Aaron Taylor-Johnson

Aaron Taylor-Johnson doesn't do anything half-way. A chameleon in a leading man's body, he's also assembled quite the superhero resume, from KICK-ASS to Pietro and now to KRAVEN THE HUNTER. He covers it all with Josh in ths rare extended conversation. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  You're one of the few one-and-done MCU characters, especially in this multiverse we're living in. The fact that they have never had a conversation with you about coming back. Or have they? That's a convenient sip of coffee that just happened.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, maybe not everything's out there then.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 0:52Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Aaron Taylor-Johnson is back. It's been far too long since he's been on the podcast. The good news is, it's been a bad news year for you, Aaron. We've got the fall guy early on, we have Nosferatu, and now, the big one.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:08Josh Horowitz?

  Craven the Hunter.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Craven the Hunter.

• 1:10Josh Horowitz?

  Ready to dive in, man?

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm ready to dive in, Josh. Yeah, thanks, man. Thanks for having me on the show.

• 1:15Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you again. Last time I saw you in person, a little bit of a different vibe. 4,000 people, New York Comic Con.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  We were on Comic Con, we're in New York, yeah.

• 1:23Josh Horowitz?

  Stage full of wannabe Cravens trying to take your job.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  We had a lot of cosplay going on, yeah. It's a new word I've learned, this thing called cosplay.

• 1:33Josh Horowitz?

  What was that like for you? I mean, that's...

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Dude, it was really overwhelming, but flattering. And actually, you just come out and you really get a sense that there's a lot of love and support. And rather than feeling my usual, which is to kind of like...

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Uh, back away and show it. I I actually, it's I think it was, it's some, there's this weird moment where you have to feel it's important to sort of uh receive. I think and I'm not someone who's very good at receiving. Um, and in that moment, I felt like even though my body was shaking. Quite honestly, in the backseat, and it's quite funny because we were go, oh, you seem so comfortable out there. I'm like, no, dude. The whole body is like, um, you don't really know what to expect. And anyway, you step out. And uh, yeah, it was a an o- a wave of love and support and energy and um and excitement and anticipation. And I think um, it was a really nice moment. Oh, sorry. It was a really nice moment at the end of it.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Because obviously, we'd we'd started to show the footage and by that point, uh, this was the first bit of footage we've ever shown anybody. And it was the beginning of the movie, the first eight minutes of the movie. And um, and then extra little sort of action sequences. Um, and and uh. And it got such a great reaction. And I think there was a moment of like, ah, relief of like, yeah, I mean, for my director and my producers and and I'm like. Years in the making and. Oh, yeah, years in the making. Uh, our head of the studio, Tom Rothman, was there. You know, there there were high stakes there in that moment and and it felt like we as a family.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Came to deliver something that we wholeheartedly are very proud of and excited to share. And I think. You know, there's a lot of conversation around Sony Sony Marvel movies that have come out and and and it's a reputation that we. Are trying to, you know, we really wanna um rewrite that narrative with with by showing quali- quali- quality work, right? Quality stuff and and kind of going, okay, we hear you. Because I think there's got to be a dialogue at some point. Is it, we've got to listen. And and the beauty is, we really have, we really have listened and we're really taken in. To a certain degree, right, you've got to, you know, but I think you take in this.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  When you're, and I feel this, maybe this is more me personally, I don't know, I shouldn't really speak for others, but like. I feel there's a responsibility when you step into the shoes of a comic book character that's, you know, it's got that Marvel stamp. You know, it's high standards and you have a duty to deliver, you know, you really do have to. And I would never have stepped into these shoes had I felt like I couldn't. Um, put my all into it and, you know, we want it to have emotion and heart and like. Depth and layer to this character and then obviously there's that physical element and. And one of those things um was trying, we really tried.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  You know, the, it was, we couldn't squeeze this thing into a PG thirteen box, you know. At some point, it was like, it was, it was uh limiting us to tell the story, not only on the action, like everyone's seen some. Stuff in the trailers, it's like, well, that's, that's our.

• 5:00Josh Horowitz?

  Which is overall intensity to the material.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Overall intensity, when you're dealing with adult themes and the stories of like. You know, Craven's backstory and his family trauma is real, like he's got like, you know, a head. Mafia mobster father um and his mother's um mentally unwell and. Um, and you can get that from the comic books and stuff and and for those fans, they'll understand that, but it it gives such context. To why Sergey Kravenov goes on this path of villainy and also. The psychological damage that he's doing as he goes along the way of trying to fight injustice.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  And be this vigilante, after a while, the effects and the and the actions are gonna uh lead up to some consequences, so. But I think, you know, we have, you carry that weight where you just like. We have a lot to deliver and in that moment.

• 6:01Josh Horowitz?

  Exhale.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  New York Comic Con.

• 6:02Josh Horowitz?

  First test audience basically said, we we see you, you have brought us.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was that moment where we just, it it all came to uh.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  fruition?

• 6:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  fruition. Um, in that moment, it became like, yeah, we we've arrived at a place where we all feel um. Yeah, very, very excited and proud and um, that's a good feeling because uh.

• 6:29Josh Horowitz?

  We put a lot of work into this needles to say, knowing your work.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  We've put a lot into it, yeah, and I think we care because it's it's it's such a shame when when these things get done and then. Out and they dumped and bomb and then you go, well, what was that all for? And and I think we J C Shandor is a filmmaker, he's a director who tells great stories and. And this is a fantastic studio and and understand great movies too and. You're somewhere down the line, we just, you know, we've had, we just, you we've we've really put um our efforts into it and and the intention, right? Is to make a character that has legs to stand on in a sense of like. Yes, there's his first movie, right? People go, well, you know, where is it going? You go, no, I ideally, we're setting you up on a beautiful journey.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Come see this first movie and I promise you it won't disappoint, especially for the fans who really wanna see the trajectory. Of where Craven the Hunter can go, we can go there, especially because we've set it up in this R rated.

• 7:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Um, origin story, it allows you to give all of the information, gives you the empathy and the depth of this character. So can he dive around other places? Yeah, sure, of course he can. We've set him up in a way that is he's got uh real strong roots.

• 7:46Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I will say, like, I come at this, I know you weren't a comic book kid, but I was a comic book kid and Craven meant.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  He was a what kid?

• 7:51Josh Horowitz?

  A comic book kid.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you said a complicated kid.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  That too. We don't have that kind of time though today now.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Well, I was a very complicated kid.

• 7:59Josh Horowitz?

  You can go there too if you want, um, but this comic, I remember Craven's Last Hunt, I I read that when I was like eleven years old.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Whoa, that must have been quite um, a lot to really kind of digest as well, because it's really heavy.

• 8:10Josh Horowitz?

  Spoiler alert, and I think a lot of people watching or listening know where that goes.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  It's the end of his journey.

• 8:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Let's just put it that way, you know?

• 8:17Josh Horowitz?

  I did not, I was, I had never dealt with that subject in my life.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:20Josh Horowitz?

  And as a, as an eleven year old seeing. That in comic book form. So I guess my question is, and look, I'm excited that this movie exists. And I know people will keep asking you about that comic because it is, it's a special piece of work.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  It's a really brilliant story.

• 8:34Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel like Sony has, like, would actually go there? Do you feel like they would go where they need to go for Craven's Last Hunt?

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Let me tell you that firstly, right, that story, Craven's Last Hunt, is not only one of my favorites. It's J C's favorites too. And the beauty of that story is it's not, it is not like any other comic book out there. Like, I don't really know a character that big, that well, like, established, that has gone, there's the end. There's your end of the journey. And you go, whoa, it just hits you in such a different, powerful way. Cause it's bold. It's someone who, you know, when they wrote that, they went, it's, I mean, it's an interesting story about that one. But, but that's a really bold story. And I think that would make for an absolute stunning movie to bring to the screen.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Like, a story to bring to the screen, sorry. And would I love to play that? Yes, a hundred percent. Of course I would, right? I think that is ideally, that is the, the, the peak of the mountain, shall we say, right? So, okay, so we've got a story out there. We've got source material that spans, you know, from the 50s and all the way through.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  That stands as like a beacon for like J C and I especially. And yeah, of course, I think there's a studio that are definitely, you know, they're not, they're, you know, they understand the trajectory of a franchise, right? Of course they want that. But they understand how important the first movie is, right? And the audience is for that matter. And you can't cheat the audience. You can't just tell them there's gonna be three in the running. Do you know what I mean? You can't do that. You gotta, you gotta, yeah, you gotta give them a decent, fantastic story in the first place. And it's, and it's only gonna hold up on that, right? And I think that's fair. I think that's realistic and that's actually what it should be. Like, I'm not,

• 10:30Speaker 02

  I have realistic expectations as to like, let's just see how this sits aloud. Because if the audience don't. Click to it, if they don't draw to it, then then then we haven't got somewhere to go really with it, but um. You know, so you've got to be realistic, um. But we took that, you take that element, you take the end of this character's journey and you go, right, let's go to the very beginning. But how did we get, how did he get that?

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Dark and complicated, complex and layered and dealing with so many different. Egos, mental health, depression, like it just goes there, it goes so. Dark in a way that is just exciting to take a character. Of a Marvel world and and give it relatability on such a depth and a level and. For me and J C, it was like, let's plant the seed of that in this movie, let's give it like roots to hold on to. Let's give this character something that um that has the opportunity to go there. Which is why it's a big thing, yeah, you know, this is why there's a sort of a buzz around like.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, is he a villain or is he an anti-hero? It's like, well, yeah, he's a protagonist protagonist of our story, right? He is our hero of our story, right? Um, and you you root for this character, you feel empathy for this character. Um, but yes, he will be a villain and he will be the most incredible villain because we've given him. We've, you know, the birth story is here and it can, we can go somewhere, which is so much more exciting.

• 12:11Josh Horowitz?

  And to make us, get us to empathize with where this guy goes is gonna make, hopefully, if you get there, all the more powerful.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  How complicated would that be that you're rooting for the villain? Like you start to kind of go, no, your methods are complex and the more he goes down that road. And I don't want to give plot spoilers away, but we've we've, it's it's rich and it's there's some twists and turns in there. And there's things that are gonna just more conflict, more drama, more obstacles in his way that are just gonna. Put him down that path deeper and deeper on that journey and for me, I'm like.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  For me, I'm really excited about taking that on the road in a way that could be like. And you know, and for fans, for audiences, like, I get the question a lot of like, well, who's he gonna be with? You know, alright, and you go, great, cool, he can be with anybody, he can be with any of the comic book characters you've read. Yes, there's Sinister Six, yes, there's some other characters, you know, out there, and you just kinda go, that's for you guys, I'm not, you know. I can tell you, that Craven's Last Hunt is incredible, right, that's if that's the end of the journey, like, there's some, there's some, there's some.

• 13:22Josh Horowitz?

  Steps along the way.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  There's a journey there. Why wouldn't you want, why shouldn't, why couldn't we go down that way if it's, if it's interesting enough? So anyway, all of that said, that's why it's exciting, because we, so we, we knew that we had to breathe so much life into this first movie, it has to be detail oriented, it needed to have empathy and depth and and, and there's an intention, the intention is to, to

• 13:53Speaker 02

  have, have longevity.

• 13:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Um, and that's something that's exciting for me, because it's a very rare thing, especially to to do in your career and commit to, and put yourself out there like that, because sometimes, you know, they can stop short.

• 14:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Um, so what does that do for you in your career or choices of other things that are going on? But the way I see it is, is like, I've, I've done my part.

• 14:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right, put in a lot of work for this first one.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's now to you guys, and like, enjoy it, like, enjoy it, like, and, and if it kicks up a buzz and it kicks up an excitement to go further with it and be a part of something else, I'm down, I'll be there, we'll, we'll do it, and and in between that, I'm gonna continue to work on very different things.

• 14:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  And other directors, and, and I have been this year, in order to have some nice variety of things out there. Cause I, I need that creative consistency of, of doing something unique and different, and so, um.

• 14:57Josh Horowitz?

  You're doing a good job of that, as always. I mean, so, so we've, we've been talking for many years, the first time I talked to you was for Kick Ass, talking about Yeah. comic book movies, I mean, for a guy that didn't grow up with comic books.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Didn't, no.

• 15:07Josh Horowitz?

  You've got a lot of comic.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  I was a complicated kid, you were a comic book kid.

• 15:12Josh Horowitz?

  So if you'll indulge me, I want to go down memory lane a little bit with respect to the superhero stuff. Matthew Vaughn, quite an interesting character.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Very interesting character.

• 15:21Josh Horowitz?

  He's done the podcast a couple of times. I know from talking to Taran and others, like, he's not a guy that's like necessarily a nurturing like presence on set. He identifies talent very well, but he's not going to coddle you.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  No, he has got a quite paternal way of doing it, but yes, it's not in, he's not, he doesn't smother.

• 15:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right. So was that, talk to me a little bit about the learning experience on that, which.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  On, sorry.

• 15:46Josh Horowitz?

  On Kick Ass.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  On Kick Ass, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, like I said, he does have a paternal side and I think he, and a mentoring side. And I think you really got to look at, I mean, I think he doesn't get much credit for this, but the careers he's actually put out there, I mean, even, I mean, Daniel Craig, Lay a Cake. Let's just start with that one. I mean, there, that wasn't just coincidence there. That was a stepping stone in that direction for, for.

• 16:15Josh Horowitz?

  That bond doesn't happen if work isn't happening, totally, yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, I mean, there's, there's, there's moments in that movie where you, you kind of go, oh, you've just seen something you can't erase. And I think there was, and I know intention, the intention for Matthew at that time making that was in the spirit of that, right?

• 16:37Speaker 02

  But, you know, you can do that. People can try that in many different ways, whether it works or not, you know, but,

• 16:44Speaker 02

  but the point is, yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Daniel, for me, Kick Ass was an entry point into adolescent America, I guess, in a way. Like I'd done movies already and done very different things, but I was sort of reintroduced in a different way on a time.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  But also as this sort of American high school kind of kid, sort of guy next door, not really, you know, like.

• 17:12Josh Horowitz?

  All but casting directors assumed you were American. I mean, you were so, like, you're so, I mean, we now know this. But at the time, I think people didn't realize how chameleon-ic you could be with accents and et cetera.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, obviously I was playing also an awkward high school kid, comic book reader, you know. And and so I, you know, created this person that.

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  I see the physicality coming back.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Good and mean, but like, you know, so it's funny because I come from a whole different like active dance background and all sorts of things like. But no one would assume. So it's kind of funny because people go, look at the guy who's going to kick ass to do Craven. Like, look at that. And it's like, well, actually, I'm a shapeshifter.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  Closer to the.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  I'm a shapeshifter and like, the beauty of that is in back in that day when you're talking about no one really knew. There's a mystery there. You can't really have much mystery in this sort of, you know, digital age, as it were. You were talking about before in a in a sense that, yeah, you have to be like. Um, someone who's still approachable in between jobs. But actually, when I go in, I I really enjoy going into different characters. And some of them aren't pleasant, like they just aren't, you know, they're not to be, you know, and and.

• 18:24Josh Horowitz?

  Notional animals. That guy's a charmer. He's sweet.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Charismatic serial killer. Um, you know, and so. You know, and I think that's what has obviously built my career is is having um a sort of this sort of bizarre varied thing. But at the same time, I also, I also took a sabbatical. I took a very long step back. Uh, there's a good 10 year period where I really wasn't, I was saying no to a lot of material. And um, in yeah intentionally because I was a father at home and really wanted to raise my children. And um, and and also I think there's a moment where.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  You can, I'm just speaking truthfully here, by the way. Um, there's a, there's a, you, there's a moment where, you know, success is, uh, is, is, is something you can see, sort of see.

• 19:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  And in a sense of like what, where you've come to a place where you like, you're really just happy, enjoying and you, you know, casting directors are calling for you, directors wanna work with you. That's how I sort of value success, rather than like fame or that sort of shit, cause I think that's toxic and it's, there's, that's an ego testicle thing, right? If you're comfortably being, um, in the industry, someone that, um, filmmakers wanna work with, that's, that's great success. But I was putting the foot on the brakes a bit, you know, and, um.

• 19:55Josh Horowitz?

  Were you worried that they wouldn't come back calling? Like, was there ever a concern like, I need to be?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  It's a good question and, um, I think, um, um, I think deep down I felt like there was always, I could always, um, there was space for me somewhere along the line, somewhere. Um, and, uh, but I think, um, after the pandemic, um, and

• 20:27Speaker 02

  not being, not work, not being creative in a way where I was sort of in detriment to like, like the way I needed to be, um, fulfilling my own sort of, sort of creative satisfaction journey. I think I was like, right, I, I wanna, I wanna dive in and get a bit more involved. I was really missing that collaboration and fun to be had with other actors and scene partners, but other directors and things like that. And, um, so, yeah, I don't know how we got on the path for this. I was, there was a reason, I, I think I came to.

• 20:59Josh Horowitz?

  I think it was, it was, no, it was speaking to just, um.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Just careers how they were born. Yeah, cause obviously, so to go back to Matthew, yeah, you know,

• 21:09Speaker 02

  I mean, Taron Egerton, you know, is a, a fine example of a fantastic career and actor who you see is, uh, growth, but it, it. Matthew, you know, very beautifully put him on the map in. And not just that film, other films that he's produced, right, and written and stuff.

• 21:29Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true that when I spoke to him, he didn't recall this, but then when I said it, he kind of rang a bell. Did you either go up for Kingsman or turn it down? Were you in the mix to play that role?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  So I'm, I'm, I'm.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, here's the thing, I think, you know.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Things happen for a reason, and I think there are very clear lines on that. And there is no, there is no good for me sort of saying things that I've been for or not been for or, or. So I'm, you know, again, I'm not gonna answer that question, cause it actually doesn't. And I'm vague enough that it doesn't actually answer, cause there are so many

• 22:09Speaker 02

  opportunities that come about, right? And, and, and, and there are things that, and you've got to remember, I grew up on, on, on, on a London casting scene with like Dan Kaluuya.

• 22:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Jack O'Connell, Nicholas Holt, you know, you know, Joe Dempsey, we're all.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  You, you, we all went in for practically all the same stuff.

• 22:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Some of us would get the job and then they'd be off working wherever that was. And then, and then you might get a job or this other thing that happened there. And everyone was so, there was, it was like this abundance of like, there's so much kind of going around. Like, we were just, but, but, but bouncing off each other's energy. And there's sometimes I think about those days because it was the hustle. It was the days where we were like teenage, I mean, we were like fifteen, like younger. And I was younger, I started a little bit younger, like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen on London's like in and out of castings. Almost one, two, three a day for like five times a week. Like there was abundance, like, and it could be commercials, TV, film, what have you. And one of, one of them would break, like, when people used to say, you know, one out of one hundred.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  When people say like, oh, giving me advice, it's like, you just, you know, they're like, don't give up. I mean, there's, because rejection is a big part of it and you have to grow a thick skin.

• 23:32Josh Horowitz?

  The best actors get rejected nine times out of ten, if you're lucky.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, but also there's like criticism, isn't there? There's like creative, healthy criticism and you. But you grow in that way and you get experience and that's kind of fun, but. But what I mean is there's a level playing field and and and you really get to start to appreciate each other's work. Like, I admire Jack's like work is so fantastic. That guy is so raw and like unpredictable and beautiful to watch. It's it uh the same for Nick, like the fact that I get to um be in a movie with Nick, you know, so much later on in. In our lives and and and we play friends in Nosferatu, sort of close um uh buddies that grew up together. So that it felt really nice for us to do that. But he.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Nicholas Holt is absolutely extraordinary in this Robert Eggers movie in Nosferatu. I mean, it literally makes me well up because he's.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  It's because because also I feel emotional because I see um. Sorry, uh this trajectory of all the work that he's done, do you know what I mean? So to kind of like um to kind of see that. And that growth and and and him doing like um. Uh like the favourite and finding that comedic side of himself and then.

• 24:50Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God, the great was amazing.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Into the great and you can see this.

• 24:53Josh Horowitz?

  Now it's all happening.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  And then, you know, during number two and the order and just such um. Varied stuff and I think, you know, it's like, he's like, there's this, like, he's like arrived on the scene in a way that's come from.

• 25:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  So people kind of, oh, I know that actor now. I really love that stuff. But he's been on the journey for a long time, but. It's the hours and the experience and that length and that dedication and he's just one of those beautiful human beings that. He's a um a great actor to um be around on set like a respectable person, right? And and I think in our industry, we very quickly. Not very quickly, unfortunately. We wanna, you wanna weed, you know, you wanna kinda weed out the divas and the bad ones and.

• 25:39Josh Horowitz?

  There's enough talent out there, we don't need the assholes.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Right, it really, there really is no need for it. You come and say, and you go, no, we get to make things of dreams. You know, it's like that, that old fucking thing. It's just like, we actually, we get to make magic, that's a gift.

• 25:54Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Like, we all get to play fun. This is like, this is great. So why, and there's no reason to be like horrible or be, you know, in a certain way on set or have egos. But anyway. He is extraordinary. And in this movie, he's absolutely.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Just, um, I, I, I literally need, I, I, I wanna, I, I wanna, I've, we, I've watched it a couple of times now, but I, I just, it's almost like I wanna study how he came to navigate in these scenes. They're so, so beautifully crafted and, um, he's just, he's just a wonderful person. But my point is, is that you, everyone has their own right and ability to, to make what they have and bring their character to the, to the thing and bring their character off the page.

• 26:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  So Taran, I, Nick, Jack, what, you know, we, things come about, you know? Things don't work for one another, someone else picks him up. And then you watch and go, oh my God, I would never have even thought about it in that way. I wouldn't have delivered it that way.

• 26:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  And that's not to say that's the wrong way. Or a right way. It's just you kinda go, fuck, I really appreciate how they've like owned that character.

• 27:06Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  People make charac, yeah, people make iconic characters by putting their imprint into them. So there's no, there's no, it's all individual. There's no like replicating. That's what people believe that they can like, oh, I can do that better. It's like, no, you can't. You can't. You actually can't.

• 27:23Josh Horowitz?

  You literally can't because they're bringing their own essence to it.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's a lie. Um, and that, and I think that is where it's like, that's just envy, that's projection, that's whatever. You know, it's just shit. You know, it's just like, I, I, you know, and that's not productive. It's not growth either. Like, it's just, um. It's this resentment, right? And I think you see some of those actors and they just sort of drift away. Which is why, you know, the beauty is and the emotional thing for me is to see Nick, see Dan Kaluuya, it's to see Jack O'Connell, to see all my buddies, you know, have their own solid individual careers and ones that I watch and love and enjoy and admire, you know, so that's a true blessing.

• 28:10Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to hear the Mutual Admiration Society. I'm also a member of the Nick Holt Appreciation Society, so I'm with you a thousand percent.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  I don't know anybody who isn't. He's got this, yeah.

• 28:27Josh Horowitz?

  You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without spending a fortune. Their cashmere sweaters start at just 60 bucks, and they've got everything from great down jackets and wool coats to cashmere scarves and accessories. Basically, everything you need to stay warm and look good this winter. And they're using really premium materials at Quince. We're talking at 100% Mongolian cashmere, Italian leather, even 14-karat gold.

• 29:10Josh Horowitz?

  These are the kinds of things that make great gifts, but also that make people actually use them, right? And wear long after the holidays. And here's the best part. Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands. How do they do it? Well, they work directly with ethical factories and they cut out the middlemen. So you're getting that luxury quality without paying those crazy luxury prices. I love how functional and fashionable all my Quince stuff is. I've got a cashmere hoodie that is honestly invaluable and actually makes me look like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to fashion, and that is a miracle. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

• 29:55Josh Horowitz?

  It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show. If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager. And thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy Say Confuse, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody.

• 30:40Josh Horowitz?

  So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance. That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans. So the average copay, I can't get over this. It's just 15 bucks a session. So basically, two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal, if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you, to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  This can all happen right away, guys. With Rula, appointments are often available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists. There's no frustrating back and forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A, dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.

• 31:54Josh Horowitz?

  Moving through the comic book world that you want to mention, of course, Ultron and Pietro, which, again, if you read The War, it's said that it took some convincing to get you...

• 32:03Speaker 02

  If you read The what?

• 32:04Josh Horowitz?

  The War, the rumors, the internet that never fails to be accurate.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I can't, sometimes I might, The War?

• 32:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's my enunciation, not your.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm, I'm, if I read the what, sorry.

• 32:19Josh Horowitz?

  If you read the interwebs, Aaron.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Okay, yes, sir.

• 32:23Josh Horowitz?

  It is said that it took some convincing, a lot of convincing for you to take that role. Is that true or were you on board from the start?

• 32:30Speaker 02

  No, probably, yeah. Joss Whedon came to me, you're right, yeah. Yeah, I mean.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  So I had just accepted a role with Gareth Edwards as Godzilla.

• 32:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  And I think for me, that was the first time I felt like I was, which is bizarre, because I think if you think about Shanghai Knights and Kick Ass, they have been sort of studio movies, but I feel like it was a big sort of quote unquote blockbuster franchisey sort of thing.

• 32:58Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  And I got asked to do that and I believe in my head, it was like, there's this moment where you're like, oh, am I,

• 33:12Speaker 02

  am I gonna step into commercial stuff and become a bit of a sellout, you know? Am I gonna, you know, like, my career was like, you know, I want to be the next, you know.

• 33:22Josh Horowitz?

  Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Daniel Day-Lewis, Gary Oldman, Christian Bale or whatever. But I mean, if you look at Christian Bale, Batman, do you know what I mean? So there is a trajectory there, you can still be an elevated actor in other things, right? And that's the, that's the joy, right? If you can mix it up, then, then you've done, you've balanced it right.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  But basically, you kind of go, no, I'm a British actor, I'm gonna do indie, dark stuff, and I'm gonna do, you know, real drama and stuff like that. And, you know, and.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Good on, if you can, if you can have a solid career like that, then yeah, you're a master.

• 33:56Josh Horowitz?

  Easier said than done. In this environment, in 21st century, not really.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like this sort of whole weird thing where people are like, yeah, the cape and the spandex ain't for me, sort of like convo, and you're like. Maybe if it's in front of you, you know, I don't know, right? Because the irony is like the irony, you know, it's like. Maybe it didn't come your way then.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Maybe you haven't been presented it then because um because what you're really doing is just denying yourself of choice, right? And options and opportunities, right? And I think um anyway, the Godzilla thing came to me. I'm denier about it. I went, do you know what? I feel really uncomfortable about this sort of, is this a step? Is this a thing, you know? Over analyzed it, you know, probably like twenty or something, twenty one or something. And felt like, actually, because it there was another film, actually. I do remember now that I turned down to do that. And of course, um, which was a lot more um. Was a lot more of a grittier drama character and things like that, right? So it definitely was this moment where you've been given the the options, right?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  But I decided to go that route because I believed in Gareth Edwards as a filmmaker. I thought, well, if anyone's going to do something interesting, let's do it. Um, so that kind of came in and then Joss came about and after about Avengers and this character. And I think it took about a year, about a year's worth of sort of chatting and negotiations and things like that and.

• 35:29Josh Horowitz?

  Was there a real leaf when he when he said, it's just one film? I'm not, you don't have to.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm going to ask you. Does that what what's the, I mean, because I haven't read the whatever you just said.

• 35:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, that's what it says, basically, that it took about a year. Quite convincing, yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, good. So for me, it for me, I was very much like I didn't feel comfortable at that time. Like I said, I had my children and I didn't want to do TV series and I didn't want to do umpteen or franchises. I didn't, I did, I felt very um confined in this sort of like a lineup of things, of things that I didn't know. I'm like, well, where's the character going? Well, you know, this time there's scripts don't come out, they're just conversations. Um, so, yeah, it was a between you and I kind of thing. It's a one done and we don't have to, you can, but it's a sort of, there's a self sacrifice moment. And uh, no, okay, all right, I'm in because um.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was interested and then and also I was very adamant about like, well, we I think we really need to embrace this character and his roots and this Eastern European background and all that and then, you know, and I mean, this feels like I'm not supposed to say this, but this is the truth and people know this is that Fox owned

• 36:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  X-Men.

• 36:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  They own the other element to these other two characters. Their father's character is an X-Men.

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  What do you do about that?

• 36:48Josh Horowitz?

  Magneto couldn't be mentioned in that one.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  What do you do about that until Fox and Disney blended?

• 36:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  There's no, so we had this dual thing that happened simultaneously of which I signed on way before that was all being, I was on a year before we started shooting.

• 37:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  So.

• 37:03Josh Horowitz?

  So if the circumstances had been different, obviously, then.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Well, just, I mean, yeah, but again, I don't, I'm not, I'm not someone who I don't, I, it doesn't actually faze me. Like, I don't have any regrets or any.

• 37:13Josh Horowitz?

  It worked out for everybody, I think. And you were able to have the career you had the last decade.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think, um, yeah, and I think also it just, again, it, I stepped into a world that was a very well oiled machine and it was huge.

• 37:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? And it's a sequel, so we had all the guys back. And, um, it was really interesting to observe that world.

• 37:38Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a little surprised. You're, you're one of the few one and done MCU characters, especially in this like multiverse we're living in. The fact that they have never had a conversation with you about coming back, or have they?

• 37:51Josh Horowitz?

  That's a convenient sip of coffee that just happened.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, maybe not everything's out there then.

• 37:55Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's enough of a tease I'll take.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  No, I mean, listen, I think you have to work within the boundaries of what that, how far that character can go.

• 38:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Which, look, not to segue, but Kraven has, that's the excitement of Kraven.

• 38:10Josh Horowitz?

  There's so much material to explore.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  And, and we've got, yeah, and we've, and J C was like, I'm excited because no one's done Kraven. It's not a, it's not like a.

• 38:18Josh Horowitz?

  It's not the 10th Kraven. You're the first.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Right, we can, we've got somewhere to go. We've got, so like, so people ask you, is there gonna be a like, and you're like, why, why would you want that? What, we'll literally just kind of give you a new world.

• 38:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Let's give you something like, you know, you can't, there's a bit of a repetition thing going on that's like, um, doesn't excite my original, like, you know, I want to see something different. So, so that was kind of all of that. And I hope that's not offending anybody or saying things. I'm, you know, I care, remember, I care. And I think there is a respectable way to like, um, protect certain, um, elements of choices, right? And, uh, and, you know, so, you know, so, and I think there's decisions you, you live with, but you, you live with them without regrets and you, and I make, I have to make a ton of decisions sometimes. That's why it's like, you know.

• 39:16Josh Horowitz?

  One good decision you made was working with Danny Boyle. Twenty-eight years later, I mean, I've been berating, you know, Danny, that question for the last decade. When's it happening? And finally it's happened. You've shot it.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  We have, yeah.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Jodie Comer, Ralph Fiennes.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 39:32Josh Horowitz?

  And.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Two of the finest actors, our British actors, yeah.

• 39:35Josh Horowitz?

  What was the experience like? Because that first one was so innovative for a thousand different reasons. We know he shot on an iPhone. Again, that's out there.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Okay, cool.

• 39:42Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I mean, I'm saying it so you don't have to.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  I mean, it's great.

• 39:45Josh Horowitz?

  So you know, it's out there. But what was, can you, can you hint a little bit about what the experience was like? What made it special for you?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  I feel like I can't, there's not enough vocabulary to articulate how extraordinary this shoot was. I mean, it was like, I had one of the most incredible experiences on set ever. And I think that's because Danny Boyle is an absolute legendary filmmaker and director. And, and the enthusiasm is that. He's like a child.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  He's like Quentin Tarantino level of like manic energy.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Energy is like, whoa, like, like you, you like, just need to plug in and like, take some of that energy. It's like, it's electric and, and it's, and it's like, it like invigorated and inspired me again to be like, an actor. Like, and that sounds bizarre, but like, there's, there's a moment where you're like, oh, I fucking love acting again. Like, which is like bizarre, because sometimes, you know, like, it's strange that I kind of possibly dipped that on or something, you know, along the way. But like. What we were getting was, what we got was like, you know, was really feeding the soul. And I think because the premise in itself is just the most extraordinary premise. Because you've also got that built in audience where, like you said, it's a cult film that happened like.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  You know, it come out two thousand and one, I think.

• 41:06Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds right, yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Right? My, my.

• 41:09Josh Horowitz?

  We'll fact check it, around that.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  It's about that time, I think. Um, and so.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  And so obviously, I don't know how much I can say, but you know, time is obviously, that's time stops still then.

• 41:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  And now we've gone twenty eight years later, so these are like the survivalists that have lived through. I mean, if you think the pandemic of like that two year period and elongate that for twenty eight years. And just, it just gives you so much imagination and, and fills in so much, but also. Layers of trauma, obviously. And I think that built in premise of concept, just on top of like, without knowing what the story is.

• 41:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  That's how, there's like that behind everything else, so.

• 41:59Josh Horowitz?

  Did you shoot?

• 42:00Speaker 02

  London is just, I mean, I can't tell you how exciting I, I'm, I'm absolutely excited to see. I, I don't, you know, I'm, I'm really excited to see how this comes out and because of the way they were filming, the, the, the way. The way that an iPhone films you.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Cuts through, it's like this moment where you feel like really vulnerable for a second, because you're like, oh.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  Camera's like right so close to you, so.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  We're rolling, checking, and you know, whatever, like go through the motions of like. Um, because you shot and there's your mark, you get sort of set, you know, you're carrying a light and then you might go and do your scene or whatever. And then, but like an iPhone's just like, here it is. And then you're like, oh, fuck, oh shit, you can see and feel. Every, it's something that just like, you know, someone sticks a camera in your face and an iPhone. It, it makes you feel vulnerable instantly, like they're just like, oh, you're seeing too much, like, you know what I mean? There's something weird and that got, that was funny just to get used to. That at the beginning, I think, and then, and then, and then I just was like, whoa, this is. This is wild, this is really wild and.

• 43:05Josh Horowitz?

  I can't wait, man.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  There's more I could talk about on it.

• 43:07Josh Horowitz?

  We have time, we have time to get to it, don't worry.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  But yeah, extraordinary and I think it's gonna be super exciting to, I think it's gonna be a bit of an event, actually.

• 43:17Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Because it's like, yeah, I think that's something, and I feel, I feel so privileged and honored to be like, pulled into the, into that family, like, that's a good group of, I mean, and Alex Garland and Ralph Fiennes, you know, we've got...

• 43:34Josh Horowitz?

  And there's a roadmap going forward, I don't know if you continue in the next, the rest of the trilogy, but the fact that there's a lot of story to come there, it's exciting, Nia Costa, I know, and the whole thing.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we did one and two back to back, and so that's exciting. And the young lad, Alfie, is an extraordinary young man and an incredible actor. And bless him, he, you know, grew up pretty much on the, you know, he literally went from boy to like, you know, young man in this short space of time. That sort of pinnacle age where, you know, you're growing on set and he was just a, you know, I really, Danny and I really sort of, you know, took him under our wing and I felt very paternal over him and we have that relationship in the movie and I play his father, but it's something that I felt incredibly, I related to because of being a father to teenage girls.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  So I felt very much like I knew how to, yeah, I felt really emotionally connected to this character in a way that I just, it was exciting, it's been really exciting.

• 44:33Josh Horowitz?

  I can't wait, man.

• 45:10Speaker 04

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

• 46:12Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna end with this. The Happy Second Feels profoundly random questions. This is a little bit more rapid fire, Aaron. Are you a dog or cat person?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Well, you know how good I am at rapid.

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  I have no one to beat. You can make these all 10 minute answers. Dogs or cats?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Dogs.

• 46:27Josh Horowitz?

  You have some at home?

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I have dogs and cats, but which is, yeah. But at the moment, my cat keeps pissing all on the bed, so.

• 46:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Well, that's because, you know, because she sees my suitcase getting packed and that. So I guess there's love there.

• 46:42Josh Horowitz?

  Something.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, she's not very happy with me at the moment.

• 46:48Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 46:52Speaker 02

  I'm not really, I'm not really a collector.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know. I suppose Japanese knives, I guess, like kitchen knives, I guess. I've got a collection of those.

• 47:05Josh Horowitz?

  I hope you're a cook. You're not just collecting knives just because you.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Right, because I'm brave. Yeah, no, because I like cooking. But I think I've, you know, so there's that, I suppose. But actually, the Japanese gardening tools and things like that. Sounds very niche, but they're just such beautiful instruments. I just say, you know, and I think that's quite incredible. Although you never really want to get them dirty, so you end up really never using them.

• 47:29Josh Horowitz?

  They're just pieces of art in the kitchen.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  I just gotta keep finding them.

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  Don't use them, Sam. We have to live with them.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Those are amazing. They've got beautiful sheath and I'm gonna hack these things. And out there, you're just using your hands or like a shitty shovel or something, you know. But I guess that's kinda cool. No, I haven't got like the the collection of Porsches or I haven't got, you know what I mean?

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  What if you had said that? Yeah, I've got 12 Porsches. Does that count? What do you think about that, Josh?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  I've got a friend in countryside who's that guy.

• 47:56Josh Horowitz?

  Who's got a few of those, yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  And he's a nice dude, you know what I mean?

• 47:59Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  It's it's a, you've got my phone? It's it's a, what's the one where you keep clicking it and it, what's it called? Yeah, it's got a rotation of just.

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  So you got a bunch of them photos?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've got like 50 different photos and it's just my kids and yeah.

• 48:17Josh Horowitz?

  It's not you sitting on the Craven Throne, just a reminder?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Just with my apps out, just like keep looking at that photo like.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of. It's that sort of thing, you know. It was definitely one of the moments when we did that photo shoot.

• 48:31Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  And I trained incredibly hard for that moment.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  I get it.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  And they were like, and it was like my trainer kinda going, dude, lap it up because you are never gonna look this good ever again. I was like, it was like, yeah, you're, trust me, you're gonna want this when you're 40 and you're gonna look like, you know, like it's like, that's, and I was like, oh shit. And then, and you can't, in a minute, you're like, no, I can get here, I can get back here. And no, it was definitely, oh boy, yeah.

• 49:01Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember getting into the pose? Was there's a lot of just kinda like?

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Holding.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, sucking it in a little bit, just.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Dude, I was actually, it's really unhealthy where I went, you know, it's, I had a whole shoot day that day.

• 49:15Josh Horowitz?

  So the thing where you don't have water like for 24 hours, that kind of thing?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  So there was a, there was an actual, you know, I'm probably not supposed to talk about this, but there's like that dehydration period of time, which means three, four days before I like overhydrate.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Gets your metabolism going and then like twenty four hours before you start to cut water. Um and you have like a little espresso in the day, but you really wanna get that stuff done in the morning. Instead, we did a full shoot day and then did this thing at the end of a shoot, right into the evening. And so I had a long walk all day, um and you know, there's a and you get so. Like I get so obsessed and disciplined to a point where I'm like, I'm not, I'm not gonna let this thing like. You know, I'm not gonna break and drink a like a gallon of water.

• 50:04Josh Horowitz?

  No, I I can tell your commitment is strong.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  So so but also you've done this thing where for the other other the other three days, you've um. Prior to that, you've also taken carbs out of your diet.

• 50:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  And you're hitting only protein and then on that day. You drink a like a carb loaded shake or something and salts and stuff like that. You sip on that and then you get really pumped up. And what happens is, I I don't know the science and technology of it, but basically, I guess, um. All the water, the leftover water goes straight into the muscle.

• 50:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  And the glycogen and all that stuff and the carbs comes into the veins and the veins start to pump up. This is like, it's like body, it's proper body building sort of kind of regime.

• 50:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  But and the reason for that, obviously, is because I'm not a normal person, I'm playing this kind of. I am playing this animalistic.

• 51:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Look, I wanted to look so like disgustingly like ripped and raw in a way that just looked. Like it looked beastly, it looks some, it looked unnaturally like animalistic and wild and so I want, you know, the veins coming all over and like. In a way that looked um vicious, I wanted to have something that I wanted, I wanted to put that out there. So again, it came back to just commitment and and giving.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  That viewer's first impression.

• 51:34Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's the first thing you Google Craven the Hunter, that's like the image, so it's like you have to honor it and that's part of the job.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, the guy's like bam bam bam bam. And I'm like, well, that's the costume. It's my body. I'm like, that's. You know, and I, because of the years of working on Marvel previously, I've seen people, they just pump, they, you know, you have, you have a costume with all your pads in it, right?

• 51:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It's like, cool, good for you. I can't cheat that, you know? Um, and so that became the thing. And as you can see me now, I'm like a normal sized person. No, I'm slimming down. And also that's, you know, I'm now having to shift and change for something else I'm working on. So.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Cause some, you know, we just did this fan event thing and people were like, dude, what did you take? It was actually some guy was straight out like, do you take roids? I was like, no, no, because I need to look naughty. I need to, I need to be, and that's so, I don't, that's not my approach. It's like, I have to do this thing. Incredibly natural and healthy because I also got to get through a shoot, you know? And, and also I want to look like a, I, I want to shift and change as another. Cause I came to it as an actor, not, I, I go to the, I'm not a bodybuilder.

• 52:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Who got the role of a, do you know what I mean? I wasn't cast as like that fitness.

• 52:49Josh Horowitz?

  Because of the shape of your body, although we knew that you had the capacity to change and the commitment to change.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  I'd like, you know, I had a background of dance and athleticism.

• 52:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  To the point where I can, um, uh, under the right circumstances, you know, training really hard and eating the right thing, I can build muscle in that respect. So. That was, um, good, but yeah, intense to say the least.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  To say the least. Well, proof's in the pudding. Uh, last actor you were mistaken for? Does it ever happen?

• 53:23Speaker 02

  This is quite random, actually, yeah, like Logan Lerman, actually.

• 53:26Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Which is funny, because obviously, we worked together and there was just someone on the street and I was like, "That's funny, that's actually quite funny."

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  Did you tell them you weren't? Did you have to break the news or did you just accept it? So, yeah, thanks.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Sometimes people will ask, "Do you know you sort of really remind me of?" But sometimes they do that with me and they say my name. "Do you really, you know, do you know that, do people ever tell you you look like?" I go, "Yeah, sometimes they do." And they go, "Oh, yeah, you know." I've got better at that as well, you just kind of like, you know.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Know how to, yeah, these are odd, yeah, they don't teach you this in acting school.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  No, because they're not expecting you to actually like make it?

• 54:09Josh Horowitz?

  Succeed, yeah, exactly. Just so you know, it's probably not gonna happen for you.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Could you imagine? The first semester, we're gonna actually work on.

• 54:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, Comic Con.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  You know, yeah, yeah, that's quite a funny segment to do, isn't it?

• 54:24Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  The worst note?

• 54:28Josh Horowitz?

  You don't have to name names.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  I'm trying to think, is it?

• 54:34Josh Horowitz?

  What do you find not helpful? What's like, what's a note that's like just not useful?

• 54:37Speaker 02

  I think he's always said, um,

• 54:41Speaker 02

  yeah, like that but a bit more or something.

• 54:44Josh Horowitz?

  More of whatever?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, just again, but more or something, you know, okay.

• 54:48Josh Horowitz?

  Like more what?

• 54:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  No, I, or maybe Matthew Vaughn probably has that sort of a line that's like, yeah, do that but better.

• 54:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right. That sounds like a Matthew Vaughn.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  But I think, you know.

• 55:00Josh Horowitz?

  With love.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  With irony, I think, a little bit. And, um, and I think sometimes you kind of almost know what that note means as well.

• 55:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, do that, yeah, yeah, just but better. You know, that, you know what that means, you know. But I don't really, I can't really remember. I don't hold on to many things and I've got a pretty bad memory.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  It's probably for the best of self-preservation.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Definitely something that happened to you. Had this mechanism that shuts down.

• 55:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's what you're doing to your body in the interest of Craven. It's damaging the memory map.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:37Josh Horowitz?

  But it's for our entertainment and I thank you for that. I'll let you go. You're very generous with your time. You've always been very generous with me. I know you don't do a lot of like the podcast thing.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  No, I haven't.

• 55:46Josh Horowitz?

  You've done it twice with me over the years and I appreciate you, man.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Oh, that's very kind of you. It's a real pleasure to be sat here and talking to you.

• 55:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Because you're a real enthusiast as well, movie enthusiast. And I think, you know, I appreciate that and, you know, very thoughtful questions.

• 56:07Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, buddy.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  And yeah.

• 56:09Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna do the Craving the Throne diet next and send you some photos. Tell me how I do.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Hey, well, you can go. They're all over there. Not far from here. They're cooking up a storm over there. You've got big boy Nate over there doing some good stuff.

• 56:22Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Well, good luck with this. News Spot Ferratu is also fantastic. And Craving the Hunter. Guys, get out there to see a lot of love and work has been poured into this, so.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it has. Yeah, yeah. Please do. Yeah. And it really is entertaining and a fast-paced movie. And it's a great action movie. And I think, you know, when you go to the cinema, it's from choice. You know, it's like, it's actually a really, really enjoyable movie to go watch at the cinema.

• 56:52Josh Horowitz?

  Excellent. Best of luck with the van. Thank you.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cheers, man.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 57:15Speaker 05

  For eight years, we've been asking the same question over and over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy. And I'm Melissa and we're the hosts of Moms and Mysteries, the true crime podcast with over 55 million downloads. We're two Florida moms who are obsessed with mysteries. Each week, we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories. We cover everything from infamous cases like Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markel. We bring you the facts, but with warmth and width you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood. Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday. Listen to Moms and Mysteries on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.