Dan Farah | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Billy Corgan talks with filmmaker Dan Farah about The Age of Disclosure and the explosive claims from 34 military and intelligence insiders who say UAP activity—including over Area 51—is real and long concealed. They dig into the alleged 80-year cover-up, a hidden Legacy Program tied to crash retrievals and reverse engineering, the rebranding from UFO to UAP, and why disclosure is happening now—touching on nuclear sites, global tech races, and what it all means for humanity’s future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  UAP activity over Area 51 is in fact real.

• 0:32Billy Corgan?

  There's good aliens and there's bad aliens. And the good aliens keep the bad aliens in check.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  There's a lot of intelligent life in the universe. And some is good and some is bad.

• 0:43Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, here's the question. Are you afraid?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  There's definitely, definitely some stuff that's been said to me that is concerning.

• 0:51Billy Corgan?

  That's all I need to know. I don't need to know.

• 0:56Billy Corgan?

  Dan Farret, thank you very much for being here. We're here to talk about your great documentary.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:01Billy Corgan?

  It's a documentary?

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03Billy Corgan?

  Is that fair?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03Billy Corgan?

  I always want to call it a film because it has a filmic feeling to it, but it's documentary.

• 1:10Billy Corgan?

  Never sure when people are going to see these, but in this moment we're taping, it's just kind of come out recently, right?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, November 21st, so a couple weeks ago.

• 1:18Billy Corgan?

  So November 21st, 2025. You just broke records. You're doing really, really well. So, um, so I think it's unfair because I've seen a couple people reviewing your film and they've basically given the film away. I know it's a documentary and I know you want people to talk about it. So what I want to try to do is more have a discussion around the topics that the film raises, but I want people to watch the documentary. That's the whole purpose of it. But I have my own curiosities. So, um, let's start here. And maybe it's best, why don't you summarize for people watching, let's call it the, you know, the two, three sentence elevator pitch of what your film is.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I interviewed 34 very high-level military, government, and intelligence officials who collectively broke their silence to reveal that there's been an 80-year cover-up of the existence of non-human intelligent life. And on top of that, elements of the US government have been involved in a secret war. Cold War, a technology race with adversarial nations like China and Russia to reverse engineer this technology. There's insanely profound consequences here. And while all that sounds extraordinary to the average person, the people I interviewed couldn't be more credible. It's senior senators from both sides of the aisle.

• 2:32Billy Corgan?

  I was surprised. Sorry to interrupt. I was surprised. Like, there's Marco Rubio. Yeah. There's James Clapper. I mean, these are big, heavy government people. This is not like you pulled out the guy who was in the military 14 years ago and he's maybe got an axe to grind or he's got a story to tell.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  These are people with a lot to lose.

• 2:47Billy Corgan?

  These are heavy hitters you got.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And from both parties, you know, like.

• 2:50Billy Corgan?

  Let's start there. How'd you get people like that in the film? That seems to be a heavy lift just from a movie producer point of view. I'm sure you wrote down a list of people, but.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally, totally a lengthy process. So I started by first getting introductions to a few intelligence officials who had been, who were tired at the time, but in the past had worked day to day on this topic for the government. And I spent at least a year forming relationships with this small little group of people.

• 3:16Billy Corgan?

  So what's your pitch? If I'm a government official that's a skeptic, and who are you? What's your pitch?

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Well, at the time, my way into it was, you know, I had, I had had some success, fortunately, as a producer. I was one of the producers on Ready Player One, which Steven Spielberg directed and was a big, successful film. And, you know, I think whenever you can say that, you know, you worked with Steven Spielberg, who's, in my opinion, the greatest filmmaker of all time. I think, you know, people generally take you serious and, you know, will hear you out. And then from there, it's just, you know, can you develop trust with someone or not? And so my entrance was these few intelligence officials. And once I started to socialize what I wanted to do, they started opening doors for me.

• 3:56Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  And then one door led to another.

• 3:58Billy Corgan?

  Wow. Yeah. So let's start here. And again, I want people to watch the film. So I'm going to sort of just rummage around these topics because I'm personally interested. Give me your general take on what you believe, knowing what you know, or what you think you know, if that makes any sense.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Just in general about this topic?

• 4:18Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  I mean, look, I think, I think those, those two headlines nail it. There, there has legitimately been a cover up of not human intelligence in life. It's real. It's a real situation at this point.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  No, no, look, that's 34 people in my film, not a single one of them are like debating whether this is real. They're way past that. They're like, this is real. Now it's time we gotta catch the public up with the base facts. And we gotta put a lot more resources and brainpower towards this. It needs to become a national priority like terrorism was after 9/11.

• 4:50Billy Corgan?

  Okay, but you know, I assume you're a US citizen, so is a citizen of the US like myself. Okay, so you're sitting there in your easy chair like anybody else would going, okay, well, where does this go? And the reason I'm asking the question is, do you believe there's, you think this is a recent phenomenon? Do you believe it's a longstanding historical phenomenon? You know, of course, we've all seen ancient aliens and stuff like that. Like, where do you sit on that time curve?

• 5:16Speaker 01

  I mean, all I can really take seriously is what I've learned from my journey making this movie. And what everyone I interviewed made clear to me was the first major event was during World War II, where a crashed UAP was retrieved.

• 5:37Billy Corgan?

  Is this Roswell?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Overseas, in Italy specifically.

• 5:40Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, there's the other, there's another American incident that doesn't get as much attention, but.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like the first, the first.

• 5:45Billy Corgan?

  Is this during, during World War?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  The first incident I was told about was when the US and allied troops took Italy.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Apparently, a recovered crashed UAP was found in an Italian hangar and was, we took possession of it.

• 6:00Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  And then apparently, the first major event in the US was Roswell. And that, around then, is when the program that's talked about in my film, it's known as the Legacy Program, it's a deeply hidden UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. Apparently, that's when it was formed, right after Roswell. And this has been a really active program for 80 years, and there's been apparently a lot of activity since Roswell, all over the world, which really coincides with us starting to mess with.

• 6:28Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Atomic weapons.

• 6:29Billy Corgan?

  So there, I hate to summarize the people you talked to in the film, but the general belief is about 80 years ago here, it's, it's, it's a real thing. There were other stories, other phenomenon, but what we know based on our, okay, so, so that's your, you're kind of on that, well, if these people are saying it, and I've got enough linearity here.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the wild thing, man, was like, I interviewed all these people who had no relationship. They had different worldviews. They were. Not lined up ideologically, politically.

• 6:59Billy Corgan?

  For sure.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  They were all saying the same thing in private conversations. Many of them had never talked to each other.

• 7:04Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  And so I had the benefit of imagining, you know.

• 7:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  You sit in the seat, you do 2000 interviews and what if everybody says the same thing? You're like, okay.

• 7:11Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 7:13Billy Corgan?

  I'm a believer and what I mean by that is I tend to start from belief and work backwards. I know that's very unusual. So when people ask me, I'm like, it's so obvious to me there's something. So I've always worked for that. So, but I am curious because your strong presents such, I'm sorry. Your film presents such a strong case for what is something that's been on the public's mind for a very long time, which is are they here? You know, like it's obviously been the topic of very, lots of cultural things, movies, television shows, books.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Billy Corgan?

  Heck, you know, you can go outside of Roswell and there's the tourist spot, you know, with the alien pointing and all that. But what at this point, because you've, the film's been out long enough and you, I'm sure you showed it to plenty of people before it came out. What's, what's the counter skeptical argument that you're getting at this point?

• 8:01Speaker 01

  I'm really not getting any.

• 8:02Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, honestly.

• 8:04Billy Corgan?

  No one's doing the, are you being worked? Like this is just another version of counter and with a counter and tell pro or whatever.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  The only, the only comments like that I've seen are on social media from people that I know are bad actors. There's a number of people who are just legitimate paid bad actors.

• 8:20Billy Corgan?

  Give me like what a bad actor take would be.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  No, they'd be like, uh, there's no evidence. It's like, okay, well, what's your definition of evidence? In my opinion, you could put a 4K video of a real UFO hovering over a nuclear weapons site taken from a security camera on a classified military base. And half the human population would be like, oh, that's AI. That's visual effects. That guy made Ready Player One. He's good with visual effects, you know?

• 8:43Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  That's what the response would be.

• 8:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  But 34 people putting their reputation and their name on the line, their credibility on the line.

• 8:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Their ability to provide for their families. These guys all have clearances.

• 8:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  You act crazy and you tell lies.

• 8:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  In a public setting, you're going to lose your clearance. You're not going to be able to get, have a job. These people all took real risks.

• 8:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  To share what they lawfully could.

• 9:01Billy Corgan?

  Especially like you look at Senator Rubio, he certainly has a political future.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  I think the guy could be one of the presidents in your future.

• 9:08Billy Corgan?

  Said, I'm not going to go on the record about any of this. I think that's, that, that, that to me, not, not because I love Marco Rubio, other than just like, well, he wouldn't be open in his mouth if there wasn't something here. So I think that's where you're

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Winning very, he was a very strong force behind all of the last seven years moments for the disclosure effort. He was the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He really drove, led the charge behind the scenes on bringing whistleblowers in to learn what they had to share. He was responsible for pushing into the coronavirus relief bill legislation that required a classified report to Congress from the Intelligence Committee about this and a public report.

• 9:52Billy Corgan?

  Have they been doing those reports?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then he also was the muscle behind the scenes for getting the UAP task force formed, which was the largest hole of government, UAP investigation, which Jay Stratton was asked to build and run.

• 10:06Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Rubio is the muscle behind all of this.

• 10:08Billy Corgan?

  Interesting. Um, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. So I hope you understand the way I'm asking the question. It's, um,

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 10:17Billy Corgan?

  You're meeting all these people and I'm sure somebody at some point whispered some stuff in your, that said, look, you can't put this in the film, but

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:24Billy Corgan?

  There's gotta be some of those. So I'm not trying to ask you to divulge any information that's not in the film because that's the choice that you made. But did anybody tell you anything that made you go, if that's true, that scares the bejesus out of me?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  There's definitely, definitely some stuff that's been said to me that is concerning to say the least.

• 10:42Billy Corgan?

  That's all I need to know. I don't need to know.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:45Billy Corgan?

  I tend to approach, I tend to approach the, um, the issue or the subject of, of, of alien life here on Earth. It seems itself evident to me with how many planets and stars there are. There's certainly something, even if it's a sea anemone in some acidic sea on Mars. It doesn't matter to me. I just, I've always accepted there's gotta be something going on. But the idea of like, let's call it Earth presence.

• 11:12Billy Corgan?

  I tend to approach that as a discerning person and as an artist because it's a fascinating subject because it does lend itself to biblical tale all the way to like human story. It certainly fits very well with a weird like me. But the reason I'm telling you all this is not to just blab on. It's um, at some point I had to come to like a philosophical, spiritual conclusion, even if it's not based on fact. And part of that was based on talking to psychics and, and people who, who view the, the alien issue from the prism of like, let's call it a greater cosmology.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:54Billy Corgan?

  That lends itself to the idea that if God is the supreme, you know, super unbelievable entity, well, wouldn't there be other acts of creation? And at some point, when those actors creation kind of run into each other, no different than at some point there were people living in Asian, there were some people living in the Americas and they, they met over the Bering Strait or something.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:14Billy Corgan?

  They view it from that prism. It, I don't mean, I'm not saying I believe it or don't from the standpoint of, I had to come to a conclusion like, oh, that makes sense to me.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Billy Corgan?

  And the best one I ever saw was, or heard was, uh, because like anybody who has a, a good imagination, you can certainly lean into the scary part of aliens. And I've met people that have been abducted. I've had my own issues that I don't want to talk about, but I've certainly had enough encounter in life to, to think something weird went on with me.

• 12:46Billy Corgan?

  So the way, the best way I've heard it explained is, and I'm going to say it Chicago style, there's good aliens and there's bad aliens. And the good aliens keep the bad aliens in check. Do you have any thing you want to add to that?

• 12:59Speaker 01

  I definitely, my, my takeaway 100% from all my.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Research and going down this rabbit hole is that there's a lot of intelligent life in the universe and some is good and some is bad.

• 13:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  And, and maybe it's less black and white is good and bad. Maybe some have benign intentions towards us and some don't, you know? Maybe some view us as a problem. Maybe some view us as the equivalent of the ants in the tree line.

• 13:25Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  We don't matter to them at all, you know? They don't think about us. We're just there.

• 13:29Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  You know?

• 13:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. How, how, how does an elephant view an ant?

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. But certainly there is some subset of life from elsewhere that is paying a lot of attention to our nuclear progress and paying a lot of attention to our nuclear weapon sites, sites that are involved in the nuclear process.

• 13:49Billy Corgan?

  Do you have any theory on, on, on, let's call it the why?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, I mean, look, a number of the people in my film reveal that their educated hypothesis, which I, I think makes a lot of sense, is that they're, they're monitoring our technological progress because it's the harnessing of energy is the key to their breakthrough technology and how their crafts do what they do. And so when we cracked the atom and we started on this trajectory over the last 80 years, we're like, you know?

• 14:19Billy Corgan?

  And maybe that's why they started showing up.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we went from, we went from cracking the atom to like, now we're like, you know, creating black holes in labs and doing wild stuff that 10 years ago sounded like something out of a comic book, right? So the people I interviewed feel like we're on a trajectory to either be already doing what they're doing in our black programs or on the verge of doing it. And now suddenly they have to contend with us. And at the same time that we've developed technologically, we haven't developed morally. We're still acting like.

• 14:48Billy Corgan?

  No, we're going backwards.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we're acting the same way we were coming out in World War II. We're, we're threatening sovereign nations to invade sovereign nations. We're threatening nuclear war. We're violent. We're a violent species who, if you're a more advanced species that has watched us, you know, go from, you know, many, many, many years of no real progress to in a blink of an eye relatively.

• 15:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. And there, if you're, if you're, if they have the ability to deal with time differently than we do from sticks and stones to where we're at, really isn't a long time.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Blink of an eye for a lot, you know? And, and, and, uh, anyway, the point is that they, the people I interviewed think that we are now at a place where we are a problem for.

• 15:27Billy Corgan?

  Interesting.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  More advanced species. Or I've read this theory, which is.

• 15:33Billy Corgan?

  Using the same parlance, the good aliens want to keep us from blowing ourselves up.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  You know, the only, the only logic flaw with that, which I've heard as well, is they didn't stop us from dropping the bomb on Japan.

• 15:47Billy Corgan?

  That's interesting.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  You know, they didn't stop us from vaporizing hundreds of thousands of people in an instant. They didn't stop any of the wars since. They didn't stop any of the, you know, nuclear, you know, proliferation.

• 16:00Billy Corgan?

  Okay, let me throw another one at you.

• 16:03Billy Corgan?

  I saw a thing, again, I'm just, this is all my, my inner artistic riffing. The, the, the thing I saw was something along the lines of like,

• 16:12Billy Corgan?

  aliens are bound by the same laws of karma as we are. That's an interesting take. Have you ever heard that one?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 16:19Billy Corgan?

  That they would be tempered

• 16:22Billy Corgan?

  with the same set of subset spiritual rules, meaning they're, they're, they're, at some level, they have some consciousness that their actions have some effect on what happens to them in the afterlife or whatever the afterlife is. It's, it's again, all food for thought. It's even worthy thinking because if, if it's, if it truly is, let's say, let's, so here's one version of a supposition. You have, you have

• 16:50Billy Corgan?

  alien race or races with superior technologies that have the ability to do all sorts of things that we don't have the capability of doing. They may not be operating in a binary morality of good or bad. There might be a third or a fourth or fifth version that we can't even comprehend because we don't live within the parameters of a different subset of time.

• 17:11Billy Corgan?

  A subset of like, even like life and death.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:14Billy Corgan?

  And they, and there may not even be a religious overlay like we have where it's like, gotta worry about hell.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:19Billy Corgan?

  Their version might be truly just scientific.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're also my. There's a lot of what ifs, but like, you know, something obviously I've thought about and other people thought about is while they have more advanced technology, clearly, maybe there's things we have that they don't have, you know? Maybe these human qualities like love or like a soul or rock music.

• 17:40Billy Corgan?

  Rock music.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Or rock music specifically.

• 17:42Billy Corgan?

  They're coming, they've come for the rock. Um, assuming, again, it's a lot of ifs, if government or governments know, and there seems to be some collusion on some level between governments, because you would assume that Russia, even though they're in an adversarial position geopolitically to the US, so it's, well, China's supposed to be our friend, who knows? But they would be in possession with a lot of the same information. There's this idea, and I'm sure you've heard it, which is like, yeah, they fight out here, but behind the scenes, they have to have some sort of collusive effort to be on the same page about, I know you're saying they're in a hostile race for technology, but at the same point, there has to be some understanding about who's fair and who's friendly and who's not.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  A lot's been explained to me on this, and so my understanding is that there was a point in time where Russia and the US shared information on this topic, and there was, there was more of an understanding.

• 18:39Billy Corgan?

  And it's off now.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And that communication broke down over the last, last decade or so.

• 18:43Billy Corgan?

  Interesting.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  And, and so it's much more competitive now, but, um.

• 18:47Billy Corgan?

  Well.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  The biggest concern is China, from what I, from what I've been told.

• 18:51Billy Corgan?

  Sure. I, I feel that too. So I guess what I was after was, let's say, again, playing a game, uh, she knows, Putin knows, uh, you know, I can't think of the guy who was running UK at the time, our current president knows, like, they know, they know enough and they know more than we do. Does the, do you feel personally, especially as a US citizen, do you believe the public has a right to know? Or do you, do you sort of buy that this information needs to be kind of doled out in pieces?

• 19:26Speaker 01

  I think we're at a point, now that this film is out there, where the president can more comfortably step to the microphone and tell the world, we're not alone, the universe.

• 19:34Billy Corgan?

  Age of Disclosure 2.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Age of Disclosure 2.

• 19:37Billy Corgan?

  We're into the sequel already.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Perhaps, yeah. And, and I think.

• 19:40Billy Corgan?

  Tell me you're not thinking about it.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm thinking about it, yeah. I'm not the only one thinking about it.

• 19:43Billy Corgan?

  I bet.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  And, and.

• 19:45Billy Corgan?

  Congratulations.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Thank you. But the other thing that I think is important about that moment, it's not just telling the public we're not alone, the universe, I think.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  A sitting president needs to tell the public that the US intends to lead the way and why? And like, what's at stake? So if you go back to the last big technology race, the space race, Kennedy did that big speech.

• 20:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  He said, "We're, we're gonna win the space race, and here's why." He says, "Technology, space technology specifically," he says, "like nuclear technology before, it has no conscience of its own. It's up to man, whether it's used for good or for evil. And so it's important, it's critical that the US play a role in making sure it's used for the betterment of mankind and not to create, you know, a new sea of war." That was his whole, that was the whole speech, that was the context.

• 20:29Billy Corgan?

  Interesting.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  You know, I think the same context is here, but on steroids.

• 20:33Billy Corgan?

  So I could see the opening of Age of Disclosure 2. It's Kennedy standing there at the lectern. Sorry, I'm already, I'm already directing the film. You did a great job.

• 20:48Billy Corgan?

  I find myself wondering, because I certainly see what's going on in what I call a post-truth age, the age that we're in now, the digital age, where even if somebody like a US president stands up at a microphone, I feel like a lot of people don't even wanna know. And I don't mean they don't wanna know, like, they wanna stick their fingers in there. They just don't really wanna deal with the consequence of what that information would lend itself. And then you, you touch in the film about sort of people getting into the spiritual, religious question of what would happen if you suddenly say, "Yeah, there's these people. Does that change the interpretation of the Bible and all this type of stuff?" Is that a fair paraphrase of what?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, Congressman Carson, Andre Carson, Democrat from Indianapolis, he makes a great point in there. He says he thinks it's difficult for people to like, wrap their head around this 'cause it, it challenges their beliefs. It, it challenges their sense of reality.

• 21:39Billy Corgan?

  Do you think, sorry to interrupt you, but do you think that, do you think the... Okay, tomorrow, somebody gets up and everybody believes it.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. I personally don't think at this point in time, the 2025, people are gonna lose their head and start jumping out of windows or or questioning all their beliefs. I just don't see that as something that will happen. It's not in the film, but Congressman Burchett, who's in the film, made a point in the interview that it just didn't end up in the final cut. But he said, uh, he said, hell, he's like, I don't believe it would wreck religion. He says, uh, he says, I believe Jesus died for aliens, too. Like, that's his outlook. He's like, you know, it's, you know, maybe mankind is all over the place, you know, maybe there's all different kinds of mankind.

• 22:24Billy Corgan?

  Um, I'm gonna take a cynical position for a second. This is more, I'm interjecting my own beliefs and I'm sure I'll irritate somebody with this, but this is just how I feel. And maybe it's because I've been behind the wizard's curtain in media for, I'm getting close to 40 years now.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 22:41Billy Corgan?

  35, 37, depending who you ask. I'm very, very skeptical of the way, and maybe it's because I've just done too many marketing campaigns, of the way suddenly somebody flipped a switch somewhere and here comes all this information. Are you, are you, is any part of you skeptical on the timing or the sort of like, why now, part of it all?

• 23:04Speaker 01

  No, because look, one of the things that I unpack in the film

• 23:09Speaker 01

  is the narrative of how we got here. You know, it started with a very small group of people. I mean, in a nutshell, I'll give it for the audience, like the minute version.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  But well over a decade ago,

• 23:23Speaker 01

  an intelligence official named Jay Stratten and another intelligence official named Jim Mikaski, were working at the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency. Their job is to know about advanced aerospace threats, right? And they start seeing these reports of what we used to call UFOs, UAP. They go all over the Pentagon and the intelligence community trying to find what they assume must be a UFO office somewhere, someone who handles this stuff, right? And they couldn't find one. And they were shocked. They're like, how is there no office that handles this? As far as they could tell, there had been nothing since the closure of the Air Force's Project Blue Book. And so they were like, well, we can't just let these, these advanced aircraft operating in our airspace go on dealt with. We have to start a new program. So they started a program that was called OSAP and

• 24:03Billy Corgan?

  Was that government funded? Because I was, I was

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so

• 24:07Billy Corgan?

  Maybe you just in the film, but I was found myself curious because I know you're where you're going, so I'll let you finish. But I was curious, like, so they start a program, but like, who gave them authorization to start?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  So OSAP, the funding was appropriated by Senator Harry Reid and some of his colleagues. But Harry Reid was the point senator. He was the Senate Majority Leader at the time, and he was the muscle behind getting funds appropriated to them.

• 24:29Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  OSAP looked into UAP and the phenomenon in general on behalf of the US government with a lot of taxpayer money. And at a certain point, the funding got pulled. And there were some mysterious forces behind the scenes that were blocking their progress. And then Jay and Lou and a couple other people basically kept the effort going with a new effort that they called ATIP. And ATIP was at one point the code name for OSAP. So that's why they just organically used it as the part two, right? And they kept that going, bootstrapping it without real big funding. They were bootstrapping this investigation, continuing their investigation,

• 25:13Speaker 01

  right? And that went on for a while. And every time they tried to raise alarm bells within the Pentagon about these real issues like UAP invading our military base airspace, our nuclear weapons airspace, significant, now screw their rights, they kept getting blocked by bureaucracy and stigma. And so they eventually made this plan where one guy's gonna go public, make a bunch of noise in the media, the other guy's gonna stay behind and catch that newfound interest that comes from, you know, Congress seeing it in the media, then paying attention finally, then going to the Pentagon for answers, and Jay will be there to catch that, right? And so they made this whole plan to bring out disclosure. And that really kind of got into the public eye. End of 17, Lu Elzondo went public, made

• 25:54Speaker 01

  a lot of noise in the media, you know, really took a lot of the arrows, you know?

• 25:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  And Jay moved the ball forward internally. It's still in the government. And then the New York Times ran a big story, which is how a lot of people heard about this, right? That was 2017, right? And then from 17 on, every, every year, these people, small group of people pushing the ball forward. A big uphill battle, right? Leads to hearings. There's been several hearings. There's been several key moments where whistleblowers go and tell people like the, you know, senators on the Senate Intel Committee, the senators on the Senate Armed Services Committee. It's been a process. It's not like a quick, like moment. It's a lot of moments.

• 26:34Billy Corgan?

  So you see it as an organic process, right? Time, right? People and it's sort of, these doors have slowly cracked open.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's been a marathon, not a sprint.

• 26:45Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's somewhat comforting. I mean, just the, the, you know, the, the public person in me, again, I'm going on my own experiences. I just, something about it seems a little too clean, a little too. And again, I have no information. I'm just going on gut instinct and my gut instinct is if I see James Clapper in there, if I see Rubio in there and then suddenly these doors are cracking open. Okay, after 75 years of silence, if we use your, not yours, but the date you sort of cite, that this World War II date, it just feels a little too like, feels like a, a marketing rollout. Does it make sense the way I'm putting it?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Well, the backstory that I was just summing up is like a, you know, over a decade process.

• 27:28Billy Corgan?

  No, I get that. I'm, I, I, I'm not trying to put you on the spot to answer a question. I'm more just riffing with you that, that I love, I love that this information is finally coming out. It, it's always struck me as like, uh, again, back to Chicago language. Yeah, duh. Like, since I'm a little kid, I'm like, of course there's fricking aliens. It's like.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Here's how I would look at it. Uh, if disclosure was like, oh, a, a uphill battle, or let's just say a, a war, right?

• 27:58Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Then all these little wins, like the Plan J and Lou put in place, the New York Times article in 17, each hearing, each whistleblower who speaks up, if those are all little battles, enough of these key battles needed to be won before someone like Rubio and Clapper would participate in a film like this and break their silence with what they can lawfully disclose.

• 28:20Billy Corgan?

  And again, not trying to argue with you, we're just having a conversation. I agree with you and that makes sense to me, but here's where I go like, okay, but wait, those are the same forces, obviously different people and different times, but those are the same forces that shut it down before.

• 28:37Billy Corgan?

  So somebody in the line, who knows, or a collective had to say, okay, now we're gonna let it happen. Because every other time it started to happen organically, they ran counter intel probe. Again, I'm no spook, so I don't know the language I'm using. I've watched too many TV shows. The point is, we've had X-Files, we had movies in the 50s about, you know, people from outers. My point is, there were, there has been an organic fascination in the American culture for at least 100 years with the idea of aliens and alien incursion. And every other time it bubbled up to an organic level of interest, it was always, somebody came in who was very skilled, or collective wider, we, came in and pulled that back down.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's still happening. Don't, don't, I don't want to confuse.

• 29:25Billy Corgan?

  That's helpful information.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't want to confuse the matter. So my film reveal, the people in my film reveal the existence of a deeply hidden program called the Legacy Program. That has gate kept and covered all this up for years and kept it from public, Congress, and even sitting presidents. That is, that's the way.

• 29:40Billy Corgan?

  Just that, just that fact alone is mind blowing.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  That's the way it led. And this isn't like 50 guys in a room. This is a significant operation that has had billions of dollars in funding. Multiple people have told me.

• 29:51Billy Corgan?

  What do they call it? Off the book funding? What's the name they use that black, black?

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Well, it's just misappropriated funding.

• 29:56Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Yeah, you talk about.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  You know, billions of dollars a year can be supposed, yeah, might, might be intended to go one place and it goes somewhere else.

• 30:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Multiple people have told me, you know, in my research, that the number overall is more like a trillion dollars since the 40s. So you're talking about a significant operation, a lot of people, their full time job, right? And so Congress has been kept out of loop, the White House has been kept out of loop. And so people like Rubio, for example, or Gillibrand, who because of their positions on, you know, the Senate Armed Services Committee, or the Senate Intelligence Committee, have been able to uncover what's been going on, they're, they're chasing information, just like the public, but they have the ability to get it, right?

• 30:38Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  And so I think where we have landed and what led to them wanting to participate, participate in the movie, is I think a lot of people who have uncovered the truth. With the access they have, have realized how real and heightened this race is we are in with adversaries like China.

• 30:58Billy Corgan?

  So that's, that's one.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  So that's the weight off their shoulders is tell the world because we need the US to take it serious.

• 31:03Billy Corgan?

  Is it, is it, if I'm reading what you're saying, is it, is it? Yes, it's been clandestine and yes, but now it's reached a sort of tipping point where the, where the arms race, for lack of a better word, of who might get access to certain technologies.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  That's literally what it is.

• 31:20Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so at least it satisfies the cynic in me to say,

• 31:26Billy Corgan?

  if there's any motivation to open it up, well, then that's the motivation. Does it make sense?

• 31:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 31:30Billy Corgan?

  Like now we have to open it up.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  That is like, that is.

• 31:33Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so great. So we're on the same page.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  That's that thing that's like causing that tipping point.

• 31:38Billy Corgan?

  Okay, good.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Of.

• 31:40Billy Corgan?

  That at least satisfies the cynic in you. You see what I'm saying?

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, how can you win a technology race if, you know, as one of the guys in my film says, if 99% of the scientists in America don't even know it's real, you know?

• 31:50Billy Corgan?

  That's wild.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  You know, so you have to make, you have to, you have to make the public understand the base facts. We, everyone I interviewed was like, you have to get academia and the scientific community to understand this is real.

• 32:00Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's going to be difficult because they've just spent the last 75 plus years telling them that, don't even mention, you know, even the rebranding of the word UFO to UAP is interesting. Again, the marketer in me goes, oh, that's interesting. Somebody made a decision somewhere to do so.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Jay Stratten, and I'm one of the few people who's read his memoir that's coming out early next year. It's amazing. He's the guy who made the change. He was running the UAP task force and.

• 32:26Billy Corgan?

  So he made a conscious decision.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, because he found it challenging to brief people about this in government that didn't know anything about it. When you're, when you start your conversation off with UFO.

• 32:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Because of the stigma in our country, this.

• 32:36Billy Corgan?

  The little green men joke.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, this cultural ridiculous, you know, unjustified stigma led to the giggle factor. And so he was like, we've got to like rebrand this. We've got to talk about it in a more serious way. On top of that, they were finding that, you know, UFO stands for unidentified flying object. But there is an immense amount of data, very credible data of UAP operating under the oceans.

• 33:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Like, like a crazy amount. And so flying doesn't really cut it as a description. So UAP stands for unidentified anomalous.

• 33:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Phenomena. So it covers all mediums. So whether the activity is in. The ocean, space, or sea, it checks all the boxes.

• 33:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  So it actually makes a lot of sense to change it.

• 33:21Billy Corgan?

  Um, thank you for indulging me.

• 33:26Billy Corgan?

  I love this topic, so.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Me too. I could talk about this for hours.

• 33:29Billy Corgan?

  And.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Bring it on.

• 33:31Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, okay, good. So I'm gonna give it my own label here. I call it the superiority principle. Here's my superiority principle.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:39Billy Corgan?

  And it's similar to what I said before, but a slightly different take on it. If there is an alien entity, whether they're dematerializing from another dimension or materializing from another dimension, whether they're living under the ocean and they've been here the whole time, I don't care. Let's just assume there's somebody, and even calling somebody might be too broad a word. There's an entity that has the ability to foist a technology and make stuff happen, whether it's shutting down nuclear missiles in the middle of America, whether it's flying at blinding speeds. You know, you talk about all these things in the film. Well, the logic in me goes, well,

• 34:24Billy Corgan?

  if they have this technology, well, they could get rid of us at any point that they want. So I tend to land on the benign side of the equation. Again, we talked about good aliens, bad aliens, but the idea is like, if they wanted to get rid of us, they would have gotten rid of us by now.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  But here's my counter to that.

• 34:44Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Because it could go either way. Sure. But the thing

• 34:50Speaker 01

  that a number of the people I interviewed talked about with me and changed my perspective is

• 34:56Speaker 01

  that opinion that they haven't done away with us yet, so they must be good, doesn't factor in the variables of how we have evolved, right? Like the analogy, there's a senior scientist in my film who's worked on a lot of classified UAP programs. He makes a great analogy. He says, "The ants in the tree line in your backyard could be there for generations. Your family doesn't think twice about them. The ants aren't a threat to you, you're not a threat to them. You do not care about the ants at all, right?" And that can go on for generations until circumstances change. Like, what if you wake up one day and the ants have figured out how to get under your door? And now they're in your house. They have gotten smarter. They have figured out how to get to a new place.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  That's a problem for you now. Like, circumstances changed very quickly in that analogy, right? And so now you have, you're at a crossroad. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna sweep up the ants and bring them back to where they came from? Are you gonna try to communicate with the ants? Say, hey, stay out there. Or you're just gonna kill the ants?

• 35:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  So there's all these, you know, you gotta, you gotta really think through like how circumstances could change and not just base someone's intention on what the circumstances have been.

• 36:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, no, this is very rational. I still land on the, um, look, if, if, it's like, uh, I used to use this analogy and I don't wanna say the sport because I don't wanna give anybody ideas, but like, because I play concerts, right? Security by and large is a, is a, is a wonderful idea, but it, it actually doesn't work with math. It works on the, the idea that force is there if needed. So you can have 10,000 people in a room. Well, if 10,000 people in a room wanna rush in one direction, the 14 or 24 or 68 security guards and the, and the barrier between them is not gonna stop them. So it's an impression.

• 36:48Billy Corgan?

  So my impression is if you have a superior entity and they want to disrupt or change the course of human life or extinguish it, they're gonna do it whether you want them to or not. So I just don't get caught lost in the existential question. And I'm not saying that just to give my opinion. I'm saying it because I wanna know where you, uh, uh, here's the question. Are you afraid?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  No, I, I think, just like you said, I think that if a far superior and advanced species wanted to cause great harm to us, they could, right?

• 37:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  But I don't think that's a reason not to be prepared.

• 37:25Billy Corgan?

  Four hours, right?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  I think you gotta stay, hope for the best, plan for the worst is the best way to put it.

• 37:30Billy Corgan?

  We're on the same page because it's, it's, it's like when you hear people talk about, what if a comet is heading towards Earth, do we have a plan? And I think even Elon Musk chimed in at some point about, we should have a plan in case there's, you know, we, we don't want to extinguish life because a rock just happens to hit the Earth and it's going to cause devastation. Like the, is it Volstok or something where they had that? You know what I'm talking about? In, in Russia and then you know that the forest for like 10 miles is flat. And so, so lot, the, the logical thing should have been, in my estimation, we should have just sort of figured this out when we figured it out in the 20th century. Pick your date or before and just got on with it. So that, in, I always approach it from my perspective.

• 38:13Billy Corgan?

  And again, somebody's going to get mad at what I'm saying, but it's just like, to me, it's awfully childish and, and look, your film deals with really serious subjects with really serious people. So I don't mean to make light of it, but from my perspective, it's just like, duh, let's just get on with it.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Well, look, there's a lot of good things that can come out of leaning into this.

• 38:33Billy Corgan?

  Please tell me.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Being real.

• 38:34Billy Corgan?

  Cause I'm waiting.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  So like the, the scientific progress that could come out of this, you know, the senior scientists that I interviewed in my film, these are guys who have worked on classified UAP programs for the government. And they talk in detail about the technology that UAP are, are displaying, right? Basically like the things they can do are a result of a technological breakthrough that they have cracked. And if we crack it, we could solve the energy crisis. We could, you know, find ourselves with the ability to do interstellar travel. You know, we could expand our horizons. We, there's, Rubio made a great analogy in my interview with him. That's, it's not in the film, but I'll just tell you what he said. Maybe I'll put it on the internet one day. He, he, he says, when he thinks about what's possible here

• 39:18Speaker 01

  in terms of technological advancements, he thinks about the space race. It was a single mission. Get to the moon, but off the back of it, something like 35,000 inventions

• 39:29Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Came about that were useful in everyday life. There's a laundry list of these things, things that, you know, people take for granted now where it's like, where'd that come from? Oh, off the back of the space race, right? And so he says, who knows what will come out of this, you know?

• 39:43Billy Corgan?

  Well, you know, in, in 2001, the great Kubrick film, of course, the, you know, the, the through line is that, you know, whatever the, the aliens drop or whoever drops the, you know, that it helps man evolve quicker. Do you have any landing on, or any sense of that they've been seeding technology all along? And that maybe they're just feeding us like you feed a child, you know? You don't give them a toy they can't play with.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, something I didn't get into in the film, just simply to keep it at a reasonable runtime.

• 40:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  But, but it was fascinating was that some of the craft of non-human origin that had been recovered were crashes, like we talk about, there's this crash retrieval program, but some of them were almost like gifts. They were found outside military bases in perfect condition.

• 40:31Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  And, you know, when multiple intelligence officials told me about some of these events, it's hard not to get your, your, your imagination going on what, what the intention could be there.

• 40:40Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Is it a, is one, one of the senior scientists in the film says, you know,

• 40:47Speaker 01

  is that something that's only happening here or are the gifts placed at every show nations and it's survival of the fittest? Is it, is it a giant IQ test? Like what, what is it?

• 40:57Billy Corgan?

  Who's, who's the Graham, Graham Hancock, maybe Graham Hancock, right?

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Well, no, the guy who says in my film is Hal Puthoff.

• 41:03Billy Corgan?

  No, no, I'm saying, I'm sure you've seen Grant Hancock's work because, you know, and Sitchen talks about in his books, this idea that, you know, they've been here all along and they're almost like, for lack of a better analogy, parents to a child kind of giving us stuff along the way to kind of tweak our progress technologically and maybe even socially.

• 41:25Billy Corgan?

  Hence, you know, the appearance of all these megaliths all over the world with the same architectural sort of foundations, people taking vast leaps, technological leaps.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 41:36Billy Corgan?

  Even I was reading recently, it was sort of interesting.

• 41:41Billy Corgan?

  And I'm not asking you to subscribe to this, it's just theoretical, the idea that, you know, all of a sudden Egypt makes this huge technological leap during the time of the pharaohs. But the other thing that people don't realize is at some point that technology went out of their system, that whatever happened, happened for a particular period of time, and then they lost the ability to use those technologies if you subscribe that they gained a technology. That there's a, there's a, there's a, there's evidence of no technology, technology, and then people grappling with the loss of ability, how to marshal the technology and kind of stitching together what they can, like whoever they had there that knew how to run stuff. They lost those people, or they lost their tradition, or war wiped out certain information.

• 42:24Billy Corgan?

  And so that actually Egyptian culture went like this in those times because they lost the ability to harness whatever they'd harness. Now, maybe it was just organic, they discovered how to make a battery or whatever. It's certainly conceivable. Anyway.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's fascinating. If you can remember, sorry to put you on the spot, but there's this moment where a gentleman's talking, he's talking about the four hypothesis. Can you just, do you remember what he's talking about? It's like, Congressman Gallagher?

• 42:51Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  In the big open room, he's in the middle.

• 42:54Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, but it's something about, we have four hypotheses, and the fourth hypothesis is all of the above. So it's really three.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So Congressman Gallagher, who is no longer in Congress, actually, he left, and he was a young rock star of Congress. When I interviewed him, he was actually the Chair of the House Intelligence Committee on China and a rising star in government, but he decided to leave for family reasons. He makes a point that, in his opinion, there's,

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Four explanations, either one, a foreign adversary has leapfrogged us technologically by many, many years. And if so, they not only leapfrogged us by many years, but they did it a long time ago.

• 43:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  You know, and that would be the greatest intelligence failure in, you know,

• 43:41Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  human history. Uh, number two, um, there is a rogue group within the United States government military intelligence community that is using taxpayers' money and has basically cracked technology, um, in ways that that is like, seems like science fiction to the average person, and they've kept it to themselves. And we don't know what their intentions are, but, um, they're using it for their own benefit and it's being funded by taxpayers' money.

• 44:11Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Also would be, you know, biggest intelligence failure in human history. Uh, or C, um, we're dealing with life from elsewhere, whether, and he says whether that's extraterrestrial or interdimensional, or they've been here all along. And then four, he says, or it's everything.

• 44:27Billy Corgan?

  All of the above.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  All of the above.

• 44:33Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So the, the reason for the setup is, is what's your hunch?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  I, I think that based on what everyone I interviewed says and goes on the record saying, like, I haven't told officials the film saying, putting the rep on the line, saying they've seen non-human beings with their own eyes. They've seen craft with their own eyes. So my takeaway is 100% there is non-human intelligent life here. They are operating here and they have been operating here a long time. Now I do think that some of what we see is made by our secret program and some of what we see is made by adversary's secret programs. And then some of it is not even intelligent life.

• 45:11Billy Corgan?

  And I hadn't considered, but that makes a lot of sense.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Think it's a complicated landscape.

• 45:15Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Cause some, sometimes I've seen where people are talking about things they've seen outside of area 51 that they initially ascribe to alien technology. And then seven years later, here comes the US government rolling out some new. Plane or yeah, so there does make a certain sense.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  But that said, one of the really interesting moments in the film is when I interviewed General Jim Clapper, who was the head of Air Force Intelligence. He was also the Director of National Intelligence and the head of a lot of other agencies.

• 45:40Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Very, very credible guy.

• 45:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  His resume reads like a, like a Marvel superhero.

• 45:46Billy Corgan?

  He's a, he's a spook spook. Is that, is that a fair estimate?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:50Billy Corgan?

  And we, in music, we say he's a musician's musician.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  There you go. And, and when I interviewed him, he was in his eighties and he had never spoken publicly about this topic, but he felt it was important to participate in the film and share what he lawfully could.

• 46:01Billy Corgan?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  And one of the significant things he says is that UAP activity over our sensitive military bases and training sites where, where we train our pilots is in fact real. And he says, most notably, Area 51. So he goes on the record saying that UAP activity over Area 51 is in fact real. And I thought it was a really key moment in the film because globally, I would say UFO activity, UAP activity over Area 51 is considered the epitome of conspiracy. Right? Largely, people think that's BS. It's not real. And so here was this guy who ran Air Force Intelligence and was in the senior leadership

• 46:44Speaker 01

  for the Air Force for 32, 33 years, something like that, saying, no, that's real. And said it super serious. It's a really powerful moment in the film if you watch it. After he says it, he kind of sits there and thought for a second like, yeah, I just, I just said it. Yeah. And he also, in that same moment, goes on the record saying that when he was running Air Force Intelligence in the nineties, the Air Force did in fact have a program to investigate UAP, which is really significant because the Air Force consistently says they haven't had a program to investigate UAP since Project Blue Book.

• 47:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Wow.

• 47:23Billy Corgan?

  Have you, I'm sure you've been asked this 20 times, but have you ever encountered a UFO phenomenon yourself?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  I have only seen one thing with my own eyes and it was not in some big dramatic experience. I was, I told this story on Joe Rogan recently. I was, I was out at Ojai, just a weekend getaway with my fiance. Beautiful dark skies and we were laying out on a golf course at night, just looking up at the stars and I saw what looked like a satellite moving slow. I was convinced it was a satellite. Just a normal satellite and then this thing just rocketed off and satellites don't do that.

• 47:58Billy Corgan?

  What you call in your film instantaneous acceleration.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:04Billy Corgan?

  The reason I bring it up is because I have a similar experience. The Pumpkins, the Pumpkins were playing New Orleans, somewhere around 1994. And one of the band members called and said, you gotta come to my room. And we were looking out over the water. I guess it's the bay or Gulf of Mexico. And we watched for at least 20 to 25 minutes.

• 48:26Billy Corgan?

  Something that was throwing off a lot of color, looked about a mile out into the water and it would sit there and just kind of do, you know, I've seen similar footage where it's like, it looks like it's almost like a I started to explain, have you seen it?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:40Billy Corgan?

  And, and then this thing would take off like a rocket, like moving at speeds that were, I mean, it was just like, like, you know, to illustrate, it was like you'd be watching it go like this. And you'd see it start to accelerate and it would just go

• 48:52Billy Corgan?

  But what it made it interesting is it would return at a similar speed to the exact spot and it did over and over again. And we watched for over 20 minutes.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 49:00Billy Corgan?

  To where, to where it became routine, where it was like, it didn't do anything but that. But the entire time you're like, what am I watching? Of course I want to remember this. And over and over again, this then is acceleration. Boom, come back, boom, take off. It was shot up, come back down. And this just went on.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 49:16Billy Corgan?

  So I, I at least, I was like, okay, at least I've seen instantaneous acceleration. Who knows what it was? A UAP, to use your parlance.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  By the way, there's a lot of activity in that part of the world.

• 49:30Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:32Billy Corgan?

  Any, any supposition on why?

• 49:36Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 49:37Billy Corgan?

  They like shrimp?

• 49:41Billy Corgan?

  Okay, we're almost done. Thank you.

• 49:48Billy Corgan?

  Tell me if I'm saying this wrong because I want you to say it where you're comfortable. If if there was a suppressing force for over 70 years, they knew something and they suppressed that information. And to your point, they actively went out and told people to shut up. They threaten people. And in some cases, there's intimations that they killed people. Who who was doing the suppressing?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  So in my film, a number of the intelligence officials I interview go on the record saying that the legacy program consists of elements of the CIA, the Air Force, the Department of Energy, and major defense contractors. Now, to be clear, it doesn't mean these entire entities are in on this. It just means elements of these different groups are in on it.

• 50:35Billy Corgan?

  But even like, sorry, but it's like, who makes the call? Bob, we want you in the program. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, it can't be if it was just one wizard behind the curtain, we could kind of put but there's obviously been multiple wizards behind this curtain.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  So some of the intelligence officials in the film say they break down the role each of these organizations play in this. And they describe the CIA as the quarterback of it, you know, operational control, right? And then they specifically say someone with a certain job title at that agency oversees this.

• 51:10Billy Corgan?

  But basically above the presidents because they're not telling the presidents what's happening, right? That's the general.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  So, you know, Rubio breaks down in the film how even presidents are on a need to know basis about this. They might be told some base details or told it's going to go in this direction. But, you know, they're just they're viewed as temporary.

• 51:27Billy Corgan?

  Does that it blows my mind. Maybe I'm, you know, I grew up.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Shocking to hear. I mean, I interviewed I was the one doing all the interviews. I'm sitting this close to Rubio and saying this. It's extraordinary.

• 51:36Billy Corgan?

  It's kind of, I guess, I find in a way more frightening than the idea of aliens is this idea that there is somebody, we don't know who they are, or some people, a group that are making decisions that we have no say in this.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:51Billy Corgan?

  And that at some point, following the lead of the thing, that at some point. Eighty years ago or before, they got in a room and said, we have to do, not only do we have to do something that on paper seems illegal, right? We're going to work around the congressional authority. If the president's the commander in chief and the president doesn't know.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Well, one, you know, I've had a lot of conversations, obviously, about this, separate to what's on camera in the film. But there's always the possibility that a president put this in motion, you know, that a president in the 40s said.

• 52:26Billy Corgan?

  So maybe Eisenhower turned to somebody and said, you got to do this. And oh, by the way, the next guy or the next girl can't know.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Well, if there's a presidential order, it just stays on the books. So we might uncover that a president puts this in motion in the 40s and everyone involved in this has just been doing their job.

• 52:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  And there is no, there is no.

• 52:47Billy Corgan?

  Oh, so it's not technically illegal?

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's actually highly unlikely that it's illegal. It's highly likely.

• 52:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  That they checked all the boxes legally to do this. The other thing to remember, and I think it's important anytime to talk about this, this, this operation known as the legacy program. I do not think these people are villains, just to be clear. Like, I think these are people that were put in a very unique situation.

• 53:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Where there's no playbook and they were told, hey, it's in the best interest of the nation to go about things this way.

• 53:22Billy Corgan?

  So, so.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Now, what I think we've gotten to a place where it's ramped out of control and where there needs to be a course correction.

• 53:28Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  And I think what's happening now is very real, high level conversations about how do we get these people to come clean and say what they have learned.

• 53:38Billy Corgan?

  So.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  And, and to do that, you really got to give, whether it's, I don't know if the correct word is.

• 53:43Billy Corgan?

  Immunity.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Amnesty or immunity. They're technically different, right? But, you know, some level of forgiveness and put the past in the past for the greater, the interest of the greater good.

• 53:58Billy Corgan?

  I'm asking you to speculate, but what do you think? If you're, if you think you're on the good side of the, the equation here. It's, it is legal. I've been drafted in this program. I can't tell my wife. I can't tell my kids. I can't, I can't talk about this. What do you think those people are telling themselves that, that they're? What's their inner rationalization that they're the good guy or the good girl in this?

• 54:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I think it's the same logic that any intelligence or military official tells themselves. Like if you, if you sign up to join the army and you get sent to war, you don't get to weigh in on whether we should be at war.

• 54:37Billy Corgan?

  It's, it's duty and, and it's good for Americans.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Duty, you, you, you, you've committed to a service, right? So I think that that is what's been going on. I do think that a lot of those people who are involved feel like these fundamental truths they're aware of, like the we're not alone in the universe should be known by other people. And I think that's why you see, you read in the newspaper that whistleblowers are going and talking to senior senators in classified settings and telling them what they know. I, I personally have learned of a lot of very high level whistleblowers who have gone and had private conversations with certain specific senior leadership that, you know, never get in the press. Like it's a real situation that's playing out.

• 55:15Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Two more things here.

• 55:23Billy Corgan?

  Rightly so. Your film deals with it from a pragmatic organizational government. You know, let's call it the infrastructure of authority and the, and the, and the gravitas of, you know, this is the US government and we're adversarial things and all this. But do you believe personally, or even professionally is not the right word? Just as somebody who's put all this together into one cogent package. Do you believe that the spiritual part of the equation needs to be considered? And what I'm, what I mean by that is not how does this affect my view of Jesus? It, it's, it's to, does the consideration that mean we might be dealing with something more akin?

• 56:06Billy Corgan?

  And you do briefly touch on it in the film. I don't want to make it as simple as angels or demons, but that our perception of the supernatural. There might be an overlay here that's that's a far broader question. That actually does get to the heart of the military question. Which is trying to decide sort of like the order of the cosmos. Does that make sense? A very broad question.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 56:29Billy Corgan?

  Okay, good.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  I do think that. A lot that has been sort of like. Couch does or like put in a box as like supernatural or or paranormal. I think a lot of that.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Is. Of the same of as this, right? All one of the same.

• 56:48Billy Corgan?

  It does kind of seem to explain stuff.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then. Which essentially when I say all the same, I mean, like life from elsewhere. You know, just life that we haven't understood yet, right? Whether that means interdimensional, extraterrestrial.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Been here all along, you know, crypto terrestrial, they call it. There's a lot of different options.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  And in terms of religion. Look, it's hard. It's hard to go down this road and not. Find similarities between. UAP events and activity and certain things that are in the Bible, right? So maybe. Maybe at some point.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Things that are written about in the Bible were actually just. You know, experiences with life from elsewhere.

• 57:33Billy Corgan?

  I can never say, right, it's the Mahabharata or whatever. It's the it's it's like an Indian. Spiritual text. There's talk about flying beings in there.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  There's.

• 57:42Billy Corgan?

  Well, Ezekiel's wheel and. The pillar of fire and. So it's interesting to postulate. Okay. Last thing, it's a personal thing.

• 57:51Billy Corgan?

  I was in a relationship with somebody back in the day and. They'd been they'd been a Russian national but had immigrated and. And at some point, some family had come over from what was the former Soviet Union.

• 58:07Billy Corgan?

  And I found myself sitting across from a gentleman who'd been a rear admiral in the Russian Navy. Didn't speak a word of English. And so I'm, you know, I'm elbowing my, my partner at the time, saying, will you please ask about aliens?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 58:24Billy Corgan?

  And, and I got the, you know, like, don't put him on the spot. And I was like, I gotta ask, I mean, the guy's sitting across from me. And this would have been over, over 20 years ago. And, um, and so finally, the question is asked in, in Russian. And so, you know, my first reception of what the gentleman is saying is just his, his demeanor. And so, da, da, da, da, and he goes,

• 58:52Billy Corgan?

  and I'm thinking, I'm going to get this, well, you know, we don't know. And, and no, what he said is, oh yeah, every day. He goes, it's so common, our encounters with off-world technology or whatever. He goes, we have to have codes and things, otherwise we're going to blow each other up. He goes, it's so normal, it's not even a big deal. So, not to over explain it, but his demeanor was so relaxed and I didn't know what he was saying. Then when I put his demeanor together with what he actually said, translated, I was like, wow.

• 59:33Billy Corgan?

  That was the first time I was like, okay, I'm not crazy because the way I feel, which is, it's obvious. But here was somebody who deals with it on a very high governmental level.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  So the, the experience you experienced was, was what it was like for me going down this rabbit hole.

• 59:45Billy Corgan?

  That's kind of why I brought it up.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  I have 34 people in the film, but I also spoke to dozens of other people who weren't comfortable going on camera for one reason or another. Some people actually felt like they're, told me that their lives would be in jeopardy if they did. But I had so many sources that are extremely credible people. You look at these people's resumes and you're just like, yeah, it's like a movie character.

• 1:00:04Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  It's insane, right? Like one high level position after another, and they're telling you these extraordinary things. And it lines up with what every other credible person you're talking to is telling you privately, you know? And then some of them share it publicly.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  There's clearly a there there, it's a real situation.

• 1:00:21Billy Corgan?

  Okay, well, next time we talk, age of disclosure two.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Let's see what happens.

• 1:00:26Billy Corgan?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 1:00:27Billy Corgan?

  Great talking.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Appreciate it.

• 1:00:28Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  You too. It was awesome.