Why Your Retirement Plan Is Wasting Your Life | Bill Perkins

The real mistake isn't spending too much. It's dying with money you never used. Bill Perkins built a career generating over $2.2 billion in trading profits as a hedge fund manager. His book Die With Zero reframes what money is actually for. Money is a tool, not a goal. Every dollar you hold at death represents life energy you spent earning it and never converted into something real. The question isn't how much you save. It's whether you're using your wealth, your health, and your time together, in the right order, to get the most out of your one shot. That's where memory dividends come in. When you invest in an experience, you don't just get the moment. You get a return every time you recall it, tell the story, or relive it in conversation. The joy compounds long after the trip ends. But timing matters more than most people realize. Your ability to convert money into meaningful experience decays as you age. The adventures your body wants now won't be available at 72. Life is like Tetris. Get the pieces in the right order, and you get everything. Delay too long, and the window quietly closes. Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life Amazon Ebook Audiobook Bill on X Bill on Instagram In this episode you will: Understand the Die With Zero philosophy and why every dollar you die holding is proof you worked for no reward Discover the memory dividend concept and why investing in experiences now pays compounding joy long after the moment passes Learn the time bucket framework for getting your biggest experiences in the right order before your body, not your bank account, makes the decision for you Identify the biggest psychological crime around money: fearing you'll run out instead of fearing you'll waste your one life Build the belief, mindset, and consistency that Bill Perkins says are the three keys to earning more and actually feeling fulfilled by what you have For more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1937 For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960 Follow The Daily Motivation for essential highlights from The School of Greatness More SOG episodes we think you’ll love: Lewis Howes Solo [$0-1M Blueprint] Mrs. Dow Jones Myron Golden TOPICS Bill Perkins, Die With Zero, memory dividends, time buckets, life is Tetris, scarcity mindset, net fulfillment, legacy and inheritance, Your Money or Your Life, financial fulfillment Get More From Lewis! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone at School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Bill Perkins in the house. My man. Good to see you, brother.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Great to see you.

• 0:10Lewis Howes?

  Great to see you, man. For those that don't know you, you have done amazing things in business and financially over your life. You have, as a hedge fund manager, trading mostly natural gas, you've brought in over 2.2 billion in profits for your businesses. You've personally brought in over $600 million to you individually over the years. And you've had an incredible experience unlocking financial freedom for yourself and showing others how to do that as well. And a lot of people struggle around the idea of money, around the idea of how do I make money? Am I deserving of more money? Is money good? Is it bad?

• 0:56Lewis Howes?

  What do I do with my money? Do I save it for a rainy day? Do I keep it all until I retire when I'm old and can't move? Do I give my money to my kids? Do I give it to charity? What do people do with their money? You've had an inside look around some of the richest people in the world, some of the biggest celebrities in the world, massive personalities, and you've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. And you've also experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:24Lewis Howes?

  Around what money can do for people.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious, where did your fascination with wanting to make more money come from originally? And what do you believe was the true unlock for you? From not having a certain amount of money to it becoming an abundance that started to come your way? What was that moment where you started to see it unfold and unlock in a bigger way?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  I think it was when I was younger, when I didn't have any money and I was out trying to conquer things. And I was having, you know, lots of thoughts about what is it all for? What does it all mean?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  I was a screen clerk, which is basically a peon, assistant assistant peon. And when you're in Manhattan, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a millionaire, right? Very rich people, but. When I was younger, I was like, oh, they're old. Now, they were younger than the age I am right now. I'm fifty four, right? But when you're growing up. Growing up, I was like, oh, gosh, what are they gonna do with the money? Buy another car and drive their kids to school? Like, what is use is it, right? For me, it was all about the girls and the parties and stuff like that. Things that a twenty year old, twenty one year old, a twenty two year old would think. But, you know, the more I thought about it and, and books I read, like Your Money or Your Life, which was a very influential book for me. The money wasn't the goal.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  The life was the goal. The fulfillment was the goal. And so, once I realized. Money was the tool. Yes. Money is, it's like hammers and saws, right? Like, you can keep buying hammers and saws, you can go to the hardware store, but the hardware store, the tools that you get out of there, that's not the goal. The goal is the house and the things you build, right? And so, money is the tool to build your life, right? To give you the experiences you want with your friends, or hedonistic, or charitable. It doesn't matter the type of experience. It's just, money is just one of those tools in your toolkit. And so, once I started to think about that, that I wanted to have an adventurous life, a life with scars, a life with mistakes, a life with risks.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  You know, money had its place, right? In, in building the life that I wanted. And so, I think that's when I started to unlock kind of my fearlessness, my risk-taking. I'll go anywhere to, to try and acquire this tool to build the life I want, but really, it's about building the life I want. And, you know, trying to figure out what kind of life I want, you know? Like, you know, a lot of times, I think I'm building the life I want, but it was really what was advertised to me. You know, you're young, you're impressionable. It's like, oh, I want my life to look like a rap video, or I want my life to look like this, right? And then I do it, and I'm just like, oh, I don't, this is not really me. This is not really fulfilling to me. And so, I've had many journeys about what will fulfill me and what the money's for.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  But ultimately, it's just one variable out of what I would call the three variables. Your wealth, your health, and your time. Like, how do I allocate those resources, right? Over my, over my life to get the most fulfilling life? And so, I, I think a lot of people look at money as the goal, and it's not even close to the goal, right? The goal is a fulfilling life.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  And so is there a calculation or a formula on how to develop a fulfilling life? Where money is a part of that equation?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wouldn't say there's like a formula like do this, multiply by that, X, Y, Z. But there are mental models, right? Like how to think about it like what? The first unlock is like what tools? You know, I'm in this organic spacesuit, right? And I have a finite time here on earth. What tools are at my at my disposal? Right? Well, I got my health, right? But this spacesuit is going to decay and die. Right? So that's how much time I got in my health. And there are things I can do. There's many great books, many great authors and things you can do to maintain this spacesuit as long as you can and as health and be healthy. Right? There's time and time management and mainly the time to the grave. But also the time in between seasons of your life.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Right? Because as you start to pick out the experiences you want to have in your life, they kind of um obviate other experiences. You know, I use very crass examples like the time to be going out to the clubs and dancing with glow sticks is probably before you get married and have kids.

• 5:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  And so if if in your life over the totality of your life, you want to have that experience, it probably goes into a time bucket pre marriage. Right? Not after marriage in order for you to get the maximum fulfillment score.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  And then the the spending of money, right? Like when I go to work, I try my best to attribute what am I working for? Right? What is the money for?

• 6:20Lewis Howes?

  What do you think about when you're doing that then?

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Well, I think about one survival and the lifestyle that I have, the things that I normally think I'm going to be doing for now until the day I die. But I think about the activities, how they will change as my life changes. Right? I mean.

• 6:37Lewis Howes?

  Give me some examples in the last five years to where it'll be different five years from now.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  The going to the club and glow stick days, they're fading. I still go, you know, I like to be young, but they're not as like every weekend, boy, where we go and like, what's going on? Right? So those dollars are spent, you know, they're pretty much useless. Right? I like hiking. I like traveling to different places and seeing different cultures. And so I do a lot of like physical activity while I'm there. You know, when I used to go, when I visited Paris and I was there for the summer, I used to take a leisure learning class and I'd put my books on my back and I'd walk to class about three or four miles and then walk around the city with the students, et cetera. I cannot do that enjoyably today.

• 7:23Lewis Howes?

  Why not?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  My back, my body's deteriorating. I can do six miles. Like I can do it, but it's not enjoyable. Right? It's not like can't do it. It's not as enjoyable. It's not as fulfilling to me.

• 7:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  And so a trip to Paris, walking around eight or nine miles, my knees start hurting, a little swelling, et cetera. I don't get the same exact fulfillment that I did some time ago. We could just draw the line out. That's gonna shrink and shrink and shrink, right? And so I know that trips that involve that type of activity, I need to be spending that money today, not in the future.

• 7:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Right? And so these are the type of things, you know, I think about like, okay, the physically demanding trips and fulfilling things now, I need to be doing those now, getting those experiences under my belt now and not be pushing them out until I'm sixty-six, seventy-two.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Eighty-one, if I may get that far.

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  And so I think a lot of people will look at the, you know, on autopilot are not thinking about these things. They think they're gonna retire one day and then their life is gonna look like a carnival commercial.

• 8:29Lewis Howes?

  And they have perfect health when they're sixty and yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  No. Well, I mean, even perfect health when you're sixty is a lot different than perfect health when you're forty, fifty, twenty, thirty.

• 8:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  And so as your health declines naturally, the activities that you can do or that you will like change.

• 8:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  And so you don't need money for those experiences, right? In the future, you need them now, right? When I, I imagine if I'm anything like my, my parents and my ancestors, I'm gonna enjoy just visiting grandkids, you know, talking about the old days, et cetera. And so what I'm trying to do is create what I call memory dividends. Having the experience now, um, not only do you get enjoyment from the experience when you do it. You get a piece of that enjoyment every time you bring it up. Every time you discuss it, like I went on this trip and this happened and we got stopped by the security guard and we had to sleep overnight and we met this other couple and it was great.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  We had a good time and you tell that story and that creates another experience which also gives you joy. And so when you invest in experience, not only do you get the joy of that experience and the fulfillment experience, but you get what I call the memory dividend every time you access that experience through your memories.

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  And much like investing in a bank or a stock that pays dividends, investing in the experience pays a dividend. And so these mental models, right, like, you know, it's a lot to remember, right? Like, oh, what do I do in experience now? I just come with a formula, formulaic way of thinking, not a formula of like, okay, how do I think about the totality of my life? What experiences belong where? And what will be the most fulfilling for me?

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  So if someone's in their mid twenties, early thirties, right? And they're in this kind of 10 year range, how can they start thinking about this? Maybe they've just said, you know what? I'm just hustling. I'm going after money right now or a career just to make money that I'm spending it all. I don't really have much in savings yet, but I know I should be investing. But how can they start to think about the formula for their life in terms of maximum enjoyment or fulfillment? These memory dividends, which makes a lot of sense to me, without being broke the entire time.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Right. So for each person in each profession, right? Like there are certain situations where people have pensions, guaranteed jobs, et cetera, and career progression, right? Where their salary is going to be going up and they're also going to have their own health, right? Like, like they're very healthy, not that healthy, et cetera. And what they're trying to do is thinking about, okay, what experiences in the 20 to 25 bucket or 25 to 35 or whatever, any way you want to break it up? What experiences belong now? Okay. That I should be doing now and gifting the memory dividends to my future self?

• 11:20Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Or what things am I doing now that are robbing my future self from stability? You know, and and in causing worry, right? And so there was a period in my life when I was in my twenties, I was seesawing, right? I was like saving too much. I was I was borrowing from my poor self to give to my future richer self, which did not make any sense, right?

• 11:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  And then I went from the I'm gonna party and going crazy and I'm spending every single nickel I made, right? Uh, to creating future instability for myself by not saving. And now, so for each person, their career path, their earnings potential, et cetera, that will be different. But the the thing is to get off autopilot and be thinking about it.

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  Right, be and may maybe you're fumbling your way through it for a year or two. You're like, okay, I'm not sure what it's gonna be, but I'm paying attention to what I want right now in the future.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Right, like, so you you know, people will have other experts like a financial planner. You know, a lot of times the financial planners are about, let's maximize the money. It'd be like, that's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to maximize fulfillment.

• 12:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  And so they will keep you safe and maybe you'll save a certain amount of money, but you're the driver. You're responsible for your own life. And so if you want to be intentional and get the most out of your entire life and each time period, you have to think about, okay,

• 12:38Speaker 01

  is backpacking now through Europe? Is this the period to be backpacking through now or visit twenty, thirty years from now? Is this is this a trip or an experience or or, you know, or charitable thing that I need to be doing now or is this something that I need to be doing later in my life, right? Just that thought process by ordering your life properly will help you have a more fulfilling life.

• 13:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes. What do you think is the biggest psychological crime someone can make when it comes to their money?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I think the biggest psychological crime is people fear running out of money instead of fear of wasting their life.

• 13:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And so, you know, they have this fear of embarrassment of like, I'm gonna run out of money and I'm gonna be broke or I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z instead of fearing like, I am wasting my life. I have for the we were talking about the twenty to thirty bucket. I'll just, you know, this is it. This is the only period I'll be twenty to thirty. There are certain activities, experiences that are meant for this bucket, right? People are marketing services and products to you. You you know that they're there, right? Like, I don't want to do them. Like, go have fun, right? But but and you only get one shot, one go around.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  You know, and so, and they're worried about, you know, in the thirty, forty. So I think people worry about embarrassment, what other people think, judgment about their lifestyle or them failing in the future, et cetera, as opposed to worrying about like, I don't want to waste this ride. Hmm. And it's not even the ride for the whole life, every single period of your life. So if you're a parent with small children, not wasting that period. With teenagers, I know a lot of us would like to waste that period and just be like, get in the spirit, but that period, and then, you know, eventually you don't have kids in the house anymore. And that's a different period of your life. And there's different activities and different opportunities that that go. And I often say, um, life is like Tetris, right?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Like, if you were in heaven, let's assume this heaven, and you're about to come down to earth as a human being and God's like, here's the bucket of experiences. And when I say use experience, I mean, choices, right? I mean, in the broadest sense, hedonistic, charitable, whatever. Yeah. And you're like, oh, the infinite bucket of experiences. I want to go hiking, I want to do tennis a thousand times, I want to have sex a jillion times, I want to do all these things. You're throwing them into the experience, like I want to start a business, I want to go to school, blah, blah, blah. And it's full. And God goes, great, you can have all those, you just have to get the order right. Hmm. So life is like Tetris. You know, you remember the game Tetris, where you had to get the shapes right? Life is that way. Like, if you don't have the experiences at the right time,

• 15:20Speaker 01

  they run to interfere with each other or your ability to do them disappears. Hmm. So you can have all the money in the world, right? Um, when I was in, um, Saint Petersburg, Russia, this is before the war, a beautiful city. And one of the things about Europe is like, things they allow you to do would be completely illegal in the United States. It's not like, it's not like safety laws or whatever. So you can climb these steps, walk around the churches and then walk around the balcony. It's beautiful, it's amazing. It's, it's, it's like, wow, I can't believe we still get to do this. And it was like a hundred and fifteen steps. I remember it was an odd number, I think it might have been one eleven, but, um, And there were like six or eight tour buses of senior citizens, you know, coming to go see

• 16:05Speaker 01

  the museum and in this church. Not a single one climbed those steps. Not a single one. So their trip to St. Petersburg was entirely different than my St. Petersburg trip. Their experience, the information they got to process, the things they got to see was totally different. I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable, but perhaps in a city that allows you to roam around and do these things and go on cliffs and overlook type of things and you enjoy it, perhaps that trip should have been taken much earlier.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  And so, you know, that's a, an example of getting the order right.

• 16:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes. Getting the order right and making sure you're using your money at the time where you're able to use it the most effectively, right?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  It's getting the most out of that tool. It's getting the most out of that tool.

• 16:53Lewis Howes?

  Right. The tool of money.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Your, your ability to convert your money into, into a meaningful, fulfilling experiences decays over time. So, you know, your brain reaches a mental maturity around 28. Your body is physical maturity around 33. So if, by and large, if you were in the best shape of your life at 33, that is the top. Then you go into plateau and decline. I will never ever, unless, you know, new technology, gene therapy or whatever, but uh, be in better shape than I could have been at 33. Right? It's over.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't mean you can't be in still great shape.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  No, no, you're still in great shape, but I'm just saying my ability to do certain, like, listen, I can get, I, I was recently-

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  You're not playing college football anymore.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Last year I was like one in like great shape. I, I got down to like a nine percent body fat. My cardio VO2 was over, but my, my lazy 28-year-old self will smoke myself in a race.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Like smoke myself, right? Like you just-

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't need to warm up.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  No, no, not just go, not stretching anything, right? Like, and, and so, and then on top of that, if I race, I'm, I'm sore afterwards. Like my knee's hurt and I got that part-

• 18:03Lewis Howes?

  You need to recover for a week.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, cartilage, you know, in the back is kinda, you know, all those things, right?

• 18:07Lewis Howes?

  And he's just hopping around, you know, no sleep, able to do whatever. Yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  He's just like, that guy. So lucky. He just doesn't know how good he has it. You know? And so, um, you know, I think about these things and, you know, sometimes there's very small things. Like I was, I was at a place where my friends were going to go wakeboarding at my 50, 50th birthday. I was, you know, I'm generally a lazy guy. I'm laying on the beach. I'm like, I don't want to go. You guys go, whatever. And then I thought about it. I said, when am I ever going to have a chance to go wakeboarding in the future? We're here, we're in the Caribbean, there's a wakeboard boat there. When's the next time there's going to be a wakeboard boat? Maybe, maybe two years from now, three years from now? And I thought about my back, you know, once your cartilage starts going, it just keeps going. I thought, this may be the last time I'm able to go wakeboarding and enjoy it.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  And I'm going to switch to another physical activity. So I got my lazy butt off the beach and said, I'm coming. I did a jump, I landed a jump, I was happy, you know, it surfed. And, and that was the last time I will ever go wakeboarding. Because of the speed of wakeboarding and, and it's, so now I wake surf, which is a lot slower speed and I can do it later in my life. But my wakeboarding days are gone forever. And had I not done it at that time, it would have been years and years before, but I'm wakeboarding. And so I got all the enjoyment, all the memory devils of that trip, hanging out with my friends, et cetera. But that's it. The, the wakeboarder bill is dead.

• 19:34Lewis Howes?

  But now you have that memory dividend that you can tell this story to me and you can think about that story for the rest of your life.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Yes, and I can also use it as a teaching tool, right? So for people who are still, you know, got all their cartilage,

• 19:49Speaker 01

  all their cartilage and no broken bones or anything like that, like, hey, you know, the time is coming where whatever activity it is, it, it will be the last time for you.

• 19:59Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  And you'll be moving on to other activities, right? So I'm a wake surfer, you know, maybe golf.

• 20:05Lewis Howes?

  And maybe you're just a boater eventually, right?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  Uh, your book has really taken off in the last few years since it come, since it came out. It's called Die With Zero, Getting All You Can From Your Money And Your Life. And I want people to get a, a few copies of this because I think there's been this misconception of like, make as much money as you can and save it for as long as you can, so that you can enjoy the rest of your life when you retire at 64 or 72 or wherever the retirement age is, right? This kind of concept, save, save, save, invest, which I'm a big fan of saving and investing.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  So that it will pay me dividends now and in the future. And so I won't stress or have worry about money. But I think people take it to extremes sometimes.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  And they don't enjoy their time. And they they get the bucket list and the time bucketing backwards.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 21:04Lewis Howes?

  And so why should we be thinking about die with zero? And the idea of having nothing when you die for some people seems selfish. You know, what about leaving money for my kids or for charities? Or, you know, am I going to leave my family with nothing? What does that say about me and my legacy?

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  So what is your your thoughts around, you know, these seventeen questions I just asked? Around, you know, how we should be thinking about money for retirement? How we should be thinking about money for leaving it behind? How we should be thinking about legacy? And how does having money in the bank when you die? Connect to legacy? What's your thoughts on that?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna go first, which is on everybody's mind. And one of the number one questions I get is like, what about the kids? And there's a chapter called, What About the Kids? And it's about charity and and kids. And so the same laws of physics that govern your body govern your kid's body. Okay, so they're gonna grow, their brains are gonna eventually mature. Trust me, parents, their brains will eventually mature.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  How many kids do you have?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  I have two, I have two, sixteen and nineteen.

• 22:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Um, and and and and their bodies will reach physical maturity. And then they will plateau and start to decline. So if your body is unable to convert the money into meaningful experiences as you age, right? Like your your physical ability to either enjoy them or do them goes down. The same is true for your kids. So actually, giving a smaller amount to your kids at an earlier age will be more impactful and more fulfilling than waiting till you kick the bucket and they're sixty six or sixty five or sixty, right? And two thirds or more of their life has gone by, right? Um, so what I advocate for is that be intentional.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  You want to give your kids fulfillment, a fulfilling life and choices. So whatever you're gonna give them, you know, some people like, I'm not giving my kids anything. They gotta make it. I got to make it. They had to make it. But whatever you're gonna give them, give it to them at the right time. Timing is important. And so I advocate, you know, somewhere between 25 and 33, right? Different, some kids are very mentally mature and they can handle money when they're younger and, and, and, you know, it's gonna be fine. And some are a little bit later in life, right? But at a certain point, it's their life, right? You've done your best to prepare them to navigate the world. They're their own person. If they want to light it on fire, let them light them on fire. If they want to do this, you know,

• 23:43Speaker 01

  and they're industrious, etc., let them do that. But it's their adventure. And so, and that money has the most impact when you give it to them then. And also your legacy, you know, people like, I'm working hard for my kids, you know, they're 60, I'm working hard for your kids. Like, well, part of the legacy and the fulfillment from your kids is spending time with you, moments for you, not you going to work, you with them, memories with them. So in some situations, in a perverse way, you going to work to make more money to give your kids when you die is actually taking away from the fulfillment.

• 24:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And diminishing your legacy.

• 24:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Right? So we have to be really intentional and think about, what are we trying to do when our kids, we're giving our kids money? And, you know, six-year-olds are not kids, you know what I mean? So I, I think one of the most asinine things we do, or the most autopilot, not living with intention things we do, is wait till we die to transfer assets to our kids.

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Right? And that's the same thing with charity, like charity is now, right? People are hurting now, dying, starving, whatever the issue is that speaks to you, it is now, right? So, you know, I, I give kind of examples, it's like, imagine the people that donated to, you know, funds for polio, said, I'm just gonna wait till I die. And then more kids have polio, right? You know, there's people, you know, and I just use that as an example. And even if it's into education, the returns on education or a human being educated right now far exceeds any market return that you can make. So if you are a charitable person and you, you identify capital that you're not gonna use before you die. Now.

• 25:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  So how do you think about this in your own life then? With terms of, you know, you have two teenage kids. How do you make sure that you raise kids to not rely on you for money? And you're not giving them too much personally, but you also want to maximize for fulfillment and memories. And you, you know, you have a.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  So you're going on a sub question is like, do you give your kids money or not? Right. And that there's books on this, like give them, there's books like, don't give them anything. And there's books like, give them everything.

• 25:59Lewis Howes?

  How do you navigate that? Cause it's all, you know, you've got so an amazing lifestyle. You've got properties, you've got boats, you've got planes, you got, you know, do you put them in the back of the plane? Coach and you're in first class.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  They take a Greyhound.

• 26:12Lewis Howes?

  Like, how do you do it where they're psychologically set up for success, but also rich in memories and experiences with you?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  So by me quote unquote, making it right, I've made my life easier. And therefore their lives are easier and they they're in a bubble. Right. And as much as I try and, you know, the exposure, I try and get them outside the bubble.

• 26:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  But the main thing I wanted to do is raise strong, independent women who are kind, who can navigate the world. The best I can hope for, right? And as far, you know, the way I look at it is, is that I have an amount that I want to give them, right? That is for them to do as they please when they're mature enough to get it. So it's not my money. It's in a trust. It's separate because if Bill Perkins goes out gambling in some poker game, you know, he loses it. They're not going to get my, it's not my money. You know what I mean? It's their money. So I don't have to worry about the risk to me, et cetera, they're taken care of. But they don't get to use it. It's not like a 16 year olds running around in a Ferrari or something like that.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  It turns over to them to their control when they're between 28 and 33. I think mine is between 28 and 30.

• 27:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And does it unlock every month a certain amount or is it a lump sum?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  It's a, there's, there's, you know, there's all, we're getting to state and, and trust planning. But you know, there's a board that has for health support and maintenance. They can trust, not me, other people can be like, okay, you're going grad school. We'll give you a little bit of a safer grad school, whatever. But all of it unlocks to them at 30.

• 27:43Lewis Howes?

  Got it. Okay.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Because I've lived my life. So I, I, I, I say to my friends, like, me, I live my life. It's their life now. If I'm going to give it to them, if it's a real gift, it's theirs.

• 27:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  When they're able to handle it. You know, I'll give it to them and they're like, well, what if they can't handle it? It's too late. It's not like at forty, it's gonna help them anymore and their health is declining, right? So I'm just like, let them have the adventure they wanna have with the resources that I'm willing to give them. So I don't tell people, hey, you have to give your kids money or not. I just tell them the when. The when, the when, the when is very, very important.

• 28:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's your responsibility, I guess, as a parent to educate, teach, train them to be kind, you know, thoughtful human beings.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:25Lewis Howes?

  And hopefully they're able to make those decisions by then and that's in some way your responsibility as well to oversee that up until thirty or whenever that time is.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's, it's, at a certain point, your job is done.

• 28:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  And the raising, and they're their own person. They're adults, right?

• 28:40Lewis Howes?

  They're not gonna listen to you anymore.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  They're not gonna listen to you anymore anyway, right? Like you're on the advisory committee. I'm already, I think I'm already on the advisory committee.

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  They call you when they need money.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Exactly. I'm on the advisory committee and, and you hopefully have done a good job, but your job, that part

• 28:55Speaker 01

  of trying to control your kids is done. You mold through advice from that point on and so a gift is a gift. And, and my gift is set.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  And it's done. If I wanna, if I feel, if I come into a windfall and hit the lottery and I feel like, hey, I wanna give more to them, I can add to it. But I'm living intentionally, like, hey, this is when my, they're gonna reach a peak mental maturity, mental acuity and physical maturity. This is where they're gonna hit plateau, et cetera. This is when it's gonna have the most impact on their life, right? It's gonna have less impact on their life because it can't even convert it into experiences they would later on in their life, right? And so it's their adventure, right? Their adventure to have. I don't wanna control people from the grave.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes. Here are the rules.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Here are the rules I set forth. You must do this. I'm just like, what kind of human being does that? Like tries to control another human being with money? Right? I want them, like you've done your training, have the adventure you want to have. Right. And so, um, that's how I think about that. Now, the having the zero part is, you know, one of the seventeen questions. Yes. Is, if I spend, I have only, the only thing I have is my life energy and that's the time I have on planet. Right, on this planet, the minutes, et cetera. So if I spend that time going to work, let's say I'm just digging holes, digging holes. And they gave me this, this thing called money. Could be chucky shoes, token, could be anything. They give you this thing called money. And then I just hold it.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  And then I die with it. I've essentially wasted my time digging ditches. Right? I've worked for no reward. Right? We can see on his face that that's awesome. Right? Like no, you don't want to go do something that you normally wouldn't do with all the other activities you can do on this planet. Right? Almost infinite choices. Right? We don't want to go do that for no reward. Right? So, we're going to work for something. Right? And a lot of us are going to work, you know, some of it, we enjoy it, we enjoy what we're doing, we enjoy teaching people. But that reward, when we slice up the reward part, that is for us to use as a tool in our tool bucket to maximize our fulfillment.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Nobody goes into the hardware, so let me get some hammers and saws and then throws them away. Right? Well, I guess there are some people buy hammers and saws, put them in the garage and never use them. Right? But, but that's the, that's the, that's what happens with a lot of people is they just save, save, save, save, never use it, die. Right? And so I'm trying to stop them from doing that and say, hey, let's think about how we can spend and use all your assets, your wealth, your health and your time, or focusing on your wealth,

• 31:40Speaker 01

  before you die to get maximum fulfillment and the maximum ride. Yes. Right? And so one of the axioms is spend all your money down to zero as close as you can before you die.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Right? So you do not waste your life working for no reward.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. So in your twenties, you may not have a ton of excess money. So you're not, you, you might need to save a little bit in your twenties, but also experience life and have adventures, but not be broke and in survival mode constantly, right?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Right. There's different things you're able to do, right? Like you're, you're able to go, let's go hiking with my friends. Let's go biking. There's a lot of experiences.

• 32:14Lewis Howes?

  Do a lot of free things.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  A lot of free things, a lot of raging, a lot of, you know, super saver tickets, back of the bus.

• 32:20Lewis Howes?

  House parties.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Z, Z pop at the concert. Those, those are some of the greatest times of my life.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  Backpacking.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:26Lewis Howes?

  Camping.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. But you're also saving away for security, right? The, the one experience we all want, and you know, people push back is like, the experience is survival. We want to be able to survive. Like if you're out of the game, okay, then, then there's no fulfillment.

• 32:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  So we want to be able to survive and we need a calculator survival number. Like we gotta pay rent, we gotta feed ourselves, we gotta do these things, right? And we're saving for some sort of calamity where I'm unemployed for a couple of weeks. But a lot of times, um, we're saving for, I want to go on this trip. I want to buy this house. I like this car. I want to get the girl the ring. I, you know what I mean? I want to take my parents on a trip or dinner, whatever it is. I like to attach the money to activities. So they're not just working for some abstract Chuck E. Cheese token that we never cash in. Right? You've been to Chuck E. Cheese?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  So, so, so, and, and so it's like, okay, um, great idea, you know? So I, I, I first like to think about like, okay, when we're saving for retirement, we're talking about things is like, what's your survival number? Right? Cause we're working for survival and then everything else is choices. Everything else is about the brand adventure.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Right? And it's like, okay, what adventures go where in our life? What timeline? Where do they go? Right? And what adventures will I really be doing? In my sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, right? Now, there's the Jack LaLanes who are like, I'm sure, you remember Jack LaLanne?

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. The juicer? The juicer or the?

• 33:57Speaker 01

  No, no, there used to be a guy when I was growing up, an old guy.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  The health guy, the health guy?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  The health guy.

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  No, the Jack juicer, the?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, he would have like, he would be like seventy years old.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  I'm sure he was raging in clubs and spending money on a fire as older, but like, most of us, you know, will be more, have more, uh.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  More relaxed life later in life.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Sedentary lives, right? More relaxed lives that, that aren't really high in consumption. And the data shows this, like, if you look at the data, even adjusting for healthcare costs, because I go, what about healthcare? Even adjusting for healthcare costs, seniors spend less money as they age in aggregate.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  I, I have, uh, I get asked this question a lot, and I, I'm gonna speculate, they can't.

• 34:41Lewis Howes?

  They can't, they're sitting around all day.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  They can't spend the money. They can't.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  They can't travel, they can't do.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  They don't have, they don't have.

• 34:48Lewis Howes?

  The energy.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  They don't have the attitude or the ability.

• 34:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Both.

• 34:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Right? It's a penny again, I don't wanna go flying, but my mom's that way. We had to basically kidnap her to go to, to go to Scotland for her eightieth birthday. She loved it, it was great, but it was a kidnapping.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  It takes a whole year to build up the energy.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Energy, let's go.

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  She's like, I don't go on a plane, I gotta sit, it's cramped, and I don't like it, I don't feel, whatever. I mean, she had the best time in Scotland, right? But, but they just don't.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  You get comfortable with your life.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I tell a story in the book, like, I was like, uh, you know, maybe insensitive gift or a not very thoughtful gift, like, remember, I'm young and I'm on autopilot. I'd made some money and I was a broker and I was like, oh, my grandmother's birthday, I, I, I would want money. She's been giving me money since I was a kid, like a dollar for each age, right? I was like, I gave her, I was like, here you go, here's, here's ten grand. You know, I gave her ten grand for her birthday and she bought me a sweater. And, and that was it. Oh, my daughter, a cheat, well, later on, but that was it. Like, I thought she was gonna call up her friends, we're going to, we're going to Vegas, we're going, whatever, like, with some adventure, or like, and I was just like, I'm an idiot, I was a complete idiot, like, I just realized, like, oh, wow, like,

• 36:00Speaker 01

  the money was almost useless to her, right? You know, it was, it was, it was useful as a tool to like, give other, me a sweater that I'd probably need.

• 36:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? About to move to Texas, right? It's not, it's not sweater weather, right?

• 36:17Lewis Howes?

  What is the most meaningful thing that people who are more seasoned in life want that money can't give them?

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Well, I would say that money, money, you can't give it to them. It can be a tool to enhance the experience. I think what they want is, senior people want these relationships, time with their kids, family, loved ones, these adventures. You know, I used to say to people, you rarely see people go to the movies alone. We love shared experience. We're wired to connect, right? And so, you know, people have different tribes, different friends, different et cetera, but they love taking their whole family on an adventure. Now, it could just be a picnic, right? And a small one, like at all levels, you can do that. But you can make it more fun and people talking about it and having et cetera. So I think,

• 37:09Speaker 01

  you know, money doesn't give them that. It's their personal connections, but you can make them better.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Right? You can, you can make them more fulfilling. You can make it easier for some of your, your family members. Like, oh, I live so far away, I can't afford to go. Oh, it's okay. I'll fly you.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Or I'll pay for the bus ticket.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Or I'll drive and come pick you up, right? These are the things I think that money can't particularly give them, but can enhance the experience, right?

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  When you, you know, you were talking about this kind of generational fear of our grandparents from the Great Depression to our parents to, you know, all these different fears that were passed down generationally or conditions around money, right? Beliefs around money.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:50Lewis Howes?

  Save it for a rainy day, retire with money, all these different things. Which seemed to be, makes sense back then, right? When maybe it wasn't as abundant or they were in scarcity, right? Or in survival mode. So maybe that made sense for a period of time for them, but it, but it seems like there's more money available now than ever before. There's more printed physically.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:11Lewis Howes?

  Available than ever before.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  That's for sure.

• 38:14Lewis Howes?

  And there's more ways to make money than ever before. There's more side hustles, side gigs, creative endeavors that people can do to make money. What was the actual moment where you broke the generational conditioning around scarcity? And unlocked it into abundance for you, where it converted into money entering your hands and your bank account?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  I, I think it's, it's weird because I, I was a screen clerk. I think I was making like sixteen thousand dollars a year.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  You know, and then driving a limo at night to make ends meet. And my roommate at the time was a waiter and he was making like seventy seven thousand dollars a year. And I was thinking, I can always wait tables, but I wasn't in it for the sixteen thousand, right? I was in it for a career path and really make a bunch of money. And so it's a kind of weird thing. And I was just kind of like, if I lose my ego, which I had no ego back then, I was driving a limo at night. I was like, if I lose my ego, I can always get a job. I can always get a job. I'm not going to be completely busted, right? I might be poor and I've been broke before and I'm okay with that. And I've had great times, right? Like, you know, I'm good friends. We go off, do whatever. But it gave me kind of this freedom.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Like there's this safety net of like, I will be able to find something. Right? And I remember um, one of the FCMs, I worked for this guy named Mark and he was like, I used to be a garbage driver. I, if this, they shut this place down, I can, I can always drive a garbage truck. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, if I lose my ego about like, I'm too proud to do this job, right? Then I can always go work. You know, it, it, there's way more jobs and way more opportunities and I don't have the fear of like moving to another place to get the job or going to another place, et cetera. You know, it's, it's painful for a lot of people. People have the fear of going into a new environment.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  And moving, which I think limits them to only local opportunities. But for me, I was like, I'll go anywhere for the opportunity. I'll go to Siberia, you know? You know, I was one of those dumb, young, ambitious people that will like, I, put me on the moon. I will trade. Right?

• 40:30Speaker 01

  So like when I got the chance, I was in New York City, I left, didn't know anybody, had a mattress and an empty room and you know, I'll be there, you know, sir, yes, sir, let's go. Right? And so, and if that didn't work out, so what?

• 40:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  I had an adventure. I want, I want the scars. Like I want, like a life with no mistakes to me is a uninteresting life, an unfulfilling life, actually.

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Like you haven't touched your limits. You, you don't know what your limits are because you never failed.

• 41:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  If everything's always working out and you fail, it's like, well, you never touched your limits. You never really sent this thing until you run so hard where you throw up and you're about to pass out, which, you know, I did in college, when they used to make you run, you know, back and forth.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  You don't know your limits, right? Like you don't know when you're struggling with the weights, right? Like physically, but like also emotionally, like until you've said, I love you first and you've gone through the break and you've done everything you can for the relationship. Like you just don't know, like this is as much as I can give in a relationship.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Right? This is as much as I can do. This is as far as I can go figuring out this business. I need to bring in help or partners or whatever, you know, like all those things. And so, um, wanting a fulfilling ride is the goal, right? Literally the money. The money is only a tool to get the fulfillment. Now, I have fancy fulfillment things, right? And they do it, but, and I am learning how to use that tool to drive my fulfillment. But I'm also learning, hey, from other professionals and other verticals in the health, like, how do I optimize my health? There's time management books. How do I optimize my time? And then even in the what bucket, there's like, how do I get the better deal to get the same experience and the same fulfillment points?

• 42:16Speaker 01

  When I go to Greece, I don't do that hotel, get the Airbnb, it'll be nicer and you actually have more fulfillment. It'd be cheaper and you have more money for the trip to Japan, right? So I'm just saying like, at the macro level, you know, this is how these things interact. And this is how you should be thinking about the arc of your life, but then you can go into each vertical and sub optimize.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  And so, um.

• 42:36Lewis Howes?

  But what was that psychological moment for you where you realized, oh, I'm actually good at making money?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 42:42Lewis Howes?

  And not, not like, okay, I'm making 16 grand a year and I'm working a nice, you know, driving a limo and, but actually I'm breaking through the generational conditioning that I live in scarcity to now I live in abundance or have the potential. To live in abundance. How did you learn that you were worthy and deserving of more money? How did you learn that you were capable of generating wealth?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I don't know if I learned it or I just believed it and it became.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 43:17Speaker 01

  So I always tell people, like, I think one of my advantages was that I was delusional. And so they were like, what do you mean? I was like, like, I believed I can do it. And that drove my decisions. Now, that didn't mean I was gonna be successful. I could have easily believed I was done it and and I'd just never have done it, right? Tried a hundred times.

• 43:36Lewis Howes?

  Failed and broken, yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  But the fact that I had that delusion and that belief that I can do it, that I you could throw me in the desert and I'd have a fighting chance. I'd figure it out. I'd drink my own pee. I'd do whatever. You know what I mean?

• 43:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Whatever it takes.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Whatever it takes. I'm just gonna do it. Like, I had this delusion that I could do it. And because of that. The drink of the big Oscar.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Sometimes you gotta drink your pee if you're in the desert and you're dying of thirst, you know? You know, rehydrate. But, you know, eat the eat the bugs, right?

• 44:13Speaker 01

  That delusion sent me the course to try and to learn. And so when I was learning, it wasn't like I couldn't learn this or I couldn't learn options trading or whatever. It's like, I can do this. I can do this because I had this delusion. And so I think I think the belief is powerful. It's very, very powerful.

• 44:30Lewis Howes?

  How'd you get that belief? Most people don't believe in themselves enough to believe they're deserving and worthy of money, of wealth, of abundance. How did you get to believe you are deserving?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so I had a very topsy-turvy relationship with my dad. He came from a different generation, hard-boiled, right? He was pre-civil rights, you know? Dreams were squashed. It was openly squashed and legally squashed, right? Like, and this and he and and I was born post-civil rights, okay? And so, um, one of the things, and I don't want to turn this into a whole racial story, but one of the advantages of growing up in Jersey City being black is that.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  People in that period, people talk about you. You're accused of this, why are your people like this? You know, you're inferior, you can't do this, or whatever. And so what you develop, okay? The, the good side of that is, you don't care what people think. You've been trained. You know, you, you know what's true about you and your people and your relatives or whatever. Not bad people, we're not criminals, I'm not whatever, not this, I'm not inferior, I'm not whatever. You just learn to brush that all off, right? And my dad was a badass. And he was like, you can, you know, you can do whatever. You, you, we, we, look at all the adversity we have to deal with and we overcome, right? And so that not giving a shit what people think?

• 46:03Speaker 01

  And only listening to your dreams is a superpower forged in adversity, right? And so, and so like, I, I just, you just, so, you know, a lot of people walk around like, I don't care what you think, or whatever. And they're thinking this about whatever. I'm just like, I don't give, I don't give. And like, like, I don't care, that's their problem, right? Like, and, and everybody cares a little bit, right? Yeah, yeah. To the extent that people's thoughts will interfere with my priorities, I care more, right? But in general, on the not giving a shit scale, I'm on the further scale. Because I grew up in a period where, you know, I was born in 69, right? There's, you know, racial attitudes going on, we're just coming out of the 60s, right?

• 46:46Speaker 01

  You know, being, having that, and then just having to deal with that prepares you, you know, for this period. Right. Of like, I'm not afraid to look like a fool. You guys thought I was a fool? You know, you thought I was full at birth, but on skin color. You thought I was inferior at birth on skin color. You thought this about me on, you know, on skin color. So you just don't give a shit. Right? And so my dad and the trainings of being a minority in a city during that time period prepared me for like, who cares? I'm already a fool.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Might as well try.

• 47:20Lewis Howes?

  But some people who maybe have grew up in a lot of the similar adversities or worse or a little bit less adversities, they might take that adversity and say, well, I don't have the skills. I'm never going to be able to do this.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  And they stay stuck in that. They don't say because of this adversity, I don't care and I'm going to go for it. They say because of this adversity, this is who I am.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  I think, I think, you know, I think it's, I think the victim story is marketed to people. And if you don't take that victim story, I think they would have the same experience as me.

• 47:55Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:55Speaker 01

  But I, you know, I don't, I don't want to go too deep in it, but I would just say that it wasn't conscious, right? You just felt it. You know, you just had a pride, right? You're the underdog pride and it came. And I guess some people, they might have, you know, I was lucky. I had a father and a mother, right? Who, you know, two college educated parents, my dad via scholarship and my mom later on in life. And so if anybody was designed to succeed, it was me. But there were, you know, when I was led on my own and it's time for me to do it on my own, or, you know, who moves from New York City to Texas to go,

• 48:36Speaker 01

  you know, like the things, the decisions I made were kind of this like, it can be done. You know, when I, when I had not that much experience, but I knew I can recruit people to build in to do this solar development project in the Nevada desert, right? And then sold it to Capital Dynamics, right? And mean my friends and myself a good chunk of change. And also putting solar on the grid. Like it's just this belief that you could figure it out and you can do it. And so I guess that there are some people who get dealt the clouds of inferiority and it stunts them.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  And I would, I would, I would hope that somebody, somebody somewhere along the line flips it.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  For them, you know, flips it for him and said, this is a badge of honor, man. Like you, you got nothing to lose, right?

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  You got, you got nothing to lose, you got no whatever, nobody expects anything from you. So when you

• 49:34Lewis Howes?

  No pressure.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  No pressure, no pressure.

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  This could be your greatest gift.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  This could be your greatest gift. And so for me, I think it, you know, my greatest gift was like not giving and my willingness to look like a fool.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Like I'm just winging life like everybody else, right? Like I'm winging it, right? And so, uh, and I'm trying to figure things out and I'm, I, I, I wrote this book for me. And then I figured if I, if I can, you know, save my own life, like not waste my own life. Uh, and, and maybe it will be useful to other people.

• 50:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Right, but occasionally I'm, I get somehow stuck on autopilot.

• 50:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  And I need to go back in a book or my wife needs to remind me like, hey, hey, hey, you know? Let's think this through, let's, let's, let's get off autopilot. Let's get off, let's get off autopilot. Like, you know, you're doing these things, your plane's being chest on life. Like, how is this the most fulfilling thing to do for you to be doing in your life right now? It's not, I'm deleting them, okay. You know, things like that, right? There's, there's more things that are deeper than that, but I think that early experience and my dad gave me the confidence. Uh, seeing him do it in much harder circumstances.

• 50:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Much deeper clouds of inferiority. Uh, much more hard knock, like to look at that. And then other people in life, like, I'm like, you know, I, I go places. And I get inspired by people who make it. You know, a lot of people, uh, you know, they, oh, well, they had this help or where they, they look for the thing that was the one piece of help. But they still overcame a lot. I'm like, wow, I'm pretty lazy. Like if that person could do it and look at all the advantages I have, you know? Born in the United States of America, growing economy, growing population. Jobs, technology, I just was born in such a great era. Like I, I'm like, I can ride this wave, I could surf this wave, I can do it.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I'm going to surf this wave of life and, and navigate it the way I want to go. You know, and so I just had this delusional belief and it happened to work out.

• 51:34Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  You've been around a ton of wealthy individuals.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:42Lewis Howes?

  Billionaires, mega billionaires. And you've also been around a lot of broke people who are in a ton of debt or people who've lost all their money. You've seen the both sides of the spectrum. From your perspective at this stage, what would you say are the three keys to really making more money? And also being fulfilled with the money you have?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so three keys to making more money.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  I would have to say that like on the earning part, like, you know, there's a lot of people who speak better to making more money. But I will speak just more in terms of like psychology and belief is this this belief that

• 52:25Speaker 01

  you can and you're entitled. And so when you think you can, you read the book. You read the business book, you read the so and so, you make the attempt, etc. I, you know, a lot of people will just sit in the stands.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Not go up to bat, they won't take the chance. Not only will you take the swing, you'll strike out and you'll do it again and you do it again and you do it again. I was just talking with somebody on Twitter and like, oh yeah, and I break bankrupt. Isn't it great that you're bankrupt? And now you can still go out and earn and take another swing? Lose the ego attachment, get the out there and let's rip it again. You know, and so that's, that's what it is in America, right? Like there's so many people and failure stories and like Steve Jobs got fired, then rehired, you know, like things like that, right? Like, like all these learnings that you get like, wow, you went to school. This is expensive school, but you know, let's go, you've got subject matter expertise. What's the next thing? What's the next dream on your plate? And so when you believe you can, you start to take actions that actually develop your ability to do it.

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  And then, and then so that, that is one. The, the, the, we've already been talking about it. You have to.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  You know, there's a saying like, never tell your dreams to your parents that you want to do it. Because even though they love you, they saw you as a teenager and you didn't take out the garbage. Right? So they're always like, oh, you sure you really want to do that? Is this a safe job? Like, you have such a good thing going on, like, you can just get a job at the post office or whatever. Like, they are afraid for you, right, to go on your adventure. They want to protect you. And they also seen you in your clown years, right? Not the new bad bald Jew, right? And so, and then also, you know,

• 54:09Speaker 01

  as, as much as your, uh, friends and, and, and, and, and maybe some of your peer group may love you or not,

• 54:19Speaker 01

  a lot of people behave out of fear. They don't want to look like an idiot. They had a great idea. They had a thing they want to do and they don't do it. They tried it and it failed, or they don't want to do it again. No, they don't do it. Yeah. So your success exposes their cowardice. Hmm. Right? Say it again? Their, your success exposes their cowardice. Right. So when you go out and you fail, they're like, see, I'm, I'm right not to go do that. See what he did? He went out and failed. Yeah, I told him he shouldn't have done that. That was crazy. Why'd he do that? Right? So they feel comfortable in their safe life and they're cowardice. They, they didn't go live their dreams or take the risk or whatever. But if you go succeed, they're like,

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I'm a coward. Like, I had a chance to do, I could have done this. I could have put in the work. I could have grinded for a year or two years with no award, lived and eat ramen and, and, and, and been successful, right? So I always say, people like success, but they love a failure. Hmm. Right? They love a failure because it

• 55:22Speaker 01

  reaffirms that they're doing the right thing and, and, and you're not cowards. And so... Be very, very careful about your mindset that you're getting from other people.

• 55:33Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Right? And success is not just doing the thing and making it. Success is living a fulfilled life. It is about the ride, you know? A lot of people like say, oh, it's easy for you to say when it has, listen, I've gone boat like busted twice. Like I've been fired, I've been whatever, and it's been, that has been great. That has been great.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  Losing your money, getting fired.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Getting fired, getting embarrassed, humiliated, people talking behind your back, you know what I mean? Oh, he's a clown or he can't do this. Like it's part of it. It's like I learned who my friends were and who weren't. I know who my supporters were and who weren't. I learned about myself. Like, do I care or do I not care? What things really upset me? What mistakes did I, what did I mistakes? Like where did I get lazy? Where did I get off track on vision? You know? Um, it, it, it's about that. It was great. And then, you know, here I am on this side of the coin, but like, still would have been great.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You know, I did, I tried to do some huge project in Central America, went bustle vaporized $10 million. Learned a lot. Gone. Like years, time, meetings, whatever, you know? And, and, and it's gone. I tried to do an importation project in California, learned all about permitting in California, the, the, the interest groups, et cetera. Gone. The ride, you know? And, and it wasn't, it wasn't like now where I have a bunch of money. It was like, that was a very significant.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  All your money.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  It was like, oh, we might have to come back on staff here, Mr. Perkins. Oh, you know, and so, I think it's like, really be careful about how you speak to yourself and the people you keep around you and who you share your dreams with.

• 57:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's interesting. And the third thing?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Oh, man, third thing. Um, the third thing, consistency.

• 57:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Take it seriously. I, I, I hear a lot of people like they'll have an idea and they're about to go into the execution phase. So ideas are like a dime a dozen, right? It, it, there's no market for ideas that I think Paul Graham says, right? You can't just go, I'm gonna sell you this idea. No, you can sell the business, you can sell the execution. So like 90 something percent of it is the execution.

• 57:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  And they go in the execution phase and they don't take it seriously.

• 57:44Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  You know, this is your dream, this is your life. You know, people take video games, um, simple things, you know, party things more seriously and then they'll take their, their dreams, right? And so if your dream is this business or this idea or take some way of making money.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  And it could just be like showing up for work on time, right? Like it doesn't have to be this like, I'm starting this entrepreneurial thing. It'd just be like, I want to be the best person being consistent and taking it seriously.

• 58:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Taking it very seriously.

• 58:18Lewis Howes?

  I think more money comes to you when you show the universe how consistent you are with what you care about.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Use all your resources like as if your life depends on it. And, and the funny thing is, these are the hours of your life. So your life does depend on it. This is your life. This is the time period and some people don't take, you know, I'll see guys come in with pitches or things. I'm like, did you do this? Did you use this resource? Did you whatever? It's not like they couldn't have thought of it. It's not like they couldn't have done it. They just didn't because they didn't take it seriously enough.

• 58:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  You know, so use all your resources at your disposal to drive your fulfillment. If your fulfillment is this job and making money or this idea, use all your resources at your disposal to make it happen and take it seriously. And so I think a lot of people are, are flip it with their own dreams. I don't know why, and I think it, it comes down to the,

• 59:09Speaker 01

  I've done it before too. I've done it in school. It's one of those things where like you have this fear that you can't do well. So you don't try your best. You know what I mean? Like they like, oh, I'm afraid of failing, so I'm just not gonna do my best. And so when I, when I failed, but no, I didn't, I didn't really try that hard. You know what I mean?

• 59:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I wasn't really trying to lift it, you know, like that much. I wasn't really stretched out or whatever. And so you're like, you have this excuse that you didn't try hard. So that's why you failed.

• 59:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And so it makes your ego feel good. And I, I've, I've done that before and I think other people do it too. I don't know if these are the three keys. I don't know what you could take out of that, but

• 59:42Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  I, I, I think it's something that, you know, people can take home with and like, see if that applies to them.

• 59:48Lewis Howes?

  I love this. I'm so excited for people to read this. I've got a few final questions for you, but die with zero. It's a new approach to looking at your life and maximizing your wealth, your health and your time. Getting all you can from your money and your life by Bill Perkins. Make sure you guys get a few copies of this. I think it's got over 3,000 five-star reviews on Amazon. So get a copy there, share it with your friends. I think there's going to be different insights in here that will give you a perspective on your money and your life that you haven't been thinking about. This is some of it we've covered, but there's a lot more in this book. So make sure to check it out. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:00:28Lewis Howes?

  We just asked you three keys to making more money, but this is three truths. I'd like for you to go into your hypothetical future self as your last day on earth. And whether there's technological advances and you live to 200 or it's 100, it's your last day in this world. Your space suit goes into outer space for the rest of time. And you've gotten to experience your life exactly the way you want from this moment until then. You have a excess of memory dividends, the adventures, the love. You wrote it to it till it all fell off.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  I wrote it. I wrote it well. Okay.

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, on this last day, you, everything you've ever created has to go with you. Okay. So this book, this conversation, any creation of content in the future, no one has access to it. Wow. But you get to leave behind three final lessons. And this is your last day. From all the experiences you've had, from the first memory to the last memory dividend, you get to share three final things in this.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Why don't you ask a softball?

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  Make it easy.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Well, you're giving me a softball here. Yeah, go ahead. So anyway.

• 1:01:41Lewis Howes?

  I call this the three truths.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Okay, got you.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  What would be those three truths for you on the final day?

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Wow. Um, no matter what the question, love is the answer. I in, um.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Wow, you're just on the spot here with these three truths.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Always do your best. And I learned that from, um, there's a book called The Four Agreements. It's my number one recommended book.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  But always do your best. And, and your best is different on different days. But if you do your best, you know, whenever I look back and somebody always says, what do you regret? A lot of people say, no regrets. I'm like, anytime I have a regret, it's always related to not doing my best.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  So if I got angry and yelled at somebody, I didn't do my best. I kind of, you're not going to control myself. If I, if I got fired or whatever, I didn't do my best. I could have figured that out, you know, I could have showed up on time or whatever. Right? You know, relationships, you know, that once arrives, like, I really didn't do my best, you know? And so always do your best.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  The, the, the, the, the final last truth, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get technical here on this one. It's gonna be a weird, it's gonna come out of, out of nowhere. It's gonna come out of nowhere. Life is movement. Life is experience. Life is essentially processing information. And the more movement and the more information you process, the more life you will have. Thus, the more fulfillment you can potentially have. So get out there and move.

• 1:03:30Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's beautiful, man. I love this. Again, Die With Zero. I want you guys to get a few copies of the book. You can go to diewithzero book.com. You can go to Amazon, all the different bookstores. You're also on Twitter, BP22, I believe is.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  So your Twitter.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  If you want that, my hot crazy takes, I don't, I don't recommend it, but if you want to interact with me, you can.

• 1:03:51Lewis Howes?

  You got a lot of cool stuff on there.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Lewis Howes?

  On Twitter, Instagram as well, Bill Perkins, although it sounds like your social media will be deleted at some point.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  But while the time being. It's just me raging, enjoying life, you know, exploring the world.

• 1:04:04Lewis Howes?

  Uh, but if people have questions for you, they can go there and connect with you over on social media and message you.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Lewis Howes?

  And definitely read the book first before you have other questions. So get the book, read it. Dive it and have a conversation with a friend of yours about this book.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Lewis Howes?

  And, and just. This isn't to make anyone wrong or make you wrong in your life, but to just question, am I doing things to maximize my memories, my fulfillment, my health, my time, my relationships? Am I doing the things that my future self will be proud of?

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Lewis Howes?

  Me doing right now? And just to ask yourself, and this will give you some of those perspectives.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the, the book is essentially a fulfillment maximizer. That's what I'm max, that's what I'm solving for. Here's these other variables, we can optimize for those, but we're really driving net fulfillment. It's net fulfillment over net worth.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love that, man. Uh, I want to acknowledge you, Bill, before the final question for your journey and where you're at currently. Cause I know you've lived a pretty wild life and you've been around a lot of wild individuals. And you have, it seems to me, gotten to a place where you've found a lot of peace, harmony and fulfillment internally. And I think that's hard for people with a lot of money, even though I think a lot of people think people with a lot of money are fulfilled.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:18Lewis Howes?

  And find peace.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Agree with you.

• 1:05:21Lewis Howes?

  But not all of them are, and you've been around a lot of billionaires who have more stress than when they didn't have money sometimes. Right? Maybe some of them have figured it out, but not all of them. And I'm not saying you have it all figured out, but you're on a journey of peace and harmony, which is beautiful to watch. So I acknowledge you for being on that journey.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, it's, it's work. I'm doing my best. I'm always trying to work on myself, right? I have coaches, I have influencers, I read books and I'm here to make mistakes, you know? And just realize that, you know, you have to forgive yourself. You're human.

• 1:05:50Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. Yes. What's your contract, by the way? Do you remember?

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  I'm a loving, forgiving, uh, caring man.

• 1:05:57Lewis Howes?

  Yes, you are. I love that.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Oh, man, you pulled out my contract.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  Out of nowhere. Do you remember? I know, I know loving, forgiving, caring man.

• 1:06:08Lewis Howes?

  That's good, that's good, man.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:06:10Lewis Howes?

  For those, for those at the underground who know what the contract is, uh, fours D guys. Um, the final, final question for you.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:18Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, wow, wow. I've known, um,

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  this is, this is a, you ask the softballs, don't you? Uh, so, so I, you know, I've, I've looked at what you, you have in your, in your book and it's like your special mission, right? And your time, and I would kind of agree with that. Um, I, I think it's a greatness is.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  A life lived in integrity with yourself, with your values. Right? When I see something great, and it's like, you know, they may not have much whatever, but it was a life lived in integrity with their values and their pursuits and their dreams. And so if, if, when I'm being great, I'm in integrity. All my, you know, my priorities in balance, I'm not skimming, I'm doing my best. I'm in integrity. When I'm out of integrity, I'm not so great. I'm just not so great.

• 1:07:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I'm just not, I'm just that guy. I'm like, oh, breakdown, I've had a breakdown. So, and so, you know, and we see that manifest that in, in different people, people, uh, you know, they're about forgiveness, you know? I think about, uh, Nelson Mandela, living in a prison for most of his life and coming out like, how's this guy so happy and forgiving, you know? Somebody who believes in a cause and like, I, I'm, I'm, this is a cause I fight for, you know? Women who, who didn't get recognition in, in, in earlier times, but believed in what they were doing and diligently lived through it. They believed in the cause or whatever they were working on, whether it be physics or women's rights or whatever.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  You know, a life and integrity.

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

• 1:08:44Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.