Sarah Jakes Roberts: Do THIS to OVERCOME Trauma & DISCOVER Your Inner Power!

Welcome to The School of Greatness! I'm your host, Lewis Howes, and today we're joined by Sarah Jakes Roberts, an empowering speaker and author who dives deep into why many of us fear harnessing our inner power. In this episode, Sarah shares her journey of overcoming feelings of powerlessness, navigating insecurities, and the reasons behind self-sabotage. She also discusses the importance of authenticity in meeting expectations and reveals three transformative strategies from her book "Power Moves." Whether you're looking to conquer fears, enhance relationships, or align your intentions, Sarah's insights offer valuable guidance for embracing your true power. Let's get started! Buy her new book for yourself and a friend! Power Moves: Ignite Your Confidence & Become a ForceIn this episode you will learnHow to identify and overcome the internal fears that prevent you from embracing and utilizing your true potential. The importance of authenticity and how to stay true to yourself while meeting external expectations. Techniques for managing nerves and ego to remain fully present and impactful during public speaking or in leadership roles. Insights into the dynamics of power in relationships and how to navigate them effectively for a more fulfilling personal and professional life. Why people often sabotage their own success and how to break this cycle to achieve your true potential. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1606For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Tabitha Brown – https://link.chtbl.com/1600-podMarisa Peer – https://link.chtbl.com/1563-podJohn Maxwell – https://link.chtbl.com/1501-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I was a girl who felt in many ways abandoned and rejected. But I do think there came a point where it was like I have allowed shame to dictate most of my decisions. And why not try faith?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  I have the honor today of introducing Sarah Jakes Roberts.

• 0:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  What a beautiful journey it's been. God gave me something that I want to share with you. That was OK for me. Can you make some noise for Jesus now? Power moves. Just because it had enough power to stop you in your past doesn't mean that it gets to keep that power. When you reclaim it, you can begin moving in the direction of transformation from the inside out. If you have normalized something that was traumatic, then you have become comfortable sleeping with the enemy. Wow. I need to know that you know what hurt you, what wounded you, what changed the way that you see the world. I want to help you clear your lens.

• 0:55Lewis Howes?

  Is it possible for us to be fully in our power if we don't forgive ourselves for our past?

• 1:01Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  No, because...

• 1:05Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Sarah Jakes Roberts in the house. So good to see you.

• 1:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Good to see you again. Thank you for having me back.

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  Of course. I'm so excited because since the last time you were on here, you have just continued to impact millions of lives around the world with your message, your voice, and your life. And so I'm so grateful that you're back. Thank you for taking the time. You've got a new book called Power Moves: Ignite Your Confidence and Become a Force. And in my mind, you're really empowering people to become a force for good.

• 1:40Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Fresh on?

• 1:40Lewis Howes?

  In their own corner of the world. And you start the book with one of my favorite quotes. I'm going to just read it really quick from Marianne Williamson, who's been on the show. "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate." Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us the most. The quote goes on, but I'm curious, why do you think people are afraid of the power within them?

• 2:07Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  People are afraid of the power within them because if we really step into the fullness of our power and we can't maintain it, or it's exhausting and stressful, or we disappoint people, it would be so much easier to just set a low bar of expectation. But when we step in the fullness of our power, I have discovered that it's not pressure, performance, or perfection at all. It's simply authenticity. That is the most powerful gift that you can give to the world.

• 2:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow. But how do you navigate your own power personally, within your current corner of the world, your house, your relationships with your kids, but also with an online platform and then a platform of a communities that come to watch you live speak and at your events? How do you manage the power of all of it?

• 2:58Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Okay, so if you just want that to carry us through the rest of the interview, that's fine, because that's going to take a minute. It really is my authenticity. I am not any different when I am at home versus like when I'm speaking. So I-

• 3:14Lewis Howes?

  Speak with that much passion at home as on the stage?

• 3:17Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yes, but just not that much volume.

• 3:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, interesting.

• 3:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You know, I am sincerely sharing whatever is on my heart in any given moment. And so that's part of the reason why I wrote the book is because I would get finished speaking and people were like, that was so powerful. You're such a powerhouse. They kept using this word, power, power, power. And I was like, I don't necessarily go throughout the day thinking, I'm so powerful. I'm such a powerhouse. What's happening in that moment? And the more I started just thinking about who I am in that moment, I realized that those moments when I speak is really just the overflow of the way that I flow in power throughout my week. And so when I am studying for a message, I'm doing it with sincerity. I'm doing it with a real hunger. And then that just overflows into the moment.

• 4:05Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  So I'm not thinking to myself, how can I be powerful? How can I say something powerful? It's simply, how can I be honest about where I am? What I know, what I'm learning? That can help someone else. And as simple and straightforward as it is, for some reason, that has turned into this powerhouse example of a person when I am speaking. And so I wanted to demystify that there really is no secret to what's happening. I'm just doing it with sincerity and authenticity.

• 4:34Lewis Howes?

  When do you feel the most powerless?

• 4:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  When people say things on social media that I can't respond to, that I tell myself I can't respond to.

• 4:43Lewis Howes?

  Ah. Why do you tell yourself you can't respond to it?

• 4:47Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Because I do not want to give attention to negativity.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  You don't want to give it power?

• 4:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I don't want to give it any more power. And I also recognize that whenever something has bothered me, something that someone has said that's negative, the reason why it bothers me is because it echoes an insecurity that already exists in me.

• 5:07Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 5:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so if I am at war with them, instead of untangling my own mess, I miss the opportunity to grow. So if it burns, if it stings, if it gets on my nerves and under my skin, it's because it was already under my skin.

• 5:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 5:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And they just watered it. And so I try to get in within and say like, well, what about this really bothered you? Are you afraid that you aren't good enough? Are you afraid that your delivery really is X, Y, and Z? Why did this bother you? And I tried to extract what's actually happening.

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  What was the thing, maybe five, seven, 10 years ago, that used to bother you the most, that would get under your skin? Whether it was someone saying something online or just in person, that you learn to overcome or have a better management of? And how did you learn to navigate that insecurity? So that it didn't hurt you as much or make you feel as triggered?

• 6:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Mm.

• 6:07Lewis Howes?

  Like, where should we start?

• 6:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Let me see. I do want to say I get it. I have a community of people who I call the delegation, and they've shown me a lot of love on social media. So usually if something really gets under my skin, they're fighting the battles for me.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  That's nice, yeah.

• 6:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  But probably that I'm only in a position of influence because of who my dad is.

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  Oh, okay.

• 6:32Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I think that-

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  That would frustrate you.

• 6:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  That would frustrate me because I have lived most of my life in his shadows. And it, I think, also takes away from the genuine posture required for me to receive the messages that I receive and to do the work to make sure that I'm being a good steward over the influence and responsibility God has given me. So I feel like it is, it can be discrediting when people just chop up everything that I've gone through or everything that has happened for me as a result of just being my dad's daughter.

• 7:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So how did you learn to navigate that, I guess, critique or insecurity or frustration?

• 7:15Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think I've accepted that a lot of that is true. Not, not, not a lot of it, but a portion of it.

• 7:21Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 7:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I mean, nobody works hard for their children to start from ground zero. And my need to have a certain level of autonomy, and I built this on my own and no one did, it is rooted in pride. And so I can appreciate that my father has opened a lot of doors for me, that he's paved a lot of this road for me, but he's also not the vehicle keeping me on the road. And at a certain point, it's my work ethic and my passion that has to take over. A parent can only do so much before grace takes over and work ethic takes over. And I believe that that's where I'm living now.

• 7:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and if you're not continually showing up every single day the way you do, then none of this would happen.

• 8:00Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Absolutely.

• 8:01Lewis Howes?

  You know, they can get you in the door, maybe, but you've got to be consistent for the last decade, right? It's like, that's interesting. When did you, when did that switch start to happen for you where you said, okay, I can accept this critique or criticism or whatever it might be? I can accept it and not let it bother me. Like, was there a day, a moment where you were able to switch off that frustration and say, "Okay, you're right that I, he opened the door, but now I'm driving the car."

• 8:32Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think it happened over time. Yeah, it wasn't one particular moment, but probably a series of them coming together. Where I was like, "I have to find, I have to come to a place where this doesn't shake me anymore." And so like, what can I build with that will allow me to not be shaken in this area anymore? I don't want it to be pride, I don't want it to be ego, I don't want it to be anger. Like, it's gotta be something that holds the tension of two realities. And this is the reality. I wanna, I don't wanna be resentful that I'm TD Jakes daughter. Like, I don't wanna live with this idea like, "I wish I would have X, Y, and Z." And so I needed to hold space for those tensions.

• 9:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I reject anything that requires me to peel apart pieces of my identity. And in order for me to hold all of who I am in one space, I have to accept, like, I am TD Jakes daughter. And there are privileges and opportunities that have been afforded to me as a result of that. I am also someone who has worked very hard, who gives everything that I have to whatever is in front of me. And so those two things can exist in the same space. I don't need to reject one and stand on the other.

• 9:44Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. Do you think sometimes we sabot, if someone has been given an open door?

• 9:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Lewis Howes?

  Let's say, do you think sometimes we sabotage ourselves to stepping into it and being as successful and as powerful as we can be? Or do most people just take it and run with it?

• 10:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Everyone's different. Everyone's different.

• 10:07Lewis Howes?

  It's almost like this guilt of like, "Oh, I've got this opportunity, like, I should sabotage or take advantage of it." Like?

• 10:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think that most people... Want to do well when given an opportunity. But they don't always trust that they can deliver on the level of the opportunity.

• 10:25Lewis Howes?

  The expectation maybe, interesting.

• 10:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so I do think you have two groups of people, those who like try and over deliver to the extent that they burn themselves out and maybe fake it until you make it. And then you have people who don't want to live with that type of pressure at all.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 10:41Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I think ideally, we would be somewhere in between where we're like, I'm going to move into this opportunity and I'm going to trust that because this opportunity is in front of me, that this opportunity requires who I am in this moment. So I can't pretend to be someone else. And I can't pretend that opportunities aren't just falling in our laps. You knew some of the right people, you knew some of the right skill set. Like there is something about who you are that created this opportunity that you're about to step into. Don't worry about what you don't know, you'll learn along the way. Keep your heart open so that you can receive the lessons connected with the opportunity, but also own the fact that this opportunity has crossed my, crossed my path because I'm on this road that allowed it to happen.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Was there ever a moment where you felt like you were not being yourself or living up to a different expectation? Um, or trying to be someone else in order to own this power?

• 11:39Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Okay, no, but this, I, I want to, cause this, that's, it sounds so corny and arrogant to say this. But let me tell you why, because I never really wanted to be a speaker. I never really wanted this influence and stuff. I feel like I made God like, here, here's my concession, alright? I will do this. I will go where you tell me to go. I will say whatever you tell me to say. I will bring my best to every opportunity, but please, don't let me have to pretend to do it.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 12:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Lewis Howes?

  When was this? What, what, how long ago?

• 12:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I will say about nine, eight to nine years ago.

• 12:15Lewis Howes?

  Okay, as you started getting more requests to speak.

• 12:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Sure, I was like.

• 12:20Lewis Howes?

  You were resisting it.

• 12:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, um, so I started just, I was just sharing my story about being a teen mom and figuring out what grace means and be living in this spotlight, making all these mistakes. And then people started asking me to speak outside of just my story. And I was like, that sounds a little bit more like preaching, pastoring, that's not my thing, I can't really do that. But, uh, people were like, hey, we, we, we're not asking you to be anything other than yourself, just come and do it. And then I would speak and people would be like, oh my gosh, I understand God differently now. Or I believe that there's a chance for me to walk out my life and experience love. And with those types of results, it's hard to put my desire to rather just be in the background in front of that.

• 13:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so I'm like, I will do it for the sake of whoever's on the other side, for someone who may be like me and feel like I don't really fit, it doesn't really make sense, is there really space for me? I will do it for them, but I can only do it as me, I'm only effective if I show up as myself and I have to be free enough to do that. And so even when I get nervous and I'm speaking in new spaces, like maybe it's a corporation, maybe it's a different type of church, maybe it's a university. And I'll start getting nervous and anxious, like anyone who's ever heard me speak, you'll hear me pray, I'm like, no fears, no nerves, no anxiety.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  You still get anxious and nervous?

• 13:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yes.

• 13:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:40Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think, not this is a good or bad right or wrong, but why do you think that happens for you?

• 13:47Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Well, I am naturally introverted, I internalize, I keep things to myself. It takes a lot for me to like speak up and use my voice. And so in those moments, I, I'm gonna have to think out loud in front of people, I'm gonna have, and then I'm like criticizing myself while I'm speaking, I'm like, girl, that didn't make any sense. You said that wrong. You should have studied to make sure you're pronouncing these words properly.

• 14:13Lewis Howes?

  You'll say that publicly.

• 14:14Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  In my head, I'm thinking all of these things like, oh, my gosh, did I check this? There have been moments, there have been moments, so.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  She'll second guess yourself while you're speaking.

• 14:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure, because I would like, I don't mind speaking, like, but I would like to think about what I'm going to say before I actually say it. But there is a freedom required to step into certain moments where you can't be in your head and be in the moment at the same time. So I have to say, you know what, I'm going to let myself go. And if I say something wrong or I make a mistake, I'm going to be willing to apologize. I'm only human. But I have to be free in order to be a channel, a vessel, and I can't block my own flow by being in my head about it. So I do get nerves and anxiety, but I like lay them, I surrender to whatever the moment requires.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 15:00Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Lewis Howes?

  How, I guess, when you're about to go on stage and speak anywhere, you know, church or a corporate event or something, when do you start to feel nerves? Like, an hour before, the day before, 10 minutes before, like, right when you get on stage, when do they start to?

• 15:15Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Okay, here's my process. So I say, yes, I'm going to do it, and then I instantly regret it.

• 15:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Then, right then, when I'm like, yes, and they're like, great, I'm like, oh, gosh. So, right there in that moment, then I start studying, and I'm like, you know what, I've got something to say. I can really help these people. This is going to bless somebody. This is going to be amazing. And then when it's time for me to actually do it, like, the notes don't make sense, that courage I had is gone. And then that's when I'm like, you need to take a deep breath, center yourself, regroup, you got this.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  That's like, right before you're on stage?

• 15:48Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Right before.

• 15:49Lewis Howes?

  So you regret it right away?

• 15:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Absolutely.

• 15:51Lewis Howes?

  Like, months before, right? And then you start to prepare the week before, whatever it might be, and get ready, and then, an hour before you're like?

• 15:59Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I let those out the window.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow. It's interesting. I used to, um, but it sounds like, you know, the week before, you're in service mode.

• 16:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  You're preparing, you've got your cards, you're thinking about it, you're in service. How can I bless them?

• 16:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 16:13Lewis Howes?

  And I used to be so nervous before I got on stage, even though I was doing it all the time, I would still get anxiety like the morning of. And I called my coach one time and I was like, why do I still get nervous? I'm like getting paid to do this well. I'm getting, you know, I'm speaking in big places. And he said, cause you're still thinking about yourself.

• 16:30Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, my God. Someone told me the same thing.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  And he said, you need to start, you need to know that you're gonna forget the thing you wanted to say. You're gonna forget that joke. You're gonna forget the point. And just be of service, even if it's to one human in that audience, just think about serving them and get out of yourself. And I started doing that more. I still get a little nervous, but it's way better.

• 16:50Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Lewis Howes?

  Just thinking of, okay, I'm here to serve. I'm here to serve. And it sounds like you do that leading up to it.

• 16:55Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I, yeah, no, when I get stopped making it about me and I can only make it about the people in the room, then that helps me a lot.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. Did you have any, obviously you grew up watching your dad, but did you have any formal training of like presenting on stage or speaking, or did you practice it a lot growing up, or is it more just observing and then learning on the go?

• 17:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's learning on the go. It's learning on the go.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  You're so talented.

• 17:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's definitely learning on the go. I, my husband sometimes will be in the corner. He'll be like nodding his head at me like,

• 17:35Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  but, um, yeah, I would not say that I, I mean, I guess I'm naturally a speaker, but I also don't feel like I'm naturally a speaker. But, uh, when I have something to say, I can say it with, you know, conviction and certainty. But if you just hand me the microphone and just tell me to start speaking, like I, I need to say a quick prayer before I, I open my mouth, cause I, I don't keep something ready to go.

• 17:59Lewis Howes?

  That's good. So you're very intentional.

• 18:01Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:02Lewis Howes?

  Take a moment to be intentional and, and let something come to you as opposed to just, I got it all figured out right away.

• 18:07Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  And I think a lot of people, when they don't have the answers, or when they're asked a question, they'll just respond, even if they don't have the answer. But you're willing to take a beat and be still.

• 18:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:20Lewis Howes?

  Before you speak, which I think is really powerful.

• 18:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of power, is taking a moment, like the risking. Having an awkward silence.

• 18:29Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Lewis Howes?

  And risking people being like, oh, what's happening and you being in that moment? I think it's very powerful.

• 18:35Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I really do feel like there's a flow. There's a a pocket that you have to be in if you really want to connect with people. And you can't get in that pocket if you are not connected with yourself. And to make it about performance or to make it about ego or, you know, I've got to pull clips or what if I fought like all of these random things that can come like you've got to be connected with the message of the moment. And when you find that message to dare to stand in it, even if it means abandoning your notes, even if it means having to wait for it to make sense, to get the language right, you've got to trust that pocket.

• 19:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And when you get in that pocket to really live it, live in its fullness, is I think the greatest gift that you can give someone who is investing their time and their attention in a world that's vying for their time and attention.

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  The least you can do is make sure that what you're saying is pure and life changing.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  How do you stay in the pocket of power? And not be in performance or ego? When you know people are going to be watching this live when you're speaking on stage, you know that, you know, part of the things that have gotten you to this place are clips online that go viral that are that are inspiring to people. How do you let go of all that and just be present in your power?

• 20:01Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I just remind myself that I am a person, I'm not a figure. So like, no matter how many people are following me on social media, no matter how often those clips go viral, at the end of the day, I'm a person. And I try to not let popularity rob me of my humanity.

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:19Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I gotta really allow myself to be human. So even me praying publicly where everyone can hear, no nerves, no fear, no anxiety. Like, that is to remind my, ground myself in the reality that I do have fears, I do have anxiety. And they could hijack this moment. And so I am making sure that I'm coming into a space where I'm grounded enough to just be human. And I, I like to believe that part of the reason why so many people have gravitated towards my messages and my voice is because I'm one of those people who are like, I am just up here being human. Like, I was speaking at my father's church in June of last year. And as I was speaking, my wig started slipping a little bit.

• 21:04Lewis Howes?

  No way. What happened?

• 21:07Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It was not, it was not secured properly. And I was, I remember speaking and I'm kind of pacing the floor and I'm, I'm in this zone, I'm in this pocket. And like, you know, I-

• 21:18Lewis Howes?

  You're not thinking about anything else.

• 21:19Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  No, this is black church though, so like, people are standing, they're talking, their hands are up. And I saw this one woman and she was like this.

• 21:26Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 21:26Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I was like, she like tugs on her forehead. And I was like, that's an interesting praise. I've never seen that before. I moved to the other side of the room. And then someone else was like-

• 21:35Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 21:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And then I was like, is my wig? And they were like, yes, yes, give it a tug. But I realized that because of the hairstyle it was in, like, I, it wasn't going to stay on. And I was like, I'm going to take it off.

• 21:46Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 21:50Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I'm going to take it off. I'm going to take it off because I still have things to say. I wasn't even like fully finished with my message. I still have things to say. And so I take this wig off and now here I am with a wig cap on.

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  How many people are here watching?

• 22:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  There's probably 6,000 people in the room and 70,000 people watching online. And here I am in my wig cap. Continuing to preach this message. And now, when I was behind the scenes, I like turned into a puddle, like what just happened? I am so embarrassed, but in the moment, all that mattered was me continuing what I had to say. But there were so many people who came up to me afterwards and they were like, oh my gosh, when you did that? Like, I felt freedom, like I felt like I could lock in, like I could focus, like it doesn't matter how I show up. All that matters is like who I am in any given moment. And so now this thing that I thought is like, this is gonna go viral, this people, I'm gonna be the laughing stock of whoever and whatever.

• 22:47Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  There are women who are like, oh my gosh, when you did that, it's like I felt shame get pulled out of my body.

• 22:52Lewis Howes?

  Fool.

• 22:53Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's.

• 22:54Lewis Howes?

  That is power.

• 22:55Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 22:56Lewis Howes?

  When you can step into like your most, I guess, you're not your most, I guess it's a vulnerable moment. A vulnerable moment for you, but still own yourself, own your message, own your voice and be of service.

• 23:09Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  That is powerful and beautiful.

• 23:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Thank you, thank you. It was, when it was over, I was like, wow.

• 23:17Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  But, you know, I just, I just wanted to be real in the moment. And I didn't, I couldn't let something like that keep me from continuing on. And I wasn't trying to be anybody's hero when I did it. I was just trying to make sure that I maintained my responsibility. But I didn't know in doing that, that it would have meant something to so many people. And that's why like what has blown my mind about power is that we think that like I need to take all of these classes. I need to do all of this finessing. I need to do all of these rubbing the shoulders. And everything that people have said was powerful about me just came from authenticity and owning every part of who I am.

• 23:59Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Whether it was the parts that were inspiring or the parts that were cringe worthy, recognizing that they could all live in the same space.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  See, for me, this is empowering and inspiring, but I, I could assume there might be a few people watching or listening and saying, well, you know what? It's Sarah Jakes Roberts. She can do whatever she wants. She didn't. She could, you know, her dress can malfunction. She could, you know, take her wig off. She can, whatever, stumble around and do something on, she can fall down and get back up on stage. But she's so powerful, she's so worthy that it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect her.

• 24:31Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I hope you're not.

• 24:32Lewis Howes?

  So I'm curious, for someone that thinks that they've never been enough, that they don't believe they're enough, or they don't believe they're worthy or deserving of their own power. What are three things that you think, maybe from your book, Power Moves, that they could start to apply today to feel more enough and more powerful?

• 24:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  So I've spent almost as much time feeling like I was powerless than I have flowing in this level of power.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah. And I will say that part of the reason why so many of us end up feeling powerless is because we have not fully sized up our opponent. So if you have fear, if you have shame, if you have doubt and you have worry, we say these words so casually and so frequently that they have become normalized. The only problem with normalizing our insecurities, our fears, the abandonment, the rejection issues, is that they don't really have the same level of power that they need to have in order for us to overcome it. And by that, I mean, fear is powerful, shame is powerful, our doubt is powerful. It's powerful enough to keep you stuck in relationships.

• 25:49Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's powerful enough to keep you alone, to keep you from pursuing your purpose and a business deal, whatever. It's got power too. And if you're going to have power, you gotta have the right target. And instead of trying to target something that's going to make you feel better about those things, we have to face off with the fear, we have to face off with the doubt and with the shame. We've got to look that thing in the eye and say, at the end of the day, I no longer want to be controlled by you any longer. You've had my name for far too long.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 26:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You've dictated my destiny for far too long. I want to be better than who fear says I am. I want to be better than what shame says that I am. And in order to direct our power in the right direction, we got to know who our opponent is. And so I would say to anyone who believes that. I don't have what it takes, or I don't have enough worth that. As long as you believe that, it is true. What we need to be saying instead is that I need enough power to finally get out of this pattern of thinking that has kept me stuck, that has kept me feeling defeated, and that is a stronger belief. And I believe that anyone who's going to introduce a stronger belief has to be able to say, I am this and that. Like, I may be a teen mom, but I'm still a girl who has dreams.

• 27:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I may have come from a broken home, but I still want to pursue this. I do not want these statistics to end up defining who I am for the rest of my life. And so just because I'm this, doesn't mean that I won't be that either. And so being able to live in this duality so that fear doesn't convince us that who we were yesterday defines who we're going to be tomorrow. So I did-

• 27:24Lewis Howes?

  So identifying it first, facing it.

• 27:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  This thing has real power. It has enough power to keep me from moving, enough power to keep me from growing. Now that I have identified that it actually has power, I want to talk about what, how I want to extract the power, reclaim the power that fear has, that shame has, and point it in a direction that will allow me to experience wholeness, and joy, and peace, and confidence. Power Moves is all about really reclaiming power from fear, from our shame, from our past, and recognizing that power moves. Just because it had enough power to stop you in your past, doesn't mean that it gets to keep that power. When you reclaim it, you can begin moving in the direction of transformation

• 28:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  from the inside out. Not just because I want to get a new job, or I want to build something on the outside. When power moves in you, then power can move through you.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay, I love this. So when you identify it- And you face it.

• 28:26Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to, I guess, running away from it or just allowing it to consume you.

• 28:30Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  What would be the next step? How do we move that power into a direction that supports and serves and empowers us?

• 28:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I love that you asked this, because then we need to study, how does it show up in my life? So I, in my intimate relationships, I would never speak up. So if someone projected something on to me and said, oh, you know Sarah doesn't want to do this, or hey, we're going to do this, and say, I would never use my voice, even if I disagreed. I would just go with the flow. I didn't want to be a disruptor. I didn't want to detract from anyone, even if it was a major decision. And so I recognized that the power of fear was showing up in keeping me from actually using my voice. And so I have identified it. Now I've seen how it shows up in my life. To go to the end of the day and to reconcile, how did the power of fear, the power of shame show up? It determined what I put on.

• 29:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It determined whether or not I spoke up in the meeting. It made me shut down. I got angry. Like, how did this show up in my life? And what do I wish I would have done instead? What would have been the power move that I did instead? What do, and the beautiful thing about this is when you're reconciling it within yourself, you can say whatever you want to say to yourself. Like, you may not, this may not be what I would have said in the meeting. Like, I wish I'd have told her to shut up. It's like, that may not be what you say in the meeting, but start practicing what it feels like to use your voice, to show up in power, to do the opposite of what fear and anxiety and doubt, do the opposite of that, even if you're only doing it within yourself, because you have to exercise using your own power within,

• 30:07Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  because the next time there's a moment like this, you get to capture and say, wait a minute, this is a moment where I get to choose to have faith or I get to choose to have fear. And because I've already practiced how I want to show up in this space, this may be the moment where I dip my toe in the water and begin to show up.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  Pick up a little bit.

• 30:24Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Right, right.

• 30:25Lewis Howes?

  A bit of boundary, or say, no, that doesn't work for me right now.

• 30:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, let me think about that, yeah.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, as opposed to just going along with what you would always, your past identity would always do, I guess.

• 30:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  So it's almost like create a rehearsal and practice with yourself first. Once you identify and you're aware of it, I'm hearing you say like, How would you reflect on something you would have done earlier that day that you wish you had the power to do?

• 30:45Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Exactly.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  And start practicing it on your own?

• 30:48Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  So at the end of each chapter, we literally have this like marinate activate prayer. So it's like these three sections where it's like, let's marinate on how you would have wanted to do something differently. And then let's activate it. The next time you're doing X, Y, and Z. Try and show up in a way that allows power to move through you. And then a prayer to help you in those moments because it does create. Change is not always easy, even when we know it needs to be implemented.

• 31:17Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 31:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's just not.

• 31:19Lewis Howes?

  What's the biggest power move you need to make in your life right now? The biggest change that's on your heart or minds or in your world that you know you're still?

• 31:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Marinating?

• 31:29Lewis Howes?

  Marinating and need to activate them.

• 31:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I am still.

• 31:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Probably really.

• 31:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  After, you know, because we are on a podcast where people hear things. I am needing to be more intentional about owning my voice as an entrepreneur.

• 31:56Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  There are.

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  Are you not being authentic in certain areas or you're not?

• 32:01Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I am, I would, it's hard to say that I'm not being authentic because I don't fully.

• 32:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I, I don't know that I have fully owned the fact that there are a lot of things that I have like stumbled into. And then there are many things that I had to really be strategic about.

• 32:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:25Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You know, making specific hiring choices, making sure that our brand has a certain feel, touch and consistency. And I've done that with intention. But because I act like everything just happened by accident, it's keeping me from really understanding. How to serve other people and giving these tools away. And to really empower my team to like own what they know as well.

• 32:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 32:51Lewis Howes?

  So that's what you're working on?

• 32:52Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  That's what I'm working on.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 32:53Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I know that my fear in working on that, the reason why I haven't is because I don't want to come off as an expert when I am still learning. And so I would rather just be like, I'm still learning than to own what I know thus far. And allow that to, to be used for whoever needs it.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  To lead the way. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. But you weren't an expert when you started speaking on stage either, were you?

• 33:15Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I was not.

• 33:17Lewis Howes?

  Did it stop you from putting yourself out there?

• 33:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It did not, but...

• 33:21Lewis Howes?

  Sharing a message, you know, authentically and imperfectly.

• 33:25Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Uh huh.

• 33:25Lewis Howes?

  And it's served and moved people.

• 33:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Uh huh.

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  Just something to think about.

• 33:29Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I see what you did there. A little sprinkle.

• 33:35Lewis Howes?

  Um, what is the prayer you need to hear right now for yourself?

• 33:39Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You're called to this. You're called to do this as you are.

• 33:47Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  To just keep it pure. I think that the hard thing about success, which feels like a very cringey word, is that people begin to impose their strategies onto you. And when those strategies and ideas about who you could be and what you could do and this could happen for you, it can make you hungry for something that you never even had an appetite for. And so protecting my appetite so that I can continue to just focus on what God has put in my heart

• 34:28Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  is my greatest responsibility.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yes, it's interesting. I just, I just wrote down kind of what you were sharing there. I put calling on top and then success versus service.

• 34:41Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, it sounded like you started sharing your story to be of service to people that were asking, hey, share your story.

• 34:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  And you realize, oh, this was helping individuals, you know, a handful of people and then hundreds and thousands and millions. And you gain success as well through that process of just sharing your story and being of service. And then it sounds like it's moved you into a calling.

• 35:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  It's what it's sounding like, right? It's and but how do we learn how to know when we're going after success versus service?

• 35:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Lewis Howes?

  And how do we know, well, this is an amazing opportunity and here's this cool thing I could do with this person and this experience and here's a lot of money over here, this project and this, you know, deal. How do we know when we're taking on success and it is truly service versus success by itself?

• 35:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think the line is so thin that the only way you learn it is by trial and error.

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow, yeah.

• 35:48Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Unfortunately, but I think some of the qualifying questions I ask myself is what's driving your desire to do this? And being real enough to know when it's ego, being real enough to know when it's wanting to seek approval from certain industries or certain people versus even with this book launch, like you've written a book before, so everybody's like, you gotta hit the list, you gotta hit the list. You need X amount of numbers to hit the list, hit the list, hit the list. But like when I wrote this book, I wasn't thinking about how do I write a New York Times bestselling book?

• 36:29Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I wrote this book because I was completely consumed with this idea of what it means to have power and who holds it and who doesn't, and why do we believe that it's only reserved for a few? Like, I wanted to explore this idea of power and I did that, which means that this book has already been successful in the way that it was meant to be successful for me. And so for me to get to this point and then for it to become about, okay, but if you don't hit the list, it wasn't successful, is robbing me of the obedience that started the book in the first place. And so I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that people hear about the message, but I'm not going to put the success of the book on whether or not it makes it into a list.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  How does someone learn how to do that, though? When there's so much pressure from, you know, their survival, making money, their approval, pressures of a publisher potentially telling you, you need to do this for your community, letting people down, how does someone let go of the? Need for something to be successful and be an obedient servant to their calling and message instead.

• 37:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  In a material world when we gotta survive and pay bills.

• 37:40Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And numbers matter and all of that matters. I think defining what success is for yourself first. Cause if you don't have a definition of what success is, that's part of even in the book, like I have to define what power is for me as a person. Because if I do not have my own definition, I will be stretching and reaching for someone else's definition of power. And so I've gotta know what it is for myself. And then I also need to know what is everyone else's definition of success or power in my world. Whether it is what, like my husband and I, perfect example. My definition of what it meant to be a good wife was like dinners on the table at six, you know? The house is completely clean, like you wake up and the house is clean.

• 38:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You make sure that before you go to bed, you look a certain way. Like I had all of these different ideas of what it meant to be a good wife. I never stopped to ask the person I'm actually marrying, like what is your definition of a good wife? Not society's, not what I've seen on sitcoms. What does it mean to be Terrell's wife? Because I wanna be successful and powerful at being your wife.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow, what did he say?

• 38:44Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Uh, he doesn't care about dinner being on the table at six.

• 38:48Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  He's not nearly as obsessed with cleaning. He wants honesty. He wants communication. He wants loyalty. Um, he wants joy. He wants peace. I would be up making sure the room was clean before we went to bed so that like if you wake up, the room is still clean. And he's like, I want you to get in the bed so I can put your, put my head in your lap.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:09Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And even for someone who internalizes for my husband to value communication and honesty. Sometimes I'll have like a whole dialogue going in within me and he has no idea what's happening and he wants me to speak up. So I know that part of what it means to be a powerful wife to him is me being able to verbalize what I'm thinking and what's going on in my world. And so we are so consumed by living up to other people's expectations and other people's definition that we're robbing the people who we are in the closest proximity to of us being powerful in the roles that we play for them.

• 39:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:44Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so when you come up with your own definition of power as it relates to your specific roles, like what is power as a founder? What is power as a spouse? What is power as an adult child? What's power as a parent? Specific to the people who you are called to serve, you're able to incubate what really matters and push away that which would try to make you perform into someone you're not.

• 40:06Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of power moves, someone could look at this and think like, is this a relationship book about power moves and relationships? You're speaking about your husband.

• 40:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 40:15Lewis Howes?

  It seems to me like a lot of people are struggling in relationships. Like there's power dynamics where there's just fights happening all the time in intimate relationships where people are dating or married.

• 40:29Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think people struggle so much to have peaceful power in an intimate relationship in today?

• 40:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Probably fear of control.

• 40:38Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 40:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, I would, I think so. Fear of not even necessarily controlling another person, but controlling, mitigating opportunities for hurt.

• 40:49Lewis Howes?

  Like fear of being out of control?

• 40:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yes, fear of being out of control. So the more that I can control myself or control them, try and control the way that this relationship works, the better off I'll be. So I have a lot of, I feel safe. Yeah, I think, yeah, at the end of the day, I think people are searching for safety and safety and control often feel like they go hand in hand.

• 41:14Lewis Howes?

  Can you feel safe if you're controlling someone else?

• 41:17Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  No, I don't think so.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  So how does someone feel safe in a relationship with, you know, someone else that they're sharing their heart with, they're being vulnerable and open with? How can they feel safe if someone else has the ability to hurt them?

• 41:32Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  If you do not feel safe by yourself and on your own, it's gonna be difficult for you to feel safe in the context of a relationship. Because at the end of the day, you have to get to a place of safety for yourself. Emotional safety, spiritual safety, like you have to know where is your home plate. And if you don't know your home plate, and you just meet someone while you're out in the field running bases, then nobody knows where home is.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:58Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  So I have to know where my home plate is. What makes me feel safe is consistency, stability, rest. Makes me feel like I'm not an out, being out on the town kind of person. Like, I like to be at home. It makes me feel safe. And so I know how to get myself to a space of safety. I know how to communicate to my husband, because I know what is safe for me, what I need from him as well. And he knows what safety looks like for him as well. But when you don't know what it looks like, and there are times even in a marriage where you're just on autopilot, things are just going crazy, and now you're trying to like, control everyone else's movement. I think you have to know, I am out of my safety. And because I am out of my safety, I am now in survival mode. And because I am in survival mode,

• 42:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I have a different set of expectations than when I'm functioning from a place of safety. When I'm in survival mode, if you have a bad day, I think you're about to break up with me. Are you rejecting me? Does something go wrong? Because I don't feel safe by myself. But if we can get to a place of safety for ourselves, we can invite other people into the intimacy of our safety. We can visit the intimacy of their safety. And we can also give one, each other, space when that other person needs to get back to their place of safety.

• 43:09Lewis Howes?

  I know a lot of women, you know, reach out to you and asking questions about relationships. Based on your experience or interpretation of your community, where do you feel like women are at today in relationships? Do you feel like, what's the percentage of women, do you feel like are safe emotionally in the relationships they're in? And is, and is it about the men they're with, or the relationship they're in? Or is it more about they haven't learned the skills of emotional safety or regulation yet?

• 43:40Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I, I saw a very encouraging article that the divorce rates are actually going down because people have done a lot of work in therapy and understanding triggers and communicating. So marriage is becoming more safe than it once was. But I think that we also have a generation of women who... Feel like they saw a previous generation of women lose theirselves in relationship, lose their voice, lose their ability to explore their creativity and their power to become subservient to whoever their partner was. And I think there's a legitimate fear in that for women who feel like, hey, I do want to create a life with someone, I do want to experience love, but I also want to be the fullness of who I am and I'm not sure that the two can coexist.

• 44:24Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And they are so committed to preserving who they are, that they don't want to take a chance on relationships. And I think that that is a fair perspective based off of what we can see. But I do think that when we are in relationships with our partners, that we have to be willing to make space for the reality that just because what we saw didn't seem healthy, it doesn't mean that we can't create something healthy.

• 44:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 44:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And in wanting to create something healthy, you have to make sure that you and whoever you're going to build with want the same things. That you're willing to create your own definition of what love and marriage and partnership looks like. And that whatever that definition is, that you will commit to protecting your definition. Because it may not be the world's definition, it may not be your parents' definition, or the church's definition, or whatever. But you gotta be willing to protect your definition, so that you can have a bond that lasts throughout time. My husband and I like, there are certain things we want for our family, there are certain things we want for our marriage, and we're often in worlds and cultures that don't always support that.

• 45:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 45:31Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  But we know what it is.

• 45:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 45:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 45:34Lewis Howes?

  I mean, as long as you guys are coming together in alignment on it, that's all that matters.

• 45:39Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 45:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Because it's going to take the strength of both of us to maintain the marriage that we want. It can't just be a one-sided strength.

• 45:47Lewis Howes?

  What would you say are, you know, you've been married, what, 10 years now?

• 45:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  10 years now? And I was asking you some marriage advice before.

• 45:55Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah. Because you're going.

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  I'm engaged and, you know, getting to be getting married sometime soon, exactly.

• 45:59Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yes.

• 46:00Lewis Howes?

  If someone was looking to get engaged or married to their partner that they're with right now, what would you say are three mandatory questions they should ask their partner before marriage?

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  To make sure that their answers are in alignment. And if they're not, then you should probably reconsider being in the relationship.

• 46:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Well, my husband and I have a shared expression of faith. So I think making sure that you have a shared expression of faith. Not even just a shared faith, but what does this expression look like for you? How does it show up in your world? Because everybody who believes in God isn't trying to live a life of light, love, and goodness, and conviction, and humility. And so making sure you have a shared expression.

• 46:52Lewis Howes?

  So it's not just the same beliefs. It's the same shared expression of the belief.

• 46:56Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting, because you could be like, yeah, I believe in God, but I'm an angry person.

• 47:01Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Right, right.

• 47:01Lewis Howes?

  And I'm just trying to tear the world down.

• 47:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Exactly. How does your faith show up in your actions?

• 47:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, okay.

• 47:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I will say that this isn't a question that you would have a shared answer to, but I think it's a question worth asking the person. And that is, what is the most traumatic experience you've had in your life? And how does the residue of that experience show up in your present?

• 47:30Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. That's a big one.

• 47:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay, so one more time, say it again.

• 47:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  What is the most traumatic experience of your life? And how does the residue of that experience show up in your present?

• 47:44Lewis Howes?

  That is so powerful, because if people have not healed the wounds of the past, and they drag them into the present, they'll keep happening in the future, and it's going to affect the person you're with.

• 47:53Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And we're all a little crazy. And if you have normalized something that was traumatic, then you have become comfortable sleeping with the enemy.

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I need to know that you know what hurt you, what wounded you, what changed the world, the way that you see the world. Because I want to help you clear your lens. I'm not asking you to not have the lens. I just want you to understand how it shows up in who you are right now, and what do I need to do in order to help you see beyond what happened to you?

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's interesting. Because if someone's replying and saying, well, I didn't really have anything, and they're just dismissing it, or if it is a big thing, but they're not willing to address it, it's like... It's gonna impact you.

• 48:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It is.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  The person you're with.

• 48:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 48:38Lewis Howes?

  They might be avoidant, or reactive, or explosive, or aggressive. You don't know.

• 48:43Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  That's a good one. Great question.

• 48:46Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I would say the last one is, what brings you joy?

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Why that one?

• 48:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  This world is tough. And I want to know the secret to putting a smile on your face when the world's trying to wipe it off.

• 49:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's beautiful.

• 49:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  Do you think the world is in more pain now than when you were a teenager?

• 49:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I do not know. It feels like it, and there are plenty of reasons why I think it feels like that. But I also think social media has put it more in our face than ever.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  We didn't see this stuff.

• 49:24Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  We didn't see it.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  We would see it maybe newspapers, or...

• 49:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  But there were still wars. I mean, people were still going through a lot of pain. There were ups and downs in the economy. And so I want to believe that there was, you know, the same or similar amount of pain.

• 49:41Lewis Howes?

  We just didn't see it.

• 49:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah. But it does feel very magnified.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  It does. What is the, you know, you incorporate prayer in your life a lot. What is the prayer that you think the world needs to hear right now?

• 49:58Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think that every person has to be willing to ask themselves, "God, what is it that I need to see? And who is it that I need to be to address what I see?" I think it's too big of a thing to ask, "What is the prayer that the world needs?" But if I can get people to understand that who you are in your world matters, is significant, that you are a power player in your circle of influence, then they can take ownership over their corner of the world. And it may just be the four walls of their home.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It doesn't have to. I want to believe that there's something in me that will address every single problem in the world. I want to believe that. All I have is this story, this platform, this gift to take the Bible and make it relatable. And it doesn't always feel like enough.

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:51Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It doesn't. But I release it anyway.

• 50:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 50:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And I believe that if we can all combine in releasing whatever we have anyway, that maybe we can make a difference in one person for one day.

• 51:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Or for a lifetime.

• 51:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:06Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  But I think we have to be willing to take ownership because we've got devastation. And then we have people who are apathetic in many ways because they're so overwhelmed in what they can't do to solve what they see. But if we can engage in what we can control, I believe that we can see a difference. I have, I have to believe that.

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I can't remember if this is like a quote or just an analogy, but, and I can't remember who said this, but something like, if you want to go change the world, start with your own house.

• 51:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  I can't remember who said that. But it seems like so many people are trying to fix problems outside of their own life.

• 51:46Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  Like they're shouting about this cause and this problem and this thing in the world that's unjust and this war and this thing, you know, changing these policies and I get it, I understand that. But it also seems like they're just not happy with their own life. And they probably have challenges at home that they can be taken care of first.

• 52:05Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people try to fix outside problems as opposed to focus on how they can improve their health, their relationships, their, their past, their traumas, their family situation? Why do you think we as society try to fix outside versus first fixing inside?

• 52:24Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I do think that there are some people who are literally called to focus on what's happening outside of maybe their immediate circle of influence. Like that immediate circle of influence may not be their target audience, right? Um, but I also think that there are some people.

• 52:45Lewis Howes?

  But if they have broken relationships and they're, you know, sick or they're, they're not taking care of that first, that's, I guess.

• 52:52Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I mean, because it's just so much easier to sweep around someone else's front porch. It just is. I mean.

• 52:59Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  We all know people who would like give the best advice that they don't take. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean that the advice itself is broken, but it is just really hard to do the heavy lifting for yourself. Most of the people who are like the strong friend for other people are showing up for them, but they need strength themselves. Because there is a vulnerability that comes when it's your life on the line, your relationship on the line, where the outcomes directly impact you.

• 53:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 53:25Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so it can be very liberating to say, "I'm going to tell you what to do and then I will figure out my stuff later," or not at all. But I do think that you can only effectively impart what you know to be true.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  Fine.

• 53:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Everything else is guesswork. But I can tell you that I found out power moves because I saw power on the platform and I saw power in the car line and I saw power when I was creating a business plan. Like, I know this for myself. And when you know something for yourself, you're able to have a more convincing argument for other people. But it just requires a lot of vulnerability that many people aren't willing to step into.

• 54:08Lewis Howes?

  Wow. I mean, did you say you had two kids as a teenager?

• 54:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Well, I had one son at 14 and then I had my second child at 21.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  21, okay. But you're a teen mom.

• 54:19Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 54:20Lewis Howes?

  And there's, you know, that's not as common today, I guess, in America, right? Is maybe it was in the past, but it's still, it's very rare and it must be very challenging to be a 14, 15, 16-year-old mother in American society, I'm assuming. How did you not let that define you or hold you back in any way or block you from your power and your ability to?

• 54:49Lewis Howes?

  Transform as a human being in the ways that you have. How did you not let that be your identity and keep you in some box?

• 54:57Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I spent a long time thinking that that would be my identity. Yeah. I mean, because unlike other things that people go through, like you got a baby on your hip. Like if you have recovered from addiction, like you can recover and never look like what you went through. Like there are all of these different things that can happen to us that no one knows about. But I've got a baby on my hip and a young face. I look like a teenager who had a baby. And I figured if I am going to beat this, then I'm going to just add on some decorations to this title, right? I'll get a degree. I'll get the house. I'll do the marriage. And as long as I was concerned that that would define me for the rest of my life, I was allowing it to define the choices that I made in life.

• 55:41Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And when I got to a point, I was probably 23 when I was still just like even old enough at that point to have a child. I was still thinking that it would define me. And I just got to a point where I'm like, you know what?

• 55:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I have to accept this. That this is, this is a part of my identity. This is a part of my lived experience. And yet I'm also not going to run from it for the rest of my life. And when I stopped running from it for the rest of my life and finally embraced it, I was able to see outside of that one thing. It was so hard for me to see outside of the fact that I got pregnant as a teenager. It just felt like, how could you be silly? How could you let this happen? And you're TD Jakes daughter. This is so embarrassing. And I couldn't see past that.

• 56:26Lewis Howes?

  Was there a lot of shame that you were feeling?

• 56:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  Really? What was the main emotion? Was it shame or was it guilt?

• 56:31Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Shame.

• 56:32Lewis Howes?

  Shame.

• 56:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Shame. Also, I had my son at the age where purity culture was really prevalent in the faith community. And so everything that we were sending messages to young girls about was about not having sex before marriage. If you do, no one's going to want you. Like these, you know, put on a white gown and say that you're going to be married to Jesus until you find your partner. And so, you know, and I have a sister who's just almost a year older than me. It's like 11 months and a few days. And so I would be sitting at her like purity class with my baby in the back.

• 57:07Lewis Howes?

  No way. Oh my goodness.

• 57:09Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Okay, so shame, definitely shame. Like, you're not one of the good girls. You're not the one who did it that way. And it was all that I could see.

• 57:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 57:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 57:18Lewis Howes?

  It's really hard to be powerful when you feel shame, right?

• 57:21Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:22Lewis Howes?

  When were you able to let go of shame and step into power then?

• 57:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I really feel like it was a gradual release. And I kept thinking that I would finally have one accomplishment that would make me feel better about it. And it just wasn't enough. Nothing could fix it. Nothing could do it. No relationship, no accolade. And it was never...

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  The degree is nothing.

• 57:45Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It was never enough. And so I finally realized, like, I'm not gonna be able to just perform my way out of this.

• 57:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:52Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I'm gonna have to really understand the messages that I have received and choose whether or not I agree with these messages. So especially, you know, like, I didn't really understand faithfully at that age. But I do think there came a point where it was like, I have allowed shame to dictate most of my decisions. And why not try faith? Like, this idea of you're fearfully and wonderfully made, and no matter what you've gone through, God still loves you. Like, it was very much so an attempt. I didn't go from shame into this. I confidently believe everything. Everything God says about creation belongs to me. Like, it was an attempt. It's like, I've tried shame. I've tried depression. I've tried promiscuity.

• 58:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Like, I've tried all of these different things. Let me just try to believe that I could be better than my past choices. Let me try to believe that His strength is made perfect in my weakness. Let me try to believe that I can have a fresh start. And if I were to try and believe this, what choices would I make if I thought it were true? And I started making those choices and trusting those decisions. And I started recognizing that as I moved in the direction of my faith with the works, that I was coming back to life again.

• 59:12Lewis Howes?

  So, you know, it's, we're talking about again, power moves and how to really build this confidence within yourself. It sounds like you didn't have confidence for many years.

• 59:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, no.

• 59:24Lewis Howes?

  You had a lot of shame and security, frustration, depression, anxiety, I'm assuming, all these different disempowering emotions that kept you feeling weak, I guess, right? Not powerful. You decided to make a decision, okay, let me try this other way of being, living, experiencing, believing, and start backing it with choices that support that identity, right? How long did it take for you then to start fully owning the new identity? Because it's not an overnight, like, okay, now I'm this confident person and I'm gonna believe this and own it and act this way. It sounds like it took some time. When did you feel like, oh, I am no longer living in shame?

• 1:00:08Lewis Howes?

  I'm living in acceptance and forgiveness of myself and appreciation of self of what I've been through? And I'm stepping in this new identity that I now own fully?

• 1:00:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  So, when I started getting evidence that making these decisions that were based and rooted in faith were actually bringing out a better version of myself, I started releasing that grasp on shame.

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:00:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, I started believing that I could trust myself again, that if I took a moment and really stilled myself, that I could see people and things for what they really were. And so I started getting evidence. So at the end of the day, shame was so powerful because it had evidence.

• 1:00:53Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And sometimes when we're moving from shame into faith, faith doesn't have evidence yet, and because faith doesn't have evidence, it's so much easier to fall back into whatever that negative experience was.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  Because you're familiar with it.

• 1:01:05Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I know it, yeah, but the moment that faith begins to have evidence, it's easier to continue to move in a direction of faith. So that happened gradually, but it was happening. But what was overnight, as it relates to me forgiving myself, was the moment that I realized that I was looking at my teen pregnancy through a lens of judgment instead of compassion. And I was able to start seeing it through compassion when I realized that I wasn't just a girl who got pregnant. I was a girl who felt in many ways abandoned and rejected and who was searching for a place to fit.

• 1:01:46Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And when I saw myself in that moment before I made the choice, the choice made more sense to me.

• 1:01:54Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:01:55Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And a lot of times we're judging ourselves for the outcome of our choices and not looking at who we were in that moment. If we look at our choices in context with the families we grew up in and the cities we grew up in.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  Traumas we had or whatever it might be.

• 1:02:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  The decision makes sense in context. But because we are just so disappointed by the outcome, we don't look at the context.

• 1:02:19Lewis Howes?

  Right. And I guess maybe you had a, that's kind of an aha for me because I used to be, I, I didn't forgive myself for a long time just for like the actions I did, just stupid stuff as a kid, right? It's like, and the pain I caused and just like hurt to my family, myself, all these different things just felt so shameful for a long time. But for whatever reason, you just woke something up in me where it's like, well, I had a different identity back then.

• 1:02:44Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Lewis Howes?

  And I was making choices based on that belief of an identity to myself.

• 1:02:49Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Lewis Howes?

  And when we can have compassion, when I'm here, you say towards our younger self and the identity and the beliefs we had, then we can see, okay, those choices are natural. We're going to be making those choices based on that. So now we have the awareness and we can start to marinate.

• 1:03:06Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:06Lewis Howes?

  And reflect on that identity and those behaviors and those actions and beliefs. And we can start to activate new beliefs and new identities. And over time, hopefully we make the choices consistently to own that new identity, it sounds like.

• 1:03:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  For sure.

• 1:03:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow. How i- is it possible for us to be fully in our power if we don't forgive ourselves for our past?

• 1:03:33Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  No.

• 1:03:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Because you have to know what's in you. And if you have this barricade up like I did, where it's like, well, that version of me doesn't exist anymore. Look at me, I'm shiny, I'm brand new. Then I cannot really plan how to protect myself or to have boundaries or to know where my weak spots are because I haven't yet done the work of recognizing how I end up making poor choices. So, one of the chapters I'm most proud of in this book is called Know Your Harm. Because if we go throughout life thinking that I'm gonna get to this stage of life where I am no longer making mistakes, where I'm miss perfect and no one can say anything to me,

• 1:04:20Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  then we're gonna miss out on the reality that like you are going to do harmful things. You're gonna have long days, you may say something hurtful, you may be dismissive, you may be disrespectful, depending on what's happening in your world. And you have to know how you show up in the world and how it can be harmful, depending on who you're talking to or what their experience of you may be. And so, I don't know that you can really own your power without owning how you've harmed yourselves, how you can harm others, because you have to be, power with no accountability is reckless. You have to be accountable to the ways that you're gonna fail, the ways that you're gonna mess up, so that you can apologize and own them. That is power, seeking forgiveness, being able to forgive.

• 1:05:02Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's not about doing everything well, it really is about owning every dimension of who you are.

• 1:05:08Lewis Howes?

  How often do you forgive yourself today?

• 1:05:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, all the time.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:05:12Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  What do you need to forgive yourself for?

• 1:05:15Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Sometimes it's talking negatively about myself.

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  Just internally, or you mean to other people?

• 1:05:21Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Internally, sometimes internally.

• 1:05:24Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Sometimes I have to forgive myself for not showing up in the highest version of who I am in conversation with other people.

• 1:05:35Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I have to ask my children for forgiveness.

• 1:05:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:05:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, like, hey, I'm sorry. I think you were trying to share something special with me and I got upset or I got so worried and afraid that I started projecting my own pain or trauma onto you. I have to apologize to my husband. Sometimes I get so caught up in work and so blinded by whatever task is in front of me that I'm not attentive to like just looking him in his eye and being like, how are you for real, you know? And not just going through my life like two ships passing in the night. And I apologize or have to seek that forgiveness because at the end of the day, I have a core value that I want to live by as it relates to all of these different hats that I wear.

• 1:06:23Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And when I don't live up to those core values, it's not just an assault on the person who has had that experience. It's an assault on the core value that I want to embody for myself.

• 1:06:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:06:34Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And so I have to forgive myself so that I am posture to actually give an apology that is heartfelt.

• 1:06:40Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting.

• 1:06:41Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:41Lewis Howes?

  And, and what is your thoughts on vulnerability within power?

• 1:06:47Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Unfortunately, you can't have one without the other.

• 1:06:52Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I've tried, it doesn't work.

• 1:06:54Lewis Howes?

  You can't just be powerful without being vulnerable?

• 1:06:56Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  You gotta be, that is, that is power. Vulnerability is power.

• 1:07:00Lewis Howes?

  A lot of people think, you know, power is about being strength and confidence and having it all put together and being perfect. But I'm hearing you say vulnerability is power.

• 1:07:10Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It is power. Anyone who we feel is powerful are in a position of extreme vulnerability in order for that power to flow through them.

• 1:07:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:07:21Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  They're trying new ideas. They're exposing themselves to the world, like they're.

• 1:07:26Lewis Howes?

  They're risking.

• 1:07:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  They're risking. They are risking and often risked that they don't necessarily have to take. But because they are committed to being positioned in this space of vulnerability and exploration, they're taking chances that maybe other people wouldn't take. And you see power, but they may see weakness. You see power, but they may see fear. And a lot of times, what I am learning in speaking with people and having the honor of just being in a relationship with people who I think most of the world would deem powerful, is that at the end of the day, they really are just human people doing the best they can with what they have been given and hoping that it translates to the people who are called to them.

• 1:08:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:08:11Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:11Lewis Howes?

  What do you think are the fears? You don't have to call people out, but what are the fears of some of the most influential and powerful people that you advise, connect with, you know, interact with? Um, what are the biggest fears that powerful people have?

• 1:08:26Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Being misunderstood, trying something new and different than the way people have come to know them. Um, relevancy.

• 1:08:37Lewis Howes?

  Staying relevant?

• 1:08:38Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Uh huh. Staying relevant. And...

• 1:08:43Lewis Howes?

  Why are people afraid of not being relevant?

• 1:08:46Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Well, I think because we think that power is popularity. And that's why you gotta have your own definition. And I'm kind of like, I am not going to be relevant forever. No one is. But with this window that I have been given, I wanna give all of what God has given me to this moment so that I don't have regret when the season is over. And so I am not clinging for relevancy or popularity. I'm maximizing every opportunity that has come my way and also prepared that at any given moment, it's gonna be a different person, a different style, a different

• 1:09:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  way of showing up in the world that someone else carries that isn't mine.

• 1:09:33Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:34Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And then my power isn't gone. It is just moved into a space of mentorship or maybe into a different industry. So as much as it is about making a power move, it's also recognizing that power moves. So as a parent, I don't think there's any better example. Like, what makes you powerful to a newborn parent, a newborn baby is totally different than what makes you powerful as a mother with an adult child. Like, I'm not burping my 21-year-old. I'm not staying up all night with him, but I am trying to listen to him and be attentive to what he needs. My power as a parent has moved. And as long as the world is moving, as long as new ideas are emerging and new generations are taking their place, we have to recognize that power is going to move. And I can try and swim upstream

• 1:10:19Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  when life is carrying me into a different path, or I can trust that there is power that awaits me in the new path that I'm set upon.

• 1:10:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So you mentioned 21-year-old son, so I'm assuming you're mid-30s then. What if you could do an experiment with me for a moment and go 10 years in the future to your 10-year-older self, who has lived this season of purpose that is in front of you right now? And assuming it'll go 10 and many more years beyond that, but this season of 10 years, the next decade, what is the three pieces of advice that your future self, with all the wisdom and experience and lessons you're gonna gain over the next 10 years, what do you think she would tell you today?

• 1:11:10Lewis Howes?

  To be prepared for with this next decade?

• 1:11:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I hope that she would tell me to be present in every moment,

• 1:11:22Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  to plan like it's gonna last forever, and to

• 1:11:31Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  hang on to the relationships.

• 1:11:36Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  That matter the most to me. To really prioritize them and keep them in the forefront of what I do.

• 1:11:44Lewis Howes?

  What would she say is the thing you need to look out for the most?

• 1:11:49Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Look out for other people's agendas.

• 1:11:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:11:54Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Uh huh. Yeah.

• 1:11:57Lewis Howes?

  How do you know when someone's agenda is in alignment with yours? Or there's a win-win, you know, exchange or a good intention for both parties? Versus someone making it seem like it's a good intention for you, but really they want something from you? What, how can you discern that?

• 1:12:17Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I think it's natural that when you're in a relationship with people, people are going to want something in exchange. But making sure that what they want doesn't bankrupt you in the process. So if I give you what you want, because I'm gonna get something back from you too, right? There's an exchange here. I just have to make sure that it doesn't bankrupt me in the process. And I also have to understand what is a win for you? And can I trust? I'll give, we have these events and whenever you have groups of people, there's an opportunity for sponsorship. We got flooded with so many people who wanted to be a part of sponsoring our events. And we had to qualify as in turning down money. We had to qualify with a budget that needed to be met.

• 1:12:59Lewis Howes?

  Expensive.

• 1:13:00Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah. We had to qualify. Okay, this is a great deal financially, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna be telling them to buy bottles of alcohol. You know what I mean? Like, I have to be willing to stand by where I am leading them. And I have to say no, even though at the end of the day, it could have been helpful for my bottom line. I have, I am responsible for these souls, these people that have been placed under my influence. And I have to make sure that whatever I am giving to them is actually helping them. So all of the sponsors that we had at our last event, like we gave away two Full Ride scholarships. We gave away two program certificates. We were giving away money and financial advising.

• 1:13:43Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Because yes, you may come and you may be able to sponsor this event, but I also wanna make sure that people are leaving with like, things that they can actually use for themselves and that they have tools that are helping them to evolve practically. And so, I mean, we gave away trips. Like, we're constantly thinking about the ways that we can make sure this is relevant to the people who are trusting us with their time. And there are, most things are not. So being intentional about making sure that when they do align, that we maximize those partnerships.

• 1:14:14Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. Yeah, we've, you know, I've had this show for 11 years now.

• 1:14:18Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Lewis Howes?

  And I've never been drunk. I've never done drugs or been drunk. And I've been offered many big deals with, like, alcohol sponsors.

• 1:14:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Lewis Howes?

  Nothing against it if people want to drink, but it's just not something that I want to promote.

• 1:14:31Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Right.

• 1:14:31Lewis Howes?

  So I turn down a lot of money for things that just don't make sense for me personally. So I understand that. Um, I think it's really cool. Power Moves: Ignite Your Confidence and Become a Force by Sarah Jakes Roberts. I want you guys all to get a copy. If you want to get clear on your vision for your life and your purpose for this season of your life, and you want to overcome the challenges, the shame, the insecurity that's held you back, make sure you get this because it's going to give you a lot of powerful wisdom and actionable advice uh, from someone who's lived in shame and insecurity and depression for a period of life and who's overcome that. So I think it's really cool that you're sharing Power Moves with the world, and I want the world to get it.

• 1:15:14Lewis Howes?

  Um, they can go on Amazon or anywhere books are sold, also sarahjakesroberts.com. And you've got an amazing tour as well.

• 1:15:21Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:22Lewis Howes?

  Is it happening right now or it's happening later in this year? How can we show up to it? How can we get tickets?

• 1:15:28Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  It's happening right now, but, so we are going to, oh goodness, Houston, Chicago, Brooklyn, the DMV, Atlanta, and Los Angeles. But we're also going to have an online event because we recognize we won't be able to go to every city that we want to go to. So all of the details are on sarahjakesroberts.com for those who can't be in those cities. I think some of the cities are at capacity, so, uh, but the other ones are, there's some openings there. But obviously virtual, you can have a party, a watch party.

• 1:15:58Lewis Howes?

  Watch party, let's go, baby. Um, so check it out, sarahjakesroberts.com, Power Moves. I got a couple of final questions for you. Um, before I ask them, is there anything else we can do to serve you today?

• 1:16:10Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Hmm. No, I think that... At the end of the day, what you guys are doing with School of Greatness and allowing people non-traditional forms of education and empowerments, literally you being responsible for your corner of the world, so thank you. It takes someone who really understands that it takes all of us, not just one of us, to create space and platform for other people to come through and serve as many people as possible.

• 1:16:38Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, I appreciate that, yeah, thank you. Well, hopefully we'll get you back on many more times because I love connecting with you and meeting your man, I want to hang out with him more too, it's cool. I want to acknowledge you Sarah before I ask the final two questions for your constant evolution and journey as a woman, as a leader, as a human being, doing your part to serve humanity as well, and I just think it's cool that you keep creating value for people.

• 1:17:03Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Lewis Howes?

  And you keep showing up, using your voice, even though you're introverted and what you say is shy, I don't know about that, but you know, shy, introverted and want to stay home more, you've got a gift and I'm grateful that you're cultivating it and sharing it with so many people, so I appreciate that about you. I asked you this question last time, I'm curious if it's changed, it's called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario, you get to live as long as you want to live in this world, but eventually it's the last day, and you get to continue to create and experience life the way you want to experience it, and all your dreams come true. But on this last day, you have to take all of your work and your content with you to the next place.

• 1:17:44Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Okay.

• 1:17:45Lewis Howes?

  So we don't have access to your books, your videos, your sermons, your speeches, anything anymore, it's gone, hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three lessons, you know, in your hundreds at this point, right? So it's your last day, and I call it three truths, what would be those three truths for you?

• 1:18:05Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Number one, find a way to love every version of who you have been. Number two.

• 1:18:27Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Treasure every

• 1:18:32Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  opportunity to engage

• 1:18:37Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  with people who you encounter.

• 1:18:42Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And number three, never become someone's savior

• 1:18:48Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  when you can lead them to one.

• 1:18:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, all right. That's powerful. That's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard that last one.

• 1:18:57Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Yeah, I'm saying.

• 1:18:58Lewis Howes?

  It's a powerful, powerful truth. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:19:04Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Trusting your authenticity.

• 1:19:08Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Trusting.

• 1:19:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  I want to say trusting your authenticity, but I also want to be clear that authenticity is not the same as consistency, which means that you're going to have to do the work of asking yourself, is this still authentic to me? Because sometimes we are loyal to an authentic version of who we used to be.

• 1:19:41Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  And you can't trust that. But if you do the work of constantly asking, what is authentic to me today? And trusting that that makes sense, then you can present that person in the relationships that matter and create from that well and love from that well and introduce everyone you know into that version of who you are. So authenticity.

• 1:20:11Lewis Howes?

  Sarah, thank you so much. Appreciate you being here.

• 1:20:13Sarah Jakes Roberts?

  Glad to be here.

• 1:20:14Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:20:56Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.