Dax Shepard ON: Prioritizing Your Mental Health After Addiction & How to Make Peace with Your Past

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on Calm Jay Shetty sits down with Dax Shepard to talk about valuing yourself and sticking to what you believe in above all. At certain points in our life we will come across conflicting interests and opposing ideas, and these could shake the foundation of what we believe to be right. And that’s okay. Living with two opposing ideas can be challenging but these will give us new and better life perspectives. Dax Shepard is an actor, comedian, writer, and director, and of course podcast host of one of my favorite podcasts, Armchair Expert. He's known for his appearance in films like Without a Paddle, Zathura: A Space Adventure, Employee of the Month, and many, many more. He also portrayed Crosby Braverman in the NBC comedy drama series, Parenthood from 2010 to 2015. He also played Luke Matthews in the Netflix show, The Ranch, co-starred in ABC's Bless this Mess, and acted in the MTV reality series Punk’d. And since 2018, Dax has hosted the award-winning podcast show, Armchair Expert, where he interviews celebrities, journalists, and academics about the messiness of being human. Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:30 A good memory but terrible with remembering dates 09:00 The memories that support your own identity 14:14 The ‘you’ embracing yourself 23:04 Running from or embracing your ethnicity 26:18 Getting drawn to successful people 29:20 The practice of having vulnerable conversations 33:08 Getting out of the skepticism 38:49 Recognize what the people around you want 49:38 Entertaining two ideas at once that are seemingly contradictory 56:36 Encouraging critical thinking at home 01:06:11 Teaching your children how to be resilient 01:10:20 Balance between self validation and humility 01:15:43 Dax on Final Five Episode Resources Dax Shepard | Instagram Armchair Expert Podcast | YouTube | Instagram | Facebook | Twitter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile. You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have.

• 0:43Jay Shetty?

  Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop.

• 1:26Jay Shetty?

  AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements, and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:01Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised to yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,

• 2:45Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  We don't ever feel like we're enough. The other thing I think that happened in my life, which is significant, is that I joined a 12-step program 18 years ago to get sober and I got a ton of practice talking about my shortcomings, my failures, my fears. And it's a unique experience because it was met always with understanding, no judgment, compassion, unity. And I don't know how you could get those hours of practice without that.

• 3:44Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to this very untraditional On Purpose podcast that has already been taping for maybe 15 minutes of a very general conversation that Dax and I have been having. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eight rules of love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book.

• 4:27Jay Shetty?

  And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules. Go to jayshettytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences and more. I can't wait to see you this year. As you already know, our amazing guest today is none other than Dax Shepard, actor, comedian, writer and director. And of course, podcast host of one of my favorite podcasts, Armchair Expert. He's known for his appearance in films like Without Paddles, Thora, Space Adventure, Employee of the Month and many, many more. And Dax also portrayed Crosby Braverman in the NBC comedy drama series Parenthood from 2010 to 2015.

• 5:11Jay Shetty?

  He also played Luke Matthews in the Netflix show The Ranch, co-starred in ABC's Bless This Mess and acted in the MTV reality series Punk that I grew up on. And since 2018, Dax has hosted the award-winning podcast show Armchair Expert, where he interviews celebrities, journalists and academics about the messiness of being human. If you don't already listen to it, make sure you go and listen to Armchair Expert. And Dax and I got into a very random Instagram comment conversation, which led to a bit of DM, which led to us connecting in this way. So Dax, welcome to the episode and I'm genuinely a fan, an admirer, excited to connect. As I said, Kristen has been so gracious and kind to me before.

• 5:56Jay Shetty?

  It's wonderful to connect all the dots. Thank you for being here.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Oh, it's my pleasure. That, that intro was exhausting. I felt for you.

• 6:05Jay Shetty?

  I was excited by it. I love, I love diving into people's past and experiences and kind of connecting the dots because I think it's really easy to, as you know, look at someone and think, oh yeah, well, they've always been this way, or they've always had it all together. And then you look at the date that someone started and you go, oh wow, they've been doing this for a long time, you know, and I think that, that's always, it's a beautiful thing, I actually think.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I think it's weirdest for the person, you know, like when I'm now, I just had someone, an hour ago, I interviewed Mandy Moore and we got to talking about the fact that she had been unpunked. And then we started doing the math and it was like, wow, that was 18 years ago. I said, if we had had a child that night, we would be sending them off to college. That's kind of mind blowing. And aging is such a peculiar phenomenon to begin with. And the fact that if you're an actor or whatever, you have some resume that's publicly known, it's kind of documented, the timeline.

• 7:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  So there's like an upside to that, which is cool. And there's a downside to it, of course. But I have a very good memory, but I have a very terrible memory for dates. So I can basically tell you if things happened before 93 from high school, before or after 2000, and then maybe till my kids were born. There's probably a gap between 2000 and 2013, where I don't know, it could have been anywhere in that zone.

• 7:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love hearing that. It actually makes me feel a lot better because I have a friend that I connect with regularly. I went to high school with him and we actually went to the same college. So we were together from 11 to 21. And he'll remind me, be like, do you remember this person? I'll be like, oh my gosh, I've completely forgot. Or like, do you remember we did this ridiculous thing together? And it's weird because 11 to 21 are such formative years. You'd think I would remember them, but those are some of the ones that I've, I've completely wiped off my memory. So.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  And what's your theory on why that has happened?

• 7:55Jay Shetty?

  I, I mean, my theory is I, that was preceding the time that I spent living as a monk for three years. And I really believe that a lot of my rewiring of my brain and habits during my time as a monk. Erased certain memories that were no longer useful in the new identity and new mindsets that I was creating. And that wasn't conscious. It was so unconscious and unintentional, but that is the only theory I have. What about for you? Why is that 93 and then the 2000 to 2013 mark? What's your theory?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Well, now I can tell you everything that happened. I just can't tell you what years they happened in.

• 8:37Jay Shetty?

  Right. Okay.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Necessarily what predated the other thing. It's a kind of more of a chronological issue, but I do have all the memories. Now, I'll tell you a very crazy example. So I'm driving in the car one day and I don't know why I think this. Maybe I see a billboard or something. Who knows? But I just started thinking of Whoopi Goldberg and I think, huh, I love Whoopi Goldberg. I just love her. I've always loved her. She has always seemed so certain of who she was and blah, blah. And I'm just kind of, I don't know, ruminating on how much I like her or admire her. And then I had this kind of snapshot memory of hugging her. And then I thought, well, hmm, I've never met her. I don't know how I would have hugged her. And now I've become obsessed with like, is that an imagination that I have, you know? And then I'm thinking

• 9:21Speaker 01

  about it for so long, a couple hours that eventually I put into YouTube, Dax Shepard, Whoopi Goldberg. And by God, I've been on The View three times. And this is not shade to The View. I enamored with that. I think that's an incredible thing to have gotten to do. But I just had to confront. So my first thought was like, ooh, that's very scary.

• 9:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  But anyways, I was like, oh, right. I was on The View and I hugged her afterwards. And I got to tell her that I really respect her. But I wanted to kind of figure out how that had happened. That would be inconceivable to me at 12 years old if you said, hey, you're gonna be on the show one day and you're gonna forget you're on that show. And so then I was feeling bad about myself. You know, I was getting critical. This must be some failing. But then I just kind of thought, man, when you do press, people who aren't in show business, they don't know. Like if I go to New York to promote parenthood, my day is I start at the Today Show, then I go to a second version of the Today Show, I do five print media things, I end up doing The View and maybe Rachael Ray and so all these other daytime shows. And then it goes into a nighttime talk show. I'll be on, you know, you name

• 10:27Speaker 01

  it, Seth Meyers. And if you've done that, if you've been on enough shows and you've gone to New York to do that, you know, it's just, it's a capacity issue, I have to imagine, you know? It, there's, I'm only, you know, I have a finite memory and, you know, you kind of dump some of those appearances, I guess. But I wanted, of course, to find something wrong with me. And now I've come to peace with just like, yeah, I know, it's not like I'm a hot shot. I'm not arrogant. I don't think I'm, I'm too cool for the view. That's not it. It's just a capacity issue.

• 10:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a capacity issue. And, and like you said, a repetition issue. If you're doing something repeatedly, you're not going to remember it the seventh time or the third time you do it. And

• 11:08Speaker 01

  That's key.

• 11:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause my first time on the Today Show, I could tell you every moment of it.

• 11:13Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  You know, as if it's been recorded and then not any of the subsequent ones, probably.

• 11:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's, that's a really good way of putting it. I think what's fascinating about memory, though, seeing as we've gone there now, is so many of our memories are also based on pictures that we saw of ourselves as children. So what I've realized is when you can see yourself in a memory, that's not a memory, it's a picture, because your view as a memory, you would be not looking at yourself.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Great way to delineate that. But I'll add to the confusion for me personally is like, if I'm on Letterman, I, there is a monitor by the camera. So I actually can see me on Letterman while I'm on Letterman. So then again, now for me to unravel whether I remember the appearance that I saw on TV or my experience there, I don't know. Who knows?

• 12:03Jay Shetty?

  But that's the worst case of inception there probably is. So yeah, that, that sounds pretty tough.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're also in like a, a mirror with a mirror behind you. It's like, I don't know.

• 12:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  I don't know what image is correct.

• 12:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I often, I often get fascinated by that memory point, though, that, you know, how many of those experiences that I remember of childhood were actually me living them or my parents showed me video or, you know, my parents showed me a picture of myself. And, and I think about that often with how, I, I'm someone that doesn't, despite my life being on social media and certain parts documented, I'm actually not good at getting my phone out and grabbing pictures and it's, it's Not a part of my daily, I don't really walk around my phone out so much. And then I of, but I often also ask that, well, if I had didn't, if I haven't taken a picture, do I actually even remember it that well? If it wasn't like a really moving, dynamic experience. I mean,

• 12:53Jay Shetty?

  when you think about memories, what are your, like, I guess, what are your favorite, some of your favorite memories? Uh, personally or professionally that stay strong, that you feel are so crystal clear that you could feel them again?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  I hate to admit this, but I've come to understand that the memories that support what I think my identity is.

• 13:16Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  It's interesting that you even brought up the monk thing and how you kind of lost an identity. And in order to do that, you almost had to lose the memories, which makes sense to me because you're like, you've lost the plot points that led to your conclusion that you were Jay Shetty, whatever you thought you were at that point. And I have been in a business where, uh, and, and this isn't unique to me, but, but it a little bit it is only because I acted and I also wrote, I, I was employed as a writer as much as an actor. And then also I directed for a few years. So I was always kind of juggling like, oh, am I an actor? No, I'm a writer. It's not working out as an actor. I'm a writer.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  And then, oh my God, I'm a writer director. That's what I am. And so, and then as those things either failed or succeeded, I'd, I'd have that identity a little longer. And then all of a sudden I was a podcaster and now I'm considering a, an identity. Now, of course, this is all work related. But now my identity is like, uh, me weirdly, you know, I have a show, I have a podcast where it's just me. And as I do that longer, I'm kind of less interested in all the other identities I had. And then of course, the, the crowning jewel of identities for me is, is, uh, a father. So. This Sunday, it'll be nine years that I'm a dad. And then that kind of just overtook all the other ones gracefully and thankfully,

• 14:39Speaker 01

  where that one feels like bedrock. You know, that feels like son or sibling, whatever. And, and I'm, and I had no clue how much I needed that. Cause I wasn't willing to go be a monk for three years and find out who I actually was without any of these connections. So, yeah, it was just a great relief to have something that I would define myself around other than work, which is fickle and good and bad and all those many things. But so, so for memories, I'm probably inclined to tell you all the steps that led to me getting unpunked

• 15:17Speaker 01

  or all the steps that led to me being a class clown or, you know, and then even weirder than all this, because you, we also touched on your life making sense now at this point. I had the ultimate moment of that while hosting Top Gear, which I've done for the last two years, where my other side hustle was always motorsports. That's all I really ever want. I just, if I could have been a race car driver, that would have been it.

• 15:41Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  So I've spent all this time at racetracks and racing and riding motorcycles and doing all this stuff. And there was just a moment, uh, shooting one particular episode of Top Gear, where I drifted this Dodge Hellcat around a dirt oval track in Arizona all day long, dead sideways. It was a blast and I left and I thought, my God, it all makes sense. Like I went into improv, the show's not scripted. I was, all I wanted to do is drive fast and crazy and I wanted to be in camera. And by God, now at this vantage point, then 46, I was like, oh, it all makes sense. But certainly it never made sense en route to there. That was a long answer.

• 16:26Jay Shetty?

  That was a great, I mean, that's what podcasts are for, right? So that, that was a great, yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I, I find that fascinating too. And, and what I really appreciated where you started off was, and it was actually very reassuring for me, which I appreciated was I, I kind of went that too. I went through being a, a student and a South Asian person in England, who had certain aspirations to then living as a monk and then to leave being a monk, which has a very clear identity shift.

• 16:57Jay Shetty?

  And then being like, well, I'm a monk. And then I went back into the world of corporate to pay the bills and survive and in management.

• 17:07Jay Shetty?

  And and then now in media where we do so much in media. And and it's almost like I I feel like for a long time I was juggling those two is like, well, I'm married now too. And they all seem to be Ms. As well, like married monk, media, management. And I go, you know, which one am I? And it was the same thing as you said, that I really feel now I'm at a point where I've just accepted that I really enjoyed the paradoxical experience of my life. And I appreciate and acknowledge each part of those experiences equally. I'm really grateful that I got to have my time in the monastery and what I learned from there, which is foundational to the work I do today.

• 17:49Jay Shetty?

  But at the same time, I love the fact that now I'm in media and I get to apply it in a completely different direction. And I love being married. I really enjoy the learning process of what that looks like. And then the management part has been so useful from a professional standpoint. And it's like you said, you get to being you. And I guess my question is like, how long did it take you? Or what was some of the inner workings of learning to accept and give yourself the permission to be all of them, none of them, some of them, a part of them? Because I still feel we live in an industry where or or not even in an industry, we live in a world where it's like, well, what do you do? And it's your job title. And and I was saying to my

• 18:30Jay Shetty?

  I was saying to my PR team the other day, I was like, I'd be so much happier if they just put my mission as my lower third and not my title, because my title doesn't really say much about who I really am. And so, does that make sense?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  It does. And in fact, I I'm always a little curious how embracing people are of a title that they also know millions of other people have as a title. So what is it? Now, granted, I just said I'm a father, which is, you know, whatever, a third of the country, but. I'll give you the one that is a pet peeve of mine is like people on their social media. It'll say liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican. And my, I guess I'm just, I'm too insatiably in search of being unique for that to be satisfying for me. Like, what could it say about me if, if all I've done is carved 300 million people into two groups? It'd be no different than writing male. Like, who am I? I'm male. What does that mean?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  You know? Anything where half of the country can fit into it, I don't know why that's of interest in describing yourself. But me embracing me, I, through insecurity, of course, but, but through insecurity, I chose a very specific route through junior high, high school, which was I'm punk rock. I'm a skateboarder, I'm a snowboarder, I'm punk rock. Well, and again, stemming from insecurity, which is I couldn't, I didn't think I could pull off the other thing. Like, I was looking at everyone in there, they didn't have colics, they could have this perfect middle part, I couldn't do it. Their parents could afford Jordans, mine couldn't, so I couldn't do that. And this was a kind of a weird, I know what it read as, it reads as confidence, which is great, because I actually kind of backed myself into being confident.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  So I was, you know, mohawk, crazy clothes, combat boots, because I wanted to send a message like, I'm not playing that game, so you can't evaluate me by those rules. That was what the insecurity part was. And then I got like positive reinforcement for that. And that kind of, you know, that's remained a little bit in me that when I wrote, it didn't take me any time to find my voice. I just, I wrote as if no one was ever gonna read it, and if they did read it and didn't like it, I didn't care. Acting was different, because I certainly was like, I had heroes. I wanted to be Bill Murray, or Chevy Chase, or Will Ferrell. That took a minute, and that's an interesting story in itself, is I happened to do a movie

• 20:56Speaker 01

  that was entirely improvised, just before I got cast on Parenthood. So. I couldn't have done a character, maybe other people could have, I couldn't have done a character and have improv sincerely, an entire movie. I just thought, I got, I'm just gonna have to be as close to myself as I can, so that I can speak in my own voice in improv. And that was a kind of breakthrough for me, cuz I watched it and I was really kinda happy with it, and other people thought it was really good, and it's what made me then go, I'm enough. I don't have to have an accent, I don't have to have this, I don't have to, I'm enough, which is a hard thing to get to. I remember reading, I quote this all the time on my show, which is, I was reading an

• 21:39Speaker 01

  interview with Nicolas Cage, who I was obsessed with as a kid. He was my actor, that's who I would wanna be, he was nuts. And he said it was not until he did the movie Face Off, and he and Travolta swapped faces, so inevitably, they had to do impersonations of each other. And he said, he didn't know until he watched John Travolta do an impersonation of him, that he actually was unique enough to even impersonate. And I thought, how could Nicolas Cage, one of the most unique performers, have not known that until he witnessed that? And so, it can happen to people, right? We don't ever feel like we're enough. And then, the other thing I think that happened in my life, which is significant, is that

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I joined a 12-step program 18 years ago to get sober, and I got a ton of practice talking about my shortcomings, my failures, my fears, my, and, and it's a unique experience, because it was met always with understanding, no judgment, compassion, unity. And I don't know how you could get those hours of practice without that, I'm just not sure. So, I think that program helped me just be me and not be terribly worried about it.

• 22:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you, I don't think there's a substitute for that practice, that-

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a question?

• 23:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Are you just a romantic? Cuz at first, I think, the commitment to go be a monk for three years is insane. I loved worldly pleasures, I wanted to make love to everyone, I wanted to drive fast cars and have people give me approval. So at first glance, it would be an impossible endeavor for me. I just couldn't do it. And I assume too, there's a hierarchy and people tell you what to do. I would hate that. But there's also a part of me that would had a romantic fantasy about what it would have been. And that it would have been a bold and historic decision. Like I had that type of ego where I would have like,

• 23:39Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do something no one would do. So what on earth got you to leave the worldly world and be willing to do that?

• 23:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, thank you for that question. I think for me, if I'm honest about it at the time, and it's something you actually touched on a couple of seconds ago, which we haven't dived into yet. But it was, I was at the same, and same as you, I resonate with that. I loved approval, validation. I had lots of girlfriends. I was, you know, all the rest of it. I was born and raised in London, so I lived a very normal life. And I, the only thing that was fascinating to me at the time was rags to riches stories. So my dad had started giving me biographies because he was scared I wasn't reading, because I never liked fiction growing up. I love nonfiction. I've never been a huge fiction fan. And my dad was the person who kind of, either he knew that or didn't know that,

• 24:31Jay Shetty?

  but he started giving me biographies of famous people, autobiographies of people. And so I read like Gandhi and Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, and this was all in my teens. And so I was fascinated by people who'd shifted culture or made differences in the world. But I was also fascinated by money and CEOs and entrepreneurs and athletes and actors. And so I would go, and this is before podcasting and YouTube. So I would go to my college and hear speakers who were invited to talk about their careers or their journeys. So you'd go to a physical event, sit in the audience and listen. And I met at that time, so many different people. And one of the person that I heard speak was the monk that I end up writing about in my book. And his name's Goranga Das and I ended up spending time with him.

• 25:16Jay Shetty?

  And here's the thing, Dex, that it was like, at that age in my life, I was 18 years old. I'd met people who were rich. I'd met people who were famous. I'd heard people who were successful and beautiful and attractive. But I don't think I'd met anyone who was truly happy and content. Now, whatever that meant at age 18, right? Like, not that I knew what that even meant, but at least at that age. And from him, I felt a sense of, and by the way, there was nothing externally attractive about this man. He was Indian, he had a thick Indian accent, he was wearing robes, but I was so attracted to him.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 25:53Jay Shetty?

  And I was like, what is it? Like, why am I attracted to this guy? And I didn't even want to go. I mean, I don't know how much you know the story, but I've told this often. I told my friends who invited me to the event that I would only go if we went to a bar afterwards, because I was just uninterested in monks or spirituality. And so I went.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you said contentment. I was not in search of contentment at 18. I wanted chaos.

• 26:16Jay Shetty?

  And neither was I. I was a rebel. I'd been, you know, just to give you a bit of a background, I was, I'd been suspended from school three times. I was a rebel. I was involved in all sorts of the wrong circles. And here I am randomly at a monk talking and thinking, this is going to be the biggest waste of time. But I felt an attraction and I said to him.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Can I ask one really quick question too?

• 26:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  I don't know what the, they say, for lack of, I don't know exactly. Are you Indian or Pakistani?

• 26:43Jay Shetty?

  I am Indian, yes, yes.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Indian, okay. I don't know what the second or third generation Indian experience is in London. I only know somewhat what it's like here in the States from Monica.

• 26:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course, of course, yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  I guess my first thought is, were you running from or embracing your ethnicity at that age?

• 27:03Jay Shetty?

  I would say that London, I feel that the South Asian community or Indian community in London is, not that my parents had this, but by the time I was there, it's more embraced into culture. So I would say in my primary school, elementary school, I was bullied for being Indian. But then by the time I was in high school, I was surrounded by Indians. And so, so that was kind of like my experience where I would, I would say I was pretty neutral. We weren't doing either, because you were kind of embraced, but kind of bullied. It was kind of in between.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  That makes sense, because I'm just imagining, had that speaker. Come to Monica's College, University of Georgia, she would have run for the hills. She would have been like, don't, I don't want anyone to connect my otherness with this person's otherness.

• 27:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  So that wasn't at play. Okay. I was just curious about that.

• 27:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, no, no. It's a good question. Anyway, but yeah, that was the reason that I would say that it was as simple as like what you were saying about race car driving or Will Ferrell, and I want to dive into that idea. It was as simple as this person at this point in my life is the most inspirational person I've met. And I want to know how they got there. So I'm going to study their life. I'm going to spend time with them if I have the opportunity. And after doing that for three years, where I would spend my vacations and Christmas holidays with him in India and spending time with him. I was just like, this is what I want to do with my life. So, and then I went and actually lived as a monk for three years. So it was study, it was research, it was intrigue, it was curiosity and it wasn't.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Do you feel like he had a magic?

• 28:35Jay Shetty?

  Uh, he still does to this day. Like, yeah, he's, he's still a monk. He's amazing. And he's, he still has a magic about him. Uh, which, which hasn't worn off for me for sure.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Because it's interesting because there can even be within something as a steward or um as, as simplistic, there can still be some aggrandizement, like uh I want more, right? So I think all the things you listed that you were previously interested in is similar to me. Like I want more. I've had this experience. I want, I want, I really want it all. Like whatever the is an option on this ride through planet earth, I want to experience it. So I can imagine if I, I thought like, oh my God, this person has magic.

• 29:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  You know, I remember hearing crazy stories. I'm sure they were just stereotypical, uh, what would you call them? Like Arcadian fantasy archetypes of spiritual people where it's like, oh, they can soar with an eagle. And when I would let myself imagine, like I'd dedicate myself to something if I could embody an eagle and fly around. You know, I'm bummed there's no hot women and uh really cool cars on the scene, but I might trade that off to be able to transcend this bot.

• 29:45Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Talk a lot about intentional decision making and that extends to the practical stuff too. Like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 30:20Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality. So you can shop with more confidence.

• 31:02Jay Shetty?

  And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients.

• 31:47Jay Shetty?

  They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I think it was, right? It was the, I was so deeply in awe of someone's presence and energy. And I didn't even know what those words meant at that time. But it was such a deep attraction that my attraction for other things was dimmed in the light of that. And that's what I realized, that it's not that those other attractions just disappeared. It's just that they were dimmer in light of that attraction. I guess with you, what were you referring to then? When you were talking about like having people you look up to or when you mentioned certain names?

• 32:29Jay Shetty?

  And I think there was something in there around that idea that we all have of wanting more, but also seeing more in others. Was that, where were you going with that thought?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Well, there's a bunch of them. So like, and they're always, if you really look at it, they're probably always linked to insecurities of mine and/or some pride in something I think I have. So with Nicolas Cage, I think I was so drawn to him as an actor because I was like, this guy is, he's fine looking. You know what I'm saying? He's not gorgeous, he's not unattractive, he's just fine. I think he's getting by because he's tall. And so I thought, maybe I could do that too. I'm not, I was not the cutest kid in my school ever. I wasn't, you know, but I was tall, that kind of worked enough. And, and he was certainly nuts. Like he was, he would make crazy choices in movies, he'd do crazy characters.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  And I thought, okay, that seems achievable for what I'm working with. And then like on an aspirational front, you had like Bill Murray, who I don't think there's ever been a performer I've seen that is as comfortable in their skin as Bill Murray is. Like whatever you felt about the person you studied with, I look at him and I was like, my, I still do. And I think, God, if I could feel as comfortable in my body as he seems to, that must be, you know, an elating experience. And so he was maybe more aspirational. And then Will Ferrell was more just like. The greedy pig in me like, oh, this guy dominates.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  You can't hold a candle. If you're in a scene with him, you might as well close your eyes the whole time. No one's gonna look at you. You don't even need to be in your wardrobe. He's just so dominant and hysterical. And then in winning, every movie's opening number one. I know what he's getting paid. You know, so all that like greedy pig side of me was attracted to maybe his status. That's maybe a great way to say it. Both a total admiration for his skill level, which I don't even possess. But I think the status appealed to me like, oh, that would be it. If you could walk into a studio and go, hey, man, I don't know what to tell you. Here's the idea. It's me in the seventies as a newscaster. And that's all you gotta say. And they're like, yes, here's the checkbook. That's like the dream. So maybe that, yeah. So all sorts of facets of my personality probably drove

• 34:51Speaker 01

  me to admire or try to, you know, aim towards those people.

• 34:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And with the, and with the 12 step program and that journey too, like, what was it like that first time? And my, my more understanding of that journey comes through one of my dear friends, Russell Brand, because he, he speaks about it often as well. And me and him shared the same meditation teacher. And so that's how I got to know him a long time ago. And so I, I, that's, that's my only knowledge of it. So apart from that, I, you know, I've only learned about it through him. But with that experience, what was it like that first time? Because I love what you said. It was, it was so interesting to me because I've never heard anyone say that. But the practice of having vulnerable conversations about your flaws in a space that is non judgment based and

• 35:39Jay Shetty?

  non critical. What was it like that first time when you saw that happening around you? Like, did you look at it and go, well, this can't be real? Or because we've never experienced that? Or did you look at it and go, oh, this is easy. I can be an open book? Like, how, how did that feel for the first time? Because I'd say, most people have never really been in a room that looks like that, unless they are going on the 12 step program, right?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  That's such a huge question. First of all, my, my father got sober when I was 14. So I had some loose knowledge of it. I had gone to meetings with him. I knew a lot about it. That in its own way became a hurdle to me because that was virtually like my Catholicism. We weren't a religious family, but I know, no one, or people like me, don't want to just take the religion they were handed, you know, it's just, I don't know. So that it was a hurdle in some ways, but when I went there and this again is is about me. I can't really answer to why it appeals to other people, but I have this deep skepticism about people in general. Because of my childhood, there's a lot of distrustful people. I have a really overly healthy skepticism.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  So if I had walked into AA and there was a leader of AA, I would have been out. If there was a way to move up in AA, I would have been out. If there was any money associated with AA, I'd be out because soon as those things are on the table, I'm obsessed with intentions. I have, I cannot feel safe and comfortable until I think I've accurately evaluated your intentions. So the magic of that place to me is almost structural. I don't know how this thing has existed for 80 years without a president or, you know, a CEO or anybody, because had I gone and there was a leader, right? And I heard other men share vulnerably, I would have immediately thought, oh, they're trying to impress this guy.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  So what I've deduced is that this guy likes vulnerability. This guy's probably perverse in some way, or maybe he wants leverage on people or he wants collateral. That's why he's encouraging everyone to dump their secrets. So I couldn't have done it. I mean, just the simple fact that no one there can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All they can do and all I can do is share my experience, my strength and my hope. That's all it is. So I think just that neutral, no one's incentivized, no money, no hierarchy. That's why it was magic for me.

• 38:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's special. That that's really amazing because when you think about that, as I said before, that's super rare in the world for people to have a space like that to go to.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  I don't know what it is, to be honest, because even the church, I can be really skeptical of that. I think, obviously, I think there's, there's some continuum of religions, world religions, where less are hierarchical, less are money driven. But certainly, soon as you've got an intermediary between this book everyone believes in, and you, I don't like that. I'm out for any, any system that has someone that has to interpret a book we can all read.

• 38:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  I don't trust that. Why would that be necessary? Again, but that's I can own my own baggage. That's, you know, I, I, I, I'm a distrusting person out of the gates.

• 38:53Jay Shetty?

  How, how have you, I'm fascinated by that. And, and I don't, I, again, I don't, um, I, I don't think that's just a baggage thing. I think there's, there's triggers and there's baggage, right? There's both like there's, it's not that what you're seeing is not also true. There is truth in what you're seeing and then there's truth in the trigger. So it's, it's both hands. But when I look at, when I'm really interested in knowing how you as a more skeptical person or untrusting person have found an ability to build trust in a relationship with your wife, in a relationship, I don't, and again, I don't know you that way. So I'm, I'm projecting and you can fill in the right details, with business partners,

• 39:36Jay Shetty?

  with, with people in your life, with even directors you work with who are giving you advice on how to portray a character. Like, can you walk us through a journey of trust from the Dax Shepard perspective of going from being someone who has skepticism, a healthy skepticism, as you said?

• 39:54Speaker 01

  That's a great question because I'm most comfortable telling you about things I've overcome. Like, I'm happy to tell you I haven't drank in 18 years. Like, I'll tell you all about how I figured out how to do that, right? I also want to say, and this is why your, your, your choice to be a monk perplexes me because I was only open to that radical change. Let, let me just say, there's a bunch, God's mentioned a whole load in that big book. And I, that's a big trigger for me. But I wanted to die less than I want to say God. It may be the only thing, to be honest. So, you know, it's a great motivator for change when you actually come to terms with the fact that the other option's death. So

• 40:37Speaker 01

  every other option for me is probably a little less painful than death.

• 40:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  So I start from there. I'm not someone who's, who's quick to listen to other people and believe that what they said is working. It's really newly being explored. Like, I'm just newly in therapy to actually confront this. Is do, do, who do I really trust? What allows me to trust people is not healthy, is I actually, I think, I'm wrong sometimes, but I'm actually very, very good at assessing intention. Because I've lived this way for so long, I'm pretty good at walking into a room and figuring out what everyone in there's motive is. And there are a lot of motives that don't trigger me. So I don't mind, like, you know, it gets tricky when you're, I hate this word, but famous.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  If you're on TV, there's going to be a dynamic around you with how people act towards you. And you can find yourself questioning like, oh, is this person really like me? Are they just trying to perhaps get in my circle so they can elevate their own thing? And then somehow you come out on the other side as like, that's not even the right question to ask. Is this relationship beneficial to me? Do I enjoy it? If this person ends up getting the thing they want, does that affect me in any way? No, doesn't. And do I enjoy them? Like, I gotta get out of, sometimes I can recognize the intention and then just step over it like, and it doesn't matter. Yeah, I have intentions. We all have intentions. But there are intentions,

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I don't mind, and there's ones that I mind. But with my wife, there was a super, super specific thing, which was, my family was single mom, three kids. The way you showed you loved each other was to never, ever be a drain on one another. That was the ultimate way is to be self-sufficient. We were all over, overworked, underfunded, and what you could do is never suck on anyone else. So when you get sick in my house, no one cares.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  And that was not Kristen's experience, right? So there was a one time in particular, like, they were kind of stacking up. And she said, will you get me a water? We're both sitting on the couch. Now, if I'm standing next to the sink, and you say, get me a water, that makes sense. But the notion that I would get up off the couch and get you a water, when you two are next, that was, I had to bring it up. I was like, I'm sorry, I don't, this is crazy to me that you would ask me to do something that would take me just as much effort as you, and you're the one that's thirsty. I'm not thirsty.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  And she's like, well, God, oh, in my family, that's how we do it. Like, some days you have energy and you don't mind getting everyone. You make the dinner, everyone else is tired. And then the other days you're tired, they make the dinner. It's all symbiotic and it all works.

• 43:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  And I'm like, trying to buy into this. I'm actually trying to figure out, no, is she just lazy? And like, I'm setting a pattern in this relationship where I'm gonna wait on her hand and foot. Cause that's off the table.

• 43:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  And I honestly, I had to ask myself the question, is this person out to harm me? Or do I truly believe this is a good person? And this is just how she operates.

• 43:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  And I don't know that I really ever asked myself or forced myself to think of it in that way. And I concluded, and this was like 14 years ago, she's a good person. She's gonna do things that I think are weird and blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, my diagnosis, my verdict is this is a good person. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn to work through all those other things. Cause I'm gonna make that conclusion now. Now, whether she is or not, it kinda doesn't matter. I decided that.

• 44:13Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  And that has allowed me to cohabitate with her for a very long time. Which is not to say I won't think she's out to destroy me sometimes, cause I also lapse into that.

• 44:22Jay Shetty?

  Of course you will, of course you will. And I, I, I think that's a healthier way to make it. I, I love what you said there though, because I've, I've often, I've never really had this conversation with anyone before. And, and I, I think the same. I think I have a strong intention radar and I'm, I'm highly aware of people's intentions in my periphery. And not, I think I've, I've had it for a long time. And I don't think I've ever had this conversation with anyone before, because I've, I've never heard anyone actually say that. And, and when you said that, I was wondering, how do you, what are the things you're looking out for when you are? Because I think that's something a lot of people struggle with, right? I think a lot of people are listening to us right now would say, well, Dax and Jay, like, I'd never know.

• 45:05Jay Shetty?

  Like, I thought this person was amazing and then they screwed me over. Or, you know, this person was like my business partner and we were building. And then all of a sudden they changed. And I'm wondering whether you would say, actually, no, I could tell that intention was always there. It's just that it manifested later. Yeah, talk to me how, how you assess intentions so that our audience can think about that too for themselves.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Well, let's start with, okay, so you just said you got bullied in elementary school.

• 45:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  So you were in situations, I'm sure, where you were misled. You thought someone was your friend and then all of a sudden they turned their back on you because these other dudes who were cooler and to elevate or lower themselves, right?

• 45:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you a specific story because it's it as soon as you said that, this memory came like shooting back. So I was the dorky, geeky, overweight Indian kid in elementary school. And the toughest kid in school became my best friend for some reason. I have no idea why. And so it was Jay and Ian, Ian was his name, and Ian became my best friend at school. And he would protect me from the bullies and he would defend me. And I don't, I have no, I still don't know why I should ask him. I know I have him as a Facebook friend, so I need to go and ask him my why. And so he'd really protect me and defend me and I, and I, and I never felt an ego. I was like, wow, like he, that's so nice of him. And then what happened is that one of the girls told him when we got older, I think we were in like

• 46:26Jay Shetty?

  fourth grade, yeah, probably at fourth grade. And one of the girls who was kind of dating him or whatever dating looks like in the fourth grade. She said to him, she goes, well, you know, Jay's been talking crap about you. And that wasn't true. I would, I would never do that. It's not my vibe. And he was, she's some, for some reason, I don't know what it was. I have no idea why. She told him, she was like, Jay's been talking crap about you. And just so you know, I wanted you to be the first to know. And, you know, he's been doing it. I don't know, this conversation's happened. All of a sudden, I see my best friend at school storm out of the canteen, walk right up to me while I'm playing football, soccer with a bunch of my friends, onto the big field that we had at school. And he punches me in the face.

• 47:09Jay Shetty?

  He rips my shirt, pushes me, punches me in the face again. I've got, I, I'm on the floor going, Ian, what is wrong with you? He's just like punching me away in the fourth grade. And, and afterwards, I remember the most embarrassing thing. My mom drives me to his mom's house after school for him to apologize to me. And so anyway, when you said that.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  That's an Indian mom move right there, right?

• 47:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, when you said that, that was the first memory. I've never shared that memory anyway. That was the first thing that came to my mind. And anyway, so I will give you back the intentions thing. Let's go.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Well, and without getting bogged down in, you know, my trauma off, just, you know, I was molested at a young age. And so once that happens to you. And it's only one of many things that happened to me. You have to recognize that your worldview where people are generally nice and kind and helpful is incomplete.

• 48:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  That there are other people who are acting one way to you and, and building trust with you because they have an ulterior motive. I also had a slew of step dads. Some of them were terrible, you know? So, once you recognize that there are people, now I think I'm skewed in how many people there are, but there are sheeps and wolves. And once you learn there are wolves, you know, you come, you become pretty preoccupied with it. So, I mean, it's a weird thing to pass on to people what they should think about. But, I mean, in the simplest sense, you should be able to tell yourself what the people around you want. You should be able to recognize what people want. How do you know what they want? Well, what do they talk about?

• 48:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Who do they hate? That's always a real big clue into what they want. People generally hate people who have what they want. They think it's some other thing, but in reality, they're jealous. They feel outclassed, maybe they don't have the talent to be this person. So they pick the four things that are disgusting about them and they go on incessantly about those things. So you can pretty much discern what people want, I think. And then you just have to ask yourself, do I think them wanting that is going to get in the way of this friendship? Is it going to get in the way of this relationship? Is, am I going to be someone that, that triggers them because I have what they want? That's an important thing to know. Again, it doesn't have to lead to, because again, no one's clean. We all want something.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  I don't claim to not want anything.

• 49:31Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  If, if you and I hung out, like your wife is maybe the most striking person I've, at least ever seen on Instagram. I mean, she's so absurdly beautiful. I will want her to validate me if we meet in some way. I'm not asking her to cheat. I'm not going to cheat, but I can tell you, I need to leave there thinking, yep, I made an impression on her.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Now you may chalk that up to this guy's gonna put on a good show for us, which will be the case. I'm gonna put on a show for you and you may go, she's not gonna cheat on me and he's not gonna cheat on his wife. So all's fun. I'm gonna be the beneficiary of this, but that's, that's what I will want in that situation.

• 50:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  It can be inane, it can be benevolent, it can be anything, but I do, I think you're, you'd be naive to think that everyone doesn't want something.

• 50:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  And then you're kind of grading their history. Do they have a history of, you know, breaking norms and laws to get what they want? Now you're in a totally different bracket as well.

• 50:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. The reason, the reason why I think that is such a brilliant answer is because I think we still live in a binary world where we generally believe, of course, I'm completely generalizing right now. This is not statistically proven, but we're not trying to do that, is that we generally believe that people either want something or they don't want something. And you just established-

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Good and evil.

• 50:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Good and bad.

• 50:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And you just established, you're like, well, actually Jay, pretty much everyone wants something and it's more important to accept that and then figure out what that is, rather than live in this world of like, I can trust this person because they don't want anything and I can trust this person. I can't trust this person because they do want something, right? Does that-

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that, that, I think the, the kind of pragmatic or productive outcome is generally when you find people that want the exact same thing as you and it's not finite.

• 51:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  So if it's a role in one movie and you both want that, that's ripe for, for trouble.

• 51:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  But if we both want something, we can both have, this is a great foundation for a friendship because this is what we will do. This will be the activity. So like you'll find, as I said, I can talk from morning to night. My friends love hypotheticals and, and moral issues and like, I wanna be invigorated and I wanna play. And if I find someone who else loves to play, well, that's awesome. That's a great foundation.

• 51:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think I, I, I think what I value in reflecting back of what you're saying is I just like, and I think this was part of the monk thing. And, and actually more becoming that allowed me to be this way more was I just like exposing myself with as much randomness as possible, or like extremes as possible, or different people as possible, because I, I just feel like I would never, if you asked me what I wanted to be when I was five years old, or 15, or even now, when I look back at it, I would never have said the word monk. I didn't even know that the word existed. I didn't have any affinity towards it. So I start thinking now, I'm like, well, wait

• 52:40Jay Shetty?

  a minute, if I could never conceive that because I'd never met someone who was that, then how many ideas exist in the world that I can't conceive because I have not met someone who has played around with that idea or that thought. And so when I, when I reach out to someone like you and, and, and I look at, we don't, I don't know, I don't think we have a lot in common apart from having a podcast.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I bet we have a ton in common.

• 53:04Jay Shetty?

  We, we probably have, we probably have a fair bit in common, but at least, I don't know, mate, mate, mate, I'm looking forward to figuring out what we do.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  It's just what, what do we, what do we count as in, as in common? Like, no, I'm not, um, I'm not a brown person living in a white world. I'm not, I'm not a monk. I'm not, I don't live in wherever you live. Ah, Hui, Hui, the fact that we both have shows where we talk to people probably says way more about you and I than any of those other things.

• 53:32Jay Shetty?

  Fair enough.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  You know?

• 53:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  But, but I love what you're saying because I don't personally give advice. I did, it's not how AA works. All I do is I share who I am and

• 53:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  you hear something in there that you think you might apply, great. But I'm not one to tell people, and I have nothing prescriptive to say to anyone. Other, I will often say though, I have been very grateful that my identity has been flexible.

• 54:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  And I think, I do think a lot of people could benefit because you just made the greatest point, which is you didn't know a monk was an option. So if you don't know what every single option is, don't be so locked into the one thing because there might be a better option. I didn't know what, there was no such thing as a podcaster. So 20 years ago, I couldn't have aimed at being a podcaster because there wasn't one.

• 54:24Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  But my identity is flexible enough that it's like when, when I'm in the river and it's flowing in my direction, I'll stay in it, you know?

• 54:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. No, I'm glad that resonated. Yeah. For me, for me, that's, that's what it is. So I'm always trying to find like, oh, even, even also, you know, a while ago, I realized that sometimes they were necessarily not newer ideas, but they were deeper ideas. And so I was like, let me stop looking for a new idea, but let me look for how I can deeper, deeply understand an idea because, and that's what I'm hearing from you when you're churning stuff with your friends. How do you, how have you found a way to be playful with the people around you where you're able to entertain different thoughts without feeling forced to pick a side, defend, or make someone think a certain way? Because I think that's a healthy conversation to have because I, I love the idea of, so I, in one sense, I have a very

• 55:17Jay Shetty?

  clear philosophy of life because of my time as a monk. I think there are certain tenets that I ascribe to, but I also think that that time gave me an openness to accept that this idea should be able to be upgraded at any time. So if someone can give me something to upgrade my philosophy of life, I should accept it because it would be ridiculous to say, no, I know the truth and everything else is false. So I like entertaining two ideas. How have you encouraged and how do people around you learn to entertain two ideas at once that are seemingly contradictory, but allow them both to live?

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would imagine you and I both love that, you know, one of the crowning measurements of intelligence is being able to hold two conflicting ideas and two conflicting feelings and emotions and that.

• 56:05Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I feel bored out of my mind if I don't have some conflict in my head of thought, of emotion, all that stuff. I just am bored. I mean, it might just be as simple as me being an, you know, an activity freak, whatever it is. I will say my mother was. Genius. I think I had two pretty informative experiences that have led me to where I'm at, which is one is my mother. This would always happen. Two kids would die in a drunk driving accident in my town and the town would be furious at the driver and the poor, or maybe the victim of the other thing. My mother would always, her first thing would be like, oh,

• 56:46Speaker 01

  the poor parents of both those kids, that poor kid driving. You know, they handed out cigars for both those little kids when they were born and they're both here. She'd feel bad for perpetrators of crimes as much as she did the victims of crime. That's a bizarre, I don't know where she got that, but I think she always forced me to imagine that there was suffering on like all sides of it. No one's like, that was nobody's best day. And I carried that and I like that and it drives my wife nuts. I forced myself to imagine how the, you know, whatever, they too are a victim. And then secondly, I majored in anthropology. So anthropology is this great way to break your

• 57:28Speaker 01

  thinking because you walk into it with something, let's do the hottest button topic in anthropology, like infanticide. The Inuit used to kill their babies after they were born. This is like, there's no way you're gonna accept that this isn't the most amoral horrific thing ever, but you are required to learn about what leads to that. Don't write it off as evil. Don't write off as good or bad. Why is it they would do that? An anthropologist's job is just to literally find out how they live their life and why they live their life. What is their reason for living their life? And then you come to find out, well, wow, in their culture, only the men can hunt. Okay? Well, you could argue about whether that's right or wrong, but that is the case. You also then

• 58:13Speaker 01

  find out, unlike most hunting and gathering societies, there's no gathering. It's ice. The only thing they're eating is whale blubber. So their culture is also set up that if your child doesn't grow up to provide food for you, you're going to die. So you have to have a boy as your first child. You're then free to have a gal. I'm not saying I condone it, but it's like, there's so much more to this story than infanticide, the headline. And there are societies set up in ways that certain things make sense to those people. So cultural relativism is what it's broadly.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Labeled that way of thinking. And if you can just forget about the conclusion for a minute, can forget about the verdict, the judgment, you might actually learn a load about something. And I just, I think I've taken that with me. That may be the best thing I took out of there is just imagining that my way isn't the only way, that there are some other ways that feel very wrong to me and that might work, might be optimal in places. And then I just read this book. I don't know if you've heard of this book, The Weirdest People on Earth.

• 59:23Jay Shetty?

  Oh, I haven't. That sounds amazing. I have not. That sounds amazing. I need to get that.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  It is mind blowing. It's, it's about how different the brains of people in the West are. They are different.

• 59:34Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  Starting with the simplest thing. Okay. I think I can roll this out in one second. So Martin Luther comes along. He says, there's no way that a priest can tell you how to communicate with God. You can communicate with God. Step one to that is you gotta learn to read. You gotta learn to read this Bible. So he goes on this huge mission to make different populations literate. He's hugely successful. Prior to that, you had like top literacy rate, maybe in Germany was 5%. Martin Luther comes around. Now you've got like 80% of people reading because of Martin Luther. Now, when you read, that changes your actual brain.

• 1:00:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  The structure of your brain. It occupies such a bizarre, it's such a bizarre thing to train your brain to do that you lose some things. So when people learn to read, they they lose some facial recognition skills. They can read less emotions. You know, it altered our brains. So if you start with the knowledge or the acceptance that our brains don't even work the same around the world.

• 1:00:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  How then could all of our conclusions work the same? How can we believe our conclusions are right? Our conclusions are correct for this brain?

• 1:00:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  I don't know that they're, they're, they're accurate conclusions in Samoa.

• 1:00:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  You know, it's, I just, I have such little faith in that any of us really know. And I'm comfortable with that. That's a big, I think, distinction. Some people are very uncomfortable not knowing. I'm very comfortable not knowing.

• 1:00:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  And I'll tell you, if I, I think I get asked this in interviews, like, what have you kind of learned from having interviewed 250 academics or professors, you know, because it's split. It's celebrities, but then it's always academics, professors, whatever. My conclusion is anything you believe in at best, it might approach 80% correct.

• 1:01:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:01:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  I'll have an expert on, they'll lay it out, oh my God, they cracked it. That's it.

• 1:01:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  And then a month later, I have their adversary on, that person lays it out, I'm like, my God, this, this gale's got it. I mean, we are so flashlight in a cave with everything we know. And I just, I don't know, I don't, I don't think anyone should feel so certain about anything. I guess is my conclusion.

• 1:01:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. And that, and that's that hard part because it's like, you need some certainty to make decisions. And then you need the uncertainty to be adaptable. And that's where we all are trying to.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  You should have the humility to say it's a probability.

• 1:01:54Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna make a decision based on this probability. And that's about all you're gonna say, other than I drop this rock and it'll fall. Anything outside of gravity, you're probably making a probability analysis.

• 1:02:06Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And I love what you said about what your mom had that belief growing up. I mean, that was remarkable, like genuinely, that is, that is such a amazing thing to grow up around. I wonder, these ideas, and I know you and Kristen speak so much, so openly about parenting. I'm like, have you, have you, there are, are there some of these ideas which are not like, what I love about this is, is we always hear that, that famous quote of, you know, we should learn how to think, not what to think. And these are always how to think, right? These are how to think, we're not telling, you're not saying, this is what you should think about. How, how are you introducing, or are you introducing some of these concepts or other concepts to, to your kids in parenting?

• 1:02:48Jay Shetty?

  And how's, what's been a successful or unsuccessful transference of ideas?

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Um, I'm incessantly doing that because I don't, I don't have a goal for them. I have preferences, but I don't have a goal for them to not believe in Jesus. I don't believe Jesus is the son of God personally. It'd make my life probably easier with them if I didn't have to go to church with them all the time to be with them, but I actually don't care. All I want them to do is take in every side of everything. I just want them to be hardworking in their thought. I want them to hear both sides with an open mind and an open heart and then do their synthesis. That's all I'm really looking for. In fact, this situation presents itself. So we have family members that are very religious, concerned on not baptizing our children.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  I think performing maybe a baptism in the living room when I wasn't looking. I mean, sincerely, I think that might have happened. Always bringing the Bible for kids, all this stuff. And initially, I'm like, well, don't, please don't pass that on to these little beautiful kids. But then I thought, you know what? I was exposed to all that and I came to whatever conclusion I came to. They're going to be just as able to do whatever they feels right to them. Who cares? They can take on any information. I think critical thought will get them to where they need to be. And the only guardrails I asked, I said, you know what? Indoctrinate them. Please don't introduce the concept of hell or sin. Those are the only two. I do not want a little kid ruminating at night whether or not they're going to end up in a fiery pit.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  I don't think that's useful for anyone. So I just put like two little tiny parameters. Luckily, those people obliged and that they've left that part out. And you know, and then we talk about it. And to me, they seem like they're thinking about every angle of everything. And I guess as a parent, the thing I've learned to do is there's all these opportunities. They're so tempting to teach your kid something always. They're always right in front of you. I feel like my life revolves around atheism. It doesn't, but this happens to be two in a row stories. We have really close friends. They're very Christian. I love it for them. I'm very supportive of it. There are children play together, they're children.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  My daughter was over there and they prayed before dinner and she felt really uncomfortable. She felt nervous, she didn't know what to do. They all knew what to do. She felt out of sorts. She then got nervous that the one child was going to not like her because she didn't believe the same way. And I'm learning this on a ride home and my first thought is to go, well, look at Amy and Ryan and Chris. Uh, your mom and I, we're best friends and we think differently, right? I want to like educate her through this. And then I stopped and I just go like, oh my God, I remember that so much, Lincoln. Oh my God, I remember that. Yeah, I would be at my friend and I just start listing these times that I was in that situation, how awkward I felt. And then I felt like judged and I was nervous.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  They thought I was going to hell and all these things. And I honestly think in that moment that that is the decision I'm proudest about. It's like, I don't need to teach her this. I need her to see this functional human being has gone through all the things she's gone through.

• 1:06:03Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  That's all I gotta do is make her not feel alone in these experiences because that will somehow make her confident. Oh, but it'll all work out.

• 1:06:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  So I've tried my hardest to shift from the lesson and more just sharing the experience with her.

• 1:06:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. I'm so glad you shared that. My wife and I don't, don't have kids yet, so definitely, definitely part of the plan.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  It's so tempting. You want to shortcut them. I do, I want to shortcut them to a four step in AA. Yeah, this can really, you can figure out your fears with this thing. That's what my mom did with me. She just, she would always relate to me and that just, I liked, I like not feeling alone in my experience the most.

• 1:06:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, they need to be able to create a 12 step kids version.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Oh, believe me, oh, they'll get it. They're gonna get it through osmosis.

• 1:06:48Jay Shetty?

  And, and yeah, and I think you do that publicly too, right? Like I know that last year you, you know, you, you spoke about your relapse and, and you were very vulnerable about it. And you're open about it. And I, I wonder, I mean, I guess, are your kids at an age yet where they're able to understand your public profile and external profile? Or not really, they, they don't kind of understand the, like, are you dad and this? Or is it just, are you dad? And, and how does that affect them?

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  You know, what's really funny is, uh, well, first of all, they, they know I'm in AA. Like I leave in the evenings, certain days of the week. And where are you going? I'm going, hey, what's that? Oh, I'm an alcoholic. What's that? Oh, I, if I start drinking, watch out, can't stop. I'm ninth generation alcoholic, you know? They know the whole skinny. They know I relapsed. But what's interesting is the question you're asking is the question I thought about nonstop. Because my experience was my parents weren't famous. My parents also didn't have money. So my obsessions are like, like, what is this doing to them? Blah, blah, blah. And the truth is, and I'm seeing it as like, it's their childhood.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  There's no such thing like, we are inclined to think of their experience relative to another kids. But that's almost irrelevant. Their experience is relative to their own experience and to their maybe sister's experience. The notion that they're feeling something different. Because for me, when I imagine what being the child of famous people would have been like, is a very different feeling. Definitely, yeah. But there is no difference to them. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, sometimes we're driving and mom's on a billboard. They're not impressed with mom. Mom is mom who didn't let them stay up till 10 last night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter. The trickier part is in public, I'm very protective of them. So if you meet me and I'm by myself, I'm a pretty nice guy.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  If you meet me and I'm out with my kids, it's not your time, it's my kids' time. And I'll tell you that. It's not time to take a picture with me. It's not time to talk to me about a movie or about a podcast. It is my children's time right now, and that's whose time it is. So I don't mind having a boundary when it's for them. I have a harder time having a boundary for myself. And I actually enjoy often talking to people who listen to podcasts or whatnot. But I have to explain that to them, right? They can't just see me be very firm with people when they know me to be kind and open hearted to people who don't want something. This goes back to the intention. Yeah, yeah. So if we're bumping into strangers at a restaurant, we're both ordered the steak and it's delicious.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  And I lean over and go, my God, these, they can cook a T-bone here, huh? Like, there's that version of dad. And then there's the version at the airport where it's like, no, thank you, thank you. Like if I could see a camera coming out, it's like you cannot photograph my kids. So I have to then tell them, I'm very protective of you. This is why I don't want your time to be robbed with your dad. I'm going to always protect that. I don't want pictures of you on the internet. I don't want people to know what you look like and go to your school. Like, I don't want, this is what's happening. So I just, I assume rightly or wrongly that they can comprehend everything. And I just tell them, I tell them exactly what's happening in the world when they're in it. Again, from my baggage, my number one issue is being deceived. I hate being deceived. I hate people who try to deceive me.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  It's my number one thing. I hate it. So I just, my only commitment is I'm never deceiving my kids. The second thing they say, wait, how does Santa Claus get in our chimney? And he, how's he getting, there's, you said there's billion, how many billion? Seven billion. He's going to seven billion people. Well, no, he's not going to India because they don't believe in Santa Claus. Why wouldn't he go? And I go, I'm not going to do this to you. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna water down the best part of your brain, which is the critical thinking side, which is saying this does not add up. I'm not gonna do it.

• 1:10:37Jay Shetty?

  That, that's brilliant. I love that. I'm personally just taking notes. This is for me, future me. This is genuinely for future me to write some of these notes down. And I'm not, I'm not joking. I, I mean that.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  And teach them to do something scary. That's my other, I believe in that. Like, so both my kids ride dirt bikes. They're little girls. My eight year old just got a, a very large dirt bike and we just went riding. And like, you can tell your kids they're capable of anything. You have to give them an opportunity to figure out they're capable of anything. You know, you telling your kid, you could be president one day. Hmm, why? What have they done to demonstrate that? Give them an opportunity to be presidential.

• 1:11:16Jay Shetty?

  I, I am so glad you said that. I literally was, I was on the phone to my friend before we, before we, uh, connected. And I, I was saying the same, I was like, he's, he's got a 10 year old. And I was saying, and I don't know why I thought of cold plunges, but I did. And I was like, you should take your kid cold plunging. Like, I was like, you know, he needs to feel like he's, he's achieved something. He's conquered something because we were talking about this. I, something that's really fascinated me. For a long time is I've been trying to at least read as you were saying, read about children and kids and even just humans. But the idea of fragility and and how like overprotecting someone's experience leads to fragility, not strength.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Jay Shetty?

  And and I found that word fragility and fragile so powerful, even more than weakness or or lack of strength or whatever like fragility is really interesting because you go, wait a minute, we thought that if we mollycoddled and protected and and enforced boundaries and barriers that were perfect like laser fields around our kids or around ourselves that then life would be good. I guess, how how do you deal with that poking of deceit? As you said, that was what you hate. As deceit pokes through that uncomfortable barrier that you have with it. How have you learned to be able to navigate it in a healthy way?

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Well, first off, I just think it's hilarious you said that because we've got our daughters to they do cold plunges.

• 1:12:36Jay Shetty?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And by the way, not because we told them to, because we model it. It's like they see mom and dad get out of the hot tub and go make themselves miserable for 10 minutes. They just get curious. And then it becomes competitive. Who's gonna do it? Who's afraid to do it? And then I look and I'm like, my God, these little girls do cold plunges. This is fantastic.

• 1:12:54Jay Shetty?

  So dope. That's amazing.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  I think often you're you're trying to protect. Let me say this. I had a great head start. One, I'm six and a half years older than my sister. My mom worked nights. I I changed diapers with the the safety pins and cloth diapers at six and a half years old. So somehow this six and a half year old did quite a bit of child rearing. And she's alive. Secondly, I majored in anthropology. I'd watch all these amazing documentaries. One of them I remember from Papua New Guinea. The all the kids that are below six, who can't be useful in in digging up yams, are on their own in the jungle. I'm telling you, they are on their own. There are two year olds falling out of trees.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  There's a six year old in charge and they live. So I just walked into it with like, these little things are very resilient. I just, I've seen firsthand, they're pretty resilient. So I think I started with a little more confidence in that way. But again,

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  I just think about what, what moment in time are you delaying this to? So I'm going to handle everything for them now. When is it their turn? Because if, if, if 18 is their turn and you send them out into the world, no one in the world is as nice as I am to them. So why is that going to be the optimum time to fail, to struggle, to be frustrated, to not get help? I regularly won't help them. It seems like maybe cruelty and I'll be like, if you want it bad enough, you'll figure out how to do it. But I want competent kids. That's what I want because I can't go with them everywhere for the rest of their lives to, to mitigate every conflict. I can't do it.

• 1:14:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, even though you'd like to.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  I would love to. It's my impulse.

• 1:14:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Every time they're reaching for something, I want to go grab it. I'm tall.

• 1:14:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  This is like one of my only assets in the house. But no, they gotta get a stool. Go get something for crying out loud.

• 1:14:55Jay Shetty?

  They're gonna keep stretching.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  You can use tools and you can't? And again, they're giving themselves their own confidence. You're not giving it to them. You're not saying, oh, you're so smart. You're so competent. Why are you so competent? But they give it to themselves.

• 1:15:09Jay Shetty?

  And that you just, I mean, that really spoke to me because I think so many kids who or and, and obviously as adults now who heard that, they actually felt that was something they had to live up to as a expectation or an obligation that it's like, you're so smart. So now they had to present.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  With zero practice.

• 1:15:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and so totally, and I, I love that you kept saying it's something you have to give to yourself because that's become something that is, uh, whenever I talk about that, I, I really strongly believe that, that validation, compliments,

• 1:15:47Jay Shetty?

  awareness, understanding. People can help to a certain degree, but ultimately it needs to come from ourselves. Uh, I heard, I saw you going about to say something. I want to let you, I know we're digitally.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Well, I was just gonna say it, it, both are true. External validation works.

• 1:16:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  But it's finite.

• 1:16:05Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  So either you have to be on the treadmill of constantly wowing everyone to get the external validation. Or you can internally validate yourself and that can be permanent.

• 1:16:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Or that can be stable.

• 1:16:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm fascinated to ask you this because I think you'll have a really refreshing perspective. How, because you brought this word up earlier. How have you balanced self-validation and humility? And where do they fit in for you? I'm not saying they're opposites. I'm just wondering how both live in a healthy way for you. Because I think, you know, I think we're living, and I'm interested because of where we've gone. I think we live in a culture right now that's very much like validate the people you love and, you know, like give, tell them that they're smart and tell them that they're beautiful. And then I come from a spiritual culture where humility was considered the most beautiful quality a human could have, like it was.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  The apex virtue or something?

• 1:17:02Jay Shetty?

  Correct, but often it led to low self-esteem as a misunderstanding of humility. And it led to a, you know, a self-deprecating and self-harmful behavior. So I just want to hear your thoughts on that.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  Well, it's an incomplete word, right? Well, first and foremost, I have a friend, an older friend of mine in the program, who often says it's really important to distinguish between humility and humiliation. So like, those aren't the same thing.

• 1:17:31Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  And I also think we all observe a ton of faux humility.

• 1:17:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  And I'm prone to do it. I'll start feeling guilty that, I, look, I've been luckier than most people and I have some guilt about that. I grew up with people who didn't get so lucky. I feel, I have guilt about that. So there can be a faux humility as well. But I think the true humility for me is being honest about my life, which again is a skill I learned in. The 12 set program. If I look at my life and I look at the times I got exactly what I wanted and what it led to versus the times I got the opposite of what I wanted and what it led to. It would not take a smart person to see the pattern that I'm almost 100% wrong, which is really bothering.

• 1:18:22Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  Like, I'm a podcaster because I spent two and a half years of my life directing a movie, Chips, and it didn't do well financially. I didn't know what to do. So I did not get the outcome I wanted. It led to the thing I'm happiest doing, most proud of ever doing. So there you go. If you would ask Dex, what should happen? I would say, oh, that thing should have made $200 million and I should have made three more. And I should have ultimately made $25 million to make the third one. That would have been the, the path, right?

• 1:18:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  It wouldn't have been as good of a path. So I, I know I'm wrong. I'm, I'm, I'm consistently wrong. So I don't have a ton of confidence in my own. You know, even though I am, I tend to be arrogant and I, and I have an opinion on everything. But I also know that I'm also likely to have a different opinion.

• 1:19:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  I, I just know this. I've changed my opinion a bazillion times over the years. So I just, I try at least now to, I propose things. I ask questions. I don't, I try to avoid being definitive about it. I, I just, I wonder aloud. And then often I wonder aloud with another person wondering aloud. And we, we somehow navigate towards something that feels truer.

• 1:19:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love that.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  But it's just, you, I mean, Hawkins, you think you're as smart as Stephen Hawkins? Like, that guy's been disproven five times by new technology. Like, you can't, can you be the toughest guy in the world? You can't. Mike Tyson got beat eventually.

• 1:19:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Uh, everyone gets beat. Everyone's wrong.

• 1:19:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  It, it's an untenable position to try to take.

• 1:19:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Maybe it's my vanity. I'd be too embarrassed to say I know, because I, I'm sure to be proven wrong publicly.

• 1:20:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, absolutely. Time, time is undefeated. And then we hear about timeless realms. And then you go, oh, wait, time's defeated. And so, you know,

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Black holes are supposed to end time.

• 1:20:17Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, exactly. So it's perplexing. But Dax, you've been so generous with your time. I've had so much fun with you. This has been a

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:20:26Jay Shetty?

  This has been a very untraditional episode of On Purpose for many reasons. And that has very much been led by you and who you are and how you approach these conversations. And I really value that because I love being in a and I wouldn't call this uncomfortable because nothing about the conversation was uncomfortable. But I love being in a new, refreshing, like, sparky environment. And that's kind of how this has felt. So

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  And I know you're landing the plane, but I have to add one thing on that topic, which is, I'm sure you're like me, which is, I prepare. So if I am going to interview someone, I know as much as I can know about them. But what I've learned to do and the thing I've come to love is I'll ask them how their drive over here was. That's not on the list.

• 1:21:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  And that leads to nine things that I wasn't trying to steer.

• 1:21:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  And then I enter a state of flow. And really, I've figured out I'm only in this for the state of flow.

• 1:21:22Jay Shetty?

  Yes, I couldn't agree with you more. And that is much better explained than what I was trying to say. So we will take your version. But that's exactly it. You know, yeah, we always prepare, same thing. But I try to get lost. I like getting lost. I think that's, you know, and getting lost is so fun. Because that's where, yeah, that's where you find stuff that you never imagined. So I love that. I thank you. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. So these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. And so, Dax Shepard, these are your final five. Are you ready?

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  This is a tight box for me to be in, but let's do it.

• 1:22:04Jay Shetty?

  This is a tight box. Okay.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  As you just learned.

• 1:22:07Jay Shetty?

  Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever received or heard?

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  I thought someone had stolen an idea of mine, one of the sketches I had at this theater. And I thought it ended up on Saturday Night Live, and that may or may not be true. But someone pulled me aside and said, if you think that's the only great idea you're ever gonna have, you should fight to the end. But if you think you have unlimited great ideas, keep it moving.

• 1:22:33Jay Shetty?

  Oh, that is so, thank you for, thank you for taking the time to think about that because that is refreshing and beautiful. We've not had that before. I love that. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever received or heard?

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  This is a hard one because I don't take advice.

• 1:22:49Jay Shetty?

  I guess, I guess not, and it may not have been said to you. It may have, it may, it may be something you heard someone tell you. It may, and the reason why I like this is I really want a list of pieces of advice.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  Bad advice.

• 1:23:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that, that people can really clearly go, oh, gosh, we hear this more often than we think. And so.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  I guess I'm just gonna give my, what I said to myself at one point, which is, sure, cocaine's addictive, but you're smarter than that.

• 1:23:22Jay Shetty?

  That's brilliant.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Probably the advice I gave myself that proved to be inaccurate.

• 1:23:26Jay Shetty?

  That's brilliant. I love that. All right. Question number three. How would you define your current purpose?

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  My primary purpose is helping people who are dying of alcoholism find sobriety.

• 1:23:41Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  I don't do good on, like, my wife's great at trying to tackle enormous things. I feel very overwhelmed by them. But an individual who calls, I kinda know how to do that.

• 1:23:52Jay Shetty?

  Well, that, that we'll save that for part two because I like that. We'll save that for another time. That, that would be a whole beautiful conversation in and of itself. Question number four, what is something you used to value but no longer have value for?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Status.

• 1:24:09Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. And fifth and final question, I think you'll like this because it sits in with a lot of what we've discussed, but if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, or one habit that someone had to practice every day, what would it be?

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Taking responsibility and apologizing when wrong.

• 1:24:29Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. Dax Shepard, Dax, thank you so much.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  My pleasure. This is a blast.

• 1:24:34Jay Shetty?

  Oh, no, this was so much fun. Honestly, I had a great time and knowing you had a great time makes me feel good too, because I've been looking forward to this one. And like I said, huge fan of the podcast. I recommend everyone who's listening or watching to go, or listening only, sorry, listening, everyone who's listening, to make sure you go and subscribe to Armchair Expert if you don't already listen. And of course, check out Dax on Instagram and tag us both on Twitter and Instagram and on every platform where you're listening, with what resonated with you, what connected with you. I love knowing what stayed with you. I think I find it fascinating to see what items you're going to apply, what you're questioning, what you're reflecting on. And I'm sure Dax would love to see as well. Dax,

• 1:25:16Jay Shetty?

  I thank you for your time, your energy, your patience, your, the stillness you had in answering those last five questions. I love how you were not pushed by the pressure. I really appreciate that. And again, I really hope we get together soon.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.