Sean Davis: Trump Shooting Update, & the Real Reason Congress Refuses to Investigate

It’s been six months since the Butler assassination attempt and we still know nothing about the man who shot Donald Trump, much less why he was allowed to do it. That should make you nervous. Sean Davis explains. (00:00) The Three Big Questions of the Trump Assassination Attempt (06:39) The FBI Is Out of Control (09:06) An Update About the Trump Shooter (29:15) The Mass Incompetence of the Secret Service Counter-Snipers (41:40) Who Really Shot the Trump Shooter? (58:11) Strategic Incompetence Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN: Get 3 months free at https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker Heritage Foundation: https://Heritage.org/Tucker Jase Medical: Promo code “Tucker” for extra discount at https://Jasemedical.com Silencer Central: Promo code Tucker10 for 10% off your purchase of banish suppressors at https://www.silencercentral.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 0:04Speaker 02

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 0:08Speaker 02

  Make them remember you.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 0:15Tucker Carlson?

  So, almost exactly five months ago, um, the Republican presidential candidate is shot in a face, in the face on camera. Um, the man who apparently did it is killed. Uh, the world stops. History changes, but the one thing that doesn't happen is any accounting of what that was. Who was this guy? How did this happen? Um, and even now, on the cusp of Trump's inauguration, it's disappeared. I don't, I haven't heard anybody ask those questions. I've heard some dark mutterings. Um, and so you're one of the people I, I think was on the story at the very beginning, in a rational but insistent way. And so I thought it'd be worth asking, like, what was that?

• 0:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm not sure I've ever seen an incident of that magnitude disappear from the news so quickly.

• 1:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:05Speaker 04

  We got, what, maybe a week of like true kind of flood the zone coverage?

• 1:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  And then it was gone.

• 1:10Tucker Carlson?

  Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers, here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  That's, that to me is the weirdest thing about it.

• 1:41Tucker Carlson?

  But it was a shooting. It was an assassination attempt.

• 1:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44Tucker Carlson?

  And it raised like the most pressing possible questions about a lot of different things. And, you know, I understand the news media didn't want to give Trump any advantage, didn't want to run the picture of him triumphant. I get it. But you would think that every elected official, every American would want to know, how did, how was this allowed to happen? It was allowed to happen, but by whom and why and how? And I don't hear anybody, including Republicans, asking those questions. So like, what is this?

• 2:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I kind of look at it as three big questions. Who was the shooter?

• 2:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Everything that kind of puts him together. How did they let it happen? That whole process? And then what happened to everyone who let it happen? And then within that, like the framework I have, trying to figure out, you know, what exactly happened is you can look at it as like option one, just a total snafu across the board. Everyone failed, accidents happen, guy manages to get up there. It's exactly what it looks like. So that's option one. And then you've got option two, which is kind of what I would call strategic incompetence. So you have DHS, which runs Secret Service. And the Secret Service is a soup sandwich

• 2:55Speaker 04

  from top to bottom. Like, it's a disaster. Culturally, everything about it. Did you have people who were making that even more difficult, who were deliberately making Trump vulnerable on the off chance that maybe someone would go solve their problems for them? So that's my number two. My number three kind of scenario is it encompasses all of number two, but you kind of have two different hands of government. You've got the Secret Service hand, just totally incompetent, making him completely vulnerable. But unbeknownst to that hand, you have this other hand, like I would call it like the Russiagate hoax hand, these people who are just always doing awful evil things.

• 3:39Tucker Carlson?

  The John Brennan hand.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  Yeah. Was there somebody there looking for super disturbed, impressionable young men to kind of poke with the stick? Like, you know, Trump, Trumpson Butler, you should go check that out. So you have the incompetent hand and then the DBS hand. So that to me is option three. And they weren't working with each other, but they were creating the conditions to allow that what happened to happen. And then I think the fourth one is the government just killed him. It's like those are, I kind of look at everything through those lenses and try to figure out, can we disprove this one? What fits here? And like where I am now, like kind of between two and three.

• 4:23Speaker 04

  I refuse to believe this was just a series of unfortunate accidents and incompetence that's put together. It's just not. I just don't believe it because I've been alive for the last, you know, 10 years, watching everything they do. And yet it's saying to him, I don't think there's evidence for like the JFK style. Like we all know Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it, right? It's absurd. So I don't think there's any evidence, or at least I've not seen any to suggest that was replicated here. So I think it's somewhere in between deliberate incompetence to make him vulnerable. And then you had some cell somewhere finding someone to urge to go do it in ways that would make it very hard to trace.

• 5:03Tucker Carlson?

  So, thank you for starting with your conclusion. Let's work backward and go through by number, the three questions that you raised at the outset. Who was Crooks, Thomas Crooks, the shooter?

• 5:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, we still don't know. Like it's wild. This kid comes out of nowhere, manages to get on the roof, shoots President Trump, fires eight shots before anyone, even like remotely tries to bother him. He was able to fly a drone there for like 10 or 20 minutes. Did recon multiple times throughout the day, had an operative, operable IEDs in his car, had a bomb in his house. And we still know basically nothing about him. It's crazy. So America First Legal, they sued to get his academic records. And turns out he was a really good student, really good student.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  I think he got his entire time in high school and college, like maybe two Cs. I think one was in Spanish and one was in differential equations. And the rest were mostly As and some Bs here and there. So he was like a smart, smart kid.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  One of the congressional committees did a investigation looking into it. And parents really didn't know much about their own son. Like, I think either the mom or the dad at the point asked, are you gay? Like, you're not dating anyone? What's going on? Like, they don't even know kind of what's going on there. We know the FBI has, like, his phone, his devices, his computer. They know who he was talking to. They know where he went. They know where he bought stuff. They know what he searched for. And we don't know anything about that. So in, there's a Senate report from Homeland Security Committee that tried to dig into it. And there are two congressional committees in the House and the Senate that actually

• 6:58Speaker 04

  did a really good job, given all the constraints they have, figuring stuff out. So they asked the FBI, you know, all these questions, because the FBI took the lead on it. Give us all this information. At the time the Senate put out their initial report, the FBI had given them 27 pages. Total.

• 7:17Tucker Carlson?

  How? I mean, it's Congress, they could shut the FBI down. Like, what, what, I don't understand what is going on.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you had the other-

• 7:26Tucker Carlson?

  On what grounds could, would they not turn that over? Do you know?

• 7:28Speaker 04

  They, it's this weird thing that happens. They actually don't have any legal basis to do it. They'll say things like, well, ongoing investigation. That's totally made up. Even when there is an ongoing investigation and not when your suspect is dead. So like, clearly no one's going to be criminally tried for that, because he's dead. Even that's totally made up. There's nothing in the Constitution that says this agency that Congress created and is funded by Congress can just not give them stuff because reasons. It's totally made up. So I think a big reason is, most people in Congress are totally weak. Like, they're cowards.

• 8:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that's for sure.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  They don't want to get crosswise with the FBI. It would take a lot of work. So they just kind of like, huh, okay, I guess we won't get it.

• 8:12Tucker Carlson?

  Ongoing investigation.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. The House Committee, for example, they also did a great job. They said that the FBI interviewed over 1,000 people.

• 8:21Speaker 04

  In the course of their investigation and they produced over a thousand, they're called FD 302s, which is how the FBI, it's actually crazy what they're allowed to do.

• 8:31Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  They don't have to have a transcript or anything when they interview you. They just have a piece of paper that's their recollection of what you said. And then that becomes gospel.

• 8:39Tucker Carlson?

  Record it. No.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  No, that's actually how James Comey got Martha Stewart thrown in prison.

• 8:43Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, it's so dirty, but so they have a thousand interviews, over a thousand documents. They gave the house 81.

• 8:54Speaker 04

  So it's just mind blowing. So we, we don't know like anything about this Crooks guy beyond, I think, like maybe a 15 minute press conference that one of the FBI, I think might've been the FBI guy out of Pittsburgh who runs that office. Like 15 minutes of him talking in very vague, like 50,000 foot terms about what they knew. Oh, he searched for Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Do you remember that?

• 9:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  How, how that came out and that was meant to make it look like, oh, the guy didn't really have any political motives.

• 9:29Tucker Carlson?

  Did he? I mean, what were his motives?

• 9:31Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, the base motive was he wanted to kill Donald Trump.

• 9:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Which, which everyone kind of got lost over. They, you'd have the talking heads being like, what was his motive? Well, I think he wanted to shoot Trump in the face.

• 9:44Speaker 04

  Spitballing here. But so you have the FBI is like, well, he searched for Trump and, and Biden. So clearly he didn't have any political views. I'm like, well, well, how many times did he search for? What was he searching? That's like kind of a, it's kind of an important thing. Well, he searched for the DNC and the RNC. Okay, great. That's utterly worthless information that I can do nothing with. And they're like, and that's it.

• 10:11Tucker Carlson?

  So we, I mean,

• 10:12Speaker 04

  We literally don't know.

• 10:14Tucker Carlson?

  We know nothing about this kid.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  No, we don't know who he was talking, like here are the things I would want to know. All the places he went in like the six months leading up to this, not just the week. I want to know every place he went. I want to know every person he talked to in person. I know every person he had a phone conversation with, texted with, telegrammed with, signaled with. I want to know everything he looked for on Google Maps. I want his whole internet search history and I like, want to go through it in real time. And like, just find out what was happening. I assume the FBI has done that. I know they have the capability to do it. Why, why, like, why has Congress not been told anything about it? And why we not?

• 10:56Speaker 04

  It's just, and so that kind of stuff is why it's impossible for me to look at everything and be like, "Well, it was just a series of unfortunate accidents."

• 11:05Tucker Carlson?

  But, I mean, the, the core question in any crime is like, why was it committed? And, I mean, we're not, it sounds like there's no progress whatsoever.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  None.

• 11:15Tucker Carlson?

  None.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  None.

• 11:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that itself is like, just tells you that the country's in freefall, that it's just so corrupt, it can't even carry out the basic functions of government.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 11:24Tucker Carlson?

  Trying to figure out why murderers murder.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Right. But, but like, like, who is he talking to? Was he just alone in his own silo doing all this? Did he do everything on the internet? I don't believe it, because at one point, they told us, "Oh, he had encrypted text messages, some of which were overseas." And they just let that flow down there and then never talked about it again.

• 11:46Tucker Carlson?

  Is there any evidence he was in touch with any specific person or group overseas?

• 11:51Speaker 04

  Uh, none that I've seen.

• 11:52Tucker Carlson?

  None, none. So we just, we just, we noted tales about anything?

• 11:54Speaker 04

  It's a total black box. Yeah.

• 11:57Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  So Heritage Foundation, at one point, one of their guys over there, it's great investigator, Mike Howell, um, I don't know how he did it, um, was able to get, um, like, location data on devices that had been in or near Thomas Crooks's home.

• 12:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  In, in the weeks or months leading up to it, um, and then where those had been. So I think this came out like, maybe a week after.

• 12:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 12:23Speaker 04

  There, there was one that had pinged around the FBI.

• 12:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  Now, that could be a-

• 12:26Tucker Carlson?

  The FBI building in Washington.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  In Washington. Now, that could be a ton of different things, because everything's around the FBI.

• 12:31Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  That's, I, but I'd like to know more about that. But we haven't been told anything.

• 12:37Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, he had IEDs. He sent up a drone. So in order, what were the IEDs? Do we have any idea?

• 12:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, so he had two IEDs in his car that they found afterwards. They were wired. They had detonators in them. They had primers. They were connected to remote sensors that he had a remote control for on the roof to set off. Now, what's super weird about it is in the car, the remote transmitters there were off. So even if he had that remote transmitter in his hand, he couldn't have set him off. So that to me is weird. You go through all this trouble. You're gonna try and kill the president. You've got all these bombs in your car. But then you don't, I mean, they're technically armed, but there was nothing that he could do to set them off?

• 13:30Speaker 04

  That's weird.

• 13:31Tucker Carlson?

  It is weird.

• 13:32Speaker 04

  It doesn't make any sense to me.

• 13:33Tucker Carlson?

  And he, but I should have asked this earlier. No statement of any kind, no manifesto?

• 13:37Speaker 04

  None.

• 13:38Tucker Carlson?

  No description of his own beliefs about anything?

• 13:40Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 13:41Tucker Carlson?

  Of any kind?

• 13:41Speaker 04

  None. He liked shooting, like he seemed to go to a shooting range every now and again.

• 13:47Tucker Carlson?

  Clearly, he liked shooting. And I, you know, right after the shooting, there were all these, you know, usual, I was a door kicker of some special operations people on TV saying, that's an easy shot, 130 yards. That's just not true. That's just, that's a lot. I mean, I shoot a lot. He, Crooks turned a cop, a local cop, came up a ladder behind him. He, Crooks pointed, and tell me, correct me if I'm wrong.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  You're right.

• 14:11Tucker Carlson?

  Backed the cop down and then immediately assumed the prone position, got off eight shots. At, and I think it was, was 130 yards?

• 14:18Speaker 04

  I think it was probably 150, but like, whatever, that's plus or minus.

• 14:21Tucker Carlson?

  Pretty far.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:22Tucker Carlson?

  And, um, and got as close as the president's ear. So, under extreme stress, as a 20-year-old with no military training, I mean, luck does play a role in everything, including shooting, but I'm sorry, I have 100-yard rifle range. I know what that is. That's like, pretty good.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's helpful to know what he had. So, he had, I think it was a DPMS AR-15, like, pretty vanilla, off the shelf. I had wondered for a long time what his optic was. Was he using iron sights? Because to me, that makes all the difference.

• 14:55Tucker Carlson?

  It does.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  For like, a layman, between hard and easy. You take some, like, pipe hitter who's been doing it for 20 years, whatever, he can do what he can do. He only had a red dot on it. So, he had a hollow sun red dot with a 2 MOA red dot, no magnification. I like to think I'm a pretty good shooter. I shoot a lot. I think that's a tricky shot.

• 15:16Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree, especially under stress.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:19Tucker Carlson?

  And... Which is always the key. It's like, anyone can sit on a Sunday afternoon with your kids and like, you know...

• 15:23Speaker 04

  On the bench with like...

• 15:25Tucker Carlson?

  Completely. But there's a cop behind you with a gun, and you lie down and get off eight shots, and one of them is just spot on?

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Well, and, he only missed because Trump turned his head.

• 15:35Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  Like, when you know the angle, like, he started out with a target like this, that became this. Like...

• 15:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  And so, he went, you know, from probably a 4 to 6-inch target to like, a 1-inch target, just based on where he was aiming. My friends are gonna make fun of me for saying like, "That's a hard shot." I think that's a tricky shot. No magnification, under duress, on a hot roof.

• 15:59Tucker Carlson?

  It is a tricky shot. I don't care, all these people like, "I do that," you know? Okay, show me.

• 16:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you have like, a, you know, 18X magnifier on it, you're shooting at paper, and you're on a bench, and you've got a nice little platform set up, that's an easy shot.

• 16:12Tucker Carlson?

  And there's no armed police officer behind you, coming up to shoot you. So yeah, no, I mean, but again, you know, luck does play a role in life for sure. In life as backgammon, you know, luck is luck is a component, but um, okay. So he brings these explosives inside what should be a perimeter. He puts up-

• 16:30Speaker 04

  It was outside the perimeter, so it was in his car.

• 16:33Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Um, so I don't think that was within like the security perimeter.

• 16:37Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  Just wherever he parked his car, but he's got bombs in it. He's got operational bombs in his car.

• 16:41Tucker Carlson?

  And he puts a drone up. What do we know about that?

• 16:44Speaker 04

  So we know that we, he showed up around the park, I think around one o'clock. So that the event was starting six-ish, so they probably opened the doors at four, let people in. He was there beforehand, just kind of walking around, looking at things, casing it. Comes back at, I think, three forty-five-ish, three fifty-one, and flies a drone for like twenty minutes. Flies it all around, looks at everything, gets a bird's eye view. They were able to recreate the path that he had, um, when they got the drone and the controller. Um, but there were no pictures from that flight. So he's looking at it on his controller, flying it and seeing what it sees. But when they go to the device, there's no images on it.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  They can recreate the flight path, but that's it. So he does that for like twenty minutes. And what's interesting is the whole day, so the Secret Service didn't send their own drones. But they sent some guy who'd gotten trains like a month or two previous, not on drone mitigation, but on drone detection. So he brings his little stuff in where he can go and detect a drone. They can use it to figure out where the controller is and where a person is. Doesn't work all day. He spends like hours on the phone with an eight hundred number doing tech support.

• 17:59Tucker Carlson?

  No, come on.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  A hundred percent, doing tech support. Turns out he had a bad ethernet cord. You can't, you can't make that up. He had a bad ethernet cord, so he finally gets his working at like four fifteen.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  Literally minutes after Crooks had been done doing his recon with his drone.

• 18:20Tucker Carlson?

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• 20:44Speaker 06

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• 21:26Speaker 06

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• 21:50Tucker Carlson?

  Is it true? And by the way, did the drone fly over the podium and the place where Trump was?

• 21:57Speaker 04

  I don't know. In the, in the reports that are available, they say that they recreated the flight path and it went all around the area. Whether it went right over that podium, I don't, I don't, I would assume so. You have 20 minutes. It wasn't a big area.

• 22:11Tucker Carlson?

  He gets somehow a rangefinder onto the site through a Secret Service screen?

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Uh, no, I don't think he, I don't think he took it through the magnetometer. So one of the problems was you have this area that really isn't that big. It's a farm show. So you've got, you know, a horse ring for people doing stuff with livestock. You've got a big field. You've got grandstands here and there. You've got a bunch of barns, but it's not a big area. And you would think they would have made the whole thing, the security perimeter, like a full circle all the way around. You're not getting in without getting checked for anything. But they ended up carving out this area, which was the American Glass Research, the AGR building, the sprawling, call it like a five building complex. And it was from one of those roofs that he shot Trump from.

• 23:00Speaker 04

  And they decided, you know, we're going to put that outside of our security perimeter. So you can get to that area without having been screened or anything. No magnetometers, no pat downs. And that's like 130, 150 yards from the president.

• 23:17Speaker 04

  I think he may have been around that area with the rangefinder. He may have gotten in, but they, they asked one of the secret service agents. He's like, well, a rangefinder is not a prohibited item. It's suspicious. It makes you wonder.

• 23:31Tucker Carlson?

  Why would you have a rangefinder?

• 23:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's not golfing. Okay, he's not like trying to figure out, can I use the nine iron or like my pitching wedge?

• 23:40Speaker 04

  Like you, you know, why someone has a rangefinder?

• 23:42Tucker Carlson?

  Just for shooting.

• 23:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, and by the way, there's a, there's a difference between golf rangefinders and ballistic rangefinders.

• 23:49Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Big difference.

• 23:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 04

  Like you get a nice ballistic rangefinder and it'll like, it'll tell you not just like your horizontal distance. It'll give you your actual shooting distance, compensating for your angle of view and all that. Like that's not like, oh, it's 100, it's 108 yards.

• 24:05Tucker Carlson?

  Plus his camo.

• 24:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 24:08Tucker Carlson?

  Looks like.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  So they, they see that and the local cops flag him as suspicious. So the local cops start kind of getting on their radios and saying, hey, there's a dude with a rangefinder. Like everyone be on the lookout for it. Secret Service doesn't really hear this because all the counter snipers, their, their lead counter sniper, who is the most junior person on the team, which I find fascinating. The counter snipers hadn't been used, I think, on a non-presidential event in ever. This was the first one. They put, of the four people they send, the most junior guy is the team leader. He doesn't even bother to go pick up his radio. It would have given him comms with all of the local police.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  That's mind blowing to me.

• 24:55Tucker Carlson?

  It is mind blowing.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  I was talking to a former Army Ranger sniper friend of mine. Was a sniper in combat, was a team leader. And before I even started telling him kind of the stuff I had learned and stuff I knew. He said, well, I mean, a radio is a sniper's most powerful weapon. It's not the gun. Like, that's actually not the sniper's job. That's like one of seven things a sniper does. Like, the most important thing they do is they observe and they record and they communicate. And so, this guy, who's leading all of the counter-snipers, who are there, by the way, because there had been a specific, long-range threat against Trump from a foreign actor that they knew about. That's why they were there. Uh... The guy doesn't even bother to get his radio.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  And so, when Trump is onstage, when you've got all the local cops, like, setting their hair on fire, trying to get this guy, who, um, they know has a rangefinder, he's acting super weird, um... At one point, you have local law enforcement starting to draw their weapons? That's something you would think, like, maybe the Secret Service people onstage, or the guys on roofs, would want to know about. They had no idea.

• 26:08Tucker Carlson?

  Wouldn't, I mean, the first priority would be to establish communication between all law enforcement agencies on-site, right? I mean, that just seems, like, obvious.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  They, so, and they didn't even have a unified command post. They had the Secret Service in one little area, and then they had the local guys over here, and then they had, I think, one or two people who were local in the Secret Service command post, but they didn't actually have a unified command post, which is also bonkers.

• 26:33Tucker Carlson?

  Um, can I ask how crooks knew that this one cluster of buildings was the one place in the whole area that was outside the security perimeter? How would you know that?

• 26:46Speaker 04

  So let's define terms here. So, security perimeter is where you can get in where you don't have to get a pat down or through a magnetometer. So that's just like superficially obvious. I can walk all the way over there and I don't have to go through a magnetometer. And then you've got the security bubble, which is like the area that people are responsible for, which is going to be a much broader, bigger area than just your security perimeter. He knew because he'd been walking around there for five hours, totally unmolested. He got a drone up, he had a rangefinder, he cased the place. He knew it just by having walked around and like, oh, there's no cops over there. I'm gonna go over there.

• 27:31Tucker Carlson?

  It's apps, it's... Do we ever find out why those buildings were not under surveillance? Just because it was such an obvious shooting platform?

• 27:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, so this, this is what I find the most enraging. The, this counter sniper team lead, been deposed in a bunch of, by a bunch of different committees, he gives different answers in all of them. Like, if you want, you know, failure, failure has a lot of people to blame. And so I don't think you can blame it on one person. I think you can blame it on one organization, which is the Secret Service. Utterly incompetent from top to bottom. It's a totally rotten culture with no accountability, nothing. So, and within that, you had a bunch of people who failed. But the last link of failure, which is what allowed the guy to get a shot off, was from, was due to this counter sniper team lead.

• 28:26Speaker 04

  He shows up, I think, four days ahead of time to do his advance. So I think this would have been the Wednesday, which would have been July 10th. Trump shot on a Saturday, July 13th. He has four days on site, puts together his plan, kind of sketches out where he wants everyone. He never set foot on or in that building. Never.

• 28:50Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 28:52Speaker 04

  This will blow your mind. He's testifying to one congressional committee. And they're like, well, they ask him that question. So you never set foot over there? Like even the day of, you got time to do a final walkthrough? And he says, no, well, you see, because I had to go do a bunch of paperwork. And I want to make sure my paperwork was good and like, wasn't fuzzy and stuff. Quote, "You live and die by paperwork."

• 29:16Tucker Carlson?

  I thought you lived and died by bullets.

• 29:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. No, you live and die by paperwork. He was so focused on his paperwork that he never went and actually looked around. The other thing that's crazy.

• 29:27Tucker Carlson?

  Do you know anything about this guy, by the way?

• 29:30Speaker 04

  I know a little bit, don't know his name.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  He had been with the Secret Service, I think for six years. No prior military experience. No prior sharpshooter sniper experience. He showed up, worked for two years because you have to work like a desk or trailing someone for two years before you can be a counter sniper. And then he had been a counter sniper for the rest of his time there. Now, I personally find that kind of crazy.

• 29:59Speaker 04

  I would think if you want someone whose job is to think what a sniper thinks like, and be able to have countermeasures and protect against that, you'd probably want a guy who had done that job before.

• 30:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Like, if you're going to have somebody teaching your basketball team how to do defense, you'd like to know that they've made a basket before.

• 30:18Tucker Carlson?

  Of course. Yes.

• 30:19Speaker 04

  But that's not what happened here. So you had a guy who, no prior military experience, no prior sniper experience. He actually wasn't a sniper. He was a sharpshooter. He could shoot, I'm sure he could shoot well from long range. But that like, that doesn't make you a sniper. You have to know, you have to know so much. There's recon, there's observing, there's getting into position, there's communicating, there's recording. Those are all the things that people who go into sniper school in the military spend weeks and weeks doing before they ever touch a gun. And they'll talk about like the you can kind of teach anyone to shoot a gun.

• 30:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  That's the easy part. It's mechanical. It's learning all the other stuff. It's like the real value in the job. So this guy never had that. Just ta-da. He's a counter sniper now. So he's setting up his perimeter. He had no idea when he set the people up where he wanted them for the event. So you've got Trump on stage. You've got three barns behind him. To his, to Trump's three o'clock, which is directly north, you've got that AGR building where the shooter was. The sniper team set up directly behind Trump on two of the three barns behind him. So the ones that we've all seen in that shot were like you got one guy on the tripod who pops up and looks around.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  And then you've got the other guy who's prone. They never saw the shooter because there's a gigantic tree in their way. From where they were, line of sight to where the building was were crook shot, gigantic tree, blocking like a third of the building. They never saw him.

• 31:56Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  So then you have the team leader and his partner, and his partner's the one who shot crooks. They're on the southern barn. And so one's on one side, one's on the other. The counter sniper team leader, he never saw the shooter. Shooter was dead before he ever saw him.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  So you've got one guy basically in that whole area who has visibility on that roof. And you would think, oh, well, he must have been scanning that area regularly. Well, they, Congress deposed this guy and he says, no, that actually wasn't my area that I was supposed to be scanning. So if you think of a clock, you know, 12, 12 o'clock, three o'clock, six o'clock, nine, Trump's in the center where he's looking is 12 o'clock. The position from which he was shot would be three o'clock. The guy who actually shot him, he was actually watching from six o'clock to 12 o'clock. So east, south and west of Trump.

• 32:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  He was never looking over there. It wasn't until he heard shots that he turned over there. So of all the people who were tasked with doing counter sniper surveillance and mitigation, only one person ever actually saw the shooter, even though he'd been on the roof for six minutes.

• 33:08Tucker Carlson?

  So it sounds like there was a blind spot, an entire quadrant that they weren't even looking at.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 33:16Tucker Carlson?

  How can that be?

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Incompetence. That's incompetence, laziness and arrogance. And afterwards, the Secret Service, you might recall, tried to blame the local cops.

• 33:25Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  They were supposed to do it. We had them in the building. They never told the cops, number one, that their job was to be scoping out that roof. All of the cops from the local police forces who were there to provide sniper coverage, first off, they were never told that they were counter snipers. They were told they were overwatch. So they set up in an area in the building where they had a great shot of the crowd, pretty much the entire crowd. And they're watching it the whole time. They had no idea that they were supposed to be looking at a building roof, which is 180 degrees to their left. And because of how the window opened, it was like one of those, I think they call them casement windows. They've got the crank.

• 34:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  So you've got to crank it and then it slowly opens.

• 34:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  It's not a double sash that opens top and bottom. I don't think they could have seen that if they had wanted to. Just because of how that window opened, they'd have to get around, like almost leaning out the window to see, which of course they're not going to be doing because they think their job is crowd overwatch. So those guys somehow get blamed in media reports by people who are obviously Secret Service sources. Well, we put them in that building. That was their responsibility. And all of them were like, no, that was never our responsibility. We had no idea.

• 34:40Tucker Carlson?

  Also, they're local cops. It's not their job to protect the candidate or the president.

• 34:44Speaker 04

  Right, right. Yeah, just because you, Secret Service, have chosen to delegate, you know, one of your responsibilities, it doesn't stop being your responsibility.

• 34:52Tucker Carlson?

  It's a chorus, but that is your whole responsibility.

• 34:54Speaker 04

  It's yours. You have, like, you have literally one job. You don't let the president get shot in the face.

• 34:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  And so they're questioning this guy, this counter sniper team lead, and they're trying to get him to admit that things were done wrong. And so they're asking him, so like, would you consider what happened a failure? He goes, possibly.

• 35:18Tucker Carlson?

  The candidate shot in the face and that's a possible

• 35:20Speaker 04

  Possibly. And what's weird is I

• 35:22Tucker Carlson?

  Does this guy still work for the

• 35:24Speaker 04

  He still works for the Secret Service. He was put on admin leave for like a week. And it was more like a mental health therapy leave. Yeah, something traumatic happened.

• 35:33Tucker Carlson?

  Like Michael Byrd, you murder someone and you're the victim?

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Exactly. And then he's like right back working full time for the Secret Service.

• 35:42Tucker Carlson?

  Now?

• 35:42Speaker 04

  Now. As far as we know.

• 35:44Tucker Carlson?

  Was anybody from Secret Service fired?

• 35:47Speaker 04

  No, not that we know of. So you had Kim Cheadle, who is the head of Secret Service. He's a total idiot.

• 35:52Tucker Carlson?

  I thought she was a hero. She's a woman.

• 35:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, obviously. She's strong and brave.

• 35:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 04

  So she retires. Then you had her deputy, who was like the guy who was actually in charge of the day to day. He gets elevated, doesn't get fired. Those are the first two people I fire. Instantly. Like I find the leadership channel, like the leadership chain, and I find everyone in it, like you're all gone. Not personal. You might be great people, but Secret Service calls itself a zero fail agency. You clearly failed.

• 36:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 36:29Speaker 04

  And to my knowledge, nobody's been fired.

• 36:32Tucker Carlson?

  The problem is that these are the bodyguards. And so, you know, in the Ottoman court, everyone was afraid of the bodyguards, right?

• 36:44Speaker 04

  That's who runs your coup.

• 36:45Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly. We're getting to like the most basic facts of life, which is the armed people are in charge. And so, you know, you hate to think that's the rule in America, but do you think it's possible that people were afraid to mess with the Secret Service? Because no one wants to mess with the bodyguards?

• 37:01Speaker 04

  Well, I assume that's why we've never gotten the truth on the JFK shooting. Like I just kind of assume Secret Service was involved somehow. And that's why presidents have been cowed into not releasing it.

• 37:14Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. It wouldn't shock me.

• 37:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:17Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, that's like the most, you know, that's the most basic interest of anybody is not to get shot to death, if you think.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 37:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And that, you know, I'm speculating to some extent, but you do wonder, I always wondered and I asked, like, if you're the Trump campaign, why don't you make a, I mean, I, I think, or I know that Trump thinks he doesn't want to whine about being shot because you seem weak when you want, they tried to shoot me, you know, he, he downplayed it on purpose. And I think that was a, it was a manly thing to do, was impressive thing to do. There's dignity in that. I admire it. However, like, it is kind of important to find out what happened. And I always suspected that maybe, you know, they felt a little bit threatened because they've got a campaign, they've got months more of campaigning to do. They want to do outdoor venues. Trump loves outdoor venues. He's brave. He's obviously

• 38:10Tucker Carlson?

  physically brave. We know that. On the other hand, do you really want to piss off your bodyguards? I mean, do you think that is part of the dynamic here?

• 38:19Speaker 04

  I mean, how could it not be?

• 38:20Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's

• 38:21Speaker 04

  If you're a human.

• 38:22Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 38:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, you had the people on the stage, they didn't know anything was going on until Trump had been shot. Like, you would think the people on the stage who are like the literal, personal protective detail, the ones who physically form-

• 38:35Tucker Carlson?

  All the fat girls on the stage.

• 38:37Speaker 04

  No, there was, I think there was one.

• 38:39Tucker Carlson?

  One, okay.

• 38:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, but there were, there were several men on there. Those guys are the ones who like physically have to go in, and I think they call it a body bunker they put around the president.

• 38:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 38:50Speaker 04

  They had no idea anything was going on or there was anything, any trouble anywhere, until they hear shots fired. And they interviewed the guy who came, so if you're watching Trump and you see the Secret Service agents come in, the guy on the left gets in first. So I think the House Butler Task Force interviewed him. And they said, okay, take us through what was going on in your head in that moment. He's like, well, yeah, we, we heard some scuttlebutt that local police were looking at something at three o'clock, like to, to Trump's right. That was it. He said, and then I heard like a pop.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  Like, uh, and he said, my, my immediate thought was it sounded like one of those poppet firecrackers you throw on the ground.

• 39:34Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. It always does.

• 39:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. And he said, so that's, that's what I thought it was. So I thought it was a heckler in the crowd. There must've been like a heckler who got the poppets in the crowd. And then I hear the second shot and I'm waiting to hear in my ear heckler. And he said, and then I heard the third and that's when I knew, I, and by the way, he's hearing nothing in his ears at this point, getting no communication. So that's the point at which I go and jump on the president. We hear him kinda going over us. Yeah.

• 40:04Tucker Carlson?

  I was in a restaurant the other night, in fact, this weekend, and I had a little trouble hearing what people were saying. And I thought to myself, I'm a little young to go deaf. Why? Well, because I grew up shooting, bird hunting, target shooting. And I remember my father saying, just stick a Marlboro filter in your opposite ear and you'll be fine. I wish we'd had suppressors, but we didn't. You can now. Check out Silencer Central. Silencers play a crucial role in improving accuracy, maximizing your experience and protecting your hearing. They're not dangerous or scary. It's just the opposite. Not using them can be dangerous. Have dinner with me in a restaurant and you'll know what I mean.

• 40:49Tucker Carlson?

  Silencer Central can fix your problems immediately. They will find the perfect silencer for you and make it very easy to buy one. It's not the hassle you thought it was. I know, cause I just went through it. So you get approved and then Silencer Central ships your order straight to your door. No hassle whatsoever. It is easy. It doesn't get any better, in fact. So if you thought it was impossible to shoot suppressed, you were wrong. Go to silencercentral.com right now, start browsing, use the code TUCKER10 for 10% off your first purchase of banish suppressors. Highly recommended.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Film for IMAX.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Make them remember you.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 41:43Speaker 07

  It's me, the

• 41:46Speaker 07

  We don't need the jingle twice. Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 41:58Speaker 07

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 42:04Speaker 07

  Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop. Touche.

• 42:11Speaker 07

  Priceline.

• 42:26Tucker Carlson?

  So of the eight shots, like where did they go, those eight shots?

• 42:29Speaker 04

  I think they were only able to find actual bullet fragments from two. So there were actually there were 10 shots fired total. There were eight from Crooks. There was one from a local law enforcement officer who shot almost simultaneously with Crooks's eighth shot. So you have one, two, three, had a burst of three. Then you had a burst of five. And then the five like all went high. One of them hit a hydraulic line on one of those like telehandlers or lulls or cranes behind it. So it starts spewing hydraulic fluid everywhere and you see it drop all of a sudden after the hydraulic line gets punctured. If you watch the video again.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  So I think that was from that second group. So it was three and then five. As Crooks fired his eighth shot, a local officer fires his gun at Crooks. He swears he got him.

• 43:27Speaker 04

  There's no like forensic medical evidence that he did. But there's no firing from Crooks after that point, after that eighth shot. And then 15 seconds later comes the shot that kills Crooks.

• 43:40Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 43:41Speaker 04

  15 seconds. And the reason that happened was because nobody had eyes on the roof. So you had your sniper

• 43:48Tucker Carlson?

  15 seconds?

• 43:50Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 43:51Tucker Carlson?

  So that's an entire magazine worth of, I mean, you could fire

• 43:55Speaker 04

  Easy with an AR, you could easily unload a mag.

• 44:00Tucker Carlson?

  That is crazy town.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you have the sniper who's, who's on, on the roof who takes the shot. He's been watching. So like if you are crooks, if you're where their shooter is, and I'm where Trump is, the guy who shot him is looking here and all the way over here the whole time. He's looking to his left and back around.

• 44:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 44:20Speaker 04

  So he hears the shots. He has to get up, orient himself to where the shots are coming from. Where if he's got like earmuffs on or ear protection on, that can be kind of hard to do. Cause those, those play tricks with locating sound.

• 44:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 04

  So he's got, he's got to locate the guy where the shots are coming from. Has to make a identification of the guy who's got the gun and then has to fire at him. So like, I don't even blame that guy. Cause he, he was told to watch this sector. He's watching it. But yeah, 15 seconds. And he fires one shot.

• 44:57Tucker Carlson?

  Who is, okay, with a 308?

• 45:00Speaker 04

  Uh, 300 Win Mag.

• 45:01Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  That's a big, that's a big boy gun.

• 45:04Tucker Carlson?

  That's a scary gun.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  So it's 300 Win Mag.

• 45:07Tucker Carlson?

  Really? Is that what they use?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. Black Hills ammunition. So the cartridge was Black Hills. It was a 210 grain hollow point.

• 45:15Tucker Carlson?

  Oh my gosh.

• 45:15Speaker 04

  Tip on it. So.

• 45:17Tucker Carlson?

  That ends the conversation. So that for people who don't shoot, that's so much larger than the 223 or 556 round that Crooks is shooting. I mean, it's just.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Well, and the cartridge is huge.

• 45:27Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. It's like four bucks a cartridge.

• 45:28Speaker 04

  I mean, it's like, it, it's a big, it's a big boy cartridge. And when you fire a 300 Win Mag, like you feel that. You get fatigued pretty quick.

• 45:37Tucker Carlson?

  I had someone come to my range, um, just at my house and with his grandfather's 300 Win Mag, we were just shooting on Sunday afternoon. And he just charges the thing. And I was like, man, no more of that. That's too loud. I can't deal with it.

• 45:48Speaker 04

  So loud.

• 45:48Tucker Carlson?

  It shakes my molars.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. You go to a range where someone's shooting like 300 or off and you're like, oh.

• 45:54Tucker Carlson?

  It's impolite.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  I don't know. Put a suppressor on it.

• 45:57Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree. Wow. That's, that's.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. And 210 grain, that's a big, that's a big bullet.

• 46:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  And so I think he hits him from 155 yards and it hit him in the lip. Goes through the face, out the neck, but then back into his back. And they recovered a fragment of the mushroomed bullet from Crooks's body.

• 46:20Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he didn't suffer. Not with a 210 grain from a 300 wind mech.

• 46:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:27Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. So tell me about the cop who says he shot Crooks. Where was he?

• 46:33Speaker 04

  He was, so there was this furious action going on by the AGR building. I believe there were five,

• 46:42Speaker 04

  either four or five different local law enforcement agencies. So you had the Pennsylvania State Police, you had the troopers, you had Butler County Police. So Butler County was the county where Butler is. You had the Butler Township Police.

• 46:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 46:56Speaker 04

  You had the Beaver County, I think sheriffs. So they're one county west of Butler. And then you had the Washington County, which is southwest of Butler. So you had five different local law enforcement. The Washington guys, I believe, were down by the horse ring.

• 47:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 47:15Speaker 04

  Which is probably a good 400 to 500 yards away from everything, but they, they had fairly good visual coverage of everything. So it was mostly the Butler and Beaver County people. So they're furiously searching around. You've got one guy who, who tried to climb on the roof because they're furiously searching. He climbs on the roof. He's got, his partner hoists him up. So he's kind of holding on like this to the roof, looks up and sees the shooter right there. He says, the shooter turns on him and aims him. And he said, I don't know what happened next. I don't know if I lost my grip. He said, next thing I know, I'm on the ground. I'm on the concrete. He said, there's no way for me to pull my gun because I'm, he's like hanging,

• 47:59Speaker 04

  like doing a pull up. It's like I'm hanging there. I'm not going to be able to like.

• 48:03Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  So he says, I don't, I don't remember exactly what happened. All I know is I saw him. Crooks turned and aimed his rifle at me and the next thing I know, I'm getting myself up off the concrete.

• 48:14Tucker Carlson?

  Damn. So who is the cop who says he shot Crooks?

• 48:17Speaker 04

  I think it was a Beaver County cop.

• 48:20Tucker Carlson?

  At, at some distance though.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, not, he wasn't right on him, but he had him in his sights, fired one round.

• 48:28Tucker Carlson?

  With a rifle.

• 48:29Speaker 04

  With a rifle. Swears he shot him.

• 48:32Tucker Carlson?

  But there's no evidence that he did.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  There, there's no forensic evidence in Crooks's body that he was shot, but Crooks stopped firing after the eighth round, which was simultaneous with the round from that cop.

• 48:45Speaker 04

  So did he hit the gun maybe?

• 48:49Speaker 04

  There's some speculation that he might have hit the stock?

• 48:53Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it sounds like he stopped the shooting.

• 48:55Speaker 04

  He absolutely did. Whether he hit him or not, he absolutely did.

• 48:57Tucker Carlson?

  So a magazine has obviously more than eight rounds in it. And I assume Croxas did as well. He had unfired rounds in the mag when the rifle was recovered, right?

• 49:08Speaker 04

  They recovered, I think, all eight shell casings.

• 49:11Tucker Carlson?

  No, but he still had ammunition in the magazine.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So why I'm asking is, it sounds like the local cops stopped the shooting.

• 49:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. He didn't stop shooting because he ran out of ammo.

• 49:22Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 49:23Tucker Carlson?

  So it was not the Secret Service that stopped this assassination attempt. It was local cops.

• 49:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's when the shooting stopped. It stopped permanently when he got a 210-grain hornady tip through his upper lip.

• 49:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  But the shooting had been stopped prior to that.

• 49:41Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Fifteen seconds, as noted, is a very long time. Why?

• 49:48Speaker 04

  Because they had no eyes on him. You had your two snipers on the roof in the North Barn, and that was the number-two unit, how they were categorized in all the documents. They never saw him because they had a gigantic tree in their way. It was impossible. And so it's interesting. We all watched that footage. Everyone's wondering who got him. So they see the guy who's kneeling down. He's on the big tripod. People automatically assumed, oh, well, he did it. And then he's got the guy prone next to him. No, well, he must have been the one to do it. You see him, like, he's either looking through, I think, his binoculars. He might have been looking through his scope. He hears the gunshots and he pops up.

• 50:30Speaker 04

  Do you remember this in the video?

• 50:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  Pops up and he kind of looks around here, like, why is he off the glass? That's weird. He doesn't know where it came from. Like, those two guys on that North Barn are furiously looking where it is.

• 50:43Tucker Carlson?

  There's no way you could know. I mean, it's impossible to know.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:47Tucker Carlson?

  Unless you were looking, had someone looking there.

• 50:49Speaker 04

  Exactly, which they didn't. And then you have the counter sniper team lead, who had convinced himself that because they had local cops in the building, that that was their job to be watching that, even though it was physically impossible for them to do. And they were never told they had to do that. And then the one guy who had a sightline to that was assigned a sector that was the exact opposite of it.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  How, how, like, that's a lot of incompetence.

• 51:19Tucker Carlson?

  It's unbelievable. So, three people were shot, two in addition to President Trump.

• 51:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, that was your question. Sorry, I got sidetracked. You said, "Where did the bullets go?"

• 51:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 04

  So, three people were shot. Corey Comparatore, the firefighter, he was shot. Two other men were shot. Um, we know-

• 51:35Tucker Carlson?

  Two other men?

• 51:36Speaker 04

  Yes. There were three, there were four people shot. Trump, two men who were shot and didn't die, and Corey, who was killed by a bullet.

• 51:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, right next to my producer, like, right next to him, which is wild. Um, yeah, it was right there. You said he was covered in blood.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 51:56Tucker Carlson?

  From it. Yes, I'm only saying that because there's a lot of drama.

• 52:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:00Tucker Carlson?

  It's not just Trump getting shot in the face.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, man died.

• 52:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, was murdered.

• 52:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:05Tucker Carlson?

  And two others were shot. Do we know anything about them or how they fared?

• 52:09Speaker 04

  They're, they're alive and well. Um, there was an interview with them by one of the networks a couple of weeks ago, but they're alive and well and they're talking about it. Um, obviously, they'll carry scars with it forever. Um, but I don't believe they were permanently disabled in any way.

• 52:26Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  But they couldn't account for all the bullets.

• 52:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Which, which makes sense. You know, something nicks a bleacher and goes off into the ground, you're never finding a bullet.

• 52:35Tucker Carlson?

  These are 22 caliber bullets, just to be clear.

• 52:37Speaker 04

  Yep. So, so they were two, two, three caliber bullets in a 5.56 cartridge.

• 52:44Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 52:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:45Tucker Carlson?

  But the bullet itself is 22 caliber.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 52:48Tucker Carlson?

  These are tiny, tiny-

• 52:49Speaker 04

  Very small. People who don't shoot guns and think ARs are massive, big, powerful guns, they'd be shocked at how tiny, uh, 223 rounds are.

• 52:58Tucker Carlson?

  Right. The point is the velocity, the-

• 52:59Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 53:00Tucker Carlson?

  How fast they're going. But it's not a 210 grain Hornady tip 300 mag. Right. Which you could not mistake for anything but like a bullet.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  Right.

• 53:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So, uh, wow, okay. So, we know nothing about the shooter. We know nothing about why he did this, his beliefs, um, who he spoke to. We, he's just, we know nothing about him.

• 53:22Speaker 04

  He's a cipher. Yeah, no, literally nothing.

• 53:24Tucker Carlson?

  He's the only 20-year-old with no social media presence. And apparently no cutlery, silverware in his house?

• 53:31Speaker 04

  So, yeah, I remember, I remember that news report.

• 53:34Tucker Carlson?

  My daughter just told me that.

• 53:35Speaker 04

  So it was reported that afterwards. Um, I don't, my theory is that, um, silverware was taken as evidence because he was mixing bombs in his house.

• 53:48Tucker Carlson?

  Oh.

• 53:49Speaker 04

  I did not read anywhere that when officers showed up, because they interviewed one ATF agent who was actually in the home and who's the one who discovered the IED in Crooks's bedroom. No mention of no silverware. He's like, no, it's a normal house. It was well-kept. It was clean. It's not like a bunch of, uh, sloppy, sloppy hoarders lived there. It's like a nice, normal house in order. Um, yeah, so I, I don't know where the silverware, because I've heard the same thing. I've not read a single report from someone who was there that says, yeah, we got in there and there's no silverware. Um, I suspect that they took it to test it forensically, to see if he was mixing bombs with it. Because he had a gallon of nitromethane in his, uh, in his closet.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  It was openly viewable.

• 54:35Tucker Carlson?

  What, I, pardon me, Urs, what's nitromethane?

• 54:38Speaker 04

  It, it's, uh, a major component of bomb-making. Um, it's liquid, has an odor.

• 54:44Tucker Carlson?

  And can you, can you buy it?

• 54:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:47Tucker Carlson?

  At a hardware store?

• 54:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. Totally buy it off the shelf.

• 54:50Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. Nitromethane.

• 54:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, so he had a gallon of it. And so the, the ATF guy walks in, sees the bomb, looks around, sees in his closet this gallon of explosive material. And then at that point, they immediately clear the whole house, and I believe all the houses, one house around it.

• 55:13Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. But that, but, but we still don't know anything about him or why he did this. We also don't know why, according to your account, why the Secret Service ma- made this like colossal error in judgment and just like left out an entire quadrant of a potential field of fire, just kind of ignored it. We don't know why.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  No.

• 55:33Tucker Carlson?

  No. But we do know-

• 55:34Speaker 04

  They'll blame it on manpower. That, that's, that's always the easy bureaucratic solution.

• 55:39Tucker Carlson?

  But even that, is it true that, um, Dr. Jill Biden, America's, I think, most famous-

• 55:46Speaker 04

  What did Whoopi say?

• 55:47Tucker Carlson?

  Research scientist.

• 55:48Speaker 04

  Amazing doctor. Amazing doctor. She should be surgeon general.

• 55:51Tucker Carlson?

  Um, but is it true that she was having an event and that that bled off like manpower that could have been used at the Trump event?

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Yes, one, it didn't just bleed off manpower. So she had an event in Pittsburgh. Um, there was bleed off in the radios. So the Secret Service at the Butler event for Trump was actually having issues with their radios because they were getting bleed over from the radios from the agents at Jill Biden's event.

• 56:16Tucker Carlson?

  Dr. Jill.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  Dr. Jill, excuse me. Excuse me, Dr. Jill.

• 56:19Tucker Carlson?

  That's incredible. Um, and, okay, so that's a whole lot of we don't knows. Like, um, so your third question was what happened after to everybody?

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Yep. Nothing.

• 56:33Tucker Carlson?

  Nothing.

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. Sorry to break the suspense there, but like, nothing.

• 56:37Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. So what do you think this adds up to? You said you were vacillating between two and three. Can you remind us what the-

• 56:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. So two was what I call strategic incompetence where, where Trump was deliberately left vulnerable. And, and I think that for a whole host of reasons. One, that I'm conscious and I've been alive. But right after the shooting, um, my, my wife and I were together working on home projects and we got, we hadn't been paying attention to our phones and so started getting texts from people. My wife got a text from her friend, Trump's been shot. Like, we're just kind of like stunned, like immediately pray because we don't know what the result is.

• 57:21Speaker 04

  Couple of minutes later, get texts that he's okay. And then, right after that, my phone starts going crazy. I'm getting texts and everything. And one of the most interesting texts I got, which I tweeted about, was that the Secret Service Special Operations Division, which is kind of like the elite division within the Secret Service, if you can say that, they had been asking for more protection for years for Trump, repeatedly, over and over and again. And it was denied repeatedly, denied so much that they just stopped asking for it. Because it was kind of viewed as if you ask for something, you're not going to get. It's like gauche within the agency.

• 58:02Tucker Carlson?

  Denied by whom?

• 58:04Speaker 04

  Another great question we don't have an answer to.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  So, it's, Secret Service is now under the umbrella of DHS.

• 58:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it was always under Treasury.

• 58:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was. And then, they moved it, I don't know, five, 10 years ago?

• 58:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 04

  So, under Mayorkas, like a real, real competent public servant there.

• 58:20Tucker Carlson?

  Patriot, yeah.

• 58:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, you've got him. Did the rejections come from DHS? I don't know. You've got Cheadle up there, who's an idiot. Did it come from her? I don't know.

• 58:30Tucker Carlson?

  Where did she go when she retired, by the way?

• 58:31Speaker 04

  I don't think we know. Actually, no, I'm going to assume she's doing security for like a Fortune 500 CEO.

• 58:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, exactly. Or a University of California school, you know?

• 58:40Speaker 04

  But no, we don't know where she is now.

• 58:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 58:44Tucker Carlson?

  So, but it's not clear why they denied, or who denied.

• 58:48Speaker 04

  Nope. Don't know why, who, how often. And that weekend, so I put that out, it gets some traction. Secret Service spokesman, Anthony Guglielmi, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, something like that, spent the whole weekend calling reporters and telling them I was making it up. That never happened. But it's out of statements, not true. He's never denied anything.

• 59:11Tucker Carlson?

  Bobby Kennedy was denied Secret Service protection. You know, they didn't want to run against him. They'd rather he be dead.

• 59:17Speaker 04

  Clearly.

• 59:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. And, um, but that's such sinister behavior. I mean, that's a kind of attempted murder, really. So I don't, just don't understand how, I mean, disobedience to the regime is punished immediately. Tax evasion is punished immediately, but like attempted murder is not?

• 59:35Speaker 04

  Well, you're asking who's Thomas Crooks? We know more about Joe the plumber. You remember Joe the plumber?

• 59:40Tucker Carlson?

  Very well. He died unfortunately.

• 59:41Speaker 04

  He did.

• 59:41Tucker Carlson?

  I knew him. Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 04

  He asked a question about taxes to Obama, like in a rope line.

• 59:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  They gave that dude like the media digital colonoscopy within like five minutes. We know more about a guy who asked Obama a question about taxes than we do about a guy who shot Trump in the head.

• 59:57Tucker Carlson?

  Well, of course. The media really are a player in all this. They're not just like dupes. They're not just, you know, the PR office for, for the regime. They are like player, they are players, they're active participants in, um, you know, totalitarianism, I would say.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  Do you know how Crooks's father found out his son was the shooter?

• 1:00:19Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  CNN called him.

• 1:00:22Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, we're talking about kind of like weird creepy media stuff.

• 1:00:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  So there's no ID on Thomas Crooks. They get to the body. He's dead. They don't know who he is. The only thing they have is a serial number on his rifle. So they call up ATF and they do what's called an urgent trace to figure out where was this gun bought? And I think it takes them, Detlebach, the ATF director, says it took him 30 minutes. I think it took like two hours. But they know by around like 8:30, definitely by nine ish, that the dad bought the gun and where he bought it from. And it was from a retailer that had since been closed. They put together a report, like a pretty narrow distribution of people. I think it went to Pennsylvania State Police. So local police could go stake the place out.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  Went to FBI, ATF had it, but it's a very, very small distribution. And we know, because we've got the testimony from the guy who sent it out.

• 1:01:17Speaker 04

  ATF and a couple cops are sent to go do a stakeout on Crooks's father's house. So they get there, we'll call it like 10 or 10:30. At that point, they're already seeing cars slowly drive by in ways that obviously they don't live on that street. And I think 10:56, they get a word from a dispatcher that Crooks's father has called 911 to report his son missing. At that point, they're no longer doing a stakeout. They have to go confront him because obviously he knows something. They go up to his door, he meets them out there, and he says, is it true? Was it my son?

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  And they ask him, why would you say that? He said, CNN called me and told me. He got two calls from CNN and a call from an NBC producer.

• 1:02:11Tucker Carlson?

  How, that does not make sense at all. How could that happen?

• 1:02:14Speaker 04

  Somebody leaked it.

• 1:02:15Tucker Carlson?

  But how, how would someone know who he was?

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  They had it from the ATF report that had the trace of the serial number. So somebody, yeah, the ATF report, somebody had that and decided, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna call CNN and NBC. They don't know who did it.

• 1:02:31Tucker Carlson?

  But it's interesting that they would know it was the son because it was the father on the ATF record. He's the one who purchased the rifle. But somehow CNN and NBC knew that it was not the father, but the son.

• 1:02:40Speaker 04

  Well, because at that point, did we know the age of the person?

• 1:02:45Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think we knew anything.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. So yeah, CNN called me and told me. And when I found that out, by the way, I'm still angry about the whole Roger Stone raid.

• 1:02:54Tucker Carlson?

  I am just thinking that exact thing. That's so funny.

• 1:02:56Speaker 04

  CNN happened to be there that morning, right before the cops got there. They are liars. They are liars. They absolutely had it leaked to them.

• 1:03:04Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:03:04Speaker 04

  And so I saw that and it just instantly reminded me of the Roger Stone thing and it made me angry again.

• 1:03:10Tucker Carlson?

  I was just thinking that. To be active participants in the repression of a population by its government is like pretty, it's like capo behavior. It's like really, really dark and evil.

• 1:03:21Tucker Carlson?

  And that's who they are. Yeah. I spent 10 years there, I know. Yep. With Donald Trump returning to the White House, this country has a unique opportunity, maybe our last opportunity, to save ourselves from the anti-American and anti-human left. But our efforts may be stymied by the deep state. That's what happened to the first Trump term. Permanent Washington stands in the way of all efforts to improve the lives of ordinary Americans. And right now, they are scheming to do the same thing to the second Trump administration. They are determined to keep their stranglehold on power, regardless of elections, antidemocratically. That is a fact. So what do you do to fight them?

• 1:04:05Tucker Carlson?

  How do you defeat the deep state? Well, one way you can is by supporting the Heritage Foundation, which is in Washington and understands exactly how it works in such a way that they're a threat and they're under attack. You know who's effective because the other one's under attack? Heritage has a comprehensive plan to dismantle Permanent Washington and restore the country to its democratic foundations. It's important. Visit heritage.org/tucker to learn more and to support this critical effort. And when you make a gift today, you get a free pocket constitution to make certain that you are equipped with the founding principles on your person at all times. It's amazing to read it. Again, that's heritage.org/tucker.

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from Star.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Make them remember you.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th. Made in PG-13.

• 1:05:02Speaker 07

  Priceline Negotiator. It's me, the Priceline Negotiator. We don't need the jingle twice. What about a third time? Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Seems like they just started. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Time to read the tagline. Fine. No one deals more deals than... Priceline. Please stop. Priceline. Touche. Priceline. Priceline.

• 1:05:46Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't fully know when I was there, but like, yeah, no, they're, they're not observers at all.

• 1:05:51Speaker 04

  They're players.

• 1:05:52Tucker Carlson?

  They're players, and they're big players. That's why they hate the internet so much.

• 1:05:58Speaker 04

  But you know, that leak, it materially changed how the police responded.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  They, you know, they found bombs, they're, they're trying to get a perimeter, they're trying to keep an eye on things, they're waiting to get the signal to actually go confront the family. And because this guy got, I'm convinced that he called police after being called by CNN.

• 1:06:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 04

  It's not in the report, but like, you'll never convince me otherwise. Materially changed how the cops had to approach the home of the shooter. To me, it's just unconscionable.

• 1:06:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that's not surprising.

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  And then let's imagine you're CNN, you think you got this great scoop. What are you getting out of informing a father of that? Because they didn't report it.

• 1:06:43Tucker Carlson?

  Right, well, they do a lot that they don't report.

• 1:06:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Tucker Carlson?

  A lot. Including in the Roger Stone raid. I mean, they were participants in political repression, cheerleaders for it, but not just cheerleaders, they were like part of the process.

• 1:06:55Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:06:56Tucker Carlson?

  They were used by the Biden administration to...

• 1:07:01Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that was actually the Trump.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  I think that was the Trump FBI still, although it's, it's all the same.

• 1:07:05Tucker Carlson?

  Right, it's just crazy that that could have, that that could have happened, the lack of control over the federal agencies by the executive, by the White House is like, I hope we never see that again, because that's really dark. But anyway, yeah, CNN, very, very bad.

• 1:07:22Tucker Carlson?

  Is there, I know I've asked the same question 15 times, but I just, I can't believe there's no real answer. We don't know anything about who Crooks talked to?

• 1:07:31Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:07:31Tucker Carlson?

  Before this, nothing?

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  Nope, don't know who he was texting, don't know what was going on on these encrypted apps. We know he went to the range that day.

• 1:07:40Tucker Carlson?

  Why not, why doesn't the Congress issue subpoenas to find out?

• 1:07:44Speaker 04

  Because they're completely weak and neutered. I mean, my view is Congress is by far the most powerful branch.

• 1:07:51Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  It controls the purse.

• 1:07:52Tucker Carlson?

  It's designed to be.

• 1:07:53Speaker 04

  Exactly. And yet, in in practice today in 2025, it's far and away the weakest.

• 1:08:01Tucker Carlson?

  Except when they do the one thing that they do do, which is to preserve the total control over the United States by the national security state. And so you're seeing this right now where, you know, committee chairman in the Congress are saying to the incoming administration, no, no, no, it has to be all deep staters. Like, you can't have Tulsi Gabbard or anyone like Tulsi Gabbard. It's all got to be, you know, John Ratcliffe or someone, you know, we know and who's obviously under our control. And they're insistent on that, exercising that power, which I find really interesting.

• 1:08:34Speaker 04

  And how long? I was so naive. Like, I believed that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq because they told us there were. Like, why would they lie? So it didn't dawn on me that they were all just corrupt liars until really the Russiagate hoax. But it didn't start in 2001. Like, I feel like it's been that way for like 70 years.

• 1:08:57Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's certainly been that way. I mean, like, we know for a fact it's been that way since right around late November of 1963. Like, we just know that. So, but I agree. I mean, I just think it goes back to, you know, the Second World War.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, because they didn't, their first crime was

• 1:09:14Tucker Carlson?

  The good war.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  Their first crime was not killing Kennedy. Like, that wasn't like dipping their toes in the water.

• 1:09:19Tucker Carlson?

  No, no. They had some practice rounds. It's just interesting that this seems like, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you, and I do think you're probably the most informed person in all media, though I don't know if you'd admit to being in media, but do you think of yourself as a media?

• 1:09:37Speaker 04

  Well, I don't like to use the J word.

• 1:09:41Speaker 04

  Filthy.

• 1:09:42Tucker Carlson?

  I know. It's funny, you and Schellenberger, two of my favorite, right at the top of my favorite journalist list, and neither one of you like started out to do intending to do this, or have like, you know, went to journalism school, you're both doing completely different things. It's interesting.

• 1:09:59Speaker 04

  That's actually how it should be.

• 1:10:00Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree.

• 1:10:01Speaker 04

  That's actually how it used to be.

• 1:10:02Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:10:02Speaker 04

  It used to be a blue collar job and you'd work a beat and now you have to go to Medill or Columbia and it's just embarrassing.

• 1:10:09Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's interesting though, journalists I respect more are all people who could be doing something else, making a lot more money, who didn't set out to do this, just sort of out of curiosity and patriotism and, you know, kind of like moral responsibility are doing it. So, and you're in that category. So, thank you. But anyway, the, the reason I want to talk to you was, it felt like you can do something as obvious as set up a shooting of Donald Trump in the summer of an election year and get away with it, like then you're still in control of everything.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  The craziest thing, and, and people in, in Trump's circle have told me, there's, there's no chance it could have happened this way. They swear, there's no way it happened this way. Do you remember JD's Rogan interview?

• 1:10:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:10:55Speaker 04

  He's kind of talking about when he was, his process of interviewing to be VP and all that. And Trump was considering bringing him up at that Butler rally and announcing him.

• 1:11:06Tucker Carlson?

  I know. Yeah, I know. That, that was, not just considering, but that was, that was like a much discussed.

• 1:11:13Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. So, so kind of at that point, JD's been told, like, you're it. And now we know with Trump, like, it's never actually done until it's done. So, it wasn't technically done.

• 1:11:23Tucker Carlson?

  It was done Monday afternoon, though. That was Saturday.

• 1:11:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. But JD's been told they're, they're mulling the idea of him going to Butler and then Trump's like, no, we don't really want to do that. We haven't done the prep and all that. So, we'll just put a, you know, put a pin in that. That was the last rally before he had announced a VP.

• 1:11:45Speaker 04

  So that's if you are a crooked evil deep stater and you want to get rid of the virus that is Donald Trump and make sure that he doesn't get to pick the person who'd be running in his stead of something happens.

• 1:11:57Tucker Carlson?

  Make sure it doesn't get to reproduce.

• 1:11:59Speaker 04

  That's, that's, that's when you would do it. And so I've asked, I said, did anyone leak that? He said, no, impossible. No one leaked it. And I said, okay, 100% believe, like kind of just knowing who's around that 100% believe that. You're telling me it's impossible that nobody heard the conversation through other means?

• 1:12:20Tucker Carlson?

  Who leaks the fact that JD was going to speak at that rally?

• 1:12:22Speaker 04

  Or leaked that like he had basically been picked?

• 1:12:26Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, no, that was known. Well, I knew that.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  Okay, I didn't know that.

• 1:12:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:12:30Speaker 04

  We're in different circles, Tucker.

• 1:12:31Tucker Carlson?

  No, not really. I mean, I'm like living in some weird world place, but I'm in Maine. But no, I knew that. Absolutely. And a lot of people knew that. I mean, all people I know who knew that are good people who love Trump. And I mean, I'm not suggesting, I'm not suggesting anything, but I'm just in point of fact, a lot of people.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. So if other people knew it, that, that is a.

• 1:12:51Tucker Carlson?

  The more people who know, you know, the more people will know.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I just, that thing, I don't know if I'll ever be able to get that out of my head. The timing, based on what was going on that weekend.

• 1:13:01Tucker Carlson?

  But there was at least one subsequent attempt assassination attempt on Donald Trump's life. Were there others?

• 1:13:11Speaker 04

  So you're talking about the West Palm one?

• 1:13:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but I mean, after, after mid-July, were there, do you think other attempts?

• 1:13:17Speaker 04

  I don't know. Were there?

• 1:13:20Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I don't know. But I, you know, I think, I think there might have been.

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  No, you just didn't hear about him?

• 1:13:25Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's entirely.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  I would totally, I would, I would buy that.

• 1:13:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So who was the West Palm, the West Palm guy was like?

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  That one is so much wackier than the Butler one.

• 1:13:35Tucker Carlson?

  In touch with all these members of Congress.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, he, I think there was a photo of him with that stupid chef, that stupid commie chef. What's his name?

• 1:13:45Tucker Carlson?

  I don't have a TV.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  Jose Andres something. They've got, I think that guy got a presidential Medal of Freedom from Biden. There's a picture of him with him. He's like palling around.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  Not really.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, unless I'm like totally getting my wires crossed, I'm pretty sure that guy got a Medal of Freedom and there's a picture of him with Ralph, this like homeless Hawaiian mercenary, bringing troops to Ukraine, who's camped out on Trump's golf course after Trump's already been shot in the head and a Secret Service guy happens to see him. I think the report I read was he was five feet away, fires like 10 rounds at him, misses. And it was local cops who got the guy 45 minutes later. How does that happen?

• 1:14:34Tucker Carlson?

  It's just, it's all so incredible.

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Tucker Carlson?

  So do you, the members, I just want to put it on the record, the members of Congress, you said that the two committee inquiries were pretty good.

• 1:14:45Speaker 04

  Given the constraints that they have, so Congress doesn't have a lot of staff for doing this stuff.

• 1:14:50Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:14:50Speaker 04

  They had no time, they don't have the investigative tools that the FBI has. You had the Senate Homeland Security Committee that did its own report, and then you had the Butler Task Force bipartisan in the House that did its report. I thought they did a great job, both of them, given the limitations and constraints they have. It was, I don't know how they could have been more thorough, given the FBI trying to block them from doing anything.

• 1:15:16Tucker Carlson?

  Is this the end of the inquiry?

• 1:15:18Speaker 04

  It better not be. I mean, Trump's coming in, in a couple of days, he's gonna be president, hopefully gonna get his people in office. Better not be the end of the inquiry.

• 1:15:31Tucker Carlson?

  I kind of feel like there's so much going on in the world right now, that, you know, maybe people just kind of forget to ask.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I know enough about human nature to where I can't dismiss that.

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  But yeah, there's always some news story we have to go like react to and pretend we're like very upset about and it's like every day. Remember when news cycles were like three days long?

• 1:16:00Tucker Carlson?

  I remember very well.

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  I like

• 1:16:01Tucker Carlson?

  I remember when Natalie Holloway disappeared in Aruba.

• 1:16:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Tucker Carlson?

  Um, and I worked in cable news then and we spent, you know, approximately three years talking about it every day. But, you know, no disrespect to Natalie Holloway or the inherent significance of a story about a dead American. It's important, but yeah, no, that was, and you sort of wonder what was, what else was going on while we were talking about Natalie Holloway?

• 1:16:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I've gone back and thought of all the time I wasted with Gary Condit.

• 1:16:26Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 1:16:27Tucker Carlson?

  You know, how much time do we spend looking into what happened on nine 11 right around zero? Just repeating all the dumb talking points that hit us for our freedoms and all that stuff and not asking obvious questions. Why, some people were celebrating it. Well, who were those people? And like, what is this?

• 1:16:40Speaker 04

  I think one of the hijacks was living with an FBI informant for like a year.

• 1:16:43Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's correct.

• 1:16:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. Mistakes were made.

• 1:16:46Tucker Carlson?

  It's all still classified, so you can't know.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Tucker Carlson?

  Um, interesting. So the, the obvious question is why aren't other elected officials so anxious to get to the bottom of this? Because it has implications for them. When this happened, my wife said, you know, are we ever going to find out what this was? And I said with false confidence, absolutely. One thing members of Congress care about is not being assassinated. So like they have every vested interest in finding out what this was and in making the right reforms so they can stay safe themselves. I turned out to be completely wrong. Like, what is that?

• 1:17:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, I don't know what's happened to Congress. I think it's probably a combination of, obviously, the more responsibility you take, if you're going to take 100% of the powers you've been given by the founders and the constitution and exercise that every day, you're going to have 100% of the accountability. There's nothing a member of Congress politician hates more than accountability.

• 1:17:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:17:46Speaker 04

  So they are generally happy to, um, delegate all of their authority to the executive, where they can just blame stuff on bureaucrats. Oh, it was a bad process. It's a bad bureaucrat. People in Washington love blaming process. Have you noticed that?

• 1:18:01Tucker Carlson?

  I have noticed.

• 1:18:02Speaker 04

  Always the process. There's never a person at fault for anything. It's always a process that can be strengthened.

• 1:18:08Tucker Carlson?

  You worked in the Senate, you worked for Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, God rest his soul. So you can answer this question, but as I just look onto the Congress where I've never worked, but it seems like the single most corrupt or certainly the most infuriating part of the Congress is the Republicans in the Senate.

• 1:18:27Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh, we fought with them more than Democrats.

• 1:18:31Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so you agree with that?

• 1:18:33Speaker 04

  Oh, you have no idea.

• 1:18:35Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so I'm thinking like, who do I dislike most?

• 1:18:37Speaker 04

  Mitch McConnell.

• 1:18:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. It's not Alexandria Ocasio or whatever she's calling herself, you know, it's like a buffoon. But, and at least has, you know, 10% sincerity in my read. But I look at some of the Republicans, you know, Rish and some of these guys, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is really sinister.

• 1:18:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, and man, Coburn was, that guy was a unicorn. There will only ever be one of him. He didn't care what anyone thought about him. He hated everyone in Washington, hated Washington itself. All he wanted to do was like go up there and cut spending and restore some sanity and then go deliver babies on the weekend. And then the Senate was like, actually, we're going to ban you from doing that because it's a conflict of interest.

• 1:19:21Tucker Carlson?

  Delivering babies?

• 1:19:23Speaker 04

  Delivering babies. He's like, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it for free. I'll pay Med Mal out of my own pocket. I said, no, no, you can't do that. We're going to ban you. The Senate Ethics Committee went after him for years.

• 1:19:35Tucker Carlson?

  For delivering babies?

• 1:19:36Speaker 04

  For delivering babies.

• 1:19:37Tucker Carlson?

  It's too life-affirming.

• 1:19:39Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:19:41Tucker Carlson?

  Killing babies, if he was an abortionist, that, you know, that's a separate thing.

• 1:19:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, but, you know, actually touching and being with constituents, that was too much. But I remember doing stuff with him where we would have constantly people telling us, we don't do things like that around here.

• 1:19:58Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:19:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, all the time. And we'd be like, what do you mean, you don't do things like? No, that's, that's not how we do things around here. And because we were all so young and green and idealistic, it was actually the genius in how he put together staff. It wasn't like an all-star cast of like elite players. He just took a bunch of chuckleheads who like believed in his mission and was like, yeah, go, go do damage out there. And so we did it. And so we were too stupid to know what we weren't supposed to be doing.

• 1:20:29Tucker Carlson?

  Why isn't every, I mean, there seems to be something peculiarly specifically wrong with the dynamic among Republicans in the Senate. I don't know what that is. Like, they seem more committed to betraying their voters than any other group I've ever seen in politics.

• 1:20:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's super weird. They're, for most of them, it's like their Senate tenure is five years of doing what they want, and then a year of promising to do what their voters want.

• 1:20:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:20:55Speaker 04

  It's like a sickness. I genuinely don't understand it. I don't know if something happens when you become a Republican senator, that happens to like 90% of them, where they get there and they just like being important, and that becomes the thing they care about. And they're so, you talked about the media being a player. The media like exists in large part to gaslight Republicans into doing what they want.

• 1:21:17Tucker Carlson?

  To control them.

• 1:21:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so these guys, they, for whatever reason, they care what CNN thinks about them, and they care what the New York Times thinks about them. And they don't understand that if you actually want to be powerful as a Republican, not caring what anyone thinks about you makes you a frickin' superhero.

• 1:21:33Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with that.

• 1:21:33Speaker 04

  Makes you untouchable. They don't, like, the machine doesn't know how to handle someone who doesn't care about their next job or the next puff piece. You're basically an alien to them. They don't know how to intimidate you or how to threaten you. Like, "Oh, you'll cast me out of this awful city full of terrible people? Oh, no. What'll I do?"

• 1:21:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, do you see it changing at all?

• 1:21:59Speaker 04

  A little bit. It changes with the class. So I've got a friend who's, who's like one of the few really good true believers on the right, worked in the Senate for a long time, total genius, parliamentary genius. And he says you can kind of judge senators, unlike House members, you can judge senators by the class that they were elected into. And that kind of tells you about the character of that whole group of people. So you've got the guys who came in in 2002, war on terror, gotta fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. They're the worst neocons.

• 1:22:32Tucker Carlson?

  The worst.

• 1:22:33Speaker 04

  And, and that kind of bleeds into '04. And then you get the oh six thing where I don't think we even elected a new Republican Senator because it was such a political bloodbath because the Iraq war is a disaster. Then oh eight, you've got the Obama years and then the first kind of big year was 2010. That was all Tea Party.

• 1:22:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:51Speaker 04

  Those guys still have the Tea Party mentality, which is fine. I think the Tea Party was great.

• 1:22:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Speaker 04

  But you have to be able to like evolve with the electorate. They're still stuck in like Tea Party town. And then 2014 was like the repeal Obamacare. That was the thing. And it really wasn't until 2016 where you actually started seeing a change that was reflective of where the people are. Happening again in 2018. And then most of the guys coming in now are so much better than the people they served with who got elected 20 years ago. That's not even close.

• 1:23:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  And yet they're still senators. They still care about what people think about them. Someone like you or me will never ever be in that body.

• 1:23:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, no, and I would, you know, I'd rather die. But what's interesting is it's not on questions like, you know, we spent all this time on the tranny question, which I think is inherently important. And I do think if you eliminate sex differences, civilization collapses because they're built on sex differences. That's my view. So I'm completely aligned. I couldn't be more pro-life. And I think there are tons of Republicans in both houses who agree with all that or say they do or do a good job of pretending it's fine. It's the national security intel stuff, the police power stuff, surveillance power stuff. Man, they are, they, that's what they take serious. That's what they actually care about. Have you noticed this?

• 1:24:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And it's actually, um, you see guys who really want to get on the intel committee?

• 1:24:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:24:24Speaker 04

  Like unless you're going to do real oversight, which I think one person, Devin Nunes, has ever done on that committee, the only reason to be on that is to like be cool. You get to be with the spies and you get read in on it and they make you feel special and you get to go on Codell's and then maybe one day they'll write a book about you like Charlie Wilson's War about how courageous you were in shipping a bunch of weapons all around the world and starting wars that we're still dealing with the ramifications of. Like it's the Jason Bourne, like John le Carré kind of stuff that they actually think they're a part of.

• 1:24:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 1:25:42Tucker Carlson?

  happens. Go to jacacecase.com, enter the code TUCKER to make sure you have the right meds on hand when you need them, which is the moment when you can't get them. Jace.

• 1:25:53Speaker 00

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  Film for IMAX.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  Make them remember you.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 1:26:08Speaker 07

  Priceline Negotiator. It's me, the Priceline Negotiator. We don't need the jingle twice. What about a third time? Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Seems like they just started. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Time to read the tagline. Fine. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Please stop. Priceline. Touche. Priceline. Priceline.

• 1:26:52Tucker Carlson?

  I really think they're evil. I mean that. I mean, way more evil than like, you know, I'm, I think Head Start was a disaster. Social Security is bankrupting the country. Medicare, you know, there's all these problems with social workers, but you don't look at that and say the people who started that are evil. They're just like dumb, or they didn't foresee the consequences of the, of what they were doing. But like, the people who, you know, cheered the murder of Gaddafi, or never admitted they lied about weapons of mass destruction, the people pushing, you know, claiming that we should lower the conscription age in Ukraine to 18 because we haven't killed enough Ukrainians after a million have died or been wounded. I just think that's evil.

• 1:27:32Speaker 04

  It is evil. It's people who, it's almost like they get off on the rah rah team sport aspect of people getting blown to bits.

• 1:27:41Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:27:42Speaker 04

  And having their lives, you know, if not ended, ruined forever. And, and I swear, I don't see how any of these people, they must not have ever talked to anyone who spent any time actually doing dirty work in Iraq or Afghanistan. Because you can't spend any time-

• 1:27:58Tucker Carlson?

  It destroys those guys.

• 1:27:58Speaker 04

  It, it, it destroyed a whole generation of warfighters and young men. I mean, and it's in evil ways-

• 1:28:05Tucker Carlson?

  And not just because they were killed or disabled. We're only looking at a small part of that. I've known some of them well. It's killing people is bad for you. And, you know, sometimes you have to kill people. I mean, you do. If there's, if I have a home invader, and my wife and kids are, I kill a guy, I would sleep soundly after killing him. I mean, you have to. But ultimately, killing people is bad. And it's bad for the person who kills. And we don't even acknowledge that. And I just know a lot of them. So I've seen it. And it's, would you want that on you?

• 1:28:34Speaker 04

  No. Well, I mean, it's why, it's why I never joined. Like, I just, I couldn't-

• 1:28:37Tucker Carlson?

  Not because you're afraid of being killed. It's because you're afraid of killing. And you should be. Like, that's a very heavy thing to ask someone to do. And then not to acknowledge it, just be like, oh, yeah, good job.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  When you see the scars they bring back to the mental, emotional, spiritual.

• 1:28:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:28:52Speaker 04

  And you know, some of them deal with it way better than others, but there's a reason the suicide rate's so high.

• 1:28:57Tucker Carlson?

  And the divorce rate and the addiction rate and the weirdness rate and the, the deep kind of heavy trouble that you feel on a lot of them. I don't, God, my gosh, I don't blame them. A lot of them are wonderful, admirable people and they were asked to do something and they did it. And they did it under duress and at great personal risk. And like, I admire them. I'm not criticizing them. Just saying, not to acknowledge what we've asked them to do, not to acknowledge the burden of having killed somebody. It's like, how shallow and cruel are we?

• 1:29:26Speaker 04

  Well, in, in the, the news media, the corporate media, they, they treat it like it's a fun sport. It's like a red team. What, let's look what red team versus blue team did today. Let's look at this footage of like this Russian getting killed by a drone.

• 1:29:42Tucker Carlson?

  It's horrible.

• 1:29:42Speaker 04

  And then they cheer and they, oh, isn't this great? Isn't this awesome?

• 1:29:45Tucker Carlson?

  Pornography.

• 1:29:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:29:46Tucker Carlson?

  These are human beings.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:48Tucker Carlson?

  And it didn't want to be there, didn't just like some kid gets his face blown off and you're cheering it?

• 1:29:53Speaker 04

  It's gross.

• 1:29:54Tucker Carlson?

  It's disgusting.

• 1:29:55Speaker 04

  It's weird. I, I look back on kind of how I thought about things in the run-up to the Iraq war and I'm just kind of ashamed about it.

• 1:30:02Tucker Carlson?

  Me too.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  Cause I was like the jingoistic rah rah kind of thing. And you find out it was all based on a lie. And you see that it's just, that permanently changed how I looked at that entire bureaucracy.

• 1:30:13Tucker Carlson?

  I completely agree. And I, and in 2001 and two, when I was tepidly cheerleading, I will say this, my only defense was kind of tepid. I sort of knew it was wrong, but I convinced myself it wasn't. But I, when I was, you know, making the case for the Iraq war and repeating the lies of the Bush administration, I'd never really seen violence, you know, personally seen it. And that was, you know, a huge change for me seeing that. I was like, I'm not, I'm not into this at all. I don't know why, why is this good? I don't think it's good. I don't, it doesn't feel good. You know what I mean?

• 1:30:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:41Tucker Carlson?

  It's just, I don't want, I don't want that anymore of that. I don't want to see that. I don't want to be around it at all. I don't, it's not a turn on at all. It's like horrible. And, um, so that was personally for me, a huge change, but. Um, I just think that it's important to remember, especially as Christians, like we're against violence. I don't know. We are. Sorry. We're against violence. We should not ever cheer someone's death. Right?

• 1:31:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, we're the only things made in God's image.

• 1:31:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's how I feel.

• 1:31:09Speaker 04

  In all of creation. So, so we're infinitely valuable.

• 1:31:12Tucker Carlson?

  I feel that way.

• 1:31:13Speaker 04

  So we, we shouldn't, yeah, be cheering. And it's like you said, somebody breaks into your home, they're trying to do harm to your family.

• 1:31:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Speaker 04

  You're gonna do what you, you gotta do, but just, hey, let's go.

• 1:31:21Tucker Carlson?

  But I don't wanna do it.

• 1:31:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. No, nobody should wanna do it.

• 1:31:24Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  Like you, I, I remember I was taking a, a gun training from an uncle of mine, uh, who's like a legendary firearms instructor. Um, he, he was, worked with Jeff Cooper out in gun site.

• 1:31:37Tucker Carlson?

  Wow, really?

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. He's, he's awesome. And I remember him, my, my sister and my aunt uncle and I went with this other uncle and his wife to do this training. And he made us sit in a classroom for like a whole day. And he drilled into us, what's the number one rule of gun fights? Be somewhere else.

• 1:31:57Speaker 04

  And then what's the second rule of gun fights? Have a gun. But he's like, yeah, if you're, if you're paying attention, like, if you're aware and you know what's going on around you, you, you should be, you should have the ability and the awareness to never be in a position to ever have to do it.

• 1:32:14Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 1:32:15Speaker 04

  Bar, bar some sort of awful twist of fate.

• 1:32:19Tucker Carlson?

  I, I wonder, you know, the calls for gun control, which are, you know, obviously cyclical, like every time there's some tragedy, some mass shooting, some of which do seem like they were inspired by the FBI, but I can't prove it. But anyway, just, there's always like three or four days of the media getting hysterical about gun control, taking your guns away. Those seem more half-hearted than they used to be. Maybe I'm being paranoid. And I'm wondering if maybe technology, the convergence of AI and drone technology isn't advancing to the point where the people in charge know it doesn't matter whether you have a gun anymore.

• 1:32:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed like the fever pitch of hysteria after a shooting over the last, almost like year, six months to a year. They kind of feel like they're just going through the motions with it in the media.

• 1:33:08Tucker Carlson?

  I kind of agree. It's just a fundraising.

• 1:33:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33:10Tucker Carlson?

  For like the dumb, you know, David Hogg or whatever.

• 1:33:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Tucker Carlson?

  These buffoons, media creations, um, you know, who become famous on, on, you know, on a pile of dead bodies. It's like so grotesque, but, uh, I have, this doesn't seem real to me. And I just wonder, are we at a point where like your AR is not actually a guarantee of freedom at all? Because like, technology is going to give the state so much power that like, it doesn't matter.

• 1:33:38Speaker 04

  The drone stuff I find terrifying. Terrifying.

• 1:33:41Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:33:42Speaker 04

  Especially the mass drones, because you can't stop them.

• 1:33:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:44Speaker 04

  I talked to one, a couple of months ago, I was talking to a SEAL, a former SEAL about it, who thinks about this stuff a lot. And I said, so like, how do you stop the drones? He said, get a shotgun. And I said, really? Yeah, just shoot it. Okay, what if there's like, a thousand of them? Like, I don't, shotgun I have doesn't hold a thousand rounds.

• 1:34:08Tucker Carlson?

  No, I shoot with the side by side.

• 1:34:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:11Tucker Carlson?

  Two shells.

• 1:34:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like, there, you got, you have to have a technological solution to it. I don't, I don't know how I, as like Joe Blow or you just outmind our business, you're not defeating like a weaponized drone storm at all. And I feel like Democrats, especially the ones who are all about gun control, know this, because they'll say things like, oh, you think your AR is going to help you? We have nukes and cruise missiles. Your AR is not going to stop that.

• 1:34:38Tucker Carlson?

  I think there may be something to that.

• 1:34:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:39Tucker Carlson?

  But it's just my instinct. I don't know. I mean, but I'm

• 1:34:42Speaker 04

  But it is weird.

• 1:34:43Tucker Carlson?

  It is weird. And I, and I think if you want to understand what's actually going on, like, watch the rhetoric, of course, never take it at face value, it's a lie, by definition, the slogans already lie. But they do change, and they change for a reason. And, and so I'm just concerned about that. And I, as someone who's always like, you know, had guns and ammo at home.

• 1:35:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. So there's an old quote from, I think it was JP Morgan, that I've used, it's kind of like my political motivation, finding North Star. And it's that every man has two reasons for doing things, a good reason and the real reason.

• 1:35:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Speaker 04

  So like, on gun control, the good reason that they always give, and, and I think that probably a large percentage of people who espouse it. They do intend well. Well, these hurt people and I don't want to hurt people.

• 1:35:33Tucker Carlson?

  I get it.

• 1:35:34Speaker 04

  And they don't think beyond like the second and third order consequences, but like it's it's a genuine heartfelt, this thing does awful things to people and I don't want that. So we should get rid of it. I understand where that's coming from. I don't agree with it. But then what's the, that's the good reason. So what's the real reason? I think a lot of people putting that stuff out just don't want us to be free.

• 1:35:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they, you know, they don't believe in human autonomy.

• 1:35:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:59Tucker Carlson?

  Obviously. Right. So they don't see other humans as human. They see them as slaves. You know, I think it's pretty obvious that they see them as objects, you know, who are, have no inherent rights, no inherent dignity, whose lives aren't really worth anything. It's why they love abortion and they, you know, if you really saw people as creations of God who exist independently from you and your desires, then like there's a degree to which you can control people, but then beyond that you can't, you can't, even your own children, you can't really can, can you?

• 1:36:30Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:36:30Tucker Carlson?

  Right. You can't.

• 1:36:32Speaker 04

  No, they come fully formed and you can like work 5% of the margin.

• 1:36:35Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly right. That's exactly right. And I think good parenting is in part recognizing that, you know, because you don't own them. Actually, you are more responsible for them. They are your children. They're, you know, from your body, but they're not, you know, they're human beings. And I just think those are like foundational views that a lot of people in power just don't have.

• 1:36:53Speaker 04

  No, we're viewed as cogs.

• 1:36:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:36:55Speaker 04

  Especially, especially the new kind of like managerial leftism.

• 1:36:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:37:00Speaker 04

  They look at it and they say, okay, we've got this fixed population of people and I can move this lever and I can move this lever and I'll twist this thing and then I can get those people to do what I want. We're really just inputs, things that can be tweaked according to them. We're not people who have souls.

• 1:37:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:37:16Speaker 04

  Not eternal beings who have infinite value.

• 1:37:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:37:18Speaker 04

  We're just things to be manipulated so they can get what they want. It's gross.

• 1:37:22Tucker Carlson?

  So last question, it does feel like this, I think a lot of people felt this, whether they said it out loud or not, but this election was, you know, the last chance to, to turn away from what was a certain future of enslavement. Um, that's not an overstatement. Who wins? Like in five years, what, what's your best guess for where we are?

• 1:37:49Speaker 04

  I'm not an optimist and it has nothing to do with politics.

• 1:37:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:37:52Speaker 04

  So I agree with you. I think this election was kind of a last chance.

• 1:37:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:57Speaker 04

  But it wasn't a guarantee.

• 1:37:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:37:59Speaker 04

  And my worry is that our politicians are a function of the people. Um, John Adams, I think it was either John Adams or Franklin said, "Our, our system of government is wholly unsuited to an immoral people." We were a nation found on Christian principles by Christian men who put Christ and God as the foremost things in their lives. And everything else was built around it. Our government was built around it. The way we organized the states was built around it. And it worked for a really long time until that foundation started to crumble. And I don't know when that started. Was it the Industrial Revolution? Was it Vietnam and the drug era?

• 1:38:38Speaker 04

  I, I don't know, but our moral fabric as a people is totally unrecognizable to someone who helped start the country. And so my view is absent a true collective Christian revival where we collectively repent for what we've done as a nation. Because God cares about nations. He cares about the fate of nations. He cares what nations do. He blesses them and he curses them and he judges them and he lets them prosper. Our nation had a covenant with God. Very, it was obvious why we were formed. Because we want to have a place where people can come.

• 1:39:16Tucker Carlson?

  One nation under God. I mean, they said it. It wasn't, they weren't hiding it.

• 1:39:20Speaker 04

  Do you think that is like the moral nucleus of our society today? Cause I don't. And so I don't see, absent a true foundational change in us as a people collectively. I don't see how we ever turn the ship around. And so I, I pray, obviously I pray for the president and I pray for mayors and our leaders, even when I don't like them. Cause that's what we're commanded to do. And because uh, God has put them in place either for our judgment or our blessing. Our fate is not going to be sealed by the politicians we pick. It's just not.

• 1:39:56Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:39:57Speaker 04

  And so that's my worry going forward.

• 1:39:59Tucker Carlson?

  Do you feel like, I mean, I do see around me, just in my tiny little weird world, but people who I don't think have ever thought about God, talking about God. I read that Bible sales are the highest they've been in a long time. I feel something changing.

• 1:40:15Speaker 04

  Something has changed. It feels like on election night, scales came off people's eyes. It was almost, it was a weird thing. Suddenly, people are just saying things that they weren't supposed to say. You've got NFL players, you had like John Jones, UFC doing the Trump dance after finishing a dude. Like, words that people use and sentiments they espouse were completely verboten. And that that seems to have changed. I completely agree. There appears to be a spiritual aspect in hunger in people now that I find really, really heartening. But it's like seeing the seedling sprout.

• 1:40:58Speaker 04

  Like, I want to see like the giant hardwood.

• 1:41:02Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:41:02Speaker 04

  But of course, it has to start with the seedling. Of course, it does.

• 1:41:05Tucker Carlson?

  But do you see it in your world?

• 1:41:07Speaker 04

  Absolutely, without a doubt.

• 1:41:10Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. So, I mean, that's something worth celebrating.

• 1:41:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep.

• 1:41:18Tucker Carlson?

  I appreciate you taking all this time.

• 1:41:19Speaker 04

  Well, thank you.

• 1:41:20Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.