AI is Running Up America’s Energy Costs — Who’s Footing the Bill?

Scott and Ed dig into how America’s data center boom is driving up electricity bills — and what should be done about it. Then, they look at how Meta and OpenAI are responding to rising mental health concerns and consider who’s really responsible for fixing the problem. Finally, they look at two fast-rising challengers to SpaceX and the new investment opportunities emerging in the space race. Subscribe to the Prof G Markets newsletter Order "The Algebra of Wealth," out now Subscribe to No Mercy / No Malice Follow the podcast across socials @profgmarkets Follow Scott on Instagram Follow Ed on Instagram and X Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:21Scott Galloway?

  Today's number 10. That's the percentage of marriages worldwide that are between first or second cousins. Ed, genuine question here. Is finding out that your partner has sucked more than 100 dicks upsetting, or is my wife overreacting?

• 1:47Ed Elson?

  You know, I was annoyed that you're 20 minutes late, but you've suddenly just papered over that now.

• 1:52Scott Galloway?

  I've redeemed myself. I was upstairs.

• 1:55Ed Elson?

  Now I'm happy.

• 1:55Scott Galloway?

  I was upstairs with the dogs, and then finally Drew called, and I have no sense of the counter. I apologize for being late. I was either gonna go with that one, or I had a joke on paper, which I really like, and that is the... Did you ever see the movie The Exorcist?

• 2:08Ed Elson?

  No.

• 2:08Scott Galloway?

  Oh, my God. It's an incredible horror film. I made the mistake of sneaking in to see it when I was 13 with my friend Adam Markman. And like, when I got up in the morning, I would have to go into the corner and put my socks on in the corner. I was so frightened of a demon being possessing me. It's about a girl, Linda Blair, who gets possessed by the devil and about all these attempts to exorcise. And it's called The Exorcist because this priest, played by Max Von Sydow, and I forget the other guy played, coming in to try and, you know, release the demon from, release the devil from this poor little girl. Ellen Burstyn plays the mother way before your time. Anyways, there's a rumor that they're planning a sequel to The

• 2:51Scott Galloway?

  Exorcist, but this time it's about getting the priest out of the little boy.

• 3:06Scott Galloway?

  How are you, Ed? What's going on with Nvidia? What's going on with Nvidia? Look at Ed. Ed loves that joke. It's that Princeton pedo humor.

• 3:21Ed Elson?

  The fact that every joke has to be punctuated with a groan is another piece of this podcast I'll never quite wrap my head around.

• 3:31Scott Galloway?

  That's right. That's right. And guess who I'm having dinner with tonight? I'm totally name dropping. I probably shouldn't say that in the same sentence as a pedo joke. I'm having dinner with the chancellor of UCLA.

• 3:44Ed Elson?

  To discuss your vocational programming?

• 3:46Scott Galloway?

  Well, Ed, I'm glad you asked. Um, you know, I don't know. I think it's to discuss how I can give more money.

• 3:52Ed Elson?

  Probably that, yeah.

• 3:53Scott Galloway?

  The reward to giving money to a university is you get called and they want your insight into academia and they pretend to care for about 10 minutes. And then comes this opportunity. It was presented as an opportunity. And to match some other gift or do something. But yeah, I have something called, let's talk about the accelerator program. So I'm a big fan. Public school changed my life. This isn't philanthropy. This is an overdue payback. And I give money to public universities. And I always say, find me the program. No one else will give money to. So I don't want sexy shit. I don't want an engineering school or a school of international relating, you know, relations, or a gym, or none of that bullshit. So at UW Madison,

• 4:36Scott Galloway?

  I'm the second donor to a wonderful program where the professors go to local penitentiaries. And if you're near your release, or like, less than five years from your release, you can take courses to work towards a BA.

• 4:48Ed Elson?

  That's cool.

• 4:49Scott Galloway?

  And at UCLA, I'm doing adult education. Adult education, it's like vocational programming. No one wants to fund it. And I love it because it's very low cost, no admissions policy. And I'm doing, I love that. This is, we should call this, this section of the program Scott Verty signaling I did.

• 5:07Ed Elson?

  Prof G philanthropist.

• 5:08Scott Galloway?

  University of Georgia, I'm doing tenant rights. At Berkeley, I did scholarships for children of immigrants, as I am one of them.

• 5:16Ed Elson?

  The big question is, do you get your name on any of these things?

• 5:19Scott Galloway?

  No, they've asked. They wanted to name one of the programs. And I don't want to be, have my name on anything because.

• 5:25Ed Elson?

  Because you don't want anyone to know that you're doing.

• 5:26Scott Galloway?

  Well, yeah, I'm so shy. You know me, I'm very subtle. I don't like to do, I don't like to talk about this sort of thing. No, I'm, I'm being very honest now. They wanted to call this the whatever, the Galway program. And I'm like, no, because eventually they're going to decide that my jokes or something I did was totally inappropriate. And my kids are going to have to fight to keep my name on this thing as I'm 90 and reheating soup. And everyone decides I'm a, you know, name your favorite ist. If they can come up with reasons why they need to tear down Winston Churchill statue in London, they can figure out a million things why they're going to need to take my name off a program. So I'm like, no, I don't.

• 6:05Ed Elson?

  It's gonna be a giant compilation of every intro to prof G markets. That'll be a downfall.

• 6:09Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, that's it. They'll be like, oh, my God, I can't believe you said that, you know, national. Anyway, so no, I don't have my name on, I'm not going to put my name on any of this shit.

• 6:18Ed Elson?

  Fair enough. Well, I'm glad that we talked about it and people know. Anyway, that's the most important thing, right?

• 6:23Scott Galloway?

  There you go.

• 6:27Scott Galloway?

  Now is the time to fly. I hope you have plenty of the world at all.

• 6:34Ed Elson?

  Tech companies are racing to secure data centers to handle the surge in AI computing demand. We've discussed this trend at length on the show, but more data centers means more demand for energy. In fact, S and P Global projects grid demand from data centers will rise 22% in 2025, and it will nearly triple by 2030. But the part that is talked about less is who's footing the bill. Right now, it looks like consumers might be paying. Bloomberg found electricity costs near major data center hubs are up as much as 267% compared to five years ago. So Scott, everyone's very excited about data centers. Everyone's

• 7:16Ed Elson?

  very excited about chips. We've seen a ton of announcements about these new data centers. OpenAI building trillions of dollars worth of data center capacity. They want to build 250 gigawatts of data center capacity. But the part that's getting, again, less attention is the energy side. Two big questions for me. One, how are we actually going to power these things? And two, if we can power them, what is it going to do to the cost of energy? Because as that Bloomberg article points out, in areas where data centers have been built, energy costs have more than tripled in just five years. And meanwhile, the plan is to build more data centers. So a lot to get into here. I will start, or I will pause there and get your reactions.

• 7:59Scott Galloway?

  The greatest arbitrage in history is the arbitrage of fossil fuels and in general energy. The more energy you produce, I mean, there's just, energy is like broadband. No matter how much of you have of it, people will find a use for it. Now, that's not to say the prices don't fluctuate, but the spike in this incremental demand and the kind of price discovery happens at the frontier, right? So even though I think it's increased price, demand consumption by six or seven percent, that's enough to take. Prices up 25, 50 or 100%. So what do we do about that? Do we end up doing what we do with a lot of places? And that is invest overseas?

• 8:40Scott Galloway?

  Should we be building the data centers in the Gulf? And the reason why that probably will happen or that might happen is that for the last 20 years, the dynamic in terms of capital flows have been that a bunch of institutional money managers fly to Riyadh, Dubai, or Doha, or Abu Dhabi and say, I run a biotech fund in the US. Please give me 100 million, a billion dollars to invest it and I will return back more capital. The shift is that now the Gulf investors are, yeah, they're still looking for alpha. They're still looking for good managers, but even more than that, they're looking for

• 9:21Scott Galloway?

  capital or to fund projects that create an infrastructure around manufacturing, services, education, the electronic arts. Take private was part of that because they realize that while they have what feels like near infinite capital, the sea of oil beneath them at some point will run out. Now, I don't know if that's 20 or 30 years or 60 or 80, but they know they do have a fuse around trying to transition this economy. So when you go down there, they're open for business, but they want to invest in companies that will build some sort of local demand, local infrastructure, local business operation. So I can see a situation where these companies make massive investments in a company like

• 10:01Scott Galloway?

  OpenAI in exchange for building those data centers with those processors in somewhere in the Gulf. What are your thoughts?

• 10:09Ed Elson?

  I'm just really struck by how everyone is so excited about these data centers and we're just seeing this record investment into data centers. And meanwhile, people are not talking enough about energy and the fact that we need to power these things. And, you know, people were talking about it maybe a year ago. I saw op-eds and newspapers and people talking about it publicly on podcasts saying, oh, you know, this AI thing, it's going to be a lot of power demand. So we're going to need a lot more power. I know Bill Gates was talking a lot about that. But the reality is, right now. There is not nearly enough investment going into energy compared to the amount of investment that's going into data centers. And by the way, that is why all of these

• 10:53Ed Elson?

  construction plans for these data centers keeps on getting delayed. Because what happens is they announce these plans, these multi-billion dollar deals, they say, we're going to build this thing. And then they realize that the waiting list to actually connect the data center to the source of power, the thing that's going to keep the lights on, is like five, six, seven years long. And so essentially, what we have here is a very simple and classic problem. The demand for energy because of AI is way outstripping the supply. And so then your mind goes to econ one on one. What does that mean? It means that energy costs are only going to go way up. And I just want to sort of back up and highlight some of

• 11:38Ed Elson?

  the numbers that we were mentioning there. So as I mentioned, OpenAI, they want to, they want to build out 250 gigawatts worth of compute over the next few years, I think by 2033, 2032. So let's just talk about how like realistic that is. Last year, the entire US added about 56 gigawatts worth of energy capacity, and that was the most ever. OpenAI wants to build out a chip network that would consume 250. So that is going to be equivalent to a quarter of the entire US electric grid capacity. It would also

• 12:20Ed Elson?

  mean that OpenAI alone would consume more than half of all of the energy capacity that we add over the next eight years. If you wanted to supply 250 gigawatts of power, you would need to build 250 nuclear power plants that would cost you 12 and a half trillion dollars. And I think what is striking is that we're all just assuming that this data center build out is a given. And yet, there's this very practical logistical problem, which is how the fuck are you going to power these things? And, you know, I think then the conversation goes to, okay, well, what do we do about it? You know, do we just say no to AI?

• 13:02Ed Elson?

  I don't think anyone, or I'm sure some people want to do that. In fact, actually, a lot of Americans want to say that. But I don't think the market's going to let you do that. So you could say just like, pull back on AI or build out the grid. And then it's a question of how do you actually build out the grid? And I think it's a very, I mean, I just, this energy question becomes more and more interesting because, you know, the administration, there's been a lot of emphasis on how we need to drill baby drill. We need to get our energy back. All this focus on gas fueled energy, fossil fuel energy. But I would also like to point out that even if you use gas fueled energy,

• 13:44Ed Elson?

  you're not gonna, you're not even gonna come close to the demand that these data centers are projecting. It's, it's, it's not even a question. Maybe you get it with nuclear. But again, as we've discussed, this takes decades and decades to build. So increasingly, I'm starting to believe that the route that you need to go is you need to go with solar energy. But of course, the administration is gutting all of the investments and the tax credits that, that fuel the solar industry. So I will pause again there.

• 14:14Ed Elson?

  But, I mean, I think the question is becoming, clearly, we need more energy in America if we're going to do this AI thing. And if we don't, the consequences are quite simple. AI is going to absolutely skyrocket your energy bill.

• 14:31Scott Galloway?

  This all feels to me like it's desperate for some sort of technical breakthrough that reduces the energy demands. Cause the whole notion of it's sort of this circular philosophical question, at what point do not do a, conduct an AI query for the best place to eat Indian food in London when the cost of that query is, inhibits you from being able to afford to go eat Indian food? Or that AI becomes something that is sequestered to wealthy people and corporations? And then we outsource the expense of AI to households that see their electric bills go up 20, 50. I've heard in some areas it's gone up 200%. Or at some point, does the government come in or weigh in and call it an infrastructure investment?

• 15:16Scott Galloway?

  Or do we come up with some sort of tiered pricing system where we charge? Instead of having a bulk discount, if you're a B to B, if you're a business that's buying this capacity, at some point in your, in your purchasing over a certain amount, which probably means you're an AI or an AI related business, you pay a surcharge, uh, which they then pass on to their consumers, which would hit their stock price. But at this point, you would argue, if you need investment or deep pockets, you'd probably go after the pools of shareholder capital of these organizations are greater than the discretionary income of middle-class households in these areas. And then it gets very political because every congressperson

• 15:58Scott Galloway?

  wants to, I mean, so it's no accident that Musk announced a huge infrastructure project in Speaker Johnson's district, right? And so being able to cut the ribbon on a big data center or Colossus, whatever it is, makes that politician look very good until the electric bills start coming for those consumers. So I wonder if there's going to be some sort of legislation that, um, I don't know, either the government weighs in and provides subsidies for people. But if you think about, okay, we talk constantly about feeding and growing the middle class. And one way to do that is through, you know, tax cuts, but a better way to do it, I would argue, because the reality is the middle class in America pay

• 16:40Scott Galloway?

  a lot of usage and consumption taxes, but distinct of the class warfare rhetoric, the middle class doesn't pay as a percentage of their income. They don't pay a ton of federal income tax. So I think about 70 or 80% of federal income tax is paid by the top 10% income-earning households. But how do you, the best investment, I would argue, or a great way to support the middle class is through infrastructure investments, whether it's rail or power grid or clean water, uh, highways that help you get to and from your... House faster so you can spend more time with your kids or tax credits for housing such that people can have more affordable housing. But it feels as if there needs to be a rethink

• 17:22Scott Galloway?

  around national energy policy. The problem is, is that there's such regulatory capture that it strikes me that if I had to predict what's going to happen here is that there will be a huge investment in the grid, the majority of which will be absorbed by AI. So effectively, all that is, is a transfer from all homes and all taxpayers to the shareholders of AI.

• 17:46Ed Elson?

  Yes, I think this is such an important, the amount that energy costs are going up is so important because it's highlighting how this stuff is actually expensive, like it actually costs something and someone has to pay for it. And up to this point, it has seemed to most people that it's just these like, you know, Qatari billionaires or these Silicon Valley billionaires who are just funding these things. And there's this abundance mindset and it's like, oh, a trillion dollars here, a trillion dollars there, we're just going to keep investing. But this is sort of highlighting actually, we're not in a, in a place of abundance, really, or at least not in a place of abundance in the, in the way that Sam Altman seems to think. We actually have a scarcity

• 18:30Ed Elson?

  of energy to the point that the costs are going to be felt by regular Americans. And what has been so interesting recently is the local community pushback that has been growing against data center build outs. And this is very recent, but in the past few months, basically, $63 billion worth of data centers have been blocked because local communities have gotten together and they've said, no, you're not going to build this data center in our neighborhood. It's happened in Ohio, in Texas, in Indiana, Google just withdrew one of their data center applications because they got all of this pushback. And the argument from, from the people saying no is basically, this

• 19:14Ed Elson?

  actually doesn't help us. It doesn't help our communities because it sends energy prices through the roof. And then the other point, which I think is also really important that they've made is that it actually doesn't even create jobs, really. Because one thing about data centers, it's not like a Walmart, the data center is basically a giant robot. And you build the thing and there are construction jobs when you're building it. But then, once it's built, you basically just let it sit there. And it's only a few people who are servicing the thing. You look at the data center that Apple built in North Carolina as an example. They spent a billion dollars on this data center. It created less than a hundred permanent jobs. So that's equivalent to like a series B startup, like showing up in North Carolina.

• 19:58Ed Elson?

  So huge costs on energy and temporary job creation through the construction. But once it is built, actually, the local community doesn't really benefit from it. And as you say, it's a robot that's that's building shareholder value for the people who own AI stocks. And so I it's becoming a really interesting, and I think this is going to become more prominent in the political sphere. But it's this NIMBY versus YIMBY debate where people are saying, you know, not in my backyard. And you're YIMBY when it comes to housing. I'm YIMBY when it comes to housing.

• 20:39Ed Elson?

  But I gotta say, I I'm I'm starting to find this data center argument against the data center bill. That I'm starting to find it somewhat compelling, especially if it's going to triple people's energy bills.

• 20:51Scott Galloway?

  I mean, right now in Virginia, I guess about a quarter of the energy is already going to data centers. And these things sort of typify people's fears around where the world is going. And that is these economic centers powering stocks don't require anybody. You don't even you don't even need to turn on the lights during the day because there's nobody. There's nobody working there. So this is this is going to be. It is very difficult to spin up new energy sources, right? It takes 10 years to build a nuclear power plant. Cost overruns are just not easy. Yeah. So electricity companies or power generation companies have been some of the best performing stocks. Some of them have even outperformed AI stocks.

• 21:34Scott Galloway?

  Constellation, the largest nuclear power operator in the US, is up 78% this year, more than any of the magnums in seven. Brookfield Renewables, one of the largest public renewable energy companies, is up 47%, also outpacing the mag seven. American Electric Power up 30%. Entergy, another utility that focuses on the Southern US, is up 20% year to date. Because what you want as a business is you want moats. And then you want, but you want liquid. You want friction in supply. You want a lack of friction in demand. So what do we have? We have demand that is just like accelerating with very little friction. Right? But at the same time, there's a lot of friction around bringing on supply. So if you own the supply, it's champagne and cocaine.

• 22:18Scott Galloway?

  And the example I would use is that if someone who travels a shit ton and stays in nice places, you can't spin up a five star hotel. The top 1% are garnering so much money and there's a, you know, YOLO attitude, live for today. They're traveling more. There's a lot of pent up demand to travel. So the demand at five star resorts has vastly outstripped. Five star resorts are like nuclear power plants. To find a place, you can build a five star hotel, get their permits, the local residents, plan the thing, raise the capital and build a world-class hotel. It takes you 10 years. So in between that lag, as consumption or demand goes up,

• 22:58Scott Galloway?

  you have seen hotel prices at nice hotels basically double since pre-COVID. I think that's a kind of a relatively, you know, a reasonable analogy for what's about to happen to power consumption. And that is there is no kind of easy spin it up, large scale, multi-gigawatt power supply available. And it all feels to me again, like wherever we head, based on the regulatory capture, based on who the president is dining with, and Doug Burgum is going to figure out a way to come up with some sort of big, beautiful bill that taxes every American in the form of taxes and transfers wealth with subsidized energy to these AI companies

• 23:42Scott Galloway?

  the same way we're subsidizing all sorts of other things for, you know, different politically connected sectors.

• 23:50Ed Elson?

  I think that the energy build out is the most important thing. And just some, I mean, when we talk about like, what do we do about it? Just some data I would point you to. I mean, again, there's been this emphasis on we need gas to fuel this energy. The Most amount of gas-fired energy that has been deployed in a year, the most has been 12 and a half gigawatts. OpenAI wants 250 gigawatts. So you're not going to do it with gas. As you point out, maybe you get it with nuclear, but it takes decades to build that out. And as one of our research analysts on the team, Chris Nodong, you said, the

• 24:31Ed Elson?

  problem isn't that we need energy supply, it's that we need it energy supply now. That's exactly what AI companies are asking for. We need the energy to come online right now. So I think you got to do it with solar. Solar made up more than half of all of the new energy capacity that was added last year. But for whatever reason, probably for anti-woke reasons, they, the administration thinks that solar is hippy dippy or woke. Trump has this hatred of solar, and so there is this attack on the solar build-out. And because you mentioned the big beautiful bill, because of the big beautiful bill, we're seeing less investment in solar. We're seeing elimination of tax credits. And as a result, it's going

• 25:13Ed Elson?

  to reduce solar production capacity by about 20%. Those are the projections right now. So all this comes down to, if we want to do AI, we need more focus on the energy side of things, and we need more attention on how do we actually build out the energy. And it's not just a question of drill, baby, drill. It's a question of everything. It's a question of wind. It's a question of solar. It's a question of nuclear. And I just, it seems as if the conversation has moved away from that because people are so excited about the AI thing, that they've gotten way out over their skis on this. And there needs to be more of a rational conversation of like, okay, sounds good, but let's keep the lights on. How do we actually power these things?

• 25:58Scott Galloway?

  Problems like this, when they're this obvious and this big, oftentimes don't end up happening. And that is, the shit you're worried about is the shit that generally speaking, doesn't happen. And I can see a scenario along the lines of the following. Sam Altman, in order to justify this valuation, is making these just kind of enormous, outlandish projections, including, this is how much power I will need. Because I'm basically saying to the market, this is how much AI is going to permeate all corners of society. This is how big my company is going to be. I need 250 gigawatts, right? It's sort of like announcing to the world, we're going to hire 3 million employees

• 26:40Scott Galloway?

  based on our current growth, buy my stock. This is how confident I am. So one, there's still a scenario where AI is an interesting technology, but it's not powering everything in our lives. We're not glued to it every day. It's not, it's not operating every car that picks us up and doing all our finances and in charge of all of our workflow. That it has some uses, but it's more niche and it never really gets the traction that the current valuations justify. Two, that there's some sort of breakthrough where the energy consumption demands just dramatically diminish. I mean, to a certain extent, the Civic, the Honda Civic came in and it was, it was a better car, but the reason it was a better

• 27:24Scott Galloway?

  car was because it cost you 12 bucks a week to power the thing instead of 22 because it just had a more efficient engine and a smaller car wrapped around the engine that just had better mileage. So I think there's a lot of things here that could change the calculus. What's clear is we're going to need more energy. I also think that, like, I'm a drill baby drill person, but I also think we should have kept some of those subsidies for renewables. Economics ultimately went out. The number one producer of wind is Texas and renewables are still right now, probably the most cost efficient incremental capacity to bring on. Specifically, I believe wind and solar are the least expensive and quickest

• 28:06Scott Galloway?

  power generation to deploy even without government subsidies. I would also argue there's a really strong geopolitical reason to keep energy prices low. I believe that if oil get, I think the war in Ukraine. And how long it goes is a function of oil prices. And that is if the price goes below 50 bucks a barrel, I think it's in the low 60s right now. I think Putin has to come to the table because 50% of his economy is based on the price of that. And at some point, the cost of production is greater than that number. I think if it gets to like 40 or 45. So I think we have a geopolitical, a lot of reasons to massively invest in energy production across, you know, all the different dimensions.

• 28:48Scott Galloway?

  So is it, is it the old dirty stuff? You know, I, I would argue that stuff is not, not going away as quickly as it should, but it's also cost ineffective. Is it solar? Is it wind? Is it, you know, LNG? It's like, I think it's like door number four, all of it. Right? And we're the largest energy producer in the world with the largest oil producer. I mean, people don't just don't realize how strong we are economically, oil independent, food independent, and we're the number one producer of oil in the world. And China is making, and you pointed this out last week, to their credit, they're going to add, I believe, more solar power generation in this year. At least that's the stat you had a couple of days ago, which blew my mind, than we

• 29:32Scott Galloway?

  have in total currently in the United States.

• 29:36Ed Elson?

  But solar is woke. I mean, China understands the issues.

• 29:40Scott Galloway?

  I don't know how these things got so politicized. I'm building, by the way, on a ground level, I'm building a home. And one of the things we're trying to figure out is how to buy the solar panels now to qualify for the tax credits. And all of these solar panels, from my understanding, come in from China. Like China's made just a huge bet on renewables. But my, my gut tells me that it's so obvious that there's just going to be such a demand for energy consumption. And then Sam Altman is out there saying, I'm going to need the energy of the EU to power my unbelievable business. I don't know. It's all making me very skeptical that we're going to need as much energy as Sam Altman is saying, or as much incremental energy.

• 30:21Ed Elson?

  Whatever the solution is, whether it's less AI or more efficient AI or more energy or more efficient energy or cost effective energy, the point is something has to give because you look at the numbers, as you often say, the math ain't mathin'.

• 30:38Scott Galloway?

  And just to wrap it up, at some point, middle class households are going to, are going to say, look.

• 30:46Scott Galloway?

  I'm not willing to not eat and not be able to buy groceries because my electricity bill is so high such that Scott and Ed can edit the notes for their newsletter using Anthropic.

• 30:56Ed Elson?

  Or as we're about to discuss, so that my son can like jerk off to AI porn on ChatGPT.

• 31:02Scott Galloway?

  That's a good segue. Well done. Very elegant.

• 31:06Scott Galloway?

  There is a reason you're not on CNBC.

• 31:08Ed Elson?

  So, okay.

• 31:09Scott Galloway?

  Back to you, Joe.

• 31:14Ed Elson?

  We'll be right back after the break. And if you're enjoying the show so far, be sure to give Prof Two Markets a follow wherever you get your podcasts.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 31:56Speaker 01

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• 32:22Speaker 07

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• 32:58Ed Elson?

  We're back with Prof G Markets. The conversation around technology and mental health has taken center stage in recent months, and some tech giants say they are stepping up. Meta added new parental controls on Instagram last week using the PG 13 rating system to limit what teens see. And back in September, Sam Altman announced a 120 day plan to roll out parental controls for ChatGPT users. That move came after the parents of a teen who died by suicide sued OpenAI, accusing it of responsibility for their child's death. Last week, however, Altman said that the problems with the chatbot were, quote, "fully mitigated" and then rolled many of those changes back.

• 33:38Ed Elson?

  So, Scott, I think the question here is, you know, these companies are recognizing the problem, and the question is, are they really doing anything about it? I will just first say, let's talk about Meta and this PG 13 policy. You know, it sounds like progress until you kind of remember that they've had like many child safety announcements that have happened over the past few years. And the research has shown that basically none of these features really work. They're really weak at protecting against self-harm content, bullying content, sexual content, et cetera. So, you know, whatever efforts they have been making, they're not really good enough.

• 34:22Ed Elson?

  And it's starting to appear to me as if they're more interested in announcing these safety features than they are in actually implementing them. We'll see with this PG 13 rating that track record isn't great. And then with with Sam Altman, he announced that ChatGPT was, quote, "originally pretty restrictive to be careful with mental health issues," but he says they are now going to, quote, "relax the restrictions in most cases." So some varying responses to the mental health thing, but what is clear is that these companies have to say something about it, and they are saying things. I think the question is, are they going to really do anything about it?

• 35:00Scott Galloway?

  If I didn't know better, I would think there's a possibility here that these firms are more concerned with shareholder value than the well-being of our children. It's just I I'm starting to get that sense of that feeling. So just as an example, we downloaded an app called Q Studio, I think, or Q Studio. And essentially, it's an app and I can control my 15 year old's phone and I can control what app he's allowed, what apps he's allowed to use. It alerts me to sensitive content he might be searching for. And I had sort of a philosophical argument with myself around should I really be the East German Stasi following my son? But I am comfortable being able to turn off his phone and say, okay, it's study time or you need to wind

• 35:42Scott Galloway?

  down or beyond a certain time of night, all your apps are shut off. And this is a nice little app. I imagine it's, I don't know if it's three engineers, 10 engineers, 20 engineers, but you know, every company could do a much better job of this app and they choose not to. So the fact that Meta, Alphabet and Apple don't have this app readily available or this feature means they don't want to make it easy for you. So they do these parental controls, which are mostly handwaving. I've tried to use the parental controls on Meta and I just, granted, I'm in tech, but I'm not good at this stuff, but I just give up. I find it confusing. And they will create the illusion of complexity here. It's very

• 36:23Scott Galloway?

  straightforward. There should be no social media for kids under the age of 16. We just need to age gate it. There should be no smartphones in schools and I'm increasingly believing you cannot have synthetic relationships available to anyone under the age 18 because the collision, I don't know if you saw this, but Sam Altman has, you know, announced that we don't want to be in the business of being in moral judgment. I think some such bullshit. We're going to allow erotica. I love that name. It's porn. All right. It's not, this isn't, this isn't, you know, nibbling on someone's ears and poetry and this is all right. You know, I like Bukkake and Asian casting porn. I mean, it's porn. All right.

• 37:07Scott Galloway?

  By the way, those aren't my preferences. That's just so you know.

• 37:12Scott Galloway?

  My shit gets much darker than that. Anyways, 25% of search queries on Google are related to porn. This is an enormous business. And one of the reasons this is a difficult sector to have peer reviewed research on is there is no, very little academic research on it because no one wants to be known as the porn professor. So what do we know? We know that teens are spending about five hours a day on social media or about a third of their waking hours outside of school. According to the CDC, adolescent depression is up 60% since the introduction of mobile or social going on mobile. And then from internal meta research, this is research they did, one in three teenage girls who experienced body image issues reported that Instagram made them feel worse.

• 37:56Scott Galloway?

  And so you have, you have this collision of very unfortunate things. And that is, this is a really, having kids on social media and on these platforms is a really profitable business. Platforms earned $11 billion from kids under the age of 18 in 2022 on pace for $13 billion in 2025. Instagram's $4 billion from teens. YouTube gets about a billion, get this, a billion in revenues from viewership from kids that are under the age of 12. TikTok gets $2 billion from teens. And ad spending targeting minors rose 24% year on year in 2025, reaching $8 billion in 2025, up from 6.6 billion. So what do you have? We know that the more time we get kids on phones, the more depressed they are and the more money these guys make, right?

• 38:41Scott Galloway?

  So we have linked shareholder value to teen depression. That is not good. And then where it's going to get really fucking scary is you have a cohort of young men and teen boys who get mixed messages around what it means to approach a woman and are told, and I think some of this information is good, I think some of it is not good, that there's...

• 39:07Scott Galloway?

  You know, no young man in high school or anywhere else, or say, in college, wants to be that guy, that makes an unwelcome advance on a woman, no matter how respectful, and then gets a reputation as that guy, as the creep, right? Or is not confident, or not in shape, or whatever it is, or hasn't taken risks, has not developed resilience, is used to frictionless online dating, where you just swipe right and maybe get a date, usually not. And the result is, okay, if I'm 14, if I'm a 14-year-old male, and I am not comfortable around women, and I just haven't learned those skills yet, which describes most 14- and 15-year-old, that would be a rarely apt description for most adolescent males.

• 39:49Scott Galloway?

  And then I can go home, and I'm getting these synthetic, visually near-perfect images of a girl that learns everything about me, and says the right things, and will perform erotic, i.e. pornographic acts for me. And you're gonna have, essentially, why wouldn't? How can these kids, these kids can't compete, there's no way they can compete against these things. And then, the thing that I find so upsetting about this, is we've been talking a lot about synthetic or character AI relationships, is that, and I've been writing about this, sexual desire from young men is not a bug, it's a feature. And that is, I think of it as like fire.

• 40:32Scott Galloway?

  And that is, fire can be bad, you can start objectifying women, you can believe that, you can have unreasonable expectations around what a relationship is, you can think of women in a negative light from this shit. That's when fire burns a forest down. For the most part, sexual desire from young men is fire that if it's captured in an engine, can create, can fuel cylinders and move progress forward. How does it move progress forward? You're a young man, you would really like to have a girlfriend, at some point, to be physical with, romantic with, and have sex with. So, you start working out, you have a plan, you practice kindness, you show resilience, you show a willingness to endure rejection, you learn how to be funny, you learn how to open, you learn how to approach, you learn how to maintain a rap, you learn how to have

• 41:16Scott Galloway?

  a plan, and how to articulate your plan to people. And you basically learn all the features of what it is to be human and successful in that environment, and in other environments. And I wonder how many of these kids are going to take these risks and feel the need to take these risks when they have the most ridiculously lifelike, easy, frictionless sexual experiences available on their phone and their computer at home. And we connect it, that attention, we connect it to massive shareholder value. And just to, I mean, just sort of bring it home or personalize it, I barely graduated from UCLA, barely graduated 2.27 GPA.

• 41:58Scott Galloway?

  And one of the reasons I graduated was I loved going to class. Specifically, I loved going to campus. Why did I love going to campus? All my fraternity brothers were there. UCLA was a ton of fun. There were people playing football and frisbee in the quad, and it was something out of a fucking Cinemax film. There were so many hot women everywhere. And there was a non-zero, granted near zero, but a non-zero probability that I would be able to meet an attractive woman, say, hey, we're having a party back at the fraternity, come by, and lightning might strike. And, you know, at some point later, I might have the opportunity to be physical with this person. That was really motivating for me. My first girlfriend was in college for a serious relationship.

• 42:42Scott Galloway?

  If I'd had near lifelike, tested a million times a minute to tickle my sensors, my, you know, my mental triggers around what sexual predilections I had, I just don't think I would have gone on campus as much. And I don't think young men are going to go on campus as much. I don't think they're going to leave their house as much. I don't think they're going to want to go have drinks with friends. I don't think they're going to want to go to football practice. I don't think they're going to volunteer at nonprofits or go to church or... So I see this as, again, another attempt. We have connected to shareholder value, things that make us less mammalia, that make us less, quite frankly, attack our manhood, attack our risk aggressiveness, attack what

• 43:27Scott Galloway?

  it means to experience real victory. Because the thing I hate about these fucking synthetic relationships is they give people the sense that relationships are supposed to be easy. They're not. The most wonderful things, you'll see this, the most wonderful thing in your life will be...

• 43:45Scott Galloway?

  Forming a romantic partnership with someone, figuring out how to develop economic security such that you can have kids, and then raising those children. And the only thing I can guarantee you about all that shit is it's really fucking hard. And if you don't develop the skills to navigate a partnership, navigate romantic interests, navigate raising kids, navigate the corporate environment, because you become used to synthetic relationships that are just so fucking vanilla and easy and always tell you you're great and laugh at every joke you make. You're never going to develop those skills and you're going to wake up. I think we're going to just raise a generation of young people who wake up and are like, I have no ability to deal with other people. I don't know what real victory feels like and I'm anxious, obese and depressed.

• 44:27Ed Elson?

  I don't think many people would disagree with anything that you just said. And the trouble is there is so much money in this. There is so much money in children and advertising to children and entertaining children and keeping them glued to their devices. And there's also so much money in porn. Porn makes up 25% of global internet traffic. People spend $3,000 on porn every second. So this is an extremely profitable business, the business of porn. And it is therefore kind of a question. I mean, the markets are going to roll on and they are going to go full steam ahead

• 45:11Ed Elson?

  on porn and more specifically AI porn, because AI porn is a more cost effective way of delivering porn to people. So it's a choice for these CEOs and for these AI leaders. And it's a choice for Sam Alvin. And I want to point you to a quote that he said on a podcast. I believe this was a few months ago, maybe a year ago, where he addressed this choice.

• 45:39Speaker 08

  There's a lot of short term stuff we could do that would like, really like juice growth or revenue or whatever, and be very misaligned with that long term goal. And I'm proud of the company and how little we get distracted by that, but sometimes we do get tempted.

• 45:52Speaker 09

  Are there specific examples that come to mind? Any like decisions that you've made?

• 46:00Speaker 08

  Well, we haven't put a sexbot avatar in ChatGPT yet.

• 46:03Speaker 10

  That does seem like it would get time spent.

• 46:07Speaker 08

  Apparently it does.

• 46:08Scott Galloway?

  And now they do. Yeah, I mean, I hear that and I kind of have just one general feeling. Fuck you.

• 46:15Scott Galloway?

  You and your hushed tones and your faux concern. If we're waiting on the better angels of Sam Altman or Sachin Adella or Tim Cook or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk to show up, don't hold your breath. Stop being such fucking idiots. There have to be laws. We live in a capitalist society where your power, your selection set of mates, your influence, how much people laugh at your jokes, your ability to take care of your children is all correlated to wealth. So what we know with 100% certainty or 99.9% certainty is the CEOs of these companies will make decisions, it will rationalize decisions incrementally, regardless of how many teens start cutting themselves or how it separates them from their parents and

• 47:00Scott Galloway?

  key relationships. So to a certain extent, it's not Sam Altman's fault. It's ours. It's pretty simple.

• 47:08Scott Galloway?

  Age-gate social media, no phones in schools, no synthetic relationships under the age of 18, no pornographic material for kids under the age of 18, removal of Section 230 protections for algorithmically elevated content, and start fucking finding these companies a percentage of their revenues, not a parking ticket. And here's an idea, someone does a perp walk. But this notion that, that we keep hoping that these guys are going to get it and their better angels are going to show up, come on.

• 47:41Scott Galloway?

  Sam's doing what he's supposed to be doing. He is adding a crazy amount of shareholder value to justify the $500 billion valuation he just raised money at. He's got to figure out a way to create the GDP of Finland in the next two years. And if it means increasing attention by 10, 20, 30% among people under the age of 25 with lifelike porn, he's going to rationalize why they should do it. And he'll put in place some faux controls that kids can get around. Folks, this is up to us. And the notion of the illusion of complexity that gets weaponized here and these false or hollow arguments are just that, they're false misdirects. Do you realize how much trouble a bar gets in if they let in kids under the age of 21? They get in real trouble.

• 48:26Scott Galloway?

  You can lose your liquor license. So why would it be any different here? Because the, and the reason is more different is because we have become so co-opted by money that if a company can add tens, hundreds of billions of dollars in shareholder value, well, child safety kind of takes a backseat. We're gonna, we're gonna nod our head and Sam's gonna talk in hushed tones about, you know, we don't do these things because we're more concerned with the Commonwealth than shareholders. No, Sam is gonna continue to do whatever will increase shareholder value by a dollar every day. That is his first, his second, and his third priority. And quite frankly, that's his job. It's our job to elect people who say, okay, our kids should not be engaging these relationships.

• 49:11Scott Galloway?

  Our kids should not be consuming content that results in a 60% increase in self-harm. And we have to have elected leaders that aren't total whores and sort of not, and by the way, this is on both sides of the aisle, hands down, and have thoughtful questions about privacy and these issues and want to hear more about it because they just got money from, you know, from Meta or from Alphabet or for whatever PAC is the, is the false front for these things or the veneer and that we don't have a president who basically wants to hang out with these guys. So this is, you know, this is really, I have, I mean, I'm always freaked out and I catastrophize because I'm angry and depressed, but I think there is a legitimate reason to worry about

• 49:54Scott Galloway?

  the collision of adult content and synthetic relationships and struggling young men. I think that is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. I think you're gonna find, we talk about these, I think they're called needs, neither employed. Yeah, employed or enrolled or in training, yeah. Yeah, nothing, right? I think that could quadruple in the next five or eight years because it's like, well, if my parents will let me live in the basement and I can find enough chief calories to survive, why wouldn't I stay at home and have these interesting exotic erotic pornographic intellectually somewhat stimulating relationships with friends, mentors, and girlfriends on an algorithm in a screen? And by the time I emerge from my fucking cave, I'm gonna have no skills at all, none whatsoever.

• 50:39Scott Galloway?

  Right? It's almost like these, they call them sexpats. These guys have just given up on their local society and they moved to Thailand or some other place where they can basically have a relationship for a much lower cost, much lower effort, much more frictionless. Take that times a hundred, times a hundred, and it's going to be not involve any humans at all. But this is, and the thing that pisses me off so much about this is that we don't want to admit and acknowledge the solutions are a lot simpler than these guys would have you believe.

• 51:10Ed Elson?

  Just to go over some of the solutions that other countries have had. Norway, they just implemented a complete ban on social media for people under 13. The plan is to raise it to 15. And Australia just passed a law which is going to ban social media for children under 16, and that's going to be going into effect later this year. But I think the point being, like, as you always say, money wins, and money will always win. And we can't keep expecting and hoping that people and tech leaders and business leaders are going to regulate themselves. They might talk about it for a time, but as we see here, no, they're never going to regulate themselves. It's the government's job to do the regulation. It's the government's job to figure out what the rules of the road are. They're supposed to be the referee.

• 51:55Ed Elson?

  They figure out what the boundaries are. And so you need the government to set the rules here and say what is okay and what isn't okay, make it punishable by law, and then let capitalism do its thing. I mean, we talk about this a lot. We like the competition, but this expectation that these tech leaders are going to have sort of the moral bandwidth to regulate themselves and to do it in a thoughtful way, it's just, it's just never going to happen. As you say, it's not their job.

• 52:24Ed Elson?

  We'll be right back. For even more markets content, sign up for our newsletter at profitemarkets.com/subscribe.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Hey Spotify listeners. When you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admirals Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi. Sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at aa.com.

• 53:33Speaker 07

  Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

• 54:10Ed Elson?

  We're back with Prof G Markets. Back in July, we said SpaceX was the most important monopoly that no one is talking about. We argued that it owns the space economy and that that's what makes it such a powerful investment. But that monopoly might be under threat because there are two companies that are looking to shake up this space race. AST Space Mobile is building a space-based cellular broadband network, and Rocket Lab is working to offer reliable launches for hundreds of small satellites. And those stocks are up 230% and 500% respectively in the

• 54:47Ed Elson?

  Past year, that is really why we're paying attention to these companies. The stocks are absolutely ripping right now. And the idea could be that they are going to compete with SpaceX, perhaps one day dethrone SpaceX. They're certainly a way off from that at the moment. But Scott, your reactions to the absolute explosions in the stocks of these two fledgling space companies?

• 55:11Scott Galloway?

  I think it's really exciting because I think it'll, I think it'll get everyone's greed glands going and people will go into the space. And we said earlier in the year that the most powerful and possibly dangerous monopoly wasn't even, you know, YouTube or, or, or Instagram in terms of social media. You know, Amazon at 50% of e-commerce, Meta at 75% or two thirds of all social media, and Alphabet with 90 plus percent of search. The fact that Elon Musk or SpaceX is responsible, I think for about two thirds of all launches. I mean, the way to think of it is we're on, we're one of nine unremarkable rocks with

• 55:54Scott Galloway?

  a little bit of moisture and gas that, and one of them appears to sustain life as far as we know. It's one of 100,000 galaxies in a million different universes. I mean, the potential of space is pretty striking, right? And one company appears to be, or was developing a monopoly on, well, there's Earth and there's everything else. And it's like, well, okay, if you have a monopoly on everything else, there might be incredible upside there, but also do you really want, you want a lot of competition here? So I think it's super exciting. Right now, the 10,200 active satellites, 8,500 are Starlink. By the end of 2025, 6 million subscribers and 62% of global satellite broadband revenue is going to go to Starlink.

• 56:39Scott Galloway?

  And there are three pure play public space companies with market caps larger than 10 billion. Rocket Lab was up, almost tripled last year, up 178% and it's up sixfold, 500% over the past year. Echo Star, a similar satellite communications company, up 231% this year. AST Space Mobile, a company building a Starlink-like satellite broadband network is up 356% year to day, up over 2,500% in the last two years. Stock's up 26-fold in the last two years. They've only had six satellites in orbit, but they're aiming to get to 45 to 60. You know, I there's Blue Origin and Kuiper. What would be just super interesting, and Mia did this research, it's just as we were excited about GLP-1.

• 57:24Scott Galloway?

  You know, I always feel like we're late.

• 57:26Ed Elson?

  No.

• 57:26Scott Galloway?

  You don't feel like we're late. So the question is, how do we go further downstream? And find the suppliers. These guys are going to raise so much capital. They're not dumb. They realize that these stocks are. They have gone crazy. So they're going to issue a ton of stock and they're going to start buying. What I want to know is, you know, what are the O-rings or the type of metal, the type of plastics? You know, milled products, specialty components that go into these things? And are any of them publicly traded? Or could we buy any of them? Because the amount of CapEx? That's about to go into space is only going to be, you know, is it's not going to rival what's going into AI.

• 58:06Scott Galloway?

  But it strikes me that this is going to be, just as we've been tracking AI and talking about the extraordinary amounts of money. I wonder if we'll be talking about space and launch capability in the same, with the same type of valuations and growth? Over the next couple of years that we've been talking about AI in the last 24 months.

• 58:24Ed Elson?

  Just to go over some of the numbers, like AST Space Mobile, as you said, up 2,500% in the past two years. This is unbelievable. You look at what they've done. They've got six satellites in orbit. They're planning to launch another 45 satellites into orbit by the end of next year. So that, you know, they're getting there, you know, building out the satellite network. But remember, you got to, got to keep in mind, 8,500 satellites out there are Starlink. So, you know, they're beginning to compete, but not really. Then there's Rocket Lab, which is.

• 59:02Ed Elson?

  Morgan Stanley calls them the alternative to SpaceX. They're based, they're not really building a network, but they are launching stuff into space. And, you know, they are becoming sort of the second alternative to SpaceX. If you want to launch payloads into space, you might go with Rocket Lab. They have this Rocket Lab Neutron Rocket. That's their flagship rocket, which is sort of trying to compete with the Falcon Heavy. So that's another option. But something I have been thinking about.

• 59:34Ed Elson?

  You know, this stock performance is absolutely crazy. I mean, 2,500% in the past two years, Rocket Lab up 600%. Like, this is crazy town. And you look at like the valuations. I mean, you've got Space Mobile that is trading at 500 times expected sales for 2025. So these aren't fully rational valuations. And it does remind me of this dynamic that we've discussed about private versus public. And that is, there's only one space company that people are really excited about, and it's SpaceX. And you can't invest in it because it's a private company, unless you are an accredited investor, unless you know someone who can get you some shares.

• 1:00:18Ed Elson?

  But when you look at the stock performance of these companies, it does feel as though those are just the names that are associated with space. And people who are investing in the public markets just want to get some sort of exposure to space. So I do think that these are the kinds of stocks that you want to be really wary of. Like, this kind of explosion is not really tied to the fundamentals. To me, it's more of a momentum thing where there's so much demand for space. And we all agree, space is a big deal. It's going to be important. But the one company that you'd want to invest in, you can't invest in. So you go to these competitors, which, you know, are making some progress. But let's be real, they don't hold a candle to SpaceX.

• 1:01:00Scott Galloway?

  Mia pulled together some research. There's some of the component suppliers for satellites, Honeywell. They make antennas, high-speed radios, data transmitters, receivers that allow satellites to send and receive information. Their clients include Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, Martin, and SpaceX. It also holds a majority stake in quantum computing firm Quantenum. They recently raised about 600 million at a $10 billion valuation from investors, including Nvidia. And their backlog grew 10% year-on-year. It's down 10% year-to-date, trades at three-time sales, roughly in line with its five-year historical average. So there's a company that appears to be in the space, but hasn't had the same sort of updraft. Universal Microwave Technology, a Taiwanese firm that manufactures

• 1:01:42Scott Galloway?

  super-high-frequency electronics that handle the radio waves satellites use. And their components are used in satellites themselves and also in the ground receivers. It's up 39%. But to your point, space is obviously... A really risky business, fewer than one in four venture-backed companies even make it to orbit with a vehicle. I had dinner with a friend of mine who works at a large PE firm, and he said the cheapest way to invest in SpaceX right now is through EchoStar, that I think EchoStar either owns, has a stake in SpaceX, but he described it, he basically said that EchoStar is, it's

• 1:02:23Scott Galloway?

  not cheap, though it's tripled in the last year, is the cheapest way, is the cheapest way to own SpaceX.

• 1:02:30Ed Elson?

  That sort of describes the dynamic, right? It's like everyone wants to get to SpaceX, so they take these interesting diversions to get there.

• 1:02:36Scott Galloway?

  I love this, I just love seeing competition and the fact that these stocks, what happens is when these stocks go up 25-fold, you're just going to see a ton of venture activity in the space, ton of human capital go in, and people trying to figure out how to get shit into space and attract capital. This might be, if any of these guys becomes somewhat formidable, gets in striking as SpaceX, that's what probably would motivate SpaceX to go public, so they can run away with it on a capital basis. But I think it's super exciting, and I think, and we were talking about this in the editorial call, I think we should start following space kind of the same way we have been following AI.

• 1:03:17Ed Elson?

  Okay, let's take a look at the week ahead. We will see the Consumer Price Index for September, despite the government shutdown. We'll also see earnings from Netflix, we'll see earnings from Tesla, from P&G, Coca-Cola, and Intel. Any predictions, Scott?

• 1:03:33Scott Galloway?

  Really interested in this Netflix deal, and I know you talked about this, we talked about it last night, but basically Netflix is partnering with Spotify and has essentially said, okay, let's be honest, Disney Plus and Hulu, that's not our competition, our competition is YouTube. And they've done a deal with Spotify for some of their original content, I think it's The Ringer, Bill Simmons, and some crime drama stuff, and we're going to run it on Netflix. And I think that what you're going to see in the next 12 months, I think you're going to see a lot of podcasts, or what started as podcasts, running not only in streaming media. I think the real home for them, or the more opportune home, is on cable networks. Why?

• 1:04:18Scott Galloway?

  If you think about cable networks, they're actually still, if you, if you did know what amazing businesses they were 10 years ago, and you just looked at them today, they still look like good businesses. They're, they're declining, but they still spin off a lot of cash flow. The problem with these businesses is not only on the revenue side, it's that the expenses haven't moved. The expenses haven't come down. They dramatically need to decrease the costs of these shows. And podcasts do that. I mean, essentially, 25% of our listens are on a TV, streamed through YouTube, but I can guarantee you, we cost a lot less than your traditional whatever. If someone watches an hour of this on their TV right now off of YouTube, and then they

• 1:05:02Scott Galloway?

  flip over and watch an hour of Wednesday, or Breaking Bad on AMC, or, you know, name your hour-long program, you can bet this costs a lot less. It won't get nearly the viewership, but it'll get more people in the court demo, and it'll be on a, on a operating margin or profitability basis, much more profitable. So, anyway, long-winded way of saying a dozen to two dozen of the top 50, maybe top 100 podcasts are going to be running on, on cable channels and across streaming media.

• 1:05:37Ed Elson?

  This episode was produced by Clay Miller and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our associate producer is Alison Weiss. Mia Silvera is our research lead. Our research associates are Isabella Kinsel, Dan Shalane, and Kristin O'Donoghue. Drew Burrows is our technical director, and Catherine Dillon is our executive producer. Thank you for listening to Profiteer Markets from Profiteer Media. Tune in tomorrow for a fresh take on markets.

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