From Crash Victim To Elite Athlete: A NYC Firefighter’s Long Run to Wholeness

In 2005, New York City firefighter, avid marathoner and ironman athlete Matt Long hopped onto his bike to do what he did every day — ride from his East side Manhattan apartment north to the Randall's Island fire academy where he helped train the city’s bravest. As he crossed 52nd Street, a 20-ton bus made a right turn from the middle lane. The bus didn't just hit him, it dragged his body completely underneath, where Matt was then quite literally impaled by his bike. After receiving 68 units of blood in the first 40 hours post-accident, Matt spent the next month in a coma. When he woke up, the doctors told him he was facing a one percent chance of survival. Matt had other plans. After a 5-month hospital stint and 40 surgeries in under two years, he did more than survive. He finally came alive. The story of Matt’s accident and his comeback quest to tackle the 2008 NYC marathon just 3 years after his accident was first chronicled in an extraordinary story in Runner's World by Charles Butler entitled A Second Life. That story was later adapted and expanded into Matt's exceptionally inspiring memoir, The Long Run* , a work of co-authorship by Long and Butler (not to be confused with my buddy and RRP favorite Mishka Shubaly's equally compelling Kindle Single, also entitled The Long Run*). Today Matt will tell you not only does he not regret the accident, it is the one thing that has made him whole. There are many words that can be used to describe Matt — firefighter, 9/11 first responder, ironman athlete, accomplished marathoner, advocate, bon vivant, husband and father. But one word will suffice: hero. Matt is a man I hold in high regard as an incredible example of the resiliency not just of the physical body, but of the emotional body — the indomitable, boundless strength of the human spirit in selfless service to others. Great guy. Great talk. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:08Speaker 01

  I'm not a challenged athlete. I said, "I'm an athlete with challenges." There's a big difference.

• 1:14Rich Roll?

  That's Matt Long, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:27Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. All right, podcast listeners, all you people out there in Podcastlandia, greetings. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. I've been your host since day one. That's why the podcast has my name on it. Welcome to episode 130. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for spreading the word to your friends and on your various social media doodads and widgets. Thank you for subscribing to my newsletter. Thank you for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. You might have noticed, we've got a new website. It's a website that kicks some serious ass. It's amazing. It's a whole new look for what we're doing. I love it. I'm so proud of it.

• 2:11Rich Roll?

  So many people worked so hard to make it happen for a very long time. It's been a long time in the coming. And I think it's really, it's a visual experience and it's very emblematic of the kind of vibe, the ethos that I'm trying to put out there. So if you haven't checked it out yet, please go there and check it out. But the reason I'm bringing it up right now is because I've gotten a bunch of messages from people on Twitter and email and stuff like that, saying, "Hey, man, what happened to the Amazon banner ad? I want to support you." And it's gone. So first of all, let's just talk about how somebody reached out to me to tell me they want to support me and I'm making it difficult for them to do that. Like, that in and of itself is amazing, so thank you for even being that engaged or interested to reach out to me and make that extra effort.

• 2:56Rich Roll?

  And yes, the Amazon banner ad did move. It's because we have a new iteration of the site. Everything moved around. But we have it. It's really not that hard to find. If you go to the main podcast page, click Podcast on the homepage, it takes you to a main catalog page where you can kind of peruse all the episodes. And you will see, right below the main image, right below, there's a paragraph titled Unlock Your Best Self. Right beneath that, you'll see a clickable button that says Support Through Amazon. It's pretty easy to see. In addition, on every individual podcast episode blog page, at the very bottom, you will see a banner ad for Amazon. Better yet, just when you click on one of those buttons, copy and paste the URL, save

• 3:40Rich Roll?

  it as a bookmark on your browser. That way, you kind of always have it. It's right there. You don't necessarily have to come to my website, although I encourage you to. Thank you. You know, I hope you want to, but you don't have to. I just want to make it easy for everybody. So that's how you do it. Thank you again. It really does help us out a lot. And I really do appreciate all you people out there who have made a practice out of using it. It warms my heart. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay.

• 4:07Rich Roll?

  This show, this show is about, if it's about anything, it's about unpacking the tools necessary to live your best life, how to live more authentically, how to vibrate at a higher level, how to be more excellent. And so, towards this end, each week, I sit down with the best and the brightest, most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in health, wellness, fitness, sports, nutrition, the arts, and entrepreneurship to tap their experience, to gain some knowledge from them, to garner some insight, to help you and me, because I'm on this journey with you guys, discover, uncover, unlock, and unleash your

• 4:49Rich Roll?

  best, most authentic self. I think that's a worthy mission. Hopefully, you do too. That's why you tuned in.

• 5:02Rich Roll?

  Anyway, this week's guest, I'm really excited about this week's guest. Matt Long, straight up, this guy's a hero, straight up. New York City firefighter, New York City 9/11 first responder, Ironman athlete, marathoner, icon, with an incredible story that he comes here today to share with you guys. An incredible story of resilience, of overcoming tremendous obstacles to not only survive, but to accomplish things most people would think beyond the imagination. It breaks down like this. Back in 2005, Matt was a firefighter, New York

• 5:45Rich Roll?

  City firefighter, and like he did every day, he hopped on his bike to ride from his apartment on East 48th Street in Manhattan up to Randall's Island, where they have a fire academy, and he was helping train some of the city's young, brave, new firefighters. And as he came upon the intersection at 52nd Street, he started to cross the street, and a 20-ton bus made a right-hand turn from the middle lane. That bus didn't just hit him, it dragged him underneath, along with his bike, and his bike ended up impaling his body. When Matt woke up in the hospital about a month later, the doctors told him that he was facing a 1% chance of survival. 1%.

• 6:32Rich Roll?

  After 68 units of blood in the first 40 hours post accident, five months in the hospital, 40 surgeries in two years, Matt did more than survive. He came alive. And the story of Matt's accident and his eventual comeback quest to run the New York City Marathon in 2008, just three years after his accident, is chronicled in his incredible memoir. It's called "The Long Run." And for the record, this is the second guy to come on my show, on this podcast with a book called "The Long Run." The first, of course, if you're a longtime listener, you will know, is my buddy Mishka Shubali. So, sorry, Mishka. But hey, if somebody writes a book called "The Long Run," it's almost a given that they're gonna, I guess, come on my podcast and talk about it. But the truth is, is that I've been chasing Matt for a long time.

• 7:16Rich Roll?

  I've always wanted to have him on his show. I think his story is so touching and extraordinary. And he's a guy I've been wanting to meet for years. He's a guy I hold in really high regard as an incredible example of the resiliency of not just the physical body, the fact that he was able to rehabilitate and repair his body enough to run a marathon, but of the incredible resiliency of the emotional body, the resiliency of the spirit. And this is a guy for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect for as an example of someone who has leveraged what many would see as a tragedy, but which he sees as just his experience. He's leveraged this for the benefit and service of other people. And that's amazing.

• 8:01Rich Roll?

  He does it through his foundation called the I Will Foundation and through other avenues. And anyway, he's a great guy. He is a hero. This is a great talk. I am inspired to know this guy, and I'm so happy to now have him in my life. This is a good one, people. Seriously. So let's dig in and check out Matt.

• 8:25Rich Roll?

  So you almost burned the building down next door?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  It was fun, but I did.

• 8:34Rich Roll?

  In a past life, in a past incarnation, right?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yes, in a past life.

• 8:39Rich Roll?

  What is a, what's a typical day look like for you now?

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Typical day for me is waking up at six and taking the dogs out and then tending to my two-year-old.

• 8:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  So, and getting the older ones off to school, but after nine o'clock, everything kind of settles down. Wife goes to work and I'm back into training or doing what I, you know, whatever I can for the day.

• 9:06Rich Roll?

  And, you know, we were talking a little bit before we started recording about how, you know, our lives are very different, they're on, they're sort of on different paths, but there's these, there's sort of common themes and they intersect in different ways. Like I sort of, you know, created this disaster for myself to have to look in the mirror and kind of change my ways and live a different life. And you had a, you know, a tragic intervening event, but it set you on a different kind of path for your life. And I think that's, that's super interesting.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, you never know what, when you choose the road you're gonna take in life, you never know what's gonna happen. And, you know, I guess it's an old additive. When I go around talking about it, I just, it's what you do after that event that changes who you are.

• 9:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, something like that, you have two choices, right? It's either gonna, it's gonna crush you, it's gonna break you, or you have an opportunity to learn from it and grow and share something from that. And you obviously chose the latter, but it's the struggle and the journey towards that choice, I think, where, you know, where your message is so powerful.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and that, and that struggle and that journey was not easy, you know. It, it's funny, I can go around and talk about it, I can laugh about it, I can make some jokes about different things now, but, but those, let's say, two years of depression and surgeries and, you know, fighting different weaknesses in my body.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  It's, you know, it just felt like it was more than two years, like a lifetime. You know, there's, they like, there were multiple, multiple times where I said to myself, I can't, I can't do this. You know, and, and, and you're right, you either just quit and it takes you, or you fight. And, you know, I'm not, I don't think I've had any kind of level of success in winning the battle because I'm not who I used to be. And I never will, I'll never run as fast as I did, or, you know, I'll never cycle, I'll never be as strong physically as I was, but, but, but I'm, you know, I'm living my life the best I can and that's, there's no, there's no beating that.

• 11:27Rich Roll?

  Well, I think if you, if you take a more expansive definition of strength, you're a stronger person now. You may not be able to run as fast as you could, but I think in terms of overall strength, I would, I would characterize you as, as now being an extremely strong person.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny, we segue to that because two of men's fitness, fittest men in the world sit in, in one room.

• 11:49Rich Roll?

  In the same room at the same time.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 11:52Rich Roll?

  We should call men's fitness and tell them.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 11:56Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Rich and Matt are doing a push-up contest right now.

• 11:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, right. It was, uh, I think it was you were 2010 in that one, right? Were you, was it the every man like hero kind of thing? Because that's the, what they, that's how they pigeonholed me into that. I think it was the year, I was 2009? That was the year before you, I think.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  2010 was me and they just numbered the amount of surgeries I had and said, that's why he's here.

• 12:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, good, man. Yeah, it's cool.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  But I take it and roll with it.

• 12:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Hey, man, listen, you know, and I always say, I was like, not for one second do I believe that I'm one of the 25 fittest men in the world, but that's pretty effective when you're trying to sell a book. It's like a good tagline.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 12:36Rich Roll?

  Right? But I think, you know, one question that comes to mind, you know, when you're sort of talking about how it was a hard road and such a struggle, you know, I'm sure people say to you every day, like, oh, you're such an inspiration, you know, thank you for your message and all of that. Like, how do you receive that? Like, when you look back on your, you know, sort of the humanity of, of that journey and how difficult it was for you, like, how do you process that?

• 13:00Speaker 01

  You know, there are times when, and there are times when I get told that and I embrace it and I enjoy it and that is my finish line. That is my sense of accomplishment or my purpose now. And I really, really, you know, I really take some of it from, something from it. Like you were a kid when, you know, they said, wow, what a game you played today. Great game, you know, great job today, good effort. And then there are other times when the person who's delivering it to me is worse off than I was.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  And may never walk again or, you know, lost a leg or lost two legs. And they tell me, I've read your story and you inspire me not to quit, not to give up. And at that point, I, I look at my wife or I looked at someone close and I go, you know, I don't want to be this inspiration. This is hard. You know, this is tough because I'm leaving here and I'm feeling bad for this person. And he's looking at me like, you know, you're my, this is it, I'm pushing because of you. And he may never walk again, you know? And I have plenty of friends now, because of this journey, two or three that I'm really close with that are still in wheelchairs.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  And, you know, they let me know that I've inspired them and I, I'm never going to tell them not to give up their dreams of walking again. I think deep down, they may know it, but their inspiration to live a good life came from me not quitting.

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  And, and, and I, it's hard. That's, that's the hardest part.

• 14:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  When you see someone who, who's overcome it and, and moved on, awesome. I'm glad I helped you. When you see someone that is worse than I was, it's very, very challenging to, to want to take that role.

• 14:47Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. How often are you going out and doing public speaking and, you know, what, what does that look like for you now?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  I, I've been, I've been traveling about 12, 16, 12 to 16 times a year.

• 14:58Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  So not too bad the last three years. You know, this is, speaking season is coming up, so things are rolling around.

• 15:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  But, uh, yeah, you know, I, I take, one, I have, I do it because I need it for a living now. And but I like certain audiences better than others because I feel like the message is more received.

• 15:20Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  So I really enjoy speaking to college athletes, I really speak to high school athletes at a certain level. My story is pretty gruesome, I think, for younger kids.

• 15:29Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. What about veterans?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  I haven't spoken to any veteran group.

• 15:35Rich Roll?

  Ah, it's surprising. I would have, I would have thought that you would be somebody who would be great for that.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't spoken to any veteran groups. I've helped personally or been involved on this, on the background of helping some veterans. I really enjoy that, the sacrifice they made and, you know, I mean, I guess you could say I paralleled it by being a firefighter. I knew there was a chance in life that something really bad could happen to me.

• 15:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  With my profession. I didn't think it would be on a bicycle, get into my work.

• 16:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the irony of that is amazing, right? Like, it just, it happens in such a different way than you would have predicted.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:08Rich Roll?

  You know, if it had happened as a result of you doing your job, that's one thing, but the context in which that occurred is so, is so extraordinary. So, let's take it back for, for people who may not have read your book or are not familiar with your story. You grew up, bunch of brothers in Brooklyn, firefighter, like, set the stage a little bit.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, I'm the second oldest of nine children, have six brothers and two sisters. Yeah, I like to joke about it, is, you know, where'd I get my competitive natures? The dinner on Friday night. Mom, dad had a small ice cream ball, and mom didn't work. How could you work with nine children back in the day? So, um.

• 16:47Rich Roll?

  Nine kids.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think dinner on Friday night was like the competitive event, first one in gets, gets the best meal.

• 16:52Rich Roll?

  That's kind of like a firehouse.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And so, I become a firefighter after college and finding my way in Wall Street really wasn't for me and I, my dad was like, hey, you know, just take this test, in high school, he said, take this test, you need to have a backup plan.

• 17:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I'm like, ah, you know, when you're 18, you're like, well, who needs a plan? Yeah, I don't need a plan, Dad. But you listen to him and I took the test and they called, thank God, because I was, at that point, was out of work and, um.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  And it was like the first time in my life, I was like, wow, I loved it. I loved the job. And I felt like, wow, without knowing, without really growing up saying I was called to be a New York City fireman, it became my calling and I really enjoyed it, enjoyed going to work every day. It was just unbelievable. However, it took me down this journey that changed, eventually when I realized it changed the way I operated in life, changed the way I went about my daily routines. I got overweight, you know, much like your story. You know, in the fire department, it's a boys' club. And every night was a party. I mean, guy got promoted, you had a party. Guys retiring, you have a party. You know, guys getting divorced, let's have a party.

• 18:08Rich Roll?

  Right, right. Plus a bunch of guys making food for themselves. There is not going to be on the healthy tip, right?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Put another stick of butter in.

• 18:17Rich Roll?

  Do you know, have you ever met Rip Esselstyn? Do you know, the Engine 2 Diet Guy?

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  He turned around his firehouse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Arizona or?

• 18:25Rich Roll?

  In Austin, in Austin. Yeah, yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  So, anyway, long story short, on that, bringing my, what we're talking about here to time, I started looking, doing this inventory check of my life, that's the way I like to talk about it. I started, you know, why is my back hurting? Why am I not as happy going to work anymore? Why am I not doing this?

• 18:48Rich Roll?

  How old were you at that time?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  About 35, 36. All right, I'm 28 pounds overweight.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  You know, things are changing in the firehouse, guys are getting younger, stronger, bigger. I found running. You know, I was an athlete my whole life, but I found running now. And now, there was nothing that could clear your head better than a 60-minute run in the park. You know, you didn't need anything, you know, it wasn't as complicated as it is today. Like, who you have your goos, what do you have, what pills you using? You know, we just went out and ran.

• 19:19Rich Roll?

  Well, it should be that way now, anyway, but that's a different conversation.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  So, anyway, I started getting into endurance sports, triathlons, and running, and making every race count and all this stuff. And lo and behold, I started using my bicycle as my means of transportation. And it was Christmas time, nine years ago.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  And the New York City Transit Authority decided to go on strike. Shut the city down. Millions of tourists, no one can get around, the city was jam packed. And I had, it was like eighteen degrees. I got on my bike and I wasn't that strong of a person, eighteen degrees. I was getting in my car.

• 19:59Rich Roll?

  Right, but just to like, like hit the pause button here for a second, you're kind of like glossing over the fact that like, you weren't just out running and riding your bike, like you were, you were killing it, right? You did, you did Ironman like Placid, you qualified for Boston running, like you were doing very well as an endurance athlete. You weren't just dabbling, like you were excelling.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I was excelling, I was excelling and I, and I thought I could have done better. So I was on a mission.

• 20:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  To, to do better.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this, but this particular day was just transportation. And, you know, private bus that was hired to get workers past restriction zones in the city. You know, made a wrong turn. This, this guy made a judgment call in life that I'm sure he's upset about. But he, he just turned down a block that he shouldn't have turned down, he didn't see me. And next thing you know, the laws of physics, as it comes to the accident investigators, didn't exist with me. They normally say that in an accident like this, I would have bounced off the bus. And the second impact is what would have killed me.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Instead, I got sucked under the bus.

• 21:09Rich Roll?

  The bus is, is going up.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Third Avenue.

• 21:13Rich Roll?

  Takes a right on Fifty Second Street and just, and you're, you're there in the bike lane.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:18Rich Roll?

  And instead of bouncing off, you go underneath the bus and get dragged.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Got swept under and yeah, he just kinda honked on me.

• 21:25Rich Roll?

  Right. And, all right, so, so, you know, do you have memory of, of that happening or is it all a blur?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  It's a bit of a blur. Over time, anything that I've been able to translate to other people has been told to me. You know, I do remember, and I have dreams about it all the time, putting my left hand up in the air as the bus was on my left side and like kind of reaching up to the, like slap the side of the bus, says, "No, no, no, stop." And then that was it. I do have very vague memories of talking to, like again, it's a small city, even though there's eight billion people here. I knew all the firemen on the east side. So as soon as they pulled my nomex hood off and I heard one of the firemen say, you know, "Oh, my God, it's Matty Long from 43 Truck."

• 22:19Speaker 01

  I closed my eyes, like almost to say like, "I'm in good hands now." And that's it. You know, then the next six weeks I was in a medically induced coma and not knowing anything.

• 22:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it wasn't just that, you know, you were in an accident, you were about as close to death as somebody's gonna come.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, my doctors say 1%. But my, I'm still friendly with all my doctors and they, when we go out to dinner, they so calmly brush over what happened to me. I'm like, "Hey, hey, hey, I'm sitting right here." They're like, "You were an academic exercise." I'm like, "What? I'm here."

• 22:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, what does that mean? Because like it was such an anomaly that you had actually survived.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. He just, he just had his residents and his interns or whatever you call them in the medical profession, and he's had them there saying, "Okay, what would we do for this guy if he was gonna live?"

• 23:10Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, if he was gonna live.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  If. And they all just, I said, "How do you guys do that? I mean, that's like, that's amazing that you can just shut it off and do that." I, I'm blessed and honored that, and I feel privileged that I went to the greatest or what I think is the greatest hospital in the world, but how do you, you can't teach that.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  Well, it's almost an emotional defense mechanism, right? If they're gonna be seeing people like every single day, they can't get emotionally invested in it. They wouldn't be able to function, right?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  I agree on that. And one of the things he told me too later on was, he goes, "I was more concerned about your life, not your quality of life." So, 'cause you know afterwards, and I leave the hospital all attached with different tubes and things, I was, he was like...

• 23:59Speaker 01

  I was like, why would you help me so I could live like this? I'm not, I'm not living.

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  And he's like, well, that's not my problem. My problem is to save your life. My job is to save your life. He goes, which we didn't think we did. You were an academic exercise. We were just going through the motions and we left the room multiple times to come back thinking you'd be expired. And, you know, your heart rate's going to twenty eight beats a minute.

• 24:19Rich Roll?

  This frigging guy's still alive.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  My doctor was a marathon runner and he, uh, but, you know, he was, he's out there doing it, four and a half, five hour guy. And when he went outside to tell my mom and dad that they're doing the best they can.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  We have about a one percent chance of survival. And my mom was like, my mom, stubborn Irish Catholic woman. She, she just said to, uh, the doctor said, doc, um, he, he asked us about it. And she's like, he's like, I'm sorry? He's like, well, he just qualified for Boston and I don't know if you run, but that's a really big deal and he's, he's gotta run Boston in April. And he, the doctor was like, well, go back inside of him.

• 24:58Rich Roll?

  I don't think you really understand what's going on here.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  So, but then he gave me a five percent chance.

• 25:03Rich Roll?

  So, so, so run down, you know, the list of injuries.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  All right, we'll go from the feet up. My, uh, my left foot leg from a heel to hip, broken. Compound fractures, all fractures were compound, skin to open, bones out, tib, fib, femur.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  My right side of the pelvis was shattered.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  My abdominal wall was torn out of my body by the bike. I was basically cut open from stem to stern. So from my sternum to my rectum, I was ripped in half.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  My right shoulder was crushed and thank God, no head trauma. You know, and thank God, no head trauma. But, but that's pretty, the, the bulk of the life threatening injuries was not the broken bones. It was the bike cutting me from my sternum to my rectum. Severing my femoral artery, um, severing, um, sacral nerves, you know, the major pathway through your body, mind to muscle, just cut in half.

• 26:11Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and, uh, and so when you come out of this coma and start to realize the gravity of your circumstance, you know, what's going through your head?

• 26:23Speaker 01

  You know, I don't think I realized it at first because I kind of remember the first thing I said to the doctor when I saw him was, "When can I go home?" Meanwhile, I'm holding, I'm resting my arms on a piece of metal that I just thought was like a shelf connected to my bed, and then I realized it was an external fixator holding my pelvis together. And I realized it was a part of me. And at that point, I was kind of like, "Why?" You know, "Why me?" And I don't really think that, I don't want to start a pity party for myself, and I never really did. Maybe I had my own, but it was, "Why did

• 27:05Speaker 01

  I live?" You know, not, "Why did this happen to me?" But, okay, it happened, it happens to people all the time. In fact, we could be sitting here now and something could be happening on the west side of the city, you know. But why am I still here? Why am I left to go through this? You know, 42 surgeries. Now, why, why? And that is something that just I played out in my head over and over and over again, like, "What did I do? What, why am I deserving of this?"

• 27:32Rich Roll?

  Like on some karmic level?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah. You know, I just, I just couldn't figure it out. And I wanted to, but I couldn't.

• 27:40Rich Roll?

  Do you feel like you've answered that question for yourself now?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Well, I, I think, yeah, I, I know what the answer would be, would reaffirm, yeah. I, I think that when I look back at my life, all the things I've been through, you know, I was rolling around life through the motions, you know. Was I successful? Yes, in some people's eyes, I was. I was a fireman. I owned two or three bars and restaurants in Manhattan. I was single, so like, you know, dating wasn't a problem. In fact, maybe it was a problem, maybe I did it too much. I don't know. But, so, yeah.

• 28:22Rich Roll?

  I got some of your ex-girlfriends outside. We're gonna bring them in, yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  I'll take curtain number one, please. So...

• 28:34Speaker 01

  But I, I think that I started to really find, trying to think back and like, well, why? What was I doing? Like, you know, if, if it had ended, what would they have said about me?

• 28:46Rich Roll?

  What, what is your, what would your legacy have been?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I don't think it would have been much. You know, he was a good time guy.

• 28:51Rich Roll?

  Everybody, everybody loved Matty.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now, post accident, I, I'm fortunate enough that I had this, you know, by, by no means do I think I did this on my own. Okay. I had a support group. I had tremendous family, fire department family and, and was touched with written letters or emails from around the world. How my, this little fireman story, you know, of, of don't give up, spread, helped me not quit. And for some reason, going through the endurance world and, and, you know, pushing myself for Iron Man and to get fast enough for Boston, um, I, I built

• 29:33Speaker 01

  strength to not quit this journey. And now, it's, it's funny is I'll go talk and, and I'll talk to 250 people and there's Q and A and no one raises their hands. And then I'm, so it's okay. I said, I'm going to be in the elevator and someone's going, oh, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta tell you something. And I'm like, well, why didn't you raise your hand? Uh, you know, and I helped them, but I, now.

• 29:59Rich Roll?

  It's a very personal thing, you know, it's, I think it taps into people's fears and, and, you know, makes them question what their own life trajectory is all about. And that's something that most people are not comfortable discussing in a public forum.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  True, true, true. Uh, you know, but the, the short answer of that is I feel like I have a purpose now. And it, it's not.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Gonna be a world saving purpose, but it could be a lifesaving purpose for one person. And if I can do that.

• 30:34Rich Roll?

  Well, certainly, it's already been that.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would like to think it has, yes.

• 30:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah. So do you look, I mean, do you look back on it now? Like in, in addiction recovery, you always hear the guy who says, like, I'm a grateful alcoholic. Right? And then when I was new in the program, I was like, what does that mean? You know, how could, why would you be grateful for something like that? I understand that now. So I guess my question is, do you look back on what has happened to you with a level of gratitude? Or do you, like, what is your perspective on it? Do you feel like this is, this has been a gift? Or, or does it still, is it still something you, you know, it's, it's a burden? Do you still ask yourself why?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  I don't think I ever looked at it as, as a gift, but I have been asked if I could have that bus miss me. If I can go back in time and have that bus miss me, knowing what I know now, would I? And my honest answer is no. Knowing what I know now, the way I've touched people and my own life, you know, never thought I'd be married, I'm married now, never thought I'd have a child, I have a child. All that would, would go away if I could have that bus miss me. So, no, I, so I, I would say, yes, it's a gift. It, it, it's a gift that's personal to me and my journey.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  And has quite frankly, shaped into the person I was supposed to be.

• 32:03Rich Roll?

  Does that color your idea of spirituality or faith? Or, you know, whether it's religion or some kind of non dogmatic version of that? Like, you know, this idea of everything for a reason?

• 32:16Speaker 01

  It definitely strengthened that, 100%. I, I do believe, I'm a firm believer, everything happens for a reason. And I, I don't believe that everyone answers the call when they have an event like this or when they have any kind of event, and it could be very small.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  And I'm sure that in my life before the accident, there were plenty of times where I've been called to step up and, hey, you have a fight here. Or, you know, you could stay in the bar and continue to drink your beers and have a good time, be, you know, party time. So, yeah, it definitely strengthened my sense of faith and I believe in God. I believe that, you know, he let me or allowed me to survive this accident so that I can keep someone else from quitting.

• 33:08Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And when does, uh, when does the idea of starting to try to, I want to get back to like the timeline, like the idea of wanting to run again, like, you know, certainly you have this, you know, very long, protracted, uh, uh, series of procedures, operations, you know, this idea that, you know, you're going to be crippled, you know, probably in a wheelchair, all of these sorts of things that you're having to weather. Like, I want to walk through that to get to the point where the idea of actually running a marathon starts to enter your mind.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Okay, so, uh, yeah, I spent five months in the hospital. I, when I, when I was hurt, I was probably about a hundred and seventy-six, a hundred and seventy-seven pounds, you know, really in, in good shape. And, um, physically and aerobically, I was, I was in perfect shape. And that had all dwindled away. By the time I am exited in the hospital, I'm a hundred and twenty-two pounds. Can, can, um, stand for maybe two to three minutes at a time.

• 34:10Rich Roll?

  How long were you in the hospital?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Five months.

• 34:12Rich Roll?

  Five months.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, five months and two days, to be exact. And had, I think at that point, I've gone through maybe about thirty, thirty-three surgeries. And it was time to go home, knowing there'd be more surgeries. Uh, so, so there was quite a, a long period of time where my battles became more mental. You know, when in the hospital, you're being taken care of. You know, I had a button. Anything I needed, I hit the button. But now your home is when I started to mentally realize that, wow, this could be the rest of my life. So there was, there was some very low moments where I wished that I had not lived.

• 34:49Rich Roll?

  What was the lowest moment?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  I, you know, we can just be open and I guess the lowest moment is when, you know, I had a cost me bag and I'm in a wheelchair and I'm prepping for a surgery. So I don't know, I don't know why I still had to clean my system out, but I'm just emptying myself all over my bathroom because I can't physically move and I have my number nine, that's what I call him, my younger brother Eddie, number nine, taking care of me, you know, cleaning, cleaning me, cleaning up after me. And, and I, once that was said and done, I just, I just remember saying, you know, I looked over at the counter and I had the medication and the volume of medication to end it.

• 35:35Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  And I never, well, what if I didn't have enough? You know, then what happens? You know, then I'm a burden to everyone. So those thoughts came and gone quickly, quick, you know, I never battled with them too much. They got in my head and I'm like, what am I, you're crazy, you're crazy, you know, you survived, now you gotta get your act together. And it wasn't until a couple of months later after that, that my mom really gave me the old tough, you know, hey, this is it, enough's enough. Gotta, gotta do what you gotta do with your life. You gotta make it the best you can.

• 36:05Rich Roll?

  Right. Good Catholic mom, like slapping you around, gotta come on, wake up.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Slap me around, mm-hmm. And, and basically said, if you want to be a miserable son of a bitch, do it by yourself. And, and that hit home. And then I started to think about all the things that, um...

• 36:18Rich Roll?

  Because she's not going to be codependent in this sort of, you know...

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. She wanted nothing to do with it. She wanted nothing to do with the pity. She's like, look, you're here, you're alive, we're happy, you know, you should be happy and blah, blah, blah, you know, you didn't get hit by the bus, but, but we're here, we were there every night, every day, and we're here now, if you want us to be. You know, much like your journey where your parents said, hey, when you're ready, call us, but until then, you're out. So it was pretty much the same thing.

• 36:45Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  And, and then the attitude changed. At that point, the attitude changed. I, I stopped thinking about the things that were taken from me. I stopped thinking about the words, I can't. And now I joke about it when I talk. I say, if you wake up every morning and say you can't go back to bed, I said, don't go to work because you're useless. Just call the boss. I'm taking that I can't thing. And the attitude became, I will.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Let's say two to three months of really not going through the motions of therapy anymore. Really pay attention to the therapist, really pushing myself. And when they were happy, I stood and walked six steps. I was happy I walked six steps and I said, okay, now what would I do before my accident? Well, let's walk seven steps.

• 37:27Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  And let's walk eight. And now let's do those eight steps faster and on and on and on. And then eventually I said to myself, enough's enough. I have to close this page of my life and move on. And the only way I'm gonna do it is if I'm able to run again. I don't want the bus to take something I loved away from me.

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  You know, I'll leave it on my own terms.

• 37:47Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. When you talk about the physical therapy and rehab, what about the mental and emotional? Like where, you know, the psychologist, the psychiatrist, the shrinks, the emotional aspect of trying to repair yourself?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  I went. I went a couple of times to a psychiatrist and I don't think he was the right match for me.

• 38:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it sounds like that was a misfire.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a big misfire. And I just, you know, I'm kind of that guy, maybe get blindsided in a conversation and you miss all the facts around it. And all I heard was, you know, my tennis elbow keeps me from playing tennis. And I was like, does this freaking guy just tell me his tennis elbow? And that's always in my head and I was like, I'm out of here.

• 38:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you got the wrong guy.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  And then I learned that, you know, sometimes the best therapy is right in front of you. And here I am being driven to therapy by a fireman, a friend of mine, who has a rare blood disease, you know, after being down at nine eleven for months and months. And his fate is unknown, maybe uncurable. And, you know, I'm feeling bad for myself because I may live in a wheelchair. So me and him started to talk. And that became my therapy.

• 39:12Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  You know, I kept sitting here looking at him saying, you know, how do you get up every day, come and take care of me when you don't know what lies ahead for you?

• 39:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 39:24Rich Roll?

  So that's powerful, man. I mean, that's, that's a lot like, you know, I mean, that's basically the foundation of addiction recovery, one addict or alcoholic talking to another.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:34Rich Roll?

  Being able to share that, that common experience.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  We.

• 39:38Rich Roll?

  Find strength in that.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  We, and we did. We shared a lot of stories and a lot of our fears and, and he helped me through a lot of things. I mean, I think he might've been one of the first firemen that I was able to cry in front of.

• 39:49Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  You know, um, and, and, and that, that helped, that helped and that, that pushed me and I said, that's it. I haven't been to a psychiatrist since.

• 39:59Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  But now I'm not saying that I don't suffer from any post-traumatic stress or anything. I just deal with it differently.

• 40:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Um, you know, and I'm lucky enough that I could still deal with it on a bike and, you know.

• 40:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, so how, you know, how did Ironman, marathon running, that experience of training, pushing your body, you know, understanding your physical limitations and all of that? How did that play into, um, the physical recovery, going from six steps to seven steps? And, and being able to maintain focus and positivity?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Well, at first it wasn't, um, any help at all because I couldn't let go of the athlete I was or the athlete I was becoming.

• 40:45Rich Roll?

  Actually getting in the way.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  It was getting in the way because as my therapist, um, you know, one of the things we, we started to do and I had, when, when the wheels started turning and I said, I was talking to your wife earlier about it and I said, you know, uh, I started researching everything. I'm doing everything I can to get better. So when some people say, oh, did you try acupuncture? I'm like, I did. Did it work? I go, I don't know.

• 41:07Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  And I'm like, why don't you know? I said, because I did acupuncture. I did, yeah, I did everything together. So I'm going to say, yes, it worked.

• 41:14Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  You know, for me. So I remember when my, my one therapist, I had, um, hired my therapist to come home and one day a week from the hospital, when I was home, I was doing therapy, three days in the hospital, gym, three days, and then two days a week, the therapist came to me. And we would just go out and walk. And, you know, I went from two crutches. We'd walk around a block and I'd go, "Time me." And next week she'd come back. "What was that time you were right there?" And I kept my journal. So when she'd get happy that I walked around a city block in 13 minutes, I started to say, "Well, you know, I'm two miles in already." "The old man's two miles in, 13 minutes? Come on. You know, this is nonsense. Don't get happy for me. This is not a good time."

• 41:57Rich Roll?

  But it's about changing your perspective. It's not about like, "Oh, I'm qualifying for Boston." Or, you know, "How am I gonna get to Kona as an Ironman athlete?" It's, "How am I gonna go around the block, you know, 30 seconds faster than I did last week?"

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Right. And that's when things started to tick and change. And that's when I had to say, for now, I had to say goodbye to the memory of the athlete that was before the bus. And say, "Forget about his results, but don't forget about the work he put in to become that athlete. So let's put that work in here and get faster. And let's put that work in fast and get rid of one crutch. And get on your own feet."

• 42:36Rich Roll?

  So how did you flick that switch? Like, was there something happen? Or was that a gradual kind of realization that that was the attitude you were gonna have to adopt?

• 42:44Speaker 01

  It was very gradual. But I do, it definitely came from the two therapists, that the two girls that helped me, you know, they'd come in, they'd eventually tell me, they'd look, you know, "This is emotionally draining for us. You're making us cry every time we leave here." And I'm like, "Why?" And they're like, "Because you're so hard to accept the progress. You don't see it. You shouldn't be alive. And you're walking around the block. Accept that." And I was like, "Wow." I said, "You know what? You're right."

• 43:13Rich Roll?

  Find the gratitude in that.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I said, "You're right. I'm sorry. And I didn't know I was making you cry." And I said, "You're right. And let's set some goals now. Let's set some things, let's put some things in order." And, you know, I said to myself, once I was walking without, or at least down to a cane, that's when I started to look for other places to go and leave the city for a little while. And that's when I said to myself, "You know what? I will run again." And that's it. And they're like, "All right." So I did it. Yeah, I went out to Arizona. Trained myself, I treated myself like an athlete. I rented a small apartment near the Arizona State.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Found a place that would accept me for therapy and I just in an email, sent them my story, sent them newspaper links and I said, "I want to run again." And these two young, one therapist and one strength coach emailed me back saying, "We'd never tell anyone they couldn't run." And I flew out there, that was it.

• 44:11Rich Roll?

  That was it, just that one little, like that little ray of hope?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yep. The other places I had emailed, some of them wrote back, "Set realistic goals, you've been through a lot." And I was just like, "Delete, delete, delete." I wanted to email them back and it just would have gone nowhere.

• 44:27Rich Roll?

  You'd get in an argument.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, when I saw this email, I said, I called them up, I said, "Where's a good place to live there?" And they said, "Well, why don't you go down by Arizona State?" And I said, "Okay." So, I flew out there with a friend and he flew home the next day. We got an apartment, I got a car with handicap controls, I started driving again, I haven't driven a car in two and a half years. And that was it. I told them my goal, I'm here for three months. I said, "My goal is to get strong enough to run." And the day I left, I ran my first mile.

• 44:59Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Twenty-two minutes.

• 45:01Rich Roll?

  Wow. So, what was it that they had to kind of put back together? Like, what were the mechanics of trying to get you from somebody who was on crutches to somebody who could actually run?

• 45:11Speaker 01

  With him, with them, I went back to basic strength building. And three days a week was therapy, there was some massage therapy involved, more the functional movements that you would get in the hospital, "Let's work on your rotated cuff, let's work on your hip, let's work on your hamstring." And then the two days a week with the strength coach was his method of basically, "Look, your body doesn't just move up and down, it moves in multiple directions. So, let's start teaching those muscles, they have to operate in multiple directions." And we started, you know, he calls it triplex training.

• 45:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  And I was doing very simple stuff in a stretch cage, just lunging to the right, lunging to the left, turning and twisting. And it eventually started to work, started firing up the muscles. In his theory, and I agree now, wholeheartedly, the body wants to be healthy. And when one part of the body can't do its job... The muscles around it say, all right, how can we pitch in? So to this day, I don't have a glute, so like I'm looking at you and I'm sitting, I'm sitting on my my left butt cheek.

• 46:18Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Just to keep me level. If I go like that, you know, I'm down, I have no muscle on the right side for my right glute. So all the muscles around it pitch in to help me walk.

• 46:27Rich Roll?

  Compensate, right.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  So that's what we wanted to do.

• 46:29Rich Roll?

  And what kind of range of motion do you, I mean, you have a titanium rod running down.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  The left leg. And a nine inch titanium screw going through my pelvis from the right side. But my range of motion is pretty good. In fact, it may be more so on my right side because my pelvis was reset almost a half inch to an inch higher. So the, there's a lot of movement on my right side.

• 46:57Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  That I can't control. If I do stretch and stuff like that, I do it with a band or a rope that I learned at the Wharton Performance Center here in the city. Cause they took me to the next level. And I control it because once I get to a certain point, it could be like, whoa. And what happened to your leg? I'm sorry.

• 47:16Rich Roll?

  But when you do, so all right, so when you finally accomplish that goal and you run that one mile, I mean, this is a watershed moment. I mean, this isn't just, it's not just, hey, I want to, I want to run again because I love running. I mean, this is a symbolic, you know, accomplishment that I think means much more than just, you know, I've repaired myself enough that I can move my body better than I could three months prior.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. I was frightened, to be honest with you. I was frightened. I said to them, well,

• 47:49Speaker 01

  you know, we had no attempt at running before this, no attempt. And I said, well, I guess I'll fall three times. If I fall three times, we stop and walk back and go back to work. But I ran the whole way without falling and.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  At the very moment of my last step, I looked at my watch and said, you know, we still got 20 minutes left on our therapy session. Let's go inside and go to work because I want to run the marathon. And they were like, excuse me? I said, I said, yeah, this was a part of the steps I wanted to take. I said, I need to cross that finish line. I said, I don't care how long it takes me, but I need to finish my marathon.

• 48:29Rich Roll?

  And the reaction.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  And they were pretty cool about it. They both actually said, they both, Mark, the therapist was like, you run the marathon, I'll be there. I said, okay. And I said, Kyle, he goes, I'll try. I said, okay. So left Arizona in April.

• 48:52Rich Roll?

  But hold on a second. So is that, is that floating around in your head like, all right, I'm going to get through this one mile. I'm going to make this announcement. I mean, obviously you're thinking about this, but are you thinking like, if I can do this one mile, then I'm going to like, say that the marathon is my goal? Or was that a spontaneous sort of thing that came?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Complete spontaneous. You know, I had always thought about it. It was like, will I ever run again, blah, blah, you know, finish the marathon. But the way it came out was complete spontaneous.

• 49:16Rich Roll?

  Like just the elation of getting through that one mile?

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Getting through to a mile and then knowing to myself, knowing who I was as a person before. I'm very goal driven. I need something to look forward to. Otherwise, I'll fall through the motions again in life. So as soon as I completed that, and their question was, well, what do you want to do now? I said, that's it. I want to run the marathon. I said, but we got 25 minutes left, so let's go back to work. And we started strength building again. And the next day I got on my plane and, and we came home.

• 49:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  And then that's when I started researching, I, well, who takes me to the next step in New York?

• 49:52Rich Roll?

  And who was that?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  All, all fingers pointed to Jim and Phil Wharton of the Wharton Performance Center. They got a place in Arizona and they got a place here. And then he, what he did was, he took me from what I did in Arizona, which was more one dimensional, therapeutic. He took me to more, I'm sorry, over there, I was on all different planes and, and three dimensional exercises. And he took me to, let's concentrate on your weaknesses. Let's, let's get the muscles. Let's give the muscles that have been helping you a break and let's work on the hamstring that doesn't work. Let's work on the glute that doesn't work. Let's fire these up. Let's start thinking about what you're doing. And when I went to him for an evaluation, he

• 50:39Speaker 01

  gave me a piece of paper. He wrote down, he goes, "Write down your medical problems and issues." And I wrote, first of all, it was like two lines. So I just wrote, "Fuck." And put an exclamation point. This, this, Jim came in, he's like, "This guy's fucked." And I said, "Yeah, I'm sorry, Jim. I just, there's nothing else. I just don't want to write anymore about what's wrong." I told him my whole story and he goes, "Damn. All right." He goes, "Let's unfuck you. Let's unfuck you."

• 51:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's tell a new story, you know? Tell me about the pain. Like, you know, there's the, the challenge of trying to run this one mile, but like, what is, what are you experiencing physically when you're trying to do that?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  At this point, I'm still taking some, some pain meds.

• 51:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, what, what kind of meds are you on? What does that look like?

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was still on a low dose of oxy and a slow release, like Percocet, that I learned, pretty much by myself, when and when not to take it so that I would get through the training session or get through the night, you know, of sleep that you need. Cause, you know, to this day, I talk to everyone, everyone I train or people I train with, I'm like, you know, what you're doing now is great, but if you don't rest tomorrow, you're not building yourself, you're not making yourself any stronger. They think they're gonna get it now if they keep trying. So, I was able to deal with the pain on a day-to-day

• 52:08Speaker 01

  basis going through the training regimen and the therapy. It was the pain that I suffered after attempts of running and, you know, going, cause you know, look, now, now, at this point now, I'm doing pain management, but now I'm trying to get onto a marathon plan, you know, in five months. And, you know,

• 52:34Speaker 01

  It's a lot harder to run slow than it is to get it over with in three hours.

• 52:38Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And you're out there for so much longer.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna be out there for double.

• 52:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  The amount of time, you know, and I was, I was out there for seven and a half hours. Um, so, so the, the day after my runs, my recovery days were, were brutal.

• 52:52Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Were really brutal and it all stemmed from my, my lower back or that right side glute, uh, stabilizer muscle area that, that were gone and non-existent. After a couple mi- a couple, not even miles, after a half mile, which would take me, you know, eight to 10 minutes, the, the sway, swagger I had when I run just crushed my back.

• 53:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you ha- yeah, you have so, you're, you're exposing yourself to injuring yourself in all kinds of other crazy ways.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Yup.

• 53:19Rich Roll?

  Trying to do that, right? So, but it's also this transition of going from rehabilitative to being kind of proactively athletic, right? It's taking you out of the context of, we're rehabilitating you after this accident to, okay, you're an athlete and we're preparing you for an event. Like, that's a mental shift as well as a, as a sort of a physical, uh, and kind of program, you know, kind of alteration, the, the way that you're perceiving how you're approaching your day-to-day, you know, physical routine.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and, and going back to a question we talked about before, now this is where I am in marathon training before the accident starts to help me.

• 53:58Rich Roll?

  Right, so now you're starting to think, like, are you starting to feel like, you, yeah, you can tap into this, I know this, like, this feels familiar, like I'm back in that lane.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Right, I'm not, you know, I'm not worried about the time I'm producing in my efforts right now, but I know that I can go the distance. I know that, you know, I've been on those 100-mile bike rides by myself to train myself and I am in, when the, your head starts telling you, what are you doing out here?

• 54:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  You know, maybe you should just pull over and stop. You know, you fight those demons, so I said, I, I've beaten those demons before. I can push myself to the point where others would sit down and take that break, so I just need to know that I, I gotta do it and it's gonna take a lot longer now.

• 54:39Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And what are your buddies telling you now? And like, what's your family saying? I mean, are they, are they being supportive?

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, most of the people were 100% supportive to me. Now, whether they, when I left the room, said, you know, what's he thinking?

• 54:55Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Or we're worried about what's gonna happen if he doesn't, it doesn't work out.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Right. I, so I didn't know too much of that. I had my two friends, Frank Carino and Knoll Flynn, both sub-three-hour marathon runners. They were with me pretty much through my training and they were gonna run the race with me that day. It was like two nights before the marathon. My brother Jim, who was also a fireman, he calls me up. And at this point in training, I got to 14 miles. And it took me about four hours. So Jim Wharton says, and I shut down. Like I, I had to be, actually thank God for cell phones and some of the modern changes in life. I had to call my buddy and say, look, I'm sitting on the side of the road in the park, I can't move. And my hip locked up, my back was seized up.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  They literally came, got me, put me in a cab, picked me up in a firehouse and put me in a garbage pail full of ice. And so I told Jim, I said, Jim Wharton, I said, I couldn't get past 14 miles. We have two months or months, five weeks. I said, what are we gonna do? And he just said, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna adapt, we're gonna adapt. We know we can get it done, we know we can finish, we know you can keep going. He goes, now we just gotta take care of the body, get you there healthy. So we dialed it down and it was more of a mental thing than it was a physical thing now for me to complete that marathon. But, so two nights before the, after that event, my brother calls me up and says,

• 56:24Speaker 01

  you know, the newspapers, the local newspapers are making a story about this fireman making an incredible comeback, less than three years from near fatal accident. He said to me, what are you gonna say to him if you fail? Excuse me, excuse me, what, what did you just say? He said, well, Jim, he goes, Matt, if you don't finish, they're gonna wanna know why. You're a story no matter what now. And what if you don't finish? And I said to him, did you wake up this morning and say you're gonna kick me in the balls? He goes, that's what you just did.

• 57:01Rich Roll?

  Like, well, you know, how is that helpful?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, you know, he, we kinda had a chuckle like we just did. And, and he said, no, I'm just trying to be honest with you. And, and I said, okay, you know, I appreciate it. I said, it took me a little bit of time. And I said, you know what I'm gonna tell him? I said, three years ago, I was supposed to die. If I finish 20 miles tomorrow and leave 6.2 on the course. It's not 6.2 miles of failure, but 20 miles of success behind me. And that's the way I'm gonna look at it.

• 57:34Rich Roll?

  How about just showing up at the, at the start line? You know what I mean?

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Some would think that was a success.

• 57:38Rich Roll?

  You know, it's, it, it goes back to this idea that I know you feel strongly about, which is, it's the journey, man. It's the journey. Like, you had the balls to stand up, the spine to say, I'm gonna tackle this and take this on. And yeah, I might fail, I don't know, but I'm gonna show up for it. And, you know, five weeks earlier, I seized up at 14 miles. And here I am, I'm still going to do this. And whether or not you succeed or fail, I think is irrelevant. And you can't control how, you know, the, the narrative that the media is going to adapt around that. But I would imagine, you know, they're gonna still celebrate the fact that you even tried. And I think, you know, what we haven't really talked about is that you were, you took this on

• 58:19Rich Roll?

  very much in the spotlight because, you know, in the wake of your accident, this was a big story. Right? So people were paying attention. People knew who you were. They're watching you, right? And so the pressure that came along with that, whether you cave and decide, you know, I can't take this on, or you decide to rise to the occasion, that's a story regardless.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right. And it's funny that you say that is because, well, part of the reasons for me leaving New York to go to Arizona was to try to get away from that. And what was the icing on the cake one night and I would, my daily routine became, okay, get the crutches on, get taken care of, get cleaned up, and now I'm going to take the one block journey to Starbucks to get my coffee in the morning and walk back to my apartment. And that was part of me getting out into the fresh air. And the homeless guy outside Starbucks sees me walking in, he goes, "My man, you're the guy that got hit by the bus." And I was like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, man, I've been praying for you." And I'm like, "Well, I'm praying for you too. Thank you very much." And I went inside, I'm like, even the homeless

• 59:25Speaker 01

  guy knows who I am. So I need to get away.

• 59:28Rich Roll?

  That's so funny. All right. So, all right. So you get that phone call, you have that 14-mile, you know, experience. I mean, was that still your longest run leading up into the marathon? So you didn't try to go out there and trump that before race day?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Nope, I didn't try again. I kept, I kept any outdoor running to between three and five miles. And we were down to three days a week at that. And then everything else was done either just to build some aerobic power. And I was swimming, I was doing indoor cycling, and I was on the elliptical. So I would, to mix it up, I would do maybe all three for an hour. Or there were times when I was on an elliptical for three hours.

• 1:00:17Rich Roll?

  Right. But just not as much pounding, pavement pounding. And the recovery time has to be far greater. And what else you're doing, I would imagine you're doing ice baths, you know, the rest aspect of what you were doing had to really require a bunch of focus.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And I was doing ice baths. I was doing acupuncture this time. I was doing everything to try to regenerate nerves. You know, I was taking every recovery supplement that, you know, you read about. "Oh, someone's doing this? Okay, I'll do that." "No, no, put your left hand in the air when you do that." I'm like, "Oh, anything. This worked for me." I was trying it all. I was really trying it all. So.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  More importantly, you know, I was mentally focused and you're right, you're 100% right. Looking back, it is about the journey more than it is about the finish. But my journey wasn't over until I, for me, until I crossed that finish line. You know, mentally, it kind of gave me this, gave me this victory over, so maybe it wasn't really about crossing the finish line at the marathon, but giving me the victory over the bus to say, well, you didn't take running from me. You know, I'm not fast anymore, I don't even look good when I'm running, but you didn't take it away from me. You know, I still have that if I won it.

• 1:01:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it doesn't have that power over you.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Right. And, you know, I obviously went further from that day, but at some point it turned around and said, well, these are the things I love, these are the things that strengthened me, these are the things that gave me enjoyment, and I still have them, but now I'm leaving them on my terms, not because you hit me.

• 1:01:58Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, right. And when you show up on race day, are you thinking, I'm finishing this thing? Or are you thinking, I don't know, man, but I'm here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a try? Like, what's the mental state?

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Marathon Sunday, you know, they gave me a three-hour head start with the Achilles track athletes. And I was grateful because I was like, oh, you know, the firemen are all gonna be done, everyone's gonna be done out partying already. Like I said, party, everything, party marathon. So I had appealed to the Achilles Track Club and they were grateful enough to let me start with them. And there was about 30 of us, hand cycles, wheelchair, amputees, blind runners. It was amazing. And from the naked eye, nothing really looked, until I started to move. You wouldn't think anything was wrong with me. Mary Wittenberg, the head of New York Roadrunners,

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  she gave me a big shout out as she started that little group of Achilles athletes. And I used to tell my friends all day, like, oh, challenged athletes. I'm like, wow, I'm not a challenged athlete. I said, I'm an athlete with challenges. There's a big difference. So that's the way I kind of looked at it. And I didn't know if I'd finish. Okay, but multiple little things happened along people I saw. In fact, so since I had a three hour head start, the firemen weren't even at the starting line yet.

• 1:03:24Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  They were still at the hotel in the city loading their buses. And as I'm going over the Arizona Bridge,

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  line of buses stopped and they're out the windows yelling my name, waving their flags. And I was just like, wow, like, go, Matty. They all passed me at mile 16.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  So that was a kick in the balls right there.

• 1:03:45Rich Roll?

  Well, you gotta be that guy who's like, you know, here come the elite women. Here come the athletes.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was my first up close and personal view of Cara Gaucho.

• 1:03:55Rich Roll?

  Right. Paula Radcliffe.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  She's pretty cute.

• 1:04:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, wow. So, so, you know, walk me through that experience. I mean, you know, there's nothing like the New York Marathon. I mean, just the incredible, you know, environment, the supportive, you know, crowds the entire way. I mean, there's just, there's, there's no other race like it. And for you to be this hometown story, you know, that everybody is kind of, you know, they're up to speed on, everybody knows what's going on with you. I mean, it had to be, you know, despite the incredible challenges and struggles of trying to get through those 26 miles to kind of absorb that support along the way had to carry you quite a bit.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  It absolutely did. And luckily enough that, that I've involved myself in New York City so much through firemen, through growing up in Brooklyn, that, you know,

• 1:04:49Rich Roll?

  Like, we didn't even talk about you being like at ground zero and nine 11, the experience of nine 11 and all of that. I mean, it's just, you're, you're, you're part of the fabric of this city.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. That's a good way to look at it. It's true. And fortunate for me, that 26-point mile journey, at every point, there was someone there that, at this point, where the same reason why I left New York City is why, what I needed to finish this marathon, I needed someone to say, "There's Matt." "Yo, there's the guy."

• 1:05:20Rich Roll?

  I'm sure you got a lot of that.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  I got a lot. I got a lot of it for the first nine miles, because it was just us. It was just me, Noel, Frank, and Charlie Butler, the guy who co-wrote my book with me. And so we got a lot of that in the early morning. And then when the runners started coming by me, you know, I started with 30 Achilles Track Club athletes, and I finished in 40,000th place. So 39,970 people passed me, and a good chunk of them patted me on the back as they went by or gave me words of encouragement. So they pushed me through a lot of the early miles. And then you hit mile 14 to 16, you're on First Avenue.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Well, that's where I just lived for five months in a hospital, my therapist. They were out, you know, on the avenue cheering me on at the finish line. My doctors and his family were there. And one of the best moments of my finish, you know, I was emotional, I cried, and my family was there. But one of the best moments is when my trauma surgeon, Dean Lorich, has, I think he's three girls now, and his baby was born just a month or two after I was hurt. And he had to leave his home during Christmas, he had to leave, he had to get his wife out of bedrest, and to get, only to get to the hospital just to help be a part of saving my life. And he looked at his daughter and said, his older daughters, and said, "This is why daddy's not home."

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  And, you know, I looked at them and I said, "Thank you. Thank you for understanding that." You know, because that's tough. He's a trauma surgeon. He's just not a guy you make an appointment with. And that was one of my best moments with him, at least. I'm still friends with him, and I'm very grateful that they... That they sacrificed their lives and had their call and to be the best that they could be.

• 1:07:13Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Extraordinary. Yeah, I mean, it's easy to kind of go, oh, you know, Matt and his, you know, amazingly inspirational story and look, look what he did. And that, that belies the fact that there is this extraordinary team of people, you know, behind every success, whether athletic, professional, or otherwise, like you don't get there alone. And, you know, it's cool to hear you recognize all the people that help you on your journey.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  You definitely don't get there alone. You don't, you know, whether you meet them when you're falling down that ladder again, you know, to, I don't know, but, but you don't, you don't achieve true success by yourself. And whether that's happiness or financial success, whatever, you don't, you know, and that person, I'd be wary of the person who says, I did this by myself. I'm self-made. And screw you, because that's what he would do, or she would do.

• 1:08:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, self-made is an illusion, I think. So, so what was the feeling when you crossed the finish line?

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  You know, at first, I, I remember the finish line and there's some controversy around my finish. It was a probably bad judgment call, but I don't know if you ever seen the videos, Rich, but there was an incident right before the finish. Now, let's, let's put, let me not defend my actions, but let me, I'll tell you them because it's part of what I did. So you have to own up to it. I'm out there for seven hours and 18 minutes. At mile 25.8, I stopped.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  And didn't say, didn't say a word. I was in pain. I wanted to quit. And I only had, you know, four tenths of a mile to go. I wanted to quit. I really did. And the guys, now at this point, I was only running with three other people. But at this point, a so-called entourage have, has come around me. Other people have given up their day to run with me. And now the group, pack grew to maybe 17 people. And

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  You know, I would say that my vision was blurred. I would say that, you know, I was not thinking straight. And we turn, get into the park, I start running again. And there's a gentleman jumping up and down at the finish line. And not in any hurry to finish. In fact, he had a video camera and he was just kind of videoing the crowd applauding at the line. And I just kept saying to myself that, you know, I had a path and he's there. And I'm not gonna fall down at the finish. Like, this is, you know, where I'm going. So I kinda Heisman Trophy'd this runner.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  And went on my way and crossed the finish line, dropped down the floor, do ten pushups. Cause I wanted to do pushups before I started bawling crying, which didn't help, because I got up and bawled and cried anyway. But it was a big controversy about the push and why did I push him? You go back to the videotape, he was, he wasn't in your way.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  Do I regret pushing him? Yes. Do I own up to the fact that I pushed him? Yes.

• 1:10:29Rich Roll?

  Were you delirious? Were you, you know?

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  I could come up with a thousand excuses. Instead, I just decided to say, in the internet world of slow twitch and the people that were killing me for it and calling me a bad person, I just came out and basically said, you know what? You're right. You know, I shouldn't have done it. And if I could apologize to this runner, I would.

• 1:10:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, speaking from somebody who has some experience with being delirious in the midst of an endurance challenge, you know, it brings out a certain aspect of who you are that might not always be so pretty. I mean, I had, you know, a similar experience when I did Epic Five and I was beyond tired and could barely, you know, function. And that's what they always say, like in these ultra endurance races, don't bring your friends as your crew members.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  They won't be your friends anymore.

• 1:11:17Rich Roll?

  There's dark, there's dark moments, you know, where then you come out of it and you're like, I can't believe I behaved like that. So. You know, this, I, you know, I think that, that for anybody who hasn't sort of walked a mile in the shoes of, of what that is like, that they should reserve judgment on that. But, you know, I haven't seen the video, but thanks for being honest and open about that. But, you know, so you have this extreme, you know, extraordinary experience of finishing this marathon, then it's this big story, then Runner's World writes this, you know, remarkable article about it. I mean, and that's, I, my understanding is that's what kind of paved the way for you to write the book and everything that's come from that. I mean, is that how that came about?

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely, 100%. The, the, in fact, we were working on the article before I even dreamed of running the marathon again. The 2000, and so I was 2005 that I, my last marathon, got hurt 2005. So the 2006 marathon, Charlie Butler was working for Runner's World, and he was doing a story of the gangs of New York, the different, the different running teams in New York. And two of the teams were the police and the firemen. So, they had made shirts this year, they had shirts that said, "Go Long" on the back. And it was for me, and they didn't make a stink about it, they just did it. I didn't know about it

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  until race day. And Charlie was asking them, "Well, what's this Go Long?" And one of my friends, Tom Grimshaw, who's a little bit older than me, but was a big influence in my running, told them the story. And he's like, "Wow, I'd like to get in touch with him, you know, another story." And Charlie and I had met a couple of times, and, and I was still not in a really good place. So, the meetings we had were, he was still intrigued, but I was kind of like, whatever. And then I disappeared on him for about six months. I went to Arizona, and I did my thing, and, and I came home, and I emailed him, "Mr. Charlie, it's Matt Long, and I haven't been around, but, um, you still interested?" And he's like, "Well, I'm not sure, you know, what are you doing?" I go, The marathon?

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  And he's like, hello? Email stopped, the phone call, then we sat down and did the story. And it wound up being the largest article Runners World ever published on a single athlete. It was like 14 pages. And then we guessed and Runners World and Charlie and I turned it into the long run.

• 1:13:42Rich Roll?

  Into the book. And the book, you know, had an extraordinary life. It was an incredible success and I'm sure, you know, opened up tons of doors for you.

• 1:13:58Rich Roll?

  I mean, I would say, how has it changed? But like, how has it not changed? You know, I mean, everything about your life is different.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've lived a good life. I really have. But, but, you know, being able to, to spread any bit of inspiration is truly a gift that, that I'm happy to have. So the book, getting my story out a little further, don't, you know, don't get me wrong. There's, there's some places I go and it's, you know, this is great because it's gonna put the kids through school or it's gonna, you know, pay some bills. But, but the bottom line is, you know, when I get out there and I'm able to help one person, and I always get an email, it doesn't matter, you know, you get the email, you get it just stopped in the elevator, wherever, and they tell you their story. And then they realize that, that, you know, they're not the only ones out there having a tough time.

• 1:14:51Rich Roll?

  One of the things that I always talk about is the incredible resiliency of resilience. Resiliency? Resilience of the

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  It worked.

• 1:15:01Rich Roll?

  The human body, the human spirit. You're certainly an example of that. I mean, how do you kind of, you know, when you were talking about like, I'm trying to regenerate these nerve endings and, you know, that's on the like micro level of like repairing the body. But, but it goes all the way to

• 1:15:20Rich Roll?

  You know, the highest level of repairing your spirit, your perspective of the world, you know, your role, what is your legacy, what is your gift and what are you leaving behind? And there's nothing more powerful than a story, a story well told, an incredible story well told. You're certainly that. I mean, how do you, you know, kind of look at this path and translate that into something that somebody can extract something to help them, right? That's not very well said, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, how do you take your story and say, all right, how can I convey

• 1:16:02Rich Roll?

  my experience in a way that somebody can take something from that and implement it into their life for the better?

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  You know, I think it's, I think it could be simply answered with two words or replacing words, and it's basically starting your day with, I will. Whatever that means for you, whatever's at task for the day, the week, the month, whatever your goals are, you know, the body intrinsically wants to be healthy. So you don't have a bad back. Now, look, there are people with back problems and things with real issues, but a lot of people have a bad back because they're sanitary. They just sit around and they're not active. The body wants to move. The body wants to get up.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  So that bad back could be telling 85% of the people in this world, get up, you know, lose 10 pounds, strengthen your core, and the back will suffer. I had a bad back. I went to chiropractic. I started running. I got in shape. The back pain went away. The body wants to be healthy. So what I talk to people about is, look, I'm not telling you go out and do an Ironman. I'm not telling you go out and do a marathon. You know, find what it is for you that's going to make you happy and do it. I use the analogy of the stove, you know, which has come a long way, but when I was growing up or when I worked in Harlem, it was always just an old school stove with a pilot light in the middle and, you know, that light went out, you had a gas leak.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  I said, the human spirit is what will drive you to heal your body, and that human spirit is the pilot light. Someone's got to turn the knob on. And for me, it was my mom who said, you know, let's get those burners going. And once I did that, you know, am I perfectly healed now? No, I walk with a limp, I stabilize, I can't stand on my right leg. I can't move my right arm higher than, you know, 95%. But, but I'm healed mentally because of my human spirit. You know, that is, there's nothing wrong with it. There's no metal in my spirit.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  There's no, it's just there and it flows because, you know, I, I love my family extended and my own. And, and I, I try now to stay as healthy as I can so that when I'm older, I know what's ahead of me. I know it's arthritis is coming and what, what, I know it's going to be ahead of me when I'm older. But I'm going to be as healthy and as strong mentally so that I can handle that. And that's what I try to tell people, I'm like, you know, you have it. You, me and you are exactly the same. We have the same pilot light.

• 1:18:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Just gotta turn it on.

• 1:18:37Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. So, but if somebody's out there who's listening and they feel stuck, they're struggling, uh, you know, they're out of shape or they just don't know what the first thing to do is. Like they don't know, you know, how to turn that pilot light on, or they don't know who that person is in their life that they can turn to or rely on. Like, how do you, you know, what is the message?

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  The, the message would be to do an inventory check on your life. And it may be one of the hardest decisions you have to make when you do that inventory check because you'll find out who it is or what it is that's keeping you back. And, you know, it could be the person that's closest to you. We have to say, you know what? I just can't deal anymore. I can't do it anymore. I can't be around the negativity that's going to keep me in this hole. You know, and, and, and, you know, I said that, like, I've lost friendships post accident.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  You know, there were guys that just were happy enough that I lived and said, deal with it. You know, it is it, you're okay. You know, we'll go out with you in a wheelchair. And I'm like, well, that's not what I want. And that attitude, that energy, you know, and I'm not, you know, this big, you know, atmospheric, uh, you know, it's in the stars type of guy, but that energy is not helping me. You know, I don't need the person to tell me. Just be happy with being alive. I said, well, what's good is being alive if not living. And to me, living was running, living was being active, living was staying in shape. So, you know, here I would tell this person, you have to do an inventory check. Find out, go back to being a kid. What was going on in your life when you were happy?

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  And I tell people all the time, I realize it, I did those inventory checks more than once because again, we didn't talk about nine eleven. But after nine eleven, I battled a little depression and I started to do an inventory check.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  What was I doing in the times of my life when I was happiest? And it came down to one thing. I was dreaming. Simple. As a kid, you dream, as an adult, we set goals. It's the same freaking thing. So for me, that is what I found. And I started to dream again about running, about cycling, about having a family, and I have it.

• 1:20:57Rich Roll?

  Amen, brother. I love that.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:20:59Rich Roll?

  You know, you said earlier that that that goals are really important to you to help keep you structured and focused and whether it's dreaming or or goal setting. So, you know, what's the goal now? What do you dream about now or what's next?

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Well, you know, athletically is how it goes for me, you know. So I'm forty nine, or I'll be forty nine this year. And this is something you, this is something you probably don't know. So after my bus accident, like what else can happen to me, right? I was like, wow, the guy hit by a bus and he lives. It's like, you know, how much his bad luck cards are over, you know? So I show up at a bike race in Central Park and I line up with the cat fives and some guy looks at me and says, hey, aren't you the guy hit by a bus? I'm like, yeah. He goes, what are you doing here? So I said, I'm gonna try to race with you guys. And he's like, really? So boom, gun goes off and we start our first, like seventy guys, and we start our first

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  lap around Central Park and the first climb, my right glute is evident. I'm done, I'm dropped, can't get back in the field. I roll around my five or six laps and at the end of the race, I see that guy again. He goes, how'd it go? I said, I was dropped, dropped in the first lap. He goes, you know.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  You should be trying out with the power athletes. And I never looked at myself like that. So I said, what? You know, I took it into it. I went home, I started Googling it and researching it. I'm like, you know, I emailed the guy from the Para Cycling Committee. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without a doubt. I sent him my information. So I go, now my goal, back, this is in 2010, 2010, right after I finished the Ironman, is to become a paracyclist and go to the Olympics. So I go down to Augusta, Georgia for the Paranational Cyclists, Cyclone Champions, Road Champions. Again, I did it without asking questions, so I didn't know what was really going on. I went down there, had my road bike.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  I signed up for the long course road race as a C3 classified paracyclist. All the C1 through C5 raced together. So we're in a pack of 50, 60 people, men and women. Oh, no, the women actually started behind, behind us because I got passed by quite a few of them. So amputees, you know, they're all there in the pack and you go and you finish. So I really never had an idea of what was going to happen at the end of this 28 mile race. But I finished, crossed the line, and I get called up for a gold medal. So I'm a paranational champion. And I'm like looking around and they're not calling anyone else. So I go up to the podium and I'm like, who'd I beat? And the guy's like, oh, you're the only one in the race.

• 1:23:39Rich Roll?

  You're like, you're in your category, like what is?

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  So I was like, so it goes in line with the men's fitness thing. I was like, well, I'll take it, but don't make me stand on the podium.

• 1:23:48Rich Roll?

  Go where the herd is thin, right?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  So it turns out that in the, the American paranational racing is so far behind European that they really only concentrate on time trial and track here. Because Europe's so far ahead of us. So when they go to the Olympics, they, they want to send, so all the C3 guys were in the hotel sleeping for the time trial the next day and I didn't compete in that.

• 1:24:13Rich Roll?

  I got you.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  So anyway, so my-

• 1:24:16Rich Roll?

  So where are you taking this?

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  So I'm, I'm, now I'm talking to the coach. I'm like, well, you know, can I do this? Can I try this? He's like, absolutely. You need to get officially certified in your injury. I said, no problem. And he gave me like, you know, some coaching tips. And I said, well, I'm going to start to train for 2012 London Olympics. He's like, awesome. So I go to uh my two thousand uh eleven year start in Florida to do a ten day, you know, summer trip. First day I get hit by a Buick.

• 1:24:46Rich Roll?

  No way.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Broke my arm, slid across the road.

• 1:24:49Rich Roll?

  Ah, I didn't know that. Oh, my god.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  So that I remember completely. That hurt. I didn't lose consciousness.

• 1:24:57Rich Roll?

  I thought you were pre-disaster. You know, like, that's not supposed to happen again.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  No, I was like.

• 1:25:02Rich Roll?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Me and my buddy were were cruising down. And again, my friend Noel Flynn, who ran with me, he was he came down the Cyclone trip. He was into Cyclone and Triathlon. So um I'm I'm right on his wheel. And I'm like, this is great. We're feeling awesome. I'm like, yeah, this good. What what's it say? I'm like, ah, twenty five, twenty five miles an hour. Let's go, let's go. We had a mile to go. Forty nine, the forty ninth mile, we had a mile to go home. And a car turns right in front of us. I hear him yell, fuck. And I'm like, ah. He goes up and over. I slid under, landed into the side of the car.

• 1:25:32Rich Roll?

  You slid under the car.

• 1:25:32Speaker 01

  No, like, hit the side of it, like slid the floor into the broke my arm, you know, road rash. The the the if we have time, the long, the funny story about it is it happened in front of a bar in in Clearwater Beach called um Krabby Bills.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  The bar empties out because we got there for the first day. So it was like four o'clock. It was a late day riding. The bar empties out and there's a whole bunch of guys. So the fire trucks, they're they're putting me in the Stokes basket. They're they're stabilizing my neck and and my friend. So I tell the fireman, I go, listen, guys, I'm a New York City firefighter, and thank God I had my fire department kit on. So they're like, oh, okay. So just don't take me to a bad hospital, you know. I don't want any special, just get me to a good hospital, New York City fireman. Please just take me where you would go. And they're like, I don't worry about it. We'll we'll take care of you. And um I now I'm wrapped up so I can only see straight. And I hear the the paramedic go to someone on the side of the road, say, yeah, you're a fireman? And the guy's like, yeah, yeah, I'm a fireman. He's like, so is the guy on the street. Oh, yeah? What's his name? I

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  said, what's your name? So I say my name. All you hear is the guy go, again? I'm going, trying to look like, who is that?

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  So I'm in the emergency room in Florida and the nurse comes in and says, Mr. Long? And I go, yeah, yeah, it's me. You got a visitor, I go. The only guy that knows I'm here is in the bed next to me. And three drunk firemen came in to visit me.

• 1:26:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:26:59Rich Roll?

  The fraternity, though, man. Wherever you go, right?

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:27:02Rich Roll?

  Wherever you go. That's amazing.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  That ended my quest.

• 1:27:06Rich Roll?

  So that ended your quest. So where does that leave you now, though? Are you like back on the bike?

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm back at it. I'm back racing my bike. A little more focused because I'm still racing as a CAT 5 and still having problems staying with them. But this year, I really focused, started a program with a cycling team in Brooklyn. And I'm making every, you know, it's not when you're in your 40s and you're training for something, it's not like you have tomorrow. Like, ah, it's getting done tomorrow. It's like, wait a minute. You know, every second's got to count here. I got a two-year-old.

• 1:27:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  You know, so everything's got to count. So I'm really, I think for the first time in my life as an athlete, I'm training with a purpose. You know, with a, every workout has a reason. Every workout has a certain time that has to get done and everything's going pretty smooth so far. So, yeah, I'm still, I want to race. My wife knows I want to race. She knows it keeps me going.

• 1:28:07Rich Roll?

  That's great, man.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:28:09Rich Roll?

  And do you go, so you ride out in Brooklyn or do you ride it in Central Park? Like, where do you do your rides around here?

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's tough to ride around New York City. I ride out in Rockaway Beach is where I live. And so I'll ride into Brooklyn to the Prospect Park area. We'll also come over the bridges. I call it like a four-bridge ride I do. I'll come over from Rockaway to Brooklyn, then from Brooklyn to Manhattan, then Manhattan to New Jersey, hit state line in New Jersey, then come back and repeat for about 100 miles.

• 1:28:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, nice.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  So, but getting into Central Park has gone through some changes, there's some unfortunate accidents.

• 1:28:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  You know, there's just a lot of people and, you know, you really, you really, I'm getting a lot of it done indoors now.

• 1:28:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  You know, because I know plenty of pros that do this stuff.

• 1:28:54Rich Roll?

  You can't get hit a third time, man.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  I'm running out of lives.

• 1:28:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, or you gotta move out to California, ride some of the mountains around where we live.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would love that. I would love to, to, to take a journey one day and see what it's like. My wife was actually born in San Diego.

• 1:29:09Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Rich Roll?

  Well, you could just start training camps.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Rich Roll?

  Come on, man.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  I, I do, I do get away to, uh, with a group from, that actually built my bikes for me, because my bikes are custom made.

• 1:29:19Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  And, um, I go to, I've been to Mallorca three times.

• 1:29:23Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow, nice.

• 1:29:24Speaker 01

  Riding in Europe is so different than riding here. It's just, the, the people, you know, the cars beep the horn and to, to wish you good luck.

• 1:29:31Rich Roll?

  The culture, yeah, it's the culture.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Rich Roll?

  It's the culture. Well, that's cool, man. Uh, let's, I think that's a good place to wrap it up and close it down.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Great. I'm, I'm, uh, super stoked that you had me and it's really awesome.

• 1:29:43Rich Roll?

  Oh, man, are you kidding? I'm so glad that you came and did this. Uh, you're, you know, I'm sure you get fatigue of hearing this, but you are an inspiration. Your story is extraordinary and it really is a, you know, a beacon of light for, for so many people and, uh, and I hope that you keep doing what you're doing, man, and spreading your message.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:30:02Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna write, you gonna write another book?

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:30:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  I, I don't know, you know, we talk about, we, we, I'd be honest with you, we're focusing on making the book a movie.

• 1:30:11Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Oh, cool, man.

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:30:12Rich Roll?

  Is there, is there some activity behind that? Some option and stuff?

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  There, there's a little activity, yeah. We have, we have a guy in California that's turned it into a screenplay. And he's shopping it around a little bit. It's very early and it could never, ever get done. Um, but he's pretty passionate about getting it done and, and, and I just said, as long as it could be done right and tastefully. And if you really think that it will further the message, uh, and he believes it will, so, you know, I, it's my story. Who wouldn't want to have a movie about themselves, you know?

• 1:30:42Rich Roll?

  Of course, man, that's cool.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  I, I still, you know, it, it, you know, it's funny is I get a lot of crap for my personality. I just have one of those personalities. I can come across to someone the first time I meet him as his cockiest son of a bitch they ever met. Or I, I just like to say to people that I've always had a, a certain level of confidence.

• 1:31:01Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  And there's nothing wrong with it, you know, so, yeah, I guess it'd be awesome.

• 1:31:06Rich Roll?

  You're a New Yorker, man.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm a New Yorker.

• 1:31:08Rich Roll?

  Embrace it, right?

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  More than that, I'm from Brooklyn.

• 1:31:11Rich Roll?

  And what about the, uh, the, what's going on with the I Will Foundation? You didn't even talk about that, right?

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, my, my foundation, so, you know, the foundation was birthed out of me saying the words "I will." And, um, I, it to real, and I can go real quick with it, is that, um, I, I called a gentleman, um, who I read an article about that was hurt. He's from Massachusetts, Fabio Slavic. Um, to this day, I can't believe it, I still haven't met this guy. But I, I got him through the power of the internet. We had phone calls and I basically said to him, "Please," I said, you know, you, everything mirrored what happened to me happened to you. "Help me and I'll help others." And he's helped me tremendously and, um, without knowing him, a perfect stranger.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  And, um, so I said, "I don't want Fabio to be so hard to find for the next Matt Long." So I, originally it was gonna be a webpage, I Will Foundation, Matt Long Story, you know, "Take From What You Can and, and, and Go." And then people started sending me money, you know? "Oh, I love it." And so now I started helping people. So it's, it's small because it's me, it's out of my house. Um, any money I get, I try to give right to someone who needs help. And we've helped vets come home, we've, we've remodeled kitchens and bathrooms for vets that are now paralyzed. I've, I've, I've taken a guy with no arms, built a bike for him, and he rode the bike from Florida to Spokane, Washington.

• 1:32:38Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  He's now doing a big thing in Paris. I've, I know, I'm not gonna know the name, but he's riding like 1,200 miles in Paris.

• 1:32:43Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  And, um, we helped a girl who was born with polio be the first woman to complete Ironman Kona in a wheelchair.

• 1:32:51Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm, wow.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  So it's, it's just about getting in there and helping them right away. I don't want it to become, uh, where I have a building and where 30% go to expenses. It's like, people write me letters and unfortunately sometimes I have to say no. Or people write me letters and say, "This is what I want to..." In fact, I'll give the real quick story of it.

• 1:33:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  One day I'm walking in, now I'm moving out of Manhattan, my life is changing, I'm married, and I'm looking for my bike shop now. I have bike shops in Manhattan. So I, I go into this bike shop in Sheepshead Bay, Roy's Bike Shop. And I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm looking for this and this and that." And they're like, "Great." And this gentleman comes in and he's talking about his bike and how it got stolen, and he kind of walks away. And I, just being, I guess, that nosy New Yorker, I said to the guy behind the counter, I said, "What's, let's deal with this guy." He's gone, he lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. So I looked down and noticed that he was an amputee.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  And he's kinda like in and out, living in like a shelter or something. And you know, his bike was his only way to get around and make some dollars. We gave him a bike. And you know, the staff here, we really can't do it again. He left it outside, it got stolen.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  So I said, today's his lucky day. I said, here's $2,500, set him up. And we bought, we bought, bought him a bike. You know, just helped this individual.

• 1:34:12Rich Roll?

  That's a nice bike.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  That was the budget. He did get a nice bike. He upgraded for sure.

• 1:34:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  But he got a $2,500 bike and they put a special pedal on it for his leg. And, and, and it, that's something you can't do with a bigger organization. So that's the way I want to keep the I Will Foundation. So it's there, iwillfoundation.com. My story's there, there's other people's stories there. It's not just about me. And we try to help people that, that have that spirit to live.

• 1:34:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, very cool. And are you, are you speaking anytime soon where the public can check you out? Like what's the speaking schedule look like? Or is that on your website?

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  My own website, mattlongspeaker.com will have events up. But right now, the only two on the schedule are private events.

• 1:34:59Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  You know, marathon, half marathon season comes around. Usually I'm involved with the road runners. Hopefully I'm back with them. So maybe at those events, we'll, we'll be around.

• 1:35:09Rich Roll?

  Right on. All right, so people, so people who want to check out more about your story, obviously the book, The Long Run. You can find that on Amazon, click through the Amazon banner at ritual.com. Your website and you're on Twitter, Facebook, all that kind of stuff.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  Yep. Matt, at Matt's Long Run.

• 1:35:27Rich Roll?

  Matt's Long Run. Matt's Long Run, it's matt'slongrun.com too, right? You have that site or?

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  That has changed to Matt Long Speaker.

• 1:35:34Rich Roll?

  Matt Long Speaker.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, made it more of a personal site.

• 1:35:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool, man. All right, well, thanks so much for talking to me.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:35:40Rich Roll?

  I appreciate it, man.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Good to be back in the neighborhood here.

• 1:35:43Rich Roll?

  Cool. Yeah, you gonna go over to Third and Long now?

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  I'm gonna take a peek at the old Third and Long.

• 1:35:47Rich Roll?

  The old bar, right?

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  See what's going on.

• 1:35:49Rich Roll?

  Right around the corner. Cool, man, thanks.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  All right, thank you.

• 1:35:51Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plants.

• 1:35:58Rich Roll?

  All right, you guys, I think we did it. Check out Matt's book. Follow him online. What an incredible story. If that doesn't inspire you, I don't know what will. Maybe you don't have a heartbeat. He is an extraordinary human being, and that was great. I love that. And hopefully, his experience will help you rethink your excuses for doing less than what you know you can, let alone the part about you that you're not even sure yet that you can do, but which somebody like Matt would probably tell you that you can if you would only accept that in yourself. How's that for a brain teaser? Send me your questions for future Q&A podcasts. And to find all the information, education products, tools, resources, and inspiration

• 1:36:42Rich Roll?

  you need to take your health, your wellness, your fitness, and your self-actualization to the next level, go to richroll.com. Peruse. Enjoy. Don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. If you guys like video courses, you're into a little online education, then you might enjoy checking out my online courses, because I've got two of them. The first one is The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. It's all about dialing up your diet. It's pretty consistent with the message of the new book. And also, The Art of Living with Purpose, which is about goal-setting, which is about understanding what makes you tick, helping you embark on the right trajectory for you. Both of those are available at mindbodygreen.com. Click on "Video Courses" on their homepage, and you can find out more there.

• 1:37:27Rich Roll?

  If you are enjoying this podcast, hey, man, give us a review on iTunes. It only takes a moment. And if you like it so much, you want to go back and listen to episodes older than the most recent 50, then why not check out our free iOS app in the iTunes App Store? It's totally free, and it is the only way to easily access every single episode in the RRP canon. Support the show by telling a friend, use the Amazon banner ad, and by donating. You can donate. There are donate buttons on the site, too. Keep Instagramming. I love the love. Tag me, @RichRoll. I dig that, too. Let's close it down with this week's assignment. It's pretty freaking simple. And it goes like this. Stop whining.

• 1:38:12Rich Roll?

  Stop whining, people. If you take one thing away from Matt and his example...

• 1:38:20Rich Roll?

  It said you should stop whining. Seriously. Really.

• 1:38:26Rich Roll?

  See you next week. Peace.

• 1:38:30Rich Roll?

  Plants.