Natasha Lyonne

Natasha Lyonne! Truly there is no one like her. The multi-talented actor, writer, producer, director, and all around fascinating human joins Josh in this live episode taped at the 92nd Street Y. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Uncommon Goods – Visit UncommonGoods.com/podcast/HappySad for 15% off BetterHelp -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BetterHelp.com/HSC ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for 10% off UPCOMING LIVE EVENTS 12/3 -- John David Washington at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here⁠ 12/18 – Billy Eichner at 92Y in NY – Tickets here 12/19 -- Ben Schwartz at 92Y in NY -- ⁠Tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! To watch episodes of Happy Sad Confused, subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Josh's youtube channel here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Jennifer Coolidge saw me at the Chateau Marmont, and I had straight hair. And she thought I was Hilary Duff. And I was so confused.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  I was like, maybe I've become too well. And you know what I mean? Because whatever I'm projecting is something I gotta scratch real quick. I have lost my edge.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:27Josh Horowitz?

  How's it going, everybody? Welcome. Thank you so much for being here tonight. I'm Josh Horowitz, and today on Happy, Sad, Confused, we're live at the 92nd Street Live with the one and only Natasha Lyonne. Yes. This audience in New York City has just seen a remarkable new film, His Three Daughters. It's on Netflix right now, but they got a chance to see it on the big screen. And I think you'll agree, it's a very special piece of work. So thank you for sharing your holiday weekend with this extraordinary film. I'm not going to say much about Natasha Lyonne, because this is truly an actor, a creator that needs very little introduction. An amazing filmography, especially the last few years. Let's just talk about Natasha as an actor.

• 2:10Josh Horowitz?

  A writer, a creator, a producer, Russian doll, poker face. She's killing it, and as you can see in this film. Also, just an amazing actor and another great contribution. And by the way, Upper East Side's own Natasha Lyonne. She's coming home tonight, so please give a warm welcome to the one and only Natasha Lyonne, everybody. Here she comes. Here she is. Dramatic applause. Look at that. There she is. How are you?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  The Far Side.

• 2:46Josh Horowitz?

  That's you. She's come home. Welcome home, Natasha.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  What do you mean by home, Josh?

• 2:53Josh Horowitz?

  Upper East Side. This is your stomping grounds, no?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, with some difficulty. Scholarship kid. I actually don't mind Lexington.

• 3:03Josh Horowitz?

  OK.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  It's really those Park Avenue, Fifth Avenue. I guess not Madison, I'm not even that mad at, but I don't like Park and I don't like Fifth.

• 3:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Those...

• 3:17Josh Horowitz?

  What about numbered?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Doorman, Mansion.

• 3:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  You know, old money. Because my mother and I were more York Avenue. The wrong side. The wrong side of Park. But Lex was always a bit neutral, and I liked that it had the subway.

• 3:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. No, these are important considerations. Thank you for sharing not only this film, but your holiday weekend with us.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 3:39Josh Horowitz?

  What does Natasha Lyonne Thanksgiving look like? What are the traditions in your life? Is it an important holiday for you?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Very important. It's the day I listen to the new Kendrick Lamar album. While reading. What am I reading? It's like a Tao of Physics or something? And there's also a workbook. Carlo Rovelli, White Holes. There's another one I was reading also. That'll come to me later. And, uh, so that was a nice day for me. Uh, in bed, I was invited to something in Brooklyn. Uh, my godmother did one in Murray Hill. There were a couple of others. Uh, God, it was terrific to just stay in bed and read my little quantum physics. My brain goes white noise.

• 4:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Which I like, 'cause it's above me. You know what I mean? I don't really understand, but I, I love that.

• 4:36Josh Horowitz?

  Did you come out fully formed like this? Was Natasha Lyonne as a child, as like at four years old, is this approximately the same person?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Do you mean that I'm dressed like Phyllis Diller?

• 4:47Speaker 02

  'Cause I'll have you know, this is Valentino, baby.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I, it does seem a little bit like I'm getting ready for a number of the Catskills. One time, somebody told me that I should do, um, a Tody Fields biopic. I took that personally. I'll, I'll be honest. Joan Rivers, you know what I mean? Betty Davis, late in life, like on Johnny Carson, like, like this. Even Lena Wirtmuller, I do. But, uh, of the women who lost a limb to diabetes, terrible condition, of course. Yes, I, I, I would sooner do Susan Terrell of Fat City than Tody Fields, and nothing against her. Uh, but yes, other Catskills players I would do sooner. Almost a bit of Carol Channing, I would say, going here.

• 5:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Were you...

• 5:39Speaker 02

  At four years old, fully formed?

• 5:43Josh Horowitz?

  An extrovert as a child? What would your friends and family have to describe you as?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I actually think that, um, surprisingly, I'm an introvert. It's just that once activated, I'm sort of a merry prankster. So, it's because you guys are here, even though I know it's only 120 out of 180. Now, I'm not taking that personally. I'm just sort of a numbers guy. Uh, I don't mean like the Penguin. I just mean sort of mathematics. The music of the spheres and so on. Um, so, yeah, it's weird. Like, where are those other 60?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Anyway, but thank you guys for coming.

• 6:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and they could have been at Wicked or Gladiator, they chose us.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  I mean, or they could have done a sort of Wicked Gladiator matinee. Anyhow, so...

• 6:35Josh Horowitz?

  Extrovert child, not so much.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Well, my family of origin, mother, father, older brother, I think that they were so living out loud that as the youngest, I was weirdly like the witness, the cataloger. Often I'll hear Spielberg, who is a one-to-one comp with me, as you must have noticed, you know, but he'll talk about that in his childhood sort of, but I was always sort of cataloging scenes, almost like I was setting them to music, little vignettes. Some say that that's, you know, like a trauma coping mechanism, but, or that thinking that you should be in the CIA is more like the hypervigilance of a child, or, anyway, good things.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  And, so I do think that I was a little bit of an introvert and a witness, but I just, I do love human connection and I love, sort of like the magic, the, almost like the spirituality of a third place that exists with jokes. So, you know, with the deli guy or something, the idea of having that superpower where you can say something in a rhythm and it causes an effect, it is so joyful for me that I think that's primarily my most extrovert quality. And it was alive by six, I would say, yeah.

• 7:55Josh Horowitz?

  I asked your friend and collaborator, Ryan Johnson, how he'd describe you to an alien. This is how he responded. He said, he'd begin to describe you and the alien would interrupt and say, Natasha, we go way back.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Yes, I'd agree. And I'm so glad you asked him the right question. Yeah, I think I'd do just fine on a, well, assuming, you know, I was terraformed and so on.

• 8:24Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk about, we'll circle back around to your amazing life and career, but let's talk about this fantastic film. His three daughters...

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Sean Penn used to do that all the time with real cigarettes.

• 8:40Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. He's the only person that ever did, when I was doing my podcast in my office, he came into MTV, just started smoking, totally against the rules, didn't give a shit.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, those were the good old days.

• 8:51Josh Horowitz?

  Were you smoking during this?

• 8:54Speaker 02

  I was, but I quit soon after. I lost my voice in the fighting scene, and I was like, oh, I'll just get steroid shots like I did for SNL. Carrie Coon, being a great theater actress, was like, no, no, you need to see somebody about that. Lizzie Olsen, being the beautiful human being that she was, was like, no, no, you should see someone about that. And anyway, I loved them very much, so I listened and quit smoking. But you see, now I'm smoking this rave device that I can't imagine is better for me.

• 9:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's pure health, right there, I'm sure.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Peter O'Toole on Letterman. Was he smoking, or he was just telling anecdotes drunk?

• 9:38Josh Horowitz?

  I think the latter, maybe both. Yeah, yeah. This film, you mentioned your co-stars, all of you guys are fantastic in this. Parts written specifically with you in mind by Aza Jacobs, which is not necessarily the norm, I don't know if that's happened to you in the past, was that something that took you by surprise? And when you saw what Aza had in mind for you, what was your reaction?

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Well, you know, moved, I would say, what happened, honey? You need a tissue?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  By and large, now that I've been doing this for 400 years, you know, I really do think it's about the quality of the people that you're working with. So, when Aza had mentioned Carrie and Lizzie, it was just so special and specific, and it proved to be so. And, yeah, I mostly had people write for me, or written for myself, with some, you know, development there intentionally. So, I was a little bit like, why don't I get to be the Carrie Coon part, only because it would have felt, you know... Like a stretch.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  I think I've always been a little bit disappointed in my career as an actor. I always imagined that there was gonna come a time of like Merchant Ivory, other things, accents, period pieces. So, you know.

• 11:09Josh Horowitz?

  What could happen?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Well, and so to open something and see that yet again it was sort of the pothead who was like a little bit out of her move, I think because of, you know, Russian Doll and all that, I really wanted to find a way in that was totally different. And I think in large part, my favorite thing about her was how little she spoke.

• 11:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right. The first half of the movie, essentially, it's you are a bit of an observer. You're holding a lot back.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Josh Horowitz?

  And yet conveying a lot. So that does feel like it's a different challenge.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think I'm hyper-verbal. Well, we don't talk about Kevin Spacey anymore, but his character was verbal.

• 11:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yes. Usual suspects.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  One of my favorite shots, that end shot with those little foots. Yeah. I sometimes do impressions of that. Not everyone gets it.

• 12:04Josh Horowitz?

  Not as popular anymore, but still effective.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Yes. Still a great shot. So, yeah, I think I'm usually somebody who does large speeches quickly. And I loved the idea of listening and then getting very internal and sort of like dropping all facade. I think I often do that, you know, for love of the game. I hate whisper acting, which I think is a new disease. I won't name names.

• 12:38Josh Horowitz?

  Conveying importance just simply by...

• 12:40Speaker 02

  I fucking hate it. Like, I'm just like, please give, I want you to win your awards, but I can't watch this. Because sort of like a Willem Dafoe would never, even though he seems sort of reserved, it would never happen. Emily Watson would never, you know, and Jack Nicholson in A Five Easy Pieces even would just, it just wouldn't. And there does seem to be a modern disease on screen of like, you know, I don't blink and I talk down here. I hate it. Entertain the troops, I think. So, but with Rachel.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  There was something about just being able to listen and let go of any facade and really question, you know, why? Why all those cigarettes? Surely it is a way of keeping some space between me and you because I'm just so sensitive, you know? I'm like so soft. So removing the sort of like harsh facade or even in a weird way the jokes and just listening, yeah, I really liked that part.

• 13:51Josh Horowitz?

  My sense is the making of this film is kind of the ideal. Like this is the kind of thing that you have probably always wanted to do, that just doesn't happen a lot. This is a short shoot, not to say that you want less time, but it's down to business, 20 days, it's a personal story, it's, I don't know, talk to me about like, does this feel like the platonic ideal of filmmaking for you? Is this like what, kind of what you've been looking for as an actor for years?

• 14:21Speaker 02

  No. Or I guess maybe once, you know, as a teen, reading Cass Betty's on Cass Betty's or, you know, sitting at the back of, weirdly, the New Beverly in L.A. with like a 40. I don't drink anymore, obviously, but maybe I should reconsider. Sitting in the back row by myself every day and watching the full rundown, you know, holy shit, many in Moscow, it's wow. Love streams, holy shit. There was a time in my life where this was really it, or seeing Catherine Carle, Catherine Cartilage and David Thewlis in Naked and really being like, this is what I want it

• 15:04Speaker 02

  to be about now as a director and a writer. And, you know, I think in part because of these merchandisers and stuff, but I think I was always that guy, I was that tish for filmmaking, not drama at 15 years old. Double major with philosophy, so I'd have something to make movies about. And I don't think I really had a fantasy of being off camera, I think I was just looking at comps like Albert Brooks or something and feeling like, oh, that's what you do when you're sort of a fast-talking New Yorker, you kind of mount your own. So now, though, I think my love of sci-fi...

• 15:46Speaker 02

  You know, I'm working with Ted Chiang, who obviously wrote the short story that Arrival is based on. And I do quite like the idea of scale. I feel like I'm 45. You know, I've done, I don't know, maybe 200 indie movies. Maybe four of them are watchable. And this one is obviously magic. I mean, it's such a gift and you really feel it. Totally anonymous, you know, nobody knew about it, no announcements, 17 days. And we just went all in. A very special thing. And then to have that response from people. By and large, though, yes, I would, at this age, like to be wielding,

• 16:31Speaker 02

  I don't know, something more in the style of like a Catherine Bigelow or something. You know what I mean? Like a real, a fucking movie movie that you can actually sit and watch.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  You were just in a movie movie. You shot Fantastic Four.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, although that really exists in its own framework entirely. It's almost its own genre.

• 16:54Josh Horowitz?

  Was that a learning, though, to be a part of that giant machine? I mean, they do things a very particular, interesting way, I would imagine.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was certainly interesting to witness.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:07Josh Horowitz?

  Was it a surprising phone call to get, or?

• 17:09Speaker 02

  You know what I'd love to do? A movie almost like, well, I guess he also fell out of fashion, Lupus on. But.

• 17:17Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't make it any less great.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  You remember when Gary Oldman like pops that pill in The Professional? And you're like, what the fuck is happening? Like, a movie at that scale is something I would just love to write, direct, produce. I don't fucking care being it, you know, like. And then edit and, you know, create a score, really market it, like the whole thing. That, to me, would be much closer to a fantasy. Like, that era of sort of filmmaking. And also that it would have entertainment value and sort of this double resonance. So that it would feel deeply personal, but also something that would hold over time.

• 18:01Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I would imagine also you've had this experience, and any actor is lucky to have a few in their career, when work succeeds on multiple levels. And you've had it in recent years with things like Poker Face and Russian Doll, where it is personal, but it also, it reaches the masses. And that's gotta be, kind of like, on the television side of things, the ideal.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that I didn't, you know, I mean, I was a teenager for so long, maybe still. And, so I don't think I knew. But now, I sort of understand the purpose of scope. It's so significant, like, to actually have something reach an audience, because it means something about connection happens, and then there's even an act of service that happens there. It's very fun.

• 18:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:55Josh Horowitz?

  Can we talk a little bit about the early acting experiences? I mean, the one that jumps out on the resume very early on, and must have been a formative experience, is working with Paul Rubens on Peewee's Playhouse. Did Paul stay in your life? We lost him way too young, just about a year or so ago.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. Paul and I stayed tight. And, I mean, I guess I would say that as a kid, as a New Yorker, I always wanted to be like De Niro and Scorsese, or sort of like a Pacino figure, or Michael Mann, or, you know, a tough kid, a tough guy. We were very into Rocky and the House, the godfather taxi driver. I'm talking like, you know, seven, eight years old. That's why I have that tough guy accent. So, it never really occurred to me that I was a comedy person. But now, looking back, I'm like, oh, fuck. Paul Rubens, I'm gonna drop another great name, Woody Allen. You know, and I can see that there was a lineage

• 19:54Speaker 02

  of, you know, ending up so much with like Fred, Maya, Polar.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Sort of, I was really in that school somehow. And Paul really was the first. I love Paul Rubens. And he was so kind to me, always. And I would go to his house. And towards the end, he would even call me, I guess he was doing this documentary that the Safdie's were producing. And he was like, "Do you think I should really do it?" And it was such a, you know, that vulnerable turn that happens late in a life where I'd asked him over the years so much for help and advice. And I was like, "Yeah, like, Paul, you're such a beautiful human being. You know, there's nothing that you couldn't expose."

• 20:41Speaker 02

  I think I believe in that a lot, in a transparent life, and that we're all so human, that it would make it a lot safer to lie less.

• 20:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's one of those people that, like, when he passed, you realized the effect he had on so many people, because everybody, like, everybody came out of the woodwork saying, "Oh, he sent me a birthday message every year." And he did that for, like, 10,000 people.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, and they were really special. Like, getting that Christmas card would mean so much, yeah. And on your birthdays, I was working, I'm dropping a positive name now, Carol Kane. We were working on a movie together, and maybe it was her birthday or mine, and it was so surprising to see. This was before GIFs were popular. There were no iPhones. And, you know, he would send all of us, all these GIFs, that were so special on your birthday. It was a big event.

• 21:35Josh Horowitz?

  If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager, and thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help. And need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy, Say Confused, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody. So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing, a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

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• 22:59Josh Horowitz?

  frustrating back and forth. They make it easy. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without

• 23:43Josh Horowitz?

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• 24:28Josh Horowitz?

  I've got a cashmere hoodie that is honestly invaluable and actually makes me look like I know what I'm talking about when it comes to fashion, and that is a miracle. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you've heard about them, you know what to do. Let them know it was happy, sad, confused. That's the best way to support our show. I rewatched Everyone Says I Love You because I love that movie. We can say what we want about Woody, but that's a great movie.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Really? Because to quote my mother at the premiere, "Not his best."

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  Really? You don't think it's a great movie?

• 25:16Speaker 02

  I'm like, I thought it was fine, but I was like, yo lady.

• 25:20Josh Horowitz?

  It was a big swing at the time.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Also, she wore a fur coat to the premiere and I was like, please don't do this. PETA.

• 25:29Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, so...

• 25:31Speaker 02

  They were big in the 90s.

• 25:35Josh Horowitz?

  Natasha Lyonne, number one on the call sheet of a movie that had Julia Roberts at the height of her powers, Edward Norton was just coming into his own. I mean, that cast was stacked.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Stacked. And a lot of people were actually cut. I don't know why I'm doing this, but I think Liv Tyler and Tracey Ullman were cut, which was also like the shocking revelation about this business that has nothing to do with how gifted you are, dah dah dah dah. It's like, a lot of things have already been written. I think once I really transitioned into a showrunner, a producer, you know, rushing to all that shit, like, I started to really understand how much I'd mistaken... ...about my experience as an actor, thinking it was on you to choose me, and realizing that actually you had something very specific in your mind as a writer, that, yeah, I was never gonna get that part of, you know, bad girl with eyeliner on CSI Miami. You know what I mean? It was just not gonna happen.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  They had a totally different vision.

• 26:31Josh Horowitz?

  In retrospect, did that experience teach you something about being number one on the call sheet? About kind of being the one that people look to, in a way?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it was an oddball one. I'm now quite tight, well, tight. But Ed Norton has proven to be like such a lovely figure in adult life. And at the time, I remember being very challenged by him because, you know, I was number one on the call sheet, but the only non-famous person in that movie. And so, just things like, for example, now I love Drew Barrymore. But I'll never forget the first time, meeting her, I looked up to her so much. What was that movie? Girls on the Side or something?

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Boys on the Side.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Ah, Boys. And...

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  It's one out of two.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And for some reason in my mind, it was sort of like the first movie star I met, who was not 5'11", but was actually like 5'2". And she was just so cozy, and she was like, "Oh, I love you!", and hugging, and sort of Beatles songs, but she seemed so tough externally, meaning they were all so famous. And I remember one time, Ed Norton, sort of, Woody said something to me. I was outside Harry Winston's, before our musical number. A classic. And, "My baby just cares for me." And Woody said something, we'd worked together a lot already, and then Ed said something to me, like, "So what he means is..." And I looked up at him at like, you know, 15, like, "Who the fuck do you think you're

• 28:01Speaker 02

  talking to? This guy's Woody Allen. I'm all good, Primal Fear." And, so it was weird in that sense, that I was number one, but sort of at the bottom of the heap, relative to it.

• 28:16Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, to your point, he had made like one movie.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  In fairness. But at the same time, it was... You know, yeah, it was just very educational, very intimidating, and just so special.

• 28:30Josh Horowitz?

  A couple of years later, Slums of Beverly Hills, which is an important one, and Tamara Jenkins has actually come up here a bunch in recent discussions. Catherine Han was here. We talked about Private Life, which is another great movie.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  You know, I'm so grateful for that movie. I loved Tamara so much, and Alan Arkin and...

• 28:52Josh Horowitz?

  A legend.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  From Holtz I just worked with. He's on this season of Poker Face, and so was Kevin Corrigan, and Adam Arkin is the producing director. I remember the other book from Thanksgiving. It's a Nick Bostrom follow-up to Superintelligence. I'd say it's not as reader-friendly.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  But, yeah, I just, I loved Tamara so much. She continued to be somebody that, you know, she was an East Village person. Recently, she moved to Brooklyn. A big mistake. And, but when she had a kid and stuff, I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna be okay because of her. And she had to work so hard. I was spending a lot of time with Mike Rapaport and Kevin Corrigan at the time, so my New York accent was very intense. When I get nervous, it gets more intense, and she would always be pulling that back. And, my god, did I love Alan Arkin.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it feels like...

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I loved him so fucking much. The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming, come on.

• 29:49Josh Horowitz?

  You have a thing for lovable curmudgeons, and I feel like he's the Peter Falk, Alan Arkins of the world. They fit into the box set.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  I guess, oh, yeah, and just so, so funny, so, honestly, just so good at what he fucking does. And then Carl Reiner, Rita Moreno, and I still, I'm very close with Marisa Tomei, oh, right, Jessica Walters. I mean, it's a, I just, I'm so grateful that that movie exists, like, because, you know, we all die at the end of the movie, so I'm glad I can leave that behind.

• 30:23Josh Horowitz?

  The, um, a much different kind of a movie that got you a lot of attention, a lot of the young actors, is something like American Pie, which, I don't know, for someone like you, does that feel like you might as well be in Lord of the Rings? It feels like an alien universe to...

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I'd much prefer to be in Lord of the Rings.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  I turned down that movie like five times out of sheer confusion. You know, because I was at Tisch by 15. So I had no tangible experience of, you know, going to like a white person high school and then doing like dates for prom. I had no idea what the movie was about and I think that I was sort of morally against it. That said, Chris and Paul Whites are lovely and I think I also have never really enjoyed the idea of like, you know, these are the hot chicks and you are other. I'm like, that's not that fun, guys.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  And now, you know, with 400 years between me and the film, I can see that it's very interesting that it touched a nerve for people and that they felt seen in it. You know, I love Jason Biggs, I love Eddie K. Thomas very much. But yeah, I was very confused by the film.

• 31:41Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna rattle off a couple other films. You just tell me first thing that comes to mind, doesn't have to be long, up to you.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  We have nine minutes left?

• 31:47Josh Horowitz?

  No, we've got about half an hour still.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Oh, what's that clock trying to do? Oh, it's the actual time.

• 31:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's the actual time in the United States right now.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Well, not all of the United States.

• 31:58Josh Horowitz?

  That's fair, that's fair, she's right, she's right. Scary Movie 2, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  What'd you say?

• 32:05Josh Horowitz?

  Scary Movie 2.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Oh, well, you know, there's a big story there. So, first of all, I do love Kenan Ivory Wayans.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  That said, when I got that call, I was like, what kind of a bum do I look like? And they said, hold the roll. It's you and Marlon Brando. Because he was going to be playing Max Von Sydow.

• 32:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  To my Linda Blair. I said, say no more. As it turned out, when he arrived on set, and by the way, there's so many people I love in that movie, you know, it's really like, yeah, Regina Hall.

• 32:44Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  And she's a fucking, that's a major person. And anyway, Brando shows up, I still have it on VHS. He has an oxygen tank and an earpiece and I'm wearing full prosthetics and I have to say things like, your mother sucks cocks in hell. And... There's a delay when he responds, you know, and says, you know, "The power of Christ compels you." And, yes, it was such a special day.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  And...

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  That didn't make the final cut.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  No, because, I mean, I would be curious. You maybe could find out.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  I don't have Google.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Was that his last movie?

• 33:38Josh Horowitz?

  It might be. It might. It's certainly towards the end. Yeah, I'm not sure.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  We find out?

• 33:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, someone get on Google.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  I've wondered this before.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  But then, you know, well, the puzzle comes out, the crossword puzzle, and I move on to other things. But I think it maybe was his last film. And, yeah, the next day he was not there. James Woods was. As soon as he saw me full Lend a Blair makeup, he was like, "Oh, so you're a spinner." And I was like, "What does that mean?" But I was a big fan of his. I mean, Casino?

• 34:16Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, great actor, no doubt.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Is that him in Videodrome?

• 34:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  I mean, fucking A. Politics, a real doozy. I like that we're just bringing up canceled people today.

• 34:27Josh Horowitz?

  We're really razzing them all.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, we all know the same information. Doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyway, and Andy Richter was there, who I adore. And, so, yeah, it's mostly for me about the VHS copy.

• 34:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I got you.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  But the footage doesn't really hold, because there's a lot of spaces between things. I should maybe do a little edit on it.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right, snip to, for the legend of Brando.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yes, I couldn't believe that I got a chance to work with him, though.

• 35:00Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have a moment to revel in Apocalypse Now stories, or no? It was just not?

• 35:04Speaker 02

  I don't think he was really there at that time in his life. But in my mind, surely.

• 35:09Josh Horowitz?

  You've probably never been asked about Blade Trinity. Is there anything to say about Blade Trinity?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Well, David Goyer, the writer-director, had also done this other film called Zig Zag. Zig Zag also had Wesley Snipes, it had John Leguizamo, and Oliver Platt as my pimp. And Wesley was so fucking extraordinary in this movie. It was a real indie film tiny. And then on Blade Trinity, it was so funny. I'd never seen somebody do this. He had a tattoo double, a profile double, a body double. And he would really, you know, he would do his close-ups. But he's so fun to act with, but on the reverse, yeah, he wouldn't be there. And it was just so wild because on Zig Zag, he was fully present.

• 35:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I think he and Goyer, something had happened, like they were not clicking.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think he was just really exercising and getting his tattoos on. And the other thing that was so special about that movie was, I remember I had straight hair and little glasses, and I was trying to be a blind scientist. I don't know that I had fully put in the work. And so when I went outside in Canada, wherever we were, probably Vancouver, I smoked a cigarette with Chris Kristofferson, and I had straight hair. And he said, "Oh, you're a real Janis Joplin type, huh?" And I was like, "What are you talking about? You know, I have straight hair." And there was something very moving about not having fooled him.

• 36:40Josh Horowitz?

  He saw the real you.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just, that moment alone was worth the price of admission, yeah. I'm not sure I've ever seen the film, I should say.

• 36:50Josh Horowitz?

  You've got the memories, it's okay. You've got Chris Kristofferson memories. The second act of your career, jumping ahead, which begins on the stage back here in New York, correct? So obviously, if they have Google, they can check out some issues that you dealt with in the middle part of your life.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  I have no idea what you're talking about.

• 37:09Josh Horowitz?

  You make this remarkable-

• 37:11Speaker 02

  I dropped out, I had six children. Started a farm to table and I did good work, I wrote three novels. I think that's what he was referring to.

• 37:19Josh Horowitz?

  That's what I'm talking about. But you make this long journey back and you need the trust and empowerment of other people to give you opportunity. Who do you credit with helping giving you a jumpstart in the second act of your career?

• 37:31Speaker 02

  I mean, 100% Chloe Sevigny, who really is my big sister. But essentially, she vouched for me to Scott Elliott, who was running the new group, still is, for this Mike Lee play called 2000 Years. And, yeah, she really did that thing. She vouched for me. I guess Darren Aronofsky had also written a letter about something else a little bit later. Hey, give her a chance, just like Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler, you know? Like, insurance policy stuff.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it was really Chloe.

• 38:06Josh Horowitz?

  Did it feel like in those early experiences, like, you were relearning or learning new skills, like you were starting from scratch?

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, fully. I mean, I'd always done it as a child. It was never my dream. It was my parents' dream. You know, my dad wanted to be a boxing promoter. My mother was on point at a very young age, a French woman. So, you know, ballet and boxing. So, they wanted to be famous. So, I always felt like it was a very dirty thing. And, you know, it was a gift.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  So, but it was like being able to play music by ear, coming back through the theater. Like, when I dropped out, I thought it was pretty complete. And I would think about things like, maybe I could get a job at NASA. All right, I don't know anything about that.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  And the theater really retrained me. I mean, I got to work with, like, Anne Doud.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Ethan Hawke was very significant. Sam Gold, Tigers Be Still. Nora Ephron and Delia Ephron. Carol Kane, Tyne Daly. And they were sort of like retraining me on something else that I didn't totally understand. And-

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I kind of made it my own thing. Just to say, I mean, I was a major movie person. Like, I mean, I'd gone to the Film Forum every day for like the quadruple feature. I knew all about, you know, pre-code Hollywood. I'd read every, you know, Sidney Lumet making movies, every Nick Ray, you know, I was interrupted. Like, I was really that guy. And very much believing in film and writing and directing. I was just such a serious, it's in my bones type of person. But it did really allow me to have, you know, filmmaking altogether on my own terms.

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• 41:12Josh Horowitz?

  Having said all that, how it is in your bones, I mean, the experience of finally getting to co-create, produce, really be the key creative force along with Leslie Headland and Amy on Russian Doll must have been huge.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  I mean, it was really, you know, and I still think I'll probably do like a fire walk with me and then a Russian Doll: The Return. You know, those characters don't die. Like, so I'm not too worried about it. If I had more time right now, I think I would actually spend some time on it. I just... Well, you know, the business has really changed. It doesn't, you know, that sort of autory kind of, you know, TV sort of had its moment. And I'm so lucky that I was on that wave. But, you know, you gotta give time time and not really rush it, I think.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  And, um, but Russian knowledge is thing that, I mean, we put together the all, like a first all female writers' room. I'd been writing iterations of it for years before. You know, I even got together with Leslie and Amy on it. You know, they weren't good, but they were the beginnings of things. I'd always used Nadia, sort of like Bukowski would use Harry Chenasky. I just decided, based on Nadia Comaneci. And, um, I knew that there was a story there that I wanted to tell, something about being sort of like, you know, undead, all that jazz, all that stuff. Or even The Singing Detective, or even JoJo Dance, Your Life Is Calling, or even the beginning of Once Upon a Time in America, when he's getting that phone call in the opium den, looking back at a life.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  And putting together all of those women in that writers' room and really coming in the first day with a, you know, Wilhelm Reich book. And, um, it was not logo therapy. It was, oh, right, Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, and I was like, it's a half-hour comedy. It's gonna be sick, you know? Picture this, but like more Lou Reed. And, yeah, like, reaching at the outer limits of our brains and sort of feeling that we were up against it and failing. And it was, it was a magical thing. And I remember just days where I would walk on, you know, writing, directing, producing, showrunning, starring, holy shit, and chain smoking, over budget, COVID.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  And I would do that thing where I was like, you know, I'd heard about it. You know, obviously, I did go on a whole spiritual journey, walkabout, whatever you wanna call it. And, uh, drug addiction. And, uh, so, but I would look down at my feet and all that stress, like, walking onto the stage. And I really would have that moment where it would come over me and I was like, holy shit, you're exactly where you're supposed to be, unlike almost anything else I've ever experienced. And it was very powerful. Like, I...

• 44:08Speaker 02

  I'm just so grateful for that fucking show. It really like, it let me know, it was also something about, I think I was very bullied as a kid in high school for being the other, and the fact that people understood what I was up to and identified with it was so fucking healing. It meant so much to me, yeah.

• 44:25Josh Horowitz?

  How's Poker Face Season 2 going?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's going great. We're almost really done now, I guess, I'm directing the finale, and that'll do us. So...

• 44:36Josh Horowitz?

  Last year you directed Nick Nolte. Have you had a similar amazing moment? I mean, he's...

• 44:40Speaker 02

  And Terry Jones, who's extraordinary. Oh my god, Nick Nolte was so fun. And Phil Tippett was there, and that was amazing. I loved it. This year, I guess I directed a second episode, but I went first. But Ryan directs the pilot technically, as he should. Oh my god, and his episode is just bananas, it's so good, it's like the inside of Ryan's mind. And then, yes, I think this finale will be quite fun, and, I mean, it's been a great season. I mean, we have so many, like, and there's just so many loves of my life in it.

• 45:15Josh Horowitz?

  You mentioned all the actors that you came up with that became friends, they're all popping up, Chloe, Gabby's in the season, right?

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, Gabby Hoffman, who's technically my oldest friend except for Evan. But, because Gabby was, I guess, like, we're talking about Woody a lot tonight, but it is the Upper East Side. And, but, yeah, so I think Gabby was like 12, and I was like 14, 15, so technically she's my oldest friend.

• 45:44Josh Horowitz?

  Have you lost your eligibility...

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Meaning that I stayed in touch with over the years.

• 45:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right, not, yeah, got you. Have you lost your eligibility to be in a Knives Out movie since you've played Natasha Lyonne in a Knives Out movie?

• 45:55Speaker 02

  I would think it depends how many they make. Like, I would think if he ends up making like 42 of them, I could see a reappearance. If three is the last one, I would say I'm not in it.

• 46:07Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, the ship has sailed. We're gonna end here. The Happy Sad Confuse profoundly random questions, Natasha, are you ready?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Did you say happy sad?

• 46:15Josh Horowitz?

  This is the podcast you're on, I know you don't know it.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Sure, why not?

• 46:20Josh Horowitz?

  Big fan.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Does it have ads?

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  Does it what?

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Ads.

• 46:23Josh Horowitz?

  Does it have advertising? Yeah, we could advertise for your product.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I don't own this thing, but...

• 46:30Josh Horowitz?

  Red Bull?

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Uh, two things that I should be sponsored by. Evan, maybe you could help. Or at least upon my death.

• 46:40Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs or cats, Natasha?

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I, uh... Root Beer is 14. That's my dog. Heidi was a rottweiler I had. I loved.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  So, Smokey, Neapolitan Mastiff. Much bigger as an adult than as a puppy.

• 47:01Josh Horowitz?

  Tends to happen that way, doesn't it?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I do love dogs, although I would say I'm allergic to cats. And if I was not... I mean, I do love a cat.

• 47:11Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  I really do.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  But I don't love that they have a litter box. I think it's disgusting. But yes, and I'm not a big fan of dogs in Manhattan. I think it's also sort of disgusting.

• 47:25Josh Horowitz?

  Which, which aspect?

• 47:27Speaker 02

  It's sort of like wearing flip flops in Manhattan. Like, what's wrong with you? This is the wrong location. You know what I mean? This isn't Club Med.

• 47:34Josh Horowitz?

  There are plenty of places to do it, not here.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Cover your feet up. And so I feel that way about dogs in Manhattan. Like, what are you walking through this muck? You know?

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Would David Dinkins walk around like this? I don't think so.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  I knew Dinkins would get a name check at some point tonight.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Hey, Dinkins always gets a name check. And also, remember littering. Remember in the 90s, you would get drunk, you were a teenager, and you would just like get some pizza on a paper plate with some cellophane, and you'd just throw it out the window.

• 48:03Josh Horowitz?

  Forty days, yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  On your way downtown. Nobody remembers? Yeah, you had to be there. It was New York. But yes, I think always cover, cover your toes. If you're in New York, it's disgusting.

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  I hear you.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  So I think that's how I feel about it. I love dogs in the open air. Yes.

• 48:20Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 48:21Speaker 02

  I would like the idea that a cat could, you know, live in the house.

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  I got you.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, no problem.

• 48:26Josh Horowitz?

  Do you collect anything?

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I actually collect a lot of vintage Freemason stuff. And often, it can get you out of trouble. Because a real Freemason will think you are a Freemason, potentially high level. And they'll do things for you. For example, one time, a used car dealership, a car salesman, well, I got into a little fender bender. And I would say it was my fault. And then, when he got out of the car, he saw my Freemason secondhand pawn shop jewelry, and he said, "I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that you were like, a high priestess," or something. "And why don't you come with me back to the shop?

• 49:13Speaker 02

  I'll get you a new car." It was a Mercedes. I had Karen Black help me buy it, because I was already in a studio city or somewhere I didn't understand. And it was like, a Joan Didion Mercedes, sort of like, a banana colored. I'd always wanted one. So, I'm just saying that it was very helpful. And ever since then, I've sort of continued to collect it. No interest in being a Freemason, a super sketchy group. But, it happens to be something that I collect.

• 49:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Today, it's root beer. Often, it is Diane Lane talking to Ray Winstone, and ladies and gentlemen, the fabulous stains. And he says to her, something like, you know, she says, "Maybe I'm everything you always wanted to be." And then, he says, in the middle panel, "A cunt." And she says, "Exactly." And punk rock as hell. And if you just leave your phone around, yeah, people don't fuck with you. Yeah. When I've seen Diane Lane and complimented her on the film, she's always like, "Not my favorite." But, if you say that to Laura Dern, she's fine with it. Yes.

• 50:27Josh Horowitz?

  What's the last actor you were mistaken for? Does it ever happen?

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Hmm, not really. I was offered the Pacino part in Glengarry Glen Ross. And, I don't know, it doesn't come up often.

• 50:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  I guess so, maybe if I have straight hair. Oh, yeah, I remember once, you know, I dropped out for a while, you know, because I was writing all those novels. And Jennifer Coolidge saw me at the Chateau Marmont, and I had straight hair, and she thought I was Hilary Duff, and I was so confused. I was like, maybe I've become too well. You know what I mean? Because whatever I'm projecting is something I gotta scratch real quick. I have lost my edge. Hillary seems like a lovely person.

• 51:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, no.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  And sometimes I'll look at pictures of her and be like, I think maybe this is a good thing. I think they mean this kindly.

• 51:26Josh Horowitz?

  How deep into the conversation did you get?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Not very far. Jennifer moves quickly. She was sort of like, oh, I thought you were Hilary Duff. And I was like, I'm not. And it was over. But, yeah, I would rather be mistaken for like, you know, Keith Richards or something. But, yes, I guess, well, I'm a Hilary Duff sort. You guys can see that.

• 51:49Josh Horowitz?

  You're kind of the cross between Hilary Duff and Keith Richards.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 51:54Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Ah, not to bring it back to Woody, but I actually think this is a good note. He would say, yeah, do it again, but don't put the audience to sleep. God, that would sting. Julia Roberts did not love that sort of thing either. We would talk about it, hug each other in the bathroom of the Gritty Palace crying. I really like her. She was the most movie star I'd ever met in my life. She had like, she was literally, you could bask in her golden glow. And I guess it's very hard when directors tell you about the result that they want. You know, I think true directors...

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Sort of walk you there on accident, like they almost tell you about a third thing over here, like a magic trick, and they get you sort of focused over here, and the next thing you know, it's like you're crying suddenly in the middle of a comedy scene, and you don't know how you got there. They have a sort of superpower like that. Otto Preminger sort of would do that with Jean Seberg, but not kindly. He did burn her at the stake. But I do think that some of the greats really were sort of like master, almost manipulators, for lack of a better term, because I do think it's a, they were maybe sick in the ways they went about it, but they would systematically get you to a different location, almost to

• 53:24Speaker 02

  like shake you out of, sometimes it's like an actor's disease that you'll start doing it musically in the same way that you've done it before. And whenever you hear your voice switch as an actor, like if you show up in an audition and you're like, "Hey, nice to meet you, Natasha," and then they say "Action," you're like, "Hi, so, you know, I'm Mary from the store," great dialogue. So you can tell right then that you've lost the plot, and somehow to like kind of bring you back. I don't hate, I've worked with Jodie Foster as a director, and she did line readings, and I thought it was fascinating, because I was like, "Oh, she was probably so young that this came up, and nobody told her that it was not normal," and I actually liked it from her, because I was like, "No,

• 54:08Speaker 02

  no, I'd rather know how Jodie was gonna do this than how I'd do it." But, yeah, sometimes it's a little bit interesting, but sometimes they're wrong. I've also had other, I won't name names, an 80s Brat Pack figure directed me in something, and I was like, "Well, maybe that's how they would have done it in that movie, but I'm not really playing a WASP-y type," so sometimes it can be very challenging if they hear it rhythmically another way.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:37Josh Horowitz?

  Someone needs to let you direct a feature. You know more than 90% of the directors that I interview.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:43Josh Horowitz?

  It's very clear.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm not too concerned with it and I thank you. But, well, I'm at a place I don't think they'll have to let me. See, Evan's gonna get me this deal upon my death. And, yes, I think that I can. I just, it's time, you see? That's my big resentment with this life. 9/29, sure. So it really is a bandwidth, you know, parallel self type thing. But surely I'll get it done. I don't know what year it is, but probably within the next five years, one hopes. You know, if all goes.

• 55:28Josh Horowitz?

  You'll come back here and we'll reunite with Evan and we'll talk about the feature directing debut and it'll be a gay old time.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  That sounds wonderful. But, yes, it's on the docket. I'd like to direct, yeah, five pictures before I die and I'd like to get better at surfing.

• 55:44Josh Horowitz?

  There's your to-do list. Your to-do list is spread the good word of his three daughters. Congratulations, honestly. The performances are fantastic.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's a special piece of work. The one and only Natasha Lyonne, everybody. Thank you for coming.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Thanks for being here. Thank you, Dr. Horowitz.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Thanks, guys. Happy Halloween or whatever season this is.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 56:30Speaker 06

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

• 57:13Speaker 06

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.