Wagner Moura

Wagner Moura is not only the pride of Brazil, he's a first time Oscar nominee! He joins Josh to talk about his career, from telenovelas to NARCOS to his award winning turn in THE SECRET AGENT. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! QUINCE -- Go to Quince.com/HAPPYSAD for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  The Brazilian passion is like, is like no other. You know that. You know that first step.

• 1:04Speaker 03

  I love that. I have to say, I love it. I love it. I think, and I love to see Brazilians engaging with a cultural product because it's, of course, the football, our football, what you guys call soccer, it's also a cultural Brazilian landmark, as samba, as carnival, you know? And I love all that. But films is like to see, like, it's like to see Brazilians are rooting for us, the way they root for athletes.

• 1:40Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh and hello especially to everybody in Brazil. You're all listening and watching, right? We have Wagner Moura in the house today on Happy, Sad, Confused, first time guest. I'm so excited to welcome the star of The Secret Agent and an Oscar nominee to the pod for the very first time. Thanks, guys, as always, for listening, for watching, however you're enjoying Happy, Sad, Confused. You are much appreciated.

• 2:07Josh Horowitz?

  I've had Wagner on the list for some time. I know a lot of folks, I've been hearing you out there online, have wanted to see and hear Wagner on the podcast for a long time, and I'm so happy it's finally happened. If you don't know about Secret Agent by now, you're probably listening to this podcast for the first time because you guys have good taste. The Secret Agent, of course, is Oscar nominated four times over, including a Best Actor nomination for Wagner. It is a tale about totalitarianism, authoritarianism in the late 70s in Brazil, but it's very much a tale about the times we're living in now. It reflects a lot of what we're going through around the world, certainly, and it features a fantastic star performance from Wagner, who you know and love from Elite

• 2:49Josh Horowitz?

  Squad, from Narcos, from Civil War, from so many great projects. And it's really exciting to see him take center stage on the world stage with this project. And he was a delight. Wagner is so intelligent, so cool. What a great conversation. I'm so thrilled to share this with all of you. Before we get to that, though, quick reminder, as always, our Patreon is how we keep the trains running around here, patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. Get early access to all our podcasts, bonus materials, merch, discount codes to our live events, so much more. Check it out. If you like what I do and want to support what I do and want to see more of what I do, patreon.com/happy/sadconfused. We are in, I guess, we're in

• 3:34Josh Horowitz?

  kind of the final stages of awards season. I've got at least one, probably two or three very cool Oscar folks still to come on the podcast in the coming weeks. So stay tuned. I've got you covered. I'm really excited for the next batch of episodes. And yeah, and that includes certainly this one. Wagner Mora, I'm not gonna say anymore except to say, this guy is so intelligent, so well spoken, so has such clear, good taste and a good head on his shoulders in terms of his approach to art and politics and the marriage of the two. Yeah, you're gonna enjoy this one. If you enjoyed half as much as I did, you're in for a treat. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with the star of The

• 4:18Josh Horowitz?

  Secret Agent, it's Wagner Moura. Here we go. Wagner Moura, you are officially unhappy, sad, confused, sir. Welcome to the show. Thank you for your time today.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here with you, man.

• 4:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's been a, it's been a long road for you. This is all for a very, very good cause. I've actually, I've been in your orbit a few times. You probably haven't clocked me, but I, I saw you at Telluride. I was at the table next to you at Critics' Choice. It's all, it's all been leading to this Wagner. This is the rite of passage to spread the good word.

• 4:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it feels like, exactly. That was, it was meant to be. Here we are.

• 4:52Josh Horowitz?

  Here we are. No, congratulations, man. The film is fantastic, needles to say. Four Oscar nominations. You can tell, you can tell how accomplished the movie is if you go on Wikipedia. The awards section is about a mile long. So that's the reason why all these months later, we're still talking. First, just talk to me. Yeah, yeah. Talk, talk to me a little bit as, as an Oscar nominee for the very first time. Who, who's getting the plus one or plus two? How many tickets do you get? Kids coming, wife?

• 5:22Speaker 03

  So yeah, so I'm, I'm, of course, I'm, I'm taking my wife with me, a, a son. And that's what I got. I, I applied for, for the, for more tickets, uh, to, an extra, extra tickets too, so I could buy them. But it's, it says it's pending, you know, so it's, it's, they haven't approved that yet. So I don't know. I have, I have a friend coming from Brazil. He's a very good friend of mine. I'd love her to join. Or, or maybe my, my, my boys, my kids. I don't know if it's gonna be a boring thing for kids to watch, although they're not kids anymore. So yeah, so maybe I'm gonna bring my boys if they, if they give me the, the extra.

• 6:01Josh Horowitz?

  You've got, you've got some pull now. I think, I think it's gonna pan out for you. I mean, you know, you've, you've obviously, you've had a lot of great accomplishments in the career, but does this, does this run feel particularly special since launching in Cannes?

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's like, uh, yeah, major, uh, recognition of, of the film, of, of, of, you know, Brazilian films, you know, like it's been like since last year with, with I'm Still Here. We are experiencing a, um. A very, very beautiful wave, in Brazil especially, of people like rooting for the film and supporting the film and engaging in social medias and that I think it's kind of amazing. And it's beautiful. So yeah, no, it's been a very special moment for, for, for, yeah,

• 6:57Speaker 03

  for, for me as an actor, for, for the film, for Brazilian cinema. It's very special.

• 7:04Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I can, I can speak even from my limited advantage when I've never had the pleasure of being to Brazil, but being someone that's engaged in, you know, film culture, celebrity culture over the last couple of decades. And anytime I talk to Brazilian actors, someone adjacent to that world, I, every like tweet is like, when are you coming to Brazil? Come to Brazil. It's like the Brazilian passion is like, is like no other. You know that. You know that first step.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  I love that. I have to say, I love it. I love it. I think, and I love to see Brazilians engaging with the cultural product because it's, of course, the football, our football, what you guys call soccer, it's also a cultural Brazilian landmark as samba, as carnival, you know, and I love all, all that. But films is like to see, like, it's like to see Brazilians are rooting for us, the way they root for athletes, you know, like, and, and it's beautiful, you know, because it's, that country has a very, it's a very unique country culturally. Now, Brazil is this gigantic country in South America that speaks Portuguese and consumes

• 8:06Speaker 03

  its own culture. And it's very, you know, it's very diverse. Did you know that Brazil has the biggest Japanese community in the world? Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it's in Sao Paulo, or it's, or Salvador, my hometown is the blackest city in the world outside Africa. You know, big Lebanese, Syrian, Italian, German. It's, it's, so it's a very diverse country. It's like the, the Brazilian passport is the most wanted passport in the black market because everyone can look as a, like a Brazilian. This is very diverse, diverse and beautiful.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, country. So it's be, it's kind of cool to see people like, oh, like seeing themselves in a film, in their, in a cultural, you know, uh, product and, and rooting for that. And, and, cause I, I have this, yeah, like, there's no country develops without that, I guess, you know, like with a building, identity, building like, and, and I think that that's what we're helping, uh, cinema, Brazilian cinema is helping out like, uh, to create an identity. It's, it's, it's crazy. Cause it's like, it's all these South American countries are, they're our films from Argentinian films, Peruvian films, Chilean films that they, they're, all of them are sort of like films in search of an identity. It's different

• 9:26Speaker 03

  from European films or even from American films. It's like, it's, it's like films that they're searching for to create an identity for the country. And, uh, and I think that that's, that's a very healthy, uh, thing.

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's, yeah, I mean, that's how certainly America has been viewed for, for decades through the prism of television and more importantly, film, iconic film, like those iconic images go around the world and they define who we are.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  What we understand as what, what the US is. Exactly. That's the, I grew up watching American films. So I have every time, every time I, I think about Christmas, although like Christmas in Brazil, it's summer. I think about snow, you know, and I think about, you know, the American Christmas movies. And, and so it's, yeah. And it's beautiful, like to export that identity, but also to create identity, identity within the country, like just so the citizens would see and recognize with those symbols and those, uh, uh, cultural, uh, landmarks that they otherwise wouldn't even notice. You know, that's what's beautiful about art and books and, and art, visual arts and films and then like a theater, it creates a, a, the identity.

• 10:45Speaker 00

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• 11:16Speaker 04

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• 11:49Josh Horowitz?

  Let's set up. I mean, a lot of my audience will probably have seen this film or know about this film. But give me a little sense of just like the mission statement behind something like this. Like where, how does this one come around in terms of your collaboration with the director? What you wanted to put out into the universe? And did this succeed in all respects or surpass your expectations?

• 12:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And they suppressed our expectations in terms of recognition. I knew Clément Donce was a director that was, you know, you know, all of his films were all were in Cannes and he was always, all of his films were in New York Times critics pick. And he, his being in this film festival circuit like since he started as a filmmaker, but...

• 12:40Speaker 03

  What happened to this film, like Academy Award nominations and all that? That's been very, uh, it's suppressed our, our intentions, I guess, our, our, our best dreams. Our, but what we wanted, like this comes, this came from a very personal thing, I guess, that Cleber and I shared. Uh, we, we knew each other, you know, when we met in, in Cannes. He used to be a critic and 20 years ago, we met in Cannes. He was interviewing me for a film that I, that I did 20 years ago. But we became friends and then, and I started to see his films and I really wanted to work with him, especially after I saw his first film,

• 13:19Speaker 03

  film called Neighboring Sounds, which is, I think it's a masterpiece and, and very Brazilian film rooted in that, that tradition that I was just mentioning. Like, like trying to create it to understand, like a very political film and, and understand what kind of country that is. And, and, and, but the secret agent was, came from a very personal thing, which was what, what it was to be, to live in Brazil under a fascist government. Which was under Bolsonaro from 2018 to 2022. And Cleber and I were both very vocal, excuse me, against, uh, uh, him and we both suffered the consequences of that. So it's, I think that the, the,

• 14:03Speaker 03

  I knew exactly what this film was going to be about, what that character was going, um, to be. It was, it was not, it was not like the kind of thing that like a director shows you a script and hey, would you like to be in this film? It was like something that we kind of like created. I'm happy to be one of the producers of the film, to create together. It came from a very, yeah, personal, uh, necessity, like to talk about, uh, how do you stick with your values when, when everything around you is saying the opposite?

• 14:35Josh Horowitz?

  You were saying though, I mean, under Bolsonaro, you, you felt the repercussions years ago. Can you elaborate on that? Like what, what was the cost you, you took as an artist for being so outspoken back?

• 14:47Speaker 03

  I directed a film called Mariela, right? Like this, this was my first time that I directed anything. And, and it was a film, it is a film that I'm very proud of. It's a film about a real character, the leader of the resistance in Brazil. The armed resistance against the dictatorship.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Bolsonaro himself is a fan of the dictatorship, right? Like, he openly praises the dictatorship. He thought that, he thinks that the dictatorship was a very, very good moment in the country. And he actually openly, uh, uh, when Dilma Rousseff, uh, uh, uh, our,

• 15:23Speaker 03

  one of our presidents was impeached, well, not impeached, he was a victim of a coup d'etat, like a political coup d'etat, back in 2016. He was a congressman and he dedicated his vote to impeach her, uh, to a torturer, a guy called Brilhante Ustre. He said, "I want to dedicate this to the, to this very important man of the, of this..." Brilhante Ustre was a guy who would torture parents in front of their kids. You know, so that's, that's how disgusting this, this, this, this human being is. And, and so, when I directed a film called Marigela, about Marigela, who was a freedom fighter, a guy who was killed by the dictatorship and, and fought against the dictatorship.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  He took it personally, and of course, I was saying lots of things openly against him and his government. But I guess that, I, I understood that fascists, uh, uh, they are not as concerned... For them, it's, what we do is way more dangerous than what we say. You know, I could spend, I mean, if I had social media, could spend the entire day saying, "No, Bolsonaro is a fascist," that wouldn't have the same impact of, like, doing a film like the one I did. Right. You know, and, and, and so I did the film, I directed the film in 2017, end of 17, beginning of 18. Bolsonaro, uh, became president in 18.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  My film was, was premiered in Berlin in 2019, and I couldn't release the film in Brazil. You know, he... Found a way to censor my film, but it wasn't censor like back back. How it was back during the dictatorship like it want that's not gonna happen. It was like a cynical censorship. But he he just blocks all the possible ways and Brazilian cinema is very dependent on. On government fundings and and things like there is an agency that regulates what we do that and. So that's what that that's what it was. I mean, I could only release the film in Brazil in twenty twenty one after lots of like a big fight. You know, and and the worst about these people is that they empower.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  As you know, like their followers in in their worst. You know, people that are kind of living in a parallel universe of information and and and. And so it became sort of dangerous in many in many. What places that we were premiering the film and having like a release in the film, we had to have metal detectors in. At the door, you know, because we were receiving threats of like, we're gonna kill you guys. And so it was it wasn't it was it was hardcore. And but also it was a fight that I was happy to to to to participate, you know.

• 18:15Josh Horowitz?

  You're you're also no stranger, though, from what I gather, like throughout your career. For your films to be politicized, whether you intend them to be or not. I mean, Elite Squad was kind of politicized in a way that you didn't. Anticipate or want, right? That was kind of appropriated by. Forces that were out of your control.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, but if I were right, but I think that's all part of. Of the of what we do, like, I think we it's like, I don't. With Elite Squad, I was very surprised by. By the way, the film was seen by the right, like they they really. Because for me, always Elite Squad was like a film about. Let's show how the police operates in in in Brazil and. And, you know, and how.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  You know, sick that system is. But the rights of the film is an apology to to police brutality. And I and that's I think that's part of the game. You know, that's part of what of like you don't you can't control like the the the the the meaning of of I can say what I thought and what I and what I. Yeah, when I made the film and when I did, but I can't control what people think about it. It's it's and that's actually very interesting.

• 19:39Josh Horowitz?

  It is fascinating. I mean, I go back.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  I've been learning so much about it's crazy, but sorry. When we I've been doing this Q and A's about the secret agent and and and and talking to journalists and all that. And I've been learning a lot about the film, things that I didn't know, you know, and it was like you and and and. Yeah, then some journalists say something to me, oh. Yeah.

• 19:58Josh Horowitz?

  And worrying about human nature and what we see or choose to see. Well, again, we're all kind of more than ever reinforcing our own beliefs it through whatever we see. But like, I mean, what you what you just talked about just there like reminds me growing up like we're about the same age. I don't know if like Paul Verhoeven's movies meant anything to you, but I always think of like, you know, Robocop, Sergeant Troopers and like those like fascist, those anti fascist movies that were seen by some as glorifying fascism. When in fact that he was the biggest critic of fascism.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

• 20:31Josh Horowitz?

  So.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  I love Verhoeven. He's a he's a hero.

• 20:35Josh Horowitz?

  So so talk to me a little bit about, actually, I'm curious if you'll indulge me talking a little bit about growing up for you. What your influences were. I don't know, just as as a budding artist, as someone that was coming of age in the eighties. What were you consuming as a film goer, a TV goer? Were you watching world cinema, American cinema? What were you consuming?

• 20:57Speaker 03

  I was watching a lot of American series and films, American blackbusters and television. Lots of Brazilian telenovelas. It's another Brazilian cultural.

• 21:13Josh Horowitz?

  Which you ended up being a huge part of your career, right?

• 21:15Speaker 03

  I did two of them, yeah, and it was great. Listening to music, listening to lots of Brazilian music. That's something that I love, listening to Samba. But also listening to American and Brit rock. You know, like the British bands from the 80s, you know, The Cure, Smiths, you know, New Order. You know, like those. And then in the 90s, and then when I started to, and I was like in 16, 17, I started to, I discovered Radiohead and was like, oh my god, what is that?

• 21:53Josh Horowitz?

  And in terms of the film work, I mean, I know, like you've, I would imagine, like, sure, you discover at some point, like we all do, if we're cinephiles, we discover the works of Mike Lee and Ken Loach and all the socially conscious kind of stuff. But like, again, being my age, I would imagine you're also, you must have seen like Schwarzenegger and Stallone and Star Wars.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah, Rumble, yeah, and all those. All those, yeah, absolutely. In the 80s, you know, that's when you would go to a VHS store. I would, you know, see many, many of those films, like, yeah, Rumble and whatever Schwarzenegger was doing as well and killing the amount of people that they killed in those films. But also too, by that, back then, like when I was like 17, 18, I discovered the Italian neo-realism. You know, and I started to connect the Italian neo-realism with when I saw,

• 22:55Speaker 03

  I remember when I saw Bicycle Thieves or when I saw.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Rocco and his brothers or Rome opens it. Those films were like for me was like because I connected it immediately with the Brazilian films from the sixties, the movement in Brazil called Cinema Novo. Like working class people and doing films with no money and handheld cameras and doing in location, non-professional actors. All that, I think that started to with merged into also into the French New Wave and all this. But it it it it kind of made me think of like again about identity of like, oh, that's sort of like how we Brazilian filmmakers operate. Like it's it's again like trying to understand the country and that's why there's so many

• 23:46Speaker 03

  documentaries coming from Brazil. So like and and the handheld camera work and all that is like true to and you just you just mentioned Mike Lee and and and Ken Loach. So I started to discover all the Darden brothers, you know, like those those filmmakers that that that made films about people that felt closer to me than Stallone and and and and Trustinger. You know, like I know these people, I knew, I know them. It's like people there, I mean, I came from a working class. My father was a sergeant of the of the of the Brazilian Air Force and my mom was a house with this. I knew people like that those people in those.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  So starting with Italian New Religions and and making that transition to understand of Brazilian films and like how I loved films about people that I kind of knew.

• 24:42Josh Horowitz?

  You could recognize, yeah.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  More Happy Sad Confused coming up.

• 25:22Speaker 04

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• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  What was the first, like when you started to get serious about it, what was the career that you realistically imagined for yourself? Was it in TV?

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Theater.

• 26:02Josh Horowitz?

  Theater?

• 26:03Speaker 03

  Theater, yeah, theater, stage. Because I come from Salvador Bahia, which is northeast of Brazil. It's not the center of like, it's like, I don't know what would be the equivalent here. But it's not New York, it's not LA, it's not Chicago, it's not, it's very interesting culturally, but it's, it's, I don't know, it would be, so from actors from that part of the, also there was, there was lots of internal xenophobia in Brazil, it still is. And it's in the secret agent, there was a scene about that, like, in the restaurant, the restaurant scene. That's still a thing, like, there was lots of prejudice against people that came from, from, from where Claber and I came from.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  So an actor that from Salvador would never be in a telenovela back in the 90s, you know, because they spoke with the, with the huge indigenous accent and they had to have some sort of, it was, it wasn't, it was out of my league completely.

• 27:02Josh Horowitz?

  So was it a major breakthrough then getting into the telenovela game for you? And how did that happen if that was not the norm?

• 27:09Speaker 03

  I know, I think the world was starting to change, you know, like, and, and, and, it's, I, it's been in the right place, that lots, lucky.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  Opportunity meeting.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  Opportunity, you know, like, I remember when I, when I was doing theater and we were doing this play and the play, we performed the play in Rio and the play was a big hit there. And, and then Brazilian films back in the, in the end of the, of the 90s, beginning of the 2000s. That's when we called Hetomada, like the like the restart of Brazilian film industry. And the the Brazilian film directors were exactly looking for faces that were not like the television kind of, you know, profile. So that was exactly when me and those actors from the northeast arrived in Rio and Sao Paulo.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  And we started to make films and from films, from the being recognized uh by cast directors in films, they would go like, oh, so maybe this guy could be in a telenovela, but look, because the Brazilian star system is built on around novellas, a lot of soap operas. Like that's where actors make money and be become famous and all that. So I start, I we myself and people from my generation, some actors started to be accepted in the telenovelas uh universe uh in the beginning of the two thousands without without having to play stereotyped uh characters.

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  So so forgive me, because while I've seen much of your work, I have not seen the telenovela work. So educate me, did you have?

• 28:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't think you're missing anything. But it's.

• 28:53Josh Horowitz?

  What was what was the cat like, was there a type of character you were doing in those two? You said there were two in particular?

• 28:59Speaker 03

  I did two of them. One of them I was the lead. I was like the good guy. You know, because they're they had three archetypical, archetypal archetypicals.

• 29:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, uh archetypes. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Archetypes of of characters in telenovelas. This is the good guy.

• 29:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Usually a rich guy. There was the good girl, which is usually a poor girl girl who falls in love by the with the rich man. And there was the bad guy, who sometimes it's funny, is is a funny character, but he really wants to destroy the life of those beautiful people.

• 29:35Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good job. So you you.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  It's very black and white. Yeah, so I did the I did the I did the nice guy in one of them. And the other one, I played the bad guy. So I think I did what I had to do there. And also, it takes you like, it's great, man. I mean, it's it's such an uh an uh great exercise. And I was feeling that I was walking in something that was very Brazilian, you know, like Brazilian actors, the actors, they they they kind of have to go through telenovelas thing. Because it's like you learn, you you you you shoot like.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  I kid you not, man, you should, if you have a main role in a you shoot like a hundred, like twenty, twenty-five scenes per day. You know, and you have to memorize.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  You're literally memorizing it?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  And that's amazing. We kind of know, we memorize all the Mexican, Mexican actors, they use the, that thing.

• 30:29Josh Horowitz?

  The ear, the ear wig, yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  The ear, the ear thing. Brazilians don't, they just memor, they go back home and they memorize their lines and they wake up in the other day and they should, your life is just like basically that.

• 30:40Josh Horowitz?

  You must be a godsend to a director or a rewriter on set, like they give you three pages of dialogue, you're like, oh, that's a cinch, I can do that in a.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Oh, that's great. Easy, you know, that's, that's what I'm, that's what I'm talking about after doing a telenovela, like to go to, to make a film where you shoot like one scene per day sometimes. It's amazing, it's great, it's just like, you learn, you learn, I feel like, like, like, sometimes I, I, I, I draw a parallel with Brazilian soccer, football soccer players, but they, you know, these kids that grow up in the favelas and they play like, in like these fields with mud and shit. And then they bring them to play like in a beautiful.

• 31:18Josh Horowitz?

  Stadium, yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  Stadium in Ireland, they go like, fuck, yeah.

• 31:26Josh Horowitz?

  A lot to cover, I want to jump ahead, we will mention a bit of Elite Squad, which I imagine is a big leap for you and, and I would imagine leads to new exciting opportunities, I mean, I don't know if that's like when, when, you know, coming to the States started to emerge as an opportunity to start to maybe even get in rooms for, for stuff, like, do you, do you remember the, the period of time when you came to the States and, and what kind of stuff you were going up for?

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember because in, the Elite Squad won the Golden Bear in Berlin, like surprisingly, because it was being accused, it was being accused of being a far-right film. And the, and the, the president of the, of the jury was Costa Graves.

• 32:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  And then we received the, that award from the biggest left, the biggest left wing.

• 32:12Josh Horowitz?

  That'll legitimize you, yeah, totally.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we were like, okay, that was, that was good, and then, but, and, and surprisingly, I think maybe because of, of Berlin, people in Hollywood, not like, like a, a regular moviegoers, but like producers, directors, like cast directors. They became aware of the Elite Squad.

• 32:37Speaker 03

  And I started to get like phone calls from agents and things like, like, hey, man, have you ever thought about having an agent here? And I never, I didn't really consider that like a serious conversation, you know, it was like, this doesn't seem.

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  Was it, was it, was it concern that, was it, was it, I can't imagine them actually leaping to that? Or that if I get opportunities, they're going to be the worst stereotypical roles that you could possibly imagine? Or a little bit of both?

• 33:03Speaker 03

  There was that exactly. And there was also like, yeah, you should come here, but I should go there. And what should I do? You know, like, it was a little like too far away from my, I didn't. But then that there was in two thousand and ten. I met this guy who I worked with for, for long, for almost ten years. And, and he was, and his wife back then was a Brazilian. And he, and somehow he was like, you have to come here, you know? And there was a moment that I wasn't doing it. It was like, I'm gonna go there. So he introduced me to, it was in two thousand and ten. Introduced me to cast directors, you know, the whole general thing.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  And I remember we're driving his car and he was going from one meeting to.

• 33:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you, you did the water bottle tour, as they say. Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And I did that. And I was like, oh, that was, and people were, I was very surprised how aware people were of Elite Squad. You know, they were like, oh, man. And it, it was like, whoa, they really. Knew the movie and, and seemed excited to talk to me. I was like, okay, that's like, so. And then after that, I did Elysium because Neil, Neil Blomkamp was a fan of Elite Squad. And he, yeah, and he, he asked me to audition for it. I did like a self-taped thing and, and Rio sent it to him. And and and it was a great experience. And then that was my first, that was in two thousand and thirteen or twelve.

• 34:35Josh Horowitz?

  And then and then not not so far after that is is obviously the next giant leap, which was Narcos, of course, and Escobar.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  And then I did Narcos. But Narcos was different because Narcos was came from the director of Elite Squad.

• 34:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  You know, with the.

• 34:49Josh Horowitz?

  It was familiar.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  It was more like, uh.

• 34:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, working with people you knew, but it was also a leap in that, like, you know, atypical for a lot of your stuff, you've talked a little bit about like, kind of, you know, you're playing versions of yourself in a lot of roles and like, you know, connecting, like, where do I connect? And something like Escobar is a huge leap in so many different ways. The famous stories of this, like, the guy on my screen right now does not look like who you play.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  No, thank God.

• 35:17Josh Horowitz?

  In in Narcos, I mean, how much pride in retrospect, it must have been some work, putting on the weight, learning the language, all of it.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Brother.

• 35:25Josh Horowitz?

  Ten years later, looking back, that's a that's a source of pride, I would imagine.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  That was, yeah, it is, because it was like, this was, it was crazy, because like, they, this director, Jose Padilla, who is a good friend of mine. And and, you know, we did Elite Squad and we did Narcos together. So it's, we we became, you know, very, very good friends. And and he and he's kind of crazy. And he was like, also like, a Brazilian guy who wasn't aware of the Hollywood system. He didn't care. So it was like, okay, I'm gonna, they invited him to direct Narcos. I was like, okay, I'm gonna, Wagner, you're gonna play Paulo Escobar. I'm like, okay, I'll do it. Yeah, sure. And I was excited about, but Netflix didn't even know.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  You know, that he was considering me. This is like, came from his crazy mind. He invited me and I was like, fuck, I have, now I have to learn Spanish because I don't speak the language. So I flew myself, I paid for a ticket, booked myself in a university in Medellin, Colombia. I started to learn Spanish. I was eating like crazy and gaining weight. And Netflix didn't even know.

• 36:29Josh Horowitz?

  Now, did you know that Netflix didn't know at that point?

• 36:31Speaker 03

  No, I thought that everything was was okay, you know.

• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  At what point do you find out and how much do you lose your shit?

• 36:39Speaker 03

  I, you know, I I found out when I was in Medellin and they were scouting there. And Jose said, okay, I'm gonna introduce you to Eric Newman, the producer. And Chris Brancato, back then, was the the the showrunner and the writer. And I could see the faces of of the guys when they met me, they were like,

• 37:00Speaker 03

  what is this guy?

• 37:04Speaker 03

  They were like, wait, I didn't know. So this guy is gonna play Paul's court? And I, and that was scary, man. That was like, I was like, he's just Zed. Like, I was, I talked to, dude, they, and they were the, Netflix itself, and back then, but let's remember that back then, two thousand and fifteen, fourteen.

• 37:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  Netflix was known for hiring the talents and leaving them alone.

• 37:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  You know.

• 37:33Josh Horowitz?

  Bencher goes off and does, has the cards, what he wants.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  Hire you and they will go like.

• 37:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  You know, do your thing. You don't want to interfere with your work. It wasn't, it was, that, that, that's how it worked back then. So I think that, again, I think it was lucky because if, if, if it was today, that would never, that was, that would never happen.

• 37:53Josh Horowitz?

  It's lucky, but it's also what you did with it.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Playing in Colombia, Brazilian playing in Colombia, it wouldn't have happened uh uh as well, right?

• 37:59Josh Horowitz?

  Did you and Pedro click? Are you guys still?

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:02Josh Horowitz?

  In touch? Yeah?

• 38:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I love him. And my thing with Pedro is like, I know, I only know Pedro socially because we never got to work together. Like, when he was the cop and I was, yeah, I was the bad guy. He was chasing me and we never really, I never had a scene with Pedro. But we were going out in, in, in Bogota and he is, he was just adorable to hang out with, you know.

• 38:26Josh Horowitz?

  He's probably a good hang, from my limited experience being around him.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  He's so very funny and, and, and, and, and nice. And, but I, I never worked with Pedro.

• 38:38Josh Horowitz?

  So, and one, one wild karaoke night, any story, anything pop to mind as a fun night with Pedro that you can tell?

• 38:45Speaker 03

  I, I, I can't tell those things, man. This is like, what, what happens in Colombia stays in Colombia. No, I'm kidding. Nice. We, we were going out and, you know, we had, we have friends in common. Uh, and yeah, I don't talk to Pedro. It's like sometimes, he was very, when I moved to, to the, to the US, he was super important because he wrote me, I asked him to write me those letters, you know, to the immigration so they wouldn't, you know. Back then, there was, there was no eyes. It was easier, but, but, but, you know, even though, even though it was like, I was trying to come here and work here. And I asked Peter to write a letter saying that I was a good human being and.

• 39:31Josh Horowitz?

  Wow. So add that to the list of Pedro Pascal accomplishments, getting you to be.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  He did that to me. Yeah. Yes. He make, he, he really helped me out with that.

• 39:39Josh Horowitz?

  So, um, again, we're not going to be able to cover everything, but I want to mention Civil War, which I think is just a remarkable piece of work. And it clearly, like you found kind of a kindred spirit, I would imagine in Alex Garland, who's, who's a guy that like, knows how to create like, you know, engrossing, powerful entertainment, but also of great substance and worth. And that film, I think is really going to stand the test of time. I was just rewatching. I mean, that scene with Jesse Plemons is, is an all timer to see. And, and honestly, Jesse gets major props for that, but watching it again through the prism of talking to you, your fear and everyone's fear in that scene is what makes that scene so, so damn chilling. Do you remember shooting that sequence in particular?

• 40:21Speaker 03

  Oh my God. That scene was, it took us like an entire day, you know, like again, like me, like doing 20 days, 20 scenes per day, doing some, but that scene took, took the whole day from like 8am to, I don't know, 6pm with me saying, no, don't kill us. And Jesse going, what kind of American are you? I, I remember that I, at the end, when we, when we wrapped, I laid down on the grass, it was just green grass there, laid down there and cried. And I was just crying because I was just like, this was too much, you know? And maybe even it moves me right now. It was too much.

• 41:02Josh Horowitz?

  It feels so starkly chillingly real. So those, these people exist. Like this is not so far off. That's what makes that movie so, so chilling.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Makes that movie so scary. And I, when I, when I read that script, I remember saying like, oh my God, I, I think this is the most timely thing I have ever read in my life.

• 41:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  You know, and, and, and, and, yeah. And still, and, and it still is. And it's, it's, it's becoming more and more timely, actually, the film. I have, I, I only saw the film. When we released it, I I I might revisit it to check it out again. It's I think it's a great film. I really like that movie.

• 41:43Josh Horowitz?

  Truly. So I mean, obviously, your heart lies in these films that work on a number of levels that we of course, they entertain it to some degree, but they also provoke thought and reflect our life and times, which is is my favorite kind of entertainment as well. I mean, is there at this point in your career with like you've had a lot of great successes and opportunities, I would imagine are better than ever, I would hope. I mean, is there, you know, is there a temptation to find that balance of like, you know, you've certainly you've done some of the big Hollywood stuff. And I would imagine those opportunities come of to meet with the marvels and the Star Wars and you're doing a Star Wars voice, I know. But like, is there an appetite to kind of be in the center of pop culture in that way and contribute?

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. But but I would never be able to do something that I don't truly believe or that I don't think, you know, that I think it's bullshit. You know, I I just I would just be miserable. But I think I I tend to see meaning in everything, you know, and and to see politics in in in I think I did I I did Puss in Boots and I love that film. And I think it's such a meaningful philosophical film about so many beautiful things. And and yeah, of of course, I mean, but I would listen, what I'm gonna do after this whole thing here, I'm gonna do this independent film in Brazil with this Argentinian director called Lisandro Alonso.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Right after that, I'm doing my play.

• 43:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  Later I wrote with with a director, I'm gonna tour with the play in in in in theater festivals in in in Europe. And and after that, I'm gonna direct my my my my film, my second feature film, which is of course a very independent film as well. So yes, to answer your your question, yes, but I but I, you know, like this my year, the rest of my year.

• 43:40Josh Horowitz?

  You know what you're saying.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  How it was going to be like a year ago or yeah.

• 43:45Josh Horowitz?

  Is is the directing effort, is that still last night at the at the lobster? And is that still is that Lizzie Moss and Brian Tyler Henry, two people you know quite well? I'm a big fan of both Lizzie I know pretty well. She's the best.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  She's just the best. She's just the best. And it's so good to work with her. You know, it's just, it's amazing how you work. It's when you work with such a nice human being. That is such a great actress as well, you know, like. I love that. I love what I love with Lizzie was like, we were doing the scenes and and you know, like, I love to work with actors about the action and game on and anything can happen. You know, and you can just trust that whatever. You go, she's gonna be there or the app. It's like, it's so good. Brian is the same.

• 44:35Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, Brian's electric on screen. Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Same thing. You know, it's like, there's no, uh, yeah, I I like just, this is the thing that I love most about what we do is like when it's like, just to look at, look at at the other guy's eyes and like, let's go.

• 44:52Josh Horowitz?

  And that must have been invaluable. We don't have time to go deep on dope thief.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  That doesn't happen all the time, you know?

• 44:57Josh Horowitz?

  But people should look up the circumstances of dope thief in that, like, this guy you're looking at right here had to jump in like with like no time whatsoever. And kick ass. And that's all credit to you, but it's all credit to also Brian of being that screen partner that you can play off of, right?

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Absolutely. He's he's the most, I mean, adorable friend. It's it's it's crazy when you become older. I'm gonna be fifty this year. And it's it gets harder to, when I was younger, it was like, I was connecting with everybody. Everybody was my friend and everybody was like, you know, and when you're older, like to become friends with someone. It's not, you know, the same thing. And and I really cherish my friendship with Brian Tyler Henry. You know, it was, it was, it was such a beautiful.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  Connection, you know, and I I absolutely adore him. As I adore, I adore Lizzie.

• 45:48Josh Horowitz?

  So, so.

• 45:50Speaker 03

  And they're gonna be there with me, not only because they believe in the film and they wanna play the characters and they find it, but because they want to support me. And I really, you know, they wanna be there with me. My first time I'm directing a film in the US and acting and directing is like, it's, I really appreciate it. That's friendship.

• 46:08Josh Horowitz?

  These, and these are the joys, I always say, well, again, we're literally like almost the exact same age of like of sticking around and having these relationships bear fruit in different ways and kind of meet people at different points in their life and career. It's a, it's, it's, it's a moving thing to see from, from all ends. Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:23Josh Horowitz?

  So, uh, uh, uh, on the, on the, the, the lighter side, although I guess a series starring Darth Maul can't be too light. Uh, was it fun to at least dip your toe into the Star Wars universe to do a voice for this new series?

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it was very fun. I love doing these things. Voice, the voice work thing. It's, it really liberates you to, you know, just, I don't know, you get less, I, at, at least when I did Puss in Boots, it was something that I was conscious consciously like going like, just go there and have fun, you know, because as you're not, it's, you, you, you get less self-conscious of, of, you know, no one is seeing you, is just, just there to just, and you go back to what I think is the nature of what we do. It's to have, to play.

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:07Speaker 03

  To have fun, to, you know, to, to not, to, to never forget the, that this should be made with joy. And, oh, and, and, and, and, and you gotta be, you know, yeah, like, like the way when you see kids playing, you know?

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, I will say when I was, when I was sitting nearby you, I was at the, at the sentimental value table near you at Critics Choice, and I looked over on what you were wearing, and I was like, he's kind of halfway to the Jedi robe right there tonight. This, this guy would be a kick ass Jedi. Someone cast this man right now.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, man, that was, that was a wide outfit. Yeah, that was, yeah. I was, I was excited about that. That one looks like a, yeah, yeah, my, I, I, I'm now, I now work, working with this amazing stylist, Elida, and she's throwing me like, you know, things that I'm like, oh, is this? Would a fifty year old man wear this? And she's like, yeah.

• 48:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you can pull it off.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  And I'm like, okay, that's good.

• 48:04Josh Horowitz?

  We any closer to getting you on SNL? Years ago, you said that was a dream one day.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 48:09Josh Horowitz?

  Would you still do SNL?

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Man, I, oh my God, are you kidding me? You know, that would be a dream come true. You know, that's, that's another American, that's another thing. You know, that for me defines American humor. You know, like what's like, I grew up watching SNL. You know, like, and, and, uh,

• 48:29Speaker 03

  exactly, and I went to, uh, I did, I was, I did this interview. This, this talk show, I don't remember which one was it. It was a talk show.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  It's Seth Meyers.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I think it was Seth. It's, it's shot in there, right?

• 48:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  So I, they took me, when I was doing Seth Meyers, they, they took me to the, to the, through this, where the, the stage where they, where they record, uh, SNL. So like, I got to see the stage or the play, that place where, where the, where the, the.

• 48:55Josh Horowitz?

  The monologue.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Where, where the play, where the, the bands play, you know, and all the, when the likes takes place. And I was like, man, that's really cool. That's, uh, yeah, so absolutely, yes.

• 49:07Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with this. Happy second fuse always ends with our family random questions. Uh, Wagner, are you a dog or cat person?

• 49:15Speaker 03

  Dog.

• 49:17Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect, but?

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, but there's a but, I'm totally a dog person. But we, you know, we have a dog and a cat, but the cat arrived like, uh, uh, a year ago only. So I'm, I was getting used to the cat. I wasn't, the cat was like, the cat and I were like, you know.

• 49:32Josh Horowitz?

  Circling, circling each other, yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  But the other day I was very, I was very, you know, I wasn't in a, I was, I was a little sad and I laid down on my sofa and the cat just walked.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  And just, just put the, the paws on my chest and stay there doing like that. Kind of thing. Dude, that was so good. You know, that really sort of like. That sort of reorganized my feelings in like it was a very interesting. We had a moment. The cat.

• 50:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it sounds like it. I feel like I'm interfering just now, just even hearing it was an intimate.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  We had, we had, we had a beautiful. So now I'm starting to, you know, understand the cat. But of course I'm a dog. I'm a dog guy. Ducks, they show affection. They show love that, you know, they, they, they, they, they make a point in being saying like, we are, I'm your friend. You know, like, so I like that.

• 50:25Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 50:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 50:34Josh Horowitz?

  Not really. Okay, that's okay. Do you have a?

• 50:36Speaker 03

  I think.

• 50:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Uh, growing up, did you have a favorite video game? Favorite video game of all time?

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, uh, River Raid.

• 50:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Remember?

• 50:49Josh Horowitz?

  I don't remember, but okay.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  You're old enough to remember this.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  I should know it. Okay, okay.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, River, River Raid. It was like in, I had an Atari.

• 50:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  And I, and I played that one. Like you go with the, with the airplane and you have to put fuel and destroy little things. Or Pac-Man. Pac-Man was great.

• 51:06Josh Horowitz?

  Classic. What, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 51:12Speaker 03

  It was a, it's a picture of my sons, but they are, you know, all like, sort of like, it's kind of cool and funky and they, they now put that, that yellow, they customize it for you. So it's looking, it's looking nice, not like.

• 51:25Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. It changed, changed. I have different photos and they go circling and changing. Right now is the, is the three boys.

• 51:35Josh Horowitz?

  Who, who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Uh,

• 51:44Speaker 03

  one of my best friends is, is, is an amazing actor that came from Salvador to Rio with me to do that play. It's a guy called Lázaro Ramos. And we are so close and we are so, you know, uh, people identify us sometimes as a, you know, and sometimes they call me Lázaro, you know, and, and it's crazy because he's a black dude with a big, with a big, uh,

• 52:11Josh Horowitz?

  Head of hair?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, hair. And, and, and I love when they do that because it's like, it's not about how we look like, it's how close we are and how, you know, it's very sweet.

• 52:23Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Steven Daldry, I did this film with him called Trash in Brazil. And I loved him and I think he's crazy and amazing and really loved him. But we were doing the scene and he came to me and he was like,

• 52:46Speaker 03

  it really took him like thirty seconds going like, um.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Do it again.

• 53:01Josh Horowitz?

  It's the buildup, it's the.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  And I couldn't stop laughing. I was like, okay, man, I'll do it again. Because he really tried, he really tried to say something, you know, like he made an effort, but it was like, it's just not good.

• 53:16Josh Horowitz?

  At the end of the day, just, can we try it again? Can we just do something else?

• 53:21Speaker 03

  It's just not good enough. Let's just do it again.

• 53:23Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the spirit of Happy Sad Confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're immediately in a better mood.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Jack Black.

• 53:35Josh Horowitz?

  What's your go-to school of rock? Just any, anything and everything?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Amazing. And I can't wait to see Anaconda because another good friend of mine did it, Selton. Selton Miller, who is an actor who is in, who is in, I'm Still Here.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, nice.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  He plays a role in Anaconda and I really want to see it.

• 53:53Josh Horowitz?

  A movie that makes you sad?

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Oh. Rosetta from the Darden Brothers. It's such a, or the kid in the bike, or the Darden Brothers films that make me, they make me sad, but they, but they make me feel, you know, they make me believe in the power of films and movies.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't understand why people would eat that. You can't get behind it.

• 54:31Josh Horowitz?

  Stumped you. Is there a disgusting American, Americanism, a uh?

• 54:36Speaker 03

  No, I just.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  There's this, this, this, this, uh, uh, pink Japanese sweet. That's made with beans.

• 54:49Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  They love, they love, they love like the red bean paste and a lot of stuff, but yeah, okay.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  With beans, bean paste, but it's sweet.

• 54:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:57Speaker 03

  Anything that, that's also Americans like dude, they, they like sometimes I was when I was, I was, I was a exchange student. I got a scholarship to study English here and, and when I was 15 and I was in, living in Sarasota, Florida for a month.

• 55:14Josh Horowitz?

  Ultra shock, I would imagine.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was great. And then, but the, the, the family, they wanted to please me as a Brazilian and they, they, and they cooked beans. But they cook it.

• 55:25Josh Horowitz?

  Not the beans you knew. Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  Dude, with sugar, you know, so it was like, I, that's the kind of a combination that I don't get.

• 55:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  You know, beans and sugar, you know?

• 55:34Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's the American way. When in doubt, add sugar to anything. Welcome to America.

• 55:38Speaker 03

  But to beans, that's, that I don't understand.

• 55:41Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Our next conversation, I want to dig into your exchange student Sarasota days. That feels like a, a conversation in and of itself. Um, Wagner, thank you so much for the time today.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Josh, yeah.

• 55:53Josh Horowitz?

  This has been a true pleasure. Uh, I'm sure folks that listen to, watch this podcast have seen it by now, but give it another look because this is one of the exceptional pieces of work of the last year and beyond, uh, The Secret Agent. Um, have fun at the, at the end of this long, exciting road, uh, enjoy yourself at the Oscars and, and best of luck, man.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you. See you around.

• 56:11Josh Horowitz?

  See you around.

• 56:34Speaker 05

  Hey, first time? Love those sneakers.

• 56:38Speaker 04

  Thanks. Depop. Got them cheap.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  Oh yeah? Okay, downloading.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  There's loads on there.

• 56:46Speaker 05

  Wow! Wish I'd had this last week. I just paid full price for mine.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Right?

• 56:52Speaker 05

  And you can't get these ones anywhere. Find what you want for less on Depop.

• 56:57Speaker 04

  Sneakers. Worn once. Excellent condition.