Leon Scott | How To Use Your Influence

Leon Scott is a Semi-Professional Footballer, Model, Influencer and Online Coach. The worlds of modelling, football and Instagram aren't often extolled for their virtue or commitment to mindfulness, but Leon is a non-typical member of these groups and is using his platform to promote mental wellbeing to the thousands who follow him. Great to sit down with a kindred spirit today. We finally got to discuss how we both feel about having a desire to promote mental wellbeing through our channels and the requirement to balance that with the "game playing" which is needed to be successful online. Extra Stuff: Follow Leon on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/leon3scott Leon's Website - http://www.leon-scott.com - Video & production by Dean Hindmarch https://www.deanhindmarch.com/ https://www.instagram.com/deanhindmarch - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/modern-wisdom/id1347973549 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0XrOqvxlqQI6bmdYHuIVnr?si=iUpczE97SJqe1kNdYBipnw Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - I want to hear from you!! Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Email: [email protected]

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  Hello, hello, hello. My guest this week is Leon Scott. He's a semi-professional footballer, a care worker for people with mental health problems, an Instagram influencer and a model. He's also a practitioner of mindfulness. It's a non-typical set of attributes for especially someone who's quite young to have. And that's the reason that I wanted to get him on. His audience on Instagram is very big and the message that he puts across is quite unique, talks a lot about virtues within life, happiness and non-material goods whilst also being flown to Las Vegas and LA to do photo shoots and obviously operating on

• 0:43Chris Williamson?

  a platform which is usually quite transactional and surface deep. I wanted to give him an opportunity to put across an alternative point of view to the one of the typical Instagram influencer footballer mindset and he didn't disappoint. I'm hoping that this will open a lot of people's eyes to where genuine happiness can and should be found.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped moving? You start, you freeze in there.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.

• 1:40Chris Williamson?

  Please welcome Leon Scott.

• 1:59Chris Williamson?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Leon Scott's joined me.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me, mate. Thank you for having me.

• 2:04Chris Williamson?

  Thank you for coming up. It's making me feel incredibly pale. I'm not used to, as the co-host of the show, Johnny and Youssef, one's a powerlifter and one's a gymnast, so I'm not used to being the not, not the leanest person on the couch either, but I think we're competing with each other today, which is, which is totally fine. How are you? Are you good?

• 2:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm good, mate. Very good, very good. Thank you.

• 2:24Chris Williamson?

  Brilliant. You recently moved football teams, right? You're at a new team.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  I did, mate, yeah. I'm at Whippy Town at the minute. Enjoying it. There's a few lads who I know that play there. I've played there before, so it's a returning club. Very friendly, family-run club. So yeah, I'm enjoying it, mate, and it's good to be back enjoying the football.

• 2:44Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic. So for the viewers and the listeners that don't know you, can you give us a little bit of background about what it is that you do? You've got an interesting eclectic mix of elements of your life and I want to try and

• 2:58Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:58Chris Williamson?

  give a nice background.

• 3:00Speaker 04

  A bit about my background. Well, in terms of social media-wise, how that sort of all kicked off was, I think it must have been about seven, eight years ago now. I was quite lucky and fortunate. It was actually, funny or not, as you've mentioned, I was playing for Whippy Town. How it all started. I was playing for Whippy Town, just normal football, going about my normal thing. And there was a young guy with an idea of a clothing brand back then, seven, eight, seven, eight years ago. It wasn't really a big thing back then. Well, not many people done it. It was a, now you see, every other person's making a clothing brand up. But back then, it was one like, only your Nike's, your Adidas's and so on and so on.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  So yeah, he had that, he had an idea. He asked me, would I model his brand? Um back then I'd never done no modelling, I probably wasn't as confident in front of a camera. Um so I said, yeah, yeah, let's give it a go. Um he was from Scarborough, met up at Scarborough. Um and we'd just done a few shoots and funny enough, the brand now is probably one of the biggest brands within the industry that I've worked in, which that being Six Silk.

• 4:07Chris Williamson?

  Um I mean, they are, they were like the first mover.

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, they were the, they're, back then, they were the first people to do it. Um I believe they were the first people to do it. It was a big thing to get it on a reality TV star back there. Um you know, if you could get it on someone from Johnny Shaw, from Tommy, et cetera, et cetera, it was a big thing. Um now it's just the norm. Um so he managed to do that back then and that.

• 4:31Chris Williamson?

  That's all they wore. I remember, you know, anyone who remembers like the proper heyday.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:34Chris Williamson?

  Scotty T and, and, and Gaz and, and those guys, that was.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that, that was it and that, that was his big break. Um because back then they wanted to wear it. Um it was, it was okay to wear it. Now it's, it's, I'll only wear if.

• 4:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  It's endorsements, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a lot harder now. Um so yeah, so that, that's how it all started for me. Um I modelled for him. Um and then more brands approached me. Um Jim King being inspired, a lot of other big brands. Um I think my big break came from Footy's Island. Um they approached me and asked me to do a campaign out in Ibiza. Um and for me, it was something where I've always went on holiday, so to go there and actually be paid.

• 5:21Chris Williamson?

  And be able to see.

• 5:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, it was a bit of an eye opener because I do remember we were doing a shoot in, in Ocean Beach. And it was all day season. So we've been sectioned off on one corner trying to do a photo shoot. And everyone else is in Ocean Beach, partying, dancing and raving.

• 5:39Chris Williamson?

  Brits abroad.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Exactly, giving it this and all that while, while, while I'm trying to keep a straight face. Um so yeah, that was a bit of an experience, but uh from then it's just been a, a complete snowball effect for me, but. Um on top of that, right at the start, I've always worked full time. So it was quite hard to interlink it all together because my full time job for six years was working with uh people with autism and Down syndrome.

• 6:02Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Um so although that was intense, that was very rewarding as well. So when I did get a chance to do the photo shoots for me. It was more of a, not, not so much of a deal, but more of a like, wow, can I, is this, I'm, I'm getting paid to do, it wasn't, didn't feel like work.

• 6:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  Um, so obviously when I went back to my normal day work, I wa- I was full of energy and very grateful of, of, of me being able to do that. When these guys potentially maybe never experienced what I was experiencing.

• 6:30Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:31Speaker 04

  Um, so I did find a lot about myself in between all that. Um, and I just, it was just like I said, a complete snowball effect.

• 6:38Chris Williamson?

  You got a big contrast there, right? So you, you know, you're going to go and work with people who've got learning difficulties and, and real behavioural problems. And then you're going out to some of the best party destinations on the planet.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 6:51Chris Williamson?

  So it is, I mean, that will be, must feel like a real contrast.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  It was, it wa- it was, like I say, that, that, I think that right at the early stages is where I did learn a lot about myself. Cause there were some jobs I had been on and, you know, and every job I went on, I am still to this day like blown away by me, I'm getting paid for doing this. Um, you know, and, and I think that's when it all started for me in terms of, um, like appreciating and all that type of stuff. Because when I went back to my day job, you know, it, it, it was just a complete, it was just two completely different fields, a, a, a area of work. Um, so when I was on the modelling type thing, um, it, it, there was some people that I did do jobs with and, and like,

• 7:36Speaker 04

  they didn't really fully appreciate what they were doing or what they were given or the opportunities of where they are and what was going on. It was still a bit of a, sometimes a snotty attitude, I'm the model, I'm this. And I was just, sometimes that really confused me with people. Um, and to this day, seven, eight, nine years down the line, I still try not to give that type attitude, you know? Cause some people, when they are in shoots, they believe or they still think that model is the model, the model is the main person of the day. It's not, it's like, it's, it's a collection of everything, you know?

• 8:06Chris Williamson?

  You're there at the, at the behest of the show. Do you know what I mean? You're there to give whatever clothes it is. It's the guy that designed the clothes and put a hundred, a hundred and fifty different samples through.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  It's not about the model, exactly. It's, it, it, it's the brand that you're working with. And again, I, I believe that's what got me a lot of work back. Not always my looks, I don't think. It wa- it was. It was the impression I given on the day and and what I give back and my appreciation. Um, and I don't only just think that, a lot of people said that.

• 8:39Chris Williamson?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:39Speaker 04

  You know, we we loved working with you. It was easygoing. It was, we had a laugh. It didn't feel like work with us. Um, so we'd like you to come back and do another shoot.

• 8:48Chris Williamson?

  I mean, you know, it's nice, it's nice to hear that someone who goes into an industry that is quite um, shallow by its very nature, like you are there for your looks.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:58Chris Williamson?

  Um, that if you do go for, go there for that, that people are still taking notice of the way that you conduct yourself and things like that.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Oh massively, massively. I thought, don't get me wrong, I think looks is a big thing. You see summer and you're attracted with straight away by the eye. But if there's no, if there's nothing past that, then it doesn't keep you there.

• 9:17Chris Williamson?

  I agree. So what was the actual role that you were doing with, uh, people with learning difficulties and people with autism?

• 9:22Speaker 04

  It was basically managing them to live their everyday life.

• 9:26Chris Williamson?

  What was the, what's the job role, title?

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Um, support worker. So I was a support worker. So it's basically that they struggle to to live an everyday life as we do. Um, things get up, brush teeth, get the bus, go to college, go to work. Um, go to doctors, go to hospital, see family, et cetera, et cetera. So we'd, we'd help them and support them within that day. Um, so I'd go to work, I'd get delegated with one, one individual. Um, and I'd support him throughout his day, make sure that he lived the life as normal as he could. Uh, within his means as everyone else. Uh, you know, cause, cause they do struggle, like they wanted to go and visit parents. What bus do I get? Where do I go? We'd support them with that and we'd make sure they're, like I say, living life to the fullest as much as they can.

• 10:10Chris Williamson?

  Are you employed by the NHS for that?

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Um, it was, no, it was a company by U V U. Um, they're, I believe they're based in Harrogate.

• 10:16Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  But they have like, they had about seven houses within the North East, so.

• 10:20Chris Williamson?

  So people lived on site?

• 10:22Speaker 04

  Yes. So it was a, it was like a tenants of, so it was a big house with five tenants in. And we had a staff team, we said ten to fifteen people. And obviously with that's, but there was different houses around the area, but the house I was based in worked was they were all young and very outgoing because that's what I liked. And not that, I did go to the other houses, but there were also the older age who liked to sit and watch telly and play board games. Um, and I think to get. My full attention and my, to be able for me to deliver the best I could, I'd like to be more hands on and like, you know, like pass on my fitness type of thing, like going to football. I brought some to my football games, took them to the gym, you know what I mean, try, try to push them like, a lot of them are young lads and wanted to live like young lads, but

• 11:07Speaker 04

  maybe didn't have the confidence, maybe didn't have the support and, and that's what we were there for.

• 11:11Chris Williamson?

  That's awesome. So you've touched on it there that you also play football. So we've gone through one part of your life, which is the, uh, the modeling and Instagram, gone to another, which is the support worker and you're also semi-professional?

• 11:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, semi-professional. Back then I was at Darneton, so, uh, that was quite intense. I was a.

• 11:27Chris Williamson?

  Darneton's a very high level football team.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  It was, yeah, we were, uh, I was there for six year and we won four promotions in that year. I was captain for three years, so that was a very successful, uh, time at Darneton. Uh, we've won a lot of promotions. The club got, um,

• 11:43Speaker 04

  they, they, they went down five leagues. There's a big story behind it. I don't know if you're not aware of it back then. Back then, I think we was bankrupt, so they were in a big stadium, they dropped down five leagues.

• 11:52Chris Williamson?

  They'd have been at Featham's, right?

• 11:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right. So they dropped down, um, it's always been around like a professional club, as I am, got a bad, bad word to say about the club, um, you know, the, the big fan base for a non-league team is still getting like 1,500 through the gear, which some League Two clubs don't even get that. Um, so yeah, it was a very good time there. We won, like I said, four promotions and so it was a little bit, a lot, I say hard, it was, it was hard, but it wasn't hard because everything I was doing didn't feel like it was hard, if you get me. Like, it wasn't like, I do, like, these guys that go to work and, you know, a, a brickie or whatever you wanna call it, like, I feel they're graft. I feel like that is hard work.

• 12:34Chris Williamson?

  Agreed.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  And, you know, and so for everything I was doing, I was obviously modeling, flying around the world, going to work, uh, in, in terms of support, support work, helping the young lads. And then I was going to football. None of that felt like I was really grafting apart from the only time is when I was going in the gym.

• 12:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  And I was, that was the only time where I was coming away, I was thinking, God, I feel knackered here.

• 12:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  But yeah, I was just trying to keep all the three together and keep them all tight because if one fell, I felt like it linked into the other and so on and so on. So I needed to keep in shape because of the modeling and I wasn't allowed to get too big because of the football, you know, and it wasn't allowed to get too tight because then I'd underperform at my job. So.

• 13:14Chris Williamson?

  Delicate balancing act.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it wa- it was hard and people say, how do you fit it all in? But it's that old cliche, it's twenty four hours in a day and you know. There's some days where I've travelled to to London and arrived at eight o'clock, uh eleven o'clock at night. I've got to be up at seven and there's a twenty four hour gym or something in the hotel. I'll go down, shoot a quick forty five minutes, half an hour, get to bed. So I would always make sure I I'd done something to keep within a feel good factor, cause if I didn't, I felt it affected my attitude and the way I felt. So it was like.

• 13:44Chris Williamson?

  What's your natural personality? What's your natural kind of mindset like? You know, without you. Um if you've just got a normal day and you're going about your business, what's your mindset like? And then what's it like if you don't train? And then what's it like if you get it really good? Do you have swings and mood swings?

• 13:59Speaker 04

  I wouldn't say mood swings in terms of like I'd I'd feel um. The more I tend to do, the more energy I've got, the less I do, the less energy I've got. So I like to stay busy instead of going to the gym, being productive. Um if if I find myself sat around doing nothing, I feel. I always feel guilty of myself as if it's time wasted. Um I find it hard to shoot to shoot off. Uh which my girlfriend always says, just relax, you're allowed to watch telly, you're allowed to do nothing. And I'm like, well, no, it's time wasted. I can be reading, I can be listening to podcasts. I can be working on something, I can be at the gym. I always feel like I've got to be doing something and if I don't.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  I have learned to accept, which my mindfulness has has allowed me to do that. I have learned to accept that it is okay to do nothing. Uh whereas in the past I did struggle with it and there's still times when I do struggle with it, cause like I say, I like being very active and and. And learning and progressing, like what have I done today that's made me feel better or what have I done today to improve or. These are the type of questions that I ask myself before I go to sleep each night and if and if he ain't got an answer any. Nine times out of ten, I have a bad sleep because I can't wait to get up the next day to.

• 15:13Chris Williamson?

  Get after it.

• 15:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, to change these answers that I've given myself.

• 15:16Chris Williamson?

  Uh, it's interesting that there's a lot of parallels that I can draw between your experience and mine. You know, some of the, some of the listeners at home may be surprised to hear that someone who is a semi-professional footballer and an Instagram model and, you know, flying around the world, modeling for brands that are worn by party boys and party girls.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 15:34Chris Williamson?

  Is also one of your main concerns is what sort of value am I adding to my life and the lives of others?

• 15:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:41Chris Williamson?

  It sounds quite contrary, right?

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:44Chris Williamson?

  Different sort of mindset.

• 15:46Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, you can see why people think that and look at that, but, you know, I, I want, which is the reason I did release my two books. It was to give some people back of what I've like done myself and learnt myself, test, trial and error. You know, I mean, I always get, which goes back to my job of supportive living. Um, I always get a kick out of helping someone maybe progress or, you know, just chatting to someone in terms of what can I help with? If I can't, maybe we can just have a chat and listen, you don't have to take it in, you know, but I, I'm always open to help and I want to help. Cause I, I get like a, a little buzz off that, that that person has, has maybe learnt something off me or maybe I've passed something on, I've learnt off someone else. Cause I always feel like, although I like to give advice,

• 16:32Speaker 04

  I'm always wanting to learn as well. I'm not, I'm, I'm never gonna be a master, I will always that, that the old saying, I'm never gonna be master, I'll always be a, a learner, you know, I'm always wanting to learn.

• 16:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Um, so yeah, it, it, you can see in obviously that type, type of lifestyle, but.

• 16:47Chris Williamson?

  If you, if you take the headlines, if you take the headlines, semi-professional footballer, Instagram wanker, all the rest of this stuff, you know, flying around the world, got a good looking girlfriend and going on holidays and blah, blah, blah. But it's the same for me, like people say, ex-reality TV star, club promoter, does the Instagram thing, like cunt. Like, do you know what I mean?

• 17:05Speaker 04

  No, you can see it and that, that's just, that's just painted on us by society, but them, them things like. It it sounds crazy because I I still to this day don't believe I'm I'm not a model.

• 17:17Chris Williamson?

  You're just model.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I I exactly, but I genuinely believe that because I've never for in my eyes, models are the guys that, you know, do do big fashion shows, design to agencies, they're working with the these big billboards, the aftershave, the watches. To me, them guys are the models. We've just, me personally and potentially like yourself and potentially the other guys who do that out there. Well, we've just gained a little bit of a following through social media and now we're used to model because of our following. Um, because these brands know that we've got an all right following that's seen by a lot of younger kids. Whereas the the real models with the agencies who are seen, they're like, they're not really used by the clothing brands.

• 18:01Chris Williamson?

  But the the one of the main things as well with my experience, especially in commercial modeling, is that the, I'd love if someone knows the statistics, please comment below, but I think that probably eighty to ninety percent of what would be classed as modeling work will be e-comm. So it'll just be some guy and a photographer and maybe a stylist if you're lucky on a infinity board in a studio, just shooting clothing shots. And you're like, because that's the highest volume. Anyone who's listening, you've gone on to JD Sports to have a look at the new top, the Nike top that's just gone up or whatever it might be. Like that photo needs to be constructed and it looks like it's maybe, you know, a two second job.

• 18:43Chris Williamson?

  It's actually quite an arduous process to go through. And I think that that and you know, that's where the real that I always make the joke. That's the only time that for me, modeling never feels like work. Like it doesn't really feel like work when you're on location.

• 18:54Speaker 04

  No, yeah, it's always e-comm, yeah, yeah.

• 18:56Chris Williamson?

  Like that's.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Particularly, yeah, that then there's what I'm not hard work again. I was still all up whenever I turn up, I'm always grateful. But them are the days where I did turn up, say I had to get the train six in the morning to get a Manchester to shoot for Footy Saloon. And I'd look at the rail and it'd have like about forty fifty T-shirts on. The T when it's T-shirts as well, it just feels like it's not going down if you take one off, are you looking again?

• 19:19Chris Williamson?

  It's such a any any models that are listening will know the feeling when you. Looking at a rail on the other side of a photographer and you're just like, we've been going and then what you start to do is you look at how much time you've been in there for. Work out how many garments you've shot, extrapolate that forward and then you're like, right, so I'm doing one T-shirt around about every. Four, four minutes and fifteen seconds. So if I really speed up, video guy Dean's pissing himself behind the camera because. He knows exactly the pain that we're talking about.

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it was one of them as back then I had really long hair, so I guess I was like whipped back. So it's like, I had to really like slowly get my T-shirt on. Otherwise, if I just whacked it on quick, then I'd have to go to the makeup and hairstylist who'd redo my hair. So it was like a long process.

• 20:03Chris Williamson?

  Fucking crystal, mate.

• 20:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, literally. But yeah, then I'd, I'd look at the rail as like you were saying there. And I, although there was fifty T-shirts, I'd like, right, let's try and nail through. Oh, I'll be done by one. And from experience, I'd do that and then all of a sudden they'll bring another fifty and I'd be like, fuck.

• 20:18Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's what that's it.

• 20:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, from then on, I'd be like, right, I'm just gonna time it until it gets to four, so they can't bring another forty out.

• 20:26Chris Williamson?

  Oh, you might as well knock off. I mean, an- another thing as well, was it at the Sharp Project where you went for Foot Asylum? Where JD Sports shoot the Sharp Project in Manchester, or is it Media City?

• 20:36Speaker 04

  Uh, no, it might have been the Sharp. It was out in industrial estate for.

• 20:39Chris Williamson?

  Huge, big, huge, big thing and you check in at the front, it's all gated. So.

• 20:45Chris Williamson?

  For anyone who doesn't know, JD Sports own pretty much all of it, but they own Blacks, which make outdoor gear. Retail outdoor gear like Trespass and North Face and stuff like that. They've got Foot Asylum, they've got themselves, et cetera, et cetera. And you have never, ever seen a facility like this. So you'll have. Infinity Wall, uh, shooting studios, you'll have models facing models, so you'll have two photographers working away from each other. If you can imagine like a, an alleyway and at the end of each alleyway is a model that's facing each other and in the middle of the alleyway is two photographers facing away from each other. And then you've got another alleyway next to it. It's like four of these alleyways, each with a stylist, each with a photographer.

• 21:25Chris Williamson?

  And then as the rail gets completed, the photographer will crop the photos to the, um, particular aspect that. Required to go up online and then there's a mezzanine level like a balcony that overlooks where the digital team is. And something that you photographed twenty minutes ago will be up online, ready to sell.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:44Chris Williamson?

  It is, it's a fucking force of nature that place.

• 21:47Speaker 04

  It was like a circle, literally, yeah, and just fi- just fire around and straight, as soon as, as soon as you shot it, it'd be back on the website.

• 21:53Chris Williamson?

  When you, when you see something like that happen, that's when you realise just how sophisticated the e-commerce industry is now. Like, they're not fucking about.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  No, the, literally arrived and it's on the, online, so that, that was like, it just worked so quick. But like I say, I, I used to always do every Thursdays, they'd have a certain model for a certain look. But they had these shoots, they're nearly every day, you know, like this model suits this look, so we've got in for that day, this model suits that, we've got in for that day.

• 22:20Chris Williamson?

  They've got, um, they've got a set of analytics on the back end as well, where they track the sales of garments based on the model.

• 22:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:27Chris Williamson?

  And then they're like, oh, th- this particular guy's selling a five percent better than this person. And like, this is maybe for yourself as well as someone who's kind of got a bit of a, a hunger for learning shit. Like, I had to distract myself from wanting to understand the operation that was going on. To actually focus on my job, which was getting the fucking photos taken.

• 22:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:50Chris Williamson?

  Cause I just, I just wanted to be like, oh, right, so where does this go? Oh my god, and it's up, it goes straight up there and they can put it online straight away. So how many do you do a day? How many models is there? They're like, Chris, can you just slam on the fucking mark for me, please?

• 23:02Speaker 04

  So mine was the other side of that, as you were really interested, that, I was always really interested in the photographer's side.

• 23:06Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  So I would always walk over and say, oh, how would you say that? How would you learn that? Right, right, and I'd ask so many, just, just go back.

• 23:14Chris Williamson?

  Can you fuck off on the other side of the camera?

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Which is where later in life I've progressed and I've done photography courses now.

• 23:19Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  So now I know, I have like ISO and all this type of things, but I'm not massively known on it all, but it was always something like, wow. How's he got that shadow there? How's he got that light there? It's something I've always wanted to learn and progress in, so yeah, like you're saying, you.

• 23:34Chris Williamson?

  My background was on the ox and you're on the photography.

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Photographer's side, yeah.

• 23:37Chris Williamson?

  You've touched on the mindfulness before and I think this is where me and you probably have quite a lot in common. Um, would you be able to explain the journey that you've had with regards to mindfulness and, and where you started? And what sort of learnings you've been exposed to and stuff like that?

• 23:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, it all started with a, I wasn't very. Well behaved, that skill in terms of, I had a very short attention span, I couldn't really sit in class and listen too much. Uh, wasn't very good at reading and writing. Uh, so it was like, I used to always see people and all they're reading books and I used to think, why the fuck they reading the book, you know, and, and I'd like, now I get it.

• 24:13Chris Williamson?

  Was that as a, was that as a kid maybe?

• 24:14Speaker 04

  As a kid, yeah, of course, that was a kid and I, I just didn't get, I used to think, I'd rather be bombing in the pool, I'd rather be at the bar, like, you're wasting your time, but they're not now, like, I get it, you know what I mean? So it comes into where my first book was my motivation manifesto, by Brendan Butcher, and it was like, I read that and, and everything just started being so clear and making sense and then, I downloaded an app called Calm, which was free for seven days for anyone listening, maybe give it a go. Um, and I've done fifty, it's like fifteen minutes of meditation. And the reason I enjoyed it is because I put it into practice and it worked actually, and it worked, you know, it was like,

• 24:57Speaker 04

  wow, this shit really works. Like, I'd do it and what I was getting told, I'd be like, all right, okay, I'm gonna try that. And then I'd try it and I'd get a good feeling or a good reaction back. So it was just like, it, it just, it just progressed and then from the app, I started Googling courses, there's a course not far from me, um, the main Buddhist monk centre in Darlington. And there's a guy that comes around our area every Monday now, I'll meet up with him, I've got very friendly with him, I've learnt a lot of him. Uh, and, and just, even just when I walked into the room, my first, I just remember my first day when I went into the room. Uh, I ju- I just, it was, I just looked at him and just, without him even speaking, I was just like, you look so happy. Like, li- like, you know, like, and, and he sits telling us stuff out the front and, uh,

• 25:42Speaker 04

  and, and the way he's telling his stories, he's just chuckling at himself and then, and he's saying like, he's explaining like, a pro- is a problem really a problem? Like going into detail and I'm like, it's not, no, like, what you're saying is fucking powerful and it's real, it's, you're like, I've never read this before, I've never experienced this before. And he used to always say himself, like, I ain't just saying this because. I wanna say, I'm saying it because it really works, you know, this, this is, this, this type of stuff actually works. Um, so try it. So, you know, it was one of them where I, I did try it. I put things into practice. And it, and it just progressed and every time like I do more, I wanna do more and more and more and more.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  So, yeah, that, that's what all started. It's, and I'm still on that journey now. I, you know, I wanna learn more, I wanna go deeper. I wanna maybe travel and do more meditation and learn more about it. Um, I try to stick to fifteen minutes a day. There's some guys out there that do two hours a day. You know, maybe I'm not, I know, well, I don't think I know I'm not at that stage yet because it, it's hard, but.

• 26:43Chris Williamson?

  It's very, very difficult, yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 04

  But, you know, I, I did at the start, don't get me wrong, at the start, we, um. We went to the class and one of my, me and my best mate, when we first went there, when I told you about. And some parts, we did look at each other and chuckle and think, what the fuck is this? And, but back then, we look at it, you know, and maybe that's why people don't do it, because they think, whoa, whoa, close your eyes. Hmm. They think it's all this type of stuff, but it's actually not. It's, it, it's working on becoming a better person from within. You know, and a lot of people wanna work on what looks good, but a lot of people are blinding on working on what feels good.

• 27:21Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic, fantastic point. I think one of the things that's super interesting is that doing, when you work in an industry like modeling, very transactional, very surface deep and the whole Instagram thing. It is awash with people that have got undiagnosed um, mental health problems or charisma issues or uh, in- insecurities that they're then projecting on social media. And something that I always thought would be hilarious would be if in some different iteration of the world, we were able to have an Instagram that instead of showing someone's outward condition, was able to represent someone's inward condition.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 28:00Chris Williamson?

  And if you were able to compare the person who's got a lot of followers and looks happy and is always, you know, i- in a fantastic place with, on holiday, taking photos in the sunshine and smiling and laughing. And you think, okay, if we were actually able to flip that and show your internal state, what sort of photos would we see from that?

• 28:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:21Chris Williamson?

  And I think you're totally right. The Calm uh, apps, apps like Headspace and Calm are, they were a great introduction.

• 28:29Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 28:29Chris Williamson?

  Um. Guided meditation is fantastic for people who need to make an entry into

• 28:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:35Chris Williamson?

  Into meditation. Um. To hear that you said that doing two hours a day is difficult and people think, oh, you're just sitting, sitting alone with your thoughts. How hard can it be? Let me tell you, I went and did a meditation retreat in between Christmas and New Year. So there's a place at Belse up here, Tibetan temple that we went to go and do it. And myself and Yusef, who's done a ten day, ten hours a day retreat previously. Yeah, so he was, he was already quite well conditioned towards this, but for me it was going to be new ground.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:04Chris Williamson?

  And the plan was to do, to total ten hours of cumulative practice throughout the day. And we got to six and I just had nothing left in the tank. And it's, it's difficult for me to describe what it feels like to have nothing left in the tank with regards to meditation. Because inherently, it's quite a relaxed environment to be in. But when your day is spent silencing your mind, noticing thoughts as they arise into consciousness, labelling them and getting rid of them, and then starting again and focusing on your breath. But it's like doing, it's the same as doing a marathon.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's tired.

• 29:38Chris Williamson?

  It really is.

• 29:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that, that's what, that's, that's what I mean. But a lot of people, you worked at that and you kept going on that. And that's obviously sort of the stage that I'm at. And like, my girlfriend, she does it sometimes with me, but sometimes she struggles with these thoughts that come and whatever comes. So, but she only thinks of these thoughts when she tries to meditate. So she tries to keep herself busy otherwise, so she doesn't think of these thoughts.

• 30:01Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Um. So she, she, she's learning, she's getting better, but what I tried to pass to her, that's, that's normal, that's okay, you know, these thoughts will come, you know, it's learning to accept. And, and, and like you say, brushing them aside, they'll come again, accept, brushing them aside. And it's like anything, you know, you go to the gym, you train your bicep, you do it twice, you do three times. It gets bigger, it gets stronger, gets wiser. And it's exactly the same as the mind. Like I said, where you're doing thirty seconds today. Right, okay, we'll do forty seconds tomorrow.

• 30:31Chris Williamson?

  Progressive overload is king, man.

• 30:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that, and that's, that's key. And it's just, it's every day, you're just, you know, just that little more, that little more. And, and these thoughts become less, you know, and them thoughts that you used to think of in the first ten seconds, you might not even think about for the first four minutes.

• 30:48Chris Williamson?

  Totally right. I think, you know, what what I've found, especially as my practice has deepened and Brian, my meditation coach will be listening now from America, what I've realised as my meditation practice has deepened recently is not necessarily that the thoughts don't arise, it's that your capacity to be able to deal with them is just so much, so much more, so much stronger and the ability to let go, you know, something arises and you can just let go.

• 31:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that's the that's the main point for me, learning, you know, sometimes these thoughts, regardless, these thoughts will always come, they will, I believe, until I get deeper or further, who knows, but the thoughts will always come, but the connections with the thoughts for me has got weaker.

• 31:35Chris Williamson?

  Hmm, you don't identify as much anymore, right?

• 31:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. So it's not like, they come, they're there, you go, they'll come, you know, whereas before they're coming, I'd be like, oh.

• 31:46Chris Williamson?

  You're attached.

• 31:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, getting really annoyed with it and couldn't fully understand why I was getting them forward, so I fully understand like why that was happening and that, but now I'm like, so.

• 31:56Chris Williamson?

  Well, you either, there's only two ways, based on the Shinzen Young book that I'm reading at the moment, there's two things that happen, you either identify with them or you suppress them. So it's an attachment or it's a suppression.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:05Chris Williamson?

  And you're like, right, okay, I don't want to do either of those things, because if you try and suppress thoughts, that's still not dealing with it, that's putting a cloth over the top of the kale of a bird. Yeah, exactly. It's not working, you're not actually dealing with it. And the same thing is when you begin to identify with them, you're like, right, okay, well, now I'm like, I've jumped into it. I don't need to do that either, I just need to accept it for what it is and let it go. So something else that I really, I really wanted to talk about was your training.

• 32:30Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 32:31Chris Williamson?

  I think that, you know, a lot of people know you online from the fact that you do online courses and you are in good condition and stuff like that.

• 32:38Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 32:39Chris Williamson?

  How do you think that marrying the mindfulness and the training stuff and your sport as well, has working on your mind helped you with regards to your performance in the game and your performance at football?

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Massively. In terms of football, I used to be a, I still sort of am, because it's sort of my game, a really aggressive player. I'm a centre midfielder, aggressive, the ball, tackle it, break it up, pass it on, move it on, the not so talented one.

• 33:05Chris Williamson?

  Monday, Vinnie Jones.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  Exactly. So, yeah, so, but it's like me.

• 33:11Speaker 04

  As I've got older, the mindfulness is to control these, you know, I've got a lot of sending offs back in my day. But now I'm a bit more, a bit more clever about the way I go about things because like I said, the mindfulness has helped me with that. To deal with like, you will always get the odd player winding each other up, but I always feel like I can win that mental battle when we're winding each other up now. You know, so, so the mindfulness has definitely helped me on the football pitch. Um, and also like learning to control situations in the heat of the moment. Um, cause everything that arises for me, not just in the football hall, but in life, in the gym. My first thought is practice, it's training, it's training. You know, so if I become, whatever, whatever difficult challenge comes ahead, perfect opportunity for my mind to get trained now.

• 33:54Chris Williamson?

  Hmm.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Um, instead of, oh shit, I can't deal with this. For me, it's like, oh brilliant, this, this problem's come up. So this is a perfect opportunity for my mind to, to tackle this problem and overcome this problem. And without this problem, my mind will get stronger. Um, so things like that on the pitch in my mind, like the mindfulness has definitely helped me. Within the gym, it's made things a lot more clear and a lot more, um, acceptable for me, you know, like. Like I said, back in the day where I got really big and it wasn't acceptable for modeling and then I have to trim down for football, you know. So there was a bit of a like, I was always battling with things. So now I feel like I found that like, that, you know, that, that fight club lean type look that everyone types like, I know.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  I wouldn't say everyone, but majority of people do like that lean look, um, all each to their own. I know some have got to do competitions, et cetera, et cetera. So. But yeah, I think overall the mindfulness, I think has massively helped me in, in, in everything I do, my work, my football, my gym. Um, which is why, like I said, which is why, put it into practice, like anyone watching, give it a go and put it into practice. And you will see, it's not, it's not just me saying it because I want you to do it or, you know, I'm.

• 35:07Chris Williamson?

  We're not on a commission scheme here for meditation, worldwide meditation.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  I'm just saying it because it, it, it's worked, like the, the shit's like, it's, it's happened. I wouldn't do, I wouldn't. Put this way, you wouldn't continue to do something that's not working, that's not giving you good feelings.

• 35:22Chris Williamson?

  You look at, you know, as a good example as well for yourself, you are a, a guy that. Wants to try and continue to refine different elements of his life, right?

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:31Chris Williamson?

  You're looking at, I didn't read, now I read. And I didn't approach football in this way and now I do. And I used to train in this particular fashion, but I found that this worked better for me. You're totally right, like.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:41Chris Williamson?

  Do you think that if mindfulness wasn't working for you, that you'd just continue to smash your head against the wall for fifteen minutes every single day? No, you wouldn't. You would, you would, you're doing it because you get this thing out of it. I, I think, I, what do you think is the UK's or the, the normal UK, um, young person's approach towards when you, when you mention mindfulness? Because sometimes when I say it to people, I just get this look. And it's like, uh, I, I, I don't know. It's like, it's like I've spoken about being a fucking stamp collector or something.

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Going back to my younger days, how I would have thought, if you told me when I was a bit younger, uh, and probably the rebel that I was and a little bit of that background. But if you told me it then, I'd be like. Yeah, no, the, my first picture.

• 36:25Chris Williamson?

  My thoughts for fifteen minutes.

• 36:26Speaker 04

  Well, my first thought is these guys in these dresses and, you know, and it's like, who the fuck wants to do that? And that, that's probably the majority of what a lot of lads or younger lads would do. Or, or they're made to be like, what, you sit there with a monk who meditates? Whoa, that's not cool. You know, but it's like, but you go to the gym and you're working on your outer look. How about try and work on your inner look and see the difference in how you feel? So it's just becoming, you know, more aware and showing people that it works and, and, and letting people accept it, you know, and, and, and doing it. So, so, yeah, it, it's one of them. It's, I think it's a bit, not daunting, but maybe a bit, it's not a bit manly for a man to sit and do a meditation.

• 37:07Chris Williamson?

  I, I think that's, that's a good point that, as you know, when both northern lads, I were both from T side, like, it's not the sort of place that I heard meditation talked about an awful lot as I grew up.

• 37:20Speaker 04

  No.

• 37:20Chris Williamson?

  Like, and, you know, maybe if we were in LA and there was like a fucking juice bar on every corner and, you know, everyone's vegan and they're, you know, wearing no, not wearing any shoes, everyone's walking around fucking barefoot. It's just, it's more, I think that kind of more progressive side of things i- is there. And obviously America's got a lot of different influences on it, it's quite fast moving. Um, there's something inherent as well, I think, in the British people that everything's just a bit shit.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:45Chris Williamson?

  Do you know what I mean? Like, everyone's like, the weather's crap. And on this fucking, and there's traffic and there's this and there's that. And I think everyone tends to be a little bit more critical about it, but.

• 37:55Speaker 04

  But that, that, that's what I mean, that is the, for me, that is the reason why you need to do it.

• 38:00Chris Williamson?

  Yes, well, you've got to deal with the shit traffic and the shit weather, right?

• 38:02Speaker 04

  Exactly, so, so obviously, by, by constantly, like, you've got shit weather, you can't change the weather, the weather's shit, you've got shit traffic, you can't change that. But what you can change is your feeling and your attitude towards that. You know, and, and that's where people feel, oh, fucking traffic, oh, fucking weather.

• 38:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  You're gonna, are you gonna continue to do that and moan about that all your life? Are you gonna try and deal with it in another way so you can sit in the traffic and accept the traffic? So you can walk out in the rain and enjoy the rain? You know, and, and it's not always, don't get me wrong, it's not always gonna be like that. We, we all love the sun. Um, so, but i- i- it's working towards that and making them feelings a little bit better. You know, when, when we go to work and we sat in traffic and we're beeping our own, but maybe just sit there and chill out and just accept it and smile at it.

• 38:49Chris Williamson?

  Well, I think I, I wrote a, wrote a, a article that right now will be out in Muscle and Fitness for this, uh, this particular month, the month of February, and it was on mindful muscle, I called it, and it was a two and a half thousand word, um, testimonial to mindfulness training and then a couple of prescriptive meditations that you can do yourself. And, um, in that, one of the parting thoughts that I had was that your mind is all that you have and it's all that you've ever had.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:15Chris Williamson?

  And your life shouldn't be spent at the mercy of the next action or thought that comes careening into your con- consciousness.

• 39:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:24Chris Williamson?

  Like, if you spend your entire life at the mercy of things that are outside of your control, you're literally handing your life over to everything else. If you, if you know that traffic will set you off and the weather will set you off and your missus having an argument will set you off and this, that and the other, you're literally handing control of your life over to something or someone else that isn't you.

• 39:45Speaker 04

  Out of your control.

• 39:46Chris Williamson?

  It is.

• 39:47Speaker 04

  There was a, there was a, on that, there was some type of diagram a few years ago that I seen in terms of, like, you're saying the traffic, you know, you, all these little things that annoy you, i- is, is that, is, it's like a bucket type thing? And, you know, if you get up in the morning and, and you stand on something, you're like, fuck. Bucket goes up, yeah, exactly, and it goes up. Then you go and look for your toothbrush, you can't find it, you get even more annoyed, the bucket goes higher. You know, then you can't find your car keys, it goes higher. Then the smallest thing, like the light changes from amber to red just before you get there. Fuck, it's like now the bucket overflows, so it's instead of like, oh, instead of standing on that plug of like, right, okay, I've let, like, let go, it's gone. And then bring it back down. But that's what, that's what you're on about there, it's like little things annoy you, annoy you.

• 40:31Speaker 04

  And then you'll have this real big outburst maybe when you get to where you think, two minutes after you think, oh, fuck, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, and because it's all come from these little buildups that you've not let go of and you're still holding on to and getting really aggressive and really annoyed at. You know, but.

• 40:47Chris Williamson?

  The straw that broke the camel's back, right?

• 40:49Speaker 04

  But you can't, but we can't see that all because it's within the mind, it's, and it's that old saying of, you know, if, if I gave you a hot call in your hand, what would be the first thing you'd do? You'd leave, go over.

• 41:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 04

  You know, so if, if, if a thought's hurting you and bringing you pain, why are you still walking around with it like, oh, Chris, you do my head in you? So I'm gonna walk around all day. And like that, that's, that's just painful, you know, so like, all right, Chris is me, and so let go.

• 41:16Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Speaker 04

  Gone. And it's like, if people can visually see that, which is what I'm learning and what I've learned, if you can visually see that, you'd let go of it straight away.

• 41:24Chris Williamson?

  They say anger is holding on to a hot call in the hopes of throwing it at somebody else.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah, so you're just walking around trying to look for someone else to, to let it out.

• 41:32Chris Williamson?

  Unload your, your anger.

• 41:34Speaker 04

  And then, and then after that becomes regret and everything else.

• 41:37Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, um, one of the things I wanted to move on to was talking about the platform that you've got and the other people have online and what they're using that for. So I mean, if you were to try and, wh- wh- how would you define the message that you want to try and get across to people?

• 41:55Speaker 04

  Um, the message to try to get across to people, like, there's a lot of opportunities out there to keep learning and progressing. Um, whatever field you're working in, whatever area you want to improve, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there. And that I'm still learning that, uh, and that's why I'm still progressing into that. Um, I'm just trying to give off. Not this luxury life that, don't get me wrong, a lot of people like it, is good to have, but you've got to try and. The, the journey I'm on is trying to find happiness from within, you know, and, and. I'm putting that back to people, what I'm learning, I'm wanting to put back to people. So yeah, it, it's a, it's a big journey, but that's one of the main reasons that I wanna use my social.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  Or my platform for all, I do get, I do understand, uh, there's a lot of big people out there that. You do have to use it for some type of income, you know, some work, you've got to do sponsored posts, I do get that and there will be time where I may have to do that. But the, the main reasons is obviously, I want to push out there that there is also faults, there's not always, you know. It's not always luxuries.

• 42:59Chris Williamson?

  What does, what does happiness mean to you then?

• 43:02Speaker 04

  Happiness means to me.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Um, helping others progress within the life, um, and finding more about themselves. I'd like to say, so I'm, I, like I said, I'm still learning that about myself, so I can't. You know, i- if, if my loved ones. Are happy around me, the people who I love, uh, are comfortable, happy and pain free. Um, I think, I think that, that is my overall aim. It, it's amazing to have all these luxuries and attachments that go with it. But I think that become, that comes because of society and what people are pushing on you and. He's got the latest trainers, I've got the, but. Would you really get them if it wasn't a trend, if it wasn't a fashion, etc, you know?

• 43:49Speaker 04

  It's, it's, it's finding somewhere else that makes you happy and not somewhere that's an attachment.

• 43:54Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I mean, the hedonic treadmill, there's a, a really interesting study that Yusuf cites all the time. Where he talks about people who become disabled and lose the use of their legs. And people who win the lottery and have like an un, essentially an unlimited amount of money. Their self-rated happiness after six months is the same. So they have this particular baseline of happiness at month zero, then this incident occurs and they split off. And then by the time you get back to six months, both of them have adapted. So I think people that presume that material goods. Will bring them happiness are chasing down a a a an endless treadmill that's not really actually got anything at the end of it.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Exactly, but like, I recently learnt that in one of my courses on my meditation, you know, attachments will eventually cause suffering and pain. You know, if you're relying on attachment for your happiness, you know, oh, I want the next big car. Okay, I've got that car. Oh, now I want another car. So you're like you're saying now you're forever chasing somewhere for your happiness. That's only giving you temporary happiness. And again, this is something I'm learning and wanting to progress in terms of trying to find happiness from within. So I'm just happy just sat here with you chatting. You know, and like, all I do, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like a nice car, I don't like nice clothes, because that's the industry that I'm in, you know, and that's the industry that sometimes I feel like I've got to be in.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  Um, to to to still have the connection to be able to still speak and pass the message, you've still got to come across cool and not crazy.

• 45:26Chris Williamson?

  If you were given, if you were given the choice, would you just be in a pair of elephant pants and barefoot?

• 45:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, I really would. If that, if that, if that was acceptable, but again, that's me, um, how can I say it? If that was acceptable in terms of, because if if if I'd just done that now, people would go, Leon's lost the plot. Literally, and no one would listen to me and what I'm trying to pass out and what I'm trying to say.

• 45:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Um, you know, so there's a lot of celebrities that's done it where people think, oh, he's gone crazy. But when you look like.

• 45:59Chris Williamson?

  Jim Carrey.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  There you go, perfect, that's what I was gonna say, Keanu Reeves.

• 46:03Chris Williamson?

  Jim Carrey's is just, just as mental.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, so, yeah, so these type of people where people go, oh, they've just lost the plot. And then actually, if you look into what they're trying to say and what they're trying to deliver.

• 46:12Chris Williamson?

  No, he's fucking enlightened.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, they've not lost the plot, but a lot of these people, like, oh, he's gone crazy. They've not, but that's what I'm saying, if me and you all of a sudden just.

• 46:21Chris Williamson?

  Barefoot, elephant pants.

• 46:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're two lads of fucking daft, you know.

• 46:26Chris Williamson?

  So I think you you've touched on something that's really interesting there, which is that.

• 46:32Chris Williamson?

  An easy criticism of what you've put across and what I what I put across as well is yeah, like, good one, mate. You talk about all of this mindfulness bollocks, but like, you know, you still drive around in a nice car and you still like, wear nice clothes and you you know, you still upload topless photos and stuff. You're not uploading a fo- a nice photo of a piece of tree bark or something like that. And I think the point that is, the dual edged sword of this is that you still need to play the game. We have to play the game. And as you've said, the particular rules-

• 47:07Speaker 04

  It's that play the role that you're given type thing, and that, you know, you you need to, you can't just jump from one thing to another when people aren't ready.

• 47:16Chris Williamson?

  Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, you you need to capitalize on the effective strategies within the particular platform that you're trying to do. Like, it's it's all well and good, you being a fantastic footballer, but if you turn up to practise with a tennis racket, it doesn't matter, you're not, you're no longer playing the game. And Instagram has, the social media platform in general, it has a a set of rules. But I I think that one thing that is very positive is the fact that you're able to try and put across an image which is still within that, but on the other side, a message which is maybe trying to progress people's minds a little bit more. You know, in in 10 years' time, if you go full Jim Carrey and you've got a beard and you've got the string-

• 47:57Speaker 04

  Then you know why. It's been a journey.

• 48:00Chris Williamson?

  It's just a fucking long game. I just needed to bring you with me.

• 48:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. It hasn't just been like, bum. You know, it it it's like a progression thing where you can see, maybe, yeah, he's getting, he's getting more crazy and crazy.

• 48:11Chris Williamson?

  More more ridiculous. I'll go with him. I'll see what he does.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  And that is why I'm, that's perfect with what you're saying. You've got to play the game until, you know, you you've got to slowly give the, give people what I'm learning, which are obviously the people who I'm learning off. That's what I'm feeling off them. Because if I just turned up with a Buddhist monk one day, my mate would be like, are you taking a piss? You know, because at the end of the day, I'm still a lad. I've still, I still have a laugh. I still piss about. I still have a drink. I still do all the lad things. But in my spare time, I'm still wanting to learn about myself, you know, with inside myself.

• 48:42Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I think it's something that I often get conflicted about, which is that- There's certain elements of the game that needs to be played with, whether it be to do with club promo or, you know, for me particularly, one of them is the fact that I need to use my phone and I need to continue to use the Instagram platform and my other socials to grow my exposure, which enables me to put things that I genuinely value, like this podcast and other projects that I've got coming up across.

• 49:13Chris Williamson?

  Having to do that whilst not actually believing in the platform itself, like, you know, if I was able to do it in another way, like if I was able to, if I was able to grow my exposure through meditation hours, fuck, like, meet me on the cushion, do you know what I mean? So, but it's, it's difficult. Do you ever get conflicted with that, with having to do the Instagram thing whilst you?

• 49:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, like, like, like you just touched upon that, I'd love to, you know, go to a meditation class and, and, and, you know, video or take pictures of the meditation.

• 49:46Chris Williamson?

  And that be the content?

• 49:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, which, which is what I, the way I try to break it up is my stories for that and my main pages are for more of a, of a message, more of a, you know, like, like my projects in terms of like my books, my, my six weeks that I've just put on, that's what I'm wanting to do to help people. So everything that I'm learning, I'm wanting to help in that way. So I still need to, I need to prac, I need to, you know, practise what I preach type thing. There's no point me saying I lean three, six, five and me being fat three, six, five, you know, these type of things.

• 50:19Chris Williamson?

  Dad bod three, six, five.

• 50:20Speaker 04

  Exactly. So I need to, I, it's not, that's the message I'm trying to put across on my page. But with that, with me working with my physique, I'm also trying to show within the captions, the, the mind type of things, because I can't exactly show my mind on a picture, but I try to show what my mind's saying or what my mind's learnt.

• 50:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 04

  But the image of the picture is, is the physique, what people want to see or what they want to, what, what I assume they want to see, maybe they want to see differently.

• 50:45Chris Williamson?

  Maybe dad bod's coming back then.

• 50:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe, maybe it will be. We'll, we'll, we'll do Balkan season.

• 50:49Chris Williamson?

  If we come back in, if we come back in 12 months' time and dad bod's ready.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  We'll do a dad bod on the set, eh?

• 50:53Chris Williamson?

  Fine, that would, that would be great.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  Summer dad bod, eh?

• 50:56Chris Williamson?

  Loll around.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  Or we could just, yeah, a few burgers there then.

• 50:59Chris Williamson?

  I mean, that would be great. I, I hate having to be in a fucking deficit. Um, but yeah, like, I, I think you, you're right. And for people out there who are maybe thinking that, um.

• 51:13Chris Williamson?

  It's quite easy to see the lifestyles and stuff that get put across on Instagram and take them at face value. But we've got somebody here, two people sat on the same couch. Who are both saying that the images that we put across are us playing the game. And still something we're proud about, you know, there's photo shoots that I'm sure that you love and there's ones that I love as well. And, you know, I think, fuck, I really, really like that photo of me. I think that photo is awesome, but it's not me. That's not, that's not the essence of who I am. And I don't think it's necessarily the essence of who you are either. It's like, look, like.

• 51:47Chris Williamson?

  If there is someone that you really, really idolise, think about the message that they're putting across and be maybe a little bit more critical about. How high of a pedestal should I put this person on? Like, is it just the fact that they're good looking or have they actually got values that I care about? Have they actually got a level of integrity that I would want for myself? And an easy litmus test, the canary in the coalmine for this is, do you genuinely, genuinely think that that person's happy? Like, because for the most, I know, you know, both you and me will know shitloads of people that work a lot on. Instagram and have a big following and this, that and the other, and they're fucking miserable.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's why I'm saying, that's why I preach, you put the meditation, put the learn and put the read and. Put it into practice, because there has been times and there still is times. When I'm, I'm unhappy, I still get thoughts and feelings where I'm sad and I'm, I'm, I'm upset and, you know, but. These thoughts, these feelings, these moments have become easier for me, become. Less of a problem for me, you know, I still get them and I will always get them until I get further, maybe, maybe they might go, maybe they won't. But, you know, as people, it was constantly still going on about maybe not going on, but. Still having these problems and still suffering these thoughts and feelings, but they're doing nothing about it.

• 53:03Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  Um.

• 53:04Chris Williamson?

  Oh, even doubling down on covering them up.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh, yeah, or trying to hide them, trying to run for them, trying to. Pretend that they're happy with the latest car, the latest clothing, like. Yes, that does make you happy. It makes me happy. It would make you happy if you went and bought like a brand new pair of trainers. It does us all, but. Maybe for a short space of time. It's not wrong. We're still doing that, but also working on yourself from within, you know. But is it like the meshes I try to put across it? If you try to combine them both, well, even all three, you know, your lifestyle you live. Um, your mindfulness from within and the look on the outside in terms of your fitness, whatever that if you can combine all them three. Then you will start to find some like me, some middle ground of happiness and then that's some that I'm searching for and still looking at every day.

• 53:49Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, that's awesome, man. So before we finish up, are there any. Resources or books that you would recommend to people, any websites or blogs that you often visit?

• 53:58Speaker 04

  Um, well, there's an app, obviously the car map that we spoke about. I've got a, as a reading app that I always use. Called Medium, if you've heard of that.

• 54:07Chris Williamson?

  Medium's fantastic.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, so again, any, any topic that you're interested in, just download the app Medium, search the topic. Brings anything up, um, and just have a read on it, you know, and they're only like ten, five minutes, fifteen minutes. Little articles that you can read and find some really useful information. There's car, you get a seven days. Um, trial, so you can do it seven days. If you don't feel anything from it, you don't. If you do, you can get the app for a bit longer. Um, motivation manifesto is one of the best books I read. Uh, maybe try and find in one of your local Buddhist centres. Um, give it a go, see how you feel. Again, it's putting these things into practice, like.

• 54:49Speaker 04

  I'll be the first to say I wasn't the best reader at school and I'm still not now, you know, like, which is why I'll only read for fifteen, twenty minutes, max half an hour. I'm not one of these who can sit and read for two, three hours.

• 55:00Chris Williamson?

  Have to work out in a day, yeah.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  Cause I, I, my head just goes all over and I'm thinking of this, thinking of that, but it's getting better, you know, and, and. A lot of my mates and even my family are like, what, you read now? Like, it was probably the last thing I'd ever think of, you know, when I was back at school, even in college, when I played football for Middlesbrough. Because I just didn't get it, but now I get it. I get what they're doing, they're working on. It doesn't even have to be working. It might be just a really nice story that you're like.

• 55:25Chris Williamson?

  Good fiction.

• 55:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, you you you're just getting lost. Like, it's just, sometimes in a book, you're just like, you know, it's like, wow, wow. You you just get lost of what's actually out there, you know, and and disengage from everything else. And it it's relaxing and it's peaceful. So, yeah, read the reading as, um.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  Harley Performance Habits, is it Brendan Butchers? High High Performance Habits, that's one. That's a really good book in terms of business and applying. Maybe what goals you've got, maybe what ambitions you've got. And getting the best out of yourself, getting the best out of your team, what's around you, the resources. And so that book was good for that. Um. So, yeah, that that's a few things that I would.

• 56:06Chris Williamson?

  I'm a massive fan of Medium. Um. We spoke about it on a Life, a previous Life Hacks episode. But it's just like the best curated news site that you've ever heard of. So imagine the top filtering of every blog on the planet. Um. And it's submitted. The app's beautiful. It remembers your place. You can, um, you get suggestions sent to you. It's like if Facebook was meant for learning shit.

• 56:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:29Chris Williamson?

  Like, and every, it's like, oh, you recently read something about, um, cryptocurrency. So here's something else that kind of is associated with that and it's learns of a time. I I absolutely love it. I'm a massive, massive fan.

• 56:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:41Chris Williamson?

  Um. So Leon, where can the listeners find you online?

• 56:45Speaker 04

  Um. You can find me on my Instagram, Leon Free Scott, or you can find me on my website. It's just Leon dash Scott dot com.

• 56:53Chris Williamson?

  Fantastic.

• 56:53Speaker 04

  And if there's anything you want to ask me, uh, just drop it in my comments on the right, just, uh, let us picture or DM me. If there's anything that I'm up with, I'll find the time and I'll get back to you.

• 57:03Chris Williamson?

  Man, it's been a pleasure.

• 57:04Speaker 04

  Thank you very much. Travel me now. Thank you.

• 57:06Chris Williamson?

  Thank you.

• 57:07Speaker 04

  Next time.

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