Chris Stapleton

Chris Stapleton (Traveller, Higher, Starting Over) is a multiple Grammy award winning singer, songwriter, and guitarist. Chris joins the Armchair Expert to discuss why he looks for silence, his unpreparedness for the academics at Vanderbilt University, and wanting to make a record his father would like after his passing. Chris and Dax talk about the formative folks that gave him a shot as a young, no-name songwriter, following the motto that ‘terms are better than money,’ and the potential blindspots that can exist when you’re very competent in one thing. Chris explains why there’s no such thing as a country music emergency, his preference for something being right over being done, and the safety he feels in the space of a song. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by the miniaturist mouse in America.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Hi, it's me.

• 0:09Dax Shepard?

  Ding ding day. We've been working on this one for a while.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we've been begging and working and it happened.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Hustling.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, down in Nashville, too, right where it should happen.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:20Dax Shepard?

  We were in the barn in Nashville and we have Chris Stapleton today. Chris Stapleton is a Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter and guitarist. His albums are Traveler, From a Room, Starting Over Higher. He's got his tour right now, the All American Roadshow. And you can get tickets for that at www.christapleton.com/tour. He also has his own show on Sirius, which you should check out.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Check it out.

• 0:49Dax Shepard?

  And lastly, you should drink some of his Traveler whiskey, which he was reticent to promote, which he should because it's a magical whiskey.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  It makes no, maybe he was reticent because you're sober, but.

• 1:01Dax Shepard?

  No, he's just a guy with so much integrity, he doesn't want to self promote.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Oh, well, he definitely should have and he should have brought us some because I wanted it.

• 1:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's from the Brewmasters, you don't call them Brewmasters in whiskey. You call them some other masters.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15Dax Shepard?

  Hot man, I don't know what the hell, Whiskey Masters from Pappy's.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Big deal.

• 1:20Dax Shepard?

  Big deal. So drink his whiskey, listen to his music, go see him on tour and listen to him on Sirius. Please enjoy Chris Stapleton. We get support from Quince.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 1:39Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a T-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  $60, $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories. They skip the middlemen and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 2:20Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 2:30Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 2:48Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop, cold water every morning before anything else.

• 3:37Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 3:55Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 4:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 4:50Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I know. And thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really

• 5:11Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 5:22Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And with their happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models. So no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 5:49Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Is it lost?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, where did I fucking put that down? What you looking for?

• 6:24Dax Shepard?

  My notes for you.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  You don't have it memorized?

• 6:29Dax Shepard?

  You're born April 15, 1978.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  That's pretty good.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  That's really good.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  It's better than I could do.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're gonna test you at the end.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  I don't even know when I'm born.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Your home birthday. Did you have a nice holiday?

• 6:40Speaker 02

  I did.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  I'm from Georgia, so I was just at my family's house. It was easy.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Duluth, right?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, Duluth. Oh my God. Done your homework.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  No, you just said it on one. I did. I did listen to a few things. I didn't do that much homework. I don't like to go into things doing too much homework sometimes. I like to see what happens.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  You got them?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  I think it would have been fun if you couldn't find him and we just went.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  I know. Well, that's basically what the interview will be. Those are just a safety net. Where were they?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  On the counter inside.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I didn't even bring them out.

• 7:12Dax Shepard?

  I got to start by saying last summer, we got to interview a couple of people here. Jason Aldean and Luke Combs.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:19Dax Shepard?

  I gotta catch my breath.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 7:21Dax Shepard?

  I ran.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  You ran?

• 7:23Dax Shepard?

  My bad calf.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Oh, no. He did sprints yesterday, so now he broke his body.

• 7:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  I told him not to do that.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  My body's just broken every day.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Oh, it's like after the age 35, you shouldn't be sprinting anymore.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  I don't know. That's true.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I think it's really true.

• 7:39Dax Shepard?

  I think that's clinically accurate. I think that's medically true. Yeah. So we had both Jason and Luke, and both of them independently went on these crazy tirades about you.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Hot tirades.

• 7:49Dax Shepard?

  The degree of, well, nobody can sing like Chris. That's just that. And his songwriting just, you know, he's on another level that no one can really touch. And both these guys, the way they gushed about you.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  And they're very different people too. That was a through line.

• 8:02Dax Shepard?

  Then I just went like, oh, this is cool. I have loved your music, but it's very interesting to hear people on the inside talk about it. I found that very intriguing.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Well, I appreciate kind words.

• 8:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's not my world. You know, if you were hanging out with a bunch of actors and they were like, you know, the best actor is is Bolton Goggins.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  We were just talking about.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  You were?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Because I listened to some of that episode that you guys just did with him.

• 8:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  And the goggles and the whole thing.

• 8:28Dax Shepard?

  Goggins goggles.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  The alliteration.

• 8:31Dax Shepard?

  Do you listen to podcasts?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Not really. People ask me what I listen to a lot and I look for silence a lot. And that's kind of a weird thing to say. And I've said that before in other interviews, but I do like silence because I am looking for something outside of, something to come down through the antenna, you know, like.

• 8:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Silence is where you'll kind of receive some kind of song.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Or just a thought about what I need to do today. Doesn't have to be grand.

• 8:58Dax Shepard?

  And with five kids.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Silence is golden in that.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Hard to come by.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  But also, it can be disconcerting when you're so used to that much chaos.

• 9:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a little scary.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just like, oh, what do I do with this?

• 9:10Dax Shepard?

  Also, if you have five kids and you hear silence, this is a pretty good indication something's going really wrong.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you go check on people at that point.

• 9:19Dax Shepard?

  So you're from Staffordsville, Kentucky?

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 9:22Dax Shepard?

  How big of a town is that?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  I don't know that there's actually like a population. It's more of a suburb of of Paceville, Kentucky. And I don't even know what that population is. It's small.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  Like in the 5,000, 10,000 range?

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, somewhere in there. I wouldn't know what the actual population is today.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  For the fact check.

• 9:37Dax Shepard?

  And dad was an engineer in the coal mines? Is that accurate?

• 9:41Speaker 02

  He was a coal miner, yes. And he had an engineering degree. He was an electrical engineer by degree.

• 9:46Dax Shepard?

  But what did he physically do at work?

• 9:48Speaker 02

  He was an independent operator, underground mining.

• 9:51Dax Shepard?

  Was he operating machinery?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  He kind of ran it. It was his deal that he kind of started small business kind of person. But he did all the things.

• 9:59Dax Shepard?

  Did he like own a mine?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:02Dax Shepard?

  How does one go about owning a mine? Use my property and start digging for coal?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Never really got into it. But you acquire mineral rights from different landholders and you carry your pistol with you a lot.

• 10:11Dax Shepard?

  And did he do well?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  No, that's an industry dominated by large energy companies. And please, large energy companies don't come after me for saying these things, but they control markets. They'll lose money on purpose to put other people out of business to buy up their rights. And it's very volatile. There's the opportunity to make money in that business as a small operator. But my dad, at some points in my life, had to go to Cincinnati to work. The business got so bad, there was no more. He shut down.

• 10:35Dax Shepard?

  What would he do when he went to Cincinnati?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  He worked for a company called Pirelli.

• 10:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, tires?

• 10:39Speaker 02

  They have a cabling side. He worked for the industrial cable side.

• 10:42Dax Shepard?

  Because it's coated in the rubber that Pirelli makes or something?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 10:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a weird.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  It was weird.

• 10:48Dax Shepard?

  And then mom worked for the health department?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Sure, for the health department, yeah.

• 10:52Dax Shepard?

  What kind of guy was dad?

• 10:53Speaker 02

  A hardworking guy. He left before the sun was up and came home after the sun was down.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Could you feel his stress?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Felt very safe and maybe secure.

• 11:02Dax Shepard?

  That feels rare.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  He was a fair man, but a hard man. Stern, very black and white about things that he

• 11:08Dax Shepard?

  believed in?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and unyielding to a fault.

• 11:11Dax Shepard?

  How much older is Herbert than you, your brother?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  My brother Herb is three years older than me.

• 11:16Dax Shepard?

  I'm five years younger, brother. And I'm a total little brother.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Well, I was until my sister's 12 years younger than me. So I was the little brother for That amount of time and then I had to adjust.

• 11:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm six years older than my little sister.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  But that doesn't count.

• 11:30Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't count?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Why does it not count?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Cause he has little brother energy and that's because the older brother, I'm not counting Carly, his little sister in the mix.

• 11:40Dax Shepard?

  You're not, because that's a very middle childy syndrome.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Well, that's true.

• 11:45Dax Shepard?

  But she'll be using little brother as a pejorative and I'll be using it as a positive. Cause I think you get a lot of skills as a little brother and I'm wondering if you relate.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  What skills do you believe that you get as a little brother?

• 11:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'll hit you with them.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  And I'll tell you if I have them.

• 11:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:59Dax Shepard?

  And I also think it's definitely like what your personality type is. So this wouldn't be the same for all little brothers, but I see it with my kids for sure. We were both pretty alpha-y. We knew what we wanted, each of us independently, but he's five years older. So he was stronger and cooler and I was constantly trying to be older. The worst thing I could be as a baby, I wanted to get along with his friends. The skill it kind of gave me is I've been able to be around pretty alpha dudes that I might normally butt heads with, but I know the role very well. Like I know the role of still advocating for myself, but knowing what position to keep

• 12:39Dax Shepard?

  myself in a little bit. And I'm mostly curious for you if that showed itself when you started writing with these musicians who are in essence, big brothers. They have the status, they have the power. You got to obviously be able to work with them.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  I had an experience with a writer early on where I came in the room and the first thing he said to me, he was an established writer and he goes, man, you must have a pretty big ego. I didn't know what that meant.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  I was like, why do you think that? He's like, well, you just think you can walk in here and write songs with those of Ben and Doos. I was like, I don't look at it that way, but let's write a song and we'll find out. I never felt less than or unequal to those tasks and I'll sit in a room with anybody and write a song. To your point of the little brothers, I did hang out with my brother's friends, but we also played sports together. I played sports with them. My brother is not as tall as I am. He was a free safety and I was linebacker. We weren't necessarily competitive with each other, but we were, but he was very protective. He just retired from the FBI.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Cool.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  So that carried into his career. He's a protector. We didn't butt heads in that way where I was trying to show him up.

• 13:41Dax Shepard?

  I don't know that I was trying to show my brother up as much as I just wanted his respect.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  I think I always felt like I had that.

• 13:45Dax Shepard?

  I don't think I had.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  But also I can hang.

• 13:50Dax Shepard?

  That's my point. I think the thing you can get as a little brother is you learn how to hang. Cause you're kind of in a situation where you're a guest and you'd be easily kicked out of the situation. And I think you kind of get good at the hang.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  To your point of knowing your role or what you can contribute to the scenario, even this right now. I would have to sit here and assess what I can contribute to this conversation. You guys have done this a lot. I've done it very little.

• 14:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How do you like press in general?

• 14:13Speaker 02

  It's not my comfort zone necessarily, but I don't, I don't mind doing it. You guys are in really in luck today because I have absolutely nothing to promote or talk about.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I know. That's our favorite. That is our favorite.

• 14:24Dax Shepard?

  Our favorite is just like trying to figure out like, well, who's the guy behind all the stuff? Or who's the woman?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  When we started this show, it was not to help promote people's projects at all. It was this, it's like, let's just have cool people who we want to get to know. And then over time, when it got bigger, then people would say like, hey, our client has a movie. Can they come on and promote the movie? And it's like at the end for five minutes, but we're here to do something else.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  Right. But you guys are a big enough thing that you're part of that wheel where people now, people approach you with that. And so you have to kind of sort that out.

• 14:58Dax Shepard?

  But we've been hunting you. We were begging for you. Yeah, yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Because you and Luke have the same publicist, maybe is that who it is? Yes.

• 15:04Dax Shepard?

  And when she was here, we were like, okay, so we really love Chris. I first saw you, you did a 60 Minutes profile, probably three or four years ago. That was my first kind of glimpse. That was it. I mean, I'd heard your music, but that was like, oh, here's this guy who at that point on the outside, I don't know what it felt like on the inside. It's like, oh, there's a phenom on the scene. And that was the essence of the 60 Minutes interview. And it was just a great profile. I also fucking love 60 Minutes. But like, how was that? Is that majorly uncomfortable? Cause that's Daze, right?

• 15:35Speaker 02

  I've been real fortunate that people understand maybe my discomfort with some of it. And I've been real lucky in that everybody's really nice and easy to work with.

• 15:42Dax Shepard?

  You're crazy likable.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  I don't know that I've had an experience where like, man, that was uncomfortable. The first time I ever went on Stern, I was uncomfortable about going on Stern.

• 15:50Dax Shepard?

  It's scary. Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  It was like a wild card thing. Like, I don't know what he's going to ask or how uncomfortable he's going to try to make me. If he wants to. It was a remarkably wonderful experience and he was so kind.

• 16:00Dax Shepard?

  Were you shy as a kid?

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I don't know that I was particularly, but I find that maybe I am more as an adult.

• 16:06Dax Shepard?

  Fame can have this very bizarre effect, kind of counterintuitive effect. It certainly had it on me, which is like, I'm a huge extrovert all growing up. I'm such an extrovert, not shy. But when you meet people who already know you, for me, I want to deliver. I want to make sure that they enjoyed it and that when they leave, they're like, I'm glad I met him. So I enter in with a little anxiety. It's changed for me. It's kind of made me less of an extrovert.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Cause you feel like you have to be on.

• 16:34Dax Shepard?

  Before I was just a piece of shit. I'd meet someone at 7-Eleven, I was like, you're funny or I wasn't, who gave a shit? And then they drove away, but now I'm like, okay, I got.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Because it feels like some kind of pressure to perform?

• 16:43Dax Shepard?

  To deliver. Like, oh, here's someone who's telling me they love me and they love my stuff. I want to make sure that I.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Give them what they want.

• 16:50Dax Shepard?

  Kind of don't let them down. That's what it is. I have the pressure of like, I don't want to let someone down who has expressed that they like me.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  I get that, but also at some point you're just a human being and you just gotta go. I don't have it today, man, but thank you. I can't be the dancing thing.

• 17:04Dax Shepard?

  My wife yelled at me for 20 minutes on the way to this airport that you're seeing me at. So, you know, keep that in mind in this interaction.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  There's human experiences that you bring into everything that people aren't necessarily seeing that in you in those moments.

• 17:16Dax Shepard?

  They're not assuming you might've had a really crazy, terrible morning.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  No, and for the most part I don't.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  I feel very fortunate.

• 17:24Dax Shepard?

  They're right for the most part.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  That is little brother energy.

• 17:29Dax Shepard?

  All right, hit me.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  That is wanting approval.

• 17:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I want approval.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Listen, I want approval. I stand up on stage, want to hear people do this?

• 17:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a junkie. Yeah, yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  But you do for your work, but do you, as you? I think Dax and me, probably, maybe a little bit less, or some of older sister. You want people to approve of you, not your work necessarily, you as a person.

• 17:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're probably opposite in that way, I guess.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  You think?

• 17:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'll tell you why. You'll easily understand. When I just was acting and people give me compliments, they did not feel like mine. You know, that was a great director, the script was great, my co-stars were better than me.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  That can be true of all situations in life, you know, like we're all the sum of the people around us.

• 18:13Dax Shepard?

  That's true, but if someone loves one of your songs, you wrote it, you sang it, you played it. I feel that way about the podcast. Like, if people like me for the podcast, I'm able more to be proud of the work.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 18:27Dax Shepard?

  I was shocked and I don't know why that you were valedictorian.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Congratulations.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 18:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 18:35Dax Shepard?

  Now, I don't want to insult you, but what was the pool of people they were selecting from? Is this thousands of people?

• 18:43Speaker 02

  There were two of us.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  That's a big deal.

• 18:47Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, yeah. I don't think we've ever interviewed a valedictorian. And then we've interviewed like-

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Yes, you have.

• 18:51Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Somebody just didn't tell you.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  I wonder if Bill Gates was the valedictorian.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Nobody wants to talk about, I mean, I'm 47. We're talking about 30 years ago. Why are we talking about it?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  That's interesting, being the valedictorian, because that early on, you had a moment of, I'm number one.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  And that does something to people.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  You think?

• 19:12Speaker 01

  It teaches you, you can be number one. It's a possibility.

• 19:16Dax Shepard?

  How did it work? First of all, how many kids were in your graduating class?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  250.

• 19:21Dax Shepard?

  That's impressive. Does the principal call you in?

• 19:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:24Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Well, because you probably had to make a speech at graduation, right?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  I actually just sang a song.

• 19:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  I did.

• 19:31Dax Shepard?

  What song did you sing?

• 19:32Speaker 02

  I wrote one.

• 19:33Dax Shepard?

  Was it called Valedictorian?

• 19:35Speaker 02

  It was, absolutely.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  It's only on the nose. Early work.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  It was called 4.0.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Not to minimize, but it was like a shared thing. There were four or five of us. We were all tied.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  That's still great.

• 19:47Dax Shepard?

  So the two things that shocked me right away is like valedictorian and then football. I think that surprised me too.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Why?

• 19:53Dax Shepard?

  Because you exude this really kind soulfulness, gentleness.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Tenderness.

• 20:01Dax Shepard?

  Tenderness, sensitive, all the things that are magic about your music. That's what you exude. And those are fucking awesome things to exude. So if you find out he's a football player and then a brainiac, you know, it's a little out of the pattern.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  No, I think it's okay to have parts. Football games and organized street fight, you know, where you get to get some aggression out between the whistles, you know?

• 20:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  I think that's healthy and good. I love football. I enjoyed it. And if I had been good enough, I'd still be playing. I would have played football over playing music.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  What? Thank God you weren't good enough.

• 20:30Dax Shepard?

  I would have raced cars over anything I ended up doing. Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Everybody kind of has something like that where they're like, if I was good enough, I'd be doing that. I'm glad that I'm not doing that.

• 20:38Dax Shepard?

  Well, you would have been brought in on a wheelchair probably at 47.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  CTE or something like that.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. I'm glad you said it.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  I worry about those things just from how I played when I was in high school. We were taught to use our heads as weapons and we did.

• 20:50Dax Shepard?

  Son, God gave you a weapon. It's on your shoulders. So I want you to swing around. Okay. So when did you start playing guitar?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Maybe 12. My dad had bought a guitar with the thought of him learning how to play. And it just sat around. And so, and so I picked up that guitar.

• 21:07Dax Shepard?

  And self-taught or did you ever take lessons or anything?

• 21:09Speaker 02

  One lesson and the guy quit teaching lessons the next day. And so I had one lesson and that was it.

• 21:16Dax Shepard?

  Did he have a health issue or were you the reason? Did you force him into retirement?

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Pretty much. I don't know. I really don't know. I went to my cousin's house and me and my cousin, this guy was some local cat put in the paper or something. He taught, I don't know where we found him. My mom found him or something. He came over to my cousin's house and we took one guitar lesson. I don't even know that we learned anything. That was it.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  What if he was like, I can't, there's nothing more I can do?

• 21:41Dax Shepard?

  I have nothing more to teach you. Yeah, that's what probably.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  He was my only guitar teacher.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:46Dax Shepard?

  That's really, yeah, that is cool. What kind of kid were you in high school?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Pretty good kid. I was busy. I did all the stuff.

• 21:52Dax Shepard?

  Getting the good grades.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  If there was an activity to do, I would do it.

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  Were you popular?

• 21:57Speaker 02

  Maybe in my own mind. I don't know.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  I'm sure you were.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Popular among people who are my peers. I don't have any real concept of that. I think I was, but I don't know.

• 22:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Did you girls like you? Yeah, I hope you would know that. You had a girlfriend. Okay, that's good. A lot of guys didn't have those. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot of guys never got one of those in high school.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  We were just talking about popular in the car the other day where I think now popular is different than what you think of it as.

• 22:26Dax Shepard?

  Tell me how.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  We were talking to some kids. They were like, popular isn't like that. Now it's just you're in your groups, but there's no top group.

• 22:36Dax Shepard?

  But do you think that's kids in private schools in LA where they've kind of? Yeah, I think so. Cause I hear it too. Like we have friends who's go to these really nice schools and no one's getting picked on. No one got their ass kicked in the parking lot. I'm like, this isn't eating. It sounds like.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Nobody's trying to sell bags of oregano and pass them off as marijuana.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 22:56Dax Shepard?

  You weren't set on music, right? In high school?

• 22:58Speaker 02

  I played a little music outside of school, but I did more sports oriented things in high school.

• 23:05Dax Shepard?

  And when you went to Vanderbilt, you went for biomedical engineering and then switched to business?

• 23:11Speaker 02

  I hated all that, by the way.

• 23:12Dax Shepard?

  You hated all those classes and everything?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:15Dax Shepard?

  It couldn't have been an accident. You picked Vanderbilt, right? Do you think in the back of your mind, you're like, I'll just get over to Nashville.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  I just liked Nashville and I had been to a football camp at Vanderbilt and I liked the coaches. I was going to try to walk on. Cause you know, you're 18, you think you can do anything. Once again, you think you can be number one and then you're getting in the real world and you're like, oh, that guy's 270 and runs a 46. Maybe I can't do this.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Also you may not know this since you're not from the South, but Vanderbilt is the Ivy of the South. That's what they call it.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  They used to call themselves the Harvard of the South.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:45Dax Shepard?

  Harvard of the South.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I grew up hearing that as well. So if you were a valedictorian, it would make sense.

• 23:51Dax Shepard?

  You're supposed to go there.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:52Dax Shepard?

  So you got here, you hated all those classes. You kept changing your major and then as legend goes, you meet a dude who is a salaried songwriter.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I lived in Kentucky at the time.

• 24:04Dax Shepard?

  So wait, you dropped out and then moved back to Kentucky?

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Well, I went to UK for two years.

• 24:09Dax Shepard?

  What's UK? University of Kentucky? Okay. Where's that? Lexington?

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Lexington, Kentucky.

• 24:13Dax Shepard?

  This didn't make it to your Wikipedia page. This is like that lost years.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  It also says on the Wikipedia page that I was in a Travis Tritt cover band, which is not true.

• 24:21Dax Shepard?

  That's gone.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Damn it. I always liked it that it was on there. Fucking mess with people.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  We'll get it back.

• 24:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Someone had put in my mind that my birth name was Daximus. That lived there for years. I was like, that's pretty great.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  I like it when there's fake shit on the internet. Is that where when people ask you about it? No, that's fake.

• 24:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So wait, you went up to Kentucky and you did two years there. And what were you majoring in there?

• 24:40Speaker 02

  It was business.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  But why'd you leave Vanderbilt?

• 24:42Speaker 02

  I hated it.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  You hated just the scene?

• 24:45Speaker 02

  A little bit and I just wasn't good at it. I wasn't prepared.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  For what?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  For the intensity of it.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Of the academics, yeah.

• 24:52Dax Shepard?

  For the Harvard of the South.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Right. I wasn't prepared.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Cause it came easy to you before. So then, yeah, that makes sense.

• 24:59Dax Shepard?

  Where did your dad go to college?

• 25:00Speaker 02

  He went to WVU, West Virginia University.

• 25:02Dax Shepard?

  Is he from West Virginia?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:04Dax Shepard?

  He died in 13?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  That sounds right.

• 25:06Dax Shepard?

  My dad died in 2012. Too young, 62, my dad.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Six was my dad.

• 25:11Dax Shepard?

  Was it coal related?

• 25:12Speaker 02

  No, he was diabetic and had renal failure and congestive heart failure and a number of.

• 25:17Dax Shepard?

  Systemic collapse of organs. So if he died in 2013, he missed quite a bit of stuff. All of the solo career.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:26Dax Shepard?

  Does that bum you out?

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Well, it probably wouldn't exist. I made that first record. I tried to make a record that I thought he would like. And that was what the first record was.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  That was Traveler.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. He did get to see me. I mean, I was in a bluegrass band.

• 25:37Dax Shepard?

  The Steel Drivers?

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Steel Drivers. And he really loved that band. He was really bummed out when I was no longer in that band.

• 25:43Dax Shepard?

  The Steel Drivers were fucking great. That's what I've been listening to the last two days.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 25:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, that's some good first shit. Okay, so how do you end up leaving Kentucky and then getting to Nashville?

• 25:53Speaker 02

  I met this guy named Steve Leslie, who was a salary songwriter at EMI at the time through a mutual acquaintance. He went to Morehead State University. I lived in a town called Morehead and I was just working on jobs and lived with a guy named Jesse Wells, who plays for Tyler Childers now. He's an instrumentalist that I grew up with, played Little League with, kind of lived in a house with him. Jesse met Steve and just in passing, I don't even know if it was a real comment, Steve told my friend, he's like, hey, if you know anybody that writes songs around here, I would love to help somebody out.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  And gave him his telephone number. So I was back and forth from there. And I think I was probably back home with my parents, helping out there, doing something. I don't know what I was doing. I floated a lot in my early twenties. So I just called this guy. I said, hey, I write songs. He's like, cool. Send me a few things. I said, okay, well, there you go. And I just sent him things, didn't think anything of it. And a couple of weeks went by and he listened to it. Steve always likes to tell the story that he called and my mom told him, well, he's fishing. He'll have to call you back.

• 26:46Dax Shepard?

  He's gone fishing.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  But I called him back and he said, hey, man, this stuff's pretty good. Maybe you want to come down and hang out and write. And so I came down back and forth for a couple of months and met a few people. And it seemed like a good thing to do. And I had zero money. So I bombed a little bit of money off my uncle, got down to Nashville and had about maybe a month's worth of living expenses off what I bombed off of my uncle.

• 27:10Dax Shepard?

  How soon before Seagull?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  I had a publishing deal in seven days, which is not

• 27:15Dax Shepard?

  Seven days?

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Which is not anybody's story, but that's mine.

• 27:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How does it work? So you've submitted some songs to Seagull.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  He introduced me to people, to Frank Rogers and Chris Dubois, who ran this publishing company called Seagull Music. We was an EMI co-venture at the time. And then I met Liz O'Sullivan, who was a plugger there. That's the person that kind of pitches songs around. You know, I don't know how much you know about it.

• 27:36Dax Shepard?

  I don't.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Liz was a big advocate of mine. And then there were a couple of other people that I met, Pat Finch. He ran another publishing company. And those guys kind of all got interested in me. And Liz Sullivan would call me every night, hey, you just got to come over here. Just come over here. And it was a co-venture, so there was no opportunity to really own any of your catalog like it was at some other places. There's less money. The piece of the pie is frank for you. There's no ownership, really. But it was more important to me to be working with somebody that believed in what I was doing.

• 28:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  And I said, well, all that other stuff will work itself out. So I wasn't worried about the money.

• 28:08Dax Shepard?

  So they go, okay, we're hiring you. You're under contract with us and we want you to what? Do they like deploy you, like go meet with this musician?

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Liz orchestrated that too. Setting up these veteran guys that you were talking about that I would get in a room with.

• 28:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Were because of her. She knew these people and they'd give some no name young guy a shot. Get in the room, see what you got.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What is the protocol? Once you're in that room and how are you supposed to know how it goes? That's my question. Like you've written by yourself.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  I'm going to learn, but I don't say that going in. I know how to write a song by myself.

• 28:37Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  And that's where you have to sit back and see what role you can play. Where am I valuable in this? This person is a better guitar player than me, or this person's a better singer than me, or this person is obviously a better writer than me. What can I bring to this? What is my role? Maybe I can go make the coffee and that's my role.

• 28:53Dax Shepard?

  You did this for 10 years. You wrote a thousand. Songs in these 10 years, you wrote six number one hits for huge musicians. So it all worked out. But when you walk into a session with, let's just say Luke Bryan, or any one of these guys you had hit, do you come in with a song?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  I'm not necessarily always writing with artists. Nashville's unique and it's a songwriter community. Yeah, more than, maybe not as much as it used to be. I'm not in that down there everyday mix like I used to be. It's probably more LA track guys now or something. But you go in a room and it could be just two guys that write songs and be like, what do you got today? Not pointing at anything. It's a clean slate. Yeah, you just kind of see what comes.

• 29:34Dax Shepard?

  So you haven't come in with anything?

• 29:36Speaker 02

  I would rarely come in with anything.

• 29:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I don't know if you're supposed to come in like I am.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  I'm glad to. Listen, I have endless blabbering in my phone.

• 29:43Dax Shepard?

  Voice memos.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Voice memos and typing shit down that I don't know what it means. Most of it's useless, but maybe five years from now, I'll go, oh, I can use that for this.

• 29:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, I was kind of blown away to learn that Higher, which ended up on your album, 2023, that was 21 years earlier you had written that song.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  I wrote that song probably the first year I was in Nashville. So maybe longer than that. I moved to Nashville in 2001. So at this point, 25 years old, I think sometimes it's better if they're old, because if you still like it and it's that old, it's probably pretty good.

• 30:20Dax Shepard?

  And then this is nosey, but I'm just, again, I know nothing about it. I'm so curious. When you're working with a female, are you just on a monthly stipend?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  You get paid a salary and that's a recoupable salary, you know, against royalties.

• 30:33Dax Shepard?

  Anything you end up making in the future.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you're also a contract worker. You're not an employee.

• 30:37Dax Shepard?

  You don't get health insurance?

• 30:38Speaker 02

  No, you're a contract worker and it's a year to year thing, whether or not they pick up options.

• 30:42Dax Shepard?

  When did the leverage switch and you started getting ownership?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Well, you just negotiate those things when you contracts come up. It's contract negotiation.

• 30:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 30:49Speaker 02

  I always like terms better than money, you know, terms are always better than money.

• 30:53Dax Shepard?

  Terms are better than money. What does that mean?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  The ownership things or reversions. Some guys want, pay me as much money as you can. You can keep it all.

• 31:00Dax Shepard?

  Upfront.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:02Dax Shepard?

  Roger, Roger, Roger.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  When it moved so fast, it was like seven days and then you have this. Were you shocked or were you like, yeah, I am really good at this?

• 31:11Speaker 02

  No, you just feel lucky because you know that that's not everybody else's story. You can walk around in Nashville and there's 50,000 guys trying to do that. It might take somebody five or six years or more to get a first publishing deal somewhere.

• 31:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  And now that's based off of social media some way. They pick up some TikTok person. It's a little different.

• 31:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, one great song and then we hope that they've written another 100 or so, or can write another 100 or so.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Who knows?

• 31:35Dax Shepard?

  Of Kenny Chesney, Josh Turner, George Strait, Luke Bryan, these are all guys that you worked with and ended up writing number one singles with. How did those sessions vary?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  A lot of the songs you're naming worked the way that I described. I wrote them with some other dude. They heard the song and they recorded it. I didn't know those guys necessarily.

• 31:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. So you can go to them done without you meeting them?

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  I can imagine this being a very frustrating job. I would have a hard time writing the thing and that person gets it and it's number one. And everyone is giving them accolades and it's like, but I wrote it. Is it hard?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  I mean, not when the check shows up in the mailbox. It's just fine.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Wow. That is the opposite of ego.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  When I found out that you could have a job where you could sit in a room and make up things on a guitar, I thought that's the greatest job I've ever heard of.

• 32:28Dax Shepard?

  And I think I know the distinction between why it's different is he wasn't trying to be yet the star of the movie. It's not like the writers in Hollywood are pissed that Tom Cruise is getting action. They're like, yeah, I'm a writer who writes scripts and this movie got made.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And if you wrote the Tom Cruise movie, you're sold.

• 32:44Dax Shepard?

  And you're just a music writer and so you're writing hit songs. You're doing the exact thing you were hoping to do.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, you won it.

• 32:50Dax Shepard?

  And so when you start Steel Driver in 07, so I guess you've been here at this point for six years, what is the motivation to do that?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  One of the guys that I wrote songs with was a guy named Mike Henderson, veteran guy, great blues player. He was in a band called Mike Henderson and the Blue Bloods, if you ever want to check that out, or also King Snakes. But he's a guitarist, a session musician.

• 33:09Dax Shepard?

  Incredible guitar player.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Incredible. He's passed away now, but I wrote probably more songs with him than I did anybody else. And he and I both really liked bluegrass. And as he would have put it, we had these perfectly good songs sitting around going to waste, but they were a bunch of like bluegrass murder ballads.

• 33:24Dax Shepard?

  Luke Bryan's not going to sing that.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're not pitching those to like, commercial country radio. He wanted to get a gig at like VFWs or something, and just a weekly gig that we could have a band and have fun, just for fun. I think all good bands start that way.

• 33:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  It's just for fun. We started playing standard songs, but we had these other songs that we can play this way. And then we started playing that way. We got a few more gigs, then we wound up having a deal on Rounder Records, which was a pretty good acoustic label.

• 33:50Dax Shepard?

  And they did really well. The Steel Divers did great, right?

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did really well, and it was a good time.

• 33:57Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking your phone's battery before heading out, that'll get you every time. Of course, your phone dies on the way to meet someone, leaving you wandering around quietly panicking about being in the wrong spot. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Co. and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Intuit TurboTax. You know that feeling when you drop your taxes

• 34:38Dax Shepard?

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• 35:19Dax Shepard?

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• 35:25Speaker 01

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• 35:30Dax Shepard?

  If you're not going to trust me, trust the show.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 35:33Dax Shepard?

  Visit TurboTax.com to get matched with a TurboTax full-service expert today. That's TurboTax.com, only available with TurboTax full-service experts. Real-time updates only on iOS mobile app. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace, and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public-facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private. It's been yours. But at some point, you're ready to put it out there, and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap.

• 36:18Dax Shepard?

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• 37:01Speaker 01

  Ooh, Scottsdale's good. What's drawing you to it?

• 37:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I have this wonderful memory of going there as a kid, when I would go see my stepdad when he was working out there. The weather is perfect in fall, warm, sunny, no humidity. And you can really do whatever you want with your time there. I want to do a sunrise hike through the Sonoran Desert, be surrounded by Saguaro, and then at the same afternoon, just completely melt into a spa treatment at one of their luxury resorts.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds amazing. I want to do that. Also, I was there visiting my brother once, and I loved Old Town Scottsdale. It's so walkable. They have galleries and cute little restaurants and shops. The food scene alone is worth the trip.

• 37:43Dax Shepard?

  What I keep reading is that it's luxurious, but not stuffy. There's no pressure to do it a certain way. You can explore public art, check out the architecture, go off roading in the desert, or just sit and watch a sunset.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  It really is the perfect fall reset.

• 37:57Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about all Scottsdale has to offer at unwindinscottsdale.com.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  I think that made me a better writer doing that. I learned a lot from the guys and the lady in that band. They were all session people and pros. I learned how to be in a band, but I also took a pretty big hit in songwriting income because I was touring.

• 38:22Dax Shepard?

  Right. You were losing money doing that.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Losing money playing that.

• 38:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, that's tricky.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  But I do feel like it made me better at both of those things. It felt important and it felt like something to do. It was stressful for my wife.

• 38:36Dax Shepard?

  I guess there's two ways this could have happened to you, right? Like, we interviewed Ted Danson and his analogy, which I love, was in his life, he feels like he's been sitting in the back of a pickup truck. He's not looking forward. He's just kind of like, things are happening in the environment surrounding him and these opportunities are coming. But in his mind, he wasn't steering the wheel. And I'm curious, did you just accidentally end up a lead man?

• 38:58Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I moved to Nashville to be a songwriter.

• 39:00Dax Shepard?

  So at no point did you go, okay, we're switching gears. I'm only writing for me. It just happened.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Probably won't do that. You still won't do that. I don't write a lot anymore and I do get calls from people to write with them for things, which inevitably winds up being, hey, will you also come sing on this thing? You know, like, okay, well, okay. But I really love the role of getting in a room with somebody and writing for their thing. And I enjoy just the exercise of walking in a room with somebody and going, what are we going to do today? What are we going to pull down out of the sky and put the antenna up and see what happens?

• 39:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Does it get you kind of charged? Like, is there a fear that's also present?

• 39:34Speaker 02

  I don't have any fear. Zero.

• 39:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  That it won't come? I'd be so scared of that.

• 39:40Dax Shepard?

  He's Bill Murray of country.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:42Dax Shepard?

  He knows it's gonna happen.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  He just takes a deep breath. I don't know that I know it's gonna happen. I just feel very able.

• 39:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're competent. This is what you fucking do.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  More than anything else. I know if I can't do anything else, and I can't do a lot of other things very well. There's a lot of holes that come with being able to do a few things pretty good.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:02Dax Shepard?

  Sure. Some blind spots.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of blind spots in your personality that come with that.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  I'm kind of interested in the blind spots. What are your blind spots? Personality wise, would you say?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Personality wise?

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I don't like deadlines.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Almost don't believe in them.

• 40:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, Sheriff, you have a song that comes out 21 years after you wrote it. Deadlines are hooey.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  I used to say there's no such thing as a country music emergency. We're not performing brain surgery.

• 40:26Dax Shepard?

  No hearts on ice.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, people can get really elevated about things that we do. And certainly I did have someone say to me one time that we have a healing component in what we do for music. And that's important, and I took that to heart, but there's not any real emergencies.

• 40:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the song doesn't come out in August. No one's dying.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  And so I'm not great at deadlines in that way because I prefer something to be right over it being done. What I believe to be right.

• 40:54Dax Shepard?

  Do you feel a little bit like a psychologist? You sit down with a virtual stranger, I'm imagining a lot of the times, and you're like trying to get a read on their personality. You want to help fill in what they're lacking and then lean on whatever they're strong. Like, is there a feeling out period where you're trying to figure out what's the best approach to work with this person?

• 41:12Speaker 02

  I don't know, man. I just kind of show up.

• 41:15Dax Shepard?

  You just show up. That's half a life, I mean.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do think that. I think half a life, or at least the way that I have gotten to live, is showing up. Must be present to win, I used to say.

• 41:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think Nashville's a much more special place than people broadly know. I think it's a really supportive place.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  We're all rooting for each other. If your buddy got a number one, you're like, that's great, man.

• 41:36Dax Shepard?

  Congratulations. Broadway, and that the Broadway people are so kind to each other and supportive, and comedians are not. We're the worst, you know, fucking stand ups are all hate each other and they're jealous of each other. So like when I see these creative places where people are genuinely rooting for each other, I think it's special. I don't think it's everywhere.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Well, maybe not. It works a lot better. The rising tide raises all ships.

• 41:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What prompted you to leave Steel Driver?

• 41:58Speaker 02

  One of the guys in the band developed a fear of flying.

• 42:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fear of flying.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Wow, that's.

• 42:04Dax Shepard?

  Not easy to call me. Neither. We need for addiction. That's generally what brings a band down.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  I had an opinion about what we needed to do and everybody else in the band had a different opinion, so they got somebody else.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 42:17Dax Shepard?

  Wait, wait, hold on a second.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Over a fear of flying, a fear that wasn't even yours?

• 42:20Dax Shepard?

  Were you fired? Is that what you're saying? Were you kicked out of the band?

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Technically, yes.

• 42:24Dax Shepard?

  Technically?

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 42:26Dax Shepard?

  I didn't read that in Wikipedia.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Well, that's not, I probably shouldn't be saying that on here, but that's technically the truth.

• 42:33Dax Shepard?

  Were you hurt?

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Well, sure, but I also didn't believe that we were.

• 42:39Dax Shepard?

  Setting the right course?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Right. And so I was like, okay, I'll do something else.

• 42:43Dax Shepard?

  Then you form another band, the Johnson Brothers.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:46Dax Shepard?

  What's this thing where you don't capitalize the T in your bands? Are you an E E Cummings fan? Why aren't we capitalizing the T in these bands?

• 42:53Speaker 02

  There's some T in that band.

• 42:54Dax Shepard?

  Because Steel Drivers, it's the Steel Drivers, right?

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Man, you've already thought about it more than I have.

• 42:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the T's not capitalized.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Interesting, but the S and the D are?

• 43:02Dax Shepard?

  They are. And guess what? The T is not capitalized in the Johnson Brothers either, but Johnson and Brothers is capitalized.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Wow, that is scary.

• 43:10Dax Shepard?

  You have no awareness of this? Chris, how could you not notice that your Ts are not capitalized?

• 43:17Dax Shepard?

  You think it's a typo?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I think maybe it is. I don't know.

• 43:20Dax Shepard?

  It wasn't intentional?

• 43:22Speaker 02

  There was not a lot that was intentional for me and a lot of what I've done.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  You seem very peaceful.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wish that were all the way true, but I try to be.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  You seem very content.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Content might be elusive.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  What are you wrestling with? Did you do New Year's resolutions?

• 43:39Speaker 02

  My New Year's resolution was to simplify. I have a tendency to be complicated about everything.

• 43:45Dax Shepard?

  What version of complicated? You're overthinking everything?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Definitely that. I weigh out things very deliberately and in long and arduous ways that annoy my wife, who's very impulsive and can very quickly make decisions.

• 43:59Dax Shepard?

  You're kind of indecisive?

• 44:00Speaker 02

  I prefer the word thoughtful.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 44:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, what are we trying to head off? What fear is driving some of this overplanning and overthinking?

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Making mistakes. I don't like to make mistakes.

• 44:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I hate to be an armchair psychologist, but is this from the stern dad?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  I'm sure it is.

• 44:20Dax Shepard?

  It could be.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  I mean, valedictorian, all of these things.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  No, you're like an overachiever, but at the center of that could be a bunch of different things. You're an overachiever because you don't think you're worthy of love. If you're spectacular, that's kind of my thing. You could be an overachiever also because you got punished for failing. There could be a lot of different motivations.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  I don't know if I ever got punished for failing, not by anyone but myself.

• 44:44Dax Shepard?

  Do you beat the shit out of yourself?

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 44:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good hobby, right?

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 44:50Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's time consuming.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it definitely takes up a lot of time.

• 44:54Dax Shepard?

  You must acknowledge that anyone who's gonna sit in a room by themselves in solitary and focus and do that repetitively, it's a personality type. A lot of people can't sit by themselves and dedicate that amount of time.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  No, a lot of people are uncomfortable with that.

• 45:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think it's unique and it's really common among musicians, I think. And it's really counterintuitive because you're seeing these people that are like, they're playing in front of 90,000 people. You think they're kind of an extrovert. That's what's presenting, but you realize what gets you there is actually sitting by yourself in a room a lot. It's almost like opposite what the result is.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  But you're sitting by yourself in the room for the 90,000 people. That's me throwing that out here right now.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:35Dax Shepard?

  Do you think you have any isms, any conditions?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Sure. I'm not a doctor, so I can't diagnose any of those.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Well, perfectionism, it sounds like, is at play for sure. If you can't make mistakes.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I mean, I can make mistakes and I do make many, many, many mistakes and that's okay.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  But they're painful for you.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  I don't like to. You can't leave here without a diagnosis. Okay. What ism do you think that I have?

• 45:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't know. You're not giving me a lot to make my theories.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  It's part of my charm.

• 46:00Dax Shepard?

  Let's acknowledge, how about, I think it is part of your charm.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Do you have a hard time opening up?

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Maybe that's an ism.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Non-opening up ism?

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I think so. A vulnerable, maybe it's like a lack. You're obviously vulnerable because your songs are so deep and meaningful.

• 46:15Dax Shepard?

  But I think that's why.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, control. We're getting there.

• 46:20Dax Shepard?

  Somewhere, we love control.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Everyone here in this room loves control.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  There's some safety in the space of a song because I'm not having to explain it to anybody and you can apply yourself to it in whatever way you want to. And I think that you should. That's what songs are for. We don't have to talk about it. I can make this thing and you can take it and it can be yours and part of your life if you want it to be.

• 46:42Dax Shepard?

  And I'm not going to defend it. It is what it is, right? And I just wonder where the depth of your music and the range of it and just how much of it there is, if, you know,

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Everything's honking doors.

• 46:53Dax Shepard?

  There's pain driving that or no, maybe there's not.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Sure. I think a lot of it can be observation of the human condition in general. You can walk outside and shit, I passed a homeless dude on the bridge on the way over here. It's not hard to find, whether it's yours or somebody else's.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Do you feel like you take on other people's pain?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Feelings? Okay.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  But I also feel like I am not unaware of it.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  But some people are.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  And I can view it and try to examine it. That's my job as a songwriter is to try to attach to those things or at least examine those things and maybe help people find themselves in it.

• 47:27Dax Shepard?

  This has been my experience a little bit is like, it used to be really results oriented because I wanted things and those things happen and they're really great and yet they're very temporary and they don't fill you up for a very long time. And I think slowly you start hopefully transitioning to like, the process is the high.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Process is the high, but it's also disappointing when you get this thing, when you reach the moment.

• 47:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  And you're like, oh shit, that didn't do what I thought it was going to do. And I don't take those things in very well. Like I don't take even the good moments in very well.

• 47:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  I need to work on that.

• 47:59Dax Shepard?

  Do you think the shoe's always going to drop?

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. That's a good, toughy thing. We have this innate genetic component of, ah, so we gotta make hay while the sun's shining or something bad's going to happen.

• 48:10Dax Shepard?

  I was raised largely by my two grandparents that are both from Kentucky. They both moved up.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  You understand.

• 48:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  What part of Kentucky they from?

• 48:16Dax Shepard?

  Hazard.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah. You really understand that.

• 48:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Of my grandma's five brothers, one killed another. The other one shot the other, but didn't kill him. And three of them all died in prison. That's the honchos. The fucking honchos are wild. I always say our 10 year old is clearly 12.5% honcho because she can fucking let it rip.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  As I said earlier, I grew up in Georgia. I was just there. You're the only artist I know that all our friends in LA are so excited we're talking to you and all my friends in Georgia are so excited we're talking to you. You unify, you span the gambit. That's not the case. That is very rare.

• 48:53Dax Shepard?

  No, people almost let our studio on fire for having Jason LD.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Well, you know.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Some people, um.

• 49:02Dax Shepard?

  Court controversy.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  That's part of their thing. And some people want to discuss things that aren't about music or make that part of their thing. And it's not part of my thing.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  But you're very universal. There's something about your writing that people really gravitate towards regardless of their specific musical taste. Like, I don't think all our friends are like, super into country.

• 49:24Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  But they love you.

• 49:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what's right about your music, too, is you can come to it from all these different angles. So, yeah, like, I have a lot of friends in LA. Our friend Charlie Curtis is just like, he would fucking cut off many fingers to just shake your hand. His way into you is very interesting. It's like, definitely, he's a very masculine man. He played football at Georgetown and Rice. He's a physical phenom. And like, you allow him somehow to be this masculine man who is fucking feeling emotion. I think that's the unique gift you're giving to a lot of men. You're singing the national anthem at the Super Bowl, and they fucking cut over, and the coach is bawling. Fucking Kelsey's crying. The men are crying. You're allowing these men to feel and emote. And that's so rare. And that's just a pocket of your appeal.

• 50:11Dax Shepard?

  And then my thing with you is, I hate to be repetitive of Brolin, because he interviewed you and said basically the same thing. Like, you're bringing back, for me, the only country I loved, which is like outlaw country. When I hear your stuff, I'm like, mm-hmm, this dude's wailing a parent. That's what you're channeling for me. And then the women are loving you for some other reason. So, it's kind of.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  For some other reason. Unbeknownst to me.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Question mark.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  No, you know, I, you know, I don't know. Thanks.

• 50:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I know. There's nothing to say to that. That's probably hard to hear.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not on purpose. I guess that's my question. Is it on purpose? Are you thinking?

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Am I thinking about who I'm connecting to?

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, or like, I want to make sure I don't. By the way, we think about it. We think about it on this show. We don't want to contribute to the divide. We're here to like, show humanity.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  I think that's an important thing to want to connect to. But I also think, in a musical space, my job is to connect to the music and then put that out in the world and let people find themselves in it.

• 51:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, pray for the best.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the song doesn't really mean anything. No song means anything until it goes out into the world and people hear it and attach themselves to it and find themselves in it. Or it marks a point in their life. That's it. That has zero meaning until that happens.

• 51:25Dax Shepard?

  You have five senses, right? And this thing, music, it's in its own category of you kind of gotta call it magic. We have these ears that we're supposed to be listening to predators for and we're gonna communicate with. And then there's this completely pointless endeavor. Music? Yeah, making noises that will be sitting somewhere and crying or laughing or partying.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Remembering.

• 51:51Dax Shepard?

  We have this one sense that is open to complete nonsense. There's no purpose to it.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It's meant to unify us, though. That is a point to it. The magic point to me is in regards to a certain type of song, but people like sad songs, so they don't feel alone. And I think maybe all songs are that way in that we want to feel those emotions together. There's a communal thing in that even if you're driving in the car by yourself, listening to a song and it's hitting you in a certain way, it's still that communal thing. You're like, oh, there's somebody else in the world that understands this other thing that I'm going through. And so I'm not alone all of a sudden.

• 52:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  And I think that is the magic of music. It's not some mysterious thing. That is the magic of music is it helps us all be connected in ways that even a conversation or a look or a touch doesn't provide.

• 52:43Dax Shepard?

  I would argue too, it's the way that we can get emotion from my head into your head the quickest. To me, it's the most succinct, powerful delivery device.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  I don't think that's true for everybody, though. I think there are people that I've met in my life who are like, I've never been to a concert, I don't listen to music.

• 53:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  You don't do what?

• 53:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  I think that's not, there's not a value in everybody's household.

• 53:07Dax Shepard?

  They're bad in bed, though, those people.

• 53:13Dax Shepard?

  You should say to those people, well, you must be a terrible lover.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Well, they might be more of a visual artist that like museums.

• 53:20Dax Shepard?

  Sure, yeah.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:22Dax Shepard?

  You gotta put Chardonnay on when you're a kid in your car in high school. You know, you gotta let that do some of the work for you.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  It's also so connected to memory.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Music. And I think that's also what's so powerful about it. It's the only thing that is capable of transporting you.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Time travel.

• 53:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now I want to talk about Morgan a little bit. So your wife, Morgan, we've been married two for 18 years. You guys were working both in songwriting.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  She actually had a deal on RCA.

• 53:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, she did?

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was an artist.

• 53:52Dax Shepard?

  No, her voice is bonkers. I was listening to you guys sing Amanda. I was pretty shook by her voice. And also what a rad duet for you guys to do. Okay, so she bought you a 1979, she's done this a few times. I only know about two of them, but I'm inclined to imagine there's more. So you loved this 79 Jeep Cherokee and she found one for you and bought it?

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Well, oddly enough, I was looking at a scout that was in Portland, Oregon, and I was gonna buy this thing after my dad passed away. And it was gone. Somebody bought it. And I was like, well, I like this Jeep in Phoenix, too. Let's go do that. And that whole trip was an impetus. I wrote Traveler on that trip. If we'd have driven from Portland, I might have made a very different first record.

• 54:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  But we drove from Phoenix across the desert, you know, and it was a different thing.

• 54:37Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if this is apocryphal, but you're driving and the sun's coming up and Morgan's sleeping and Traveler hits you, yeah?

• 54:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was right before we got to Gallup, New Mexico. And so I wrote the whole song driving. And then I had to go inside and figure out how to play it when we got to the hotel in Gallup. You're driving a 79 Cherokee. There's not a lot of other things you can do.

• 54:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Requires your full focus.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  It requires your full attention and both hands on the wheel most of the time.

• 55:06Dax Shepard?

  But she bought you that and then she also bought you, you have one of Wayland's guitars.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I have that, too. Yeah.

• 55:12Dax Shepard?

  That's a fucking nice.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 55:14Dax Shepard?

  Present.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  If I'd have known you'd had that painted on here, I would have brought it with me.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 55:18Dax Shepard?

  I was pretty jealous when I saw Brolin holding that. He's my higher power. I just can't get enough.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  There's something about him. And you know, Robbie Turner, that played on our first record, played with Wayland in the Highwayman. So he has all these great Wayland stories, too. And of course, Robbie passed away.

• 55:33Dax Shepard?

  You're now the holder of these stories.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Maybe. There's a lot better people to tell them than me. But country music is great, that era in particular. Because those guys were more rock and roll than the most rock and roll guys you could talk about, but a lot of those stories don't exist in the public way because it's kind of this understood rule that they don't enter the public about how rock and roll those guys really were. It was just nuts.

• 55:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nuts, nuts.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  They were just nuts, nuts. When I think of what I like about country music, that's the era I like as well. The outlaw Waylon and Willie and Haggard.

• 56:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was a young man. I was like, oh, this is dangerous.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  It was dangerous, which is weird. My dad loved all that stuff, too, but my dad was like the straightest arrow. I'm just like, why do you love this stuff? It's everything that you're not. And maybe that's why I loved it.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  It was a real thing. Those guys were real. And Willie Nelson's the real deal.

• 56:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Have you seen this show that Mike Judge does called Tales from the Two or Buzz?

• 56:26Speaker 02

  I've watched all of them.

• 56:27Dax Shepard?

  Every one of those guys shot somebody other than Waylon, I think, in that first season. But the best part of that Waylon doc was when they're interviewing, I think, the drummer for the band at the time. And he goes, yeah, we used to have this routine before we go out on stage. We want to make sure everyone's on the same page chemically. So, you know, I'd ask Steve, how many are you on? A four? Okay, good. I'm on four, too. Mike, what are you on? They're talking about meth. I'm on four. Great. Haas, what are you at? Twelve.

• 56:56Dax Shepard?

  Waylon was always four X of whatever they were on.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  Not meth, but I do believe in being in the same chemical space. You can't have one guy drinking tequila and somebody else smoking weed.

• 57:07Dax Shepard?

  And then their guy shooting dope.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  You're insane. You're on different musical spectrums, you know, like you're riding different waves. You gotta be, you gotta keep it the same. I do believe in that.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Have you struggled with any of that stuff?

• 57:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, out of 10, what's your addiction level, do you think, naturally?

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Naturally?

• 57:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I'm a nine, just to let you, I'll go first.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  You're a nine?

• 57:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm a nine.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Five. I don't ever feel like I have to do something. I just want to do something.

• 57:30Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  It's never gotten away from you?

• 57:32Speaker 02

  No, not really.

• 57:33Dax Shepard?

  You don't have the gene. You're our age. You gotta quit or not. I had to quit. It was untenable.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  I still drink. I still have a cocktail every now and then.

• 57:41Dax Shepard?

  You'll have a nice traveler whiskey.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, I'm not here to advertise, but.

• 57:45Dax Shepard?

  But I am. I'm really saddened by the fact that I can't drink whiskey because I would love to try traveler because it sounds like exactly what I would be in the market for.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  I would have brought something if I'd have thought somebody would want to try it. I want to be respectful in this space.

• 57:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no, I'm very pro drinking. I don't want everyone drinking.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  We wouldn't be friends.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I think it's good for some people and it's not a great thing for others.

• 58:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you get to see it really up close and personal in the music biz or the show biz.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know who those guys are immediately. You're like, yeah, maybe it's not for you.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  I enjoy it, but I can certainly get obsessed with things more than I would call it, you know, like nuances of vintage things or weird guitar things.

• 58:23Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, your guitar collection is the giveaway.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  If you want to call that an addiction, then I'm probably a 25.

• 58:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  I definitely have lanes. I don't feel like I've ever crossed over into a lane where it's fucking my life up.

• 58:38Dax Shepard?

  I'm jealous. Five's the perfect number because it means you've let it rip a lot.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 58:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You want to let it fucking rip and then not take you down. That's like the sweet spot of it.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Well, especially if you don't like making mistakes and you like control.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Well, I find those things are a release, too.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Well, exactly.

• 58:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, I was gonna say, you kind of should be an addict because the release of control is the joy for me of being high.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  I don't want to celebrate being an addict in any way, but I do enjoy getting the buzz. I think that's fun.

• 59:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and a relief.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  For some people, it is a relief and it's maybe even a stress management, where I'll probably get some blutters about that. But in a way that it's like, okay, that's a reset and I'm cool. I'm good for a while. I don't pick it up, any of those things to cope with anything necessarily. It's more of an interest or something I enjoy.

• 59:27Dax Shepard?

  One of your hobbies.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  One of mine. One of the few, yeah.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Martinis are one of my hobbies, so I get it.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  What's your, what's your martini go to?

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Hendrick's Martini Lemon Twist, no vermouth.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:38Dax Shepard?

  So when she's over, that's what you gotta serve.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  You gotta have all those things.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  No, but I'll take, I'll take a whiskey. I'll take an old fashioned.

• 59:45Dax Shepard?

  What was your whiskey before you had your own?

• 59:46Speaker 02

  My favorite was E. H. Taylor.

• 59:48Dax Shepard?

  Graham Pappy's, what is it?

• 59:49Speaker 02

  See, the reason I got in business with the Sazerac Buffalo Trace people. They make all that stuff. They make EH Taylor, Traveler, the same master distiller as Pappy Van Winkle and Weller and all that awesome rare, you know, hard to get.

• 1:00:03Dax Shepard?

  There was a Pappy heist. Did you see this? I watched a doc on this.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07Dax Shepard?

  Millions of dollars.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  I work with those guys.

• 1:00:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right. Yeah. So you would know everything.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I don't know everything, but they talk about it. They're like, yeah, there's inside job.

• 1:00:14Dax Shepard?

  These fucking guys were kind of thing. They were draining the barrels and filling them with water. And there's millions of dollars of this crazy rare.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  They take it very seriously. Some of it takes 25 years to make. It's a long game kind of thing. It's very cool and it's very old world. One of the closest things we have in this country to this real heritage thing coming from Kentucky.

• 1:00:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's culture.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  It's American culture.

• 1:00:35Dax Shepard?

  We got whiskey. We got hip hop. We got country.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we got a handful of things. Yeah, jazz.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Blues.

• 1:00:41Dax Shepard?

  Maybe most importantly, jazz. Okay, after you do Traveler, it comes out, it's wildly successful. You are at the CMAs, I think. Is that where you did the Timberlake performance?

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you, now I'm not allowed to say this out loud, but Dave Coe was the other obsession. I've probably seen Dave Coe 15 times.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Aren't you allowed to say that?

• 1:01:02Dax Shepard?

  He's a pretty known racist. He's got some rough songs that didn't.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's probably not a badge you wear on your sleeve too much. Yeah.

• 1:01:12Dax Shepard?

  But boy, when I was 20 and drunk, nothing was more fun than going to a Dave Coe show.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  I went to one. Do you have his book of poems?

• 1:01:18Dax Shepard?

  No, I need his book of poems.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  It was like frat boys and bikers. That was the crowd. And I went to this show in Lexington, Kentucky, but on the merch table, he had David Allen Coe's short stories and poems. I didn't have the money to get it. And I told this story to a friend of mine, this Texas act, and he somehow found this merch book and he sent me a copy of it. So I have a copy of it. I don't know that I've read many of the poems.

• 1:01:43Dax Shepard?

  Kids probably shouldn't read that book, your kids. Maybe keep that up high on a shelf.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  As weird of a dude as he is, he's also written some wonderful songs.

• 1:01:51Dax Shepard?

  Incredible. No, he's a fucking hell of a musician.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Great writer, obviously problematic.

• 1:01:56Dax Shepard?

  You've heard the.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Everybody's heard the awful stuff. Yeah.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  The one who knows is aware of him, is aware of the other awful things. Wow. There are some also very wonderfully written.

• 1:02:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, God, yeah. Anyways, he made Tennessee whiskey very famous, but he didn't write Tennessee whiskey.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  No, he didn't write it. He had the first cut on it and George Jones had the hit on it.

• 1:02:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. George Jones made it.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  But I knew it from Coven.

• 1:02:23Dax Shepard?

  I only know that Dave Coven's. Anyways, you seen Tennessee whiskey with Timberlake. Did you already know him? Did that pairing seem crazy to you at first?

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  I mean, I called him to do it. I had met him. Somehow he saw me on a YouTube video or something. The first time I actually met him was his birthday and his wife called and said, hey, it's hard for me to find experiences that my husband hasn't had. Would you fly to Montana and play for his birthday party? Oh, wow. All of a sudden I'm the experience that you're, I mean, and I was like, okay. And his birthday is in January.

• 1:02:55Dax Shepard?

  And your wife's is too, right?

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  Twenty fifth, yeah. Max's birthday was yesterday. Yeah, he told me fifty one or his daughters told me. Okay. I flew up there. I couldn't believe how cold it was in Montana in January. Have you been in Montana in January?

• 1:03:08Dax Shepard?

  Not in January, but I've been to Wyoming and yeah, it's negative eighteen.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Inside by a fire with battery powered socks and every stitch of clothing that I own on. My bones hurt.

• 1:03:19Dax Shepard?

  It's not your climate.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  I'm not built for it.

• 1:03:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Don't let the beard fool you. This is no Grizzly Adams here.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, maybe you get used to it. I don't know. We're there for like a day and my wife's with me. We're like, what are we doing here? It's kind of odd.

• 1:03:31Dax Shepard?

  There must have been tons of stars at his birthday party.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  Well, this is we get to. So I think I'm going to play for this party and so it's time to go do the party. And we get on this horse drawn Santa Claus sleigh.

• 1:03:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  And we go up a mountain and I'm thinking like, there's grizzly bears up here. Who knows what we're gonna run into? We go to this cabin with no electricity. What? Zero electricity and we go in, there's one guy cooking on like an eighteen hundreds wood burning stove.

• 1:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  That's what's happening.

• 1:04:01Dax Shepard?

  He really wanted an experience he had never had.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Okay, well, listen, the room, not much bigger than where we're sitting right now. And just a small table. I'm like, what is hap? I felt like I was getting. Getting punked. Yes.

• 1:04:13Dax Shepard?

  And he was the most famous punk person, yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  He finally shows up and it's him and like his best friend and maybe his cousin. It's like six, seven people. I play a little bit of music.

• 1:04:23Dax Shepard?

  Wait, really? Wait, does that make you nervous? Like the smaller the group, the more nervous or less? You kind of already say you don't get nervous. You can say bizarre. You want to say bizarre and you don't want to offend anyone.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  It is strange.

• 1:04:36Dax Shepard?

  It's crazy bizarre.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  But cool.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  I played and then he's like, hey, man, sit down. And so I wound up just sitting down and we hung out that night and

• 1:04:45Dax Shepard?

  Had some whiskey.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Friendly. And then we went back to his house and definitely had some whiskey. Had some Pappy that night. There was a cake there and I wanted to be a piece, I cut a piece of this cake because I'd had a few issues. I went, what are you doing cutting this cake?

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  And I looked at the tag and like Alicia Keys and sent him the cake. And I'm like, oh, he's like, no, man, it's cool. Eat the cake. And I was like, okay. And that was kind of it. And we kind of knew each other from then on. And we had talked a little about music and we talked about doing things together and we're friendly. You know, we went out to dinner a few times. We had this record and the CMAs were coming up. We got nominated for a few things and they were going to offer me a slot to play. And Mark was like, you gotta call him and ask him to do it. That's the way you do it.

• 1:05:23Dax Shepard?

  And really quick, so that's my most hated thing in the world is to ask someone for a favor. How easy does that come?

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  But I also knew that she was correct. I said, if there's ever a time, he's going to say no. I was like, hey, man, would you want to come do this? He was like, absolutely. And so we got on the phone with the producer. Time on television is so precious to these guys making these shows. And Justin with a straight face on the telephone, he's like, we need eight and a half minutes, which is an eternity on television.

• 1:05:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  And had he not been on that phone call, that would have been an immediate, absolutely not.

• 1:05:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  But it was just kind of like, yeah, you guys can have eight and a half minutes. So we got eight and a half minutes for what was essentially my first appearance on that show.

• 1:06:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:06:06Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:06:13Dax Shepard?

  Thank you to our presenting sponsor, HP for supporting this episode. Their HP Smart Tank printer is the last printer you'll ever need. Oh, here we go, Monica. With a refillable ink tank and up to three years of ink included. So you get thousands of pages of cartridge free printing. Hallelujah. To learn more, search for HP Smart Tank. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left.

• 1:06:57Dax Shepard?

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• 1:07:41Dax Shepard?

  We get support from ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruiting. So I went down this rabbit hole the other day on real holiday jobs that exist, and I couldn't stop. Somebody out there is hiring a ham glazer, a professional ham glazer. Another place is hiring a lead elf, implying a whole hierarchy of elves I had never even considered. Here's the thing, these jobs need real skills. People like that are hard to find. And whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find qualified people who are genuinely excited about your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/dax. Plus ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first,

• 1:08:26Dax Shepard?

  so you meet the right people faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/dax. At ziprecruiter.com/dax, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 1:08:48Dax Shepard?

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• 1:09:31Dax Shepard?

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• 1:09:55Dax Shepard?

  Now, did you get nervous for that?

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  No, because we rehearsed two days before and we dug in and we had it dialed. It was the best possible version of whatever we could have done. And I knew that he's so pro in his band and everybody, we all dug in and we were prepared.

• 1:10:11Dax Shepard?

  I've heard this from a few people. We had Anna Kendrick on and she was talking about having to do those troll movies. And she went in one time and she had like a really bad cold. And Justin's just like, here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna do this, blah, blah, blah. She was just talking about, to your point, what a fucking pro the dude is. He's been doing it since he was a child and he took it seriously.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And he intuitively knows what to do all the time.

• 1:10:31Dax Shepard?

  Spooky. And then this prick is the best SNL guest, host of all time. Fuck this guy. He's supposed to be good on SNL on top of all this other stuff and dance like that and be good on SNL. But you know, the power of those performances is pretty staggering because also that's the Luke Combs story too. Luke Combs has this performance with Tracy Chapman. That is a big turning point, yeah, for you professionally, that performance?

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  We spent a long time building the fire, but that threw a match on it.

• 1:10:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah, right.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  We had some shows booked on the West Coast and thousand seat theaters and things like that. We'd never played on the West Coast at that point and they were gone like that. Very quickly escalated from that point.

• 1:11:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's funny how many people have this similar story where it's like it feels overnight on the outside. But you're 15 years into it or 12 years into it and you've had a really substantial writing career. So for you, it is incremental, but from the outside, it's like, oh, wow, this is like a light switch.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  That is definitely the view to the passer on the television.

• 1:11:28Dax Shepard?

  Do you think because you had had little tastes of success along the way that by the time this thing came around, you had a little practice? Were you able to take in that moment in the ways that you would like to have?

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  No, we won a bunch of awards and things that I didn't. We weren't supposed to win any of those things.

• 1:11:44Dax Shepard?

  Albums sold 2 million, like everything's fucking on fire at that moment.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was very quickly just a different ballgame. In the moment, there was a lot of celebratory thing backstage. It was a very surreal moment for me and everybody had worked with us and it's an unforgettable. I think everybody who makes a jump somewhere in their career can pinpoint moments and that's definitely one for us.

• 1:12:08Dax Shepard?

  Some people handle it well and some people don't handle it well.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  I don't think I would have handled it well.

• 1:12:12Dax Shepard?

  Had you not been like married and stable and had some practice?

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Or something.

• 1:12:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. I know. You imagine giving yourself that whole experience at 21 years old or any of the ones I had.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  I would be dead.

• 1:12:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it'll burn the whole place down.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  Some people aren't meant to handle that and the universe was looking out for me in that way. But also I appreciate it in different ways than somebody might that was 19.

• 1:12:33Dax Shepard?

  You already made a good living. It's not like you're going to experience money for the first time. You're going to experience a lot more money, but you got to practice with some of the stuff.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  A little bit. What I didn't get to practice for was people driving up to your house or tour bus coming by. That was very hard for me.

• 1:12:48Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, you don't strike me as someone that would love the fame aspect of all this.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  No, I don't enjoy that. I don't enjoy it for my children.

• 1:12:54Dax Shepard?

  You should have done the Kiss version?

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Kiss version?

• 1:12:57Dax Shepard?

  Full paint?

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  Those guys had something figured out. Those guys were marketing geniuses.

• 1:13:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, what you do have going for you is you have this ZZ Top thing, which is you could probably shave your beard at some point and go back to anonymous.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  That's my retirement plan.

• 1:13:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think that's a solid one.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Do you think you're trying to be invisible with your beard and your hair?

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I've had a beard and hair a long time, and I'm sure there is some shield aspect.

• 1:13:21Dax Shepard?

  Some hiding.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Had a grill blow up on me, and it was protective in that way. So it protected me from fire.

• 1:13:26Dax Shepard?

  Wait, you had a barbecue explode?

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:13:30Dax Shepard?

  Did it catch the hair on fire?

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. It took hair off here and hair all the way off this arm. I had a gap in my beard for a minute.

• 1:13:36Dax Shepard?

  Were you lighting it and the gas had built up in it?

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  I was sleepy, and it was a rental house. I thought I had lit it, and I turned them all on. And I was like, oh, shit, I didn't light it.

• 1:13:45Dax Shepard?

  And it just filled that fucker?

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Oh, shit.

• 1:13:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, boy. Loud explosion?

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was dumb.

• 1:13:51Dax Shepard?

  And then you gotta come in and say to your wife, look what I just did.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Dax Shepard?

  And now you gotta worry about me grilling.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Well, then you feel the skin peeling off your face and all that kind of stuff. You're like, oh, shit, I just made a mistake.

• 1:14:03Dax Shepard?

  I wrongly was like, you know, he's got this beard. Anytime someone has a beard, you're like, oh, they're probably covering up stuff. I'm certainly covering up stuff. But I saw pictures of him without the beard, fucking strong chin. He doesn't need a beard. Like, I need it. This bastard's like, he's just sitting on a great chin.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Okay, well, even more reason to me than I think it's an emotional beard.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  You think it's an emotional beard? I'm gonna go ahead and say it is.

• 1:14:27Dax Shepard?

  Did you have any anxiety after Traveler came out and it was so fucking successful and you had such a swell? Did you have any anxiety about, like, the next album?

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  No, but I did have an anxiety around just the amount of attention. See, my goal in making that record was to get to make another record. I had this very indie mentality. It's like, I sell 20, 25,000 records. I can keep playing, and I play pretty good shows, and the world will be all right. People will never say this about corporate entities, but I have to say this about Universal. I had a failed single before Traveler that wasn't on Traveler. And so I just came to Sydney, maybe. We went to lunch, and I said, hey, can I just make a record? I just want to make a record and put it out and go play. That's how I know how to do it. And she was like, okay, that was allowed. And that's not normal process. It's usually like have a hit single and then you can make a record.

• 1:15:21Dax Shepard?

  And the signal that didn't do well, it also was expected to do well.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  I signed a record deal and it was a different head of the company. I made a whole other record previous to that. The head of the label came in to listen to it, sat there, listened to the whole thing. Then he turned around, I love it, but I'm not going to be here next week.

• 1:15:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  And Capitol and Universal kind of merged. Why didn't he even listen to it? Because he signed me. Luke Lewis is a music guy.

• 1:15:43Dax Shepard?

  That was a dumb question, but if you're getting fired.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  I thought it was a really classy move, even though it was disappointing.

• 1:15:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, now that I've thought it through, that was the right move. Yeah.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  You know, when the merger all happened, it was kind of nine months of radio silence for me, which usually when those things happen, you're like, all right, I'm a goner. I'm going to go back to writing songs. And I was pushing 40. I had promised myself I wouldn't tour anymore if I was 40 and not really making a dent. And so Mike Dogg and the new record label head comes in, listens to the record. He's like, I don't hear it. And that was just kind of like, all right.

• 1:16:16Dax Shepard?

  Do you agree with him now? That record exists somewhere.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  It does.

• 1:16:20Dax Shepard?

  Do you think it's much different in quality than your other albums?

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  I made it in a very different way. It was a very built record, more than a live record. I'm playing all the stuff on it. It was a different record. It was where I was at at the time and I don't know that it was bad. I'm not embarrassed of anything on it.

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  Did it dent your confidence at all or no?

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  I mean, I disagreed.

• 1:16:39Dax Shepard?

  That's the preferred outcome.

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  I'm also aware that his job was to run the business the best way that he knows how to run a business. And if that meant it wasn't for him, I missed the mark.

• 1:16:49Dax Shepard?

  So what happened when you played Traveler? Does he come in and sit and listen to Traveler? Do you get to have like a round two?

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  For some reason he was out. He would say, I kind of went around him.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  And we're cool now. Like it's all good.

• 1:17:01Dax Shepard?

  This shit is the same in movies. Like I directed a movie at Warner Brothers. Right before it comes out, they fire the president, they bring in a new president. The new president is not incentivized for the old president shit to work.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:17:13Dax Shepard?

  He's incentivized for his new shit that he greenlit. And you're like, I'm just fucked. They're not going to promote this movie.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Right. It's disappointing. There's a lot of great things that get squashed in regime changes sometimes. And that's just the way it goes.

• 1:17:25Dax Shepard?

  There's more business happening than people realize.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Right. And then the timing of things, there's a great Chris Knight record that came out a long time ago that Frank Liddell produced that I love. But that record came out and then the whole record label shut down, you know?

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  It got kind of squashed, but that was a great record. It just was unfortunate business timing. Things like that happen all the time.

• 1:17:44Dax Shepard?

  Back to your luck thing. Half the game's luck.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  Maybe more than half, you know? I think it's probably 90% luck.

• 1:17:50Dax Shepard?

  The better comp is really, I can't imagine. Are you into Formula One at all?

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  I did do a song for that movie.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, you did. That's right.

• 1:17:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you have a song in F1.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  And I got scared to death. I went to the race in Las Vegas. Why humans want to go that fast? I don't, I don't understand.

• 1:18:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  You're right up on the fence and you're just like, this doesn't feel safe, even for me to watch.

• 1:18:10Dax Shepard?

  No, it doesn't feel like physics would allow for this thing to happen. That's what's cool about it.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:15Dax Shepard?

  You know, a car can't go around a turn at 190 miles an hour, right? It just did.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  But I guess it did.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Have you ever gotten in a car with one of those guys?

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I hosted this show Top Gear for a couple of years. I raced.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  But you drive something like that?

• 1:18:28Dax Shepard?

  I've never been in a Formula One car, but I have ridden with several Formula One drivers in cars. And yeah. Oh, he's going into turn one. You're going, well, he ate the farm on this one. Like, we're not making it through this turn. And then all of a sudden you're exiting the turn. You're like, I don't think that can happen. Physics wouldn't allow. Yeah, there are another, but the reason I think the analogy is good is like, the car unfortunately is 90% of it. But that's not to say it doesn't matter if you're Max Verstappen. It fucking matters. Like he's head and shoulders above, but he needs that 90%. And I think the same is for your thing and my thing, which is like, you gotta be Max Verstappen, but fuck, you need the right car. You need the 90% of luck in friendships and all this other shit.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, the right people around you. I can't say that enough.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  You've said it a lot. I really, really like it.

• 1:19:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I like it too.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  I know we were sitting here talking about the individual thing, but. I do feel like a lot of what I do might put my name on a marquee or on something else. You're talking about, but you wrote the songs and all you're saying all these things, but I didn't record the things. I went in the studio and Vance is sitting there pressing the button. Dave and my wife are telling me when they thought the take was right. I'm not making things without Dave, not really.

• 1:19:37Dax Shepard?

  I've also watched you guys talk to each other and there's definitely some spooky shit going on.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  We understand each other and a lot of weirdo, we're brothers in a lot of ways. And so JT and Derek, you know, the guys have been in my band from day one, played on the records from day one. Those things are important and those things make what we do a lot more special than just my name being on it or whatever I bring to it. The specialness of all those people involved is important.

• 1:20:01Dax Shepard?

  Do you have some guilt about being the name on the marquee?

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  No, somebody's gotta do it.

• 1:20:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  I'm not trying to act like I'm unworthy here or something like that.

• 1:20:08Dax Shepard?

  What I have a lot of is survivor's guilt, which is like, I over the last 30 years, worked with so many fucking brilliant people that didn't get lucky or didn't know the right person on the right day. I was exposed to how many people moved to LA and were talented and worked their asses off. And I have that guilt personally, where it's like, I don't know, man, there were four other guys in my comedy troupe that were better than me and I don't know why they're not rich and it's not fair.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  It's not. The world is not fair and not that I think that that's right, but I'll take it.

• 1:20:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure. And they're gonna give it to someone. I volunteer.

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  I appreciate it. Thanks.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  I'd like it to be me.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm sure I do have some guilt about that.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I don't have imposter syndrome. I just can recognize that these people are every bit as good as me and some better. And it didn't happen and it's heartbreaking. That hurts my soul a little bit.

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  Well, but you know, it's that whole timing thing that I keep talking about and that's luck and that's whatever it is that I do or you do or anybody does that gets lucky and successful. We happen to be filling some need for consumers or for the world at large and that's important too. You can feel gratitude for that and maybe guilt that somebody else didn't get to fill it, but that was our calling.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  That's the way the cookie crumbles.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  And that's okay. I don't think we have to feel too bad about it.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  I don't feel bad about it.

• 1:21:24Dax Shepard?

  You shouldn't and I shouldn't, but I do. It's that simple. I run into dudes that are struggling and I'm like, fuck dude, this is not fair. Like you shouldn't be struggling at all. Just two more career-y questions. One is, I think it's interesting that you've gone in and you've worked with Taylor and Adele and you're on both their albums singing. What is that experience like?

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Some of these collaboration things were things that happened in COVID. They're me on the other side of an iPad screen.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Obviously you get honored when you get asked to be on anybody's record. It was such a compliment, particularly people who are as well-loved as those two ladies.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Did you watch the Taylor doc that just came out?

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  I have not seen. I did go to that show. I took my kids to that show.

• 1:22:06Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  But it was awesome.

• 1:22:08Dax Shepard?

  What a fucking show, Aras.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Oh man, it was crazy. Every song was the production budget of most people's whole show.

• 1:22:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Mine included.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  That's what's so cool about the doc is you really get into the nitty-gritty about the show and how they did it. And it doesn't matter if you like her music or don't like her music. If you don't respect her after watching that, go away.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  No, there's no way. Like, it's an insane amount of work and energy to expend on something, to delegate and to trust and to manage. It's unfathomable.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  Only a handful of people can pull that off and she's one of them.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  The leadership to me was such a huge, it's like what you've been saying about all the people, how many people it takes. She really highlighted that in this. It was about her, but it wasn't about her. It was about the dancers. It was so cool.

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  Cause none of it happens without all those people.

• 1:23:00Dax Shepard?

  I was blown away with the stamina. Like she could fucking go.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  We talked to her briefly after the show and she was like, I would sing the show and run for three hours on a treadmill to get ready for this. It's like, I don't run for three hours on a treadmill.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Ever.

• 1:23:13Dax Shepard?

  Saved my life.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  I know, it's wild.

• 1:23:18Dax Shepard?

  And I just want to thank you. Our whole summer was a song to sing. On the boat, I got videos posted of Kristen dancing to that song. What a song. You know what I love about it too is I think I was in the dark about what a badass Miranda is.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Oh, she's amazing.

• 1:23:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I just was in the dark.

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  She's so great. We've been friends for a long time. She's filled in a few times when Morgan had to go do other things and sing on award shows with me. And we've always written songs together. And when I first moved to town as a songwriter, she cut one of the songs I moved to town with. She cut a song I wrote when I was 18. Nobody's fool. So we've known each other a long time and she's always been really good to me and a great friend. So it was cool to get to do something like that with her.

• 1:23:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's a very full circle. If she sings one of your songs you wrote when you're 18 and then you get to do a song with her.

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Again, those things are more pure and I feel better because they're real things. It's not because somebody threw us together.

• 1:24:08Dax Shepard?

  Some master producer didn't think this up.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Right. It's not something somebody dreamed up. And sometimes those things work out too.

• 1:24:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Your chair, this is the cutest thing. Your mom and dad had a dinette set and then there's a chair that you loved and you have taken this chair with you your whole life.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  That chair moved to town with me. I had a chair and like an army sack full of clothes.

• 1:24:26Dax Shepard?

  Packing up the car, making this chair is really comical.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  It'd fit in the backseat.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Is it wooden chair?

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  No, it's, it's got like a loose side back and it's like chrome. And when I was a kid, the seat was canary yellow vinyl, but my mom recovered it in the eighties and it's very multi-colored tweed or something.

• 1:24:44Dax Shepard?

  It almost looks Missoni, but not, yeah.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  It was your chair?

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Well, it is now. There are three other chairs somewhere. I don't know where all the.

• 1:24:52Dax Shepard?

  I gotta get my hands on one of these fuckers.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Gonna be in the Smithsonian.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Maybe my brother has one. I don't know.

• 1:24:57Dax Shepard?

  But you brought this chair and you've written most of the songs.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  I've recorded in the studio with that chair. That chair comes every time I'm in the studio.

• 1:25:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the chair's everywhere.

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  That's so sweet.

• 1:25:06Dax Shepard?

  And so first of all, it's just very, very sweet. But then I started thinking, are you superstitious? Because you also have, you're playing the Gibson guitar you bought for $400. You're still playing that.

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'm superstitious as much as I'm a creature of habit.

• 1:25:20Dax Shepard?

  It's control, right? It's like all the things I can't control are what they are. And the things I can control, I'm going to control.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  It's a controlled environment thing for sure.

• 1:25:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I sit in this chair, I play this guitar.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  I built, you know, one of the first stages when I had enough of a production budget, I built a giant diffuser to try to control sound on stage.

• 1:25:35Dax Shepard?

  So that you could hear it right?

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  Yes. We have like a patent on it. If you ever look it up, it looks like some kind of Mad Max thunder dome. Crazy to build. All these pieces are like 1,200 pounds a piece. And it's a diffuser that we carried around on stage. And it was so stupid to build, but I had to hear it. I had to see if it would work. Yeah. Because I was trying to control environments because most live environments aren't. Aren't sonically pleasant and I don't use any ears. I use floor monitors and I'm always trying to control the environment in a way that maybe I shouldn't. I gave up on that. I had a different thing that had all these moving motors. That didn't work. I'm all the time drawing shit on napkins and making people who know how to do stuff, try to figure it out.

• 1:26:18Dax Shepard?

  See if it's possible.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  This work?

• 1:26:20Dax Shepard?

  I love also you have, this was fun. People should watch this. This is like your essential things that you care about. This is a video I watched and your dad's knife collection in this knife roll is so special. I got like very nostalgic seeing that.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  What was it about the knives?

• 1:26:36Speaker 02

  Where I grew up, and maybe some in Georgia, I don't know if they do this in Georgia as well. People would give you a knife as a sign of respect and my dad had received a bunch of these knives over the years.

• 1:26:46Dax Shepard?

  They're pocket knives, you know, they're like little pocket knives.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, let's see. Let's get a visual.

• 1:26:50Dax Shepard?

  I was sad when I learned this, that I didn't have time to go out and get a cool pocket knife.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  This is not one of his. I carry things like this.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:58Speaker 02

  I'll rub the back of them. It's almost like it's a fidget toy for me. There's a comfort in it. It's a connection. I have some that belonged to my grandfather as well, my mom's dad.

• 1:27:06Dax Shepard?

  You're the dream dad. I got lucky. My dad collected elephants.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  Elephants?

• 1:27:11Dax Shepard?

  Elephants.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Like actual elephants?

• 1:27:13Dax Shepard?

  Real elephants. No, no, no. Figurines, fucking statues. I don't know. And probably now in retrospect, I don't even know if he liked them that much, but we all believed he liked them. So every Father's Day, every-

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  You got an elephant.

• 1:27:26Dax Shepard?

  You knew what to do. He's like, I gotta go to the mall and find me an elephant and the trunk had to be up. That was good luck.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Where did that come from?

• 1:27:32Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. By the time I'm conscious, I already know my father likes elephants and there's already 10 figurines in the house.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  But you never asked why I liked it.

• 1:27:41Dax Shepard?

  He just said that he learned they were good luck if the trunk was up.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Cause I grew up, my mom had this porcelain elephant.

• 1:27:46Dax Shepard?

  He would have wanted to get his hands on that.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  It looked like a really nice china.

• 1:27:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  Painting green all over. It was like a side table. It had like a table on it.

• 1:27:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it was functional.

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a functional elephant.

• 1:27:57Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, that would have made his year if I could have got my hands on that thing.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  I think that thing's in a storage unit. Hopefully I can find it.

• 1:28:03Dax Shepard?

  But anyways, your boys are blessed because you have four boys and they know you're gonna get a pocket knife.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  You had knives in cars and guitars.

• 1:28:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's great. Of the venues you've played, Super Bowl, SNL twice, talk shows, is there a favorite kind of live experience you've had? Like, Super Bowl?

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  One of those times I felt nervous and I don't often feel nervous.

• 1:28:25Dax Shepard?

  Cause that's a scary song, right?

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  Scary song.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  No control.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  I controlled what I could.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts to that.

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  Well, I made it the least amount of moving parts I could. I'd played it with just me and a guitar. I didn't get the band. I didn't do a pre-tape. I didn't do any of that kind of stuff. And I wanted to go out there and see if I could just do it. And that's nerve wracking for that level of television show to go live, live like that.

• 1:28:49Dax Shepard?

  It's rare you can fuck up in front of 40 million people.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  You can though. I've done it. But yeah, that was special. And I played when the Letterman show was going off the air. And when I was in Still Driver, we got to play on Conan when it was a favorite show of mine.

• 1:29:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay. Now I'm gonna hit you with the weirdest thought I've had through all this reading about you and watching interviews.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:29:07Dax Shepard?

  And listening to your voice a lot. Do you know how the old mining happened, like hydro mining? The way they mined in like the 1800s, you start with a huge diameter pipe. Let's say it's four feet and you're running water through it. And then you reduce that to two feet and that builds pressure. And then you reduce that to a foot and then you reduce it to six inches. And by the time it's coming out spraying at the side of the hill, it's fucking, you know, a bazillion pounds of pressure.

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  I know nothing about that.

• 1:29:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but you get the concept. I was looking at your nose. I'm like, Chris has the cutest little nose for what a big guy is. He has this tiny little nose.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  I did not see this coming.

• 1:29:42Dax Shepard?

  He's got this big chest and he's like this big guy. And it's all starting down here in the fucking diaphragm. And by the time you work all that up and send it through this tiny little button nose, I think that's your magic sound.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  That's a wild theory.

• 1:29:57Dax Shepard?

  It's a huge setup to ask. Have you observed?

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:30:02Dax Shepard?

  Go ahead and respond to this theory.

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  I don't have one. Keep going with your.

• 1:30:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, my theory.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Theory.

• 1:30:08Dax Shepard?

  Your hydraulic mining, that's what you are as a musician. Over these 25 years of sitting with musicians and working with musicians, have you observed patterns? Like, have you noticed weird things like, oh, people with this physicality tend to sound this way? Have you picked up these just from doing it so much?

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  I don't know if physicality, I've picked that up. Certainly where people are from probably plays into how they play. Like, people from New Orleans have a thing. People from Memphis have a thing. People from Florida have a thing. There's a rock and roll thing that happens there. You can't put your finger on them, but you can't say like they definitively have this thing.

• 1:30:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  But they definitely come with a different slant, whether it's the pocket that they play with or the way they hear things or the way they pronounce things when they sing or where they sing things. Maybe that's a pedestrian evaluation of music.

• 1:30:58Dax Shepard?

  It's interesting to say, I'm reading a book right now. It's talking about cities and the magic of cities. And it was using as an example, like, they have tried to start tech companies in New York. They're well financed. They don't work. They work in Silicon Valley. Finance works in New York. Don't really know why, other places have tried it. But there's all these cities who have like signature industries that become their DNA and they kind of can't be done elsewhere.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  I can't explain that.

• 1:31:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's just a fascinating thing that's very similar to this. Yeah, if you're a musician, you're also a product of something.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:33Dax Shepard?

  And can't be replicated. Okay, my last thing I want to say is, what is the current fuel you're burning for creativity? Because I imagine it has to evolve dramatically from arriving here hungry and ambitious and fearful and all these things. You have to evolve as the thing starts working out. There's all these very dramatic youthful things that create art. And as your life stabilizes, which you're trying to get it to do, what drives the creativity?

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  I think it's probably at a bit of a crossroads and then I don't know when I'm going to make another record or write into the song. Probably not really in the mood and that's okay with me. Probably not okay with managers.

• 1:32:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  Fans. And record labels and people like that, but that's okay with me. I don't know how much longer I'll even go play. I don't know. Oh, God.

• 1:32:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, I think he and I are the same age. I'm also really just contemplating what a spectacular life I've had. What do I want the rest of it to be? I want to have made a really thoughtful decision.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to make a thoughtful decision about what I do with the rest of the time that I have on the earth. I got babies. I got some that are almost out of the house and they gave up a lot for me to be sitting here with you and doing things. So I owe them some things, some time in particular. I've done more than I ever set out to do. And I used to say this about playing the Ryman on a tour. My dream used to be to play the Ryman auditorium and sell it out very early. After the Timberlake moment, we played it three nights in a row and sold it out. I said, well, now I have to get a new dream. Yeah.

• 1:32:59Dax Shepard?

  So. What's the new dream phase?

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  The new dream.

• 1:33:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  And I do think it's important to find that. So I think for me, fuel is the search. So I'm gonna have to search for something and I'm gonna have to hunt for something. I don't know what that is or where it's gonna come from.

• 1:33:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, look, I'm in the market for rich friends in their 50s who want to retire and have fun. So I know very few people.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  What are we gonna do?

• 1:33:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I think we're virtually neighbors.

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  I am not in my 50s yet. Thank you very much.

• 1:33:26Dax Shepard?

  You'll be there in two fucking seconds, my friend.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  I'm not saying I'm hanging up my spurs. I'm just saying I'm looking for the fire and I want the fire to lead. That's more elusive now than it used to be.

• 1:33:37Dax Shepard?

  Are you on testosterone?

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:39Dax Shepard?

  Dude, I'm on testosterone.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  How much, man?

• 1:33:42Dax Shepard?

  A little bit.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  Maybe you can back it off a little.

• 1:33:46Dax Shepard?

  Whatever they got. I totally has a nine on the addict scale. No, my numbers are really responsible, actually. But I will say I was having this really crisis eight years ago. I had like directed a movie. It didn't work out. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know. Maybe I did enough.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Well, I do think that I've done enough.

• 1:34:01Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  And it's not about doing something else. It's about. For me, wanting to do something else, I think I owe it to the people who might listen to what I do, or come see me play live, or any of those things that they get 100% of whatever I've got left in me, if they're paying money for a ticket, or a record, or whatever it is, I feel very resolute in that. And if I don't think that I can deliver on that, I have to evaluate that, too.

• 1:34:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna start you on 4 milliliters, 0.4 milliliters.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  No, I like your answer.

• 1:34:30Dax Shepard?

  Now your passion's gonna like shoot back alive.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  We're gonna make six records in a year.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  We don't need manufactured passion, it'll show itself.

• 1:34:38Dax Shepard?

  But you don't even want it for the results, the feeling of I wanna devour something, I wanna conquer something, I wanna take something on, like this is a good feeling, forget the outcome of it. It's like, I like feeling that way.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  Well, you wanna feel like you can.

• 1:34:49Dax Shepard?

  I started feeling like I couldn't.

• 1:34:50Speaker 02

  I have a little of that, I was just like, I don't know if I care about it.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Well, maybe you just need a second. It's okay to take a break.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  No, he needs testosterone.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:34:57Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you your first shot.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  You got some action.

• 1:35:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh man, I'm always.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  Give me some of that testosterone.

• 1:35:02Dax Shepard?

  I always roll it back up. Chris, again, truly, we get to talk to a ton of people. I was just very, very excited to get to sit with you. Of all your stuff, it's just your spirit to me screams out when you perform, and it's just so beautiful. I'm really grateful I get to cross-pollinate.

• 1:35:20Speaker 02

  Man, thank you for having me, and thanks for taking the time.

• 1:35:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  This was really lovely, thank you.

• 1:35:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I want you to have peace and contentment, and I also want you to make 10 or so more albums, so however you accomplish.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  You need me both.

• 1:35:32Dax Shepard?

  However you accomplish both of that. All right, be well. Everyone, go today and buy as much traveler whiskey as you can.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Dax Shepard?

  And fucking let it rip. If you're thinking about quitting, take your tour bus out to the desert with a case of traveler whiskey, and it'll set you straight. Chris, thank you so much for coming, and I look forward to our retirement together.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, sounds good.

• 1:35:57Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for the fact check, so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

• 1:36:05Dax Shepard?

  How you feeling?

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:36:07Dax Shepard?

  Are you tore up?

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  Um, as in like tired?

• 1:36:12Dax Shepard?

  Tired, hungover.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  I'm not hungover at all.

• 1:36:15Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm not hungover. As far as my consumption, I had a teeny at the awards.

• 1:36:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  And then I got one at the Netflix party, but I only had one sip because it wasn't the way I liked it. And then.

• 1:36:30Dax Shepard?

  What was wrong with it?

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  I'm particular.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  I'm particular.

• 1:36:36Dax Shepard?

  What has it gotta be?

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  It's a Hendrix martini.

• 1:36:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Jimmy Hendrix.

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  Lemon twist.

• 1:36:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  No vermouth. Extra bruised, if I can get that. I have to see, I have to see what kind of the environment is, if someone can take that.

• 1:36:49Dax Shepard?

  What's extra bruised?

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  Like shaken, a little icy.

• 1:36:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, like chunky?

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  Some ice shards.

• 1:36:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, ice shards.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  Like just little shards. I like it really cold.

• 1:36:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, there's so much to it. How long did it take them to make this when they do it right?

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  No, if they do it, if they know their stuff.

• 1:37:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Eight to 10 minutes. I'm just kidding.

• 1:37:10Dax Shepard?

  12, 13, I don't know. I did only order one at eight and it arrived at like 8:40 to the table, so.

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  If they're good.

• 1:37:16Dax Shepard?

  I don't know what they're doing, if they do it right.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's fast. But, so there was a really cute little martini bar thing, right next to where we were standing, sitting.

• 1:37:27Dax Shepard?

  At the Netflix party.

• 1:37:28Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:37:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, I'll, I'll get one of those. And I, I was like, do you have Hendrix? And he was like, oh no, they're pre-batch. And immediately I was like, uh oh. And he said, but they're really.

• 1:37:38Dax Shepard?

  The version of like a microwave? Is that like the equivalent, since I'm out of the scene?

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  It's, okay, pre-batch is, you know, they, they make it ahead of time in a big container.

• 1:37:51Dax Shepard?

  Thermos?

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  Where you put your Spaghettios. And then, and then they pour it into glasses for you. A lot of places do pre-batch. That's not for me.

• 1:38:00Dax Shepard?

  You just gave me the best blast from the past memory. Well, I never had that set up, but other kids did. Mothers were at home.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:09Dax Shepard?

  And boy, and they, I swear sometimes they'd pop that lid and there was still steam coming out. And held the heat.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:38:15Dax Shepard?

  This son of a bitch is having a hot spaghetti dinner next to me.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:38:19Dax Shepard?

  Thermos and did you have like the half sized thermos?

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Havesies, yeah. I, I'm, I'm, I'm only saying this because my mom will be mad if I don't say it. Cause you just protected your mom as you should and now I have to protect my mom.

• 1:38:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Cause she also worked. So she would be like, hey, I wasn't, I worked too.

• 1:38:37Dax Shepard?

  Cause you didn't have it either.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  No, I had it, but not all the time, but I had it every now and then.

• 1:38:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  You know, my mom was making me lunch.

• 1:38:45Dax Shepard?

  And your mother really, she also had another person helping her. Make some money and stuff.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Oh, money, yes. So it was like, he didn't help with lunch.

• 1:38:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  As you know, my mom's sick. It was just Subway every day.

• 1:38:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. My mom was overtime queen.

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  I know. And I'm not, I just wanted to be clear. Cause you said, you know.

• 1:39:04Dax Shepard?

  Now I just, I was defending my mother like round two.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  I know. It's a cycle here.

• 1:39:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Nor is she even buying that. Oh no, that's not true. We would get some, I think when we go grocery shopping, there were a couple splurges. David and I could both pick out one two liter of soda occasionally.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:39:20Dax Shepard?

  And then the other thing could be like, I could pick out two cans of Chef Boyardee.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:39:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Ravioli all the way.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  I love the ravioli.

• 1:39:27Dax Shepard?

  I would put it in my mouth and I'd like deconstruct it with my teeth and tongue so that I could like, I would scoop out the little ball of meat with my tongue. Like I really was a psychopath with the way I consumed it and I loved it.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you could have picked SpaghettiOs, but you went ravioli. We, we were mainly a ravioli Chef Boyardee house too.

• 1:39:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, raviolis I believe are Franco American.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought they were Chef Boyardee.

• 1:39:51Dax Shepard?

  They had one, but I don't think it was called SpaghettiOs. I think the trademark Rob, SpaghettiOs is trademark Franco American.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  SpaghettiOs. Uh-oh. Campbell's.

• 1:40:05Dax Shepard?

  Campbell's.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  It's Campbell's.

• 1:40:06Dax Shepard?

  But I think maybe Campbell's bought Franco American since the eighties, nineties.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  It is Campbell's.

• 1:40:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It was Franco American in nineteen sixty-five introduction. Okay.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  When did it?

• 1:40:21Dax Shepard?

  When did it dissolve or get absorbed? By Campbell's Soup.

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  Ring shaped canned pasta was introduced in nineteen sixty-five by the Campbell's Soup Company under the Franco-American brand.

• 1:40:32Dax Shepard?

  Perfect.

• 1:40:32Speaker 01

  So it was, it was a sub-brand.

• 1:40:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, it was under the umbrella. The Campbell's umbrella.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Wow. Anyway, so, um, the batched martini, so he said, I was like, do you have Hendrickson? He said, oh, no, they're pre-batched. And I was like, oh, maybe I'll, and he was like, but they're really, really good. So, you know, he had a lot of investment and pride. And so I was like, sure, I'll do it.

• 1:40:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  And then.

• 1:40:57Dax Shepard?

  You couldn't get through it.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  I just don't know why I drank one sip.

• 1:41:00Dax Shepard?

  Ugh.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 1:41:01Dax Shepard?

  Why don't you switch it to wine or something?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  I know, but then I was like, I don't want to walk all the way to the bar. It felt.

• 1:41:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Triz is really doing it.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:41:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no.

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  It was, it's like, there's a lot of people, you know?

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  Was there a lot of people? Where was it at?

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Spago.

• 1:41:15Dax Shepard?

  Spago.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  Spago.

• 1:41:16Dax Shepard?

  Did they have canned Spaghettios? Is that not Italian?

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  They did, they had some, like, big batched pastas.

• 1:41:23Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, pre-made like the martinis.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Uh huh. I didn't get any, but Rob got some.

• 1:41:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it was, it was good. It was good.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, Spago's good.

• 1:41:29Dax Shepard?

  We went to an event and I was reminded, you know, we went to a party, we all went to a party on Friday night.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  Amazon by Vanity Fair.

• 1:41:36Dax Shepard?

  And Vanity Fair and, um, yeah, I, I keep going to get reminded I'm not a big party person.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  I know. It's fun to be invited, like, it is.

• 1:41:46Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  It's, it's an honor to be invited. It's flattering.

• 1:41:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  And I think it's nice to get cute.

• 1:41:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  Wear cute outfits. But then, when you get there and it's just so loud and so crowded.

• 1:42:00Dax Shepard?

  Very crowded and packed.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  And packed. And then, really, you just end up, like, you, because of the environment, you want to just be with people you know.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  So, yeah, eventful week.

• 1:42:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and then the big day.

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  Big day.

• 1:42:14Dax Shepard?

  Your designer came through.

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  Uh, I was so happy. I was so happy with my dress. Shout out Brandon Maxwell.

• 1:42:23Dax Shepard?

  And they put your name on the inside of it?

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's so sweet.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Stitched my name in there, it's so sweet. Um, it was really cute, too, because a few people who were there.

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  Uh, who listened to the pod.

• 1:42:39Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  We were chatting and.

• 1:42:41Dax Shepard?

  Where, the party or?

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  No, at the show.

• 1:42:44Dax Shepard?

  Golden Globes.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Dakota.

• 1:42:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh yeah, Dakota.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were talking and she was like, is that the Brandon Maxwell? Cause she listened. So like they knew. Mila also.

• 1:42:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, she was on it.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that was cute.

• 1:42:58Dax Shepard?

  My most flattering moment you witnessed?

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:43:02Dax Shepard?

  You almost passed out.

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:43:04Dax Shepard?

  Lincoln, I mean, she screamed at the top of her lungs when I told her this.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  This is a big deal.

• 1:43:11Dax Shepard?

  Hilarious. Jacob Elordi.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:43:14Dax Shepard?

  Um, I turned and I, you know, this son of a bitch is like six, five. He's so gorgeous.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  So gorgeous and so tall. You cannot miss him. He towered over you.

• 1:43:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. And so I just looked at him and I, I said, um, look at this tall, handsome son of a bitch. Not thinking he's gonna know me. And then he said, what was, it's at both times, the most flattering and humbling thing ever.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Dax Shepard?

  He said, oh my God, dude, I've been a huge fan of you my whole life.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:45Dax Shepard?

  I was like, yeah, I bet I've been working since you were born or damn near.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  How old is he?

• 1:43:50Dax Shepard?

  Nineteen ninety seven, he was born, twenty eight. Okay. So he was six when I got on the screen. Yeah.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Dax Shepard?

  It's a nice reminder.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Memories are starting to form.

• 1:44:00Dax Shepard?

  I'm just first met. So for him, yeah, his whole life. Cause that's when your memories kind of start imprinting. Um, so, but I, I took it very well. And then second highlight was I was seated next to Jenna Ortega.

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:44:13Dax Shepard?

  So I got a whole nother two hours to annoy her.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 1:44:18Dax Shepard?

  Cause she was with her mom and it was so cute.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  Cute.

• 1:44:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So I got to know mom really, really well.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:44:23Dax Shepard?

  And I asked her a bazillion questions and it was really fun.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 1:44:28Dax Shepard?

  And then we won. No, we won. Some people don't, some people might think Amy Poehler won and not have read that they did call later and said they missed.

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  There's a mistake.

• 1:44:37Dax Shepard?

  It was like Moonlight, when Moonlight did. Yeah, it's very similar to Moonlight.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Similar to that. No, we did not win. Um, and that's.

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  And they just didn't want to embarrass Snoop, you know, for reading the wrong.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Oh, cause he read the wrong name. Actually, we did an interview with him on the carpet and I said, well, regardless of what it says, are you just gonna say armchair expert? He said yes.

• 1:44:57Dax Shepard?

  I know. And I said, I have cash.

• 1:45:00Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:45:00Dax Shepard?

  I was willing to pay.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  You were willing to pay.

• 1:45:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And then for the record, I just, uh, if, if I, I, and I told Babers, I was like, right from the announcement, if, if we had to get beat by someone, I couldn't be happier that it was Babers.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  I went up to her and I said, how dare you?

• 1:45:17Dax Shepard?

  How dare you?

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  And she was so cute. She's so cute. I just love her so much.

• 1:45:22Dax Shepard?

  And then Nikki Crush, what a job.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  She did so well. She did so well. I love her. I have such an affinity for her. I went to her party after the Netflix party. Then I wanted to show up for her. Um, and, uh, she was so cute. I said, the podcast package was so funny.

• 1:45:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  And her monologue was so good, I thought.

• 1:45:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh my God, it was so good.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:45:47Dax Shepard?

  I was very fatigued though, by the time we got to the show because we had done a lot of press, which A, I haven't done in a while and B, we were navigating this endless share question.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:59Dax Shepard?

  Which requires like that you're.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  Nimble. You have to be really nimble.

• 1:46:03Dax Shepard?

  What I want to say is like, guys, it was funny and a joke. Why the fuck would we post it if we didn't think that? That's what you want to say. And you're not allowed to say that, Monica. No.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  No, you're not allowed to say that, Dax. And you didn't say it.

• 1:46:14Dax Shepard?

  And we didn't.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was glad. Yeah, no, that question came up a lot.

• 1:46:18Dax Shepard?

  Every single interview we did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  As we thought it might.

• 1:46:21Dax Shepard?

  We thought it might. I was like, oh, we'll get hit with that once or twice, but every single one we did.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'm just like.

• 1:46:27Dax Shepard?

  You can almost feel them waiting to drop it. Like, I'm gonna do three nice things.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:46:31Dax Shepard?

  And then I'm gonna.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  It's funny because you know, this is where my, um, PR background comes into play.

• 1:46:36Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Actually, you're expert training. Anticipated like, okay, when is it coming?

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:42Dax Shepard?

  That was nice. That was nice. When's it coming? It's like waiting to get shoved in the back. Like when you're in high school and you're a dude and you you know, someone wants to kick your ass. And you know, people will tell you like, Mike's looking for you.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:55Dax Shepard?

  And you kind of just walk around waiting to just shoved in the back. And that's kind of a just a simmering feeling.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:47:04Dax Shepard?

  Also, who cares? No boo hoo. Just.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  No, no, no. But yeah, no, I mean, speaking of high school, the whole thing is extremely high school on crack. From beginning to end, it's immediately popular kids versus not popular kids. Who belongs here versus who doesn't belong here?

• 1:47:25Dax Shepard?

  The seating arrangement.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:47:27Dax Shepard?

  The arrival stuff.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Okay, so they changed the whole thing this year. That there were stairs, it was intended. Like, we had slots.

• 1:47:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  And you have to arrive during that time.

• 1:47:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  To to do the carpet. And then.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  And even that is a whole thing. It's like only nominees are allowed to go on the carpet.

• 1:47:52Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  And and your your name has to be there, you know?

• 1:47:55Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  And no publicists are allowed on the carpet, right?

• 1:48:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Our slot was really early, but you were going with Kristen, so you were going a little later.

• 1:48:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was really caught.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:07Dax Shepard?

  In the middle there.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  Rob and I went early.

• 1:48:10Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  It took so long to get where we're in eyesight. Like, this is just was all so funny. These are things you don't know when you're watching. I think it's funny, like. We're at a hotel that is in eye line to the Beverly Hills.

• 1:48:26Dax Shepard?

  Where we were staying versus the venue is a nine iron away if you golf.

• 1:48:31Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:48:32Dax Shepard?

  You have to go three miles.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:48:34Dax Shepard?

  Maybe more.

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  I think more.

• 1:48:36Dax Shepard?

  You gotta go all the way to fucking West LA.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Dax Shepard?

  Make a bootleg onto Wilshire.

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  There's like this whole specific way that the cars have to go. And then what I did really, even though it was like frustrating, maybe for people, because it's it slowed everything down. I did like, there was like extreme security.

• 1:48:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, I love that part.

• 1:48:55Speaker 01

  And I was so happy.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  So that was great. But then, yeah, so the whole thing takes so long to to get there. Then you get there and then you have to stand in line for the carpet. So by the time, doesn't matter what time you leave, unless you leave at 10 a.m.

• 1:49:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:11Speaker 01

  By the time you get there, you're not in your slot. So we find, we get to the front of the line and it's me and our Wondery publicist and Adam.

• 1:49:21Dax Shepard?

  Kirsch.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Kirsch, our publicist and Rob and me. And so we're like going up the line and they're ready to like drop me off, right? And then they have to go this other way. So we get there and she's like, to, to our publicist, she was like, are you in the right time slot? And she kind of just says, yeah. And then like is going and then she was like, no, what? Let me see it. And she was like, well, we're not. And she was like, well, then you guys need to go over there. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, over there? And she was like, yeah, there's photo opportunities over there. And I was like, but that's not the carpet? I was like, I just spent my entire, I'm not like, no.

• 1:50:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  And, and she was like, yeah. And she just kept saying, there's photo opportunities over there. And I was like, um, I'm gonna go this way. And she was like, she was like, well, how many of you is it? And I was like, it's just me. And she was like, okay, if it's just you, that's fine. And I was like, I mean, and then, then you are in such a weird headspace.

• 1:50:23Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  Cause it's like.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  You're very insecure. You know, they didn't say that to Emma Stone.

• 1:50:26Speaker 01

  Uh, exact, okay. Well, and, and, and as he should, Stellan Skarsgård's in front of me. He walks right in and is fine and no one's stopping him. And Adam and Leighton are next to me. No one's, you know, and I was like, yeah, it starts immediately where you're just like, oh my God. And then you feel like you want to be like, I'm nominated. I'm not just here. I'm supposed to be here.

• 1:50:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so that whole thing is so interesting. And then you're, that's in your head right before you have to go do these pictures in front of all these people. And it's really, it's really, it's int- I just find it very interesting. And I feel like there's a, there's a story in here. There's a book in here. And then, you know, you, you go down the stairs and sometimes it's like 85 people are taking pictures of someone. And then for, you know, for me, it's like one person and then you're like, oh. It's just like ego hit after ego hit. And, and at the same time, you're like, and I'm here.

• 1:51:22Dax Shepard?

  It's like, do you remember in Indiana Jones, when they're going through the thing and the darts are coming out the wall? Like the blow darts.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  I know, I know. And, and it is really, but then you're also at like, one of the biggest parties in the world. You're invited there. Like, you know, anyway.

• 1:51:40Dax Shepard?

  And wild people are walking by. Sean Penn's walking by. Benicio Del Toro is walking by.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  And that's all amazing and so cool. And I also, I think I said this also when we were talking to someone. It's fun for me. Rob and I were talking about this. We're like, everyone coming down these stairs is someone we've had on this show. Like so many. And that was cool. It's like, we've created something where all these, these people have come and chatted with us. Yeah. So, so it's just wild. And yeah, where the seating is, or when the season is, obviously, we had to deal with a little bit, like, where are you gonna sit?

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So I was supposed to be at the podcast table.

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, with me.

• 1:52:20Dax Shepard?

  And I'm not, not sitting with my wife during also this other added layer of everyone's scrutinizing us.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:52:31Dax Shepard?

  So now I'm not at her table. That looks insane. Shit I would never normally have to even think about.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  I know. But we did some moving around. You came for the category and Anna was next to me most of the time. So we had tons of fun. So, yeah, but it's, it was really, it was really, it was fun. It was a cool experience. I'll never forget it. It was really fun.

• 1:52:57Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by HP. My mental to do list is already full. Fix something around the house, refill prescriptions, remember to text someone back, keep track of a million little life things. The last thing I want on that list is, oh, don't forget printer ink.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  No, it's horrible.

• 1:53:20Dax Shepard?

  It's the bane of everyone's existence. What if you could just take that off your list for years?

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  The dream.

• 1:53:26Dax Shepard?

  That's the idea behind the HP Smart Tank printer from America's most trusted printer brand. Instead of those tiny cartridges that always seem to run out at the worst time, The HP Smart Tank uses a refillable ink tank and it comes with up to three years of ink included. It's built to be simple, the easiest tank printer you'll ever use with the best print quality, period. It's the last printer you'll ever need. I've definitely been in this situation where something that should take two minutes turns into a whole thing. Like I need to print tickets and get out the door, but then I realize I'm out of ink and have to deal with it right then. With the HP Smart Tank, that's just not something you're dealing with all the time. It's one of those things that just works when you need it to.

• 1:54:07Dax Shepard?

  If you want to take one more thing off your mental to do list, search for HP Smart Tank.

• 1:54:18Dax Shepard?

  The biggest event is Lincoln requested that we go back to the go. I was like, oh my gosh, she's got, she's been bit. Okay. So we went, we just got back. Uh, we did four races. First race, eight adults. Last time it was mostly her and I, and then a couple stragglers, but today was, you know, there was track full. She's fucking passing people. Took a turn, collided into somebody, didn't give a fuck, kept it going, finished fourth. Beat her time from last week, brought it down every single session.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  So great.

• 1:54:55Dax Shepard?

  Someone passed her and spun her out and she was livid for 45 minutes. She went and take her helmet off between sessions and she wanted to get back. I was, I'm going to spin. I'm like, wow, this is incredible. Cause when I watched her play soccer, I was like, girl, attack, collide. You gotta, you gotta get over this fear of colliding. Well, it's here. Like within her second time, she was like max going for every pass fearless. Oh, so fun.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  Very fun. Yeah. I just saw her and she was showing me her.

• 1:55:23Dax Shepard?

  Her printouts?

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, really cute.

• 1:55:26Dax Shepard?

  She got into the 26s. She's so excited. She wants it. She gotta get into the 25s now.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  What if she gets in the ones?

• 1:55:35Dax Shepard?

  Then so I was coasting first two races. Of course I got the fastest lap time.

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:55:41Dax Shepard?

  Of course, that's my move over there. And I'm paying attention mostly to Lincoln. Then the third session, and I hadn't been in the same spot of the track. I just told, I get out and I see the printout. I was not first. Well, what the fuck, who's this Patrick dude?

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:55:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, it turns out this dude worked there. He also races Formula Four.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 1:56:01Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, okay, good. I gotta, I got a goal now too.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  So you lost two days in a row?

• 1:56:08Dax Shepard?

  I guess I did.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:56:10Dax Shepard?

  And again, Max didn't win this year and he's the best. So just look at him.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  It is funny when like, you know, when you lose, which I don't have all that much experience with.

• 1:56:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm gonna have to guide you through this experience.

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, it is, it's funny when you look around and you're like, look at all these other people who also did not win.

• 1:56:34Dax Shepard?

  Leonardo DiCaprio didn't win.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  How can you really be upset? You're like, oh my God, these people didn't win too.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and did you see one battle after?

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  The best people and the, yeah, yeah. And like Adam Scott's sitting so close to us and he didn't win. And of course, but it's not because, I'm not saying the person who won shouldn't have won. It's just like, oh yeah, everyone's fucking amazing here.

• 1:56:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:58Speaker 01

  So that is when they're like, you know, when people say it's an honor to be nominated. When you're on the outside, you kind of think that's just something you say, but it is real.

• 1:57:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  It's very real.

• 1:57:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  So, was cool.

• 1:57:11Dax Shepard?

  Very cool.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  Oh no, should I tell people about something disgusting about me?

• 1:57:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure. We love discussing stuff.

• 1:57:19Speaker 01

  This is probably why we lost. I think Eric put a curse on me.

• 1:57:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:24Speaker 01

  When he asked me like, or when he said, you're lucky you don't have dandruff because your hair is so black.

• 1:57:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, and you've been experiencing a little dander?

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  I hate it.

• 1:57:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:57:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  It doesn't really match with what I'm going for in this life. Um, and I really, it's like, starting to make me feel insane, but I am using a new product. Rose, shout out Rose for real. Also, I keep sp-

• 1:57:55Dax Shepard?

  Uh oh, uh oh, uh oh.

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  I also keep spitting because I bit my lip and it's so big and it hurts and now I'm talking bad and I'm spitting and I have dandruff. Who will date me?

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  Everyone, everyone will date you if you let them.

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  Um, anyway, so yeah, so this new product is like an exfoliant scrub, so it helps.

• 1:58:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:19Speaker 01

  Cause one day I was like, what? Like, I was like, what's happened? I didn't, I couldn't even realize it was coming from my head. That's how bad it was.

• 1:58:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  And then I hated it.

• 1:58:31Dax Shepard?

  I have beard dander, so I can relate.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  That's just, I was gonna say, that's just skin.

• 1:58:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, same, same, same, same.

• 1:58:38Speaker 01

  It's all skin. I think it's perimenopause.

• 1:58:41Dax Shepard?

  No, no. It's just dander. Okay, one thing I list, we also went to a thing Saturday morning. We went to a little event.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Oh, we did, yeah.

• 1:58:51Dax Shepard?

  And I went solo. First of all, I was supposed to overlap you and I was writing in the morning and I happened to get on one of those rare things where I was like, couldn't stop, was in the bubble.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Dax Shepard?

  Then went to take a dump, see a text from you, where the fuck are you? And I'm like, oh my God, that's right now.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:09Dax Shepard?

  It was 11.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  And it ended in like-

• 1:59:11Dax Shepard?

  When I read that text and I'm sitting on the toilet and I'm like, oh my God. So I got down there in like 12 minutes.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, good.

• 1:59:18Dax Shepard?

  Hung with the people I needed to hang with and then I was leaving and this needs to be explained. There are fans of which I have endless time for. Then there are dudes who, when they see you going to a place, they go into a printer in the back of their van, they print out posters and then they ask you to sign them so they can sell them. I don't care about those dudes, right?

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  Uh, that's fair.

• 1:59:36Dax Shepard?

  And so I, um, I was leaving and I was going to walk to my motorcycle. It was really close to the front door of this place and there's, you know, these dudes with posters and, um, and I kind of walked by them and I only get like halfway by them and then there's, there's all these TMZ people or TMZ like people there. And immediately one guy starts screaming, share signs, autographs. You fucking sign it swearing at me. Cher signs autographs, which first of all, no, I don't think that's true. Uh, secondly, he's screaming that. And then this woman, she's got a camera filming and she starts going, you still gonna make your 11 year old daughter freezer eggs? And I'm like, what is going on right now?

• 2:00:22Dax Shepard?

  I was saying, it was as if the internet came alive for a second. Like you only really deal with that in writing from strangers on the internet. Dude, it was like straight internet chatter. The worst comments just blasting as I got on my comm, uh, my motorcycle. And you're like, I dropped my glove. Well, fuck, I'm on camera.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  Your glove.

• 2:00:45Dax Shepard?

  You know, for my motorcycle gloves.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  And I gotta bend over and I'm like, I just wanna like get out of there. Yeah. And they're screaming just toxic things at me.

• 2:00:54Speaker 01

  Ew, uh.

• 2:00:55Dax Shepard?

  And I gotta bend over and get my glove. And then I just stopped and I had a big giggle on the motorcycle.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 2:01:02Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, Cher signs autographs. Like it really got me. I'm like, what is this guy screaming?

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  What does it even mean?

• 2:01:08Dax Shepard?

  He's like trying, he knows that's bait, Cher, but then an autograph thing happens. So he's like, he's, he's tying these two messages together. And this girl's yelling about getting my 11. And I wanted to so, you can't say anything, but I wanted to go, I just wanna ask you, do you, do you think they freeze 11 year olds eggs?

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  No, she doesn't.

• 2:01:26Dax Shepard?

  Do you think the question you asked me is a possibility on planet earth?

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  She doesn't. That's the whole thing. They know, they know the reality.

• 2:01:34Dax Shepard?

  They're sitting there.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  They're there to make you mad.

• 2:01:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:37Speaker 01

  That is, that is literally the point of them.

• 2:01:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and they just attack you. I'm gonna even rewind. Thank God, by the way. So earlier I had this other experience where someone, a friend of mine, I look at my DMs and it appears they've sent me a video. So I open up this video and it is this comedian lady making a video about Cher saying the thing. And she's talking about how fucking ugly I am and what a stupid name I have. And it's just, she's letting it rip. I mean, this woman hates my guts. And so I immediately, I'm like, why the fuck did my friend send this to me? Right? And then I realized because the comments that are first under a post are the people you know, right? They so I see, oh, my friend actually defended me.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  He's showing you he defended you?

• 2:02:26Dax Shepard?

  No, just I he wasn't even showing me, but he tagged me. I don't think he realized it was gonna go to my DMs.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Oh, I see.

• 2:02:34Dax Shepard?

  So I'm like, but now I saw this fucking lady spending all this time doing this. And then so I preemptively sent my family a very nice text, all the all my family that loves me and I know will defend me if they see something. I said, Hey, gang, there's a lot of stuff being written about me. And I just want you to know it doesn't bother me. And you don't need to defend me and it'll only give oxygen to the thing. So I'm not saying anyone did anything, just preemptively blah, blah, blah.

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:02Dax Shepard?

  So then I had a chat with my mom like later that day and she goes, I didn't really know what that text was about. So that's why I looked you up and it was like, you know what? I gotta say, I'm fucking proud of you. That's my son. And I'm like, what is she talking about? Literally, I'm like, the Cher?

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:20Dax Shepard?

  And I go, you're you're proud of me? And she goes, yeah, that's such a feminist move. You're gonna get your daughters eggs freeze if they wanted to so that they can be on their own timeline. And I go, hold on a second. That's a story, which I didn't even know.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  Wait, that, yeah.

• 2:03:36Dax Shepard?

  That's a huge story. Did you know that?

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  I I saw it once.

• 2:03:39Dax Shepard?

  I didn't know that.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  But I wasn't the thing I saw didn't say 11 year old. It said the real thing, which is, yeah.

• 2:03:47Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so my mom stumbled upon that stuff. So weirdly, thank God she told me about that thing because if I didn't know that and this stranger just randomly talked about my daughter. The crazier thing I think I dodged a real ball is I was gonna take Delta to that party.

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 2:04:07Dax Shepard?

  But I left so late. I knew I was gonna ride my motorcycle so fast. I didn't want her on back. So I didn't take her.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:13Dax Shepard?

  And she was sad about it and I was sad.

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:15Dax Shepard?

  Um, but fucking thank God, if I was walking out with her and they were doing that shit to her. I do. They're fucking shameless. Yeah.

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:04:26Dax Shepard?

  I don't, I can't predict what I would do. But you can't talk in front of my 11 year old.

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  I know, I know, but I know, but.

• 2:04:35Dax Shepard?

  I just, I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky that.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Dodged, yeah.

• 2:04:38Dax Shepard?

  It was like, oh, now, universe, like, thank god I was late, so that I didn't take Delta, because if that one would have been saying that shit in front of Delta, I just, I don't know if I could have kept my cool.

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:50Dax Shepard?

  And then there would have been another fucking headline that I have my daughters on my motorcycle. And then that would have been the next thing. He rides with his children on his motorcycle.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a, there's an endless, you know, you got it.

• 2:04:59Dax Shepard?

  But I want to say the thing that I said to my family, and then I want everyone to know that I, it doesn't bother me because it is a gift of

• 2:05:09Dax Shepard?

  things having worked out for me.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:11Dax Shepard?

  The more it works out for you, the more that's gonna happen. And I just remind myself, like, this is just a symbol of, like, you got fucking lucky. Things have worked out for you. Look, in the past, I haven't had a great, healthy attitude about this kind of stuff, but I currently have a lot of peace with it, which is, uh, I'm grateful for.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  Okay, we're gonna do some, this is for Chris Stapleton. Great. So exciting. Huge get.

• 2:05:34Dax Shepard?

  Now would be a great time to say that I cannot stop listening.

• 2:05:40Speaker 01

  He's the best.

• 2:05:40Dax Shepard?

  To Steel Drivers, his first band.

• 2:05:43Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:05:44Dax Shepard?

  Uh, Heaven Sent. What a fucking song.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  He's so good. He's just so good.

• 2:05:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Speaker 01

  I'm really lucky that we got to interview him. We've been trying for a while.

• 2:05:55Dax Shepard?

  A while, no.

• 2:05:56Speaker 01

  So it was very exciting. Um, not very many facts.

• 2:05:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Just a few. What is the population of Staffordsville, Kentucky? Small. 2,625 people.

• 2:06:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so kind of Milford size where I grew up.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Really small.

• 2:06:14Dax Shepard?

  Small stuff.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  Okay, what is the industrial cable side of the Pirelli company, the one his dad worked for? In 2005, Pirelli sold its cable division to Goldman Sachs, changing the new group's name to Prismian? Prismian?

• 2:06:31Dax Shepard?

  Don't recognize it.

• 2:06:32Speaker 01

  P R Y S M I A N.

• 2:06:36Dax Shepard?

  Wouldn't even try to say it out loud.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  That's tough. I'm gonna go with Prismian.

• 2:06:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't know if that was the right name to go with.

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe it was someone's last name.

• 2:06:46Dax Shepard?

  Maybe that's a well-known term within cabling.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe. Oh, speaking of. Today, which you posted, but today connections was exciting.

• 2:06:58Dax Shepard?

  Why not? Why not? We love you.

• 2:07:01Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't know. I don't know. It is a phrase.

• 2:07:04Dax Shepard?

  What do you mean you don't know?

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  So it could, it could also be just cheeky as a phrase. It might not be about us.

• 2:07:10Dax Shepard?

  Monica.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  We're making some assumptions.

• 2:07:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I feel very, I don't even feel cocky about saying that.

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  I, I don't know. I wish she would tell us.

• 2:07:20Dax Shepard?

  Maybe next, the next clip will be you are right.

• 2:07:25Dax Shepard?

  Monica's wrong. Dax is right. Trying to put Dax in one of these. You can't, there's no.

• 2:07:30Speaker 01

  They can make it about chairs.

• 2:07:32Dax Shepard?

  Anything. Oh, that's right. Or the German Stock Exchange, maybe? Or like the D's are replaced with X's in these four words.

• 2:07:40Speaker 01

  It could be for facts.

• 2:07:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Like types of machines, but the first letters change.

• 2:07:46Dax Shepard?

  Ah.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  I don't know if it was real or not real. I don't know if it was for us or not for us, but regardless, we took it as a big win.

• 2:07:52Dax Shepard?

  I'm taking it as the consolation prize for sure.

• 2:07:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that it was exciting. Oh, how old was Chris when he wrote the song Hire? He wrote it 23 years ago, 20 years before the album came out in 2023. He's currently 47, so he would have written it at 24.

• 2:08:09Dax Shepard?

  24. Great age. I was really in my stride as a party animal at 24.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  24.

• 2:08:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was like developing, you know, I had like, anyway, booze is I like.

• 2:08:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:08:22Dax Shepard?

  Drugs I was partaking in, you know, really it was working.

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  You knew your cocktail, like I know mine, my, do you remember it?

• 2:08:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes, your Hendrix martini bruised.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Lemon twee.

• 2:08:35Dax Shepard?

  Lemon tweeze.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I don't like all of them.

• 2:08:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I love them.

• 2:08:39Speaker 01

  I want to like them.

• 2:08:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they look good, don't they?

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're on my top foods that I wish I liked, but I don't.

• 2:08:46Dax Shepard?

  Do you try? Because I.

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  I do. I keep trying.

• 2:08:48Dax Shepard?

  You do? Okay, great. Because I've had a lot of things flip.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:52Dax Shepard?

  Cottage cheese.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:54Dax Shepard?

  Always looks so good.

• 2:08:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:08:55Dax Shepard?

  I would take a bite. This is terrible.

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:08:57Dax Shepard?

  And then I took a bite one day. I was like, fuck, this is good.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 2:09:01Dax Shepard?

  Coffee. You're like, ugh, shit's bitter. And one day you're like, this stuff's delicious.

• 2:09:05Speaker 01

  I know. You're right. But I keep trying and every now and then I'll just eat it.

• 2:09:11Dax Shepard?

  Now, I'll be specific. I like the purple ones, the purple and dark ones.

• 2:09:15Speaker 01

  You don't like greens?

• 2:09:16Dax Shepard?

  I'm not wild about the green ones. So have you fucked with the purple ones?

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, they get put on, they get put on stuff.

• 2:09:22Dax Shepard?

  Do you know what my gateway was? I remember the day and place.

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:25Dax Shepard?

  Where it turned.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:27Dax Shepard?

  Was I hate olives, I hate olives, I hate olives. I was with my mother doing legwork at the Biltmore Hotel in Phoenix, Arizona, or Scottsdale.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:09:35Dax Shepard?

  And we went out to eat with the client for lunch and they put an olive topinot on the table.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:09:41Dax Shepard?

  And I sampled that olive topinot and I was like, hold up a second. What is this goulash, this slurry? And I fell in love with topinot, which then led to me being able to eat them in the raw. I know, I'm probably not saying it right.

• 2:09:55Speaker 01

  No, you are, I think. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  No, it's just.

• 2:09:58Dax Shepard?

  So try an olive topinot.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:10:01Dax Shepard?

  That might get you. That's what got me.

• 2:10:03Speaker 01

  Do you like black olives?

• 2:10:05Dax Shepard?

  I like the purple ones. That's what's generally in a topinot.

• 2:10:09Speaker 01

  But what about if you order a pizza and it has olives? It's normally black.

• 2:10:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I would never order pizza with olives.

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:10:15Dax Shepard?

  I would just eat the purple ones raw or eat a topinot. And I'll have a gallon of topinot. And you know, my own favorite restaurant, R I P, Tropicale.

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  Oh, Tropicale.

• 2:10:25Dax Shepard?

  Tropicale, they made a topinot that'll, oh.

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  I wonder if I ever had that topinot.

• 2:10:34Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go find myself a topinot tonight.

• 2:10:36Dax Shepard?

  You should.

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  And I'll report back.

• 2:10:38Dax Shepard?

  They're, they vary a lot in their quality, I'll say.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  It doesn't really make sense because I love salt.

• 2:10:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and it's, and it's baked in olive, you know, not baked, but it's, it's soaked and marinated in olive oil.

• 2:10:49Speaker 01

  I love olive oil, which is also makes no sense. I love olive oil. I like capers, which are basically olives.

• 2:10:57Dax Shepard?

  I like capers.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  But why? I don't know.

• 2:11:00Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, I hope this will be your gateway.

• 2:11:02Speaker 01

  Okay, 2026.

• 2:11:04Dax Shepard?

  Year of the topinot.

• 2:11:05Speaker 01

  Okay, love you.

• 2:11:06Dax Shepard?

  Love you.