KHC 165 - Jelly Roll

Jelly Roll - American rapper, singer, and songwriter from Nashville, Tennessee. Jelly rose from underground hip-hop roots to mainstream success in country and rock music, known for his raw, autobiographical lyrics about addiction, redemption, incarceration, and personal struggles. Join Cam and Jelly Roll for a conversation about Jelly Roll’s weight loss journey, thoughts on his first time bowhunting, and some stories that've never been told! You don’t want to miss this episode. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Jelly Roll: https://www.instagram.com/jellyroll615/ Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Hunting Quail as a Kid & the Tail of 2 Men 00:05:13 – Charges as a Kid & How Having a Daughter Changed Jelly’s Goals 00:09:55 – A Great Personality, Singing in Prison, & Housing Dice Games 00:15:28 – Confidence from Family Values 00:18:47 – Who Cam is as a Person to Jelly Roll & Believing in Others 00:27:36 – Faith in God, Jelly’s Parents, & Mother Issues 00:37:46 – The 48 Laws of Power & Growing into a Life of Love, & Jelly’s Dad 00:44:04 – Christianity Today & How Faith is Growing in More People 00:52:19 – Seeking Validation from Efforts & Having a Positive Attitude While Learning 00:59:16 – Manifesting Change & Winning Little Battles to Bigger Changes 01:10:45 – Moments as a Father & Reaching People with Negative Mindsets 01:22:25 – What Got Jelly Roll into Bowhunting 01:32:53 – Learning New Skillsets, Lessons from Bowhunting, & Nature Waking Up 01:44:50 – The Payoff of Getting on the Right Path and Being Accountable 01:52:55 – Realistic Goals for Yourself: Doing What You Say You’re Going to Do 02:04:21 – Winning the Battle at the Table: The Battle with Calories 02:06:54 – The Music Man: Identity, Learning Music, and the Power in Music 02:18:17 – What the Grand Ole Opry Means to Jelly 02:27:07 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free ShippingHoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammering Collective and I am with Jelly Roll.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Boom, baby! My first ever hunt.

• 0:23Cameron Hanes?

  On the Keep Hammering Collective. We've been wanting to do this for a long time.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  A long time, dude. And the fact it would be serendipitous or God more divinity that we'd be doing it on my first hunt. That's, that's the coolest part.

• 0:33Cameron Hanes?

  Can you believe this?

• 0:34Speaker 01

  It's that dude, us holding out to do it was right.

• 0:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I know.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  This is just how it's, how it was meant to be, but you are a bow hunter.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  I'm a bow hunter, dude.

• 0:44Cameron Hanes?

  What, how, how crazy does that feel?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Dude, we've been talking about it nonstop. I've never, it's like, y'all joke, we all laughed about it last night, but it's like, when you let that shot go, it's up there with the feeling you get of childbirth. You know what I mean? Of like wedding vows, like the I do moment. These are those moments in life that create those kinds of feelings. It's a life-defining moment, dude. It truly, in every way. And I also understand how you became an author now. Like, I've learned more lessons in five days in a blind with you, in nature, than I have in a year of traveling the world. You know what I mean? Like, just there's, there's a lesson. Would you, how do you, what'd you say yesterday? It was so poetic. It was, everything matters?

• 1:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Like, was that what you said exactly?

• 1:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, everything matters.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Everything matters.

• 1:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Like, it is so deep, dude. It's, it's such a mixture of randomness, everything mattering, still needing a lot of luck and favor in your way, understanding. Dude, I'm laughing about wind. You know, I mean, it's just, everything about this is crazy. For those watching at home, this is my first time hunting, so ever. And I'm doing it with a bow. I hunted when I was young, you know, as like child.

• 1:53Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  With my, on my uncle's farm, but never like really hunted. You know, here I am, a 41-year-old man that's owned a bow for six months.

• 2:00Cameron Hanes?

  Did you, uh, when you were a kid, so you'd get in the tree stands and then you guys would rifle hunt?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05Cameron Hanes?

  Just kill like does and anything that came, came by, basically?

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could down anything. And my uncle had, actually, my uncle was a big quail hunter for a long time. He had a bunch of quails back when Tennessee used to have a lot of natural habitat for quails. So he would just, he had a whole ton of them on like five or 600 acres. So he would have quail hunts all the time. My dad would go out there. I think I've told you the story, but I don't know if I've shared it publicly besides on my Instagram is that, oh, this will be fun to talk about now. So my father and my uncle were the tale of two men in a way, you know, two men that grew, there's a story that's said in therapy that there's five people, two people, four people can grow up in the same household, have three or four totally different experiences, stories, traumas, victories, you know what I mean?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  And they were best friends though, all the way to the day my daddy died. My daddy took over their grandfather, their father's business, my grandfather's business. My uncle was just never into the meat business like that. He was honest about it. He was just way more entrepreneurial.

• 3:01Cameron Hanes?

  Was it meat, like butchering?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, we did one thing about it. So we stayed away from the cutting of the cows.

• 3:06Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  We just liked to sell them after they got cut. That's what my daddy used to say. We're not a butcher man. That's one thing we don't do. We don't cut cows. We sell them. But it was a wholesale business. It started as a small sausage company. They would, they would pack their own sausage. Now that's back when Big Buford, my grandfather would grab, he would, he made their own sausage recipes, cut the pigs and everything.

• 3:23Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  It was famous.

• 3:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, my, my, uh, my uncle Buford's Ted to this day that you ever heard of Jimmy Dean sausage?

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  They believed the D4s could have been Jimmy, could have been competitors with Jimmy Dean, you know, had Big Buford lived long enough to see that legacy through.

• 3:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  And then my father came in and immediately started seeing small grocery stores and small independent, um, restaurants launching everywhere. So he was like, we should wholesale this and sell more than pork out of the back of one truck.

• 3:48Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  So he turned scaled it into a multiple truck business and he was, he was, he was a meat salesman and he did really good with it. But my uncle was just real entrepreneurial, you know what I mean? Just immediately kind of got into it really strong and investment was really financially responsible. My father not so financially responsible.

• 4:05Cameron Hanes?

  So that was the difference.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Biggest difference. Yeah. But my father not so, and uncle, Uncle Buford ended up earning a lot more over the years because of his financial responsibility and can make better investments. So my father would take us out there to the uncle's farm. You know what I mean? And it was like leaving the neighborhood that we lived in and going to this farm couldn't have been two further experiences.

• 4:24Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  So you were in this neighborhood, you were petrified of guns, but in this neighborhood, you were given one and you were taught to shoot and cook it. You know what I mean? And cut it. So it was just such a, a cool thing to see as a child.

• 4:39Cameron Hanes?

  So was it, where'd you live in town, like in the city?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm in Nashville. So I'm in Antioch, Antioch, south of Nashville, 30 miles. It's like a.

• 4:48Cameron Hanes?

  Like how big a city?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh dude, like a couple hundred thousand people.

• 4:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. It's like, I tell people I'm from south Nashville, but I'm actually from, I'm from Antioch, Tennessee. That's why I represented so hard. Cause when I had to write my mama letters from jail, unfortunately that wasn't part of my story. I had to write them to Antioch, Tennessee.

• 5:02Cameron Hanes?

  There's Antioch in the Bible.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's an Antioch in the Bible, one in California. They all feel similar, by the way. You know what I'm saying?

• 5:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you'd come out of the city and go to the country.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:14Cameron Hanes?

  And yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  And then I started getting in trouble, you know, 12, 13 years old and that quit happening because I was incarcerated. So from, you know, the story, 13 to 24, pretty much, I was just a complete like lowlife human.

• 5:27Cameron Hanes?

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• 6:07Cameron Hanes?

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• 6:46Cameron Hanes?

  of this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had for the past two seasons, head to SigSauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binos. See more, hunt harder. What happened at 13? Was it stealing stuff or what?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  It started shoplifting at 12, caught my first case, just like whatever the local best buyer record shop. I think I stole from a record shop. It was a best buy though or something. No, it was like some merch though. Like some band merch or something like that. You know what I mean? Like just like a cool hoodie or something. I was just looking for like cool. I don't know. And then there was a lot of drug dealing in my neighborhood. I felt like it was very defined by drug users and drug sellers. You know what I mean? And I remember the drug sellers had girls and cars and the drug users didn't. You know what I mean? And I would end up still getting addicted to drugs later in life, but in that moment I chose the hustle. And I wasn't necessarily great at it in my youth. So then I took other routes and made really bad decisions and I went and robbed somebody and that's when I got charged as an adult, which is why.

• 7:52Cameron Hanes?

  How old were you there?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I was 16 years old when I committed the crime. And I was charged as an adult then, which is why you got me into hunting because I can't rifle hunt, which is why the story of my childhood hunting ends there.

• 8:05Cameron Hanes?

  Did you have a gun in that?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I did not have a gun, but a gun was used in the robbery and I was with the people with the gun. I had bad intentions. That's for sure. That's what I, you know what I said at my own pardon hearing? I had my own pardon hearing, Cam Haynes, to go in front of the parole board again to see if they'll recommend you for a pardon before it goes in front of the governor. And the first thing they asked me was, was you carrying a gun that night? And I was so proud of this because I've thought about this for years if anybody ever asked me that. And I said, no, I wasn't carrying the gun, but I was just as guilty as the person with the gun. Like, it doesn't matter. I knew he had a gun. I agreed to this. I, I, I might as well have had the gun. You know what I mean? In fact, if anything, I'm glad he had the gun because God knows I wasn't stable enough to have one. I might have overreacted in the moment and made this a bigger charge.

• 8:49Cameron Hanes?

  So that probably screwed your case, basically, by being honest.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  It doesn't help. That definitely doesn't help. You know what I mean? But it's like, I'd rather just be honest and say, you know what I mean? Like, don't, and don't give me grace because I didn't have the gun because like, I should have had the gun. I, I probably would have killed the guy. You know what I mean? Like, I just totally was not in a space to, you know?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  But that's that extreme ownership. It's kind of been the biggest part of my life change.

• 9:12Cameron Hanes?

  Is that, uh, I mean,

• 9:15Cameron Hanes?

  the Jelly Roll I know is like painfully always telling the truth, even if you don't want to. And it sounds like you did that. Have you always been?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  No, no, that, oh, here goes the reverse of that. My first parole hearing ever I ever had, I was incomplete to now. It was everybody else's fault. I wasn't even actually there, I don't think. I think this whole thing was blown out of proportion and I should have been home forever ago. I'm a victim in this case. I was the victim in every case. My default was lying and my other default was I am the victim. How can I circle around this being anybody's fault but mine?

• 9:49Cameron Hanes?

  You know, a lot of people get in trouble, have that, that mindset.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Dude, it's such a, well,

• 9:55Speaker 01

  it's a, it's hand in hand. Like, they should recognize that. That's what it took for me to hand in hand was like, why do I keep putting, why do I keep feeling like I keep presenting myself as a victim and stuff? That I'm clearly the, the agitator of, you know what I mean? Like, I was, it was me all along.

• 10:10Cameron Hanes?

  Did anybody ever say that or was it just a self-realization?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  It was self-realization.

• 10:14Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  I don't think when you're that lost in yourself, that somebody could be like, hey, man, you're really lost in yourself. And you'd be like, me? Lost in me?

• 10:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But it was like more of a, it was the day my daughter was born. Whenever I looked around and I was like.

• 10:30Cameron Hanes?

  I remember seeing that on your, on that documentary.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  For sure. I was like, I have nothing to. I have nothing to be proud of here in reality. You know what I mean? It's like the, when you have nothing like to be responsible for, you could be proud of anything, right? Yeah, I got a bag of chips, which in jail, I was proud that I had a bunch of bags of chips and a bunch of soups. And I ran the poker table. You know what I mean? Like, I was proud of this. Then you have a little girl and all of a sudden you're like, dude, I'm proud of owning a hundred dollars worth of street food in a jail right now. Like, this is my biggest victory in life and my ego is hung on it. Like, I walk around here like these big bucks. Every day, I got the most commissary. Anybody need a soup? Come talk to me. You know what I mean? Like, it was.

• 11:11Cameron Hanes?

  I run this shit.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, how corny.

• 11:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Like, when you look at it, like, whoa, man, how lost was I really care to think that was, you know, like, you look back now.

• 11:21Cameron Hanes?

  It's a win somehow.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, somehow, like, I was in a triple loss category and having the little girl made me realize that. And I was like, dude, I'm responsible for this human? And the only thing I can halfway manage is a poker table in jail and I'm proud of that? I'm like, this is, I gotta do something, man.

• 11:37Cameron Hanes?

  Did, uh, so what jail life, though, were you like, popular in that? Cause it seems like you're always the life of the party. You're, you're good at, uh, I mean, you can entertain, you can sing, you got great stories. What, that was like you were, were you a celebrity in jail somehow?

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Kinda, I think, so I think I might have developed the skill in being in jail for so long. Is that, you know, all you have in there is stories and personality.

• 12:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? That's all you have.

• 12:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Uh, ultimately, you know, so you sit around and you gotta find a way to entertain each other, so. And I would, you know, I was still rapping a lot and making music and I sung the choruses. So I'd always do like freestyle Fridays in the unit and I'd always be the one to kick it off and get everybody going. So, yeah, that's always kind of been a part of my.

• 12:21Cameron Hanes?

  What they want you to do, like?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Oh, they'd gasp me. They'd come knock on my cell door if I was sick on Friday, like, bro, we don't care if you're sick or not. You're finna come out here and get this thing going.

• 12:28Cameron Hanes?

  So you had to put on shows.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Dude, all the time. They'd come knock on the door like, dude, you got to come out here.

• 12:32Cameron Hanes?

  And then is that how you'd get all the commissary?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  For sure. Also with the poker too. So I had a, when I was on the streets, I would, I would house dice games. Cause my guy Jazz, who signed me to one of my first deals ever, like invested in me when I was not worth investing in him. I was like a 16 year old, 17 year old kid out on bail. But he would let me, he would teach me how to house these dice games and he had a studio. In the days that other people wouldn't show up to the studios, I'd go in there and write songs, but the days the other artists-

• 12:58Cameron Hanes?

  What does house the dice games mean?

• 13:00Speaker 01

  It's like when you're the house, ultimately you're making sure all bets are there, all bets, you're the casino.

• 13:04Cameron Hanes?

  You're taking the money. Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yep. And you just get a rake of it.

• 13:07Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  So it's just free money. You don't put no money in. You're just housing the dice game.

• 13:11Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  But once I learned it, it was a hustle. Well, it didn't start by housing the dice game. It started by them giving me like, this was even cooler. They would give me money to go, the dudes that were gambling big would give me money to run to the store. So I'd just sit around all day. I did this at Street Flavor Records. I was famous for this in my city. Where I would just sit at studios all day and just be like, I'm just here. If it opens up, I'm willing to rap or sing if you'll let me and I'll pay for the time. But if not, I'm just, I'm an accessory. Can I hang out? And I would just hang. So I'd be like the Aaron kid, like he'd be like, yo, go to the, and I was broke. So I'd be like, I just got out of jail or juvenile. And they'd be like, here's a hundred dollar bill. Go get seven juices and six cigarettos and keep the change. These were big drug dealers. I was like, dude, I'm gonna make $65 walking three streets down. This is crazy.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  So I kind of took that back to jail when I went back in. I was like, okay, cool. I'm just gonna house the poker game. You know what I mean?

• 13:57Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  I'll deal them. You know what I'm saying? I'll make sure everybody's square business. Yeah, for sure. It's just, I'll just kind of stay out of the game.

• 14:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I didn't have to assume any risk and they knew I was a straight shooter.

• 14:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  So that helped, you know?

• 14:10Cameron Hanes?

  Do you, I mean, I, I've heard this before, or I don't know, maybe seen it, but do you think people like, because that is sort of success in jail in its own way? And you were like, you were like successful in jail.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:25Cameron Hanes?

  Do people? Like that's as close to their success as they're gonna get. So they'd rather stay there than be outside and have to start all the way over the bottom and be like, I'm probably not gonna get a chance anyway to do it right. So jail's better, best for me.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  I'd rather be the best here.

• 14:41Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Than be the worst anywhere else.

• 14:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of that, believe it.

• 14:44Cameron Hanes?

  Is there? Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Where for me, it was a little different. It lit a fire in me. When I left jail that time, I was like, maybe I'm onto something.

• 14:50Cameron Hanes?

  When your daughter was born?

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and not even just the daughter. Like, I started having inmates singing songs back to me, where I'd like have a song like, um, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I'm stressed out. I'm just thinking about home. Man, I wanna go home. I feel so alone. Oh, I'm stressed out. Or so I had this song like that. It was like this kind of melody I would do and when I, and they're like, so they would sing it in other units. Like, and right then I was like, okay, this could be something.

• 15:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Like, this is happening. This is more than just people liking me in the unit because I stay out of the way and make everybody money. You know what I mean?

• 15:25Cameron Hanes?

  But that's singing, you said rapping.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but I would sing the choruses too.

• 15:29Cameron Hanes?

  Would they, okay. So you do both in jail? What'd they like best?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was my songwriting. They just loved the songs. So it was like, I thought they loved the rapping, but in hindsight, I think they just loved the singing. Cause that's what they'd sing in the hallways. But you know, for me, I thought I was a bad singer. And my thought process was when I get home, somebody will actually sing this stuff. So imagine a girl singing this.

• 15:49Cameron Hanes?

  And then, is that what your thought was? You'd write it, sell it or something?

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, or I'd, I'd do the raps and I'd get somebody who could really sing the thing. I didn't think I could sing. Yeah, I say this and people think I'm joking, Cam. I did not think I could be a singer. Like, it was the last thing on my mind.

• 16:02Cameron Hanes?

  Listening to you talk about music, I mean, you got music man on your forehead.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Cameron Hanes?

  Like, but you know music. I didn't realize you knew music to this depth.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:11Cameron Hanes?

  You know, you start, you talk about this jail stuff and people think, oh, it's just surface music and yeah, he's got a nice voice, but you know music.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. I love music, dude. I'm a human jukebox.

• 16:21Cameron Hanes?

  Is that, is that, I mean, is it just natural that?

• 16:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:24Cameron Hanes?

  First it was passion, obviously. But how do you learn? So it wasn't, there's no formal education.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:33Cameron Hanes?

  It's just being, just being immersed in it.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  It's being completely immersed in it, immersion, kinda like what, what you got me doing here.

• 16:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And this goes back to a theme that'll run through this podcast. I hope that'll inspire people of like, don't be afraid to go be the worst at something again. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't afraid to walk into a room and be like, I'm not a good singer, but I try to sing. You know what I mean? And be like, I'm gonna be the worst singer in country music. And I knew that the first couple of years, I'd be probably one of the worst singers. I thought, at least in my mind, I thought I would. And I was prepared for that because I knew that if I stuck with it, you know what I mean? That I could only get better. Like, I could prove my value and my stand power here because I'm a good songwriter and I think my voice is cool.

• 17:09Cameron Hanes?

  When did that confidence come to, to believe in yourself? Because it sounds like in life, did you always sort of believe in yourself? Or when did the belief to, to be like, yeah, I can't sing, but I'm gonna get better and I'm gonna give it my all? That takes confidence.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:26Cameron Hanes?

  When did that, when did you get that?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Nobody's ever asked me that, dude. Thank you. I, I, give me a second to actually chew.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  I would say that I always knew, even in my worst, the values my father instilled in me. Like, I always knew that even when I was at the lowest of the humankind, that if nothing else, I believed in myself that, that my family had instilled enough stuff in me to get out of it eventually.

• 17:50Cameron Hanes?

  Through, through words?

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, just in general. Like, I just felt like I had, I knew if nothing else, that my ego, if I could kill it, I would just be willing to go work on the meat truck. You know what I mean? I knew that if I would kill my ego and really show up sober, my uncle would let me work at the dry cleaner.

• 18:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And I didn't know where it would go from there. You know what I'm saying? So like, when you have that and you're coming out of jail? And you really wanna do it right? Then you have a landing pad a little bit. You're like, you know what, man? I'm fixing to go like, all out on this music thing. You know what I mean? But I truly think that it was like early development of just Christian values too, of just like the family, just like praying at dinner and just like always having this. Reading the word in jail over and over again, even though not living it is still kind of digesting it and it's going in and it's like, what's going in, the body's coming out.

• 18:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  We've talked a lot about that recently.

• 18:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So it's like just digesting this stuff, but I think I just got the confidence slowly as things started working, you know, um, I looked at little wins really dramatically big. When I launched my YouTube channel, like a hundred subscribers to us, we celebrated.

• 18:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  We had a party. You know, a thousand, partied again. 10,000, another party. 20,000, party. 30, party. 50, party. You know what I'm saying? Like, we partied every time that channel went a lick up, you know?

• 19:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Celebrate the big wins and the little wins.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Little wins too, dude. It's like to this day, I'm not on social media, but our birthday post did like incredibly well. Whenever you came and ran with me and like my, my dude, my social media dude called me, we're celebrating.

• 19:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Like, that's huge for us. You know, I called you excited. I'm not like a analytic guy, but like, I'm like, dude, cause I know what that really means. Somebody, somewhere that's been through what me and you have been through, that didn't think we could be anything other than a [bleep] up.

• 19:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Heard, watched that video, put on a pair of running shoes for the first time in their life and said, "Hey baby, I'm walking to the [bleep] mailbox and back."

• 19:41Cameron Hanes?

  I think more than somebody.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 19:43Cameron Hanes?

  I think a lot of somebodies.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  That's the magic, right? You know what I mean?

• 19:47Cameron Hanes?

  You, you have such a way to connect with people. And that's why I, I'm sure that's what it was like in jail, cause it's just like, it feels like that's just who you are. For whatever reason, you have a way to just connect and, and impact people. And as we know, you can be a leader negatively or positively, you know? And you have something about you. So if that's negative, there's going to be people you're gonna hold negative. But if it's positive, like on the run, that's gonna, you know, have a, give us fruit for our labor, right? For, for our sacrifice, for our message, for whatever else. And I saw a lot of people that took that fruit and they're, they're running with it because you just give them so much hope.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Should we do it right now?

• 20:29Cameron Hanes?

  What's that?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Well, we decided to do in the blind yesterday, that you blindly signed me up for in the blind and I couldn't say no, cause I had a free day on the calendar.

• 20:36Cameron Hanes?

  I, I say we do it.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  If you believe in me, I believe in me.

• 20:38Cameron Hanes?

  I say we do it.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  So what, you got, is it the 18th?

• 20:41Cameron Hanes?

  It's a... Beginning of March, I can't remember.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Was it eighth or eighteen?

• 20:44Cameron Hanes?

  Or the eighth.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Okay, might be the eighth. So, early March, we're gonna try to sign up for the, uh, the Los Angeles Half Marathon.

• 20:50Cameron Hanes?

  We are. Yep, we are.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 20:52Cameron Hanes?

  I know. So, we're doing a half marathon in March.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  I'm in, dude. I love it, cuz I love that when we put this in the universe and we put this in the world and we spoke it, if we do the work, God will honor it.

• 21:03Cameron Hanes?

  Well, we-

• 21:03Speaker 01

  That's how that works.

• 21:04Cameron Hanes?

  And, and we've seen it now, just in our friendship, many times now.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yes, many.

• 21:10Cameron Hanes?

  You know, we talked about this a number of times too, but, you know, you were 500 and some pounds. I said, "Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna do Piska together."

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:17Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, that's-

• 21:18Speaker 01

  No, no, Cam, let me tell this about who you are as a friend. I want your people to hear this about who Cam is. I hit Cam one day on Instagram, he's running up Piska, and I go, "Dude, do you run that mountain every single day?" He goes, "Pretty much every day, sometimes X amount of times, a crazy number of times." And I was like, "It's just a mountain. Does it ever get flat?" He's like, "No." I was like, he's like, "But it's beautiful, man. You've seen the summit." I was like, and we're, this all in text, and I'm like, "Dude, it's beautiful, beautiful." He's like, "You're gonna run it with me one day." Dude, I was 550 pounds when you sent that to me, and I was thinking, "This dude's nuts." I think, I think I went LOL, "Hell yeah," or something like that.

• 21:53Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I think I said, "Maybe like, either run it or get on that monument."

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 21:58Cameron Hanes?

  Like, there's a picture on the monument, the flex or whatever it is, and that's like, to get to the top of the mountain is one thing, but then there's a monument, and then we wanna be on that.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it.

• 22:07Cameron Hanes?

  And so, I thought that, "Okay, let's get you on, not just on the top of the mountain, but on the monument." And, but, how realistic was that?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Oh, dude, at 500 pounds, I couldn't have rolled up there, you couldn't have pulled me up there, and if y'all gapped me up there, you would've had to crane me on the monument.

• 22:21Cameron Hanes?

  I can't believe, I see, now we've been looking at-

• 22:24Speaker 01

  But that's you as a friend, Cam. Like, you believe that in your heart. Like, you seen something in me I didn't see in me. And those are the little seeds of friendship that start changing people's lives. When somebody starts believing in you, when you don't believe in you, when you have somebody looks at you like, "Yo, man, like, I think you can run this thing one day for real." You know what I mean? Like, when you have people go, "Yo, I think you can do this 5K. Like, I'll be there for you, I'm coming." You hit me immediately, it was like, when I announced the 5K, you were like, "There." I'll run it with you. You know what I mean? It was like immediately, we walked, it took us an hour and a half.

• 22:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  But like, these are the little moments that make you go, man, maybe that dude sees, starts kind of making it's the back to the big buck. You know what I'm saying? But in a good way.

• 22:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  It's not the ego way anymore. It's the confidence building way. It's what good friends do. It's what good values do. It's when you, when you can reflect back, man, I love you for that, Cam. And I hope your people know that that's who you are off this camera. You know what I mean?

• 23:12Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, these are conversations we've been having for years, three, five years now.

• 23:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  That nobody would know that we're just now telling the world, you know what I mean? This is cool as to me at least.

• 23:22Cameron Hanes?

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• 24:06Cameron Hanes?

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• 24:49Cameron Hanes?

  And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering, one word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly.

• 25:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you know, when you were saying that I was thinking and I don't know it's not intentional for me to say like I believe in you or we're gonna do this that it's not like a plan and I was just thinking as you were saying that I was just like it feels like and I think I've thought this myself but I don't remember ever believing in me when I was a kid you know what I mean nobody ever said nobody ever said like you can do this you can do that you know how like it's kind of a joke that you can be whatever you want your parents like a good parents say you want to be president of the United States you can be but I don't remember anybody ever saying I believe in you about anything so maybe it's like you know we always say that our childhood affects

• 25:45Cameron Hanes?

  whatever but maybe it's from that because as you're saying that too I remember not just you but like my friend Courtney DeWalter she ran C I M down in Sacramento that Truitt just ran and she was trying to get the Olympic qualifying standard for the marathon and I remember texting her just I believe in you and she's like elite athlete and maybe it's just like that's my default now because I didn't have that so I just want people who I care about to know that

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Let's think about I'll give you another moment that touched me was Max's run yeah when you sent that video I was like right now you gotta make a decision how does your story end today and I was like the insanity of Kane to believe in that kid in that moment to send him that message that that within a broadcast in the world of like a moment it looked like and at that point of the race didn't look like he had it

• 26:32Cameron Hanes?

  No it wasn't looking good

• 26:34Speaker 01

  It wasn't looking good right then

• 26:36Cameron Hanes?

  Here's the backstory to that so the guy filming that that race for him his name's Tyler he's filmed for me before too but I didn't know Max wow didn't even know who who he was Tyler knew Max was struggling those races are so hard right and he is in the depth right it's like if you look at that watch that film I think it's yeah it's called King of Moab but there's times where he's walking and just dragging his you know he's got his poles that you the runner hike with but he's just dragging and just like walking slow they're dragging behind him it's not looking

• 27:17Cameron Hanes?

  good it's like the pace is probably like one mile an hour and when you got 200 and some miles it's gonna take a while so Tyler said hey He's Cam, I'm filming this guy. He didn't even say his name. He's like, but he's really struggling right now. Is there any way you could send me a video for him? And so I'm like, okay, who is this guy? So I went to, I went live tracking on the race and I'm like, okay, he was here. This, it can't be this guy leading. It's gotta be this guy, Max. Okay. His name is Max. All right. I can make a video to Max. And I'm just like guessing that's who this runner is. He never said whatever. So I'm like, okay, Max. And I'm just like, I know what it means to, to

• 27:59Cameron Hanes?

  have somebody believe in you. So I'm like, I'm making this video. I don't even know who this is, but I know what it is to believe in somebody. And I made it and said, you know, hey, and I didn't really have to know who he was to know that that's a critical part of this journey. And this is like where we make our decision on how's it going to end? Is it going to end with just struggling and just barely getting in, which in a race like that is still like a win? Or is it going to win with what's your legacy going to be? What's the leg, is the legacy going to be that you were, all hope was lost and you dug deep and you caught the, the leader and you won this race? Is that what it's going to be?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I got chill bumps when I heard you say it to him. He's like, what's your story going to be?

• 28:44Cameron Hanes?

  So now, yeah, I said that, sent that, they played it for him and he's watching it. And he had been following me and he's just like, no way. And he's like looking and now we're, we're good friends. Now I'm, I'm so tight with him. He's like the nicest kid and we've had a great podcast. We've run together. Such a good.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  I watched some of you, I watched some of y'all's pod. I love them. How do you say his last name? Jolif?

• 29:08Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I don't need it. Jolif, yeah. We'd blow it. That's why I didn't say it. But I sent him a message. I loved his story.

• 29:13Cameron Hanes?

  I know how to spell it.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 29:16Cameron Hanes?

  But he's just a great, and he's really good. He's a amazing talent in ultra.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Really cool story too, though, man.

• 29:23Cameron Hanes?

  But it's, oh, thank you. But it's like, I think the key is, is when somebody believes in you, it just adds, it adds. It changes things.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Changes everything.

• 29:32Cameron Hanes?

  You're like, you're not just letting yourself down. You're like, God, this, I can't let this person down now.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:39Cameron Hanes?

  So that's where those words, I believe in you mean so much.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  For sure. And I think it's also knowing, seeing that in that moment from somebody who's been there.

• 29:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  That hits so different.

• 29:51Cameron Hanes?

  Another key part.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  That hits so different. He's in the trench of it like, man, this dude's been here.

• 29:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Like, he sat right here on this rock, pretty much, with the same pain and figuring out what he was gonna do.

• 30:01Cameron Hanes?

  And that, that does mean a lot, that when it's like, um, if I was just hadn't done it before, then you can just write it off. It's like, this guy doesn't even know.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  It'd be like me sitting in my mess, like, yeah, it's cool, Jelly's encouraging me, but he don't know what the [__] I'm going through. I'm hallucinating out here, dude.

• 30:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's, uh, yeah, it's different, but that was, and that was amazing. He was fifteen miles down with forty to go.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Oh, I was.

• 30:25Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, think about that. So he's at.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  My whole life, by the way.

• 30:30Cameron Hanes?

  He's like, at mile two hundred, the race is two forty, he's fifteen back. That's not looking good.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 30:37Cameron Hanes?

  And the guy winning is just a stud. Harry Subertus is his name, and he's a freak. So you look at it, it's like, there's no way.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:46Cameron Hanes?

  There's a way.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Super Max, dude.

• 30:48Cameron Hanes?

  Got the win, King of Moab.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I love that though, but it's back to belief, man. And you sow to seed a belief in somebody when they needed it the most. I'm an example of that. Max is an example of that, just, you know, not, that's, that's, that's one of your gifts, man.

• 31:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  God gave it to you in spades, brother. I, you might have, you know what's fun about, weird about God's gifts is we don't discover them sometimes. Not that they're, but it molds us to have things that we can use to the, to the kingdom. You know what I mean? Even the worst, God, because God makes everything good, right? That's what he does. His thing is, uh, my buddy said Forrest Frank actually taught me this. I thought this was cool. He said he thinks it's like jujitsu. Like, even when it's going against you, it's just, it's just leverage for God to get you back in a better position.

• 31:26Cameron Hanes?

  I see, yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Always. So maybe some of the not belief that came from your childhood has made you be the guy that sows that belief into people in a way that they really need it at moments they critically need it. You know what I mean? Because you've been it for me, you've been it for Max. I'm sure there's every, everybody that works for you feels the same way. Every conversation I have with these people separate of you, they all feel the same way. You know, like, it's just who you are, bubba. You're funny too, though. People probably don't know that way. No, they know. They watch shit Talkers Weekly. They know you're funny.

• 31:52Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I just, I mean, I'm just blown away. I, oh, I was thinking, that was another thing I was thinking about. So you talked about you had confidence. I just wanted to get this part nailed down. You also mentioned you read the Bible. So your confidence, because I was just thinking back to my childhood. I had, my grandparents owned a ranch, or both grandparents over in Eastern Oregon owned a ranch. So I would try to turn that into a, like a thing for me to flex on back at my school, like, oh my, so I was just wondering if it was like this for you. But I would say, yeah, my family owns big ranches in Eastern Oregon.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:31Cameron Hanes?

  So that was like, that was like me flexing, like, oh, my family's, you know, big ranchers. Would you, is that, did that give you confidence because your family had the, the meat business? Or was, or did you have the confidence because you said you'd pray, or you, you know, from, from your faith, like as a kid? What gave you, like, how would you turn that into confidence?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Great, great, great, good, good stuff. I think it's a good mixture of all of them, like my, like, early values, like even my, my daddy was just big on, first of all, my father was a hustler.

• 33:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Like an old school, flat foot hustler. He wasn't financially responsible because he ended up having multiple wives and just, these were the, this was the story of this man. He drank a lot.

• 33:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  But he was a strong, but a great man, like core values, like took me to feed the homeless all the time when I was a kid. Like, our whole life was like a benevolent man. Like, he was the man in the neighborhood, the whole neighborhood came to when they had a problem.

• 33:27Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, that's who he was to the neighborhood. That, my mother was the mother who accepted every cousin on drugs that needed to get sober. Or was going through something. She had her own mental things going on, but like, she created a house where anybody could come. If you were family, you didn't knock. The door was open for you. Come on in. Whatever you're going through, lay on that couch. Don't bother, don't bring your problems in here. Sleep them off. We'll help you in the morning.

• 33:48Cameron Hanes?

  So, yeah, your dad had flaws, but man, he had a lot of great attributes.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Lot of great attributes. So I would watch these and they instilled good stuff in me, like sirs and maams. So like, even when I first start going to jail and juvenile, I'd look around and be like, yo, man, am I, am I the only one in here that's afraid of their daddy? Slapping the shit out of them.

• 34:05Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? For not saying sir to this guard.

• 34:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  You know, I had moments where I would buck the guards too, because I was a reckless, just egotout kid. You know, there was just longing for connection. But what really happened is as I got older, I had to really accept the fact that I was trying to be something I wasn't most of my life. And that's really hard to accept when you overly commit to something because you're just so afraid of not connecting or fitting in in any way. That you'll accept any kind of fitting in or connecting in any way you can. And that's really hard to not just carry a shame the rest of your life too. And a lot of people do, and they just live in that shame.

• 34:40Cameron Hanes?

  So what was that where you, that wasn't you, but you're trying to fit in? Is that like dealing drugs or what, what was that?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Dealing drugs, I think was me seeing the hustler in the family. Like I had a brother that hustled and my father hustled. I don't think, I think I just did the wrong thing, but my father also booked bets. So there was a blurred line about what could or couldn't go around. You know what I mean? As far as like.

• 34:59Cameron Hanes?

  He had principle too.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  He had such a principle. I'm telling you, that's kind of where I get. People understand me. I've never talked about it this much. So I hope maybe people understand that my, why I'm kind of living that unique space of like, I cuss and smoke a little pot every now and then. But I'm a big Jesus guy.

• 35:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, I guess my daddy, you know, I watched a man feed the homeless. I watched the man end up leave, when him and my mother divorced, he ended up marrying a Methodist minister. Still drank. So he kind of always was like this unique guy.

• 35:27Cameron Hanes?

  I trust people who don't hide their, like, everybody's flawed, but there's people who like, pretend like they're perfect all the time. You're, you're not pretending. You're like, this is me. Yes, I cuss. Yes, I love Jesus.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:41Cameron Hanes?

  Just this way it goes.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Just who I am.

• 35:43Cameron Hanes?

  I, I want that over somebody who's fake half the time.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 35:48Cameron Hanes?

  Because they're hiding something.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  One hundred percent.

• 35:50Cameron Hanes?

  And so I, I appreciate.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  I think God would too.

• 35:52Cameron Hanes?

  I, just authenticity. And it's like, your dad, yeah, he had some, but the lessons that you talked about have been all positive. You, you mentioned the negative because that was part of it, but that negative didn't impact you like the positive did. And what I'm hearing.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  One hundred percent. And I had older, I was the baby. So I had older brothers and sisters. Who, me and my older sister, I hope she don't mind me sharing this. I love you Shelby, you know that. Um, but we had, it was a cool talk we had the other day about moms, about our mom. She, we both have, had struggled with mother issues. It's something we share. I love my mother to death. We're super close now, but you know, but uh, we both struggled with it and we were talking about how different experiences in the same household. And Shelby said, I used to feel so alone in that house, you know, and I was like, man, I hate that. She said, did you ever feel alone in that house? And it was such a cool moment for me. I was like, no, man, I had you. I had Scott, I had Roger, of course. I didn't know, you know, like it took for, it took, what until y'all left that I realized something was wrong with mom.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, cause while y'all were there, I was the belle of the ball, dude. You know what I mean? Like I was a confidence booster in me early. But what I learned was these were all little seeds that were sowed that I ended up having to dig up way later in life. The confidence I was getting was from like, in the moment was hustling, getting little pops in jail, people liking me, just being kind of, people digging who I was as a dude. But later in life, the confidence I got was going back to those little seeds. Once I got through the trauma of my childhood, cause I used to only get on podcasts and talk about all the bad stuff from my childhood. So this is so cool to finally be in, that shows the growth I've had in therapy in the last five years, is to be in here being more like, when you understand, like even with, even at the worst of your parents, it was an effort more often than not. And even if they gave no effort at all and they were completely absent, at least you have the gift to try to do something today.

• 37:34Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And like, so even when I used to get really mad at my mom, I'd be like, man, I'm so blessed. I can do something today because of her though. I can do anything today.

• 37:42Cameron Hanes?

  When did, did you always have that kind of silver lining or?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  No, no, man. Started getting, years later of just doing lots of work. Yeah, lots of prayer. Uh, the seeds you sow, I read the Bible, the New Testament cover to cover. I don't know, hundreds of times probably during my incarceration, cause I'd have a little Gideon Bible that I'd have in the cell with me all the time and I just, sometimes I couldn't afford other books or have other books. And uh, so I knew the story. I knew the word. You know what I mean? But it just, I hadn't let it actually sit in me yet.

• 38:12Cameron Hanes?

  What was reading it doing for you?

• 38:14Speaker 01

  I think I truly believe that it's like this concept of that I live now that I'm kinda trying to help some other people that are trying to lose weight live with is you must sow positive seeds. Like I did understand that in jail. Like in jail, I was like, I'm not gonna sit in here and not do nothing productive. Like I'm gonna read.

• 38:32Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like when I'm stuck in this jail cell, when I'm out there in the unit, I can play cards, I can rap, I can turn the TV on like I, but when I'm stuck in this cell for twelve, sixteen hours a day, eighteen hours some days, twenty-three hours some days, I'm gonna read.

• 38:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I'm just gonna just pump. I'm just gonna try, like even to this day, I can say a lot of, I can say a lot of words that I can write, but I can't pronounce.

• 38:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  I pronounce a lot of words wrong because I just, I've read them for years, but I never actually, you know, I, I missed all of high school. I missed the last year of middle school. Like I missed all of formal education. I got my GED when I was in like twenty, I was twenty-four years old in jail. You know what I mean? So I was just lots of reading, but

• 39:14Speaker 01

  there were some kinda blank seeds at the time, or seeds I was using to weaponize.

• 39:18Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Like to be manipulative. I was just a horrible human. I was a convict. You know what I mean?

• 39:22Cameron Hanes?

  How, how would you do that?

• 39:24Speaker 01

  You would just try to, you know, I would try to get information. I remember, dude, I, I probably accidentally learned more about the criminal. I have, I have so much information about the criminal system in the state of Tennessee that I'll never use again. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Where I thought I was a lawyer in there. I filed my own appeal one time. Like I was that, I was that inmate privately. You know, I was just like obsessed with this kinda thing. You know what I mean? So like to me, it was just always, um, there's, you ever read Forty-Eight Laws of Power?

• 39:55Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 39:56Cameron Hanes?

  Is that Robert?

• 39:56Speaker 01

  It's a great book and I love Robert Greene. And I think he is one of the greatest authors ever. I love his work.

• 40:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I've seen, I've, I haven't read the book.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  But that particular book in jail, it got banned from the federal prison system because they were like. Using it, it was like further enhancing gangs in federal prison and the Federal Bureau of Prison recognized this, that gangs were getting way more organized and manipulative and stronger because this book was getting passed around.

• 40:24Cameron Hanes?

  Leadership book?

• 40:25Speaker 01

  But it's like really about the dark side of power.

• 40:28Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Like how to manipulate people to get power your way.

• 40:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And like, I remember there was a, what I say now is, there was a time in my life I wanted to live by the forty-eight laws of power. Today, I want to live by the five languages of love.

• 40:42Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, today, I want to live by the gospels. You know what I mean? But there was a time in my life where I thought the thirty-three strategies of war, the forty-eight laws of power, these were the books that were pouring into me. Later in life, it would be Malcolm Gladwell's Goliath.

• 40:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It would be The Man Who Loved Clowns. It would be Mitch Albom books that kind of started softening my heart and making me be more empathetic about life and crying and seeing things different and like opening these emotions. I didn't cry a bunch until I was in my thirties. Like, I wasn't a big crier at all. Like, I wasn't a very emotional guy. And, uh...

• 41:15Cameron Hanes?

  Were you just like, no, guys, you're supposed to be tough, you don't care? Like, if you cared about something, that's a weakness?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  For sure. One hundred. I couldn't care about anything. I had to, you remember that movie Heat?

• 41:25Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  I lived like that forever. Like, if you couldn't walk away from it in thirty seconds and never think about it again, it didn't matter to you.

• 41:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's what, like, De Niro and, uh, they're sitting there at the table at the end and saying that, well, whatever. I think he's talking about his, his wife, and he's just like, I could just leave, just what it takes. Gotta be able to walk out.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Thirty seconds at any time.

• 41:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And I lived that way in every way. So, having that daughter, it goes back to this, the moments of like, I can't live that way no more.

• 41:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I just, I knew what I had to start changing.

• 41:54Cameron Hanes?

  What, um...

• 41:56Speaker 01

  This is deep, thank you. I never get to talk about the process of my change like this. This is cool.

• 42:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it's just, it's super interesting, because I see, I see you now, and, you know, I see the old pictures and I see the his, that's history, you know, you're holding your thing and the mugshot and the five hundred pounds, and I see all that, but it's like, I don't see that.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Cameron Hanes?

  I, I see you being the, like, when I, when I explain you to people or describe you to people, I'm like, he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever, ever met, so loving, so generous, so caring, so, I can't even imagine this person we're talking about. That's what, but I, but I'm interested. I'm, I'm, because I'm fascinated about this transformation of going from that, the selfish... Drug dealing criminal.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:42Cameron Hanes?

  To the most loving person I know. And it's like, if that, if you can do that, as we've talked about with all the, all these things that we've, you know, kind of our, our anchors to our relationship, our friendship is, uh, you can cha-, you know, you can change, you can night and day different, but has to be intentional, right? So I'm kinda, I'm just super interested in this, but one other thing, um, I know your dad, he died in twenty eighteen.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Twenty nineteen.

• 43:11Cameron Hanes?

  So when you were getting into trouble and going in, you know, eighth grade, all the way through high school, what was the conversation with your dad like?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Um, my father was very, uh, he, if you, you had to come to him kinda, he'd check in on you, but he would just kinda, you know, he just believed, he was old school parenting. So he was just kinda like, yo, man, I love you. I'm here. Call me if you ever need me. You know what I mean?

• 43:34Cameron Hanes?

  Well, like when you'd go to jail, though, would he be disappointed?

• 43:37Speaker 01

  He'd be disappointed, but I've been a juvenile my whole life at that point. So he just kind of, you know, I hate to say it, that disappointment factor disappeared a decade before I changed my life. He was just like, you know what? I think maybe there was a side of him that was, had accepted, maybe I was gonna spend the rest of my life in and out of prison or die young.

• 43:53Cameron Hanes?

  As a parent, people are always going like, asking about your kids. So when they'd say, how's, how's Jason doing?

• 44:00Speaker 01

  I'm sure he'd say, trying to figure it out.

• 44:01Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. He didn't hide from the fact I was in jail, you know, cause I've been in and out so much at that point. It's like, you know, he's back on vacation or he's on one of them concretes, you know, he's he'd say something funny or try to make a jinger about it. He was kinda snazzy like me a little bit. So more quiet, more intentional with his words. I kinda talk a lot and have fun. But he was very, but he was still very intentional and funny.

• 44:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  But he, um, I think he just kind of accepted at some point that he just loved me. And that was big. You know what I mean?

• 44:27Cameron Hanes?

  Your flaws, he's gonna love you.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  He showed up to that, that county jail, showed up to that, wherever I was at every weekend.

• 44:32Cameron Hanes?

  Did he?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, every weekend. If he was in town, he swung by. It was, it was a no brainer. Unless he had something going on, he'd let me know, hey, I won't be here next weekend. I'm going to do this. I was like, babe, you know, this to me. He's like, I just love that I get to hang out with you, man. I miss you. You know, it's just cool. He's just like, really, and that's sometimes that just general support. When you're deep in it, you need. And when you're in jail, it's a good time to get it because you, you really sober up to your life. Like it's, you know, a real dry spot.

• 44:57Cameron Hanes?

  And he, but he would never like, like.

• 45:02Cameron Hanes?

  Be like, what the are you doing? He would never like.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Not after I was, not after.

• 45:08Cameron Hanes?

  After a certain point, he's just like, this is what it's.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I ran away from home at fifteen, one of them cases, like, it just wasn't no telling. I was, I was completely Tasmanian devil, bubba. Nobody was, nobody was stopping what I, where my head was. I'm just glad God spared me through it. Cause every attempt I made to kill myself, whether intentional or not, you know what I mean? Was, was, was unabated, thank God, you know?

• 45:31Cameron Hanes?

  Do you think God's hand was on you and that's why you're reading the Bible? Like, cover to cover, hundreds of times? And.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Hmm. God, it's crazy. I always think God's hands on us. I think at the time I was reading it, just looking for hope. In such a hopeless place, it's kind of what the jail, you know.

• 45:50Cameron Hanes?

  Make you feel better to read it?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  You know what was crazy? We talked about this last night was, it actually was different. I read it from the, I had no real, I had early childhood church, but not a lot of indoctrination.

• 46:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  I went to a Baptist church called Wichita Chapel. I wrote a whole album about it, kind of, um, that taught me a lot about core faith. But not a lot about, you know, I don't want to say not a lot about Jesus, but just kind of core, basic Jesus, basic Bible telling. I was a kid, I'd never been in church, you know what I mean? So, I mean, it was basic, the birds and bees of the Bible. So then you get in there as an adult male, kind of a young adult male, and you start reading just the New Testament. It's what I keep emphasizing is I did not have a full Bible at the time. I had no understanding. And I started reading it from that perspective. And the more I read it the way, that way, this would really come out of my faith later in life would be like, I just can't read it any other way. But Jesus was just absolute savage.

• 46:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? That he was the most fearless and bold man that has ever walked the face of the earth. Like, man, you talk.

• 46:48Cameron Hanes?

  And they portray him a little differently.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Sometimes popular Christianity kind of portrays Jesus a little different. Um, you know, they, they love to say he's a rebel wows or when it is convenient for them, but they hate when other people use his rebel rousing in other ways. You know what I mean? It's very, it's that very pick and choose Christianity that happens. You know what I mean? But it's like, if you don't do the pick and choose Christianity, we just look at Jesus for who he is. He was a gangster. In a good way. He was a good, he was a great guy. He was, he was, he was the epitome of empathy and love as well. But he was also a take no bullshit kinda guy. You know what I mean? Like he broke lots of laws in there. Right. He was a criminal in that era for sure. They were looking to incarcerate him. That's why he was killed. He was executed. He, you know, in this area, that's the electric chair. Right. You know what I mean? Like I know what people don't like those comparisons, but that's the truth.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know what I mean? Like in this area, that's death by syringe. They're doing it in these, it happened multiple times this year, still in America today. Right. You know, so it's like, this is a, when we really look at who Jesus was. So I started seeing that and I was like, man, this dude's awesome. So me and you joked last night, imagine when you get that spirit and you go to church for the first time out and you're like,

• 47:57Speaker 01

  um, question. We all read the same Bible, right? They were like, yes. I was like, the New Testament, y'all are familiar? Like, yeah, I'm like, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You've all read them? Like, yeah, I was like, where are y'all getting all this stuff from? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, and I get it, you know, it was a joke, but it's, it's kinda real. Yeah. And I, but I love where contemporary Christianity is heading right now. I think it's back in love and empathy. I think Christians are like, and I am a Christian, but I think the like popular Christianity is like back in the world again, doing it the way, like it's not being preachy on corners and do megaphones. It's like through acts of service, through acts of kindness, like Christians are back showing up for people.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  You know, uh, the Christian community makes up 70% of the world's giving, or 80% of the world's giving. You know, so it's like, we're back in that space right now. So I, I walk a fine line when I joke about what was Christianity when I came out and what is now. I think it's actually really trending back. Yeah. There's always gonna be extremes on everything, you know, but it's like, it feels like we're talking about Jesus in a really cool way again. We're not judging people on lifestyle stuff with Jesus anymore. We're like, yo, let, let them find Jesus. Like Jesus, even down to my cussing, like if Jesus really wants me to quit cussing, y'all, I'm back in my Bible right now. I'm reading again. It's on my bus. You know what I mean? Like he'll come to me. Yeah.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  If he tugs on my heart to do something else, I'll tell you what, you couldn't have told me three or four years ago, this is how I would be talking on podcasts. Right. You know what I mean? You couldn't have told me the first time I did Theo Von's podcast seven years ago, I, you know, I was on there half drunk. You know what I mean? That I'd be on here today. Like having these like, hey, man, I was a scared kid.

• 49:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Wanted to be a part of something he wasn't even, you know what I mean? Like, it's just so much more like, look what Jesus has already done. Just, if Jesus is being patient with me, why can't the Christians?

• 49:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 49:48Cameron Hanes?

  He's opened your heart for sure.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 49:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  I'm talking about him a lot more loosely, you know what I mean? Like, I'm more comfortable with our relationship now.

• 49:55Cameron Hanes?

  I'm hearing, you know, to, to your point, like, everybody knows Joe's been talking about going to church and about Christianity and reading the Bible. And it's like, that's just one example, it's an easy, lazy example, but I've seen it a lot more lately. It feels like there's definitely a movement.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  There's a movement happening, and it's really cool because churches are also opening their doors again, like, yo, don't run people off. You know what I mean? Like, the church is back being like, let them come, let them sit, let God meet them where they are. Quit expecting people to be the Christian, you know, because like, dude, I talk to people that are, you know, I've had luck, I've been lucky to have a guy like Brandon Lake coming to my life, who is, grew up in a father who preached household, Christian his whole life, been, and won so many awards, Grammys, Dove's, I mean, he's been a face of Christian country music and Christian music forever, coming to my life and pour into me, you know what I mean? And it's like, you know, and he looks at me like, dude, if we're talking about Christianity, yeah, you've read the Bible a lot, but you're baby in faith, you know what I mean?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Like, like, like, take your time, dude, don't like, don't judge yourself against what I'm doing.

• 50:59Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? He's like, that's not a realistic barometer. It'd be like if I judged my shot last night out of that blind, out of your, but on your shot.

• 51:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, my first ever shot on a live animal in front of me, it's no comparison to what you've done.

• 51:11Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So it's like, and then when I see it that way, I get relaxed, I'm like, oh, I'm right, dude. If I, if I kill 20,000 animals, I can be Cam Hines.

• 51:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  If I really chose to wake up tomorrow and be like, I want to dedicate my life to bow hunting, 10, 15 years from now, me and you'd be out there, you'd be like, dude, you're an absolute nut out here.

• 51:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's like, I believe that, so it's really kind of that same thing in faith.

• 51:32Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  It's like, I love that this has a theme to this pod. It's like, just don't be afraid to start wherever you are.

• 51:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, that's, no, we talked about it, uh, being on the path.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:43Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and it doesn't matter where, where on the path you, you jump on, but hey, we're heading the right direction.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  In the right direction.

• 51:49Cameron Hanes?

  And that's a, that's like, even when I go to church, it's like, there's some, some days I feel like, I feel like my faith is super strong. I feel like I'm very happy and very content and I got it and I'm like making good decisions. And then I go to church on Sundays and there's some Sundays and Rick Reeves is a pastor there. And the sermon's great. Everything's good. And I'm sitting there, then we're supposed to take communion, communion. And I usually go in the back just so I can just think by myself and I'm just standing there and I'm just always just like,

• 52:21Cameron Hanes?

  I just,

• 52:24Cameron Hanes?

  help me be the man I'm supposed to be, the leader I'm supposed to be, the, the husband, the father I'm supposed to be. Because I know when I look in the mirror, what I'm supposed to do, but I have thoughts and I'm just like, they're not like, you have these sayings, you're just like, God, I'm, I'm weak. I, I made the shitty decision. I know better, but I did. So I'm just like, I'm back there and I'm like, please just help me, you know, Jesus, help me just be who I'm supposed to be.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:52Cameron Hanes?

  And it's hard.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 52:53Cameron Hanes?

  That shit is hard.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Super hard.

• 52:55Cameron Hanes?

  And I, and then it's like, it's hard not to want to beat yourself up when you know you've, you're not living right.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 53:02Cameron Hanes?

  You know, or if you, or even like, to me, it's even like, I can act, like even you've, you've had examples and like, oh, you, you know, you believe in the, you believed in me, you said I could do it, but I know when I look in the mirror that I feel like a piece of shit half the time.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 53:18Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because I'm like, I, I'm acting and trying to do, trying to be the best friend, trying to be somebody anybody could count on. But I know like I have doubts in my, in myself.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:30Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and I'm just like, am I a fraud? Am I really a piece of shit, but I'm like acting like I'm nice to, you know?

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:38Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, it's hard to, I don't know if that makes sense.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, more than you'll ever know. And dude, that's so cool for you to be that vulnerable, too. That's because we all feel that way.

• 53:47Cameron Hanes?

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• 54:32Cameron Hanes?

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• 55:12Cameron Hanes?

  Hoyt is offering listeners of the podcast 20% off on all soft good items at Hoyt.com using code C A M. That's CAM.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  We're all a prisoner of our own thoughts in those minds and like, dude, you're, one, you're a great guy, bro. You know what I mean? You're one of the best men I've ever met, and that's because you're so self-reflective that you'll sit around and go, am I tripping? Am I tripping? Just man, dude. I know that feeling deep and somebody told me this, you gotta give yourself grace in between your ears. You know what I mean? Like, we are only held accountable for what comes out of our mouth, not what we think. We gotta take those thoughts captive. They're not, we're just responsible for batting them down as quick as they come.

• 55:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? But we're not like, I don't have no control over that. You know what I mean?

• 55:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  What I do have control over is immediately going like, I rebuke that thought. That's not real. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not even gonna let that thought sit here because I know that feeling all the time. I know you gotta feel it too. I feel, but I never heard, used to hear the word imposter syndrome and be like, what are they talking about?

• 56:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  And then you get successful and you're like, even now, I'm like, how in the [__] I end up on a bow hunting trip with Cameron? Hey, do you know what I mean? I'm like, well, this is insane to me that this is where I'm sitting. You know, like, how did I, you know, so everything you can, and then even every day here, I've had to bat, what you're saying right now is something I've had to fight here for the first time in a long time because I'm so out of my comfort zone.

• 56:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  I'm so in a place I've never been. It is, the stakes were so much higher than anticipated. It's so much more. It's so exhilarating. It is so intensely, beautifully up and down and just, just such a range of emotions, you know, just sitting just a little blind and feel every single human emotion. And then you come back and you're like, dude, I'm embarrassing myself in front of all these guys. I don't know anything about this. And then I just, then you gotta be like, you know what? I'm not supposed to, dude. You know what I mean? Like, of course. I don't, yeah, like, I gave myself grace.

• 57:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  I was beating myself to death last night. I woke up this morning in a way better mood. You know what I mean?

• 57:08Cameron Hanes?

  Well, Jerry and I were just talking about it too, but that you, your attitude is, you know, we go on these hunts, everybody has a goal, everybody wants to get a big buck and get that, you know, the photo and it's just like, you want this, some, I, I, I hope I, I don't want this, but we seek validation for our efforts. You know, if we do good work, we want people to say, you did good, good job. And so sometimes that's dominating our stuff, but. We're talking, you have this ups and downs, the high stakes, the, the learning, but you've had a positive attitude, at least exhibited hourly, the whole time, even, even with the mistakes, even with the,

• 57:53Cameron Hanes?

  what, what, you don't know what to do, you're asking what to do, or you're trying to make a good decision, but you've still given yourself grace and you've had a positive attitude and even if we fail or we make a mistake, you're like, it's okay, that's okay, we're gonna, you know, and I've tried to be that too, but you're the one who's in control of how you feel, you're the, you're the newbie, this is brand new experience and you've like been so, given yourself so much grace and like had such a positive attitude about it, it's blown me away. Because everybody has these goals and it's like you can say whatever and say, I'm going to this best place in the world to whitetail hunt, and you'd say, I want to kill a big buck, and that's like, that's it, that's the only, but you have other goals, you're like, no, I'm trying to learn.

• 58:37Cameron Hanes?

  This is just, even if I fail, it's a win.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  It's a win.

• 58:40Cameron Hanes?

  And. But people, people say stuff like that all the time and don't, but you can tell their body language or their words, you're like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I'm seeing a different, you know, your body's telling me something different. You've, you believe that.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  No, I believe, and, and the cool thing is I've got to prove it every time we get in a blind.

• 59:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Cause every time I'd make, I've made very few of the same mistakes twice, you know what I mean? Like every time I'd make one, I'd be like, yo, that was that cool, we get, we get out, we decompress about, I'd be like, yo, I think this is where I blew it. You think, you're like, yeah, this is it, and we'd have these really cool moments and I'd be like, cool, so the next day, like even just little things, positioning, sitting, drawing back, remember the first time I went to draw back on something, remember it went right here, right to my chin and straight back forward, luckily I had it.

• 59:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  God, it could have been a disaster, draw number one, you know what I'm saying, but it was like, just. And then when I did draw it back, I clanked it and ran the whole, you know what I mean? It's like, these are things that, you know, once again, I've been standing in front of a target for six months, six months I've had a bow and that thing doesn't move, breathe, or stare at me. You know what I'm saying?

• 59:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  So it's like, and I'm smacking it like this will be different when that heart rate's at 199 in your throat.

• 59:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? You're just going breathe.

• 59:50Cameron Hanes?

  That dude, Bucks is staring at you.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  He takes a bite and looks over his shoulder and you're like, dude, what if he just rams here? I had that thought the first night, that's how green I was. I was like, can me and Cam kill this thing if he runs in this blind? I was like, what are we gonna do, stab him? You know what I'm saying? I like had this, and I'm like, what are you thinking, you? You know, but it's like, it's cool. I, um, I truly love it because that's the grace I learned to give myself. I learned to give others, I'm trying to do better giving it to others. It's, but I really, of like, once again, I'm not responsible for what I think. I'm responsible for how long I let myself think it. You know what I mean? Bad thoughts happen to all of us. How long I ruminated them, that's on me. I can control that.

• 1:00:28Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  I can't control one popping up. I can control sitting in it for 12 hours.

• 1:00:32Cameron Hanes?

  That makes sense.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So what I can do, I learned this in therapy, when that bad thought pops up, it's like, all right, what's, what, what is this thought? Why is it here? What do I need to make peace with about the thought? Or just sometimes I just use Jesus, man, get that away from me, saying, I don't, I rebuke that in the name of God. I don't even want that thought near me and just immediately refocus thought because when you can give yourself grace, you can live in reality too. Like, I live in a reality of like, I've never bow hunted. I haven't shot a rifle since I was 12, 10 years old or something. You know what I mean? Like, in a real way. And then you're hunting from 150 yards away, dude. Like, getting that close to these animals, Cam, I see why you've chased this high your whole life. There is nothing like the true, it's majestic, I'm looking at a deer, so I can't imagine

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  how you feel when y'all see an elk that close. You know what I mean? Of just like, these, this, like, deer look like dinosaurs to me when I'm sitting in that blind.

• 1:01:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  I can't imagine what an elk would look like. I can't wait till we go elk hunting.

• 1:01:30Cameron Hanes?

  I can't either.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  And that's why everything's a win for me, because I know what I'm working towards. It's, man, you talked about this, it was like, If we had to judge, if I had to judge what my running history was going to look like based on the first 5K that me and you did together, everything would have said I was never going to be a runner.

• 1:01:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Everything said we wouldn't be on your podcast announcing we're going to do a half marathon, you're going to run with me on my first half marathon attempt. You know what I mean? None of that would have said that. You'd have said, you'd have seen a 470 pound man walking a 5K with his boy, Cam Haynes and Philip Franklin Lee on the Two Bears 5K with Bert and Tom and you'd have thought, that was cool of Joe to give that a try. It took him an hour and 27 minutes. I think Chris Porter timed it like an hour and 30 something. You know what I mean? You would have never thought that me and you would run a 10K in the dirt, all hills together. You know what I mean? Out here on this farm. So I have that, that's the, I also have a proven history now to myself. I was talking about this on Joe's podcast of telling myself we're going to do stuff and doing it. Where I used to tell myself we was going to do stuff and we didn't do it. So then my body started being like, you fatty, not listening to you, man.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  You don't never tell me the truth. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:02:34Cameron Hanes?

  You, you mentioned that, I think that was with your family when they were out there on that run that you did and they were cheering for you, your first, I don't know if it was your first run, but you're saying that they, they had no reason to believe in you. You hadn't given them any reason. You'd been lying to yourself your whole life.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Yep. My body had no reason to listen to me.

• 1:02:54Cameron Hanes?

  Your body, your body knew that, oh, yeah, he, he thinks this stuff all the time, never happens.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Never happens.

• 1:03:00Cameron Hanes?

  Whatever. Used to, used to basically not being true to your word to yourself.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  To yourself.

• 1:03:06Cameron Hanes?

  And then your family was, was used to you probably saying stuff and never doing it.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Never doing it. I lied to them.

• 1:03:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So how, how, that changed?

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  You slowly start building a rapport with yourself.

• 1:03:16Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  And this is what I tell people, don't, that's what my therapist taught me, Mary B and Miles from onsite, Miles is like a mentor to me. You start, little things you tell yourself you're going to do and you do them. You're just, just that easy. Like for me, it was real simple. Gary Brecker said, get in a cold plunge and walk 10,000 steps a day. I'm too fat to walk 10,000 steps. I'm going to get in this cold plunge because I'm a man, I should be able to sit in cold water for six minutes. You know what I mean? And I'm going to walk a half mile. I don't care what the weather is, I'm going to do it outside because I need sunlight. I like, I one.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  If I ever write a book, this will be a chapter in it, but it's like I adopted the cliches too. You know what I mean? Like the fun cliches. You see all the, but all the real dudes say like Huberman's like, wake up and get in the sun.

• 1:03:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  You want to battle depression? Just go look at the sun.

• 1:04:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I'm like, dude, this is a neuroscientist telling us this. You know what I mean? Like, I should do this.

• 1:04:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  You know, so it's as simple as it's, but it's a cliche. You hear it your whole life. Like you don't feel good, just go take a walk in nature.

• 1:04:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah, if that would solve my problems, Linda, I'd just go walk in nature. You know, that's that victim mentality, right? You don't know what I've been through, Linda, you know? And then it's like, you start walking through nature and you're like, ooh.

• 1:04:23Cameron Hanes?

  I actually do feel better.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  I feel better out here. I was like, I'm in a better mood.

• 1:04:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  I'm a better husband because I took a little walk in the sunlight and thought about my day and how I was gonna. And then, you know, so I just started telling my body what I was gonna do. And then I started, and then it gets deep. Then I started being able to manifest more. Then I started telling my mind what we were gonna do. I was like, look, look, we're, we know it's gonna take a while for the body to get here.

• 1:04:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  But I need you to start thinking now.

• 1:04:49Cameron Hanes?

  Like, what's an example of that?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Summer slam.

• 1:04:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  When I fell down, when I got the choke slam, Austin Thier, and I got up from them ropes. And I was, you know, big and the, the Miz and, um, our truth helped me up. And I remember thinking.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  Right then I started telling my mind, like, we're in a wrestle. I'm embarrassed right now of how this just happened. Like, I should, I should, I, I gotta do something about this, like.

• 1:05:12Cameron Hanes?

  What, that they had to help you up?

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. That I was just so big, I couldn't even get myself up.

• 1:05:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, just the basic ability to be so fat. Like, I'm responsible for a full family out here, Cam.

• 1:05:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  And I'm not even a man enough to be able to get myself up in a timely enough fashion. You know what I mean? But they needed to help me to get me out of there for the TV had to cut.

• 1:05:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Like, you know, um, and I asked them to help me. What's even worse, before I went out there, I knew this was gonna be a problem.

• 1:05:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  I was like, hey, y'all, when we hit the five knuckle shuffle. Help you, boy.

• 1:05:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  That's a big, you know, I don't know anything. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get up. You know what I mean? Or I might have to roll out of the ring. I'm not sure. You know, that's a super like, and I remember feeling that feeling and sitting with it for a minute. And I was telling the body to do little stuff at the time. And I was like, this is where I'm gonna start challenging the mind. I was like, I want you to start focusing on Logan Paul jumping off that top rope through a table on you.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  And I literally, everybody talks about manifestation. I didn't really start truly trying to manifest. I've always manifested things in a real way, but it was more in like a natural, just like belief of going forward way. This was me starting to be like, I want to see Logan Paul off that top rope.

• 1:06:16Cameron Hanes?

  So, so, but explain the difference.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Well, so now I gotta start telling the body because you can't confuse the body. For me at least, I can't tell the body, we're going off the top rope next year, the body can be like, fuck you, we couldn't stand up.

• 1:06:27Cameron Hanes?

  Prepare your body, yeah.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm getting my mind strong. I'm getting my mind like, because if I can start seeing it up here.

• 1:06:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Because I, I remember this, somebody used to be like, have you ever imagined yourself skinny?

• 1:06:38Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  I couldn't see it.

• 1:06:40Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  That's why I shaved my face.

• 1:06:41Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  I couldn't even imagine it, like, at my biggest, I couldn't imagine myself skinny. You know what I mean?

• 1:06:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  So it's like, but I realized I was trying to imagine, I was trying, I was, my mind wasn't ready to go that far. My body already didn't believe anything my mind was doing. So my, my, my body doubled laughing, my mind thought that. You know what I mean? I had to start really small with just like little wings.

• 1:07:00Cameron Hanes?

  I'm Jelly Roll.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Cameron Hanes?

  Jelly Roll's not skinny.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  First, you know what I mean? The body's like, fuck you dude. So there would be little things, like, I'm not gonna eat one thing besides what's on my diet plan today. Like, just today, like a drug addict. I went back to, back to like how I would when I first got sober. I started applying all these real core cliche principles. Yeah, exactly, just one day at a time, just the old school like.

• 1:07:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Today, what I love about real alcoholics and addicts, when you meet us, we're like, the dudes are no, like, you, if you ask them how many years they've been sober, they'll tell you, but they're like, all that really matters is I've been sober today.

• 1:07:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Like, they, all of those years don't matter, they don't carry them like a trophy. Because they know that they could fuck it up today.

• 1:07:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's like, that was the mentality of like, I'm going to eat good today. You know? Like, even out here, I gave myself grace if I wanted to eat some of, uh, um, Ms. Robbins biscuits one morning, I, I would have.

• 1:07:50Cameron Hanes?

  Biscuits are good.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  And I was okay with that if I didn't.

• 1:07:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  If I did or I didn't, but I woke up every day and I just, instead I told my mind, I was like, you know what? Because I gave myself the choice to eat the biscuits, I'm not. Today, I'm gonna choose. Today, I'm gonna choose. You know what I mean? Like, and I just continue to, you know, I just continue to push. So I still live that very today thing, especially with my eating.

• 1:08:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Like, I just gotta eat good today. That's all that really matters. I gotta make good decisions. Like, I gotta, the only food decision I gotta make today is one. It's dinner and I'm gonna make a good one.

• 1:08:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, it's my next meal, just, that's all that matters.

• 1:08:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, I like that. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, it just has me wondering, so, 500 pounds, need help to get up, all this, and this is after you actually made some, some gains, you did the 5K. Where does it turn into like, um...

• 1:08:41Cameron Hanes?

  An ultra marathon.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:08:43Cameron Hanes?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  The big, big goals.

• 1:08:44Cameron Hanes?

  Where does that happen? Is it, is it the small wins along the way?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  That's the, ooh, I'm sorry to cut you off, but you just made me see a good example because we talked about it privately. I've told you, I've sent Cam Haynes a message. We should, uh, I don't know if we should post it now or save it for a real good time. But when I see him, I'm like, bro, we're gonna run a ultra marathon together one day. Like, I'm that dialed into this thing, you know? And, um, I think it's like, once again, it's me telling my mind. My mind is already like, you're gonna do a marathon. But my mind's also, but, but my mind's smart enough. That's what it's thinking forward. But backwards, it's telling the body, you're just getting ready for a half marathon and march, baby.

• 1:09:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  You just tell yourself you're gonna, because you know what? You're gonna do it.

• 1:09:21Cameron Hanes?

  Well, it's, it's like, it's like the eating, this one day at a time. It's like, you can't do that half marathon unless you can do a run every day.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:09:30Cameron Hanes?

  Or get out there to get some steps or be active or eat well. You're not gonna do that unless you do today.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Today, exactly. It starts with breakfast. I gotta eat it. Okay, it starts with, it starts with waking up. I, I still fasted run for my first, because I still do three to five a day. So it's easier that way for me. So I still just wake up, drink a little water, hop on the treadmill, go get in the neighborhood. You know what I mean? Like, okay, I won that first battle. First battle done. Only got one other battle. I'm gonna go eat breakfast and I've already, and at that point, I done did my run. So all I'm thinking about on my run is how good breakfast is gonna be. Not a bad one. I don't wanna put biscuits in me after I ran.

• 1:10:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  I just went out here and fought all my demons this morning. You think I want a biscuit, dude? I just conquered, I beat the devil this morning, dude. No, I won't get it. Somebody got a kale salad for me this morning.

• 1:10:09Cameron Hanes?

  I got house money right now.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, I'm on the up, you know? So it's like, I'm already winning. The momentum is pushing. You know what I mean? And this is my biggest thing to big people. And this is where I wanna be really honest with them. That first year, if you're over 500 pounds or 400 pounds, is really miserable. You don't enjoy one bit of the process besides the, the, besides what the, what you see happening. You will enjoy it.

• 1:10:30Cameron Hanes?

  The changes.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  But every walk miserable.

• 1:10:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  The pain miserable, sleeping hard, posture, everything. I mean, it's just, it's not fun. Um, you're breathing so hard on your walks and it, sometimes you can't think about nothing but just that. Like, you know, like, you're not even getting to enjoy thinking on your walk. You're just like, one breath in, one breath out, but. I just had to keep reminding myself, man, I did this to me. This shouldn't be easy. I deserve this. You know what I mean? Like I should, in fact, I want to remember every moment I'm feeling on here. And I said this early when I started, one day I was out there and I was like, my wife said, how was your run? I was like, I thought I was gonna die out there today. You know, and I was walking. And the next day, when I felt that again, it was the first time I looked at it different. It was, it was your lact, uh, lactate muscle fiber mentality.

• 1:11:15Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  I looked at all of a sudden when it started, when I really thought I was like, when I felt like my heart was gonna go out of my throat. I said, speed up. Test that motherfucker. See what it does.

• 1:11:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  I bet it's resilient. I bet it's strong. You know what I'm saying? Like I bet, you know what it is? This isn't my heart fixing to blow. It's it getting strong.

• 1:11:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  I'm actually feeling the growth of my heart right now. Like this is, I feel it pushing bad shit out. Like I could feel it. Then I started thinking it that way, feeling it that way. Like, ooh, this is the good stuff. I'm in the money now. You know what I mean? And um, just super leaning into that kind of stuff, hitting the hill first. I mean, you talked about that. It's like walking straight up that hill.

• 1:11:53Cameron Hanes?

  It's just, yeah, it's just that, what do you, what message are you telling yourself?

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  What message are, what's the story you're telling yourself?

• 1:11:58Cameron Hanes?

  Story you're telling yourself. Yeah. I like that. And so you, you just changed that to where instead of being miserable and like, you know, what am, what am I doing this for? It's like you could, you could, even though it felt like you couldn't breathe, you turn that into a positive.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Positive. Instead of a reason not to do it tomorrow.

• 1:12:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is me getting stronger, pushing out. Yeah. It's turning into a, yeah, you just spin the narrative, basically.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  Just 100% like what's, what's, and it's also what we're normally telling ourself isn't true. Cause the real narrative it was, it was getting stronger.

• 1:12:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Me and you talked about this, my cardiovascular system's pretty good.

• 1:12:34Cameron Hanes?

  It's great.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  It's great. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't winded. I stayed in zone three and zone four our whole run. I think I spent, of that 5K, I probably spent nine to 12 minutes in zone five, which is a little high. But I mean, I was hitting it hard on dirt and hill. It's like, but it was really like. I felt really good. I mean, I hung out all night. We partied. We went and saw the blinds, drew on some deer. And it's like, we hung out that night. It's like, it didn't affect me at all.

• 1:12:55Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, no.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  So it's time on feet now. Now it's just trash in the body more, you know, but.

• 1:13:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And your body, as we, as we talked about, your body responds to what you ask of it. So you're asking this now, it's going to respond.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  And to the big people listening, there's that magic moment that happens where all of a sudden you never thought it would happen, but you're running with your friends and you're looking and talking about the topography. You know what I mean? And you're having conversations and you're bonding. You know what I mean? Or you're running and you're not just thinking about your next breath. You're thinking about how to be a better husband, how to be a better father, how to be more present in life, how to make better business decisions, how to quit using business as a reason to run from decisions.

• 1:13:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Like, these are the things. Like now my runs, even if I'm alone, I'm getting to get in my spirit and really deal with stuff and like think and get my head clear. And I have the luxury to once or twice a week grab in and be like, yo, I gotta do a recovery two or three miles. You want to bust one out and just chat and we'll laugh the whole time?

• 1:13:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, it's almost like I just gotta go do it. You know what I mean?

• 1:13:49Cameron Hanes?

  You said another, you had another positive, or I mean, powerful story you told on, on Joe's podcast too, that I think fits in right now is when your son was scared to go down where he, I think he broke his wrist on the four wheeler. And you, you were saying that there was a time when you were so into your own struggles, there's no way you could father your, your son or like give him what he needed to, to overcome his fear, right? And but because of, I, I think that either you went on Iran, something like that. But anyway, point is, you're in a, in a better place to even be a better dad and give your son what he needed. He needed somebody to say, hey, you're going to be okay. And I think he went by, went with

• 1:14:34Cameron Hanes?

  you one time and then he did it by himself. But even just being a father. That that took a different mindset for you.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Totally. I haven't I've never shared this story. My brother Scott is um, he was a surveyor, a civil engineer forever. Twenty seven years in the career and I've been begging him to quit his job since I started getting um, popular.

• 1:14:55Cameron Hanes?

  Successful.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Successful, whatever, you know, so I was like, yo, man, please, I need you here. I'm buying all these properties. I'm in all these different businesses. It'd be really cool to have somebody look over my back. You know, my brother's like, dude, I've been in this job twenty years. I love you. Fuck you. So, so I was like, please leave your job. And I finally talked him into leaving his job and um, he's he's helping me with the property management. And he's always been around for me his whole life. He's been just one of the most impactful people. Both my brothers and my sister have just been great to me. And um, I was on the couch one day a few years ago. We were hanging. It was before he even started working four years ago, I guess. And my son was there and my son was probably five at the time. He wanted to go throw a baseball or something. And I remember just having to grab Scott and just kind of be like, hey, man, will you go throw that with him?

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  And that was like one of them. I look back at those moments and the shame I felt.

• 1:15:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  And it was like, I had an even cooler moment now. That same day on the farm, um, we had another one here recently. It's just me and Noah. My brother texts me, we were going to the UT game that night, the basketball game. And he goes, hey, man, you want me to come out to the farm with you and Noah and ride with y'all? Or you just want me to meet you at the UT game? And I used to always be like, yeah, come out here just because, you know, I was so big, I'd be afraid to be with Noah by myself almost.

• 1:16:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, dude, we're straight. We've been, we've been out here for like two days alone. We're partying. Like, we're good. Like, we're having a bonding. Like, we've been wrestling all day. We've been riding four wheels, just me and him. Like, I would have never had the physical capability to spend days and days and days at a time alone with just my son. And then you think that, but that's what I'm supposed to do.

• 1:16:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  As a father, I should be more than, if the world burned down right now and it was just me and him, I should be able to take care of him the rest of his life.

• 1:16:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So it's like, and here I am, not even capable to throw a football with him or baseball with him because I'm so fat. Like, what kind of father am I?

• 1:16:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right, I understand.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Am I hiding behind success here?

• 1:16:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  Like, was it like, you know, like, like, it just started being more introspective.

• 1:16:37Cameron Hanes?

  Because you're famous, all of a sudden it gives you an out, like.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, a double out.

• 1:16:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm I'm famous. I don't, whatever.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a double out. It's like, well, you know, it's like, it's just, and then you look and you're like, no, man, that's not. That's not the right way to be looking about this because but even then, like I told Joe, I was so dark in my head. I was still in a place where I was like, look, y'all, we all know I'm gonna die soon. Like, let's just try to be as cool as possible.

• 1:16:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, let's just all be nice to each other here and have fun and y'all help people out as much as you can while I'm, you know, imagine me like I'm wounded. I'm just, we all know I'm bedding up. You know what I'm saying? Like, just let me bed up, you know?

• 1:17:11Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  Um, and I think that was the energy I even carried around, you know, was I was the Walking Dead kind of, like, you know?

• 1:17:18Cameron Hanes?

  So how how could you set big goals for yourself if, you know, you think you're on your last leg essentially because you're so unhealthy?

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. So when your mind's like, you're gonna wrestle at SummerSlam, the body's like, ha, ha, ha. But when you tell the mind, when the mind tells the body, hey, man, we're just gonna walk to the end of the farm and back.

• 1:17:33Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  And then tomorrow, since we've been doing that a few weeks, we're gonna go right out of the farm and bust up that hill. You know what I mean? You know, like, you've seen it in real life. You know, you were there. So it's like, these were the thoughts, you know? It's your smiling because you've seen the route. You know exactly. You've seen it in your head. It's like.

• 1:17:49Cameron Hanes?

  That was such a great day. I do want to go back to one, not back, but I want to interject. Um, I think there's a stat that says something like 80% of our thoughts are negative.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:00Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and or or 80% of what we worry about never happens. That's what it is. It's so to your point, we worry about all this stuff. It's like, it's this negative energy and nothing ever comes of it. It's just, but it weighs us down, right? And so where I see that is, we put up a video of us running and I think we said, you know, you know, I can't remember what it was, but we did 6.4 miles. And I don't even think I had the pace in there, but I think so. I saw comments from people who I think are in this place where they're, they're just weighed down by negativity. So one guy ended up blocking him because it's just a waste of my time. But he did say that, oh, there's no way, uh, Joey Roll ran 6.4

• 1:18:41Cameron Hanes?

  miles at that pace, at that stride, or something like that. Point is, it's like, How he wasn't here, you did do it, but he wants people to look at stuff and I don't know if it makes them feel bad or if they, I don't know what they feel or why they feel it or why they need to say, no, he never did that, even though we know a hundred percent. There's a hundred percent fact you did do it, but it's just an example of people when they have a chance to be inspired, sometimes they're still letting that negativity screw that up. They could have looked at that and been like, holy shit, how amazing is this? What can I do?

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  What can I do?

• 1:19:18Cameron Hanes?

  And that's what most people are, most people are like, maybe I could do more. Maybe since Jelly Roll's doing that, maybe I could set a goal for myself. That's what, that's what we want the world to have their attitude. We want them to feel good. We want them to be positive, be goal setters. But we know some people aren't going to. So how do we reach those people?

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Right. I don't know, because here's my thing is, guys like that, I thought about this is that in his mind, if I ran six point four miles, okay, then that is a direct assassination on his excuses.

• 1:19:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Every excuse he has, that is, it is the, it is a serial killer of all of his excuses. You know what I mean? Me being able to do that.

• 1:20:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  It's like, cause, because if there, there's not a reason or a caveat or a nuance to why it happened, you know what I mean? Cause I remember, and I'm only conscious of this, I love my mother to death. I don't want to seem like I'm down talking her here. But when I was younger, she's way better now, just so I'm very clear, but she would down talk successful people. That was her personality.

• 1:20:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  There was a reason why people were successful and we wasn't. She, even my uncle, I tell the story of my father, my uncle, she, she did not like my uncle initially. I don't know if she ever ended up liking him, to be honest. She always was all those rich snooties. That's the, they think they're better than everybody because they invested, you know, like that was her mentality. And Michael Biefer never thought that. He was an old country boy. Him and my father were best friends to the day my father died. You know what I mean? They were proud of each other.

• 1:20:45Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  You know, but like she just, she could not accept that somebody was successful because they worked for it.

• 1:20:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like she was just, that was her.

• 1:20:54Cameron Hanes?

  A lot of people are like that.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Because it represents.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  They need an excuse as to why they didn't go for it. Which where I think the problem is, is that more often than not, I think it'd be cooler if people just be like, no, I just like dig where I'm at in my life.

• 1:21:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Like, I love that, um, I was talking to somebody, some high executive, I won't say his name, but a real high executive and I was like, we're talking about his daughter and I was like, of course, now she knows she's financially taken care of because of the father, but he goes, uh, I go, what, what, you know, I think she's gonna go to school to be some businesswoman and she wants to be a school teacher. She like, her heart and soul is always since she was a kid, she wants to teach elementary school. You know what I mean? And he was like, he was fired up about it. You know what I mean? And I thought a man like this would have been upset because his son ended up following in the business and another one, all these other, but he had one daughter that was just like, it was all passion for her.

• 1:21:40Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It was like, this is what she loved to do and like, he's more proud of her. Quietly, I could tell by the way he talked about her than any of his boys that went on to be CEOs and executives.

• 1:21:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Because he knows that, and he's sure they live in there too, but he knows that she is just, every time he says he talks to her, she's just a pig and shit.

• 1:21:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? She's just as happy as could be, you know, and it's like, some people is like, you don't have to look around for an excuse not to do it. Just say, dude, I just love where I'm at in my life right now. That's awesome too. You know what I mean? But don't sit on the internet and shoot us down because we're trying to do something, you know, because we're just pushing a different direction like, and chew the meat and spit the fat. That's my big thing in life. You know what I mean? Like this is for everything I say or do, like chew the meat, spit the fat. What I know for sure is, more people are way inspired by Cameron Hanes and Jelly Roll than people that are at home. More people are putting on their running shoes right now than are looking at them in the corner going, well, I'd do it if, you know, I was a multimillionaire singer. You know what I'm saying? You know, because there are those people, right?

• 1:22:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right. I, I saw the comments too, and I think you addressed it too. Like, oh, all it takes is money.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like money can't run six point four miles. There's nothing you can put in your blood. You can't get a shot.

• 1:22:43Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  That makes you not feel those six point four miles.

• 1:22:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, that's what, that's why I'm here bow hunting. It's like, you can't fake that, dude.

• 1:22:52Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Like, I'm nothing against rifle hunting. I think it's awesome, but you're not sitting a hundred and fifty feet with a cup of coffee, talking to your boy, listening to a podcast quietly.

• 1:22:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like you're thirty five, forty yards away from a live animal that is, that is, that self-preservation is completely kicked in.

• 1:23:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  You know, it's just, it is extremely hard in every way.

• 1:23:14Cameron Hanes?

  You're trying to kill it is trying to stay alive.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:23:17Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  And it's, and it's, it's a totally juxtaposed and it's like, but it's. Not hope somebody hears this and puts on their running shoes. It was not being afraid to be like, "Yeah, dude, I love this." And dude, in that bow I talked about on the show is meditation.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  I've felt very few things in life that take the world away. A good song will do it. Like you get lost in a good song, writing one, or even listening to one where you forget the world's happening until the song's over and you're like, "Play it again."

• 1:23:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  We can get lost one more time. Probably we might be able to sneak our mind into getting lost one more time. We played it back to back, you know? But like you put that, when that sight's there, I don't care if it's a target or a deer.

• 1:23:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  The deer is a lot more exhilarating, but even the target, like I don't care how many times you shoot. I don't know if you feel this way, if it's just second nature to you, but still even whenever I have that target in there, I'm still baby, but I'm still, all I think about is just breathe.

• 1:24:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Where's your pen? You know what I mean? Are you breathing?

• 1:24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  All right, let it go. You know what I mean? You know, like that's all I can think about. I'm not thinking about business, life, or any of my inadequacies. I'm just like, all that matters is this thing in front of me.

• 1:24:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just tunnel vision, focus on the task at hand because you can't be successful archery hunting, shooting a bow, bow hunting, if you're distracted by life.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Cameron Hanes?

  You just, it's just you have to make good decisions. You have to be a hundred percent immersed in the experience and you have to be reading that animal. It's like, um, what I love about it is, and I've said this to you, is the world, the cities, everything, that's not real. That's not real. This is real. Out in the wild, trying to kill an animal is trying to stay alive. We want to eat it. That's as real as it gets. Everything else, just distractions. We're immersed in something, doesn't get any more real than this and, and man has been doing this as long as there's been man.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:07Cameron Hanes?

  So it just feels like when you do it, when you are in an experience like this, you're like, "This feels right. This feels like what I, what, this feels what I should have been doing my whole life."

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:19Cameron Hanes?

  And it's so powerful, but I just love how open you are to the, the whole experience, learning the whole thing. But tell me like,

• 1:25:30Cameron Hanes?

  Becoming a bow hunter, what has that been like? And how did that start? I mean, where did this thought come from?

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Well, our friendship, you know, I remember you came and brought it to a show one time. And it's the first time I'd ever, so I can't rifle hunt, which we talked about.

• 1:25:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  So, but I always wanted to hunt. My son's getting into hunting. He's going with Miles and his son, like lucky for me, Miles, my mentor's son and he were close. So he took me to kill his first turkey this year.

• 1:25:55Cameron Hanes?

  Nice.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  But I, um, and then it was the first time that it started. It's all part of my change and it's all a part of changing my friends. You know what I mean? Of like finding new ways to connect, not being afraid to try new things.

• 1:26:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  Like, I think it's so important. I keep saying I'm 41 years old. I picked up a bow for the first time when I was 40 and I just turned 41. It's been six months I've owned a bow. You know what I mean? But it's like, I didn't forget how gratifying it was to be bad at something. You know what I mean? Like to just absolutely suck. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, how many, you know, everybody jokes when I say I bought a couple of hundred arrows. It's like, yeah, well, y'all didn't see the first 10 I wasted when I got home. They're somewhere in the woods right now. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, God, you've so many, maybe 30. You know what I'm saying? Just completely lost arrows forever. You know what I'm saying? I'm just trying, just didn't get it back right. You know, just like, so many nights leaving, it was like trying to learn the drums. Like you would like, um, there's a joke, you try, if I give you a guitar right now, I can at least teach you to play a couple of chords.

• 1:26:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  In an hour or two, and you can at least like fake it for at least a few minutes for somebody.

• 1:26:56Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  But if I give you a drum set, you're going to leave after two hours confused and pissed off and tired. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like that, there was nights I left with the bow worse than when I started. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you're just like, how am I getting worse at this?

• 1:27:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  So it was just, so, but obviously our friendship, you came to the show and I remember this is the first time I seen one in person. And you ripped it back and dude, you shot it 100 and something yards. Down the Moda Center's

• 1:27:23Cameron Hanes?

  Ramp.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  Ramp into their like loading dock where we go back a house for a venue. So I mean, and you shot it between two semi trucks. It was a sexy shot. And then I remember you handed me the bow, you're like, just try to pull it back. And dude, I could not get it.

• 1:27:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  And I was like, dude, this is insanely strong. And you were like, don't worry, we'll get you. And this is Cam Haynes for you. Right then, you don't think twice. You just immediately go, don't worry, man. We'll get you one that'll be easier, be more fit for you. And then you don't know, but right then you sow the seed. That's what I'm, I look for seeds now in life.

• 1:27:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Like I'm looking for people planting because I'm trying to plant seeds with people.

• 1:27:58Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  You know, I'm walking around with a cup. I want to give people what I got. And if you've got something to pour back, it's, you know, I'm living life like that these days. If you know what, if I gotta give you all my cup and I don't have anything in my cup, that's cool. I just need to go home and refuel.

• 1:28:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's, that's a saying I've, I've seen lately. It's like, you look to see if, or some people look to see if the other person has more than they have. You know? And some people look to see if you need more.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:28:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so it's just that perspective. But you, when you're, so you said something right there. It was a seed you, you were looking to sow or, or whatever. So you planted that seed and you have to be looking for it. Because there's, there's opportunity out there for everybody. But if you're not looking for it, you're going to miss it. So you're, you're, you're actively looking, hey, is there ways I can get better and grow? And archery was one of those things.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  It, it wasn't just a seed for growth when you said that though, Cam. Like for the bow and like for me thinking of self-improvement. It was also the first time that was another belief thing from you. Cause I started my weight loss journey and I right then I was like, Cam's probably seeing me get healthy enough to shoot this thing one day.

• 1:29:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  So I'm then I'm feeling good. I'm kind of peacocking a little bit with that. But then it was the first time that I had blurred the lines of what you do for a living and our friendship. Which was really kind of cool for me in that moment. I was like, it felt like an olive branch. Cause I would have never came to you, because I know it's like when songwriters pitch songs to musicians. You know what I mean? Like I know that you live a life where every corner you turn, somebody's going, take me hunting. You know what I'm saying? Like I know it's like obnoxious. Like when I go to the, used to go to the bar in Nashville, all the songwriters, let's write one, let's write one. Which is, you know, I get it, but it's like, dude, you know what I mean? Like holy shit. Um, so I never wanted to be that guy. So then when you said it, I'd never even considered it because of it. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be Cam's only friend that doesn't bow hunt with him. And that's gonna be what's special to me and Cam's friendship. You know

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  what I mean? Like I had that for a while. It's like uniquely, I'm gonna be the only friend he has that never bow hunted with. And then you said it, I was like, maybe, but even then it was the seed. It would be another year before that seed would start sowing, because I'd lose another eighty, ninety pounds. I'd come back to Eugene, we'd hang out and I'd be like, dude, I'm in shape enough to run Piska.

• 1:30:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  He was like, no way. I was like, well, maybe not run Piska, but I think I can get to the top of it. I was like, I think I can get on top of that monument, you know? And you were like, let's go. And me and you talked about this, because this was me making good decisions. I had a day off between Portland and Oregon. I mean, between Portland, Oregon and Seattle, Washington, I think. And we were staying in Portland and I just drove down on my off day. I was like, I'm gonna spend my off day with you. I drove two and a half hours.

• 1:30:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  For a five hour round trip, just come hang and just go.

• 1:30:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  Cause I just wanted to finally do Piska.

• 1:30:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  And I used to be like, my days off used to be recovery days from alcohol and cocaine.

• 1:30:37Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  Now my day off, this was early, you know what I mean? Think about, so when people see the birthday post, they don't know that you've been, we've been, this has been a theme, you know, of me trying to do behind the scenes where I'm like, yo, yeah, let's go do it. This will be the best thing. And then that day you were like, dude, while you're here, we should go to the bow rack. And I was like, let's go. Like, I'm in, you know, I'm light enough then. I thought I was ready to hunt then. Thank God I had a little, lost a little more weight. But, um, and then Wayne hooked me up with that bow. And I remember shooting that day. And it's kind of like the bug. You know, like when you do some things in life and you know, they kind of nick at you a little differently.

• 1:31:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Or you take to them naturally, like, you know, shooting a basketball. I'm not a great basketball player, but I just kind of naturally in my childhood took to at least shooting a shot. So it's like, I, I felt that for the first time.

• 1:31:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. You shot, I mean, even that first day, you shot great.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  I shot great. I took kind of naturally to music.

• 1:31:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, it was, um, I felt that. And I felt that day in my heart. I was like, we're doing this. And I remember looking at you like, I'm in. Like, if you'll have me, I'll go. You know what I mean? And right then you were like, we'll go on a deer hunt. And you said it right then, you were like, I'll get you to a place, like, you're, you're, you're new to this. So I got a spot for you. He's like, you're definitely not ready to go where I go.

• 1:31:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  But I got a spot we can go. You know what I mean? And I was like, dope. And right then, and then I was like, I'm honored this and I started looking at it like back to the man stuff of like not being able to just spend a day with my son being physically entrenched in that. You know what I mean of like? Now it's like basic stuff. I should be able to, I should be able to hunt with a bow.

• 1:32:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like this is just core man stuff. I should be able to sleep in a tent on the ground. I should be able to go for a hike and do a two or three day trip with just a tent.

• 1:32:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  These are like things that if the world went south on me, I wasn't ready to take care of my family for real.

• 1:32:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  You know, you can't hide behind a mountain of money for that.

• 1:32:28Cameron Hanes?

  I understand that.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like if the world really went south right now, I was gonna have to come find you and Joe and hide with y'all.

• 1:32:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? And be like, feed me, please. Here's my family. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'd like to be able to like meet y'all somewhere.

• 1:32:40Cameron Hanes?

  I think there's a lot of people, a lot of men who feel like that, but they'd never say it.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Cameron Hanes?

  You know, you're that, as I said, you're just so honest, you know, and um, I remember I was at the fights one time and Gerard Butler was there and he was just like, I was down or right behind Joe and he's like, I know celebrities are like there in the VIP up in the front and then I was up there. It was like, so he, he's like, we're just kind of BSing. I'm a, watched three hundred so many times. So Gerard Butler is like the man, right? And uh, he's like, so he's like, why, why are you up here?

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:14Cameron Hanes?

  And I said, oh, I'm, I'm buddies with Joe. He's like, so what do you do? I said, I kill animals with an arrow. He goes, what? I said, I bow hunt. He goes, well, what do you bow hunt? I said, everything. And so then we had this conversation and then he's like, he goes like, well, why? And I said, well, I said, the way I look at it is if you're a man and you don't bow hunt, you're kind of a pussy.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46Cameron Hanes?

  He's like.

• 1:33:48Cameron Hanes?

  That kinda, he goes, that makes sense. And I said, have you hunted? He's like, no, but I thought about it. He goes, I like the idea of it. I said, well, so this is, this is gonna tie in again, but I said, well, I said, yeah, I'd take you hunting if you want to. And so I say that because I tell, I want to share what I do with everyone, with the world. I love it. I love sharing what has changed my life with other people. And so I tell people, like, I'll take you hunting all the time, all sorts of people. And everybody says, just like him, you know how many people actually do it? Not very many. So I said it to you, yes, I'll take you hunting. Yes, we can do it.

• 1:34:33Cameron Hanes?

  But whether anybody actually takes me up on it, it's hardly anybody. I'm fighting every year because I buy these two deer hunts because I want to, I took Cheeto Vera and I took Alexi Pappas. And they had never hunted before, but I love doing it. And I pay for those hunts. And it's sort of expensive for a deer hunt, but I'm like, I can't get in, I can hardly get anybody there. This is free. I'm paying for it. I'm going to share the type of hunting that I grew up doing in Western Oregon. And you said you've always wanted to hunt because there's so many people, men mostly, who said, I've always wanted to hunt. And I'm like, perfect. Here's a chance. Here's the dates. Yeah.

• 1:35:17Cameron Hanes?

  Don't show up. So the, the, the fact that, you know, yes, I did mention it, but then it was you. Yeah, for sure. It had to be you. I can't make people do this stuff. I can't make people care about it. I can't make people, you know, you say, you know, you have to be, um, it has to, you, you have to be available to take this in and to change from it, right? And you are. So people say all these things, but you, you are one of the few who actually follow up and have, now you've grown and now people are seeing this. And now everybody's like, I want to do that too. And I'm like, you say you want to do it, but do you? Yeah. And you said, and you are, you know, and that's, that's, there's a huge difference between. People like that.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Dig it, do it. It's like go and go try. That's what I encourage people to do because either find out it's not your thing or find out it lights a soul on fire. But more than anything, Kim, it's like, I just wanted to be a better core man. Like, I wanna like hunting, like, um, running, being able to walk long periods, hiking, being able to hold my body weight.

• 1:36:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  These are things when you're a prison to a fat suit, you don't even think about like in extreme emergency, I couldn't pull myself out of a hole. You know what I mean? Like, I can now almost. I'm still not a full pull up, but I want to be able to do 10 pull ups, 100 push ups. I got these like super weird things that I think are just like, super just, we should basically be up. I'll give you what I'm doing right now. It's funny, funny. We'll talk more about hunting too, but this is funny. I realized that I don't know anything about any basic handyman stuff.

• 1:36:52Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  That like I am that dude in my household. It's like has to call my brother. We have to call somebody like the toilet paper rolls had fell off and I couldn't figure out how to get them in. And I could have, I just didn't tinker with it. You know what I mean? And right then I was like, who am I to my wife? You know what I mean? That like, I can't hang a TV. I mean, I can hang a TV, but like, you know, I can find a stud, but that's about as far as my skill set goes.

• 1:37:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  So now it's like, once a week I pick a project, get on YouTube and I try to build something or put something together while I'm home. You know what I mean? Like I should be able, in the next year or two, I told my wife by the, by the age of 45, I'd like to be able to fix any basic problem in our house. You know what I mean? Like at any given moment, like any kind of just small drainage stuff. Like I'd love to be able to do, if I had to pull a pipe out, put a pipe in, I'd, I'd love to just be able, basic, figure it out. Not just be like a complete.

• 1:37:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, call somebody, gotta call, call the plumber.

• 1:37:48Speaker 01

  You know, like, I'd rather just be like, dude, it's a, it's a, let me just see what it is. You know what I mean? Like, let me pull the drain out and see.

• 1:37:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  I want to be able to change oil in a car.

• 1:37:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  You know, so like you, you offering a bow hunting experience was on my list. It was like, yo, I want to hunt and I can't hunt with a gun. And it's also kind of my way of like, I used to use that as a reason of like my anger at the government.

• 1:38:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  It's like people like you hunt, I'd be like, no, I can't hunt because the government took my rights back to being a victim and I did something wrong.

• 1:38:14Cameron Hanes?

  It'd give you a little opportunity to get on a soapbox about something and bitch.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. A little bitch, me, me, me. I committed a crime. Now they won't let me shoot a gun. You know, it's crazy when you think about how you sound in hindsight to be like, you know what? I could have hunted all that. Nothing in the law prohibits me. I got, uh, Rihanna got my hunting license super easy when I got here. She handed me this thing. I filled it out. Got a tag.

• 1:38:39Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  It was that easy. You know what I mean? I just got to shoot it with a bow, which is luck. That's all I brought to shoot it with.

• 1:38:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you could have been saying, yeah, I can't rifle hunt, but I can bow hunt. You could have been like excited about it instead of been like, yeah, the me, I say I can't own a firearm. Can you believe I can't be within a thousand feet of a firearm? It's not bullshit. I mean, but it, so yeah, you could have been like that, but you're like, oh, I can bow hunt though.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  Yep. Even like when we talk about it, I was like, yeah, man, can't hear a gun. And we talked about it for like two secs, move right on. But yeah, but I bow hunt. That's where I'm at now. You know, I hope I get the gun right back one day, but if not, cool. I got a bow.

• 1:39:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Right.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  And I'll bow hunt and I'm a bow hunter now. Like I'm gonna bow hunt. Like I, I love it, man. The lessons I've already learned in that blind will exceed way beyond blind lessons. Like I'll remember them every time I get in a blind now, you know, but like the life lessons that come out there and.

• 1:39:29Cameron Hanes?

  So tell me, yeah, tell me, tell me about like the, just cause now we've been here a few days. We've been in, in the blind for hours.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Hours.

• 1:39:38Cameron Hanes?

  Hours being like dead silent, not moving. What's that been like? You know, as far as, cause your normal life is, you know, putting on shows, crowd thousands of people. You know, you're this larger than life figure, your jelly roll, right? Everybody knows you, everybody face tats. And now you're in a, in a bow hunting blind.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:40:02Cameron Hanes?

  What, what's that? Tell me about the difference and what that's been like.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Nothing is more of a, um, it couldn't be two opposite worlds. Complete chaos, pandemonium, traveling 300 days a year, two to three flights a day. I'm gonna log like 300 flights this year or something, 400 flights this year. It's gonna be crazy, like a ridiculous amount of number of flights. And then to being sitting in the still of silence. I seen the sunrise for the first time not on cocaine in 20 years. You know what I mean? Like the last time I seen a sunrise, I was blowed out of my mind.

• 1:40:37Cameron Hanes?

  It's because you're up all night.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, my, my, man, I look like an owl. My pupils look like dimes. You know what I mean? They were just, all you could see was black. I look like a deer. I had deer eyes. You know what I mean? It was just the last time I seen.

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  I'll always remember hearing the morning wake up. Like, I never experienced that that deep in the Texas desert. You know what I mean? Like, I've just, when I go home, I'm gonna beat the sun and go do a sit, even though I can't shoot nothing. First of all, I'm definitely gonna put me a little bow blind down by the creek. Just, I know a little spot they go drink at, just in case. But, um, I got the trail cams tracking them. But I'm gonna go sit in one of the rifle stands and just experience, I've never experienced that at home. That like, I never even realized that cam until he was like, nothing's awake. Cause remember we heard that first deer crunching?

• 1:41:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, well, so how it works, like, um, you're in the blind early, well before sunlight, or sunrise.

• 1:41:38Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, generally it gets a little colder right before the sun comes up. So I don't know how, how it works, but it's kind of cool already. You're sitting there, you're not moving. So, you know, the, when the chill can kind of seep in your clothes a little bit. But we got hoodies, we got things on, we're good to go. But you can feel it get a little colder and it's just dead quiet.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  I mean, the most quietness I have ever heard in my life. You can hear everything.

• 1:42:04Cameron Hanes?

  There's, there's a doe out there, um, there's corn out there they're chewing on and we could hear it like it was, like we were chewing it in our, in our own head, basically. Like we're eating cereal.

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  I thought he was, I thought he was in the, like Captain Crunch. I thought he was in the blind. And we couldn't even see him. It was so dark.

• 1:42:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so dark.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  All we could hear, I couldn't see you, you couldn't see me, dude. Eerie, dude. That was my first ever morning blind experience. So, I mean, just like.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Never, and it wasn't until the next morning that you showed me what was happening.

• 1:42:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so tell me about the, the woods waking up.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Dude, so I was like, the next morning, I'm finally like, why is it so quiet? Cam put his finger up, he's like, I'll tell you. And then all of a sudden, I heard one bird, he said, right before that sun breaks, I won't whisper, he said, right before that sun breaks, he was whispering, okay, real, like a crazy whisper. I've never whispered this much in my life either. He goes, most whispering I've ever done has been this week. And he goes, uh, he goes, the first thing you'll hear is a bird. He was like, it'll be one, you'll hear one bird. And literally, right before the day, day break, you heard a, and it was, it sounded like a gunshot. It was so loud.

• 1:43:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  And then I could hear rustling, like, uh, like insects or just like the small rustles. And more birds, and more birds, and more birds, and more birds, and then more rustling, and then a little wind. I was like, the wind didn't even come until after the sun broke the horizon. It's like, and slowly, you just start watching the world wake up.

• 1:43:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  And I thought about how many times in my life as an adult man, I spent only thinking about the human side of the world waking up. You know what I mean? Like, I just ride around in car after car, plane after plane, just high fiving people along the way, and never even thinking about what's actually happening in the world. Like, I watch, not the, not the world we call the world, that's not the real world. We don't make up the real world. The real world is the eighty percent of the earth we're not touching.

• 1:44:05Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where we're scared to go. You know what I'm saying? That's, because that's what it was before us. We were having to walk through there with our peckers hanging out and blowing arrows, and you know what I'm saying? It was a totally different time, you know?

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Never experienced nothing like it. Beautiful, the birds, the beauty, the mother nature. We got a badger our first day, you remember that little badger that walked in between?

• 1:44:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Just like, I'd never seen, I've seen a bobcat, I've never seen a bobcat, I've experienced so, tracks.

• 1:44:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  You taught me the difference between a, like a cat track and a,

• 1:44:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and a coyote track.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  A coyote track, yeah, yeah, more round.

• 1:44:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  For a cat.

• 1:44:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, triangle, and, yeah, there's, yeah, there's like, uh, There's so much to learn out there, but what I like, so something about, you know, nature waking up, we're kind of tricked. You know, you talk about the, the, we're in the 80% of the world that's not inhabited is what we're talking about waking up. But the other part, like you go to Vegas, they have every light on. You don't know what time of day it is, right? You don't know that nature's waking up, sun's going down, sun's coming up because they want you to think it's day all the time. Well, we're at home, lights are on, everything's on, we're staying up all night. But when you're actually immersed out here into this and then you're, then you're part of nature

• 1:45:20Cameron Hanes?

  and you're, you're appreciating it, it's, it just feels like, oh, this is, this is how I'm supposed to live. What have I been? I didn't know this. This feels, it just feels like, I don't know, it's, um,

• 1:45:37Cameron Hanes?

  it's so healing is what I always think about. I always say the mountains heal, but nature specifically heals. And it feels so healing just to be there and just to be, just observe it.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:48Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and just be part of it.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, I had as much fun on the days I didn't get a shot. Well, not as much, that's a lie. When you get a shot, it's way more fucking fun. I'm not gonna lie. That's the truth. But I had, I, I enjoyed the days that we didn't get a shot. Like genuinely, like they, they were still special to me because all the learning from it, experiencing the nature waking up, seeing these things for the first time, like being that close to animals, wild. You know what I mean? Like just seeing these kinds of things, like knowing that coyote was sitting next to our blind the other morning, all morning. Like just that eeriness of like, there's a full blown coyote three feet outside of this blind. You know what I mean? Like just, those are the things that I've never experienced, man. And I think that we're, and I know it sounds hokey, but.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Any human, especially men, who haven't at least went and experienced that once in their life, you don't know it wakes up something in you genetically. Like, there's a DNA thing that happened when I put that first deer in that site.

• 1:46:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  That I never expected to happen.

• 1:46:52Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Of like a natural reaction. I actually kind of spent inside baseball, we've never talked about this, it'll be a break on the podcast. I spent most of my life thinking when it finally came time, I wouldn't want to do it. I'd be like, wow, you know what I mean? But like-

• 1:47:05Cameron Hanes?

  To kill something.

• 1:47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Polar opposite. It was like I understood the full cycle of life in that moment. You know what I mean? Like, I understood who we were in that moment, who they were in that moment. I understood that it was, it's been a tale as old as time, all the way back in the Bible. You know what I mean? And that this meat is going to feed a lot of people back home and that, you know what I mean? Like, and that, you know, this deer's on his way out either way.

• 1:47:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It was just such a different, it's hard to explain, but it's a DNA thing. And I just think, and maybe, maybe not every man will feel it, but I think every man should give themselves a chance to experience it.

• 1:47:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  And at least find out if it awakes something in them genetically they didn't know was in them. Because I know now-

• 1:47:42Cameron Hanes?

  I agree.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  I'm going to start planning my touring schedule around hunting season.

• 1:47:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  I wondered why Morgan and all my buddies, Riley Green and all them dudes literally tour around hunting season. You know what I mean? It's like, I get it now.

• 1:47:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:54Speaker 01

  It's like, I totally understand.

• 1:47:56Cameron Hanes?

  What, uh, so all you've experienced so far has been so positive, but to, to the, I, I guess, building on that, when you do kill your buck, and then, to me, what I always tried to explain to new hunters, and I did this with Alexi specifically, but you walk up to that animal and it's dead, and I said, "We need to think about this. We need to think about what this means. We killed this. That's a big deal."

• 1:48:29Cameron Hanes?

  People kill things all the time with money, every day, to survive. But we, and I told her, I said, "You killed this deer. You're, you're alive. It's dead. We're going to eat it."

• 1:48:44Cameron Hanes?

  There's a lot, there's a lot there. There's a lot there to consider. This animal sacrificed this life for us to survive. So it's a, there's very deep meaning in being a hunter, killing an animal. Like I said, animals are trying to survive. We're trying to kill them. This sounds very simple, very complicated. And there's a lot of emotion in that. And so that's, I'm very excited for that because I know it's gonna, it's gonna resonate with you. It's gonna, you're, you're a deep feeling human.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:16Cameron Hanes?

  And that's why you're here. That's, that's a big part of why you took on this challenge. It's a big part of why it means so much because that's who you, I mean, you said it's in your DNA, but like you, the type of person you are, just that feeling, emotional person, that's, that's, that's hunting is so, is even more powerful to somebody like you. So that's why I'm like, I'm so much looking forward to, I feel like, you know, I'm, I'm trying to make this hunting experience positive and not have pressure on it, but man, I want you to succeed so bad.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Dude, me too. What do you mean? Golly.

• 1:50:01Cameron Hanes?

  So bad.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Circling the wagon has been quite a journey.

• 1:50:04Cameron Hanes?

  I just can't, I just can't wait for that moment when it, the hard work pays off and there's success and then we're there.

• 1:50:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12Cameron Hanes?

  And it's gonna happen. But tell me about, has, has bow hunting, is it harder than you thought it'd be? Or is it about what you thought it'd be?

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  I thought it was gonna be really hard. I didn't think it was gonna be really, really, really hard. So I was off. But I really came in here like knowing this was gonna be a different kind of a thing. Like it was gonna be, when you said this to me earlier, it was crazy that you said 80% of bow hunters fail every season. Like, wow. And I totally get it. And I think that's a personality thing too, of those, those that come back and don't kill it this year. The 80% that go home and tell their wife, next year, honey. And they're out on their back porch all year with their bow.

• 1:50:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yep.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Those are the, those are the men that are different.

• 1:50:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  And um, I'll be back next year regardless.

• 1:50:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like that's who I know I am.

• 1:50:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I have no doubt now.

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  Just like I was the first, like I tell people, if you've seen my first 5K, nothing would make you think I was gonna sign up for a ad marathon. You know what I mean? So it's like, I never judge where I'm at on the start no more. It's like you said, I'm on the right path finally.

• 1:51:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Cam poured into me yesterday, y'all. He said, look, man, I was talking about bow hunting. I just feel so far behind. He was like, but you're on the right path. He's like, you're finally on the path to being a bow hunter. Now you just gotta go. Like, yeah, there's people that are way better because they've been on the path a lot longer.

• 1:51:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  And there are people that might pass you because they're running the path faster. He's like, but you're finally on the right, just stay on the path. And that was so deep. You know what I mean? It was like, like the same thing for me was in health. Like, once I finally got on the right path and I felt the momentum of that direction coming, even though it took a year to get the momentum.

• 1:51:39Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  You were like, oh, this is, you're right. This is the right path. It's like, I know, I know what the law of attraction is and the law of human work says that as long as I'm willing to put in the hours, genuinely and fully.

• 1:51:52Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:51:52Speaker 01

  Honestly and wholly, then it'll pay off.

• 1:51:54Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? That as long as I'm not cheating.

• 1:51:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? As long as when I go home, I'm actually shooting my bow.

• 1:52:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  As long as I'm actually, you know what I mean?

• 1:52:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  It's like, that's how, that's how it works. I can only get better. You can't get worse.

• 1:52:06Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  As long, I don't care what you're doing in life. If you follow those steps, you're being genuinely honest to yourself about the amount of work you're really putting in. You are actually putting in that amount of work. This goes for anything you're trying to do in life. And you are being held accountable to when you're not doing it to the best level you can and for, and you're getting back on track as fast as possible with a little time off. There's no way you do not gain progress in any direction in life. You wake up tomorrow and decide to start going. You just take one foot in front of that direction and be whole, honest with yourself accountable about what direction you're going. Brutal truth. And man, as long as you're holding yourself accountable and you're putting the true hours in, you can't, my daddy did teach me that.

• 1:52:46Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  He's like, there's, I almost quit doing music before, right? Probably four years before it really, really, really exploded for me. And I sat him down and I was like, I might just have to go get a job. I was like, Roger's, my oldest brother's still in the meat business. He's actually running his own company now. He's killing it. Love you, Roger. But um, I was like, maybe I just call Roger and see if he'll give me a job.

• 1:53:05Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  You know, and my dad was like. Dude, are you really working as hard as you tell me you are? I was like, yeah. I was like, yeah. He was like, are you really doing 200 dates a year in a van? I was like, I really am, dad. He was like, there's no way it's not gonna work. If you're really putting in that amount of hours, like truly, not halfully, not fakely, like really putting in those hours and learning from them and being accountable when you're doing it wrong.

• 1:53:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  And correcting those mistakes along the way. He's like, it's gonna work. I wouldn't quit if I was you. He's like, I feel like if you were going to college to be a doctor, you've got eight years. You're getting close to getting that doctor degree, son.

• 1:53:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's good advice.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  And it was real. It was like, and that was a moment of like, he's right. Cause I knew, and I had to do self-reflection. And go, am I talking about being a musician or am I trying to be one? And I realized I wasn't talking about being one. I was living it. I was going and doing shows. I was getting in front of people all the time, consistently getting in front of people. So I knew that it was gonna work.

• 1:53:59Cameron Hanes?

  Just like shooting a bow, you're getting your reps in.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  Get your reps in, dude. I just need more time in front of animals.

• 1:54:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, you know, I think that's a good lesson for people too, cause we know there's a lot of people out there who are posting like they're working out, like they're doing all the stuff right and they're not changing. Right? And so to your, as your dad mentioned, is like, are you really doing what you're saying? Because a lot of people do just enough to make a post.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  That's it. Just enough to make a post.

• 1:54:25Cameron Hanes?

  And then, and then, and then for, for you to say like, if you're being honest about your effort and you're truly putting in effort, you are gonna see those results. So the people are saying that, oh, I've been doing this and I didn't get the results Jelly Roll had. He must have taken whatever. It's like, hmm, or maybe you're not doing quite what you're, what you say you're doing.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Say you're doing.

• 1:54:48Cameron Hanes?

  But Jelly Roll is. That's the difference.

• 1:54:51Speaker 01

  That's the difference, dude, is that are you actually going to do? Is that we, I didn't, back to the guy with the stride comment. Right? First of all, just for the record, not that this matters, but every time we posted a run together now, we post the end of the run.

• 1:55:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  We'll talk about this because I can't say with who, but the first 30 minutes of that run, I did a phone interview.

• 1:55:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  That's why we didn't film it. I literally was, you were having, y'all, y'all were coming back to check on me. Me and Rihanna was behind y'all because obviously y'all are running a dog or a pace and I, you feel me? And you'd come back and check and just see if I was still on the phone. You were like, I'll run with you when you're done off the phone. Run back up and catch up with the boys and come back. And finally, when I got off the phone. So like, what the first 30 minutes of that hour and 12 minute run, I was literally doing a phone interview. It's gonna be in a famous magazine, sortly. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, I just, but so the stride you always see with us is at the very ass end. When we hit that hill on our, uh, our post that went viral on your page from that run on my birthday, that was the last time we hit that hill that day. You know what I mean? That was the third time we hit that.

• 1:55:52Cameron Hanes?

  And you ran the whole thing.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  I ran the whole thing. Of course, my stride was, of course, I was running my slowest and lowest. It was over. God, at that point, I was just trying to get home.

• 1:56:02Cameron Hanes?

  So instead of looking and being one of the people out there trying to pick it apart, just be like, hey, maybe this is the end of the run. Maybe like what you just said. And maybe, maybe it is legit. There's a chance that what we put out there is legit. If, if you're willing to look at it that way.

• 1:56:20Speaker 01

  It's like, it's like when I talk, can I, can I share the Truitt story? You think he's comfortable with that? I talked to Truitt the other day on your phone and I was like, we were talking about his most recent marathon. And I think he hit the goal, but he already missed it by a second, right?

• 1:56:31Cameron Hanes?

  He got, he got under 230, so he got 229. He, he just, that was always the goal is sub 230. He, in his head, he wanted to get a little faster, a few minutes faster.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  Like his PR time, right?

• 1:56:44Cameron Hanes?

  But didn't happen that race.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  But the thing is, is like I told him, I was like, that's because you set realistic goals for you, not the internet. You know what I mean? Like, and never do that, dog. Like, it would have been easy for me. To sandbag doing that 10K with you the other day.

• 1:57:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:01Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like even when we got to five miles, that was our goal was to do my first five miler.

• 1:57:06Cameron Hanes?

  See, that was all you. No, nobody said, we're gonna do 10K today. You said it.

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  I said it.

• 1:57:11Cameron Hanes?

  And I, I, in my head, given these conditions, kind of the sandy, tough running road, rolling hills, five miles would be a lot and it's, and it's warm.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:22Cameron Hanes?

  And so that, that, that would have been still a win, five miles, but we got to five and you said, I want to do a 10K.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  It's like, dude, we gotta do it. This is our first chance. I was like, dude, I don't want to be that, that be our story goals. I thought about you and Max. I was like, do I want the story to be, I did my first five miles with Cam or I knocked out a 10K?

• 1:57:39Cameron Hanes?

  10K.

• 1:57:40Speaker 01

  I was like, we gotta go do this. But it's like, I told Tru, it's like, it would have been easy for me to come over here and just sandbag it from go and be like, yeah, man, we just knocked out a 5K in under 41, 37 minutes. It'll be cool for me, you know, like, it'd be my PR.

• 1:57:53Cameron Hanes?

  You still get a lot of attention. You still get a lot of positive feedback. You still would have got it, but you would have known I had more in me.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Had a lot more in me. I knew that at five miles. That's why I looked at you like, Cam, I know I got another mile in me.

• 1:58:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  For sure. I don't know if I got one point three or four, but I got another mile in me for sure.

• 1:58:08Cameron Hanes?

  You did.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, I know that that's those moments of like, and that's why I am a Truett fan.

• 1:58:13Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Is because I see past the like, like, I see a young kid that's brave enough to swing a really big bat in front of people.

• 1:58:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  Like in a crazy way, you know, like, um, I know some people think he's probably like cocky, but like you're supposed to be when you're 25, broke the pull up record, push up record or whatever. You know what I mean? Like they're supposed to have a little bit of like you in you. You know what I mean? Like you don't run hundreds of miles and run paces at marathons like that with not having just a little bit of a dog.

• 1:58:40Cameron Hanes?

  You gotta believe in yourself.

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  A little bit of everybody. I'm going to figure this out in you. You know what I'm saying? There's something about you that has to.

• 1:58:46Cameron Hanes?

  That's a competitor.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you gotta want to win.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  You gotta want to go for it. So it's like, and I, I told him the story and I'll tell this publicly is that whenever me and my booking agent first talked about going out in the amps, it was a real conversation. It was like, should we risk, should we only book the smaller ones? You know, the 8,000 or 4,000 ones that we know we can sell the tickets to, or do we risk going to the bigger places?

• 1:59:10Cameron Hanes?

  And not selling out.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  And not selling out, potentially, or having, having seats.

• 1:59:14Cameron Hanes?

  Empty seats, yeah.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  And then you look around, you have to worry if your fans look back and go, are we the only people that like this guy? You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, they were having these talks and I was just like, man, I don't think God brought us this far not to swing, y'all. You know what I mean? Like, I'd rather go out there and embarrass myself and not sell as many tickets and know that I just put it all on the line. And strategy says, the record business says, play the small room, blow it out, and make it look bigger than it is.

• 1:59:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yes, they sold out.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Yep, optical illusion.

• 1:59:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And I was like, I don't care, I wanna, but I, I'm not here for the look. That's why I love Truitt, he don't care if he gets hated on, because it's, it's his personal goal. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, pick on me because I didn't hit it, but this is me.

• 1:59:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and.

• 1:59:52Speaker 01

  And if you haven't learned anything.

• 1:59:53Cameron Hanes?

  And we're not over yet, it's not over yet.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  What do you, and if you, and that's what I was gonna say, if you haven't learned anything else, I'm gonna try again.

• 1:59:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's like, that's that like, I don't care about the look of selling something out, I care about people actually caring about the music. And I want as many of them in front of the stage for an affordable price as possible.

• 2:00:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  And the smaller the room, the more money you charge for a ticket, because the higher the tickets in demand. Like, I'd rather go out there and just have cheap tickets and be able to give twenty, twenty-five dollar lawn ticket steal, like whenever I was a kid.

• 2:00:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  You know, at least as true to it as we can stay.

• 2:00:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And, uh, you know, we blew them all out. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that's how it works, but we took the big swing. So like, when I look at Truitt, I'm like, that's a kid that's not sandbagging himself. That's a kid that like, is really putting, you could tell, he could've went to the internet and be like, hey, man, if I just do this under two thirty-five, it's my first Olympic trial course, y'all just stick with me, I'm really trying hard. He could've took a whole different approach.

• 2:00:45Cameron Hanes?

  Could've.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  But instead, he's like, no, dude, I know who I am as a human, and I got this number in me, and I'm gonna put it up one day.

• 2:00:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:51Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna try to put it up every time I lace up my fucking shoes.

• 2:00:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:54Speaker 01

  Until I put it up, and then y'all are gonna hate me, because I'm gonna come up with a new number, a new thing. You know, I saw, yeah, Truitt, I love you, brother, you know that. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:01:02Cameron Hanes?

  Well, what, one thing, and we talked about, you know, are you really doing what you say? Because I've, I've asked him too, like, he trains a lot, he, he's, he's obsessed, but anybody who's great at anything is obsessed in some way, otherwise you're just not gonna be great. But I'll ask him, I'm like, are you running like, at the end, are you just pushing yourself, are you just actually sprinting? Because that, that's when you get the, the gains. But when you're putting in a hundred mile weeks, fourteen miles a day. There's days where you're just like, I'm not sending it today. But I asked him, I said, are you, I mean, how are you finishing your runs? Are you sending it? Or are you just like, just

• 2:01:41Cameron Hanes?

  like a good pace? And he sprints, he's sprinting through his neighborhood every run. And it's like, that's just inner drive. So people see like, and they think, maybe think it's like, oh, this is internet thing. He's an influencer. He's jacked. He runs in jeans. It's like a little gimmick. But don't get confused. This kid grinds.

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  He runs.

• 2:02:05Cameron Hanes?

  He grinds.

• 2:02:07Speaker 01

  It's like, and you can't, I love that he runs in jeans. I said that joke on the Rogan podcast. I love that. I love because that's where I love the music business. Like dude, like let people that are supposed to stand out, stand out. Show your personality. I love when people are colorful people. I love when people aren't. I love quiet people like Mr. Tim here at the ranch, the most quiet dude here. I love him just as much as everybody else. You know, I love them all. It's like, I love the personality of that. Like dude, like that's the shit, but it's, um, it goes back to don't matter in what manner he's doing it, he's doing the work. Yeah. Like you can't deny the work is there.

• 2:02:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's not up for debate. That's not, you can talk all the shit you want, but just know, he's grinding. He's putting in more work than almost maybe Goggins is putting in a little more, but that's about it.

• 2:02:53Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, I'll give you this, the, the food addiction stuff is the opposite. So I have guys that I'm counseling with that are bigger guys. And a few of them have really big social media platforms and they get a lot of attention on those social media platforms for their weight loss. But they're not seeing the results they want. They're not seeing the results they think they should. But what's happening is between me and you is they're doing the work because of the collapse that come with the work. But then they're going home and they haven't conquered the food addiction part. So they're treading water. They'll lose a couple pounds here and there, 30, 40, 50. I mean, you know, you keep working out, they'll lose big weight. But it's that whenever we get on the phone, it's just us. They're going, man, I'm trying to understand why I'm not seeing a consistency in the weight laws. And I'm like, Bubba, we gotta do some work on the food addiction. Cause like, it's so easy to show the work.

• 2:03:37Speaker 01

  But it's the stuff that's not being filmed.

• 2:03:39Cameron Hanes?

  It's not sexy.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:03:41Cameron Hanes?

  It's like the portions.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, all you see is the moment Truitt's talking shit in the camera.

• 2:03:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:45Speaker 01

  You don't see him suffering the other 24 miles.

• 2:03:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:03:48Speaker 01

  Of course, my, of course, my stride looked like shit on mile 6.2, the first time I ever did it.

• 2:03:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  You should have seen me at mile one, I looked like a stud. I had my shoulders back, you know what I mean? Head forward, like what a postured running man.

• 2:04:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:01Speaker 01

  You know, but it's like there's, there was actually real suffering there.

• 2:04:04Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  It's like with, with that is you gotta go home. It's what's done in the dark that does the most work.

• 2:04:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  We only show you the snippet of the work to inspire and encourage and show people do the work. Like, let's all do the work together and create a culture of cheering people on doing it.

• 2:04:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:18Speaker 01

  Because that's where it gets good. I'm looking at me and Rogan's pod this morning and all I see is comments of people sharing their stories. Hey, man, I'm sober, went through this, lost my mother, battled this, 500 pounds, 300 pounds, 200 pounds. Like, all these really cool stories of, like, community of people uplifting each other. We post to hope we create that kind of a community.

• 2:04:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:04:37Cameron Hanes?

  That's the goal.

• 2:04:38Speaker 01

  That's the goal, but where we, we got to where we are for the shit that didn't make the post.

• 2:04:42Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  Those 60 second reels or those seven minute YouTube videos that Truitt puts out or like my weekly vlogs where I'm on the treadmill trying to encourage people?

• 2:04:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:50Speaker 01

  I was, where I really won the battle was every time I sat down at the kitchen table.

• 2:04:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:54Speaker 01

  Every single time. You see me here?

• 2:04:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  You watch, you see the discipline in a real way.

• 2:04:59Cameron Hanes?

  Very disciplined.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  It's like everybody else is eating casseroles and having, I mean, it's hard not to wanna protect. I mean, Ms. Robin is putting her foot.

• 2:05:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah, she's so good.

• 2:05:07Speaker 01

  But it's like, that's just not.

• 2:05:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:09Speaker 01

  This is what I have to do to get where I'm trying to go.

• 2:05:12Cameron Hanes?

  It's a, you know, there's, I've, I've heard this analogy before too, but, uh, there's people who say, and I think sometimes saying I'm gonna lose weight is like this too, but there's people who say, I'm gonna write a book. They get a lot of attention because they're gonna write a book. Oh, you're gonna write a book? That's great. What's it gonna be about? Oh, here's the thing. So they get that dopamine hit from announcing they're writing a book. It.

• 2:05:38Cameron Hanes?

  It tricks them. So they got the dopamine hit. They got the what they wanted already. They got the attention for it. Then they never write the book.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  Never write the book.

• 2:05:46Cameron Hanes?

  Cause they got it from just saying they're gonna. So people, some people I think follow this, this thing like, hey, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. They get some feedback for it. That's as far as it goes. It's over.

• 2:05:57Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 2:05:57Cameron Hanes?

  But, and I had this slogan, I gave away a truck with this slogan, but what you do in the dark matters. And it's, it goes to what you just explained, but it's, yeah, in the light, everybody sees it as fine. But, and I had another hat that would just say, uh, work all day, train all night. Cause I had a job for a hundred years. I would have to work all day and it'd just be like, well, I'm not sleeping. I'm training all night. So people who that resonated with, which I, I got a lot of positive attention for, like, I was like the nine to five guy, you know, I would do all these crazy bow hunts, have the success, but I'd still be at work Monday through Friday. And I would just say, okay, for guys like me, we work all

• 2:06:39Cameron Hanes?

  day, we train all night. And that was, but the, the point is, it's like, it's not just that, the cool sexy stuff in the light that's getting a lot of attention. It's like when nobody's watching, what are you doing? What are you doing when nobody's watching?

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  It's the hours that, that nobody sees that really, really make the difference. Are you putting in those? And that's why it goes back to what we talked about earlier is that are you really putting those hours in? And that's another accountability. You said it best. Like, are you really putting in the work you say you're putting in or you think you're putting in?

• 2:07:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:07:07Speaker 01

  Did you really push your, are you checking your heart rate to make sure you got it up to a zone three or four? Like you actually pushed yourself to that point?

• 2:07:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  Did you see if you could ride that five for a second and just see where your body went with it? You know what I mean? Like I'm consciously doing that on my runs now. Like I'm, like I'm really putting in the true hours of it. But also, and most importantly for my fellow fatties, men at pantry. Like you just gotta be really honest with yourself about, cause calories are everywhere, brother. You know what I mean? Like they are. All the time, sitting around, in your face, digestible and quick.

• 2:07:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  You know, that two pieces of bread you popped in the toaster because you were hungry with a little butter on it is 290, 320, 450 calories.

• 2:07:50Cameron Hanes?

  You walk by, grab two Oreos or sit on the counter.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  100 calories a piece.

• 2:07:54Cameron Hanes?

  Add up. It all adds up.

• 2:07:56Speaker 01

  So it's like, these are just those little things that are, so you're not like, I love when they get broad strokes. You're like, no, no, no, I ate all my diet. I mean, I had like a little cookie or something. I mean, it was a little cookie.

• 2:08:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Like, let's talk about it. Let's be real with each other. You know what I'm saying? Like, I might have added a little, like, um, I was guilty of this for a while. I would look at this whenever I was trying to do my own weight loss before I hired a nutritionist and learned about calories. I'd be like, okay, this is a calorie thing. All right, there's 250 pieces of cal- a calorie in these two pieces of ham. 120 on the two pieces of bread.

• 2:08:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  It's a 320 calorie sandwich. Now I'll put three teaspoons of mayonnaise on it, uh, mustard, and you know what I'm saying? I didn't realize that I put 600 calories of mayonnaise on the 300 calorie sandwich.

• 2:08:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:39Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Or when you order the chicken salad and then put 600 calories of ranch dressing on it. You know what I mean? It's like.

• 2:08:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, chicken, I'm healthy.

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, or I mean grilled chicken, but I put 12 tablespoons of olive oil on it.

• 2:08:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  It's 120 calories of tablespoon and I'm just, I'm frying my chicken in olive oil. You know, it's like.

• 2:08:58Cameron Hanes?

  So look at the whole picture.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  You gotta look at the whole picture, man.

• 2:09:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  Especially when it comes to nourishment. If you have what I have, like, and I'm getting better because I work enough now that I can eat a little, not, I don't eat worse, but I do have to eat more because I'm running more. So the body starts like.

• 2:09:11Cameron Hanes?

  You need fuel now.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:12Cameron Hanes?

  Now it's not, now it's fuel for what you're doing.

• 2:09:15Speaker 01

  What I'm doing. I still got about 30 or 40 more reserves that I need to give away and I'm getting there. You know what I mean? But then I'll finally be an actually, like, oh, I'm gonna run this much today. I have to eat this much. Uh, you know, like, but right now it's just still constant, like, cut, cut, cut. But that's the, that's the reality of it, Cam, is that I, I win the battle at the table.

• 2:09:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  And I'm glad y'all get to see that.

• 2:09:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, for sure. I've noticed that.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the biggest, it's truly, all this other shit only happens because that.

• 2:09:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:42Speaker 01

  Like, none of, I couldn't be here bow hunting. I couldn't be here running with you. I couldn't be, you know what I mean? All of that exists because every time I put food in my mouth, I look at it, I'm conscious of what it's doing for my body, why I'm taking it, and that's, it's that.

• 2:09:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  Does it help my act, what, what is this doing for me right now?

• 2:10:00Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  A whole new approach to food.

• 2:10:02Cameron Hanes?

  I'm a, I can't remember how the story goes, but um, so, well, there's two, two things I want to ask.

• 2:10:12Cameron Hanes?

  One, where you're at now compared to where you were. It's just, it even just a couple of years ago. To me, you seem like a completely different person. I know they're the same person, same soul, same heart, same everything else, but

• 2:10:26Cameron Hanes?

  how you carry yourself, what you're able to do now is completely different. So that change in such a short period of time should be a huge inspiration to people. But also then you told me a story about your music man tattoo on a, and something your wife said to, to you about, I'm married to music man. Can you tell me that? I can't remember if that's, is that personal?

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm gonna tell the story. I was super, identity is a big thing. And I used to identify and I still do because of my addiction, but in a healthier way, but like piece of shit. Like convict, like these were terms I used about myself.

• 2:11:04Cameron Hanes?

  The self-talk was negative.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  All the time. So even my Instagram bio, when I married my wife, all the way up to like a million followers, said, white trash, piece of shit, reform drug dealer, active alcoholic, uh, scumbag, father, daughter. I mean, uh, father, husband, or something like that. Like just all these like, I don't know if I thought I was being sleek or I was just such a lousy human. I just felt like if I owned it on the front end and people found out I was a lousy human, it'd be.

• 2:11:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It'd be, it's like Eminem saying all his, you know, I, I do live in a trailer park. I do live with my mom.

• 2:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:11:39Cameron Hanes?

  What are you gonna do now? I already said this about myself, so.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm all this stuff, you know? And then I looked at my wife one day and we were talking and she was like, um, and I was like, I just don't even know who I am. You know, I don't even know, you know, I don't, I don't even know, like, and she goes, well, I know one of one thing's for sure. And uh, this moment just like tore me up. She goes, I married a music man. And I was just like. Man, that just like Elton John's famous lyric, married a music man. So I tattooed music man above my head.

• 2:12:09Cameron Hanes?

  Just as a reminder that I am the music man.

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  It's like that, cause even then I was looking at, we were talking about tattoos and all of my tattoos, the memories of them are from my past. So I'm not really proud of any of my tattoos. They only remind me of painful decisions or me trying to be somebody I wasn't, you know what I mean? They're not anywhere, any indicative of who I am. So I was like, this was the first time that I was like, this is who I am.

• 2:12:32Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 2:12:33Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:12:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  Every time I look in the mirror, like that's who, this is my identity. Like I am a music man. You know what I'm saying? Like that's what I do. This is who I am. Like, and it was also cool because I spent my whole life wanting to fit in, but never fitting in.

• 2:12:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:12:47Speaker 01

  You know, like, I don't know if you relate to that feeling in any way, but like always wanting, like looking at all these different crews and clubs or different things. And like, I would try to be a part that just always things just wasn't, you know, like I just never found my identity in anything. It feels just real, it's kind of lonely existence to be around so many people and accepted in so many areas, but still not really know who you are.

• 2:13:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  You know, just know you're always in somebody else's thing, never your own.

• 2:13:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I understand that.

• 2:13:11Speaker 01

  And it's really cool. Like now I know what my thing is. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:13:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:17Speaker 01

  That was big for me. And to this day, it's like one of our cutest little, we got so many matching tattoos.

• 2:13:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I love that. I love that story though, that, that, yeah, you had to, she had to remind you of who you are.

• 2:13:28Speaker 01

  And you gotta reframe it for yourself.

• 2:13:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure. It's, as we talked about, it's just that story you're telling yourself. It's like so powerful, that, that voice, how you talk to yourself.

• 2:13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:37Cameron Hanes?

  So powerful. Um, I'm, I am curious, it's like, how did you, this gift of music, is it like, it's just natural because you haven't had formal training for music?

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  It's an obsession. It's just an immerse, immersive obsession.

• 2:13:51Cameron Hanes?

  It's just listening to music. Um, but like, I've heard you explain like how to sing and talking about like Laney Wilson and her voice. How do you, how'd you learn all that?

• 2:14:02Speaker 01

  Well, just learning to sing, because I had to go from ground, it kind of like bow hunting. Like in this really cool way, I got into bow hunting late, just like I did singing. So I had to like go learn an entire new thing again. Like I had to sit down and figure out what notes were, what key was, what, cause I just wrote from the perspective of feeling. I understood melodies and stuff like that because I, I could hear.

• 2:14:25Cameron Hanes?

  So it wasn't storytelling?

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  It was storytelling, but it was like very like, um.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  It was just always feeling storytelling. Like I knew how stuff made me feel. So how could I tell the story to make people feel that way?

• 2:14:38Cameron Hanes?

  And then the music has to obviously tie into that because that's a big part of the story.

• 2:14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but in hip hop, it was easier because you know, you'd have pre-made tracks.

• 2:14:45Cameron Hanes?

  He's got a beat.

• 2:14:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know what I mean? So then you just put your story over it. So I learned melodies, of course, you know what I mean? But ultimately it was just words and rhythmic driven. So it was just really storytelling is, but then getting into music, you gotta, so I'm like, okay, I don't want to be the only person on Music Row that doesn't know the theory of music. Cause when you get in those rooms, those dudes do the Nashville number system, they talking like they, instead of saying guitar chords, like yo, this is an E minor into whatever. They go, yo, it's a one, two, a three. That's how much they've broken it down to a metric system.

• 2:15:15Cameron Hanes?

  That is that music theory?

• 2:15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's different. It's a Nashville number system. It's a part of music theory, but it's like Nashville has its own unique system that it numbered every chord on the guitar.

• 2:15:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  To make it like easier for session players. So when a session player come in, I wasn't having to chase all these weird chords around.

• 2:15:30Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, it's like in basketball, instead of saying forward, center, guard, it's like one, two, three, four, five.

• 2:15:35Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. He's the one. Exactly. But this chord is a this, this chord is a two, instead of a column this because it worked better that way.

• 2:15:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  And they call the Nashville number system. It's really cool. I haven't fully learned it yet because it is. It's easy. Once you know, if you really know the guitar, it's easy. I'm still learning the guitar. So it's not as easy.

• 2:15:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:54Speaker 01

  But I just wanted to learn and then learning my voice made me start listening to other people. And then it's like, um, okay, I'll give you an example. Every time I always try to relate things to what like, I love bringing things together comparison wise.

• 2:16:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  That anchor point. Of where you pull, like for me, it used to be here, hereish, but now because of the weight loss, it's back here until I get back with Wayne.

• 2:16:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:16Speaker 01

  But it's like that, um, you find where you sing from. That becomes kind of your anchor point.

• 2:16:20Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 2:16:21Speaker 01

  And then you start realizing where other people sing from. You're like, oh, okay. He sings from this part. And like, once again, this is just me learning it from like, oh. Now, when I hear somebody sing, I'm like, oh, they're singing from here.

• 2:16:32Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:32Speaker 01

  This is the area. This is the area. This is the area. They're like, you know, like Tracy Lawrence, one of my favorite country music singers famously sung through his nose.

• 2:16:39Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 2:16:40Speaker 01

  But that was part of his charm. Bob Dylan was like that too, but Tracy was way cleaner of a singer.

• 2:16:44Cameron Hanes?

  Give me an example.

• 2:16:45Speaker 01

  Uh, Bob Dylan would be like, hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me. You know, it's just real nasally.

• 2:16:51Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:52Speaker 01

  And real kind of swingy.

• 2:16:53Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:54Speaker 01

  It wasn't like he was trying to drill the note home.

• 2:16:56Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 2:16:56Speaker 01

  Hey, Mr. Tambourine, like a rolling stone, like a complete unknown. He's hitting the notes, but he's just kind of talking them.

• 2:17:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:17:04Speaker 01

  Through his nose, but he's hitting them in the note because he's a guitarist and one of the greatest songwriters ever. Bob Dylan is the dude. But Tracy Lawrence was more like, uh, won't you pay me a Birmingham? Yeah, uh, little house is the way I am. Little house on the edge of town, poor singing all the way around. Put it there on the front yard swing. You know, like it was just way more, you see how it's more singy, more pretty, it's more songbirdy, but it's still coming through the same spot of it like a rolling stone, like a complete unknown. You know, like that same, uh, sister moves out and run her baby bed. Brother runs around with feathers in his head.

• 2:17:45Cameron Hanes?

  That's nasal.

• 2:17:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of nasal.

• 2:17:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So it, what's an example, like another delivery system?

• 2:17:50Speaker 01

  Uh, so like Laney, we were talking about her because I, I've stood next to a lot of really powerful singers.

• 2:17:58Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  Jennifer Hudson included.

• 2:18:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:00Speaker 01

  You know, Laney's up there. Like Laney's up there with Jennifer. Like when Laney opens her mouth, it goes from the pit of her stomach up through her voice, and then there's something in her voice that gives it a bigger projection. So not only is she singing from the bottom of her gut, it's very gitorial.

• 2:18:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  She's singing it just like this big, powerful voice, like.

• 2:18:23Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:18:24Speaker 01

  Dude, when she's doing that.

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  I can't get that high right now because I haven't been up long enough, but it's like she's like, you see how to turn that far from the microphone. Like Laney is up there, dude.

• 2:18:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  When you see her singing Save Me With Me and the microphone's two feet from her, it has to be.

• 2:18:41Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  She is a anomaly when it comes to singing.

• 2:18:45Cameron Hanes?

  You see, like you see people who sing and they open their mouth, there's just power that comes out. Then there's like, sometimes I think it's sometimes like pop princesses, like, I don't know if Kate McCray has a good voice, maybe she does, but sometimes it's like more of a show than a delivery, like than the power delivery.

• 2:19:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:19:03Cameron Hanes?

  I love the Whitney Houston, like they wouldn't even need a mic.

• 2:19:07Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 2:19:07Cameron Hanes?

  That's how Laney is.

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  No, Luke Combs, Cody Johnson.

• 2:19:10Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 2:19:11Speaker 01

  Cody Johnson, dude, when Cody Johnson sings that last verse of Till You Can't, until you can't, I mean, dude, he is like, he's off that microphone a foot and a half. When you watch him with his guitar like this up on his chest, you know, Cowboys, the higher the guitar, the closer to God. The higher the guitar, the closer to God you are. But, uh, the more Texas boys play high.

• 2:19:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:32Speaker 01

  And Cody Johnson just, he's another one. It's just that big old, he won vocalist of the year this year, male vocalist of the year at the CMAs. He deserved it. Stapleton's won it like eight or nine times. Luke's won it like two or three, but it's like, Cody's up there with Stapleton.

• 2:19:45Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:19:45Speaker 01

  Like Cody's up there with Luke. Like Cody Johnson has a voice. But then there's other people that we talked about that it's not that their voice is extremely powerful. It's that their voice is just extremely rich. It's just really good.

• 2:19:58Cameron Hanes?

  Like, give me an example.

• 2:19:59Speaker 01

  Morgan Wallen to me has the just easiest to listen to voice ever. You know what I mean? Like, and he's a great singer. Like if Morgan wanted to sing really powerful, he does on that.

• 2:20:15Speaker 01

  He really takes it there.

• 2:20:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:16Speaker 01

  But like Morgan's also just so swaggy. It's just so confident. And last night we let the liquor down. I can't remember everything we said, but we said it now. She told me that I wish you were somebody I never met. But some of your baby son is telling me to say no. But yeah, it's just so fucking Morgan.

• 2:20:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:39Speaker 01

  And I love that because.

• 2:20:40Cameron Hanes?

  There's no doubt who that is.

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  There's no doubt. Note one, the moment his voice comes on, you're like, that's Morgan Wilder. You know what I mean? Like other artists, I won't say their names. We talked about them, though. They're like note three or four, which is still really fast.

• 2:20:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:51Speaker 01

  I'm a three or four artist. For the record, I'm not dissing nobody.

• 2:20:54Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, the music stuff, the delivery, the, the different styles, so fricking interesting. I just, I can, I could sit here and listen to you talk about music forever.

• 2:21:03Speaker 01

  I love it, man. I'm just, this also comes from being a fan, just like listening to it so much and watching it, being proud of people and just seeing what works for people and why.

• 2:21:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:11Speaker 01

  I'm so fascinated with that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Of like, why does that work for that person or not this person?

• 2:21:15Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:21:16Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? What's the difference? Is it hours behind in the dark? You know what I mean? Or is it just unique signature things and the way they approach?

• 2:21:22Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:21:22Speaker 01

  You know, it's just really cool to watch.

• 2:21:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  A lot of cool nuances in art.

• 2:21:25Cameron Hanes?

  Well, and speaking of, uh, music and accomplishments, yes, or it wasn't yesterday. I guess this is the day before, but your announcement that, or Joe had an announcement from Craig Morgan about the Grand Ole Opry. Tell me about that.

• 2:21:41Speaker 01

  I, um, so I don't know, I, I got, I got called. I said I'm gonna talk to Joe about it afterwards, see how this story worked out. But when they called me, they were like, hey, man, Joe called. He wants you to get on the pod. And I didn't say why. I didn't ask. I was just like, dude, anytime, when I, Joe's a friend.

• 2:21:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no.

• 2:21:56Speaker 01

  But two.

• 2:21:56Cameron Hanes?

  If he says, you're like, yeah, win.

• 2:21:58Speaker 01

  Please, Joe, thank you. As many, you could call me once a week. I'd fly down here, be on your pod. Like just to get to talk to you. I learned so much from talking to Joe too, you know?

• 2:22:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:06Speaker 01

  Well, also, I mean, it's just like, please, God, thank you for sharing always. Just anytime Joe shares his platform is just like, he doesn't have to do that, dude. Just because he, just because we're friends. Like he doesn't know that to any of us. You know what I mean? But I just assumed Joe was like, probably seen the weight loss stuff and wanted to talk about it. So in my mind, I'm like making notes about the weight loss. I'm like, oh, I know what Joe wants to talk about. This is about the weight loss. And management told me yesterday, it wasn't even about the weight loss. We reached out to Joe that, that Grand Ole Opry and my management team had reached out to Joe and said, hey, we think this might be one of the coolest ways to ever do this.

• 2:22:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:34Speaker 01

  So I don't know where, where the truth lies in the middle of all that, you know? But, uh, what I thought, I never got to talk to Joe about it, but I just assumed I'm there to talk about weight. So I'm with my little notes and at the end, he pulls up the video of me at the Grand Ole Opry. And the way he brings it up so casual, I thought we were getting out of there. You know how Joe will just get you out of the pod?

• 2:22:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:49Speaker 01

  Like, oh, that's it. You got anything? Let me just watch this video and go, you know, someone laughing on the way out.

• 2:22:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  And I looked up and it was my Grand Ole Opry debut and I immediately started getting emotional watching it because I thought he was showing it to me to show how far I'd came. You know what I mean? Cause this was me at like

• 2:23:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:04Speaker 01

  fat Jelly Roll.

• 2:23:05Cameron Hanes?

  Big boy.

• 2:23:06Speaker 01

  And I remember being so emotional that night on stage because I just remember thinking, and I said this on Rogan's podcast of being like, man, all right. At least when I, when I die from this obesity, my kids won't think I was a loser. You know what I mean? Like I've done cool stuff. Like I've been at the Grand Ole Opry now. I've sold records. Like I've been on Joe Rogan. Like I've done cool things with my life. Like, oh, you know what I mean? Like that's how much I was just expecting death. You know what I mean? And so I just thought I was like having that reflection. I was feeling what I was feeling then in that moment. Like, man, I remember how special that night was. Like,

• 2:23:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  You know, just man, the Grand Ole Opry, what it means. And then Craig Morgan pops up on the screen and I could tell by the background, it was maroon. I was like, that's an Opry seat.

• 2:23:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:46Speaker 01

  Even though they had it cut in really close. I'm so glad we're going to talk about that. They had it cut in really close, but right then I was like, that's an Opry seat. That's an Opry seat. And right then I was like,

• 2:23:56Cameron Hanes?

  Were you, were you wondering like?

• 2:23:58Speaker 01

  No, I knew right then I felt it. I was like, cause then when it went out, he's like, who'd have thought I'd be back here at the, I just threw my headphones off. I didn't actually hear Craig Morgan invite me to be a member for the record. I just know that's what he was doing.

• 2:24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Your reaction was incredible.

• 2:24:10Speaker 01

  Dude, it was just so not, you heard, I cried about it the other night and we talked about it. Um, just privately.

• 2:24:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:16Speaker 01

  I just never, you know, we have a country music hall of fame, which I have an exhibit in that I'm super proud of. It's been there for a couple of years and I'm hoping to add more stuff to the exhibit. I'm just honored. They think of me. They put my face on the side of country music hall of fame. That meant a lot. But long before that building was there, the Grand Ole Opry is what everybody, being a member of the Grand Ole Opry is the holy grail of country music. It is the Grammys of country music. It's the Oscars. It's the Tony. It's the Emmy. You know what I mean? It's the EGOT of country music.

• 2:24:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:43Speaker 01

  Every big thing you can get in every other film. You know what I mean? It's like, if you were a Broadway person, you spent your whole life wanting a Tony. If you're a country music singer, Whether you want to admit it or not, something in you wanted to be a member or at least play the great, not even be a member. Most of us don't think that's realistic. We just want to play it.

• 2:24:59Cameron Hanes?

  I remember when I, I went there to watch you the first time I saw you and I remember you taking me through the names because there's all the members there and, and we were looking at all the names and it's like you, you had a story for each one of them because you know, you, you've grown up in Nashville, Antioch, but you, you know, Grand Ole Opry, you know, the history. And then I was curious too, it's like, if you ever thought that when you got into country, because I still see comments about like, oh, he's a rapper, drug dealer, whatever. So did you think that country music would never accept you in that way in some ways?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 2:25:35Cameron Hanes?

  And then to get this acknowledgement and acceptance is, is that part of the, why it means so much also, but it means so much because it's just an incredible accomplishment, but maybe for you specifically.

• 2:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. It's like all the above, especially being a local boy too. But like, I also keep thinking about God and his redemption plan of like, he redeemed me in the same place that I broke. You know what I mean? Like he brought me back like that, that is a story only God could be the author of. That you take a convicted felon rapper from Nashville, Tennessee, that in his late 30s gets in the country music business after just being nothing but a [bleep] up, being nothing but a failed musician, being nothing but a failed rapper, just, just this, the story over and over again. And then you not only bring him, you give him a night and let him do have a debut at the Grand Ole Opry? To me, that was just the biggest, like God showing like,

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  how can y'all deny this is me? How can anybody say this is anything but God's doing? And then whenever they go, oh, Jelly Roll's a clone and he's satanic. God's like, we'll make him a member. Tell me that's not God. You know what I mean? Jelly don't have no relationship with God. We're going to send the biggest Christian music artist in this decade over to do a song with him of the last five years. You know what I mean?

• 2:26:53Cameron Hanes?

  Brandon Lake.

• 2:26:54Speaker 01

  Brandon Lake. Like that God just, I feel like this is all God. I know it sounds crazy, but I can't point, I don't know, I don't, I didn't deserve any of it. Besides being willing to show up, I wasn't, you know, I was just willing.

• 2:27:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right, right. And, and every, every slight used against you, he's turned into.

• 2:27:12Cameron Hanes?

  He's like, okay, well, I'll address that one.

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he's not country.

• 2:27:15Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 2:27:15Speaker 01

  I'm making him a member of the Grand Ole Opry.

• 2:27:17Cameron Hanes?

  That's what, that's what I, it's just incredible, but I also want you to show me your tattoo on your arm.

• 2:27:22Speaker 01

  We didn't, yes, I blew this so bad. So this will probably be a big story anyways. Um, I have been, the first time, big news announcement kind of for me. I have been, I haven't been hiding, I just hadn't talked about it. I've been covering up all my old tattoos. Where I'm a new creation.

• 2:27:37Cameron Hanes?

  They were bad, or negative memories.

• 2:27:40Speaker 01

  Negative memories, negative stuff. And it's like, new man, new creation, new playground, new playmates, new everything.

• 2:27:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yep.

• 2:27:46Speaker 01

  New tattoos. And I covered the left arm first and I put Witsch at Chapel on there, the old church. Uh, put a big cross on the inside. Like I've got this, the, the lower part of this arm is almost finished. I just started this one before I went to Australia and that's the Ryman Auditorium, right there. WSM is the first radio station that broadcast and still does broadcast the Grand Ole Opry live from WSM every, uh, two nights a week.

• 2:28:11Cameron Hanes?

  This, this says Grand Ole Opry right here.

• 2:28:14Speaker 01

  That is the Grand Ole Opry stage right there, sitting on top of the Grand Ole Opry radio station logo, sitting on top of where the Grand Ole Opry first started at the Ryman Auditorium before it moved to the Opry House in the seventies. So like, that's how much the Grand Ole Opry means to me as a local, just like as a country music fan, like having that right there is. This is, dude, I, I didn't tattoo that thing and I was, I played it. To me, it was just, it was a local thing. Like, it was just like getting the Ryman, like.

• 2:28:40Cameron Hanes?

  And now you're a member.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  I'm a member, dude. And they asked me to play the Grand Ole Opry the first time, the first time I played the Ryman. I was at the Ryman making my debut, the home of the original Grand Ole Opry before I moved to the Opry House and then the Opry came and invited me there.

• 2:28:52Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I'm, when, when I went there to watch you, you had me go stand on the actual old wood.

• 2:28:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:28:58Cameron Hanes?

  From the grand, from the.

• 2:28:59Speaker 01

  Circle right there in the middle.

• 2:29:00Cameron Hanes?

  From the cir, yeah, in the middle. It's like just, and explaining to me the history. I just saw.

• 2:29:04Speaker 01

  You don't know how many musicians just heard that you stood there that are just losing their mind, like, oh my God, I want to stand there so bad.

• 2:29:11Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I want, I wanted to tell that story just to, just so people understood how much the Opry means to you.

• 2:29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:16Cameron Hanes?

  And that, now that's why that, you had that reaction on Rogan's podcast. It's so beautiful.

• 2:29:22Speaker 01

  It's, um, look up Grand Ole Opry. I haven't looked it up in a long time, but Grand Ole Opry, uh, membership.

• 2:29:31Speaker 01

  Memberships, uh, ask or whatever, how you'd look it up, how you'd look that up. I mean, my reaction, Luke Combs. Kelsey, Uplaney, like we, there's very few country artists stood on that stage and don't snot rocket the night somebody walks out.

• 2:29:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:46Speaker 01

  What made it extra special for me was that I got to do it on the biggest platform ever with one of, a dude I consider a friend.

• 2:29:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:55Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? They set it up to surprise me with, you know, just like one of the coolest things in country music.

• 2:29:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:59Speaker 01

  Like it's just.

• 2:30:00Cameron Hanes?

  So crazy.

• 2:30:01Speaker 01

  It's once again, only a story that God could be the author of. You know what I mean? Like it's truly a story that only God could be the author of.

• 2:30:08Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I'm, I'm proud of you. I'm happy for you and it's a, yeah, it's just beautiful to see and um, man, this, we have to go hunting.

• 2:30:18Speaker 01

  Is it time to go kill a buck?

• 2:30:19Cameron Hanes?

  It's, it's time to go kill a buck, but uh, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you and, and uh, how much I love you and how thankful I am for your friendship.

• 2:30:27Speaker 01

  No, dude, I love you too, brother. I love you, love the whole family, Tanner, Shrew, the boys know it, um, your family, Cam. My wife loves you. She, she's, she's not very approving of my friend group at times and every time she hasn't liked a friend, she's been right.

• 2:30:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  And she loves you.

• 2:30:41Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 2:30:41Speaker 01

  So every time she has liked a friend, she's been right.

• 2:30:43Cameron Hanes?

  Love you too, buddy.

• 2:30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, thank you for your friendship, dog. It's truly been one of the, as you, I love that that word means a lot in your, your profession is that it's an anchor in my life.

• 2:30:53Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:30:53Speaker 01

  It's one of my anchor points. I look at our friendship as an anchor point and it's a constant motivation. Every time you're on my YouTube feed, brother, I mean, we talk all the time, but just seeing you on my YouTube feed.

• 2:31:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:03Speaker 01

  And Joe said this yesterday, it was like, maybe you haven't found the Cam Haynes friend yet that you're looking for, but you still have Cam.

• 2:31:08Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  You have the shit talkers, you have the keep hammering collective, like, like until you find that right group or friend group, start manifesting you want it now and just listening.

• 2:31:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:18Speaker 01

  Listen to the kind of people you want to be around. Just be the third quiet person in the room with us for that.

• 2:31:23Cameron Hanes?

  Well, that, yeah, that's well said. It's a, yeah, I'm very, very, I never thought this would happen. I never thought we'd become such good friends, but it's not over yet. We're going to be hunting, we're going to be elk hunting, we're going to be running marathons, starting with the LA half coming up and uh, hunting, hunting tonight, so.

• 2:31:43Speaker 01

  Cam, under Music Man, I want to add ultra marathon runner and bow hunter.

• 2:31:47Cameron Hanes?

  That's right.

• 2:31:48Speaker 01

  My, my bio has only said Music Man for like three years now.

• 2:31:51Cameron Hanes?

  Love it.

• 2:31:52Speaker 01

  I want to add bow hunter and ultra marathon runner.

• 2:31:55Cameron Hanes?

  We're gonna make it happen, brother. Well, thank you. Thanks for the time. Hope you guys enjoyed the talk. Keep hammering.

• 2:32:01Speaker 02

  Someone to blame, they sent that hate, it fuels my pace. I am Roy Tough, I am the change, the fuel in dirt, feeling like Cam Hanks. Oh, give me the mods, nobody wants, I'll give you my heart, I carry the work. Give me that impossible task, I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt, I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question on earth, that I just died, that I endured. Give me them odds, nobody wants, I'll give you my heart, I carry the work. Give me that impossible task, I'll give you that unbreakable courage. Give me that rise up and that hurt, I'll give you that mindset that I earned. Give me that last question on earth, that I just died, that I endured.