Pod Insights The Psychology of your 20s 328. How to travel well in your 20s ft. Dr. Henry Ting About this episode Travel is something many of us in our 20s aspire to do well and to do more of. Whether it’s the quintessential Europe summer, road trips to the next city or town over, or exploring forgotten trails and paths, travel impacts us deeply and of course, psychologically.
But it can also have physical and emotional effects as well and it turns out, there is a way to fly and travel better. Today we are joined by Dr. Henry Ting, world renowned cardiologist and Chief Health & Wellness Officer at Delta Air Lines to discuss all the ways the airline is making transit a better part of our trip and some essential tips he has for people in their 20s who want to get the most out of their travel opportunities!
Listen now and check out the Fly and Live Better Youtube Series https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwcGJbNwoJpcjS8dCHuUdidR-pL7Lo0AF&si=3rtsMokq9c7vYJeG!
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0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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0:58 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
1:17 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is just a delight to have you back here for another episode, for a special episode, as we break down the psychology of our 20s. So today, we're talking about a subject that I get asked about a whole lot and that I think actually is one of those core experiences that really defines our 20s, especially for a lot of people who listen to this podcast. It's travel, traveling the world, gap years, uh, semesters abroad, road trips, Euro summers, sightseeing, solo traveling.
1:59 Jemma Sbeg? These are all things that are on, I would say, a lot of our bucket list for those of us in our twenties. Because I think a real theme for this decade for many of us is exploration and expansion and growth and having as many experiences as possible. And travel just fits so neatly into that. Travel just has such a magnetic pull during this chapter of our life. You know, psychologists often call our twenties like a developmental sweet spot for new experiences and for experiences that are going to disrupt our routine and expand our worldview. They say that this period is when those opportunities are most formative.
2:40 Jemma Sbeg? So if you have the opportunity to travel and to see the world or just to go to the next town over during this decade, you should absolutely take it because you're going to see so much benefit from something that is also just probably very, very enjoyable. You know, during this time when we are trying to figure out who we are, we're trying to figure out our career, we're trying to figure out what kind of life we want to lead. Travel really helps us in this process because it pulls us out of familiar contexts and it makes us see the world differently and it makes us, you know, at times uncomfortable and it challenges us and it makes us see that the world is large and expansive.
3:21 Jemma Sbeg? And that's really what we need to believe in our twenties in order to, I guess, open doors for ourselves, in order to explore all the different possibilities. You know, in everyday life, we're surrounded by all the same things, the same cultural norms, the same routines, the same people. When we travel, whether, you know, we're moving to a new city or we're visiting a foreign country or whatever it is, we strip away all of that normalcy. And in the absence of those familiar cues, we're really being forced to look inward and. Kind of decide for ourselves that we are capable and decide for ourselves how we wanna think and how we wanna act and how we wanna connect.
4:04 Jemma Sbeg? I think on top of that, the reason people love travel during this decade is, of course, it's fun, but it also just makes for really great and iconic stories that we're gonna pass down to our kids and our grandkids or to our friends at a nursing home or wherever it is. They become like fibers that kind of create our life, really. They like become the fibers of this tapestry and of this thing that we're creating. So let's talk about the psychology of travel and why traveling actually is one of the best things we can do for our development during this decade. Firstly, travel brings about a profound sense of cognitive flexibility.
4:46 Jemma Sbeg? Cognitive flexibility is basically our ability to experience new things, new circumstances, new situations and problem solve despite never being exposed to them before. It's basically our ability to adapt to new ways of thinking and new challenges that we've never encountered. This is one of the most essential skills that our brain develops in early adulthood. You cannot really get anywhere without it and it is heightened, in fact, through exposure to novel environments like those we find abroad or like those we find traveling. There is actually a science to back this up.
5:26 Jemma Sbeg? A two thousand and ten study found that people who lived abroad for a semester demonstrated when they returned higher levels of cognitive flexibility and also higher levels of creativity, which is related to cognitive flexibility. Because when they were within this new culture, they had to adapt and they saw new things. They had to find solutions to unfamiliar problems. They had to negotiate a new kind of way of understanding and a new meaning. You know, travel doesn't just show us new places and it isn't just about the joy of the experience. It actually rewires our thinking very deeply. We become more comfortable with ambiguity, more willing to embrace complexity and more able to really
6:11 Jemma Sbeg? hold multiple perspectives in our mind at once. It's just such an invaluable skill that I think people don't really appreciate when, you know, they're having drinks on a beach in Bali or they're at a hotel in the city over, like they don't realize what they're doing for their brain. It's incredibly powerful. There's also a deeply personal element to this as well. Many of us grow up in environments that are very, very controlled. We have our school schedule, we have our family routine, we have cultural expectations. During this decade is the first time that we really want to deliberately step away from these boundaries or push back against these boundaries and find out who we are without them. It's a period of individuation and
6:57 Jemma Sbeg? travel is such a tangible way for us to actually test this newfound independence and this new sense of self. It does this by challenging what the psychologist Albert Bandura called our self-efficacy. I wish we talked about self-efficacy more. It is just such a powerful concept. Basically, it's our ability to trust that we can handle challenges. Basically, how much do we believe that we are capable of dealing with things that are difficult or that we can't necessarily, um, yeah, predict? For example, you know, with travel, self-efficacy is, is tested in the sense that we have to ask ourselves,
7:40 Jemma Sbeg? do I trust myself to be able to navigate this new city? Do I trust myself to be okay if things go wrong? Because with travel, something will always go wrong. Do I trust myself to be able to plan and, and make good decisions? Whether you think you can or not, travel is going to force you to do it anyway. And that is essentially a kind of baptism by fire whereby we are forced to see and forced to be made aware of how truly capable we are that in a way that we can't always do in everyday, normal environments. And that really leads to like an important part of travel in our twenties. It's not always glamorous. It can be messy. It can be exhausting. It can be uncomfortable.
8:23 Jemma Sbeg? You know, language barriers and long bus rides and lost luggage and uncomfortable plane rides. But those less than perfect moments actually serve a really important psychological purpose in that they teach us resilience. They show us that discomfort isn't something to fear, but something to move through. This is what we call inoculation by stress or stress inoculations. Essentially, when we experience challenges and when we experience stress, actually that makes us, um, I guess, less likely to be stressed in the future. It's inoculating us or protecting us against future spikes in stress levels
9:07 Jemma Sbeg? because we have this evidence within us that we can handle it. We have this, these experiences to look back on and say, oh, okay, I've been here before. I've done this before. I've survived. I've had positive experiences out of negative experiences. So I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be just fine. There is another beautiful outcome of, of travel beyond just cute pictures and souvenirs and fun memories and beverages and what else, whatever else there is. It also broadens our sense of empathy. Social psychologists have for a long, long time known that exposure to diverse perspectives reduces prejudice. It increases understanding.
9:50 Jemma Sbeg? The more time you spend in another culture around people that you've never met before, who you may not understand, the more you begin to see that the things you thought were universal are not, and there is more than one way to be human. And you learn to respect that your way is not the best way. That is such a fundamental shift and it's one that I think we could all obviously be enduring more, experiencing more. The world feels so polarized. That ability, though, to see the common humanity beneath all our, beneath what the like surface level differences is a very quiet but radical skill and one that I think we could all agree more people need.
10:35 Jemma Sbeg? Maybe travel is actually the solution to that. Getting out into the world is a way to bring people into this understanding. Also, you know, you build relationships. We know that incidental intimacy and having joint experiences with people that are tough or really deep or emotional, incredible profound, they make the bond between you and another person even more deep. You know, there's something about being away from home that really encourages a new level of openness. When you don't have the baggage of other people's expectations or you don't have your usual role or your usual routine, you often feel a lot more freer to, to be vulnerable
11:17 Jemma Sbeg? and to share things and to be like, you know, I've never told anyone this, but this is, you know, I'm processing this like in the moment whilst I'm experiencing these new things with this new person and that intimacy is just like incredibly profound. And it's like, no wonder that people come back from trips and they just have a new lease on life and they see the world clearer and they feel like they know themselves better because they're going through all of these deep psychological changes that they don't even recognize. I also think that there is a pragmatic reason why our twenties are often the best time to travel. Um, we have very few responsibilities, well, fewer than what we may have later in life.
12:02 Jemma Sbeg? And travel is becoming more accessible. We've got budget airlines, we've got work exchange programs, um, remote work as well is becoming a lot more popular. There are all these new platforms that offer affordable accommodation and it's just like opened the world up to us in a way that previous generations didn't have the same privileges as us. It definitely is still a privilege and it is still something that is just like incredibly, we are incredibly blessed and lucky to be able to do, but it's no longer solely reserved for people who are incredibly. Wealthy and this accessibility matters because it means more people are seeing
12:44 Jemma Sbeg? the developmental benefits and the mindset benefits and the empathy benefits and all the benefits of of seeing the world and of going out there and having experiences that make them feel more in touch with your human side and that make you feel more aligned with who you are and what you want from the world and and what you want from humanity and what you want from your life. I know it's so crazy when you talk about travel, people are just like, oh, yes, my fun like spring break trip. And it's like, no, there is a there are deep psychological principles and there is a narrative that is being that you have about your life that is being shaped by these experiences. No wonder people who
13:27 Jemma Sbeg? are older always want to recount the travel stories or always have some brilliant life-changing story that happened when they were flying or on a boat or in a foreign place because these are high points in our life. They are anchor points for our sense of self and reminders of the times when we were bold and we were curious and we were alive in the world and we felt like ourselves. Now, I want to say this, perhaps one of the most beautiful things about traveling in our twenties is that it does not have to be grand and elaborate and expensive. There are there is undeniable magic and, you know, I don't know, walking
14:11 Jemma Sbeg? the walking the Pacific Crest Trail or seeing the Eiffel Tower or going on your dream trip. But actually, some of the most impactful experiences do come from smaller moments, like the trip that was only an hour hour car ride away or a weekend in Airbnb. You know, we place a lot of emphasis on big destinations, but it turns out you can receive the wonder and joy of travel from just about any new environment you haven't been in before. In the end, I think it really all comes down to, are you witnessing things you have never witnessed before in your life? Are you experiencing the novelty of this moment? Are you growing in ways and are you challenging yourself in ways that perhaps you wouldn't have?
14:57 Jemma Sbeg? Are you just seeing the world differently? That is really where the power of this comes from. With that in mind, though, travelling can also kind of take a toll on us emotionally and physically and mentally, which is something we don't talk about all the time. But it turns out there are a lot of people out there interested in and researching how to travel better so that we can get the most out of our trips, get the most out of this experience, starting with the flight, starting with the moment we leave our house. And I got the privilege of being able to interview one of those very people. So stay tuned, stick around for more. We're going to dive even deeper into this topic after this short break.
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16:32 Jemma Sbeg? So now that we've discussed the psychology and the emotional importance of travel in our twenties, I want to get a little bit further into the physicality of it, the biology of it, the science of kind of travel and wellbeing. And like I said, this is not my area of expertise. Yes, I jump on an airplane every now and again, but I wanted to talk to someone who really understood. All the other sides of this better than me. And who better than Dr. Henry Ting, who is a world renowned cardiologist. He also joined Delta Airlines in 2021 as the global airlines chief health and wellness officer. There is quite literally no better person, I think, to talk to about this than him. Welcome, Dr. Ting.
17:16 Speaker 02 Pleasure to be here with you, Gemma.
17:18 Jemma Sbeg? I'm very, very excited for this. Before we jump into the questions that I have for you about your research and Delta's research, can you, we just know a little bit more about you and your background as a doctor.
17:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, thanks, Gemma. First, please call me Henry. I'm not your doctor, but I'm a cardiologist by training. I trained in Boston and worked for over 20 years at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. And I joined Delta Airlines in 2021, as you said, as the airline's first chief health and wellness officer.
17:52 Jemma Sbeg? Which is honestly such a cool concept because I had never thought about the fact that spending time in the air is such a weird thing for humans to be doing. And it obviously like does sometimes affect us like mentally and physically in terms of jet lag and in terms of wellbeing. So the fact that you've like joined in that capacity is super cool. I also want to talk more specifically about a recent experiment that you guys kind of conducted. So you guys have launched a new campaign and a new series that really explores the connection between travel and wellbeing. But as part of that, you did some really cool research. And you guys know on this podcast, we love our science, we love our research, it's tasty.
18:38 Jemma Sbeg? Can you dive into the premise of this for me?
18:42 Speaker 02 So Gemma, I'm a foodie like you, so things that taste good, I'm really excited about. But I think, you know, we take a step back. Travel has made the world smaller, right? Particularly airline travel. It's opened up possibilities that many of us imagined were not possible. And now you get on a flight for three, six or 10 hours, you can be in the other side of the world. Meeting people, places, experiences that you couldn't have imagined. And I think that's a remarkable, fantastic thing for all of us. And you know, I think most of us probably couldn't live without it in terms of the possibilities opens up.
19:23 Speaker 02 But specific to your question, yeah, we conducted an experiment with some Gen Z creators about the impact of travel and the experiment was called Fly and Live Better. One, Delta wants to create a seamless premium experience for all of our customers in flight. But we feel like the flight experience can also help you live better. And when I talk about the flight experience, it starts with your idea that you want to go somewhere and that you planned a trip and that you get to the airport and you check in and the in-flight experience and arriving at your destination refreshed and ready to enjoy whatever it is that's on your mind, whether that's business or pleasure.
20:08 Jemma Sbeg? And so you kind of wanted to see how we could do this better, right? And how we could kind of elevate the experience.
20:18 Jemma Sbeg? Talk me through what happened in this kind of research. I know you guys sent some people on some flights. You gathered some data.
20:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:28 Jemma Sbeg? Tell me about how that went. Go as in-depth on the procedure as you want because I feel like we love to know, yeah, exactly what the data was and all of the changes. And you had four people, right? Can you talk a bit more about their experiences?
20:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, so we had four content creators, social media influencers. Their names were Gabe and Luwan as well as Sophie and Simi. There were two pairs and we wanted to see the effects of travel on their health and wellbeing. And all of them were given Oura Ring to wear to measure their physiologic parameters. So including their readiness score, their sleep score, their activity score during travel and at the destination.
21:16 Speaker 02 As well as they were given a survey to assess their emotional and social well-being during the trip and when they returned. And part of the research was to send these two pairs of people to different destinations. One was a premium bucket list location in Copenhagen where they essentially flew Delta One, stayed at a five-star hotel, and had premium experiences in Copenhagen. And the second was a more local, closer trip, which we felt was also very much more accessible and fun, but didn't require the long flight or the change in time zones, and that was to Seattle, Washington.
22:00 Speaker 02 And they flew Delta Comfort, they had access to our Sky Clubs, and they also had curated Delta experiences in Seattle. And during the trip, we had the Oura Ring on them, so we were able to get metrics of their readiness score, their sleep score, their activity score, as well as surveys of their emotional and social well-being on the trip.
22:23 Jemma Sbeg? And I have to ask, was it different between the long-haul flight and the short domestic flight? Because as someone who, like, I feel like I fly overseas, not all the time, but quite a bit, and when I fly overseas, it kind of takes it out of me. Did you see a difference between those two groups?
22:40 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, very much so. I think what was good about both is their emotional or mental well-being and social well-being went through the roof on both trips. Both trips were eye-opening, including the trip to Seattle, which was more local and accessible, as well as the bucket list trip to Copenhagen. On both trips, their emotional well-being and social well-being escalated, and really because of, I think, the people and the experiences and the different cultures they were able to see. The differences we saw were more on physical well-being, activity, and sleep. Obviously, you know, when you have this longer flight to Copenhagen and Europe, and it's
23:23 Speaker 02 a six- to eight-hour flight, it does take a lot out of you, whereas a shorter three-hour flight to Seattle, it was much easier for them to acclimate or adjust to.
23:32 Jemma Sbeg? But you know what I love about what you're saying is that the long haul flight, the short domestic travel, the dream trip to Copenhagen versus, you know, the around the corner trip for these participants to Seattle, both had very similar mental and social perks and benefits. And you know, I think that that is such a cool finding from this is because obviously, like, we talk about people in their twenties, right? And there's this huge emphasis on doing your Euro gap year or traveling to as many countries as possible, or, you know, bucket list travel items. And definitely online, we see people doing these amazing trips. And I love that what you're saying is just traveling in general,
24:15 Jemma Sbeg? even if it's like to the town next door or to the city, like over the way, is still going to give you that kind of social and cultural and psychological and emotional expansion, which I think actually we need to talk about a little bit more because, again, it's not just these overseas amazing trips that are going to give that to you. Yeah. It's these like small moments of intention, right?
24:39 Speaker 02 Absolutely. I think after they came back, we did a couple of interviews with them. And it was interesting when I asked them, did you get more from a shorter trip? That was closer? Or did you get more from a longer trip that was further away? And it wasn't a simple answer. The answers were different. And I think as a whole, the fact of traveling and seeing different places in of itself was rewarding. And, you know, at Delta, I know we like to say no one better connects the world. And for us, that's connecting not just people to places and destinations. It's connecting people to other people, other cultures,
25:20 Speaker 02 and ultimately experiences that can't really be replicated by, you know, Oculus or a pair of goggles and virtual reality. You know, being able to smell the flowers or go on the bike ride and feel the wind blowing your hair. Those are things that you can only experience in person. And it was pretty fun to hear from these content creators that some of these views, be it in Seattle and Copenhagen, or dinners or experiences were so fantastic. They had to quickly create their content and then put that aside so they can actually enjoy the experience.
25:56 Jemma Sbeg? Okay, this is also a cool finding that you're telling me is that when we are like in these spaces, travel actually allows us to disconnect further from, you know,
26:06 Speaker 02 their work.
26:06 Jemma Sbeg? social media. And yeah, for them, their work, which is something that I also find when I'm traveling, I'm like, it just like unlocks a whole new side of creativity for me as well, because you get out of the space that is known and you get out of, you know, your responsibilities and you're able to just be present as kind of as humans were intended to be. Like, they were intended to be curious and they were, we are intended to be, to explore and to witness nature and witness beauty. Um, yeah, it's actually quite poetic. But I want to talk about something less poetic, but just as important to our
26:44 Jemma Sbeg? humanness, which is the physical impacts of flying and also how we can better fly for our health. I feel like this, this generation is so health conscious and I know I am as well. And so any way that I can like elevate an experience so that my body endures less or so that I feel better is so important to me. Um, what did you find with that? What does flying kind of do from a physical perspective and how can we manage those things?
27:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, let's start with some of the findings we had. Um, you know, for the shorter trip, the four to five hour flight to Seattle, you know, our people arrived ready. Uh, their readiness score was high and remained high. Uh, their sleep score actually improved. So even though they were in a time zone three hours apart, their sleep score on average improved eight points. And their activity score was much higher because they got out and about and they walked and they biked and they were physically active. And that's what we saw in Seattle, that there wasn't a much of a physical toll from the travel or sleep perspective. They arrived ready, refreshed and able to enjoy.
28:00 Speaker 02 The location. Now, the bucket list or dream trip to Copenhagen, obviously a longer trip, six hour time zone difference. You know, they flew Delta One first class and they were in the Delta One Club, you know, before flight and they loved the flight, including the beverages and the food and the premium service. But when you look at when they arrived, their readiness score was lower. Their sleep score dropped by nearly 20 points on their Oura ring. I'd like to say my top sleep score ever in my Oura ring was a 94. So dropping to 74 would be pretty dramatic for me. And their activity score was high.
28:41 Speaker 02 So even though they were sleep deprived, tired, they still got out and did a lot of physical activities that was on average as high or not higher than what they were doing at their home.
28:54 Jemma Sbeg? And here's the thing, I feel like when you're in your twenties and thirties and when you're younger, it's like, I want to get every single little thing out of this experience. Like, if I've flown first class, which that's like a, I would, yeah, bucket list item. If I've flown first class and I'm in this beautiful city, who cares if I'm jet lagged? Like, I'm gonna go and have pastries and I'm gonna go shopping and I'm gonna go see the museums. Like, you, you bet. And then it's like day two and you're like, I need to sleep for the next 24 hours or I'm, or I'm not gonna, you're a zombie. And you were talking to me earlier, like we, we were talking the other day about how you can kind of have the best of both worlds.
29:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
29:37 Jemma Sbeg? Some of the strategies that we can kind of adopt to land, to have our readiness score higher, maybe our sleep score a little bit lower, but not as low as, as it has to be.
29:48 Speaker 02 Right.
29:49 Jemma Sbeg? Particularly, I remember you talking about the importance of understanding your circadian rhythm. Can you expand on that a little bit?
29:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, the circadian rhythm is your own biological clock for a 24 hour day night cycle. And if you Think back in time before we had electricity and lights. That circadian rhythm was driven by daylight or sunlight. And everybody was on the same circadian rhythm. No one flew anywhere, but everybody was on the same day night cycle or circadian rhythm. But as you think about the advances in our society and community, you know, we invented electricity. We invented lights. We invented computers. We invented windows or rooms without windows. That completely disrupted our circadian rhythms.
30:37 Speaker 02 And if you think about what travel does, you and I, although you live in Australia and I live in Atlanta, we have our own circadian rhythms of day night, when we're supposed to be awake, when we sleep and get all activities done. And when you travel to a different time zone that's six hours apart, you may be physically in Copenhagen, but physiologically, your body's function and your brain function is not at the same time that your body physically is there. So there's a separation between your physical person in Copenhagen and your physiologic person. Everything that you know and you do and how you think and how much energy you have
31:21 Speaker 02 and how much focus you have is still in Atlanta. But there are things you can do to accelerate that conversion to a time zone that's six hours different. And there are things that you can do that make it worse. And those are the things I think we can talk about that are science based, that would help a traveler arrive refreshed and convert to that time zone faster.
31:45 Jemma Sbeg? Yeah, so this is what I need to know because I've got to say, you're going to be mad at me, Henry. But when I get on a plane, I'm having my melatonin gummies and I'm also having a glass of wine.
31:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:59 Jemma Sbeg? That's probably not the right thing to do. Can you, because I know like the biggest one is like avoid sedatives, avoid alcohol. Why is that so important to do? Because I feel like a lot of us are like, well, I want to adjust. So I'm going to, you know, try and push myself to sleep faster on the plane or delay sleep when I get there. What's wrong with the sedatives and the alcohol in this situation?
32:23 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, you said it, right? The sedatives, the gummies, the alcohol, they may actually make you tired and have you fall asleep, but it's not restorative restful sleep. We know that the restorative restful sleep is your REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep, as well as your deep sleep. And believe it or not, sedatives and hypnotics like melatonin, Ambien, Valium, or the gummies, they actually cause sleep, but not the right sleep. They don't induce the deep sleep and the REM sleep. So even though you've been asleep for five hours, eight hours, you're not rested
33:06 Speaker 02 because your body gets restorative restful sleep with the deep sleep and REM sleep. And that's why the Ambien, the Valium, the alcohol, those are actually bad for you. You know, and some people, I'll take it to the next level. Some people arrive on scene and get their IV fluid infusions. And the fluids could be yellow, blue, and green. That might rehydrate you and make you feel temporarily better. One, I worry about why the fluid is green, blue, and yellow, and what additives are in there. But two, it doesn't really restore the body. It makes you feel temporarily better so you can do that activity, but it doesn't really restore your body physically just to get a liter of IV fluid.
33:52 Jemma Sbeg? So what you're saying is that we're doing all these things thinking they're helping, but what we should really be doing is what? What should we be doing in terms of resyncing our circadian rhythm?
34:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. So those give you a short-term benefit, but this probably long-term costs your pain, right? Because you'll probably arrive home needing a vacation from your vacation and to get more rest before you can re-enter your work life. So let's get back to the circadian rhythm. Light is important. We know that blue wavelength light is what stimulates your brain and the receptors in your retina to be alert and active for your daytime activities. We know that it's not just any blue cutter light. There's a specific wavelength of blue light that particularly informs your brain that says, hey, it's daytime, it's time to be awake,
34:45 Speaker 02 and stimulates you to be alert and active and have energy. And there's an opposite spectrum of light that's in the red-orange wavelength that starts telling your brain and the receptors in your retina to relax, to decrease your energy level and your alertness, and to prepare for sleep. And that's what you get if all you were exposed to was sunlight without computers, iPads, iPhones, and light bulbs. And how do we then convert that time using light as a key component? So one technology or product that I like to talk about that we've used is something called sky view lighting. This is not just colored lighting.
35:28 Speaker 02 Sky view lighting actually is a specific light that transmits a color that's blue wavelength specifically for alertness during the day. And you can actually program it on your app to time it for the day in Copenhagen, Seattle, or Atlanta, or Australia. But then it automatically realizes the 24-hour cycle and changes the color to red and orange to prepare you for sleep. So that is something you can do to almost tell your brain when it's daylight and when it's nighttime, and do it with light as opposed to sunlight. Now, the science behind this is quite fascinating. I'm sure you'd be interested in it.
36:10 Speaker 02 This company was started by scientists that used to work at NASA, physicists. And they realized that in the International Space Station, which orbits the Earth, the day-night cycle of sunrise and sunset is 90 minutes. And there are windows on the space station which can't be closed. So you're experiencing day and night every 90 minutes. And there's a crew of 10 astronauts who are expected to work in harmony and synchrony to maintain this, the space station and do the research they're doing. And they have to be on the same circadian rhythm. One person can't be asleep while the other person's ready to do the experiments or the research.
36:52 Speaker 02 What they found is without any intervention, the astronauts were becoming one to two hours per day separated in their circadian rhythm as every day went by. And what they also found was 70, 80% of the astronauts were taking medications for sleep because they were trying to get sleep at the same time. But what they did was they put this Skyview light in the space station. And with 30 minutes of exposure to that light every single day, they can keep the 10 astronauts on the same circadian rhythm, day and night, so they can be functional, alert and active, working as a team, if you will, working as a fully functional team.
37:33 Speaker 02 This kind of lighting has also been useful for submarines in the military. Right? Because if you're in a submarine and you're actually deployed underneath the water for two months with no daylight or sunlight, this at least tells your brain, this is daytime and now this is nighttime and keeps the entire crew of 300 submariners to be working as a team, as a functional single team. And the last group where this has been shown to be particularly effective is in places like Alaska, where in the winter you have 23 hours of night. And we know that, you know, prolonged nighttime or prolonged darkness can lead to seasonal affective disorders, that people can get mental health issues.
38:18 Speaker 02 So having this light, be exposed to it and have the exposure to an artificial sunlight was very, very useful. I can tell you that those are the scientific basis of how this Skyview light has been used. Today, we've got sports teams, like the New York Mets, having this in their locker room so that all their players can be fresh and alert and ready when the game starts.
38:42 Jemma Sbeg? Yeah. So what you're saying to me is like, if you want to, if you want to fly better, you need to start really understanding the power of light, right?
38:50 Speaker 02 Yeah. So, you know, we are working with Skyview right now. Delta is partnering with Skyview to try to get a miniaturized version of this light, because the current lights are large. They're overhead lights, they're large desk lamps. But we're working on a miniaturized version that's no bigger than a small iPad that you can take with you as carry on. And you could put into your hotel room or put into wherever you are. So you have exposure to blue light and red-orange light, depending on circadian rhythm. We're really excited about it, because this can help you convert your time and the different time zones faster. So that hopefully will be ready for testing. And we're going to test it with our crew in the next couple of months to see if that works.
39:35 Speaker 02 I would like to pivot actually to another company we've worked with, which is called Fountain Fly Kit. Havich have one over here. It's this, and this is the product they sell. It's Fountain Fly Kit. Again, this is interventions you can do to try to convert your circadian rhythm faster. Right? So if we do nothing, we'll probably convert to that six to eight hour time zone difference over a matter of two to four days, depending on how quickly you acclimate and adjust. If you do the Valium, Melatonin, Ambien and gummies actually may delay it and take longer. This, again, like Skyview, is meant to try to decrease that conversion to a matter of
40:20 Speaker 02 one or two days. So this company was founded by some Navy SEALs. You know, as you think about the Navy SEALs and our military, they may need to deploy and they need that crew ready to carry out their mission. And using supplements, they actually look at your time zone. They have an app. Depending on where you're flying, your specific flight, what time you're flying, the time zone difference when you arrive, their app tells you when you take these supplements, which includes a mixture of magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, as well as omega 3 fatty acids, really to help your body adjust to that local time zone faster.
41:05 Speaker 02 And it can actually show you how much you shifted. Within the app, it also recommends when you should eat, what you should eat, how much you should eat, and when you should go to bed. Again, trying to help your body make that time zone conversion faster so you arrive ready, refreshed to enjoy your trip. And lastly, what they provide in the kit is my favorite, which are these blue blocker glasses. These blue blocker glasses essentially will block out 99% of that blue light we talked about. So you put these on, everything looks like a shade of orange. You've seen these being sold by other makers. But these are well made.
41:49 Speaker 02 They block out 99% of that blue wavelength light. So that when it's nighttime and you're still on your iPad, your iPhone, or on your computer like you're now, you can put this on and you can do your activity, but you're not getting the blue wavelength light that's keeping you awake, alert as of its daytime. So with that combination, you're able to convert your time so much faster. And the most exciting thing that I think FlyKit are working on is trying to create what we call a digital twin. So creating a digital twin of Gemma, so that we know that this, what is this digital twin's physiologic circadian rhythm in Copenhagen? And how far is she deviated
42:31 Speaker 02 from the actual time in Copenhagen versus the time in Australia? Depending on where you want to be, right? You can set your time to, I'm going to Australia tomorrow. I want to be ready for Australia. Or I'm in Copenhagen for a week and I want to be in a time zone of Copenhagen. So that digital twin can tell you based on measurables, biometrics, as well as if you've taken the supplements, if you've done the exercises, if you've done the eating and sleeping, where are you in terms of your conversion?
43:01 Jemma Sbeg? That is honestly amazing. And the fact that people haven't done this sooner is shocking to me because I would be, I'm signing up for all of these things. I like the light idea. Like if I could pack that in my carry on and that's going to save me like a day of explore time. Like I'm doing that in a heartbeat. And also the fact that you're saying to me like what we eat.
43:24 Jemma Sbeg? And when we choose to sleep, even if it's like 15 minutes earlier, can make such profound shifts. I feel like it's going to prevent us from going into travel and being like, okay, cool. So I've just, I've just lost two days when it's probably been really expensive for me to get here. And this is like a once in a lifetime trip. Like you want all of that time maximized. And I think, sorry, to make one final point, because I'm kind of just blown away by this. I think it also emphasizes that. We think of travel as like purely, I don't really know how we think of it. We just think of it as like a form of transport. But it is so mental and it is so emotional and emotional and and physical. And there is like a deeper meaning to it.
44:08 Jemma Sbeg? So talk about how Delta specifically can personalize and is thinking about wellness more as part of someone's journey to their destination.
44:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, we know that travel can be hard, right? You know, there are delays, you know, there are times when it's very crowded and a receipt. And and a lot of people, like you said, think of air travel as how do I get from point A to point B with the most least amount of burden or trauma to be. But at Delta, we're trying to reimagine that. We're thinking about your whole curb to claim experience as a holistic experience. And how can we make that travel experience as seamless and as delightful as possible? So it starts with our fly Delta app, right? Because this is where you plan a trip and you book your flights.
45:06 Speaker 02 You check in for your boarding pass and you know when you're supposed to arrive and you board the plane. But I think every step along the way, we're trying to make that experience as personalized to you as possible, understanding you are a traveler with Delta, that you're not just traveling with us once. We know that Gemma is one of our SkyMiles members and has traveled with us multiple times. We know what she prefers. We know what she likes. We know what she's looking for. And using that information to cater or create your future travel experiences is what we're aiming for. Right? So to that end, for example, we now have as SkyMiles members, free Wi-Fi, high-speed
45:50 Speaker 02 Wi-Fi for every single person on board, to the point where if you're a SkyMiles member, you're on any of our planes, whether it's within the United States or international, you can link up to our Wi-Fi and stream Netflix.
46:05 Speaker 02 You can look at YouTube TV, who is an exclusive partner of Delta with their content that's coming. We're also partnered with Uber, so that if you arrive and we know that you want an Uber, you could book that in flight with the wifi and schedule it, or you can book it as soon as you're ready the plane. All of those are personalized experiences and a seamless experience for our travelers. And I think that's one of the benefits of actually considering, not choosing just the lowest cost flight you can get from Atlanta to Australia, that you consider becoming a loyalty member, like a Skyline member, with Delta or other airlines, where this opens up a world of experiences
46:50 Speaker 02 and curated experiences for you, including, I think one of the things I love the most is, we recently added Shake Shack burgers on our flights, which you can order in advance.
47:00 Jemma Sbeg? Oh, I saw this.
47:01 Speaker 02 It's a great burger.
47:03 Jemma Sbeg? I saw this on TikTok. Yeah, that's so cool.
47:06 Speaker 02 It was, I just had it on my trip from Salt Lake City to New York, and I gotta say, it was as good as a Shake Shack burger at the restaurant. The burger was smashed, crispy on the outside, they separated the buns, so it didn't get soggy. The lettuce, tomatoes, and onions were in a separate bowl, and they gave you their Shake Shack brownie and the potato chips. It was delicious. And to know that you can order that before the flight was fantastic, and knowing that it was ready for you. The other thing we've added a few years ago is, you know, if you're checking in a bag, we now tell you when it's been loaded. So you know that your bag has been loaded on the plane, and then when it's coming off the plane, and when it's at the claim. So you never have to worry,
47:50 Speaker 02 did my bag make it with me? Is it still left in Australia and I'm flying to New York? So those are the things that are just so fantastic. And hopefully, we're hoping that, you know, given it's 2025 and everybody's digital and AI enhanced, that you can do all these things within the Flight Delta app, and that you never have to call someone or go in line. And even in the setting of an IROP, or irregular operations, where weather or something else is interrupting the flight, that you can change a flight or rebook another flight, or have something done for you right within the app.
48:28 Jemma Sbeg? The fact, like, I don't know who your product team is, but they are working overtime. Because that is every single thing and every single frustration I have ever had with flying. Gone, like, is my bag missing? Or how am I gonna get to my hotel? The airport, do I have to pack my own snacks because the airplane food is like not very tasty? Like, am I gonna have, am I gonna be able to like work on the flight? All done, all minimized, which is like, I love when companies are just like, yeah, we recognize that's a problem. And we're not just gonna be like, deal with it, we're gonna actually do something about it. Yeah. Um, I'm a big, I'm a big fan. And also, I will say, advice to my twenty something listeners, which is probably all of you.
49:08 Jemma Sbeg? Please sign up for Sky Miles or please sign up for a loyalty program with your airline. Um, obviously, we're hoping that it's Delta for Henry. But it, it's like this thing that I wish I'd started doing earlier and I was actually at my run club the other day. And my friend was showing me all the air miles that she had accumulated over like years of travel. And we did the math and this was just like incidental travel, like she's going home for a funeral. Uh, she had to fly for work, you know, she went to Europe last year and we were looking at all the miles and it was like, she could go to New York for free.
49:47 Jemma Sbeg? Um, it, it's like, it's like an investment, it's, it's like investing and it's, you literally aren't doing anything other than just doing the normal travel that you would do. But if you, I always think it's worth paying more to travel with the same airline. Yeah. Because you get these perks and because you get this thing at the end of the day, like it, it's worth the fifty dollars more, the seventy five dollars more. Because you literally get free flights out of it. Um, so I'm glad you brought that up. I do have one final question for you, because we've been chatting away for a while. Um, maybe two final questions, but I'm gonna start with this one, which is from your experience, from your experience when you were younger to where you are now. What is one thing you wish people in their twenties
50:32 Jemma Sbeg? knew about travel or did differently about air travel? What's a piece of advice for us?
50:40 Speaker 02 One of the things I think, you know, what I've realized is very few people get on a plane to get miles, right? When people get on a plane to travel to somewhere, no one's doing it just to get their sky miles or loyalty perks. People get on a plane for a reason, and that reason could be business, that reason could be for pleasure, that reason could be a funeral, right? Everybody's got a purpose when they get on the plane. And I think travel in 2025 has become so ubiquitous and different now. The thing that's made the most difference for me is self-care.
51:23 Speaker 02 And whether you're flying premium and first class, or you're in the back of the plane in the middle row, there are things you can do to make that experience better for yourself in terms of self-care, right? Delta's gonna do everything possible to personalize, to enhance your experience. But things that I do now that I don't travel without are I love my eye mask that's memory foam and goes over my face. I love my sleep pillow that prevents me from having a crick in my neck if I fall asleep. And I remind myself to drink a lot of water and drink a lot of hydration. And that is, you know, sort of foundational change, if we can all remember that.
52:07 Jemma Sbeg? Also, to add to your list, noise-canceling headphones, guys.
52:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
52:13 Jemma Sbeg? You've got to invest in a pair of those.
52:14 Speaker 02 I got that, yeah. It's a new world, right? It's like, hey, it's quiet.
52:17 Jemma Sbeg? I know. The first time I ever bought noise-canceling headphones was like when I, because I actually don't, we haven't talked about this at all, but I used to have a really big fear of flying. And, which is, I don't know how this hasn't come up, but other listeners know.
52:32 Speaker 02 Gemma, I would tell you, and I want to reassure you, commercial airline flying is probably one of the safest activities you can do. It's safer than driving, and it's safer than walking on the streets of New York in terms of accidents. We really don't see them. Despite some of the things you see, it is still absolutely very safe. And I can tell you that The airlines across the world compete on everything except safety. You know, whether you're Air France, KLM, Delta, we all share safety protocols and we strive to be the safest form of travel.
53:12 Speaker 02 Period. Full stop. And I think you're in good hands. I hope you feel safer and better about flying.
53:18 Jemma Sbeg? I do. Look at that little industry secret, guys. That is actually, I did not know that. That makes me feel a lot better.
53:24 Speaker 02 Yeah.
53:25 Jemma Sbeg? Um, I think this is all we have time for. I want to thank you so much for joining me and with all your knowledge and all your insight and sharing like the latest and greatest developments. Um, I think the real takeaway from this episode is just to be intentional about your trip and to be intentional about self-care on your trip. Would you agree?
53:47 Speaker 02 Absolutely. It's absolutely to be intentional and, and you know, from our creators and their trips, the last thing I would advise your listeners is find out what makes you feel better and brings you joy. And for Gabe, it was playing his guitar. For Luann, it was journaling. Simi also enjoyed journaling. For Sophie, it was getting a massage. But each of us has something that brings us joy and helps us restore ourselves and that self-care component. So thank you for this opportunity, Jenna. I really appreciated talking with you.
54:22 Jemma Sbeg? Yeah. Don't neglect it just because you're traveling, guys. You don't want to come back and need another vacation from your vacation. Um, thank you again to everyone who has listened and who has joined us for this episode. I want to invite you to watch the Fly and Live Better series on YouTube. It is very, very cool and I love when companies do their own research and bring like an experimental perspective to an everyday experience. I'm going to leave a link in the description and also join SkyMiles for access to more experiences. That's my biggest tip for people in their twenties. Join a loyalty program. Join SkyMiles. Even if you literally only travel once a year, you have no idea how much it adds up.
55:03 Jemma Sbeg? But again, thank you to Henry and as always, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon.
55:15 Jemma Sbeg? I've been really trying to prioritize my health in a realistic way this year. And something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop. Because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns. So I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.
56:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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