Richie Sambora | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

In this candid, in-depth conversation, Billy Corgan sits down with legendary guitarist, singer, and songwriter Richie Sambora. Together they dig into how success comes at different speeds, the real story behind life in Bon Jovi, and the balancing act that happens once the show is over and you head back home to family. They talk about cutting tracks in the old days, the headspace it takes to perform for 80,000 fans, and what truly matters when the stage lights go down. Richie’s honesty reveals a side of him few get to see—how fatherhood, heartbreak, and a raw passion for making music have guided his choices. No overblown rock myths here—just two musicians talking about their craft, the road they’ve traveled, and the personal challenges that shape them both on and offstage. Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:08Speaker 01

  People experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands,

• 1:19Speaker 01

  core changes, man.

• 1:21Billy Corgan?

  And you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing too good is a bad thing.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Too good is a bad thing.

• 1:28Billy Corgan?

  That sounds like one of your songs.

• 1:34Billy Corgan?

  The Samboras.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  The Samboras. They are the best.

• 1:43Billy Corgan?

  So.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  We would be, we would be pretty good together.

• 1:46Billy Corgan?

  I think your flamenco playing would be better than mine, but I could fake it. A lot of A minor, right?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  We're talking songwriting school.

• 1:53Billy Corgan?

  All right.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  For folks.

• 1:55Billy Corgan?

  Let's jump in here.

• 1:58Billy Corgan?

  Young William Patrick Horgan stays out all night at the then, the, uh, what was it called back then? Rosemont Horizon. Right by, right by O'Hare in Chicago, 1984, I think was the year.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Oh, well, it was a crappy sounding room, wasn't it?

• 2:15Billy Corgan?

  We'll get there.

• 2:18Billy Corgan?

  Yes, notorious.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Great crowd.

• 2:20Billy Corgan?

  No, one of the best, right?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Chicago, every time.

• 2:24Billy Corgan?

  So, uh, I stay out all night and I get my Scorpions tickets. I'm 14th row, but I make sure I see the opening band because they have a hit on Chicago radio called Runaway. And there you are. So that's the first time I saw you was I was 17 years old. Pretty cool, right?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  We were junk, that's amazing. Uh, we were junkyard dogs, man. I think, you know, we were young and they, and they gave us 45 minutes to play. So it's like.

• 2:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Head down.

• 2:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  And all you got.

• 2:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  No, no breathing necessary in the whole thing.

• 2:58Billy Corgan?

  It's like.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah, 45 minutes of, plus.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Ooh, she's a little runaway to the Scorpions crowd. No, we got a lot of, you know, I mean, she had to wear a baddie.

• 3:11Billy Corgan?

  The Scorpions crowd didn't like you guys?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  It was so fun because it was like nickels and quarters and.

• 3:15Billy Corgan?

  Is it because they had more of a hard rock crowd at that time?

• 3:18Speaker 01

  You think?

• 3:20Billy Corgan?

  I'm asking you, I mean, I was in the crowd. I wasn't throwing anything at you.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Hey, listen, man, you know, I'm, I was 15 years old, white kid from the swamp. My first concert was at Black Sabbath, man, you know?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  I was, I, I saw everybody.

• 3:35Billy Corgan?

  What year did you see Sabbath?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Uh, 75.

• 3:37Billy Corgan?

  So that was Sabbath, bloody Sabbath?

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:40Billy Corgan?

  Great period for Sabbath.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Definitely. Yeah, but I liked them from day one, you know? I was a huge fan from day one. Still am.

• 3:46Billy Corgan?

  You were OG.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Still am. But I was, you know what, I was lucky enough to have this train. I lived literally on a dead end street next to a swamp. But I used to cut through the swamp and I could get to the train tunnel in about a minute and a half.

• 4:03Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  And it dropped me off in Penn Station underneath the garden.

• 4:06Billy Corgan?

  Oh.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  I saw everyone there was ever seen.

• 4:12Billy Corgan?

  Who comes to mind, because I love this period of music.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Queen, Led Zeppelin, Elton John, Paul McCartney, Wings, Deep Purple.

• 4:23Billy Corgan?

  So you had a very-

• 4:23Speaker 01

  David Bowie five times.

• 4:25Billy Corgan?

  High standard of music, right?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Rod Stewart.

• 4:28Billy Corgan?

  Does it make sense what I'm saying? It's like, as a musician, you go, if I'm gonna do this, I gotta be up in here. Isn't that, everybody has a high standard. I come from the indie world, and you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing Too Good is a bad thing.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Too good is a bad thing.

• 4:46Billy Corgan?

  That sounds like one of your songs.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  No, it was a different type of the same melody.

• 4:52Billy Corgan?

  It's a hit.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  It's a hit, ladies and gentlemen.

• 4:55Billy Corgan?

  So, there I am, and, you know.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  How old were you?

• 4:59Billy Corgan?

  Seventeen, seventeen.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Seventeen, oh, you're old, old.

• 5:02Billy Corgan?

  I was playing guitar already, and you guys were a good band, you know, but I mean, there were a lot of good bands back then.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:09Billy Corgan?

  You almost kind of couldn't be a touring band at that point and not be-

• 5:12Speaker 01

  No, everybody-

• 5:13Billy Corgan?

  Everybody could play back then.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Everybody was pretty damn good.

• 5:17Billy Corgan?

  Did you have a sense at that early date that you guys were on this kind of jet stream? Because, you know, it was-

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:24Billy Corgan?

  You felt it?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Without doubt.

• 5:27Billy Corgan?

  Tell me, tell me, because I always love this, because you and I understand something that very few people understand. There's that feeling where you're like, wow, this is gonna work.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Big time, right?

• 5:37Billy Corgan?

  You feel it in your bones and you see it-

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:40Billy Corgan?

  And here it comes.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Materialize.

• 5:41Billy Corgan?

  Right, okay, so what were the things-

• 5:43Speaker 01

  As, as, as this materialized-

• 5:44Billy Corgan?

  Beyond the obvious, you know.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  I really enjoyed it. You know why?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Because-

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Before that, I worked like crazy.

• 5:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  And I enjoyed it. I loved it. I still do.

• 5:58Billy Corgan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  You know, I was in the studio for the last five days, like ten, twelve hours a day. I love it.

• 6:07Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Completely.

• 6:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Always did.

• 6:09Billy Corgan?

  Well, you're...

• 6:10Speaker 01

  So it kind of made sense to me.

• 6:11Billy Corgan?

  Let me tell you something, because you may not know this, or maybe you do. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  My who?

• 6:19Billy Corgan?

  Your reputation. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians? You have a very strong rep with alternative musicians.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:26Billy Corgan?

  You're very respected with the alternative community.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  That's fantastic.

• 6:30Billy Corgan?

  Because they see you as a musician's musician.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 6:33Billy Corgan?

  You see what I'm saying?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 6:34Billy Corgan?

  Where a lot of the rock guys, the alternative community kind of go, eh, too obvious, too lame, too cheesy, they want it too bad. You have a different rep in my world.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Oh, that's beautiful.

• 6:47Billy Corgan?

  Because...

• 6:48Speaker 01

  I did not know that. Thank you.

• 6:49Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. Are you kidding?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  I didn't know.

• 6:51Billy Corgan?

  You got a real rep because people understand where you're coming from.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 6:55Billy Corgan?

  Like, you'll hear people like, eh, Bon Jovi, but Richie. They don't mean John. They're saying, you know, the music that's not for them.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:05Billy Corgan?

  But they identify that you in that is something that they get it.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Isn't that good?

• 7:09Billy Corgan?

  So I think it's cool, right?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Good thing.

• 7:11Billy Corgan?

  So even me is my...

• 7:13Speaker 01

  That's so good.

• 7:15Billy Corgan?

  Anytime.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  No, I really appreciate that.

• 7:17Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  And you know I mean that.

• 7:18Billy Corgan?

  I do. So tell me, tell me what were the things that you were seeing beyond the obvious that told you like, wow, this is really gonna take off?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Well, our merch started, our merch started, Dising started doing like three times.

• 7:31Billy Corgan?

  The merch don't lie, right?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Merch don't lie, baby. You know?

• 7:35Billy Corgan?

  The merch tells the tale.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  It really, you know, besides that, I knew with Slippery, it was the first time that we were really a band, really.

• 7:48Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  I mean, we spent years on the road, obviously, and years together, and took vacations together. We were idiots. And we didn't have, we still didn't have good songs because we didn't have an identity yet.

• 8:04Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  So, and I did not have a contract, and I still don't. I never changed it. Probably one of the most interesting deals in the business, by the way. But I just went, look, man, we make this a band. Oh, I gotta, you know, move on because it's like...

• 8:22Billy Corgan?

  Was it in the beginning in your mind, was it more of a construct or was it a band? Does it make sense?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  It was a tribe.

• 8:29Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I was in many bands. Record companies would come see like three bands in a week and I'd be in three of them now.

• 8:38Billy Corgan?

  Just change your name.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  No, I'd be like, no.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  I'd be playing CDs or something like that.

• 8:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, right, I get it, yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Gil just leaves on Friday.

• 8:49Billy Corgan?

  Ross Alpin, you know Ross Alpin, the great Ross Alpin. He said he saw some flyer recently. Was the Richie something band?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, Richie and Friends.

• 8:58Billy Corgan?

  But it was maybe your birth name, your last?

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Richie and Friends, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's basically what, that's what I'd call my bands.

• 9:06Billy Corgan?

  But it means, but like back in the day?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Then when I got there, I'd say, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Cuban Yacht Club.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  It's Richie's number one, the Katy Perry dancers.

• 9:18Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I would change the name.

• 9:20Billy Corgan?

  Okay, but don't jump past my question. So what were the things that you were seeing? Because you have a front row seat. What are you seeing in the crowd? What are you seeing? You said the merch don't lie, but what else?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  No, it just, it was mania. It got to a point where it was, and it was, you know? People would just realize then they go, well, thank God, they finally got a good song for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? After all these years of like following them around.

• 9:47Billy Corgan?

  What changed? Okay, so what changed in your mind that made, suddenly you went from we didn't have good songs to we had good songs?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Well, MTV had a lot to do with it too. We cultivated MTV.

• 9:57Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Certainly MTV's darling.

• 9:58Billy Corgan?

  Can I tell you?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  It's only, it's only you.

• 10:00Billy Corgan?

  Can I tell you an inside pumpkin's joke?

• 10:01Speaker 01

  You're good looking.

• 10:03Billy Corgan?

  Can I tell you an inside pumpkin's joke?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 10:07Billy Corgan?

  You know, when you're making videos, right? And you've made many.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Too many.

• 10:11Billy Corgan?

  You have the meeting and what kind of video do you want to make? And so if they don't have a big budget, invariably, somebody wants to do the on the road video. You know, like, there you are backstage, thank you, there you are backstage, there you are on stage pointing.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  How many times we done that?

• 10:26Billy Corgan?

  Okay, in the pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 10:31Billy Corgan?

  There we are stretching before the gig.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  But that was true, you know.

• 10:36Billy Corgan?

  But that was an inside pumpkins joke.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I don't know what happened to us. We were actually playing in Chicago. We're doing two nights at Soldier Field, right?

• 10:43Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  And so, me and Bob are friends, right? So, he, he's great.

• 10:49Billy Corgan?

  Bob, Bob.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, Kid Rock.

• 10:52Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay. When you say Bob, you know, the rest of us just know him as Kid Rock.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I just happen to know him, you know, not that, that's like, no big deal or anything. So, anyway, I go, I think we do two nights, if you open up, man, you know, and it'll be good money. For an hour.

• 11:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  You'll be happy.

• 11:15Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  It's Soldier Field.

• 11:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  We'll sell out two, two nights.

• 11:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Which we did.

• 11:21Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  And he was great. And he got, we gave him a bunch more gigs because of that. And we were able to do multiple nights.

• 11:26Billy Corgan?

  Well, where are you trying to get at? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  I don't know, what was I trying to hear?

• 11:30Billy Corgan?

  You were bragging, I don't know. You were bragging.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't, no, I wasn't bragging, I was just, it's just.

• 11:36Billy Corgan?

  I think what I was trying to get at was, how did you get from, you said, we didn't, we didn't have good songs, then we had good songs, then you said videos, so I'm just trying to put those pieces together.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Well, I knew we had the best record that we definitely ever made as a band, and the best sounding record with Bob Rock, who is still work with him religiously. And Bruce Ferbinger unfortunately passed away. Um, I said to myself, golly gee, I think we can make two million records out of this.

• 12:04Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Worldwide, I'm talking.

• 12:06Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  You know, and we'll work our asses off, because we did every bit of press. Back then, there, it wasn't obviously social media and stuff like that, it was more. Journalistic newspapers, everything, whatever it took. And going to radio stations, obviously.

• 12:20Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  You know, doing that was a big deal.

• 12:23Billy Corgan?

  So the demand is there, the interest is there, but you guys are meeting the demand. And as you're feeling the demand coming, you're like, we better get even better songs, because it's...

• 12:31Speaker 01

  No, guy, beyond our control and security levels. Different things like that, like things you would never think of. You know what I mean?

• 12:40Billy Corgan?

  People climbing through the sunlight.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Just like crazy stuff. And you're just going about your daily job, basically, and doing...

• 12:45Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  We said yes a lot to mostly everything and everywhere, but we did that beforehand, too, which seeded the garden for when we had a hit song.

• 12:57Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  We hit a song in 24 countries.

• 13:00Billy Corgan?

  So I had to look this up because I did not know. As an institution, the Bon Jovi franchise has sold 130 million records. And to quote the lyric, "You have seen a million faces and you rock them all." I mean, that's pretty amazing.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. It's more than that. But imagine the piracy, it's insane.

• 13:28Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. No one wants to hear us complain about the money we lost.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Maybe you. It's true.

• 13:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, so, yeah, so what makes that number even more impressive is if you sold 130 million records that we know of.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  I was 17 that year, so I was pretty big. And we toured, you know what it's like when you take it that often, how much money?

• 13:53Billy Corgan?

  Oh, no, you guys back in the day, you toured like crazy people. What was a, what was a normal run for you guys when you were young? Like, were you doing four in a row? No, but you were doing four in a row, or, you know, because like...

• 14:05Speaker 01

  No, we did five shows a week, and however they fit on a routing level to save that kind of money.

• 14:11Billy Corgan?

  Because, you know...

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Because we were staying up to...

• 14:13Billy Corgan?

  You guys are, those songs are high vocals, I mean, it's, you know...

• 14:16Speaker 01

  So it does, as that athletic event.

• 14:18Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  It truly is.

• 14:19Billy Corgan?

  Yes, so you, you understand, and we understand, it's like, you know, you probably would have played seven days in a row if you could, right?

• 14:26Speaker 01

  I could.

• 14:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Billy Corgan?

  Well, I'm, not that you don't sing, but as a lead singer of my band.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  You know what, I take that back.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Because I've never done it for that long. I've been the lead singer, but I've obviously done my own tours for like three, four months at a clip and

• 14:52Speaker 01

  you know, play where I want to play, kind of thing.

• 14:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah, no, I'd play seven days a week if I could. It's just

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 14:59Billy Corgan?

  It's the vocal thing is.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I never tried it, but I still take lessons.

• 15:05Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 15:08Billy Corgan?

  Me, me, me, me, me?

• 15:09Speaker 01

  No, no. Yeah, all that. All that, yeah. Rigoletto, opera training.

• 15:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I went, I went to see Andre Pacheco one day. Actually, Denise was here, my assistant, as a surprise, took me to see Andre. I love him. And he wanted to meet me and I go back there. And it's just like me and him. So I walked in, he said, "Hey, come here." And he's blind. He's taller than you. He's huge and skinny, not built like a normal.

• 15:36Billy Corgan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  And like we know each other forever.

• 15:39Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  So he says, "I'm a little nervous tonight." "I'm a little nervous tonight."

• 15:45Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  "I could hit nine high Cs in the second song." It's an aria, right? He says, "I'll show you." Sits down at the piano and just goes, bang, bangs them out. Like clears the bell, no problem. And I'm looking at him, I'm like,

• 16:05Speaker 01

  "Well, number one, you're not gonna have a problem. Number two, how'd you do that?"

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Because he had a lot of control.

• 16:11Billy Corgan?

  That's a different level of chop.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  He goes, "But he should study his, you know." Just to get, 20 years just to get an opportunity in that world. That's tough.

• 16:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah. I got trained by an opera singer once. That was interesting.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Well, you know, what it did for me was, I don't know, it didn't increase too much, except my longevity.

• 16:36Billy Corgan?

  Right. That's what I did learn from the opera teacher. I learned voice preservation.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Basically, it's like going to the gym.

• 16:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah. It does, it does work. Okay. Bear with me here.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  I am.

• 16:47Billy Corgan?

  No, you're gonna have to bear with me now.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  There's no bearing going on here. There's no bearing. Let's face it, I've got James Mason on.

• 16:56Billy Corgan?

  My, my, my, my goal, as I was telling you a little bit before we started rolling is, you know, when I bring in somebody that I admire and respect, and you're certainly one of those people. But it, it's like, there's 8,000 interviews with you telling variations of the same stories. And to me, what most journalists, if I'm a journalist at this point, miss is the real experience of being in a big band.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:26Billy Corgan?

  Like, you know what I mean? They want to hear that, they want to hear the night that the group be broken through the skylight, but they don't want to hear about the night you rode on a bus for 16 hours and were bored out of your mind and...

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and who wants to hear that story, actually, you know? I mean, entertainment should be based as entertainment, not what's behind it.

• 17:42Billy Corgan?

  Sure, but we experience something different than what most people understand our experience is. When you were on the road, like, we did tour, we did one tour 20 months, you know what I mean? And you, I know you did those tours, like...

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Oh, 18 and a half months, you know?

• 17:56Billy Corgan?

  You know, where you like...

• 17:57Speaker 01

  52 countries.

• 17:58Billy Corgan?

  Hello, right?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  I'm still okay, there's no... It's unbelievable.

• 18:03Billy Corgan?

  No damage.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  No damage whatsoever. Actually, I've seen and played better than that.

• 18:08Billy Corgan?

  I won't say, "Sitting, looking at you, you look really good."

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Oh, look at me.

• 18:12Billy Corgan?

  Handsome man, handsome man. It's, it's the genes. But, um, so, you know, we could sit here and tell, or you could tell war stories and I could say, you know, when Desmond Child, you know, to me, it's interesting and it's important, but at the same time, I'm more interested in your experience of being in the band.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:34Billy Corgan?

  And, and your navigation.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 18:36Billy Corgan?

  Okay, thank you. I'm trying to come at it from a musician's point of view.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yes, that's good, fantastic.

• 18:39Billy Corgan?

  So, bear with me here. So, I'm interested, because obviously, there's a bit of controversy, as the English would say, with the documentary coming out. And I want to talk about it, but not probably how most people would want to talk about it.

• 18:55Billy Corgan?

  I'm interested in your version of your story and what I mean by that is is like, is your story a rags to riches to heartbreak and redemption? Is it you had it all and walked away from it all? Is it local Polish kid makes good? And he's still Richie from the neighborhood? Are you the handsome gunslinger who marries a Hollywood star and has a beautiful kid? You know,

• 19:18Speaker 01

  I was all of that.

• 19:21Billy Corgan?

  All of the above. I love it.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Duly noted.

• 19:24Billy Corgan?

  But it's, you know, when I say it like that, it comes off like a Desmond Child song. You know what I mean? It's got, it's got a little bit of a ring to it, but I, I don't.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Well, where did you think I get some of those lyrics from? Some of those stories from?

• 19:36Billy Corgan?

  Very good.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Called.

• 19:37Billy Corgan?

  But my point of bringing this up this way because I feel like, first of all, you're, you're, you're a respected musician, but I think your real contribution musically is underappreciated. That's my perspective as a musician to musician.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 19:52Billy Corgan?

  And in, thank you. But it's, it's a genuine thing, you know, I'm not a compliment giver. So, uh, but what I'm trying to get at is, you know, it's not like, what do you want to see on your tombstone? That's a little grim. It's like, what do you want?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Well, companionless.

• 20:10Billy Corgan?

  But he had a great time.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  I spent it all. No, I lived. That's what it means.

• 20:15Billy Corgan?

  He lived.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  It's just a metaphor.

• 20:16Billy Corgan?

  I get it. He lived.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Obviously.

• 20:17Billy Corgan?

  Right, but I'm saying is what's your version of that story? Because right now, uh, you know, look, we've all been in big bands here, the two of us, you know what I mean? And sometimes the story of the band becomes our story, but it's not our story.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Because, yeah.

• 20:35Billy Corgan?

  It gets a bit boring.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  And it's cliche and.

• 20:39Billy Corgan?

  And you're not a cliche.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:41Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  I would, look, I was out of the band at that point for 12 years.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  I was actually doing a songwriting clinic at like Abbey Road with these young songwriters and stuff like that and they said, would you sit for a half hour?

• 20:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Which I don't.

• 20:57Billy Corgan?

  Just a half an hour?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Well, an hour.

• 21:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  I don't remember. And I said, all right, you guys get going on that and walked in the studio, got all makeup. And I didn't even know what the premise of this thing was.

• 21:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I had a band for, it seemed like a halftime at that point.

• 21:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Most of the way.

• 21:17Billy Corgan?

  That's a long time.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Thirteen years or something, you know. And so I was like, okay. So I was, you know, trying to be funny and they, and the questions that were coming at me were unintelligent.

• 21:29Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  And did not demand any depth of answer.

• 21:33Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  I'm like.

• 21:36Billy Corgan?

  I haven't seen the doc, so.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  I said, cut.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  And I, and I talked to the director, who I really like, Deepak Chopra's grandson.

• 21:46Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  And he's talented.

• 21:48Billy Corgan?

  And hopefully spiritual.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  You know, I didn't know what you guys were looking for. What are you looking for?

• 21:54Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  And things like that.

• 21:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  And.

• 21:56Billy Corgan?

  I get it. Like, what's the point?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  None of it, none of it really got in the documentary.

• 22:02Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Right. But.

• 22:06Billy Corgan?

  Well, you ain't the one editing it.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  It was six and a half hours.

• 22:10Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  It was, it's, yeah, look. So it's the band's voice, it's the anniversary.

• 22:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  We did some unbelievable things. Mention those, mention those things, show how, like, you're asking me.

• 22:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  What that feeling was like?

• 22:27Billy Corgan?

  That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm saying, what's your version of that feeling? Because that's what's interesting to me.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Seven, eight, seven, eighty thousand happy, happy, happy people.

• 22:40Billy Corgan?

  Rocking.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  For three hours.

• 22:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  You know, taking them through.

• 22:45Billy Corgan?

  Great songs, great playing.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  They're coming back.

• 22:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  It's an event.

• 22:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, and, and, and, you know, the band had its up and then the band had its down and the band went back up. That's, that's pretty rare, as you know.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:58Billy Corgan?

  I remember, I don't remember what the year was, but somewhere in there, late 90s, 2000, people were basically thought you guys were done.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:06Billy Corgan?

  Like, you know, like you be, you, you become the oldies act thing.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's just in this country.

• 23:11Billy Corgan?

  No, I get that, but you know how America is, we don't think about other countries. You could be the biggest band in Greece and America wouldn't give two shits.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  It's so hard, so.

• 23:20Billy Corgan?

  You know what that feels like, because I know what that feels like.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  I'm still on stadiums in 52 countries. Okay, so say tragedy strikes and 20 go down.

• 23:30Billy Corgan?

  You're still good. Yeah, right?

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Who does that?

• 23:33Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  That, that's where I was at.

• 23:35Billy Corgan?

  Right, but you know.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  But being there.

• 23:37Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Was sensational.

• 23:39Billy Corgan?

  But you know, this business of music runs basically out of this city, LA. If, if they, if, but if they believe it, they believe in, if they don't believe it, don't matter that you sold out in Poughkeepsie. They don't give two shits.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  They don't, they don't understand it, they're not on the right.

• 23:54Billy Corgan?

  That's what I'm saying. So what I'm trying to understand is, in the meta-narrative, which is a bit of a modern way of putting it, you know, what's your arc in this thing, not even related to the Bon Jovi years? Like, what's your arc in this thing? Like, what's your version of your story?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Just that I, I understand, oh, for sure.

• 24:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, but you pick one, just pick one.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Gratitude beyond, whatever I had to deal with,

• 24:25Speaker 01

  what I received was way beyond the love and the warmth.

• 24:30Billy Corgan?

  So your relationship with the fans and what the fans gave you is very high?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Very high.

• 24:34Billy Corgan?

  Right, okay.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  I started to like, I understood the business.

• 24:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  You know.

• 24:43Billy Corgan?

  Well, you've done some stuff before.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  A couple of times.

• 24:45Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  I had had three record deals before I met John.

• 24:49Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  So I had, and my best, one of my best friends was going to law school.

• 24:55Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  And he owned a studio that I used to work at.

• 24:58Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  And then he went to law school and I joined the circus. I was in college. And I was, after two years I split, I was a psychology major. And my daughter just got her masters in psychology.

• 25:11Billy Corgan?

  I saw that. Congratulations. That's a, that's a big deal. What's her discipline in psychology? Does she have one? You know, because some, some people are union and.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  She is.

• 25:22Billy Corgan?

  Some people do it with trauma survivors.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  She's still in transition.

• 25:25Billy Corgan?

  Oh, she's in that.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Because she's going to be, going for a doctor.

• 25:28Billy Corgan?

  That's amazing. Congratulations. That's a big deal.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  She told me she was gonna take a break. One of those kids that works the summers.

• 25:33Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you don't have to do that, but I really admire what you're doing.

• 25:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Because she was keeping up with some very smart people, obviously.

• 25:45Billy Corgan?

  But also, and.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And excelling.

• 25:47Billy Corgan?

  I think you understand this context. Not every kid who grows up in LA with rock star dad and, you know, Hollywood star mom goes on to do something with your life. So you must be triple proud.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  We, yeah, and I'm triple thankful, you know, more for anything because

• 26:07Speaker 01

  it just was myself and I, and I was, I'm a good dad. I pride myself on being a very good dad.

• 26:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 26:14Billy Corgan?

  It's obvious.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  When you love somebody.

• 26:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  You love them all the way.

• 26:19Billy Corgan?

  It's obvious in poking around in your life in, in prep for this, how much you love your daughter.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, no, we, we got it.

• 26:24Billy Corgan?

  It's humbling because I have a young daughter, six years old, just turned six.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, but you're good. It's gonna blossom.

• 26:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah. What do they say? Daddy's in the daughter's right now.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Just, we just spent a lot of time with each other and then when I, we got divorced. She was nine and I, I went to a child psychologist and went, what are the things I can say and I can't say and those kind of things, you know?

• 26:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  And I went. But this is gonna be great because I have a undivided attention. Instead of having to split it with anger and things like that that were existing in the marriage, right? So it became a different happy life.

• 27:11Billy Corgan?

  That's interesting.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  You know, and I bought a smaller house for us.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  It was only a mile away from her mom.

• 27:18Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  So it was like, not like I was.

• 27:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, you weren't.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Absconding.

• 27:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, get it.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that, and I just really talked to her. And the rubber man that I had with her was more like.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Cause I watched it. What would you feel like if you, that was being done to you?

• 27:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  She was just kinda acting out.

• 27:44Billy Corgan?

  Sure, that's kids, yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand that, but I go, cause when I'm gone, you're gonna have to do this yourself. And eventually what would happen?

• 27:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Would be that sometimes it take a day, sometimes it take a week, sometimes it take a little more.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  But she go apologize and work it out with her friend.

• 28:03Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  So I was essentially, cause of all the time I spent on the road.

• 28:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Teaching her to self-parent.

• 28:12Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  As much as possible.

• 28:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Without, but you can't do it like.

• 28:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, that's not gonna work. You have to learn self-reliance.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  You gotta kind of.

• 28:20Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I mean, my kids are young, they're eight, eight and six, and I'm in that, I'm trying to get them to understand like, you're gonna have to figure some of this out on your own. I can't be here all the time.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  For everything.

• 28:30Billy Corgan?

  Like nine to five dad, I'm not a nine to five dad, you know?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can't be, just for, plus you need that time for yourself.

• 28:37Billy Corgan?

  That's true.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  To enrich yourself.

• 28:39Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  You know?

• 28:40Billy Corgan?

  And not go crazy. I was listening to your, I think it's your recent single, Believe in Miracles.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  I got two more, one that just got.

• 28:50Billy Corgan?

  Of course, of course you do, but I'm.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Oh, that one.

• 28:53Billy Corgan?

  I'm Believe in Miracles, please.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 28:56Billy Corgan?

  I like this lyric in this song. I really like the song a lot, too.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 29:00Billy Corgan?

  Sing a song for our future days, a song for the days we sung alone, a song for the laughter of tomorrow. Help me sing a song of hope. We gotta believe in miracles when you dream too much and too high.

• 29:13Billy Corgan?

  I thought it was really, I felt that lyric.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  It seems like that sometimes, doesn't it?

• 29:19Billy Corgan?

  Well, I'm not trying to put thoughts in your brain, so that's why I'm asking you, but it seems like,

• 29:26Billy Corgan?

  you know, when you experience, you know, you're playing eighty thousand people in Russia or wherever you were playing, you know, I mean, there's an adrenaline.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  And it's like, what mountain?

• 29:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, right, okay.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  That's the.

• 29:39Billy Corgan?

  Okay, well, at some point, and I'm not even talking about

• 29:44Billy Corgan?

  you leave that situation behind. I'm talking about at some point, you're gonna be alone on a Sunday. You look in the mirror and you gotta like, you gotta find something to hold on to. Because once you've achieved those highs and you've felt that dopamine rush, it's, it's not, you're not gonna find it in normal life. You're not gonna find it going down to grab a coffee.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  I, no, not, not at all, not that, but I have found that, you know, what, because I left the band, obviously.

• 30:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  It just.

• 30:14Billy Corgan?

  You left, you left the band? No one told me.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  No one heard that?

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Did you hear about that?

• 30:20Billy Corgan?

  I saw, I heard about the documentary.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Thirteen hours.

• 30:24Billy Corgan?

  I think about four hours into the Bon Jovi documentary, they mentioned that you left the band.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable. But here another.

• 30:31Billy Corgan?

  Sorry.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Once again, that, it's all perspective, right?

• 30:36Billy Corgan?

  God bless.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  It said, Marcus really said that. It's, you know,

• 30:42Speaker 01

  it's, it's not a thought, it's a perspective.

• 30:46Billy Corgan?

  Interesting.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Which is a.

• 30:47Billy Corgan?

  So, okay.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  The difference between that. So, but I have a different perspective.

• 30:52Billy Corgan?

  What keeps you, I mean, because I, this is what I read, like, what keeps you? Is it God? Is it family? Is it music? All of the above? Like, what keeps you when you really need to refocus?

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Obviously, it's a, you know.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Has a lot to do with my daughter.

• 31:13Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  It has a lot to do with my love and passion for music because I'm self-taught.

• 31:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  I read a lot. I like to read. I just got my cataracts done and then it's fantastic. I could read better again. I still need readers, but my, I see stuff that I never haven't seen in my life. Because I grew up in a swamp in New Jersey.

• 31:36Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Pollution, you know?

• 31:38Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  So that was, I mean, things like that are happening and it's just, and as far as business goes, you know, I, I, I saved my money. I did the right thing with it. And um,

• 31:53Speaker 01

  I don't have to do it for the money.

• 31:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  You know, that was, that was the main thing. It's like, where did I start? Why did I get into this in the first place? Joy. Then you have to do all this stuff and from full circle and you're not quite back to joy yet.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  And

• 32:17Speaker 01

  that's what you shoot for.

• 32:18Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. I read this interesting-

• 32:20Speaker 01

  To be that free as an artist and not care about these trappings, you know?

• 32:25Billy Corgan?

  I read this interesting piece once by David Mamet, the great playwright.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29Billy Corgan?

  And he said, you know, in the beginning, when you're an artist, you're free. You have complete freedom. And you beg for an opportunity and invariably somebody says, hey, sign this. And you sign away something and then you spend the next-

• 32:43Speaker 01

  You don't know what is at the time.

• 32:45Billy Corgan?

  Well, you don't realize how valuable it is and they wouldn't have you signing it. And then you spend thirty, forty years of your life trying to get back to that freedom. So it reminds me, it's the same thing, right? You, you, you came in because you love music and to me, you know, you strike me like, myself, like we're lifers.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 33:02Billy Corgan?

  It's just like-

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Where are you gonna go?

• 33:03Billy Corgan?

  There's no-

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Are we gonna fuck around with our sailboat somewhere?

• 33:06Billy Corgan?

  There's no not music.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  I don't even have a sailboat. I don't know about you.

• 33:09Billy Corgan?

  We're not David Crosby yet, but maybe we'll get there. Me and you like with the samboras on the yacht.

• 33:17Billy Corgan?

  Sailing, we'll go down and visit Sammy in Cabo and.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  With fabulous women in bikinis.

• 33:23Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Serving us martinis.

• 33:25Billy Corgan?

  That's not a pumpkin song, that's a Bon Jovi song.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Oh, you can, you can, you can dress them any way you want them.

• 33:30Billy Corgan?

  Well, in our songs, they're dressed in goth, you know, flowing, flowing gods.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  I like that too. I do.

• 33:38Billy Corgan?

  What do they say, whatever floats your boat?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, you know what? With music, there was so much good music that was, you know, coming out when I was coming of age. Late 60s. I was absorbing.

• 33:55Billy Corgan?

  You're just, you know, we're, we're, we're close in age.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:59Billy Corgan?

  You're just, you're like my older brother, but my point is, is.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Which is lovely.

• 34:03Billy Corgan?

  But, so I was born in 67, you would have been born 60.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  I was born in 59.

• 34:07Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so the era you grew up musically, I mean, come on.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  I had it, it was looking Hendrix and Dylan.

• 34:15Billy Corgan?

  Ridiculous.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Beatles.

• 34:17Billy Corgan?

  And in New York. And in New York, I mean.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  And everybody.

• 34:21Billy Corgan?

  Well, everybody comes to New York.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, it's like, everybody, everybody works in New York, that's what I'm saying. When I said that I had that tunnel, my mother used to let me go to New York City.

• 34:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Cause I never left the building.

• 34:37Billy Corgan?

  I get you.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  That's the reason she let me go.

• 34:39Billy Corgan?

  Ah.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  And I would go to, I'd stand there in line to get Gabriel tickets and stand there in line to get Zeppelin tickets and, and then go back and it was like, like, I'm tired.

• 34:51Billy Corgan?

  Did you ever, uh, did you ever get tired of meeting your heroes or does this still, does it still hit you?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Of course. Every time, even when I.

• 34:59Billy Corgan?

  Who's, who's somebody that you would meet and geek out for?

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Oh, anytime I'm with Jimmy Page, I geek out. Anytime I'm with Paul McCartney, I geek out.

• 35:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Bob Dylan, I'm geeking pretty heavy with them, you know?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  I mean, The Who.

• 35:17Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Pete. Pete and Roger.

• 35:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Those guys. What?

• 35:22Billy Corgan?

  And Pete's so smart, it's like, you feel like you're going to science class. It's cool, right?

• 35:27Speaker 01

  I tell you, it's just.

• 35:27Billy Corgan?

  It's one of the great indulgences of our, of our job.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yep, to be fair, the Rolling Stones.

• 35:32Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  That was when we're done was on my second solo album, on Discover Soul, and we're just running a hair late. Because I was taking on, I was playing on a, I was playing on all these different records, as I was doing that.

• 35:47Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  And the Stones started their record, so I had the opportunity to kind of like.

• 35:54Billy Corgan?

  Hang around.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  He said.

• 35:58Billy Corgan?

  I've heard they're kind of.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  A corner, a dark corner of the control.

• 36:01Billy Corgan?

  I've heard they're kind of finicky about that.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Well, they don't, they just don't hire any people, they got enough.

• 36:06Billy Corgan?

  Well, yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  You would imagine.

• 36:07Billy Corgan?

  I can imagine.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  So anyway.

• 36:09Billy Corgan?

  So you're hiding in the corner.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so.

• 36:12Billy Corgan?

  Then anyone spot you?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  It was then, Don said, hey, you know, because they didn't think much of Bon Jovi, there just wasn't a cup of tea.

• 36:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  But it don't bother me, I still, I still love them, I don't care what anybody says, I still listen to all their records.

• 36:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Constantly, they were so well-produced.

• 36:29Billy Corgan?

  Amazing.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  So well-arranged.

• 36:31Billy Corgan?

  It was a great Jimmy, Jimmy Miller. Jimmy Miller.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, like.

• 36:37Billy Corgan?

  And Andrew Lou Goldman was kind of a visionary, maybe not the guest producer, but, you know, very interesting kind of vibe.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Ah, their records continue to astound me to this day.

• 36:48Billy Corgan?

  Glenn Johns, and he produced, yeah, he also produced Who stuff.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:52Billy Corgan?

  Great, great talent.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Amazing talent.

• 36:54Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  But the songs, Jesus.

• 36:56Billy Corgan?

  Oh, come on, it's not fair.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  God.

• 36:59Billy Corgan?

  It's not fair.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  It's not even fair, after a while.

• 37:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  They're all.

• 37:03Billy Corgan?

  And of course, you've heard the stories how they would just party for days and just jam and.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  I know, and they were about a buck twenty-five a piece.

• 37:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah, just kind of, songs would emerge out of the morass of this.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  I went to see them every time, it was one of those bands that I saw every time.

• 37:21Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Had to.

• 37:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  It was that, it was that kind of.

• 37:24Billy Corgan?

  Okay, go back to your story, because this is a good story, so Don was.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  So, yeah, they were recording Crystal, so then Don said, hey, why don't you listen to my stuff, because I had like, I've got like Billy Preston and.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Cats.

• 37:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  You know, like, but it it sounds like a band.

• 37:42Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 37:43Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  I give good band.

• 37:45Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  I always have.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  That's not sexual, but. But so, so, so then I was allowed

• 37:56Speaker 01

  to come in and hang out while they were cutting.

• 37:57Billy Corgan?

  That's cool.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Which was so beautiful to watch.

• 38:02Billy Corgan?

  Is this, is, is, is Bill Wyman still in the band at this point?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 38:06Billy Corgan?

  He's post.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Daryl's with.

• 38:07Billy Corgan?

  Daryl's.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Who, who played on my record.

• 38:09Billy Corgan?

  I, I know Daryl from Chicago. Daryl's lovely guy.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Lovely to play with Miles. You know, very, hello.

• 38:15Billy Corgan?

  He's okay.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's just all right. He's right, and he's just a beautiful cat, too.

• 38:19Billy Corgan?

  Love him.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  So, but I'm watching and it was fun to watch them, how they started up.

• 38:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Keith was really good just getting, he, they all had understudies.

• 38:32Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Very interesting. I'm sorry if I'm giving your secrets away. But, you know, Charlie was alive, he had Kelly.

• 38:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Right? Waddy.

• 38:40Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  You know? And Keith said Keith had Waddy and everybody else didn't have anybody.

• 38:47Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Kind of thing. They'd get a riff and a groove going. And tape is, they're doing it.

• 38:54Billy Corgan?

  We just run tape all day.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  I'm looking at Don and I'm seeing piles.

• 38:58Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  You're gonna have to go through that stuff.

• 39:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 39:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  And we're really good friends at this point, Don and I, you know? So then it's me and Don, Keith are listening and mixes. I'm sitting there. This is surreal. Keith's.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  You know, if Brian didn't jump, I would have pushed him. Sorry about Brian Jones. I went, oh, it's cold.

• 39:22Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Brian was great, I thought. I mean, he had a lot in that band.

• 39:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, everybody, there's so much music there. God bless him. Go Mick.

• 39:34Billy Corgan?

  Hey.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 39:37Billy Corgan?

  I mean.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  I have heroes. They're all my heroes. They're, they're still my heroes.

• 39:42Billy Corgan?

  Mick's a hero in many regards. Right? We all should be so lucky as we age.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  His, and his business acumen has, has, has taught me that it's cool to know the business.

• 39:57Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. Nothing, nothing wrong, nothing wrong with know what you're signing away or signing.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Or what you're getting.

• 40:06Billy Corgan?

  I don't want to, you know, let's go back to the beginning, but I get the sense that you're

• 40:11Speaker 01

  You can, Billy.

• 40:11Billy Corgan?

  Well, okay, but I read some stuff, so you know, it's who knows what you read, but it was talking about the loss of your father, Adam, and your mother. Is your mother Joan still alive?

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:22Billy Corgan?

  God bless.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  I've just, I've been, I've stayed with her for five weeks. She's 88.

• 40:26Billy Corgan?

  Amazing.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  I, first thing I did, I'm very proud of this, I'm not bragging, first thing I did when I made money.

• 40:35Billy Corgan?

  Like a good boy would.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Got my little father out of the swamp.

• 40:38Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, God bless.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  And

• 40:40Billy Corgan?

  It must have been a proud, must have been a proud day in your life.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  For me.

• 40:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  The house that I, my partner used to let me stay at, and I told him I was gonna buy it from him. I got some DASH.

• 40:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  And I bought it off cash, knocked it down, rebuilt it for my parents.

• 40:58Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  And designed it, a boat, couple of jet skis, Cadillac, Lincoln.

• 41:04Billy Corgan?

  Nice.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Sold their house, put that money in the bank for them, and went, you're done, I've retired you. I'm going back to work.

• 41:14Billy Corgan?

  Wow. Proud day.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Proud day. First thing I ever did with money and

• 41:20Billy Corgan?

  I tried, I tried that with my, uh

• 41:22Speaker 01

  You know what else it does? It shuts them up.

• 41:27Billy Corgan?

  Well, I tried that with my mother and she told me no.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  She didn't take it from you.

• 41:32Billy Corgan?

  But, uh

• 41:32Speaker 01

  My mother tried to, no, you know what? My mother tried to not take it from me too. And my dad was like, my dad was working two jobs, man, for like 18 years.

• 41:41Billy Corgan?

  I'm ready, I'm ready.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  We would love a mother.

• 41:43Billy Corgan?

  So where, where's your mom living?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  One plus in New Jersey.

• 41:47Billy Corgan?

  She still wants to be up northeast?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 41:50Billy Corgan?

  She likes the weather? I mean, I thought you were gonna say Florida, you know?

• 41:53Speaker 01

  It's just, this place, it's on a river, it's just

• 41:56Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  peaceful.

• 41:57Billy Corgan?

  I get you.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  And

• 41:59Billy Corgan?

  That's what she knows.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  When I was like 19, I had a partner, and he had owned 13 houses you could own in the 70s.

• 42:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  And ride them all.

• 42:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  That America was doing that for you.

• 42:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  And so it was this beautiful house on the river, but it wasn't that beautiful or big, very, uh, I could take care of it myself.

• 42:20Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  You know, but I had freedom to play at night. My house was this big. My grandparents lived upstairs. We lived here, a kitchen, a living room, and one bathroom. Thank God, a basement.

• 42:38Billy Corgan?

  So you're down there with the black.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I was down there playing with my bands and my mother let my mother and father let me do that and that was cool. They they loved music. They were ballroom dancers. They weren't.

• 42:49Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  At one point, yeah, that's how they met, dancing. So music was always.

• 42:56Billy Corgan?

  I love it.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:01Billy Corgan?

  I'm I'm not trying to be morbid, but it's it's it's it is a personal question and you can jump around it if you want. But I I I looked at the dates of when your father passed and I looked at the data when you left Jovi. And it was about five years, right? And the reason I bring it up is my mother passed away in ninety six. And five years, almost like five years to the date, I just lost it. It I had this like weird delayed reaction. Did that happen to you?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:33Billy Corgan?

  It's almost like a bomb went off in my head. I thought I was.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Couple of time puddles.

• 43:37Billy Corgan?

  I thought it was like cool, you know, I mean, like you're good.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  I I thought that was it was releasing, yeah, it was releasing tremendous grief.

• 43:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Did you did you have a delayed reaction to grief?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:48Billy Corgan?

  Isn't that an interesting phenomenon?

• 43:50Speaker 01

  I explained that to my daughter. I said, sometimes you'll wake up and everything's going great and then you'll have a thought.

• 43:58Billy Corgan?

  And then boom.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  And puddles.

• 43:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  And it's okay.

• 44:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  It's better.

• 44:02Billy Corgan?

  Your father had cancer, is it?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was a greaser from the fifties. They didn't know any better.

• 44:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  And he smoked the worst, like lucky he's no filter.

• 44:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, my mother same thing.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Three packs.

• 44:14Billy Corgan?

  My mother same thing.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Can't do the lungs that did and luckily I was in investment with the the head of M D Anderson, which is the largest cancer center in America. I invested with him in a few different things. He was in this group I was in and.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Herb and Herb, you can't get in there for like six months.

• 44:38Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  And I happened to be with Denise Richards at the time. And her mother had lung cancer too. From smoking, almost similar ages. And I go, just get on a plane and meet me in Houston. And I called on Friday and we were in on that Monday.

• 44:55Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Just her, because friends, you know, and business partners.

• 45:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  A few different things.

• 45:03Billy Corgan?

  So.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Works.

• 45:05Billy Corgan?

  In, in this, because again, I don't care.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  But it does come back. I actually wrote a song, Seven Years Gone.

• 45:14Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  About that.

• 45:15Billy Corgan?

  That, because I.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  And I brought you that album, actually.

• 45:18Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  I did.

• 45:19Billy Corgan?

  Um, I, I, because the reason I thought of it is, is like, you know, people always go to the lowest hanging fruit of any situation like, oh, you left your band, why, what happened and this and, and, and they often miss is that there's this, like a river, there's underlying things going on. Life goes on.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:41Billy Corgan?

  Like, we're getting older.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  The same life.

• 45:43Billy Corgan?

  We're getting older, we got kids, this other things going on.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  I wrote a thyme song the other day and it said, the poorest and the richest still needed an ambulance.

• 45:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, right.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  It doesn't, you know, just because you're a rock and roll star or you're a successful musician, um, you're gonna have the same problems that everybody else has.

• 46:06Billy Corgan?

  So, so in, in this, if you follow my thought on this, if, if there's this delayed grief, did you have that moment where you're like, not what am I doing with my life? But I, a lot of my life is flying by here. My father's gone, my mom ain't getting any younger, you know?

• 46:25Billy Corgan?

  Did it, was there a kind of a cumulative effect for you where like, well, I need to kind of, does it make sense the way I'm putting it?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. But no, the definitive cumulative effect, literally, was I was having a mental health issue with my ex.

• 46:41Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  And that was, and I was leaving my young daughter, who was very bright and beautiful.

• 46:51Billy Corgan?

  She would have been around what age?

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Um, just exactly what the child psychologist told me, about nine.

• 47:00Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  They're gonna start realizing things.

• 47:03Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Nine, ten.

• 47:04Billy Corgan?

  So you're at this point of like,

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Well, now the,

• 47:06Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Explain Lucy, you know, that, that point.

• 47:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  And it, I'm like, I, I actually enjoyed therapy, I was a psych major. And I went to a child therapist, I said, I'm just brushing up, but, what can and what can't, what would be

• 47:27Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  the proper thing to do for this goal.

• 47:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  At the end of the day.

• 47:31Billy Corgan?

  Here's where my focus is.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yes. And she basically said, you can't say nothing.

• 47:37Billy Corgan?

  That's gonna be hard for you.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  No, it's true. You can, you can, you can say about the time you spend, but not her mom. Can't say anything about that. They have to realize these things for themselves. And I said, oh, okay. You know?

• 47:54Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  It was, it was that kind of thing. And I have a great rapport with her, I mean, we're, we're even closer than ever, I don't know how that can happen, but we're just, we're just ourselves, you know? It's like, it's okay.

• 48:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Like, there's a bunch of stuff over here that was taken care of for you out of love, you know?

• 48:13Billy Corgan?

  If I'm oversimplifying, you're, you're still in process of grief over your father, you're dealing with issues at home, you're in a band at that point for X number of years, you toured, your brain's out. You know, you've had all the success that anybody could have. Like, at least put me emotionally at the crossroads you were at.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Oh, I felt like, um,

• 48:37Speaker 01

  John was changing his focus and he often wanted to, you know, be a solo artist. And I go, can you make a solo? Well, I made five, I think, you know, and toured.

• 48:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  And enjoy it, you know, immensely.

• 48:52Billy Corgan?

  Was it that he was trying to turn the band into a solo band? Is that makes any sense?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it seemed, it seemed like he was, well, he was definitely changing directions. I came off the road with the aftermath of Lowdown record that I did, which was an independent release. And I brought you one.

• 49:07Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Just because I.

• 49:09Billy Corgan?

  I was listening to some of it today.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Just a little thank you.

• 49:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  And it was out tuned, I had great musicians. And he said, all of a sudden, nah, you don't gotta worry about it. John Shanks and I wrote like thirty songs and.

• 49:25Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  And I went.

• 49:27Billy Corgan?

  Hello.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Oh, that hurt a little bit.

• 49:29Billy Corgan?

  That hurt me.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  It hurt.

• 49:31Billy Corgan?

  Hello.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Now, here's a process of like thirty-one years of it going, not just well. Like, you can't even think about well.

• 49:40Billy Corgan?

  You did okay.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  The well meter is well beyond the meter.

• 49:45Billy Corgan?

  You're in the red.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And I got nothing but gratitude for the opportunity.

• 49:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, you know. Yeah.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  And that just, it shook me a little bit, but I said, I said, what do you got? And it didn't sound like Bon Jovi. It sounded like the band.

• 50:01Billy Corgan?

  What did it sound like to you like?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  I don't, it sounded like every song that I didn't want to write or something.

• 50:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  It just, it was.

• 50:09Billy Corgan?

  I hope you take this as a compliment, because I really mean it as a compliment.

• 50:14Billy Corgan?

  If you sat me in a room and you said, here's all the Bon Jovi songs.

• 50:23Billy Corgan?

  Pick the ones you like and you'd be okay with on a desert island. And discard the ones that you just don't have any connection to. So I know those songs because I've heard them. And, you know, even I've found deep cuts that I like and stuff like that. And it's one of those things where I've grown to appreciate the band even more as I've gotten older. Maybe at the time, the hair metal-y kind of times, you know, the grunge thing, we were all kind of like, ah. It felt so oppressive to us, you know what I mean?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have to be categorized.

• 50:53Billy Corgan?

  It was in our, right, but you know, for us in that generation, it was in our face with MTV.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:58Billy Corgan?

  Every time we turned around, you guys had really big hair and you looked really cool and you had hot girls, you know? And we were like, you know, in clubs. So I'm saying-

• 51:05Speaker 01

  It was working.

• 51:06Billy Corgan?

  Right, but, but you understand the joke I'm making, which is like-

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 51:10Billy Corgan?

  It's a generational thing to just reject whatever is there. It's not even personal.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 51:15Billy Corgan?

  Like, I liked a lot of your songs, but it was like, get out of the way.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, but it wasn't cool, too.

• 51:20Billy Corgan?

  Sure, but I'm saying now that I'm older and I look back, there's a lot of stuff there that I really like. I mean, genuinely, I think this is great.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Well, thank you.

• 51:29Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so when I was listening to a lot of your solo work in preparing for today's interview, it was like, I had this feeling, I'm getting chills, and I hope you take it as a compliment. I was like, this is the Bon Jovi that I like. Where is this Bon Jovi? And then it's like, ah, it's Richie-

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:49Billy Corgan?

  -that I like in this mix. The magic is Richie in the mix.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  And-

• 51:55Billy Corgan?

  And the musician in me goes, it's that, the way you synergize blues, pop, other influences-

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Well, look at you. You did the same thing. My God, you infiltrated so many different genres, and that's what I'd love-

• 52:09Billy Corgan?

  I'm a thief in the night.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  That's what I've loved about your records.

• 52:11Billy Corgan?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  I couldn't wait to see what you were gonna, well, what you-

• 52:15Billy Corgan?

  How it was gonna destroy my career next.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  What really you were gonna pull, artistically.

• 52:20Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  No, I mean that.

• 52:21Billy Corgan?

  I appreciate that.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  You would change your voice.

• 52:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  And, uh-

• 52:25Billy Corgan?

  Why, I, you know, when you sing, when you sing like a reggae, you have to, you have to figure some stuff out.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Sheila, Daphne.

• 52:32Billy Corgan?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  All those records were phenomenal.

• 52:35Billy Corgan?

  Okay, we've, we've entered the, we've entered the final stretch of our psychological dissertation here.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:44Billy Corgan?

  I want to talk real quick because I was sort of fascinated and I it was hard to find some information. I saw something about so the band was called Message, right?

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:54Billy Corgan?

  1982. I saw somewhere where it said you were signed to Swan Song and then I saw somewhere where it was like a failed. So give me the story on that real quick.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Well, I got signed to Swan Song like nineteen and a half.

• 53:06Billy Corgan?

  You must have been freaking out.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  I was like, "Zepplin, man, what are you kidding me?" I go.

• 53:11Billy Corgan?

  Did you get to meet them?

• 53:12Speaker 01

  No, not then.

• 53:13Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Not then.

• 53:14Billy Corgan?

  But was there a contact?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:16Billy Corgan?

  Who was your contact with that?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  I was in the studio, Mitch Fox, Sam Azner.

• 53:21Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  And Stephen Mars was the lawyer.

• 53:24Billy Corgan?

  Okay, and you're in what studio at this point?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Uh, lots of different ones. I was in Power Station.

• 53:29Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  I was in, uh, what's the one on 57th, dealing with church media.

• 53:34Billy Corgan?

  Okay, okay, so.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  A bunch.

• 53:36Billy Corgan?

  Put me in the room with Message because there's not a lot of information about it.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Well, it started out, it was a bunch of guys that had a band in New York and they were looking for guitar player and I got in. And the name of the band was Screaming Mimi's for a while.

• 53:50Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  It was a punky kind of New Yorker's, it's musically finest.

• 53:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  I believe.

• 53:57Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Max's and.

• 53:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Everything was, I was playing Guilds to lose a couple nights a week, you know, and just all around town. And that name wasn't working and tried another name that wasn't working. But we had the label and just Led Zeppelin and that was everything. And they were serious.

• 54:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  And they put up the money.

• 54:18Billy Corgan?

  So did it, did it ever, I know it came out later, but again, that's.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  No, you know what?

• 54:22Billy Corgan?

  The information is really messy online.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that never came out yet. The, um.

• 54:27Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  But I am planning on recording a song from that era.

• 54:31Billy Corgan?

  What, why didn't it work? I'm just curious because because the reason, the real story is.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Business, the label blew up.

• 54:37Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  You know, Jimmy and Robert and all that.

• 54:39Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they were running the label and Bad Company was on the label, it was like they were my label, man.

• 54:46Billy Corgan?

  There were a couple of other bands that were on the label that were kind of good.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Uh, Frank Corleone, that's it.

• 54:51Billy Corgan?

  There's a name that.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  How do I remember that? I don't know.

• 54:54Billy Corgan?

  You were there.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  And he was, he was very good, but there was like. You know, to try to get Peter Grant, I mean, Peter Grant's attention was.

• 55:04Billy Corgan?

  Hello.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  People would wait a month.

• 55:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Downstairs, at his house.

• 55:09Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  What? I'm not kidding, like, employees.

• 55:15Billy Corgan?

  All right, final stretch. It's not as cheesy as, hey, look at the camera and tell Bon Chovy fans what you want them to know. But I feel like there's like, let's call it the cheesy version of like, you know, I still love you. And like, what don't they under, maybe this question, what don't they understand about the story?

• 55:38Billy Corgan?

  Like, what's the missing?

• 55:39Speaker 01

  I like the first part of that question, because I don't like to accuse anybody of not understanding, because everybody has their own perspective.

• 55:46Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  On understanding, right? But all I would say, sincerity.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Beyond the image, beyond what you might think, beyond what you even might have heard or read. It's, I'm a sincere musician and sincere artist, and I will try my hardest till I'm dead.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Like Billy said, that's it, but it's really sincere. I love it.

• 56:14Billy Corgan?

  That's the you I know. I don't know you well, but that's the you I know. You're a straight shooter.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  You know me well.

• 56:20Billy Corgan?

  Okay, and we have mutual friends and they speak very highly of you.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  And vice versa.

• 56:26Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  And rightfully so.

• 56:28Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  On your end.

• 56:30Billy Corgan?

  That's the part, I guess, but that's the part that sort of annoys me, because I see the clickbaity stuff. And, you know, I see where people are like, you know, well, the phone didn't ring. And it's like, it's a lot more complicated, and then on another level, it's a lot more simple than that.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  You got it? You don't got it.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  You know?

• 56:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  And if you, like, I feel like I was born with it. It was a language I understood immediately. It didn't take me long to teach myself how to do any instrument.

• 57:02Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  And pick it up very quickly.

• 57:03Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I mean, you can.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  I had to go backwards and take theory to put it the other way. I really had muscle memory and ear.

• 57:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  And then notation, to go back and learn that was, I learned backwards, basically.

• 57:19Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  But going out and playing live, you know, and getting paid for it, it's like going to the gym.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Lovely.

• 57:30Billy Corgan?

  Okay, last thing. When you reached that point in the band where you're like, I gotta get the hell out of here. I have that about once a week, so I'm with you, you know what I mean? Where you're looking, you go.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Like, shut up already. I've had it with you.

• 57:46Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 57:49Billy Corgan?

  It's not fair to go back in time, but what happens in critical moments in our life, in our associations with our bandmates, you know, because like, and you know this feeling. No matter what we do in life, I'll always be a pumpkin and you'll always be in that band.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 58:08Billy Corgan?

  It's weird because in the fans' mind, you're in the band even if you're not in the band.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  It pisses you off somehow because it's hard to get around the image.

• 58:15Billy Corgan?

  Sure, but it's also on some level, it's a testament to what you've done, right?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Okay, but I think both of us, at least me and my solo career and you and your whole life,

• 58:29Speaker 01

  covered so many genres and covered them well.

• 58:32Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  That you'd be able to go and find a genre in your maturity.

• 58:38Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  As an artist where an amalgamation of a couple of those categories or just one or two.

• 58:45Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Would be at your access to paint sound.

• 58:52Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  I feel that way about myself.

• 58:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm like.

• 58:57Billy Corgan?

  Well, you're just as capable as ever. You haven't lost a step.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  No, I still take lessons and I was like a whole other thing, like the guys that stayed in the band, God bless them.

• 59:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  And they were in that groove. I was in no groove. I was in, I was teaching myself and getting into jazz more.

• 59:15Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Different areas of music and it was very enriching.

• 59:19Billy Corgan?

  But the last thing I'm after. Is, you know, I'm not saying as dramatically as the last day before you step through a door and you're like, okay, I'm done. But I'm saying is, there are moments in those situations, and I've certainly experienced them, where you don't feel you're getting the support you need. You feel like you're saying, does anybody here see what I'm going through? Can you, can you, I'm your brother.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 59:42Billy Corgan?

  Can you relate to where I'm at?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:44Billy Corgan?

  And it becomes about either dollars and cents, or ticket sales, or cancellations, and you're like, hello, my name's Richie and I just, you know, I want to be loved. You know what I'm saying?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 59:55Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  I feel that way. And, and what I've gained to experience out of many, many years in this business, as you know, is that people experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Core changes, man.

• 1:00:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  And it's like, you know.

• 1:00:18Billy Corgan?

  It magnifies and then at some point it can.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Billy Corgan?

  Right?

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  It does. You, you know, the, um, the straight on focus of when you're young and you don't have any other things to bother you or annoyances.

• 1:00:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Or things to tend to.

• 1:00:36Billy Corgan?

  Ferraris.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Or not even, just the responsibilities.

• 1:00:38Billy Corgan?

  That was a joke, but.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I, I do have Ferrari, but. What are you gonna do?

• 1:00:43Billy Corgan?

  Sorry.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Sorry about that. It's 20 years old. You wanna buy it? It's for sale.

• 1:00:48Billy Corgan?

  Richie's car.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm okay. But that's true. I think that we, as artists at our age, and, and being very sincere at every.

• 1:00:59Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Every second. It's not even, the, the music is the way I spend it. But people should have gratitude for every second and really understand the weight of it.

• 1:01:10Billy Corgan?

  If you'd gotten some of the support you needed then, would it have turned out different? Or you had to go at that moment because it was just, that was the time?

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  The turning point was obviously my daughter. I mean, daughter looks at you and goes daddy, I need you.

• 1:01:26Billy Corgan?

  That's it.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  And I go, you know what? I need you too. In other words, it's like.

• 1:01:32Billy Corgan?

  Did you try to explain that to the guys?

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and plus they should have saw it. And so, and then, you know what? We're all friends. Everything is, there's not like, there might be some animosity towards me in some directions, but I fought for that band to put that band together. And then I really wanted us to be a band and help the guys get involved with even the financial and this end of it, which is boring stuff to be talking about.

• 1:01:59Billy Corgan?

  But it does matter behind the scenes.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  It matters because there is a glue and a caring.

• 1:02:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, you're ultimately a family, whether you want to be or not.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Billy Corgan?

  And it includes the crew and.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:02:14Billy Corgan?

  The guy selling T-shirts, he becomes part of your.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:17Billy Corgan?

  Outer world.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  Yes. It's, it's, I chose to actually be.

• 1:02:23Billy Corgan?

  Okay, last question. Last question. And I'm not looking for dirt, I'm looking for an opinion because.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  You're looking for dirt.

• 1:02:30Billy Corgan?

  No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm really not.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  He's looking for dirt.

• 1:02:33Billy Corgan?

  I'm not that interested. No, because I think.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  You know what? I loved this interview, by the way.

• 1:02:37Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  And I want to thank you for asking me because you're a great interviewer.

• 1:02:40Billy Corgan?

  Now I got to ask the dirt question.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  You could jerk me off if you want, I don't care.

• 1:02:44Billy Corgan?

  You're a very handsome man.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Stop already, I'll put my intelligent glasses on.

• 1:02:50Billy Corgan?

  If, if, if there's a, in my mind, there's like a, like a dial sometimes with the decisions we make, right? So if, if, if a band is 70% music and 30% business or 60, 40, you know what I mean? At some point, did that dial get to become too much about business and not enough about music? Does that make sense?

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Yes, but not to me, it wasn't that.

• 1:03:15Billy Corgan?

  No, but I'm saying with the people you were in business with, did you feel that they got too much about business and less about music? Because you was a musician person.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  I didn't feel that way.

• 1:03:26Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so you were good with that?

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  I was, I was good with that. I was more, it was, it was getting stale. It was 30, almost 32 years.

• 1:03:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  And there was some.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Feelings that needed to be communicated.

• 1:03:40Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  That were not.

• 1:03:42Billy Corgan?

  But that's not atypical, you know.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 1:03:45Billy Corgan?

  Especially with, especially with guys.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, from New Jersey, give me a burger. So, you know.

• 1:03:50Billy Corgan?

  You're not known as the feelings thing.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  I didn't want to bring my problems to work.

• 1:03:53Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  They were everywhere anyway.

• 1:03:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  You know, I didn't even have a public assistant. I was just everywhere, no matter what I did. It was just one of those things.

• 1:04:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:04:03Billy Corgan?

  You were clickbait before clickbait.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  I was. And that sexy? But I, I have a girl now. I have a woman now that I've had now over two years and we have a wonderful relationship and to fall in love at sixty-three with the wisdom.

• 1:04:23Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  And she's also smart. And she's also healthy and, and beautiful and sixty.

• 1:04:33Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  And it's a different way. It, it invigorates you very much. It's a different way to fall in love.

• 1:04:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  It's like, it's like, yo, people that wish they say, um, wow, I wish I knew that damn one. I was damn in high school back then.

• 1:04:49Billy Corgan?

  What's the, what's the line from the Rod Stewart?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  I do know that.

• 1:04:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah. I wish I knew now what I knew. Ronnie Lane, I think, wrote that line.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:57Billy Corgan?

  Beautiful.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  I wish, yeah. But so that kind of happened to me and it was crazy because I was at my singing teacher's house. And I was getting ready to do a show, which was a ridiculous show, but a lot of fun to do called The Masked Singer.

• 1:05:10Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  In England.

• 1:05:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Hard. The costume, very wild. It's wild.

• 1:05:16Billy Corgan?

  You did that? I didn't see that.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I almost, you can't really win. It's like, who's fooling who?

• 1:05:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  But I got a chance to just go out and sing.

• 1:05:25Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Right? And whenever I took that damn mask off, people were going to be surprised.

• 1:05:29Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  You know, so I was doing it for a little bit of an ulterior motive.

• 1:05:34Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  But. There were three networks that wanted me in England to be a judge on this, that kind of thing. And I go, that's the hardest one, Noah, but I think it'll have the most value in the end. You know, and I didn't pick the songs. And they don't want, it's a really wild operation.

• 1:05:55Billy Corgan?

  What they have you sing?

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  I sang, I opened a show as the first artist, and it's the biggest show on TV there in England, with Elvis, "Viva Las Vegas."

• 1:06:08Billy Corgan?

  That's an easy song to sing.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  I gotta admit, I don't like anything.

• 1:06:14Billy Corgan?

  You killed.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  I killed it. Then I did "Hallelujah" after that.

• 1:06:20Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  And I nailed it.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  And that was good. And then they wanted me to do something by a woman. And I said, "Name it, whatever you'd like." So I had "Back in Black" and "Sweet Dreams" by Annie.

• 1:06:39Billy Corgan?

  You're a rhythmic singer.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  She's a mezzo, and that's an A, that's perfect for me. I have to change the key for Amy. And as a goof, I did a version of "If I Could Turn Back Time."

• 1:06:50Billy Corgan?

  Oh my God. I think that's where we end, right there. I can't talk.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:06:56Billy Corgan?

  Thank you. God bless you.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Thank you. God bless you, Billy. It was a lot of fun.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

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