They Want You Silent—Who Gets to Speak, Who Gets Silenced & Why the U.S. Is Falling Apart | The Tom Bilyeu Show

In the latest episode of "Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu," Tom and his co-host Drew dive into the maelstrom of today's economic and political realities. The discussion kicks off with a sharp analysis of the ongoing tariff mayhem between the US and China, exploring the unprecedented nature of these economic conflicts and the influence of information velocity on public perception. Tom and Drew delve into the spectacle of politics in the Trump era, likening the current state of governance to reality TV, and examine the implications this transparency has on international relations. The duo also tackles the intricacies of voter ID laws, debating the balance between accessibility and security in electoral processes. SHOWNOTES 00:00 Voting Rights Debate 12:43 Rethinking Personal Worth and Certainty 22:24 Navigating Conflicting Opinions Respectfully 34:57 ID Verification and Scrutiny Limits 41:43 Voting and Illegal Immigration Concerns 56:08 "Firsthand Experience vs Logical Insight" 01:08:10 "Warfare's Endless Cycle Debate" 01:20:04 Future Personalized Education with AI 01:28:25 School System's Inefficiency Discussion 01:43:24 Parental Influence on Child's Education 01:53:37 Impact of Childhood Development Choices 01:55:09 "Individual Choice Over Government Control" 02:09:23 Science, God, and Rules Debate 02:16:37 Territorial Claims and Historical Debates 02:27:08 "Religion: Brain Wiring and Consequences" CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Audible: Sign up for a free 30 day trial at https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY1 Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Kettle & Fire: Get 20% off your first order at https://kettleandfire.com/impact with code IMPACT Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact Thrive Market: ​​Go to https:thrivemarket.com/impact http://thrivemarket.com/impact for 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! American Alternative Assets: If you're ready to explore gold as part of your investment strategy, call 1-888-615-8047 or go to https://TomGetsGold.com https://tomgetsgold.com Tech Unheard: Tune into Tech Unheard from Arm and NPM—wherever you get your podcasts. iTrust Capital: Use code IMPACTGO when you sign up and fund your account to get a $100 bonus at https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu Mint Mobile: If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at https://mintmobile.com/impact. https://mintmobile.com/impact DISCLAIMER: Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5 gigabyte plan required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes & fees extra. See MINT MOBILE for details. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20showjoin me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:https://tombilyeu.com/callsee if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:https://tombilyeu.com/sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT athttps://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:http://apple.co/impacttheoryapple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=enhttps://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeuhttps://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeuhttps://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. Douglas Murray and Dave Smith collide in a viral Rogan interview. China slaps America with more tariffs as the economic war continues to rage. China pressures Chinese companies not to open manufacturing bases in other countries. Besson breaks down how the tariff game will play out. Dr. Phil makes the case to Trump that China is buying American farmland near our military sites on purpose.

• 1:30Tom Bilyeu?

  And Minecraft the Movie introduces a new generation to the joys of interactive cinema. Drew, Douglas Murray, and Dave Smith were getting pretty heated about something I call the dumb voter problem. It's pretty crazy.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were going at it. You talk about this dumb voter problem a lot. I think we need to level set on it. Before we jump into their commentary, before we play a clip, what do you mean if you could give it to me 35 words like?

• 1:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, uh, super succinctly, there is a belief by some people that some people are too dumb and they need their narrative controlled.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  A lot of people are calling that the experts problem. I know Sam Harris did a video about that. We don't want just anybody to say to become the expert on anything. Podcasts, anybody with a mic is an authority, things like that.

• 2:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep. Even my boy Asman Gold was going on a riff. I saw it today. I don't know when he recorded it, but recently about we need to disenfranchise more voters. Fewer people making decisions, Drew. That's what the world needs. I get the impulse, but I think ultimately it is very misguided and we saw it play out in a very heated exchange. The interesting thing is there's two ways to approach the clip that I assume we're about to show people from Rogan, where Dave Smith and Douglas Murray were arguing. And one is that they're like two ships passing in the night. They're not having the same conversation, which is why literally just the opening salvo is like almost 50 minutes long, five zero, where they're just

• 2:53Tom Bilyeu?

  trying to understand where each other's coming from. And at one point at like 38 minutes or something, Douglas Murray's like, nope, you still don't understand my point. So this is one of those, and I get it. I've fallen prey to this. I've thought I've understood somebody and gone down a path. But there is a mechanism by which you can tease that out. We'll talk about it after we see that so that you don't death loop any more than you absolutely need to. And then the second part is the, do we want to control the narrative? That I think that's Sam Harris's position. He does not think I accurately represent where he's coming from. So let's keep that in mind. I think that Douglas imbues that same idea of there is a knowable narrative. We need to have it and to not have it. He kept using

• 3:36Tom Bilyeu?

  the word weird. We're going to talk about that. And then should only experts be allowed to speak? And we'll talk about that. But to set things up, I am, I love that Rogan had these two people on. I'm far more interested in the grand scheme of things on their disagreements specifically about Israel Palestine, but what's going viral is this disconnect between not who should get to speak, but all representative as it's easy, who should get to talk? Here we go, let's take a look.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  I don't quite get like, what's all the appeal to authority stuff? I mean, what you have to be an expert?

• 4:16Speaker 03

  No, I think authority matters. I think authority matters and I think that if you just throw a lot of shit out there and then say, I'm not interested in the alternative views on this, and particularly when it's a counter narrative that is wildly off. And when you get people, look, I just feel, we should get it out straight away. I feel you've opened the door to quite a lot of people who've now got a big platform, who have been throwing out counter historical stuff of a very dangerous kind. Look, these guys are not historians, they're not knowledgeable about anything.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  No one's calling Ian Carroll an historian.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  No, but then why listen to their views on Churchill?

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Daryl is incredibly knowledgeable.

• 4:53Speaker 03

  He's not, he's not. He's wildly, several reasons. One is when he was offered to debate the current greatest living biographer of Churchill, he said, I can't because he knows much more than me and I admire his work and I've learned from it, but I can't possibly debate him. That's Andrew Roberts.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  But you don't have to be able to debate people to have opinions on things.

• 5:20Speaker 03

  No, no, no, you don't have to debate people.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  If it's not your thing.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  But if you, for instance, well, okay, but if you say, I've decided that Churchill is the bad guy in World War II.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  It's not what he said, it's not what he said.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Neither Carroll nor Cooper have said that. But if you only get the contrary view, which is, isn't it fun if we all pretend Churchill was the bad guy of the 20th century? At some point, you're going to lead people down a path where they think that's the view. And that's horse shit.

• 5:47Tom Bilyeu?

  It is very important that people understand that their thinking sits on top of a foundation. That foundation has three parts, very simply, your biology, so you react emotionally to things, and that emotional reaction and your biological ability to process data.

• 6:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Like all of these things play into how you see the world. Some people can deal in higher nuance, more resolution. Other people need things slightly more simplified. So biology, that's one. Two is your belief set. What do you believe is true about the world? People think that they're witnessing objective reality. And this is what's happening here. Both sides think they see the world accurately and the other side just doesn't get it. And they presume that the other side believes what they believe. And the fact is they don't. They're, they are looking at the same thing and they are seeing very different things. So you've got your biology, you've got your beliefs, what you believe is true about the world. And then you have your values, what you believe ought to be true, the way people ought to act.

• 6:48Tom Bilyeu?

  It is a statement of um rightness or righteousness. So once you understand, okay, I've got my biology, which most people just completely ignore, have no sense of awareness of themselves, how they process data, whether they're in a bad mood, low energy, whatever, and how that impacts the way that they think. Most people just set that aside. Beliefs, most people think that they're recognizing objective truth. Values, people think that they are universal and not entirely subjective. And because you have what, and those three things together, what I call a frame of reference. So from your frame of reference, and I think the right analogy to use for a frame of reference is you are looking through a distorted pair of lenses. And that distorted pair of lenses, you have no idea that you could just take that off,

• 7:33Tom Bilyeu?

  put somebody else's distorted lenses on and suddenly see the world from their perspective. So when I'm trying to um get into a discussion with somebody, the first thing I try to do is map what their base assumptions are, their beliefs. What, what is the thing that foundationally is there? Now, the clip we're showing you is 40 minutes in to this discussion, and they're finally just now starting to try to map like where everybody is. I think if you understand Douglas as saying it's perfectly fine for anybody to talk who wants to, but dear Joe Rogan, dear Dave Smith, as podcasters who have a platform,

• 8:13Tom Bilyeu?

  You have an obligation, ought, you ought to have, so values. You ought to have a balanced take. You need more experts that can tell you what's real. And if you want to balance out all the people that are talking, that have entertaining perspectives, but are not necessarily accurate, fine, but you ought to balance that out with these experts. Now, he is never able to articulate why, but it certainly isn't difficult to prognosticate. So we'll let the clip keep going and I'll address where I think he's coming from in terms of what he believes

• 8:54Tom Bilyeu?

  are the downstream consequences, belief set, of what happens when you only go with the entertaining stuff that gets clicks and fun, cool framing. Glad everybody that wants to speak can speak, but then you start making those fun, entertaining fringe views, the actual mainstream narrative that people are telling, and that has downstream consequences from his perspective. All right.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  I'm still slightly bemused about this move from, "I'm an expert on this and I have views," to "I'm a comedian."

• 9:29Speaker 02

  I've never claimed to be an expert on anything.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  This is the problem, Joe. I mean, if, if, if, if somebody says-

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Wait a minute, you have to claim to be an expert on something to have an opinion on something?

• 9:39Speaker 03

  No, you don't have to be. You don't have to be.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  So what's the issue?

• 9:42Speaker 03

  I'm not a historian, but I'm pumping out history. I'm not an expert, but I'm talking all the time about this thing.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  But you're not even talking about specifically on what he just said.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  No, I'm saying, this is my point about this. You say, "I'm not an expert."

• 9:56Speaker 02

  So what's the solution? To not talk about it?

• 9:58Speaker 03

  No, it's to have more experts around.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Well, the expert class hasn't done a great job, man. This is follow the science.

• 10:05Tom Bilyeu?

  We're now, what, 41, almost 42 minutes into it, and Douglas Murray's saying, "You still don't understand what I'm saying." This is why I say so often, longtime listeners of the show, especially people that come to the lives, will have heard me say the following phrase over and over and over, say in 35 words or less, what it is you're trying to articulate. Because it forces people not to talk in fractals. It's like, okay, I'm going to simplify this down to, because what I'm trying to get you to is, you have a belief, what is the belief? Or you have a value, what is the value? What is the thing that's driving this conversation? If Douglas Murray had said something, and I think, and maybe when he hears this, he'll be like, I totally disagree with Tom Summation. But I think Douglas Murray's stance can be summed up in the following way.

• 10:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Anybody who wants to talk should be able to talk. But if you don't balance that in a volume way with experts who actually understand the factual interpretation, then the conversation becomes false.

• 11:07Tom Bilyeu?

  And so obviously with more words, I could take it even farther, but like just to keep it concise. And then it's like, okay, I Dave Smith am gonna repeat back to you. This is the idea of Steel Manning. I use this in my marriage all the time. I'm gonna repeat what I just heard from you back to you until you will say the phrase, you understand my position perfectly. And oftentimes you'll say it and they'll be like, ah, almost. Cool. What's the nuance that I'm missing? But again, you need to be able to give it to me in 35 words or less, or you don't understand your own position. And now I'm just like chasing you down blind alleys. I'm trying to figure out like what, what you're actually saying. And this is how you can have three. These guys are very smart.

• 11:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Two a man, very intelligent, very thoughtful. I think they're very sincere. I don't, for the fact that Joe and Dave are comedians, I think is irrelevant. I think they're being sincere, like they are really pursuing things. They've thought a lot about with very high intellect. And yet you've got three people that they legitimately don't understand where each other are coming from. So as a PSA, it's like getting down to what is the base assumption upon which all the other words that you're saying are resting on top of. And if you force yourself to do that, you force yourself to be able to articulate the other person's base assumptions back to them. Now you can actually have a conversation at the point of actual collision. Because if they were arguing about that, should you have to have balance?

• 12:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Now it's like, we can get into a real conversation and maybe both Rogan and Dave Smith are like, balance.

• 12:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Douglas, that's stupid. Like, this is a form of entertainment. And then Douglas goes, "Wait a second." So your base assumption is, despite the fact that you get millions of views, it doesn't matter? That's correct, Douglas. It's just entertainment. Okay, so I, Douglas Murray, am now realizing, as you say that, and it bothers me, biology, that my emotion is telling me that I have something under here, either a belief or a value, that's really problematic. And I think you would tease this out into Douglas's belief is that if no one can agree on the official narrative, that said another way, understanding history accurately matters because it allows you to navigate the future well. It is very

• 13:22Tom Bilyeu?

  difficult to understand history accurately. The fastest way to derange that understanding is to let people who don't actually know the nuance of this give you like some pop psychology version of history. And that will have negative downstream consequences that could lead to things as bad as war. Not that he would jump straight to that, but it's like, this is how we end up in wars, gentlemen, that you get this high level miscommunication between these countries. And so you don't want these false narratives to go unchecked. And I, Douglas Murray, also have a value that one ought to pursue maximum truth, maximum

• 14:04Tom Bilyeu?

  efficiency, whatever. And so there you have the biology discomfort around what they're saying, which is why these guys are all talking over each other, to identifying what the belief is that's driving the top line words that you're actually saying, and then getting into the odd of it all. And this is how I believe that people should deal with that thing. All right, back to the clip.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  During all of COVID, I will put my track record against any of the expert class on COVID. I'm glad to do that. So should I have just shut up? Should I have shut up by opposing lockdowns and opposing vaccine mandates?

• 14:40Tom Bilyeu?

  No, that was the argument at the time. You realize that.

• 14:43Speaker 04

  That's the entire argument that you're making. Let the expert handle this. You're not an expert. You're right, I was just a comedian.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  You're wildly not listening to what I'm saying.

• 14:53Tom Bilyeu?

  To be driving home the, instead of just saying, I'll put my, uh, my performance in COVID against any of the experts. What you say instead is, what is the belief that you have writing? Uh, I think the belief is that either the expert class specifically tries to control and manipulate, people use narrative to control you. And I, Dave Smith, believe that it's going to be people like a Rogan, like you, Douglas, like me, that will have the courage to challenge that conventional wisdom. And as the expert class has proven that they either are mouthpieces,

• 15:35Tom Bilyeu?

  even if they have good intention, they're mouthpieces for effectively propaganda, trying to keep us all marching in the same direction. And I, Dave Smith, going into aught, I believe we have a moral obligation not to try to control people at the level of narrative. And so, yeah, you need people like me, expert or not, to speak up because you've gotta, um, resist aggressively the urge that governments will have to control the way that people think.

• 16:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, if they had laid all that out, then it's like, oh, we can debate that. But they keep debating at, this is what my wife and I call, don't argue about the tea. One of the biggest fights we ever got into, probably the biggest fight we ever got into was about a cup of tea. And two hours into the screaming match, I'm like, there's no way I'm this mad about a cup of tea. So what are we actually talking about? And that's when we got down into the base assumptions, values, all that. And then I was like, oh, this is easily resolvable, but not when we're yelling about the tea.

• 16:39Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:23Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:06Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:49Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:55Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, we're back. Let's get into it.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I can kind of see both of their sides. Dave using the COVID example, Douglas Murphy using the history repeats itself example. But do you think even at the fundamental historian podcasts, should there be a line drawn in there? Should not experts be even allowed to talk? Do you think that that should be a thing as opposed to if they don't talk, da, da, da, and everybody kind of goes into the consequences, let's just start at the very beginning? Do you think that?

• 19:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so getting into my own is an ought. Okay, so I think that it is absolutely true that history is a long string of the elites controlling the narrative as a way to control the populace. And I hate everything about that. But I am well aware that it is not going to be consequence free to live in an era where anybody can talk at all times. It's good, my own ought here. It's good because now you're not able to trap people with one top down narrative, which is exactly what happened to all of us during COVID. I think it had wildly deranging consequences. I don't think the people trust the government.

• 20:06Tom Bilyeu?

  This is certainly a big reason that I ended up swinging over to voting for Trump because I was like, this is crazy to me. I feel like the authoritarian inclinations of the Biden administration are so strong that I want to get out from under this massively. And so this was really what woke me up political, from a political perspective was all throughout 2021, 2022, I was like, what is happening? I feel like I'm being lied to up, down, left, right, B, A, select start, like every direction that they're coming from, this is just, it's clearly BS. And so I just want to know what is true. And you can't silence people like

• 20:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Brett Weinstein. He's not going to be right about everything, but you can't silence him. Like, that's crazy. This is somebody who is extremely well educated in biology, who is more likely than the vast majority of humanity to be able to understand the sciences coming out around vaccines and things like that. And I want him to be able to talk. Now, I also want people who think that he's a lunatic to be able to say, I think he's a lunatic. Let me walk you through why. But I want to be able to make my own decision. So from an is ought perspective for me, I think that People and governments have just an absolute authoritarian bent. They want to control the narrative. They know that it is effective to manipulate a populace, that you can absolutely get a populace to do what you want if you can control the narrative. You can control the narrative by silencing dissenting voices.

• 21:35Tom Bilyeu?

  It is ridiculously effective. But I also believe, foundationally, that it is impossible for any one person to get everything right. I also believe that to get things right over time, you need tension between sides. Uh, I believe foundationally that it is very, it's impossible effectively to know which of the two sides is going to be right. And that to get to the right answer, you want to let well-intentioned people debate whatever they think is true. And I think that ultimately, that's going to be the best path forward is the dynamic tension between those two sides.

• 22:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, but given that it is harder than it seems to pick ahead of time, who are the right people to listen to? You just have to let everybody talk. Now, in an age where you have the volume and velocity of information that we have in a social media age, there is a consequence to that. And there's so much noise that it can be very difficult in a short amount of time to find the signal. And Douglas is right, that this will derange over time. And, uh, you really hope that you have the best people arguing for the highest signal to noise ratio interpretation of history, interpretation of this moment. Um, but I don't think you get there by telling people to be quiet. But again, my takeaway from Douglas is he's not saying people need to be quiet.

• 22:56Tom Bilyeu?

  He's saying that balance because, and I, we didn't show this part in the clip, but he goes on later to say that, he keeps saying, I think it's weird. I think it's weird that people only show one side of it, the entertaining side. And he goes on to put it very pointedly. I think there's an algorithm in real life now that's matching the algorithm of social media platforms that only pulls forward what's most engaging, keeps people on the platform with total disregard for truth. And you're now seeing. That play out where the far left will use ideology to try to manipulate the public to their side. The far right will use ideology to try to manipulate people and move them to their side.

• 23:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And there's no more shared truth. And in this world where there's no shared truth and there's only propaganda. He's like Douglas Murray, I believe the correct interpretation is that is a deranging world that I don't think any of us should want to live in. Because it will have negative consequences.

• 23:58Tom Bilyeu?

  My thing is that I firmly believe in the fullness of time. That people will get to, that some people will get to the right answer. And that you have to let it play out. And even though there will be good and bad, that system, I'll call it democratic. It's not objectively democratic, but that's directionally close. Just has far fewer negative consequences than authoritarian manipulation, lying. And coercion. So the final takeaway on the should Joe Rogan, Dave Smith, or Tom Bilyeu have this really balanced thing.

• 24:39Tom Bilyeu?

  I think the balance has to play out at the level of the person watching, not at the level of the person broadcasting. You just, you can't take that whole ethos on. The New York Times bias as hell.

• 24:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Every podcast is coming from a singular frame of reference. So even if I'm like, I do my best to actually pull myself to the center. Because I think it's the highest utility position to stand on. But even that, I know that I have, I see the world in a certain way. And so my, and you will, I hope attest to this. In the lives that we do, I routinely tell people, I hope I'm not the only voice you listen to. Like go find other people. We're all groping in the dark, trying to figure out what is true. And the only way to really get there is to. Listen to a bunch of people who disagree with each other sincerely, and then try to map cause and effect.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  This conversation mirrored another conversation they had later on in the conversation about Israel Gaza, where Douglas Murray presses Dave, "Have you actually been there?" As Dave was retorting about whether or not,

• 25:45Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna say who's right or who's wrong, but whether or not it's the correct interpretation of what Israel's doing. Do you think that that has kind of mirrors to this expert conversation as well?

• 25:53Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a layer of the expert conversation. So you've got the question, what qualifies as an expert? So this is a big part of why their conversation was derailing, was they had not yet defined the base assumptions that were driving each of their thinking. So Dave's whole thing is you don't need to be an expert to be valuable in the conversation, because I have a feeling that Dave is a little bit closer to my take of, ultimately, the onus is on the end user. I have never heard Dave say that. I don't know that that's true, but that's my read of it. And certainly speaking for myself, that ultimately, the end person taking in this information, the onus is on them to figure this stuff out. And if you have that driving assumption, now it's like, well, sure, if you want to go listen to somebody that has been there,

• 26:37Tom Bilyeu?

  and for sure, I think that firsthand experience can't be beat. Like, that's amazing. But I would rather somebody that really understands how to think through a problem, that doesn't have firsthand experience, give me their take, than somebody who's just, man, they can't even live their own life. Like, they're just a mess, but they've been there. And now they're trying to tell me what it's like. It's like, I don't trust your ability to think through problems well. So it becomes a hierarchy. Ability to synthesize would be the most important thing, from my perspective, on somebody whose opinion I'm going to take. But- Somebody who's been there and has a high level of synthesis is much higher to me than

• 27:22Tom Bilyeu?

  someone who has synthesis but hasn't been there. So I think everybody will agree that there's nuance when you've done the thing. So one of the arguments against myself that I completely understand is I love talking about parenting, but I don't have kids. And so the pushback on me is often, "Well, if you had kids, you'd think differently." Yeah, I agree. So I am giving you my sincere, strong take from where I'm sitting. By all means, if that doesn't resonate with you and you only listen to people that have kids, go for it. I think that I'm decent. I'm, you know, I'm not Einstein by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that I'm decent at synthesizing the human experience. And so I would ignore what I'm saying only because you have found people that are equally

• 28:07Tom Bilyeu?

  good at synthesizing or better and have the firsthand experience. That I would certainly understand. But I, my whole thing is I don't understand why people are racing to find a reason not to listen to somebody. I'm always trying to figure out, does this person have even one nugget of information that I can take away? If they do, I'm going to listen to it. And I will often find those people because I'm seeking disconfirming evidence. So I'm trying to map people that are coming at things from very different angles. So that is how I would navigate this. I don't think it is in any way, shape, or form a requirement that somebody be there, but it is for me, bonus points if you've seen it firsthand. Quick break, but don't go anywhere. There's more to come after this short break from our sponsors.

• 28:52Speaker 05

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• 29:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Alright, we're back. Let's get into it.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Alright, in Liberation Day watch, day nine, you'd have thought this thing been going on forever. China has raised-

• 29:33Tom Bilyeu?

  It's crazy, that's only been nine days.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  It's only been nine days.

• 29:34Tom Bilyeu?

  That's bananas.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  China has raised their tariffs on us. We have it at 145 and they just increased their 84% to 125%.

• 29:41Tom Bilyeu?

  If you clap, someone's gonna clap back.

• 29:43Speaker 06

  This move is in response to tariffs by the Trump administration. Trump's universal tariffs on China total 145% right now. The president has paused most of his new tariffs, at least for now, but we'll be watching for potential impacts in the stock market after the opening bell.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Man, it seems like this trade war is not slowing down anytime soon.

• 30:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Definitely not. Once you realize that the war is really between the US and China, this is gonna keep escalating until somebody blinks with an off-ramp that they can take that doesn't look like a blink. So, because both sides now have to look good in front of their citizens. And so, I certainly hope that there is something that allows for this to de-escalate. But I am very much of the camp, something has to change. The status quo leads to a dire future as Thucydides trap all the guarantees that we're gonna end up in a... We're either going to play this whole game out economically and we're able to...

• 30:47Tom Bilyeu?

  We either win or lose decisively. We go, huh, not the game I wanna play anymore. Or it's going to play kinetically. And I'd much rather it play economically than kinetically. But a global depression is pretty bad, so you certainly don't wanna end up in that position.

• 31:06Tom Bilyeu?

  I think that Besen has a really good take on this. I think that China is in a much worse position than we are. We showed the graph that I think really brings us home in the last episode that we did. But the amount that China sends to us for purchase is much larger than the amount that we send to them for purchase. So, Besen had warned about this, I dunno, a week ago or whatever, or maybe it was on Liberation Day. So whatever, by the time people hear this, it'll have been almost two weeks. But it's, you've got the scenario where he is warning people, the-

• 31:48Tom Bilyeu?

  The debtor nation, the nation that is behind in the trade game, when it comes to the tariff war, they usually win. And China is in a more precarious position than we are. Depending on how people read, Trump, given the 90-day reprieve, will determine how you read the following statement. But I think that the US is in a stronger position. I think Trump has the constitution to keep pushing until we're in a dominant position. And I think he will go all the way into a recession. I think he'll pump the brakes before we get to a depression. And so some people think that him backing off was a sign that he thought,

• 32:33Tom Bilyeu?

  he was worried that it was going to go too far, that it was going to spill beyond a recession. I don't think that that's got the highest utility or the highest predictive validity. I think it's something more like, I need to show the world that we're for real, that we will do this. But at the same time, my only goal is to isolate China. So if I got what I needed, which is the 75 purported countries that are lining up to negotiate. I mean, you've even got, this is a headline level. I haven't dove deep on this, but at the headline level, looks like Italy is even willing to go against the EU. Not come as a bloc, come individually. If you start seeing stuff like that, if we can get a big partner like Japan to go, yeah, I'm here for the new world order. I get it. And we're going to remove our tariffs.

• 33:18Tom Bilyeu?

  We're going to remove our non-trade tariff, our non-tariff trade barriers and really get close to parity, then all the world starts going, uh-oh, like, we need to really get in line. And I, it might have been Besen who said this. I think it was. Oh, man, he's really harsh language. I wish I had pulled this clip. Maybe, maybe it is one of the ones we have. But he said, there was a country, I forget which, that was thinking about aligning with China. And he was like, he didn't say suicidal, but that was like, the language was almost that hard. Like, that is not the game you want to play, implying that we would be very punitive if they do that.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Happy. I'm curious to see how this actually plays out because I'm using this story with Shein, popular Chinese retailer that is actually looking to diversify its supply chain. But the Chinese government is now. Warning them that they should consider otherwise. And I remember the Jack Ma story a couple of years ago. He said something about China disappeared, came back six months later. Now he loves the government. There is some other.

• 34:26Tom Bilyeu?

  He's 30 pounds lighter and loves the government. It's like, huh, that's interesting.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  There's other knobs here that China can pull that I don't think America, just because we're not that level of government can do. Do you think China is going to start strong on carbon companies to make sure they win?

• 34:40Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, of course, they're an authoritarian company. This is what they do for the good of the organism. We will do whatever we have to to the individual, including Uighur minorities in concentration camps, reeducation camps. Sorry. So, yeah, that is the strategy. The strategy is we know best, shut up, do what you're told. That's the strategy. This is why I'm so freaked out. Look, I stand in awe of what China has been able to do economically. I'm just not willing to pay the price. I am not willing to give up freedoms, liberty, because I think on a long enough timeline, that ends up being so destructive. You can't play around with that. But that's my is and not.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And jumping, continuing right into it. This is Besson explaining his radical economic plan, how he justifies the reasoning of their recent stock market volatility.

• 35:32Speaker 07

  For a moment too, that one of the things that the terrorists are doing is we are pushing back against other economic systems. So the Chinese have a very different economic system. They have low costs. Some would call it literally slave labor. They subsidize industry with subsidized loans. They have a lot of non-tariff barriers. Your show can't be shown there. So, so we're pushing back against that. And with the tariff income, it can be substantial. And. If we think like a classical model of tariff income would say if there's a 10% tariff,

• 36:17Speaker 07

  then the currency would appreciate about 40% of that, so 4% of it. Then the producer in the other country would eat about 4%. And then the US consumer might have a one-time price adjustment of 2%. So in a 10% tariff, maybe the consumer pays 2% of it. We saw there's a study out recently from a group at MIT that shows with President Trump's first China tariffs, which were approximately 20%, the price level went up 0.7. So to answer your question, if we could put on a 20% tariff

• 37:01Speaker 07

  and have the foreigners pay that and use that money to bring down our government deficit and keep taxes low here, that's a very unique formula.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  What say you about his Trump formula? I know it's not the one that they got from ChatGPT, but it seems like he has a reasoning of why they're doing it and why they're deciding now to even double down against China.

• 37:22Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, listen, I think Besen is one of the best macro minds on the planet. And I certainly buy that historically speaking, you do not, if you raise tariffs to 20%, it does not raise the price of the consumer good by 20%. Because ultimately, these are companies and the company's like, damn, like, I don't want to lose the business. So even if the government is trying to mess with me, I'm going to try to do anything and everything I can. I'm going to try to lower my COGS, cost of goods. I'm going to try to eat some of it so that I can keep my price down. Like I remember at Quest, we would change an ingredient, that ingredient would be more expensive, but we knew there was a psychological barrier for people to make a purchase.

• 38:06Tom Bilyeu?

  So whatever, if they were 3.99, you know that you don't want to be 4.15, you don't want to be 4.20. Like you want to stay at that 3.99. So you're like, okay, God, I'm going to eat this one. So my margins go down a little bit, but you're like, but the velocity of sales that I'm going to Get is going to be so much better by not raising the price that I'm better off just eating that margin. But then there's some times where it's like, oh, man, we've had to change a bunch of ingredients. Other bars have raised their price, so we're going to raise ours. And so this is where it's going to be this whole game of this is why the free market is so effective. There's going to be this game of some people will raise theirs. Like I heard, I heard the headline, headline, the Best Buy was going to use the tariffs as an excuse to raise their prices, or may have already done so. And like, it was something they've been wanting to do for a

• 38:51Tom Bilyeu?

  long time. But this gives them a tremendous cover story. Oh, guys, sorry, it's not, this is Trump. But then other people are going to go, oh, cool. Best Buy just raised their prices. I'm going to eat it and try to eat their lunch by keeping my margins a little bit tighter, but keeping my price down. And so now I'm going to leverage. And so there'll be this whole battle back and forth. And for people who are like, Tom, but this, these guys are using tariffs. This is not the free market. Now, believe what you believe. I want people to make up their own minds. But I look at this, and I say, these are people that understand that we've been going up against unfair pricing effectively since World War II, that we've allowed other countries to put barriers, whether tariffs or otherwise,

• 39:34Tom Bilyeu?

  on us that we didn't put back on them. We're trying to end that. We're trying to just absolutely smash that old world order, even though we were the ones that created it. And we're trying to build a new world order from a trade perspective. And so if that's true, it's like, we weren't in a free market. And so listen to Kevin O'Leary's rant that we played in the last episode about like, there are so many American companies, Canadian companies, that are getting just absolutely ripped off by the Chinese government. Now, if they're wrong about that, let's argue that. But if those things are true, and you've got all these barriers being placed in the way of our commerce, but we don't put any barriers on anybody else,

• 40:17Tom Bilyeu?

  you're already not in a free market. And so I do want to see us get to a free market. I don't want to live in a totally manipulated world forever. So for me, this is about reorganizing the world order from a trade perspective, so that we can hopefully get to a truly free market, so that competition innovation is what wins the day.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. And to make matters worse, Dr. Phil sat down with Donald Trump and laid down how China is buying up farmland mysteriously close to military encampments. Somebody did another map that shows they're close to fiber optic lines.

• 40:54Tom Bilyeu?

  I will just say, hold your tinfoil hat, even if you don't put it on. Because this is one, I have not done a deep dive on this. So Douglas Murray would be so ashamed of me right now. I'm going to talk all about this, but I'm certainly not an expert. So yeah, I don't know whether I should be tinfoil-hatting this, and this is like super conspiracy land, or if this is like, obviously. Anyway, play this and then we'll talk about it.

• 41:19Speaker 08

  And it's where Chinese government has funded buying major farmland. And then superimposed on that are some of our most strategic military bases.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  So they want no farmland in North Dakota, none in Wyoming, they just had to get in Utah?

• 41:41Tom Bilyeu?

  So here's why I say that this might be tinfoil hat territory. Some of the farmland they have is by military bases, but there's a ton of farmland that is not. But the farmland, certainly the farmland areas like in the center of California that I'm familiar with, that's just the best farmland in America. So it's not like, if they were buying it in North Dakota, right next to, you know, like a nuclear launch site or something, then I'd be like, yo, that's super sus, because so little is, so little farming is done in those areas.

• 42:15Tom Bilyeu?

  But no, I mean, I'm looking at the map, again, this is not my area of expertise, but being from California, I can certainly speak to that one. Looking at the Washington one, certainly some of the areas that I see, the one up against the Canadian border, I'm a little more sus about. I don't, my sister used to live up there, and I don't think it's really known for farming, but the one against the Idaho border, that is, that's like their Napa Valley. So it's like, eh, none of that seems crazy to me. So at least the areas that I know it's, there is a case to be made that this is just, we're buying up all the, like, prime farmland, but that's bad enough. Like, I don't need this to be that it's by military sites. Now, if I'm China, oh, this one happens to be by a military site, it just goes up in

• 43:00Tom Bilyeu?

  value. Not that it's the sole reason I'm doing it, but oh, that one's even more valuable, because now we can keep eyes on it. Listen. America, I promise you, is trying to keep eyes on China. So do not be surprised that China is trying to keep eyes on us. The bigger question is, how much foreign investment do you want in things that are critical like farmland? And this is one, man, it's interesting in my own mind, watching how my values shift over time as I begin to upregulate my concern over a kinetic war with China. And I'm like, ooh, interesting. Now I start, you know, COVID really changed things for me where I saw, oh damn, like, we're not manufacturing anything here. And so now I've got somebody who's becoming more and more of a competitor

• 43:46Tom Bilyeu?

  that controls a lot of things that are essential to the functioning of my country. That's just, that's just dumb. Like, as, as a capital allocator, running a company, you look at things like that and you go, oh, strategically, you just can't have that. Like, you might have reasons why it's easier, it's this, that, or the other. But it's like, you can't have that. And so you just have to have these hard lines. And again, people that have heard me talk will have heard this a lot. Being able to be choked out from a manufacturing perspective is a hard pass for me. You can't do it. You can't put yourself in that position. It's too weak. Countries do invade.

• 44:21Tom Bilyeu?

  It hasn't happened in our lifetime on our soil. But throughout history, it's happened all the time.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Man, and in culture news, Minecraft is going crazy right now.

• 44:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, this is nuts. I want to go see the movie. I never go into movie theaters anymore. But seeing some of the footage of kids watching Minecraft and going absolutely berserk at the, what do they call it? The chicken?

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Chicken jockey.

• 44:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Chicken jockey, thank you. Is like, I'm tempted, I won't lie. This reminds me of, this is gonna make me sound so old. This reminds me of Rocky Horror Picture Show.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, it's doing 300 million at the box office. It's killing Snow White.

• 45:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's go.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  The biggest superhero video game movie, I should say, opening of all time. Which brings me to my question, favorite video game movie?

• 45:20Tom Bilyeu?

  There are no video game movies that really jump out to me. And that makes me sad. I was very excited for the um. Master Chief, they did a series, Halo series, and it was horrible.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, there might be something that I've forgotten is based on a video game, but like the Mario Brothers one was okay, the Sonic ones were okay, but there was nothing that I was like, yo, this is dope. Um, so.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  I forgot about Tron. Tron might be it.

• 45:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Tron though, isn't based on an actual video game. Tron was based on a concept of getting sucked into a video game and then they made it into a game. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think that started as a game. Can you look that up? Cause I want to know, I think the movie came first. Uh, if that isn't true, then Tron would a hundred percent be my answer. But I have it in my head.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  The Tron game came out actually after the movie.

• 46:11Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that's what I thought. It's I um, I pitched to a bunch of writers. Basically, a reverse of uh, Tron where. Think of it as a video game breaks open and the characters spill into the real world. And then they come in, they grab a kid and they take him back inside the video game. Uh, and obviously influenced by Tron, but. The vibe right now, um, although I'll be interested to see this is the reverse like um. Isakai, which is what I was just, Tron is like the OG Isakai. People that know anime and manga will know exactly what I'm talking about. But um, getting sucked into a video game has been so hot for like fifteen, twenty years now.

• 46:53Tom Bilyeu?

  That it's going the other way. You get the powers of a video game outside in the real world. So that's what we ended up doing, but. Um, I'm still just beyond fascinated by the idea of living inside of a video game.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Nice. Alright, we gotta go. That's all I got.

• 47:05Tom Bilyeu?

  If you guys aren't already joining us for the lives, you're gonna want to Tuesday, Thursday and Friday at six AM Pacific time. And here are some highlights from today's.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Who do I trust more, parents or the government? I absolutely don't trust the government to educate my kids, but I do trust them to have a baseline that they should have a standard that kids should be in school. Cause there are parents that are ruining kids because they think they don't have to.

• 47:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Yo. At least. Yo, Drew. Well, the good news is Drew, not everybody on these mics is forced to agree because that is crazy to me, literally crazy. That's unhinged. When I look at the history of Israel, what I see, read, read like the actual conversations that the founders of Israel, the nation state were having. They're like, let's go around the world. Let's convince people to move here. We get enough people here. We will have economic and political power. We'll be able to form the state because there'll be so many of us. And it's like, let's just say, and Eric, if you've got beef with this, I was thinking about you this morning, I want you to speak up.

• 48:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Eric is Mexican for everybody wondering why I would say that. If, so we straights, we defeated Mexico in a war to get what is now like California, Arizona, parts of New Mexico.

• 48:26Tom Bilyeu?

  And the generals some, at least one, I mean, very as close to accurate as I can, at least one general, and I know other people were saying this, that the way that we did it, because we were such a superior military force at the time, they were like, this is a stain we will never be able to get off of our hands. We went into a weaker country and just said, bitch, we'll take that. And we took it. Now, if Mexico is running a strategy of let's use the open southern border to bring a bunch of people into America, not assimilate, and we're going to take this back

• 49:04Tom Bilyeu?

  as Israel, because everyone's claim is that, hey, the Israelis, this is their ancestral home. I'm in fucking Los Angeles. No one can claim that Los Angeles, it's fucking got a Mexican name, is going to be able to claim that Los Angeles is not the ancestral home of Mexicans. So it's like, if they were trying to run a deal where they're like, all right, let's just go in and fucking over time, we're gonna outbreed and we're going to import as many people as we can, and we are going to speak Spanish, and we are not at all going to assimilate into American culture, I'd have fucking beef.

• 49:45Tom Bilyeu?

  I would have beef. So how can people not be like, yeah, I get why Palestinians are like, you can fuck right off. Yes, this is your ancestral homeland, but you literally ran a strategy that was really effective to create your own state.

• 50:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so now that backs me into an ethical corner because I have marched on the streets of London, saying in Greek, a chant, Turkish troops out of Cyprus. Now, I did that to impress my wife and my in-laws, because now that I think about it, the honest answer is, kids, you gotta move on. It's been 50 fucking years. Either you're gonna have to use military force, or you just need to move on. And so that's where I'm at with America. It's done. And now you've got to expect Americans to fight back. Israel, Palestine, it's done. They're gonna fight back. And so if you fucking invade, fuck around and find out,

• 50:51Tom Bilyeu?

  and they're gonna come at you hard. Cyprus, if you invade the north of Cyprus, you can really expect Turkey is going to respond. That's just, I don't know what else to do with that. So I think you're being disingenuous if you don't recognize how America came to be America. I think you're disingenuous if you don't understand how Israel came to be Israel. And I think you're disingenuous if you think people are just gonna be like 70 years later, 50 years later, in our case, 250 years later. That's not quite true. Less time for America. That we're not gonna be like, yeah, I'm gonna fight back. So that's the messy reality that we live in. Okay, give me the most hateful response to that

• 51:36Tom Bilyeu?

  from chat. Who's mad? Because there's no way people are like, yeah, word.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Hmm, I just had one too.

• 51:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Not possible.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Uh, October 7th was horrific, but decades of oppression, blockade and displacement have pushed people to the edge. No people can be crushed forever and stay silent.

• 51:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I agree. Here's the thing. Were they? Um, that is the question I do not know enough about to answer. When you talk to Douglas Murray, it is, um, they were given billions of dollars in aid and they built terror tunnels and they themselves said, uh, we're not gonna let the civilians hide here. These are for our fighters. Okay. Well, then you get the result that you get. Um, that is not me saying that's as it should be. That is me saying that is what's going to happen. That, that is the most predictable response ever of all time. Uh, so take Russia. Hey, we've been provoked and so we're gonna come in. Yeah, and they're gonna shoot you in the face for doing so.

• 52:37Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm having a hard time tracking what people think is going to happen. Now, if we want to talk about what ought to happen, what ought to happen,

• 52:50Tom Bilyeu?

  gets complicated very fast, but I will certainly give you my answer. What ought to happen is, uh, the Israelis clearly need a state. They did it in,

• 53:02Tom Bilyeu?

  it's a gangster way, man. Fuck, this is so complex. Uh, if I were doing it, I would do what they did.

• 53:14Tom Bilyeu?

  And so if, let's just say China comes in, Holocaust, uh, all Americans being killed, chase the ends of the earth. Um, I'm gonna find a place that we can go. If every, oh God, this is gonna fractal so fast. Uh, this will be a much more constructive conversation if I am asked very specific questions. So I can not run down an ever fractaling tree. Because you're running into value systems, you're running into beliefs that are so interconnected. So let us take one thing at a time. Go deal with it. Is what it is. It's a pain in the ass. I hear you. Gotta do it.

• 53:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'm, I am surprised.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  That's real.

• 53:57Tom Bilyeu?

  What people are pushing back on is it's a pain in the ass.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 54:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Not, I can't do it. I agree. It is a pain in the ass. I have a wife that took my name and she had to go through changing all of her documentation. All of it. And this was all back in the poverty days. You gotta do it.

• 54:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Is what it is, Drew. Is what it is on that one. I, yeah, on that, I don't, while I totally understand, uh, nobody wants to do things that are a pain in the ass. Uh, empathy at zero.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  So, but it's one of those things and like, is it?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I feel like there, what is the alternative agreement if, cuz I mean, pain in the ass is like the number one and number two.

• 54:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, yeah. So on this, listen, doing your civic duty comes with pain in the ass. So, um, you just have to do it. I, I'm not sure the value system on which this is writing. So if you think democracy doesn't need to be protected, then I'm gonna sound crazy to you. If you think that you can manipulate all of this by, um, bringing people in, uh, giving them the social security number or just, hey, like California, you can't show your ID in California. That, that is so insane, uh, that you're creating avenues for manipulation.

• 55:24Tom Bilyeu?

  And given that you're creating avenues for manipulation, then that's bad, in my opinion. Because now you are fucking with the tenants of a thriving democracy. You've got to be able to know who the people are that you are allowing to vote.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Um, Lynn Lavoy brought up a great point. Um, at least have a way of identifying people exactly like RFK, uh, Jr. played out. Or if one of RFK's platforms was, yes, voter ID should be manual, but we'll give credits to anybody so that way everybody has access to get ID. So for the next.

• 55:56Tom Bilyeu?

  What does that mean, credits?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Like, it's essentially free, easy access. They'll make the process of getting a state issued ID less paperwork. So now everybody's not rushing to the DMV, having to wait five hours.

• 56:06Tom Bilyeu?

  That was somebody's point earlier. Yeah, they said if you're gonna make it mandatory, you need to make it free and accessible.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you're gonna make it mandatory, at least give people a easier way to do it. Um, cuz people are worried about the 90 year old, the 90 year old grandma who leaves her house for church and to vote. Like now she has to go to the DMV and then you just said, yes, pain in the ass, so that. Fuck your grandma and her Saturday afternoons.

• 56:26Tom Bilyeu?

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