Pod Insights The School of Greatness How to Find Success by Embracing Change, Accepting Grief & Investing in Yourself w/ Jenna Kutcher EP 1271 About this episode Jenna Kutcher is a born-and-raised Minnesota wife, mother, and entrepreneur who aims for two things daily: helping others wake up to life and staying in comfy pants. Creator and host of the top-rated Goal Digger Podcast, she’s helped thousands redefine success and chase bold dreams through her decade-long work as a leading online personality and educator. Check out Jenna's new book "How are you, really?". In this episode you will learn:Why you should always invest in yourself. What success should feel like. Why you shouldn’t be afraid of changing. How to move with your grief. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1271Lisa Bilyeu on Overcoming Failure: EP 1265Tamera Mowry on Reinventing Yourself: EP 1189Evy Poumpouras on Mastering Relationships: EP 1270 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript 15,345 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Sometimes I think that people get really lost because they're like, "Well, yeah, if I knew what my passion was, I could go figure out a way to make money, but I don't even know what my passion is, right?" And sometimes I think knowing what you don't want is just as important as knowing what you do want.
0:17 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:42 Lewis Howes? You were a full-time wedding photographer, still, I think. And you were just kind of getting into, you know, teaching a little bit and coaching and things like that. And I think maybe you created one course or something at the time. And now it's been an amazing evolution of six years of building a massive podcast, courses, you did events for a while. But just being a nomad entrepreneur, you travel the world, you live in different locations, you're a mom, and you're able to build a business that is designed around a lifestyle, which is what I've always talked about and tried to live by my life. It's like, how do I live my life and then build a business around that, not where I'm trapped by it?
1:24 Lewis Howes? And that's something you've like stood by since day one. So it's really inspiring. And I remember, yeah, when you were in the mastermind, I was just like, Jenna, get this. I was like, you got it. And you were just like, okay, yes, I'm gonna do this and execute and then just get results. That's been your journey.
1:40 Speaker 00 You know, it's crazy getting ready this morning because I was just like, I really am awake to life in that like, this is a pinch me moment. And I don't, I don't miss that. I don't miss that in even the mundane everyday life with my kids. Like, I just am awake to like, wow. And it was crazy because I was just thinking about my journey with you. And I remember your email coming through announcing the mastermind. I remember jumping on it. I mean, I filled out that form faster than you can imagine. But I also feel like, you know, there's times in your life where there's like this line in the sand, where there is a very clear before and after, right? Like where you see a massive transformation.
2:25 Speaker 00 And joining your mastermind was the first time I really invested in myself in a big way. It was so scary. I remember writing the check and I couldn't even tell Drew, my husband, the amount because when you bet on yourself, it's like, I better prove myself right, right? Like you're like, I better make this a worthy investment and holy cow. But it is so cool to be with you here in this setting. Think of like how far we've come and like even just our relationship too, over the time. It's like, we've done a lot of life together, which is pretty cool.
2:59 Lewis Howes? A lot of trips and masterminds and
3:01 Speaker 00 It's cool.
3:02 Lewis Howes? ups and downs and everything in between. And it's, it's so fun to watch your journey because I remember just thinking like, oh, just if you just keep being consistent, like great things are gonna happen. And they've been happening. You've got a book out now. How are you really? Your podcast, again, all your courses, everything is just all very inspiring. I'm curious, what was the kind of a pivotal moment after the mastermind where you realized things can take off financially and in business? And you don't have to overextend yourself? Because there was probably times where you maybe overextended for a while.
3:37 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
3:37 Lewis Howes? But when did you realize you could do both?
3:39 Speaker 00 Yeah. Okay. So there's actually a story in the book about your mastermind, which we'll talk about, but it was kind of crazy because being in the mastermind for me, as someone from the Midwest who lives in small town Minnesota, I had literally never been in a room with people who could say like, I desire wealth, or I desire freedom, or I desire flexibility. Like it was so crazy for me to be around people who were unapologetic about their pursuit, whatever their pursuit looked like, whether it's financial or lifestyle or flexibility. And it was the first time that I was like around people where they were just like, here's what I'm going after. And I was like, whoa, like even to speak those types of things, especially in the Midwest, you know?
4:23 Lewis Howes? Sure.
4:24 Speaker 00 It's like people think you are crazy.
4:26 Lewis Howes? You didn't talk about money or how much you wanted to make or
4:29 Speaker 00 None of that.
4:29 Lewis Howes? how much you were making and those things, yeah.
4:32 Speaker 00 So it really opened my eyes to like this new world because I, I feel like before joining your mastermind, it was, I was so lonely in the pursuit. And I also felt like, am I greedy? Or why do I want these things? Or, you know, am I hitting my own ceiling, like my own glass ceiling? And when I was in your mastermind, I was in the heart of a really big pivot because I was a wedding photographer. I had experienced my first loss of pregnancy. So I remember at the first mastermind, you had us get up front and just say who you are and one thing you were working on. And I remember I like got up and I'm not a nervous person, like I can speak wherever.
5:15 Speaker 00 And like something overcame me where I decided to share about that loss. And um, and I was just like, you know, I'm really like, I really wanna be a mom and like this isn't happening right now. And you had everyone in the mastermind, right on a slip of paper, like if they could help you with whatever that goal was, just write your name and phone number down.
5:36 Lewis Howes? And pass like how they could help or something, right, yeah.
5:39 Speaker 00 And um, Dr. Lauren Noel was in the mastermind and she had written on a piece of paper and it said, I will help you with your fertility.
5:47 Lewis Howes? She's a fertility expert, yeah.
5:49 Speaker 00 Yes, and I, I remember getting that piece of paper and thinking, I don't need help, my loss was a fluke. That's really, really sweet, but whatever. But for some reason I held on to that paper. And in the course of the following year, we ended up experiencing our second loss. And I found that slip of paper, literally days after our second loss, it said, I will help you with your fertility with a phone number. And there's a story in the book about like how I joined a mastermind, thinking like, this is gonna explode my business and all of these things.
6:25 Speaker 00 And really it exploded my life. So to get back to your question of, you know, when, when have there been seasons where you've overextended yourself or gone, gone in the opposite direction? I think a lot of us achievers are prone to do that. It's, it's like this cycle, but. I've recognized time and time again that like success shouldn't look a certain way. It should feel a certain way. And when I stay in alignment with how it should feel, I am so much more at peace and not like in the pursuit of like this frantic pace.
6:56 Lewis Howes? What should it feel like?
6:57 Speaker 00 For me, it feels like peace and it feels like no urgency. Like when you say no stress, you mean it. You know what I mean?
7:05 Lewis Howes? Sure.
7:06 Speaker 00 Uh, my team and I, we, we have this thing where it's like, we literally start every message with like, this isn't urgent, but here's what we need. Because it's like this reminder.
7:16 Lewis Howes? Like, can you get it done?
7:17 Speaker 00 Well, but it's like, really, it's like, uh, like, uh, don't worry. But like if you're in your life, be in your life. But like when you come back on, this is what I'm waiting for, but it's like.
7:26 Lewis Howes? Right. We don't need this right now. Don't stop your, whatever you're doing. But get back when you're back in the work mode. Interesting. That's cool.
7:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
7:33 Lewis Howes? I like that.
7:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's been interesting, but it's, you know, it's just crazy to think about. We often say like in, in the business world too, it's like, sell people what they think they want, but serve them what they need. And when I look at like my experience and, and specifically my experience with you, it was like, you know, I joined the mastermind for this one thing, but I ended up like, then ended up working with Dr. Noel. She helped me and I really truly attribute a lot of my ability to like, carry a successful pregnancy to my work with her. Which is kind of crazy. And I met her through you.
8:05 Lewis Howes? That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm sure you would have met someone eventually like that, but I'm glad that they brought you.
8:09 Speaker 00 You take credit. You were like the godfather of this.
8:12 Lewis Howes? I'm the reason we have a child. Yeah, no. No, I think, uh, you know, people, you, you, you attract the things you need. You're looking for things you need and people will find their way to you. That's really beautiful. Um, then why, you, you also said back then that you would never do a book.
8:27 Speaker 00 Yes.
8:28 Lewis Howes? You were like, I'm never doing a book. So why did you decide you wanted to do a book?
8:32 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:32 Lewis Howes? And what's the, what's the messaging intention behind it?
8:35 Speaker 00 Yeah. So I, I remember because you were launching.
8:38 Lewis Howes? And I was like, it's exhausting.
8:39 Speaker 00 Second book, The Mask of Masculinity. And it was coming out and it was basically kind of launched right around your event, right? Yeah, we got our first copy then. Yep. And I remember we each got one question, uh, to ask. And I remember looking at you and be like, why would anyone do a book? So I remember being, I don't understand it.
9:03 Speaker 00 And I said for many years, I will never do this. I'll never write a book. And we were in a season with our family, so we now had our first daughter Coco. I was gonna get pregnant with my second child, hopefully. And I, it's a long story and it's a part of my book in the epilogue, but um, it was in the middle of the pandemic and it was when things were like slightly creeping open again. And it was mine and Drew's ten year anniversary. And I was like, we can't really like go out to a fancy dinner or whatever, but I booked us massages. And it was in northern Minnesota, a town of twelve hundred people. There's this place called Loot Zen.
9:43 Speaker 00 And I booked us massages and I go in for my massage and the woman there, her name is Thea. And she's like, I'm a medical medium. And I was like, hmm, interesting. I don't know what that means, but cool. Let's go get the rub down. So I go down, get my massage, have my mask on my face. And after the massage, she goes, can I tell you what came up for you today? And here, I'm just booking like a sixty minute massage. I'm like, sure, I'm very open minded. What came up? And she goes, there's something you need to do and you know you need to do it, but you're avoiding it. You're turning your hips away from it. And when you were laying on the table, I just wanted to hold your hips down and say, follow the path. You know what you need to do.
10:27 Speaker 00 She didn't say like, you need to write a book, but you know what? I knew right away.
10:31 Lewis Howes? Really?
10:31 Speaker 00 I, with utter clarity, I, she goes, do you know what I'm talking about? And I go, mhm. And I come home from that massage and I have like the ring of the table on my eyes. And Drew's like, how was your massage? And I was like, I'm writing a book. And it's really wild because people have described the process to me at times and they're like, once you know, like you, it just pours out of you. And I'm like, that is bogus. Like, writing a book is a lot of work. And what's crazy is that exact night, because you know I execute really well.
11:02 Lewis Howes? Fast and fast, yes.
11:03 Speaker 00 I open up a Google Doc and I start.
11:06 Lewis Howes? Probably wrote the first half of the book in a night.
11:07 Speaker 00 It was crazy.
11:08 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
11:09 Speaker 00 And it was funny. So I intentionally did everything in the book process backwards on purpose. So for me, the times in my life where I've grown or evolved have been when I've allowed myself to be really creative. And whenever money or a paycheck or a deadline gets involved, my creativity is stripped. And so I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it my way. So I wrote the book without telling a soul, without a book deal, without an agent, with no commitment or deadline or paycheck. So I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I want to make sure that I'm doing it for the right reason. And I want it to matter to me first, because have you ever had someone, has this happened to you?
11:51 Speaker 00 Where I've been approached by people and they're like, this is what your book is about. And I'm like, no, or like, I can't wait to read a book about this from you. And it's like, that's not what I want to write about. So I wrote the entire book. I gave myself a deadline, December 31st. So I started it at the end of August, December 31st, finished it December 31st. And then I went through the process after that. And it was really cool because I did what I wanted to do without any feedback, without announcing it to the world.
12:25 Lewis Howes? Right.
12:25 Speaker 00 Nobody knew about it, not even my family. Like, I just really kept it close to my heart because for so long I said, I'm not gonna do it. So then I was like, if I start telling people, then I'm gonna feel commitment that I have to do it. And maybe it's not the right time or the right thing, but it turns out it was.
12:39 Lewis Howes? And what does it end up being about then?
12:41 Speaker 00 Yeah. So what's crazy and a good lesson for all of us is I wrote a business book at first. Now, my book, How Are You, really is not a business book. But I thought, you know, I run the Gold Digger podcast. I'm the marketing person. I love all that stuff. But I do business and marketing so that I can live life in a way that other people can't. And in the marketing business book that I wrote, there were a lot of stories that were way deeper than just strategies. And so when I finally got my book agent and she read through the whole thing and she pulled out chapters for my proposal, because she had the entire manuscript. The proposal was not a business book.
13:27 Speaker 00 So when I did all my editors calls and stuff, they were like, you know, this is great, but like, we're not talking about branding, we're not like, you, like, this is a book that we need and we're in nine to fives. And so it really expanded it. And for me too, it was like, where do I want to see it on the shelves at Barnes and Noble? Like, where do I envision it? And it wasn't in the business category. So, it was beautiful because like as a former photographer, it almost felt like I was like widening the lens. Like I was zoomed in and I needed to like back off. But it also meant a lot more work.
13:58 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
13:59 Speaker 00 You know, so we scrapped a good chunk of what I wrote and maybe someday I'll write a business book, but um, I'm so proud of what it is. So, naming a book is really hard. You and I were actually just talking about that and um, I, I hate naming things. Like, my first course was the Jenna Kutcher course because I literally couldn't think of a name. And so we had all these different working titles throughout the process and uh, it was ten days before I gave birth to my second child. And we were like, we need a name. And I kept voice texting people, asking advice and in the voice messages I would say, you know those conversations where you're like, how are you? Oh, good, great, busy, fine.
14:39 Speaker 00 And then you feel safe enough and invited to like lean in and be like, but how are you really? And someone was like, why don't you just call it that? And I was like, really?
14:52 Speaker 00 And it became that.
14:53 Lewis Howes? There you go.
14:54 Speaker 00 In a while.
14:56 Lewis Howes? It's beautiful. The whole process is beautiful, I think, of coming up with an idea, launching it, making it a name. But a lot of people are afraid of putting something out there. Were you afraid to create it? Or were you afraid beforehand that you just never wanted to do the work?
15:11 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:11 Lewis Howes? Of it?
15:13 Lewis Howes? Or why do you think a lot of people are afraid to put something out there?
15:17 Speaker 00 Yeah. I was never afraid of the work, but to me, it never made sense in my life because I remember telling you this and being like, why would you spend two years on a project? That doesn't necessarily provide a really bountiful paycheck? When you could spend like two months building a course, launching it, getting it out into the world and like reaping the rewards and I really genuinely feel like there is a tipping point in our lives where there are seasons where it's like you will hustle and trade your time for money? And then there becomes this time where all of a sudden, time is more valuable. Like you will trade money to claim back your time. You've talked about that a lot. And so it became this thing where it was like, it has nothing to do with the money. I mean, I wrote the whole thing without a penny promised.
16:01 Speaker 00 And so I was never afraid of the work, but it's fascinating because I really kept it close to my heart. Like I didn't let people read it. I didn't want opinions. And so even my own husband texted me the other night because he has a copy and he's reading it and it feels so vulnerable.
16:19 Lewis Howes? Cause you don't know what they're think- thinking or feeling or yes, what are they gonna say?
16:23 Speaker 00 Yes, and like, or what's gonna impact them or like, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day and it's like you and I have lived many shared experiences together. But like we could be in the same hour segment, sitting side by side and our takeaways could be totally different.
16:37 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
16:38 Speaker 00 And when you're putting out these stories and like being vulnerable and like sharing different things, it's like, whoo, like it, it feels like a piece of your heart. And one of the biggest lessons I've learned in this process is like, my book is a piece of my life's work, but it's not the only thing.
16:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
16:57 Speaker 00 You know, it's like just a piece of it. And so it's like a very important piece to me. But like, there's a lot more beyond it.
17:05 Lewis Howes? What do you feel like has been the biggest challenge for you in the last couple of years then?
17:09 Speaker 00 Ah.
17:09 Lewis Howes? The face.
17:10 Speaker 00 Yeah, so I feel like when people ask me like, how are you really? It's like. I I'm experiencing the fullness of life and I mean that in a way of like, I want it all.
17:23 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
17:24 Speaker 00 And I've had to define what it all looks like. And I want to be a present, hands-on mom. And I also wanna have a great career. In like the dichotomy of like chasing both of those things simultaneously. Coupled with things like mom guilt and all of that, it's like. You're constantly questioning like, am I in the right place?
17:46 Lewis Howes? Hmm, you mean if you're being present with your?
17:49 Speaker 00 If I'm working, I'm thinking about my kids. If I'm with my kids, I'm thinking about work.
17:53 Lewis Howes? Really?
17:54 Speaker 00 Always.
17:55 Lewis Howes? How do you shift to just being present to one or the other?
17:59 Speaker 00 I have to literally like ground myself. Like I have started this practice. And I I do it all the time now, but like when I enter the threshold of a room. I have to consciously. Be like, I am all here right now. Because it's easy, like, here's a story. So I read a lot of books to my three-year-old. I mean, she is, she loves reading. There will be times when I'm literally reading a book. But I'm like thinking about like, I need to do this for work. I need to do this. And one day we were reading a Dr. Seuss book. And uh, there's a line where it's like, um. The curtain in the Jordan, like, you know, they have weird rhymes and Coco goes, what's a Jordan? And I was like, what? And she's like, what's a Jordan?
18:43 Speaker 00 And I had read this book hundreds of times to her. And yet I wasn't like there, like, do you know what I mean? Like, she's in my lap, I'm reading the pages and yet. I'm just in autopilot because I'm thinking about other things. There was like this massive wake-up call of like, you want it all. But like you could miss it all so easily if you're not where you are. And so it was really funny because she's like, what's a Jordan? And I was like. Oh, my God, like I am reading this book and I've read it so many times and I don't even remember this page. Because I haven't been like fully there.
19:18 Lewis Howes? Sure.
19:18 Speaker 00 So I've really had to work really hard because my brain is such a, I mean, our brains are so powerful, but they're always spinning, right?
19:24 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:24 Speaker 00 And it really takes me just as much focus to like calm my brain as it does for me to like speed it up.
19:32 Lewis Howes? Where do you feel like in your life you need the most support?
19:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, asking for help is the worst, right?
19:41 Speaker 00 I have a chapter in the book about like, like I had pride's utter chokehold of like, I wanna do it all and be it all and all these things and you know, my husband desire deeply desired to be a stay at home dad and in our struggle to grow our family, I felt like such a failure because he had this vision of like being a stay at home dad and like here I can't carry a pregnancy all the way through. And it felt like I was like dropping the baton because he had supported my entrepreneurial dreams and now I'm like the one that's like not allowing him to live his dream. And it's crazy cuz like him and I like we just have to be a team. Uh, and so asking for help in that way is like massive and and keeping really open communication because
20:26 Speaker 00 like I am so driven, but I'm also so grounded and and trying to like live into both of those things requires someone keeping you in check, right?
20:36 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
20:36 Speaker 00 Like, hey, set the phone down, close the laptop, like, you know.
20:42 Speaker 00 But asking for help too. In the chapter in my book, it was talking about how for years as an entrepreneur, I wanted to just do everything and I thought no one can possibly love this the way I do. No one can possibly do anything the way I do. And how many of us have felt that way?
20:59 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
20:59 Speaker 00 And in that chapter, this girl named Caitlin had reached out to me two different times and she supported wedding photographers. And she had reached out and was like, I live in your area, I love your work, I'd love to support you. And basically I said, thanks, but no thanks both times and she reached out a third time and it was on the day, the exact day that we had lost our second pregnancy. And it said, just checking in, I know you said you're good, but and she had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. And finally, for like the first time in my life, I like literally said like, I need help.
21:33 Lewis Howes? Wow.
21:33 Speaker 00 Because I was like in the fetal position and I had built a business that literally required me to show up or I didn't get paid. And it was like this huge realization of like, yeah, I built a successful business, but if I am not upright and showing up, I'm not. It's not a business. Yeah.
21:50 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you're not earning anything.
21:51 Speaker 00 And so the chapter in the book is like how when we accept help and when we like learn how to ask for it. We are so enriched and there are so many people in our lives that like they love just being the helper. And when I say just being helper, I mean like being the helper is transforming lives.
22:10 Lewis Howes? Yes.
22:10 Speaker 00 And it's really interesting because I feel like I've discovered that. In business, and this goes for you as well, is like there are very few things that only Lewis can do.
22:18 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
22:19 Speaker 00 You have to be the face and the voice and the vision, right? You are the visionary, but your team are like the missionaries, like they are the ground workers.
22:28 Lewis Howes? Right.
22:29 Speaker 00 The copywriters, the people helping spread the mission.
22:32 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
22:33 Speaker 00 And so. For me, it felt like I was white knuckling things and when I finally released, it like opened my hands to what's possible.
22:42 Lewis Howes? What was possible?
22:44 Speaker 00 Building a massive business and having support and creating systems and inviting people in to do work that they're passionate about that I don't wanna do. It's like the whole thing. It's like, yes, I could create the graphic, write the caption, like, but should I be doing that?
23:00 Lewis Howes? Right.
23:01 Speaker 00 And those shoulds have gotten real small over the years.
23:03 Lewis Howes? Cause you were so talented. I mean, you were and are so talented at doing so many of the creative and writing.
23:09 Speaker 00 I love the creative stuff.
23:10 Lewis Howes? Marketing and social and everything else, the strategy that you could do it all essentially.
23:14 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:15 Lewis Howes? To a high level, you know, and so letting go of something that you do really well, that you know you love and like and. Comes out the way you like it.
23:23 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:24 Lewis Howes? Without having to tell anyone how to do it or teaching people, it's hard to let go of.
23:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:28 Lewis Howes? It's almost like when you're really good at a lot of things.
23:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:31 Lewis Howes? It's harder for you.
23:32 Speaker 00 It's like a platter. It's like when you go to Old Country Buffet and all the food's spread out and you're like, how do I decide what I want? Feels like that sometimes.
23:40 Lewis Howes? Yeah, but when you start out, you have to learn everything if you don't have the resources. So it's kind of like. A good thing, but then you have to learn how to let it all go quickly.
23:48 Speaker 00 Absolutely, absolutely.
23:50 Lewis Howes? Speaking of letting go, this is an interesting topic, I think. A lot of women would love to learn the answer to, or the solution to.
23:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:59 Lewis Howes? You and your husband Drew, who's like one of the nicest guys, I love hanging out with this guy.
24:04 Speaker 00 He's awesome.
24:05 Lewis Howes? You decided you wanted to be building the business and he's going to be a stay-at-home dad essentially, right? And support you in other ways of the business as well, but mostly stay-at-home dad.
24:15 Lewis Howes? How can women learn to navigate that if they want to be the driven entrepreneur?
24:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:22 Lewis Howes? Can you be a driven entrepreneur woman?
24:25 Speaker 00 Yep.
24:26 Lewis Howes? Find a husband who's also driven entrepreneur, or does one of you need to have some less drive on their career and business to be able to support if you're trying to have kids? What's worked for you, what doesn't work?
24:39 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:40 Lewis Howes? What would you do differently if you started this over again?
24:43 Speaker 00 Yeah. I honestly wouldn't do anything differently, and I think what is fascinating about this is like, especially in the Midwest, it is still very traditional.
24:53 Lewis Howes? Yes.
24:53 Speaker 00 I cannot tell you the amount of times.
24:56 Lewis Howes? Probably the coast also, but yeah.
24:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, but no, I cannot tell you the amount of times that we'll mention something about our lifestyle and the person will look at Drew and say, "What do you do?" And then he'll say, "Oh, I stay home with my daughters." And then they'll look over at me and be like, "Well, what do you do?" And we always have this joke because it's just like, still, it's so inbred in our society of like, clearly the man must have a really successful career, and I get it, I mean, I've made assumptions as well. What's really fascinating to me is that we've been married 11 years, we've been together since 2008, and we are very different people than we were when we got married. Very different.
25:42 Speaker 00 I mean, you wouldn't recognize that version of me, and... It's beautiful because I think we are so resistant to change and we are so afraid to contradict ourselves.
25:52 Lewis Howes? Cause you probably never thought you'd have a business or be an entrepreneur.
25:55 Speaker 00 Never.
25:56 Lewis Howes? Right.
25:57 Speaker 00 Never thought I would do.
25:58 Lewis Howes? Back in 2008, yeah.
25:59 Speaker 00 Any of these things. Like I wanted a corporate office and a power suit and high heels. I, the visions I held had zero chance of entrepreneurship in them. And.
26:10 Lewis Howes? And what did, what did he wanna do? What was his vision?
26:13 Speaker 00 He, Drew has done so many things. He could sell ice to an Eskimo. He did cellphone sales, billboard sales, insurance sales. I mean, he's sold pretty much, you name it, he's sold it. But he never felt fulfilled. He was like always on this quest of fulfillment. And it all, and I always just like encouraged it cause I wanted him to be happy. And his final job before he retired to be a stay-at-home dad was in wine sales. But really, he was just like a glorified stockist. And in my book, I tell a story about like how when I lost that second pregnancy, like not only did I feel the grief of the loss, but I, I felt like I was holding him back from this vision, this dream that he had.
26:54 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
26:55 Speaker 00 And he could have groveled and grumbled his way through and he just went out and stocked that wine in that season. And I think a lot of times people are sitting in these waiting seasons and they're just wasting them. They're angry, they're mad at like, things aren't happening for them. And I like look at him with such admiration of like, he had this bigger vision for his life, but it wasn't happening. It took three years for him to actually be a stay-at-home dad. And he still, he worked so hard and like he never complained. So I'm like, great, great reminder for people. I mean, it's the great resignation right now. One in three people are looking for a new job or quitting their job. That's massive. But like, while I admire that, I'm also like, are we giving up too soon?
27:37 Speaker 00 Or are we just angry because things aren't happening? Like, can we still do the thing while we figure out the next idea? I don't know. I just challenge people in that. But back to your question about like the relationship and stuff. Something about Drew that used to drive me crazy that I now very much admire is his contentedness, like he is so
27:57 Lewis Howes? Cause you're driven.
27:58 Speaker 00 I am driven and ambitious and I sometimes want more and I, you know, I wanna go after these things and he has this beautiful, like this guy would just be so happy to get in a workout, mow the lawn and give the kids a bath. Like, like he truly is just like grounded in that contentedness. And to me, that looks like complacency before.
28:20 Lewis Howes? So, so that's why it drove you crazy?
28:21 Speaker 00 Drove me nuts. Cause I was like, don't you want more?
28:24 Lewis Howes? So how long did it drive you crazy for?
28:25 Speaker 00 I mean, when I say it drove me crazy, I just didn't understand it. Like I was just like
28:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you're not screaming or
28:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, like, but, but yeah, it's like, it's like, what do you want for your life? And like, he was just so happy. And to me, I feared of like, oh, like, are you just not driven? Or like, what is this? And now I'm like, whoa, what a valuable balance for someone like me to be reminded of like, oh, this is enough.
28:54 Lewis Howes? What if he was extremely driven and he was like?
28:56 Speaker 00 I think we'd be battling each other for that.
28:58 Lewis Howes? If he was driven and he was like, I'm building this thing and I'm, I don't have the time to be at my home as much. I'm gonna be gone more. I'm gonna be back after seven every night.
29:06 Speaker 00 So hard for us.
29:07 Lewis Howes? How would you navigate that? And what advice would you give to women who are driven? Who have married into, to a driven partner?
29:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:15 Lewis Howes? Who's, doesn't wanna be a stay at home dad?
29:18 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:18 Lewis Howes? How would you navigate that as a mom?
29:21 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, so something crazy about us is like our, our oldest is three and a half and like, we've never had help with our children. We've just really, it's just been a personal choice of like, we're all in on parenthood.
29:33 Lewis Howes? Grandparents though?
29:35 Speaker 00 I mean, my mom is the only person that has really like watched her and it's not consistent. So it's like, we're just in it.
29:40 Lewis Howes? Right, right.
29:41 Speaker 00 Uh, we've just decided that
29:43 Lewis Howes? Is it like once a week, once every few weeks?
29:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, if we're lucky.
29:46 Lewis Howes? A half a day or a few hours?
29:47 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's like going on a day night. Uh, but we made that choice really like specifically for us because our values are just really like to cherish this time. This window of time where they're little is so small and these years are so important. And so if if he was, you know, driven or have this brilliant idea or had these things, you know, honestly, I would feel a responsibility to pass the baton to him because he has supported me in exceptional ways over the years, but I think I'd be reluctant to hand it over, right? I think it would be really hard.
30:27 Speaker 00 I really think that his role is often overlooked. And so for your listeners that are the stay at home parents or the people who are, you know, giving this season of life to be at home with their children or to help raise their children. It is the most overlooked and underappreciated job on planet earth. And it's crazy to me because what I do and and what you've watched me do over the last few years is literally only possible because of him and his support. Yeah, I mean, he cooks, he cleans, he does it all. And I
31:08 Lewis Howes? With a smile.
31:09 Speaker 00 With a smile and six pack abs, baby.
31:12 Lewis Howes? He's just a happy guy.
31:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, he really is. And so, yeah, if if both people are driven, I think that there has to be a season where there are handoffs. Like, I always just picture it as like a relay race where it's like I'm sprinting and you're waiting. And then you're sprinting and I'm waiting. And there has to be conversations and I think a lot of women have this deep desire for change or growth or evolution or trying something new, but they don't even know how to express it. They don't even know how to say the words like, like imagine you and I are together, which whatever. But like Louis, I know that I've been this way for you. I know I've supported you in this way for so long, but like I have to change. I'm gonna change and I'm inviting you to enter this change with me.
31:56 Lewis Howes? Right.
31:57 Speaker 00 It might be uncomfortable, we might have to figure it out, but like here's what I really wanna do. And I mean, if you're with a partner that loves you, I would sincerely hope that they support you.
32:08 Lewis Howes? Sure.
32:08 Speaker 00 But it's crazy. I do think that a lot of relationships benefit when it's like.
32:15 Speaker 00 One person's driven and the other one kind of brings him back home to earth. And I think there are seasons of trade off with that.
32:21 Lewis Howes? That's interesting. So when did the thing that drove you crazy about him?
32:26 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:26 Lewis Howes? Switch to being like, okay, it doesn't drive me as crazy. And now I'm actually really grateful and appreciative that you're in that energetic space.
32:35 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, even today, he's home with two kids, sending me updates of them going on walks with the wagon and things like that. And him just saying like, we're good and you're doing great and I love you. Like, that's massive to me because I already put enough pressure on myself. So if I was worried, like, I'm gonna go home to like a grumbling husband and my house is tore apart and my kids need a bath, like, that would be hard.
33:04 Speaker 00 It doesn't drive me nuts anymore because it's brought me like back to earth in a way of... This season that I'm in is, is busy, but it's not crazy. And it's a very thoughtfully busy, like, anything I'm doing in my life right now is by choice, not necessity. And I have learned and really like embrace this idea of like, I can pump the brakes on certain things that I know I could soar at, that I know I could crush it in. And I say that with just confidence. I think more women need to be confident. But I'm saying no to so many things because I trust that I can hit the brake and know where the gas pedal is. The gas pedal's not going anywhere. And so for the next few years,
33:49 Speaker 00 things are just gonna look a little different for us because I really wanna be with my kids.
33:53 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
33:53 Speaker 00 And so, a lot of people I think are lacking this belief in themselves of like, what's gotten me this far will carry me forward, but I don't need to believe the lie of like momentum and have that keep me on the hamster wheel. You know what I mean?
34:09 Lewis Howes? Sure. It's interesting because obviously I don't know what it's like to be a woman or in your position. But there's been obviously a movement for decades for women to be more driven and really go after what they want.
34:22 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:23 Lewis Howes? Career, business, goals, dreams, aspirations.
34:26 Speaker 00 Yep.
34:27 Lewis Howes? And at the same time, there's probably judgment for going after those things.
34:32 Speaker 00 Absolutely.
34:33 Lewis Howes? When you have kids and not being there for the kids. So there's this push for women to go, be more than what you were told maybe as a child you shouldn't be doing or something, right? Like go be more, do what you want, chase your dreams, live a career, life, have kids later in life, all these different things, wait to get married, whatever it might be. But then doing it, there's probably judgment around it also of like, well, now you have two kids and now you have a responsibility and now you should be at home more and how are you raising them and you're letting him raise them and why aren't you? You know, there's probably this judgment. So how you navigate the guilt, shame, judgment from others, maybe internally for living this type of lifestyle?
35:15 Speaker 00 Yeah. You know, it's crazy because oftentimes, and I say this with respect, I ask myself, would my male counterpoint CEOs have to worry about this or think about this or do this? And I had a massive moment. So I'm here with you and this is the first time I've been gone from my family in nine months. So it's not like I'm on the road all the time. I'm actually never on the road. And I had this moment two nights ago when my three-year-old woke up in the middle of the night screaming for me and I had her monitor on my nightstand in the hotel room. And for an entire hour, I sat on my phone and helped her breathe and I just said, smell the flowers, blow out the candles.
35:59 Speaker 00 Smell the flowers, blow out the candles. And I got her back to sleep while I'm here in California. I'm sitting here and I'm like pumping because I'm nursing my kid back home, talking to my three-year-old and I have to wake up and do multiple things the next day. And I was like, would any of my male CEOs be expected to have a baby monitor on? And do, you know what I mean? And I say that out of a, there's so much expectation around women. And it's like we're supposed to work like we're not mothers and mother like we don't have careers and like that's a problem. And it's fascinating because I don't necessarily feel guilt. I want my daughters to like see me doing my work.
36:43 Speaker 00 And actually, when I first had Coco and it was like this three year long journey and I just like fricking prayed for like this miracle and here she comes. I never wanted her to see me working. I had a weird thing about it where I was like, I want her to never see me like on my phone or my computer. I just want.
37:01 Lewis Howes? Why?
37:02 Speaker 00 I just wanted her to never feel like second fiddle, even though she was a baby, but like I just wanted her to see like mommy's present. I, I feel like there's this huge pressure for presents where it's like, don't blink, you're gonna miss it, you know, and it's like, I literally remember like feeding her and like looking at her and like counting her eyelashes and being like, am I gonna remember this moment? Cause it was just like, I know how fleeting this all is.
37:25 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
37:26 Speaker 00 And as she's gotten older, I want her to see me working and I want her to understand my work. And I want it to be something that she's proud of and I want it to paint possibility because the lifestyle she's living is possible because of my work. And so when I was writing my book, in the dedication, it says like, to Coco, like, thanks for being my biggest muse and like my greatest inspiration. Also, thank you for sitting next to me and making me play Baby Shark in the corner of my computer screen while I was writing my book so that we could sit together. Because she would literally be by me while I was working. I watched Baby Shark a lot of times.
38:05 Speaker 00 And you know, it's fascinating because as she's starting to like understand more and stuff, obviously her scope of what's normal in terms of a career as a woman is, is very like enlightened for seeing what I've done and what I continue to do, but it is so much pressure because it's like, you know, no dad is asked like, oh, you left your baby at home to go do a work trip? Like that, it's just a different thing. And even on the way here to your studio, I had a Uber driver, we were in a minivan and we're like talking about family and, and I was like, yeah, you know, I have a little one at home and he was like, oh, how did you leave? And I was like, you don't think it was hard enough, like,
38:45 Lewis Howes? Right.
38:45 Speaker 00 You know, and it was like, I'm like, there have been 10 times on this trip where I've just been like, book me a flight, I'm going home. But I truly believe I'm still working at a pace that is super sustainable.
38:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
38:57 Speaker 00 And in a way that it's like, no, I'm home. And when I'm away, you better believe I'm getting stuff done.
39:04 Lewis Howes? Right. And you're gone for a limited time and you go back.
39:07 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:08 Lewis Howes? I'm curious about money dynamics.
39:11 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah, let's talk about it.
39:12 Lewis Howes? I don't think this is talked about enough.
39:14 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:15 Lewis Howes? Well, I also don't think there's a lot of models out there, maybe that I've seen where, you know, the female partner in a male female dynamic is the breadwinner, is the one earning all the money, majority of the money, 90%, whatever it is, and responsible for most of the money.
39:33 Lewis Howes? Two questions here. One, how did you learn to believe you were able to earn more? When you kind of had a set amount you were making for so many years, obviously it was increasing, but to really exponentially grow to abundance financially? That's number one. How did you believe that you could earn more? And what was the deciding factor for unlocking more for you? And then number two, how do you manage the money dynamic in the relationship? And how does that work? How does that communicate it? How do people believe in their worth's different stages?
40:07 Speaker 00 Yeah. So the first part of the question is actually gonna be very different than I think what you're expecting. So I remember the day that I hit six figures. And for me, that was a massive goal.
40:24 Lewis Howes? Like, get six figures in one year, you brought it in. What year was this?
40:27 Speaker 00 This would have been my third year as a wedding photographer, so 2014.
40:31 Lewis Howes? Okay.
40:32 Speaker 00 So I built a six-figure photography business in three years flat.
40:35 Lewis Howes? It's big.
40:36 Speaker 00 It's big.
40:36 Lewis Howes? In the Midwest.
40:37 Speaker 00 In the Midwest, it was like basically condensed to six months of shooting. I shot every weekend. I had no time off. I missed weddings. I missed time with my family. And I remember the day that I hit six figures felt like crap.
40:52 Lewis Howes? Really?
40:53 Speaker 00 I was empty. I was burnt out. I remember like standing in the shower and being like, why aren't the angels singing? Where is the confetti? Because I thought this would feel different. And what's interesting is, is I was just so tired, like I was like the bone deep kind of tired. And I'd built this business and hit this goal and it felt terrible. And Drew came home from work uh the next day and I said, I thought this is gonna feel different. I'm not even enjoying the money I'm making because I have no time. And I said, I'm gonna propose something that's a little crazy, but I just wanna see what you think.
41:36 Speaker 00 And I made this color-coded spreadsheet and he sat down and I said, I was a lot happier when I made fifty thousand dollars a year. Said, I can't do this again. This isn't sustainable. I I'm ready to chuck my camera out the window. And I said, would you support me if I said, I wanna go back to making fifty thousand dollars a year, but I want more time? And it was really weird because I like expected him to kind of be like, uh, you know?
42:02 Lewis Howes? Was he making a lot of money then or was he making some money?
42:04 Speaker 00 Like fifty, I mean, we were both like, we were just both the Midwest average. And I thought he was gonna be kind of like, uh, and he looked so relieved. Like it was just like, yeah, let's do it. We we know we can.
42:20 Lewis Howes? Right.
42:21 Speaker 00 We know we have, like if we go back to eating ramen noodles, great. So I like made a super, super clear boundary and at the time I'd been shooting thirty weddings and I was like, I am only gonna book fifteen next year. I'm gonna say no to everything beyond that. Line is in the sand. I'm not gonna cross it because I was I was a yes girl. I was like, talk to me, a good girl, say yes, don't disappoint people. And so the next year I cut it in half and something insane happened when I did that, which was not at all what I expected. But when I got my time back again, when I got margin back. It was when I was creative again and curious again, started listening to podcasts, started taking online courses.
43:04 Speaker 00 Started learning other things. I would have never, my eyes would have never been open to any of this world if I would have stayed on the hamster wheel and just kept working more and more and more. And it was crazy because literally I went, I was like, I don't care about money, give me back time. And when I freed up my time. I ended up figuring out ways to unlock how to make more money.
43:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
43:26 Speaker 00 And there's also a story in the book inspired by you. Because there's a chapter called, what is your enough point?
43:34 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
43:34 Speaker 00 And you actually probably don't even know this. Uh, but when we were in Puerto Rico on one of our trips, you had brought along a photographer.
43:42 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
43:42 Speaker 00 And we were up on the rooftop.
43:45 Lewis Howes? Taking photos, I still have selfie photo from that.
43:47 Speaker 00 Yes, we were up on the rooftop. And he comes over to me and he was like.
43:51 Lewis Howes? Did he ask you this question?
43:53 Speaker 00 Uh huh.
43:53 Lewis Howes? Taylor? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:54 Speaker 00 And he goes, you used to do this, didn't you? And I said, yep.
43:57 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
43:58 Speaker 00 And he said, how did you get out of it? How did you become the person that's not behind the lens, but the person drinking the champagne on the rooftop, watching sunset?
44:05 Lewis Howes? Right.
44:06 Speaker 00 And I said, oh, I bet you want me to like, give you like a step A to Z. And I said, you need your time back.
44:14 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
44:15 Speaker 00 And I said, you have to establish what is your enough point? Like, what do you need to feel safety and security? And you need to draw a line in the sand and not book a single shoot or session beyond it.
44:26 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
44:27 Speaker 00 And I told him, I was like, it's not sexy, but like, you need your time to figure out what's next. You don't even have the bandwidth or the energy to think of anything. And I remember, I feel like he was like disappointed in that answer because it was like, no, no, no, there's no magic thing. But like, so many of us are just like, we keep filling up our plates. At the buffet and we're so full, it's like, we can't even think of the next meal. It's like we're, we're working so hard right now that like, how could we have an idea or a vision? Or do research or curiosity when we're so overwhelmed with what's already in front of us?
45:02 Lewis Howes? Yes.
45:03 Speaker 00 And so, you know, it's, it's wild to me because it's like, I only unlocked. The potential because time was more important than money. And every single time I've done that where I've claimed back time, whether it was, you know, after having my daughter, I blacked out my calendar for a year and said I'm saying no to everything. I'm not speaking anywhere. I'm not, I'm not doing anything. And then I unlocked these other ideas and it's like, you know, it's like every time I've like valued time, I've done that. To answer the second part of the question about like, what is the dynamic in things like, it's really interesting because I just see his teamwork.
45:44 Speaker 00 And like, so to me, it's like, it's ours. Of course, this business is mine. I've built it. Um, you know, I have thoughts around like when people get divorced and someone takes half. I'm like, okay, but they didn't necessarily build the thing, um, and things like that, but like, I worked at Target when we got married. So like, he literally has been behind this thing since day one. Um, but it's fascinating because he, there's the business's money and then there's our money. I pay myself from the business. So I still live off of a pretty meager salary because I want to invest in my wealth in different ways and I'm a huge saver and things like that.
46:25 Speaker 00 So we don't really argue and stuff about money because we grew up in families where, you know, at the grocery store, we would buy like the off-brand Cheerios because they were cheaper.
46:37 Lewis Howes? Discount coupon codes.
46:38 Speaker 00 Swab was the shampoo and you know, and so the fact that we can live a life now, the part that feels most exciting to me is like when we go to a restaurant and you don't look at the prices.
46:49 Lewis Howes? Yeah, that's nice. Or you can just buy a meal for anyone.
46:52 Speaker 00 Yeah. Like that to me is the exciting part of the money.
46:55 Lewis Howes? Isn't that crazy like?
46:56 Speaker 00 It's crazy. It's nothing big and like earth shattering.
46:59 Lewis Howes? I was remembering, I mean, even this morning, I, I never forget like the things that I went through, but I remember this morning, I don't know what triggered it, but I was walking out of my, my, my building that I'm in here in LA and I was just like, man, 12 years ago, this would have been not even possible. You know, to be able to be in a building like this.
47:19 Speaker 00 Probably.
47:20 Lewis Howes? To be able to be in a building like this in a city like this, paying the amount of rent that I'm paying, I was like, it's crazy what is possible if that's something you want. I'm not saying no one needs that, but I just remember thinking that and also. Not being able to pay for, like going to meals with friends and being like, looking at the check and be like, okay, I only bought this much and here's all I can give.
47:41 Speaker 00 Yes.
47:41 Lewis Howes? Where now it's not even just, you don't have to look at the check, you know.
47:44 Speaker 00 That's like financial freedom to me. I'm in a place in my life where like financial freedom is being debt free by choice because my parents really struggled with being in debt and I was very aware of it growing up. And if money can fix something, it's not a problem in my life. And so the tire blows, whatever, we buy a new tire. But if we haven't learned anything in these last few years around how valuable our health is, how valuable our happiness is, how life is meant to feel good and not just look good, then we really missed an opportunity.
48:20 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
48:21 Speaker 00 So, yeah, it is wild though, because I mean, we grew up in a family where like red lobster was a real big deal.
48:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
48:27 Speaker 00 And you get no beverages, no dessert, and you split a meal.
48:30 Lewis Howes? No, you get the beverage, but it's gotta be a refill beverage.
48:32 Speaker 00 Yeah.
48:32 Lewis Howes? And then you just, you keep filling it up to get as much out of that restaurant you could. Uh, it's just like Dr. Pepper land, you just keep filling it up.
48:39 Speaker 00 Yeah.
48:40 Lewis Howes? Free refills is where I went.
48:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, so it's exciting to like live in a life where it's like, yeah, I can buy the $10 green juice. To me, that feels like success more than any other thing.
48:52 Lewis Howes? Yeah, that's interesting. And so how does the, the money, the psychology of the money then, influence the relationship in a certain way? Now that you have been the one, you both kind of at the similar level.
49:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:07 Lewis Howes? And now it's like, okay, your business has been earning.
49:09 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:10 Lewis Howes? An abundance of wealth.
49:11 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:12 Lewis Howes? For the family.
49:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
49:14 Lewis Howes? And you're the one who's been creating and generating that, not him. How does that dynamic work?
49:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, he has access to everything, he has passwords to everything. It's just this level of trust in a, you know, we, we have a lot of conversations around it, but they're not like heated where it's just like, here's where we're at. He's on all the investment calls, he's a big part of like figuring out our will, like, so it's, I mean, it's really not a thing.
49:38 Lewis Howes? It's not an issue, there's nothing.
49:39 Speaker 00 No. And it's really, and I think too, because we live in a place of like abundance, like where. And not in like a woo woo way, but like in a way of like, we have more than we ever dreamed possible and we're awake to that. It's just like, I, there's never pressure on me to perform more or earn more. It's like this beautiful like.
50:01 Lewis Howes? And he's not driven to need more, so he's happy with.
50:04 Speaker 00 We're so content.
50:06 Lewis Howes? He's, he's chill, so it's not like he's driven for more and he's happy to making this or less. It's not a big deal.
50:11 Speaker 00 We're very much just like at peace in our lives and, and I think too, the Midwest keeps us really grounded. I'm really thankful we still live there, which, you know, so for so many years, so many of my friends would be like, what are you do- like, come to LA, come to New York, what are you doing? And it's fascinating when I'm in places like this because they really drain my energy, just the city energy. I'm like hearing sirens, I'm like, traffic is like, it takes you forty five minutes to get three miles, like it's, it's a different way of living. It's not a wrong way of living, it's just not for me. Like I prefer being in the woods overlooking a lake and like working wherever my laptop is, so.
50:52 Lewis Howes? The idea of that is like this fantasy that maybe one day I would like that.
50:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
50:57 Lewis Howes? But also going somewhere and, and having no activity. After three days I'd be like, I'm bored, you know, that's what I would feel this season of life, but maybe one day I'd be like, that's all I want.
51:08 Speaker 00 You know what I, you know what I think is interesting though about that? It's like, you know, a lot of people like, they'd be like, if I had a million dollars, I'd like retire and go to an island. And, you know, it's like, we know ourselves, like we like to make an impact. We like to work.
51:24 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
51:24 Speaker 00 We like to create. And I think a lot of times too, the thought of like being in a cabin in the woods freaks people out because they're afraid to be quiet with themselves. It's really easy to drown out your worries.
51:40 Lewis Howes? Sure.
51:40 Speaker 00 Your traumas, when it's just busy, busy, busy. And I think what's really fascinating and like part of why I wrote my book is that.
51:50 Speaker 00 During the pandemic, a lot of us had to live up to what we said we would do when time slowed down. I mean, how many times have we said, you know, I'll work out more, I'll eat better, I'll write the book, I'll read the book, I'll... When life slows down, and literally, life never slowed down for any of us until the pandemic. And I think a lot of us had to look ourselves in the mirror and be like, am I who I said I'd be? Because now I've been given, and if you were fortunate, you were given the gift of time. If you weren't fortunate, you were out there on the workforce still, um, or scrambling to survive. And so I wanna, you know, respect that. There's different ends of the pandemic, and it looked very different.
52:33 Speaker 00 But there is a vast majority of people who are now not commuting, had more time in the day.
52:40 Lewis Howes? Saving their time from that.
52:41 Speaker 00 Yeah. Who were they during that time? And could they be still with themselves to face it?
52:46 Lewis Howes? Sure.
52:47 Speaker 00 And so it's kind of that difference between how are you and how are you really? In that it's like you're inviting in that breath of like, who am I really?
52:55 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure. Maybe one day. But I've been looking at houses like a little bit outside of LA, not that far, like thirty minutes.
53:03 Speaker 00 Yeah.
53:03 Lewis Howes? With like a yard, you know?
53:05 Speaker 00 Yeah. You kind of like, I mean, that's what's so wild to me here. It's just like, like, we want like space and privacy and woods and quiet. And like you let the dog out the back door and the kids run around and play in the streams and stuff. And I think too, it's like...
53:19 Lewis Howes? That's like my childhood, you know? That was my childhood.
53:22 Speaker 00 That's what I was gonna say is...
53:23 Lewis Howes? Big backyard and the big tree that you're climbing.
53:25 Speaker 00 Building a dam in the stream over hours.
53:27 Lewis Howes? Picking up crawfish in the stream, yeah, of course. Crawdaddy life.
53:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, oh yeah, we would go under the bridge, like down the road and...
53:35 Lewis Howes? That was life.
53:36 Speaker 00 Yeah.
53:37 Lewis Howes? It was life, but I guess that could be life again. One day, one day.
53:42 Speaker 00 I'll getcha.
53:42 Lewis Howes? Yeah, no, I'm sure. I have a fantasy of like wanting to go back to Ohio sometime and getting a place there. But then I'd go visit in the winter and I'm like, I don't miss the winter.
53:52 Speaker 00 Then just don't go.
53:53 Lewis Howes? Right. So, but then the summer, there's mosquitoes and humidity and I don't miss sweating all day.
53:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, if you're off of Lake Superior, we don't get that as bad.
54:01 Lewis Howes? There's tons of mosquitoes up there though, right?
54:03 Speaker 00 Not, we haven't had them bad, because we're right off of the lake.
54:06 Lewis Howes? Minnesota, there's tons of them though.
54:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, in general.
54:09 Lewis Howes? Exactly, but anyways, I'm really excited about this book, um, and excited about everything you're up to. I think if people are, um... And really, the podcast which you've been doing for many years now has been about marketing, business, and building this business around your lifestyle, which I think is really inspiring. I'm curious for people that aren't entrepreneurs, or that haven't done entrepreneurial things, because you and I weren't entrepreneurs.
54:36 Speaker 00 Right.
54:37 Lewis Howes? We kind of became one.
54:38 Speaker 00 Yep.
54:40 Lewis Howes? For me, I felt like it was out of necessity at the season of my life, even though I didn't feel like I wanted to become one.
54:44 Speaker 00 Yep.
54:45 Lewis Howes? It was never like a desire, really.
54:47 Speaker 00 Yep.
54:49 Lewis Howes? But it felt like I just was kind of forced into it, or there was a necessity to it. For those that maybe feel like they might have something they want to put out there and build, but they're scared. Should they just go for it? Should they test something first and try to get a few sales on something? What do you think is the best approach now in today's time?
55:08 Speaker 00 So, I talk a lot about how I sometimes don't necessarily know what I want, but I know what I don't want.
55:18 Lewis Howes? Which is what?
55:19 Speaker 00 Like, when I was in corporate America, I sat down at a table just like this, and my boss said, "Here's your five-year plan." They never once asked me, "What do you want? What's your next move? Where do you want to go?" And I wanted to go to corporate. Like, I wanted to move back to Minnesota, be in Minneapolis. But here I was, in a store, a glorified HR person that had to bring the garbage to the dumpster at the end of the night, wearing red and khaki, which, by the way, I hate red and khaki.
55:48 Speaker 00 And I, sometimes I think that people get really lost, because they're like, "Well, yeah, if I knew what my passion was, I could go figure out a way to make money, but I don't even know what my passion is, right?" And sometimes, I think, knowing what you don't want is just as important as knowing what you do want.
56:04 Lewis Howes? Right.
56:05 Speaker 00 And sometimes, it's an easier place to start with. Like, I don't want 10 vacation days a year. I don't want to work weekends and nights. Like, you know, and so it's like trying to figure those things out. But the other piece of that is that... We have to like start to be open in saying, I've changed.
56:22 Lewis Howes? Right.
56:23 Speaker 00 I'm evolving.
56:24 Lewis Howes? Maybe I wanted this thing for a while, but now I want something different.
56:26 Speaker 00 Yes. It's like we get so attached to our identities that the thought of like saying, oh, I'm different. Or I, I know I said I wanted this, but it doesn't feel the way I thought it would. And so I want to pursue something different. It's like this, there's this notion, Dr. Maya Shankar was on my podcast and she talks about identity foreclosure. And it's like, the reason why you hold on to genes that don't fit you anymore, because you remember how you invested in them. Or the reason why you get the degree, even though three years into it, you know that you don't want to do the profession. It's this idea of like, so I gotta make it worth something, but instead then we're wasting our future, right? And so.
57:03 Lewis Howes? You call it identity closure?
57:05 Speaker 00 Identity foreclosure.
57:06 Lewis Howes? Foreclosure.
57:07 Speaker 00 Like as in I'm foreclosing this piece of me. I am shutting it down because I am no longer who I was. And it's fascinating because even being here with you today, having a book coming out, you're seeing a changed mind.
57:23 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you didn't want to do this.
57:24 Speaker 00 At all. I mean, you are the one person who truly witnessed how much I said I wouldn't do this.
57:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you're like, just go on your course and make a bunch more money and have less stress.
57:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, totally.
57:35 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
57:36 Speaker 00 And so it's like, we are so afraid of changing and not just changing, which is scary and uncertain. We're afraid of people seeing us change. We're afraid of being like, I know I said this one thing, but I don't believe it anymore.
57:50 Lewis Howes? Yes.
57:50 Speaker 00 And I think that change is like growth and evolution. And like, we're in this thing called life school, school of greatness, life school, where we are learning and if we're not learning and evolving, like, what are we doing? We're missing this opportunity. But I would say for those people who are like, maybe I have this idea or whatever. Do it as an experiment. Don't ta- attach money to it, don't attach deadlines. Look at how I wrote the book. Do it in a way that proves to yourself that one, you're capable of taking action. But in a way that doesn't necessarily paint things as like black and white success and failure. Look at everything as an experiment. I'm gonna try this thing. All it's gonna do is yield a result and that result is gonna guide my next step.
58:32 Lewis Howes? Yes.
58:32 Speaker 00 And I feel like nowadays, it's like. We have to like define, is this a success or is it a failure? No, no, no, no, no. I've done many things and failed. I've tried many different things and been like, oh, that was not like I did senior portraits one year. So I was like, I can make bank shooting seniors. I hated it.
58:49 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
58:50 Speaker 00 Did it for one summer. I was like, never again. Was it a failure? No way. It was just a point on the path that was guiding me forward. And so. I feel like getting really open to like trying things. And the other part of that is that every single time I've tried something different, it's always been a side hustle. I've not abandoned the nine to five. To jump all in on something. I've used the nine to five to fuel the other something. Then when I did courses, I use the courses to fuel the podcast. And when I did the podcast, I, you know. It's like they all pour into each other and it's like we're so quick to neglect something. Because it wasn't the perfect fit, when it's like, that can propel you forward if you lean on it.
59:31 Speaker 00 And it'll give you this ability to not feel the desperation that makes us say yes to the wrong things or do things that were never meant for us.
59:39 Lewis Howes? Absolutely. What was the biggest identity foreclosure you've had in the last few years?
59:45 Speaker 00 Getting rid of my Abercrombie jeans from when I was eighteen.
59:50 Speaker 00 Truly, I, I, I remember how expensive those suckers were and how I saved every pretty penny. And I told myself someday they'll fit again. And guess what? They don't and they're not even in style anymore. But I literally. No, I mean, that was part of it, but. I think for me. Um, moving back home, which is something so Drew and I met in college in Wisconsin. Lived in Wisconsin for over a decade and, and moved back home. Uh, to Duluth, Minnesota and.
1:00:20 Speaker 00 You know, one, I never thought I'd move home. I did, there's just something about it where it's like, ah, the people that are there are still doing the same things.
1:00:28 Lewis Howes? Right.
1:00:28 Speaker 00 Still the same people.
1:00:29 Lewis Howes? Different mindset, stuck in a ways or whatever, yeah.
1:00:32 Speaker 00 And I had noticed too, a trend, and I'm curious, like, when you go back to Ohio, if you like stay where you grew up, like, do you kind of revert to your old self?
1:00:41 Lewis Howes? A little bit, yeah. I really love it though, because, yeah, I do, because I'll hang out at the restaurants.
1:00:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:00:46 Lewis Howes? And I'll like just talk to the people, just like I'm there.
1:00:49 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:00:49 Lewis Howes? You know, like I'm from there.
1:00:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. It was funny though, because I like, whenever I would go home, like in college, I'd like find myself like sleeping on the couch again and watching MTV and eating ramen noodles. And like, things that were not a part of who I was, but like, there was just this like comfort, like, this is what I do. I never thought I'd move back home and um, I had this vision. After our second loss, I like hired someone to like help me unpack the grief, because I was, I skipped like denial and went straight to anger after our second loss. So I just was like, what is wrong with me? Why is this happening? Um, you know, I was very public about our first loss and felt like there was purpose there.
1:01:29 Lewis Howes? Yes, the second one, you were like, this is frustration and anger.
1:01:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I was like.
1:01:33 Lewis Howes? I got the lesson already, I don't need this again.
1:01:35 Speaker 00 Right, and I was like praying to God, like, where is your redemption song? Because I want to like prove how great you are, and now you've let me down again, and like, I don't even know where to go from here. And I hired this person to like, help me unpack my grief, because I was like, I'm angry, I hate my body, I don't know what to do. And she like led me through this exercise, and we were like sitting together, and she, we would get on the phone once a week, and every time I wanted to like hit ignore. You know, like, I was just like, didn't want to do the call.
1:02:03 Lewis Howes? Deal with it, yeah.
1:02:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, because I was just like, I know this is gonna suck. And we're like on the phone, and just like, okay, we're, we're gonna do a little exercise, and I want for you to close your eyes and like breathe. And her name is Erin Trilor, and she runs um, a really cool Instagram called Raw Beauty Talks, and it's all about like coming back to your body. And uh, so she's like having me breathe, and she's like, I want for you to envision like the most vibrant version of yourself. Like you are happy and energized and alive, and, and it didn't just stop at like the vision, she's like, you know, like, put your fingers in your finger slots, like step into your feet. Like, I want for you to be there and like feel what it feels to like be fully alive and to enjoy your life.
1:02:47 Speaker 00 And she said this line and it was like like a dial on a stereo. I want for you to turn your intuition up. And turn the noise of the world down. And I was like envisioning all this. And in the vision, I saw this little girl and pancakes. And a Persian rug. And I was wearing jeans and a white linen shirt. And I opened my eyes after the vision. I was like bawling. And I said to her, she goes, you know, what came up for you? And I was like, I think we have to move. And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, I love the house we're in, but. There's this bedroom and it was always gonna be our baby's bedroom.
1:03:31 Speaker 00 I could get so emotional, but then I'm like, every time I walk by it, I just think about what hasn't happened. And I was like, I just this vision of like this long table and like this rug and this baby and like I see it. And I was like, I think we've got to move. And that day, because I'm a quick action taker.
1:03:55 Speaker 00 I get on Zillow and I type in Duluth, Minnesota and Drew and I had never talked about moving home. Like it was like a maybe we'll move to Minneapolis someday, like, you know, kind of stay. We were in a really small town in Wisconsin called Fort Atkinson. And we had great friends and stuff, but we didn't have the support of a family. And I found this house on Zillow. And I text my family text thread as a joke and say, maybe this will be the Kutcher Craftsman. Like it was this beautiful home in Minnesota. We had never talked about it. Drew is out on a run and his phone starts blowing up because my family's like, move home.
1:04:34 Speaker 00 He gets home, he's like, what is going on in your family text thread? Like it's going crazy. And I was like, did you see the listing? And he's like, what listing? And I was like, I saw this house in Minnesota and. I thought he would be like, you know, maybe three years from now and and he's like, oh, we could do that. And I was like, what? And you know, it's crazy because I didn't necessarily move because of the vision, but it was like the first thing where I was like, you know, the where we are is not working for me. The craziest part is this, Louis. We didn't move for like seven, eight months. The day after we moved in, I took a positive pregnancy test.
1:05:14 Lewis Howes? Wow.
1:05:15 Speaker 00 It was it was liter- I like, I always say, I'm like, it's like I would like had to move home. And like be grounded at home. Like it just felt like this like crazy moment where it was like, I'm home and I'm ready and like this is it.
1:05:28 Lewis Howes? And that next day you moved in. That's crazy.
1:05:30 Speaker 00 It's crazy.
1:05:32 Lewis Howes? When was this?
1:05:33 Speaker 00 Um, April first of twenty seventeen.
1:05:35 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh.
1:05:36 Speaker 00 For twenty eighteen, yeah. So it was like.
1:05:39 Lewis Howes? It's like right after the mastermind that, yeah, that was.
1:05:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:05:42 Lewis Howes? That next year.
1:05:43 Speaker 00 And it was like, and here's the thing that's so wild about my journey because, you know, one in four women experiences pregnancy loss.
1:05:51 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
1:05:51 Speaker 00 Um, is that when you're in it, I mean, it is dark.
1:05:58 Lewis Howes? I can imagine.
1:05:59 Speaker 00 And I often think about, it's like if you were like walking through like a warehouse and it's just like pitch black. And you're literally just like inching step by step, like you don't know where you're going. And it's like you just, you have a flashlight, so you can only see like directly in front of you. And once you get through it, it's like somebody turned the lights on and you see where you were and why you were there. And I hate the line, like, everything happens for a reason, because when you are in it, there is zero reason why, yeah, there is no reason why that happened. But our like three year waiting season, I can see now with hindsight.
1:06:36 Speaker 00 was required for me to build a life that supported what I was waiting for.
1:06:42 Lewis Howes? Really?
1:06:43 Speaker 00 When I first was pregnant with my first pregnancy, I was shooting twenty-five weddings a year. I remember we were in Hawaii and I looked up the due date. And I was like, I can't be due then. I have like four more weddings. I mean, I like have to cancel on these.
1:06:57 Lewis Howes? Oh, man.
1:06:57 Speaker 00 Like, I literally was like.
1:06:58 Lewis Howes? It's like you were sabotaging your body.
1:07:00 Speaker 00 It was like I didn't know how I would do it. You know what I mean?
1:07:04 Lewis Howes? Your body's like, we're not gonna let you do it then.
1:07:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, like it's crazy. And then the second time around was a huge wake-up call because I found out that I had lost the baby, but my body was still pregnant and I had to show up and shoot a wedding the next day.
1:07:19 Lewis Howes? Ah, oh my gosh.
1:07:21 Speaker 00 And so I had to pretend like I was the happy, you know, the happy wedding photographer.
1:07:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
1:07:27 Speaker 00 And so when I look at those losses, they were massive teachers in my life. But by the time I was pregnant for the third time, I had built a life where I was able to move and I wasn't tied to anything and I had no clients to answer to. And I had built that. And so there's this quote that I heard from a preacher and it's like sometimes the season of waiting is just as important as what it is that we're waiting for.
1:07:52 Lewis Howes? Mm-hmm.
1:07:53 Speaker 00 I think a lot of people find themselves in seasons of waiting and it's really easy to want to like twiddle your thumbs and just sit there, right? Like just wait and wait and wait. But I think we waste it and it's like I worked while I waited and I don't mean like I hustled. I worked towards a life I wanted for when the time came.
1:08:13 Lewis Howes? Mm-hmm.
1:08:13 Speaker 00 And it was so evident when it happened.
1:08:16 Lewis Howes? That's inspiring.
1:08:18 Speaker 00 It's a crazy story and it's one that I don't tell often. And there's a line in my book that says like, okay, I know this story is wild, but like you don't have to move zip codes to start living more into yourself. One of the things I realized after that vision was my vision was jeans and a white linen shirt. And I looked down and I was wearing sweatpants and like a college T-shirt. And I was like, you know what? Maybe I just start putting on the jeans. Maybe I don't have the baby and the pancakes and the Persian rug, but maybe I can just start dressing the way that I would dress if I was vibrant and alive and healthy. Maybe I just take a tiny step of becoming, I can't control the outcome of having a baby.
1:09:01 Speaker 00 But I can control showing up as a more vibrant version of myself right now.
1:09:05 Lewis Howes? Absolutely. You said during the season, the dark season.
1:09:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:09:10 Lewis Howes? That it's hard to think about, this is all happening for a reason, right?
1:09:16 Lewis Howes? What do you think? We can think about during a dark season? Some someone deals with anything dark in their life. What should they, how should they be processing or thinking about it as opposed to, oh, well, maybe this is happening for a reason?
1:09:30 Speaker 00 I don't think that, yeah, I agree. I don't think that language is helpful when you're in it, right? Cause there are so many tragedies and things that shouldn't happen. Or that you shouldn't have to experience. There's this line in my book that talks about grief, cause we talk about it. And it says that a lot of times people want to move on from grief. You're waiting for life to feel normal again. You're waiting to feel like yourself. And I say grief isn't something that we're meant to move on from. It's something we're meant to move with. We're meant to pick it up and carry it with us, even if we're inching forward. Like we're getting stronger because of the things we've been through.
1:10:11 Speaker 00 You're not meant to come out on the other side of grief, the same person you were when you went into it, right? Like that, what a wasted opportunity for tragedy. And in my life, loss has probably been my greatest teacher. Right? Like I look at those like lost pregnancies and I'm like, they were like somehow like looking out for me.
1:10:33 Speaker 00 And it doesn't mean that it wasn't hard or that I I literally think about those babies every single day. But if I wasted that and like didn't use it. That would be a real loss.
1:10:45 Lewis Howes? That's the tragedy.
1:10:46 Speaker 00 That's the tragedy. And I think oftentimes it's like we sit in the loss and we waste that time. When we need to just slowly start moving with it and carrying it with us as a changed person.
1:11:04 Speaker 00 I don't know a single person who has been through anything tragic in their life. I mean, you lost your dad, like you are a different person than even a few months ago. And so I I believe that we've got to like change the notion of like, oh, you're gonna be back to normal in a month or like this expectation. And it's like, we've got to invite people to like evolve and move forward at their own pace. And I always liken grief like for me, and it might be different for you, but for me. I always think about like Lake Superior. We we have a place on Lake Superior. And there are some days where I can stand on the shore and watch like how mighty and powerful it is and just stand there in awe.
1:11:46 Speaker 00 And there are some days where it feels like grief makes me feel like I'm literally getting sucked under in the current and I can't even stay afloat. And it there's a huge difference between like the days where you can be like, yeah, that was hard. And I'm observ-, you know, I can see the power of that and stuff. And there are days where you're like triggered or something and it's like you are sucked under. And we don't give ourselves enough space to like have those different types of days. And you don't know when they're gonna land. You know, there will be like, I still think about like the due dates of my first pregnancies. Or I celebrate a kid's birthday and I'm like, my kid should be that old. So it's like if we don't give ourselves a grace of like, some days I'm getting sucked in, I need a life raft.
1:12:31 Speaker 00 And some days I'm like just standing there being like, wow, that was powerful. I mean, it's all a part of the process of grief, you know?
1:12:40 Lewis Howes? I hear you.
1:12:42 Speaker 00 We're in it.
1:12:42 Lewis Howes? It's been coming in waves for me for the last two months, too.
1:12:45 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:12:45 Lewis Howes? Since my dad passed, it's like, some days I feel okay, and then other days, it's like, I hear a song, and it triggers me, and I just feel really sad, or vulnerable, or grieving.
1:12:56 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:12:56 Lewis Howes? You know, it's a process, it's a journey.
1:12:58 Speaker 00 It's a lifelong process, I think.
1:13:00 Lewis Howes? Oh, man, I'm really excited for this, your book, How Are You Really? I want people to go check it out at jennakutcher.com, or follow you everywhere on social media, at jennakutcher, your podcast as well, The Goal Digger Podcast. If you're thinking of entrepreneurship, and business, and branding, and marketing, go listen to that, it's a powerful, powerful podcast. You've got tons of courses, and programs, and things for people to help, who are creators, entrepreneurs, online as well, so they can get it all at jennakutcher.com. Is there anywhere specifically we should go for the book?
1:13:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, you can go to howareyoureallybook.com.
1:13:38 Lewis Howes? Okay.
1:13:39 Speaker 00 And we've got a landing page, and all the spots you can grab it. And, you know, as someone who said, "I would never do this," I've never worked harder on something in my life, and I've never wanted it to be in the hands of more people. And so, I really am excited.
1:13:54 Lewis Howes? A book is a lot, it can be a lot, I mean, no one does a book and just like, kinda,
1:13:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:13:59 Lewis Howes? half-hazardly puts it out there.
1:14:01 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:14:01 Lewis Howes? It's like, it's so much effort and energy, and something we really care about, you know, when we launch a book. It's interesting, it's probably why a lot of people are resistant of doing it.
1:14:11 Speaker 00 Absolutely, I mean, you know what's interesting is like, as content creators and digital creators, the fact that you work on something for two years without revealing it.
1:14:21 Lewis Howes? Crazy.
1:14:22 Speaker 00 Crazy.
1:14:22 Lewis Howes? Crazy.
1:14:23 Speaker 00 But you know what, it's been such a great lesson for me, of like, sitting on something, waiting on it, revising it, editing, editing, editing, like, where it's like, you know, done is better than perfect, in a lot of ways, and in a lot of times, it's good to take that imperfect action, and when you do something like this, you're really taught patience in the process, and it's been a really good teacher for me.
1:14:48 Lewis Howes? And you could also get caught up in never being done.
1:14:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, so someone said to me the other day-
1:14:53 Lewis Howes? You also need a deadline, too.
1:14:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, they're like, there's a reason why it's called a book release, and it's like, you're releasing it out into the world, because you could literally nitpick-
1:15:03 Lewis Howes? Go for years.
1:15:04 Speaker 00 For years.
1:15:04 Lewis Howes? You could work for ten years.
1:15:05 Speaker 00 I think a lot of people do that.
1:15:06 Lewis Howes? And they never put it out.
1:15:07 Speaker 00 That's right.
1:15:08 Lewis Howes? I mean, there's so many things I could change in my previous books.
1:15:10 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:15:11 Lewis Howes? Still today, I'm like, I could have added this or taken this out.
1:15:14 Speaker 00 Could always do that.
1:15:14 Lewis Howes? You always could do it. So it's a yes, Ann. It's like, okay, how can I give it the patience, the time, the energy, the revisions, and also?
1:15:22 Speaker 00 Release it.
1:15:23 Lewis Howes? Release it, like, there's gonna be something that could be changed. I mean, very excited for you. HowAreYouReallyBook.com, make sure you guys go check it out. Get a few copies for your friends, all the bonuses and all that stuff. Jenna Kutcher dot com. This is a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths. So imagine it's your last day on earth, many years away from now. You live as long as you want to live, you get to do all the things you want to do.
1:15:44 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:15:45 Lewis Howes? But for whatever reason, everything you've created has to go to another place. The book, podcasts, social media, content, everything's gone. No one has access to your information anymore.
1:15:54 Speaker 00 Okay.
1:15:56 Lewis Howes? But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world that you've learned. Three truths.
1:15:59 Speaker 00 Yep.
1:16:00 Lewis Howes? What would be those truths for you?
1:16:02 Speaker 00 Time is your currency.
1:16:05 Speaker 00 Everything is temporary. And you'll never regret the time you spend with the people you love.
1:16:11 Lewis Howes? Hmm, yeah. Amen to that. I want to acknowledge you, Jenna. It's been a beautiful journey since I've known you, 2017, since I first met you.
1:16:19 Speaker 00 Yeah. It's not a while.
1:16:21 Lewis Howes? Twenty-five years, almost six years now. And the way you show up for yourself, the way you show up for your family, for your kids, for your dreams, for your health, everything. You make decisions that aren't popular sometimes. You do things that are against the norm, but you do them your way. And you do them in a way that works for you, that makes you feel peace and healthy and loved. And so I think that's really beautiful, that you're giving and creating and serving people and also reminding yourself to make sure you serve yourself in that process and not lose yourself in that process. So I really acknowledge you. Very proud of you.
1:16:57 Speaker 00 Thank you.
1:16:58 Lewis Howes? Very grateful for you and your friendship and everything.
1:17:00 Speaker 00 Thank you for having me on the show. And, you know, it's, it really is a full circle moment of like, Drew and I often talk about how being a part of your mastermind changed my life in so many ways. And so thank you for
1:17:16 Lewis Howes? That's good, I'm happy.
1:17:16 Speaker 00 Being that leader, but thank you for being my friend, too.
1:17:19 Lewis Howes? Of course, yeah. I'm happy, I'm always wanting to facilitate, you know, facilitate experiences for people. Uh, my final question is, what's your definition of greatness?
1:17:27 Speaker 00 Doing what you love. Being with the people you love, but doing it in a way that feels good and doesn't just look good.
1:17:36 Lewis Howes? Jenna Kutcher. Appreciate you.
1:17:37 Speaker 00 Thank you.
1:17:38 Lewis Howes? You're the best. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
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