Marty Supreme and What’s Making Us Happy

The new movie Marty Supreme asks, can Timothée Chalamet play a supremely annoying character and still keep us interested from beginning to end? He stars as a working-class heel aiming to become a table tennis champion in the 1950s and features an eclectic supporting cast that includes Gwyneth Paltrow and Tyler, the Creator. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:19Aisha Harris?

  Can Timothy Chalamet play a supremely annoying character and still keep us interested from beginning to end? That is the question in the new movie Marty Supreme. He stars as a working-class heel aiming to become a table tennis champion in the 1950s.

• 0:35Linda Holmes?

  It's a head rush that bucks many of the typical sports movie tropes and features an eclectic supporting cast that includes Gwyneth Paltrow and Tyler, the Creator. I'm Linda Holmes.

• 0:45Aisha Harris?

  And I'm Aisha Harris. Joining us today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is podcast producer and film and culture critic Kate Young. Welcome back, Kate. Hi, I'm really excited for this one. Yes, I am supremely excited to talk about this with you all. So Marty Supreme stars Timothy Chalamet as Marty Mouser, a brat, a scoundrel, a hustler, and an aspiring world champion in table tennis. He's very loosely based on real-life champion Marty Reisman. It's 1952, and Marty's stuck working in his uncle's shoe store so that he can save up to compete in London. He eventually gets there, but this movie is less about the game of table tennis than it is about naked ambition and American male hubris. Marty will do pretty much anything to get what he wants, including rob and steal, and

• 1:30Aisha Harris?

  pretty much no one in his orbit is safe. Not his best friend Wally, played by Tyler Akoma, aka Tyler the Creator, or his married girlfriend Rachel, played by Odessa Azayyan. Even a poor, helpless dog is endangered because of him. That part really, really got to me during this movie. Gwyneth Paltrow appears as Kay Stone, a glamorous former movie star turned socialite who becomes entangled in some of Marty's shenanigans. The film is directed and co-written by Josh Safdie, who also co-directed and co-wrote Uncut Gems. Marty Supreme is in theaters on Christmas Day. Linda, I'm going to start with you. How do we feel about Marty Supreme?

• 2:08Linda Holmes?

  Well, there are things that I like very much about this movie. I think this Timothy Chalamet performance is very, very good. I like him in this mode. I'm more interested in him in this mode than in some of the poetic heroes kind of stuff that he's been doing, whether he's playing Bob Dylan or Willy Wonka. Obviously, it's a Josh Safdie movie, so it's not surprising that there's kind of an anxiety and a restlessness to this performance that I think is very effective. I think he is mesmerizing to watch in this, you know, which is an accomplishment because I'm not sure I care that much about this story. As you mentioned in the intro, Ayesha, it's not really about table tennis. You know, you think from the description, you're going

• 2:49Linda Holmes?

  to get like kind of a plucky underdog and you get kind of a bad person.

• 2:54Aisha Harris?

  You get the opposite.

• 2:55Linda Holmes?

  I'm not sure I would have been able to stay engaged in this with the exception of his performance, which I think is really incredibly watchable. And I'm sure we'll talk about a bunch of the other things in terms of the production. They decided to score this like it's a, I kept thinking like, if it's 1984 and you're making an action movie starring Wayne Gretzky, it's what the score of that movie would sound like. And it's very clearly intentional. It's based on all that kind of stuff. You keep expecting like Kenny Loggins to have a song on the soundtrack. But I think Chalamet is great. Can't take anything away from that. Not sure about the whole movie.

• 3:33Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, that soundtrack, I will say, the Safdie brothers, regardless of what you think about their filmmaking and the subjects that they tend to cover, I feel like they are very, very good at putting together a very clutch soundtrack. And this is no exception here. Kate, I asked this question at the beginning. Can Timothy Chalamet get away with being such an unlikable character in this movie? And I'm curious, how did your mileage vary with this?

• 3:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I've seen this movie twice. And the first time I came away from it thinking like, this is the best thing I've seen in ages. It's the only thing that can even like touch Sinner's Ham this year. I had a really good time. And then I watched Uncut Gems again, and then I watched the movie again. And I thought, it's a really good movie. It's an excellent performance. This is genuinely the first time that I like get why people won't stop talking about Timothy Chalamet because I personally find him to be kind of like. Middling is like, it's too unkind a word, but like, he's fine. But I think in this film, I understand what it is that he's talking about when he says that, you know, he really aspires to greatness. I think this is a performance that is very, very, very well considered, very clearly studied, very intentional.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  And it is a facet of his range that I hadn't seen before, and I was extremely impressed. And I'm happy to say that, you know, as many times as needs to be said. But I think overall for this movie, well, I think it's excellently made and an extremely fun watch. It's also the kind of movie that I think, when I start to think of it at like a meta level, it's like, of all the words that we have used so far to describe this character, like, the only one that I think really applies is the one that only comes up like, once in the movie, which is that he's a narcissist. There is not a single person or character that he comes into contact with in this film that is not made worse by his presence.

• 5:18Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  And I think that if we can't acknowledge that, like, we are being asked to sympathize with the worst person in the world, then we're like, missing half the movie.

• 5:29Aisha Harris?

  Hmm. Yes, yes. That's interesting. Okay, so there are a lot of words that I would call him, but I can't say on NPR, unfortunately, and that I thought of while I was watching this movie, and I completely agree with you both. I think this is the first sports movie I've ever watched where I'm actively rooting against the main character. I was like, oh my goodness, I don't want him to win. Like, no, I don't want this to happen. And I think for some, that might be a sign that this movie is doing too much and is asking us to some extent sympathize with the character. But I actually kind of think that I like the fact that I was rooting against him, and I'm not sure that the movie is necessarily

• 6:10Aisha Harris?

  asking us to sympathize with him. Is it just that he's the main character, and so by virtue of being the main character, we're going to, no matter what, we're kind of gonna be on his side? Or is this movie trying to do something a little different? And I do think that the fact that we see What happens to everyone around him? I don't see how anyone watching this could not feel as though like the whole time, this guy is awful, like I don't like him, I'm rooting against him.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  When I say sympathize, I don't mean like that we are specifically on his side or that we agree with everything that he says. I mean more to the sense that like, I mean, we're put in a situation where there's like international implications to his particular brand of hubris.

• 6:50Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  And I still felt like, oh, I need to see this outcome, right? And to me, that comes down to that performance, right? Like, we're put in a position where we essentially kind of like buy into his whole thing, right? And it takes you away with it. And I think that is really, really effective filmmaking because it forces me to then have to like stand outside of myself and be like, wait, you just got got. Like, you fully got got by this movie.

• 7:13Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. Lynda, did you have a similar experience? Because I was still rooting against him to the very end of this movie. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

• 7:20Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, I was rooting against him. You know, I think what I find fascinating about this as a sports movie, I mean, it's a sports movie, certainly, but in some ways, not really. And I think one of the things that this story does is it takes his desire to win a championship, right? In this case, a table tennis championship. And it just makes that the goal. And it doesn't really ever ask the question, is this goal reasonable? Is this goal worthwhile? It just says, this is the goal and he will do anything. And so in some ways, it's a very clean presentation of the question, is ambition for ambition's sake, right? This is what I want.

• 8:04Linda Holmes?

  This is what I want to accomplish and I will do anything. How do you feel? You know, is there any part of you that admires that? Do you hate that? Because a lot of times, people translate that kind of ambition or that kind of desire in a traditional sports movie through the idea of work and perhaps suffering and training and dedication. Here, it becomes harm to other people.

• 8:31Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Linda Holmes?

  The harm that he does to his girlfriend, certainly. The harm that he does to his friend, the harm that he does to Gwyneth Paltrow, the harm that he's willing to do to just about everyone. You know, you talked about naked ambition. At what point is that bare desire to get what you want not necessarily the same thing as somebody who is willing to work for what they want?

• 8:58Aisha Harris?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:59Linda Holmes?

  And because it's not that he isn't willing to work on his table tennis because he is, but that's not really what you're watching him do in the film.

• 9:08Aisha Harris?

  Right.

• 9:09Linda Holmes?

  I do think the film has some structural issues. You know, it is two and a half hours long. Do I think there's two and a half hours of story here? Probably not.

• 9:18Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Linda Holmes?

  And I don't mean that to say by definition, this is too long, period. I mean, there are places in it where I think there are some significant pacing issues. There are parts of it that I think drag on way too long. You mentioned the dog, Aisha. I think some of that stuff is just, you could do a lot more with not very much. And I understand it's all building up to this very dramatic conclusion. But I felt like that stuff dragged. I felt like it got a little repetitive. I didn't feel like they needed all the pieces of it necessarily.

• 9:48Aisha Harris?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:48Linda Holmes?

  So there are things that I have doubts about other than just who he is and what the movie is really saying about him. Because obviously, you know, a filmmaker uses cinematic language to signal, you know, who this character is in the story. And I think this creates an interesting tension between that filmmaking skill that Josh Safdie has.

• 10:14Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 10:14Linda Holmes?

  Which is also like, you know, when you're very invested in what's going to happen to Adam Sandler at the end of Uncut Gems, it's kind of the same thing, right? Also, like, why do I care about this? And yet you do because you're there, because you're in the hands of these filmmakers who are very talented.

• 10:27Aisha Harris?

  I'm surprised that a movie like this is willing to show moments where, you know, Marty has to be humbled. Like, at one point early on, it's basically like an old Hollywood montage where he's like traveling the world with the Harlem Globetrotters. And this is like the lowest thing. He's like, I'm too good for this. I'm playing table tennis against a seal. I am doing like, those moments, I think. And the fact that his like main opponent, he's played by Kodo Kawaguchi in the movie, His Name Is Kodo Endo. The fact that we learn something about that character that makes us question like, is Marty even actually really good at what he does? Or is he really not the best? And I think that question of, you know, is he actually the best?

• 11:11Aisha Harris?

  Because in most sports movies, that is not the question. It's just like, this person is clearly the best, or is probably one of the best, but is too scrappy. Like, I think of something like Creed, or like, they're really good, but they're scrappy, and they just need to train, and whatever. We see him playing, but we don't actually see him training. We see him trying to market his own special ball that's a different color, so it makes it easier to see. We see those things. He's a businessman, a not good businessman, but he's a businessman. A lot of P T Barnum. Very, very P T Barnum. And I think that's really kind of what I gravitated towards with this movie. For all of the issues that I have, I agree with you on the pacing, absolutely, Lynda. But I really just appreciate that this question's whether or not he's actually good. And it's also a sport that like, most people, at least in America, don't take seriously.

• 11:56Aisha Harris?

  So that kind of added layer of complication made this sort of more enjoyable than I would have thought a typical sports movie would. I feel like it's also just worth noting that this is the second Safdie Brothers sports movie this fall. Earlier, we had The Smashing Machine, Benny Safdie's movie, starring The Rock as a real-life MMA fighter. And it's interesting, because both of these movies seem to be trying to subvert the way that sports movies and sports biopics typically play out. But I think this one is a little bit more successful at that than The Smashing Machine is.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  It's interesting to me that you said, you know, you think that it questions whether or not he's actually good. Because I didn't get that sense at all. To me, it was very clear that he is very good. What is at question to me is whether or not he is as good as he thinks he is. And this is why the movie really comes down to that performance for me, is because this movie only works if you believe that he believes that he is the best thing since sliced bread. Because the way that he approaches, not just the way that he seeks to get things out of the people in his orbit, but the way that he talks about himself. And his own skill, it is very clear that he thinks that he is just trying to drag the world up to where he is and to like finally get with the picture that like he's on top of the world and like he's trying to give you the opportunity to get it on

• 13:13Speaker 03

  the ground floor. Like his presence is a gift to the people in his orbit and he really thinks that that's true. You know, there's a scene somewhere, I think probably in the last third of this film where he says to one of the characters, like, I have a purpose and I need you to know now that nothing is going to sway me from that purpose. And like, I will help you do whatever it is that you need to get done and I will make sure that you're good, but like, I'm not gonna sit around and like be your boyfriend. Like, it's not gonna happen. And it's such a cruel thing to say to someone, especially in that particular situation. But it's even more absurd when you realize that he's talking about hitting a tiny little ball with a paddle on a table. Like, that's his life's purpose.

• 13:49Linda Holmes?

  That's what I mean about whether the ambition itself to him is what's valuable. What makes him special in his mind is not what the end goal is, it's how committed he is to it. I do want to take a second and acknowledge some of what they did with the supporting cast in this film, because I think Gwyneth Paltrow, who's essentially playing an aging movie star who is no longer quite as hot as she once was, but she's considered kind of a great beauty. I don't know that this is a huge stretch for her, but I think she does a good job. I think she's not acting a whole lot anymore. I saw her in this. I think she has some very nice moments in it, in the sense that she is kind of immediately

• 14:29Linda Holmes?

  on to Marty and who he is, and yet, of course, is gonna get sucked into his life as so many people do. Also, very interesting to me, Josh Thaffey cast Fran Drescher as Marty's mother.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:43Linda Holmes?

  In a straight, dramatic part. And I can't remember the last time I saw somebody cast her in a straight, dramatic part. And I think she's quite good. It's a small role. But I think she's good. And to me, it's an interesting moment of like, right, you know, as with everyone, there's a real person under the idea that people have of her from the nanny and from, you know, the beautician and the beast and all that stuff. Like, there's a regular person who has feelings and all that. And I appreciated having that brought out. On the less happy side, I have seen Kevin O'Leary on Shark Tank a lot. I have also seen Kevin O'Leary as a pundit on the news. Basically, he is somebody who acts like a jerk, like as his thing, sort of.

• 15:25Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Linda Holmes?

  That's sort of his persona. And he's basically coming in here, you know, playing this very rich businessman, Gwyneth Paltrow's husband, who Marty is trying to get to kind of bankroll all of his efforts and support all of his efforts. And it was not particularly interesting to me to see him come in and very much play the same kind of jerk that he plays as a person. And so I'm not even sure it qualifies as acting. That was not pleasant to me. I found it quite distracting. I don't know whether people who have not watched a lot of Shark Tank would find it distracting. I found it terribly distracting.

• 16:00Aisha Harris?

  I mean, I had no idea who he was, to be honest. Like, for some reason, I thought he was some character actor I recognized from 90s family, like, movies. Like, he has that look of, like, the dad who works too much in a 1990s holiday movie, and the kid is like, Daddy, be home with me more. That's who I thought he was. And then when I saw he was from Shark Tank, I was like, oh, oh, that makes sense. Like, the Safdie's kind of have a habit of casting sometimes people playing a version of themselves, and they're not actually actors, but like-

• 16:29Linda Holmes?

  Kevin Garnett.

• 16:30Aisha Harris?

  Yes, Kevin Garnett in Anka Gems. Yeah, so that wasn't distracting to me. But I agree, like, he is kind of playing like one-note person, and there's not much there. I do also think, you know, the Tyler, the creator, character, Wally, and also the Odessa Azayun character of his girlfriend, Rachel, you know, those are kind of the standard roles we often see in these movies, the black best friends and the girlfriend slash, well, she's married in this movie, but they're secretly having an affair, and then it becomes not so secret. And those are both like, they could be thankless roles, and I think as written, there's not that much there there. But as performed by

• 17:10Aisha Harris?

  both of those people, those actors, I think it works. Like, I was invested. I thought Wally and Marty have a good rapport. And, you know, Rachel has her own journey that kind of straddles the line between shrieking girlfriend and kind of manipulative and actually kind of dastardly in some places. And I think that they both kind of rose above it, and I appreciated that sort of just like whirlwind of everything happening and the way this is shot and- It's very frenetic. I think we've mentioned Uncut Gems a few times. I think if you've seen that movie and liked it, then you will probably like this movie. But yeah, there's a lot going on and it's not just table tennis.

• 17:51Aisha Harris?

  Well, it sounds like we all at least had a interesting time, an entertaining time at Marty Supreme. So tell us what you think about Marty Supreme. Once you've had a chance to check it out, find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. Up next, what's making us happy this week?

• 18:12Speaker 04

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• 19:46Aisha Harris?

  And now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week, what's making us happy. Kate, why don't you kick us off?

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Sure. So ever since I was last on the show, I think it was probably like a month or two by now, for the new HBO series, Welcome to Derry, the it spinoff TV show, I've been catching up now that my screeners have run out. And what has been really exciting is to see the actress Madeline Stowe on the show. She is playing one of the less than trustworthy adults these kids have to interface with. And it was such a delight to see her again because I very, very recently finished rewatching the ABC series Revenge, of which she was a star. And played an absolutely wonderful, conniving foil to our protagonist Emily Thorne, played by, I forget her name, but um.

• 20:36Linda Holmes?

  Emily Van Camp.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  That's the one I knew was also an Emily. But I loved that show when it was on. I still remember it. It was my senior year of college. I had a great time with it. I love to say that it's, you know, it's white excellence. It's just two white women going at each other constantly over the worst things, being absolutely miserable to each other, faking murders. It's great. And it's been a nice reminder that like, you know, just because she did this thing 15 years ago, doesn't mean that she doesn't have more to give. And I'm really, really glad that more people are getting to see what she can do. That is Madeline Stowe in the current HBO series, Welcome to Derry.

• 21:10Aisha Harris?

  Thank you, Kate. Linda, what is making you happy?

• 21:13Linda Holmes?

  Well, my friend, you know that I read a lot of eBooks. I listen to a lot of audiobooks, but from time to time, there is a book that comes out that I want to own in print. Perhaps it's just deeply meaningful to me. Perhaps I want it on my shelf. The most recent book to fall into this category is the new 12th edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. And this is a new edition. It just came out very recently. And I got myself a copy. It is a big brick of a book. You know, this is not a book that you can't pick up. It's not that kind of book. But it is a great big book with little tiny print. And so sometimes when I am sitting around, I just pick it up and I open it

• 21:57Linda Holmes?

  and I look at it until I find a word that I do not know and have never heard before and have no idea what it is. And for example, the other day, I opened it up and learned the word femtosecond, which is F E M T O S E C O N D. And a femtosecond is one quadrillionth of a second. Now, did you need to know this for your day to day life? Maybe not. Now, some people do need to know this because they work in the kinds of sciences where this kind of thing is important. But even if you don't, you pick up the dictionary, you flip around a little bit and you find a new word that you don't know. And then all of a sudden, you have a new word and you can use it whenever you want.

• 22:41Linda Holmes?

  And you can say things like, I would not spend one femtosecond voluntarily watching Kevin O'Leary on Shark Tank. And yet I watched him in Mario's dream. You never know what's going to come in handy. So what is making me happy is the new 12th edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Thank you very much.

• 23:00Aisha Harris?

  Thank you, Lynda. That might be one of our most NPR nerdiest happies we've had in a minute.

• 23:06Linda Holmes?

  I embrace it. I embrace it.

• 23:08Aisha Harris?

  I love it. I love it. Well, what's making me happy this week is also probably equally NPR nerdy. So, look, I can take it as much as I dish it, Lynda. It is The Tale of Cillian, directed by Tamara Kotewski. And it's about a Macedonian family, a farming family, that's been hit pretty hard by the country's economic instability. And basically, they're unable to sell their crops. And so some in the family decides to relocate somewhere else, attempt to have a better life. But the patriarch decides he wants to stay at the farm, like he refuses to leave the farm behind. And so he winds up alone, he has a friend, but then he develops this special bond with an injured stork he happens upon while working in a landfill.

• 23:53Aisha Harris?

  And it turns into this really beautiful, lovely story about a man and a stork and what he goes through to try to help it get better, the comfort the stork brings him in the absence of his family. He's still, you know, doing video chats with his family, but like- There's also a little bit of backstory about their history, and it weaves in a Macedonian folk tale. And I was surprised by how moved I was by this. I went into it not knowing anything about it. And it's also so beautifully shot by cinematographer and producer Jean Decar. So that is The Tale of Zillian. It's in select theaters now and will be streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu in January. And that is what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations,

• 24:38Aisha Harris?

  sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Kate Young, Linda Holmes, thanks so much for being here. This was so fun.

• 24:48Linda Holmes?

  Thank you. Thank you, my friend.

• 24:50Aisha Harris?

  And this episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Kayla Latimer, Mike Katsiv, and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.

• 25:06Speaker 00

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