#12 Luis Chaparro - Inside Cartel Drug Operations

I sit down with investigative Mexican Cartel / Narcos reporter Luis Chaparro to discuss the DEA's arms deals with the Sinaloa Cartel, and how China is sending chemists to work with drug cartels to produce the most potent fentanyl on the planet to be smuggled into the United States. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shawn-ryan-show/id1492492083 Follow Luis Chaparro: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/luiskuryaki Twitter - https://twitter.com/LuisKuryaki Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website - https://www.shawnryanshow.com Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnryanshow Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shawnryan762 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:27Shawn Ryan?

  So you've seen thousands of

• 1:29Luis Chaparro?

  Thousands, yeah.

• 1:30Shawn Ryan?

  Dead bodies that have been murdered.

• 1:41Luis Chaparro?

  The fentanyl, like the proper powder, like fentanyl and powder, the precursors to cook it come from China or from Germany?

• 1:53Shawn Ryan?

  So you just totally immerse yourself into the narco culture to gain their trust, to experience it so they understand it better?

• 2:02Luis Chaparro?

  Our boss brought someone from China to teach him how to cook this shit.

• 2:18Luis Chaparro?

  I don't know if you heard about the killing of two employees of the US consulate in Tijuana,

• 2:27Shawn Ryan?

  These are all hitmen coming in and out of there.

• 2:29Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:32Luis Chaparro?

  Because I know if I kill that guy, that couple of guys that got into me, there's gonna be more coming.

• 2:43Shawn Ryan?

  So you're saying that the DEA is trading weapons for...

• 2:52Luis Chaparro?

  Kingpins.

• 2:53Shawn Ryan?

  For info.

• 2:59Luis Chaparro?

  When you grab a kingpin, he was just part of that horizontal structure. It was not the boss. You didn't cut the head of the snake.

• 3:18Shawn Ryan?

  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Sean Ryan Show. This is episode 012, and it's all about cartels, the DEA, and fentanyl. Thank you for everyone that showed up to the live conference about the Blackwater episode. It was a great chat we had on Patreon, and for you patrons out there, you are the ones that make it possible to bring these stories to light, so thank you. If you can't support us on Patreon, please, go to the link below, click the iTunes tab, and leave us a review. All we're looking for is one word.

• 4:03Shawn Ryan?

  Let's get on to the cartel stuff.

• 4:07Shawn Ryan?

  In episode 012, we've brought to you an investigative cartel journalist that was kidnapped. He also witnessed an arms deal go down between the DEA and the Sinaloa cartel. He's also embedded with fentanyl chemists in Mexico and discusses with us how the Chinese are sending chemists to Mexico to train the cartels to produce the most potent fentanyl in the world and how it's smuggled into the United States of America.

• 4:46Shawn Ryan?

  Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest, Luis Chaparro.

• 5:02Shawn Ryan?

  Luis Chaparro. Did I say that right?

• 5:06Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, that's perfect.

• 5:07Shawn Ryan?

  Welcome to the Sean Ryan Show.

• 5:09Luis Chaparro?

  Thank you for having me, man. I mean, I told you I've been binge watching your channel and now I'm here. It's like, wow, this is where it happens.

• 5:18Shawn Ryan?

  Second interview in the new studio.

• 5:20Luis Chaparro?

  And this is an amazing studio, man, you have here. I really love it. It's amazing.

• 5:25Shawn Ryan?

  So you're an investigative reporter and you do a lot of stuff with drug trafficking, narcos and immigration.

• 5:32Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Shawn Ryan?

  And we met on a Zoom call. You shot an email in and said you wanted to be on the show. We get a lot of those emails and nine times out of 10, we nix them right off the bat. But you sent a couple of articles. We picked through them and I was like, shit, you know, let's see what this guy's all about. So, and we had just wrapped up an episode with my friend Ed Calderon, which is what drew you into the channel.

• 6:04Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly.

• 6:05Shawn Ryan?

  And I think we were all a little skeptical on, you know, well, what's going to make you different than Ed? Because, you know, Ed, we had just done that. Ed's very knowledgeable on all these topics. And so we jumped on a Zoom call. First words out of your mouth after, I think my wife asked you that, is what's going to make you any different than Ed? And you said, well, We just did a deal between the DEA and the Sonola cartel. And I jumped in immediately and said, "Fuck it, you're on."

• 6:37Luis Chaparro?

  Let's do it.

• 6:38Shawn Ryan?

  Let's set a date. And so here we are. And we're gonna talk about a whole bunch of stuff. We're gonna talk about arms trafficking, your DEA deal. And you did a tour of a fentanyl lab.

• 6:53Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 6:54Shawn Ryan?

  And then we'll get into the documentary that you made and produced. And eventually wound up on Showtime, correct?

• 7:04Luis Chaparro?

  On Showtime, yes.

• 7:04Shawn Ryan?

  So, which I watched this morning. It was, it was a good, good doc.

• 7:09Luis Chaparro?

  Thank you.

• 7:09Shawn Ryan?

  So, but kinda getting a little backstory on you, just a little bit here. How did you kinda get into investigative journalism when it comes to, you know, cartels?

• 7:24Luis Chaparro?

  Well, I, I grew up in Juarez. I was born in Ciudad Juarez, right at the border of Mexico, right across El Paso, Texas. I have a dual citizenship, so growing up at the border, you are immediately immersed into that crazy world of cartels and all that stuff. It's been happening in Mexico forever. So, I remember reading some magazines my dad used to read. My dad is a lawyer, but he used to be a teacher back then and he would like read a lot. And I would read about cartels, I would read about organizations, about drug trafficking. And it was like, it blew my mind that that world existed in the same world I was living in.

• 8:08Luis Chaparro?

  At the same time, that culture is always around you when you're living in a place like Ciudad Juarez. I was in, in a, in a private school, in a primary school. It was like a fancy school where most of the, you know, like businessmen and business owners put their kids. And the rumor that some of the narcos, including Amado Carrillo Fuentes, El Señor de los Cielos.

• 8:36Luis Chaparro?

  He had a couple of kids there on that same school. Um, so I was like, you know, the, the, the whole, my whole life has been around that stuff. So I wanted, I knew when I was in um secondary school, I knew that I wanted to write. I just, I just wanted like to learn, you know, I can't, I couldn't wait to go into college and say like, okay, I'm gonna learn some skills to actually start writing. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna end up writing for the magazines my dad used to read, you know. And I did, one of those magazines is Proceso Magazine and I, and I had two covers, one of them actually talking about the CIA, a CIA operation in Mexico.

• 9:17Luis Chaparro?

  Um, and, and the other one talking about um how the DEA was um not really looking for narcos in Mexico, but looking for, you know, like um gold medals to, to hang on their, their neck. And so when I, I, I went to college, I didn't study journalism, I studied like mass media, which was like a broader thing. I honestly thought like, I just need a paper, you know, cause I was already working at a local newspaper. I went and knocked on the door, trying to get a job as um to deliver the newspaper. I was like, that way I'm gonna be the first one reading the news of my city. And I can maybe find around how journalism works in a newsroom.

• 9:59Luis Chaparro?

  So I went there, they told me like, alright, wait, wait on that chair. And then all of a sudden, the editor of the, of the newspaper came down a stair, so like, you're here for the editor, right? Like, and I'm like, yes, I'm exactly that guy. And that was completely bullshit. Yeah. And um he set me up on a computer, gave me a couple of articles, like a list of news headlines. Um, and a thing we called dummy, which was like the, like, like, like a, like a, like a small version of a newspaper page. Mm-hmm. Um, and told me, that's, that's you today. And I'm like, alright, what the fuck am I gonna do with all of this, you know, I, I had no clue, but I started asking.

• 10:38Luis Chaparro?

  And the friends around started helping me out, like on how to decide on which um article was gonna be on, on, on the front, which picture. I was super, I was like nineteen years old back then, and, and I was like, fuck it, I learned quick. I stayed there, then they noticed that, okay, so you weren't here for that job, right? I'm like, no, but I. I have uh six months now, working here and delivering, so what the hell, you know? And he was like, alright, um, do you have a permit to work in the US? And I'm like, yeah, I'm a US citizen also. He's like, that's perfect, let's move you to the US newsroom. So they brought me into a paso newsroom, and it was like a small newsroom, so

• 11:22Luis Chaparro?

  every time a journalist, a reporter didn't show up, I was covering for that. I was like, me, I'll write it, even if it's, you know, like a crash around the corner, whatever, I'll write it. Uh, so I started like, working my way up there, but always having an ear out and a and a my eyes open to see what's going on in the cartel world and all that stuff. And I remember my first, if you could call it, investigation, which was kinda like shitty, you know? But uh, my first story about that was how some of the cartels in Ciudad Juarez were, were trying to recruit kids on a metro vlog, social network, social media? Which metro vlog was huge back then in Mexico.

• 12:06Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, there was no Facebook or Twitter, it was just like metro vlog.

• 12:10Shawn Ryan?

  What year was that?

• 12:11Luis Chaparro?

  I think it was two thousand seven?

• 12:14Shawn Ryan?

  Two thousand seven?

• 12:15Luis Chaparro?

  Something like that, two thousand seven, two thousand six. I'm thirty-four, I'm about to turn thirty-five.

• 12:20Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 12:21Luis Chaparro?

  So I started, I started like somewhat young, you know, like writing about this stuff. My editor saw my pitch and he was like, this seems like, you know, like a conspiracy theory, unless you bring me some proof. So I brought him a lot of proof, a lot of links between this metro vlog user, he's this and that, and he killed this and that. And he's like, holy shit, you have a story there, man, yeah, let's uh, let's, let's run it. And it was on front page of the, of, of the newspaper. So it was, it was like, I, I liked that feeling, but at the same time, it made me, because I was too young and too naive and too, you know, like too into it. I made so mistakes. I started writing about how corrupt the Mexican police were.

• 13:05Luis Chaparro?

  And how were they dealing information between the military, federales, local police, narcos? Even the DA was involved in that shit. So I started writing about this woman who was a police officer. And she was like trafficking information because she was like good looking. So she was like literally fucking everybody and trafficking information around. And that was, my editors had like, okay, we're gonna run that on the front page. But we're not gonna put your name into it. And I'm like, why not, man? It's my story. I mean, you sure? And it's like, you sure? I obviously didn't understand what that meant. Yeah. So we did. Protection. Exactly. And so we did. And I got kidnapped by the local police in Tijuana.

• 13:50Luis Chaparro?

  You got kidnapped? I got kidnapped by a local, yeah, by local officers. And it was like, it was when I knew that I was into deep shit and it was not a game, you know? I was, I left my girlfriend at her house, was driving back to, I still live with my parents. Driving back to my parents' house in the middle of the night. And I got stopped by first like a traffic police. And I'm like, wow, I'm not even, you know, doing anything, but I guess it's mistaken. So he told me like, hey, you just run that red light on a huge street. And I'm like, I did not, man. I mean, I'm watching the red light. And he's like, no, you did. Can I see your license? I'm like, yeah. Grabbed my license, kinda laughed.

• 14:33Luis Chaparro?

  Said something on the radio like codes. And then get me back my license. He's like, ah, you're good to go. And I'm like, all right, that was weird. Kept driving and right in front of that, like two police pickup trucks just like crossed my way. They started knocking with their guns in my window. It's like, get the fuck down, get the fuck down. I'm like alright, and I thought again, I think they're mistaking, everybody's nervous because it's like the war, the war in Ciudad Juarez, between cartels was just starting. And I'm like, I think they're mistaking, they're nervous because of everything that's going on in the city. So I grabbed my badge like from the newspaper and put it like behind my shirt.

• 15:13Luis Chaparro?

  Um, and it's like, uh, we got, this is like, we got the journalist, yeah, it's him, alright, bye. And then it like started like sending quotes. And I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, dude, you can take everything, like take my car, if you want money, I have some money, I can go to the ATM, get some money and just leave me alone. And they're like, no, no, no, you're just fucked up, you, you know what you did. And, and you fucked up real good this time. And I'm like, I, I have no clue, man, I'm, I'm cool. And, and so they tied my hands and feet, put me in the back of a truck, or the pickup truck. They put their feet like on top of me, you know, in my chest. And they started driving off and someone else took my car. Um, and it was like eleven PM, like in the middle of the night.

• 15:57Luis Chaparro?

  We went to a deserted parking lot and then they stopped there. And then they asked me to run. And I'm like, I'm not gonna run, cause I know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna run, you're gonna shoot me and then you're gonna say it was a confusion, or I had a gun, or you thought I was this and that, or some shit like that. So I was like, I'm not running, man. And I knew for that source, that the local police and the federal police were fighting between each other. Because one was supporting one cartel and the other one was, had, had a deal with another one. So I saw a convoy of federales driving by and I started jumping to see, I, I told them like I was cold, cause it was in the middle of the winter.

• 16:40Luis Chaparro?

  So I started jumping and saying like, um, and they're like, hey, what the fuck are you doing? I'm like, I'm trying to get some heat, man, cause I'm, I'm, I'm freezing. And they're like, they just like kick me and they're like, hey, get on the fucking floor, I know what you're doing. And then the other guy was like, watch out the fox, they, that was the code for the federales, like fox. Watch it with the fox. And then the federales convoy just left, just passed by, and I'm like, fuck. Um, and I remember they, I got on my knees and said like, if you, if you're gonna do this, then just fucking do it. And I was thinking, like, if my colleagues at the newspaper investigate this, they're gonna find out I was executed. And I wasn't, you know, doing something else, cause I was on my knees. And I was like, that's how am I gonna, am I gonna get, on my knees?

• 17:26Luis Chaparro?

  Um, at the end, I, I don't remember like being screaming or yelling, but they say that I was. I was like, stop fucking yelling, stop, and I'm like, I'm not yelling, man, I'm just asking you for a favor. And I was like, you, you're in no position to ask for anything. And, and I'm like, I can bring you money, I can bring you some money, um, and just give me two hours. And then we'll play, um, you know, um, cat and mouse again. He said, no, but one of them was like, what if we, and then he started like talking codes, but I could understand that. What if we actually get some money from, out of him, and then we end up catching him again and killing him? And, uh, and I said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, do that, let's do that, let's do that.

• 18:11Luis Chaparro?

  And then the other, like, they started fighting each other, and then the commanders are like, alright, get up. Go to an ATM, and I'm like, uh, there's your wallet. And I'm like, alright, and I'm like, just give me your word that you're not gonna shoot me in the back while I'm walking. And he's like, you don't, you're in no position to ask me for any, so if you wanna go, go, if you're not, don't go. And I'm like, okay, I'll go. And I started walking and I felt like, shit, this is it, that they're gonna fucking shoot me off the back. Um, I hit a main street, went to an ATM, I had two cards on me, um, cause I, there's. Following you? No, no one was following me, I could just run or, and leave, but they had my address.

• 18:57Luis Chaparro?

  My car plates, all of my documentation. And I was like, of course, they're gonna try and look for me at my house, you know, or my family or something like that. Yeah. So I went, tried to play it cool, um, got twelve thousand pesos, which is nothing, six hundred bucks. That's that was the limit of both my cards that that I could withdraw. Um, got back and so like counted is twelve thousand pesos. And I was like, I'm gonna trust you. Um, get in your car, make sure you're not missing anything. And I'm like, I don't even care. I was like, no, please make sure you're not missing anything. Cause this is not a robbery. This is not what we want to, you know, say that we're robbing you.

• 19:41Luis Chaparro?

  Please look into your car, look into your wallet. You have everything. Yes. All right. You have two hours. We're gonna be looking for you again. So that same night, I crossed the border, stayed in El Paso for a good while, for like nine, nine months, I think.

• 19:58Luis Chaparro?

  Without being able to actually get back into Juarez. That was like traumatic, you know. Yeah. Shit, I I can't, I can't see my city from here, but I can't cross, I can't get back. And I have a source, and I had a source back then, a guy who was with me in um secondary school. And we were like so good friends. And then he went off to the other side of the coin, you know, he went like on the bad side. And he was like, tell me how the whole cartel works and like a lot of stuff. We will talk about a lot of stuff. And uh, he called me on my, we used to have like these next to radios. I don't know if you remember those. Like they were like very popular in Mexico back then. So he rang my radio and I was like, hey, what's up, man?

• 20:43Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, hey, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing, working. And he was like, where are you? And I'm in El Paso. And he was like, I learned that you can't get back to Juarez. What happened? And I'm like, I didn't tell anyone, anyone. Like, I, I talked to the owner of the newsroom of the, of the paper. And I told him like, I don't want anything, like, please. And he was like, no, I need to call the mayor of Ciudad Juarez to give you protection and this and that. And I'm like, please don't, just don't tell anyone, anyone, please. And then he's like, alright, I won't, I won't do anything, I won't say anything. What you're gonna do is you're gonna file a complaint with Human Rights. Just so you have a preceding, you know, like a background. A record.

• 21:28Luis Chaparro?

  A record, yeah, in case something happens. And I'm like, alright, I'll do that. And I did that, uh, but didn't tell anyone, just my family. And, um, and so I was like, hmm, how did the guy, this, this guy found out? And he was like, anyways, I don't know why you don't wanna tell me, we're friends and everything? But, um, be, uh, be looking out in the news, like, you're gonna be surprised. And I'm like, alright, so I kept watching the news for the next days. And one of those days, in the same spot, they closed my road. Uh, that, those police officers were shot, killed, right there. Really? And, uh, so I stopped communication with that guy.

• 22:09Luis Chaparro?

  I was like, dude, that's not, I mean, we're not friends because of that, you know? Like, I'm completely different than that, I'm, I'm older than that. Not in the business of having people killed. Yeah. Actually, in the other side of, of the coin, you know? Trying to make people, um, escape their lives. And, um, so yeah, it was pretty damn hardcore. And, uh, so I had a chance there to get out, to keep writing. And I was like, okay, I need to step up, I need to be more careful. That's why you study some of this shit, you know? That's when you go to college. Um, and that's why you learn.

• 22:47Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, but, but right there, it was just starting the ugliest, um, part of the history of Ciudad Juarez. Where the killings were, it was the most violent city in the world. They killed five friends of mine, like it was like hell. And I was just in the bridge of that, so. So I had to cover all that war, writing for most international organizations about what was going on in Ciudad Juarez. At the same time figuring out how to protect myself, like how to have a protocol, uh, security protocols and other stuff. Other stuff we know now in Mexico, it's just like basic stuff in journalism, you know, like safety protocols and other stuff.

• 23:28Luis Chaparro?

  But back then, we weren't used to that, so I learned how to work in that, in that, you know, in that time.

• 23:37Shawn Ryan?

  Where was your family at, uh, at the time you were kidnapped? Were they in Mexico?

• 23:41Luis Chaparro?

  In Mexico, yeah, my family was in Mexico, but they live in a, in a gated community with, uh, security guards and, you know, like it's like, it's like a, it's like a bubble in, in Ciudad Juarez. Where most of the, the business owners, like the biggest business owners in the city or in the state, they leave there, politicians, all of a kind of people.

• 24:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Luis Chaparro?

  So they're very well protected, so.

• 24:02Shawn Ryan?

  They still have to leave though, right? They have to leave their, their bubble.

• 24:06Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, they, exactly, to go to work, exactly. I told them, I told them like, um, this might be dangerous to you, you might be in danger too. Cause on my ID is that address, you know? They were like, you be safe, we'll be good. And I'm like, alright, that's, I mean, they're like that, they're just weird. And, um, so yeah, my left to El Paso, my sister left to El Paso too, and both of my parents stayed in Juarez.

• 24:35Shawn Ryan?

  They did?

• 24:35Luis Chaparro?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 24:38Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, wasn't expecting that.

• 24:40Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 24:40Shawn Ryan?

  Was not expecting that.

• 24:42Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, man, that's, so basically that's how I started. I mean, I started learning the, the bad way, you know, and, um, but it helped a lot. Um, I've been doing this for 12 years now and, um, so, so yeah, I learned a lot.

• 24:56Shawn Ryan?

  Well, how long was it bef- uh, after you got kidnapped before you started going back?

• 25:02Luis Chaparro?

  Like nine months?

• 25:03Shawn Ryan?

  That's it? Just nine months?

• 25:05Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, cause when, when that guy. Asked me to watch the news and I saw those guys were dead.

• 25:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Luis Chaparro?

  It was like a mixed feeling, you know, because it was like, I, I don't want to be a part of that. I don't want to feel the responsibility for those lives. But at the same time, it's like, I, I feel like I can't go back now. You know, like I, they got rid of those guys, so I can't, I can actually go back to my city. And I started, I didn't like went all the way back. I started like going for a couple of hours, getting back and then going a couple of more hours, then getting back.

• 25:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:41Luis Chaparro?

  And then I was like, all right, um, I feel good to get back to leaving to Alcatraz.

• 25:45Shawn Ryan?

  You didn't, uh, you didn't feel like that was coming from higher to kidnap you and, and eventually kill you? You didn't think that was coming from higher? You think that may have been just those two cops or?

• 25:58Luis Chaparro?

  No, I definitely, I definitely could tell that it was coming from higher, um, but, uh, but not that high. I think it was coming from specifically that girl, so she was like a commander.

• 26:09Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 26:09Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, and because I, I had her phone number, so, and I had access to some of her text messages. So I, um, I think I, I stepped up to deep, you know? I, I, I think that's not what investigative journalism is. I just went to deep because I thought that was journalism, but it wasn't.

• 26:35Shawn Ryan?

  But that didn't stop you because now you're.

• 26:38Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:39Shawn Ryan?

  All kinds of stuff, but, so how long was it after you got kidnapped? Before you started kind of doing these stories again where you were embedded and, and things started getting a little dicey?

• 26:50Luis Chaparro?

  So the whole hell broke loose in Alcatraz. We had like thirteen murders a day reported, plus those unreported. Um, and I started working for like two jobs and college. So I was, I bought a motorcycle, so I can actually made it on time to college. And then to the newsroom in El Paso, and at the same time I had to cover for, um, EFE, which is, it's like an. International news based out of Spain. Um, and they will ask me to go to every single murder scene to report on that. So I will be driving all over town, you know, like. Um, sometimes I will report for El Diario in El Paso remotely.

• 27:33Luis Chaparro?

  I will like write a big like, like a feature story. But be reporting like certain damn murders a day in Cilicuas. And that was very basic, but I learned a lot because I wasn't really investigating. I was just like covering like a red, what we call the red note, la nota roja. Um, they killed five cops here, they killed fifteen kids here, they killed, and it was like that. But you get your brain thinking and connecting the dots. And it's like, oh shit, this murder might be connected to that stuff. And to this, and to that investigation, and you start thinking.

• 28:14Luis Chaparro?

  And I started like coming out with some proper features, you know, on investigation. And, um, and again, I think that that was like too raw of journalism. It wasn't like proper stuff. But it was like the beginning of trying to put together stuff and trying to explain what's going on. But it was hard for me to, at the time, because I was into the, leaving that city, to see the bigger picture. Like this is something else than cartels killing each other, you know? Um, but that was my main question all through, that's been my main question all through these years, man, like. Like still so today, what the hell is going on in Mexico? What is really happening?

• 28:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:56Luis Chaparro?

  How does this world really works? Because I don't believe in the thing that it's a turf war between cartels, you know?

• 29:03Shawn Ryan?

  So they were asking you to go and basically cover every single murder that happened in Juarez? And they were doing, did you just say they were doing thirteen?

• 29:13Luis Chaparro?

  Thirteen to fourteen, yeah.

• 29:14Shawn Ryan?

  Murders a day? How long were you doing that for?

• 29:18Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, three years.

• 29:19Shawn Ryan?

  Three years?

• 29:20Luis Chaparro?

  Three years, yeah.

• 29:21Shawn Ryan?

  So you've seen thousands?

• 29:23Luis Chaparro?

  Thousands, yeah.

• 29:24Shawn Ryan?

  Dead bodies that have been murdered?

• 29:26Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Shawn Ryan?

  So my question is, what?

• 29:30Shawn Ryan?

  Is it all cartel or cartel crime? Or what is, what is the motive, uh, to kill somebody down there when it's, if, if it's just a?

• 29:41Shawn Ryan?

  A regular person who's not involved in the cartel, why are they getting murdered by the cartel?

• 29:46Luis Chaparro?

  There's a, there's a lot of, you know, like the drug business involves a lot of people, not only, you know, dealers or cartel members. It involves lawyers, it involves business owners, it involves journalists. It involves a set of people. So sometimes when you see like, oh shit, they killed this woman. And she used to be a teacher. I'm not saying she was into the business directly, but sometimes they will try to extort her. Because they needed more money to get more weapons. So it was like, okay, she's driving an ice car, let's try to extort her. And they, they will show up, ask for money, she will call the police, she will get killed because of the police was working with the cartel. So

• 30:31Luis Chaparro?

  sometimes it's like that. There's been confusions, like I don't know if you heard about the killing of two employees of the US consulate in Tijuana, a man and his wife with a young girl in the back.

• 30:46Luis Chaparro?

  And I, I had access to recording that the DA was doing on, on those guys. The DA was doing surveillance on that group of the cartel, the Juarez cartel. They were listening to recordings. They were like taping the phones and radios.

• 31:07Luis Chaparro?

  And I got access to that and I, and I learned how they work. And it's shitty, you know, they don't have a system. They would just say like, okay, so the hit is dark haired male in white SUV. That's it. And they have people all over the city. So that guy started receiving a bunch of rings from his people. It's like, okay, so I got black haired male with woman, white SUV, right here. It's like, all right, um, okay, go for it. Five minutes later, it's like, hey, I have white SUV, dark haired man with a child. Uh, oh shit, we have another one. Just go for the two of them.

• 31:49Shawn Ryan?

  So they just kill anybody that fits the description?

• 31:51Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Shawn Ryan?

  They're not, you know, they're just, just a blanket?

• 31:55Luis Chaparro?

  After like four or five rings from different people, so it's like, okay, I have some other info. He has, it's called El Paso, they called it in code word, Parque, so they don't say El Paso. So he has plates from El Parque. So it's like, oh, okay, so it's not my target. This has like Mexican plates right by. And so they narrowed it down to El Paso plates, which is half of the city of Ciudad Juarez, you know? And um, so, or Texas plates. And um, so yeah, I learned that they don't, there's a lot of people innocent.

• 32:33Shawn Ryan?

  That are just killed just to, because they fit a description?

• 32:35Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly.

• 32:36Shawn Ryan?

  What about uh, what about just regular crime, you know, that's not cartel related? How much of that is just?

• 32:43Luis Chaparro?

  Regular crime? It's um, usually regular crime is not using firearms, like they're not using, they're using like, if they use a firearm, it will be like a small firearm, you know, like it's not even gonna be like a nine millimeter.

• 32:57Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 32:58Luis Chaparro?

  Nine is definitely cartel related, um, two twenty-three cartel related. All that stuff, it's cartel related.

• 33:06Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 33:07Luis Chaparro?

  Um, the other guys, they, sometimes they don't even, they don't even kill you because they wanna mug you, you know, because they know they're gonna get some hit. And they know that if they got arrested, they're gonna put some other charges on them, like a lot, you know? Gonna be like organized crime, and this guy had like two kilos of heroin, and this and that and that. And he was just like a regular fucking mugger that was trying to get your phone.

• 33:31Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 33:32Luis Chaparro?

  So yeah, that's, um, now the, the local um, drug business, like the street selling, that's, that's huge. That's a huge business in Juarez since the nineties. Um, and, and that's why you have a bunch of sellers getting killed, getting murdered, getting threats. You know, getting, getting crazy. Just last night, I saw a video of two women uh, being tortured and, and killed in, in a place called Cuauhtémoc, a few hours from Juarez. And everybody's like, their teachers? Why were they murdered? But in, in the video I saw, they were interrogating them. I was like, who do you work for? And they're like, this guy. And what are you doing?

• 34:16Luis Chaparro?

  We're selling. And who are you selling to? I was selling in this spot. So it's like, damn, man. Sometimes like people you don't even think about are into some shit, you know?

• 34:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:29Luis Chaparro?

  Somehow.

• 34:33Shawn Ryan?

  Well, then you started getting, so you started reporting all these murders and then, and then it sounds like that wasn't really enough for you. So you wanted to get more into the investigation investigative type stories. And that can be

• 34:48Shawn Ryan?

  hard to bust into. So I'm kind of curious, you know, how it is that you started developing sources and assets and informants, or whatever you call them in the journalism world, you know. And from what I've found is once, it can be real hard to get in. But once you find one, that opens the door for everybody.

• 35:11Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Shawn Ryan?

  And so I'm just curious to see, you know, how you kind of developed your first asset. Or what do you call them? Do you call them assets?

• 35:20Luis Chaparro?

  Sources.

• 35:20Shawn Ryan?

  Sources. How did you develop your first source?

• 35:25Luis Chaparro?

  Well, my first source was actually this friend I was telling you about. He was, we were in secondary school and we grew up together. We live nearby. We just hang out together. And then he started going on to that world and started writing. I remember one time we were drinking at my place and we're like super smashed. And I told him like, you know that there's gonna be a time where our worlds are gonna meet, not in the best way, right? And he's like, yeah. And he, I remember he gave me, gave me a hug and he's like, you're still gonna be my friend no matter what, man. Like, you're gonna be my friend. Sometimes I guess I'm gonna have to stop talking to you. And sometimes I guess you're gonna step on my toes.

• 36:08Luis Chaparro?

  But I'll keep doing my job and you keep doing yours. So we started like splitting. But see, but even then, he will introduce me to other guy, you know, like he was like, hey, man, come over. And I'm like, alright. I would show up in a house with armed people and, you know, I was like, okay. So this is, this is a place he wants to show me. And then he introduces me to one of the bosses, you know, like, hey, this is that. And this is my cousin, he's journalist. And he's like, hey, making like, making like jokes about me reporting is like, just don't report this shit, okay? And I'm like, no, man, like honestly, I'm here just like a, you know, like.

• 36:47Luis Chaparro?

  Most of those guys, you get them either by drinking, doing drugs, or partying. The party is where you make bonds in that world. If you don't party, you're never gonna get access to any of that shit. You um, and you're gonna look like something else, you know?

• 37:09Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:10Luis Chaparro?

  You're gonna look like, so, why is he doing, what is he doing here? What does he want? You see a DEA? Cause everybody in Mexico thinks like everybody's fucking DEA. And it's like, that's how you do it. So, yeah, the party is what make the bond, so I have my toll, you know? Party.

• 37:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Luis Chaparro?

  Sometimes, um, my wife, uh, she knows what I do. Um, she doesn't really know any details of what I'm doing until my story is published. And even then, she doesn't really know the details or the backstories. Um, but at the beginning, she was like, it's fucking 3 a.m., man, and you're not answering.

• 37:46Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Luis Chaparro?

  But I'm like, you're gonna have to trust me in this one, cause I'm not, you know, doing something else than working and having a blast with these guys.

• 37:56Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Luis Chaparro?

  And sometimes I will get home like, super wasted, high on coke, you know, like, stuff like that. And, and, but that's what will open doors, you know? That's what will open the doors.

• 38:09Shawn Ryan?

  Do you enjoy it? I mean, it's a good time?

• 38:11Luis Chaparro?

  No, yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's like, party is party, you know? Sometimes it's just too much, sometimes it's, it becomes a place where you start having like a bad trip, sort of, you know? Like, when you are drunk and all fussy and confused and, and you're like, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, these people, uh, they, I don't relate to these people at all.

• 38:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Luis Chaparro?

  What they're talking, what they're saying, um, I don't know. I just can't find a common place between us.

• 38:42Shawn Ryan?

  Where are you guys partying? Are you partying at a bar?

• 38:44Luis Chaparro?

  Most, most, most of the time is.

• 38:46Shawn Ryan?

  Houses?

• 38:47Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, most of the time is particular houses, like houses they have, um, sometimes bars, but not really, cause.

• 38:53Shawn Ryan?

  Very private?

• 38:54Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, very private stuff.

• 38:55Shawn Ryan?

  Invite only?

• 38:56Luis Chaparro?

  Mm-hmm, yeah. Sometimes it's just like a small party, sometimes it's just like a, you know, like not even like a, an overnight or whatever. A couple of beers, um, having fun, um, shots or whatever, and then they'll be like, okay, that's it, I'm good. And because they see that you are, um, into that, um, they feel comfortable with you. And it's, it's harder for a Mexican journalist to get access into a Mexican, you know, like criminal organization. Because when they see you are from somewhere else, they will say like, okay, I like this guy because if, I can confirm it's not D A or whatever. Um, it's cool that he's here, that he's interesting in, interested in this, and he's gonna go report whatever.

• 39:39Luis Chaparro?

  Um, but, um, they feel they can trust it, him more. Because he's not, we're gonna be working with a local police or with another cartel, that kind of shit.

• 39:49Shawn Ryan?

  What is the, what is the, uh, what's the motivation to have an investigative journalist at the party with the cartels that? You're saying that, you know, they trust you.

• 40:00Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, why the fuck would a cartel trust an investigative journalist?

• 40:05Luis Chaparro?

  I guess, I guess, because it's not, I have never done something or written about something they don't know I'm gonna write, you know? Um, I'm full disclaimer, if I'm there partying with them, I'm, they're partying with them. Um, learning, um, I'm finding my way through to get access and trust of them. But, um, but I'm not gonna report on that, I'm not gonna say anything I hear in that party, I'm not gonna report on that. I'm not gonna write on that, I'm not gonna say any, anything, because I know that's gonna cost me, you know? And, um, and they know that, I think they can feel that I'm transparent and that I'm like, I'm not here to snitch on you, man.

• 40:47Luis Chaparro?

  I'm, I'm here to actually party with you, to get to know you, to ask some questions for me, for myself, to, to know what's gonna be my next steps. And then, when I want to write a story, when I need something, then I will reach out, full transparency. I will be like, I'm writing a story about this, do you feel comfortable sharing something with me? And they will say like, no at all, man, I cannot give you an interview. And I'm like, I mean. Wonder what circumstances will you feel comfortable giving me an interview? And it's like, no face, no name, no this, no that. And then I'll, I'll work that, you know, it's a negotiation. It's like, hey man, um, okay, I'm not gonna put your name, your face.

• 41:30Luis Chaparro?

  I really need to write that you are part of that organization in this place. Is that doable? And it's like, ah, I don't know, man. So we start like talking about that. And then sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no, not at all. And when they say no, it's a no. And rather lose the story.

• 41:51Shawn Ryan?

  I guess my question is, what is the motivation for them? What do they get out of it? Why would they even want anything in the news at all? Or give any information to you at all?

• 42:01Luis Chaparro?

  It's different between organizations and that's, that's an interesting side of it. The Juarez cartel, super hermetic, like they, they don't share anything. Super hard to break inside the Juarez cartel. Cause they don't feel motivated at all to talk, to say anything. They just don't give a fuck. They, they actually go the other way. They're like, no man.

• 42:24Luis Chaparro?

  You have to have solid sources inside. They have to trust you a lot. And even then, I found that most of them will just like talk broadly on stuff, you know?

• 42:37Luis Chaparro?

  But the Sinaloa cartel, they almost have like this PR office. They really want to be out there.

• 42:43Shawn Ryan?

  They wanna be out.

• 42:44Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:45Shawn Ryan?

  What is it for recruiting or?

• 42:47Luis Chaparro?

  I think it's just to, to make a point. To make a point where like, we're still on top. We're still on top of the game.

• 42:54Shawn Ryan?

  So it's, it's to?

• 42:55Luis Chaparro?

  To flex.

• 42:56Shawn Ryan?

  To spread fear to the other cartels and to the?

• 42:59Luis Chaparro?

  To the public in general.

• 43:00Shawn Ryan?

  General Mexican population.

• 43:02Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, it's just like a flexing move, you know, like we're still, we're still the bad guys here. And whenever I ask for access there, I have a great source in Sinaloa that I really trust and he really trusts me and we're friends. And, and he helps me a lot, like a lot. Every time I ask him for crazy shit, man, like I've asked him for crazy stuff. And it's like, hey man, can you help me out with this? He knows that when his phone rings, I, I think it rolls his eyes like, oh my God, he, he comes again.

• 43:40Luis Chaparro?

  Because I push and I push hard because that's my job, you know? I'm not gonna take just like, no, we can do that. All right, bye, man, sorry. It's like, how can we do this? How can I tell this story, man? How can you help me out? I need this profile specifically. I need to find a person that talks to me and that knows about this. Why, how can we do that? And when it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, okay, what if I show up there? We just have a drink and talk, talk it over. But in person, not over the phone, not over signal or telegram or whatever. Just right there. And then we go from there. And ninety percent of the time it works. Ninety percent of the time it's like, all right, let's go. Let's talk to him, say what he says.

• 44:23Luis Chaparro?

  Um, to be honest, like also some, some of them ask for money. Some, some of them, uh, they try to get some money out of that, out of that.

• 44:31Shawn Ryan?

  How much money?

• 44:32Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, not that much, but it depends. It depends on the access, it depends on the days, it depends on the person.

• 44:38Shawn Ryan?

  Thousands, tens of thousands?

• 44:39Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, no, a hundred, no, thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars. They, they would ask for, for money. Sometimes it's not even for them, but it's like to pay the employees, you know?

• 44:48Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 44:48Luis Chaparro?

  Um, of course, this is like, I'm telling you, this is full disclaimer. I'm, I'm very transparent in what I do. Most of the times I try not to, I try not to, because it's not ethical and it can not be real what they're telling you, if their motivation is money. Um, but sometimes I've, I've worked like that. I've, I've, I've worked like that. When I see, when I see that what I need basically is V roll, you know?

• 45:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:14Luis Chaparro?

  I don't need info, but I need V roll. I need a bunch of imagery of guns or training of this and that and.

• 45:22Shawn Ryan?

  You want video assets for your stories?

• 45:24Luis Chaparro?

  Mm-hmm. And it's, uh, yeah. And I need like, to be real, you know?

• 45:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Luis Chaparro?

  Not, not like fake guns or whatever, like to be real.

• 45:30Shawn Ryan?

  So you, you just totally immerse yourself into the.

• 45:35Shawn Ryan?

  Narco culture to gain their trust to experience it so they understand it better. How long are you when you do immerse yourself, what's what would you say? What's the longest you've immersed yourself down there within? Uh, some of these cartels before coming up and going back home and checking in with the wife and kid and?

• 45:54Luis Chaparro?

  Hmm, not too long. I tried to I tried to have like a tight a safety protocol, you know, so. I don't tell my wife when I'm going or what I'm doing like specifics, but she knows that I constantly ring. And she's my like, it's crazy because I do that protocol with some friends, with some journalists. And with associations of journalists to protect journalists in Mexico, you know, when I'm when I know I'm gonna be into deep. I ring on them and say like, hey, man, can we start like a protocol? Uh, they're like, yeah, so the protocol is like ring me every two hours or half an hour. Um, or if you're gonna be out all day, just in one part of the day before.

• 46:39Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, midnight, you're gonna have to bring me back and say like, okay, I'm back at the hotel. I'm safe. And I'm like, okay, but my safety net is my wife because she can feel. The threat or the danger beforehand, you know, she um. She knows that when I'm not feeling comfortable, I tend to call her a lot, not not text her, not WhatsApp. I told tend to call her a lot, like a lot, call her in the night, in the morning, when I have breakfast. And she feels that she feels like, okay, this guy is not feeling good about what he's doing right now. He's might be in danger.

• 47:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:16Luis Chaparro?

  Um, so she knows that I could be in danger, so she tries to ring more often.

• 47:22Shawn Ryan?

  So you're checking in at least at least once a day?

• 47:25Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never I've never been more than more than one day like. I've had a I have the case like the scenario where it's like, okay, we're gonna go into that place. No cell phones, this and that, but I try also to negotiate my side, you know, like not to go full on. It's like, yeah, whatever you say. It's like, no, man, no, no phones. It's a no go for me.

• 47:48Shawn Ryan?

  Are they are they frisking you? Are they searching you before?

• 47:52Luis Chaparro?

  I just had one time. They trust you that much. Yeah, I just had one time with a guy in Sonora that he searched me. Uh, he grabbed my phone, he applied phone on me. Well, the beginning, his, his employee put like a thing on my eyes. But he thought it was too disrespectful. It was like, no, no, no, dude, that's disrespectful for the journalists here. Just let's do this. Um, grab your hands, put your head, your head down all the, all the road, just look down. That's it. Um, even then I could know where I was because I sort of like, you know, I knew that we crossed

• 48:33Luis Chaparro?

  like a train, uh, track. Uh, I've heard, um, um, um, a checkpoint, a police checkpoint. Uh, I could count the streetlights passing. Then I read dirt road. So I sort of know where I was at the time. Um, I didn't like that. Uh, I didn't really like that at all. Like, I was like, no, man, I'm not gonna do this shit again. Cause we were there and then he had, it was incredible, man, it was. And the, the story is in Netflix, it's a show called Dope. And if you see the Mexico side of that series, I, they didn't do any of the US side, they did all the Mexican side.

• 49:14Luis Chaparro?

  You will see a scene where we arrive at a house and there's this narco and it says like, so this is my stash house. And I was like, alright, um, that small house right there? And it was just like an old man with a teacate, you know, like drinking. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, but there's nothing, man. What the fuck this is? And he's like, nah, I'm not that stupid, man. Hey guys, can you open up the stash? So it was like, they started like putting dirt out with a shovel and then we'll have a, a carpet. And then behind a carpet, you will have a door, like a, like a, um, iron door. We'll open that and there was like a stairs and it was like an underground stash

• 49:55Luis Chaparro?

  house packed with, it was weed and poppy in that, in that, in the stash house. But it was like floor to roof, you know, like full of that stuff. And they had their, all of their accounting and. Inventory, everything. Everything like, and yeah. So it was under the house? Under the house. But you couldn't tell, because it was like a small house in the middle of nowhere, and it was like dirt, just like that. We were like actually stepping into, like, on top of that. So we went out, we went down there, we filmed everything, we filmed an interview and all that stuff, um, and then we went up again, and then he received a call on his, on his radio,

• 50:32Luis Chaparro?

  um, someone telling him that one of the security rings was breached by, um, convoy of, uh, federales. And he's like, "Okay, so my fifth ring got compromised. Let's wait here, give me your ID, I'll keep all of your IDs. If something happens, if they break into the second ring, it's on you guys." And I'm like, "Okay, I mean, it's not gonna be on us, man, we're not even, we don't have cellphones, um, it's, I mean, no, there's no way." And he's like, "I don't care what you say, man, if they breach second ring, it's gonna be on you." And I'm like, "All right."

• 51:17Luis Chaparro?

  So it was like intense, because like, okay, they breached into the fourth ring, and then they reached the third ring. And I was like, "Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck." And they, um, they stopped at a burritos place to eat burritos.

• 51:33Luis Chaparro?

  And they're like, "No, están comiendo burritos ahí en la esquina." And he's like, "All right, that's good for you, all right, there you go, man, let's go."

• 51:41Shawn Ryan?

  Give these guys an extra burrito.

• 51:43Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly.

• 51:45Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, man, it was, it was, it was intense that time.

• 51:48Shawn Ryan?

  So you were really embedded with these guys?

• 51:50Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to get into some of these, uh, arms trafficking deals that, uh, you were a part of and, and were able to report on.

• 52:01Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, sure.

• 52:02Shawn Ryan?

  Cool.

• 52:02Luis Chaparro?

  For sure, man.

• 52:25Shawn Ryan?

  Alright, so we're gonna get into some arms trafficking stuff and um before I do, we had a good conversation at breakfast today about I cannot believe that you don't carry a gun and I couldn't believe it when you told me

• 52:41Shawn Ryan?

  when we were talking earlier today about some of the stuff that you've been doing and that you've been involved with and who you're embedding with, then we get in the studio here and we start recording and tell me you've been kidnapped. And uh, so that blows my mind that you're not carrying in Tich's own, but before we kinda get into the arms trafficking stuff, I'm really curious without the, if I wanted to go down to Mexico how hard would it be for me to illegally acquire some type of a firearm?

• 53:20Luis Chaparro?

  It will definitely be easier than to acquire like a legal arm.

• 53:27Luis Chaparro?

  It's not that hard, man, like Mexico is flooded with guns, like they're all over. It's very easy, it's just you need like to know someone

• 53:38Luis Chaparro?

  and you can get one. Many of the cartels now, what they're doing is they are renting, you know, like firearms. You don't even have to buy it. They will take you into a warehouse and you're a hitman and but you don't own a gun. So you go to that warehouse and say like, hey, how much for this gun, two hours or two days? And it's like, it's gonna be, I don't know, 2,000 pesos, 4,000 pesos, 12,000 pesos.

• 54:06Shawn Ryan?

  You rented?

• 54:07Luis Chaparro?

  You rented.

• 54:07Shawn Ryan?

  You rent the weapon?

• 54:08Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, and then you go, take a hit, get back and deliver back the gun to that same warehouse.

• 54:16Shawn Ryan?

  Have you seen these warehouses?

• 54:17Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, I've seen those warehouses.

• 54:19Shawn Ryan?

  What's the selection like?

• 54:21Luis Chaparro?

  Well, like what do they have?

• 54:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Luis Chaparro?

  All kinds of shit. They have a bunch of nine millimeters, a bunch of shitty revolvers, you know, like these old revolvers. They have AKs, they have what the Mexican military uses, which is the two twenty-three. I don't know what kind of rifle is, but the bullet is a two twenty-three.

• 54:43Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so probably some type of an M4 or AR-15.

• 54:46Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, exactly, something like that, it's like something long.

• 54:50Luis Chaparro?

  They have like that kind of stuff. Those guys who rent those kind of guns, it's like old guns, you know, like they're like sort of sort of like manipulated in some way. They're not like new pristine state guns. It's like ugly, ugly weaponry. And I guess it's like the second life they give to guns they use in like bigger scales of the cartel.

• 55:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Well, when you go in these warehouses, is it all organized? Is everything on the wall? Or is it, hey, look at the trunk of my car and there's just a whole bunch of?

• 55:24Luis Chaparro?

  No, I mean, the warehouse I've been into, they're in Juarez, downtown Juarez. Imagine downtown Juarez, imagine this city, border city of one point four million people leaving there. Not the beautiful, not a beautiful city, kind of a shitty one. Imagine a market in downtown, crowded, a lot of people. You know, like a regular market selling fruits, selling a lot of shit, medicine and a lot of stuff. People screaming, people yelling, cars going into, you know, like small alleys. And in between all that, it's a store, a regular store selling sneakers, counterfeit, you know, like fake Nike sneakers,

• 56:09Luis Chaparro?

  fake whatever, with a man outside saying like, hey, come get some sneakers, twenty bucks for the pair, whatever. But if you arrive there with the right guy, he'll be like, hey man, here's women, alright. And then you just go to the back of that store. And there's a warehouse, which is around like about this big, it's not like a huge warehouse, not small. And you have guns all over, the guns like laying there, you know, like just in the wall, right there. The floor, an ugly table, he can't find sometimes the, you know, like the gun he's looking for. He's like, I know I have an AK, like a new AK around here, so he's like.

• 56:54Shawn Ryan?

  Romaging around.

• 56:56Luis Chaparro?

  And then he finds like the AK, he's like, oh yeah, here it is, can't find the charger though, just looking for the charger. All duct taped, you know, cause it's not properly working or fitting. Yeah, it's one of those places and I'm like, wow, and you're like, so you sell these guns? And it's like, no, we actually rent them and while I was there in the middle of the day, like 2pm. A guy showed in and he's like, hey man, hey, hey, just need two guns, like hang those, whatever you have, but for now, no, I need it now. And it's like, did you talk to whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I talked to him and yeah, alright, it's gonna be this and that. I already paid that guy, let me give him a call, hey man, the guy, this guy here, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, so good, he paid, alright, see you, there you go.

• 57:41Shawn Ryan?

  So these are all hitmen coming in and out of there?

• 57:43Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah. Low level hitmen, they're not like, you know, there's like also some hitmen that are like very well prepared.

• 57:51Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Luis Chaparro?

  Most of them working for law enforcement in Mexico.

• 57:57Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, do these guys, do they have any rituals or traditions they do before they go on a hit? Like when I was, I used to live in Colombia, I used to live in Medellin. And they have a church that they would go and all the assassins would go pray at that specific church before they would go on a hit. And is it like that in Mexico too? Do they get?

• 58:21Luis Chaparro?

  Talking about Virgen de los Hicarios, right? You're talking about that one in Colombia. No, I mean, in Mexico, it depends. Like Sinaloa, it's Jesús Malverde is huge. He's the saint of drug traffickers. He's a legend and they go and sometimes they will have to like on their houses, they will have like a small altar for Jesús Malverde where they drop cigarettes, booze, drugs.

• 58:48Shawn Ryan?

  Offerings.

• 58:49Luis Chaparro?

  Uh huh. There is a huge Jesús Malverde altar in the middle of a road where they go also and offer stuff for him. Many of them, that was kind of new in 2010. We started watching new Santa Muerte churches in Juárez. And I went to all of them, you know, I'm curious like that. So I was like, what the hell? This is a fucking Santa Muerte full on church. So I was interested into what was going on in there. And it's crazy, man. It's doesn't make sense.

• 59:32Luis Chaparro?

  I mean, not disrespectful, but but it's just like too mixed with Catholicism. They will pray some of the parts of the Holy Father, Padre Nuestro, blah, blah, blah. And in the middle of that, they would say something like Santa querida Santa Muerte Niña Blanca, no sé qué, they say that. And I'm like, wow, that's that seems like bullshit, you know? But but many of them believe in the Santa Muerte. And it started developing in 2010 in Juárez because the north of Mexico, that was not a tradition in the north of Mexico. That was a tradition in the center and south of Mexico for centuries. But when the militaries and the federales started arriving in the city, they brought with them some of their culture.

• 1:00:17Luis Chaparro?

  So they started like setting up, you know, churches and all that stuff.

• 1:00:20Shawn Ryan?

  Is that translate to saint of the dead?

• 1:00:23Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, the Santa Muerte is the holy death.

• 1:00:26Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:00:27Luis Chaparro?

  And it's this, um, it's this, um, skeleton dressed as the Holy Mary. You know, like with the thing.

• 1:00:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Luis Chaparro?

  But it's a skeleton. And it's, and it has the, the hose, it's called?

• 1:00:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I, I don't know what it's called. I know what you're saying.

• 1:00:45Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Shawn Ryan?

  The sickle.

• 1:00:46Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:00:47Shawn Ryan?

  Sickle.

• 1:00:48Luis Chaparro?

  Spanish is called, uh, guadaña. Right? Um, so, so yeah, it's, uh, it's interesting, like, so, so they, some of them have those rituals. Um, I can tell that most of them, when they pray or have a Santa Muerte, uh, they are related to law enforcement. Most of the time, not all of them, because I've watched some stash houses where they are like not law enforcement related, sicarios, and they will have a small Santa Muerte on the corner. Um, so, so, and I know that Sinaloa is huge for Jesús Malverde. Um, a US artist, uh, I, I took him to Sinaloa to take some pictures of, of the narcoculture and all that stuff.

• 1:01:32Luis Chaparro?

  And he, uh, is called Charles Kraft, and he makes, um, ceramic art, amazing. And he gave me a bust of Jesús Malverde on cer- in ceramic, like this big. And I have it in my, in my living room, you know, like right there.

• 1:01:47Shawn Ryan?

  What is that?

• 1:01:48Luis Chaparro?

  The, the, the.

• 1:01:50Shawn Ryan?

  What are you saying?

• 1:01:51Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, it's like a, it's like a figure of Jesús Malverde made out of, uh, ceramic. You know, it's a painter like very beautifully. Um, he was, uh, that was like his thanks to me, you know, like it was like, thank you for taking me to Sinaloa to make some crazy ass pictures on the narcoculture, and I'm gonna give you this. So I have it in my, on my living room, on my TV room, you know, it's like right there on top of everything. And, um, and I love it, but sometimes where people shows up at my place and they're like, oh wow, why do you have a Jesús Malverde on your living room? You know? And I'm like, it's a, it's a work of art, it's just the first of 10, you know, there's only 10 in the world, and it has a value, like, it, um, it worth something, but it has also like a value to me, um,

• 1:02:37Luis Chaparro?

  Wow. inside that culture.

• 1:02:39Shawn Ryan?

  That's cool.

• 1:02:40Luis Chaparro?

  It's interesting, yeah.

• 1:02:42Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's get into some of these arms deals.

• 1:02:44Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, so I was, by the time we talked about the, like a Zoom call, remember? Right after that, I traveled to Sinaloa to meet with some arms traffickers. Well, I traveled to Sinaloa and then to Mexicali, because the route is the US, border towns like Calexico, El Paso, Tijuana, well, San Diego, and then south, either Tijuana, Mexicali, or Ciudad Juarez, and then down to Sinaloa, Durango, Sonora.

• 1:03:20Luis Chaparro?

  And so I met with these guys, I explained to them that I wanted to understand. How was the arms still flowing south, still after Fast and Furious? Still after a tight gun control in Mexico? Still after all of that, the border closed?

• 1:03:42Luis Chaparro?

  How you manage to actually still bring up, bring in like huge guns? I showed you some pictures on what they look, and I was like, what the hell is this one? Like, that's a grenade launcher, right?

• 1:03:57Shawn Ryan?

  That is a M203 grenade launcher that fires a 40 millimeter, basically explosive.

• 1:04:03Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, how does these guys get a hold of some shit like that, you know?

• 1:04:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Luis Chaparro?

  So it's like, heavy weaponry they have, and they just showed me the basic, you know? So I went to Sinaloa, they took me to this place, a proper house, where they have some of, you know, like, gold, 9 millimeters, gold AK-47. They used a lot, this stuff called Draco, which is like a short AK. Like, I don't know if you know, I don't know, I mean, they call it Draco down in Mexico.

• 1:04:39Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, here they would just call it an AK.

• 1:04:42Luis Chaparro?

  An AK, right, like it's like a short version of the, of the big AK. They have a bunch of them, some of them like, um, all golden, you know, very flashy stuff. Uh, and I, I, I follow the, the road to the US. So in the US, in places like California or like Texas, they will just buy a gun with a permit, someone like me or like you. And, um, that guy is clean, he has his own guns, but he's selling, um, other guns to, to the cartel, to cartel members. What he needs is just like a report of the guns he sold, so he can show ATF, like,

• 1:05:22Luis Chaparro?

  sell these guns, cause I have a permit to sell guns, uh, out of my own home, out of my own place. Um, what they do with that, I just don't give a fuck, so. I don't know if the ATF actually tracks, uh, those buyers or not, but these guys are like, and I know for a fact that many of those guns are ending up in Mexico.

• 1:05:42Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:05:44Luis Chaparro?

  So they, how they traffic stuff is they disassemble the guns. And they put small parts inside like old refrigerators, a stove, you know, an old living room or whatever, and then they're like, oh, just moving back to Juarez from El Paso and. I'm gonna pay my, my taxes for the, for my stuff to get into Mexico. So they will pay that, go in, and then they have like these workshops where they're putting everything together again. I went to one of those in Mexicali, I think one of the videos I shared is, is one of those places, you will see like a table with a bunch of guns. Those are the guns that are ready to go, they're like assembled back again.

• 1:06:27Luis Chaparro?

  Uh, and then from there, um, they go to Sinaloa, like by plane, by truck. Um, sometimes even by sea when they are in the, in Baja California. They travel through the Mar de Cortez all the way to the Sinaloa coast. And, um, that's, that's where they, where for, for they told me, that's where the. Weaponry is going through like.

• 1:06:51Shawn Ryan?

  Why does it go there?

• 1:06:52Luis Chaparro?

  So I think it's easier to navigate the sea than to actually, uh, you know, like ride.

• 1:06:58Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so they go there and then it's dispersed?

• 1:07:01Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:01Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:02Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They go, they, uh, most of them go to Sinaloa and then from there they, they end up even in Latin, Central America, places like Honduras, Guatemala. Um, they trade that for drugs or for, you know, like when, when they don't have a payment for a big load of coke. They will say like, okay, we'll give you guns, you give us the coke and we'll take it north and sell it. So sometimes it's like a trade. Um, those guns are fucking everywhere, man. It's, uh, it's really, it's really confusing to see that many guns and that easy access in Mexico. A place where it's impossible to get a proper firearm like myself. I, um, I mean, to me to get a hold of a firearm in Mexico.

• 1:07:47Luis Chaparro?

  It will be super hard. I will have to be in a, um, hunting club. Or go through a lot of fucking bureaucracy to actually get approved for a permit to carry. And I wouldn't be able to carry a nine millimeter or a rifle, you know, like will be just like a shitty gun, I guess.

• 1:08:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Luis Chaparro?

  Um, so yeah, it's kinda, it's kinda, it's kinda weird. It's kinda, I mean, in the US I could have a gun.

• 1:08:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Luis Chaparro?

  I don't even know how to use one, so I need to learn.

• 1:08:19Shawn Ryan?

  How would people, I mean, do you think? Do you think? Mexican citizens would want access to be able to protect themselves?

• 1:08:29Luis Chaparro?

  It's been a debate, like, um, recent debate and it's always in, in people's opinion, you know, like it's very divided, it's very split. Um, half of the people say like, we don't need guns. What we need is for corruption to end. Cause without corruption, you will have a state of law and those people getting illegal weapons will stop. Many of those guys believe that the responsibility is in Mexico, half, in the US, the other half. It's like. Your um your freedom to get guns is hurting us, you know. Some of the other guys are like, we should be more like the US, where you can access guns, where you can actually fight back.

• 1:09:14Luis Chaparro?

  You know, where where I can protect my family with a gun of those guys. Cause if they get to you. I'm still not sure where I stand, to be honest, on that that matter, cause I'm very, I'm very um. I'm very in the both worlds, you know, like I I can get one in in El Paso, which is like Texas is the the gun culture is like very open. But at the same time, I know what they do, you know, I know what they mean for Mexico. And I've seen my friends killed by those guns and all that stuff, so. So I'm still, I'm I still don't know where I stand.

• 1:09:52Shawn Ryan?

  They're on the fence.

• 1:09:53Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly, because um. On one side, I said like, oh, yeah, yes, I mean, of course, on what I'm doing, because of what I'm doing especially. Should have one, you know, to protect my family, cause I never know when a motherfucker is gonna come up. And when I'm gonna have to fight back. But at the same time, it's like, do I wanna engage in a shootout? Do I wanna engage into that? Cause I know if I kill that guy or that couple of guys that got into me, there's gonna be more coming. You know, there's gonna be more coming. They're gonna get mad, they're gonna get angrier, they're gonna go like again, so. So I I I don't know, you know, when I think about my family, how to protect them.

• 1:10:32Luis Chaparro?

  I feel that the best way to protect them is sometimes not talk a lot of what I do, a lot of details of what I see, of what I hear of my cellphone. My wife, she she gets sketchy because I'm always like, you know, protecting my cellphone. Of course, she believes that it's it's another another girl.

• 1:10:51Shawn Ryan?

  I can see that where that could uh that could become an issue.

• 1:10:54Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly.

• 1:10:54Shawn Ryan?

  Especially when you're partying with the cartel.

• 1:10:57Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah, and sometimes she believes like the worst for her. You know, she believes like, uh, these motherfuckers talking to another girl.

• 1:11:04Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Luis Chaparro?

  But most of the time, don't get me wrong, most of the time. It's not like that. Most of the time is, um, I don't want her to see some pictures. I don't want her to see some, uh, messages. Um, I don't want her to see who is sending me messages because I don't feel comfortable with her knowing who I'm talking with, you know? Um, the other is living in El Paso. Um, the other is trying to get the heat out when I'm covering like a interesting story, like a hardcore story. Not going straight home and take my kid out in the same car and drive around, you know, like. Just like I'm gonna be away for a couple of days until I feel the heat is out.

• 1:11:50Luis Chaparro?

  I try to reach back to my sources after the story is out and say like, hey, we're good. Are we cool? Is everything good? Do you feel something shady? There's been two times where things haven't been cool at all, where I reach back. And the wife of my source will answer, it's like, they killed him. And I'm like, oh, fuck. And I feel like, you know, like shit. I feel like shit. I feel like it's my responsibility. I feel like his life is in my hands and. And, um, yeah, uh, those times are like, oh my fucking god. Cause at the same time, I'm, I'm feeling responsibility for that. And at the same time, I'm feeling fear for my own life. Like if they got to him, are they mad at me too?

• 1:12:32Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Luis Chaparro?

  Are they angry at me too? So those kind of stuff are the ones that gets you up at night, you know, like that. Like you stay all night thinking like, should I be, uh, doing something or would I be overreacting, you know? I don't wanna have my family all nervous all the time.

• 1:12:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Luis Chaparro?

  But at the same time, I need to protect them. So sometimes I find, yeah.

• 1:12:56Shawn Ryan?

  How did these deals go down? These arms deals that you?

• 1:13:01Shawn Ryan?

  What was your role there? Why did they let you witness?

• 1:13:05Luis Chaparro?

  Because.

• 1:13:06Shawn Ryan?

  The whole deal go down?

• 1:13:07Luis Chaparro?

  Because I wanted that. There's a lot of stuff in the news that just repeats, keeps repeating, you know? Like talking points. And people keeps repeating.

• 1:13:17Luis Chaparro?

  The US, this is the US fault. And the narcos are getting guns. And the narcos are getting just like big weapons. And it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, but what does that mean? Like, how do they get the guns? And who and why? And are cartels inside the US? Are cartels properly buying guns in the US? Or is it just like a regular one trying to make some bucks? And they don't see the harm in selling those guns to a cartel? I wanted to understand that. I wanted to really get close to that. And to understand what was on. And what I found out is like in general, cartels are not

• 1:13:56Luis Chaparro?

  a structure, like, you know, like a vertical structure. They're more like a horizontal structure now. You don't have a big boss. And then, you know, like another sort of like chief. And then like a bunch of sicarios. And then like a bunch of whatever. It's all horizontal now right now. That's why

• 1:14:16Luis Chaparro?

  a lot of the law enforcement don't get, you know? That's why some of their operations don't get don't get the the results they are expecting. When you grab a kingpin, he was just part of that horizontal structure. It was not the boss. You didn't cut the head of the snake. You just got a chunk. And the snake can grow a tail again. So it works like that. And the arms deals are exactly like that. There was ones where the big boss will call his people in the US or whatever. And so like, I need guns. All right, let's buy guns. There you go, boss. Your guns. All right. Just still on a payroll.

• 1:15:01Luis Chaparro?

  Still getting the same money. But right now it's like, I need guns. We're getting out of guns. What do we do? And it's like, okay, I have a plug in the US. I have a casting that he's a US citizen. He can get a gun for us, for several. All right, trade out. And he's like, yeah, but he wants to, he's gonna, he's gonna buy, I don't know, an AK for five hundred bucks, but he's gonna sell it to us, um, triple the, the price for fifteen K, fifteen thousand, hundred, sorry. And, um, I need, someone will say, yes, all right, yeah, just give that, just bring it back. And they will, you know, like, one guy is like, okay, and what's my commission for crossing it over? Okay, you get three hundred bucks.

• 1:15:45Luis Chaparro?

  And then the guy who takes us all the way to Sinaloa, like, how much for transporting this to Sinaloa? Three hundred bucks. All right, there you go. And then, you know, so it's a, it's a horizontal chain. It's not a big structure. So everybody's making money out of that. Everybody's making money out of the, a gun deal, you know? And that's, that's, that's interesting. That's interesting because, because when you say something like the US has responsibility, well, the US just made five hundred bucks on that. Someone else made another five hundred, and someone else made three hundred, and someone else made another three hundred for that gun to reach the hand of the guy who's gonna kill a bunch of people.

• 1:16:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Luis Chaparro?

  So most of my sales staying in Mexico, you know?

• 1:16:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Luis Chaparro?

  And it's not entering like a legal, uh, economy.

• 1:16:32Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm. So, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying is it's not one major deal that's happening. It's onesies and twosies and just thousands and thousands of people that are

• 1:16:45Luis Chaparro?

  Making

• 1:16:46Shawn Ryan?

  that are making

• 1:16:47Luis Chaparro?

  Three hundred, five hundred.

• 1:16:49Shawn Ryan?

  A small amount of, a nominal amount of money, you know, for one, one weapon.

• 1:16:53Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly, yeah. I, um, I talked to a guy in Juarez also. And he's like, I found that if I, if I If I travel to the US, to like Dallas, to a gun show, they will sell guns to me like that. And I will just take them back into Mexico. Before, um, um, Fast and Furious and all that stuff. It was like more, you know, uh, easy to travel back into Mexico.

• 1:17:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Luis Chaparro?

  Without being searched. Uh, so it was like, I found that I would just like travel back to Chihuahua.

• 1:17:27Luis Chaparro?

  It's like nine hours from Juarez to Dallas, nine hours back, and then four hours to Chihuahua. And I would make a thousand bucks for one gun every weekend. So it's like, hmm, I might bring three. And it's three thousand bucks on one weekend. And the next weekend again, the next weekend again, and it's weekend again. And he made a good living out of that, you know, like three thousand bucks in Mexico. Can be like every weekend, can be like something to, to start something, you know?

• 1:17:54Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Shawn Ryan?

  I guess that's another reason why maybe, you know, securing the border a little bit more might be beneficial for both countries.

• 1:18:06Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly. The thing is, uh, the thing is when you secure the border on the Mexican side, like right now, they're changing the Mexican IRS, which is called SAT. Those were the guys in charge of customs. They're so corrupted, man, like they're, they're one of the most corrupted organizations, uh, government organizations in Mexico. So they were like, okay, we're gonna change that to the military. The military is not, is not that corrupt. But it's known for stepping on human rights, you know, so. So it's like, I don't know if that's gonna work. I don't know if that's gonna work, actually. I think corruption in general needs to change because corruption is what is killing us in Mexico, you know? It's not, it's not the US. It's not this and that.

• 1:18:51Luis Chaparro?

  It's not open or closed borders. I think what's killing us is corruption. That's what is keeping us safe on this side of the border. Your corruption levels are, are there, but at higher levels, like higher officials. It's gonna be hard for you to get out of a ticket giving twenty bucks to a traffic police officer. You know, it's not, there's no way you can give him twenty bucks for that guy to leave you alone. Um, but in Mexico, you can, you can get away with that, you know, and that's, that's exactly what is killing us. Corruption is, is inside the whole, it's a system. It's not, corruption is not inside the system. Corruption is a system on itself, you know, so, and that's what is killing us.

• 1:19:34Luis Chaparro?

  Like, you can put all of the military out of the streets, all of the DAs you want, close all the borders you want. But as long as the corruption is still a system operating in Mexico, there's gonna be a way for people to benefit from legal or illegal activities.

• 1:19:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's move into the DEA deal.

• 1:19:58Luis Chaparro?

  Of course, man.

• 1:19:59Shawn Ryan?

  I'm dying to hear about this.

• 1:20:01Luis Chaparro?

  Well, you know, the Sinaloa cartel has been one of the biggest cartels in Mexico for a good while, you know. It started with the Sinaloa Federation, Federación de Sinaloa, where the Juarez cartel leader was the Beltran Leyvas and all the stuff. And even since then, they've been trying to cut deals, or they've been cutting deals with the DEA. They, I guess the DEA is eager to keep arresting kingpins and busting drug loads.

• 1:20:33Luis Chaparro?

  That they break deals with them. But these Mexican narrows, at the same time, they are so naive that they think that they're gonna actually benefit from that. And that they're gonna leave off of that, of that deal. El Vicentillo is the son of El Mayo Zambada, which allegedly is the leader of the Sinaloa cartel right now. Um, after they arrested El Chapo, the only one, there's only one picture of him, and no one knows where the fuck he is, is El Mayo Zambada. So supposedly, he's the boss of the Sinaloa cartel, although...

• 1:21:14Luis Chaparro?

  You and I know they don't work like that anymore. But he's somewhat like a figure, you know, like a respected figure. Uh, he's been hiding forever. There's only one picture of him taken by this Mexican magazine, Proceso, because of the director of that magazine interviewed him a while ago.

• 1:21:34Luis Chaparro?

  El Vicentillo is his son, and he tried in two thousand... They, they don't really say when, but it's between two thousand ten and two thousand twelve. He tried to break a deal with the DEA in Mexico City. He got in touch with the DEA and he's like, alright, this is my proposal. I'm gonna give you guys intel on the other cartels. So you can arrest, like, all of them, but you let me work freely. And the DEA's like, yeah, let's do that, man. Alright, sounds good. Alright, deal, deal, alright, bye bye. They left, and as soon as he left, he got arrested and extradited to the US. So, he's, he's recently free.

• 1:22:18Luis Chaparro?

  He walked out recently because he snitched on his own dad, on El Mayo Zambada. He called him from prison. He, uh, he broke a deal with the DEA, with the US government, to snitch on the whole Sinaloa cartel. That's what, that's what got El Chapo arrested. Like, that guy snitching on the whole organization. He's free. Obviously, the US recommended him not to go back to Mexico. No one know where he is. Of course, I don't think it's a good idea for him to go back to Mexico. But he might be operating again. He might be back at it again, somehow, with his dad, or not. Who knows?

• 1:22:58Luis Chaparro?

  The thing is, I learned that these deals have been going on. Still with the Sinaloa cartel, with some other members. With some other people. And now, the Jalisco Nueva Generación, which is the ruthless cartel growing up, and it's huge. His financial reach is three times more than the Sinaloa cartel. It's huge. Wow. Now they're trying to break a deal with DEA. Now they're meeting DEA agents. Now they are saying like, we can get you El Mayo, we can get you this and that from Sinaloa cartel.

• 1:23:36Luis Chaparro?

  If you let us walk free. And I don't know, I'm not sure, I can't confirm for a fact, but for what they say, de Jalisco, it's working. They say like, the deal is working, man. The deal is ongoing. That's how we're getting shit tons of firearms like we've never seen before. They just recently posted a video on social and it's a full army. They have tanks, they have this kind of like rhinos, like armored vehicles.

• 1:24:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Luis Chaparro?

  They have like rocket launchers, they have RPGs. How like?

• 1:24:17Shawn Ryan?

  So you're saying that the DEA is trading weapons for?

• 1:24:26Luis Chaparro?

  Kingpins.

• 1:24:27Shawn Ryan?

  For info.

• 1:24:28Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah. And not only that, I also know that they've been, well, not specifically DEA, but DEA is in the middle of that. The US government has been giving out green cards to some of them, some of the cartel members. Some of the people who is on the record killing more than twenty, thirty, forty people in Mexico. And they're giving out green cards in the middle of, of a moment where there are a lot of people from Latin America trying to desperately enter the US. And they're stuck in places like Juarez. The US is giving out green cards to narcos in exchange for something so shitty as a statement in court. Where it's all fixed.

• 1:25:13Luis Chaparro?

  That they say like they said something. You know that guy? Yes. Can you point where the narco whatever is? He's that guy. Was he the leader of that organization? He was. He, did he ask you to, you know, traffic drugs? Yeah, he did. Alright. There you have green card for you, your wife, your kids, and some money.

• 1:25:34Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:25:35Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, dude, that's so unfair. That's so, that's a policy that is not only unfair, but it's also unethical, you know, on Mexico.

• 1:25:45Shawn Ryan?

  Have you personally witnessed any of that?

• 1:25:48Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, I personally witnessed that, yes, on a court in El Paso, on one of the allegedly leaders of the Juarez cartel. I personally saw that, I personally spoke with a lawyer, who showed me the deals the US government was breaking on that case, and who these people were, under the organization of Juarez. I even saw the record of statements they did. And at the beginning, they said like, "This is not that guy." And then it's like, "No, this is, yeah, it is that guy." Like, they did the wrong statement, and someone told them like, "That's the wrong statement, you need to say, 'That's the guy.'"

• 1:26:33Luis Chaparro?

  "Okay, sorry." "Yeah, this is the guy." And they're getting green cards.

• 1:26:39Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:26:40Luis Chaparro?

  It's crazy, man, it's crazy how they are operating, honestly, it's not...

• 1:26:45Luis Chaparro?

  It's not news why the US is having a backlash, you know, on a bunch of people from Mexico, Central America, South America, arriving at the border desperate, asking for help. It's backlash of some of those policies, where you protect narcos, you know, for your own good, for your own benefit.

• 1:27:08Luis Chaparro?

  But you just protect a lot of people.

• 1:27:10Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think there may be some things that you might be missing? As far as what the government's doing to these guys, maybe they give them a green card, but maybe they're also

• 1:27:20Shawn Ryan?

  turning them into an informant, you know, keeping them going, still running them as an asset, and continuing to get information out even though they're in the US?

• 1:27:29Luis Chaparro?

  Cool B, man, cool B, because, I mean, there's another story I published in 2013, I think, on the guy who delivered El Chapo, was a doctor. He didn't have any relationship with the cartels. He just happened to live in Ciudad Juarez, and had a neighbor who was the right arm in the state for El Chapo. He got into some kind of fight with them. He threatened his wife and his kids, so he decided to snitch on him on an international bridge.

• 1:28:05Luis Chaparro?

  He arrived on an international bridge, it's like, "Hey, I know a guy who works very high up in the Sinaloa organization." So they were like, yeah, whatever, just get the fuck out, you know? And then he called 911 and he like tried hard, he went to the Mexican um government, military, no one will believe him. And then he said, he arrived to the US consulate in Juarez saying that he had a bomb on him. So they grabbed him, took him in, and it was like, no, I don't have a bomb. So they searched him and like read like his background and whatever. Just like, what the fuck are you doing here? It's like, I have some information that I want to tell you. And so he started like sharing like this guy, the hostess and that.

• 1:28:50Luis Chaparro?

  And he's like the right arm, he's in charge of policy stuff and all that shit. So they arrested that guy. Um, they went for him in a hotel in Juarez when he arrived with his wife, like he just like stepped out of his car. And someone arrived behind him, it's like, hey, let's go, get up. And he's like, oh shit, I don't know if this is cartel or government. So he just went up the car. And I know that because of a source in the Interpol described me the whole operation to get that guy. And um, and he's like, he didn't put any resistance, just got up the van. And then he asked like, who is this? And I was like, it's the US government. He's like, oh my God, yeah, thank God.

• 1:29:29Luis Chaparro?

  So they took him, they took this doctor into the US and gave him protection and other identity, an S visa, which it's a visa for Stitch basically. Uh, but then they told him like, do you have any more information? Uh, you can share with us? And he's like, no, man, I'm not in Thai the cartel. And he's like, okay, if you don't have more information, we're gonna revoke your S visa, because that's only for these purposes. And you're gonna go back to Mexico. So he was like super desperate, that's where he called me. That was where he's like, dude, I'm desperate. Um, I gave this all information to those guys and I don't know what to do. And I wanted to reach out to the media. So I started, started following his story.

• 1:30:14Luis Chaparro?

  And in the middle of that story, he managed to find or to get the phone number of a woman who was with El Chapo at all times. And he's like, this is her phone number. Uh, I'm handing it to the DA. The DA knows where she is, where El Chapo is. And that's how El Chapo got arrested the first time. He got arrested. Um, even then, they still threatened this guy to send him back to Mexico. They're like, okay, what else? And he's like, I just gave you El Chapo, man. Like, this was your operation. It was not a Mexican operation. And he's like, all right, but what else do you have to keep your ass inside, you know? So Hefah felt like he was disposable. Like, he was totally disposable.

• 1:30:59Luis Chaparro?

  Like, I'm an informant, I'm giving out, you know, like, good information. They should just leave me alone. Uh, but they didn't. And I know he's hiding still from the DA and from the narcos inside the US.

• 1:31:14Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:31:14Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:15Shawn Ryan?

  I mean,

• 1:31:18Shawn Ryan?

  you can't blame him.

• 1:31:19Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Shawn Ryan?

  If he's got information, it's gonna save lives.

• 1:31:22Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:23Shawn Ryan?

  You know? And, uh, we just went through, you know, that some Mexicans are pissed off because arms are being tracked, trafficked down there, you know, from the US. Well, now you have a guy who has a ton of information and, you know.

• 1:31:39Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, and I feel-

• 1:31:40Shawn Ryan?

  This information could save a lot of lives.

• 1:31:42Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly. And I feel that my responsibility and all that is to shed light into how stuff really works. Not talking points, not blaming governments.

• 1:31:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Luis Chaparro?

  Not blaming whatever policies.

• 1:31:57Shawn Ryan?

  It is what it is.

• 1:31:58Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, this is how it works.

• 1:31:59Shawn Ryan?

  There's the information.

• 1:31:59Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly. This is how it works.

• 1:32:01Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Luis Chaparro?

  It's not structure, it's not an evil plan from the US, like flood Mexico with fucking guns and they kill each other.

• 1:32:08Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:09Luis Chaparro?

  This is how it's going on. There's people making money out of it, especially during the pandemic, you know?

• 1:32:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. I appreciate that. Everybody has to put a spin on shit these days and

• 1:32:18Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Shawn Ryan?

  You know, you can't just present information anymore. But you're still doing it. That's, that's awesome. But.

• 1:32:28Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah. A lot of stuff going on down there, man. And it's, um, trying to, I'm trying to find the ties that ties us, you know, the US and Mexico. I live at the border. I'm a border kid. So I live, I, I report in Spanish, write in English. I meet people like you. I interview people like you in English and report in Spanish. Back and forth all the time, back and forth all the time. And I received the heat from both sides. I received the heat from Mexico because I write in English. And they say like, "Oh, you fucking sellout." And I received the heat from the US because I report and write in Spanish. It's like, "Oh, you fucking Mexican. You're just like, just talking bullshit about the US and Mexico."

• 1:33:10Luis Chaparro?

  And I received the heat from Trump supporters and from Biden supporters. And I received the heat from Mexican President AMLO supporters and the opposition. I received the heat from everybody because I'm not in the business of putting out my opinion. You know, I'm in the business of showing things as they are. And some things are good about Trump, some things are bad about Trump. Some things, some things are good about Biden, some things are, things are bad about Biden. Um, it's just the way things are, you know, like, cause, cause I'm not trying to put the nice light on any president or in any government, trying to, to tell it how it is and not put my voice in it.

• 1:33:53Luis Chaparro?

  Just say like, "I went there, talked to these people, and this is how it works." You know, that's it.

• 1:34:00Shawn Ryan?

  I appreciate that. I really do.

• 1:34:02Luis Chaparro?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:34:03Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, do you have anything else you want to talk about when it comes to the arms deals?

• 1:34:06Luis Chaparro?

  I think, I think that's, that's pretty much, pretty much it, man.

• 1:34:09Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. Let's take another break and then let's get into some drugs.

• 1:34:13Luis Chaparro?

  Let's do it.

• 1:34:14Shawn Ryan?

  All right.

• 1:34:17Luis Chaparro?

  Let's get into some fentanyl.

• 1:35:19Shawn Ryan?

  Alright, so we kinda went through some of the arms trafficking and some of the deals that you were a part of, not a part of, were able to report on, and, uh, big correction there.

• 1:35:30Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, don't mix, don't put me into the mix, you know?

• 1:35:33Shawn Ryan?

  I have the ATF standing outside the doorway.

• 1:35:35Luis Chaparro?

  It's like, no, no, no, it's like, you're on the record.

• 1:35:39Shawn Ryan?

  But, um, but you also recently went and you're able to report on and actually go into a lab that was making fentanyl. So, where was that? We got some great videos that you gave us that we're gonna put in here, so while we're talking about this, you'll be seeing photographs and videos of the actual lab, but, go ahead and, and let's hear what you got.

• 1:36:08Luis Chaparro?

  So, so was fentanyl started like ramping in the US, you know, like, being like a proper issue? I, I also wanted to know where to, where does it start, you know, like, where, where's it being made? And how? And who's making it? Uh, I reached out to one of my sources in Tijuana, of course, like, this guy who always like comes through, and, um, and I asked him if I could be on, on a fentanyl lab. And he told me it was kinda hard because the fentanyl labs now, they're not set up as before. Before they will, they will like rent or buy a warehouse and establish, uh, ongoing lab,

• 1:36:53Luis Chaparro?

  but because of the busts, the Mexican government has been busting, um, labs, they are making like these small labs on the go in the middle of nowhere. And they work quick overnight. Take everything, destroy the rest and leave. And they're gone. And they're gone. So I told him like, I know it sounds like um like a letter to Santa Claus, but I wanted to ask you if we can actually follow the whole process. Like if you find that someone's gonna be cooking, I want to know, I want to be there for the preparation, like how they set up, you know, for for that. And he's like, you're asking for too much, because it's not like, obviously, they don't

• 1:37:37Luis Chaparro?

  share, they don't announce, like, okay, we're gonna set up a fucking tent in a lot, you know, so it's like, so it's gonna be hard. And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go down to Kulekan and um wait there for your signal, you know. So I did. Kulekan is a beautiful city, man. You you really have to go there. It's a nice city, um nice weather, nice um people, nice places to eat, great seafood. So I spent a couple of days just eating seafood, having beers and walking and swimming at the hotel pool until got the signal from this guy that said like, all right, I'm picking you up at the hotel. And we're driving off

• 1:38:23Luis Chaparro?

  to the outskirts of Kulekan in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, okay, I'll follow follow your lead. Um, he knows me and he knows that I don't go without like a safety protocol. So I just jumped in. Um, and we started like driving, taking off. And I asked him like, can I start recording from now? And um, he said, no, no, no, no, no, because the um, the road might be um, you know, like someone can knows where we are or where we headed. So no road at all. And I'm like, okay. I was with a with a film crew uh for Vice World News. So there was a cameraman, a host.

• 1:39:05Luis Chaparro?

  And I told the cameraman, like, just don't, because he's a white, um, almost reddish, uh, British guy. He doesn't look like he belongs in Mexico. No, super tall. And I was like, just don't dress, uh, dangerously, you know? Just dress. Don't do anything stupid. Exactly. Like, if you dress, uh, I don't know, like hipster-y, then you're good, you know? If you dress like a skateboarder, you're good. Whatever. Just don't dress in a dangerous way. I guess he didn't understand what a dangerous way was, because he was full-on DEA agent, you know? Oh, man.

• 1:39:44Luis Chaparro?

  Khaki cargo pants, like these black tactical boots, sort of like short boots, not the long boots, glasses, you know, like these kind of, like, dark glasses, um, a green, uh, military cap, and a backpack. And I'm like, dude, really? You all did yourself today. You're not even dressed like that on a regular basis, you know? Yeah. And I'm like, alright, so let's go, uh, uh, let's hope that's not gonna be an issue. And he was like, super worried about that. He's like, do you really feel that I just can't jump out and just don't go? And I'm like, no, man, you have to go. You're the camera operator, so let's go. Um, we went there, uh, we arrived into, like, a very small town, like dirt roads and everything.

• 1:40:29Luis Chaparro?

  And from there, we met another guy, another couple of guys, grab a pickup truck, put us in the back, and started, like, driving off in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere. So it was like, really in the middle of the woods. And then from there, we met another guys on motorcycles, and they started driving the motorcycles into the woods. And we started walking until they found a place where they have, um, taken out, like, a lot of, uh, trees. And they started setting up a lab right there. Some of the stuff is in the pictures I, I send you, like, this huge, um, I don't know, like, barrels or something like that. Yeah.

• 1:41:10Luis Chaparro?

  Um, a lot of, um, precursors, a lot of chemicals, a lot of, like, a stove, like a man-made stove. Uh, and, um, like, a small roof, you know, like, um, like a tent. And um, and I obvi- we obviously had masks on, like ma- not like the regular face mask, like proper um, gas masks. Um, those guys didn't have anything, like anything. And there was like an old guy and it's like, okay, he's the cook. Um, or boss brought someone from China to, to teach him how to cook this shit. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And it's like, how many people knows that?

• 1:41:54Luis Chaparro?

  And it's like, just like a couple, just like two guys in the organization can't know how to properly cook. Uh, and I'm like, okay. And then I started like talking to him, he's like very quiet, he didn't really wanna talk, he was like too shy with the camera.

• 1:42:08Shawn Ryan?

  Was the man from China on, in the lab? Or he had come in and taught a, a group of people how to do this?

• 1:42:17Luis Chaparro?

  Apparently he just uh, uh, teach that guy and that guy showed another guy.

• 1:42:24Luis Chaparro?

  And then apparently what goes on is like they had to show or to teach another two guys in case they die. There's another two guys, but just like pairs of two, um, keep learning about how to cook. But it was just once where these Chinese came and showed this guy how to properly cook fentanyl. Um, and the uh, the fentanyl, like the proper um, powder, like fentanyl in powder, the precursors to cook it come from China or from Germany. And they really take care of that shit, like if that was cold. They bring them in in a box with one, one armed guy. And it's always looking at that bag.

• 1:43:05Luis Chaparro?

  And it's always like, okay, that's too much, don't, don't waste it, put it back, lock it in. And that guy's always like taking care of that stuff, like the, the precursors.

• 1:43:16Shawn Ryan?

  Fentanyl is possibly the most addictive drug on the planet.

• 1:43:19Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, exactly. It's an opioid, an opioid, um, and it's, it's, it's, it's a pandemic in the US now because it's a, it's really hurting bad. Like not only there are people, you know, like drug addicts or people in the street, but also moms, dads, working people, regular people. Um, it's killing a lot of people because a lot of drugs are being laced with uh, fentanyl.

• 1:43:45Luis Chaparro?

  And those guys, it's, that, that's what amazed me. While they were cooking, while they were like setting up. I was asking like, how do you move from one business to another? How do you move from cooking heroin to lace it with fentanyl? How do you move from that to pure fentanyl? How do you move from that to meth? You were like dealing with marijuana not long ago. And one of those guys was like telling me like if it was like a proper established business. You know, it's like our clients in the US, they tell us, they started like, they started telling us that their heroin we're giving them wasn't strong enough.

• 1:44:27Luis Chaparro?

  So we had some small drops of fentanyl into that and they liked it. But a year went by and they're like, it's not strong enough. So we added some more and now we're adding like a lot. So like this cold kill, a huge animal, you know? And they're liking it, they're liking it. We're getting good feedback from our users. And like you have like a feedback system on how to make drugs? How? Like, did you, like someone calls you or your boss or whatever? It's like, no, no, no, like the, the street vendors. Um, when they're selling, they're like, eh, you know what? It's not selling good because my client said

• 1:45:11Luis Chaparro?

  that there's not a stronger heroin around the corner with the old guys. So we need to bring this one stronger. So he says, the guy he buys from, and that guy from the guy he buys from, and he goes all the way back to that cooker.

• 1:45:26Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:45:29Luis Chaparro?

  To the cook. And um, so yeah, it's like, I just received the orders, like, put one fentanyl into that heroin. It's not strong enough now. And he does.

• 1:45:39Shawn Ryan?

  I always wondered, I, I thought it was a little counterproductive to.

• 1:45:45Shawn Ryan?

  Make the drug so strong because so many people are dying, but now I understand if it's immediate feedback from the users to the cookers.

• 1:45:53Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly. Yeah, cuz it wouldn't make sense like, that's what I understand that like, okay, so these guys. Yeah, cuz it wouldn't make sense for these guys to be killing their clients in the US, you know?

• 1:46:04Luis Chaparro?

  It wouldn't make sense like for them to be actually like, yeah, just have like super strong so they fucking die or an overdose. They know that and they talk about that. And so like, we don't use this shit. That we don't, we don't use any of this shit is that's fucking strong. Those guys are crazy. Like you guys are cooking it, you guys are crazy.

• 1:46:22Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:22Luis Chaparro?

  And it's like, yeah, but we don't use that. Like those guys are asking for stronger shit every time. More and more. And I'm like, but they're dying. And it's like, I know, but that's what they want. If they wanna kill themselves, that's on them. I'm getting paid to cook. And I'm like, wow, that's, that was revealing, you know, that was like really something like how they actually see the issue. Cuz we think, we tend to think that these guys are like the bad guys, you know, like putting fentanyl and cooking and say like, yeah, they're gonna die in the US. They're actually like, wow, that's strong. I don't know if they should be using this shit, you know?

• 1:47:05Luis Chaparro?

  And they, so they lace a bunch of stuff. Chloride or I don't know, like a bunch of stuff they put into that mix. And then they start, you know, like just mixing it, but you get the fumes and they're like strong fucking fumes. I, I was wearing one of those masks and I mean, it was, it was awful. It was bad.

• 1:47:29Shawn Ryan?

  You could still smell it.

• 1:47:30Luis Chaparro?

  You could still smell it, you could still feel, you know, the, the trees around the area were all dead. Like around that specific area, they were all like.

• 1:47:39Shawn Ryan?

  From the, from the.

• 1:47:40Luis Chaparro?

  From the fumes. Yeah, like speci- in a specific circle, all dead, like all fucking brown dead.

• 1:47:48Shawn Ryan?

  No shit. I thought that was just the environment when I was looking at the videos and the photos.

• 1:47:52Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, you'll see that. Uh, no, there's not like that.

• 1:47:55Shawn Ryan?

  They're, they're all dead.

• 1:47:56Luis Chaparro?

  They're all dead. It's only around that. You walk like a couple of feet from there and it's green again, like green leaves, healthy trees.

• 1:48:05Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:48:06Luis Chaparro?

  But it's that strong. It's that crazy. And that's for a couple of batches only.

• 1:48:10Shawn Ryan?

  How much? How much fentanyl does a couple of batches look like? Is it?

• 1:48:17Luis Chaparro?

  Well, what they were cooking there, they used, the bag of the precursor to make fentanyl was a bag like that, um, filled up to the middle. And they used like a quarter of that, you know, like the rest was a lot of other shit with heroin and I don't know what. And then they make this, this paste. Um, when they cook it, they like, they cook the whole, um, like a broth. And then they leave it to dry. And then when it's dry, it's like a, it's like a paste, like a brownish paste. They told me that the quantity they used, um, into that of the precursors were worth like

• 1:49:01Luis Chaparro?

  two hundred bucks, three hundred bucks, something like that.

• 1:49:05Luis Chaparro?

  And what it was in the bag by, for when, when it was dry, in Mexico, it was like twenty grand. In the U S, it was like a hundred, a hundred and twenty, two hundred grand. So he's like, we have a lot of money here. And I'm like, shit. And I was like, so what if the government comes like right now? So like, we just like burn everything and just grab the gold, you know, just this, this is the worth. The precursor and this shit, let's go, everything else, just like burn it. They took me to another place around, all burnt out. And I was like, did they, yeah, like someone told us like, hey, the military is on its way, so I had to burn everything.

• 1:49:50Luis Chaparro?

  Grab the shit and go. And we were gonna make the double, like twice the batch we did there, but we only managed to do one before they came. So that's where we're cooking this second batch to make it for that. And I'm like, okay, and then from here, what's, what's next? It's like from here, uh, the boss shows up. Apparently the boss is, was the brother of the, of the old cook.

• 1:50:17Luis Chaparro?

  And he's like, yeah, my brother is like very intelligent, man, not like me, I'm only a cook. And I love marijuana, I love to harvest marijuana, have a beautiful, beautiful, um, crop of beautiful weed, man. Good quality, all natural, I wanna show, he was like so proud of his weed crop. But, um, he didn't like working into that, but I was paying the bills, you know? And he felt like he was supporting his brother. He was like, my brother came out with this idea, like, okay, we can cook this shit. I can find the proper, um, a proper supplier in China. Gonna bring it, you're gonna cook it, I'm gonna export it, and we're gonna make shit tons of money. And I was like, is he? And he's like, yeah, he's making shit tons of money.

• 1:51:02Luis Chaparro?

  Like, cause he doesn't take it all the way to the US. What he does is he sells it to someone he doesn't even know. But there's a trans- a transport in the middle. Who just, he just pays that, like, okay.

• 1:51:18Luis Chaparro?

  I'm gonna send this quantity of fentanyl to the US. All right, it's gonna be two thousand grand. And he takes, um, requests from everybody. So he carries a, um, Cessna or a car, it depends. With a lot of, uh, drugs from different NACOS, you know? It's like, have this meth. That's why they were like putting a name on the, on the batch.

• 1:51:43Shawn Ryan?

  Oh shit, so he's delivering to all the cartels?

• 1:51:45Luis Chaparro?

  So the delivery guy, he's like, okay, yeah, I'm taking from Sinaloa to the border.

• 1:51:50Shawn Ryan?

  That's not the cook though, that's the transporter?

• 1:51:53Luis Chaparro?

  He just cooks. And then he gets everything ready, his brother arrives, takes the batch already in bricks to the cook, I mean to the delivery guy. Um, all branded, it's like, okay, it's like six bricks of this shit. Under my name, off you go, there's your money. And he's like, okay, I have a trip to Mexicali, who else is gonna send me shit? Uh, and then another guy jumps in and is like, I have like some meth, I have some coke, I have some weed. There you go.

• 1:52:23Shawn Ryan?

  So these cooks, do they have direct ties to the cartels? Or is it direct tie to the transporter who has direct ties to the cartels?

• 1:52:30Luis Chaparro?

  That's exactly what I was telling you before on the, on the, how the structure works now. This guy represents a cartel, but it's like a brand. You know, it's like, if you open up a shop of Nike, tennis, uh, sneaker shoes here, you're not necessarily part of the Nike corporation, you know? You have a store selling that brand.

• 1:52:56Luis Chaparro?

  So these guys are representing a brand, but not a cartel.

• 1:53:00Shawn Ryan?

  It's a franchise.

• 1:53:01Luis Chaparro?

  It's a franchise. So these guys are like, okay, I get the protection from the cartel. They are allowing me to cook here. They are giving me some assets. Uh, and I am delivering drugs for them, you know, only my, my job is to cook and to send.

• 1:53:18Shawn Ryan?

  So that's an ex- that's a, that's an extremely small operation.

• 1:53:23Luis Chaparro?

  Yes.

• 1:53:23Shawn Ryan?

  So how are they making connections with the Chinese? To come over and teach them how to cook if it's such a small organization.

• 1:53:31Luis Chaparro?

  Through the cartel. That's where the, the big organization comes in, you know, like the big bosses or like the big people.

• 1:53:37Shawn Ryan?

  They facilitate it?

• 1:53:39Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly. Like this guy, the brother of the cook, he knew a guy from the Cina La Cartel higher up. Dealing with money laundering, like higher operations, you know, like um arms trafficking. He was trafficking Chinese into Mexico uh with um fake Mexican IDs. And that was the deal. Like, okay, you give me precursors, I'll bring your, I'll smuggle your people into my country. So they're bringing Chinese with precursors into Mexico. And it's, it's a whole fucking operation, man. So he knew that guy and he's like, hey, man. My brother can cook. I can like, you know, operate that part of the business. And um I'll just be selling you the batches. What do you think?

• 1:54:23Luis Chaparro?

  And he's like, yeah, that's a good idea. All right. Then I bring out a cook from China. Who knows how to cook that shit. It's gonna show you. Uh, and you, and you start and start selling me that, those batches. And he's like, yeah, let's set it up. So they set up that cook, that kitchen.

• 1:54:41Shawn Ryan?

  How many of these little?

• 1:54:44Shawn Ryan?

  If you have an estimation, that'd be great. If not, that's fine too, but yeah, these little labs.

• 1:54:51Luis Chaparro?

  Do, there are.

• 1:54:53Shawn Ryan?

  Thousands, millions?

• 1:54:54Luis Chaparro?

  I, I guess like it only in the outskirts of Culiacan, you can count them by the hundreds every day. Every day.

• 1:55:02Shawn Ryan?

  How many?

• 1:55:03Luis Chaparro?

  By the hundreds.

• 1:55:04Shawn Ryan?

  By the hundreds?

• 1:55:05Luis Chaparro?

  By the hundreds, like a hundred, some like two hundred, three hundred labs working at the same time.

• 1:55:10Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:55:10Luis Chaparro?

  And then disappearing. And then the next day popping up somewhere different and then disappearing and then popping up somewhere different.

• 1:55:16Shawn Ryan?

  They're cooking this every day?

• 1:55:18Luis Chaparro?

  Every single day.

• 1:55:19Shawn Ryan?

  How long does it take them?

• 1:55:21Luis Chaparro?

  Um, we arrived there around eleven in the morning or so. And we left by six ish P M before sunset.

• 1:55:32Luis Chaparro?

  So around like six, seven hours to cook like a batch that worths

• 1:55:38Luis Chaparro?

  two hundred K in the U S. So like that.

• 1:55:42Shawn Ryan?

  So every six hours.

• 1:55:43Luis Chaparro?

  They're like, okay.

• 1:55:45Shawn Ryan?

  They're producing a hundred thousand dollars worth of fentanyl.

• 1:55:50Luis Chaparro?

  And the cook was telling me that the another set of cooks recently died. It's like they die like if they don't, if they don't, because he wasn't talking. He wasn't like, he was like super quiet, but then someone offered him uh coke. And then he started like talking, we actually were like cranking when we were like editing the video. Um, the the vice crew and I was like just laughing like all through the night because he transformed, you know, he was like super quiet, super not, you know, shy. And then he goes like, so then, yeah, you have to use this shit. So it's like, oh, my God. Yeah, he's like, it started like talking and um a lot.

• 1:56:32Luis Chaparro?

  And so he started talking about his brother, about his crops, about all this stuff. And about how most of the cooks don't last more than two months. They keep dying every two months so that he has to teach someone else and then, you know.

• 1:56:45Shawn Ryan?

  Why are they dying?

• 1:56:46Luis Chaparro?

  Because of the fumes.

• 1:56:47Shawn Ryan?

  The poison?

• 1:56:48Luis Chaparro?

  Um, yeah, like they, he's like, that's why I use coke to to to balance the effects of the fentanyl.

• 1:56:56Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 1:56:57Luis Chaparro?

  That doesn't sound.

• 1:56:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:59Luis Chaparro?

  Um, you know, right or all. I think you got it wrong, man. I don't think the cocaine is gonna help out that you're getting more chemicals into your body. And they end up all like cold and, you know, um.

• 1:57:14Luis Chaparro?

  Affected by the fentanyl, they end up, and they drink a lot. It's like you gotta, you gotta keep hydrated, man. That's why we get a bunch of beers and bottles of tequila. They had Don Julio right there. I was like drinking Don Julio and burst. And the fumes and the coke, it's like, wow, man. You really end up a journey like super intoxicated from here.

• 1:57:34Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, two month like life expectancy.

• 1:57:37Luis Chaparro?

  Exactly, yeah. And surrounded by a couple of armed people that are just there, sitting, bored, talking, drinking, you know, like. And when they're over, they're just like escort the shit to where it has to go.

• 1:57:53Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, what kind of drugs are the, are they, they're lacing what kind of drugs with fentanyl? And can you get just straight fentanyl?

• 1:58:01Luis Chaparro?

  Yes, they're doing straight fentanyl, like pills and that kind of shit. And they're lacing heroin and meth with fentanyl.

• 1:58:10Shawn Ryan?

  Not coke?

• 1:58:11Luis Chaparro?

  Not coke, not for what I saw there, not for what I learned there. They, I don't know, I mean, they might be doing, but. When I was there, it was only a batch of heroin, a batch of meth to, to take into the US.

• 1:58:26Luis Chaparro?

  It was, it was an interesting, it was very interesting to learn how to, how does that works, you know, how. Unstructured the organizations are.

• 1:58:38Luis Chaparro?

  Another guy in Mexicali at the border, we met, we followed the, the route. So we met with the guy in charge of the stash house with that drug was gonna be stashed before jumping into the US.

• 1:58:52Shawn Ryan?

  You followed the product?

• 1:58:53Luis Chaparro?

  We followed the product.

• 1:58:54Shawn Ryan?

  To the stash house?

• 1:58:55Luis Chaparro?

  Uh huh, to the stash house. And then, I mean, not, not like.

• 1:58:58Shawn Ryan?

  That specific product, you just followed a product?

• 1:59:01Luis Chaparro?

  No, we, we knew where, where that was gonna be stashed, so we arrived there two days later.

• 1:59:08Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:59:10Luis Chaparro?

  So we went there to that stash house and talked to that guy. So like, okay, so what's the next process of this, of this drug? And he's like, right now, what I'm doing is putting everything into zip locks, uh, vacuum sealed. And then I wash them with detergent, you know, to like this suavitel, it's called in Mexico. To, for, so it smells like roses and the dogs wouldn't smell it. And when he's all washed up, I'm gonna put it in, in a car that is gonna arrive here. And alright, so, and then in the middle of the interview and everything, a, a, a couple, like a man and a woman, like nicely dressed in a nice car, showed up to that fucking stash house.

• 1:59:55Luis Chaparro?

  And they were like, very curious, like, who are these guys with cameras here?

• 2:00:01Luis Chaparro?

  And I was like, oh, it's a, it's an interview, they're reporters from the US. And they were like, can we stay here a little? And they were like, having fun, watching us, taking us pictures. And then they went into our room, and then they left. And I was like, who's this people? It's like, oh, they are the, um, launderer, launderers. Uh, they came here to deliver some stacks of books. We count them with a machine, stash them, and they left. And I'm like, oh wow, that's interesting too. And I'm like, alright, so, and then what you do? So it's like, okay, we're gonna wait, wait for the car. Like, okay, is, is that like, uh, part of the cartel car, someone? It's like, no, no, no, the borders are closed for most Mexican residents.

• 2:00:46Luis Chaparro?

  So we're exclusively using US citizens. Like, the people who is out of work, we started recruit them, recruiting them in the US. Like, hey, you wanna make like five hundred bucks to a thousand, you know, an afternoon? And, um, some, some of them say, yes, alright, okay. So you just show up in Mexicari. And, um, we'll, um, we'll, you know, like, have a load on your car. You're not, we're not gonna tell you where it is. Uh, and then you're gonna deliver that, leave the cars, leave, leave the keys of your car in the parking lot. We're gonna take it, we're gonna get back, and you're good to go. Um, so, that afternoon, a, a woman arrived. Um, woman speaking perfect English, she was from California.

• 2:01:31Luis Chaparro?

  Um, in a Mercedes, uh, old Mercedes Benz. And, um, she was like, yeah, I've been doing this for a good while. And I'm like, why? She's like, I have five kids. Um, my mother's job because of the pandemic, and someone offered me this job, so, yeah. I make two or three trips a day.

• 2:01:52Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:01:53Luis Chaparro?

  And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. And how come they don't, I don't know, they don't stop you at the border? It's just like, cause I, uh, even even the days I don't carry loads, I still cross. Cause my story is I work in Mexico and I live in the US, so.

• 2:02:12Shawn Ryan?

  She's made a cover story.

• 2:02:14Luis Chaparro?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:02:14Shawn Ryan?

  Sticks to it. She's created an entire pattern of life.

• 2:02:18Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, exactly. Um, and so we followed her. They put the stuff in her car. We followed her and she got secondary.

• 2:02:30Shawn Ryan?

  She got what?

• 2:02:30Luis Chaparro?

  Secondary.

• 2:02:31Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 2:02:32Luis Chaparro?

  She was like a secondary inspection, when they send you to these booths. And they put like x-rays and dogs and the CBP officers, the customs are like looking all over your car. They didn't find anything.

• 2:02:47Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing.

• 2:02:47Luis Chaparro?

  Nothing, nothing. That was like, we thought like, oh shit, they got her.

• 2:02:55Luis Chaparro?

  And no, we met her at a motel on the other side. And we're like, what the fuck? You just got secondary? She was like, yeah, honestly, I thought I was like done, but they didn't find anything.

• 2:03:09Luis Chaparro?

  And I'm like, wow, that's fucking crazy. It was like, are you afraid? She's like, yeah, every time is the last time. Every time I do this is the last time I'm gonna do it. And, uh, but I can't stop because it's good money and I don't have any other, uh, sorts of thing. So I don't know if that, that when the pandemic restrictions are lifted, I don't know if she actually got a proper job and got out of that.

• 2:03:34Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:03:35Luis Chaparro?

  Hopefully.

• 2:03:37Shawn Ryan?

  What would happen to you guys if you were at that fentanyl lab and?

• 2:03:43Luis Chaparro?

  I don't think anything, because, um, we're not, we're not carrying anything with us. We're not being part of the operation, the business. We're just filming there. Um, I guess what will happen is they might be interested in talking to us to see if we can stage, say something, locations, names.

• 2:04:04Luis Chaparro?

  But other than that, um, I don't think there's uh, there's anything they could actually do to us. When we had to take a flight from LA, well, I had to take a flight from LA. I ditched all of my clothes into the trash bin because it smells so strong of, I don't know, ugly. It smells like super fucking strong. So I put everything in the trash and I was like, yeah, I'm ready to fly back again home, you know, because this, this stinks. And I'm tired and it was like intense, you know, it was like you have to be on top of your mind all the time, like on top of everything.

• 2:04:44Luis Chaparro?

  On top of our production and also on top of the safety of yourself and everybody else and your, and your crew, you know, because. One guy was from Brazil, the other guy was from Colombia, the other guy was from the UK. Um, when we crossed the border, the officer was like, what is this? Like a fucking UN car?

• 2:05:08Shawn Ryan?

  Oh shit.

• 2:05:08Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:11Luis Chaparro?

  It was like a Mexican and Brazilian, a guy from the UK and a Colombian in the same car. It's like, what the fuck is this?

• 2:05:18Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, that's interesting.

• 2:05:20Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:20Shawn Ryan?

  That's extremely interesting.

• 2:05:21Luis Chaparro?

  It was, it was very interesting. It was a, it was a nice access. It was an interesting access. Um, into how does that um, work, works, you know?

• 2:05:32Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:32Luis Chaparro?

  And, and what it's doing to killing some lives in the US, many lives. And getting some people alive, like that girl, like providing for her family, for her kids.

• 2:05:47Shawn Ryan?

  What is all this gonna be made into?

• 2:05:49Luis Chaparro?

  It's a documentary which is all already in Vice World News. Um, I'll share you the link.

• 2:05:54Shawn Ryan?

  What's it called?

• 2:05:55Luis Chaparro?

  It's called. Can't remember, it's called something like, it's a short documentary called How the US, no, How Mexican Cops Are Using US Citizens to Smoke Drugs. Something like, very newsy, you know, it's like a, it's like a report, you know, not like a proper full-on documentary. It's like a ten, ten, fifteen minutes piece.

• 2:06:14Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:06:15Luis Chaparro?

  For Vice World News.

• 2:06:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'd love to watch it, I'd love to see.

• 2:06:18Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, I'll definitely send you the link, and it's interesting. We embedded with the Mexican police, cause we know that Mexicali is huge for labs. They denied everything. They said like, nope, there is actually no labs here, man. Like, uh, this is one of the cleanest cities in terms of lab operations. We obviously didn't say like, we've just been into one.

• 2:06:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:41Luis Chaparro?

  Um, it's like, oh really, no shit. It's like, yeah, and this is like, he kept talking and talking, and like, so then what are we doing? Cause we discussed like, you were gonna go into a, an operative, and we came back with you. It's like, yeah, we have an operative, um, permanent operatives going through the city to find, you know, stuff. And I was like, okay, so we spent four hours

• 2:07:04Luis Chaparro?

  finding people with a small weed cigarette. And it's like, stop right there, you look suspicious. And they were like, pa, pa, pa, and it was like, okay, so these guys are just putting up a show for the cameras.

• 2:07:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:16Luis Chaparro?

  We're gonna cut all that out, cause this is bullshit, you know.

• 2:07:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:20Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:21Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:07:22Luis Chaparro?

  It was, it was interesting to, to be in that place, yeah.

• 2:07:26Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting.

• 2:07:27Luis Chaparro?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:28Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take another quick break.

• 2:07:29Luis Chaparro?

  Let's do it.

• 2:08:26Shawn Ryan?

  Louise, I kinda wanna wrap this interview up, but you've taken part in quite a few documentaries and I kinda wanna... What are those documentaries? I wanna link them below, so people can kinda see your work and what you've been involved in.

• 2:08:41Luis Chaparro?

  Definitely. So, I've been working for some documentaries in Vice World News. I'll share you the link, so you can put them out there. Mostly like reportings on 10, 15 minute pieces.

• 2:08:55Shawn Ryan?

  Like the mini-docs?

• 2:08:56Luis Chaparro?

  Yeah, like mini-docs on the beats I cover. For CNN, I did like some interesting stuff with a smuggler, with a human smuggler. He allowed us to follow him all through, from his safe house to the border, while... Until he put people together, and why is he doing it, how much is charging. Also, I've been doing some more like long version documentaries, like the one on Showtime. It's called Ready for War, on deported veterans who end up working for cartels in Mexico. And some series like Dope in Netflix, the Mexican part of that series. I've helped produce that.

• 2:09:41Luis Chaparro?

  I'm in the middle of a production for two short documentaries for Vice as well. One on weaponized drones in Mexico, like cartels, sorry, weaponizing drones. And the other one about how the Mexican drug traffickers, specifically the Sinaloa cartel, is using Mexican indigenous people to run drugs across the border in long desert stretches.

• 2:10:08Shawn Ryan?

  Wow. That's a lot of stuff you're involved in.

• 2:10:10Luis Chaparro?

  It's a lot of stuff, yeah.

• 2:10:12Shawn Ryan?

  What would be one that you're probably most... Do you have one that you are most proud of?

• 2:10:18Luis Chaparro?

  Um, I mean, it depends, because every time I I jump into a new project, that's one that I'm most excited about. So right now, the indigenous issue, I'm very, very excited about that one, because it's been a story that I've been hearing and covering for a while now. I just did a story on that, a written story, talking to some of them, talking, reviewing court documents on their arrests, talking to some of the bad guys and some of the good guys, and what's going on with these indigenous people, and why are they running drugs? And how climate change is a big part of it. And so, that becoming a docu, a shared documentary, I'm really excited about that one.

• 2:11:03Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 2:11:06Shawn Ryan?

  How can people find you?

• 2:11:08Luis Chaparro?

  I'm very active in Twitter and on Instagram. In Twitter, you can find me as Luis, L U I S Kuriky, K U R I K Y. I'll share you my handle, so you can post it here, because it might be difficult to remember, Luis Kuriky. On Instagram, I'm the same, Luis Kuriky. I go by that name on my, on most of my social, just, I thought at the beginning, I thought it was safety, wise, sir, you know, like, I thought that if you look for Luis Chaparro on social media, it's gonna be harder to to find me, unless you know my handle, which is Luis Kuriky.

• 2:11:49Luis Chaparro?

  And yeah, I'm, I'm very active on both of them. Most of the time when I'm out, I record short clips of what I'm reporting, of what I'm doing, when I'm not compromising a location. And then I upload stories on my Instagram afterwards, when I'm back into a safe place, home or else, and my startup life, so you can know what I'm working during that, and have some behind the scenes on going to tent and labs, or I'm trafficking stuff. And also, on my Instagram, All of my pictures, they're not like pictures of me or selfies or, you know, food.

• 2:12:31Luis Chaparro?

  It's pictures of my work, pictures of art people, cartels, drug, kink beans. Pictures that I, most of them I take them or I find them through a source like the wedding of El Chapo, you know. So that kind of stuff you can find on my Instagram and on my Twitter, you can find all of my stories. Every time I publish a new story, it's on Twitter.

• 2:12:55Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect. We'll be following you and I just want to let you know, if you ever have anything new, you're always welcome here. We'd love to get you back on and see what you've got going on. And if you ever need anybody down there, even if it's just a sound guy, I can hold a boom pole like nobody's business. So I'd love to get down there and take part in that.

• 2:13:19Luis Chaparro?

  That'll be amazing, man. That'll be, that'll be great. That'll be an honor and I'm very happy to be here because I watch your show, I learn a lot on your show. And so I really wanted to be here and share my small part of the world that I know, you know, which is the Mexican cartels.

• 2:13:38Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I really appreciate it. Thank you. And it's been, it's been a real pleasure to host you. So.

• 2:13:43Luis Chaparro?

  Thank you.

• 2:13:44Shawn Ryan?

  Be safe down there and best of luck to you.

• 2:13:48Luis Chaparro?

  Thank you.

• 2:13:49Shawn Ryan?

  Hopefully we'll see you around.

• 2:13:50Luis Chaparro?

  Thanks a lot and yeah, and hopefully your people will, will learn about this guy I'm going to interview soon and he's going to be around there.

• 2:14:00Shawn Ryan?

  They will. All right. Cheers.

• 2:14:03Luis Chaparro?

  Thank you.

• 2:14:23Speaker 03

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