragoso?

  Of the Bill Simmons podcast. I don't think on the big picture, you've accepted that sponsorship. Okay. Do you, do you have a moral objection to Roger being brought back to life?

• 1:38:01Speaker 02

  I don't like it. I've told Bill I don't like it.

• 1:38:02Sam Fragoso?

  Is there any way we could have it stop?

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  Well, it's not my decision. It's something that he's done. I, I think Chris and I have both, when been, when presented with ChatGPT Ebert, we've said, eh, that's not cool. You know, because I, I wouldn't want that done for me after I died. And I don't want to, I wouldn't want to be represented in that way. And I, I revere Roger Ebert. So, you know. And, you know, I'm, I'm thinking very critically about AI and, and trying to not be an alarmist and trying to be.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  Thoughtful about what's coming while also having a clear moral view of what it means and how it's going to impact us. I tried to write about this a few, a couple of months ago, and I find it very difficult to, to write about because that's a tool that most people, I think, are using in that fashion. It feels kind of sad at times and it feels very unhuman, but it's not harming people, but also by occupying your time with it, you're kind of harming a human creativity that could otherwise be spent in another way. And then there is like a more meaningful ecological and creative dead ending that is a little bit more scary. And we can see that they're sort of related, but they're not talking

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  to each other. Like I, my wife's sister uses it to like organize tasks every day. And I'm not gonna like scold her about how she's using a tool that is making her life just a little bit easier because it's just hard being alive when you've got a family and a job. And I'm not, I'm not trying to do some big philosophical exegesis about this because of the Eber question, but I, I'm really thinking hard about it because I see it getting in my face.

• 1:39:40Sam Fragoso?

  I think many people are. I think that it's, it's on a lot of people's minds.

• 1:39:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:43Sam Fragoso?

  And how to use it or if to use it and all that.

• 1:39:46Speaker 02

  I mean, for bits.

• 1:39:46Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda, you're, you're like out on this whole thing.

• 1:39:48Speaker 00

  Well, I, I am.

• 1:39:50Sam Fragoso?

  I'm still shocked that you're surprised that your shows or Ringer shows are sponsored by ChatGPT.

• 1:39:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I didn't know that, I guess, because I didn't listen to the speed rewatchables. No, I was on vacation. Sorry. Um, which is.

• 1:40:01Sam Fragoso?

  Hobbies.

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  Funny, yeah, hobbies. And also just, that's hilarious on so many levels that that's how I'm learning about it. But I do genuinely and generally find everything to do with AI boring. And I'm not interested. And I've never used it because what am I using it for? I, I prefer human beings. That's also true of the types of stories that I like. I, you know, I don't like fantasy stories. I like human beings. So I really honestly am just not that interested. Obviously, it has huge social and financial and ecological implications. And I know where I stand on that. And it's not with people building data centers. It just, it's kind of boring. It's just like not really, I didn't have crypto

• 1:40:47Speaker 00

  either. Um, and.

• 1:40:49Sam Fragoso?

  One thing that I think comes up on the show over and over again is how I would, you describe yourself as being anti-corporation upwards of about 20 times on the show, dating back to the Dartmouth days. You wrote for the school magazine, The Mirror, quote, "As a classics major with a stubborn irrational aversion to corporations."

• 1:41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:41:10Sam Fragoso?

  I'm curious because we mentioned the Netflix of it all. You gave a big disclaimer when you guys signed on that you're gonna be obviously covering movies that Netflix makes.

• 1:41:19Speaker 00

  What was I writing about in The Mirror?

• 1:41:22Sam Fragoso?

  It was, it was called commencement convocation and something or other.

• 1:41:26Speaker 00

  Oh, that's because everybody I went to college with was a consultant or going to call consulting or finance. Yeah.

• 1:41:31Sam Fragoso?

  It's a very good piece and we'll link to it in the episode.

• 1:41:33Speaker 00

  Oh, great. Thanks so much. Look at me.

• 1:41:35Sam Fragoso?

  I, I, I wonder where you, where are you both at on, obviously you work for Spotify, but now you have this Netflix licensing deal.

• 1:41:43Speaker 00

  Do we have it?

• 1:41:45Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know the arrangements that are made. You guys are, I think shareholders. Didn't you guys get something when you joined and created the company?

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  We're not shareholders.

• 1:41:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:41:54Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. Well, Sean, when it happened on the deal, you changed your letterbox to the following movies: horror, capital dollars, and salesman.

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I did.

• 1:42:03Sam Fragoso?

  Would you like to be more blunt?

• 1:42:06Speaker 02

  Those are four really interesting films.

• 1:42:08Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:09Speaker 02

  That I thought were worth checking out.

• 1:42:11Sam Fragoso?

  So what's going on here?

• 1:42:14Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:42:15Sam Fragoso?

  How, how do you two feel about this?

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  The Ringer made a decision to license their shows not exclusively to Netflix. I think there's an inherent conflict with the work that we're doing, which is why I shared that disclaimer.

• 1:42:29Sam Fragoso?

  And is why you changed your letterbox for to?

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  I think it's fun to signal to the audience that we all know what everyone else is thinking sometimes.

• 1:42:37Speaker 00

  Sean's still got a little poster in him, you know?

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Speaker 00

  And, and I respect that about you.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  I am, I don't think it totally makes sense for a show that's covering films released by Netflix to be licensed non-exclusively to Netflix, but it wasn't my decision. So we're working within that reality.

• 1:42:56Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  But I don't really think about the platform when we're making the show. I try to think about the show the same way we were making it in 2018.

• 1:43:04Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda, how do you feel?

• 1:43:06Speaker 00

  I feel lucky to have a job in this industry. I, I mean, and in this, I mean, and we have incredible jobs. We, we really do.

• 1:43:12Sam Fragoso?

  Amazing jobs.

• 1:43:13Speaker 00

  Unbelievable, insane jobs where we talk about, I talk about movies with my, one of my best friends. And, and I'm employed and have health insurance for my children. And, and for myself also. And that feels great. It's a very tumultuous time in media and in Hollywood and in the world at large. And I feel very, very grateful. I have some notes. I think as we've learned, I had notes in, what, 2006? Was that when that was written?

• 1:43:47Sam Fragoso?

  That's right.

• 1:43:47Speaker 00

  That's when I graduated from college, 20 years. So I am a person who will always have notes. And I think part of the anti-corporation status that you're talking about is that corporations make decisions on behalf of other people. I don't like decisions being made on behalf of me by anyone else. Never have, never will. But I am grateful to do what we do.

• 1:44:10Sam Fragoso?

  So is that the grappling, the, the part of feeling really grateful and also since 2006?

• 1:44:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:17Sam Fragoso?

  Anti-corporation?

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  Yes, there you go.

• 1:44:19Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I would not describe myself as anti-corporate. I'm not sure if I'm a corporate cheerleader either, but I think I'm just more of a pragmatist when it comes to these things. And, and this particular.

• 1:44:29Speaker 00

  And she's better at it than I am as well.

• 1:44:30Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean?

• 1:44:32Speaker 00

  You're just, you're more diplomatic. You can sit in rooms and he's, you know, he's the ambassador to the world and I'm the one who just says what she says with no filter.

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think it's also good to just have like some recognition of the inadequacies of the current media climate. And because of that, the way that, you know, most things that are being made that people love are often being made in the throes of a kind of larger scale war for attention. And this is a really good example of that. There's obviously a larger scale war going on between multiple streamers to cat, to find a way to capture attention. And in that war, a lot of smaller things that fit in the phylum are being subject to changes that they wouldn't necessarily make. For example, this show is on video. I have to assume if you had your druthers, you would continue doing the

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  show.

• 1:45:26Sam Fragoso?

  I only hear druthers on podcasts.

• 1:45:28Speaker 02

  Well, it's a verbal medium. It's good.

• 1:45:30Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. Well, what do you think I would do?

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  I assume you'd rather just keep making the show you, you, the way you did, but you're in an attention economy.

• 1:45:36Sam Fragoso?

  I actually liked the video part.

• 1:45:38Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:45:38Sam Fragoso?

  It forced me to join a gym. That's been good.

• 1:45:41Speaker 00

  What kind of workouts?

• 1:45:43Sam Fragoso?

  Trying to do something with the core.

• 1:45:46Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:45:46Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, trying, trying. I'm, I'm not.

• 1:45:48Speaker 00

  Same, me too.

• 1:45:48Sam Fragoso?

  It's very hard. I'm learning. I mean, I play basketball every week, so that was what I had before.

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  Savor that while you can.

• 1:45:54Sam Fragoso?

  I, uh, not, not gonna, yeah. I, I, yeah, I like the video part of it.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  I mean, I've been on the other side of it. I've been on the other side of making decisions that other people haven't liked too. And I don't make those decisions anymore. So I, I don't know if I have empathy for the decision makers per se, but like when we talk about like movie studio executives, I'm usually the person who's like, honestly, their jobs are tough.

• 1:46:14Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda's smirking at this entire thing.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  And it is like, fuck those people. And it's, it makes for an interesting and fun dynamic in the show, but I, I think I, I understand that there are people who are at the very top, who are the absolute greatest at turning off all the noise and that that leads to very bad decision making. So not knowing anything about the feedback is dangerous, but also listening too much to the feedback is also dangerous. So what is the happy medium so that you're making something that you're proud of, that you feel can kind of stand up to your own personal ethics, but that isn't totally tone deaf?

• 1:46:48Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  In either direction.

• 1:46:50Sam Fragoso?

  I would say that's the, pretty much where all my time goes to, is the actual making of the show and the producing and the writing and the editing of it. So that's what I try to stick with. Amanda, you wanted to say something? Go ahead.

• 1:47:00Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I was just thinking about how there are many movie executives who at least listen to the big picture, who I admire, who are gonna be mad about that one. I don't have problems with the, the movie executives. It's, it is all of the large conglomerate executives who are using movie studios and, and many other, you know, industries at this point as, as monopoly money to bundle in order to, to make more money, which is the experience not just of the two of us, but like most people working in the world now.

• 1:47:28Sam Fragoso?

  Sean, you said that when you found out that executives listened to the show, it quote, "Made me want to die."

• 1:47:35Sam Fragoso?

  Why?

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  I used to feel that way. I don't feel that way anymore because I know what happens and I hear from them.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  I think we were just kind of making the show in secret for the first few years. And the show was also, the size of the audience was very modest at the beginning of the show. And I had an awareness of that because I was looking at the performance of every show on the network. And so because of that, I was like, well, this is a fun thing that we get to do together. And we both get to explore stuff that we really enjoy. And I'd always wanted to spend a lot more time covering movies. And so I didn't really think much more about, I wasn't like, well, this is going to be clearly the the job that I'm going to have in 2026 will be Amanda and I will sit across from Sam and we will talk about our process and all the deep philosophy that goes into making of this silly podcast. Like, I had no intention of that. And it did become clear.

• 1:48:21Sam Fragoso?

  I think we've been also sufficiently silly on this podcast.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Thank God for the draft.

• 1:48:24Speaker 00

  We haven't said the word craft, have we?

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:48:26Sam Fragoso?

  No.

• 1:48:27Speaker 02

  But in 2122, I was like, oh, okay, I see what's happening.

• 1:48:30Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, over and over. You guys have often said, in your experiences, it was a fractional part of your jobs. I want to know, as we kind of segue to the end of this, is there anything in this next chapter? You've done 900 episodes, getting to 1,000. You said in one episode recently that 1,800 is the target amount of episodes you want to do.

• 1:48:50Speaker 00

  You said you feel like we're halfway.

• 1:48:52Sam Fragoso?

  Halfway.

• 1:48:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Sam Fragoso?

  Does it feel like that?

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  You think you can get to 1,800?

• 1:48:58Speaker 00

  Well, while I was on vacation, the X-Men movie was dated. Is that right?

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:04Speaker 00

  And so it's after the Four Beatles movies, which we have previously identified as when the big picture will end because it's such a Sean and I are both huge Beatles people and this seems like, and it's starring some of our favorite actors. And it seems like a terrible idea and also the best thing that's ever happened. And we don't know how we will like emotionally and spiritually make it through Four Beatles movies. Are they still being released?

• 1:49:33Speaker 02

  As far as I know, on the same day.

• 1:49:35Speaker 00

  Or on the same day.

• 1:49:36Sam Fragoso?

  They can't be on the same day. They can't be on the same day. Why would you do that?

• 1:49:39Speaker 00

  We have until 2028 to find out, right? April 2028 has been when the podcast is going to end. Now, I suppose we have to kick it to May 2028.

• 1:49:48Speaker 02

  But what about whatever happens at the end of X-Men? Then I got to find out what happens next. You know, that's movie fandom.

• 1:49:52Sam Fragoso?

  What happens at the end of May of 2028?

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:49:56Sam Fragoso?

  You two are retired?

• 1:49:57Speaker 02

  We'll see.

• 1:49:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. So.

• 1:50:01Sam Fragoso?

  Do either of you actually believe any of this?

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  You know, I saw a documentary two days ago about Carl Sagan.

• 1:50:07Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 1:50:08Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, by the way, when I think of Carl Sagan.

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  Thank you. I mean, honestly, I would aspire to that life. But Nanette Burstein, really talented documentary, made this movie about him. And it's a pretty, you know, straightforward, slightly hagiographic, but with some warts portrayal. And I love what he did. And I'll just say, like, I think we're trying to do this in a very simple way. I never, I never thought of him as an inspiration point, but he was like, I'm going to try to make something that is fairly complex and often exclusionary, which is sort of like both Hollywood and the worlds of cinephilia, and try to make them more widely understood to a mainstream audience. Because those are the kinds of magazines that Amanda was describing that we liked.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  Where they were sort of mass market guides for how to enjoy, it's something that Ebert obviously did. And so I hope personally that like, I don't know if I'm going to make the cosmos for movies, though I would love to. But I hope we can just kind of continue to do that. That like, that's something that I think has value, that we enjoy doing, that seems to have some register with people. And maybe we won't do it exactly the way that we're doing it right now in 2029 or 2037. But I like doing that stuff.

• 1:51:23Sam Fragoso?

  How do you feel?

• 1:51:25Speaker 00

  I feel that I've started doing the math of how old will I be when the new Spider-Man movie comes out or something? And it's dismaying. And should it

• 1:51:38Speaker 00

  should a 51-year-old talking about whatever is, you know, alarming to think about, but it's a brave new world? I think that I try to be smart about the decisions that I make or we make. Or that, you know, my husband and I, who are in the same failing industry, make. But try not to think too far ahead because we get asked to talk to groups of journalism students and younger students a fair amount. And I always say to them, like, I don't really think podcasts existed when I was your age. I mean, and if they did, it was not mainstream. Yes, exactly. So you can't totally know what the form will be five or 10 or 15 years down the road.

• 1:52:24Speaker 00

  So I try to keep an open mind. That doesn't mean using ChatGPT, but maybe other things.

• 1:52:31Sam Fragoso?

  Five years ago, Sean, you were asked by a mailbag question, what makes the show work and why you love doing it with Amanda? And I have here what you said. I'm going to let you read that.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:52:44Sam Fragoso?

  And then we can maybe offer an updated version.

• 1:52:47Speaker 02

  One of the things I like about the show, and especially doing the show with you, is that it does reveal true aspects of my personality, my insane, unhealthy competitiveness, my overweening sense of organization, my sincerity. I like to rub up against your frictive nature and be a little bit more emotional.

• 1:53:04Speaker 00

  Oh, that's beautiful.

• 1:53:05Sam Fragoso?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  I think that's true.

• 1:53:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:53:08Speaker 02

  And I would not have described myself as a sincere person until we became podcast partners.

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  Oh, that's very nice.

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 1:53:15Speaker 00

  I would have said that the big change is once you became a dad, not to, but if I say it instead of you, then it's not girl dad nonsense. But that has been interesting, right? The show has comprised

• 1:53:28Speaker 00

  major world events. In terms of pandemic, it's comprised us both becoming parents. I've gone into extended maternal leaves as on this podcast, which just, thank you for covering for me for so long. So that part of the show is being, maybe not a document of our lives, but also the show is animated by the fact that we both love movies and also remember our lives, I think, and mark our lives by the movies. And we can remember where we were when we saw something or who we saw it with or what was going on and how it made it, had made us feel. And so that that has infused the podcast. Makes a lot of sense to me.

• 1:54:07Sam Fragoso?

  By the way, this is definitely the most sincere of the two of you.

• 1:54:09Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:54:10Sam Fragoso?

  There have probably ever been on microphones that I've heard. So this is very nice for people to hear this.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  Thank you for inviting us to do so.

• 1:54:16Sam Fragoso?

  My last question, you said in that similar mailbag recently that movies will be dead in 10 years. As we leave.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  2021 brain right there.

• 1:54:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:27Sam Fragoso?

  No, no, this was recent, this was 2026.

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  Did I say that? Movies will be dead in 10 years?

• 1:54:32Sam Fragoso?

  That's what you said.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  I found that hard to believe.

• 1:54:35Speaker 00

  I know. You've been on a real.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  Been real positive lately.

• 1:54:37Speaker 00

  He swore off the pardon the pun doomsdaying. And you've been more we're so back than it's so over.

• 1:54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:46Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, so we're so back, it's so over. Two parts. You didn't get to give the phrase or turn a phrase that you would like to be remembered for? And secondly, as we think about the future of the movies, how do you two feel about it?

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  What's your phrase? Do you have a phrase?

• 1:55:04Speaker 00

  For a long time, you really clowned me for introducing opinions with, it's not for me. And now I think that we've all learned from Emily Wilson that sometimes you just need to lead with, it's not for me. And that's okay. That's, we all see movies or experience the world in different ways. And that's, it's important to know your critical

• 1:55:25Speaker 00

  lens and to be able to articulate it. But, and you know, also many things that are released are not for me, until they are.

• 1:55:33Sam Fragoso?

  I think that's pretty good.

• 1:55:34Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:55:34Sam Fragoso?

  I like that.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Future movies, I think will be fine. I don't, I don't know what context I said that in. I think they're going to continue to exist. I think they may become increasingly eventized. And so it might seem like maybe there are fewer big ticket wide releases and that those movies will be four-quadranted out the wazoo in an effort to drive that eventization.

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  I hope that doesn't happen, but I think when you look at Spider-Man and the Odyssey this summer, you can see that executives can't see past maximizing. Maximizing is really the goal. And so if there's a reason that it's under threat, it's the maximizing. The converse of that is obviously obsession, which is that you never can predict what the art form will allow for. And that movies can be made more cheaply than ever by very young people. And so I hope that it's the dawning of a shift. I don't know. What do you think?

• 1:56:30Speaker 00

  I think we've both been pretty heartened and also puzzled by the growth in.

• 1:56:38Speaker 00

  Viewership by younger people and also the growth of listenership by much younger people to our podcast.

• 1:56:43Sam Fragoso?

  It seems like it's grown a lot in the last two or three years, right?

• 1:56:46Speaker 00

  And it's much younger people.

• 1:56:50Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 1:56:52Speaker 00

  And, you know, I'm so grateful, but also we are, as much discussed, two middle aged parents, just talking about how great it was when Billy Crystal rode the yellow airplane onto the stage in 97, I guess. So I, I do think that some of that is just because younger people have really gotten into movies and there have been a lot of trend pieces and documentation to this effect, whether it's that they're into like making sure they have the, the right 70 millimeter IMAX tickets for The Odyssey, or whether they're at rep screenings, or whether they're on Letterboxd, or younger people, and I mean even younger than you, are like, hey, movies, that's what's up. And that gives me hope, I think.

• 1:57:35Speaker 00

  I don't think it's ever going to be the, the center of pop culture and really the center of just of all culture, the way it was for us in the 90s. But this year has been encouraging, you know? TV really down bad, movies back, so that feels good.

• 1:57:51Sam Fragoso?

  Well, in thinking of the movie of the year, my opinion, it's The Drama. I still, it's the one that I keep coming back to. This is my final question.

• 1:57:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:57:58Sam Fragoso?

  Is there anything that would be a bridge too far that would make this union have to, have to break up?

• 1:58:06Speaker 00

  Well, isn't the, isn't the drama about how like it's

• 1:58:09Speaker 02

  No matter what, we persist.

• 1:58:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  It's about the feel of commitment, but then you just, you do it anyway. And honestly, I watched The Drama being like, yeah, okay, not great, but was it like, she didn't do it? So.

• 1:58:22Sam Fragoso?

  I agree.

• 1:58:23Speaker 00

  I think if he Alana Heim'd me, that would be sort of

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  I would never.

• 1:58:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, that would be a real issue, but that's the, the fake best friend made of honor speech, not the real thing.

• 1:58:32Sam Fragoso?

  You're going to persist for the long haul, or at least 1,800 episodes?

• 1:58:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, at least until May 2028.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I, I'm not really worried about that, honestly. It's not something that really crosses my mind.

• 1:58:45Sam Fragoso?

  Sean, you look dismayed that I'm asking this.

• 1:58:47Speaker 02

  Um, well, I think it's like, it's probably really healthy to acknowledge, as Amanda was like 10 minutes ago, how lucky we are to be doing this in this way. And that it was like, not actually some grand scheme. That The Ringer was in that style that she was describing was, that was strategic. Like in 2015, we had conversations about that. But for us specifically, I don't think that this was like some master plan that we had. It did kind of fall into place during the pandemic where it became clear that that was happening. And so especially now, because my life is much more dedicated professionally to doing the show than it was previously, I'm trying to have like a lot of gratitude for that.

• 1:59:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:28Speaker 02

  Because it's a fucking cool job. It's a really lucky job. And even while she was on vacation, I was like, she's got to get back, dude. We got to, we got to start doing the show again.

• 1:59:37Sam Fragoso?

  Amanda, I missed you. Well, I want to say approaching 1,000 episodes, 10 years of The Ringer. Congratulations to you both. That takes a lot. The fact that you two are still friends is really a testament to, to whatever odd, strange, beautiful bond you've created.

• 1:59:55Speaker 00

  That's, that is true, but thank you for saying it.

• 1:59:57Sam Fragoso?

  And

• 1:59:57Speaker 00

  Because we would never really say it to each other.

• 1:59:59Sam Fragoso?

  I'm aware, that's what I'm here for. Sean Fantasy, Amanda Dobbins, thank you both.

• 2:00:04Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  Thanks, Sam.

• 2:00:05Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for watching Talk Easy. If you enjoyed this episode with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins, be sure to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also leave us a review on Apple, drop us a comment on Spotify, or follow us on social media at Talk Easy Pod. Our producer is Caroline Reebok. This episode was edited by Corey Etad. It was mixed by Andrew Bastola. Photographs today come from Maria Alvarez. Social media by Sofeen Kevorkian. Special thanks to Victor Shee and of course to Sean and Amanda for coming on the show. I also want to thank our friend of the pod, Eric Lures. This episode, of course, was made in partnership with the good people at Higher Ground Media. And I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for watching and I'll see you next Sunday.

• 2:00:57Sam Fragoso?

  History gets written, then rewritten, sometimes by scholars correcting the record, sometimes by committees deciding what a generation of kids will and won't learn. The version that makes it into the textbook isn't always the only story. It's the one that won out. That's the kind of thing Ground News was built for. It shows you how outlets across the spectrum tell the same story, side by side, so you can spot the shading for yourself. Ground News gives each outlet a factuality rating, so you know how much weight to give the source and shows you who owns it, so you know what's behind it. The Nobel Peace Center called it "an excellent way to stay informed, avoid echo chambers,

• 2:01:41Speaker 06

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• 2:02:22Speaker 06

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