KHC 103 - Cole Hocker

Join us for a discussion about running with Cole Hocker, an American middle and long-distance runner who specializes in the 1500 meters. Cole won the gold medal in the event at the 2024 Summer Olympics in Paris, setting an Olympic record. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Cole: https://www.instagram.com/colehocker/ Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Cole’s Favorite Movie 0:03:51 What it Feels Like Having a Gold Medal 0:07:01 Having a Target on Your Back 0:10:13 Cole’s Mindset During 2021 - Matthew Centrowitz 0:14:19 The Challenge Between Slow VS Fast Heats 0:19:04 A Life Changing Medal & Tension of the Call Room 0:22:57 Olympic Race Predictions 0:28:41 Ad Break 0:31:06 Crossing the Finish Line with Gold 0:40:25 Cole’s Childhood - Growing Up Running 0:45:29 Outworking Others, Talent & Icons in Sports 0:52:42 Cole’s Diet & Sleep Regime 0:56:55 Breaking a 4 Minute Mile 01:03:33 Cole’s Dream College & Running Idols 01:05:44 Training to Reach the Next Goal 01:08:58 Cole’s Rivals 01:10:45 Why Cole is Coming Back to Compete Again 01:14:09 Outro

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  All right. This is the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm here with Cole Hocker.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

• 0:23Cameron Hanes?

  Man, what a day.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's been good. I still got the pump going on from the lift.

• 0:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. How was it?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  It was good. He put me through it on the first of the hills at Piscata. Now the weight circuit is good.

• 0:38Cameron Hanes?

  Well, this is, dude, such a huge honor to have the current Olympic gold medalists in the 1500 meter. I mean, best in the world. How did you win the Olympics?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, first of all, if you guys haven't noticed, I'm wearing-

• 0:54Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, God, I didn't even-

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Per request, so.

• 0:58Cameron Hanes?

  It was. I did ask. It's like, we have never had an Olympic gold medal in the studio, if you can believe it. This is the first, and it's, as I said, it's a huge honor, but, man, that medal is legit too, dude.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  It is. We had to be very careful carrying it up to the top of Piscata today, but it managed to get up there unscathed.

• 1:18Cameron Hanes?

  What an honor. So I think I'll take, one of the best questions I've ever heard asked of you was, was it hard winning the gold medal?

• 1:28Cameron Hanes?

  Didn't you say a kid asked you that the other day?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. At the Ducks game last night, so okay, he's probably eight years old. He was kind of half turning around for like 10 minutes. Eventually I was like, what's up? And he's like, was it hard winning the gold? That was probably the best question I've gotten so far. I was like, yeah, yeah, it was pretty hard.

• 1:51Cameron Hanes?

  It was pretty hard, yeah. Yeah. What a journey. I mean, I asked you this earlier. Well, we've talked a lot actually earlier. So actually, let me start with something we haven't talked about. How about this? What's your favorite movie?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Probably Inglourious Basterds.

• 2:15Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good one. How, why'd you like that one?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  It's just so, so well written. So it's like, got the, I think it's three parts and it's all just so you're on the edge of your seat.

• 2:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Just anything Quentin Tarantino is.

• 2:29Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Is that the one where they're sitting in the bar and the guy said three, like?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  And he knew.

• 2:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  The way he held up three was the German or the American.

• 2:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yes, yeah. And that was the tell?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Cameron Hanes?

  Cause he did that, then the, uh, the, the other guy was just like, wait a second. It was, felt like a test the whole time in that scene. Wasn't it like trying to, they're pretending like they're just having drinks, but it was like.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  It is so, everything was like, had two meanings. Yeah.

• 2:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. That was, oh, that was such an intense movie.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01Cameron Hanes?

  It's a good one.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now you put me on the spot there. I was blanking. That's a hard question.

• 3:06Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I, uh, yeah, we just, I mean, I did a post about it, but my daughter just rented out that, you know, downtown Eugenie can rent out the whole theater for whatever movie you want. So we watched, uh, Last of the Mohicans, which is like an old.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:20Cameron Hanes?

  Old movie, but I love it. But yeah, I was like, we're a big movie family. So I think the next time for Christmas, it's gotta be first Rambo, First Blood.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  Have you ever seen that one?

• 3:31Speaker 01

  I haven't seen Rambo.

• 3:32Cameron Hanes?

  You haven't?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 3:33Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, my God.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I need, it's like my dad's like favorite movie, I think. So I definitely need to watch that.

• 3:38Cameron Hanes?

  Well, your dad's probably, how old's your dad?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Sixty.

• 3:42Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. So I'm basically sixty two.

• 3:46Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, so we, we're probably from the same era. Well, I, I mean, so tell me, I don't know. I can't even imagine what it'd feel like to have a gold medal around your neck. What's it like?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it's still just like, I, I, I can believe it, but I can't believe it. Um, cause it's, you know, I've been working for this since I, you know, not since I got into the sport, but as I've progressed through the ranks, it's like, it's that shiny thing at the end of all this work.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  And you know, I'm always like happy with how I treat each opportunity I've been given. I feel like I treated the Tokyo Olympics like it could be my only Olympics. And then Paris, I had the same mindset. I'm like, this might be my only shot at this, so let's make it count. And I'm glad I did, um, of course, but it's also another thing to think about now that I've, I feel like my career just started. And now I've got this thing that I thought I'd be working towards for my entire career.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Good problem to have, but um, it's definitely taken some mental adjustments and shifts. But um, it's, you know, I don't know how long it's been even through almost four months since that race. And it feels like it was three weeks ago. So it's all just been a whirlwind and you know, I'm doing like this tour, going to Ducks games, going to Colts games and you know, celebrating this achievement. But at the same time, I'm, I'm still in disbelief.

• 5:18Cameron Hanes?

  I could, you know, I didn't think about that, but once you say you win a Super Bowl, it's like defending that or repeating, that's the challenge, right? So I didn't think about the gold medal being that, that way. But yeah, you had this thing that you thought was like this long distance, you know, no pun intended, goal, um, and you might get it someday and now you got it already. So how do you keep that fire burning to like repeat or defend?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's kind of something, you know, I don't think I'm ever not going to have the fire. I think, you know, most, most elite athletes, that fire is always there. You know, your body usually gives out before the fire does. And I feel like, you know, I still like, I wake up revved up for a good workout in the morning and I'm ready to attack it. But you know, it's the mental side of it that's, you know, harder to balance. Because yeah, I think, I was talking to Sam Kendricks as a US pole vaulter. And he said, he won the world championships, I think in 2019. And he's like, congrats, now you got the golden handcuffs. And I'm like, that's a good way of putting it.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  That I'm kind of just having, you know, now the expectation's gold and you know, anything less than that is, you know, it's not a failure, but I mean, I expect

• 6:40Cameron Hanes?

  It's not gold.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  I expect to win, I expect gold.

• 6:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  But at the same time, I know my work ethic and I know what got me here and I know that that's not going to go away. And so I have a lot of, you know, trusting myself, if that makes sense on just, I know I'm going to put my best foot forward when it matters most and that's really all you can do in this sport.

• 7:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Anything, really.

• 7:01Cameron Hanes?

  So you don't think, I mean, have you always had a target on your back? I mean, because I, even just going through, like I looked at Wikipedia, which I don't know how accurate that is, but you've been like an elite performer for a long time. So you probably in some sense had a target on your back, even at middle school, high school, whatever, it's like, oh, that's the guy who's getting all the attention. I want to beat him or I want to be my best. Is that, has it been like that for you?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has been and it seems like every, kind of every level I get to, there's a new, there's a new benchmark. You know, and in middle school, it was to win the county championships.

• 7:40Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  And then in high school is to win a state title and I still had to work my way up. I didn't win state, you know, my freshman year, I didn't win it till my senior year. And so it was always just, yes, then once I won the state title, I had the target on my back and then, you know, I went D1 and was one of the top freshmen coming in and I think, you know, eyes were on me to perform there and, and I did and I, I kept performing. And yeah, I think that's something I tell myself now is that this is everything I prayed for and asked for was to be at the top of, top of the game, top of the track world. And so now that I'm here, I, I don't want to, you know, sell myself short and kind

• 8:24Speaker 01

  of wimp out and fold because, you know, the eyes are on me and the target's on my back. And so, you know, I'm, I'm doing my best to just embrace that and go full steam ahead. Like I'm saying, I have a lot of trust and belief in myself and that's not going away anytime soon and I was just executing and doing the same thing.

• 8:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I do. I think that, I don't want to say true, I mean, who am I to say true champions? But a true champion is like when I think of like Jordan, you know, he ever, you know, if his last shot of the game, people are, it's going to be in his hands. I don't know if he's going to take the shot, but he wanted that ball. You know what I mean? He wanted it. He wanted that pressure and he got to the final six times, won it six times, six MVPs. So that's, to me, that's kind of the mindset it sounds like you have is like, yeah, you wanted this. This is what you prayed for. And now you're not going to, you know, wilt from the pressure or you're, you're just going to rise up and say, yeah, bring it on.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. And yeah, that's kind of like a way I've thought about it sometimes is say, if I was, you know, betting on, on a race, um, I think I would choose myself at the most important races, um, where if I were just a bystander or a track fan, I think I would say, I'll put my money on Cole because he, he rises to the occasion. And, you know, I think I have to train myself to think that for it to actually, you know, happen.

• 9:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  You know, now it's, now it's happened and I'm hopefully, you know, making a habit of it. When it, when it matters most, I think, you know, I'm the best in the world and that's the way I want to approach races and, you know, anything I do. But yeah, I think you have to force that mentality until it's the reality.

• 10:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah, no, I get that. I'm, I'm thinking back to on, I mean, when I first saw you run, it had to be like the, maybe it was, was it Tokyo before Paris, you said?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So was it that trials? Is that where you did the Centro thing where you guys were looking at each other?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:28Cameron Hanes?

  So what was your mindset at that time?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, the 2021 season was, you know, definitely, you know, that was my breakout season before this season where I, I went from a good college runner to a great college runner to an Olympian, all in one year. Um, and so that was all happening really fast. And, you know, you had Centurion on and, you know, those who don't know, he's the, he's the 2016 1500 meter champion and he's American and, you know, he's, he's the GOAT in my eyes. He's the icon that that's who I was trying to emulate throughout my entire track career. And then before I know it. We're racing for the same spot on the 2021 Olympic team.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  You know, and it all gets built up by the media and, you know, people are going back and forth. Honestly, speaking for us, but you know, doesn't matter. It built up to a really cool moment and like kind of a, you know, passing of the torch, but you know, he was still, I barely beat him in that race. Yeah, I mean, that was surreal moment of, you know, that's like what you always dream about as an athlete, you know, competing against your, your heroes. And so that was really cool. And then it was kind of always, well, he's always going to have the gold medal. Like you can have a great career, but it's going to be hard to, you know, be in the same breath as Centuots unless you have those accolades.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  And so now it's, it's even, it's even crazier. And I just posted on my Instagram, like that shot from 2021. I'm like, someone send me this like high quality because I want this framed.

• 12:09Cameron Hanes?

  Did you get it?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got the, I got the image. So I'm going to frame it and I think I'm going to send Matt one.

• 12:15Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, nice. Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Because he DM me, but it just like, it was pretty cool to add now more layers to that after the fact. So I mean, that, that buildup was, yeah, incredible. You can't write that up any better.

• 12:28Cameron Hanes?

  No, and it just, you know, what you said, I don't, you didn't say in these exact words, but when your heroes become rivals, right? Because you had looked up to him for, he'd been the icon for a long time. And even at Oregon too. I mean, wasn't he, because he was at Oregon also. And so he was, I don't know. I mean, a legend in this area. And then here you come up as a young gun. And I can't remember, were you guys in opposite semifinals and then only met in the final?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  We were in the same semifinal. That's where we actually like looked at each other.

• 13:02Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Did he beat you in that one?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I'm not sure, but that one doesn't really matter.

• 13:08Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Because top four or five, whatever advanced, that's kind of why it was like, you know, getting cheeky there at the end. Cause he's like, I got, I got some more left. And I was like, so do I.

• 13:18Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Good. Cause you, you don't want to blow yourself out just to win a semi. Cause who cares?

• 13:23Speaker 01

  No, no one, like, I don't even remember who won between me and him and that.

• 13:26Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  No one remember, like, it doesn't matter.

• 13:28Cameron Hanes?

  It doesn't matter. You're, you're right. And is there, I mean, if you do give all you got in the semi, is there less in the final? Is that?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 13:38Cameron Hanes?

  You think so, right?

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's whatever level you go to, the Olympic trials, I mean, it's incredibly hard team to make. There's people that, where you have to go all out to make the final and that's the goal of the season. And then the same with the Olympics. And 2021, I remember telling myself on the semifinal day, be prepared to go all out, sell your soul to make the final. Cause I didn't care. That was the goal was to make the final. You know, and then Paris is a little bit different story. I'm like, let's get through this as controlled as I can. It's still going to be a hard effort. You know, every race is hard. You have to go into it thinking that, but um, yeah, it's all, it all really just depends on where your goals lie.

• 14:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And then how much do you, I was just thinking about this too, as you said that, and we're talking about going full out in some eyes or heats.

• 14:29Cameron Hanes?

  You know how some of these heats are slow and then some are super fast?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:34Cameron Hanes?

  Like, like the slow ones, as long as you're in the top, you're going to make it. But if you're, if you're relying on time, then you're screwed on that. But do you think about like, if somebody had a slow way where they didn't have to push as hard as you had to push? If you're in a really competitive one, that now they're going to have more in the final? Do you think about that ever?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a consideration. Like sometimes you'll have to run whatever. Say I have to run 332 in the semi and then I'll watch, you know, one of my top competitors and he has to run 340.

• 15:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  It's kind of like. I'm gonna race how I'm gonna race regardless, but I it's kind of annoying.

• 15:13Cameron Hanes?

  It's in the back of your head.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:15Cameron Hanes?

  You're like, God dang it.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:16Cameron Hanes?

  They've got an easy path in.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but another thing is it's really interesting because sometimes a race will be really slow. They'll save all of that and then have to sprint all out for a hundred meters.

• 15:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  And that I think you can run a more controlled race. Like I did it the first round of USAs this year. I kind of ran it controlled and it was a fast time, but I never had to hit that that other gear.

• 15:41Cameron Hanes?

  The red line.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Where you wake up the next day and you're like, oh, my hamstrings are kind of tight.

• 15:45Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  So there's, there's ways to do it and there's a lot that goes into it, but I, yeah, I think especially the US system, the best runner is always rise to the top no matter what.

• 15:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah, and I guess no matter how it breaks down, it's like whatever story you're telling yourself. So as long as you can either twist the story to be like, no, I'm good. Or you'd be like, I'm fucked.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:08Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so it's like, but if you're like, I'm fucked, you probably don't have what it takes to have that medal anyway. So it's like, you've got to, you've got to turn that story into like something that's going to benefit you and your performance.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 16:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay. I, I was just thinking about that too, because I've seen some of those heats before and I'd be like, if I was running, I'd be like, God, I'd be wishing I was in that one to be a little fresher, but I, I know because if I think back to a race that was like that, you know, when Citro won the gold, it was very slow, but then it got down to the last lap and it was balls out.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:46Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it seemed like, so it's if that was like a semifinal, maybe that last lap would have had an adverse impact, even though the whole race was, if you look at the time, you're like, oh, that was slow.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:57Cameron Hanes?

  But it's like that last effort had to be hard.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  No, I, I always think it's just like, you're a casual fan if you try to dismiss that race in any way, because he beat the best 1500 meter runners in the world.

• 17:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  You know, he ran a better 1500 meter race. It's, yeah, if you're a track fan, you get it and actually how impressive that was closing in a 50. It's pretty insane. I mean,

• 17:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:20Cameron Hanes?

  That one, I remember he talked about this on, on, or that one on the podcast. He thought that. Uh, I think in that race, there was a delay and they kept them, kept the runners back or something was screwed up or the schedule was a little bit different. And some guys were so wound up that like it wasn't, you know, cause track guys and girls usually are pretty regimented. You know when you're going, you know what minute to do this, to do that. And this one, he said, there's like a 10 or 15 minute delay or something like that. And it had people really worked up where he was just like the consummate pro and be like, I'm good.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:59Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so he thought that that, that had a big impact on the race too. It's like people were wasting mental energy or nervous energy or something on something other than the performance.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I think that's the case with, uh, most of these global championships and kind of preparing for it to be different than every other race. Something I heard Michael Johnson say recently was like, coaches will tell their athletes to prepare for, for the Olympics, like it's every other race. So go out there like, just do what you always do. And he's like, that might be the worst advice because it's not like every other race. There's gonna be weird call times and you're gonna have to warm up way earlier than you usually do. And this is also the most important race of your life. So treat it like that. And I, I really, I think that's, that makes a lot of sense.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Um, because there's all those little things and, um, if you can manage your way through all of these weird things that you're not usually used to, then you're gonna be one step ahead of everyone at the start line.

• 19:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. How insane is that is, I mean, it is a one race that can change your life because there's a lot of big meets out there, you know? The, the pre-classic is a big one. The diamond leagues where you can make pretty good money. The, if the world championships are huge, but an Olympic gold can change your entire course of your life on one race. So I get that point where it's not like every other race. I mean, and you have to know it's not like every other race. It feels like, but I don't know, it's just crazy how every four years you have, you have to get through all these tests and then on that one day, you have to be the best.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:49Cameron Hanes?

  That's.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  No, it's. The it's a whole, I mean, from the trials, building up to the Olympics, like you make the team, that's one weight off your back. And then it's a buildup of anxiety and wanting to perform and thinking like this race could change my life, but also don't think about that, just race. It's nerve wracking and in the call room is, I mean, that's like a living hell, I think.

• 20:18Cameron Hanes?

  Why is that?

• 20:19Speaker 01

  It's just terrible. Everyone, you can see everyone's nervous.

• 20:22Cameron Hanes?

  So the call room is, is everybody warmed up at this time?

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:26Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're back. And so how, how soon is that before the race?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  So like the Olympics, it's like 35 minutes. Um, maybe, yeah, yeah, it's about like 30, 35 minutes and everyone's done with their warm up and they'll say first call, second call, third call. And by third call, you report to the call room. And so everyone in your race is in this room and it's not bigger than this room. It's small, it's tight quarters.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  And at that point, everyone's done everything they can up until that point, all the way through that last warm up, which is just so, it's, it's, the tension in there is like, you can feel it. And everyone's kind of not making eye contact, you know, putting on their, their race vest.

• 21:14Cameron Hanes?

  Is anybody talking?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Hardly. Yeah. Definitely at the Olympics, I don't think anyone talked. Um, I think I might have, me and the USA guys might have said, good luck, but.

• 21:24Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  They're on the same team, but you're.

• 21:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's competition.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  You're trying to beat.

• 21:29Cameron Hanes?

  There's only one.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:32Cameron Hanes?

  Are you, are you watching body language in there? I mean, are you seeing if people are like more nervous or what are you looking at? Are you trying to put on a show yourself?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm not.

• 21:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  I do like to, you know, present calm, but I like to, you know, do it externally. So my brain will follow is kind of the way I think about it. So if I'm, you know, jumping up and down and jittery, then, you know, my brain's gonna start freaking out too. So if I can just remain calm on, on the, on the surface, then I, I like to think that I'll enter like a more calm state.

• 22:13Cameron Hanes?

  Are you just, are you thinking about your breathing at all? Like just deep breaths or are you just trying to be just calm demeanor?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Just calm. Yeah. I mean, it's all, at that point, it is just handling your nerves and.

• 22:25Cameron Hanes?

  Do you have your heart rate watch on?

• 22:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:27Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  No, that would, that was.

• 22:30Cameron Hanes?

  I think people would be looking at that going, oh, my heart, you know, whatever.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:34Cameron Hanes?

  Too high.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:35Cameron Hanes?

  I need to calm down and that probably makes it worse.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that would be terrible.

• 22:39Cameron Hanes?

  Do, does anybody else wear them, do you think?

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Um, you can't wear a watch in the Olympics.

• 22:44Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you can't. Okay.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  They make you take them off.

• 22:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  At USA's, there's heart rate monitors, but I don't think you're looking at it.

• 22:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  You can wear a watch there either.

• 22:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  But.

• 22:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so, I mean, where were you on the, the form chart? Is that what it's called? Form chart or like where they predict who's gonna like finish?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:07Cameron Hanes?

  What's that called?

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I don't know exactly, like your projected place.

• 23:11Cameron Hanes?

  But like, where were you projected? Do you know, remember?

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I think, I think like fifth, fourth, fourth or fifth.

• 23:21Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. And then they had Kerr or probably Inka Brinson was the favorite?

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Inka Brinson was the favorite. Well, it was kind of a toss up between Inka Brinson and Kerr. I don't know. It, it depends which one you looked at, obviously. I think some might've predicted third for me.

• 23:39Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  But I think the top two were locked up on most predictions. Yeah, yeah.

• 23:46Cameron Hanes?

  So how do you look at that?

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean. Honestly, like, it doesn't faze me that much.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Cause it is just that a prediction. But, you know, I, I took it as like, kind of, let's prove them wrong. Yeah, like, that's how I think I have to approach it.

• 24:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  But, at the same time, it's like, it's a little bit easier being the underdog. Or, you know, the eyes weren't on me to perform. And I think, you know, those two guys had to,

• 24:23Speaker 01

  to, you know, take it from the front and, um, you know, cause all eyes were on them and they were watching each other. And, um, I was able to run my race and run it smart.

• 24:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  But, yeah, I, I knew that I was, you know, much fitter than I was the previous year. I was the fittest I've ever been in my life.

• 24:43Cameron Hanes?

  How'd you know this? Just from the workouts?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Workouts, and then also the Olympic trials was really big.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Mainly because, you know, I won and I beat Yarid Nagoos, who was, he was slated for a medal all year.

• 24:57Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  And I think that, I think before the trials, it was definitely, I was not a medal favorite. After the trials, it kind of turned it around a little bit because they're like, well, if Yarid is a medal contender, then, you know, Coldz beat him. Um, and I knew how, I know how good he is. And, uh, I kicked off of a pace that I've never kicked off of at USAs.

• 25:20Cameron Hanes?

  So it was, you guys went out fast and then you're saying you still had a kick?

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:25Cameron Hanes?

  You weren't blown out?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:27Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you, I think we said on the run earlier, that people would know you have a kick. So they'd want to go out with a hot pace, hoping to take away your kick.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:37Cameron Hanes?

  Or the effectiveness of your kick.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so you, you're saying you kicked off a hot pace?

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:43Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  And it's kind of been, you know, 2021, I came onto the scene and all these races. To compare, the 2021 trials were, I won it in 335. 2024, I won it in 330. In the 1500, that's a world of a difference.

• 25:59Cameron Hanes?

  Five seconds is a lot, yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that 2021 race was, it was, it was a steady pace, but it was slow relatively. And it was just, you know, all out last 150. And it was like, oh, this kid has a good kick. And at that point, the world kind of saw that. And so then 2022 and 2023 was figuring out how to connect that, that strength and that kick. And I wasn't able to do it until the US trials.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  I didn't really race the 1500 all season up until then. So I was really, I PR'd in the 5K and I PR'd in the 800. And so right in between, I'm like, I know I'm gonna run fast, but I have to see it first.

• 26:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  And so the USAs was that last bit of confirmation. I was like, okay, like, I'm ready to roll. And yeah, and the interviews right after that, they're asking me, you know, if I was going for a medal. And I was pretty certain. I was like, yes, I'm going for a medal. I, I knew inside I was, you know, I should get a medal if I run my race. But I was, you know, stayed on that. I don't want to go for bronze. Cause I know how that ends up. So, yeah, I just, the trials were a big indicator. And then the rounds at Paris, I was just really relaxed.

• 27:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, good.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:18Cameron Hanes?

  So you had confidence going into the final?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did.

• 27:20Cameron Hanes?

  How was your, what was your splits on the rounds?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I think the first round was maybe 336 and then the next one was 332. And 332 is like, it's, it's never gonna feel easy.

• 27:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's still fast.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:38Cameron Hanes?

  But it didn't feel that bad?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like, okay, like, I kind of just kept that controlled. And that would have been like, that was one of my fastest times ever, like in my life. Like top, probably top five or six fastest 1500 I've ever run. And I was running it controlled.

• 27:54Cameron Hanes?

  What, what was your PR going into the final?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  330.

• 27:58Cameron Hanes?

  330.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  And I'd run that twice.

• 28:00Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  And I'd, I'd, it was technically a PR at USAs, but just by a fraction of a second. And I was like, well, I did that and I kicked pretty hard. I forget when I closed the last 400 in like a maybe a 54. I'm not sure exactly, but that was kind of indicated that if I run it more even, then I have a big time coming.

• 28:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I knew sub 330 was, you know, not guaranteed, but I knew I was capable of that. But then like 327 was, you know, kind of out of body.

• 28:36Cameron Hanes?

  That's a big, big jump, dude. God, crazy. Um, yeah, I can't imagine. So I don't know how many times I've watched that race, probably more than you. I don't know. It's such a cool story though, but in that race specifically, yes, it was super fast, but

• 28:57Cameron Hanes?

  it seemed like because you were like, I don't know, there's such a rivalry between Kerr and Ingrubitz and that they were like playing off each other. And I saw Ingrubitz and I think, did he kind of, he came into the rail when you came up, but then he got distracted because you dropped back and then he went out to Kerr to try to push him off, right?

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Seemed like that.

• 29:24Cameron Hanes?

  And then you were able to sneak back in on the rail on the second time. Is that what it was?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much exactly like that. And of course, I don't know what's going on in their heads, but what it felt like to me was, you know, 200 to go. I moved into third and I thought, oh, I have a medal locked up. Let's run. Let's just finish it. Let's, let's run smart and let's get to the line. And then, you know, I, I felt really comfortable. I was still on top of my stride and, you know, in years past, at that point in the race, sometimes I'm going, I'm losing my form and I'm going crazy and my chest is puffed out. But, you know, this time around, I was on top of my stride.

• 30:07Cameron Hanes?

  It seemed like you were good posture, good, pretty tight.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, which was really cool to go back and watch the race just to see that, that progression.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  But then. A hundred to go, a hundred ten meters to go, the inside opens up and you know, I like to think, you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty patient in those situations because I'm hoping something moves and usually almost all the time, something moves, especially when there's just three of us.

• 30:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Um, and so it opens up and I go for it and he see me go for it. And then I think, you know, Inga Britton sees me and he closes it down and he run and starts running the shorter line, which is smart. Like he's just such a good racer. But then Kerr comes on the outside and I think he kind of wanted to match him and so, you know, he had to pick one or the other and Kerr was, you know, the bigger threat maybe in his mind and so,

• 31:01Speaker 01

  then it opened up again, you know, right, you know, I kind of was thinking, should I go around? And if you watch the race, you can see me kind of make that decision. And then as soon as I think that, the inside opens up and I can't believe it and, you know, comparing what was in my head to watching the race, at that point I won the race. But it was crazy watching the footage and I didn't move into the lead until 10 meters out from the line. But like, it was like, in my head, I remember thinking, I can't believe that. I can't believe that just happened because like, I don't know, it just, what you, it's kind of like what you dream about.

• 31:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I mean, it is what I dream about.

• 31:36Cameron Hanes?

  Perfect dream.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:38Cameron Hanes?

  And I mean, so when you cross a line, what did that feel like? Just like, did I win? I mean, I don't know, what were you thinking?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can see it on my face a little bit. It's like, you know, in slow mo at 10 meters out, I'm already like, like, I can't, it's like a look of like disbelief.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  And I was telling this to someone else, but you know, it was the weirdest feeling where, you know, I crossed that finish line and no one was in front of me and it just felt like. You know, this sounds like kind of maybe like I'd make this up or is like in a movie, but it felt like it was just like me and maybe two other guys on the track. And it was like almost quiet. And like everything else disappeared. And then you can see the disbelief on my face and then it then I hear the loudest crowd I've ever heard at a at a track event, honestly, anywhere.

• 32:32Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Um, and then I just kind of like, you know, let out a scream because I

• 32:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I like know what I did and it's pretty, pretty unreal.

• 32:43Cameron Hanes?

  Ah, that's insane.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:45Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I can't even imagine. It's a, I just can't, I don't know. I just can't imagine what that feels like as a runner to be, that is the pinnacle.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:57Cameron Hanes?

  That's the greatest it's it ever gets. I mean, and to achieve that at 23 years old, right? Or 24?

• 33:05Speaker 01

  23.

• 33:05Cameron Hanes?

  23.

• 33:08Cameron Hanes?

  Unreal. Um, yeah, that I I love watching those races. There's a few races I've watched a number of times. I mean, what I watch Centro, of course, you know, because he's been on the show and a big, big fan of just track forever. Um, so that was a pretty, pretty cool one, but then with yours, same thing, just because I don't know those it is, it's, I don't know. I don't want to say, you know, current Ingebertson, how tall are they? They just look like the prototypical middle distance. Like they're what, six?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Uh, they're both a little bit taller than me.

• 33:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Ingebertson's probably six, two, maybe six, three.

• 33:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. And then

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:54Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're, you're just back there just grinding and then you just fucking win. I mean, it's, I don't know. It's pretty amazing and watching all the little, the, the chess moves of that last however long, you said at 200, you were in third.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 34:12Cameron Hanes?

  But then, did you get passed? Because I thought, or maybe you, maybe you're still on third, but did you get passed in between 200 and 100 by anybody?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 34:21Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  At that point, it was the top three was

• 34:23Cameron Hanes?

  Stayed, stayed the same.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  I guess Ingebertson faded to fourth, but

• 34:27Cameron Hanes?

  That's right at the end.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So afterwards, what did they say? I mean, are they disappointed or they, what's the mood afterwards?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I mean, they were both disappointed. I mean, Ingebertson only wins gold and that's, you know, why he's, you know, the champion that he is and same with Kerr.

• 34:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  And so they, they both came in with one goal and that was gold.

• 34:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  But, you know, they both congratulated me after the race and I still went on the podium with, with Kerr and, and Nagoos. And I mean, Nagoos was obviously, you know, he's over the moon. He medaled and just made it USA at one and three.

• 35:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Which is just incredible.

• 35:17Cameron Hanes?

  That hasn't happened since when?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  I think it was like 1912 or something like that.

• 35:23Cameron Hanes?

  That could have been, was that, was that the last time the US won before Centro?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:29Cameron Hanes?

  1912, I think.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 35:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So God, what a, I mean, it's a long time ago.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:35Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy. And I saw, I did see the interview. I don't know who it was with. It was you and, is it Nagoos? Yeah. And then talking at the Olympic stadium, I guess. I can't remember. Do you remember that interview with you guys?

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:52Cameron Hanes?

  On TV?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  On NBC.

• 35:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. It's pretty, I don't know. I, I'm just like everybody addicted to the Olympics during that time and just love watching all the competition.

• 36:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, surreal.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's what makes the Olympics like that much cooler is that, you know, obviously you're in a track outside of the Olympics too, but there's so, hundreds of thousands of people that don't care. They don't care about track at all until, you know, this one race at the Olympics or whatever it is. And then, you know, then you get a fan like for life.

• 36:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  It's just like, just incredible. And yeah, to, to have the race of my life at that race. Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine a better scenario.

• 36:35Cameron Hanes?

  I do think that we were talking. What's the world record? One twenty?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Three twenty-six.

• 36:41Cameron Hanes?

  Or three twenty-six?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:42Cameron Hanes?

  Think you got that.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I mean, naturally, I gotta, I'm going for it.

• 36:47Cameron Hanes?

  You got to.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, I mean, being your age and just like, just talking to you, I'd love your mindset about improvement, self-improvement, and like the incremental differences you can make that's gonna help that performance. And it just seems like you got, I mean, the perfect attitude, mindset, um, I don't know, um, I don't know how other runners are, but like, uh, um, respect for the history of the sport, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, all that stuff. And it feels like that's part of how you create a legacy, you know, you have a legacy now, but like, you're not, doesn't

• 37:30Cameron Hanes?

  feel like you're done. It's like you want to submit that. And when you think about it,

• 37:37Cameron Hanes?

  doubling up in the fifteen hundred meter gold in two Olympics, when, has that happened before?

• 37:43Speaker 01

  I, I think it has. It's been a while, and I think.

• 37:46Cameron Hanes?

  Never for an American, though, probably.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  No, never for an American, for sure. Um, yeah, I should definitely know who it was, but I think it's been done once.

• 37:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, someone fact-checked me, but.

• 37:59Cameron Hanes?

  It's all good. Um, so, yeah, so you grew up, we'll go back, whatever, just real quick. So, in Indianapolis, what's the track scene like there?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  I mean, Indiana's like, there's a lot of good runners that come from Indiana. Um, yeah, it was, it was always like, you know, my dad was really involved in, in my training and, and all of that and at my practices. And, um, it was always like, he gave me the tools, and he kinda just like, put them on the table for me, and I, either I can use them or I, or I don't. And I definitely used them and.

• 38:35Cameron Hanes?

  Did he push you, or did you, did you not need that?

• 38:39Speaker 01

  I mean, I think. Like a healthy, you know, he kind of showed me like this is you're naturally talented at this and like, but it's, he was never, you know, too pushy, but I think it was a healthy amount and I wanted it.

• 38:54Cameron Hanes?

  Better dad than me then, because I definitely pushed my boys probably unhealthy.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  There's a balance, there's a good balance.

• 39:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 39:05Cameron Hanes?

  Was he a runner?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, he, he ran it through high school, but you know, not past that. And then when I got back into running, he got back into running.

• 39:13Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, you know, got into it and he ran a 50 miler for his 50th birthday.

• 39:18Cameron Hanes?

  Whoa.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  That was big.

• 39:20Cameron Hanes?

  That is.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  But yeah, he was always, you know, just there for, you know, keep me kind of dialed in.

• 39:27Cameron Hanes?

  Like what, what tools did you say he'd put out there? Like what would he do?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Well, like, um, pretty early on in like elementary school, we went to like a, did like a form, like a running form, little summit class, which like honestly still think about just like the basics of running and running efficiently. Um, and then, you know, to these, you know, believe it or not, there is running camps, which is might be funny, but, uh, you know, went to running camps and, uh, you know, on these treadmills in middle school where I, you know, I figured out that I have some natural speed. Um, and then also just, you know, found this training program and kind of, you know, tailored it for me as well. And it was kind of just an assistant coach, you know, throughout elementary, middle school, high school.

• 40:16Cameron Hanes?

  Your dad was?

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  But kind of, he would take a step back, didn't step on anyone's toes, but you know, he was kind of making the training.

• 40:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's interesting. Um, so, but you always cared yourself. You never had to be like, no, I don't want to go to do this or,

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:33Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because it seems like kids. It's hard for kids to stay focused on any one thing if they can. And you can start that discipline and that focus like at a young age, then by the time you get in your twenties, you're so much further ahead of every other competitor. Unless they too have been focused their entire life, but so were you always, you always cared?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:56Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, about being, being the best you could be?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Um, I think it's funny now I've, you know, I was really into watching sports. And when I was in like elementary school and would get so into the Colts games and Pacers games and get wound up and at that age I would like, you know, I'd be so upset like I lost if they lost. Um, and then, you know, I think it was like, I found something where, you know, I had a natural gift for. And then I could also, you know, work at it. And it's so beautiful about running is you get out what you put in. Um, and I think I noticed that pretty early on and I wanted to outwork everyone. I, I thought.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Who, I kind of think of who would outwork me. It was just kind of how I thought about it and um, I still think about that today, but you know, finding that avenue where I could, you know, you know, excel and work at something and there was a tangible result. You know, running is so, you know, clear cut, you either run faster or you don't.

• 42:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Or you win or you lose.

• 42:03Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Um, and so it was very easy to see and, uh, you know, I liked winning and I hated losing. So it was the perfect, uh, you know, combination and, uh, yeah, I just always had that. You know, I think it's, that's the case for, you know, anything if someone wants to, you know, get their kids into it like, they're going to have to love it and you can't make someone love something.

• 42:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah. I mean, I. I face that in a different way with, I would hunt the wilderness for elk and people would look at it and be like, oh, I want to do that. But then they get back there and it's like you're by yourself, it's hard. And then they realize they thought they were gonna love it, but they don't. And you can't make them love it. You know, it's like, if they don't love the suffering of the mountains, they're gonna be miserable the whole time. And so it feels like that's kind of what, what your example is like too. It's like you loved it and you can't make somebody love it. So yeah, your dad was there, these people helped you, but it was, it was based on the love you had for competition.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:04Cameron Hanes?

  And from being your best. Um, yeah. So how would you, if you'd say you have to outwork everybody, how would you do that when you're young?

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, at that point, it's like, you know, it changes as you're going through and, you know, going through the systems and, you know, middle school to high school to college to professional, but um, running is one of those things where you can't just put in more reps always. I think basketball and, you know, other skill-based sports, you can shoot more baskets and you're not going to get injured doing that. With running, you can't just run more and more and more and more. You're gonna get injured and you're gonna break. And so it was kind of finding those areas where, you know, it's almost like, you know, it's, you know, are, are you lazy or, or are you not? We're like, you know, there's all these

• 43:54Speaker 01

  little things like, you know, be dialed in on your diet and, you know, you can just say you eat healthy or you can really pay attention to what you're eating and, you know, dial in your sleep and all of these little things where, especially in high school, no one really cares that much. I think, you know, there's a good group of people that do care a lot, but it's pretty, it gets separated pretty quick. And then I think you move on to, you know, college and that weeds out the people that didn't really care. And now everyone cares. And so you have to drill down even tighter. And the professional scene, you know, people are doing this for a living now. And they're, they're not gonna cut any corners, but you know, there's still that, those little areas where you can, you know,

• 44:36Speaker 01

  check in with doctors and, and see how your blood is. And so many things you can do. Um, and I just don't think it, everyone is staying on top of all those things. So I, you know, you can't stay on top of everything and you can't overanalyze, but um, I think I can outwork people.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  You know, elsewhere off the track.

• 44:56Cameron Hanes?

  I would dedicate them, basically.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:59Cameron Hanes?

  I'm more dedicated to this process than you are.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cuz you see people like i- in every walk of life, they put in some effort. They're like, okay, I need to be rewarded. I'm gonna have a drink or a beer or a cheeseburger or whatever, but um, yeah, you so in regular life, people do that way more often. They're rewarding themselves way more often than the work they put in, but it probably, as you said, it the complexion of that equation changes, but still in the professional ranks, they're still human. So it's like, how how often are they does say they deserve a break or a cheat meal or whatever. And if you do it less, I don't know.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:42Cameron Hanes?

  I guess you got a separation there.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  No, and and I think that that was more clear to me when I turned professional and met professional runners and realized they still wake up and feel like they don't, I don't want to do this. I do too, but like they've definitely been humanized and like, honestly, some people, some of these runners lifestyles, I'm like, you can, you're just like sitting on gold and

• 46:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  not doing anything with it. You know, you could be so much greater, but you're kind of depending on your your talent.

• 46:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you know, I I have, I do know a few professional athletes and I was asking, um, you know, there's one that has a mindset that I'm thinking of like you and I asked, how how dedicated are, you know, your teammates? And it's a team sport. He's just like,

• 46:34Cameron Hanes?

  not that.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:35Cameron Hanes?

  And I said, oh, just like talent. It's like, yeah. And so if you, so of course, everybody's good. Everybody's got the talent. That's how that's why they're pros, but they're just getting by on talent. But if you have somebody who wants to be like, you know, this icon of the sport, it's just like everything. It's yeah, of course, talent, that goes without saying, but it's then it's like all the details and the training and the off season. And uh, yeah, I want, I was gonna, I love taking new people hunting. And this is in totally in their, as far in the off season as you could get. They said, no, can't go, got to train. And you know, I love that.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:17Cameron Hanes?

  That's what cuz. That's who you remember. You remember the icons, you know what I mean? Of course, people know, I guess Reggie Miller would be an icon if I'm thinking of the Pacers. But didn't you have like, do you remember Detlef Schrempf?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:32Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, so, and I'm not, nothing about him, but I mean, there's icons like Jordan. You know what I mean? Everybody knows Jordan. Pacers fans would know Reggie Miller and Detlef Schrempf and everything in all, had some great players, I think. Was it Roy Hibbert?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 47:49Cameron Hanes?

  The center?

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:50Cameron Hanes?

  I love that team too, because they were pretty, but they were, because they were playing the Bulls all the time. But, uh, yeah, you, the icons of anything are the ones who just like, just want it more, have the talent, of course, but then also will sacrifice more than even the other pros. So that's kind of where you're at, it feels like.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, everyone's heard this, but going to practice and doing that work, that's the easy part.

• 48:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  That's where you get amped up and you're like, like, let's go and put in work. I'm sweating, I'm out here, you know, I'm in the cold or I'm in the blazing high heat and you kind of get amped up. But then it's like, when you go home and no one else is there and how are you, how are you recovering? Even though that sounds, you know, crazy to be like, you have to relax more to get better.

• 48:41Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, and I like what you were saying about hunting. I think so many people like the idea of it more than what it actually is.

• 48:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  But, um, you're not going to get very far.

• 48:52Cameron Hanes?

  No, I mean, who doesn't like the pomp and circumstance of the Olympics and seeing all that? It's like, okay, well, how bad do you want to be there? Of course, everybody would love that.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:02Cameron Hanes?

  But it's like, yeah, are you willing to, to pay the price? You know, I had this other guy too. We were running Pisco. We did a couple summits and it was dark and I think it was kind of rainy. He's like, man, I can't believe we're out doing this right now. And I said, Well, this is fucking easy. We've got a camera guy here. We're together. I said, you want to impress me? Do this shit by yourself at night in the rain. That's what I, that's who impresses me.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:29Cameron Hanes?

  Not to be like, we ran today and it was great, but remember all the people out there? Everybody's in a good mood. It's sunny. It's Sunday. The Ducks won. This fucking life is great. Okay, do it when the Ducks lose. And it's some shitty cold December rainy day and you're out there by yourself.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:47Cameron Hanes?

  That's what I want to, that's who inspires me.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. No, that, I mean, yeah, that's the difference.

• 49:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:53Cameron Hanes?

  And it's, it's so, you know, I don't know. I don't know. It's just like, I'm not that Olympic athlete like you or the champion, but I still think about like, I, even for what I do in my little life is like, I still have to outwork everybody. I still have to do more than anybody would do. And that's been the only, that's the only way you make a name for yourself essentially.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 50:21Cameron Hanes?

  I was curious too. So what is your diet like?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't have like a, you know, I don't, it's not anything crazy, but um, you know, I just make sure I'm, you know, fats, carbs, uh, fats, carbs and proteins and, and just paying attention to everything. And honestly, I'm, now I'm paying attention to a lot of the extra shit that's added to food.

• 50:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  I mean, that's, I think that's the.

• 50:49Cameron Hanes?

  The seed oils.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Seed oils.

• 50:50Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  That's terrible for uh, inflammation and I mean, you name it. It's all so bad. So you know, all my meat I try to get from, you know, local farms. I don't.

• 51:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Put any, any crap into it. Um, but yeah, it's a, you know, I also, it's like, there's all these things you consider, but you can't be so strict, I think, at least for my, my, my life where, you know, I don't count my calories. You know, maybe I could, but.

• 51:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  I think sometimes that gets in the way of performance.

• 51:23Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, just, I think eating smart and, uh, yeah, just being smart about what you're putting in your body. Cause that's the fuel and you know, you gotta feel right.

• 51:34Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah. And then you mentioned sleep earlier. How, how much do you pay attention to that?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the same thing where I, you know, I usually get around eight to eight and a half hours of sleep.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  You know, and I, I don't think you get this far without having a, a good feel of your body. Where I, I know if I need more sleep and I'll, you know, I'll catch up on it or whatever. But it's all the same things where I, I'm focused on, how do I, you know, optimize my sleep?

• 52:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, people like Huberman, you know, talk all about that.

• 52:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  You realize how valuable that is. Um, uh, or you can be laying in bed for 10 hours, but you didn't have quali- quality sleep. So.

• 52:18Cameron Hanes?

  Do you have a sleep eight, eight bed? Do you know what that is?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:24Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like the, we have one, but I think, I think they're a sponsor or they were, but anyway. It does the temperature of your bed. So it like to sleep better, supposedly they say the bed should be cold and more blankets on. And then it tracks your sleep, but it'll say how, how long you were in REM sleep, how long, you know, different things. And so it's, but that, that temperature of the bed and then it heats up as you get, I think closer to, to waking up. But yeah, it's just another, another tool to measure.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Cameron Hanes?

  Quality of sleep essentially.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:00Cameron Hanes?

  And it'll give you a score.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I could really use one of those.

• 53:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:05Cameron Hanes?

  I think, I mean, Huberman has one because I stayed at his house and I was just like, I had a sleep eight bed and I didn't even have it hooked up or set up. And I went and stayed at his house and he had that. And I was just like, holy shit. I've never slept so good.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:20Cameron Hanes?

  So came home and set it up and that's a big one.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I mean, that, that, that sounds amazing.

• 53:26Cameron Hanes?

  And I never used to worry about, because I never had time to sleep when I had my job. It's like, I still needed to get all my miles in, still needed to do all the training, still had to work. I was at work 10 hours a day. So I'm like, I have no time, you know, sleep is going to suffer. I just don't have time to sleep.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:42Cameron Hanes?

  But now, yes, I've noticed that even at my age, my elderly advanced age, I'm still able to, uh,

• 53:52Cameron Hanes?

  Perform like I did decades ago.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:54Cameron Hanes?

  And I think it's because of just, you know, better sleep, better quality sleep, um, better food supplementation, all that, which is, you know, we're learning so much about performance every day, it seems like. We have these, we have the Hubermans and the Dr. Andy Galpin and these people are learning about, and that guy up on Piscata today.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 54:16Cameron Hanes?

  What was that guy's name? The football guy.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:19Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, from Australia.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  His name's Ben.

• 54:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, I mean, but there's so many people that that's their job. It's like, how do we help these people perform at the highest level? And that's exciting.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:32Cameron Hanes?

  Um, I, Cal, I thought of something too. So you, you said, like, you were this running phenom. It seems like, I saw you ran in the eighth grade a four thirty six mile, which is insane. But then what happened? You said you won the state title as a senior. So what happened like the first three years?

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean,

• 54:57Speaker 01

  four thirty six.

• 55:00Cameron Hanes?

  That had to be like a record, was it?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I actually got beat in that race by another eighth grader.

• 55:05Cameron Hanes?

  Did you?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  He might have the record.

• 55:07Cameron Hanes?

  Who was it?

• 55:08Speaker 01

  His name's Luke Upton.

• 55:09Cameron Hanes?

  God.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  He gave it to me. But, um, yeah, I ran four thirty six there.

• 55:16Cameron Hanes?

  Hey, do you remember that race? Like, that, how much did he beat you by?

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Like a second.

• 55:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:22Cameron Hanes?

  And so do you remember the, like, what happened?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, before that race, I think my PR was three forty eight.

• 55:30Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  So.

• 55:31Cameron Hanes?

  Way faster.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  So I ran way faster.

• 55:34Cameron Hanes?

  Twelve seconds.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of, so I was happy with it.

• 55:37Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I was still like, I still got beat in it.

• 55:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 55:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Um, but then my senior year, I ran for a four oh seven in the sixteen hundred.

• 55:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, so that's, that's the difference. And each year I was chipping away at that. In my junior year, I got second. Um, the thing is with Indiana.

• 55:58Cameron Hanes?

  Was it in the mile or what was it?

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, sixteen hundred.

• 56:01Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Which is nine meters short.

• 56:04Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, gotcha. Okay.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, but, you know, a lot of states have like divisions in high school, but Indiana was all one. The best people all raced.

• 56:14Cameron Hanes?

  That's like Hoosiers. Did you ever see it?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:17Cameron Hanes?

  Cause didn't in that movie, didn't even this tiny school play the big school?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's.

• 56:22Cameron Hanes?

  That's kind of how it is still?

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:23Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  No, it's exactly like, it's just, there's this big turn like bracket pretty much on how you advanced to state, but it's everyone in the state has the same chance of getting there.

• 56:33Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  So it's a lot harder to win. I think there's only like two, like one other state that does that, but that's my excuse for why I didn't win until senior year.

• 56:43Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. Yeah. And you ran four oh seven as a senior?

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:48Cameron Hanes?

  So when did you break four minute mile?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  I broke that my freshman year at Oregon. I ran three fifty eight, which what my first race at Oregon, I ran, I also ran four oh seven in the mile and I was kind of like, am I just stuck at that? Is this my peak? Is this the fastest I can go? Um, and then, you know, I think that happens a lot when you get thrown into college running and you're with all these guys that are just beating you up and practice, um, kind of get thrown to the wolves a little bit. Gave it a little bit of time and then I ran three fifty eight my freshman year at Oregon, which was, you know, sub four was the really big goal.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Then that next year was,

• 57:30Speaker 01

  that was that twenty twenty one season.

• 57:32Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  And me and my teammate Cooper Tier, we ran three fifty indoors, which he just, just beat me at the line and that was a collegiate record and I was the number two and that.

• 57:44Cameron Hanes?

  Eight seconds faster in just one year?

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was like, that was one that on paper sounds just like, what happened?

• 57:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  But it was COVID was in the middle of that and it was weird and we were just training really hard.

• 57:59Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Also just matured a lot physically. I was kind of, you know, a big change, but that race kind of broke the NCAA a little bit. People were like, what just happened? Like, I think it was three fifty two was the record and that was like untouchable. Now everyone's running kind of just crazy. I don't know. There's a lot of things to chalk it up to, but.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  But yeah, that was the the progression. And now I think my three twenty seven converts to like three forty three, maybe three forty.

• 58:35Cameron Hanes?

  Three forty three. Oh, my God.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Which I still have to run the actual mile to get. That's a conversion. I run three forty eight, but.

• 58:42Cameron Hanes?

  That is so fast.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  It's kind of unreal, like to just, yeah.

• 58:46Cameron Hanes?

  What's the mile world record?

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Three forty three flat, or maybe not flat, but something.

• 58:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So you're there. I mean, you're right there.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:56Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, conversion wise, that's insane.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:01Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, because it's like the four oh seven as a freshman is not even that long ago.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:05Cameron Hanes?

  You know?

• 59:06Speaker 01

  It's not. Yeah, five years ago.

• 59:08Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, oh, crazy. Um, I was curious. So when you're getting out of high school, obviously, you had a big name. How did that? How did you end up at Oregon? Did you always want to go to Oregon? Or what was your? What was that process like?

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, Oregon was my dream school. I I watched the Prefontaine movie when I was super little, getting into running. Um, so that just kind of like planted that seed. Um, and then it was kind of just a dream, you know, until, you know, I had to have the results to back it up. Um, to me, that was like, that's where you go if you want to be good in track. You know, there's a lot of good schools, but that's where I wanted to go. Um, you know, Nike U is also just cool to, you know, as a high schooler, you want to, you want to be there.

• 59:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it wasn't until my junior year where I started getting college offers and then my senior year where, you know, I actually emailed Oregon first. Um, got no response and there was a, there was a coaching change happening, but I was kind of like, okay, like, I feel like my times are fast enough, but still getting no response. I got a response and, um, eventually, and it's now my.

• 1:00:19Cameron Hanes?

  Did you send another email?

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  I think so. I, I.

• 1:00:22Cameron Hanes?

  What'd you say? Hey, hey, fuckers?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Like, I'm gonna be here, whether you like it or not. Yeah, I, I forget. I was in town in Port. I was coming to town for another thing. And I was like, I'm gonna be here. Like, can I just visit the campus and heard nothing? And then a couple of months later, you know, my, now my current coach contacted me.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  And we talked, talked through it. And he's like, we got a spot for you. And, you know.

• 1:00:48Cameron Hanes?

  He was at Oregon at that time?

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, Ben Thomas, uh, who's now at Virginia Tech, but. Yeah, that's, that's how that went down and it was, you know, the dream and then I feel like rarely does something like that live up to the dream, but in this case, it definitely did.

• 1:01:07Cameron Hanes?

  It did, huh?

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is just so cool.

• 1:01:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. I've been down to the new Hayward and I've been like, have you walked through the old stuff and, and then I watched a movie about like, like the men of Hayward or something like that in that little theater? Have you done that?

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's pretty cool.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  No, it's.

• 1:01:25Cameron Hanes?

  But for a runner, I could see like with all that history and then Prefontaine and then it's like, of course, yeah, you got fear. I mean, you want to run at Oregon for your track.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  It was a no brainer.

• 1:01:38Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, so I don't know. I, I think when I was, when you were saying that you would outwork people in high school, I was thinking back to that Without Limits movie with Pre and I remember they would go, or he would go and run 10 miles before school, like and then go to school, then do the track practice, but it seemed like he had that attitude about outworking everybody. And then his mindset, you know, as we talked about earlier, the suicide pace and, you know, he's going to win to, to beat him, you're going to have to be willing to die and today's a good day to die. I mean, all of that stuff is so epic. But, uh, was, uh, like who were your running idols coming up?

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that was the first runner I'd heard of.

• 1:02:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Um, so I mean, that's just like the, the icon of I feel like any young runner. Um, and then most of them were, you know, Oregon, Oregon alum. It was, you know, Galen Rupp, Centrowitz, Andrew Weeding. Um, those are the big names. Um, Futsam Zinasilassi is from Indiana and he ran at Northern Arizona. Um, and he was kind of the first guy, close enough to me in age where I was like, he, he turned pro and I was like, oh wow, like that's like the, the pathway there. Um, so like, yeah, all those guys and, you know, I was, I was just fascinated in, in Oregon and, you know, all these guys that I named were Olympians and, um,

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Just like footsteps that I I wanted to follow in, but you know, I had a lot of work to do to get there. So getting to Oregon was like, you know, like I said, a dream come true. And you know, now I get a chance to kind of prove that I belong in there too.

• 1:03:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. When when did the Olympic dream seem real? Cause when you're a kid, it's like, it's probably hard to think about the Olympics too realistically.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:33Cameron Hanes?

  But when did you realize that I could make this team?

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Someone asked me like a couple of weeks ago, they're like, when when did you decide to start training for the Olympics? And I kind of thought about it. I'm like, I never really decided to train for the Olympics. I trained to reach whatever goal was was next. You know, started with the state title and then it was an NCAA title and then it was win USAs. So that 2021 season, I keep going back to it, but it was just that breakout year where, you know, we ran 350 indoors and that qualified us for the trials. But still not fast enough for like the A standard. And you need the A standard and top three to make the team.

• 1:04:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  So we had the B standard. So we got to race in the Olympic trials. And I was like, I didn't even know, like, like that wasn't the goal of this season was to make the Olympic trials, but you know, now I've qualified. This is kind of crazy. And then the year kept going on and I I won three NCAA titles that year.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  And then I got into a couple of races with some professionals and I was beating them. And then, you know, by the time trials rolled around, you know, NCAA is over. I won that. And kind of the top people were Centrowitz and Yarden Nagus, you know, who was also a college guy at that time and hadn't proved it yet on the professional.

• 1:04:58Cameron Hanes?

  Did he go to Oregon?

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  He went to Notre Dame.

• 1:05:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, but it's just kind of been like, we've kind of been progressing together through this, but.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  That's, you know, yeah, by the time the Olympic trials rolled around, that's when the Olympic dream.

• 1:05:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Was like, really, really, cuz I'm like.

• 1:05:16Cameron Hanes?

  You're proving yourself.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I'm actually in this situation now and going into that, I still didn't have the time. But there's another, it's kind of conflated, but there's, you can also get it off world ranking.

• 1:05:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  And me and my coach talked about it. We're like, well, we don't have the time, but if we win this race, it should bump up my world ranking.

• 1:05:36Cameron Hanes?

  High enough.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  To make it. And so that's exactly what happened. And I actually finished the race not confirming that I was making the team.

• 1:05:44Cameron Hanes?

  No A standard.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46Cameron Hanes?

  But you do, got the world ranking.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  So I had to wait like a week until they called me, but I had a pretty good, we were running the numbers and we were like, that should make it, but it was still kinda.

• 1:05:54Cameron Hanes?

  What, what was your time and what was the standard?

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  I ran like three thirty-five point, like point three, I think.

• 1:06:03Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  And the standard was sub three thirty-five.

• 1:06:06Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  And I'd run three thirty-five like two or three times that year. But it was just cuz I was, I was just racing that year. I was never going for a time.

• 1:06:13Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  And yeah, it was always like, damn, like maybe if I was going for, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:19Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, that's, what is that, three hundredths of a second?

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:22Cameron Hanes?

  Is that what it was?

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Cameron Hanes?

  That's like, no.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:24Cameron Hanes?

  No, not much. Um, yeah. Well, that's in, I don't know. It's a, yeah, pretty incredible. Um, yeah, so that, that changed. Okay, now, now I wanted to get to this part.

• 1:06:41Cameron Hanes?

  So we need to start talking shit to make people care. When did, uh, like, who, okay, well, we can't just go into talking shit about people, but like, who's your rivals now? Like, if you wanted to get another one of those, who's like your biggest threat, do you think?

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  It's the same guys.

• 1:07:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:07:06Cameron Hanes?

  They're not getting too old?

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:07:08Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  They're, they're, they'll be in it. They'll be in it for the next Olympic cycle for sure. Um, you know, but.

• 1:07:16Cameron Hanes?

  You're younger, you're kind of on the younger side, though.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I mean, uh, Anger Burton's also pretty young. I think he's a few months older than me.

• 1:07:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay. Yeah. So he'll be around for a while.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Kerr's a little bit older and the Goose is a little bit older, but you know, it's, you can never count out. Like the athlete that I was this time around, where I think, you know, there's that athlete that's right on the cusp and they just need that breakthrough race.

• 1:07:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And that's who you never want to count out.

• 1:07:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  And I'm never, I'm never going to count that out because that was me.

• 1:07:52Cameron Hanes?

  So who's that right now, do you think?

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Good question. Could be anyone.

• 1:07:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  I mean, Hobbs Kessler is the other American. He was fifth.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  You know, Neil Zaloros was also, I think he was sixth. There's a, there's a handful of people that are always in the mix, but you know, haven't, haven't got that global medal yet. And like, like I said, that was me. So.

• 1:08:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  You know, I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to crush their spirits before they can get a chance.

• 1:08:19Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Now we're talking. So, so yeah. Um, why, why are you going to repeat?

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  I think I'm the best at, you know, rising to the occasion.

• 1:08:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Like what I was saying.

• 1:08:37Cameron Hanes?

  Do you remember Big Shot Bob? Do you know who that is?

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:08:40Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I think he played for the Lakers. I think he won seven NBA championships. I think, think he's won more than, than Jordan. Yeah, yeah. Can you, can we fact check this? Look up Big Shot Bob. Tell me how many championships. So point is, is like, he hit a lot of big shots.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:01Cameron Hanes?

  So he rose up to, even though he doesn't have like, you know, we don't even sure how many titles he's got, but he hit a lot of big shots. So you're like, you rise up, you're not Big Shot Bob, but Big Shot Cole.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Cameron Hanes?

  Right? In that when, when it matters, you're going to get it done. Is that what you're saying?

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  I think so. Yeah. Back to like what I was saying earlier, if I'm, take myself out of the race, I'm watching on TV. I'll put my money on, on me.

• 1:09:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  If, just look at my career and all these races where I'm going into it, like he should be top three. We'll see. And I end up winning and I, you know, that's like more, I, I proved to myself more and more that I, I'll rise to the occasion when it matters most. And, you know, this was now the, the pinnacle of, of the sport is the Olympics and I had the race of my life. I just have a lot of trust in that.

• 1:10:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah, that's good.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  It's big shot Rob.

• 1:10:07Cameron Hanes?

  No, Rob?

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  And he has seven.

• 1:10:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, what's his name? Robert Ori, right? Is that what it is? No, see, that's Bob, Robert.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Oh, they call him big shot Rob, Robert Ori. Yeah.

• 1:10:20Cameron Hanes?

  No, they don't.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Big shot Rob.

• 1:10:23Cameron Hanes?

  No, Robert, Bob is short for Robert. Did you know this? Anyway, he's got seven?

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Cameron Hanes?

  See, that's impressive.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  That is impressive.

• 1:10:33Cameron Hanes?

  He hit a lot of big shots. So, um, you're the best. You're the best in big races. But you gotta assume people are gonna improve because they're gonna chase you. How are you gonna improve?

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that, exactly. Like, the, the sport is always, uh, it's always rotating and cycling. And, you know, I got like sixth in, in Tokyo and it's like, it's not like sixth was guaranteed at this Olympics. It's not like I have to beat, I only have to beat five guys. Like those people cycle out and some of the same, same guys. But, you know, I also have to get back to that level. Um, but I think there's so many areas for me to just, like we were saying, just dial in.

• 1:11:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, you know, my, my biggest thing is just staying healthy and staying consistent above all. Like, you, you just gotta, you know, you gotta protect the goods and, you know, you're not gonna get anything if you're, if you're not running. So, um, I'm just trying to stay healthy because that was the name of the, that was number one priority this past year. And, you know, that's, we saw what, what, what that got me.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  That's, that's a boring answer, but that, that's my answer.

• 1:11:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta stay the path, basically. Yeah. Not go on too much of a victory, victory tour, get back to work.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  You always gotta get back to it.

• 1:11:54Cameron Hanes?

  We did two summits on Piska. You just keep doing that.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  We're putting in the work.

• 1:11:59Cameron Hanes?

  You got a PR on your bench.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. This is looking good going into 2025.

• 1:12:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, look at this. So two summits, a PR on the bench, fricking killing it with the bow.

• 1:12:11Cameron Hanes?

  Look at this. This is Cole Hocker's new Hoyt, the keep hammering edition. What do you think of that?

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's, what's the poundage on that 200, I think?

• 1:12:20Cameron Hanes?

  It was right under 200. It's like 190. It's one of the highest poundage bows ever recorded by man.

• 1:12:28Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, you shot great today. In which, what I, you know, we talked about too, what I like about it is that when you're so consumed with a goal or something in your life, it's hard to like turn it off sometimes. But shooting a bow, it's like that way, like you're not even thinking about it, but you're not thinking about whatever you're obsessed with. You're thinking about shooting this, this bow and doing all, a million different little things we talked about. You know, we had the herd bull down there. I call Wayne the herd bull because he's like, he's like one of these big bulls here and he's been doing it forever. But, uh, so he's like the, the leader. Um, but all those little tips and, and things, these checks and balances you gotta do to make sure that arrow is gonna go where you're aiming.

• 1:13:13Cameron Hanes?

  So when you're thinking about all that, you can't be distracted by the regular pressures of life. So it's almost like therapy in a way where it's just, you're so into the, into what you're doing.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it's a skill that I didn't think I would want to get better at, but now I'm like, maybe I'll take up, maybe I'll take up bow shooting.

• 1:13:36Cameron Hanes?

  There you go. Well, you did a great job today. I mean, and we can tell right away, kind of how somebody's gonna do. And like with your first, even like that release and practicing that release with that trainer and then getting the bow, we could tell after a handful of shots, okay.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  I'm a natural. You guys heard that.

• 1:13:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, you did great.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  I think you're being nice, but I'll take it.

• 1:13:58Cameron Hanes?

  No, you did great. You did great. I had, I had an amazing day. I know you've had, you know, you've got plenty to do. You're, they're the gold medals in Olympics. You've got plenty of things you could do and you spent an entire day lift, run, shoot with me, did the podcast and I'm so thankful. I mean, I've been a fan. You know, I've been a fan for years. I love watching people perform at the highest level and I, a goal that I have with this podcast is, is talking to outliers and trying to, there's like some common themes. If you're the top of your game, no matter what it is, there's these common themes that ties these winners together.

• 1:14:39Cameron Hanes?

  And so that's why I love sitting down with you and talking about your mindset and it's, I'm so impressed by what you've done at 23 years old to sit there with the gold medal and then have these goals of getting better and improving. It's a, I don't know, it's very inspiring to me and I know to the listeners, they will love it. So thank you for being so open and sharing and willing to spend time.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Of course. Yeah, I, I really appreciate it. And yeah, today was great. I always love coming back to the old stomping grounds of Eugene and

• 1:15:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  no better guide, so.

• 1:15:10Cameron Hanes?

  You're a hero here. We saw a lot of people on Piska that recognized you and were pretty, pretty tickled to see you out there, took pictures and I think they were surprised.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  It's cool. Yeah.

• 1:15:21Cameron Hanes?

  It was a good, good Sunday for them to, to see a local legend. So thank you. Man, it's a, it's, it's an honor and I can't wait to see what you do on the track here coming up. And I don't know, can't wait for the next, next Olympics.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Me too. Actually, I can't wait. Give this one some time.

• 1:15:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, as a fan, I can't wait. I wish it was every year, but I know you got, yeah, you got plenty of other things to, to achieve and accomplish and yeah, just want to thank you for your time.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Appreciate it. Thank you.

• 1:15:54Cameron Hanes?

  All right, cool. Take care.