The #1 Secret Billionaires Know About Success That You Don't | Alex Banayan (Fan Fav)

Fan Favorite: This episode originally aired on June 26, 2018. Alex Banayan dropped out of college to hunt down and ask legends like Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg, Maya Angelou and more how they accomplished their dreams so he could share it with the world. These stories as told in the best-selling book, The Third Door, reframe what most consider “secrets” to success into human journeys of failure and persistence. Business author and one of the youngest VC’s ever Alex Banayan shares the wisdom from his and many others journeys on this episode of Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. SHOW NOTES: Alex breaks down The Third Door mentality and how he used it to fund his dream. [2:37] Alex on how external voices and rejection factored into his journey. [9:23] Alex tells the power and importance of friendship in his success. [17:54] Alex talks about fear within uncertainty and how to work with it instead of against it. [24:06] Alex shares Steven Spielberg’s incredible story of turning rejection into a new path. [28:35] Alex shares the story of Qi Lu and how he redefined the word “luck”. [34:43] Alex touches on insecurities and developing self-awareness. [42:40] Alex reveals the impact he wants to have on the world. [47:05] FOLLOW ALEX BANAYAN: TWITTER - https://bit.ly/2tf2FL1 FACEBOOK - https://bit.ly/2yubDKj https://bit.ly/2yubDKj%20 LINKEDIN - https://bit.ly/2ljSDo1 INSTAGRAM - https://bit.ly/2tnyxgD https://bit.ly/2tnyxgD%20%20 CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Audible: Sign up for a free 30 day trial at https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY1 Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com https://www.vitalproteins.com/ and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Kettle & Fire: Get 20% off your first order at https://kettleandfire.com/impact with code IMPACT Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact Thrive Market: ​​Go to https:thrivemarket.com/impact http://thrivemarket.com/impact for 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! American Alternative Assets: If you're ready to explore gold as part of your investment strategy, call 1-888-615-8047 or go to https://TomGetsGold.com https://tomgetsgold.com/ Tech Unheard: Tune into Tech Unheard from Arm and NPM—wherever you get your podcasts. iTrust Capital: Use code IMPACTGO when you sign up and fund your account to get a $100 bonus at https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu Mint Mobile: If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at https://mintmobile.com/impact. https://mintmobile.com/impact DISCLAIMER: Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5 gigabyte plan required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes & fees extra. See MINT MOBILE for details. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20showjoin me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/callsee if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:https://tombilyeu.com/sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT athttps://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:http://apple.co/impacttheoryapple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=enhttps://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeuhttps://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeuhttps://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:07Speaker 01

  Before we get into the show, here's something worth your time. Every day, animals across the country face abuse, neglect, and cruelty. And every day, the ASPCA shows up. They rescue animals in crisis and provide life-saving medical care. They help animals recover, and they give them the second chance they deserve. But they can't do it alone. Every rescue, every medical treatment, every safe place to heal depends on people who choose to help. If you'd like to be part of that work, visit aspc.org/need. Become a monthly donor today, and you'll help support these life-saving rescue efforts

• 1:52Speaker 01

  and provide the care, shelter, and love these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Again, that's aspc.org/need.

• 2:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Everybody, welcome to Impact Theory. Our goal with the show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right, today's guest is the youngest business author ever signed to Penguin Random House in their 80-year history. He was also widely touted as the youngest VC when he began working for Al Sop Louis at the age of 19. Not bad for a college dropout who, instead of graduating, studied how to hack The Price is Right and used the prize money to fund his dream project, a book called The Third Door, that would end up gaining him nationwide attention. He is a self-proclaimed missionary who has poured himself into the wild quest to uncover how the world's most successful people launch their careers.

• 2:55Tom Bilyeu?

  He convinced an unimaginable group of the world's most extraordinary thinkers to participate in this book, all, by the way, from absolutely scratch. From Bill Gates and Steven Spielberg to Maya Angelou and Lady Gaga, he got them all to agree to contribute their wisdom and the stories of the grit and tenacity that it took to track these impossible-to-reach people down will leave your jaw on the floor. He's contributed to The Washington Post, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, and many other prestigious publications, as well as being named to Business Insider's 30 Under 30 List and being featured virtually by every major media outlet there is. His enthusiasm and collected insights have also turned him into one of the most sought-after speakers around,

• 3:37Tom Bilyeu?

  and he's already presented to Dell, MTV, IBM, Harvard, and many others. Nike said that his ideas pushed their team's leadership, and Apple said that he represents the voice of entrepreneurship. So, please, help me in welcoming the man who chased Larry King through a grocery store and got blacklisted by Warren Buffett, Alex Banayan.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  That was the funniest and the kindest intro, man. I appreciate it.

• 4:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, easy to do. What you did to write this book is insanity, and it's so instructive. And so, I don't normally start at the beginning, but with this, we're gonna have to. What is the Third Door mentality?

• 4:16Speaker 02

  So, after going on this seven-year journey, I realized, on the surface, you know, Bill Gates and Maya Angelou couldn't be more different. At their core, they treat life the exact same way. And the analogy that came to me, because I was 21 at the time, was that it's sort of like getting into a nightclub. So there's always three ways in. There's the first door, the main entrance, where the line curves around the block, where 99% of people wait around, hoping to get in. And then there's the second door, the VIP entrance, where the billionaires and the celebrities go through. And for some reason, school and society have this way of making you feel like there's only two ways in. You're either born into it, or you wait your turn.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  But what I've learned is that there's always, always, the third door. And it's the entrance where you have to jump out of line, run down the alley, bang on the door 100 times, crack open the window, go through the kitchen, there's always a way in. And it doesn't matter if that's how Gates sold his first piece of software, or how Spielberg became the youngest director in Hollywood history, they all took the third door.

• 5:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, when I heard that analogy, I thought, whoa, okay, that actually really makes a lot of sense. Now, for me, that is quite possibly the most terrifying thing. Like, going up to people and doing some of the stuff, like chasing Larry King down through the grocery store and into the parking lot, screaming his name, like, whoa. I like to think I'm pretty hardcore, I don't know if I would have had the gumption to do that. So, you talk about the difference between fearlessness and courage. What is that, and how did you employ it?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  You know, one of the biggest and most surprising lessons I learned on this journey was that I just had this assumption that all these people I looked up to were fearless. You know, Elon Musk or Bill Gates, we just assumed they, you know, have no fear in how they achieve what they've done. But what I've learned is that not a single one of them were fearless. They actually were filled with tremendous amount of fear. So while they weren't fearless, they did have tremendous amounts of courage. And the difference between fearlessness and courage is that fearlessness is jumping off of the cliff without thinking. Courage is acknowledging your fear, analyzing the consequences, and deciding, you still care so much about it, you're gonna take one step forward anyway.

• 6:34Tom Bilyeu?

  What was it that was driving you in all of this?

• 6:39Speaker 02

  You know, when I first started, to understand like why I was going through this crisis at the beginning that led me on this journey was you have to know that I'm the son of Jewish immigrants, which pretty much means I came out of the womb, my mom cradled me in her arms, and then she stamped "MD" on my ass and just sent me on my way. You know, like in 3rd grade, I wore scrubs to school for Halloween. You know, I was that kid. And by the time I got to college, I remember really quickly, you know, I was the pre-med of pre-meds, but I remember lying on my dorm room bed, staring up at the ceiling, and looking at this stack of biology books, feeling like they were sucking the life out of me. And at first, I just wondered, "Maybe I'm being lazy." But then I began to question, "Maybe I'm not on my path."

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Maybe I'm on a path, somebody placed me on it, and I'm just rolling down. So not only am I going through this "what do I want to do with my life" crisis, that's when the question started to evolve too. You know, how did Bill Gates, when nobody knew his name, sell software out of his dorm room? Or how did Lady Gaga, without a single hit under her belt, get her first record deal? These are things they don't normally teach you in school. So I just did what I thought was normal. I just went to the library or went on Amazon and just ripped through books. You know, business books, self-help books, biographies. But eventually, I was left empty-handed. And that's when my very, you know, naive 18-year-old thinking kicked in, and I thought, "Well, if no one's gonna write the book I'm dreaming of reading, why not write it myself?"

• 8:10Speaker 02

  You know, I thought it'd be super simple. I'll just call up Bill Gates, interview him, interview everyone else. I thought it'd be done in a few months. To my surprise, Bill Gates doesn't do interviews with 18-year-old college students. That, I assume, would be the hard part. Or I actually, I thought that would be the easy part. The hard part would be more about how to fund it, because I was buried in student loan debt, I was all out of bar mitzvah cash, so there had to be a way to make some quick money. So, 2 nights before final exams, freshman year, I'm in the library doing what everyone does in the library right before finals. I'm on Facebook.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  So, someone was offering free tickets to The Price is Right. And I swear, I know this is very preposterous, but the first thought was... What if I go on the show and win some money to fund this dream? Not my brightest moment, but I had a problem. You know, not only did I have finals in two days, I'd never seen a full episode of the show before. And I remember, you know, telling myself it was a dumb idea and to not think about it. But I don't know if you've ever had one of those moments where like, an idea just keeps clawing itself into your mind. So to prove to myself it was a bad idea, I remember I was sitting at this little round table in the corner of the library. And I took out my spiral notebook and made the best and worst case scenarios.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  And I remember like very vividly writing, you know, worst case scenarios. Fail finals, get kicked out of pre-med, lose financial aid, mom stops talking to me, no, mom hates me. You know, look fat on TV. There were like 20 cons. And the only pro was maybe, maybe win enough money to fund this dream. And it felt almost as if somebody had tied a rope around my gut and was slowly pulling in a direction. So that night, I decided to do the logical thing and pull an all-nighter to study. But I didn't study for finals, I studied how to hack The Price is Right.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  I went on the show the next day and did this ridiculous strategy and ended up winning the whole showcase showdown. Winning a sailboat, selling the sailboat, and that's how I funded the book.

• 10:17Tom Bilyeu?

  I want to go back to that list, which I think, the pro and con list. So really pretty interesting in your whole story about where your grandfather comes from and, you know, that he was almost killed in Iran during the revolution and he ends up escaping with the family and coming to America. And he was very successful in Iran and he has to start all over here. And all of that sort of feeds into your ethos, at least once he tells you the story. So when you're making that list and you're the weight of your family, everybody wanting you to be a doctor. How was it, like, in your whole story, the thing that I think had to be one of the hardest sayings was mom not talking to me anymore, mom hates me, I dropped out of med school, or pre-med.

• 10:59Tom Bilyeu?

  What was it like for you to buck that and say, well, I'm just gonna do my thing?

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Dude, it feels like you were like with my family during this time because that really was the hardest part. And it's something my friends couldn't really understand. Because, you know, I remember this moment when I was I might have been about like five or six years old and I had this nightmare and you know, I jumped out of bed. It was the middle of the night and I went down the hallway to go to my parents' room and I remember this blue light creeping out from under my parents' room. So I like cracked open the door and stuck my head in and I remember seeing my mom hunched over her, you know, little desk with her old computer, you know, working away in the middle of the night. This is around three or four AM and the next night I woke

• 11:47Speaker 02

  up, jumped out of bed because I was curious and I saw her doing it again and again. And it wasn't until, you know, 10 or so years later that I learned that at that time, my dad's used car lot had gone bankrupt and really our entire family was being kept afloat by my mom.

• 12:06Tom Bilyeu?

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• 12:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now also available in Canada and the UK. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, make sure you tell them that it was on Impact Theory. That's the best way to support the show. I'll call you back. That's the most expensive sentence in business. You mean it when you say it, but by the time you remember, they've already found somebody else. That's why today's episode is brought to you by QUO, spelled Q U O. The business phone that's built so you never miss a call or a customer. QUO. Writes up your calls for you and one click turns any of them into a task with a name and a due

• 13:32Tom Bilyeu?

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• 14:15Speaker 02

  I'm working, you know, these 20-hour days while, by the way, while being a full-time mom.

• 14:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Right.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, being class mom and being part of our school.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  And only then can I realize in hindsight why it was so hard for me. Because when I was setting off on this journey, you know, everyone talks about, you know, taking the leap and going for your dream. And no one talks about the emotional baggage and pain that comes from turning your back on the sacrifices others have made for you.

• 14:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, that's what I want to talk about. What story were you telling yourself? Like, you, you talk about turning the volume up on your dream. I want to know what that really means? Like, what are you saying in your head? It's a brilliant metaphor. The notion that, okay, you've got all this noise. I'm going to turn up the volume on my dream. It's going to drown it out. But like, that the reality of that is what?

• 15:11Speaker 02

  So this is the thing. I believe fully that every single person who's going out to chase their dreams has those voices in their head. I think it's part of the human experience. Whether it's fear or anxiety, whatever it may be, that's part of what it means to be a human being.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  So, you know, for me, it was my parents coming to this country and sacrificing. For you, it might be completely different. What I've learned in hindsight is that, not just with my story with all these people who I studied, the key of taking that first step, the really daunting one, because the first one's always the hardest, as you know. It's not about trying to logically argue with those voices in our head. You will never win against the voices in your head if you try to argue with them. What I've learned is that if you, instead of focusing on the voices and the fears, you focus on the desires. And I think no matter what your dream is, if you're able to find a larger purpose,

• 16:10Speaker 02

  a larger impact that lives beyond you, all of a sudden, all of your bullshit that's holding you down becomes a lot less relevant.

• 16:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, tell me, what is the mechanism of turning the volume up? Is it just amount of time thinking about, or is there something more to it?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  I'll tell you what worked for me. For me, I've learned that the way my brain works, and it's worked with other friends too, is that writing things down, and very specifically. Like, you know, it's not just wondering, you know, how do I turn up the volume in theory? I would literally write down, so for this book, you know, I would write down on a sheet of paper, "My dream is to inspire a generation to believe in what's possible." And the act of writing it down, and I had that, you know, it's funny to think about in hindsight, but I had that, you know, taped above my desk. I had that taped above my bathroom sink. I had that, like, folded up in my wallet.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  I had it on the inside of my spiral notebook in college. The act of writing it down and physically seeing it every single day made it tangible, and it made it feel like a less of a crazy idea and more of a real possibility.

• 17:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, that's really cool, and that specificity, I just agree with that so violently, I guess is the right word. Also, it came to help you because you had the actual list of people that you wanted. So when you would meet them, like Blake Mikowski was one of the stories, the founder of Tom Shoes. Tell us that story because the way that you ran into him, ran into him, is pretty great.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  With Blake, I knew he was speaking at this conference in downtown LA. He was accepting this humanitarian award. And I get there, and of course, I'm wearing my Tom Shoes and I'm wearing my blazer. I'm like 19 years old. I end up going to the event, and this is a crazy thing. This is not the only time this happened. So it's very, very bizarre, but I was in the bathroom. I remember I was in a stall, and I look out from, you know, under the little door, and I see these like really, like, brand-new red Toms, like, out-of-the-box, brand-new. And I'm like, I wonder, it has to be... So I like, you know, finish up very quickly.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  I open the door, and there is Blake Mikowski, you know, washing his hands, fixing his hair right before he goes onstage. And it's one of those things where you don't even have a chance to think about what you're gonna say. And I just go, "Blake, hi, I'm Alex, I'm 19," and I literally just start... And I ask him, I'm like, "Do you mind if I, you know, talk with you for 30 seconds?" He's like, "Yeah, of course, as long as you walk with me." And I started just pouring my heart out to him. And I think one of the keys is that I actually didn't have an elevator pitch. I just shared with him what the mission was. And when he heard it on the spot, he's like, "Absolutely, I'm in." And whether it was Blake, or whether it was with Tim Ferriss, it was also another bathroom encounter.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  But with all of these people, it was only when they heard the mission. Because they get asked to be in books all the time.

• 19:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Sure.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  I didn't know that at the time. So the book was an interesting to them, but this larger mission was actually what pulled at their heartstrings to say yes.

• 19:34Tom Bilyeu?

  What makes this book so interesting, man, is your story of trying to put it together, which is at least as powerful as the stories in the book, if not, in some cases, more powerful. So, how did you deal with rejection?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Oh my god, horribly. You know, because pretty much the whole book at some points feels like this long string of me getting my ass beat, you know? And dealing with that rejection, I realize, is not only a part of the entrepreneurial journey. It is the entrepreneurial journey. So how you deal with it is a lot more interesting than how you got your win. Because everybody will get their win in a different way, but how you deal with a rejection in many ways is a universal act. And what I've learned is that I do two things. One, when I'm getting beat up

• 20:33Speaker 02

  and doors are just being slammed in my face over and over and over again, and I have nothing left, the only thing that keeps me, because I've thought about quitting. You know, I'm a human being. I've thought about, you know, is this worth it? The only thing that would keep me going was that larger belief that we talked about in the beginning of it's not about me. There'll be points on my journey where I would be, you know, up at 4 a.m., sleeping at midnight, just pounding the pavement. And after, you know, getting rejected over and over and over again with that kind of lifestyle, you lose your spirit of what started it. And it was my best friends that would save me.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  And they would be like, dude, tomorrow, like, I'm taking your fucking phone. We're going, you know, on an adventure. We're going, you know, whatever it was. And in many ways, that was like my emotional reset, which saved me over and over and over again.

• 21:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Your friends are kind of like a third character in this book, which is really interesting. What I want to know is what do you look for in friends? Like, how did you end up with friends like that?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  You know, yeah, I'm relatively young, so I'm not that wealthy or financially, but...

• 21:49Speaker 02

  I do, and I think about this all the time, I feel like a fucking billionaire with friendship. And it's one of the things I'm most proud of. My friends, like, they'll go toe-to-toe with anyone as like, ride or dies, the funniest people, the most supportive.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  You know, there's this... Yeah, I'll go there with you. Like, there's this one story where, to me, defines who my friends are.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  This was about a year and a half ago. My dad just passed away from pancreatic cancer. And...

• 22:29Speaker 02

  The way a Jewish funeral works is, there's these, I believe it's like six pallbearers that have to... The son isn't allowed to touch the casket, so the pallbearers carry it out. And...

• 22:44Speaker 02

  You know, they took it to the, to the hearse, and... We drive up from the chapel to the grave site. And when we got to the grave site, I remember for some reason the pallbearers that had carried the casket earlier weren't there. And I just, I got sort of nervous of what are we gonna do? Um, it was a really chaotic day, of course, and...

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Before I could try to figure it out, this rabbi came over and started talking to us. And I don't know what happened next, but I remember the door

• 23:19Speaker 02

  to the hearse opening and hearing the casket being taken out.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  And the next thing I knew, I was stepping out onto the grass on the processional. And I look, I'll never forget this, I looked up and I saw my best friends. You know, the boys who I grew up with.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Carrying my dad's casket.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  And dude, I just started sobbing. And... Everyone, I remember looking around and seeing that everyone thought that I was sobbing out of sadness.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  It's the biggest miracle in my life. And

• 24:04Speaker 02

  you know, I don't wish losing a dad on anybody. But it's very hard for me to be mad at God when I look out and see my best friends carry my dad's casket. And what I learned that day is

• 24:21Speaker 02

  you know, you have your, you have your friends, then you have your best friends. And then you have the best friends who carry your dad's casket. And

• 24:32Speaker 02

  you know, nothing's more powerful than that.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  And this, this, every, everything in this journey is a testament to the, to the love and the friendship and the support of other people.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just love them and thank you for asking about them because they're the thing that I'm, I'm proud of most and I love the most.

• 24:59Tom Bilyeu?

  No, man, I totally get that. And it comes across so beautifully in the book and it comes across in the talks that you give and stuff and it, it just, there's something about the way that you approach life that I think is utterly fascinating. It's obviously captivated a lot of people, like even hearing the guys at um, Alsop Louis, talking about why they chose you when you were like this 19 year old kid and nobody knew you and like, what do you know about VC? And they're just like, yeah, you can tell that they liked being around you. What does it take to be a good friend?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  To me, it's really easy to be that friend who's, you know, cheering for you and like pumping a fist and, you know, your bachelor party in Vegas or whatever, right?

• 25:46Speaker 02

  That, that's the easy part of friendship, being there and cheering and celebrating.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  To me, the testament of any relationship, whether it's a friendship, whether it's a romantic partner or a business partner, is how you handle the hard times. And to me, the way you handle the hard times is with really uncomfortable conversations. So I am a firm believer that the quality of a relationship is directly correlated to your ability to have uncomfortable conversations with each other. And something that most people don't know about me and my best friends is that we, I would say like once every few months, sit together and we go around the circle. This is like funny to talk about, but this is what we do.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  We go around and we share with each other like something that the other person is doing really well, that we love and we want to see more of, and something that they can improve on.

• 26:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, that's like, that's good in any relationship. I mean, that's really brilliant for friends. I don't know that I've ever heard of people in a group of friends doing that. I think that is super wise.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 26:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, that, that will continue to play out incredibly well. So that notion of these hard conversations, I think is something that I want to make myself feel better by making you extraordinary and say that, oh, you're just really good at that. You cover pretty extensively that that is just as hard for you as anybody else. So how, like, what advice do you have for people in terms of facing those fears, having those conversations, getting outside of your comfort zone? You had a quote and I'm gonna, I'll get close. It was like, um, part of the reason that people don't take the leap is because you're stepping outside of your zone of certainty. But no one ever got, no one ever made their dreams come true in their field of certainty.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Dude, you have the best memory. Remarkable.

• 27:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, I was really into, to the book and just everything. So that makes it easy to remember that stuff. But like, how, how do you train to do that? Like, how do you get better at that?

• 27:51Speaker 02

  So something that I've learned from

• 27:55Speaker 02

  And you know, over the course of the journey, there's the people who I spoke to for the book, but there's also people I got incredible advice from along the way. And one was Drew Houston, the founder and CEO of Dropbox. I think I was like 20 years old and you know, it's a pretty cool brunch to be having. I'm sitting there with him and I'm asking him similar questions. And he told me something that was amazing. He said, "The problem people have with dealing with uncertainty, which is uncertainty is entrepreneurship." That's the difference between being an employee and being an entrepreneur is the entrepreneur takes on the uncertainty, right? Drew said, "The key that people misunderstand about uncertainty is that you're not born with it. It's a muscle."

• 28:40Speaker 02

  And people just assume that because they don't have it, it's not for them. He said, "If you think of uncertainty as a muscle and you train it like a muscle, things start changing." Let's say you haven't worked out your biceps. You don't go to the gym and just start lifting the 60-pound dumbbell. No, you start with two and then you go five and you go 10 and then you take, you know, a couple of days off. You have to, you know, have rest days. If you think of it the way you train a muscle, all of a sudden uncertainty becomes this manageable thing. Where you start small and you work your way up and something that Drew said that I love-

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Thumbtack presents, Uncertainty Strikes. I was surrounded. The aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use? What if I just used Thumbtack? I can hire a top-rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices and read reviews. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  He said, "When you feel the pain..."

• 29:50Speaker 02

  That means you're working up a weight class.

• 29:54Tom Bilyeu?

  That's cool.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  And then he said, "When you pull a muscle, like psychologically, if you've taken on so much uncertainty that you're having a panic attack, you're way too high in your weight class, tone it down a little." It doesn't mean it's not for you, but you know, if you're, I've done it, you know, you're lifting weights and you, you know, pull something, alright, you're gonna go down maybe 10 or 20 pounds the next time you go into the gym. And then you work your weight slowly back up.

• 30:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Talk to me about the flinch. What specifically did you do to deal with the flinch?

• 30:23Speaker 02

  So there's this great unbelievable passage from the book, "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron, which I'd recommend to anybody going through any hard time in life. And she's this Buddhist nun, and there's this part in the book where she goes, you know, she's a Buddhist nun and she's admitting that she still deals with a lot of fear. And in many ways, the flinch is the embodiment of fear. And Pema Chodron goes to this guru and goes, "Guru, how, how do you deal with fear? What is your relationship with your fear?" And the guru goes,

• 31:00Speaker 02

  "I agree with it. I agree with my fear." And when I read that, I remember sitting back in my chair, because in many ways, my whole life has been this struggle of arguing with my fear. You know, I would go with Steven Spielberg. He's standing 10 feet away from me and I literally cannot move my feet. You know, I'd spent months trying to get into the room, but the second I was in there, I would completely freeze. And what would happen to me is, in those moments where I would freeze, the voice in my head would be yelling at me, arguing with my fear, saying really negative things like, "You're gonna fuck this up, come on." Like, just really aggressive, mean self-talk.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  That line from Pema Chodron, you know, "I agree with my fear", in many ways is almost this jujitsu move, where instead of fighting your fear, you agree with it. You tell yourself, and I do this every day, because with this book launch, there's a lot of things I'm still scared of, truthfully. And what I tell myself when I'm scared, my instinct is still to fight it, but I tell myself, huh, that is scary. A normal person would be afraid of that. And the weirdest thing happens. The fear just releases its grip. It doesn't disappear, but it releases its grip. And you can sort of go, alright, you're gonna sit here,

• 32:31Speaker 02

  while I'm gonna go do my thing and we'll be right back. And it's weird. I don't use the word "magic" a lot, but just that thought is like magic.

• 32:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow, that's really incredible. What are some of the most impressive third-door moments that you heard from other people researching the book?

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Ah, my favorite is Spielberg's. Because in many ways, Spielberg's third-door story embodies so much of the third door in general. And the reason I love it so much is because of how it starts. He was rejected from film school, which is bonkers. You know, it's like Phil Gates being turned down from a computer science class. You know, Spielberg was rejected from USC Film School multiple times. And he, what I love about him, is that instead of doing what most people would do is think, you know, maybe I'm not cut out for this, he decided he was gonna take his education into his own hands.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  So what he did is he registered for Cal State Long Beach, which isn't too far away. And he arranged his classes, so he would only be there Tuesdays and Thursdays. And he decided he would find a way to break into Hollywood. So what he did is, have you been to Universal Studios, the theme park? So you know that tram ride that takes you on the back lot? So Spielberg, when he was 19, goes to Universal Studios, goes on the tram ride, goes around the back lot, jumps off the tram, hides in a bathroom, waits for the tram to ride away, and starts wandering around the lot. And, you know, he's popping his head here and there, and this older gentleman, his name is Chuck Silver, stops him.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  And Chuck Silver's worked for the Universal Television Library. And, you know, this 19-year-old kid just starts mumbling, saying like, "You know, my biggest dream is to be a director." And they end up actually talking for about an hour. And Chuck Silver's goes, "You wanna come back on the lot?" And Spielberg's like, "That would be my biggest dream." So Chuck Silver's writes him this three-day pass and hands it to him. And Spielberg, you know, comes on day one, day two, day three. But on day four, he comes back onto the lot, wearing a suit, holding his dad's briefcase, walks up to the security entrance, puts the hand in the air and goes, "Hey, Scotty!" And Scotty just waves back and he walks right in.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  And for months Spielberg would walk back onto the lot and sneak into sound stages, go into editing rooms, asking actors and actresses and producers out to lunch, soaking up as much knowledge as he could. And again, what I love about it is this is a kid who was rejected from film school, and in many ways, he created his own film school. And, you know, he's going around the lot, and after a while, Chuck Silver's, who became a mentor to him, said one of the best pieces of advice he could have given. He said, "Steven, there needs to be a point where you stop schmoozing and you come back with something of quality to show people." And Spielberg, you know, took that hard, you know, we were talking about hard piece of advice. He took that hard piece of advice to heart,

• 35:44Speaker 02

  and he stopped coming to the lot and started creating this short film called "Amblin." And he spent months editing, and even the way he produced and got the money for the film is like a third-door story in and of itself, but he makes this little short film, comes back to the lot, shows it to Chuck Silver's. And it's so good that a single tear comes down Chuck Silver's face.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  And Silvers reaches for the phone and calls up Sid Schoenberg, the Vice President of Universal Television. And goes, Sid, I have something you have to see. And you know, this guy's the VP of Television at Universal. He's like, look, there's a lot of things that I need to see. And he goes, no, no, no, no, you need to see this right now. And he goes, you think it's that goddamn important? And he goes, yes, it's that goddamn important. If you don't watch this tonight, somebody else will. And the best part of the story is Sid Schoenberg still was sort of lukewarm. So Chuck Silvers called, this is back when they had projectionists. Chuck Silvers called the projectionist for Sid Schoenberg's office and was like, look,

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Sid doesn't want to watch this, but when he gets to the, you know, the projection room tonight, put this first. He pretty much put his entire reputation on the line for this young 19-year-old Steven Spielberg. And as soon as Sid Schoenberg watched the movie, he said he wanted to meet Spielberg immediately. Spielberg ran over, got to the big office, and on the spot, he got offered a seven-year contract. And that's how he became the youngest director in Hollywood history. And when I reflect back on this story, you know, there's a million things that worked well. But Spielberg had incredible talent, but so do a lot of aspiring directors. What made the difference? And to me, it was really like this people game that he played.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  You know, jumping off the lot, meeting different people. But a people game sort of sounds like, you know, networking at a career fair. To me, it was like this Spielberg game. You know, jump off the bus, find your inside man, and use him or her as your way in. And really, the key is that inside man. Because if you think about it, without Chuck Silvers,

• 37:59Speaker 02

  one, writing that pass. Two, which I think is one of the most important, giving Spielberg that advice that only someone inside of the studio would know to tell him. And then three, which is the ultimate one, putting his reputation on the line. So Spielberg could get his foot in the door. None of this would have happened. And to me, I've realized every single person, doesn't matter if it's Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Maya Angelou, Steve Wozniak, they've all had an inside man or woman. Who's believed in them enough to put their reputation on the line to open that door.

• 38:32Tom Bilyeu?

  What I love about that is that inside man comes from they've gotten good at something, right? Like even Spielberg in his story, knowing how early he started and how he's making these movies, like when he's a little kid, and so even by the time he's 19, he's been doing it for years and years and years. One story that I found really interesting in the book, I think his name is Chi?

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Chi Lu, yeah.

• 38:53Tom Bilyeu?

  So, um, tell that story, man. Like, that's an incredible story. And then his, his quote about what luck really is, I thought was just breathtaking.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  I, my personal belief is that Chi Lu is the most wild story in Silicon Valley history that no one talks about.

• 39:11Tom Bilyeu?

  I had never heard it before.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  And there's a reason too, it's by design, because Chi Lu believes that every hour he talks to a journalist is an hour he's not giving back to the world. You know, talk about a guy who's like committed to his impact, right? So, it's crazy, because the thing about Chi Lu is I didn't, I didn't know who he was. So it was a mentor of mine who insisted I interview him. And I soon found out why. Chi Lu grew up in a rural village outside of Shanghai, China, with no running water and no electricity. You know, people walked around with deformities from malnutrition, like that's how bad it was. And we think our education system's bad in America. For every 300 schoolchildren, there was one teacher.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  I remember him even telling me that they had meat, you know, once a year on, you know, the New Year as a delicacy. And, you know, but she was very smart and very hardworking and by age 27 was making the most money he'd ever made before. Seven dollars a month. Fast forward 20 years later and he's a president at Microsoft. And it is just mind blowing. And the story is equally as crazy. So if you pull back the layers, this is what happened. So, his original goal was to be like a shipbuilder, because that paid really well. But he was too scrawny and too short. So he had to go focus on his studies. And...

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Around college, he had this realization that changed his life. You know, his biggest dream was to go to America and study in an American university. But to put it in perspective, it would cost, I think about $60 just to take the entrance exam, to take the test to apply to an American university. And this guy, you know,

• 41:09Speaker 02

  at the most, he's making $7 a month. So it's impossible for him to even take that exam. But he decides that he's not going to focus on the obstacles, he's going to focus on what he can control. And what he can control is, he can't control his money, he can't control his circumstance, but one thing, in his opinion, that God is fair to everyone on earth, is the amount of time they have in a day. So he said, "Okay, that's something I can hold on to." Because whether you're the President of the United States or a rice farmer, you get 24 hours every day. So Chilu went to the library and started studying famous people in history who hacked their sleep. Because Chilu was normal, sleeping about 8 hours a night like everyone else.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  So, you know, Leonardo da Vinci, there's all these people who have hacked their sleep. Thomas Edison. So Chilu starts experimenting. And over the course of months, he goes from 8 hours, 7 hours, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 hour a night. He goes, "Okay, 1 hour isn't working." He goes back up, 2, 3, still not working, 4. And at 4, he finally perfected, for his body, because everybody's different. For his body, he was able to work at the same speed in awareness that he was able to do at 8. And he has these various different systems that he uses. And what's crazy is that if you do the math, from 8 hours of sleep a night to 4,

• 42:36Speaker 02

  and if you're using those 4 productively, that's adding 2 whole months of productivity per year.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  So if you're crushing it, he's crushing it 14 months for every 12 months you're doing. And it all paid off, you know, he didn't know where it would go, but it all paid off one night. He was in graduate school at the time and it was a Sunday and normally on Sundays, he rides his bike back to his village to visit his parents. But, you know, randomly that Sunday it was raining, he couldn't ride his bike, so he stayed in his dorm room. And that night, a friend came knocking on his door and said, "Hey, you know, there's a professor downstairs from Carnegie Mellon University who's giving a guest lecture, but it's raining, nobody's here, can you come down and like fill the seats so it's not embarrassing for us?"

• 43:28Speaker 02

  And, you know, she's a very nice guy and he's like, "Of course, yeah, he'll do anything for anyone, he's just the nicest person." So he goes downstairs to fill the seats. And the professor's talking about this very crazy computer science stuff and she raises hand and asks a few, you know, very smart questions. And at the end of the lecture, the professor from Carnegie Mellon goes, "Hey you, how did you know so much about this? Where did you get those questions from?" And she's very modest, he's like, "Oh, you know, I've just done a little research on the topic." And the guy's like, "Have you done any research papers on it?" She had done five research papers on the topic. And that's the power of cheat time. He was the most prepared person in that room, not by an inch, but by a fucking mile.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  So the professor says, "Can you show me the research papers?" So she sprints to his dorm room, grabs the papers, runs back down, shows it to this professor. The professor is reading them on the spot and goes, "Do you want to go to the United States at all to study?" And she tells him, you know, it's his biggest dream, but he can't afford to take the entrance exams. So on the spot, the professor's like, "I'll cover your fees." She takes the tests and a few months later, he gets an envelope in the mail.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Carnegie Mellon offered him a full ride to get his PhD.

• 44:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Wow.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  And, you know, there's so, you can't study success without asking yourself, what role luck plays? Whether it's Bill Gates or Buffett, there's all these moments you wonder, you know Malcolm Gladwell wrote a whole book, Outliers, on the whole question of luck and random coincidences. So I asked Chilu, because if anyone in many ways had this lucky break, it was him. On a Sunday, if he wasn't, if it wasn't raining, he wouldn't have been there. But on the other hand, there was nothing, nothing lucky about him writing those five research papers. So I turned the question on to Chee and I said, you know, what, what have you learned about luck?

• 45:29Speaker 02

  And he's like very wise. He like sits back in his chair and he's like,

• 45:35Speaker 02

  "Luck is essential to success, but no one understands the way it works." And I was like, huh. And what he told me is that people think luck is completely random.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Chee's belief is that luck isn't random. It's almost like a bus that keeps showing up at the same bus stop over and over and over again. So if you miss one opportunity, don't fret, there'll be a next one at another point. But if you don't have the right fare in forms of your preparation, you will never be able to get onto that bus, no matter how many times it comes to the stop. And what he said is, you know, luck is like a bus. If you're not prepared, you won't be able to jump on.

• 46:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, when I heard that, I was like, alright, this, that's powerful. I will remember that for a very long time. It so resonates with me as being true. Uh, yeah, so that, that I really do like.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  He's the man. He's unbelievable.

• 46:36Tom Bilyeu?

  I was really impressed with that. One of the things that you said is driving you is that being the, you're in a big family and you said literally amongst all your cousins, you were like dead in the middle. And one thing that always bothered you was feeling invisible. And I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to. How have you dealt with that? Is it something that's helped you? Is it something that's hurt you? But how does it impact your life?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  It's so funny, because with these like childhood emotions, to me, they're like so visceral, they're, I can see them if I close my eyes. Like, I remember sitting at my grandma's house, she has this like big dining room table, like a big round one. And, you know, we have like 25 people, my mom, you know, all these cousins and stuff. And I remember sitting there as a kid, because like you said, I'm dead in the center. I have like, you know, 10 older cousins, 10 younger cousins, and I remember sitting at that table and feeling like, you know, I could start having a seizure and nobody would notice. It's weird when you're a kid, these feelings are very

• 47:42Speaker 02

  visceral, and that feeling of being invisible followed me through a lot of my life, where I remember in high school, there would be some days I'd be like walking in the hallways, feeling like people were looking like right through me, like I was this ghost. And I didn't know this at the time, because I had no self-awareness, but that became this story that I told myself. And that story turned into an insecurity. And in many ways, I've gotten myself, in hindsight, in a lot of trouble, in social situations, in career situations, where that insecurity was calling the shots. When you don't know the story that you're telling yourself is when

• 48:24Speaker 02

  they're the most dangerous. So, I thought I was invisible. So, I would do things to try to stand out. And that gets you into a lot of trouble. You know, there's this great moment from Tony Hsieh in the book, where he sort of like snaps me into getting more self-awareness. I've learned that insecurities will never leave you. Just like with fear, they're a natural part of the human condition. So, your goal shouldn't be to rid yourself of insecurities. It should be to become so aware of them, that they could be yammering away, and you go, "Oh, that's just

• 49:05Speaker 02

  the insecurity." Because when they're calling the shots, when they're determining your actions, whether it's your insecurity of "I'm not enough, I'm worthless, I'm invisible, I'm unlovable, people are gonna abandon me."

• 49:21Speaker 02

  When you're not aware that that's driving your actions, that's when you get yourself into the biggest disasters of your life. If anyone out there is dealing with an insecurity that they want help growing through, the first step is getting rid of the shame that surrounds it. Because the shame is what traps that insecurity. Think of insecurity like a bug and the shame is like the glass on top of the bug. You can't deal with that bug if there's this guardrail. And the thing about shame is that shame can only live in secrecy. The second you speak something out loud,

• 50:05Speaker 02

  it doesn't have power over you anymore. And even in the writing of this book, that was some of the hardest stuff. When I was a kid, I would get bullied and they would call me like Fatty Banayan. First of all, it's still weird to even speak those words out loud. But the act of writing it, even the act of saying it, the next time it's gonna be easier. And as soon as it doesn't become this secret anymore, you can start dealing with it. So anyone who's dealing with an insecurity, whether it's being invisible or not being enough, speak it out loud. Whether it's in therapy, whether it's with friends, or if it's just writing it in your journal.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Because only then can you start to deal with it.

• 50:51Tom Bilyeu?

  It's incredible, man. Incredible. Before I ask my last question, tell these guys where they can find you online.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  So, social is very easy. All the accounts are Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram. It's all @alexbanayan, so B-A-N-A-Y-A-N. And the book website is very easy too. It's thirddoorbook.com. So T-H-I-R-D, thirddoorbook.com. And of course, it's on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and Audible and all those places.

• 51:21Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, my last question. What's the impact that you want to have on the world?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  It goes back to that line that I wrote on that sheet of paper when I was 18 and starting this mission.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  I want to inspire people to believe in what's possible. And there's this one story that I came across during my research that really stuck with me. It's a story of this teacher who is teaching in Teach for America in Baltimore. You know, really, really tough school. And young teacher, you know, full of hope. And she's dealing with these elementary school kids, I think maybe second grade, third grade. And she realizes just how hard of a situation they're all in. So one day she decides, alright, we're not gonna do the math class today. We're gonna instead draw pictures of our biggest dreams. And she passes out sheets of paper to these kids and crayons. And all the kids start, you know, drawing pictures of what they want to be when they grow up.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  And there's this one young boy sitting in the corner of the class whose face is blank. And, you know, thirty minutes goes by and he hasn't even picked up a crayon.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  And then finally, his eyes light up and he starts drawing. And at the end of class, you know, the kids passing the papers and the teacher is reviewing them once they leave. And she sees that that young boy drew a picture of a pizza delivery man.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  And the teacher was very concerned. So she called the mother of the boy. And she said what happened, and the mother wasn't surprised at all. The mother explained to the teacher that the only man in his life is his uncle

• 53:03Speaker 02

  who's not on drugs and not in jail and delivers pizza.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  And what that story showed me is that young people will always look up and reach for the highest branch they see as possible. And it's not their fault what branches they see. Because they'll always reach for the highest branch. Whether it's up to parents, whether it's up to schools or society at large. And it's a reason I love impact theory so much. Because in many ways, what you're doing is you're illuminating branches for people. You're changing what they believe is possible. And what I've learned is that when you change what someone believes is possible, you change what becomes possible. And that's the impact I'd like to have.

• 53:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Love that dude.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Dude, thank you so much.

• 53:55Tom Bilyeu?

  That was amazing. Thank you. Guys, alright, just right now, run out and get the book. I'm telling you, I'll just be uber shameless because it is that damn good. Go get this thing. You know, I don't normally do this. I think I've held up a book maybe three times in the existence of this show. It's amazing what you're going to love about it. For sure, you're gonna love each and every one of the people, the famous people that you know, that you've heard of, and hearing how that they broke through will be incredibly fun and many times enlightening. But the transformation that he goes through as a person in the creation of this book is absolutely astonishing. You need to think of this video as a compendium to the book

• 54:37Tom Bilyeu?

  and the way that the two go together and to hear the stories that he tells about himself and that that kind of transformation is there for anybody that wants to avail themselves of that, to work that hard, to strive that hard, to fall in love with their mistakes, to understand that that's where the value lies. That the way that he so openly talks about the things that went wrong, like this was basically an hour of all the things that were difficult or went wrong. And they're so beautiful that somebody can share something like that that I know you guys will be able to see yourselves in. I saw myself in each and every one of them. And to know that there's a way to get past that, to leverage it, to use it, to grow, to become more powerful, to do what you want to do, is just absolutely astonishing. I'm telling you, this is somebody to watch.

• 55:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Get on that train right now because wherever this guy goes, it's gonna be incredibly impressive and useful to you. And that is the highest compliment that I can pay. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Hey everybody, thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to iTunes, go to Stitcher, rate and review us. That helps us build this community and that is what we are all about right now. Building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can, deliver as much value as possible. And you guys, rating and reviewing really helps with that. Alright guys, thank you again so much. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

• 56:04Tom Bilyeu?

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• 56:49Tom Bilyeu?

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