Episode 341

When Sean Lannon arrived at his uncle Mike’s house in March 2021, it appeared to be the start of a family tragedy. But, as investigators investigated further, a much darker story started to come to light - one that spanned across states and years, prompting everyone to question how well they truly knew him. Get instant access to all episodes, including premium unreleased episodes, commercial-free at swordandscale.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 0:43Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:14Speaker 01

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• 1:41Speaker 02

  Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

• 2:02Mike Boudet?

  2026 has been a weird year, hasn't it? And it's barely begun.

• 2:09Mike Boudet?

  Man. When everyone looks at something and half the population sees one thing and the other half sees something completely different. We're cooked. We are done. Stick a fork in it.

• 2:49Mike Boudet?

  This is season 13, episode 341, by the way, and it's all about trying to figure out what's right when nothing is. You know, kind of like 2026.

• 3:10Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Build with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 3:53Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota. Let's go places.

• 4:40Mike Boudet?

  It was March 8th, 2021, in the small community of Mickleton, New Jersey. Police cars swarmed the neighborhood. Flashes of blue light started across the living room windows. The quiet street was swallowed by chaos.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  I look out the window and there are a bunch of, you know, police officers were out here and when we see, had to come out and see what the commotion was about and it wasn't good.

• 5:06Mike Boudet?

  It wasn't good. In a community with crime rates well below the national average, no one expected a violent crime, let alone the murder of a senior citizen. This rare crime would go down as the only murder in the community for years.

• 5:22Speaker 04

  Never issues like this, never seen anything like this. Everybody kind of, you know, keeps themselves, the neighborhood's really nice people. Everybody, it's just, it's a shock when something like this happens.

• 5:31Mike Boudet?

  66-year-old Michael Debkowski was found murdered in his laundry room. He was bludgeoned in the head, his face masked in a sweatshirt. The only thing missing from the home was his car.

• 5:46Speaker 05

  I was really shocked, I was really upset to find out like who it was.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  Mike was a real good guy, you know, he was the type of guy that would help you out if you need a hand, if he see you out in the yard working, always wee when he go by, always had a kind thing to say to you. Never seen him, you know, mad, just, it's a total shock that it happened to him.

• 6:05Mike Boudet?

  Mike never married. Instead, he spent his time away from work as an engineering consultant, volunteering in the community. He was active in his church, taught religious education, and was a member of the Catholic fraternal organization Knights of Columbus.

• 6:22Mike Boudet?

  He was even a big brother of America mentoring youth.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  It's a terrible way for anybody to go, you know, you're in your own home and, you know, to be cut down like that by yourself alone.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  I just hope it doesn't happen again around here. That was horrible to see.

• 6:38Mike Boudet?

  It all started with a call from a woman named Carol. She spoke with Mike multiple times a day, every day. That afternoon at about 1:00 PM, she was talking to Mike when his demeanor suddenly changed. He ended the call saying he would call her back. She was left on the other end of the phone, wondering what was going on. When she never heard back from him and was only getting to his voicemail, she called police. The police conducted a welfare check at his residence, 85 Myrtle Avenue. There was no response when they knocked on the door. They walked around the house, looking through the windows for any sign of Mike. Finally, they managed to lift the garage door a few inches. That's when they noticed

• 7:23Mike Boudet?

  his car was gone. They ran the plates through the system and they found out that the license plate was scanned by an automated plate reader in Camden, New Jersey. Carol told police that Mike would only ever visit his brother, but that he would take a train. As far as she knew, he didn't have any trips planned. The police decided to go into the home. They lifted the garage door just enough for an officer to crawl underneath. Once in the garage, he immediately noticed the interior door had signs of forced entry. On the other side of the door was the laundry room, and on the floor was Mike in a pool of blood.

• 8:06Mike Boudet?

  Mike put up a fight, though. The struggle that ended in his death had started in the kitchen, went through the living room, and ended up in the laundry room. When police told Carol about Mike's death, her first question was whether Shawn Lanin had murdered him.

• 8:24Speaker 06

  Breaking news, the search for a person of interest in a South Jersey murder.

• 8:29Speaker 07

  We have a scary situation here in Gloucester County. Well, it could be, this guy could be anywhere at this point. Police are looking for.

• 8:35Speaker 06

  Shawn Lanin is wanted in connection with yesterday's homicide in East Greenwich Township.

• 8:41Speaker 07

  Investigators say he's considered absolutely armed and dangerous.

• 8:45Speaker 08

  Yeah, this is a national manhunt right now. Uh, there's a stolen car from South Jersey that he may be using, a blue Honda CRV with Jersey plates. Also, they think he was spotted at the Water Run Transportation Center, which will likely send off alarm bells all over the Philly area because that is the bus station right next to the Ben Franklin Bridge. You can take a bus into Philly in five minutes. You can take the River Line up and down the river, or you can take the Pat Goy Speed Line to Locust Street if you wanted.

• 9:10Mike Boudet?

  The manhunt for Shawn Lanin was nationwide, but he was from New Jersey. He grew up there. He went to high school and ran track. Nobody thought his name would be in the news for anything like this, though. But the reason Carol suspected Shawn was that Mike had been in Shawn's life since he was a child. Shawn didn't have a father growing up, so his mother Lynn enrolled him in the Big Brother program. Mike became his big brother and father figure.

• 9:41Speaker 09

  His father was a career criminal. I married him in 1970. I was a couple of years in. I knew I didn't wish to be married to him anymore.

• 9:49Mike Boudet?

  She explained life was so hard when Shawn was young, and over time she came to rely on Mike, too.

• 9:56Speaker 09

  Because I was a single parent, da-da-da-da-da. Um, and I worked. So I counted on Mike to kind of pick up the slack. We were poor. We were just poor. The single women are just poor. It's just part of the, and so it was what it is. So I know Mike was good to him in terms of, uh, you know, possessions, like equipment.

• 10:20Speaker 10

  I couldn't, and it was hard. And, and I was grateful for Mike, that the kids could have clothes that, you know, you know, otherwise we shopped in goodwill.

• 10:32Mike Boudet?

  Mike became a lifelong fixture in Sean's life, following him into adulthood and even marriage. His in-laws even knew the man everyone called Uncle Mike.

• 10:43Speaker 10

  We knew Uncle Mike. Uncle Mike was at plenty of birthday parties and dinners, dinners at the house and...

• 10:51Speaker 11

  He was the big brother that stayed in his life. He was his father. He was. Family friend. It was like a father figure to him. Uh, I couldn't remember his name. My sister's like, oh, Uncle Mike, Uncle Mike.

• 11:04Mike Boudet?

  Everyone who knew Uncle Mike knew him as an upstanding citizen and a great man who devoted himself to others rather than selfish pursuits. But years after his big brother mentorship, when Sean grew up, he started sharing his childhood trauma with his wife.

• 11:23Speaker 10

  I knew Jen had said that he was molested when he was a kid. They never said Uncle Mike. He never showed any dislike of Uncle Mike. Uncle Mike was always wonderful.

• 11:38Speaker 11

  My sister told me at one point, I didn't know it was him, that Sean had been molested as a kid, had a rough childhood. But I did not know it was him. I didn't connect the dots there. But everything seemed normal when we met, I met Mike. I didn't see, you know, I knew they were close friends. It was a father figure. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary there.

• 11:58Mike Boudet?

  While everyone seemed to know about Sean's childhood trauma, no one put two and two together. It was too hard to imagine that Mike, the man who gave so much to the Lannon family and asked for nothing in return, could be the one who had molested Sean. But there was one person Sean shared more with. The longtime nanny to his kids remembers Sean mentioning an old score that needed settling.

• 12:28Speaker 12

  I've known for years about Mike. He would never leave his kids alone with Mike, so he had mentioned sexual assault that occurred when he was a young boy right before his teens up until army and he went off to the army. Um, he had said that was an old score that he needs to settle with Mike.

• 12:50Mike Boudet?

  The anger he must have felt, the shame that must have lingered with him for years. Two days after the murder on March 10th, the manhunt was over. He was arrested and questioned about his reasons for killing a retired old man.

• 13:08Speaker 13

  The man that molested me as a child, my big brother? Big brothers, big sisters, whatever. He got molested too?

• 13:15Mike Boudet?

  At forty-seven years old, something snapped in Sean Lannon. He had three young kids. People who knew him say they were his whole world, but somewhere along the line, something in Sean's world shifted. He could no longer live with what he claimed Mike Debkowski did to him as a child. He had to take control back.

• 13:39Speaker 13

  I wanted the pictures from Mr. Michael. I wanted the pictures back. He didn't want to give me the pictures. It's like, I took a beating.

• 13:46Mike Boudet?

  On March 8th, when Mike saw Sean Lannon walking up to his driveway, he ended the call with Carol because he knew it couldn't be good. Mike had been lending Sean money for years, but he never seemed to get back on his feet. This time Sean didn't want money. He wanted the sexually explicit photos he claimed Mike took of him as a kid. Sean said Mike denied having those photos. So, he punched him in the face a few times.

• 14:17Speaker 13

  Could've just gave me the fucking pictures. I'm probably gonna fight about it.

• 14:21Mike Boudet?

  Sean said after a few stiff punches, Mike gave him the pictures. But Sean wasn't done. He escalated the situation and the two started to scuffle. At sixty-six years old, Mike wasn't as strong as he used to be and quickly tried to retreat through the living room. But Sean pursued. The laundry room connects the rest of the house to the garage. Mike was trying to escape, but Sean found a hammer. He struck Mike on the head and he collapsed to the floor. With his mission complete, Shawn locked the house and left, planning to steal Mike's car. But when he got outside, he realized he didn't have the keys.

• 15:06Mike Boudet?

  He had to force his way back into the home to get the keys off of Mike's dead body. Problem was, Mike wasn't dead. He lay on the floor, barely breathing. Shawn grabbed a nearby sweatshirt and placed it over his head so he wouldn't get covered in blood, and swung the hammer a few more times.

• 15:28Speaker 13

  He expired the moment that I realized I had time to finish it. It took his life, so I'm proud of it. I'm proud of him. It's horrible, too. No one gave a fuck about me when I was being a recruit two and a half years. It doesn't justify it. I feel bad.

• 15:49Mike Boudet?

  Shawn took Mike's life. He called this man "uncle" since childhood. He expressed remorse, but there was no emotion behind the words. What happened to Shawn? That after all of these years, he suddenly let all this harbored aggression out?

• 16:10Speaker 09

  He was, he was a nice young man. He ran track. He ran cross-country. He was, he was fun-loving. I didn't know that he had potential sexual molestation in front of his big brother. I didn't know that.

• 16:26Mike Boudet?

  After his arrest, Shawn's mother Lynn said she never knew. She claimed naivety for not seeing it. But there was a lot about Shawn she didn't know, didn't see, until it was too late. Two days earlier, on March 8th, before he was arrested, it wasn't just a national manhunt, it was a national concern.

• 16:50Speaker 06

  Police standing guard tonight at the scene of yesterday's homicide on East Greenwood Township, Gloucester County. And at this hour, the search continues for Shawn Lanin, not only for this crime, but also in connection with a multiple killing. Turns out that Lanin is also a person of interest in a quadruple murder in New Mexico.

• 17:40Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 18:23Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 18:54Speaker 14

  Hi, I'm Jen Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 19:09Speaker 15

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 19:20Speaker 14

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 19:24Speaker 16

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 19:31Speaker 14

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 19:51Speaker 17

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 20:32Mike Boudet?

  By the time the sun set on March 8th, Michael Debkowski was dead, and the search for Shawn Lannan had crossed state lines. News reports painted a picture of a violent attack, a desperate escape, and a suspect now tied to four more murders in New Mexico. But the headlines didn't explain how Shawn got there.

• 20:54Speaker 09

  And when he graduated high school, he went into the Army for five years. He went to Kosovo, which if you know the history of Kosovo, it was a violent, mass grave, most of which ethnic cleansing, I mean, it was just like a nightmare. But he didn't send back the same young man he went over with. I'm sure a lot of soldiers are the same, and you may see atrocities, but just still. And I said, Shawn, you need some PTSD help. You need some help with this. This is too much.

• 21:22Mike Boudet?

  Shawn was never the same after his tour in Kosovo. Lingering mental scars added to his already damaged mental health. It seemed his whole perspective on life had shifted.

• 21:35Speaker 09

  He divorced his first wife when he came home. He told me there could be no God because of what he saw.

• 21:43Mike Boudet?

  What he saw in combat took a toll on Shawn. But it wasn't long before the old Shawn started to shine through.

• 21:51Speaker 09

  He was in McDonald's one day, and he met a girl named Liz. They were a whole other seven years together.

• 21:57Mike Boudet?

  For a short time, Shawn seemed content.

• 22:01Mike Boudet?

  But it wouldn't last. It was while he was with Liz that he met Jennifer Whitman.

• 22:07Speaker 11

  I mean, they met probably about nine years ago. She had been married at that point and with from her first husband. She was an in-home nurse. That's how they met. They were all like, she was in there working and that's how they met.

• 22:20Mike Boudet?

  It wasn't long after Jen started working as an in-home nurse for Sean and Liz that a relationship developed.

• 22:27Speaker 11

  And they were having a secret, you know, a secret affair at that point, uh, which eventually came out.

• 22:32Speaker 09

  She was married to somebody else. They had an affair. Um, and then it just, they were just like, you know, star-crossed lovers and everything was like wonderful and everything like that.

• 22:45Speaker 11

  At that point, she, she left her first husband. They got together.

• 22:49Mike Boudet?

  Both Sean and Jen were already married, but that didn't seem to matter. Their affair turned into a full-fledged relationship and then they got married.

• 23:00Speaker 11

  She went off for Sean, uh, did what they did. They got married in March of 2013. None of us were there. We found out through Facebook.

• 23:07Mike Boudet?

  Their relationship blossomed and it wasn't long before they welcomed their first child into the world, a little girl. About a year later, they had a second little girl. Not long after that, Jen was pregnant again, this time with a boy. From the outside, everything was perfect.

• 23:26Speaker 09

  He had a decent job. You know, he was good at his job. He enjoyed his job. He enjoyed the, you know, being able to provide. He liked that.

• 23:35Speaker 10

  Sean was a hard worker. He was an excellent dad.

• 23:39Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 10

  He loved Jen and he did anything for Jen.

• 23:42Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 11

  I mean, through the years, they seemed to be okay.

• 23:47Mike Boudet?

  But behind the scenes, the couple was struggling.

• 23:50Speaker 09

  On some level, she wanted that picture of, uh, because he grew up in church and, you know, everybody wants to be married and, you know, have that happy little house with the white big fans and kids running around. She wanted to put on a facade that it, that she was all together and.

• 24:10Speaker 09

  And she could maintain that for a while until the need for, you know, drugs took over.

• 24:17Mike Boudet?

  Jen started to slip into drug addiction.

• 24:20Speaker 11

  Jen was having some troubles with prescription drugs. She hurt her back before she left her first husband. And she was on some pain pillows for her back.

• 24:28Mike Boudet?

  It started slowly at first, but then escalated quickly. She lost her nursing license because of her addiction and sank deeper into it. Soon, there were issues that couldn't be missed, even through the facade of the perfect life.

• 24:44Speaker 09

  And the first time DIFS was called in New Jersey was because she was violent. She was on the drugs, she was violent. And she threw like bar chairs at him and the babysitter got mad, babysitter called him.

• 24:59Mike Boudet?

  DIFS, as it's referred to, or D Y F S, stands for the Division of Youth and Family Services in New Jersey.

• 25:08Speaker 09

  Then we had to have protection plans in place. So it was me and Sean on the protection plan. And she couldn't be left alone with the kids unsupervised.

• 25:20Mike Boudet?

  Jen's addiction only got worse.

• 25:23Speaker 09

  In 2016, she had a heroin overdose. DIFS took the kids in 2017. I got the call that night. Sean says, "Come home, Mom. They're taking the kids." I go, "Huh?" And there was DIFS in my house. And so we had the kids for the next 49 days while she was supposed to be getting herself together, Sean was getting therapy.

• 25:50Mike Boudet?

  And that was their life. A cycle of Jen strung out on opiates, going to rehab, getting out, and eventually relapsing again. All the while, they were trying to convince D Y F S that the kids weren't in danger. Shawn worked at an oil refinery, putting in a lot of hours. Sometimes he would be gone for weeks at a time, leaving the kids with Jen. This led to a lot of calls to D Y F S. Needless to say, they weren't convinced. But in late 2017, Shawn got an opportunity within his company. He was offered another job in New Mexico.

• 26:30Speaker 11

  They were getting ready to move into Mexico about three, four years ago, I think it was.

• 26:34Mike Boudet?

  I'm sure they both looked at it as a fresh start in a new state. Shawn moved to New Mexico with the kids and Jen returned to rehab.

• 26:42Speaker 09

  You know, she got out of rehab, she came back. He divorces her, he takes her to, you know, D F S and gets her parental rights taken away. She didn't really deserve any parental rights.

• 26:56Speaker 10

  They were divorced just by paper.

• 26:57Speaker 11

  They were together.

• 26:58Speaker 10

  They were still together as a husband and wife. They never left each other, only the time that Jen was in rehab for one, three or four months.

• 27:08Speaker 11

  So I knew about it, I didn't know why. Right, I think from what I understood, it was that they were going to lose custody of the kids if they stayed married. So they got a divorce so Shawn could hold full custody of the kids and the kids would be safe. So they went to lose it because Jen was going through her drug problem.

• 27:32Mike Boudet?

  Of course, Jen was still there. She lived in the house with Shawn and the kids. She had no rights on paper, but in reality, when Shawn wasn't home, she had full responsibility for their three small children. Taking care of her kids was difficult for Jen. She often chose her addiction over her children. Then Shawn got sick.

• 27:54Speaker 12

  I wasn't really living nanny these past couple of years, but when Shawn got diagnosed with cancer, I was there a lot. I want to say it's his lungs, I think it's mesothelioma, I'm not sure. I know he's been saying, he was seeing a doctor, I used to take him to treatments every day up until October, when he was real bad, when he first started getting female, he used to have to be like, just walked to the bathroom and everything, like he could barely stand up. So I would stay there a lot of times, I would stay there.

• 28:24Mike Boudet?

  Shawn was so sick that he was physically wrecked. Jen wasn't any help. So they had to hire a nanny to help take care of the kids. Then Sean lost his job because of all the time off. The little money they had started to dwindle fast. And the problems with Jen got worse.

• 28:46Speaker 11

  Jen had run off with somebody after he had an argument that she hit him with a frying pan and he was bruised up and marked up from that and then she ran off with some guy that went to Arizona.

• 29:00Speaker 10

  That they had a big fight and Jen left with a guy.

• 29:06Mike Boudet?

  According to Sean, Jen abandoned her family at their lowest point.

• 29:10Speaker 10

  It's unlike my daughter to go two weeks without calling us. Then three weeks. It's unlike my daughter not calling us or texting us three weeks.

• 29:20Speaker 11

  January, February moved forward. Talked to my parents about filing a missing person report because Sean wasn't really communicating to my parents as much. He gave us little information and all of a sudden, once we started pushing the police, it seemed like that's where he started talking. Oh, you know, I saw her two weeks ago or she only comes around for money. You know, I'll see her soon. And he even said that he saw her in town. And I just, I just kept saying, this guy, uh, something doesn't seem right.

• 29:49Mike Boudet?

  On March 5th, 2021, three days before the murder of Mike Dubkowski and the national manhunt, in the concrete shadows of an Albuquerque airport parking garage, a worn down pickup truck waited for someone to find what was inside.

• 30:06Speaker 18

  Albuquerque International Soundport, this is James. James, this is Aerospace Defense Officer Martinez with SCIS. I'm on patrol in the garage. I have a vehicle here on the fourth floor and within five feet of the vehicle, you could smell some sort of rotten, pungent odor.

• 30:32Mike Boudet?

  On the fourth floor of the airport parking garage was a maroon Ford Ranger backed into a spot far from all the other cars. While the truck was suspicious with all the storage bins loaded inside and out, it was the wafts of rot that got the security guard's attention.

• 30:52Speaker 18

  Uh, the vehicle is filled with multiple tubs.

• 30:57Speaker 19

  Storage containers, plastic storage containers throughout the bed of the vehicle as well as the cab?

• 31:04Speaker 18

  Alright, well just keep an eye on it and if anything changes, let us know.

• 31:10Speaker 19

  If anything, okay, are you going to uh?

• 31:13Speaker 18

  No, I'm not sending, no, I'm not sending an officer because the vehicle stinks.

• 31:17Speaker 19

  Okay. Alright, well, thank you very much.

• 31:21Mike Boudet?

  The truck didn't have any signs of a break-in and no one was inside. It was just very smelly. But the guard couldn't let it go. He finished checking the rest of the garage and then took his suspicion to his boss. His boss couldn't let it go either.

• 31:39Speaker 18

  Come through, this is Josh.

• 31:41Speaker 19

  Hey Josh, this is Mark, uh, 91 down at Lanside, how are you?

• 31:44Speaker 18

  Good, how you doing?

• 31:45Speaker 19

  Good, good. Hey, I went up to level four, it just looks weird, man. It is, it is packed full of stuff, like tarp down in the back and every seat in the cab is fully loaded, including the pass, uh, the driver's seat with like rubber made totes and stuff. And there is an odor there and he said he talked to you guys and I, I understand that the truck is registered and, and you know, there's really not a whole lot to go on, but I mean, it might not be a bad idea, maybe have an officer look at it, dude, it just looks weird, dude.

• 32:17Mike Boudet?

  Eventually, patrol officers were dispatched to the fourth level of the Sunport parking garage. The bed of the little pickup truck was filled with storage totes, covered with a deflated air mattress. A broken headboard from a twin bed weighted all down. The cab of the truck was filled with miscellaneous items. Every surface, even the driver's seat, was packed with stuff. Boxes of loose clothing were scattered in the backseat. A Thomas the Tank engine themed toy box was rammed behind the driver's seat. The passenger seat was piled with stuff and covered by a tarp. It was more than just a little strange that

• 32:58Mike Boudet?

  someone would park a truck loaded with personal items at the airport and leave it there. It's not like people usually need to catch a flight in the middle of moving. And I'm pretty sure that people that live out of their car aren't world travelers.

• 33:13Speaker 11

  Yeah, like behind the seat right there, there's blood on her shirt. Like those loppers right there. I can't tell if there's rust on it or, I don't know. Like around the blade part, it kind of looks red, reddish. Could be rust, but based off what we're looking at, it means...

• 33:30Mike Boudet?

  The patrol officers immediately understood what the security guards were talking about. This truck reeked of decay. They called a forensic investigator to determine if they were justified in their concerns.

• 33:45Speaker 10

  Hello there, ladies.

• 33:45Speaker 12

  Hi there.

• 33:47Speaker 10

  We have a suspicious situation here. There's a bunch of, a big couple were caught in the back. It smells awful bad.

• 33:55Speaker 12

  I was like...

• 33:55Speaker 10

  No, we kind of pulled one over and it looks like there might be maybe body parts, I don't know.

• 34:03Speaker 10

  So...

• 34:05Speaker 12

  I don't know, people, then I'm out of here, just kidding.

• 34:09Mike Boudet?

  It was such an outlandish idea that the officer giggled. "Body parts, you say? Don't be silly."

• 34:18Speaker 12

  Oh, look, it looks like there's like... Oh, there's, yeah, I said, oh shit, okay.

• 34:25Mike Boudet?

  When officers peeled back one of the tote's lids, they were smacked in the face with the thick stench of decomposition. Patrol officers led the forensic investigator around the truck, pointing out what looked like blood, hair, and human skin. The police weren't sure what was going on with that little red truck, but they were gonna find out. The truck was registered to 60-year-old Randall Apostolon, an Albuquerque local. He had no criminal record. How his truck ended up at the airport? was a mystery. The major crime scene team and the office of the medical investigator methodically documented the contents of each tote.

• 35:09Mike Boudet?

  The first tote contained a bloody deflated swimming pool, but underneath was a male torso. The torso was missing a head, a left arm, and the legs below the knees. It was covered in tattoos and clothed from the waist down. Whoever dismembered his body was in such a hurry that they cut through the clothes. In the second tote, they found another torso, covered by a red and white blanket. It was missing the head, both legs, and a right hand. The blade from a reciprocating saw was lodged into the rib cage. It had a tattoo on the right shoulder and was clothed from the waist up.

• 35:53Mike Boudet?

  In the third tote, they found a single human thigh. In the fourth tote, they found a fully clothed and fully intact body of a female under a blanket. Her hair was dyed blonde with streaks of red. She was curled in a fetal position and crammed into a 50-gallon bin. Each tote added a piece to the story. They found human remains, but also the tools used to dismember them. They found black gloves and multiple knives covered in blood. In the "Thomas the Tank Engine" themed toy box, they found a head, two legs, and strands of hair clinging to a bloody hacksaw.

• 36:37Mike Boudet?

  I don't think I have to stress how unsettling it is to find this gruesome scene inside a children's toy chest. It's downright nightmare-inducing. It was already one of the most disturbing crime scenes in Albuquerque's history. And then, they pulled back the tarp in the front seat. Underneath was the complete body of a man.

• 37:03Mike Boudet?

  He was curled in a fetal position with his knees on the floorboard. His arms were pinned under his body and his head was forced into the seat back. There was evidence of severe trauma to the head and face. When they pulled the crumpled body out of the truck, they understood why. Underneath the body was a blood-covered, shorthanded sledgehammer. It was clear that the body in the passenger seat was the owner of the truck, Randall. From what officers could tell, he looked like his license photo. Detectives now had to find out why Randall was dead in his own truck, with the dismembered bodies of three others.

• 37:45Mike Boudet?

  They also needed to identify the man caught on airport surveillance cameras parking the truck. But they started their investigation with the address associated with Randall's license.

• 37:58Speaker 04

  What can I help you gentlemen with? He's my brother.

• 38:01Speaker 20

  Right.

• 38:01Speaker 04

  And you're looking for him?

• 38:03Speaker 20

  Yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  I really don't know where he is, to be honest with you.

• 38:07Speaker 20

  Okay.

• 38:07Speaker 04

  All he does is receive his mail here.

• 38:10Speaker 20

  Oh, okay.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  Okay. So. Where do you think he's living? I truly think he's living out of his vehicle. I truly believe. Tell me why you think that? Because, uh... He's destitute. He's broke. Okay. He...

• 38:27Speaker 04

  He's scraping for gas to put it in the truck.

• 38:30Mike Boudet?

  Randall's brother Mark didn't seem surprised when police showed up asking about him. Randall was homeless, living out of his truck. He did random tree trimming to make money. But Mark was adamant that Randall couldn't be responsible for anything that required a police investigation.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  What I will do, gentlemen, is I will give...

• 38:50Speaker 04

  Can I get your name too? That's the worst. And write it down? Because that way... And if you want to put your number too, I'll tell you to call these guys. You're a person of interest in a murder. Oh, no. I'm kidding about that.

• 39:03Mike Boudet?

  You know, being a police officer is hard. Can you imagine having a conversation with someone all the while knowing that their brother is dead? But you can't tell them because they haven't been positively identified yet. Just imagine how painful that would be.

• 39:22Speaker 04

  But I'll just tell him you're a person of interest.

• 39:24Speaker 20

  Yes.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  And to talk to him. So I don't know what's going on.

• 39:28Speaker 20

  And even if you don't hear from him, but hear from somebody else that might know where he is, please call us.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:34Mike Boudet?

  The police still couldn't divulge that information, not until they knew the connection to the other murders. Thankfully, they didn't have to wait long. The sheriff's office from Cibola County, New Mexico, called to explain that the descriptions of the dismembered body parts matched the descriptions of three missing persons in their jurisdiction.

• 39:55Speaker 21

  Police have identified four bodies that were found in a vehicle at the Sunport on Friday. Three of the victims, 21-year-old Matthew Miller, 40-year-old Justin Mata, and 39-year-old Jennifer Lannon, had been reported missing out of Grants back in January. Officials are investigating how the fourth victim, 61-year-old Randall Apostolon, is connected to the other.

• 40:18Mike Boudet?

  The heavily tattooed torso was identified as 40-year-old Justin Mata, last seen by his girlfriend on January 17th. The torso with a single shoulder tattoo was identified as 21-year-old Matthew Miller, last seen by his grandmother on January 24th. The intact female body was identified as none other than 39-year-old Jennifer Lannon, Sean's ex-wife. The Cibola Sheriff's Office also told Albuquerque detectives that all three were tied to drugs and that their main suspect, Sean Lannon, had already likely fled to New Jersey.

• 40:58Speaker 22

  We're just in that the multi-state manhunt is now over for a man wanted a connection with five murders. Minutes ago, we learned that federal marshals captured Sean Lannon in St. Louis, Missouri.

• 41:09Mike Boudet?

  Sean fled New Mexico with his kids on March 4th. The bodies in the truck weren't found until the following day, March 5th. By March 7th, the local police in New Jersey were already taking the kids from Sean's family. Sean was on the run in Virginia. He spoke with police that night. They told him they wanted to talk to him and that they had already found the body of his wife. He agreed to return home, but never did. Instead, he made a beeline for Mike's house. He arrived on March 8th. By the time Sean was arrested on March 10th, he had already made it all the way to St. Louis in Mike's car. He was caught sleeping inside.

• 41:54Mike Boudet?

  He had some questions to answer.

• 41:56Speaker 13

  One day I took a walk at Walmart, first in Dela Stroller, empty, to go get groceries. A half hour into the walk, I realized I had my food cart. Turned around, came back, went in the front door, went down the hallway to get my food cart in my dresser. I noticed it was quiet. I mean, the kids. Open the door, Jen and Justin were in there fucking. I knew they were divorced whenever. I was like, idiots, fuck the kids, grab my card.

• 42:31Mike Boudet?

  Seeing Jen fucking another man didn't really faze Sean. He was just worried about the kids. He didn't see them or hear them.

• 42:39Speaker 13

  So called the kids, nothing. Opened the door, cross my mind, it's piled blankets, behind the blankets are the kids.

• 42:49Mike Boudet?

  Sean runs to his kids and picks up one of his daughters.

• 42:51Speaker 13

  Doesn't seem like they're breathing, so I'm flipping out. Put her against her, I could feel her shallow breaths.

• 42:57Mike Boudet?

  His daughter is non-responsive, barely breathing. He looks at the other two kids. Neither one seem to have a pulse.

• 43:04Speaker 13

  I'm flipping out, like, what the fuck did you do? Justin's putting on his clothes, comes in like, done this a hundred times, and you're like, they're fine, they're fine. I'm like, they're fine, not breathing. Fuck did you do? So then they drugged them, something in their medicine?

• 43:19Mike Boudet?

  Justin assured Sean that he and Jen had done this a hundred times. They drugged the kids so they would go to sleep so they could fuck. Sean was livid.

• 43:29Speaker 13

  Justin ran out the room, out the house immediately.

• 43:33Mike Boudet?

  Jen picked up their son, the youngest. He showed no signs of pulse or breathing. Their baby was dead.

• 43:41Speaker 13

  She kissed the kids on the forehead, all three of them. This is I'll see you in a minute. She goes to do all of her shit.

• 43:50Mike Boudet?

  Jen, believing she was responsible for the death of her kids, didn't call for help. She went to the bedroom and prepared her heroin. Sean, with his medic training from the military, didn't give up so easily.

• 44:04Speaker 13

  They said they also blew heroin smoke in their faces, so they don't know if Narcan would work. I looked around the garage and I found one.

• 44:13Mike Boudet?

  In case you don't know, Narcan is a brand name for a drug called naloxone. It reverses the effects of opioids. A person overdosing on opiates and near death can be brought back in seconds with this drug. But Sean only found a single dose. So in a matter of moments, he grabbed some straws and some duct tape and rigged a dual applicator. He placed it under the noses of the two kids without a heartbeat. Normally, people who overdosed snap awake. But with Sean's kids, nothing happened. He was convinced they were beyond saving. He placed the barely breathing daughter on the couch so the nanny would see her when she arrived.

• 44:58Mike Boudet?

  With the other two kids dead, Sean felt like a failure. He no longer had a reason to live.

• 45:07Speaker 13

  So I'm not seeing her. I'm in the bedroom. Jen was already out with the heroin. It was enough to take her life. So I said, really, she was breathing. She wasn't going to OD.

• 45:21Mike Boudet?

  Jen had shot up the rest of her heroin in an attempt to end her life, but it wasn't enough. She was breathing and she wasn't going to die. Sean psyched himself up for what he was about to do. He blamed her over and over for their children's deaths. And then...

• 45:40Speaker 13

  I thought pistol behind her head. And I pulled the trigger. It was fucking awful. Couple seconds later, I was positioned on the bed too. I put the pistol in my mouth.

• 45:53Speaker 13

  My hand held up.

• 45:55Speaker 13

  It just slipped past my teeth. I um...

• 45:58Speaker 13

  I just then cried out. I was like...

• 46:03Speaker 13

  What the fuck happened to you now?

• 46:05Mike Boudet?

  Right before he pulled the trigger and blew his own brains out, his son woke up and cried out. The kids weren't dead. Shawn immediately abandoned his suicide attempt. Now, the only problem was that he had already shot his wife.

• 46:22Speaker 13

  I knew I was living on borrowed time at that point, so I needed to get my kids to my safe back home.

• 46:30Mike Boudet?

  Shawn knew he would eventually get caught, but he wanted to get his kids to his family so they wouldn't be taken away. He starts preparing for their trip, but can't shake his anger for Justin. He blames him for the whole situation. He decides to kill him. He used Jen's phone to text him that everything was fine and to come over.

• 46:52Speaker 13

  All the while, still baiting Justin mother. He's responsible for the drug and doing it to my kids.

• 47:00Speaker 13

  Took like a week. I came to the house, in the laundry room, connected to the garage.

• 47:07Speaker 13

  That's where I killed him. Just before I killed him. He offered up a trade. His phone had pictures of Shawn Michael standing there naked in my living room.

• 47:21Speaker 13

  I don't know what the fuck his name was, William or Matthew. Miller, whatever the fuck his name is. With his fucking dick on my son's shoulders.

• 47:31Mike Boudet?

  In an attempt to save his life, Justin offered pictures to Shawn. The pictures were of his naked son. On one side of his son was Matthew Miller. On the other was a man named Daniel Lemos. Both had their exposed penises resting on the little boy's shoulders. Shawn's childhood trauma must have flooded back at that moment. He was tempted to let Justin go until he confessed he was the one who took the picture. Flashbacks of Uncle Mike probably flooded his brain along with all the unresolved feelings of anger and shame. Then he realized why Justin had the pictures.

• 48:17Mike Boudet?

  He was selling them.

• 48:19Speaker 13

  He wanted, he wanted to know if he could do a shot of her before, so I was like...

• 48:24Speaker 13

  So I said, "Well, if you find any in the vents." So he was looking down at the vents. He didn't see it coming. I met Sean in the back of the head. It disgusted me.

• 48:36Speaker 13

  It was gross.

• 48:37Mike Boudet?

  Sean now had two murders to clean up, but he wasn't done yet. Sean wanted to kill the two men in the picture abusing his son. He tried to lure them to the house one at a time. Eventually, Matthew Miller showed up alone.

• 48:54Speaker 13

  I asked him about the thing with my son. He said that it wasn't his idea and I was like, he had an erection in the picture like, you have forced someone to have an erection in your child. I shot him in the garage. Put up the bag with it, with the chair. It's disgusting.

• 49:08Mike Boudet?

  This time Sean planned ahead and lined the garage floor with tarps and whatever you could find so there wouldn't be much to clean up. But Matthew's body missed.

• 49:18Speaker 13

  The fat kid felt kinda weird. It's like, my hand was I guess in part of the brain and picked up by his head. His hair, it kinda wigged on the back once, so I had to contain it. You know, it was disgusting.

• 49:31Mike Boudet?

  Sean was running out of time. Ever since he lost his job, he'd been living off of unemployment. But with Jen's, let's say, spending habits, they were getting kicked out of the house. The water and the electricity had already been shut off. He didn't have time to get to his next target.

• 49:50Speaker 13

  And I had been trying to get Daniel Lemos to the house for fucking weeks. He just wasn't that stupid.

• 49:57Mike Boudet?

  His original idea when he started dismembering Justin and Matthew was that maybe he could get away with it. Maybe he could cut them up small enough that he could get rid of the pieces discreetly. But after he started, he found out how hard it was. And also, how utterly disgusting. He tried using a reciprocating saw to cut through Matthew's torso, but rather than cut through the bone, it got stuck and started violently shaking the corpse instead. Ew, that's terrifying. So he resorted to knives and hand saws and settled for just making them small enough to fit in storage totes.

• 50:40Mike Boudet?

  He spent the better part of the month cleaning the home. He ripped up the carpet and scrubbed the garage floor. He used so much bleach that he got blisters. Then came the time when he needed to dispose of the bodies.

• 50:57Mike Boudet?

  He had a literal truckload of storage bins. That's when he met Randall Apostalon.

• 51:05Speaker 13

  Yeah, and then I meet up with Randy, says he can move it.

• 51:08Mike Boudet?

  Shawn didn't have a car, so he needed help moving the totes. He asked around the street until he heard about Randall, or Randy. Randy was living out of his truck and was always looking to make a quick buck. Randy told Shawn he could not only move his stuff, but also store it. But it would cost a hundred and fifty bucks. He took him to one storage unit, but it was full, so after driving around for a while, Randy changed his mind. He told Shawn it was gonna cost him another hundred and fifty bucks.

• 51:43Speaker 13

  And he just leases me for the one fifty, tries me back, like, "Get your shit out." And I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "Yeah, you're lucky I don't say nothing about what's in the boxes." It's at that point.

• 51:56Speaker 13

  We get in a fight.

• 51:57Mike Boudet?

  Of course Randy knew what was in the boxes. It had been weeks at this point. Even in the chilly temperatures of Albuquerque in February, the smell was starting to point to signs of something, something sinister.

• 52:14Speaker 13

  I think death has a smell that you're not gonna forget anytime soon.

• 52:17Mike Boudet?

  Randy knew. As Shawn slowly realized Randy knew, he was left with only one option. He had to kill him. If he ratted him out, he'd never get his kids to safety. He had to, for his kids.

• 52:35Speaker 13

  He was in the driver's seat. I hit him two or three times with my hands. Flipped the key to dissolved position. At some point, my hand got sore, hit him with a hammer.

• 52:46Speaker 13

  Blood was splattered. It was pretty fucking disgusting. He'd pottle underneath the truck coming outside door. How horrible was it? Horrible. Pretty horrible. Taking a pleasure in that was disgusting. I wanted my kids to be safe. I probably failed that last year and a half.

• 53:06Mike Boudet?

  He claimed he took no joy in what he did, and that he did it all for the safety of his kids. But Sean's story didn't end with Jen or with Mike. In custody, he would make a claim so staggering, so horrifying, that investigators couldn't even believe it at first. He said there were more, many more.

• 53:47Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks, built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power on many models,

• 54:31Mike Boudet?

  you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. ShopToyota.com for deals and details or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota. Let's go places.

• 55:01Speaker 14

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 55:16Speaker 15

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 55:27Speaker 14

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 55:32Speaker 16

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 55:38Speaker 14

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 55:58Speaker 17

  ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, Study Mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 56:42Mike Boudet?

  Sean's childhood was marked by sexual abuse. His adult life and marriage to Jen unraveled under the weight of addiction and violence. He killed four people in New Mexico, including Jen, and tried to hide their bodies in a truck at the airport. Days later, he showed up at Uncle Mike's house. Mike was a mentor, a father figure, but he had abused Sean as a child. That night ended with another brutal murder.

• 57:13Mike Boudet?

  When caught, he confessed. But when police thought he was done, he had more to say.

• 57:19Speaker 13

  The one time I stayed in the back with the kids, one came in, started beating the fuck out of Jen. Okay, some dude was like, "She's on the ground." Just punching her in the face. I don't think he realized I was there.

• 57:33Mike Boudet?

  Shawn saw the violence in his home, against his wife, near his children, and he lost it. He claimed this was the first time he took a life.

• 57:45Speaker 13

  Yeah, it was always, always something relative to Jen. Bodies near my kids.

• 57:52Mike Boudet?

  He claimed there were 11 others he killed, connected to Jen through drugs. When they came looking for the money she owed and got violent, Shawn would have to step in to protect his kids.

• 58:06Speaker 13

  The bodies are in the Malpays. Malpays? M A L D. The lava tubes, the lava.

• 58:12Mike Boudet?

  Shawn claimed to have dumped all 11 others in the Malpays. Apparently, that part of New Mexico has old lava tubes traveling deep underground. If he threw any bodies in there, they'd never be found. He admitted that if he hadn't been caught in St. Louis, he would have returned to New Mexico to hunt down Daniel Lemus and kill him. Shawn didn't blame Jen for everything. He blamed himself a lot, too. But the kids deserved better, and that was his driving motivation. Jen's drug associations put the kids in danger, but so did her neglect.

• 58:56Speaker 12

  But yeah, she was always heavily involved with drugs. When I first met her, it was pills. Um, and then she lost her nursing license because of it. And it just got, she just got deeper and deeper and deeper with it.

• 59:09Speaker 09

  I know that he talked all the time about her having boyfriends. Then at some point he felt she was prostituting herself for drugs. She would be like a drug mule. Like if she came to New Jersey, they, I didn't even know they did stuff. They hide things in their bodies. I didn't even know about that.

• 59:28Speaker 12

  Jennifer, I mean, I've seen her get high in front of the kids, leave her kids for hours. She never used to check their diapers, like they'd sit for days. They wouldn't eat, nothing.

• 59:39Mike Boudet?

  Jen's addiction affected their kids before they were even born. Their second daughter was born with a heart defect. What a mom. And yes, I am victim blaming Susan. Victim blaming the drug addict horrible mother. That's probably better off in the ground. Go tell your friends.

• 1:00:00Speaker 12

  Becca and Savannah both had heart problems. Becca's way worse off than Savannah. I mean, she almost died when she first was born. Like she's, has one bunch of bone of heart. She requires a lot more medical attention than the other two guys.

• 1:00:15Speaker 23

  If she makes it to fifteen,

• 1:00:18Speaker 23

  twenty would be, you know, unless they come out with some new medical technique. Savannah has heart issues also, I guess. Savannah's not expected to have a full life. Um, she's gonna need a, a pacemaker sooner than later. And Sean Michael had to be detoxed when he was born.

• 1:00:37Speaker 09

  But the baby was more drug addicted. So when the baby was born, Sean and myself, we had to hold, did you ever see a baby coming off drugs?

• 1:00:46Speaker 11

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:00:48Speaker 09

  That was like so horrible. Just holding him and his body's racking and he's screaming.

• 1:00:55Mike Boudet?

  The short lives of those three children sound like utter turmoil. Before Sean's arrest, the kids were taken by the state. After his arrest, the children went to Jen's brother Chris. He noticed the neglect immediately.

• 1:01:12Speaker 11

  I mean, when they came in here, you could tell they were all malnourished. I mean, you could see it in their face. And like I said, you could see their colors, like their eyes were like sunken in almost like all around here. They looked like they were not fed. You could tell there was some, definitely neglect there, some malnourishment.

• 1:01:30Speaker 11

  They had trouble eating when we sat down for dinner or anything like that. And they're getting better. You can see in their face, they got better color. Uh, they're eating better. They're, they're, they're growing, it seems like. God knows what they've been through. I mean,

• 1:01:46Speaker 11

  you know, if they were left alone to fend for themselves.

• 1:01:49Mike Boudet?

  It's heartbreaking to think of what those kids must have experienced.

• 1:01:55Mike Boudet?

  But now they're safe. The way Sean Lannon was arrested was about as peaceful a way as a national manhunt could end. And when he was caught, he confessed. And he didn't just confess once, he confessed in every jurisdiction in which he committed a crime. He pleaded guilty in New Jersey to the murder of Michael Dubkowski. He was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He pleaded guilty in New Mexico for the murders of Justin Mata, Matthew Miller, Jennifer Lannon, and Randall Apostolat. He was given 15 years each for 60 years total.

• 1:02:37Mike Boudet?

  They'll serve the 35 years in New Jersey first, then be transferred to New Mexico.

• 1:02:43Speaker 24

  Murderer, may you live your life miserably, feel the pain which you deserve to feel daily about taking the lives of innocent people.

• 1:02:55Speaker 24

  I can only wish it be hell on earth for your actions you committed.

• 1:03:01Speaker 24

  I don't know what evil poisoned your heart and mind that caused you to murder my brother, Rand Lapastala. What deranged state of mind consumes you to murder your ex-wife Jennifer Lannon, or Justin Mata, or Matthew Miller, or Michael Dubkowski? I do wish that New Mexico had the death penalty. The murderer deserves the death penalty.

• 1:03:29Mike Boudet?

  Sean committed horrible, deplorable acts. He said he did it for the sake of his children, but was he right? I don't know. This is a tough one. What I do know is this, if someone had harmed my kids, I would be pretty relentless in protecting them. Not sure if I'd murder someone, but you could probably push me there with enough trauma. I think a lot of parents would feel the same way. Shawn loved his children that much is undeniable. But the love became twisted into enabling Jen, into endangering the very kids he wanted to protect.

• 1:04:12Mike Boudet?

  And finally into violence he couldn't take back. He saw horror. He carried trauma. And he became a monster in trying to fight monsters. I guess it's a good lesson for us all. I don't excuse what he did, but I also don't mourn every life he took. I can't feel sympathy for people who prey on children or people who put their own children in danger. That's the tension in Shawn's story. Love twisted into vengeance. Protection warped into destruction. And maybe the scariest part is this.

• 1:04:56Mike Boudet?

  Shawn Lanin believed he was doing the right thing. Isn't that something? How often does that happen in society? When people who think they're doing the right thing are just misinformed or tricked by those with ulterior motives? You could do a lot of harm trying to do the quote-unquote "right thing."

• 1:05:21Speaker 12

  I think what happened there was when he went to New Jersey, I think seeing those pictures of that situation might have triggered something to do with Mike. And he was like, just wanted those pictures out, you know, out of Mike's possession.

• 1:05:35Speaker 11

  I don't know if there's truth to that, but I mean, I just heard that he's had pain in his life. And that like, that probably makes sense knowing that, okay, if this happened to him as a kid, maybe that's why he's standing off. I guess it just makes sense if that really did happen. I mean. You know, I can ima- I've never been through that, but I mean, I can imagine that would really torment him. And that's why he felt like he needed to control certain situations.

• 1:06:00Mike Boudet?

  In the end, authorities searched, but never found evidence of the 11 bodies Shawn claimed were hidden in the lava tubes. Whether it was truth, exaggeration, or manipulation, no bodies were ever recovered. And those questions remain unanswered. They never found any proof of any of the pictures either. Shawn said he destroyed Justin's phone and burned the photos Mike gave him. His three children were placed in the care of family far from the chaos their parents left behind. And Shawn Lannon, a man who said he killed to protect his kids, will spend the rest of

• 1:06:41Mike Boudet?

  his life behind bars, unable to protect anyone from anything ever again.

• 1:07:09Mike Boudet?

  After 13 years of doing this, I'm still trying to figure things out. Still trying to figure out what's moral and just and what isn't. So I just wanted to say that I appreciate all of you who stick around for it.

• 1:08:18Speaker 25

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:08:31Speaker 26

  Zolir 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolir, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolir. Zolir may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolir should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolir is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or hardened circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolir.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolir. This is an advertisement for Zolir,

• 1:09:15Speaker 26

  paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:09:18Speaker 17

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.