#2261 - Warren Smith

Warren Smith is an educator and founder of the Secret Scholars on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@SecretScholars Go to https://www.expressvpn.com/ROGAN and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Pleasure to meet you.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. I wound up seeing you, as many people did, on those videos that you're making where you were talking to students, you know, just kind of like exploring critical thinking and asking students questions and why they're upset about certain things and getting to the bottom. And I'm like, wow, this guy's like, he's young, he's obviously an academic, but super reasonable and like really level-headed. I'm like, we need more of this. This is really interesting. And then I found out you got fired for doing that. And I was like, if this isn't an encapsulation of all that is wrong with our current higher education system, then I don't know what is.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Well, to be fair, I didn't get fired for that technically. I think I got fired for posting another one similar to it, but I think they were looking kind of... That whole thing was so bizarre for everyone. It was so big. I think there was, at the school where I teach, there's kind of one... This echo, sorry, I gotta get used to this. One like person in control of everything that makes these decisions. And it was so nuts. I think they genuinely, like, we don't know what to do because if we fire him, it'll... Our name might get out there, which is their primary, you know, concern, I think.

• 1:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you not want their name to get out there?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  I just... No, it doesn't feel right.

• 1:42Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  I, um...

• 1:44Joe Rogan?

  It's not important.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not.

• 1:46Joe Rogan?

  No. What's important is that what it is, is that this is a resistance to thinking. I mean, it's really what it is.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  It's out there for sure.

• 1:57Joe Rogan?

  It's a resistance to questioning why people have like certain like deeply ingrained thought processes that are a part of an ideology. And I think what you were doing was really pretty brilliant. It was awesome and I love the way you were handling it. It was like, you know, very calm and rational and just having discussions with students. And you kind of see like a lot of their flailing and trying to rationalize while they have these sort of incoherent beliefs.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't teach critical thinking. I was, when I was a teacher, I was teaching multimedia, like what we're doing now, working with cameras, did a lot of podcasting. I had this lab that I developed over four years with a bunch of Mac computers with Adobe Premiere Pro, Photoshop, a 3D printer. So it was using technology to make art at a special education school with kids that had behavioral challenges and some, a variety, anything you could come up with, we had it there. It was like the last line of defense kind of for public schools that couldn't handle these kids, they would send them there. And so I would just use this tech to work with them in a therapeutic way, kind of that was my goal, the way that would most benefit them.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  And so one day they asked me to do a, hey, can you do a newscast for the school? Like this week at the school, you know, there was this field trip, the soccer team did this, blah, blah, blah, sure. And we want this kid to be on camera and like to do, he's really good at that. And he was getting really nervous on the day. And so I was like, let's just sit down. You've seen like Joe Rogan and stuff, let's do like, just treat it like a five minute warm up podcast. Here, I'll sit down and be on camera. You ask me whatever you want. Well, you know, how have your thoughts on Harry Potter changed, given J.K. Rowling's bigoted opinions? And so that's where the video came from. So I don't, I just want to be clear, I don't teach, I wasn't like, we're going to sit down to learn in the moment.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  We do have conversations like that because when you are doing something like this with students, like, well, what are you going to talk about?

• 3:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Kill two birds with one stone, be as effective as you can. And so a lot of students have questions, like, I've had students ask me, what's the difference between fascism, socialism? What's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? They don't know. And they're genuinely curious. And sometimes you can get another... I had one teacher, the music teacher I worked closely with, and he was like my best friend there. And he would be in the room often, and we would have little debates. And he was from Romania. Yeah, not, I think Romania, I'm blanking, but... And so he had a very different political perspective. And when you're in those debates, the kids were like, phew, locked in, and you can tell. Normally, they're just making noise, and then they're just quiet in their seats. They turn around and they're like watching it.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  There was an effect.

• 4:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think most kids are aware that you're being forced to think a certain way, or at least to talk about things a certain way. And they're, most people are, they don't like being told what to do. People don't enjoy that. And when they feel like there's like a lot of social pressure to adhere to a very specific ideology, I think people don't like it. And so when you see debates where people have differing opinions, and they have, you know, these sort of logical, objective ways of describing why they think about things a certain way, it gets people like, okay, was there another way to think? Like, is there, like, how's this guy doing this? Like, what is, what does this mean? Like, why do we have to say, well, why?

• 5:25Joe Rogan?

  What is wrong with what J.K. Rowling said? And it's exciting to people. And the videos were exciting, and there was a tremendous amount of response to them. I know you're aware of that. I mean, there was so many comments, and so many people were interested in them. They got very popular. And then when I heard you were fired, I was like, of course. It was too good. It gave me hope. I was like, more people should be doing this at schools and, you know, it would help a lot because a lot of this, this really sort of polarized positions that people are taking one side or the other, they just want to win and they dig their heels in and they don't exactly even know why they have this particular opinion that they're defending.

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  They just know that they're supposed to. And so they just kind of bite down and dig in and, you know, and you get these shouty sort of polarizing arguments.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  I've been playing with the idea of how we see the world through stories. I think that has a lot to do with it because people kind of labeled me as the critical thinking guy all of a sudden. So I really started to think about it. What is critical thinking? And the best I can articulate, it's, it's thinking for yourself to contend with the stories that make up the world. Because a lot of the stories are nonsense, some are true, and there's usually a middle ground. And my background's in filmmaking. I kind of fell into teaching. And I spent time in LA and made some movies. And I teach at Emerson a filmmaking course still, where I went to grad school and got my masters. Film is probably the wrong term now because it's all digital.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  It's like visual media art, but I think you can study movies today like scholars are now studying, you know, the great thinkers. Movies will be the artifacts that people look back on for our time, you know, be in museums and things like that.

• 7:23Joe Rogan?

  Sure. We've all been there. You're hungover, thinking about all the dumb stuff you did last night and wondering if anybody remembers. Unfortunately, someone does remember everything you do online and they've got receipts. I'm talking about your internet provider and data brokers and every shady marketing company that gets their greedy hands on your private activity. But this year is going to be different. Give your online privacy a fresh start with Express. ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN is an easy to use app that encrypts your online activity and reroutes it through secure servers, keeping your browsing history private from third parties, and it hides your

• 8:04Joe Rogan?

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• 8:49Joe Rogan?

  And if you're watching on YouTube, you can get your four free months by scanning the QR code on screen or by clicking the link in the description. Yeah. No, we talk about it all the time, that it's a great sort of postmark for culture. Like, if you go back and watch movies from the 50s and then the 60s and the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s, and then today, you can see how different the narratives are, how different the way the films are made, the way people communicate, the subjects that are covered, the quality of the acting and filmmaking, the quality of the cinematography. And it really just shows.

• 9:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you really think about it, you know, human civilization and human history, like, modern...

• 9:43Joe Rogan?

  Society is so recent, you know, the Industrial Revolution and giant cities and cars and transportation and all this, it's so recent, it's a couple hundred years maximum, you know, you go from trains and horses to cars and cities and then you have Morse code to all of a sudden now you have digital communication that's instantaneous worldwide, I mean, it's a rapid change in humanity and a lot of it is, it's the artifact, as you said, is really our media, like what have we created, you know, we were talking the other day about

• 10:23Joe Rogan?

  the limitations of mainstream television and how mainstream television, you know, they're trying to kind of like adapt more towards what is going on on the internet, but they're so hampered by their format, their form, the censorship, the format and the fact that they're sponsored by a bunch of different enormous corporations that they can't really critically talk about, so there's a bunch of things that they can never actually say, so there's news that they can't cover, there's like significant health problems that have probably been a direct result of medication that they literally can't cover because they're being sponsored by these companies, so they're so hampered and if you go back and watch the

• 11:07Joe Rogan?

  early broadcasts from 1945, people had like this way of communicating.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Talking, it's changed.

• 11:14Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's not the way, like if you were having dinner with someone and they were saying, "Tell me Warren, where did you grow up?" You'd be like, "Oh, this is not a real person, this is bizarre."

• 11:23Speaker 01

  The transformation in acting.

• 11:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Is remarkable.

• 11:27Joe Rogan?

  Remarkable, right?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:29Joe Rogan?

  Like you go Marlon Brando, it's like, Marlon Brando is probably like the first example of someone. Yeah, who's like, sounds like a real person.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, this is what I really expect a person to be behaving like, under, you know, on the waterfront, like, under duress, like, this is, this is a real human being.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it became internalized.

• 11:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And now we're in this phase, now where I think the best actors are doing both, the external, like Heath Ledger is my favorite actor of all time and had a huge impact on me. That's why I went into filmmaking.

• 11:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  And he, think about his externality in The Joker and all his roles. He had this, I think the key to acting is about what is not said, what's unspoken, and it ties into everything about critical thinking. It's the best metaphor I ever got from a directing professor. They drew on the board the ocean with a squiggly line. And they drew little boats on the surface and said, these are words. This is everything you need to know about directing actors. Everything beneath the surface is subtext, what's really important.

• 12:30Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  So, if you're an actor and I hand you a screenplay, well, anybody with given enough time can memorize those words. What's meant, what really sets an actor apart is everything else. What's not said, what they do with the words, the intention behind the words. The words are just floating on the surface, they're just the tools that we're trying to use to communicate the elusive intangible, the subtext, everything that's, and the best we can do are bumbling cells or formulate with these tools. So to treat words as the end-all be, the end-all be-all is so silly.

• 13:05Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  You know, like, people say the, the wrong thing now and you get, it's politically incorrect, Papa John's CEO.

• 13:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Right, with no con, context, it's gone up, you know, but it's a larger issue. But it's fat, it's just fascinating how that correlates beyond just film to, because it's, like, it's true that most commu, most communication is non-verbal. So the more time you spend studying, working with actors, studying movies, you start getting really tuned into body language.

• 13:36Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  It has great utility, so, it's pretty interesting.

• 13:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, it's very interesting. And so, when, when you were doing these videos, when you initially did it, did you have any idea of the impact that it was gonna have? The, I mean, did you, did you think, like, wow, this is actually, like, really unique and interesting, I think people are gonna really enjoy this? Or did, were you, like, really shocked?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, shocked, yeah. Yeah, I had been playing with YouTube as a medium since discovering Jordan Peterson in 2017. Because I remember, maybe it was even earlier than that, because I arrived at graduate school in 2016, Boston, Emerson. And all hell breaks loose, Trump gets elected, and there seemed to be a huge pushback. And I had never thought about these things before. And then being a grad student and seeing

• 14:30Speaker 01

  what I witnessed at school, protests claiming Emerson was racist. Which is like, this is one of the most far-left schools I've ever seen.

• 14:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's super far-left.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Can you provide any evidence of that? It was just nuts.

• 14:46Joe Rogan?

  And did it come out of nowhere? Was it like, right after the election? Like, did you, what year did you first attend?

• 14:53Speaker 01

  2016.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  2016? So was this, what time, so this is like, September of 2016, August of 2016?

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Beginning of the academic year.

• 15:01Joe Rogan?

  So this is like, when the elections are kind of heating up and people didn't think that Trump was gonna win yet?

• 15:06Speaker 01

  I remember, because I vividly remember the day of the election, because I was renting a house with three roommates. And I was watching the election, I remember just being like, guys, I think Trump might win this.

• 15:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  We're not, it's not even worth watching, you know? And they were walking around. Time goes by, I'm like, guys, like, and then they started to, what? So no one saw that coming. And I, my big takeaway was, how could so many experts get something so wrong? And that caused me to question my presuppositions, basically my view of the world. And then that opens your mind to someone like Jordan Peterson and all these other great thinkers, Intellectual Dark Web, blah, blah, blah, you know? But that, and suddenly, it's so difficult to articulate what that does to someone like me, an average viewer, like a genuine lover of this space. So it's surreal to be here. Because like, it suddenly causes you to, if you feel like everyone's moving in slow motion, all of a sudden, you feel like you're waking up

• 16:02Speaker 01

  and it doesn't, it's, I don't want to talk about the matrix, because it's so, it's such a strange, it's gotten all this momentum in a different, but it's what it felt like. It felt like you were suddenly, like, how, what? This is so much more interesting and complicated than I thought. And there's no going back.

• 16:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think we like to adhere to certain narratives about the world. And we will want to think.

• 16:29Joe Rogan?

  The big thing is we wanna think that there's a central, there's some sort of competent control, some sort of competent leadership that exists and that the structure of government and the structure of media is established, rock solid and logical. And that these are the smartest people in the world, that's how they've risen to this position and now they, they're there to provide this, you know, like if you have a knee injury, you wanna go to an orthopedic surgeon because he is an expert in knee injuries and he's gonna tell you what's wrong with your knee and what can be done. And, you know, that's a real expert.

• 17:09Joe Rogan?

  And we thought, we think of politicians and we think of the media as being real experts. Well, it turns out, no. It turns out not even a little bit. They're terrible at it. They're not just not good at it, they're really bad at it. They're really bad at it and they lie a lot.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're not much smarter than you or I.

• 17:30Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  And then you realize that about your professors.

• 17:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  This guy really doesn't know much more than like my dad or what's the, what makes you a professor?

• 17:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Qualifies you and often there's just this, and that's what, going back to that core thesis, if we see the world through stories. Professor means something.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Politician means something, these are experts.

• 17:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  They're not much different than us.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  When you were in school, so you, at the beginning, everybody's thinking, there's no way Trump can win, you know, these expert, I think on the day of the election, I think they had some crazy odds of Hillary winning. It was like in the 90%. And we watched it from the Comedy Store. We did a podcast from the Comedy Store called End of the World Podcast. And we, we did this like live stream while the election was going on and we just kept bringing in different comedians. We had a whole, like, like a conference table and it was fun. We did it in front of a live audience and then we updated the crowd whenever, and then when marijuana became legal, Burt Kreischer takes his shirt off and runs around the stage. It was really funny.

• 18:36Joe Rogan?

  It was fun, it was a fun time, but what was most fascinating was the podcast was over and then we all went to the bar. The Comedy Store has this like private bar in the back and on the television Jake Tapper was like just like seriously bummed out talking about Trump winning all these different states. And then we watched a little bit of The Young Turks and Cenk Uygur was fucking screaming, he was freaking out. In the beginning, they were so cocky and so confident and by the end, they were just fucking freaking out. They couldn't understand how everybody got it wrong.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:08Joe Rogan?

  And it, I think for a lot of people, that was the end of trust in mainstream media. That was the first nail in the coffin. Those to be like, you guys didn't, you were so wrong.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:19Joe Rogan?

  You were so wrong.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, how could you get something so wrong?

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and it was just fascinating to watch what's supposed to be the news, right? So it's supposed, the news is supposed to be at its best, an objective analysis of what's going on, giving you the facts. But they were so clearly upset and you know, there's a lot of editorializing on how bad this is and what this means to the world and what does this say about us? That this guy who said grab him by the pussy is now the commander in chief of the greatest army the world has ever known. It was just, for us as comedians, we're like, this is gonna be fun. It was, it was just like, they opened up the door to the candy store and said, go crazy, have fun. This is all free.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:04Joe Rogan?

  Um, but it was, it was a real wake-up call for a lot of people that this system is not, is not really as well-managed as we'd like to believe it is. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances, and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. I know how chaotic things get this time of the year between all the holidays, trying to train,

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• 22:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I'm just trying to go back to those days and think about it, but it was at Emerson. It was, I remember I was taking a class with the dean of the student body.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  And it was a pedagogy class, the philosophy of teaching, and it was right in the midst of these protests. And it was the day of the protest. And so, and there was like 10 people in the class. It's a four hour class. So they're like, we're going to devote the four hours to talk about the problematic racism occurring at Emerson. So we're all sitting around and, but the white students were not allowed to speak. We had to concede our space for four hours. And I'm actually like, what the fuck is going on?

• 23:17Joe Rogan?

  Why was that? What was, was a reason given for that?

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Because it was the moral right thing to do according, because we, um, they turned that, they said to me, I remember, he said, um, I said, what can I, I did say, I was like, what can I do about this? I would genuinely, I would, I genuinely believed everything. I was kind of, I was just starting to question things. So what can I, I feel terrible speaking to the student who had just spoken. Like you genuinely feel every day you wake up and come to class, you feel oppressed? That sucks. What can I do? They didn't have a response because, and they just said, you can just listen. Just take your time to concede your space and listen. And so that's, that was the reason given.

• 23:59Joe Rogan?

  Concede your space. And then why did they feel so threatened? Did they articulate that?

• 24:05Speaker 01

  They, there was a Facebook group that was designed to provide that evidence called Emerson, hashtag Emerson so racist or something. And it was like a student, like a teacher said, no, you can't, you gotta turn in the work or you're going to fail the class. And my first teaching gig occurred shortly after that. And I remember this vividly, the teacher, I was going to be teaching the screenwriting course with undergraduates for the first time. And she's, before the protest, she said, don't let them walk all over you. They will try and take advantage. Like if they don't do their work, just be fair, honest, give them the grade they deserve. After the protest, yeah, Warren, you remember when I was saying that?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Because she got called out on the Facebook page for some stupid, I don't remember what it was. Quote, yeah, Warren, you remember what I was saying about that? Don't, I was wrong. Don't forget to be compassionate because that student is black and it, and she reminded me of how difficult it is to be black at Emerson. And so I couldn't fail her. I couldn't give her the grade that, you know, so.

• 25:13Joe Rogan?

  That objectively she deserved.

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  Why was it, why was it articulated that it was so difficult for her? Uniquely difficult as a black student?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  I'm trying to remember.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  I don't know, honestly. Abracadabra. Yeah, it was just like micro, that's the thing about.

• 25:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  About these claims though, is there is no concrete evidence. It's things like microaggression. Someone made a reference about fried chicken that was, I've heard that one. That happened to my mom, who's a professor, runs a study abroad program. She said, we're really, this place is, they have really, they were in Italy doing a study abroad program. She's like, I know you guys have been missing American food and this place has fried chicken. So, and it's really good here. And two of the students she was talking to at that table were black and they claimed that that was racist. And she was like, what?

• 26:04Joe Rogan?

  The fried chicken one is so crazy. Fried chicken and watermelon, those are the two things that are associated with racism for, as far as foods, which are universally loved. Like fried chicken is delicious. Watermelon is delicious. Like, how could that possibly be a negative? That certain people like delicious food. Like, I, to this day, it's one of those things. It's, it's so bizarre. You could bring up all kinds of different delicious foods, but if you bring up fried chicken, which everybody eats, everybody who eats meat and loves delicious food, loves a good fried chicken. Have you tried Gus's in town?

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Is that the, is that the, where you get the slabs of meat?

• 26:45Joe Rogan?

  No, no, that's Terry Black's. But Gus's Fried Chicken is in Austin. Fantastic. Some of the best fried chicken you're ever gonna have in your life. But if you brought that up to a Black friend, they might like, what the fuck are you trying to say? Like, I'm not, I'm trying to, food's good, good food. Like, let's go eat good food.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  And keep that analogy in your mind about like, the boats floating on the surface.

• 27:05Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  And they're just the tool. What's the intent?

• 27:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  There was no, if there's no intention there, you can't claim that's racist.

• 27:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Unless you want it to be.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  And this goes back to like, seeing the world through stories. If you believe a story is true, I'm oppressed, the world is active, there's systemic racism, there's active racism at my college, I'm a victim. You're gonna start seeing what you believe to be true, you're gonna start finding hints of it.

• 27:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  And it's true as well for like, why it's important to have a moral code, or I personally believe in a higher power, or, but if you believe in objective truth, you're gonna see those lessons when you, when they occur in life, and it's gonna be a help, be a guiding star for you.

• 27:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  But it can be wielded in both ways. It's, it's like the response that I got about J.K. Rowling, it was the ContraPoints YouTube, where everyone was like, you gotta, gotta, uh, counter ContraPoints, she's the one who's taken down J.K. Rowling. And the argument essentially is, I'm, I'm so done arguing, I'm not even gonna debate this. If anyone who believes in transphobia can see that J.K. Rowling is obviously transphobic. And that's it. It's the same thing. If you believe in that definition of transphobia, well, you can find it almost infinite places.

• 28:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem with that kind of arguing is that it's, it's a total cop out. Like, if there is any sort of debate, and there clearly is, when it comes to trans issues, if there's any sort of debate, you have to be able to discuss things. And as soon as you say, if you want to debate, we're done. If you wanna have a discussion, we can't. You, you don't see it, well, we're done with it. Well, you, what you're essentially conceding is, you don't have a logical ability to shut this down. Because if you did, you would just do it. You, you would have a rational conversation with that person, and you would say clearly, look, this is why this is racist. This is why this is transphobic. This is why this is sexist. Like, whatever the, whatever the argument is, and you would lay it out.

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  And as soon as you say, if you don't believe that, then we're done talking.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  I can't even, I can't even do this. That's what I started. Like, my mom disagrees with me heavily on politics, which is okay.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  In the wake of, we were talking about 2016, and I found Jordan Peterson, I was like, this guy, look at this, this is really interesting.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  If I had any kind of conversation with her about it, even to this day, it's often, I think she's getting better, now that I've been making content.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  But it was often a formation of that pattern. I, I just can't do this with you, Warren. Blah, blah, blah. And it's just neutralizing the debate because they can't have the debate.

• 29:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, they can't have the debate because they're not equipped for it. That's all it is. They don't have, they don't have any weapons. Right? If you're gonna go to battle, you have to have some sort of resources. There's nothing there. And when there's nothing there, and you just say, "I can't," instead of saying, like, is there a logical argument that there are men who are manipulating this in order to control women's spaces? And like, it used to be that we protected women against men, and particularly, we protected women against predatory men. Right? Like, perverts or sex offenders, for example. But somewhere along the line, with this woke ideology,

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  we completely eliminated the, the even possibility that a man in a dress that wants to go into the woman's room could be a pervert. Which, to me, was the most insane thing. It's like, you've just given a hall pass to the grossest members of society that we've always feared. We've always feared people that would try to take advantage of women, and, and, and do so in a weird way, where you claim to be one. But you have a penis. You're walking around with an erection in a locker room, and anybody who calls it out is transphobic.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:04Joe Rogan?

  It got real weird.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  And people would counter, and say, "Joe, be..." But like you're, you're, you're taking extreme, you're claiming that trans people walking out with erections, it allows for that capacity, it allows for that to occur. I went, after all this craziness occurred with the video, viral video or whatever, I went back to North Carolina for the first time and my best friends, you know, who I've grown up with and we disagree, it's fine. They were deeply concerned about what I was doing. Right? You're talking to too many people from the right. And I was like, I sat down with Destiny for six hours, but it's never enough. But they, I laid out what you were

• 31:46Speaker 01

  saying and I was amazed that they couldn't follow that logic. What about the mother in the dressing room with a six-year-old? Does she have a right to decide if that six-year-old's exposed to male genitalia? Just to keep it as simple as that. Take out erections and all that. It's like, is it fair to her? And they just can't.

• 32:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  It seems so clear.

• 32:12Joe Rogan?

  But they're just scared. They're scared of thinking logically because if you do, you will be cast out of this group. You'll be ostracized. Like there's very specific rules and they're very much like a cult. Like you have this very cult-like thinking. And if you deviate from that at all, you, you run into the possibility of social ostracization. And that, that's what happens to a lot of people and they're scared of that. So to defend against that possibly happening to them, they attack things like without any logic at all. They just like say, you, you don't think, you don't know. I'm done talking to you. Like this is, and that, it's like a get out of jail free pass and you can just

• 32:53Joe Rogan?

  get away from the conversation and you don't have to confront the, the logical fallacies. You don't have to confront, confront all the problems with what you're saying.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  And the only solution I've been able to find is to just push through.

• 33:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  And I try, I say to them, Like Chris, like one day, I genuinely believe you'll look back and understand like one day. And I believe that.

• 33:17Joe Rogan?

  No, I believe that too. If it's done logically and you can have reasonable discussions. But even in the opposition to that, right? You have people on the right who adhere to a right wing cult-like thinking, right? And you know, they'll push back against it in, in a way that's also not logical. And so they dig their heels in on their ideology and the left digs their heels and, and you know, you, you have things like, people say, people on the left don't get it. People on the left this, like, no, this is, this is a giant spectrum of people on the left and a giant spectrum of people on the right. I don't like any of those labels.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  And I really don't like it because of me. Like, I don't fit in there.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. I've been.

• 34:04Joe Rogan?

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• 34:46Joe Rogan?

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• 35:20Speaker 01

  If people want to box you in on that, and this goes back to seeing stories. Which story do you fit into? Like, my mom has a story of what a Democrat is. She can never think in a story of what a Republican is. And she'll never deviate from that.

• 35:34Joe Rogan?

  My parents are the same.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:35Joe Rogan?

  Exactly the same.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  I would rather be homeless.

• 35:37Joe Rogan?

  They're blue no matter who.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  They're just locked in. Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, you know, the, it's, I'm just, I don't, I dread the, I don't dread the question of, are you a Republican or Democrat? It's like, who cares? It doesn't, I'm not a part of any, I'm just gonna be, I'm gonna call it as I see it. Follow the logic.

• 35:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it doesn't make sense to be on a team.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't make sense at all. Even for someone like me, like, you know, who, yeah, I went to the inauguration, you know, I was, I-

• 36:09Speaker 01

  How was that?

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  Bizarre. But I don't consider myself a Republican. I don't consider myself a Democrat either. I consider myself an American. I just, I'm a human being.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:20Joe Rogan?

  And there's a lot of things that the Democrats believe that I believe too.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:24Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of things that they say that I say, that makes a lot of sense to me. And there's a lot of things that the Republicans say, they're like, that makes a lot of sense to me too. And the idea that I have to ignore things that make sense to me because it's coming from the wrong team is just stupid. And the idea, they're like, these are bad faith arguments. We have to have a conversation with someone and pretend that what they're saying is not logical because they're supposed to be your opponent.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:46Joe Rogan?

  That, to me, is just dumb. It doesn't make any, that doesn't benefit me at all. It doesn't benefit anybody listening at all. It's just stupid. It's a stupid way to think. It's, it's so limiting and it's so bad for you cognitively. Cause I think when you put up those blinders, like, you ever talk to a person that's a liar? Especially like when you're younger, you, you, you meet people that are liars and they lie all the time about all kinds of things. One of the things about liars is they can't really recognize how other people see their lies because they're living a lie. Like, they're lying so often, they don't realize the language of truth and honesty. And so, when they're talking to people, they don't even realize that people know they're full of shit.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:27Joe Rogan?

  Because they're, they've lost their ability to sort of discern what natural conversations-

• 37:34Joe Rogan?

  Or about where it's really, it's not about you bullshitting me to try to get me to believe something that's not true. It's about you just expressing yourself. So they stopped doing that. They stopped just genuinely expressing themselves. And then they just live with these blinders on. And so everything exists and the only way they can find someone who will buy into their bullshit. Is if someone is like so bad at thinking and reasoning. That they don't have the tools to discern when someone's full of shit. And this happens with ideologies. This happens with with religion and it clearly happens with politics.

• 38:15Joe Rogan?

  It's like you get locked into these blinders and you're incapable of looking at any sort of positive aspects. Of someone who is on a team that you believe is the opposition.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there is a power in truth that can be felt like you're saying, and that's the underneath the boats. Beneath the surface that which we can't articulate, we can't explain how we know these, how we can sense that. On someone when they're bullshitting. But you can feel it. So as a teacher, you really learn that reality. If you're going to be effective, the first thing I would say on the first day to my students is. By law, by ethical bounds, there are going to be some things I can't tell you. Confidentiality, whatever, but I will never, I promise I will never tell you something I know to be untrue. And they try and embody that through all behavior and that I saw that resonate because there, but there's a lot of.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Teachers that, you know, but it's a strange environment, that school, a lot of weird stuff.

• 39:18Joe Rogan?

  Of course, well, it's a art school.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Well, that wasn't an art, no, I'm talking about the ones where like the kids get kicked out of high school.

• 39:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Go there. So there's like gangs, drugs, you know.

• 39:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just interesting.

• 39:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, I think we're entering a unique moment in history where a lot of those narratives are just dissolving. And a lot of that very tribal thinking is being critically analyzed and it's found to be lacking. And people are abandoning it, left and right. And you're, you're seeing it, you're seeing sort of the consequences of a lot of this ideology affecting people's day to day lives and that's causing people to abandon it. You know, I was watching these, this left wing podcasts where they were discussing being gaslit about the problems with violence and crime rising in New York City.

• 40:20Joe Rogan?

  And that, you know, you're being told that it's not, but if you live day to day life, you're like, no, this is real. Like you guys have let in a bunch of Venezuelan gang members and you have a sanctuary city and now it's kind of chaotic. And you're seeing, like the woman who got lit on fire on the subway and like that kind of shit. You're seeing this with, with ever increasing frequency. You're also seeing the way they lie about crime statistics because they'll tell you that crime is down, but what they don't tell you is crime is severely under reported and that people are being released for even violent crimes very quickly, which has direct consequences because then there's no incentive whatsoever to not commit crime if you're going to be right back out on the street.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Are you familiar with Roland Frye?

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Have you, have you had him on?

• 41:04Joe Rogan?

  I have not, but I would.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  He's, it's really interesting. He's changed the way I view statistics. And, but in like a three minute synopsis of it that goes to crime statistics, he, I can't think mathematically and I think this applies to logic. I think visually, so if I have a metaphor, I can suddenly understand a mathematical concept. Just don't have that mind. So he broke it down like, all right, after all that research that caused him to go into hiding. He's like, if you look at it through an economics perspective, let's say my job is to-

• 41:39Joe Rogan?

  Explain, let's get to, explain why he wanted, like, he went into hiding-

• 41:43Speaker 01

  He conducted a study, a deep dive into police statistics to see racial bias in policing.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  The findings did not match the story that people wanted to be true at Harvard, which caused him to literally go under police protection, like a one-year-old he had at the time, for days. Now, I don't know the deep dive beyond that, but that's the-

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:10Joe Rogan?

  And we should say he's a black gentleman.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Right, yes.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  So, he says the colleagues told him, "Don't publish this, warning, you'll ruin your career."

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:20Joe Rogan?

  For releasing findings that contradict popular left-wing narratives on policing.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  And he said, "I'm gonna do it anyways."

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  And then he came to the University of Austin and taught a class. It's on YouTube. And watching that class, to summarize it in a minute, look at it through economics, if my job is to approve or disprove loans,

• 42:45Speaker 01

  I've been able to get that down the best I can. I want to keep the default rate as low as possible, and I've achieved like a .5 default rate. And if anyone who comes in my office, .5 after I've done my job defaults. Alright, that's pretty good. Someone could come along later and analyze all that and say, "Wait a minute, you're turning down 60% black people, though, versus white people." His point is, you can't look at it through that lens. You have to look at it through, what is the goal that's trying, what is the result we're trying to achieve? So in policing, it's to, he can, his study showed that 40% of stops approximately, I think, if we use that as the example, 40% of stops recover contraband, which is pretty crazy, pretty good.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Across demographics, which means it's being done correctly. And people, this changes how you view so much. It's kind of difficult to understand at first glance. I'm trying to, tell me if this makes sense.

• 43:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  So it's 40% across, whatever color the driver is. That means we've done correct. We've done it right. If it was-

• 43:57Speaker 01

  If 60% white drivers were recovering contraband, we should be pulling over his arguments. We should be pulling over more white drivers. But that's assuming they're pulling people over upon race. Let's go back to the default, right? You're just coming in after the fact and analyzing the results and looking at it through a racial lens. I'm gonna, I'm gonna judge each case based on merit, regardless of, because I, are you gonna default or not? And whatever, I'm gonna run my analysis, whatever that is. So anyone can come in after the fact and say, but there's always gonna be a discrepancy. Okay, but you turned down more black people than whites. So they're, okay, so according to your logic, for every white driver, every black driver

• 44:39Speaker 01

  I pull over, every Latino, I have to pull over a white driver now, which affects policing itself. As opposed to what's our goal? All the police are meeting that morning. Our job is to go out and recover contraband in this neighborhood. But for every black driver, gotta pull over a white. It's like, that's not how it works, right? So that kind of, that boggled my mind when I first heard it. It was like, looking at it through the lens of what are we trying to achieve? And seeing if, if that achievement is even, then there's nothing like, there's nothing off about it. If it's, if the, the contraband being recovered is 40%, regardless of the rate of which you're

• 45:22Speaker 01

  pulling those cars over, the, the success rate is the same.

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Which is, means you're doing it, you're doing it right. It's, I'm trying to boil that down as simple as I can.

• 45:33Joe Rogan?

  And so that, that was problematic for a lot of people. They didn't want to hear that.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Because they're pulling over, let's just say 60% of the drivers are black, which is biased. The, the question is, is it unwarranted bias? Because there's always gonna be bias.

• 45:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, is it unwarranted bias, meaning are more black people causing them to get pulled over?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Like the default rate. Seventy percent of the people I turned down, let's say seventy percent of people that come in that office that were black got turned down. My rebuttal to that is that has nothing to do with it. My job is for the bank to get a point five default rate, and that's the end result.

• 46:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Can you prove that I'm doing anything wrong? There's not, what adjustment logically should I make?

• 46:27Joe Rogan?

  Right, should you give loans to people that are more likely to default just because of their ethnicity?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  That would be the only logical course of action in response to that.

• 46:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, which is the argument for equity, right, over equality.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Equal, yeah, essentially that would be a form of equity, equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity.

• 46:48Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, I've seen that argument, that like not everybody starts at the same spot. So you have to raise up people who've started at a different spot, which is to me a Band-Aid on the real problem. The real problem is that we have crime-infested areas that we've done nothing to fix. That's the real problem. The real problem is we have parts of our society that have been, you know, because of Jim Crow laws and red line laws, there's a long history of them being riddled with crime and gangs. And it could be fixed. There's been no effort. There's been no real national effort to take impoverished, gang-ridden, crime-ridden neighborhoods and rehabilitate them.

• 47:34Joe Rogan?

  The more you do that, if you did that, you would have less losers. If you have less losers, you have a better country. And that's including like. The Appalachians, like areas of West Virginia that are filled with people that are addicted to pills and committing crime because they're drug addicts that are all poor white people, coal mining people, those folks. It's everybody. It's just crime and poverty. And crime and poverty causes people. You imitate your environment, you imitate your atmosphere. If you grow up in a crime-ridden, gang-ridden neighborhood, the chances of you getting involved in gang activities and crime are much higher than if you don't grow up in an environment like that.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm from North Carolina. Ash- like, near Asheville.

• 48:15Joe Rogan?

  Asheville.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  It's rough out there, which people don't believe. Asheville, like, mountains, beautiful.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:22Joe Rogan?

  No, it's like, very high per capita crime rate.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  There's a meth capital.

• 48:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Right near where I live. And so, I agree with you. The thing is, if we look at it, I agree if we look at it through a socioeconomic lens. So I had a professor, one of my professors from Emerson, he's like, "I solved racism." This was in one of the videos.

• 48:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  I was like, "Sure, come over, let's record. Hit me with it." So, the solution is, we're gonna have a tax for, so if you're, if you can trace your ancestry, then you're gonna, you don't have to pay taxes or, well, some form of tax. Like, okay, but what about the white person in Appalachia who is in an equally bad socioeconomic position, but they don't get the tax or what, the award, your solution?

• 49:05Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Well, their ancestors weren't oppressed, so I would be all for it if it was looking through a consistent, applied across all demographics equally, socioeconomically.

• 49:18Joe Rogan?

  You're never gonna stop racism. You're never gonna stop ignorant thinking. I mean, unless there's some sort of a groundbreaking human neural interface that completely changes our cognitive function and dissolves all boundaries. You're not going to stop people from, there's people that don't like people from other cities because they play sports against them. You know, they, "I hate people from Philly." There's always going to be people that discriminate against other people. Because there's always gonna be ignorant people. So it's gonna be, and it's easier to do that. It's easier to decide this person's my enemy, these are, these people are on my side. It's easy to be tribal. It's like, it's much simpler.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:00Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to think as much.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Like Anna Kasparian got sexually assaulted by a homeless person. So when she's walking down the street, she's probably going to recoil a bit, maybe. And if she sees someone, you know, it's, there's a human psychological element. She's gonna try probably not to do the, but it's just human nature. If you have a bad experience, then it's gonna, it goes back to how we see the world. But you're right, yeah, we'll never be able to solve racism.

• 50:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the type of bias that like is kind of logical. Like if you see a guy and he's covered in his own shit and he's, you know, lighting notebooks on fire. That guy might be out of his fucking mind. You should probably go around him. And if you run into a bunch of them and they're camping out right in front of your house, you, you should,

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  You should act accordingly. You shouldn't treat them the same, the way you treat your neighbor who's just walking his dog waving to you. It's a different kind of human being you're encountering. You know, there's certain people that you should be wary about. And if you're severely mentally ill and addicted to drugs and you live in a tent in front of someone's house, you're cooking meth, you know, like you're in the backyard barbecue and you smell someone cooking meth in your front yard. Like, that's a problem.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a problem.

• 51:05Joe Rogan?

  That's a problem. And if you pretend it's not a problem because, you know, oh, you have to be sensitive to people's socioeconomic needs and it's a housing crisis and it's a this and it's a that, no, no. There's people that are really fucked up because being a person is hard. It's difficult, it's complicated. And if you grow up, you know, with abusive parents who are drug addicts themselves and in and out of jail and you've been like psychologically scarred since you were a baby because they beat you and you've encountered a lot of domestic violence, you're gonna be more fucked up than the average person. This is just the development cycle of you as an entity, as a human being that is. A product of your accumulated experiences, your genetics, your biology, your environment. There's just a lot of factors.

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  And if to pretend that those factors don't exist, and that if you do recognize them, that somehow or another you're racist, or you're sexist, or you're ableist, or you're this, or you're that, like you're the problem. No, the problem is, we've got a bunch of people that are really fucked up, you know? And we have to figure out a way to have less people that are fucked up. There's gonna have a certain percentage, but is there something that can be done that would mitigate the number of people that are growing up really fucked up and becoming problems? Start at the root. Get to the root. What's the root? Crime-infested, gang-infested neighborhoods, abusive family life, abusive neighborhoods? Like, that's the root. It's the root of all of our problems.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's why Jordan Peterson tapped into this so much, because it's the only solution is, you know, taking a personal responsibility.

• 52:37Joe Rogan?

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• 53:22Joe Rogan?

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• 53:36Joe Rogan?

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• 54:42Joe Rogan?

  But even personal responsibility for a person that has no, there's no examples of someone taking personal responsibility. Everyone around you is doing something fucked up, or most people around you are doing something fucked up. And there's nowhere you can turn, or you can relate to someone who can give you the tools and objective reasoning and an understanding of how you got to the situation and what are the steps you can take to get out of that?

• 55:08Speaker 01

  I encountered that every day at that school because that's where I was, those were the kids that I was working with. They didn't have, majority of them did not have a parent. We would have open house and no one would come. They had no example, no money.

• 55:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  And it's heartbreaking, but so what do I do? All I can do is try and lead by example and maybe communicate. Because that's their best hope is trying and taking responsibility. Because no one else is going to do it at the end of the day. There is no alternative.

• 55:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Except for having someone hopefully come along and provide that role model.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Right, or finding something that you can do that elevates you. Finding something you can do that gives you a very clear example that hard work and dedication can lead to success. And then you can kind of get addicted to this positive feeling that you're getting from seeing yourself progress and get locked into that. And it can elevate you out of certain situations. You see that happen with sports. You see that happen with art. You know, sports and art are probably the two best ways that people can escape impoverished childhoods and bad neighborhoods.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  The student who was, we're not supposed to have favorites, but was my favorite. He, he came from that kind of background, but he could draw like I've never seen.

• 56:31Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, there you go, art.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  And so we got him a crita drawing tablet, a digital drawing tablet. And he would just sit and draw all day. But here's the, the issue is, well, how do you, but he wouldn't go to any other classes. And we kind of, he liked, for some reason, he liked being in my classroom. So they would literally sit him in my room and he would stay there all day. And then he would try and bring work from his other classes and get him to do the work from the other classes. And, but, so through that pattern, he and I, you know, we would talk about, he got me into Elden Ring, telling me like these video, like, and he was, he got me into the whole art style behind Elden Ring and Dark Souls.

• 57:07Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  But what, how do you foster, then the school kind of comes along and they're like, yeah, but he's not doing academic drawings that are not relevant to the school. And I, I get that, but how do you then take that talent for drawing and show him that this can be monetized, man?

• 57:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Like, let's get you maybe freelancing. I worked as a freelance videographer. It's a, it's a hustle, but it's a wage or I can make, but it's better than nothing. Trying to think outside the box. He ended up getting kicked out for stupid. He didn't want to go on a field trip one day and he was like, he made a offhand passing comment. He's like, I don't want to go on the field trip. Don't make me go on the field trip or trip. I'm, I'll just bring a gun so I don't have to go to the field trip. And it's like, oh my God, like.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  And then, and this goes back to the idea of telling the truth. What got me is they lied to him and told him because the teacher that he said it to. You're compelled to like, report it and everything and we run it up the chain. I don't think he should have been kicked out. I know this kid though. He's done. That's why they're there. Because they stay, they say stupid stuff.

• 58:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  And we're the last line of defense. He was graduating in two months.

• 58:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I don't know where he is now.

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, it brings you back to like, what is school supposed to be for? It's supposed to be preparing you for independence out in the world. And it's supposed to be preparing you to eventually have a career. Well, there's real careers in art. It's a viable pathway.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:42Joe Rogan?

  And the idea that this guy is extremely talented and that's not accentuated.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  He would, he would draw these Japanese Samurai sword fighting, just beautiful. And then I had the photo printer. We would. And, but they were like, well, how's he gonna make a living drawing Japanese photos? No, it's like, get him to draw school project, like logos for multimedia projects for the culinary program. It does like, this kid won't respond to that. And he didn't. And then he gets kicked out.

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  That was my problem as an artist. When, when I was young, I wanted to be a comic book illustrator. That's what I wanted to do. And all I could, that's the only art that I was interested in. I read a lot of comic books and I was like, really into like Frank Frazetta. And I was really into like Jack Kirby and all these different artists that would draw for comic books and fantasy novels and that kind of stuff. That's what I was interested in. That was the only thing I was interested in. And my art teacher was an asshole. He was just, he was such an asshole. Shout out to my friend, John DeVore, because I'm still, I communicate online with a buddy of mine in high school, who was also in that art class, who was the most talented guy in the class. It was me, John, and our friend Kevin.

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  And we were like the three most talented people. I was like third. It's like John was number one, Kevin was number two, and then there's me. But we were all like much more talented than everyone else. And all we wanted to do was like comic book art. And John was so good. And he told me that that teacher gave him an F in his final year. And uh, cause he's just an asshole. He just, his, he, when, he would never look at your art and say, it was good. He would look at your art and say, you're not gonna be able to do that for a living. You're gonna have to draw diaper commercials. You're gonna have to do this. You're gonna have to do things you don't wanna do. It was just, he was a bitter guy with like a pot belly who looked depressed and he was.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  A lot of teachers are.

• 1:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And they, he didn't want you to have hope because he didn't have any hope. And he didn't like teaching. He wanted to be an artist and, you know, and when he would draw, you know, like he would draw in the class where we would do projects. And his stuff was unexceptional. Just wasn't that good, you know? And it just, they wanted you to fail.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  I had a student, I may have had multiple students, the number one like profession kids wanna do now is be an influencer, YouTuber, blah, blah, blah. So I get the apprehension when a kid's like, I really wanna do YouTube, make a YouTube channel. I wanna do like what Joe Rogan's doing, whatever. But the school was kind of, you can't make money on YouTube.

• 1:01:21Joe Rogan?

  That's so dumb. That's like, you should be fired for being incompetent. Not just incompetent, but you're counter to what's true. Like you're saying things that are objectively untrue. You can't make money on YouTube. That is, you could pull up statistics instantaneously.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  It's hard, but you're never gonna, I got lucky, man. Just because I was willing to put myself out there, make a fool of myself.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

  But that's not why you got lucky. You got lucky because you put out good content. It's a merit based thing. It really is. Like what the, and it doesn't necessarily have to be good, right? There's content that's just, it's, you know, inflammatory and that people.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  People gravitate to that because they like controversy. People like, just people squabbling and yelling at each other, like shitty content. Or someone who's saying like awful things. So people, can you believe this person's saying these awful things? And they get a lot of attention for saying awful things.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Joe Rogan?

  And so, you know. And then YouTube has ways to sort of manage that, which are, you know, a little Orwellian, right? Like they demonetize people for talking about specific things and.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  That scares me.

• 1:02:27Joe Rogan?

  It should scare you. Cause a lot of times they're demonetizing things that are absolutely accurate. And that's where it gets really weird. Like this is what we faced during the COVID crisis. Like if you said that you think this disease came from a lab leak, you would get demonetized on YouTube. Well, that's proven to be true now. So like what happens? Does YouTube owe you money? From all those videos that you put out that they should have monetized? Like what?

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  I can't even think about it.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy. You're saying accurate things, but these accurate things were being suppressed by our own federal government. Which is really weird. We're in cahoots with these corporations that were making these medications. And so it got real fucking weird, like real weird. And unfortunately, a lot of those laws still stand. We had an instance where there was a video that we put out during the pandemic. Um, when we were only on Spotify. So when we were only on Spotify, all of our videos, all our episodes got released only on Spotify. But we banked them all to eventually, you know, just like we'd have them if we ever wanted to put them up on YouTube.

• 1:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, then 2024, uh, I signed this new deal. And in the new deal, what I want to do is put it everywhere. I was like, we'll be Spotify, but let's put it on, and Spotify wanted to do this as well. It was actually, they were, they were very supportive of this. Put it everywhere. Well, put it on YouTube, put it on Apple, put it on, but it's a Spotify exclusive and we work out this deal that way. And just like, well, so when we take these videos that were available on Spotify, to, in order to put them on YouTube, even though they're factually correct, they have a strike against them. Because it's still adhering to their old laws that were applicable at the time that we made the video.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  So what did they, did they make adjustments?

• 1:04:19Joe Rogan?

  What did we wind up doing with that? Jamie?

• 1:04:23Speaker 04

  I don't know what case you're talking about.

• 1:04:25Joe Rogan?

  You know, what you were saying that like there was a video that we're gonna put up, but it had a strike and you you were gonna have to do like training, remember that?

• 1:04:32Speaker 04

  That was already up there, though. That was that.

• 1:04:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:04:34Speaker 04

  That wasn't re-uploaded. That was from the past. That was like a clip we put up. Yeah. We were still putting clips up on that channel.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was a clip? That was the problem?

• 1:04:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

• 1:04:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it was the full episode, wasn't it?

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:04:44Joe Rogan?

  And then when we uploaded the full episode, then it it applied to that, right?

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  It just still had, I, we, there was no way around not doing the education fucking thing, whatever it was called.

• 1:04:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. But here's the problem. No way around it.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Did you have to do that?

• 1:04:58Speaker 04

  No, I'm not doing shit.

• 1:05:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but here's the problem. That clip was accurate. The problem is the things that they were saying were accurate.

• 1:05:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, something changed in the news and they're like, that's actually accurate now, but the system had, there was, there was no way to change it in the system.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was always accurate. It's just the news started reporting it accurately. And because in initially, the the government narrative was that it was incorrect. So we're in the situation where you're getting educated about something that's absolutely true. And you have to sort of pretend that you did a bad thing.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  It's scary for me because this is literally how I make a living now. I put food on the table.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Do you do other platforms as well as YouTube?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  I'm I'm on X, but I'm not monetized. I've never made a dollar on X. I'm not sure how to go about doing that. I could look it up. I should probably, but.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know how that works either.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  I hear rumors about, don't post one to one to X because like YouTube wants exclusivity and if you're posting on X, your videos will perform less. I don't know how much truth there is, but I'm so kind of.

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  There's probably something to that.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  And I'm so dependent on YouTube that I'm like, I'm not even gonna do it.

• 1:06:06Joe Rogan?

  Here's an interesting statistic about YouTube. Um, this shows you, like, this is probably one of the best examples of bias that you're ever gonna see. During the time where I released the podcast with Trump, it was getting, what was the most it was getting an hour? Was it 1.2 million?

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  Sure, I think so. Maybe 1, 2, 1, 3, something like that.

• 1:06:30Joe Rogan?

  As much as 1.5 million, I think, at one point in time. An hour. Never trending.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  I heard about that.

• 1:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Never trending.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 1:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Never trending. What's trending then? Tell me what trending is. If something gets fifty million views in a couple of days and that's not trending? What's trending?

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  What do you call trending? What does that mean then? Is, are you curating your trending thing? Why would you do that?

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  Did Kamala Harris on Call Her Daddy trend?

• 1:06:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. That's a good question. Well, it didn't get any views.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  No, it didn't get much.

• 1:07:00Joe Rogan?

  I mean, what did Kamala Harris on Call Her Daddy get?

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Like, less than a million, I think.

• 1:07:05Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  I get a million for some random...

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Should've gotten a million.

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Joe Rogan?

  But that doesn't make any sense.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Maybe I'm thinking, I might be wrong about that.

• 1:07:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it wasn't extraordinary. It wasn't interesting enough. That's, you know, it's merit-based, essentially.

• 1:07:20Speaker 04

  Curious what it would say. How the trending page is controlled?

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  I looked up on the screen, it says there's no humans that manually curate the page.

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, but obviously the algorithm...

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  I don't think, I don't believe this is what...

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't believe that.

• 1:07:34Speaker 04

  I'm pretty cynical about this response.

• 1:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, okay. YouTube's trending page is controlled by an algorithm that's trained by human engineers. There's no employees who manually curate the trending page. How the algorithm works. The algorithm considers many factors to determine which videos are trending, including view count, view velocity, and video age. The algorithm considers where views are coming from and how the video performs compared to other recent uploads from the same channel. The algorithm aims to create a list of trending content that's relevant and representative across the platform. The algorithm refreshes every fifteen minutes to stay current. Filters. The algorithm applies strict content filters to keep the trending list family-friendly. These filters ensure that videos don't contain excessive profanity...

• 1:08:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, that cuts me out. Mature content, violence, or disparaging others in the community. Okay, so just that line alone. Disparaging others in the community. Yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  It would be in YouTube's best interests, though. They need, they need you, so...

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, don't they like views?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's my point.

• 1:08:38Joe Rogan?

  Don't you, don't you sell ads?

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  If I was YouTube, I'd be like, no, we want Joe Rogan's thing up here, we need views.

• 1:08:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, not only that, if you put it in trending, you'll get more views, so you get more advertising revenue.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  On that specific one, I think they were worried about something else.

• 1:08:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, they were worried about it promoting Donald Trump and winding up being president because of that. But then it got to a point where you couldn't find it. So that was real weird. Like, if you Googled Trump Rogan podcast, you would not find that podcast at all. You would find clips of people discussing it. You would not find the actual podcast.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  When I first saw it, it was someone reacting to it.

• 1:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Live.

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Bizarre.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Didn't you tweet, like, we had to release it at the same time on multiple platforms, sorry for the glitch, wasn't there?

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  There was a glitch because the way we upload generally, Jamie, you can speak to this. We upload with a timer, right? Like, it's gonna upload at a certain time.

• 1:09:38Speaker 04

  It was usually like at noon, and this time we were doing it at night. And, you know, they just didn't, for whatever reason, it didn't go live, the platforms don't work the same.

• 1:09:46Joe Rogan?

  We just released it. We just said, like, let's just release it now. But it took a while to get up and to, it was just, that was just like an issue with just how the upload system works. It's like it's more effective to upload on a timer, apparently. But that had nothing to do with YouTube. That was just a thing about, and then when it was being suppressed, and I knew it was being suppressed, I talked to Spotify and talked to Elon and said, let's just put it on X. And so we put it on X as well. And then Elon put it on X. And it wound up getting across all platforms, somewhere in the neighborhood of like 250 million views. Fucking insanity. But a lot of it was X.

• 1:10:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, a lot of people on independent pages, they just took it when it was a problem finding it, and they just uploaded it to their own channel on X. A lot of people did that. And then, you know, I uploaded it, Elon's alone got like 65 million views, and I got like 25 million views. It was just nuts. It was like people wanted, and it's the Streisand effect. As soon as you try to suppress something. I just, I don't buy into the idea that there was some sort of manipulation behind the scenes. It just doesn't make any sense. Whether it was rogue employees, or whether it was someone who is gaming the reporting system, like, reporting something, like, maybe that could be it.

• 1:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you get enough people that report that a video is a problem, maybe that could throw it off. I don't know. You know, I don't even, I don't wanna ask, cuz I don't think I'm gonna get an honest answer.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  You haven't asked?

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  I kinda have, but I don't talk to them. You know, I don't, I don't have like a direct channel where I talk to them. I don't want one.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:11:31Joe Rogan?

  I was just like, eh.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Let me just put it, you know, like, this is, like, if there's a situation like that, I'll talk about that. And that's my way of responding to that, like, make sense, make it make sense to me. Like, why, why can't you find it? Why can't you find a video that has sixty-five million views? Why can't you find that? That doesn't make any sense.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  That is crazy.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts, like, what's wrong with your search system? And then eventually, because of me talking about it, it went back, and then, then you could find it.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  It's, it's one of the best things. A lot of people are really grateful that you did that, so.

• 1:12:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, you know, I wanted to, like, we were clearly being manipulated. We were clearly being gaslit and being told that this guy's Hitler. Even though he was already the president for four years. And he wasn't, he didn't act like a dictator. Like, we know what it's like when he's running things. We had experienced it for four years. And they were telling us that this was the end of civilization, that trans people are gonna be rounded up and fucking nets thrown on them, and... It, it was really wild, the people weren't going to be safe, it was really wild, it was really wild. And they, yeah, they just demonized, and, and they gaslit people to the point where,

• 1:12:51Joe Rogan?

  when you actually do have the guy in and talk to him and say like, no, he's not mentally compromised, he's not incoherent, he's very coherent. He's got an amazing amount of energy. The guy sat here for three hours, and we could've done another three hours, easy. He can go on and on and on, and he's fine. And he had some really good points. First of all, the, the point about the California wildfires, where he's discussing their, their water issues, that it could all be fixed. And then he gave them a plan to fix it, and then they, they rejected it, and he was like, you could have all the fucking water you need. And you should be doing things to make sure that these fires don't happen again. There's ways to clean up the brush, there's ways to do this, there's ways to do that, you stop the fuel. You, you know, you develop, uh, better systems for water distribution, sprinkler systems, like,

• 1:13:37Joe Rogan?

  there's ways to do this, and he talked about those ways on the podcast, and it's like, you know... eerily accurate when you see what happened to the Pacific Palisades. This episode is brought to you by NOCO, your miles from home, you turn the key, nothing, dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a NOCO portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. NOCO, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10%

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:04Joe Rogan?

  and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Yeah, well, that clip of you predicting the whole thing.

• 1:15:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That was a, see, here's the thing, this climate change narrative, this is a really goofy thing that people on the left are talking about. Because of climate change. This is climate change causes fire. LA has had essentially the same weather pattern since the eighteen hundreds. Since they started noticing them. There's a great video, here, I'll send it to you, Jamie. There's a great video of the, uh, Topanga fires. See, you might be able to find it before I can pull it up. The Topanga fires from nineteen sixty-one, I believe. There was a huge fire that raged through the Hollywood Hills, pre-climate change. Nineteen sixty-one. LA has always been dry as fuck. It's a desert.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Movie industry was developed.

• 1:16:24Joe Rogan?

  That's why the movie industry's there. Because you could film outside and you don't ever have to worry about it raining on you. That's literally why they came there, because it's the perfect climate. It's amazing. I was just there last weekend. The weather's incredible. But the city, because of their ridiculous policies, is just a fucking disaster. A dangerous, creepy, weird disaster of a city.

• 1:16:44Speaker 04

  Nineteen sixty-one Bel Air fire. Which is probably the same time period.

• 1:16:48Joe Rogan?

  Could be, could be.

• 1:16:49Speaker 04

  Sounds the same. Brush fire, wind.

• 1:16:52Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's just what happens, man. So, the, the situation that I encountered was, uh, from two thousand... I was filming Fear Factor, so it had to be before two thousand and seven. So, it was really before a lot of this. I mean, you know, you had the Inconvenient Truth documentary, but you didn't have the type of, uh, climate change discussions that you're, you have today.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  So, you think it was more...

• 1:17:18Joe Rogan?

  It's just LA.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  LA, okay.

• 1:17:20Joe Rogan?

  It's just LA. It, it's not a climate change issue. God, I gotta find this video.

• 1:17:24Speaker 04

  Fifteen thousand acres burned, four hundred and fifty homes burned. Here's the aftermath. Houses, they're digging through it.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that is a black and white one. The one that I had was, was color footage.

• 1:17:36Joe Rogan?

  Um, I know I have it. If you just give me a second, I will find it.

• 1:17:40Speaker 04

  This documentary is called Design for Disaster. That's popping up. This also says Bel Air.

• 1:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Here, I'm just going through my... Whitney Cummings sent it to me, so I'm going through my videos with her. And I'll, I'll find it in a second. But the point is, it's like...

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  When I experienced that, this was not when everybody was, uh, chiming in about climate change being the... Here it is. I found it. Nineteen sixties. It was in the canyon. Here it is. I'll send it to you, Jamie.

• 1:18:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it's one of those guys talking like this, because that's how they talked in the news back then. So it's a 1961 documentary about the fires. And so, um, when I was talking to this fireman, I think it was 2003. If I beli- if I'm correct, I think it was 2003. And we were experiencing a fire and he told me, I, because where I lived, I had been evacuated three times. I've been evacuated in the early 2000s, so this is, give me some volume on this, so you can hear the way this guy talks.

• 1:18:49Speaker 05

  ...ground cover in the western hemisphere. The fire starting from its point of origin north of Mulholland on Stone Canyon. Spreads out along canyon walls in three directions. Flames begin spreading at the rate of 13 acres per minute.

• 1:19:03Speaker 06

  We've got a report of four people trapped on foot between Shalana and Oscar Mayer. We need help from the police department and an ambulance at 2025 Stradale Road.

• 1:19:13Speaker 05

  How can a modern water system properly designed to meet emergency fire conditions fail to function? 484 times, fire proved its deadly efficiency by incinerating in a few roaring minutes what families had taken years to acquire. Of 134...

• 1:19:29Joe Rogan?

  So that has always been a problem.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  So they had the same issue back then?

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  The 100% same issue. So this idea that these left-wing people, particularly media people, they want to use this binary thing, you know? This is what I saw. Oh, Trump said, "Drill, baby, drill," right after we're dealing with this climate change-fueled emergency in the Pacific Palisades and climate ch- that is not, it's not climate change. It is the climate of Los Angeles. It's a fucking desert. They put a city in the fucking desert because they wanted to film movies there. And it's also windy in the winter because you get the Santa Ana winds, which is what just occurred, where you get these 100-mile, they're historic. They've always happened. Every year we get the Santa Ana, there's fire season for a fucking reason.

• 1:20:16Joe Rogan?

  There's, Los Angeles has "fire season." Where I used to live, it was fire season. And every time the winter would come and everything was dry and all of the vegetation was brown and the wind was whipping around, everybody would get nervous. Because you get... You know, there's a bunch of different reasons. The, the one big one from 2018, they found out that it was like some part that had failed that initially caused the fire, that was a $1 part. The part cost $1. This one, $1 piece that they failed to replace caused the sparks that led to the initial fire. That was the 2018 fire, where you saw, if you go down the 405 in Hollywood, like half

• 1:21:00Joe Rogan?

  of the side of the highway was completely engulfed in flames. It looked apocalyptic. It was bananas. Driving down the highway and the whole left side of the highway is completely on fire. Giant hills of raging fires that they couldn't put out. It's always been like this. It's Los Angeles. It's Los Angeles.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Why didn't they adapt? Like, I lived in LA for two years. I'm on the volunteer fire department in my town where I live now, in Massachusetts, and we don't have fire hydrants.

• 1:21:32Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  We're out by Concord, like, near there.

• 1:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know where that is.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  So, there's no fire hydrants. And so, we bring our own water.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  But it's possible, is my point.

• 1:21:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's possible. And the problem with this past fire, and there's, here's another thing, it's a lot of weird pushback against, that it was arson caused. Hey, some of it was arson caused. Fact. They've arrested people. They arrested people for starting fires. They've arrested multiple people for starting fires. My friend, Andrew Huberman, filmed people starting fires. They were starting fires in the middle of this fire disaster. Because, it doesn't mean it's the cause of it. It means, along the way, there was a lot of arson. Like, some people were saying that, you know, "Oh, there's this false narrative that it was the homeless people." Like, okay, whether they had a house, or whether they didn't have a house, some people started fucking fires.

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  There's video footage of the three fires that are started semi-simultaneously, that are near the Palisades. And on one of the video footage, it's very clear that there's a human being, this is like, from the sky where they're filming this, there's a human being that's near the fire. Most likely, the cause of the fire was a person who either accidentally did this, or did it on purpose, lit a fire. So, the problem is not fucking climate change. The problem is, LA is extremely vulnerable when it comes to fires, and always has been, and they've done very little to mitigate this yearly disaster problem that they have.

• 1:23:12Joe Rogan?

  That's the facts.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:13Joe Rogan?

  That's the reality of it. That's indisputable.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  Do you think Gavin Newsom's gonna, is this gonna be the end of him, or are people gonna put up with it?

• 1:23:22Joe Rogan?

  I would like to think that people would wise up. I mean, there's been a trend in California to vote in the opposite direction. If you look at the map of 2020 versus the map of 2024, the counties that went red, like a significant number. But the high population centers are in the trance. The San Francisco, Los Angeles, very difficult to get those people to vote anything other than blue. And so if the people that are Democrat are giving them the exact same solutions, the exact same gaslighting, and they keep buying it over and over again, and they still win elections, then there's no incentive for them to correct course. So, this is why. California's been essentially blue since, except for the time where Arnold won, which is weird, right?

• 1:24:06Joe Rogan?

  Because he was kind of like a moderate Republican and also famous, and that probably led to him winning. But other than that, since Reagan, um, he, what did he? He did something where he allowed people that came here, where, what is, what was the issue that Reagan did? There was some sort of a voting issue. Where he allowed people from, I think it was people that immigrated here illegally from Mexico, there's coffee and water, whatever you like. There's water in that glass right there. But California is basically locked blue. And the only thing that's going to change it is things like these Pacific Palisades fires, where people realize we have incompetent government.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  And if we have competent government that is right wing, and as long as they don't infringe on civil rights and human rights and all the things that we're terrified of from right-wing extremists, as long as they don't do that, you'd probably be better off leaning in that direction. If someone's going to take a pragmatic solution, a pragmatic view of what these problems are, and make meaningful change. Like, you've got to, you've got to figure out what, what is, first of all, with the fires, it's like, this all could be prevented. What's causing the fire? Well, all this brush, they had record rainfall. Record rainfall means record growth. So you have record growth of all these grasses and brush and all this stuff.

• 1:25:31Joe Rogan?

  So it's all green and lush until LA runs out of water, because it stops raining for a long time, and then everything turns brown, and then it's a tender. It's just fire tender. It's just, it's a tinderbox.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  When the fire chief says, if we'd had a thousand more trucks, it wouldn't have, quote, "tamped" this down.

• 1:25:51Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  But then we see an old man with a garden hose able to save his house. It's like, well, an individual was able to make a difference.

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  So then logically, a difference could be made.

• 1:26:03Joe Rogan?

  There was one guy who put lawn sprinklers on his roof.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Milk, orange juice.

• 1:26:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I saw one guy, and it's, so it's difficult to have those two narratives. They contradict each other.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  They do. But, I mean, the firefighters are saying, once the fire is raging, even if they had 100 trucks, you're dealing with 100 mile an hour winds, and you've got this enormous, like, who, if someone did start these fires, if they were started by arson, the way they did it was very strategic, because they essentially did it upwind. They did it, like, right where the wind was going to blow the fire into the city. Like, if you started that fire at the outskirts of the city, it would have just burned to an area that's not populated. They started it right where all the brush was, right where all the woods were, where the wind was at its back. And then they started it in multiple areas so that it would come and spread out in a in this way that was like impossible to stop.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  So, once it gets big, like to this day, like what is the fire? Yesterday, I read that it was sixty, I think it was sixty-five percent contained. This is like, we're in weeks, right? Weeks into this. At one point in time, it was zero percent contained. It was just burning through. And if you haven't seen, um, there's a great video, I'll send you this, Jamie, of uh, an overhead view of what it looks like now, and it's sixty-eight percent contained today. Um, I'm gonna send you this, Jamie, cuz it's a helicopter that is flying over the Palisades. And you get to see like the extent of the devastation. And in, until you see it like with your own eyes from the air,

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  it's hard to understand how big the destruction is. How enormous the amount of land that was destroyed, the amount of homes that were destroyed. And not just destroyed, here is, like you could see this here.

• 1:27:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, this is crazy. This is absolutely crazy.

• 1:28:07Joe Rogan?

  And the video is larger, Jamie, if you could like shrink it a little. So that that way you can see the top. So there's, there's words at the top that block off some of it, but it goes on like way above that. See that? Like this is an enormous piece of land, covered with homes that's gone.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  All that's gone?

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Not just gone, but now poisoned. So now, not only are these homes burnt, but everything that was in the homes, all the plastics, all the chemicals, all the batteries, Teslas, all these different electric cars, all that, the electronics, all the the toxic chemicals that come from the building materials. All that is now seeped into the ground and will eventually seep into the water. It's gonna get into the water supply. It's probably gonna get into the ocean. It's gonna wash into the ocean.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think people realize how toxic that stuff is.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, it's in the air. So, you know, they can say the weather quality or the air quality is good in California based on how much smog there is, but what's in the fucking smog now? Because this is not just automobile smog. This is not just just dry dirt kicked up by the wind, which they've always had. Like, they, the, the smog in Los Angeles existed before there were cars. Cause there was always this problem with the way the valley is shaped. The valley just contains all this air in there and you would get dust pollution, even back before there were fucking cars. Or if there was anybody that was burning coal

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  or you had fireplaces or that kind of shit. You're getting all that smoke that was always contained in that area. It's just a bad place for air. And so then on top of that, you've got all these homes that were burnt and all this toxic waste, all this burning plastic and burning chemicals. Now that's all in the air and no one's discussing that. Like, it has to be bad for you if you live near that. All those firemen that are breathing that shit in, that's gonna have long-term health consequences for those guys.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  For all those people that are dealing with all that shit, all those people that are anywhere near it, your air is air of like, do you know the story of the toxic burn pits from Iraq?

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:30:31Joe Rogan?

  In Afghanistan? So, during the war, when troops were, uh, on a base overseas, they would take all their garbage and burn it. So they burned it in these waste pits. And so the wind would shift and blow through the camp and all these people are breathing toxic air, extremely toxic. In fact, Biden's son died from a brain cancer that they connect to his exposure in the military to the toxic burn pits. It's a, there's a, a, a whole swarm of health consequences that veterans have faced because of these toxic burn pits. So

• 1:31:15Joe Rogan?

  the dumbest fucking way to deal with garbage of all time, make the troops breathe it in as you burn it.

• 1:31:23Joe Rogan?

  The same kind of thing that's happening in LA. It's the same shit. You're breathing burnt garbage, burnt refuge, burnt buildings, burnt cars, burnt tires. All that stuff you're breathing in.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  I didn't realize how often, you don't think about firefighters, but they're exposed to that.

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  All the time.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  The guys on the, it's all volunteer, but the guys that, you know, in their 50s, 60s and just like hacking all the time.

• 1:31:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  And it's, it's like a sacrifice they make knowingly.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  It's crazy. It's, the gear is never, it, cause you can't just wash fire gear.

• 1:31:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  You gotta have it specially washed and so there's like the, the kitchen and the firehouse, right? And you can't bring the, no gear allowed in the kitchen, cause it's, but you know, you put it on, go home. You're supposed to shower every time, but that doesn't happen. So it's just crazy.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  Also, they're fucking exhausted. Like, you know, you don't even wanna shower. You just wanna close your fucking eyes. You've been working 28 hours. You get a couple hours to sleep before you get back out there again. It's fucking insane. And still, 68% contained today. What's today's date? The 23rd, 22nd?

• 1:32:31Speaker 04

  Some people talk about the, what was the big camp, the campfire from a few years ago? The, that containment number starts getting used as a big political tool and like it'll never end up being like a hundred percent. It just kinda keep pushing the number around to talk about stuff and just, it'll never, just eventually just goes away.

• 1:32:45Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 1:32:47Speaker 04

  The, like the big number for the biggest fire, like they've contained a hundred percent of a small fire. Like the biggest fire, it'll just, it'll always stay at a number that's below a hundred percent.

• 1:32:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, if it's still up.

• 1:32:57Speaker 04

  Nah, just, it's like a political tool they're saying. Like the residents there just got sick of it. They just, they're like, this is now a political thing going back and forth. Like, tell us what it is.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:33:05Speaker 04

  Where is the fire if it's not contained, kinda thing? Like, it just becomes a thing that no one has answers for.

• 1:33:09Joe Rogan?

  Right. That is a weird thing, right? We wanna put numbers on stuff. Like, like today, we're like, is it 65 or is it 68% contained? Like, fucking, what? It's a fire. Fire's still up. There's still a fire right now. January 22nd, there's still fire in Los Angeles. It's been going on for weeks. When did it start? What was the date the fire started?

• 1:33:29Speaker 04

  I was reading through something on the New York Times. One possible thing, which doesn't sound right, but they're just going, it's possible. In that area, someone was lighting fireworks on the night of the first. And there was a small fire that started. And some firemen went up to put it out. And they stayed to see if it was gonna catch back up. And five days later, they're like, is that the same fire? Because it was in a really close to the same spot. It'd be real weird if it started back up five days later, but...

• 1:33:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that doesn't really make sense. That doesn't make... Also, it doesn't make sense if you think about how windy it was and the fact that everything's dry.

• 1:34:01Speaker 04

  They're saying it can go into the roots, which is... I'm not... That's where I'm just starting to hear that.

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  Okay, maybe.

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  It can.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Maybe, but five days later, it starts up again as a raging inferno?

• 1:34:09Speaker 04

  That's ridiculous.

• 1:34:10Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps. Perhaps, but there is also evidence that people lit fires. There's also people that got arrested for lighting fires.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  It wouldn't surprise me, man. Have you heard the book Monkey Wrench Gang?

• 1:34:20Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  Eco-terrorism. These like friends living out of a van, they go around and back... Originally, monkey wrenching was sabotaging for environmental reasons. Big equipment to fight back against that kind of thing.

• 1:34:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  I had a friend back in high school. Went to this boarding school, and he was really into it. And that's where I learned about this book. But it wouldn't surprise me if that kind of thinking carried over in someone. Because we saw a copycat, so there's definitely people out there that have a reason.

• 1:34:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:19Joe Rogan?

  And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated, US-based, identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses. Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE. Or go to lifelock.com/JRE for 30% off. Terms apply. Yeah, well, there's disturbed individuals in our society. That's why we have school shooters, right?

• 1:37:00Joe Rogan?

  That's why we have, we have a lot of things that people do that's horrible, that are horrible. And one of the things that people do is they start fires. You know, it's, it's a known thing. And to pretend that it's not possible because it doesn't, it doesn't appeal to your narrative. It doesn't fit with your narrative of the homeless thing that we just have to be compassionate because these are people and there's a housing shortage and it's just housing, housing, housing. No, you have open-air drug markets and mentally ill people and fire. And it's possible that that's what's caused it. L.A. wireflowers rekindle eco-terror arson suspect manhunt after fake firefighters arrested. Yeah, that's the thing. There were fake firefighters that were arrested and there was also fake cops.

• 1:37:42Joe Rogan?

  But I think that was, if I had a guess, it was more about stealing than anything because there was organized looting where they were breaking into homes in areas where there were people going to be abandoned.

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  LA man, it's not my cup of tea, but it's tragic.

• 1:37:57Speaker 04

  One of those firefighters has a history of arson, that's why they're talking about this.

• 1:38:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great. One of the firefighters?

• 1:38:03Speaker 04

  One of the fake firefighters.

• 1:38:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, there you go. One of whom has a criminal history of arson. Gee, what's the odds? Well, he definitely didn't do it again. He learned his lesson, Jamie.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  A fake fire truck?

• 1:38:16Joe Rogan?

  A pair of fake firefighters from Oregon.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Where'd he get a fake fire truck?

• 1:38:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's like dedicated. He's like the Michael Jordan of fake firefighters.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  These are like a million bucks.

• 1:38:26Joe Rogan?

  He got a used one. Did you see the thing in LA where they had the lot where they showed all of the fire trucks that were out of service?

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:38:34Joe Rogan?

  Hundreds.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Oh, they're bringing them back in service?

• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, they were broken down. They hadn't bothered fixing them. So a journalist got to the lot and was filming from the outside. I think Schellenberger had it on his Twitter page. But a journalist got to this lot where these fire trucks were, where they were supposed to be repaired. There was hundreds that weren't repaired. Like, just a fucking huge parking lot.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Jeez.

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Seventy-five Los Angeles fire trucks wait for repairs as wildfires rage while city spends 1.3 billion on the homeless. This is New York Post. I'd heard it was more than seventy-five. This guy had a film of it and showed, and it looked like a shit-ton of trucks that weren't fixed. You should've fixed those. You would've had more trucks.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Their reason's gonna be, well, we're backed up. It takes so long. Like, to get a fire truck even ordered, it takes about a year.

• 1:39:31Joe Rogan?

  God. I mean, maybe that could work where there's very few fires and it's just essentially home fires.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  We're fine where we are, but...

• 1:39:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it rains where you are too.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:42Joe Rogan?

  California, it does not fucking rain for long stretches of time. I think California had gone eight months without rain when these fires started. This is common. This is why this climate change, it's climate change. This is not a change in the climate. This is the climate of California. You see it from that 1961 video. You see it from when I was evacuated. I, three times I was evacuated. The houses in front of my old house burnt to the ground in 2018, both of them.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Like, when you were talking about it in that clip that goes around, it's like you're like, there's nothing they can do.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  If the right wind.

• 1:40:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  It's going.

• 1:40:19Joe Rogan?

  This firefighter told me that when we were filming Fear Factor. He freaked me out. He said, "It's just gonna take the right wind." He goes, "We just get lucky."

• 1:40:27Speaker 01

  So was there any preparation that could've?

• 1:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta get rid of all the brush.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:32Joe Rogan?

  Number one. You gotta get rid of all the stuff that starts fire. That's possible to do. That's not impossible. That's not like putting a person on Venus. This is like something that can be done. Like, if you have enough money for all that, even spent $24 billion on the homeless crisis, didn't put a dent in it. You, you could've fixed the brush. You could have fixed that reservoir that was empty. Giant 11 million gallon reservoir of water completely dry.

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:41:00Joe Rogan?

  You could've fixed that. You could've saved homes. Maybe you wouldn't have saved all of them. You could've saved a lot. You could've saved people's lives. And they didn't. And it was incompetent. And it was poor planning. And it was, you know, they had a lot of ideas that weren't good. They had a lot of, uh, things that they paid attention to and things they focused on that weren't important. What was really important is preventing these kind of reoccurring disasters, continuously reoccurring disasters. I've seen a bunch of them. Like I said, I was evacuated multiple times, but I've seen multiple other fires

• 1:41:39Joe Rogan?

  that I wasn't evacuated from that were huge in all sorts of areas around LA. It's dry as fuck. One of the big ones that, um, we experienced was It was like, we were out filming in, uh, like, out in the Tatchapi area. Like, we're near Tahone Ranch. We're filming this thing at this ranch where, and we had to cut filming short. And when we were driving home, the entire right side of the highway for like, it, almost an hour was on fire as I was driving home. So you're driving, ash is falling from the sky like snow, and the whole time you're driving, it's apocalyptic. The whole right side of the highway is in flames.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Saw a clip of that. It was surreal.

• 1:42:23Joe Rogan?

  So this has always been a problem with LA. So these climate change kooks, these left-wing kooks that want to put everything into these, like, very binary categories. Like, this is because the Republicans refused to agree to climate change and call climate change as a hoax. Is this a climate change field? No, this is LA. This is the climate of LA. Is this the, uh, the fire trucks?

• 1:42:48Speaker 04

  I think that Alex Jones posted it, but...

• 1:42:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he probably posted it too. Lot, uh, quite a few people on Twitter posted it, but there was all these fire trucks that were, uh, in this lot. And this is another video that I saw. I think multiple people posted them, but they're all out of commission. They're all just sitting there. And, you know, obviously they could have used them, but that's only part of the problem. Part of the problem is planning correctly. Part of the problem is, uh, you know, there wasn't enough water for the fire hydrants, so the fire hydrants went dry. The whole thing's nuts. And, um, when Trump talked about it on the podcast, he was eerily accurate. He was eerily accurate as to, you know, what the problem was, and he offered a solution. And in, to save the smelt, they didn't want to do the solution.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Well, this department with Elon, like, you can just imagine what Elon could do with, like, the fire truck problem.

• 1:43:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  But he can't do everything.

• 1:43:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can't do everything with states, right? Because states have states' rights, and they have, you know, like, one of the things, they, they arrest this one guy for arson, and they couldn't necessarily prove that he, uh, was an arsonist, because they, they didn't, they had, one guy they found with a, an actual blowtorch, but they couldn't prove that he lit the fires with the blowtorch. But this guy had been arrested multiple times, including for vandalism and all sorts of other things. And, and I believe assault.

• 1:44:14Joe Rogan?

  And ICE wanted to deport him, but the California sanctuary state law, the way it's set up, they weren't allowed to deport this guy. So they're just gonna let him go. He'd been arrested eight times, this person, in like, you know, a short amount of time. So he's like a real problem person. And they were like, hey, maybe this guy shouldn't be in the fucking country lighting things on fire. And they're like, no, we have sanctuary. Still here? I don't know. I don't know what the latest is. I try not to pay too much attention. I'll go crazy. Yeah. But California is deep in the trance, deep. And I think the only thing that's gonna snap people out of it is something like this, where they realize like, oh my god, these people are completely incompetent. It used to be the homeless situation was

• 1:44:57Joe Rogan?

  a little bit of a wake up call. This is like next level. This is like next level incompetence wake up call. And so I'm hoping that someone can come along that's a reasonable conservative person that can shift things in California, like appeal to people's concerns when it comes to social issues, you know, women's rights, gay rights, the things that people are terrified of when it comes to right wing, you know, when you think about like far right fascist governments that are gonna like clamp down on people's rights, like what we're really worried about is disenfranchised people and marginalized groups and people that are more maligned, right? So if someone can just like appeal to that, and say like, we

• 1:45:37Joe Rogan?

  have no desire to stop gay marriage. We have no desire to, you know, limit women's reproductive rights. But what we do want to do is make a more fiscally sound city and, and have more conservative policies in terms of what are we spending our money on and what are we, what are the results? You can't just say, oh, we work for a homeless initiative and so, oh, well, you got a blank check. Do whatever you wanna do. Like, it should be like, what have you done? How have you, how have you solved the problem? Hey, look, we spent $24 billion and homelessness went up by a significant amount. Tens of thousands of new homeless people while we spent $24 billion. This is not effective. So whatever you guys are doing, you're shitty at it. So we don't want you doing it anymore. We're

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  gonna bring in someone who has some more progress, some, something that's gonna progress the idea better. You know, someone who's gonna fix this problem better. Someone's got a more pragmatic solution. If they could do that, but they have to appeal to people that are deep blue. They're deep blue. They're blue no matter who. And the problem with California is very unique, and more unique than New York, in that California, the entire city, is established around the entertainment industry. And it's established around the dream. If you go to Los Angeles, you can make it. Well, in order to go to Los Angeles and make it, if you're an actor, you have to audition.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  And when you're auditioning, you're auditioning to people that almost universally have a very specific political ideology. You can't be a part of the group. You can't be a part of the team if you're a right-wing, Christian, Republican, and you're making films. That doesn't exist. You've got like Mel Gibson and a few outliers. That's it. Clint Eastwood, a few outliers. For the most part, if you are an actor and you want to work in Hollywood, and by the way, Mel Gibson and all those guys will hire left-wing people. These people will not hire right-wing people. So you see everyone sort of morph their personality and morph their political ideology and their social ideology around what's going to get them picked.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:47:45Joe Rogan?

  Because when you're an actor, you have to get picked. So if like you and I go for a part, and there's a bunch of other people going for a part, and we're all like similarly qualified in terms of like the look that this part is looking for, a lot of it is determined about whether they like you.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  And Hollywood runs off the blacklisting idea.

• 1:48:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:48:04Speaker 01

  If you go against your union, that's how unions have power.

• 1:48:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  If you cross the picket line, you're going to be blacklisted, and you'll be ostracized, and that has real consequences in L.A. because people don't realize what... I always describe it when I'm teaching that class on filmmaking, Hollywood is the very definition of a rigged game.

• 1:48:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's a rigged game. They can shut you out. And so this is the underlying philosophy of the entire city.

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  So even though there's only a certain amount of people that are actors in L.A., there's a lot of people that wanted to be actors. And there's a lot of people that want to be famous. And so they get their fame from their small social media. They get like a little adrenaline and dopamine drip off of like social media likes. And like, maybe I my TikTok can go viral. And then they get a little fame from that. There's a bunch of fame seekers. All those people are locked in to this cult-like thinking. So it's very difficult to get them out of that.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  It's the technology, I think, is going to revolu- we're on the precipice of this. We were talking about Heath Ledger earlier. What happened to those kind of independent movies? That I remember being in high school before going into film school and like watching those Monsters Ball, Candy, these small Heath like independent movies that made you feel like they were just made for you. They weren't like Marvel or Disney, right? And we don't see those anymore. Because everything's changing in the industry for multiple reasons. The strikes had a lot to do with it, I think. It's it's this strange paradox where you have more of an ability to reach an audience than ever before, but there's fewer like writing positions, movies being made.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  There's this shortage of, there's this hiring shortage, but camera's more accessible than ever. You were talking about the potential for someone to come along. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time till it does happen. The Daily Wire is trying kind of with Pen Dragon Cycle.

• 1:50:10Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  They're they were doing an Arthurian legend, their attempt at Game of Thrones, which would be if it were to land, could be massive. It could, I, in my theory is it could be the tipping point. Because it's going non, my understanding is this non-union. You have Angel Studios and they're the kind of trying to compete. But we've never had an alternative to the union model, the traditional production model, which drives up production costs, because there's nothing stopping you from getting a camera and going out there and doing it, except for the rigged game, which says, "Well, we're gonna block you. We won't distribute your movie." There's all these different parameters. You're not SAG sanctioned, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If Daily Wire could land the Pendragon cycle, and it were to be a solid enough story on the

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  equivalence of like Game of Thrones, it could, it could change so much. But there's the recent Brett Cooper stuff that's going on. It's just so much-

• 1:51:02Joe Rogan?

  The what?

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  Brett Cooper leaving the Daily Wire.

• 1:51:05Joe Rogan?

  What's that story?

• 1:51:06Speaker 01

  She was, she's no longer at the Daily Wire, the comment section. You know Brett Cooper? She created the comment section at Daily Wire.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  The comment section, is that what you mean?

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  Comments section. And it's got a-

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  Are you aware of this, Jamie?

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  A little bit. A little bit, yeah. And then they hired someone else to host it.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll break it down, break it down.

• 1:51:24Joe Rogan?

  What happened?

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  She developed, they hired her. Like, we want you to start the- Yeah, we want you to start this YouTube channel for Gen Z. We want it to feel like you're a streamer.

• 1:51:33Joe Rogan?

  Let's hear what she says. Let's rewind that shit. Let's hear what she has to say. Just a little bit.

• 1:51:41Speaker 05

  Hey, guys. Some of you have heard the rumors online, and the rumors are mostly true. Today, December 10th, will be my last day hosting the comment section and working for the Daily Wire. It is not true that I am being forced out. It was my own choice to leave. And believe me, this is bittersweet. I have had the most unbelievable three years, helping to craft the show, building this community, and telling stories and sharing the truth every day. Through the comment section, you all have made me braver, more articulate, more thoughtful, more hopeful than I could have ever imagined. And I'm grateful that we spent this time together. And I'm grateful that the Daily Wire gave us a platform to grow this community. But at this point in my life, I am ready to take on a new direction, both personally and professionally. This means new challenges and new endeavors, which I will share with you soon. As for this show, the comment section will continue with the

• 1:52:25Speaker 05

  Daily Wire. My producer Reagan is taking over as host of the comment section, and I wish her and the Daily Wire all the best. We have had three great years, and I am proud of what we've accomplished together. Leaving the show and the platforms that we've built is hard, but I'm very excited for what's to come.

• 1:52:40Joe Rogan?

  Knowing that we have brought so many people together. Okay, but pause this. I'm not hearing this. So what I'm not hearing is like, what caused?

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  No one knows exactly. There's speculation because the girl who took the place was her best, her maid of honor in her wedding, like best friend was the producer of the show. It'd be like Jamie taking your place, except obviously not, you know, but that's what's happened now. And it's nosedived, it's pulling like it used to pull like half a million views per video. It's pulling forty thousand now. And there was this theory that they had trained Reagan with, they hired an acting coach because her mannerisms were the exact same hand movements, everything. We were talking about nonverbal communication, importance of that. And it was eerie.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  She has started a YouTube channel that's already amassed half a million. She hasn't posted any videos. So there's a lot of loyalists to her, but she grew this channel to over four million people in the last three years, as you're just hearing. And she starred in the pin dragon cycle. She used to act.

• 1:53:40Joe Rogan?

  Right, but what was the problem, though?

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  We don't know. We don't know. There's speculation that she, it exploded the channel. So she, it's likely, if we're applying critical thinking to this, it's more than likely that she approached Jeremy Boring, Daily Wire, like, "Look, guys, I'd like to be paid more than what I'm making because I'm pulling more views than anybody at the Daily Wire, possibly." She was living on this farm with a commute. She was a little fresher at that. Maybe it's she wanted to, there's speculation she wanted to run her show kind of from her house.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  But no one knows exactly. There's NDAs and everything, so.

• 1:54:18Joe Rogan?

  It's hard when someone is a part of a channel and then their show blows up and they realize like, "Oh, I could have done this on my own." Which is the reality. The reality is like being a part of a channel, like it doesn't really get you much, obviously, because the new show only has forty thousand views, right?

• 1:54:34Speaker 01

  True, true. But Jeremy Boring's response would be, "Yeah, but we throw the Daily Wire's advertising money behind these people. We spend a lot in advertising. We lose a lot of money before we make any money."

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but from what shows? Not the shows that are successful. The shows that are successful are successful. Like that you lose, that's the problem, that's like the record business

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:53Joe Rogan?

  version of arithmetic.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  You can't buy the elusive intangible.

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, their, their, the record business is notoriously horrible with that. So they, they have a model where when they sign an artist, the artist gets an advance. Right? And then the advance, you're, you're responsible for so much. You're responsible for advertising. They, they take into account a bunch of artists they spend money on that doesn't create money. So they have all this Hollywood math that they apply.

• 1:55:28Speaker 01

  Hollywood accounting.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  And at the end of it, like, they make more than you and you make almost nothing.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  So that's very likely a possibility.

• 1:55:34Joe Rogan?

  And they throw as much shit against the wall as possible. Think of a record company, you know, they might, they might fund a bunch of different artists.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Predo distribution.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then only one or two of them take off, but those one or two of them

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  Pay for everything.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  that's Prince and he's getting fucked. And meanwhile, he's a giant superstar, like Prince had to change his name. He's like, okay, well, you own Prince? You guys own, okay, I'm this now, I'm a fucking squiggly line. That's what he did. So it was the artist formerly known as Prince. You know, and you know that, like Prince for a while, when he was in, was it Warner Brothers? Whoever he was in dispute with, he changed his name to a symbol.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:56:11Joe Rogan?

  And that was how he could still perform. He's like, yeah, you don't own this bitch.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  And there's probably a non-compete clause, that's just why she hasn't posted anything yet.

• 1:56:19Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  It's, yeah.

• 1:56:20Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, that's what you get if you want the shortcut, right? The shortcut is being a part of a, a channel. You know, I'm gonna connect myself to a channel and, you know, I'm gonna agree to give them X amount, percentage of what I do. It's really not a smart way to do it today and it's not necessary. Because today, all you have to do is have a camera and a backdrop and just start recording. And organically, if your content is good, your thing can grow and then it's yours. It's all yours. And then getting advertising is not hard. If you're successful, you get an agent, you get an advertising agent and they bring you me undies ads and all kinds of shit. And next thing you know, you're making money. You're making money off your channel and then your channel grows organically.

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  And then you don't have to deal with executives telling you what kind of guests you should have on or what topics you should avoid or what things you should accentuate. Or we'd like you to talk about this today, like. All that stuff is, you know, and then as you get more and more famous from your work, you realize, no, the people like me, like this is the reason why this show was going on, and I've got to pay these assholes 60% of everything I'm making. And this is dumb. If I was on YouTube independently, I would be rich right now. I'd be making good money. I'd have a nice car. And instead, I'm getting a salary. And my salary is not really representative of how much income I'm bringing into the company.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you've got like someone like Jordan Peterson, who did partner with the same company. And maybe that allows him to do more, like, traveling over, what did they do, like the, you know, Jerusalem series?

• 1:57:51Joe Rogan?

  Right, but I bet he got a better deal. First of all, it's Jordan Peterson. He's already famous, you know, and they like, they would throw money at him. You know, like, there was that famous thing with Steven Crowder, where Steven Crowder sort of, yeah.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  People were using that in context of this, saying this, this kind of...

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so, and the Crowder thing was kind of weird because he recorded a conversation, a private conversation that he had.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:13Joe Rogan?

  But the, the whole thing behind it is, like, you're getting money to agree to be a part of a company. And the only reason why they would be willing to give you that money is if they're gonna make money. Like, they have to, they're taking a chance. I saw, I went through a similar thing with Spotify, but Spotify was great. There was no issues at all. It was like, we think this show is really valuable. We're gonna give you a lot of money to be exclusive on Spotify. And just, that's it. Pretty simple. No input at all in terms of like, who I should have on, or what I should talk about, or, you know, there was nothing. It was, there was a few hiccups during the COVID days where, you know, they were experiencing so many attacks. They were, they were getting like, strong pressure to try to remove the podcast.

• 1:58:57Joe Rogan?

  And they didn't buckle. They, they hung in there.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Good for them.

• 1:59:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good for them. I'm very loyal to them because of that, because what they did was pretty extraordinary. A lot of people would have caved. And they did not cave.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  But to bring it, but you see how that now is gonna, they've already filmed Pin Dragon Cycle, this whole thing, this Arthurian, so it's probably gonna impact.

• 1:59:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, I hope it's good, you know?

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:59:21Joe Rogan?

  The, the thing is like, who's writing it? How good are the people that are writing it? How good is the story?

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  It's all about the story.

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's all about the story. It's all about how good is it, you know, because it's...

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  I was thinking about that on the airplane.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  Like how the logic of story, trying to connect all these dots and everything. But I think there is a inherent, there are patterns. Like I was talking about mathematics, how I can't think about math. I need a visual.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  I think when you're writing a movie, you can, when it clicks into place, you can feel it. And they call it cracking the story. And they hire writers to crack the story, almost like it's a math problem. So to me, that indicates that there's like this fabric, this is how I think about it. There's this fabric of reality that stories tap into, that you're trying to connect, connect to. And you can, so you feel it when it clicks in.

• 2:00:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  And you're almost, when it is, when it does click and you have that hook, you're like, this is the reason to make, why this movie is interesting.

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:00:30Speaker 01

  Then you're almost making it for the sake of the story, not the audience. But the audience will come as a consequence.

• 2:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  As opposed to today, where people think they can make movies for the audience, like Disney. But they're discarding the very fabric of the reality of these stories that they can, well, we can change Snow White.

• 2:00:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:47Speaker 01

  And then that screws them up.

• 2:00:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck, well, it's also people like really resistant to that now. They're getting so upset about it. They don't want you to force feed them some sort of activist version of a story. They just want stories. They want the thing where, you know, you're saying like, you, you get it. Like, oh, that we found it. This is the hook. This is the meat of the story. This is the exciting, this is the thing that resonates with people. That's why it's so frustrating when you go to a movie and that never happens. You never get hooked in.

• 2:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you can take the same story and tell it different ways. Logically, there's one ideal way. You're never going to quite get there.

• 2:01:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  Because I was watching Beautiful Mind on the airplane, which is, I think, my favorite movie. I'm trying to think of one's better. It's just.

• 2:01:34Joe Rogan?

  Amazing movie.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that movie nailed it. Yeah.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  Maybe that's why I'm thinking so much about like math and everything.

• 2:01:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's kind of a math to it, right?

• 2:01:44Speaker 01

  That's my point. Yeah. Yeah. And then Dunkirk, all right, so this blew my mind. So the golden ratio can be found in music, movies, everything. Then someone showed me on your arm, this is the golden ratio, one, wait, one to 1.6. Then from here. One, wait, sorry, one to 1.6 in your hand, one to 1.6, your finger to the knuckle, one to 1.6. Now, if you break down what Nolan did in Dunkirk, this is probably getting too nerdy and everything. He took three different storylines, did what he does with

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  the shepherd tone, and air, land, and sea. Land is a, the story takes place over a week. Air, an hour. Sea, a day. And then he does what he does with the shepherd tone, which is in Batman and all of his movies, it's an ascending tone, like a barber shop spiral that is infinite. Where you, it's, the first sound is like crescendo, and then it fades out, and the middle one is consistent, and the top one is going down, and it sounds to the human ear, infinite. He took that which he's used in the Batman's bike, the music he's used in all the prestige in most of his movies. If you listen to Dunkirk, you

• 2:03:04Speaker 01

  hear this sound, and it's just increasing tension, and you don't even notice it almost. It's because it never reaches a crescendo, so you feel like something's off, but you never quite get there. He then takes that and structures the frickin' story as a shepherd tone, to the point where, at the very end, and you are in that frickin', the golden ratio, so if this is the meat of the movie, in that final hour of air, the three stories converge. There's a mathematical formula to why, it's not a coincidence. And that was what separates him. So there's a math, math is the right word.

• 2:03:41Joe Rogan?

  He seems uniquely uninfluenced by pop culture, too.

• 2:03:45Speaker 01

  True.

• 2:03:45Joe Rogan?

  He's, I think he famously doesn't have email. He's one of those guys, doesn't have a phone, doesn't have email, and obviously incredibly brilliant person. So he's...

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Obviously aware of email, he's aware of phones, but I think he's probably one of those guys goes, you know what? The more that's coming in, that's influencing me, is it's gonna fuck with my ability to have a vision. A unique, personal vision, based on what I know resonates with people, and what I know resonates with me, and how to make a story that really works.

• 2:04:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you're writing for yourself. You should, you should treat yourself like, that's what I do with my YouTube stuff, it's like, you don't try and do it for annoy, because-

• 2:04:28Joe Rogan?

  You do it for the thing. You make the thing the best thing it can be.

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is what you wanna see. That's how you ju- how do you judge it? How do you know if it's good or not, right? It's because of what I would wanna see. I'm gonna try and make it as good as what I would wanna see.

• 2:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah.

• 2:04:44Joe Rogan?

  It is, um, it's a fascinating medium, right? Because now it's also being challenged by these shows that are essentially long movies, like Ozark.

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:56Joe Rogan?

  Right? It's, Ozark's a long movie.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:58Joe Rogan?

  So, and you can get so much, on The Sopranos, you get so much more into depth with the characters and the interactions, and, and everything that's below the boat, you know?

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  There's so much more when you have six seasons or something.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  I heard you talking to Tarantino about that.

• 2:05:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, he was talking, he disparagingly talked about Yellowstone being a soap opera. But he, but he also talked about Homeland. About Homeland was an exception to that, because it was essentially this amazing moment at the end of the first season.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:27Joe Rogan?

  Where the, the show is like, Homeland, first season was incredible, and it is like a movie. It's really good, it's really well made. And at the end of it, you're like, wow, this is a fucking incredible piece of just artwork.

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  Have you seen Taylor Sheridan's new show, Landman?

• 2:05:44Joe Rogan?

  I haven't, I watched one episode, I haven't seen it all yet.

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  It takes a bit to get into it, but it's, he's doing something that no one else is doing.

• 2:05:52Joe Rogan?

  I was a little thrown off by the lady who's playing his daughter, because she's clearly like thirty years old. And I'm like, how are you telling me she's seventeen? This is crazy.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  With that, but-

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  But that's crazy, like, that girl looks like she's, she's gotta be twenty-five years old, at least.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  You think?

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's find out. Yeah, no, I know she is. We looked at it.

• 2:06:09Speaker 01

  From a producer's perspect- yeah, you're not gonna hire a frickin' eighteen, you're gonna hire someone over eighteen for labor laws, for sure, so she's definitely-

• 2:06:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, how about to hire someone that's eighteen?

• 2:06:18Speaker 01

  Nineteen, so then you can get around the label.

• 2:06:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay, even eighteen, nineteen.

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  At least she looks like.

• 2:06:23Joe Rogan?

  At least she looks like she could be seventeen.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that's her.

• 2:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-seven.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  Oh dang.

• 2:06:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:06:28Speaker 01

  You got it.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-seven, that's.

• 2:06:30Speaker 01

  Alright, you nailed it.

• 2:06:31Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful lady, but looks like a lady.

• 2:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Looks like a beautiful woman, does not look like a high school kid.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  Good point.

• 2:06:37Joe Rogan?

  And so, when you're seeing that, it throws you off, like immediately, like, what did, what are you doing here?

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  Touche.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  This is nuts.

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:44Joe Rogan?

  It just doesn't make any sense.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't, I'm not saying she looks bad at all, she looks great, she looks, but she looks like a mature woman, she doesn't look like a young child, so when he's got this dynamic where he's dealing this like wild rebellious teenage daughter.

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  And, like, hey, bro, she's lying. That's like, when was the last time you saw her? That might not be the same person.

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  Billy Bob's hilarious, though.

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  He's great, he's fucking phenomenal.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  He has some great rants about climate change and oil.

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  He's a phenomenal actor. Well, that's the other thing about climate change, like, listen, if you really think that it's oil is the problem with climate change, well, you better change your whole fucking life.

• 2:07:20Speaker 01

  That's what he said.

• 2:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Everything in your goddamn, is that what he says? Everything in your goddamn life is made with oil, everything in your hair, everything in your car, everything in your phone, everything in your fucking life is made with oil.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  And you're reading the Elon's, Elon's biography on the airplane, but, hey, do you think he could he thinks he could get the solution with the solar, with the battery walls and the battery roof, could that work?

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Um, it may, may work, but you're still dealing with some kind of pollution from brake dust. You're dealing with, uh, we, we, we actually pulled this up recently, we were talking about, it was an enormous percent of more pollutants are released into the atmosphere because of electric cars than combustion engines, because of brake dust. So, electric cars, um, the one thing good about electric cars is specifically Teslas. Teslas have regenerative braking, so when I drive my Tesla, oftentimes I don't even have to hit the brakes, because I just let off the gas when I'm getting close to an intersection, I gently tap the brakes when I get close to the line, where the red light is. But when you're driving normally, it's like one foot driving.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  The brakes work, but you don't have to use them. Cause when you let off the brakes, or let off the gas, rather, the, the, the car slows itself. And it slows, it doesn't coast.

• 2:08:40Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:08:41Joe Rogan?

  Like you can't just hit sixty miles an hour and then let your foot off the gas and it'll just kinda cruise along. It doesn't do that.

• 2:08:47Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:08:48Joe Rogan?

  It slows down, like considerably, because it's regenerating electricity through this regenerative braking aspect of it. So that probably has less brake dust than other electric cars. But, uh, you know, there's electric cars that you'll drive, like if you drive like the Porsche Taycan. It's an amazing electric car. It doesn't have that regenerative braking thing, or at least it's, maybe it's a setting and, you know, the car that I was in didn't have it turned on. But when you let off the gas, it just coasts like a regular car.

• 2:09:18Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:09:18Joe Rogan?

  So those cars are much heavier than regular cars, much heavier. And there's a problem with guardrails because of that. So guardrails are designed for a car that's a specific weight. And, you know, most cars weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of four thousand, five thousand pounds. But when you add batteries, so if you have a, a car that's filled with enormous amounts of batteries, that car is a lot heavier than a regular car. And some of those cars just go right through those guardrails. Whee, cause there's just too much mass.

• 2:09:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you have more brake dust that gets into the air because you have to slow down this much larger, heavier vehicle, or much, much more mass. And when you're doing that, you're generating more brake dust. And the only solution to that, we talked about it, like, uh, carbon fiber brakes, which are expensive and mostly in high-performance cars, they have much less brake dust. So like, you know, when you clean your car and you, if you're washing your car, you go to the wheels, there's all that dust that's around the, the dark dust that's around the wheel, that you have to clean, that's all brake dust. So that's getting into the air. So if you have a place that is high traffic and like stop and go traffic, you get brake dust everywhere.

• 2:10:32Speaker 04

  I read an article that kind of disagrees with that and it explains why here in this third paragraph.

• 2:10:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so it's. Many of the claims about EVs causing air pollution reference figures from a mission and analytics, a private company. Founder Nick Molden said that its measurements show that particulate emissions can be 1,850 times more than those from modern car exhaust, which have become cleaner because of regulations. But the headline finding needs some context, the tests have not been peer reviewed by scientists, and the industry disputes the findings. That doesn't mean anything. What they just said doesn't mean anything. Just because they haven't been peer reviewed and that the industry disputes it, that doesn't mean that it's not true.

• 2:11:10Speaker 04

  This was the third article I got to.

• 2:11:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:12Speaker 04

  Said that there's less from, because of regenerative braking.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, what we just talked about. But regenerative braking, again, I don't think is in all electric cars. I know it's standard on Teslas. Crucially, all cars produce those pollutants, that's true, not just electric version, that's true, but that's not true, what they're saying is not true either, because these heavier cars produce more. That's just what they're saying. Measuring tiny particulates is very difficult, there are relatively few comparative studies so far. That means there's still uncertainty over whether the extra weight of EV batteries will result in worse particulate pollution. But, it makes sense. It's logical. So, if they're showing this, if he's done a study, and it's showing this in the study, this is a logical conclusion.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Is that an electric Range Rover?

• 2:12:02Joe Rogan?

  Um, yeah, I don't even know that they existed. Was that a new thing?

• 2:12:07Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:12:08Speaker 04

  I'm just looking at multiple articles and this one had a answer.

• 2:12:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot now. It says, calculate that EVs are 400 kilograms heavier on average because of the bulky batteries. Yeah. So, just because it hasn't been peer reviewed doesn't mean it's true. And the reason why they're saying this is because they're trying to put it into context, like, yes, electric vehicles are generally better for the environment, particularly if you have regenerative braking, but there's also an added element. And what the solution might be is to make carbon fiber brakes standard. It's carbon ceramic brakes, standard that you need them, just like you need catalytic converters. It would be more expensive, though.

• 2:12:46Speaker 01

  I never heard of that.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so most brakes have steel rotors. You know, steel hits this carbon and it just releases more brake dust. Or steel hits the pads, releases more brake dust.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  I've got a hybrid RAV4, I love it.

• 2:13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, those are really good on gas.

• 2:13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  I mean, something that's good on gas is gonna be better, for sure. Something that's bad on gas is gonna burn more. But the the bottom line is, there's there's problems with all technologies in terms of um whether or not they go into a landfill. Like, this is a giant problem with windmills. Windmills aren't efficient, they're gross looking, they pollute the landscape in terms of the way it looks. You just see these fucking windmills everywhere. And those things have to go in the landfill. So you have these enormous fiberglass propellers that now have to be buried in the ground.

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  Billy Bob goes on a good rant about the windmills.

• 2:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Does he?

• 2:13:42Speaker 01

  I don't remember what it was, though. He rips them apart.

• 2:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're not effective. They're not they're not good enough for for what they do to the environment. You know, they they kill whales, that's the other thing, you know. Trump talked about that, too. That these things, when they set these things up, you know, uh, near the ocean, like, the sound is fucking with these whales.

• 2:13:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 2:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's it's not good. It's not the way to go. Maybe solar's better. Uh, but, you know, if you have, like, enormous areas of land that are covered in solar panels, that looks gross, too.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  But if we could just have, like, one designated area in the center of the, like, take, you know, a state and fucking make that state just a battery, maybe that would work. Yeah, maybe LA. Maybe when LA burns to the ground, like, look, it's already toxic, let's just turn the power into a battery.

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  How are they gonna rebuild if it's like, yeah, there's nothing we can do if this happens again?

• 2:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's also the fire insurance problem, that a lot of uh, insurance companies pulled their fire coverage because they're like, look, nothing's being done to stop these fires, we know the fires are coming, we're gonna lose all of our money, we're just gonna pull out.

• 2:14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:42Joe Rogan?

  And they did that. And so now, a lot of these people that lost their homes were not insured. So now they're really fucked. And then you got Gavin Newsom on TV talking about speculators come in, land speculators doing his little fucking dance, and they're like, what is, what are you guys doing over there? This is it's horrible. This is horrible. And uh, what what solutions are on the table? Well, I'll tell you, it's not not as simple as don't drill for oil. You know, like, god damn it.

• 2:15:10Speaker 01

  I don't see the mayor making it through this.

• 2:15:12Joe Rogan?

  She doesn't seem like she should make it through.

• 2:15:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:15:15Joe Rogan?

  She was, was she seen like some sort of a radical communist activist when she was younger too?

• 2:15:19Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:15:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:21Speaker 01

  That clip of her in the airport, it's like, really?

• 2:15:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  You're not.

• 2:15:25Joe Rogan?

  Not good.

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  It's.

• 2:15:26Joe Rogan?

  Not responding at all.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  You.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Look shell shocked.

• 2:15:29Speaker 01

  It's.

• 2:15:30Joe Rogan?

  And then smiling when she's on TV. We're gonna rebuild with a bunch of construction workers behind her.

• 2:15:34Speaker 01

  I didn't see that.

• 2:15:35Joe Rogan?

  It's like, look, we're rebuilding.

• 2:15:36Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:15:37Joe Rogan?

  Just smiling. We're gonna re, we're gonna get to work. Like, you're not gonna get to work. You're not gonna get to work. You're not gonna have, these people aren't gonna have the money to rebuild. Where's the money gonna come from? Are you gonna give them the money for those homes? You're talking now about three hundred billion dollars worth of damage and counting. Right? Are you gonna, you gonna shell out three hundred billion dollars to give those people their homes back? When someone has an eighty-two million dollar home, are you gonna give them that eighty-two million dollars and rather than pay teachers more money?

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  In North Carolina, in the middle of Appalachia, you have people with cheaper homes than anywhere in LA. They're not getting.

• 2:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:16:08Speaker 01

  Money back. There's.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  No, they're not. They're not even getting attention anymore.

• 2:16:12Speaker 01

  No, that's crazy.

• 2:16:13Joe Rogan?

  These people are waiting in line for fuel. They're waiting in line for propane fuel so they don't freeze to death.

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 2:16:18Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:16:19Speaker 01

  I was just down there over the holidays and saw, my brother and I, we invested in a little, the only thing I've ever invested in, like that little Airbnb, like, super cheap and it's just gone.

• 2:16:28Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  But, so.

• 2:16:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, everything's gone there. It's, it's, it was a crazy disaster. But again, you could say that's climate change. But, but, the problem with that statement is that the climate has never been static. There has never been a moment in human history where the climate was absolutely predictable to the degree every year. It's just not the case. Climate varies. It has always varied. The real question should be, how much of an impact are we having on it? And how much of an impact are we having on pollution? The pollution, the particulate, is, that's a real issue. It's a real issue. And if other countries aren't addressing that, I read something, find out if this is true, that China, right now, is responsible for more pollutants in the atmosphere, more carbon in the atmosphere than.

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  All the other countries combined.

• 2:17:19Speaker 01

  I wouldn't doubt it at all. I wouldn't doubt that.

• 2:17:21Joe Rogan?

  They're like, majority of the pollutants in the atmosphere are coming from there. And they're not going to change. So you switching to an electric car, or you stop using a gas stove, or you, whatever you're doing. It's not going to have an impact if CO2 is entirely what's going on. And even if we got down to climate neutral, that doesn't stop global warming. It doesn't stop a shift in the change that has always gone up and down throughout recorded history. When we do ice samples, when they do core samples and they go back 10, 15, 20,000, 50,000 years. There's always been enormous shifts in the temperature.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Half of North America was covered in a mile-high sheet of ice up until 12,000 years ago. So, miles in some places, more than a mile. So there's always been shifts in the climate. Long before there was any industrial revolution, long before there was any gas-powered cars. China emissions exceed all developed nations combined. Combined.

• 2:18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  And they're not going to change. They're not going to, they're not going to shift that. That's what they do.

• 2:18:30Speaker 01

  Long-term, I think China's poses the greatest potential threat still. I heard, there was, you had a CIA, ex-CIA guy on who was talking about the 21-year plan for China that blew my mind. Because when I was in graduate school, it was like, 80% of the other students were from China. And I'm not, no one believes that. There was multiple classes where I went in, I was the only non-Chi, not just American student, non-Chinese student. And there'd be 15 people in the class.

• 2:18:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  When I showed my thesis film, I went in and the whole auditorium was Chinese and every other film that played that night was in Chinese.

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:19:06Speaker 01

  So you're like, and I tried to do a documentary on it and then I was kind of, the people didn't like that. All I was doing was asking questions, like, how'd you end up coming straight for this? And it's a societal, there's a...

• 2:19:19Speaker 01

  You know, what's the word? The parents want to do it. There's a social aspect. It's viewed as something that you want to do. And then there was the one child policy for a long time so they can afford to do it.

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  But it's crazy.

• 2:19:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're in a very strange time of narratives and truth. Where narratives to many people are more important than objective truth. And that's never good for anybody. It's never good for anybody to ignore the reality of what's going on.

• 2:19:49Speaker 01

  No, and there's a lot of, I mean, Peterson and you talked about this a lot. The postmodernism, the effect of postmodernism, the fact that there's an infinite variety of interpretations to stories. But it's, that doesn't mean that there's not, everything's not just a social construct. It doesn't mean that there's not an ideal to strive for.

• 2:20:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And the problem with people that talk about climate change is they never talk about China emissions. They talk about America. Trump wants to pull us out of the Paris Accord. They want to do this, they want to do that. Like, look, look at what's going on in the world. Like, you're not going to stop China from producing more CO2 and more emissions than all the other developed nations combined. And you're not even talking about it. If you really wanted to address the problem, it would be that. That's the problem. That's the biggest part of the problem. What's the biggest offender? It's China. And they don't talk about that at all because they don't want to be racist. So it's like, they just want to concentrate on people that, you know, live in America.

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  And then criticizing the idea of drilling for oil.

• 2:21:00Speaker 01

  Well, you said at the beginning of this conversation too, you were talking about the potential for both sides. And we are in a strange time as well where we're seeing things coming from both sides that are very strange. This rethinking of like Winston Churchill and everything, there's just...

• 2:21:14Joe Rogan?

  What's the rethinking of Winston Churchill?

• 2:21:16Speaker 01

  When Tucker Carlson had on, I'm forgetting the name of the historian, doesn't matter.

• 2:21:21Joe Rogan?

  Martin May, Daryl Cooper.

• 2:21:22Speaker 01

  Daryl Cooper, yeah. I think people ask me sometimes, after all this video stuff, they're like, what's the, what would you recommend reading and studying for critical thinking? And I think Winston Churchill is the ultimate example of critical thinking, because critical thinking is all about like, thinking for yourself for the long term, when everyone around you is telling you that you're wrong. When the stakes are at their highest, is what he was dealing with. And it's such a fascinating time, World War II. I just think there's so much, you could just study that conflict and gain so much insight.

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  One thing that my friend Chris Distefano brought up on the podcast that blew me away was Operation Unthinkable.

• 2:22:04Speaker 01

  I haven't heard that one.

• 2:22:05Joe Rogan?

  That was a proposal from Winston Churchill at the end of World War II to go to war with Russia. That the Soviet Union was getting too big and powerful, and they would take the Nazis, that they had, they'd take the German soldiers and then go invade Russia.

• 2:22:19Speaker 01

  I haven't heard that. It wouldn't surprise me. He was, he did not like Stalin. Because with Roosevelt, they, they got buddy buddy. But there's some, my whole thesis was on this, the untold story of Churchill's role with Harvard, Harvard's role, the president of Harvard, meeting with Churchill secretly, when the Blitz was going on, and Roosevelt was up for reelection, couldn't travel over there to meet with him, because, and this echoes to today, exactly what we were talking about. Ninety-eight percent of the public were against involvement in World War II. That's why they called it the European Conflict. It's not, it's not our fight. And he knew it was inevitable. And he couldn't be seen talking to Churchill in that way, because they were publicly, they were like, nope,

• 2:23:02Speaker 01

  lend-lease program, we're not assisting. Like, if you watch Darkest Hour, they do a good job of showing the extremes. They're like, we can send horses to pull the weapons across the border, but we can't be seen. So he sent the president of Harvard of all places. This is where the Secret Scholar Society came from. It's this story, and I found it in the Harvard archive, when I was researching for my thesis film.

• 2:23:24Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was blown away. I was like, how is no one? And it taps into Oppenheimer. So James B. Conant, that guy on the left, that's the president of Harvard. This is afterwards. Churchill comes for an honorary degree, after everything's won, everything.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  Conan on the left flies over there, meets with him. They make a secret deal. They have all this research. They have, they're ready to do radar. It's developed, but they can't build it. They're cut off from the world. All of Europe has fallen, except England. They stand alone, their darkest hour. And he is desperate. He's just trying to hold out until America will join. Imagine being in that position. Everyone around you is saying, we have got to surrender. We have got to negotiate. And he's like, no, he's like, no. Only when the last of us are choking in their own blood. He's like, we have to fight to the death. That's not logical. But it's what saved them. When does illogical behavior save you?

• 2:24:23Speaker 01

  That's something that connects to the very fabric of reality that goes beyond what we can articulate. It connects like spirituality. When does like, living as though God existed, save them in a way? So he negotiates with Conan and they bring that tech back, develop a secret lab at Harvard to build it all. That's where sonar came from. Napalm, there was a special, the Harvard candle, named after Harvard. It's a remarkable story. It's so deep. I could talk.

• 2:24:53Joe Rogan?

  You know what I found out last night? My friend Kurt Metzger told me this. We were talking about the Elon gaffe where he's like, my heart goes out to you. Like, hey, don't do that, though.

• 2:25:03Speaker 01

  That's the perfect example of when you see a story, you believe it's true. If you believe he's a Nazi, you're going to see him do a silly hand gesture and see that as that.

• 2:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's saying, my heart goes out to you. But that is how the Nazis did it. But this is the thing, this is what I found out last night. That's also how they used to do the pledge of allegiance.

• 2:25:24Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  The pledge of allegiance used to be done like this, until the Nazis came along. And then we switched it to this, your hand over your heart. So we cut out that part.

• 2:25:32Speaker 01

  There's going to be a screen grab of you.

• 2:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's already a screen grab. This is what's funny. CNN during the COVID times in particular, whenever I get in trouble, the photo they would use of me was me at the UFC weigh-ins. So when I do the weigh-ins, I announce the weigh-ins, I say, welcome to the weigh-ins, everybody. I'm waving to the crowd. That's what they did. So they would use this photo of me to try to make it look like I was some sort of a Nazi.

• 2:25:56Speaker 01

  Whatever.

• 2:25:57Joe Rogan?

  Cause I'm waving to the crowd and they take a freeze frame of it. I'm like, welcome to the weigh-ins, everybody. I'm, I put my hands out to the crowd. I'm saying hi to everybody. I'll show you this, Jamie. You probably could find it if you look for it, but I'm gonna show you what it looked like in the old days.

• 2:26:14Speaker 04

  I'm looking at, I was trying to find a different, different explanation, but I have a picture of it, that's why I was just digging for better versions.

• 2:26:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, that's it. That's how they did the Pledge of Allegiance.

• 2:26:23Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that?

• 2:26:25Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 2:26:25Joe Rogan?

  That's in 1942.

• 2:26:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  So this is, you know, and then we realized, oh, we can't do that anymore. That's how the Nazis do it.

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  It's right around that time.

• 2:26:32Joe Rogan?

  Pledge of Allegiance would be your right hand up in the air.

• 2:26:35Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:26:36Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that?

• 2:26:38Speaker 01

  Well, we were in, we were just getting into World War II, so we didn't have the, the views of Hitler embodied in us.

• 2:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Pretty bizarre, though.

• 2:26:46Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:26:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, the...

• 2:26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:50Joe Rogan?

  Now you're not allowed to do that anymore.

• 2:26:51Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 2:26:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like, it's so funny because because of this, there's all these photos of AOC with her arm out like this, and Michelle Obama, it's like, everybody's a Nazi. It's so dumb.

• 2:27:02Speaker 01

  You can go look at anybody and find that.

• 2:27:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you move your arms at all. You're trying to catch a ball. You know, anything you're doing where your arms up in the air, now you're a Nazi, like, oh my god. How about that, uh, that Hindu guy that was, kept his arm up in the air for like 60 years? You know that one?

• 2:27:19Speaker 01

  Not familiar.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Never seen that? We talked about him the other day. Who brought him up?

• 2:27:22Speaker 04

  I did.

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  You, you, Jamie brought him up. So there's this guy who has not put his arm down and like some insane amount, his arm is like shriveled, it's useless.

• 2:27:30Speaker 01

  Why?

• 2:27:31Joe Rogan?

  It's a devotion to Lord Chiva. So he has his, uh, to like, to show his devotion, he decided, I'm gonna keep my arm up forever. And now his arm's frozen in place. And now he's like a really old man. That's what he looks like.

• 2:27:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:27:43Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is that?

• 2:27:44Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  He has a useless right arm now. Look, look at his fingers are all twisted up and fucked up, his nails are all fucked up.

• 2:27:51Joe Rogan?

  His, his right arm is essentially completely useless. It just stays like that. It doesn't move anymore.

• 2:27:58Speaker 01

  Power of Stories.

• 2:27:59Joe Rogan?

  Nuts. Yeah, 1973, decided to raise his right arm 90 degrees to the air, his fingers have withered to the palm of his hand, his knuckles are white with rot, and his nails have grown long and twisted.

• 2:28:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a Nazi.

• 2:28:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't make that connection. I was like, why?

• 2:28:18Joe Rogan?

  That guy's doing a Nazi salute forever.

• 2:28:24Joe Rogan?

  That's how dedicated he is to being a Nazi. He won't even put the hand down. He's all in, all in forever until he dies. They're gonna have to get him in a super long coffin.

• 2:28:35Speaker 01

  How's Elon handling this whole? He'd probably be like, what the?

• 2:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was definitely what the fuck, and he was happy that the ADL of all people defended him.

• 2:28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was good.

• 2:28:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's obvious. Like, any but, but all these people on Twitter are just chiming in, saying it's clearly a Nazi salute. He's doing a Nazi salute. Yeah.

• 2:28:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:28:58Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:28:58Speaker 01

  It's so dumb.

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  It's so dumb.

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  It's not clearly.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's cra- the whole thing's crazy. But that's a sign of the times, and they couldn't help it. They saw a thing, and they're like, this is, we're gonna run with it. He's clearly showing he's a Nazi, you know, that Trump's in office, and he's a Nazi, and this is... Fascism is real, folks, here it is. This, my heart goes out to you.

• 2:29:23Joe Rogan?

  It's just weird. It's illogical and weird, but it's a sign of this thing that is a real problem in today, where people will pretend something is something other than what it is if it suits their narrative. And that's what this is.

• 2:29:38Speaker 01

  Yes, power story.

• 2:29:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the power story. That is, that really truly is a great example of the power of story. Because the story that everyone's afraid of is that this right-wing dictator has gotten into power, and he's brought with him this billionaire oligarch who happens to be one of the richest men, if not the richest person on the planet Earth, and this guy is secretly a Nazi. And he's been hiding it all these days until Trump got in office.

• 2:30:03Speaker 01

  It'd make a great movie.

• 2:30:04Joe Rogan?

  Let's go!

• 2:30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it'd make a great movie.

• 2:30:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:09Speaker 01

  It's...

• 2:30:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's fascinating, but it also, um, what it does is it opens the door for people like yourself. It opens the door for reasonable, logical people who can talk about things in an objective, critical way. And just like analyze, well, what is this? Why do we think this? What is the cause of this? And that's really how you got on the map, by just being a voice of reason. And in a time where there's very little reason, anybody that steps up that says, you know, and says something that makes people resonate, it resonates with people to the point where like, yes, more of this guy, more people like that. Like, I like how this guy thinks. I like how this guy talks. And that's what I got out of it.

• 2:30:53Speaker 01

  It's surreal. I don't know. I don't think about it. I try and, it's.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, you shouldn't think about it.

• 2:30:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't think about it.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, then you get audience capture, right?

• 2:31:01Speaker 01

  And you freeze too. It's like Heath Ledger acting. You can't, if you think about like, oh, a hundred thousand people might see what I'm gonna, then you just can't talk.

• 2:31:11Joe Rogan?

  That's probably why Christopher Nolan doesn't have a phone, you know? Same kind of thing, like to make the kind of films that he makes.

• 2:31:19Speaker 01

  Have you reached out to him, have you?

• 2:31:20Joe Rogan?

  No, I haven't. I don't even know if he does any interviews. I don't know.

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  Rarely.

• 2:31:24Joe Rogan?

  I would love to have him on though. I'm a huge fan of his work. I think he's brilliant. Obviously. He's not just brilliant, like amazing, like unusual.

• 2:31:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:31Joe Rogan?

  Uniquely brilliant.

• 2:31:33Speaker 01

  He's got this mathematical mind.

• 2:31:34Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  And he approaches story in that way.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  So did Kubrick.

• 2:31:38Speaker 01

  There's.

• 2:31:40Joe Rogan?

  A lot of parallels there, right?

• 2:31:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Kubrick in his spare time would do complex math.

• 2:31:46Speaker 01

  I wish. Yeah, that's crazy.

• 2:31:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So his films were all, like Kubrick's films all had like encoded things in them.

• 2:31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I heard you talking to Tarantino or somebody about the lost kind of Eyes Wide, is that?

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Eyes Wide Shut. Yeah, it was Roger Avery.

• 2:32:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:32:04Joe Rogan?

  Roger Avery and Tarantino. And so Roger Avery was discussing how there was supposed to be a narrator through Eyes Wide Shut. And they changed that. And after he died, when Kubrick died, before they, they made a different cut of the film. And he firmly believes that it should be like recut and it should be done with a narrator. And in AI, you could actually probably do Kubrick narrating it if you wanted to, you know? You could get samples of his voice and he could narrate it. Um, but that would, you know, you you would also like, how would you know how he would cut it? You'd kind of be fucking around. But apparently, there's many scenes that never made it into it that Kubrick wanted in. And then in the final cut, they changed.

• 2:32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:48Joe Rogan?

  The Shining is filled with them. It's filled with like, there's all the the moon landing conspiracies of all cling cling on to it. Cause the the room number, that's like the haunted room is, uh, I think it's two thirty seven. Is that the room? Whatever the number is, is the amount of miles in in hundreds of thousands between Earth and the moon. Uh, the the little boy, when he's in the hallway, is wearing the Apollo eleven, uh, T-shirt. He's got a sweater that has the Apollo rocket on it. There's like all sorts of weird shit. That these people cling to that like.

• 2:33:22Speaker 01

  I love stuff like that.

• 2:33:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fascinating. There's a whole documentary on it. The subtext behind The Shining. The Shining is a fucking incredible movie, which by the way, which is really interesting, Stephen King didn't even like. He didn't like that movie, which is so crazy because it was different than his novel. So in his novel, the Jack Nicholson character, I forgot the name, and the Jack Nicholson character. Starts off normal and becomes crazier and crazier. And what he didn't like is that Jack Nicholson is pretty on tilt right away. And seems off from the very beginning and then just descent into madness accelerates very quickly.

• 2:34:02Speaker 01

  That's what I was talking about. Like, there's different ways to tell this that same story and you can feel it when it kind of clicks in, but which is right. The audience doesn't lie.

• 2:34:11Joe Rogan?

  And then Stephen King did his own version of The Shining as a television mini-series.

• 2:34:17Speaker 01

  Did he?

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it wasn't wasn't very good. It wasn't effective.

• 2:34:21Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:34:22Joe Rogan?

  There was something about it. It just didn't work the same way.

• 2:34:25Speaker 01

  That elusive, intangible thing that can't be bought, can't be replicated. Everyone's after it.

• 2:34:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:32Speaker 01

  No one can articulate it.

• 2:34:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:34Speaker 01

  What makes a good actor. Why was Heath Ledger a good actor?

• 2:34:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:39Speaker 01

  And that's another great example of like why those boats are. Superfluous to the everything else.

• 2:34:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, it's all about telling the story, right? And some people, what's going on?

• 2:34:52Speaker 04

  Kubrick's assistant says in an interview in 2013, like a year after the movie came out, that Kubrick would have agreed that 70 to 80% of that movie was pure gibberish. Because he wouldn't be doing stuff like that.

• 2:35:04Joe Rogan?

  Which movie?

• 2:35:05Speaker 04

  Room 237, the one about the.

• 2:35:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that was.

• 2:35:09Speaker 04

  The Shining and all the.

• 2:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but even 80% is too pure gibberish. What does that mean? That means 20% is legit?

• 2:35:17Speaker 04

  I just, I mean, he wouldn't, it's just like here, he wouldn't tell an audience what to think or how to think. And if they came out thinking something different than him, that's fine.

• 2:35:26Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to say, though, because someone saying that, that is their personal assistant, they're not speaking for Kubrick.

• 2:35:32Speaker 04

  Stephen King said the same thing when he saw it. He said he had to turn it off because it was bullshit.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Turn what off?

• 2:35:37Speaker 04

  The movie.

• 2:35:38Joe Rogan?

  The Shining itself?

• 2:35:39Speaker 04

  No, no, no. Room 237, the documentary about the Shining.

• 2:35:42Joe Rogan?

  Right, but Stephen King also didn't like The Shining. You know, these are like people's personal opinions on things. It doesn't mean it's not true. And it's also like Kubrick, in many of his films, did have like hidden subtext and a lot of, he was a fascinating guy, like all, like 2001. 2001 is a fascinating movie. You miss a lot of it when you, you have to like re-watch it over and over again to get what he was trying to say. Like what, what was he doing in that film? Like what was he, there's many, many layers to his films that I, you know, he had his own way of doing it. He might not have done it mathematically with the score the way Christopher Nolan did, but there was something to it.

• 2:36:19Speaker 01

  I shouldn't even say that word, though, because it's, it's, it's just patterns. He's still using patterns. Mathematics is just a language that allows us to articulate the form of those patterns.

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  That said, what Stephen King said and what Kubrick's assistant said also rings true because people try to find patterns in everything, even patterns that don't exist.

• 2:36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, true.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  They always try to find conspiracies that don't exist and patterns that don't exist. There's like a natural inclination that people have to like uncover secrets, like what's the secret behind this? What is he really saying?

• 2:36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What's he really doing?

• 2:36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:58Joe Rogan?

  Are you still gonna make films? Are you more committed to, is it like, do you feel like this thing that you're doing? What is your secret scholar, what is your YouTube page?

• 2:37:09Speaker 01

  Secret Scholar Society is the YouTube channel.

• 2:37:13Joe Rogan?

  Why'd you decide to call it that?

• 2:37:14Speaker 01

  That story I was telling you.

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  That was from, from that, yeah.

• 2:37:16Speaker 01

  There was a, right before, right before the viral video, I was working on a short film. It's, there's a little experimental, I shouldn't call it a short film. It was me with a camera and that music teacher. In like a month, we threw this thing together. It's not a movie, so people love to, cause like, Warren's last movie is like, it's like, dude, it's not, that's not, don't hold that to the standard of like, the other ones you can hold to a standard of a movie, but that one was just an experimental, like me by myself. I would love to keep doing that. Right now, it's about putting food on the table and fighting for the algorithm, keeping the algorithm on my side, which is...

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're unemployed.

• 2:37:55Speaker 01

  Right. And there's potential to teach, but I'm making more doing what I'm doing.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you're teaching by doing that, too. You are.

• 2:38:06Speaker 01

  You can look at it, I guess.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  I do look at it that way, because any kind of really intelligent discourse, where you get to watch it and observe people talking about things, and you've done a lot of really good stuff where you're breaking down interviews and breaking down congressional testimonies and things like that, and the way people are reacting to things and how people are laying stuff out. All that stuff is very educational. And for young people in particular, maybe people that found you through those initial videos, then they'll be able to see how you sort of break down all of these interactions and they'll be able to sort of think that way themselves, like, oh, why does a person say things that way? What are they trying to do? What, why are they appealing to authority?

• 2:38:49Joe Rogan?

  Why, why, why is it important to recognize that this is a pattern to shut down criticism? And then why is it that this is not, this is not necessarily the truth?

• 2:38:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, the art of critical thinking.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:01Speaker 01

  I was kinda thinking like Sherlock Holmes was my, as a kid, my favorite. Fictional character.

• 2:39:07Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:39:07Speaker 01

  And I think it appealed, he was really the first kind of superhero serial, monthly episodes, Strand magazine.

• 2:39:14Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:39:15Speaker 01

  And he has no superpowers, just his mind.

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:39:19Speaker 01

  Which makes us feel like, I could do that if I could just see the world like him.

• 2:39:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:23Speaker 01

  He has nothing I don't have technically.

• 2:39:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:39:26Speaker 01

  And he does it, we're presented the same information. It's just what he does with that information, it makes you feel like you have a potential for that power within you, you just gotta know how to unlock it. So, I was kinda playing with like the art of, that's why the slogan on the channel is the art of critical thinking, it was, his was the science of deduction, but.

• 2:39:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It is an art too, though, because when someone does it really well, it's kinda beautiful. Critical thinking, when you watch like a conversation between two people and they break, there's a, there's an igniting of your, your mind that is kinda beautiful. It's artistic.

• 2:40:05Speaker 01

  Hopefully, hopefully you can sometimes get there.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  No, I think, I think you do get there, you get there for sure, you've gotten there with me. I think, uh, there's a lot of people that do that. And it's that, that kind of critical thinking, people, they gravitate towards it because there's not a lot of it in the world. And especially if you live in, if you exist day to day in a corporate culture, where you're sort of locked in to whatever ideology your company is, and you're trying to make your way up the company ladder, so there's like office politics, and there's a, you know, a certain sort of mentality and narrative that's been distributed through the company, and you're connected to it, like you're very suppressed, and your thinking is very boxed in, and, you know, you're forced to put those blinders on that we talked about earlier. You have to put those on if you wanna move in the company.

• 2:40:50Joe Rogan?

  If you wanna exist, like if you're in an environment that requires you to behave and think a certain way in order to succeed, well, you wanna succeed, so what are the rules of this game I'm playing? Okay. You know, if you're playing poker, you, you have rules, right? If you're playing chess, you have rules. And you can't succeed without following the rules. And that's the case in everything. But oftentimes, in society, when you exist.

• 2:41:15Joe Rogan?

  In a corporate environment or any kind of especially in educational environment, right? If you exist in an academic environment, it was very clear rules. And if you do not follow those rules, you will not succeed. If you go against the people that are in charge, you're gonna like what happened with you? You're gonna get fired, you're gonna get removed. You have to follow the rules if you want to succeed. And people feel very suppressed by that. Because they know that these rules aren't necessarily just. They're not necessarily accurate, they're not objective, they're not reasonable, they're not logical, they're just the rules. People hate the rules when they're just the rules. It makes them.

• 2:41:51Speaker 01

  Especially students.

• 2:41:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially young people, man.

• 2:41:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they can sniff that out so fast.

• 2:41:58Joe Rogan?

  And now there's examples of the rules being bullshit. You know, now because of your show and a bunch of your Jordan Peterson, a bunch of different things that are available now for young people to consume. They can realize like, no, these people that are making these rules are idiots. They're assholes and they might be intelligent, they might have a good education, they might have a lot of information that they can like spit out that makes them seem logical. But they're not looking at things correctly, they're they're captured by a narrative.

• 2:42:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I reading Elon's books like on the airplane, he had that algorithm. It's essentially if there's a regulation, if there's a rule, figure out who's requiring that rule, question it. And I forget the other ones, but it's making it all more efficient, it all stems from just questioning everything.

• 2:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm. That's what's gonna be really interesting about him becoming a part of the Department of Government Efficiency. Like is when if he's gonna apply that to the most inefficient.

• 2:42:58Speaker 01

  I bet he will, cuz he would, it says, right, it's like he would go around preaching this algorithm.

• 2:43:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:43:03Speaker 01

  And he genuinely believed it and it makes logical sense, there's a logical flow. To him and his decision making that's laid out in that biography.

• 2:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But you're also going against a culture that has operated with impunity for so long. And has grown exponentially, like there's more government agencies than there have been years of the government.

• 2:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy. That's crazy. They just keep making new government agencies. And the way to combat that, make another one. Make another government agency that corrects all the government agencies inefficiencies.

• 2:43:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43:42Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be, to me, the Department of Government Efficiency and then Make America Healthy Again Movement, those are the two most fascinating things that are going on simultaneously with the Trump administration. Because I'm so curious, because there's so many hurdles with whatever Bobby Kennedy's gonna have to jump through to make real change. And you're seeing the response to that, like Red Die Number Three getting pulled by the Biden administration, like, hey, motherfuckers, you could have done that a long time ago. You knew that stuff shouldn't have been in food. It's not in food in Canada. You knew that shouldn't have been in food. And you waited until right before Bobby Kennedy got in, where you know he's gonna make it outlawed. You know he's gonna get rid of all that. And you see the resistance to it.

• 2:44:28Joe Rogan?

  You're seeing this resistance to fluoride being removed from the drinking water. Everybody's saying, oh, no, we need fluoride for teeth. Like, brush your fucking teeth, bitch. Let's not put neurotoxic chemicals in everybody's water. The way I describe it, I said, it's like, people are dying of skin cancer. Let's put sunscreen in the apples. Like, no, no, put sunscreen on, motherfucker. Or don't. It's probably bad for you, too. There's a lot of evidence that that's not good for you, that really, like, progressive sun exposure is the way to do it. And the real problem is that no one gets sun exposure, and then you get too much all at once, and that's how you get sunburn.

• 2:45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what he does with education.

• 2:45:05Joe Rogan?

  Boy, good luck.

• 2:45:07Speaker 01

  We need...

• 2:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:08Speaker 01

  That's one thing I miss. I do miss teaching. I miss being in the classroom like that with those kids.

• 2:45:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think you should definitely do more of that, but I'm really happy you're doing what you're doing.

• 2:45:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:45:17Joe Rogan?

  Like I said, when I saw you, I was like, oh, is this young, intelligent guy, super reasonable?

• 2:45:22Speaker 01

  I look younger than I am.

• 2:45:23Joe Rogan?

  How old are you?

• 2:45:24Speaker 01

  Thirty-seven.

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  You're still young. I'm fifty seven. I'm old. I'm allowed to call, you're, you're just a kid.

• 2:45:32Speaker 01

  I wish.

• 2:45:33Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, it's like, it's an important service. It really is. And we need, and there's more people like that now in the public eye than I think has ever been because of YouTube, especially in terms of the impact. Like, what's the most watched video that you have? Like, how many views does it have?

• 2:45:53Speaker 01

  A million.

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Just imagine a lecture that reaches a million people. When has that ever happened?

• 2:46:00Speaker 01

  Peter was talking about this, this Gutenberg Revolution of YouTube. And there's only one other professor, okay, you've got like Eric Weinstein and all the, okay, putting all of them aside, Sam Richardson, School of Communications, is the only, and he's doing it. Every class is streamed live and the university is cool with it. All the students are cool with it. And there's like two hundred students in the auditorium. They come up on stage and he's applying critically, he challenged them on the CEO of Papa John's concept where he got fired for saying the N-word with the context of, that's not a good thing to say. It was just, and it's really interesting to see, and he, his office hours, I got to join him for his office hours and it was live streamed.

• 2:46:42Speaker 01

  There's, that's just using this technology in such a remarkable way. There's so much potential for that in schools and education. But everyone's so afraid because they don't want to put themselves out there. That school was terrified that their name would get out there. They're, they're so used to going through life without any ability for the public to see what's going on because no one would care. First of all, no one cares. And then suddenly there's the potential and it changes your world. And the question is, look, if you're that scared of transparency, you're probably doing something wrong. Like, it's not just what you do, but how you do it.

• 2:47:20Joe Rogan?

  Right. And you should never be scared of discussions.

• 2:47:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:24Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you're an educational institution.

• 2:47:28Joe Rogan?

  You should never be scared of discussions. Like, it's one of the most important things. Yes.

• 2:47:32Speaker 01

  There's, this technology is incredible.

• 2:47:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's nuts. And it never existed before. And there's a lot of resistance because there's been gatekeepers to information that have existed for the longest time and it made the distribution of propaganda much more easy.

• 2:47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:51Joe Rogan?

  Much, much easier and much more effective.

• 2:47:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:53Joe Rogan?

  And now that doesn't work anymore. Because these things, like this, is bigger than all those things.

• 2:47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:00Joe Rogan?

  Why? Because it's not full of shit. It's that simple.

• 2:48:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:48:04Joe Rogan?

  Interesting conversations from people that aren't full of shit.

• 2:48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:08Joe Rogan?

  Turns out that's what people actually want. They've just been dumped on with nonsense for so long that people have got accustomed to thinking, no, that's, that's what you're supposed to get. You're supposed to get a, you know, late night, late night talk show host version of what's happening in politics. That's what you're supposed to get.

• 2:48:23Speaker 01

  You need people with integrity. So I would, I would say thank you for having the integrity to... How many people, when presented with Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris, to do that interview to be like, no, we're gonna do it for real. If we're gonna do, I'll do it.

• 2:48:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:39Speaker 01

  It's like, there's just so many other people would have just compromised.

• 2:48:44Joe Rogan?

  I thought about it. I thought about, I was sitting around like, how do I do it?

• 2:48:47Speaker 01

  Sure, that was tough.

• 2:48:48Joe Rogan?

  I didn't know... There's a, there's a concept in jujitsu that the Gracies came up with about cooking someone. And the idea is like, someone can spaz out in the beginning, they can be real strong and pull out of submissions, but eventually, I'm gonna cook them. Eventually, I'm gonna keep hitting my moves till I'm gonna get to a dominant position. They're gonna get tired and I'm gonna cook them and then I'm gonna submit them. And you need time to do that. If you had, if Hoist Gracie had a jujitsu match with a giant bodybuilder and the match was only 10 seconds long, he might not be able to get the guy in 10 seconds. He doesn't have enough time. But if you give Hoist Gracie an hour... That guy's gonna get cooked.

• 2:49:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:49:30Joe Rogan?

  And the thing about a conversation like with the Kamala Harris thing was like, I genuinely just wanted to talk to her. I thought I could like have a real conversation. I've seen her be really funny. This is like really funny video of her meeting her uh her uh mother-in-law and father-in-law for the first time. And that the woman grabs her face, she's, "Oh, look at you." Like Doug Emhoff's mom grabs her face, "You're beaut-" like it was really funny, like she's laughing hard, but she's laughing like it's authentic. It's a really fun- see if you can find it. It's very funny.

• 2:50:04Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 2:50:04Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, "That person's in there." And that person is dealing with incredible pressure of being in front of millions of people. They're all scrutinizing every word she says, and that pressure causes people to bumble their words and say things in cycles because they're trying to dismount and they don't know how to. Maybe they're not the best public speaker, maybe not the most articulate at forming sentences, but they have good ideas. And you gotta get those people comfortable. You gotta find out what what what is in there. And so my thought was like, there was a few things they didn't want to talk about. They initially didn't want to talk about internet censorship, but then they changed their mind and did want to talk about it, which I thought was interesting. Like they had, maybe they had a solution.

• 2:50:49Joe Rogan?

  They said, "If he throws this at you, you're gonna say this." I'm like, "Okay, we got it. Okay, let's talk about, tell him we want to talk about internet censorship." They didn't want to talk about the legalization of marijuana, but that was probably because of her prosecute prosecutorial record. You know, she prosecuted a lot of people for marijuana crimes. So I was like, "Okay, we don't have to talk about those things. I'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. I don't care. I just want to get to you. And you give me three hours, I'll find out who you are. We could talk about nature, we could talk about the environment, we could talk about space, we could talk about, do you believe in reincarnation? Like I'll get to who you are. I want to get to who you are. I gotta cook you."

• 2:51:26Speaker 01

  Why wouldn't she do that?

• 2:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Because she didn't want to get cooked.

• 2:51:30Joe Rogan?

  Because it's scary, because you could fucking bumble it, you could fuck up. You know, or you could be Trump, where he comes in, he doesn't give a fuck. There's no discussion whatsoever about topics, he'll talk about anything. And just talk, and that guy would talk for three fucking hours, no problem at all. Had no problems, didn't ask to edit it, she, they wanted to know whether they had editing control, they wanted to be able to edit things out. Like if she did bumble, which is Trump's big lawsuit with CBS, because of 60 Minutes. Because they edited her answers that made her seem like she had a more intelligent answer. Which is essentially election interference.

• 2:52:07Speaker 01

  In the debate?

• 2:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, an interview. So there was a Kamala Harris interview, and Trump sued. And there's a lawsuit that's still going on, right now, it is CBS, correct?

• 2:52:19Speaker 01

  What were his ground?

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  Because they changed her answer, so someone fucked up and released, like, a teaser of the conversation, and in the teaser, she was bumbling and fumbling to answer this question. And in the actual show on CBS, they had edited that and put in a completely different answer to something else as the answer to this question, that seemed more logical and made more sense, it was much more succinct and short. And he was saying, like, "You fucking idiots, like, you did this, you released it on video on the internet first, and then you had a different version on CBS, do you think people don't remember something that was just released, like, two days ago? As like a preview to this thing?"

• 2:53:06Joe Rogan?

  But in between the time that the video, his, this is Trump's argument. "In between the time the video was released on the internet and the response that it got, all the negativity and all the criticism that it got, and all the backlash to how she responded to that question, they edited it and changed the response." And so he's suing. And he's got a point. He's got a real point because you shouldn't allow them to edit it and make it look like it was better than it really was. If this is, I mean, this is not just a conversation where someone fucked up about, they made a flub and they said, oh, can you take that out? No, this is like a response to like critical policy issues that are going to affect the entire country if you run into president. Like, if you become president, do you know how to address a situation? Do you have a plan?

• 2:53:51Joe Rogan?

  Do you, do you know what this problem is? And do you have an actual solution? And if you don't, and if you're kind of bumbling around your words, people should be able to see that. Because that's one of the things that we're deciding this election on. So for someone like her that's had those kind of experiences where she said the wrong thing and done the, and it said things like, God, I wish I had a chance to reconsider that, I would have said it differently. Because you just, that thing that you say, even if it's under a high pressure situation, like an interview on CBS, that high pressure situation that caused you to fumble, now people are going to say, that is your opinion, period. This is your perspective, period, where meanwhile, if she had time to consider that question

• 2:54:32Joe Rogan?

  and come up with a logical answer and then like rehearse that logical answer and been ready, she might have done a much better job. So

• 2:54:42Joe Rogan?

  that's the fear of not having any power over editing because in a three hour conversation, you can't really prepare. I think they did think they had a preparation. The only thing that makes sense to me is why they would just change their tune on internet censorship, that they wanted to talk about that. They must have had some sort of logical reason why a certain amount of censorship is important because you want to protect against misinformation, disinformation and hate speech. And so this was something that, uh, Tim Walz was saying openly when he was on the campaign trail. Is that free speech does not include hate speech.

• 2:55:21Joe Rogan?

  But it does.

• 2:55:21Speaker 01

  How do you define hate speech?

• 2:55:23Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly, because your definition of hate speech might just be misgendering Caitlyn Jenner. That might be hate speech, you know, so if you're talking about Bruce Jenner winning the decathlon, what are we saying if you can't say Bruce Jenner? Because if you, you know, if you want to look at the reality of this biological male who wins the Olympics as a male and then transitions to becoming a woman, if you're telling me that I can no longer discuss the fact that this was a biological male with a different name and it's hate speech, well, you've essentially put the handcuffs on reality.

• 2:55:58Speaker 01

  Churchill, the quote, my favorite Churchill quote, "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others."

• 2:56:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a great quote.

• 2:56:05Speaker 01

  And I use that if anyone, if anyone tries to get into the free speech debate, I do think the approach that Elon's using on X, short of the law, freedom of speech, short of the law, we already have that objective line, that framework, we know when it's crossed, that's what the law is there for, we don't need any other subjective interpretations of what is hate speech, what's happening in England. It doesn't mean that there's not potential for someone to misuse it, same way, democracy is going to end in inequality in certain areas, you're gonna have inequality no matter what we do, because there's gonna be in capitalism. Capitalism is the worst economic approach except every other one.

• 2:56:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:56:44Speaker 01

  There's problems to it.

• 2:56:45Joe Rogan?

  That's right, that's right.

• 2:56:47Speaker 01

  People love when they debate you, they point out these little flaws, well, here's an anecdote of how hate speech was used, here's a potential, of course, there's gonna be potential flaws, but it doesn't mean you have a better alternative. What is your alternative solution?

• 2:57:01Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly. Well, listen, man, I really enjoyed talking to you, I really enjoy what you're doing, I appreciate you and thank you for being here. Tell everybody again, it's Secret Scholars Society.

• 2:57:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, Warren Smith dash Secret Scholars Society.

• 2:57:16Joe Rogan?

  On YouTube?

• 2:57:18Speaker 01

  On YouTube.

• 2:57:19Joe Rogan?

  And that's the only thing you're using currently?

• 2:57:21Speaker 01

  I'm on X, it's WTSmith17 for some reason.

• 2:57:27Joe Rogan?

  Secret Scholars is the handle on YouTube and on Patreon. You have a Secret Scholars thing.

• 2:57:34Speaker 01

  Oh, that's like, yeah, if you go to Patreon, you can watch behind the scenes and exclusive.

• 2:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Perfect.

• 2:57:39Speaker 01

  You know.

• 2:57:40Joe Rogan?

  Love Patreon. I love what they do. Thank you very much.

• 2:57:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:57:43Joe Rogan?

  We appreciate you.

• 2:57:43Speaker 01

  I really appreciate it.

• 2:57:44Joe Rogan?

  It was awesome.

• 2:57:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:57:45Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:58:00Speaker 00

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