Mikey Madison

If you've seen ANORA, you know what all the fuss is about. Mikey Madison is what's next. She stole scenes in ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD, definitely made an impression in SCREAM, but it is as the titular Anora that she's made a mark and changed her career forever. She joins Josh here to talk about all of it and the wild ride she's on now. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/18 – Billy Eichner at 92Y in NY – Tickets here 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:57Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 0:59Speaker 03

  To like be cooler. I remember one time a director's like, can you just do it more cool? And I actually was, I was very upset about that. And so I wrote like an essay on my computer and I presented it to him and I read it to him why I didn't like that note.

• 1:14Josh Horowitz?

  How'd that go over?

• 1:15Speaker 03

  He was like, no, I agree. It was a bad note. He was like, honestly, I can't believe I gave you that note. And after I said that, I was like, ah, what the [bleep]. Why did I give you that note?

• 1:24Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:32Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Josh Horowitz and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, Mikey Madison is here. You've heard about it, Nora. I'm obsessed with this movie. It is fantastic. Everybody that has seen it falls in love with it, falls in love with her performance. She's been working a while, but this is a very special moment for Mikey and this film. So I'm so thrilled it's brought her to the podcast for the very first time. Welcome.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 1:55Josh Horowitz?

  It's great to meet you, honestly. I know it's been a journey and it's going to continue. This is, as I said to you when we sat down, it's all for a good cause, but it's a lot of work to talk about a movie for six months on nonstop. How you feeling?

• 2:08Speaker 03

  No, I'm good. It's, it's interesting. I've never experienced anything quite like this. But no, I'm lucky. I'm privileged to be in this position. And I've always dreamed of being in a film like this. So to me, it's, it's all worth it, even if at times you're. And it is a lot of talking and it's a lot of meaning.

• 2:32Josh Horowitz?

  Don't you know the story of Enora by now? Don't you know how I came to it, guys? I've said this story a thousand times, but...

• 2:38Speaker 03

  I know. And some people are so good at that. Like, some of my co-stars are able to kind of get into repeating the same story. I've noticed even with some of the same pauses. And I'm like, how do you do that?

• 2:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's another acting exercise, isn't it? Because it's like, and I literally just had another, a very similar kind of conversation. So I talked to Paul Meskell at the end of his Gladiator 2 press tour.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:02Josh Horowitz?

  And like, similar to you, he's, this is a year of transformation. Like, a different kind. He's been working for a minute, but this is a whole nother level. And it's, it's, it takes, it's different muscles. It's different energy. And it's, for those of us that have active minds, and it sounds like you have one like me, it's like, you're in your own head. You're like, I've told this story. How can this be interesting to you? But the truth is, everybody hasn't heard it, and we're spreading the good word. So, it is what it is.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Well, I think it's mostly, I mean, I'm very much so an introvert.

• 3:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  And so it's just that emotional energy. Because I, I'm an introvert, but I do, I love people and I love talking to them.

• 3:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  And so I want to connect with someone and like, look in their eyes. And then sometimes it just becomes a lot, and it's overwhelming, and you have to try to push through that. So I find myself with plenty of physical energy.

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Speaker 03

  It's just the emotional energy that, at times, starts to dwindle.

• 3:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Okay, well, we're getting you at the beginning of the day. You can take a little nap after this conversation.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  No, no, I'm good. I'm very happy to do this. I just, yeah.

• 4:05Josh Horowitz?

  I get it. Um, last night, to set the scene for folks watching or listening, uh, was Gotham Awards, which is like, one of those crazy rooms to be in. And you're gonna be in a bunch of rooms the next few months, but like, it's everyone from, you know, Angelina Jolie and Timothy Chalamet and like, legends and icons. Um, what's that experience like for you? Are you able to enjoy that?

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Yes, I've made some nice friends recently that I've been seeing frequently. So it's always nice to see a friendly face.

• 4:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Everyone's been very kind to me, so I don't know, it's interesting.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  Who are the ones that have started to recur? Like I saw, I was watching a red carpet interview last night. And it's like, oh, Demi Moore just jumped in to say hi. Like, this is your wife now.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  I love Demi. Demi is wonderful and also we both, I mean, we just talk about dogs and rescue and

• 5:04Josh Horowitz?

  There you go.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  She's just sweet, nice, a very, very kind woman. So I always love seeing her. And Coleman won last night and I'm so happy for him because I just recently saw Sing Sing.

• 5:17Josh Horowitz?

  Sing Sing's amazing.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  It's amazing. And he is so, I mean, he is really one of those actors that just has this presence. You can't take your eyes off.

• 5:29Josh Horowitz?

  The voice, everything.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  The voice, it's this commanding energy and this deep emotionality that he's able to tap into. And then also, he's just incredibly kind, sweet person. So I always love seeing him. But yeah, to see his film recently, I mean, absolutely incredible. One of my favorites this year, I think.

• 5:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's great to see someone like him who's, you know, at a different stage in his life. And like, just in the last few years, it's like the world discovered. I mean, a lot of people knew Coleman Domingo's work, but like to see him now get these kind of opportunities. It's like, it's his time and I'm so happy for him. Yeah, I saw, actually, the other night, I did an event with Natasha Lyonne. And I saw them later that night, I see photos of you, Natasha, Coleman, Brian Tyree Henry. Again, cool crowd to hang out with.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  So, such sweet people.

• 6:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, everyone's been very nice. I think a lot of people have sort of just swooped in. I think that people can sense my, like, vulnerable energy perhaps.

• 6:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right, protecting you. It's not gonna be okay, Mikey.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  No, but it's, it's nice. I, I do also feel generally that I've met so many amazing women that I look up to, have looked up to my entire career.

• 6:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  And I feel This like connection through womanhood and just women like being there for me.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  I'm trying to be there for other, other women as well, and I really feel that.

• 7:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  And it's nice because I've always wanted that. Do you know what I mean?

• 7:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  To have that camaraderie and that sort of, I don't know, it's, it's, it's nice. I, I feel it.

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're gonna come away from this whole bizarre experience with a lot of new friends and mentors and, and, and amazing experiences, to say the least. I mean, when you look at your career, does any year hold a candle to 2024 just in sheer madness and energy and unexpectedness for you? Is this the year that stands out?

• 7:35Speaker 03

  I think, I think so, yes, but I've, I've had like other years that stand up, stand out in terms of growth, personal experience, I think, things that make you who you are. I've had years that have been really difficult, but that's made me a better actor. And so, but I think just in terms of travel and changes that feel sort of like outside of my world.

• 8:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  I've felt, I've, I've been recognizing that a lot more, if that can make sense.

• 8:13Josh Horowitz?

  It does make sense. It's a year of firsts. It's like, I'm sure you've probably been to award shows, maybe with Better Things or Ones.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Never.

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 8:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, so that is a first.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:23Josh Horowitz?

  And like late night talk shows and like, it's like all these things, again, you didn't sign up for early on. You were a smart young woman. You knew this could potentially happen, I suppose, but it's not.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  I never, I never thought any of this would happen. Well, no, I, I didn't like realistically ever see that for myself, but obviously I think, you know, you, you daydream about being in a film like this, or I definitely did. And then all like these very interesting things that come with it. I was like, oh, I've been very pleasantly surprised by all of it.

• 9:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So let's, okay, before we get into the substance of the film, the

• 9:06Josh Horowitz?

  I guess the launching point was Cannes, which has got to be quite a launching pad for a movie. This movie won the Palme d'Or, the major prize there. What was your, I mean, had you seen the film prior to getting to Cannes? Like, what was your level of confidence in what you had done?

• 9:23Speaker 03

  I had seen it a couple of days before in its entirety in a very small screening room with Sean and some people who are close to me. And Sean had invited me into the editing room because I was, you know, we were heavily collaborating for a long time on this film. And he was like, you want to come into the editing room? And I was like hardcore avoiding it for like a year. I was like, no, no, no. And at this point, I was like, I can't go. It's almost done. And then there was a point where I was like, OK, I'm ready to see it. And he was like, well, I'm not ready for you to see it now. And so, yes, driving to Burbank to go see it for the first time,

• 10:07Speaker 03

  I was, oh, my God, I was so scared and nervous because everything, so much had been building up to this moment. I like, I put all of myself into making this film. And I was like, I hope I just, I hope I did the character justice. I hope I did my job. I hope I don't, I don't know. I had hopes for it.

• 10:31Josh Horowitz?

  And we'll get to kind of like the creation of the film. I mean, you're so invested, obviously, in all works, but you're a creative collaborator in this, unlike any other experience, fair to say, in your career.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  Yes, certainly.

• 10:43Josh Horowitz?

  So when you see the final product, it's not just you serving a director's vision. You're, that's your vision on screen too, as it were. Those are your ideas. So it's got to, you got to feel probably more heavily invested than you ever have before, I would imagine, as the, as the images start to flicker.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  In a lot of ways, yes. And I think I also had.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Sort of delved deeper into the the process of bringing this character to life. And she was so different from me, so different from any character I've ever played. And I threw myself into some, what for me, what felt like really big transformations. And so it was, I was like, I wonder what it's going to feel like to see this. Cause I had been avoiding it.

• 11:31Josh Horowitz?

  So what was the sense? So it ends, you watch the movie, is it a sigh of relief? Is it?

• 11:37Speaker 03

  Yes, of course, because the anticipation of anything is always, it's always more.

• 11:42Josh Horowitz?

  I don't think it's a disaster. I think it's actually kind of good. Am I right, Sean? That's a good movie.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  I I loved it, but I think, just, I mean, that's just how anxiety works, at least for me. It's the anticipation's worse than actually going to do something or or to talk to someone or to see your work.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  But no, I I loved it, but I think the first time I watched it, it was hard for me to get a sense of the film as a whole, because I'm sort of just, you're looking at certain things. And I was thinking about it more from an actor's perspective as opposed to as as an audience member.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  But then when I saw it can a few days later for the second time, I was able to sit back and I'm like, we already saw it. There's not going to be any surprises or.

• 12:30Josh Horowitz?

  And then you get to see what we all learn, and I learned the first time I saw it, is it's a true audience film. It's like a film where the audience goes on that ride. And I don't know, you feel it, didn't you? You must have felt it in that room and in subsequent screenings.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yes, I did, but also I I had never been to a film festival before. I didn't really know what to expect. And also, I I think I wasn't used to being in. Um, a theater like that with that many people.

• 13:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  All, all cinema lovers and so it was interesting. People were hysterically laughing, uh cheering and then completely silent at the end.

• 13:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  And Sean and I looked at each other and we were like, oh, okay.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  I, I guess people are just silent. We were like, okay.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  That's that, but I think it was just the shock of the last scene. Had sort of quieted the audience for a bit.

• 13:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we'll get to that in a bit too.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Okay, sure.

• 13:37Josh Horowitz?

  But, um, all right, so let's go all the way back if you'll indulge me, okay? Little Mikey, growing up, LA kid.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:44Josh Horowitz?

  Acting didn't come first as the first passion, but were you an extrovert as a kid? Were you like song and dance girl? No, you weren't.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, no. No, no, no.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  I was so painfully shy. Yes. Were you extroverted or?

• 14:03Josh Horowitz?

  I was super shy.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Really?

• 14:04Josh Horowitz?

  This is, this is the performance version of me. Yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 14:07Josh Horowitz?

  This is how I get it out. No, it's true. I mean, like, like you, it sounds like, I mean, when the cameras turn on and you have the material, you can summon that part of yourself.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Well, I think it's, it's under the guise of somebody else.

• 14:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  You know, so to me, it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel like me.

• 14:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  You're, I mean, I'm all clearly the vessel for the character.

• 14:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  But I think in my head, the excuse is that it's somebody completely different from me. And, and there's this safety net underneath you because you're, you're making a film.

• 14:39Josh Horowitz?

  Were you, so you say you were a shy kid, like where are you in the sibling dynamic? Youngest, oldest, middle?

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Um, I have two older sisters.

• 14:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  And then I have a twin brother.

• 14:50Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  And I have a brother who's 13 months younger. What about you?

• 14:55Josh Horowitz?

  I'm the youngest of three.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Oh, are you the youngest?

• 14:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, so I think, you know, they, they weren't paying attention to me. I could go read in the corner.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Really? Yeah, I thought the youngest is always the baby of the family.

• 15:06Josh Horowitz?

  Well, yeah, they definitely babied me, but they also feel, I feel like left, left me to my own devices for good or for bad.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 15:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, saw a lot of, skipped a lot of school and watched a lot of movies while they weren't looking in high school.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 15:17Josh Horowitz?

  But that served me well, Mikey. It worked out.

• 15:21Josh Horowitz?

  So for you, shy kid, so when did you find an outlet? And I know it was horseback riding was like the first kind of passion.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I was, I've always loved animals. And I mean, it's still the biggest love of my life are animals. And so I grew up horseback riding. I was sitting on a horse before I could even really walk. And so that was my biggest love. Everything that I did was related to horseback riding and animals. And so I basically lived at the horse barn I rode at Foxfield in Westlake.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  And yeah, that was, that was my, my life. And I even started homeschooling myself so that I could be at the barn more often.

• 16:10Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, okay. So when do you feel like you've found, I mean, found a voice, found a tribe of people, found like a community? Was it other riders? Was it when you shifted into acting? Kind of like when did you come out of your shell a little bit, you feel?

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I think just as I've gotten older.

• 16:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  But even when I, I don't know if I ever really found my tribe necessarily until fairly recently.

• 16:37Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 16:37Speaker 03

  I think I've always just been more of a...

• 16:42Speaker 03

  What's the word I'm looking at? It would sound so weird to say like more of a lone wolf type.

• 16:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, I get it.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  But yeah, I think so.

• 16:50Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, did you, this might be too, we're going down the Jewy path. Were you bat mitzvahed, Mikey?

• 16:55Speaker 03

  No, I wasn't.

• 16:56Josh Horowitz?

  I wasn't bat mitzvahed either. I'm like the only hardwood that was not bat mitzvahed. Maybe we should get a joint late in life bar and bat mitzvah, Mikey.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, that wouldn't be embarrassing at all. You'd become a man finally. I'd become a woman at 25.

• 17:11Josh Horowitz?

  I'm thinking about this because I, my nieces are getting a double bat mitzvah next week.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Oh, are they?

• 17:15Josh Horowitz?

  So it's a lot of pressure on me to learn stuff that I have never, I never went to Hebrew school, never did anything.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  I didn't either, yeah.

• 17:22Josh Horowitz?

  We're bad Jews, but we're good people, just bad Jews.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would always say, growing up, I was like a proud non-practicing.

• 17:30Josh Horowitz?

  Culturally Jewish.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, no, I'm a very spiritual person, but I just wasn't wasn't raised that way. But my, my dad, um, you know, had a big one in Israel.

• 17:41Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  And so, but for some reason, we just, we didn't do it. I don't know why.

• 17:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, again, again, rainy day, we're gonna do it. Okay.

• 17:56Josh Horowitz?

  If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager. And thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy, Say I Confuse, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody. So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing, a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance.

• 18:40Josh Horowitz?

  That means you're either paying out of pocket or signing up for some very expensive monthly subscription. Rula does it all differently. They work with over 120 insurance plans, so the average copay, I can't get over this, it's just 15 bucks a session. So basically, two of your lattes, okay? A pretty good deal, if you ask me. That means you can get real therapy from a licensed professional without breaking the bank. And Rula doesn't just set you up and leave you alone. They give you that therapist, and then they're along the way, the whole journey with you to make sure your care is working for you and you're actually making progress, hitting your goals. This can all happen right away, guys. With Rula, appointments are often available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists, there's no frustrating back and forth. They make it easy.

• 19:23Josh Horowitz?

  Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without spending a fortune.

• 20:05Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:49Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so when do you start to perform? And how does that happen?

• 21:26Speaker 03

  I think when I was maybe 13 or 14, I became really interested in film, and I've always loved movies. And so, something, some curiosity was sparked in me about...

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Wanting to explore, understand uh what that might feel like or who these people are that are that are making these films and I I had no I mean, nobody in my family is in the industry and so I think in my head, I I loved John Hughes films. I loved, you know, like films from the eighties, classic coming of age movies and so I was obsessed with Pretty in Pink and Sixteen Candles and so I had seen Pretty in Pink and I I felt so inspired by that film, so moved by it and I was like, I feel like I need to connect myself to something within this and I was like, well, maybe I want to be a fashion designer, seamstress and so I took sewing lessons and I was like.

• 22:25Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe not.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I made, yeah, I made a Hawaiian shirt.

• 22:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And my I made my mom an an apron and I I was like, eh, this isn't it, this isn't.

• 22:36Josh Horowitz?

  The lucrative apron business by Mikey Madison.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  It's actually, I wore that apron cooking Thanksgiving dinner just a couple of days ago.

• 22:44Josh Horowitz?

  There you go, you're still getting good use out of it.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, once a year it gets used by me, making Thanksgiving dinner for my family.

• 22:50Josh Horowitz?

  So what so you meant, yeah, I've heard you mentioned the John Hughes movies, I've heard you clearly have good taste, you've mentioned uh Princess Diaries, Stand By Me, you run the gamut, Mikey, what were the films like you could recite by heart, like if I caught you at thirteen or fourteen, what were you obsessed with?

• 23:07Speaker 03

  Recite by heart, well, I could probably recite Almost Famous by heart now.

• 23:12Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good one.

• 23:13Speaker 03

  I watched that film every day on my birthday.

• 23:15Josh Horowitz?

  Really? That's a tradition?

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:18Josh Horowitz?

  Penny Lane, like just the whole.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Oh, all of it, just all of it, all the characters, the women, um, and the band, I just I just adore that film and it's very nostalgic to me, is there a film that you can recite by heart?

• 23:31Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, a thousand, it's the only thing I'm obsessed, that's This Is My Life, yeah, Almost Famous is up there, Cameron Crowe, early Cameron Crowe is very special, yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking of like, I've quoted that movie so many times, I'm just one of the out of focus guys.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  So good, just so good, yeah, whenever I'm like about to jump into a pool.

• 23:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right, you're a golden god.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  Everyone's like, what?

• 23:57Josh Horowitz?

  Are you, you have mentioned Princess Diaries. Do you see a part for you in The Long awaited Princess Diaries 3, which apparently is actually happening, Mikey?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Is it happening?

• 24:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I think it actually...

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Oh, God. I, I love those films.

• 24:12Josh Horowitz?

  You like Royal Engagement as well? You like the second one?

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Yes, of course. The first one, I think, is my, is obviously my favorite. The second is great, too.

• 24:21Josh Horowitz?

  We have Chris Pine involved, and we get that.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  I, I mean, if there's a role for me, I would be there in a heartbeat. But regardless, I'm just excited to see what they'll possibly make again.

• 24:33Josh Horowitz?

  Can you imagine?

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Because I think it's, I mean, those, I grew up with those films. Julie Andrews.

• 24:39Josh Horowitz?

  The best icon. So anything on the Josh Horowitz-y geeky side of things? It will surprise you to no end. I'm sure to know that I was, of course, comic book, Star Wars, you know, Lord of the Rings, all that stuff. I mean, I love it all. Anything on that side of the ledger that you, were you a genre person? Are you a genre person, or is it not your thing?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  I do love horror film. I love to watch horror film. One of, it's, if like, if I'm Home Alone, I'm like, I'd like to just watch, put something on. I honestly never got, quite got into, like, sci-fi. Yet.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  But...

• 25:14Josh Horowitz?

  You're young yet, you got time.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  But I do appreciate that. And it's interesting to sort of, I mean, there's such huge fanbases for those films. And I like that community, I think is nice, that people have created around those genres.

• 25:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and then, of course, obviously, we can talk about this now, we can talk later, Scream, when you get involved in that, is that an odd one, then, almost an outsider entering that as an iconic part of that franchise? Did that give you, was the distance almost helpful to not, I don't know, not have the baggage of pressure that it wasn't necessarily part of your DNA, those films?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  I, I mean, I was completely unaware of the, the fanbase, or I think,

• 26:03Speaker 03

  ignorantly unaware.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  And obviously now I know how incredible that community is and how much people adore those films, but for me, I was just like, God, this seems like a really fun character.

• 26:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 26:18Speaker 03

  And I'm in the middle of the pandemic, I'm gonna get to like, leave my parents' house and go film this fun movie that's gonna make people

• 26:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  laugh and scream and have a good time at the theaters. Like, this is a no-brainer job for me. And then also, that they were interested in me being like one of these, like the twist at the end, I was like, ah, this sounds fun, I would love to do this. And so, obviously afterwards, I learned.

• 26:47Josh Horowitz?

  This is kind of a big deal. To be, A, to be in a Scream movie, and then B, to be one of the killers.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  So fun.

• 26:54Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Jack Wade's become a buddy in recent years, so you've got to...

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Isn't he the sweetest guy?

• 27:00Josh Horowitz?

  No, if somebody has a bad word to say about Jack Wade, question their humanity, because he's the best.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  Oh, of course. He really is. And I should reach out to him, because he's, he's just like, he's like a good man, you know what I mean? Like, just like a nice, like...

• 27:15Josh Horowitz?

  Grounded, considering where he came from, I mean, his parents, like, superstars, like, how are you that well-adjusted, considering it all?

• 27:22Speaker 03

  You know, it's true, because he is so completely unique, Jack, grounded. I always forgot who his parents were.

• 27:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. We just did a 10th anniversary event for my podcast at your Comic-Con, and Jack, we had David Harbour on the panel from Stranger Things, and I convinced Jack, I'm like, what if you come out dressed as a Demogorgon to surprise Dave? And he's like, great idea, I'll do it.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  Sounds like something he would want to do.

• 27:49Josh Horowitz?

  The best, the best. Did you ever get a chance to see, considering the pandemic and all that, to see a crowd react to you being revealed as the killer in Scream?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  No, I don't think I did, no.

• 28:01Josh Horowitz?

  That's a shame. I'm thinking about all your films, they all have kind of, like, they're great audience movies, like, especially pertaining to things that happened with your character. Alright, so let's backtrack. Better Things,

• 28:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:13Josh Horowitz?

  The Legend That Is Pamela Adlon. Did you realize, did you realize the opportunity, the uniqueness of that opportunity when it came around at first?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Um, I I was, I think I was almost sixteen when I, when we shot the pilot and so I was auditioning, yeah, going through pilot season and auditioning, oh gosh, count hundreds of times probably. And I really liked the script of the pilot. I thought the character was interesting and I was a fan of the creators of this show.

• 28:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  And so to me, I thought, oh, this is something interesting. I I really loved it and I felt like, oh, maybe I actually have a real possible shot here.

• 29:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  Um, and then I got the pilot, which was an absolute huge dream come true for me. I remember getting it and like jumping up and down on my bed. I was like, this is, I cannot believe that this is going to be my life that I got this, this job. Um, and then obviously it lasted for so long and um, I was able to kind of like, I was like, I started the show a girl and then I kind of left a woman, which is quite interesting.

• 29:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Um, but yeah, I'm so grateful for that experience because I think it, I mean, it gave me some security. I learned so much on that show. I learned what it, what it takes to be an actress.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  Just the basics of being on a set too, I would imagine, right?

• 29:47Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 29:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and to have a model like Pamela is pretty cool too, as a, a woman driving the ship or something like that, fantastic.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Well, to see someone who has such a clear vision of what they want to make.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  It's completely her vision, like she, in in the end, you know, she was writing, um, directing, producing and starring in it. And so to watch behind the scenes of how someone makes that work.

• 30:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  I mean, that's her, it was her dream, her dream project that

• 30:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  she'd waited so long to make and so I think it's, it was definitely like, oh, I see that someone is able to do this.

• 30:23Josh Horowitz?

  A lot of those descriptions could apply to someone like Quentin Tarantino, someone who is passionate, has a singular vision.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it's an accomplishment, honestly, just to get in the room with Quentin.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 30:36Josh Horowitz?

  Get that opportunity, right? Because, I mean, I've heard all the stories and Quentin's been on the podcast, so I know all about his methodology and the unique way he runs auditions, to the way he runs a set.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  I bet you guys had a wonderful conversation.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  He's the best. I mean, two film geeks talking for an hour. Come on. But that audition process, he's reading with you, right?

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:59Josh Horowitz?

  He loves, I mean, he's an actor. He's a ham, as we know.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  And he's a good actor, too, actually.

• 31:04Josh Horowitz?

  So what were you reading? Were you reading the part you eventually played? And who was he? How was he interacting with you? What do you remember?

• 31:10Speaker 03

  No, I was reading a part that I was originally cast in. So it was a different character, which is a story for another time.

• 31:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, they gave me some sides and they said, Quentin, maybe we'll be here, maybe he won't. And I was like, oh, gosh, I hope he'll be here because he was one of my favorite, is still one of my favorite filmmakers. I think he is absolutely iconic legend, one of the most brilliant people I've ever met.

• 31:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  So kind, so loving. And so I was very excited about that, very nervous. But I knew Vicky, the casting director of Betten. So I remember sitting in the audition room. And it was sort of like this room. It was all glass doors. So I could, like, see everyone that was walking in and going out. And it was very interesting. And I had brought this painting I made. And I was wearing this, like, very loud 60s outfit. And I had no shoes. And I really just committed to it. And I was like, maybe I can hide my painting behind the chair so I don't have to bring it in because I feel like maybe this is too much.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  And I was like, ah, screw it, I'm just gonna do it, whatever, and, and um.

• 32:27Josh Horowitz?

  So how does that play out, the painting part of it? Like, he walks in, you're like, I brought you this painting, like?

• 32:33Speaker 03

  I don't remember. I don't know, I was nineteen and ballsy, I.

• 32:38Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I love it, it got you the role partially, so, good for you.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Well, I think, I, I think they had said, um, casting had said something like, you, you can read the, the sites we sent, and then also if you want to do something else, you're welcome to, like.

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  So they left the door open to something?

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you wanna write a monologue or sing a song, I think they said, and I was like, well, I don't wanna do those, but I'll do something else.

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  Does he need an apron, perhaps? I could do that.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  If I was twelve, maybe, I could probably make him an apron in a sewing class, a children's sewing class.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I, I was really into painting at the time, and so I turned my parents' garage into a little, little studio, and so I really made this sort of acid trippy painting, and I was like, well, let's go a step further, and I, you know, sewed a piece of my hair into it, and I wrote this poem, and just presented it to him in a very dramatic fashion, and it was fun, you know, you don't get to do that in auditions, so.

• 33:38Josh Horowitz?

  Who has the painting now?

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Uh, Quentin has it, yes. I hope he has it. I don't know, actually, um, I, I'm assuming maybe it's somewhere, but I knew that I had the role, because when I walked into the chemistry read, it was hanging up, and on, and I was like, oh.

• 33:56Josh Horowitz?

  That's a cool way to find out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a role, I mean, everybody's so good in that movie, talk about like a modern classic, like, I've watched that movie so many times. I mean, you have to go for it, especially like towards the end, when we, when you, you really get to chew on some stuff, like, talk about an acid trip, you're high as a kite, you're out there.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:17Josh Horowitz?

  Like, what are his directions to you? Can you go too big in that scene in the car and in the house? What do you recall of kind of approaching that?

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Um, I think he's, he's wonderful. He's so trusting of his actors, I think because he has that. He just has this vision and so he brings people into his films that he. I think he, he, he lets us discover where the scene will take us as we go. And so we took a long time to. Shoot that car scene specifically and so I had never played a character like that before and. I mean, I was still a teenager and I think that as the scene evolved and as we were. Sort of playing with, with it, we were able to get it to this more frenetic place. That just felt right and fun and um. I mean, in real life, those.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  People were in the backseat of that car, which is, which was a real replica of the car that those. That group from the Manson family drove to. To that home and so it was pretty eerie and they were snorting uh coke out of a baby bottle. And so that's what was actually happening. And so we were kind of talking about that and we're like, well. You know, I, I was sort of getting into this different headspace and Quentin was like, that. Let's just keep, keep where you're at right now. Let's keep going with this sort of energy and. God, it was so fun to, to play a character like that. I, I had never.

• 35:49Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, some of the dialogue you get to recite in that car.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Oh, so much. And there was so much too that, that. Ended up on the cutting room floor that was just a- absolutely bonkers.

• 35:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  And so much fun.

• 36:01Josh Horowitz?

  But more bonkers than what ended up in the film.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  To remember.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  I think, I think there were some like, I just. I, I mean, Quentin is one of a kind.

• 36:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Screenwriter and his.

• 36:18Josh Horowitz?

  He's got a way with profanity and any, everything and anything. He can make it beautiful. He can make it like gorgeous to listen to.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, but in a way that is, it's, it's so in his um. There's a rhythm to how he writes.

• 36:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  And you, you see it all over every page.

• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  Every page of his scripts. And so I think there was this one line, I can't remember, but I gave him like an actual. Sixties like butcher knife at the end of production. I think I inscribed a. One of these, one of the quotes of my character that was on the cutting room floor, but app, uh, pretty, pretty nuts.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  But so fun and I think it really opened me up as an actress into a different kind of acting that I like more of more to be possibly more of a character actress at times.

• 37:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  And I was also able to watch Austin Butler, who is so amazing and he I had never seen actors work in that particular way in terms of like emotional preparation and I was able to watch him have the curtains pulled back and see how an actor like that works and it really inspired me and I feel that I I learned a lot watching all these amazing actors do what they do and I was so young and so it was it was nice for me to be like, oh, maybe this is something I could.

• 37:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  I don't know, I get to learn more about.

• 37:42Josh Horowitz?

  There's a path there, yeah, I know, I mean, no surprise to see what he's done in recent years to another gem of a person, as you well know.

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• 38:56Josh Horowitz?

  Alright, so let's get into some more maybe stuff about Enora. Because this is, I mean, as we alluded to, and I'm sure most folks listening or watching have seen it by now, but, and they probably know Sean Baker's work and his unique approach. But, when you meet with Sean, is it, like, what is the initial conversation? Like, it's not the typical audition, here's a script kind of situation. Were you surprised about sort of like how this came about?

• 39:21Speaker 03

  I was, yes. I mean, there was no script at all when I met him. And, so he had seen, I mean, he literally just, we had coffee, and he said, uh, he just offered me the role right there. He said, he pitched me an idea for, it was more of like a Russian gangster film.

• 39:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  About a woman who marries someone and then finds out that he's, it's the, she married the wrong person.

• 39:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  And I thought it was interesting, and I had seen, loved Tangerine. It's still one of my absolute favorite films of all time. It's, I think it's brilliant work. And I also loved The Florida Project, was very moved by that.

• 40:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  And then, in the week leading up to meeting him, I went through the rest of his filmography and saw Red Rocket in theaters, and I was like, "God, this is a dream filmmaker to work with." And, it was, I definitely tried not to question too much about why he wanted to work with me.

• 40:28Josh Horowitz?

  Don't second guess it, don't make him overthink it.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  No, but then also for me, I think, well, I think I was just protecting myself because I, I was like, "Don't get too excited, Mikey, because maybe something won't, it won't work out in the end, or I don't know."

• 40:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  But yeah, I'd never had that experience before, and...

• 40:47Josh Horowitz?

  So by the time you you you have this long, ongoing conversation with him and you do all this research.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  And you and you actually start shooting the film, is the script locked? Like how like what is it again, is it feel like another typical film by then? Or have you locked into what you're doing? Or is there still room to kind of figure it out as you go?

• 41:05Speaker 03

  So I I mean, he wrote a wonderful script. And so originally, it was more of a treatment in a way, what I read.

• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  So it was like mostly a script. And then there were some things that we we filled in. And then it evolved a bit more. And then it was put into script format. And so he he wrote a script. He did an incredible one. But then in the script, there's there's all this room to to fill in in the blanks. You know, he would write paragraph descriptions of a scene. And then it's my job to bring that to life. And so it was exciting and I'd never worked in that way before. And then obviously, as we started shooting, I think is is our that's our biggest collaboration.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Because I had previously done been doing all this work, all these months of preparation. And hadn't really showed showed him anything that I was doing. And I remember at one point, I was like, well, I've been doing months of pole training. Maybe I should show him what I've learned. Like, he had never even heard the accent until the first day of filming. And so I was like, OK, like, I hope he likes what I've prepared for him. But I think that he just was very trusting of me and that we were in a similar headspace. But yeah, it was things, things evolve, obviously, as you film. And it's a testament to him as a filmmaker.

• 42:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  That he's able to recognize those changes, things that are happening, and adjust the film for the better.

• 42:39Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, what he does, as you all know from being a fan of his work and now a collaborator, like, he so humanizes and empathizes with all of his characters and often marginalized characters that we're not used to seeing centered in a film. I mean, you know, sex workers are not traditionally, have not traditionally been the butt of jokes or marginalized and all sorts of horrible crap. And like, no matter who you are, you go on the journey with Anora. You relate on some level, I think. I mean, and I know you met with probably women that had been in somewhat similar circumstances. Like, did you, I guess that has to kind of bleed into your interpretation. What did you take away from the women you met along the journey?

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Oh, that was the most impactful part of my preparation for the character and was the most influential. I'm so grateful that we were able to bring on consultants to the film because these consultants guided me towards truth and authenticity. And I think that the character in the film would be, would just be different if we didn't have that, have these incredible women that I was able to speak to. And so we had multiple consultants and then our chief consultant, Andrea Wareham, is a woman who wrote this beautiful memoir that I connected to.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  She had this like wicked sense of humor and I loved the way that she talked about her work and I felt like, oh, this is, like, I was, I was just like post-it noting it and like underlining and I was like, this, I feel like Annie would connect to her. And so, I mean, you said, sorry, sometimes I go off.

• 44:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, this is a podcast of tangents. Don't worry. My brain works too.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  You said, what was it I took away from it?

• 44:30Josh Horowitz?

  Taking away from meeting, meeting women along the way in the, in the research process.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  I mean, I think I I went into the research like quite open minded, but Sean is really dedicated to authentic portrayals of sex work.

• 44:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  And like you said, we don't really get to see that. Um, we also don't get to see someone like enjoying their work.

• 44:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Which I think is nice to see.

• 44:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  She's Annie is good at her job, and I think she generally likes what she does, and I think she takes pride in it, too. Um, and she's she's a hustler. And so it's, you know, we don't dramatize it, and then we also don't, we try not to sensationalize it.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Um, and so I I I liked that part of it, and I also was like, well, I want to go just as far as Sean and dedicate myself to that authenticity. And so I think I also learned how, I mean, difficult of a job it is in so many ways. Like, it's an emotional job, which was something that I didn't quite realize. It's not just physical. You're connecting with someone on this incredibly deep level that you meet right then and there, and you have this intimate connection with them. And it's very psychological, and so it was it was interesting to understand that.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  And to also implement that into the film. Um, and see the way Annie is connecting to all of these different faces. Um, and what that intimacy looks like, what those conversations look like. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a real job. It's a difficult job, and I think it's one that deserves more more respect, because it's also one of the oldest jobs of all time.

• 46:17Josh Horowitz?

  Truly, truly.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yet it's.

• 46:19Josh Horowitz?

  Back to the Bible, yeah, yeah.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  It's been, literally, yet it's been demonized because of.

• 46:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:25Josh Horowitz?

  As we as we alluded to, this movie has connected with everybody that's seen it. And it's and because of that, and because of this amazing performance, um, you're in a really cool place in your career, where I'm sure you're getting a chance to meet people that you haven't met before, see scripts you never would have seen before. And I I'm always fascinated talking to folks like at these pivot points, because now you're going to have more choice than you've ever had before. And most actors have no choice. They take the job that's presented to them. So what's your guiding force idea? What are you chasing now as you make these pivotal next steps, you think?

• 47:04Speaker 03

  I think that I would love to follow along the path of filmmaking specifically. Like to me, I think that at the moment, my biggest passion is acting in conjunction with filmmaking.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right, finding collaborators like the Shons and the Quintons and etc.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  You know, I wasn't ever an actor who did theater.

• 47:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  I think that my biggest, I love all aspects of filmmaking and being a part of that. And so to me, I would love to work with like-minded people who also...

• 47:44Speaker 03

  It's, I mean, working with Sean was such a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it kind of spoils you a little bit. There aren't many Sean Bakers out there, as you know.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  No, there aren't. But there are a lot of, you know, I've been able to discover a lot of like, a lot, there's so much talent and so many people who are dedicated and in love with the classic way of filmmaking.

• 48:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  And sort of keeping that alive, and that's something I really love too. So I think it's for me, I just want to really, I want to keep that connection going. And there's lots of people I dream of working with one day.

• 48:22Josh Horowitz?

  Are there a few that, are there the same kind of like, you know, people like Luca? Guardino comes up all the time with young actors.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Oh, I probably say him too much.

• 48:30Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, we can manifest things.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  I do love him and he's, he's a, he's a beautiful filmmaker.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  I mean, there's so many. Sorry, I interrupted you.

• 48:43Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, that's exactly what we're talking about, just like who are the, I mean, he's somebody that makes sense, especially for younger actors, because he sees all the facets of youth, I feel like. And most anybody, you know, the cliche is like 25 and under roles are pretty thinly written generally. And somehow he really like, I don't know, gives the respect that everybody deserves, the full emotional range that young people go through. So I get why young performers are so excited to talk, to collaborate with him.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  It is true, though, what you said. There's, it's, it's, I mean, I've seen a lot of what is available right now for someone my age or somebody like me, and it's interesting. I'm like, gosh, like, there's such a curiosity and like focus on youth and yet it's so...

• 49:33Speaker 03

  One dimensional.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  And I I've played those roles before.

• 49:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  And I always saw that as a challenge in a way, or or something interesting like, oh, I I've always been grateful for every job I've had. And I've been like, OK, how can I take this character? And make her something more complicated, more complex, more real. And honest, but

• 49:58Speaker 03

  I've been seeing a little bit of like the flip side of that and been able to read some some really interesting things and meet some some directors who

• 50:08Speaker 03

  who uh it's it's it's been different. I've definitely noticed a shift and I'm grateful for that, you know?

• 50:14Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I'm excited to see what kind of things we're talking about in the future. I'm gonna end with this, Mikey. Be happy, say I confused profoundly random questions. Little little off topic, some of them. Some are important to you, like the first one, we were talking as you sat down. Dogs or cats controversial because I think you have both.

• 50:38Josh Horowitz?

  She has love for both guys.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  I do, I I Dogs to snuggle, cats to admire.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  I mean, my cat is, she's very stoic.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  And she's sort of like, I call her my metronome because she just walks through the house and I see her and she's there and she gives me comfort and she's beautiful to look at, but she doesn't need me.

• 51:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  But my dog, on the other hand, would simply just dissolve into thin air if I wasn't around. And I I like being needed like that.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  What about you?

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  I'm hardcore dog, yeah, I'm obsessed. My Instagram feed is all celebrities and Lucy, my my beloved dog, so yeah. What do you collect, if anything?

• 51:28Speaker 03

  I collect many things, but you said collect, yes?

• 51:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, what do you collect?

• 51:32Speaker 03

  I'm incredibly sentimental and so

• 51:37Speaker 03

  I so many things. Just like I like little beautiful things, little antique things, so like trinkets and anything that

• 51:50Speaker 03

  evokes some kind of like emotional feeling.

• 51:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Um, so my house is sort of filled with like vintage things, antique things. I used to collect seashells. I have some like jars of seashells. Vintage clothing.

• 52:07Josh Horowitz?

  Pottery. Mikey's a secret hoarder. We've we're discovering she. No, it's it's all all beautiful things.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  No, but it's um, no, but actually.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  I swear I'm at a hoarder.

• 52:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, you're not. These things have sentimental.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  I am certainly not a minimalist. I will never be a minimalist. It's just not who I am.

• 52:27Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 52:29Speaker 03

  My, oh, my my soulmate, my cat who I had for seventeen years and I just I will never be able to change that wallpaper. Do you collect anything?

• 52:38Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, again, I'm very on brand. I have a lot of movie posters.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Okay, I was gonna say, do you have like lots of Blu-rays?

• 52:45Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, yeah, I wish. I wish I was that guy that could say, I've got a ten thousand, you know, four K. I I don't as much as I should. Given who I am.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't you don't need to. Movie posters are.

• 52:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  And they're thin, too. You could just.

• 52:58Josh Horowitz?

  But I had nowhere to put them. I live in New York City and like, real estate is at a premium. I need like, a giant house.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  No, but you know what you should get?

• 53:07Josh Horowitz?

  What's that?

• 53:07Speaker 03

  You should get um, uh, one of those architect desks.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Where you pull out and they have all the space where you can lay the posters and like put a piece of tissue paper in between them.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  I like it. I'm gonna consult with my wife and she's gonna be angry at you for suggesting that we add that.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Sorry, it's actually going to leave more space. Because you can just collect them and stack.

• 53:30Josh Horowitz?

  I do have a lot of like poster tubes, like spilling out of my like closets.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  But this is better. You take the tubes away and you put.

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  First flight, Mikey.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Flat and they could be preserved.

• 53:41Josh Horowitz?

  I love it. I love it. Um, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 53:46Speaker 03

  I've I've never been mistaken for another actor.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  Truly, okay. There's one. There's only one.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  No, I don't mean it like that. But you know, I've always wanted to like play someone.

• 53:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  And I've never been cast in those roles because nobody. I'll be I'll be like, oh, maybe I could play this person and everyone's like, no, you cannot.

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  Who is one? Give me one that you wanted to play.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  Trying to think.

• 54:11Josh Horowitz?

  You've cast it out of your mind.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  There've, no, there've been, there've been like real life people, people are making films about and I just, everyone's like, nope.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  I don't see it, nope.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  Did you get mistaken for anybody?

• 54:22Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, I don't, no. Um, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 54:33Speaker 03

  To like be cooler. I remember one time a director's like, can you just do it more cool? And I actually was, I was very upset about that. And so I wrote, um, like an essay on my computer and I presented it to him and I read it to him why I didn't like that note, which is...

• 54:49Josh Horowitz?

  How'd that go over?

• 54:50Speaker 03

  He was like, no, I agree. It was a bad note. He was like, honestly, I, I can't believe I gave you that note. And after I said that, I felt, I, I, I was like, ah, what the fuck? Why did I give you that note? I was, I don't know why I, I, I decided to read him this monologue, but we're good friends and he's a wonderful director. But it was just, I remember it was funny and I was like, I'm gonna sit down and write this, why I, like, tell me why you wanted to be, I was, you know, being dramatic.

• 55:19Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my god. Okay, finally, a happy second few is an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen. You're in a good mood.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, I love Alana Glazer. I love the Broad City Girls.

• 55:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  And so every time I watch that show, I feel happy.

• 55:39Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Movie that makes you sad?

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Whenever I'm asked questions like this, I'm like...

• 55:50Josh Horowitz?

  It's like, I've never seen a movie before. Yeah, exactly, I guess. Pixar movie, a Princess Diaries 2, The Royal Engagement make you cry. What do you got?

• 56:02Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, uh, Mama, I Blew Up the Kid.

• 56:06Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wait, Honey I Blew Up...

• 56:08Speaker 03

  Sorry, duh.

• 56:09Josh Horowitz?

  Mama, wow, yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  No, not Mama. That's Honey I Blew Up the Kid.

• 56:12Josh Horowitz?

  So, not Honey I Shrunk the Kids, the sequel, Honey I Blew Up the Kid.

• 56:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:16Josh Horowitz?

  I have to go back and, I don't recall that being so emotional.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  Why did I say Mama? This is like a Freudian slip.

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  Mama, get me out of this interview, help.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I think I remember because I cried to my mother after seeing that, so it's very, yeah.

• 56:31Josh Horowitz?

  We went deep. And, uh, lastly, a food that makes you confused.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  A food?

• 56:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:39Josh Horowitz?

  See it on the menu.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Beats? I don't understand why people like them.

• 56:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  But I know that they're good for you and I want...

• 56:48Josh Horowitz?

  A lot of things good for you. It doesn't matter. Does it taste good? No.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  No, it doesn't.

• 56:52Josh Horowitz?

  No. I'm with you.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  You're also confused. This is not a food. Sparkling water.

• 56:57Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 56:57Speaker 03

  I don't like, I hate sparkling water.

• 57:00Josh Horowitz?

  Against all carbonated beverages?

• 57:01Speaker 03

  No, I like, I like some like sodas sometimes, but I just... Sparkling water is disgusting. It tastes like batteries. And I want to like it because I think it's very elegant.

• 57:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's classy water. It's classy water, yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  But I don't like it.

• 57:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Well, we got to a special place by the end. No therapy session for you this week needed.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  No, thank you for letting me unload all of that onto you.

• 57:28Josh Horowitz?

  Anytime, anytime. It's been a long time coming. I've been following your work for a minute and to see you really just kill it in this one and get all the accolades that you deserve is fantastic. Enjoy the wild ride. And I'm sure I'll see you later on in this crazy cycle, but truly, thank you for the time today.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  No, thank you. It was lovely conversation.

• 57:51Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.