92: Pushing the Envelope. Overcome and Adapt. Ultra-Winning Mindset of Marine Corps Combat Engineer, Rob Jones

0:00:00 - Opening.. 0:11:32 - Who is Rob Jones? 0:18:36 - First Deployment. 0:47:21 - Rob Jones, hit with IED. 1:02:44 - Recovery and mind set. 1:20:04 - The importance of milestones. 1:22:08 - Rowing in the Olympics. 1:37:36 - Doing and impossible Triathlon. 1:39:58 - Adapt and overcome. Why Riding a bike across America is a good idea. 1:58:13 - PUSH IT. Overcome and Adapt. 31 Marathons in 31 days. www. RobJonesJourney.com http://www.robjonesjourney.com 2:13:02 - Support: JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Origin Brand Apparel http://www.originmaine.com, Onnit Workout Gear http://www.onnit.com/jocko. Also Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj 2:42:14 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 92 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.

• 0:13Jocko Willink?

  The concept of finding an IED is relatively simple.

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  It is essentially identifying what doesn't belong in the natural area in front of you. Before one proceeds however, one must ensure that all of the Marines with them are at a safe distance such that if the searcher unintentionally detonates an IED during his investigation, the Marines he is with will not be harmed.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  The first step is to take a good look at where you are and where you plan to go.

• 0:50Jocko Willink?

  Identify anything that looks out of the ordinary with respect to nature.

• 0:56Jocko Willink?

  The world naturally doesn't often have patterns or perfect shapes. Essentially, you are looking for areas where you suspect man has been in contact with nature.

• 1:08Jocko Willink?

  When one patrols in the same area frequently, one can establish a baseline observation for what to look for and what the area looks like normally. Thus, on subsequent visits, it is possible to identify elements that are out of place.

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  The next step is to investigate the route that you have chosen through this danger area. The three main tools used for this investigation are the eyeballs, a metal detector, and a cutting-edge digging device called the human hand.

• 1:48Jocko Willink?

  Proceeding slowly in a forward direction, one swings the metal detector in a fashion that covers every square inch of the chosen route.

• 1:58Jocko Willink?

  In order to do this, start with a metal detector to one side of the route and move it straight across to the other side, keeping the search head an inch or two above and parallel to the ground.

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  Once it is across, move the detector forward half the length of the search head and swing it in the opposite direction to the original side of the root. This is a process that continues for the entirety of your time moving through the danger area. At some point during your movement along this route, you will want to investigate certain spots that you think may contain an IED. You can be alerted to these spots in multiple ways: from your early assessment before proceeding through the area, newly acquired suspicions as you move through the area, and also from

• 2:57Jocko Willink?

  sounds that your metal detector makes. The process of swinging the metal detector back and forth and inching forward is time-consuming. The best of the best are the ones that can optimize safety and keep time spent to a minimum. It is always better, however, to err on the side of caution except in the most extreme of emergencies. The investigation of a suspicious area must proceed with extreme caution. You start by kneeling down, being sure to be well-balanced and stable.

• 3:39Jocko Willink?

  You must ensure that no gear is going to accidentally fall off or slip out and touch the ground. You reach out with your fingers, and with the gentleness of a butterfly landing on a daisy, move the dirt in front of the front edge of the metal hit. Proceed forward, a nanometer at a time in this fashion, uncovering more dirt over a wider space until you either find the metal that set off the detector, or you are satisfied that there is no danger from this particular metal hit.

• 4:20Jocko Willink?

  If metal is found, the area must be rechecked to ensure that the metal was found was not a decoy.

• 4:28Jocko Willink?

  One may think that the tension during this time is akin to being Tom Cruise dangling inches above a motion sensor floor. But the necessity of having a clear mind and the amount of practice that has gone into this exact process makes it seem second nature and ordinary.

• 4:49Jocko Willink?

  After you are satisfied that you have cleared this suspicious area, proceed forward.

• 4:57Jocko Willink?

  As you move forward, you are also proofing the lane.

• 5:02Jocko Willink?

  That thing, proofing the lane, or confirming that it's free from IEDs is usually done with a special mechanical device. But it is now being done with your feet.

• 5:16Jocko Willink?

  And don't forget as you go forward to lay down markers for everyone else who comes behind you to follow.

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  This is the way that I handled the situation I was now in.

• 5:32Jocko Willink?

  I inched forward with my metal detector. I didn't see anything special about the area.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  My metal detector was making noises, but nothing large enough that I thought it warranted an investigation.

• 5:49Jocko Willink?

  The Marines in our patrol watched and waited as I cleared and proofed the lane.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  Then it all went black.

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  Now, that description

• 6:15Jocko Willink?

  is about as good as I have read about the act of searching for IEDs.

• 6:23Jocko Willink?

  And I actually never searched for IEDs in that type of method. A- and of course in Ramadi, everyone was always searching for IEDs. You were always looking, you were inspecting. We were suspicious of every pile of rubble, every piece of junk on the road, every off-colored piece of dirt, or pavement, or concrete, or sand. But we were in the city. And there was pedestrian traffic.

• 6:59Jocko Willink?

  And most of the IEDs were targeting vehicles, not foot patrols. But whether in a vehicle or on foot, the IED, for the most part, has been the biggest threat and the biggest cause of casualties in our recent wars. And for the enemy, it's a low-risk, high-reward weapon.

• 7:39Jocko Willink?

  And for us, it's an evil weapon. It's a cowardly weapon, and it is an effective weapon. It's a weapon that plants itself in your mind. Always there. Waiting. Around that corner. Under that curb, on the other side of that sidewalk.

• 8:17Jocko Willink?

  It's waiting.

• 8:23Jocko Willink?

  Now, there are those whose job it is to actually interdict that weapon, the IED.

• 8:36Jocko Willink?

  It is their job to face that fear up close and personal, day in and day out.

• 8:46Jocko Willink?

  You've got EOD, Explosive Ordnance Disposal is one group that does it.

• 8:54Jocko Willink?

  Complete professionals. And the EOD technicians that I deployed with in the SEAL teams were just outstanding in everything that they did, which by the way, was not only find and disarm IEDs, they also did everything that we did. They cleared rooms and patrolled through the streets and maneuvered in fire flights, just as the SEALs did. They were awesome.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  And in addition to EOD, combat engineers in the Army and in the Marine Corps also do mine clearance.

• 9:29Jocko Willink?

  And of course, I talk about combat engineers a lot because of the incredible role that they played in the Battle of Ramadi and the combat engineers were outstanding in their standard job of building combat outposts and building and maintaining the infrastructure of the bases. And they were awesome in that performance under fire.

• 9:57Jocko Willink?

  But at some point, the combat engineer's job morphed into mine clearance. And it's because, I would suspect, you know, they work with demolitions. So combat engineers do breaches to doors and to walls. They build roads and bridges and they also clear obstacles from roads and bridges. And so eventually, at some point, this morphed into combat engineers doing IED clearance, both on roads and then out on foot patrols.

• 10:41Jocko Willink?

  Now, there's jobs in the world that I wouldn't want to do.

• 10:51Jocko Willink?

  And this is one of them. It takes a massive amount of patience.

• 10:56Jocko Willink?

  It takes an incredible amount of skill and it takes an incredible ability to overcome fear. If you're going to actually seek out and touch the thing, the very thing that is trying to kill you in order to stop it.

• 11:16Jocko Willink?

  That's a job that I didn't want then and I don't want now. And I am thankful that there was others that stepped up and did that job. And I'm honored to have on the podcast tonight, one of those brave men. A Marine Corps Combat Engineer who served in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And the guy, by the way, who wrote that opening description of what it was like to go out and hunt for IEDs.

• 11:56Jocko Willink?

  A guy by the name of Mr. Rob Jones. Rob, welcome to the show.

• 12:03Rob Jones?

  This is an, this is an honor for me to be. I just really appreciate, appreciate you giving me the opportunity to, to come on the show.

• 12:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh man, trust me, the, the honor is all, all ours. A thousand percent. You can't even argue with that point. We'll, we'll let it happen.

• 12:18Jocko Willink?

  Give us, just before we jump into your Marine Corps career, just give us a little pre-Marine Corps background on growing up and what that, where that was and what it was like.

• 12:29Rob Jones?

  Can I answer your question about how combat engineers came to find IEDs?

• 12:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, please do.

• 12:35Rob Jones?

  So when you go to combat engineer school, one of the things they teach you is minefield and placement and defeat. And to do that, you use mine detectors and metal detectors. So I think that's the main reason that it uh.

• 12:48Jocko Willink?

  I wonder at what point, you think that came from World War II?

• 12:52Rob Jones?

  I don't know. Uh, that's a good question.

• 12:55Jocko Willink?

  Cause yeah, when I said it morphed into, I was thinking like back, you know, it must've been sometime in World War II where they said, you know, okay, we're, we're gonna get over this river. Okay, so a combat engineer is gonna get over the river. Uh, we're gonna um, secure this compound. Okay, we're gonna secure the compound or we're gonna rebuild this compound. Okay, well, at some point, they said, you know what? What if there's mines there? Okay, well, we gotta get them cleared out.

• 13:17Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Jocko Willink?

  So at some point, they realized that you can't build if you can't clear, right?

• 13:21Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Jocko Willink?

  And you can't move if you can't clear.

• 13:23Rob Jones?

  Somebody's gotta do it.

• 13:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, somebody's gotta do it. And, and they weren't able to slough off that job onto somebody else, which is what I, what I would've been trying to do. Which is what I would've been absolutely been trying to do. Like, hey, can we get somebody else to do that job? Uh, yeah, so that's good. So, so how'd you end up in the Marine Corps?

• 13:44Rob Jones?

  Oh yeah, my background, I grew up in a, on a farm. Um, nothing really special about my upbringing besides that.

• 13:51Jocko Willink?

  What kind of farm?

• 13:52Rob Jones?

  It was a horse farm. Um, I hated horses because I always had to pick up their.

• 13:56Jocko Willink?

  So wait a second, what is, what do you do, what is the purpose of a horse farm?

• 14:00Rob Jones?

  The, the farm that I grew up on, the purpose of it was my parents would take people on horseback riding trips.

• 14:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 14:09Rob Jones?

  They would pay them money and they'd take them out for a couple hours in the forest.

• 14:10Jocko Willink?

  Got it, got it.

• 14:11Rob Jones?

  And so it was my duty to clean up after the horses, feed the horses, stack their hay bales in the summertime, get them their water. So I didn't really enjoy the horses as much as most people would. But uh, you know, I'm thankful that I, I had that experience because I think it did instill me a, a work ethic that doesn't, that a lot of people don't get.

• 14:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Rob Jones?

  So, and then.

• 14:34Jocko Willink?

  I think when you come from, cause you know, a lot of guys, when they come in the military, they, they've never worked hard before. But the guys I've met in the military that came from some kind of a farming background, they're like, hey, I'm so happy here. I'm not up at three o'clock in the morning, you know, milking cows or whatever, or cleaning up uh, horse shit in your case.

• 14:59Rob Jones?

  Oh man, the number of times I had to wheel this wheelbarrow full of manure up a fence board onto this big pile and a number of times I fell off that thing. Every time I would just curse those horses, I hated them so much. Now I like horses fine.

• 15:15Jocko Willink?

  So you've gotten over your horse PTSD from growing up?

• 15:21Jocko Willink?

  And so, so then what, you graduated from high school and then you went to college, right?

• 15:25Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I went to Virginia Tech. I was actually a computer science major.

• 15:31Jocko Willink?

  I'm already suspect.

• 15:33Rob Jones?

  I'm impressed.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  Echo's impressed, I'm suspect.

• 15:36Rob Jones?

  And so at some point during that, during my college career, my sophomore year, I decided that computer science was not for me.

• 15:46Jocko Willink?

  How do you feel now, Echo? Huh? That's right.

• 15:49Rob Jones?

  Betrayed, really? And I decided, I don't know, I felt like I had spent the first 20 years of my life kind of looking after myself and now I needed to do something that was beyond my own self-interest. And a buddy of mine had just joined the Marine Corps, so I read a couple of books about the Marine Corps. Brotherhood of Heroes, about the Battle of Peleliu. And I said, yep, that's what I want to do. I want to join the Marine Corps. So before telling my parents, before telling anybody, looked up where the recruiter was, went down there. He wasn't there. Marine Corps recruiter wasn't there. Air Force recruiter tells me to come in his office

• 16:33Rob Jones?

  and tells me about the Air Force. And I said, yeah, just tell me when the Marine Corps recruits back. Nothing against the Air Force, but I had already decided on Marine Corps. And so I joined up.

• 16:44Jocko Willink?

  I think it's, I, this may be right or wrong, I'm pretty sure it's right. The Marine Corps has like the lowest recruiting budget and they have the highest recruiting numbers because it's the Marine Corps.

• 16:57Rob Jones?

  It's just their, their approach, I guess. Like, oh, you want to be one of us? Maybe. See if you can.

• 17:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Good luck.

• 17:05Rob Jones?

  Yeah. So I joined up as a reservist. My original plan, because I was after my junior year, so I wanted to finish college at least. So my original plan was I did the 92 day reservist program where I went to boot camp after my junior year, then I finished my last year of college. And then I went to job school in MCT.

• 17:27Jocko Willink?

  How did your academic performance change or did it between pre boot camp and post boot camp?

• 17:35Rob Jones?

  It didn't a whole lot because I think I kind of checked out of college after my junior year. I was like, I just want to go deploy, but I just kind of want to get this degree done. Just so I have it.

• 17:48Rob Jones?

  Now, after I deployed a few, a couple of times and had a little bit more life experience, it'd probably be a lot different, but just those three months of boot camp didn't really change my.

• 17:57Jocko Willink?

  Your academic.

• 17:58Rob Jones?

  My academic approach. I was plenty smart. I was smart enough. I just didn't care that much about it anymore.

• 18:07Rob Jones?

  So my, my original plan was to do that and then have the, a little bit of experience as an enlisted guy. And then use my degree to become an officer. But when I was in engineer school after that, that second summer, my company, my reserve company said, we're sending a volunteer platoon to Iraq. So I said, well, that's the whole reason I joined up was to go fight the war. So screw being an officer, I'm going to deploy. And so then we go to my first deployment.

• 18:38Jocko Willink?

  So I thought it was pretty, you, you got a good note in here about, about the Marine Corps. And I'm just going to, I'm just going to read this. I'm taking this stuff from your, your journal that you have online, which is, is awesome read. So here we go. Back to the journal.

• 18:56Jocko Willink?

  The Marine Corps began to shape me long before I ever, ever arrived at boot camp in Paris Island, South Carolina. It started when I read the book Brotherhood of Heroes, The Tale of the Battle of Talu in World War II.

• 19:11Jocko Willink?

  It was through the stories of the Marines told in those pages that I was introduced to the courage, spirit, tenacity, altruism, and brotherhood that the Marines possess. Qualities that I would soon be ingrained with as well. The basics of these qualities were taught to me and my fellow recruits in boot camp through rudimentary but effective means: the proverbial stick. It was through punishment that we were shown what it meant to possess the attributes of a Marine. Punishment would come in a variety of modes based on the same concept: countless push-ups, sit-ups, sprinting, carrying, and of course, screaming.

• 19:56Jocko Willink?

  The drill instructors would use any excuse, not that they needed one, to inflict pain upon us: not being loud enough, looking in the wrong place, imperfection in uniform, dirty squad bay, and not moving fast enough for their inspections, to name a few. The reality of the situation was that we were never loud enough, always looking in the wrong place, never had perfect uniforms, the squad bay was always too dirty, and we were simply too slow. The idea wasn't simply to pointlessly inflict pain, but to teach lessons using the pain as the instructor. It was to force us to make ourselves better, so the whole platoon, as a whole, would be better.

• 20:38Jocko Willink?

  The idea was to form a brotherhood through shared suffering and shared dependence. It was to teach us to keep fighting the pain, so that the platoon as a whole could stop being punished. The point was that, once we reached perfection, the requirements changed, so that we were forced to constantly reach for it, thus forcing us to become better than we ever knew we could be. This is how the Marine Corps takes hunks of iron and turns them into jewel steel.

• 21:13Jocko Willink?

  That's why the Marine Corps doesn't need a lot of recruiting money. But, so true, and I liked that, I liked what you pointed out, the shared dependence, and how, when you're going through boot camp scenarios, and, and training scenarios that are really hard, you realize you're not gonna be able to do this alone. And you're gonna have to rely on these other guys, who you may not, in the civilian world, you wouldn't have even been associated with. And now, you're not only associated with them, you depend on them for, for your survival, and to get through it. And that's, I think that's what makes, uh,

• 21:53Jocko Willink?

  that's what makes that military experience, and certainly the Marine Corps does an outstanding job of it, of, of formulating that bond that is, is unique to the military.

• 22:04Rob Jones?

  Yeah, that's what, that's the thing that makes Marines what they are, and brings out the best in people, is when they're doing something not for their own self-interest, but for somebody else. And, I would volunteer for the worst stuff, so that I could prevent my buddies from having to do it, like, walking through the Euphrates River, looking for whatever, trying to find weapons caches in Iraq, and then getting back at the end of the day, just totally soaked and covered in trash water. You know, and they'd come in and say, "We're doing it again, who wants to go?" And I'd be like, "Yeah, I'll go again." You know? And that's, I think that's why I really,

• 22:49Rob Jones?

  I, uh, kind of enjoyed the combat engineer role too, because I'm going out there, protecting people, protecting my buddies, protecting other Marines, and taking the risk on me. And, I mean, that's what being a Marine is all about. Anybody else would've done it too.

• 23:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And, so you go your first deployment to Iraq, and, um, what was that deployment like? Where'd you go?

• 23:16Rob Jones?

  Uh, Habenia.

• 23:17Jocko Willink?

  Over in Habenia. And what, so this is 2008?

• 23:20Rob Jones?

  So 2008.

• 23:21Jocko Willink?

  So things are pretty mellow at 2008.

• 23:22Rob Jones?

  Yeah, uh, Iraq had kind of slowed down at that point, wasn't much going on.

• 23:29Rob Jones?

  We had one...

• 23:32Rob Jones?

  Tiny little Incident where we were on a convoy and some guy in his roof fired maybe three AK rounds and then ran away. And it was so, you know, nothing. And that, but that was in like the first couple of weeks.

• 23:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Rob Jones?

  I didn't miss it, I didn't miss it.

• 23:47Jocko Willink?

  Hey, what was your response to the three rounds from an AK-47?

• 23:50Rob Jones?

  I s- I continued sitting in the back of the seven ton.

• 23:52Jocko Willink?

  Did, uh, did, did like, an eighteen year old Lance Corporal unload with seven hundred rounds of fifty cal or?

• 24:00Rob Jones?

  No, it was a long convoy, so it was way up there. And I was like, oh, I gotta get out, like, I gotta get up there. But it was, it was over before it even started.

• 24:09Jocko Willink?

  Did they shoot back? Did they return fire at him?

• 24:11Rob Jones?

  No, I don't think so. I mean, he like, he did one of those things where he raised his overhand and then left. By the time anybody was able to figure out where he was, he was gone. So that was, but that was in the first couple of weeks, so it was, you know, kind of off to a good start. And then, uh, No, nothing else happened really.

• 24:29Jocko Willink?

  So what were you guys doing during that deployment?

• 24:32Rob Jones?

  I guess it was kind of the, uh, The build portion of, uh, of the strategy at that point, you know, we were, We were helping the local population build up their cities, build, we were helping to build, uh, Iraqi police stations. And, but what I spent most of my time doing was when we, we would go out and find buried weapons caches. So just these old stores of RPGs and stuff that the Al Qaeda used to be using.

• 25:05Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 25:05Rob Jones?

  But They had just left there and then so the local population would, or somebody would give us a tip.

• 25:12Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 25:12Rob Jones?

  And we would go out to this big field. And they'd say, yeah, supposedly somewhere in here, there's a, a weapons cache. So we'd take out our metal detectors and sweep every square inch of that field or hill or wherever we were, tree, tree line. And until we either discern, determine there was nothing, Or we would find it and we'd dig it up and stack it and then the O D would come and blow it up.

• 25:37Jocko Willink?

  And were you attached to a, uh, like a combat engineer platoon for, or were you attached to an infantry platoon?

• 25:43Rob Jones?

  Yeah, so the way it works for the, what we call division side engineers, like combat engineer battalion, Is one combat engineer platoon is attached to an infantry battalion.

• 25:55Rob Jones?

  And then you kind of break it down. So one squad of that platoon goes with each company.

• 26:00Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 26:00Rob Jones?

  And then one team goes with the platoon. So you kind of help that platoon out. Uh, you're just pretty much attached to them the entire time.

• 26:08Jocko Willink?

  So when you guys would be doing these clearances of like, of let's say a big field, it would be a platoon, a Marine Corps platoon, and you would be doing all, all the sweeping?

• 26:18Rob Jones?

  Yeah. So it'd be a Marine Corps platoon or a squad. It would used to be a squad.

• 26:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So it's been a little bit smaller.

• 26:24Rob Jones?

  So a squad would, uh, we'd go out on a squad patrol, patrol out there. They would set up security on the area. And they would just wait. And then you'd be me and one other guy and we would sweep. And sometimes we would have one of the infantry guys have a E-tool.

• 26:39Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:39Rob Jones?

  And we'd like dig there and he would dig and nothing would happen.

• 26:43Jocko Willink?

  And then when you, when you'd find caches, would you guys blow them in place or would you recover it?

• 26:47Rob Jones?

  I guess it would depend. We would take pictures of what we found. So we could write the report when we got back. And if it was out in the middle of nowhere, a lot of the times they would, they would blow it in place. We have to wait for EOD. They wouldn't let us do it.

• 27:02Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's actually really jacked up.

• 27:04Rob Jones?

  I, it's so stupid.

• 27:05Jocko Willink?

  That is so jacked up.

• 27:06Rob Jones?

  Because there's only one EOD unit for the like, four EOD guys for the entire battalion.

• 27:12Jocko Willink?

  And not to mention, that's the fun part.

• 27:14Rob Jones?

  Exactly. And I have, I, I know how to, they used to, back in like 2005, combat engineers were doing all that all the time. You just lay it out. You just sympathetically detonate it with a stick of C4 and that's all it is.

• 27:27Jocko Willink?

  You know what this is? It's because the war had slowed down.

• 27:29Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 27:30Jocko Willink?

  That's what it is. When the war slows down, all of a sudden people start putting the rules and regulations and I, wait, no, we could have an EOD do that.

• 27:36Rob Jones?

  Well, and it's that same thing. We had the heaviest, I'm, I'm sure when you guys were in Ramadi, you just had the standard flak vest. We had this ridiculous turtle shell, front sappies, back sappies, side sappies, neck protector, groin protector, everything but protector. Like it was just the, the vest itself was 70 pounds.

• 28:01Jocko Willink?

  Let me tell you something interesting about that. When we were in Ramadi, not everyone had that. And everyone wanted it.

• 28:09Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Jocko Willink?

  And they, they did their best. I remember actually, uh, the Colonel of the Brigade coming down and bringing side sappy plates down to combat outpost to hand them out to guys, cause everybody wanted them. They wanted the neck protectors, the shoulder protectors, the groin protectors. They wanted everything.

• 28:25Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:25Jocko Willink?

  I mean, most, oh, many guys just, hey, y- you know, especially you're sitting in a turret. Or, y- yeah, like, load me up. I want all that, the neck, they wanted it all.

• 28:35Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:37Jocko Willink?

  Because it was gnarly.

• 28:38Rob Jones?

  Yeah, and then go try and do a hit on a house with it.

• 28:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, that, that part's not fun.

• 28:44Rob Jones?

  But, uh, but so it's probably that same thing where they're just coming up with all the safety rules and you have to have your helmet, gloves, eye protection on at all times when you're outside the wire, so. For whatever reason, they didn't let us blow it up, so we'd have to wait for EOD to come out. And then they would either blow it up there, if it was out in the middle of nowhere, but if it was in the city, they would usually take it somewhere.

• 29:07Jocko Willink?

  And, and meanwhile, the rest of the combat engineer battalion are out do, helping with the building, the structures, building schools, helping the infrastructure and stuff like that?

• 29:17Rob Jones?

  It would depend. I mean, yeah, so whatever that platoon that they were attached to was doing, they'd just be doing that. And then every now and then, if they needed all of us back to build up an Iraqi police station, they would call everybody in, or everybody but a couple of guys in, and we'd all go out as a platoon to build that.

• 29:34Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 29:35Rob Jones?

  But I spent most of my time just doing the cash sweeping and going on patrols.

• 29:39Jocko Willink?

  So within the platoon are certain people designated as like mine sweepers? Or does everyone get trained in that?

• 29:46Rob Jones?

  No, everybody should be able to do it.

• 29:47Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 29:48Rob Jones?

  Um.

• 29:48Jocko Willink?

  How come you kept getting the, because you volunteered for that? You said, hey, I'll go find the

• 29:52Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, and my fire team was, or my squad was kind of.

• 30:01Rob Jones?

  We didn't want to do the construction stuff because we thought it was boring. I wasn't great at constru- I could swing a hammer, but you know, I wasn't like, good at it. Um, and so, we kind of tried to put ourselves in positions where we wouldn't have to go do that stuff.

• 30:16Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 30:16Rob Jones?

  We tried to always be out with the, with the squads, with the platoons as often as we could, so we could avoid the construction stuff. But, yeah, that's what I wanted to be doing.

• 30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Be out on patrol.

• 30:27Rob Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:29Jocko Willink?

  So that, so then that deployment, you come home, and you had already graduated from college at this point, right?

• 30:34Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Jocko Willink?

  And so, you come home, and then what, what happens when you get home? So, what's your plan when you get home?

• 30:39Rob Jones?

  When I get home, well, so we were in Iraq and my buddy, uh, Ronnie and Daniel, we were all drinking, and we were like, that was not what we wanted.

• 30:51Jocko Willink?

  You know what? The good thing is, when you're drinking, that's when you make your best military decisions about what to do with your career, but yeah.

• 30:58Rob Jones?

  We were sitting there going, "That was not what we were hoping it would be."

• 31:04Rob Jones?

  Um, we wanted to do some fighting, do some killing. Um, so we were like, "We gotta figure out a way to go to Afghanistan." And so, we started trying to look up, because we were in the reserves, so sometimes there's, there's programs where you can be an augmentee.

• 31:23Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:23Rob Jones?

  An individual augmentee.

• 31:25Jocko Willink?

  Did you have a civilian job at this point?

• 31:27Rob Jones?

  I didn't, because I just graduated college.

• 31:29Jocko Willink?

  So you just graduated college, then you go on deployment, then you come home, and now you're saying, "All right, what do, how do I get back, how do I, how do I go fight?"

• 31:36Rob Jones?

  I had twenty-five thousand bucks from deployment, so I bought a motorcycle, you know?

• 31:39Jocko Willink?

  Yep, another great decision, you know? That's good investment, good long-term investment for the future.

• 31:45Rob Jones?

  But, yeah, so I was look, I was looking for a job to tide me over, and try, trying everything I could to go to Afghanistan, but luckily, pretty shortly after we got back, we go to drill, and company says, "Send volunteer platoon to Afghanistan," and boom, right here. Because Afghanistan was heating up at this time.

• 32:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:09Rob Jones?

  If you remember, but... But we had, still had to wait about eight or nine months before we went to the workup for that. So I just took a job putting out traffic counters. Like there's little tubes that go across the road and you attach a little electronic box to it. So I just took a job doing that.

• 32:26Jocko Willink?

  That's sort of like related to IEDs, isn't it?

• 32:29Rob Jones?

  A little bit. A little bits on the side of the road.

• 32:30Jocko Willink?

  Crush wire, crush wire on the road.

• 32:34Rob Jones?

  That and I just got in shape and partied.

• 32:37Jocko Willink?

  Now, did you, did you do more drill once you're getting ready to deploy?

• 32:43Rob Jones?

  Uh, yeah. So when I say drill, I guess I should explain, that's the, the deal for reservists to go in.

• 32:51Jocko Willink?

  It's like one weekend.

• 32:51Rob Jones?

  One weekend a month.

• 32:52Jocko Willink?

  That's your drill.

• 32:53Rob Jones?

  That's called the drill, yeah.

• 32:54Jocko Willink?

  Do they escalate that at all when you're gonna deploy?

• 32:58Rob Jones?

  Yeah, so they kind of, they kind of cater the drills that you do based on what, what you're gonna need upcoming. So I do recall, we did a couple where we would do, go do a, like an IED training uh, section and then we would, since I had experience now, we would just take, whenever we were at a drill, we would just start training the other, the new guys that were gonna be going with us on machine guns, metal detectors and just getting them trained up. But, yeah, and so a lot of the training was kind of on our own.

• 33:38Rob Jones?

  Cause you only get that one weekend a month and they only have so much money and they have to train the whole company as opposed to just the platoon that's going.

• 33:44Jocko Willink?

  Right. So, so then did they activate you? How far before deployment do they activate you so you can do some like legitimate, real training?

• 33:54Rob Jones?

  We, so we did, we actually managed to get a month at Camp Lejeune, at Courthouse Bay, which is the combat engineer, uh, school. And so we did manage to get a, a month-long school of, you know, just doing demolition, uh, refreshment, uh, more IED stuff, patrol practice, you know, just doing all sorts of training like that. And then your workup is pretty much just however long it takes to do Mojave Viper with your battalion. And then maybe a month before that.

• 34:28Jocko Willink?

  So, so, maybe three months total before you're going on deployment?

• 34:32Rob Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:33Jocko Willink?

  If you stack it all together?

• 34:33Rob Jones?

  Three, four, three, four months.

• 34:34Jocko Willink?

  Got it. And were you, uh, were the rest of the guys, so it's one platoon that's going?

• 34:40Rob Jones?

  One platoon.

• 34:40Jocko Willink?

  One platoon.

• 34:41Rob Jones?

  Wasn't even a full platoon, it was just three squads.

• 34:43Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So how many guys is that total?

• 34:45Rob Jones?

  It was actually even short squads too, so it was, uh, let me think. Each, there was a fire to nine, 10, 11 per squad.

• 34:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so thirty, thirty-five guys.

• 34:54Rob Jones?

  So like thirty-three and then three for the brass of the platoon, so.

• 34:59Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 35:01Jocko Willink?

  Then you go, you do your desert drill?

• 35:04Rob Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:04Jocko Willink?

  And everyone's unified and then you, do you leave before that and then, then you, and then you go on deployment?

• 35:10Rob Jones?

  Yeah, so they give you a little bit of, uh, yeah, they give you a little bit of leave before you, uh, have to go over, it's like four or five days. So everybody flies home and then

• 35:20Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 35:20Rob Jones?

  Comes back.

• 35:21Jocko Willink?

  So now you show up in Afghanistan and what's, how's that different from Iraq when you get there?

• 35:27Rob Jones?

  You know what? The first portion of it was not that different. Um,

• 35:34Rob Jones?

  the terrain was a lot different.

• 35:35Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:36Rob Jones?

  So.

• 35:36Jocko Willink?

  So where'd you, where'd you first go?

• 35:38Rob Jones?

  So, uh, in Afghanistan, we were, we start, I was, I deployed with three, seven as an attachment, third battalion, seventh Marine Corps regiment. And we were in Delaram, which I'm pretty sure it was in Helmand Province, it was kind of right on the border, so I don't recall exactly, but and pretty much Kilo Company was the company that my squad was attached to, and they got sent out just in the middle of nowhere, um, to a FOB, and then they had a patrol base that was even smaller, even even further out, that I got sent to. I was a team leader.

• 36:14Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:14Rob Jones?

  And so usually you would have one team in the one spot and one team in the other spot, but since we were kind of short on guys, it was pretty much I was the only engineer for that platoon.

• 36:26Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:27Rob Jones?

  And, yeah, so we were in, in Delaram and so and Habenia was urban, everything was, walking through a city, everything was urban, but Afghanistan was just barren.

• 36:40Jocko Willink?

  And what, when you got out to this forward base, what were you do, what were you guys doing out there? What was the, what was the infantry platoon that you were attached to doing out there?

• 36:48Rob Jones?

  Uh, patrolling, so it was kind of similar, that's why I say it wasn't a whole lot different from Iraq, cause we were Basically just interacting with the local populace. Uh, finding out what they needed, providing security for that area. Like they had a bazaar that would come every weekend, so we'd go out and provide security for that. And so I was still

• 37:08Rob Jones?

  using my metal detector to clear danger areas if we can't. There was a lot of wadi's out there, so we'd have to funnel through the wadi. So I checked that.

• 37:18Jocko Willink?

  How often were you, were you finding IEDs?

• 37:20Rob Jones?

  I didn't find, I didn't find a one out there. No, there was, it was a pretty pacified area. I think we had one firefight that one of the squads got into, and that's it.

• 37:31Jocko Willink?

  So, so your first part of the deployment, and how long was that? How long was that part of the deployment?

• 37:35Rob Jones?

  That was two and a half, three months, I think. So that's kind of like a little tune up.

• 37:39Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 37:40Rob Jones?

  And then we passed that area off to the Georgian army. And that's when we moved to Sangin to, to take over from the Brits.

• 37:50Jocko Willink?

  And now Sangin's in like, that's Helmand Province. Central, right? I mean, that's, that's, that's it.

• 37:57Rob Jones?

  Yeah, that's Taliban central down there. Uh, yeah.

• 38:01Jocko Willink?

  And as soon as you get on the ground there, did you feel it when you got on the ground?

• 38:05Rob Jones?

  We knew, yeah. I mean,

• 38:08Rob Jones?

  we, we kind of did a push into that area before we actually moved out there. And we knew shit was getting real. When we, uh, they just, they're like pack up a pack. And we got on the helicopter. And they just flew us out and just dropped us off in the middle of absolutely nowhere. And we just started walking. Just leave your packs here and start walking that way. And just, just basically just taking territory from the Taliban.

• 38:39Jocko Willink?

  Now, did you guys do a thorough turnover with the Brits?

• 38:44Rob Jones?

  I wasn't a part of that, but. Not real, I mean, we, we pretty much came into FOB Inkerman and we're there for a day, day and a half and.

• 38:54Jocko Willink?

  And the Brits were gone?

• 38:55Rob Jones?

  No, no, we.

• 38:56Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you came in and then you, you pushed out. So the Brits were there when you were, when you were there on the ground?

• 39:00Rob Jones?

  Yeah, we were both there at the same time.

• 39:02Jocko Willink?

  Probably the headquarters elements were doing a turnover, but they were like, hey, we're getting our boys out in the field.

• 39:07Rob Jones?

  We started pushing immediately and we had a couple Royal Marines with us and some British Army with us. I think they had a small or maybe a tow that we didn't have. So like units that we, we needed from them, they would send out with us and they were great.

• 39:25Rob Jones?

  But from what I understood, they just didn't have the manpower to really do much.

• 39:28Jocko Willink?

  Were they, the guys that were with you, were you, were they giving you any turnover items? Like, hey, you need to look out for this. Hey, this is what's going on here?

• 39:35Rob Jones?

  No, I didn't receive any. Cause I, I just don't think they really went out much. So I don't, not really sure how much they really could have told us about what was outside of the patrol bases. And I never, I don't even remember. I think we may have talked to their combat engineers. We got some demo from them. Like, hey, can we have some deckord? And they gave it to us and that's about it.

• 39:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And that's because they were just completely undermanned.

• 40:00Rob Jones?

  Yeah, but from what I understand, I mean, obviously I'm not a part of the upper echelon out there and stuff, but I think that's the reason they just, they set up patrol base and they had the patrol bases. But they pretty much just sat there and got ambu- and got shot at every day and didn't, didn't do a whole lot of patrolling.

• 40:16Jocko Willink?

  So, so then you guys roll in and the, the, like the broad strategies, you're going to start moving from patrol base, you're going to push out, take another compound, secure it and then operate out of there for a while and then push, push on?

• 40:30Rob Jones?

  Pretty much just take the Taliban's territory by going out, clearing a compound. And that's what a major part of what I was doing on this push was clearing compounds, just in case they were booby trapped. And then, yeah, we take over that compound, sandbag it up, knock down some trees with some explosives, create those fields of fire. And then once that was set up, we start doing some patrols, security patrols and then.

• 41:00Rob Jones?

  Repeat.

• 41:01Jocko Willink?

  And were you guys getting in contact with the Taliban more often?

• 41:05Rob Jones?

  They were pretty much shooting at us most days, mortaring us most days, not very accurate.

• 41:13Rob Jones?

  But yeah, they were shooting at us at least and we would go out on patrols, they'd shoot at us.

• 41:19Rob Jones?

  But they're always shooting from way far away and, you know, we'd shoot back, but it wasn't like... Further on in the deployment, when the corns, when the corn grew a lot taller, I wasn't there for it because I had gotten hurt by them, but that was when they were like, people were shooting at each other in the cornfield like five feet away.

• 41:40Jocko Willink?

  So, but, but while you were there, it was more distant, really far distant contact? Were you guys taking any casualties?

• 41:49Rob Jones?

  I think not, not tons. I mean, obviously every one is a major, major sacrifice, but there was one sniper that got killed on the initial push on Musa Kallah before we even got to Sangin'. And besides that, I don't remember. Oh, my buddy Ronnie got hit in the face with a piece of RPG. He didn't go home, he just had to go get it taken care of. So, minor stuff like that.

• 42:19Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, that minor stuff only happens when stuff is going on.

• 42:22Rob Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:23Jocko Willink?

  So, and by the way, that little piece of shrapnel, you know, that thing can kill you just as easily as, you know, a full piece of shrapnel.

• 42:30Rob Jones?

  It wet in his eye.

• 42:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:34Jocko Willink?

  But I would say, so, so you're, you're like now, every patrol that you guys are going out is like, hey, now how, how often are you finding IEDs at this point?

• 42:45Rob Jones?

  Not tons.

• 42:50Rob Jones?

  Trying to think. Every now and then, not very often.

• 42:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Rob Jones?

  I mean, because I think the area that we were in initially was still pretty close to the main FOB. And then as you went out, there'd be

• 43:05Rob Jones?

  just fields of them and the way that we were getting out to the patrol bases where we were using Miklax. And so that was mitigating a lot of the searching that we would have had to do.

• 43:22Rob Jones?

  So in that initial area, we weren't finding tons? Just every, every now and then?

• 43:26Jocko Willink?

  And I, well, I don't, I don't know if this is right or not, but you know, the closer you get to a FOB, you have security on the FOB, you have guys that are looking out. So it's hard for someone to come in and, and dig out and put an ID in the ground. So you're, you got some level of security around the FOBs most of the time. Obviously, there could be something there pre-existing. And, um,

• 43:46Jocko Willink?

  day-to-day life? Are you guys, are you guys on MREs? Are you guys getting chow? Or what's, what's going on day-to-day life?

• 43:54Rob Jones?

  Oh, man. I wish we had MRE. So at some point during the deployment, we started on MREs. You know, I like MREs. I think they're good.

• 44:04Jocko Willink?

  You're sick.

• 44:08Jocko Willink?

  I, I used to like MREs when I was like 22 and then I OD'd on them.

• 44:14Rob Jones?

  Man, I didn't, I didn't mind them too much. But then, when we started doing these pushes, we got these things called first-strike rations. Like the new MRE. But here's the problem with these first-strike, they were awesome. When we first got on the first week, they were awesome. But the Marine Corps only decided it would be good to buy three different meals.

• 44:39Rob Jones?

  And kind of at the same time, we had outrun our water supply. So we were just stopping off at Wells. And guess what? Nobody had any kind of purifying stuff.

• 44:50Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 44:51Rob Jones?

  Um, so we were just drinking well water. And obviously, what you would expect to happen, happened. Everybody was getting sick. Just, you know, diarrhea, vomiting.

• 45:03Jocko Willink?

  That's crazy. No purification tabs or anything?

• 45:06Rob Jones?

  I guess they didn't expect us to need to use Wells. But the first day, everybody ran out of water by the, by the time that we ended. And we're like, well, we just gotta go get well water.

• 45:17Jocko Willink?

  Isn't that crazy? A purification pill is like, I'm talking at you, Echo, like it's a little tiny thing. Like you can carry them so easily and they completely change the game. Cause you can take that water out of a well or a stream. That's got whatever bacteria on it, put that pill, put that thing in there, shake it up, you're good to go.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Does it taste different?

• 45:35Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Not really?

• 45:36Jocko Willink?

  Not, not really.

• 45:37Rob Jones?

  People use them camping.

• 45:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 45:38Rob Jones?

  This iodine tablets.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:41Jocko Willink?

  And you can also bring a filter. Like when I hike, I bring a filter, which is a little pump.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Like a Brita?

• 45:46Jocko Willink?

  Pump. No, it's not a Brita.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  You know those pitcher?

• 45:49Jocko Willink?

  No, it's not that. It's a little pump, little pump.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:53Jocko Willink?

  So, and how long are you guys going out in the field for?

• 45:56Rob Jones?

  Um, let's see, the first push in Musakala was about two weeks. And so we just, yeah, walk for two weeks. We walk to a compound, stop for the day. Set security, spend the night, walk to the next one. If they shoot at us, fight back, kill them, whatever, do whatever we gotta do. And then we just kept pushing out and pushing out. And then eventually we got to a point in that first Musakala push where, uh, for whatever reason, they just, they just said, all right, now you're gonna walk back.

• 46:31Rob Jones?

  So, I think, I think maybe our, uh, I think maybe our battalion commander had actually, he had been a little bit too aggressive and had gone beyond his limits that his boss wanted him to do.

• 46:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Rob Jones?

  So we ended up having to give up territory we had just taken.

• 46:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 46:51Rob Jones?

  And, yeah, so that was two weeks, but then, once we got to Sangin, it was pretty much, spend a day doing the push, take the compounds. And then you're kind of in the compound, you just go out and patrol and you come back. So we weren't really out in the field, field, uh, for all that long, but, you know, being in a compound's still not exactly luxury.

• 47:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you still don't have showers or...

• 47:15Rob Jones?

  It's not the Konaka Resort.

• 47:17Jocko Willink?

  Definitely not. All right, man, um...

• 47:27Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna talk about, I'm gonna go to your journal here. Cause obviously on one of these patrols, you got hit.

• 47:36Jocko Willink?

  And here's what you wrote about it.

• 47:41Jocko Willink?

  "Two things happened simultaneously when whatever explosive device that hit me exploded. First, the shockwave cut through my toes, severing them.

• 47:54Jocko Willink?

  It didn't slow, as it cut through my shins, severing them next.

• 48:00Jocko Willink?

  It sent dirt, grit, and shrapnel upward into my legs, buttocks, and any other part of my body that was exposed.

• 48:10Jocko Willink?

  Next, it launched me a few feet into the air and deposited me onto the ground, unconscious.

• 48:17Jocko Willink?

  Blood was pouring out of the newly opened arteries and into the dirt. Muscle and bone dangled from the remnants of my legs. Vicious bacteria latched on and invaded through the new openings.

• 48:34Jocko Willink?

  The dust rose and settled, and I woke up.

• 48:41Jocko Willink?

  The first ten seconds after waking up, all I could hear were my own screams. All I could see was a blurry tunnel looking up to the sky.

• 48:53Jocko Willink?

  The weird thing about the screams was that my brain wasn't telling my body to produce them. It was almost as if my mind was no longer present and my body was just reacting. Or more like panicking. They were the kind of screams that are emitted from a person regardless of the consideration of the personal pride that the person has. No matter how much their pride makes them resist crying out, they don't have a choice in the matter.

• 49:24Jocko Willink?

  They inhale two lungfuls of air, open their mouth as wide as it will go, and expel that air with full force, producing a scream that pierces the air and changes pitch with no control."

• 49:39Jocko Willink?

  As seconds clicked away, my mind started to come back online, and my body calmed down.

• 49:47Jocko Willink?

  I stopped screaming, and my other senses returned. I smelled dust and the unique chemical smell of a recent explosion.

• 49:58Jocko Willink?

  I tasted it on my tongue and in my throat. After that, my feeling came back. It wasn't so much pain as one would imagine it, but more like my lower legs had fallen asleep for so long that it hurt. Except magnified by fifty times.

• 50:18Jocko Willink?

  I knew that they were gone, but how much?

• 50:22Jocko Willink?

  I had decided before I left on this deployment that I could live with below-the-knee amputations, but anything higher than that, no thanks. I'd rather bleed out.

• 50:33Jocko Willink?

  I could hear Keith Johnson telling me that they were coming for me, and soon he and Shane Otwell were over me applying tourniquets to the bleeding stumps that used to be legs.

• 50:44Jocko Willink?

  I mustered up the courage to look at my hands.

• 50:49Jocko Willink?

  Intact.

• 50:51Jocko Willink?

  I moved them downward to check on something vastly more important.

• 50:57Jocko Willink?

  The numbness I felt down there left me unsure of its status. "Just kill me," I croaked out. They ignored me, of course, and kept telling me how everything was going to be okay. They were holding my hands as the corpsman knelt over me and delivered the sweet, sweet morphine that made it all better.

• 51:18Jocko Willink?

  "Kill me, man," I said again. "I don't want to live like this. I think my dick is gone."

• 51:25Jocko Willink?

  "Your dick is still there, man." "Do you want me to touch it?" Johnson asked. I chuckled with relief as I replied, "No."

• 51:36Jocko Willink?

  I asked whether the legs were gone above or below the knee. I was reassured to hear that both were a few inches below.

• 51:46Jocko Willink?

  By this time, I was high from the morphine and was saying everything that crossed my mind.

• 51:52Jocko Willink?

  As the corpsman continued to work and we waited for the ten line casavac to be called in, I thought about all the things I wouldn't be doing anymore. I thought about playing racquetball. I thought about working out in the gym. I thought about being in a wheelchair for the next fifty years.

• 52:07Jocko Willink?

  I never thought about how I was bleeding profusely from two major arteries and could die.

• 52:15Jocko Willink?

  I never once thought I would die, which may seem unusual for a person in my position.

• 52:21Jocko Willink?

  Naturally optimistic, I suppose. Although it is hard to claim that I was being optimistic considering I wanted to cash out permanently.

• 52:33Jocko Willink?

  In my defense, I had no idea what life was like as an amputee, and if I had back then, I wouldn't have made that request. Either way, I'm glad I stuck around.

• 52:46Jocko Willink?

  Around this time, I decided to sit up and take a look at the damage.

• 52:52Jocko Willink?

  I took a deep breath and gulped. I slowly started sitting up, but when I got to the point where going further would reveal my shredded legs, I had a change of heart.

• 53:05Jocko Willink?

  I didn't see the blood-soaked dirt. I didn't see the disjointed lower parts of my calves and shins along with my feet. Or the jagged edge of my remaining limbs, the skin roughly burned and shorn, the bones sticking out, and the ripped muscle dangling along the ground.

• 53:25Jocko Willink?

  I didn't want that image to be inside of my head because I knew it would be one that I would never be able to forget.

• 53:33Jocko Willink?

  I deeply regret the fact that there are those that I consider friends that were forced to have that image in their mind and will have to live with it for their entire lives.

• 53:45Jocko Willink?

  Secondly, I was afraid of seeing the wound. Would make it hurt even more, much like a scraped knee as a child.

• 53:55Jocko Willink?

  I laid back down and let the morphine keep doing its job.

• 54:01Jocko Willink?

  I started getting sleepy.

• 54:04Jocko Willink?

  I just wanted to close my eyes. I thought maybe if I closed my eyes, I would pass away easily. Slap! Otwell's hand slapped my cheek as he yelled at me to stay awake. "Just let me sleep, just let me sleep," I mumbled, closing my eyes again. Another slap. That was the last time I did that. Finally, the stretcher that was going to carry me out arrived. Four strong men lifted me onto it, grabbed each one of the handles and started carrying me to an assault breacher vehicle.

• 54:42Jocko Willink?

  They were carrying me away from the war I volunteered to participate in and the Marines that I was supposed to be leading and protecting.

• 54:50Jocko Willink?

  They would have to go on without me, all because I had failed in my job, failed to find the IED that I knew was somewhere around us.

• 54:59Jocko Willink?

  That failure was a hard pill to swallow then, and it remains so to this day.

• 55:05Jocko Willink?

  I didn't feel good about leaving them behind, but I knew they would understand.

• 55:11Jocko Willink?

  I knew they would be okay without me.

• 55:16Jocko Willink?

  We got to the assault breacher vehicle, and I asked Jimmy Goodwin one last time to put me out of my misery.

• 55:24Jocko Willink?

  After his refusal, that was the last time I ever contemplated accepting that avenue. They slid me into the back of the vehicle, and with some Marines I had never met, whose faces I can remember seeing but don't remember any of their features.

• 55:42Jocko Willink?

  The corpsman said he was gonna give me something to put me to sleep, and I finally got to close my eyes as everything went black.

• 56:05Jocko Willink?

  You're pretty clear about what happened.

• 56:09Rob Jones?

  I remember it pretty lucidly, surprisingly.

• 56:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 56:13Rob Jones?

  I don't know. Yeah, I was, I think I was unconscious for maybe 20 seconds, I would estimate, because they hadn't even, they hadn't gotten to me by the time I woke up. And I don't think they would have spent a whole lot of time.

• 56:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 56:27Rob Jones?

  I think one of my guys might have cleared over to me, but I, I don't know.

• 56:34Rob Jones?

  Kind of wish I had thought of something better to say. Like, "They got me, boys." You know, something like...

• 56:40Jocko Willink?

  Pre, lesson learned, preload a really cool cinematic moment.

• 56:46Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 56:47Jocko Willink?

  And script.

• 56:48Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  To go with.

• 56:49Rob Jones?

  Just in case.

• 56:50Jocko Willink?

  At the critical point.

• 56:52Rob Jones?

  Oh man, no, but I wish I would have thought of something better than, "My duck's still there."

• 56:58Jocko Willink?

  Makes sense, so.

• 56:59Rob Jones?

  Oh, yeah, that's vastly more important, like I said.

• 57:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, something vastly more important.

• 57:05Rob Jones?

  But the interesting thing about, they said I was, uh, below the knee.

• 57:09Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:10Rob Jones?

  And... So a lot of the times what happens, you might be below the knee at sight of injury, but, like I said, infection, that dirt over there is nasty, we're not used to their bacteria. It'll get in there, it'll infect, and they'll have to end up chopping you off higher to save your life because of the, the infection's just uncontrollable. And also, if they don't have viable tissue, bones and muscles that they can sculpt in such a way that you can put a prosthetic on there, they'll just cut you off where, at the next, you know, viable spot would be.

• 57:51Jocko Willink?

  Right. And, um, there's gotta be like, you, you know, you had to have known, or, you, you know this is a possibility, right? When you're over there? How much did you think about that possibility?

• 58:07Rob Jones?

  It's probably the same thing as when you were going through a money. I mean, you know. Everybody knows you could, you could die. You could get killed.

• 58:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 58:16Rob Jones?

  But it's not gonna be me.

• 58:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 58:18Rob Jones?

  It's probably not gonna happen.

• 58:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Rob Jones?

  Um, but you kinda have to do that, don't you? I mean, if you, if you, if I'm sitting there sweeping. And I'm thinking, okay, here we go. This could be it. Every step, I'm not gonna be effective.

• 58:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's gotta be, whether people refer to it the way I refer to it, like the idea of detachment and you're just like not gonna think about that. Everybody must be doing that, cause otherwise you'd go freaking crazy. Like if you were just thinking this next step could be the one, I don't, you'd never be able to take a step.

• 58:46Rob Jones?

  You couldn't handle it.

• 58:47Jocko Willink?

  And you go out there on patrol and you see Marines and soldiers and SEALs that, I know, everyone's doing their job.

• 58:52Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Jocko Willink?

  Just completely setting that fear aside and saying, okay, that's a possibility. Cool. I don't have time to worry about that right now. I'm gonna get it done.

• 59:01Rob Jones?

  But, uh, I have, I made a dark joke before I went to Afghanistan. I did this 5K with a buddy. He said, oh, we're gonna do it again when, when we get back from Afghan, when you get back from Afghanistan. I was like, yeah, except you're gonna be pulling me in a rickshaw, cause I'm gonna have both my legs blown off.

• 59:22Rob Jones?

  He has yet to pull me in the rickshaw, but.

• 59:27Jocko Willink?

  That's not funny.

• 59:28Rob Jones?

  I, I mean.

• 59:31Rob Jones?

  Talk about, you know, fate or whatever. I don't know what, what.

• 59:37Jocko Willink?

  No, I don't know. That's fate. That's just bad humor. I think that's what we call that.

• 59:43Jocko Willink?

  But you know what? That is, that is a way you deal with these things, right?

• 59:46Rob Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:47Jocko Willink?

  I mean, like, hey, we were kinda talking about in the car over here, just like sick humor that you end up with in the military. Because you have to take that thought, which is in your head, like it's gotta be in your head. So what are you gonna do with it? Are you gonna let it like burden you down and make you inoperable and make you not be able to do your job? Or are you, you know what? We're gonna make a joke about it. And that's how we're gonna get through this. So more than anything else, it's actually great. I shouldn't have said bad humor. I should have said great humor. Cause that's the kind of humor that we'd hear that all the time.

• 1:00:16Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Jocko Willink?

  You know, all the time from guys from my seals were ridiculous. My guys are just, I mean, the sickest sense of humor you could imagine. And but yeah, the same thing with the soldiers. And there wasn't even, there's no barrier. Like, there's no barrier for that sick sense of humor when you're in the military. It's just like there. And you're allowed pretty much to say it across services. You know, you can make a joke to a marine or an army soldier about something. And they they're not gonna be, they're not gonna be offended by it. It's gonna, everyone's got that same twisted sense of humor that really, if you think about it, we're all probably using to cope with, you know, the the fact that these bad things might happen.

• 1:00:55Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I think I've often like try and wonder why they say, you know, laughter is the best medicine and and why it's so true. And I think it it acts to normalize your situation. So you know how if you're about to try and deadlift like a thousand pounds prior for you, something like that?

• 1:01:19Jocko Willink?

  Eight thousand.

• 1:01:21Rob Jones?

  You're trying to deadlift eight thousand pounds and you're sitting there going, there's no way I'm gonna deadlift this eight thousand pounds. You're gonna go up to it and it's gonna stick to the ground. And it's that predeterminacy, self predetermination.

• 1:01:31Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:01:33Rob Jones?

  And so if you're sitting there, let's say after I got hurt and I'm sitting there going, this is the worst thing to ever happen. This sucks. I hate this. It's so serious. It's such a big deal. Then, yeah, it becomes the worst thing to ever happen. And I just kind of get into that groove. But if you can make a joke about it, it kind of makes fun of it. So it's not as serious.

• 1:02:01Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:02Rob Jones?

  And so. When something's not as serious or not as big a deal, you make fun of something, it kind of becomes normal to you and a little bit easier to, to accept. Like if you saw, if I saw my drill instructor crack a smile at any point, if he even like did this, anything like that, then they automatically lose their, their persona.

• 1:02:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:27Rob Jones?

  So if, and you can tell sometimes they were getting ready to crack a smile and they'd be like,

• 1:02:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Rob Jones?

  And they'd just walk off.

• 1:02:33Jocko Willink?

  They'd have to just walk away.

• 1:02:35Rob Jones?

  So I think, I think that, that's probably why you have to maintain your humor in order to survive. You really do.

• 1:02:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no doubt about that. That's awesome.

• 1:02:49Jocko Willink?

  Going back to your journal here, "It took me five days to make it from dusty, uncomfortable blast crater in Afghanistan to a sterile, uncomfortable hospital bed in the ICU at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. Luckily for me, I was much too high on, what's that, dilaudid?

• 1:03:07Rob Jones?

  Dilaudid?

• 1:03:09Jocko Willink?

  Dilaudid.

• 1:03:10Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Jocko Willink?

  To notice the bed or the trip. My amputations had started out below the knee, but somewhere during the three hospital stops along the way, the need rose for the remaining portions below my knees to be taken off. A lot of the time, this is due to infections that are picked up from the dirt in Afghanistan. Or maybe there wasn't much that existed below the knees to keep, to make keeping them viable. On the bright side, however, the stumps that were remaining were of a significant length for an above knee amputation. I was left with the entire femur on my left leg and only a few inches shy on my right leg. I found it funny that throughout my entire hospital stay,

• 1:03:55Jocko Willink?

  the remainder of my legs were always referred to as "stumps" by the medical staff. I had expected a more elegant term, considering the fact that this was a hospital. At the same time, however, I enjoyed the casual nature of the word stump and even considered naming them at one point. Later, when perusing my medical records, I found the elegant term I had been looking for, "residual limb."

• 1:04:24Jocko Willink?

  Along with the major injuries I sustained, I also had a few minor injuries. I use the term minor loosely here, seeing as how these minor injuries would be considered major if they weren't sustained in tandem with the severing of one's lower legs. Starting from the lower portions first, I lost a portion of the muscles making up the inner part of my right thigh. In order to close that wound, I would require a skin graft taken from the skin of my left thigh. My buttocks sustained several large wounds from shrapnel, some close to the sphincter, but mostly in the more meaty parts. That was okay, though. I have always had an extra butt muscle to go around.

• 1:05:07Jocko Willink?

  The close proximity of these wounds to the working parts of the digestive system resulted in the doctors diverting my intestines to a colostomy bag that came through my abdominal area. The reason for doing this wasn't because of any damage to the intestines, but because the doctors wanted to make sure that the large wounds on my butt didn't get infected. As for upper body injuries, I had some minor burns to my hands and two totally perforated eardrums. The hands would heal and my eardrums would be replaced with cartilage. I consider myself extremely lucky that I still have all ten fingers in perfect working condition, my eyes, and most significantly, a brain that made it through the blast with only a grade-three concussion and no residual traumatic brain injuries.

• 1:05:51Jocko Willink?

  While I may face hardships and have some sort of discomfort constantly throughout the day as a result of wearing prosthetics, at least it doesn't hurt. I don't have constant pain. Constant pain is a much more harrowing plight than mine, and I can't imagine how hard it is to withstand. I spent my first week at Bethesda in the intensive care unit. I had a tube down my throat, one tube going into my arm, a breathing tube in my nose, a catheter, pads monitoring my heart rate, an epidural in my lower spine, and a wire for my pain button. Both my hands were wrapped in gauze from my burns. My legs were also wrapped in gauze, along with having wound vac machines attach them to suck

• 1:06:35Jocko Willink?

  out excess fluids leaking from my wounds. My rear end had a pad of gauze for the wounds there. The incision down the center of my abs used for my colostomy had been stapled back together, and the bottom parts of my stumps where the skin was reconnected were stitched together.

• 1:07:01Jocko Willink?

  Man. Like, you know, you just, it's just piling all that other stuff onto, and just like you said, you, you lost your legs and you're like, oh, you know, that's pretty much what, a guy like me? I focus, oh, he lost his legs, you know? Obviously freaking horrible, and then, you know, a guy like me, I'm not thinking about all these other injuries that you're sustaining and all the medical things that have to happen to get that stuff straightened out.

• 1:07:32Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, any one of those, just, like, if it happened to one of us right now, any one of those would be major, but they're just pretty much nothing compared to the actual major thing that happened.

• 1:07:47Jocko Willink?

  And, and you're just, so are you just drugged up at this point?

• 1:07:52Rob Jones?

  Yeah. Uh, for that first week, I mean, yeah, just deluded haze, hallucinations and that kind of thing, and surgeries.

• 1:08:05Rob Jones?

  I would hallucinate nasty things like being hit by a mortar and seeing my legs splattered for whatever reason, my mom was there.

• 1:08:15Rob Jones?

  And then I, I recall, for the first couple of weeks, every now and then, I don't know how to describe, with something would happen, you felt explosions before, and there's kind of that, when the shockwave goes through you, and you kind of feel your brain kind of jar a little bit. I would kind of feel that, and then for a split second...

• 1:08:40Rob Jones?

  I would kind of, it would be like I was getting hit by an explosion for a split second like that. And I'd be like, did I just, did I just pass out or something? And be like, no. I was like, what is that? So, but that, you know, that ended up all the way.

• 1:08:54Jocko Willink?

  Like some kind of like aft, like mental aftershocks or something?

• 1:08:56Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I, yeah, I don't know what it was. It's, I asked the doctors about it. They said, um, I'm never, I don't know what that is, but luckily it went away. And after, maybe it had something to do with the, the drugs. I don't know, but, uh, yeah, but you know, eventually you get used to that and body kind of gets adapted to it. And you get your senses back and it's hard to look at a computer screen for the first couple of weeks still, but eventually I would see ants crawling on me.

• 1:09:27Rob Jones?

  Uh, but yeah, you know, so eventually all that kind of goes away and you're just stuck with your little button for pain. I, I remember they, you can only hit the, they'll only let you hit it every three, four or five minutes or something like that. And they would come in during the first little bit and they would say, you know, you can only hit that thing like 12 times in a minute, right? I said, yeah, and then they say, well, you hit it about a hundred and 10 times in the last hour. And I'm like, well, I'd be, I'd, cause I'd be kind of like falling asleep and then I'd hit it and be like, oh, make sure I, make sure I got that hit. And so I just hit it again.

• 1:10:09Rob Jones?

  And so, yeah, and then, but eventually kind of get used to it and then pain starts to go away.

• 1:10:16Jocko Willink?

  I'm sitting here thinking about like, I've been hospitalized a couple of times for a couple of different surgeries. And what a complete pussy I was, you know? And they're like, oh, this hurts, you know, and I, you know, this is, this is to, you know, re- repair something. Like I had a hernia operation, I had a neck surgery. Like these are planned operations.

• 1:10:38Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:38Jocko Willink?

  The openings in my body were made by a highly skilled surgeon, you know? And I'm in there like, oh, this sucks so bad. And I mean, I can't, I like, what you have is like a thousand times, a thousand times worse. And it's, it's, it's hard to even imagine. And then on top of this, I'm going back to the journal here. To top it all off, I had my pirate hat on my head. I was practically being held together by duct tape like an old dilapidated chair. You're trying to get one or one more good year out of. What's up with the pirate hat?

• 1:11:09Rob Jones?

  Well. So you're not supposed to wake up when you go through Germany. So basically you go from site of injury to Camp Leverneck to Bagram Air Force Base to Lanzstuhl, Germany to Bethesda, Maryland for Marines and then you just go straight to Walter Reed for anybody else. Marines and sailors go to Bethesda. And so for whatever reason, I wake up in Germany for, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes. And my squad leader was there. Uh, he was there for something else. I don't remember what he was there for. But so he was there. And he kind of told me what happened and that kind of thing.

• 1:11:52Rob Jones?

  And I just, I couldn't help but think, even though I was super drugged up, like my mom is gonna not, she's gonna be sad. And so all I could think of, I'm always trying to crack a joke or whatever. So I was like, see if you can, see if you can find a funny hat to wear when.

• 1:12:14Rob Jones?

  And he couldn't find one, right? They're not gonna have funny hats in a hospital. It's a serious place. He went and looked, I guess. Maybe he just went outside the rooms. I couldn't find one.

• 1:12:24Jocko Willink?

  He didn't go to the funny hat store?

• 1:12:27Rob Jones?

  Uh, Bagram has a lot of things or Germany has a lot of things, but uh, maybe not a funny hat store. Uh, so couldn't find one. I get to Bethesda and when you get to the hospital, they pick you up from wherever they fly you into in these big, basically semi tractor trailer hos- uh, ambulances. And they, they have, they, they alert the hospital, we're coming, we're gonna be there at 2:00 PM and all the doctors come down and they rush you in and uh, do what you need to do. And so a lot of the times that's where families will see their, their servicemen when they first get back, when they're unloading them and they give them kind of, you know, 15,

• 1:13:11Rob Jones?

  20 seconds to, hey, good to see you. And then they take you off. And I don't know how it happened, but I'm rolling down the thing and there's my mom. She has this pirate hat in her hand.

• 1:13:29Rob Jones?

  I don't know if somehow they got word back to her.

• 1:13:32Jocko Willink?

  You still don't know?

• 1:13:33Rob Jones?

  That, uh, no, I haven't. I think, I think somebody else brought it.

• 1:13:38Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:39Rob Jones?

  I don't think she brought it, but I don't know why they would have brought me a pirate hat. Unless somebody had found out that I had asked for a stupid hat or something. Cause I've, I've never been known to wear, you know, pirate hats are stupid hats before. So there's my mom with a stupid hat. And then, so it kinda became a theme. Like people would bring me a stupid hat when they came and visited me. So I had a, a big bag eventually.

• 1:14:05Rob Jones?

  But, so, I guess what happened, you know, I, I hope it kind of helped my, ease the pain a little bit for my mom. In that initial, that initial, uh, meeting, maybe a little bit, but, uh, I don't know.

• 1:14:20Jocko Willink?

  So then you spend, how long you in, are you in like ICU for where they're trying to get you more stabilized?

• 1:14:26Rob Jones?

  I was probably there for about a week and then you move up to the, the fifth floor of the hospital, which is kinda where they put all the amputees and there were actually three Joneses there at the time. So the nurses had to be very careful and on top of that, my, I'm Jones RR. First two initials. My buddy who got hit maybe an hour before me, his name is Jones DD. And then the third Jones was Jones JJ.

• 1:14:52Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:14:53Rob Jones?

  So they had to be on it with, you know, with checking what medications are going to, to who.

• 1:15:00Jocko Willink?

  Eesh.

• 1:15:02Rob Jones?

  But yeah, so that, then you go up to the fifth floor and that's kinda where you start to become lucid and that's where they

• 1:15:12Rob Jones?

  physical therapists start to come in and that's where, once you're kinda ready, like you start just lifting a leg one 10 times, just lift your stomach 10 times.

• 1:15:21Jocko Willink?

  And you described that in your journal where it was like exhausting for you to do that.

• 1:15:25Rob Jones?

  And it hurt.

• 1:15:27Jocko Willink?

  And what's making it, is it cause you've been laying there for so long? Is because it's a movement that you haven't been able to do in a while?

• 1:15:33Rob Jones?

  I don't know.

• 1:15:34Jocko Willink?

  Just all the above?

• 1:15:35Rob Jones?

  I would imagine a lot of that stuff down there is just swollen and painful.

• 1:15:39Jocko Willink?

  Ah.

• 1:15:39Rob Jones?

  You know, it's, I think that's probably what it would be. And so, yeah, uh, it hurts so bad just to even move it at all. And so they start with that and then eventually you get in your wheelchair and it takes about ten minutes for you to get into your wheelchair and take about four people to get you into your wheelchair. Cause you're just like sliding off and you're just so sore. But you know, eventually you get better and I could, you know, I I made a big deal about the first day that I got in my wheelchair by myself. And then I would go for little rolls around the the floor. And somebody would have to like wheel my uh my little IV pole and I have to hang my catheter bag on the I was so scared.

• 1:16:25Rob Jones?

  I was so like, watch that tube. Do not let that tube get caught into anything.

• 1:16:33Rob Jones?

  And so, yeah, I would, I would just do a few laps around the ward, get out. And then when I was done, I'd go visit my buddy Daniel, cause he couldn't get out of bed yet. Cause he had a

• 1:16:46Rob Jones?

  I don't, I don't know why he couldn't get out of bed, but he couldn't get out of bed, so I'd go in his room and hang out for a little while.

• 1:16:51Jocko Willink?

  So then, and and then how long is it before you're thinking to yourself, okay, or what makes you start thinking this is my game plan, this is where I'm going, like you see guys that are further along the process? And you say, okay, I see what that guy's doing, you know, I I I'm gonna do that too.

• 1:17:09Rob Jones?

  Well, I sent a little uh iPhone message to Daniel, who is still down, still down on the fifth floor, and my buddy took a little, he's like, why don't you say something to Daniel? And so I said, listen, first step, make a workout program to get back to where we were before, to get on our feet again. So it was immediate, I was like, we are going to just work out and we're gonna get better. And you know, so they don't do a whole lot of prosthetics at Bethesda, well, they do now, um but they didn't back then. And so the nurses would kinda have a general idea uh of how the prosthetic stuff went and the physical therapist would know.

• 1:17:52Rob Jones?

  But the major thing was the visits from Walter Reed, so the wounded warrior battalion people would bring people that were further along in their recovery over to visit the guys that had just been freshly wounded.

• 1:18:07Rob Jones?

  And so I got one of those visits, I don't remember. There being a double above the knee amputee that came to see me that was in legs yet. But they had a better idea and they would say, look, you know, you're gonna get over there and you're gonna get your prosthetics and you're gonna be able to walk again. You're gonna be able to run, you're gonna be able to do this and that. And so.

• 1:18:31Rob Jones?

  At that point, I'm like, oh, so I'm not gonna, I don't have to be in a wheelchair forever. Oh, okay. You know, so it was about at that point.

• 1:18:40Jocko Willink?

  And then what, how'd you develop your workout program?

• 1:18:44Rob Jones?

  Well, uh.

• 1:18:48Rob Jones?

  Once I became lucid, I was doing pull-ups on my little triangle. You know how they had the little triangle thing dangling down?

• 1:18:54Jocko Willink?

  Started getting after it.

• 1:18:55Rob Jones?

  I wasn't doing, well, I wasn't doing pull-ups. I was probably doing like. Oh, horizontal rows or something. I was just like lifting myself up. Whenever the physical therapist couldn't come in and. Do her stuff with me, I was like, alright, well, I'm just gonna do, pull myself up on this thing. And.

• 1:19:13Rob Jones?

  So that was, and I kind of, I went off. The therapist's, um. Experience for the, for most of it in the, in the beginning until I kind of got on my own. Because I don't, you know, they're, they've been doing this for. Nine years at that point. So they had a lot of drills and strengthening exercises that I can do and, and that kind of thing. So I just kind of let them. Take the reins and just did whatever they said and then did it again.

• 1:19:43Rob Jones?

  But then once I got to a point where I was, we're kind of where you see me now, I'm walking around, no problem. That's when I started venturing into trying to do regular gym stuff.

• 1:19:56Rob Jones?

  And I invented my own way of doing straight leg deadlifts. So it's, I strap myself to a pole. And I cinch it down. Lean down and I do a straight leg deadlift as a, because I can't squat.

• 1:20:07Jocko Willink?

  Right, right.

• 1:20:10Jocko Willink?

  I thought this was a really cool part of your journal that you wrote and you're talking about getting through that kind of stuff. So here we go, back to the journal. It is easy to be motivated to succeed in the beginning of an endeavor and when you are close to the end. The most difficult part and the part where people quit is when they are in the thick of it and it is unclear whether they have the strength and stamina to make it the rest of the way. While I never actually doubted my ability to walk again during my recovery, I am certainly subject to the inner monologue rationalizing why it is okay to quit or to not push myself

• 1:20:54Jocko Willink?

  to the goal that I have written down on paper. One way I have recognized to aid in shutting that monologue the fuck up is celebrating milestones. The hardest part of working toward a goal is when we are either making slow progress or negative progress and having the patience and confidence to know that the improvements we make over the long periods as opposed to the short periods are what matter. Milestones are what remind us that we are making progress even if it isn't apparent every day. In rowing, I've heard of people that count strokes until the finish line using sets of

• 1:21:36Jocko Willink?

  10. Personally, I like to count 250s for making up a race. When I ran the nation's triathlon, I picked points ahead of me to make it to and when I got there, I'd pick a new point. Anything we can use to keep our minds from succumbing to the monologue will work, not only in short-term goals, but also in long-term goals like graduating from college or learning to use prosthetics.

• 1:22:09Jocko Willink?

  Great advice for anybody to pay attention to. Now you mentioned rowing there. So this was no like a weekend row that you decided to do. This was you got after it.

• 1:22:21Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Jocko Willink?

  So how'd that come about?

• 1:22:24Rob Jones?

  Um, so I was, I was looking for that workout program. I knew at this point, hey, I'm alive. I'm gonna still try and have the best life possible. And so I'm trying to get back what I, what I lost, so to speak. And I used to like working out and going to the gym, getting after it. And so I'm, I'm sitting there going, well, what's a new, what's another way that I can work out now? Um, and so I started looking up. I forget what I looked up, disabled sports or disabled work. I Googled something and

• 1:23:07Jocko Willink?

  Google getting after it.

• 1:23:08Rob Jones?

  Google getting after it.

• 1:23:11Rob Jones?

  And so the Paralympics comes up. I don't know what the heck is apparently. I know the Olympics. I don't know what the Paralympics is. Is that like the Special Olympics? And the answer to that question is no. And so the Paralympics is the Olympics for disabled people, for people with disabilities. So like, all right, well, I fit into that category. Let's see what sports they got. And I saw they had rowing. And I saw, well, you know what? I used to, I used to hit the rowing machine when I was working out.

• 1:23:43Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm. Getting on the Concept 2.

• 1:23:45Rob Jones?

  Yeah, the Concept 2, doing some sprints on that thing. That was pretty tough and I want something that's tough. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna see, I'm gonna look into this rowing thing. And maybe I'll, maybe I'll make the Paralympics one day. And this is when I was just got to the hospital, like my second week in the hospital.

• 1:24:08Jocko Willink?

  Not, not real strong point in the patience area, huh?

• 1:24:13Rob Jones?

  Hey, you gotta set yourself a goal right away.

• 1:24:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17Rob Jones?

  You don't have something you're working towards, then you're just, you know, treading water.

• 1:24:23Rob Jones?

  And so, yeah, and hey, a lot of things fell into place. There was a, I probably didn't go out and try and learn to row on the water until the next year. So I was, my main focus at that point was still learning the prosthetics, getting my strength back. But once I kinda got my strength back and I was, I felt like I was ready to move on, kind of outside of the therapy

• 1:24:49Rob Jones?

  angle on it. I looked up places where I could learn to row and, I mean, it just so happened there was one in DC. And so I went down there and I learned. And, I mean, I don't wanna brag, but the guy said I was a natural. So, uh, it's like, well, maybe I can do this. And so I convinced the, they didn't have a rowing machine in the physical therapy clinic at the time. They had an elliptical. They had all sorts of equipment, but they didn't have a rowing machine. So I convinced the clinic, whoever was running the clinic, to get a rowing machine for me. So I could row.

• 1:25:29Rob Jones?

  And then when I was training for the Nations triathlon, I convinced them to let me bring my bike in and, and ride my bike in the clinic. So I had my own, I started to build my own gym, inside the gym. And I convinced them to get a kettlebell for me and stuff.

• 1:25:45Rob Jones?

  And so, I convinced them to let me, uh, let me have that rowing machine. And so, a couple times a week, I would go down to the water and train on the water. The other times, I would just do some sprints on the, on the rowing machine. And then it just kinda kept, I kept getting better and better. And this was twenty thou, uh, 2011. So then the Paralympics were 2012. And...

• 1:26:10Jocko Willink?

  Now, is there, is there like a specific coach that, that runs the, the, the rowing team?

• 1:26:17Rob Jones?

  There isn't.

• 1:26:20Rob Jones?

  In some sports, there are. There's like, there's a head coach is in charge of everybody and he'll train everybody. Uh, but for my category in Paralympic rowing, it's pretty much you find your own coach. And you show up at this race and if you win that race, then you represent America in all their races for that year.

• 1:26:38Jocko Willink?

  Dang. How far is the row?

• 1:26:40Rob Jones?

  It's a thousand meters.

• 1:26:42Jocko Willink?

  So what is that like? It, it takes you a couple minutes, three minutes?

• 1:26:47Rob Jones?

  Um, so rowing trunk in arms only is my category. So it would take me, my best ever time on the erg was probably like three thirty-eight, I think.

• 1:27:01Jocko Willink?

  And that's like puke level putting out?

• 1:27:03Rob Jones?

  Yeah, for me. Yeah. Um, and then on the water, the best in a double, so two people, um, my category, you have to have two people in the boat was just right around four minutes. If you could do four minutes, then you had a shot at winning.

• 1:27:23Jocko Willink?

  And that's a thousand meters too?

• 1:27:24Rob Jones?

  It's a thousand meters. So you're always gonna be a little bit slower on the water.

• 1:27:27Jocko Willink?

  And you say it's four minutes, you said?

• 1:27:29Rob Jones?

  Yeah, about four minutes.

• 1:27:30Jocko Willink?

  So it's like a gut, complete gut check. It's, it's equivalent of sprinting like the mile.

• 1:27:36Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:37Jocko Willink?

  Cause you're going four minutes, right? Four minute mile.

• 1:27:39Rob Jones?

  I mean, it's, it's no joke. It's a, it's a tough, it's a tough, tough race.

• 1:27:44Jocko Willink?

  And where was the Paralympics that year?

• 1:27:46Rob Jones?

  Uh, the Paralympics were in London in two thousand twelve. And so I was just

• 1:27:54Rob Jones?

  getting ready for that. I was getting ready to retire. I need something to do too. And just so happened that my coach that at the time knew somebody else, knew this, this other coach that had a female that was, uh, looking for a partner, also a double above the NPT. And so my boat class is one guy, one girl. And so we met up, rode together, looked like we were a pretty good pair. And once I retired, moved down to Florida, started training for the Paralympics.

• 1:28:26Jocko Willink?

  How long did you have to train?

• 1:28:28Rob Jones?

  So I got out in

• 1:28:32Rob Jones?

  Late December, so let's say call it January 1st. And I, we had, the Paralympic final was September 2nd, or September 3rd.

• 1:28:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so you had a decent chunk of time to get ready.

• 1:28:47Rob Jones?

  Yeah, a good nine months.

• 1:28:49Jocko Willink?

  Of crushing yourself.

• 1:28:50Rob Jones?

  Of, yeah, training twice a day, every day, or twice a day, six days a week. Take off Sunday and just sprint, you know, technique, a lot of technique.

• 1:29:03Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:04Rob Jones?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:29:05Jocko Willink?

  Do you have to do the technique in the water?

• 1:29:07Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, you can do it outside of the water a little bit, but it's really, you gotta practice your technique in, in the water. I'm sure it's like jujitsu, you just gotta, it doesn't matter if you, if you're doing like a, in a fake, fake scenario. You have, it doesn't really have the same effect unless you're doing it in the real thing.

• 1:29:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so you get to England and boom.

• 1:29:30Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Jocko Willink?

  How many races is there in England? Is it just one race?

• 1:29:34Rob Jones?

  No, luckily. There's a couple of races, so we had to do win the trials race.

• 1:29:38Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:29:38Rob Jones?

  Which was to find out who represented America. We won that. Then we had to go qualify our boat for the Paralympics. And so we had to go to Serbia about a, maybe a month after winning the trials to qualify the boat. So we won that race, qualified our boat. And then Paralympics, you show up and you do your heat. And then if you win that heat.

• 1:30:04Jocko Willink?

  Is it, how many boats are in heat?

• 1:30:05Rob Jones?

  Uh, six.

• 1:30:06Jocko Willink?

  Dang, okay.

• 1:30:08Rob Jones?

  There were 12 boats total, six in each heat, two heats. So if you win that heat, you automatically go to the final. If you don't win that heat, you gotta go what's called the repassage.

• 1:30:17Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:18Rob Jones?

  Stands for second chance in French.

• 1:30:22Rob Jones?

  And, uh, you have to come first or second in that. So we won our repassage. We lost our heat to the Chinese, which still makes me so mad. And, uh, we won our repassage, so we were in the final. And we started the final and did last. And just slowly, over the course of the race, this was our race plan. We kinda wanted to start slow and build. Slowly, we just rode in one boat and the next boat and the next boat until we got to the end. And we're about.

• 1:31:00Rob Jones?

  Six inches between us and the Great British Boat, the home team. Everybody's cheering for the home team.

• 1:31:08Rob Jones?

  And so, third place gets a medal, fourth place, you don't get anything.

• 1:31:12Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:31:12Rob Jones?

  You get nothing, yeah. So, and we're doing our final sprint and then we cross the line and I don't know, I, I wasn't looking over there. My forearms were numb. I was just trying to hold on to the oars. And then it comes up on this little board, you know, first place, China, second place, France, and then there's just this long pause.

• 1:31:38Rob Jones?

  I'm just looking over there. Then it goes, third place, USA, and I'm like.

• 1:31:45Rob Jones?

  And you look at the video, it's literally like the length of one of these knives.

• 1:31:49Jocko Willink?

  No kidding.

• 1:31:50Rob Jones?

  Yeah, that close. Point two, point two seconds between them and us.

• 1:31:55Jocko Willink?

  That's crazy.

• 1:31:56Rob Jones?

  It was so close.

• 1:31:57Jocko Willink?

  So, did you meet anyone while you were on that event right there?

• 1:32:02Rob Jones?

  Well, yes, I did, actually.

• 1:32:04Jocko Willink?

  You were telling me you met someone over on that event.

• 1:32:06Rob Jones?

  Oh, well, um, so I'll tell you, when we were, first got there and we were training, we were doing, we would go out, we were probably there a good week beforehand, so we'd go out and train on the lake and continue our training, get used to the area. My partner, my, my rowing partner and I were watching the other teams. And then there's another boat class called the four, so it's four people. And I saw this Great British four row by. And there was this gorgeous blonde in the bow of the four. And I said, I just bit my lip.

• 1:32:51Rob Jones?

  I was like, that's a good looking chick. And, you know, I didn't, I never expected to meet her or anything because, you know, we're not racing against each other and she's from another team. And you kind of, you know, until the race is over, you gotta be.

• 1:33:03Jocko Willink?

  You're keeping it professional.

• 1:33:05Rob Jones?

  Sure. She, she. Even though she was super high. She was very high. But, you know, and she, she, uh,

• 1:33:15Rob Jones?

  she'll tell me, back when she told me what she saw me around, I was like, because I was, I was just in serious Marine Corps mode, just don't talk to anybody.

• 1:33:24Jocko Willink?

  You had business to take care of. Although she was pretty high.

• 1:33:29Rob Jones?

  And so, uh, racing's over. We're back in the athletes village. It's time to get after it.

• 1:33:36Jocko Willink?

  The other kind of getting after it.

• 1:33:38Rob Jones?

  There's a casino outside the athletes village, so, uh, the American contingent goes out to this casino, starts...

• 1:33:46Rob Jones?

  We're part- I'm still... At this point, I'm still kind of in like, serious mode. It takes a couple of days to get out of it, you know, serio- serious mode. Uh, still a little bit pissed that we lost. You know, to China and France. It's like, the two people... The two countries that my buddies are like, "Don't lose to China or France."

• 1:34:08Rob Jones?

  They were taking shots, like, every two fif- they were following on- at home and like, every two fifty, they would take a shot. They woke up like, so early in the morning.

• 1:34:19Rob Jones?

  So, we're out there, then the- the British team comes in, the four. They just won gold, right, and they're all... They're all happy, so... We're the only two groups that speak English.

• 1:34:29Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:34:30Rob Jones?

  So, uh...

• 1:34:30Jocko Willink?

  Bonus.

• 1:34:31Rob Jones?

  Yeah, exactly. So, our two groups, you know, kind of end up together. It took... It took them a while to, uh, get me to... Out of my shell, you know, 'cause I was like, you know, still kind of on my guard. I had- yeah, this was the first, maybe the second time I'd ever traveled outside of America for... Anything besides deployments.

• 1:34:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Rob Jones?

  I'd never traveled outside of America. Serbia was the first time. England was the second time. So, I was kind of still... On my guard.

• 1:34:58Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:34:59Rob Jones?

  A little bit. But, they started feeding me Fosters.

• 1:35:02Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:03Rob Jones?

  Lightened up. And then, just so happened, the... The gorgeous blonde I saw was there, so... Hey, you guys know how charming I am, so... Charmed her.

• 1:35:14Jocko Willink?

  Well, you at least fooled her.

• 1:35:17Rob Jones?

  So, I was sure- I'm sure the alcohol helped, you know, but, uh, charmed her, and now we're married, so...

• 1:35:23Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. That's awesome.

• 1:35:25Rob Jones?

  After four years of long-distance relationship, 'cause he kept rolling, she- she actually defended her, uh, gold medal in Rio.

• 1:35:30Jocko Willink?

  And did it again?

• 1:35:32Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:32Jocko Willink?

  Got gold again?

• 1:35:33Rob Jones?

  So, we do- we did about, uh... We didn't get together right away. We- we did, uh... Long distance for about three years. She living in England and I was living in America. But, uh, finally got her over here, we're married. Her name's Pam.

• 1:35:46Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 1:35:47Rob Jones?

  Pam.

• 1:35:48Jocko Willink?

  Well, obviously, I have a certain affinity for British ladies as well.

• 1:35:51Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:52Jocko Willink?

  It's pretty well-known. Uh, now you mentioned real quickly, you were training for triathlon in there somewhere too?

• 1:36:00Rob Jones?

  Yeah, so the people at the clinic, it was, uh, I mean, it was a team effort, everybody, so. There were other, other amputees in there and, I mean, we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Dan Knossen, the Navy SEAL, that was there for a year.

• 1:36:18Jocko Willink?

  Awesome guy.

• 1:36:19Rob Jones?

  Before me.

• 1:36:20Jocko Willink?

  And, and Paralympian as well.

• 1:36:22Rob Jones?

  Yeah, oh yeah, Paralympian in the biathlon, um, he was my, my idol, I guess, for when I first got there, cause he was pretty much done with therapy, he was about to get out, he was walking everywhere on his legs, carrying backpack around.

• 1:36:39Jocko Willink?

  And he was s- almost, I mean, the, the exact same injury as you? I mean, above the knee?

• 1:36:44Rob Jones?

  Just about, double above the knee, yeah. And, so I could see him from when I was just sitting in a wheelchair.

• 1:36:50Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:36:51Rob Jones?

  Like, alright, that is, it's possible.

• 1:36:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:54Rob Jones?

  Cause I'm seeing it with my own two eyes, it is possible. And so.

• 1:36:58Jocko Willink?

  And he's a stud.

• 1:36:59Rob Jones?

  And yeah, so if you wanna, if you wanna try and be like anybody, it's be like Dan, cause, um, and so that's kind of the, the environment that they had there at Walter Reed was, you could ask somebody that had been there before, tips, tricks, anything like that, and so, I saw Dan and I was asking him stuff and just watching how he did stuff. And then eventually he left and I kinda noticed, you know, I am now, there's new guys coming in and I'm now that person that has been there, and so I need to step into that role and offer advice and work harder than anybody else in the clinic and show people what's going on and show people what's possible. And so, the therapist would always be.

• 1:37:46Rob Jones?

  Hey, you want, who wants to run the Army ten miler? Who wants to do this triathlon? They'd always be getting offers, they'd all be getting slots in races because people love having wounded warriors out there. It's a, they make a big deal, but they get, let them go off first and everything. So,

• 1:38:03Rob Jones?

  yeah, so, and every time they'd ask me if I could, if I wasn't doing anything else that day, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And so, they're like, you want to do the Nations triathlon? It's Olympic distance triathlon. And there's like two people doing it. And no other, it's like a single below the NEPT doing it, and that's it. And you're a double above the NEPT, you want to do it? Yeah. I do. And it's just, because it just so happened at the time I was learning how to ride a bicycle again, normal bicycle.

• 1:38:33Jocko Willink?

  So you figure you're learning how to ride a bike, might as well do a triathlon.

• 1:38:35Rob Jones?

  Exactly. Hey, you gotta give, one of the things that's gonna drive you to push yourself is having skin in the game, having something to lose, having something to risk. So if you say to everybody in the clinic, I'm going to do the Nations triathlon, and you don't do it, you're an idiot.

• 1:38:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Rob Jones?

  You're a loser.

• 1:38:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. What do you, how long is a, is a Olympic triathlon?

• 1:39:00Rob Jones?

  Uh, Olympic distance, the swim is fifteen hundred meters. The bike is forty kilometers. And the run is ten kilometers.

• 1:39:12Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:39:13Rob Jones?

  Um, luckily for me, because I was not that good at swimming, luckily for me, the swim got canceled that year because there was a huge storm, there was a ton of debris in the Potomac.

• 1:39:22Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:23Rob Jones?

  So we didn't do the swim, but we did the bike and the run. And, yeah, so I was, I was relearning how to ride a bicycle. Nobody had ever done that before in the history of Walter Reed, double above the NEPT trying to ride a bicycle. And I had figured it out, and I kinda wanted to put it to use, you know, like, I finally figured this thing out. Um, and so, oh, what better way to do it than do the Nations triathlon? And so it was like, you know, a baptism by fire in, in a way. And so, it took me like four hours to do the whole thing.

• 1:39:59Jocko Willink?

  Did you enjoy it?

• 1:40:01Rob Jones?

  I enjoyed having done it.

• 1:40:03Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Cause I'm just wondering at what point you made the brilliant decision that you were gonna ride a freaking bicycle across the United States of America.

• 1:40:12Rob Jones?

  Well.

• 1:40:13Jocko Willink?

  Which was your next, wha- whatever freaking psychotic idea you got?

• 1:40:17Rob Jones?

  Again.

• 1:40:18Jocko Willink?

  Where'd that come from?

• 1:40:20Rob Jones?

  I had just learned how to ride the bike. And I'm going, like I do something with it. I can't make it just this pointless thing I learned. Okay, I did it now. Never gonna do it again. Like, you know, it might be fun. It's just like riding my bike across the country at some point in my life. And this is when I have, I'm not even, I'm still in the hospital. I just learned how to ride the bike. I should do something like ride, ride my bike across the country or something like that. You know, something, something cool like that. And I was rowing. I didn't do it right because I, I had, I had made the commitment to do the rowing.

• 1:40:53Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:40:54Rob Jones?

  So I was like, I'm gonna do rowing. But eventually I will do this cross-country bike ride. And so I did another year of rowing after that. I, I took the time to kind of plan it out, how I wanted to do it. And so I took another year of rowing and then finished world championships that year in fourth. Um, and about a month later, drove up to Maine, started riding.

• 1:41:20Rob Jones?

  This is in October.

• 1:41:21Jocko Willink?

  And, and so what was the, what was that all? Uh, what was the, what did that day-to-day look like?

• 1:41:28Rob Jones?

  Uh, so

• 1:41:31Rob Jones?

  I had a box truck, a U-Haul box truck I bought, like a used 200,000 miles U-Haul box truck.

• 1:41:37Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:41:38Rob Jones?

  My, I laid down some carpets in the back.

• 1:41:42Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:41:42Rob Jones?

  Um, had a couple of cots, a couple of sleeping bags, supplies. And my little brother, who was about to turn 18.

• 1:41:51Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:41:51Rob Jones?

  Uh, rogered up to drive.

• 1:41:53Jocko Willink?

  Good to go. That's all you need right there. Box truck.

• 1:41:56Rob Jones?

  Water.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  Two cots, carpet, and a little brother.

• 1:42:01Rob Jones?

  And so, you know, I didn't really train much. What I did was I made sure that my prosthetics fit correctly and I was able to ride the bike. That's all I really did. I didn't, you know, go out and ride 100 miles or anything, any kind of formal training for it.

• 1:42:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:17Rob Jones?

  Cause I figured, what is the point?

• 1:42:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:42:20Rob Jones?

  Just start and the beginning is the training for the finish. Yeah. So.

• 1:42:27Rob Jones?

  The day to day would be wake up, probably six, seven o'clock. You know, drive out to wherever I was starting for the day, cause you couldn't, you can't just like stop and then pull over. So we'd have to like drive the truck somewhere, park it in a church parking lot or a fire department parking lot. And then, uh.

• 1:42:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so you don't get apprehended by the cops.

• 1:42:52Rob Jones?

  So the first time, so I had, I was riding, I'd be riding my bike and then my brother would be kinda half on, half off the road. And I, I picked a route that we didn't have, you know, not super busy roads. So I wouldn't get in too many people's way until I got the Pacific Coast Highway and then people were super pissed. And, uh. At one point, this cop, the fir- the first cop I encountered, pulls over in front of us and like, alright, here we go. He's gonna tell me to stop, rides over. And then he gets out and he's like, I just wanna shake your hand, man. It's like, phew, okay, this is how it's gonna go. This is, so I'm gonna get, the cops love me. Um, and so I wake up, start riding probably around seven thirty, eight.

• 1:43:35Rob Jones?

  I might eat breakfast beforehand, um, probably ride.

• 1:43:41Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I would do thirty miles a day, so I'd just break that up however I felt for the day. Take breaks, hop in the back of the truck, sit around for a while. And run, I'd ride thirty miles and then wherever I finished thirty miles, I might go a little bit further for a better pulling off point. Stop, get in the truck, drive off to wherever we might be able to park the truck. And then spend the night in the truck and then, uh. Drive back out to that spot the next day, do it again. Luckily for me, a lot of hotels started to offer us nights to sleep. So we were really on this sleep in the truck for the first month. And then after that, we were mostly in hotels.

• 1:44:25Jocko Willink?

  And this was like a six month journey.

• 1:44:26Rob Jones?

  Six month, October to, October to April.

• 1:44:30Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so you did it through the winter time.

• 1:44:31Rob Jones?

  Yeah. You ever heard of the polar vortex?

• 1:44:33Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:35Rob Jones?

  No, no, what is that? It was polar vortex year.

• 1:44:37Jocko Willink?

  It was like this freezing, uh, temperatures that came down and, and like attacked the nation with cold.

• 1:44:45Rob Jones?

  They called it the polar vortex.

• 1:44:47Jocko Willink?

  It sounded very threatening.

• 1:44:48Rob Jones?

  It's one step, it's one step higher than a shark NATO.

• 1:44:54Jocko Willink?

  Uh. 5,180 miles in the wintertime, every day for 180 days.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  Talk about fortitude in your journal, and I'm gonna read it.

• 1:45:09Jocko Willink?

  "It was through, it was through the true purpose of the Marine Corps that I became what I am today." And it is that, it is that, and that is the act of fighting the battles of the United States.

• 1:45:24Jocko Willink?

  "It is through the preparation for and the fighting of America's wars that Marines gain their fine edge and an idea of the true meaning of courage, spirit, tenacity, altruism, and brotherhood." "After having been imbued with the essential qualities ascribed to Marines in boot camp, it is up to the individual Marine and his leadership, all the way from the fire team leader to the commandant, to make him the ideal tool for the Corps.

• 1:45:55Jocko Willink?

  And there's no better place than a war to do this."

• 1:45:59Jocko Willink?

  "It was during my two deployments that I learned what it means to be courageous. Almost on a daily basis, my fellow Marines and I would be subjected to situations with high potential for danger and situations with infinite unknowable possible outcomes.

• 1:46:16Jocko Willink?

  The dangerous and unpredictable nature of these conditions elicits fear, nervousness, and uncertainty in all people. However, without fail, when the time came to strap on our gear and proceed forth into these conditions, we did it with no hesitation because it was what we needed to do."

• 1:46:39Jocko Willink?

  "To me, that is courage. I learned it from the example set by my leaders and my compatriots, and when it was my turn, I endeavored to teach others by my own example."

• 1:46:55Jocko Willink?

  My favorite among the many mantras of the Marine Corps is "Adapt and Overcome."

• 1:47:02Jocko Willink?

  It is my favorite because it embodies the spirit and tenacity that Marines must possess in order to be the world's greatest warfighting force. To Marines, accomplishment of their mission is of the utmost importance, above that of their own lives, and the ability to adapt and overcome is key.

• 1:47:24Jocko Willink?

  The idea is straightforward: Change whatever you need to in order to become what is required to transcend an obstacle. If there is no bridge over a river, a Marine will swim. If there is a wall in front of us, we will blow it apart. If there is an enemy on a hill that we want, we will remove him.

• 1:47:50Jocko Willink?

  Marines do not stop until they have accomplished their mission, regardless of any monkey wrench that gets thrown into their plan.

• 1:47:58Jocko Willink?

  They will change their plan a thousand times if it need be until what needs to be done is done.

• 1:48:07Jocko Willink?

  And then they will move on to the next mission. It was these two qualities that allowed me to keep fighting after I was wounded. My plan of accomplishing something with my life and making my life as good as possible was met with obstacles and monkey wrenches. But since I had already learned these lessons, bypassing these obstacles and moving on was easy and natural.

• 1:48:37Jocko Willink?

  The brotherhood that the Marines share is the defining feature that initially attracted me to the Marine Corps. And over the course of two deployments, I experienced it to its fullness.

• 1:48:49Jocko Willink?

  The reason that I was able to be courageous and adapt and overcome was because of the men that stood beside me doing the same thing.

• 1:48:57Jocko Willink?

  And it is because we were experiencing war and hardship together that we grew close enough that I cared for them more than I cared for myself. And would sacrifice my safety for their well-being even if it meant being extinguished.

• 1:49:17Jocko Willink?

  And although it never needed to be said,

• 1:49:21Jocko Willink?

  I knew this was reciprocated.

• 1:49:25Jocko Willink?

  To me, this is the definition of brotherhood and selflessness. And from my having been part of such a relationship is why I am loyal and put others before myself as if it were a default setting.

• 1:49:46Jocko Willink?

  Without the Marine Corps, I have no idea where I would be or what I would be like. All I can say for sure is that I am what I am now, due in large part to what I was taught and what I experienced during my five years in the Marine Corps.

• 1:50:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, awesome.

• 1:50:17Rob Jones?

  If there's anything that the Marine Corps teaches you, it is brotherhood. It is

• 1:50:27Rob Jones?

  endurance, how to endure

• 1:50:32Rob Jones?

  situations you don't want to have to be in.

• 1:50:37Rob Jones?

  Whether it's humping around with a pack or fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq, or if it's sitting in the back of a seven ton getting drenched in rain and then having to set up a tent, blah, blah, blah. It teaches you those things and so

• 1:50:54Rob Jones?

  I already knew all this stuff. I was good at it by the time I became an amputee. And then I got even better at it. Once I was an amputee, even more experience. And then so that led into being able to endure whatever I had to for the bike ride. And I think the slogan, slogan for the wounded warrior regiment in the Marine Corps is, I don't know if this is, it's Latin, I don't know if it's, I'm pronouncing it right, it's Etiam in Pugna, which is still in the fight.

• 1:51:27Rob Jones?

  And, you know, I'm not still in the main fight that's going on in Iraq, Afghanistan. I've been taken out of that fight. But the overall fight.

• 1:51:44Rob Jones?

  I'm still in that. I'm still a representative of America. I'm still a representative of Marines. I'm dedicating myself to help my brothers that are struggling or come back wounded. I'm still in that portion of the fight. And I mean, just remember, you just have to remember that that slogan, just stay, stay in the fight, just keep fighting.

• 1:52:13Jocko Willink?

  Or obviously you're staying in the fight and I, I, you, again, reading through your journal stuff um, is awesome. And there's a bunch of different things that I wanted to pull out and obviously I can't read the whole damn thing.

• 1:52:28Rob Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:28Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I could, but I'll leave that for you. Uh, but one of the things, you know, I'm always thinking that what, you know, what can I pull out that I think will be really helpful to other people? And I thought that this thing that you wrote right here was just something that can be used by, by anybody, especially people that are facing tough situations, which as you just mentioned, you are pretty dang good at dealing with tough situations. And I think this gives a little insight into that. So here we go. Back to your journal. The Kubler-Ross model explains the stages by which an individual grieves for a lost intimate.

• 1:53:10Jocko Willink?

  The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. In this case, it could be said, I was grieving for myself. The former me that had died in Sangin.

• 1:53:25Jocko Willink?

  Since I had a natural understanding of conservation of energy and an awareness of the time required to reach my goal, I instinctively skipped the first four steps and proceeded the acceptance portion of the process. I had decided that to spend my limited energy resources on denial, anger, bargaining, and depression would be a pointless waste and would be better left off of my itinerary. I wanted to be able to expend as much energy as I could toward my goal, which would not only allow me to reach it faster, but would improve the quality of my success.

• 1:54:05Jocko Willink?

  The sooner I had accepted my situation, the sooner I could get to where I wanted to be.

• 1:54:13Jocko Willink?

  Having one's legs amputated above the knee is categorically a negative experience. If I hadn't had the right mindset afterward, the rest of my life could have also become a negative experience. Fortunately, I was able to react to the loss by accepting the negative energy from that occurrence and using it to open doors for myself in order to be sure that my life would remain a positive experience. No matter who you are, whether you are healthy or ill, injured or able-bodied, everyone's main purpose in life is to make it as good as possible.

• 1:54:58Jocko Willink?

  This is an unchanging objective for all people, no matter what happens. Thus, now that I was a double above the knee amputee, I needed to figure out a way to keep my life enjoyable. With this in mind, I researched the Paralympics to see if I could participate, which led to a bronze medal at the 2012 Games. Not only that, I accepted people into my life who have enriched it beyond what I could have imagined. From the experiences associated with sports, I have learned lessons that have and will continue to make me a better person. Lessons that I can pass on to others in the future.

• 1:55:39Jocko Willink?

  It was in this way that I was able to transform the negative experience of having lost the lower part of my legs into the positive experience and energy of participating in a sport and all that has accompanied it. If you are ill or injured, use it as a way to discover a new hobby or career. If someone is rude to you and makes you angry, use the anger to fuel a workout. If someone you know has a terminal illness, use it as an opportunity to make a difference in their life and in the world. The most important part of transforming energy from negative to positive is being aware

• 1:56:24Jocko Willink?

  of opportunities as they are presented and having the courage to seize them.

• 1:56:31Jocko Willink?

  Energy is all around us, constantly fueling and transforming. It will affect us in ways we cannot be, we cannot predict. Be a person that uses energy intelligently, instead of wasting it.

• 1:56:53Rob Jones?

  I like to say, use the weight. And I kind of analogize it, I like to lift weights, I'm sure you guys can probably tell.

• 1:57:04Rob Jones?

  I like to analogize it with maybe like a strict press. So, the weight on the bar is whatever, girlfriend broke up with you, whatever.

• 1:57:15Rob Jones?

  Possible issue you're having. And you can hold that bar on your shoulders, and you can just leave it there, and eventually, start to hurt. And then eventually, if you leave it there long enough, you'll just be on the ground with that weight on your chest, you can't move anymore. Or, when you have that weight on the bar, and it's on your shoulders, you shoulder press it.

• 1:57:41Rob Jones?

  And then you do it again, and you do it again, and again, and then you let your body adapt. And next time you try and lift that weight, it's nothing. You can do that weight easily, I can handle that, no problem. And then you can handle even more weight. And then when you get good at that, you seek out the weight. You purposefully try and make things harder for yourself. So that you can just become even stronger, and even stronger. And you embrace that, and you start to enjoy it a little bit.

• 1:58:17Rob Jones?

  And so, I mean, I think that's what I was trying to say there.

• 1:58:21Jocko Willink?

  I think you said it, not only did you say it, but uh, you actually are living that currently, at this time, seeking out more.

• 1:58:33Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I guess maybe I would even go so far as to say stupid things to do. Cause you're, so the next challenge that you put in front of yourself is the thing that you're about to do right now. And I've never heard of a challenge like this before, but you're gonna do a month of marathons.

• 1:58:52Rob Jones?

  Yeah, um, so these things are only stupid or crazy if I fail.

• 1:58:59Rob Jones?

  Bike ride's not crazy because I did it. If I, if I had failed, then people could say it's crazy. So I've failed this one, then it's stupid. Um.

• 1:59:07Jocko Willink?

  No, man. I'll tell you what, you, you going out there and making these things happen, you know, it's, it's awesome. Whether you finish or not, or no matter what you do, the fact that you're putting these hardcore challenges in front of yourself is, it's, it's unbelievable. Yeah.

• 1:59:23Rob Jones?

  So yeah, all this stuff that I've written down, what we've talked about, all the wisdom I've been able to, to gain through my injury and through being in the Marine Corps. I think this, the month of marathons I'm about to do, and everything else that I, that I try and do, I'm trying to be an example. Cause there's so many people out, when, when I was trying to learn to ride out of the bike again. I didn't know anybody that had ever done it before, until I saw somebody that had done it. And it just made everything. Once you realize it's possible, it makes it so much easier. Cause you know it's, it can be done. And so.

• 2:00:07Rob Jones?

  I want to be an example for people to look at, and they see me and they say, well. They might not be trying to run 31 marathons in 31 days in 31 different cities, or ride their bike across the country.

• 2:00:21Rob Jones?

  But they can say.

• 2:00:24Rob Jones?

  There's a double above knee amputee that ran 31 marathons in 31 days. I could probably go walk on the treadmill.

• 2:00:35Rob Jones?

  So, and if, I just wanna be an example of that and I wanna be an example of all of these lessons that I've learned, a person that uses the weight instead of lets it destroy their life, somebody that stays in the fight, keeps fighting no matter what. That's what I'm trying to do. I wanna serve to show people what they can do and especially, you know, wounded veterans and people that might be struggling with what they saw. And, you know, I'm lucky enough that my mind is clear. I had a grade three concussion, that's it. No traumatic brain injury, no post-traumatic stress, nothing like that.

• 2:01:16Rob Jones?

  And so I want to show civilians and veterans alike that it is possible to have a traumatic experience and come through and be fine. And not have, not have to suffer from post-traumatic stress that just overwhelms you. Um, cuz I think in society these days, it's almost becoming expected that you're gonna go to war and you're gonna come back. And so a lot of people might end up just being, well, I'm supposed to have post-traumatic stress, so I'm gonna just manifest it in myself, or they let it get worse, or they don't, they don't fight it, they just let it happen.

• 2:02:00Rob Jones?

  And so I wanna be an example of somebody that uses their experience and it's just goes and has this terrible experience and, you know, don't make a big deal about it.

• 2:02:15Jocko Willink?

  And part of you doing that is running thirty-one freaking marathons in thirty-one days.

• 2:02:21Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:22Jocko Willink?

  So, when do you start?

• 2:02:24Rob Jones?

  Uh, so I'm gonna start.

• 2:02:26Jocko Willink?

  In thirty-one different cities?

• 2:02:27Rob Jones?

  In thirty-one different cities. So my first city, London. Um, London on October 12th. And then I'm going to fly to Philadelphia. So basically the way it's gonna work, I'll run in a city. Probably take about the whole thing, I'll take breaks during the, during the run, so probably the whole thing will probably take five and a half, six hours to, to do.

• 2:02:52Rob Jones?

  I'll, I'll do the run on my own, just like in a park or on a trail, out in backs, loops. I'll do it on a 400 meter track if I have to.

• 2:03:04Rob Jones?

  Do that. Get in my RV, drive to the next place, spend the night there.

• 2:03:10Jocko Willink?

  We upgraded from a box truck?

• 2:03:12Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:12Jocko Willink?

  With the, with the cots in the back?

• 2:03:14Rob Jones?

  Well, the wife's gonna be coming along, so.

• 2:03:16Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah. She wasn't gonna be in the box truck.

• 2:03:18Rob Jones?

  No, I'm gonna have a crew for this one. I got my wife Pam is gonna be my team leader. She's, she's just doing so much stuff. She's a team leader in everything, every job that you could possibly think of, she's doing it. And my mom is coming because she's a massage therapist, so she's gonna.

• 2:03:34Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 2:03:35Rob Jones?

  Give me massages and I'm gonna have a driver, not my brother this time. I think I blew him out.

• 2:03:40Rob Jones?

  I blew him out the first time. Uh, but I'm gonna have a driver. And so we're gonna all hop in the RV, drive to, so from Philadelphia to New York. Run in New York. Repeat until I go all the way around. I'm gonna end November 11th Veterans Day, DC. On the National Mall.

• 2:03:59Jocko Willink?

  And, and your goal obviously is to show people and lead people and set an amazing example. And on top of that, you're gonna earn, you're gonna, you're gonna earn money for some real specific charities that, that you believe in and stand behind. And what are those charities?

• 2:04:18Rob Jones?

  Yeah, so my goal, my main goal is obviously the, to be the example on all these kind of grand uh, objectives. But you know, how do you really, you can't quantify that really. So the way that I'm quantifying it is I'm going to be raising money for three veterans charities that I've had personal contact with that have helped me during my recovery. Um, and they are the Semper Fi Fund, the Tunnel to Towers Foundation, and the Coalition to Salute America's Heroes. And so that's how I'm going to be, that's also I'm gonna be showing veterans that.

• 2:04:58Rob Jones?

  America loves them. Cause that is something that's been made abundantly clear to me. Everywhere I go, like all the time. I think I did three breakfasts in a row where somebody paid for it anonymously. I get thanked all the time. And so if they're saying that stuff to me, it's obvious that they love all veterans. And I'm trying to help connect that, reduce that gap between the military and the civilian worlds and get them to, to talk and, and show the, show veterans that they're coming back to a country that appreciates them and loves them more than pretty much any other thing.

• 2:05:40Rob Jones?

  And so I think by the donations and by having people come out and run with me and show me support, then that kind of helps us to prove that to people.

• 2:05:51Jocko Willink?

  So where can we go donate? What's the, what's the link?

• 2:05:56Rob Jones?

  robjonesjourney.com

• 2:05:58Jocko Willink?

  robjonesjourney.com

• 2:06:00Rob Jones?

  There's a, there's a donate link there and you can also see my schedule there and I'll have details of where I'm gonna be.

• 2:06:09Jocko Willink?

  And it's the whole country. It's east coast, west coast, middle of the country.

• 2:06:12Rob Jones?

  All the way around.

• 2:06:13Jocko Willink?

  Far as you can drive in a day to get to a next spot to run 26.2 miles.

• 2:06:17Rob Jones?

  Like my longest drive is 12, 14 hours and that happens maybe once or twice. So it's, they're all pretty close to each other in major cities. And yeah, you can go to my website, robjonesjourney.com, donate there, see my schedule, RSVP that you're gonna show up. You don't have to, but if you want to, that's cool. I'll have all the details there. And then social medias, all at robjonesjourney.

• 2:06:43Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. I,

• 2:06:47Jocko Willink?

  it's awesome, man. It's just awesome. And you're freaking awesome. And I grabbed a couple, this a little short piece from your journal. Again, this is something that I just thought is, is just gonna be helpful to me when I read it and will be helpful to anybody that, that listens, hears, or reads this. And here we go, back to your journal.

• 2:07:11Jocko Willink?

  The conscious is in control of forming habits.

• 2:07:18Jocko Willink?

  Every time we are faced with a decision of whether to quit, slow down and rationalize a reason why that's okay, or keep pressing forward, one of those habits is strengthened. The more times we choose to push on, the stronger that habit will become.

• 2:07:43Jocko Willink?

  It takes time and purposeful effort for these habits to become ingrained, but once a person develops them in the gym, doing something as simple as choosing to keep rowing hard for another minute,

• 2:07:58Jocko Willink?

  they can apply what they have learned to the rest of their lives.

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  They will learn to take the harder path so that they are challenged more. They will learn to put extra effort into daily tasks.

• 2:08:16Jocko Willink?

  Who you are depends entirely on your influences and the level of effort that is put into forging yourself into what you desire to be.

• 2:08:39Jocko Willink?

  And that's awesome.

• 2:08:41Rob Jones?

  Yeah, every, every decision you make either gets you closer to your goal or moves you further away. And I'm not saying I never make the decisions that move you to the left, move you further away. I'm human, just like everybody else.

• 2:08:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, uh, yeah, definitely.

• 2:08:59Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:59Jocko Willink?

  You know, you know, we were hanging out yesterday and I was like, I was busy. I'm like, hey, man, I gotta go. So in that busyness, you know what I had for dinner last night?

• 2:09:08Rob Jones?

  MREs.

• 2:09:09Jocko Willink?

  No, I didn't have MREs. That's not happening.

• 2:09:11Rob Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:09:11Jocko Willink?

  No, my entire dinner was a leftover piece of a Caesar salad.

• 2:09:17Jocko Willink?

  And a giant mint chocolate chip milkshake.

• 2:09:23Jocko Willink?

  I, I actually said, my wife was like, make me, cause I was working and I, you know, it's, you can't stop and eat when you're trying to work. And so I just said, can you make me just a giant mint chocolate chip milkshake? Now I didn't get closer to my, you know, physical goals, but I got a lot of work done. I got an extra, whatever, 28 minutes worth of work done, cause I didn't stop to eat dinner.

• 2:09:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta take the wins with the losses. I dig it.

• 2:09:48Rob Jones?

  And it's all just about, you know, making that.

• 2:09:53Rob Jones?

  It's like, you plot your progress on a graph. And you're gonna have.

• 2:10:00Rob Jones?

  It's, as long, it's gonna go up and then it's gonna go down a little bit, then it's gonna go up and it's gonna go down. So as long as that trend is upward. Then, you know, you really have nothing to worry about, but if that thing starts to level off and then it go the other way. Then you need to ask yourself some questions and you need to give yourself some honest answers.

• 2:10:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, we had a conversation not too long ago. A guy asked about jujitsu belts. And said, you know. I understand that you shouldn't, cause in jujitsu, it's like, hey, you shouldn't just like go to get a belt. Uh, you go, cause you wanna get better and you wanna learn and, and. He said, you know, I understand that you shouldn't just do it to get the belts, but. It's good to mark your progress and figure your progress out. And I was. And that's true. And that, that's what you're saying. Like, yeah. And I, I've talked about that too. Um, you know, I, I related to shooting where.

• 2:10:50Rob Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:51Jocko Willink?

  When you, when you focus on the target. Your, your vision gets blurry. And so you lose track of the long-term, the long-term goal or the long-range target. So that's why we focus on our front sight. Cause we can keep that little thing that's right in front, three feet in front of us. On our rifle, you can keep that in focus. So that's what you focus on. And every once in a while. If you start that, maybe that gets a little blurry. Well, then you look at your long-term targeting because that daily grind will beat you down too.

• 2:11:17Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:17Jocko Willink?

  And if you just, if the daily grind, the daily grind, the daily grind beating you down, and then you, you, you forget what your goal was in the first place. But, so every once in a while, yeah, you gotta look up your long-term goal and say, I want to be doing this, or achieve that, or whatever. I want to do 31 marathons. See, oh, some people would have picked like February, right? We'll do 28 marathons in 28 days. You're, you're going for the full 31. Uh, that's the difference right there.

• 2:11:46Rob Jones?

  Yeah, if I want to make, if I want to make these points, that's why I rode my bike from Maine to Southern California. I was sitting there going,

• 2:11:56Rob Jones?

  yeah, I could, I could ride Florida to San Diego. It would be, technically be all the way across.

• 2:12:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:03Rob Jones?

  But,

• 2:12:03Jocko Willink?

  Technically.

• 2:12:04Rob Jones?

  But, there'd be that but. And I don't want any buts associated with anything that I do. I don't want anybody to have any reason to say, oh yeah, Rob Jones, he ran 31 marathons in 31 days. But, he could have done 32.

• 2:12:19Jocko Willink?

  You gotta do a good job on, on your social media when you're, when you go out on this thing. You gotta document this thing and post it so people can like.

• 2:12:26Rob Jones?

  I'm hoping, so, I'm working with, um, Sports Illustrated. I think they're gonna do a video.

• 2:12:33Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 2:12:33Rob Jones?

  I heard of them. Um, yeah. Good outfit. Do they do good videos? Yeah, probably, yeah.

• 2:12:40Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's, that's a discriminating judge of videos right there.

• 2:12:45Rob Jones?

  So, yeah, I plan, and like, you know, I documented the, uh, bike ride. That's, that documentary's on my website too.

• 2:12:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:51Rob Jones?

  So, yeah, I do try and document these things and, uh, just in case people don't happen to catch it while I'm doing it, they can go back and, and use that as their example for, for what I've done. They can find out that way.

• 2:13:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, um, I know you get stuff done and you hammer out your daily tasks. We're gonna let Echo hammer out his daily task right now.

• 2:13:15Speaker 02

  Technically weekly. Support your time.

• 2:13:16Jocko Willink?

  Weekly task, weekly task.

• 2:13:18Speaker 02

  I do, I extra respect on the weightlifting analogy. Oh, thank you. I think like weightlifting and exercising in general like is like the perfect analogy for most things, you know? Oh, yeah. Cause it's like, yeah, I mean, I could go into it, but yeah.

• 2:13:32Jocko Willink?

  That is, that is an outstanding analogy.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:37Jocko Willink?

  Of like, hey, that weight's on you.

• 2:13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:39Jocko Willink?

  You're either gonna use it to get better, or you're gonna let it bury you in the ground.

• 2:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:43Jocko Willink?

  The choice is yours. What are you gonna do?

• 2:13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like, and it goes to show, we talk about this sometimes where you can take, let's say, a random person, right? And you'd be like, hey, let's go to the gym. And there can be literally opposite reactions if you get two different people. So, one guy can be like, hell, yeah, let's go to the gym. Yeah. I'm gonna work out and get strong. I need to get in shape. Good, you know, it's this thing. Or you can get someone and be like, that's the worst thing in the world. I don't wanna go to the gym. I don't, that like, that's hard and it hurts. Even the next day it hurts, you know? So meanwhile, it's the same exact activity, by the way. Yeah. So you can look at it in those two different ways.

• 2:14:20Jocko Willink?

  You know what else is messed up? Is there's activities that are also good for you? And move you in a direction that you wanna be moving? But maybe, like, let's say the guy, you can, we can, I'll give you a real good example. You take a meathead, right? And you go, okay, you wanna go to the gym? What does the meathead say? Hell's yes, let's go get it. But then you say to that same guy, who seems all motivated and fired up to improve himself.

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:51Jocko Willink?

  And you say, hey, let's go read a book and try and, you know, understand better this concept of whatever.

• 2:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:02Jocko Willink?

  And what do they say then?

• 2:15:03Speaker 02

  Eh, I'd rather go to the gym.

• 2:15:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So it's interesting.

• 2:15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:06Jocko Willink?

  The weight, the weight isn't necessarily.

• 2:15:10Jocko Willink?

  Just a physical weight.

• 2:15:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:15:12Jocko Willink?

  It's pressing up against whatever it is that's gonna improve you.

• 2:15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:16Jocko Willink?

  And you can either use it to beat you down. Or you can use it to make yourself better.

• 2:15:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and again, just as a concept, right? I think the exercise and weightlifting and like your body just kinda figuratively can demonstrate just so much. You know, that applies so much.

• 2:15:32Jocko Willink?

  And you especially feel that way about curls? Is that what I'm hearing?

• 2:15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Depends on the thing, but yeah. Generally speaking. Anyway. Speaking of curls.

• 2:15:46Speaker 02

  Wait, should I go into this now?

• 2:15:48Jocko Willink?

  Your daily task?

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:50Jocko Willink?

  Your weekly task?

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  Weekly task.

• 2:15:51Jocko Willink?

  I think you should.

• 2:15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, might as well, right? Well, I got Rob Jones here to listen. So what up?

• 2:15:56Rob Jones?

  I can't wait to hear the support.

• 2:15:57Jocko Willink?

  The support.

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:59Jocko Willink?

  Live, you get to witness the support live.

• 2:16:02Rob Jones?

  It's an honor to watch Echo do his work. His life's work.

• 2:16:06Jocko Willink?

  His life's work, right here, support you, boja.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  After this, we can go to my house and you can watch me edit a video. So dope, you know? Anyway.

• 2:16:17Speaker 02

  Made in America. Origin. That's the company. OriginMaine.com. You started in Maine?

• 2:16:25Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:25Speaker 02

  By credit or sin?

• 2:16:26Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:26Speaker 02

  That's where this place is. We just got back, what, last week?

• 2:16:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:29Speaker 02

  Ish, week and a half, whatever. Yeah, that's a cool spot. You know, he has a, um, side note, he has like this, I think it's on like the History Channel or something like that. Where it was kinda like a show and you know, the story he told about getting, he got this, the loom, right? Where he got.

• 2:16:43Jocko Willink?

  It didn't actually make.

• 2:16:44Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 2:16:45Jocko Willink?

  They like came and filmed some stuff, but they didn't produce it.

• 2:16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he showed it to me, but it was great, cuz when he's telling the story, I'm like, man, that took, it took like eight hours? Or something, or more than that.

• 2:16:54Jocko Willink?

  It took more than that.

• 2:16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, like to get it. And it's this big thing and it kinda showed it. They were there for that.

• 2:16:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's awesome. Moving the looms.

• 2:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know what a loom is?

• 2:17:03Rob Jones?

  No.

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  Okay, and me neither, and this is, he asked me, he said, you know what a loom is? I was like, loom, I've heard that like once.

• 2:17:09Rob Jones?

  Sounds familiar.

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  Fruit of the loom, right?

• 2:17:12Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  And when you think about it, it makes sense, because fruit of the loom is like.

• 2:17:16Rob Jones?

  Right, it's the big.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  Fabric, you know?

• 2:17:18Rob Jones?

  It has all the strings, right?

• 2:17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it makes fabric. Anyway, so, when they say made in America, in this case, it's for real made in America. They get the cotton from America. They make it with a loom.

• 2:17:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. With looms, with looms that, uh, this guy Pete Roberts up at Origin, which we're in league now with Origin.

• 2:17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:35Jocko Willink?

  But we went up into old mills, cause all the mills up there, a lot of them shut down.

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:41Jocko Willink?

  And actually, I think all of them shut down. And these were, these were, these were factories that were like half a million square feet. And they were filled with looms and filled with production and filled with American workers. And it all went overseas. And he went in and literally bought a loom, um, for like, I think that, I think it was like three thousand dollars. The, the, the cost of the scrap metal that it was worth.

• 2:18:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:10Jocko Willink?

  And anyways, took it, hired some old timers that knew, still knew how to work it, brought them back to work and then started making clothes. And well, making jujitsu gis is what he started with, but, but we're, you know, got everything being lined up to get made, so.

• 2:18:24Speaker 02

  And that loom, they only had that one because they were gonna put it in a museum or something.

• 2:18:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they were literally gonna take that, that one loom that they had left and they were gonna put, make it a museum piece.

• 2:18:34Speaker 02

  Historical product.

• 2:18:35Rob Jones?

  You know, that's, that's so awesome because you see, there's so many people out there now that are like, oh, our country has so many problems. Our country has so many problems. We need to do this. We need to do that. And, or they say, somebody needs to do this. Somebody needs to do that.

• 2:18:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:50Rob Jones?

  And it's like, hey, why don't you? And here's a guy that's doing that. So that's awesome to hear.

• 2:18:55Speaker 02

  Guess what? Boom.

• 2:18:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he, it's interesting too, when we went there, you can tell he's into it. He's like, he, we're driving up there. He's talking about how yarn is all made and stuff. And he's like, hey, I gotta, I gotta calm down, cause I'm, I'm getting too into it.

• 2:19:09Jocko Willink?

  The thing is, you don't even, you don't even need to say he's into it. Cause he went out and bought a broken rusty loom and refurbished it and moved it into a factory that he built on his own property. It's ridiculous.

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it shows too, like the gis, um, like you might do jujitsu right today.

• 2:19:24Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  The gee's are like, they're cool, you know martial arts gee's or whatever, but he brings like this added like element to it.

• 2:19:31Jocko Willink?

  Well, cause he specifically designs them for.

• 2:19:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:34Jocko Willink?

  For jiu jitsu.

• 2:19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not the kind where it's like, hey, let me get a gee blank from overseas or whatever and then like embroider my logo on it. So it's kinda like the same thing. You don't, you don't have much innovation freedom with a physical product. He does though. So it's like, I took out his robe the other day. Gee, whatever. I take off the top and you're left with just the pants. So the pants are like, they're by um, like sizes, you know, you wear thirty six. Yeah. In regular stuff is just the like numbers, A one, A two, A three, A four, A five, six. This is like fitted to you, right? So I'm wearing the pants and they feel it kinda like normal pants, you know? And I was Greg in one. They're like, they were noticing.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  You always don't mind getting choked out by Aqua Charles.

• 2:20:19Jocko Willink?

  This gee is so sweet.

• 2:20:20Speaker 02

  There's a thing, my streak every day and I wear it every day. I have two tops. I wear it every day and the streak is still like, every single time, someone asks like, what up with that gee? I'm like, oh, let me, let me see that. They're dope.

• 2:20:32Jocko Willink?

  The way that fabric is woven is legit.

• 2:20:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:35Jocko Willink?

  It's legit.

• 2:20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And see these shorts I have on right now? I should, I kinda in a way shouldn't mention these, cause be second now, we're not making those shorts, cause they don't make these shorts.

• 2:20:43Jocko Willink?

  We will make them.

• 2:20:44Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I've worn these three days in a row, by the way. Oh, nice.

• 2:20:46Jocko Willink?

  That's what that smell was.

• 2:20:48Speaker 02

  Whatever, I washed them once. But yeah, they're my favorite shorts. They're made out of the same material as one of the, one of the gee's. Yeah, they look nice. Yeah. I spilled some eggs on it. You know how it leaves them, these shorts are black, by the way. So you know how you, when you spill eggs or I don't know, I was feeding my son yogurt and stuff and it's spilt on it.

• 2:21:05Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 2:21:06Speaker 02

  So you just take a brush, like, you know, like a brush you find under your sink or whatever, put some water in it, scrubbed it. You can't do that on like your shorts, cause it'll start to wear it out, you know?

• 2:21:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:15Speaker 02

  But a gee is tough. It's supposed to be tough. Yeah. Boom, did it. Didn't have to wash it. Anyway, sorry, can't get the shorts. Don't get too fired up.

• 2:21:23Jocko Willink?

  We'll make them. We'll make them.

• 2:21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So stand by for that. Nonetheless, jiu jitsu gee's, all kinds of rash guards and even like, like regular clothes, shirts, hoodies and whatnot, the joggers. I keep putting on the joggers and walking around in front of my wife. She likes it.

• 2:21:39Jocko Willink?

  That was a weird thing, cause I didn't actually know what, do you know what joggers are?

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  Well, they're new joggers. You know, they're like, they're.

• 2:21:46Jocko Willink?

  They're like sweatpants. They're like sweatpants, but they're somehow more high end.

• 2:21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. The shape is different. They kind of taper down your leg like, you know. Like skinny jeans.

• 2:21:57Jocko Willink?

  They're like skinny jeans with sweatpants.

• 2:22:00Speaker 02

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't endorse that product.

• 2:22:03Jocko Willink?

  I didn't.

• 2:22:03Speaker 02

  Neither did I. Neither did I, but I put them on and I was like, I was like, these, I don't know how I look because they didn't have a mirror in the cabin.

• 2:22:13Speaker 02

  Except in the bathroom, but nonetheless, um, so I couldn't see how they looked. They look kind of strange from up here, but I don't know. So I was like, whatever, they're origin, they're dope.

• 2:22:22Jocko Willink?

  He wore the origin jogger pants and the matching origin sweatshirt or hoodie. And he went, he rolled out like that, like it was, like it was the deal.

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  It was the deal.

• 2:22:32Jocko Willink?

  And then he looked, he was a straight up leisure suit is what he was rolling in.

• 2:22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:35Jocko Willink?

  He was not playing around.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  And then when I, when I came in, I thought people would be like, oh, you know, you don't match in that because I'm not used to wearing, but Pete said I, that I looked good in it. And then my wife said I looked good in it.

• 2:22:48Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that one I'll give you credit for.

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:50Jocko Willink?

  Because I'm not giving you credit. Pete made it. Of course he'd be like, oh yeah, you look great.

• 2:22:54Speaker 02

  No, but it was a moment of honesty because he mentioned either you, I don't, I think it was you or someone. He was like, I don't think Jocko could pull it off.

• 2:23:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he's right.

• 2:23:03Speaker 02

  Something like that. No, it might've been someone else. I don't think he was talking about you.

• 2:23:05Jocko Willink?

  He's right. Either way.

• 2:23:07Speaker 02

  Jocko doesn't want to pull it off.

• 2:23:09Jocko Willink?

  Pulling off.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 2:23:11Jocko Willink?

  Clothes designed for girls.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  What I did notice?

• 2:23:13Jocko Willink?

  No, no, not happening.

• 2:23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, maybe I'm not secure in my man head. No, I just don't wear girls clothes.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  Apparently not. Nonetheless, functionally, that is what I noticed right when I put them on though. Like when you roll out, you know how like if you have, and not that it's even a big deal, even me talking about it.

• 2:23:31Jocko Willink?

  A lot of times Echo says things like, you know how it is when like something happens, but actually not.

• 2:23:37Speaker 02

  You know how it is when you're wearing skinny jeans.

• 2:23:39Jocko Willink?

  Like I actually have, a lot of times I have no idea what he's talking about, but I roll with it because we're trying to condense the timeline of the support's speak, speaking, which is hard.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  In the spirit of accuracy, I'm going to go down this hole. You know, when you wear, have you ever worn sweatpants ever in your life?

• 2:23:55Jocko Willink?

  Not really.

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  Any kind of sweatpants. Okay, Rob Jones. I have worn sweat, pre-injury I have. Yeah. So consider this, when you, let's say like, I don't know, you're running or walking or whatever, like the sweatpants are loose, they flow. It's not a big deal. I dig it. I understand. But the skinny jeans, sweatpants, joggers. We shouldn't even say skinny jeans.

• 2:24:14Jocko Willink?

  You need to get this off my podcast now.

• 2:24:17Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 2:24:17Jocko Willink?

  You're ejected.

• 2:24:18Speaker 02

  They function because they don't flap around. They're like, i- if you're running with them, they work.

• 2:24:24Rob Jones?

  I just run in shorts.

• 2:24:26Speaker 02

  Right, for that very reason.

• 2:24:28Rob Jones?

  I don't care if it's three feet of snow, I just run in shorts.

• 2:24:31Speaker 02

  Nonetheless.

• 2:24:32Jocko Willink?

  You're pretty good to go.

• 2:24:33Speaker 02

  Don't knock it till you try it. Also, Jocko has some supplements. I don't know if you knew this, Rob Jones, but, Super Krill. Available now?

• 2:24:43Jocko Willink?

  Available.

• 2:24:43Speaker 02

  Boom, originmaine.com.

• 2:24:46Jocko Willink?

  Originmaine.com.

• 2:24:47Speaker 02

  Labs, it says labs on the top of the uh uh. Menu, what do you call it, the top menu on the website, labs.

• 2:24:56Speaker 02

  Super Krill, joint warfare.

• 2:24:57Jocko Willink?

  Yes, that's a big one. I mean, we know krill is like the base.

• 2:25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:02Jocko Willink?

  The joint warfare.

• 2:25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:04Jocko Willink?

  So good.

• 2:25:04Speaker 02

  And the significance, well, layers, if you will, I think, you know, maybe that's a stretch with layers, but this is the, the stuff that you've been taking from.

• 2:25:12Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:25:13Speaker 02

  Jump, as they say.

• 2:25:15Jocko Willink?

  With some bonus.

• 2:25:17Speaker 02

  Bonus stuff.

• 2:25:17Jocko Willink?

  Bonus stuff that I now can take in one shot.

• 2:25:21Speaker 02

  So like, when you're, even before this podcast and stuff, you're like taking glucosamine and krill oil and all this stuff, and you're like, you know, what would make this even better? It's like, you know, the, the, those little, uh, elements or whatever. And one day, you know, I'm gonna make my own, and boom, it happened.

• 2:25:36Jocko Willink?

  It happened.

• 2:25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're in it. Uh, joint warfare, that's a good one. Uh, Super Krill, this krill, it has an added thing, right, in the krill, Super Krill? Krill oil and.

• 2:25:46Jocko Willink?

  It's Super Krill.

• 2:25:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's it.

• 2:25:49Jocko Willink?

  Super Krill.

• 2:25:50Speaker 02

  Dope krill, okay.

• 2:25:51Jocko Willink?

  What else are you gonna add? It's already super.

• 2:25:55Speaker 02

  Duper?

• 2:25:56Jocko Willink?

  We could add duper. That'll be Super Duper Krill. Coming up, see, now he's gonna take the market from us. Rob Jones, Super Duper Krill Oil.

• 2:26:04Rob Jones?

  Just patented it.

• 2:26:07Speaker 02

  Well, he does make things happen.

• 2:26:08Rob Jones?

  I just got the website and the Twitter handle.

• 2:26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, the domain. It's true. Uh, but yeah, so basically everything you need for the joint situation, you're covered. And then, what about that pre-workout, pre-mission?

• 2:26:21Jocko Willink?

  Pre-mission?

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  Pre-mission.

• 2:26:22Jocko Willink?

  It's coming.

• 2:26:22Speaker 02

  Pre-workout.

• 2:26:23Jocko Willink?

  It's coming, not available yet. Pre-mission will be coming.

• 2:26:27Speaker 02

  Soon, we're not gonna talk about that one, we'll talk about it later.

• 2:26:30Jocko Willink?

  We are, it is, it is in the testing phase and has been being tested.

• 2:26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:35Jocko Willink?

  And legit.

• 2:26:38Speaker 02

  Alright, so far so good, boom.

• 2:26:40Jocko Willink?

  I'm kind of addicted to it.

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  Yep, also on it dot com slash Jaco, okay, so I get all my kettlebells from Onnit. I got into kettlebells after this podcast kinda started and you know, Onnit has awesome stuff. Specifically the kettlebells because they're the designer ones, you've seen that guy before, right? So, I get the whole set, well, I don't have the whole set technically, I have the weights that I think I'm gonna be able to use. What's your heaviest one you have at home?

• 2:27:09Jocko Willink?

  Uh, forty kilograms.

• 2:27:12Speaker 02

  So what is that, eighty?

• 2:27:14Jocko Willink?

  Eighty-eight.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  Eighty-eight pounds, that's cool, man, cool story, I got the ninety-pound one, so whatever. So basically, all eighty-eight pounds that you have, I have that plus more, so no big deal.

• 2:27:26Jocko Willink?

  Stand by, I'll order more.

• 2:27:28Speaker 02

  Alright, there you go, good, and...

• 2:27:30Rob Jones?

  But you wear skinny jeans.

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  Ah, joggers, contemporary joggers from time to time.

• 2:27:36Rob Jones?

  That subtracts at least four pounds for your max kettlebell.

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  It adds it, functionally, it adds it, by the way, got the gorilla ones a few weeks ago. Um, the ninety-pound one is the Bigfoot, just for informational purpose.

• 2:27:52Rob Jones?

  Are they ever gonna make a hundred-pound Jocko head?

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  Actually, they said that, right, people have been saying that.

• 2:27:57Jocko Willink?

  There's been some requests, I don't know if anyone would actually want that.

• 2:28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw, I saw, a guy sent me a two, it was a two-hundred-fifty, two-hundred-something-pound kettlebell.

• 2:28:09Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 2:28:10Speaker 02

  I don't even know what, I mean, yeah, I guess, right, goals.

• 2:28:14Jocko Willink?

  That's legit, there's like, you know how some people are just mutant strong?

• 2:28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:18Jocko Willink?

  One of my team guy buddies, just mutant strong, and he trained jiu-jitsu, great dude, but he got...

• 2:28:25Jocko Willink?

  The Beast. I don't know who makes it, but there's a kettlebell called The Beast. I think it's like a hundred and two pounds or something.

• 2:28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:28:31Jocko Willink?

  But there was like this little test taming the beast. And he got the kettlebell, out of the box, did the test, passed it. I was like, I mean, things that I couldn't do at all.

• 2:28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:42Jocko Willink?

  I was like, okay.

• 2:28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:43Jocko Willink?

  Um, you're legit.

• 2:28:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Kettlebells are crazy. Actually, it's cool. That's like one of those exercises that you, if you learn the form, it's like an added element because you gotta learn the form.

• 2:28:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:56Speaker 02

  Then the strength.

• 2:28:57Jocko Willink?

  And learning the form is good for you because you're developing, you're developing, uh, neuro.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  Right, muscular connections.

• 2:29:06Jocko Willink?

  Yes, boom, thank you.

• 2:29:08Speaker 02

  Amen, you know?

• 2:29:08Jocko Willink?

  I was lost for words and you've had me. Cover and move.

• 2:29:11Speaker 02

  No problem, I got you. But yeah, so you need, it's basically you have to learn to balance something that's not balanced.

• 2:29:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:18Speaker 02

  It's good. Like that bag I lifted in Maine. Those guys had me lift. It's good. Two hundred pounds, by the way.

• 2:29:24Jocko Willink?

  Wow.

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  No worries. Anyway, it's super hard. I failed the first time. Also, they got what? Jump ropes, maces, you know, if your workout gets boring, Jaco doesn't have that problem. We know, we know, because you just are here to win and all this stuff. But some people, they get bored, you know, with a workout. You get all this cool stuff. Anyway. Uh, on it dot com slash Jaco. It's a good one. Also,

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  when you buy these, actually, I'm gonna put a link to your journal, if you don't mind.

• 2:29:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:50Speaker 02

  On the website.

• 2:29:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing to buy. It's free.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:54Speaker 02

  But if, you know, you go on there, I'll put in the book section and.

• 2:29:58Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that'd be awesome.

• 2:29:59Speaker 02

  If, yeah, man, it's good. And if you, if people wanna get some of the other books that Jaco, uh, talks about, you go to our website, JacoPodcast.com. Books from podcasts, that's on the top menu, and then you click through there to get your books. Takes you to Amazon. Boom, click through there. Or if you do any other shopping, boom, click through. That's a good way to support. Small action, big reaction.

• 2:30:23Jocko Willink?

  It is a legit way to support.

• 2:30:25Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:30:25Jocko Willink?

  It is. I got asked that two times now.

• 2:30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:28Jocko Willink?

  Once in Maine.

• 2:30:31Jocko Willink?

  And I think I was at an event the other day. Uh, and someone asked me, does it really help? And I was like, yes, it helps.

• 2:30:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:39Jocko Willink?

  It's it. I said, it's exactly what Echo says it is.

• 2:30:42Speaker 02

  Yep. Small action. It takes what? Like three extra seconds?

• 2:30:46Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:47Speaker 02

  Small action. Boom. One, two clicks, whatever. And, uh, you know, big support, big reaction. Also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. I know it seems kinda obvious, right? iTunes subscribe, but if you haven't, subscribe.

• 2:30:59Jocko Willink?

  Or Stitcher or Google Play.

• 2:31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, anything that provides platforms. Just subscribe, man. Good way to support. Easy, you know? Boom. Also YouTube channel. We have YouTube channel. I put, what was the last video I put on there?

• 2:31:13Speaker 02

  The book video.

• 2:31:14Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:31:15Speaker 02

  Discipline equals freedom. Field manual. Video.

• 2:31:19Rob Jones?

  Awesome job on that, by the way.

• 2:31:20Speaker 02

  We both thank you.

• 2:31:21Rob Jones?

  Pretty good video.

• 2:31:22Jocko Willink?

  I like that video. I thought it was pretty good, too.

• 2:31:24Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:24Speaker 02

  I felt Jocko did all the work, really. Lifting. That was a hard night too. I mean, you were lifting after like a whole day. I was like, bro.

• 2:31:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was. That's right. That was like a long day. That was a long day.

• 2:31:35Speaker 02

  You know, he's the kind where I'm like, okay, I just need like these shots, you know, cause we're doing it for like other stuff and I'm gonna grab the steals and whatever. And I was like, I just need the shots. What I'll do is I'll make it here so you don't have to put on all that weight. And he's like, no, I'll feel like a pussy if I don't put the weights. I was like, bro, you're the man.

• 2:31:51Rob Jones?

  I did the same exact thing. I was just shooting a video, doing lifting weights and they're like, yeah, we're just gonna do it with no weight. I'm like, no, but the video that I want, the weight that I want to be on there is a hundred and thirty-five pounds. I want that to be on video. I don't want no weight to be on video.

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, he even went one further is that there was a few shots that I was getting that didn't show how much weight. It just showed the front of, you know, it's like at an angle, you could kinda see part of the weight, kinda thing. He's like, no. It's like he wouldn't allow him.

• 2:32:18Jocko Willink?

  Well, I actually said, you know, I, I took the Rob Jones approach. I was like, okay, I gotta move some weight around. I'm gonna use the opportunity to make myself better. I had a legit workout. I was getting after it, you know?

• 2:32:28Rob Jones?

  He's a method actor. That's what method actors do.

• 2:32:31Speaker 02

  Exactly, right? Yeah. Hey, worked out for him and I dig it. But yeah, so last back to YouTube. Boom. We put some videos on there. Including but not limited to the video version of this podcast. Also additional videos, excerpts, you know, and various other videos. Deleted scenes, if you will. A lot of times we talk rubbish before we actually include, you know, or we don't include in the podcast. So sometimes we'll cut that up and put it on there to add it. Entertainment, you know, here Jocko swear a lot. You know, he doesn't swear that much on, on, on the record, but you know, he gets after it from time to time.

• 2:33:09Jocko Willink?

  Only, only if I'm hanging out with like one of my bros.

• 2:33:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, teasing them.

• 2:33:15Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:16Speaker 02

  You don't effing just effing get nuts with effing squats in your effing thing. He was like, yeah, he like overdid it. Nonetheless, yeah, YouTube, that's a good one. Um, also Jocko has a store, if you didn't already know. Guess what it's called?

• 2:33:33Rob Jones?

  I'm gonna go on a limb and say Jocko Store.

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  Jocko Store. It's at jockostore.com. We've got some t-shirts on there. They're cool. They're cool, little, you know, some layers on those t-shirts. Layers, meaning not physical layers, uh, what do you call it? Poetic layers.

• 2:33:47Jocko Willink?

  Poetic now.

• 2:33:48Speaker 02

  Poetic.

• 2:33:48Jocko Willink?

  That's really reaching.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's reaching a lot.

• 2:33:51Rob Jones?

  I think good is pretty poetic.

• 2:33:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's real, real.

• 2:33:55Rob Jones?

  Is that a sonnet or?

• 2:33:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, real poetic.

• 2:33:57Speaker 02

  Limerick.

• 2:33:57Jocko Willink?

  I wrote that one myself.

• 2:33:59Speaker 02

  You know what the layers are with that though, right? If you look at the good shirt, it has Jocko's head. It has good, right? But the good is backwards. And here's the thing, that's why when people try to counterfeit that one, they don't, they don't get the layers. They just see Jocko's, oh, that's a marketing thing or whatever.

• 2:34:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:14Speaker 02

  And let's sell that, but they don't get it. They don't know the layers. So the good is backwards and it's backwards for a reason.

• 2:34:19Rob Jones?

  So they can read it?

• 2:34:20Speaker 02

  In the mirror. Cause who are you saying that? When you hear that, who are you saying that to? You're not saying, you know, to your poor daughter who's crying because she skinned her knee. You don't say good. She's like, oh, she cries more. That's not her, it's not your message to give somebody else. Your message to give to yourself.

• 2:34:35Jocko Willink?

  Why are you letting your daughter cry in the first place?

• 2:34:36Speaker 02

  Well, she's, you know, sensitive. I'm cultivating her sensitive side, that's all.

• 2:34:42Rob Jones?

  You're not wearing a t-shirt for yourself to look down like that. Wearing it so other people can read it. You can read it.

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  In a typical case, but not these t-shirts. That t-shirt is for you. Straight up for you with the message with Jocko's face. Apparently that's for you too. Not for everybody, but this is for you. Nonetheless, that's just an example of the layers.

• 2:35:04Speaker 02

  On the shirts. JacoStor.com, there's also some hoodies on there, some travel mugs, bumper stickers. The Jocko 2016, I took it off.

• 2:35:13Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, we lost that election.

• 2:35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, you did, sorry.

• 2:35:15Jocko Willink?

  I probably got like 27 votes.

• 2:35:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:17Jocko Willink?

  I got some legit votes, people posted them on Twitter. Some people wrote me in, straight up, they wrote me in.

• 2:35:23Speaker 02

  I did.

• 2:35:24Jocko Willink?

  And said, you know what? I don't want Hillary Clinton, I don't want Donald Trump. I want Jocko.

• 2:35:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:31Jocko Willink?

  I think it might have been a good choice, actually.

• 2:35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe.

• 2:35:33Jocko Willink?

  I think, I think it might have been a good choice.

• 2:35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, someone actually told me that I should run for vice president. That wouldn't have been a good choice.

• 2:35:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, uh, I don't know if you would have got my vote.

• 2:35:44Speaker 02

  Nah, I don't know, I wouldn't have got my vote either.

• 2:35:48Speaker 02

  Nonetheless, there's some cool stuff on Jocko Store, that's the point. Um, you know, I'm not saying go buy some stuff, I'm saying go on there. See what up, see what's on there, and if you like something, get something, good way to support. Also, there's a little thing called Psychological Warfare, you ever heard it?

• 2:36:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I think I have.

• 2:36:06Speaker 02

  It's pretty dope.

• 2:36:07Jocko Willink?

  I have it.

• 2:36:07Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what, oh dang, okay, so I don't have to let you know that, it's an album. With tracks. Jocko tracks, so basically, if you don't already know, Rob Jones knows, Jocko knows, I know, obviously.

• 2:36:21Speaker 02

  Let's say you're on your campaign against weakness, that's, that's the official going term, campaign against weakness, right? And I'm gonna be disciplined in all these areas of my life, waking up early, diet, I'm gonna work out, you know, however many times a day.

• 2:36:37Jocko Willink?

  Study, read. Get smarter, work harder.

• 2:36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:41Jocko Willink?

  Just normal stuff.

• 2:36:42Speaker 02

  Normal, getting after it.

• 2:36:43Jocko Willink?

  Yep, campaign.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  Campaign, yeah. And you have a moment of weakness like Jocko with the mint chocolate chip ice cream. Avoid that, Jocko obviously didn't listen to his own album with tracks, Jocko tracks, of Psychological Warfare, what you do is, anytime you, you come across these moments of weakness, listen, put a track, put a track in. Like if you're having a hard time waking up, you wanna hit the snooze or whatever, boom, get, wake up, get up, wake up.

• 2:37:10Jocko Willink?

  Wake up.

• 2:37:11Speaker 02

  Wake up and get after it, that's the track name, help you right through that weakness. Smash the weakness half, actually. But yeah, Psychological Warfare, Jocko Willink.

• 2:37:19Jocko Willink?

  MP3, iTunes.

• 2:37:21Speaker 02

  Wherever MP3s are being distributed, that's where you can get them.

• 2:37:27Jocko Willink?

  You can also on Amazon, you can get something called Jocko White Tea. Rob Jones had his first Jocko White Tea today.

• 2:37:34Rob Jones?

  Delicious.

• 2:37:35Jocko Willink?

  Not only delicious, but I've noticed you've been very attentive. Your words are crisp and clear. I mean, you feel the power, right?

• 2:37:44Rob Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:45Jocko Willink?

  Look at him.

• 2:37:46Rob Jones?

  It totally increased.

• 2:37:47Jocko Willink?

  Look at him.

• 2:37:49Jocko Willink?

  He's ready to rock and roll.

• 2:37:50Rob Jones?

  My tenacity.

• 2:37:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:51Rob Jones?

  My, uh, mental capacity increased at least tenfold.

• 2:37:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:55Rob Jones?

  If not more.

• 2:37:56Jocko Willink?

  So, so there you go. Jocko White Tea, you can get that on Amazon. It, legit though. How good does it taste?

• 2:38:02Rob Jones?

  Oh, it's really good.

• 2:38:03Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's, and it doesn't, it's, it doesn't really taste like tea. Right? It like kinda tastes like tea.

• 2:38:10Rob Jones?

  Does it have any sugar in it?

• 2:38:11Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:38:12Rob Jones?

  You're telling me Jocko White Tea doesn't have any sugar and tastes that good?

• 2:38:15Jocko Willink?

  And it tastes that good. What does it taste like?

• 2:38:18Rob Jones?

  Incredible.

• 2:38:18Jocko Willink?

  It tastes like victory. Uh, hey, we got some books on Amazon and wherever you wanna buy books. Extreme Ownership Combat Lesson, Combat Leadership Lessons Learned, and how you can apply those to business and life. Way of the Warrior Kid.

• 2:38:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Way of the Warrior Kid. That's what you need to get for every kid you know. It is so helpful for kids. I wish I had that book when I was nine years old, 10 years old, 11 years old. It's so helpful and I'm getting such great feedback. So, buy that for the kids you know, for sure.

• 2:38:58Jocko Willink?

  Coming up soon.

• 2:39:00Jocko Willink?

  The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.

• 2:39:05Jocko Willink?

  That's right, it is a field manual. How to Implement and Execute Operation Discipline Into Your Life. Follow the field manual. You can get it from your local bookstore. You can get it from Barnes and Noble. You can get it from Amazon. Let them all know what's up.

• 2:39:27Jocko Willink?

  Also Echelon Front Leadership Consulting for your business or team. That's what we do. You can email us at [email protected]. And in the meantime, if you need us, or you just want to check in, we are rolling kinda deep on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and a feishibo hockey. Rob Jones is @robjonesjourney. @robjonesjourney.

• 2:40:07Jocko Willink?

  He's gonna be documenting all this awesome slash, could be stupid, but could be mostly awesome stuff that he's doing. And we like to watch people do crazy stuff, so we're gonna watch you do that.

• 2:40:21Rob Jones?

  And I'll post a picture, and usually I like to put a little snippet of wisdom in there. It's a little paragraph for people to read, start their day, instead of the New York Times.

• 2:40:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, don't do that. Just go straight to the Rob Jones snippet of wisdom.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  I like the example, how you say you want to be the example. Because some people, they say, "I just want to be the example," but they don't explain it. You just explained it actually in a way that was kinda revealing to me where it makes sense. You know, you're like, "Hey, I'm gonna..." And this goes for everything, by the way. Like, if you want to... I do like a special effect sometimes. And I'm like, "Man, I want to do this, but man, that's like some high-end effect. I can't do it on this." And then, but then, let's say I look it up on YouTube, and be like, "Oh, wait, look, he did it right here." And then, you know, sometimes they show them how, show how sometimes they don't. But, like how you said, like, if you don't think, like, if you think, "Oh, yeah, that kinda can't be done." You know, like, for someone in my position, or whatever, you know? But then you see someone, "Oh, wait, he's doing it." And then you're doing it where it's like, you're doing even more.

• 2:41:17Speaker 02

  So it's like, "Ah, you're kinda reaching more people in that way." Because still, if you're doing these crazy things, maybe one, maybe two other people be like, "Yeah, I can do that, too." But most people, they'll be like, "I can't do that crazy stuff. But I can do all this other stuff." You know what I mean? Other stuff that they didn't think they could do before.

• 2:41:32Jocko Willink?

  That's the word, man. That's the word, it's crazy. Not stupid. The stuff you're doing is awesome. It's crazy. You gotta be crazy to do it.

• 2:41:40Jocko Willink?

  So yeah, Rob Jones Journey, and that includes robjonesjourney.com as well. Which in that, from there, you can get to the donation page for when you're starting all this, all this, uh, 31 marathons in 31 days. Most people run a marathon, and I think I've read it takes like 6 months to actually recover from a marathon.

• 2:42:06Rob Jones?

  Yeah, I guess it depends on your level of preparedness, but uh, I'm trying to do it in about 6 hours.

• 2:42:14Jocko Willink?

  That is awesome. Echo is at EchoCharles, and I am at Jocko Willink. Echo, you got anything else for today?

• 2:42:22Speaker 02

  Thank you for coming on, Rob Jones.

• 2:42:25Jocko Willink?

  Rob, any closing thoughts from you?

• 2:42:28Rob Jones?

  Oh, I just want to start by pointing out that I think every guest you've ever had on this podcast is somebody that I consider to be a hero. I don't, I don't throw that around, they're patriots and they are heroes. And it is humbling for me to be included. For you to have me on the podcast is vastly humbling for me to be included among the people that you deem worthy of being on the podcast. So I just want to thank both of you for, for having me and giving me this opportunity, and I just hope that some of the stuff that I said can resonate with, with some of the, some of the listeners.

• 2:43:11Rob Jones?

  And beyond that, I've done a lot of stuff, but nobody does that by themselves. I have had so many people that have helped me. Therapists, prosthets, coaches, mentors, and family, friends, and then especially Pam. I mean, I told you before, she's doing everything. She was instrumental in getting this podcast done, getting me on as, as a guest here. Took it upon herself to, to tweet you.

• 2:43:49Rob Jones?

  She's calling press, she's helping me get venues, she's, it's been incredible. And she's my number one supporter. And, you know. Too good for me, but hopefully she doesn't listen to that. Hopefully she'll continue to be deluded. Um. But yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm at the top of the pyramid. Like I get all the, kind of the notoriety and the congratulations for doing the stuff that I've done, but. Without the base of the pyramid, the pyramid is shit. It's a block on the ground. So. Without all these people. I mean, I wouldn't have accomplished it. I would, I might have tried, but.

• 2:44:31Rob Jones?

  I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be where I am, probably wouldn't be on the podcast, I wouldn't have actually done anything.

• 2:44:37Jocko Willink?

  Well. Um. You know, for everyone that's come on and, and to sit here and have you. You know, that to have you and the people that have come on this podcast and have you sitting across the table from me and be able to spend time with you yesterday and hang out with you. I am rewarded a thousandfold, a thousandfold. From you to me, that's, that's where the reward comes. And it's an honor, a thousandfold for you to be here and, and be sitting here talking to me and I thank you. For coming on. I thank you for your service, I thank you. For your sacrifice.

• 2:45:21Jocko Willink?

  I thank you for the example that you're setting. Which is awesome and, and showing everyone what it really means to. To persevere. And to not only. Not only overcome challenges, but you are embracing. Those challenges and turning the harshest of challenges into something positive and something good.

• 2:45:56Jocko Willink?

  And that is what I'm thanking you for, for explaining what it really means to adapt and overcome no matter what we face. And to everyone out there that's listening,

• 2:46:12Jocko Willink?

  and you're going through hard times, or you're facing a rough patch, or a challenge, or an obstacle in your life, adapt to it, grow from it, overcome it, transcend it,

• 2:46:31Jocko Willink?

  and use the weight of that challenge to make you stronger.

• 2:46:43Jocko Willink?

  And until next time, this is Rob Jones, and Echo, and Jocko, out.