Back To School Replay: A Husband Like Heracles (Hercules), the Tragedy of Deianeira (Sophocles’ Trachiniae Part 1)

This episode originally aired in March 2022. Heracles is a complicated fellow... Or maybe it's not so complicated. Sophocles' Trachiniae, the Women of Trachis, looks at the life, and tragedy, of Heracles' last mortal wife, Deianeira. AVAILABLE NOW! The Odyssey: a Modern Retelling. https://geni.us/TheOdysseyBook Submit your question for the next Q&A via email http://mythsbaby.com/questions or a voice note https://www.speakpipe.com/LTAMB. Get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby. Enter ourpodcast guest https://www.mythsbaby.com/contact form if you'd like to be on the show as a conversation guest! CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events. Sources: Theoi.com; Sophocles' Women of Trachis/The Trachiniae, translations by Robert Torrance, George Theodoridis, and Peter Meineck. Quote from the Meineck unless otherwise noted in the episode. Thanks to Ash Strain https://twitter.com/ashstrain_?s=21 for researching the play, as always! Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.

• 0:43Liv Albert?

  Hey, it's Hannah Burner from Giggly Squad and the holidays are around the corner, which means I'm officially entering my Hostess Hannah era with Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. You guys know I love cats and fostering, but when I'm hosting, I do not want my house smelling like cats. I want people focusing on my hosting skills. That's why I love Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. It delivers long-lasting odor control and forms compact clumps that make cleanup easy, so that's one less thing I need to worry about when people come over. Be guest-ready with Arm & Hammer Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.

• 1:24Liv Albert?

  People say, and they have been repeating this for ages, that you'll never know for sure whether your life is good or bad until it ends in death. That's the human way.

• 2:03Liv Albert?

  Oh yes, hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby! And I am that host of yours, Liv. Well, well, well, what do we have here? Is it another Greek tragedy? But this time about Heracles, or rather, really about his wife, whose first lines I quoted at the top of this episode. Yes, that's right, today's episode is not only another Greek tragedy, some of my all-time favorite content to work for, but it's also a continuation on the Heracles series we've been covering the last couple of weeks. It's all been leading up to this. This is a big one.

• 2:46Liv Albert?

  But let's not get ahead of ourselves. First, a huge thank you to Ash Strain, my resident Greek tragedy researcher. Ash is wonderful and has provided amazing notes for me, as always.

• 2:58Liv Albert?

  Still, on a much less exciting and upbeat note, there are some things going on in the world that I want to mention or bring your attention to. First, early on Thursday, Texas announced a law that is just horrifying. It's beyond the pale. It's basically intending to get trans people killed and the people who help them imprisoned. It's dystopian, it's fucked, and I hope all my American listeners get loud and angry. And then, well, later on Thursday, or I suppose early Friday for Europe, Russia invaded Ukraine, and I just, I don't want to make it sound like I know anything about what it would be

• 3:41Liv Albert?

  like to have your country invaded in the middle of the night, or what it's like to experience war at all. Many other countries beyond Ukraine are faced with similar horrors, but right now, Ukraine's is the loudest. So to my Ukrainian listeners, know that we're all with you, all rooting for you, and in awe of you as you defend your country. And to my Russian listeners, too, many of us know that this is not all of your war. It's Putin's war, and that man doesn't speak for all Russians.

• 4:16Liv Albert?

  But fortunately, this show is also here as an escape from the world's horrors, kind of. Unfortunately, this was already written and planned before the invasion on Thursday, but it does contain specific references to war and its ancient horrors. So, trigger warning, as it might be particularly tough to stomach for some, I won't be going into details, it isn't graphic, and it isn't about a war itself, just the after effects. So let's try to escape back into the mythological world of Heracles and all his many, many flaws, diving right into this play by Sophocles, because look at me finally covering a play by Sophocles that isn't the Oedipus trilogy, or that I covered so, so, so long ago.

• 5:02Liv Albert?

  Sophocles deserves it. Today's play begins where we left off on Heracles and Deianeira's story last week. As I mentioned then, we return to Heracles and Deianeira many years after they were first married, when Heracles killed Nessos for trying or succeeding to assault Deianeira, many years after Nessos told Deianeira with whispered instructions that his own blood would be a powerful love potion, should she ever need it. Many years since Deianeira tucked that knowledge away, along with some of Nessos's blood, eh, quite possibly mixed with his centaur semen.

• 5:42Liv Albert?

  So many years down the line that, as I told you, Heracles and Deianeira have a son who's nearly grown, Hylus, and they live together in the region of Trachis. In fact, according to some dialogue in the play, it seems they actually have many sons, but it's only Hylus we're concerned with.

• 6:02Liv Albert?

  The Trachiniae, or the Women of Trachis, is one of Sophocles's less famous, though certainly no less brilliant, plays. Poor Sophocles often gets left in the dirt by me, and not because he wasn't brilliant, but just because I fucking love Euripides. Still, the last play I covered was Aeschylus, and now we're moving on to Sophocles? It's only fair that I give these other two playwrights their due. Where would we be without these three surviving tragedians? Thank the gods their work survived, even if the work of so, so, so many others did not.

• 6:37Liv Albert?

  Like many Greek tragedies, this play is named for its chorus, the Trachiniae, these women of Trachis. Trachis was on the mainland of Greece, west of Thermopylae, north of Delphi, so the internet tells me. There, Heracles and his wife Deianeira have settled down to start a family.

• 6:56Liv Albert?

  They had their son, Hylus, not to be confused with Hylas, Heracles's boyfriend in the Argonautica, but also, I mean, is it a coincidence? Someone with better knowledge of ancient Greek philology and etymology might have a good reason one way or the other. I will simply explain that Hylus, the name of his son, is spelled very vaguely differently from Hylas, the name of his boyfriend who died at the hands of nymphs. Still, the point is, Heracles and Deianeira settled down in Trachis after the events with Nessos, the centaur, and the winning of Deianeira's hand in marriage, a phrase I truly loathe and yet is often necessary in these stories.

• 7:36Liv Albert?

  They settled down, raised Hylus, and one would hope had a happy enough marriage.

• 7:57Liv Albert?

  This is episode 157, With a Husband Like Heracles: The Tragedy of Deianeira.

• 8:20Liv Albert?

  The opening lines of this play, spoken by Deianeira, are so beautiful and brilliant that I'm going to share them again. Quote, "People say, and they have been repeating this for ages, that you'll never know for sure whether your life is good or bad until it ends in death. That's the human way." What a way to open the play, to set the scene, the tone, to say, "Hey, this is a fucking tragedy you're about to watch. There are no Aristophanian frogs to be found around here." Deianeira continues her opening monologue by explaining that while this may be true for many, it isn't true for her.

• 9:05Liv Albert?

  She doesn't need her own death to tell her whether she's had a good or bad life, she knows already. She recounts why, from a very early age, she knew her life was going to be difficult. It's powerful, and very much a statement on the lives of women, then, though I can't say for sure Sophocles really intended it to be. She tells the audience about her experience being sought after by the river god Achelus. We get her own voice explaining how it went, how she felt about it in the moment. I wanted to make a point last week of not using Deianeira's words when discussing it, because so much of this play is about rehashing it through her voice, and that's so much more powerful, once you already know the basics of the events.

• 9:52Liv Albert?

  She says that, quote, "I was solicited by a river called Achelus. He came in three forms to ask for me from my father. He kept showing up as a bull, but at other times a snake, or he'd wear a man's belly and a bull's face. His beard was a dark tangle spurting out torrents of fresh water."

• 10:16Liv Albert?

  Imagine there's a man trying to marry you. You don't get much of a say in the matter. It's down to your father's decision and whether this man can convince him. Except this man is sometimes a bull, sometimes a snake, or sometimes a man bull, in the creepiest of ways. And you just have to deal.

• 10:36Liv Albert?

  So Deianeira says, she prayed for death rather than marriage to Achelaus. But then, Heracles arrived. Heracles arrived, he was famous and exciting, and he defeated this river. Deianeira would marry him instead. She says that she doesn't know how he defeated the river, she was too afraid to watch it happen. Only that, quote, "I was terror-stricken. I was afraid that my beauty would someday be a source of pain."

• 11:07Liv Albert?

  But of course Deianeira isn't telling the audience that after she married Heracles, everything got better. No, she's explaining how she's always known that her life is, in a word, shit.

• 11:19Liv Albert?

  She explains that from the moment she married Heracles, things have been tough. She was afraid, always for him and of him. There was constant anxiety and pain that would overtake her one night and be gone the next, only to return once more. She lived in a constant state of worry, whether this is because she loves him and worries for him, or is concerned for what he's doing when he's not with her, which we'll get to. We just learn how she feels, and she doesn't feel good.

• 11:52Liv Albert?

  Heracles is gone, he's not there with her in Trachis, where they've been living as guests of others because of Heracles' murder of Iphitus. She's living there, caught in a sort of lifelong limbo. Meanwhile, she has no idea where her husband is.

• 12:11Liv Albert?

  He left, for some reason or another, and he hasn't come back. He hasn't come back, and she has no idea where he is. So she just lives like that, in between everything, wondering if her husband is alive or dead, whether he's coming home to her or has found someone else. She just has no idea what's going on. Quote, "We have been here in Trachis, uprooted, staying as guests of a foreigner, while he is living, no one knows where. All I know is the pain that he hit me with when he went away."

• 13:08Liv Albert?

  Deianeira finishes her opening monologue. It's sad and beautiful, and frankly, just nice to have a woman open a play with a whole monologue about herself. If also about how depressed she is to have her husband away, possibly being sleazy.

• 13:25Liv Albert?

  Deianeira finishes, and her servant, an unnamed enslaved woman who's there with her, comments on how sad Deianeira is that Heracles is away, and that he's been away for so long that they don't know when he's coming back or what he's been doing all the time. She suggests Deianeira send one of their sons, the obvious choice being Hylus, to find his father. And luck of lucks, it just happens that Hylus is approaching them at that moment. What a coincidence. Or fine, it's a play, so of course it would go that way. Still, Hylus is right there the moment this idea is presented to Deianeira, and so she asks him to go in

• 14:07Liv Albert?

  search of his father, Heracles. In fact, she's a bit of a bitch about it, basically saying that, "Oh, can you believe it? This woman is enslaved, but she had a great idea. It's amazing that enslaved people can think like free people." Like, oof, Deianeira. I wanna like you, so let's not keep up with things like that. Deianeira tells Hylus to go looking for his father, but Hylus already knows where he is. Provided, he says, that the stories he's heard are true.

• 14:37Liv Albert?

  Which is where I break off to explain the first issue in an ongoing Heraklean issue of messy timelines. Now, as I explained, perhaps too often, last week and the week before, Heracles' story is confusing, to say the least, and fragmentary. This is one of our best and most complete sources for much of it, and it's somewhat contradictory to others. Only though in terms of like when certain things took place, or rather, the issue is more so that the stories are independent, and it's only in this play that we have to rationalize any kind of timeframe for Heracles' actions. The timeline itself will become clear, but for now, it's just, well, it's messy, because as always, we're dealing

• 15:18Liv Albert?

  with oral traditions and regional traditions surrounding the most important and widespread hero of the Greek mythological world. But for now, as far as Deianeira knows, so far, his service to Amphale, in penance for killing Iphitus, that has yet to happen. The killing of Iphitus has happened, that's why they're living in Trachis.

• 15:45Liv Albert?

  Hylus goes on to tell his mother that not only does he know where his father, Heracles, has been all of this time, but in fact, he's heard that the hero of heroes has been off in Lydia, living in service to a woman. Now, Hylus doesn't actually name Amphale here, or even say that she's the queen. She's just a Lydian woman. But we know better. Hylus goes on, telling his mother that while that's where Heracles was, he's gotten away from Amphale and is no longer living in or enslaved by her. "Well, where the fuck is he now?" is a paraphrase of Deianeira's response. She is unsurprisingly both frustrated and

• 16:29Liv Albert?

  shocked by this news that her son not only knows where his father is and has been all this time, but if Heracles isn't enslaved by Amphale, then why in the actual fuck is he not back home with his family, who are themselves still living under the shadow of the man he murdered?

• 16:49Liv Albert?

  "Oh, well, about that," Hylus doesn't say, but we wish he did. No, he only adds that Heracles is no longer in Lydia. Actually, he's just over in Euboea, pretty damn close by, where he's actually gone to war with the king Eurytus.

• 17:06Liv Albert?

  What? Deianeira is in shock. She doesn't want to believe her son and this news about her husband. I mean, why? Why is he warring with Eurytus? Why is he so close by and isn't home? Still, the main thing that stands out to Deianeira when she hears this news from her son: Heracles had told her of Ekalia, where this king Eurytus is. Not only had he mentioned the place to her, but when he left, all that time ago, he left her with a prophecy from the oracle. Surprise, surprise, it's a vague one. Deianeira tells Hylus that his father left her with this prophecy relating to Ekalia,

• 17:51Liv Albert?

  and that it said, quote, "It would mean either the total end of his life, or else, once he'd taken this prize, from then on, he'd be able to live the rest of his life in happiness."

• 18:08Liv Albert?

  Vague, indeed. With this news, Hylus is certain that he will go in search of his father. He adds that he's not particularly worried because Heracles has always had good luck, but now that he knows that there is such a specific, if contradictory, prophecy relating to Heracles in Ekalia, he will go immediately. So with that, Hylus leaves for Ekalia, and the chorus of Women of Trachis begin to sing. They sing of Heracles, asking Helios, the sun god who sees all, to provide news of

• 18:46Liv Albert?

  the hero. They sing of Deianeira, sick with sadness and anxiety, her constant and overpowering worry for Heracles' safety.

• 19:00Liv Albert?

  Deianeira is, from the very beginning, a tragic figure. We get the clear sense that she is not happy, she hasn't been happy, and it's only going to get worse from here. Having a husband like Heracles doesn't seem ideal, but for Deianeira, it also feels like she's got maybe some undiagnosed slash literally impossible to be diagnosed because she's ancient and mythological, anxiety disorder. And maybe some depression, too. Poor woman has some real unaddressed mental health issues. Not to say that she doesn't have things to worry about, but it feels like it goes beyond just worries and concerns. I feel for her.

• 19:44Liv Albert?

  Still, this chorus tries to reassure Dionera and tell her that she can't just worry forever. Zeus will care for Heracles. All will be well in the end. They tell her, quote, "The bright stars do not linger over mortals in the night. Both poverty and wealth shall fade away. They move in turn, joy and loss, arriving at the same door."

• 20:23Liv Albert?

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• 21:04Liv Albert?

  that's the thing, they have really great basics. Like, they have really great things that you can wear with so many other things. Just the options are endless. And as the weather gets colder, like all the sweaters in my closet, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe, from warm, responsibly sourced down jackets, and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves, to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry that adds the perfect finishing touch. And of course, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And if we haven't learned anything in the last 10 years, isn't it just getting rid of the middlemen, you know, making things more affordable?

• 21:49Liv Albert?

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• 22:15Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Hannah Burner from Giggly Squad, and the holidays are around the corner, which means I'm officially entering my Hostess Hannah era with Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. You guys know I love cats and fostering, but when I'm hosting, I do not want my house smelling like cats. I want people focusing on my hosting skills. That's why I love Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. It delivers long-lasting odor control and forms compact clumps that make cleanup easy, so that's one less thing I need to worry about when people come over. Be guest-ready with Arm & Hammer Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.

• 23:03Liv Albert?

  Why do I ever think that I can tell plays briefly? I did this lead-up to Heracles episodes in everything. Anyway, we're 150 lines into this play. Let's keep going. Once the chorus of women has tried to reassure Deianeira to alleviate her concerns over her and her husband's fates, she explains to them why exactly she finds this time so much more worrying. And she provides some insights into life as a mythological woman, or a woman in general. It's so real. She says, quote, "A young and tender thing grows in its own

• 23:46Liv Albert?

  space, a space as tender as itself, where neither heat of sun nor rain nor wind beats it down. There it rises joyfully, its life untroubled, up to a point. Once a girl is called a wife, she gets her share of worry in the night. She is fearful for her man or for her children. Then she'd understand. And with her own life in mind, she'd appreciate the weight of trouble that I bear."

• 24:18Liv Albert?

  Heracles had left Deianeira before, to complete labors, to do his varied Heraklion tasks. And he'd never troubled himself much with it. He'd never worried her, or was worried himself. He always knew he'd slither out of trouble, solve his problems one way or another, and find his way back to Deianeira before long. But this time? This time, Deianeira says, when he left, he left her with these prophecies, as well as details on how she would live without him. How much of his property she should have?

• 24:59Liv Albert?

  What land? And then he told her very specifically, quote, "He specified a time. Wait three months and one year of his life after he left this land. Then he was due to die at precisely that time, unless he had slipped past the end of the term, in which case, he'd live the rest of his life in comfort."

• 25:26Liv Albert?

  So vague, so confusing. She adds that Heracles knows so much, because long ago, he'd spoken with the oracle at Dodona, who had told him all he needed to know. "This is why I'm so much more worried," Deianeira says. "This is why I can't let it go." She finishes by saying, quote, "That's why I keep leaping up from a pleasant sleep. I am tormented by fears. Will I have to stay on after the best man of all has died? Be left behind?"

• 26:04Liv Albert?

  I am quoting too often and have barely gotten into this play, but it's so good. Deianeira is so great. I love Greek tragedy.

• 26:15Liv Albert?

  The chorus shushes Deianeira at that moment. There's a man approaching them, a messenger, and he's bringing good news. The man reaches Deianeira and the chorus, and he tells them that Heracles is alive, that he's won his battle, and he's bringing his winnings home with him right now. In fact, the messenger, and many others so far in this play, refer to Heracles as Alkmenes' son, rather than Zeus's. Ash noted this in their notes, and I think it's interesting, too. I think often the heroes are referred to in this way. I don't know if it's to remind people of their mortality, referring to the mortal mothers

• 26:56Liv Albert?

  rather than the godfathers. But still, it's nice. Good for Alkmenes. Deianeira hears this news, and she wants to be happy, but she isn't ready. "Where did you hear this from?" she asks the messenger. "Was it a foreigner who told you?" That, of course, would mean it's less convincing news. The messenger says he heard it from a herald, Heracles' herald, and that he's headed straight for Trachis to tell Deianeira what he'd heard. Still, Deianeira isn't ready. "Well, if it's good news, then where is this herald you heard it from? Where is Heracles?" she asks. "Why aren't they here bringing this good news?"

• 27:37Liv Albert?

  The messenger explains that a herald is on his way. He's been waylaid by groups of excited people, all asking for news, asking him to tell the tale of Heracles' battle, his victory. He's on his way, the messenger promises Deianeira.

• 27:53Liv Albert?

  And this. This is what it finally takes to convince her to become excited, that Heracles could really be coming home. Deianeira calls to the chorus in celebration, and they, in turn, call to everyone around them, all to celebrate the return of Heracles. It's big news. It's a big day. He's finally, finally coming home after all that time. It's good news. Ha, ha, ha, not really.

• 28:45Liv Albert?

  Finally, the herald himself arrives. He arrives while the chorus is singing their happy song, their praise, their almost bacchic with their happiness, driven to dance.

• 29:01Liv Albert?

  But while they dance and sing with excitement, the herald arrives, and he doesn't arrive alone. With him are captives, women, a number of them. But one stands out. The herald of Heracles brings with him a particular captive from this war with Eurytus. He brings Ioli, Eurytus's daughter.

• 29:28Liv Albert?

  If Deianeira clocks this, she doesn't show it. She wants to speak with the herald to get news of Heracles. When speaking to him, Deianeira seems less certain about this news of her husband, though the celebrations have already begun. She asks the herald for this news, and once again, chides the lateness for such good news. She asks him bluntly, "Is Heracles coming home alive?" The herald, a man named Lycaus, tells her that when he last saw Heracles, he was alive and well, strong, with no wounds or diseases. "Where was this?" Deianeira counters. "On

• 30:10Liv Albert?

  Euboea," he tells her, "on a cape, where he's worshiping to Zeus in thanks for his success in this war." "Is he doing this by choice? Has he vowed to stay behind in this way, or was he required by an oracle?" she asks, basically getting to, "Why is he not back yet?"

• 30:30Liv Albert?

  "He made a vow to do it, that he would worship in this way once he'd taken Eurytus's land, taken captive these women that I've brought with me," the herald tells her. "Yes, these women," Deianeira notes now. "Who are they?" She adds, quote, "I pity them, or have their troubles stolen my wits." "These captives, these women, were handpicked by Heracles," Lycaus tells her, "hand-selected for enslavement when he'd sacked their city, the horrors of ancient war."

• 31:04Liv Albert?

  Deianeira isn't concerned with these women, though. She's still more concerned with where her husband is, and where he has been for all this time. She asks this of Lycaus. "Is this where he's been all this time? With all these delays? He's been, he's spent the whole time besieging this city of Ekalia?"

• 31:29Liv Albert?

  Lycaus responds, "No."

• 31:48Liv Albert?

  Ah, nerds. Thank you, thank you, thank you. As always, with these tragedies, I'm working off a number of different translations. It's how I get around not knowing ancient Greek, though that is a travesty. For today's episode, in fact, Ash referred to two different translations in their notes, and I've referred to another. I'm not going to name them all here, but you can find a list of the different translations we referred to in the episode's description. All quotes are from the Minnec translation that was so generously recommended by past guests and Sophocles lover Amy Pistone, who, spoilies, will absolutely be joining me to talk Sophocles and all things Trachiniae very soon. Well, you all know how much I love Greek tragedies. They're such a fascinating way

• 32:33Liv Albert?

  of looking at myths, because of course they are themselves based on myths, but often we don't have a ton of sourcing on the myth they're based on and have to frame our own knowledge of the myth based on this tragedy. But tragedies are in themselves fiction, just like movies, even if they're based on true stories, are fictionalized. It's tough to say how much of this applies to this particular play, but in general, it's an interesting thing to think about when it comes to tragedies broadly. It's like basing all of our knowledge of, say, history on like one historical fiction adaptation movie. It's just wild.

• 33:09Liv Albert?

  Like Medea, you know Euripides added the bit about her killing her kids? Like, that's not in the myths that we know of, separate from Euripides. What a change! And Oedipus, like what we have on him primarily comes from Sophocles's plays, but we know for a fact that his story was a huge and major myth of the time. It was a subject of a major epic poem, but that's lost. But what isn't then lost is a much later Roman period epic based on it? Ugh! Anyway, I'm rambling, as always, because I just start thinking about this stuff, and then my brain goes wild because there's so much to think about.

• 33:43Liv Albert?

  Phew. Back next week with more of Sophocles's Trachiniae, the tragedy of Deianeira, and Heracles too, I guess. Let's Talk About Myths, Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Smith runs a YouTube account where episodes are uploaded and captions are being added for greater accessibility. Michaela also handles research, wonder, promotional images, and so, so much more, including general moral support, and gods know, that's huge. The podcast is hosted and monetized by the fine folk at Acast.

• 34:17Liv Albert?

  And again, get loud, people of Texas, and America generally, and stay safe and strong, people of Ukraine. I wanted to address this at least a little bit because it's going on in the world, and I do try to address, especially the thing in Texas. It's just fucked up, and, you know, trans people need our help and support, and that's something I can do by spreading the word. Obviously, when it comes to Ukraine, gods, everybody already knows what's going on because it's horrifying and it's in the news everywhere, and I just... Thank you all. Let's all do our part to support Ukraine and the Ukrainian

• 34:58Liv Albert?

  people in whatever way that we can. As well as every country dealing with something similar, war in any way, this one is the loudest, but these issues worldwide should be our concern. I am Liv, and I love this shit.

• 36:23Speaker 02

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• 36:41Speaker 03

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• 36:55Speaker 02

  And now, for a limited time, when you preorder Game of Thieves through Burning Pages Bookstore, you'll get a signed book plate and a free art print of one of Jenny's favorite spicy scenes from across the series.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Get this amazing artwork only from Burning Pages at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves. Don't wait. Order your copy from Burning Pages today at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves.