#480: Rahul Rana on Moonshot Ideas

Rahul Rana is an Associate at Lux Capital and the Author of “Making Moonshots." In this conversation, we discuss what a moonshot is, why they are important, how the best entrepreneurs go after moonshots, and why iterative progress in science and technology is not enough. ======================= Exodus is an absolute game changer in the crypto wallet space, and we’ve teamed up to offer an exclusive discount for you, as listeners of the podcast. Sign up for Exodus today using my promo code Exodus.io/pomp. This is a no brainer for both newcomers and crypto heavyweights - go sign up today. ======================= With over 5 Million users, Crypto.com is the easiest way to buy, and sell over 90 cryptocurrencies. Download the app at Crypto.com and get $25 with my code: POMP. When it’s time to spend your crypto, nothing beats the Crypto.com Visa Card, which pays you up to 8% back instantly, with no annual, or monthly fees to worry about! Get $25 when you download the Crypto.com App today using the code “POMP” ======================= Download the top-rated DraftKings Sportsbook app NOW and use promo code POMP when you sign up to get one hundred to one odds on any football game THIS WEEKEND. That’s code POMP for new players to get a shot at one hundred dollars on any football action this weekend.… for a limited time, only at DraftKings Sportsbook! =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Raoul Rana is an associate at Lux Capital and the author of Making Moonshots. In this conversation, we discuss what a moonshot is, why they are important, how the best entrepreneurs go after moonshots, and why iterative progress in science and technology is not enough. I really enjoyed this conversation with Raoul, and I hope you do as well. But before we get into this episode, let's talk about our sponsors. First up is Exodus.io, E-X-O-D-U-S. That's right, I can spell Exodus.io. They're one of the most popular cryptocurrency wallets

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:23Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:04Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:15Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:00Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:36Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's going on, guys? Bang, bang. I've got Raul here. Thank you so much for doing this, sir. Awesome. Thank you.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:09Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Now, I feel weird calling you sir, given that you are in college. But that's a good start for us. Let's just jump into your background. You wrote this book, Making Moonshots. But before we get into the book, just tell us kind of where did you grow up? And what was the kind of things that you did before you actually wrote the book?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. Awesome. So basically grew up my, I've lived my entire life in in central Jersey. I go currently go to Rutgers. I'm studying finance and astrophysics. Actually, I'm a sophomore. But yeah, basically, you know, my journey into, you know, before before I got to my book and everything. So my dad, my entire life, he's worked at Bell Labs, right? So, you know, sure, all the tech people out there know like how, you know, innovative and breakthrough Bell Labs was in the past century. So that was basically my childhood, right? I go to all the labs, right? See all the, you know, the bronze plaques on, you know, the famous scientists and the Nobel Prize on the inventions. I became super obsessed with that so early on. And, you know, it was kind of funny. Once I hit high school, I actually just blocked off all my curiosity for science and tech and just felt like the business and sort of the finance crowd and everything.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  And that was basically what I did for like four years. I actually went to a business administration magnet program. I said for four years, right? I was always, I was doing all things like business and, you know, sort of like non-technical stuff. You know, right? Sales, operations, marketing, you know, like, you know, focusing on all that stuff. And then got to college, thought I wanted to do investment banking. And I was just like, I don't know if this is for me, right? And actually, it's funny, it's like recruiting season is like now for for internships. So I'm still determining like, do I go, you know, full force into that or not? But nonetheless, I realized like, all right, like I, my, my, my truest passion is sort of, you know, line, you know, science, tech, right? Deep tech, all that is sort of, you know, research heavy things. And I was like, all right, like, how do I combine that with finance? And, you know, I just thought, you know, venture capital, so doing deep tech VC was just like the the perfect sort of combination.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  And and then specifically, like, if I could be in this position where I could not only, you know, invest and support into moonshot companies or we're going to deep tech companies, but also build them, sort of, you know, incubate them in-house. That would be just like the coolest job ever, right? Just like, you know, why solve one problem when you can solve multiple ones? So that was basically just like, you know, how my journey started, my passion started there. So that was around, you know, freshman year, first semester and then. I was just like, all right, I want to do something bold. Like, I have all this energy. Like, what do I do with it? And again, like, I don't know if it was just the universe looking out for me, serendipity, or luck, or fortune, but just like, I came across this one, uh, one of my mentors who eventually brought me on the book writing process. So I met him on LinkedIn. Actually, it was kind of funny. Like, I, I, I just, you know, struck up a conversation with him.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  And he was like, oh, like, you know, he, he, he likes to mentor, you know, typically professionals, not, not, not typically students, but just like, you know, he likes to mentor people in writing books. I think it's just like a passion of his. So I was like, hey, like, again, I have all this passion. I have all this energy. Like, I know I'm, by no means I'm an expert, but like, I want to become an expert. And he was just like, all right, like, you know, he took, he took that chance on me and that, you know, I, I ran with it. So started writing the book exactly one year ago, actually, January 2020. And, and, and yes, the rest was history. It was just like, I sort of, it was kind of funny. Like, I had this, like, you know, dual mandate, right? I had to not only improve my writing craft, right? I, I wanted to be like an, an actual book, right? Not just like, you know, some sort of like side project, rubber. Wanted to be a really, really good book. And also I had to become an expert, right?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  So, you know, right, 12, 13 hours a day, just again, putting in the research and stuff, you know, doing tons and tons of interviews. I had to master that cold email, you know, sort of strategy, because, you know, I was talking to all these, you know, big time VCs and founders and whatnot. And, you know, here I was a freshman in college. So it's kind of funny. And then, um, yeah, again, yeah, the rest is history. I just made the most of like, uh, COVID and everything, you know, being at home and what I had all the time in the world. So, yeah, and then, yeah.

• 7:40Anthony Pompliano?

  When, when you start writing the book, uh, how long did it take? And kind of what was the research process, process like to write this book, making moonshots?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. So, um, the research process was basically, you know, I had to really, really improve my content and think that was probably the biggest thing. You know, look where others aren't, right? Like, I had to do a lot of, you know, I did like a lot of like profiles onto, you know, some of the moonshot companies out there that, you know, really sort of inspire me. And, you know, sort of had to formulate, you know, solid like thesis and everything. And, and it made like a solid outline of like, what, what actually do I want to, you know, put forth? And basically, you know, my reasoning behind, you know, moonshots and whatever is just like, you know, these are really like the companies that actually, you know, have some solid impact in the world. But not only that, but they're also, you know, financially stable, right? They're, they're solid businesses. And I just think it's just this, it's, it's heroic at the end of the day. And I just really, I'm, you know, inspired by all. These sorts of, you know, moonshot companies and, um, you know, I, I took sort of like a multifaceted approach, right?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  I didn't want to write just, you know, another boring, you know, management book or business book or whatever. I, I really wanted, you know, something dynamic. So the way I went about my research, um, you know, as, as I told before, right? So I focused on, right, the psychology, right, the mindset of these, you know, moonshot founders, right? The philosophies that they, that they sort of, you know, um, uh, that they, that they use and take in their mental models and so forth. And then also your strategies, right? How to get sort of started on this, you know, moonshot sort of journey? And, and also sort of, you know, end with like the, the ecosystem, right? How can we improve government, education, startups, academia, um, VC and whatnot? And, and, you know, sort of how all they interact and stuff. And so, you know, I, I tried to take like a different sort of approach to, you know, companies and, and, and startups and whatnot. So, um, you know, did deep, deep sort of research into those, tons of deep dives.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Um, a lot of, yeah, I include a lot of like, um, you know, sort of minor sort of small case studies of, you know, as examples in my book and whatnot. So I did a lot of, you know, things for that. But then I think like the biggest thing was honestly the interviews, um, tons of, I think I did around like a hundred or so interviews of, you know, all the best sort of, uh, VCs and, and, and, and founders and all that. I talked to some awesome people and it was like really cool, just like, you know, being this outsider, honestly, again, college freshman, right? Like not, not at the, like a target school or whatever, but just like, you know, I, I got, you know, 30 minutes to an hour with these awesome people. And, and that was probably the most sort of impactful things in terms of research because got some awesome stories, awesome thoughts and so forth. So, yeah.

• 9:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Who, who are the people that, uh, were like the most, um, kind of like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm talking to this person in the book?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, of course. So, um, I think the go-to answer would obviously be Josh Wolfe. Um, I interviewed him for a book. He ended up hiring me, you know, a couple of months after. So that was really cool. Um, just like Lux Capital and, you know, there's like, there's like a few VC firms out there, right? Like, you know, Lux Capital, you know, Social Capital, eight VC coastal, they, they all was like really top tier deep tech funds. Like they're just so inspiring to me. I absolutely love what they do. So it was really cool. Like I, I spoke to a couple of people at those, at those various firms and whatnot. And yeah, I would say, yeah, the, the go-to answer is definitely Josh Wolfe. Um, cause you know, he's, he's, he's high up there in the deep tech world, right? Everyone knows him and I was just like, wow, like pretty cool to get a, get a, get a call with him. So, yeah.

• 10:35Anthony Pompliano?

  So let's talk a little bit about the idea of a moonshot versus like incremental, uh, progress of technology and science. Why are moonshots so important?

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. So again, at the end of the day, there's so many aspects. I mean, the way I sort of consider it is like, all right, like, there's so many, you know, there's so many, you know, different random companies out there, right? You maybe want to call them shallow tech and normal companies, like whatever you want to call them. That's great and all, but like, I feel like we're sort of lacking in like, you know, the people who are actually solving like, you know, really, really big problems in the world, right? Everything from space to, you know, cancer to like the oceans and whatnot. And then, you know, rebuilding sort of, you know, infrastructure and then whatever may be, right? There's poverty, homelessness, food scarcity. I mean, you name it. There's so much out there, right? And it's just like, I really just wanted to, you know, create sort of like, you know, it's like one soft cover. Really, you know, this piece of literature on like how anyone can actually, you know,

• 11:28Speaker 02

  make, you know, said, you know, solve said problem or whatever may be like, you know, by means of, you know, startups and whatnot. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's just like, they're so heroic to me, right? They're so like, you know, like they actually change the course of humanity and, you know, put us back on this, like, you know, this sort of, you know, this rate of scientific and technological progress. I love sort of, you know, thinking about progress and whatnot as a whole, sort of as the ecosystem, right? You know, as like, as like humankind and whatnot. And again, like these are the companies or the projects or, you know, the organizations that actually, you know, push forth humanity like in the sort of, you know, track that we're on. You know, you have everything from, right, the Apollo missions, right, the original moon shot, that's where the term came, that came about. So, you know, everything from, you know, the policy, right?

• 12:12Speaker 02

  So, you know, you have all these, you know, government projects, right, the era of big science back in, you know, the past century, but then you have, you know, nowadays, right? Literally like, you know, single companies, right? Or, you know, people like Elon Musk. But, you know, there's a lot of other people that like Elon that don't have the media presence, but are doing, you know, such amazing things. So again, like, it's just like this inspiring sort of, you know, empowering sort of thing that people go on. And I just want to, you know, create literature on how anyone can do so. So, yeah.

• 12:40Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you think through this, I know there's a part of the book that basically covers what government, what educational institutions, you know, kind of the environment components and the investment side can do to increase the number of moonshots. Walk through like what you learned there. Why are there not more moonshots and what can we do to increase the amount of moonshots?

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. So, yeah, I love thinking about it on an ecosystem level. So, I mean, for example, right, like in terms of government, um, you know, so like, you know, one of the sort of aspects of, you know, making, you know, a moonshot, a moonshot, right? So there's a lot of sort of, um, interaction between, right, the private and public sector, right? So you got, you know, startups, you got academia, you got, you know, VC funding, and you also have the government, um, right? The original sort of, you know, policy missions, right? That's what it was that, right? This awesome collaboration between, you know, all things private and all things public and stuff. So, you know, in terms of government, I mean, I feel like there's a lot of sort of systemic sort of reasons why we don't pursue moonshots, right? Like for, for, for an example, right? Politicians, for example, right? Two years, four years, and six years, right? Six years for senators, right?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  They're only thinking in terms of, right, two, four, and six years, right? Representatives, presidents, and then senators and whatnot. So if you think about it, like, why would they care about a 10-year sort of, you know, project or some like really, you know, probably going to fail, a risky sort of, you know, breakthrough or whatever it may be, or, you know, putting, putting, you know, funding or attention or whatever may be, or a policy around such a, such a topic that probably won't even happen in sort of, you know, their sort of, you know, um, you know, them being, you know, the politician that they are and whatnot. So, again, I just think there's so many sort of ways in which the government is just like not fundamentally like, you know, thinking in the long term, right? So that's like one thing, really. That's like one thing we could fix. Also, you know, there's things like, you know, special interests and whatnot.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  I mean, like, um, in, in, in, in the recent sort of election, one thing, one thing I saw, you know, in regards to the debates, for example, the, the debate around, you know, sort of oil, gas, and, and things like that versus clean energy, right? Again, like, it's, it's, what's so interesting to me is that there's a lot of, you know, special interests that are, um, you know, holding us back in terms of our energy and whatnot. And again, it makes sense, right? People's livelihoods depend on, and, you know, oil and gas and whatnot. But then on the other hand, right, you have Nuclear energy, right? You have clean energy and all things like, you know, climate and whatnot and fusion even like there's like so many things that we could do that are much more cleaner, much more sustainable. But at the end of the day, like it's it's so, you know, heavily politicized, right? There it's so complex.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  And again, that that's just another right. Oh, that's another thing, right? Hyperpolarization and stuff like that, I think fundamentally is is is stopping sort of, you know, moonshots from happening and so forth. So, you know, there's I can go on and on, but nonetheless, like what I what I realized in terms of government education, whatnot, it really comes down to three things, right? There's the, you know, the these sort of the social infrastructure, social attitude and also social incentives, right? I think if we could, you know, focus on those three things, right, that that could really create this, it's really this ecosystem that's really conducive to these, you know, big time, sort of, you know, um, R and D heavy projects and whatnot. So, um, so yeah, yeah. So if that answers your question.

• 15:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Walk me through the anatomy of a moonshot in the sense of if you want to be successful with a moonshot, what are the things that need to go into it in terms of the team, the vision, capital, discipline, like just walk me through that?

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it it all starts with, you know, again, it all starts with the team and everything and sort of, you know, having this this this long term, sort of, you know, 10, 15 year vision about, you know, what what what sort of this preferred future and and how can we get to that? So, um, you know, it starts with this really, really, you know, ambitious, bold, you know, dreaming big sort of vision and whatnot. And again, again, you have to have the right team and everything. But one thing I found interesting, right? In regards to the team, there's a lot of moonshots out there that are not done by credentialed experts. And I realized like, all right, like, maybe you don't, you don't need like a PhD, right? To solve some sort of, you know, science heavy project, right? You don't need some, you know, um, formal credentials or whatever. There's, you know, even like Elon Musk, where well, like he only has like a bachelor's degree, bachelor's degree in like, what, like physics, I think, and econ or whatever. And look at him, right?

• 16:44Speaker 02

  So again, he's just, you know, one example, the the easy example I can think of. But, you know, that's one thing, right? So, you know, building, building like a solid, solid team, but not necessarily needing, you know, credentialed experts and whatnot. I I thought that was really interesting and and how it is sort of like the barrier. To actually, you know, make such a, you know, big sort of impact or a big sort of company or whatever is actually following. So that's really cool. So nonetheless, like, yeah, you have the, you have the team and everything, right? Um, you know, on- once you have the team, right? Taking advantage of the, of the ecosystem, as I mentioned before, right? You know, VC funding and whatnot, you know, storytelling is a big thing, right? Um, again, the, the probably like the go-to sort of story or example of like, you know, storytelling, right, is like Theranos, for example, right? Again, it was a moonshot company and, and it was just like, you know,

• 17:27Speaker 02

  grand sort of vision, but at the end, they, they, I think they're, the, the way they sort of, you know, tricked, you know, investors and then the general public is that they over-story told, right? They were really, really good storytellers and whatnot. And again, you, you have to sort of, you know, attract capital or you have to attract talent. You have to do all these things and, and to do so, like, you need to be good storytellers. But, you know, not, not too much to the point of like, you know, like Theranos level, but nonetheless, like, you have to be good at that and, and, you know, everything like that. So, you know, there, there's, you know, all things sort of, um, you know, storytelling, right? Working with, you know, the bleeding edge of all, you know, technology and whatever, the cutting edges of, of, of science and technology, right? Deep tech is just, you know, that's the core of what a moonshot is, right? Again, like, as I mentioned before, right, there's three things in the moonshot, right? There's a deep tech sort of, you know, advanced

• 18:10Speaker 02

  science, technology, right, frontier tech, emerging tech, all those synonyms, right? You got, um, the, the radical solution, right? Sort of, you know, sort of, you know, something that's disruptive, something that's never done before. I'm saying this, you know, really radical, bold, ambitious, right? All these synonyms and whatnot. And then, um, you know, three, and, and last, right, solving is really big, uh, problem in the world, having, having an actual sort of, yeah, global impact and impacting a million to five billion of people. So, you know, in regards to that, that sort of three-part framework, it's, it's sort of, again, building a company around those three things and, um, you know,

• 18:40Speaker 02

  one, right, again, solving, solving a big problem, right? Once, once you get, you know, those barriers down, once you, you know, hired a, hired a right team, right, with right, right vision and whatnot. All right, you know, then, then you go to, you know, the whole commercialization process. So that's a whole other thing, right? Again, um, you know, that, that's where sort of academia and startups sort of, you know, interact with. And then, you know, what, then you go to next stage, right, VC funding, right? So it's, so, you know, being a solid storyteller and, you know, that whole process and then, you know, working with like, you know, the government, for example, and, and, you know, all the grants that they give and, and, and sort of all the resources that they have and, Yeah, then then it just becomes right like a, you know, a typical sort of startup, right? Typical sort of company and you know, all the, all the stuff that comes with that. So basically, in regards like my book, I, I basically say like, all right, like I'm going to tell you everything that comes right before actually sort of scaling a startup, right?

• 19:24Speaker 02

  I'm not one to speak on, you know, how to, how to run a company, right? I, I've never done that, but nonetheless, like in regards to actually getting started on the process, that's sort of, you know, how I, how I think about it.

• 19:33Anthony Pompliano?

  What are the areas from a moonshot perspective that you think are really interesting? Like, if you were to start a company today, what areas would you look at to create the next moonshot?

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. Space, space, again, specifically the easiest sort of go to answer. I absolutely love that. Um, I was like, if I could choose.

• 19:50Anthony Pompliano?

  What part of space though? Space is space, right? So like, what, what part of space?

• 19:55Speaker 02

  All right. So maybe you've heard of it right recently, like part of space, right? That one of my favorite companies ever. It's just, you know, sort of, you know, lower earth orbit manufacturing, one like that's, that's like, again, that's a moonshot, right? And it's so inspiring and, you know, I think one thing that's really, that would really be cool is, is if, is if someone can sort of lay the infrastructure for, um, you know, space exploration, right? Sort of, you know, um, sort of, you know, mega scale engineer or whatever, like, you know, that's things that go in orbit, right? That can, you know, bring us to, you know, moon and to Mars and, you know, to hopefully other planets in the future, right? So someone who's like, you know, laying the infrastructure for things in space and, and further exploration, there's like some really cool things, right? Like I've seen, um, you know, at my time at Lux, for example, like I've, I've seen like one company's do like, like orbital transfer vehicles, right?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  So, you know, the, the way to get things actually to space and, you know, from whatever factories in space or whatever it may be, or another company I, I've seen really, really cool. They're doing like lunar manufacturing, like that's insane, right? Like, like how cool is that, right? Like, again, that's why I just love moonshots. It's just like so like, again, inspiring, right? It's so like amazing, like, like lunar manufacturing, but like, I, you would think it's like some like bold, probably impossible thing, but I was talking to the founder and he's like, no, he's like serious about it. Like, like there's like actual like legitimate research around it. It's, it's maybe, you know, maybe it's going to take like in 15 years or so. Like it's like, I also think it's going to happen. So it's like really, really cool. So, you know, and anything that's sort of, you know, deep space. Like I, I absolutely love looking at all that.

• 21:19Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think through this, uh, what do you want to do with your career? Like you wrote the book, you're working with Josh in Hot Lux and Josh is fantastic. And not only does he have a great track record, but he's also a fantastic human being. What do you want to do? Do you want to build a company? Do you want to be an investor? Do you want to write more books? Do you want, are you just crossing your fingers, hoping you graduate college? I got, what's your goal?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  I mean, to your point, yes, absolutely. But um, yeah, so in terms of, you know, what I want to do next. So I absolutely love. So, you know, I mentioned this before, but like, I absolutely love the the model of VC firms that, you know, not only invest, but they also build in-house or they incubate in-house. Absolutely love that. I I definitely want to be in, you know, may maybe, I don't know, like a moonshot venture studio or whatever, maybe just in a position where I could, you know, not only, you know, invest in support, but also build multiple ones like I I am so many problems like I just want to solve them all like, I don't know. I'll do that somehow. We'll see what happens. But, you know, there's that. But also, like, you know, down the line, like, honestly, like, like, maybe even, you know, starting the next, you know, Bell Labs or next, you know, Xerox PARC or whatever may be like all these things that are, you know, sort of rooted in in history and whatnot. Like, I want to get back to sort of, you know,

• 22:22Speaker 02

  put us back on track in terms of, you know, scientific and technological progress. So a- anything to anything to support that, by all means, I'd absolutely love to do it. And, you know, I don't know, like, what that means, you know, government, right? Working in the education space, like even like entertainment, that's actually one thing, one thing that's really, really cool. Like, if you think about it, like, you know, the so the like some like movies, for example, really Social Network, The Martian, right? All these movies that really inspires like the general public, like, if we could just like make science cool in some way possible, and that that's like my life school, right? So make science cool, right? Like, get get everyone's, you know, attention in it and stuff. And then, yeah, so we'll see how I do that. I'm not too sure at the moment, but yeah.

• 22:59Anthony Pompliano?

  I love. Hey, listen, don't don't ever count on any dream. I love it. All right. So people can go where to Amazon and they can buy the book Making Moonshots. They can learn all about kind of the anatomy of a moonshot and and everything, the environment to to really many, many of the conversations you had with some of the people who are spend the most time on this. I ask everyone three questions before I end, and then you get to ask me one question. The first is, what's the most important book you ever read? You can't say your own book. So what?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, of course. So there's one book. It's called, it's called Letting Go. Um, I think it's by Richard Dawkins, if I'm not mistaken, but um, he's like a psychologist and whatnot. And again, like, like this book, like, you know, it's all about sort of, you know, letting go, like sort of surrender in regards like your, your emotions and whatnot. And, you know, sort of getting through whatever hardships that you're, you know, dealing with. And honestly, like, like that book was, I, I, I, I read that book while I was reading my book, sort of, um, sorry, when I was writing my book, um, in terms of like, there's so many, you know, tough days, right? You know, blood, sweat and tears I put into this book. And a lot of days, you know, I'd burn out, right? A lot of days I'd sort of, you know, just like, you know, like break down and have, have like a mental breakdown. And I'd read this book, right? It's called Letting Go. Absolutely amazing. Just like, you know, the, the way he sort of, um, uh, writes about, you know, anger and, and, and, and, you know, burnout and

• 24:15Speaker 02

  like, you know, love and, and happiness and whatever it may be, just like all sorts of emotions and stuff. So I honestly love that book. I'd recommend it to anyone. So, yeah.

• 24:22Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a great suggestion. Second question is about your sleep schedule. You're in college, so I'm assuming you don't sleep too much. I used to be the same way, but one, is that accurate? Are you not sleeping that much? And two, uh, any rituals or anything you do around sleep?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. So actually upon viewing some of your, your podcast episodes, I, I have been thinking about it more. Um, I also I see, you know, like, like the one company like Eight Sleep or something. I see a lot of people raving about that.

• 24:46Anthony Pompliano?

  That's the sponsor, man. Yes. Oh, I told, I told Mateo, the CEO, I said, listen, I gotta stop asking this question at some point because everyone just keeps telling me, I got an eight sleep. I already own one. It's amazing. Like, this is garbage. It's not fun when you date sleep.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. Like everyone's, everyone's just so hyped about it. I, I kind of want to try it, but.

• 25:07Anthony Pompliano?

  It's amazing. It really is amazing. I sleep on it every night. Uh, it's like, it's like thermal regulation. So basically just, uh, it chills the bed. Um, and so, you know, as you know, uh, if you sleep in a colder environment, you get better, uh, deep sleep. Uh, I mean, just wake up more refreshed. So I hate the fact that Mateo is the one who, uh, always is, uh, sleeping so well because I feel guilty when I'm around if I haven't slept, but other than that.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  I no, I absolutely know. Like, yeah, like, some days is just tough, right? Like, like, you know, I'm I'm doing full time at Lux, full time student, you know, was working on this book last semester. So it was definitely tough to, you know, get get enough sleep in. But um, now I I realize like, I, you know, I'm that what's a uh, I was giving that one book, um, like, Why We Sleep or something.

• 25:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Matthew Walker.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm just like, all right, like, I I need to focus on this, you know, actually, like, I want to be healthy and whatnot. So it's it's starting sort of, you know, like, um, me being more intentional around it, right? Like, you know, cutting out sugars, right? Before, like, you know, at a certain time or or stopping at a certain time, right? The temperature definitely, like, I've been trying to do that. Um, not on a thermometer, really, but, you know, typically, like, you know, AC and heater and whatnot. But, you know, all these things, I'm slowly getting there. Yeah.

• 26:19Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. Uh, last question, you get asked me one, aliens, if you're so obsessed with space, are aliens real or no? You believe?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. Um, I I actually.

• 26:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Hundred percent? You think that they have, like, come to Earth?

• 26:32Speaker 02

  I think they've been here already. I'm not even joking. So, all right, so, one thing, and and actually, um, I know on your interview with with Mike Solan, right? He he he said that, you know, there's evidence of, you know, UFOs, but he's neutral on aliens. I think because there are UFOs, aliens exist. And and what I what I mean by that. So, all right, so I was actually talking to one one of my friends, he's a UFO researcher, not, you know, not as conspiracy theorists, but like, actually, like, he worked for, you know, NORAD, or he worked for Congress and whatnot, in terms of, you know, UFO research and whatnot. So he's, you know, pretty high up there. And he was talking, so like, all right, so he told me this one story, and, um, I'm sure, have you you seen those, you know, the the those, like, leaked videos from, like, the Navy, for example, right? Yep. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people saw that, right? So he was telling me this the story of that. And I was just like, wait, so, um, basically, you know, how how that that sort of instance went is that, like, all right, like, they were, you know, tracking the the sort of, you know, UFO flying throughout the air and whatnot.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  And the it was on, like, a Navy ship, or he was saying, and and the person was running a sonar, like radar or something, I forgot what. Um, he noticed that this sort of UFO, it sort of violated all sort of everything that we know about physics, right? It it was just not in line with what we know. And, you know, it was going from, you know, like, like Mach 31 or Mach 32, like, you know, 31 or however many times, you know, is this the the speed of, you know, uh, sound and whatnot, or or lighter, I'm mixing it up. But nonetheless, like, you know, it's going this crazy speed, you know, it's making all all these turns that are just physically impossible. And I was just like, all right, like. That's great. It's all well documented. It's not like, you know, random sort of conspiracy theories. But like, all right, like if it's doing that and that's not humanly possible, like what's the other sort of, you know, sort of

• 28:10Speaker 02

  explanation of that? Like, I think, I feel like that's like pretty clear. Like, obviously, there is no evidence of, you know, aliens actually, you know, existing, but nonetheless, like, it's not human. So if it's not human, what else can it be? That's sort of how I think about it. So, so yeah.

• 28:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Maybe it's a new version of a dinosaur. Who knows?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Who knows? I'm pretty cool.

• 28:29Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. All right. What question you got for me to, to finish up?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, of course. So actually, you know, um, I know, you know, big, big crypto guy, and I know you like that. So one thing I'm really curious about, and you know, one thing I've read about in my book, actually, just like the cultural aspect around, you know, all these frontier tech, right? And, and, and sort of, um, emerging tech, right? All these sciences and whatever may be. So I'm curious, like, how do we change culture so that people are more sort of, you know, accepting of Bitcoin or crypto, for example? Or just, you know, in general, just, you know, of, of these sort of, you know, really emerging sciences and technologies?

• 29:05Anthony Pompliano?

  You don't have to change anything. They're going to be accepting of it either way. Because what ends up happening is that you're going to get the people who determine culture will eventually realize what this is. So if you noticed recently, Meek Mill, you know, Joe Budden,

• 29:20Anthony Pompliano?

  a bunch of other people that I don't know if they want it publicly known or not that they're, they're participating, but like people in the hip hop culture, right? Athletes, celebrities, all these people start to kind of warm up to it. And then next thing you know, they're just like, yeah, this is the thing, right? And when that happens, um, culture just naturally shifts because they set culture. And if they become interested in something, the culture will follow. And so I think that it's less about like, yes, I mean, sure, you could go like educate them on it or give them some or whatever. But I just think that it just, it's natural, just kind of progression over time. And I'm actually a big believer that like, you don't want to short circuit the kind of natural adoption of technology, because when you do that, you actually make it more likely that it will be unsustainable over a long period.

• 30:02Anthony Pompliano?

  So I think that it's, um, it's just a natural thing that's going to happen. It's already happening. And I think it only continues. So we'll see what happens.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

• 30:13Anthony Pompliano?

  We'll see. Where can I send people to find you on the internet?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. So, super, super active on Twitter, arana03 underscore, um, you know, LinkedIn as well. Um, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, trying to, you know, start up like a blog and everything around, you know, deep tech and moonshots and stuff. So it's all my Twitter. Like I do everything on Twitter now.

• 30:28Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So what was your Twitter handle?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Oh, arana03 underscore.

• 30:33Anthony Pompliano?

  R, so R R A N A.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Zero three.

• 30:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Zero three and underscore. What's the three for?

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Um, I'm the third child. So I just like always have three.

• 30:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm the third. My, my grandfather, my father, he says, hey, maybe you're a third too.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. For, for, for like baseball, little guy, I'd always use three, like every, every sport I played, just like three. It's almost the same thing.

• 30:58Anthony Pompliano?

  That's awesome. All right, man. Listen, thank you so much for doing this role. I think that people are going to absolutely love this. And I think that you're on to something with the moonshots, man. It's, uh, it, it is very obvious that, uh, you know, going after moonshots are better than, uh, kind of the, uh, just iterative approach to a technology and science innovation. So I appreciate you, uh, coming on and I appreciate you writing the book. People should go check it out. Making Moon Shots. You can get it on Amazon. Go read, go educate yourself and know what this is again in the future.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.